# Virus protection? Come On!



## xaqintosh (Jul 18, 2002)

Bundling McAffee anything with .mac and _charging_ for it is just absurd. Macs don't _get_ virii. this is a *joke*.

I get about 10 virii a week in my email account, except they are ALL windows virii, and would just be garbled mtext on my computer. rather than doing this, couldn't they lower the price of .mac or something? or maybe offer each individual service by itself along with a package deal. I don't know...


NOTE: sorry if this rant is somewhat rude or obnoxious, that's not usually my style.


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## Androo (Jul 18, 2002)

Yeah, whenever mac peepz get a mac virus in their email they don't download it. This brings everything to that thread taht mac users are smarter than pc users. The smart pc users are the ones that switch to mac.
Whenever i get a windows virus, i kno it is one right away. I once downloaded one, opened it, and it said it could not be opened, but a program called Virtual PC could. I have virtual pc, and it isn't that good. Sure it's fast and all, but it sucks when playing games. It won't find your video card. That is why Virus protection for mac os x is the equivalent to sh*t.
Thank you,
Andrew.


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 18, 2002)

xaqintosh,

I was bold enough to point this out to Apple on their .Mac feedback page.  In September, my .Mac account will fade into oblivion.....

I also told Apple that 100MB of disk space with a *56K Connection* is just plain stupid.  I rarely use my 20MB now because it's *SO SLOW*.  Apple has such a low market share that it isn't worth any hacker's time to create a virus for Macs because so few people own them, well except..eh hem...for the educated (recent article in the news).  For $100/year I can go out and buy cheap CD's to safely burn my data to virus free, of course.  If I want to host a web page, I'll get cable access, my own domain name (~$20/year I think) and leave my computer on all the time.  It's basically UNIX, so it's not going to crash.  And I think with Jaguar, you can configure the firewall in the system preferences.  I'd like to know what Steve's been smokin', 'cause I'd like him to pass it over my way.  He's got to be dilusional.  Bill Gates and his goons are prolly laughing their *sses off at this one, thinking "good one Steve, you're moving in the right direction, getting warmer, almost there, but not quite, AND YOU NEVER WILL BE!"


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## xaqintosh (Jul 18, 2002)

Yes. I totally agree with everything you just said. The problem is: the nebies will be like "ooh! this is a GREAT deal!" and then they'll buy it. and once they have it, they'll keep it even if it sucks cuz they don't know any better.

    :disappointed:


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## xaqintosh (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Androo52 _
> *Yeah, whenever mac peepz get a mac virus in their email they don't download it. This brings everything to that thread taht mac users are smarter than pc users. The smart pc users are the ones that switch to mac.
> Whenever i get a windows virus, i kno it is one right away. I once downloaded one, opened it, and it said it could not be opened, but a program called Virtual PC could. I have virtual pc, and it isn't that good. Sure it's fast and all, but it sucks when playing games. It won't find your video card. That is why Virus protection for mac os x is the equivalent to shit.
> Thank you,
> Andrew. *


even if you downloaded it, it wouldn't do anything to your computer. It was engineered to destroy Windows only. They don't make "Java" virii


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## dsnyder (Jul 18, 2002)

There may not be very many mac viruses now (and none that effect OS X as far as I know), but don't you want to be protected in case something does come out?  I do.


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## btoneill (Jul 18, 2002)

Some of the biggest threats are if you use MS Office. Word/Excel macro virus's are very common. The last thing you want is to be emailed a word doc that kills every word doc on your system. If you don't have Office, your risk goes down greatly.

Brian


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dsnyder _
> *There may not be very many mac viruses now (and none that effect OS X as far as I know), but don't you want to be protected in case something does come out?  I do. *



40% of the internet runs on Linux servers.  How many of those *Linux* servers are brought down off-line with viruses?  None, or very little, exactly!  When viruses start infecting Linux servers and pounding security holes in Apache Web Server, then I'll consider protective action.  The foundation of UNIX has been around since the late 1960s, the bugs have been worked out.  It's as stable as a rock.  Besides, UNIX was developed by some of the most intelligent and talented people at our country's finest universities.  Avie Tevanian, the brainchild of the Mac OS X kernel, earned his Ph.D. at MIT.  He's one of the best at what he's does.  You don't hear about UNIX, Mac OS X, and Linux needing security updates like the goons in Redmond push out every week.  Virus protection on a Mac today is almost irrelevant.


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## dsnyder (Jul 19, 2002)

Yes, but how many users sit down at the console of those Linux servers and download and run email attachments?

Computer viruses are a social disease.  The most common Windows viruses that I've seen in the past 2 years (I work in tech support) spread by tricking people into opening attachments.  Mac users may be smarter, but they are not immune to this type of social engineering.

As Macos and Linux (on the desktop) gain in market share, I have no doubt that we will start to see more viruses written for them.


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 19, 2002)

Most email attachments are M$ office documents or malicious Windows viruses.  If the attachment is an image or sound file and it was infected, the picture or sound file probably wouldn't work correctly on a Linux or Mac system.  Linux would only see it as a foreign file, just like a Mac does.  It would do absolutely NOTHING to the Linux and Mac system.


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## dsnyder (Jul 19, 2002)

Ok, so what if it is an Applescript, like the Simpsons worm?  Or disguised as an OpenOffice document?  I think you have too much confidence in the smart people at MIT.  I work at one of the county's finest universities, and the faculty here still open attachments without thinking.


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## chemistry_geek (Jul 19, 2002)

If you get an AppleScript email attachment, you should think to yourself immediately, "This is really unusual.  Why would someone send me an AppleScript?".  We all know what AppleScript is intended to do, automate tasks and perform very specific functions.  If I ever received an AppleScript email attachment, I would try to open it up in ScriptEditor to see what it would try to do.  If I couldn't do that, I would delete it.  With the proliferation of worms and virii around the internet these days and the coverage it receives in the news, anyone with a computer now should have better judgement not to double click on email attachments and open/run them.  My friend's wife unsuspectingly double clicked on an attachement in outlook express in M$ Windows and infected their entire hard drive with the Klez virus, a PC-SPECIFIC VIRUS.  Linux users on Slashdot were gleefully commenting how they received many Klez virii in their email attachments and how Linux was unaffected by the attachment.  You really are unlikely to get a virus in Mac OS X - THEY DON'T EXIST YET!  And if they did, they would have to take advantage of a security hole, in which case there aren't any.  Apple's done a very good job making Mac OS X rock solid and it makes M$ look like a bunch of bumbling fools who can't get it right even on the forth attempt.

If you received an OpenOffice document, you would need M$ Office or OpenOffice to read it.  You can turn off macro execution in the preferences of Office so that macros aren't executed.  This way you play it safe, as you should do anyway.


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## simX (Jul 19, 2002)

Personally, I think .Mac is worth it, and I'm not a newbie Mac user.  I would REALLY LIKE the 100 MB of iDisk space (chemistry_geek: some of us DO have broadband connections, you know), and having 15 MB of e-mail space will be really nice too.  Every once in a while I get a large attachment and forget to remove it from my IMAP account, so it makes other e-mails bounce since I'm over my 5 MB limit.

Plus, the iCal and iSync .Mac support will be great in September.  And I'd like to keep my HomePage web page up and running.

I agree that Apple should have (and still should) keep mac.com e-mail free.  That was a dumb move.  Keeping HomePage free would be nice, too.

But like Steve said, we're not in the greatest of economies here, and everything costs money.

I will be registering for at least the first year of .Mac (since I get a discount anyway).  After that, we shall see when we get there, but Apple may be offering some compelling services when renewal time comes.

But don't start denouncing .Mac just because you have no use for it.  Some of us do.


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## dsnyder (Jul 19, 2002)

> *If you get an AppleScript email attachment, you should think to yourself immediately, "This is really unusual.  Why would someone send me an AppleScript?". We all know what AppleScript is intended to do, automate tasks and perform very specific functions.*



And how would you necessarily know that is was an AppleScript attachment?  What if it had a custom icon to make it look like a Word doc.  And I think there are a large number of newMac users who have no idea what AppleScript is.



> *
> With the proliferation of worms and virii around the internet these days and the coverage it receives in the news, anyone with a computer now should have better judgement not to double click on email attachments and open/run them.*



What if the message is from a colleague, and the body of the message reads "Please review my manuscript."  This is the social engineering I was talking about.



> *
> You really are unlikely to get a virus in Mac OS X - THEY DON'T EXIST YET!  And if they did, they would have to take advantage of a security hole, in which case there aren't any.  Apple's done a very good job making Mac OS X rock solid and it makes M$ look like a bunch of bumbling fools who can't get it right even on the forth attempt.*



"YET" is the important work here.  It's only a matter of time.  A security hole is not necessary to allow a virus to do it's work. If a virus deletes every file that you have permission to delete, it's done its job, and you have a big problem to deal with.  And if Apple's developers are such geniuses, why was there a gaping hole in Software Update that left us all open to unknowingly downloading trojaned code?  I'm sure there are other holes that haven't been discovered yet.



> *
> If you received an OpenOffice document, you would need M$ Office or OpenOffice to read it.  You can turn off macro execution in the preferences of Office so that macros aren't executed.  This way you play it safe, as you should do anyway. *



I'm not talking about macros, I'm talking about executables that have disguised icons, etc.

You may not need virus protection right now, but if Macs become more popular (and I hope they do), they will certainly become more popular targets for the people who write viruses.  So, I think it's a good idea to preemptively install some virus protection software.  I think this is probably why Apple is including this feature.


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## caramelApple (Jul 19, 2002)

I'm not that savvy on this whole virus thingy... alll i know is that i do have an ntivirus app. so thanks guys for helping me out and giving me this info!

Much Love,

The Mac Geekette


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## gibbs (Jul 19, 2002)

I find virex 7.0 to be competent and unobtrusive. Updating it is very old fashioned, you must log into network assoc. FTP and download the update package, and it only comes once per month, unlike the daily updates I am used to with great PC products like Kaspersky AVP. 

But, since the mac virus problem is miniscule compared to the PC one, this is understandable. 

I never use on-demand scanning in any AV product, fearing the loss of performance and the fact that they never scan every file, only "smart scanning". 

My typical stategy is just to download everything into one main location and then drag n drop it to Virex really quick to double check it. I find this works reasonably well, although the virex icon doesnt accept folders drag n dropped, only files. [you have to open the virex application to drag and drop folders to scan]

If someone has used virex 7.1 from the new .mac subscription, id be interested to see if they've refined it any.

But I trust it over Norton any day.

p.s. Damn..didnt notice it was friday.


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## edX (Jul 20, 2002)

virex 7.0 can be updated with an automatic installer available thru versiontracker every month. no need to ftp or drag to folders or anything like that.

and 7.0 available for free on versiontracker.


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## kainjow (Jul 20, 2002)

I upgraded to .Mac because 100MB is a lot for iDisk. It's not real quick now, but hopefully in Jaguar it will be much speedier (and then I will be able to mount my FTP folders on the Finder and get rid of clunky Interarchy). Also, the Backup software was one thing I wanted the most. I already use my iDisk to backup stuff, but it's slow and a pain because I have to drag the icons onto the iDisk every time. But Backup now backs it up for me on my own schedule. Also, I am looking foward to iCal. I do not know if I will be renewing my .Mac stuff next year because I do have my own website and everything.


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## toast (Jul 20, 2002)

> Personally, I think .Mac is worth it, and I'm not a newbie Mac user. I would REALLY LIKE the 100 MB of iDisk space (chemistry_geek: some of us DO have broadband connections, you know), and having 15 MB of e-mail space will be really nice too. Every once in a while I get a large attachment and forget to remove it from my IMAP account, so it makes other e-mails bounce since I'm over my 5 MB limit.



I have a broadband connection. My ISP gives me 100MB disk space + 20MB mail with it. That's why I'm on the side of those who find .mac useless and MS-like.

My ISP: http://www.wanadoo.fr/
And this is not an advertisement (hi mods ! ).

As for the viruses (I quitted Latin fairly soon ):
I had Virex on my Performa because my dad brought floppies from his work. His colleagues were complete dummies, opening all the mail saying "Yeah ! You won a GREAT Ferrari ! Click this attachment to see the picture !". So most of the floppies had some worms on them. I can rememeber a great antivirus called ActiveX that worked a lot on my Performa at the time.

Now that the iMac has no floppies, and that my girlfriend and I don't open the junk mail, the virus protection has become useless, even more on OSX. Just the firewall (SunShield) because of the broadband.


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## rezba (Jul 20, 2002)

what a good poll! Anger makes us think! Good!
I used to like my iTools. iDisk was so comfortable to be used from everywhere. It was really like if I could have a piece of my office desktop anywhere. With no virus, of course!.

I had two, I remember. A macro from M$Word. Once. After that, you know how to erase them definitly.
And the other graphic one, the worm that could get into your space if you allow quicktime to play cd's immediatly after you insert it. Can't remember its name.

Eudora has always been my mail app. No chances for outlook virii.
I never had a anti-virus from anywhere. I just open my mind and setup my firewall.
I don't need to pay 100$, or even 50$ to have one. I will look for a less confortable and less beautiful way of working out.
I'll keep my @mac.com account if it stay free. I won't cry, anyway. Apple is not a church, never a bible, and Job's has never been a guru for me. Just a smart business man.

Hey! Chemistry_geek. I agree with you 100%.


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## hunt045 (Jul 21, 2002)

I'll second Gibbs observations and questions about V7.1Virex.  I hope that for the money for .Mac that Apple's software engineers have designed a better front end interface for it.  I have it installed in my home machine and preferr it to Norton as I don't trust Nortorn under OS 10.x as of yet.  A subroutine to automatically check downloads interactively is sorely needed.  A better and easier way to update is also needed.  It would be nice if Symantecs or Network Ass. or who ever owns this, this week would sell single user licenses.  My company has a license for this.

  Btw, I have detected one virus on my Mac in four years of use.  It was a suspect 97 byte download that I checked by dropping on the Virex Icon.


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## mr_mac_x (Jul 21, 2002)

I once got the nvira virus by copying some files off of my 540c. I didn't even know it though, because it doesn't work in OS 9 or X.

I think that Apple should just offer .mac in two or three configurations: one with all of the features from iTools (or maybe just e-mail and 20MB iDisk) for free, and one with all of the .mac features for $100.


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## jaconobis (Jul 22, 2002)

I dont think the experienced mac user has to worry about virri all that much. Most of us know what we are opening as it is. The PC world however now thats another story when it comes to the threat of virri. 
As far as threats go towards OSX however it is susceptible to being hacked. Id bet more people have been hacked then have been infeceted with a virus.
I am wondering how many of you out there have had the misfortune of having your mac hacked?




________________
G4 2X 533 , 1.1gb ram, 60gb hd, 21'sony trinitron


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## bankmann (Jul 22, 2002)

There are 4655 known Macintosh virii.
Quite a lot of those are M$ Office related macro-virii.
Most, actually.
But quite a lot of virii that could damage a classic system exist.
When it comes to Mac OS X, we have to take worms more seriously; any one of us that have activated Apache, for example.
Remember Nimda? There's Mac version. Allthough I've been lucky enough not to have seen it. (The PC network where I work got hosed with Nimda.E, though.)

Autostart 8905 was the 'QuickTime-virus', by the way.

But, compared to Wintel users, we are indeed blessed...!


Bankmann


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## rezba (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bankmann _
> *
> Autostart 8905 was the 'QuickTime-virus', by the way.
> *



Thanks for my old memory...


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## hazmat (Jul 22, 2002)

I've been running PCs since 1990, and have only gotten one virus, in 1995.  I never run virus software either.  With few exceptions, it's common sense.


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## toast (Jul 29, 2002)

Then I suppose you received very little e-mail and installed very little software.


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## hazmat (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *Then I suppose you received very little e-mail and installed very little software.
> 
> *



I receive tons of email.  This is what I use for email.  Just TRY and send me a virus.


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## Ricky (Jul 29, 2002)

I actually did get *one* virus that was for Mac.  This was the real one...  Anyone remember WDEF?  I was nine years old and I got rid of it by rebuilding my desktop.  

We don't need no stinkin' virus protection.


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## toast (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *
> 
> I receive tons of email.  This is what I use for email.  Just TRY and send me a virus. *



Well, I'm not trying at any time to send you a virus I know the power of UNIX.
However, I am very much surprised somebody with a Mac, which are reputed for their GUI elegance, can resign himself to use such an UGLY email client.

Not to offense you, of course. I just find it shocking to use a DOS-like thing (as far as appearance is concerned) on an Aqua OSX machine. Don't you find it a waste too ?


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## hazmat (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *
> 
> Well, I'm not trying at any time to send you a virus I know the power of UNIX.
> ...



No offense taken, other than comparing Unix to DOS.   I might be able to agree with you when talking about a web browser, but email is text, that's it.  I need no more than mutt.  It is the most powerful and flexible mailer I have ever used.  With the exception of displaying inline image attachments, any GUI mailer I have ever seen will most likely never be able to do most of mutt's better functions.  I couldn't ask for a better mailer.  The only thing I will use Apple Mail (or whatever GUI mailer is easily available to me) for is to bounce messages with image attachments in them.  And ugly is purely your opinion.  There is almost nothing else I need that mutt doesn't do, so to me it's beautiful.


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## toast (Jul 29, 2002)

> And ugly is purely your opinion. There is almost nothing else I need that mutt doesn't do, so to me it's beautiful.



So we are *this* different 
What planet are you living on ?


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## hazmat (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *
> 
> So we are this different
> What planet are you living on ?   *



Planet Reality. ;-)


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## toast (Jul 29, 2002)

You're far from Earth then 

  "And your dreams shall come true"
  Somone who wasn't programminh for UNIX


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## Pawn Trader (Jul 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ricky _
> I actually did get *one* virus that was for Mac.  This was the real one...  Anyone remember WDEF?  I was nine years old and I got rid of it by rebuilding my desktop.



Yeah, I remember that one. Last virus I personally encountered was either that or nVir, don't remember which. Back in '91, I think. There was also SCORES, and init29, or something like that... we had a thriving virus scene for a while there. We don't these days, but it's only a matter of time and the size of the user base before we do again.

And remember: we Mac users are more susceptible to a virus than our WinDOS using 'friends.' Why? Glad you asked. Because we're sure we're immune. A new virus is reported: they cower, we snicker. Our shiny new OS may be a lot more secure than any flavor of WinDOS, but it's no longer utterly unhackable. As time goes by, and Mac OS X gains a higher profile, more and more Macs will be infected, rooted or both. A false sense of security will only help the bad guys.

Let's all do our part to keep the cyber-carnage on the PC side, where it belongs.


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## 8thDegreeSavage (Jul 30, 2002)

Heh...i guess im one of the few.

I was uploaded a virii during a game of Starcraft over BNET, the virii was the "Doom Virus", and it wiped every driver off my comp, and i paid 300 bucks for harddrive recovery, not fun.
I was running no anti virus, though the techie said that it would not have mattered much as the virus would have bypassed Norton.

Anyways, i have not got a virus in a long time, and when i got this one i was running 8.6, though i think that OSX is a little more broad in scope, so therefore possibly a tiny bit more likely to get a virus.

Dunno though, im most liekly wrong.


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## Pawn Trader (Jul 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage _
> *I was uploaded a virii during a game of Starcraft over BNET, the virii was the "Doom Virus", and it wiped every driver off my comp, and i paid 300 bucks for harddrive recovery, not fun.*



I've never heard of that one. But then again, I'm not really a gamer (recently got addicted to Quake 3 via HalfLife at the office though). I understand the part about uploads during net gaming, but how did it get executed/launched? I realize it sounds like I'm speaking more of a trojan than a virus, but doesn't viral code have to be executed at _some_ level before it can actually infect?

That's one of the main things that makes WinDOS so virus prone, that apps like Outlook (and, a few years ago, IE as well) will automatically run everything in it's line of sight. I would think that so as long as no part of the Mac OS will auto-run anything from the outside world, the only way to infect us is via social engineering. (But since we're supposedly smarter...)


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## julguribye (Jul 30, 2002)

10 viruses per week xaq!?
I think I never even recived a virus in my mail before! I have never got infected any way either...


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## xaqintosh (Jul 31, 2002)

not anymore, now its more like once a week, but when the klez virus came out I got a ton of emails with that.


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