# A little word about profanity



## twyg (Mar 13, 2002)

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to address the use of profanity on the boards. I have noticed a slight increase in the use of profanity over the course of my volunteer status here. So...

Remember that these boards are to be considered "professional" and since in most offices, schools, religious institutions, etc. we don't hear a whole bunch of swearing I would ask that we bring it to a halt. 

By all means, first amendment ho! Say what is on your mind, and express yourself! However, be considerate of those who would rather not come to a board full of cusses. 

Many of you have noticed that your four letter cuss words have suddenly changed from duck to d**k overnight. This isn't some script that is run, that's me coming in and cleaning up...

So, I trust we can all be cool and stop with the swearing. 

P.S. I don't like to repeat myself. This isn't a joke.


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## simX (Mar 13, 2002)

Sorry about that twyg.  I'll be more careful in the future.


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## satanicpoptart (Mar 14, 2002)

censorship is un-american, if people dont want to see then they should just advert there eyes, what i have to say should'nt be bleeped.  its my words they should'nt be changed because a minority of people dont apreciate it.  freedom of speach.


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## GadgetLover (Mar 14, 2002)

I agree and will censor myself but ...

I do find it troubling that no one discusses the "WHERE CAN I PIRATE THIS ILLEGAL PIECE OF SOFTWARE" threads but profanity is taboo??  I find threads that talk about TRUE 'hacking' or how to circumvent copyright law to be just as un "professional" as people saying ahh sh**t.

As such, I am confused.


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## genghiscohen (Mar 14, 2002)

How about freedom of learning proper grammar & spelling?


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## satanicpoptart (Mar 14, 2002)

im in 5th grade dude, excuse my limited abilities


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## rinse (Mar 14, 2002)

in 5th grade and born in 1980? you do have limited abilities.


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## RyanLang (Mar 14, 2002)

And a big you to everyone in this forum! weee I love you guys though


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## satanicpoptart (Mar 14, 2002)

(to rinse) do u really think i would put my real birth date on the sign up?


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## rinse (Mar 14, 2002)

your not really from kansas anymore, either, are you?


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## twyg (Mar 14, 2002)

Well well well, another blind patriot... They're just poppin' outta the wood work lately... I'll table that for another discussion though. 

so... satanic pop tart. What part of the agreement that you made wasn't clear enough for you? This is exactly what you saw when you came into the boards. (As did everyone for that matter.)



> MacOSX.com Rules
> Registration to this forum is free! *We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below.* If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page. Note: By pressing the button you declare that you are over the age of 13. If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form.
> 
> Although the administrators and moderators of MacOSX.com will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of MacOSX.com or Jelsoft Enterprises Limited (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
> ...



Case closed. You all agreed to the rules. Don't like them? Then why did you join? And why do you come here? I don't like reading about a fix to a problem I have just to see about how "This F***ING progam is bullsh**T!"

Why did you just waste my time? 

Some of us come here to get things done for the community, not to show our ability to use foul language.

Unlike other forums we actually follow the rules as opposed to simply stating them for "legal reasons".

I am a huge advocate for free speech. It disgusts me that governments feel that they can dicate their rules onto someone else. (Taliban) So you say, "well Twyg, you're just a big f**king hypocrite then, HA! I win!"

Try again  You came here voluntarily to say what you want to say _with a very lax set of rules_, the chinese government doesn't give you a choice as to where you can go to say what you want to say. You simply can't say it anywhere in china. 

So I agree, I'll turn my head to vulgarity, but only on another board that has no rule on vulgar language. On these boards that's a simple rule which has been requested.

I won't repeat myself again. Play by the rules. 
This is your last warning. 

Oh, and keep trolling around, it got ManicDVLN real far.


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## twyg (Mar 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GadgetLover _
> *I agree and will censor myself but ...
> 
> I do find it troubling that no one discusses the "WHERE CAN I PIRATE THIS ILLEGAL PIECE OF SOFTWARE" threads but profanity is taboo??  I find threads that talk about TRUE 'hacking' or how to circumvent copyright law to be just as un "professional" as people saying ahh sh**t.
> ...



I would tend to agree, but that's something you need to talk to Admin about.


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## RyanLang (Mar 14, 2002)

twyg, calm down, its just profanity, combinations of letters that people are offended by only because other humans told them they should be offended by them. If i say F*** now means happy super duper fun slide, who's to say it does or doesn't? When that word was made, it was made by a human being just like you or me, not some god-like word creator thing. If people don't like profanity and they are over 13, they shouldn't be here,  because its part of our world, and people are going to use it no matter what. If you don't like all of us for swearing, then you should just have a kiddie mac os x forum on a different page and force people under 13 to go to that one. Most of us are adults here, and profanity is only a problem with you so far. Nobody else posts problems about it, do they?


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## RyanLang (Mar 14, 2002)

Ok, I am starting to get a little angry here.  If we have to stop swearing then user MDLarson has to get rid of the part in his avitar that has the fish with the word JESUS in it. That offends me big time because well, I am not in the mood to see f'n jesus being flashed in my face everytime I read things in this great forum.  Gahhhh, what does that gif animation mean? I like apple so I have to like stupid jesus? OYYYYY ANNOYED! and btw F*CK JESUS <---- there, now that seems fair when you put the two together, doesn't it?


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## googolplex (Mar 14, 2002)

I'd have to aggree. This is a forum for everyone. I dont want to show my grandmother something on here that says how to fix something on her mac and then see somebody swearing about their problems. I aggree the profanity isn't really a big deal when you look at it as just words, but thats not the way society is.

Everyone aggreed to not swear on here so just don't. And also I beleive that the moderators and admin have cut everybody a lot of slack, and are willing to make exceptions (notice the cuss thread). If you can't form a sentence with out swearing then I suggest you go back to grade 1.

I'm not saying I'm perfect. I as guilty as everyone else, when talking to a person I'll swear, but I dont think that this is the place. You have to take into consideration your audience. And in this case your audience is anybody. Would you get up in front of a large audience of unknown people and start swearing after you had been told NOT too. I don't think so.

Oh and about censorship being unamerican. Give me a (I'd insert something here in real life, but i'm being considerate and I wont) break. I guess you guys are the only civilized nation out there too. Did you know that we only got running water last year? We all know that the United States is the most free and peaceful and best place anywhere. And anyone outside of the US is wrong. Its not unamerican for god sakes. Your government censors things all the time. So don't go mindlessly posting things like that. 

I dont mean to pick A fight, I like americans and it is a great country, but people who are over patriotic and ignorant piss me off...

Too bad we can only censor swearing and not ignorance...


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## RyanLang (Mar 14, 2002)

saying you should go back to 1st grade because you can't form a sentence without using a swear? Wow, I must have been sick that day, I don't remember that lesson


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## googolplex (Mar 14, 2002)

Good you can go back into elemetry school as well to learn the difference between figurative and literal language .


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## jeb1138 (Mar 15, 2002)

Here's my vote for keeping these forums a verbally clean place, like we agreed to do when we registered.  I enjoy these forums appreciate the no-profanity rule and the admins' efforts to keep the site clean - thanks guys.


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## thisbechuck (Mar 15, 2002)

Here are my thoughts on the topic: twyg is correct in doing what he is doing. after all, this is a membership required forum. Being a moderator, twyg has the capability to so whatever he thinks is necessary. As googolplex said, they cut us a lot of slack already. satanic pop tart, if you want to look at whoever doesn't allow all out swearing (most schools, public gathering locations, private property, etc) then a whole lot of people are "Un American." Again, as i said, twyg has a lot more power than he's using, so lets just be thankful he isn't terminating people's memberships for saying "damn" or something like that.


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## thisbechuck (Mar 15, 2002)

lol, i was just reading over my post and thinking about how funny it looked with my avatar... no offense meant by it... it's explained that i'm high on mac's... not other stuff


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## ksv (Mar 16, 2002)

Faen i hælvete ta, let gammel-erik rule the world!


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## uoba (Mar 17, 2002)

Not everyone here hails from the USA, don't ya know! 

Seriously, why stand the freedom-of-speech righteous ground to defend your swearing!? Surely you type swear words for the same reason you speak them; it's simply the quickest and most direct way for you to communicate your disatisfaction, without resorting or having to think of all those clever complicated words we learnt.

Don't worry, I am as probably guilty as the rest of you, but I ain't making a petty stand, particularly against a sincere request from the admin -- which by the way, was communicated in the most polite manner.

There's no need to be a rebel without a clause! Clean up your messages!


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## theed (Mar 18, 2002)

The rules are concise, and there could be some debate over what words constitute vulgarity, I think we all draw the line in pretty much the same place; so no vulgarity.

As for the argument of it being un-american or less than free, that's utter oxen fecal matter.  The constitution, and other free country statements of purpose, allow freedom of expression, in-so-much as you are allowed to have and to convey any opinion without federal persecution.  This does not limit private clubs, or local governments from making rules beyond this.  Furthermore, it does not mean that you get to use any word you want, or do anything that you want, only that you are allowed to express any point of view.  I can't state my objection to the murder-is-bad stance of the government by killing people!  Although I could, if I had such an opinion, state it.  

Don't confuse freedom and anarchy.  Trying to attach vulgarity to freedom-of-speech taints the noble gesture of that freedom.


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## googolplex (Mar 18, 2002)

Very well said.


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## satanicpoptart (Mar 18, 2002)

im not trying to express ingnorence or any other bull like that.  im just saying that every human should be able to express there mind and opion in the way that they see fit, adding **** to words isnt a big deal its just really anoying,  i feel that i have to make less drastic statements because others might be offended, well maybe they should just not read my statements, the world should censor itself, not have a hidden administrator make decisions on what is apropriate.  dont like cuss words, dont look.  dont like jesus dont be christian.  dont like violence on tv, dont watch tv.  then maybe all of us who like to hear what ppl REALLY  have to say can live alittle better.


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## ScottW (Mar 18, 2002)

First and foremost, if you don't like this place, then leave. No one forces you to come here, no ones makes you read the threads.

I have a few things... first, this place needs to be clean. I will always allow some "rudeness" but at the same time, if you cross the line, your out of here. You should treat everyone on the board like you would threat anyone else and you should speak as you would speak anywhere else, unless that is your just a sailor, and well, we do forgive you.

Now, for the "law violation" issues. First, I honestly think you should be allowed to discuss issues. If you want to say, "Yes, I pirate Adobe Photoshop" in a public forum, that is simply your stupidity. But, if you start talking about blowing up world trade centers and how to build bombs, then we might put a stop to such nonsense.

Admin


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## googolplex (Mar 18, 2002)

Admin, could you just clarify what is acceptable.

Is common place 'light' profanity not tolerated such as (excuse me as I say something that maybe i shouldn't but i'm just demonstrating.):

'what the hell' or 'that kicks ass' or even an abreviation like 'wtf'.

or what about starring out swearing like s**t. Is that acceptable? I'm not saying that I will try and do that, just in case I happen to say something like that


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## ScottW (Mar 18, 2002)

10 years ago when I took classes to get my amatuer radio license, they said that no profanity was allowed over the airwaves. A buddy of mine (we were 17 at the time) asked the teacher if saying things like, "Shit, that is a big tornado" was against the rules, "slip of the tongue".

For some reason, at the age of 17, that was a big deal.

Anyhow, at 27, I wouldn't even consider such things a big deal... I would just accept and move forward.

Admin


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## googolplex (Mar 18, 2002)

alright i'm just making sure you wont ban someone (me ) for saying something like. "What the hell is that?"

You just seem to be cracking down on it and I have to make sure that I'm awake when i post


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## jeb1138 (Mar 19, 2002)

"Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly." - Spencer W. Kimball
Here's what I have to say about this:
The use of profanity is an effort to thrust one's angst, anger or incredulity on another person.  It is an attack, in the same sense and motivated by the same intent as physical violence, but it is a mental attack and leaves no visible wounds.  Like physical violence, the degree of malevolence with which one uses profanity may be as serious as physical punches or as indiscreet as intimidating gestures or actions.  And the damage and hurt are no less real for profanity than they are for violence.  The extent of the hurt is impossible to determine because people can become so calloused to vulgar language that what eventually comes to feel like a nudge on the shoulder to some is a slap on the face to those who have not become so desensitized.  Is, then, desensitization to foul language a virtue?  Is it the solution?  No, because it would never last -- desensitization defeats the purpose of the profaner.  No one who uses vulgar language wishes for an audience that "doesn't care."  Crude speech is an attempt by the author to expose to his recipient's mind whatever ugly, revolting or shocking images he can in his feebleness afford.  If society, which gives meaning to words, or a select group of individuals begin to redefine or tolerate profane words so that they no longer have such a strong impact the profaners will only augment their putrid vocabulary.  One need not venture further than a local high school to witness this dynamic succession.
Insensitivity to profanity isn't the ability of a higher intellect to separate inkblots from emotions.  Insensitivity to profanity occurs only when one stops caring about those things being profaned by the vulgar use of the words that represent them and about the people perpetrating the vulgar language.  Why is "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" such an important mandate in the Judeo-Christian faiths?  It is at least in part because in order to be able to profane their Creator's name they cannot hold the respect and love that such a one surely deserves, and in the act of profaning they further distance themselves from him.  Why do so many vulgar words stem from the most sacred or the most revolting aspects of life?  Because those things evoke the most emotion.  It is not the weakness of the offended listener to be upset by the images and feelings such slander produces.  It is the weakness of the profaner to be so far detached emotionally from these things that they no longer have any impact upon him.  Control over one's emotions produces freedom, suppression of one's emotions makes life meaningless.
And if we do not wish to require the extermination of emotion -- what then should we do about those who recklessly endeavor to attack our sensitivities because they can find no better way to express themselves?  No civilized society permits their citizens to recklessly employ physical violence to communicate their emotions.  Why then should any society tolerate similarly violent mental abuse?  The United States of America does not.  As outlined by law and demonstrated in several US Supreme Court cases, "the First and Fourteenth Amendments have never been thought to give absolute protection to every individual to speak whenever or wherever he pleases, or to use any form of address in any circumstances that he chooses." (John Marshall Harlan, US Supreme Court Justice, "Cohen v. California")  The US Constitution provides no protection to several uses of speech, including libel (slander), "fighting words" and obscenities.  In 1978, for example, the US Supreme Court upheld the Federal Communications Commission (a government agency) in "FCC v. Pacifica Foundation" in its right to censor programs like one radio broadcast entitled "Filthy Words".  In response to the suggestion that those offended by foul language should remove themselves from the situation, Justice John Paul Stevens, joined by Justice Rehnquist and Chief Justice Burger, explained:  "To say that one may avoid further offense by turning off the radio when he hears indecent language is like saying that the remedy for an assault is to run away after the first blow."  If the Constitution provides for government agencies to censor the inappropriate and aggressive use of language on public radio waves, how much more appropriate is it that we be allowed to do even more in a private institution?  Justices Powell and Blackman, concurring with the Court's decision, also said:  "the language employed [was], to most people, vulgar and offensive. It was chosen specifically for this quality, and it was repeated over and over as a sort of verbal shock treatment."
I didn't come here for shock treatment (though after seeing the length of this post some of you might think that's what I need...  ) and I didn't come here to be assaulted by the careless, malevolent or calloused minds of those employing a putrid and a lazy vocabulary. Fortunately for me, the forum conditions we all agreed to say the same thing.


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## twyg (Mar 19, 2002)

*twyg makes a mental note to self*

"When applicable quotes and exceedingly well written answers to foolish posts is needed, refer to Page 1 of jeb1138's 'Organized arguments for a random world'"

*Tertiary note*

"When it becomes apparent that a little more 'umph' is needed, refer to Page 1 of Admin's 'Making your point good 'n solid'"

I thank those of you for the support that you have lent. It makes the board a better place.


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## uoba (Mar 19, 2002)

Anyone got any Eddy Murphy videos on file?


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## jeb1138 (Mar 19, 2002)




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## earector (Mar 19, 2002)

Well said, Gadget.



> _Originally posted by GadgetLover _
> *I agree and will censor myself but ...
> 
> I do find it troubling that no one discusses the "WHERE CAN I PIRATE THIS ILLEGAL PIECE OF SOFTWARE" threads but profanity is taboo??  I find threads that talk about TRUE 'hacking' or how to circumvent copyright law to be just as un "professional" as people saying ahh sh**t.
> ...


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## uoba (Mar 20, 2002)

Flamengista!???


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## jeb1138 (Mar 20, 2002)

Eu teria
Um desgosto profundo,
Se  faltasse
O Flamengo no mundo,
Ele vibra,
Ele é fibra
Muita libra já pesou
Flamengo até morrer
Eu sou.
   

E você?


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## Aqualung (Mar 21, 2002)

What the hell?  I don't need some professional dick telling me how to post!  If you don't want swearing then write a script to clean it up.  Otherwise, go fu[k yourself.  I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to some prudish, "family values" man pimping his morality on me.  Sometimes profanity is needed, particularly by those who lack the writing ability to communicate their thoughts emphatically.  If you don't like it then don't read it, shield your virgin eyes and leave me the fu[k alone!

And if you are concerned about school kids seeing words like "fu[k", "sh!t", or "[unt", then step back into reality.  They hear far worse on the playground for sure.

PS:  This is my first post containing ANY profanity at all here at these fora.  It's sorta like flag burning laws....normally I don't go around desecrating my country's flag, but when right wing whackos begin sicking the jack-booted thugs on flag burners, the first thing I want to do is torch a flag.  Get my drift?  This is America, and FREEDOM is something to be cherished.


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## uoba (Mar 21, 2002)

Let's ignore the above post and let admin deal with it!!  

Hey Jeb!!!

I'm an adopted Flamengista (my fiancee is a Carioca, but supports Botafogo , here mother supports Vasco , but her two brothers took me aside and kindly pursuaded me to support Flamengo !!)

I went to watch Vasco at the Maracana, but can't wait to go and see Flamengo!!)

... By the way, I'm an eternal Scouser (Liverpool!!!!)


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## RacerX (Mar 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Aqualung _
> * They hear far worse on the playground for sure.*



And they feel the need to use it because if peer pressure. So why don't we try using the same idea to stop it. If everyone starts acting like responsible, intelligent adults, then these poor language impaired children (of all ages it would seem  ) would start to feel the need to learn new forms of expressing themselves.

Not that I mine really, in debates in this forum, when a person starts to lose their cool enough to lower themselves to that type of language... they are pretty much on the ropes anyway. So yes, it helps to see when an argument is almost won.

I would note that this is really not a new thing, and you agreed to the rules of this forum when you accepted membership. So if you wish to continue your protest, please don't be surprised if you end up joining our friend LTM as a voiceless viewer.


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## dePoPo (Mar 21, 2002)

i have visited many boards, i have run many boards, but nowhere, Nowhere there was so much profanity and swearing as on de online TFC and CS game servers we run.  until...  we started banning each and every puberal kid that was unable to control himself, or other individuals that thought swearing had anything to do with freedom of speach. 

many forum threads, both here and on countless other boards have been spent on the subject. 

the bottom line is, both on the gaming servers and here on the board, you (we) are using a free service that is provided bound within certain rules. Like there are traffic rules, and rules on exactly how to withdraw cash from a bank.  

SO, the rules imposed on this board have nothing to do with freedom, and all i can say is; go for it admin & moderators, because strength, and strenght only, can garantuee true freedom.
Both in the so called real world, and the virtual worlds we created for ourselfs.  

in this case, freedom from the foul mouthed people wo think they actualy have a defendeble "right cause", 

the good news is, eventualy they grow up.


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## uoba (Mar 21, 2002)

be te last word on this plleeeassseee!

It seems to sum up 90% of peoples views here.


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## ScottW (Mar 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Aqualung _
> *PS:  This is my first post containing ANY profanity at all here at these fora.  It's sorta like flag burning laws....normally I don't go around desecrating my country's flag, but when right wing whackos begin sicking the jack-booted thugs on flag burners, the first thing I want to do is torch a flag.  Get my drift?  This is America, and FREEDOM is something to be cherished. *



Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose... see ya!

Admin


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## uoba (Mar 22, 2002)

the last time I looked out of the window, it was Ealing in London UK.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2002)

what suprises me is that this thread is still active 
I thought we all agreed to grow up a little (well in terms of profanity anyway  )


Admiral


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## googolplex (Mar 22, 2002)

We did all aggree, but then someone keeps popping up who wants to challange the rules again.


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## uoba (Mar 22, 2002)

Can we shut this thread down! Can we sort of "seek closer" 

I suppose the fact that I keep posting prolongs the agony


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## vic (Mar 22, 2002)

profanity is bad


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