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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Airport Extreme And Sbc Yahoo Dsl
chaj05 - Jul 16, 2005 - 8:29 pm
I've got two MacOS 10.3.9 systems working. One is connected to the internet through SBC Yahoo DSL. It uses the Effiecient Speedstream 5100 modem. I wanted to set up a wireless network in the house, so I thought AirPort Extreme would be the easiest way. I hooked the base station to the modem, and I installed an Extreme card in the second machine. I wanted to be able to share the internet connection between machines.
I got it running, and all of a sudden, I got a message saying that the IP address I got from the DHCP was already in use by the modem, or something like that. In any case, it cancelled my internet connection. The computer would continuously retry to get me on the internet, and a few messages later (the same messages as the first) I got a connection. Too bad it only lasted for 5 minutes max.
At that point, I was ready to reset the base station, and try to set it up again, but for some reason, I'm unable to Set it up again. When I go into the AirPort Setup Assistant, it communicates that there was an error in communication to the base station. I can't use the Admin Utility on it either, becuse it doesn't recognize the base station.
I'm aware that not all ISPs are compatible with AirPort. My question is, is SBC Yahoo DSL compatible or not? If so, what am I doing wrong? Even my PC wizard friend is stumped by this situation, and he's spent countless hours setting up protocols and addresses. My personal knowledge of TCP/IP and Ethernet connections stops after the step where you plug it in.
What am I doing wrong? Is my base station crap that needs replacement? Should I call SBC? What should I do?
-Jeff
I got it running, and all of a sudden, I got a message saying that the IP address I got from the DHCP was already in use by the modem, or something like that. In any case, it cancelled my internet connection. The computer would continuously retry to get me on the internet, and a few messages later (the same messages as the first) I got a connection. Too bad it only lasted for 5 minutes max.
At that point, I was ready to reset the base station, and try to set it up again, but for some reason, I'm unable to Set it up again. When I go into the AirPort Setup Assistant, it communicates that there was an error in communication to the base station. I can't use the Admin Utility on it either, becuse it doesn't recognize the base station.
I'm aware that not all ISPs are compatible with AirPort. My question is, is SBC Yahoo DSL compatible or not? If so, what am I doing wrong? Even my PC wizard friend is stumped by this situation, and he's spent countless hours setting up protocols and addresses. My personal knowledge of TCP/IP and Ethernet connections stops after the step where you plug it in.
What am I doing wrong? Is my base station crap that needs replacement? Should I call SBC? What should I do?
-Jeff
baldprof - Jul 16, 2005 - 10:12 pm
If I understand you correctly you have the modem described here:
http://www.chipweb.de/dsl/index.php?menu=2&id2=77
The one thing you should do is become familiar with this page:
http://www.apple.com/support/airport/
Down towards the end of this page is a link to this:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107451
You need to do a hard reset of your base station as described in that article. This will put it back in the state that it was in when you got it out of the box.
I realise this means starting over, but I can't be sure exactly what all the settings are.
I would also reset your DSL modem by disonnecting and then reconnecting the power.
Now, connect your modem to the port on the base station labled "WAN" with an ethernet cable. Then connect the Mac you want as the wired computer to the "LAN" port; that's also the port you would use if you wanted to atttach a hub or switch.
Now power on th ewired Mac. Then open System Preferences. Then open Network. Make sure it is set to use the builtin ethernet. Then click the configure button.
http://www.chipweb.de/dsl/index.php?menu=2&id2=77
The one thing you should do is become familiar with this page:
http://www.apple.com/support/airport/
Down towards the end of this page is a link to this:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107451
You need to do a hard reset of your base station as described in that article. This will put it back in the state that it was in when you got it out of the box.
I realise this means starting over, but I can't be sure exactly what all the settings are.
I would also reset your DSL modem by disonnecting and then reconnecting the power.
Now, connect your modem to the port on the base station labled "WAN" with an ethernet cable. Then connect the Mac you want as the wired computer to the "LAN" port; that's also the port you would use if you wanted to atttach a hub or switch.
Now power on th ewired Mac. Then open System Preferences. Then open Network. Make sure it is set to use the builtin ethernet. Then click the configure button.
baldprof - Jul 16, 2005 - 10:30 pm
Oops! To continue, after you have clicked the configure button, click TCP/IP. Where it indicates configure IPv4, make sure the choice is Using DHCP; then click Apply Now if you have changed anything.
At this point your wired Mac will be set to take whatever IP addresss is assigned to it by the base station, once that base station is set up. Also, at this point you could connect your Mac directly to the modem, bypassing the Airport hub tempoarily, and restart your modem, then your Mac. Now check to see if you have internet access. You should. Power down your Mac. Connect the modem to the base station as described above, then connect the Mac with a cable to the LAN port. Now, connect the base station to it's power supply. Turn on your Mac. Now run the Airport Setup Assistant, which as you probably know, should be in your Applications folder. Make sure you set it up assign IP address dynamically; as I am sure your friend could explain, the base station sets up it's own local LAN and assigns IP addresses to all the computers that join the network. Once you have finished the setup process, you should have internet access. Except you may have to restart your Mac; you'll have to excuse me here, I can't remember specifically if you have to or not.
Once you get the access for the wired Mac working properly, move on to the Mac that you want to connect wirelessly. Assuming that the card is properly installed, power on the other Mac. When it finishes booting open System Preferences, as you did before, then open Network. Now make sure this Mac is set to use the Airport card. Then click the configure button, and as before, where it indicates Configure IPv4, make sure the choice is Using DHCP. Click renew DHCP Lease, and click Apply Now if you have had to change anything. Close System Preferences.
Up at the top of the screen there should be an Airport symbol. I can't quite describe it, but I think you'll know what it is. Now in your Applications folder is the Internet connect application run that, and tell it to connect using the Airport network you set up. That should do it.
Let me know if this works.
At this point your wired Mac will be set to take whatever IP addresss is assigned to it by the base station, once that base station is set up. Also, at this point you could connect your Mac directly to the modem, bypassing the Airport hub tempoarily, and restart your modem, then your Mac. Now check to see if you have internet access. You should. Power down your Mac. Connect the modem to the base station as described above, then connect the Mac with a cable to the LAN port. Now, connect the base station to it's power supply. Turn on your Mac. Now run the Airport Setup Assistant, which as you probably know, should be in your Applications folder. Make sure you set it up assign IP address dynamically; as I am sure your friend could explain, the base station sets up it's own local LAN and assigns IP addresses to all the computers that join the network. Once you have finished the setup process, you should have internet access. Except you may have to restart your Mac; you'll have to excuse me here, I can't remember specifically if you have to or not.
Once you get the access for the wired Mac working properly, move on to the Mac that you want to connect wirelessly. Assuming that the card is properly installed, power on the other Mac. When it finishes booting open System Preferences, as you did before, then open Network. Now make sure this Mac is set to use the Airport card. Then click the configure button, and as before, where it indicates Configure IPv4, make sure the choice is Using DHCP. Click renew DHCP Lease, and click Apply Now if you have had to change anything. Close System Preferences.
Up at the top of the screen there should be an Airport symbol. I can't quite describe it, but I think you'll know what it is. Now in your Applications folder is the Internet connect application run that, and tell it to connect using the Airport network you set up. That should do it.
Let me know if this works.
chaj05 - Jul 18, 2005 - 6:40 pm
Thank you ro the information you provided, it was very helpful, but it didn't solve the problem.
See, I did everything you said, I set up the airport base station, and updated its software and everything. There still seems to be a problem with the communication between the Speedstream modem and the airport extreme. I still get the message "(IP address) is in use by (Airport ID #)". I don't know whether you've ever seen this message. I called SBC's tech support, but since they aren't authorized to give technical support for the Airport, all they gave me were DNS Server numbers. I got those, I entered them in their places in the system preferences/network pane. Now what? I'd still like to know if my base station needs to be replaced or not. I only have one more week before my return policy expires. And for some reason or another, I can only configure the base station when the modem isn't plugged into it. Is that normal?
I continue to get limited access to the internet, where it loads my homepage, but only tries to load another website I go to, over and over again. The progress bar never moves. I DO still have connection to the internet without the base station. Which is good. My Airport Extreme card works fine in the second machine. It will connect to the base station fine. It will receive internet (the same crappy internet that the wired computer receives) fine.
So, here are my questions:
What significance do the DNS Server IPs have, if any, to my situation right now?
Should I try Apple's support phone line? It would cost extra for my situation, and I'd like to avoid it.
Again, do I need to replace my Airport Extreme?
Is Airport Extreme compatible with Apple G4 systems without a card?
Is there a list of compatible ISPs for the Airport Extreme base station?
-Sincerely,
Jeff C.
baldprof - Jul 18, 2005 - 7:59 pm
Okay. I think I have been operating under a misconception here. I found the manufactureres website, and it appears that there are two versions: one which is just a plain DSL modem, and another which has router capabilities. From the pictures both versions appear to be the same.
If you had the modem only version, then the setup instructions which I gave you, with one minor modification, should have worked. If you have the router version, the instructions which I gave you are incorrect.
Does your ISP use what is called PPPoE ? If so, one thing you have to do is indicate that in the network prefrences of your Mac. When you open System Preferences, then click Network and click Configure, right next to the TCP/IP button is one labled PPPoE. That's where you would turn this feature on. I had just thought of this as a possibility. You would need to ask your ISP to know for sure.
The other thing is, if you have the router version of that Speed stream product, then you don't want your Airport Extreme assigning IP addresses, because your router is also trying to assign IP addresses. You would want to set up the Airport Express as a bridge; in effect it would just pass along the IP addresses assigned by the router. I looked at the spec sheet for both versions and I couldn't figure out from the pictures how to tell the two versions apart. Again, you might have to ask your ISP.
So that's two things to determine; do you need to configure PPPoE? And does your modem also act as a router? If it turns out that you have a router, then you would use the setup assistant for the Airport Express to set it to act as a bridge. I am not at home right now, so I can't tel you exactly at which screen in the setup procedure you would have to specify this.
So, were you able to get internet access by doing a direct ethernet connection to your modem? If you were, then you probably don't have to use PPPoE, becuase you didn't set that up.
I am begining to suspect you have a unit which can act as a router; if so then you need to setup the Express to act as a bridge.
I do not know the specifics of that DSL service, but here's a general troubleshooting page which you may find helpful:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106749
You really need to make sure you can do a direct cable suggestion as this page suggests. You need to do that to determine where the location of the problem is.
If you had the modem only version, then the setup instructions which I gave you, with one minor modification, should have worked. If you have the router version, the instructions which I gave you are incorrect.
Does your ISP use what is called PPPoE ? If so, one thing you have to do is indicate that in the network prefrences of your Mac. When you open System Preferences, then click Network and click Configure, right next to the TCP/IP button is one labled PPPoE. That's where you would turn this feature on. I had just thought of this as a possibility. You would need to ask your ISP to know for sure.
The other thing is, if you have the router version of that Speed stream product, then you don't want your Airport Extreme assigning IP addresses, because your router is also trying to assign IP addresses. You would want to set up the Airport Express as a bridge; in effect it would just pass along the IP addresses assigned by the router. I looked at the spec sheet for both versions and I couldn't figure out from the pictures how to tell the two versions apart. Again, you might have to ask your ISP.
So that's two things to determine; do you need to configure PPPoE? And does your modem also act as a router? If it turns out that you have a router, then you would use the setup assistant for the Airport Express to set it to act as a bridge. I am not at home right now, so I can't tel you exactly at which screen in the setup procedure you would have to specify this.
So, were you able to get internet access by doing a direct ethernet connection to your modem? If you were, then you probably don't have to use PPPoE, becuase you didn't set that up.
I am begining to suspect you have a unit which can act as a router; if so then you need to setup the Express to act as a bridge.
I do not know the specifics of that DSL service, but here's a general troubleshooting page which you may find helpful:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106749
You really need to make sure you can do a direct cable suggestion as this page suggests. You need to do that to determine where the location of the problem is.
baldprof - Jul 18, 2005 - 9:14 pm
Okay, I have just re-read everything you have posted, and everything I have posted. Apparently you were able to connect to the internet via ethernet with one Mac. I just missed that part of it. I am sorry, really sorry, that I didn't notice that part. Also, the connection isn't working to well on it when it is directly connected or is it? I couldn't tell exactly. If the connection is working well when you use the ethernet for that one machine, then make sure you have duplicated all the settings exactly; so check to make sure network preferences match exactly, including the part about PPPoE.
Now just to make sure, if I understand you correctly, you want to connect your modem to an Airport Extreme base station via ethernet. Then you want to connect one Mac without an Airport card via ethernet to the base station. Then you want to connect to the base station wirelessly with another Mac that has an Airport Extreme card. That's exactly the way I have my network setup at home to share a DSL connection. I even have a PC with a wireless card on the network. This should be possible.
Here's what I did when I switched to DSL from a crappy cable access service. I connected my Powermac without a wireless card directly to the modem, did the setup to make sure everything worked as it should. ( I did not have to use PPPoE by the way).
Then I did the hard reset of the Airport base station, to put it back to the facory defaults, exactly as described on that one page I mentioned before.
Next I connected my modem to the WAN port and my Powermac to the LAN port. Then I reset the modem by unplugging it and then plugging back to the AC power. Then I powered up the Airport base station. I checked to make sure a the lights on the modem were glowing steadily; this is important, because otherwise you know it isn't communicating over the ethernet cable. (By the way, all other wireless devices were turned off during this.) Then I turned on the Powermac connected via ethernet, and ran the Setup Assistant; because I have just a plain modem, I set mine to distribute IP addresses using DHCP; if that's what you have, do the same. If not. because you have a router, then have your base station act as a bridge, and not assign IP addresses.
When the setup is finished, then I restarted my Powermac, and checked for internt access and email. Everything was as it should be.
Then, and only then did I attempt to connect to the base station with an iBook that had the Airport card. (By the way, I did the initial setup without any encryption, and kept the network open, just to make sure everything worked correctly; when that was certain, I used the Airport Administration utility to enable encryption. I also made a note of the Network Equivalent Password, because this is needed for any computers connecting wirelessly.)
It should really be that simple if you have everything connected properly, and you did a hard reset of the base station.
There is the posibility of either a defective base station or an incompatibility. Here's how I think you could tell if either was a factor. If you cannot connect to the base station via ehternet to set it up (as described above), then something is wrong with the base station. Just make sure you did the hard reset, and make sure you have connected to the correct ports before deciding this. If you can set it up using the Mac with out the Airport card, then you know you have a good base station. If you can get internet access with the wired Mac, then you know your base station is compatible with the DSL service (provided you have the router thing clarifed properly). BY the way, do not enable internet connection sharing in the sharing portion of system preferences. Your base station takes care of that.
If you can run the setup with the wired Mac, and have internet access with that Mac, and you cannot find the base station with the Mac which has the wireless card, then you either have a bad Airport card, or your other Mac is not setup properly. (There is a remote chance you have some localized inteference.)
Gee I sure hope you can make some progress now that you have my revised instructions. I really want to apologize again for overlooking part of what you had written.
Now just to make sure, if I understand you correctly, you want to connect your modem to an Airport Extreme base station via ethernet. Then you want to connect one Mac without an Airport card via ethernet to the base station. Then you want to connect to the base station wirelessly with another Mac that has an Airport Extreme card. That's exactly the way I have my network setup at home to share a DSL connection. I even have a PC with a wireless card on the network. This should be possible.
Here's what I did when I switched to DSL from a crappy cable access service. I connected my Powermac without a wireless card directly to the modem, did the setup to make sure everything worked as it should. ( I did not have to use PPPoE by the way).
Then I did the hard reset of the Airport base station, to put it back to the facory defaults, exactly as described on that one page I mentioned before.
Next I connected my modem to the WAN port and my Powermac to the LAN port. Then I reset the modem by unplugging it and then plugging back to the AC power. Then I powered up the Airport base station. I checked to make sure a the lights on the modem were glowing steadily; this is important, because otherwise you know it isn't communicating over the ethernet cable. (By the way, all other wireless devices were turned off during this.) Then I turned on the Powermac connected via ethernet, and ran the Setup Assistant; because I have just a plain modem, I set mine to distribute IP addresses using DHCP; if that's what you have, do the same. If not. because you have a router, then have your base station act as a bridge, and not assign IP addresses.
When the setup is finished, then I restarted my Powermac, and checked for internt access and email. Everything was as it should be.
Then, and only then did I attempt to connect to the base station with an iBook that had the Airport card. (By the way, I did the initial setup without any encryption, and kept the network open, just to make sure everything worked correctly; when that was certain, I used the Airport Administration utility to enable encryption. I also made a note of the Network Equivalent Password, because this is needed for any computers connecting wirelessly.)
It should really be that simple if you have everything connected properly, and you did a hard reset of the base station.
There is the posibility of either a defective base station or an incompatibility. Here's how I think you could tell if either was a factor. If you cannot connect to the base station via ehternet to set it up (as described above), then something is wrong with the base station. Just make sure you did the hard reset, and make sure you have connected to the correct ports before deciding this. If you can set it up using the Mac with out the Airport card, then you know you have a good base station. If you can get internet access with the wired Mac, then you know your base station is compatible with the DSL service (provided you have the router thing clarifed properly). BY the way, do not enable internet connection sharing in the sharing portion of system preferences. Your base station takes care of that.
If you can run the setup with the wired Mac, and have internet access with that Mac, and you cannot find the base station with the Mac which has the wireless card, then you either have a bad Airport card, or your other Mac is not setup properly. (There is a remote chance you have some localized inteference.)
Gee I sure hope you can make some progress now that you have my revised instructions. I really want to apologize again for overlooking part of what you had written.
baldprof - Jul 18, 2005 - 10:06 pm
By the way, I just checked back through some earlier cases, and found someone with the same ISP as you, the same modem, and an Airport Extreme base station. He was able to get it to work.
Heres' the entire exchange if you are interested:
On Jul 16, 9:31pm Rick wrote:
I have SBC DSL service featuring a SpeedStream 5100 DSL modem.
I have an Apple Airport Extreme wireless device.
My Mac is a Powerbook G4 12". Mac OS X 1.3.9
(I want to solve this problem before upgrading to Tiger.)
My Airport connection seems to be fine, since, among other things I can print to my printer that is connect to the Airport via USB cable. Also all the strength and other indicators seem to show a strong connection.
When I connect my Mac and the SpeedStream via ethernet cable I am able to connect to the internet.
But when I move that ethernet cable back to the Airport WAN connector, I cannot get the internet connection to work.
It used to work fine, for over a year.
I suspect something either in the Airport configuration or the SpeedStream configuration is bad, but I cannot find a comprehensive list of steps for either troubleshoot the settings, or even a list of how one would initiall setup all the settings.
Thanks for you mindshare! :-)
Response(s)
On Jul 18, 6:57am Michael B. wrote:
Here is a page which I believe explains the problem I think you have:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106836
It explains it better than I could, and even has pictures!
Let me know if this helps.
On Jul 18, 11:21am Rick wrote:
Thanks for your reply. It led me to sovle the problem, which it turns out was a little more complicated.
I found one of my ISP's two DNS IP addresses had "migrated" into the subnet mask field of the Airport configuration.
D'OH! Probably user error, compounded by bad UI, or, as I prefer to think, there's bug in the software ;-). I don't know why I didn't see it there the other half-dozen times I looked.
Also, word to the wise, troubleshooting will take longer when you forget to switch your PowerBook's location back to the DHCP "location" when trying to connect via Airport, and the manual "location" when using the ethernet wire directly to the modem. :-[
Heres' the entire exchange if you are interested:
On Jul 16, 9:31pm Rick wrote:
I have SBC DSL service featuring a SpeedStream 5100 DSL modem.
I have an Apple Airport Extreme wireless device.
My Mac is a Powerbook G4 12". Mac OS X 1.3.9
(I want to solve this problem before upgrading to Tiger.)
My Airport connection seems to be fine, since, among other things I can print to my printer that is connect to the Airport via USB cable. Also all the strength and other indicators seem to show a strong connection.
When I connect my Mac and the SpeedStream via ethernet cable I am able to connect to the internet.
But when I move that ethernet cable back to the Airport WAN connector, I cannot get the internet connection to work.
It used to work fine, for over a year.
I suspect something either in the Airport configuration or the SpeedStream configuration is bad, but I cannot find a comprehensive list of steps for either troubleshoot the settings, or even a list of how one would initiall setup all the settings.
Thanks for you mindshare! :-)
Response(s)
On Jul 18, 6:57am Michael B. wrote:
Here is a page which I believe explains the problem I think you have:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106836
It explains it better than I could, and even has pictures!
Let me know if this helps.
On Jul 18, 11:21am Rick wrote:
Thanks for your reply. It led me to sovle the problem, which it turns out was a little more complicated.
I found one of my ISP's two DNS IP addresses had "migrated" into the subnet mask field of the Airport configuration.
D'OH! Probably user error, compounded by bad UI, or, as I prefer to think, there's bug in the software ;-). I don't know why I didn't see it there the other half-dozen times I looked.
Also, word to the wise, troubleshooting will take longer when you forget to switch your PowerBook's location back to the DHCP "location" when trying to connect via Airport, and the manual "location" when using the ethernet wire directly to the modem. :-[
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