# No Leopard until October



## Satcomer (Apr 12, 2007)

Apple delays Leopard until October because of iPhone


----------



## Terminator182 (Apr 12, 2007)

Wow. Not too happy about that, especially since I was getting a new iMac this June with Leopard. Hopefully this move doesn't allow any unfortunate consequences to follow. Six more months wait. Dang.


----------



## ScottW (Apr 12, 2007)

Oh no! Apple is taking on so many projects, it is starting to become Microsoftish. Ugh, I get shivers up my spine.


----------



## fryke (Apr 12, 2007)

Me too. :/ Although I agree they should take their time to finish it. I just hope it won't erase firewire harddrives when it's released (as did Panther).


----------



## Mikuro (Apr 12, 2007)

.....

Well that's a bummer. I just hope Leopard doesn't become the next Longhorn. 2.5 years is already an eon in Mac time.

The fact that Apple diverted development resources away from OS X brings back that sneaky feeling that the Mac OS is falling by the wayside. Come to think of it, this should've been on my list of signs of doom back in January.


----------



## bbloke (Apr 12, 2007)

Hmm, a bit of a shame, although I too would rather they took their time and had a polished product at the end of it.  I'm not keen on the increasing trend for the public being the ones to serve as quality assurance for software!  

It also bothers me a bit that resources have been diverted away from the Mac and to the iPhone.  It raises old issues/fears about Apple's priorities, whether or not there is actually much to worry about.

From Satcomer's link:


> ...As a result, Apple wont release Leopard at its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) in June, as it had first planned.
> 
> *While Leopards features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us.* We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October...


Does this mean there are still quite a few problems with Leopard, and perhaps development did not go as well as planned?  Or perhaps, taking it at face value, resources were just diverted during Leopard's development, delaying it?


----------



## ScottW (Apr 12, 2007)

Well, it is probably true, they diverted resource for the iPhone. That means that Apple decided it was better the delay Mac OS X, than to delay the iPhone. That is a sign that Apple is gambling that the iPhone will be more profitable than releasing OS X 10.5.


----------



## salival (Apr 12, 2007)

I rather they take their time and do it right. Tiger works great and Adobe is about to release CS3 for intel Macs, so things are good.


sal


----------



## Lt Major Burns (Apr 12, 2007)

yeah, as it stands, there's not much in Leopard that anyone needs right now.  the [very] few people that have 10gb RAM will benefit, but that's hardly life threatening.  most, if not all, of the other 'features' are already catered for by third party apps, albeit not at a system level.


----------



## MisterMe (Apr 12, 2007)

ScottW said:


> Well, it is probably true, they diverted resource for the iPhone. That means that Apple decided it was better the delay Mac OS X, than to delay the iPhone. That is a sign that Apple is gambling that the iPhone will be more profitable than releasing OS X 10.5.


Since the iPhone is based on MacOS X 10.5, Apple is likely simply ensuring that the OSes running its phones and personal computers are at parity.


----------



## icemanjc (Apr 12, 2007)

ScottW said:


> Oh no! Apple is taking on so many projects, it is starting to become Microsoftish. Ugh, I get shivers up my spine.



Thats exactly what I said when I first heard about it.


----------



## Thank The Cheese (Apr 12, 2007)

salival said:


> I rather they take their time and do it right. Tiger works great and Adobe is about to release CS3 for intel Macs, so things are good.



I do agree, but I think Mikuro makes a good point; while we may be willing to wait, the bigger issue is Apple Inc dropping "computer" not only from their name, but their consciousness. 

I"m hoping at the very least we get to see those damn "top secret" features at WWDC. I don't mind waiting, so long as I know what I'm waiting for.


----------



## symphonix (Apr 12, 2007)

I also am not too fussed by waiting - I'd prefer to see Apple get it right, and the current version of Mac OS X could hardly be called obsolete or dated. It may even mean Leopard gets features that they might otherwise not have tried to include.


----------



## mindbend (Apr 12, 2007)

No worries here. Leopard in terms of new features and improvements is the most ho-hum of all the OS X releases to date (for me). I'm not saying I won't change my mind once I use it, but the sneak peak stuff is completely uninteresting to me. Time Warp? No thanks. Backups for Grandma. Spaces? Granted, I never used multiple work space shareware so I may not know what I'm missing, but it seems really overrated. I have no issues with screen organization whatsoever as it is. It's called keyboard shortcuts and Expose. No particular need for Spaces. And all the Mail, iChat, iCal, Dashboard, Accessilibity enhancements, while nice, is not anything I have to have to day (or maybe ever). 

Now true 64-bit OS running true 64-bit apps (Motion, Final Cut come to mind) would be more my thing. And Core Animation has a lot of potential if FCP 6 Suite takes advantage of it. Otherwise I could care less if someone can build a cool screensaver more easily thanks to Core Animation.

And while they're at it, maybe they can make the 8-core machine a little more compelling. Not that the 8-core is anything to sneeze at.

1. The memory bottleneck needs to be resolved
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=295355

2. A next-gen GPU needs a home
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37614

3. I need some specs for Final Cut that make it really worth jumping from a Dual 2.7 G5. (We'll see what kind of specs we get next week at NAB).

So, bring it on Apple. New next-gen towers (new design too please) complete with Leopard in October!


----------



## rubaiyat (Apr 12, 2007)

Wow! And you all seem so surprised!


----------



## Damrod (Apr 13, 2007)

It's rather uncool, especially as the whole world get's to suffer under the delay without having any use from the iPhone. With _some_ luck, it might hit Europe around X-Mas, if at all this year

Hope we get a fully developed OS later this year then. With the delay, there better be a minimum of "child diseases" then


----------



## fryke (Apr 13, 2007)

At least they've now jumped from brushed metal to unified look in the latest build. That's _something_, isn't it.  I'm happy 'bout that.


----------



## powermac (Apr 13, 2007)

I am not very upset, although was looking forward to some new features. In the back of my mind I figured Leopard would be delayed because of other adventures Apple is taking. Oh well, not much to complain about, Tiger still better than Vista


----------



## salival (Apr 13, 2007)

fryke said:


> At least they've now jumped from brushed metal to unified look in the latest build. That's _something_, isn't it.  I'm happy 'bout that.



That is cool. If you want the Unified look in Tiger try and use UNO.


sal


----------



## bbloke (Apr 13, 2007)

rubaiyat said:


> Wow! And you all seem so surprised!


Probably because Apple itself had continued to state Leopard would ship in the Spring of 2007, even until recently.  Putting it off until October is a fairly sizable delay.

Cached version of Apple's OS X page (cached because it has very recently been updated to say October 2007):


			
				Google Cache said:
			
		

> This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.apple.com/macosx/ as retrieved on 8 Apr 2007 08:06:29 GMT.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...




Amazon's description, too, seemed to further state this.



Amazon" data-source=""
	class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
	
		
Amazon said:
			
		

> Product Features
> 
> ...
> 
> Scheduled to ship in spring 2007




And then there were articles that cited Apple, such as the one on MacNN, which denied delays to Leopard:


			
				MacNN said:
			
		

> Apple has denied circulating rumors of delays in Mac OS X Leopard, its next-generation operating system. A report by Michael Gartenberg of JupiterResearch says that Apple has confirmed Leopard will ship in the "spring", contrary a rumor floated by the somewhat unreliable Asian Digitimes publication. Last week, it claimed that Apple was going to delay the release of Leopard--until possibly October--to allow Leopard to support Windows Vista via Boot Camp. "The rumor mill is wrong again," Gartenberg wrote in his blog. The company, however, in February flatly denied delays in shipment of its revolutionary Apple TV set-top until just a few days before launch, despite published reports to the contrary. The much-anticipated device, formally introduced in January at Macworld Expo, was delayed by just over three weeks and began arriving in customers hands last week.



By the way, I looked up Michael Gartenberg's blog to see what it actually said: 


> Is Leopard Delayed? Nope, not according to Apple
> 
> Michael Gartenberg | March 23, 2007, 03:07 PM
> 
> Reports coming in that Leopard's delayed until sometime in October. Just spoke with Apple who confirmed the reports are wrong and Leopard is still scheduled to ship in this spring as they previously announced. The rumor mill is wrong again.



Delays do happen, and Apple have delayed some product releases in the past.  It's just that Apple had maintained, until very recently, that Leopard was still set to see the light of day this Spring.


----------



## bbloke (Apr 13, 2007)

fryke said:


> At least they've now jumped from brushed metal to unified look in the latest build. That's _something_, isn't it.  I'm happy 'bout that.


Oooh, that would be good news.  I've not liked the trend towards a less consistent look, with regards to windows within the OS and within Apple's own applications.  Of all the appearances, the brushed metal is my least favorite.  It seems a little lacking in elegance to me.


----------



## Rhisiart (Apr 13, 2007)

The delay may be in part a marketing ploy to wet people's appetites for what may well be a relatively unimpressive upgrade.


----------



## chevy (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm still waiting for the new features. We need better applications integration (including AppleTV and iPod management, iWork, and all iApps), faster media encoding (similar to ffmpegx) when transfering from one app to the next, and the unified look is very welcome.


----------



## bbloke (Apr 13, 2007)

rhisiart said:


> The delay may be in part a marketing ploy to wet people's appetites for what may well be a relatively unimpressive upgrade.


I do worry a little that Leopard will not be as impressive as hoped.  I agreed with a lot of what mindbend wrote.  Time Machine doesn't really impress me at this stage.  As for Spaces, I'm quite happy using the "Hide" command or occasionally using Exposé.  Improvements to Mail and Safari would be interesting to see.  

It would be nice if the secret features turn out to really blow everyone away, but I'm not holding my breath.  I'd love to be proven wrong but, at the moment, I expect Leopard to be another incremental improvement, rather than revolutionary.


----------



## Mikuro (Apr 13, 2007)

I don't agree with the people who say Tiger is good enough. In many ways, Tiger was like a downgrade from Panther. It really needs polish. As for Leopard's new features, I don't know. After being so disappointed by Tiger, which sounded like a freakin' awesome upgrade before it was released, I can't get excited over things like Spaces or Time Machine. If they're implemented well, they'll be very nice, but it's all in the implementation, and there's no way to know about that until I get to use it (and I don't have faith in Apple to do things right anymore). Again I point to Spotlight; it could've changed the way I use computers, but instead it just gets in my way and makes previously-simple tasks a chore.



fryke said:


> At least they've now jumped from brushed metal to unified look in the latest build. That's _something_, isn't it.  I'm happy 'bout that.



Interesting. Visually, I think this is good. They've even unified the two "unified" types. (The fact that that sentence even makes sense is proof that Tiger is a mess. ) Now it seems that active windows appear dark (à la iTunes 7), while background windows appear light (à la Mail 2). Contrast is good. A big problem with iTunes 7 and brushed metal is that the windows look almost identical in the two modes. I'm also glad to see the rest of iTunes 7's interface (the custom scroll bar style, for example) has not been adopted, because that's all ugly, IMHO. Ugly like _Windows_.

On the other hand, I think the dark-unified look is too dark for system-wide use, and generally the ugliest of the bunch. The new look in the screenshots may be visually useful, but it's not visually pleasing. System Preferences, for instance, just looks silly in those screenshots. There's still time for that to be fine-tuned, though. Fingers crossed!

Functionally, I still prefer aqua. I really can't understand why they think being able to drag a window from any empty space is a good thing. I'm always dragging metal/unified windows by mistake because I miss a button by a few pixels. Oh well. (If you _really_ want dragging flexibility, bring back platinum-style window borders! )

I wish they'd just stick with aqua and forget about all these other types, but as long as it's consistent, I can respect it.

Does anyone know if aqua has been dumped in this latest build? Looks like it might have been, but then again, all the apps shown in those screenshots used unified or brushed metal to begin with.


----------



## Lt Major Burns (Apr 13, 2007)

where's this latest build source?


----------



## chevy (Apr 13, 2007)

I've just tried UNO, very good piece of software !


----------



## fryke (Apr 13, 2007)

lt.: all over the place. macnews.net.tc, macrumors.com, digg.com ...
-> http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/mac-os-x-theme-change-in-leopard-seed-9a410/ (with links to pix...)


----------



## chevy (Apr 13, 2007)

The last inconsitency is that Mail has rounded buttons while Safari has rounded rectangle buttons.


----------



## bbloke (Apr 13, 2007)

By the way, Mac Rumors is carrying an article that mentions the delay to Leopard.  They don't really say much new, but do say:



			
				Mac Rumors said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> A delay until October was actually predicted in a Page 2 rumor by DigiTimes. While Apple has claimed more broadly that the delay was due to a shift in resources to the iPhone project, DigiTimes said that the delay would be due to Apple's plan to "have its new OS support Windows Vista through an integrated version of Boot Camp."
> 
> ...



It could be Apple has plans to make Leopard more "Windows compatible," in a sense, and that this has posed one of the bigger problems in development.  

In addition, I remember the iPhone on display didn't have all the features working yet.  So it could also/instead be that the iPhone was/is behind schedule, and resources have been diverted to it as a priority in order to meet the release date.  The iPhone has caught the media's imagination and there are probably more potential iPhone-converts than Mac-converts, so a slippage of the iPhone release date might be more noticeable.


----------



## Satcomer (Apr 13, 2007)

Well things happen and I am starting to think about the next few months and this announcement. I would not be surprised if Apple discounts the current retail version of Tiger and announce every computer a Leopard reduced rate rate upgrade after WWDC.


----------



## icemanjc (Apr 13, 2007)

The one thing that annoys me, is I was hoping to get it before school started, now I have to wait after.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 13, 2007)

SPeaking of MacRumors, they now have pictures of a Leopard build.  From the looks of it, everything is using the Unified theme.  Mind you, when you click on the picture they have there on MacRumors, it looks like the Finder window is squared off instead of having rounded corners, but apparently that's from the screen capture in that build.  The windows are still rounded.

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/mac-os-x-theme-change-in-leopard-seed-9a410/


----------



## Qion (Apr 13, 2007)

Some GUI developer in one of the comments calls it a fake, saying that it does not show resolution independence and can be done using a preinstalled system file.

I'm intensely disappointed if this is the final look of Leopard.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 13, 2007)

I actually like the Unified look.  It's very clean compared to the brushed metal which was cool a few years ago when it was introduced but now just looks gaudy to me.

So long as it doesn't looks like iTunes, I'm fine with it.


----------



## Qion (Apr 13, 2007)

I just want something completely different. I'm sick of working with Finder in any form, especially a form that resembles something I could just skin with ShapeShifter. Ugh.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 13, 2007)

As a Mac OS user from before OS X, I do miss the consistency of the Classic Finder.  I even liked the Platinum look and being able to change the colors of the menu highlights.  OS X dropped a lot of things that the old Finder did right (especially with the zoom button), but the old Finder could have benefited from some of the new stuff in the new Finder (one window navigation).  These are features for me that are lacking and that I need back.  I don't mind the look, but let me be able to change something to personalize it some, even if it is just a little bit.  I'm happy with a Unified theme.  Just a choice of menu highlight colors would suffice.

Yes, there's Shapeshifter but why change something that already looks good (with the exception of the Brushed Metal for me)?  I barely used Kaleidoscope in Mac OS 9 and below since the regular Platinum look with the option for different menu highlight colors was good enough for me.


----------



## fryke (Apr 13, 2007)

And even better was how Rhapsody took that Platinum look and let you change most of the colours.  Not only six or seven appearance colours, but any hue you wanted.  Of course it was more relevant back then, because there wasn't enough real productivity software. Now that I'm productive on OS X, I rarely have the time to switch around theme-stuff.  Even my desktop pictures often last for more than a month.   

(Or to put it more plainly: I don't care much about themability of the OS, as long as I think Apple makes the right choices. Doing away with brushed metal certainly is an important step.)


----------



## Qion (Apr 13, 2007)

fryke said:


> And even better was how Rhapsody took that Platinum look and let you change most of the colours.  Not only six or seven appearance colours, but any hue you wanted.  Of course it was more relevant back then, because there wasn't enough real productivity software. Now that I'm productive on OS X, I rarely have the time to switch around theme-stuff.  Even my desktop pictures often last for more than a month.
> 
> (Or to put it more plainly: I don't care much about themability of the OS, as long as I think Apple makes the right choices. Doing away with brushed metal certainly is an important step.)



...but Apple has always been about individuality, expression, and originality. I believe that their fundamental product would mirror that, and with brushed metal it really hasn't. I expect a lot of the creative minds at Apple because that's what they've made for themselves, and besides that, my own creativity hungers for a UI change.


----------



## Rhisiart (Apr 13, 2007)

chevy said:


> I've just tried UNO, very good piece of software !


I agree++


----------



## andychrist (Apr 14, 2007)

Can UNO do anything more than Unsanity's Metallifizer?  Because in UNO's screen shot on MacUpdate, there is an error concerning iTunes.

Back on topic, I'm kinda glad Leopard's release is being pushed back.  After all, Tiger has only recently been updated with 10.4.9.  Don't see the point in shelling out for a new, inevitably buggy OS as soon as the previous iteration is mature.  And unless the "secret" features of 10.5 are as mind-blowing and useful as the iPhone's Multi-Touch or as was Panther's Exposé, then I can't imagine that this new version is going to be a must-have for the average user.  On the other hand, the iPhone has already generated such excitement and anticipation in the general public that Apple really could not afford to delay its launch without suffering a terrible blow to its image.  

As for all those who worry that Apple is abandoning the Mac in favor of gadgets, as signified by the dropping of "Computers" from their name:  At this point, everyone already just calls the company Apple anyway, "Computer" is just redundant.  And gadgets like the iPhone and Apple TV, and to some extent even the iPod, are still computers in their own right.  As electronic devices have grown in sophistication, the whole idea of computing has become more amorphous.   And as Fryke quite rightly pointed out some time ago, with all the time and money Apple has recently poured into the Mac platform, going from PPC to Intel, there is absolutely no chance of their abandoning it!  The fact that both Apple TV and the iPhone rely on cutting edge versions of OS X only underscores this point.


----------



## powermac (Apr 14, 2007)

I don't have to have mind-blowing features, especially in every release of a new OSX. Sure, the masses agree that the Brushed Metal Look is over, and it appears Apple has well. What I like to see from one version to the next is stability and more consistency. I feel OSX has done that. It could be argued that Tiger just added some features over Panther. I am not expecting Leopard to be a drastic change, but hopefully some improvement over what we have now, with a few features added for comfort.


----------



## fryke (Apr 14, 2007)

Yes, but stability usually isn't simply improved from, say, 10.3.x to 10.4 or 10.4.x to 10.5. Rather, you'll be safer on the omega-version of the lower system until the new system has had its kinks worked out.


----------



## Lt Major Burns (Apr 14, 2007)

not a fan of the new unified look.  looks awkwardly dark, and it generally looks a bit half arsed.  like they looked at what they'd got and went 'yeah that's the one that works... bugger it'

Vista's new look is also a bit rubbish, but you can at least tell a lot more thought went into it.


----------



## powermac (Apr 15, 2007)

Lt Major Burns said:


> Vista's new look is also a bit rubbish, but you can at least tell a lot more thought went into it.



I am not sure I agree. Only wrapped around the same windows and dialogues.


----------



## KekoKun (Apr 15, 2007)

a2dp, thats something 3rd pt apps arent giving me and will ave to wait until october to get.


----------



## Thank The Cheese (Apr 16, 2007)

the real reason Leopard has been delayed (Joy of Tech)


----------



## MnM (Apr 17, 2007)

lmao cheese, that made me laugh.

omg the truth has finally been revealed!


----------



## icemanjc (Apr 17, 2007)

lol, that was good, I just wish Apple would suprise us with somrthing for once.


----------



## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

The delay did _not_ suprise you?  I personally wonder if that means we'll finally see a 10.4.10.


----------



## Lt Major Burns (Apr 18, 2007)

just to confuse the people who already have trouble with the OS numbering scheme...


----------



## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

"Mac Oh-Es Ten, Ten point four point Ten." Yeah.


----------



## salival (Apr 18, 2007)

I figured that after showing off the iPhone, the bar had been raised very high on expectation for the next Apple product, specially OS X, since the iPhone has a really amazing OS within it (which seems to be a version of Leopard).

Now Leopard can't be anything less impressive than the iPhone, it has to be really amazing.

I think it will and Apple's delay and secrecy over the features is hint that something big this way comes. Leopard is serious stuff, im intriged.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 18, 2007)

fryke said:


> "Mac Oh-Es Ten, Ten point four point Ten." Yeah.



I didn't know you were fluent in Spanglish..

"Oh, Es Ten!"

_Se dice *"Oh, es diez!"*_   Vamos a hablar correctamente, por favor. 

Sorry...it's a slow afternoon here at work (thank God).


----------



## fryke (Apr 18, 2007)

Oh. I wasn't trying to do Spanglish... Sowwy.


----------



## Thank The Cheese (Apr 18, 2007)

am I the only one who gets annoyed when I hear people pronounce it "OS Ex" rather than "OS Ten"? maybe i need to get out more.


----------



## pds (Apr 19, 2007)

If you get out more you may find more people annoying you with "Awe sEx"


----------



## hawki18 (Apr 19, 2007)

Thank The Cheese said:


> am I the only one who gets annoyed when I hear people pronounce it "OS Ex" rather than "OS Ten"? maybe i need to get out more.



What is the issue X is Greek for 10 so sound good to me


----------



## symphonix (Apr 19, 2007)

I figure if it was *really* meant to be pronounced as "ten" instead of "ex", then they'd put a big number "10" on the box instead of an "X", right? ;-)


----------



## Sunnz (Apr 19, 2007)

They are just implying the X as in UniX and LinuX but just pronouncing as Ten to avoid UNIX license thing.


----------



## fryke (Apr 20, 2007)

hawki18 said:


> What is the issue X is Greek for 10 so sound good to me


Roman. Not Greek. But I have to say, I've _always_ hated how they initially called it "Eks" (long before release) and then moved to call it "ten". We've had this discussion over and over. It would have made _so_ much more sense to call it "Mac OS X (eks) 1.0", like they did with the first version of Mac OS X Server. By now, we'd be talking about Leopard: Mac OS X 5.0. Even the paying for the upgrades would have been easier to defend. But having the version number "10" twice in a product's name right next to each other, once in Roman, once in decimal numbers, is plain stupid in my view.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 20, 2007)

fryke said:


> Roman. Not Greek. But I have to say, I've _always_ hated how they initially called it "Eks" (long before release) and then moved to call it "ten". We've had this discussion over and over. It would have made _so_ much more sense to call it "Mac OS X (eks) 1.0", like they did with the first version of Mac OS X Server. By now, we'd be talking about Leopard: Mac OS X 5.0. Even the paying for the upgrades would have been easier to defend. But having the version number "10" twice in a product's name right next to each other, once in Roman, once in decimal numbers, is plain stupid in my view.



I have to agree with you there.  To me, calling it "Mac Oh Es Eks" made more sense especially considering the UNI*X* underbelly that made up Mac OS X.  And like you mention, it would be easier to justify the move from Mac OS "eks" 4.x to mac OS "eks" 5.0.  Just adding the "10" in front of it immediately makes it look like a minor revision to everyone that's accustomed to the first number signifying a major revision.  I thought it was rather tacky to called it "Mac Oh-Es Ten".  Seemed more like a marketing ploy than anything common-sensical.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 20, 2007)

Sunnz said:


> They are just implying the X as in UniX and LinuX but just pronouncing as Ten to avoid UNIX license thing.



I always thought they couldn't call it "UNIX" because the Open Group (the group that certifies an OS as being "UNIX") didn't approve it.  I thought that it had to adhere to a certain structure before it could be approved to be called "UNIX".  I'm sure they can afford the licensing costs especially with how well they're doing now, but who's to say really. 

I just found this link on Wikipedia that says that Apple will be submitting Mac OS X Leopard and Leopard Server to be certified under the Single UNIX Specification so that it's fully UNIX compliant.  Maybe then it will officially be called a "UNIX" operating system.  Maybe this is the reason for the delay as well?


----------

