Just curious...

edX

mac shaman
ok, i'll admit it. those people who haven't got any intention of ever contributing anything more than their smart ass remarks and whining about how their day got interrupted have really got me annoyed.

as people who have seen in your hearts to help this site survive, i'm wondering how you feel about their complaining. it almost seems to me like they are insulting you for taking the responsibility of helping thru giving. if i thought they were justr a bunch of teenagers who haven't grown out of the entitlement stage, i'd just let it all blow past. but i know several of them are grown adults and they still don't get the idea that it's not scott's obligation to provide this site for their amusement. so i said some things that have been building in me ever since i first started trying to explain this whole episode to people.

so what do you guys think? how do you feel about their 'protests'? or do you just ignore them? (which is probably what i should do)
 
There will always be some one who will complain. No matter what you do there will be something they do not like. We can't please all the people all the time.
And it is usually the people who have a good thing and don't see it because of the strange glasses they wear.

Since we can never make them happy, ignore them.:)
 
For many people it's hard to realize they can be asked to pay one day for what they before used to get for free.

Maybe they have not noticed that even the big sites have the "please support" threads and notices, and that even big sites have expenses.
Even Versiontracker and macosxhints asks its users to give some money for expenses if you think it's worth something. But I am sure if e.g. versiontracker would transform to exclusively working for paid members only - like some AIX stuff .. mmh, rootvg.net or some other really unix prof are - even they would loose a lot of clients. Some other portal would try to offer those services still free. And when they would fail, then something else..

If versiontracker or macosxhints or any other forum they go to, had the same situation - really bad need of $ - they would complain the same. I ignore what some of them rant .. as I have seen what they have done (e.g. in their boards). Bandwidth and hosting with the amount of traffic that this site has, is sure not free .. but they keep thinking Scottw is their daddy? I wish the banner business would bring enough money to keep this site up and without making scott to loose his sleep.

Scott isn't getting this site free, and they just don't fully realise it. But those who did help - Thanks. :)
 
Even the whiners have a place on macosx.com. They remind the rest of us just how civil and useful we can be to each other. Politicians should do all their international negotiations via an online forum. Much more influence than the United Nations!

Oh - does that mean I join the Jason club and become elitist?:D

I haven't contributed much in the way of useful info to these forums but I've sure as hell found them useful and entertaining in hundreds of ways.

EDIT: OK, now everyone knows I've contributed!
 
but I do think the manner of asking was done incorrectly. I still donated because I've found useful tips on this site and do understands the costs involved in running a forum. A simple editorial note, posted on the front page would have been better alongside a link to Pay Pal. This may or may not have worked, but if it wouldn't work then this forum is doomed anyway. You can't abruptly shut it down for 120 hours every few months to pay the bills.

In one of the threads there was a comment that very few people take up the offer for email accounts and such. In my case that's understandable. My Macintosh is a tool, and a substrate@macosx.com account really does nothing for me. I'm not religious about anything, including religion or computers.

The biggest draw for MacOSX.com in my opinion are the posters, in fact in reality that is its only asset. I'm assuming that this site isn't intended as a business venture but that the owner (understandibly) doesn't want to lose money with every visitor. This is a balance, how do you minimize the costs associated with allowing your visitors (paying or not) to contribute value to your forums?
 
Originally posted by substrate
The biggest draw for MacOSX.com in my opinion are the posters, in fact in reality that is its only asset. I'm assuming that this site isn't intended as a business venture but that the owner (understandibly) doesn't want to lose money with every visitor. This is a balance, how do you minimize the costs associated with allowing your visitors (paying or not) to contribute value to your forums?

Well, then let's be imaginative. :)

I'm pretty sure there _are_ ways for such a big forum to raise money from 'the outside' as well.

Who would pay for so many Mac heads to see their banner? I'm sure there are hard- and software makers or sellers that would pay a bit.

Just thinking... We could even host a banner contest. The ultimate commercializing of macosx.com. ;) In a forum, the forum members are placing their new banners for, say, VirtualPC 7 by Microsoft. (I know, I know, bad example...) The crowd would select the best one and an online reseller or even the maker would then mount the banner for a week on macosx.com (and pay for it).

Think evolution. A thousand bad ideas - one might actually be good. ;)
 
I'm not surprized that many people react as they do. Remember, all these adults that make several $10000 a year and spend their time stealing music thanks to kazaa and others instead of spending $20 for a CD. And copy games instead of buying these.

Internet has lots of good apects, it has one bad one: people tend to forget that behind any software, and artwork, any music, there is someone who spend part of his life to make it. It may be free, or shared, or for sales.

The same applies to chat... one can see very bad behaviour from people who forget that they are communicating with other people, not with their PC.

So I'm not surprized by the bad reactions. One may discuss the method used by Scott, but not the fact that he owns the site, and we can use it only because we are his guests.
 
I just joined today, but am enjoying what I see so far, I didn't hesitate for a second when it came to donating:)
 
I had to stop and think before I decided to donate. But when I did, I realized how much time I spend on this forum. I enjoy reading the posts (even the ugly flaming posts). Sometimes I want to kill some of the obnoxious people, but it's still fun. And I learn a lot of cool tricks here. Not to mention keep up on all the latest Mac news.
Some people are just imature. But they do contribute to this site in their own way. So take them with a grain of salt, and remember that physical age and mental (emotional age) are respective.
:)
 
Hi All...

You will find me speaking more openly inside here than outside these forums.

About 8 years ago, I worked a non-profit radio station. I had no clue what it took to run a radio station, a 100,000 watt radio station (the largest FM transmitter allowed by the FCC). This was a big radio station, run by a skeleton crew and the crew was paid with skeleton wages as well.

Before I had this wonderful experience in my life, I dispised non-profit radio and TV stations (like PBS) for stopping their normal daily programming to raise funds. I thought, if they want the money, why don't they just ask for it, why make a big deal about shutting down normal programming for a full week (or until the goal was met).

I would get mad and turn to another channel, or change my radio to a similar station not running a "raise-money-a-thon".

But through my experience, ouside macosx.com and inside macosx.com, one fact remains. Money is not raised by posting a link on the site. True, some money is, and many have done that. But, the real fund raising only happens when you stop what people are used to using and make them realize what value the TV station, radio station or website provides to them.

Salon.com recently said they would not continue unless they gained 50,000 more subscribers. I am sure they are feeling the heat as well with comments that say, I can go somewhere else, I ain't paying. They burned through 80 million dollars, but does that neglect that fact they are in need? Maybe you or I would have been better stuarts of our VC funding if we were running it, but honestly... we can only assume we would know, based upon what little information we do have.

The same is for this site. Whether it costs $100/year or $100,000/year... the fact remains that your contributions are needed for this site to continue. Your contribution, whether you agree with the method used for 45 hours, still came through, and you where a catalyst to getting this site online after 45 hours, instead of 120.

What $1 or $100 donated did was show me that this community will stand behind what it finds to be a valuable service. That shows more respect than any of you can imagine.

With all that said, yes I have had experience before raising funds for numerous organizations both profit and non-profit, and I know what doesn't work and what does work. I also know what people like and what they don't like. But this around was more about seeing results than tickling people's ears.

Once again, thanks to each of you.
 
You don't come back a second time if you didn't take something away the first time. This place may be 'free' but everyone owes it something.

I suggest you expand the 'friends' scheme a little, although I'm not sure how.
 
Originally posted by Zimbop
I suggest you expand the 'friends' scheme a little, although I'm not sure how.

what exactly do you mean by this?

are you saying something like 'let the helpful posters in here too' or what?
 
Originally posted by edX
what exactly do you mean by this?

Well, perhaps make it obvious who has donated by giving them a special avatar (stars, a happy mac). This would show who the nice people are.
 
oh, ok. that makes sense. the 'site supporter' title is meant to do that, but i agree, a nice avatar would be good as well.

twister?? :D what are the chances you could whip up a suitable avatar for supporters? (what can i say, i like your work :) )
 
More smiles or different color smiles for supporters :p

Polls :p

Free Apple Cider at Herve's Bar Thread... :eek:
 
Originally posted by edX

[...] the 'site supporter' title is meant to do that, but i agree, a nice avatar would be good as well.

My apologies, I hadn't even seen the 'site supporter' title, which makes me think the avatar really is a good idea. It's good because it's a way of reminding people that they can contribute without being "in your face".
 
I'm still in two minds (but hey, that's my problem ...) about the tactics, but on balance I'm afraid that it takes something like closing down to get people's attention - I doubt I would have done otherwise. I did have to think twice, but then I thought about how much money/time (same thing when you're self-employed) this place has saved me and didn't think thrice. Maybe now we should be invited to make an annual contribution, or something like that - while you've still got our attention?

Like the idea of an avatar.
 
A 'special' avatar isn't really possible, because as soon as you've got it, someone else could copy it. Easily by copy & paste, really.
 
Wouldn't an annual contribution feel too much being a corporate shareholder?

I've no problem with being invited to contribute - but we could wind up with too many chiefs and not enough Indians all claiming to have out-contributed each other, therefore thinking they have the right to say who posts and who doesn't, putting pressure on Scott W and the mods and refusing to contribute if they don't like a thread.

That wouldn't happen with the majority of the people here but there's bound to be one or two who'd go that far. Part-ownership of a business as opposed to a enjoying a resource.
 
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