# HELP OUT fellow MACUSERS -- please read!



## AdmiralAK (Jan 21, 2002)

Hi there.
There are about 6300 members on this forum.
I ask for your assistance in the following matter:

There is a petition, online, directed towards rainbow.gr (apple's official reseller in greece an cyprus) , and apple in general.  It is concerning the matter of greek and MacOS X (and classic subsequently).

The petition in in greek so most of you wont understand it but in essence it talks about the need to have Greek support (as a keyboard layout, fonts and localization) in the International version (the one we use) of MacOS X.

As most of you know apple doesnt have a keyboard layout for Greek yet, and it has been about a year since MacOS X's intro into the world.

MacOS X currently comes in several FULL localization and supports many many more languages in terms of input (scripts and keyboard layouts).  We, the greek mac users, want such support as well from this next generation operating system by apple.

The petition talks about classic as well, and how its basic framework (the greek version) hasnt been updated since the days of Mac System 7 (even though there is a version of MacOS 9 in greek)

It talks about the lack greek spell checker (just like the roman language spell checkers provided with appleworks).

It finally talks about the price differential of Macs in the USA and macs sold in Greece, the prices are much higher in greece than the USA, and the "allowance" of third parties to sell macs in greece, something that is not done at the moment (there are ONLY 2-3 "apple stores" in teh whole of greece!)


As one mac users to another, please go and sign this petition so that we greek macusers can enjoy what the germans, swedes, chinese, japanese, russians, and others already enjoy!  Localization and a way to type in a "native" language.

When you sign it will ask for a name, e-mail and your profession.

Thanks in advance! 

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/macgreek/petition.html



Admiral


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## RacerX (Jan 21, 2002)

Maybe you should ask Admin if he can _sticky_ this post to the top of this section for a while so it doesn't get lost as new threads are added.


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## edX (Jan 21, 2002)

or we can just make greek jokes and keep bumping it up.

so AK, does that make you a greek geek? 


(i can hardly wait to see who stands up for the Admiral and thinks i am insulting him)

btw - i am signing as soon as i post this.


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## adambyte (Jan 22, 2002)

I already signed it!  Thanks for bringing this to everybody's attention, AdmiralAK.

Yay! My 100th post! Do I win something?

btw, for some reason, my girlfriend's family thinks that all Greeks are named something like Pappas Popodopolis... Well HA! Look at MY last name!  Ha! I showed them!


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## ulrik (Jan 22, 2002)

I also just signed it.

Go, greek support, go!!!


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## twyg (Jan 22, 2002)

Consider it stuck.

Now even though I can't read Greek, it doesn't mean I want to see Admiral get upset


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## brodie (Jan 22, 2002)

signed, whats that last entry field? i presumed it was country, heck, i don't know, its all greek to me


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 22, 2002)

Hey Ed.. I am a greek geek (and girls like it   he he he -- at least in my dreams they do     -- just joking-- no need to drag me away in a straight jacket ;-)  )


Thanks to everyone that has signed it, and will sign it 


The last entry field is "Profession"



Admiral


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## voice- (Jan 22, 2002)

I was in Greece this summer(summer 2001) and I only saw PeeCees...it was a sad sight

BTW, I hope  means Location...cause otherwise I've signed this thing wrong


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## Javintosh (Jan 22, 2002)

I checked out previous positions and most were greek, but one said the following: 
1.	Aíäñáò Óêõëßôóçò      	IT Manager - ®¢ñüåäñïò "AMUG Greece"

I'm guessing that the second one is your profession/job

I signed!


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## Matrix Agent (Jan 22, 2002)

Admiral, can you translate "Phil Wood" into greek first for me? 

I will sign this right now by the fact that it will save the admin about 4TB in memory and 10% in bandwith just by stoping further greek postings by you.


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## symphonix (Jan 22, 2002)

I've signed it. Thanks, Admiral.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 22, 2002)

He he 
Thanks guys 
Since I posted this the petition has had about 35 signatures ... not badfor a days work -- keep em coming 

In petition sign i.e. here  you have :
Name (required)
Emails address (required)
&(&*¨ (required) ---> professions.



------
Phil Wood would be something like "filipos goont" lol

------

As for Macs in Greece, they do exist, I was on a "quest" in the summer of 2000 to find the apple stores in greece (only 3 in ALL of greece as I told you, 2 in athens) -- almost drove my,then, girlfriend crazy, but she liked the tangerine iBook lol.

To my sadness rainbow.gr chose to sell PC clones as well.  rainbow has been a monopoly in greece in terms of macs and perhaps thats why prices are even higher there and people arent willing to buy macs.  People dont even know what they are.  Some living in athens and close to the "mac stores" know them simply as machines grafic artists use.
*sigh*
------------




Admiral


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## edX (Jan 22, 2002)

all our non greek names do stand out, don't they? It is pretty easy to guess who came from this site.


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## whitesaint (Jan 22, 2002)

signed it  good luck admiral

-whitesaint


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 23, 2002)

He he you all have a little greek in you 
(who here was a member of a frat? or dabbled in physics ?? he he he)




Admiral


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 24, 2002)

Here's a bump to keep the cause current


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## sithious (Jan 24, 2002)

signed, sealed, delivered ... 
up with this thread!


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## edX (Jan 24, 2002)

uh, guys - this thread has been made a sticky. no need to bump it up. it remains on top of main thread list regardless. (which i thought was a shame cause i wanted to hear some good greek jokes -he he)


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 24, 2002)

Thanks sithious ;-)


Ed, it has been made a sticky but it only shows up on people's radars if its a "new" thread (if people use the "show new threads" search 


439 sigs done -- probably 50 by macosx.com members... we need to get more signed lol ;-)



Admiral
PS: feel free to make jokes


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## zerorex (Jan 24, 2002)

signed it, and then laughed my ass off as I looked at the previous sigs... about half the people put their location in the last field, and the other half put their job... 

So eather I live in "web developer" or there are alot of people who are american for a living...  I guess you have a lot of soldures signing it!


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## sheepguy42 (Jan 24, 2002)

In the response em@il I got after signing, there was the following statement:


> Please contribute at least .00 to PetitionOnline.com, to help maintain this
> premiere free speech forum.   Contributing is quick, easy, secure, and private through
> the Amazon.com Honor System:


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 27, 2002)

weird.... I dont remember getting something like that when I signed the petition way back when... ...


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## RacerX (Jan 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *PS: feel free to make jokes  *



So a Mac user, a Windows user and a Linux user walk into a bar (obviously not together). They walk up to the counter, and...


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## edX (Jan 28, 2002)

the mac user says "i'll have a shot of your finest bourbon bartender".....


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## edX (Jan 29, 2002)

the windows user says "I'll have a Miller Lite"....


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## Matrix Agent (Jan 29, 2002)

The linux user says, "What!?! this costs money?"

Continue with your joke.....


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## edX (Jan 29, 2002)

at which point the mac and windows users face each other and exclaim "I thought he was buying!!"

(go ahead phil, or anybody. i'm just making it up as i go to keep admirals petition bumped up a few more days. it was never a real joke, unless racerx had one in mind when he started it)


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## tagliatelle (Jan 29, 2002)

...an illusion.


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## Matrix Agent (Jan 29, 2002)

I just had a deep thought:

The whole mac/linux alliance is weird. Who would guess that a premium brand which controls all software and hardware would find such close ties with a free software program existing in thousands of forms. I understand that this alliance can be rationalized, but just taking a step back and examining it, doesn't it seem weird?


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## adambyte (Jan 29, 2002)

Agreed. Weirdness abounds.

btw, Matrix, I LOVE your linux punchline to Ed's joke. hehe


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 30, 2002)

So what is the linux user's alcholic preference ?


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## ddma (Jan 30, 2002)

well... i m the only one who use Mac in class, just like most of you guys. in fact, no one in my class who has Mac experences (except Apple I-stage)... so, when they ask me whatever wot is a Mac, why you use Mac, can Mac run Office, can Mac do that do it... i just tell 'em Mac is just like your PC box which is a tool just designed to help you. and they have nothing to say... and agreed with my point. yes... Mac and Mac OS X are tools just to design to help you to work better. and try to be the best out of the rest. why we choose a Mac but not a Intel machine, because all we understand how great is a Mac. yes, or few of you may say i have a Mac but it sux... and i have a pc won't crash... yes, you see, you choose a PC. so, the point is, computer whatever Intel, AMD, Apple and so on, they are just a tool that help you to work better, play better... who cares? computer is a personal stuff... you don't have to care what other ppl say! right? maybe the only one who cares are Apple and their sales because they want the business grow better!


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## ddma (Jan 30, 2002)

ignore my post, wrong thread~


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## Tigger (Jan 30, 2002)

*Admiral*, there is also a price difference in USA and Germany.
We here also have to buy our Macs at higher prices than the US 

Wow, 443 signatures already. But how many does one need to get Steve Jobs attention?


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 30, 2002)

Greek prices are up there though (maybe higher that DE's prices) --
The good thing now is that greek macs are in line with UK prices.

I wish more people would sign 
At least the more teh better 


Admiral


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## adambyte (Jan 30, 2002)

Gee, I dunno what a linux user's taste in alcohol would be... what kind of "open source" drink is out there? I wouldn't know,  I'm not a drinker... which is as it should be, considering I'm only 18.

And, yes, I also wish more people would sign. HINT HINT


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## tagliatelle (Jan 30, 2002)

Is less than 10 euro for a G4 733 (Apple) to pricey?


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## Dak RIT (Jan 30, 2002)

/me Is happily #444.

I'll have my dog sign it after another 221 more signatures too. 

Cheers,
Dak


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## edX (Jan 30, 2002)

perhaps the linux user would prefer moonshine. it's not free, but it is cheap and it is made and distributed independently. it is also very strong stuff that will kick your ass. also very dangerous - easy to screw yourself up by drinking too much.


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## Matrix Agent (Jan 30, 2002)

cheap 
created and distributed independently
very powerful
easy to mess up/can kick your ass

.......sounds like Linux


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 30, 2002)

adam I had my first drink (well willfull one ) when I was 18.


This non-sense about being 21 here in the states is BS  --- I have never gotten drunk, and I dont even drink that often....it's the "age limit" that is causing "rebelious" teens to get hammered...

aaahhh greece 



open source drink recipe: 
GO to china
Get rice from some field (china is socialist right ? so it should be free from the fields)
Distill it
Make booze
Cheers ;-)



Admiral


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## adambyte (Jan 31, 2002)

Well, okay, to be perfectly honest, I've had a sip or two of a little stuff here and a little stuff there, but my point is, I'm not alcohol expert. 

My girlfriend, however, who is now studying abroad in Athens this semester... she's getting very used to drinking wine with meals... which is fine, I could get used to that.

Yiasou!


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 31, 2002)

hmmm...also dont forget "eeehhhh viva" 
(another way to say cheers in greek -- probably comes from the italian )




I wanna get done with my degree so I can leave ---travel and see the world he he


Admiral --- international man of mystery


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## adambyte (Jan 31, 2002)

[Proceeds to sing]

There's a man who leads a life of danger
To everyone he meets, he stays a stranger
With every chance he takes
And every move he makes
Odds are he won't live to see tomorrow...

Secret A. K. Man
Secret A. K. Man

They've given you Mac OS X,
and taken away your Greek...

[continues guitar riff]...


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 31, 2002)

lol 
quite funny 


I will survive don't worry --- Its just a matter of patience endurance  (looks like I will need it this semester )



Admiral


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## edX (Feb 1, 2002)

so what's the difference between a mac os 9 user and a windows XP user?


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## alexachucarro (Feb 2, 2002)

what about a true English locali>S<ed version for the country that invented this wee language we all use?

Where it's called ColourSync, where we have the Wastebasket or Bin instead of Trash. Where we can actually remind ourselves that 'majority rules' is a very sad state of affairs.

As far as the Greek thing is concerned I think it's a lovely idea so I'll sign but I can't see Apple doing anything.

What about Turkish support!!! he he he.


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## adambyte (Feb 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> * I will survive don't worry ---  *



[sings]
I will survive! Hey! hey!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

On a completely different, but somewhat related note, I'm listening to Cat Stevens at the moment... he's half Greek. I forgot his real, Greek name, though...


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 4, 2002)

he he 
I wonder what australian english speakers use for trash 

I have a copy of system 7 UK -- very interesting


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## edX (Feb 10, 2002)

just thought i would bump this back up since there have been some new people get active on the site recently.

now, weren't the greeks the ones who fell for that stupid horse trick?


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## edX (Feb 13, 2002)

and do the Bump


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## fryke (Feb 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *now, weren't the greeks the ones who fell for that stupid horse trick? *



Erhm, no, that were the Trojan people. The Greek invented the trick. Read up your stuff, man


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## fryke (Feb 13, 2002)

Sorry, can't help it: Or at least watch Xena from time to time.  Gosh, such a BAD series, together with Hercules. As if the American people wouldn't have mixed up history BEFORE they came along and made believe that Caesar lived at the same time as the big Greek heroes. Where are the dinosaurs? Where the Atlanteans? Oh, wait, Hercules found Atlantis once. I mean, come ON!


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## adambyte (Feb 13, 2002)

And I think I've actually seen the guy's name spelled like "Heracles", not "hercules"... I think Heracles is the real Greek proncunciation.... or I could just be going nuts...


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 13, 2002)

lol english speaking people always butcher up the names  no need to worry about it


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## adambyte (Feb 13, 2002)

Yeah, damn English-speakers!..... aw, crap, that's me! nevermind...


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 14, 2002)

lol ;-)
One of my english teachers told me that most non english names are mispronounced by english speakers because of the rythm of the english language not being the same as the rythm of teh language that they originate from


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## alexachucarro (Feb 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by adambyte _
> *Yeah, damn English-speakers!..... aw, crap, that's me! nevermind... *



The Romans had really crappy Gods like: Geoff The God of Biscuits, so when they reached Greece and heard about Zeus, Aphrodite, Herecles and so on. They thought "we'll have them"

So they renamed them.

Herecles turned into Hercules.

Bloody Romans


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## changomarcelo (Feb 15, 2002)

Hey!! The petition is in greek!! 
How do you suppouse I could sign it if I can´t read it? 
What about if it really says "Signing this I donate my Mac to a Greek"?


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## changomarcelo (Feb 15, 2002)

The Mac keyboard I have does not have the following argentinian characters:
* eñe: Ñ (like in niño)
* elle: LL (like in lluvia)
* che: CH (like in che guevara)
* tilde: ´


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 15, 2002)

changomarcelo, I thought that most people had adopted away from the use of "ch" as a character? Hmm, while were on the topic of keyboards, does anyone know how chinese is typed?


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## edX (Feb 16, 2002)

like most other languages - with your fingers. 

of course knowing how multi-talented you are Phil, i suppose your toes would work. you might even be able to use your nose 


so are you planning on writing the great chinese novel or just curious?


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 16, 2002)

I thought that the academia ral (or whatever its called) made teh CH and LL non characters  


As for chinese, I think its the same as japanese.  You type the roman version e.g.: Ohaio Gozaimasu and the computer picks the characters out that go with that combo.  It also gives you the option to choose from different characters if there are more options.



Admiral


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## edX (Feb 17, 2002)

so it is the greeks we have to blame for trojan horses. well, since most of themonly effect pc's , i guess i will let them off the hook for now.

chango - we all just trust AdmiralAK. perhaps we should have something stamped on our foreheads, but we trust him. so sign or don't sign.  

Admiral - when the police show up at my door over this....


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 17, 2002)

You know me, curious phil. 

BTW, it was the "geeks" who built the trojan horse, not the greeks. Someone has to have the job of clearing toli's name around here.


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 17, 2002)

The person who had the idea of a trojan horse was ulysees.  Quite ingenious actually 

Geeks made the modern trojan horses for computers, and then some other company exploits tha name trojan for condoms, perhaps they should pay copyrights 


Admiral


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## adambyte (Feb 17, 2002)

Beware of geeks bearing gifs.


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## edX (Feb 17, 2002)

geeks, greeks, what's the difference?


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 17, 2002)

teh greeks had it all 
the looks, the brains and the women 
damn barbarians for tainting our society  -- I blame the romans


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## PCSMASHER (Feb 17, 2002)

I have signed.     Greek looks confusing though.


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## edX (Feb 18, 2002)

greeks are very confusing


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## ABassCube (Feb 18, 2002)

Wow, I am late coming in, aren't I?

Anyway, I signed and I am number 454.

Happy to help, Admiral. 

Adam


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 18, 2002)

He he, you are welcome to stay and be part of teh post signing discussion  hehe 

Thanks for signing  ...


Greeks are confusing Ed ? ... maybe... It's all in the eye of teh beholder (I loved that game)


Admiral


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## adambyte (Feb 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *greeks are very confusing *



So what you're saying is, Herve is Greek.


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## edX (Feb 18, 2002)

> the greeks had it all
> the looks, the brains and the women
> damn barbarians for tainting our society  -- I blame the romans



so now you are blaming italians for your GF situation?


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 18, 2002)

lol why not ;-)
they seem good candidates 

if an italian girl comes along, she might help redeem the romans ;-) hehehe


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## edX (Feb 19, 2002)

so where did the saying "it's all greek to me" come from?


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## edX (Feb 27, 2002)

no really, where did that saying originate? In Italy maybe?


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## blb (Feb 27, 2002)

Shakespeare


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## edX (Feb 27, 2002)

so it was the Italians. not a bad guess i made 

thanks blb!!

which proves once again that knowing where to find the answer is every bit as valuable as knowing the answer.


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## edX (Feb 28, 2002)

so who's up for some gyros - one of the great greek contributions to the world!!


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 28, 2002)

lol.. I must be one of the few greeks that REALLY hates gyros  -- I dont like lamb in general, or whatever gyros is made from ( I think its lamb) -- I prefer kebab "gyros" which is made from pork


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 28, 2002)

I enjoy baklava and anything with phyllo dough (excluding seafood.)

Admiral, whats up with this...

Don't know how it is around you, but every diner in my town is owned and operated by a greek person. Is this common? 

If the simpsons have a diner, would it be run by greeks? Kind of compliments apu and his kwik-i-mart.


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## adambyte (Feb 28, 2002)

hehe! Greek diners are a must... Anybody remember the SNL skit with the guys in the Greek diner...?

"No coke! Pepsi!"

"You don't want a cheeseburger? Look! Cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger..."


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 1, 2002)

well there was a trend to that.
When most greeks migrated they either became laborers or entrepreneurs.  The people who chose to become entrepreneurs went into the food industry (or whatever you call it) and for a great while other greeks fresh off the boat followed by example since it seemed to be a lucrative business.  When that market saturated other greeks went into the gasstation/repairshop businesses and by example others followed.  They are just trends, and since most greek businesses are family operated, when the father "retires" the son or daughter would take over the running of the business (this seems to be less and less of a phenonmenon these days since kids go out and do their thing if they so wish to).


As for balkava, I am not that big of a sweets kinda person, but on occasion I do enjoy a piece of balkava.


My ALL TIME FAVORITE thing to eat is spinach pie!  I can eat it hot or cold, its THE BEST! 



Admiral


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## adambyte (Mar 1, 2002)

[Hands Admiral AK a plate of Spanakopita]

Enjoy.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 1, 2002)

mmmmmmm....hey adam where do you live ? does your mother cook traditional greek things ?  .. lol maybe I will come visit more often 


I love spanakopita 


hey adam do you like loukoumades ?
(fried dough balls, with syrup and cinammon)


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## edX (Mar 1, 2002)

i'm with Phil, baklava is great stuff. those little cinnimon dough balls sound good too though. 

I used to work with a guy whose mom would bring us in freash baklava every so often. What a treat!!


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## adambyte (Mar 1, 2002)

Eh, I live in Los Angeles, but you wouldn't want to visit, though, my mom's the non-Greek half of me (Polish).... sorry... so she doesn't cook Greek stuff. Ah, but my Sakellarides relatives in New York.... yes, they cook all sorts of Greek goodies. 

And, sadly, no, I have not tried loukoumades... although, I just discovered two Greek places to eat by my college, "Sophia's" and "Daphne's"... so I think some food testing is in order soon.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 2, 2002)

NY sounds closer to me, notify the relatives that the Admiral will be crashing  hehe 

I highly recommend that you try loukoumades, my grandmother made them and they are deeeeelicious!  FInd a greek pastry shop and ask if they have them.  I have gone Greek pastry shops here in Boston and some of em have it


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## Matrix Agent (Mar 2, 2002)

All this talk of greek diners made me hungry. I went down to the alexis diner tonight and had pancakes and homefries.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 2, 2002)

I am waiting to see earth final conflict and then I am heading down town ...get some ral food and some brain food 


Admiral


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## vanguard (Mar 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *i'm with Phil, baklava is great stuff.*



As usual, Ed is wrong 99% of the time. 

Vanguard


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## Matrix Agent (Mar 2, 2002)

You are 100% correct vanguard.


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## edX (Mar 9, 2002)

hooray we're back on line!


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 9, 2002)

so the site was indeed down


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## edX (Mar 10, 2002)

so what am i wrong about this time? how to spell baklava or how yummy it tastes?

couldn't be about how yummy i think it tastes. which is very yummy.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 10, 2002)

baklava is how its spelled.  I like it, but its too sweet at times.  I am not a person who likes sweets a lot, once in a while I crave them though 


Admiral


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## edX (Mar 12, 2002)

that's good that it is spelled baklava because that is the way i like to spell it


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## rezba (Mar 12, 2002)

#461

non-english human being solidarity

Love baklava too, but only if it's fine. Some are too much sweet.


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