# Sexual partners - how many is OK



## MDLarson (May 16, 2003)

The question is; for your spouse or future spouse, how many sexual partners before yourself would you accept or be OK with?  I heard an outrageous statistic that I will disclose a little later in the thread...

p.s.  My vote is "None."


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## RacerX (May 16, 2003)

I think it is hard to say. In an ideal world it would be nice if the first was also the last. That we always found the right person and they would never change and we all lived happily ever after.

We don't live in an ideal world and people go their own ways after promising to be together forever. 

It takes two people to make a relationship work... but only one to end it on the spot.

So Matt, if your wife finds that you are not the one for her, are you not going to remarry? If your wife dies, are you not going to remarry?

You're still too young to know this yet, but life has a lot it can throw at you, and absolutes means you'll be taking it on the chin with every surprise.


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## Androo (May 16, 2003)

hahahaha i said 51 and over so that SOMEONE would vote for it... i think 1-5 is fine. Once you have like a million... then you're just one crazy dude, with a crazy dudey habbit.


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## edX (May 16, 2003)

i said 51 and over because i really believe that the past doesn't matter in such things. it is what you have together and the future you create together. if you ask me how many times is it ok to cheat once you're together- i'd say none. but the past is something you didn't share, so who cares?

plus, i'd be pretty hypocritical to expect different standards for a woman than i did for myself.


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## JetwingX (May 16, 2003)

at a time or in a lifetime???


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## MDLarson (May 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *So Matt, if your wife finds that you are not the one for her, are you not going to remarry? If your wife dies, are you not going to remarry?
> 
> You're still too young to know this yet, but life has a lot it can throw at you, and absolutes means you'll be taking it on the chin with every surprise.*


And so begins another friendly debate!  

Racer, I believe that too often people decide that their current partner "just isn't the *one*."  This line of thinking is usually born out of boredom or frustration with their current spouse, and assumes that the next will be better.  While sometimes this may be true (such as with an abusive relationship,) most people are simply unwilling to make things work.  And for the sake of the argument, I assumed that widow / widower situations did not apply.

One more point:  It seems every time I get into a debate about relatively serious things, I get handed the line "you're too young to know this..." (more or less.)  Well, I'm not going to accept that this time.  I'm 23 now, and I have watched my parents behave like children over the last few years during their divorce.  My two year anniversary is in 3 days.  Granted, I do not have years and years of experience, but I am more mature than I may appear (and I realize that I come off as a sheltered child sometimes.)

But anyway, please keep voting and let's see where we stand...


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## MDLarson (May 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *i said 51 and over because i really believe that the past doesn't matter in such things.*


 Even in the case of STDs?

Jet:  If you're serious... (at a time?!?!)  For clarification, I mean before your _first_ marriage.  That's what I was thinking about when I posted the poll.  This excludes widow / widowers and divorces.


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## edX (May 17, 2003)

matt - you didn't ask "what if the woman you love had an std?" you asked how many previous sexual partners would be acceptable. granted, more probably increases the risk of std, but it is possible to have many partners and still not have a permanent std. 

to be honest, i must admit i got herpes along the way. which turns out is more than just occasional cold sores in the genital areas. but anyone who uses common sense and practises safe sex really has very little to worry about with std. - It doesn't matter if you've had sex with one or a hundred as long as you USE A CONDOM!! EVERY TIME!!!!  

btw matt - at 45 i'm still too young to understand alot of things that my 90 year old grandmother does but i'm hoping to live long enough to find most of them out. yes - age does have a lot to do with understanding a lot of things and it keeps changing our understanding of things as we go. don't get too hung up on it, you're entitled to be however old you are and have whatever limitations go with it. the true sign of being old enough to know is when you get old enough to realize that you don't know everything yet and couldn't possibly untill you've gone thru more.


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## Giaguara (May 17, 2003)

i'd go for past doesn't matter as well. if i'd got married with someone who was 30 or over and he still would be a virgin i would think there's something wrong .. either he'd be a religious freak of some kind or a fag. 

if you think it's not ok to do something before marriage, get married young then. if you'll wait untill 30 it's (the sex) is not going to get any better.  i'm not saying "do it when you are 13", i didn't do anything before i was 20-something .. and i've never been the first for anyone. if i'd happen to be .. i'd maybe freak out. "i don't care" is my option ..


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## Giaguara (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson
> _  For clarification, I mean before your _first_ marriage.


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## RacerX (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> Racer, I believe that too often people decide that their current partner "just isn't the one ."  This line of thinking is usually born out of boredom or frustration with their current spouse, and assumes that the next will be better.  While sometimes this may be true (such as with an abusive relationship,) most people are simply unwilling to make things work.



There in lies the problem. Until you have been in a failed relationship, you are really in no place to judge what the causes of one are. You don't know from first hand experience what happens, what lead to the end, and how it effects those involved until you have been their yourself (something I truly hope you never need to experience). No failed relationship should be classified using the term _usually_. Like each successful relationship, it is the coupling of two unique individuals making every situation unique and wholly _un_usual.



> One more point:  It seems every time I get into a debate about relatively serious things, I get handed the line "you're too young to know this..." (more or less.)  Well, I'm not going to accept that this time.  I'm 23 now, and ...



You can accept it. When I was 23 I had been married for 3 years (that started in a serious relationship almost 5 years before). At that point in time I thought very much like you are now. I watched my parents (mother, father, stepfathers, stepmothers) divorcing left and right (every one of them had at least two divorces). I said I would not go down that path.

6 years later I found out that if someone in the relationship wants to go down that path, there is nothing the other can do to stop it. I speak from experience. I speak knowing where you are now knowing I was there when I was your age. You haven't had enough experience to know the full weight of this subject.

From the age of 0 to 29 years, the only person I was with was my wife. From 31 to 35 years of age (present) I've only been with my wife (present wife). I, like before, truly believe this relationship is going to last forever. But I don't hold any special moral judgments on the issue specially as relationships are the one thing that the best of intentions on any one persons part can not save.


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## anerki (May 17, 2003)

Well, the average time a marriage lasts is 7 years, this excludes the time they had a relationship before they got married. But that doesn't really matter, as long as you're both working towards a good marriage I don't think it can fail, well as long as you're not completely different people that is.

I had a relationship of two years that ended in septembre 2002, still not past that sadly enough, even though I've been with someone else since then. She wasn't the first girl I had sex with, and I wasn't her first. Doesn't matter now does it? Like edX and Giaguara said, the past doesn't matter in such things ...


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## toast (May 17, 2003)

I personnally voted for 'It doesn't care', meaning that 1-5 is okay but that 51+ is great too.

I won't reach 90 years-old like Ed; life is short, very short, and I'm a life mass-consumer


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## anerki (May 17, 2003)

Well, look at it like this, wouldn't you prefer learning to drive in a used car?


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## Ugg (May 17, 2003)

It really doesn't matter.  I think age has a lot to do with it but not in the way you think.  If I was 18 and dating an 18 year old then 1-5 is probably my answer, however, I'm 40 so it really doesn't matter.  If the other person was a sex junkie then yes it would but for the most part, it is not important.  I would say that the most important thing was that the sex that person had in the past was good sex, sex that was wanted not forced upon them.


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## applewhore (May 17, 2003)

"Well, look at it like this, wouldn't you prefer learning to drive in a used car?"

anerki - honestly, no!

I wouldn't really care about the car...  i'd be quite happy for it to be brand new...

I would care about the teacher though!  Certainly, in the case of my driving instructor, I was glad she had "driven" before...

 

(sorry, I couldn't help playing with that comparison, even though I know it's not strictly fair!   )


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## MDLarson (May 17, 2003)

Well, it is clear I composed this poll not entirely knowing my target audience.  (Ed must have added the "It doesn't matter" option!  )

I believe sex is a place for intimacy, not just simply a "fun thing to do."  I believe a person should save him or herself for their future spouse - make it special!





> and i've never been the first for anyone. if i'd happen to be .. i'd maybe freak out


Giaguara, what if that person was saving his virginity for you?  Would you laugh or respect and honor that decision?

Racer, I understand your point - I haven't experienced a personal tragedy with my wife (like a divorce.)  But I would rather not hear about my age; instead, I would much prefer any "inexperience" to be evident in the argument.  I mean, if I really am naïve about some of this stuff, I'd rather admit it than have somebody tell me that.  Does that make sense?  

Thanks for the discussion so far, it's been enlightening for sure.


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## Giaguara (May 17, 2003)

Used car example sucks. Or does it apply only for girls? I did not choose my sex, so i have never liked any of those things where a different (moral) behaviour is expected from you according to your sucks. Why girls or women are 'cheap' if they have had more relationships, and the males are only 'masculine' or 'viril' with that same type of behaviour? I still say i've never been the first of anyone (the first was 9 y older than me) and i'd probably just freak out if i discovered one day i'd be ..


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## Decado (May 17, 2003)

Does the poll mean "at the same time", or "ever"? 
To answer the first: i dont like it when she has more than me (i have been in that kind of relationship, where she sneaked home to her boyfriend/man every morning so he would think she had slept there all night). Its annoying and kills you emotionally. 
With my first girlfriend we were both new to the task, so to speak. And now, though we have not been together for three years (except from time to time. she's the sneaking home to her boyfriend-girl), it really freaks me out thinking of her being with others. With my current girlfriend who is twenty-six (three years older than me) i dont really care that much, and i will probably never ask her. I just want her to have cared for anyone she had done it with.

Just to clear things up: i have never been unfaithful. just happens to get together with my first everytime someone breaks up with me and i break up with them.

isay: the fewer the better. but i have to draw the line at 10. My goal is not to sleep with as many as possible, and i hope that have not been the goal of my girlfriend either, cuz that would have been a huge thing we wouldnt have in common.


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## anerki (May 17, 2003)

The used car example is actually a simple joke in Dutch: "Op een oude fiets moet je leren rijden".

But what do you do if you marry someone and have sex for the first time (and neither of you have done it before) and you realise you're totally not compatible with eachother?


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## Decado (May 17, 2003)

well, last time i checked, most men and women (if we speak hetero-marriages here) are compatible  if none of them have had any experience then they wont have any reference and they will be "compatible" with eachother. I'm EXTREAMLY compatible with my first girlfriend, cuz we have had such a long time getting tuned to eachother.


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## anerki (May 17, 2003)

I'm happy for you two then 

But do you want to spend all that time when you're married? I'd prefer to do that before getting married ...


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## MDLarson (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by anerki _
> *But what do you do if you marry someone and have sex for the first time (and neither of you have done it before) and you realise you're totally not compatible with eachother?*


Hmm, well, I thought that would be cleared up in the dating stage, but if you're talking about sexual disfunction... (are you?)

I'm pleased at how open to discussion you all are.  I'm gonna give this thread 5 stars!


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## anerki (May 17, 2003)

Well, it can be just about anything. Malfunctions, or even just not enjoying it. I don't know about the others and I certainly don't want this to sound typically male or anything like that but I want the woman I marry be able to please me and I her. And I want to know that before I get married. If it doesn't go on the first time, no problem, but that's a problem that should be out of the way at least by the time you get married. I don't know about others or how it goes but a girl I dated for a couple of months, we had sex before I fully trusted her and before I knew it was gonna become sth beautiful. (of course a couple of days after I said to myself "this is gonna work out" she cheated on me so hey, sh*t does happen )


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## chevy (May 17, 2003)

I voted "doesn't matter": I shall marry her to live our future together, not our past !


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## MDLarson (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *I voted "doesn't matter": I shall marry her to live our future together, not our past ! *


 Although I voted "None," I can definately appreciate and understand this viewpoint, even if our views about it are different.  For instance, I consider it an act of forgiveness to overlook the past.  Others (like Giaguara) may be thankful for a more experienced partner.


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## Giaguara (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *what if that person was saving his virginity for you?  Would you laugh or respect and honor that decision? *



i would sure not laugh. supposing the guy was about my age, i'd maybe feel frustrated though.. even knowing i would have been the only love of their life, .. i would respect their moral and attitude - but i would feel quite freak. hug if you feel like hugging, get a massage if you feel like and not only because of fibromyalgia but just feeling like, kiss and hug the people you like. i don't like bitching around but .. once you feel you are ready for something go for it. either we only live once, or we live more than once but we still have to start from zero ... ::love::

btw, it wasn't ed but me that added "i don't care". ::angel::


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## Giaguara (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *Although I voted "None," I can definately appreciate and understand this viewpoint, even if our views about it are different.  For instance, I consider it an act of forgiveness to overlook the past.  Others (like Giaguara) may be thankful for a more experienced partner. *



hey hey this feels weird especially because i'm a girl and *statistically* catholic and i have to explain my point of view..? i don't think getting married will be the biggest thing in my life (it might resolve the green card problem so i might get married for that ... not just to get sex). i never dreamed being married or my weddings being the luckiest day of my life. i do have a wedding fobia (especially if they would be mine). and i was sure older than at least 80 % of people in italy when they did anything more than a kiss .. it has its reasons. not maybe moral (my own moral yes, not moral in the common purgatory sense). i had loved a guy that died when i was young, and everytime i liked anyone, i remembered too painful things from my past .. in the end it was always me that apologized for me feeling bad. in the end it was easier to avoid everything untill meeting someone i felt would have been the one of my life. when ever you or the person you love feel ready to do whatever, listen to your body more than the externally imposed moral. i say and say i'd freak out if i'd ever be the first to anyone but maybe it'd be just cool if it wasn0t a surprise for me .. i just so deeply think it doesn0t matter. ::angel::


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## edX (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *Although I voted "None," I can definately appreciate and understand this viewpoint, even if our views about it are different.  For instance, I consider it an act of forgiveness to overlook the past.  *




matt- i'm proud you could say this. when you said none, the thoughts about 'aren't you supposed to be forgiving' came to my mind. let me also say that i can respect that it all happened for you the way you expected. consider yourself one of the very lucky ones because for most people it doesn't work out that way. too many variables, too many different expectations, etc. And for some of us, the hardest part is learning to forgive yourself for life not being like you planned it. in the end it might all be good. i certainly have had experiences you probably never will that i think added something positive to my life. i think there is also something positive about having it work out like it did for you. i don't think there's any right or wrong here, but a matter of making the best out of what life deals you and what you want back in return.


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## chevy (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *Although I voted "None," I can definately appreciate and understand this viewpoint, even if our views about it are different.  For instance, I consider it an act of forgiveness to overlook the past.  Others (like Giaguara) may be thankful for a more experienced partner. *



Isn't love forgiving ? I'll probably have lots of other things to forgive, and she'll have too


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## anerki (May 18, 2003)

Love is many things, most importantly, trust


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## chevy (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by anerki _
> *Love is many things, most importantly, trust *



trust is important, not sufficient.


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## anerki (May 18, 2003)

Now that's why I said many things now didn't I


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## fryke (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *if i'd got married with someone who was 30 or over and he still would be a virgin i would think there's something wrong .. either he'd be a religious freak of some kind or a fag. *



I don't know many virgins who claim they're gay. So 'fag' would be a strange term to use in this context. ;-)


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## fryke (May 18, 2003)

On topic... I've had sex with seven women so far, and I don't expect my next girlfriend or my future wife to have had any less or more, i.e.: I don't really care. I'm pretty sure I won't fall in love BECAUSE  of the number of sexual partners she'll have had, I'm also pretty sure I wouldn't turn a woman down because she'd had less or more than myself.

My longest relationship was about three years, and we both were virgins when we started having sex. Must say: It was a wonderful experience to learn together. However later in life I also found out that there ARE women that are more compatible with me. And it's certainly an important part of the life together.


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## Giaguara (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *I don't know many virgins who claim they're gay. So 'fag' would be a strange term to use in this context. ;-) *



Well... lets say fags that claim to be (hetero AND) virgins on a moment that if they weren't they'd probably be trying to do somethign else. None of the gays i've met have said to be virgins but none of them has either tried to do anything with me. ::angel::


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## toast (May 18, 2003)

Oh... Is Gia is going to tell us some obscure side of her personal history right now ? 

---

When I saw this topic, I thought the question was 'how many partners *at a time* ? But when I saw the poll options, I conceived what you really meant. I mean, 51+ simultaneous people in one sole bed is a lot.


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## Giaguara (May 18, 2003)

Heh. Yea, that's what i was thinking as well toast. I prefer to have 1 at a time.


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## Ugg (May 18, 2003)

MD have you gotten the response you expected?  You said you had something more to reveal, and I for one am honestly looking forward to it.  I may not agree with you much but your posts are always thought provoking.


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## toast (May 18, 2003)

*Ugg*: You mean provocative ? 

*Gia*: Ah ha ! I'm only 19 and I'm not going to learn you more on the topic, but trust me, you live only once (even cats like you, Gia).


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## Jason (May 18, 2003)

virgin here, and my vote is, i really dont care, the past is the past, some people have sex for different reasons than others....

am i saving myself for marriage? no. but i am saving myself for it to be right, im not gonna have sex for sex sake, there has to be love, and thats something that has been lacking in many previous relationships

and for the record, i very well might end up being 30 and being a virgin, or lose it in a couple months, who knows, i dont think age is something to judge on gia


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## Giaguara (May 18, 2003)

the past is past. every guy i've loved ... i loved them on the moment i loved them (yes i know the translation sucks but i don't even mind to try to translate it correctly. the frase above is more correct). and hey ... for not misinterpreting me: when i was studying + working in UK, i never went out more than twice with any guy. i didn't feel like having sex with anyone i met, nor felt i comfortable asking any of the guys directly "how many times can i go out with you if i don't want to end up in embarassing situations trying to avoid going in bed with you (i am not going to)??"


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## Jason (May 18, 2003)

yeah thats a crappy situation women get put into these days.... sad really


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## MDLarson (May 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ugg _
> *MD have you gotten the response you expected?  You said you had something more to reveal, and I for one am honestly looking forward to it.  I may not agree with you much but your posts are always thought provoking. *


Thanks for the reminder - I had sort of been impressed with the discussion and had forgotten about it.

I was actually just going to state the statistics that people had given for that poll (that I heard on the radio.)  From memory:  Guys thought girls with less than 10 encounters was OK.  Girls thought less than 50 was OK.  The numbers kind of caught me off-guard, but the difference between guys and girls' responses was startling to me as well.  I didn't even think to include the "Doesn't matter" option.

To understand my reaction, you must understand my worldview (which some of you may have clashed with already  )  The majority of people I interact with are Christians.  Generally, we all have the same belief system.  Generally, we all agree with God's law (forgive me if I'm being too forward - just stating my beliefs) that sex should wait until marriage.  Sex _should_ be between two people, and only two people.

So that's about it with me. ::love::

I don't agree with a few here myself, but I find this forum to be a nice area to talk to non-Christians openly.  It makes me a more well-rounded person.


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## Ugg (May 18, 2003)

I like this forum because it is never a matter of "preaching to the choir"  well, except on why macs are the best  

I'm surprised that the difference is so great, is it because women are more accepting of one's past or are they conditioned to accept it?  

I think that Gia's statement about dating and sex is just as important though, that dating = sex.  That is just wrong.  

Being gay I can tell you there is a lot of pressure to just jump into the sack without even that formality.  Life is more than what is between your legs.


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## Giaguara (May 18, 2003)

i have seen some crappy guides for women - american guides - where there was stated something like "if you are not in bed with the guy after the 3rd date, forget him". it seemed so contrary to my point of view that i was scared.. and i never had the courage to ask any guy i went out with in UK. "how many times can i go out with you before you try anything or simply suppose i'm supposed to **** with you?" that gets to simple contrary statements as well: i don't want anything "more" than just going out: either i never go out with anyone or i go out once or twice with a guy (i'd never do this in italy. instead of being safely not of the property of anyone i'd be just categorized as "one who goes out with everybody" with this tactique, and in most cased the neighbors don't just take care of only their own business). i hate to be in the situation i have to consider whether i am supposed to do something ot not so the simpliest solution... i avoid finding myself in the situations that lead to that consideration. (read: when not in relation i rarely go out with anybody).


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## anerki (May 19, 2003)

This all sounds weird, but if I got go out with someone I'm sure of (meaning that I'm sure I can start a relationship with her if I wanted to), chances are we end up in bed on the end of the night if she's virgin are very big. Not to say almost 99% ... It's just strange, the threshold for sex that woman care about is the same as men. Only I don't care for cheap sex like that, I'll take the long-term relationship please  With extra fries


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## toast (May 19, 2003)

If I can recommend just one book to everyone   

I love it !


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## TommyWillB (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *matt - you didn't ask "what if the woman you love had an std?"...*


He also didn't specify that your "partner" was a "woman".


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## TommyWillB (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *...Either he'd be a religious freak of some kind or a fag. *


HEY!




> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *I don't know many virgins who claim they're gay. So 'fag' would be a strange term to use in this context. ;-) *


I've known a gay "virgin" or two, but I've never met a Gay celibate!


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## Giaguara (May 23, 2003)

Tommy i didn't mean my comment to be anti-fag, sorry. Just finding a guy around his 30s or over, never been with a woman (or a man) and trying to approach me.. ? I just think there's something wrong, like either  that guy has to be a religious freak of any kind (and i run away), or he has to be not interested in women at all etc.


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## Jason (May 23, 2003)

not really true... im waiting until a good loving long term relationship before i lose my virginity, no if's, and's or but's... ive gone out with many women, nothings worked out to that level yet, and its possible that will never happen for me, but that doesnt mean i'm not interested in women...

(but im only 22 so i havent hit your 30 mark yet )

and further more... while i'm just sticking to my standards... there are others that are just very very shy, and others that are plain ugly or whatever etc etc, doesnt mean they arent interested, they just can't land a lay


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## toast (May 24, 2003)

Standards ?

*runs away*


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## Jason (May 25, 2003)

didnt say they were all faultless... i just stick to em


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## toast (May 25, 2003)

LOL !


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## Giaguara (May 29, 2003)

Hey hey ... being in America: "Does oral sex count?"


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## Jason (May 29, 2003)

uh...


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## Ugg (May 29, 2003)

well, supposedly, a lot of high school kids don't think so.  Jason, you're a little closer to that age I am, what was it like where you went to school? or was that something that got talked about very much?


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## AdmiralAK (May 30, 2003)

Interesting subject...
When I had my first real girlfriend, and thus my real first encounter, I wanted to know EVERYTHING about her past... big mistake. At the moment I think that ignorance is bliss  So long as the girl is healthy and she cannot gimme anything bad I am happy.

I think that once your significant other knows your sexual history, it is always the case that you had "one to many". I safelly assume that if she has dated 10 people that she probably was active with at least 6.


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## edX (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Hey hey ... being in America: "Does oral sex count?"  *



maybe we should ask the Clintons. 

i'm guessing Bill and Hillary would have different answers.


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## Giaguara (May 30, 2003)

So do we need one more poll to decide if oral sex counts in all these sex polls?


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## Jason (May 30, 2003)

uh...


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## hazmat (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *So do we need one more poll to decide if oral sex counts in all these sex polls?   *



Huh.  I took it as sexual intercourse partners.


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## TommyWillB (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Hey hey ... being in America: "Does oral sex count?"  *


Not unless there is also a cigar involved...


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## Giaguara (May 30, 2003)

Heh.  damn, i need to modify my vote then ...


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