# Virtual Desktops



## whitesaint (Apr 29, 2002)

Hi.  I've been building up a project for quite a while now.  I would like some feedback on it.  Feel free to give this application to anyone and everyone.  Please remember this is just beta!  I am aware there are quite a few bugs in it.  Well enough talk...download it below.

http://homepage.mac.com/whitesaint/Desktop_Manager.sit


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## symphonix (Apr 29, 2002)

It seemed promising right up until "Pressing next will make the program quit, please restart it..." Then, everything I had in my desktop folder vanished, including the download directory that contained the program!

 

Help me! Where has it put my stuff?

I would be happy to help you straighten out some of the interface issues later, but first you gotta fix this up!


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## whitesaint (Apr 29, 2002)

lol.  Yeah one of the things about my virtual desktops program is it keeps all different files on different desktops.  You can find Desktop Manager in ~/Library/Application Support/Desktop Manager/

Sorry about the dilemma.


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## symphonix (Apr 29, 2002)

Phew! For a minute there I thought I'd be needing to dig out my backup disks! Thanks for the save!

Okay ... you'll have to design this thing on the assumption that _some_ idiots might like to have a download folder on their desktop.  

I'll give you a full review / ideas and whatever soon, okay?


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## whitesaint (Apr 29, 2002)

okay thanks.  Let me know EVERYTHING on your mind about this.


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## symphonix (Apr 29, 2002)

Okay, yeah there's a couple of minor bugs, which you may or may not have seen yet. However this does actually work and runs quickly most of the time, even on my iBook 500.

Finder windows seem to stay open in the same place regardless of which desktop you're on, and will jump to the front of their own accord.

I'd like it if you had an option to lock the resize sliders in the preferences, so that you don't have to keep fiddling to get the proportions right. Perhaps just make it one large slider.
Also in preferences, you have a transparency slider which, when it is slid all the way to the right, means "no transperancy at all" and all the way to the left means "completely transparent." This seems a little back-to-front to me.
Also, you could make the preferences dialogues a fair bit smaller.

I hope you are coding this with the option of adding more desktops at a later time. Having one virtual desktop seems a little weak. Also, it would be nice if this could be a dockling, with the alternate desktop appearing as an icon in the dock.

As far as I can see, it automatically hides whatever isn't on the current dektop, and shows what is on, each time you switch. (I have used tinkertool to shade icons of hidden apps in the dock). In the meanwhile, it is snatching an image of your desktop to go in the preview window. All up, it is an efficient and well thought-out design. A little more sense on the set-up and installation is the important thing.

And it is, of course, counter-intuitive to have to pick desktop images again. Why not just use whatever the user is currently using as their desktop? And what happens if someone DOESN'T choose a desktop image in the setup dialogues? (I read the warning that you MUST choose a desktop image for both)

Also, taking a snapshot will cause Finder to restart itself ...


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## gigi (Apr 29, 2002)

thats is quite a fine program....i was a little confused at first but it seems to have a lot of promise.
i think maybe you should tell people that their desktop will be moved to ~/Library/Application Support/Desktop Manager/  when the program starts for the  first time


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## Trip (Apr 29, 2002)

Howdy,
It's a good application, in my opinion. And the idea behind it is really nice for major businesses, or home activity...using Photoshop with this little application has been more than awsome for me! But I'd like to see a few things change:

The window which shows the other desktop(s) should have a setting in the Preferences were users can select if the window will be a global floating window, or just a regular floating window...it got in my way a couple of times.

And also support for more desktops! That would be sweet! Imagine working with over 10 screens on the same computer/monitor. I could get A LOT more work done A LOT faster that way!

Anyway, thanks for the good app! It's awsome!


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## adambyte (Apr 30, 2002)

Oh my God... I downloaded it... and it's the craziest App EVER. I'm seriously confused by it... I mean, I know what it's function is, but it just.... hurts my head. The whole picture-in-picture thing seriously screws with my head.

... Wait, now that I've thought about it.... Whitesaint.... all you need to do is add the ability for more desktops, and, instead of making the current (large) desktop shrink down, you should make the other (smaller) desktop grow OUT... I think that would make it less confusing. Or maybe it's just me.


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## whitesaint (Apr 30, 2002)

> Okay, yeah there's a couple of minor bugs, which you may or may not have seen yet. However this does actually work and runs quickly most of the time, even on my iBook 500.



Desktop Manager runs ALOT faster if you are running at lower resolutions, and if you are running thousands of colors.



> Finder windows seem to stay open in the same place regardless of which desktop you're on, and will jump to the front of their own accord.



I can make the finder windows seperate on each desktop, but i think it's better this way.  If they were seperate on each desktop, when you click on the desktop they will pop back up.



> I'd like it if you had an option to lock the resize sliders in the preferences, so that you don't have to keep fiddling to get the proportions right. Perhaps just make it one large slider.
> Also in preferences, you have a transparency slider which, when it is slid all the way to the right, means "no transperancy at all" and all the way to the left means "completely transparent." This seems a little back-to-front to me.
> Also, you could make the preferences dialogues a fair bit smaller.



No problem, I'm on it.


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## whitesaint (Apr 30, 2002)

> I hope you are coding this with the option of adding more desktops at a later time. Having one virtual desktop seems a little weak. Also, it would be nice if this could be a dockling, with the alternate desktop appearing as an icon in the dock.



Yes I've been working soooo hard trying to get more desktops available to the user, but so far this is the hardest programming task I've ever come up with.  I won't give up though, I won't stop until there are at least 4 different virtual desktops.



> All up, it is an efficient and well thought-out design. A little more sense on the set-up and installation is the important thing.



I completely agree.  I already have it being able to control from the system preferences, and no dock Icon in the dock.  I am planning on releasing it with an installer, and Virtual Desktops will always be up on your computer.



> And it is, of course, counter-intuitive to have to pick desktop images again. Why not just use whatever the user is currently using as their desktop? And what happens if someone DOESN'T choose a desktop image in the setup dialogues? (I read the warning that you MUST choose a desktop image for both)



I'm sorry bout that.  I'll look into somthing in the future to sort this out.  Currently, I can't find any way to get the User's current desktop picture.  It won't mess up your system in any way, if the user doesn't pick both desktops.  It just won't work.


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## whitesaint (Apr 30, 2002)

> thats is quite a fine program....i was a little confused at first but it seems to have a lot of promise.
> i think maybe you should tell people that their desktop will be moved to ~/Library/Application Support/Desktop Manager/ when the program starts for the first time



I will address this issue when the Golden Master is shipped.  I will have to make an installer.



> The window which shows the other desktop(s) should have a setting in the Preferences were users can select if the window will be a global floating window, or just a regular floating window...it got in my way a couple of times.



In order for the animation to work, it has to be floating on top of everything else.  I am planning to making Status Item in the menu bar with your virutal desktops (i.e.  sound, displays, battery).



> And also support for more desktops! That would be sweet! Imagine working with over 10 screens on the same computer/monitor. I could get A LOT more work done A LOT faster that way!



Still working on it, pray for me...



> Anyway, thanks for the good app! It's awsome!



Thank you , seriously this encourages me alot more to work harder on this


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## whitesaint (Apr 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by adambyte _
> *Oh my God... I downloaded it... and it's the craziest App EVER. I'm seriously confused by it... I mean, I know what it's function is, but it just.... hurts my head. The whole picture-in-picture thing seriously screws with my head.
> 
> ... Wait, now that I've thought about it.... Whitesaint.... all you need to do is add the ability for more desktops, and, instead of making the current (large) desktop shrink down, you should make the other (smaller) desktop grow OUT... I think that would make it less confusing. Or maybe it's just me. *



Okay,  I'm considering whether I should give it a Utility window title bar, but it will go about twice as slow.

If the smaller virtual deskop grows out, it will cause alot of problems, more functionality wise then appearance wise.  For instance, if the small virtual desktop grows out, what about the miniature desktop...?  It won't be there anymore...


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## adambyte (Apr 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by whitesaint _
> *If the smaller virtual deskop grows out, it will cause alot of problems, more functionality wise then appearance wise.  For instance, if the small virtual desktop grows out, what about the miniature desktop...?  It won't be there anymore... *



Hmm.... good point. I mean, I suppose you could have a "smallest" picture already inside the "small" desktop, but that would be a coding feat unto itself. Kinda the same effect when you put to mirrors facing each other, and then you go in between... it goes to infinity. Overall, though, this app is starting to grow on me.


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## Trip (Apr 30, 2002)

During 8th period at school today I was thinking about his great application and I have some questions to ask ya, if ya don't mind that is! If you don't want to answer in public (?) just e-mail me the answers here: flip180@mac.com


Questions:
1) How did you come up with the idea for this application? What are you programming it in? Cocoa is what it looks like from my point of view!

2) Do you plan on selling it? I'm sure you could make quite a  bit money off of a pro version, then let a free home version go around the web. I would be willing to pay quite a bit of money for this application!

Comments:
1) KEEP US UPDATED WITH NEW RELEASES!!! 

2) This really is a cool/good application, i love it!!!

Thanks for your time!


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## whitesaint (May 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Trip _
> *During 8th period at school today I was thinking about his great application and I have some questions to ask ya, if ya don't mind that is! If you don't want to answer in public (?) just e-mail me the answers here: flip180@mac.com
> 
> 
> ...



Well the idea was partly mine.  Also about a hundred others too.  I read all over the net that people wanted Virtual Desktops for OS X.  So I decided I would build it.  And yes, I am programming it in Cocoa mainly.  Also Carbon calls, Apple events, and applescript.

I've never used Virtual Desktops on Linux before but I decided I would make it.  And yes, when it is finished, I am planning on selling it.  Thanks for your interest trip.


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## symphonix (May 1, 2002)

> I've never used Virtual Desktops on Linux before



I guess that explains why your implementation took us so much by surprise. Most of the linux / X-windows virtual desktop systems involve dragging the mouse to the edge of a screen to flip over to the next desktop. Your solution seems a lot more elegant.

However, if you could work out a way to have the display grow out of the preview, then that would be a good solution. I assume the preview is generated from a snapshot of the screen when you switch away from it, so it should have a snapshot of the other preview in it already. Sure, it won't match up, but just having your program refresh the preview after the swap would be okay. It would make a lot more sense when you are working with several desktops.


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## whitesaint (May 1, 2002)

Trip, I'd rather discuss it in Public actually.  Well Im looking for a business partner, I'm also trying to start my own software business.  By the way, do you think the application would be better or worse with a utility window title bar?  Or do you think i should leave it the way it is?  Thanks for the input.


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## xaqintosh (May 8, 2002)

I just want to comment that this is a great piece of software, and I can't wait for you to finish it. It is a really great utility> Here are some ideas:

1. Make it into a System pref.

2. Make it into a dockling

3. Make it into a menubar item

keep up the good work


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## whitesaint (May 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *I just want to comment that this is a great piece of software, and I can't wait for you to finish it. It is a really great utility> Here are some ideas:
> 
> 1. Make it into a System pref.
> ...



Hey thanks    System Pref:  On it's way,  Menubar Item:  On its way  
Thanks for the kudos.


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## goynang (May 10, 2002)

Hi,

Thought I'd chip in with my thoughts too.

I like it!

As others have said, it would be good to have more than just one extra desktop but still pretty cool none the less.

Personally I'd like the desktop switcher in the dock - but I do like the little mini-desktop pic so don't know how you'd work that with multiple desktops and just one dock icon!

Keep up the good work.

When's then next test version ready??

Goynang.


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## Trip (May 10, 2002)

I really doubt with the current version of OS X that this is possible, but I was thinking about it and thought it would be SWEET if you could also support Classic desktops as well! I mean...it's hard to explain. But it's like if you clicked on the little desktop it would go into classic mode and show the classic desktop.

Yea, your right. too hard. Getting support from classic to osx and such. *sigh*


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## whitesaint (May 10, 2002)

Um Trip, it already supports classic apps.


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## xaqintosh (May 12, 2002)

I think what trip means is that it would be really cool if you could have on click access from OS 9 to X without restarting. In other words, you click on a virtual desktop and it automatically shows you the Mac OS 9 Desktop, complete with all icons, the classic menubar, and FULL OS 9 compatibility and functionality. Then, you click another virtual desktop, and you're back in X with the dock, menubar, etc.

P.S. It would be really cool, but not on this application. I think it would work on some kind of Virtual PC app, (Virtual Classic?)


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## xaqintosh (May 13, 2002)

Also, do you think you could make this compatible with changedesktop or desktoprandomizer? In fact, it would be great if you could incorporate a feature that would let you change the desktop at login or every 1/2 hour or whatever and make sure none of the virtual desktops have the same picture. 
(Sorry if I'm being annoying with all the somewhat useless ideas)


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## whitesaint (May 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *Also, do you think you could make this compatible with changedesktop or desktoprandomizer? In fact, it would be great if you could incorporate a feature that would let you change the desktop at login or every 1/2 hour or whatever and make sure none of the virtual desktops have the same picture.
> (Sorry if I'm being annoying with all the somewhat useless ideas) *




Yeah no problem.  Once i get more virtual desktops working, this will be a snap to program.  And no, you are not being annoying.  I absolutely love ideas!     The more the better.  Thanks for the input.


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## xaqintosh (May 13, 2002)

ok, kl


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## xaqintosh (May 14, 2002)

Hi. I was just thinking about how to change desktops, and I figured you could incorporate a program called "changedesktop" into your app. It has the source code included, and I'm sure the author wouldn't mind (ask him though, if you do it, just in case) You can get it at:
http://www.versiontracker.com/


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## ksuther (May 14, 2002)

Changing desktops is really easy, I doubt you'll need the code from ChangeDesktop. It could help though. There might even be an AppleScript command to do so, but I may be mistaken. I thought I saw one though...


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## xaqintosh (May 14, 2002)

I realize that it would be easy, but it would be great for Window manager to have all of the features of changedesktop, which are absloutely great.


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## voice- (May 28, 2002)

Finally tried this. I have a few complaints coming to mind, you've heard them before. First of all, there was the stuff on my desktop just saying bye-bye. That ****ed me off, even if it is in Library/App Supp/VD...I don't wanna loose stuff like this without a warning.

Then there's the preview. That bothers me big-time. Put it in the dock and make me right-click to change.

OR put it up on the top of the screen with the sound/monitor/battery-stuff.


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## whitesaint (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *Finally tried this. I have a few complaints coming to mind, you've heard them before. First of all, there was the stuff on my desktop just saying bye-bye. That ****ed me off, even if it is in Library/App Supp/VD...I don't wanna loose stuff like this without a warning.
> 
> Then there's the preview. That bothers me big-time. Put it in the dock and make me right-click to change.
> ...



Don't worry, the next test version, when it is ready (probably in about a month/ month and a half) will have an installer (that doesn't take the files off the desktop),  preferences will be in system preferences, will have 4 desktops (hopefully), and the previews for the desktops will be miniaturizable into a menu bar item, and there will be no more dock icon.  I will have all of these things done really soon in about a week except the 4 different desktops.

-whitesaint


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## Trip (May 28, 2002)

whitesaint: You are programming this with Cocoa right? I assume in Apple's ProjectBuilder...

...I was wondering if you could write up a few quick tutorials for us newbies if you ever get the time! That'd be so great!


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## xaqintosh (May 28, 2002)

Trip, you have 666 posts, is that on purpose? I attached a picture:


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## zots (May 28, 2002)

I really want to try your app, but I am going to wait until the next release because I dont want my DT items moved.  I second the motion for some tutorials if you have the time.  Also one question, have you taken any classes to learn cocoa or have you learned it from books/documentation?


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## rubberchicken (May 29, 2002)

Nice.

I use an iMac and find the screen pic a little large even at 1204 by 768.  Pushing it off the edge of the screen helps. I tend to keep my desktop clear of files except for what I am currently using so no problem there. I too would like an alternate method of switching screens. I have no particular preference as long as the desktop is kept clear. My statements are in no way meant to be demands I am stating my preferences. I installed xdarwin and afterstep. The virtual dtops on afterstep are a pain in the bottom.

This program feels right. That statement may not be too helpful but it works the way I think it should. I tend to trust my gut feeling and use something if I like it.


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## fintler (May 29, 2002)

I don't mean to bust your bubble or anything..but http://space.sourceforge.net/ is a little dock app for multiple desktops, and it's been out for a while now


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## ksuther (May 29, 2002)

Yes, the goal of this was to make something a bit more functional than space.dock


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## zots (May 30, 2002)

I tried it out.  Pretty cool so far.  Is there a way to make an app run kind of like a system extension does in classic.  It would be cool if this could run not as an application but more like a part of the OS that could be turned on/off.  Can that be done?


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## Trip (May 30, 2002)

Ugh, I need Cocoa help.


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## ksuther (May 30, 2002)

Well, what kind of help? Start a new thread and ask some questions!


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## whitesaint (Jun 1, 2002)

how does this look?  Ill be releasing it sooner than i thought.  I already have 4 full different desktops working.

http://cocoaserver.com/desktopmanager.jpg 
- whitesaint


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## xaqintosh (Jun 1, 2002)

I like it!

where'd you get that background, I want it too!


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## zots (Jun 1, 2002)

looks good.  i assume the four box icon in the toolbar is your app.  can you close the 4 mini dt windows and switch dt's using that toolbar?


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## Trip (Jun 1, 2002)

überleet, WhiteSaint!
Keep up the awsome work man! It's really looking great, except for those backround...lol...they look like their from the 60's!


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