web design

**Nummi** · January 11th, 2002, 10:28 AM

Do you think a website should be as simple as possible, loading as fast as possible with as little "stuff" as possible. Or, should a site be packed with Flash, Javascript, CSS, and complex design?

I know it matters what the site is about... but, overall. Web design in general.

**rinse** · January 11th, 2002, 11:03 AM

in short, yes.

**AdmiralAK** · January 11th, 2002, 11:22 AM

nice flashy design (flashy = show off) and fast loading-easy-surfing are not mutually exclusive as concepts.

CSS doesnt really bog down a web site's speed. In fact I prefer it because it takes redundancy out of the picture when you code in HTML.

Javascript can also load fast so that is not an issue.

THe only issues you might be faced with are java applets and flash animations/sites.

If you are going to use java or flash make sure that you optimize the heck out of them! I made the mistake of having a flash based menu system a few years back on my web site and it took 56k users a minute or so to load it! That was bad for my site

The menu looked nice, but when it cuts into usability then forget about it :-)

I had also visited sites doing snow fall java applets in the winter time (around xmas) and it took so long to load that applet (even under T1) that it wasnt even funny!

the magic word is optimization -- I would love to use flash but I have not learned how to optimize my stuff yet so I am veering away from it at the moment.

Also, you can do dual versions of the site, a flash and an HTML part for people to choose

Admiral

**mrfluffy** · January 11th, 2002, 12:56 PM

try to avoid javascript, that 'hit 3 monkeys and win a prize' crassed my mac every time it appeared before is got OS X. flash is my personal fave, especially when poeple know how to intergrate it with server-side stuff (which i unfortunately dont).

the 3 most important rules/quotes i've heard are

"people are normally on someone elses site so make yours stick in their mind"

"always optimise it for 56K"

"most people use PCs, always have one (or VPC) to test it"

**AdmiralAK** · January 11th, 2002, 02:29 PM

I think one more rule that I follow is the "test in all/most major browsers"
At home I have IE, netscape, opera, lynx (yes lynx

), omni and iCab (and VPC to test stuff there)

Also forgot to say that when you do code in javascript make sure you code well so that crashing doesnt occur, and it is the most compatible.

You dont need superflashy javascript to make a nice impression.
You need small functional things that look nice and navigate even nicer.
That is what people remember. If they have trouble with your site chances are that they wont come back -- and they will not tell others if your site stinks. IF they like yoursite though they will advertize :-)

**martinatkinson** · January 15th, 2002, 06:53 PM

Hello!

I usually stay away from Flash. Many people do not have the plugin and will not take the time to download it. You may lose some potential customers (if you are ecommerce)

I sometimes cook up some JavaScript but only for small jobs and not to run a whole site (again thinking of people with old browsers who do not java enabled)

My opinion is to make a site as eye-popping as possible while keeping the load time under 30 seconds for a 24K modem user. These are my preferences and while I can not always do this for some sites this is what I shoot for.

Also, most users are not as impressed about the amount of cool graphics or eye-popping special effects that a site has as much as they are about how fast the site loads or what the site offers. Remember, a user does not have all day to check out all kinds of sites to find the thing they need. If your web site takes to long to load they will probably move on to the next hit in the search engine.

Have a great day!

Albert

**evildan** · February 9th, 2002, 12:37 PM

Also, most users are not as impressed about the amount of cool graphics or eye-popping special effects that a site has as much as they are about how fast the site loads or what the site offers.

I would have to disagree with martinatkinson on that one. Many of the marketing research that I've come accross, the new age of consumers, men ages 18-25 and women ages 16-24 won't stay focused on a website unless it's visually stimulating.

Ecommerce site have the worst battle, they must load fast, while being visually stimulating.

while keeping the load time under 30 seconds for a 24K modem user.

I would have to disagree with these numbers as well. 30 seconds on a 24K will restrict the overall need for a website in most cases. I'm not saying it can't be done... I just shoot a bit higher. I try to have my sites load in under 30 seconds on a 56K.

I would also like to point out that Flash is being used on over 90% of the browsers out there... so again, not to single you out martinatkinson, but it's just not true to say "most people don't have the plugin."

It's fine to not build a site in Flash or use java, these are just tools of the trade. I favor Flash becuase it's a very nice vector based app that has the ability to combine both stimulating graphics while keeping loadtimes down. I usually select flash over java, because flash seems to be more crossplatform in my experience.

I'm not saying your wong martinatkinson, just that I disagree with your take on the development of a sucessful website.

I was online the other night and a jewelry store (multi-million dollard one at that) had straight HTML and icon graphics illustrations as examples of their products. The site disturbed a person with in line-of-site of my monitor enough to say "I wouldn't buy from that place, obviously they are not concerned about their image." She had the same reaction we all have when we see a bad commercial, or ad in a newspapper, obviously the company was concerned with issues other than thier image.

I don't mean to imply that had it been a Flash site, that response would have not been provoked. Rather, it's important to look at the bigger picture here, image. Really that's what you are selling in a website.

Is it better to have placement in 500 spots on local TV with a poor ad? or 100 TV spots with an ad that will aquire the interest of your target audience?

Be it personal, or business, there's not ONE answer to Nummi's question. Look at Nike, one of the most recognized logos in the world and all it is a swoosh. Simplistic design is great, in fact it's my favorite style of design.

I like to control every aspect of my site, text size, color, font, placement, all of it. Browsers vary too much for me to be happy with a straight html site, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

**martinatkinson** · February 9th, 2002, 04:03 PM

Hello!

I re read my post and don't think I quite got across what I was meaning. I will try again.

First of all I do think you need to pay very close attention to the design of your site. I try to shoot for a clean design without alot of animations, flashing graphics or other stuff. I too have gone to many online companies sites that look pretty unproffessional and left right after their front page loaded. Make your site clean, tables with some nice smooth anti-aliased graphics but not to many "cool" effects that your visitors get dizzy or confused.

Secondly, about the time thing, I meant that 30 sec on a 24K modem is what I shoot for. I have only designed one site that met that requirement and all the others come very close. If you shoot for the fastest load speed you will get a fairly good load speed on average users modems.

Also, about Flash, yes, I guess alot of users do have Flash as long as they are using a more recent browser. It is not that I do not like Flash. It can do cool stuff and I use it to make animated GIFs every once in a while. I do not like the fact that if you want a catchy site you will have to sacrifice a great load time as sometimes I have had Flash sites go into 600K and up. My suggestion is to make a Flash site, compress it as much as you can and then make an HTML site for the minority of users without Flash as well as the users who do not like waiting for Flash to load.

I would have to agree with you, I too like simplisitic design. Thank you for your reply and pointing out some things to me that I had not realized.

Have a great weekend!

Albert