Does Britain suck?

[rubaiyat]

You get to vote for the European Parliament, that is if you bother.

The complaint that the Executive is unelected is a circular argument.

You use it as an argument against a European constitution, which would give you the right to vote for the Executive.

As a result you are insisting on an unelected Executive, so that you can lambast it for being undemocratic.

etc etc.

[monktus]

Originally Posted by rubaiyat

There are a lot better methods than straight proportional representation. If you saved that year and a half of schooling and were less parochial you could study up on them.

Actually the Scottish Parilament is elected by the additional member system, which is a hybrid of FPTP and PR. I think it works quite well in that it's more representative, however it does pretty much require coalition (it was put in place to make it harder for the SNP to get a majority). The Scottish council elections are using Single Transferable Vote for the first time, not sure about Wales/NI.

[rubaiyat]

We have several sophisticated voting innovations in the ACT.

First is the secret ballot, developed in Victoria, which removed the bribery and corruption endemic in voting and now is virtually universal around the world.

Second is compulsory voting which avoids all possibilities of stacking and manipulation of votes.

Third is the preferential voting system, another Australian innovation, which means that a voter need not concern themselves their vote will be wasted because they chose a smaller political group. Basically it is an elimination system. The vote of failed candidates is redistributed to the next preferred candidate until one candidate achieves a majority.

Fourth is the rotating ballot paper which eliminates the donkey vote. No one candidate has all the ballot papers with their name at the top so gathering up the lazy (or donkey) vote.

Fifth is the absence of party names on ballot papers and the banning of political parties from approaching closer than 100m to voting booths. This (in theory) is to make voters research and make decisions based on the candidates' qualities. As I said this is the theory. The practice is different, people bring in their own "How to vote sheets" into voting booths. All the law can do is forbid them to leave them in the booths.

Sixth is the Hare-Clarke or multiple-candidate seat (invented in Tasmania) which is the ideal combination of proportional and representational voting. The pool of candidates is eliminated preferentially till the allocated 4-5 candidates is elected. This usually ensures you have a candidate who represents your view in your electorate. It also gives a much better chance for independents to get in.

This system has been put into effect to give the fairest and most representative system. We look on the disastrous and clumsy systems in place around the world and wince. Especially the American and British systems which supposedly are the homelands of democracy and instead are effectively "managed" democracies.

The only step we have not yet completed is the achieving of a republic and the elimination of the monarchy. This was mainly due to the macinations of our present prime Minister who made sure we had Hobson's choice when it came to the vote.

Despite Australians' being overwhelmingly for a Republic, the vote was rejected because we were not offered the option of an elected President in the model of Ireland's President.

Does this give us better candidates or candidates who are not just rich or from elite groups? Can't say it succeeds 100% but it certainly works against the manipulations of the politicians and gives smaller parties and popular independents a chance.

Oh and I forgot the most important of all is the independent Electoral Commission. This ensures the electoral laws are enforced and gerrymanders are avoided by redrawing electoral boundaries within strict parameters as populations shift and grow. This is one "innovation" the Americans desperately need.

btw Any organisation or union can call on the Electoral Commssion to aid in the fair and correct running of their elections. Even smaller Pacific Nations are assisted in their own elections.

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by reed

where is Bbloke when you need him?

Yes Bbloke, where are you? Our hour of need is present.

Originally Posted by reed

1. Happy meals on the Talibans. Check.
2. Dick Cheney needs no voice. He needs a colonic. Check.
3. Tony the phony bent over. Check
4. Real democracy. Iran? Israel? Check.
5. Pubs use to close at 10 o'clock in Scotland. Check

Rock On Reed!

Originally Posted by MrTAToad

... and then you've got the weird EU rules (or would have if we had decided these rules were enforcable) :

Bananas must not bend abnormally
Bananas should be at least 5.5in long and 1.05in round
Peaches below 2.2in diameter must not be sold between July and October
Carrots must be 0.75in wide, apart from baby carrots

Jeez, have you seen the regulations British superstores, Tesco and Sainsburys insist on for their veg?

Originally Posted by MrTAToad

Have you seen the Top Gear episode where the team (The Hamster, Captain Slow and Clarkson) is in American. If you haven't - well, I wont spoil it for you...

Yes a lot of fun, but I wonder how staged it was. And Clarkson is a bigot. I like Americans (except Dick Cheney of course).

Originally Posted by rubaiyat

We have several sophisticated voting innovations in the ACT.

First is the secret ballot, developed in Victoria, which removed the bribery and corruption endemic in voting and now is virtually universal around the world.

Second is compulsory voting which avoids all possibilities of stacking and manipulation of votes....

A great system.

[MrTAToad]

Jeez, have you seen the regulations British superstores, Tesco and Sainsburys insist on for their veg?

So what are they then ?

And if a few days time, Greenland will be leaving the EU - so it'll be interesting to see how they get on.

[Rhisiart]

Originally Posted by MrTAToad

So what are they then ?

Try this.

P.S. I am with you a bit on the EU. I am pro-European, but CAP stinks to high heaven.

[MrTAToad]

Thats to do with trading practices - a slightly different area, and which most companies suffer from. At least the EU does force some good working practices - its just a shame everything else is so cack-handed.

P.S. I am with you a bit on the EU.

Good to hear!

[reed]

And to think you have problems with Tesco. Try Wal-Mart!!! I'd nuke them if I could. In fact I would nuke Malls in general. But I'm in an angry mood this evening. Sorry.