# Mac mini



## bookem (Jan 11, 2005)

I want one, and I want one now!!!  That's way cooler than I'm sure anyone expected!  Who's orderin'?


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## ged3000 (Jan 11, 2005)

"Keyboard, iPod mini, dock, hands, AirPort, Bluetooth and PC sold separately."

It doesnt come with hands 

(http://www.apple.com/uk/macmini/design.html)

Wow.....


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## kainjow (Jan 11, 2005)

Here's something interesting: on the main Mac mini page, there is a little blurb on the right column titled "Perfect for Programmers". Are they trying to appeal to Windows/Linux programmers with a cheap-o machine to develop on (well obviously they are)?

Hm...


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## bookem (Jan 11, 2005)

From £339 in the UK.  Glad to see they haven't just swapped the $ for a £.


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## chadwick (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm ordering one right now. My only real complaint about it is that the built-in video is a Radeon 9200 with only 32MB of RAM. 64MB of video RAM would have really made it much more useful (for me). But honestly it's still a great box and setup.


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## chadwick (Jan 11, 2005)

kainjow said:
			
		

> Here's something interesting: on the main Mac mini page, there is a little blurb on the right column titled "Perfect for Programmers". Are they trying to appeal to Windows/Linux programmers with a cheap-o machine to develop on (well obviously they are)?
> 
> Hm...



I could see owning three or four of these just for testing various OS versions quickly and easily. That'll do until something like VMware exists for OS X, if ever.


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## kainjow (Jan 11, 2005)

That was what I was thinking... they'd be perfect for testing.

Now time to convince the family to get Mac's


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## chadwick (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, as usual they do add up qiuck. For the 1.42GHz version with 512MB RAM, a SuperDrive, and the Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme add-ons, $903 US.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2005)

How much are iLife 05 + panther? Let's say they will be at least $199. That will make the iMac mini cost $300!! Great, huh? And for the first time I see some reasonable Euro-prices compared to those in the US. I will order one!


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## Viro (Jan 11, 2005)

chadwick said:
			
		

> I could see owning three or four of these just for testing various OS versions quickly and easily. That'll do until something like VMware exists for OS X, if ever.



Link them together on the network for fast distcc compiles!!! Distributed computing, here we come


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 11, 2005)

is it just me or does anyone find it creepy that basically that the MacMini costs less than the iPodPhoto?   ::ha:: 

I was hoping for price drops in the iPod line -
$99 iPod Shuffle
$199 iPod Mini
$249 iPod 20GB - wishful thinking!
$299 iPod 40GB -wishful thinking!
$399 iPod photo 40GB
$499 iPod Photo 60GB
$599 iPod Photo 80GB


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2005)

I was thinking about that after I heard the rumors of the $500 Mac mini... I got a 60GB iPod photo for Christmas, and now, I don't know which one I'd want if I had the choice between the two!

I think I'd still favor the iPod photo.  If you haven't used one, it is phenomenal.  The color screen is brilliant, and having access to every single song in your iTunes library wherever you want is mind-blowing.

It would be cool if my iPod photo ran OS X, but still, I think I'd take the iPod over the Mac mini any day.

Still, I want a Mac mini extremely bad...   The specs are great -- it's almost as portable as an iPod, and it's a complete, decently-powered Macintosh that fits in two hands!


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## andychrist (Jan 11, 2005)

Imagine this baby selling as well as the iPods?!!


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## bookem (Jan 11, 2005)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> How much are iLife 05 + panther? Let's say they will be at least $199. That will make the iMac mini cost $300!! Great, huh? And for the first time I see some reasonable Euro-prices compared to those in the US. I will order one!




Hey cool idea there.  Didn't think of it that way!!


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## symphonix (Jan 11, 2005)

I think this is going to prove to be an extremely useful and popular machine. While it would be fun to set it up with BlueTooth keyboard and mouse and hook it directly to the TV and stereo as an effective DVD player, games machine, photo browser, iTunes jukebox, watching DivX movies or hooking it up to an iSight and using it for video conferencing. The specs are _just right_ for all of these tasks.

And if you're into home movies and don't allready have a DVD writer, then the SuperDrive upgrade and the included iLife '05 will let you just plug in your DV camera and burn straight to DVD.

For programmers and other techie types, it represents a great new toy that can be put to use in a lot of clever ways. Website developers from the Windows world might consider a Mac Mini and a KVM switch as a handy way of testing sites out on various Mac browsers. It would make a nice box for a Linux fan to muck around with, too, and would be handy for kiosk applications as well.

All up, very tempting, very cool -- though I'll probably be putting my cash into two "work related" items from the show: iWork and iPod Shuffle. ;-)


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 11, 2005)

In my opinion they have just broken down the final barrier to those on-the-fence about switching. this is the year of Apple.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2005)

iWork definitely, and the new iLife as well... simply for iPhoto 5!

The new Mac mini is a great answer to Microsoft's Media Center... this thing does it all, and then some.


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 11, 2005)

symphonix said:
			
		

> I think this is going to prove to be an extremely useful and popular machine. While it would be fun to set it up with BlueTooth keyboard and mouse and hook it directly to the TV and stereo as an effective DVD player, games machine, photo browser, iTunes jukebox, watching DivX movies or hooking it up to an iSight and using it for video conferencing. The specs are _just right_ for all of these tasks.





keep in mind most LCD HDTVs can double as Computer monitors


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 11, 2005)

man, i didnt even think of that!!! the Mac Media Center!!! Now I want one just for that!!! (course I'd have to get a LCD HDTV too!  )


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## paulie-mafia (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, you've sure gotta hand it to Apple!  I have a 2 month old G5 sitting here, macked up with RAM and a bunch of extras and yet I still want one!

What with Firefox eating into IE's market share, large organisations switching to open source, Longhorn a good 18 months away (and even then a few years behind OSX in terms of sophistication) and now this, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy a Windows PC.

That is unless you enjoy looking at a blue screen while you bang your head against that crappy beige tower unit.....

The day of the Apple is nigh, down with Wintel, long live the Mac!


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2005)

Ah. Mac mini. I'll get one. Hopefully, a user can rip out its guts and replace the meager HD with a 200 or 300 GB one...    I'll take the slower one, too, since VLC doesn't need _that_ much horsepower.


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## sur (Jan 11, 2005)

i think this is a really nice idea.. however: why only two usb ports? i got my keyboard, got my mouse which need to be plugged in and.. here we go, i need a usb hub if i want to access the photos on my camera using both keyboard and mouse.

second: why no microphone port? this is what really spoils the mac mini for me. i enjoy internet telephony over skype and this thing, as nice as it otherwise is, does not have a microphone port? why leave out that? because they want me to buy an isight? because i could use the microphone over usb... oh wait, there are only two usb ports.

nice idea apple, but why no microphone port? why not another usb port?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2005)

Mouse can plug into the keyboard -- in fact, that's what Apple recommends.  So you'd be left with one free USB port -- for your camera, USB microphone, etc.

My G4 only has two USB ports, and has a keyboard/mouse plugged into one port and a hub into the other, for a total of 5 USB ports (plus one extra on the keyboard).


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2005)

sur, who cares about usb keyboard or mouse or microphone over jack when there are wonderful bluetooth devices? Imagine you have your bluetooth headset and use skype running on your Mac mini, dial your friends number over your bluetooth keyboard and mouse and all from the couch... That's what Apple is going for. 
Fryke, I was wondering if they are using 2.5'' disks such as for laptops or regular 3.5''. The compact case proposes 2.5'' and so the limited capacity on max 80gb.


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## Convert (Jan 11, 2005)

VERY nice machine. I may entice my parents to get one.

One thing: The UK Apple store has slowed down to a halt LOL. Too many people going on there I bet.


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## quiksan (Jan 11, 2005)

or you get BT built-in and a BT mouse/keyboard. then you still have 2 usb ports...


think about the portability.  I know it's not meant as a laptop, but it's PORTABLE being that tiny.  I occassionally cary an external HD with me that's about the same size...
I could have a display/keyboard/mouse at home, and the same at my office, and take it back and forth.  it COULD act as a cheap laptop when you've got set destinations with the right hardware waiting.  not ideal, but never know who it might work well for.


also, for the windows users who are finally ready to make that jump, they can put it in the closet, and use remote desktop connection to still connect to and use whatever they need from their old windows machine.

man I can't wait to get one of these.  or 2...


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## bookem (Jan 11, 2005)

I've been kind of thinking of building a linux cube type thing for a while.  Why bother now seen as this now exists.  It's like the Cube for real people.


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## gerbick (Jan 11, 2005)

don't you still need an USB keyboard initially when pairing the BT keyboard and mouse to any mac?


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## Viro (Jan 11, 2005)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Fryke, I was wondering if they are using 2.5'' disks such as for laptops or regular 3.5''. The compact case proposes 2.5'' and so the limited capacity on max 80gb.



Seagate has recently released a 100GB 5400 RPM drive. Looks really sweet.


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## DJ Dylan (Jan 11, 2005)

I want one so bad.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2005)

So, there are 2.5'' hdds installed?


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## paulie-mafia (Jan 11, 2005)

Guys guys guys!

Watchu all complaining about?!

More than 2 USB ports would be great, but look at it this way...I'm forced to use a Compaq PC at work - it's only 18 months old, yet it has just 2 USB ports and NO firewire whatsoever. It sucks!

Now imagine you have a 3 year old PC (average upgrade time) - it will be packing Win 2000 (XP you're lucky!), a 400-800mhz processor, next to no RAM, a rubbish graphics card and it probably grinds to a halt every time you rip a CD in iTunes (not that you've got any space left on your tiny HD) or plug a digital camera in.  You want to upgrade, but you don't have a whole chunk of money to spend....

This Mac makes perfect sense, even with only 2 USB ports.  You can use all your PC peripherals and it will make your life a whole lot easier when it comes to music and photos.

Let's face it, while some of us are power users, the majority of people use a PC to load up their ipod, download their photos, update their resume and surf the net.  This machine does it all for the price of a no-brand PC, but with a little bit of style!

P-M


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## nixgeek (Jan 11, 2005)

I already told my Windows-lurving wife that I'm getting one of these once the tax refund comes in.  Although I am also contemplating waiting until Tiger is released...but the temptation is just to strong to just get it ASAP! 

This is the perfect machine for doing my music compositions on with my synth.  None of my other Macs (with maybe the exception of the Quadra's size) or PCs would compare with the portability of the Mac mini.

Awesome job, Apple!


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## alexandr (Jan 11, 2005)

is the video-card strong enough to support watching DVD's in very good quality on a large LCD??


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2005)

If large LCD doesn't mean 30'' cinema.. Yes! But it won't be powerful enough to play current 3d games at a high detail-level.


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## alexandr (Jan 11, 2005)

no, i didn't mean the 30" cinema, but a normal LCD wich also doubles as a normal tv kind of.. a LCD with a tuner, maybe 25-26" or the 23" apple cinema display..

.a


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## soulseek (Jan 11, 2005)

i want one of these to replace my big bulky and old quicksilver 933mhz G4


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2005)

alexandr said:
			
		

> no, i didn't mean the 30" cinema, but a normal LCD wich also doubles as a normal tv kind of.. a LCD with a tuner, maybe 25-26" or the 23" apple cinema display..
> 
> .a


Most of such LCDs run at something like 1280x1024 or so. This should be no problem for the 32mb graphic card.


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## alexandr (Jan 11, 2005)

ok. thanks, zammy!
good news.


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## sur (Jan 11, 2005)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> sur, who cares about usb keyboard or mouse or microphone over jack when there are wonderful bluetooth devices?



actually, you are so totally right on that one that i wonder why i didn't think of that  i only need to get all of that stuff... but yeah, i can't belive that didn't occur to me


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## Pengu (Jan 11, 2005)

I think the microphone question can be answered easily. We all know apple try to get you to buy their products. let's face it, there is nothing quite like the apple synergy between products (except maybe Microsoft Windows/Office/Visual Studio/Server crashing in sync)

So you get an iSight. firewire webcam and high quality microphone. then you don't lose any usb. or use an imic


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## lbj (Jan 11, 2005)

I love it. Absolutely, and I will be getting one, maybe two. But I do wish the form factor was not quite so compromised. 

4 USB ports would be nice: camera, printer, Palm, keyboard, speakers, mouse--that's five already.  I realize there are work arounds, bluetooth, USB ports on keyboard, hubs, etc, but this is also supposed to be cost effective for switchers.  They even go so far as to mention using equipment you already own.  Not with only two USB ports.

Also, I can't find anything about user accessible RAM. Am I stuck with Apple RAM and their outrageous prices?

I wish I could degrade the "coolness" of it just a notch or two, and upgrade it's usability without buying all new equipment.

Anyway, just 2 cents worth.


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## alexandr (Jan 11, 2005)

any guesses on when this thing will ship???
was a date mentioned in the keynote?

.a


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2005)

No guesses - Apple already said it's shipping on the 22nd of January, or will be delivered by the 22nd with a pre-order.  Check the Apple Store.


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2005)

Date is 22nd of January in the USA, 29th for the rest, I think. 2 USB ports are enough, believe me. If you've got more devices, you'll want a hub anyway. And if you're a PC user with five or six USB devices, chances are you've already GOT an USB hub.


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## andychrist (Jan 11, 2005)

Too bad there's only one RAM slot though.  $425 extra for one gig, yikes!

Wonder if this thing could run iLife and iWork smoothly on just, say, 256 Mb.

Maybe Tiger will get more out of RAM, even in a G4?

Otherwise not much to complain about...  this could be the best selling computer ever.   (IIRC the original iMac was the single biggest seller of its time.)


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## alexandr (Jan 11, 2005)

meaning it will only take pre-built-in RAM from apple? or is it possible to get some third-party-RAM..?

alex.


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

Very interesting device. I'll probably be getting one (after Tiger is released).

They really should have included digital audio out though - would have made it a significantly better device for the living room.

Kap


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## ThickAir (Jan 11, 2005)

Another piece of crap that is useless to a pro. Only has a "G4" processor of all things and you need to buy everything else for it. Why are you people so excited about this thing? Does it have some benefit I just don't see or have you all gone mad? ::sleepy::


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## kainjow (Jan 11, 2005)

The average Joe who this product is targeted for doesn't even know digital audio exists!! Argh..


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## kainjow (Jan 11, 2005)

ThickAir said:
			
		

> Another piece of crap that is useless to a pro. Only has a "G4" processor of all things and you need to buy everything else for it. Why are you people so excited about this thing? Does it have some benefit I just don't see or have you all gone mad? ::sleepy::


The Mac mini is not for geeks and pros who know their computers. It's for the average PC users who just want a computer that does internet, email, word processing - the BASICs - without any hassle. The Mac mini fits this type of user like a glove.

What next? Complaints about the iPod shuffle and how it doesn't hold your entire music collection, but you're too cheap to buy a normal iPod?


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## clc2112 (Jan 11, 2005)

Sonnet/PowerLogix G5 2.5ghz upgrade card for the Mac Mini!!    

(keep in mind a g4 cube can be upgraded to a 1.7ghz!!)


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2005)

Yeah, but for the price of a Mac mini, right clc2112?  ... I rather get a Mac mini than an upgrade for an old Mac...


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## ScottW (Jan 11, 2005)

Yea, my PC friends are like, "It doesn't come with a mouse or keyboard? Even a cheap $200 Windows PC comes with a mouse and keyboard." My response is, "and what exactly do you do with those two items? Put them in your junk box?"

People crack me, they want a stripped down Mac "it comes with too much stuff" and then you strip it down, "it doesn't come w/ enough", and yet it still remains, "can you upgrade that? doesn't look like you can."

I don't know know if one of these is the "solution" for me, as I'd really like a G5... I want something that will take me into the next two years.


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

kainjow said:
			
		

> The average Joe who this product is targeted for doesn't even know digital audio exists!! Argh..


It's not about the average Joe knowing about it - it's about the salesman being able to use it as a strong selling point.

i.e. "And this thing is *great* to have in your living room ... connect to these speakers using digital audio ..."

Joe _cares_ about sound.

Kap


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

ScottW said:
			
		

> My response is, "and what exactly do you do with those two items? Put them in your junk box?"


The response should be, "yes, BUT you don't get *Tiger* or *iLife* with a cheap (or any other) PC".

These two things are the big competitive advantage Macs have and now PC users can have them for not a lot of money at all.

Kap


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, then you need a better salesman. The thing's _got_ sound. But this is _not_ a media center, so don't act as if it was one. It's a home computer, a cheap one at that, and I think it compares well to other cheap computers out there.

Btw.: Show me the 499$ computer with digital audio out. Show me the 499$ media center. Or rather, know what? Don't.


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## scruffy (Jan 11, 2005)

kainjow said:
			
		

> Here's something interesting: on the main Mac mini page, there is a little blurb on the right column titled "Perfect for Programmers". Are they trying to appeal to Windows/Linux programmers with a cheap-o machine to develop on (well obviously they are)?



Also, the programmer probably already has about four computers on, under, and beside his desk, the fan noise is driving him to distraction, he's tripping over cables, and he uses a KVM, so the last thing he needs is another keyboard and mouse that he won't use.


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## Ripcord (Jan 11, 2005)

RGrphc2 said:
			
		

> keep in mind most LCD HDTVs can double as Computer monitors



And nearly any non-LCD HDTV as well.  Even if the TV doesn't have specific ports for a computer, you can pick up converter boxes from DVI/VGA to HDTV component, etc.

My Y2K-model CRT-based HDTV has a SVGA port specifically for hooking up a computer.  I had one in the living room for a while until I got sick of the noise...    Maybe I will again =)


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## markceltic (Jan 11, 2005)

The first chance I get I'm showing this thing to my neice! Myself I think she'll flip


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## iMan (Jan 11, 2005)

Nice little thing!
It's funny how everyone is buying one and maby even two or more

Wife just got the new IPod shuffle, se just had to get one.

Viktor


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## Mephisto (Jan 11, 2005)

I will get one myself as well but I can wait 4-6 months.  That will give enough time for initial feedback as well as give the mac sites time to determine just how hard it will be to replace the memory.  I would rather not fork out the upgrade for the memory when I have 1GB 333 DDRs sitting around my house not being used.

It is not expensive, especially for  Mac, but when you start piling on the options the price rises quickly.  Is it worth the cost?  Oh yeah. But unless you have a pressing need why not wait to make sure the mac mini does not suffer from 1st gen bugs like many of Apple products have had of late?


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## symphonix (Jan 11, 2005)

gerbick said:
			
		

> don't you still need an USB keyboard initially when pairing the BT keyboard and mouse to any mac?



No. If the Mac doesn't detect a keyboard plugged in, it looks for a BlueTooth one. If it finds it, it then displays a number on the screen with instructions to "Type this number in to pair with the keyboard", thus ensuring it has the right one.



			
				anychrist said:
			
		

> Too bad there's only one RAM slot though. $425 extra for one gig, yikes!
> Wonder if this thing could run iLife and iWork smoothly on just, say, 256 Mb.



I think that for the type of uses you're likely ot put this machine to, 256mb will be just fine. You _might_ bump it up to 512 or so, but for 90% of the demographic there just isn't going to be much point. Even GarageBand will behave _ok_ on 256mb. If you're talking about 1gb, though, then you're going to be happier with an iMac G5 anyway.

To quote Bill Gates, commenting on the Macintosh in 1984:  "This is the computer I'd like to buy for my grandmother".


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## j79 (Jan 11, 2005)

Thank goodness!!

The first thing I did was fire off an e-mail to Bill Palmer - billpalmer.net.

The guy has been saying that no Mac mini would be announced and then gave some rather weak arguments as to why (some articles I read of his were on other sites - can't remember the exact wording - however, his personal site still has some reasons why.. towards the bottom...)

My favorite:


> Alright, I've said all I'm going to say about the headless iMac nonsense (at least until after it doesn't get announced at the Keynote on Tuesday), as I think I've made my position abundantly clear, and I've grown a bit tired of making my point again and again. And at this point I'd have to imagine that many of you are as sick of hearing about it as I am. But for those out there who are (still!) writing to me in an attempt to invent a demand for the headless iMac that just simply is not there, I'll offer you this report from a salesperson at a retail store that sells both Macs and PCs. If you don't want to believe me that there's zero interest in removing the monitor from the Macintosh, then perhaps you'll believe him:
> 
> "Being somewhat in the know on what Apple products motivate switchers, I have to say there is next to no interest in a headless iMac amongst real buyers. Nine out of ten people shopping my Apple section are attracted by the fact the monitor is built in. The ones who are turned off by it are the same type who are convinced the eMachine is a sweet deal. (Which is most often purchased when bundled with a printer and 17" CRT btw)."
> 
> If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.



HAH! No Interest? Sure there's interest, you kook!!! The lack of interest before was because there was NO headless mac to begin with...


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

Had an interesting realisation about the Mac mini - it's possibly one of the best computers around for travelling between home and work/uni.

Sure, you won't be able to use it on the train or anything, but:

It must be half to two-thirds the weight of the 12" PB!
It's about a third of the price of the 12" PB.
Anybody actually know the weight of the Mac mini vs the 12" PB?

Kap


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## j79 (Jan 11, 2005)

MacMini weighs in at 2.9 pounds (1.32 kg)
PowerBook 12" weighs in at 4.6 pounds (2.1 kg) with battery installed.


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## ScottW (Jan 11, 2005)

2.9 doesn't include the weight of the power-brick.


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

j79 said:
			
		

> MacMini weighs in at 2.9 pounds (1.32 kg)
> PowerBook 12" weighs in at 4.6 pounds (2.1 kg) with battery installed.


 Thanks 

 How cool is that?



			
				ScottW said:
			
		

> 2.9 doesn't include the weight of the power-brick.


  Does the PB weight above include it's power brick?

  Kap


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## ScottW (Jan 11, 2005)

No... but the PB "brick" is light-weight and just a power adapter, the power supply is in the PB, however, the Mac Mini, the power supply is external (hence how they could make it soooo small) and I am sure it is heavy.


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 11, 2005)

ScottW said:
			
		

> No... but the PB "brick" is light-weight and just a power adapter, the power supply is in the PB, however, the Mac Mini, the power supply is external (hence how they could make it soooo small) and I am sure it is heavy.


 Possibly doesn't matter, since you can't use the Mac mini on the go anyway.

 i.e. Just keep one brick at home and get another for the office.

 Kap


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## j79 (Jan 11, 2005)

ScottW said:
			
		

> No... but the PB "brick" is light-weight and just a power adapter, the power supply is in the PB, however, the Mac Mini, the power supply is external (hence how they could make it soooo small) and I am sure it is heavy.



Very true.

I own a 20 ACD and the PowerBrick does weigh a bit. Probably about 1 or 2 lbs. 

-- edit -- just saw the power brick for the mini in the 360 virtual on apple's site. thing looks HUGE!

However, the idea of having two stationary monitors and just lugging the Mac Mini back and forth is a cool idea.

I've only had two moments in my life when everything seemed to "slow down" as I watched something horrible happen.
The first was when I was in my first accident... Car parts going here, other parts going there... the idea of driving away flashing through my mind non stop!! 

The other was when I dropped my Pismo. That was a horrible, horrible moment.. saw it just fall out of my bag and land on the left hand front corner. Probably dropped about 4 feet onto concrete. Was *sure* the screen would be cracked. But it wasn't. *whew*

So if I had a choice between lugging around a PowerBook with a screen or a MacMini from work to home, I'd choose the Mac Mini. Assuming that is, if I had no intentions of actually doing any work on the go...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2005)

Looks like the new Mac mini only has 1 RAM upgrade slot (all of the RAM upgrades for the system are "1 DIMM"), and is not considered user-serviceable.

From the "Learn More" link under "Memory" on the Mac mini Apple Store page (when you're custom-configuring the machine):


> Mac mini contains PC2700, 333MHz double data rate, synchronous dynamic random-access memory (DDR-SDRAM), one of the fastest memory technologies available today. Double data rate memory (DDR-SDRAM) provides twice the throughput of single data rate SDRAM and boosts overall system performance. Your Mac mini comes with at least 256 megabytes (MB) of memory. You can select additional memory up to 1 Gigabyte. *You can upgrade your memory later by taking your system to an Apple Authorized Service Provider.*



I wonder if Crucial or some other memory supplier will be able to supply a 2GB DIMM that will fit this machine...


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## drunkmac (Jan 12, 2005)

AHAHAHAHA IM HIGH ON APPLE. ::dives onto Mini Mac:: NEED...LaCie MONITOR....


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## Ripcord (Jan 12, 2005)

Did anyone else notice that Jobs was **much** more enthusiastic about the iPod shuffle than the Mac Mini?

Do they really think the iPod shuffle will be a bigger seller (in terms of profit) and strategic value than the Mac Mini?  Personally, I think the Mini is going to end up being the cornerstone of the entire Apple consumer productset, from music to apps, etc...


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## j79 (Jan 12, 2005)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> Did anyone else notice that Jobs was **much** more enthusiastic about the iPod shuffle than the Mac Mini?
> 
> Do they really think the iPod shuffle will be a bigger seller (in terms of profit) and strategic value than the Mac Mini?  Personally, I think the Mini is going to end up being the cornerstone of the entire Apple consumer productset, from music to apps, etc...



I haven't watched the keynote, but I believe you're right!

Just checking out the responses from other sites (tech and non-tech related sites) and there are a lot of positive things being said!!!

(Bill Palmer, who I mentioned earlier, has finally posted a response to the deluge of emails he must be receiving.. it's hilarious. He has a crazy theory why the Mac mini will fail.. - like, for instance.. a person taking it home and finding out it doesn't have a keyboard!!! C'mon, the things smaller than an iPod box... Personally, I'm disgusted by his attitude..)


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## ScottW (Jan 12, 2005)

Well... as for which is more profitable... my discount program through the Apple Store, offers a discount on almost every product and software through the Apple Store, with the exception of the iPod shuffle. No discount on either model.

Kinda says something.

I think their profit margin is very minimum here. I bet, that Apple hopes to generate soft cash through sales via iTMS, add on features, upgrade to a larger iPod, etc.

I imagine both the iPod shuffle and Mac mini would be termed "loss leaders" for most suppliers, however... I doubt Apple is taking a loss selling these items.

Apple SURPRISED me by offering the 512MB for $99 and the Mac Mini for $499. Normally, they probably wouldn't have sold a 512MB model or a 1.2GHZ G4 Mac under "old thinking". I bet, more than anything... they are looking to see what the market is will to pay.

$149 for 1GB Flash Drive, or $299 (twice the cost) for a 20GB iPod. How many people will pick up "two" 1GB iPods just because they are cheap? Would that same person had put down $299 for a 20GB? Probably not.

It's all in the head... value vs. what is in my hand.

I think this is a very smart decision, and the success of this latest offering will only be a sign of what is to come in the future.


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## symphonix (Jan 12, 2005)

Yeah, I think they're onto a real winner with both the Mac Mini and the iPod Shuffle. I'm a well-paid compuer-savvy Apple fanatic and even I tend to shiver a bit at the price for the iPod mini, but the iPod shuffle is pocket money.

I was just thinking of how many uses these Mac minis will be put to:
- *As a web server:* Who wouldn't want to run their web site from their own server, rather than paying for hosting? Who would mind tucking a reliable Unix based server into a cupboard or behind the stereo that has no fans, and will only generate a little noise from the hard drive when its busy?
- *As a games machine:* I know some people are already criticising the graphic set, what they forget is that it is equivalent to the graphics on both the XBox and PS2, and is certainly up to the task for all sorts of games, from Halo to UT2004. With a USB or BlueTooth gamepad, it'd be sweeter than either of those machines.
- *As a firewall, mail server or file server for small networks:* Perfect for small networks of up to 50 users. Trouble free, compact enough to fit anywhere, and Unix based.


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## Giaguara (Jan 12, 2005)

i'd enjoy having one .. not that i'd need but just enjoy. 
so i want to take one apart, replace the combo with optical drive, the hard drive with a bigger one, then paint the case with some bright color or make it transparent ... i think that owuld look lovely in bright yellow or red or black ... 
or then stuck a pile of them on top of each other, to have a mac mini raid..


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 12, 2005)

Did anyone wonder if the Mac mini gonna support tigers 'Core Image'? Didn't this feature require at least 64mb graphic cards? It would be stupid to buy a Mac mini now and upgrade to tiger without the support of some nice features..


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## smithy (Jan 12, 2005)

Will this meen my eMac won't support Core Image with tiger !? I don't think i can upgrade my graphics at all in emacs (i think the 32mb vram stuff) but you can't put a graphics card into a pci slot can you ... ?? don't think so ..


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2005)

The eMac's graphics card is non-upgradable.

The Mac mini's memory being 'servicable at a service center' probably means users _can_ do it themselves. Some site out there will find the way to open the box cleanly, and then everything will be easy. Harddrive, memory, optical drive, AirPort card.

I'll get mine with BT/AirPort from Apple and add RAM and a bigger drive myself.


----------



## banky (Jan 12, 2005)

I've ordered a MacMini with 512mg RAM, basically I have a TiBook which is couple of years old and i do a lot of freelance illustration using Illustrator and Photoshop. Also use it for internet, mail, iLife so the MacMini is a perfect back up solution just in case. The processor is faster than my PowerBook and I think 512mg RAM will enough for my purposes. I have a 17" studio display and keyboard and mouse so this machine is spot on for me, thanks apple!


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## andychrist (Jan 12, 2005)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Did anyone wonder if the Mac mini gonna support tigers 'Core Image'? Didn't this feature require at least 64mb graphic cards? It would be stupid to buy a Mac mini now and upgrade to tiger without the support of some nice features..



Zammy, where did you get that 64 Mb minimum?, I can't find any reference to that.  I got the impression from Apple's description that Core Image would actually make more efficient use of the GPU:


The Power of the GPU

Todays video cards feature graphics processing units, or GPUs, that process an amazing amount of data  more than 6 billion pixels per second. This performance continues to grow at an amazing rate, doubling every six months.

Until now, harnessing the power of the GPU required in-depth knowledge of pixel-level programming. Core Image allows developers to easily leverage these programmable GPUs for blistering-fast image processing that can eliminate rendering time delays. Effects and transitions can be expressed with a few lines of code. Core Image handles the rest, optimizing the path to the GPU. The result is real-time, interactive responsiveness as you select and apply filters.

For computers without a programmable GPU, Core Image dynamically optimizes for the CPU, automatically tuning for Velocity Engine and multiple processors as appropriate.

From Core Image


----------



## Randman (Jan 12, 2005)

Zammy's correct. The Mac mini, like the iBooks, won't be able to handle all of the eyecandy requirements for Tiger.


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## lnoelstorr (Jan 12, 2005)

Theres a huge buzz about this on another forum I go to, a number of people are thinking of getting one of these and a KVM to use it along side their PC.  I doubt it'll take long before they "switch".


Thinking about it, Apple should sell these _with_ a KVM!


----------



## Viro (Jan 12, 2005)

Randman said:
			
		

> Zammy's correct. The Mac mini, like the iBooks, won't be able to handle all of the eyecandy requirements for Tiger.



There used to be a list by the side of the Core Image features listing the supported GPUs. The Radeon 9200 wasn't on the list. However, now that they've removed that list, it makes me wonder if the Radeon 9200 is supported after all.

Reason for speculation? The Radeon 9200 is based on the RV280 core, which supports pixel shaders v1.4 and vertex shaders v1.1 (source). There's no reason other than marketing/politics that prevent the Radeon 8xxx (not the 7500) series and up from supporting Core Image.

Even if it isn't fully supported, all isn't lost. Stuff still will get emulated via Altivec if present (not so slow) or just by normal CPU instructions (very slow). We'll just have to wait and see. But I'm optimistic that the Radeon will be supported.

Update:
Found the list of supported video cards here. Looks like the list of cards are those that support pixel shader and vertex shaders v2.0 (these support more instructions and longer shader programs). Radeon 9200 may not be _fully_ supported, but may still support _some_ effects in hardware. The rest will be done by the CPU. This is reminiscent of the old Quartz vs Quartz Extreme issue.


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## soulseek (Jan 12, 2005)

its perfectly logical that the profit margins on iPod Shuffle are minimal.
its the only iPod that is cheaper than its competitors at the same range....

most 100dollar flash mp3 players come with 256 mb... of course they do have a screen....but i think the concept of shuffle and iTunes more than make up for it...

its only a shame this iPod wasnt released 6 months earlier...

but even now... i can see the iPod reaching 20 million shipments in 2005   
it would probably put the sonly walkman to shame  probably will make its way into the Guiness Book of Records


----------



## soulseek (Jan 12, 2005)

what really impresses me is that for the first time in years... apple offers competitive prices in Europe as well 

i will reward them


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## bookem (Jan 12, 2005)

soulseek said:
			
		

> what really impresses me is that for the first time in years... apple offers competitive prices in Europe as well
> 
> i will reward them




Yeah, hardly worth thinking about importing one from the US or Asia.

All my colleagues are PC users, but they've all heard about the mini, and most are thinking about getting one because the prices are so good.


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## andychrist (Jan 12, 2005)

Thanks Viro, just found that list too.

Still get the impression that Core Image is more of a developer's tool than a must-have for certain graphic performance, like Open GL/Quartz Extreme, unless it is targeted mainly at gaming?  In which case I can see why the mini wouldn't need to support it.


----------



## karavite (Jan 12, 2005)

Not sure if this was covered before, but as soon as I saw the mini it reawakened my desire to have a little file server here at home, just for kicks. Seems like it would be the perfect little computer for such a thing - no? Maybe? On this same line, how would one run the mini "remotely" from my another Mac - I want to avoid getting another monitor/keyboard... and/or using monitor/keyboard switch boxes.


----------



## Randman (Jan 12, 2005)

Firewire cable, ethernet cable, Airport.


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2005)

I know that!  - just never ran a mac remotely before and don't know how it is done. I'll search or post on the sw forum.


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## bookem (Jan 12, 2005)

karavite said:
			
		

> Not sure if this was covered before, but as soon as I saw the mini it reawakened my desire to have a little file server here at home, just for kicks. Seems like it would be the perfect little computer for such a thing - no? Maybe? On this same line, how would one run the mini "remotely" from my another Mac - I want to avoid getting another monitor/keyboard... and/or using monitor/keyboard switch boxes.




Would be the perfect Mac, but you'd have to look into Remote Desktop or something similar.  I'd want one for exactly that, and another one for a media center type thing.


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## blue&whiteman (Jan 12, 2005)

I bet this mac mini will increase apples market share at least a full 1% within 6 months.


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## Captain Code (Jan 12, 2005)

andychrist said:
			
		

> Thanks Viro, just found that list too.
> 
> Still get the impression that Core Image is more of a developer's tool than a must-have for certain graphic performance, like Open GL/Quartz Extreme, unless it is targeted mainly at gaming?  In which case I can see why the mini wouldn't need to support it.



The min vid card use to be a Radeon 9600, but they have changed the Tiger pages around a lot since yesterday.

CoreVideo will be used by Quicktime 7 to do the live resizing and if you watched the keynote, you can see that they have changed how Quicktime goes to full screen.  It live zooms the video to the full screen instead of fading black and then fading in the video. 

All the effects in the Dashboard such as rotating widgets and the ripple effects are also going to require a good video card.  That has more to do with Quartz 2D Extreme though I think.

So, someone get one, install Tiger and tell us if it all works!


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## chadwick (Jan 12, 2005)

My main reason for wanting the video to have 64MB of RAM would be for World of Warcraft  I play it now on my gaming PC, and surprisingly the frame rate there isn't too much more than my 12" iBook, but you can definitely tell when the video card is swapping in textures to its limited RAM space.

But that's okay; the PC will stay around for the games anyway.


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## brianleahy (Jan 12, 2005)

They ought to get Verne "Mini-me" Troyer back to promote the Mac Mini...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 12, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> The eMac's graphics card is non-upgradable.
> 
> The Mac mini's memory being 'servicable at a service center' probably means users _can_ do it themselves. Some site out there will find the way to open the box cleanly, and then everything will be easy. Harddrive, memory, optical drive, AirPort card.
> 
> I'll get mine with BT/AirPort from Apple and add RAM and a bigger drive myself.



Just foud this on MacInTouch:



> The only significant issue we see so far is its use of a 2.5-inch hard drive, which limits disk performance to laptop levels, but a full analysis will take more time.


One RAM slot and a 2.5" hard drive... so that's how they got it all to fit in that little box!  It may be more pricey to upgrade the hard drive than we thought -- thank goodness for the firewire port!


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## Viro (Jan 12, 2005)

Dr. Evil and Mini-me. what a cool idea


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## Jeffo (Jan 12, 2005)

I will get one .... as soon as i decide if i want the ipod first or not, but i will have one.


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## mindbend (Jan 12, 2005)

I will somewhat disagree with symphonix's thoughts about it being usable as a gaming machine. Maybe as an afterthought or for older games or the casual gamer, but the last thing I would call the Mac Mini is a gaming box. Any cheap PC with a decent graphics card would probably crush the Mac mini much as I hate to say it.

That's not to say it doesn't have great value. It absolutely does, including the other things symphonix mentioned.

This Mac mini has the wonderful magic of being so cool that many people seem to want one, who really don't even need one. Like me. It's price point is so reasonable that people are fabricating uses just for the heck of it. I'm thinking centralized family computer and music controller.

Can't wait for the day when they have a high end pro version of the Mac mini. As it is right now, it's almost as good as my 1 GHZ dual G4 tower, which is a space hog and noise machine. Still holding out for that 3 GHZ G5


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 12, 2005)

brianleahy said:
			
		

> They ought to get Verne "Mini-me" Troyer back to promote the Mac Mini...


  :rofl:

   And that Chinese basketball player (he was the one actually using the 12" PB).

   My image of how this would work:

 Mini me and basket ball player get back to their respective homes after the plane trip (wheeling in luggage at the front door).

   Mini me sits down to his G5 with 30" cinema display.

   Basketball player sits down to his Mac mini (with a 20" display?)

   Kap


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## Captain Code (Jan 12, 2005)

brianleahy said:
			
		

> They ought to get Verne "Mini-me" Troyer back to promote the Mac Mini...



I hear he's busy running around naked on The Surreal Life.


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## CalSD (Jan 12, 2005)

RGrphc2 said:
			
		

> is it just me or does anyone find it creepy that basically that the MacMini costs less than the iPodPhoto?   ::ha::
> 
> I was hoping for price drops in the iPod line -
> $99 iPod Shuffle
> ...



I think we will get there with your $199 iPod Mini pricing. Remember the rumors that were not announced Tuesday? 5Gb iPod Mini with $199 price!


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## Ceroc Addict (Jan 12, 2005)

Interesting realisation:

   A Mac mini is a great way to split up your Mac G5 purchase.

   i.e. You want to get a G5 + 23" Cinema Display, but you can't afford both.

   But you *can* get a Mac mini + 23" Cinema Display and hold off on the G5 for a while, which is what I'm currently considering. 

   Kap


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## karavite (Jan 13, 2005)

You know, I can't believe I didn't think of this. My mom has an old Cube, but isn't too keen about spending big bucks on a new Mac. eMac didn't cut it because she likes her current monitor. The Mac Mini is the PERFECT new computer for her. I think I just sold a Mini!


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## Arden (Jan 14, 2005)

I like these poll results.  But who are the 3 people asking for a lynching from a large part of the Mac community?   (Didn't read the whole thread... too many posts!)


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## barry505 (Jan 15, 2005)

I just ordered one: the 1.42 gHz model. I use Windows XP mainly, but always have a Mac around to play with. I'm also getting a Trendnet usb KVM switch so I can switch between the mini and my XP box.

Anybody want to buy a beige G3 Powermac?


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 16, 2005)

chadwick said:
			
		

> Well, as usual they do add up qiuck. For the 1.42GHz version with 512MB RAM, a SuperDrive, and the Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme add-ons, $903 US.



Never buy RAM from Apple.  Unless they dropped RAM prices to match other online stores.


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## andychrist (Jan 16, 2005)

Actually in the case of a 512 MB Mac mini upgrade it pays to get it pre-installed from Apple for just an extra $75.  It's the one gig Apple upgrade that will really kill you-- $425!!!


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## anerki (Jan 16, 2005)

Prices still seems a bit high in Belgium, 519 Euros. That makes for 679 USD. Hmm, not too convinced on the fairness of that (I got the latest conversion 1 EUR = 1.31014 USD from xe.com).

Edit: Oh, in case somebody's wondering, I'm one of the people that voted flop. The lack of a decent video card makes this machine useless. No S-Video Out either. Inability to replace any kind of card and the lack of PCI/AGP slots make this box a total flop for me. I've always bought Powermacs next to Powerbooks cause the Powerbook will just get less powerful given time. The Powermac can be upgraded (for now I have upgraded the CPU, the GCard, the RAM, the HDs, 3 PCI-cards (I use ImageWriters, SCSI-scanner and a second Network card). If you want something small and low-powered, get an iBook for a bit more. If you want something decent, get a Powermac. Imho.

I figured I would buy this box as a DVD player then again I figured I already used my Powerbook for it so ...


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## Randman (Jan 16, 2005)

Just because it doesn't fit your current needs doesn't mean it's a flop.


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## fryke (Jan 16, 2005)

Or a more extensive answer... 

Imagine you buy a Mac mini now. Say the 1.42 GHz model. You also buy a decent display and keyboard and mouse. When the machine gets 'slow', as you're putting it, you can simply replace the Mac mini (and give the old one to family, friends or a buyer...) with a newer one, which'll still be cheap enough. With the iMac, for example, you can't. And the iMac isn't sooooooo much more powerful, you see. At least not over time. And much more expensive to replace, since you'll have to also get a new display.

The PowerMac's not the right comparison, you see, since it's more powerful, more upgradeable and more expensive. You get more, but you also pay more. However: The mini _will_ probably eat into the iMac's market for the reasons in the second paragraph.


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## Randman (Jan 16, 2005)

The iMac is still G5, even if it needs a better video card. Now, talk about the eMac. This could mean the eol for the eMac line.


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## anerki (Jan 16, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Imagine you buy a Mac mini now. Say the 1.42 GHz model. You also buy a decent display and keyboard and mouse. When the machine gets 'slow', as you're putting it, you can simply replace the Mac mini (and give the old one to family, friends or a buyer...) with a newer one, which'll still be cheap enough. With the iMac, for example, you can't. And the iMac isn't sooooooo much more powerful, you see. At least not over time. And much more expensive to replace, since you'll have to also get a new display.



Very true, but I for one don't see the point of buying 3 Mac Mini's where one G5 would suffice, and even give you over double the amount of power. Given the complicated architecture of the Mini I doubt we'll be seeing upgrades fast enough for this to work. And at what price would you sell your old one when the new one is also 500 USD ...

For users who don't need a lot of power, this machine is great, especially if you find the new iMac design too bulky and want a cheap machine with a seperate screen.

Come to think of it I might buy one and sell it after 2 months for 2/3 the price. Which will mean I rented the machine for 2 months at 300 dollars .



			
				fryke said:
			
		

> The PowerMac's not the right comparison, you see, since it's more powerful, more upgradeable and more expensive. You get more, but you also pay more. However: The mini _will_ probably eat into the iMac's market for the reasons in the second paragraph.



In the long term, buying one G5 is as expensive as buying a 3 Minis, roughly. And after 3 Minis the G5 will most likely still be the more powerful one. Comparison seems valid since, in the long range, you pay the same, and get less of a machine. All you do is try to close the gap but the Powermac will stay more powerful. Not even to mention you can upgrade the G5 to make it even more powerful, for less money than a Mini.

Edit: 


			
				Randman said:
			
		

> Just because it doesn't fit your current needs doesn't mean it's a flop.



For me, it most definitely is. I'm not saying it won't be a success though, if you want an overpriced design miniserver with a slow HD to stick behind a closet, this is what you want.


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## symphonix (Jan 16, 2005)

anerki said:
			
		

> The lack of a decent video card makes this machine useless. No S-Video Out either. Inability to replace any kind of card and the lack of PCI/AGP slots make this box a total flop for me.



First of all, there _is_ an S-Video out adapter for the Mac Mini (its the same one used for the DVI ports on PowerMac and PowerBook.

Secondly, a few people have commented that the video card is not "decent". At the same time, its graphic set is comparable to the graphic set of the PS2 and better than the graphic chip used in the XBox, both of which are considered by thousands of buyers around the world to be "decent" machines.

As for AGP or PCI, who do you think will buy the Mac mini? Game clanners, creative professionals, power users and so on are all going to look at higher-end computers. This is for that part of the market that actually wants to get something useful and powerful for a very small price.

I think USB and Firewire add-ons offer enough expansion options in this day and age. If you need multiple audio inputs, surround sound or anything like that you'd get it as an external component, making it easier and cheaper to fit them onto other machines later on. With PCI components, there is a pretty good chance that these will not be supported by your next machine, and will simply be money wasted.

Just adding PCI and AGP slots would double the size of the machine and triple the cost, and would only be an advantage to maybe 5% of the users for whom this was designed. Enough said.


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## anerki (Jan 16, 2005)

symphonix said:
			
		

> First of all, there _is_ an S-Video out adapter for the Mac Mini (its the same one used for the DVI ports on PowerMac and PowerBook.


Ah, didn't know that, I always assumed it wasn't compatible, ADC connection being something of the odd one among connections, and that a S-Video was something special in the way data was transported. I have an S-Video on my Powerbook, so I don't have that adapter ...



> Secondly, a few people have commented that the video card is not "decent". At the same time, its graphic set is comparable to the graphic set of the PS2 and better than the graphic chip used in the XBox, both of which are considered by thousands of buyers around the world to be "decent" machines.


You call the graphics on a PS2 or an XBox decent? Compare them to any PC/Mac with a decent graphics card and I can assure you the graphics are seriously lacking.



> As for AGP or PCI, who do you think will buy the Mac mini? Game clanners, creative professionals, power users and so on are all going to look at higher-end computers. This is for that part of the market that actually wants to get something useful and powerful for a very small price.


There are no non-power users in Belgium who use Mac. Or close to none. Contrary to perhaps the US, market share of Apple in Belgium is pathetic. I've been able to subvert all of my close friends to Macintosh just by showing them how my Powerbook is, after over 2 years of service. Still, all those users know what a Mac is and does, and most use it semi-professionally (Final Cut Pro and the likes mostly). One of the reasons for this is that there is no (none, nada) Apple advertisment in Belgium. No, not even for the iPod (tho that sells like chocolate).



> I think USB and Firewire add-ons offer enough expansion options in this day and age. If you need multiple audio inputs, surround sound or anything like that you'd get it as an external component, making it easier and cheaper to fit them onto other machines later on. With PCI components, there is a pretty good chance that these will not be supported by your next machine, and will simply be money wasted.
> 
> Just adding PCI and AGP slots would double the size of the machine and triple the cost, and would only be an advantage to maybe 5% of the users for whom this was designed. Enough said.


Very true.


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## Cat (Jan 16, 2005)

> One of the reasons for this is that there is no (none, nada) Apple advertisment in Belgium. No, not even for the iPod (tho that sells like chocolate).


 Although the Belgian edition of Metro (free daily newspaper) carried the Mac mini introduction on its front page when it was released and had a longer article the day after in the tech section ...


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## anerki (Jan 16, 2005)

Yes, and the fact that there's one store in Ghent (that sells Apple), thought a lot that sell iPods. And that only this one store sells Apple software, and a pathetic, truly pathetic selection at that shows how big the market is for that.

Of course then again I had to wait 3 months for my Powerbook to arrive just because I wanted a QWERTY keyboard (shows how good support here is too, at least was).


----------



## Oscar Castillo (Jan 16, 2005)

anerki said:
			
		

> Come to think of it I might buy one and sell it after 2 months for 2/3 the price. Which will mean I rented the machine for 2 months at 300 dollars .



Isn't that 2 months at 166US?


----------



## anerki (Jan 16, 2005)

Oscar Castillo said:
			
		

> Isn't that 2 months at 166US?


Ok, I was off by a couple. 266.655 USD to be exact. Did the calculation for me, that means in Euros with the prices from the Belgian Apple Store. The exchange rate currently is 1 EUR = 1.31014 USD or 1 USD = 0.763275 EUR.


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 16, 2005)

anerki said:
			
		

> Ok, I was off by a couple. 266.655 USD to be exact. Did the calculation for me, that means in Euros with the prices from the Belgian Apple Store. The exchange rate currently is 1 EUR = 1.31014 USD or 1 USD = 0.763275 EUR.


126EUR isn't so bad, but considering it's only been 2 months to lose 1/3 the value is tough.  Personally for what I want a Mini, it's cheap and fast enough to have in the bedroom and living room so I can stream music and video from my server instead of getting one of those awful media sharing devices from Linksys and others.


----------



## fryke (Jan 16, 2005)

I still don't get people who compare the mini to PM G5s and their graphics cards etc... A few months ago, the ATi Radeon 9200 was still pretty much 'good enough', and even if you're a pro (pro what? that depends, you know...), the Mac mini today is still a better machine than, say, a QuickSilver G4 with 733 MHz and some very old ATi or nVidia graphics card.
So for all of those professionals who're still (happily) using those G4 towers, the Mac mini brings more power as well as much less noise at a _very_ good price point. And upgrading to a newer Mac mini in, say, two years is much less expensive than upgrading to a G5 now (which'll be 'old' in two years, too!) and to some G6 in two years.

So what I wanted to say was that compared to an iMac, the Mac mini can be very cost effective because of the screen. If you've followed the benchmarks of the iMac G5, you'd have seen that it doesn't exactly leave the PowerBooks in the dust, and AFAIK those PowerBooks have about the power of a Mac mini (besides the graphics card). And the small performance gain an iMac G5 might have now over a Mac mini will be negligible in two years, when upgrading to a new iMac will probably still involve getting also a new monitor (unnecessary with the Mac mini) and be much more expensive...

Btw. the question of the poll wasn't meant as a _personal_, subjective question. Rather, I wanted to know whether people thought it'd be a market success. Maybe I should have outlined that better...


----------



## Oscar Castillo (Jan 16, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> I still don't get people who compare the mini to PM G5s and their graphics cards etc...



It always seems to be that way.  If someone needs the power of the G5, they should get it.  I know the Mac Mini isn't a the best performer, but it would be the fastest G4 I've ever had.  And I started out with a Graphite 400, Quicksilver 800, and MDD Dual 867 before I bought the G5 so a 1.25 or 1.42 G4 should be a very decent system for most.  And as for the graphics card, few people even on the PC spend the bucks for a true gaming card like 6800GT or Ultra and just end up buying some lower end spec of the same family.
The Mini is going to be plenty good for me as a media client so my media server doesn't have to sit alongside my home theatre.


----------



## anerki (Jan 17, 2005)

Oh ... in that case a commercial success, come on, it's cheaper than the most expensive iPod!


----------



## Ceroc Addict (Jan 17, 2005)

I've almost certainly convinced myself to get a Mac mini.  Here's what I intend to do with it:




I'll transfer all my audio content (music, audible books, podcasts, etc) to it. That'll free up 10GB or so on my Powerbook's hard drive.
It'll also give me a convenient way to transfer music to my iPod shuffle (my PB only comes with USB1.1 ports)
I'll get a Griffin RadioShark and leave it recording radio programs on the Mac mini throughout the day. I might get an EyeTV as well.
I'll connect it to my Powerbook either via ethernet or wireless (and get an AirPort Express), when I'm at home, so I can use Xgrid to take advantage of the extra processor
Kap


----------



## Arden (Jan 17, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Btw. the question of the poll wasn't meant as a _personal_, subjective question. Rather, I wanted to know whether people thought it'd be a market success. Maybe I should have outlined that better...


Recall a Macworld Expo twelve moons into history, when Apple introduced another product named mini.  Recall the beratement it received from many (including yours truly) about the price vs. what it offered.  Recall sales statistics from Apple throughout these twelve moons, showing the mini outselling the full-sized brethren.  Grasshopper will do well to assume a similar circumstance for the fledgling mini.


----------



## fryke (Jan 17, 2005)

Hmm... I myself said the iPod mini would be a huge success... Dunno what you remember.


----------



## Ceroc Addict (Jan 17, 2005)

Arden said:
			
		

> Recall a Macworld Expo twelve moons into history, when Apple introduced another product named mini. Recall the beratement it received from many (including yours truly) about the price vs. what it offered. Recall sales statistics from Apple throughout these twelve moons, showing the mini outselling the full-sized brethren. Grasshopper will do well to assume a similar circumstance for the fledgling mini.


  It'll be an interesting comparison a year from now.

  From my memory, the only reason that the iPod mini was put down was that most people thought it was too expensive.

 I haven't heard anyone say the Mac mini is too expensive. Plus, in less than 6 months from now, it should come with Tiger installed. 

  Kap


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## Arden (Jan 17, 2005)

Of course, the rumor mills said the iPod mini would be anywhere from $100-200, so when Apple actually introduced it at $250, it was halfway between what people expected it to be and what they already could get.  This time around, the Mac mini was rumored to be priced at $500, which turned out completely true.

Fryke:  Good call.  Note, I didn't say everyone, I just said many (including myself).  And no, my foot doesn't taste that great.


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## Ripcord (Jan 17, 2005)

Hmmm...  What we really need is some good, cheap, "Media Center" software and a compatible remote to turn the thing into a video/music player attached to the TV...


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## Captain Code (Jan 17, 2005)

Hopefully once Tiger comes, people can use CoreVideo to decode the MPEG2.  That seems to be the biggest problem now is that you don't have hardware acceleration of the decoding so it's quite slow and you need a pretty fast G5 to do it.


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## Darkshadow (Jan 17, 2005)

Arden said:
			
		

> Recall a Macworld Expo twelve moons into history, when Apple introduced another product named mini.



Just to be pedantic, there's 13 full moons in a year. 

I think the Mac minis are going to make a killing in sales.


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## andychrist (Jan 18, 2005)

Darkshadow said:
			
		

> Just to be pedantic, there's 13 full moons in a year.



No, only rarely are there 13 full moons in a year, thus the phrase "a year of thirteen moons" as in that Fassbinder movie.

But yeah, the new minis are already flying off the shelf... and they're not even on the shelf yet!


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## Randman (Jan 18, 2005)

Technically, there's a moon every night of the year, just that its visibility from Earth varies. ::ha::

With the drop in keyboard prices being a nice touch, I still wish Apple would offer a lower-priced monitor. Why kill the 17s?


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## Ripcord (Jan 18, 2005)

Do we know for sure whether the RAM will or won't be user-installable?

If not, I'm not sure how people will react to having to add $425 to bring the RAM to 1GB.

I'm worried that many people will buy the system thinking that 256MB is "enough" for general home use.  Personally, I just went through a day of 256MB and found it unusable.  My system is slow enough to start with (it's a 1.8Ghz G5, for cripe's sake, but the iMacs appear to be especially slow for some reason), but at 256MB it's swapping *constantly*, even with just Mail and Firefox open, which makes it drag terribly.  If so, I'm afraid people will get a feeling that OS X and the Mac platform is just plain slow.


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## Randman (Jan 18, 2005)

Never buy ram from Apple.


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## andychrist (Jan 18, 2005)

"Memory, AirPort Extreme and internal Bluetooth upgrades must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider; fees may apply."

I completely agree with you Ripcord; but at least the 512 MB RAM upgrade is only $75 and may be enough for most users of this machine.  Time will tell...

Wonder if this is Apple's scheme: making the miniMac super-attractive on the low-end side, but too expensive to compete with even the eMac for any heavy lifting requiring over 512 MB.


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## mindbend (Jan 18, 2005)

I agree on the RAM thing. You hear a lot of novice users of both platforms complain of performance, only to find out they're running with minimal RAM. I really think Apple needs to do whatever they can to get 512 in their systems out of the box.


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## Arden (Jan 19, 2005)

Randman said:
			
		

> Technically, there's a moon every night of the year, just that its visibility from Earth varies. ::ha::
> 
> With the drop in keyboard prices being a nice touch, I still wish Apple would offer a lower-priced monitor. Why kill the 17s?


 Yarr, take me joke to the extreme, will ye? irate:

A 17", 4:3 aspect ratio aluminum Apple display would be awesome.  Especially if they priced it at, oh, $499.


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## Ripcord (Jan 20, 2005)

Randman said:
			
		

> Never buy ram from Apple.



Presumably in this case we have no choice without voiding the warranty.


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## Randman (Jan 20, 2005)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> Presumably in this case we have no choice without voiding the warranty.


Wrong.


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## Decado (Jan 20, 2005)

Originally Posted by Randman
"wrong"

gotta love the elaborated answer


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## Randman (Jan 20, 2005)

Did it need elaboration? OK. You can add your own ram in a mini or any new Mac without voiding any warranty.


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## Decado (Jan 20, 2005)

ok. 
i had a mac once where it was clearly statd in the manual that if i so much as loosened any screw the warranty would be voided.
granted that was a macintosh Plus so things may have changed. 
but i though this "not voiding the garranty" only applied to those machines (like most new macintoshes except the mini) that had instructions in the manual how to change the memory and had an easy way (like a hatch or something) to access the above mentioned.


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## andychrist (Jan 20, 2005)

Randman said:
			
		

> You can add your own ram in a mini or any new Mac without voiding any warranty.



Where can one find that info at Apple?

Footnote #5 on the miniMac Technical Specifications page states:

Memory, AirPort Extreme and internal Bluetooth upgrades *must* be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider; fees may apply.

And from the Warranty page:

This warranty does not apply: (d) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider

Some how I can't imagine Apple allowing customers to open the mini with a rusty putty knife... but I would love to wrong on this one!


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## Captain Code (Jan 20, 2005)

The Mac mini includes a video card with dedicated memory, and you can upgrade the Mac minis RAM to 1GBcontrary to rumors around the Internet, Apple has told Macworld that you can even do it yourself without voiding your warranty unless you break something when you open it.

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandoranges/index.php


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## andychrist (Jan 20, 2005)

In other words, you won't void your warranty as long as you don't damage the mini by performing an upgrade.  Still, some how "Apple has told Macworld" does not carry the same weight of authority to me as what Apple posts on their own site.  The real "rumor" seems to be that you actually are allowed to upgrade the mini yourself without voiding the warranty.

Still I'd like to see a video on changing the RAM and stuff.   Because the question remains how easy it would be to perform any upgrades on the mini by yourself without actually breaking anything.


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## Captain Code (Jan 20, 2005)

I guess it depends on what that part they are prying at in the video is made of.  If it's metal then you shouldn't be able to damage it without a lot of force. While if it's plastic then it would be easy to make a little nick in it if you weren't careful.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 20, 2005)

I heard that as long as the _insides_ of the Mac mini aren't damaged (ie, logic board, memory clips, etc.) then it's under warranty.  Opening it -- and damaging the case slightly during the opening process -- should not void the warranty.

It's like if you got a new G5, then amde gouges in the side of the auminum case, then the graphics card went bad -- it would still be covered under warranty, no matter the condition of the case.


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## Ripcord (Jan 20, 2005)

andychrist said:
			
		

> In other words, you won't void your warranty as long as you don't damage the mini by performing an upgrade.



Hmmm.  The warranty info doesn't actually state this.  It does *sort of* imply it, but I've never seen "sort of implied" hold up in a warranty agreement.  The "memory...upgrades must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service..." would appear to explicitly state that RAM is not user-upgradable.


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## Ripcord (Jan 20, 2005)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> The Mac mini includes a video card with dedicated memory, and you can upgrade the Mac minis RAM to 1GBcontrary to rumors around the Internet, Apple has told Macworld that you can even do it yourself without voiding your warranty unless you break something when you open it.



This, however, is much more convincing.  Weird that Apple doesn't seem to make this more clear on their website?


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## fryke (Jan 20, 2005)

They quite clearly want customers to go back to the Apple Stores as OFTEN as possible. Install some more RAM? We'll do it in five minutes, just take a look at those new iPods over there. And we have iWork, too, you know... 

But yes, it seems that you _can_ install RAM without voiding the warranty. Just don't start hitting the processor with a screwdriver or something. I'm getting my Mac mini from a supplier in Switzerland that has less expensive (good) RAM and get 512 MB (as well as the BT/WiFi thing) installed from the beginning, so I won't _have_ to open mine.


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## MBHockey (Jan 20, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> They quite clearly want customers to go back to the Apple Stores as OFTEN as possible. Install some more RAM? We'll do it in five minutes, just take a look at those new iPods over there. And we have iWork, too, you know...




Good point.


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## anerki (Jan 21, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> But yes, it seems that you _can_ install RAM without voiding the warranty. Just don't start hitting the processor with a screwdriver or something. I'm getting my Mac mini from a supplier in Switzerland that has less expensive (good) RAM and get 512 MB (as well as the BT/WiFi thing) installed from the beginning, so I won't _have_ to open mine.



That still leaves the HD you're going to replace yourself


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## Ripcord (Jan 25, 2005)

I was in the Apple store today, where several people told me that RAM was *not* user-installable on the Minis, and that Apple required an "authorized service representative" (i.e. the store) to install RAM...  Are they just incorrect, or is this the policy??


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## ylon (Jan 25, 2005)

It was pretty easy to replace the RAM in my new Mac mini today...  Getting case off at first was a little unnerving, but the beveled putty knife seems to work alright.


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## ylon (Jan 25, 2005)

By the way, anyone having problems with the new Mac mini and certain network switches and or routers?  Seems we may be having a problem with a Netgear unit and the Mac mini at the moment, very troublesome...  Can't get over, it seems, a 10mb link even after setting it manually, at least that's what the transfer speeds are like.


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## blue&whiteman (Jan 25, 2005)

ylon said:
			
		

> By the way, anyone having problems with the new Mac mini and certain network switches and or routers?  Seems we may be having a problem with a Netgear unit and the Mac mini at the moment, very troublesome...  Can't get over, it seems, a 10mb link even after setting it manually, at least that's what the transfer speeds are like.



is your router/switch up to date with current firmware?


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## Ripcord (Jan 25, 2005)

ylon said:
			
		

> It was pretty easy to replace the RAM in my new Mac mini today...  Getting case off at first was a little unnerving, but the beveled putty knife seems to work alright.



Putty knife???  Yikes...


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## Arden (Jan 26, 2005)

Ripcord, haven't you seen the movie of how to open up the case?  You have to use a putty knife (or something similar, I imagine) to pry the case apart, though it doesn't seem to give too much resistance.


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## anerki (Jan 26, 2005)

Arden said:
			
		

> Ripcord, haven't you seen the movie of how to open up the case?  You have to use a putty knife (or something similar, I imagine) to pry the case apart, though it doesn't seem to give too much resistance.


Other possible tools in clude a chainsaw, a big mace, a refridgerator, a sixpack and two shiny gold christmas balls.


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## pds (Jan 26, 2005)

See the service manual that BobW posted - You have to sharpen the putty knife.


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## ylon (Jan 26, 2005)

Yes, everything is up to date on that router/switch.


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## Robn Kester (Mar 7, 2005)

Love my 1.42 mini so far! Have a 1gig stick on order. Going to also order a Pioneer DVR-K04L to put in it too, as I got the 256m/Combo version. (it was a gift so I had no choice)

Otherworld Computing has some nice video of them opening the Mini, worth checking out if you are going to do a RAM/HD/DVD update yourself.


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## riccbhard (Mar 9, 2005)

Just got my Mac Mini not too long ago. It rocks!

See Specs in my signature (yes I know the ram needs upgrading.)


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## pds (Mar 10, 2005)

I just finished setting up our new 1.42 mini. We traded in the family eMac 700. Oooh yess! nice little unit. A gig stick is on it's way too.

I bought a 17 inch ViewSonic, black with silver faceplate. It looks very nice in the study corner and it is soo nice to not have the noise of the eMac!

Funny thing is that on that monitor, the brushed metal fits nicely. I may just leave Safari with it.


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## HateEternal (Mar 10, 2005)

We got a Mini to test for a while where I work. I have to admin, even though it isn't the fastest thing I want one... so small and sweet.

Of course the 20inch display is awesome as well....


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