# YellowDogLinux 4.0 ain't free?!



## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 6, 2004)

So I've been waiting for the brand-spankin' new YellowDog Linux 4.0 to be released, and it has!

The only problem is that you have to be a YDL.net member ($50) or order the CDs through TerraSoft Solutions for $50 or $80.

What happened to YDL being freely available?  3.1 is great, but 4.0 has many improvements I'd like to check out.

Does anyone know if 4.0 will be released to the general public, or will it become a "pay" bundle, much like RedHat did?


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## nixgeek (Nov 6, 2004)

Usually you have to wait a month or two until they put it on their FTP servers for free download.  They give priority to their paying customer and later make it available to the rest of the world.  A similar thing happened with YDL 3.x also.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 7, 2004)

AAAAAAH!  NOOOOOO!  That's the worst thing they could do to me...   They were overdue on the final release of it by almost a month and now THIS?!

Thanks for the info.  More waiting game, I guess...


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## blue&whiteman (Nov 7, 2004)

doesn't linux legally have to be free?  the only time you should ever pay for linux is if you buy the disks with a manual.  downloading has always been free.  this is very odd and I want to keep an eye on what happens with this.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 7, 2004)

Linux is free, but if a company "packages" it up and provides an easy installer and custom-compiled software, then they can sell it for whatever they want.

Plenty of Linux distributions are sold: RedHat (not Fedora), YellowDog, Mandrake, etc.


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## nixgeek (Nov 7, 2004)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Linux is free, but if a company "packages" it up and provides an easy installer and custom-compiled software, then they can sell it for whatever they want.
> 
> Plenty of Linux distributions are sold: RedHat (not Fedora), YellowDog, Mandrake, etc.



The other reason is also because most of the distros available through retail also include a lot of commercial, non-free software you wouldn't find in the downloadable versions.  For this reason, they don't provide those distros for free (for they would be breaking the law).  What Linux distributors have done is provide a version that includes commercial/closed-source software and can only be purchased, and another equal version that doesn't include all the commercial/closed-source stuff that's freely downloadable.  This is the case with SuSE, Mandrake, Red Hat, and YellowDog as well.

A third reason is basically to support the cause.  Debian, Slackware, and various other distros (not just Linux, but the BSDs also) are sold as a way to donate to the cause, as that money is most of the time put back into the project for R&D and other such things....and yes, even for personal profit.  Consider that Patrick Volkerding is the ONLY person that works on Slackware.  That's a lot of work for one person...what better way to show your support than by donating to the cause monetarily, if not through active cooperative development??

As for the wait for a downloadable version of YDL 4, it's not that bad a wait.  Usually, it's taken TerraSoft quite a while before they actually release a followup version, so the 2 month wait isn't too bad.  When I finally downloaded version 3.x, it was about a year or two before they actually upgraded to version 4.


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## Viro (Nov 9, 2004)

A common misconception is that anything released under the GPL becomes public domain. It isn't true. Just because something is released under the GPL doesn't mean that just *anybody* has access to the source code.

It does mean though that if you did buy a GPL product, the suppliers are obligated to provide the source code or else they will be in direct violation of the GPL. It is important to remember the often over done phrase "Free as in speech, not free as in beer".

The misconception that releasing your code under the GPL obligates you to show your source code to the world has often stopped companies from releasing their products under the GPL since they assume they would have to reveal the code to just anybody.

Yellowdog is perfectly allowed to charge for their distribution of Linux even if they don't add any commercial code there. They'll just have to give you the source when you buy it.


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## Viro (Nov 9, 2004)

That said, you could always download ubuntulinux and give that a whirl.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 9, 2004)

Well, I'm a big fan of YellowDog and am extremely interested in a Fedora Core 2-based distribution... I've been running YellowDog since 2.1 and really got into 3.0.1... 

It's not Linux I'm interested in, it's YellowDog's distribution of Linux I'm interested in.  $50 is seeming more and more worth it to be able to get my hands on 4.0, but, in the end, I'll probably stick with 3.0.1 and wait until 4.0 is freely available.

I'm just crossing my fingers they don't go the way of RedHat and never release their stuff for free.  I understand that Fedora is the "free" version of RedHat, but it ain't RedHat, that's for sure.


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## Viro (Nov 9, 2004)

Out of curiosity, why are you interested in YDL but not in Linux? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be interested in Linux instead of a particular distro since that would mean you get to switch distros to see which one suits you best?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 9, 2004)

No, maybe you interpreted me wrong... I've got plenty of Linux boxes running everything from Gentoo to Fedora to RedHat 9 to Mandrake and on... I was using the word "interested" interchangeably with "want."

I'm interested in Linux, period.  However, I've been waiting to try out YellowDog 4.0 and see how it compares to 3.1, since it's all Fedora Core 2-based now.  It's just the latest release in a distro I'm really interested in, but it's not the only distro I use.


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## Viro (Nov 10, 2004)

Ah.... makes sense then.


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## benk (Nov 15, 2004)

Just in case anyone's interested, I tried out the latest of Ubuntu Linux (Warthy) on my brand new iBook (1.2ghz) and everything was detected perfectly, except Airport Extreme. I don't believe there are drivers for Airport Extreme anywhere, right? Not even on YDL. I kinda miss Linux since I've left my Fedora powered Thinkpad for the iBook, but I guess I'll just stick to Gnome on X11 as long as I have this machine. =)


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## Viro (Nov 18, 2004)

Ubuntu is a fantastic distro. How is it running on your iBook? Things I miss when running Linux are Wireless, Sleep, and 3D acceleration. The rest is just fine and dandy. All of these issues will be addressed when Broadcom release specs to their wireless cards and nVidia release the specs to their video cards (3D acceleration and sleep).


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## delsoljb32 (Nov 18, 2004)

yellowdog doesnt support/detect airport extreme?? i didnt know that, i was about to get YDL for the PB, should i wait for it? will there be an update soon?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 27, 2004)

YellowDog Linux 4.0 is now free and available via many mirrors.  YEEEHAAA!

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/resources/downloads.shtml


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## delsoljb32 (Nov 28, 2004)

what is the typical time it takes for them to do updates to YDL? i would like it to support the airport extreme and the dual head monitors for the PB. The audio isnt that important as far as using linux, but the rest i think i will be utilizing quite a bit.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 28, 2004)

It all depends -- they're not on a release schedule.  3.1 was build around Fedora Core 1, and 4.0 is built around Fedora Core 2.

As far as I know, there isn't a free Linux distribution that supports 802.11b/g out-of-the-box.  Here's a page with links to various drivers and information:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/


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## Viro (Nov 28, 2004)

Wireless on the Airport Extreme range of cards will not work until the company that produces the chips (Broadcom) releases either the specs or drivers for the cards. This hasn't got anything to do with Apple though Apple sure could help users lobby Broadcom to release their drivers.

Sleep on the laptops using ATI video cards should work fine. Even the latest Radeon 9700 video cards in the 17" PB thanks to the latest patches by Benh. Sadly, the same can't be said for the nVidia based PB 12". nVidia needs to release either the specs or drivers before 3D acceleration and sleep can be fully implemented.

After holding my breath for more than a year, I've given up on waiting. UbuntuLinux is a very nice distro, the sound on my Powerbook though listed on YDL as not working is working  nicely in Ubuntu. Give it a shot.


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## blue&whiteman (Nov 29, 2004)

I d/l all 4 .iso's today.  going to install and check it out as soon as I have the chance.  from what i've read 4 is pretty decent so I look forward.  how many of the rpm's do I really need for normal use?  all I was left wanting the right one for after I installed 3 is the one that handles monitor res.


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## delsoljb32 (Nov 29, 2004)

ok, maybe its cause im a new guy, but im having download issues with YDL and the mirror sites that they have set up. i have tried to download 4.0 from several different mirrors, but the server keeps timing me out during the process. is there a way to change the timeout? I have tried using the terminal to ftp, i also tried a few clients i found on the net. is there an easy way to do it? safari works well by integrating the with the finder to mount the YDL server, but the same timeout issues arise. any ideas?


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## Viro (Nov 29, 2004)

Try downloading them later. I think the YDL mirrors are overloaded as the world + dog is trying to download a set.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 29, 2004)

Soem servers are slow, some are fast.  I got mine from the first http site listed under United States, and it screamed along at 310k/sec on my DSL connection.

Some servers have a maximum download rate around 50k/sec, others have no cap on the bandwidth.  Just keep trying different servers.

What I do is start a download from a server, and if I don't see it maxing out my bandwidth, then I cancel the download and try a different server until I find one that can serve me the data at a higher speed.


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## delsoljb32 (Nov 29, 2004)

thanks, ill just wait a bit before i start downloading it again. i want to get the PB files backed up and do a reformat/partition first anyway


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 30, 2004)

I'm happy to report that I now have YellowDog Linux 4.0 up and running just fine on an OldWorld 7600 with a 400MHz G3 upgrade.  The L2 cache works just fine, and I'm running at 1024x768 with 4MB of on-board VRAM.

The setup was a little backwards -- I had to download a custom boot kernel and add 10,000 to the size of the ramdisk to be able to boot and install.  The installer also crashed directly after installing everything, but it's ok -- it was a crash due to the fact that the installer was looking for yaboot stuff, but I (have to) use BootX because this is an unsupported OldWorld machine.

After the crash, you boot only into a text-based login, which is fine.  I logged in as root and created a new user account with useradd and passwd.  I then changed one little number in the /etc/inittab file and graphical login was enabled upon reboot.

This version has some very nice GUI enhancements over version 3.1.  I now have a triple-boot system running on this computer (OS 9, OS X, Linux), which is just kinda cool in itself.

At any rate, I'd be glad to answer any questions about how to install or configure this version on OldWorld machines, since they aren't supported anymore by YellowDog Linux 4.0.


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 20, 2005)

I received my distro cd's yesterday and am looking forward to doing a dual boot on my PB. I spoke with a tech the other day and said that they had no plans to support AirPort Extreme cards since Apple won't release it to developers.  But, he did mention that it would support the dual monitors which was a concern of mine. we'll see...

ElDiablo, any advice for installations? Is the boot system included in the installer? Should I install OS X first, then YDL? Does it matter?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 20, 2005)

I would partition the drive into two partitions: one for Mac OS X, one for YellowDog.  Then, install Mac OS X on one partition.  Once that's done, boot from the YellowDog install CD, and it should re-partition the unused partition into its own partitions automatically (of course, you need to tell it to use the unused partition).

I'm not sure if install order makes a difference, but just to be on the safe side, I would recommend installing OS X first, then Linux, so that Linux's bootloader will auto-configure itself to boot Linux or Mac OS X.  If you install Linux first, I don't know if you have to configure the bootloader later to "recognize" the OS X partition, or whether it does it automatically, so I would say first OS X, then Linux.

It can't get any easier to install Linux than it is on a PowerMac... I've even got 4.0 running on an unsupported machine (old 7600), and it only took two extra steps.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 21, 2005)

thanks, just rereading your notes (and others), bout to start the process. i'll be back in a while (hours? days?  ) and report my success/failure...


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 21, 2005)

whew, everything went smoothly, not that i didnt expect it to. although i am having some issues configuring the dual head monitors though, ill work that out later. took about an hour and a half from reformat to finish (both OS). Now to reinstall all my programs and data...


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