# Buy.com Music Store (the mighty merging of 3 threads)



## jeb1138 (Jul 22, 2003)

Apple's latest contender:
http://www.BuyMusic.com 

OK, well, good luck & etc. to Buy.com I guess.  First impression for me is that it's not nearly as nice as iTunes Music Store, even as much as they've tried to copy the iTMS format.

One interesting thing -- their "commercials" are probably the most blatant Apple rip-off that I've seen for a while.  I wonder if that's intentional as some sort of parody of Apple or something....?

http://www.buymusic.com/commercials.aspx?what=rappersdelight 
(Windows Media Player required, might have to use Explorer to get it to play)


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## AJaX (Jul 22, 2003)

Wow.::ha::


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## iMacLover (Jul 22, 2003)

The interface is too clunky...you have to have a shopping cart and windows media player 9, it's nowhere near as easy to browse either.

Just my Opinion


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## Sogni (Jul 22, 2003)

WMAs??? HELLNO!!!  

It's either MP3s or MP4s! 

Just say NO to WMAs!!!


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## Vyper (Jul 22, 2003)

You people... they're going to make so much more money than Apple because while Apple's busy porting iTunes these people are taking of and by then a whole lot of these companies will have already gotten customers.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jul 22, 2003)

Taking off?  I don't think so... the licencing schemes for each individual song is different -- remember no RadioHead on iTunes?  Well, RadioHead is there, but SEVERELY crippled in terms of what you can do with the song once you download it.  

...and songs ain't 79 cents.  More like 99 cents, with albums up around $12.99.  What a joke. 

Rest assured, they WILL attract customers, but I think Apple will do them away when iTunes/Music Store comes to Windows.

God Bless America, though... where we have the right to copy whomever we please, and they have the right to stomp us into the ground for doing so.  I love it.


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## wiz7dome (Jul 22, 2003)

Buy.com is a joke!  In reading some of the articles online its obvious that they were just in a rush to introduce something before iTMS for windows comes out.   First of all what most of the PEECEE people dont understand is that iTMS is not a website.  You have to access it from the iTunes app.  That helps in terms of "ease of use".  OMG!!  I even read a quote from the CEO (or whatever)that said 'steve is a visionary but he's working on the wrong platform'.....WTF!!!.....lololol Steve Jobs did his homework on this one, and now all of the leaches want to ride off his vision and hard work.   Oh well...part of life i guess, but when iTMS comes out for windows........ITS LIGHTS OUT!!!!

"The clone war has begun"-yoda


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## jeb1138 (Jul 22, 2003)

Here's one reason why I don't think it will work:






Those are the ownership privileges for the first 8 songs listed on their website (Top 100 Downloads).  Managing my music library with an MP3 player and the occasional CD would be....confusing.

If were a PC user sitting there and looking at Kazaa and then BuyMusic.com, I think Kazaa would be looking a whole lot better than the Buy.com mess.  Online music downloads create a complicated balance of positives and negatives, and I think Apple tipped the scales enough for enough people to be successful, while Buy.com is still lacking.

Hopefully Apple will be able to get the same rights for Windows as it got for OS X.


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## poondoggle (Jul 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeb1138 _
> *Here's one reason why I don't think it will work:
> 
> 
> ...



I am not familiar enough with the DRM that Apple has imbedded into ITMS, but one thing that the music industry really seems to like about Windows Media Player 9 is the Digital Rights Management.  It may be a daunting task for Jobs to convince them to allow Windows users the same access, but I suppose that Apple has gotten past some of the hurdles if they are porting it.  They wouldn't waste valuable dev cycles if it weren't the case.


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## RyanLang (Jul 22, 2003)

I just saw two of the commercials for the first time (on TV beacause I obviously couldn't watch the windows media 9 ones on the buymusic website) and I am OUTRAGED.  The one where the people are holding the music device and singing the songs, the close up of the music device and trying to have the same font and look as apple in a blatant attempt to make fun of the iTunes music store (which is strange since they're copying/making their own) really pissed me off. But that was just the beginning. A little later I saw the Tommy Lee commercial where the SAME guitar that apple is using as the music store's image in promos is innocently sitting unattended ,as if it were sitting on an apple set and Tommy sneeks on and smashes the crap out of the guitar and it says something like buy music on your (and huge letters) PC.  So I am stumped now. First of all people hated apple because they were ignorant to apple's innovation and they thought they made crappy products. Now the competition makes fun of apple for making kick ass products and yes, they must be kick ass if you're company blantantly rips the product off. To me this whole thing takes the apple ripping off stuff to a new level...ripping apple off and then insulting them for doing it better than you are now trying to. ARRR, when will the world's morons cease to exist?::evil::


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

No, this is good. buy's site has many of the same problems that non iTMS sites have had concerning buying music. Sure, there may be some stuff sold before iTunes for Windows becomes available. But once Windows users get an earful and and eyeful of how simple and effective iTMS is, they'll flock to in record numbers.
  Let buy.com have a few sales before it goes the way of the dodo as well. The bad taste in people's mouths from using it will just make Apple's foray in windoze land that much sweeter.


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## Ricky (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randman _
> *The bad taste in people's mouths from using it will just make Apple's foray in windoze land that much sweeter. *


Or it will drive people away from buying music anywhere online.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

> Or it will drive people away from buying music anywhere online


 Not if there's an easy and viable alternative (ie, iTMS)


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## Arden (Jul 23, 2003)

I was wondering the same thing about that guitar.  Apparently they're trying to "bash" Apple...

On a side note, I met Tommy Lee at a concert last year.  He signed my drumsticks.  I brought them just for that purpose.  I had him sign one to me and one to my sister, and I gave it to her.  And she liked it.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2003-07-21-download_x.htm



> BuyMusic's songs are fully portable, but there's a catch: None can be moved to Apple's iPod, which has 50% of the digital music player market, though they do work with players from Creative Labs, Rio, Lyra and others.


 How many days till it goes under?


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## kanecorp (Jul 23, 2003)

That is soooo dumb.  They're really stupid.  I heard that guy on the news the other day, he was saying that Steve Jobs has the visions, but doesn't have the market.  He then said that he took his idea, and is making it available to the 150 million PC users in the United States.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

I can see why there's no Mac support, why would there be, but to keep iPods out of the loop is a huge mistake. I don't think they have a clue of how successful the iPod is, even to PC users who, for now, must endure that dreadful musicmatch interface. Interesting to see how Apple responds.



> Says Buy.com founder Scott Blum: "In the computer industry, a month is a huge amount of time, and we're going to take advantage of it." He says he's prepared to sell 1 million songs a day. "I expect to do 200 million to 300 million downloads in the first year."


 I say ::ha:: 

Not that I've ever used buy.com (nor know anyone who has), there should still be an Apple users boycott of the entire service.

PS, feel better now, just bought and downloaded the two new exclusive Neil Young tracks and an album from Wynton Marsalis (talk about your brand loyalty). Take that Mr Blum.


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## monktus (Jul 23, 2003)

*Music File Licenses
                                                                                         When you purchase and download music from BuyMusic.com, your music files are accompanied by a license with certain restrictions. The music files are encrypted with SDMI license technology to be sure that they are used according to your license restrictions. (See Minimum System Requirements.)                                                                                         

                                                                                        IMPORTANT: Make sure you mean to buy your music from your primary computer (for example: your home computer) so that it contains your primary license. The licenses are non-transferable.                                                                                           Example: You cannot buy your music on your home machine and then transfer your primary license to your work machine. The computer you buy from becomes the primary computer with the primary license for that song. You can only copy music from your primary machine via your primary license. See below for details.                                                                                         

                                                                                        Downloading, Transferring, and Burning                                                                                         
                                                                                         Each record label has control over these license restrictions including the number of times you may:                                                                                         

transfer your songs to another computer(s)                                                                                         
transfer your songs to an approved portable digital media player.                                                                                         
burn your songs to CD                                                                                          
                                                                                         BuyMusic.com complies with each record label and adjusts the SDMI license on each of your music downloads accordingly.                                                                                          

                                                                                        Two Types of Licenses: Primary and Secondary                                                                                         
                                                                                         There are two types of licenses: Primary and Secondary. The primary license is downloaded to the machine you used to buy your music (for example your home computer). Your primary license enables you to copy your music from your primary computer to your digital media players and to burn it to your CDs as many times as the record label allows.                                                                                         

                                                                                        If you download a secondary license, you do so onto a secondary computer (for example your work computer). Your secondary license enables you ONLY to listen to your music on your secondary computer. A secondary license does NOT allow you to copy your music from your secondary computer to your digital media players or to burn it to your CDs.                                                                                         

                                                                                        Make sure you mean to buy your music from your primary computer so that it contains your primary license. The licenses are non-transferable. You cannot buy your music on your work machine and then transfer your primary license to your home machine. The computer you buy from becomes the primary computer with the primary license for that song.                                                                                         

                                                                                        Before You Buy: Icons Show Number of Copies Allowed                                                                                         
                                                                                         When you download songs, your licenses are downloaded too. When you lookup a song, notice that each song displays icons showing the number of times it may be copied via the primary license.                                                                                          

                                                                                        _ The Compact Disk icon shows the number of times the song can be downloaded to compact disks.                                                                                          
                                                                                         _ The Headphone icon shows the number of times you can transfer the song to digital media players.                                                                                          
                                                                                         _ The Computer icon shows the number of computers you can download your music to in total.

                                                                                         The icons apply only to your primary license on your primary computer. The icons do not apply to the secondary license on your secondary computer. You cannot use the secondary license to copy music at all.

....

                                                                                                                My CPU usage is really high when I play music. Can I free that up?                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                         When your computer is decrypting the WMA file, your CPU usage will normally be very high. However, you can lower your CPU usage during playback if you turn off your visualizations and if you set your player to compact mode. See Windows Media Player Help page for details.                                                                                                         *

Uhuh. Well you're tied to using Media Player, Explorer and Windows, and the DRM is a lot tighter so there's much less you can do with your files. So in a nutshell, you guys are right - buymusic sucks. However theres the "it works on windows and its cheaper than the mac one" issue. Apple better get iTunes ported quick and it has to be better than Quicktime for Windows is. All my PC friends hate QT and to be honest, I can't blame them, the Windows version is nowhere nears as good as the OSX one. All the signs are looking good for iTMS, once the Windows and European versions launch it should be a bit of a coup for Apple. On the other hand, remember Beta video. Fingers crossed.


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 23, 2003)

Apple should have waited and released iTunes Music Store for Mac and PC simultaneously.  Steve spoke too soon about his intentions.  Now Apple will again have to fight for market share with iTunes Music Store for PC, assuming M$ doesn't "break" the software from burning CDs and transferring to iPods.  To be Bold and Brazen is one thing, to *GIVE AWAY* your ideas to your competitors is simply unimaginable and unwise.  Has the M$ flogging that Apples receives taught Steve anything?  Sometimes I wonder....


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## serpicolugnut (Jul 23, 2003)

> Apple should have waited and released iTunes Music Store for Mac and PC simultaneously. Steve spoke too soon about his intentions. Now Apple will again have to fight for market share with iTunes Music Store for PC, assuming M$ doesn't "break" the software from burning CDs and transferring to iPods. To be Bold and Brazen is one thing, to GIVE AWAY your ideas to your competitors is simply unimaginable and unwise. Has the M$ flogging that Apples receives taught Steve anything? Sometimes I wonder....


Agreed. While I appreciate having something this cool months before Windows users, it does "tip Apples hand" to the other players in the business, and give them a good 6 month head start on Apple's Windows offering, which will be the real cash cow if done properly... And by properly, I mean done exactly like the Mac version, software, licensing, et al....


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

I think the PC version is right on schedule, actually. I can't imagine the howl many of the Apple faithful would have made if such a revolutionary move would have gone to PC users at the same time as for the Mac.
  Plus, it wouldn't be much incentive to sell Macs to potential switchers, especially when Apple knew the G5 was going to get lots of attention.
  Plus, it gave Apple enough time to fix what (other than the first few hours) seems to be a relatively smooth operation.
   I'm sure Apple knew these kind of things were going to happen, now it's just a question of if Apple waits for Win/iTunes /iTMS to be a smash and let the others have their fun while it lasts, or if Apple does something aggressive as a response.


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## hazmat (Jul 23, 2003)

This all reminds me of this: http://www.pbrla.com/hum_floridaballot.gif


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## serpicolugnut (Jul 23, 2003)

> Plus, it wouldn't be much incentive to sell Macs to potential switchers, especially when Apple knew the G5 was going to get lots of attention.



Show me one person who switched to a Mac just so he could use the iTunes Music Store 6 months before the PC version debuted...

I don't buy it. iTunes itself has generated some PC envy, and as part of the whole iApp suite probably sold a few Macs to former PC users, but I doubt anybody switched to a Mac just so they could download a few tracks, especially since Apple stated at the launch that the Windows version was coming later in the year.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

> Show me one person who switched to a Mac just so he could use the iTunes Music Store 6 months before the PC version debuted.


 I can't do that, but I can show you three people that I know switched because of the iPod.
   Maybe you don't switch because of the Store, but it could factor in one's thinking. Add iLife, iPod, iTunes/iTMS, iChat and G5s (or when the next PB revision comes along) and you have more reasons to switch. And if you don't switch, you still have more incentive to use Apple products as they become available to you.


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## MisterMe (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chemistry_geek _
> *Apple should have waited and released iTunes Music Store for Mac and PC simultaneously.  Steve spoke too soon about his intentions.  Now Apple will again have to fight for market share with iTunes Music Store for PC, assuming M$ doesn't "break" the software from burning CDs and transferring to iPods.  To be Bold and Brazen is one thing, to GIVE AWAY your ideas to your competitors is simply unimaginable and unwise.  Has the M$ flogging that Apples receives taught Steve anything?  Sometimes I wonder.... *


How soon you forget. The fact that the initial iTMS was Mac-only was a selling point for the record companies. It gave them the opportunity to see who this system would work in a relative piracy-free environment. Now that the iTMS has succeding beyond all expectations on the Mac, everyone except potential competitors is anxious for the roll-out of the Windows version.


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (Jul 23, 2003)

Rolling out a mac or a PC only platform is a small consideration.

When a store goes international then we'll be talking - if Mac go international first (including the Windows platform - if possible) they'll be doing very nicely. But if they sit on their hands and wait for someone else to do it then i'd be more worried.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

I found a good source for my iTunes album art.

But the record industry will be headed this way, basically another standards change since the last major jump in the eighties to CD. CDs will likely still be around, but more and more home media players will be the thing and devices like iPods will phase out to more practical multipurpose devices. i say that because why carry that when you could use a cell phone to play your audio on, considering we always have our cell phones on us anyway. it's more practical. I guess ipods type devices will still be around, just not as big, much like a cassette /CD walkman these days. And considering some of these record companies are owned by manufactures of such products, it's basically a hardware standards change, and cell phone companies would love to do it as well to increase their bottom line. Sprint was the first to test this blend some time ago, but technology is better, so it is coming.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

Can anyone get the search to work? Seems unresponsive in Safari.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 23, 2003)

It's kinda funny...

People complain about Apple not building a product that's "compatible" with the other 97% of the market....yet this guy produces a product that isn't compatible with over 50% of it (iPod users).

Aint that a b.....


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## Go3iverson (Jul 23, 2003)

...and the thing that makes it funnier is, buy.com sells iPods...


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Urbansory _
> *I found a good source for my iTunes album art.
> 
> But the record industry will be headed this way, basically another standards change since the last major jump in the eighties to CD. CDs will likely still be around, but more and more home media players will be the thing and devices like iPods will phase out to more practical multipurpose devices. i say that because why carry that when you could use a cell phone to play your audio on, considering we always have our cell phones on us anyway. it's more practical. I guess ipods type devices will still be around, just not as big, much like a cassette /CD walkman these days. And considering some of these record companies are owned by manufactures of such products, it's basically a hardware standards change, and cell phone companies would love to do it as well to increase their bottom line. Sprint was the first to test this blend some time ago, but technology is better, so it is coming. *



While in high school many years ago I wanted a CD player very badly and eventually saved enough money to purchase the very first Sony DiscMan.  But before this happened I listened to all of my music on cassette tapes on a Panasonic portable stereo (which I still have and works), you know those BIG Boom Boxes from the early 1980s.  One night I dreamed that a major breakthrough in audio had been developed that would soon pass CD quality recordings.  You could purchase music in a clear liquid, that when exposed to a magnetic field, broke down into smaller molecules.  In the process of the liquid breaking down into smaller molecules, the magnetic field was affected by this breakdown which translated into an analog audio signal.  All you had to do was place a small dab of the liquid on the cassette player head, close the door, and press the Play button.

Strange, I know, but that's what dreams are meant for, people to explore new creative ideas.


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## jeb1138 (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyanLang _
> *I obviously couldn't watch the windows media 9 ones on the buymusic website*



You don't need Windows Media 9 to play the commercials from the website.  Windows Media Player for OS X works fine.  I couldn't get Safari to find the right plug-in, but Explorer did fine.

Just FYI for all those unfortunate souls who thought they might never get a peek at those 'wonderful' commercials.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

Well when these phones come out and have the storage space that matches or surpasses what is out now, I know what will be on my must have list.

Cassette tapes, the plastic hell of the past. I hated FF and RWD, such a pain. I have a 8 track player here, lol, so I keep all my old toys too, they are far better in my opinion, well the receiver in the 8-track player, still makes the apartment shake and have the police knocking on my door. 

If Apple made this possible with the iPhone, us Mac users would be grinning for days. What if it had additional built in bluetooth options... remote for anything, garage door opener,.... and other add ons that can be downloaded from the web. The future looks promising of one things, MANY MANY TOYS.


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## RyanLang (Jul 23, 2003)

Yeah, that's what I was using it with when I saw that Safari wasn't working...Explorer didn't work for me either ::stumped but I don't really care after seeing them on tv:::


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## RPS (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RyanLang _
> *I just saw two of the commercials for the first time (on TV beacause I obviously couldn't watch the windows media 9 ones on the buymusic website) and I am OUTRAGED.  The one where the people are holding the music device and singing the songs, the close up of the music device and trying to have the same font and look as apple in a blatant attempt to make fun of the iTunes music store (which is strange since they're copying/making their own) really pissed me off. But that was just the beginning. A little later I saw the Tommy Lee commercial where the SAME guitar that apple is using as the music store's image in promos is innocently sitting unattended ,as if it were sitting on an apple set and Tommy sneeks on and smashes the crap out of the guitar and it says something like buy music on your (and huge letters) PC.  So I am stumped now. First of all people hated apple because they were ignorant to apple's innovation and they thought they made crappy products. Now the competition makes fun of apple for making kick ass products and yes, they must be kick ass if you're company blantantly rips the product off. To me this whole thing takes the apple ripping off stuff to a new level...ripping apple off and then insulting them for doing it better than you are now trying to. ARRR, when will the world's morons cease to exist?::evil:: *



Exactly. How could this be legal?! I've had a tv commercial in my country (Holland) that has people talking about switching from one phone company to another, with a white background, the exact same song, you could see they ripped Apple off. But they can do that here, cause nobody here uses/knows about apple. I hate this.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

Ok, that video goes too far. That shows a lack of originality, they are basically hoping people won't be able to differentiate from the Apple ads and go to their crappy site. It did give me a good laugh, not from the bad acting but the line... "music for the rest of us" reminded me so much of the line from Seinfeld... "Festvus, the holiday for the rest of us" or something like that.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

I used Mplayer (wayyy better than media player for X) to view the movie...

http://ak.buy.com/buy_assets/v6/buymusic/commercials/rappersdelight300k.wmv


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## Arden (Jul 23, 2003)

Funny, I didn't see anything about licensing on Apple's Store site.  Basically, the only restriction they have is that you don't share songs.

And putting unattractive people who can't sing on screen singing not-that-great songs isn't a way to sell a product, even if they are "the rest of us."  How many Jewish Orthodox men (or women, even) have you seen walking around with an MP3 player?  (I'm not bashing them, I'm just saying it's like the Amish using a TV.)

Also, this caught my attention:


> _CDR Software:
> 
> Pinnacle InstaCopy
> EZ CD Creator 6
> *Toast Titanium by Roxio*


Ahem, I thought Toast was Mac-only.  Turns out:


> Roxio TOAST 5.0 TITANIUM CD RECORDING SOFTWARE FOR MAC
> ...
> Features
> ...
> OS Required - Apple MacOS, Apple MacOS X


Aha!  A Windows-only service site promoting a Mac-only product!  These people are so stupid.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

> If Apple made this possible with the iPhone, us Mac users would be grinning for days. What if it had additional built in bluetooth options... remote for anything, garage door opener,.... and other add ons that can be downloaded from the web.


 Sadly, in today's society, if you had a phone that loud, some idiot would sue. And there already are phones that have bluetooth, that can be used as a remote (well not the garage due to power restraints, but you can run a TV or stereo from your phone) and there are plenty of apps out there to download and use.
   Apple doesn't need to invent a phone, it just needs to make it easier to sync with the ones out on the market already.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

how do u figure people will sue, thats like a iPod basically but in a phone enclosure. We carry cell phones anyway, why add other items when we can carry only a phone? The camera is being integrated, not the best at this point, but it is getting better, and audio will be next. Standards change, so do the products we use, they are always evolving. I know of the phones with bluetooth, just showing the potential of a single phone, I wouldn't use it for my TV, i rather have voice operation or a standard TV remote for that.


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## Randman (Jul 23, 2003)

I said people would sue if a phone came out as loud as your old system that would get people phoning the police.    And you can play mp3s and video off the SmartPhones, but you're still limited to sound quality from the speaker.


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## Urbansory (Jul 23, 2003)

bluetooth head phones  If you give a reason why it's not possible, I will keep giving reasons why it is... basically i won't shut up about the phone till i have it. *Joking  

I hope phones don't get that loud, bad enough people are irresponsible with them now, only have audio out to headphones or via a cable hook-up.


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## monktus (Jul 24, 2003)

My new 3G phone does mp3 (and aac and wma I think) playback although the memory is only 32mb. But there are other things that suck about it nd the network so I think it might be ditched for a new Ericsson 2G phone


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## Randman (Jul 24, 2003)

What phone do you have? I have a Nokia 3650 with 128 mb mc card. That may not sound like much room, but it's plenty. I recently converted a 44 mb video to .3gp using QT Pro and the file that was sent to my phone via bluetooth was about 4 mb.
   There's talk that future revisions (and newer phones such as the spiffy 6600 coming at year's end will accept 256 mmc cards, which is like having 80+ gb hard drives. Sure you can fill it up, but it's going to take some effort.
  But at least I know I won't buy from bye.com


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## monktus (Jul 24, 2003)

I've got an NEC e606 but the Bluetooth support is unusable and 3 haven't got their internet access up yet. The GUI in the NEC is a bit lame too. All the phone features and video stuff works okay but the bluetooth stuff's a bit annoying, the battery life sucks too. Unfortunately there isn't much choice on 3 at the moment in terms of phones. I might go back to Orange and get a Sony Ericsson T610. The 3650s look quite cool but for some reason they're not available on Orange. What's the weird keypad like? Symbian seems pretty good too.


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## Randman (Jul 24, 2003)

Have heard that the T610 has the same reception problems as the 68s (which I had at one time).
  It takes a little getting used to with the circular keypad when smsing, but it's not bad at all. The Symbian features are great. To be honest, I'll look at the 6600 when it comes out as it looks to be a killer phone and keep the 3650 as a backup or see if my g/f wants it.
  It is bigger than many phones, but with a case, it's not bad at all. Syncing with the Mac is effortless via BT (using 10.2.6). In fact, I still use my pda, but not as much. I don't think SmartPhones are ready to do away with PDAs... yet.


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## wiz (Jul 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randman _
> *I can see why there's no Mac support, why would there be, but to keep iPods out of the loop is a huge mistake. I don't think they have a clue of how successful the iPod is, even to PC users who, for now, must endure that dreadful musicmatch interface. Interesting to see how Apple responds.
> 
> I say ::ha::
> ...



boycott??!!?? just hack it.. get it to work with ipods.. that'll screw em up!!


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## j79 (Jul 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Go3iverson _
> *...and the thing that makes it funnier is, buy.com sells iPods... *



You think that's funny? On BuyMusic.com (the actual page for buying music) - they have a link to purchase Toast Titanium by Roxio (under CDR software). Yes, the MAC-ONLY app, and they're advertising it there.

Can they be any more stupid?


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## Go3iverson (Jul 24, 2003)

I find that funny too, don't worry.

The entire thing is a rip of the iTunes store and I hope it fails.  

Apple, we need to include the PC world into our musical paradise!


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## Go3iverson (Jul 24, 2003)

Ok, so yesterday I was able to use buymusic.com.....now they have a browser check that won't allow Safari and says you MUST use Windows and IE.

What garbage.

I hope they fail miserably.

You wanna say the Apple community is worthless to you?  I hope they put you out of business.


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## Urbansory (Jul 24, 2003)

damn a browser check, anyway around that? That was my new source for CD art.


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## Ricky (Jul 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randman _
> *How many days till it goes under? *


Not sure...


> _Originally posted by Go3iverson_
> *they have a browser check that won't allow Safari and says you MUST use Windows and IE.*


...Now I'm fairly sure they'll be going away within the month.


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## MikeXpop (Jul 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Go3iverson _
> *Ok, so yesterday I was able to use buymusic.com.....now they have a browser check that won't allow Safari and says you MUST use Windows and IE.
> *


 There is a way around it. Use a slow connection and hit stop around the 90% mark. It loads the page completely and THEN checks.

I agree, these guys are arrogent. Before I wasn't too thrilled about iTunes for windows, but now I can't wait.


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## ApeintheShell (Jul 24, 2003)

I think when companies combine a phone with music, games and video it confuses the customer and degrades the product.

The Gameboy Advance runs circles around cellphone gameplay.
Nokia and other companies don't have easy of use written all over them. 
Would you have to program the new iPod too??

It will only work if you have seperate devices and make them better than the competition. 
Bluetooth Phone
New iPod
Quicktime Pad

who knows!

back on topic:

i don't think pc users will stop pirating music honestly. My brother is frustrated and wants to leave the country"L"
I guess everyone hates America. 
Regular pc users that "buy" software will likely to use buymusic.com


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## Urbansory (Jul 24, 2003)

I forgot we can disable javascript, so thats a workaround.


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## Arden (Jul 25, 2003)

The Toast thing is so stupid, especially if Roxio's sponsoring BuyMusic.com.  If they are, they should wake up and realize that none of BM's customers will buy their product because they all have PC's.

Chem:  That's why you're the chemistry geek, right?  Because you dream about using a chemical to play your music...  That's a really interesting idea, though.  Heaven knows how it would work.  And to use this revolutionary liquid in a normal cassette player?  ::ha::  That's a really funny dream.


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## karavite (Jul 25, 2003)

The "music for the rest of us" line is a direct mocking/snotty comment to the Mac's orginal ad campaign in 1984 - the computer for the rest of us. But they have a point!

buymusic.com is saying, "Hey windows users, they left you out of this and since you are 97% of the god d@mn market, here you go." Apple made some strategic errors here and I can only hope they are working day and night to have iTMS out for windows users. If they would have had both out from day one I suppose they would have sold fewer iPods, but is it worth it in the long run? As a Mac user, I guess I can say, screw the PC users and let them wait. As an Apple stock holder I would be pissed that Apple missed a great opportunity and will have to catch up in the PC world when they could have had it all from day one. This is not good business - Apple is already viewed as elitist and as hard as it may be, we don't want to alienate Windows users if we want Apple to succeed.

buymusic.com may be kludgey and hard to use or poorly thought out, but when has that EVER stopped PC users before?


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## rhale1 (Jul 25, 2003)

So I go and look at their, um, "ads"; if I can call them that. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, yes. These, however, take it a bit too far. I played them with an iTMS ad in the background so I could see the similarity on a large scale. I doubt they can actually last for any long-term period. Sure, Mac users are 5% or less of the market, but as mentioned, iPods sell very well with PC users. 

Either way, I don't find their selection too great. Apple has essentially most, if not all, of the music I listen too anyway. No matter how decent BuyMusic does, Apple will likely take over the PC field when the iTunes Music Store for Windows is released (from what I heard during the Q3 Conference Call, should be end of the year or so). I don't see how it wouldn't be better: simple, global licenses, easy-to-use, high-quality previews... you get the point. One problem I might see is it's iPod compatibility. Unless Apple gives 1 or 2 other popular PC devices some support, I don't know how that will go with the mainstream PC crowd.


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## gwynarion (Jul 25, 2003)

I used to do a lot of shopping at Buy.com because they have good prices and great support.  But lately (the last couple of months) I haven't been able to log into my account using Safari and I've noticed some other problems as well.  Then there is this whole thing and their apparent disdain for Mac users (as opposed to the past when they were pretty good about supporting us).  Personally I've stopped shopping with them and I'm going to be writing them a letter telling them why.  It may not hurt them right now but it will around Yule when I typically drop between $300 and $600 there on gifts.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 25, 2003)

Now's the time for all of us to write in to Apple and ask for that Windows port, even if we'll never use it.....I just sent them a book myself!


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## RPS (Jul 25, 2003)

> _My email to buy.com support_
> 
> Hi, why the HELL did you guys disable Safari/Mac for buymusic.com? You pretend like you NEED windows for the site, but if you press stop after loading the page itself, it just works. Why don't you want Mac customers, what has Apple done to you? Also, I'd really like a serious reply to this. You know, I'll get it in less than 12 hours, otherwise you're just lying on this page.
> 
> ...


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## Randman (Jul 25, 2003)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/weekly/2011144

From MacMinute


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## Fahrvergnuugen (Jul 25, 2003)

apple is going to respond with a windows version of iTunes.... that should kill buymusic.com

i'm surprised buy.com hasn't broken any apple patents or copyrights.... or maybe they have?


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## fryke (Jul 25, 2003)

Erhm... This discussion is way out of proportion. Everybody knew competition would arise. Even Steve knew it, although he didn't think much of it when he presented iTMS. We also have seen services _not_ available for Macs for years. Nothing new here, too. It's a service. It has pros and cons. If you don't like it, don't use it. Why so agitated? Buy more music from the iTMS, if you want to support it.


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## Satcomer (Jul 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Urbansory _
> *damn a browser check, anyway around that? That was my new source for CD art. *



Use one of  these scripts to find your artwork.


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## Urbansory (Jul 25, 2003)

, I haven't tried it yet, hope it works. I know buymusic had large imagery


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## Dime5150 (Jul 25, 2003)

Well i'd rather have a 99 cent great sounding 128k AAC file from the music store rather then a 128 Windows Media file that is most often worse quality then what is floating on gnutella networks. 

I just love the iPod and music store. The synchronization is so awesome. For example I wanted a new album. Instead of driving all the way out to the mall which is 30 miles away and an hour or so with traffic, i walked to my computer, downloaded an album, plug in iPod, and away to the gym.

No service has yet been able to match it and it will be a long long time before there will be.


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## Dime5150 (Jul 25, 2003)

I can't wait till the next steve jobs keynote where he plays the ads and then hears a round of boos. Then he announces iTMS for windows, annoucnes it available internationally, boasts that all record labels are now on board, boasts the simplicity and ease of use, then shows ads showing buymusic.com execs peeing their pants!


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## Go3iverson (Jul 25, 2003)

I agree.  We all love the iTMS so we should continually support it with new music ideas and actually purchasing them when Apple adds them!  

BTW:  The biggest news of all is.....

My Final Project was graded and I officially have graduated college!  What a day!


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## Urbansory (Jul 26, 2003)

congrats, I will be officially done in 2 weeks, finishing my last 2 liberal arts requirements and it's official and FINALLY OVER!


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## Arden (Jul 26, 2003)

Mazel tov, Ive, what's the next stop on the freeway that is your life?

As for BMDC (BuyMusic-dot-com), it's a Windows-influenced service.  Of course it sucks.  They don't know how to get it right, even with a model like Apple.

*Ignore them.*


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## Romendo (Jul 26, 2003)

Most people seem to be so US-centric. I understand that Apple's revenues from outside the US are only 39% of the total, but that is still quite a bit.

When/if Apple can get international users to use a music buying service first, they are not playing catch-up. Let's see how that buymusic.com thing is working out before jumping to any conclusions.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

Thank you for the hearty Mazel Tov and the congrats...very much appreciated!  

I'm actually already working!  I was a lucky one and got job offers while I was still in school, no thanks to the career center, which 'forgot' my resume.

I'm working as a Macintosh Administrator/Desktop Specialist at a publishing company now.


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## ryanmathus (Jul 26, 2003)

Actually, this was posted on the Mac board over at TechTV...someone made a site to parody the buymusic.com crap.

Here it is: http://www.buymusicsucks.com
It's kind of funny, check it out!


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

That would be awesome if they had not hand written in those things.  Re-do and it'll own!


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## fryke (Jul 26, 2003)

Okay... We'll have to either keep this discussion on the topic of iTMS vs. BuyMusic's store on a technical/commercial level, move it to Opinions or close it, which I don't want, as I think those things should be discussed... But please don't use the Apple News & Rumors forum for flaming BuyMusic/Windows/Internet Explorer or whatever... The link's funny, though. ;-) ...


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## Arden (Jul 26, 2003)

Yeah, this belongs in either Opinions or the Café.  Any way you look at it, it's not Apple news or rumors, so it's already misfiled.


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## Ptpiz (Jul 26, 2003)

These lil mofos at buymusic.com just posted commercials on their website. They are bashing macs and the itunes music store. In on of their commercials they have the same guitar that they do on applemusic.com and they start bashing and say 79 cents per song (music for the rest of us) or sumthing like that. I saw it on TV as well, and their other commercials are spin-offs of the apple itunes music store singing commercials. I hate this website and they should die. Also they claim 79 cents per song, for some. But for a lot of songs u are paying 99 cents not 79. The only 79 cent songs are either crap or just not popular. SO, they advertise for things that are tru, but misleading. And they are bashing macs and apple, which is a VERY VERY *** thing to do. Friggin **********!!!

_(watch what you use as an insult - jason)_


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## senne (Jul 26, 2003)

true. very true.


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## Ripcord (Jul 26, 2003)

Don't we already have 3 other threads on this?


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## Arden (Jul 26, 2003)

I think we need a whole new forum for this, like we have the special Panther section.


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## ryanmathus (Jul 26, 2003)

I debated posting the link or not for a while, then figured if it was to be deleted, so be it.  I was waiting for a Moderator to respond...my fault!


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

ok, here's a saving post!

Has anyone heard any rumors about iTunes for PC?  I know Steve said soon, or before the end of the year, but what is anyone hearing?  It's been awfully quiet on that rumor front, which is odd because that should be a hot one!

iTunes for PC could be huge in giving Apple more credability amongst the masses!


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## rhale1 (Jul 27, 2003)

According to the Q3 Earning Conference Call, end-of-the-yearish. Hopefully it will get some people to convert over, as opposed to suspecting an Apple move to the x86 chip, as all to many people think (and some of my PC friends suggest. It grows tiring to explain to them over and over).


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## Randman (Jul 27, 2003)

http://news.com.com/2100-1027-5055392.html

Now M$ wants in as well. ... REDMOND, Wash.--Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates said his company is exploring ways to develop a music download service similar to Apple Computer's iTunes that would tie into the software giant's multimedia applications.


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## j79 (Jul 27, 2003)

Buymusic.com - source for album art work! 

If an album has the option to view a larger image of the CD cover, just save that and use it for your imported CDs. Saves from having to scan it. Fairly large image size, and decent quality.


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## legacyb4 (Jul 27, 2003)

They DO have some nice-sized album covers online, don't they...  



> _Originally posted by Urbansory _
> *I found a good source for my iTunes album art.*


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## Quicksilver (Jul 27, 2003)

Can Apple keep a grip on this? or will it be just to hard to hold onto? 

Apple has great ideas and creations, but they are always in the wrong place at the wrong time? if iTunes was released on both platforms similtanously what would the present be like now.

Apple, You don't wanna loose this battle!


Another reason why iTMS isnt world wide yet is due to government regulations. Some governments own portions or a majority of telecommunication networks in most countries. this gives them more reason to start up a similar service to their citizens. eg: in Australia the major telecommunications giant "Telstra" is starting it's own music download service for around $2 AU a song depending on the exchange rate its about 99c US. Telstra is mainly owned by the Australian government.


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## Decado (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont want to sound like a moderator (fine people, by the way), but keep down the anti-homosexuall remarks, Ptpiz.


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## Jason (Jul 27, 2003)

from a moderator - i totally agree, please refrain from comments such as those, they are unwarranted and distasteful.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

This is what I've been worried about...Making the Apple community beta testers to the Windows one.  We need iTMS for PC NOW!

If we don't move, Gates has an army of over 50 THOUSAND employees that can crank out something ASAP.  Also, he's got enough money to get the contracts and agreements done fast.

Unless Steve was able to get some sort of non M$ guarantee for a period of time, but our window (no pun intended) is closing fast.  We need to get this done.  If we do, we can really take a bite out of the PC market on our service.  Also, most people will want to stick with one service due to the differences in the DRMs and file types.  

Apple....PLEASE get that PC code ready!  (never thought I'd say that!)


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## Giaguara (Jul 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Funny, I didn't see anything about licensing on Apple's Store site.  Basically, the only restriction they have is that you don't share songs. *



From http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/25/1316225&mode=thread&tid=141&tid=188 :



> "Politech is reporting that your 'ownership' of music purchased from Apple's iTunes isn't what everyone considers ownership. According to the license, 'Apple may use technologies to verify' that you have not 'use[d] or attempt[d] to use the service from outside of the [United States]'. This includes Canada. Apple's 'technologies' delete the bought-and-paid-for files with no refund and no replacement when & if you leave the U.S."  Update: 07/25 16:23 GMT by P: The post to Politech says the songs would "disappear," not be deleted; from the context, it seems they were merely unplayable, not deleted.  Update: 07/25 21:34 GMT by M: Apple has contacted the guy, and is apparently making him happy.  However, the question remains: Apple definitely doesn't want people buying new songs from outside the U.S., but do they intend to generally permit foreign users to reauthorize (in effect, retain access to) the songs they have already purchased?  Apple's policy is very unclear on that point.



I don't think that is something apple wanted but rather what the greedy pigs = music industry requested to the service.

Be in the States, buy the music and when you go to Europe say a bye-bye to what you paid for? Does not sound very nice, nor will i try.

But I agree, even that is FAR FAR less than the buymusic licence.

Oh - and that the site requiring windoze and IE is hilarious. ::ha::


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## Arden (Jul 27, 2003)

I don't see why it's necessary for them to care what browser you use, unless they're so pigheaded they want to enforce that only Windows users use the service, which is _completely_ stupid and should be illegal for discrimination.

BTW, www.buymusicsucks.com is friggin' hilarious.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

I fully support buymusicsucks.com

Second best music site behind iTMS.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

Has anyone else here written in to Apple requesting the PC iTunes?


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## Arden (Jul 27, 2003)

Why bother?  They're already working on it.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, have any of you seen the videos with the blonde?  I swear, this has to be the most innane, stupid thing I've ever seen.

Now I must go pray for soul after watching this.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

Wait, your media player MUST be DRM compliant?  I understand the iPod deal, but do *all* the rest on the market support this?

This blonde just talked about small and light...I wonder if she meant her brain?


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

Wait, and one more thing....

I need an internet connection AND a sound card?!

What's up with that?!


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## jiomitori (Jul 28, 2003)

na


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## ApeintheShell (Jul 28, 2003)

If Apples goes international perhaps we won't have to buy international music thru eBay.


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## Arden (Jul 28, 2003)

Okay, I just went to BMDC and ran into their "You must use the craptacular Win-fucking-blows and Internet Explorer" bullshit, and that pisses me off.  It's one thing to say that I can't buy anything if I use a Mac, but to not even allow me on the site is just plain fucking discrimination and should be illegal.

I hope Apple sues the company into the ground, hopefully out in Death Valley so they'll burn up even when they're buried under 50 tons of red tape and paperwork.

Apple comes out with a fabulous service, and they aim to embrace the other fucking side.  A competitor comes out with a shitty service and does their best to ostracize us.  What a bunch of shit.

(Pardon my, um, French, this just really pisses me off.)


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## Go3iverson (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm with you Arden.  They will say its to prevent us from purchasing music we won't be able to play, though.  I'm not sure how that DRM will work on a Mac.  

The real issue is not allowing any other browser but IE on the PC side, as well.  There's zero excuse for that, as I see it.

Sue 'em anyway!    lol


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## buggerit (Jul 29, 2003)

1.  buymusicsucks.com is quite crude, and unfortunately neither slick nor clever.  buymusic.com does indeed suck, but i could be conveyed a little more convincingly...

2.  the music industry has it's head up it's arse.  i want radiohead - the bends.  I can either pay $8.90 for NINE out of the TWELVE tracks on the album (the other three are unavailable) with absurd license restrictions (3 burns? get stuffed..) OR i jump on kazaa and get better quality tracks in half the time and do what i want with them. its illegal, it's wrong, but 99% of consumers don't give a rats arse and will do it anyway.

iTMS is done as right as possible, buymusic is done hopelessly wrong...


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/07/30/0152255.shtml?tid=141&tid=188

Review-ish topic of buymusic.com.

Make sure to check out the user experince, which, if you don't wanna go to slashdot, you can find here:

http://www.scriptygoddess.com/archives/004057.php


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## jeb1138 (Jul 30, 2003)

Saw this from a link on MacNN:


> The way to go after illegal file sharing services is to compete with them...go after their weaknesses. The reason why people used these services is instant gratification: for most of the people who use file sharing, it is more about flexibility and not about free...we aim to take advantages of weaknesses of illegal sharing services: unreliable encoding; bad connection; no previews; wrong music; no album cover art; and at the end of the day, it is stealing.
> - Peter Lowe, Director of Marketing for Applications and Services, Apple Computer, Inc.
> http://www.paidcontent.org/


I think that's why iTMS works & BuyMusic doesn't.  Because iTMS competes against file sharing and wins (wins for enough people at least) and BuyMusic competes against file sharing and loses (loses for most people, it seems).

Another interesting aspect of this whole thing is that file sharing competition is a lot stronger on Windows than it is on the Mac.

It'll be very interesting to see how iTMS fares when it's ported to Windows.  At least in my experience (and I've tried quite a few different Mac file sharing programs/services), nothing out there is as good as Kazaa in terms of ease of use, selection and speed, and Kazaa doesn't exist for the Mac.  Does iTMS beat Kazaa?


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## Perseus (Jul 30, 2003)

Aren't users of Kazaa becoming threatened by people who are going after file sharers? No one, I think, would get in trouble through iTMS. iTMS is made only for music as far as I am concerned, while Kazaa is just like: hey come and get whatever you want.


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## Arden (Aug 10, 2003)

The RIAA is going after people who share files online, and I doubt they're really going to discriminate between someone sharing hundreds of MB of music and hundreds of MB of porn.  They can't go after iTMS because they authorized the whole service in the first place, and they're reaping the benefits from it.  (Too bad the artists will see barely a penny, most likely, from all of your 99¢ purchases.)


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## Go3iverson (Aug 13, 2003)

Looks like buymusic.com's lawyers are out as well!

try going to buymusicsucks.com and you get redirected to here:

http://www.timb.us/archives/000019.html

they were threatened with legal action.

It's amazing, buymusic rips off Apple and literally bashes them in the commercial, but someone bashing them is threatened with legal action.

Also, I thought it was posted somewhere that they took off the mac restriction?  I still can't get in unless I disable JS.


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## Arden (Aug 13, 2003)

What about the other slamody sites?  (Combination of slam & parody)  Is BMDC going to go after them too?


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## Go3iverson (Aug 14, 2003)

Why not?  They've got tons of time on their hands...they offer no support for their product and the "small" mac population is out selling the entire PC market in online music sales.


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## Arden (Aug 17, 2003)

They really should concentrate on improving their services and not giving people a good reason for slamody sites.

If AAC downloads were Mac users and WMV downloads were Windows users, Mac users would far outnumber Windows users.  Classic.


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