# Linux... again...



## SAbsar (Sep 3, 2005)

A while ago, I tried installing YDL 2 on my G3 Wallstreet. Didn't work, so I gave up, and my Wallstreet's been eating dust since. Now I wanna put it to _some_ sorta use! I just want to get _any_ flavor of linux working on the book!

Could anyone please suggest a distro, and provide a step-by-step installation guide for me? I'm a total linux newbie, and I've got Mac OS 8.1 on the wallstreet. 

Thanks in advance!


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## nixgeek (Sep 3, 2005)

Well, you can try Fedora Core 4 which finally has a PowerPC version.  You can also try Ubuntu or Kubuntu (KDE version of Ubuntu), Gentoo, Debian, SuSE, etc.

Remember that the Wallstreet models are Old World Macs, meaning that they won't boot from a Linux CD like a New World Mac would.  New World Macs use OpenFirmware and don't require a Mac OS installation.  They can also boot from Linux CDs when you hold down the "C" key.

With Old World Macs, you are still using a hardware ROM which requires that a Mac OS be installed in some partition.  However, if you create a small partition just for the Mac OS to hold the kernel and use BootX, you can use BootX to do the installation and then to boot into the Linux partition after the install.

Check the following site for more information on BootX.
http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/bootx/


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## nixgeek (Sep 3, 2005)

Also check this thread on ppcnerds.org for detailed information of a Linux install on an Old World Power Mac.  ("slackn8r" is my handle there)

http://ppcnerds.org/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-73.html


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## SAbsar (Sep 4, 2005)

Wow, nixgeek! That was the most helpful help ever! Really! But there still remains one little problem. None of the linux distros I have will install.
FC4 quit on me JUST before it began copying files, giving me an error something about memory allocation. Mandriva, YDL 2 and YDL 3 quitbefore the installer even fired up! Abnormal termination, rebooting in 180 secs.... what is that about?


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## nixgeek (Sep 4, 2005)

When you started the install, did you do it from the Mac OS desktop with all extensions loaded?  If so, then that might be the problem.  Whenever I tried to kick Linuxinto gear with tthe Mac OS fully loaded the Linux boot process hanged on me.

BootX comes with an extensions that loads before any of the extensions and control panels come up.  Drop that extension in the System Folder and reboot.  Onec rebooted, you'll see that Welcome screen.  Right before it starts to load the extensions, the BootX extension kicks in.  Select Linux (with all of the parameters for an install) and you should be good to go.

As to why this happens, I'm not sure.  But it does.


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## SAbsar (Sep 4, 2005)

Lol! It's like BootX just doesn't wanna play  After I copied the extension into the correct folder, i get this message at startup: "Could not load a suitable kernel file"


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## nixgeek (Sep 4, 2005)

OK, in the BootX folder there's another folder called _Linux Kernels_.  That needs to be in the System Folder also.  BootX looks in the System Folder for this folder with the necessary kernels.  You'll have to copy one of the kernels from the Linux CD into that Linux Kernels folder.  It's usually in a folder called _install_ in the CD and you'll see the "vmlinux" images.  Make sure you get the one for _powerpc_ as there might be other for POWER and other PowerPC processors that aren't for the Mac.


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## fryke (Sep 4, 2005)

(Doesn't the Wallstreet still make quite a decent OS 8/9 computer? I mean: I can understand the need to tinker, but I'd make such a notebook the project of finding the best version of classic Mac OS and give it the applications that make it the good notebook it was in its days...)


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## nixgeek (Sep 4, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> (Doesn't the Wallstreet still make quite a decent OS 8/9 computer? I mean: I can understand the need to tinker, but I'd make such a notebook the project of finding the best version of classic Mac OS and give it the applications that make it the good notebook it was in its days...)



I tried that on my StarMax 4000.  The fact that i'm relegated to using IE and proprietary IM clients is one of the reasons I don't use it on Mac OS 9 so much.  About the only thing I'm using it for now is to run Master Tracks Pro for my sequencing....nothing else.

I'm usually booted into Debian Sarge on that same StarMax.  It runs quite well, even with only 128 MB or RAM (though not exactly a speed demon either).  Under Debian I can use Gaim for IM, Firefox for web browsing, and various other up-to-date apps that I'm used to.  Plus, I'm running a Unix-like operating system with is the closest I'll ever get to Mac OS X on that computer.

Since this is a Wallstreet PB, it would run even better since it has a G3 (my StarMax has a 604e CPU) and an ATI chipset (which is better supported under PPC Linux).  I attempted this with a Wallstreet II laptop but for some reason I couldn't even get farther than SAbsar did.  For all I know it was due to my lack of knowledge at the time.


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## SAbsar (Sep 5, 2005)

Yes, fryke, that IS a tempting use of the Wallstreet, but as nixgeek pointed out, I just want to use up-to-date software 

Well, nixgeek, I tried that, but it still won't budge! Yellow dog installer won't fire up, FC4's will, but just as it's about to start copying files, it says "could not allocate memory"  Mandriva is still giving me that Rebooting in 180 secs message. With mandriva, I'm using the vmlinux-power4 kernel and associated ramdisk image.


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## nixgeek (Sep 5, 2005)

How high did you set the ramdisk memory amount to?  Try increasing it to 16384.


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## Viro (Sep 5, 2005)

SAbsar said:
			
		

> With mandriva, I'm using the vmlinux-power4 kernel and associated ramdisk image.



Now, this could be an issue. Macs use the PowerPC architecture, which although is similar in many respects to the POWER architecture, there are subtle differences. This could be why you are having problems running. Try booting with a powerpc kernel instead and see what kinda results you get.


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## nixgeek (Sep 5, 2005)

And btw, the power4 kernel is for the G5.  You need to use the powerpc one.

EDIT: Blegh...took too long to answer...thanks Viro!


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## SAbsar (Sep 5, 2005)

Hi. There was no powerpc kernel. there was a 601 kernel, a power4 kernel, and this other one labelled all. The 'all' version didn't work. Lemme focus on the FC4 thing now. in a folder lablelled 'ppc', I've got 4 folders: 'chrp', 'iSeries', 'mac', 'mac64'

Each of these contains a kernel file, and a ramdisk.image.gz file. Which do I use? I'm currently using the one inside 'mac'

Now for the Mandriva disk. Inside a folder labelled 'boot', I have 'vmlinux', 'vmlinux-power4', 'vmlinux-ppc601', and three other files: 'all-power4.gz', 'all-ppc601.gz' and 'all.gz'. Which do I use? 

Help me out, coz I really dont wanna quit on the whole linux-on-my-book thing!


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## nixgeek (Sep 5, 2005)

Well, think about it.  Your PowerBook has a G3. It can't be a _mac64_ since it's not a 64-bit processor (PowerPC 970, aka G5).  It also can't be _power4_ because that's for the POWER processors.  As for the _ppc601_ kernel, that's for Nubus-based Power Macs (pre-PCI).  The _chrp_ image is for non-Apple PPC machines that use the Common Hardware Reference Platform design.  The _iSeries_ is for the IBM iSeries servers.

So it would either be "mac" or "all" (since the latter would encompass all the processors including the G3 even though that didn't seem to work for you).

Why don't you give Debian a try?  It's what I'm using in my StarMax and has worked for me more than any of the others.  That one does have a _powerpc_ kernel image that I know will work with the G3.  Heck, mine has an older processor than your so it should work on your PowerBook.


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## nixgeek (Sep 5, 2005)

BTW, the latest Debian Linux ("sarge") is much easier to install.  I would recommend downloading the net-install ISO image since it would basically install a base system and install any other applications over the Internet.

Also give Ubuntu a try since it's more Debian based and we know that it works.  I've installed it on a Power Mac G3 blue and white (both Debian and Ubuntu that is) and it's worked fine.


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## SAbsar (Sep 5, 2005)

Oh! So, I've been doing it all wrong then! 

Okay, I'll start dowloading Debian. Considering I have dial-up, expect it any minute now! 
Thanks for the wonderful help! I'll update when I'm done!


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## nixgeek (Sep 5, 2005)

LOL....you didn't mention you had dialup.  Good luck. 

Actually, you can order the Ubuntu/Kubuntu CDs and they will send it via snail-mail for free.  The only thing you might have to pay for is shipping if anything.


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## kickassmac (Sep 6, 2005)

ubuntu power pc has a very straight forward installation and an intuitive GUI, however i dont know if your mac is supported, and i had to fiddle around with mine to get the sound to work. theres also a live cd which can be useful for just looking.

http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/5.04/

i think gentoo do a power pc version aswell, though havent tried it.


PowerBook G4


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## nixgeek (Sep 6, 2005)

There's a wiki on getting Ubuntu installed on Old World Macs.  I did it on my StarMax and that's much older than the Wallstreet PowerBook.

https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallOnOldWorldMacs

The only reason I removed it was because it was slow on my StarMax.  But it will install...just takes a little more TLC.


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## SAbsar (Sep 7, 2005)

Whoo! I got hold of Ubuntu for PowerPC! Which is strange, really, because I'm the only person at my university who uses a Mac, and the total population of mac users in my city is well within 1%. A friend had ordered a PowerPC version of Ubuntu, since he knew I used a PowerPC based system! 

Anyway, the moment I got home, I plugged the installation CD in, I fired up the installer and Wallahi!  It installed, asked me to restart. It also told me that my system wasn't directly capable of booting into Ubuntu (which we already know  ), and that I'd need to manually boot using a kernel in /boot on /dev/hda8. It also told me that I'd have to pass this on to the kernel: root=/dev/hda8 

Now, I can't really use the kernel in /boot on the /dev/hda8 because BootX only shows me the kernels in the 'Linux Kernels' folder. But I passed the root= argument to the kernel, and now I'm getting another error. It says there was a failure with some VFS? And that I should try rebooting with a correct root= argument. I've even tried it without the root= thing, but this is still happening. It crashes out with: 'Rebooting in 180 seconds'...


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## nixgeek (Sep 8, 2005)

OK, I know I had mentioned this in the links I sent you.  Once the installation is done, DON'T REBOOT.  You need to mount the Macintosh partition in order to copy the kernel and initrd image that was installed in /boot by Ubuntu.  This is probably why you've ben having problems with all of the Linux distros on this Mac.  It drove me nuts for weeks trying to figure this out on my own. 

In detail:  When the installer tells you to reboot, DON'T.  Alt-F2 will give you a command shell where you will do your damage-uh, I mean, dirty work. 

Once at the command prompt, you are going to have to load the HFS (or HFS+ if your Mac partition  is formatted that way) kernel module that was just installed.  However, you are going to have to COPY the kernel module from the location in the /target directory (this is what will eventually be your / directory once the system boots on its own) to the exact location where the kernel module would reside in the installer's / directory.



> cp -v /target/lib/modules/_<kernel-version>_/kernel/fs/hfs/hfs.ko /lib/modules/_<kernel-version>_/kernel/fs/hfs


(You might have to create the hfs directory on the latter location if it's not there.  If you used HFS+, then replace "hfs" with "hfsplus" when making the command.)

Once you've done this successfully, do a "depmod -a" to make those modules available to the installer's loaded kernel.  After that, do a "modprobe hfs" (or "modprobe hfsplus" if using HFS+) to load the module you just copied over.

Now you'll mount the Mac partition.  Create a directory in / and call it whatever you want (I'll use "macpart" as an example).  You'll then mount the Mac partition in this format:



> *mount -t hfs *<hfs-partition-name>* /macpart*
> 
> (or *mount -t hfsplus *<hfsplus-partition-name>* /macpart* if using HFS+)


Make sure you know what your actual Mac OS partition is.  I'm sure you saw many partitions during the disk partitioning phase of the installation.  The one to point to is usually the last one, but make sure.  My StarMax, for example, has two Mac OS partitions so I can choose to use /dev/hda6 which is the main Mac OS system partition in HFS+ and /dev/hda7 which is a non-system Mac OS partition in regular HFS.  I did this personally as a backup measure in case HFS+ wasn't supported properly.  But it should be now.

Once the Mac OS partition is mounted, begin to copy the kernel and initrd image in */target/boot* over to the mounted partition (in this case "/macpart"):



> cp -v /target/boot/<kernel-image> /macpart
> cp -v /target/boot/<initrd-image> /macpart


_Be sure you don't copy the syslink instead of the actual kernel and initrd image.  To be sure of which files to copy, "cd" into /target/boot and do an "ls -l" before copying over.  This will show you which is a syslink and what actual file it is pointing to._

DO a "cd" into your mounted partition directory (in this case, "/macpart") and verify that the files are in there.  If they are, "cd" back to / and unmount the Mac OS partition (umount /macpart).  Hit Alt-F1 and you'll be back at the screen of the installer.  Allow the installer to reboot and allow the PowerBook to boot into the Mac OS desktop.

Once there, you should see the files in the Macintosh HD.  Move the kernel image over to System Folder-->Linux Kernels.  The initrd image can be wherever you want it (I usually put it in the same place as the kernel).  Delete the kernel you used for the installation or rename it so as not to be confused.  Launch BootX and select the kernel you just copied over from the Linux partition.  Also make sure you select the initrd image you also copied from that Linux partition from within "Options" in BootX.  Once these are set, save the preferences and boot into Linux.  Hopefully you'll see the desktop.

If all you get is a blank screen or a screen with some weird characters, then it's posssible that you need to pass a kernel argument from within bootx to allow you to view the console text on boot.  In the "More kernel arguments:" section, type the following:



> *video=atyfb*


That should give you output of the bootup into Linux.  If not, then you might need to add some resolution options manually.  Here's the link to the Linux PowerPC FAQ-o-matic with all the information you need to pass resolution and color depth information in the kernel arguments section:

http://www.jonh.net/lppcfom-serve/cache/1043.html

I think this will cover everything you need to get it going.  Once you're used to the process, it's a piece of cake.  Incidentally, I've taken on the task of learning FreeBSD on an x86 machine I have.  Talk about feeling like a n00b!  If you have any experience on that, I'd be happy to pick your brain.


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## SAbsar (Sep 9, 2005)

Hey wow! That worked! Thanks! 
Yes I know you posted a link to a /InstallOnOldWorldMacs (right?), but that link was broken  

Anyway... being the linux newbie that I am, I'm not done with my problems  
When I log into the ubuntu system, I get told that Nautilus couldn't start, and panel couldn't start and this couldnt start and that couldn't start! In the end, I'm just stuck with a beige screen with a mouse pointer!  

BUT, I CAN log into the terminal! So, is this a problem with the desktop thing? Is it possible for me to re-install the desktop stuff? I'd especially like to install the KDE desktop instead of the bundled GNOME. I tried mounting a FC4 CD and installing the kde-base RPM package using 'rpm', but I couldn't... any help with that?

Thanks in advance! And thanks for bearing with me!


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## nixgeek (Sep 9, 2005)

Hmm....sounds like you need to reinstall everything.  Just go through the steps I provided.

If you wanted KDE as the desktop environment, you should have downloaded Kubuntu as it uses KDE as its default desktop.  You CAN download KDE into your Ubuntu system, but since you are on dialup it's going to take a while.

Also make sure that the xorg.conf file in /etc/X11 has the right video driver.  It should be in the section called "Device" which is located close to the end of the file.  The driver should be set to "aty" or "r128" depending on the chipset.  Try the "r128" and if that doesn't work change it to "aty".

FC4 and Ubuntu use a different packaging method.  FC4 uses RPM packages and Ubuntu uses .deb packages since it is based off of Debian.  Personally, I prefer the Debian way of doing things with packages.  Apt-get is a wonderful tool, and Synaptic (which is the GTK front-end to apt-get) is just as wonderful.

If you do have command line access as well as network access, you can add the packages using aptitude which is a text-based utility for using apt-get.  From there you can add the KDE packages and download them.  Of course, you would have to add the "universe" section in the repositories listed.  It's just a matter of adding the word "universe" after the word "restricted" for the repositories in the list.


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## SAbsar (Sep 13, 2005)

Hey, thanks for the reply! Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but there was 'khar khar' in my phone line due to rain (yep, Karachi isn't designed for rains at all! )

Turns out there was a problem with my system clock  The date was set to 1905  Now it's working SMOOOOTH! Now I just need to figure out how to connect to the internet


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## nixgeek (Sep 13, 2005)

HAhaaaAHH...sometimes the simplest of things tends to cause the complicated problems. 

Anyways, depending on the desktop environment, you could probably use the GUI tools to configure it.  What distro are you using again?


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## SAbsar (Sep 14, 2005)

Right. I'm on Ubuntu... GNOME desktop


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## nixgeek (Sep 14, 2005)

OK, you can either use the Gnome Networking app to configure the NIC, or you can open up a command shell and try "sudo netconfig."  You should then be prompted for your password and it should launch a text-based wizard to configure the NIC.

Let me know how it goes.


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