Is the Israeli repsonse to Hezbollah excessive?

[ora]

Great work bbloke!

For good background I heartily recommend the iron wall by Avi Shlaim, a very astute Israeli historian who is critical of both sides and presents a pretty balanced view given the inflammatory nature of the subject.

I also very much enjoyed Israel/Palastine: how to end the war of 1948 by Tanya Reinhart, another Israeli. She gives an excellent account of the issues and shows how officials on both sides have actively worked against peace, rather working to further their own power and influence. Reinhart has a website with more info and some articles here, plus i see she has a new book on the subject which I'm off to order now.

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by ora

Great work bbloke!

Yes, a very impressive list of sources. Much food for thought amongst them.

Originally Posted by ora

For good background I heartily recommend the iron wall by Avi Shlaim, a very astute Israeli historian who is critical of both sides and presents a pretty balanced view given the inflammatory nature of the subject.

This sounds interesting too.

I think what is so frustrating is that we're virtually powerless to do anything about the situation. We elect our politicians to formulate sound foreign policies and to apply pressure in regions where cultural hatred gets out of control.

Yet a significant number of contributors to this forum come from two countries that behave as arrogantly as the Israelies.

We can hardly lecture the Israelies or Hezbollah on restraint when you have someone like Donald Rumsfeld arrogantly using terms such as ‘Strike and Awe’ as his war planes bomb the living crap out of Baghdad (with the full backing of my country's politicians).

[bbloke]

Thanks, guys.

Originally Posted by rhisiart

I think what is so frustrating is that we're virtually powerless to do anything about the situation. We elect our politicians to formulate sound foreign policies and to apply pressure in regions where cultural hatred gets out of control.

I think this frustration applies to much of politics in the West. Many feel they vote and then don't get what they voted for, or that "they're all the same." This can lead to people becoming disenfranchised with politics and politicians. I think when people no longer feel listened to and feel they have no political means to express themselves, things become Bad. Mmm, I sense a parallel with the theme at hand!

Originally Posted by rhisiart

Yet a significant number of contributors to this forum come from two countries that behave as arrogantly as the Israelies.

I'd go along with that in general terms, but there are some areas where I think Israel is on particularly shaky ground. I think some Western countries are indeed guilty of major arrogance and tend to invade and overthrow who they want to and whenever they want to. At the same time, though, I think Israel goes a bit further and sometimes approaches "ethnic cleansing," which is more serious in my view.

Originally Posted by rhisiart

We can hardly lecture the Israelies or Hezbollah on restraint when you have someone like Donald Rumsfeld arrogantly using terms such as ‘Strike and Awe’ as his war planes bomb the living crap out of Baghdad (with the full backing of my country's politicians).

I'd broadly agree, but then again I think one could live in the West and still thoroughly disapprove of both Western and Israeli actions.

A lot of all this is about point of view. "Freedom fighter" or "terrorist?" "Liberation" or "invasion?" "Self protection" or "aggression?"

[reed]

Speaking of points of views and there are many, many. Remember: "police action," "border conflicts," "cross frontier insurrections" "regional tinderboxes" "protective reactions," and "heated exchanges?"
One thing is sure, as G. Bush Sr. once said: "we are in big doodoo." For the moment anyway.

[Convert]

I guess it depends on perspective. If I was a relative of one of the soldiers missing I'd probably want all hell to break loose to get him/her back. But then it looks like some kind of excuse here to be honest, I'm not saying that people are war mongers or something, but Israel has a reason to do something, even the US realises that, thus Bush's refusal to call for a cease fire.

But it's war, right? It's just a f*cking war, another one, full of idiots, the smart guys are the ones on the ground. Why can't the people who decide these f*cking things get hurt, so then they may realise how bad war can be. I don't think they get it. Bombing the crap out of civilians won't get you your soldiers back. Stop the fighting now, they know how powerful Israel is, maybe they'll negotiate. The sad thing is that more Israeli soldiers have died trying to save these soldiers... and so have more civilians.

[reed]

Indeed Convert.
It's the ratio that pisses me off the most. I just don't get it and I never will.
Let us hope things will cool down....but I don't see it for the moment.

[lilbandit]

What about this?http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-mobile.php?p=1440&more=1

[hawki18]

There is no G Bush SR. There middle names are not the same.