What's your opinion about Macwarez?!

**roger** · February 21st, 2002, 10:29 AM

Not copyrighted music, no. I download free mp3's for up and coming DJs out of interest. All my MP3's are from CDs that I have bought.

Roger.

**vic** · February 21st, 2002, 10:59 AM

"Why did Napster die? Because too many people were pirating music. It's tolerated when you make a copy from a friend who loans you a CD."

that;s not true napster died because it was shut down by law

P.S.

anybody that doesnt pirate software does not need that software. people that piate software need the software but don't have the money to use it. so what's the big deal? when that student that can't pay for photosho get's his/her dream career, they will have enough money to buy adobe photoshop. THat is the only reason why software companies tolerate pyracy, to ensure thy will have future customers.

**Valrus** · February 21st, 2002, 11:07 AM

MP3's are where I'm most guilty, I think. I have some MP3's of songs on albums I would never buy, and that's my only rationalization. Perhaps I'll get rid of them soon, so I won't be keeping a double standard.
I also have some live songs and/or covers and/or "team products" that, as far as I know, aren't available anywhere. Technically, these are probably songs that No One should have, because they are from bootlegs or something. But (and I hate to say this when I've been boasting my moral superiority) no one's getting money for them now anyway, and I believe I own virtually all the albums by the bands in question, so I've paid my dues.

Or have I? I buy all my CD's used. The bands aren't getting any money from me anyway. But is there anything immoral about stores that sell used merchandise, really? I'd like to know people's opinions on that.

Anyway, I also have some MP3's that are just plain stealing and that I should dispose of instantly. I think I will get rid of some of them, right now, since they're on albums that I want to get anyway, and if I get rid of the songs I have on them I'll have more incentive to buy them. Used, of course.

Caught me out on that one, but I mentioned it before. Don't try to catch the anti-piracy people doing something illegal to solidify your own stance. It's a classic logical fallacy, an ad hominem argument.

later.

-the valrus

**ElDiabloConCaca** · February 21st, 2002, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by vic
anybody that doesnt pirate software does not need that software. people that piate software need the software but don't have the money to use it. so what's the big deal? when that student that can't pay for photosho get's his/her dream career, they will have enough money to buy adobe photoshop. THat is the only reason why software companies tolerate pyracy, to ensure thy will have future customers.

I don't know of a single software company that has said that they TOLERATE piracy. They accept that a certain percentage of their user base is using the software illegally -- like when Microsoft said, "Hey, we know not everyone is licensed. Here's your chance to buy licenses for your unlicensed use before we take action," -- but that's different from tolerance. Show me a software company that tolerates piracy (NOT accepts a small percentage of it) and I'll show you a guy who will now download 15 multi-thousand dollar programs in one hour.

Point: Piracy is NOT tolerated. Piracy is an action with an accepted (accepted meaning that the software companies are AWARE of it -- NOT OK WITH IT) percentage that companies figure into their expenses -- which is one small reason prices of software steadily go up, along with many other factors.

**vic** · February 21st, 2002, 11:31 AM

of course they won't tell you they tollerate software piracy, but last i checked humans were still capable of lying, a few months ago words like "ethnic clensing" were used by politicians in order to make racist massacres sound perty. so don't give me that "as said that they TOLERATE piracy" shit. if anybody said that, then it would mean your conscience was allowed to be free of guilt if you did pirate their software.

**ElDiabloConCaca** · February 21st, 2002, 11:41 AM

Are you comparing software companies saying they tolerate (or don't tolerate) piracy to politicians' use of "ethnic cleansing" for racial massacres? Wow... I made a comment in this same thread about one person being right while many others being wrong and was compared to Charles Manson... don't you think those comments are being a bit extreme? I'm not feeding anyone bullshit -- and even if I was, it doesn't mean I agree or disagree with you one way or the other.

Hehe... on a lighter note, lemme tell ya a little story to lighten the mood in this thread:

A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold, the bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy and soon began to sing
for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung and promptly dug him out and ate him!

Lessons:

1) Not everyone who drops shit on you is your enemy.
2) Not everyone who gets you out of shit is your friend.
3) And when you're in deep shit, keep your mouth shut.

At any rate, on with the rebuttal...

Even though the software companies don't say they tolerate piracy, I think we could all come to a consensus and agree that software companies don't like piracy, nor do they condone it, nor would they support it in any form. Can we agree on that? I think they KNOW that it happens, and they use some statistical figures to try and see how much piracy goes on, calculate that into losses on their revenue, and adjust some other figures accordingly. Just because they do that doesn't mean that they tolerate it -- they are just aware that it happens.

**whitesaint** · February 21st, 2002, 11:58 AM

Your posts are so full of detail and make so much sense when reading them! I've changed all my views on software piracy after reading your posts. It's wrong, i hope everyone stops it. Except for Microsoft of course...

**Jadey** · February 21st, 2002, 12:29 PM

Personally I don't care if people pirate music or software. That's their business, not mine. However, I think they're both the same. It's interesting that arguments that are made for software piracy are considered not valid, whereas they're supported for music piracy. Example:

More arguments can be made against the music industry (RIAA) which holds these extreme positions:

Yeah, the RIAA has some really terrible positions. So does Microsoft. Especially now.

* no readily available internet distribution

Music are the most often traded files on the net. "mp3" has long surpassed "porn" as the most popular key search on search engines.

* does not permit copying music from CDs that you buy; or to rip mp3s for your iPod player (which I believe is in violation of Fair Use exemption to Copyright)

Yes, this is dumb. Not all software end user license agreements allow you to make backup copies either.

* often no means to listen or "demo" an album before you buy it

Arguably, that's what radio, MuchMusic and MTV are for.

Not picking on you Testuser, in fact I agree most of your points. But why aren't other people's arguments valid when they make the same points about software piracy? Seems we justify our own actions and condemn others.