Blasphemous cartoons

[Mikuro]

Originally Posted by Perseus

I am just wondering though: If cartoons were published mocking Christianity, I cant imagine the christians running around burning building and flags.

Probably not, but there would be a cultural equivalent. In America, at least, the crazy Christians have three things that stop them from going to such extremes that the crazy Muslims don't: Luxury, a lack of any real persecution, and a far more well-established and powerful legal system. Take these three things away, and I wouldn't put any of this stuff past the radical Christians in America.

With such differences in economy, politics, society and culture, you can't compare actions on a tit-for-tat basis. The main reason Americans act so much more "enlightened" is because we have the luxury to be, and it's in our best interest. It's certainly not because we're any less evil than anyone else.

[Ynought]

I don't have a lot of time but I will say this, we haven't seen the *prophets* of other religions mocked in a way that I think Muhammad was mocked. You don't see Jesus or Moses dipicted as a killer. It's one thing to mock how people have corrupted a religion, I think quite another to insuate that another's religion is inherantly evil.

Also, it is really not our place to try to qualify the level of anger that muslims should feel. That, to me, is kind of the point. When you do that, you cease to respect the other. A normal person, having unintentionally offended someone would say, 'I'm sorry. I didn't think that would offend you.' If you don't care you say, 'oh well, get over it.'

Also, if Americans (i speak about us because i'm one) we *will* retailate. It may be something like a boycott or an economic riot but we will do what it takes to get the message across. Powerless people are going to exercise the little power that they do have in ways that may not make sense to us.

Also, the freedom of speech argument is a joke. Like Oliver Wendel Holmes said, 'The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic.' I think it's safe to say that the Danes have done at least that.

[CaptainQuark]

Originally Posted by dmetzcher

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who followed one of the world's major religions actually subscribed to the good teachings found within it? Perhaps we wouldn't have war, famine, disease, and sheer lunacy.

A beautiful thought. "Love thy neighbour…" etc. But in reality, religion is little more than another form of the sort of tribalism that leads to genocide in Rwanda.

[bbloke]

Originally Posted by CaptainQuark

A beautiful thought. "Love thy neighbour…" etc. But in reality, religion is little more than another form of the sort of tribalism that leads to genocide in Rwanda.

Mmm, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there. It can lead to those things when hijacked and abused, but the same goes for all sorts of philosophies. The core messages of the faiths are usually very different from what some extremists preach... Both believers and non-believers (of any religion) are human and susceptible to a whole range of flaws, one group or another is not immune. Also, we're very likely to hear of the negative sides to religious groups, rather than the positive sides, as that is what makes for more interesting news. For instance, I see a lot of inter-faith dialog and joint work on charitable causes, instead of faiths being dividing issues.

On a different note, however, things could get a lot murkier now. An Iranian newspaper has decided to have a contest for the best cartoons on the Holocaust...

From News.com.au:

IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," said Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper - which is published by Teheran's conservative municipality.
He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he said.

Ah.

(As much as I find the idea sickening and think this tit-for-tat is just going to make things worse, they do have a perverse point.)

[fryke]

It's not even that perverse, actually. I think it's the _best_ way to show the rest of the world how exactly they _feel_ about it. It may come across as aggressive, but hey: That's the point. Better than blowing up a church or anything else, anyway.

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by dmetzcher

I meant that as more of a joke. I forgot to add the little smilie man.

Forget the smilie. You've got an opinion and I respect that. I may disagree with you, but I like the fact that you are prepared to stick to your guns (if you get my drift), without being hysterical/fanatical/nuts.

Let’s also forget about the Euro trash journalists for a moment.

What really scares the shit out of me is the fact that so many people today are so empowered by cult thinking that they seem to have forgotten how to think for themselves. The irony is that this brainless activity seems to be the reserve of two polarised communities: those with too little wealth/education/opportunities and those with abundant wealth/education/opportunities.

You're poor and you live in a slum in Bradford, Great Britain and all of a sudden some charismatic loser with a distorted, corrupt version of the Koran suddenly makes you feel wanted. You begin to hate anybody who does not follow your beliefs. So you put on an explosive backpack and board a London Undergound train full of children and woman, thinking that if you kill them all you’ll go straight to heaven and spend an eternity with 74 virgins.

Conversely, you’re wealthy, educated and privileged, but so bored and lacking in personality that you become besotted with some charismatic loser, who persuades you to become a born-again Christian evangelist, making you believe that you've already made it to heaven with no effort required. And what’s more, you think you have a God given right to bomb the crap out of any country you think is backward (except if they already have nuclear weapons).

Christ said the meek shall inherit the earth. I am sure He is right. But as it stands now those without imaginaton are in the ascendancy.

[bbloke]

Originally Posted by fryke

It's not even that perverse, actually. I think it's the _best_ way to show the rest of the world how exactly they _feel_ about it. It may come across as aggressive, but hey: That's the point. Better than blowing up a church or anything else, anyway.

Ah, perhaps I should clarify. It does indeed make the point. It does show how something that seems acceptable to one group might be absolutely reprehensible to another. It is just that, to me, this drags in others (i.e. those who have directly or indirectly suffered as a result of the Holocaust), rather than targetting Danes alone. It is also deliberately touching on a very painful event in history for many, in order to get a response. I guess I felt it does make the point, but that, for me, it was quite an indiscriminate and "unkind" way of doing it. I agree that it is arguably better than violent methods, but sometimes the effects of words can be underestimated too.

[CaptainQuark]

Originally Posted by CaptainQuark

But in reality, religion is little more than another form of the sort of tribalism that leads to genocide in Rwanda.

Clarification
Of course what I actually meant was "But in reality, religion has been corrupted to suit the political ends of those with fewer scruples than those religions espouse, until it has become little more than another form of the sort of tribalism that leads to genocide in Rwanda."

Originally Posted by bbloke

… rather than targetting Danes alone.

But it's now gone beyond just the Danes. The French have published it and it's even had its first airing in a British publication… There has been a backlash against anyone "blond-haired and blue-eyed", with even Swedes, who to my knowledge haven't published said images in any publications.

Doodoo –> fan!

According to the Qu'ran, Muslims should respect what they call the "book religions" – Judaism and Christianity – which are of the same Abrahamic root.

Pity that Christians and Jews – or at least the prominent "believers" – don't have the same ideals!