Unix, X11, Fink, X11 SDK.

Mikel · #1 February 11th, 2004, 06:31 AM

I love my iBook. I love OSX. And I love that it handles tech stuff without the crud that Windows throws at you. However, if I ever hear anybody tell me that Linux or Unix and all that GNU stuff is very user friendly and practically installs itself then my brain will melt.

Almost every little single detail has to be scrutinized and studied and trial & error are a major part of learning this stuff because the so-called ''help documents" always leave some detail missing.

Well after a night of fighting with my terminal I finally got as far as "fink install lincity" without a hitch - until it came to the end and said I need X11 SDK (which is apparantly available on the new OSX CD but not available for download.. or is it?) I also downloaded a newer X11 that won't run on what I thought was a perpetually self-updating OS, yet it will not install on my 10.2.8 (can't find an upgrade).

So I got an older version of X11 with no X11 SDK on my system. Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks for letting me rant.

(BTW, I took apart my iBook for repair and clean the other day and if you plan on doing the same any time, don't forget to pluck out those rubber feet to get at three other screws [the battery one has no screw]. There are also two weeny screws hidden at the underside of the CD rom area).
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A little more digging and it sounds like the X11SDK is no longer available for OSX10.2.8 unless you know somebody with the install package. If anybody has that can you please mail it to me. (It's not on any of the CDs that came with OSX10.2)

I wonder if there was ever a OSX10.2.9. Hmmm

mpbnl8182 · #2 February 11th, 2004, 01:57 PM

If I recall, even with 10.3, I had to install the X11 SDK as an added option during the developer tools (XCode) installation. However, since X11 was not included in 10.2, I don't know if that is the case. If i had an extra set of Jag CDs, I'd check for you, but I don't. Sorry I can't be of more help.

MP

Edit: Sorry, i'm an idiot and didn't see your edited post.

tachyon · #3 February 21st, 2004, 08:38 AM

Doesn't matter about Apple's X11. I tried using it and Fink gave me all kinds of grief saying this and that weren't going to work. Eventually I gave up and renamed /usr/X11R6 to /usr/X11R6.old and downloaded XFree86 for Mac OS X/Darwin from Sourceforge. Then fink was happy and I have been happily downloading stuff, like right now I am running KDE and also Mozilla in XWindows.
It's all good!
Except why I'm here, a couple of KDE questions to ask.
No, you can't use the X11 installer from the 10.3 CDs. They're too new. Either get the nonApple version of XFree86 or go and buy 10.3, making sure you do the custom install and click the "X11" tickbox.

Mikel · #4 February 24th, 2004, 05:20 PM

I know nill about KDE and XFree86, though the second one sounds familiar. So like are they the same things this X11 and XFree86?
Well, I'll check it out anyway.

Still, if anybody's gots X11SDK for OSX10.2.8 I'd love to get the package so I don't feel that empty hole if you know what I mean.

Mike

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As usual, this open source geeky stuff starts with an explanation of what the thing is that makes absolutely no sense unless you've been using this kinda stuff for a while. I mean; is it a shell, or an interpreter, or an adaptor of kind, or what? Pooh.

Viro · #5 February 25th, 2004, 08:02 AM

X11 is just a standard/protocol. It defines how things should be done. XFree86 is the implementation of that protocol. Apple's X11 is also an implementation of the X11 protocol.

Apple has stopped supporting X11 on Jaguar. If you want to use Apple's X11, you need Panther. However, all is not lost. Fink will still install and X11 server for you if you don't have the required X11 SDK. I've never used it myself, but you could try it and see.

KDE is one of the window managers available for X11. The reason window managers are needed is because the X11 protocol doesn't define any GUI components (like buttons, windows, list boxes, etc). It only provides the basic drawing functions, like rectangles, lines, and text. So in comes the window manager that makes use of the functions provided by X11 to draw all the GUI objects.

Good luck in getting it to work.

Mikel · #6 February 25th, 2004, 10:51 PM

Thanks all. But heck, I just ordered OSX10.3 and a new power adapter (I wont get into that).

Viro, thanks, much is clearer, but much is still goopy sounding. The whole "get up-to-date-with-modern-computing" is like a whole other topic that might be somewhere else here or I'll start one later.

Gotta run... battery dying!

Thanks again.

tachyon · #7 March 2nd, 2004, 05:16 PM

So after the KDE thing, then I tried the GNOME bundle, that works too except it crashes when I try to launch a KDE app.

GNOME notices that I have Mozilla for XWindows installed.

ALSO, they all crash my old Powerbook when running in Rootless window mode. Full Screen is the way to go even though it can't redraw the screen after waking from sleep (you have to go back to OS X and then back to XDarwin to see things again.

Then I noticed that blackbox (another window manager) was available through fink, but I'm not sure how to set it up, it's not on Sao's helpful webpage.

s3raphim · #8 March 5th, 2004, 02:53 PM

One thing to note when you receive Panther:
X11 for Users is on the third install disk, along with fink and lots of other good stuff... Gcc and X11SDK, however, is on the xCode CD that comes with Panther. Also, you have to specifically install X11SDK, otherwise nothing work. I guess it's just not in the default list of things to install from that CD.
Once that's all nice and installed, you will be able to run fink from the command line
/sw/bin/fink -dostuff
Enjoy