Leopard to Feature Redesigned Finder

[Mikuro]

For me, it's the virtually incomprehensible way toolbars are handled. Sometimes they're there, sometimes they're not. You can't specify it on a window-by-window basis.....except, of course, when you can. If you don't think that made any sense, good. That means you're sane.

The problem stems from the fact that windows are no longer directly associated with the folders they represent (except, of course, when the are. Yay!). You can have a dozen different window open, all displaying the same folder, and all with different settings. So when you close a window...where are those settings saved? Good luck figuring THAT one out. It seems like Apple just doesn't give a darn about anyone who likes to do things the "old" way. "If you don't like column view in toobar windows, then you don't matter!" seems to be Apple's new motto with OS X.

Furthermore, newly created folders all have the same view options, no matter what. Icon view, blah blah blah. In OS 9, a new folder inherited the view options from the folder that contained it, and its window position was offset a bit so it would not entirely overlap its parent folder.

Also, a lot of little things have just gotten worse since OS 9, like, again, renaming files. It was so simple in OS 9. In OS X it's a chore. You click on the file name. You wait. You realize it's not going to bring up the editor. So you click again. You wait again. The editor finally comes up! But it's...blank, and doesn't respond to anything. So you select another file, and try again. In OS 9 this "just worked". You click the name, and it'll wait a split second to allow for double clicking. After that, you were in editing mode. And if you didn't want to wait, all you had to do was move the mouse after clicking (since obviously you're not interested in double-clicking if you've moved the mouse) and the editor popped up immediately. Soooo nice. This feature is completely gone in X.

Finally, the "snap to grid" option is all but useless in OS X, because for some reason it insists on spacing the grid spaces more than 128 pixels apart, no matter what size your icons are. Greeeeat. In OS 9 the grid was TIGHT, and it would snap objects the nearest point where the names wouldn't overlap the next one. It was so much better. Icon view in X is a pain in the butt.

There are more little quirks in the Finder. Apple mixes a lot of metaphors when they designed it, and they never made the effort to make them play nice with each other. The result is an interface that is unpredictable and defies logic.

End rant.

[Lt Major Burns]

it is actually one area where i like windows. explorer, is (don't kill me), a very good way of accessing files. it's very consistent, it's always the same! if it isn't, it's because you've turned the sidebar off, or changed the view yourself!. explorer windows are ALWAYS the same. it's just the lack of technology in the appearance of it that lets it down.

[NarutoSasuke]

I can see where you guys come from and I can see how stuff like that can get annoying. Hopefully, many of these issues can be handled with a new version of Finder, one that works with the already wonderful "Spotlight" would be a good upgrade.

[smithy]

One thing that pisses me off about Finder, is generally how long it takes to open eg. Applications folder. Finder just seems really slow to me in some ways. The Finder in Tiger is the best so far, but still has a lot to be desired. In comparison Panther to Tiger, Finder would take ages to actaully get a thumbnail pic of around 130 image files. In Tiger it is alot quicker, so I can defanitly see a major overhual trend of the Finder in Leopard.

Lt Major Burns, i can't belive you like windows explorer!!! Actually don't worry i do to for some reason. It does seem zippy even on the slowest of machines, but like you said it is just the lack of technology, appearance and stability that lets it down.

[g/re/p]

[fryke]

Yeah, they _should_ have just offered column view to replace all other views instead of half-heartedly bring along "old style" Finder windows that have _not_ worked consistently in _any_ version of OS X since. But Ars Technica has, I think, about three dozen articles on that very subject...

[mindbend]

Those are pretty good points, actually. Here's some more:

1. How about more and better previews (Illustrator for example. I mean, they can bring in AI files beuatifully into Keynote, do the same for the Finder previews. After all, they're really just PDfs these days. Same for Indesign files. And lots of others.)

2. Here's a subtle, but annoying one for me. If you have a folder of movies in column view and you stretch out the far right panel (so the movie plays bigger when you're previewing it), if you delete that movie or move it, the panel shrinks back to the original smaller size. I know, pretty obscure, but I tend to preview a lot movie files in column view.

3. For the love of god, can someone write a shareware app that shows me file size total (like maybe putting in the bottom of a window or something) when I select files without making me open a Get Info window?!

4. Didn't the Finder very recently (pre-Tiger) used to show Get Info's on multiple windows by "summing" the data? In other words, if you selected ten files and chose Get Info (Command+I) it would bring up one summary window, not ten, right? Or am I crazy? Did they go back to the stupid OS 9 way of bringing up ten Get Info windows? Is that a preference somewhere? I hate that. (Yes, I know about Command+Option+I, but that works a little differently in that it reacts to newly selected files and frustratingly doesn't close via Command+W. Could they please get more consistent with what things require Command+Q, Command+W or neither—if you choose Command+Option+I (you have to do Command+Option+I again. WTH?).

5. If you select multiple items in the column view, there's no summary window in the right panel. Huh? Just do some simple math computer, you're supposed to be good at that. (Hint: 2 MB plus 4MB equals 6MB.)

Other thoughts:

1. The Finder renaming mode is indeed too slow. It seemed like they fixed it a while back and then it slowed down again. I've resorted to taking the approach of implementing the Return key to get instant-edit mode. Still not as good as the quick mouse flick edit method of old. I can't comprehend Apple going backwards like that.

2. OS X does seem better overall at allowing keyboard navigation. I've become quite accustomed to primarily navigating via keyboard. Once you get used to it, it's surprisingly fast. Usually faster than a mouse.

3. I use iKey for launching apps and files as well as opening directories at the window size, format and position that I want. It gets around the Finder's somewhat inconsistent approach. For example, I set Control+D to open my documents folder at a set size and position. Way fast. Anyone who is navigating manually to their commonly used folders is wasting their time. I watch people digging through folders getting to things they use all the time. It makes me crazy.

[Mikuro]

Originally Posted by fryke

Yeah, they _should_ have just offered column view to replace all other views instead of half-heartedly bring along "old style" Finder windows that have _not_ worked consistently in _any_ version of OS X since.

If they had done that, I absolutely never would have upgraded to OS X. I mean it. The half-heartedness kept me away pretty long as it was, but if they'd done away with it altogether, I would've jumped ship. Better to have a slap in the face than a kick in the groin. I can't begin to describe how much I hate column view... (although I do think the general idea of it is great)

Originally Posted by mindbend

4. Didn't the Finder very recently (pre-Tiger) used to show Get Info's on multiple windows by "summing" the data? In other words, if you selected ten files and chose Get Info (Command+I) it would bring up one summary window, not ten, right? Or am I crazy? Did they go back to the stupid OS 9 way of bringing up ten Get Info windows? Is that a preference somewhere? I hate that. (Yes, I know about Command+Option+I, but that works a little differently in that it reacts to newly selected files and frustratingly doesn't close via Command+W. Could they please get more consistent with what things require Command+Q, Command+W or neither—if you choose Command+Option+I (you have to do Command+Option+I again. WTH?).

This is another thing that has simply confounded me since upgrading to Tiger. It's true, they used to always display in one window. I actually hated it that way, because most of the time I wanted multiple windows (which surprises me when I think of it abstractly, but nevertheless, it's true in practice). So I'm actually glad they have two methods for this now. The problem is that it is, once again, implemented in an incomprehensible manner.

For one thing, like you mentioned, the Inspector is a floating window, whereas the normal Get Info is not. This has always bugged me. I just find it hard to imagine anyone wanting to use it that way. I usually want to take a glance at it and then close it. But since I can't close it from the keyboard, I always end up closing my active window instead by mistake. Ugh. It makes sense that it's a floating window when you consider the history of it, but at this point it really ought to be a plain window.

But the worst part is that sometimes the regular command-I DOES open the one grouped info window, just like before. Despite my best efforts, I've never been able to determine any rhyme or reason to this. It just happens every now then. Go figure! It's possible this has been fixed in 10.4.2, but I can't say for sure since I never figured out a way to reproduce it reliably.


Most of my problems with the Finder can be summed up by saying that Apple no longer seems to reconsider the overall design of things when they make changes. They just make changes and additions that sound good, but they don't revisit all the things these changes effect. Which, come to think of it, was my biggest beef about Windows' apparent design philosophy for many years.