Talk to important people?

[philbert]

Ok, whatever. I understand your position, because I get it everytime I deal with Apple.

You are completely entitled to your view, and I do think what you've said does pretty accurately represent the Apple culture.

No, every Mac is not defective. Only about half of them in my experience. No, they don't do it on purpose. Sloppy quality control, lack of concern with their reputation, that's all. And yes, they do honor their warranties, I can certify that.

So, if it doesn't bother you to spend your time fixing other people's mistakes, you are all set.

I know you feel you are defending Apple, and I concur with your sentiment. But from my point of view, there is no reason for Apple to exist if they are going to mimick the mediocrity of the other manufacturers. You seem to have lost the Apple dream, which I can understand. I still hang on to a thread of sentiment that Apple can and should be better than everybody else, and that creates a reason for it's existence.

It's hard to be better than everybody else, or be perceived to be better, when you've forgotten about normal common everyday courtesy. I make a mistake, I fix it, I say sorry to those inconvenienced. Business Diplomacy 101, very simple stuff. The kids at the lemonade stand get it.

I'm supporting the original Apple dream, you are supporting and encouraging the path to failure.

Imho, of course.

[fryke]

"You seem to have lost the Apple dream." ... ? ... The original "Apple dream", if there is any, is to create "computers for the rest of us". I'm part of that rest, it seems. I'm still part of that dream. Has nothing to do with apologies. Again: Yes, quality control must be improved (always, anyway). But apologies are just that. And not needed. Apple needs to sell products that aren't faulty. But if they _do_ ship faulty products, they need to quickly replace or fix them. No apology needed. That's not a path to mediocrity, btw., but a path to good support.

[cfleck]

This has nothing to do with apple, actually. I'm saying it's completely ridiculous to expect a company, any company, to apologize when a product is defective. These things happen. You even mentioned in one of your posts that QC is another issue, so I'm not touching that.

It sounds to me like you are living in the Apple dream by expecting them (and seemingly only them) to issue apologies for defective units. If you expect the same from Hoover and GE maybe it's just that you hold companies to higher standards or need a self-esteem boost from them, but it seems you are stuck on Apple being your best friend and hand delivering your unit.

Not gonna happen.

[lilbandit]

I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting some sort of apology if someone sells you a dodgy item. Cfleck why is it so ridiculous to expect someone to say or write the equivalent of sorry we sent you a dud, it shouldn't have happened. That doesn't mean that the customer wants to be friends or expect hand delivered equipment. If you walked into a restaurant/pub/highstreet shop and paid for an item/meal/drink that turned out to be dodgy, you would get an apology. Why exclude a large company from this?

[kainjow]

If a company is smart, they will apologize for the problems they have caused to the customer. They have "wasted" the customer's time, so they should at least realize this, and take a look at it from the customer's view, and admit their mistake. If done so properly, with good manners, then this will cause the customer to better enjoy the service and support, and the customer will mention it to other people, who will see the company in good light, and consider or even make a purchase from them. So in the end, a 5 second apology can go a long way, even if it's just the customer service rep on the other line saying it, or a formal letter to the customer. It really is Business 101.

Now you shouldn't go around expecting apologies from every company/person who isn't perfect. If you are, then you will be greatly disappointed.

[ElDiabloConCaca]

I still think expecting an apology is wishing for a little much. Do you want your boss to make you say aloud, "I'm sorry," when you make a little boo-boo at work? No -- I'm sure the boss just expects you to fix it and carry on... not make a vocal, public redemption of your character every time something doesn't turn out as intended.

If I get a bad unit from Apple, all I want is the problem to be fixed in a courteous, speedy manner, which they usually do. Unless someone is rude, out-of-line or downright condescending to me, I don't wanna hear, "I'm sorry," because, as you say, that's my 5 seconds that they're wasting when they could begin processing the repair.

Why is it so important to hear/read the words, "I'm sorry"? Isn't it an implied apology when Apple fixes your unit? From what I hear, they do make house calls, do not charge shipping (when other companies do) and do it quickly and efficiently. Screw the apology -- no one screwed up! Defects are a fact of life and expecting every machine that rolls off the assembly line to function perfectly is more wishful thinking. Some bad units get shipped, and Apple replaces/repairs them willingly, without incident, and in a timely and courteous manner. Plus, one, single person is not responsible for the defective unit -- expecting someone to apologize on behalf of Apple is, yes, even more wishful thinking.

Admission of a mistake is not the same thing as an apology. Apple fixing computers long out of warranty is an admission of a mistake and no apology is needed nor warranted. Just retroactive and proactive actions to rectify the situation.

Sorry to be blunt/rude, but it seems to me that people that demand apologies for minor, little, petty stuff like a defective unit act like they need their egos inflated more than a working computer.

Now, before we continue this thread, I'd like a full apology for this site being down once or twice in the past few years for more than an hour at a time. It severely inconvenienced me and, being the upstanding system administrators that you are, should email or PM me an immediate apology.

[pds]

Philbert - come to Egypt for a couple of weeks. You'll be so sick and tired of the words "Ana Aisef" - "I'm sorry." you won't ever want to hear them again.

The only real apology needed is to get things back in shape, quickly. When they speedily send you a replacement, that's a apology in action - much better than the words.

And when they tighten up QC and ship better products, that's a apology in action too. The iBook Logic Board Replacement Policy - an apology in action that I have had to avail to twice. The iBook G4 - another apology in action, a solution to a problem they found.

I agree that build quality is not what it used to be (though still better than most). I too hope for an apology - but in action, not in words.

[cfleck]

Cfleck why is it so ridiculous to expect someone to say or write the equivalent of sorry we sent you a dud, it shouldn't have happened. That doesn't mean that the customer wants to be friends or expect hand delivered equipment. If you walked into a restaurant/pub/highstreet shop and paid for an item/meal/drink that turned out to be dodgy, you would get an apology.

It is ridiculous to expect because it doesn't happen and the poster in questions seems to think since Apple is so cool, that they should. If companies apologizing for defective products was common practice the tune would change, I assure you.

I don't feel like your pub analogy holds water here on a couple of fronts. For one, on the majority, you aren't talking about apologizing for bad food. You are talking about bad service in a personal atmosphere.

Add to that the fact that most of the time you are talking about the server doing the apologizing and I'd have a hard time believing that isn't 90% due to wanting to salvage some sort of tip.