Apple or Windows? Which is better?

[Scottfab]

I've actually sound this mac to be more inintuative. Disk images? Have to unmount my usb drive? No right click? Spotlight that doesnt search by name? Plus, there's less software, less games, less upgradeability, and the fact that everything is proprietary and expensive.

And not to insult anybody, but I think alot of Mac users have an attitude problem. A need to prove their superiority or something. If I went to a windows forum and said I prefered Mac, I doubt I'd be attacked by an angry mob.

[nixgeek]

Originally Posted by Scottfab

I've actually sound this mac to be more inintuative. Disk images? Have to unmount my usb drive? No right click? Spotlight that doesnt search by name? Plus, there's less software, less games, less upgradeability, and the fact that everything is proprietary and expensive.

And not to insult anybody, but I think alot of Mac users have an attitude problem. A need to prove their superiority or something. If I went to a windows forum and said I prefered Mac, I doubt I'd be attacked by an angry mob.

Seems as though you haven't actually DONE this. Give it a try and see what happens. Understand that you might not get the educated rebuttles you would get here, but it's to be expected.

As for the right click, if I only had a nickel for everytime a person that is relatively new to computers or is a computer novice got confused as to which button to use, I would be as rich as Billy Gates today. For new users, the two-button mouse can be confusing. I usually have to remind them to LEFT-click instead of assuming that they know, otherwise I get the "which button do I click on?" question. For new users, it's easier to understand the one button-ness of Apple's mouse. You really don't even need to right-click, since most of your menu options are on the universal menubar at the top. And for new users, this gives them a sense of familiarity where everything is. They don't have to think about the 1001 ways of performing the same options with extra mouse buttons. They can just go to the menu at the top and select the command they need.

As for the software selection, don't even THINK of counting all that junk software in the bargain bin as a selection, because there's a reason it's in that section....it's CRAP. If you've noticed, most of the software titles available on the Mac are titles that are well-done and well-reviewed (for the most part). Any of the big names you will find on the Mac and PC. Those that don't provide are easily replacable by other developers that DO support the Mac. And there are even titles that you won't find on Windows that are Mac only. So that point is quite moot. Don't base your decisions on wht Best Buy or Walmart has. They obviously cater to one platform, and it works for them. Most Mac users know where they can find their software, and it's within reach. As a matter of fact, when I helped my father purchase his G5, he received a catalog from MacMall and other resellers of Mac items, so he wasn't at a loss here. As for games, Apple is working on that, but remember that people who own a Mac aren't in it for the games. It's probably easier for them to just get a cheap PC for that, or a game console.

As for the expandability, it's there. And unless you build your own PC, you really don't have much of a need to upgrading anything, even if we're talking about branded PCs. My mother-in-law has a Dell PC at her house and she hasn't upgraded it at all. Everything is still the same exact way it came from the factory, and she's still very happy with it. Whether it's a Mac or a Dell, people looking for these systems don't want to fiddle with the inside. If that's what you want, then build yourself a nice Athlon 64 X2 system and be done with it. Get the parts yourself. But if you don't have the know-how, it's better that someone has taken the time to configure a system for you without you having to change anything after the purchase. Heck, you can even BTO so that it's all there. Most people looking to buy anything other than a Power Mac G5 aren't looking to get their hands dirty, they are looking to get their work done, and Apple has taken care of this.

Apple is considered to be proprietary because they control the software and the hardware. But that's a false statement. Look inside of their machines and you can use any type of component you would normally interchange on a PC on a Mac. RAM and storage are about the only thing that's probably upgraded the most, and that's the same on both systems. Apple machines had PCI, AGP, PCI-Express, whathave you. The "Not-Invented-Here" Syndrome of the 90s is definitely gone. Heck, even the core OS is open if you don't count Quartz or Aqua. You want to talk proprietary?? How come Microsoft hasn't made ANY of their operating systems interoperable with others?? Sounds like lock-in to a proprietary platform to me.

Yes, Apple machines tend to be expensive, but compare Apple's systems to what you get on the PC side. Most of the graphics chipsets integrated in the Macs are from companies that SPECIALIZE in video, like ATI and NVIDIA. What do you find in the Wintel world? Intel ExtremeGraphics??? PLEASE! Let them deal with CPUs and leave the VPUs to companies that know what they are doing. With Apple, you get high quality hardware AND software. And for the most part, everything just works, and that's what I hear from everyone who's owned a Mac.

And as for your USB issue?? Think that at least the Mac is letting you know that you can corrupt your data if you don't unmount it properly. Same thing in open-source UNIX/Linux if you think about it. Windows OTOH just allows you to do unplug it with no regard to the fact that you can corrupt your data. If you look carefully, in Windows XP you are warned that you need to STOP YOUR USB DEVICE before you disconnect it. So you're point here is also refuted.

The reason Mac users tend to get irked by most Windows users is this: Windows users are not all that informed. You'll find that most Mac users are very well-informed about BOTH platforms, and can even run circles around most Windows users about their OWN platform. If only Windows users didn't just regurgitate the same trash that's been spread around since the 1980s, Mac users would respect them a little more.

[Viro]

Originally Posted by Scottfab

I've actually sound this mac to be more inintuative. Disk images? Have to unmount my usb drive? No right click? Spotlight that doesnt search by name? Plus, there's less software, less games, less upgradeability, and the fact that everything is proprietary and expensive.

Are you actually serious, or are you just trolling? You need to unmount your USB drive on Windows too. It's just called "Safely remove hardware" or something like that. If you haven't been doing that, don't complain if you suddenly find your data corrupted.

Right click is there. Though it is often unnecessary. If you do need to right click, either CTRL+click or buy a multibutton mouse. I've got a 7 button mouse and all the buttons work fine.

With regard to software, that's just plain ... naive. I use loads of programs on the Mac that were from Windows. MATLAB and Office are the first and foremost that come to mind. They cost the same as they would on Windows. *shrug*. Then, there's all those open sourced applications you can install via fink/darwin ports/gentoo/manual installation.

On the other hand, there is software that is available on OS X that is not available on Windows or Linux or anything else. I've already mentioned this, but I'll say it again. Bibdesk and TexShop. No alternatives on Windows. If there are, tell me! I need to tell my supervisor so he can get away from the command line. None work as well, and none are as cheap (free).

Xcode is free on OS X. Last I checked, VS.NET costs a fortune. Loads of development tools are free on OS X.

I agree with you if you're talking about games. There are less games on OS X, and they tend to cost more. But the upside is only good games get ported, since developers are only interested in porting games that will sell.

And not to insult anybody, but I think alot of Mac users have an attitude problem. A need to prove their superiority or something. If I went to a windows forum and said I prefered Mac, I doubt I'd be attacked by an angry mob.

Instead of merely speculating, why not go onto a Windows site and say you love macs? My experience is that there are zealots and idiots in every camp. Macs/Linux/Windows/Solaris/$FAV_OS all have their share of nut jobs. These forums are among the best on the web for decent signal to noise ratios.

[Viro]

Crud, nixgeek beat me to it .

[nixgeek]

Thanks for the assist though...you covered some things I didn't mention.

[Lycander]

Originally Posted by Viro

Are you actually serious, or are you just trolling? You need to unmount your USB drive on Windows too. It's just called "Safely remove hardware" or something like that. If you haven't been doing that, don't complain if you suddenly find your data corrupted.

There's one caveat though. In Windows we can disable "write caching." Supposedly write caching creates this "perceived performance" because it doesn't write to disk right away... it waits for a more opportune time to actually commit the data. Idiotic if you as me, but anyways, you can disable write caching on removable media, then all your external hard drives can "quick disconnect." No need to manual tell the computer to unmount it first.

It's analogous to flushing file buffers, from a programmers angle

Originally Posted by nixgeek

And as for your USB issue?? Think that at least the Mac is letting you know that you can corrupt your data if you don't unmount it properly. Same thing in open-source UNIX/Linux if you think about it. Windows OTOH just allows you to do unplug it with no regard to the fact that you can corrupt your data. If you look carefully, in Windows XP you are warned that you need to STOP YOUR USB DEVICE before you disconnect it. So you're point here is also refuted.

What's stopping anyone from unplugging an external drive in OSX. Any warning signs, any pop up messages? And regarding "loss of data", in Windows when you MOVE files from one disk to another, the OS actually makes a copy of the files from source to destination. Then it deletes the original source to complete the process of permenantly moving the files from point A to B. If you hit cancel anytime inbetween, the files on the destination get erased, the original source files are kept in tact.

I had one ugly incident a few years ago on my iMac where I was trying to move everything (10 GB of various docs and files) off my FW HD onto my iMac HD so I can reformat the external one into HFS+. Well half way through I said "meh, I change my mind I'll leave it as FAT32 because I'll still need to use the drive on my PC." So I hit cancel. Well that bad news is it bumped into an error because I tried to stop it. But it still thought I wanted those files off that external HD. So it went and deleted them. So then my files were neither in the destination nor the original source...

[riccbhard]

Windows is abosolutely horrible. Used 3.1 (what started this all) and 95 + all other versions of windows and they all SUCK . Stay with Mac .

[RGrphc2]

check out xvsxp.com the guy disects Panther and XP to the nitty gritty.

No Games is BS there are games for Mac you just have to look. Granted No Counterstrike or GTA but there are games that make up for that.

No Right click, go out and get a 2 button mouse they work with OS X, lol.