Former VP Al Gore on Apple board of directors

[edX]

oh, just one little irony about this that occurred to me serpico - you're pro war and complaining about taxes. without a good solid tax base, there would be no war. we wouldn't be a military power. the war is probably the biggest reason a tax cut didn't go thru. it takes money, lots of it.

RacerX and I are against the war. against having our money spent to finance this action. we should be screaming about not having taxes lowered.

of course, i'm sure we like to think our share is going into social programs.


so yea, i think Gore will add a lot of diplomacy in overseas negotiations. i think he'll be making lots of govt. oriented 'switch commercials' after this was announced.

hey, he might even get Bush to invest more of our govt's money into macs & os x . now wouldn't you be even happier if you knew your tax dollars were being spent on macs?

[serpicolugnut]

of course, i'm sure we like to think our share is going into social programs.

Yeah, that Liberty Tattoo removal program in SF was a real example of tax dollars being used badly.

Are you really anti-war? Were you just as vocal about your opposition during the Somalia conflict, the Kosovo conflict, or Operation Desert Fox in 1998?

This is what bothers me. It is complete hipocrisy, in my view, when the vast majority of antiwar people never batted an eyelash when Clinton sent troops in to harms way. Their main opposition to this conflict is that there is a Republican in the White House.

As for your assertion that $80K /year is enough to live on in Atlanta. Phooey.

First of all, that $80K was a combined family income before taxes. That's $80K for a family of three. Second, with that combined income, we are in a tax bracket that is close to 40%. Add in property taxes, sales taxes, small business taxes, etc., and the reality is that my wife and I have to work from Jan. 1 through June 10 just to pay the tax burden. It is very near 50%. That is borderline slavery. When you exist to support the state, it's getting real close.

And yes, I am aware that taxes go to fund the military. The Bush 2003 tax cut isn't finished yet. Actually, the House passed a version of it this week. It's going to be tougher in the Senate, but my guess is about 75% of it will get passed.

Another misconception - I'm not pro war. I hate war, but realize that the only way to neutralize a threat from a murderous dictator is to remove him by force. This mission, at least to me, seems a heck of a lot more legitimate than Kosovo, or even Op Desert Fox. But as I said, since a Republican is in the WH, the antiwar crowd (who are being funded by serveral American Communist outfits, btw) are against it.

hey, he might even get Bush to invest more of our govt's money into macs & os x . now wouldn't you be even happier if you knew your tax dollars were being spent on macs?

Not gonna happen, and I'm glad. I love Macs, and want Apple to succeed and capture a larger chunk of market share. But I really don't want my tax dollars being spent on buying Macs for the Gov't, unless they are appropriate for a specific task.

Gore will have little to do with day to day stuff at Apple. Look at what the other board members have done for Apple, other than sit in on meetings... Not much. The last thing Apple wants to do is use Gore as a visible "face" for Apple. I would guess, judging from the makeup of this country, that 50% of Mac users are right leaning, and do not have a favorable opinion of him. If Apple is crazy enough to alienate these users, then they deserve their fate.

Don't worry Ed, next time you have a Mac OS X question, I'll be here for you too. :-)

Finally, the Little Red Hen is a popular childrens story. You can refresh your memory here- http://www.ri.net/schools/Central_Fa...k/hen/hen.html

Ed, it's always a pleasure...

[serpicolugnut]

This will be my last post on this thread. I want anyone who thinks this war isn't just to read the below story courtesy of UPI.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...1-023627-5923r

Keep in mind this is from someone who was so antiwar that they packed their bags and went to Badhdad to be a human shield.

Vive le Iraq!

[Sirtovin]

Um... I support the War on Terror etc... but What does this have to do with Al gore and Apple?

[edX]

Originally posted by serpicolugnut
Yeah, that Liberty Tattoo removal program in SF was a real example of tax dollars being used badly.

Are you really anti-war? Were you just as vocal about your opposition during the Somalia conflict, the Kosovo conflict, or Operation Desert Fox in 1998?

This is what bothers me. It is complete hipocrisy, in my view, when the vast majority of antiwar people never batted an eyelash when Clinton sent troops in to harms way. Their main opposition to this conflict is that there is a Republican in the White House.

actually i was somewhat vocal about being against war in all these conflicts. i certainly didn't have a public medium like a forum in which to voice my opinions and thus only friends and family heard them. on the other hand i could understand these other conflicts in terms of war already having broken out and our getting involved to stop it. i still didn't like or support the idea of war and was very much against those who had started it in the first place. and i was probably as disappointed as anyone when saddam wasn't removed from power during the gulf war. if things had been handled properly, then we wouldn't be in this mess today. and yes, i voiced that opinion then.

also, while i tend to lean towards democratic leaders, that is hardly my beef. if a democrat were in office and doing the same thing, i would have to take the same stance. I've seen lots of republicans i like and admire. i even have close friends and family members who are republican. Gerald Ford is on my list of the great presidents of my lifetime. why - because he didn't screw anything up. he may not have done much, but he didn't mess with anything either. he just played golf and let the country run itself for the most part. on the other hand, LBJ will always be one of my most hated presidents. Vietnam was his fault. as much as i dislike nixon for so many things, i will always like and respect him for ending vietnam and for opening diplomacy to to other nations in unprecedented ways. i could go on with a long list of examples like this.

As for your assertion that $80K /year is enough to live on in Atlanta. Phooey.

First of all, that $80K was a combined family income before taxes. That's $80K for a family of three. Second, with that combined income, we are in a tax bracket that is close to 40%. Add in property taxes, sales taxes, small business taxes, etc., and the reality is that my wife and I have to work from Jan. 1 through June 10 just to pay the tax burden. It is very near 50%. That is borderline slavery. When you exist to support the state, it's getting real close.

you're right, it's presumptious of me to know what your real financial situation is. for a 2 income family that really isn't a lot. but it certainly is more than a lot of people have. as for your taxes, i would certainly hope that you are making some charitable tax deductable contributions to causes that you believe in, thus at least taking some control in the redistribution of your income.

And yes, I am aware that taxes go to fund the military. The Bush 2003 tax cut isn't finished yet. Actually, the House passed a version of it this week. It's going to be tougher in the Senate, but my guess is about 75% of it will get passed.

we'll see. depends a lot on how much this war and the aftermath are going to cost i guess.

Another misconception - I'm not pro war. I hate war, but realize that the only way to neutralize a threat from a murderous dictator is to remove him by force. This mission, at least to me, seems a heck of a lot more legitimate than Kosovo, or even Op Desert Fox. But as I said, since a Republican is in the WH, the antiwar crowd (who are being funded by serveral American Communist outfits, btw) are against it.

i've said again and again - the big difference is that here we are the ones striking first. all the 'pre-emptive' rhetoric. and while saddam's attrocities are being used as justification for the war, they are npt the reason for the war. if they were, we should have invaded Iraq back in the Reagan years or earlier. also, by that reasoning, are you ready for us to start full out campaigns against all the places in the world where these kinds of attrocites take place? saddam and iraq are hardly unique examples. just how much of what goes on in the world are we to be the ones to control? one could certainly point back to our own years of institutionalized slavery and decimation of the native americans as proof that we haven't been all goody 2 shoes either. i'm not implying we should have any guilt over this, merely asking "where do we draw the lines?"

Not gonna happen, and I'm glad. I love Macs, and want Apple to succeed and capture a larger chunk of market share. But I really don't want my tax dollars being spent on buying Macs for the Gov't, unless they are appropriate for a specific task.

yea, but there are plenty of tasks for which they would be appropriate and in the long run they are a better deal. economically, environmentally, shelf life, etc.

Gore will have little to do with day to day stuff at Apple. Look at what the other board members have done for Apple, other than sit in on meetings... Not much. The last thing Apple wants to do is use Gore as a visible "face" for Apple. I would guess, judging from the makeup of this country, that 50% of Mac users are right leaning, and do not have a favorable opinion of him. If Apple is crazy enough to alienate these users, then they deserve their fate.

actually, i think you'll find that most mac users are bit to the left. probably more middle of the road. it just goes with the whole 'think different' thing. and you're right of course, Al won't have a whole lot to do being on the board. but i would guess he was brought in for a reason. it will be interesting to see what it is.

Don't worry Ed, next time you have a Mac OS X question, I'll be here for you too. :-)

good to hear. i'm still trying to figure out this issue with my external drive. it stalls while writing large numbers of small files. i know this is a know issue with os x, but my other drive doens't do it, so there's got to be something more going on.

Finally, the Little Red Hen is a popular childrens story. You can refresh your memory here- http://www.ri.net/schools/Central_Fa...k/hen/hen.html

still not sure i know this one, but the basic premise is nothing new. nor anything i disagree with. in reality, this could just as easily be used to support collectivism as it is an important concept that all those who can contribute do so. it's actually capitalism that sets up a condition where this kind of non cooperation is allowed. the problem with this kind of simplification at the moment is that there aren't always enough jobs for people who are willing to pitch in and work. and with some things, having too many helpers actually slows the process down. better to take turns baking the bread than to never get the bread baked.

Ed, it's always a pleasure...

i don't know if it's really 'a pleasure', but it's always informative and educational. in short - a good thing.

take care.

[Arden]

In some respects, I'm glad serpicolugnut will not be returning here to continue his mudslinging, but I did find them amusing. I tend to side with Racer X and edX on the issues spat back and forth. I believe Bush and his administration have done more harm than good for this country and the world (maybe 65%-35%) but I don't have the time to put all my arguments into typing.

I believe Al Gore will be an excellent addition to the Apple Board. He's plenty smart, he helped run this country in prosperity for eight years, he got the Internet going (Vinton Cerf and Tim Berner-Lee actually invented the networking basis of the Internet), and he's not as stiff-necked and boring as people make him out to be. I think anyone who saw him on Letterman will agree with me.

edX, what exactly is the difference between a moderator and an administrator? Does a moderator merely manage a category while an administrator runs the behind-the-scenes and offline part of the web site?

[edX]

arden - we have moderators who are volunteers who watch over a forum, or even a few, and help maintain site policy. each forum but the classifieds, has at least 2 of these. some of these are also super moderators, which means their moderation powers are enabled in all forums so that if they run across anything first while surfing the site, they can just deal with it. then we have 3 admins - one who does all the offline work of maintaining the site. that would be ScottW, also the site owner. themacko and i are co-admins of the day to day stuff. essentially it comes down to us how policy will be interpretted and enforced, who the moderators are, etc. themacko handles mail from members who are experiencing trouble with the site while i spend more energy on managing the moderators.

all of us work together 'behind the scenes' to discuss issues and keep things running as smoothly as possible. we all worked together as a team to bring you the new forum organization for instance. but the mods are hardly a bunch who sit around and nod their heads for us, nor do we expect them to be. we have our debates about how to make this site the best, just as we debate out here about how to make the world the best. in the end, we make a decision and work together to implement it as best we can. but when push comes to shove and we can't agree as a group, then the admins get final say. admins are also the only ones with the power to access the control panels for the site and do things like ban a person. a mod has the power to police and enforce, and bannings are made from their recomendations, but they need an admin to physically do the ban. you pretty much have to be trying to piss us off to get banned though. we're fairly tolerant of mistakes and the occasional emotional response from an other wise responsible contributing member.

i also think it says alot about the adminstration of this site that scottw and i have almost opposite political views. yet we work together with respect. i even consider him a friend. but we both know how to agree to disagree at a certain point and to be ok with someone being different than us. and we apply that same philosophy to discussions like this.

uh, does that answer your question or did i give you way too much information about something else?

[serpicolugnut]

In some respects, I'm glad serpicolugnut will not be returning here to continue his mudslinging, but I did find them amusing.

Don't soil your panties just yet arden. Your favorite hexagonal irritant never said he was leaving macosx.com. He said he was done pontificating on this thread. I'm staying put, if for no other reason than to spread my infinite wisdom to those lacking such areas.

Yes, that is sarcasm.