I bought my first PC

[Anim8r]

Another dumb Mac vs. PC thread...

From what I can see there is a lot of disinformation being thrown about on both sides.

Annihilatus:
First of all, why PC trolls seem to find it necessary to hang around on a Mac site is beyond me.
Secondly, the points about usability/productivity have been proven many times by many independant studies (including one or two by PC magazines), so let's put that to rest.
As any reasonably honest IT person will admit to, it is far too easy to forget the level of expertise held by the average computer user. We (and I tend to include most people on this forum) are the advanced users. Most people be they Mac or PC users don't WANT to know what button to press to fix a problem. They just want a computer that works. We are not at the stafge yet where a computer is easy enough to use to be considered an appliance... but the day is coming.

I am also a certified mac/PC tech, although I currently work as a teacher (who would want to work in IT right now) and I have seen how our IT deprtment works. It is amazing how a department that was created to support the institution begins to feel like thay have enough power to dictate how the institution should be run. Our PCs run well enough (HA), but the macs are not treated as well as they should be. For the simple reason that we have no real mac techs. The instructors do most of the maintenance and they do it well. The Mac labs just work.

I have used Win2K extensively, I have tried XP and find it severely lacking in areas as diverse as support for legacy software and hardware and stability.
I do find OSX to be a more elegant OS in every way. From it's UNIX underpinnings to the GUI.

I still maintain a mixed shop, but as the higher-end 3d/FX applications get ported over, my shop will switch over to the mac exclusively. I get more work done.

[edX]

Chill people.

i am closing this thread for a few hours while you all stop and get some perspefctive.

i would suggest you take this time to read the site rules. pay close attention to rules 1, 3, 6 & 7. You can stop questioning each other's intellegence and integrity. you can stop repeating the same arguments. any mention of piracy and the sources used to participate in the same context will be deleted and a warning issued.

and if anyone uses the word sh*t and its variants without spelling like this, i am just going to delete the whole post. i don't have the time or patience today to sift thru these essays to edit a couple of poorly chosen words.

[edX]

now, can we discuss this in a civil manner, following site rules, before people start losing their accounts here?

[plastic]

Originally posted by Annihilatus

However, when record companies release albums with two good songs in a total of 14, they're basically shooting themselves in the foot. If you want people to buy albums, stop releasing so many sh*tty ones.

Sorry to add this, but they do have singles... I know, not all the "better songs" are released on singles. Sigh... you have a point there. And I do agree.

Come to think about it, it was almost like Photoshop 7. I had to upgrade because of the "healing tool" function. And of course some other little extras. But after a while, it is kind of worth it. I guess everyone has a different point of view when it comes to these things. I shall not say more. As things are as heated up as it is.

Just like how, when I was in my early teens, back in the 80s, was recording songs off the radio onto cassettes, that was piracy and ripping music too. So I guess these days you do it in a more convenient way. So I am guilty too when I was younger.

*sigh*

[kommakazi]

OK, I'm not even going to read everyone else's replies, I'm only going to say this:
What's wrong with you?

[Excalibur]

Originally posted by plastic


Sorry to add this, but they do have singles... I know, not all the "better songs" are released on singles. Sigh... you have a point there. And I do agree.

Come to think about it, it was almost like Photoshop 7. I had to upgrade because of the "healing tool" function. And of course some other little extras. But after a while, it is kind of worth it. I guess everyone has a different point of view when it comes to these things. I shall not say more. As things are as heated up as it is.

Just like how, when I was in my early teens, back in the 80s, was recording songs off the radio onto cassettes, that was piracy and ripping music too. So I guess these days you do it in a more convenient way. So I am guilty too when I was younger.

*sigh*

However the record labels choose the singles you can listen too. What happens if your favorite song is on the album and it never becomes a single? How do they legally go about solving this issue? Thats my issue with their current model that I figured them offering MP3s or selling songs on a per song basis might help. We can pay for what we like, so we don't get screwed into buying a $14.99 CD for 2 songs.

For software I think its a different issue there.

BTW Sorry for floating off topic guys. My fault.

[solrac]

Alright.

I'm not even gonna go through the posts and quote stuff.

I'm just gonna point out the clear facts.

Annhilatus, you are acting like a troll. At first you had clear arguments and demanded facts and numbers. But then you just end up saying that Windows is the best OS ever and that EVERYONE who installs Linux regrets it?

That is utter complete bloody balderdash. (Ed cannot edit out English swear words )

First of all, I know 4 people that run Linux and love it, and live by it, even if the first reason is to be anti-windows. But they have no problems because they are advanced users and know how to use it.

Second, there are Linux meet ups and conventions so I suppose all these people regret installing Linux?

Third, you say windows is super organized, with the running programs in the task bar, services in the tray, programs in the start menu, and complete directory control through DOS. Well Mac OS X has running programs in the dock, and all the programs available in the Applications Folder (which can also be in the dock), and a full UNIX command line which makes DOS look like a child's toy.

But those are just superficial UI elements. What about unistalling programs? In Windows, Can you remove Windows Media Player? No. It's not available in Add / Remove Programs and to try and manually delete it gives you a permission denied error.

When you try to uninstall a program in Windows you may get a warning saying "remove shared components? This may break other applications." So you of course click NO, and now you can never fully un-install something.

Installing a program on Mac OS X is as simple as "Drag this folder to your hard drive". To uninstall it, drag it to the trash. Makes Windows seem ridiculously complicated. I don't even know why they make installer programs for Mac OS X any more...

So while you may run Windows effortlessly because of your IQ of 146, most of that mental power is used in running and learning the intricacies of Windows. Just like a GeForce Graphics card takes a huge chunk of processing power away from the CPU, Mac OS X takes a huge chunk of mental power away from understanding the OS so that you can get your work done. To learn all the intricacies of Mac OS X would make you a UNIX guru, but it's completely unnecessary. The system just works, for anybody 2 years old to 98 years old, knowledgeable or computer illiterate. You can't say the same for Windows. You want facts? Compare the number of tech support calls that Microsoft gets compared to Apple. (Use ratios for an accurate percentage of course, since Microsoft has many more customers.)

Also, if your IQ is 146, you would know that ruinate is in fact an adjective, but is also a verb, depending on the context of the sentence and how you pronounce it, not that I give a flying rat intercourse.

And also, what you say about game developers making no money on mac is false. Of course, all games should be developed for PC since there is the larger customer base, but Apple has MILLIONS of gamers, too, and to spend the effort to release a mac version can ONLY help, not hurt, unless it's a company on a shoestring budget. It's only a matter of time until 90% of games come out on PC and Mac at the same time.

And Plastic (?) or whoever is talking about music piracy. Annihilatus is actually right... Napster did not hurt any artists, only helped them. Piracy in any form helps the artist or software developer. Piracy allows the user base of Photoshop to be 100 million instead of 10 million. 5% of the 90 million users who pirated are sure to buy it as soon as they can afford it. That's almost 5 million users BUYING photoshop because they had a chance to pirate it originally. Why do you think Adobe makes it so easy to copy Photoshop? They KNOW piracy increases their bottom line. Same with P2P and digital music downloads.

If Red Hot Chili Peppers comes out with a new album, I'm going to think that there's only 2 good songs out of 15 total. Why? Because that's how it is 90% of the time. If I can download all the songs for free, and they are ALL good, I'll definitely buy the CD. But I don't even buy CDs anymore. Why? Because the RIAA is an evil, greedy, evil, hateful empire. They had the music market's balls in a tight grip for years and now they're starting to lose it, big time. And their doing all they can to delay it, such as suing anyone and everyone that even BARELY makes a mistake (Judge Dredd style), and even going so low as to pollute gnutella with bogus files. Well it's too little too late. That evil, hateful, greedy empire is going down. Once they release their grip on the market, they'll allow sites to sell music legally for $1 a song, this is the future of the market! And hear low bitrate versions for free.

If I could hear all the tracks on the CD for free at a low bit rate, and I LOVED 5 of the songs only, I would sure as hell pay $5 for them, at a good bitrate, with no errors, and correct ID3 tags, instead of waste time looking for them. So would millions of other consumers. But the RIAA is too dumb and evil and greedy and hateful to see this and so screw it. I don't even buy CDs anymore unless I'm a rabid fan (I'll buy the next Tori Amos CD).

Lastly, this thread was just to say HOW MUCH faster my PC is than my 1.5 year old TiBook 400, but how the Mac OS is better in every way (in my opinion), but that the PC rules in speed and value for the money. The mac doesn't have a long way to go to be the technology and value and market leader now.... like I said, the tables are turning for Apple! Just give it a couple years for hardware to be awesome, games to be out at the same time, and oh man...... who wouldn't get a mac?

[Annihilatus]

Originally posted by solrac
Annhilatus, you are acting like a troll. At first you had clear arguments and demanded facts and numbers. But then you just end up saying that Windows is the best OS ever and that EVERYONE who installs Linux regrets it?

I never said everyone who installs linux regrets it. I said that everyone I know that installs Linux regrets it. There's a difference.

Third, you say windows is super organized, with the running programs in the task bar, services in the tray, programs in the start menu, and complete directory control through DOS. Well Mac OS X has running programs in the dock, and all the programs available in the Applications Folder (which can also be in the dock), and a full UNIX command line which makes DOS look like a child's toy.

The thing about the dock is that it doesn't show you what programs are running only, it has shortcuts to programs as well as anything that's currently running. That's nowhere near as organized as Windows that only has what's running on its taskbar. As for Unix's command line and Dos looking like a child's toy... well a lot of people I know enjoyed Dos and especially loved how easy it was to learn and employ. The command prompt allows power users to do certain tasks in a quicker and easier way, so does Unix's. There's no way of comparing the two, it's all a matter of preference. Either way though, Dos is a lot easier to use and learn than Unix is.

But those are just superficial UI elements. What about unistalling programs? In Windows, Can you remove Windows Media Player? No. It's not available in Add / Remove Programs and to try and manually delete it gives you a permission denied error.

Why would you really want to delete Windows Media Player though? That's the biggest question. It's a program that you don't have to use that allows you to view web content, DivX (with the codec) and listen to MP3's. It's basically there with Windows once you install it. If you prefer using something else for any of the aforementioned tasks, install something else. It's not difficult. I mentioned in an earlier post though that Microsoft, as much as possible, makes its OS to add features with each new version whereas some would argue that it would be better to make it more secure. WMP adds a lot of features, as does IE, OE and MSN Messenger. Sure it would be great to uninstall it, but there's a bigger advantage to them being there. I work at a tech support place where people suddenly feel they need to be connected to the Internet. They call in and say 'I'd like an account'. If MS didn't put all that it does in its OS, we would have to send those people a CD and have them install software. However, since IE and OE are already there, we can set up their browsing and email within minutes.

When you try to uninstall a program in Windows you may get a warning saying "remove shared components? This may break other applications." So you of course click NO, and now you can never fully un-install something.

Wow you really don't read what the windows say do you? The remove shared components window comes up ONLY if shared components are safe to remove. It'll say something to the extent of 'windows has detected that the following shared components are no longer used by the system.' Removing them is safe.

Installing a program on Mac OS X is as simple as "Drag this folder to your hard drive". To uninstall it, drag it to the trash. Makes Windows seem ridiculously complicated. I don't even know why they make installer programs for Mac OS X any more...

That would TECHNICALLY be true but it doesn't always work that way the same as Windows TECHNICALLY would have a great uninstaller that removes ALL of the program's entries even though it doesn't do that. New programs for Windows, when they are installed, actually allow you to uninstall everything including registry entries. Any program made by Microsoft for instance, when you remove it, it really does remove everything from the system. Technically, it is quite simple. On Mac OS's side, be it 9 or X, very often a person will drag a folder into the trash and it won't want to delete all of the contents. No matter what you do, it'll constantly say that it cannot delete one or more of the files in there. In my opinion, Windows' uninstaller is technically superior in that it allows you to remove everything, even certain things you didn't know existed (registry entries). Mac OS', especially in the case of OS 9, allows you to remove the program but sometimes there were extensions installed with the program nd those don't get removed at all. Both OS' have issues with this but MS' is getting better (except in the case of Mozilla or Netscape where uninstalling the browser removes absolutely nothing).

And also, what you say about game developers making no money on mac is false. Of course, all games should be developed for PC since there is the larger customer base, but Apple has MILLIONS of gamers, too, and to spend the effort to release a mac version can ONLY help, not hurt, unless it's a company on a shoestring budget. It's only a matter of time until 90% of games come out on PC and Mac at the same time.

Use ratios like I did because I don't think you even thoroughly read my post. I said that if 10% of all PC users decided to buy a game, then there would be a huge number of sales. But if 10% of all Mac users decided to buy a game, the sales wouldn't be sufficient enough to warrant the release. Either way though, Apple users including yourself stress that the Mac is a productive unit. For 4000$, you're not buying a gaming machine but something that will produce your music or video. If you consider that the majority of people who buy Macs want a productive machine since that's what it's considered to be, you would immediately realize that there are few gamers out there on the Mac and that's why a lot of companies simply don't give a crap if Mac users can play games or not.

If I could hear all the tracks on the CD for free at a low bit rate, and I LOVED 5 of the songs only, I would sure as hell pay $5 for them, at a good bitrate, with no errors, and correct ID3 tags, instead of waste time looking for them. So would millions of other consumers. But the RIAA is too dumb and evil and greedy and hateful to see this and so screw it. I don't even buy CDs anymore unless I'm a rabid fan (I'll buy the next Tori Amos CD).

There are some artists people definitely want to support and to say the least, Tori Amos usually releases albums that are consistently incredible. In the end, when you buy an Amos CD, you can expect the majority of it to be quite good. That's not true of artists like Vanessa Carlton or Avril Lavigne (whom I absolutely despise). That's not true of the majority of rockers, especially of rappers. The 1$ per song idea is actually quite a good one and frankly, if music companies released a music service in which favored songs can be downloaded from a central server at 1$ a piece, I'd go for it. It'll never happen though because these companies are greedy and much like most of the corporations in the United States, they want to suck as much out of you as possible.

Lastly, this thread was just to say HOW MUCH faster my PC is than my 1.5 year old TiBook 400, but how the Mac OS is better in every way (in my opinion), but that the PC rules in speed and value for the money. The mac doesn't have a long way to go to be the technology and value and market leader now.... like I said, the tables are turning for Apple! Just give it a couple years for hardware to be awesome, games to be out at the same time, and oh man...... who wouldn't get a mac?

I was considering a Mac for a very long time and in the end I decided it was a bad purchase simply because it has an interface I would never be able to get used to. The price that you pay on top of it all, for a machine that you KNOW will not be upgradeable is ridiculous. When I bought my first PC, I made the mistake of buying one that couldn't even add ISA cards into it (PS/1 by IBM in 1991). From that point on, I bought a 386/16 and upgraded it nonstop since then. Basically, what I'm using now is simply the same 386/16 that has been upgraded over and over. Did I ever break the bank? No. Do I have a machine now that's more powerful than any Mac? Yes.

Andre