Mac Vs. PC - Page 4

**fryke** · #25 September 7th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Well, yes, but as I've said, that's the OS' doing. I don't deny Mac OS X' superiority, if you re-read my post.

spgmr2005 · #26 September 7th, 2006, 12:04 PM

Dudes...i'm only a 19-year-old "kid" and I don't really care about the whole Mac v. PC debate. I've used PCs my entire life and they've worked just fine. I just want to switch because a Mac is something totally new to me, and I'll know that I'll have a great experience. I'm just sayin'...use what you're good at, and if you happen to be "too good" at it, then just try something new. Expand your horizons. Thats what I'm doing.

nixgeek · #27 September 7th, 2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spgmr2005

Dudes...i'm only a 19-year-old "kid" and I don't really care about the whole Mac v. PC debate. I've used PCs my entire life and they've worked just fine. I just want to switch because a Mac is something totally new to me, and I'll know that I'll have a great experience. I'm just sayin'...use what you're good at, and if you happen to be "too good" at it, then just try something new. Expand your horizons. Thats what I'm doing.

I have to admit that's a pretty good perspective to have when it comes to computers. I use Mac OS X, Mac OS 9 and earlier, Windows, and various distros of Linux. I've even given NetBSD a try (when I tried to install it on my Quadra 650) as well as PC-BSD and FreeBSD for a short while. I might take another shot at FreeBSD sometime soon. And the wonderful thing about the open source operating systems is that they can run on other platforms, not just x86. I've already installed Ubuntu and Debian on my PowerPC based Macs and they run great. I'm also thinking about giving NextenaOS a try as well but probably once I'm more familiar with *BSD.

I've also used BeOS and it was my main OS for a while before it went down the tubes.

Long story short, it's always good to try new systems...you learn more about the good and bad of each system for yourself in order to make a more educated decision.

Rhisiart · #28 September 7th, 2006, 07:36 PM

I started with Windows in 1995 and it was OK. I was introduced to Macs by a medical research director in 1999, who suggested that in order to save time, you need a relatively stable system. He suggested that Apple was the best of the worst (pre-OS X era, when lets face it, freezes occurred all too often).

If I was stuck with Windows now (Vista, whatever) with no alternative, I feel it would be equivalent to doing the laundry - essential but dull.

Viro · #29 September 8th, 2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spgmr2005

Dudes...i'm only a 19-year-old "kid" and I don't really care about the whole Mac v. PC debate. I've used PCs my entire life and they've worked just fine. I just want to switch because a Mac is something totally new to me, and I'll know that I'll have a great experience. I'm just sayin'...use what you're good at, and if you happen to be "too good" at it, then just try something new. Expand your horizons. Thats what I'm doing.

Someone once said that the best way to tell how good a computer is would be to use it in anger. The reason for that is simple.

When you're using a computer and you're not stressed, you tend to look at the bright side of things and you put up with the little annoyances, so much so that you don't notice them anymore. On the other hand, if you're using it under extreme stress and you just can't be arsed about how "cool" the computer is, and only want to get your work done, any annoyance will jump straight out at ya, and make you want to smash that computer to bits. That's the "use it in anger" test.

From my experience, Windows doesn't hold up under the use it in anger test. This is from my experience as an undergraduate, 4 weeks before my B.Sc dissertation was due. Linux does better, but Macs are way ahead of the curve, in my experience.

edit: Feel that I should elaborate more what I mean, as most of what I've said sounds rather nebulous. Below are some of the things that I remember completely and utterly annoyed me when I used PCs in stress, with comparisons of how they hold up to Mac OS X.

1) Message boxes.
How many times have you seen an [OK, Cancel] message box on Windows? This is a real annoyance as it forces you to read the entire content of the message box before making a decision. This isn't a big deal normally, but when you are tired and under stress, mistakes are very likely to happen as you won't read the message text or incorrectly understand what it says. Worse are the [Abort, Retry, Ignore] ones. It isn't immediately obvious to the user what each of those buttons will do. Will abort make me lose my work? Will Retry/Ignore cause the computer to crash, making me lose even more work? What?

Contrast this with how things are done on the Mac. You do not ever see an [OK, Cancel] message box, if those applications are adhering to Apple's guidelines. For example, what you will see when closing an unsaved document is the following buttons [Don't Save, Cancel, Save] with Save being a pulsing blue. Each button makes it immediately clear, what action will result from clicking on the button. This is in stark contrast with Windows message boxes, where it isn't immediately obvious what clicking a button will do, forcing you to have to read the text in the message box (which can sometimes be highly cryptic!!).

2) Applications stealing focus.
I usually run many applications at once. A typical work scenario is I get some neural net simulation running, switch to another application (Word, Mail, etc) and start typing away. What happens with my simulation finishes? Under Windows, what's most likely to happen is an application that has completed its task will jump to the foreground, taking the keyboard focus from the user. This is bloody annoying, as I type at about 100 wps, meaning that about 4 - 5 words would have been typed into the wrong application before I realize what's happened. What's worse, you've got many of apps hidden in your status bar(? The one next to the clock) and these periodically jump to the foreground too, like anti-virus apps, spyware detectors, etc. when they perform their scheduled tasks. Do they need to steal the focus when they are running their scheduled tasks? No! Do I need to know that they're doing their scheduled task? No! Just do the task in the background!

How is this different on the Mac? If the app isn't poorly coded (i.e. a half-@$$ed port from Windows) it will make use of notifications correctly. What does this look like? By bouncing the applications icon in the dock, and not stealing focus from the current application. This allows the user to continue working in the current app. More importantly, it places control back in the users hands. The user gets to decide when they switch applications, instead of having the application decide. It's like when you work in an office. Would you rather see people when you're ready for them, or would you like people to just jump into your office whenever *they* are ready?

3) Wizards
Microsoft loves wizards. This is really exhibited with their 7 - 8 step wizards, for simple things like creating documents from templates, and setting up Wireless networks. Why are these annoying? Imagine trying to do something when you are short of time and just need to get it done ASAP. Wizards bombard you with information you do not need, and they take many more mouse clicks to get done. Admittedly, I didn't use many applications that made extensive use of wizards, but it was still annoying when they did turn up. I remember one wizard that really really pissed me off, but I can't remember what it was for, nor which application it was from.

4) The awful taskbar
What's the taskbar there for? It's there to allow you quick access to the applications you are currently running. To make that easier, Microsoft decided to make the size of application in the task bar vary, depending on how many applications are running at once. Not only that, the default behavior of the task bar on Windows XP is to group similar applications together.Of course, users stupid so you can't trust them to do such a simple task well. Instead, Windows will decide for the user when an application has opened enough windows to warrant them being grouped together. In all its wisdom, Microsoft decided that keeping the size of applications, and their position in the task bar was bad for usability. Apparently, there's a usability law somewhere which dictates that users need to be kept on their toes by constantly resizing and repositioning of applications in the task bar. Surely, the computer must make them take their eyes off their work, make them examine all the windows in the taskbar to pick out the application they are after. Remind them that the computer is there, it's not going away, and it's in control. The user? Pfeh. Inconsequential.

The Macs on the other hand aren't too much better. The Dock is an improvement in that regard, as common applications can be dragged and kept in the dock. However, the dock still resizes when you run applications that aren't already in the dock. This means that the absolute position of the icon moves. Not nearly as much as with the Windows taskbar, but still enough for you to hit the wrong icon if you aren't paying attention.

Phew. Don't ever let me rant again. I'm sure if I booted up a Windows XP machine and had to use it while a deadline was near, I'd come up with more annoyances. I've forgotten most of them after not having used windows since 2002

shresblo_h2o · #30 September 8th, 2006, 02:04 AM

The latest Macs are basically Premium PC's.

PC had the initial idea to upgrade to use USB but Mac beat 'em to it cos M$ wouldn't spend the cash to kickstart the change.

PC had the idea to upgrade their PC's from BIOS to EFI Firmware but once again wouldn't spend the cash needed to get the ball rolling. Once again Mac took the idea, ran with it and you now have the intel macs.

Macs run Windows better than PC's do.

oceanicitl · #31 September 8th, 2006, 04:43 AM

LOL I like it. Thanks to Viro and shresblo for your comments. Happy damn Fridayyyyyyy!

Rhisiart · #32 September 8th, 2006, 05:35 AM

Viro. Intersting summary of Mac vs Pc.

Just a couple of points about the Mac Dock.

At the risk of ranting yet again over this issue, I really wish Apple would make the Dock lockable (i.e. you can only remove an icon by holding down ALT as you slide it out of the Dock).

Too many times I have accidently removed icons from the Dock (I get around this now with TransparentDock, which locks the Dock, but you have to keep loading the programme to make any changes to the Dock, which is a friggin drag).

Secondly, I would like app windows that have reduced to the Dock to keep their names visible at all times, not just when you hover the mouse of the icon.

If I have many apps open and some windows are resting in the dock, I'd like to see their names so I know which one to click to reopen it. Currently you have to hover the mouse over each one until you find it.

There, I've got that off my chest.

Apple, are you listening?