# 10.3.4 is out



## StarBuck (May 26, 2004)

Go and grab it : )


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## fryke (May 26, 2004)

build number?


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## Giaguara (May 26, 2004)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25764
i don't see the build number.


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## fryke (May 26, 2004)

7h63.


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

You were right in the other thread, fryke


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

*remembers to remove battery just in case*


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## Zammy-Sam (May 26, 2004)

41mb.. uffff, that will take some time.
Anyone already tested it (beside Fryke)?


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

*downloading now*
Sam, are you  on dial-up or something? Just let it run overnight


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## Zammy-Sam (May 26, 2004)

92kbytes/sec here
(DSL)
still 41mb will take some time.. And I couldn't wait for the morning even. So, will go and take a shower and check the whole update


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

ISDN here (about 14KBps) and it's taking even longer


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## fryke (May 26, 2004)

14kbps on ISDN? how do you achieve that? ISDN channels, here at least, are 64kbps. So, using two channels, you'd get 128kbps... 14kbps sounds as slow as i'm surfing when using my mobile phone. slower even... (?)


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

Whooops, my bad! 
It *is* 14*KB*ps


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## fryke (May 26, 2004)

sounds better. That's 128 kbps then, probably. (Max throughput of 128 kbps would be 16 KB/s.)


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (May 26, 2004)

Downloaded installed, all seems to be ok so far. No noticeable changes - but hey what was I expecting from a point upgrade, dancing elephants?


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## Racer D (May 26, 2004)

opengl update does not boost fps


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## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

Seems OK here too. What are some examples of non-prebound applications?


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## gerbick (May 26, 2004)

I was having problems with rejoining my network.  No matter what I put in for WEP, it was saying wrong/error with connection to (network)... well, all of a sudden, poof!  It started back working.

Will say that my startups seem to be a step slower though.


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## Satcomer (May 26, 2004)

Startup time is always slower just after the install. Try restarting now, it's the same speed on my G5 1.8D.


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## gerbick (May 26, 2004)

I didn't make that assessment until 3 reboots later.  I've timed it, and that "step slower" is a mere second.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 26, 2004)

My computer always boots a little slower right after a required restart after installation -- it's probably because I've got the ojurnaling option turned on for my drive, and the journal is being updated to reflect the recent changes to the files on the hard drive (which could number in the thousands for an update like this).  Subsequent restarts are much faster.

No problems here at all, though I might mention I downloaded the combo updater and ran that as opposed to getting it through Software Update.  No problems downloading... greater than 300kbps/sec here in Texas on a 3.0Mbit down/384k up DSL connection.

No noticeable changes, although I read through the updated items list and almost none of them apply to me.  No iPod for USB2, all my peripherals have always worked just fine since 10.0, and I've never had a problem with a hacker or some malicious exploit (and if I did, a clean reinstall would fix me in under 1 hour -- no critical data is stored on my boot drive).


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## GroundZeroX (May 26, 2004)

I have been messing with it, and it seems to be slightly smoother in Expose, but it may just be me. Everything is going great here though.


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## scruffy (May 26, 2004)

dlloyd - non-prebound applications would be any applications that haven't been prebound.

I know, not really a clear answer.  Here's the long version

Applications make library calls, to functions that are not in the program's code, but in a library - otherwise every programmer's time would be taken up writing basic generic functions, like counting the length of a string of text or whatever.  Nearly all programs will be dynamically linked, which is to say that they don't include the library, but rather ask the OS to point them to the right place whenever they want to make such a library call.

By default, that's a bit slower, since the OS then has to look up the library call they want to make, and figure out where to find the right function.  OS X uses an optimization - it 'pre-binds' applications by including, in the executable file, the last location of a library function.  Then when the program makes a library call, it can say, in effect "please execute this function.  Try looking for it here first, that's where it was last time".

So, if you download and install a program, the first time you run it, it won't be prebound.  After it makes any library call, the OS prebinds it for that call, to speed up subsequent calls.


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## Zammy-Sam (May 27, 2004)

no changes here what so ever. Slightly disappointed..


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## Chazam (May 27, 2004)

Hi everyone! Being a Mac N00B i have a question about the updates.
What one should i get? Mac OSX Combined update 10.3.4 or just the Mac OSX Update 10.3.4?
Whats the difference between the 2?
Thanks!


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## Zammy-Sam (May 27, 2004)

I would suggest you to simply use Software Update in your System Preferences. The combined update includes previous updates as well, iirc.


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## Chazam (May 27, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> I would suggest you to simply use Software Update in your System Preferences. The combined update includes previous updates as well, iirc.


When I first got our iBook I used to take it to my brother's house and network my iBook with his PC so i could use his cable internet connection but the updater used to time-out whilst using it.  I thought it was his firewall settings but today its going fine!  
I'll just use the updater now like you recommended.
Thanks.


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## fryke (May 27, 2004)

ElDiabloConCaca: I know I'm nitpicking. But you don't get 300kbps on a 3Mbps line. What you mean, probably, is 300 KB/s on a 3 Mbps line. The capital "B" stands for Bytes, the lowecase "b" for bits.


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## MacMuppet (May 27, 2004)

MoNkeY mAgIc said:
			
		

> but hey what was I expecting from a point upgrade, dancing elephants?



You mean they are'nt working for you?


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## Randman (May 27, 2004)

It's brilliant marketing, folks. Apple whets appetite's for Steve-O's Tiger demonstration.


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## Stridder44 (May 27, 2004)

Sure wish they'd put in that graphics update they had in some other build of 10.3 a while back (anyone remember that?)


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## senne (May 27, 2004)

how can i see the download speed in Software Update ? I think it was about.. 400-450 KB/s


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (May 27, 2004)

MacMuppet said:
			
		

> You mean they are'nt working for you?



Ahh yeah got them now!

ha ha aren't they cute.....

no hang on they're not dancing ......... ahhhhh ....... turn it off, turn it off!


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## Giaguara (May 27, 2004)

gerbick said:
			
		

> I was having problems with rejoining my network.  No matter what I put in for WEP, it was saying wrong/error with connection to (network)... well, all of a sudden, poof!  It started back working.
> 
> Will say that my startups seem to be a step slower though.



I have had that problem now since i updated. I can't join the network, I see the "looking for PPoE .." thing running since yesterday evening. I've got the error joining network 20 times, and I don't know whether the phone line here is dead as well .. I still can't join my network.


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## btoth (May 27, 2004)

Well, I was hoping that they at least might have fixed the graphical errors that cropped up in 10.3.3.  But no, still have the disappearing network icon and scroll bar redraw issues as mentioned here:

http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42438

I did submit it to Apple's OS X feedback... for as much as that helps.

Otherwise everything seems unchanged, USB support doesn't do me much good when my stupid 15" PowerBook doesn't supply the proper 500ma to the USB ports to power my drives.  Apple doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this problem though, even though it's all over the AppleCare discussions forum.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 27, 2004)

Graphics update?  Maybe you're thinking of ATi's update... I don't remember there being a specific driver update in any of the 10.3 point releases... I could be wrong, though!

Also, Chazam: the difference between the combo updater and the regular updater is that the combo updater can update ANY release of 10.3 to 10.3.4.  You can install a plain vanilla 10.3 install, and then use the 10.3.4 combo updater to go straight to 10.3.4.  With the smaller updater, you must already be at 10.3.3 to update to 10.3.4.  The combo updater is good to keep around since if you ever need to reinstall, you can update directly to 10.3.4.

I'll second the idea that Software Update should be used whenever possible -- it's a foolproof way to be sure you apply the correct updater.

Also, fryke: yeah, that's what I meant.  I'm just thrilled with the speed since I recently upgraded from a 1.5MBit (did I get the capitalization right this time?) to 3.0MBit and the speed improvement is phenomenal.  I had no idea a telephone line could go this fast...   I'll be sure to jump on the 6.0MBit service when it comes out, too...


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## gerbick (May 27, 2004)

Giaguara said:
			
		

> I have had that problem now since i updated. I can't join the network, I see the "looking for PPoE .." thing running since yesterday evening. I've got the error joining network 20 times, and I don't know whether the phone line here is dead as well .. I still can't join my network.


oh, it's getting worse.  My internet access is slow... and I had zero issues with 10.3.3... heck, I'm even using my Windows box more now for internet.  I'm getting more timeouts, I can't join my own network - my network is no longer listed, it joins on it's own after about 20 minutes, and sites are now timing out.  My e-mail is being slow, and it's not acting like the same machine just prior to the upgrade.

I'm suffering here.  I guess 10.3.4 doesn't like my cube.  bleh.


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## chevy (May 27, 2004)

did you repair the permissions ?


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## dlloyd (May 27, 2004)

scruffy: I see. I thought some apps were prebound, and others weren't. Permanently. I didn't know that all apps be_come_ prebound. My bad


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## gerbick (May 27, 2004)

chevy said:
			
		

> did you repair the permissions ?


yeppers.  still acting flaky.  I'm gonna karate chop something.


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## Giaguara (May 27, 2004)

repaired permission from cd before installing .3.4.
the permissions were fine after.

before i got the same thing i am getting right now. does anyne else get this? i was getting it with teh powerbook too - i am just amazed that after fixing this problem 30 hours ago from a cd (and it was fixed) i again get some issues with cdutil. oh well, never put the os x cds out of the reach of yout paws...


```
We are using special permissions for the file or directory ./System/Library/Filesystems/cd9660.fs/cd9660.util.  New permissions are 33261
Permissions differ on ./System/Library/Filesystems/cd9660.fs/cd9660.util, should be -rwxr-xr-x , they are -rwsr-xr-x 
Owner and group corrected on ./System/Library/Filesystems/cd9660.fs/cd9660.util
Permissions corrected on ./System/Library/Filesystems/cd9660.fs/cd9660.util
```


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## chevy (May 27, 2004)

Yop, I have the same "special permission" warning. On my two Macs.


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## btoth (May 27, 2004)

Giaguara said:
			
		

> repaired permission from cd before installing .3.4.
> the permissions were fine after.
> 
> before i got the same thing i am getting right now. does anyne else get this? i was getting it with teh powerbook too - i am just amazed that after fixing this problem 30 hours ago from a cd (and it was fixed) i again get some issues with cdutil. oh well, never put the os x cds out of the reach of yout paws...



I've been getting that since 10.3.3


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## Giaguara (May 27, 2004)

well. maybe the cdutil thing may be worth adding more. add something here.

google gives a lot of stuff for that cdutil thing.


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## dlloyd (May 27, 2004)

Heheh Gia, they live in my iBook bag...
I'm running Permissions Repair right now, I'll let you know if mine are broken in the same place.


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## dlloyd (May 27, 2004)

Yah, I have differing permissions on that file too


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## gerbick (May 27, 2004)

thanks.  cdutil helps me none.  

*commence random karate chops*


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 27, 2004)

Perectly normal.  Ignore the message.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107298


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## gerbick (May 27, 2004)

right.  but that's *not my problem*.  

my machine, after repairing the permissions, deleting the locations my airport can connect to, my WEP string, what not.

bah.  I'll figure it out.  not like I'll find a pertinent answer here.


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## TommyWillB (May 28, 2004)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25764 said:
			
		

> Addresses an issue in which scheduled items, such as automated backups or Software Update checks, may not work if the computer is asleep at the scheduled time. With this update, the schedule will run once the computer wakes from sleep.


Anyone know more aboout this 10.3.4 item?

Is it a cron thing or something else?


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## jackdahi (May 31, 2004)

Feels a bit more responsive.


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## Veljo (May 31, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> Feels a bit more responsive.


Graphics drivers just as crap as before on a 800MHz G4 iMac. I have also found no differences in anything, application starting, startup times, nothing. My 'About This Mac' dialog says 10.3.4 but I must be mistaken. If 10.3.4 came with anything new I'm sure not noticing a thing.


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## fryke (May 31, 2004)

And that's a good thing, too, Veljo. Such updates should, if everything's normal, change many, many things in the background. There's a list of changes, but if you're not using an iPod with USB-2 or any other mentioned feature change, you probably won't notice a thing. Which you did. So the update worked. I know this sounds like sarcasm, but aren't you glad this one didn't break anything? ;-)


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## gerbick (May 31, 2004)

it broke my airport.  I had to revert back to an ethernet connection - mind you, I had to move my desk, other computers, what not too! - just to accomodate this busted update.

I'm super angry still.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 31, 2004)

Broke your airport?  How?  What computer are you using?

Other people are reporting some airport problems here:
http://macfixit.com/


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## soulseek (May 31, 2004)

gerbick 
theres nothon we can do bout it... go to an apple discussion forum and ask for help, call apple...

be angry, i frankly dont care,
im more interested in the problems, or the news.... not ppl whining!


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## ksv (May 31, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> ElDiabloConCaca: I know I'm nitpicking. But you don't get 300kbps on a 3Mbps line. What you mean, probably, is 300 KB/s on a 3 Mbps line. The capital "B" stands for Bytes, the lowecase "b" for bits.



Nah, it's 300 kB/s you nitpicker. "Kilo" is abbreviated to a lowercase K, i.e. k.
300 KB/s=300 KelvinBytes/second  ::evil::


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## soulseek (May 31, 2004)

i thinks its kb/s 

but i dont think we really care if its a capital or not, since were certainly not talkin bout temperature in here.
and second of all bytes is not part of the SI system, except if it can be derived as a secondary unit, dont really know...


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## ksv (May 31, 2004)

1 byte=8 bits 



			
				soulseek said:
			
		

> i thinks its kb/s



kb/s or kbps is kilobits per second, while kB/s or kBps is kilobytes per second.



			
				soulseek said:
			
		

> but i dont think we really care if its a capital or not, since were certainly not talkin bout temperature in here.



K stands for Kelvin, k stands for kilo.



			
				soulseek said:
			
		

> and second of all bytes is not part of the SI system, except if it can be derived as a secondary unit, dont really know...



Well, we use the SI prefixes for binary as well, even though it's not correct. A "kilobyte" is not actually 10^3=1000, but 2^10=1024 bytes. So, the correct term to use is "kibibyte", "KiB", but I've never actually seen that used.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 31, 2004)

Regardless, this isn't the thread to discuss the proper abbreviations for data transfar -- you all know what I mean -- I've got a 3.0MB/mb/mB/Mb connection that gets speeds in excess of 300KB/kb/kB/Kb per second.  That's fast, especially for the price I'm paying.

10.3.4 hasn't caused any problems for me.  It hasn't fixed any of my problems, either, since my system is problem-free now.  None of the fixes listed on Apple's site pertain to me or my system, and it doesn't feel any faster nor slower.  All it did for me is change the version number and use a few megabytes/MEGABYTES/MegaBytes/MeGaByTeS of space (or is it mega*bits*?  Or *mebi*bits?  mebibyes? ).


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## soulseek (May 31, 2004)

ksv im well aware of kilos and Kelvin abbreviations...

and btw  kbps its kilobits per second.... kb/s is kilobytes per second... there is no kBps


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## ksv (May 31, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> and btw  kbps its kilobits per second.... kb/s is kilobytes per second... there is no kBps



I don't see why you couldn't use kBps when kbps is correct, so that seems to me like some lame statement you made up to protect yourself from complete humiliation


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## soulseek (May 31, 2004)

i didnt make up anythin, i really dont care bout u or anythin u say.. so wouuldnt really be humiliated...

in theory, there  could be kbps and kBps..... but theyre not used,..

or maybe im just plain wrong.... im used to dealin with Mbits here  in sweden... 
i know .. havin such a fast internet connection for almost no money can get annoyin ....


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## fryke (Jun 1, 2004)

hey, hey, hey...  Calm down, ye'all. I know it's my fault. My nitpicking was unnecessary.

ksv: The reason I've used "KB" is because the Mac is using this ever since I'm using a Mac. (Or was it even only "K" in the really old past?) But I know it's "wrong" scientifically.


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## soulseek (Jun 1, 2004)

what is wrong and right ?? really depends from what point of view u see it..
scientifically, and according to the SI system.. using yards and pounds and feet as length and weight measurements is wrong... metres and grams are the correct ones... try tellin that to the americans .... or british.. etc..


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## bbloke (Jun 1, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> what is wrong and right ?? really depends from what point of view u see it..
> scientifically, and according to the SI system.. using yards and pounds and feet as length and weight measurements is wrong... metres and grams are the correct ones... try tellin that to the americans .... or british.. etc..



*wince*

Sorry, I have to reply to this one, as I'm working within science.  "Scientifically" (i.e. according to the S.I. system), definitions tend to be strict, although things become more loosely used in practice (and then cracked down upon by the sticklers).  To the best of my knowledge, strictly speaking "kilo" should never be abbreviated to "K" but only to "k."  "K" is indeed reserved for "Kelvin."  Also, the use of units like "feet" is not *wrong*, just not S.I. units.  On the other hand, using "K" instead of "k" *is* considered wrong because the incorrect label can lead to confusion, rather than simply citing a different form of unit.

With regards to kilobits and kilobytes...

http://www.d.kth.se/~d98-fah/hacklin/thesis/latex2html/output/node293.html

http://www.speedguide.net/read_articles.php?id=115

Bits tend to be referred to as "b" and bytes tend to be referred to using "B."    Erm, slightly illogically with regards to the "kilo" part, "kilobits" becomes "kb" and "kilobytes" becomes "KB."  I guess "kilobits per second" should really be "kb/s" or "kb s^-1" though we often see "kbs" or "kbps."  Likewise for "kilobytes per second."  I think we do need to be clear about the difference between referring to kilobits and kilobytes, as people can otherwise become confused.

Concerning the British use of units, I think you'll find S.I. units to be fairly widespread in the U.K.  The use of "miles" is the only example I can think of offhand where it has really stuck.


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## ksv (Jun 1, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> or maybe im just plain wrong.... im used to dealin with Mbits here in sweden...
> i know .. havin such a fast internet connection for almost no money can get annoyin ....



Sverige? Pratar ni svenska? Jättekul 
So I guess you're enjoying your state-subsidized broadband connection? Communist!


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## soulseek (Jun 1, 2004)

lol ksv  

anyways what bbloke posted about abbreviations was really interesting.. and thanx for that...
although weve got ourselves a bit slightly off topic, im allways wellcome to newer things...
it appears fryke was correct after all..

KB is the abbreviation for kilobytes.
kb is the abbreviation for kilobit.
therefore KB/s is kilobytes per second
      and kb/s is kilobits per second.

altough these may be confusing for us familiar to the SI system, they must be accepted are standard abbreviations  quite interesting


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## gerbick (Jun 1, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> gerbick
> theres nothon we can do bout it... go to an apple discussion forum and ask for help, call apple...
> 
> be angry, i frankly dont care,
> im more interested in the problems, or the news.... not ppl whining!


bah.  I didn't say you could do anything.  and if it's breaking stuff, it's considered news, no matter how much you say it's not... but ditto to you mate.  I don't really care what you think either.


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## karavite (Jun 3, 2004)

Gee what a kitty scratching little thread here. I can completely relate to gerbick's frustration with update related problems and such a nasty little reply from soulseek leads me to assume he is still seeking for that soul.


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