17" PowerBook

**Zammy-Sam** · January 8th, 2003, 01:37 PM

Do you have a link for this test, leadfootedfool?

I kinda doubt it was an apple system. The comparison between those graphiccards on windows systems won't be same as for apple, since most of the tests are based on direct3d. The results might look completly different under OpenGL used on apple systems. If Tom did good job, he also must have compared the OpenGL performance of both.
And in such tests the GeForce Go (even 420) always performs faster than the ati 9000 mobility, as far as I know

**leadfootedfool** · January 8th, 2003, 01:55 PM

http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/...he_contestants

You're right it wasn't on a mac, but comparing the 440 and 9000, they're almost identical. It's a tossup between the two. Now as far as the 460 thats something else.

**quiksan** · January 8th, 2003, 02:28 PM

funny, I had a similar conversation with a co-worker today. (I'm a switcher at heart, and rooling for the day I can actually jump on that wagon and get an apple laptop. )

The 17" alBook has got me so hot! course telling my co worker that they just released this new version, she says, "See, if you keep waiting, you'll get something better."

hmm, the problem there is that I could wait FOREVER, and there will ALWAYS be something bigger/better/faster/etc to look forward to.

I agree, for those who just bought their TiBooks within the last month or so, this is a revolting development. But life happens.
they'll prolly release a killer new version of an AlBook directly following my future purchase of a 15" or 17".

I'll hafta deal I spose, but in the meantime, you all have your snazzy apple laptops, and I am stuck on a pc....

puts things in perspective, eh?

**Zammy-Sam** · January 8th, 2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by leadfootedfool
http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/...he_contestants

You're right it wasn't on a mac, but comparing the 440 and 9000, they're almost identical. It's a tossup between the two. Now as far as the 460 thats something else.

I have just compared the results for Quake3Arena from the graphiccards. The Geforce Go performs better than the ati 9000 even the 440 has higher frames. I am not sure about the other benchmarks, but I think most are direct3d. Still I was very surprised, that the ati performs so much better than the Geforce Go, even that it's direct3d

**leadfootedfool** · January 8th, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by quiksan
funny, I had a similar conversation with a co-worker today. (I'm a switcher at heart, and rooling for the day I can actually jump on that wagon and get an apple laptop. )

The 17" alBook has got me so hot! course telling my co worker that they just released this new version, she says, "See, if you keep waiting, you'll get something better."

hmm, the problem there is that I could wait FOREVER, and there will ALWAYS be something bigger/better/faster/etc to look forward to.

I agree, for those who just bought their TiBooks within the last month or so, this is a revolting development. But life happens.
they'll prolly release a killer new version of an AlBook directly following my future purchase of a 15" or 17".

I'll hafta deal I spose, but in the meantime, you all have your snazzy apple laptops, and I am stuck on a pc....

puts things in perspective, eh?

I was all stoked about the keynote yesterday.

PB= check.
Airport=check.
First stream on the mac=dud.

I ended up watching the thing on my pc because I couldn't get it to work on my pb. Then they announce the new ones. DOH!! But anyway, I'm not to upset, people have to wait 7-10 weeks for their 17"ers and I get to use mine that entire time. And if I was always worried about them updating I'd never buy one.

**Cat** · January 8th, 2003, 03:07 PM

Leadfootedfool wrote:
"I ended up watching the thing on my pc because I couldn't get it to work on my pb."

I had a problem on my iBook too! So I watched on my peecee, which crashed right before the announcement of the new PowerBooks

About the lid: Aluminium is more rigid than titanium if I remember correctly. You would need a whole lot more of info to calculate exactly how much pressure the lid of the 17" can stand, but if they hadn't thought about it thoroughly (the issue being known from the Ti) they woulndn't release it.

**Zammy-Sam** · January 8th, 2003, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Cat
Leadfootedfool wrote:
"I ended up watching the thing on my pc because I couldn't get it to work on my pb."

I had a problem on my iBook too! So I watched on my peecee, which crashed right before the announcement of the new PowerBooks

About the lid: Aluminium is more rigid than titanium if I remember correctly. You would need a whole lot more of info to calculate exactly how much pressure the lid of the 17" can stand, but if they hadn't thought about it thoroughly (the issue being known from the Ti) they woulndn't release it.

I doubt that aluminium is more rigid than titanium, but anyway, if Apple gave it a thought than I am really fine with it!

It's just one of the first things I would check, if I could hold that Baby in my arms...

**jeb1138** · January 8th, 2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Zammy-Sam
...is there any device out there supporting firewire800? I am just wondering why they didn't use USB2.0? That would have been much smarter than firewire800, if you ask me. And the disc couldn't handle 100MB/sec at all, eventhough the ide-cable would...
So? Why firewire800 than?

I can't believe Apple already added Firewire 800 to their lineup! That's awesome! I'm so happy!

First off, USB 2.0 is already inferior to Firewire 400, especially for applications requiring guaranteed delivery and total reliability. Check out tomshardware's review of the two standards:

"the main application for FireWire was real-time data transfer, with digital video, for instance. This points us to exactly the advantage that FireWire has to offer, because the data stream must remain uninterrupted with such applications. "
and
"The advantages offered by the FireWire protocol cannot be used by scanners, digicams, DSL modems or joysticks. On the other hand, USB 2.0, in its current form, could never deliver continuous streams of data, which are required for hard disk recording and video applications."
http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

So basically, USB (1 or 2) doesn't deliver in many applications that Apple is focusing their digital hub strategy around. On the other hand, Firewire always delivers but often some of it's coolest features aren't taken advantage of. However, if you've got Firewire already for the applications that do use it, there's absolutely no reason that you need USB 2.0. USB 1 is still essential because of its super low cost to implement in devices, and the PB has USB 1. Firewire can replace USB 2.0, but USB 2.0 can't replace Firewire. Of course, realistically, the PC world will be as slow as ever to jump on the innovation train and there will be lots of peripherals, like cameras, out there that only have USB 2.0, I'm sure. So it would be nice for Apple to add USB 2.0 just to ensure compatibility with the sluggish PC peripheral world. However, USB 2.0 hasn't even really caught on fire (in terms of devices available and people that have it) yet in the PC world, so Apple still has a good amount of time to add this. More important in my mind is that Apple drive innovation and plan for the future and their awesome digital hub strategy, which is what Firewire 800 does. Firewire isn't just faster than USB, it's a far superior technology.

Think big, think this: Your house is wired with Firewire 800 ports everywhere. Every device, every digital toy, communicates with each other. Wireless Firewire arrives and your TV, Tivo, iPod, DVD Player, PDA, Audio system, telephone, everything talks over the same single line (wired or wireless) to your desktop or laptop computer. And with tcp/ip over firewire you don't even need ethernet cables and you maintain compatibility. Cool! There's so many applications for that capability, I won't even start! And even better, firewire, unlike USB, allows devices to talk directly to each other without needing a host (aka a desktop/laptop computer) and enables peer-to-peer networking among devices so your Phillips receiver can tell your iPod what to do, and etc. Finally, you must have guaranteed data delivery, which is the nail in the coffin for USB 2.0 in such applications.

Why do we need firewire 800 instead of 400? Firewire 800 is perfect for the digital hub not only because it is faster, but because of much longer possible cable lengths -- up to 100m per hop (between devices) compared to 4.5m per hop with Firewire 400!!! Try wiring a house or connecting lots of equipment with a maximum cable length of 4.5m! As for speed increase, remember that theoretical maximums are different than actual maximums and that today's hardrives push firewire 400 to its limit today. Hopefully, harddrive speeds will soon eclipse firewire 400 capability completely. And besides having just a single harddrive eating up all the bandwidth, think about multiple devices, like I mentioned above, using the bus at the same time. Talk about the need for speed! Apple will use Firewire 800 to take the digital hub strategy to the next level.

I still hope they include USB 2.0 someday, but I'm much more pleased to see Firewire 800 than I would be to see USB 2.0.