# Web Design Pricing



## icemanjc (Oct 22, 2009)

Just wondering how everybody prices making web designs for people and what elements change the pricing.


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## #1 Rhapsody (Oct 22, 2009)

I would like to know as well.  Once I was about to start a similar business.


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## CharlieJ (Oct 27, 2009)

I charge
£100* for a Single Page Site
£20* per extra page

~£5000 CMS/CRM

*Roughly


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## Giaguara (Oct 28, 2009)

And of course you youngster report your 'free'lance income to the tax office unlike the dozen of web designers in a dozen (at least here there are still 15-16 in a dozen so some of them do)


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2009)

CharlieJ said:


> I charge
> £100* for a Single Page Site
> £20* per extra page
> 
> ...



No offense, but this is a horrible way to price web site design.

Your current pricing scheme means that I would pay the same amount to you whether I had a single-page website with a single word on the page, or a single page with a Flash movie, elaborate graphics, and complicated JavaScripts.

The short and skinny of it is that you cannot quote someone a flat price for any kind of web site.  You need to have a consultation with the client to find out exactly what it is they want, then price accordingly after that -- signing a contract with a description of the work to be performed for both parties' safety.

The only way you can charge a flat rate per page is if you have pre-made templates of websites with drag-and-drop graphics and text and force your client to choose a template without modification.

What elements go into a web site design?  Here are some examples that you may want to consider in pricing a site for someone:
- Copywriting (are you going to be coming up with the verbage, or will it be provided to you?  Coming up with effective copy and headlines and titles for a site is a lot harder than you think -- and if you can easily come up with verbage for a site, then your verbage sucks, quite frankly.  Copywriting isn't about shooting some sentences off the top of your head... it involves a ton of research to write effective copy.)
- Images (simple graphics, logos, etc., or more complex "sliding" menus, effects and transitions?  Do you need to create the images from scratch, use stock photography, or will the client provide all the images?) 
- Coding (any php login scripts or fancy JavaScripts required?  Shopping carts?  Login tracking?  Database/mySQL connectivity?)
- SEO (will you be involved in getting the page into search engine rankings?)
- Validation (is it important that your HTML/XHTML/CSS markup validate 100%?)

Once you get through those things with the client, you need to decide whether you're going to charge the same hourly fee for those things, or have different tiers of pricing (I charge much more for coding than I do for copywriting, for obvious reasons).  You also need to decide about how you'll charge for revisions to the site -- I can guarantee that the first iteration of design you present to the client will be unacceptable and they'll want to make changes.  How many changes will you let them make before you charge them for further changes?

I typically charge by the hour, similar to below:
1) Copywriting: $50 USD/hour
2) Image creation: $75 USD/hour
3) Page creation (HTML/CSS): $75 USD/hour
4) php/JavaScript/Ruby/Perl coding: $100 USD/hour
5) Two free rounds of minor revisions (image placement, text changes), then after that, the hourly fees above go into effect for any further revisions.

All of that goes into the contract, by the way.

After all is said and done, you need to decide on who actually "owns" the site... typically, when I design a site, the client will end up owning the copy, images and site itself while I retain ownership of any php/JavaScript code I wrote (so they can't rip off the code and use it on other sites with other designers).

Again, this is explicitly spelled out in the contract.

So... the site is designed, we know who "owns" it, and now it's time to bring it online.  Are you responsible for finding hosting for them?  Are you responsible for paying for it?  Are you responsible for actually uploading the site to said hosting company?  Will you be the one ensuring that the site works correctly with the hosting company of choice?

In the contract, of course.

You really need to sit down and sketch out what, exactly, goes into a website design, otherwise you're going to run into one of the following problems very quickly, guaranteed:
- The client is unhappy with the final product.
- The client wants to keep making changes, over and over, even after the site has gone "live."  They expect you to do this for free, for some reason.
- The client thinks they own 100% of the site when they don't.
- The client "pulls the plug" halfway through development and doesn't want to pay for work already done (hint: contract terms, contract terms, contract terms!).
- You end up doing much more work than you thought and you are not fairly compensated because you didn't take the time to accurately quote the job.

I can guarantee you that the majority of the time you spend designing the site will not be spent actually designing the site.  If you spend more time actually making the site than you do researching and quoting the site and talking with the client and getting things hammered out, then in the words of the venerable LOLcats, "Yor doin it wrong."

Here is a sample contract (more can be found with a super-simple Google search for "web design contract template"):

http://www.reencoded.com/2009/03/20/creating-a-web-design-contract/

It covers the basics and can be modified to fit your needs (like different hourly rates for different design tasks, etc.).

*Do not commence or agree to a site design with anyone (not even your mother) without a signed and dated contract that both parties agree to.  Not even if it's for a friend.  Not even as a "favor" to someone.  Not even if you agree to do the site for free -- you still need to agree on the "terms" of how, when and what you're actually going to be doing for them.*

Here is one of, in my opinion, the best contract templates available for free:

http://24ways.org/2008/contract-killer


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## CharlieJ (Oct 28, 2009)

Yeah, I did say roughly. Yeah obviously, more complex sites will cost more - That price is for a basic site.

Charlie


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2009)

CharlieJ said:


> Yeah, I did say roughly. Yeah obviously, more complex sites will cost more - That price is for a basic site.
> 
> Charlie



Well, that was part of my point -- your idea of "complex" and your client's idea of "complex" may differ greatly, plus a lot of clients have no clue how websites "work" or are designed.  A lot of people don't understand that getting dynamic content (logins, database connectivity, etc.) is a hell of a lot more complicated than static designs.

I guess what I'd like for you to take away from this is that there is much research to be done up front with the client in order to set a price that is fair to you and to the client.  I know from my experience initially starting off that I severely undervalued my time and ended up doing insane amounts of work for a price that was not worth it at all to me.  I fell into that trap by quoting fixed prices rather than hourly rates.  And then letting the client make an infinite amount of changes without spelling out exactly how the payments would work up front.

Just don't wanna see that happen to a fellow macosx-er.  Be smart; don't take the up-front research, contract writing, requirements outlining and bidding too lightly, as it's probably the most important part of the whole process.


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## simbalala (Oct 28, 2009)

ElDiabloConCaca said:


> I know from my experience initially starting off that I severely undervalued my time and ended up doing insane amounts of work for a price that was not worth it at all to me.  I fell into that trap by quoting fixed prices rather than hourly rates.  And then letting the client make an infinite amount of changes without spelling out exactly how the payments would work up front.



And so it has always been. Long before the interweb became all the rage exactly the same issues came up in design for print and they still exist. Insane amounts of time can be spent for little or no financial reward if one is not careful and tough.

As I see it the problem with web design is that so many people claim they can do it and the entry level cost for any aspiring web business is so low. There will always be fools low balling prices and there's nothing that can be done about it. There will also be a lot of fools delivering really crappy work.

Just go to craigslist and look at the number of people offering web design services, that's the competition for little upstarts.

As a side note I was scanning the local craigslist section and I noticed someone offering web design services and on  their site the english was very good but just a tiny bit off. So I did a whois on the domain name and the company is in Poland. So the competition and pricing is downright insane.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2009)

A number of those "low-ballers" use template-driven design as well.

I am under the firm belief that you really do get what you pay for.

If a client tries to tell you that XYZ company can do it for half the price, then my reply is always, "You get what you pay for."  One of the best skills a designer can have is the skill of saying, "no."  If a client is unwilling to pay what you're asking, then you're better off not doing work for that client.


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