# Speculation XBox2 may use G5-based chipset?



## mdnky (Nov 4, 2003)

Anyone see this article on yahoo or anywhere else?  Microsoft announced they would be using chips from IBM in the next XBox console...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=2&u=/nm/20031103/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_dc



Wired News is reporting it to be a PowerPC chip:

http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1


IBM Press Release


> According to Bernie Meyerson, IBM Fellow and chief technologist for IBM's Technology Group, the new Xbox technologies will be based on the latest in IBM's family of state-of-the-art processors.


http://www.ibm.com/news/us/2003/11/031.html


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## JetwingX (Nov 4, 2003)

hold your horses! there is plenty of time for another company ( say intell) to offer a lower price before the next Xbox comes out


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## Giaguara (Nov 4, 2003)

... If that comes out, I want one of those Xboxes. 


I'll just buy it with no games, format it, install some version of Linux and voilà I'll have resolved all the server problems. I hope they will keep the pricing like now: If you buy an Xbox but no games, you are making loss for M$.


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## symphonix (Nov 4, 2003)

IBM has announced an agreement to make the chipset that will drive the next generation of Microsoft's XBox. While it is still a long way off, there is already some speculation that the next XBox may use a variant of IBM's PowerPC processor already used on the Apple PowerMac G5 and IBM Opteron systems.

Press Release:
http://w3-3.ibm.com/technology/news/2003/1103-xbox-press.html

One of the more 'speculative' articles:
http://arstechnica.com/archive/news/1067882060.html

ZDNet:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5101146.html

Reuters:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=1&u=/nm/20031103/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_dc

EE Times:
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20031103S0060


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## Total Konfuzion (Nov 4, 2003)

Supposedly it's going to be IBM PowerPc based.  That would break that wintel alliance that has been going on since the dawn of time.  Triumph!


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## Sogni (Nov 4, 2003)

Eh? Make MS lose money??? Ok that all of a sudden got my intrest peaked!


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## Zammy-Sam (Nov 4, 2003)

Than I would insist that the xbox wouldn't look like an X but an apple!


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## cybergoober (Nov 4, 2003)

Sogni said:
			
		

> Eh? Make MS lose money??? Ok that all of a sudden got my intrest peaked!



Erm, IIRC MS loses money on every XBox sold already anyhow.

BTW - Isn't the GameCube powered by a PPC?


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## Jason (Nov 4, 2003)

Gamecube is G3 based IIRC

also, MS will lose more money if you dont buy an Xbox rather than if you did


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## Captain Code (Nov 4, 2003)

If it's true that they will be running on a PPC chip, then they will have to port Windows to PPC.  XBox uses a version of Windows as the OS.

Or, they may use VPC to emulate the X86 architecture but they would have to put a lot of effort into making it faster.


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## fryke (Nov 4, 2003)

Yes, cybergoober. Right in both cases. ;-)
I don't think this will have anything to do with any 'Wintel' breakup. Sure, it's kind of unexpected that MS does this (skip intel, I mean...), but anything like "Now we'll see Windows XP on Macs" is certainly way off. Microsoft has to pull all registers if they want to win against the other players in the game console market. They've learned something, is all.


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## Zammy-Sam (Nov 4, 2003)

well, looks like we found out why MS secretly ordered a bunch of G5s...


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## Pengu (Nov 4, 2003)

The game cube uses a IBM "G3" and the next Sony Console is supposed to be using a PPC architecture of some sort. As for the XBOX. It doesn't uses Windows, it is said to use a stripped down version of the Windows 2000 Kernel, which of course is in ROM/NVRAM not actually on the HDD. Who knows. with some solder and the right ROM chip, you could see OSX on an XBOX


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## Captain Code (Nov 4, 2003)

So it is at least the Windows Kernel then.  That explains why it crashes all the time


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## symphonix (Nov 4, 2003)

"If it's true that they will be running on a PPC chip, then they will have to port Windows to PPC"

The PowerPC chip that is the basis for the G5 already supports Windows 2003 Server 64-bit edition, so this has already been done.


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## Pengu (Nov 4, 2003)

Says who?


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## Zammy-Sam (Nov 5, 2003)

symphonix said:
			
		

> "If it's true that they will be running on a PPC chip, then they will have to port Windows to PPC"
> 
> The PowerPC chip that is the basis for the G5 already supports Windows 2003 Server 64-bit edition, so this has already been done.



Really??? 
Do you have a link?


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## Arden (Nov 5, 2003)

Intel- or PPC-based... I'm still not going to buy one.l


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## Stridder44 (Nov 5, 2003)

I second that, but others speculate that they might use the Cell processor which will be used in the Playstation3. But if IBM allowed Microsoft that right, Sony would be livid. I personally doubt they'd use either Cell or a G5. 

BTW, I wonder what it'd be like if Apple got into this market....that would be awsome...maybe..


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## Pengu (Nov 5, 2003)

XBOX2 is supposed to use a derivitive of the Power5, the Father to PPC 980.
As for apple in the console market. No. M$ makes a loss on every console, and then hopes they make it back in game sales.
I for one would prefer apple didnt enter the console market. While their games would no doubt have the best graphics out there, It doesnt have the oomph that MS, Sony or Nintendo do, to persuade game makers. And it cant just up and buy companies MS style to force them to make games.

Personally, i think a Cube-style TV unit (use itunes, iphoto, dvds, etc via airport/rendevouz, with 5.1 & digital TV out) would be cool. when im not a poor student, i'm gonna build it!


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## nb3004 (Nov 6, 2003)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> BTW, I wonder what it'd be like if Apple got into this market....that would be awsome...maybe..




the iPippin


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## Arden (Nov 6, 2003)

The iPlay...

No, that's stupid.


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## texanpenguin (Nov 6, 2003)

Nah, Apples are reknowned for their lack of support for games, traditionally - an image that isn't too good for a console manufacturer .

And yeah, yeah, I know, they've actually got a whole BUNCH of games these days, it's too much of a risk in an already competetive field (consoles)


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## bookem (Nov 6, 2003)

nb3004 said:
			
		

> the iPippin




Wasn't the Pippin a very short lived console from Apple way back?


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## Reality (Nov 6, 2003)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> I second that, but others speculate that they might use the Cell processor which will be used in the Playstation3. But if IBM allowed Microsoft that right, Sony would be livid. I personally doubt they'd use either Cell or a G5.
> 
> BTW, I wonder what it'd be like if Apple got into this market....that would be awsome...maybe..



From how I got it understood the Cell is not even going to be in the PS3. The chip turns out isn't to even be done till a few years the PS3 is to release. It was just a bunch of hyped up crap they were feeding the media and their gamers to get re-excited about their next console. That is what I read though. As for Apple in the console market. Ah sure, have them team up with Nintendo. Those are two minds that think a like.


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## jhawk28 (Nov 6, 2003)

Apple has yet to impress me with the exception 3D graphics. If you look at raw speed, windows boxes kill all the time. Why? It is becasue games drive the 3D market. And what games are in the mac? Games that are a year old or more...


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## Pengu (Nov 6, 2003)

In case you hadn't realised, Macs are still used largely by CREATIVE PROFESSIONALS. Consoles are designed for games. Macs are designed for ease of use, and high quality, intuitive working.
Wintel PCs aren't designed to do anything, it's purely by chance that they even boot.
If you want to play games, why would you use a keyboard and mouse, on a (comparitively) small screen, 8-12 inches from your face, when you have a (comparitively) large screen with a comfortable couch, and a system DESIGNED EXCLUSIVELY FOR GAMES out in your lounge room.
As much as it pains me to say it, at the moment the XBOX is the best console available, in my opinion. Yes it has crazy DRM regarding burnt cds etc, and yes it's the spawn of satan. But it still has better features/ease of use/price than the others.


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## Total Konfuzion (Nov 6, 2003)

/me loves his Playstation 2.  Sure the graphics aren't quite on par with the Xbox...but I still love it.  Also...a response to Pengu.  Why would I want to play games on my pc/monitor.  A.)  Better quality picture.  I can turn on Anti-Aliasing and Anistropic filtering and it will completely look better than the same game for ANY console out there.  B.) I have a gamepad for games that play better with it, but have you ever tried playing a FPS with a controller?  How could anyone say Halo for the Xbox was enjoyable to play?  Blah...give me an optical mouse and keyboard anyday.  C.)  Online multiplayer games are great...something consoles have yet to accomplish in great mass.  Where else but my pc can I play Counter-Strike or an RPG in a world full of thousands of other people?  Once consoles all have Broadband connectivity and a large community of online users....then I'll switch over, but until them....Single Player games=console / Multiplayer games=Pc(the only reason i really use it, heh)  Also..TV-Out..yeah...with my pc in the living room i can sit back with a wireless mouse and wireless optical mouse on my comfortable couch with a piece of greasy pizza and a beer and play the games on the big screen...with AA and Aniso Filtering   w00t


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## Reality (Nov 6, 2003)

I take a simple GCN for my hardcore gaming. it's that one system that has the games. I tried Keyboard and mouse gaming before I don't understand how they do it. My wrist was in pain after 10 minutes of moving around. I much rather sit down in a nice couch, pop in Vietiful Joe, turn on the surround sound, turn on the high rez (when I get the TV XD) with a wireless wavebird in hand and just have some fun. I had to make a choice of if I get a Mac I'll sacrifice they PC gaming and the Cube was cheap very high quality so I went with that combo.


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## Pengu (Nov 7, 2003)

If you have poor quality on your tv, maybe you should spend comparitive amounts on your tv. Of course a CRT TV is never going to look as good as an LCD monitor. Get an LCD/Plasma tv.
What is wrong with Halo/XBOX controls? I have seen people who have never even used an XBOX before sit down, and after being told ONCE what the basic controls are, play Halo, and ENJOY IT. A controller such as the XBOX's has thumbsticks and triggers, which are all analogue, ie: they can have fractional "values", not just on or off. Try doing that with a keyboard. and a mouse only has so many buttons/movements. Remember. Keyboards: designed for.. TYPING. Mice: designed for... interacting with a GUI. Console Controllers: designed for... PLAYING GAMES.

As for network play. Not everyone has/can get/can afford/wants to use broadband for gaming. besides. where is the fun in sitting in a dark room all alone playing against someone 3000 miles away?
I suggest you try playing HALO or a comparitive mulitplayer game with 16 people all together in ONE PLACE screaming and laughing and HAVING FUN.

Also, there are several options for playing multiplayer games on consoles, ONLINE. xbox has either XBOX Live, or you can use your broadband connection and a small application (it basically tunnels the xbox network data through the net and makes it look like a lan) to play with others online. I beleive Sony has released a network adapter kit for the PS2. As for any nintendo products. Nintendo has always seemed like a toy designed those aged 13 and under.

I'm not saying that you are WRONG for preferring to use a pc with a mouse and keyboard. im just saying for MOST people, a console is far cheaper, easier and more effective.


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## Pengu (Nov 7, 2003)

On a side note. Symphonix (sp?) said that Windows Server 2003 will basically run on a PPC 970/G5. 
Two of us asked for more info/proof, but it never appeared.


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## Stridder44 (Nov 7, 2003)

Halo. Heh, yea, I admit, with a bunch of people (in the same room as you) it is fun, but gets old (just as anything does). What would the Xbox be know for if it didn't have Halo?


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## Pengu (Nov 7, 2003)

A good point strider, but suprisingly, the network is almost apple-like, in that it needs no config. plug and play, quite literally.


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## symphonix (Nov 7, 2003)

Sorry it took me a while to get back to you on this.
I had a quick look at this, and Windows 2003 Server, and a beta version of Windows Xp 64-bit, are both available on the Intel Itanium 64-bit processor. I had thought these supported the PowerPC based Opteron processor as well, but it seems I was wrong on this point.
Either way, I'd say if Microsoft chose to release a XBox2 with any given chipset, they would have no troubles porting their code to almost any chipset currently in contention.


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## free&unmuzzled (Nov 8, 2003)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Really???
> Do you have a link?



http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/031103/tech_microsoft_2.html
http://news.com.com/2100-1043_3-5101146.html?tag=st_rn
http://forum.xbox365.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013254#000022

etc. etc.


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## solrac (Nov 8, 2003)

Giaguara said:
			
		

> ... If that comes out, I want one of those Xboxes.
> 
> 
> I'll just buy it with no games, format it, install some version of Linux and voilà I'll have resolved all the server problems. I hope they will keep the pricing like now: If you buy an Xbox but no games, you are making loss for M$.



Yeah but if you don't buy an XBox at all... then you make even MORE loss for M$!!! HAHAH


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## Pengu (Nov 8, 2003)

I didnt know the Opteron is a PPC. I knew other (duron, athalon, etc) AMD chips weren't "real" x86, and that they actually emulated the IA-32 (aka x86) instruction set in hardware, on the chip itself, but i didnt know it was ppc based. interesting.


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## Arden (Nov 9, 2003)

I don't know about the whole tunneling thing with the Xbox.  Sure, you can get 16 people playing at the same time.  That still doesn't beat playing with 32 or 64 people in an intensive match of, say, Battlefield: 1942.

And aiming in a first-person shooter, such as Halo, on the Xbox completely sucks.  It uses joysticks for movement and looking; joysticks are far better suited for aviation-based scenarios.  I prefer the accuracy and ease of correction of a device meant for pointing at things precisely, a mouse.

Trackballs were also made for interfacing with a GUI.  But trackballs also suck for FPS's.

Again, to each his own.


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## Pengu (Nov 9, 2003)

Arden. UT2003 for XBOX supports up to 64 players. that would be 16 xboxes if all in one place. I don't want to know how crazy it would get. but as you said, to each his own.


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## Krevinek (Nov 13, 2003)

Pengu said:
			
		

> The game cube uses a IBM "G3" and the next Sony Console is supposed to be using a PPC architecture of some sort. As for the XBOX. It doesn't uses Windows, it is said to use a stripped down version of the Windows 2000 Kernel, which of course is in ROM/NVRAM not actually on the HDD. Who knows. with some solder and the right ROM chip, you could see OSX on an XBOX



The PS3's cell processor is being designed by IBM & Sony, which will probably use advancements from the PPC, yes... but it won't be a PPC chip. They are changing far too much for it to be based on a PPC product. Similar? Yes. PPC-based? No.


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## Arden (Nov 15, 2003)

Pengu said:
			
		

> Arden. UT2003 for XBOX supports up to 64 players. that would be 16 xboxes if all in one place. I don't want to know how crazy it would get. but as you said, to each his own.


 I'm not quite sure how you would link 16 Xboxes together.  4, yes... 16, hmm.


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## Pengu (Nov 15, 2003)

Well, unlike other concoles, the XBOX has a built-in network port. just a standard RJ-45. Quite simple really. You get a 16 port switch (or hub if you are really skimpy) and 16 patch cables. I don't see how that is confusing?


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## Arden (Nov 15, 2003)

Well, it's not anymore.


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## bookem (Nov 17, 2003)

Let's hope it is going to be something PPC based and that IBM are not going to start making those horrible IA-32 clones they used to make a few years ago.


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## lilbandit (Nov 18, 2003)

As a matter of interest, what chip does/will playstation 2/3 use? Is is some sort of RISC affair or a modified Intel/PPC?


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