# Get in on the iBox...



## serpicolugnut (Mar 31, 2003)

John Fraser has a novel idea...

Using readily available replacement Powermac Sawtooth motherboards (or Quicksilvers depending on what's available), he is setting out to build a low cost headless Mac, called the iBox.

He even has (courtesy of another DealMac reader) a nice pizza box case designed, and has taken steps to get it manufactured.

While not technically a "clone", since no OS would be able to be bundled, these BYOB machines would run both OS 9, X, and Linux. Plus, they could be sold as kits, allowing for a low price and a high degree of customization. 

Check it out...

http://dealmac.com/forums/read.html?f=1&i=1122559&t=1122559


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## serpicolugnut (Mar 31, 2003)

Also, here's the link to the designers website...
http://www.2khappyware.com/ibox/


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## fryke (Mar 31, 2003)

Sounds like a very interesting idea... 

Basically, that's the box that was rumoured around the time before the eMac was announced. A kind of headless iMac, although of course this has more oomph and is actually cheaper.

If only Apple would hear those wishes and build such a barebones system themselves...


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## ksv (Mar 31, 2003)

Nice idea, but the design is so flawed I'm not sure if that project is really going anywhere


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## senne (Mar 31, 2003)

why is the audio port IN on the front? And the OUT on the back? It should the other way round


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## mightyjlr (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by senne _
> *why is the audio port IN on the front? And the OUT on the back? It should the other way round *



not really.... the out which is on the back goes to the speakers... you wont be plugging and unplugging that connection very much... the audio in is on the front so you can connect a microphone, CD player, MD player etc... which you will switch often..


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## senne (Mar 31, 2003)

ah, i thougt the Audio OUT was the headphone

Where is the headphoneOUT then?


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## twister (Mar 31, 2003)

This is so cool and so cheap.  I'll have to watch and see what happens.  This is a GREAT idea and i hope it actually works out!!

But, after looking at the specs again, what about a hard drive?  And can i put in a much faster processor?  Time will tell.


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## banjo_boy (Mar 31, 2003)

That is cool! $250 - 300! Not bad. Just think if it gets going, custom order your machine unlike anything Apple has ever done.


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## serpicolugnut (Mar 31, 2003)

I'm not sure, but based upon the $250-300 price, I don't think that includes the CPU itself. I could be wrong though... They say supported CPUs will be 800mhz through 1.13ghz, depending upon logic board used.

As for the complaints about where the ports are, etc... Keep in mind these will be based off of either the Sawtooth or Quicksilver logic boards, and the ports will be limited to the I/O that exists on them...

Makes me nostalgic for the first Mac I ever owned (and could afford) - the Quadra 605. It was quite nice to go from using a Mac Plus and SE to a Q605 back in 1993!


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## serpicolugnut (Mar 31, 2003)

According to my searches, this is how the components stack up in price (all are US dollars, of course)...

Logic Board (no CPU): $149-199 (several people state they've been selling for $149, but currently they are $199 - buying a large quantity might lower the price)

CPU: $299 for 800mhz. $465 for 1ghz. $599 for 1.25ghz

512MB of PC100 RAM:$50

40GB HD: $70

Video Card: GeForce2MX (PC card Flash for Mac) $40

Optical Drive: LiteOn 52X CD-R : $56

Powersupply: $75

Case: Still being worked on, so final price is in question, but let's just figure $100 for now...

Total (800mhz version, with LB @ $149) - $839...This doesn't take in to account the other costs associated with building the system - right angle AGP adapter to fit pizza box case, IDE cables, I/O extenders, etc.

Unless John has some good contacts that will give good quantity discounts on all the items, the iBox doesn't look to be realistic, unless it's to prove it can be done, and give the hobbyist the satisfaction of building his own Mac...


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## fryke (Mar 31, 2003)

You're right, it becomes too expensive that way...

I still wish Apple would let us get Macs the way we'd want them. Like, for the PowerMacs: Why not let the buyer decide exactly what processor he or she wants? Depending on the task you want the Mac for, they could still sell single processor 867 MHz machines with lesser graphics card (or without one totally), for some uses a 40 GB harddrive really is enough (or lemme buy it elsewhere), also I might want to add RAM myself, so don't include any at all, and I'll also buy my optical drive somewhere else, thank you?

Well... Wishful thinking. Apple must make money, and certainly they don't want us to kill their margins by selling barebones systems...

But what Apple really could do... A 'basic' box that can't be expanded. A bit like the iMac, just without a monitor. Looking like the iBox, maybe (or at least pizza-style, anyway), with basically the features of the low-end iBook. Heck, they could even TAKE the low-end iBook and strip the monitor away. Suddenly we'd have a sub 600 USD Mac or something like that.


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## Excalibur (Mar 31, 2003)

Good idea. My hope was that Apple would just build the case and motherboard and let the third parties handle the hard drive, monitor, and the Mac CPU makers to the rest. A barbones system yes, but it still allows Apple to basically control the core.

Imagine buying a Tower that way. Should be able to get under $1000 easy that way. Then you can just buy your parts and there you go. Compatibility is basically taken care of. Plus it would allow a bigger market of peripherals. For example... nVidia has made GPUs available for 2 years now and their are NO third party card makers other than Apple. So basically ATi has a no competition on Mac third party cards there. As far as Apple's margin on that, I don't see how it would be too bad considering they just have to test out the MB, and CPUs which they still would have full control of. Be nice, but who knows...


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## gwynarion (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *I still wish Apple would let us get Macs the way we'd want them. Like, for the PowerMacs: Why not let the buyer decide exactly what processor he or she wants...*


While parts of this idea sound nice, I can't see Apple ever doing anything like it.  Apple is in the business of selling complete computer systems that can be used right out of the box by anyone that orders them.  To sell one without RAM or without a hard drive would completely torpeado this central idea.  I also think it ties in with the whole issue of themes in that Apple wants to sell consistency.  Then there's the matter of trimming all the product lines down so that there are not as many different configs to confuse the buyer.

That said I would appreciate the ability to build-to-order with smaller hard drives and a few _less_ options.



> *But what Apple really could do... A 'basic' box that can't be expanded. A bit like the iMac, just without a monitor...  Heck, they could even TAKE the low-end iBook and strip the monitor away. Suddenly we'd have a sub 600 USD Mac or something like that.  *


Isn't this pretty much what the Cube was, and didn't the cube do very poorly?  I know some people were fanatically loyal to their Cubes, but I did think that the sales figures had dubbed that model a failure.


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## Excalibur (Mar 31, 2003)

> Isn't this pretty much what the Cube was, and didn't the cube do very poorly?  I know some people were fanatically loyal to their Cubes, but I did think that the sales figures had dubbed that model a failure.



The price point killed the cube. Had it been $999 it would have sold better. At $1799 it competed with Towers and you got a lot less. If it was targeted as entry level I think it would have done better. A LOT better.


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## serpicolugnut (Mar 31, 2003)

Yeah, I always thought the Cube was a great idea that was marketed very badly.

There was no logical reason to charge $1799 for the Cube. Basically, Apple felt that people would pay a $500-600 premium for the square form factor. While style does sell a computer, there weren't many who would pay a 33% premium for the privilege. However, had the price point been right, Apple would have had the headless entry level Mac that users had been wishing for.


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## pds (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *Yeah, I always thought the Cube was a great idea that was marketed very badly.
> *


  

I think the reason that the Cube is a tank   are as much specs as price point - though the two are related. The style was (is) drop dead gorgeous, but it was only a style upgrade. The guts of the thing had been available in other machines for - what? - a whole year?

I use the mac because I feel comfortable in front of them (and they do what I need), so keep up the style upgrades, but if you want to sell new machines, upgrade processor speed etc etc etc.


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## Excalibur (Apr 14, 2003)

The specs are out and apparently its gonna ship in 2 weeks. We'll see...

http://www.2khappyware.com/corecrib.html


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## wtmcgee (Apr 14, 2003)

i may give one of these things a try after the first adopters give it the run-thru and report back 

for ~$400, i'd give it a try to have something that rivals a powermac dual 1.25ghz machine...


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## Xiao (Apr 14, 2003)

Wait, so there's a tower available now, and the pizza box one coming soon? Can someone explain that to me? Is the tower not iBox? Who made that one? GWAAA! Also will it be compatible with http://www.apple.com/ca/displays/asd17/ that display? Oh wait, yeah, I'd imagine it would be


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## drustar (Apr 15, 2003)

I'd like to see these iBoxes take off. Even though that the processor speeds are not as fast as we'd hope them to be (what was it - max of 1.13ghz?), these iBoxes will set a level playing field: between PC and Mac users.

So I don't have to go to the Apple Store and come out pouting.


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## kenny (Apr 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wtmcgee _
> *for ~$400, i'd give it a try to have something that rivals a powermac dual 1.25ghz machine... *



So would I. But the Dual 1.2G version of the thing weighs in at $1500. Thats sans video, memory and harddrive. Adding memory, harddrive and video brings it to about the same price as the real thing from Apple. Actually, I think it's probably quite a bit worse of a deal, considering that the bus speed is still only 100MHz, Firewire is 400 Mbps, and it's in no way going to be supported by Apple, to say nothing about whether Apple will even tolerate it long-term.

All that said, I've been thinking about upgrading the processor in my G4. The $349 option might be a way for me to recycle the processor I pull from my G4. I certainly have all the other parts laying around that would let me build a reasonable machine on the cheap. I just wouldn't go with a Crib as a first/primary machine...

My $0.02....


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## serpicolugnut (Apr 16, 2003)

The "tower" is just a Mac mobo/ps/guts stuck in a PC clone tower. The pizza box is going to be custom manufactured, and won't be available for a couple of weeks at the earliest.

You could assemble your own Mac clone tower now if you wanted. You can get the mobos from eBay, or MacResQ, along with the power supply. Get yourself a case, add your CPU (available from Macsales.com and elsewhere), your HD, your optical drive, kb/mouse, power up and install your OS. It's not rocket science, just hobbyist electronics.

The benefit of going with Happyware is that the price will be a little cheaper, since he's buying his parts in bulk and reselling them. Also, getting a Mac mobo to sit correctly in a PC case is a bit of a challenge, since the screw positions and holes on the mobo/case aren't compatible. Not sure how he's getting around this. 

One of the guys from TechTV created a similiar Mac clone and had the same problem. He got around it by using plastic twist ties to mount the mobo to the case. Not pretty, but it worked...


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## Xiao (Apr 16, 2003)

Maybe so, but I wonder how hard installing a superdrive will be? That's a big selling point and I wouldn't own a Mac without one.


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## maelgwen (Apr 20, 2003)

So is the i box still coming. Why this now? for pro users maybe. The prices seem a few hundred dollars cheaper than the Apple systems but they still need some work.

Where is he getting the Processors and Logic boards?

Maybe the CoreBox on his website is the place where the iBox will go.


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## serpicolugnut (Apr 20, 2003)

It's still coming. The Crib is just a standard PC case with a Gigabit Ethernet mobo and power supply. You could assemble one of these yourself pretty easily as well. The advtange of getting it from 2kHappyware is they are buying in bulk, and the price should be a bit lower than what you could get just buying 1 of each component.

The CoreBox is still coming, but from what I've heard, they are still working on the case and haven't finalized it yet.


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