badmouthing our president

[evildan]

binaryDigit,

habilis is in indeed entitled to his opinion, his request that "bashing the president" is somehow anti-american is what I found to be ignorant. (again, just another opinion).

I think his point was that former US presidents generally don't bash the current US president, it's a courtesy thing. He was sorta agreeing with you by saying that at least the Dixie Chick had some nads.

Yeah, I got that... but I don't think we were in agreement. The former presidents typically don't speak out against the current president, in day-to-day policies, however, if you check your history book, you'll see that their voice is a bit more prominent in a "pre-war" state as we are now. (either speaking out for or against). I think the former presidents (Clinton and Carter of course) are speaking in opposition as a way of representing the bulk of the population that agrees we shouldn't go to war. A more prominent tradition, and one that I follow, is that if America does go to war, we all support the effort, while in progress. Not conceding of course the premise that we are not in a state of war any longer then we have to.

And let me be the first in this thread to state the obvious. Going to war is going to mean dead Americans. Your brothers, sisters, friends, cousins and relatives will be directly effected by this war. You can't avoid that. And it should be considered. Bush, up until this point has shown nothing but an arrogant unblinded point-of-view that America will somehow just go to war, fight and win.

This is not true. It's never been true. But we're going to war anyway.

[MDLarson]

I only read / skimmed the first page, and I'm already sick of the dripping sarcasm. Instead of lashing back at your opposition with some snide sarcastic remark, take a breath, listen to what they're really trying to say, and try to convince others of your position. And this goes for all sides.

[MDLarson]

After taking some of my own advice (taking a breath,) I'd like to lighten up a little myself. If you interpreted my last post as preaching at all, please know that's not what I'm trying to do... I just want everybody to treat everybody else with due respect.

[substrate]

binaryDigit, hablis is entitled to say anything he wants, so are the Dixie Chicks, but that doesn't mean there is any responsibility to believe what they say. I agree with the Dixie Chick's statements. A lot of people didn't and considered it ignorant. Because of that some radio stations are boycotting them. Fine. Both sides acted fully within their rights.

[binaryDigit]

Originally posted by substrate
binaryDigit, hablis is entitled to say anything he wants, so are the Dixie Chicks, but that doesn't mean there is any responsibility to believe what they say. I agree with the Dixie Chick's statements. A lot of people didn't and considered it ignorant. Because of that some radio stations are boycotting them. Fine. Both sides acted fully within their rights.

My point wasn't that people should "believe" what he has to say, it's just that he was pretty much attacked for his opinion. Which is funny because people were badmouthing him for badmouthing others. Classic pot->kettle->black. Sorta like saying "HEY, she's entitled to her opinion, so SHUT UP you ignorant fool!"

Situations like this always reminds me of one of my favorite Dilbert sayings (actually it's Dogbert that says it):

"It's obvious that you're intolerant of my intolerance".

[evildan]

binaryDigit, hablis is entitled to say anything he wants, so are the Dixie Chicks

I don't mean to poke fun, maybe I'm just in a wierd mood, but this line as a stand alone statement is kind of funny.

We're actually talking about war and the Dixie Chicks. Regardless of your stance on this issue, you have to find humor in that.

[doemel]

A band like the Dixie Chicks is not an official voice of the US. Period. In my opinion most people should be allowed to badmouth a government without consequences. I'm not saying it's always a smart thing to do but as long as they are not representatives of any government they can say anything they want. If, on the other hand, someone is in a government position they better choose their word more carefully. To give an example: Recently, a Canadian politician made a sort of a public statement that she hated Americans, also calling them "stupid bastards". Now, as much as I agree with her as far as the American govt. goes, I don't think she should have said that openly. In fact, this kind of public bashing is pretty stupid for a politician because it could be the end of his/her political carreer.
In that sense: Badmouth whoever you want but be prepared to be judged by you statements.

And again, criticising someone is not badmouthing someone. And I think all your ex-presidents know that difference, even when they're abroad.

[habilis]

Wow, it was interesting to see some of twists and turns this post has taken. My basic point was that if your gonna trash talk somebody, you better be able to back it up with fact. The Dixie Chicks, go to another country, trash talk the president, then dodge the questions because evidently, they can't articulate their point. Thats cowardly. And calling somebody stupid is what poeple do who can't articulate.

I'm wondering what it's like to be on the Bush hating side. I mean honestly, are you going to be happy if our economy rebounds? That would mean a gauranteed re-election. Are you going to be happy if the war goes quick (2 weeks or less - and it WILL) with almost 0 casualties on either side and our economy is boosted further? That would mean re-election as well. Are you going to be happy when you see the Iraqi's getting huge bails of food with U.S.A. stamped on it? That must infuriate you, and what a wierd way to be; angry at positivity. Are you going be bitter if there is no new terror attacks? Are you going to be bitter when the Iraqi economy rebounds and the people are free again with no starving children? And what about when we leave Iraq better then we found it, like Afganistan, and we leave without taking millions of barrels of raw crude oil with us? And we leave no occupying force behind (and we won't). Will you be mad to see the Iraqi's happy and prospering agian? Oh, and what about the arrests of the leaders of al Queada? That must bug you too that we're only weeks away from bagging Osama. Just look at the position your hatred for conservatism has put you in. Look, I know you guys don't hate the U.S. so much, it's conservatives and their seeing of black and white, right and wrong, good and evil, moral and immoral that you hate. I know what side I want to be on... Happy, Positive, Upbeat, full of Hope.

It's a shame, we really should have been united in this. Certain European countries are going to look really bad in the history books for being on the wrong side of this.