# chimera 0.2 (kind of) released



## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

Check out chimera.mozdev.org/installation.html and you will see that 0.2 was released, but the binaries have been removed because the server couldn't handle the traffic. 

I want to try it, but I'm not at home and not at a mac.


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## homer (Apr 6, 2002)

I went to the site, but saw no indication that it'd ever been available. . ..


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## julguribye (Apr 6, 2002)

"Installation
The newest build is 0.2.0. I've had to remove the binary because mozdev simply can't handle the traffic. Once I get it moved to a site with more bandwidth, I'll post the new link. "


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## homer (Apr 6, 2002)

I went to http://chimera.mozdev.org/installation.html, and all I get is this:

Installation
The newest build is 0.1.3. You can download it here.

Building Chimera

etc.


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## voice- (Apr 6, 2002)

homer, go to cache in your browser and set it to update every time you browse a site, then it should be fine and you should see Chimera 0.2 released


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## homer (Apr 6, 2002)

Very weird.  I had the browser set to check whenever the page is different.  I would think it should have caught it.  Good call...


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## ksuther (Apr 6, 2002)

I'd go and compile it if you didn't have to first compile Mozilla and some other program, which would take waaaaaayyyyy too long


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

someone posted the binary on their idisk on the mailing list!!!


http://idisk.mac.com/alanbrent/Public/chimera-latest.tar.gz

I've just got one word: whoa!

I love the antialiasing, and its still pretty fast!. Nice new icons too!


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## marmoset (Apr 6, 2002)

The Quartz rendering is very cool, and the ioverall look of the app (icons, buttons, etc.) is very clean.

posted w/ Chimera 0.2


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## simX (Apr 6, 2002)

OK.  The antialiased text is a start.

But DANG is typing in text fields slow!!!!!  The text often has to catch up to me, what with me typing with the dvorak keyboard layout.

Sheesh!  It's REALLY slow!!!

Anyway.  Things like buttons and text fields and radio buttons still don't look as good as OmniWeb.  But it still seems to be very fast.

OK, enough of this stupid slow text field stuff!  I'm back to OmniWeb.  Just this makes it unusable!!!

---- ABOVE POSTED WITH NAVIGATOR, BELOW WITH OMNIWEB ----

OK, that text field thing really really annoyed me.  Chimera, at 0.2, is still unusable.  Sorry gplex and others. 

I also would've liked the creators to do an approach like OmniWeb when displaying webpages -- display the things as you get them, not when it's all finished.  That way if there's one resource holding them all up, you can still start reading.

One other thing I need to rant about.  The size.  OmniWeb is _23_ megabytes for _17_ languages, while Navigator is 25 megabytes for only _1_ language.  OmniWeb is smaller and has more languages!!  OmniWeb with only English is something like 13 MB.

Well, I can't say that I was all that impressed, just because of that text field thing.  I guess it still has a long way to go.  But judging at the reactions that the progress Chimera was getting and the rants about 0.2, I seemed to get the feeling that Chimera 0.2 was going to be the end-all-be-all of web browsers on OS X.  But it isn't.


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

can you stop focusing on the negatives and look at how great it is that we have quartz rendering that is fast and renders most everything really well? Things will be fixed in time stop this un-neaded bashing!


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## simX (Apr 6, 2002)

Yes, the antialiased text is nice.  I agree.

But that seems to be the only jump over 0.13.

Like I said above:

Judging by all your postings about Chimera, gplex, I got the feeling that Chimera 0.2 would be the end-all-be-all of browsers.  But it isn't, so I'm disappointed.


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

sim, i never said 0.2 would be the be all and end all browser. I just thought its a big stepingstone with quartz. Do you not understand what 0.2 software is? Omniweb is at 4.1! Its obviously going to be more polished and have more features. 

There are more jumps over 0.1.3 as well. Such as new icons, preferences and better tab control (closing tabs, cycling between tabs). It was going to have plugin support, but some of the developers were taking time with mozilla v1.0. Software just doesn't appear and become amazing overnight. Stop ranting about all the things it needs . I'm sure that they know all of that stuff. And if they don't please file a bug. Can't we look at everything that they have done already by a 0.2 version!!

Why do all threads mentioning mozilla or navigator or netscape all turn into bash fests or  a bunch of arugments. Its very annoying that I can't start or contribute to one of these threads without constantly defending my position!!


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## vanguard (Apr 6, 2002)

My quick review:

Well, I can't seem to click in the "subject" section of the this form.  I'm not sure why.  I am able to type faster than the browser is able to keep up but just barely.  I would be surprised if this was an issue for very many people.  I am a faster than average typist.

I can't get into the anti-aliased text.  I guess it's ok but it mostly looks fuzzy to me.  I've always felt the same way about omniweb.

I like to highlight the text as I read it.  I noticed that doesn't consume 100% of the CPU like IE and MOZ do.

As I type this I notice that the cursor doesn't always seem to be in front of the text.  That is bothering me.

I don't care very much about the look of the browser.  I can't relate to peole who do (ok, now my typing is getting way ahead of the browser) but I have noticed that this browser is pretty.  (still don't care)  For example, the slide bar on this text box is a blue oval.

Anyway, it's a nice browser.  I'm going to give it an extended chance to become my default.

Vanguard


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## simX (Apr 6, 2002)

It turns into this because I'm trying to convey to people it's usability, not it's potential, and you seem to think I'm bashing Chimera needlessly!

We all know that Chimera could become a browser that's light years ahead of OmniWeb.  But at 0.2, it's not.

Yes, antialiased text is very nice.

Yes, preferences (although only one of the tabs works) are nice!

Yes, the new icon is nice.

Yes, the new tabbing control is nice.

But I'm still waiting for text fields that don't have to catch up to you.

gplex, I'm a practical guy.  Yes, I do have dreams, but having a perfect browser is not really one of them.  I like to use one browser, go to the webpages that I regularly visit, respond to some postings, and then go do something else.  It's really that simple.  But Navigator 0.2 doesn't allow me to do that, so that's why I'm stating it here.

The question is, why do I always have to defend my position?


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## homer (Apr 6, 2002)

Can we expect it to get slower as it comes closer to 1.0 release?  Or will it maintain its great speed?


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## themacko (Apr 6, 2002)

Can someone post some screenshots?  I don't have a Mac right now  and would like to at least _see_ what I'm missing.


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

sim, Because you or someone else always starts and arguement in one tof these threads. I'm not saying its finished. Sorry that my first post didn't warn people about that, I thougt that maybe 0.2 gave it away...

I dont even use it as my default browser. Omniweb is in that position!! Can both of us stop littering up these threads with arguements and maybe have some nice disscussion and reviews like vanguard.

vanguard, very nice and fair review.



P.S. sim, I'm not madat you just a little annoyed


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

homer, it should stay this fast!

macko, screenshot coming right up!


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## vanguard (Apr 6, 2002)

(Hmm, I can click in the subject box now)

How do I get my mozilla bookmarks and cookies into Chimera?  I can't seem to where chimera stores them.

Thanks in advance,
Vanguard

PS  FWIW, I didn't think anybody was being harsh.  I thought simx gave it a try and said it wasn't for him.  Furthermore, he seemed to say that he would try it again in another version if he continues to hear nice things.  No problems.


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

screenshot:


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

vanguard, I'm not sure about the cookies or bookmarks. Post on the newsgroup/mailing list.


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## simX (Apr 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *sim, Because you or someone else always starts and arguement in one tof these threads. I'm not saying its finished. Sorry that my first post didn't warn people about that, I thougt that maybe 0.2 gave it away...
> 
> I dont even use it as my default browser. Omniweb is in that position!! Can both of us stop littering up these threads with arguements and maybe have some nice disscussion and reviews like vanguard.
> ...



Well I'm the one that should be annoyed.  I posted my review and it provoked a reaction  sure it focused on the negatives, but it was a review nontheless.

Whatever.

Anyway, I have to admit that Chimera is the only other browser (besides OmniWeb, of course  ) that looks half-decent in Mac OS X.


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

sim, lets both stop argueing. . I really don't want to do this anymore. Thank you for complimenting it there .


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## vanguard (Apr 6, 2002)

Friends,

I found the file that stores the bookmarks.  It was in this dir: ~/.mozilla/Profiles/Chimera/slqzc163.slt and it's named bookmarks.xml .

I can see the temptation to store the data in xml.  However, the fact that it's not using the standard html format the mozilla uses means that it's hard for me to keep my bookmarks in sync without a conversion utility.  As far as I can tell, it doesn't come with one.

On a smaller note, I wish it was stored under ~/Library/whatever.  That would be more in line with the osx standards I've observed so far.

Also, it seems to be a little faster than normal mozilla at opening tabs, new windows, etc.

So, I'll probably switch back to mozilla and look forward to future chimera releases.  The bookmark thing is a personal showstopper.

Vanguard


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## voice- (Apr 6, 2002)

Chimera is a tad faster at opening tabs...now, how the fuck do I close them?
Tabs are important to me, and the only real reason to use any Mozilla build. I want Chimera to be the ultimate OS X browser, I really do. I want it to have the lloks and Aqua feel of OmniWeb, the tabs and support of Mozilla and the speed to put both of them to shame, but it looks bad when I can't:

Close tabs
Right/ctrl-click
Log in(yup, it wouldn't let me log in)
Import my Mozilla favorites
[/list=a]


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## googolplex (Apr 6, 2002)

commad-Y to close tabs.

I can log in...


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## ddma (Apr 6, 2002)

I like the new icons. But Chimera seems that doesn't support Chinese characters yet or any other 2-byte characters.

Cheers!


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## phatsharpie (Apr 6, 2002)

Yeah, the text field update speed is slow, but Chimera/Navigator is amazing for a 0.2 release browser! I like the anti-aliasing! Definitely not ready to be a default browser yet, but this is gonna be one kick butt browser when it's at version 1.

Great job Chimera/Navigator developers! You guys rock so hard!!!

-B


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## ksv (Apr 7, 2002)

Wow, this browser rocks! And typing in text field isn't lagging at all  
At least not when not typing more than 250 WPM  
Now, bye-bye to IE and bye-bye to microsoft. Finally I can have a 100 % microsoft free computer. The reason for no switching earlier was that all other browsers than IE was actually slower than IE on my old machine.


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## simX (Apr 7, 2002)

I admit that the text field problem will probably not be as bad to many users as it is to me, because I use the dvorak keyboard layout.  It has seriously increased my typing speed by about 20-25 WPM, so I can probably complete a typing test at around 90-100 WPM (these are just guesses, I've never actually tested myself).

Still, NO application should lag behind your typing, no matter how fast you type.

Ah, well.  I can always wait for Navigator 0.3. 

(gplex, I'm just being funny -- I still am waiting for the day when I can use Navigator exclusively, but now's not that day)


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## ksv (Apr 7, 2002)

I can see your point.
Let's wait for 1.0  
0.2 is only an alpha anyway. I can't get menus to work, either, what's that?
Let's go and find mozilla, and use that when I need menus working. This really makes sense. What a perfectly organized and clean world we live in


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## voice- (Apr 7, 2002)

simX, do you mind filling me in on this?


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## ksv (Apr 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *simX, do you mind filling me in on this? *



It's a more effecient keyboard layout than qwerty, where the first 4 letters are dvorak, not qwerty


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## ddma (Apr 7, 2002)

but how long did you take to convert from qwerty?


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## ksuther (Apr 7, 2002)

Well, I got it to crash about 20 seconds after it's loaded by clicking on the show sidebar thing 
Other than that, it's quite zippy

Kind of strange, the name change though. Cause half of it is Chimera (the dock icon), and half of it is Navigator. Why couldn't they just stick with Chimera? :-/

It doesn't seem as lightning fast anymore, but that may be because OmniWeb has sped up dramatically since I've last used 0.13.
It's getting there though...


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## julguribye (Apr 7, 2002)

why does everyone here name it Chimera when it's new name is "Navigator"? 

one thing good i noticed: when you roll your mouse over a link on these forums it turns orange, some browsers doesn't even have support for that. thats good


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## ksv (Apr 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by julguribye _
> *why does everyone here name it Chimera when it's new name is "Navigator"?
> *



It's project name is still Chimera


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## ksuther (Apr 7, 2002)

Wait a minute, so they have a project name and a real name? That's stupid. That's like advertising a store and then when you go there it's named something else...


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## googolplex (Apr 7, 2002)

navigator is the product but the project is called chimera. Just like how AOL has netscape but the project is mozilla. I think...


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## Valrus (Apr 7, 2002)

Ah, ksv...

'Dvorak' is six letters. 

-the valrus


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## simX (Apr 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *It's a more effecient keyboard layout than qwerty, where the first 5 letters are dvorak, not qwerty  *



I couldn't tell if ksv was trying to be funny here or not, but the dvorak keyboard is named for the creator, not the keyboard layout.  I'm not sure of the creator's first name, but he did extensive research on typing, and came up with this very efficient layout.

Here's what it looks like (sort of):

First line: ',.pyfgcrl/		(this is the line right under the numbers)

Second line: aoeuidhtns-	(this is the home row)

Third line: ;qjkxbmwvz		(this is the line below the home row)

In addition, the [ and ] keys are in place of the = and - on the QWERTY keyboard, and the = key is in the place of ] on the QWERTY keyboard.

The guy who made the layout did some very effective studies.  The dvorak keyboard layout offers these advantages:

1) It promotes alternating typing.  That means that you generally type one letter of a word with one hand, the second letter with the other hand, the third with the first, and so on.  Of course, not every word follows this pattern, but much more so than the QWERTY keyboard layout.  The result?  The longest word you type with one hand is papaya, a 6 letter word.  Here are longer words that are all typed with one hand on the QWERTY keyboard layout:

devastated, exacerbate, exaggerated, desegregated, stargazers, stewardess, streetcars, sweetbread, aftertaste, reverberated, uphill, killjoy, million, minimum, opinion, pumpkin, lollipop, monopoly

There are many more than that.

2) To go along with number 1, all of the vowels are on the home row in your left hand.  Since most words generally do not have vowels together, this furthers the alternating typing style.  Also, 70% of all letters typed are on the home row of the Dvorak layout.  This compares to 31% for QWERTY.  Obviously this is a tremendous benefit.

3) On the dvorak keyboard layout, you generally type with a strumming motion.  The letters are arranged so that a strumming pattern, similar to the way a person would strum their fingers on a table, is encouraged. This provides more comfort to the hands. It is an often overlooked advantage of Dvorak.

Basically this means that as you type, you generally type from the outside in and then repeat the process.

A little history -- when typewriters were first invented, the keyboard was basically alphabetical, and it was much faster than the QWERTY keyboard layout.  Because typewriters were mechanical, fast typing would often cause them to jam.  Because of this, the QWERTY keyboard layout was invented to make typing as *difficult* as possible.  Of course, with computers, this is no longer a problem, so the dvorak keyboard layout is much more efficient.

I found a great dvorak keyboard typing tutor (that also includes QWERTY typing drills), called Master Key.  It's native in OS X, too.   I did a lot of typing drills in Master Key for about 3 weeks, and after that, I was already typing faster than I did on the QWERTY keyboard layout.  I must say, though, that my hands are much more comfortable when typing in the dvorak keyboard layout -- I don't put as much strain on them.

Furthermore, since I have no other computer that uses the dvorak keyboard layout, I am forced to use the QWERTY keyboard layout in other places.  Although I don't particularly care for the QWERTY keyboard layout that much, I have come to be able to switch layouts pretty quickly.  So I don't have that much trouble when typing on QWERTY keyboards anymore.

It took about another 3 weeks to be able to type well on both layouts, so it takes about 6 weeks to get used to, overall.

(A lot of this information came from http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~dylan/dvorak/DvorakIntl.html )

I should mention one more benefit, though.  It basically secures you as the only user of your computer.  Whenever my relatives or friends sit down at my computer, they can't type at all, so my computer is basically unusable unless they bring their own keyboard.


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## googolplex (Apr 7, 2002)

wow we are really talking about navigator here 

Anyways sim can't you have a per-login keyboard layout? I'd love to learn dvorak but I'd be worried about switching back and forth. Is that typing program you talked about expensive? Do you have a url for it?


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## simX (Apr 7, 2002)

I think you can have a per-login layout, but the one thing that is global is the login window (which obviously poses a problem).

http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/kind=1&db=mac&id=7567/MasterKeyC.sit

That's the direct download URL for the latest Mac OS X native version of Master Key (I believe it's carbon so it should work in OS 9 too).  Master Key is $15, but allows limited typing before you register  it allows you to do a couple drills of the home row, and then a drill for the whole keyboard (you'd basically have to teach yourself).  I'd recommend getting it, though, because it's a really good typing program.  The only decent one for a dvorak keyboard.

Here's an image of the dvorak keyboard layout (the keys on the right edge are a little shorter than most keyboards).







Note that on all Apple Pro Keyboards, you can just pop off the keys and rearrange them.  That's what I did with mine -- it was originally a black QWERTY Apple Pro Keyboard.  It's very easy to do (and it allows you to clean your keyboard).  Just use something like a toothpick or something from your swiss army knife.  Once you get one off, you can get all the rest off with your fingers.  When you do take off the keys, though, watch out for keys like the space and the shift keys: longer keys usually have a metal bar that assists it to staying on the keyboard.

gplex:  Like I said, it takes about 6 weeks to get used to both keyboards after learning the dvorak keyboard layout.  But lemme tell you, it's a relief typing in the dvorak keyboard layout.  I much prefer it.....

... although you'll probably end up hating Navigator 0.2 afterwards because it won't be able to keep up with your typing.   


UPDATE:  Oh, a couple of things I should mention when using the dvorak keyboard layout.  You'll need to use TinkerTool if you want to change the layout that the login window uses.  You'll also probably want to activate the keyboard menu so you can quickly switch between the QWERTY and dvorak keyboard layouts (for games that play weird with the dvorak layout -- like Oni for OS X).

One last thing: if you use the open firmware password, BEWARE.  The QWERTY keyboard layout is HARD WIRED into the firmware, so anything you type will be in the QWERTY keyboard layout.  As such, I tried to password protect my computer, and then ended up having to take out a RAM chip and zap the PRAM because I didn't realize I was typing in the QWERTY keyboard layout.


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## ksuther (Apr 7, 2002)

Heh, homer, you got your answer before you even posted 

Eeeek, your post suddenly disappeared, I guess you saw that too then


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## simX (Apr 7, 2002)

homer:  See my above post.  You can easily change the keyboard mappings in OS X and OS 9 by going to the International preference pane (go to the "Keyboard Menu" tab) or the Keyboard control panel.

Furthermore, the physical keys of any Apple Pro Keyboard should be fairly easy to remove and switch around if you really wanted to.  Just be careful and don't force the keys off.


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## homer (Apr 7, 2002)

Yeah, your post beat mine by about two seconds, and then I deleted mine.  But thanks for answering the question!


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## homer (Apr 7, 2002)

I found a "rant" by some guy regarding Apple's implementation of Dvorak.

http://www.jerrykindall.com/atlength/xdvorak.asp

I was wondering what your thoughts might be on this, in particular the thing about the system passing key codes rather than character codes, and how much trouble this is. . . .


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## googolplex (Apr 7, 2002)

how about we start a dvorak thread!


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## homer (Apr 7, 2002)

Done, and done!


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## designer (Apr 8, 2002)

Oh my god.

This is most beautiful browser and it's free!

It only needs plug-ins, and it's only V. 0.2


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## googolplex (Apr 8, 2002)

and its fast


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## fryke (Apr 8, 2002)

To sum it up...

Quartz rendering is nice. But OW has had that for quite a while now. chimera feels slow now. Just what I thought before. And it suffers the things OmniWeb has found a way around.

Plus it can't display justified text any more, which it could before. :/

OW feels faster in the latest sneakypeeks and now in the beta 2 of 4.1. Also the lack of plugin support disqualifies chimera. It's a nice project, and maybe in a year or two it'll be 'good for general consumption' - right now it's a plastic pet you can't cuddle. And the X-Window style buttons are plain ugly.


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