World Cup 2006 - Page 15

**fryke** · #**113** July 3rd, 2006, 12:13 PM

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

reed · #**114** July 3rd, 2006, 01:27 PM

There was a guy on the radio here (obviously thinking the French would win against Brazil) who said, "why doesn't the Argentine Team wait a day or two, that way the Brazilian team can share the same flight back. Saves a lot of money."
Times are tough during the World Cup.
An Italian friend here is busting balls in the local café. "Italy vs Portugal" for the final.
The barkeep, Bernard,the Frenchman who said France will go to the demi-finals, says...."how much do you want to bet?" So far no cash. Only a Kir or a coffee. Germany/France all the way. And Bernard insists: "And we will beat them in their home country!" Who knows. In any case he has been correct since the beginning.
The "Portos" here can swing in any direction seeing how they are many who are French citizens. A good buddy here, José, keeps saying, "hey, may the best team win." However, I know he has stocked a few bottles just in case.... hoping "they" beat the French.

mw84 · #**115** July 3rd, 2006, 01:33 PM

Well, for a start he was pulled back by Carvalho before he stepped on his balls, which I don't think was either intentional or the reason he was sent off. I personally think he got sent off for pushing Ronaldo.

The red card was deserved, I'm not saying it wasn't, the thing that irritates me is that the entire thing had nothing to do with Ronaldo, there was no need to come over and provoke Rooney like he did and it was obvious he knew what he was doing, he even gave a little wink to towards the bench just after Rooney had been sent off.

Rhisiart · #**116** July 3rd, 2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

People here are obviously disappointed, but there are still a fair number of flags flying. It is comparatively recently that the English have felt it is OK to fly the [English] flag (St. George's Cross).

If I were an Englishman, I would fly the flag with pride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

David Beckham is indeed stepping down as captain, and I have mixed feelings. I think he has done well over the years, and he certainly is a skilful player.

I agree. He has his critics, but he is a workhorse like Gerrard (although of course they are very different players) and I think he has matured immensely over the years. To say that England played better with Lennon after Beckham left the field is like comparing apples and pears. Lennon and Beckham would work very well together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

Eriksson has brought mixed reactions. He has not filled me with confidence, and his style does not always seem to fit well with the English style, but I was surprised to learn he had the best record of any England manager. He did lead England to victory over Argentina (in the 2002 World Cup) and also was manager when England beat Germany 5-1 (in Germany). Then again... he was coach when England recently lost 2-1 to Northern Ireland (!), so it is hard to know what to make of it all!

You may be right, but I think he lost the plot in this World Cup. Conspiracy theorists would argue that he gave up on England a long time ago after persistent press intrusion, and really didn’t care whether England did well in this competition or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

England only started to show their proper character in their final match when Rooney was sent off and when Beckham was off the pitch, it's true. Hopefully it was a coincidence (i.e. that Beckham and Rooney were not holding England back somehow), or that it was simply England coming out fighting when the chips were down.

I think Lennon made a big difference. However, that should not detract from Beckhams's important contribution in the England side. It was the crazy strategy of leaving Rooney on his own that fecked up the game. Curiously, Crouch proved better at holding the ball (with excellent ball control) than Rooney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

Other issues aside, England just never really caught fire and didn't play well enough. They underachieved, basically; they did not play like we know they could, and the nation is left asking itself why. People are questioning the formations, the management, the captain, the choice of the squad, the injuries and fitness levels, the media, and the abilities of the players (and all English players vs. Continental players in general). I hope a witch hunt won't ensue, it would be more helpful to just know where we've been going so wrong for years. Like I said before, I think Spain and The Netherlands are two other nations who sadly don't quite manage to do as well as they should.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbloke

Mmmmmm:

World Cup 1990: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
Euro 1996: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
World Cup 1998: Round 2, lost to Argentina on penalties
(World Cup 2002: Quarter-Finals, OK, lost to Brazil "normally")
Euro 2004: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties
World Cup 2006: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties

This is getting annoying!

Well try being a Welsh soccer supporter. You think you've got it bad!

World Cup 1990: Failed to qualify
Euro 1996: Failed to qualify
World Cup 1998: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2002: Failed to qualify
Euro 2004: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2006: Failed to qualify

Rhisiart · #**117** July 3rd, 2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryke

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

Yes, but for recklessness, rather than violent conduct. I don't think Rooney did what he did out of spite. He was over zealous, but not malicious.

bbloke · #**118** July 3rd, 2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryke

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

I don't think you should make it sound like anyone who disagrees with you is crazy...

If it was a deliberate stamp, then he absolutely deserves to be sent off for it and disciplined. There is no place for that sort of thing in the game and he would get no sympathy from me. If it was not deliberate, then he doesn't deserve any disciplinary measures at all.

Opinion is divided. At the time, I was astonished by the red card, and everyone was outraged, assuming it was for a minor push (especially as I remember a Portguese player shoving Ashley Cole over, in the back, once he knew he wouldn't get the ball, but he didn't get the slightest reprimand). When people started to think it was about the "stamping" (and the referee did not react towards Rooney or produce any cards until after the push), people genuinely were not sure whether it was deliberate or not. It just isn't a cut-and-dried thing.

I suggest you look at the slow motion replay. Rooney was being harassed for some time in the build up to that, and he was fouled right under the referee's nose. Nothing was done. He kept getting knocked down but was being honest and kept trying to get up. When he made the contentious move, he had been fighting for his balance for awhile and his eyes were forward, not looking at the player behind him. I therefore feel he was trying to get up and battle on, not attack a player right next to the referee. Sure, I could be wrong, but that is my honest belief now and was then too. I also feel that if Rooney lost his cool and intended to lash out... erm... he would have done a more proper job of it!

If you saw the match, you will also have seen Ronaldo very early on "headbutt" (with little force) Rooney in the back of the head and say something to him which didn't look pleasant. After Rooney was sent off, you will also see Ronaldo give a wry wink to the sidelines and pursed lips. All very innocent? He has had a reputation in the UK for cheating beforehand (while playing for Manchester United... nothing to do with games against England), and this certainly will not have helped. I do not think Ronaldo single-handedly threw England out of the World Cup or anything like that (see my earlier posts), but I do consider him to generally be a cheating little ****.

bbloke · #**119** July 3rd, 2006, 02:22 PM

I've just noticed that Rooney has now commented, by the way:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...06/5141510.stm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

"I want to say absolutely categorically that I did not intentionally put my foot down on Carvalho," said Rooney.

The 20-year-old added: "I bear no ill feeling to Cristiano but am disappointed he chose to get involved."

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

"I remember the incident clearly and have seen it several times since on TV," he said.

"I am of the same opinion now as I was at the time that what happened didn't warrant a red card. If anything, I feel we should have had a free-kick for the fouls committed on me during the same incident.

"If you ask any player - and indeed almost any fan - they will tell you that I am straight and honest in the way I play.

"From what I've seen in the World Cup, most players would have gone to ground at the slightest contact but my only thought then was to keep possession for England."

bbloke · #**120** July 3rd, 2006, 02:57 PM

Quote: