What? Repair Permissions again?

diablojota · #1 March 22nd, 2004, 11:33 AM

Okay, another rant from the Diablo...
It seems like every other post we have to tell someone to repair their permissions and try again.
Repair your permissions...
Repair your permissions...
Repair your permissions...
Repair your permissions...
Repair your... alright, you get the point. Is Apple going to do something about this? Instead of having to boot from the CD, or other media, and allow you to repair permissions on the fly? Perhaps on restart run repair permission, or make it some sort of scheduled task?

Is there even a way?

Or perhaps after a prod installation, update, etc, the repair permissions is automatically started.

How about the fsck as well? Could this also in some way be done in some other form instead of booting into Single-user mode?

In my opinion, this is one way Apple has moved in the wrong direction in regards to ease of use. The average newbie Mac user will not know how to do all these things. Apple was always the company that made things so retardedly easy to use that they probably coined the term 'keep it simple, keep it stupid'.

What are your opinions/suggestions on this?

DeltaMac · #2 March 22nd, 2004, 11:50 AM

Your normal repair permissions should not be done from a boot CD, as the process cannot scan the installed packages for a complete repair. A final correct Repair Permisssions can only be done from the booted system.

I think the additional time for an automated Repair Permissions, added to the sometimes ridiculous amount of time for 'optimizing', is not reasonable with a system install or upgrade. Plus, IMHO, a restart is usually indicated after a Repair Permissions (even though not ASKED FOR, restart should be done, the permissions repair seems to leave the system less responsive without an immediate reboot, in my experience)
Hopefully, a system update soon will make the repair permissions less needed, or more of a background process (similar to what Update Pre-binding is now with Jaguar and Panther)

naodx · #3 March 22nd, 2004, 01:08 PM

The only disk that you need to repair permissions on is the disk with OS X on it. You can do this directly from disk utility while started up from OS X, no need to reboot from a cd.

I've never seen a need to restart my system after repairing permissions, and I wouldn't see a reason why you would need to.

Repairing permissions is normal, and something related to the unix underpinnings of OS X. If you've never played around with any type of *nix, and come straight from an OS 9 background, where files didn't have permissions, this may seem a little strange to you.

I usually run it about once a week, and after every update/install that I do.

diablojota · #4 March 23rd, 2004, 03:28 AM

Okay, first I need to apologize about my mistyping of the reboot and repair permissions... I was typing this in a hurry as I was at work.
Second, let me go into my background a little. I am a MCSE, I use and have used Linux for the last 5 years, and I have had a Mac since they were first introduced. I adopted OS X when it first came out, and sucked badly.
I understand the *nix underpinnings, and very well.
However, what I am saying is that Apple is supposed to be appealing to your STFU people, as it was in the past.
All I was trying to saying is that Apple needs to get their sh*t together and start working on making it simple again. I don't use my Mac so I can fix it all the time. If I wanted to fix stuff, I would use my Win XP box.
A Recent Switcher would probably also not be familiar with how to run the repair permissions. Also, they would never have to do this in Windows, even with the degredation of the OS.

naodx · #5 March 23rd, 2004, 03:47 AM

Well I know that from my own experience I'm a little 'retentive' about making sure everything is working properly whether their is something there is something wrong or not. Of course part of that is because I've always been interested in what makes things work, especially in a *nix os.

I know a lot of people who look at me crazy when I tell them to use disk utility to check and repair permissions, and haven't done such a thing since they have bought their computer. Most that I talk to have never had any serious problems, and don't ever worry about things until something goes wrong. Funny thing is, that the ones coming from a windows back ground usually think that re-installing the os is the only answer.

I guess I don't know what a real good answer is, maybe it seems like a problem to people like us who run disk utility and see a list of permissions that are set wrong fly by on the screen....while other people live in ignorant bliss.

Freiheit · #6 June 11th, 2004, 01:47 AM

As a recent (like, right now) convert to the Mac from OS/2 and Windows on the PC, I can say I'm quite in the dark about "repairing permissions". I've never even heard of such a thing from my Linux using friends over the past 7 years. MacOS X is the first and only place I've ever heard the term.

My (Mac-newbie) question is what is being done so wrong that one has to repair their permissions? Why are permissions not retained, at the file system level, when a file is updated, or why are the updates intentionally changing the file permissions?

I also agree with the "keep it simple" mantra. That's the appeal of the Macintosh -- it just works. I have intentionally not spent $0 converting to Linux but have spent $2000 switching to Mac because I want a system I can turn on and use without having to worry about recompiling my kernel, back-leveling glibc or choosing between GNOME and KDE. Throwing permissions "problems" into the mix means MacOS is not nearly as simple as it once was (obviously, it's a completely different animal than it once was) but that it's also (in my experience) occasionally more difficult than Linux.

So, note to Apple, don't break my permissions so I don't have to repair them. Please!

Randman · #7 June 11th, 2004, 05:31 AM

There's a Konfabulator Widget that allows you to repair permissions right after an installation. I haven't used it yet but it's there.

diablojota · #8 June 11th, 2004, 08:05 AM

Well, glad to see this old thread revived.
It's good that there is a program out to handle this, however it would be better if apple had a better method at keeping these in check without the user having to get 3rd party programs, or run Disk Utility, etc.
I love Panther, think it is maturing well, but this seems to be the one big thing that is extrememly irritating. Plus, not all users know to repair permissions (aside from those on this site) and when something doesn't work, they become disgruntled with the Brand. The keep it simple stupid mantra that Apple so adored in the past seems to be forgotten. Hopefully Tiger addresses this issue.