Tiger

fjdouse · #1 September 8th, 2005, 10:36 AM

Catharsis is good for the soul, when we bottle up gripes they grow and then all manner of problems can arise, so I'm going to vent my rage..
..this IS a rant, feel free to ignore it or disagree or join in.

Am I the only one who is disappointed by Tiger?

It seems like so much was promised but never delivered, or at least, not delivered to the kind of quality I expect from Apple.

Widgets seem to be the only thing worthwhile, I'd really like to run some kind of system monitor on my mini, you know, CPU, memory et al. but everything I've tried seems to slow the system down more than anything else! Don't even get me started on how poorly widgets were implemented in 10.4! I would have written them off if it wasn't for the fact that a system update to 10.4.2 made them more usable.

Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious? Am I being paranoid?

Mail. To me, Apple have taken my plate of caviar and replaced it with a shyte sandwich (to quote someone I encountered online), the new Mail app is crap. Looks ok but feels really awkward, no visual indicator of activity, unless one uses the Activity viewer which is crap in itself. There is a heap of empty space on the toolbar, or whatever you want to call that empty space with the odd-looking buttons. Yes there is mail enhancer and some other crack to make it look like before, BUT WHY should we have to do all that?

Crashes, I'm getting far more crashes under Tiger than Panther, I've not got quantifiable figures to quote but I'm spending more time dealing with problems than before, apps which just crash, performance problems requiring me to get agressive with things like Onyx or TCC or worse still that frakkin spinning ball, my nemesis, which has spun for upto 15mins a go before I literally rip the power cord out the back of the Mac while screaming holy hell.

Oh Apple, thanks for the latest round of updates, I don't know what you did but my peppy little mini ran like a slow old dog after I'd updated. Even tinkering with TCC hasn't got things back as they were. I'll write the new sluggishness off as a 'feature' shall I?

Where the is the look and feel going? I can't figure it out, plasticy aqua and brushed metal is fine, but now the smooth plastic-like appearance of Mail adds a third look-n-feel which is getting really inconsistent. Now, last night, you know what I did? I updated to iTunes 5, lovely I must admit, I can finally get rid of those stupidly useless podcasts but we now have a fourth look-n-feel? So, Apple, what are you guys doing? My system is looking more and more like a poorly co-ordinated Linux setup!

I don't know how others feel, but I am really disappointed on the whole, maybe I gave in to Apple's corporate jibber, which I'm not usually prone to, but I expected something better than Panther and with the exception of widgets (coz I've made some cool Dalek widgets ;-) ) I think Apple have dropped the ball and the product -as it sits on my hard drive right now-, feels disjointed and just isn't as nice as I'd hoped. If I could, I'd get my money back and go back to Panther. Sure, I could do this and that, install this hack or that to fix various problems - BUT I shouldn't have to, this is why I moved from Linux to OSX, so I could leave that way of working behind.

Anyone else vexed? I dunno about here, but I've spoken to a few people in the real world who are equally as unimpressed by Tiger as I am.

**fryke** · #2 September 8th, 2005, 11:06 AM

Phew! Lemme answer some of the points...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjdouse

Am I the only one who is disappointed by Tiger?

Guess not. Lots of threads about it to be found all over the forum...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjdouse

Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious? Am I being paranoid?

Well: The concern was there at the beginning, but the problem was solved over time - and very well solved, I think. Is your system updated to the newest version where you can put the widgets in a testbed before installing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjdouse

Crashes, I'm getting far more crashes under Tiger than Panther, I've not got quantifiable figures to quote but I'm spending more time dealing with problems than before, apps which just crash, performance problems requiring me to get agressive with things like Onyx or TCC or worse still that frakkin spinning ball, my nemesis, which has spun for upto 15mins a go before I literally rip the power cord out the back of the Mac while screaming holy hell.

Well, you _have_ to keep in mind that you're comparing the very _end_ of refinement of Panther with early updates of Tiger...

I agree totally with you on Mail's and iTunes' look with you. I REALLY hope that Apple gets its act together at least with Leopard - although they'd better get it back together MUCH earlier and finally find a way to get consistency back!

nixgeek · #3 September 8th, 2005, 11:16 AM

The inconsistency thing is something I would expect in the open source desktop environments like GNOME and KDE on open source operating systems. But this is Apple, and they NEED to really do something about the inconsistencies. Most of us are used to the GUI consistency from the pre-OS X days. Personally I find this indecision to use one theme unacceptable. It takes away from the Macintosh Experience, IMO, and presents a poor example of what an well-designed OS should look like.

fjdouse · #4 September 8th, 2005, 11:40 AM

Ah, words of wisdom from a fellow UNIXer, you're right, I'd allow it to slip on KDE or GNOME, but this is a paid-for product, not flippin cheap either and a critical part of the Mac user experience is the consistancy and predictablilty of use of the GUI. Take the red close button on the top-left of apps, sometimes it closes the window, sometimes it closes the app itself - WHY, DAMMIT?

Fryke ol' chap, you're right about comparing the final Panther with an early Tiger, but if Apple cannot release the first Tiger to be at least AS GOOD as the final Panther, then, frankly, they are not doing their job right and ARE letting us down. I expect Tiger 10.4 to be everything 10.3.9 was PLUS more. Perhaps they should focus a bit more on the software, which is obviously slipping, rather than bloody music players. I am not sure about this 'testbed' Fryke, can you describe it for me? ;-)

I must say, I DO like the new iTunes interface, perhaps (I HOPE) it's a taste of things to come, but I shouldn't have to BUY something like Shapeshifter to make everything look consistant right now. For Gods sake Apple! Just put a damn theme manager in, if can't make up your mind on how things should look - devolve the power to users.

nixgeek · #5 September 8th, 2005, 01:44 PM

I just installed it on an iMac 600 MHz running Jaguar 10.2.8 and it looks great. It also feels snappy to me.

As for teh theme manager, I hear ya. Man I've been wishing for that for years now even with Mac OS 9. Yes, the Appearance Manager was there, but it didn't "theme" like it was supposed to. What I find funny is that Apple prevented a lot of people (back in the Kaleidoscope days) to fiddle with the Mac OS theme and now they can't decide on which one to use. And this is worse because WE CAN'T FIX IT PROPERLY!

As you mentioned fjdouse, Steve Jobs needs to get back on track with the Mac. I'm starting to think that many of these changes that have taken place are a way to move Apple away from the Mac and into something else. Remember that originally Jobs was against the Mac, while Woz and others were for it. Jobs tried to push for the Lisa and a continuation of the Apple line (non-Mac that is) but when he noticed that it was a failed venture, he jumped ship and supported that Macintosh all the way. Sometimes I lose respect for him only because of things like this. It's a shame that Woz was the one that always got the shaft even though he had the greatest ideas around.

Mikuro · #6 September 8th, 2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjdouse

Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious? Am I being paranoid?

No, you're not being paranoid. The good news is that you can just turn it off. In Safari's preferences, uncheck the "open 'safe' files after downloading" (don't those quotes around the word safe just give you so much confidence?

). This has actually been a big gaping hole since before Tiger. The good news is every time an exploit is discovered, Apple is reasonably quick to fix it. The bad news is exploits keep being found again and again. The widget vulnerability was just the latest. There were at least a couple that affected Panther, too.

The whole "open 'safe' files after downloading" option should go. It's a downright Microsoftian feature. It's just a disaster waiting to happen. I've said that since day 1, and I've been proven right time after time. Thankfully the malware writers don't seem to care to exploit these things.

I agree with you completely about the appearance issue. Read my rants in the iTunes 5 thread for my detailed opinions on that matter.

Overall, I'm very disappointed in Tiger. True, you can say it's unfair to compare the "young" Tiger to the "mature" Panther, but....Panther was pretty good from the start. There were issues, yes, but I could still recommend it wholeheartedly. I still can't recommend Tiger to Panther users. Spotlight was implemented half-assedly, and that was the BIG new feature.

Stability has been fine for me, but performance has been downright painful. I've kind of just gotten used to the fact that everything's so slow and that the beach ball (we really need a better name for that thing, cuz it's like no beach ball I've ever seen!) is a regular part of my life now.

If I weren't a developer, I would have downgraded after a few days with Tiger. But as a developer, I really like to be on the edge. So I make do.

Honestly, every move Apple's made lately has made me think more and more of ditching the Mac altogether. I just wish there were something better I could turn to......

**fryke** · #7 September 8th, 2005, 04:47 PM

That "testbed" (I probably used some weird term in my mind that didn't really exist?) is the widget installer. If you double-click a widget in the Finder or Safari wants to install it to the Dashboard directly, you can now - in 10.4.2 and 10.4.3 - run the widget inside the widget installer, without letting the widget have access to the Terminal stuff etc.

fjdouse · #8 September 23rd, 2005, 12:18 PM

Yes it does that.

To add, I'm now a breath away from reinstalling my Mac back to Panther, I really think Tiger is pure sh*t. It runs like a dog on my mini, I'm furious with how poorly my Mac now performs, after installing a few apps and loading in some extra Garageband loops, the system is virtually unusable, it takes forever to startup and all the repairing and fixing utils in the world isn't helping.

I WANT MY MONEY BACK