# Should I join the AirForce?



## kilowatt (Nov 27, 2001)

I am seriously concidering joing up with the AirForce, and I'd like some opinions on the airforce and stuff.

College sucks, and I don't think its for me.

Anyone here ever deal with the airforce, specifically with 'basic training'?


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## AdmiralAK (Nov 27, 2001)

From what I hear basic training is a biatch, but if you can get past it then you should be OK.

I would stick with college personally THEN join if you want.  It might help you out 

what year are you in and what is your major ?


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## kilowatt (Nov 28, 2001)

I'm in Electrical Engineering. Its a neat field, and the only class I accell at is my EE class. The others (chem, calc, etc) are either impossable or just stupid.

Basically, I have no motivation. 

I just feel sick of college. And I have a friend going into the AF, so I thought it might be a good idea to work in pairs. 

College is just SO..... sucky ;-) can't put it much better. 


What I've found out is that doing well in college basically requires a change of lifestyle (would for me anyway). I'm the kid that sits in the back of the class in High School and gets good grades because he already knew most of it or it just comes natural. In College, that just doesn't fly. And when the professor starts dishing out homework  which they will check (why?), I get pissed. 

In the Airforce, on the other hand, I'm hoping for a lack-of-bs. I don't want stupid pointless work. And I don't want the extra frills I don't need. 

So far, all I've done in college is waste my time and my parents money. Which isn't a very honorable or desirable thing to do.

I'm hoping this recruit dude will take me out to lunch and sell it to me, because this basic training thing is really scareing me off.

its 6 weeks, and you have to run two miles in twelve minutes with 40 pound back packs, from what I hear. I also hear its easier than the Army and the Navy. 

My current run time for one mile is 10 minutes...


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## sithious (Nov 28, 2001)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt _
> *In the Airforce, on the other hand, I'm hoping for a lack-of-bs. I don't want stupid pointless work.  *



... hmmm ... running two miles in twelve minutes with 40 pound backpacks sounds like stupid pointless work to me ...


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## AdmiralAK (Nov 28, 2001)

FOr a jedi master maybe its pointless since you have the force with you  lol 

In any case, I have 3 more semesters left.  I am tired of school, but that is just how I feel.  In life, in general you cannot expect to "sit back and get good grades", hard work is required and that will be true whether you stay in school, get a job, or join the air force.  Its just a fact of life.


I am a CS major, and at times it gets on my nerves (especially makefiles, C, and assembly) but I am sticking to it... I am not even learning about new technologies  just RS232 which is dying and LPT1 ports...

oh well... such is life 


Admiral


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## gumse (Nov 28, 2001)

"I'm hoping for a lack-of-bs."

Hehe, from my time in the Swedish Engineering Corps I remember 80% of the time as bs.


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## Soapvox (Nov 28, 2001)

I know not everyone is a pacifist, but do you think you can take part of killing 100's of thousands if not millions of children each year? You may not pull the trigger but the US policies of Nation building lead to children all over the world dying, I know I could not have that on my concience (?SP) I am a high school drop out and taught myself computers and now make a lot of money in san francisco and am completely happy, but the one thing I regret and want to go back and do is go to college and I will in the next few years, so I would give college another thought, or instead of the airforce try the peace corps or something like that, something that can help your fellow man, ok I will put on my flame retardant suit now, flame on


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## kilowatt (Nov 28, 2001)

First off, I disagree with everything Soapvox says, but I'm glad that he is willing to share opinions he knows are un-popular. Seriously, I enjoy debating this stuff.

Now for the meat ;-).

Your post shows just how out of perspective you really are. Take Hitler. If Hitler and company had not been put down, many many many more people would have died and suffered simply on the basis of their nationality, religion, and culture. 

You must understand, with freedom, there is sacrifice. And if you are to be truely free, you must truely believe in your freedom, and be willing to die for it.

I would concider it an honor to fight for my country, my beliefs, and my freedom. In all honesty, I would be honored to die for them too. It is devotion and servatude which sets us apart from so many other nations. 

Thousands of people die from 'ethnic clensing' arround the world, and the people who carry out the discusting act deserve death. No, soapvox, I'm not doing 'exactly what they are'. 

Bottom line, it would be nice to settle disagreements with a logical agrument. But that isn't allways the solution. Sometimes war is the only fesable answer. 

Concider the state of utter poverty that so much of the world lives in. Are these people truely happy? Do the Afgan Women enjoy hiding their faces? Do parents ejnoy risking death by sending their childern to schools? I really doubt it. 

That country needs some work. And some people may have to die for it. Like terrorists, and killers. 


And yes, innocent people. Innocent people die, and their death is what makes a war memorable. Their deaths create lasting impressions that don't easly go away. They will be remembered. And the will be remembered as heros, patriots, and citizens who paid the ultimate price for their lifestyle. In the case of those who died on September 11th, they will be remembered as people who died for freedom. Freedom from fear, opression, and deception. Those in Afganistan will be remembered because they died for their way of life as well. Only they died for a despicable man and his widspread fear. 

And thus are casualities of war.

It is my hope that the people of Afganistan will rise agianst that fucker and the taliban, and that the unites states will help install a new system of leadership and controll that is run by the people of Afganistan.

Say what you will, and yes, the flame retardant suit of honor and freedom is out and ready for the flames to come. But hey, I'd roast for freedom anyday ;-)


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## tagliatelle (Nov 28, 2001)

Our friend Steve owns something you like.


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## kilowatt (Nov 28, 2001)

heh, I almost forgot

Yeah, running in circles does sound like BS, but it is for a purpose. That 6 week course is to filter out some of the applicants. Unlike college, which feels like a 4 year wimp-filter, I think the air force's redundand and circular tasks will amount to something.

I used to allways say to the people running track at my high school:
"Those who run in circles shall be known as wheels"

Oh, one more thing, BS is ok if its fun ;-) like when you see who can spit down the 14 flights of stairs without the spit hitting anything but the basement floor ;-)


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## kilowatt (Nov 28, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Herv?Hinnekens _
> *Our friend Steve owns something you like. *



Humm....

G4: Not enough personality
G3: Not very flexable
iBook: Too small

Titanium G4 Laptop: Just right. I hope thats what you were comparing me to ;-) It is, right?


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## tagliatelle (Nov 28, 2001)

print "I have only a graduate in informatics."


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## Soapvox (Nov 28, 2001)

To leave me speachless once again!

Kilowatt, I am about to say something brash but it is not pointed to anyone in particular especially you, because while I disagree I too enjoy our discussions, that said, there are enough people out there to join the military that need that sort of discipline to make them into better people and hopefully show them that killing is wrong, but if you are in college or have the opportunity to get into college it is not a wimp thing (and btw whats wrong with being a "Wimp") it's a different thing and through education we can resolve conflicts peacefully, while we are not at that point now and wont be in hundreds of years, we must do what each of us can to propell us to that ideal future and please don't play the hitler card because I said nothing of destroying the military, I just said that the nation building our country takes part in kills thousands of children, but imperialism and maniacalism (not sure if that is even a word) are very similar. What is the difference of killing 500,000 children in Iraq by embargo vs 500,000 Jewish people, we don't pull the trigger, that is the only difference, we allow them to die slowly because we disagree with thier leader and his practices (same with Cuba) while I disagree with thier practices as well, if they are staying in thier borders what gives us the right to tell them how to run thier country.  Ok enough of my rampbling, I await your response kilowatt


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## Steve Jobs (Nov 28, 2001)

give it a couple of months then see how you feel.


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## tagliatelle (Nov 28, 2001)

print "At Sabena it was such a bad experience never again!"


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## kilowatt (Nov 28, 2001)

echo "All terminals busy, please try again in a few minutes" > /dev/console


ie, I'll reply in a few... I have so much BS to do for this ececs class it ain't even funny


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## kilowatt (Nov 29, 2001)

echo "Terminal now available, you may continue" > /dev/console

Ok, the wimp filter thing was basically this: College weeds out the people who don't have what it takes. Thats why I'm taking English comp 101. Its the only english class I have to take, and obviously it will not make that big a difference in my writing skills to take one class. Sure, engineers need to be able to write well, I know this for a fact, but that single class is basically useless by its self, and is used only to get the people who are either too lazy to attend or the really bad writers to drop out.

Not that I think that is a good thing - many people can't write worth squat, but are extremely smart. Which is another thing about college I don't like. But I can't figure out a better way to conduct stuff - which is why I don't think college is for everyone.

I in no way meant that college is for wimps or makes people into wimps or is wimpy ;-) On the contrary, I think that college is extremely hard for the most part, and anyone who makes it through  is not a wimp at all. 

what are wimps? Humm... I guess people who don't have courage or who are susceptible to conformity weather it be to popularity or counter-culture. I suppose I just value making the most of life.

Now, to the meat of the issue ;-)

Yes, I agree, Education is extremely valuable, and if the entire world were eduicated (or a large enough percentage), it would definately help make this place more peacefull. Education is one of the factors that easily separates the US from countries like Afganistan and Cuba. Education, in its purest form leads to individual freedom, and freedom, although I think we (United States) are hated for it, is one of those things to be truly protected and valued.

Origionally, I wasn't quite sure where you were getting this starving stuff from Nation Building - glad you clarified it. However (once again - what do ya know, kilowatt things this) I think you have it out of perspective. Remember, these countries are leading to their own self-demise. For example, say country A decides to kill all people of African decent. Besides trying diplomatic channels (any country this fucked up wouldn't really listen anyway, IM(not so)HO), a trade embargo is sort of like your parents cutting off the phone and the allowance when you're a kid. I wouldn't support country A, and therefore wouldn't want to benifit their economy. Trade embargo, as you pointed out, removes the importing to country A of food. True, although there has to be some food in country A. People in conuntry A are probably allready starving, and food from other places probably doesn't get much further than its dictatorship and mercenary club. Removing outside resources (such as gas, power, food, telaphone, etc etc) from these countries hurts its infastructure and government much more than it hurts the people. 
In the USA, if we were disabled from trade, and couldn't support ourselves with our farms, the people would starv, and the government (made of regular people, and yes, some politicians are human) would also take a cut. Thus, I believe that trade embargos can be extremely effective. Sort of like smoking a fox from its hole...

PS: along the lines of my original post, you had mentioned that you dropped out of college. I bet you have an interesting story as to how you got to where you are today.. would you mind sharing?


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## tagliatelle (Nov 29, 2001)

I'm so obsessed by computers that I want to own everything about it. Because I'm 'low' paid, I want do everything to receive more. But there are in some way 'limits'.


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## tagliatelle (Nov 29, 2001)

I want to do architecture because it's higher paid than the job I'm actually doing, but I also know that if I'm paid for what I learned at school that I have more. Honestly I'm not feeling good with it.


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## Soapvox (Nov 29, 2001)

I am a High-school drop out I was on my own and homeless at 14, tried to go to school as I could but I had to work to pay rent so school came second, but between 14-15 when I was living in the homeless shelter I would go up to the computer lab when I couldn't get work or a place to sleep so I taught myself macs (because macs are sooo easy to learn!) I did have a comodore 64 and Apple ][e when I was a kid so computers were not new to me but...

I have worked many jobs but all during that taught myself computers and html/java/php/sql so I am in a very well paying job for a SF ad agency, but I still miss the fact that I never got to go to college.  As far as those other countries being seperated by education, i agree with the afgahnistan comment but cuba has a 98% literacy rate, let see america compare to that and the way we treat cuba is an atrocity, they have been a good neighbor for the last 20 years (yes thier past was a bit sketchy but so was russias) but the problem is that they are currently communist and where is the problem with that, thewy are not threatining to take over america, so why do we have a trade embargo against them and not china, because cuba does nothing for us, where as China with thier poor human rights issues and sweat shops provide us with cheap goods.  I have more to say but will check in later when I have more time.


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## AdmiralAK (Nov 29, 2001)

Just like to comment on one thing I caught a glipse of (since I have HW to do )

College is not meant to weed out people that cant make it.  College, like other educational institutions, is meant to educate.  If people cant learn a certain subject, then they cant.  Different people are wired different ways and excell at different things.  

For example I have a love for foreign languages.  I can comprehen those concepts, rules, and what-nots.  I have set forth a goal to learn another 15 some-odd languages.  *if* I succeed kudos for  me, that doesnt mean you, soapvox, or herve can do the same.  Some people are artistic, or musically innept. That doesnt mean I can do it 


As for comp 101, its not what you do in that class, but what you take from it.  The ability to question your own writings, edit, be more thoughtful, thorough and so on.  Same applies to all classes. You learn something you take with you.


Admiral


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## RacerX (Nov 30, 2001)

Soapvox, I hope you don't take this as a flame. I mean only to engage you in a discussion about some of your recent statements.

Many of your statements regarding the the US seem to be trying to put a sinister intent into actions by the US. This is giving the US government much more credit than it deserves. US foreign policy has always been far more reactionary than deliberate. 

As a people, Americans don't generally think about the rest of the world. I don't believe this is either good or bad, or can actually be assigned any ethical intent on the part of this nation. It is simply the way it is. We care about our neighbor states because their well being effects us. This is actually not that different from European nation states, but they just consider it to be more than what it actually is. There are very few nations that register a need for our attention.

I take issue with your idea of "nation building". The US has never been an imperial power like England, France, or Spain once were. Quite the contrary, US policy would imply effort to maintain status quo. Why? So we don't have to pay attention to the rest of the world. We support current governments that don't share our political views because we don't want to take the time to "nation build", it is that painfully simple.

You brought up Iraq, no our embargo has not done anything near your assertions. The UN lets aid into Iraq. And I would point out that we as a nation are as responsible for the "killing 500,000 children in Iraq" as you personally are for the death of ANY child born to parents who could not provide for it's well being. Should we have taken out Saddom? Maybe. It would have required "nation building" on our part, and we would have had to put forces into Iraq to protect it from Iran (whom they had just finished having a war with). What were we willing to do? Help the people of Iraq take over and form a new government. Did that work? No. So here we are with status quo once again.

Your assigning of malice on the part of the US government is more justification of your own beliefs than a true reflection of reality. The US is not pro-active in foreign affairs, it is reactive. Time and time again the US has chosen status quo and apathy over "nation building". If another nation needs us (and we hear their cries over our yawns), we come running, but once the sense of emergency is gone, so is our interest.

I don't know which is worse, the powerful bully nation you seem to believe the US to be,
or the apathetic giant that only wants to worry about it's own affairs that it really is. Your view seem to imply more power, but the reality seems to imply more... clumsiness.


Oh, and kilowatt, have you thought about the Navy? It has a much broader range of opportunities than either the Air Force or the Army.


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