# minimizing windows in Mac OS X



## rene (Dec 31, 2000)

My comments are about the way you minimize windows in OS X.
I have mentioned this to Apple, but only now did I realize HOW IMPORTANT it really is. 
In my opinion the FUTURE of the Mac OS (and Apple computers) could depend on it.
(as far as being a pleasant OS and the leader in the graphic field is concerned)
Let\\\'s say I am working in my favorite graphics or webdesign program...Sometimes I am
working on 5 documents at the same time, copying and pasting from one document to the other. 
If one or more documents (or pallettes for that matter) are in the way, I can just click the titlebalk
and it/they collapse to a neat bar. I can then drag them out of the way, but can easily find again when
I want to work on it again, coz\\\' they remain on the desktop.(this is such a COOL feature, only the Mac OS has it!)
Then I imagined the same scenario working in Mac OS X... HORROR!!Every document or palette would 
dissappear into the dock BUT...in the dock are many, many icons already (no Apple menu, you see...)
What HORROR it will be to find the right document again between all those tiny icons...
(want to work on \\\'doc.1\\\'...first go to the dock, find it,work on it, click it to send it to the dock again,
want to work on \\\'doc.2\\\'...first go to the dock, find it, click it... NEED I GO ON?)
I really and strongly believe that the \\\'old\\\' way of minimizing SHOULD be maintained in OS X.
There SHOULD be an option to choose between OS 9 style and OS X style minimizing,
becoz when working in graphics or webdesign applications the \\\'new\\\' style is HIGHLY impractible!

If you agree with me, please go over to Apple\\\'s Mac OS X feedback page to voice your opinion
http://www.apple.com/macosx/beta/feedback.html

If we do it NOW we might still be in time!



Okee, thank you!


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## strobe (Jan 2, 2001)

Ever use Window Maker? When you double-click the title bar it\'ll shade, but when you hit the minimize button it will be put away into the dock.

The only way it could be more ideal is if the itile bars were only as long as the title, which makes Window Shade work a LOT better.


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## Tigger (Jan 2, 2001)

I personally think that the TitleBar thing in OS 9- is kinda impractical.
Titlebars everywhere, now where is my \\\"Doc.15\\\"?
In OS X, everything is in one place. Pehaps not the best way to solve this, the way the doc does (Thousands of little Icons). But I haven´t seen anywhere a solution that can really deal with a LOT of windows.

But I agree that everyone should have the choice to have it the way one wants to.
This Apple thinking \\\"We know what everyone wants and the way we do it is right and everyone who disagrees should go to hell\\\" is just crap.

Oh yeah: What has become of this MacOSX feature I heard of, where you only have one Window, and if you maximize another one, this goes into the dock?
Hm, I guess Apple thought it would not be so good, and left it to die...
Now, again, where is my OPTION, Apple? I would have loved to try working with this, to see if I like it...
But I should not complain, Apple always knows better than stupid me...


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## rene (Jan 2, 2001)

> _Originally posted by strobe _
> *Ever use Window Maker? When you double-click the title bar it\\\\\\\'ll shade, but when you hit the minimize button it will be put away into the dock.
> 
> The only way it could be more ideal is if the itile bars were only as long as the title, which makes Window Shade work a LOT better. *



hey, Strobe
Do you mean Windowblinds?
Anyway, I think you are reffering to an application for Windows.
Wich won\\\'t do a lot in OS X, to my knowledge
IF you are taking about an app for OS X, please post where to get it

Peace!
rene


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## strobe (Jan 4, 2001)

rene -- Window Maker is a popular window manager for X11 (UNIX display server). I only mention it because the behavior is ideal.

Tigger -- I don\'t get clutter when I use a theme which has a short title bar like the NeuTech theme. It\'s the difference between Window Shade being annoying and being genuinely useful.


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## iRock (Jan 9, 2001)

good news...it appears as if the window shade functionality has been brought to os x like the apple menu   check out my thread under general discussion for more info


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## endian (Jan 9, 2001)

where? i didnt see it.. that flat thing on the right of the titlebar is to hide the finder's toolbars


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## iRock (Jan 9, 2001)

yup, my bad, i jumped to some conclusions a little too quickly, although zpincus made some good points about the button's odd behavior in the general discussion


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## rene (Jan 10, 2001)

hi folks
we can still influence this, I believe (2 months)
Just go to the feedback and ask...
"can we please have windowshade, Mr Apple?'
It might work 
Tell all of your friends as well (this treadh aint to big...)

Or does anyone know someone who could make a 'plugin'
for x, to handle this?

By the way.. I took the beta of my computer... after what I saw
in the Mac OS X theater it is like a childs toy with those 5 buttons
and that non responsive dock.
You people still enjoying it?

greetins, rene


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## VGZ (Jan 11, 2001)

feel free to copy this and post/add your own suggestions.

I would like the windoshade back.  It would be fairly easy to implement a feature where double-clicking the titlebar would activate windowshade while the minimize button would minimize the window to the dock.  Most of the window managers in Linux operate that way.  It is far quicker to windowshade something when you need to read something behind it than it is to minimize it to the dock.

Also I like the new Dock menu system.  Just make sure that it can be activated instantly by control-clicking.  You could also put the path menu in the titlebar for those that know about it, just make sure it is control-click instead of command-clicking.

If enough people request this it should be implemented.


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## chrisss (Jan 11, 2001)

I find using window shade in situations where you have over five or so "shaded" windows in OS9 counter-productive, especially if each window is called "Untitled 1", "Untitled 2" etc... so I started using OmegaWindow which is an extension allowing you to use a keyboard shortcut like ctrl + tab to tab through all windows open in the foremost app. When you press it, up pops a little window with a list of all the open windows for that app, then you just tab down to the one you want. Simple and elegant.
This way, I can navigate through the whole of my open apps and windows with a few keystrokes.

I think I'm right in saying you can do that in Windows already but I'm not sure.

Anyway, if everyone's going to ask for that really neat solution where you dblclick the window bar to shade and hit the button to minimise, then can we ask for a kbd shortcut too?

Thanx -

Chrisss


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## strobe (Jan 12, 2001)

In the new OS X build you can select a window using the Dock so I don't think hotkeys would be terribly useful. Perhaps while command-tabbing you could use arrows to select a popup menu item...although I wouldn't like it.


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## chrisss (Jan 12, 2001)

> In the new OS X build you can select a window using the Dock so I don't think hotkeys would be terribly useful. Perhaps while command-tabbing you could use arrows to select a popup menu item...although I wouldn't like it.



I'm interested to hear more on anyone's opinions of hotkeys.
I should probably explain... I'm a graphic designer and spend most of the day switching between many applications - all with live documents in them. Call me lazy, but the less often I have to move my mouse across the whole of my 21inch screen, the better!
I'm one of those people who trick out the whole system with extra extensions and control panels to achieve one simple aim - to SAVE TIME. I can't live without most of them - I've tried. I personally find hotkeys far more efficient (in certain circumstances) than using the mouse to manouvre around.

I hate to say it, but in my opinion, Windoze has one major advantage in terms of usability and that is that there is a way of navigating the whole system by simply using keys. You could argue that Mac mice never crash so that's not a problem, but it is simply FASTER to do some things with the keys rather than moving the mouse. It's a power-user thing I guess. What does everyone else think?

The reason I raise this is that I'm concerned that a lot of my beloved shareware is going to be seriously underpowered after being recoded for X... I'm concerned that I haven't heard an awful lot of comment from the Mac-design community yet.


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## DJ_XTC (Jan 12, 2001)

I have found that even in the Public Beta, Two Button mice are supported.  I have a feeling that Apple has already set up the dock to right click for menus.  If any of the rumors are true(remeber I said "IF") Apple will release a two button optical mouse when OSX ships with new systems.

If you have the latest Developers Build and a two button mouse, please try this and let me know if it works.

(edited for spelling)

DJ XTC


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## rene (Jan 12, 2001)

he!
Please if you want to talk about powerkeys and so
start a thread about the use of powerkeys. (....)
This thread is(was) about windowshade.

THANK YOU! 
rene


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## rene (Jan 12, 2001)

and please
do the same for two buttonmouse...
you might call the topic : twobutton mouse, friend or foe?
but the topic here is windowshade and the lack there off, boys.

peace!


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## chrisss (Jan 13, 2001)

I'm sorry! I got a bit carried away there didn't I? -
one hotkeys forum coming right up...

But returning to windowshading: I notice a small problem with windowshading in aqua, although in any other apps, windowshade would work fine...
At present, every finder window is titled "finder" and the actual name of the current folder is placed below on a pop-up menu. When you window-shade that window, should it display the folder name on the bar or become "Finder: NameOfFolder" or simply remain "Finder"?
Obviously, the latter option is unuseable - you can't tell which window is which any more. The first removes the application name "finder" from the window - would this be a problem I wonder? Or would you just shade up to the two bars - the Title bar as well as the section containing the pop-up? I prefer the name-based solution as OS9 does it myself.


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## VGZ (Jan 13, 2001)

If you check out the new finder that will be in the final version of OS Xyou will notice that the titlebar now contains the folder name as it should.  There should be no problem windowshading now.


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## rene (Jan 14, 2001)

mmmm...
some valid point you have there, chrisss
I was going to make a long reply but behold
VGZ had an even better point 
Do you guys know anyone who could make
the 'old' way work in the next generation OS?
And where is the hotpower-key topic?

thanx, rene


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## rene (Jan 14, 2001)

but..
if finderwindows do not shade is not
such a problem, we will be living in one window soon enough i think.
It is documents (any kind) that have my concern.
29 documents in the dock dseems a whole lot.

cheers, rene


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## istewart (Jan 14, 2001)

I rather like the way the Window menu in OS 9.1 is implemented. It shows the titles of all open windows and those that are windowshaded have a little dash next to their title. The same could probably be implemented in OS X with ease.


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## chrisss (Jan 14, 2001)

The OS9.1 implementation is certainly an improvement - the windows menu has been a feature of Internet Explorer, Photoshop and Illustrator for a while now and is invaluable.
As for Rene's comment, I agree: I think for most work, we will be living in one Finder window - barring file or alias drag-copying. But the single window finder will not solve another major concern which is that doc windows from any app can become interleaved with windows from other apps and the finder... a behaviour you see on the PC. I can foresee this becoming extremely confusing, irrespective of whether you can windowshade or minimise to the dock. What might help is a "doc dock" - a totally seperate dock for documents only. It's not uncommon to have over twenty windows open at once and the dock is not enough in such cases. Do we really have to run a seperate window manager app when such functionality could easily be built into the OS? 

Frankly, I would like to hear any suggestions why windows do interleave. If I'm running Photoshop, I generally want to keep all the Pshop windows together. They could potentially get jumbled up with all the other windows. I admit that I haven't used the beta enough in a real-world context to discover if the advantages outweigh the confusion... Anyone think different? Either way, some method of quickly navigating open windows is needed and the dock, as it stands, is not enough - if you can't visually identify the document, you are forced to "scrub" over all the docs until the name of the one you want appears. A solution more akin to the Photoshop Layers pallette would be more appropriate - name AND iconic representation... 

On reflection, we may find that windowshade becomes less important - let me explain. We conventionally use WS to "peep" behind an open window. The alternative - dragging the window - is longwinded. First, click on title bar... start to drag (outline of window moves with mouse)... release mouse... window skips to new position... finally revealing window beneath. Now that windows move in realtime, it more closely resembles the action of sliding a piece of paper out of the way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have the standard window shade action though!


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## strobe (Jan 15, 2001)

When working between two documents WindowShade is var better than minimizing. You just double click (which with my 4-button mouse is one click) the title bar and double click it again when you're finished looking. 

WindowShade has become less useful since I've stopped using the Desktop (see Tips/Tricks thread on the subject) however the same is true for minimizing. The question is WindowShade vs minimizing. I say WindowShade with title bars only as long as the title is better than minimizing unless you're putting a window away for a long period of time. Now how often is that? Most of my Window Shading is short term, typically not moving the mouse after doing it.


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## rene (Jan 15, 2001)

he guys,
Thanx for all the input!
but so it is fair to say we would like to see some kind of windowshade...
did you guys report this?
(sorry for this short reply, i;ve got a train to catch)

bye bye, Rene


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## chrisss (Jan 16, 2001)

Yesterday, I posted a request for the option discussed during the early stages of the forum - that when you click on the minimise button, the window docks but when you double-click the title bar the window simply shades.

Can I add that having used the beta a bit more, I realise that the "Window" menu with its list of open windows is a passable alternative to window shade as it lets you navigate to any window quite quickly - probably faster than windowshade in some circumstances. (Needless to say, if this function also had a hotkey, it would make a useable alternative. But that's for a different forum)


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## tie (Jan 16, 2001)

I very much like more powerful window-management functionality.  For example, in IE, command-~ switches between windows (and you can add a shift to go in reverse).  OS X nicely adds a command-key for Hide others.  What about commands to hide/show windows within an application?


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## endian (Jan 16, 2001)

OSX is feature frozen - steve said as much in the keynote. All that's going on right now is optimization and finishing of stuff that wasn't done in the beta (airport, printing, Carbon) You might see these things, but not for 1.0


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## chrisss (Jan 17, 2001)

If OS X is "feature-frozen", does that mean that Apple aren't taking any more feedback?
Or should we continue to post feedback to Apple with a view to influencing further releases? I mean, I've never posted feedback to Apple before but now I've got a taste for it, I'll probably do it every time I think of an improvement they could make.
I'm guessing that version 1 will still be buggy in parts and they'll at least want bug-reporting to come their way. And I doubt for a second that the UI is frozen. Windowshade itself was only introduced after System 7 (I think). So should we just "sit back and chill" as someone said in another forum?


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## rene (Jan 17, 2001)

>So should we just "sit back and chill" as someone said in another forum?

nope!!!
One of the next things we should suggest on the feedbackpage
is: to keep it open! This could be such a good thing..direct feedback from
diehard customers 
And about feature frozen...I think they can always squeeze somethin in.
But we shall see in a short time 
I can not wait, to be honest.

bye all.
rene


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