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TICKET ARCHIVE -> Dual 1.25 G4 Mdd03 Hangs On Start Up
ChrisHG - Aug 5, 2005 - 9:58 pm
OsX 10.3.(at least 5)
I get tones, I get apple logo, then I get blue screen. After a minute or so I get the following message;
"You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button."
in four languages.
I ran disk utility, repaired volume Macintosh Hard Drive, repaired disk permissions, restarted, still same result...
What else can I do?
I really tried to do it myself...
Thanks,
-Chris
I get tones, I get apple logo, then I get blue screen. After a minute or so I get the following message;
"You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button."
in four languages.
I ran disk utility, repaired volume Macintosh Hard Drive, repaired disk permissions, restarted, still same result...
What else can I do?
I really tried to do it myself...
Thanks,
-Chris
jimed - Aug 6, 2005 - 11:39 am
Hello Christian,
Sounds like you have taken all the normal steps in getting OS X up and running again. I suggest the next step is to rest the PRAM, select another startup folder or reinstall the OS. Take a look at this note from Apple:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...en/mh2238.html
>>>>
"You need to restart your computer" message appears
This message indicates that an error occurred in the core of the operating system, which is referred to as a kernel panic. A kernel panic can be caused by damaged or incompatible software or, in rare cases, by damaged or incompatible hardware. The most likely cause of the problem is that a system file or folder has been moved, replaced, or damaged.
If you know that you have moved or renamed a Mac OS X system file or folder, then you must reinstall Mac OS X. (It won't work to just replace the specific item.) If you are not aware of any changes to Mac OS X system files or folders, try the following procedures.
To reselect your Mac OS X startup volume:
Restart your computer. Most often the panic is an isolated event that requires no further action.
Restart your computer while holding down the X key. This may force the computer to start up using your Mac OS X system. If it does, release the X key, then open System Preferences and click Startup Disk. Make sure your Mac OS X system is selected.
If you are unable to start up using the X key, restart your computer and immediately press and hold the Option key. Release the Option key when icons start to appear in the center of the screen. Select the Mac OS X system disk, then click the forward arrow to continue starting up.
If the above attempts to reselect your Mac OS X startup volume are unsuccessful, try resetting PRAM. Shut down your computer, then turn on the computer and immediately press and hold Command-Option-P-R until you hear the startup sound for the second time. Open System Preferences, click Startup Disk, and select your Mac OS X volume.
Note: Resetting PRAM may change some system settings and preferences. Use System Preferences to restore your settings.
>>>>
Hope this helps, pleas let me know what happens.
Jim
Sounds like you have taken all the normal steps in getting OS X up and running again. I suggest the next step is to rest the PRAM, select another startup folder or reinstall the OS. Take a look at this note from Apple:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...en/mh2238.html
>>>>
"You need to restart your computer" message appears
This message indicates that an error occurred in the core of the operating system, which is referred to as a kernel panic. A kernel panic can be caused by damaged or incompatible software or, in rare cases, by damaged or incompatible hardware. The most likely cause of the problem is that a system file or folder has been moved, replaced, or damaged.
If you know that you have moved or renamed a Mac OS X system file or folder, then you must reinstall Mac OS X. (It won't work to just replace the specific item.) If you are not aware of any changes to Mac OS X system files or folders, try the following procedures.
To reselect your Mac OS X startup volume:
Restart your computer. Most often the panic is an isolated event that requires no further action.
Restart your computer while holding down the X key. This may force the computer to start up using your Mac OS X system. If it does, release the X key, then open System Preferences and click Startup Disk. Make sure your Mac OS X system is selected.
If you are unable to start up using the X key, restart your computer and immediately press and hold the Option key. Release the Option key when icons start to appear in the center of the screen. Select the Mac OS X system disk, then click the forward arrow to continue starting up.
If the above attempts to reselect your Mac OS X startup volume are unsuccessful, try resetting PRAM. Shut down your computer, then turn on the computer and immediately press and hold Command-Option-P-R until you hear the startup sound for the second time. Open System Preferences, click Startup Disk, and select your Mac OS X volume.
Note: Resetting PRAM may change some system settings and preferences. Use System Preferences to restore your settings.
>>>>
Hope this helps, pleas let me know what happens.
Jim
ChrisHG - Aug 6, 2005 - 2:41 pm
Thank you sooo much for the quich reply but...
here's where I am now.
I went so far as to re install the entire operating system.
Disc 1 went all the way through but never asked for disc 2. Went straight to restart. Then hung at the blue screen again...
Started up in safe mode and it went back to the installer and asked for disc 2. Went through disc 2 and completed intallation. Quit intaller and osx started up fine. Then for the heck of it restarted. Got blue screen again....?
I am still able to start in safe mode....
I have NEC 3500AG dvd connected... It's the only non standard peripheral connected. Gonna try removing it and see what happens... Strange since it's worked for a year...
here's where I am now.
I went so far as to re install the entire operating system.
Disc 1 went all the way through but never asked for disc 2. Went straight to restart. Then hung at the blue screen again...
Started up in safe mode and it went back to the installer and asked for disc 2. Went through disc 2 and completed intallation. Quit intaller and osx started up fine. Then for the heck of it restarted. Got blue screen again....?
I am still able to start in safe mode....
I have NEC 3500AG dvd connected... It's the only non standard peripheral connected. Gonna try removing it and see what happens... Strange since it's worked for a year...
ChrisHG - Aug 6, 2005 - 2:51 pm
Still the blue screen....?
I have some sort of hardware problem apparently.
Still have all alternative boot techniques (safe mode, single user, etc..) just no full startup.
Time to send it away?
I have some sort of hardware problem apparently.
Still have all alternative boot techniques (safe mode, single user, etc..) just no full startup.
Time to send it away?
jimed - Aug 6, 2005 - 3:02 pm
Yikes! I'm scratching my head with you now. :-)
Did you do a clean install when you re-installed the OS. If you did not - imported the old users, I wonder is something in the User folder is damaged. Do you have multiple use accounts and do the others work?
Did you run Disk Utility again and fix permissions?
Did you do a clean install when you re-installed the OS. If you did not - imported the old users, I wonder is something in the User folder is damaged. Do you have multiple use accounts and do the others work?
Did you run Disk Utility again and fix permissions?
ChrisHG - Aug 8, 2005 - 8:06 pm
ok I got fed up with it for awhile but I have a new direction. I went into safe mode and checked the system.log file.
There are a number of the following error on each boot that is not "safe";
localhost kernel: Graphics chip error! Restarted.
I work inside computers all day long so I did what they always say NOT to do. I opened the case and booted with it open. (careful not to touch anything. For observation only). I noticed that the fan on the graphics card never moves. It is an Nvidia Geforce IV titanium... At the moment I have to assume that the graphics card is the issue.
Will a safe boot bypass the Nvidia stuff? I assume it will since safe boot is supposed to bypass everything that is non-apple.
Since the monitor plugs directly into the Nvidia card how come I can see anything at all...? Is the graphics card just acting as a conduit in safe mode bypassing the functionality of the actual Nvidia hardware?
Sorry so long winded but I decided to give it another shot...
Thanks for all the help...
There are a number of the following error on each boot that is not "safe";
localhost kernel: Graphics chip error! Restarted.
I work inside computers all day long so I did what they always say NOT to do. I opened the case and booted with it open. (careful not to touch anything. For observation only). I noticed that the fan on the graphics card never moves. It is an Nvidia Geforce IV titanium... At the moment I have to assume that the graphics card is the issue.
Will a safe boot bypass the Nvidia stuff? I assume it will since safe boot is supposed to bypass everything that is non-apple.
Since the monitor plugs directly into the Nvidia card how come I can see anything at all...? Is the graphics card just acting as a conduit in safe mode bypassing the functionality of the actual Nvidia hardware?
Sorry so long winded but I decided to give it another shot...
Thanks for all the help...
jimed - Aug 10, 2005 - 7:49 pm
Christian,
I'm glad your going looking into the logs for possible ideas. The log I think you need to look at is named panic.log and is located in:
/Library/Logs/
The fan on the MAY be temperature controlled so not running all the time but I honestly do not know. I'm afraid you have gone beyond my knowledge and Nvidia's knowledge base did not help. The Nvidia site does not show Mac drivers to download so I would think a archive and install on the OS would install new drivers.
Rather than go through step by step and take days of back and forth time, I'll bet you can take a look at these Apple Tech Notes and sort through the procedure:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25398
and
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464
This will lead you through deleting the items that could also be causing this such as login item, kext file, cache or even a damaged font.
If you would like I can send this question back to the open questions pool and see if any of the other techs know more about the fan that is not running.
Good luck and pleas let me know how this turns out.
Jim
I'm glad your going looking into the logs for possible ideas. The log I think you need to look at is named panic.log and is located in:
/Library/Logs/
The fan on the MAY be temperature controlled so not running all the time but I honestly do not know. I'm afraid you have gone beyond my knowledge and Nvidia's knowledge base did not help. The Nvidia site does not show Mac drivers to download so I would think a archive and install on the OS would install new drivers.
Rather than go through step by step and take days of back and forth time, I'll bet you can take a look at these Apple Tech Notes and sort through the procedure:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25398
and
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464
This will lead you through deleting the items that could also be causing this such as login item, kext file, cache or even a damaged font.
If you would like I can send this question back to the open questions pool and see if any of the other techs know more about the fan that is not running.
Good luck and pleas let me know how this turns out.
Jim
ChrisHG - Aug 10, 2005 - 10:34 pm
Thanks again for all the help.
I have no "panic.log" but I do have a WindowServerCrash.log file.
So it crashes during something called WindowServer.
I'll reproduce the important parts of the log;
Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00481954
I play with software and hardware and addresses and stuff all day long so I recognized at the bottom of the log that there is a block of address ranges where various space is allocated.
The KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE is at 0x00481954 which is listed in address range;
0x00405000 - 0x004f3fff
which is labelled as GLEngine.
I assume a graphics engine is either on a ROM chip on the graphics card or somewhere in the video RAM also on the Nvidia card. Am I right? I feel like I'm getting close to something... It's the engineer in me... can't help it...
I should say that earlier in this process I made sure that I saved everthing I needed on a seperate hard drive and did a full (erased the disk completely) intstall of osx 10.3.5 which I assume would install drivers so I doubt that its a driver or OS problem.
Anyway, this is getting to be alot like work....
Thanks again for all the help and feel free to share my plight with anyone who can help...
I have no "panic.log" but I do have a WindowServerCrash.log file.
So it crashes during something called WindowServer.
I'll reproduce the important parts of the log;
Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00481954
I play with software and hardware and addresses and stuff all day long so I recognized at the bottom of the log that there is a block of address ranges where various space is allocated.
The KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE is at 0x00481954 which is listed in address range;
0x00405000 - 0x004f3fff
which is labelled as GLEngine.
I assume a graphics engine is either on a ROM chip on the graphics card or somewhere in the video RAM also on the Nvidia card. Am I right? I feel like I'm getting close to something... It's the engineer in me... can't help it...
I should say that earlier in this process I made sure that I saved everthing I needed on a seperate hard drive and did a full (erased the disk completely) intstall of osx 10.3.5 which I assume would install drivers so I doubt that its a driver or OS problem.
Anyway, this is getting to be alot like work....
Thanks again for all the help and feel free to share my plight with anyone who can help...
jimed - Aug 11, 2005 - 7:55 pm
Christian,
Yes, I agree, a clean install should eliminate all the corrupted file issues. Time to throw the tech notes away. :-) I wonder if 'GLEngine' is the Open GL Engine in X.
Your winning me over to the graphics card, do you have another video card you can try?
You have been so thorough I'm sure you have already thought of this but did you add any software or hardware before this happened?
I'm going to send that back to the open pool and see if we can get another idea or two.
Jim
Yes, I agree, a clean install should eliminate all the corrupted file issues. Time to throw the tech notes away. :-) I wonder if 'GLEngine' is the Open GL Engine in X.
Your winning me over to the graphics card, do you have another video card you can try?
You have been so thorough I'm sure you have already thought of this but did you add any software or hardware before this happened?
I'm going to send that back to the open pool and see if we can get another idea or two.
Jim
ChrisHG - Aug 11, 2005 - 9:18 pm
I do assume (not the best idea but it's all I got) that the GLEngine is the Open GL Engine.
I don't have another video card to try. I'm going to have to shell out the cash for one. Could someone point me towards a good upgrade graphics card that will work in the dual 1.25 G4's?
I have looked and the only ones I find seem to be a downgrade or they only work on the G5's. I'd be happy to have another of the same card but it appears they are no longer made or sold...
And I hadn't added any ware (soft or hard or even firm) for quite awhile before this happened.
One other note, I remember quicktime throwing a "Application Quicktime has Unexpectedly Quit" error before this happened. And it gave the same error every time I tried to run it after that which was only a couple of times before I got the "You must shut down" error at which point it never came back up....
In safe mode Quicktime will not run. Application unexpectedly quits every time.
Also my windows were "weird" just before this happened. When I dragged a window it left a trail of windows behind it (like the window was the brush in the old MacPaint program and I was drawing with it). And scroll in the windows was weird. Only part of the window scrolled and it was jumpy and unpredictable.
I guess this all would tend to make sense since it was the WindowServer that crashed...
But why would WindowServer crash in regular boot but not safe boot.... I got it! Maybe WindowServer is loaded into regular RAM on a safe boot and Video RAM on a regular boot.... And Quicktime tries to load into the Video RAM so the windows work on a safe boot but Quicktime doesn't.
And further more I tried to turn the unturning fan on the graphics card and it feels stiff like it seized. Not nice and frictionless feeling like most computer fans.
I'm going to refine my diagnosis from:
"something is wrong with the video card"
to:
"the fan seized on the graphics card, some component (perhaps the VRAM itself) got fried, and now when I boot regularly it crashes when it attempts to load the GLEngine into the VRAM. But it doesn't crash on a safe boot since the Nvidia functionality is skipped as it is third party hardware/software."
Sounds plausible doesn't it?
Sorry I was on a roll...
Maybe I should become a tech support guy....
I don't have another video card to try. I'm going to have to shell out the cash for one. Could someone point me towards a good upgrade graphics card that will work in the dual 1.25 G4's?
I have looked and the only ones I find seem to be a downgrade or they only work on the G5's. I'd be happy to have another of the same card but it appears they are no longer made or sold...
And I hadn't added any ware (soft or hard or even firm) for quite awhile before this happened.
One other note, I remember quicktime throwing a "Application Quicktime has Unexpectedly Quit" error before this happened. And it gave the same error every time I tried to run it after that which was only a couple of times before I got the "You must shut down" error at which point it never came back up....
In safe mode Quicktime will not run. Application unexpectedly quits every time.
Also my windows were "weird" just before this happened. When I dragged a window it left a trail of windows behind it (like the window was the brush in the old MacPaint program and I was drawing with it). And scroll in the windows was weird. Only part of the window scrolled and it was jumpy and unpredictable.
I guess this all would tend to make sense since it was the WindowServer that crashed...
But why would WindowServer crash in regular boot but not safe boot.... I got it! Maybe WindowServer is loaded into regular RAM on a safe boot and Video RAM on a regular boot.... And Quicktime tries to load into the Video RAM so the windows work on a safe boot but Quicktime doesn't.
And further more I tried to turn the unturning fan on the graphics card and it feels stiff like it seized. Not nice and frictionless feeling like most computer fans.
I'm going to refine my diagnosis from:
"something is wrong with the video card"
to:
"the fan seized on the graphics card, some component (perhaps the VRAM itself) got fried, and now when I boot regularly it crashes when it attempts to load the GLEngine into the VRAM. But it doesn't crash on a safe boot since the Nvidia functionality is skipped as it is third party hardware/software."
Sounds plausible doesn't it?
Sorry I was on a roll...
Maybe I should become a tech support guy....
TechSupport - Aug 14, 2005 - 9:30 pm
This ticket has been moved to the open forums for more exposure.
Please follow this link:
http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238702
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