# If you can't get the 10.1 upgrade....



## dougk_ff7 (Sep 29, 2001)

If you are unable to find a copy of the 10.1 upgrade, you have 3 options.  You can download from the FTP servers (I don't know how legal this is), you can wait until a local store has more, or you can order a CD from the Apple Store for $20.  The Apple Store won't have any in for 2-3 weeks though, so your local store might be quicker.  Just wanted to point htse out.


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## kcmac (Sep 29, 2001)

Apple has updated their statement. They are processing orders immediately and you will get your copy from them 3-5 days after you order.  

Some people have claimed to order on Wednesday and had it on Friday.


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## Ghoser777 (Sep 29, 2001)

Well, considering the upgrade is free, I'm not sure why this would not be legal.  And since the use of the upgrade requires the installation of OS X, u shouldn't have to worry about legal issues.

F-bacher


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## doppelbock (Sep 29, 2001)

just because the update is "free," does not mean that apple does not retain the rights to the software or its distribution.


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## Ghoser777 (Sep 29, 2001)

Do you know "if" they've researved the right?

F-bacher


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## doppelbock (Sep 29, 2001)

i have not seen the whole license agreement, but i would be *very* surprised if they did not retain all distribution rights....apple runs a tight ship, and if they had intended the update to be available via download they would have said so and/or done it that way themselves.

one of the main reaons for this is support. they do not want calls from people who can't install or didn't burn a copy properly...it just adds too many variables for them to support.


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## sfish (Sep 29, 2001)

I don't know what Apple's distro agreement is, and I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I think the worst case scenario would be for macosx.com to receive a "cease and desist" letter.  Even if there is such a restriction in the user agreement, most likely Apple won't bother enforcing it since they so royally screwed up this upgrade launch and the FTP sites are only helping reduce user's anger over this issue.


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## doppelbock (Sep 29, 2001)

i'll agree that a "cease and desist" is probably all that apple would do about the ftp sites, unless they didn't shut down when requested.....when it is a "free" update there is a bit less incentive to spend the $$ chasing people down.

i don't really agree that apple "royally screwed up" with the launch though.  you can get it from apple, you can get it from dealers.....it's no big problem except for those with absolutely no patience whatsoever javascript:smilie('')


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## sfish (Sep 30, 2001)

I live in a city where Apple has a pretty strong business presence.  I had to "import" my copy from a city four hours away.  If you gave the pony express as much time and as many resources as Apple had this upgrade would have been distributed more effectively.  The fact that Apple couldn't is a royal screwup.  The fact that users are sick of waiting for an upgrade Apple's been hyping and delaying for months might be considered impatience, but it's pretty understandable. 

Actually, the legal issues are a moot point now that the FTP links are gone.


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## Ghoser777 (Sep 30, 2001)

Where did they go?  I wanted to download it 

F-bacher


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## eizzumdm (Sep 30, 2001)

Curiosity got the better of me, and I actually cracked open the little Software License Agreement booklet that came with the free "Up-to-Date" 10.1 upgrade.

Actually, there is no specific 10.1 license agreement. The agreement that came with 10.1 is a word for word reprint of the software agreement that came with the 10.0 retail package (otherwise known as X 1.0).

So all the same restrictions apply -- one copy to one computer, single backup copy, not making it available over a network, blah, blah, blah.

I'm sure applying the 10.1 update to multiple copies of 10.0 is an acceptable bending of the rules, but posting it to a public network might draw the attention and ire of our favorite zealously litigious fruit company. But as stated earlier, a "cease and desist" is probably the worst that can happen.


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## LordOphidian (Sep 30, 2001)

Hate to tell you, but the update is free as in beer, not as in speach... from the Software License Agreement for Mac OS X:


> *3. Transfer*
> You man not rent, lease, lend, redistribute, or sublicense the Apple Software. You may however make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the Apple Software (in its original form as provided by Apple) to another party, provided that: (a) the transfer must include all of the Apple Software, including all of its component parts, original media, printed materials and this License; ....



So basicaly we can't host it.


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## jimr (Sep 30, 2001)

The update is free to current owners.  The copyright belongs to Apple and they can choose any way they deem fit or necessary to determine who the recipients of the free upgrade might be.

even something which is not copyrighted might not be in wide distribution.

There is a nominal charge for shipping;If not reasonable.

Stores may or may not do the right thing.

if you track down a copy and get it installed without having to wait for an official source to provide it, bully for you.

Please don't post those requests here, or addresses where you might provide a copy.

Anything done in private is up to you.

There are plenty of channels where you can  discuss these things privately with individuals who are willing to help you out.


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## doppelbock (Sep 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by sfish _
> *I live in a city where Apple has a pretty strong business presence.  I had to "import" my copy from a city four hours away.  If you gave the pony express as much time and as many resources as Apple had this upgrade would have been distributed more effectively.  The fact that Apple couldn't is a royal screwup.  The fact that users are sick of waiting for an upgrade Apple's been hyping and delaying for months might be considered impatience, but it's pretty understandable.
> 
> Actually, the legal issues are a moot point now that the FTP links are gone. *




I don't buy that argument, sorry.  Given that Apple decided that downloading was not practical for them (for reasons previously stated) I think they've done a pretty good job trying to get this update out to the masses.  Every other cd-only update has been by the mail up-to-date program...now they've gotten copies out to the dealers to hand out....in some cases they couldn't get enough out to some right away...awwww..too bad...I think they've done pretty good.

If you've waited months and months...is another couple of days gonna hurt that much?  Give 'em a break....there are a lot of logistics involved in distributiing software, and remember, this thing was only finalized about 2 weeks ago...it *does* take time to press and package cd's and get them in the distribution channel.

I hate to sound like such an apple apologist, but in this case i think the criticism should be saved for something more worth complaining about.


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## yuriwho (Sep 30, 2001)

This is outrageous! Apple have fu*ked this one up big time!

Apple has made it really difficult for early adopters to upgrade, yet made it easy for  the late adopters. Go to any Apple retailer today and you would find Box sets available at $129 a pop but few free upgrade CD's.

To top it off, the free upgrade does not include the Dev tools (and they are not yet available online). I need the dev tools to migrate to 10.1 on my main machine (I need to be able to complile mod_ssl into apache). 

So macosx.com tries to help the Mac faithful and they get cease and desist!!!??? (is this true?)

Come on Apple, this is silly!You are shitting on your biggest supporters! Treat us to the same that you offer new buyers, that includes making the dev tools and upgrade CD's available or downloadable.

Please, DO it now!
And fire the marketing genius that came up with this plan.

I suspect the best thing to do is to write to Apple expressing your own sentiments on this issue. If enough of us write to them, perhaps they will not make this mistake again. So what is most effective address to write to/ send e-mail to? Feedback?

I'm composing some feedback right now!

Y


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## sfish (Sep 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by doppelbock _
> *I hate to sound like such an apple apologist, but in this case i think the criticism should be saved for something more worth complaining about. *



Why?  Complaining is what we Apple faithful do best.  

The vast majority of complaints I've heard have been fairly muted.  They basically are postings from people who are upset that this was handled badly.  It wasn't a complete fiasco, but it wasn't handled well by Apple either.  

In the long run, everyone who wants to upgrade for free will.  It seems reasonable that those who haven't been able to upgrade on time should be given a chance to say they're upset.  Trying to tell people that their (at least somewhat) legitimate anger at Apple isn't really worth complaining about just fuels the fire and does not diminish their anger one degree.  

I guess what made me upset was that the distro portion of Apple's user agreement does nothing to really help Apple and does so much to keep people from getting this upgrade.  It seems at best arbitrary and at worst stupid.   I know it's a very common piece of legalese.  I would have been surprised had Apple not included it.  However, not all common practices are smart.  It would probably go much further toward helping people be a little more patient if someone with some legal insight would explain exactly what Apple and other companies gain from this seemingly archaic portion of everyday software user agreements.


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## dougk_ff7 (Sep 30, 2001)

Ok, for those of you wondering, the OS 10.1 Dev tools will be available online starting tomorrow.  You can access them at Apple's developer site, http://developer.apple.com -- All you need is your Apple ID and password.  Also, the reasons the upgrade CDs have been in short supply is because stores only ordered 20-30 CDs regularly.  Some ordered more, some less.  So it isn't Apple's falut stores forgot to order enough CDs, the stores just made a VERY bad estimate.

Again, I hope this helps.


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## andrewhicks (Sep 30, 2001)

Well, most of the complaining about distribution is centered around USA.  I happen to live in Iceland, and was keen to go down to the only Apple authorized store yesterday to find them running OS 10.1 on some machines, because they are localizing the software for Iceland.  However, I was told that they would not be able to get an upgrade CD, and that this would have to be ordered from the UK.

It was a shame to see the FTP links removed today, as I was hoping to get a copy to upgrade.  The store here in Iceland says that distribution in Europe is really behind, so this would have helped a lot, and saved several weeks.

If anyone out there does know of somewhere to download a disk image, I would be grateful.

Thanks
Andrew


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## sfish (Sep 30, 2001)

usenet group: alt.binaries.mac.applications
poster: BobsYourUncle
date posted: 9.29.2001 between 2:34 and 5:34 pm
search for: theupgrade.img
# of parts: 43

I did not post this (honestly - I didn't even have my upgrade package until later yesterday) and I have no idea if it's complete, but it does seem to be legit from a spectator's view.  

It's up to you to decide whether you want to get it from this source.  I'm not advocating anything, just providing information that might be useful to someone out there.


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## flash (Oct 1, 2001)

[Wednesday] faxed an order to Apple for uptodate program.
[Thursday] discovered my debit card account empty.
[Monday] received uptodate package.
Very happy. Going to install it soon.
The brown padded paper envelope contained:

Welcome to Mac OS X booklet/guide.
License agreement
3 more software coupons.
Mac OS 9.2.1 CD
Mac OS X 10.1 CD
Mac OS X 10.1 Developer Tools CD
Pretty spiffy for $20. That's an 8 piece family meal at KFC. With my strangely empty account, I'm not entirely sure I paid anything for this. Or maybe it just tacked on to my negative balance.


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## sfish (Oct 1, 2001)

Here's to hoping Apple posts the DevTools Image today or that someone can make it available soon.


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## sfish (Oct 1, 2001)

Here's to hoping macosx.com allows you to delete accidental double-postings again soon.


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## tie (Oct 1, 2001)

People say that Apple couldn't make the update available for download because they lacked the bandwidth.  Well.. they lack the physical infrastructure to distribute it through stores as well!  My local Mac stores are all out of copies.  Several are reserving the "free" updates to those who buy a (not-free) computer.  Others have a wait-list.
This is ridiculous.  If Apple is going to distribute updates, they need to invest in some infrastructure.  Either they need to buy bandwidth, or they need to strengthen their retail presence, or they need to get a warehouse which can quickly ship things through the mail (instead of in 6-8 weeks).
It is a real pain that Apple has done none of this whatsoever.
I'm complaining now and I'll complain when I finally get the update and the DVD player won't run on my G4.
I'll keep on complaining about Apple because all MacOS X has been is a long series of mistakes.
I do *not* just have a bad attitude.  Mac is Mac because it works.  MacOS X has totally changed that, in every sense.


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## flash (Oct 1, 2001)

Regardless how byzantine and backwards Apple's distro methodology is -- all I can say is that 10.1 rocks. Very.

DVD of "The Gift" is playing in the background. Onscreen brightness and volume controls. I'd broken some things over the last few months: Sound works again; booting to 9 works again. New mail.app, IE upgraded to 5.1.2 (?).

IE took 3 bounces. Terminal took 10 (!!) (12 on next try) (what's the story with that!?). On the whole, there is no wait longer than 2-4 seconds, and most is immediate. Very, very snappy. I knew I missed a fast Finder... I just didn't know how much. System lags a little during DVD (i.e., cycles directed away from interface towards dvd). 

It's worth upgrading, by any means necessary.

NOTE: Interestingly, a semi-sheer terminal window doesn't let you look through to the DVD player -- you just get a blank background where the terminal intersects with the DVD screen.


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## Crawfish (Oct 1, 2001)

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I got back from vacation on Saturday and saw on the Apple site that the 10.1 upgrade was available and free to current owners. I called Microcenter and they said to come down and just say you have 10.0 and they would give you the package! They ordered 500 upgrade packages to start and had about 20 left by the time I got there. My wife has worked in retail all her life. She says it's better to run out of product than to be overstocked.

Anyways, I got it and it does R O C K !


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## dougk_ff7 (Oct 1, 2001)

Ok, just so you know, the Kansas City CompUSA now has their CDs.  I just picked mine up today and I'm going to install it tonight.


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## bewshy (Oct 1, 2001)

I reserved my copy on Saturday at the Apple Store in SoCal and they came in today.  There going to hold all of the reserved copies until Wednesday.  Also my friend who is an Account Exec for CompUSA said that all the CompUSA's are getting in a second shipment this week.


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## Zarembo (Oct 1, 2001)

Have you tried to give feedback to Apple? I've been looking for an e-mail address to which I could send it.

I'll gladly send one, a big one!


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## iThink (Oct 4, 2001)

I was just wondering, if you don't break the seal on the software package, then you are not bound by the license agreement. As I recall it says by breaking this seal you agree to be bound by the license agreement inside. 

Does that mean that you can redistribute as long as the seal is not broken? And how do you define redistribute. Does that mean that the FedEx guy is redistributing to the CompUSA receiving guy who redistributes to the sales clerk who redistributes to you.

By agreeing to the terms of the license agreement before you even open and read it is kinda like signing a contract before you read it. It seems to me that if that agreement were to be enforcable, they could literally state in the license agreement that you agree to pay them $10.00 a day while using the software or until you surrender it back to Apple.

I get the feeling that most of these software agreements would not be enforcable in a court of law with a sharp attorney.

What do you think?


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## dougk_ff7 (Oct 4, 2001)

Nope, if you open the seal, you aren't bound by the agreement.  It's as soon as you install the software.  They're just saying you can't sell it to anyone, etc... Also, did you see that little clause "If you disagree with this agreement return it to your local retailer for a full refund." I don't know if they put it in there, but it's a standard one that allows you to get out of the whole thing.


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## theed (Oct 4, 2001)

Snail mail really came through.  Apple up to date ordered on Wednesday, arrived Friday, (the Friday just before it was released) Because I don't consider myself to be in any way special by postal standards, I think that anyone in thu U.S. whining about this issue is really making a big case out of nothing.

Also, in the U.S, everything is illegal, Everything.  The question lies in what's worth enforcing.  If you are distributing something that is being given away for free, I don't see why Apple would be motivated to beat on you!

And the bound by breaking the seal thing will be easily defeatable as soon as we get matter replicators like in Star Trek.  ;-)

But really, we can all spot problems ... who has a solution?  I think Apple distributed to local centers, and allowed mail at a light cost, and have been generally cool about the whole thing.  If you think something different should be done, figure out what that thing should be, and suggest it.  It's called constructive criticism.  I love all y'all Aplle folk out there, as you don't want to tolerate mediocrity; but unless you help come up with a solution, you're part of the problem.

I apologize if I'm stepping on toes here, but this thread really seems to be about whining instead of about understanding a problem and finding a solution.  ... and that's about the nicest thing I can say about that.


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## danno (Oct 4, 2001)

OK, I'll try to make this sound not-too-whiney...

My 2 local CompUSA stores grossly underestimated the demand for the 10.1 update and both ran out of copies on the first day.  I've spoken with the store manager of each store and they have no idea when more copies will arrive.

Is Apple sending more copies for a "2nd wave" of updates to the stores, or am I just out of luck and need to order it online?

(There.  That wasn't too whiney, was it?  )


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## theed (Oct 4, 2001)

You're swell.

I think it'd be great to tell more CompUSA et al managers about their grossly underestimating demand for Apple products.  maybe they'll learn?  If it's just the update, it seems if they were cooler they could have been burning copies and giving those away if what I've heard about Apple stores doing the same is true.  But alas, CompUSA will have a hard time being as cool as an Apple store.


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