# Shaddup about G5 PowerBooks already!



## Randman (Jan 16, 2005)

Sorry, but gotta rant on this one.
  I am truly tired of hearing people ask about G5 PowerBooks as if they'll be some Holy Grail and completely revolutionize computing. 
 I own a PB17, rev c, and I've worked on G5 PowerMacs and G5 iMacs. And while the desktops are more powerful, in the long run, the increase in power won't be life-altering.
   If more people just got a little more ram, performances would increase as much if not more than going to a 1.8 G5.

  The PB line will go to G5 at some time, but the PM and iMacs line looks as if it'll be ahead of the curve then. Plus, you have rev a, which I've always been a little leery of.

If you have an older system, get an iMac or PM if you truly crave a G5. If you have a rev b or rev c PB, be happy with it until it's time to upgrade.
   But jeez, having people create posts every other day asking if PowerBook G5s are coming around the corner is laughable at this point.

Am I alone in this thinking, or is it that I'm just immune to the Reality Distortion Field on this one?


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 16, 2005)

I actually agree with you, Rand. However, I think there is something behind major upgrades. You are right, there can't be so much increase in speed (if at all). But there is some magic behind new stuff that I can't describe. I am very curious how the cooling would work, how the new case (if) looks like, if they will renew the screens, how the battery duration will be.. It's not really about the G5 processor. We know how the G5s perform and that a G5 powerbook wouldn't out-perform the current PM. But..


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## symphonix (Jan 16, 2005)

Yeah, I feel the same way as you Randman. For anyone who has asked me recently if its worth waiting for a G5 PowerBook to be released, I've told them simply No. These are not likely to be released in the first half of this year, and even when they are released, they're not going to be _much_ faster than the existing G4s. Now, if you want to hang around until September-December-ish which is what my best info suggests is the date for the launch of the G5 PowerBook, and then wait another 6-8 weeks for one to be delivered, and then have a cry on the forums because a 1.6 ghz G5 is only marginally faster than a 1.5 ghz G4, then frankly I don't want to hear it.

The current PowerBook is powerful, well designed, proven and very affordable. If that's not good enough for you, you will not find a better laptop anywhere else - period.


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## Pengu (Jan 16, 2005)

I think maybe people expect other updates with the G5.. Optical audio, SATA, decent speed FSB, faster RAM, etc..


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## Randman (Jan 16, 2005)

Pengu said:
			
		

> I think maybe people expect other updates with the G5.. Optical audio, SATA, decent speed FSB, faster RAM, etc..


Like any of those things couldn't come with a rev d G4?


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## Cat (Jan 16, 2005)

Indeed, some couldn't. G4: "decent speed FSB" sold separately. The G5 PMs have ~ TEN TIMES the FSB speed of the G4 based machines. That could be worth waiting for IMHO ... if indeed they come out this year.


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## Pengu (Jan 16, 2005)

Im not saying they couldn't.. but given that most of those things are controlled by the new co-developed system controller in the G5, im guessing they won't come soon... I mean. RAM is still fast. and you can add a USB optical port.. but stuff like the FSB and SATA have REAL benefits, but are somewhat a limitation of the G4 (well, FSB is at least)


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## Perseus (Jan 16, 2005)

Yes, I was curious at some point about powerbook G5s, but not because I thought it would be some life altering thing. I was only wondering, plain and simple.


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## Randman (Jan 16, 2005)

Cat said:
			
		

> Indeed, some couldn't. G4: "decent speed FSB" sold separately. The G5 PMs have ~ TEN TIMES the FSB speed of the G4 based machines. That could be worth waiting for IMHO ... if indeed they come out this year.


There's no way a PB could jump to 10 times the performance of a rev c PowerBook.


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## adambyte (Jan 16, 2005)

Actually, I don't know if any of you have heard this, but it's been _proven_ in scientific studies that a 64-bit processor laptop increases your quality of life by at least two times, and very often more.

I'm curious about a new PowerBook, but not amazingly anxious, like some.


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## Arden (Jan 16, 2005)

I found the perfect solution to anybody who's still whining about a G5 Powerbook: an iMac and an iLugger case.  One of the expo demonstrators showed me how the bag was designed to protect the foot and hold the keyboard and mouse securely.  Sure, you'll need access to a power port, and a phone jack if you want to go online, but hell, it's better than BITCHING AND MOANING.


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## symphonix (Jan 16, 2005)

adambyte said:
			
		

> Actually, I don't know if any of you have heard this, but it's been _proven_ in scientific studies that a 64-bit processor laptop increases your quality of life by at least two times, and very often more.



LOL.  That seems about the size of it.

A lot of these recent posts are screaming "oh, woe is me! There's no G5 PowerBook! How am I supposed to do any real work! I'm forever doomed to rip CDs in iTunes at 12x rather than 15x speed! My iMovie transitions might take at least 0.3 seconds longer to process! Why don't I just go kill myself?! Waaah..."


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## drunkmac (Jan 16, 2005)

Im with Randman...especially with people saying theyll come out with iBooks at the same time. I mean I used to have an iBook...but...now I have a Powerbook 

And cooling people. Cooling is a big issue with the G5 chip.

BUT. You cannot compare a G4 system to a G5 system. That G5 has a lot of better things than your quiksilver G4. And nice post symphonix lol...


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## chevy (Jan 17, 2005)

I had the chance to compare my 1 GHz G4 iMac with a 1.8 GHz G5 iMac... the difference is REAL ! I don't know if it's necessary, but it's real. If you do some iPhoto, or iMovie, you feel it !


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## fryke (Jan 17, 2005)

There's also yet another reason why I think it's important for Apple to move on with the PowerBooks. Two, actually...

First: The current PowerBooks are old. They're good, but they've been around for too long a time. I have one, I know they're 'good', but Apple should've been able to go 1.6, 1.7 and 1.8 GHz with the G4s by now in my opinion. Might not be their fault at all, but those 1.5 GHz models are, in fact, old models. It shouldn't be that the 'Power'Book is lower spec than the iMac for such a long time, too. Both in processor generation and pure GHz speed as well. I think it's just somehow wrong.

But there's a second reason. The iBooks. Their performance is MUCH too close to the PowerBooks' now, compared to the price difference. I don't have any numbers (and Apple doesn't exactly give them out), but I don't think Apple will sell many PowerBooks these days. Sure, if you're on a Pismo and it's finally giving up on you (for whatever reason, be it performance or because you've lost it, it was stolen or it just dies...) and you absolutely need one, why not. But I guess many of those would also consider an iBook now. Because the extra they pay for a PowerBook just doesn't seem justified.

Overall, I don't really care whether the next PowerBook is a G5 or a G4, but they ought to replace them faster. That's my opinion. Don't let those PowerBooks be 'new' for more than 9 months. Rather, replace them after SIX months, please. Be it faster optical drives, a mere hundred MHz, a better basic RAM configuration and/or a faster video card... I say: Advance faster.


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## Randman (Jan 17, 2005)

Advance faster? C'mon, be real. Don't you think Apple would have released them, if they had them at the ready?
  And comparing a 1Ghz G4 to a 1.8 G5 is a much bigger difference than a 1.5 G4 to a 1.6 or 1.8 G5.


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## fryke (Jan 17, 2005)

Because of the "G5" name? Or because of the 64bit bus that's not really used yet in real-world applications so far? Or because of Joe Average's thunking of "G5" must be better than "G4" simply? Don't even go there. The benchmarking of the iMacs show that the G5 processor alone doesn't cut it.

But when I say they should 'advance faster', I'm talking more general. 1.5 GHz G4 PowerBooks were available April 2004. Do you really want to tell me Apple could _not_ have released 1.6 or 1.7 GHz G4 models with a slightly better graphics card or something in Autumn 2004 or January 2005? They wouldn't have had to create a new mobo or case or screen, just update some components, like they did before, coming from 1.33 GHz to the 'current' generation... That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure they would have sold more PowerBooks in the past quarter if they had an update to the PB line ready when the iBooks were updated.


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## Randman (Jan 17, 2005)

Ah, now I get you.


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## delsoljb32 (Jan 21, 2005)

we may never see a G5 PB, maybe a G6 or G7? once we stop depending on heat producing technologies for computing power, we can see a revolution in portable computing. i wonder how far away we are from nanotechnology and light-based computing? if they were able to use light (i.e. microscopic fiber optics??) for CPU and chip technology, heat probably wouldnt be the issue anymore. (dunno, not a physicist, nor a computer hardware scientist, just speculating)


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## Randman (Jan 31, 2005)

Hopefully, this revision will keep the masses quiet .. for a short time.


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## Viro (Feb 1, 2005)

No it won't. People will still be asking about the G5's. It'll never end


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## texanpenguin (Feb 1, 2005)

It's curious to see how closely Fryke's details of what he wants in a PowerBook G4 all seemed to come true in the last update (including the update itself).

Perhaps Apple's business plan is as complex as "Do what Fryke says"?

Fryke, would you mind writing a short gripe about how dual-core G4s should have been developed by now... or at least some way to fit two of them into a PowerBook... oh, with a free trade-up policy for current 15" PowerBook G4 owners?


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## g/re/p (Feb 24, 2005)

Oh MAN!  When oh when will the G5 powerbooks be released!!????

(giggle)


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Feb 24, 2005)

What I'd like to know is why do people who seemingly "need" a G5 PowerBook continue to ask average Macintosh users with no connection to Apple when they'll be released?  Even if some of us did have connections to Apple, do those people think that those connections somehow entitle them to privileged information like the G5 PowerBook release date?  Do they want an exact date?  Ballpark estimate (within a month... two months... six months... not this year... etc.)?

If you're an average Joe who visits the forums and you don't know when the G5 PowerBooks are going to be released, what in the world gave you the _stupid_ idea that other average Joes, just like you, would know?


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## delsoljb32 (Mar 3, 2005)

haha, very good El', I am wondering just what sort of computing power these people need on their laps! For one thing, I believe they are some sort of S&M cult who wish to roast their "bits" with the high heat of the supposed G5 'book. If you NEED G5 power, get a desktop, at least for now. I believe (and again, not an expert) that we are approaching a plateau in terms of internal chip design vs. usability in various platforms. I just wish people would stop asking for the GB books. Do these people absolutely HAVE to reconstruct the human genome while sipping their $9 coffee at starbucks?? NO!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2005)

My thoughts exactly.  Most would say I'm "limping" along with a 6 year old computer, yet it serves me just fine.  I'm not a novice when it comes to computers, and I'd be willing to bet I can accomplish more with this old hunk of junk than those who seemingly need "bleeding edge" technology.

A faster computer doesn't make you any better, nor does it allow you to do things you couldn't do before.  I can cut video on this old machine just as good as anyone on a G5 could -- sure, they can probably render it faster, but the speed at which the actual "work" takes place is dependent on the skill of the operator.

Would I like to have a G5 PowerBook?  Most definitely.  Do I need one?  Most definitely not.  I've heard a lot of people threatening to "jump ship" on Apple if the G5 PowerBook doesn't make it soon... why?  They just gotta learn the difference between "want" and "need."  You need food.  You need water.  You need air.  You don't need a PowerBook G5.


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## chornbe (Mar 3, 2005)

G5 in a portable is currently limited by a simple four letter word.

h-e-a-t

Period.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2005)

"Yeah, but it's Apple!  And IBM!  They've got billions of dollars and technology -- they should be able to figure it out by now!  Apple's holding back for some reason -- just to tick me off!"

Shaddap, dumbass.  I hear that argument over and over.


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## chornbe (Mar 3, 2005)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly.  Most would say I'm "limping" along with a 6 year old computer, yet it serves me just fine.  I'm not a novice when it comes to computers, and I'd be willing to bet I can accomplish more with this old hunk of junk than those who seemingly need "bleeding edge" technology.



Yeah, I love that "my computer is out of date" argument. It's not like some magic date is going to come along and the computer will melt. And contrary to what it may seem to the yoinks who buy into the retail 'experts', the computer doesn't creep to a halt (excepting software bloat and download-ware, of course) over time. All things being equal, computers run just as fast 10 years old as the day they were built. It's only when you load it up with software and try to run software beyond the machine limits do they 'slow down' with use.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2005)

Yup... my girlfriend's parents were amazed when I reloaded Windows ME (yep, they're stuck in the stone age) on their computer.  They had so much spyware and crap installed that it took ages to do anything.  I wiped it clean, reloaded ME and a good virus scanner, set up their firewall, and everything's been speedy since.

I'll bet Dell hates me... they wanna get another few years out of this computer now!

It's not just Macs that last a long time in theory -- although in real life that's usually the case since we're not targets of virii and spyware as much as Windows is.  I'll bet at least half of the people looking for a new, faster computer do so because their current one is slow due to spyware and crap software all over the place. Little do they realize it's not the computer that's slow, but the software...


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## MBHockey (Mar 3, 2005)

chornbe said:
			
		

> Yeah, I love that "my computer is out of date" argument. It's not like some magic date is going to come along and the computer will melt.



Haha.  I'm extremely content with my 1.5 year old 1 GHz TiPB.  I don't plan on getting a new Mac until after grad school (another 4-5 years or so)...

...and what a great day that will be


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 4, 2005)

A G5 powerbook would be a major upgrade which will most probably come along with a new case design. I would lie if I say I am not hardly waiting for it. I don't believe there will be an increase in speed toward the current G4 chips as less as I believe it will run as hot as many in this forum think. It wouldn't take ibm or apple so much time to release a G5 in the powerbooks if they were planing to picked the desktop chips. Beside that I would be very curious how they will connect the memory to the system and how the higher fsb (if at all) will influence the system and also if we'll finally get a dual layer burner in the books and a hdtv accelerating graphic unit. 
So, I think most of the ppl are not so much curious about the G5 chip in the upcoming powerbooks but rather what will be included in this major update. We all know how the G5s perform and that they are not so roughly outperforming current G4 systems (Mac Mini vs. iMac G5).


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## padishahemperor (Mar 7, 2005)

MBHockey said:
			
		

> Haha.  I'm extremely content with my 1.5 year old 1 GHz TiPB.  I don't plan on getting a new Mac until after grad school (another 4-5 years or so)...
> 
> ...and what a great day that will be



mmh, my last Mac was in 97, I don't know if things have changed but one thing that always struck me about Mac users was the lack of the constant upgrade mentality which is prevalent in the PC world. When my Mac comes, short of a disaster (like with my old Mac) I won't be upgrading for a long time.


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## Lt Major Burns (Mar 7, 2005)

i saw a sony vaio in dixons the other day.  it was truly tine, half the size of a 12" pBook.  i thought - laughable little pda!  but no.  instead of an even smaller desktop space than the stupid 12" pBook (1024x768 is impossible for pro apps these days, it's useless as a promachine - if you want to show clients work, print it out! don't spend £1500) it had a bigger deskspace nearly, than the 15" pBook

10" display, 1280x768 screen res.  that was bloody impressive.  

for the next powerbooks they need to get this into commission.  imagine if you will:
the 16" (17  really is too big to carry around ) HD Powerbook

as for G5: no.  it is the time now for desktop and notebook processors to go seperate ways - a powerhouse on your desk, a portable on your lap - look at the intel centrino technology and also mobile graphics.  wintel have seen that low energy consumption and optimised-for-wi-fi are of far greater importance than sheer clock speed now.  apple should see this too.  the IBM PowerPC 'M'5 chip?   mobile mac chips.  

pc laptops now are making the powerbooks look a bit silly.  they're not the smallest anymore, nor the fastest, not even the sexiest anymore in some cases.  just... apple, now


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## chornbe (Mar 7, 2005)

If the WinTel world would chop back on the "let's cram everything onto this portable multimedia workhorse" so the current flavor of notebooks didn't look so crazy, the power and usefulness of the Centrino would really shine. right now it's kind of blurred under a layer of digital bling that really makes a lot of current WinTel notebooks look like stupid overkill. It's the main reason I bought my iBook. It's simple, clean and has a very basic look and feel - exactly what I was looking for. The battery life is kicking butt and it's plenty fast enough for everything I run.

$.02


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## texanpenguin (Mar 8, 2005)

The reason that most people are so anxious for G5 PowerBooks is that they know that it's only a matter of time before Apple releases a G5 in a laptop form-factor, and they don't want to go out and buy a really high-end G4 PowerBook that, in two or three months time is completely out of date. I have a G3 PowerBook. It is the weakest system in my house in OS X - there'll be an OS revision in the not TOO distant future (I'm thinking 10.7) that will be fully 64-bit, in which case the G4 PowerBooks will again be useless.

It's perfectly understandable to want for a G5 PowerBook; they're supposed to be Powerful machines. Now they're just iBooks with shorter battery life, better screens and slightly faster clock-speed.


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## Randman (Mar 8, 2005)

I think people just hear G5 PowerBook and assume it'll be a massive difference in computing, which it won't. Dual-core G4 might hit 2.0Ghz before a single-core G5 in a PB. 
  If a G5 came out, it'll be about 1.8Ghz. The hard drives are already 100GB and the video card got any upgrade with the rev ds. Plus, it'll be only for the 17s and maybe the 15s. Even if they conquered the heat and power issues, I think the iMac will need to get a performance bump first.


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## chornbe (Mar 8, 2005)

Oh, no argument that they're desired and people are anxious for them. But, for me, the questions of necessity and price/power trade off come in to play. For what you can spend on a top end notebook of major power, you can alternately get yourself a decent iBook or low-end powerbook, *and* a sweet G5 iMac. I would venture to say it's the rare person who *needs* the power of a major dual G5 PowerMac *and* a top end PowerBook or the portability it offers. 

Apple would be really ill advised to rush a niche product to market before it's really ready. Pentium/4 top end notebooks are an abysmal failure because of... wait for it... power consumption and heat... You won't hear much about it but Toshiba just recalled *another* 889 b'zillion batteries or system-boards for charging systems, or some crap like that, and Intel is secretly/quietly admonishing notebook makers for building machines out of spec (Intel does not officially recommend any P4, non "m" class, for portable use). Behind the scenes, to which I'm partially privy due to some friends I've made over the years in various companies, it's a pretty hectic time to be in the computer manufacturing biz.

Anyway, the Centrinos are kicking butt (again, if you can stomache the rediculous case designs and over-engineered plethora of pointless buttons) because they were made from the git-go to address problems particular to the mobile market.

$.02



			
				texanpenguin said:
			
		

> The reason that most people are so anxious for G5 PowerBooks is that they know that it's only a matter of time before Apple releases a G5 in a laptop form-factor, and they don't want to go out and buy a really high-end G4 PowerBook that, in two or three months time is completely out of date. I have a G3 PowerBook. It is the weakest system in my house in OS X - there'll be an OS revision in the not TOO distant future (I'm thinking 10.7) that will be fully 64-bit, in which case the G4 PowerBooks will again be useless.
> 
> It's perfectly understandable to want for a G5 PowerBook; they're supposed to be Powerful machines. Now they're just iBooks with shorter battery life, better screens and slightly faster clock-speed.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 8, 2005)

No computer ever released was outdated in two or three months.  That's a big exaggeration.  If I purchased a 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook now, I'd rest assured that it would not be outdated for at least a year or two -- even with the presence of G5 PowerBooks.


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## texanpenguin (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't mean useless.
I mean out of date. Not new anymore.

People who spend a whole lot of money for something that is the ABSOLUTE top of the line don't want to have something that's not even in the same GENERATION as the next best thing two months later.


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## Qion (Mar 9, 2005)

I agree with Rand, I think that ppl really need to get over their joe-average'ish mentality of having to have the "latest" machine out there. Just because you have the ability to buy the latest, that doesn't mean you need it, or will even USE that extra power. If you have a machine now that you have been using for your work for months or years, then why all of a sudden is it not working? Answer: It still is, your just fighting with the joe-average mentality. I think that ppl need to sit back, relax, and enjoy what Apple is dishing out right now. Apple's been around for a while, and you should be rest-assured that they will do their job. And, as the consumer, you should do your job and stop whining about a 1 second diff in a video editing app or a 5 FPS difference in the latest game.

As for the Wintel world, I think that you all are forgeting a very important point. THEY RUN ON WINDOWS! Come on, why compare ourselves to the cesspool of the computer market? They might have a machine that has a better screen, processor, etc., but that counts as near nothing in my book.


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## Lt Major Burns (Mar 10, 2005)

i saying that they could learn something from the winel world, which *SHOCK* isn't all complete farce.  there are some good ideas there, just a lot of them are badly implemented.  (i still find the mac finder to be slightly clumsy compared to windows 'my computer', but that's another debate entirely.)

i'm saying a dedicated PowerPC portable chip would be a really good direction to go - the G5 has absolutly no consideration for power consumption or heat - the PowerMac G5 is one big cooling tower. beacuse it can be. laptops are'nt unlimited.

but apple also need a major reason for justify a major form factor change - that's the clincher that everyone wants to see - what will the new PBooks look like? that's the exciting bit - where will the innovation come from? and not just the chip - my g5 is fast but it's not completely life changing.  i want silly high-res screens, like i said before - HD (1900x1200) powerbook displays - that'd be pro. - that really would change the way you work, more than 200mHz ever will


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## padishahemperor (Mar 12, 2005)

Qion said:
			
		

> I agree with Rand, I think that ppl really need to get over their joe-average'ish mentality of having to have the "latest" machine out there. Just because you have the ability to buy the latest, that doesn't mean you need it, or will even USE that extra power. If you have a machine now that you have been using for your work for months or years, then why all of a sudden is it not working? Answer: It still is, your just fighting with the joe-average mentality. I think that ppl need to sit back, relax, and enjoy what Apple is dishing out right now. Apple's been around for a while, and you should be rest-assured that they will do their job. And, as the consumer, you should do your job and stop whining about a 1 second diff in a video editing app or a 5 FPS difference in the latest game.
> 
> As for the Wintel world, I think that you all are forgeting a very important point. THEY RUN ON WINDOWS! Come on, why compare ourselves to the cesspool of the computer market? They might have a machine that has a better screen, processor, etc., but that counts as near nothing in my book.



I completely agree with you. Absolutely right.


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