Dear macosx.com Therapist,

[Trip]

I'm mainly focused around this HS girl thing because for my older siblings (all three) they have met the girl (or guy) of their dreams, grown up together and gotten maried! We're talking girls they met in 6th through 10th grade here! I know chances of this happening a fourth time with me are slim, I know that, but it's still worth a try getting to know people, right?

I have no confidence in myself. Usually I try to get a girl to talk with me instead of me talking with her. I just feel more secure that way and can usually carry on the conversation for a while. I just don't know how to start off a conversation.

Also on the original flirting subject: There's this girl in my language class who i've known for a while now...and she's always talking to me (makes me feel cool) and she keeps asking me things like: "Do you hate me?" or "Do you like sitting by me?" and I usually reply with a: "Erm..." or "Uhhh..." because I don't want to look stupid by saying: "No, I love to sit by you!"

Thoughts?

[Matrix Agent]

Without knowing her personally, I would give you a 65% chance that she is intersted. The other thing that you must watch out for is that those questions are looking for compliments. This could be good or bad. If its good, it means that she just wants your respect and wants to know how you feel about her. If its bad, she could have low self esteem or could be a flirt who is looking for someone to boost their ego.

Never an easy answer, is there?

[edX]

there is little or no doubt in my mind this girl has some kind of interest in you. It would certainly be worth investigating to find out what kind of interest that is. i agree with Phil that this could be a good or bad thing. but in general, girls tend to like being liked, even if they don't feel the same way in return. I have never had a girl hate me for liking her. Just don't turn into a stalker!!

i would caution you though about trying to compare yourself to your syblings. comparing to others is almost always decptive. couples tend to put on different faces for the world than they do with each other. judge yourself by how you feel, not how you think others feel. judge yoursef by what you want and appreciate, not by what others have. the only measure of anything in your life should be your happiness with it.

now, as for the girls in bars issue - learn to recognize the difference between a girl who is genuinely attracted and lounge lizards. yes, lounge lizards are just looking for someone to buy them drinks and hang out with while they decide who they want to go home with or they go somewhere else to meet their boyfriend. they are often spotted licking their lips alot or putting their finger up to their lips. they tend to lean a little too close but back away if you move towards them. they will hang out as long as they feel they are in control or they are ready to move on. they will flip and be gone in a flash if they feel that their victim is in control. typically they have a little too much makeup, wear revealing clothes and never carry a purse or their own money. They tend to go to the bathroom alot. or leave you alone to go talk to their friends in between hustling for drinks. and getting fake numbers is just part of the game. many girls in their late teens and early 20's seem to derive their personal sense of worth by teasing guys. they don't want the intimacy of a relationship or of physical contact. they just want to know that men want them and that they have control over men. sad fact of life - the girls you treat with the least amount of respect and attention will be the ones who continue to seek it from you. girls you get all goo goo over tend to walk all over you and take you for granted.

but like Phil said, there's never a easy answer. there are always exceptions to every rule and always different ways to interpret interactions. in the end, direct communication is the best bet. don't be afraid to ask a girl if she is trying to say what you think she is saying with her actions and words. If she was, she'll be impressed you picked up on it. if not, you'll save yourself any more wasted time and embarrassment by finding out sooner rather than later. There will never be a shortage of available women so don't act like each potential relationship or encounter is some devastating event if it doesn't work out.

that's enough for now i think.

oh, i must add that i have often been jealous of gay guys like Inline guy who can have these great flirtatious relationships with women without them being threatening. but then again, i always remembered that i liked to do more than flirt so....

[Shifting]

Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
now, as for the girls in bars issue - learn to recognize the difference between a girl who is genuinely attracted and lounge lizards. yes, lounge lizards are just looking for someone to buy them drinks and hang out with while they decide who they want to go home with or they go somewhere else to meet their boyfriend. they are often spotted licking their lips alot or putting their finger up to their lips. they tend to lean a little too close but back away if you move towards them. they will hang out as long as they feel they are in control or they are ready to move on. they will flip and be gone in a flash if they feel that their victim is in control. typically they have a little too much makeup, wear revealing clothes and never carry a purse or their own money. They tend to go to the bathroom alot. or leave you alone to go talk to their friends in between hustling for drinks. and getting fake numbers is just part of the game. many girls in their late teens and early 20's seem to derive their personal sense of worth by teasing guys. they don't want the intimacy of a relationship or of physical contact. they just want to know that men want them and that they have control over men. sad fact of life - the girls you treat with the least amount of respect and attention will be the ones who continue to seek it from you. girls you get all goo goo over tend to walk all over you and take you for granted.

you're absolutely right, Ed. and you know, in the back of my mind, i know all this already, but there's always that part of me (the majority) that wants to always give the women the benefit of the doubt. so if i get a fake number, i always assume at first that it's an honest mistake. but i know better....i just enjoy self-delusion. and the thing about not wanting anything more then control, i've thought of that too. i always dismissed it as pessimism on my part, but no, you're right, it does happen, and all too often.

that's the main thing that surprised me about the bar scene, when i first got into it.....it's a warzone. it looks like innocent fun on the surface, yet underneath it's all power struggles, mixed signals and plenty of double standards. the presence of alcohol only makes it that much more chaotic. haha, i guess the key is to deal with that and still have fun, right? that's tough for me, because i'm the guy that goes into every single situation with my mind going in overdrive. but i do manage to enjoy myself once in awhile. and surprisingly, i've managed to actually meet a couple genuinely nice women in my months of working at it. well that surprises me at least, considering how cut-throat the bar scene can be.

but i like older women. in general they're gonna be more serious. i don't mess with younger women if i can help it. older women are tough enough to deal with.

sorry i can't help with the HS stuff, but i never had any luck with girls until after HS. and i'm still learning...we're very lucky that we have an old pro like Ed here to advise us!

[edX]

yea, well, i never had much luck with HS girls either till i was half way thru my senior year. College was better, but i was busy making up for lost time and learning all the things i should have learned in HS. The sooner you start making mistakes, the sooner you get it right. But from age 21 to 31, i spent most of my time in bars. my business required that i be out in bars 5-6 nights a week to make a living at it. i published a local entertainment rag geared towards rock and roll. i learned a lot about women in bars, bar women, and women who just happened to be in a bar. I learned how to figure out where to stand to meet the women the easiest. how to size up a woman and figure if she was real or just a player. of course i had a great teacher at one point - a musician named Fast Fred. Fred taught Ed a lot about how to score which is entirely a different thing than what trip is wanting to know. and you are right - bars are typically warzones. i laughed when i read that cause i knew you had already seen past the 'fun' and into the reality. of course, as long as you realize that, you can still enjoy being a 'soldier' for a few years. once you get that perspective, you have the ability to not let the bar scene engulf you. you keep the control. You can be general in the army rather than a private.

oh, and really want to have some fun one nite - go to a bar and don't drink alcohol. try drinking a pop with a twist of lemon or lime so it looks like a drink. it will give you a whole new perspective. and as you stand at the bar all relaxed, but not swaying, you might even attract a girl who detects "there's something different about you than everybody else" .

funny thing, the relationship i have been in for the past 10 years began in a bar. a divorcee meet market to be exact. I would never have figured it would have turned out like it did the nite we met. so even if i sound a bit cynical about bar slu...i mean babes, i also know that there are still good women to be found there. you just have to get lucky and be willing to do something more than play games yourself. rock and roll is an experience worth having in your life, but it's a rough life to try and live for too long. Hey, the great surprizes are when those phone numbers actually work.

[Shifting]

yeah, it's when you least expect it that you meet someone worthwhile. just like real life.

but yeah, meat market is a good way to describe more "happening" bars. i was just thinking that to myself last friday, when i was clubbing. but i'm sorta jaded, i only go the same clubs, so i only see the same people, generally. though there's always the chance of meeting someone new...

hmm, the "visiting a bar but not drinking" idea of yours sounds interesting. i dunno if i have the self-control for that, though.

yeah, i've seen the reality of it all. can't say i'm too happy about it, but that's life...it's all about adaptation.

well, i'm glad to hear you've got a solid relationship, Ed. a good guy like you deserves no less.

[Matrix Agent]

*Bump*

Com'on this one's interesting....

So whats going on Trip?

[Trip]

Well one thing that's going on is my iBook broke, so my postings to macosx.com are going to be very limited for the next few months until I can dig up some cash to fix the book, on the other hand:

The girl that is interested in me (she told me today) is moving away next month. So I guess it's not a "true love" thing. But I'll enjoy it while I can (you can count on that!)

I've also become a demi-pimp now! I've found the most classical, smart, geneous way to start a conversation with a member of the opposite sex. What is this great thing that I have discovered you ask: 1 word: "Hi". That word with a little hand wave can do wonders! I've had at least 15 interesting conversations with random females that I have never met before in my entire life, and from the looks of it the girls really enjoyed the conversations we had!

Now that I've taken a step on the ladder I can start following your guys advice and keep moving up the ladder!

Comments?
Oh and: Thanks to everybody who has posted so far, it means a lot to me!