# My project is looking for Beta testers



## SystemError51 (Apr 16, 2007)

(First of all, the initial post was confusing, so I am trying to revise this now...)

Hi guys and ladies,

In the past 15 months I have been working on my personal homepage. It's pretty much finished now. However, I want to test it to see if the code runs as expected.

I have named the whole thing *OS X Mercury*. It is not as easy to explain... I wanted to put on personal stuff on a personal homepage in a new way. So... I think I post the Beta test link in here, so you all can give it a go and let me know what you think or if you find any bugs =)

*OS X Mercury, Beta 2*
se51.net/beta/


Let me know what you think =)


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## fryke (Apr 16, 2007)

I think your problem is not this board's rules (read them anyway, please), but rather violating Apple's copyrights with what you're doing. Your site is _so_ filled with Apple's graphics, that it's also quite difficult to discern where you've simply copied elements of their site and where there's actual information about what _you're_ trying to accomplish. I, for one, am not impressed.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 17, 2007)

> I think your problem is not this board's rules (read them anyway, please)



I did.



> ... but rather violating Apple's copyrights with what you're doing. Your site is _so_ filled with Apple's graphics, that it's also quite difficult to discern where you've simply copied elements of their site and where there's actual information about what _you're_ trying to accomplish.



Please advise on where I am violating Apple's copyrights. The screenshots are from the *actual website that is in Beta stage*, and I believe the icons used (except for Oxygen, which is mine) are *public domain* - or at least, they can be used freely.

Further, the *"X" logo is my own Photoshop* - look closer and you will see differences. I can send you the PSD file if you like. The *leopard fur* in the back *also is not the same* - I have found this on the web and was public domain.

What I am trying to accomplish I have already said. Putting digital content of me on the web in a different way.




> I, for one, am not impressed.



That's okay.


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## Ferdinand (Apr 17, 2007)

So what is this "OS X Mercury"? It looks like a OS?

PS: It looks like a lot of work went into it...


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## SystemError51 (Apr 17, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> So what is this "OS X Mercury"? It looks like a OS?



It is a website, taking advantage of advanced technologies such as Web 2.0 and Ajax to resemble the Look And Feel and functionalities from the original.



Ferdinand said:


> PS: It looks like a lot of work went into it...



About 15 months right now


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## Mikuro (Apr 17, 2007)

I can't believe Apple's application icons, logo and widgets are public domain. Certainly, Apple has no issue with software developers posting screenshots or things like that, but imagine if Microsoft tried to use those icons on their products! I know Apple has sued people for misuse of their logo in the past. You're also using Apple's product names for your own competing products. Obviously that's not okay.

The X and fur don't necessarily need be bit-for-bit copies to violate trademarks. That depends on the context. Trademarks are different from copyrights.

As for the actual content, I don't know what to say. What you say "covers it best" leaves me with no real idea what you're talking about! From reading that blurb, my best guess would be that it's yet another social networking/blogging site, with an emphasis on file sharing. Looking at the web site, it seems like something completely different, but I'm still not sure exactly _what_.

I guess it's a windowing system, written in JavaScript, that allows for arbitrary modules, in such a way that they act like desktop applications. And there's a standard set of modules to do basic tasks like searching. If so, it's a really neat idea, and I'd like to see more. But I think people will be much more likely to take you seriously if you create your own look & feel. This really is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Edit: Is there a working demo online? Again, I'd like to see more.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 17, 2007)

Mikuro said:


> I can't believe Apple's application icons, logo and widgets are public domain. Certainly, Apple has no issue with software developers posting screenshots or things like that, but imagine if Microsoft tried to use those icons on their products! I know Apple has sued people for misuse of their logo in the past. You're also using Apple's product names for your own competing products. Obviously that's not okay.



In the about box all legalities are covered by stating that the sources and names are Apple's copyright and trademarks.

Other people have done similar things by trying to replicate a OS X like desktop, used the same icons, the same names. No lawsuit has happened.



Mikuro said:


> The X and fur don't necessarily need be bit-for-bit copies to violate trademarks. That depends on the context. Trademarks are different from copyrights.



If it comes to these things, the way I understood it, is, that as long as it is slightly different, it does not violate copyright or trademarks. But I may be wrong.



Mikuro said:


> As for the actual content, I don't know what to say. What you say "covers it best" leaves me with no real idea what you're talking about! From reading that blurb, my best guess would be that it's yet another social networking/blogging site, with an emphasis on file sharing. Looking at the web site, it seems like something completely different, but I'm still not sure exactly _what_.
> 
> I guess it's a windowing system, written in JavaScript, that allows for arbitrary modules, in such a way that they act like desktop applications. And there's a standard set of modules to do basic tasks like searching. If so, it's a really neat idea, and I'd like to see more. But I think people will be much more likely to take you seriously if you create your own look & feel. This really is a lawsuit waiting to happen.



I am proud of what I did with it, I am not going to change any of the appearances. If they sue me, fine. But that's it with Apple for me then. I did this as an homage - not as a thing to call up a lawsuit on myself. If Steve Jobs really is as cool as I believe he is, he (and Apple) will appreciate the work and effort put in this.



Mikuro said:


> Edit: Is there a working demo online? Again, I'd like to see more.



Yes, there is. This is why I am looking for testers.


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## caribooyj (Apr 17, 2007)

Mikuro said:


> Looking at the web site, it seems like something completely different, but I'm still not sure exactly _what_.



Same here... I'm not really getting it yet, guess I will have to spend more time on the site to take a closer look. The similarity to the Apple site is confusing me a bit. I have to disagree with you when it comes to your views on trademark/copyright infringement. Being in business for 20+ years on my own and running a consulting  firm now, my understanding is you are opening the door to a lawsuit. 

Being just a regular user and having no experience in site development, its somewhat difficult to appreciate the time you have spent on this project, but I do want to commend you on your effort and your willingness in sharing this venture with us here.


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

This is not really a personal home page thing like wordpress is it? But more for the online PC thing that is already existed?

It seems to me this is online Mac as to the online PC that are already functional and cross platform.


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## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

Okay. Where _is_ the working demo? I can't find it.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

> This is not really a personal home page thing like wordpress is it? But more for the online PC thing that is already existed?



No, nothing like it.




> It seems to me this is online Mac as to the online PC that are already functional and cross platform.



This is no virtualization software, or remote accessing tool.

---------

How I do explain this? I don't know, really... it's very hard.

Basically, you click on a link, and a new window opens. In there, you will see something that appears to be a Mac OS X desktop. Menus work, icons work... The thing is, that it utilizes a windowing system to display content, and inside the applications such as iPhoto display photos I want to share on the web, where as iTunes streams music that I have made from the server - while it maintains the look and feel of the original. All of this runs on Javascript, DHTML, Ajax and Web 2.0 components.

I do not know how to describe this differently... =(

Maybe this helped a bit.


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

There is a 'keynote' on the web site... and that's the closest thing to a demo and I could find...

Note, the keynote can be very annoying.

But aren't we suppose to beta test something?


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

There is a demo online.

If you want to see it, send me a PM and I give you the link.


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

SystemError51 said:


> No, nothing like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's exactly what an online PC is!!! No it isn't virtualisation but have some remote access element in it - it lets you save document on the online PC and you can access it anywhere in the world that has access to a web browser. An online PC runs within a web browser like Firefox... let me try find an example... I'll dig up my bookmarks...

EDIT, found it:
http://eyeos.org/about

From the web site:


> A completely free (Open Source) desktop system running from your browser, where anybody can collaborate and expand it.



Sounds very similar to what you are doing, except that you are doing a Mac version.


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## Lt Major Burns (Apr 18, 2007)

which is in itself in a world of shit, copyright wise...


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

SystemError51 said:


> There is a demo online.
> 
> If you want to see it, send me a PM and I give you the link.


Ok, WOW.

It is just like OS X!!!

And I would confirm it is more or less the Mac version of eyeOS... and you seem to put a lot of Mac things into it, I mean, does it *really* runs on Mach kernel?

I probably shouldn't write too much about it now since I haven't tested it that much, but it does make my fan spin, which is a major problem.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

Sunnz said:


> Ok, WOW.
> 
> It is just like OS X!!!



Thanks! =)



Sunnz said:


> And I would confirm it is more or less the Mac version of eyeOS... and you seem to put a lot of Mac things into it, I mean, does it *really* runs on Mach kernel?



It does not run on a Mach Kernel... but I thought it might be fun to name one of the starting files like it 



Sunnz said:


> I probably shouldn't write too much about it now since I haven't tested it that much, but it does make my fan spin, which is a major problem.



On that I am trying to work... but this thing is in the moment still good enought for a preview


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## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

It looks nice.  ... But if this all is a betatest for YOUR _personal_ homepage, I think it's a tad too much work - plus the betatest doesn't make much sense then.  ... But I can see that very, very much work has already gone into this. Wow.


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

SystemError51 said:


> It does not run on a Mach Kernel... but I thought it might be fun to name one of the starting files like it


Ok so why are there 2 "loading" screen? I mean, I tried to go straight to the main desktop and start using 'Safari'. These 'artifacts' are unnecessarily mimicking Apple Mac OS X...

Seriously, try the eyeOS demo.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

fryke said:


> It looks nice.  ... But if this all is a betatest for YOUR _personal_ homepage, I think it's a tad too much work - plus the betatest doesn't make much sense then.  ... But I can see that very, very much work has already gone into this. Wow.



Thanks fryke =)

It is a lot of work all right... 15 months now. But when it'll be done (which is very soon), I think I have made something. At least I am proud of it.  It is indeed for my personal homepage - I think a test made sense to see how the thing reacts in real life as opposed to run it on my local MacBook 




			
				Sunnz said:
			
		

> Ok so why are there 2 "loading" screen? I mean, I tried to go straight to the main desktop and start using 'Safari'. These 'artifacts' are unnecessarily mimicking Apple Mac OS X...
> 
> Seriously, try the eyeOS demo.




One preloads a lot of graphics and stuff, the second one prepares the visitor to see the final desktop screen.

The Safari browser has been mainly built in for Time Machine - but since it displays my old websites, I thought it might be nice to complete the thing as a Safari-looking and working browser


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

Ahh so it is just your personal home page?

Kinda weird to have Application like 'features' like Safari in a personal home page... and this is exactly the thing that made me thought you are developing some kind of web OS.

On a peak of the source code... you seem to have comments about how others can use your code... so are you really develop this for yourself only or do you plan to release it or something?

And yea it seems like only 1 of your 4 loading screens are actually pre-loading the images... surely you are just having fun mimicking OS X? You could spread the image pre-loading over the 4 load screens, however.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

Sunnz said:


> Ahh so it is just your personal home page?
> 
> Kinda weird to have Application like 'features' like Safari in a personal home page... and this is exactly the thing that made me thought you are developing some kind of web OS.



It is just my personal homepage. Or let's say, once it's done, it will complete the missing content on what I already have on the domain. 



Sunnz said:


> On a peak of the source code... you seem to have comments about how others can use your code... so are you really develop this for yourself only or do you plan to release it or something?



Basically, I have done this for myself, to learn about web technologies and stuff. However, I am planning to create a Mercury 'application' called "MCode" , with which people can look into the code of everything in there.




> And yea it seems like only 1 of your 4 loading screens are actually pre-loading the images... surely you are just having fun mimicking OS X? You could spread the image pre-loading over the 4 load screens, however.



Yeah, that's true. I think I gonna spread it to all the screens.

Thanks for that idea =)


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## Ferdinand (Apr 18, 2007)

Wow!!! Very nice and practical, if you want to have OS X on a PC. But I found two bugs/errors:

1. The dock disappears after opening & closing any app.
2. I can't type new websites into Safari, as in when I type www.macosx.com it doesnt work, though when I click on any bookmark, apple.com/macosx for example, it works. Then I can navigate around there using the links provided on the website.

Great stuff though!


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> Wow!!! Very nice and practical, if you want to have OS X on a PC.



May I quote that as a beta test testimony on my site? 



Ferdinand said:


> But I found two bugs/errors:
> 
> 1. The dock disappears after opening & closing any app.



Let me check that... I know that the dock shows some weird overlapping right now, I have to find a way to make that disappear 



Ferdinand said:


> 2. I can't type new websites into Safari, as in when I type www.macosx.com it doesnt work, though when I click on any bookmark, apple.com/macosx for example, it works. Then I can navigate around there using the links provided on the website.



In the moment it works when you enter "http://" in front. I have to add a routine that adds that automatically.



Ferdinand said:


> Great stuff though!



Thanks! =)


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## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm still not so sure why you're calling this "beta test" and are looking for testimonials and such. I _think_ the whole misunderstanding from the beginning was that everyone thought you were trying to get beta-testers for an application. Software, one can run on his/her Mac. If you continue to talk about it with those terms, you'll continue to confuse people. Make it clearer that it's about your personal homepage. If you want to spread the code for it, make it clear that you do so (or will do so) as well.


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## Sunnz (Apr 18, 2007)

It is said that the code is open and he will release it on the web page...

And yea it is damn confusing!!!

I think he is just having 'fun' imitating Apple than anything else. (No offence.)


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

fryke said:


> I'm still not so sure why you're calling this "beta test" and are looking for testimonials and such. I _think_ the whole misunderstanding from the beginning was that everyone thought you were trying to get beta-testers for an application. Software, one can run on his/her Mac. If you continue to talk about it with those terms, you'll continue to confuse people. Make it clearer that it's about your personal homepage. If you want to spread the code for it, make it clear that you do so (or will do so) as well.



I call this a beta test because I want to know if it runs in real life as expected, I believe to have mentioned this before.

But what is wrong with looking for opinions of what people think about it? 

So here goes:

I am looking for people who have a look at my personal homepage to make sure that the code runs as expected.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 18, 2007)

Sunnz said:


> It is said that the code is open and he will release it on the web page...



Yes, I will.




Sunnz said:


> And yea it is damn confusing!!!
> 
> I think he is just having 'fun' imitating Apple than anything else. (No offence.)




Then help me revise a text in English that makes it clear for everyone please...


====


// EDIT:

I begin to believe that posting this here wasn't a good idea.


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## Sunnz (Apr 19, 2007)

Ahh, are you a native English speaker?

I am not.


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## symphonix (Apr 19, 2007)

SystemError51 said:


> Other people have done similar things by trying to replicate a OS X like desktop, used the same icons, the same names. No lawsuit has happened.



Not always. Lots of people have "borrowed" Apple's icons and used them on their web pages in some small way. Typically Apple hasn't bothered to pursue them as it is hardly worth worrying about. However, there have been incidents where people have been sued or had takedown notices for extensive and blatant misuse of Apple's icons - including an RIAA created site about the importance of respecting copyright which was taken down at the request of Apple legal because they had used Apple's icons for the site.

Several desktop themes and website skins, including some for open source CMS systems, have also been taken down at the request of Apple legal for copying from Mac OS X.

Even if you only copy a little bit here and there, it does present a very poor impression. When it comes time to use your design, perhaps for a portfolio or a product or service, even a little copying will leave a bad taste.


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## fryke (Apr 20, 2007)

SystemError51 said:


> But what is wrong with looking for opinions of what people think about it?
> 
> So here goes:
> 
> I am looking for people who have a look at my personal homepage to make sure that the code runs as expected.



Nothing's wrong with looking for people to take a look at your personal homepage's beta stage. The problem, as I see it, was that you initially (and on your website) word things as if you're going to release a product. A Web OS of some kind, that people will pay to use, license or get for free. With that expectation in mind, it looked as if you were trying to rip off Apple's intellectual property, using their graphics etc. (or re-creating them).
If you had used that last quoted sentence from the beginning as well as prominently on your webpage, it would've been _much_ clearer.

No offense here from my side! I'm just trying to help here. See, if you, for example, make a website about the greatest car EVER and say that you're going to sell it for 150 dollars, people would expect a real car. If it later turns out that you simply build a model at a 1:10 scale for your _own_ enjoyment, people's expectations clash with reality, and they tend to get angry.


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## caribooyj (Apr 20, 2007)

SystemError51 e-mailed me the link to his beta site. This cleared up all the confusion and questions I had about the tread here and his statements and claims. I do believe the site is like nothing I've seen before... it's just like working in OS X.... very close to logging on to a MAC via remote connection. It's a great idea for a personal homepage and as a relatively new Mac user/switcher I love it. I could see how visiting and using his site would help non OS X users get a better understanding of how the operating system works and feels like. (e.g.: you change the background in System Preferences, music is linked via iTunes, pics are stored in iPhoto, etc..)
It would have helped reinforce my decision to "switch" just by experiencing the beautiful layout/design of the software. I would encourage SystemError51 to post the link to his site here for you to check it out....it's great stuff!

The question was raised if SE51 is a native English speaker. I can relate. I'm a native German speaker and also living in Canada for a few years now, its not always super easy to relate all the subtleties and find the correct terminology. We tend to translate more literally and that often skews the meaning of what it is one tries to get across. In the case of this specific thread, I know after looking at the actual beta site, can understand the difficulty in explaining what the objectives are... again, the link should just be posted for all to see what is going on with this project. I'd be very interested to find out if it's just me who thinks highly of this project.


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## Sunnz (Apr 20, 2007)

I don't know if it is just me...

But at first I thought this is some kind of web OS, then to realise that he is just trying create a personal home page, NOW I still think this has potential to be developed as a great web OS!!


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## fryke (Apr 20, 2007)

There's quite a bit more to a web OS than a slick UI. (Actually, in my opinion, a good web OS should have a spartan UI, similar to Gmail's interface.)


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## SystemError51 (Apr 21, 2007)

Hi guys 

Thank you all for your encouraging words! Fryke, thanks for your advise... you're right with what you are saying.

I'm sorry if I got you all confused at this one. Please believe me that this was not my intention. The only problem I have as a non-native speaker is basically that describing something like this is not easy.

=============

So... on ever more requests and recommendations from all who have seen it, I have decided to make the beta test public and freely available to anyone so that you all get a better understanding of what I am trying to accomplish.

You are all now welcome to have a look at my homepage project and post your opinions here or send me an PM or so...

*OS X Mercury, Beta 2*
http://www.se51.net/index.php?page=mercury-beta

=============


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## Qion (Apr 21, 2007)

Fantastic work; if this doesn't land you a job, I don't know what will. 

Beta 2 shows more than tons of potential. It's already a well-developed system, and very impressive. The processor demands are a bit high, but with the way the market is obsessing over the latest and greatest, I don't believe that's really a problem.

It almost seems like an idea born from dream. Where did it come from, anyway?


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## SystemError51 (Apr 21, 2007)

Qion said:


> Fantastic work; if this doesn't land you a job, I don't know what will.
> 
> Beta 2 shows more than tons of potential. It's already a well-developed system, and very impressive. The processor demands are a bit high, but with the way the market is obsessing over the latest and greatest, I don't believe that's really a problem.
> 
> It almost seems like an idea born from dream. Where did it come from, anyway?




Thanks Qion!  

It basically came from the idea to have my content in sync in the web... and, well, I like Apple and I would love to work for them. That's basically how it started


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## Sunnz (Apr 21, 2007)

It seemed to have optimised a bit this time!!!

Some annoyance that I have found:

Dock, the magnification just isn't right... you are not doing it different just to be different, right?

Resolution, I know this can be very tricky... but it is a weird to have something beyond the Dock and some space to the right of the HD. And the resolution thing in System preference doesn't really help, since a 17-inch screen isn't really 17-inch, on a Mac, Firefox doesn't expand to the Dock and the menu bar is always there... err.. I guess I'll upload a screen shot.

And the log out shutdown thing... what is it really supposed to do anyway?

P.S. upload doesn't work... unless someone fix it up, I can't give a pictorial explanation of the Dock and resolution thing... hope you understand what I am trying to say though...


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## Sunnz (Apr 21, 2007)

BTW, I noticed that you have a link to Kubuntu, are you triple-booting Linux Windows and Mac while developing this?


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## SystemError51 (Apr 21, 2007)

Sunnz said:


> It seemed to have optimised a bit this time!!!
> 
> Some annoyance that I have found:
> 
> ...



The Dock zooms slightly different than the original. For example it begins to zoom when the cursor comes into a certain area of the screen. I have tried several settings and combinations... This really is the best I can do.

The resolution thing... I put this in in case someone has a big screen, so there's more real-estate to use the entire thing. I know that 19-inch isn't exactly 19-inch anymore on a Mac, but I also had to keep visitors in mind who are using a PC with a standard 4:3 screen. This is why this is kept in those relations. But you can send a screenshot to mail@se51.net 

Shut Down is supposed to simply close the window (there's not much of a point implementing a whole sequence of screens doing nothing until eventually just the window gets closed  ). Log Out brings you to a log in screen, which in turn lets you log in again. Restart basically restarts the thing, in case some graphics got not loaded or so. Restart basically starts over from the very beginning. You know... the Apple bong thing.




Sunnz said:


> BTW, I noticed that you have a link to Kubuntu, are you triple-booting Linux Windows and Mac while developing this?



There was a link to Kubuntu on my previous page... I see you used Time Machine  I am actually developing the whole thing on my MacBook. Tests are done on my iMac, XP and Vista machines here at home.


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## caribooyj (Apr 21, 2007)

"Quion: Fantastic work; if this doesn't land you a job, I don't know what will. "
I'll second that, it's great work!

Glad you've decided to post the link to Beta 2, this should clear up some confusion and will make it clear what you are trying to accomplish.


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## SystemError51 (Apr 22, 2007)

I have revised the initial post of this thread... I hope that text is clearer and better to understand  and is hopefully free of doubts


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## fryke (Apr 22, 2007)

And now you have made most of the first page's answers look stupid, as if they're answering a completely different thread. Thx.


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