# Is Jaguar worth the money?



## FrankH (Sep 1, 2002)

Hi everyone,

do not feel offended that I made that provocative statement, but I think that we ought to discuss that.

Well, I admit, Jaguar is a lot better than 10.1, especialliy concerning performance and usability. It also added a set of cool features ... e.g. the preview app or the new network services.

First of all, I wanna make clear that I really like working with OS X, but it is really justifiable to pay 160  (that is about 150 dollars I think) for an update that might fix some bugs  (but also brings others instead) and is a bit faster than the previous version? Do I pay something for an Service Pack for Windows 2000 or XP?
You might say, that there are a lot apps with cool features and so on ... a Messenger, the new address book, iCal ... sorry, I'm not impressed, that are things you normally get for free.
And, of course, the .Mac services ...  it is like Apple chose the "Microsoft way". Why should anyone pay 50 $ for a mail address, some disc space and a simple backup program?

Others might say that, in the case of Jaguar, you pay for quality and quality is costy. But let's face it!
When reading threads in this forums, you always emphasize the "superiority" of OS X over Windows. I am using Windows XP, and believe me, it is really stable, comfortable to use and fast and that with a minimum of 256 M of RAM. (In OS X you can forget everything under 512 M)
Be realistic, XP is not that bad as you claim.
In some aspects OS X still is technologically behind, e.g. the Scheduler of OS X is really an inferior one I heard from some people. That is the reason why Virtual PC under MAC OS X is slower than under OS 9.
Some critisize that Apple chose an UNIX kernel for its new OS. They could have developed a new one based on newer technologies like Microsoft did with NT or IBM did with OS/2.

OK ... as I said, OS X is an awesome operation system, I realy like it, but we have to be realistic.

Bye,

FrankH


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## uoba (Sep 1, 2002)

I think you'll find this argument has been 'done to death' on macosx.com ,over and before Jaguar's release.

   

But if your interested, worth every penny IMHO!


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 1, 2002)

I agree the price does seem a bit steep, but keep in mind that this is more than just a service pack. Quite a lot of new features have been added to the OS (so I'm told; my copy isn't here yet.) But hey, if you're a student or faculty member of an educational institution, you can get almost half off the price! Yay!

And to digress a little, I think the "Family Pack" type deal (5 licenses for $199) is a very cool idea. Finally a company is recognizing the existence of multi computer households that want to upgrade everything. At only $40 per copy, that isn't bad, and even if you only need two, you're still saving money on each one.


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## xaqintosh (Sep 1, 2002)

definitely worth it!


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## themacko (Sep 1, 2002)

In my opinion, it's not worth the $130 US.  That just seems like waaaay too much money for something I view as simply an 'upgrade.'  Luckily, I just purchased my Mac about 3 weeks ago, so 10.2 is well worth the $21.53 it cost me.

I suppose it all depends on what your priorities are, but there are a lot of better things I can do with $130 than simply update my computer.


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## vanguard (Sep 1, 2002)

No, it's not worth the money.  My iBook is still very slow for web browsing.  The jag speed increase has been oversold.

The only new feature that I've benefitted from is iChat and that's not worth the $70 I paid for it (student disc).

$30 would have been more on target.  Also, jag is buggy.  Sleep doesn't work right anymore and it's crashed on me (10.1 never did).

Vanguard

PS  The fact that you have to apologize for three paragraphs tells us that this board is way to biased.  They'll drink any kool-aid that Apple sells.


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## pianophile (Sep 1, 2002)

I want to believe that jag is worth $129, but it has caused so many problems for me that I have gone back to 10.1.5 for now. (I work with audio apps mostly, and audio is so completely broken under 10.2, everything has to be updated. It's a new OS all over again)


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## Jason (Sep 1, 2002)

IMO it really depends on how much money you have

as someone who is poor, and really cant afford to shell out 130 whenever whereever, its not worth it for me...

but if i was richer, and wasnt worrying about making bills every month, then it would definately be worth it

to me it just depends on how rich you are *shrugs*


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## Zeigan (Sep 1, 2002)

I think it is worth the money.  It is more than a service pack.  If you want to get into that arguement, then is windows 98, 98se, and millenium worth their cost?

So far, most people have reported speed increases.  If you install, do a clean install.  Installing it over a previous one is at bigger risk for getting errors and problems.  I didnt do a clean install first and problems with itunes, ichat, my mouse, mail, and several programs that would freeze the computer up... When i reinstalled, everything has been working smoothly, except my firewire drives..grrr.


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## vanguard (Sep 1, 2002)

Oh yeah that's right, add audio to my list of bugs.  I couldn't get the machine to make any noise at all so I had to reboot.

Vanguard

PS  If you have to do a clean install for it to work right than OSX sucks.  W2K can update 95 with less trouble than I've had with jag.

PPS  Upgrading Linux or Solaris never required a clean install either.  If apple requires this then we should revolt.  Let's keep our standards above msft's.


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## Zeigan (Sep 1, 2002)

Vanguard.. How many computers have you had work correctly after updating win95 to 2000.  Some will work perfectly.  Some will not work at all.  A friend of mine didnt do a clean install on jag and its working perfectly for him.  He is a computer programmer and very computer literate, so he has put it through some hard testing.  It just depends on the machine its being installed on.  It is always recommended to do a clean install.


When win2k came out, remember those hundred thousand bugs.  Nothing is perfect when it is released.  

As for apologizing, people who apologize before saying anything dont want to piss anyone off and want to keep there thread clean of crap.  If you go to a pc forum and start with anything about macs, your thread instantly turns into they suck because this..........

Just realize that it is a new product.  If you dont like it, dont use it.  Take it back to the store and say you do not feel it is worth it.  Say it is to buggy and you want to wait.  All of my experiences with apple reps has been really good.


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## vanguard (Sep 1, 2002)

I have only upgraded one machine from 95 to W2k.  I'll grant you the fact that it's too small a sample to be *really* meaningful.

I also tend to put an OS though it's paces.  I am a professional computer programmer during the day and a Comp Sci grad student at night.  I guess I'm just frustrated because my machine is too slow and jag is too buggy for me.  

Part of the reason I upgraded was that I wanted to be on Apple's preferred version.  I want to get their updates, new software, etc.  Charging me $70 just cost them the karma they gained when I got iPhoto for free.

Vanguard


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## Dak RIT (Sep 1, 2002)

You accuse Apple of taking the "Microsoft way", and yet in your review of Jaguar the only thing you do is an obvious new features list... you sound like you've been a Windows user all your life (you only look for obvious new features you'll never use anyway but somehow justify cost and upgrade).

The first thing you have to remember about the price is Apple hasn't charged for an upgrade for MacOS X yet... it's been about 2 years.  10.1 was free, so it's due... not to mention I think Apple has a right to earn money on OS X *sometime*.  I'm sorry, comparing the 10.2 upgrade to a Microsoft service pack is a joke.

Now... Jaguar does have its list of flashy new "ohhh-look-at-that-mommy" features... iChat, new Mail and Address Book, iCal, Sherlock 3, a new Finder, Rendezvous, Inkwell, etc.  Plus it's been polished up around the edges.  So you can't really say it's lacking in that department.  My personal 2 favorites are the vastly improved kernel (which you may not ever even notice) and Quartz Extreme (just open some movies up in QuickTime on 10.1 versus on 10.2... try dragging them around while playing, resizing them, moving transparencies over them, etc... HUGE difference).  I am really excited that Apple is continuing to drastically enhance the technology built in to OS X, and not simply be content with what exists now and look to polish the edges off.  I still want to play more with Rendezvous, although that is quite compelling as well.

I think it's also fair to point out that if you compare the price of MacOS X against that of Windows XP, MacOS X is cheaper... even if compare the cost of buying MacOS X 10.0 *and* MacOS X 10.2 against Windows XP Pro (and XP doesn't come with free professional development tools... well *I* care ).

OK, and on to the requirements... you quote MacOS X 10.2 as requiring 512MB against Windows XP's 256MB.  As you can see on Apple's web site, Jaguar only requires 128MB (I would recommend 256MB though... it runs fine at 256).  Source: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M8712LL/A

Windows XP is imho *usable* for home/business users with minimal demands.  It is not however a mature or professional OS for reasons I'm not going to get into here.  I recommend MacOS X to everyone now except hardcore gamers (I tell them to get a PlayStation 2), and in some server/database areas where Linux/FreeBSD or Solaris is still a better choice.  Is Windows XP that bad?  No, but it isn't that good either.

Try doing some research on MacOS X and try it out for yourself... I think you'll agree.

Cheers,
Dak


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## vanguard (Sep 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dak RIT _
> *My personal 2 favorites are the vastly improved kernel (which you may not ever even notice) and Quartz Extreme *



What is it about the updated kernel that you like?  I wasn't aware of any signifigant changes.

Vanguard


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## robobok (Sep 2, 2002)

It makes the OS more stable i guess?


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## vanguard (Sep 2, 2002)

The kernel's job is to handle the resource allocation for the machine.  It determines which process gets timeslices of the cpu, what block of memory your data goes into, etc.  Basically, it's a scheduler and an accountant that hands out the resources.

There is a lot that goes into doing this well.  I truely believe modern operating systems are the cumulation of human logic up to this point in history.  The deeper I get into my studies, the more impressed I am.

Anyway, I haven't noticed or heard about any drastic changes in the kernel.  I wonder what he saw?

Vanguard


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## supermonkey (Sep 2, 2002)

for what 10.2 is,  $130 was silly IMO.  I appreciate Apple's work, but this was just an attempt to fill the coffers.  When they actually come out with a significant improvement, I can only imagine how much more than $129 it will cost, since they've pretty much set the bar at this point.


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## modelamac (Sep 2, 2002)

All this discussion about Jaguar's value is moot...it is what it is in "the eye of the beholder".  Time is better spent finding solutions to the problems with 10.2 and learning to fully utilize the new features in it.

This is just one point of view, and we all know what that is worth.

That said, I'm looking forward to the arrival of my copy, so I can see what it does for me.  I work in 9 and play in X.  When X becomes close to the equal of 9 for my needs, I will migrate, and not before.


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## valdok (Sep 2, 2002)

Maybe if it was a bit more polished and clean, (less buggy), it *might* be worth it.  That's a pretty big if though.  I consider most of the things included in 10.2 as things that should have been included in the intial release of X, and I think this should have been at least 50% if not less than the advertised cost.  Then again, we will get updates for it that will optimize the preformance and lessen the amount of bugs; but it's a matter of too much too late.


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## evildan (Sep 2, 2002)

Sorry FrankH,

Had to move this thread from the MacOSX System and Software to the "Opinions" forum. It's a better fit here I think, since you're asking for an opinion rather then actually having a technical issue with the system software.


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