# South Korea 2 - 1 Italy



## uoba (Jun 18, 2002)

enough said


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## Captain Code (Jun 18, 2002)

Wah hoo!

Well, since Canada's not in the World Cup, I might as well root for South Korea, since I know a few Koreans.

&#44032;&#51088; &#54620;&#44397;(let's go Korea)!


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## uoba (Jun 18, 2002)

this World Cup is turning out to be the best... Italy, Argentina, France, Portugal, Sweden all out, it's unbelievable!!

1.2 million South Korean lined the streets after the game, fantastic!!


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## Captain Code (Jun 18, 2002)

No kidding!

I can't say that I know a lot about soccer(being from North America), but from what I've heard, Italy was really good as well as Portugul, and probably the others you mentioned too.

I believe that it has something to do with the amazing support that the South Korean people are giving their team.  One game I watched, the stands were almost completely filled with red shirts(Red Devils ), with the crowd chanting something in Korean that I couldn't quite make out 

All the other games I've watched, there wasn't a red shirt in sight


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## simX (Jun 18, 2002)

Obviously you guys didn't watch the game.

Italy was playing much better than Korea.  The only reason Korea won?  The ref.

I know I'll be accused of being biased to Italy here, but if you watched the game, there is no way you can say that that ref was a fair one.

Did you guys see that DELIBERATE ELBOWING IN THE PENALTY BOX by the Korean player on the Italian player?  What did the ref do?  He ran over, and made the players kiss and make up.  Seriously, he came over and just reprimanded the Korean player.  No yellow card, no penalty kick.

And this is the same ref that earlier in the game gave a penalty kick to the Koreans for a little shirt pull by an Italian.

I'm not saying that the Italians are immune from shirt-pulling and stuff, as they were doing some stuff too, but no doubt they were getting frustrated by the ref.  Not only did they have to go up against a formidable opponent, and they were doing very well, but they had to go up against the ref too.

I have nothing against South Korea, but I do hold a grudge against refs who pretty much give the game to one team.  I hope that ref gets fired.

That game made me sick.  The one game where the Italians started playing much better than they were earlier in the cup, and they get sent home because of a biased ref.  

Well, hopefully I can cling on to the Americans.  That would be neat if they won the World Cup, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## uoba (Jun 19, 2002)

They should've tried to score more than 1 goal then! (Do what Brazil do, score 5, then if one get's ruled out, no worries, you've scored 4!!)

Italy are most depressing and negative side to watch, well done South Korea! 

As for the referee, welcome to the world of football!


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## simX (Jun 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *They should've tried to score more than 1 goal then! (Do what Brazil do, score 5, then if one get's ruled out, no worries, you've scored 4!!)
> 
> Italy are most depressing and negative side to watch, well done South Korea!*



Heh, Korea was a formidable opponent.  It's not that Italy was not trying to get another goal, it's just that Korea would not allow them to.  Like I said, Korea was a formidable opponent, and they might have won much the same even if the referee was fair.  But Italy was battling against Korea AND the ref, which makes it much harder to win.



> *As for the referee, welcome to the world of football! *



This is the most disturbing quote I've heard in a while.  You complain about Americans changing the name of soccer, while you don't care a bit about the technical problems that are coming to light with the World Cup.  Sounds like typical American values. 

Or maybe it's typical Korean values that also perpetuate the hacking and shirt-pulling after bribing the ref.


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## roger (Jun 19, 2002)

> Or maybe it's typical Korean values that also perpetuate the hacking and shirt-pulling after bribing the ref.



The S. Koreans did play better than the Italians towards the end of the match. They are the fittest side in the world cup. They deserved to win. The penalty was a penalty (in fact two fouls were committed at the same time). The difference between the shirt pulling in one instance and the other is determined by who has control of the ball. If neither do then it is a fifty-fifty decision. If the ball is out of play then the referee cannot award a free kick (read your rules) but do several things: talking to the players is one of them. Awarding a caution would not have been appropriate and may exacerbate the situation. The referee is there to protect the players and handles it in their own way. The referees at the world cup are extremely experienced. 

The match was fairly refereed. Italy had their golden goal disallowed which was a bit harsh, but it is difficult even for TV cameras in slow motion to determine exactly whether he was on/off side with the speed of the play. Italy had one really bad decision against them in the whole competition - where the player was given offside even though he was clearly behind the ball. Toti was unlucky maybe to be sent off, though he shouldn't have picked up two cards. Remember, he already had a caution, so why did he go down so easily in the penalty box - he is asking for problems. If you have a caution you play more within the rules. Toti didn't.

The quote 'welcome to the world of football' doesn't mean that all referees are corrupt, it simply means that occaisioanally mistakes will be made. However, on average the mistakes will cancel out. 

SimX, you have stated before that you know little about football and you are showing your ignorance of the game with these comments. I certainly do not appreciate your racist comments about S. Koreans.

R.


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## uoba (Jun 19, 2002)

You'd know that some of the greatest footballing moments ever where bad decisions!

Englands 3rd goal in 1966 World Cup final (did it cross the line, didn't it? Who cares we won the world cup! )

Maradona's 'Hand of God' goal

etc... etc...


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## tismey (Jun 19, 2002)

The Korean guy who scored the golden goal has been sacked from the Italian club he played for. The coach says he won't pay a salary to the man who ruined Italian football!!


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## simX (Jun 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by roger _
> * The S. Koreans did play better than the Italians towards the end of the match. They are the fittest side in the world cup. They deserved to win. The penalty was a penalty (in fact two fouls were committed at the same time). The difference between the shirt pulling in one instance and the other is determined by who has control of the ball. If neither do then it is a fifty-fifty decision. If the ball is out of play then the referee cannot award a free kick (read your rules) but do several things: talking to the players is one of them. Awarding a caution would not have been appropriate and may exacerbate the situation. The referee is there to protect the players and handles it in their own way. The referees at the world cup are extremely experienced. *



This is true, but you cannot in your right mind not give a yellow card to a deliberate elbowing inside the penalty box.  What exacerbated the situation was not calling the penalty kick.



> *The match was fairly refereed. Italy had their golden goal disallowed which was a bit harsh, but it is difficult even for TV cameras in slow motion to determine exactly whether he was on/off side with the speed of the play. Italy had one really bad decision against them in the whole competition - where the player was given offside even though he was clearly behind the ball. Toti was unlucky maybe to be sent off, though he shouldn't have picked up two cards. Remember, he already had a caution, so why did he go down so easily in the penalty box - he is asking for problems. If you have a caution you play more within the rules. Toti didn't.*



DID YOU SEE THE REPLAY?  Heh, Totti was ACTUALLY taken down by the Korean player.  Saying he was "asking for problems" is ludicrous.  So if you already have a yellow card, you should not go down in the penalty box even if someone hacks you?

And yes, Italy's golden goal being disallowed was harsh, too.  So that's three major questionable calls.  And there were numerous minor calls that were also very questionable.  I hardly call this a fair referee.



> *The quote 'welcome to the world of football' doesn't mean that all referees are corrupt, it simply means that occaisioanally mistakes will be made. However, on average the mistakes will cancel out.*



Unfortunately, there are those times when they don't cancel out, as in this instance.



> *SimX, you have stated before that you know little about football and you are showing your ignorance of the game with these comments. I certainly do not appreciate your racist comments about S. Koreans.
> 
> R. *



I'm sorry, I didn't mean to have my comments come across as racist.  I thought they would seem ridiculous and sarcastic enough that they would not be taken seriously.  Unfortunately, I guess that didn't come across well enough.  I really didn't mean to be racist there.

However, I am not ignorant about the game.  I have never said that I know little about soccer, and I was actually a soccer referee for two years.  I studied the rules and know exactly the function of the referee in the game.  I am just frustrated that the ref of the S. Korea - Italy game basically decided the game because of a couple calls.

If I had been in that situation, I may not have seen what I can see on the TV, and maybe I would have made some of the same calls as this referee.  But if you look at the replays, many of the calls were in the S. Korean's favor when they should not have been.


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## mrfluffy (Jun 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tismey _
> *The Korean guy who scored the golden goal has been sacked from the Italian club he played for. The coach says he won't pay a salary to the man who ruined Italian football!! *


yeah, how much do you think he'll get from the unfair dismissal case?

and it is italy's own fault they lost, if they'd tried to score another they would have and put it out of korea's reach, and they would have if vieri could hit a cow's arse with a banjo


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## uoba (Jun 19, 2002)

more like a double-bass 

As for the Totti foul debate... I was very happy to see him go off, the first thing he did when he went down was to signify to the referee to send the Korean player off... I absolutely deplore this, bye bye Totti you ineffectual premadonna 

And also there is an argument for the offside goal, the goalkeeper clearly heard the whistle and made no attempt to stop the attempt, so, the fact that the Italian player scored into an unguarded net, is neither her nor there, the keeper had stopped playing.

Anyway, bye bye bye Italia, der der de de de de der.


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## Paragon (Jun 19, 2002)

I saw the game too and I found only a couple of times where I thought the referee was a bit biased. I'm not saying it's okay, but I do understand the amount of pressure a referee is under when he's got a game between a home team and an away team. I've even heard a couple of referee's mention this.

They have made a point out of "shirt pulling" in this WC, that when they see this they are to punish it more severely now than before. I know this because one of the guy's on the referee commitee is a Danish referee and they had an interview with him in Danish TV.


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## Captain Code (Jun 19, 2002)

Yeah, I watched the game.  Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I haven't seen it.

Now, the only reason that Italian guy got kicked off was because he was yelling and aguing with the ref.  He had a yellow card at first, and was arguing, so the ref gave him a red card.

It's his own fault for arguing with the ref, even if he felt that the ref was wrong/


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## lonny (Jul 2, 2002)

Ehehe!
A bit late in this discussion...
But to all my english friends:

happy about this WorldCup?
England OUT! (and no english coach)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Italy didn't play the best football ever, but the ref was biased, seen the game Korea Spain? What do you think?

I'm glad the show is over... such a disturbing WorldCup.


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## uoba (Jul 2, 2002)

the poor Italians,  Beaten by South Kor... who? South K..O..R..E..A... really, wow, England went out ot the winners Brazil, and Italy went out to who!!??

Don't even start with the 'we where robbed' story! 

I thought it was a Brasilliant world cup anyway.


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## mrfluffy (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *Don't even start with the 'we where robbed' story! *


yeah, you wouldnt see the english b*tching about maradona in 1986, gazza's booking in 90 (which lost us the game realy), the beckham sending off or hencoz handballing it twice in the FA cup final


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## uoba (Jul 2, 2002)

That was ball to hand!


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## simX (Jul 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Paragon _
> *I saw the game too and I found only a couple of times where I thought the referee was a bit biased. I'm not saying it's okay, but I do understand the amount of pressure a referee is under when he's got a game between a home team and an away team. I've even heard a couple of referee's mention this.*



That's why you get referees that can handle the pressure, and don't bow to the stands that are saturated with tens of thousands of Koreans watching their own team play.

You guys want to know how FIFA chose refs this year?  They tried to be politically correct, and chose one ref from each country playing in the World Cup, and then tried to get as many refs from as many different countries after that.

Excuse me, but f#(@ that s&#@.  Referees need to be chosen based on MERIT, and merit ALONE, not because you have to be politically correct.

Refs like the Ecuadorian ref are NOT refs that are supposed to be reffing the World Cup.  The highest caliber game that this referee reffed was a Chile-Costa Rica game or something in some obscure tournament.  Referees need EXPERIENCE before they go to the World Cup.

The ref of the final, Brazil-Germany, is an example of a good referee.  Yes, he did make a mistake on one of the Brazilian goals by not calling it offsides, but overall, he did a much better job of reffing the game.

In the Italy-Korea game, in contrast, the ref sends Totti off for arguing with the ref, when it was true that Totti was hacked down inside the penalty box.  But the ref decides to get the emotions of the players heightened by giving a red card to Totti, which was totally unfounded.  The ref is there to facilitate the playing of the game, not to make it go slower and have there be more concentration on specific, minor fouls.  Even if Totti WAS faking it, there are many more offenders, one of which is that a** Rivaldo on the Brazilian team.  He goes down every time a player touches him, and yet he didn't get a yellow card.

Hopefully FIFA learns from its mistakes this year.


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## uoba (Jul 3, 2002)

Sour grapes!  Least you ain't got David Seaman in goal!  (He's an Arsenal player so it's all that could've been expected  ) Are ya reading Fluffy?


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## mrfluffy (Jul 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *That was ball to hand!
> *


which one, the first one or the second one?


> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *Sour grapes!  Least you ain't got David Seaman in goal!  (He's an Arsenal player so it's all that could've been expected  ) Are ya reading Fluffy? *


what's that i hear? the cleaner wiping the dust from the anfield trophey closet? or was it old trafford? lol

and simX isnt it just as politically incorrect to pick people because of their nationality as it is to not choose them because of it?


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## uoba (Jul 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mrfluffy _
> *
> which one, the first one or the second one?
> 
> *



... er, both... not his fault Henry can only shoot wide left, wide right, over the bar, and at defenders 


... as for the Old Trafford trophy cabinet, I think we are both "united' on seeing that one empty for a good few years


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## simX (Jul 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mrfluffy _
> *
> which one, the first one or the second one?
> 
> ...



Hrm, mrfluffy, have you ever heard of this thing called "merit"?  Or is it more important and more democratic to have a diverse group of referees than a competent group?


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## uoba (Jul 4, 2002)

he supports Arsenal....

That team is built on a diverse group of individuals rather than a competent group   (Oooh, I'm really going for it now... and I don't mind Arsenal really, honest )


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## lonny (Jul 4, 2002)

No wonder Collina, the ref of Brazil-Germanym, was the best...
he's italian!


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## uoba (Jul 4, 2002)

is definately the best ref in the world... by a couple of miles. He just plain scarey! He's also the first Ref superstar!


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## mrfluffy (Jul 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by simX _
> *
> 
> Hrm, mrfluffy, have you ever heard of this thing called "merit"?  Or is it more important and more democratic to have a diverse group of referees than a competent group? *


i was agreeing with you (although not very clearly), the point i was making is that in trying to be politically correct they were in fact being politically incorrect as they were making the decision on the officials nationality rather than how good they were.


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