# Apple to go x86 for sure.  Got proof.



## terran74 (Jan 4, 2003)

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-979129.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

This is it folx.  This is what was coming down the line.  I never thought Apple would do it.  I protested it but I knew once Apple decided to start charging for iApps that it was game over for the PowerPC.

Apple has been posititioning itself as a software vendor for the past 2.5 years.

1.) They started the iApps thing.
2.) They have begun to move into other devices besides computers.
3.) They created their own retail chain.
4.) They started .Mac services.
5.) They bought up smaller software companies and are selling it are Apple branded software.

This is it.  It's time to see them go x86.  I think this is how it will be done.

Since Apple relies on hardware they won't just create a retail shrinkwrapped package and sell it and try to support every motherboard or hardware vendor.  They will do it slowly over the next year.

1.) They will announce x86 servers and an x86 based MacOS X server.  They will probably announce a hardware vendor to ship these servers if they do not ship them their selves.  The new x86 server will be announced probably by WWDC in May.  At that time they will unveil their strategy to developers on moving to x86 and announce that the 64 bit IBM chip will be available for dual or quad processor servers and that is where the PowerPC macos will live on, in server form.
2.)  They probably will dump the PowerPC desktop version slowly in incriments.  First will be the pro machines.  They will offer 64 bit dual processor Apple branded Macs based on AMD or Intel for high end professionals this summer.  By summer 2004, all machines will go x86.  G4's will be phased out and at that time they will decide which 64 bit chip to fully support. Intel or AMD.  They will usher in the 64bit age of Desktop computing by being the first to fully move to 64bit.
3.)  They will probably only support Apple based 64 bit AMD or Intel macs at first but whether or not they support a shrinkwrapped version of the OS for clones, motherboard vendors etc is still uncertain.  They probably will let that be decided on "Unsupported" developer work with Darwin.  This way they don't entirely canibalize their hardware business with a retail MacOS x86. 
4.)  32bit x86 may not be supported ever.  It would make a transition to this new chip (AMD or Intel) much easier from developer standpoint.
5.) More Apple software and "devices" will be released over the next two years to help ease the transition.
6.) 2005 MYSF will probably unveil Apple's first  attempt to clone mac's since the failed attempt in the 90s.  Dell will be sought but Sony will probably be the first to support it.
7.) By late 2003 MS will dump Office for mac and Apple will anounce a deal with sun to bundle StarOffice 1.0 for MacOS 10.x.  It will be released in early 2004.  
8.) Opera will try to replace IE for the browser but Apple may go with Netscape after MS dumps Office.  It will be an attempt to further strengthen their ties with AOL and use AOL's financial woes as a means to get yet another online channel to sell Apple hardware, devices and software to consumers and to promote Apple technologies as a digital hub to AOL subscribers with more .Mac services.  They will do with AOL what they did with CompUSA.  An Apple online AOL store within a store.

These are my own predictions and opinions and I know they sound far fetched but it's based on what i've seen apple doing for the past 2 years.  I am not a fan of leaving PowerPC behind but I think the writing is on the wall for Apple and they cannot avoid it at this point.

As we all know Apple is a hardware company but that is slowly starting to change.  Apple Computer is now just Apple.


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## Jason (Jan 4, 2003)

where is the proof again?


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## terran74 (Jan 4, 2003)

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-979129.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

That's the proof.  These are all cocoa based apps which means they will require little to no rewrite for x86.

It is proof because we all know Apple cannot canibalize hardware as a hardware company but this is proof they are moving away from hardware and preparing to rely more on software sales than hardware sales for their revenue.  That is the only way moving to Intel or AMD would be viable.


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## Jason (Jan 4, 2003)

no offense, but thats not proof, thats an educated assumption...


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## LordOphidian (Jan 4, 2003)

It's not even a educated assumption really, its simply an opinion.  From all reports these iApps will still come bundled with the new macs, its just the upgrades you will have to pay for.  And as I recall some of these apps used to be semi-comercial in the past, and for them this is simply a return.

Wether or not Apple will go to x86, this move really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things, and, in my opinion, has nothing to do with a swith of arch's.

Also, iMovie is carbon.


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## mrfluffy (Jan 4, 2003)

i might be missing something but if apple releases x86 macs that doesnt mean OS X will run on every x86 machine does it? all it means is a different processor just like the change from 68k to PPC. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong


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## dlloyd (Jan 4, 2003)

'Thread Killer'? I would change that to 'Apple Computer Killer'.


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## Pengu (Jan 4, 2003)

Or. How about, 'I Know Everything Because I Went To <i>Special</i> School'
How many times are people gonna re-post rumors/opinions/theories about apple going to x86 or apple simply making software products. and. just to add to the pot. i heard from some friends who are right into the whole Wintel/Linux/AMD thing, that AMD is gonna stop selling  consumer or 'Desktop' processors. Make what you will of this.


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## dlloyd (Jan 4, 2003)

Yeah, well if you ask me, that isn't going to happen while Steve Jobs is there.


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## terran74 (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mrfluffy _
> *i might be missing something but if apple releases x86 macs that doesnt mean OS X will run on every x86 machine does it? all it means is a different processor just like the change from 68k to PPC. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong *



Yes, that is pretty much correct.  That doesn't prevent someone from making an unsupported kernel that supports another motherboard and just putting MacOS 10 on top of it.

Cmon guys I am only trying to raise a discussion about this.  You guys are flaming me but have done nothing to discuss it.  Hasn't anyone noticed how Apple seems to be slowly moving to other markets?  Even Steve Jobs has been quoted as saying Apple should have been a software only company years ago (This was when he was bitter and CEO of NeXT)

I like my PowerPC based mac but it just seems more and more Apple is making the hardware less significant.  Maybe it's because of the economy but did they release any earth shattering computers this year outside of the Xserve?  Apple was more focused on other things and I think that is part of the strategy to move away from their dependance on hardware.

This is totally what this forum is about right?  To discuss rumors and news?  What about a little 2003 predictions?  We are a week away from MWSF.  Im just getting in the mood for all the buzz that happens before a MW Expo.

What strikes me as odd is how they have released iCal and iSync and announced the iApps upgrade pricing change a week before Macworld.  Is that a new thing Apple will do is pre announce their Expo offerings or are they letting us know this now because 'ol Steve has some cool earth shattering things he's going to announce at the Expo.

Maybe this iApps article was a bad leak?


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## dlloyd (Jan 4, 2003)

Yeah, they released the 'Lamp iMac' this time last year. That sounds like a new product to me!
but they really have all the bases covered, they have a professional desktop, a consumer desktop, a professional laptop, a consumer laptop, and now they have a professional server. What other computers do they need?
Sure, they are releaseing other products, to create their 'digital life style'. Think about it: some teenager walks into Best Buy, sees a cool looking MP3 player, so he buys it. He then finds out that it is made by Apple, so he thinks: "Wow, if this is so good, I better get one of their computers to go with it!"
That is my opinion anyway.


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## MacLegacy (Jan 4, 2003)

why for god's sake would Apple stop being an hardware company?? I just can't see a software company use retail stores for its software and devices in the case of Apple . 

I disagree with your opinion, but will try not to flame.

I just don't see them abandonning the PowerBook, iBook, iMac, PowerMac and eMac

the link you posted seem no proof to me, but anyway you can have your own opinion..


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## Anim8r (Jan 5, 2003)

Actually Apple has announced nothing. The info on the iApps is specualtion based on inside information.
The iMac info was accidentally released by Time, and as I recall Stevey was pissed!


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## ScottW (Jan 5, 2003)

Here is something to chew on...

Apple makes great hardware. I know many people who would buy a Powerbook if it ran Windows. Imagine Apple having an x86 platform... you could by a "Mac" and run Windows on or Mac OS. You could install Mac OS X on other hardware, not just Mac's.

So, whether you love the software, or love the hardware or both, its a win win situation for Apple.


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## ddma (Jan 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by terran74 _
> *http://news.com.com/2100-1040-979129.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed
> 
> That's the proof.  These are all cocoa based apps which means they will require little to no rewrite for x86.
> ...



hahaha... hahaha... sorry... hahaha...

well, i think new applications are writen in Cocoa... hahaha... well... yes... Cocoa is the programming API on Mac OS X... shouldn't Apple have to write program in Cocoa?? Or VB.net??


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## terran74 (Jan 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *Yeah, they released the 'Lamp iMac' this time last year. That sounds like a new product to me!
> but they really have all the bases covered, they have a professional desktop, a consumer desktop, a professional laptop, a consumer laptop, and now they have a professional server. What other computers do they need?
> *



You are correct about their bases being covered.  The hardware is still stagnating though.  It's not entirely 100% apple's fault but it is something that is happening on their professional lines.  Aside from firewire 2.0 and usb 2.0 and improved memory there hasn't been much innovation in hardware on PC's and Mac's but that is what we have Apple for.  They are the ones who push the bar a little higher with innovation and they really haven't been innovating the hardware world.

The only thing that makes them different from a PC nowadays is the CPU and price.  That said, they are now relying on design and applications  to boost their revenue.  This is why I think in the end the hardware will match pc's more (with CPU) and they will rely on their hardware  design to innovate its sales.  The hardware will be there to suppliment their software sales in order to make more money.  They will also release more services for the hardware to further suppliment their revenue of software. The services that go along with hardware will be what they push for sales.

We saw the creation of .Mac for consumer.  What will be their .Mac for professionals?  What about the market they sell to?  Well we see they are pushing .Mac for education with a lower price but how will they extend that?  what about design businesses?  I think .Mac was only the beginning.

What about this server?  What good is selling a server if you don't sell the services that go along with it like the support options and training options.  The services that help you make the most of your hardware purchases like what IBM is doing with their "eBusiness" solutions.  What about .Mac solutions for large graphic design agencies in need of more power with clusters to better render large rendering jobs (probably mostly video rendering) or backup and recovery solutions for servers (because let me tell you,  just the design agencies alone manage alot more data in a year than a typical medium sized business.  Some of it is 400-800 mbyte sized images.)  I'm sure it gets even significantly larger with video agencies.

When apple starts to focus on this strategy (which I assure you they will this coming year just from what they have been doing in 2001) The CPU will be the last thing to sell their Mac.  Even IBM knows this.  That is why their workstations are being sold for the durability and workmanship, as well as support services and not the speed anymore.

This is what sells computers to large institutions now, not the bells and whistles of the hardware but the support and services that go with it.

For consumers it will be iApps and the devices that connect to the computer.  Like iPod and iXXXX and iXXXX.  It will also be .Mac services like iCards, iEmail, iDrive, iPrintYourDigitalPhotosAtKodak, and iBackup

If they continue this trend, the whole PowerPC vs Intel or AMD debate will be very moot.

Anyway like I said before it is my opinion but my iProof is in the strategy they have set in motion from 2000-2001.  Maybe they will change their name to iApple... nah.


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## ApeintheShell (Jan 6, 2003)

I think the advantage that Apple still has is it's integration with the Mac OS software with the Macintosh hardware. 
They are one of the few companies who keep this tradition. 
People have the desire to see Apple move to another chip just as they like it when they purchase there new macintosh.
But as discussed here many other times developer's would not find it pleasant to make another version of there software after they released a PPC version already.
So maybe you want to get all of us into the "macworld hype" but the majority of us have heard this too many times to recall.
Just because Apple wants to make money on products they developed doesn't mean the macintosh is being axed.
Like the mac bible says, "if there were no macintosh, there would be a need to create one"
By the way it might not have been this year or last but they did innovate the iPod, support bluetooth, add a dvd-r burner to a consumer machine and who knows what else in the future. don't get your hopes up poopsie.


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## ApeintheShell (Jan 6, 2003)

I think the advantage that Apple still has is it's integration with the Mac OS software with the Macintosh hardware. 
They are one of the few companies who keep this tradition. 
People have the desire to see Apple move to another chip just as they like it when they purchase there new macintosh.
But as discussed here many other times developer's would not find it pleasant to make another version of there software after they released a PPC version already.
So maybe you want to get all of us into the "macworld hype" but the majority of us have heard this too many times to recall.
Just because Apple wants to make money on products they developed doesn't mean the macintosh is being axed.
Like the mac bible says, "if there were no macintosh, there would be a need to create one"
By the way it might not have been this year or last but they did innovate the iPod, support bluetooth, add a dvd-r burner to a consumer machine and who knows what else in the future. 

don't be so glum poopsie.


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## ApeintheShell (Jan 6, 2003)

it was fun to post twice!


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## stealth (Jan 6, 2003)

are all the moderators sleeping ? cant they see that theres a double post from ApeinttheShell and take care of it??? way to go guys.. well done


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## Jersey Turnpike (Jan 6, 2003)

I'll believe it when it actually happens.


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## Jason (Jan 6, 2003)

whats wrong with a double post? it was an accident im not going to jump on him and delete it because he made a mistake 

maybe i should just delete yours for complaining


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## Roadie (Aug 8, 2003)

I'm so glad there was all that proof...


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## dlloyd (Aug 8, 2003)

Oh puh-leeze. This topic is sooooooo out of date...


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## Roadie (Aug 8, 2003)

heh..i know, i was searching for something completely different and came across this.  I was jsust saying how those new x86 processors are pretty sweet...oh, wait...


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## adambyte (Aug 8, 2003)

lol. But I'm sure some people are looking at this thread and having that joyous moment of "I told you so"


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## Arden (Aug 9, 2003)

I know I did.  I saw the title and I thought, "Okay, yeah right, time to get the machine guns ready."  But then I saw the date, and I saw there was no need, since terran74 has been proved wrong by the wonderful, magnificent G5.  He was full of 5h17 when he posted it, and he should probably retract on his statement.

If Apple stopped selling hardware, 90% of their business, they would probably go out of business or have to lay off most of their force.


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## Stridder44 (Aug 9, 2003)

Heh....this is funny


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## dave17lax (Aug 9, 2003)

So does this mean we can run kazaa on the mac now?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Aug 9, 2003)

Not only can you run Kazaa on the new Mac, but you can load Windows XP Professional right along side it!  The new Macs will also boast the ability to run Windows programs natively, so there will be no need to switch between operating systems.  In addition, you can use your Windows logon to login to Mac OS X and vice-versa, eliminating the need for separate Macintosh- and Windows-based computers.  What a grand time in computer history indeed.


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## dlloyd (Aug 9, 2003)

LOL!


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## serpicolugnut (Aug 9, 2003)

So I wonder if Terran will post a retraction now that he's been proven wrong.

Apple moving to the G5 should (hopefully) finally put the x86 rumors to rest for good. Apple has invested alot of R&D money and time in the G5 and it clearly has legs. IBM is still a viable partner in the AIM alliance, and although Moto isn't the star child anymore, it's still part of the game plan so long as they can continue to make chips ideal for Apple's portables (which the G5 is not yet suited for). 

When will the pundits learn - Apple makes *alot* of moneyoff of hardware sales. Sure, Apple is moving in to additional consumer markets (iTMS, iPod, iSight), most of which will be cross platform. But the real gravy train is the hardware sales. I haven't seen the numbers, but I bet hardware accounts for more than 75% of Apples bottom line. It would take a whole lot of successful consumer items to compensate for that number....


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## MikeXpop (Aug 9, 2003)

Here's a conversation between me and one of my wintel-loving friends, when he wanted to buy a laptop. He's going to buy a Dell laptop btw. Feel free to try and sway him our side on AIM if you want.


MikeXpop says: just get an iBook
jbchris96 says: can i just f-disk it and install windows? lol
MikeXpop says: Chris, the stupidity of that sentence hurts me
MikeXpop says: I mean, physically, it hurt
jbchris96 says: lol
MikeXpop says: my brain is in pain
jbchris96 says: can i?


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## Tarambana (Aug 9, 2003)

Well, I'm glad I didn't pay any attention to this type of stupidity an dbought my iMac 


Jeez  These five months have been wonderful!!!


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## Arden (Aug 9, 2003)

Tell him to get an iBook, VPC, and Windows.  Then he can have the best of the Mac and the mediocrity of Windows, all on one computer!

I don't think Terran will be retracting his statement, or even returning to this site any time soon.  His last post was on April 20th (4/20 hee... ), http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=209849#post209849 which also was a completely off-base speculation, though not necessarily on Terran's part.  But I don't think he's part of the site anymore.


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## ApeintheShell (Aug 11, 2003)

Hmm..
Well who dug this discussion out of the junk pile?

Achoo


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## dlloyd (Aug 11, 2003)

Mr. Roadie did (no hard feelings, sir ).

I remember when this thread was first posted, I just about blew my top at that guy, I was so upset


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## Roadie (Aug 11, 2003)

That's *Mr.* Roadie to y...oh..

Heh j/k

anyway i just had to comment on this when i saw it...some people just like to be know-it-alls i guess.


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## Arden (Aug 11, 2003)

Know-it-all's who know absolutely nothing.  I just finished the July Macworld (yes, I know, I'm behind on the times) last night, well this morning I should say, and the last column was talking about how Apple would lose tons of money and have to significantly reduce their size if they ported OS X to Intel's arkitekky.

Apple is a hardware company that builds their own OS to sell their hardware.  They are not an OS company, they are a hardware company.  The column said that something like 75% of their sales, almost $1.1 billion, was of computers, and another 15% was non-computer hardware like monitors and iPods.  Only $160 million was from any software, including the OS.  If you could buy OS X on cheap PC hardware, you would have no reason to buy from Apple, and they would lose that billion dollars, closing the Apple stores and hindering their innovation.


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## dlloyd (Aug 11, 2003)

I read that column at the library. I remember thinking "Wow, Apple better not do that. It would SUCK!"


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## terran74 (Aug 18, 2003)

I was smoking alot of crack back when I posted this thread.  I do not retract the statement but I do want to say that I was one of the main people behind the adoption of the PowerPC 970.

I still think Apple could ultimately move away from relying on hardware.  However people think that to do this means Apple would be giving up it's hardware.  I think it means more that Apple would be giving up it's reliance on the Personal Computer and spreading their product lines to something other than the PC and onto things like an Mp3 player, internet services, music services etc.  

I still predict Apple will do such consumer oriented things in the near future... OH WAIT yeah thats right they already have. Gee, I guess i wasn't smoking too much crack after all.

As for the adoption of the x86, that was one thing I can't believe *I* would have even posted.  If anything if they ever moved towards a standard chip it would be whatever 64 bit chip wins the war of 64 bit.  IBM, AMD, or Intel.  That war has only just begun.

Apologies for being absolutely wrong on my prediction that they would move to x86.  Yes I admit I was wrong... and grateful for that too.  What on earth was I thinking?


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## malexgreen (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by terran74 _
> *I was smoking alot of crack back when I posted this thread.
> [snip]
> *



I predicted that if Apple was going to use the PPC970, that they would have product by 2003:

Here's the text:


> Re: makes me wonder
> 
> quote: from 10/16/02 post by malexgreen
> 
> ...


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## voice- (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by terran74 _
> [BI think it means more that Apple would be giving up it's reliance on the Personal Computer and spreading their product lines to something other than the PC and onto things like an Mp3 player, internet services, music services etc.[/B]


I really doubt that. Sales of Macs really mean much to Apple's economy, even if the software is what sells the Macs.
That's their game. People want the software, and buy Macs to get it. Giving 3rd party companies a chance to run OS X would be a killing blow to Apple. At least, that's how it seems to me.

I'm not a big-shot at this stuff, but I know I'll buy a Mac to run OS X, and that's why. The price difference is so big that if I could run OS X on any PC, I would...


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## MrNivit1 (Aug 18, 2003)

With the introduction of the G5 and 64 bit processing (into its hardware AND software), I would seriously doubt that Apple would step backwards and adopt the still 32-bit x86 porcessors... I recomend reading Apple's white paper on the new G5:

http://a1392.g.akamai.net/7/1392/51...om/g5processor/pdf/G5_Processor_WP_072903.pdf


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## Jabberwocky (Aug 18, 2003)

Complete festering pants.
The whole deal with Apple hardware is the speed of the chip - the design of the the Motorolla chips over the X86, pipeline cache , megahertz myth, blah blah blah.

This is no proof that Apple is moving to X86 from that article, there is  not even a suggestion!

Why on earth would they throw away their biggest advantage over PCs?


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## Arden (Aug 19, 2003)

Jab, he already said he was high on crack...

Apple will never stop selling personal computers until they find something better to sell, like going from horse & buggy to automobile.  Macs make up 75% of their revenue; do you think they will just give that up?  They make a kick-ass OS only so you'll buy their computers.  That's the reason they abolished the clone licenses, so that Umax, etc. wouldn't undersell Apple and force them out of their own market, like IBM experienced.

Thanks for the explanation, at least, Terran.


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