Do Mac users support GW Bush?

[adambyte]

A poll was taken during the 2004 election, and the ONLY European country whose majority of people would have voted for George W. Bush was.... Poland.

[Insert Polish joke here]

[symphonix]

For those of you who would like to oppose George W Bush in a meaningful way. I suggest visiting http://impeachforpeace.org/ to learn about how ordinary citizens working together can force an impeachment hearing. This would mean that once and for all, GW would have to answer before the people for his numerous crimes against democracy and freedom.

The charges to be brought forth in this impeachment memorial are listed here.

• ...set forth that, George W. Bush has intentionally misled the Congress and the public regarding the threat from Iraq in order to justify a war against Iraq ...
• ...has admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of American civilians without seeking warrants...
• ...has admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of American civilians without seeking warrants...
• ...ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to legal counsel, without charge and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention...

This sums up my reasons for hating Bush, along with manipulating election results, playing the media, abandoning the Kyoto protocol, lying to and defying the UN security council, shutting down investigations into illegal spying and wire tapping on US citizens, and escalating the war in the middle east.

Have any of you guys actually looked at a map of the middle east lately? From Afghanistan to Israel the only country that isn't either co-operating fully with the US or occupied by US forces is Iran, and even now the US are trying to invent reasons to go to war with them. In the last five years though, both India and Pakistan have developed nuclear weapons and the White House has stayed silent. As for North Korea and its nuclear ambitions, has anyone bothered to point out that the USA actually *gave* North Korea its two nuclear reactors? Oh, yeah, and here in Australia our EVIL Prime-Minister is insisting we should support action in Iran to stop them building nuclear reactors, while at the same time trying to lobby to get Australia to build nuclear reactors of our own.

I strongly urge my American friends on the boards here to read and consider the evidence and not to be afraid to actually fill in this impeachment memorial. Democracy only works if people speak out through democratic channels. Just writing about it on a forum like this doesn't achieve nearly as much.

And if you feel you have a duty to support your president just on prinicple, you obviously haven't understood how lucky you are to live in a country with democracy and free speech.

[CaptainQuark]

Personally I'd rather just put him up against a wall and have an Iraqi firing squad shoot 'im!

[reed]

Symphonix...........

Well said...however...

Concerning the Non-proliferation Treaty, after Pakistan and India you forgot one other country. Israel. And why? A very dangerous part of the World. No? The White House was not the only one that was "silent" by the way. See site below for the NPT. Iran, on paper, has the right to their nuclear program. In fact the president was Democratically elected. Nutto, I agree, but that is the way the cooky crumbles. Democracy in Iraq is the same. In a word, all that GWB and Tony have put forth for a free world in this region is 90% pure BS. Excuses built on lies. We all know this. I think. So... what do we do now? "The Dye is cast."
All the best.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/

PS Forums are sometimes ways of venting anger and joy and...getting some good information and feedback. Very silly at times, but what the hec.You enter into it or you go elsewhere. Why not? No more, no less.

[symphonix]

Well said Reed. Yeah, I had overlooked Israel - and that is one point which does make me angry, mostly because up until 2000 I actually felt that the Israel / Palestinian conflict might finally be winding down. They'd managed to agree on borders, they'd pretty much stopped (officially) attacking each other, and they were even discussing compensation and disarmament. Under Clinton, the Israelis and Palestinians were ready to start mending fences and ending the blooshed. Now, I really feel that the current US regime is just fuelling the fire. That makes me angry, because its the poor saps on the streets in Israel and Palestine - both sides of the wall - who are going to suffer for it.

And as for my comment that it is better to actually do something constructive than just post on the forums, I certainly believe that discussing this sort of issue on a forum like this is a very good thing. The best way to further the democratic process is to discuss openly with people the issues that we're all worried about. After all, wasn't the first 'democracy' invented in a forum?

[reed]

Yes indeed...
"the poor saps on ( ) ..both sides of the wall-who are going to suffer."
As usual. That's the drama and the trajedy. I always thought the old warriors must "go" for a new generation to create an understanding or at least a compromise. I don't see that with the in-fighting in Gaza and the hard line of the ex (so to speak) Sharon government. It will be up hill all the way.
Also, GWB/Rumsfeld & Co. have chucked so much sand into the geopolitical gears, I think we are in for the long haul. And boy! the fanatics are going to have yet another reason to be just that...fanatic.
As long as we guzzle gasoline and pig out guys like Bush/Cheney,his friends and the like (See Enron. Chapter 10) will always find a way to "protect" OUR interests and make a hefty buck.
I'm going off onto a tangent that I have no idea where it will lead. Sorry
Cheers

[bbloke]

And now, of course, we have news of the triple suicide at Guantanamo Bay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5068228.stm

Originally Posted by BBC

Three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have died in what appears to have been a suicide pact. The inmates, two Saudis and a Yemeni, hanged themselves in their cells.
The camp commander said the deaths - the first at the camp - were planned in "an act of warfare".

Of course, the existence of the camp, the detention without charge and without trial, restriction of access to the inmates, and allegations of bad treatment all undermine any moral highground that is being claimed. If there is any bad PR here, it doesn't suddenly come out of nowhere from this latest news, it has been cumulative...

Looking at how the event is being seen in some areas of the Middle East (and this is of course important to know):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5070952.stm

Originally Posted by BBC

EDITORIAL IN SAUDI ARAB NEWS
The tragedy was just waiting to happen... These deaths reflect the desperation for a basic human need - a need for justice, a need to have someone hear what these incarcerated people have to say, then be duly punished if a crime has been committed or be set free.
Three of the detainees are now gone without ever having seen a court or enjoyed a system of justice that is held so dearly by their captors.

EDITORIAL IN EGYPT'S AL-AHRAM
Washington, which considers itself the sponsor of democracy and human rights in the world, and whose administration, House of Representatives and the Senate adopt sanctions against several countries that it sees as violating democracy and human rights, appears today as the main suspect in the violation of these rights.
This requires it to stop these violations or face a relevant international independent investigation where international and American rules can be applied to it.

EDITORIAL IN PAN-ARAB AL-QUDS AL-ARABI
The US official report on the suicides of the [two] Saudis and Yemeni prisoners in Guantanamo Bay is being met with scepticism by lawyers and international human rights institutions. The prevalent belief is that they died of torture...
The whole world should act and compel the current US Administration to retract from this disgraceful violation of human rights and close the Guantanamo detention centre immediately without delay.

COMMENTARY IN SYRIA'S TISHRIN
Certainly, US President George Bush did not voice his growing concern about the suicide of three detainees in Guantanamo out of sadness about the suicides or because of the tragic situation of those who are still alive 'dead' in this Nazi detention centre. Bush's concern is absolutely about his own situation and the continuously collapsing image of his method, which took him to the bottom figures in US opinion polls.

EDITORIAL IN EGYPT'S AL-JUMHURIYAH
The USA, which styled itself as a sponsor of human rights in the world, has not provided any of these rights to the detainees in Guantanamo or the other secret detention centres. On the contrary, the reports issued by organisations, some of which are affiliated to the UN, are unanimous that the rights of the detainees are being violated and they are being exposed to various kinds of physical and moral torture, including deliberate insulting of their beliefs and disrespecting their heavenly books.

EDITORIAL IN PAKISTANI DAILY PAKISTAN
Fed up with atrocities in the notorious Guantanamo Bay prison, three Muslim prisoners have committed suicide. The question arises here - under such strict security, how did the prisoners get the opportunity to prepare rope and hang themselves with it?
Any impartial international tribunal should carry out a probe of matters at Guantanamo prison so that actual facts can come to the surface.

[fryke]

Yeah, I just guess there's not a _real_ chance that the USA and George W. Bush have to _actually_ stand trial for their crimes against humanity. It's a pity, but the bully rules the playground currently.