# PowerBook G5s



## Randman (Feb 24, 2004)

> February 24 - 00:53 EST** By Larry Angell - All of the key components for Apple to produce a PowerBook G5 appear to be ready, and Mac users should expect to see the new laptop no later than this summer, Peter Glaskowsky, analyst with Instat/MDR and editor of the Microprocessor Report, told MacMinute. He noted that the IBM PowerPC 970FXwhich is used in the Xserve G5offers basic power-consumption features needed for a portable machine. Glaskowsky explained that the 970FX also has PowerTune, IBM's version of the voltage and frequency scaling technology used on x86 laptop processors. "With all this new technology, a PowerBook G5 should be much faster and last about as long as a PowerBook G4 in average usage," he said.



More

http://www.macminute.com/2004/02/24/powerbookg5


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

I can't imagine this. I mean, Motorola recently presented some new processors which were supposed to go up to 1.4Ghz at a very low energy consumption. There is not much time left till summer so I can't imagine they would drop a faster G4 powerbook and deliver the first G5 powerbook in summer. Wouldn't it make more sense to announce the faster G4s first and after some time (end of this year) deliver the G5 books?

On the other hand, they could use those new G4s in the ibooks... Hmmm, very complicated


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## diablojota (Feb 24, 2004)

Actually, this makes perfect sense.  The use the new G4 processor from Motorolla in the iBook line, and upgrade the PowerBook line to use the new G5.  However, I would say that Apple is going to use the G4 update in the Powerbook first, offer slightly faster iBooks, test the G5 in the PowerBook, and then by June/July deliver the G5 powerbook after it is ready.  I feel that after the events that occured with the Albook quality control issues, Apple is going to apply more pressure to the manufacturer to produce a better run with fewer machines that need warranty.  This was a huge factor to the reason why Apple didn't make more profit.


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## fryke (Feb 24, 2004)

apple needs to bring the powerbooks up to par. if they go 1.5 ghz g4, professional users won't be so happy, because at about the same time, a 2 ghz g5 will be the low end powermac... you'll want some power in the powerbook. the article is right about that the 970fx is ready for powerbooks, albeit at lower clock speeds than for the towers. still: a 1.6 ghz g5 powerbook is certainly a _lot_ more desirable than a 1.5 ghz g4 powerbook.

the updated g4s can not only be used for the ibooks, but also for the emacs. a distinction between an emac g4 and an imac g5 would also help apple sell more imacs (even to schools).

the sad thing is: if apple announces another round of g4 powerbooks in march, april or may, this probably would mean that a powerbook g5 would only appear in autumn. and many current powerbook users would skip the 'last pb g4' in wait for the g5.


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## powermac (Feb 24, 2004)

I am not sure of  much, I believe that Apple would want to boast about being the first company to bring 64 bit processing to a portable. Either way they have to upgrade the PowerBook line soon. Perhaps they will offer higher model(s) with a G5 while keeping others at G4 (maybe not a great idea). Personality, I am waiting for a possible G5 PowerBook to purchase buy next fall.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

same here, powermac. Am waiting for the G5 powerbook and catch it. But there are some 64bit portables out. I read some reports about AMDs hammer (or so) in a laptop..
However, it's really time for a G5 now since the ibooks are on G4 as well.


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## diablojota (Feb 24, 2004)

powermac said:
			
		

> I am not sure of  much, I believe that Apple would want to boast about being the first company to bring 64 bit processing to a portable.



Well, they can't boast about having the first 64-bit laptop.  AMD is already cramming these things into several laptops.
http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_M6807

I mean, eMachines already has a unit available, and if I remember correctly, Dell, HP, and several others do too.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

Dell is not going AMD. So, I would be surprised if there would be a Dell 64bit unless Intel starts with mobile 64bit..


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## diablojota (Feb 24, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Dell is not going AMD. So, I would be surprised if there would be a Dell 64bit unless Intel starts with mobile 64bit..



Sorry, I meant Gateway.  You are absolutely correct regarding Dell.


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## kalantna (Feb 24, 2004)

They better take care of the heat issue. When my 800 mhz TiBook heats up I could roast an egg on it and my leg.


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## Go3iverson (Feb 24, 2004)

I've been saying this for months, I will not buy another G4 "Power"book.  It's supposed to be a pro line model.  I'm having trouble justifying a Powerbook to my text department when the iBook looks to save us money, while we don't need the extra horsepower.

If I'm spending $2000 - $3000 for a laptop, it should be on the same level of the desktops in that range.  I know, portability, but that excuse only goes so far.  I mean, really, unless you *really* needed a PowerBook ASAP, would you buy a 1.42GHz G4, which would probably be the 17" anyway, knowing that we're one revision away from a 1.6GHz+ G5?


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

I think apple will use the new Motorola cpus somewhere. And the only place they could stuff it now is in the current top powerbooks. I don't think they will use it in the ibook, since the fastest has 1Ghz currently and it would be a huge step to 1.4Ghz. And iMacs? Well, 1.25 to 1.44 seems too big too. 
So, if the first G5 portable cpu would be a min 1.6Ghz, the perfect jump would be from a powerbook 1.4Ghz.


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## fryke (Feb 24, 2004)

You mean Apple is afraid of huge steps? That's hilarious. If the PBs go G5 (1.4 or 1.6 GHz, I don't care much), I think Apple can go 1.4 or 1.5 GHz with the iBooks without any trouble whatsoever. If that p???es off some buyers of the last generation (well, the current one right now) PBs or iBooks, I couldn't care less. We all know that hardware _must_ make some steps here. If they're _possible_, Apple _should_ make them.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> We all know that hardware _must_ make some steps here. If they're _possible_, Apple _should_ make them.


I understand your point, but why are the ibooks still at 1Ghz if it would be possible to go 1.3 as well? 
I see it's not all just a what_is_possible thing, but also what_would_make_more_sense thing. That's why I got the idea, the faster G4s might first take place in the current alubooks...
My hopes and wishes would be to see a G5 book soon, but I somehow doubt this


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## soulseek (Feb 24, 2004)

im just really curious to see the design of the powerbook G5.... 2004 is exciting


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## diablojota (Feb 24, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> im just really curious to see the design of the powerbook G5.... 2004 is exciting



Actually, I would expect it to look similar to the current design.  It already looks mildly similar to the G5 desktop...


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## Randman (Feb 24, 2004)

I think the G5 PB will need a new look to differentiate it from the G4 models. How it's cooled will also play a role in its design.


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## Go3iverson (Feb 24, 2004)

Apple is afraid of taking big steps?

I could have sworn their PowerMacs went from 1.42GHz G4 to 2.0GHz G5 in one revision.... 

And that's not even talking about the system bus!


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## soulseek (Feb 24, 2004)

mac os 9 > mac os X . thats a big step!


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 24, 2004)

Go3iverson said:
			
		

> Apple is afraid of taking big steps?
> 
> I could have sworn their PowerMacs went from 1.42GHz G4 to 2.0GHz G5 in one revision....
> 
> And that's not even talking about the system bus!



Dual 1.42 (best G4 powermac) to single G5 1.6 (weakest G5)


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## Go3iverson (Feb 24, 2004)

lol Sam

Well, if we'e doing best to best, we're talking dual 1.42GHz G4 (167MHz Bus?) -> dual 2.0GHz G5 (1.0GHz bus)


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 25, 2004)

Go3iverson said:
			
		

> lol Sam
> 
> Well, if we'e doing best to best, we're talking dual 1.42GHz G4 (167MHz Bus?) -> dual 2.0GHz G5 (1.0GHz bus)



Hmmm, maybe I didn't choose the right words. You are stucked with numbers, Go3iverson. My point was to tell, there was no huge step (in performance) apple ever took. I might be wrong. I joined the mac scene in 2002 and don't have many ideas about the past. I was hoping one could show an example where apple made a huge step in performance and not be stucked with "meaningless" numbers. 
However, I don't want my idea to get lost: I think the new G4s will first come in the current powerbooks and not ibooks (which would force a G5 powerbook). I hope I will be wrong..


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## hulkaros (Feb 25, 2004)

What about if we will take M$/Intel/Amd as examples? 

During 2003 Intel/Amd they got from 3 GHz to ONLY 3.2 GHz and in some cases (Centrino-Opteron-etc.) they went backwards (3 GHz to 2GHz) all while Apple went from Dual 1.4 GHz to Dual 2 GHz  Now, that's a HUGE step forward that is, compared to them 

In software front, M$ will make the big step from Win9x/NT to Longwhore, err, Longhorn in 2006-2007 all while Apple is already making ( made perhaps  ) the HUGE, GIANT, MONSTROUS, etc. step from 9 to X 

Either way, Apple IS making BIG forward steps unlike some other MANY time BIGGER companies out there 

As for the original subject, I really hope that a G5 PowerBook will soon be delivered to me, err, Apple's customers


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## fryke (Feb 25, 2004)

Back to that iBook/PB thing: The 7447A is not deliverable in quantities now, the 970FX is. So I see the PB going G5 before anything going 7447A, really. What I want to say is: It seems quite clear that the iBooks CAN use that new G4 chip at the good frequencies, because the PB will get the G5.

About the big steps... Moving from a 1.4 GHz G4 to a 2.0 GHz G5 quite certainly _was_ a big step. Bringing not only 64bit computing to the Mac platform but also about _doubled_ the performance of the highend PowerMac for each and every task.


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## Go3iverson (Feb 25, 2004)

Hulkaros is hitting this on the head...

We're in the gross minority in market share and, in some cases, general opinion, as far as the IT world goes.  Panther and the G5 have really started to change that opinion.  Remember when we were stuck at ~500MHz and the Intel world sped ahead?  This is our chance.  If we can stay in the spotlight with innovative new hardware and software, every year, while AMD tries to figure out how to progress with their 64 bit chip, Intel tries to push its 32 bit chips past this little plateau they seem to have hit, and Microsoft figures out how to get the bugs out of Longhorn, we could really gain some marketshare. 

When Apple was quiet, the industry left us behind a bit, now its our turn.  Will we take over MS?  No.  Not even close.  But if we could solidify our marketshare a bit, that'd be huge.  Hitting 3.0GHz in 64 bit clock speed would be huge.  It would put AMD in our shoes from the past, playing up the overall performance, as AMD no longer sells their chips by actual clock, but by performance ratings.  We'd also be closing in on Intel's 32 bit clock with our 64 bit chip.  Software wise, the team at Apple should be receiving Longhorn betas and reading all the articles about it that they can.  Make sure you beat Microsoft to the punch on a lot of their main performance features, in less time, with possibly much better hardware to run it on.

Historically, like I showed, we're not known for huge steps, or leaps.  On the other hand, historically, well, recent history at least, shows that we're way behind in share.  Marketshare isn't everything because we could be increasing in user numbers while losing in share, depending on how fast the market's growing, but this is a prime time to expand in both.  We know Microsoft will be quiet for a few more years, but Intel always has something to steal away our thunder, lets not see that happen again.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 25, 2004)

The reason I mentioned apple was not into big steps was this:
G3 -> G4. I remember many talks and benchmarks, where the G4 wasn't faster at all. After some time the Altivec support spread but G3 still survived till this year. Same to the current G5s and the old powermac G4s. The dual G4 1.42ghz powermac is not really that much slower than a dual G5 2Ghz as it sounds like. Right now, apple could go at least 1.3Ghz with the ibooks, but they don't. Of course, there are the powerbooks which will look really bad after such an update (if there was no plan for a G5 powerbook). This shows to me: can do != will do. And if Apple has a G5 for a powerbook now, they mustn't go for it. Esspecially when they still have a Motorola chip in their sleeves which has a wattage half as high as the G5..
However, eventhough the new Motorola chip is not ready yet, the board is done. And if I got it all right, there is still no board layout for the G5 powerbook.


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## soulseek (Feb 25, 2004)

a dual 1.42 ghz. is very different to a single 1.42ghz.
u cant compare a dual 1.42 ghz G4 to a 1.6 Ghz G5 because in a powerbook u will get a SINGLE 1.5ghz G4. or a Single 1.6 ghz (for example) G5. and yes that will be a big difference  

in this link : http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html 
u will see how much more powerfull the G5 is ... and right now the G5 is not working on a full 64bit OS, and we dont know if these apps can really take advantage of the 64bit processor... so in the end, YES the G4 is crap in comparison to the G5. especially if you have a single G4 in comparison to a single G5


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## fryke (Feb 25, 2004)

zammy: i was talking IF apple does a powerbook g5, THEN apple can release the iBook with 7447A at 1.42 GHz. And: No, the 7447 does not use half the power the 970FX does. We're talking more or less same wattage for the same clock speed. However, the G5 is faster at the same clock speed for all I know.


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## mindbend (Feb 25, 2004)

G5 powerbook: No way we see this until end of summer at best. Apple will likely speed bump the current line to get us by. And certainly the G5 PB will be redesigned. Apple would never drop in a brand new chip, whoe new architecture into an old box. Never.



Off topic slightly: Not to get too off track, but the market share dream is dead. It's over. Macs will never take double digits again in TOTAL market share. The general population may bring it up slightly, maybe even into very low double digits (I doubt it) but you will never see a bank, a hospital, a law firm or a brokerage switch to an all Mac lineup even if everyone in the company thought it was a better OS and machine. I've come to accept this reality. But the good news is that there are a few million of us die hards and we're not going anywhere. That's enough to suport a healthy company and still innovate and provide a great OS and great hardware.


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## TWRayer (Feb 25, 2004)

Apple may never use this new Motorola processor.   I believe that they want to get the Powerbook line in G5 ASAP.  Apple *REALLY* hates Motorola, because of the long delays on upgrades, pathetic performance, etc.   I expect the entire line of Macs to be G5 (one flavor or another) by early 2005.

The PowerMacs will be up at 3GHz (90nm),  the Powerbooks will be 1.6-2.0 GHz (90nm), the iMac will probably use the old 1.6-2.0 GHz (130nm) chips.   The iBook may keep using the G4, or Apple could switch it to the IBM Super G3 w/Altivec and just call it a G4.

Personally, I think that if Apple went exclusively with IBM chips, we would all be much better off.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 26, 2004)

mindbend said:
			
		

> G5 powerbook: No way we see this until end of summer at best. Apple will likely speed bump the current line to get us by. And certainly the G5 PB will be redesigned. Apple would never drop in a brand new chip, whoe new architecture into an old box. Never.


I don't believe in the new powerbook G5 to be out until the end of this summer as well. However, I don't think apple will redesign the case. The ibooks showed that they can and do keep the "old" case if it's good enough even when a new chip has been installed.


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## texanpenguin (Feb 27, 2004)

They will NEED to redesign the case. Think about the amount of perforation required on the Power Mac G5 case (albeit the original 970 as opposed to the 970FX 90nm system), or the differences between the 32- and 64-bit X-Serves.

They'll need to redesign the case, for cooling at very least. That having been said, don't expect anything radically different. People are in love with the designs of the G4 Powerbooks, just as they were with the G3 ones.


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## Randman (Feb 27, 2004)

It all depends on how they'll be cooled. I think black would be a great color and would help seperate it from the rest of the pack, but it would depend on the heat factor. I don't see the grilled look as it would be too easy for contamination.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 27, 2004)

But wouldn'T that have been a really short halflife for the alubooks design? Doesn't sound like Apple...


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## Go3iverson (Feb 27, 2004)

It would be, at least for the 15" model, but the 12" and 17" have been around a bit.  I mean, Apple didn't use the Quicksilver tower for more than one revision, did they?  That's a question, I know I have the 867MHz, but I think they next model was the mirrored doors, which they only used for 2, I believe(?)

I just really can't see people flocking to buy up a new G4 PowerBook.  If I *needed* one ASAP, I'd probably call around and find the current model at a reduced price.  I mean, everyone wants a G5, the market has moved to notebooks, it seems, and most PC users, even ones that can't stand Apple or its pricing, always say how much they like the Apple laptops.  Combine all that together and it should be a great boost to Apple's computer hardware line which has been fairly stagnant lately.


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## Randman (Feb 27, 2004)

True, though as much as I want a G5 PowerBook right now, I think I'd hold off until rev B.


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

I guess rather than waiting for a Rev. B, I'd wait for user reports. When I bought my Titanium PowerBook G4/500 (Rev. A), I waited until two months after they appeared in stores here (about a month after their introduction, that was). Until then I already knew that they got quite hot, but it didn't really matter, because I _needed_ to upgrade from my Rev. B iBook G3/300 for Mac OS X.

I guess with the PB G5 it'll be a similar case. There _will_ be issues, but if they're known already, you can either cope with them or return your 'book on arrival, so it's fixed before you start to work with it.

For a mobile user like myself, a 12" PowerBook G5 would certainly rock. I've learnt to appreciate the small size of my current iBook over the screen real estate that I had with the TiBook - because when I'm working at home, I connect it to a bigger screen. On the road, mobility is king for me.

However, I'll take a hard look at the next PowerBooks before buying one. Let's just say that PB G5s _will_ come. The question is when. And for marketing, it'd be very important for Apple to move to the G5 as fast as possible.


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

This whole discussion has inspired me to actually find _out_ what those processors consume. See http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/02/27#20040227_pbg5


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## Go3iverson (Feb 27, 2004)

See, I think Apple needs the G5 PowerBook.  Apple will strive off of its installed base first, then, obviously, from attracting new users.  The installed base wants the G5.  Even people who have recently purchased, within the last 1-2 years, want the G5.  I'll be honest.  I LOVE my 1GHz TiBook.  It does everything I need, but hey, since the company wants to buy me a laptop ASAP, I'll take a new one.  

Even if they weren't, It'd be hard to not sell off my TiBook and grab a new G5 laptop.

Now move to the PC side.  Like I've said, even a hardcore Mac basher gives credit to their portables and the G5, but mostly the design.  Combine them and bang, there ya go!

I guess my big thing is, 250MHz is a nice chunk, but not enough to make me want to move from my PowerBook.  I considered it, primarily for the new light keyboard, but the cost was too great to only get 250MHz, AirPort Extreme, and backlight keyboard...especially since my laptop has a full 1GB of RAM, which is pricey from Apple direct.  It just didn't pack enough bang for the buck to get me to upgrade.  

Now, give me a 1.5GHz G4, now available from Motorola and guess what...I still won't upgrade.  Why?  Because I know I've waited this long and the G5 *is* coming at the max in another revision, so why give up the fight now?


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## mindbend (Feb 27, 2004)

Go3,

I think a lot of people are in your position. We're going to grab at least one G5 (maybe two) laptops whenever they arrive. We're currently using a PC laptop and now an iBook for our portable needs, but we want to go all Mac. In short, we don't absolutely need a laptop right this second, so we're willing to wait as long as it takes for the G5 laptop. I think a lot of people are thinking the same.


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## Randman (Feb 27, 2004)

Why use a pc laptop and an iBook??


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## Arden (Feb 28, 2004)

Because that's what they bought at the time?

I think Apple should design the new Powerbook G5's like some kind of Klingon sword. 

And they definitely need to release something soon.  If Apple can catch up to Intel in clock rate by midyear, surely they can stuff a G5 into a portable by then if not long after.


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## mindbend (Feb 28, 2004)

Randman,

There's a very good reason why we use a PC and iBook laptops (currently). The PC is the only reasonable way we can run ASP code in the field without having an internet connection (which we can't guarantee at a given location). As we switch to PHP it won't be an issue any more (or as we get Mac laptops powerful enough to run VPC smoothly for ASP emulation). Plus, my programmer was a PC guy and it's taken a while to get him to drink the koolaid. As soon as a G5 laptop appears, he's committed to switching. One more down, a few billion to go.

BTW--The biggest reason he's switching is thanks to www.oreilly.com and www.meyerweb.com, two top notch programmers who happen to be Mac fans.


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## Go3iverson (Feb 28, 2004)

It would also give Apple a huge advantage of only having one real competitor at 64 bit mobile computing, eMachines.  Personally, myself and everyone I know would never touch an eMachine due to their track record.  Maybe they make a fine product now, but I know people would rather say "I have a PowerBook G5" than "I have an eMachine!".  

It also gives Apple a chance to really work on making their OS more 64 bit ready, or 64 bit itself.  I've run Windows XP 64 on my Athlon64 and was completely unimpressed.  None of my motherboard devices worked and the drivers wouldn't run.  I've tried installing 2003 Server, which blue screens out everytime.  Regular XP is pretty good to run on it, but you know your wasting a nice CPU.  

There are many different ways that Apple can wedge itself into the PC world a bit further with this laptop.  Those considerations are important too, as we all can only buy so many machines at once!


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## mdnky (Feb 28, 2004)

Quite a few of the 'high-end' clone makers have been doing a 64bit laptop since the introduction of the AMD64 platform, so E-Machines isn't the only one out they...they're just the cheapest by far.

Unless Apple catches up with the market in general (meaning a g5 PB) the outcome in the near future won't be pretty.  I was all set to buy a new 15" PB around x-mass, but after using one for a few days realized it was a waste of money and instead found this g3 iBook for a steal ($700 new in box, unopened).  If they expect me to pay $3000 for a laptop, they better at least run on par with the competitors who cost a mere $2000 on average.  The g4 isn't doing that at all.

On a side note, try loading Mandraker on that server, runs great on the prototype we just built at work and it's not M$.


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 2, 2004)

delay for powermacs and powerbooks? No matter if G4 or G5 powerbook, ATI is kinda causing some delay. Guess they are talking about the new 9700 mobility with hopefully 128mb of ram.. 
Anyway, don't like to wait at least till april..
Check here: http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040301135938.shtml


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## OrganLeroy (Mar 3, 2004)

Has anyone heard anything new about when a speed upgrade for the G4 Powerbooks might arrive?


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 4, 2004)

referring to my previous post it might not be before april..


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## hulkaros (Mar 4, 2004)

I don't know about Apple's speed update to G4 PowerBooks but I certainly know mine! From TiBook 1GHz/DVD-R I will go in the next few days to the AluBook 1.25GHz/DVD-R  While not THAT big step, I think it is an ok one coupled with my Dual G5/2GHz


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 4, 2004)

You are sick, hulk! If you were not married yet, I would have kicked your a**!


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## hulkaros (Mar 4, 2004)




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