using window title-bar to navigate through open windows

**Remco** · May 6th, 2002, 03:31 AM

I already posted this idea to this forum, but it doesn't show; so here's another try.
For me a big hassle is still to navigate through open windows (OS 9 and OS X). The windows menu or the dock aren't very handy for this.
I think an easy solution for this would be the option to navigate through open windows using the window title-bar. You can already command-click on the title of a window to see the path of that window, an option which I use rarely.
It should be possible to just click on the title in the window title-bar, and it shows a list of open windows in the current application. Select the window you want at the front and it switches. Apple could even add an option-click possibility to show a list of all open windows, even of the other open applications. Very intuitive and very handy.
Putting tabs in the window title-bar for each open window could also be an option (like tabbed browsing), but, I think, will make the windows title-bar very cluttered and harder to understand for novices. Also the option to show all windows in all open applications is not really possible.

**sithious** · May 6th, 2002, 05:06 AM

much simpler: click and hold on the app's dock icon and a list of open windows within that app will pop up ... no need to clutter the titlebar...

**Remco** · May 6th, 2002, 10:16 AM

much simpler: click and hold on the app's dock icon and a list of open windows within that app will pop up ... no need to clutter the titlebar...

I think this is too much a hassle, especially when the dock is hidden. Also you have to search the app's icon (especially hard when you have many apps in the dock), and you have to click and hold, which means even more time wasted on waiting just to change a window. Just clicking on the title of the main window is much easier and faster, and there's no clutter (unless you use tabs, but for me that would be the lesser option).

**Koelling** · May 10th, 2002, 12:28 PM

I think maybe the reason your other tread dissapeared and why this one is sinking is because you don't have too much support. I think that feature would be okay but the dock seems more intuitive.

**Remco** · May 10th, 2002, 02:32 PM

No, my first post never appeared, so something went wrong there. You're right that I don't get much support here, although on other forums my idea has become a long thread and, after I explained it again, maybe better, they were very enthousiastic. I think it's more that people don't really understand what I mean; probably my fault too.
I think this idea would make MacOS the only OS that has a logical and simple handling of windows and apps. No OS I know of, has that now.
No, I don't think the dock is sufficient for window-changing. Especially when the dock is hidden it takes too long to get to the window-list, to just switch windows. It's not fast enough. And I don't think novices can easily find it. The dock is for app-switching and it has some other features too. Also, the window-menu's on the topbar aren't very fast and intuitive. It sums up the open windows, but it starts the list with additional functionality, like 'minimize', 'bring to front', etc. So, you have to look and scroll too much.
It will bother noone that the title of each window becomes a pop-up menu. It means no extra clutter. It's only a perfect way to quickly switch from one window to the next. Especially now that we haven't got window-shading anymore it's even more of a hassle to navigate through 10 open windows. With the pop-up menu it's as easy as it gets.
The extra option to control click the title of a window, so it shows all windows of all open apps is also great, which also doesn't offer extra clutter, just extra functionality.
And the fun side is, that it's intuitive and fast. I said it in another forum. I think it shows again that the way the MacOS seperates apps (tools) and windows (content; unlike windows, in which everything is a window) is the most logical way. Also the option to switch to all windows in all open apps is great, because it utilizes the multi-layer ability of OS X (each sperate window can have its own z-position now).

**nkuvu** · May 10th, 2002, 02:39 PM

I can't test this right now (I'm on WinNT) but can't you control click the icon in the Dock and get the context menu? Then the only difference is going to the Dock or going to the title bar -- theres no real difference in times there.

Also, new users would be able to find the Dock menu just as easily as the title bar menu. I don't agree that the Window menu is too slow because it has extra things in it. And it says "Window", so it's even a beacon to novices.

**Remco** · May 10th, 2002, 05:14 PM

I can't test this right now (I'm on WinNT) but can't you control click the icon in the Dock and get the context menu? Then the only difference is going to the Dock or going to the title bar -- theres no real difference in times there.

No, the difference is having to click the control key (although you can also click and hold, but that takes extra time). Also, when you have many apps in the dock (some have about 30 apps in the dock) it's hard to find the right icon, which takes time. Then the contextual menu in the dock also displays extra functionality, which takes extra time to look for the desired window. Then there's a lot of people that have the dock hidden. For them it takes even more time. The title of a window is always easy accessible and one can find it in a blink. The dock is no match here, and I personally think it's not the primary function of the dock.

Also, new users would be able to find the Dock menu just as easily as the title bar menu. I don't agree that the Window menu is too slow because it has extra things in it. And it says "Window", so it's even a beacon to novices.

No, all the novice users I know use the dock as a app-switcher and/or an starter, like dragthing (although dragthing is much better as a starter-app). They couldn't care less about the option to option-click it to see more options. It's not obviously there.
The window-menu is not always on the same place (the title of the window, relatively to the window you're working in, is), so, you lose time looking for it. Then there's the list you have to scroll to find the window you want upfront. My Explorer window-menu has 'minimize window, bring all to front, explorer, favorites, history, download manager, cycle through windows', and then there's my list of open windows. It's too cluttered to be able to quickly choose a window. Also I find myself hardly using the menu because of this. Maybe if you never use more than one or two windows (I'm sure lots of you used the window-shade feature of OS 9 to quickly see what window is behind the front window) it's no big deal, but for power-users, I think, it's a great feature. Anyway, I can't find a more logical and faster way to implement such a feature.
And Apple already made the command-click on the title feature to see what the path of a finderwindow or a browserwindow is. So, implementing this would be a piece of cake.

**Koelling** · May 12th, 2002, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Remco
My Explorer window-menu has 'minimize window, bring all to front, explorer, favorites, history, download manager, cycle through windows', and then there's my list of open windows. It's too cluttered to be able to quickly choose a window. Also I find myself hardly using the menu because of this.

Should I take the cheep shot? No but I will mention that it had something to do with Mozilla and Tabbed browsing... And IE sucks.

I am glad that you clarified your point though, I do agree now that the standard is set for such an UI, it just needs to be implemented. Good call on that.