# Things Apple forgot in OS X



## IslandJordan (Oct 4, 2000)

There are a few things I have found kinds of anoying that Apple didn't include in OS X, and that I haven't seen anywhere else in these message boards, so if you could ask Apple for them, that'd be swell.

1) Smart Scrollers. They gave 'em to us. Got us used to them, and took them away! How could they!??

2) Contextual dock. I wanna be able to drag FOLDERS to the dock, and THEN, drag items INTO the folders. That'd be cool, wouldn't it?

3) An email server that supports newsgroups. Oops.

4) An email server that supports multiple email accounts owned by one user. For instance, I have an Earthlink account AND a Boston University account. I want to be able to SEND an email from either of those accounts without logging out of the finder completely!

5) Spring loaded folders. Okay, they've talked about that one already, but it is still a must-have!

6) Apple needs to bring the focus back to the desktop. The sneaky devils some how managed to get us to forget about the desktop as a handy "throw anything here" feature. Well, they can take my life, BUT THEY CAN'T TAKE MY FREEDOM! Have an icon of Macintosh HD on the desktop, for the love of Pete. We've delt with it since the beginning of the Mac OS... it is what makes us Mac users! Bring it back!

7) Okay, what the dilly yo? What happened to Themes and other desktop customization things. Suuure, I can change my desktop pattern and stuff, but there are no sounds, etc.

8) How 'bout giving ALL beta testers who submit over 10 VALID feature requests a FREE copy of the Final Version. I mean, I'll pay for the 10¢ CD and the shipping... I'll even pay for the time it takes to burn the code. Charge me $10. But we spent a lot of time messing up OUR systems to make the new OS better. Okay ?

9) Tell them to give the nice, poor college student (namely, me) his money back for paying for a BRAND SPANKIN' NEW iBook Graphite just WEEKS before releasing the NEW iBooks for the same friggin' price!

Yeah, so that's all. Does anyone know Steve Jobs' email address?

Thanks!

Jordan


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## rhino (Oct 4, 2000)

actualy,  I do know the address... heh heh heh.  it's easier than you think


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## David R (Oct 4, 2000)

sjobs (at) apple.com   (not typing the whole thing together so that spam robots don't pick it up, although I am sure he gets his share of spam)

Anyway, he does read all emails and he replies to several everyday.  I wrote to him and he replied personall in under 12 hours.  How many CEOs do that?


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## holsenb (Oct 5, 2000)

How about a restart menu item without having to log out?!


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## annette (Oct 5, 2000)

> _Originally posted by holsenb _
> *How about a restart menu item without having to log out?! *



Hold down the option key while in the Special menu...  

Or, from the terminal:
<pre>restart -r now</pre>


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## mashima (Oct 6, 2000)

Get a clue. You say these things and you are using OSX? Why? Stick to the Launcer and big buttons. 

MAIL doesn't support NNTP news because it's a mail app. News should be handled by a good NNTP client like newswatcher. Although I hate it's news functions, Outlook Express for OSX would be great. BTW Mail.app is a mail CLIENT not a server. Just little details that sound like nails on a chalkboard to a nerd like myself. 

Mail does support multiple accounts. You can't switch between them very easily but you can send from them no problem.

I have Earthlink and a mail account at the ISP that I work at. (hey I've had Earthlink for 4 years. I'm not giving up my address). I dialup using Earthlink so I set the outgoing SMTP server to mail.earthlink.net and I can send from either account. It's that simple.


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## IslandJordan (Oct 6, 2000)

So, I guess I don't understand. I need to send mail from  Earthlink AND from 2 people on the BU account. My roommate doesn't have a computer, and I want him to be able to send an email from mail.app with HIS name on them, without having to go in and change the preferences, and without having to restart the computer.

How would I do that? As far as I know, there is only one Outgoing Mail server you can enter. How do I enter multiple accounts?

I think having a news and a mail server in one app is very nice. I think people would forgive apple if they put a news server in the application, even if it was called just Mail.

Thanks.

Jordan


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## LunaMorena (Oct 8, 2000)

> _Originally posted by IslandJordan _
> *8) How 'bout giving ALL beta testers who submit over 10 VALID feature requests a FREE copy of the Final Version. I mean, I'll pay for the 10 CD and the shipping... I'll even pay for the time it takes to burn the code. Charge me $10. But we spent a lot of time messing up OUR systems to make the new OS better. Okay ?*



do you have any idea how many duplicate feedback reports apple gets?  Sure, they're all valid... but they're also identical.

what I think would be a lot more cost-effective all around would be getting $20 off or so from the final release if you purchased a copy of the beta.  That won't be too big a sacrafice for apple, I wouldn't think, but currently they don't have any plans of that sort.



> _Originally posted by mashima_
> *Mail does support multiple accounts. You can't switch between them very easily but you can send from them no problem.*



Mail app supports multiple INCOMiNG accounts very easily... but only one outgoing email address.  If you want to switch between mail addresses you have to go into the Preferences.  You don't need more than one SMTP setting, but if there's support for multiple incoming accounts, there should be support for multiple outoing addresses as well.  I don't want to have to switch my preferences every time I want to reply to an email sent to one of me secondary email accounts (which are usually set up for a reason; I don't want to reply to one of those messages with my primary address).


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## Eid (Oct 8, 2000)

> _Originally posted by IslandJordan _
> *My roommate doesn't have a computer, and I want him to be able to send an email from mail.app with HIS name on them, without having to go in and change the preferences, and without having to restart the computer.*



Remember OS X is a multiple user machine/ Create a (MacOS X) account for your flatmate. Load up mail (from within their account) put in their details.


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## J5 (Oct 8, 2000)

> Originally posted by IslandJordan
> My roommate doesn't have a computer, and I want him to be able to send an email from mail.app with HIS name on them, without having to go in and change the preferences, and without having to restart the computer.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Remember OS X is a multiple user machine/ Create a (MacOS X) account for your flatmate. Load up mail (from within their account) put in their details.



Good call E. You can set up accounts for everyone at your school if you want to! 

While we're on the subject of multiple users, can my room-mate have their own Classic app preferences too? It seems like everyone(with an account) has read-write access to the MacOS 9 folder. Is that true?


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## The DJ (Oct 8, 2000)

> _Originally posted by J5 _
> *While we're on the subject of multiple users, can my room-mate have their own Classic app preferences too? It seems like everyone(with an account) has read-write access to the MacOS 9 folder. Is that true? *



The preferences of everything in Classic is stored in the original OS9 preferences folder. So you cannot use OSX multiple users for that now. Maybe you could configure OS9 to use its own Multiple Users, but then you would have to log in seperatly to use OS9.

Classic will be gone i a couple of months, so why bother.  I say X only from now on.   

DJ


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## Eid (Oct 8, 2000)

> _Originally posted by The DJ _
> Classic will be gone i a couple of months, so why bother.  I say X only from now on.
> 
> DJ [/B]



Yeah I am trying to keep all of my work in OS X native. Just about managing to.


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## realcork (Oct 9, 2000)

Classic will be gone i a couple of months, so why bother.  I say X only from now on.   

DJ [/B][/QUOTE]

I love OSX and would dearly love to stick with it for everything but I can't as I have an Epson Stylus 760 printer. If I want to print anything, I have to re-start using OS9 - this is becoming more and more of a pain and consequently, I'm using OSX less and less. A shame but I need to print regularly :-(

Tom.


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## wck (Dec 1, 2000)

where is the multiple desktop support?

i'm a heavy linux user, and one of my favorite things about it is the ability to have mulitple desktops- no more 9 windows opened on 1 desktop.  (i hate clutter.)

i was pretty excited to start running mac os x, but i'm on the verge of giving up on it & going back to linuxppc because of this.  ):

wendy


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## jove (Dec 4, 2000)

Somebody asked about multiple desktops. If Apple doesn't include it - there are several NextStep managers are being ported. All rumors of course.

I agree with the original post  except you CAN place anything on the desktop. It is as functional as it was under Sys 9. X's desktop folder is per user. I do not know if it is still a union with the desktop folders on other drives - that would be nice.

Apple should keep the HD and trash off the desktop. They are easier to access from the dock.


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## biotech (Dec 6, 2000)

> _Originally posted by wck _
> *where is the multiple desktop support?
> 
> i'm a heavy linux user, and one of my favorite things about it is the ability to have mulitple desktops- no more 9 windows opened on 1 desktop.  (i hate clutter.)
> ...




You can have multiple desktops in the current PB, although its real basic and not completely functional.  Just create multiple copies of the Desktop.app and then lunch them and switch between them (put additional desktops in the dock to switch between them with ease)(you will need root for the initial copying).  Its documented more in detail on this forum elsewhere.  It may not be what you had in mind but it shows with a little more tweaking from developers you will get your full blown multipule desktops.


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## zpincus (Dec 6, 2000)

Err, I did this multiple desktop.app trick and it basically ate my filesystem. 
I got all those invalid node zero things on my disk and I had to reinstall os 9. (But not x!)
So caveat emptor.


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## fatih (Dec 6, 2000)

For my understanding you don't make any sense! Please post smarter issues and don't beg for free OS!


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## onan (Dec 7, 2000)

By multiple desktops, he's not referring to having multiple instances of the Desktop.app running; that doesn't get you anything beyond having the two of them stomp on one another's preference files.

The trick to which he (or was it she, actually? Don't remember, and can't see from this page, I'm afraid) is referring is basically emulating muliple monitors in software, and being able to quickly switch back and forth between which of the faux displays you're viewing.

Which basically just means being able to show or hide large groups of windows en masse. I started trying to hack together a few applescripts to perhaps at least be able to do this on a per-application basis, but I can't actually find anything willing to accept events asking it to hide or unhide things. The Desktop doesn't handle that, and individual applications don't handle it; you really need to talk to Aqua itself, but Aqua isn't an application to which you can pass events.

So I failed in my meager efforts, but would be incredibly enthused if someone was to get such a thing working. I also find the lack of this function to be quite crippling.


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## zpincus (Dec 7, 2000)

Agreed, having multiple copies of desktop.app isn't like having multiple desktops. 

But, (if it worked) it solves some very useful problems.
First, say you want to "su" to do something, like changing the contents of  /Applications.
Old way: log out, log in as root, log out, log back in.
This sucks. Apple should put little unlock buttons on anything you can't change as a regular user, because logging out and back in takes way way too long, especially when you factor in a classic startup. Better would be some sort of "su" mechanism -- spawn a new login instance (temporarilay) on top of the old one. 

Enter multiple desktop.apps. You can make a double-clickable terminal script to open a new copy of "desktop.app" for any user (or root). Now, you have a temporary "login" as that user with which you can edit the filesystem, or spawn applications with that user's priviledges (say you want to run a disk utiliy, or something that requires root priviledges, but doesn't have an unlock button. Nicer is a good example.)

This would be really cool, except that they somehow do stomp on eachother. (though not the preferences, if you open them under different users.) 

So, no, this doesn't solve the multiple workspace problem, but it solves another problem that really bugs me.

zach


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## rene (Dec 31, 2000)

My comments are about the way you minimize windows in OS X.
I have mentioned this to Apple, but only now did I realize HOW IMPORTANT it really is. 
In my opinion the FUTURE of the Mac OS (and Apple computers) could depend on it.
(as far as being a pleasant OS and the leader in the graphic field is concerned)
Let\'s say I am working in my favorite graphics or webdesign program...Sometimes I am
working on 5 documents at the same time, copying and pasting from one document to the other. 
If one or more documents (or pallettes for that matter) are in the way, I can just click the titlebalk
and it/they collapse to a neat bar. I can then drag them out of the way, but can easily find again when
I want to work on it again, coz\' they remain on the desktop.(this is such a COOL feature, only the Mac OS has it!)
Then I imagined the same scenario working in Mac OS X... HORROR!!Every document or palette would 
dissappear into the dock BUT...in the dock are many, many icons already (no Apple menu, you see...)
What HORROR it will be to find the right document again between all those tiny icons...
(want to work on \'doc.1\'...first go to the dock, find it,work on it, click it to send it to the dock again,
want to work on \'doc.2\'...first go to the dock, find it, click it... NEED I GO ON?)
I really and strongly believe that the \'old\' way of minimizing SHOULD be maintained in OS X.
There SHOULD be an option to choose between OS 9 style and OS X style minimizing,
becoz when working in graphics or webdesign applications the \'new\' style is HIGHLY impractible!

If you agree with me, please go over to Apple\'s Mac OS X feedback page to voice your opinion
http://www.apple.com/macosx/beta/feedback.html


If we do it NOW we might still be in time!

Okee, thank you!


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## jove (Dec 31, 2000)

I love it when users, with valid UI concerns, determine that the future of the Mac depends on their selected quirk.

The Apple Menu, WindowShade, spring-loaded folders, and tabbed Windows are not going to make or break the Mac - especially since the Mac has survived most of its life without them!

I do agree that WindowShade should be included or a 3rd party patch created (like it was originally). I posted to X\'s feedback on this one a while back.


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## clark (Dec 31, 2000)

Virtspace is coming to macos x, virtspace is virtual desktop application, check out http://www.nyro.com. And I think apple will include a simular app in the final macos x. 

.


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## scruffy (Dec 31, 2000)

Thoughts in no particular order...

Easy su-ing - There is a little app called Pseudo, lets you drag any app\'s icon onto it, and enter the user id and password of the user as whom you want to run the app.  So you can edit config files in ProjectBuilder or (shudder) TextEdit as root, without logging out.  Similarly, I can let my girlfriend check her e-mail without logging out when I\'m in the middle of some work.  It\'s a handy little utility.  It\'s on stepwise, and probably versiontracker too.  
Won\'t let you run multiple instances of an app though, so two copies of Desktop.app might be necessary.  I just use RBrowser, which gives you the same abilities as the Finder, and a similar interface.

Virtual Desktops - I agree, they just ought to be there.  VirtSpace and whatever other third party things are all well and good, but it should just be in the Desktop preferences.  I guess many Mac users might get confused, but then you could keep it to one desktop by default...

Trash in the Dock - it would be fine ny me, if you could get contextual menus on Dock items.  I like to right-click the Trash, and choose \"Empty Trash\" from the menu.  Also, you just ought to be able make the Dock stick to one side of the screen, so that the trash doesn\'t keep blasted moving around all over the place.

Hopefully this is just a function of OS X being in beta, but there are far too many things that can be configured only by editing text files.  How many people are going to realize that there is a firewall in OS X, but it\'s turned off by default (mumble haxor-bait grumble insecure mumfle).  Hopefully, Apple will include a fairly straightforward, basic firewall preference tool, as well as making the default firewall settings something more sensible.


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## strobe (Jan 2, 2001)

I just want to say I find virtual desktops absolutely useless. Actually I find they have negative utility.

It amuses me when eunuchs people grag about how many processes they can run at once when they don\'t have a UI which allows them to do multiple tasks at once with ease. I\'ve always enjoyed MacOS (especially since system 7.1) because I could more easily do several tasks at once. Whether it be dragging urls to open browsers in the background or using several monitors to make a larger desktop which is very useful for keeping items you want quick access to like an addressbook, chat, tcp monitors, telnet sessions, status windows, download managers, etc.

Key to using several applications at once is being able to see them all at once. I can always check the status of a chat window at a glance, or drag text between existing text in a background app. Virtual desktops defeat all of this, even scrolling ones. Why not develop smart window management software which shows and hides groups of windows if you want to create desktop space?


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## jove (Jan 2, 2001)

Hello,

Having developed Windows software and doing tech support for multiple platforms, I can say with confidence, many users do not like the freedom Strobe specified. Some users feel more comfortable in a modal environment i.e. wizards, single user mode, and others.

I know one of the Mac philosophies is \"The user should be in control.\" But many users just do not want the control. How does this tie into multiple desktops?

Multiple desktops enables the creation of modes; an application per desktop space. This kind of reminds me of \"Switcher\", the first multitasking hack on the Mac. I am certainly not saying that multiple desktops should be an integral or even an Apple supported part of Aqua. But it enables users to create an environment they are more comfortable with.

Personally, I wouldn\'t use it 

Jove


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## ahf32587 (Feb 24, 2001)

scenario:
i got two email addresses mapped to one user on a server.  I cant use both b/c mail.app sees the second entry as a duplicate (using the same user).

PAIN.  apple needs to fix this, theres a lot of people who host multiple domains and need access to the same user with diff email addresses eg. webmaster@x.com, webmaster@y.com


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## ahf32587 (Feb 24, 2001)

scenario:
i got two email addresses mapped to one user on a server.  I cant use both b/c mail.app sees the second entry as a duplicate (using the same user).

PAIN.  apple needs to fix this, theres a lot of people who host multiple domains and need access to the same user with diff email addresses eg. webmaster@x.com, webmaster@y.com


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## J5 (Feb 25, 2001)

This may be off topic now, but I just realized the one big thing that Apple forgot in OSX. 

THE UNINSTALLER FOR OSX!!!

If you use a seperate partition, you should be able to get rid of it easily, but if it's on the same (only) partition as your 9, forget it. It's the biggest pain in the arse I've yet to encounter!


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## jove (Feb 25, 2001)

Hmmm,
Uninstaller, that is interesting. Has Apple ever delivered an OS unistaller?

I am redoing my iBook's HD partitions in preperation for March 24th. Luckily I installed the beta on a seperate partition. With how much mucking around I did in the beta - I just assume do a clean install.

Jove


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## strobe (Mar 3, 2001)

Die Desktop, DIE DIE DIE!!!

Desktop is a time waster, mac users spend too much time organizing their windows to avoid covering it up. I've stopped using the Desktop in MacOS 9 and OS X (easier in MacOS 9 if you have ACTION Menus) and my productivity has zoomed!

Free yourself, stop using the desktop!

PS: I wish all download apps would use the global download directory "Internet" preferences. Do you hear me Omni?


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## xaqintosh (Jun 10, 2001)

go to versiontracker.com and download snard


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## sithious (Jun 11, 2001)

> _Originally posted by IslandJordan _
> *So, I guess I don't understand. I need to send mail from  Earthlink AND from 2 people on the BU account. My roommate doesn't have a computer, and I want him to be able to send an email from mail.app with HIS name on them, without having to go in and change the preferences, and without having to restart the computer.
> 
> How would I do that? As far as I know, there is only one Outgoing Mail server you can enter. How do I enter multiple accounts?
> ...



errrr... easy ... you enter multiple accounts in the preferences!
i send mail from five different accounts via mail.app ... no problemo there at all. plus, you can choose whether to collect mail from all these accounts in one mailbox or in several...  




> _Originally posted by LunaMorena _
> *
> Mail app supports multiple INCOMiNG accounts very easily... but only one outgoing email address. If you want to switch between mail addresses you have to go into the Preferences. You don't need more than one SMTP setting, but if there's support for multiple incoming accounts, there should be support for multiple outoing addresses as well. I don't want to have to switch my preferences every time I want to reply to an email sent to one of me secondary email accounts (which are usually set up for a reason; I don't want to reply to one of those messages with my primary address). *




not so. open up mail.app and start up a new mail. look to the right of the mail window you've just opened. there's a pulldown menu from which you can choose which adress to use on an OUTGOING e-mail. 



> _Originally posted by Tom _
> *
> I love OSX and would dearly love to stick with it for everything but I can't as I have an Epson Stylus 760 printer. If I want to print anything, I have to re-start using OS9 - this is becoming more and more of a pain and consequently, I'm using OSX less and less. A shame but I need to print regularly :-(  *



here's a tip: i have the same problem: no printer support for my epson stylus 670... what i do is to save whatever i want to print as pdf in preview.app, then open it in adobe acrobat running under classic and print. it's slightly roundabout, but better than having to reboot ...


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## sithious (Jun 11, 2001)

down with double posts!


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## apb3 (Jun 11, 2001)

Sith:

Jesus, had to scroll all the way down to the end to finally see that someone (you) knew how to use mail.app

I couldn't understand their problems. I too send mail from 4 accounts and receive from 5. I can use the little pull down in the compose window to chose which account each message is sent from. What's the problem?

If you guys having problems need some help, email me and I'll be glad to walk you through it. It's not hard though...


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## sithious (Jun 11, 2001)

apb3:

*lol* ... i find that's often the problem with os x 'problems': people just can't be bothered to learn something new... mail.app is a cool little program, it works just fine for me ... 
but then i'm weird, apparently: i like the dock and i don't even miss the apple menu ...


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## scott (Jun 11, 2001)

Mail.app has as much basic account functionality as any version of Outlook did for me.

It seems that people's problems with OS X relate to their inability to make X match the OS 7 - 9 interface.

I hadn't touched a UNIX box in my life till now and I love it. It is like a whole new world of computing for me, and it makes me realize how boring the Mac OS classic can be once you know it.


Scott


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## xaqintosh (Jun 11, 2001)

> _Originally posted by sithious _
> *apb3:
> but then i'm weird, apparently: i like the dock and i don't even miss the apple menu ...  *



me too


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## sithious (Jun 11, 2001)

xaqintosh, i see from your signature you've got the same setup my dad has ...   i've been wondering whether it's worth installing x on his imac, so what would you say ? how happy are you with the performance on yours? is 128 mb enough? i'd be glad to hear your opinion...


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