# Keynote vs. Powerpoint



## karavite (Jan 7, 2003)

Unlike a lot of you young whipper snappers, I remember the day when many many compaines produced presentation software that was more "multimedia" and related to Director than what we have today in PowerPoint. Despite processors and OSs that would be a joke today, it was a really cool time - lots of innovation (remember"innovation" -  that thing Microsoft tried to kill along with our IT economy?). Of course all this innovation was ruined as Microsoft took over the world (unfairyl and without innovation) and almost every corporate or education presentation was reduced to a few ugly PPT themes. Suddenly, any subject in the world could be condensed to a set of bullet points.

Perhaps this has all changed? Keynote looks really nice - far more elegant to do the same kind of presentations PowerPoint still bumbles through (aligning objects and pitiful "seamless" intergration with charts and tables from excel for example) and it looks like Apple took some technology from Final Cut Pro in all those neat new video transitions. Still, what about making interactive presentations and making them easier to do? Believe it or not, you can do some things like this with PowerPoint, but it is far from elegant or powerful. This is something Apple could do so much better and I can't wait to see what Keynote can do in this respect and/or what Apple will add to it in the future.

So, anyone with a powerbook or ibook - make your next presentation in Keynote (it really should be offered for free) and wake up all the PC drones just like in the old 1984 Apple commercial!


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## karavite (Jan 7, 2003)

Oops, maybe this should be in Mac OS X System & Software


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## chevy (Jan 7, 2003)

It's difficult to beat an old chimp !


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## MacLuv (Jan 7, 2003)

This is the stupidest idea I've ever seen. I can see Apple' strategic plan on this one--go through the back door with presentation software--but it's not going to catch on. They've just been wasting time.


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## wiz (Jan 7, 2003)

no guys there is no plan here, just a ware


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## LordOphidian (Jan 7, 2003)

Like Jobs said, this was an App that was developed for him.  They simply added some polish and released it.

It looks like a pretty awsome app, but the one down side I see is that if you want it to display with all those cool features, you will have to use it on a Mac.  I'm pretty sure that the ppt format doesn't support dynamic 3d slide transitions, or alpha blending and things like that.  The QT movie export  could be cool, but wouldn't be user controlable (aside from hitting play/pause between slides i guess).


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## MacLuv (Jan 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by LordOphidian _
> *Like Jobs said, this was an App that was developed for him.  They simply added some polish and released it.*



That, in itself, scares me.


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## wiz (Jan 7, 2003)

its actually pretty easy to use and bundled with useful features


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## toast (Jan 7, 2003)

> Like Jobs said, this was an App that was developed for him. They simply added some polish and released it.


Did you believe one second a whole devteam worked on a stable, complete, design-intensive application for King Jobs ? Would you mind write a whole application for a keynote ?

... :| ...


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## symphonix (Jan 7, 2003)

Actually, Toast, that wouldn't surprise me. He'd probably put the new guys on it to test their talents. And it is the sort of thing they would do.


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## ianfinity (Jan 7, 2003)

hiya

Given that this uses quartz rendering and open gl gaphics, I am certain that Mr. Jobs was able to leverage work already being done on the OS and other applications (i.e. Preview) to act as a basis for the Keynote software. And this was because there wasn't an easy way to do it otherwise - they needed something between powerpoint and director.

I will reserve judgement as to whether I use it for client presentations, based on export to powerpoint. But I do know that all presentations for my business will likely be done in this application and it is giving me many options to export it if I ever need to email it.

I may be the only one, but I have wondered what they were using for Jobs' keynotes and now I know. And they have already posted a note telling me how to make my keyspan dmr work with it.

cheers, 
Ian


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## karavite (Jan 7, 2003)

> This is the stupidest idea I've ever seen. I can see Apple' strategic plan on this one--go through the back door with presentation software--but it's not going to catch on. They've just been wasting time.



You are probably right and since they are charging $99 (again, it should be FREE) for it and there isn't a windows version, it is probably doomed. Oh well, I really was hoping for someone to end the misery I endure in seeing so many ppt presentations, but I guess I will have to accept it.

Regarding this being Jobs personal app - do you think developing it cost less or more than his helicopter?


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## Urbansory (Jan 7, 2003)

I prefer Director and Flash presentations, but Keynote might take away some of the horror that powerpoint caused. The endless pain of those PP presentation, those corny effects, MAKE IT ALL GO AWAY. I just hate powerpoint presentation on a Mac, so depressing.


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## karavite (Jan 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Urbansory _
> *I prefer Director and Flash presentations, but Keynote might take away some of the horror that powerpoint caused. The endless pain of those PP presentation, those corny effects, MAKE IT ALL GO AWAY. I just hate powerpoint presentation on a Mac, so depressing. *



Right on brother! This is what I was trying to explain. Powerpoint took over and set presentations backward. The old presentation programs I was referring to (1994 - 1996 or so) were like Director, but easier to use (I like Director too though). It was snap to create presentions that were more related to a kiosk type apps - buttons, annimation, if-then logic, sound... sure ppt has some of this, but it is so limited and bland.


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## toast (Jan 8, 2003)

Ho ho HO ! I've read some more people are saying Keynote was developed for Jobs uniquely and then thought as a commercial product.

Come on ! Earth is down there, get your feet on it. It takes HOURS, PAID HOURS to write some good software ! I hardly think of any serious CEO to ask his devteam "Dear subjects, I Want This". I think Jobs' image would have suffered from this in his own company, and he doesn't nedd/deserve that !

No, sorry. That's untrue.


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## yogi_kudu (Jan 8, 2003)

> The old presentation programs I was referring to (1994 - 1996 or so)



Yeah!  Remember Persuasion?!  There was a time when it was actually sort of fun to make presentations.  I'm optimistic about Keynote.


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## hugheba (Jan 8, 2003)

Man, does anybody expect to pay for software anymore?

These companies put a lot of time and effort into making some pretty cool prodcuts and all we can do it bitch that we don't get them for free?

I'm happy to be only paying half of what I'd pay for a professional OS coming from Redmond.

Just an observation.


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## lionsweb (Jan 8, 2003)

Why on earth should it be free? You have to pay for powerpoint.

There should be a free VIEWER, of course, to encourage people to use it.


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## valentinh (Jan 8, 2003)

for all complainers:  we all hate MS products, specially PPT onthe MAC, now we seem to have an alternative, KEYNOTE, and just by reading at the things it can do and how, believe, I will use it instead of you know what. 

We finally see nice applications from apple for Mac Users ONLY !, it is true it will be hard for them to survive is a MS dominated WORLD, but at least is our option and they certainly do the job: iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD (now iLife), iCal, Mail, Safari and Keynote, to mention a few of the very best appications Apple has ever ome with for the everyday plain user...

Come on guys..they are really putting it hard to it..it shows, give them some credit and do not complain...

let's help them with suggestions, which by the way apple seems to be listening more this time around, all of this applications have clear feedback pages on the apple site and every new release comes ith most of the suggestions included...

one more thing, they are blazzing FAST ! and that is a BIG plus..I can't wait to put my hands on Keynote !


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## Javintosh (Jan 8, 2003)

toast,

i'm sorry to see your scepticism, but I work for a large company. One of the managers in our area (mind you he manages a substantial part of a program, but he's no executive or anything) has a full time person that does little more than follow him to meeting and take minutes. He also has an assistant that keeps his schedule (although she does other stuff). When our CEO came over for 15 minutes, our division completely remodeled a building cafeteria so that it looked like a fancy restaurant. I could go on and on but let me tell you that we have plenty of custom-made software to satisfy this manager and that manager. After the last reorg, one of my coworkers told me that her previous full time job was working on this reporting application for her manager. Over the years the damned thing had bloated to 70,000 lines of code and hundreds of different reports!

I have seen entire program (with big iron) moved from one side of the county to the other because the program manager bough a new house and did not want a long comute!

I can *easily* believe steve has a little software program written for him (remember that a lot of the functionality in keynote is part of the OS).


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## ccuilla (Jan 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lionsweb _
> *There should be a free VIEWER, of course, to encourage people to use it. *



There is...QuickTime Player...errr...Preview...errr...Acrobat Reader...


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## edX (Jan 8, 2003)

yea, but we don't want to confuse windows' users who will insist that it is not compatible with anything they have - better slap QT player into a new package and call it keynote viewer.


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## Zpeat (Jan 9, 2003)

> The QT movie export  could be cool, but wouldn't be user controlable (aside from hitting play/pause between slides i guess).



Keynote support interactive QT export (so you can use keyboard to change slides)


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## karavite (Jan 9, 2003)

So toast, that means Keybote costs more than Job's helicopter right?


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## dtmdoc (Jan 9, 2003)

i myself cant wait to get the program.  I will
use it at work for my presentations using
my laptop to wow the crowd instead of the 
boring dreary ppt presentations we all know
and love to hate.


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## kalantna (Jan 9, 2003)

> Come on ! Earth is down there, get your feet on it. It takes HOURS, PAID HOURS to write some good software ! I hardly think of any serious CEO to ask his devteam "Dear subjects, I Want This". I think Jobs' image would have suffered from this in his own company, and he doesn't nedd/deserve that !



Get a clue.

Here's a question. How important are the keynotes for Apple and Jobs? If you answer anything but "very" get the hell out. Thousands of people tune in or pay to watch these things. It makes sense to have an "ace in the hole" with Keynote. It happens with all companies. I work at state university and we even write our own programs. (Yes, people get paid to do it!)


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## edX (Jan 9, 2003)

i'll throw in with the position that is almost a certainity that the app was written for specific in house use. even little companies get specific software developed for their individual needs. i once dated a woman who made her living off doing just that for companies. most of her apps were never seen by people outside the company she developed them for - but the companies obviously found them useful enough to pay for.

who knows how many more 'personal desire' apps apple has hidden up it's sleeve. you can bet keynote isn't the only one. hell, look at versiontracker and note how many apps are given away after the author spent the time to make something they personally needed. or sold as shareware for that matter. neccesity is still the mother of invention and it always starts with one person becoming aware of what they need. i have, on more than one occasion, remarked in these forums about how i would like to see a certain app developed and then seen it appear on VT shortly afterwards. coincidence? maybe. but probably not.


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## TommyWillB (Jan 10, 2003)

Hmmm... I wonder if this is a prelude to finally updating Hypercard?


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## Shifting (Jan 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *i have, on more than one occasion, remarked in these forums about how i would like to see a certain app developed and then seen it appear on VT shortly afterwards. coincidence? maybe. but probably not.  *



you're just trying to flaunt your pull on the scene, Ed!


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

not really - go ahead - test it. what little simple app have you been wanting for a specific task that you think 'there must be other people who want this as well'?  the one that is constantly on my wish list isn't simple so it won't work. in fact maybe we should start a thread somewhere and make a list and see how many turn up.


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## Shifting (Jan 10, 2003)

that's an interesting idea....i say go for it with the thread.

nothing really interests me with new apps - all i do is pretty much taken care of.

and you know that i was just messin' with ya anyways.


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

meanwhile, as we're debating whether people develop software or it magically appears on the desktop, there is a more pointed discussion of keynote and powerpoint going on here. 

perhaps we should get this thread back on that track and let the other thread go back to PC journalist bashing.


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## MacLuv (Jan 10, 2003)

Now I'm confused... all the detour signs are being put up... which way is the can? Oh no, wait, which thread are we in now?


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

let's see, you were about to tell me about how education users don't amount to a hill of beans i think


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## jade (Jan 10, 2003)

I think keynote is one of the precursers to a stronger reason for wintel users to switch.   Could be complete by the end of the year and will solidify's apple's position as the place where the hardware and software are created to work seamlessly together.  Imagine if you are in the market for a new computer.  You need the hardware and software to get yourself up to speed.  When you add the cost of the office suite to your new computer,  you have added $500.  Imagine if your options included an apple with a simple, elegant suite of products where you are ready to go right out of the box: email, multimedia, word-processing, spreadsheets etc, fully optimized for your computer (ilife, mail, ical, isync, keynote, safari and a much improved appleworks or replacement product).  You will have a lot less hesitation switching operating systems if you knew the software was preinstalled and seamlessly compatible for industry standard products.  And this could also ensure apple is prepared when microsoft closes the mac business unit.  But with a high-quality suite of apple products no one would miss the departure, and swittchers would have fewer concerns.


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## MacLuv (Jan 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *let's see, you were about to tell me about how education users don't amount to a hill of beans i think  *


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2003)

I've been preparing presentations for a consulting company for years. And I can tell you, they _did_ want presentations that worked. They didn't want to lull the customers, they wanted to *explain* to them how what works. It was also important to create a vertical graphical language in a presentation, so you could inform the CEO with the same presentation as the worker. Also, if you cared to listen to Steve Jobs, he was talking about presentations like the one he gave at MWSF. I personally wouldn't want his presentations to look bad. Nor would the CEO of Mercedes Benz at his annual conference. They all want the presentations to look good. That's why it's not secretaries with PowerPoint making those presentations, but graphics departments with either Acrobat or Director (or even Flash). And yes, there Keynote definitely helps. It brings some ease of use and style to people who _don't_ have a graphics department. Just like Steve said. He was perfectly right. Also, everybody seems to forget that it's 99$ and it's PowerPoint compatible! Why not see it as an extension to Office, if you can't see it as a product by itself?


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## symphonix (Jan 11, 2003)

> And this could also ensure apple is prepared when microsoft closes the mac business unit.



I doubt they'd do that, Jade. Even though MS does seem to behave as if they'd like all their competition to go away, and even though they are no longer required under any agreement to produce Office on the mac.

And why? Because the Macintosh BU accounts for just under 10% of Microsoft's sales. Becuase Office is the #1 selling application for the Mac.

To get back on topic though, I am really looking forward to getting my hands on Keynote. Over the past twelve months I've seen so many PowerPoint presentations I could scream, and I've begged at least a dozen people to use a little more imagination. In my university they use it to teach Multimedia!  I am not kidding.


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## ianfinity (Jan 11, 2003)

I still haven't been able to play with my copy of keynote much, but the reason I picked it up is that I see it as the Final Cut Express of the presentatioin software - somewhere between powerpoint and director. 

The overall strategy of the mid-range application is a nice signal that there is more depth to the mac than the black and white world of professional application vs. home hobby.

Now, if only a plug-in for good taste in execution shipped with every machine.


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## Jason (Jan 11, 2003)

i have a stupid question... with keynote can you export a file that will play on a pc? alot of corporations dont exactly have a mac setup to a large screen, its usually a pc  but if keynote can export a compatible stand alone player (kinda like director) that would be very cool.


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## symphonix (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, Jason, you can export to PowerPoint (albeit minus the transitions and alpha-blending effects) or to an interactive QuickTime movie (pretty cool).


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by symphonix _
> *Yes, Jason, you can export to PowerPoint (albeit minus the transitions and alpha-blending effects) or to an interactive QuickTime movie (pretty cool). *



I think they really need to make a free PC player for this. Sure the Powerpoint export is required, but a free player would result in a lot of people saying, "Hey, why can't I make presentations like this in PowerPoint?" 

Also, I just don't see people using a Quicktime version to run a presentation - not PC users. It is not an elegant fix for this. Of course, you can bet Microsoft will respond to Keynote by making Powerpoint a little fancier (though in the same way MS has always copied Apple - they will get about 1/4 the elegance), but there is a little window here for Apple to take advantage of.

Fryke - I liked all of your points too. I have heard that now that PC manufacturers are no longer illegally bound by MS, they are putting other office suites (Corel) on their PCs and this has caused MS to drop Office prices and/or offer academic versions. Sadly, we are all in this mess (Office) due to MS's illegal practices, but it sometimes seems it may be too late to see what true competion and fairness will give us after the little hand swat given MS by teh courts.


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## Quicksilver (Jan 13, 2003)

I think its an extreamly good idea and at that id like to say well done to apple at least there will be drones awaking from there sleep, people have a choice and thats what people like.

i wouldnt be surprised if people accually switch to a mac just because of this program it is everything alot of people i know simply need and all they want i mean alot, i have many contacts in the PR industry who are already raving about it and are willing to make the switch simply because of the hype - people i know just love apple and i think thats great...

As for PP, People Change....


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## Ricky (Jan 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *Hmmm... I wonder if this is a prelude to finally updating Hypercard? *


Alright!  Just what I need; QuickTime 3 support with WebStar software!


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## twister (Jan 14, 2003)

For those of who have keynote, how good is the flash import function?

We have clients that want to change flash files to movies to put on a DVD for trade-shows and such.  So in Flash MX i go export as mov and it doesn't recognize any movie clips, rendering the movie file unusable.

So will Keynote import swf or flas nicely so i can them export them as working movie files?

Did i explain that good enough?

Twister


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