# Buying new laptop...Did I make the right choice?



## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

After researching for hours which notebook I should buy, even considering the PowerMac G4s.

I wanted something very light but at the same time powerful with a reasonable price. Prices are in Canadian $.

The Notebook I chose on the PC side was this:

Inspiron 600m (4.7lbs)

-Free shipping
-Free USB Memory Key 128MB Dell USB Memory Key
-Free Ati Radeon 9000 64MB upgrade from 32MB.
-100$ Discount

-Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition - English (built in Windows apps)
-Digital Music Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
-Security Software Dell Security Center by McAfee, 90 Day introductory offer 
-Productivity Software WordPerfect Productivity Pack


-Intel Pentium®M Processor at 1.3GHz
-14.1" XGA Display
-ATI Radeon 9000 64MB Video
-Memory 256MB DDR 266MHz (2 DIMMs)
-Hard Drive 30GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive
-Integrated Modem and NIC Internal 56K Modem and Integrated Network Card
-Optical Devices 24XCD-RW/DVD Combo Roxios Easy CD Creator®
-Wireless Networking Card Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 WLAN (802.11b, 11Mbps) miniPCI Card
-Wireless Personal Networking Card Dell TrueMobile 300 Bluetooth Internal Card
-Cables And Accessories 3ft 3 wire FLAT US Power Cord
-Primary Battery 48 Watt Primary Battery

-Warranty 1-Year Return-to-Depot Service, 24x7 Phone Tech Support, 365 days a year

Cost: 2048$

Review summaries:

Pro: 
-Bang for you buck, got everything.
-Good performance
-Very clear display
-Good design

Con: 
-Flimsy keyboard and fragile display
-No firewire port
-Can get expensive with options? 



On PowerMac side was this one:

PowerMac G4 (4.6lbs)

867MHz PowerPC G4

-200$ Higher education discount

-Mac OS X v10.2 Jaguar (built in Mac apps)

-12.1-inch TFT Display 
-40GB Ultra ATA drive
-Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
-256MB DDR266 (128MB built-in & 128MB SO-DIMM) 
-AirPort Extreme Card
-NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go
32MB DDR video memory
-10/100BASE-T Ethernet
-FireWire 400
-Bluetooth built-in

-90 day "free" support

Cost: 2131$ + shipping = ? 

Review Summaries: 

Pro: 
-Good keyboard
-Nice style

Con: 
-Heats up very quickly.
-Bad LCD, bad image.
-Troublesome to add new memory.
-Low performance.




You really can't say no to dell, with all those discounts and bonus features, reliability, performance, small size and free shipping!

So I chose the dell.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

Yes I can.

Hey Dell! No!

PC vs Mac is a matter of opinion. You made your choice before you even looked at the mac. They run entirely different operating systems. XP Home and OS X.2 is no comparison. At ALL.

BTW, have you looked at the powerbook LCD? It's crystal clear. The same as the dell. And how exactly is it troublesome to add new memory?

EDIT: You mention small size with Dell. Um, ::ha::


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

Well unfortunately, I am not a fanatic of either side, so i have no bias against either computers.

But many ppl here are...

Secondly, I did research on many laptops, and for the budget I had of 2000$, the one that delivered my needs was the dell, and for comparison I added the powermac 12 inch, since it the closest competitor in mac side against this dell model.

I read many reviews from both... As you can see in my comparison, I wrote the good things and bad things about both.

The powermac heats alot, and burns your lap... It has a bad LCD. It's memory expansion slot, 1 of them is already taken, because its build in, and the reviewer said it was a pain in the ass, to add the second one.

I am not proving or disproving anything, but i will give the benefit of the doubt to the reviewer, than asking in a biased forum, what is more preferable to me and my budget. 

I simply posted it, because I wanted to see how far a mac fanatic will go to argue against my choice, which is totally ridiculous, because of the immense amount of features, discounts, performance you getting for cheaper cost with the dell.

As you can see, the dell in the reviews have been summed up to be more reliable than the powermac... So who the hell would pay more for something that is less reliable, oven cooker with a bad image?

I do not care what the other models.... I compared the one that is competitive against the dell mobility laptop, which is the Inspiron 600m, which is about the same weight, yet larget screen laptop.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Well unfortunately, I am not a fanatic of either side, so i have no bias against either computers.
> 
> But many ppl here are...
> ...


I have to ask you. Did the reviews to both laptops pit them against each other? If not, then they're pretty much useless.

Btw, why are you posting this hear besides to pick a fight?


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

i suggest he goes to osnews.com, there are many xp victims over there. a few hours of chattin with them, and it will do him good. its not enough that hes an amature, he hasnt had any bashing lessons from the experts. bad start to pickig a fight


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

I am not picking any fight, is this how people exchange ideas in here? 

If you think my decision going with a dell is a threat, then you need help or some friends.


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

and u need to get layed


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

"and u need to get layed"

It's laid, not layed... From your mispelling, I doubt you have been "layed". As if, this relates to anything with the topic at hand.

Kids these days...


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"and u need to get layed"
> 
> It's laid, not layed... From your mispelling, I doubt you have been "layed". As if, this relates to anything with the topic at hand.
> ...


 Everyone who makes a typo is a virgin? Wow. News to me  

And you never answered, why are you posting this here if you didn't want arguments for apple.


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

ahhahaah
yo dev. im sorry i was born in sweden, and im sorry my primary language is greek 

u know what they call ppl like u in greece? their called MALAKES


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## Arden (Sep 10, 2003)

Devlinite, there also rules on this board against trolling.  On a Mac board, posting in favor of Windows is usually considered trolling.

I for one would like to know what purpose you wanted this computer for; after knowing that, I will debate you on whether your decision was a good one or not.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

I wanted something very light but at the same time powerful with a reasonable price. I want something for school, so it has to be really mobile.

Secondly, I wanted to be wireless for hot spot areas, and have bluetooth to integrate with my Pocket PC and cell. I will also take this laptop for vacations to dump my digital photos and videos. I also want to play games during lan parties or on the net. Watch dvd movies and burn mp3 cds or "lended" software  

So this laptop will always be on my lap and needs a good battery life. The dell has 4 hours, the lowest of all centrino cpu laptops, but it is compensated for having the fastest performance in all the laptops covered by the reviewer and the one of the cheapest.

There was the Gateway and Toshibas, but they ranged in 3000$, which is too high for me.

I dont know how long the powermac lasts, but since it heats up like a pressure cooker. I doubt it's saving much energy. Centrinos dont heat up, and I am comfortable that it wont heat up and burn my pants.

I already know what purprose I will use this laptop. Powermacs do not deliver, or are short in delivering it.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *I wanted something very light but at the same time powerful with a reasonable price. I want something for school, so it has to be really mobile.
> 
> Secondly, I wanted to be wireless for hot spot areas, and have bluetooth to integrate with my Pocket PC and cell. I will also take this laptop for vacations to dump my digital photos and videos. I also want to play games during lan parties or on the net. Watch dvd movies and burn mp3 cds or "lended" software
> ...


It's powerbook, not powermac. If you don't want the heat, get an iBook. The heat comes from the aluminum, not from the chip. And Centrino is a technology, not a chip as you infer. It's a Pentium M, and integrated wireless. The Powerbook and the ibook last 5-6 hours without wireless, and 3-4 with. Windows' adoption to wireless is a pain (I had to set up my sister's laptop, I know).

Plus, as for the video and photos, Mac OS X kicks XP's butt all over the place.


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

theyre called powerBOOKS ...

and all those things u listed. a powerbook can handle them pretty easily. and guess what. u dont need to pay any extra cash for new software.the iApps included are better than any loser app on that XP home edition thingy.!!!


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

"If you don't want the heat, get an iBook." 

I am sorry but I already said the closest thing available at apple store that is close to Dell inspiron 600m is the Powerbook 12inch combo drive. The Ibook is too slow for me, a G3? Oh please.

"The heat comes from the aluminum, not from the chip."

I thought Apple had superior design? They should have known about that when they built it. And I still think it's the cpu.


"And Centrino is a technology, not a chip as you infer." No one is arguing against that, simply said Centrinos dont heat up.

"The Powerbook and the ibook last 5-6 hours without wireless, and 3-4 with."

 Both same amount of time yet different processors? That is hard to believe.

"Windows' adoption to wireless is a pain (I had to set up my sister's laptop, I know). "

How so? I put my cisco pcmcia in my old dell laptop and I got internet connection. I have had no problems with wireless connectivity in my home or with my laptops.


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



its called: USING DIFFERENT TYPES OF BATTERIES.

a powerbook being obviously more expensive (but generating more heat) comes with a better battery, thus they get the same operation time

and anyways. it isnt only the battery but the way the whole system is configured. im sure u wouldnt understand!!!u have trendy step up technology which is far more superior


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## sailgreg (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"If you don't want the heat, get an iBook."
> 
> I am sorry but I already said the closest thing available at apple store that is close to Dell inspiron 600m is the Powerbook 12inch combo drive. The Ibook is too slow for me, a G3? Oh please.
> ...



iBooks are not that slow, or I wouldn't have gotten one.

Did you ever pass a science class or are you still in elementary school? Aluminum (or any metals) transfer heat more then plastic, so they feel hotter although the core temperature is probably close to the same.

G3's are cooler then G4's though, and they use less power, which is why they are used on laptops still.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

It is superior... That is why I bought than an old outdated G4 from motorola, or even worse a G3, in which the latest calculators are probably faster than that.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"If you don't want the heat, get an iBook."
> 
> I am sorry but I already said the closest thing available at apple store that is close to Dell inspiron 600m is the Powerbook 12inch combo drive. The Ibook is too slow for me, a G3? Oh please.
> ...


 Spoken like a true newbie. Your cluelessness impresses me.

G3 is basically the same speed as a G4, just without altivec (which by the listing of what you use, you wouldn't use anyway). They use up *basically* the same amount of power, and give off the same amount of heat.

Apple does have superior design. If you've used them, you'd know that, and you'd know it only gets really hot when it's being powered. If you want to keep it cooler, underclock it. You don't need much power.

You referred to Centrino as a CPU.

As for wireless setup, I want to be notified of new signals, and if possible, I want to directly connect to them. If I didn't want that, I'd want to turn it off (which took 10 minutes to find out how to do in XP).


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

"Did you ever pass a science class or are you still in elementary school? Aluminum (or any metals) transfer heat more then plastic, so they feel hotter although the core temperature is probably close to the same."

You can ask that question to Apple, not me.

Secondly, plastic or no plastic. I will not pay for an outdated G3 processor while I can get top of the line, latest technological advanced pc laptop for the same price and not to mention with more features, faster performance, less heat, bigger screen, better image, free shipping.... I can go on and on.

Oh did i mention, I can play the latest games on my laptop?


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## Arden (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *I wanted something very light but at the same time powerful with a reasonable price. I want something for school, so it has to be really mobile.*


 Hence, the purpose of the iBook.


> *Secondly, I wanted to be wireless for hot spot areas, and have bluetooth to integrate with my Pocket PC and cell. I will also take this laptop for vacations to dump my digital photos and videos. I also want to play games during lan parties or on the net. Watch dvd movies and burn mp3 cds or "lended" software  *


 The 12" and 17" Powerbooks have Bluetooth built-in, and all Macs have Firewire and iMovie for video editing, plus combo- or Superdrives for burning DVD's and CD's (talk about pirating software and your posts will be edited).

Games are a different issue because game makers are often stingy about making games hybrid or porting them.  If you want to play the latest, greatest game right now, or you're a big Counterstrike fan, then a PC would suit you better; if you like playing quality titles like Q3A, UT (any), or WC3, then a Mac would suit you quite well.


> *So this laptop will always be on my lap and needs a good battery life. The dell has 4 hours, the lowest of all centrino cpu laptops, but it is compensated for having the fastest performance in all the laptops covered by the reviewer and the one of the cheapest.*


 This has been covered well enough...


> *There was the Gateway and Toshibas, but they ranged in 3000$, which is too high for me.*


 So what, then, $999 for a low-end iBook or $1599 for a low-end Powerbook is too much for you too?


> *I dont know how long the powermac lasts, but since it heats up like a pressure cooker. I doubt it's saving much energy. Centrinos dont heat up, and I am comfortable that it wont heat up and burn my pants.*


 I bet you wear a skirt.  Okay, I'm sorry, this isn't the place for *petty, stupid personal attacks*.

Call it a Powerbook.  Then people won't get mad at you, and you'll look like you know what you're talking about.

If it's really an issue, put a shirt over your lap before you use a Powerbook.  But if you're worried about one computer over another simply because of how hot it gets, you don't have your priorities straight.


> *I already know what purprose I will use this laptop. Powermacs do not deliver, or are short in delivering it. *


 You're right, a Powermac would be tough to lug around all the time, plus you'd have to carry around the monitor, and you'd need somewhere to plug it in.  As for the Books, prove it.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"Did you ever pass a science class or are you still in elementary school? Aluminum (or any metals) transfer heat more then plastic, so they feel hotter although the core temperature is probably close to the same."
> 
> You can ask that question to Apple, not me.
> ...


Good for you. That 14" screen must be awesome to play games with.

Anyway, the g3 is old, but hardly outdated. It has a lot of life left in it, a LOT more than the P4 (which is nearing it's last legs). The 900 mhz were released, what, 2 months ago? Hardly old.

Same price eh? So you got your fragile little notebook for $999? Interesting.

And you can go on and on? Then why don't you?

Oh, did I mention, I can use the worlds most advanced operating system on my laptop?


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

Ibook 

-No bluetooth
-Slower processor than Dells
-Slower video card than Dells
-Smaller screen than dells
-No free shipping
-No 128mb free memory key
-No ethernet jack (doesnt say in apple site)
-Can't play latest released game, or even to slow to play latest games. (Big risk)
-No Firewire? (doesnt say in apple side)

Cost: 1,970.00 + shipping? = same price as dells or even more.

Are you nuts? You actually going to stand there and tell me you rather chose the ibook, if you had a choice between the two with the needs I want?


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## tsizKEIK (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Ibook
> 
> --Can't play latest released game, or even to slow to play latest games. (Big risk)
> *



u forgot to mention Solitaire. sure u can get solitaire free apps from versiontracker for macs but THEYRE NOTHIN LIKE THE GOOD OLD FASHIONED SOLITAIRE IN POWER-WINDOWS-WHAT-A-LOVELY-OS-IT-IS


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## sailgreg (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"Did you ever pass a science class or are you still in elementary school? Aluminum (or any metals) transfer heat more then plastic, so they feel hotter although the core temperature is probably close to the same."
> 
> You can ask that question to Apple, not me.
> ...



Most of the time, the 12'' PB isn't hot at all, it is only when you are using 100% CPU for long periods of time, or constantly accessing the disk that it heats up.

LOL, since when is anything on a PC the latest?

PC Laptops can get just as hot.

If you want a bigger screen, get a 14'' iBook, or 15'' Powerbook.

Apple offers free shipping on orders over $100, or you could buy it at a local retailer.

I can assure you that a dell does NOT have betting screen quality then a powerbook.

Dell sucks, if you want a PC at least get a better brand

I bet my *slow* G3 can do many things faster then your crappy dell anyday, while providing me with better battery life.


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## MikeXpop (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Ibook
> 
> -No bluetooth - wrong.
> ...



Yes, I would.

For one thing, sure you can multitask on Windows without problems. So can I. But no amount of skill will make multitasking with Windows as easy as multitasking with a macintosh. Every application talks to each other. I can be sending information to app's without even switching to them in focus, and without skipping a beat. Plus, I find that I work better on a mac, because of the fact that it's fun. Now I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but certianly is for me. The problem is that Windows is just a tool. The one thing about OS X that people don't understand, and can't understand till they start working with the thing for more than 10 minutes, is that OS X is a JOY to use. It makes everything fun. And because of that, it lets you learn more and more and more about computers. Networking, command lines, running servers, programming. Ripping CD's, burning CD's, editing movies, burning DVD's. It doesn't make things simple; it makes them coherent. That's the difference between the User Friendliness of XP and OS. Doing things in XP is difficult, but XP holds your hand and walks you through everything. OS X just makes it easier.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

Dood, I am not a mom with bad eye sight that has no knowledge of computers. I build computers as a hobby...

Trust me, OSX personally, testing it many times at my friends or even at the stores. It pretty slow  if I want to do the same task on windows. But this is once again, PREFRENCE AND OPINION.

While the hardware in dell is simply fact... It's faster and better. I could care less if there is linux installed on the laptop. I am not paying it for the software, i am paying for the hardware.

You think I am going to keep home edition xp with mcafee viruscan? Wtf do i care about that? Nor do I CARE for iapps, or dvd editors. I never want to edit a dvd nor do I want to make music CDs (exempting mp3s)

Sure i will burn borrowed apps and games, which probably are all incompatible with OSX since they made for PC.

While I have to go buy a OSX app from a store. Me, a guy who never bought a software in his life. No thanks. Even OS difference debate, windows wins, not targetting the OS itself, because Windows is simply supported more. I can get any app or game and it will be compatible with windows, plus i can "burrow" them for free at any irc channel.

Just like that... So if you want to talk about easy and cost. PC wins in the end, in my way of doings things on the computer.

Last but not the least, I already stated what I wanted with my laptop.

We jumped from powerbook, to ibook, which is less performing and more restricted in features.

How is Ibook better for me now than it was with powerbook? You guys really have no intention to actually confess a little that my needs are not your needs. Therefore, Dell is preferable for my own sake? 

Not only that, but it's a good bargain for it's cost. Or I would have just stayed with my old dell laptop.


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## sailgreg (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Dood, I am not a mom with bad eye sight that has no knowledge of computers. I build computers as a hobby...
> 
> Trust me, OSX personally, testing it many times at my friends or even at the stores. It pretty slow  if I want to do the same task on windows. But this is once again, PREFRENCE AND OPINION.
> ...



If you really build PCs (I used to before I switched) you would know that dells hardware is pretty crappy compared to what else you can get.

Jaguar was a little slow for some things, but panther fixes all this plus more.

And if you really want to warez software for OS X, it is damn easy to, just don't brag about it here 

If you like PCs admit it, and leave this site


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

Crappy in what way, they pretty sturdy and well made. My  old laptop probably has more than 50 little screws to get in the motherboard. (Did open, just to sake of seeing whats in it)

Secondly, all its hardware is branded and used in all other laptops.

Such as the hard drive, sony, toshiba, fujistu.

Video card, ati nvidia intel

network intel, dell

LCD displays toshiba, dunno about other brands.

Motherboards intel

Btw my old 15 inch laptop does 1600rez, 32bit, 85hz. No Apple laptop can do that.

So dont say dell hardware is crappy. I think it depends which Dell model you buy, just like which apple computer/laptop you buy.

Some designs are crappy, like my old one, all the hardware is cornered on one side, which would generate alot of heat, and is pretty heavy. 

So this time I am a real mobile one, and inspiron 600m, has been acclaimed for good design and very little heat generated. So i am happy.

Isn't my happiness worth something???

I do like PCs, but I never said I am biased towards pcs. I simply think Macs cost too much for something that can be done at pc level for much less. I don't care how its done, but both can do the same thing. One is simply more expensive...

Also, PM about these OSX lended software sites


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## Arden (Sep 10, 2003)

When you say your laptop has a faster processor... do you mean it has more Mhz?


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## Giaguara (Sep 10, 2003)

Do not feed the trolls.

gia.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

No I actually mean it has a faster processor. 

Please don't tell me what you going to say.

G3s are faster than the new P4 M.

Btw, I am an AMD fan not intel. But since AMD has not released a good substitute cpu for mobiles that generates little heat and doesnt take much power, I have no choice to go with the M. Nevertheless, the M is faster than the old P4 core. So I have no grudges, but don't imply that the G3 900mhz is faster than a new p4 M 1.3 ghz. I won't even reply anymore, if you say that.


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## sailgreg (Sep 10, 2003)

Back to the original question, I think you made the WRONG choice, if you don't like our answers, DONT ASK ON A MAC FORUM.


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2003)

G3's are not faster then any P4 M's unfortunately... although IBM is/has been rumoured to be producing a G3 with altivec enhancements, so it will help. also the g3's speeds are held back by the PR dept and the g4 needing to be the faster processor unfortunately....

i will say though, that a g3 900mhz and a p4 m 1.4 are pretty close in speed, they handle data a little differently to where in actuality you would be comparing two chips of the same make at maybe 1.2 vs 1.4, so its not a HUGE difference...

I personally have been very very pleased with my ibook, although i use my g4 for heavy duty tasks ... but the ibook is perfect for me (maybe not for you, which is cool) because all i need is a light, efficient, decent performing, portable and fairly cool lap top


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sailgreg _
> *Back to the original question, I think you made the WRONG choice, if you don't like our answers, DONT ASK ON A MAC FORUM. *



although i don't like some of his... trolling... he does, however, have every right to post wherever he wants.... he just needs to use a bit more tact in posting his opinions, thats all


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## mkwan (Sep 10, 2003)

different strokes for different folks

you know people, let's not waste our time debating macs and pcs with Devlinite.  It seems he made a choice before he first posted.  I personally would choose a mac because of their OS X.  Nothing is compared to OS X. (Oh! and the G5 is an awesome  personal supercomputer)

I like how the OS was developed, almost all of the components are free and within industry standards(opengl, Java, Darwin, apache,...)


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

Well I just checked with Purolator, my shipment finally left customs, so it should be here tomorrow, or friday at the least.

Well i'll stay with pcs for laptops, and maybe in the near future, if Apple ever ports the G5 to an IMAC, you will see me more frequently on these boards  

Us canadians, have to pay double for anything you americans get. So getting an apple is quite demotivating for its cost. So if I am going to pay alot, I expect more than a G3 or a G4. i need an Ibm G5, so it lasts me long enough.

Btw, anyone notice Apple hasn't made a PocketMac Handheld device?

Also, what is the devaluation ratio of apple computers?


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2003)

ah, you edited, i was just about to point out that the g3 is indeed an ibm


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## sailgreg (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Well I just checked with Purolator, my shipment finally left customs, so it should be here tomorrow, or friday at the least.
> 
> Well i'll stay with pcs for laptops, and maybe in the near future, if Apple ever ports the G5 to an IMAC, you will see me more frequently on these boards
> ...



Apple used to have a handheld, the Newton, it was sweet


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)




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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

"Apple used to have a handheld, the Newton, it was sweet "

Dare I ask what happened to it?


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## Arden (Sep 10, 2003)

Apple started the trend with handhelds.  Remember the Newton?  It wasn't the first, but they still made it, like 10 years ago.

By "devaluation" do you mean depreciation?  I'd say Macs have very good depreciation... they retain their value much longer than PC's.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

How much, let's say I buy a Imac 1ghz, how much percentage wise would the price drop if I sell it a year after?


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2003)

www.ebay.com will give you an idea on one year old macs... their resale value holds extremely well compared to pc's mostly because you can't really build a mac for cheap, instead you have to buy second hand.


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## RacerX (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *"Apple used to have a handheld, the Newton, it was sweet "
> 
> Dare I ask what happened to it? *



The Newton was the first handheld. Apple was actually trying for the _full_ computer experience with a handheld, but with the technology of the time it turned out a little large. Palm came out with a smaller (limited in function) handheld and jumped a head of Apple in market share. 

The Newton OS was actually a wonderful OS and Apple did make a wonderful mini-laptop called the eMate for a while that used it. 

When Jobs returned to Apple, he felt that Apple was spread to thin with all their projects and started making cuts, the Newton was one of the first.

Strangely enough, their are still a lot of Newton users out there (including me). My Newton can still do more than my wife's Palm even given how old it is.

Back to the topic at hand, how was the original question in any way related to the area it was posted in? This is *Apple General Discussion* right? It isn't *Dell General Discussion*.

Also on the heat issue, to date the only reports I've heard of where someone was physically injured by a laptop due to heat was with a Dell.

Just FYI.


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## legacyb4 (Sep 10, 2003)

Well, whatever you chose, that's cool.

However, please do assume the burden and responsibility of making sure that the oh-so-awesome XP operating system is up to date to avoid ever increasing security holes being found...

Cheers.


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## Devlinite (Sep 10, 2003)

There is a feature in XP called Automatic update... People should actually use that more often!


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## Jason (Sep 11, 2003)

i never used automatic update, found it to intrusive.... but i never had any probs with xp, because i did check for updates every now and then... it doesnt take more than 30 secs, and possibly a reboot...

i think people jump on MS a little too fast when it comes to these security holes etc... i have a feeling a few would be exploited on osx or any other OS if there were as many people looking for them (at the same time xp, makes it a bit easier with some of its default services running)

oh well, if ya got an educated user, you really cant go wrong, thats why its all just going to get better and better i say


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## legacyb4 (Sep 11, 2003)

Yup, and when you are running a Windows network with domain users set to Power Users or less, at the end of the day it's me who still has to make sure that every blood PC is properly patched.

Forget about expecting that users (especially in an office) will take the time nor care to maintain their own workstations...

By the way, is there any reason you are on this board other than to stir up feelings of negativity? If you have that much time on your hands, take it over to ZDNet where the Windoze and Linux folks take it out on each other...


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## Jason (Sep 11, 2003)

MS should implement a feature for an administrator to automatically install updates across a network whenever they feel needed... it would make things much easier (i worked in a couple labs as a tech for a while as well)


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## Arden (Sep 11, 2003)

Okay, enough, he's gotten the idea (I think).

I'd say, a year from now, you could sell a currently new 1 Ghz iMac for oh, $800-1000, so about 25-40% depreciation.


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## RacerX (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *There is a feature in XP called Automatic update... People should actually use that more often!  *



There is a feature in XP where a number of ports are left completely open... Microsoft should have actually never used that feature! 

Actually that is the primary problem with Windows. Microsoft ships Windows with a ton of features that the average user doesn't need enabled by default. The people (a small minority of Windows users) that these features are aimed at would know enough to enable them as they needed them. By contrast, the vast majority of users who have no need for these features are completely clueless as to how to turn these extras off.

Use Windows if you want, but be aware of  the price of using _any_ Microsoft product.

Some interesting reading:

Microsoft Office 
Microsoft Windows

Best of luck with your PC.


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## Giaguara (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Devlinite _
> *Us canadians, have to pay double for anything you americans get. So getting an apple is quite demotivating for its cost. So if I am going to pay alot, I expect more than a G3 or a G4. i need an Ibm G5, so it lasts me long enough. *



It's not a double price. Think about Europeans. They still pay a lot more. And I got my Mac in Europe. (=a lot more).

Apples hold their value better. You get far better price for an old mac than for an old peecee. And the Apples work longer, still many people use computers that can run only classic - as they can do all they need with them, and don't need or just have money or willingness to update to X. 

Now good night.


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## Cat (Sep 11, 2003)

Do you recall how he argued that a wintel XP is actually cheaper than a Mac because of Warez? Funny, I use free software all day, it's called OpenSource: not something a window$ luser would have heard about clearly...


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## hulkaros (Sep 11, 2003)

Dear Devlinite,

These forums actually called www.macosx.com and if you cannot understand what their audience is by it's name let me tell you:

*Apple and their products*

For any reasons, logical, ethical, scientific, etc. or NOT you seem to like and actually enjoy your Wintel/Amd world and that's GOOD for you...

If you like to share YOUR fun with us, by now, you already did that in abundant ways! I would like to inform you that with the things you post here you remind the majority of people here what life forms they should avoid in any way possible! The life forms you seem to come from are the following...

Devlinite Evolution
------------------------
Stage 1:
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/peon.shtml

Stage 2:
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/trollheadhunter.shtml

Stage 3:
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/trollberserker.shtml

The worst part is that you actually seem to enjoy your Evolution and you are going all the way in order to become this:
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/shadowhunter.shtml

You! You! You are one a heck of a TROLL!!!

Enjoy, your logical, mature, scientific, democratic, etc. visit here!

After all, TROLLS too, deserve a fair treatment in www.macosx.com and not only Apple customers...


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## edX (Sep 11, 2003)

ok, move along. nothing more to see here. devlinite is manicdevlin and is already on the banned list. thus he is also banned under this username as well. don't expect anymore replies from him here or anywhere else. if you get one as another username, please report it. 

btw - this guy has never been able to back anything up with facts, just quotes from other dell cheerleaders like himself.


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## powermac (Sep 11, 2003)

Do us a favor, buy your Dell laptop and leave the message board!


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