itunes Music Store Europe

Muzgal

Registered
For those of you like me who want a itms in europe, go http://www.petitiononline.com/pi4gh5h8/petition.html and sign this petition. It probably won't do anything, but they do say "It's better to light a candle than to complain about the dark!"

Europe wants to join the fun. Otherwise M$ is gonna control even online music over here, which would be cause to consider moving to America (yeah, that bad..:)
 

monktus

Registered
There are other threads on this. Apple is working on iTMS for Europe but they have lots of negotiation to do with record labels and royalty collection agencies across the whole of Europe! Steve suggested that it would be done in early 2004, which hopefully it will, but be patient. It is happening but it's a lot of work, there isn't much point in petitions.
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
Yep, signing any petition isn't going to get it done any faster, since it's no secret that Apple is bringing the store to Europe.

And if you damn Europeans paid your musicians ridiculous amounts of money like here in the states, then there'd already be an iTMS over there -- but NOOOOO! You've gotta be all high and mighty and pay the artists FAIRLY like some FAIR people or something! Hehe... only kidding! ;)

Japan and Australia are getting the iTMS according to this thread:

http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39412

...so I'm sure Europe is right around the corner. It's not because Apple's not working hard on it, it's because it's difficult to keep track and to negotiate with ALL the different royalties that need to be paid and contracts that need to be signed across the expanse of Europe. Soon...
 

uoba

Re: member
Even the petition is worded as support to Apple, not as a 'hey get your act together' message. Therefore I've signed it.
 

Muzgal

Registered
I think that the petition is not designed to force Apple to do anything. I am well aware of the issues involved in setting up a European store. I just felt that if, many, people signed this then the record companies would realise the mareket that they are missing out on...
 

Muzgal

Registered
I agree, I hope that I was implying that the record companies were causing the problems. If the record companies were more flexible then it would be easeir to work around the legislation. The laws in Europe are not acutally prohibitive to business, I think that the problem is more to do with record companies in each country being obstructive.
Anyway roll on the US of E...
 

garymum4d

Idiot
Don't send the petition to Apple.

SEND IT TO THE DUMB RECORD COMPANY'S who wouldn't recognise a GOOD thing if it jumped up and smashed them in the face
 

Muzgal

Registered
understood. We do have a large proglem with braod band adoption in the UK. Without broad band music stores are much less attractive, it still isn't instant gratification.
My real concern is that with several online music stores in the UK (including one from Microsoft) Apple are going to miss out, which will not only be bad for me but will further marginalise Apple in Britain.
I feel that if it is possible for MS and Virgin to negotiate non-subscription services here then there is someon being slow in the Apple negotiation. Perhaps it is the attempt to get all of Europe at once.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Yet, Apple should start to think about interoperability. They claim they're using the 'open' solution, i.e. MPEG-4/AAC. And yet, it's the solution that lacks choice. I must say that I kindof agree with the critics here. Buy an iPod and buy tracks on iTMS - and you're basically locked in. Won't be able to play your tunes should you ever choose a different digital music player.

On the other side, we have the 'closed' solution of WMA. But while it's a closed solution, it opens a world of different music players to the user.

The question is: What can Apple do? They've locked themSELVES in, I believe. Open the iPod to WMA? No-can-do right now, as it would severely impact iTMS's impact. License their AAC DRM to other music players' manufacturers? Would have quite an impact on iPod sales...

Right now, this is not a problem, as iPod as a momentum - and so has iTMS. But the lack of iTMS worldwide (and Europe for me, especially...) is bad. And even _when_ there's worldwide iTMS access, there's still the problem of being locked in. Not a problem for me, who wants to keep his iPod 10G and maybe buy a new iPod some day, but a problem for users who want choice.
 

gigapet

Registered
Well it seems that AOL users can now use the iTunes Music Store but we here in the UK still can't. I know there's a million reasons why we can't and I understand them but doesn't it feel a little bit like we are having our noses rubbed in it?
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
Do you expect Apple to simply halt the forward momentum of the music store until all countries can use it? They're doing exactly what needs to be done -- they've got quite a few pots on the burners... they're expanding the music store as possibilities surface, all while still working on the international music store. If Apple stops now, Wal-Mart, Microsoft and who knows else will surely have an opportunity to catch up. No one's nose is being rubbed in anything -- you just have more to look forward to once the music store does reach the UK.

I don't understand what exactly is taking so long, though. I understand the same as everyone else that there are licensing restrictions and differences in the UK and other countries, but hell, Apple walked into the music labels' offices in the US and basically said, "Take it or leave it," and they should be doing the same overseas.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Hm. That's not what Apple's been doing in the USA. Not at all. They went and showed them the store. How it would work. How it would be safe. And easy to use. They explained. Again and again.

I just hope that Apple can get it over and done with... Just do it. I just hope we won't have to pay much more per song here... Would be bad. The dollar isn't worth very much nowadays (was quite a bit higher in the past few years). For once, we should get a good pricing structure in Europe...
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
Well, I was referring to the pricing scheme -- 99 cents a song, 9.99 an album (for the most part) and those prices were non-negotiable. Obviously, they had to back down a little bit to get some of the artists they have on there, but for the most part, the pricing was a "take it or leave it" kind of thing.

I'm looking forward to the release of the iTMS in Europe simply for the "ha ha!" factor -- we'll be able to stare Wal-Mart and Microsoft in the faces for once and say that we were here first and we're the best, and it doesn't matter how big they are -- we're going to make the bigger profit and be more successful. I think every competing music store will quickly find out that it's quite difficult to turn a profit when you're doing business with the RIAA and the big music companies -- the only difference is that Apple has the iPod to back it all up. None of the competing music stores have a piece of hardware to back up their stores that they can call their own. All they have is more hardware and software to sell, and their music stores aren't really an incentive to purchase more hardware from them.
 

Randman

HA! HA! HA!
Write nasty letters to the weasel lawyers who are keeping it bogged down to myriad copyright laws.
 

monktus

Registered
I think some people are still missing the point about why it's taking longer to get iTMS in Europe. If you've ever tried to license a song for something (CD-ROM, cover version, TV ad, whatever) you'll know how big a hassle it is. Apple sorting out a new distribution medium in the US was a big feat in itself, now it's trying to do it over at least a dozen other countries. I'm not sure of the details for the US one, but I wouldn't think the RIAA would have had much to do with it, they're just an industry association, like the BPI over here. Apple have to negotiate with the record companies for the right to distribute the various recordings (i.e. the big 5 and the larger indie labels) and the various royalty collection societies (ASCAP in the US, PRS here, plus all the European ones). Remember that an artist might not (and often isn't) signed to the same record company in the UK or France as they are in the US. What Apple is doing is a damn big deal. I can't wait for it to happen either but it's taking time and there isn't really anything that we can do about it.
 
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