# Safari with Tabs (v62 - v71)



## Chibi15 (Feb 23, 2003)

Here you can see what safari with tabs look like.
It is a screenshot from v62 - which is bleeding edge, but unstable as hell.


----------



## Ricky (Feb 23, 2003)

Yay!    No more whining!


----------



## doofy10 (Feb 23, 2003)

What happened to the favorites bar??
-Doofy


----------



## Chibi15 (Feb 23, 2003)

It is still here, i just have hidden it


----------



## moav (Feb 23, 2003)

I wonder what it looks like without the brush metal look... that really looks good I might have to stick with the metal look if the aqua look tabs don't cut it.


----------



## phatcactus (Feb 23, 2003)

Hmmm.  I thought they were pretty ugly.    The texts' bevels  are much too harsh, and the tabs are, well, recatangles.  If someone saw them alone, they would say, "ah, rectangles!  I wonder what they do!" not "ah, tabs! I know what these do!"  Familiarity is important to usability.  I hope this is fixed before they release it.

The "close boxes," on the other hand, are a fantastic touch.

My ideal of single-window-multi-page web browsing was drawn up by someone once, I think in a  review of Safari.  It basically looked a lot like a cross between Chimera's bookmark drawer and Preview's thumbnail drawer.  It featured little thumbnails of the page instead of tabs.  Quite elegant.

- Brian


----------



## macridah (Feb 23, 2003)

here's and article from thinksecret with another screenshot

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/safaritabbedbrowsing.html


----------



## mightyjlr (Feb 23, 2003)

thats awesome, something I honestly didn't think would happen soon...  of course Apple wasn't the first to do it, but Microsoft hasn't done it yet, and like pop-up ad blocking, not something I would expect them to do in their next release.


----------



## twister (Feb 23, 2003)




----------



## pwharff (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm using the Tabbed browsing browser now.  Does anyone know how to bookmark all the tabs into one bookmark?


----------



## Greystroke (Feb 24, 2003)

but yet they still ship a one button mouse....

 

i just don't get it....


----------



## Dale Sorel (Feb 24, 2003)

Get it here.

  


[Edit by Fryke: Sorry, pal. It's not allowed to link to warez on here...]


----------



## JetwingX (Feb 24, 2003)

i am amazed that Giaguara hasn't pop in hear yet. i mean all i ever heard from 'em was "safari must have tabbed browsing before i'll use it!!!"


----------



## celeborn (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moav _
> *I wonder what it looks like without the brush metal look... *



It looks OK, although the tabs in the background seem to use a hard-coded theme. Check out the attachment. I've got a Smoothstripes theme, but you get the idea...


----------



## toast (Feb 24, 2003)

Is it a theme you use to make windows with square angle, celeborn ?
Safari looks great with all its tabs. But I still thik Chimera is faster. Yeay !


----------



## celeborn (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *Is it a theme you use to make windows with square angle, celeborn?*



The SmoothStripes theme by Max Rudberg: http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/index.htm

Va voir, c'est cool.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Feb 24, 2003)

Yes, the leaked builds of v62 do feature Tabs and AutoForms Complete, enabled via the Debug menu.

The tabs work quite well. They are not as aesthetically pleasing as the tabs in Chimera, but they are more functional, as each tab has a close button to the left of the text. Quite nice.

However, Tabbed Groups, one of the main reasons I use tabs, are not present yet. Time will tell if they will be implemented at all...

I haven't been able to get AutoForms Complete working, however. But the fact that the debug menu shows it means that it's being worked on...


----------



## serpicolugnut (Feb 24, 2003)

Also of note regarding speed:

Chimera still loads pages faster. Safari seems to be faster at rendering Cached pages though.

Also, Safari is much faster at scrolling than Chimera. I don't know if this will improve in Chimera when they move to the newer Mozilla rendering engine trunk...


----------



## fryke (Feb 24, 2003)

I find the tabs in Safari quite appealing, really. At least better than using the tabs that Chimera uses, because they seem like an unintended use of Preferences Tabs to me... Integrates well with Safari...


----------



## moav (Feb 24, 2003)

I too must agree... I really like the tabs in Safari. That would be the last thing I would ask Apple to work on. I think Apple got a bit upset about all the work they put into the brushed metal look and how people where aquifying it (a bit odd since they also created that look, should have two options... maybe later on) Now they seem to frown upon the reaquification of safari. Mydemetalizer won't undo the brushed metal tabs so it looks a bit akward... oh, well.


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jet _
> *i am amazed that Giaguara hasn't pop in hear yet. i mean all i ever heard from 'em was "safari must have tabbed browsing before i'll use it!!!" *



  .. heh. Okay now I whine I want it to be _
 at least at fast as boosted Chimera and I want all the .. err.. personalizations I've done to Chimera as well in it. _ I can't use Safari besides on password protected Woltlab bbs - I can't log in!! - So at the moment my second browser is iCab. Now Chimera crashes so little it doesn't disturb me. So when it'll be more stable, work with Woltlabbs and be at least as fast as _my_ Chimera, I'll consider ..


----------



## RPS (Feb 24, 2003)

When will the update be available for non illegal downloaders?


----------



## Arden (Feb 24, 2003)

IMO, Safari would be simply *awesome* with tabbed pages held in a drawer.  I don't like the look of the tabs in those screenshots; they are too rectangular, single-tone, hard-to-read, and boring, and the close buttons should be aqua widgets.

Seriously, though, wouldn't you like to hold your tabbed pages in a drawer?  Maybe a separate drawer for popups or something?  New windows roll out to the right, popups from the bottom...


----------



## wdw_ (Feb 24, 2003)

I figured out the Auto Forms feature. Actually, BlingBling3k12 did and he showed me. anyway. this pic should explain it:


----------



## toast (Feb 24, 2003)

Still, I want Grouped Tabs ! I won't use Safari if I can't open my Forums tabgroup, ie. my five macosx.com rooms + desktoppublishing.com/boards + Carracho boards + xicons.com in one click !
I also want to be able to do the same with my News tabgroup.

Picture says it all. Done in one click, one. Ha ! Beat this, Safari !

    

If Safari gets tabgroups one day I'll surrender.


----------



## cfleck (Feb 24, 2003)

i second the "tabs in a drawer" idea.  i think it makes for a much cleaner interface too.  the tabs along the top, although common, are ugly in all browsers imho.


----------



## twister (Feb 24, 2003)

tabs in a drawer sounds ugly to me.  I think of a drawer like mail and can't see how it would work for Safari.  I kind of like the tabs as they are now.

HOWEVER:
This is not even a public version yet.  Maybe this is their first attempt and they haven't put a lot of thought into design yet.  Maybe they are starting with functionality.  That's what i do when i build thing.  I make them work, then make them pretty.  We shouldn't complain to much as it's not available yet.


----------



## cfleck (Feb 24, 2003)

no complaints.  i'll take tabs however i can get em.  but there are always personal tastes.  when i think of drawer type tabs i think of how proteus handles multiple chat sessions.  i like it.


----------



## fryke (Feb 24, 2003)

1. Safari rocks, but it has no tabs.
2. Okay, it's getting tabs, but it has no tabgroups.
3. Ooookay, but...

Believe me, Safari is worth watching. The development since the first public beta is enormous. I'd love there to be a way to get those betas officially, but that's not the Apple way. CVS or at least nightly builds (since it's not open source) would be cool, but with new betas every few weeks, we actually SEE the progress better, I believe.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *but with new betas every few weeks, we actually SEE the progress better, I believe. *



Yea, i agree, with Nightlies, in the past, often features that were implemented weren't noticed, but with fewer updates, you really can see Noticable differences between current, and previous builds!  

On a side note, i've never really used Chimera "That" much, and coming from the Dark side, not so long ago, umm... Tabs was still growing on me! ... i never realised it sorted the tabs into groups! Neat Feature! I really like the look of the tabs, and the "X" on the tab; to close a tab, is something i saw as common sense, that was lacked from Chimera ... an extra Right Click was needed!  

...Anyhow, yes, with Autofill as well, this browser sure is coming on, in leaps and bounds! 

NeYo


----------



## chevy (Feb 24, 2003)

Safari tabs as shown above look great, but why aren't the tabs attached to the pages ?

When I look in my old paper cards, tabs are attached to specific pages, not to some upper "something"


----------



## fryke (Feb 24, 2003)

I asked myself that, too. But I actually like how it looks, because like this it belongs to the UI (the 'metal parts', the 'hardware') instead of the 'screen':







Maybe they're still going to change this feature, though. It's not like it's already been evolved much...


----------



## goynang (Feb 24, 2003)

My thoughts too on those tabs.

In a way they are upside down. The tabs should be attached to the area they change. These almost look like they will change the toolbar and address field area rather than the actual HTML rendering area.

That said, I can see why they have done it that way as due the colour scheme of the metal look it wouldn't really work the other way round.

On the whole I think they look quite nice but I'm a little concerned we're going to end up with a new interface with every new app if this trend continues. That would be a bad thing!!!!!

I like the metal look but think Apple is creating a rod for its own back to a certain extent.

Has Steve got bored with Aqua?


----------



## Cat (Feb 24, 2003)

This would justify Safari being brushed metal since with tabs it's a _single window_ app ... 

No specific hardware device relation though ...


----------



## fryke (Feb 24, 2003)

But yes, the Aluminum PowerBooks.  They even LOOK a bit like that.


----------



## wdw_ (Feb 24, 2003)

this version of Safari keeps asking me for my password. Anyone else getting this?


----------



## fryke (Feb 24, 2003)

Nope, not here. What password? The Admin password? If you keep getting this, look at its permissions, replace the binary and/or backup your prefs and delete them...


----------



## chevy (Feb 24, 2003)

It works fine with me... goynang is right about the metal look, but maybe this is one limit of the metal concept, not everything must be metal... the colored button are not metal neither.

Another improvement would be to have the tabs behave like the dock: all small, only the one under the pointer in large... so that we can have tenths of tabs and still be able to read the current one. There was some 5 years ago a kind of experimental Finder at Apple that used this type on concept with kind of barrels to browse the files on a disk.


----------



## chevy (Feb 24, 2003)

Have you seen that you can launch Safari 60 and Safari 62 at the same time... this was not possible with Explorer !


----------



## chevy (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *Have you seen that you can launch Safari 60 and Safari 62 at the same time... this was not possible with Explorer ! *



see attachement


----------



## Arden (Feb 24, 2003)

...and...

Anyway, I still like the idea of attaching a tab drawer to one side of the main window.  The in-browser tabs are ugly and subfunctional, and the drawer could slide out, making the Safari window slightly smaller if necessary, thus leaving the desk space for more browsing.  Plus, Safari only has metal on the top portion of the window whereas other apps have it all around, so I think Safari may be better suited to be Aquafied like Apple's finder windows than metalesque.


----------



## RPS (Feb 24, 2003)

People, how come so many of you have it already? And is the tabbing pre-set, or is it something you can turn on/off trough preferences?


----------



## btoneill (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *People, how come so many of you have it already? And is the tabbing pre-set, or is it something you can turn on/off trough preferences? *



Because a bunch of people posted the dmg on their website in violation of Apple's license  And it's not preset, you have to enable it.

Brian


----------



## RPS (Feb 24, 2003)

Trough preferences? Or is it like a handy button?


----------



## moav (Feb 24, 2003)

Must first enable the debug menu. Then you can access the tabs feature. If you don't want tabs you don't have to have them even when they are enabled. I believe you can get a maximum of 12 tabs as of right now. Though at start they are left justified... probably should be centered. But really like the effect that it is attached to the top instead of the bottom. Works so much better then when Chimera and Moz was playing around with it... couldn't stand that back then.


----------



## mr. k (Feb 24, 2003)

has anyone figured out the forms autofill yet?  Or has it been overlooked by the tabs   great job on tabs apple, I like how you guys reinvented the look, didn't just copy it from chimera


----------



## drustar (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Chibi15 _
> *Here you can see what safari with tabs look like.
> It is a screenshot from v62 - which is bleeding edge, but unstable as hell. *



What's so buggy about the new build?


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 24, 2003)

Generally: don't post links to get that v.62 before it's released officially, please. If you want it, get it from elsewhere or bug privately the people who  could / have it. Thank you.


----------



## Dusky (Feb 24, 2003)

> What's so buggy about the new build?



I've used it for more than 30 minutes and I haven't found any bugs.  Oh, but one thing I don't like:  actually, nevermind.  I was gonna complain about Command-N creating a new window....  when i wanted a new tab instead...  but I just learned how to create a new tab...  Command-T.

However, back to whining:
In chimera, I'm able to choose whether clicking on a link from outside of the browser will open in a new window, or in a new tab.  I want that option.  I'd set it to new tab.


----------



## Ricky (Feb 24, 2003)

If you hold the Apple key while clicking a link it will open in a new tab.    Thought this would be nice to know, for all of you that use key commands while clicking.  Also, you can right-click/control click and choose that option.

-EDIT-  That's odd, it only does it sometimes with the Apple key..  
-EDIT EDIT-  Ooh, but if you hold down the Apple key while selecting a bookmark, or hold it down the entire time you're browsing through a bookmark folder and select a bookmark, it will open the bookmark in a new tab.


----------



## Jason (Feb 24, 2003)

how does the keychain/autocomplete work


----------



## Jason (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wdw_ _
> *I figured out the Auto Forms feature. Actually, BlingBling3k12 did and he showed me. anyway. this pic should explain it: *



Stop rubbing it in and tell us


----------



## Drizzt (Feb 24, 2003)

I ran into an odd bug where all webpages stopped displaying.  Don't know what caused it but I went back to the previous official version cause I got annoyed by how the window resized up when the last tab was closed.  Yes little quirks really bug me


----------



## Jason (Feb 24, 2003)

another odd quirk, like previously reported, only sometimes does command+click open in a new tab...


----------



## twister (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *another odd quirk, like previously reported, only sometimes does command+click open in a new tab...  *



That's why we don't have it yet.


----------



## edX (Feb 24, 2003)

i just hope all you people are reporting these bugs so apple can get them fixed quickly and we can get the stable version released soon.


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 24, 2003)

Haha.  Does the bug button work in that version?

Wait, I want to see tomorrow on apple's site instead of the normal "Welcome Safari user" .. "Welcome you illegal Safari user" ..


----------



## twister (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Wait, I want to see tomorrow on apple's site instead of the normal "Welcome Safari user" .. "Welcome you illegal Safari user" ..  *



That would rock!


----------



## Jason (Feb 24, 2003)

ive used the bug button to report the bugs...

also, shouldnt the distrubuter of said illegal safari also be incarcerated G?


----------



## edX (Feb 24, 2003)

i'm sure if apple can determine who did it, they won't be getting any more betas. 

unless it was SJ doing something crazy for his birthday.


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 24, 2003)

Okay. This .62 seems to become an infection so ..

*QUOTE* what you wanted to link. Do not link unless you are not linking to rumor sites, or that .dmg file, mac forums or to anything where that file could be found. 

*Please.* 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Thread continues  (mainly) linkless.* 

Images ok. Links .. well ..


----------



## Arden (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ricky _
> *If you hold the Apple key while clicking a link it will open in a new tab.    Thought this would be nice to know, for all of you that use key commands while clicking.  Also, you can right-click/control click and choose that option.
> 
> -EDIT-  That's odd, it only does it sometimes with the Apple key..
> -EDIT EDIT-  Ooh, but if you hold down the Apple key while selecting a bookmark, or hold it down the entire time you're browsing through a bookmark folder and select a bookmark, it will open the bookmark in a new tab.   *



That seems pretty standard... Explorer does all that without tabs (or bugs 'cuz it's a final release...).


----------



## jeb1138 (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *That seems pretty standard... Explorer does all that without tabs *



ummmm.... I think the fact that it did those things _with_ tabs was the entire point of his post.


----------



## Arden (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeb1138 _
> *ummmm.... I think the fact that it did those things with tabs was the entire point of his post. *



Yeah, I meant the fact that it uses the command key to open new windows.  I would love Explorer to use tabs, but it doesn't.


----------



## boi (Feb 25, 2003)

i hope apple focuses on getting stuff like 'border-collapse' and other such CSS commands working right before they spend more time on this stuff...

that said, i think the tabs are functional and pretty ^_^. i hope they support drag/drop soon.


----------



## Jason (Feb 25, 2003)

can we get some auto complete help in here?


----------



## brianleahy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hm.  Those up-pointing tabs make me wonder...  Might they look better if located BELOW the browser area?  Perhaps they could make top-vs-bottom selectable, kinda like the Dock location...


----------



## gwynarion (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Greystroke _
> *but yet they still ship a one button mouse....
> 
> 
> ...



Wow.  Are people still obsessing over this?  Apple has been shipping a one button mouse for a lot longer than Microsoft (or their hardware partners) have been shipping two+ buttons.  Cripes.  That's just the way it is.  And if Apple ever ships a two button mouse then everyone will start complaining that it doesn't have three...


----------



## gwynarion (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *The tabs work quite well. They are not as aesthetically pleasing as the tabs in Chimera, but they are more functional, as each tab has a close button to the left of the text. Quite nice.*



You really find the Chimera tabs to be more attractive?  I've never much cared for them because I think they take up too much space and are too "fancy."  I greatly prefer Safari's implementation where the tabs are simpler, take up less space and have smaller text.  I think it is much more graceful, especially because it leaves me more space for the page I want to look at.

<em>I'm the guy that has always set his browsers to use only text in the button bar rather than icons so as to save space in the main window.</em>


----------



## Da_iMac_Daddy (Feb 25, 2003)

I think more people would complain that it DOES have two buttons... anyway just buy a two button mouse ... I don't think you could even buy a non apple single button mouse  ::erk thread going down the drain::


----------



## gwynarion (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *IMO, Safari would be simply awesome with tabbed pages held in a drawer... Seriously, though, wouldn't you like to hold your tabbed pages in a drawer?  Maybe a separate drawer for popups or something?  New windows roll out to the right, popups from the bottom... *



Oh gods no.  Do you really want to turn the browser into some sort of bizarre circus of windows and drawers and inspectors sprawling across the screen?  Maybe you have a the 23" Cinema display and can afford this sort of thing, but I cannot.  I much prefer my browser to take up as little room as possible and to keep everything contained in one window.  What you suggest seems to me to be a horrendous perversion of a very clean and simple browser.



> _Originally posted by arden _
> *[...] and the close buttons should be aqua widgets.*



No, they definitely should not.


----------



## twister (Feb 25, 2003)

Kind offf topic....

Two button mice ROCK!  Apple should change.  I know i can just buy one (which i did) but i think Mac swould be even easier for the first time user (or switcher) if they had right clicks.


----------



## Cat (Feb 25, 2003)

But they have! ... I mean, you have all kinds of clicks: ctrl-clicks, alt-clicks, CMD-clicks, etc. Mostly ctrl-click corresponds to right-clicks. Apple does simply take another approach to the use of a pointing device like a mouse, preferring keyboard-mouse combo's where others use a plethora of mouse buttons. I'm quite curious about the relation of multiple mouse buttons to RSI...

BTW what is essntailly the problem? That Apple doesn't produce a beauty of a two-button mouse like the pro-mouse? Or that you have the enormous hassle of buying a multi-button mouse?


----------



## brianleahy (Feb 25, 2003)

At one point, Apple's promotional materials bragged "Apple's mouse has only one button, so it's very hard to click the wrong one" -- promoting simplicity as a selling point.   I still think it may have some value to newbies, but the truth is that there are a lot of things that are easier to do with a 2nd button (and the alternative is a lot of two-handed ctrl-clicking and so forth.)


----------



## edX (Feb 25, 2003)

yep, this thread has hit rock bottom when it turns to discussing the number of mouse buttons. 

but i don't agree twister - i think beginners find the one button mouse much easier. maybe it would help switchers, but again, somethings are just best left for people to buy. if they included 2 buttons, then people would bicker over the shape, size, etc. (like they already do over the one button  )


----------



## brianleahy (Feb 25, 2003)

Anyway, about them inverted tabs -- anyone think being able to optionally put them below the content area might be worthwhile?


----------



## twister (Feb 25, 2003)

Oh good idea brianleahy!

Ohh and ed. If we hit rock buttom we can only go up from here!


----------



## moav (Feb 25, 2003)

I still thought the little hockey puck mouse was the most ergonomic for myself.  If they could have made that wireless and optical  it would have been perfect. I think that was the only mouse I had ever used that after 2 hours of use my wrists didn't hurt.

But back to this topic, tabs shouldn't be on the bottom since we would have way to much wrist movement which may lead to carpal tunnel. I wish Apple would just send me a waiver as well as the government that says I will not sue them due to my using a keyboard or mouse. I just bought my girlfriend a logitech and in huge bold letters on the front it says "WARNING USE OF KEYBOARDS MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH"  If a company has purposeful intent to harm that is one thing but with technology or new products or even drugs there is a chance that  it may cause adverse side effects. For every action there will be an opposite reaction.... 

cars=convienence=pollution
fastfood=convience=fat men
teleporters=convienence=possible death


----------



## brianleahy (Feb 25, 2003)

Well, by that reasoning, the Dock has GOT to go.....


----------



## Cat (Feb 25, 2003)

Why has the Dock 'got to go'? Ok, you cannot place it at the top of your screen, but you have the option for left and right. If it really bugs you there are haxies to give more functions to the Apple menu.


----------



## brianleahy (Feb 25, 2003)

My only point is that I personally don't consider it reasonable that no interface elements can be placed at the bottom of a screen or window because of fear of carpal tunnel.   

What about the horizontal scroll bar?  Or the resize area?  They've ALWAYS been at the bottom.


----------



## hulkaros (Feb 25, 2003)

Yep... I know a bit dramatic maybe but more or less it seems that Apple REALLY listens to its customers!

Safari with Tabs? I want it NOW! 

Anyways, as for Tabs being on top and hanging on the address bar I think that it is awesome... And an x button to close them with the mouse without going left, right, far away from each tab in general? Cool! Now, what about that Bookmarking Tabs, Apple?  As for brushed VS aqua theme of Safari, I think that it is time for Apple to let its users enjoy the benefits of themes which many users enjoy albeit on a "insecure" basis... Of course I'm talking of themes as a function across the OS X UI and not only in Safari  Now, if only Apple is reading this, too 

As for the mouse:
-I think that Apple has to go wireless be it USB or Bluetooth ASAP and the same with keyboard. Both mouse and keyboard are top quality but they have to go wireless...
-Also, I think that I want the mouse to remain single "button" BUT... on top of it! Underneath I want the mouse to become a whole NEW beast: If you click the left area of the mouse it must register as a left click. If you click the right area of the mouse it must register as a right click. When you click in the middle it must register the same way it is now: Left click. However, on top of the mouse, in the middle, a small part, could be something like iPod's "jog" or if you prefer a touchpad like in xBooks in order for the user to be able to use it as a wheel and/or a third button! Something like the last thing exists on one of Macally (I think I spelled wrong but anyways) mice but not a very good version compared to the one I have in mind   As for the left/right clicking mechanism, I think that it could become a reality easily based on the same mechanism already Apple is using for Apple Pro Mouse...

On the other hand I'm sure that Apple will surprise us anyways but I hope it would be a cool surprise and not give us just another mouse to use as other companies like to do. But then again Apple isn't just another company


----------



## moav (Feb 25, 2003)

Sounds good about the mouse... and then they could go a step further and have it pressure sensitive... say I have 10 pages on top of each other or am looking for a folder burried deep within a set of nested ones, the more pressure I apply downward the further and faster the cursor dives into the nested area. As in a stack of papars instead of moving each one i could stick my finger through the stack and pick out the one I need by pressing harder into the stack. 

Wasn't Apple the one that was trying out the 3D file nesting system. I remember someplace or somewhere you could fly through your folders... I know I wasn't dreaming has to be about 5 years ago... Anyone remeber what that was called and if they ever did anyting with that?


----------



## hulkaros (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *My only point is that I personally don't consider it reasonable that no interface elements can be placed at the bottom of a screen or window because of fear of carpal tunnel.
> 
> What about the horizontal scroll bar?  Or the resize area?  They've ALWAYS been at the bottom. *



The TaskBar! It is at the bottom of the screen too! 

Or Linux "TaskBar"? It is at the bottom too!  

Or OS 9 Control Strip?  

Come on guys, Tabs MUST be on top or even better if Apple would give the people the option to put them Top, Bottom, Left, Right? I don't know! At least for me, the best place is on top of a web page and hanging under the "address" bar


----------



## Decado (Feb 25, 2003)

Yeah, i remember the three-d Finder! Was right before Copland (os8) i think. we should make a thread about it and see if anyone got some old magazines they could scan pictures from. It would be kool to see it. Was thinking about it some days ago when i tried to come up with new kool stuff they could do with OSX.


----------



## mr. k (Feb 25, 2003)

I hope apple implements command-1, command-2 to switch tabs...  I cant remember if it was in chimera but I think that was.  Or some other keyboard shortcut for switching tabs.
On the mouse issue I think apple has plenty of options to innovate mice, beacuse they haven't changed much for 3 plus years, and the basic idea of the mouse has been around since the first macintosh, 30+ years ago.  A mouse like the optical mouse that comes with mac's now would be tight if you toutched the left and left clicked, or if you could toutch the right to right click; but maintain the single surface on the top.  It would have to be like a toutch screen...  That would be good for the functionality and design.


----------



## Androo (Feb 25, 2003)

How did you guys get it? It's not supposed to come out till next month, and you already have it? Are you a part of the apple seed program???


----------



## twister (Feb 25, 2003)

*Androo*  It's just a non-public beta.  Gotten from who knows where.

[Fryke's Edit: Don't post links to warez or means how to get them...]


----------



## wdw_ (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mr. K _
> *has anyone figured out the forms autofill yet?  Or has it been overlooked by the tabs   great job on tabs apple, I like how you guys reinvented the look, didn't just copy it from chimera  *



Auto Forms dosen't refer to something like the Auto Fill feature in IE. It's a feature where Safari remembers what you typed in search and form boxes and which site it was at. You could go to versiontracker.com, type "s" and all the searches you've made with an s would come up like the pic shows. I've seen this feature on windows. It's very useful.







Attachment: autocomplete.jpg


----------



## hunt045 (Feb 25, 2003)

Yesterday I downloaded the .dmg image of this pre-released version.  Upon reading of the problems that alot of people were having with this build, I decided to not install it and wait for the finial official Apple release. Preferabily thru the software update facility.  Yes, I would like Tabs, but I'll wait.


----------



## Jason (Feb 25, 2003)

ah, good call wdw, thanks


----------



## porteous (Feb 26, 2003)

The tabs are fine, as is the auto-complete feature. I'm now about to move from Netscape 7.0 as my default browser to Safari. It's great!

And what was that other browser I used for seven years or so? Oh, yes - Internet Explorer. No need to even mention it now....


----------



## Jason (Feb 26, 2003)

it still needs keychain shtuffs etc for remembering passwords


----------



## gwynarion (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *Anyway, about them inverted tabs -- anyone think being able to optionally put them below the content area might be worthwhile? *



No.  All the browser controls that you access regularly are at the top of the application, as they are in many other apps and the OS windows.  Splitting the controls top and bottom is a wrotten idea as it forces you to continually move between the top and bottom of the app.

And no, that does not mean the Dock should move to the top as well.  The dock is a sort of screen metaphor and functions very well the way it is now.  Besides, if it were at the top it would interfere with the funtion of the menu bar.


----------



## Chibi15 (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by drustar _
> *What's so buggy about the new build? *



It crashes on many occasions - they are hardly reproduceable though - sometimes it crashes when i open a tab (a blank one), sometimes not - it also tends to crash fairly often when i hit the back button.

And it also crashes sometimes when i am submitting forms.


----------



## fryke (Feb 26, 2003)

I've merged your two posts, Chibi15. Please use the 'edit' button if you have to add something to a just submitted post.

Apart from that: It hasn't crashed on me in the last 2.3 days... And I'm using it with five tabs always open, adding one or two from time to time... Maybe trash your prefs would help?


----------



## dlloyd (Feb 26, 2003)

Fryke, why do you have the software, but you won't let us get it? (Yes, yes, yes, I know about the site rules...)


----------



## fryke (Feb 26, 2003)

You gave the answer.


----------



## boi (Feb 26, 2003)

did this build of safari kill ichat for anyone else? ichat is extremely laggy for me when v62 is open.


----------



## rhale1 (Feb 26, 2003)

What is this about "Welcome Safari User" on Apple's site. I haven't heard of this...


----------



## twister (Feb 26, 2003)

it's gone rhale1  

Apple used to put up a graphic that said Welcome Safari User. It's just a HTML trick that reads the browser type and if it was Safari they put in an extra ( or different ) image.


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rhale1 _
> *What is this about "Welcome Safari User" on Apple's site. I haven't heard of this... *



this. It was when Safari was released, in MWSF, till ... when?


----------



## rhale1 (Feb 26, 2003)

Thanks. I never saw that... wonder why? I had Safari on Day 1.

Another question (I also put this in Web Works in case that is the more 'proper' place to put it): How do I do this? I have never in my years of working with HTML used this 'trick'.

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## Giaguara (Feb 26, 2003)

Detecting it.

--the place for that code is obviously in header.


----------



## Arden (Feb 26, 2003)

I still think Safari's tabs should be in a drawer, or a sheet that slides down from the top of the page when you click a button in the nav bar like the open/save dialogs.  Also, I like the idea of the mouse being right-side-clickable, though I think the trackwheel idea is a little much at this point.  (Second button first, wheels later...)  I further think the Next Big Thing Apple should do is make the mouse optional on computers like the iMac by offering them in touch-screen versions.  I know some companies offered touch-screen-modified iMacs for resale, but if Apple did it it would probably sell like crazy.  The mouse should stick around for things like games, but it should be optional.  And Bluetooth is definitely the way to go for input.  (They've got it on the 17" Powerbook, so it should spread to the rest of the line soon.)


----------



## mightyjlr (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *I still think Safari's tabs should be in a drawer, or a sheet that slides down from the top of the page when you click a button in the nav bar like the open/save dialogs.  Also, I like the idea of the mouse being right-side-clickable, though I think the trackwheel idea is a little much at this point.  (Second button first, wheels later...)  I further think the Next Big Thing Apple should do is make the mouse optional on computers like the iMac by offering them in touch-screen versions.  I know some companies offered touch-screen-modified iMacs for resale, but if Apple did it it would probably sell like crazy.  The mouse should stick around for things like games, but it should be optional.  And Bluetooth is definitely the way to go for input.  (They've got it on the 17" Powerbook, so it should spread to the rest of the line soon.) *



I rarely disagree with someone's post as much as I do with yours.  Making someone first have to click a button, and than click on a tab almost kills the functionality of the tabs in the first place.  They are meant to replace windows.  I dont have to click a button to go to a different browser window, I just have to click on the window.  Putting this in a sheet makes no sense.  2 mouse clicks instead of one.  If Apple were to implement a mouse with more than 1 button, and doesn't put on a wheel, than it is still behind in terms of technology and ease of use.  No one can argue how useful the wheel mice are... they are simply very handy to use.  And your last point... touch-screen iMacs?  The closest thing we'll probably ever see is a tablet powerbook or something like that.  I would hate to have to stop typing and reach to my screen to send this message.  Neither would anyone else I know.  It isn't good for a desktop computer, it is handy for say a car navigation screen, but not for a computer.  Type type type, reach to screen, type type type, reach to screen.  Drag finger across screen.  Double-tap screen.  I have used touch screen computers in consumer electronics stores like Radio Shack and Best Buy.  They are used for information kiosks.  I HATE them because reaching to the screen isn't very friendly, and alot of times it doesnt work right.  These are my thoughts.  Please don't take offense to this post, I am just disagreeing with your thoughts.


----------



## edX (Feb 26, 2003)

i'm with jlr. personally i hate drawers and sidebars with a  passion. i've hated them in every browser that has ever had them. i hate them in mail. they are the ugliest, least functional peice of garbage ever to grace a gui. the whole concept demands that you save screen space for them if you ever intend to use them at all. i don't mind the idea of them being an option, but personally i want any info like that to be as strealined as possible. i wish i could have have my accounts in mail listed like my bookmark bar in safari rather than on the friggin side. and also about the touchscreen - like i want to do sit ups all day to use my computer. my screen is certainly further than arm's length away. not to mention my lack of desire to have clean my screen every few hours from the smudges i've put on it.


----------



## fryke (Feb 28, 2003)

I've been using Safari 1.0v62 for a few days now, and I must say that the implementation of tabs is not only stable (I haven't crashed Safari ONCE, I swear...) but also nicely embedded in the brushed metal GUI.

The fact that the tabs are the wrong way round is still a bit confusing, but I don't know whether it would look good the _right_ way round - because of the UI theme chosen.

And drawers are certainly the wrong UI element for a tabs replacement, I think. Maybe it would be good to be able to switch the tabs from horizontal to vertical, but _inside_ the window, more like IE 5.2.2 has its panes... (And no, I didn't mean 'pains'.)


----------



## edX (Feb 28, 2003)

> IE 5.2.2 has its panes... (And no, I didn't mean 'pains'.)



yes you did


----------



## Arden (Feb 28, 2003)

You both have valid points, and I realize now the inconvenience of putting tabs in a drawer.  Maybe if the tab bar (or the whole navbar) hid itself like the Dock does...

On the point about touch screens, I realize they are not for everyone.  Note I said they should offer touch screen versions, not necessarily make all computers touch screen.  I can see how you might not want a touch screen if all you do is type all day (which I hope you don't!  ).  But certain aspects of computing lend themselves very well to a touch screen.  Graphics, for example.  I find using the mouse to draw or select in Photoshop somewhat cumbersome, and I would love to be able to simply touch the screen where I want my marquee or soft brush line to go.

Of course, all the computing I do is right in front of me; the monitors are always within arm's reach, so that's not an issue for me.  And I realize there may be issues with pushing small widgets on a touch screen; the handheld industry solved that issue by inventing the stylus.


----------



## Androo (Feb 28, 2003)

HEY what happened to the quick reply box?!!??!?
anyways, i just got safari v62 (HOW DID I GET IT? IT IS A MYSTERY!). It's kind of slow, unstable, but the tabs are AWESOME! i forgot how cool tabs were......
I can't wait till v70 next month.....


----------



## gwynarion (Feb 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *But certain aspects of computing lend themselves very well to a touch screen.  Graphics, for example.  I find using the mouse to draw or select in Photoshop somewhat cumbersome, and I would love to be able to simply touch the screen where I want my marquee or soft brush line to go.*



No disrespect meant, but I don't think you've thought this one through very much nor used a touch-screen system very often.  First of all they are not very accurate.  Part of the reason for this is that you have to be looking at them straight on to really be able to see what you are touching.  And kind of differing angle of vision and it becomes much more dificult to predict.

Now the way they determine where you are doing something is by using a grid of infrared beams in front of the screen.  For one thing this requires depth that makes it nearly impossible to implement on anything with a thin lcd screen, so there goes Apple's whole line of monitors.  But more importantly (using the graphics work you cited as an example) this would mean that your precision in controlling things becomes the size of your fingertip.  Now if all the graphics work you do is closely related to finger-painting then you'll be fine, but if you're looking for pixel-precise control then you are in trouble.

And have you considered that if you were trying to do anything thing like this with a touch screen your finger would be in the way of your line-of-sight to the monitor?  In order to see the part of the screen directly beneath your finger you would need to move your head to one side, which brings us back to the problem mentioned before about not being able to accurately place your finger on the screen.

Finally, having your finger/hand be in nearly constant contact with the screen is just bad ergonomics.  Your posture would be bad and your arm would probably get quite tired.  If you really need something better for graphics work than a mouse then your best bet would be a graphics tablet.  After all, this is the purpose for which they exist.


----------



## Foxman26 (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Chibi15 _
> *Here you can see what safari with tabs look like.
> It is a screenshot from v62 - which is bleeding edge, but unstable as hell. *



I have been running safari with tabs for a week or so now and i have had no problem with it. It has never crashed and i have had no more problem loading sites with it than i have had with the apple release of safari.


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

Safari v64 has been seen in the wild. And it has better tabs support. 

The background tabs are a bit brighter compared to the last build, they now have a rollover effect. Somebody mentioned the ability to open more than one tab with one click, but I haven't found that yet.


----------



## wdw_ (Mar 7, 2003)

There's a new option in the debug menu named "AutoComplete Forms With Address Book". It sounds like the AutoFill feature from IE, but I haven't been able to get it to work.


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

Maybe it's not yet active, really. We'll see. But everything seems coming along well with Safari as far as I can see. 

Also: Apple-Shift-ArrowLeft (and ArrowRight) now switches between tabs. Great!


----------



## Daniel9 (Mar 7, 2003)

MacSofa recently posted some news about the new beta of safari. Hope they post some screen shots....
MacSofa


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

MacSofa only repeated MacRumors.


----------



## binaryDigit (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gwynarion _
> *...
> Now the way they determine where you are doing something is by using a grid of infrared beams in front of the screen.  For one thing this requires depth that makes it nearly impossible to implement on anything with a thin lcd screen, so there goes Apple's whole line of monitors. ...*



I agree with most of your comments but I just wanted to add a note of clarification here.  There are generally two types of touch screens, ones that use led's like you mention, but others that use either capacitive or resistive glass/film.  It is this latter kind that is most often used on lcd displays as they add very little to the thickness of the display (I have two myself and you'd never know they were touch screens).  This is how those tiny little pda's can have touch screens and still be tiny.


----------



## Jason (Mar 7, 2003)

download status shows in tabs now


----------



## SGX (Mar 7, 2003)

i've been using v.64, its just amazing, really like it. The tabs workjust brilliantly, the new lighter look for background tabs is much better, especially when using the aqua striped look(what i do), just fits in better. I like the way the tabs are positioned, just looks n feels quality.


----------



## Decado (Mar 7, 2003)

fryke wrote:
Also: Apple-Shift-ArrowLeft (and ArrowRight) now switches between tabs. Great! 

It worked allready with v62.
I like the look of the new tabs (from the screenshot). The lighter grey makes the dividers more clear. But what do you mean by a "roll-over"-effect?


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

they become a bit darker when you move the mouse over them before clicking.


----------



## Decado (Mar 7, 2003)

Thank you!


----------



## cybergoober (Mar 7, 2003)

Anyone else notice that in .64 if you have a folder of bookmarks in your bookmarks bar the bottom-most selection is "Open in Tabs"?

I guess kinda like tab-groups (but a little more flexible IMO)


----------



## cybergoober (Mar 7, 2003)

Meh. Forgot to attach image (this should be an option when you edit!)


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 7, 2003)

I really like the progress wheel in each tab. Very useful...

In a word - wow. Safari's tab implementation is now superior to that of Camino. I am duly impressed. I hope the Camino developers don't site idly by. There's no reason why these improvements can't be made to Camino as well, but I guess time will tell...

On a disappointing note - my online banking service STILL doesn't work in Safari.


----------



## SGX (Mar 7, 2003)

yeahm the spinning wheel is a nice touch. i ditched IE after the first beta of safari, have now ditched chimera/camino now too, they're still good, but i'm a one browser man, unless checking code. lol


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 7, 2003)

V64 .. tabs open BEHIND Active Window, thanks! like that! ... *you can change it via the Debug Menu* 
AutoComplete has been updated some, dunno how much better that is, but hey! 

its getting Better!!


----------



## Decado (Mar 7, 2003)

But now you can't open a bookmark in a new tab. if i try to use the command-click on a toolbarfolder it just open all of the bookmarks in it


----------



## toast (Mar 7, 2003)

Last remarks about tabgroups, background tab-opening, etc, may make me change browser I've just downloaded Camino 0.7 (yuck ! what an ugly name ! anyway) and I can't wait to get v64 of Safari


----------



## toast (Mar 7, 2003)

Yeah ! Just found v64, WONDERFUL !
Switching to Safari very soon.


----------



## RPS (Mar 7, 2003)

Ever since the first Safari, I've been using it, and I ditched IE. But now I found 64, so I downloaded it, but it unexpectedly quits when I open it, and the old versions (60 and 62) now do the same.  ?


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

Just backup your Safari prefs and delete them. Then try again. At first try my copy of v64 didn't want to start (from the .dmg), but when I copied it to the /Applications folder, it was working just fine. And v60 still runs beautifully, too.


----------



## RPS (Mar 7, 2003)

i can only find safaricon.plist and that didnt help anything. 


I'm forced to use Internet Explorer! The horror!


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 7, 2003)

Camino..!!!


----------



## fryke (Mar 7, 2003)

try com.apple.Safari.plist


----------



## RPS (Mar 7, 2003)

Done. Nothing. Can we chat?


----------



## Drizzt (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *Done. Nothing. Can we chat? *



Do you have something called pithhelmet installed?  I was reading about users on the macnn forums having the same problem and they had that app installed.  Apparently removing it fixed the quiting issue for them.


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 7, 2003)

I've been working with the v64 beta of Safari for the last few hours and I have to say that I've been very pleased with its performance.  A lot of the weird errors I saw in terms of rendering in v62 have been cleared up.  However there is one annoying bug that persists.

When I open Safari I get a single screen with no tabs in it.  Every thing's good so far.  When I open a tab (or a tab "group") the tab bar appears at the top of the window, making the content window slightly smaller.  Still all good.  The problem appears when I close all the tabs, leaving a single window.  When the last tab closes the tab bar disappears, but instead of expanding the content window upwards while leaving the bottom of the window where it was, it keeps the content window the same size and simply "pulls" the bottom of the application window up.  So now I have Safari ending 20-30 pixels above my dock where it was snugged right up against it before.  From an aesthetic and functionality stand point I find this annoying and ungraceful.


----------



## chnobody (Mar 7, 2003)

Using the v64 beta of Safari, I find that now I cannot load the www.lordoftherings.net web site.  This used to work just fine earlier.  Anybody else see this problem?  Otherwise, love the tabs!!!


----------



## Drizzt (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gwynarion _
> *I've been working with the v64 beta of Safari for the last few hours and I have to say that I've been very pleased with its performance.  A lot of the weird errors I saw in terms of rendering in v62 have been cleared up.  However there is one annoying bug that persists.
> 
> When I open Safari I get a single screen with no tabs in it.  Every thing's good so far.  When I open a tab (or a tab "group") the tab bar appears at the top of the window, making the content window slightly smaller.  Still all good.  The problem appears when I close all the tabs, leaving a single window.  When the last tab closes the tab bar disappears, but instead of expanding the content window upwards while leaving the bottom of the window where it was, it keeps the content window the same size and simply "pulls" the bottom of the application window up.  So now I have Safari ending 20-30 pixels above my dock where it was snugged right up against it before.  From an aesthetic and functionality stand point I find this annoying and ungraceful. *



I agree w/ you.  It annoyed me in v62 and I was really hoping that since it was such a small tidbit that it would be easily fixed for v64.  Still not the case.  Kind of disapointing, but I guess it shouldn't be that much to complain about for being what was meant to be an internal beta.  I do hope it's fixed by the official release though.


----------



## toast (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chnobody _
> *Using the v64 beta of Safari, I find that now I cannot load the www.lordoftherings.net web site.  This used to work just fine earlier.  Anybody else see this problem?  Otherwise, love the tabs!!! *


----------



## RPS (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Drizzt _
> *Do you have something called pithhelmet installed?  I was reading about users on the macnn forums having the same problem and they had that app installed.  Apparently removing it fixed the quiting issue for them. *



You are my savior!


----------



## chnobody (Mar 8, 2003)

Thanks toast for showing the www.lordoftherings.net page loading.  I'm using the new Flash player version 6.0.79.0.  What version were you using?  Maybe this is an issue with this new player?


----------



## chnobody (Mar 8, 2003)

Well, that was interesting.  Regarding the www.lordoftherings.net web page loading, I went back to v62 and there it loaded properly.  I tried an older version of the flash plug-in, but that didn't seem to make a difference.  I ended up telling Safari to erase the cache and then tried to load the site.  From this point on the site is loading properly as a Flash site.  Must have been some old cache error...  Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## RPS (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Drizzt _
> *Do you have something called pithhelmet installed?  I was reading about users on the macnn forums having the same problem and they had that app installed.  Apparently removing it fixed the quiting issue for them. *



Oh and can I install PithHelmet again now, or do I have to wait until they release a bug fix?
Damn popups.


----------



## whitesaint (Mar 8, 2003)

I can't get tabs working with Safari v64!  Help!  How Do i open links n new tabs?


----------



## fryke (Mar 8, 2003)

Download Safari Enhancer from versiontracker.com and enable the Debug menu. There, activate the use of tabs. Then, you can ctrl-click links and open them in new tabs. Also, Apple-T will open a new tab, then. But as of build v64, tabs are not yet 'just available'. Need the debug menu.


----------



## Drizzt (Mar 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *Oh and can I install PithHelmet again now, or do I have to wait until they release a bug fix?
> Damn popups. *



Honestly I don't know.  The Macnn forum users haven't mentioned anything about having reinstalled it since installing the new Safari.  I guess you could try it and see if it brings back the problem again.  Sorry I couldn't give you a better idea though.


----------



## gigi (Mar 8, 2003)

quit safari, open terminal and type:

defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1 

relaunch safari, the debug menu is on the right and you can turn tabs (etc.) on there

this info was found on /.
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/07/1233206


----------



## fryke (Mar 8, 2003)

Question... Now that Apple probably has seen on message boards and rumour sites all over the world that we _wanted_ tabs, that we _found_ them in v62 and up, do you think Apple will release a beta with it as a 'featured' feature anytime soon?

The feature seems quite complete and stable, some people are even talking about Apple releasing one of the coming builds as 1.0 final...

I'm not sure what Apple planned for a release date, but having tested all recent builds, I have to say I'd be glad about a WWDC 2003 release for Safari 1.0.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 8, 2003)

I don't think we'll see a "1.0" Safari anytime before the release of 10.3. I do think Apple will continue to release monthly builds with incremental feature updates & bug fixes, but what I've heard is that Apple is in no rush to deem Safari 1.0 finished until it's rock solid and is as competent at rendering sites as Mozilla and IE.


----------



## bobw (Mar 8, 2003)

New version of PithHelmet 

What's new in this version:

Updated to fix crashing bug with Safari v64 
Special code to handle content filtering in Safari v64 (had to be totally rewritten) 
Updated rule set to be more effective against certain types of ads 
100% backward compatible with earlier versions of Safari (pre-v64)


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 8, 2003)

Autocomplete seems pretty good, for your own personal details, providing you have your own address card nicely filled in!  

It runs well for me, crashes rarely. I'd like to see the ability to have hyperlinks from iChat, Mail and apps, open in new Tabs, as opposed to new windows, but hey ... one thing at a time! ... its coming along nicely! 

As for Ver1 ... yea, i agree, i think they'd steadily  make this browser solid, and leave Safari 1.0 for Panther (It was Panther, right?  ) ... at the same time, can't they ditch IE now, and make Safari default Browser? 

Neyo


----------



## fryke (Mar 8, 2003)

1) Yep, it's 'Panther'. Unless Steve renames it and makes rumour sites look bad. 

2) The tab feature is quite new in Safari, I guess the desired preference will make it into a release when the tab feature is done.

3) Guess we can safely assume that Safari 1.0, when finished, will be the default browser. Makes no sense to have their own product and then hide it.


----------



## SGX (Mar 9, 2003)

another nice touch in v64 is the backround tabs having the striped aqua look when safari is run under the striped look. nice touch, better than before when it retained the brushed metal appearance


----------



## chevy (Mar 9, 2003)

And it is possible that Safari 1.0 REQUIRES 10.3.


----------



## hulkaros (Mar 9, 2003)

v64 is amazing!

Tabbed Safari surfs  as in rocks


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *And it is possible that Safari 1.0 REQUIRES 10.3. *



Good Thinking!!! ... i never thought of that! ... i am really looking forward to a major update! .. now i have a nice little Desktop machine, its much more interesting! 

...Anyone running Aqua Safari, fancy showing it to me? ... i wouldn't mind a glance ... ( @ v64 ) ... i am curious!

Neyo


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 9, 2003)

While i mention 10.3 ... what do u think the chances are, of having write access to FTP Volumes, via the Finder ... that really Bugs me!


----------



## SGX (Mar 9, 2003)

here you go aqua safari!!! v64


----------



## ScottW (Mar 9, 2003)

Does it support "tabbed bookedmarks" ???


----------



## fryke (Mar 9, 2003)

Yes. Even better.* You just drop them into a folder and then Apple-Click the folder from the bookmark bar, for example, or use the last submenu of the folder, which reads 'open in tabs'.

*Even better, because you don't have to save the bookmarks twice, once in a group and once for themselves...


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 9, 2003)

I've found, leaving a tab open, then clicking a URL, in Mail, for example loads the URL in the previously empty Tab! ... not bad! ... anyone seen that?


----------



## Mac Write (Mar 10, 2003)

I hope tabbed browsing isn't the only option.

There are lots of times were I need seperate windows open to compare things, etc.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 10, 2003)

you aren't limited to tabs, you can use as many windows as u wish, freely, also!


----------



## Decado (Mar 10, 2003)

whats the point getting rid of the metal? i think it looks really good on safari, very elegant since there is so little of it.


----------



## fryke (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *I've found, leaving a tab open, then clicking a URL, in Mail, for example loads the URL in the previously empty Tab! ... not bad! ... anyone seen that?  *


Just verified that! That's GREAT... Just always keep an open empty tab, and we can wait patiently for Apple to implement that preference...


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Just verified that! That's GREAT... Just always keep an open empty tab, and we can wait patiently for Apple to implement that preference...  *



wow, i found it by accident too! ... its quite neat! i am learning to leave tabs open now! 

Neyo


----------



## bolindilly (Mar 10, 2003)

hi all:
i have beta v64, but i don't see any tabs...
how do i turn tabs on?

thanks


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bolindilly _
> *hi all:
> i have beta v64, but i don't see any tabs...
> how do i turn tabs on?
> ...





> _Originally posted by gigi _
> *quit safari, open terminal and type:
> 
> defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1
> ...



there mate


----------



## twister (Mar 10, 2003)

I can't wait till apple lets me download it.  I think i can wait till then.  Any chance that Spell Check is always on?


----------



## toast (Mar 10, 2003)

Safari is about to reach first place in pirated software history?


----------



## fryke (Mar 10, 2003)

Hmm, I guess there were much more Jaguar builds downloaded, though, mostly because there simply _were_ more...


----------



## Arden (Mar 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *I can't wait till apple lets me download it.  I think i can wait till then.*


***BZZT***
Brain... malfunctioning....  Oxymoron... too... confusing...  Vital... systems... shutting... dowâ


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 10, 2003)

i hate having to goto File / New Tab, all the time, for "a new tab" (lol) ... sometimes i have one hand on the mouse, one on the Coffee .. i don't wanna hit Apple+T... 

Basically, i'd love a button the toolbar, for "new tab" ... is it possible? ... applescript or something?! *clueless*

NeYo


----------



## mr. k (Mar 10, 2003)

haha anyone else get the default stylesheet (in preferences - appearance) to make all plain text green? :b I got my hands on build 64 and its nice   although whenever I command click on a link i get a new window and a new tab   But i do love it! downloaded camino the other day to see if I liked it still and nope   safari forever...


----------



## hulkaros (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *i hate having to goto File / New Tab, all the time, for "a new tab" (lol) ... sometimes i have one hand on the mouse, one on the Coffee .. i don't wanna hit Apple+T...
> 
> Basically, i'd love a button the toolbar, for "new tab" ... is it possible? ... applescript or something?! *clueless*
> ...



Yep, a button is a VERY logical solution and I have some more:
-Click & hold for a second (or CTRL+click) would give us a menu similar (or the same) to the one we get when Tabs are already visible. This would occur when the click happens on the menu/bookmark bar
-Double Click on the menu/bookmark bar
-Similar to Mozilla where there is an option to show always the Tabs even when only one page is viewed
-Or use the "+" button which now functions as method to add a bookmark by click & hold for a second or two, or even when it is double clicked (I know it sounds confusing but is it?)

As for the New Tab button could be located next to the Bookmark/History button either at left or right...

Some ideas but excuse me anyways because Hulkaros isn't known for his ideas!   His alter ego Bruce Banner on the other hand...


----------



## fryke (Mar 11, 2003)

A button of some sort would surely be nice for users without a keyboard.


----------



## evildan (Mar 11, 2003)

I have to say that I've always been "anti-tabs" but lately I was hoping that Apple would include them in the browser -- just so people would stop asking for it...  It's driving me crazy !!


----------



## Arden (Mar 11, 2003)

I think I'm going to expand my list of suggested changes to Mac OS X (see my signature) to include applications included therein, including Safari.  Check it out and give your feedback.

I think _any_ browser that uses tabs should have an option to automatically open any window in a new tab, rather than just certain windows.  I like tabs and I would like to be able to surf without multiple windows opening up all the time, when only certain windows open in tabs.


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mr. K _
> *haha anyone else get the default stylesheet (in preferences - appearance) to make all plain text green?*


Some of my text shows up in primary green (I'm assuming text on pages where the designer didn't specify a text colour), and it's really irritating.  I had a look at the style sheet that is listed in the preferences and couldn't find anything in there that seemed to control this.  I'd love to correct it, if anyone has any suggestions.  Thanks.


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 11, 2003)

I completely agree with the reasons David Hyatt puts forward for the order in which (and placement of) tabs open.  I think it makes perfect sense.  That said, I wish that I could drag a tab to reorder them.  For instance I now have tabs at the opposite end of the bar that are related.  They are widely separated because I opened them at different times, but they both go to the same site (different pages) and I'd like to be able to put them togather.  That's my opinion, at any rate.  What do others think?


----------



## fryke (Mar 11, 2003)

Dragging tabs around would be a great feature. Love it.


----------



## Arden (Mar 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gwynarion _
> *Some of my text shows up in primary green (I'm assuming text on pages where the designer didn't specify a text colour), and it's really irritating.  I had a look at the style sheet that is listed in the preferences and couldn't find anything in there that seemed to control this.  I'd love to correct it, if anyone has any suggestions.  Thanks. *


In the stylesheet, look for the tag "body {...}" or enter it yourself, and between the brackets enter "color: black;".  You should have a tag saying 
	
	



```
"body {...
color: black;
...}"
```
The body tag should be one word, not "body.anything" or "body#otherstuff".  Make sure the attribute before "color" has a semicolon and that it itself has a semicolon too.


----------



## evildan (Mar 12, 2003)

okay, I will be the first to admit it, I take back everything bad I ever said about tabbed browsing. I'm happy to have it as a feature. I don't know if I will 100% convert, but for development, it's nice to have both my test page and final published page in the same window. It makes it very easy to toggle between the two, to witness minute changes in alignment, etc.

I can't say I'm very happy about the lost vertical space, but that can easily be gained back by learning the quick-keys, "command+b", which will toggle the bookmark row. By doing this it just about makes up for the space the tabs require.

And minimizing the address bar (command+|) works out well, if you can train yourself to type "command+L" before you type your address. Or "command+T" then "command+L".

Below is a screen shot to a very minimized browser window, which is great for my laptop.


----------



## Arden (Mar 12, 2003)

Wow, I'm flattered that you would include part of my post in your pic!


----------



## fryke (Mar 13, 2003)

the problem for me is that the total window vertical size doesn't stay. so basically, you don't win anything when minimizing the location and bookmark bar as you do in IE or OmniWeb... Cmd-L should, for example, only create an overlay, it should shrink the content window by the amount the location bar needs - and only for the short moment you actually need it...


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 18, 2003)

Wait for Thursday ... v66.


----------



## twister (Mar 18, 2003)

are you sure? I'm so ready.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Wait for Thursday ... v66.  *



oooh! nice! ....Here Giaguara ... 

<< NeYo Passes email >>

neyo@spymac.com 

hehe!

NeYo


----------



## Arden (Mar 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *<< NeYo Passes email >>*


Is that painful?  Do you have to eat a lot of fiber to do that? 

Is v66 going to actually include tabs?


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 19, 2003)

Wait for tomorrow, guys


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Is that painful?  Do you have to eat a lot of fiber to do that?
> 
> Is v66 going to actually include tabs? *



Lol! ...Quiet funny ... "for an american!"   

haha! 

NeYo


----------



## twister (Mar 19, 2003)

It's tomorrow somewhere.


----------



## fryke (Mar 19, 2003)

Hmm... That'd be Thursday, Cupertino time. And not the early morning hours, either, I guess.


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 19, 2003)

Cmon? You want to know the hour now as well? 
Isn't "tomorrow" enough if it's finally the official release?


----------



## Arden (Mar 19, 2003)

For an American?  You think we United States citizens don't have a sense of humor?


----------



## fryke (Mar 19, 2003)

I guess he mixed up 'humour' with 'irony'. iirc, the Americans are lacking a sense for irony, not a sense of humour.


----------



## Decado (Mar 19, 2003)

And good candy. they are lacking good candy. It all tastes like cinnamon-soap! 
I will be quiet now, and meditate.


----------



## Decado (Mar 19, 2003)

Hello???
It is thursday in sweden now! where is my safari?


----------



## twister (Mar 19, 2003)

We're going to be so disappointed when friday rolls around and no safari.  If that happens.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *For an American?  You think we United States citizens don't have a sense of humor? *



haha! ... Ummm *no comment* ... maybe, we English are JUST Stupid! ... ?


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *I guess he mixed up 'humour' with 'irony'. iirc, the Americans are lacking a sense for irony, not a sense of humour. *


Some of us have a properly seeted sense of irony--those of us not members of the GOP (Greedy Oil Party).  When you register as a Republican you have to turn in your irony along with your common sense and morality.


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 19, 2003)

A little _off-topic_ maybe?


----------



## twister (Mar 19, 2003)

i agree.  lets keep this thread on Safari please.


----------



## twister (Mar 20, 2003)

Ummmm.   Is it still coming today?


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 20, 2003)

...can we kick Giaguara's ass, for misleading us?!


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 20, 2003)

No, because Giaguara is not here! She timed her absence perfectly, you can't beat up on her!


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *No, because Giaguara is not here! She timed her absence perfectly, you can't beat up on her! *



Guys, form an ORDERLY Queue, OUR Time will come ... She will see!   

hehe! 

Neyo


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 20, 2003)

Don't you dare, of course she isn't!
I won't reveal anything more without her permission, but here in a hint: her iChat status yesterday alternated between 'Packing' and '******'.............

_[Hehehè... keep it private. G.]_


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *No, because Giaguara is not here! She timed her absence perfectly, you can't beat up on her! *



Yea yea yea...  

I didn't plan to be offline 24 h while the v66 was going to be out or less. My absence has/had an other reason.

Neyo,  I don't surprisingly see now online the accreditable person for the rumor. It would be 4 am in his time zone. Be sure I'll bug.


----------



## twister (Mar 20, 2003)

yea details.  

On a not exactly related note, i download the latest Camino nightly build and it's sweet!  

Ohh La la - The battle for my primary browser is heating up!


----------



## SGX (Mar 21, 2003)

v67 is out, enjoy


----------



## dantjie (Mar 21, 2003)

Where? Oh where?


----------



## mr. k (Mar 21, 2003)

yeah, has anyone seen the v67?  A screenshot was on spymac.com, looks kind of interesting.  It has a little pen in the top by the other buttons and it runs autofill.  I want!


----------



## SGX (Mar 21, 2003)

em, its out there, have a look around it has tabs i the prefernces pane now not in the debug list. its got a few more things in the tabs too, also the spinning wheels work better.


----------



## twister (Mar 21, 2003)

Still waiting for it in Software Update!


----------



## Aftershock (Mar 21, 2003)

Using v67 now. Feels much more stable than 64. Tabs and autofill are now in the preferences. Hope Safari 1.0 rolls out soon.


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aftershock _
> *Using v67 now. Feels much more stable than 64. Tabs and autofill are now in the preferences. Hope Safari 1.0 rolls out soon.
> *


Can you give some indication as to where you found it?  I've been noodling around in Acquisition and have yet to turn anything up...


----------



## twister (Mar 21, 2003)




----------



## SGX (Mar 21, 2003)

gwnarion, i havent seen it on *carracho*


----------



## Dale Sorel (Mar 21, 2003)




----------



## gwynarion (Mar 21, 2003)

Don't have Carracho and I can't say I've ever wanted to -- it's too much work just for an occassional file.  So, um, I guess it's good that it "isn't" there.  It's too bad it hasn't made it on to any web sites yet...


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 21, 2003)

Very off topic, but I really like you portfolio/resume, gwynerion!


----------



## SGX (Mar 21, 2003)

i heard a rumour from an old guy on a street corner that v67 was to be seen hanging around in acquisition territory, hope his info helps.


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 21, 2003)

SGX just reminding all new and old members here that you can talk about the unreleased software here but - just don't give links to where to get it. I said something about the v65 and v66 for example - but would remove all links to getting such software from the board.


----------



## SGX (Mar 21, 2003)

oops, sorry about that. i never know when to keep my gob shut. lol. cheers


----------



## RPS (Mar 21, 2003)

This new version certainly does feel more stable, don't know why though.. Also, finally, my biggest problem was that I couldn't open links that were posted on a forum in a new tab. Fixed! This version is twice as cool as 64! Good work Apple!

-edit: the tabs definately open up a bit snappier now, greatness.


----------



## Arden (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *This new version certainly does feel more stable, don't know why though..*


Because they specifically tweaked it to make it feel more stable so they could confuse you.

What other features does v67 have (besides autofill & tabs)?


----------



## RPS (Mar 21, 2003)

Aside from those two, nothing new. Just more stable. *But:*

The colors of inactive/active tabs are all messed up, (sometimes dark, sometimes not). Click here to see a pic


----------



## fryke (Mar 21, 2003)

it IS page 16 if you haven't set your pages to show more threads. 

v67's tab handling is buggy at best. was better in v64. :/


----------



## RPS (Mar 21, 2003)

Oh and I want a new PithHelmet dammit!


----------



## Stridder44 (Mar 21, 2003)

Yeah...Im just gonna stick with v60 until Apple posts and supports a new update. How the junk are you guys getting up to v67!!? I mean, we're not even at v62! Heh...im not saying it isnt possible to, Im just saying I don't know how to (and am interested in finding out)


----------



## Decado (Mar 21, 2003)

Some get it from apple to check for bugs, other gets it from *** (where some of the people who got it from apple happened to share it).


----------



## fryke (Mar 21, 2003)

Please keep away from hinting to warez.


----------



## Decado (Mar 21, 2003)

Ooops, sorry... didnt think it would be against the rules to name the technology. i mean, its practically like saying "other gets it from the internet..." 
Wont happen again, though.


----------



## mightyjlr (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *Aside from those two, nothing new. Just more stable. But:
> 
> The colors of inactive/active tabs are all messed up, (sometimes dark, sometimes not). Click here to see a pic *



it just looks like they added a gradient or something....


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 21, 2003)

Strange... until i became a "mac user", i never spent so much time checking up development on Apps, as i do these days! Crazy!! ... Back in the windows world, the only time i'd do the same, was with OS updates! I remember loads of BETA's and such for "Me, 2000, XP...", but never really Apps! Its cool tho, i like it!  

I am *JUST* getting v67 too! 

Neyo


----------



## Aftershock (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gwynarion _
> *Can you give some indication as to where you found it?  I've been noodling around in Acquisition and have yet to turn anything up... *



I was walking to work and I found it on the floor.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *it IS page 16 if you haven't set your pages to show more threads.
> 
> v67's tab handling is buggy at best. was better in v64. :/ *



Hey Fryke, whats up with the tabs in v67? I don't see any negative points with them, over v64. I like how u can command click, and it will now ALWAYS open in a new tab. Amongst other small things! 

Holla! ... ma fellow european


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *Very off topic, but I really like you portfolio/resume, gwynerion! *


Thank you   The Flash version is nearing completion and should be all ready to roll out within an other week or so.


----------



## Jason (Mar 21, 2003)

v67 is perfection thus far for me 

even fixed my probs i had with vb tables lining up


----------



## fryke (Mar 22, 2003)

Hmm... For me Apple-T doesn't open a new tab.
Command-Shift-Left (or Right) doesn't move to the previous (or next) tab.
Some tabs draw badly...
's about it with my grieves...

After reinstalling it just now, it kinda worked. But the redrawing problem (totally shiftet tabs) was too bad. Waiting for v68, really...


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 22, 2003)

Safari v67 shows some serious improvements. AutoForm complete works now, and works quite well. 

I don't see any of the issues Fryke has mentioned, however.

On a plus note, I can now *finally* get in to my online banking system. In limited testing, it works somewhat. For some reason, my online billpay page doesn't load, but everything else is operational.

Looks like Safari is just an eyelash away from dislodging Camino as my browser of choice!


----------



## themacko (Mar 22, 2003)

can someone tell me if 0.67 will connect to www.moosejaw.com

I actually went back to Camino because 0.64 wouldn't load that site .. at all!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 22, 2003)

www.moosejaw.com loads fine on my setup using v67....


----------



## RPS (Mar 22, 2003)

Yup loads fine here, too.


----------



## Jason (Mar 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Hmm... For me Apple-T doesn't open a new tab.
> Command-Shift-Left (or Right) doesn't move to the previous (or next) tab.
> Some tabs draw badly...
> ...



i have none of those problems myself... tried trashing prefs etc?


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 22, 2003)

Yea ...Fryke, sounds like your own misfortune mate, seems GREAT here!


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 22, 2003)

I don't know about your guys but my impression of Safari hasw always been that compared to Chimera / Camino it's always been slower.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 22, 2003)

> I don't know about your guys but my impression of Safari hasw always been that compared to Chimera / Camino it's always been slower



I find that Safari actually renders HTML just about as fast as Camino. They seem equal on this task...

However, I have problems with Safari attempting to load a URL, and after 60 secs, it times out. The funny thing is, if I attempt to load the same URL in Camino, it pops right up. Seems Safari has issues from time to time with URL fetching. I haven't quite discovered a pattern as to why it happens/why it doesn't, but it can be quite annoying. 

However, with each release it seems to happen less and less....


----------



## fryke (Mar 22, 2003)

Yup, it was mainly my problem. So I'm running v67 English now.

Problems I still have:
- If I open tab folders from the bookmark bar with apple-click or through the menu, the first tab behaves strangely, i.e. stays lit up, breaks over the 2nd one's limits (graphically) etc.
- German (included) version doesn't open windows, instead it crashes.

So far, though, so good. Let's hope for an even better release (and public, too) soon.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 22, 2003)

SlashDot Writes...



> "This morning Safari beta v67 was leaked to the Internet. Because this is the third time it has happened (v62 and v64 were leaked), Apple has apparantly had enough and decided to terminate the seed program that provided unreleased beta verisons to selected developers. In a email sent to all developers and posted on Mike Wendland's blog, Apple says: 'Due to Safari 67 postings to the internet, we have closed the Safari Seed project.  We know that the majority of you are not responsible for the leaks to the internet, and we sincerely appreciate your feedback, time and effort with this project.'"


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 22, 2003)

Wait, only 62, 64 and 67 leaked? So that makes the v65 special? Anyone wants that?


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 22, 2003)

By the way ... the great OPEN SOURCE thing Steve was talking about in MWSF when he released Safari - how can an "open source" software leak?


----------



## mr. k (Mar 23, 2003)

I don't really think it matters that safari has been leaked, it's a bigger deal that people probably went against rules that apple had set when they let people sign up for the seed program.  I think it would bee good if apple released nightly builds of safari like they do with chimera...  Nightly builds and the bug button would make it easier for the programming team to catch the little bugs faster.
Well, get your hands of v64 before it goes out of style!


----------



## mr. k (Mar 23, 2003)

Oh, btw as long as this is a safari discussion, whats the key command to switch tabs?  To the right or left...  I haven't been able to figure that one out yet.  Thanks!


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 23, 2003)

mr. K: it is Apple+Shift+arrow button.


----------



## Decado (Mar 23, 2003)

With "Safari Enhancer for v67" you can deactivate cache (or maybe you have always been able to do that, and i just missed it. Is this some kind of pipelining, or what is it good for?


----------



## mr. k (Mar 23, 2003)

Through the debug menu you can empty both WebCore and WebFoundation caches...  I think it's the same thing, but I am not sure.


----------



## Arden (Mar 23, 2003)

It's amazing how this thread has grown so large.


----------



## chevy (Mar 23, 2003)

Opening a list of bookmarks in one click is good... but I will then need several lines of tabs, not just one ! Or animated tabs "à la" Dock !


----------



## drustar (Mar 23, 2003)

I don't know if this has been posted but is there a way to sort your bookmarks alphabetically?


----------



## mr. k (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *mr. K: it is Apple+Shift+arrow button.
> *



Merci!


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 23, 2003)

You're welcome!


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 23, 2003)

Darn, no more 'leaking' 
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/03/03/22/2343249.shtml?tid=107


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 23, 2003)

Yea, that's an old thing dlloyd. besides - not only v62, v64 and v67 leakes out as slashdot says but e.g. i saw the v65 too. 

Does anyone remember Steve saying something about Open source when he introduced Safari?


----------



## moav (Mar 23, 2003)

Has anyone noticed on posting to ebay auctions some of the code is screwed up. We have about 500 current listings on ebay and some of the text becomes left justified for no reason when viewing through safari but not through some other browsers. Has this been fixed in v68?


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 23, 2003)

I do, however I think that meant that he was going to use the Open Source but not give anything back. 
Really though, what I heard is that he took the Konqueror source, optimized it, and then released the optinimzed code again. I don't think that means that he was making Safari open-source. :-\


----------



## binaryDigit (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Yea, that's an old thing dlloyd. besides - not only v62, v64 and v67 leakes out as slashdot says but e.g. i saw the v65 too.
> 
> Does anyone remember Steve saying something about Open source when he introduced Safari?  *



Yes he explicitly mentioned that Safari was based on an open source package and that Apple would be merging their modifications back into the project.  I don't know if Safari itself is open source, if the code that it's based on was released under the GPL, then it would have to be.  If it's using some other license, then it depends on what that other license is (LGPL, BSD, etc).


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 23, 2003)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 23, 2003)

WebCore, which is based on KHTML, is open source. The front end GUI of Safari is proprietary Apple technology. So Apple is required under the GPL to dump any changes/improvements they make to the KHTML engine back in to the project. But since the front end is not based on the GPL, Apple doesn't have to relinquish the source code for it.

I'm not sure how often Apple shares their improvements with the KHTML project. I know they originally didn't even tell them they were using the engine until Safari was officially released. Now that the cat is out off the bag (litterally), I wonder if they bank changes as they are made, or if they will wait for milestone releases before doing so.

As has been stated, there is a really good chance that OmniWeb will adopt the webcore KHTML engine for the next major release of OmniWeb. However, since Apple probably won't release webcore to the public until it gets real close to a 1.0 release for Safari, that could realistically mean that webcore won't be available for 3rd party implementation until this fall (if Safari does indeed ship a 1.0 around the same time as Panther)....


----------



## fryke (Mar 24, 2003)

webcore is released to the public (developers). however, omniweb might want to wait a bit, in order not to start developing and having to change everything again when webcore is (more) final... but you can get webcore and compile it yourself. i don't know whether the source is the newest, though, haven't looked at it for some time...


----------



## serpicolugnut (Mar 24, 2003)

According to David Hyatt, developers shouldn't even think about using webcore just yet - it's nowhere near ready.

From his weblog...



> If you're trying to embed the Safari layout engine right now, stop it!  Don't try to build code around these two components.
> 
> Update:: Quoted from ADC: "In addition to providing the best web browser for Mac users, one of the goals of Safari is to provide a fast and efficient HTML rendering engine for Mac application developers. Apple is actively
> preparing a Safari SDK that will be available later this year."
> ...


----------



## twister (Mar 24, 2003)

I just confirmed with myself and it's now an unconfirmed confirmed rumor report thingey.  Apple will release Safari with tabs for my birthday.  Now it's a little fuzzy exactly when but either in the week before or after.  So anytime before April 7th.


----------



## Androo (Mar 24, 2003)

Is it illegal to have v67 of safari, if you're not apart of apple's seed thingy? And Twister, happy almost birthday!


----------



## Snowball (Mar 24, 2003)

Yes, it is sadly. It won't happen, but it would be great if Apple implemented a nightly build program just like Camino.


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 24, 2003)

Nightly builds for an "open source" program?


----------



## mightyjlr (Mar 24, 2003)

nevermind


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 25, 2003)

I think I've found a bit of a bug in v67, so I'd be interested in whether or not anyone is seeing it.  I have found that when I set the preference to always display the tab bar I start to see rendering errors in the tabs.  Generally this happens only with the tabs at the left-most side of the screen.  What I'll see is one or two different things, usually.

The first is when I have only a few tabs open.  I see some extra weird lines being drawn or I'll see more than one tab saying that it is highlighted.  It doesn't impact the function of the tabs, but it certainly is ugly.

The second shows up when I have enough tabsd open that they start to shrink.  What happens here is that Safari will decide it wants to draw its tabs at the default width so it starts highlighting and stroking a normal size tab over whatever tabs are actually open.

Both of these behaviours disappear when I set it back to only display the tab bar when needed.


----------



## Arden (Mar 25, 2003)

I think someone mentioned that before.  Report it to Apple.


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

Ever wonder if apples really mad because of all the bug reports they get from the public on non-released versions. Sure tabs might not work right but they may have told testers what NOT to report bugs on.  Then the public gets it and reports all those bugs and pisses off apple.


----------



## gwynarion (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *Ever wonder if apples really mad because of all the bug reports they get from the public on non-released versions. Sure tabs might not work right but they may have told testers what NOT to report bugs on.  Then the public gets it and reports all those bugs and pisses off apple. *


This is one of the reasons why I have not been reporting bugs in these unreleased  versions.  I hope very much that Apple will release a public beta with tabs before they go to the full version as I think they would benefit from wider user input, especially now that they have closed the seed program.  I also hope that the 'Bug' button will remain in the final release version, though perhaps not "on" by default.


----------



## Androo (Mar 25, 2003)

does anyone know when a new preview release (v68 or v69), or v70 will come out? Yay they're close to v100, just a few more months and they'll probably release version 1.0!


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

1.0 with 10.3 is my bet. As far as a preview i don't know.  Hopefully soon.  I NEED TABS.


----------



## Arden (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *I NEED TABS. *


USE CHIMERA/CAMINO (at least until safari 1.0 comes out).


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

But camino has a bug that shows images when it should show a page. (kinda explained: http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30541&highlight=camino)  And that bugs the crap outta me.  Plus where is spell check in camino? 

I know i'm hard to please.


----------



## Androo (Mar 25, 2003)

Twister, why don't you just get 67? it's practically 70, except that when you download an mpeg it doesn't open automatically.


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 25, 2003)

.70? 
did i miss a new leak?


----------



## Androo (Mar 25, 2003)

70 will basically be like 67. 67 is 3 thingies away from 70. Besides, what else could they add in 3 little thingies?
yay


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> 70 will basically be like 67. 67 is 3* thingies* away from 70. Besides, what else could they add in 3 little *thingies*?
> yay



All this Techno is too much for me!  

<< Grabs Blonde Wig >>

NeYo


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

Don't know why but I don't feel like getting .67 before apple lets me. Maybe I'm crazy that way.  I just keep telling myself that it's coming tomorrow.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *Don't know why but I don't feel like getting .67 before apple lets me. Maybe I'm crazy that way.  I just keep telling myself that it's coming tomorrow.   *



...Just like them iPods!  

...


----------



## fryke (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *70 will basically be like 67. 67 is 3 thingies away from 70. Besides, what else could they add in 3 little thingies?
> yay *


Remember that tabbies were introduced just 2 thingies after v60?


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

True! 2 Thingies, wow! Does anyone find autocomplete useful yet? I've tried it on heaps of forms, and its been little use. And yet my address book is quite comprehensive for "me". But other than my own personal details, Safari doesn't seem to log stuff i type before. I visit one or two sites daily, where i have to enter a User ID and Pass, and it STILL requires me to do the same.  

...What is everyone expecting to come up shortly in Safari?! 

Sort Tabs by name would be nice.
Spell Check would make sense.
Downloads - Estimated time would be kinda nice.
...and i guess, overall compatibility increase... which WILL come, in time! 

Fryke, May i ask, why you're glad not to be american? ... i too am glad, being English is great!  ...oh, and do you eat toblerone?! lol

NeYo


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

Spell check is in there.  I just want it defaulted to 'check as you type' and ON all the time.

I also want the download to let me choose where to save the file AND then close the download window after the download is complete.

Tabs ( which are coming to the general public soon )

And the ability to log into wellsfargo.com


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

where is spell check in there, many users will probably claim "I" need it!


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

Spell check in safari?  Right click anywhere you type and go to spelling.

You can also speak it !!


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

Oooh, i didn't tick the part "Check as you type". Thanks man, thats one to "check off" my list! 

Dammit, its got me using proper words now 

NeYo


----------



## twister (Mar 25, 2003)

But it doesn't stay on.  You need to turn it on before you type EVERY-TIME.  

That's a bug.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

oh sh!t! Yea, ok, that'll be sorted, i am sure!


----------



## toast (Mar 25, 2003)

[Oh, by the way, webcore of Safari v68 is online. Check Hyatt's weblog.]


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *[Oh, by the way, webcore of Safari v68 is online. Check Hyatt's weblog.] *



What's Hyatt's weblog Addy again, i lost all my bookmarks a while back 

NeYo


----------



## moav (Mar 25, 2003)

Anyone have trouble with .ASP enabled sites using safari?


----------



## Arden (Mar 25, 2003)

Geez, give it a break, it's still in beta!  You think Safari will include all those six-legged features in the (so-called) final release?


----------



## Androo (Mar 25, 2003)

wait, if we're at thingy 67, and soon we'll be at v70, does that mean that v100 (33 thingies from now) will be version 1.0? Cuz if it is, then this is what i've figured it. 1.3 months=10 thingies. April=70. May=80. June=90 (the time that 10.3 is ANNOUNCED!) September=100!!! (i must skip a month, for it to be released with panther 10.3!). so just a bunch more months until the thingies reach 100!
i confooz myself.......
Cookies!


----------



## fryke (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *Fryke, May i ask, why you're glad not to be american? ... i too am glad, being English is great!  ...oh, and do you eat toblerone?! lol*


This might take us far into off-topic, so I hope to answer this one shortly.

I'm glad I'm not American, because if I were American, I'd have to decide either to be _against_ my country or _for_ war. Neither would be nice. As a Swiss person, I'm not in that dilemma. I can read news from the sources I want and decide for myself. Much less pressure. And yes, from time to time I do eat Toblerone, although there's certainly much better chocolate in Switzerland than that one. 

About webcore v68: Doesn't compile here without changes. javascriptcore v68 does compile, though, but I haven't tried implementing it into v67. I'm hoping for an official beta soon.

At least v67 shows that tabs are coming to the consumer version (not just in the debug menu).


----------



## Androo (Mar 26, 2003)

wow fryke! i just noticed your signature! what was system 4 like? I think i used to use 7. What system was out 10 years ago????


----------



## Arden (Mar 26, 2003)

Fryke, you'll never be in that dilemma because absolutely nobody hates the Swiss, the bankers of the world.


> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *wow fryke! i just noticed your signature! what was system 4 like? I think i used to use 7. What system was out 10 years ago???? *


I think he says _Finder_ 4, _System_ 5... but whatever.  10 years ago, was 1993, which means we had our IIsi and it was relatively new, just a couple of years old... I think that was back in the days of System 6.  Good God, that's an ancient system!


----------



## binaryDigit (Mar 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *wow fryke! i just noticed your signature! what was system 4 like? I think i used to use 7. What system was out 10 years ago???? *



I have an original Macintosh in my office that boots System1/Finder1.  It's truely amazing what hasen't changed in all these years.  I also have a Lisa2 (any one with an old Lisa1 sitting around they want to get rid of?) running it's office suite and a MacXL that off hand I can't remember what system/finder version its running.  

Like I said, it really is interesting going back and running the old stuff to see just how right Apple got it even back then.  Other than things like color, a casual user would be hard pressed to notice any massive differences between  S1/F1 and OS8.  Of course it's a double edged sword and others can point to the relative lack of progress since the old days (and hence the emergence of OSX).  Of course it wasn't for lack of trying (Pink anyone?).


----------



## fryke (Mar 26, 2003)

Gotta agree here, binaryDigit... Still, I'm missing many, many things from OS 9 even when going back to System 7.1, which many say was the best System 7 ever, including Mac OS 8 (which was referred to as Mac OS 7.7 in early development builds). Simple things. Things we're missing now in OS X. WindowShade, for example, which was Shareware before System 7.5.


----------



## lurk (Mar 26, 2003)

Back to tricky Safari questions do any of the new betas grok mathml?

-Eric


----------



## Androo (Mar 26, 2003)

good idea!
safari 70 looks like the best one so far (since 62-67 are like betas for the beta 70).
wow system 1?! that must've been slow as hell. And that's bloody slow! (so i'm english now?)


----------



## fryke (Mar 26, 2003)

Actually, System 1 is relatively small in code and - if ported - would actually be _bloody_ fast on today's hardware. But remember that those Macs were running at a bit less than 8 MHz. That's no typo. Btw... v70?!


----------



## Arden (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Actually, System 1 is relatively small in code and - if ported - would actually be _bloody_ fast on today's hardware. But remember that those Macs were running at a bit less than 8 MHz. That's no typo.*


Sure, it had to be small, considering the hardware it was running on.  Yes, it would be fast on today's modern computers, but that's the point--they didn't have our G4's with 3 GB of RAM to run off; they only had 8 Mhz.  So yes, it must have been slow.  (Heh, try running Jaguar on a Lisa!  Last time that happened, I think Homer got involved and probably got jacked in some way. )


----------



## binaryDigit (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Sure, it had to be small, considering the hardware it was running on.  Yes, it would be fast on today's modern computers, but that's the point--they didn't have our G4's with 3 GB of RAM to run off; they only had 8 Mhz.  So yes, it must have been slow.  (Heh, try running Jaguar on a Lisa!  Last time that happened, I think Homer got involved and probably got jacked in some way. ) *



I think Fryke's point was that it's not the software that is slow, it's the hardware, an important distinction.

But beyond that, the important thing to take away is that the performance is relative.  Back then a IIfx was waaaay fast, *running the applications of the time*.  You can't really compare the two era's.  I think that the fact that OSX runs as poorly as it does on my Pismo is pathetic (and ditto for Windoze and Linux).  Todays software is a bloated mess and it needs the dual proccie 1.4ghz processors to be usable.  Now the question to ask yourself is, what additional benefits am I getting from all this extra software.  Well, fact is on my MacPlus, I can do reasonable desktop publishing and spit the results out on a laser printer and get results that are just as good as someone doing it today.  There are obviously a few limitations, mainly in the areas of disk space and memory, but all that speed sure hasen't bought me as much as one would expect from just looking at raw mhz #'s.  (hey that's funny, this is the same mantra Apple is pushing now, see, some things never change


----------



## Androo (Mar 27, 2003)

ooo cool! So if i install system 1  on my computer, it would be pretty good. But what would i use it for? probably for a laugh.
I think you can also install macosx on a macplus, once you put in a new hard drive and processor, you can run it in black and white. Imagine using safari v67 with tabs in it... (trying to get back on the subject...).............
........
Androo?........


----------



## Arden (Mar 27, 2003)

LOL, imagine trying to _run_ Safari on a Mac+...  I don't think it has the required power to even get up to System 8, much less X.2.


----------



## mr. k (Mar 27, 2003)

Don't those things have 16bit processors?  I doubt osx could run on anything less then 32 bit...  It would be kind of interesting though!


----------



## Arden (Mar 27, 2003)

That's one of many reasons.


----------



## Androo (Mar 27, 2003)

wow, there's a tabs preferences in 67, i just looked at it now..... why am i confusing people whenever i mention 70????


----------



## binaryDigit (Mar 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mr. K _
> *Don't those things have 16bit processors?  I doubt osx could run on anything less then 32 bit...  It would be kind of interesting though! *



Well sorta.  They had 32bit registers, but only a 16bit databus and 24bit address bus, so call it what you will.  You can more than doubt that it won't run, I can guarantee it.

BTW, Apple supported the Plus all the way up to 7.5, pretty darn impressive.  Of course running 7.5 on a Plus was basically self inflicted torture.


----------



## Arden (Mar 27, 2003)

And that's much more than anyone can say for Windows!


----------



## Androo (Mar 28, 2003)

wow we've been just babbling on about rumors and tabs for 11 full pages! I really want 70 to come out, it better fix my crashing problem in 67.


----------



## Arden (Mar 28, 2003)

And no one knows why...

I don't even use Safari! 

How many posts do you show per page?  I only have 9 pages, and I have it on the max, 40/page.


----------



## Androo (Mar 28, 2003)

:O!??!?! you don't?


----------



## Androo (Mar 28, 2003)

11 pages, i think it's set on the default or osmethingsa


----------



## Decado (Mar 29, 2003)

I got 22 pages. and i have not changed any settings.


----------



## Arden (Mar 29, 2003)

Heh, if you guys have that many pages on a thread like this, check out how many there are at Herve's Bar & Grill.  It's 134 pages for me!


----------



## Androo (Mar 29, 2003)

Wait, what's Webcore v68????


----------



## Decado (Mar 29, 2003)

Hereve's Bar & Grill got 356 pages for me. Happy Birthday!


----------



## chevy (Mar 29, 2003)

Using Safari v67 to browse macosx.com, I cannot use the button to attach images on post. It was ok with v62.


----------



## Cat (Mar 30, 2003)

Does anyone here have an idea of why backspace won't work in Safari with WebCore/JavaScriptCore 68? It's the only major flaw I've encountered up to now ... pretty nasty when trying to post though ...


----------



## Androo (Mar 30, 2003)

Yeah, i found that too with the attachment thing... in some ways 67 sucks. When I download a quicktime file, and it downloads, safari doesn't auto open it!
At least they made a Home button (go under view, and click home, and the button appears on the toolbar).


----------



## chevy (Mar 30, 2003)

I stopped any autoopen or auto-decompress. I like to do it myself when i want it


----------



## mightyjlr (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *Yeah, i found that too with the attachment thing... in some ways 67 sucks. When I download a quicktime file, and it downloads, safari doesn't auto open it!
> At least they made a Home button (go under view, and click home, and the button appears on the toolbar). *



the "home" button has been there since the first public beta


----------



## NielZ (Mar 31, 2003)

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/03/03/22/2343249.shtml?tid=107

Seems that v67 is the last version we can 'test'...


----------



## fryke (Mar 31, 2003)

Using webcore/javascriptcore v68 with the Safari v67 build isn't exactly recommended. It seems like the v68 webkit (which you can't get open source) has changes in it, as well as the .nibs, which you don't have, Cat...

Hmm... What do you guys think: No official Safari updates until WWDC? Can't be, can it? (addicted to Safari builds...)


----------



## twister (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Hmm... What do you guys think: No official Safari updates until WWDC? Can't be, can it? (addicted to Safari builds...) *



WHAT?!  WHAT?!   

No this can't be.  I want an official download with tabs soon.


----------



## Cat (Mar 31, 2003)

> Using webcore/javascriptcore v68 with the Safari v67 build isn't exactly recommended. It seems like the v68 webkit (which you can't get open source) has changes in it, as well as the .nibs, which you don't have, Cat...



Of course not!!! I was just speaking _hypothetically_!


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 31, 2003)

Wow. I just tried a Woltlab page in *Links* and I can see it perfectly, I can log in perfectly with Links...

And never with Safari. No one I know using Safari manages to use Woltlab BBs .. can't log in, password protected pages simply don't load. 
Besides Links is so much faster.. 

So, Chimera - Links - iCab / Exploiter - Safari here ...


----------



## spitty27 (Apr 1, 2003)

so whats the latest release so far? im on v67. is there a newer version?


----------



## twister (Apr 1, 2003)

v60 is the last OFFICIAL one


----------



## fryke (Apr 1, 2003)

As has been discussed before (this is a long thread), so far v60 is the latest official beta release, v67 is the latest leaked build (and Apple has stopped releasing Safari builds to developers for now), v68 is the current webcore/javascriptcore released to the public. This can be compiled with the Developer Tools following Dave Hyatt's instructions, but using v67 (or earlier) with the newest frameworks is not _that_ good an experience, as some stuff is broken, because you're then missing - among other things - webkit v68.


----------



## spitty27 (Apr 1, 2003)

and where can you follow dave hyatt's instructions?

EDIT: i think i found it. now i dont really want to try putting webcore v68 and javascriptcore on my comp.

http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/WebCore/chapter1.html


----------



## Androo (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by NielZ _
> *http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/03/03/22/2343249.shtml?tid=107
> 
> Seems that v67 is the last version we can 'test'... *


nooooo!!!!! so that's why i haven't heard anything about 68 or 69! How will i ever be able to know what's coming next?
 i'll have to wait till the public betas. I think it's better like this anyway.


----------



## Orbit (Apr 1, 2003)

"i'm a noob"

no no no links pal 

- Jason


----------



## JesseRPI (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wise_Monk _
> *if you want to dl safari67 go to www.apple.com  - Jason*



It don't work. Goes to his homepage where it says to send him a CD and he'll make a copy to send back.


----------



## pds (Apr 2, 2003)

So if it's all beta, and there is no chance in a hot spot that this is a commercial thing - if it costs ten cents, its back to chimino - why not let it be "official". After all, v60 is an update on the original. 

Why not enable the tabs by default and post it on the apple website? By the time Mr J gets to show it in his keynote, it's all old news anyway.


----------



## Arden (Apr 2, 2003)

I don't see why Apple is being so tight-lipped about betas of free software anyway.


----------



## fryke (Apr 3, 2003)

pds: The majority of Mac users does _not_ care about betas that much. They're using the supplied webbrowser, which is Internet Explorer. To them, the official public betas of Safari have much more appeal, and the day when Steve announces that Safari is 1.0 and "available today" and the new default web browser on new Macs, then they'll switch to that. Tabs are going to be new news to them, as they've never even heard of the concept of tabs in a browser. So, in this light, it makes some sense.


----------



## twister (Apr 3, 2003)

If apple doesn't give a new public beta soon i'm going to 'find' a newer version.

Please release one apple. Please


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

Still waiting for official releases later than v60.

v69 was rumoured to have leaked today, but I found v71 instead. it's out there.


----------



## macosXrumors (Apr 9, 2003)

I just posted an article HERE about Safari v71.

A public "beta 2" may be imminent.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate.


----------



## twister (Apr 9, 2003)

Come on Safari tabs.....


----------



## cybergoober (Apr 9, 2003)

Anyone currently using v.71--- Is PithHelmet working with it?

Bah, I'll prolly just take the plunge and check it out anyways.


----------



## Androo (Apr 9, 2003)

I thought apple stopped seeding safari!


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

I have this weird problem with 71. I see every page with this HUGE font size. How can I fix this? I wanted to try if Woltlab structures FINALLY would work but I can't rally stand this font size. It did it earlier as well, with 6x..  

Just to save you from headache: I scaled the screenshot to be only 50 %.

::alien::


----------



## cybergoober (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *I thought apple stopped seeding safari! *



Heh. Guess not. Or maybe 71 is a hoax/malicious file  . 

Maybe I'll wait... naaah! 
/jumps head-first


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

apple - (minus) does not fix that. it stays on that size.


----------



## cybergoober (Apr 9, 2003)

Have you tried changing the font size in the prefs? 
Safari->Preferences->Appearance


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

no effect. texts look still the same.

from the licence: 

*SAFARI 2.0 PUBLIC BETA* 

so, Steve will pull out this rabbit from his hat in WWDC?


----------



## macosXrumors (Apr 9, 2003)

I guess it will be released before WWDC (the beta 2). We can even expect it in a few days.


----------



## cybergoober (Apr 9, 2003)

Have you tried pulling the Safari folder out of ~/Library? Or pulling out your com.apple.Safari.plist file? Not necessarily trashing them, but just pulling them out of their default locations so Safari is forced to create new ones.

My v.71 looks *nothing* like that.


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

i deleted safari folder, and com.apple.safari.plist, now it works cool. and i finally can load even woltlab structured pages ... ::love::


----------



## hulkaros (Apr 9, 2003)

SO DAMN COOL!

Way to go! Thanx! ::love::


----------



## Androo (Apr 9, 2003)

hehehe, safari v71 downloading right now as we speak on that downloading program. I'll probably just test it out and then trash it.


----------



## macosXrumors (Apr 9, 2003)

I've just updated my article about safari v71.

--_[don't give links to get it. Giag.]_

sorry...
I've removed the link to the french site from my page too.


----------



## Jason (Apr 9, 2003)

so they skipped over the vaunted 69 eh? for shame


----------



## macosXrumors (Apr 9, 2003)

v69 exists too...


----------



## Jason (Apr 9, 2003)

well shit, i missed it!

[_watch what you say... G._]

_im watching it, its casual and its unoffensive  -J_

[_yea, but i just wanted to edit you. -G._]

_maybe later honey, i'm building a website right now  -J_


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

Jason, you complain you have v71 but not v69? ROFTL ...


----------



## Jason (Apr 9, 2003)

hey some numbers hold more importance than others, what can i say


----------



## Stridder44 (Apr 9, 2003)

I still feel compelled to wait for an official release...v60 works fine for me, no complaints here. (Dont get me wrong, Im not saying other unreleased versions arn't good)


----------



## wtmcgee (Apr 9, 2003)

im in the same boat... im trying to hold on till the next official one... but the more i hear about each release the more i would like to "stumble" across one .

i think soon we'll see at least one more public beta before the final.


----------



## fryke (Apr 10, 2003)

It's a great, great build. Here's to browser wars. 

This is gonna be great... Safari Beta 2, OmniWeb 4.5sp's, Mozilla 1.4, Camino 0.8... Lookin' forward, really


----------



## hulkaros (Apr 10, 2003)

...I REALLY enjoy the last version of Safari aka Safari v71  

Thank you, someone!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 10, 2003)

> This is gonna be great... Safari Beta 2, OmniWeb 4.5sp's, Mozilla 1.4, Camino 0.8... Lookin' forward, really



Don't forget Phoenix, which will supplant Moz 1.4, and maybe even IE 6...


----------



## gwynarion (Apr 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *Don't forget Phoenix, which will supplant Moz 1.4, and maybe even IE 6... *


Unless I'm much mistaken Phoenix is a Win and Linux browser.  Has this changed?  I thought we were talking about OS X [implied] browser wars?


----------



## fryke (Apr 10, 2003)

There's a version for Mac OS X someone has compiled. It looks okay - but pretty much like the Windows version.


----------



## pds (Apr 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Stridder44 _
> *I still feel compelled to wait for an official release...v60 works fine for me, no complaints here. (Dont get me wrong, Im not saying other unreleased versions arn't good) *



O 
me too, p2p is just not my cup of tea.  but I would reaaally like to see the update

oh, by the way steve... what are you gonna do about my battery???

::evil::


----------



## Paul C (Apr 10, 2003)

Man thats soooooooo much better!!!!!!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 10, 2003)

I guess everybody missed the memo on Mozilla/Phoenix...

Mozilla Roadmap 

Basically, the large app called "Mozilla", which is the browser, email client, composer, address book , and IRC chat client, will be abandoned after the 1.4 release. At that time, Mozilla will use Phoenix as it's base, focusing on a smaller and faster client.

This means that the new "Mozilla", (which again, is based on Phoenix), will be maintained and updated for all major platforms, OS X included. You will see milestones and nightlies, just like you see now for Mozilla (currently at 1.4). Currently, Phoenix for OS X is just a tech demo by Kevin Gerich, who ported it over in his spare time.

Whew... Does that make sense to everyone?


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 10, 2003)

Phoenix on windows feels / looks (i've been said so, i don0t use windows) like the early stages of chimera. 
i don't want to have 10 browsers. only some that work. camino works, safari latest works (untill this i didn't really like it), icab and links are ok for testing and alternation purposes, and exploiter for the sites that don't want to work in mozilla-family browsers or links. i have tried the other mac browsers too, but elimintaed all of them as useless.


----------



## Androo (Apr 13, 2003)

So then 72 isn't coming for a while? Or at all?


----------



## fryke (Apr 13, 2003)

doesn't seem like. but then again, v71 feels safe. if nothing groundbreakingly new is in v72, i dunno why bother...


----------



## Androo (Apr 13, 2003)

hey! Apple gives safari to "developers". To sign up for the developer thingy (and maybe get safari 71) go here:
http://connect.apple.com/


----------



## fryke (Apr 13, 2003)

Not unless you are a paying developer (Select or Premier ADC membership). And even those have not been seeded with the latest Safari betas, as could be read all over the web.


----------



## toast (Apr 13, 2003)

Safari 71 won't remember Keychains... darn.


----------



## Androo (Apr 13, 2003)

lol, so what? Just click a little button.. it takes less than a second.


----------



## mr. k (Apr 13, 2003)

_sorry... no asking in public  - Jason _


----------



## fryke (Apr 14, 2003)

Closing the thread because of Beta 2 (v73) release. I'm sure there'll be another thread like this soon after v73+ has leaked. ;-)


----------

