vista ramblings.

[Qion]

Originally Posted by fryke

Again... "making everything this universal dull grey in leopard just seems half arsed to me..."

1.) They're _not_ making everything Unified. Just the already Unified apps plus the brushed metal ones. In my book, that is what they should've done when introducing Unified in the first place.

2.) "dull" is good. Monotony is one of the great principles of interface design. The focus should be on the content. It fades into the back of your mind. Adobe gets it completely right. See the interface for Adobe CS 3 apps like Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop.

Speaking of the CS3 apps, the icons they are illustrated with are the dullest and most monotonous that they've ever been. I love the new interfaces, however.

I believe Fryke is right, and that it's really a bit childish to keep wanting prettier UI's; they're distracting for we professionals. However, one of the things that drew me to OS X so much in the first place was the fact that it inspired me to be creative. The UI itself almost seemed a compliment to my workflow, if not just for being gorgeously different than the Toys-R-Us XP interface. Now that I've been using OS X for years, the brushed metal has become outdated and in a lot of ways the Finder has as well. That is why I want something different; it's not to be prettier than MS -that felt very strange to say-, but to be inspired yet again by the system I use to make my livelihood.

[Rhisiart]

Eye candy is pretty fickle. Functionality is more important, not just for professionals, but hobbyists too.

The current Mac OS, albeit with some Finder issues, is still superior.

[bbloke]

I've not been fortunate/unfortunate enough to play with Vista, I only know about it what I've seen or read on the internet. I was intrigued by the display of windows in 3D, but I don't know how well this works in practice. I also liked the idea of windows becoming transparent when in the background. That said, much of Vista seemed surprisingly like the rest of the Windows family to me, however, as I had been expecting a more radical shake up over the years.

I'm not really an expert on design or on user interfaces, but I thought I'd throw in a few thoughts.

With regards to OS X, I remember thinking it looked years ahead of everything else and I was really keen to be able to play with it (migrating from System 8.6), rather than just read about it. The genie effect for the Dock was one that wowed many people I knew, and the ability for QuickTime movies to keep playing when minimized in the Dock also impressed people at the time. Now, however, there are times when I think some of the style is a bit dated.

Like many people here, I really would like Apple to be more consistent when it comes to the GUI. I don't mind if there are separate styles for the system and for applications, but I don't like the assortment of appearances we now have. I must admit I was wary of the unified look when Tiger's Mail was first shown off, but I have come to quite like it. I also prefer the slightly toned down style of Aqua that we currently have. I sometimes think the very "bulging" buttons we have (eg. buttons and radio buttons on web pages) are a bit over the top now.

I quite like the full screen interface that one can access in iPhoto (with the dark appearance) and I have to admit... I actually... quite liked the iTunes 7 interface... although I know I must be in the minority! I don't know whether I prefer iTunes 6 or iTunes 7, I quite like them both. I felt the old Aqua buttons of the early versions looked a bit ugly, and I was a bit unsure of the Aqua scrollbars. When the Finder incorporated the brushed metal windows, I liked the capabilities but hated the style; they seemed a bit "bloated" and ugly to me. I would like to see brushed metal disappear, although it was interesting in the 1990s.

A lot of OS X's features are not really used enough by me. I virtually never use the "Services" sub-menu. I infrequently use Exposé, although I recognize it can be very useful! I only started using it once I bought a multi-button mouse. Even now, I still tend to use the "Hide" command for any applications I'm not currently working with. I don't tend to use Folder Actions, AppleScript, Automator, or other items that do sound useful. I'm probably used to a certain way of working that suits me just fine, and don't tend to explore too much unless I really feel the need to. Odd, really, as I'm the type who usually quite enjoys tinkering with new things!

Without wanting to deviate from the thread too much, I do think there are a few things that could be better within the Finder. "Live updates," when files are changed, are not quick enough and sometimes files must be clicked on to update. "Show item info" for the Desktop does not seem to update for my hard disks unless I log out and log back in. And there are a few other niggles. That said, I still vastly prefer the OS X experience to any other OS. It has the occasional flaws, but I find it gets in my way a lot less than others.

Overall, I think a good GUI should be one you don't notice. An intrusive UI that is constantly "in your face" is the antithesis of what I like...

[symphonix]

I remember a good article from a few years back - if anyone else can remember the title that would be nice. It was by a computer scientist who was calling for a *real* rethink of the way we design GUIs, and in the context of the article neither Apple nor Microsoft have made one iota of progress in the last 5 years.

The article's first tenet was that interface elements, especially icons, should be designed according to what something is, and not some abstract unrelated idea. For instance, movie file icons should have symbology that relates to movies (for example, a movie camera) and the content of the file (eg: sprocket holes down the side of the keyframe picture). Instead, we have "Q" for most QuickTime files, and "W" for Microsoft Word files. Its little wonder people still find computers hard to come to grips with.

Adobe makes it worse, not just by choosing different feathers for their app icons (pretty much completely unrelated to what the applications actually do), but by changing these unrelated designs with every version.

Yes, I think the GUI looks dated. But I don't think Vista is really any better, just newer. Apple and Microsoft still have a long way to go.

[bbloke]

Originally Posted by symphonix

I remember a good article from a few years back - if anyone else can remember the title that would be nice. It was by a computer scientist who was calling for a *real* rethink of the way we design GUIs, and in the context of the article neither Apple nor Microsoft have made one iota of progress in the last 5 years.

Was it written by Jef Raskin, by any chance? It sounds like the sort of thing he was often saying.

[powermac]

Just some earlier morning ranting....ignore as needed

Fryke I like how you said it. When using Vista even after a few hours, then you return to OSX, it feels like a real mature OS. Vista just feels second-rate. I admit, I like the green, and bluish colors, over the dull grey metal interface. In the end, OSX simply wins on functionality. Vista, at least to me, is more "wow", and really does not allow smoother or better functionality than XP.
The question comes down to, where does functionality start and end with modern computer interfaces? What balance between eye-candy features and functionality does one want or need?
In the end, OSX provides more balance between functionality and eye-candy features. Vista, appears to me they added some eye-candy over XP functionality. In some areas of the OS it has hindered functionality, while in others is remains the same as XP.

A friend of mine, who is not a Mac user, nor anti-mac, said OSX looks a bit retro, like classic computer. When he said that, a part wanted to start on a verbal exchange on how OSX is modern, certainly not considered "classic."
Then, I thought, okay perhaps some elements of OSX are retro.

In my office at work, I exchanged my Dell for a Imac CRT G3. Using OS9, makes me realize, how at that time, the speed of the interface, and yet how simple with no sidebar, or even top of finder window. Yet, how quickly old OS9 habits come back. Even though I have not used OS9 for many years. Then I come home, and get right back into OSX habits. This behavior alone must account for something when using computers. Windows, I have not develop any habits. I still feel clumsy when navigating around, trying to find and save files. For me, XP nor Vista invite drag & drop. Even though I know you can it does not seem native to do on Windows. How quick I am to automatically start dragging files around OSX.
Both platforms, as we know have flaws, and strengths. OSX for me wins in the end because it functions as I believe a OS should, non-intrusive. Second, OSX feels more intuitive, mature, and safe than any flavor of Windows.

[Rhisiart]

Mac OS X is bound to look a little dated compared with Vista, given that MS have been working on this version since the end of the Boer War.

I am sure Mac OS XI will equally dazzle, albeit in a more sober and functional way.

I have seen Vista in action. Fine if you enjoy acid flashbacks, but I want a professional looking GUI and Apple still fits the bill, Uno or no Uno.

[symphonix]

Originally Posted by bbloke

Was it written by Jef Raskin, by any chance? It sounds like the sort of thing he was often saying.

Thank You, I think that it was.

Mac OS X is bound to look a little dated compared with Vista, given that MS have been working on this version since the end of the Boer War.