Powerbook refresh rates

[dflett]

Does anyone know why the 12" Powerbook is limited to a 75Hz refresh rate when driving an external monitor at 1600x1200?

As far as I can see, the Geforce 420 Go supports rates up to 100Hz at this resolution in other laptops. Is this a software limitation in OS X?

My monitor supports 85Hz. My eyes don't support 75Hz though. 1600x1200@85Hz is a pretty basic requirement IMO. Yes, the check box for recommended resolutions is unchecked. And no I do not want to go and buy a Cinema Display - I kinda like the IBM P96 I have at the moment.

[cellfish]

Originally posted by dflett
Does anyone know why the 12" Powerbook is limited to a 75Hz refresh rate when driving an external monitor at 1600x1200?

As far as I can see, the Geforce 420 Go supports rates up to 100Hz at this resolution in other laptops. Is this a software limitation in OS X?

My monitor supports 85Hz. My eyes don't support 75Hz though. 1600x1200@85Hz is a pretty basic requirement IMO. Yes, the check box for recommended resolutions is unchecked. And no I do not want to go and buy a Cinema Display - I kinda like the IBM P96 I have at the moment.

Tough luck dude. If you have as good of a monitor as you do (1600x1200 suggests a decent monitor), you definitely want to use it to its maximal potential. Chances are, it won't happen unless you use a different operating system. OS X loves to limit everything a user does, Mac fanatic relish this limitation but experienced users get annoyed or fed up.

Why you're asking people here to go around a limitation is beyond me though. Don't you know by now that the Mac fanatics on this web site are going to disregard your desire to keep your existing IBM monitor and force you to buy a Cinema Display? I mean come on, how can you be a loyal Apple user, doing everything Big Brother Jobs tells you to do and use something made by that evil corporation IBM (that collaborated with the Nazis in the 30's)?

I think there should be a new thread on this board called 'Discovered OS X limitations' .. you should post there and talk about what you just discovered. Then, when we discover all of OS X's limitations, we'll all celebrate and say that it's good that Apple limited us in the way that it did. Thank you big brother for protecting us from the extra 10 hz!

Andre

[Cheryl]

Originally posted by cellfish

Why you're asking people here to go around a limitation is beyond me though. Don't you know by now that the Mac fanatics on this web site are going to disregard your desire to keep your existing IBM monitor and force you to buy a Cinema Display? I mean come on, how can you be a loyal Apple user, doing everything Big Brother Jobs tells you to do and use something made by that evil corporation IBM (that collaborated with the Nazis in the 30's)?
Andre

While those of us on this forum maybe Mac fanatics, we do not force anyone to get something they do not want or need.

Everything has its limits. You just need the right equipment to do the job you expect to get.

[dflett]

Great reply cellfish LOL - I know exactly what you mean! After 'switching' only a couple of months ago, and as much as I respect Apple's products (I do) there is not harm in my opinion in asking why a limitation is there especially if it seems arbitrary to the user. And if a limitation is in a software driver - it can be fixed :-)

I expect a lot - true - but I did spend £1600 on this powerbook so I believe I have a right to. Cheryl - you are correct - nobody forced me to buy it but that does not stop me having the right to question a design or implementation limitation in an Apple product, especially when it feels to me like an arbitrary limit. We should always question everything - its how you learn and how products improve.

Why did I post this question to this forum? Simple - I thought I might get some technical answers. There are people he with real Mac and OS X expertese. Plus, I think this is one of the less religious forums out there (believe it or not). I tried the same question on another forum and got one of two sorts of replies:
1. It is technically not possible in the hardware - not enough memory, not enough bandwidth. Both of which I believe to be incorrect because the 420 Go supports 100MHz on the 'evil platform'. i.e. treating me like an idiot.
2. Describing in detail that the Display Properties screen does not contain an 85Hz option which is why I can't have it. Geez - like do they think I hadn't noticed. i.e. treating me like an idiot.

You can take fanaticism too far :-) I am probably going to get flamed for that last comment.

[cellfish]

Personally, and I know that Mac users will berate me for this, I find the Apple Macintosh platform to be the most limiting operating system on the face of the earth. Whereas most people here will say that 'OS X gets out of your way', I have never found that to be true in any respect. Hardware functions to the minimum of its potential, and most third-party peripherals will not be recognized in the operating system either. As such, it is not surprising to me that your monitor is not used to its fullest potential.

After 6 months of only using the Mac, basically giving the Mac a chance to surprise and impress me, I have only been left with a feeling of disgust for the operating environment (I find everything butt-ugly) and a hatred for the Mac enthusiasts who will never admit that their platform has faults. Back when OS 9 was competing with Windows 2000, MAc users would never admit that their operating system is trash. Now that OS X is out, nobody will ever talk about the horrible permissions system, the lack of defragmenter (you don't need a defragmenter! yeah right), the fact that 10.2 costs so much to update and no further support is given to 10.1, the fact that a crap service like .mac costs so much. the fact that unix programs don't work natively unless they are console-based, the fact that identd won't work if you have a router, the fact that upgrading the CD-RW to a non-apple will not allow it to work in apple-based programs, the fact that Apple desktops and laptops at are the furthest extreme of not being upgradeable, the surcharge on all Apple items, etc.

The more I use my Mac, the more I realize that Bill Gates was not the evil Big Brother type everybody claimed he was. As evil as he seems and as much as his OS incorporates, the fact of the matter is he is offering a lot of software for a pretty low price all things considering, all the while allowing for all sorts of different hardware configurations to function, and accomodating all different computing styles.

Mac OS X uses proprietary hardware and even then is not super stable like everyone claims. XP is not stable but look at what it accomplishes knowing that millions upon millions of different configurations are available. Then ask yourself what OS X is able to accomplish with a frew dozen different configurations. Pretty sad really.

Andre

[dflett]

As a user of both platforms I can sympathise with your comments cellfish although I don't agree with some of the points you make regarding OS X. Its a shame Apple innovate in many areas and yet make some decisions that shackle and limit the platform's potential. Their hardware and software is far from perfect but then whose is. Also you have to accept that their business model revolves around them surviving in a PC world rather than making the best possible computers from a user's perspective.

Now is there anyone reading this thread that can explain to me which part of OS X is limiting my refresh rate or how the video drivers are configured. I think my IBM P96 is a great monitor and I'd really like to use it to its potential with the powerbook.

[Cheryl]

To discuss the politics of computer companies we have the Cafe open. Thank you dflett for getting back on topic.

How is your monitor hooked up to the powerbook? Are you using an adaptor? What do you have it set to?

[dflett]

No adapter - just the cable - I assume its just a cable.