Racial profiling

[billbaloney]

Originally Posted by rubaiyat

I take it you have read the Koran?

I have a copy here in my bookshelf, and studied it in college under a Pakistani professor that I stayed friends with for years afterwards, during which time we often discussed issues of Islam and politics.

And your interpretation is that of a crazy frickin' Islamophobic freakshow, thus my "crazy freak alert".

Perhaps you'd like to talk about the concept of "people of the book", as one example of how you're completely wrong about textual Islam's treatments of non-Muslims, which itself complicates the claim of some kind of textually-based violence against the non-Muslim.

[...takes out book...]

Let's see. Surah 3, verse 69:

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an),
Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures),
And the Sabians and the Christians --
Any who believe in Allah
And the Last Day,
And work righteousness --
On them shall be no fear,
Nor shall they grieve."

Well. Certainly open to interpretation, isn't it? Next, read up on the property rights of married women in original Islamic society.

There's plenty of good and bad in the Qur'an, just as in the Bible. There is plenty of material for those who want to use the book as an excuse for violence. I wonder if we can think of examples of violent misinterpretation of the Bible. Hmm, let's think about the last two thousand years....

[Rhisiart]

There does seem to a strong belief amongst Christian fundamentialists that Islam is inherently evil. I think they refer to some passage in in the Book of Revelations, about the emergence of an evil religion in the last days.

Perhaps the evil religion in the last days is fundamentialim per se, regardless of whether is is Jewish, Christian, Hindu or Islamic in origin.

[fryke]

Only if you want the revelation to be, well, right.

[rubaiyat]

Sura IX 29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last day,
Nor hold that forbidden Which hath been forbidden By God and His Apostle, Nor acknowledge the Religion Of Truth (even if they are) Of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya With willing submission And Feel themselves subdued.

Sura XLVIII 29 Mohammed is God's Apostle those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.

Jihad's struggle against sin and "evil" is not separated from the physical struggle against non believers and is often quoted as such by the many Islamic authorities who support explicitly or implicitly Islamic terrorists.

The Koran is in marked contrast to the New Testament, Buddhist teachings, Bahaii teachings and many other creeds in its exhortation to violence and its rejoicing in violent victory over other faiths.

This is what leads Islamic scholars to their two faced approach to the west. Telling non-muslims what they'd like to hear and telling muslims who know the Koran the opposite.

You can understand any more moderate opinions are kept private as it is tantamount to a death sentence.

I know it is fashionable to condemn the Crusades, I won't hail them as holy, but how were they different to the Muslim conquests that preceeded them?

It is just another part of the huge hypocracy of muslims who have long memories for slights against them but dismiss as not even relevent their own bloody history. Their indignation against supposed "oppression" in the modern world stands in marked contrast to their deeds in Armenia, the Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, East Timor, the Celebes, Irian Jaya, Kenya, Tanzania, Argentina, Bali, Jakarta etc. The list goes on and on. Their lack of indignation against the oppression they exact against each other truly reveals their hypocracy. A finer collection of despotic and repressive regimes would be hard to find.

Osam bin Laden and his many supporters in the Islamic world have merely adopted the circular logic and self righteously murderous oppression of the communists they fought in Afghanistan.

btw You are jumping to absurd conclusions to assume I am either a fundamentalist Christian or an extremist. Because I am neither I value my liberties and am dismayed at the absolutism of Islam and the apologetic kowtowing to it by the "politically correct".

Nothing new there, both Communists and Nazis had their fellow travellors clearing the path for them.

PS I actually started off my study of Islam as highly sympathetic but the closer my examination of all the problems that beset it, my opinion changed. My conclusion is the problems of Islam are of its own making. The notion of conquering the world and taxing the non-believers foundered when they ran out of conquests and unbelievers willing to submit as second class citizens.

[billbaloney]

Oh my goodness.

Here's the truth, big guy: I think it's safe to say that every regime that has conquered and ruled over wide swaths of humanity has been cruel, and has had its kindnesses. There was not one monolithic "Islamic empire" that ruled Asia and parts of Europe for centuries; in fact, there were several, each with its own power base, regional differences, and peculiarities. Some were better than others, just like the empires in China, Rome, India, Athens, the United States...you name it.

N.b., as well, that I said, "your interpretation is that of a crazy frickin' Islamophobic freakshow," and didn't make any claim about who you actually are. I have absolutely no desire to find out any more about you, tell you the truth.

I'm really, really impressed at your sweeping conclusions, your incisive contribution to religious study, and your analysis of the current geopolitical situation. As you well know, those who spend their time making grandiose claims about entire religions, races, ethnicities, or nations, especially on bulletin boards, are almost always right and helpful.

Sweet. You're definitely going to write back, which is why I promise not to read this thread any more. Bye!

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by billbaloney

Sweet. You're definitely going to write back, which is why I promise not to read this thread any more. Bye!

Adios amigo.

Five Voltaire quotes:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Well to a point, I guess.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."

Well, I think we can all agree on that one.

"If there were only one religion in England (sic) there would be danger of despotism; if there were two they would cut each other’s throats. But there are thirty, and they live in peace and happiness."

Of course that that wouldn't have gone down too well with Ulster politician Enoch 'Rivers of Blood' Powell. Despite the fact that he was a bigoted racist fecker, his predictions seem to have come to true.

(And for fryke): "Judge of a man by his questions, rather than by his answers."

(And for rhisiart):"A witty saying proves nothing."

[reed]

Ever been in Mississippi or Ohio on a hot day? I won't even mention Florida.

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by reed

Ever been in Mississippi or Ohio on a hot day? I won't even mention Florida.

Over my head M. Reed. Commenter SVP.