# What do people really think about Microsoft Word?



## Ceroc Addict (Oct 12, 2004)

Something that I've found baffling for a number of years now:

The vast majority of computer buyers still seem (to me) to base their computer purchasing decision around whether the computer will run Microsoft Word (or rather, Microsoft Office).

This may have made sense back when Microsoft Word was a _decent_ word processor, but now it's a bloated mess. There must hundreds of thousands of man hours wasted every day, from people trying to fiddle with Microsoft Word in order to get their lists to number properly, etc..

Or am I wrong? Do people feel that Microsoft Word (despite a few flaws) is still a great app and that they would continue to use it (even if document compatibility wasn't an issue)?

Kap


----------



## Ricky (Oct 12, 2004)

Microsoft's automatic formatting is a joke.  I would rather use a respectable, clean, and fast text editor like TextEdit, SubEthaEdit, or BBEdit and have complete control over my work.


----------



## Veljo (Oct 12, 2004)

I think it's gotten to a stage now where there are so many features that it has just become ridiculous. Most features shouldn't even be there.

As for the auto formatting, it can be turned off, but its a terrible terrible thing. Even finding it is just a task! It's still the word processor I use for compatibility's sake, but it still doesn't touch the PC version.


----------



## Stridder44 (Oct 12, 2004)

I've had my iMac for over 2 years now and all I've ever used is Microsoft Word (on important papers and such - Textedit for minor personal lists, etc.) and I have to say that it is a very nice app. I may not be doing hardcore stuff with it (as hardcore as Word can get..heh..) but for a college student, it's ideal.


By the way...Veljo.....High five for the Alias action you got going


----------



## RGrphc2 (Oct 12, 2004)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> I've had my iMac for over 2 years now and all I've ever used is Microsoft Word (on important papers and such - Textedit for minor personal lists, etc.) and I have to say that it is a very nice app. I may not be doing hardcore stuff with it (as hardcore as Word can get..heh..) but for a college student, it's ideal.



I know same here, i use to right papers, cause everybody uses M$ Word its the standard for papers.  But if i really want to do serious page layout like a classy resume, i'd use QuarkXpress or InDesign.


----------



## soulseek (Oct 13, 2004)

i think its crap, just like any other microsoft product!!!

and its full of security holes !!!
sometimes theyre patches, sometimes there not....

and while you are using Office on your make you are constantly at risk


----------



## Natobasso (Oct 13, 2004)

Microsoft Word is great unless you want to print your document or add photos to it. Hmm, that doesn't leave much else, does it?!! 

I work in the print world and whenever a client tries to give me a word file to use I just say give me raw text and I will reformat it for youit saves tons of time down the road.

Printers hate Microsoft Word for many reasons, one of which is the fact they can't tell which page is printing at any one time (vital in the RIPing process) and things print out differently than they look onscreen and there are no warnings.

In short, Word is an outdated, crappy program in which you must search through several menus just to change the freakin tabs! Ugh. 

But WordPerfect is even worse


----------



## blue&whiteman (Oct 13, 2004)

I don't like office or word much.  appleworks 6 is all I need and is far more efficient.


----------



## Ceroc Addict (Oct 13, 2004)

blue&whiteman said:
			
		

> I don't like office or word much.  appleworks 6 is all I need and is far more efficient.


I own AppleWorks, but I can't honestly say that I use it much for word processing (ironically, because it doesn't seem to do a very good job at opening Microsoft Word documents  - I just use TextEdit and SubEthaEdit).

The only thing I tend to use AppleWorks for is creating/manipulating images (and I probably won't even doing that, once I can afford Macromedia Fireworks).

Kap


----------



## texanpenguin (Oct 13, 2004)

I find Office X very sufficient, except for placement of images and printing.

I'm very happy with it for the most part, even if I only use Word and Excel.

I'd like a more Apple-based Word processor that isn't AppleWorks (which actually went to poo when they bought Claris), but til they make one (which I don't think they'll do for a while. Microsoft's had 20 years to make Word what it is - it's an awful lot of work) I'm more than happy with Office X. Infact I'd like Office 2004 so I could have the audio recording/note-taking features in Lectures where the lecturer doesn't upload notes.


----------



## Viro (Oct 13, 2004)

I've found Word on OS X to be much better and more usable than Word on Windows. I like the floating palette thingy, the ability to export PDFs and the overall look. I've found it to be much cleaner than the Windows version.

The alternative to word would be TeX. My supervisor has been nagging me to use TeX for scientific papers, but I haven't really bothered to shift yet. Will probably do that when it comes to my thesis, but till then it's Word for me .


----------



## MHPb (Oct 13, 2004)

I wrote my dissertation in TextEdit before laying it out properly in Quark.  I hate Word and it's auto-ass-wiping and having said that, Quark 6 is a steaming pile too.  


::love::


----------



## DJ Rep (Oct 13, 2004)

I find word a fine app, I hope it continues to improve and constantly surpass its windows counterpart


----------



## Veljo (Oct 13, 2004)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> By the way...Veljo.....High five for the Alias action you got going



Hehe...w00t @ Alias...

I agree with Stridder44. Though it has its faults and can be extremely annoying at times with its auto-formatting it is a great app.


----------



## callieX (Oct 13, 2004)

I have used word since version 1.0.  Then it was a decent word processor.  Now I agree it is a bloated mess.  I do not like auto formating. I do not like it making a link out of email address's and/or URL's.  I use it for compatibility sake with work.  I have found the think free works for most MS products.  You might lose some fancy formatting and it is only $50.


----------



## Giaguara (Oct 13, 2004)

I chose to install OpenOffice on my work Mac, even when teh company asked me to install M$ Office fully licenced and all. I just can't deal with M$ office. I spent enormous time finding the PIDs of the zombie processes, which must have been left by M$ office as since I don't have that installed now, I don't have any zombies running either.
But I'm prolly the only one with open office here.


----------



## Zammy-Sam (Oct 13, 2004)

I kinda have to work with ms word just to keep the compatibility to the windoze users here on work. But right now I am still on office vs. x and not office 2004. It was very buggy on my system for certain tasks and I just kicked it from my disk. Maybe this was an issue with the test version but I believe microsoft is not that stupid to release a completely messed test version while their full version is much more stable.


----------



## nojay (Oct 13, 2004)

The issue of cross-compatability will always be a consideration because of Office's dominanace -- regardless of the program's quality.  That's just reality right now.  Whenever we share files in our workplace, it's either in *.pdf or in an office format.

Remember that Office is a HUGE cash cow for M$.  Its in their interest to update and "improve" it every few years with features most people don't need, and sell it to enterprises as must-have software.  For the average user, it usually makes the sofware somewhat less stable and exponentially harder to use.  Is the world really better off with any of the upgrades to office since 1997?

With that being said, I find WordPerfect version 6 to be the best windows word processor because of the customizability and because later features amounted to bloat.  For the Mac, I'm like Zammy -- I 'm sticking with Office v.X.


----------



## MacMuppet (Oct 13, 2004)

Its also worth mentioning that many people grow up with Ms Word, its very common in schools etc, and most non-techy people don't like change. I remember being surprised how intuitive it was to use a browser other than IE for the first time (years ago now) - I think a lot of people assume a different program would work differently and need operating differently, and so don't bother finding out. After all Firefox looks different but after five minutes you have no more questions do you?


----------



## soulseek (Oct 13, 2004)

i grew up with Word Perfect. an app far more superior than ms word (on the pc)...
but thanx to microsoft and their tricks its been pushed aside....
hope same thing doesnt happen with OpenOffice !!!


----------



## Zammy-Sam (Oct 13, 2004)

It's hard to say which app is superior or inferior. I was also working with wordperfect and winword and I prefered winword. However, microsoft did kinda push wordperfect out of the market but I think this comes along with the law of nature: survival of the fittest. Now, microsoft is getting weaker and weaker and hopefully openoffice will be the winner of this competition. In the end, all we care is good software at a decent price. So, we'll always be the beneficiaries..


----------



## mindbend (Oct 13, 2004)

I accept Word as a must have simply for cross platform cooperation. Sure, I can open Word docs in TextEdit, but with varying success. More importantly, the single best feature of Word (revision tracking) requires Word. 

Most of the time I just use TextEdit for "word processing". I'm either high end or low end. TextEdit for taking notes, lists, etc. or InDesign for true page layout. Word is overkill for my low end needs, and not an option for high end needs, so I avoid it as much as possible.

However, for several projects, I do love the revision tracking in Word, although presumably other Word processors do this as well. Unfortunately, Word is a juggernaut and I will be using it forever I'm sure. All my big clients use it and that's simply not going to change. Ever. So I'm stuck.

I am, however, still using Office vX version 1 (didn't even bother with any of the updaters) and will not upgrade until I absolutely have to for some reason.


----------



## wstotler (Oct 13, 2004)

This is interesting: "The vast majority of computer buyers still seem (to me) to base their computer purchasing decision around whether the computer will run Microsoft Word (or rather, Microsoft Office)."

I would argue that for most users, the applications *are* the computer.

And, the applications that most users use on a regular basis are Internet Explorer, Outlook (or the equivalent), and Word. (With Excel maybe, a bit, to create and manage lists--in my experience, about 70% of Excel users use it to generate and sort lists and make numbered tables. They may use SUM every once and a while. But that's another story for another time.)

If, from a user's point of view, the computer *is* its applications then the applications are the major factor in a buying decision.

(This is especially true if a user understands a little bit about how to use some applications and just knows that "faster and newer" hardware is better than whatever they have now.)

A user buys Word (document creation), Internet Explorer (Web browsing), and Outlook (E-mail tool). 

It's not a case of "I need a faster computer because it will run my applications better." 

It is a case of "I want Word to run faster and better so I need a faster computer." 

Or, more likely, "My computer died so I need another computer so I can use Internet Explorer."

Get what I mean?  It may seem like splitting hairs, but I think it makes a difference in terms of the question you asked. 

Think about it this way: Assume most users are *not* technically sophisticated by the standards you could apply to mostly everyone in this forum. 

This means that they may not know how to make favorites or bookmarks but rely on "auto-complete" URL addresses to get to favorite places. (That feature is "hiding"--not "listed" but "hiding"--in a menu or behind a button.)

They have a hard time with the concept of filesystems and folders--and where things "live" on a hard drive. "Opening" a file causes anxiety--how do I "open" it, what do I open it with, where do I find it, how do I find it now that this window is open? Etc. 

When to single-click and when to double-click causes an issue. (The concept of selecting vs. opening something can baffle.)

Right- (or ctrl-) clicking to get a menu for options does not occur to them in most cases, even if they have done it before.

What is a hard drive? The beige box, my computer, that's sitting here is the hard drive, right?

They only think about whatever application is open at that very moment and presented to them. (The concept of multiple programs being open at once and cutting-and-pasting between them is foreign. Switching from one program to another is foreign to most.)

Conceptually, the average computer user is really an application user and he or she only knows a few applications and very "limited" (in terms of the application's true scope) things to do within those applications. That's the use case, really.

So, back to Word. 

Word lets a person open a blank page--like a piece of paper, which the user probably understands and he or she has used in the real world--and then the user can type on it, paste pictures into, and play a *little* bit with the font on it. And there are templates available that one can use if one needs to write a letter, etc., and can find the templates. 

Word is a program that probably has more to do with the "real world" in terms of what it does and how it does it than E-mail or IM or Web Browsing. (Conceptually, think about that "doing something with a piece of paper" analogy I made above versus the 100% artificial process of Web Browsing which is NOT the same as "just reading something.")

I can safely claim that most Word users don't use tables, or styles, or bullets. They do spell check and grammar check (and they believe the grammar checker is correct somehow, but ignore it). They print. In portrait mode. They don't highlight items and they don't insert URLs and Hyperlink them. They don't insert Object From File. They do Bold, Italicize, and Underline (although they probably shouldn't do the latter in most cases). They may every now and then choose a piece of clip art--because that comes from a library on the machine. But inserting a photo is tough and doesn't often work as expected, especially when printing. 

Anyway, I've covered WAY too much ground in here and I'm losing my point.

I guess my point is that users don't think of computers as machines upon which software runs. 

To them, the software is the computer. 

And they know about Word--because that's what you write a letter with, print an invoice with, or make some other type of document with. Everybody uses Word. They use Word at work and at school.

Why use anything else, if you're an average user? 

As a user, Word does everything I expect it to do. Open an empty page. Type on the empty page. Save. Send to a friend (if I can find the file from the paper clip button in Outlook because I don't know about the Send As Attachment command off of that hidden submenu in Word). Send to work.

You get what I mean.

And the users who don't know how to use these applications to the fullest aren't in the wrong, either. So, don't think I'm user bashing--because I'm not.

It's dang hard to use a computer from a novice's perspective (and most users *are* novices, especially when compared with the folks that congregate here). There's a lot to keep up with in terms of what to do from a Desktop or Start bar or Dock (if the user knows what to do with them) and there are many, many modes of operation. Almost all based on the context of the task, which is not the same thing as prompting the user what to do next.

And Word may strike a novice as something familiar--it's a piece of paper ready to be used--unlike mostly everything else that is way more complex than that. (Not that Word isn't complex, but it can be very simple if you just launch, type, print, and save.)

Anyway, that was a long way to go just to say I don't think that a user's question "will it run Word" is unusual. It should be expected.


----------



## kainjow (Oct 13, 2004)

I use Word mainly because of college and .doc is the format for the majority of universities. And.. I can get the entire Office suit for $99 which is a great deal, compared to buying just a word processor like Nisus Writer Express (which is good, don't get me wrong) for $60.


----------



## Mat (Oct 13, 2004)

I'm no M$ lover that's for sure, but I have to say that Microsoft Word 2004, is the best word processor I've used.

Just about all the things mentioned above; Auto-formatting, auto-linking e-mails and URLs etc are customisable.  Just like importing your songs into iTunes, you have to tinker to get it right for you.

Overall it depends on what you use it for. I'm at uni and therefore need a full-featured word processor, for me Word does the job.  Also, it depends on what you grew up on.  Like most people I started using Word on PC back in the days of 96, therefore I have a pretty good knowledge of the program, and know how to get it to do what I need/want.

I've previously owned Office 98, 2001, X and now 2004, and it is tops.


----------



## chemistry_geek (Oct 13, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> i grew up with Word Perfect. an app far more superior than ms word (on the pc)...
> but thanx to microsoft and their tricks its been pushed aside....
> hope same thing doesnt happen with OpenOffice !!!



I've used WordPerfect 5.0 and 5.1 for the PC at a hospital I used to work for when I was financing my college education.  It was very fast, stable, and never crashed.  The *ONE* feature that I liked most about it was *REVEAL CODES* that would reveal ALL formatting codes in the document.  Sometimes when I'm working in M$ Word, I can't find where I did a formatting change in the document and then it's messed up.  M$ Word is a good product, feature-wise, but it's features are poorly organized.  M$ has a horrendous resposibility of trying to create a wordprocessor for the masses, teachers, administrators, lawyers, scientists, engineers, secretaries, high school students, college students, etc...  Whether or not you like it, M$ has a significant influence on corporate America, I certainly hope not around the world, but try working with recruiters in America when you're seeking employment; you had beeter submit your resume in M$ Word format if you ever hope of being employed.  Recruiters will not work with you if you cannot submit a resume in the Borg Word format.  I use M$ Word because I have to, not necessarily because I want to; like I said before it's not a bad program, just poorly organized; I've never lost any work when using it.

I also have and use OpenOffice 1.1.2; it works pretty well, but isn't quite there yet.  When I apply formatting changes to documents on screen, like bold and italics, I cannot see the text in those styles even though they exist.  When I print to PDF, then I can see the formatted text.  It's just those few bugs that make it unusable for major projects, like me writing my masters thesis now.  Incidentally, the IEEE organization has suggested making the OpenOffice Word/Writer program an open *standard* for word processor document formats; it was on Slasdot.org last week.


----------



## Mills (Oct 14, 2004)

Word's fine and essential for the most part for use at university, but for anything remotely important LaTeX is much more preferable to me. The difference in quality really is noticeable and welcome for simple essays, let alone anything with equations and numbers in it- Equation editor isn't even close.


----------



## fryke (Oct 14, 2004)

Gotta agree with MindBend: TextEdit and InDesign.  I'm sure there are real Word artists that can master the beast. However, I'm just not the Office person. I'm a writer (TextEdit is _more_ than good enough for that task!) and a graphics designer/layouter. And I wouldn't want to layout my books in Word. (Eek!) ;-)


----------



## chevy (Oct 14, 2004)

FrameMaker (Adobe) is by far my favorite for large documentation and for technical documentation.... but sooo expensive !


----------



## nojay (Oct 14, 2004)

Chemistry_geek nailed it with why old versions of WP still have an appeal to many of us.  The reveal codes feature is so simple, yet powerful.  Why others haven't adopted its functionality is beyond me.


----------



## Durbrow (Oct 14, 2004)

Is anyone using LyX or TeXShop for long documents rather than MS Word? It seems TeX/LaTeX is becoming less common...


----------



## rubicon (Oct 15, 2004)

I use Office 2004 for the Mac - just upgraded.  It ensures I have near 100% compatibility with everyone else.  Although Word is bulky and I don't use many of the features, I'm hesitant to switch.

It's my understanding that OpenOffice runs under X - I want it native to Aqua.  Not sure if AppleWorks has compatibility with Office files but do I want to bother?  You can find the Office 2004 Student/Teacher Edition at most retailers for $150.  Don't forget that we're all students in life and many of us are also teachers.


----------



## Will_Richo (Oct 15, 2004)

I now use Word and Excel on my mac. Both seem to do the job just fine. More functions than i need so far. But i can use my logo's etc on letter heads easier than in text.

Thumbs up from me.


----------



## tuqqer (Oct 15, 2004)

I like Word. Been using Word since the Office 96 version. Its current 2004 version needs to be sped up some on start up, but I'm guessing that will be fixed shortly. 

My thoughts: 

Text Editing apps are now as plentiful as apples on a tree. Choose the one that works for you and run with it. 

How to use Word so it works:
1. Turn off auto formatting. Super simple to do, and once it's done, it's a non issue. 
2. Set up five or six styles with some keys as shortcuts. F1 for the basic paragraph that you want to use/see all of the time. Command-1 through Command-5 for the Header1 through Header5 styles. I'm an author. I write everything in Word, via the Outline view. Once it's 90%, I copy and paste it into InDesign. As others have noted, for super fine control, nothing beats InDesign. I hope Quark dies a quick and painless death soon.

Adding pictures could not be simpler. Drag a picture to a window and drop. Then, immediately double click on the picture to bring up the Format Picture window. Click on the Layout tab; click on "In Front of Text". Close. You can now drag your picture anywhere, and the text will move out of the way. 

Regarding the bloated app comments: as far as size goes, with hard drives of 100 gigs and more, I don't care if an application takes up a few hundred megabytes. It mattered a lot in 2000. Not any more. And again, if you need a tightly coded app, choose one of the hundred of other text editors. 

My biggest complaint with Word (and it drives me nuts every day) is its "Do you want to replace the existing Normal?" that shows up almost every time you quit. I've asked some of the top Word experts I know what the hell that message means, and none have ever given a clear answer. How it has survived through all the upgrades, I'll never know. I mean, what use is it?? Worse, if you say NO, it brings up a bloody window where *you can save the Normal template* !!! Perhaps this window is important in someway, but Word needs to put in a preference that allows you to never, ever see that window again.


----------



## Cat (Oct 15, 2004)

> Is anyone using LyX or TeXShop for long documents rather than MS Word?


Yes, I am. I use LaTeX for everything, from letters, to (scientific) articles, to project lists, etc. There is no way I will use Word for anything other than opening a .doc file and converting it to .rtf (and from there to LaTeX). 
I need to be able to manipulate my texts in a clear an transparent way, using things like sed and grep, the various teTeX macros and packages and BibTeX.


----------



## Ripcord (Oct 15, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> i think its crap, just like any other microsoft product!!!
> 
> and its full of security holes !!!
> sometimes theyre patches, sometimes there not....
> ...



Hmmm...  Exactly how many security flaws (and, I suppose just as importantly, exploits) have been found/released for Word v.X?


----------



## Ripcord (Oct 15, 2004)

chevy said:
			
		

> FrameMaker (Adobe) is by far my favorite for large documentation and for technical documentation.... but sooo expensive !



...And no longer available for the Mac since we seem to have a difficult time keeping applications on the platform.


----------



## Oscar Castillo (Oct 16, 2004)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> Microsoft Word is great unless you want to print your document or add photos to it. Hmm, that doesn't leave much else, does it?!!
> 
> I work in the print world and whenever a client tries to give me a word file to use I just say give me raw text and I will reformat it for youit saves tons of time down the road.
> 
> Printers hate Microsoft Word for many reasons, one of which is the fact they can't tell which page is printing at any one time (vital in the RIPing process) and things print out differently than they look onscreen and there are no warnings.



I also work in the print industry and I've found Word has and is being used as a frontend to many document creation software.  The alternatives are usually lacking in features and awkward to use at times even for simple tasks.
As for RIPping I wouldn't use Word for that it's limiting.


----------



## ApeintheShell (Oct 16, 2004)

I use Appleworks because it is an easy to use word processor with the essentials available upon startup and the extras tucked away to explore via Help. 
Microsoft Word is the word processor that would not die.


----------



## dave17lax (Oct 17, 2004)

My chosen profession is in the video game industry, and word is ubiquitous, though hated by most. I think the main thing is that everyone knows that everyone else will have it, so it makes it easy to send between people and companies. The funny thing is that if you are sending a resumé, you damn well better send a pdf, because of differences in fonts and formattig, etc. One thing I like so much about OS X is built in pdf creation in any app that needs it. I am unaware of an easier solution when using windows.
As for favorite apps, here's a short list. 
For "word processing" i.e. documents, papers, etc...Word for OS X or XP.

For text editing on the mac, BBedit or Tex-Edit.

For text editing on windows, EditPlus.


I find that Word on mac has always been better. I really wish that they would fix the tab key and it's crazy auto-formatting. Also as others have said, the fact that importing a picture can make you spend lots of time reformatting everything, only to lose it all again when you paste in another paragraph.


----------



## Oscar Castillo (Oct 17, 2004)

dave17lax said:
			
		

> As for favorite apps, here's a short list.
> For "word processing" i.e. documents, papers, etc...Word for OS X or XP.
> 
> For text editing on the mac, BBedit or Tex-Edit.
> ...



I have never tried BBedit or Tex-Exit, but I'm looking for a decent text editor on the Mac, so I been meaning to try those.  As for the PC, the best editor I've come across is UltraEdit.  A day doesn't go by without me using it.  No Mac version though.


----------



## fryke (Oct 17, 2004)

And no need, either, because BBEdit will fulfill your editing dreams. Been around for 8 versions and many years. If you don't _hate_ the GUI but still appreciate a good text editor, you'll love BBEdit if you give it the chance.


----------



## bobbo (Oct 18, 2004)

I find it quite annoying, however, EXCEL IS MUCH WORSE. Making graphs in it is a JOKE. UGH.

Yet, AppleWorks manages to not be quite better. It's one of the most outdated and one of my least favorite Apple Software products. It lacks many good features and some advanced stuff is a little hard to use. But it is nice and simple.

Corel WordPerfect is good, I like it, but it doesn't run on a Mac. 

That leaves me using mostly TextEdit - nice, clean, quick - and Appleworks or Word when I have to - AppleWorks if I'm not editing it at school.


----------

