Is this how the westerners think??

[Ugg]

Isn't GW doing the same thing? Using TV to involve "his" people in the war effort? Wouldn't that justify Saddam doing the same thing to our media?

[brianleahy]

Justified? I'd say no, but perhaps what you meant was: would an attack by Iraq on an American media outlet violate the Geneva Convention?

Perhaps not -- but that only means that the *Geneva Convention* might well NOT forbid it.
This is not - emphatically not - the same as saying that we'd have to LET him do so.

Even if Saddam's use of Al-Jazeera to incite the people to fight DOES constitute an exception to the applicable provision of the Geneva convention, even that does not mean that Saddam had to LET us knock out Al-J. Indeed, he could do more-or-less anything he liked to keep them on the air. He would even be allowed to retaliate for the strike, if he liked (and had the capability).

The issue is: did the US violate the GC (an international agreement we signed) by attacking Al-J?

Edit: I did a little research -- in general, the GC declares structures of purely civilian use off-limits to attack. However, there are exceptions - for instance, even an ambulance can be a legitimate target IF it's in the control of the military. This, I would say, is why the Red Cross tends to wounded civilians, rather than a military medical organization

[toast]

Originally posted by brianleahy
Even if Saddam's use of Al-Jazeera to incite the people to fight DOES constitute an exception to the applicable provision of the Geneva convention, even that does not mean that Saddam had to LET us knock out Al-J.

Al-Jazeera is an independent Qatari TV. We are not talking about Al-Jazeera but about the official Iraqi TV, which I don't know the name.

Originally posted by brianleahy
The issue is: did the US violate the GC (an international agreement we signed) by attacking Al-J?

Attack on media is forbidden, except when the media are in the hands of military forces.

[brianleahy]

Ah, my fault about Al-J vs. Iraqi TV. I was confused.

I searched around the web for the text of the Geneva Convention. I found sections of it, but didn't manage to find anything that specifically mentions media outlets. Do you (or anyone out there) happen to know the applicable section/article number?

[toast]

It's okay for the TV mistake
I'll search the UN site. It must be somewhere.

[Cat]

For those who know the Rustow model of development, I guess Iraq is step 2 (preparing for take-off).

I do not know the details, but I thought the Rustow model was about democratization, not about economical development:

1. Preparatory phase: Breakdown of the non-democratic regime
2. Decision phase: Beginning establishment of a democratic order
3. Consolidation phase: Further development of democracy; democracy ingrained in the political culture

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

America has just started phase 1 in the worst possible way. Iraq was quite developed economically prior to Gulf War 1 and a peacefull demise of the ruling Ba'ath party could have made Iraq indeed a democratic beacon in the Middle-East.
Not just in politics, but also in economy (considering them separate domains for the sake of the argument) short term-profits achieved by the wrong means, bring long-term losses. The way something is reached in some area's is more improtant than the immediate results themselves. Decisions are made just by the way they are made (e.g. democratically) not by the results they obtain (e.g. removing a dictator).

[tazmandevil]

The "geneva - convention" seems to be not a "stable" work. It is a thread-work, which is living and changing across actual situations on the world.

Today there is the 4. version of the geneva convention available and in discussion. The funny thing is, that each countries picks out what they want and discuss about others, that they don't like and so there are many different contracts about it:

http://search.admin.ch/cgi-bin/query...x=0&search.y=0

http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/c0_518_12.html

http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/g/home/f...09.UpFile.pdf/ mg_011205_4gcdeclarn_g.pdf

http://www.rotkreuz.de/voelkerrecht/..._konventionen/

[toast]

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The Rustow model can apply to development as well as to democratization. Some works have been made to adapt it to political parties too.
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