Does Britain suck?

[rubaiyat]

MrTAToad, exactly how old are you?

Can you remember the disastrous economic hole Britain had dug itself into after the war? Britain had long relied on its ability to monoplise trade with its Empire to prop up its decrepid industries. Once it lost the Empire and actually had to compete it fell flat on its face.

Only by entering and getting access to the European market and subsequently reforming itself (plus discovering North Sea oil) did it get back to the relative prosperity it enjoys today.

For the sake of Britain I hope your silly prejudices never take hold in main stream politics. You may be dragging the chain in Europe to the annoyance of all the other countries, but without Europe you may as well be dragged out into the Atlantic and sunk.

Not such a good move as the oil slick from your fast food would be a major ecological disaster washing up on the shores of Brittany for months. :P

[MrTAToad]

Can you remember the disastrous economic hole Britain had dug itself into after the war?

Nope - not that old. However, I do believe the loan repayments to America
were rather steep, and we've only just finished paying them.

Are you a native of the UK - if so, you would know how much we pay into the EU and how little we get out of it ? Or another hysterical person from the continent ?

[monktus]

I don't mean to be offensive here, but this is exactly the "Little Englander" attitude I was talking about. Britain both pays into the EU as it is a comparitively rich country, and receives funds for specific projects such as regional development, although not as much as it used to. IIRC, it also gets a special rebate that Thatcher negotiated in the 80s. We actually get a lot of concessions to keep us happy, and that's why there is sometimes resentment from other EU countries.

I for one am quite happy for some of my taxes to go to helping to develop the economies of our new partners in the likes of Poland, Lithuania, Romania and Bulgaria. We've done well out of all the skilled labour that comes over to work in our country because the natives are too lazy.

As I've also said previously, the EU is not perfect of course. Scotland especially gets a raw deal over fishing, and there are many other inneficiencies and problems that are a nuisance, however it is a small price to pay for being part of the world's largest free trade area.

[reed]

where is Bbloke when you need him?
Keynes said "nothing is free," or was it Milton Friedman? One thing is sure the UK is always going to pay. But don't worry...the USA is paying hard cash now and for the future....not futures. It will get even better "all the time" as the Beatles once sung. Chuck rocks at yourselves....the Chineses are lapping it up.

[rubaiyat]

I am neither British nor European but am well aware that Britain does well out of the EU. It is Germany that has to do most of the heavy lifting and France that sucks up most of the agricultural subsidies. Not that any of the many English farmers I have met, ever complained about the subsidies they got.

As monktus has rightly stated, a lot of money goes to improve the poorer countries in Europe which is an excellent idea and has stabilised governments and economies throughout the region. Those countries are British customers so the benefit comes full circle.

If you studied British history you will know the enormous amount of money and human lives it has wasted in European wars. To spend only a fraction of that in ensuring Eurpean peace seems an excellent investment.

But then small minds are ever self obsessed and short sighted.

[reed]

Not to mention wars in Ireland, South Africa and other interesting far away places. English history is well read and understood. But you are not alone. The only thing now is you are paying the price. It was good THEN...."it no good now." The City is doing very well (may well out-do Wall Street) but who will run the show in a few years?
European peace is now and forever. The wars are over. What is not at peace is ECONOMICAL peace.
One only invests if one can get a return. Period.

[MrTAToad]

I certainly have studied British history, which does seem to be missing from todays school time-table. Indeed, the very city I live in was founded by the Romans - and the city walls are still here - unfortunately messed up by the Victorians, but you cant have everything.

In addition, when Shippams left, an archaeological was performed when the building demolished - apparently the finds were quite interesting.

A lot of the resentment comes from the fact that the EU is basically corrupt and undemocratic. CAP is a fertile area for corruption and mis-managment.

And then you've got the weird EU rules (or would have if we had decided these rules were enforcable) :

Bananas must not bend abnormally
Bananas should be at least 5.5in long and 1.05in round
Peaches below 2.2in diameter must not be sold between July and October
Carrots must be 0.75in wide, apart from baby carrots

I see nothing but trouble with the EU - whilst it may not lead to a war, but it could lead to some pretty tense situations. And if you cant see that, then you are more short-sighted than Mr Magoo.

England would be much better outside the EU, both financially and politically.

[rubaiyat]

"England would be much better outside the EU, both financially and politically."

Fantasy. Pure fantasy.

AS for the rest I think the problem you have is Europe is metric and the English despite supposedly having converted, true to form haven't finished the job. You wouldn't know how big your fruit was as long as it was duely processed to remove all flavor and nutrition.

"the EU is basically corrupt and undemocratic"

Bit rich coming from a country that still doesn't elect its upper house and has a first past the post voting system that ensures what voting does take place is totally distorted. And for how many years had the Queen and her family surreptitiously exempted themselves from paying taxes, despite being the richest family in the land?

But then these are the "Natural" forms of corruption and undemocratic government!