Do Mac users support GW Bush?

[fryke]

chemistry_geek: I agree that calling the USA "the bully in the playground" might be a bit off and, well, over-over-simplified, but it also hits a point, I think.

hawki18: And you. (I like how telling someone to start with their _own_ problems is always the first step to hearing the same message a second later...)

[bbloke]

chemistry_geek: I agree with a lot of the sentiments you expressed.

With regards to Guantanamo Bay, I feel that another couple of reasons for the strange labelling of the inmates is so that they do not fall within the usual categories... that is, I believe they aim to be able to do whatever they want to them without "interference," plus... well... they don't really have the evidence to support their suspicions! I believe there are over 460 inmates, and only 10 have been charged. It is sometimes said that the inmates are dangerous fighters or terrorists, and yet many have been detained on flimsy evidence (often just hearsay), rather than being "caught in the act" or something. One really needs to ask: if the evidence is so weak, or non-existent, should they really still be there? These people have been detained for years without charge, without proper access to the outside world, and there are allegations of abuse. This would all cause outrage if practiced on home soil against American citizens, with regards to normal crimes. Also, if not criminals but POWs, then surely they would have to be released and treated well (not tortured etc.) and, importantly, when exactly will the "war on terror" ever be won? Conveniently: never. A perpetual state of fear/alert/war allows a government to clamp down on civil liberties, increase defense spending, and practice all sorts of "preemptive" (hmmm) measures abroad. In short, they get away with things a less fearful public would hopefully never agree to.

One also has to wonder what purpose exactly it serves to incarcerate a 15 year old boy (Mohammed El Gharani) at Guantanamo Bay. He has already tried to kill himself twice. No doubt he is a devious terrorist who is trying to wage a propaganda war.

When chemistry_geek commented on Native Americans waging unconventional war against the European settlers, it reminded me of a couple of things. The Native Americans learned various practices, such as "scalping," from Europeans. Also, more importantly, the revolutionary colonists who founded the current day USA fought a guerilla campaign, they too did not fight conventionally. No doubt the founding fathers would therefore be seen as terrorists of their day...

With regards to fryke's comment about the US being the "bully of the playground," in some ways it is rather strong, but in other ways it is quite fair, alas. There is a long history of events, but I don't think we need to go into it right now, in order to keep the focus of the thread (i.e. the Bush administration's record). I wish George W. Bush was only a well-meaning-but-incompetent leader with a poor grasp of the English language. I am concerned that it is not as innocent as that, though.

hawki18: It is true that other countries (all, in fact!) have their hands dirty and have their own problems. No one is disputing that here. In fact, you will for instance see those in the UK here complaining about the current government. No country can really claim to have the moral high ground. What is sometimes sensed, however, is that there is more jingoism coming from some Americans, and the USA (being a powerful nation) has the potential to do a lot of harm when it is heavy-handed; that is perhaps why people sometimes focus more on US foreign policy. It is true that France sold the nuclear reactors to Iraq. It is also true that the US was a major supporter of Saddam Hussein's regime (not least because he was enemies with Iran), so, if you want to get into this, you might find the US has a dirtier past than you expect. The US is also by far the greatest exporter of arms:

1. US: $18,555m
2. Russia: $4,600m
3. France: $4,400m
4. UK: $1,900m
5. Germany: $900m
6. Canada: $900m
7. China: $700m

But it looks odd when people advocate invasions of other countries, the bombing of far away lands, detention of foreign people without trial, and the like, but then complain that foreigners should not meddle in their affairs. *ahem*

[Rhisiart]

Good post bbloke. I though the UK were higher than most countries (e.g. France). Small comfort however that we are still in the top league.

[bbloke]

Originally Posted by rhisiart

Good post bbloke.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by rhisiart

I though the UK were higher than most countries (e.g. France). Small comfort however that we are still in the top league.

These figures were from 2004, as I didn't have more up to date ones to hand, but they should give a general idea. I'm sure the league table won't invert over the course of one year! Agreed, though, it's rather depressing to see how much Western countries make from the sales of arms, especially as sales are often made to oppressive regimes and areas of conflict.

[reed]

chemistry geek
While I know that "W" has some redeaming qualities, I think that his talents lie elsewhere and not with the Presidency of the United States. I'm not trying to slam him as a human being or politically, but clearly his talents lie in some other arena. I would have the same opinion of a democrat or independent occupying the executive office or other high-ranking government office if he or she displayed these qualities.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but I have to throw this in concerning GWB's "talents lie in some other arena."
Where do you think it is possible that he has talents in another area?
1.University? Dad got him into Yale. He can't even speak English correctly
2. Air Force? AWOL and got out of Vietnam PDQ (like Cheney). Thanks dad.
3. Businessman. Wrong again. Three companies he ran in Texas went flop under his management.
4.Governor. Okay for the death penalty. Murder rate has risen in Texas. Nice try. Otherwise....what did he do in the Lone Star State?
5. Barkeep. Nope. He's off the booze.
6. Preacher? Maybe. "I speak to God"
7. Stand-up comic? Well, he "writes" his own material. Good for starters.
8. Librarian? Doesn't read books.
9. Cowboy. Niet. Can't ride a horse. 4 wheel drive only. Shucks!
10.Advertizing? Well, you have to have some original ideas. But cheating the public may get his foot in the door.
11. As George Carlin once said: "Anybody can become the President of the United States. That's the problem."
So, leave GWB where he is. Our leader. Our light. This the only job he was cut out for.

[ApeintheShell]

I voted for and support President George W. Bush and respect him as a person and man of faith.
Many people in the United States of America are just pissed off because they feel their rights are being taken away. One of these rights is gay marriage.
They see the Christian communities involvement in certain issues as a threat and blame everything associated with the Bush Administration on them regardless of the issues. Everyone here talks about being open and embracing each others beliefs but when it comes to Christians ideas and beliefs they are up in arms.
To comment on all Holy Books are the same, http://www.iamnext.com/spirituality/texttest.html, here is an interesting read about the subject.

Here are some other reasons why Americans are pissed off: higher gas prices, higher taxes, unemployment rate, illegal immigration, gay marriage, christian texts and symbols taken down, and many other things.

As much as a I appreciate the help from people in other countries with my mac; I don't think their opinions matter on whether they support our President or not.

[g/re/p]

Bush is an incompetent idiot - and the opinions of people from other countries about bush DO matter, because his actions effect more than just the people of the USA.

You will probably get some flames over that statement.

[hawki18]

Reed

Typical French superior to everyone else statement, next time France finds it self in troub in trouble don't call us like ww1 and 2