# Will you stop sharing as a result of RIAA act?



## Dime5150 (Jun 27, 2003)

I was wondering the results of this.


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## JohnnyX12 (Jun 27, 2003)

With 3 whole votes: 2 people said no and 1 said yes.  I personally will be switching to a more secure P2P app or will be reverting back to good old IRC.


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## Lycander (Jun 27, 2003)

I like buying music from Apple's music store. Most of the time they have what I want, faster download, and it helps me sleep easy at night.


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 27, 2003)

I gave my brother the message but I doubt he'll stop sharing until the RIAA arrive on our doorstep.
As for me, all my songs are from cd or video game songs "midi"


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## Vyper (Jun 28, 2003)

Well first of all, the RIAA is going to be targetting users with the most "substantial" accounts, meaning like people sharing huge amounts of stuff, and perhaps people with pre-release albums and that sort. So if you're that scared, just don't share if you have that much and you can't be targetted. Also, take note the RIAA is planning on filing thousands of lawsuits, so it getting you would be quite rare, and due to the huge amount of lawsuits their filing, I'd be suprised they got everyone by 2012.


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## voice- (Jun 28, 2003)

My concience is clear. I download what I plan on buying. If it's good enough I order the CD. I use P2P for previews...heck, I'd buy less CDs if I didn't download stuff off of the net...
And I owe it to the community to share back...


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## fryke (Jun 28, 2003)

voice-: Your conscience may be clear as water, problem is that a judge won't care about that.


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## voice- (Jun 28, 2003)

Maybe he won't, but RIAA *should* care about just that...P2P is helping their sales.

Besides, can't touch me...


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## malexgreen (Jun 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dime5150 _
> *I was wondering the results of this. *



I remember several months ago, the company I work for, which is a very large multi billion dollar corporation sent out an email to all of its employees telling them that they should delete all music that they downloaded from the internet using these P2P networks.  If anyone was found with music downloaded on their computer, that they would be fired.

They (the CEO, etc, etc.) mentioned that this change in company policy (before it was as long as it didn't create a "hostile work environment," it was okay) was prompted by the RIAA contacting other companies and telling them that if they caught their employees downloaded bootleg software, that they would not sue the individual, but sue the company for authorizing the use of their computers to steal their music.

After getting this message I immediately deleted all of the music off of my work computer, which was about 10 or so songs from my stash at home.

After hearing about this stuff about the RIAA going after individuals and forcing ISPs to identify customers, got me a little scared, 'cause I know that the government supports punishment of people who steal intellectual property.

So at this point I'm seriously cutting back on Kazaa, Morpheus, until this things settles out.

But this is good news for the Apple Music Store, 'cause when I start feindin', I'mma hit 'em up.


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## Ugg (Jun 28, 2003)

I have never shared with others but I have downloaded.  I never felt good about it and about the time when iTMS came out, I stopped.  I sort of liked being able to preview songs, but since Kazaa doesn't come with genre listings, it really ended up being a huge waste of time!  iTMS works for me, and it will only get better.  I hadn't bought a cd for over 2 years before iTMS, I was sick and tired of all the DRM bull****.  The freebies that I've downloaded, I've replaced with legit purchases from iTMS when they are available.  I will continue to do so, BUT I AM REALLY POed that Don McLean's American Pie is not available as a single.  Oh well, it is not a perfect world, and until I can justify 10 big ones for that entire album, my pirated copy will remain where it is.


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## toast (Jun 29, 2003)

I'm in France, so forget about the RIAA. And besides, arresting people won't kill the P2P networks. I thought these people were paid to find constructive solutions, that's apparently not the case.


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## Dime5150 (Jun 29, 2003)

Not sure but I believe RIAA has international rights over its property, meaning they could file and put motions in courts in other countries.


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## poondoggle (Jun 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ugg _
> *I have never shared with others but I have downloaded.  I never felt good about it and about the time when iTMS came out, I stopped.  I sort of liked being able to preview songs, but since Kazaa doesn't come with genre listings, it really ended up being a huge waste of time!  iTMS works for me, and it will only get better.  I hadn't bought a cd for over 2 years before iTMS, I was sick and tired of all the DRM bull****.  The freebies that I've downloaded, I've replaced with legit purchases from iTMS when they are available.  I will continue to do so, BUT I AM REALLY POed that Don McLean's American Pie is not available as a single.  Oh well, it is not a perfect world, and until I can justify 10 big ones for that entire album, my pirated copy will remain where it is. *



My problem with iTMS is that the songs are only 128kb.  If I am going to pay $1.00 a song they better be CD quality.  Otherwise I'm better off sampling songs via some P2P app and determining whether or not a CD is worth full purchase price.


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## wtmcgee (Jun 30, 2003)

between emusic.com and the iTunes music store, i don't ever feel the need to pirate music (legality notwithstanding).

i'd prefer to pay for music i DL, so all involved can get money for their work.


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## poondoggle (Jun 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wtmcgee _
> *between emusic.com and the iTunes music store, i don't ever feel the need to pirate music (legality notwithstanding).
> 
> i'd prefer to pay for music i DL, so all involved can get money for their work. *



Yeah I've never had a problem with people getting the money they deserve.  The funny thing is that for me being able to get MP3's actually increased my music purchases by 10x.  Before CD Now went under aka I might have been their number one customer.  

I think I purchased over 200 CD's in 2 years.  Many of them was the result of listening to mp3's downloaded.


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## wtmcgee (Jun 30, 2003)

it's still illegal


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## poondoggle (Jun 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wtmcgee _
> *it's still illegal  *



Yes it is.  I think that given the option of allowing me to download music and then buying it versus never getting the money from me because I wouldn't have heard it, they would take the latter, but I do know that in many cases, people are not buying the music and just downloading it and that is definitely wrong from a moral level.  I am not trying to justify anything.  If you follow the letter of the law, then yes it is illegal.


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## Cat (Jul 1, 2003)

Let's put it this way:

Is it illegal to make backup copies? 
Is it illegal to have a separate copy for in your car?
Is it illegal to rip your CD's to mp3 for your iPod?

How do you do that when CD' s are "protected"?

Is it illegal to borrrow an album from your friends?
How long can you keep it befor it becomes "illegal"?
How much can you borrow or lend before it becomes illegal?

Should the RIAA or anyone else have the authority to "spy" on my harddisks? Or network traffic? When do they cross the privacy line?

Is listening to streams illegal?

Haven't we been making copies of vinyl on tape for ages? Or registered songs from the radio?

Can  you find all the music you like in stores? I cannot! Many things I have to look for in second-hand shops or online, because they are not available in stores or even digitally in a "legal way".

My question is: Where do you draw a line?

Most p2p sharers are little fish, with less than 5 GB of songs. Who cares? The problem are the industrial size sharers, that publish material before it is released and that type of thing. Now I can understand that the RIAA and the artists are concerned about them, but they should keep their hands of the little fishes, because they do more harm than good, evne to themselves, by prosecuting those.

I should be free to use the internet and p2p or other programs to share a reasonable amount of data. When I buy a CD or other copyrighted data, I should be free to use it. I have paid my part, I must be able to use it for myself, my family and my close friends: fair, reasonable use. A copy in my car, ripped mp3 on my computer, a compilation for my little bro, etc. p2p goes one step further, but is still in line with this: fair, reasonable use. However, if my "friends" are in the millions and my files reach industrial size, there is a problem. The difficulty is to draw the line. AS long as you respect fair reasonable use I do not think the RIAA should be permitted to intervene.


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## wtmcgee (Jul 1, 2003)

i'm not getting into this.  you guys can try to justify it all you want, but taking what isn't yours is illegal.


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## toast (Jul 1, 2003)

Nobody's telling you the contrary, unless I'm mistaken (I haven't read throught this thread again before writing this).


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## hulkaros (Jul 1, 2003)

All I have to say on this matter is:
--> When Apple iTunes Music Store will become available for all users across the globe (including Windows users too), I think that whoever "shares" music online will be a true criminal, a true poverty stricken or both!


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## Cat (Jul 1, 2003)

> I'm not getting into this.  you guys can try to justify it all you want, but taking what isn't yours is illegal.



If I use the lawnmower my neighbor lent me, I'm not stealing it. If I borrow your CD, I'm not stealing it, you gave me your consent to use it for a certain period of time. I use it, yet I don't own it, neither have I stolen it, right?

The problem is translating this from objects to files. I can share a CD with my roommate, I own it, we both enjoy it. This is fair and reasonable. So what's wrong if I share the CD digitally? The problem is when I share hundreds of CD's to a very large group (hundreds of thousends) anonymous "friends". That is not just illegal, it is also morally wrong. Crossing with red is illegal too, and plain stupid in heavy traffic. Crossing with red in the middle of the night without traffic is another matter. It is still illegal, but I wouldn't dub it morally reprehensible. Same applies to filesharing. As I said above, there is a fine distinction between fair and reasonable use, including sharing online and rightout heavy illegal abuse of p2p networks. I do not think fair and reasonable use is morally reprehensible even if it is literally illegal. By the letter of the law I would need written consent from author and publisher to backup my aging vinyl on tape...


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## Dlatu1983 (Jul 1, 2003)

I was once told that it's illegal to loan your CD's out...the user license technically applies only to the buyer.


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## Giaguara (Jul 1, 2003)

RIAA should also start to sue the radio stations and radio owners.

If you have a radio with a cassette recorder with it, you can record music to a cassette (or to a cd). That's what the kids did in the 1980s when nobody had $ to buy cds. And you can still do that.

A radio broadcasting music is sharing it. Shut down all major radio stations.



Negative side of RIAA doing so would be that if you don't hear something in radio, you rarely know some artist. And this applies especially to the cra.. consumer music (chart). If no one knows who is Ricky Martin or Shakira nobody buys their music, period.


The more i hear of these weird acts of RIAA the more I want to switch to the free alternative : buy a radio and listen to the music FREE and legally.


How are the internet radios considered? As radios, or as file sharing stuff? Is grabbing music from internet radio stream to mp3s or aacs anything different than grabbing the music from 'old fashioned' radio to audio cassettes or cds?


You have the legally free alternative: RADIO.


And radios are sharing all their music with 100s of 1000s of people for free, they really should shut them down.


PS. It was just in Slashdot that the file sharing apps are up 10 % more traffic after the Riaa thingy.


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## myotherpc'samac (Jul 7, 2003)

I was forced to start using Kazaa because of the copy-protected cd's - how do I get them onto my ipod?  I had to go peer-to-peer (until I bought a powerbook, which I have found lets me rip my copy protected cd's no problem, hurrah hurrah).

This is a knee-jerk, last-ditch attempt to cling onto power by the record companies - they have consistently rejected consumer lobbying that CD's are too expensive - and now the backlash begins.  Does anyone have sympathy for Warner?  Not likely - they've been screwing me and the artists alike (excluding chart junk, and frankly they don't deserve a red cent in the majority of cases) for years.

I've never illegally downloaded a song I don't already own.  But the aggressive tactics of the music companies have driven me to a position where I am much more likely to - copy-protected CD's really ARE broken!  I do't pay gb15 for a small silver disk - I pay the money for the right to listen to the music, when and where I like - so preventing me from doing that anywhere except in my living room (the only place I have a CD player) is removing a huge part of the value of the purchase for me.

I agree with the poster above who said that people are paid a lot of money for constructive solutions to problems like this - even WMA and DRM are more appropriate than broken CD's and lawsuits.


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## solrac (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm not worried about the RIAA! I'm a leech! My shared folder option has been turned off since Napster version 1.0! HAHAH! Same thing with water conservation. Since everyone ELSE is taking 2 minute showers, I can take my daily 2 hour shower and rest easy knowing my sole over-use of water is not contributing to the drought. YAY!!!

So now I can download and amass terabytes upon petabytes and yottabytes of MP3s and since my shared folder is off I will NEVER be targeted! HAHHAHA. Time for my shower.....


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## toast (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm a radio leecher, I record things, all day long.


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## Cat (Jul 7, 2003)

Isn't it technically possible to collectively own copyrighted material? We start an association, of which we are all members, and the association, being a juridical person, legally buys the music, which then subsequently can be shared among all the members of the association, just like collectively owning a house or a car.

Could this be possible? I just start a website, a forum, let everyone mail in their subscribtion & requests, register the association, require funds for membership ($1,-), I go out there and legally buy CD's, DVD's, applications, etc. and then distribute them to the members through a P2P network.

How does this collective ownership sound?


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## Giaguara (Jul 7, 2003)

Cat count me in! I want to join your association


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## JohnnyX12 (Jul 7, 2003)

Cat, you should look into the legal side of that!  That's a great idea, as my gf just said "you're going to be rich."    Seriously just charge a couple of bucks, I am so in!


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## hulkaros (Jul 8, 2003)

Well, if Apple iTunes Music Store takes so long to give us music, other than US citizens, I'm down for that "association" too


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## Dime5150 (Jul 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cat _
> *Isn't it technically possible to collectively own copyrighted material? We start an association, of which we are all members, and the association, being a juridical person, legally buys the music, which then subsequently can be shared among all the members of the association, just like collectively owning a house or a car.
> 
> Could this be possible? I just start a website, a forum, let everyone mail in their subscribtion & requests, register the association, require funds for membership ($1,-), I go out there and legally buy CD's, DVD's, applications, etc. and then distribute them to the members through a P2P network.
> ...




Sorry its illegal. hehe. 

I really don't think its legal either to let thousands of people use your house. 
Manager of the area would be concerned


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## Cat (Jul 10, 2003)

Well, IANAL, but collective ownership is legally possible. We can in fact form an association and that association can legally own things. Like corporations own things. IBM, as a corporation, owns its chip-plants. Or like married couples own their homes together. If we were all official members of an association, with the right to represent it and use the collectively owned facilities, we could also collectively own property like music ...

It may not be legal to let thousends of people use my house, but if we were a thousend and bought the house all together, collectively? It would be ours and we all could use it...


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## dixonbm (Jul 10, 2003)

If a legal entity can own copyrighted music in the same way they own property then why are they required to buy software companies to buy multiple copies of their software or purchase a company wide license which is undoubtedly much more expensive than a single user license?

My point is that it is one thing to buy the right to the music which a record label has, or for example Michael Jackson owns much of the rights to the beatle's collection because he purchased it.  

So unless we have the money that Michael Jackson has then I am guessing that our attempts to buy single user licensed copies of music does not give the group the right to make unlimited copies for our members.


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## Fahrvergnuugen (Jul 10, 2003)

Eventually, the IRAA will realize that the fact that people are insanely interested in sharing, trading and buying digital music is a GOOD thing. 

The problem is, they're too hung up on the Compact Disc. They just have to learn how to use it to their advantage.

This was before my time, but when the VCR came out, the movie industry flipped out, just like the recording industry is now. They were terrified that they were going to loose all kinds of money... What happened? They ended up MAKING tons of money.

The simple fact that so many people want to have huge collections of digital music on their computers, in their cars and in their pockets only says one thing, the general interest in Music is very high. 

I personally can say that since iTunes and the iPod came out, I listen to music WAY MORE than I ever did before. As soon as the recording industry can grasp this basic idea, things will get much better.


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## DJ Dylan (Jul 11, 2003)

Well, I never shared in the first place. I guess you could call me an ass because of that.... but I just never cared enough to share my files.


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## TommyWillB (Jul 13, 2003)

You should add an option that says, "I don't share now."

I certainly am NOT "insanely interested in sharing".

Sorry if you think that is odd.  (...or should I say "insane"?  )


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## Giaguara (Jul 13, 2003)

Done, Tommy


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## TommyWillB (Jul 13, 2003)




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## RPS (Jul 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *I'm in France, so forget about the RIAA. And besides, arresting people won't kill the P2P networks. I thought these people were paid to find constructive solutions, that's apparently not the case. *



If you're in Europe, can't the RIAA touch you?!


I myself will stop sharing by the way.


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## toast (Jul 13, 2003)

From their About US page:

_In support of this mission, the RIAA works to protect intellectual property rights worldwide and the First Amendment rights of artists; conduct consumer industry and technical                     research; and monitor and review - - state and federal laws, regulations and policies._

It looks like they're threatening you all over the planet, but any witty lawyer  will simply tell you the First Amendment is an American law that can be applied only to its (American) citizens, and/or inside its (American) borders.

RIAA has no international legitimate power, except thru WTO and EU laws and decreets. Of course we Frenchmen have a RIAA equivalent, but it's complete bullsh!t, almost a fictitious police service, composed by 30 or so lazy f++kwits.

King Crimson was great  and I even bought their last CD ! I said: bought.


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