mad at Apple

[ebykm]

I don't know where to post this........

I've been using MacOS since the System 7 days and was planning to purchase a portable system capable of running OS X, Solaris, Ubuntu and windows natively.

So, i posted the question in Apple Discussions regarding the same, all i asked was if *nix es can be run on Mac natively or anyone have done it successfully and guess what after getting 5 or so replies, my post mysteriously vanished deleted by the hosts :eek:

and my next post regarding the deletion of the post also vanished after 5 replies. :mad: :mad:

Thought if all these OSes could quad boot on a Mac, i could save $$$$ by avoiding generic x86 hardware. If Apple doesn't like putting other Operating Systems on their hardware, why the hell they created Boot Camp :mad: , or are they affraid of Solaris & Ubuntu ?.

What do you think ?.

[Lt Major Burns]

linux people will always try to get linux to run on anything. if your toaster one day had a screen, it'd be a good bet that someone would get linux to run on it within weeks.

although i don't know if linux works or not, i would guess so, and i've heard stories i think.

solaris is more difficult, but probably runs along the same theory.

[bbloke]

Hmm, I am not sure what Apple's reasons for deleting the posts were. Linux has been run on PowerPC Macs for years, so I would be surprised if Apple objected to talk of Linux on Intel Macs (unless there were direct performance comparisons with OS X that were less than favorable?). Are there any legal issues about running Solaris on a Mac, which Apple want to steer clear of?

I did a little bit of searching and found a few pages that might be of interest:

Solaris:
Solaris Nevada build 36 running on an iMac (http://blogs.sun.com/setje/?entry=solaris_on_the_imac)

Solaris on an Intel Mac using Parallels Desktop (http://solarisparallels.wetpaint.com/)


Linux:
Engadget article on Linux running on Intel iMacs (http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/16/linux-boots-on-intel-imacs/)

Mactel-Linux (http://www.mactel-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page) - efforts to get Linux running on Intel Macs

Linux vs. OS X on an Intel Mac (http://sekhon.berkeley.edu/macosx/)


Oh, and as a side note, there has been mention of Leopard being able to use Sun's ZFS (http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/08/proof_that_os_x_leopard_will_u.html)...

[Viro]

The Intel Macs run Linux perfectly. However, take it from a long time Linux user, Mac OS X has nothing to fear from Linux as far as usability is concerned. Performance wise, while it isn't bad, there are things that could be better. You will not notice a performance difference, unless you're running some benchmarks to measure that difference.

[DeltaMac]

I can't tell you about quad-booting, but Parallels will do the ones you mention as guest OSes, plus many more, all while remaining booted to OS X.
http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/os/

[simbalala]

linux people will always try to get linux to run on anything. if your toaster one day had a screen, it'd be a good bet that someone would get linux to run on it within weeks.I bought an electronic meat thermometer yesterday and I was waiting for the penguin to pop up on the LCD display.

[fryke]

(Moved the thread. "Opinions & Open Letters", from its description, looks like the perfect fit for me.) :)

[chevy]

I bought an electronic meat thermometer yesterday and I was waiting for the penguin to pop up on the LCD display.

It only works when you cook penguin meat...

... ok sorry, I leave the place ...

[symphonix]

... If your toaster one day had a screen, it'd be a good bet that someone would get linux to run on it within weeks.

You're too late. Ever heard of "The Linux Toaster"?

[ebykm]

Hmm, I am not sure what Apple's reasons for deleting the posts were. Linux has been run on PowerPC Macs for years, so I would be surprised if Apple objected to talk of Linux on Intel Macs (unless there were direct performance comparisons with OS X that were less than favorable?).

Me too, i haven't asked any questions/comparisons.

Are there any legal issues about running Solaris on a Mac, which Apple want to steer clear of?

I'm not sure, as far i know there shouldn't be any legal issues.


I did a little bit of searching and found a few pages that might be of interest:


Thanks, but i've been searching the topic for the past few months and came up with the same results. I'm not interested in any virtualization software as it requires hell of $$$$ RAM. $700 for 2GB single SODIMM

[Sunnz]

Just wondering, did you bookmark those messages your posted in the Apple forums?

[ebykm]

nope Sunnz, only the headings are visible under "My Questions".

[Satcomer]

You're too late. Ever heard of "The Linux Toaster"?

Picture please. That would be funny to see.

[Sunnz]

http://www.netbsd.org

Ok, it is not Linux... but close enough!!! I think they are the first to be ported to a toaster anyway!!!

[doemel]

$700 for 2GB single SODIMM

Not quite. The prices are FINALLY coming down to a reasonable level. You can get 2GB SO-DIMMS for around $250 (http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_memory-information/DM50_190.asp) now. Memory manufacturers/resellers have kept the prices high artificially to make some money for a while but I guess that's over with now.
OWC and Transint'l also have some good deals if you're reluctant to buying some brand that doesn't say Mac compatible. I for one have never cared about that and always just stuck to the tech specs and have never come across a memory module that didn't work in the system I bought it for.

[supanatral]

I went in the apple store because my computer wasn't working right. So I just quickly asked them how I would do it or which version of ubuntu would work with it and they wouldn't even drop any hints or tell me a word about it. It felt like i just swore in the Apple store.

[PGTips]

I went in the apple store because my computer wasn't working right. So I just quickly asked them how I would do it or which version of ubuntu would work with it and they wouldn't even drop any hints or tell me a word about it. It felt like i just swore in the Apple store.

It's an Apple store. The staff are trained to support Apples. The live, breathe, eat all things Apples.

Now, how are they supposed to know what version of Ubuntu runs on what? Who knows what version of kernel, Gnome, HAL, drivers run on which version of Ubuntu? You gotta ask yourself, how likely is it that someone working in an Apple store is going to know about Linux, much less Ubuntu?

If you want Ubuntu specific information, you will be much better off asking on the Debian mailing lists or the Ubuntu forums.

[supanatral]

It's an Apple store. The staff are trained to support Apples. The live, breathe, eat all things Apples.

Now, how are they supposed to know what version of Ubuntu runs on what? Who knows what version of kernel, Gnome, HAL, drivers run on which version of Ubuntu? You gotta ask yourself, how likely is it that someone working in an Apple store is going to know about Linux, much less Ubuntu?

If you want Ubuntu specific information, you will be much better off asking on the Debian mailing lists or the Ubuntu forums.

That is true. However they should know that they're hardware would except a x86 or 64 bit verion. Plus Linux and Mac OSX is extremly similar. If you talk to any PC technician it is pretty much granted that they know linux, so why are macs any different considering that linux runs on macs as well?

[doemel]

In my experience a lot of PC techs don't care about Linux because their too narrow minded and focused on Windows. So I don't see why the same shouldn't be true for Mac techs. OTOH Linux has always been more DIY than Windows or Mac OS and even though we have easily installable distros now they still involve more hacking than your average consumer OS.

A nice side effect of this: there's usually plenty of info and help on the interweb regarding Linux. So, Google is your friend. You don't go asking MS support about Linux either.

[nixgeek]

Because it's not in their best interest as Apple employees to promote another product. They already have an OS. That would be like Microsoft support helping out Linux users. Unless they come out with a product on something like Linux, they won't help you....it's not in their interest to do so. Same with the Apple Geniuses at the Apple Store. Yes, Macs can run Linux...but that doesn't mean they are there to support another operating system that has nothing to do with Apple directly. They probably do know how to use Linux on PowerPC or Intel Macs, but they are there to promote Mac OS X and Apple's other products only.

And regarding PC techs, like doemel said many of them are too focused on Windows to care. The ones that do go about giving Linux a try are few and far between. I know because I deal with a lot of techs in the school district I work for, and a lot of them only care about Windows...it's what gives them job security. It's taken me a long time to finally get some of them to come around and give Linux a try. It's been a lot easier now with Ubuntu Feisty being released, but many of them just don't care since our district is Microsoft-based.

[CharlieJ]

Thats like going to Microsoft and saying... Why isnt my Mac running right on my PC.

I don't know where to post this........

I've been using MacOS since the System 7 days and was planning to purchase a portable system capable of running OS X, Solaris, Ubuntu and windows natively.

So, i posted the question in Apple Discussions regarding the same, all i asked was if *nix es can be run on Mac natively or anyone have done it successfully and guess what after getting 5 or so replies, my post mysteriously vanished deleted by the hosts :eek:

and my next post regarding the deletion of the post also vanished after 5 replies. :mad: :mad:

Thought if all these OSes could quad boot on a Mac, i could save $$$$ by avoiding generic x86 hardware. If Apple doesn't like putting other Operating Systems on their hardware, why the hell they created Boot Camp :mad: , or are they affraid of Solaris & Ubuntu ?.

What do you think ?.

[ebykm]

Nope CJ, especially when Apple promote i am Mac / Pc adverts. They're infact saying, Our hardware will run anything you throw, be it windows, linux or what ever system supports EFI.

I guess Apple don't mind people using inferior OS on their hardware only to say, hey OS X is beautiful, faster and stable than XP. But comparison between OS X and heavy weights like linux or solaris would make Apple sick, because OS X looses in most tasks. The famous G5 test conducted by AnandTech reveals OS X Server is the culprit behind poor performances on an architecture designed to perform, linux PPC beats Xeons & Opeterons of those days.

[supanatral]

One thing is for the employee not knowing too much about Linux and that's ok. However, to tell me that they can't give me any information on it, I find to be ridiculous.

Since Apple "prides" themselves on the fact that you can now run windows and linux on mac I feel like they are there for the credit of making that possible but walking away when any quesions are thown there way. It's like the person that goes for the party but refuses to help clean up.

[DeltaMac]

Even if Apple makes it possible to load and use a variety of non-Apple operating systems, that doesn't mean they have to provide direct support, or even answer any questions. Why should they?
Apple offers the Boot Camp software, but they don't provide Windows software with that. And, Apple has said from the start of Boot Camp that they will not provide support. They do support in a limited way, by providing install troubleshooting hints, and updating the Windows drivers as needed for the Mac.

Wouldn't it be more productive to go to a Linux support site for assistance with your Mac/Linux install questions? And, there's plenty of Linux users, even on this site, that can supply you with opinions/experiences that can directly relate to your needs.
That would be better than hoping that you will find a Linux/Unix expert at an Apple store. There are some of those, to be sure. And an Apple Genius will have more than a passing knowledge of Unix needed for support of OS X. Read that last sentence carefully - that may mean that someone at an Apple store might have other knowledge, but not used for their job. Apple already has an OS, and they want to continue to sell that.

[supanatral]

It wasn't like I was asking how to fix a linux OS, I was wondering how to simply install it on my mac as well as what architecture to use (x86 or 64 bit). I wasn't looking for an indepth discussion about Linux, just the very basics on how to get to the installer.

If Apple feels so threatened by Linux and/or Microsoft then why provide the means of getting the other OS's to run on macs?

But I must admit that the people on this forum are very knowledable and experienced. These are the people I would trust working on my computer at the apple store.

[DeltaMac]

... If Apple feels so threatened by Linux and/or Microsoft then why provide the means of getting the other OS's to run on macs?


I don't believe that Apple is 'threatened' by another OS, they just don't choose to provide assistance. The only other operating system that Apple has any vestige of support for right now, is MS Windows. Boot Camp doesn't support any other OSes.

I believe it's on supanatral to provide a link to a page at the Apple.com web site that provides any support to run any other OS than Windows (and OS X, of course). Offering for sale software such as Parallels is not what you are talking about. You won't get support for using Parallels, etc, from Apple. You go to Parallels for that support. It would be the same with Linux.

[Natobasso]

Don't be mad, Apple has a large legal team that I'm sure makes them do lots of strange things that seem entirely irrational to the outside world.

[ebykm]

If Apple feels so threatened by Linux and/or Microsoft then why provide the means of getting the other OS's to run on macs?

That's what i'm asking. Remember i posted my question just weeks after they began shipping Core 2 Duo based models. And i didn't ask support for any non-apple OS, but whether someone installed them natively without serious problems (those days, i read some Sun engineer's blog regarding booting Solaris on someones MBP and trying on 20' iMac).

If Apple doesn't like asking such questions, they'd have sent me an email regarding why they deleted my post.... like other forums do. But i didn't get any. I'm mad only because they've deleted my post without any explenation.

Apple always promoted their hardware capable of running multiple OS, even during 68k days... with those minix, a/ux, mklinux, etc....

[supanatral]

Tell you guys what. Lets take a Poll.

Click Here for the Poll (http://macosx.com/forums/opinions-open-letters/294418-apples-service.html)