# Mac OSX simulation on PC?



## PCTech (Jul 9, 2006)

Hi.  I'm a moderator in another forum where most of the users have PC's but occassionally I get asked a question about Macs.

Unfortunately I don't have any experience with them, but as I'm training as a DST I'm very interested in learning more about them, but I don't want to go to the expense of buying one since I already have 4 PCs and certainly don't have room for a machine I'd probably rarely use. Hence, does anyone know of a Mac simulation program that will run on a PC? And if so where can I get it?


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## Qion (Jul 9, 2006)

Most people do this with VMware or PearPC. AFAIK, there's no marketed product specifically for emulating a Mac on a PC. And although we obviously don't condone it here, it's feasible to install OS X Tiger on a PC. Google is your friend on things like this.

Oh, and if you're going to get anywhere close to running OS X on a PC, you'll need your own copy of OS X.


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## camgangrel21 (Jul 9, 2006)

There are emulators that will do that just like VPC but it's meant to emulate the mac hardware so you can run OS X. Do a google search for one. then get your hands on a copy of OS X. One thing as of 10.4 the EULA of OS X says doing this is "Illegal". So that is all I will say because I'm alot nicer then the others here are about this kind of things. So I hope that helps you out. Just for your FYI why I will talk to you about this is because I moved over to the Mac right about the same time 10.4 was coming out. If I had know about these tools I would moved over sooner. So with that I will say good bye and think Mac.
And to those of you that will yell at me for talking about this BITE ME!! This is a free county after all. It's not like I told him how to do it or where to goto i.e. Like telling him the main pages of the software. I told him to look it up on google because it's out there just got to know what to put in is all. I'm just doing my part to help move over more people to OS X.
Bye for now,
Michael


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## PCTech (Jul 9, 2006)

Actually I'm a "she"... LOL.  and just to destroy the stereotyping further, I'm 50. I'm undergoing a career change due to a chronic illness.

Thanks for the info, though I can't say I understand why if you have a legally owned copy of OSX it should be illegal to run one via an emulator on a pc, but I will take the time to go research it.  I live in the UK and Macs aren't very popular here.  In fact I've never met anyone who's ever owned one, or if they did they kept very quiet about it.


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## Qion (Jul 9, 2006)

It's not illegal if you actually bought a copy, I think. Apple said they would do nothing to prevent people from booting OS X on PC's a long time ago.


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## PCTech (Jul 9, 2006)

Well that's OK then.  I only use software that I have licences for, I certainly don't plan on getting into trouble over illegal stuff... it's the hardware I'm not planning to buy, I've got a number of very good manuals I can study for now. Not that I was always so good, but us techs need to set a good example, so I stopped using "borrowed" software a long time ago and all my OS's are fully legit.  Although I'm a great advocate of open source freeware and have some very interesting apps floating about on my pcs.


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## camgangrel21 (Jul 10, 2006)

This is right off a OS X 10.4 Disk.
Now take a Look at what is said in parts 2 and 3. It' the parts in red, Apple spells out that to run OS X on any other computer other then and Apple "Computer" is highly illegal. Why do you think Apple sued the site that was posting cracks so that the Intel rev of OS X would work on most Intel P4 or higher boxes or most new AMD boxes?
Sorry about calling you a guy in my post i don't look at other people's profiles. i look at it as wrong to do that with someone telling me to.
my bad. I hope this helps you out some. other wise I would say pick up a mac mini and use boot-camp on it so that you can use Windows and OS X on a computer that it is legal to do so from. The nice part of a mini is that any old PC keyboard USB and USB mouse and screen will work with the mac right out of the box.
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EA0260
---
Michael


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## fryke (Jul 10, 2006)

The real problem is you can't _have_ a legal copy of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) for intel Macs unless you've bought an intel Mac. That OS does not exist in a retail version so far.
If you're going to try PearPC, which slowly emulates a PowerPC Mac, you won't get a real feeling for how a Mac really is and feels. So if you truly intend to get some experience with Mac OS X, there isn't really a way around buying a fairly new Mac, which isn't too expensive. I'm sure you'll find an almost-new iBook G4 or some form of Mac mini around the UK for not that much money. If you get, say, a MacBook, you can even retire one of your old PCs, because the MacBook can run Windows XP natively as well.


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## PCTech (Jul 10, 2006)

Heh, thanks for the information... it looks like Apple are even more of a pain in the butt than MS... if that's possible.  Personally my OS of choice is LInux, not MS, but that won't get me far as a DST here so I'm forced to get certified for MS.

Looks like I'll have to put this on hold as cheap is not an adjective I'd use for anything Mac based here.


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## nixgeek (Jul 10, 2006)

> Looks like I'll have to put this on hold as cheap is not an adjective I'd use for anything Mac based here.



A common misconception held over from the early 90s by most PC users. 

I don't know...the Mac mini seems quite affordable is you're looking to get into OS X.  It's pretty comparable to similary spec-ed PCs out there.  Plus, it brings a bunch of useful software like iLife and others that most of the PCs in that price range don't have.  Heck, with FOUR PCs you COULD sell one of them for a Mac.  That would leave you three PCs for you to use....wouldn't that be enough?

Heck, you could even go with one of the latest PowerPC models before the Intel switch.  Those should be even cheaper and should also run OS X quite well.

Or you could do what I did with an old 600 MHz Snow iMac G3 and install Ubuntu Dapper on it.  Runs quite nicely on that old Mac.


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## PCTech (Jul 14, 2006)

Everything's expensive when you're on disability my dear.  

Second hand PCs here can be bought for peanuts... certainly one's as old as mine. My newest desktop is an Abit KV8 with an AMD Barton 2500+ which is 3 years old and dual Booted with 2KPro/Mandrake 10.1.  My 2nd desktop has an Abit KT7a rev1.3 mobo with a 1GHz AMD Thunderbird OC'd to 1.33GHz(1.775volts) @ 38C idle. Triple booted with 2KPro/98/Ubuntu Dapper.  My 3rd Desktop is Pentium III 900 coppermine.  I do have 2 older ones, but they're not running atm.  At some point I may try dualbooting my Aser laptop with one of the Linux OS's.

My disposable income is focused on getting me the qualifications I need to be able to get the job I want as a tech when I'm pronounced fit enough to do so. Anything I do with Macs is purely as a sideline and out of my own curiosity and wish to learn as much as I can about computers in general.

Yes it would be nice to have a 64bit system but a dual processor server would actually be more beneficial to my ongoing knowledge and career development.  Any fool can build and troubleshoot a PC, it's learning to ins and outs of the operating systems that I'm focused on, or how can I offer full support?


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## nixgeek (Jul 14, 2006)

Out of curiousity, what is the total cost on each of those first two systems (Barton and T-Bird) including all the internal components?  I'm not trying to knock you or anything....I know what it's like to be on a tight budget and use older computers to learn stuff, especially operating systems.  I have a family with two kids (soon to be three) and the iMac I just purchased last year was because of a refinance.  Otherwise I would have saved up and bought a used Power Mac which would have costed me about as much as a gradually self-built PC upgrade (mobo, CPU, RAM at bare minimum).  Before that, I had a Motorola StarMax that I got for free as well as an old Quadra 650.  And the PCs I have at home were self-built as well.  While I have the Cely D and the Athlon XP 2400+, I didn't start out with those either.  I originally had a Pentium II 450 before the Athlon which I bought about 3 years ago.  As for the income, that's all going to the family, especially the upcoming baby due in February (which was a surprise to both of us, but such is life ).  My wife and I both work so that we can live comfortably, meaning we can buy food and clothing and other needs without worrying about the utilities and mortgage being paid.  In other words, we don't live beyond our means.

Also considering that I work for the school district managing two elementary schools and do a LOT of troubleshooting, I need to know how most operating systems, especially Windows and Mac OS (both Classic and X) function so that I can troubleshoot them without delay.  This is why I'm also testing out Vista since our district will eventually move to that.  I know exactly where you're coming from in terms of finances and work experience.

Again, if you REALLY want to learn how to use Mac OS X, the best and legal way is to find a used Mac (Power Macs of all kinds from the blue and white G3, iMac, and up are very affordable now) and install OS X on it.  Even if you use an older version like 10.3, or even 10.2, you can gain some experience.  While 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4 might have some differences, the core function is basically the same.  It's just a matter of finding one at the right price:

See here for some deals that Low End Mac has available.  I saw a mention for a 333 MHz iMc for 50 bucks + shipping from MegaMacs.  _(EDIT: Or this page for some good prices in the UK, also on the Low End Mac site.)_ Is that really all too expensive to just test around OS X?


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## PCTech (Jul 14, 2006)

Actually I've found a site and was having a look at specs and prices.  They're not as bad as I expected, but less than £300 would be preferable.  Some advice on which ones I should consider and what they are capapble of running would be helpful.  I can probably afford one for Christmas... since no-one else ever buys me presents these day... (all go ahhh and send me some cash.. lol).

http://www.2ndchancepc.co.uk/maccpus.html

As for costs:

The TBird 1GHz originally cost me £766.60 to build (as of 10/7/01) - note I never use generic anything in my own PCs... I build them myself because I want to choose what I put in them, and I use componants from some of the best manufacturers on the market.  A similar spec PC at the time would have cost me in the region of £1500 to buy.

As for the Barton, it started life as an upgrade for the TBird with a new motherboard, cpu (2200+) and Ram(2100) plus videocard, which then upgraded to a modified case... about 6 months later I upgraded to a Thermaltake v1000 Xazer III full tower with hardcano 9 and 7 silent fans... as you can guess an OCer's case with a price to match.  It's a big heavy beasty but I still love it. Including the silent power supply it cost about £160.  A couple of months later the mobo imploded, so I upgraded to the KV8, Barton and 333 Ram with a view to OCing it.  It's had various hdds, cd-rws, dvd-rws, video cards. etc in and out over the years... how much did it all cost me?  I have absolutely no idea... cost simply wasn't a factor at the time.


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## nixgeek (Jul 14, 2006)

My second link (which was in the quotes) is from that same site. 

I'd say go for this one or this one.  Of the two, I recommend the former but that latter is good if you prefer the price.   Either will take PC-100 RAM so if you have at home to spare then you won't have to spend the money on extra RAM.  128 MB is too little for OS X.  256 at the very least if your running 10.3 (just to test it out) and 512 MB for 10.4.


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## PCTech (Jul 14, 2006)

I just phoned up the merchant and the guy there recommened the mac mini @ £399 inc of vat as I would still have to buy the OS @ £79 for the older mac and upgrade the ram to 512mbs(£65) as I don't have any PC-100, plus it wouldn't have wifi or bluetooth capabilities. And then there's the £30 vat(tax) to add, which would make the G4 in total £363.  It seems silly to quibble over £30-40, when I can get a brand new one so cheap with OSX, wi-fi and bluetooth already installed.  

As it's so small I can install it on this screen and would only need to get a usb keyboard and mouse... actually I'd probably go for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.  So I think I will go for that, I'll just have to sell a PC and some other bits I have stored to help finance it.  

If nothing else I'll be able to use for my graphics.  I have actually been toying with the idea of getting a mini PC, but a mini mac will do instead.  I've had a look over on Apple's site and I actually like it! The fact that it just likes like a little silver box sitting on the table really tickles me. Damn, you've converted me.  I can't believe I'm actually gonna go an buy myself a Mac!... LOL!


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## Natobasso (Jul 14, 2006)

You can make your pc look like a mac using this software:
http://www.flyakiteosx.com/

Apple has a Bootcamp page describing how to run Windows XP on an Intel Mac:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/


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## CharlieJ (Jul 14, 2006)

Ive seen OSX on a Dell Laptop, you need the sound graphics card and the processor to be a specific type of intel I have no idea what it is (I dont use a PC [Thank GOD!])

Whoops I got abit mixed up


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## nixgeek (Jul 14, 2006)

PCTech said:


> I just phoned up the merchant and the guy there recommened the mac mini @ £399 inc of vat as I would still have to buy the OS @ £79 for the older mac and upgrade the ram to 512mbs(£65) as I don't have any PC-100, plus it wouldn't have wifi or bluetooth capabilities. And then there's the £30 vat(tax) to add, which would make the G4 in total £363.  It seems silly to quibble over £30-40, when I can get a brand new one so cheap with OSX, wi-fi and bluetooth already installed.
> 
> As it's so small I can install it on this screen and would only need to get a usb keyboard and mouse... actually I'd probably go for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse.  So I think I will go for that, I'll just have to sell a PC and some other bits I have stored to help finance it.
> 
> If nothing else I'll be able to use for my graphics.  I have actually been toying with the idea of getting a mini PC, but a mini mac will do instead.  I've had a look over on Apple's site and I actually like it! The fact that it just likes like a little silver box sitting on the table really tickles me. Damn, you've converted me.  I can't believe I'm actually gonna go an buy myself a Mac!... LOL!



Congratulations are in order, then!   Which Mac mini are you buying...the Intel one?


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## nixgeek (Jul 14, 2006)

CJ MAC OSX IPOD said:


> Ive seen OSX on a Dell Laptop, you need the sound graphics card and the processor to be a specific type of intel I have no idea what it is (I dont use a PC [Thank GOD!])
> 
> Whoops I got abit mixed up



You forgot one more thing: not caring that it's illegal to do so, much less talk about installing OS X on Windows PCs on the forum ("read the board rules" as fryke would say).


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## PCTech (Jul 14, 2006)

Yes, it will be the intel solo. I've been researching KVM switches.  I use a Linksys ProConnect® Integrated KVM 2-Port PS/2 Switch at the moment, but I'll have to get a Omniview Soho Series 4-Port KVM Switch, PS/2 & USB with Audio plus 2 PS/2 cables and a USB cable so I can use them all on my existing screen, keyboard and mouse. So it'll cost me £496 in total.  But I've been moaning about having to plug my second PC into the LCD screen speakers for ages so it'll solve that problem, and I should be able to do that if I sell the other stuff... bout time I had a clearout anyway... 

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...mniview...Switches/DesktopSeries/SohoSeries/#

The mac will sit on my desk under my linksys router. As you can see, I like my office tidy. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/lawli56/office.jpg


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## nixgeek (Jul 14, 2006)

Nice!  Here are some shots of my (not-so-neat) office. 

Shot 1







Shot 2


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## PCTech (Jul 14, 2006)

I presume you're into music production.  

You can't actully see it, but that's a very big desk on the right which I use as my workbench. Plus the backdoor is located just beyond the left edge of the picture, which is why I chose this room as my office because it can be closed off from the rest of the appartment/flat so it will be very convenient if I decide to start my own business later on.  There's also a lot of cupboards and storage space behind me and to the right.

I set up the workstation like that because I need to keep my feet raised when I'm sitting.  I did actually want an airdesk, but they don't sell them here.  And eventually, when I can afford it I plan to get a Stressless recliner with a laptop tray for my keyboard.  In the meantime I'm using a small table when I have a lot of typing to do.

http://www.airdesks.com/computer_desk.asp

http://www.wharfside.co.uk/stresslessrecliner/admiral.html

My disability and ongoing health condition mean I have to adapt things to my needs.  I'd like one for my lounge as well. But I'll probably have to wait until I'm fit enough to go and get a suitable job.


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## nixgeek (Jul 15, 2006)

Well, the music is something I do on my own as a hobby at the moment....it's my other love.   I would love to take it beyond that, though, especially considering the way things are in the IT realm.  Not that I'm worried about my job within the school system, but the future just keeps looking bleak from what I'm hearing on IT podcasts and websites.

I hadn't noticed the ottoman-like item in front of the chair....nice! 

As for the rest of my office, you don't want to see it.  It's basically the room that everything that doesn't have a place goes into.  Thankfully, it's only on one side of the office....for now.


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## Satcomer (Jul 15, 2006)

Nixgeek it looks like you are a southpaw.


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## Qion (Jul 15, 2006)

Hey, Nixgeek, I just now noticed that you're left handed! That would be nice for me and my erratic cord progressions... haha.

Edit: And I also just noticed that I'm speaking redundantly in the last post... lovely...


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## PCTech (Jul 16, 2006)

nixgeek said:


> I hadn't noticed the ottoman-like item in front of the chair....nice!



It's a beanbag cube... comfortable to put my feet up on and light enough to kick out of the way when necessary.

I've also got the patio table, 2 folding chairs and a garden parasol over by the door... I don't like leaving them out in my postage stamp of a garden and my shed is too small to keep them in. LOL 

I've been looking at graphics programs for macs... not many for intel based yet but i would think by christmas they'll have sorted that one... and how to run windows programs.  It seems Wine will can also be used on mac. 

It would be nice to combine the graphics with my poetry.


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## nixgeek (Jul 16, 2006)

Actually, I'm a righty (sorry to let everyone down ).  But I've taught myself to use the mouse left handed.  Reason being is that when I lived with my parents and we bought our first Mac (Performa 6220CD), I had an L-desk that fit in a corner like that in the picture (imagine the desk in the picture with a perpendicular piece sticking from the corner against the wall).  Unfortunately, I had to put the Kawai (the smaller synth) on the end of the old desk that would be against the wall with the window since the other end had a hutch.  This forced me to use the mouse in this manner.  Fortunately, it wasn't so bad since the Mac had the one button mouse.  After so many years of using it like that, I got quite adept at using the mouse left-handed and I just stuck with it.

The only problem with this setup was when I kept the desk after moving out in 1998 but only had a PC to use.  This meant using a two mouse button that wasn't universal.  And as you can imagine, not many mouses back then were universal, except for Logitech (although they always had the button with the indent on the right side).  I guess this is why I still prefer Logitech mouses to any other.  I loved the Microsoft mouses, but they weren't universal either until maybe a year after I moved out.  I could be wrong of course. 

I also got used to playing FPS games this way, since I was more adept at using the arrow keys on the keyboard with my right hand and maneuvering the mouse with my left hand.  I have a hard time watching people doing it the other way around. 

So I guess you can call me an ambidextrous mouser.


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## Qion (Jul 16, 2006)

That doesn't surprise me at all coming from a pianist; I can do most tasks with both hands, but maybe that's coming from martial arts and not left-handed mousing .


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## ora (Jul 16, 2006)

PCtech: love the smeg head sticker on the wall .


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## FirstSkyler1 (Dec 17, 2011)

_*Hey guys, we're WAY off topic now.*_


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## DeltaMac (Dec 17, 2011)

The original question seems adequately answered, and the thread moved to 'simpler' conversation, eh? and it was 5 years ago, too.... time marches on, doesn't it?

Is there some question that we can help you with?


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## MarcUK (Feb 6, 2012)

i know you dont fancy the expense of buying a Mac, but to be fair, i would just buy one of the early Intel Macs - or a good old example of the PPC based ones, one that will run Leopard would be reasonably applicable, there are plenty about, (early OS X) experience can be had on some quite cheaply really, and are quite useable still today.


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## Giaguara (Feb 6, 2012)

Marc, check the dates of some of the posts (and not just in this thread). The post started in 2006. Nowadays anyone wondering the same topic would make their choices of hardware with a bit newer models (unless going with the collector/retro old Macs). Anyway, welcome on the boards


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