do you sleep?

[binaryDigit]

I used to get about 4-6 hours, but then my son was born (also have a daughter) and I had even less time to get stuff done. For a long time (about 2 years) it was 2-4 hours, but I find that I have a harder time staying awake now, so I'm settling back to 4-5 hours.

If I get more than 5-6 hours of sleep, I ALWAYS feel like crap the next day. I feel more sleepy than if I got 4 hours. I also can't take naps, I always feel terrible after waking from a nap, which really sucks if you're really tired. Luckily I almost never have time to actually take a nap, so it's not usually an issue.

Funny thing is that I can only remember once in my life that I awoke from sleeping and thought "MAN, I FEEL GREAT!!!". It was about 15 years ago and I can remember it vividly to this day, as it was such a weird feeling.

Originally posted by habilis
chem:
I have a little tabletop fan in my 3 year old daughters bedroom that runs all night to diffuse the louder sounds of the TV or music and active parts of the house. Is that a bad idea?

I also have the same fan going in my bedroom because I like the soft white sound it makes and helps me fall asleep faster.

What about falling asleep to music as I sometimes do?

We have a pair of HEPA filters in our kids rooms. They are great because they produce that white noise that's good at masking other noises (that and it helps keep the dust down in the rooms). I did a little research on the whole issue of white noise and sleeping and just like everything else in life, opinions are mixed. On the one hand it turns out that one of the therapies used for people with hearing problems is exactly that, to have them sleep with white noise. But then there are others that say continued exposure can be bad. Then there are others who say that masking "normal" noises makes it harder for the kids to adjust to sleeping in a "normal" setting (i.e. sans white noise), though my kids seem to do just fine either way. My daughter just got her hearing checked and everything was perfect. We recently (about 2 months ago) stopped using the filter in our daughters room. We only turn it on if we know there is going to be some extra noise going on (watching an "action flick", or having friends over) and it works great for that. Our son still has his on all the time though, but we'll probably start cutting back soon. BTW, the whole reason for getting the filters in the first place was because they both had pretty bad allergies. Our daughter is much better now and our son improving, so that is the primary reason we're cutting back on running the filters (i.e. it's not noise related).

[habilis]

Yeah, I have the same No-Nap curse. I feel like absolute hell for like 3 hours if I take a nap. 5minutes, 1 hour, or 2 hours produces the same ultra-grogged out experience. I's almost impossible for me tot take a nap in the first place, I'm not good at it, and in the second place I don't have the time, so it works out anyway.

[chemistry_geek]

Well, this ultra-grogged-out feeling you guys are talking about is from REM sleep, and I mentioned this a little earlier in this thread. It's part of the side effects of the neurotransmitters and other things released in the brain during REM. Sleep is like a chemical titration, you want to reach the end point, but go no further. Go any further and you over shoot the end point and you feel like crap for hours, and no amount of JOLT cola, coffee, or any other stimulant is going to diminish it any sooner.

[binaryDigit]

Originally posted by chemistry_geek
Well, this ultra-grogged-out feeling you guys are talking about is from REM sleep, and I mentioned this a little earlier in this thread. It's part of the side effects of the neurotransmitters and other things released in the brain during REM. Sleep is like a chemical titration, you want to reach the end point, but go no further. Go any further and you over shoot the end point and you feel like crap for hours, and no amount of JOLT cola, coffee, or any other stimulant is going to diminish it any sooner.

The only problem is that wrt naps, it doesn't matter if I sleep for 15 minutes or 4 hours, I still feel like crap (just like Habilis). Now that makes more sense for night sleeping, as I've felt the effects of oversleep many times before, and though mentally tougher to overcome, undersleeping is much preferred. Thing is, I've basically have had this sleep pattern for literally as long as I can remember (we're talking early grade school). I have no doubts that it's not "natural" and I'm sure I'm going to pay the price, but after around 9:00pm or so, I always get this second wind and feel better from 9pm-2am then I do from noon-5pm (which doesn't do much for my work, but is nice for my own projects ).

Maybe Habilis and I can check ourselves into a sleep clinic so they can do some research

[habilis]

Originally posted by binaryDigit
...after around 9:00pm or so, I always get this second wind and feel better from 9pm-2am then I do from noon-5pm (which doesn't do much for my work, but is nice for my own projects...

Ahh, yes the infamous nocturnal second wind. I get this same second wind just a little after I put my daughter to bed around 8:30pm. Like you and toast I also find my most creative and productive time is at night, after everyone's asleep so I can concentrate.

On a related issue, I was trying to get 8hrs a night this week as an experiment to see if it makes me feel any better but I have failed miserably to get 8 hrs. 6 has been the norm. I'll have to try again next week.

[chemistry_geek]

Originally posted by binaryDigit
The only problem is that wrt naps, it doesn't matter if I sleep for 15 minutes or 4 hours, I still feel like crap (just like Habilis). Now that makes more sense for night sleeping, as I've felt the effects of oversleep many times before, and though mentally tougher to overcome, undersleeping is much preferred. Thing is, I've basically have had this sleep pattern for literally as long as I can remember (we're talking early grade school). I have no doubts that it's not "natural" and I'm sure I'm going to pay the price, but after around 9:00pm or so, I always get this second wind and feel better from 9pm-2am then I do from noon-5pm (which doesn't do much for my work, but is nice for my own projects ).

Maybe Habilis and I can check ourselves into a sleep clinic so they can do some research

Most people who take cat naps in the day time are clinically sleep deprived. This can be verified by an MSLT (Multiple Sleep Latency Test). If you have early REM onset during the MSLT 20 minute time period, then you are sleep deprived. MSLTs are scheduled in 2 hour intervals for 20 minutes four times during the day. Most people who have cronic sleep deprivation will enter REM sleep when given the chance to sleep. This is why you mostly feel just aweful after that nap, too much REM sleep and not enough of the restorative delta sleep. The brain will substitute one form of sleep for another.

[binaryDigit]

Originally posted by chemistry_geek
Most people who take cat naps in the day time are clinically sleep deprived. This can be verified by an MSLT (Multiple Sleep Latency Test). If you have early REM onset during the MSLT 20 minute time period, then you are sleep deprived. MSLTs are scheduled in 2 hour intervals for 20 minutes four times during the day. Most people who have cronic sleep deprivation will enter REM sleep when given the chance to sleep. This is why you mostly feel just aweful after that nap, too much REM sleep and not enough of the restorative delta sleep. The brain will substitute one form of sleep for another.

Hmmm, you seem to be knowledgable in the ways of sleep. A question. As stated before, if I get "too much" sleep, I feel like crap. So how does one try to get oneself back into a "good" pattern. Any more sleep than what I currently get yields negative results. Do you just suffer through this period as your body/brain adapts? Perhaps even though I'm sleeping longer, it's still not long enough and I need to just sleep even longer? It seems like this might be a classic "things just have to get worse before they can get better"/"bitter medicine" kinda deals?

[chemistry_geek]

Originally posted by binaryDigit
Hmmm, you seem to be knowledgable in the ways of sleep. A question. As stated before, if I get "too much" sleep, I feel like crap. So how does one try to get oneself back into a "good" pattern. Any more sleep than what I currently get yields negative results. Do you just suffer through this period as your body/brain adapts? Perhaps even though I'm sleeping longer, it's still not long enough and I need to just sleep even longer? It seems like this might be a classic "things just have to get worse before they can get better"/"bitter medicine" kinda deals?

Please read some of my earlier posts in the thread. To get back on a good sleep pattern:

1. Try to make your sleeping environment as comfortable as possible. This includes making the room as dark and quiet as possible. Try lowering the termperature in the room to approximately 60 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit. If you need ear plugs to get the optimal quietness, try the soft waxy ones (don't role them into a thin loaf and insert them into the ear canal, they break-off and can get stuck inside your ear - I speak from experience). Get room darkening shades if necessary.

2. Make the bed as comfortable as possible. I sleep on cotton flannel sheets, a down featherbed, goose and down pillows, and down comforter year around, no matter what the weather is. If want to explore this route, just remember, you get what you pay for.

3. Go to sleep around 9:00 to 10:00PM depending on when you have to wake for school or work. Plan on sleeping 8 solid hours, so schedule your daytime events accordingly. No heavy exercise in the evening. Plan the evening towards "winding down". No playing Quake3Arena or Unreal Tournament.

4. Don't eat large full meals for two to three hours before bed. If you need a snack, make it quick and simple.

5. When you go to bed, try not to think about the day's events if they were stressful. Try to reduce your stress if you experience any. If you need to watch TV or read a book before bed, then do it for about 30 minutes. When you first get sleepy, turn everything off (lights/tv/radio) and go to sleep. Don't forget to set your alarm clock if you need one.

Melatonin is an over the counter supplement available at healthfood stores. It is a naturally occuring hormone that is produced in the brain (builds during the day and peaks just before sleep - helping to make us sleepy), but decreases as we age. READ UP and RESEARCH this before considering taking this, and consult a doctor if you think it's necessary. I'm not advocating taking melatonin, I'm just explaining available options for improving your sleep. Melatonin helps to "reset" your biological clock (circadian rhythm). It is taken 30 minutes before you want to go to bed for the following few days. So if you want to go to bed at 9:00PM the next few days, take it at 8:30PM. You should get sleepy around 9:00PM the following night. Taking this nightly isn't necessarily going to improve your sleep. You won't sleep any deeper taking melatonin than without. It's simply used to rest your biological clock.

There is no magic over-the-counter pill that will make you sleep as solidly as a small child. You have to put some effort into making sure you get the QUALITY and QUANTITY of restful sleep.