Former VP Al Gore on Apple board of directors

[Arden]

Originally posted by serpicolugnut
He said he was done pontificating on this thread.

That's exactly what I was referring to. Was I unclear?

[RacerX]

serpicolugnut, 03-22-2003 0119 GMT:
Come next week at this time, Iraq will be liberated, and the people of that country will be externally grateful. The stock market will have risen another 500-750 points (it's already risen close to 1000 in 8 days - the biggest 8 day jump in 20 years), oil prices will be in the low-30's a barrel and dropping, and Bush's popularlty will have surged another 10 pts. to around 80%. God - it must make you sick . (But, hey I'm a realist and realize that his reelection is still very much in doubt).

It has been a full week, lets look at how these predictions have held up.

• Iraq has not been liberated, the people are not extremely grateful, and in some parts of the country things are far worse than before. Most notably, the lack of food and water in some of the southern cities and the threat of Turkey invading from the north if the Kurds look like they may try to form a separate Kurdish state.
  
• the last I checked, the stock market wasn't up 500-750 points from it's close last week. Actually it has dropped about 400 points in this period.
  
• I don't know how oil prices are doing, but that rarely translates into gas prices. As I recall one of the biggest drops in oil prices happened within a week of September 11, 2001. It dropped to the low $20's as I recall (though I don't seem to remember where it started from).
  
• Bush is not surged on the polls another 10 points. The last I saw he had dropped to below 70%.

And then there was the God - it must make you sick comment. People I care for have been effected in this war already, and yes I have had a sick feeling thanks to that.

Another thing that has made me sick is the ultra nationalism that has been displayed by supporters of the war. I'm personally embarrassed that they are Americans. They reflect badly on the principles that have always made this country great.

I find it sad that so many people feel such a need to hate others. Some would say hate is too strong a word. Actually it doesn't even come close to what some people have been displaying.

Something for those who remember and want to learn from history. Germany between World War I and World War II started generating a strong feeling of nationalism in it's people. They started to direct their fears and hardships that the people were feeling into hate. That country felt that it was right to invade others, and the people who spoke out against those acts were (very much like now) persecuted by others for their feelings. Later they would be rounded up with other enemies of the state.

I don't want us to be that type of country. I would hate to think that we, as a people, are that little in spirit.

[nickn]

Can you say off topic? Mods? I actually honestly brought this post up from the recent posts...to realize it had 0 , nada, absolutely NOTHING to do with apple news or rumors.

I'm not even going to comment on the post itself.

[edX]

nick - check the site rules. staying on topic is not one of them. good threads often come from tangential material. this is one case of that. read enough threads around here and you'll find others as well. despite all the claims otherwise, we aren't facists around here. we have a few forbidden topics, for good reasons in our way of thinking, but outside of that, people can feel free to speak their mind.

[nickn]

Hm..

I'm not saying the topic is wrong by any means, and I believe removing posts is wrong, however it makes no sense to have a topic on war in the apple news and rumors section.

You say read others..all the ones I've read (notably not as many as others) I've had very few where I've clicked it and had a 100% different topic then what the post says.

You jump to the conclusion that I didn't support what RacerX was saying..it wasn't that at all. however why have different forums if threads are going to get that far off? I guess this being one of a few threads I havent' followed if I read it all I'll realize how it got THIS far off track.

Live and learn I guess....

[edX]

no, i didn't assume anything about how you felt about RacerX's views. but if you did follow the whole thread, you would see that it started out with apple news (as per the thread title) and that led to a political discussion - not that big of a tangent considering who Gore is and the current climate in the world. now, hopefully those of us on the pro Gore side will be just as right about what Gore will add to apple as we were about this war being something more than a quick police action. Hell, saddam might have glady given up all his weapons if we'd offered him macs in exchange.

ps - forums with topic police are a pet peeve of mine we try our best to put the original post in the forum it belongs and after that it can have a life of its own.

[Arden]

I'm 18 today, and I'm all comfortable wrapped up in this blanket, sitting in front of the computer at 1:30 a.m. (er, excuse me—0130 hours).

How's that for off topic?

I support Al Gore, and I would have voted for him had I been old enough in the last election. Just look at what Bush has done for this country, especially our economy. In today's (yesterday's, now) Modesto Bee's Opinions section, someone had an article about the fact that low-income programs like Medicaid are undergoing massive cuts to satisfy the federal budget, just so Bush can give money back to the rich corporations and fat cats in this country. Disgusting.

[serpicolugnut]

Iraq has not been liberated, the people are not extremely grateful, and in some parts of the country things are far worse than before. Most notably, the lack of food and water in some of the southern cities and the threat of Turkey invading from the north if the Kurds look like they may try to form a separate Kurdish state.


the last I checked, the stock market wasn't up 500-750 points from it's close last week. Actually it has dropped about 400 points in this period.


I don't know how oil prices are doing, but that rarely translates into gas prices. As I recall one of the biggest drops in oil prices happened within a week of September 11, 2001. It dropped to the low $20's as I recall (though I don't seem to remember where it started from).


Bush is not surged on the polls another 10 points. The last I saw he had dropped to below 70%.

Nearly 50% of Iraq has been liberated. We've not taken Baghdad or Basra yet, but we've advanced more in a week than any other army ever has.

As for the stock market, well all it takes is one piece of news good or bad, and it surges 200-300 points. It's at approx 8150 now, up about 650 points from when the war stated. It could dip again, but when all is said and done, it will be back in the 9000's.

Oil prices translate directly into Gas Prices. They started going up before the war on fears that it could affect the US supply. It started dropping right after the war began because OPEC pledged to increase production during the war.

You think that people displaying their national pride makes you sick. I'll tell you what makes me sick:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82395,00.html
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Sto...234836,00.html

It's funny how anti-war protests can be some of the most violent displays of freedom of speech...

Nice attempt at comparing the present US admin. to that of Germany between WWI and II. I love it when people twist history to fit their agenda. Please, tell me - where we have stated we hate the Iraqi people? Please tell me where we have stated our superiority over the Iraqi people? Please tell me where we have rounded up Iraqis and sent them to concentration camps? We haven't, and your comparison is full of liberal hot air.

But, let's learn from history for a moment, and since you are fond of using Germany, lets use them as an example. In the 1930's, Germany was involved in all the acts you stated. They were invading neighbors, and spreading through Europe quite fast. However, some appeasers, namely Neville Chamberlain thought he could make a deal with them and spare the UK. Stalin thought he could make a deal with them and avoid direct conflict. Hitler renigged on both of those deals and the rest is history.

After the war, even Neville Chamerblain himself admitted he was wrong, and should have addressed the Hitler threat before it got to big.

Once again, my favorite quote from Albert Einstein...
The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything.

And finally, arden...
It's no surprise you are 18 and would've voted for Gore had you been old enough. When I was 22 I voted for Clinton. I thought I knew everything, as you probably do too (I didn't), and his class warfare speeches rang loudly in my just over minimum wage life. The funny thing is, as I became older, and more successful, and started making more money - I realized the "evil rich people" they were referring to was me - even though in my eyes I was hardly rich. Take my advice -be suspicious when a politician demonizes a certain segment of the population for their political gain (as Hitler did with the Jews, Democrats do with people who make more than $35K/year).