Ticket Options
Question Profile
| DATE | Aug 11, 2006 |
| TICKET | #27661 |
| STATUS | Closed |
| SUBJECT | Trying to install Jaguar (10.2) on a bie |
| CAT | Computers, Operating Systems, Applications or Connected Devices |
| TYPE | Operating System Features, Bugs and Problems |
| DESC | Apple |
| DESC | 10.2.X |
| PLATFORM | Apple Macintosh (PowerPC G3,G4,G5) |
| MODEL | Apple Biege G3 |
| PROC | 400 mhz |
| RAM | 448 meg |
| DRIVE | 4 gig |
| NAME | Ken |
| USERNAME | kenandcathy |
| TECHNICAL | Lots of Experience |
| ISSUE | Stumped |
Question Details
TICKET ARCHIVE -> Trying to install Jaguar (10.2) on a bie
kenandcathy - Aug 11, 2006 - 6:20 pm
I've been trying to install Jaguar on my biege G3 for some time now.
Specs on my machine are a 400mhz G3, 448 meg running OS 9.2.2. I have an Apple boxed copy of Jaguar (disk # 2Z691-3704A). I have a Lite-On LTR523278 CD-R/W drive and a Viewsonic 20" VA2012wb monitor. I am trying to install the system on its own 4 gig drive.
On my first attempt, the "can't select CD as startup" error message appeared. So I replaced my LiteOn with a 'real' Apple CD (modelCR-585-B).
That got a restart to a grey screen with the pointer frozen in the upper left corner of the screen. The only way I could get the machine to reboot was to remove the backup battery for about 45 minutes. Then it rebooted to 9.2 just fine.
Next I replaced my monitor with a 'real' Apple monitor (model M1212) and unplugged my Rage card so the monitor went straight into the motherboard. Same grey screen on the attempted install. Same 45 minute wait to reboot.
Then I turned off virtual memory. Same result.
I've run out of things to try. I checked Apples site for upgrades for my system, and there are none.
Can anyone help?
Thanks,
Ken
Specs on my machine are a 400mhz G3, 448 meg running OS 9.2.2. I have an Apple boxed copy of Jaguar (disk # 2Z691-3704A). I have a Lite-On LTR523278 CD-R/W drive and a Viewsonic 20" VA2012wb monitor. I am trying to install the system on its own 4 gig drive.
On my first attempt, the "can't select CD as startup" error message appeared. So I replaced my LiteOn with a 'real' Apple CD (modelCR-585-B).
That got a restart to a grey screen with the pointer frozen in the upper left corner of the screen. The only way I could get the machine to reboot was to remove the backup battery for about 45 minutes. Then it rebooted to 9.2 just fine.
Next I replaced my monitor with a 'real' Apple monitor (model M1212) and unplugged my Rage card so the monitor went straight into the motherboard. Same grey screen on the attempted install. Same 45 minute wait to reboot.
Then I turned off virtual memory. Same result.
I've run out of things to try. I checked Apples site for upgrades for my system, and there are none.
Can anyone help?
Thanks,
Ken
DeltaMac - Aug 11, 2006 - 6:52 pm
The Beige G3 came with a maximum of 333 MHz processor. Have you tried putting the original Apple processor back in place?
Do you have ANY PCI cards, in addition to the video card that you already mentioned? Try removing all other cards that you have installed, (even if original to the system, such as a SCSI adapter card)
What happens if you have the Jaguar install disk in, then simply restart, holding the letter C? This should force the system to try to boot to the install CD. Don't run the install app from OS 9, as this could be failing for you. Its only real purpose is to reset the startup disk and restart the computer. Just choose to restart without running that app. Turning off virtual memory serves no purpose. OS X provides whatever is needed, and does not rely on anything that OS 9 provides.
Do you have ANY PCI cards, in addition to the video card that you already mentioned? Try removing all other cards that you have installed, (even if original to the system, such as a SCSI adapter card)
What happens if you have the Jaguar install disk in, then simply restart, holding the letter C? This should force the system to try to boot to the install CD. Don't run the install app from OS 9, as this could be failing for you. Its only real purpose is to reset the startup disk and restart the computer. Just choose to restart without running that app. Turning off virtual memory serves no purpose. OS X provides whatever is needed, and does not rely on anything that OS 9 provides.
kenandcathy - Aug 19, 2006 - 5:45 pm
Hi -
Sorry, I didn't understand how to reply to you.
I tried all your suggestions. I tried restarting the machine with the Jaguar Install disk in the CD holding down the "c" key. Same grey screen.
I removed all PCI cards and try (I have a USB card in addition to the Rage and Apple personality card installed). That didn’t help either.
So, I'm beginning to suspect my install CDs. I have an Apple store nearby - could they check the CDs for me?
Sorry, I didn't understand how to reply to you.
I tried all your suggestions. I tried restarting the machine with the Jaguar Install disk in the CD holding down the "c" key. Same grey screen.
I removed all PCI cards and try (I have a USB card in addition to the Rage and Apple personality card installed). That didn’t help either.
So, I'm beginning to suspect my install CDs. I have an Apple store nearby - could they check the CDs for me?
TechSupport - Aug 19, 2006 - 10:40 pm
- Aug 21, 2006 - 10:57 am
I'm awaiting another response to my last post.
kenandcathy - Aug 22, 2006 - 7:23 am
Still waiting
DeltaMac - Aug 22, 2006 - 2:13 pm
Sorry for the long delay to answer - this support system has been recently upgraded, and still has a few bugs, I was not notified of a response until Aug 22.
You did mention originally that your Beige G3 has a 400 MHz processor - is that correct?
That's not an original processor - the maximum was 333 MHz. Do you still have the original, and have you tried reinstalling that one? The reason I ask - some older upgrade processors may not work reliably with an OS X install. This is a common occurrence, and you can usually install OS X with the original processor, and replace with the upgrade after OS X is installed. That often works OK.
Let me know what you find out....
- Dale
You did mention originally that your Beige G3 has a 400 MHz processor - is that correct?
That's not an original processor - the maximum was 333 MHz. Do you still have the original, and have you tried reinstalling that one? The reason I ask - some older upgrade processors may not work reliably with an OS X install. This is a common occurrence, and you can usually install OS X with the original processor, and replace with the upgrade after OS X is installed. That often works OK.
Let me know what you find out....
- Dale
kenandcathy - Aug 22, 2006 - 5:24 pm
Dale -
Thanks for the reply. No, I haven't tried the old CPU. I'm sure I have it and will give it a try. Unfortunately that won't be until Friday. I'll get back to you then with results.
Ken
Thanks for the reply. No, I haven't tried the old CPU. I'm sure I have it and will give it a try. Unfortunately that won't be until Friday. I'll get back to you then with results.
Ken
kenandcathy - Aug 23, 2006 - 5:29 pm
Well, I'm still getting notices to reply. So I am.
kenandcathy - Aug 25, 2006 - 11:33 am
Dale -
Well, I tried 333Mhz, held down the "c" at restart. I got the "?" disk icon, the CD drive cranked up - then the Apple restart chime. It wouldn't start from the CD. Then I tried dropping the speed to 300Mhz. Same result.
So, I'm still where I started. I tried all your suggestions (some of which I haden't seen on Apples help site), and still nothing. I'm really suspecting the disks now, since I read on one of the Apple replies that there had been a bad batch of 10.2 disks. Have you heard anything about this?
I'm probably going to take a run over to the Apple store after Labor Day with all my info and see id they can (or will) do anything.
It's really frustrating.
Well, I tried 333Mhz, held down the "c" at restart. I got the "?" disk icon, the CD drive cranked up - then the Apple restart chime. It wouldn't start from the CD. Then I tried dropping the speed to 300Mhz. Same result.
So, I'm still where I started. I tried all your suggestions (some of which I haden't seen on Apples help site), and still nothing. I'm really suspecting the disks now, since I read on one of the Apple replies that there had been a bad batch of 10.2 disks. Have you heard anything about this?
I'm probably going to take a run over to the Apple store after Labor Day with all my info and see id they can (or will) do anything.
It's really frustrating.
DeltaMac - Aug 25, 2006 - 1:17 pm
What do you mean by "it wouldn't start from the CD"?
Make sure that you are holding only 'C', and not Apple-C
If you can't get anyhere with booting to that CD - yes, some were damaged, and it's often visible as a 'waviness' along the outside edge of the coating on the CD.
You can often burn a copy of the CDs on another Mac, and the copy will work fine. That's assuming the problem is because of the disk.
Here's a completely different solution, which may or may not be practical for you. Remove the hard drive, put it in an external case, and install 10.2 on that external hard drive while connected to another Mac. (Well, you need another Mac that will boot to 10.2). When complete, replace the hard drive in the beige G3. It's something that I do quite often here, but I have access to a variety of other Macs.
Make sure that you are holding only 'C', and not Apple-C
If you can't get anyhere with booting to that CD - yes, some were damaged, and it's often visible as a 'waviness' along the outside edge of the coating on the CD.
You can often burn a copy of the CDs on another Mac, and the copy will work fine. That's assuming the problem is because of the disk.
Here's a completely different solution, which may or may not be practical for you. Remove the hard drive, put it in an external case, and install 10.2 on that external hard drive while connected to another Mac. (Well, you need another Mac that will boot to 10.2). When complete, replace the hard drive in the beige G3. It's something that I do quite often here, but I have access to a variety of other Macs.
kenandcathy - Aug 25, 2006 - 5:32 pm
First of all, yes, I do know how to start a Mac from the CD. I've been using them for 20+ years.
I do have another identical G3 desktop available. It's my wifes, and I want OS10 on that one too so she can use Photoshop Elements 3. So I could try that. The other unit is running 9.2.2 with a 333Mhz processor and 256 meg of memory. It's the same vintage as the one I use, but I guess it's worth a try.
But my desktops are not the minitower beige units, but the ones that actually sit on the desk with a monitor on top of them. Don't see how that would make a difference, but then I've seen some really wierd "fixes" for installation on the Apple website.
I do have another identical G3 desktop available. It's my wifes, and I want OS10 on that one too so she can use Photoshop Elements 3. So I could try that. The other unit is running 9.2.2 with a 333Mhz processor and 256 meg of memory. It's the same vintage as the one I use, but I guess it's worth a try.
But my desktops are not the minitower beige units, but the ones that actually sit on the desk with a monitor on top of them. Don't see how that would make a difference, but then I've seen some really wierd "fixes" for installation on the Apple website.
DeltaMac - Aug 25, 2006 - 6:38 pm
Sometimes you have to ask for the simple answers. One never knows about the knowledge level, and some people simply miss the obvious, so I ask - so I don't miss an easy fix....
Don't know if my suggestion will go anywhere, when you have essentially the same hardware on the second Mac.
Here's one of those weird fixes that you mentioned - take out all memory, so you are left with exactly 256MB, and try the install again...
If you are suspicious of the installer CDs, make your own copies of those CDs, and use those, just as a test.
Don't know if my suggestion will go anywhere, when you have essentially the same hardware on the second Mac.
Here's one of those weird fixes that you mentioned - take out all memory, so you are left with exactly 256MB, and try the install again...
If you are suspicious of the installer CDs, make your own copies of those CDs, and use those, just as a test.
kenandcathy - Aug 27, 2006 - 12:03 pm
I just tried the disks on my wifes G3 and they worked fine. So obviously, it's something in my machine.
I have my "main" HD in ATA slot0, and my drive that I want to install OS10 installed in slot1 as the master and the CD as the slave. The reason I mention this is that I noticed whenever I was rebooting with the OS10 CD (which wouldn't work, of course), and then went back to my regular HD, the "OS10 HD" icon would be missing from the desktop and the Apple System Profiler. I'd have to rebuild the desktop or resort to removing the battery to get it back.
Since I've removed the PCI cards, memory and swapped the CPU with no effect, is there anything else I can try.The ROM version on my machine is $77D.45F2 which I think is a late model, so it should run 10 just fine if I can ever get it to recognize it.
I have my "main" HD in ATA slot0, and my drive that I want to install OS10 installed in slot1 as the master and the CD as the slave. The reason I mention this is that I noticed whenever I was rebooting with the OS10 CD (which wouldn't work, of course), and then went back to my regular HD, the "OS10 HD" icon would be missing from the desktop and the Apple System Profiler. I'd have to rebuild the desktop or resort to removing the battery to get it back.
Since I've removed the PCI cards, memory and swapped the CPU with no effect, is there anything else I can try.The ROM version on my machine is $77D.45F2 which I think is a late model, so it should run 10 just fine if I can ever get it to recognize it.
DeltaMac - Aug 27, 2006 - 1:07 pm
I think I would make one more attempt at configuration, with the goal to make the system as simple as possible.
Set the drive that you want to install OS X as master. install that one on the bottom of the case as the only hard drive. The CD should be the only other device. And, try again to install.
Set the drive that you want to install OS X as master. install that one on the bottom of the case as the only hard drive. The CD should be the only other device. And, try again to install.
IF THIS IS YOUR QUESTION AND YOU WISH TO RESPOND, LOGIN HERE FIRST.
