# Install Panther on Older G3 System!



## Kayle12 (Jun 23, 2005)

Hello Everyone,

   Could someone please lead me to some assistance in this problem that I'm having!


I own a Mac Mini, and I have found an older G3 system. I would like to put Panther on it!

I have a retail version (10.3.0)

Here is what happens (See Screenshot 1)

It have tried this 3 times, and it just continually tells me to restart the computer. It shows the boot screen for about 30 seconds, then shows this screen. 

The System Specs are as follows:

233MHz G3
64MB Ram
4Gb Harddrive
CD-Rom, Zip

According to the requirements of Panther, you need a G3 processor.


Thanks,

Kayle


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## RacerX (Jun 23, 2005)

Well, you are trying to install Mac OS X 10.3 on unsupported hardware (a Beige G3). You tried installing on a volume which is greater than 8 GB (which needs to be at the front of the hard drive) and you partitioned the drive using a PC application which most likely didn't install the drivers for Mac OS 9 to see the drive.

It is a little hard to help much more. You have been given good information on the other forum while at the same time make some very questionable choices (i.e. using a PC app to format and partition a Mac drive).

You have been told what to do (use the Mac OS 9 install CD and Disk Utility to format and partition the drive), you just need to do it.

After that you can follow the instructions for XPostFacto (without trying to use any PC alternative software  ), and you should be able to install 10.3.

But, I can tell you right now, you are going to run into some issues with the onboard graphics with your Beige G3. I would suggest looking into a video card... a Mac video card (again, no substituting PC stuff for Mac stuff or your just looking for trouble). If you don't want to spend much, I would suggest finding an ATI Rage 128 (with 16 MB of VRAM) video card on ebay... it needs to be both *Mac* and PCI.

With that, 10.3 should run very nicely on that system.


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## mrudes (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi! I'm using Mac OS 10.3.9, it's a silver laptop, just a couple months old, and Classic Mode, the one that runs Mac OS 9 applications and documents and stuff, stopped working. It worked perfectly for a long time, and then, maybe a month and a half ago, I had some problems with my wireless print server and printer, and it was a big long thing to get that back up and running (something about IP addresses, and the computer wouldn't recognize it, I didn't really understand)...but after that, OS 9 would not start. When I click on a classic application, the bar "Starting Classic Mode" appears, but it freezes, and nothing happens. I remember looking in the help menu and it said something about changing IP addresses could affect Mac OS 9... ::sleepy:: how could that happen? IIf anyone could help me, I would so greatly appreciate it!!! Thank you! ::love::


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## Cheryl (Jun 24, 2005)

Are you using static IP address? 
Are you using a Linksys hub/router?


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## tumbleguts (Jun 24, 2005)

I think "RacerX" said it all...

Although Mac OS X can (to a certain degree) run on almost any Mac, Apple decided to only support G3 computers with USB ports. This included all the Macs designed and built since Steve Jobs came back to power at Apple.  This was a marketing decision - so the reality is that OS X usually runs very well on a beige G3. "XPostFacto" is a niffty little program that modifies the boot rom to trick the OS X installer into thinking that the computer has in-built USB. But as you have found out there are a few things you need to do...

> Create an 8MB partition at the front (top) of the drive. The partition cannot be any larger than 8MB (some found it was safer to make it 7.5MB),
otherwise you will have severe disk problems. 

> Use XPostFacto to run the OS X install disks. Once OS X is installed it is usually very stable on a beige G3. 

> Upgrade your G3. From experience with using Mac OS X on a 333mhz beige G3, you are going to definately have graphics/video trouble. The problem is that OS X is a visually intensive operating system. I solved my problem with a cheap flashed PCI Radeon 7000 card 64MB (enabled 'quartz' with Quartz Extreme). Another thing is to get as much RAM as possible - trust me it helps... especially because of this problem:

Lastly, a word of caution. The worst thing about the beige G3's is their frightfully slow IDE interface - 33/ATA. No matter how fast everything else is it's really going to hamper performance. My beige 333mhz tower came stock with a 9GB IBM SCSI HD and an ATTO SCSI card (ultra wide) which was slightly better - 40MB/sec. So if you plan to use this G3 for any type of computer work you might want to seriously consider a PCI controller card - either SCSI or ATA.


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## mrudes (Jun 25, 2005)

Cheryl said:
			
		

> Are you using static IP address?
> Are you using a Linksys hub/router?



Yes! A Linksys hub/router! Exactly! I can tell this place is definitely going to be the place where I can figure out how to fix this darn farnit machine!!! Yes, I switched to cable internet access about a year+ ago, and Time Warner installed a Linksys hub/router (I'm not sure which, the first one looked like a big shark's fin, and the new one [the had to replace the old one] is just a black box with blinking green lights...). Whether it's a hub or a router, the cable from the wall goes into the Linksys 'thingy,' then the 'thingy' wirelessly sends cable internet access to my computer, my brother's computer, and through ethernet, my Mom's computer. It even gives me broadband internet connection for my PS2...it splices, it dices, and it breaks down every freakin' month! (oops, didn't mean to curse, sorry!^^)...anyway, yes, it's a Linksys hub/router, and through a seperate device called a Belkin Printer Server, which I think hooks up to the Linksys machine, I was able to print things wirelessly, which is important for me because I'm severly disabled and basically live life in bed except when going to UCLA as a college student...
 ...as to the static IP address, I have an inkling that I use that too...
   I think this might help...a while ago, the printer stopped working wirelessly, something about it wouldn't recognize the IP address...so a tech guy from the government program that bought the computer for me, he came out and 'jiggled' with the darn thing for an hour or two, and finally got it to work by plugging the printer directly into the computer and plugging the print server into the router. Actually, maybe that doesn't help, sorry! To the best of my knowledge, I think I use a static IP address. I think it is 192.168.0.10. But I'm pretty sure that just deals with the print server. 
   I know this was kinda long, sorry...  ...but to recap: I'm using a relatively new G4 silver laptop (in "About This Mac," it says "Processor: 1.5 GHz PowerPC G4" and "Memory: 512 MB DDR SDRAM"), Mac OS 10.3.9, Linksys Broadband router/hub accessed through a wireless Airport card, Belkin Print Server, a solid HP printer; used to be able to use Mac Classic and open OS 9 stuff without a problem, now it stalls at "Starting Classic Mode;" printer stopped working a while ago and it took some fiddling with internet settings (involving IP addresses) to get it back working...yikes! That's a lot of info, but I hope it helps!!! 
   Ummmm....there's probably one other thing I should mention, though I really don't think it is the problem...I've been doing some downloading lately, looking into some ROMS for old Nintendo 64 games that I own, like Super Mario 64 and Legend of Zelda stuff, so I've downloaded a bunch of programs and files and stuff...could this be some kind of virus or something? Just mentioning it...
   If you, Cheryl, or anyone, could help me untangle this mess, I would be extremely grateful and indebted! Thanks!!


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## Cheryl (Jun 25, 2005)

First, 

There is no virus that will affect your connections. So don't worry about that. 

Next: 

1.  Locate the Mac OS 9 (Classic) "System Folder", which should not be confused with the Mac OS X folder named only "System". 
2. Locate the Servers folder. Drag the Servers folder to the Trash. 
3. Start Classic again. Classic should start up as expected. 

And: 

 Use static IP addressing instead of DHCP
To find out how to set up the Linksys check here for the directions. You will need your specific model number. 
http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linksys.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=NpU33SIh

If that does not work: 

Try updating the firmware on your Linksys hardware. You may download an update from the Linksys Firmware Upgrades page (http://www.linksys.com/download/firmware.asp).

Firmware updates are available for these Linksys devices, which may be associated with the symptoms you described: 
BEFW11S4 EtherFast Wireless AP + Cable/DSL Router w/4-Port Switch
BEFW11p1 EtherFast Wireless Access Point + Cable/DSL Router w/PrintServer
BEFSR81 EtherFast Cable/DSL Router with 8-Port Switch


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## mrudes (Jun 25, 2005)

First of all, thank you, Cheryl, for being so helpful and taking the time to help me to try and get this darn thing working again!
   Ok, the bad news is that the simple, first fix-it method you proposed didn't work. Sigh...I went to Macintosh HD, then to System Folder (with a 9 on the front of it, meaning OS 9, I would think), then found the Servers folder, and although there wasn't anything in it, I deleted it anyway. Oh well, when does the easy route work anyway, lol!?
   Ok, on to the more complicated ones...I'm a good computer person, but when it comes to fixing bugs and behind-the-scenes techy stuff, I'm no good at all! I'm sending the info you've given me to the tech guy that helped set up the computer in the first place, since it's his responsibility to make sure the computer keeps on working...he sent me to the forums, hoping we could find another solution besides wiping the drive or something like that...anyway, I've passed on what you just sent to him, to see if he knows how to switch the print server from DHCP to a static IP address. I know when we first set up the print server (which was purchased separately than the router, it's not an all-in-one machine or something), he set it up using DHCP, I think because it was easier, but I'm not sure. 
   So I'll get back to you when he gets back to me......But from the ones you listed, I think the Linksys is the "BEFW11S4 EtherFast Wireless AP + Cable/DSL Router w/4-Port Switch," but only because the other two didn't seem right. I can't get out of my bed right now to check the back of the machine or anything, so I'm not 100% certain, but that would be my guess. I went ot the website you gave to download new Firmware, but then it said that whatever I downloaded would wipe away all previous settings, so I became hesitant and, again, wanted to defer to the tech guy (whose name is Russell, I really should stop calling him 'the tech guy,' lol). 
   Ok, well, thank you, thank you, thank you! Hopefully, with your help, I can get OS 9 up and running again!

thanks again!

Matt

p.s.

Why is it that an IP address could screw up Classic Mode? How are they related? Is it like a bug that the Mac people didn't catch or something?^^


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## Cheryl (Jun 25, 2005)

mrudes said:
			
		

> p.s.
> 
> Why is it that an IP address could screw up Classic Mode? How are they related? Is it like a bug that the Mac people didn't catch or something?^^



Good question and I don't have an answer to that. Sorry


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## CharlieJ (Jun 26, 2005)

Kayle12 said:
			
		

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Could someone please lead me to some assistance in this problem that I'm having!
> 
> ...



Hi Kayle,
Please Note there are no screenshots


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## CharlieJ (Jun 26, 2005)

more ram probably


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## Cheryl (Jun 26, 2005)

C.J., 

You hit it. That was something I think we all overlooked. Kayle needs more RAM installed to at least 256 Mb to install OS X.


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## Canada-Man (Jun 28, 2005)

You need more than 64 MB RAM. My Panther box says:

Requirements

Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3, G4, or G5 processor; built-in USB; and 128 MB of physical RAM.

The original PowerMac G3 can be upgraded to receive up to 768 MB RAM so I bet it would run pretty well with that and xPostFacto (which I haven't tried).


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