# iChatAV -- Cool, but useless



## mightyjlr (Jun 23, 2003)

iChatAV looks like a great piece of software.  It is however, useless.  I suspect that there are many people here in the same situation as me.  I have a Mac and iChatAV.  The problem is that I don't know a single other person that has a Mac, and there are 150 people on my buddy list.  Unless Apple releases iChatAV for windows, I will never get to use the cool features of this program.  At least they added spell check, and a text box that automatically expands.  Anyone else going to have the same problem?


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## serpicolugnut (Jun 23, 2003)

Maybe you didn't see the Keynote, but iChat AV uses established standards for both the audio and video transfers. So, theoretically, AOL, MSN, or any other 3rd party could implement the ability to communicate with iChat AV in to their application. 

I've used video conferencing on Windows, and man - I can tell you - it's cool, but it's more trouble than what it's worth. I show this implementation to 3 family members in different parts of the country and tell them how we can talk for free, or even video conference for free and they can see my new daughter anytime they wish, and they will be lining up to buy a new Mac for that purpose alone.

Useless? Hardly.


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## WinWord10 (Jun 23, 2003)

It's not compatible with my camera (a Logitech Pro 3000), which does work with other programs on my mac.

I also have near 200 people on my buddy list, one of which is another mac user. I can voice-chat with him, but video won't work for either of us.

Has anyone had any success getting the video function to work? If you have, what camera are you using (obviously isight would work but I mean 3rd party cameras).


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## bobw (Jun 23, 2003)

Video seems to work for me, at least I can see my pic in the preferences. I have a FirewireDirect Firewire webcam.

Anyone want to test, my .mac.com name is maktek.


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## WinWord10 (Jun 23, 2003)

I don't have a .mac account, but my AIM name is ** Edited  ** .

lol just don't want to be recieving voice chats all night. 
No problem if you already did... it was kinda fun talking to other macosx.com users actually =)


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## bobw (Jun 23, 2003)

I've been using ISPQ for video conferencing, and that works very well and is cross platform.


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## WinWord10 (Jun 23, 2003)

I'll try that... it would just be nice to be able to do this in ichat.


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## WinWord10 (Jun 23, 2003)

cool ispq _is_ compatible with my camera =)

thx


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## bobw (Jun 23, 2003)

Was just talking to lonny on iChat. Audio is great, but he doesn't have a compatible camera. I believe it only works with Firewire cameras.


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## lonny (Jun 23, 2003)

Worked really well... considering it's a beta, one can only hope it will get even better!


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## wingzero1285 (Jun 23, 2003)

I find iChat useless until they get the damn buddyicon sizes fixed and have autoreponse for chats.


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## sukram (Jun 23, 2003)

This has got to be one of the most frustrating things I have had with Apple since I made the great switch to OS X.  I  have been waiting for this program for 2 years and suddenly they say that the only way for it to work is with a FIREWIRE CAMERA?!?!?!

I have USB iKritter camera that works great with iVISIT. WHY can't Apple do the same?   I can't stand  iVisit because its bulky and messy, this is what I need!!!!


Apple, please let us use our USB cameras!!!! How hard can it be???   ARGGHGHGHHH

p.s. I will NEVER buy your new $149 iSight camera, so just please let this great piece of software become popular quickly with the 300,000 usb cameras that are out there!!!!


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## hulkaros (Jun 23, 2003)

Although, I have a TiBook with a Mic included and turned on the phone button doesn't seem to work with any other friends that I tried to "Audio Chat" with them (up to 5 people and they were all using iChat AV too)...

Also, noticed lots of redrawing problems while chatting with them either one on one or many at once and most specifically while typing messages... However, when I pressed the enter key the redrawing problems were dissapearing...

Beta! I know!


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## Cliff-Omaha (Jun 23, 2003)

Completely useless as a video chat application unless you happen to be talking to the 3 to 5% of us who actually use the mac platform...and even less of us who use os 10.2.XX.

I was excited about the potential to finally use my USB webcam again...but no.  I was also excited about the cross compatibility with AIM on the PC side...but hopes were dashed there as well.  Okay, i'll break out my video camera and put the tripod up in the computer room to test this...but with who?  The person who would love to video chat with the new baby is a PC user, and will always be a PC user.  

I applaud the effort, and yes, it's a beta...but come on - why the hype over a piece of software that's a clunky version of something that no less than 4 apps are already doing..and have been doing for quite some time.


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## Gogo (Jun 23, 2003)

iChatAV's got groups, if no one noticed.  Go to iChat's Prefs, it's in the Generel tab.  It uses your Address Book groups.  Quite cool.


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## pyroboy (Jun 23, 2003)

There's a perfect answer, get friends with macs or be a real friend and buy them a Mac!

Man, I can't believe people are complaining that Apple released a cool technology that is Apple-based. Heck yes it is Apple based and eventually it will migrate to the PC, either through the efforts of Apple, Microsoft or AOL. Releasing innovations for your own product line so that people will buy your products is something every major company does. Ford does it, GM does it, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Microsoft, you name it. Like all of the rest of these companies, Apple is in the business of making a buck.

Can you think of any reason Apple might release a technology first on a Mac, then make it available to everyone else?

So when Apple comes up with great new ideas, they are almost always Apple first. Why? To drive sales of Apple products, not to drive sales of Windows.

It's the same reason there is no OS X for Windows. Lots of people might buy it, but if you happen to make lots of money selling hardware, why give it up when you don't have to?


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## sukram (Jun 23, 2003)

you also need to buy them a $100 firewire camera.....  or if you are nice, give them the $149 camera from apple!




sukram


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## sukram (Jun 23, 2003)

When I open iChatAV it seems to search for my camera since my USB camera driver (ioxpert) is activated and the camera is turned on.  i am assuming it notices that A camera is available.....

it just seems crazy that apple doesn't let USB camera owners use this software.  it would promote the hell out of this operating system.....

sukram


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## pyroboy (Jun 23, 2003)

Sukram, I have to agree with you, and I would bet that Apple relents in the future, but supporting USB cameras does not drive sales of the Apple iSight. Also, USB 1.0 is an inferior choice for several reasons.
1. it's slow. 
2. it doesn't help drive sales of FireWire. 

USB 2 might be a great choice but it has a big problem. It's a competing technology with Firewire 800 and Apple is looking out for itself once again.

I am not really defending Apple, but that seems to be the most logical explanation.


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## Captain Code (Jun 23, 2003)

USB is to slow for good video.  That's probably one reason they don't support it.  Every new Mac comes with a Firewire port, so there's no excuse for people buying new Macs and cameras, unless they buy some cheap $40.00 USB one.


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## Ugg (Jun 23, 2003)

Exactly, USB just doesn't cut it, Apple isn't known for releasing half-assed solutions and that is why it is firewire only.  

Everybody is (complaining) about iChat and it's only been out a few hours.  (edited)!   There are other apps that do this, but do any of them do it as well as Apple will?  Time will tell but I doubt it.  iSight is expensive because it is good and it is probably geared as much to the consumer market as it is to the business market.  Video conferencing has really taken off these last couple of years and has a tremendous appeal to the business world.  Travel is expensive and not very safe, a good and cool and easy program and camera like this could save a business mega bucks.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is useless.  Lighten up and revel in the fact that Apple is doing something incredible.  

They probably had to push this out the door just to add something to WWDC because everyone was hyping it so much, ok, so it's not perfect but it's here!

_(watch the language and insults please  - Jason)_


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## adambyte (Jun 23, 2003)

Apple is always slightly ahead of their time. I'm sure in a few years, things like iChat AV and iSight won't be such an oddity. It will go from being a "Oh, cool, you have one of those!"-thing to a "What, you don't have one of those?"-thing pretty quickly.


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## Sogni (Jun 23, 2003)

What? You don't have one of those yet???!!! 

Heh neither do I... man I want an iSight BAD!


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## sukram (Jun 24, 2003)

I understand the slow USB 1.0 argument.      And I definitely understand that it will not drive sales of their new camera... But here is my side.

1)Promote the software.  Make it easy for EVERYONE to use.  Then on the next update, if its a proven software that is actually catching on, make us upgrade to the better camera (they have done this with every major OS X upgrade, and its been working).   

2)Sure, Apple may be about not "releasing half-assed solutions and that is why it is firewire only."  I understand that firewire video is better.  But at the moment they need to focus on releasing software that attempts to increase their market share up from their current 2%.  Release something consumers can afford (which is difficult since Mac products are for the most part more expensive than PC products - sorry, I am not as wealthy as the rest of you), let us judge if its useful, and let us get addicted to your product (as I am).

3)The speed of the camera will almost always be faster than your network connection.  Sure the image might not look as good as with a firewire image, but compress that image for a productive network videoconference, and it doesn't make that much of a difference.  If I need broadcast quality video, I'll watch a live satellite transmission.  
(I admit, I could be wrong on this one....the Al Gore video looked great, but how far away was he from San Francisco?  ).  

Anyways, enough of my banter.  My real point is "how hard could it be."  Its not that hard at all, especially for a piece of software that will cost me (at the low end) $30.

just a thought...or 3
sukram


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## Giaguara (Jun 24, 2003)

the most common use of webcam that i know - talking about pc users - is online sex. i think mac users could find some other uses for a cam as well, but i find online sex quite boring. when i "talk" to someone i don't want to see them either. and i'm so used to "talking" = typing that i hate the telephone.. i can "talk" = type 5 hours with someone and hate talking on phone (or using voice) for calls lasting more than 2 minutes.

i don't want to be bugged to have online sex or to see anything obsolete in ichat. thus i think i'll stay in version 1 or non AV.


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## mightyjlr (Jun 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *the most common use of webcam that i know - talking about pc users - is online sex. i think mac users could find some other uses for a cam as well, but i find online sex quite boring. when i "talk" to someone i don't want to see them either. and i'm so used to "talking" = typing that i hate the telephone.. i can "talk" = type 5 hours with someone and hate talking on phone (or using voice) for calls lasting more than 2 minutes.
> 
> i don't want to be bugged to have online sex or to see anything obsolete in ichat. thus i think i'll stay in version 1 or non AV. *



I would recommend going to iChatAV.  There are other features/fixes that are very nice, like expanding textbox, spell check, and recent pictures pane.

When I started this thread I should have explained myself better.  Video and voice chat are EXTREMELY useful features.  They are however pretty much useless when only 3% of the pc market have Apples, probably 1/2 of them are still on os9, and who knows how few people have firewire cameras.  If I can only use these features with <0.05% of the population  then they are pretty much useless.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jun 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Although, I have a TiBook with a Mic included and turned on the phone button doesn't seem to work with any other friends that I tried to "Audio Chat" with them (up to 5 people and they were all using iChat AV too)...
> 
> Also, noticed lots of redrawing problems while chatting with them either one on one or many at once and most specifically while typing messages... However, when I pressed the enter key the redrawing problems were dissapearing...
> ...



It worked just fine on my powerbook. Did you set your internal-micro as audio-in device?


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## pyroboy (Jun 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mightyjlr _
> *When I started this thread I should have explained myself better.  Video and voice chat are EXTREMELY useful features.  They are however pretty much useless when only 3% of the pc market have Apples, probably 1/2 of them are still on os9, and who knows how few people have firewire cameras.  If I can only use these features with <0.05% of the population  then they are pretty much useless. *



If you look at it that way then yes, it is useless. 

However, if you look at the fact that Apple has sold over 5 million iMacs, you start to see a very big installed base of users, all of which can run OS X and most of which can run this camera. That does not include all of the Lombard and above PowerBooks and G3 and G4 Macs. It is a very big base of users that could use this technology. It might only be 3% of the total market, but that is not the main focus of the company.

I have used CUSeeMe years ago and I got tired of looking at the body parts of other users fairly quickly. It's neat technology, but it needs to do more. I think it needs to do more. With IChatAV, it gives the potential for more. 

For instance, if I have a friend in Germany that has DSL, I can now speak to them and show them images through my computer. We can even use the camera features. This scenario breaks down only because my friend does not have a DSL connection and a Mac. But now if properly motivated, the friend could get a Mac and we could do this.

The technology may only be useful or appealing to a very limited number of Mac users, but honestly, so is having Apache on the Mac, the ability to make movies, the ability to play music, the ability to have a calendar on a Web site somewhere. Most people might use one or two features. I in fact use all of them.

It is also a logical extension of what Apple has been doing for a while. Look at the Apple AV Monitor from the early 90's. It had a built-in microphone. Most PowerBooks from the 520 up to Pismo had a built-in microphone as well. It was a mostly useless feature, but now suddenly it seems to have a real pourpose. Of course, none of those mics will most likely work with iSight, but at least Apple has been thinking along these lines for a while.


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## evildan (Jun 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sukram _
> *This has got to be one of the most frustrating things I have had with Apple since I made the great switch to OS X.  I  have been waiting for this program for 2 years and suddenly they say that the only way for it to work is with a FIREWIRE CAMERA?!?!?!*



Has anyone tried a USB camera? With auto-detect, I would assume it would work. Of course, I have not seen any specs yet.


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## hulkaros (Jun 24, 2003)

Problem solved by just connecting/disconnecting my dial-up ISDN 64 and iChat AV!

Boom!


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## bigbadbill (Jun 25, 2003)

We have already implemented iChat AV office wide here at work. We were using iChat on a regular basis to communicate. iChat AV makes this even easier. We have'nt gone to video yet but the audio messaging is much better than typing messages back and forth and much more convienient than our phones intercom system (I no longer have to look up a fellow employee's extension, I simply select their name in my buddy list).

At home I use it to save on long distance bills by communicating with family members through iChat. And when the iSight cameras I have ordered arrive, i will enter the age of Video phone.

Calling iChat AV useless is an ignorant statement. How can you expect to review something you don't use? You just need more friends who use Apple.


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## evildan (Jun 25, 2003)

I think it's useful. Video conferencing is something I used to do several years ago. From the demo at the WWDC, it seems to have come a long way. 

It is a nice option, and I'm happy Apple implemented it in the new version of iChat.

I have a few friends over seas right now, and as soon as the download iChat AV we'll be talking. Without such technology I would be stuck text chatting them. 

I do like the inter-office solution, however the company I work for has PC and macs and the AV solution would have to be cross platform for it to really work.


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## Giaguara (Jun 25, 2003)

i'm more used to "talking" text and not seeing the persons. so i won't be warmed by visual phones or even talking. i hate phones because i am supposed to talk and not type in them ...


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## mightyjlr (Jun 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bigbadbill _
> *We have already implemented iChat AV office wide here at work. We were using iChat on a regular basis to communicate. iChat AV makes this even easier. We have'nt gone to video yet but the audio messaging is much better than typing messages back and forth and much more convienient than our phones intercom system (I no longer have to look up a fellow employee's extension, I simply select their name in my buddy list).
> 
> At home I use it to save on long distance bills by communicating with family members through iChat. And when the iSight cameras I have ordered arrive, i will enter the age of Video phone.
> ...



Maybe you didn't see my second post, where I explained myself better.  Obviously video and voice chat are very useful features.  The way iChat implements them is also very good.  I didn't mean useless in general, but it is useless for a large number of people in the sense that it will only work with an extremely small percentage of all computers.  And although it is a very cool feature, I don't see very many, if any people switching to Apple just to use iChatAV.  I switched 2 years ago because of MacOSX, but that is because I am an informed computer user, who knew about the benefits of the OS.  I wouldn't have switched because of the cool "iChatAV" if it were still OS9.  Anyway, thats a whole different story.  Oh yea, and "bigbadbill" don't call my statement ignorant.  I wasn't reviewing the features or implementation of iChatAV.  I was simply stating the fact that the extremely large majority of computer users will not be able to use iChatAV for video-conferencing or voice chat the way it was meant to be used.  Maybe you are ignorant for not realizing that.


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## evildan (Jun 26, 2003)

I agree with mightyjlr in that it is a limited audience of people. Only a handful of mac users use AIM and and even smaller portion of those people have cameras and an even smaller portion of people would hook them up to do video conferencing.

mightyjlr has asked a very practical question. 

I think Apple's though is if we put out a camera, mac users might be more into the AV idea. Which is true. How many posts on this form alone were there of people running out to buy iSight? Possibly having never suggested any interest in video conferencing prior to the release.

IMHO Apple customers are quite creative and they will find ways to use the new system to their benefit.

I'm a little peeved that my G3 didn't make the cut, I was going to use iChat to spy on my house cat from work.


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## lonny (Jun 26, 2003)

I agree with the above posts.
iChatAV is a nice app, but it's too limited in user base.

I am one of the 2% of people who use a Mac, I use 10.2, downloaded iChatAV, even have a webcam (what is it now... 0.7% of the population?) and still doesn't work for me!

USB cams not supproted. That's just nonsense. I use my Logitech Pro 4000 with other apps and get beautiful images at 30fps.

Ok, I try to get my camcorder. Plug in the firewire cable... still doesn't work! My CPU is too slow: 600MHz is the minimum.
I think we end up with 0.1% of the population, roughly speaking.

I agree that Apple should push quality. But the ability to make iChatAV work for a wider audience woulnd't harm its usefulness and popularity at all.
Limit functionality to smaller windows, lower frame rates and people will want an iSight! (which, incitentally, can not work with other apps!!!)

Hope Apple listens and changes their mind before the final version is released.

P.S. on a side note, before buying the Logitech I actually shopped around for a FW cam. Couldn't find any!


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## bigbadbill (Jun 26, 2003)

mightyjlr, I didn't mean to offend you by calling your statement ignorant. What I meant was that you were making a very strong statement by starting a thread to announce that you find the iSight "useless" when you don't even own one.  You seemed to lack knowledge and experience where the product is concerned and that, by definition is ignorance. I admit I missed the post where you recanted your statement, but I think if you tried the iSight in the environment in which it was intended, you too would find it "way cool dude".

I'm sure that in the very near future we will be able to communicate via video with pc users using the iSight camera. The integration between the two platforms grows by leaps and bounds these days. You can't expect Apple to develop something super new and groovy if they fall in line behind every other web-cam manufacturer or chat client developer. They have to forge ahead and hope the masses follow. We as devoted Apple users need to be patient.

I'm reminded of an old proverb where a young bull and his father are grazing on a hill. The young bull turns to the older one and says "Hey Pop, let's run down there an screw one of those cows." To which the older bull replies " No Son, let's walk down and screw 'em all."

I'm proud to be in that 0.1%


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## mightyjlr (Jun 26, 2003)

Bill,
I never said I find the iSight useless, nor did I claim to use one.  All of my statements were made regarding iChatAV.  I do not own the iSight.  I have never used the iSight.  I have never seen the iSight in person, or touched it with my own hands.  That doesn't make me ignorant of the iSight though.  I do not lack knowledge of the product.  Is there some secret information or features that only people who buy the iSight get to know about, that isn't listed on the Apple website?  I have no experience with the iSight, but that still does not make me ignorant of it.  I have a very large amount of experience with other firewire web-cams and video-cameras.  Besides these cameras not mounting to the top of my computer screen, does their use with iChatAV differ in anyway? No.  I know you weren't trying to attack me Bill, and I hope I don't come off too strong in my statements and arguments, but it gets to me when someone calls me or my ideas ignorant, when that is obviously so far from the truth.


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## bigbadbill (Jun 28, 2003)

mightyjlr  point taken ... let's move on, shall we.

Got my iSight camera yesterday and I have to say it ROCKS! The video quality is excellent and the the sound quality is even better. I worked from home yesterday, keeping in touch with my office via iChat AV, and it went very smooth. I set up another system using my Digital Video Cam (Cannon ZR65mc) and it works really well, but the sound quality is much better using the iSight. 

One gripe though. I set my sound prefs to use the iSight for sound input, but it switches back everytime I switch off the iSight camera. Which makes complete sense, but is still a pain. Maybe I can write an AppleScript to switch the sound when I turn it on.

Also for anyone who _has_ an iSight check out EvoCam, works with iSight and has some really *USEFUL* features. It has motion sensors and streams to web. This would be perfect for *evildan* to check on his cat!


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## sukram (Jun 28, 2003)

so I read on xlr8yourmac.com about someone being able to use their USB webcam (ioxpert driver) with iChat after using iChat with their DV camera (firewire).  I tried it and it works perfectly!!!!!

Basically, I plugged in my A/D DV converter (Director's Cut) into my firewire port.  iChat assumed it was a camera.  I then plugged in my camera, and exitied iChat.  When I opened iChat, it found both the DV converter and my Kritter USB (ioxpert driver as well) and now I am getting amazing images with it!  The image on iChat with my USB Kritter webcam blows away iVisit, etc.  The funny thing is that once I remove my firewire hookup, iChat no longer sees the Kritter and my video disappears.   

Is it still useless???  Well, not to me anymore (as long as i keep my DV converter on)...  Although Apple's insistence on purposely blocking my webcam to force me to buy a stupid iSight camera makes them more like Microsoft than ever...   

Apple, please just let us use it!!!!

Sukram


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## Captain Code (Jun 28, 2003)

Thats pretty cool.  Strange how that works though.  You'd think it'd connect to the Firewire port to get the video.  Does the ioxpert driver make it look like a Firewire camera?


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 28, 2003)

is there a way to uninstall pc users?


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## sukram (Jun 29, 2003)

the ioxpert driver makes it a usb camera, nothing firewire about it.... i know this should be in some development news group, but i just hope apple fixes it.

sukram


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## RatsPaw (Jun 29, 2003)

I've been looking forward to this program for quite a while, too, since my fiance is in Germany right now, and she'll be in Austria next year.  She's got an iBot firewire cam, and we've had success (sometimes) using the latest iVisit alpha for X.  But I knew that Apple's solution would be 100 times better.  Only problem is, she's got a 500 mHz iBook, just below the spec for video.  I went ahead and picked up an iSignt yesterday, just for the hell of it.  If she can't run iChat AV with video, I hope that another chat program builds in support for the iSight soon.  I also hope that Apple adds support for other apps, like iMovie, or, they could even put in some biometric ID system that used it.  

Rat


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## kcwookie (Jun 29, 2003)

I use audio chats to talk to my 
Wife when I'm at work.  It works great and is not as useless as I first thought.


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## mightyjlr (Jun 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sukram _
> *the ioxpert driver makes it a usb camera, nothing firewire about it.... i know this should be in some development news group, but i just hope apple fixes it.
> 
> sukram *



I don't think Apple has any intention of fixing it... if anything, they might make it so it doesn't even work like that.  Deliberate crippling of features, just so you'll go out and buy an iSight is shady, and simply not good business practice.  Well, it is good in the sense that it makes you money, but not good to build support from your customers.


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## clayshima (Jun 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bobw _
> *I've been using ISPQ for video conferencing, and that works very well and is cross platform. *



I never managed to run iSpQ continuously for more than 5 minutes after engaging in a video chat. It crashes and the connection must be done again. Thank God it dosn't bring OSX down. But it is simply awkward because you must then log in the same chat room as before if you want to resume the conversation with the same person of before. But sometimes you even can't enter the same chat room because it gets full and you must find someway to tell the person you were talking to enter another room, so you have to have AIM or icq turned on at the same time to keep communication, et al... man, iSpQ SUCKS.... I used for 6 months, bought 2 licenses, but it was a waste of money...
Not to mention that if you are behind a NAT router you must open the ports manually (sucks) and so other machines in the same LAN can't use it (sucks). AND the image quality is very low (sucks).
On the other hand, I tested iChatAV in talking with my brother in Brazil (I'm in Japan!), and it was SOOOOO amazingly easy to set up and start using, and the image AND sound quality was so superior to iSpQ, that I got very pissed off that I actually had spent money on iSpQ and that iChatAV was for free. AND it is a BETA! I now start to see reason when people say that Apple's BETA apps are better than the competition's FINISHED apps.
Here's the setup:
In Japan:
Quicksilver PMG4Dual800 OS10.2.6
ADSL 12MBdown/1.5MBup
Sony DCR-PC3

In Brazil:
Tsunami PM9600/300-Sonnet G4/400 OS10.2.6
ADSL 384KBdown/124KBup
Canon XL-1

The Tsunami in Brazil was brought on its knees - my brother said he couldn't even move the windows, the system was almost entire paralyzed - with EXCEPTION that the image in the iChatAV windows was clear and smooth, and the frame rate was very good. Now, you have to consider that my bro was using a very ancient system, and even the Firewire interface isn't built-in (he is using a Rex Firewire PCI-card). AND his ADSL connection isn't what we can call BROADBAND in the real sense of the word (not to mention that brazilian network backbones are freaked out and unreliable. 

But iChatAV worked and it was good and fine. Something to think about usability of a Mac.

Note: I used iSpQ in the same situation as above, when I went from Japan to Brazil and spent 3 months there, and used to talk to my wife with it. At that time I was using (in Brazil) a PowerBook Pismo 500 with 512MB of RAM, and the ADSL at that time was 512KBdown/256KBup + the Canon XL-1. My wife was using the same setup of the Quicksilver. It proves that iChat needs LESS bandwidth than iSpQ to work BETTER.


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## mightyjlr (Jun 30, 2003)

I thought that the minimum requirements for iChatAV were a 600mhz G4?


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## fryke (Jul 1, 2003)

Nope, 600 MHz G3.


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## Rustus Maximus (Jul 1, 2003)

Sooo, out of curiosity...how many video chats can you have going at once?  We have 5 folks in our group...could I have them all going at the same time?  Or does iChat AV have a group video chat function, where everyone's pictures are up at the same time in one window?

Thanks,

Rustus


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## bobw (Jul 1, 2003)

I've been using ISPQ for quite some time and have never had it crash. Must be something on your end. And, right now iChatAV is free, but the final version won't be. This beta version will expire  12./03.

iChat doesn't have a group video/conference option. ISPQ does, you can have up to 5 people at the same time. The new iChat is definitely better than ISPQ, no lag at all with it like with ISPQ, but it's Mac only. 

ISPQ has messaging, so it's easy to tell someone to go to another room if you can't get in a room where they are.

Opening ports for ISPQ, simple and a one time thing. Apple also recommends opening certain ports for iChatAV. 

The video quality in ISPQ, for me at least, is better than iChatAV, not much.


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## Rustus Maximus (Jul 2, 2003)

So Bob, even though it doesn't have a group video chat option, could one have multiple video chat windows open at once?  And how would the quality be if it is possible at all?

Rustus


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## bobw (Jul 2, 2003)

Rustus

Haven't tried multiple vidoe chats with iChat. I'll do that when I see a couple people on with a camera and post back.


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## sukram (Jul 4, 2003)

Check this out:

http://www.petitiononline.com/iChatUSB/petition.html

Honestly, if apple doesn't listen maybe somebody out there will make it work.  

sukram


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## Rustus Maximus (Jul 7, 2003)

bobw or anybody had any experience with multiple video chat streams yet?  If so, how many could you have running at one time before it choked?  And what configuration are you running?

Rustus


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## bigbadbill (Jul 7, 2003)

Only one video chat session at a time. iChat gives you a _"You already have a video chat session open"_ message when you try to start a second one.


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## Rustus Maximus (Jul 7, 2003)

Ahhh well...maybe next version


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