# Justin Timberlake



## habilis (May 4, 2003)

Is a coporate kiss-ass darling and anybody that thinks otherwise is a brainwashed dope.


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## JetwingX (May 4, 2003)

...yeah... your point?


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## Arden (May 4, 2003)

I second Jet.

Jet... new logo?


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## habilis (May 4, 2003)

My point is that the music world is getting consumed and overrun by generic homogenized corporate pre-packaged idols. Nobody writes their own music, and apparently all you need is a pretty face and a tight ass to be a musician anymore.


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## Androo (May 4, 2003)

hahaha ur right...  he sucks.....
I HATE FAKE MUSIC! all done on computer..... fake bass.... fake drums.... they even fix up his voice a bit.....
Fake music!
Rock: real instruments, real singing, really good.... REAL MUSIC!


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## mr. k (May 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by habilis _
> *My point is that the music world is getting consumed and overrun by generic homogenized corporate pre-packaged idols. Nobody writes their own music, and apparently all you need is a pretty face and a tight ass to be a musician anymore. *



what can you do?  the music industry plays to what people will buy - and right now the whole pretty face and tight ass thing does a good job of convincing the public to buy...  but things change - the music industry along with everything else.  there are still plenty of musicians who write their own music, and im sure some of them are well known, but whats one person writing music when there are other people who can help them write it?  mabye there are musicians who just like to perform - and musicians who just like to write music - so when the two musicians get together one can write music and stay offscreen and create while the other works with what he is given and draws attention to himself.  there are different ways of doing things, and just because you don't write all your music doesn't mean you are just a front for someone elses words.  just because 'all you need is a pretty face and a tight ass to be a musician' is becoming more true doesn't mean there is something wrong with music, it just means that the industry is changing and you dont like certain kinds of music. ok. why not delete this negative thread and start a thread about a tye of music or a record label which produces a good feeling in you, produces something you like, and quit complaining.  no offense is mean to any persons by this post - and please dont take offense.  this is just a friendly response, a different perspective.  good day!


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## habilis (May 4, 2003)

I'm just trying to draw a comparison between the mainstream singer-songwriters of the past  to what is mainstream today. I guess the problem is that I _am_ comparing them when there is no comparison. Singer-songwriters are *artists*, Brittany Spears and the Backstreet Boys are *actors*, or performers at best.


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## adambyte (May 4, 2003)

Ah yes, I am here to add fuel to the fire, for, I too, detest the performers of our day who do not create. This kind of incomplete performer is also idolized... (sorry for the pun) on American Idol. It makes me sick that the record companies pull this crap, but hey, the vast majority of people are fake, and like fake music... whatcha gonna do?

Ooh, also.... Un-singer-songwriters have always been around.... anybody remember eh...what's his name..... Frank Sinatra? I don't think he wrote any of his own music. So this is not a new idea; capitalizing on someone who just performs and gives an image.... though, I dunno if Frank Sinatra has a tight ass, I've never checked.... and I don't think I want to.

I think we are what are called "purists."


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## ebolag4 (May 4, 2003)

As a musician myself, I agree with most of the sentiments above. I do think there is a difference here between Ol' Blue Eyes and Justin Ihaveafakelastname. I heard Sinatra in person, and he had true talent. He sang a song acapella without any amplification or tweeking, and it was great. Timberfake, on the other hand, probably couldn't sing in the shower unless his voice was digitized.

Do I think that the singer-songwriter is a step above just a singer, I think so. But you have to acknowledge that there are a lot of musicians who write their own stuff, but can't sing it, so they hope someone with a voice will. There are singer who can't write (I'm in this group) who need people to write for them.

I think there is a place for both in the business, but I do wish the Justins and Britneys of the world would fade away. Tell that to the teens who buy their junk though.


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## Inline_guy (May 4, 2003)

I don't it.  What is wrong with his music.  Because he does not write it, and it is not "real" as you say?  Music can do many things.  Teach, inspire, educate, or it can just entertain.  And if an artist does not  change the world like some would say the Beetles did, does it mean it has not value?  I think not.  Some music is good to dance to, and does not really say anything deep, but can keep you entertained.  I think the world is big enough for all types of music.  Really.

What I don't get about people is that that bitch and moan about how "produced" music is.  But apparently they don't feel the same way about movies.  People and I am sure some of you are guilty of watching movies because of the amazing effects, but the movie says nothing.  What's the difference.  They are both art.

There is room for all types of movies and music in the world.  And I for one will enjoy all of it I can, with out fear of being called brainwashed dope!

Matthew


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## habilis (May 4, 2003)

hey, I never said you're a brainwashed dope if you *listen* to it, just that you're a brainwashed dope if you think Timberfake(I owe ebolag4 for that one) and his ilk are some sort of talented musicians on par with Bob Dylan.


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## ebolag4 (May 4, 2003)

Let's put it this way. I have taught in a private school for 8 years along with what I do as a musician. I have students that will admit that the only reason they like Timberfake is because he's a "hottie." I've ventured to use logic on these young ladies to no avail. They will gladly say that the only reason they like him is the image, not the music. Yes, there are some who like him just for the music he sings, but I wonder if the vast majority only like him because of his facade.

I wonder how many less fans Britney and Christina would have if they started wearing more clothing?

We have the same sort of phenomenon going on within the Christian music realm. There are great indie bands that are writing and performing their own stuff, but hardly anyone knows who they are. Then, pretty soon, a "bigger" band comes along and covers the "smaller" band's music and then the whole Christian world gives accolades to the "bigger" group. What a rip-off.


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## anerki (May 5, 2003)

Then why if you don't like the music, listen to it? I listen to many music, many of which doesn't have voices in it. Techno for example. Difficulty to create Techno: Practically 0 except for some songs/DJs, still if you go to Kozzmozz you're there with 10000 other people having fun to it, if you join in you can really enjoy it. You have to be open to that stuff. I used to hate R&B, like it pretty much now. Why? Because I can enjoy myself with other people (in this style, women) with this music. I can do it otherwise too, but it's fun with music like that. I love Bach, because it's the most complicated stuff ever written, no discussion about that.

My point is, you can enjoy a form of music if you know how, if you still can't, or just don't want to, then don't complain about it, just don't listen to it. It's incredibly easy to be negative about something, why not try being constructive for a change?

Grtz,
.anerki


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## Arden (May 5, 2003)

I don't like Timberfake, 'NStink or any big pop "sensations" because A) they don't write their own music, B) they don't play their own instruments, C) they sometimes don't use their own voices, and D) they make annoying commercials, host/judge stupid/lame shows, and just get into every corner of every medium they can.  I like hard rock and consider myself fairly anti-pop, but I do believe that some pop has a good musical basis.  I'm anti the "pop" part, which of course stands for popular, and I don't like people getting too popular and invasive, even rock bands.  Plus, I think people should write their own music and play their own instruments, not get their multi-trillion dollar label to hire 50 writers to write a song for them.  (It took 11 people to write "Jenny From the Block!"  How sad is that?)

I'm also anti-McDonald's and AOL.


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## habilis (May 5, 2003)

anerki: in no way am I denegrating electronica. I'm an avid listener to the more ambient and downtempo / experimental stuff. A lot of which comes out of Europe, like most of the guys on Warp and Skam records. Electronica constists of about 70% of my listening. The dj guys are not fake in any way; they spin discs of other peoples stuff and make cool mixes, nothin phoney there. Autechre, Plaid, Aphex Twin, Red Snapper, Brothomstates, BOC, Pete Namlook, HIA and the likes are not fake or cheesy in any way; They all program, write and compose their own tracks. 

Anyway, what I had in mind was the ultra-icons in America and their over zealous commercialization. It's the audio-industrial complex over here in the states and I gotta tell you, I'm not to thrilled about Europe's crowning export, the Spice Girls - although I don't mind looking at them. I swear if I hear that "If you wanna be my lover" song again I'm gonna be on the roof the Empire State building with an Einfield sniper rifle...


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## monktus (May 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *hahaha ur right...  he sucks.....
> I HATE FAKE MUSIC! all done on computer..... fake bass.... fake drums.... they even fix up his voice a bit.....
> Fake music!
> Rock: real instruments, real singing, really good.... REAL MUSIC! *


Regardless of said Justin debate (I do appreciate good pop but I heard some of the new album - bland, mediocre, generic), electronic music can be just as creative and interesting as music made with live instruments. My first musical love is rock, I always go back to Pearl Jam, Jimi, Zep, Stones, Rage, Soundgarden etc etc, whatever I've been listening to. But the music that I listen to has broadened hugely (that an adjective?  ) over the past few years. I got into hiphop when I was working full time the other year, last year I got into metal and drum and bass, this past year I've been listening to a lot of strange electronic stuff (Squarepusher etc) as well as discovering loads of bands of various genres like Sleater-Kinney, Bikini Kill, Le Tigre, Mclusky, Pavement, Tool, Roni Size, The Herbaliser, Mr Scruff, Björk, Weezer, Cornelius, Emperor, Kyuss, Electric Wizard, Apex Twin, The Coup, The Pixies, and lots of other music. I still love my rock but I've met a lot of new people these past couple of years who have really expanded my horizons.

So try and put aside any predujices and forget about genres, you'll discover that some music you'd think you would hate is actually really good!


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## habilis (May 6, 2003)

This actually isn't a techno/electronica bashing thread, but if it were I'd personally digitize myself, go flying at light speed through the cable and data lines until I find your terminal, then re-integrate my fist as it comes smashing through your flat-screen LCD monitor and hits your nose, then I'd say "How's THAT for analog vs. digital?". I've been known to do this scores of times. I know it sounds a little far fetched, and you might be laughing at me right now, but I'm giving all you would-be techno haters out there a fair warning.

In all seriousness though, I'm a staunch defender of electronic music. I produce it myself and I know the difficulties and incredible skill you need to command it. I closely compare modern intelliegent electronica(NOT the 4-on-the-floor Club stuff) to Classical music in the way you need to be able to command all the instruments and compose.


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## drustar (May 6, 2003)

i'm pretty damn sure that i'm gonna get flame for this but don't hate on justin timberlake because the guy is so damn successful.

it's harsh enough that the guy has to deal with flamers that just plain hate him.

oh btw, jt wrote all of his songs.


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## ebolag4 (May 6, 2003)

Not to split hairs (though I probably am), Justin did write his songs, along with help from others. Check the credits for every song on "Justified," and you will find at least one other name credited along with his on each and every song. Let's give credit where credit is due. I'm glad that he has the talent to both write and sing his music, that takes him up a notch in my book. I can't do that. BUT, I also know that even though I can sing, I'll never be anything like Justin because I'm not a "hottie." Most of the little teenie boppers that buy his stuff would never listen to him again if he suddenly woke up ugly one morning. If he still had all his vocal/musical talent, but not his image, he would probably lose it all. The true test would be to see if he would snap back from it and re-invent/re-market himself into something people would buy. (And before anyone flames back, yes, even ugly people can and do make it in the biz.)


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## anerki (May 7, 2003)

Justin Timberlake: I like the Michael Jackson-ish sound it has to it

Techno: Je t'adore


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## serpicolugnut (May 7, 2003)

is having a tough time, partly because of piracy, but mainly because they really don't have any compelling artists anymore. The music industry has shifted it's mindset from developing talent to moving product. Instead of taking the time to let an artist grow and develop and audience, the biz now opts to take these homogonized barbie dolls, put them in the studio, and market them on TRL to the sheep with too much disposable income and not enough discriminating taste.

The problem for the biz is that the majority of fans of NSync, Brittany, etc - are now a few years older, and are moving on to greener music pastures. The bands they listened to as kids are so 15 minutes ago, and they want nothing to do with it.

The biz goes through these cycles all the time. In the late 70's, Disco was stagnating and New Wave was catching on. By the early 80's, Disco was dead and New wave was the defining sound for pop.

In the early 90's, hair metal pop bands had enjoyed a successful 4-5 year run, and the industry was in another slump. Enter Nirvana. The whole "modern rock" explosion takes place. 

It's a continuous cycle. It's just were a little bit overdue for our next big thing to come and make the industry interesting again.

Oh, and yes - Justin Timberlake is a dolt. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he'd be better served trying to make it in films than music.


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## habilis (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> Oh, and yes - Justin Timberlake is a dolt. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he'd be better served trying to make it in films than music.


Oh, that's an absolute certainty that he'll soon be a "distinguished" actor recieving Oscars.

And if the likes of "musicians" like J-Lo, Queen Latifa, DMX, and Ice Cube aren't enough on the radio, you can look forward to the package-obsessed music industry to be spit them out into your favorite blockbuster moves, thereby robbing os of actual actors that paid their dues. The latest, greatest edition to the pack is METHOD MAN appearing in deodorant commercials!! what a joke.

These people (In particular the Timerfakes) are a commodity, a packaged product.

Is there no escaping this ultra-commercialization? Why are these people constantly recyled? It's so annoying.


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## Inline_guy (May 7, 2003)

I like music.  And I like all kinds of products.  I guess I will call myself a consumer. 

Matthew


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