Iran: Thoughts?

[ScottW]

I am at a lost of what your point is. Never did I say that the USA was not evil.

[fryke]

Originally Posted by ScottW

Islam countries will expect nothing other than Islam world-wide rule. Any attempt at peace by a non Islam country or group of countries will never succeed.

Not all Islam countries see it that way. Not all muslims think that way. I agree that some (probably too many) do, but I think we should be *very* careful with the wording here. We always make sure to talk about the "Bush administration" and not the USA, so let's not drop all 'em countries into the same soup.

Originally Posted by ScottW

He seems to be in his own little world sometimes...

Yep, and I think it's time someone told him it's *not* his bloody little world to dispose of.

[spb]

Originally Posted by fryke

Well... The first error is the thinking that there's *one* way of democracy.

This isn't exactly what I was getting at.

What I intended was to claim that we've come to this point because of a failure of all western governments over the past 100 years to cultivate a democratic movement in this region. We collectively supported the Shah, Mr. Hussein, the Saudi Monarchy, and the Tailban.

Since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq we now have only one solution. Yes, the way which this invasion occurred is ugly, but we can't let the rebuilding of Iraq fail. If the west fails to leave strong and democratic governments in Iraq and Afghanistan both those living in the region, and those in the west, will suffer. Regardless the resentment toward the Bush administration we have to hope for success.

Originally Posted by fryke

The second (and worse) is the wish to push countries that are simply not ready for it into this

Sorry, but I fundamentally can not believe that the Arabs aren't ready for democracy. When Europe was living in the Christian Dark Ages it was Islam and the Arabs that carried the light of civilization and western philosophy.

In recent years these people have suffered, but mostly because of our influence. Had we (Germany and England) not interfered with the Arabs as part of the second world war and (US and USSR) during the cold war, there is no telling how different the world would look today.

[simbalala]

Originally Posted by ScottW

I am at a lost of what your point is. Never did I say that the USA was not evil.

I figured you'd miss the point.

It's that nothing so much resembles fundamentalist Islam as fundamentalist right wing christian republicans. Depends on where you were born I guess. Sounds like you could go either way, it's just that you were born in the U.S.

[g/re/p]

I have yet to hear about even one fundamentalist right wing christian republican suicide bomber - was there one and i missed it somehow?
I also must have missed the same right winger(s) declaring holy war on the islamists for refusing to convert to christianity.

Damn! I need to get out more.......

[mdnky]

Originally Posted by g/re/p

I also must have missed the same right winger(s) declaring holy war on the islamists for refusing to convert to christianity.

European history books are full of information on once such occurance...it was called the Crusades. There were side reasons for them, but it was a "holy war" more than anything else (at least in the church's mind).

[mrsea]

Everybody spews. Everybody hates. Everybody fights.
Nobody listens. Nobody learns.

[mrsea]

"For as much as many HATE the Bush government, we've come to a point that the only hope is that the new Iraq and Afghanistan grow in strength and security and that there is a domino effect."

If the new democratically elected Palestinian government (Hamas) is any indication of what Bush policy can produce, you don't want that domino effect.