# How do you feel about Linux



## boneske (Apr 26, 2003)

I want to hear some opinions about the other OS that is in the run to take out Microsoft Windows out of the lead, you guessed it Linux.

I tried switching over from Windows on my x86 machine and we'll I find it impossible.  First off you have to have a rocket science degree to figure out how to use the clipboard (It's 2003 you would think they would have fixed the problem by now).  And then when it comes to having the latest and greatest hardware you wont be able to use it cause the hardware company doesnt make drivers for it and you wont see the Linux community creating drivers for it for a couple of years to come.  Even if your hardware is detected, you still have a good chance that it doesnt work right

From my year of messing around with the different distro's of Linux.... I find that Apple has a better chance of competing with Microsoft than the "Freeware" nation of Linux.

_________
boneske
Running Windows 2000 with P4 1.8Ghz
Still trying to save my pennies up for my Mac


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## Giaguara (Apr 26, 2003)

I like Linux. When I had a peecee it run Linux. It was nice. But I STILL fell in love with OS X and migrated to (only) Macs. So far the OS that is most what I want both by its behaviour and visuals is OS X. Linux is and was nice - now that I have only a Mac (I needed $ so I had to sell the old peecee) I don't feel the urge to play with Linuxes ... but the Linuxes are nice.
There are so many apps that are Win / Mac only - like all Adobe and Macromedia produts - even if GIMP is great it still has some bugs that make me still love Photoshop ... OS X seems to be the nicest UNIX using OS available. Linux is nice .... but I'm definitelly happier with OS X only right now.


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## adambyte (Apr 26, 2003)

I think Linux is an OS that is still for geeks who know what they're doing... if we're talking about Linux taking over the Windows home market, that's not going to happen until the Linux geeks find a graceful and easy way to install and uninstall applications. Otherwise, though, it's a fine OS. If I were to get PC hardware for some strange reason, I'm find a nice Linux distro and learn more about compliling and all that...

But my sexy Mac and its sexy OS are fine with me for now.


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## boneske (Apr 27, 2003)

I guess I looked at mostly the negitive when I tried switching over.  It wasn't bad but it isnt like Windows or MacOS.  I work with MacOS sometimes at work, and most of the problems I have with Linux I dont have OS X.  True I never saw a crash but I never saw my extra hard drives on my RAID Array either.


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## binaryDigit (Apr 27, 2003)

Well keep in mind that the area where Linux really is competing with Windoze is in the server space, where issues like you mentioned aren't really an issue (at least as not as big of an issue).  No matter what any Linux nerd will tell you, it has a LOOOOONG way to go before it becomes viable as a general purpose desktop replacement.  In that department it's main strength is also it's main weakness, it's open development.


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## bluehz (Apr 27, 2003)

Linux is making inroads - but I believe you are correct - until they get AT LEAST the install process down to a user frienly experience, then its not going to be a very viable system. I don't even think its the process itself as much as there is a different process for each distro. You can't expect general acceptance if their are no standards that can be followed and understood by the general user.

Now in saying that - I also must say - as a server platform - Linux is fantastic!! I pulled and old PC out of a dumpster a couple of years ago and it sat in the closet for years. One Sunday I got bored and decided to pull it out and take it to the Goodwill. Instead I pulled it out and spent about an hour researching Linux which I had zero knowledge about. After a couple of hours - I had a working server running on our LAN. Over the next few months I piled a webserver, mailserver, proxy server, spam daemon, and piles of other stuff onto this once doomed PC. No matter what I did - it just kept ticking and serving... all on a PC with 100Mhz CPU and 48MHz of RAM.... hahaha!!! To this day that same server is an integral part of our LAN. So you might as - why not use OS X as a server. WHY? Because that would require me to "sacrifice" one of my valuable Macs to server duty. Using Linux - I can delegate a crappy, dumpster PC to the task.

What I discovered was that all the new Unix stuff I was learning in OS X - transcribed beautifully to Linux world.... so the more I tinkered the more I learned. I know have a fairly good understanding of Unix and shell scripting because of my time spent with OS X and Linux. Mind you - when I researched Linux, I chose one of the distros that is more server oriented with stability and security being high priroitys. So I personally use Slackware (just upgraded to 9.0) - but many consider Slack one of the more "geeky" distros. I don't run a GUI on the Linux box, don't even have a monitor hooked to it - instead I do everything via OS X and SSH connection.

If you just want to experiment with Linux - I might suggest trying it in VPC if you have that. Most Linux (at least I know Slackware does) installs quite nicely onto a VPC disk image. Great way to get a peek, play around, then throw it away when done.


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## willmac (Apr 27, 2003)

I agree that Linux is still for geeks and has a way to go before it is a desktop OS for all but I think that the difficulties of working with it are often exagerated. I built a pc from old hardware at work and installed Redhat 8. So I not only had old hardware (266MHz Pentium chip - old motherboard etc) but a non standard set of components scavenged from machines made by several vendors. The OS installed with no problems. Everything was detected first time around. 

I also installed Windows 98. Win98 couldn't find the sound card or the network card and chose a crappy driver for my monitor.

My favourite OS is still Mac OS X but Linux rocks as well

will


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## Androo (Apr 27, 2003)

I dont like windows... red hat looks too much like windows 98, but that Connectiva Linux looks like a combination of Mac os x and Windoze xp....


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## mdnky (Apr 27, 2003)

While my Mac is at work I'm using a p3 600 Dell Laptop....poor me.  I repartioned it and installed Mandrake 9 and Win2kPro.  

Linux is not friendly for the average user...they need to fix this before it'll ever topple Windows.  Not to mention the extreme lack of software for an avg user (at a store, precompiled with an installed like windows).  

I personally run Linux on the laptop as much as possible...runs better!  But I really want my Mac back home....soon!


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## Giaguara (Apr 27, 2003)

my uncle is about 65 and his wife about 60, and they both think linux is easier than windows. so as i got tired of formatting their computers every time i visit them, i partitioned some and installed windoze and linux .. (RH & mandrake on other) ... and told them where to find a terminal guide etc. they like it a lot (and hate windoze.). the bext time i see them i probably will be asked to install linux only to their 'puters, and the next move to that will be OS X as fas as i can guess...

for geeks? i am a geek, and happier with OS X. uncle & wife are over 60 and they think linux is easier to understand than windoze. does that say something?


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## hulkaros (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *for geeks? i am a geek, and happier with OS X. uncle & wife are over 60 and they think linux is easier to understand than windoze. does that say something?  *



It says that you, your family and your relatives in general, are VERY smart and capable people unlike the rest of us    

Oh, and that Windoze really DO suck!


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## a_liping_dante (Apr 29, 2003)

...my 7 y/o daughter ask for a computer for her birthday so i buy her a Acer TM210, since I was very funned of LINUX, i make it dual boot with Debian GNU/Linux and M$WinXP.
...she use WinXP at first, ...become curious when she saw me on terminal doing some stuff! the next time i power-up her notebook she requested to try what she saw on me, of course i cant log her to terminal so i log her in on GUI, intruduce LINUX native games for kids... now WinXP is useless!!!::ha::


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## Viro (Aug 26, 2004)

*sigh*

Wished my dad had bought me a computer when I was 7...


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## Randman (Aug 26, 2004)

Why dredge up a thread more than a year old and just say that?


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## nixgeek (Aug 26, 2004)

I love it...always have, always will.  Slack is my preferred distro.  I love Mac OS X and Classic Mac OS, but I find myself going back to the penguin.  Most of my favorite apps are there, and I've tried getting them on Mac OS X through Fink, but haven't been successful yet.  Maybe someday.  I have Mac OS X Panther installed at work on my current G4 system, Jaguar on my work PowerBook G3, and Slack on my work PC.


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## TommyWillB (Aug 26, 2004)

Here is where Linux falls in my OS order of preferences: 



   Mac OS X
   SGI Irix (Great GUI)
   Solaris (on Sparc of course)
   Linux (if you have to use the "intel" part of "wintel", the at least have a Unix)   
I'd do the full LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP)   

   Windows 2000 or XP (When in Redmond... run WinTel)
     Mac OS 9
  Windows NT 4
Palm OS
   My old TI 99/4a
   DOS... or maybe that old Tandy (Radio Shack) DOS GUI (forget the name)
the calculator on my cell phone
  pencil & paper
fingers & toes
  Slide rule
  Windows 95/98/ME
I've never used the Amiga nor OS/2, but I bet both of those would be well above DOS...


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## powermac (Aug 27, 2004)

I used Linux before, and really liked it. Like many peeps, I experienced trouble installing it. My video card always seemed to give me trouble, especially with the right configuration. I enjoyed the learning process, and could always get back to the Macintosh for when I needed to get stuff done. I used Yellowdog on my old G3 mac, it ran nice. 
I just read that HP is shipping a laptop with SUSE linux on it. That may attract more people to linux who have heard install nightmare stories. 
Personally, it will take years for Linux to be a threat to Windows for the personal computer desktop. I can't believe the improvements Linux has made over the last few years. SUSE has made a nice distro for people like me, that makes install somewhat easier.


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## scruffy (Aug 27, 2004)

Tommy - why is the slide rule so low on the list?  They're great - I'd put slide rule above DOS any day.  Slide rule tops DOS for user friendliness, and for reliability.


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## blue&whiteman (Aug 27, 2004)

linux is a great os for those that like unix but want something more user friendly.  its like a cross between windows and free bsd some would say.  

free bsd though is true unix and linux is more of a 2G minux (open source os that dates back to the 80's and is also based on unix).

I honestly think that osx is the best *nix os there is when you look at it in an all around use way.  its very user friendly yet has all the goods of a true unix os in free bsd.


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## blue&whiteman (Aug 27, 2004)

Randman said:
			
		

> Why dredge up a thread more than a year old and just say that?



I can't see anything wrong with bringing up an old thread again.  it still exists to be viewed and as long as the mods allow posts to it still then there is no problem at all.


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## Jeffo (Aug 27, 2004)

I am definately a die-hard mac user (both 9 and X), but i have dome some dabling with various linux versions.  All the machines i have put linux on were older ones so i did not have a problem with finding drivers for the hardware i had hooked up.  in fact most of the time it found eveything the first time and it worked with the exception of a few pci cards like a NIC i had in an old PI/133 system.  I aggree with a previous poster though, linux is and will be for a long time a nerd OS.


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## delsoljb32 (Aug 27, 2004)

would it be worth it for the experience to install linux onto a partitioned mac? i have had limited exposure to linux, but am curious and would like the opportunity to use a full fledged distribution of it, rather than a behind the scenes OS X dabble. Any suggestions?


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## Jeffo (Aug 27, 2004)

I would say yes if you have a desire then do it.  i mean it is free, afterall.  I would just suggest to make sure that you have plenty of time to loose.  not that things will go bad, but don't be surprised if they do.


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## Viro (Aug 28, 2004)

Sure you could partition your hard disk and install Linux on a different partition. I recommend YellowdogLinux since its quite user friendly and is very PPC focused. You might want to wait for a while since they are going to release v4.0 soon and from what I have read it is a major update.

@Randman:
I didn't realise how old this thread was. I stumbled across it while searching for something, can't remember what now


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## delsoljb32 (Aug 28, 2004)

yeah, i have plenty of time to kill, plus it will be a good exercise for preparing to go back to school in january. i need to get back into these kinds of things, ive been engrossed in the "business" of computers too long. 

i have a 60 GB drive, so a 20/40 Split should suffice if i use the 20 for linux right? I'll have to check out yellowdog, i have a friend who has been using SuSE, is that a good version?


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## Viro (Aug 29, 2004)

SuSE and Mandrake for PPC are pretty much dead. THey haven't been updated in a long long while. The most current distros for PPC are Yellowdoglinux, Gentoo and Debian listed in order of my preference and IMHO ease of use.

20 GB for Linux should be more than enough especially since you're just gonna be trying it out.


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## delsoljb32 (Aug 29, 2004)

cool, im going to look into it this week. im sure i'll be here if i have questions! thanks.


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## Convert (Sep 1, 2004)

Being a PC user (soon to change, hehe), I instaled Linux as a temporary OS. 

The story begins....

I have a good PC. 3.2Ghz IP 4 Processor, 200GB HD, Geforce FX 5200 256mb Graphics, DVD Copier, 1024 RAM.

It has NEVER liked Windows. Or Windows has NEVER liked it. It was a brand new machine, BUILT for XP. All went well for a day, installed some games, then it froze whilst loadig XP. Had to to a system recovery, lost my files. 

After this, all is fine. ONe month later, I just switch on my PC, and it logs me off, all the time. Cant access my files. SR again. 

This happened 8 more times, and I lost all my work. I am a writer, I had 200 poems being published, most gone. I've managed to find them between publishers, so not all is lost.

But at one time, the SR didn't work. Wouldn't install. I had a Linux RedHat disc (well, 3) that I never used. So whilst talking to the Tech support  (useless) I installed it. 

I LOVED it. ONly problem is, for a 16 yr old like me, it didn't have all the things I wanted (couldnt even pick up the sound card), and there were a lot of progs available for Windows and OS X, but not Linux.

Otherwise, it was great. reat interface, better to customise, more reliable than windows.

I'd recomend having it on one pc, and Windows/OS X on another. But not as a stand alone.


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## Viro (Sep 2, 2004)

You should have tried Knoppix. Its a live CD and so the whole OS loads from the disc. Many people use it to recover files from a dead Windows install before reformatting.

Also, Mandrake have launched 10.1 beta for PPC. That is pretty much current, but who knows how long they will support the PPC architecture for?


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## Ailes Grise (Sep 3, 2004)

Linux? I think Linux is quite good and I dont think it's too difficult for an average
user to get to grips with it. 

   I'm not a computer science major nor am I a tech wizard of some sort. When I 
expressed an Interest to learn how to use a computer to a friend ( who's a sys
admin), she came over with an old unused Hp pentium 90 comp installed with Red Hat 6. 

   So, with an additional $10 investment for a monitor, keyboard and mouse from the local Salvation Army outlet, she set the computer up and taught me some basic
command line stuff, using emacs, starting Gnome and how to use the mouse. Bear in mind at that time, I stayed away from computers.
 I didn't know what email was and could not even tell the difference between a Mac, Windows or whatever else, but within a week I was surfing the web and writing emails. 

When I did buy a brand new computer( a dell dimension 733), I
Asked for Red Hat Linux cause thats what I know how to use. Of course, I wasn't doing any work, just surfing, email, some wordprocessing, and mp3's.

  Being a classically trained artist, I wanted to go CG and was recomended a Mac but I could not afford a DP quiksilver G4's so I settled for a refurbished P4 machine with win2kpro. but for many years, I ran Linux even though I was not a tech savvy person. It helped me later when I had  to use an SGI machine and some commands I learned still worked in OS X terminal. I installed Suse 9.1 on my pc and found that its easier and better
than when I was staring out with it many years ago

  I switched last year and I'm a happy owner of 2 Macs:- a Powerbook and a G5


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## legacyb4 (Sep 3, 2004)

Great for recycling old PC hardware...


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## whyre (Sep 17, 2004)

legacyb4 said:
			
		

> Great for recycling old PC hardware...


  I agree whole-heartedly!  I can't tell you the number of PCs I've given away to friends and family with Linux on it.  A lot of them even the nicer P4s and AMD-XPs, the warranties had run out, and they were what I call 'Windows broken'.  Windows wouldn't install, locked up, just made the machine unusable.  So I take the 'Windows broken' stuff home, load up linux (Depending on who I'm giving it to, it is usually SUSE or Gentoo), test it for a few days, and someone would be the proud owner of a new virus free PC.   

  It's a hobby of mine to load various Linuxes (as well as other x86 OSes like QNX or Zeta) and play around with them, and learn the strengths and weaknesses of each so I know who to reccomend to people of various experience levels.  

  So I'd have to say, in short, that If I'm not on my Mac, I'm running some flavor of linux for x86 hardware.


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## fryke (Sep 17, 2004)

I've installed Fedora Core 2 on an AMD Athlon 900 MHz a few weeks ago. Installation was a snap - and shorter in time than WinXP. Setup was a breeze and the 'basic things' like web surfing, sending and receiving E-Mail, autoupdating as well as writing with OpenOffice.org's Writer application was all done very, very easily. Now if only _those_ were the only purposes for a computer, the world'd be a fine linux place to live in. No need for anything else. No need for faster computers, either. But: That's not how the world evolves...

Still: People who claim installation of linux is difficult have either got _very_ strange, very old or very new hardware, because with more or less common hardware, everything's just fine and dandy...


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## texanpenguin (Sep 18, 2004)

With the exception (perhaps) of FC (1 & 2) with Gnome, I _despise_ Linux.

All the perfectly good Dell Opterons at Uni run RedHat 9, since it's free. I choose to use the Gnome WM because KDE was so ugly and unintuitive, and because I hate Konqueror.

These machines routinely will lock up during simple, ordinary, usual tasks (writing C++ code [not compiling or running, WRITING] in nedit), and will refuse to restart until you reinstall the operating system. This is such a problem that the boot manager "Rembo" has two options: Boot Linux, Reinstall Linux. Keep in mind these machines don't get much of a beating. They don't do much. Yet they fail repeatedly.

And these are STOCK DELLS. They're about the most supported hardware you can get in Linux.


So aside from its horrible reliability (despite what everyone else seems to think), there's the issue of its inconsistent and illogical ergonomics. It's all over the place. On occasion, windows will allow you to make them active, and yet not bring them infront of other document windows of the same program. Simple GUI ideas that appear in every operating system aren't there anymore. In gFTP, the connect button is in the most illogical place in the world. People read screen elements (primarily) left to right. So they put the elements in the order "Connect", "Server", "Log-on Details", "Server Settings". What the hell was going on there? Seriously?

I know it comes from the concept of collaborative projects, but to me, it's just a reason to HATE collaborative programming projects. The ones that make it to OS X are, gladly, refined and usable (Mozilla, etc), but so many are tragic.

I've tried to install a simple program once on Linux. I followed the readme (on the site's website) to the letter, but it didn't work. So I went to the program's forum. I asked "why doesn't this work? It keeps telling me such and such isn't valid?" And they say "Well, naturally you need to install * and * and * libs" - the accumulative size of which was well in excess of 40 megs. A 200K program became 40.2MB (which, on dialup, is stupid).

Not to mention that the whole system runs badly and awkwardly, like my regular distaste for its handling of alpha-transparency in the Terminal, and that it all looks pathetic, even with good Window themes.


Fedora Core looks and runs nicely when it's set up right for the computer it's on though, but I still wouldn't use Linux as a primary operating system, ever.

I like Windows (most of the time), I like Mac OS (all of the time), but I despise Linux. I'd prefer to use a BSD shell than use any of the awkward interfaces I've used on Linux. Although Gnome is somewhat usable (unlike KDE which makes me want to eat my own feet instead of sitting at the computer)


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## Jeffo (Sep 18, 2004)

I, personally, have never seen linux be that unstable.  sounds to me like something in the setup or faulty hardware.  i doubt it would be faulty hardware if all of them do it though.


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