geeks vs. computer users

[edX]

in the year that i have hung out around here i have come to notice the distinctions between computer users and geeks. the surprising thing about this is that up until i visited here, i've never met a mac geek before. power users, yes, true geeks, no. and the reason is because macs have traditionally been the computer for idiots. having been a mac user for almost 20 years, you must understand i say this lovingly and without malice. mac owners have always been computer users. they own macs because they're easy to use, easy to fix and almost impossible to break. they get work done, they provide some play time and then they move on with their lives. go outside and hike, play some ball, watch a movie, go to the bar and try to score, read a book. anything but think about their computer some more.

for computer users, the mac sits on its desk or a table or wherever is the most convient place to access it when you need or want to. for geeks, whole rooms have to be dedicated to enshrine the objects of their true passions. computer users buy a computer that works like they expect it to and take it home, set it up, and use it. they don't think about things like updates and shareware and such until someone else tells them to - either thru a product announcement, requirements for the latest software they bought or the tech support guy who says it will fix the problem they've been having. geeks thrive on having the latest of everything before it is released, even if that means risking screwing up everything they already have working.

computer users call somebody to fix their computer and eventually learn to take care of the common problems themselves. they don't spend days reading specs and comparing caches. they occassionalloy cuss at their computers, but mostly because it looks silly to be cussing at yourself. geeks call somebody else as a last resort. only after they've changed every component they can reach and reformatted a dozen times. or at least checked with other geeks at the forums and chat rooms. geeks know every name of every part of every computer off the tops of their heads. they know the codenames and compatibilities and what cards fit in which slots and, well they know more about that kind of stuff than i even know enough about to guess what it is. i get the feeling sometime that they would get excited to find out the shoe size of the person who did the final inspection of their cpu chip.

i'm sure this list could go on and on, but what's the point. you know which you are by now. you probably knew before you opened this thread. but i didn't know till i found this site. my position here has always been - "mac user". i know what i know from experience that includes many trials and tribulations. but using a mac is practiaclly second nature to me. or was before os x. it took me a while to learn the new approach - the new attitude if you will. and it is this new attitude that has attracted all the geeks to macs. all the 'nixers and switchers and self proclaimed computer experts. these new mac geeks speak a different language than me. they see the computer in very different ways than i do. still, i have benefitted immensely from their help. and i think a few of them have benefitted from mine since despite all the nix, it's still a mac thing.

but at some points in some discussions i have to step back and realize that i am taking to geeks, not computer using freaks like myself. we see the world from different points of view that aren't going to be changed by a forum discussion. probably not even from face to face encounters unless they were my clients in therapy and then i might be able to lead them to new sources of their own light, but that's a different thing. and the thing i find so frustrating about geeks, is their disdain for computer users. people who just want things to work are beneath them. people who don't care about the biggest and fastest cpu chip are ignorant in their eyes. of course, these ultra geeks are not real big on social skills anyway, so being concerned about others isn't high on their list. what matters is being right about computer stuff. (yes, 'stuff' is one of the more modern technical terms i do know.)

at any rate, my question is this, how do the mac faithful communicate with the new macgeeks, or igeeks? At what point do we get them to understand that macs are what we made them thru years of buying the product and loving what we bought? it was never about mhz, ghz, cache size, etc. it was about a computer that did what you wanted it to, didn't break down every month and simple enough a grown man could fix it.

where is this going, i'm not real sure. i just know that while i tend to like mac users, i'm not so sure that some of our new osx fans are "mac users'. they're snobby geeks who are just thrilled to finally have some eye candy to go with their terminal commands. and once they got that, all they can do is whine about all they gave up to get it. for some reason or another i don't feel very sorry for them. to quote an old hippie saying, "you're either on the bus or off the bus". there is no standing at the door of the bus and telling the driver how to drive. if you don't like the trip, go back to your pc. w

i'm sorry if i've offended anybody. but sometimes i feel real offended by the way some people here treat my views on real world computer use vs. their super tech knowledge. those of you have felt like i was an online friend can rest assured this is not aimed at you - no matter how geeeky you are . your social skills and reasoning powers have been shown to be fine. for the rest of you, computer users and geeks alike, maybe think about how we can make this forum and our discussions a little more inclusive of both sides, without having to belittle each other.

i'm sure i've said some things here that will be misinterpretted. i'm sure i've said things here that don't say enough. i'm sure i've messed up what i really wanted to communicate in the first place, but at least i started. this has been a long time building up for me and tonite i had the time and the inspiration to start it. maybe i'll have the time to continue it later. maybe you'll take the time to add your perceptions of mac users vs. igeeks. maybe not.
theed - remember my old habit of always ending a post with a song lyric?

"does anybody really know what time it is,
does anybody really care?"

[edX]

of course nobody will read this anyway because it's in the opinions forum and they only want to be bothered and shoot their opinions aabout stuff off in the news forum. i still don't believe that we had a new member come by and try to be friendly in the cafe and only myself and tormente have responded. talk about lack of social skills.

i should say nobody but macluv will read this, but he is a totally different frustration for me than most of my above post. but i'll save that for later.

[TommyWillB]

For me it all comes down to time...

When I'm short of it I look to my Mac as a tool I need to "use" to get something done.

When I have extra time I look at my Mac as something to help me play/learn/grow... That's when the geeky side of me comes out.

I'm happy to say that I've converted my Mom to be an OS X user, but my boyfriend is still clinging to OS 9... I think that's because he's seen me blow things up too many times (always when I was in "geek" mode vs. "user" mode) so he's convinced it is "not ready" for users like him.

[Sogni]

Well, I consider myself to be a Computer Geek,
This is basically my story:
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/giannijacklone.html
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/giannijacklone.html

I hated Macs my entire life.
I was a Microsoft Flag Carrier for the longest time.
I got my first computer at age 11 (Tandy 1000 EX)
I purchased my first Windows PC in '94
I BUILT my first PC in '95
I was promoted from "Web Designer" to "IT Manager" for a small ISP/Webhoster in '98 and have been working on all kinds of PCs from Workstations, to Network and Web Servers, to Multi-Processor Intel XEON Servers (heck, build and installed a multi processor XEON Server at a Web Farm and I thought I was in Disneyland! I didn't want to leave!).

I've installed, supported and repaired systems with:
Windows 3.11, NT3, NT4 Workstation, NT4 Server, 95 (a,b,c&gold), 98 (1st&2nd Editions), ME, 2000 Pro, 2000 Server, 2000 Advanced Server, XP Pro, RedHat Linux 5.2 through 7.1 and had my hand in a few Caldera Distros (altho my knowledge is very limited on the Linux side - I don't do programing).

So you can imagine that I greatly resent and try not to take it personally when people say that I know nothing of PCs because I'm a "Mac Lover"... they don't know me very well - do they?

You can say I'm a Geek! With a resume like that, what else can you call me?


As far as caring about the fastest MHZs, biggest Cache, etc...
The first question I ask is, "what are you going to use it for?"

Hmmm... this is a surprise, most people I talk to do NOT need the fastest or biggest at all...

Some even realized they where happier with a Mac.

A friend's wife was in shock when I was talking Macs with two of my friends "I thought you where a PC Guy" - and she nearly fainted when her husband (Mac user since the beginning) turned to her, paused, and said "He HAS a Mac and has been using one for a year now! Hell he has a better one that all of ours combined" lol

Oh heck, I no longer know where I'm going with this either! It just feels so good! Just like my Mac!

Oh but I still love PCs and Microsoft, I now have my own business because of them!

[Izzy]

I know exactly where you are coming from Ed...and I totally agree with you. I've been a mac user my entire computer functioning life, but I never took it any further than that. Sure I tell all of my friends about it, and everyone that knows me knows that I use Macs, but I've never gotten so into it that I've lost perspective.

Computers remain a tool to get work done and make life a little more bearable. We have fun with them and spend a lot of our free time using them, but when all the chips are laid down, there are priorities in life that supercede this tech life. I think that's what a lot of these "computer geeks" don't understand...that for some people the computer isn't the end-all meaning of life. Someone can love their computer and not be obsessed with it.

I've felt a slow chilling of the warmth that used to exist in the mac community. Where once there were smiles all around you are now seeing a lot more hostility. These new "unix gurus" coming over to the mac and all of the new "switchers" are not blending in with the old mac community. They are taking over and telling everyone to get out of the way...at least that's how I've seen a lot of them act.

I'm still getting my feet wet with MacOSX and I know OF certain things. I don't have hours a day to sit and learn unix/terminal commands...I know nothing about kernels, net info managers, or even what the heck perl is. School and life take up too much time to worry about what speed my RAM is or where my swap file is (I still don't know what this is all about...LOL).

I'm glad that the mac community is now drawing the truly computer savvy, I just wish that these people would take a look around before stepping into the room. Maybe walk around and shake a couple hands before starting to look down on those who don't share their passion for command line. At the end of the day we aren't going to take our computers with us, and the only thing we leave behind is our impact on other people. Everyone logs out sooner or later...

[edX]

tommy - sounds more like your bf is really saying he's not ready for os x yet. or more specifically, he's not ready to learn something new. Hey, at least you're in an all mac relationship.

tormente - nice confessional. i really liked that. getting this stuff off our chests does have a somewhat cathartic effect, doesn't it?

and while i think you guys pretty much know me well enought to read between the lines and realize i'm not anit-geek, your replies reassured me some that i hadn't gotten too out of hand.

to be sure - i'm not trying to knock geeks in general. the world would be a much less cool place without you guys. but there is a difference between being a geek and being a geek if you know what i mean. and obviously i have enjoyed a lot of geek company by hanging out here for the last year. i would even admit that some geekiness has rubbed off on me. but when cpu speeds and video cards and cache sizes get in the way of us all getting along as a community of mac users, then it is time to figure out what is wrong i think. maybe you'll come back for part 2 - mac users vs. multiplatform users.

[edX]

izzy - you snuck that one in while i was composing my previous post. i think you helped expand on what i was trying to say very nicely. i would just clarrify that not all terminal jockeys are like that. some of them around here have been quite helpful to me over time and good friends as well. i can think of testuser and hazmet right off the top of my head. there are others to be sure.

oh and izzy - you're gonna make a fine docter some day i think.

(isn't there a ZZ top song about a "perl necklace"?

[Izzy]

Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
izzy - you snuck that one in while i was composing my previous post. i think you helped expand on what i was trying to say very nicely. i would just clarrify that not all terminal jockeys are like that. some of them around here have been quite helpful to me over time and good friends as well. i can think of testuser and hazmet right off the top of my head. there are others to be sure.

oh and izzy - you're gonna make a fine docter some day i think.

(isn't there a ZZ top song about a "perl necklace"?

haha...didn't mean to steal your thunder Ed

I'm glad you made this thread though, and I also want to make clear that I'm not saying that all of the very savvy are the same...it's just that the general feeling I've gotten. (Being more of a browser here than a poster the last few months)

Thanks for the vote of confidence too It's nice to hear those every once and a while

LOL...I'll leave that perl necklace train of thought alone...not touching that one with a ten foot pole