# 10.5.2



## Satcomer (Feb 11, 2008)

Well 10.5.2 is released!!!

You should use the 10.5.2 combo  instead of using Software Update!


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## Giaguara (Feb 11, 2008)

Finally 
343 MB?! I guess it eliminates the possibility that someone installs by mistake the update for the wrong architecture, but it's a bit ... big to download with anything less than broadband.


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## bbloke (Feb 11, 2008)

Oooh, I shall have a look!

I wonder if it will finally fix the problem where the first character is often skipped when typing on MacBook Pros...


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## Satcomer (Feb 11, 2008)

Just updated with the Combo on both Machines. On the PPC G5 it had a double restart so be patient when letting the Combo boot up.

Everything seems good so far. Here is everything 10.5.2 updated. Here is the long list!



> Active Directory
> Addresses issues which could hinder or prevent binding Mac OS X 10.5.x clients to Active Directory domains.
> AirPort
> Improves connection reliability and stability
> ...


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## Satcomer (Feb 11, 2008)

There is a Graphic Software update after you install 10.5.2 so check Software Update.


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## bbloke (Feb 11, 2008)

As many people may already know, one feature that 10.5.2 brings is the ability to view Stacks as a "List" (hierarchical menus).  One related feature I noticed is that icons for individual Stacks can now be viewed either as a "Stack" (i.e. an overlap of icons of files contained within that folder) or a "Folder" (i.e. where only the icon of the parent folder, such as the Downloads folder, is used).  Personally, I'm not that bothered about hierarchical menus, but I really do like the ability to change the icon in the Dock on an individual basis.

There is also an option to switch on/off the "Translucent Menu Bar" in the "Desktop and Screen Saver" System Preferences pane.  Many people will be glad of that too.

Time Machine now has its own status icon in the menu bar, which is mildly animated when Time Machine is busy backing up...

It will take me some time to determine whether or not the keyboard issue for MacBook Pros has been sorted out.  I'll keep my fingers crossed but had heard it might not be sorted out with this release.  Additionally, I'm hoping there will be a CS3 update shortly so that Acrobat will work under Leopard now...  Adobe had originally referred to updates coming out in late 2007 and January 2008, if I remember rightly.


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## bbloke (Feb 11, 2008)

Graphically, animations seem a bit smoother.  The background for Stacks views seem different somehow (darker and with a border?).  Spaces seems noticeably smoother for me, and animations for Stacks and minimization seem to be improved too; movies still do not play in the Dock, though.

Menus now seem much less translucent, to the point where I thought they are now opaque.  To be honest, I actually quite liked the level of menu transparency in Leopard prior to 10.5.2!  It seemed about the right balance for me.


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## Mikuro (Feb 11, 2008)

bbloke said:


> Menus now seem much less translucent, to the point where I thought they are now opaque.  To be honest, I actually quite liked the level of menu transparency in Leopard prior to 10.5.2!  It seemed about the right balance for me.



I saw that in their list of changes, so I took a screenshot before I applied the update and another after. They're identical. Is there only a difference on Core Image-capable machines? That seems unlikely since menu transparency has never used Core Image. 

The new options for stacks are very welcome. Now you can get it to work exactly like in Tiger, and you can choose on an item-by-item basis, so you can have some folders open as stacks and some open as menus. That's the way it should be.


I haven't noticed any difference besides the stacks change and the new Time Machine menu extra (also nice). Spaces might be a bit more responsive, but if you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have thought anything of it.


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## bbloke (Feb 11, 2008)

Mikuro said:


> I saw that in their list of changes, so I took a screenshot before I applied the update and another after. They're identical. Is there only a difference on Core Image-capable machines? That seems unlikely since menu transparency has never used Core Image.


I don't know what to make of this.  You've thought ahead and been more thorough about the comparison, so I'm open to being wrong about this.  That said, it was something that I wasn't looking out for, I simply played with the update and instantly thought the transparency had changed.  When using a few menus, the "blurry" feel to them seemed to have gone in favor of a much lesser level of transparency.  That was my instant reaction, at least!  My experience of 10.5.2 is with a MacBook Pro (NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics card), I don't know if experiences will vary according to hardware.



Mikuro said:


> The new options for stacks are very welcome.


I agree.  While some additions are useful for me, and others not, it's having the choice which is important to many.




Mikuro said:


> I haven't noticed any difference besides the stacks change and the new Time Machine menu extra (also nice). Spaces might be a bit more responsive, but if you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have thought anything of it.


I'm picking up on a number of small differences here and there.  For me, small tweaks to software (in general, not just with Leopard) can add up to affect the overall feel, even though they don't sound significant in themselves.  The performance improvements may come from the Leopard Graphics Update, rather than 10.5.2 itself.

For me, the smoothness of Spaces was very noticeable.  Thinking about it, I should clarify: the difference in performance relates to zooming out to view all Spaces at once, not simply moving between individual Spaces with keystrokes.  Again, this might be down to differences in hardware, but I use Spaces a lot and had always felt the animation juddered but now it seems very smooth.


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## bbloke (Feb 11, 2008)

I've noticed, belatedly, that Adobe released Acrobat Professional 8.1.2 around a week ago, and this is supposed to improve Leopard compatibility.  I had not been able to install Acrobat Professional (as part of CS3) at all under Leopard, so Adobe's automatic software updater obviously was not going to check for updates to this!  I'll try reinstalling Acrobat Professional under 10.5.2 and see if I can run the 8.1.2 updater...


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## RGrphc2 (Feb 11, 2008)

Anyone else having a problem running CS3 with Linotype running?  Also my Dock "crashes" when i try any other view other than List View.  

Ran the Combo updater twice.


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## CaribbeanOS-X (Feb 11, 2008)

bbloke said:


> Oooh, I shall have a look!
> 
> I wonder if it will finally fix the problem where the first character is often skipped when typing on MacBook Pros...



*bbloke*: i think i had a similar issue.  as i rapidly flip from program to program and arrive at a input field... i quickly enter, say my email... and when i look up the first letter is missing.  I type as one should and not look at the keyboard...not peck and hunt!  

Is that what your MB PRO is doing?  I have a MacBook, 10.4.11, 2 gig RAM etc... the thing preforms like a thoroughbred 99% of the time.  However, I built a clean install a few weeks ago and the issue is gone! 

Let me know... i want to keep tabs on that little issue... it drove me crazy.

best,

CaribbeanOS-X


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## jbarley (Feb 12, 2008)

CaribbeanOS-X said:


> *bbloke*: i think i had a similar issue.  as i rapidly flip from program to program and arrive at a input field... i quickly enter, say my email... and when *i look up* the first letter is missing.  I type as one should and *not look at the keyboard*...not peck and hunt!
> CaribbeanOS-X


Help me understand this better,
If you type *without looking at the keyboard*, then what is is that you are l*ooking up from*?

jb.


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## Satcomer (Feb 12, 2008)

Well it looks like some people are confused at the size of the delta update. We;; after thinking and talking with friends I have come to a conclusion. If you did an original update to 10.5.0 from Tiger you were given the 'Combo' 10.5.2 (384 MB). If you did a fresh install Apple gave you just the Delta 10.5.2 update (184MB).

Either that or some of the many servers were just giving out the Combo update by mistake, or maybe it was by design in some countries. I just guessing.


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## alra111 (Feb 12, 2008)

Satcomer said:


> There is a Graphic Software update after you install 10.5.2 so check Software Update.



Any idea what that is all about?  I of course went and installed it, but I'm curious anyhow.

I didn't notice iTunes mentioned specifically, but I hope they fix its constant freeze-ups soon.  I will probably go and import a CD at some point today to see if there's any improvements in that area.

Alra111


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## CaribbeanOS-X (Feb 12, 2008)

jbarley said:


> Help me understand this better,
> If you type *without looking at the keyboard*, then what is is that you are l*ooking up from*?
> 
> jb.



Nevertheless, keep up the good work!


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## Mikuro (Feb 12, 2008)

bbloke said:


> I don't know what to make of this.  You've thought ahead and been more thorough about the comparison, so I'm open to being wrong about this.  That said, it was something that I wasn't looking out for, I simply played with the update and instantly thought the transparency had changed.  When using a few menus, the "blurry" feel to them seemed to have gone in favor of a much lesser level of transparency.  That was my instant reaction, at least!  My experience of 10.5.2 is with a MacBook Pro (NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics card), I don't know if experiences will vary according to hardware.



I don't think you're wrong about the menus, seeing as you noticed it on your own and Apple says there is a difference. I just wonder why I'm not getting it. I get the same result now after I installed the graphics update, too. *shrug*

Speaking of which, does anyone have any details about what this graphics update actually _does_? Apple's description is very vague.



> For me, the smoothness of Spaces was very noticeable.  Thinking about it, I should clarify: the difference in performance relates to zooming out to view all Spaces at once, not simply moving between individual Spaces with keystrokes.  Again, this might be down to differences in hardware, but I use Spaces a lot and had always felt the animation juddered but now it seems very smooth.



Yeah, I notice an improvement there, too. I don't use that mode very often, though, so I can't say for sure what kind of difference there was, but I remember it being choppy and now it's fairly smooth. I ALSO notice a difference in keyboard-controlled switching, which I use much more. It seems smoother than it used to be, too.


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## bbloke (Feb 12, 2008)

CaribbeanOS-X said:


> *bbloke*: i think i had a similar issue.  as i rapidly flip from program to program and arrive at a input field... i quickly enter, say my email... and when i look up the first letter is missing.
> 
> ...
> 
> Is that what your MB PRO is doing?  I have a MacBook, 10.4.11, 2 gig RAM etc... the thing preforms like a thoroughbred 99% of the time.  However, I built a clean install a few weeks ago and the issue is gone!


Hi  CaribbeanOS-X,

Your experience sounds similar to what I have encountered.  I bought a MacBook Pro over the summer (running Tiger) and noticed that the first letter would be missing occasionally, right after I started typing.  This might be particularly the case when typing in a field when browsing the web, and that sort of thing.  I put it down to not having adjusted to a laptop keyboard yet!

I upgraded to Leopard some weeks after it was released and, by that time, I was more convinced it was not the case that I was unfamiliar with the keyboard.  The same phenomenon occurred under Leopard.  I started looking around on forums, particularly Apple's own discussion pages, and found this is a widespread issue that has been driving people crazy!

The first letter tends to only not appear if they keyboard has been inactive for some time.  It doesn't seem to miss random letters or freeze up, and the trackpad is fine.  Once I've started typing and don't stop for long periods, the letters seem to show up appropriately.  I started to think it is almost as if the keyboard goes to sleep when not used for a bit, and the first key press wakes it!  Someone else made a similar comment concerning the USB bus going to sleep, and how it could be overly-aggressive power management.  While some had said the problem occurs when using Windows via Boot Camp, more had said that it didn't occur within Windows, so that gave me more hope that it is software-related.

Fingers crossed...


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## bbloke (Feb 12, 2008)

alra111 said:


> I didn't notice iTunes mentioned specifically, but I hope they fix its constant freeze-ups soon.  I will probably go and import a CD at some point today to see if there's any improvements in that area.


I would expect this would be a separate iTunes update, if there was a known issue.  I have to say that I haven't been experiencing these problems with iTunes, though.  MacFixit has an article about iTunes freezing up, though, so you might want to look at that.  They direct readers to Apple's Knowledge Base article on the subject.  Good luck!


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## Satcomer (Feb 12, 2008)

RGrphc2 said:


> Anyone else having a problem running CS3 with Linotype running?  Also my Dock "crashes" when i try any other view other than List View.
> 
> Ran the Combo updater twice.



Well Linotype FontExplorer X - 1.2.3 was updated after 10.5.2. Did it help?


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## sgould (Feb 12, 2008)

Satcomer said:


> Well it looks like some people are confused at the size of the delta update. We;; after thinking and talking with friends I have come to a conclusion. If you did an original update to 10.5.0 from Tiger you were given the 'Combo' 10.5.2 (384 MB). If you did a fresh install Apple gave you just the Delta 10.5.2 update (184MB).
> 
> Either that or some of the many servers were just giving out the Combo update by mistake, or maybe it was by design in some countries. I just guessing.



I'm in UK and saw the original post quoting the Combo as 343MB.  I checked the Software update and was offered a 341MB update.  So I installed the Combo!!

This install is on a new black MacBook that I've had for three weeks.  It came with 10.5.0 installed, which I upgraded to 10.5.1 before I started using it.  So this machine has never seen Tiger.


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## RGrphc2 (Feb 12, 2008)

yep


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## Satcomer (Feb 12, 2008)

RGrphc2 said:


> yep



Well thinking about your Dock, have you tried to through out the Dock preferences to fix it?


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## RGrphc2 (Feb 12, 2008)

They yep was to the upgrade to Linotype 1.2.3 it fixed the problem.  A few people on creativebits, apple, and linotype disscussion boards had the same exact thing running Linotype.  

I stopped running FontExplorer and it worked fine  Really amazing those developers at Linotype, not even a day and they fixed the problem.


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## sjb2016 (Feb 13, 2008)

The update has been great for me as my biggest problem is resolved.  The update fixed an issue with gizmocall (the flash plugin used from a browser rather than the standalone application) which is flash based.  The flash plugin couldn't see any input or output devices.  Now it sees both the built in inputs and outputs as well as my USB phone.


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## fryke (Feb 13, 2008)

The update's welcome. Finally a real menu-bar again without 3rd party tools or hack-desktop pictures.


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## Satcomer (Feb 13, 2008)

fryke said:


> The update's welcome. Finally a real menu-bar again without 3rd party tools or hack-desktop pictures.



I found that i had the same feelings once 10.5.0 came out. However once with 10.5.2 I now prefer the Translucent Menu Bar.

I guess it depends on what background picture I have. My desktop is a space picture (not the default one) so the Translucent is not bad at all. Then if I change it to a nature background (like the original 10.5 beta background) the Translucent would have to be turned off.

So I guess it really depends on one's background picture.


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## bbloke (Feb 13, 2008)

Mikuro said:


> I don't think you're wrong about the menus, seeing as you noticed it on your own and Apple says there is a difference. I just wonder why I'm not getting it. I get the same result now after I installed the graphics update, too. *shrug*


It's a fair point, I don't know why there is the difference either.  As you say, it could be related to the "Core" technologies.  I've taken an old screenshot from 10.5.1 and matched it (more or less) with what I see under 10.5.2.


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## Rhisiart (Feb 13, 2008)

Stacks still leaves me wanting. Yes, its great to have a list view, but I still have to do two clicks (not a double click) to get to where I want to. With Tiger you just held down the icon in the right side of the dock and scrolled.


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## Lt Major Burns (Feb 14, 2008)

seems buggier now.  

screensavers are having problems.  itunes artwork saver has been updated, but for some reason when it comes on as a screensaver (ie not 'test'), it stutters and changes to the 'computer name' screen saver for some reason.  i've also had problems with the spectrum saver having trouble starting, the screen flashes between desktop and screensaver over and over again...

occasionally, i'll come to the computer and the left screen has changed its wallpaper back to the leopard aurora default, and if i attempt to change it to something different, it just changes back to aurora. only restart fixes this.

InDesign CS3 is unusable, with Open, Save As, Place and Export dialogues causing hard crashes of indesign.  fine under 10.4, fine with InDesign CS1.  this is more adobe though.

When using Wiretap Pro, syslogd starts a runaway process and eventually uses upto 180% CPU, causing the recordings to fail.  force quitting works, but then spawns again to repeat an instant runaway process.

System Preferences now is fairly unstable, and i've had it crash a few times since 10.5.2.

bah.


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## Mikuro (Feb 14, 2008)

bbloke said:


> It's a fair point, I don't know why there is the difference either.  As you say, it could be related to the "Core" technologies.  I've taken an old screenshot from 10.5.1 and matched it (more or less) with what I see under 10.5.2.



Ahhh, I think I see the difference now, looking at your screenshows. It looks like with your hardware, it's not only translucent, but it blurs what's behind it, too, which must use Core Image. I didn't know they used Core Image for that on supported hardware. I guess they do that for the menu bar, too, otherwise they would've made it translucent on all hardware.

Seems to me like Microsoft and Apple keep copying each other's worst ideas.


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## bbloke (Feb 14, 2008)

Lt Major Burns: Oh dear, it sounds like you're having quite a few problems since the update.  I haven't noticed the same problems, so I tested a few of your examples.

For me, the iTunes Artwork and Spectrum screensavers have been fine.  Desktop backgrounds also have remained as whatever I set them to be.

InDesign CS3 has been fine for me.  Open, Save As, Place, and Export all work as expected, with no crashes.  Have you applied all updates from Adobe?

The only thing I have noticed is that sometimes Adobe apps can misbehave when using them in conjunction with Spaces; I can return to an Adobe app to find palettes/toolbars missing and it can take some messing about to bring them back.  It's an annoying bug, but it isn't show stopping.

On a related note, I've found Adobe Acrobat Professional 8.1.2 is now working fine under 10.5.2.


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## bbloke (Feb 14, 2008)

Mikuro said:


> Ahhh, I think I see the difference now, looking at your screenshows. It looks like with your hardware, it's not only translucent, but it blurs what's behind it, too, which must use Core Image. I didn't know they used Core Image for that on supported hardware. I guess they do that for the menu bar, too, otherwise they would've made it translucent on all hardware.


Yes, the image behind the menu bar is blurred, as is anything behind a menu under 10.5.1.  I did think the menu bar did not look the same on all hardware, but had not heard anything to confirm this, so I didn't think much more of it.  I felt the transparent menus, complete with blurring effect, under 10.5.1 looked a little bit more elegant than the current ones, but I guess it is a matter of opinion!



Mikuro said:


> Seems to me like Microsoft and Apple keep copying each other's worst ideas.


Awww, I actually quite liked the menus under 10.5.1, actually!  

What I'd prefer is that Apple lets users sets level of transparency (for the menu bar and the menus) via a slider, rather than making it on/off for the menu bar and not giving the user any choice over the menus.  I suppose the counter-argument could be that it starts to make all the settings within the OS more cumbersome to some.


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## Satcomer (Feb 15, 2008)

bbloke said:


> What I'd prefer is that Apple lets users sets level of transparency (for the menu bar and the menus) via a slider, rather than making it on/off for the menu bar and not giving the user any choice over the menus.



Apple's Mac OS X Feedback


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## bbloke (Feb 15, 2008)

*smirk*

Fair enough!


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## Rhisiart (Feb 15, 2008)

Lt Major Burns said:


> InDesign CS3 is unusable, with Open, Save As, Place and Export dialogues causing hard crashes of indesign.  fine under 10.4, fine with InDesign CS1.  this is more adobe though.


No problems with InDesign CS3 on my Mac Mini.


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## Lt Major Burns (Feb 16, 2008)

indesign problem sorted.  it was a known problem when version cue autoupdater gt corrupted.  a simple apple script fixed the corruption and it's all dandy now.

itunes screen saver still bloody annoying.  seeing if there's any fix for it yet...


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## fryke (Feb 16, 2008)

bbloke said:


> *smirk*
> 
> Fair enough!



Actually: No, certainly not "fair enough".  Because, well: Apple had it right with Rhapsody's detail of adjustability regarding the interface. But when Steve Jobs saw how people chose veeeeeeeeeeeery strange colour schemes, he probably freaked and went with the whole "the user doesn't have to care" thing.

The way Apple has treated the interface regarding user-changes, I'd say we have to be *VERY* grateful about this one control. It's there, it works, don't complain, or it'll go away in 10.5.3.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Feb 16, 2008)

I, for one, am satisfied with the number and level of interface adjustments Apple lets us have.  Apple is poised in a position where they're gaining marketshare very rapidly, and a lot of those users are either new to Apple or new to computers in general.  Vast amounts of options, for someone who doesn't know too much about computers, could scare them off -- how are they to know that the option to change their DNS servers could potentially render their internet connection kaput, versus a simple option like menu transparency that doesn't affect the underpinnings of the computer at all?  The less options there are, the more rapidly people become familiarized with the operating system.  It's like trying to remember a series of numbers.  1, 7, 9 = easy.  1, 6, 5.4, 1001, 546, pi, 7 4/9 = hard.

Try throwing a windowing system like KDE at a new computer user, and see exactly how much they WANT to use that computer.  Even GNOME's window manager has some strange options placed in strange places.  I, for one, am extremely pleased with Apple's stance of only including the options that are really relevant to making the computing experience enjoyful.

You can always tweak the interface, if you're a power-user, via the command line, or via 3rd-party software... for example, for control over the shape/alpha/positioning of the menubar, try this:

http://homepage.mac.com/mdsw/md softworks.html

I do realize that people are extremely picky and particular about how they want their desktops and GUIs to look.  But I take the stance that these tweaks and modifications should remain out-of-the-way and should not be included in the appearance System Preference pane, simply because too many options would scare off too many people.

Besides, really and honestly, does the menubar translucency or opacity REALLY make you work any faster or slower?  Back in Tiger and Panther, did the fact that you couldn't adjust the grid spacing on the desktop make it a deal-beaker for trying to get any work done?  Are people so inflexible that the switch from folder-style menus to Stacks in the dock made it extremely difficult to adjust?  I can't shake this image in my head of someone coming home from work and parking their car rear-first in the driveway... then waking up the next morning to find their car facing the opposite direction in the driveway, and them standing there... scratching their head... not knowing what to do next... being so perplexed by and affixed on a simple change that they're unable to proceed with simply getting in the car, BACKING out, and heading off to work.

Apple didn't design their interface for you... nor you... nor you either.  They designed it, as did Microsoft, as did the GNOME team, as did the KDE team, for the majority of users they thought would be using the system.  If we all got our wishes and saw our feature-requests and interface-tweaks implemented, Mac OS X would be one, big, steamy pile of you-know-what.  I know we all think that what we each individually want is the one, big, important feature that Apple's just missing out on and refuses to implement, but it's simply not true.  You can work around it, or without it, and it doesn't affect your productivity as much as a lot of people like to think it does.


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## Lt Major Burns (Feb 17, 2008)

still a slider'd be nice.  one for menu bar, one for menus.


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## arninetyes (Feb 17, 2008)

Here's  a nice bug with the 10.5.2 and Leopard Graphics update - 

I have a Powerbook G4, 1.5GHz, 1.25GB RAM.  Apple's DVD-player worked great with 10.5.1.  After installing 10.5.2, DVD-player still worked fine. Then came the Leopard Graphics Update.  Not only does DVD-player not work, but it locks up the machine every time.  There is no way to force the program to quit, the system must be hard reset.

Interestingly, if there is a DVD in the drive, the DVD plays, as I can hear the drive working AND the soundtrack of the DVD.  But there is no DVD image, just the desktop as it was when DVD player started, and, of course, the wondrous spinning beach ball.  The result is the same if no DVD is in the drive.

Apparently, I'm not the only one.  I can only hope that Apple issues a fix soon.

BTW - DVD's play fine using VLC, but that doesn't fix the problem.


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