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TICKET ARCHIVE -> G3 Mac 10.3 Upgrade
krbmedia - May 8, 2005 - 2:41 am
I just got the 400mhz Bondi Blue, Imac G3. It had OS 9.0.4 on it and I am trying to install 10.3. I did a firmware check and it said I did not need to update that (4.9.1f).
Heree's the deal. When I re-install 9.0.4 everything goes smoothly.
When I try to install 10.3 and I move my mouse too fast or do anything else, it freezes up and my cursor disappears. Even with 10.2 this happens. I have 512mb or RAM, and a 115 GB hard drive.
What am I doing wrong?
Heree's the deal. When I re-install 9.0.4 everything goes smoothly.
When I try to install 10.3 and I move my mouse too fast or do anything else, it freezes up and my cursor disappears. Even with 10.2 this happens. I have 512mb or RAM, and a 115 GB hard drive.
What am I doing wrong?
Saxphile - May 8, 2005 - 5:52 am
Hi Allen,
Sound like you've got bad RAM. OS X is much more sensitive to that than OS 9. Please run the hardware diagnostics CD on your computer and see if everything is okay, particularly the memory portion.
Let me know how that turns out.
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Sound like you've got bad RAM. OS X is much more sensitive to that than OS 9. Please run the hardware diagnostics CD on your computer and see if everything is okay, particularly the memory portion.
Let me know how that turns out.
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 8, 2005 - 7:41 pm
I changed out the memory, did a test (all passed) and still freezes up.
Saxphile - May 8, 2005 - 8:00 pm
Hi Allen,
Does it always freeze at the same step or is it just random? It appears that a number of people has had issue with installing OS X on the original iMac, and RAM module is the prime suspect. See this thread for more detail:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...gD.3@.68ad02cf
I suggest that you try to remove the 2nd memory module and leave only the Apple factory-installed one in place.
You might also want to look at this thread:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...gD.2@.68ab0e81
Let me know if this helps you.
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Does it always freeze at the same step or is it just random? It appears that a number of people has had issue with installing OS X on the original iMac, and RAM module is the prime suspect. See this thread for more detail:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...gD.3@.68ad02cf
I suggest that you try to remove the 2nd memory module and leave only the Apple factory-installed one in place.
You might also want to look at this thread:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...gD.2@.68ab0e81
Let me know if this helps you.
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 8, 2005 - 10:00 pm
The funny thing is it originally had osx but I wanted OS 10.2 at the minimum. It worked fine with 10.1. Now it freezes.
Aslo, there is a problem with the display. Sometimes it takes three tries to get it on. Strangely enough, if I start it upside down the display works great.
Aslo, there is a problem with the display. Sometimes it takes three tries to get it on. Strangely enough, if I start it upside down the display works great.
Saxphile - May 8, 2005 - 10:17 pm
Hi Allen,
According to the reports, you can put the potentially problematic RAM module back in after the installation without any problems. So it is possible that the additional RAM was installed after 10.1, Given how expensive momery was at the time, it's entirely possible.
CRT monitors are known to develop quirky problems after years of usage. It works like an old car - you need to let it warm up first. As for why it works upside down - that's why I called it quirky. But how did you discovery that trick? Do you often use your computer upside down?
Cheers,
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
According to the reports, you can put the potentially problematic RAM module back in after the installation without any problems. So it is possible that the additional RAM was installed after 10.1, Given how expensive momery was at the time, it's entirely possible.
CRT monitors are known to develop quirky problems after years of usage. It works like an old car - you need to let it warm up first. As for why it works upside down - that's why I called it quirky. But how did you discovery that trick? Do you often use your computer upside down?
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 9, 2005 - 12:27 pm
Tried different combos with the memory and it did not help. I also partitioned the way it says but it still freezes during installation. Do you think it could me my mouse? My apple mouse broke so I am using a Microsft one?
Regarding the upside down trick, that was an accident when I had it upside down, replaced the memory, and then wanted to see if it had an effect.
Regarding the upside down trick, that was an accident when I had it upside down, replaced the memory, and then wanted to see if it had an effect.
Saxphile - May 9, 2005 - 5:38 pm
Hi Allen,
I'd be very surprised if the mouse is causing problems. I've been using non-Apple mouse since I switched to mac and never had any problems. One last trick. Does your iMac have a firewire port? Can you try to run it in target disk mode and install from another computer?
Cheers,
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
I'd be very surprised if the mouse is causing problems. I've been using non-Apple mouse since I switched to mac and never had any problems. One last trick. Does your iMac have a firewire port? Can you try to run it in target disk mode and install from another computer?
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 9, 2005 - 9:04 pm
It does and I have no idea how to do that.
Saxphile - May 9, 2005 - 10:04 pm
Hi Allen,
Please see this thread for a detailed description. It refers to Tiger, but the technique will work for any OS X release:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...Tiger+Firewire
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Please see this thread for a detailed description. It refers to Tiger, but the technique will work for any OS X release:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...Tiger+Firewire
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 10, 2005 - 8:21 pm
Okay, I got through the installation part but it still freezes up.Any more ideas?
Saxphile - May 10, 2005 - 8:26 pm
Hi Allen,
Do you mean that you've finished installation and the machine freezes during the successive start? If so, then I'm sure you've got a hardware issue and it is 99% likely to be memory. Can you identify which memory module you have is originally from Apple and just put that one in?
Charlie
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Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Do you mean that you've finished installation and the machine freezes during the successive start? If so, then I'm sure you've got a hardware issue and it is 99% likely to be memory. Can you identify which memory module you have is originally from Apple and just put that one in?
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 10, 2005 - 8:44 pm
I am finding out since it was a gift. I did do the hardware test and it came out OK.
I see on some of the messages that they recommend putting in the original memory in the bottom or top slot. If it matters, which one do I put it in (if the computer is upside dwon, monitor facing me)
I see on some of the messages that they recommend putting in the original memory in the bottom or top slot. If it matters, which one do I put it in (if the computer is upside dwon, monitor facing me)
Saxphile - May 10, 2005 - 9:15 pm
Hi Allen,
The two slots should be the same. But you can definitely try to put it in different slots and see what happens, now that you can know the result more easily with that Panther installation on your hard drive. As far as I can tell from the threads at Apple Discussion there's no magic slot.
For more information, see
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95144
Hope this helps,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
The two slots should be the same. But you can definitely try to put it in different slots and see what happens, now that you can know the result more easily with that Panther installation on your hard drive. As far as I can tell from the threads at Apple Discussion there's no magic slot.
For more information, see
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95144
Hope this helps,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 10, 2005 - 9:16 pm
P.S. Could the battery have anything to do with it?
krbmedia - May 10, 2005 - 9:22 pm
P.S. I tried to install the updates before it froze and I got the spinning cursor, then the cursor disappeared then froze again. Don't know if that helps at all.
Saxphile - May 10, 2005 - 9:39 pm
Hi Allen,
I doubt the battery is causing your problem. Don't misunderstand me, a drained battery CAN cause a lot of problems, just not the ones you described.
Try the tips on this page just for the heck of it and see what happens:
http://www.capecodgraphics.com/imac_firmware.htm
If you want to try the battery, here's the instructions (scroll down to the Battery Swap part):
http://www.macworld.com/2002/10/secrets/mac911/
If none of the tricks works for you, then I'd have to file this under Life's Great Mysteries and send the question back to open pool.
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
I doubt the battery is causing your problem. Don't misunderstand me, a drained battery CAN cause a lot of problems, just not the ones you described.
Try the tips on this page just for the heck of it and see what happens:
http://www.capecodgraphics.com/imac_firmware.htm
If you want to try the battery, here's the instructions (scroll down to the Battery Swap part):
http://www.macworld.com/2002/10/secrets/mac911/
If none of the tricks works for you, then I'd have to file this under Life's Great Mysteries and send the question back to open pool.
Good luck!
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Saxphile - May 14, 2005 - 5:50 am
Hi Allen,
Just want to check if things worked out. If not, I'll send this topic back to the open pool so more experienced people can help you.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Just want to check if things worked out. If not, I'll send this topic back to the open pool so more experienced people can help you.
Cheers,
Charlie
--------
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
krbmedia - May 14, 2005 - 8:33 pm
I have not tried the battery or resetting thin yet. It seems complicated. The memory and the hard drive did not help, unless both strips I have are not right.
chevy - May 17, 2005 - 1:39 pm
I had freeze problems on my G3... it was related to the full HD.
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krbmedia - May 17, 2005 - 2:07 pm
What do you mean by that?
chevy - May 17, 2005 - 2:10 pm
You need to have 3-5 GB free on your system hard disk for OS-X to operate correctly.
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krbmedia - May 17, 2005 - 2:27 pm
I tried it with a 115GB drive.
chevy - May 17, 2005 - 2:32 pm
The point is not the size of the HD, but the free room on it.
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krbmedia - May 17, 2005 - 2:45 pm
I had disk utility from my OS9 disk completely erase it.
chevy - May 17, 2005 - 3:11 pm
What if you clean-install OS-X first, and then install OS-9 ?
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krbmedia - May 17, 2005 - 3:42 pm
After i clean install OSx it freezes up so I can't do anyhting else.
chevy - May 17, 2005 - 4:07 pm
So we are back to a hardware problem.
I have to push this thread back to the open questions...
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Ace - May 18, 2005 - 1:30 am
One question: after the mouse cursor disappears, does the clock in the menu bar stop? That is to say, is this machine completely frozen or is it just not accepting any input?
There are a few things I could get from you that would tell me more about this, but if it actually is frozen (the clock sticks at the point where the machine crashes) this sounds like a bad motherboard to me. (Honestly, it sounds like a bad cache unit, CPU or GPU, although usually with an overheating GPU you'll see some whacky screen effects of one kind or another before the machine locks up.) Basically, something is overheating that wasn't used nearly as hard in 9 and 10.0/10.1, and it's dying when you try to drop 10.2 or 10.3 on there because they're hitting whatever-it-is harder.
There was a notorious problem like this for people with G3 Bronze Keyboard (Lombard) Powerbooks, which was caused by bad cache and/or some sort of manufacturing defect, which meant that a huge percentage of the people with these machines couldn't install or boot 10.3, even though 10.2 worked fine. Sometimes juggling the RAM from one slot to another, with the other slot empty, helped. Someone reported success by putting his machine in the refrigerator for the install. My thinking is, if you need to put your computer in the refrigerator in order to install your software, you probably ought to do yourself a favor and get a new computer.
If you really want to pursue this further, let me know whether the clock is frozen or not when you have this problem, and I'll tell you where to track down some kernel panic and crash logs that might shed more light on the subject. But I'm going to bet you dollars to doughnuts that the issue is a motherboard problem of some sort.
--Adam
There are a few things I could get from you that would tell me more about this, but if it actually is frozen (the clock sticks at the point where the machine crashes) this sounds like a bad motherboard to me. (Honestly, it sounds like a bad cache unit, CPU or GPU, although usually with an overheating GPU you'll see some whacky screen effects of one kind or another before the machine locks up.) Basically, something is overheating that wasn't used nearly as hard in 9 and 10.0/10.1, and it's dying when you try to drop 10.2 or 10.3 on there because they're hitting whatever-it-is harder.
There was a notorious problem like this for people with G3 Bronze Keyboard (Lombard) Powerbooks, which was caused by bad cache and/or some sort of manufacturing defect, which meant that a huge percentage of the people with these machines couldn't install or boot 10.3, even though 10.2 worked fine. Sometimes juggling the RAM from one slot to another, with the other slot empty, helped. Someone reported success by putting his machine in the refrigerator for the install. My thinking is, if you need to put your computer in the refrigerator in order to install your software, you probably ought to do yourself a favor and get a new computer.
If you really want to pursue this further, let me know whether the clock is frozen or not when you have this problem, and I'll tell you where to track down some kernel panic and crash logs that might shed more light on the subject. But I'm going to bet you dollars to doughnuts that the issue is a motherboard problem of some sort.
--Adam
krbmedia - May 18, 2005 - 10:06 am
I will let you know. I do get it installed, if I move quickly enough, but after, it freezes when I try to use it.
krbmedia - Nov 22, 2005 - 5:25 pm
It starts when I go through the inital user setp after install
Natobasso - Nov 29, 2005 - 5:13 pm
Howdy!
If you still have OS 9 on the comp it has to be 9.2.2 to run Classic with OS X. I think 10.1 had lots of support for any classic version but that was later restricted as apple's tried to bury 9 in the scrap heap.
If you are running OS X you should probably erase and install instead of archive and install, but you'll then have to reinstall software. At least you'll know for sure it's not a software issue.
Have you run fsck -y in safe mode so your comp can test itself without DOS? Reboot and hold command + s and then type fsck -y into the prompt (Black screen white text) in order to start the system check.
Let me know.
If you still have OS 9 on the comp it has to be 9.2.2 to run Classic with OS X. I think 10.1 had lots of support for any classic version but that was later restricted as apple's tried to bury 9 in the scrap heap.
If you are running OS X you should probably erase and install instead of archive and install, but you'll then have to reinstall software. At least you'll know for sure it's not a software issue.
Have you run fsck -y in safe mode so your comp can test itself without DOS? Reboot and hold command + s and then type fsck -y into the prompt (Black screen white text) in order to start the system check.
Let me know.
krbmedia - Nov 29, 2005 - 9:00 pm
Do you think I should restore the os 9 first then do all the updates for that and then install Tiger? I have tried the erase and install and it installs fine but then freezes up when starting.
I will try the command thing you mentioned tonight. What should I be looking for?
It worekd fine originally with 10.1, if that makes a difference
I will try the command thing you mentioned tonight. What should I be looking for?
It worekd fine originally with 10.1, if that makes a difference
Natobasso - Nov 29, 2005 - 10:00 pm
Back up all your files you want to keep somewhere else first. Just to be safe.
I would upgrade your 9.0.4 to 9.2.2 first. Then do the fsck -y. Then try to install your os x.
If it doesn't work you may have to wipe and install everything again, but we're trying to avoid doing this.
Do you have any other devices plugged in besides your mouse and keyboard while you're trying to install op sys software?
I would upgrade your 9.0.4 to 9.2.2 first. Then do the fsck -y. Then try to install your os x.
If it doesn't work you may have to wipe and install everything again, but we're trying to avoid doing this.
Do you have any other devices plugged in besides your mouse and keyboard while you're trying to install op sys software?
krbmedia - Nov 29, 2005 - 10:05 pm
There is nothing on it that I care about keeping. It was a gift. I will try what you said. I already did an erase and install but will try it after the updates.
Does OS 9 havea built in updater or do I need to go to the site?
Does OS 9 havea built in updater or do I need to go to the site?
krbmedia - Nov 29, 2005 - 11:14 pm
I never got the prompt when I held the command and the s key. That's the key with the Apple on it and the letter S right?
Natobasso - Nov 30, 2005 - 12:53 am
Try it with the shift key only (you did it correctly the first time, but the fact it doesn't work is VERY troubling).
Do you have a hardware test cd? You might want to try it. At this point I think previous posters might have this one right, you might have bad RAM. Do you have a service center nearby that can check out your computer?
Do you have a hardware test cd? You might want to try it. At this point I think previous posters might have this one right, you might have bad RAM. Do you have a service center nearby that can check out your computer?
krbmedia - Nov 30, 2005 - 3:25 pm
Neither worked. The Apple + S key did nothing and the shift key just truned off extensions. I will try and find a hardware disc.
Natobasso - Nov 30, 2005 - 4:14 pm
You must be booting into OS 9 then. Does the grey screen with the apple come up or the welcome to OS 9 screen?
Boot up with the x key held down to force os x to start, then restart using the command + s to do the safe mode rebuild.
Or just use your system disk to repair the disk, that might just work too. A hardware test cd will tell you if you have bad RAM installed.
Let me know how it goes.
Boot up with the x key held down to force os x to start, then restart using the command + s to do the safe mode rebuild.
Or just use your system disk to repair the disk, that might just work too. A hardware test cd will tell you if you have bad RAM installed.
Let me know how it goes.
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