1.25GHZ is just overclocked 1GHZ

I

isgoed

Registered
Don't buy the new G4 1.25 Ghz mac. It is just an overclocked 1 Ghz model. There are sources on it on internet. just use Yahoo. Why else would there be such a dramatic venting system on it. I suspected it right away. This means that Motorola was not able to produce a faster chip in 6 months.

My advise is not to bu a G4 at all. It was a big management mistake to drop th development f the G5. As far as I am concerned, the current development shows no future for apple. This is a real shame because already in 2001 motorola had a 2.6Ghz G5 prototype in their labs. Their only rescue is if they are already working on a venture with IBM, intel or AMD for use with OSX.

My next computer will be a PC. Intel already is testing a 4.5Ghz Pentium 4.
 
Ouch. Cant... Respond... Too... Many... Flame... Ideas.... Come...To...Mind....

I've been down on Apple lately, but I'm not gonna bait this troll post....
 
hey, how about a link to one of those "sources"? I am sure they are all reputable and respected purveyors of truth. :rolleyes:
 
This is absurd.

What do you think a P3 750 MHz CPU is? Its a P3 700 MHz running at 133 MHz system bus, not 100 MHz.

Most processors unless their core changes are just "overclocked" versions of the original.

As they produced the 1 GHz G4 the more efficient they became given them higher yields of stable 1 GHz G4s thus allowing them to bump the speed from 1 GHz to 1.25 GHz and not worry about it crashing.

Now that 1.25 GHz G4 will continue to be produced and the cycle will continue until the core changes. The price for the 1 GHz G4 went down while the 1.25 GHz G4 went up. What's the big deal?

If they get a lot of 1.25 GHz G4s that don't run stable at that speed, they'll bump them down to 1 GHz. Its all in the manufacturing process and how its refined.

This is nothing new but thanks for the heads up.
 
I could not find my original source on the internet any more (which was the best one), but I found loads of others:

Evidence:

http://www.mail-archive.com/macnews@insanely-great.com/msg00342.html
http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=6037

how the overclocked processors could be fit on the systembusses

http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=6037
http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/08/Anunbelievablekludge.shtml

motorola's G4 7455 specs

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7455&nodeId=01M98653


And where are all the good developers going. Is a Playstation II emulator ever coming? See the Grinch project at www.macraider.com. Or can the mac Hardware keep up with the demands new games need.

BTW
I am not trolling. I know what it is, because I read about it in Macworld UK edition october 2002 Page 41. (Provoking people by making (false) statements). I own a performa 630, an iMac and a powerbook G4550. So I am serious
 
Really I see no valid point in all of this. Anyone who's read the slightest inking of Apple-related news in the past year knows that Moto basically sucks. As for the "overclocking" it's like what itanium said about the 750 PIII just being an overclocked PIII 700. It's always been like that no matter what the processor, no big deal. And where does it say that development of the G5 has stopped? It hasn't. It's just not going to be a desktop processor. This is where IBM comes in, it's up and coming PPC 970, a derivative of the Power4, will be your 'G5'. It won't be a 'G5'. Don't get too stuck on the Gx naming convention, it's probably gonna change come the PPC 970. I really see no valid reason why you're going to just drop support for Apple. It's not Apple's fault that Motorola's been fumbling and fumbling. Perhaps Apple has been a bit slow in responding to it...but now they finally seem to have. I see a bright future coming with IBM's PPC 970...don't lose faith yet.
 
What's wrong about this place? You're all bitching this new member for providing a relevant link to an interesting story!? What a warm welcome :rolleyes: :mad:

We're talking about APPLE overclocking 1 GHz chips. Not MOTOROLA. And I find it highly likely, as Motorola still have no papers or documentation on 1.25 GHz chips. When the 1 GHz G4 was introduced, Motorola had it on their site two or three days later.

And, as isgoed said, why would they completely redesign the cooling system in the G4 just because of a 25% speed increase?
 
Because it is overclocked. Nobody is denying that. It doesn't matter who did the overclocking. It's been going on for along time all over the PC market. Big deal./...
 
Originally posted by kommakazi
Because it is overclocked. Nobody is denying that. It doesn't matter who did the overclocking. It's been going on for along time all over the PC market. Big deal./...
Click to expand...

Sure it matters. If Motorola sold them at 1.25 GHz, they would at least have been properly tested before rated at that speed. But when Apple does it, it can lead to instability.
And what makes this really bad (if it's true) is the fact that the 1.25 Ghz processor itself, leaving all other higher specs of the 1.25 GHz model alone, costs $650 more than the 1 GHz. That's $650 for some soldering I could've done in a couple of minutes.

I'm seriously going to have a look under the heatsink of a 1.25 GHz G4...
 
Actually 1GHz chips are underclocked 1.25GHz ones.

All G4s are cast in the same process. The thing is, not all of them turn out the same way - we're talking about millions of microscopic circuits; a couple of misaligned atoms can mean an imperfection that slows down one circuit's response time. The whole chip has to be run slow enough that every circuit can keep up.

Here's the way that chip makers figure out how fast to run a processor: They make a chip. They test it at the highest speed they sell. If it shows errors (most will), they test it at progressively lower speeds until it runs without errors.

So, if you overclock your processor, you're just deciding that Motorola's quality control department is too picky for you. Yes, on a 1GHz G4, probably 99.999% of the circuits on the chip are capable of running reliably at 1.25GHz. You won't see any errors until you do operations that involve the last .001% of circuits, that can't quite keep up. Which, at 1.25 billion operations a second, mightn't actually take all that long.
 
Originally posted by scruffy
Actually 1GHz chips are underclocked 1.25GHz ones.

All G4s are cast in the same process. The thing is, not all of them turn out the same way - we're talking about millions of microscopic circuits; a couple of misaligned atoms can mean an imperfection that slows down one circuit's response time. The whole chip has to be run slow enough that every circuit can keep up.

Here's the way that chip makers figure out how fast to run a processor: They make a chip. They test it at the highest speed they sell. If it shows errors (most will), they test it at progressively lower speeds until it runs without errors.

So, if you overclock your processor, you're just deciding that Motorola's quality control department is too picky for you. Yes, on a 1GHz G4, probably 99.999% of the circuits on the chip are capable of running reliably at 1.25GHz. You won't see any errors until you do operations that involve the last .001% of circuits, that can't quite keep up. Which, at 1.25 billion operations a second, mightn't actually take all that long.
Click to expand...

Nope.
The highest rated official G4s are 1 GHz. A 1 GHz chip is sold as a 1 GHz chip, and you never know how fast they really can run. Some may do 1.4 GHz, while some can't even do 1,1 GHz. They're all rated the same.
The point is, that IF this rumor is true, you pay $650 more for exactly the same processor, just clocked at a higher frequency.
 
Like you said, not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1.25 GHz. Its likely that not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1 GHz. I guess Apple would slap those into a 133 MHz System Bus and call them 867 MHz G4s.

What is important to remember though is that as Motorola refines their manufacturing processes the cost of 1 GHz G4s decreases and the ability to run them at higher speeds increases.

The only reason you should have a problem with Apple charging more for a 1.25 GHz G4 is if they didn't charge less for a 1 GHz G4 which they do. Its all relative.

Again, like you said, not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1.25 GHz. I guess that would make those that can "different", more costly to produce and worth the additional fee.
 
Originally posted by itanium
Like you said, not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1.25 GHz. Its likely that not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1 GHz. I guess Apple would slap those into a 133 MHz System Bus and call them 867 MHz G4s.

What is important to remember though is that as Motorola refines their manufacturing processes the cost of 1 GHz G4s decreases and the ability to run them at higher speeds increases.

The only reason you should have a problem with Apple charging more for a 1.25 GHz G4 is if they didn't charge less for a 1 GHz G4 which they do. Its all relative.

Again, like you said, not all 1 GHz G4s can run at 1.25 GHz. I guess that would make those that can "different", more costly to produce and worth the additional fee.
Click to expand...

I don't say they should sell 1.25 GHz G4s for the same price as 1 GHz ones. I'm saying that Apple should leave overclocking up to the customers, or at least inform that these chips aren't really rated at the speed they're selling them at.

Theoretically, if you cool a 1 GHz down to absolute zero, you can run it at speeds the world has never seen before. It's all relative :rolleyes:

But we're talking about rated speeds now, and what speed they can run on with normal cooling. Motorola has not refined their manufacturing processes and the fastest chips they ship are rated 1 GHz.
 
They are rated at the speeds they are selling them at. Don't you understand these chips have been tested and found stable at 1.25 GHz?

You can't just pick out any 1 GHz G4 and run it at 1.25 GHz. These chips are "special."

Leave overclocking to the consumer? You'd have a lot of fried G4s then. Not a great idea.

Tell them these chips aren't really rated at the speed... blah blah? Anyway, why? They are rated for 1.25 GHz. They have been tested by Apple and found to run stable at these speeds.

If you'd bother to take a business class or 12, you'd learn through mass production, the process becomes refined, the good becomes better quality and the manufacturing costs reduce.

This allows Motorola to make faster G4s and charge less overall.

Have you ever thought through new manufacturing techniques and refinement the initial rating could change? Well that's a wild idea isn't it.

My iBooks battery is rated for five hours but thanks to power management, I can make it last seven. Damn Apple for lying to me! :rolleyes:
 
KSV complained that we're bitching at new members for discussing overclocking. I think the point is that we're really sick to death of hearing people say, "I'm going to buy a Windows PC."

Boo hoo. I have a Windows PC. They're not that much to get excited about. I like my iBook better. Can't we talk about Mac's without people going, "Game Over, Man!" every other day?
 
Originally posted by itanium
They are rated at the speeds they are selling them at. Don't you understand these chips have been tested and found stable at 1.25 GHz?

You can't just pick out any 1 GHz G4 and run it at 1.25 GHz. These chips are "special."

Leave overclocking to the consumer? You'd have a lot of fried G4s then. Not a great idea.

Tell them these chips aren't really rated at the speed... blah blah? Anyway, why? They are rated for 1.25 GHz. They have been tested by Apple and found to run stable at these speeds.

If you'd bother to take a business class or 12, you'd learn through mass production, the process becomes refined, the good becomes better quality and the manufacturing costs reduce.

This allows Motorola to make faster G4s and charge less overall.

Have you ever thought through new manufacturing techniques and refinement the initial rating could change? Well that's a wild idea isn't it.

My iBooks battery is rated for five hours but thanks to power management, I can make it last seven. Damn Apple for lying to me! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Gaah! Read for yourself! Motorola has no 1.25 GHz chip.
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M0ylsbTdG
The chip Apple uses in both the dual 1 GHz and dual 1.25 GHz G4s is exactly the same one as they used in the dual 1 GHz Quicksilver, wchich means that if you buy a Quicksilver instead, you'll get a cooler running and easier to overclock CPU.
 
How do you overclock it. I wan't to run 867 MHz G4 at 1.25 GHz. Show me how.

Oh wait, you can't? I guess that 1.25 GHz G4 is worth a little more to me than that 867 MHz G4. Hmmm, go figure!

Your argument is weak, all CPU manufacturers do this. Why the sudden interest in Motorola?

Also, not all 1 GHz G4s will run stable at 1.25 GHz. What don't you understand about this. This is what makes the 1.25 GHz G4 special and worth the additional cost. Lower yield equals higher cost. Tada!
 
Well, in Japanese Mac Mod shops, they are always OC-ing this and that... and you can find loads of Japanese Mac Sites doing this (second largest market in the world for Apple) and what they do not show you is....

How long does the OC-ed G4 run stable? Tada! They can get a G4-1Ghz to run at 1.25 for an hour? And after a month? What happens? Fried? Nah, they will not tell you this... so I kinda have to support what itanium mentioned. These are more stable chips that was used in 1.25 towers.

I dun care if they have found a new way to OC a 400Mhz G4 chip to a 5Ghz G5... as long as it works, I will part with my money for it. Simple as that. I think Apple does a decent QC job.

My opinion. Dun bite me.
 
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