Losing our Macs to PCs because of $$$$

[Natobasso]

Originally Posted by Tommo

Vista will run the software he mentions with no issues at all, I know I had to test it. Working for an IT department using both PCs and Macs I would have to say that the cost implications of using Macs over PCs is very high, especially if you are looking at Mac Pro over iMac.

The cost of my Macbook Pro would have paid for three PC laptops of very similar specifications that are in use on site here. My feeling is that the boss wants to move from Quark to Indesign regardless of platform and as it runs well on PCs has gone that way rather than replacing ageing Macs.

In this case application training would be needed anyway and training to use Windows rather than OSX should not increase the cost more than the price of a Mac Pro.

It's very naive to think that computer users are going to just 'learn a new system' without a lot of growing pains. Many IT folks I know are frustrated with users not even being able to work email let alone an entire system!

There are real costs involved with this change not to mention file compatibility, etc. Quark files are notoriously buggy at the best of times...

[835dusseault]

Thanks everyone for your input.

[MisterMe]

Originally Posted by Tommo

...

The cost of my Macbook Pro would have paid for three PC laptops of very similar specifications that are in use on site here. My feeling is that the boss wants to move from Quark to Indesign regardless of platform and as it runs well on PCs has gone that way rather than replacing ageing Macs.

...

The hardware is a relatively minor part of the costs incurred in a platform switch. Unless each knowledge worker in your firm is using only one or two apps, the cost new software licenses will dwarf the cost savings from cheaper hardware. Cheaper hardware is not a given. And then there are the support costs. Typically firms that switch from Macs to Windows also increase the number of support personnel to maintain their new computers. Consider how many Mac Pros you can buy using the salary of each additional employee.

[Tommo]

As I tried to make clear, it will depend on what is driving the change of platform. If the firm is going to migrate to Indesign anyway any costs associated with that can be factored out as they will exist on whatever platform is is based.

As an IT professional I do not think I am being naive in thinking users will 'learn a new system'. This might have been the case 10 years ago, but the majority of people now do not find computers as daunting as they once did. It should take little more than a couple of hours basic tuition to allow users to make the move from Mac to PC or vice versa. The only problem I have ever encountered when getting users to make the switch is to get past platform bias for whichever system they were using before.

As they don't specify how many users or systems would be involved it is difficult to say how much could be saved on hardware. If it is only a few then I agree it may well be exceeded by other costs incurred such as extra staff. If however it is a large publishing house with hundreds of machines those extra costs will offset the saving on hardware.

[nixgeek]

Tommo, I work in IT as well (in the educational field). I constantly have to deal with people that are supposed to know how to use a computer but still come to me with the silliest of questions. If I were to switch them to another platform (be it Mac OS X or a graphical Linux desktop environment), their heads would explode. You have to look at it from your end users' point of view, which is not easy when you already know how to use a lot of operating systems and understand the OS concepts very well. The same thing can happen with end users going from Mac OS X to Windows. There are differences, albeit small. But they are differences.

End users don't spend all that much time on the computer unless they have to. They just use it to perform a needed task. Because of this, especially at work, they get used to a particular system and are very hesitant when it comes to change. So because of this, there is eventually going to be some sort of training involved (formal or informal) that will not only cost them monetarily, but in productivity as well. Such a drastic change as this even though initially the lure of cheaper hardware is there ends up being more expensive than any Mac that Apple sells in the long run.

[Tommo]

Nixgeek, like you I am employed in an educational environment. I agree with what you say to a point, but maybe my experience is different because of the mixed platform setup we have here.

A lot of our users already switch between Macs and PCs depending on what is available in their group. Most of them do this with very little effort or training. We do get the odd silly question, but in the main day to day use of the machines and software does not generate that many questions to our support desk.

The impact on productivity in this case is going to be mostly caused by the change in software rather than the change from OSX to Windows.

As I said before a lot will depend on the scale of the business and whether or not this is a long term strategy for the business involved. Also the original post did not say whether the whole infrastructure was Mac based or just the user desktop end, which would impact more heavily on costs in terms of extra staffing requirements.

[Natobasso]

Originally Posted by Tommo

As I tried to make clear, it will depend on what is driving the change of platform. If the firm is going to migrate to Indesign anyway any costs associated with that can be factored out as they will exist on whatever platform is is based.

As an IT professional I do not think I am being naive in thinking users will 'learn a new system'. This might have been the case 10 years ago, but the majority of people now do not find computers as daunting as they once did. It should take little more than a couple of hours basic tuition to allow users to make the move from Mac to PC or vice versa. The only problem I have ever encountered when getting users to make the switch is to get past platform bias for whichever system they were using before.

As they don't specify how many users or systems would be involved it is difficult to say how much could be saved on hardware. If it is only a few then I agree it may well be exceeded by other costs incurred such as extra staff. If however it is a large publishing house with hundreds of machines those extra costs will offset the saving on hardware.

You make some good points. However, how can your publishing house make such a huge change without doing due diligence?

Does your firm do its own printing? If not, they might also want to figure out if their print vendor/s can take collected pc files. Not all service bureaus can.

[MisterMe]

Originally Posted by Tommo

...

A lot of our users already switch between Macs and PCs depending on what is available in their group. Most of them do this with very little effort or training. ...

If you are talking about students, then I agree. If you are talking about hourly workers and salaried employees, then I disagree. If you make even a minor change, then they want to be retrained. Some will be OK, but many will not work on the new system until they receive formal training on it. Because the pay is the same for productive work, training sessions, and sitting around waiting for training sessions, you dare not change the work environment unless you plan to offer training on the new systems.