# Classic to be disabled in panther?



## KKBFiredancer (Jun 5, 2003)

I work for an IT division of a state university, and while im one of the major go to guys for mac problems, my boss heard from someone that classic is going to be disabled in panther.  Is there any truth to this?  I try to keep on top of all mac rumors that i can, but this is one that i DEFINATELY havent heard.

Thanks.


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## serpicolugnut (Jun 5, 2003)

Doubt it. Classic is still a necessary bridge for new OS X users migrating from OS 9. It got much better with Jaguar, so I doubt they would disable it. There might not be much new development in the technology, but I seriously doubt Apple would pull it (yet)... 

I've heard rumors to the contrary, actually, that speculate that Classic will reside in a disk image that will be loaded when necessary, instead of an actual live OS 9 system folder.


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## KKBFiredancer (Jun 5, 2003)

Thats what i thought, and in everything that i have been reading, NOTHING said ANYTHING about killing classic.  That would make absolutely no sense at all.  

I can understand not giving the machines the option to boot into 9, because of hardware restrictions.

Anyone else hear anything about this?


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## Rhino_G3 (Jun 5, 2003)

are they disabling the classic environment or the ability to boot to OS 9?
I wouldn't feel that they could possibly disable OS 9 completely unless it's on new machines or through a firmware update.
I'd really hope that they don't cill the classic environment (although I think I've never used it since ICQ got carbonized a few years ago )


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## Dlatu1983 (Jun 5, 2003)

There's absolutely no way that they'd kill Classic. The reason the the "education" machines (the emac) are the only ones able to boot into OS 9 is that Apple realizes that with school budgets the way they are, districts can't afford new software (OS X and it's apps)...disabling classic would effectively lose one of Apple's major buyers (the educational market)


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## KKBFiredancer (Jun 5, 2003)

See, this is what i was thinking, which is why im leaning towards it not being discontinued.

ESPECIALLY here at an educational institution.

I also heard that apple may stop offering educational discounts on software, but leave the hardware discounts.

Any ideas on that?


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## MisterMe (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KKBFiredancer _
> *I work for an IT division of a state university, and while im one of the major go to guys for mac problems, my boss heard from someone that classic is going to be disabled in panther.  Is there any truth to this?  I try to keep on top of all mac rumors that i can, but this is one that i DEFINATELY havent heard.
> 
> Thanks. *


Sounds to me like someone spends too much time on rumor sites. Apple has disabled MacOS 9 booting on new computers. However, that does not mean that they cannot run MacOS 9 applications. Most run just fine in the Classic environment. MacOS X 11.0 is my earliest guess for the demise of Classic and that is a WAG.


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## hulkaros (Jun 5, 2003)

Worst case scenario:
Apple disables Classic completely...

Result:
So what? Even Quark is around the corner... OS X is stable enough and has more software... OS X supports almost all G3 and G4 Macs... And version 10.2.x is running Classic more than enough!

Legacy software and hardware should update one day, you know? If not to Panther at least they could update to Jaguar!  And even if they will not and that legacy stuff has more than what its customers need/want/care, power to them!


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## gwynarion (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Worst case scenario:
> Apple disables Classic completely...
> 
> ...


Were you not paying attention to what people were saying in here?

Many educational clients of Apple's are still using machines that boot into OS 9 because their budgets do not allow for them to buy new versions of their third party software.  I've had a lot of contact with different schools and many of them use software that is more than two to four years old because they (a.) cannot afford new software, (b.) cannot afford (time or money) to train teachers and staff to use new software, and/or (c.) don't want to go through the hassles of migrating data to new apps or new and radically different versions of apps.  My mother works for a school and while they do have new machines (three years old or newer--and that is new for schools) they are still using a number of software packages that were written when OS 7.5 was still the "new" operating system.  And they don't update for all of the reasons that I listed above.

And to just take a moment to address what you said about Quark, do you have much contact with big design houses?  There are a huge number of them that have not yet upgraded to Quark XPress 5, and probably would not even plan on doing so for an other year or so.  Do you think to them that Apple dumping Classic would be a "so what?"  I could enumerate the reasons why this is so but it has already been done in nearly every Mac or design magazine out there so I'll leave you to look it up for yourself.


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## KKBFiredancer (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Worst case scenario:
> Apple disables Classic completely...
> 
> ...



That may work in the private sector, but in a university or other kind of educational market, it doesnt work.  If they dont even leave the classic emulation, many many teachers on campus who use older software will be left out in the dark.

Sure, then they shouldnt upgrade.  Ive heard that argument too.  However, eventually their hardware is going to fail. 

It just seems like WAY too early for apple to kill classic altogether.  Sure, quark is coming out...i didnt know that was the benchmark for hundreds of software vendors to follow.  


And i love all the time i spend on rumor sites, thank you very much


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## hulkaros (Jun 5, 2003)

Come on fellas! It was just a funny posting... I even put all those smilies:
     

Ok, now I will just say this:
I ::love:: you all!


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## Arden (Jun 5, 2003)

KKBFiredancer:  I think you're hearing things.  First that Apple will kill Classic, then that they will drop educational discounts on software?  People in education can't afford _anything_ (except nice district offices it seems), sales would decrease dramatically if they dropped those discounts.  And besides, lots of people still haven't even upgraded to X yet, so Apple really can't kill Classic without repercussions.

hulk: ::ha:: ::ha::!


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## hulkaros (Jun 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *hulk: ::ha:: ::ha::! *



At last, here is one person who understands humor and jokes   ::ha:: ::ha:: ::ha::


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## KKBFiredancer (Jun 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *KKBFiredancer:  I think you're hearing things.  First that Apple will kill Classic, then that they will drop educational discounts on software?  People in education can't afford anything (except nice district offices it seems), sales would decrease dramatically if they dropped those discounts.  And besides, lots of people still haven't even upgraded to X yet, so Apple really can't kill Classic without repercussions.
> 
> hulk: ::ha:: ::ha::! *




See, thats what i was saying.  I was just wondering if anyone had heard that classic support was being terminated.

Normally with rumors like that, i pretty much discount them, but i wanted to make sure that i knew as much about it as i could before i let my boss know.  Budgets for software have to be decided soon, and if classic isnt supported, it will drasticly affect out need to migrate to 10.3 across campus.


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## Arden (Jun 6, 2003)

How much of a discount is there for Windows software?  That should determine the educational discount for Mac software.


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## toast (Jun 6, 2003)

There's no good reason for removing Classic. I can't see any use to such a move.


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## Orion27 (Jun 6, 2003)

Yeah you can run Windows but not Classic. Don't think so.


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## macosXrumors (Jun 6, 2003)

I don't think that Apple will disable classic on Panther, believe me I have some reliable people informing me.


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## Doxology (Jun 6, 2003)

I think the confusion here is just spilling over from the removal of dual-boot.

No more Classic boot.

Long live Classic environment.


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## MaC hAcKeR (Jun 6, 2003)

SO like, when I get my PowerBook (soon) I cant boot into classic?! Is there a way to boot into classic?! I love 9, but I love X, but a world without 9 is a life in hell! Yeh, the classic enviorment is cool but what do I do If I need to boot into classic?


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## toast (Jun 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by macosXrumors _
> *I don't think that Apple will disable classic on Panther, believe me I have some reliable people informing me. *



I don't think any reliable source is necessary here (although I appreciate this last post of yours, don't misunderstand me  ).

I mean, logical sense is enough to understand Apple has strictly no reason for killing a (still important !) part of its consumer base.

I think, as Doxology does, that the confusion comes from the dual boot. May I add: long live MacOS 9.2.2 and its unequalled speed on my G3/500.


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 6, 2003)

Education will always be behind. Some schools around here still use 8.5
By the time they finally switch to Mac OS X everything will be native and Mac OS 9 will be another distant memory.


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## filcall (Jun 7, 2003)

As I stated on an earlier post on another site, OS 9 will be gone when apple offers a machine that does not use OS9 to enable  OSX to appear work. At that time I thought that this point would be reached by the end of this year. I am no longer that optimistic. If you watch the problems that arise with each upgrade to OSX, this entire OS is going to be a long lasting developmental problem. In my opinion, the Mac OS is going to split in to OS9/OSX in the near term. After OSX-plus matures, this will change. For the better, I hope.


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## Rhino_G3 (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MaC hAcKeR _
> *a world without 9 is a life in hell!  *


    
I haven't heard that in a loooong while!


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## Arden (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by filcall _
> *...the Mac OS is going to split in to OS9/OSX in the near term.*


How so?  Apple is trying to kill OS 9 as best it is able, and it's doing a pretty good job since new computers don't boot into it, and most software is either hybrid or X-only now.  They won't offer a choice of 9 or X or something like that, that's for sure.


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## MaC hAcKeR (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rhino_G3 _
> *
> I haven't heard that in a loooong while! *


I luv classic alot. Classic is da bomb. I use 9 more than X. I dunno, I like X, but like 9 is better IMO
s tere a way to bot into OS 9 on a PB G4?


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## texanpenguin (Jun 7, 2003)

See this goes against everything I've heard so far.

I heard that Apple was to release OS9.3 at the same time as OS 10.3, so they'd be perfectly compatible. I also heard that there'd be a new key on the bootup screen (like T for Target Disk Mode, C for boot off CD etc etc) that would boot into Classic, so you didn't have to open up OSX and change the Startup Disk.

I NEED OS9 to use my WallStreet's module floppy drive, which I need to transfer files between my PCs and it, as I can't afford a hub, and already have a crossover cable in use. Apple disables OS9 booting, they had better'd introduce Disk support in Panther, or else I'm sticking with Jaguar.

I'd like it if they release ADB Wacom drivers too, so I could use my tablet in OSX. There's no USB port on the computer for my USB tablet...

Sigh - I want a PowerBook G4.


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## toast (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *How so?
> 1. Apple is trying to kill OS 9 as best it is able, and it's doing a pretty good job since new computers don't boot into it, and
> 2. most software is either hybrid or X-only now.
> 3. They won't offer a choice of 9 or X or something like that, that's for sure. *



1. They're just cutting all their costs related to OS9, which is a logical move.
2. That's a natural evolution, little to do Apple Inc. policies IMHO.
3. For sure, see point 1.


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## Arden (Jun 8, 2003)

I, too, use 9 more than X, which I almost never boot into.  However, when I do, I have no problems using floppies.

A new key to boot into Classic would be useful, however I doubt they would do this because none of the computers they sell would be able to use it.


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## Arden (Jun 12, 2003)

Imagine how well OS X could run when Apple finally _can_ remove Classic support (in maybe 3-5 years).


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## MaC hAcKeR (Jun 12, 2003)

Hey arden, you have the same iMac as me! Do you have troubles booting into osx? (sorry for going off topic:-\)


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## fryke (Jun 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Imagine how well OS X could run when Apple finally can remove Classic support (in maybe 3-5 years). *



Erhm... Stop 'Classic' and you'll see how fast Mac OS X is today... (?!) Mac OS X is in no way reduced to 'support Classic'.


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## Arden (Jun 14, 2003)

Machacker:  No, I sometimes have problems booting into 9, but they seem to be related to the 250 MB Zip drive.

fryke:  I'm talking about when Apple can stop having to support Classic completely and devote all its resources to making X run quickly and efficiently, not just how it runs when Classic isn't running.


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## MaC hAcKeR (Jun 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Machacker:  No, I sometimes have problems booting into 9, but they seem to be related to the 250 MB Zip drive.
> 
> fryke:  I'm talking about when Apple can stop having to support Classic completely and devote all its resources to making X run quickly and efficiently, not just how it runs when Classic isn't running. *


Wierd... I have the same iMac and It wont boot into OS X without a safeboot...
I think classic should stay with OS X


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## Arden (Jun 14, 2003)

What do you have installed, both hardware and software?  What version of X are you using?  Does booting into 9 work?


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## MaC hAcKeR (Jun 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *What do you have installed, both hardware and software?  What version of X are you using?  Does booting into 9 work? *


 Im not gonna talk about it here because thats not what this thread is about. If you have AIM, hit me at "OxagenWastinLosa". Lol... I have the worst screen names...


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## Randman (Jun 15, 2003)

It's not the schools that will keep the Classic environment alive, but the publishing industry. Even with Quark 6.0 coming out, most newspapers and magazines that use Macs will stay in the OS 9 environment, for cheaper costs at least.
   Eventually, everything that is Classic now will migrate to later OS's, but you're not going to see too many companies shilling out hefty amounts, especially in this economic climate, of $$$ to go to an unproven commodity such as 6/0. Heck, most I know of still stay in the early versions of 4.0 for Quark.
  Apple's not going to shoot itself in the foot by killing something so quickly. 10.3 and later revisions will all add features that make it easier for migration. Think of how they handled the jump to Jaguar, gradual not sudden. Sudden would = suicide in this case.


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## Arden (Jun 15, 2003)

Definitely.  That's why I give Classic a lifespan of 3-5 years:  that's how long I think it'll take Apple and the industry to get to the point where Classic is more like Antique.


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## Randman (Jun 15, 2003)

> That's why I give Classic a lifespan of 3-5 years: that's how long I think it'll take Apple and the industry to get to the point where Classic is more like Antique.


 Not too long ago, I would laugh and call that heresy, but I think you're right on. And most won't miss it. I know I was hesitant to abandon it, but now, outside of the workplace, I rarely run it except to power a few apps.


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## Arden (Jun 15, 2003)

I just wish there were an easier, cheaper way to move to OS X than having to re-buy every piece of software you already own.  That's the main hindrance for most people; Apple should offer some kind of rebates for software if you upgrade all your stuff when you buy OS X.


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## fryke (Jun 16, 2003)

(Closing the thread because of way-off-topic-ness.)


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