# Smiling moneky are nice... but



## evildan (Jun 11, 2002)

Well, most of you who know me from these boards know I have not said anything regarding the board's recent situations. For those of you who don't know me, who I am is not important.

What I am is. I am a member of the maosx.com community. Just like you. Before joining this community I had long since forgotten what it meant to stay up until 2 in the morning just to chat with friends. I had long since seen the kind of online communication found here on these boards. So I am sure you can understand how upset I was about the recent uprising of bickering over the past few weeks. It appeared that things would never be the same. 

Just prior to these events I had began a correspondence with our Admin regarding some ideas that I had with press3.com. I was amazed at how responsive he was to my suggestions. He actually emailed me back. I remember reading the online bio information in which he said "I am approachable" with a bit of doubt in my breath. But I was pleasantly surprised just how interested he was in creating an online community that everyone could be proud of. 

In case we all haven't realized this by now, what we have here is rare and it is delicate. When I think of how long it must have taken to create this sense of community, it amazes me that one week of disruption (albeit a very disruptive week) sends fleeting thoughts through our heads.

History will teach you that great men and women don't run from the things they believe in. And more so than anything else, those posts were the deepest cuts to this community.  And now in the aftermath, we who remain are wondering in bewilderment. Asking ourselves questions like whats next? or how do we recover from this?

Throughout these times I was lucky to actually establish a few memorable correspondences with Admin in which I was invited to become a moderator for the site. I considered myself privileged to be a moderator even though the moderators were also getting a lot of flack for just being in existence. I think in one post we were referred to as Goons and I have to say taking into account a considerable amount of bad names that I have been called, Goons probably was the easiest of all of them to ignore. Albeit a timely insult, I understood where the frustration was coming from on both sides.

Today, or rather yesterday, Admin cleaned the slate. I had never doubted my confidence in Admins abilities to maintain the community. And when I read his moving forward post I was even more impressed with his abilities of decision making.

I live in Madison Wisconsin, which, for those of you who dont know, is the capitol of Wisconsin. There is a real capitol building and everything, and no its not made of cheese... At least I dont think it is... Anyway, a few weeks ago a few friends and I decided to go to a neighbouring street off of the Capitol and eat some lunch at one of the outside cafes. Parking was a bit difficult, so we had to park on the other side of the Capitol and walk around it to get to our destination. Upon the travel to the eatery, we came across two parties of protestors on the Capitol lawn. There where about 75 to 100 people just sitting on the Capitol lawn with signs and everything.

Being new to the area I was amazed... I was in shock. I wont tell you what they were protesting, because thats not the point of the story. My friends asked if we should continue on and find another place to eat since we were so close to the protestors. I said I wanted to stay so we could see the protestors. I received mixed responses from my friends. They asked me why I was interested in seeing 100 people camped out on the Capitol lawn.

I responded by telling them I didnt believe in the protestors cause, it wasnt anything like that. But I was more interested in the demonstration than the demonstrators. Have you ever seen 100 people who have a cause and are willing to stand their ground? Its an amazing thing. It really is. I was overwhelmed with a sense of historic awe. At that moment I realized just how important that right was for all of us. 

Furthermore, I was proud to be able to witness that. I told my friends that they should be appreciating the fact that we live in a world where people can protest on the Capitol laws and not be tossed into jail. But before I could finish my protest decree, the protestors disbanded. I was amazed. Now heres the beautiful part... When the protest was over, it ended peacefully. No tipping over cars, no in-you-face you have to listen, Im right and youre wrong... Just a quite dispersal. That sent a chill down my spine. 

I am reminded of that moment right now. I learned that Protestors are not free from responsibility. That the protestors I saw that day understood that. They understood that the reason they felt so addiment about their feelings is because they truly love their community. And being a part of that community was important to them. So important, in fact, that they honeslty felt they were improving their community by making us all aware of their issue. 

And when all of the 100 people left that lawn, there wasnt a spot of trash, or discarded sign, on any part of that lawn. It was a sign of respect, of mutual respect. No overturned car could have said it better. It was a very powerful statement.

We are all a community on this website, we really are,  nothing has changed. We may have temporarily forgotten what it means to be a community, but I think recent posts show that were all relearning that fact very well. We have to stick together, now more so than ever. And for those of you who left the boards, for those of you who posted negative things on other boards about macosx.com or press3.com... Just remember to pick up your trash from the lawn before you come home.


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## nkuvu (Jun 11, 2002)

That's a very well said piece, evildan.  But there's one thing that I have to point out.

The protesters in your example left no trace behind.  Which you inferred as a mutual respect.  This is not the case here.  The whole issue was initiated due to a lack of respect.  Admin did not respect the members of this site.

If Admin had a problem with Jadey's posts, or sithous' questions, he should address them directly.  He should not merely delete or ban as the case may be.

Right now, I don't know what I can post.  My respect for this site will prevent me from posting idiocy such as every four letter word in the book.  But I no longer trust Admin to respect what I post.  Admin is gone for a week.  Good, everyone needs vacation time now and again.  But what will happen when he comes back?  Will these posts also be deleted?  Will the boards just shut down?

I am a very loyal person.  You want my trust, you've got it.  But when you violate that trust and respect, don't expect me to just come back like a happy puppy.  You'll need to prove to me that you are still worthy of that trust.  In this case, Admin can do so by leaving the posts as is when he comes back.  And dealing with criticizing posts openly instead of sweeping them away.


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## sithious (Jun 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *That's a very well said piece, evildan.  But there's one thing that I have to point out.
> 
> The protesters in your example left no trace behind.  Which you inferred as a mutual respect.  This is not the case here.  The whole issue was initiated due to a lack of respect.  Admin did not respect the members of this site.
> ...



well said, nkuvu. 

i agree completely... i hope the week's leave will do admin some good and he comes back rested and friendly like he used to be ...  mainly i think an apology to jadey is called for ...

this site once was my home away from home ... it'll take a while for the wounds to heal, so i'll be away too ... maybe i can return sometime ...


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## dlookus (Jun 11, 2002)

Now I've stuck up for Admin in the past. I try to be reasonable but, I couldn't stick around when people who had been using this site for ages were getting banned or having their posts erased. That is not wat this site is about. I will admit that many of us take this site for granted. i think we have a right to get mad when things like this happen, but I think that many of us forget that this site is free to the public. It doesn't come out of our tax dollars.

Now, I remember when i first came to the site, Admin was asking for donations. I don't know how much he received if any, but if he did receive donations then I think he has a responsibility to keep this a site for the public and not become a dictator. I'm sure he also realizes that he needs to keep people happy if he wants to keep them around.

I don't think anyone has a problem with rules, but I think Admin was wrong. Everyone has their bad days, and I'm sure it's stressful run this site. It seems that he is trying to make up for it, but it seems like there is still some degree of fingerpointing going on here. We should bury the hatchet. I like this site and I don't want to go anywhere else.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jun 11, 2002)

aah it's freaky seeing my "gone" icon in almost everyone's avatar! 

i like my new one instead 

anyways, i'm giving this site a 2nd chance... but of course i'll be at macfora too! me love 90 smilies!


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## Bluefusion (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm just not sure what I'm going to do, yet. I like MacFora better now, actually... but the community here is much more cohesive. I don't want to leave that. 

Hey, Admin could enable all the features MacFora has, couldn't he? They use the same BBS system! Here's what I'd like: 90 smilies, no post counts, message reply fields at the bottom of thread pages, customized username colors, image sigs, much more in-depth profile info, and some of the other graphical features MF has... what do you guys think? (Not to lower the value of MacOSX, but MacFora really has some niceties as well! )


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## homer (Jun 11, 2002)

Thanks for that, evildan. Well spake.



> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *Right now, I don't know what I can post.  My respect for this site will prevent me from posting idiocy such as every four letter word in the book.  But I no longer trust Admin to respect what I post.  Admin is gone for a week.  Good, everyone needs vacation time now and again.  But what will happen when he comes back?  Will these posts also be deleted?  Will the boards just shut down?
> *



nkuvu, I think Admin's latest actions speak for themselves.  For him to remove all the censorship is to implicitly (or explicitly) admit that it didn't work.  He trusted twyg and the mod team to run things in his absence.  He must surely realize that any further censorship (at least on that order) would truly cause this place to fall apart--and I think he's too smart to let that happen.  I find it highly doubtful that he will begin deleting posts upon his return.  Those are just my thoughts.


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## jmr6809 (Jun 11, 2002)

Well written, indeed.  I have found the furor that has arisen over the freedom of speech on this board very interesting.  I for one would love a forum on which there was no foul language or other such (to me) offensive content.  However, I have participated (mostly as a listener, for I have much to learn here) in the board despite the occasional unneeded crude comments which I have read.  I have done so because I have learned so very much from so many of you.  I value the instruction on OS X usage and development as much as I value the civics lessons such as the one so well taught by "evildan".  Again, thank you.


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## Trip (Jun 11, 2002)

This thread really doesn't serve a purpose on these forums. It's all well and said, but what's past is past. Somebody needs to move this to the wasteland.


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## xoot (Jun 11, 2002)

Some people have recently decided that they will be hopping from message board to message board. I hate hopping from board to board because it is very inconvenient. I'm very frustrated that MacOSX.com has split apart. I don't want to go to some new board, I want to stay home. And, you don't have to move, it is your choice. But since two of your friends are moving, you want to go with them, right? This starts a chain reaction. I want this board to be united again.

I also want to change the logo to "United MacOSX.com."


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## edX (Jun 11, 2002)

Trip - under the terms of the new truce i think threads like this are very important. EVERYTHING needs to be said openly. all sides need to have their voices heard. To remove this thread would be to thrust us back into the darkness again. So it won't be me that ends it.

at the moment we are involved in the healing process. this wound will not mend without exposure to the air.

xoot - home will always be where the heart is. now people are just getting bigger hearts


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## twyg (Jun 13, 2002)

*Applauds*

Very well said evildan.

Trip, I agree, let's let bygones be bygones. 

Let's learn from our mistakes and move forward. We could hold grudges, or we can ignore that it happened, but neither would do any good. 

Ed, I also agree with you on this matter. Wounds need to be healed, and sometimes out in the open is the best way to do it. 

Currently "behind the scenes" the new "mod team" or whatever you would like to call it has been having some pretty in depth discussions on what words (not posts) should, or shouldn't be censored, what should be moved, and left in place. These topics happen "behind the scenes" only to allow us to focus, without being interupted. Once we have formed something that could even be construed as a path towards a final decision, we will more than likely let you know how it's moving.

The cause of many failed relationships can be attributed to communication. How can one being know another if they are blind, deaf and dumb. 

(and have no touch, or smell, 'cause Helen Keller could communicate with out the three... anyway, anyway )

It's natural to be angry, or nervous. It's okay to acknowledge a fault, an error, a mistake. However, what makes those feelings negative or positive is what exactly you do with those feelings. 

evildan's example of the protestors tells us that message, you can be angry and you can do varying degrees to one side or another. You can riot with your anger or, you can show or you can turn your anger into compassion, and gently show someone your hurt.

I'll leave it at that. If you feel wronged, you can either riot or peacfully protest. Some of you have chosen both sides. 

Admin has attempted to remove what people are protesting. 

I've said it before, but like all things that are worth saying, say it twice.

"Let it Go."

Let's get back to being friends, let's not forget what happened, but instead move forward remembering what we've learned.


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## xoot (Jun 13, 2002)

Twyg... you forgot: "Three times pays for all"

Let It Go.


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