Supporting Macs

[Mikuro]

The iMac is certainly far superior to the Mac Mini. There are really only three reasons you might want a Mini instead:
1. Price, obviously.
2. You really want a PPC processor (it might be more relevant for current support issues....then again, it's bound to become obsolete sooner).
3. You hate hate hate all-in-one designs (as I do).

The iMac provides much more bang for your buck. It's waaaaaay faster, and has a more capable video card that supports Core Image. The only real problem is that it's Intel-based and thus most software doesn't run natively, if it runs at all (this is bound to change with time).


As for learning Unix with OS X, you don't need to, but I think you could. You have to go out of your way to expose yourself to the command line or find a real use for it. But if you love to tinker, it's all there.

But if you really want to learn Unix for the sake of learning Unix (I only know Unix for the sake of tinkering with OS X), you could always install some Linux distro on either your PC or your new Mac.

[nixgeek]

You can also use QEMU and set up a virtual machine on your Windows PC or whatever Mac you decide to use in order to play around with UNIX itself. For the Mac, I recommend downloading Q which is a Cocoa port of QEMU with a nice interface.

[FarmerPete]

Desktop replacement laptops have a place. I used mine for school. I needed something that had a lot of muscle for doing programing/designing/graphics type stuff, but I also wanted something that I could play games on. (I had 3 hours of downtime between classes for a year, and I had an hour commute. Having a laptop with what was then the 2nd best video card (9600pro 128mb) a great processor (2.8ghz P4 with 800mhz FSB and HT), and fast ram (Dual channel DDR400) was really nice for the year that I used it as my primary machine. I still use it a lot now, but not as much as I used to. It was great because I never needed to use it on battery power. I just needed to find a desk where I could plug it in. There were tons of them around the campus. But if I ever want to use it in a Car, I don't think I can even use a power inverter cause it sucks so much power, (Standard inverters don't go up very high in power output unless you have a direct line connection to the battery).

I wish there was a good intel based Mac that had a system architecture like a standard PC. None of this integrated junk that they are passing. I'm sure the reason they did the iMac and Laptop first comes down to drivers. But the thing that scares me the most is that they could come out with their tower system and the price tag is 2k which I don't want to spend.

[JflipB]

FarmerPete:

I'm trying to stifle my laughter at your previous post (about 99% of games being written for Mac and Apple opening its hardware....ahh good stuff).

As long as Macs remain a "niche" market, games will never catch up with the Windows world.

In the past, under the evil emperor Gil Amelio's reign of Apple computer, they tried to open up the hardware to other vendors and it failed miserably. Arguably it could be because at the time Apple wasn't doing anything that was worth copying or because Gil didn't really care about Apple, but Steve Jobs quickly put an end to the Apple clones as soon as he took the helm back and got rid of Gil.

Before you buy books and research away, maybe you should investigate the "culture" of Apple. This is why people are drawn to these things (including me).

Talk with the Mac users in your company, understand their passion for it. If you really listen to them with an open mind, you might surprise yourself.

There's nothing wrong with being computer "bilingual". Buy a Mac AND run your PC programs (ever heard of Citrix or Remote Desktop?).

Lastly, the only way you're going to be able to expertly support a Mac is to use one yourself. Until that happens, you're Mac users will not respect you.

--JflipB
(I work in Information Security for a large company whose Marketing department is Mac-centric. I've "fought the fight" for years with them concerning support. I use a PC at work and a Mac at home; each has their place depending on the use, but I'm much happier with my Mac at home).

[jwoods]

FarmerPete, I see people making recommendations and you continuously finding reasons against what they are saying (But I....My P4....etc.). Believe me, I completely understand you wanting to get the knowledge you say you need on the cheap.

Not to be rude, but either you want to learn the system or you don't. If you constantly have to justify how great your PC is compared to a Mac, then move on. You obviously do not want to get the information you need to support them.

Unfortunately, there is no magic book that will teach you what you are wanting to know. You are going to have to get your hands dirty. It's that plain and simple. The Macmini is the cheapest Mac Apple makes - it might very well be your best option.

I don't know how else to put this.....sorry. Just seems like you asked a couple of questions and then went to great lengths to counter-argue against why that's an option.

[Mikuro]

He stated right off the bat that he intended to get a Mac. Ideally, he wants a Mac he can justify using instead of his beefy PC for at least some tasks. Not unreasonable. But there's been some off-topic discussion here.

One more point in favor of the new iMac is that, in theory, it will be able to double as a Windows PC once Vista is released (currently there's no good way to get XP running on it). That might be a huge advantage for you. Just thought I'd throw the info out there.

The iMac is a great system, but possibly more than you need. The Mac Mini is looking awfully outdated at this point, but hey, it's what I use every day, and I'm not complaining. Then again, I haven't bought a high-end system since '97, so our standards are probably different.

It's also worth mentioning that the Mac Mini will also be moving to Intel this year. I'm guessing it will be released in March-April, but that's just a guess.

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by FarmerPete

I'm planning on going and buying myself either a MacMini or one of the new iMacs so I can learn to use it, and eventually support it. I don't have a great fondness for Macs, and my primary machine will probably be a PC for a long time. (I currently have 2 PC's I use, 1 for gaming, and another next to it for doing multitasking stuff that I believe just about any Mac should be able to do.)

Well, honestly, with that statement you've pretty much locked yourself out of Mac support.

Supporting a platform means immersing yourself in it to the point of understanding the ins and outs of the systems... and you've basically stated that you aren't willing to do that.

Anyone have any suggestions? Since I am looking to "Support" macs more than just use them, I was hoping that there might be a more specific book out there.

If you aren't willing to learn how to use them, then you aren't willing to learn how to support them.

I know that the insides of most Macs are hands-off, (an issue that I am quite honestly a little pissed about)...

Since when? The only Macs that are truly hands-off are PowerBooks and iBooks that are still under warranty. I've been servicing Apple computers (including hardware issues) since 2000. I've been working inside of Macs since I started owning them (late 80's).

You are starting with a major prejudice against Macs and a lot of misconceptions. Even worse, you don't seem to want to put any effort into this. Before looking for a book, you might want to deal with these self-improvement issues first.


From my personal experiences of learning other platforms, you are setting out in the wrong direction. When I wanted to learn about Sun Microsystems computers, I didn't buy one of their current systems... I bought a older system that I could get my hands dirty with. In fact, my first Sun and SGI came to me as nonfunctioning units... which I was able to get up and running applying my hardware experience and learning what it took to install and use their respective operating systems. And if you think finding books and documentation on Apple computers is hard, try hunting down stuff on Sun and SGI systems.

But I was willing to do what ever it took to make those environments as natural a place to work in as Macs are for me. When you are able to get past the issues you've been displaying in this thread, and are willing to apply the same efforts you put into learning PCs, you'll be in a good position to learn Macs.

But you'll never find that magic 10% of what you need to support Macs if you can't use them yourself... because using a system is how you figure out what that 10% actually is.

[Tommo]

I fully agree with RacerX, the only way you will get used to Macs is to use them, not just a little but a lot. Also leave the prejudices at the door before you start.

I have the joy that is providing support to end users on a large network, which like yours is majority PC but with around 50-60 Macs of various descriptions. Before this I was a PC user solely for many years. If you try to learn on a Mac by just using it when you get time you end up never using it. I forced myself to use it as my primary system, using remote desktop to get into to my PC only for stuff I couldn't do on the Mac, that way I learned a lot more a lot quicker.

Is my Mac better than my PC ? No, but it is no worse either there are somethings which are better/easier on a Mac and somethings which I still switch to the PC for. It is, for the moment at least, a lot more secure.

Equally I would say, going back to an off track point, is my Xbox 360 better than my PC. Yes by virtue of it being much cheaper and needing no upgrades until the end of its production cycle. I always swore I would never own a console being a PC gamer from the early days, and while fully agreeing that FPS game are a nightmare on a console I don't have to throw money at it every year to keep up. When I switched to the original Xbox I had a choice, new graphics card for the PC £200 or Xbox £100, economics won, but then most of the games I wanted were available on both platforms.