Respecting each other

[cokeymon]

Ed what sort of control freak are you? Are you desperately trying to destroy MacOSX? I thought Californians were supposed to be laid back.

Noone used offensive language in those posts you quoted - people just argued passionatley. So what if egos get bruised - that's what debate is all about.

I understand why you don't allow foul lannguage, but there is nothing in those posts that would be harmful to a minor - so why censor it. It seems like power is going to your head. Try watching a german film called "Das Experiment" which shows how people in power inevitably abuse power - based on a true story and especially apt in german given that country's Nazi past.

Anyway, you might notice I don't often post, but I'm here every day reading and I enjoy the odd chortle at people who make unreasonable arguments. It's FUNNY not offensive. By getting rid of all the passion from this site you will also get rid of a lot of members.

And please, on reading this, don't get all sanctimonious and ask the members to have a vote on how great/bad you are - that is the ultimate sign of someone who's a bit worried he might be going too far.

If everyone on this forum is continually worried their posts might be deleted, why will they post? Just think things through before you stick your power hungry boot in.

So in summary, Ed, chill out - spend some time in your garden, and let people who are passionate, and sometimes childish, express themselves.

[edX]

cokeymon
From the site rules -

No slandering the character of a board participant - Even if they are mentally retarded and were probably abused by their parents, you shouldn't be compounding their difficulties by publicly airing their personal problems. Everyone has the right to disagree with any other board member, however, the disagreements should focus on the issue and not person issues.

i was not alone in creating the site rules. in fact i had only a small input. the fact of the matter is that this site is not a usenet group and personal attacks, belittling and questioning the intelligence and integrity of other members is not going to be tolerated. if i weren't moderating this forum, someone else would be in charge of seeing to it that site rules are obeyed. moderators might change - the rules are going to remain. if you find personal attacks entertaining, join usenet or find a forum that encourages them, cause this ain't it.

i think you'll find i'm being pretty "laid back" by allowing people to take personal responsibility for cleaning up their own acts instead of me just deleting or editing their posts from the start. this isn't about power, this is about keeping discussions within the boundaries of the site policy. frankly, i wish all i had to do as a moderator was move a few threads to their correct forums.

and if i were a "control freak", then i would be busy deleting your personal attacks on me.

[edX]

hulk -

i don't have the time and energy to point out what is insulting about each of your posts. but let me take one and give you a clear interpretation

-"Try to be truthful and not try to argue with me..."
I just told someone to tell the truth and not just argue with me for the sake of JUST arguing... Does that implies that I do not respect the other person? How is that?

you are indirectly calling the person a liar. you are saying that they aren't being truthful. you are making an assumption based upon your perceptions of the world which may or may not be right. if you told me to be truthful, i would be pretty offended that you thought i wouldn't be. if you could, on the other hand, show me where i was mistaken, then i would be inclined to admit that my previous truth had been changed.

but some people are going to confront you some time with opinions that no amount of "facts" are going to change. insulting them is not going to change them and it doesn't make you look any smarter. i know you're a smart guy hulk, just a little emotional about your macs. but you've got to learn to ignore some things and be the bigger man. it isn't about being right or wrong sometimes.

as for posting pics to show your point - please do. neyo does it all the time. sometimes a pic says more than words can, particularly when you have language difficulties. there's no problems with that. just keep in mind, that people are entitled to their own opinions whether you agree with them or not.

I would be glad to talk to you more about this privately when i get up tomorrow. please think about what i've said so far.

[edX]

one last thing for now - verbal emotional abuse is one of the major contributions to depression, low self esteem and other personal problems related to mental illnesses. if i can help reduce it in just this one place at this point in time, then i can go to bed at night feeling good about myself despite the verbal abuse heaped upon me for doing it.


"We are human beings first and everything else second. Let us treat each other as such." - from my sig.

[cokeymon]

You cannot possible interpret "publicly airing their personal problems" as calling someone stupid.

Given that this is the internet, and users often have many online personalities, how can any of us really know who it is we're insulting?

Look at the so called insults - you'll find they're most often used in a school playground i.e. by people who have no real idea of the problems/personalities of the "insultee"

Which is why I mentioned the power thing. No-one (sensible) could possibly be insulted by Hulkaros inference that they're stupid - it's just his opinion and his perhaps childish way of arguing.

So why don't you let people of all intellects, not just well educated adults, post here.

And before you ask or I get flamed, I'm a qualified accountant with a degree in Engineering.

[fryke]

Feel free to edit/remove my posts. I know I've been a bit aggressive lately in some threads. Never without reason, I guess, but still: I don't mind if you decide what's gonna have to be EDited.

[bbloke]

As much as a dislike censorship (in general), I have to fully support Ed's actions here. I had been commenting to friends for some weeks now that I felt things were degenerating on the forum, but I was hoping things would improve. I don't think it is necessary for people to be insulting when debating. Surely we should be interested in learning from both facts and the opinions of others, and not so much be interested in "winning," and that is why we are here on this forum?

The other thing, which I see as being highly important, is that I felt some posts, but not all (nor am I saying everyone who has been "reprimanded" is guilty of this! ), had degenerated to such a degree that little or nothing of value was being contributed to the discussion. There were times I didn't feel some posts of the posts could be called "passionate," only aggressive and condescending. Hence, to me, the censorship was not obscuring views or factual information, only removing the recent "venom" from the forum.

The amount of work involved in moderating the forums seems to have become quite large recently, especially with the sheer quantity of text! Also, I think the decision to suspend the threads and force everyone to take stock of the situation was not an easy one to make, but I'm glad you did this, Ed.

[serpicolugnut]

one last thing for now - verbal emotional abuse is one of the major contributions to depression, low self esteem and other personal problems related to mental illnesses. if i can help reduce it in just this one place at this point in time, then i can go to bed at night feeling good about myself despite the verbal abuse heaped upon me for doing it.

I've been hanging around on this site for over a year and half now. I'm pretty respectful of others' opinions and like to think that comes through in my posts (most of the time). However, the recent censorship on this board seems ultra anal to me. Some of it is warranted, but most of it over reaching. And if I have to hear Ed go on and on about "using Netscape benefits AOL" business one more time, I'm gonna lose it. Why not spread the gospel about who the use of IE benefits, Ed?

There was a time when this site was lively, interesting, and full of colorful personalities. Not so much anymore. A lot of it can be attributed to OS X becoming more mainstream in the Mac ecosystem, a lot of has to do with lively personalities dropping off (SimX - where did you go?), but even more of it, I feel, has to do with the whining from the moderators.

Sorry Ed. But if you are losing sleep over the behavior of some on these boards, it's time to get a hobby in the real world, and stop worrying about meaningless things like the tone of chatter on these boards.

So I'm dropping off. I'm not really doing this in protest, but more of disgust. I just don't have time to contribute my thoughts to big brother esque forums where the moderator is so sensitive to words that he's losing sleep at night. I don't want to hurt your feelings Ed, but you are coming across as bedwetter. I'm sure that will get edited out, but I think it needed to be said (if only for your eyes).

For those of you here that still wish to converse with moi, I can be found on AIM (serpicolugnut), and over at www.osxfactor.com, or over at www.serpicolugnut.com. Hope to hear from those worth conversing with.