# How to speed up a PowerMac G4, or is this as fast as it gets?



## LABachlr (Jul 10, 2004)

I used to work on Macs a while ago, but I went to PC because of a larger client base.  However, I would like to get back into Mac's as well.

In any case, I have a potential client who has the following system:

PowerMac 4,5 v. 2.1
800MHz
100Mhz bus
768MB

He is running Jaguar and claims that his system is running slow.  He says that it has been running slow ever since he got it.  He is comparing it to PC's of today.  He has the MS Office suite installed, and was told by various sources that the programs in that suite run slow.  Is this true?

He has pleny of RAM, as you guys can see, and he has about 55GB left on his HD, so there is no lack of space that would cause the system to slow down.

He was also told that he should run a disk optimization program on his system.

The thing is, as I got talking to him, he mentioned that he usually has the following programs open at all times:

Entourage
Contacts Manager
Safari
MS Word
MS Excell
MS Powerpoint

I know that on a PC with the above specs (even with the cpu a little faster to match the speed of a mac 800MHz cpu), having all of those programs open at once would definitely slow it down.  I told him this, but he still feels that his system could be faster.

The way he tested the speed of his system over the phone with me was by hitting Option + P for the printing dialogue window to come up.  He counted, and said that it took a full 2.5 seconds for it to come up.  Is this normal?  He only had Text Editor, Contacts Manager, and Safari open at the time.

Is this a case of the user expecting too much from the computer, or is his system slow.  I'm sure you guys might need more info, but this is all from just talking to him on the phone, and I have no more info right now.

Is there a benchmark program that I can have him run to see if his system is up-to-par with regards to speed?  If so, could you guys post the link, and the minimum benchmark results that this system should get?

Just to give you some info, this system is on a network in a building, and the network is absolutely infested with spyware, viruses, and trojans.  I just cleaned up two other systems in the building that were completely taken over by pop-ups and trojan horses.  One system could not be saved and had to be reformatted.

Are there any viruses for Mac, or at least for Jaguar?  I know that there are very few viruses for Mac's, which is pretty cool, but is it still possible?  He has had the system for two years, and has Norton AV on his sytem, but I'm sure the virus definition subscription has run out.  Also, he stopped using Norton anyway because it was slowing down his system.  Speed is really important to him.

In any case, if you guys could just give me some pointers on how to troubleshoot the speed of this guy's system, I'd appreciate it.  And free tools to do this that I could download would also be a great help.

Thanks.


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## chevy (Jul 10, 2004)

1) 10.3 is faster than 10.2
2) is there anything open in the background ? Look in the Activity Monitor, even tasks that have a low CPU (sometimes less than 5%) can degrade reaction time. Sometimes background applications can cause problems, like Konfabulator.
3) correct the permissions (disk utility), as bad permissions can cause instabilities.
4) it may be usefull to make a clean install ??

I am writing this email on an old 400 MHg G3 runing 10.3.4, and I don't feel it's slow as long as I don't ask for some CPU demanding task.


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## powermac (Jul 10, 2004)

If he has never maintained the system, it may be slow with a lot of apps taking the cpu over. Chevy has a good point, a clean install is a pain in the a$$, but it also solves a lot of problems. In this case, it is probably recommended.


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## perfessor101 (Jul 10, 2004)

Taking the questions in order:
Microsoft applications on the Macintosh tend to be memory hogs and are suspected of having memory leaks, so with all those apps open, even with 768 MB of RAM, there may be paging to the swapfiles going on. In the Finder Go menu select go to folder and enter "/private/var/vm/" and see if there are any swapfiles. This will tell you if any significant paging is taking place. In addition, assuming he is using Office v.X there have been five patches released by Microsoft. Some of them are related to security issues but some also deal with performance issues. The patches are available here.
File and disk defragmentation are not a bad idea at all on his machine. In Panther (OS X 10.3) there is some limited drive optimization but even there, occasionally running a full blown defragmenting utility such as Drive 10 1.1.5 or TechTool Pro 4.0.2 can be helpful.
I just tried the Command+P on my G4/1.25 with 1.5 GB RAM running Safari and it took less than a second to come up. On a G3/600 iBook with 640 MB of RAM running MS Word v.X took 7.79 seconds. Given these were single trials I would not place too much weight on either number as being representative of anything.
There is an excellent benchmark utility that will test not only his system but allow comparison with other similarly configured Macs called XBench
*At the present time* there are no known viruses, trojans, or spyware capable of infecting OS X. That is subject to change at any time. However it is possible for a Mac to forward an infected file to other computers. There are three anti-virus utilities for OS X, Norton Anti-virus, Intego Virus Barrier, and Virex 7.2 or 7.5 beta. NAV has been implicated in reduced system performance and Virex for OS X is only available as a perquisite for subscribing to .Mac.
 There are some basic steps you can take for improving system performance. These include 
Upgrading to OS X 10.3 (Panther). OS X is still a relatively young and immature OS so each release has brought improved performance over its predecessors.
Obtain either Cocktail or Onyx and run them regularly to flush all the log files, clean out the caches, etc.
Institute a regular maintenance schedule featuring TechTool Pro 4 or DiskWarrior to keep the file system healthy. I prefer TechTool Pro because I can set it and forget it until a problem is detected.
Defragment the hard drive
If there are any third party utilities, haxies, etc running in the background, disable or remove them from the system.


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## Perseus (Jul 10, 2004)

Ive always wondered if the bus speed has anything to do with overall performance...cause I know for a fact the new machines have a lot more. I am not sure I am only making a small guess.


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## perfessor101 (Jul 11, 2004)

Perseus said:
			
		

> Ive always wondered if the bus speed has anything to do with overall performance


 Bus speed is a definite contributor to overall system performance, although what the exact level of contribution is would be hard to say. But all else being equal the machine with the faster bus speed will be the fastest. 

When most people talk about bus speed they are thinking of the system bus but don't forget there is more than one bus in every computer. There is the system bus, the memory bus, the IDE/ATA bus, the firewire bus, the USB bus, PCI bus, _etc_ and each of these makes its contribution to overall system performance. That's one reason why putting a faster CPU in an older machine seldom, if ever, yields performance equal to a newer machine running the same CPU at the same clock rate.


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## mi5moav (Jul 11, 2004)

well with your friends rational I have an 800mhz imac and it takes 4 seconds to open print dialog so damn he has one fast mac for a 3+ year old machine with only a 100mhz frontside bus opening all those apps on.

Compared to my HP running at 2800 on AMDS scale it takes me 4 minutes to cance a print document of 300 pages where it takes 18 seconds on the mac. Everything is relative. If I had a bat in my hands and was stuck in dark alley with gates and ballmer I would probably want barry bonds arms, if I were trying to get away from 1000 rabid pit bulls on my bike I would probably wish for lance armstrongs legs.


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## Natobasso (Jul 11, 2004)

You know, if he's opening the print dialogue box and it's slow, it may not even be his computer necessarily but his print connection. Is he connected to a print server or is it a straight computer to printer connection? Some printers that are queried by a mac are faster than others. For example, my canon 950i at home reacts a bit faster than the canon fiery at work (even though the work computer travels at light speed compared to my home printer) but that's simply because my home printer is not served among a company full of people.

Are there other peripherals connected to your client's computer? Any other USB or Firewire devices connected? Let us know some more particulars.  
This is definitely an interesting question.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

Thanks for your very informative posts.  I think the first thing that was causing his slow down in performance is his thinking that he could have 6 apps, of which 3 are known to be resource hogs on Macs, and not have any decrease in performance.

Another thing is that he most likely has not maintained his PC (defragging, re-setting permissions, etc.).  However, a re-install is a bit out of the question, as he has no backup of Office X.  He uses those programs daily, as most of his business associates are on a PC platform, and they are constantly sharing files.  

Do any of the apps that come with Jaguar have the ability to read Office documents?  If so, do they stay in the exact same format, or does the file loose a little of its formatting, as is the case in most situations when you open up a file that was made with another app, even though the app you are using is supposed to have the ability to read the other app's files without any problems?

With regards to the printer, I am not sure if the printer he is using is directly hooked up to his computer, or if it is hooked up to his secretary's computer with which his computer is networked.  I'm going to assume that he has his own printer.  But, you're right, it could also be one printer on a printer server.

I think step one would be to use XBench and see how the computer fairs.  Of course, no apps will be running while this app is run.

Btw, I know this may sound pretty novice-like to you guys, but it has been a while since I have worked on Macs.  To install XBench, do I just double-click on the file that I download from the site and go thru a wizard like on PC's, or is there something else to do.  I remember reading quickly how to install another Mac app, and it mentioned physically moving the program to the Apps folder.  However, that is the case for PC's at times as well.

Not sure if I will do the test, or if he will.  If I do the test, and take this project on, I will post the results as I get them.

Thanks again.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

Will an upgrade to Panther help out a lot, or will only a clean install of Panther give noticeable results?

Also, what about updating the software via Mac's Update Software like PC's have Windows Update?  Would that help?

And what is the speed of the hard drive for this system?  I assume that it is at least 5400RPM, right?  Is it a 7200RPM drive?  I highly doubt Mac put a 4200RPM drive in a G4.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jul 12, 2004)

go for a clean install of panther. I admit I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know what it's actually about. However, I highly dissuade from updating operating systems (not talking about small updates such as 10.3.x)


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> go for a clean install of panther. I admit I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know what it's actually about. However, I highly dissuade from updating operating systems (not talking about small updates such as 10.3.x)



I wish I could, but he does not have the install disks for Office X, which he needs to run his business.


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## perfessor101 (Jul 12, 2004)

LABachlr said:
			
		

> ...<snip>... However, a re-install is a bit out of the question, as he has no backup of Office X...<snip>...Do any of the apps that come with Jaguar have the ability to read Office documents?  If so, do they stay in the exact same format, or does the file loose a little of its formatting, ...<snip>...With regards to the printer, I am not sure if the printer he is using is directly hooked up to his computer, or if it is hooked up to his secretary's computer with which his computer is networked....<snip>...I think step one would be to use XBench and see how the computer fairs.  Of course, no apps will be running while this app is run....<snip>... To install XBench, do I just double-click on the file that I download from the site ,,,<snip>...


 
That sounds suspiciously like he is running a pirated copy of Office v.X. Unfortunately the quickest repair for Office v.X is often to delete Office using the Remove Office utility on the install CD and then reinstall the app from scratch. His not having the original install CD is not a good thing.
Not even Office v.X for the Mac is 100% compatible with Office for Windows. There are several apps that will open and read Office files but none of them will yield 100% translation particularly if high level features have been used. AppleWorks which is bundled with the consumer level Macs will open and save in Word format, but it is probably the weakest of the bunch. 
Network printers are going to take a lot longer to open than local printers will. I previously gave some numbers for opening printers and the 7+ second opening was a shared printer on another computer.
XBench does not tell you about application performance, but it does give an indication of the system hardware performance relative to other Macs.
XBench is downloaded as a device image file (.dmg). You double click to open the device image which then mounts on the desktop just like another drive. Drag the XBench executable from there to the /Applications folder at the root of the hard drive. Restart the computer and then double click on the XBench icon in the /Applications folder to run the test.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

Thanks, perfessor.  Your posts are always well organized and informative.  

1. If he were to get Panther, would an "archive and install" allow him to keep his Office X apps?

2. Would he also have all of his old email in the "archive and install" method?  If not, how does one back up the email archive file?  Where is it located for Entourage?  He uses Entourage for his email.

3. Is there any way to do an upgrade to Panther besides doing a "clean install" (he would lose Office X in a clean install) that will not have the issues that one has when "upgrading" vs. doing a "clean install?"


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

If I were to do an Archive and Preserve when installing Panther (if he opts to upgrade to Panther), would it be like a fresh install, and also preserve Office X?

Does Office X install files into the system or system library folders, which would dictate that it be re-installed.

I think he may have lost the Office X disks, but I'm not sure. He didn't say.


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## fryke (Jul 12, 2004)

Office is very easy to keep. Just backup the Office folder in /Applications and put it back where it belongs after reinstalling. I suggest making a good backup first. You'll find instructions about backing up and reinstalling here - http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/03/01#20040301_backup - at macnews.net.tc.

I'd suggest a _really_ clean install, too! I.e.: Reformat that harddrive before installing Jaguar/Panther.

Archive/Reinstall does save a copy of everything needed while installing a clean system. I.e. you'd have to refit the stuff by hand (just like with a backup), finding old Mails and Mail's settings in ~/Library/Mail - for example.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> Office is very easy to keep. Just backup the Office folder in /Applications and put it back where it belongs after reinstalling. I suggest making a good backup first. You'll find instructions about backing up and reinstalling here - http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/03/01#20040301_backup - at macnews.net.tc.
> 
> I'd suggest a _really_ clean install, too! I.e.: Reformat that harddrive before installing Jaguar/Panther.
> 
> Archive/Reinstall does save a copy of everything needed while installing a clean system. I.e. you'd have to refit the stuff by hand (just like with a backup), finding old Mails and Mail's settings in ~/Library/Mail - for example.



Great.  Thanks.

A few questions...

1.  So, all I have to backup are these four folders?

A. /Users/yourshortusername
B. /System/Library/Application Support
C. /Library/Application Support
D. /Applications/Office X _(or whatever Mac names that folder)_

2.  Can I back them up on CD by simply burning them to a CD?

3.  Why do you use Terminal?  Is that necessary?  Couldn't he just drag and drop those folders on the external drive?  

4.  Is it because these folders can not be viewed because they are system folders?  If so, isn't there a way, like in Windows, where you can set it to "show system files/folders"?

5.  If I do need to use Terminal, will I still be able to burn these folders onto a CD?  How do I access Terminal?  Does it come with Jaguar or is it a third party software?  If 3rd party, where can I get it?

6.  I assume that I just drag and drop the contents of these system folders into the new system folders?  And the new ones will have the same exact path?

7.  Won't moving these system files to the new system potentially bring the problems that the old system was having with it?  Won't these sytem files be for Jaguar and not for Panther?

8.  Again, where would the data files for Entourage (where all of his old email is) and Contacts Manager be?  Will they all be in the Home/User folder?  Or are they in their respective app's folder?


Sorry for all of the questions, but I used to work on Macs, and am trying to get up to speed as quickly as possible.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

Just figured out that Terminal is Apple's command prompt:

http://images.apple.com/education/technicalresources/pdf/Terminal_App_070803.pdf

Burning is out of the question with this program.  Is there any other way to backup these folders other than via Terminal and an external drive?


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## perfessor101 (Jul 12, 2004)

The archive and install is essentially a clean install of the OS but, if you tell it to, it leaves all of the user files, applications, settings, etc. untouched. You just wind up with a new OS.
Archive and install preserves all of his personal files including Mail. It just replaces the OS executables and some of the Apple application files.
Be sure and run Disk Utility > Disk Repair from the install CD *before* the installation to be sure his file system is healthy and then run Disk Utility > Permission repair from the hard drive *after* the upgrade and updates.
After installing Panther, be sure and run the Software Update to get your client up to OS X 10.3.4. There are several security patches and performance enhancements over the basic 10.3.
10.3 will be faster than 10.2, but don't expect it to blow your client's socks off. Most of the speed improvements are in improved memory management and there is some automatic optimization that will also take place after several hours of operation that will also provide some marginal improvements.


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## LABachlr (Jul 12, 2004)

OK.  Great.  Thanks, perfessor.


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## LABachlr (Jul 14, 2004)

Just wanted to update you guys.  I walked him through repairing permissions and had him reboot right after.  He said that the windows open a little faster, but they still are not the "speed that he expected."  Not sure if he has unreasonable expectations or not.  He stated that he would be interested in upgrading to Panther in a few months.  I also gave him a bunch of tips that you guys supplied.  I'll be doing the upgrade, and will let you know how it goes.  Thanks for the help.


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## Natobasso (Jul 14, 2004)

If he's worried about opening windows faster, then have him switch his settings in general preferences from Genie to Scale.

So what is he basing his speed expectations on as a standard? Sounds like a very picky client indeed!


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## perfessor101 (Jul 14, 2004)

LABachlr said:
			
		

> If I were to do an Archive and Preserve when installing Panther (if he opts to upgrade to Panther), would it be like a fresh install, and also preserve Office X?
> 
> Does Office X install files into the system or system library folders, which would dictate that it be re-installed.
> 
> I think he may have lost the Office X disks, but I'm not sure. He didn't say.


 
*Yes*
*Yes* Office does install fonts into the /Library/Fonts folder, but not into the /System/Library/Fonts folder. It also installs the applications themselves into the /Applications folder (all these folders are "owned" by System). The rest of the Office Stuff will go into the User's home folder.  *No* they will not be erased or destroyed by an Archive and Preserve.  
It would be better if he could find them. There is always the possibility he made need to do a reinstall at some point in the future. I have had to remove and reinstall Office more than once to restore some feature or functionality that got broken. Office is the only product I have ever had to do that with.


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## LABachlr (Jul 15, 2004)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> If he's worried about opening windows faster, then have him switch his settings in general preferences from Genie to Scale.
> 
> So what is he basing his speed expectations on as a standard? Sounds like a very picky client indeed!



Will do.  Thanks.

Not sure what he is basing it on.  I think he thought that since he bought the fastest computer system at the time of the purchase (I guess it was about 1 1/2 years ago, not three; not sure if that was top of the line then or not), that its speed should be blazing.  I think he is basing it more on his expectations than he is on any comparisons.  

I can't tell if he is picky or not, as I won't be able to tell until I actually see the system perform in person.  Even then, I won't really have anything to compare it to, as I have not worked on Macs in a while.  I may just go into a store and check them out so I can get an idea of Mac's speeds nowadays.  I plan on getting a used Mac soon so I can start fooling around with it.


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## LABachlr (Jul 15, 2004)

perfessor101 said:
			
		

> *Yes*
> *Yes* Office does install fonts into the /Library/Fonts folder, but not into the /System/Library/Fonts folder. It also installs the applications themselves into the /Applications folder (all these folders are "owned" by System). The rest of the Office Stuff will go into the User's home folder.  *No* they will not be erased or destroyed by an Archive and Preserve.
> It would be better if he could find them. There is always the possibility he made need to do a reinstall at some point in the future. I have had to remove and reinstall Office more than once to restore some feature or functionality that got broken. Office is the only product I have ever had to do that with.



OK.  Thanks, perfessor.  I'll ask him about the disks.  Pretty funny that Office X is the only program suite that had to be reinstalled.  I have also heard that MS Office performs slower on Mac's then on PC's.  Are these coincidences, or is there a hidden agenda...


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## LABachlr (Jul 15, 2004)

Btw, Natobasso, how do you like your Powerbook Pismo G3?  That's one that I am considering getting (PB Pismo G3 500 w/640MB RAM).  Would you suggest getting one, or should I aim higher on account of today's needs?  Would you be able to tell me specs of a PC system that would be of comparable speed so I can get an idea how fast it is?


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## fbp_ (Jul 15, 2004)

office x doesnt need anything other than its folder


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## perfessor101 (Jul 16, 2004)

LABachlr said:
			
		

> I have also heard that MS Office performs slower on Mac's then on PC's.  Are these coincidences, or is there a hidden agenda...


 There is no hidden agenda. The Microsoft Mac Business Unit did rewrite substantial portions of Office to be "more Mac like" and to improve some previously pretty dismal performance issues. But major portions of the code are still a port from Windows and the PC. And some of that PC code is a long way from being up to modern coding standards. That makes reasonable economic sense for Microsoft to do it that way, but Office is not in any way fully optimized for the Macintosh it is just optimized _"enough"_ to be acceptable.

You might like to take a look at this blog from a Microsoft Mac Business Programmer. It is long, but it will give you an idea of what they have to contend with in developing a product on two very different platforms.


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## pds (Jul 16, 2004)

No-one has mentioned a fundamental house-keeping chore that could speed up the system a bit, running the cron tasks. They are tasks to delete log files and seem to help performance a bit. They should be done daily, weekly and monthly, but they are scheduled to run at 4 am, a time when the computer is usually off or asleep.

Cocktail will let you do them, or you can run them at the terminal.

at the "command prompt" in terminal, type "sudo periodic daily" and enter the password of the admin user when it asks for it.
When the cursor comes back, do the same for "weekly" and then "monthly"


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## LABachlr (Jul 16, 2004)

perfessor101 said:
			
		

> There is no hidden agenda. The Microsoft Mac Business Unit did rewrite substantial portions of Office to be "more Mac like" and to improve some previously pretty dismal performance issues. But major portions of the code are still a port from Windows and the PC. And some of that PC code is a long way from being up to modern coding standards. That makes reasonable economic sense for Microsoft to do it that way, but Office is not in any way fully optimized for the Macintosh it is just optimized _"enough"_ to be acceptable.
> 
> You might like to take a look at this blog from a Microsoft Mac Business Programmer. It is long, but it will give you an idea of what they have to contend with in developing a product on two very different platforms.



Is the Microsoft Mac Business Unit made up of both Mac and MS programmers?  If not, I would think that would be the wise thing to do to get the programming up to today's standards.

Thanks for the blog link.  I'll check it out.


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## LABachlr (Jul 16, 2004)

pds said:
			
		

> No-one has mentioned a fundamental house-keeping chore that could speed up the system a bit, running the cron tasks. They are tasks to delete log files and seem to help performance a bit. They should be done daily, weekly and monthly, but they are scheduled to run at 4 am, a time when the computer is usually off or asleep.
> 
> Cocktail will let you do them, or you can run them at the terminal.
> 
> ...



Cool.  Thanks.


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## LABachlr (Jul 16, 2004)

Btw, how do you access Terminal?


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## pds (Jul 16, 2004)

carefully 

_I_ click on the terminal icon in my dock 

it is in the utilities folder in the applications folder

take care using it... sometimes a space in the wrong place can toast a whole system


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## LABachlr (Jul 16, 2004)

pds said:
			
		

> carefully
> 
> _I_ click on the terminal icon in my dock
> 
> ...



LOL.  OK.  Will take care.

Wow, just a space will toast the system.  Pretty insane.  In Windows, when using the command prompt, if something is mistyped, it just states "bad command" or "not recognized."

I will definitely get acquainted with it before I start using it as a tool.  Thanks for the tip.


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## perfessor101 (Jul 16, 2004)

LABachlr said:
			
		

> Is the Microsoft Mac Business Unit made up of both Mac and MS programmers?  If not, I would think that would be the wise thing to do to get the programming up to today's standards.


 The issue is not the programmers themselves it is the tens and hundreds of thousands of lines of legacy code within Office and within Windows itself.


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## LABachlr (Jul 17, 2004)

perfessor101 said:
			
		

> The issue is not the programmers themselves it is the tens and hundreds of thousands of lines of legacy code within Office and within Windows itself.



OK.  Makes sense.


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