# Stupid Apple store employees



## 033 (Mar 3, 2004)

I bought an iTrip yesterday. I asked the guy that rang it up, are you sure this works with the 3rd gen Ipod. "Yes". I walked out of the store and only got a block away when I still wasn't sure. I came in and asked one more person. I directly said, "are you sure this works because I DONT want to go home and not have it fit in my iPod." Well I get home and it's the iTrip for the old iPod. I wasted 45 minutes yesterday and now I have to go back. I was so heated last night. I just need to vent. 

This was at the Apple Store in San Francisco which opened February 28th.


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, although it's not very smart of Apple to hire non-knowledgeable employees, I'm kind of surprised you didn't notice that yourself, I believe it's printed right there on the box... (the iPod version the iTrip works with)


----------



## 033 (Mar 3, 2004)

I did notice. But the guy said "it works with ALL" then there was an iPod with the buttons like mine and it fit... so I figured the top was the same. I ordered it from Griffin over the weekend and they declined my card for some stupid reason. So I figured rather than trying again, i'd just buy it in person.


----------



## dlloyd (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, the top should be the same. Weird. There are only two versions, the iTrip for 1st and 2nd gens, and the one for 3rd generation iPods. So I guess somewhere there must have been a mixup


----------



## nb3004 (Mar 3, 2004)

i dont like the apple store employees much, good thing the stores are sweet


----------



## bobbo (Apr 12, 2004)

I had an experience like that with an Apple Phone employee. I called up to ask why there was no cube animation when I fast user switched. "Is it because my iMac G3 can't support Quartz Extreme?" I asked. The person on the other end seemed stunned. "We make QUARTZ?? Are you sure?" "well yes, the animations in Panther, aren't they Quartz Extreme?" (pause) "Oh right, yes, your computer can't support it." Grr.


----------



## Darkshadow (Apr 13, 2004)

Err...why didn't you bring your iPod with you when you went to buy it?  Then you would have known (or at least, you could have shown the iPod to the guy you were asking).

Sure, you still would have to wait until you got home to use it, but it probably would have been helpful.


----------



## karavite (Apr 24, 2004)

I'm with 033, service and knowledge these days is completely down the tubes. The rare times I run into a store employee (at ANY store) who knows their stuff, I either tell them they are great and/or tell their managers how great they are. You know these people are going somewhere in life.


----------



## Giaguara (Apr 25, 2004)

A friend had a G5 that wuit working. It'd have the startup chime, then end for hours to the grey screen before startup, not getting anywhere further. Retrying it in a single user mode didn't work - it would tell it had problems so even the fsck -fy would not have worked in it. Starting to a CD did not work, starting in target mode did not work - it did not show in the other computer after minutes and minutes of wait...
So, trying and retrying with the genius.. at some point he was able to start up to an external firewire harddrive from the store - to run Norton on the G5. Norton did not want to run - "Disk error" (wouldn't it be nice to get a bit more specific error code for a program that is supposed to fix your disk problems?) .. after which, Disk Utility did not want to run because of Norton (which after re and retried still refused to fix the disk. So, .. wondering if he would have used just the Disk Utility to repair (or DiskWarrior) the disk, it could have been repaired (or at least the files saved)? .. the hard disk ended up being replaced ..


----------



## MacMuppet (May 19, 2004)

I would have used Diskwarrior first, personally.

Just how good do you guys reckon you have to be to be an Apple Store dude? I'm applying for Mac Specialist at the new London store, and don't really know if I have a hope in hell. 
I'm assuming they get paid a bit more than your average retail monkey, but of course if I ask I won't even get an interview as they want real Mac fanboys (me) who would kill to work for Apple in any capacity (also me) regardless of the pay - but living in London I can't take much of a pay-cut or I'll be homeless - anyway, I thought I'd apply and see what happens.

I've been in IT for about 6-7 years now, Mac and PC support for the last 4. I switched (at home) as soon as 10.1 came out, and am getting pretty good at OS X and know enough to solve most OS 9 problems.
Nothing brings me greater joy than the look of awe when you show someone Panther. Give me half and hour and I could make Bill Gates Switch. Going from the job descriptions at apple.com/uk/retail the 'Mac Specialist' sounds more like me than the 'Mac Genius'  - if only because of the examples they give; right now I could replace a Hard Drive in my sleep but as for a casual conversation about Digital Video, I'd need more exposure to relevant Apps.

Are they likely to say no just because I've never used Final Cut of any description? Surely the enthusiam's the thing, though, as if I was an absolute Pro at everything then theres no way they could pay me half as much as I could earn elsewhere in support or just as an operator of some kind....

What do you guys think? Does anyone know any Apple Store people, and how good are they?


----------



## Giaguara (May 19, 2004)

I can't say for political reasons much about this now.  (Yes, and .. most are still people.)

We didn't have Disk Warrior. If we had, we'd have tried that - if the CD worked.

Apple UK uses external agencies to find staff. There are thousands of applications, pretty sure. Good luck is probably the best I can do / say. You are not the only one who has applied to those positions from this board either.


----------



## MacMuppet (May 19, 2004)

Yeah might as well just wait and see. I'm unlikely to be shortlisted though as I'm only applying just now, they must have thousands of applications by now. 
Well, if you don't ask you don't get, as my dear old mother would say....


----------



## Randman (May 19, 2004)

Make a complaint to the manager. And next time, don't automatically assume the person knows what he or she is talking about (they're trying to make a sale) and read the cover. If you have an iTrip cover that says 3rd gen iPod (with dock connector) and an iTrip cover that says for 1st and 2nd gen iPods (without dock connectors), then simply purchase the one that fits your iPod.
   It's one thing to complain (rightly) about poor service, but to actually say the store person was stupid when you yourself didn't know, is a bit extreme.


----------



## Langley (May 22, 2004)

Jeeez, there are so many products and specs out there I don't blame some sales ppl getting it wrong (I'm in sales).

Firstly do your own research first to check if it will work (it saves everyone time).  It's 'well' documented on the net.  

Secondly sales ppl are human they make mistakes (does not mean it's right to get it wrong)....get a return or exchange and get over it.

Thirdly and most of all...'did YOU stuff up in your job this week?'

Ppl expect sales ppl to know everything....make it a Uni degree, pay them accordingly and then you can complain.


----------



## MacMuppet (May 25, 2004)

Man's got a point. Its the age old thing of the things you spend most money on are sold to you by a person who isnt paid enough to care.
Take holidays. You can only afford one a year, maybe two. Its the highlight of your year (or at least for some people, I haven't gone on holiday for 9 years) but do you know what travel agennts are paid? My first job was a travel agent, full time, £6k a year.

Brings us back to the question - how much are apple store employess paid?
I know its not exactly the same as you have to be a bit of an enthusiast to even get a job there, and I doubt anyone deliberately wants to provide a bad service as they love what they are selling and want people to not only be happy but impressed.
One would hope they are paid a bit more as a certain amount of techical knowledge and the whole 'representing the company' thing are important to Apple - its not like working in Tandy or Radio Shack is it?


----------



## brianleahy (May 25, 2004)

I think a distinction needs to be made here: it is one thing if the employees don't know about the products _and admit that they don't know._   It is something ENTIRELY different if they profess to know about a product, and give information that is diametrically wrong.  

Certainly, mistakes can and do happen sometimes, but the store should certainly grant a refund without argument if the purchase is made based on bad advice from an employee (033 didn't mention whether he got a refund from the Apple Store...?)

Whether it's due to store policy or apathy on the part of the sales people, employees should _not_ give customers 'invented' or 'guessed' advice.  I have far more confidence and respect for people who admit when they don't know something than those who make things up.


----------



## quiksan (May 25, 2004)

totally agree with brianleahy here.

in related news - i had a great experience with an apple store employee the other day:
i was looking at an FM transmitter for my new ipod mini, and was asking which worked the best (signal strength, etc).  instead of just telling me his opinion on the best, he took it out to my car with me, and let me decide.  that's customer service!  i would have accepted if he hadn't known for sure, but the fact that he went that extra step to demo it in my car, that's just cool.


----------



## dlloyd (May 25, 2004)

Yeah, that is pretty impressive! I'm always amazed when I find someone like that, because it's not the norm. Imagine what Apple could do if they tried to become the 'consumer's company. e.g. making that company policy


----------



## Giaguara (May 25, 2004)

Many, many people - not just Apple Store employees - have a hard time to tell 3 simple words = "I don't know". (and an answer to the previous question - part time works at Apple start at $ 7-10 / h)


----------



## MacMuppet (May 26, 2004)

I'll double check anything I'm not sure of - nothing's worse than when someone follows your advice, and you turn out to be wrong.
Thanks for the info though Giagura - I've applied and hope to get a Saturday job - after all its not really about the money is it, I could work a 6th day a week contracting or similar and rake it in but it wouldnt be any fun and I'd rather have the day off. 
Could quite happily be paid anything to hang around in the apple store on Saturdays showing off cool things - at least I'd get a t-shirt!


----------



## dlloyd (May 26, 2004)

MacMuppet, that's sure right. If I give incorrect info, I always feel awful...


----------



## evildan (May 29, 2004)

It's funny you say that, and I'm not trying to speak to all Apple Store employees. But I had the opposite happen to me.

I was in Chicago and I mistakenly grabbed the wrong iTrip (one for first generation iPods and I have a 3rd generation iPod). The employee who was ringing me up warned me that this would not work with the new iPods. I looked closer to realize the photo of the iTrip showed exactly what the connection looked like.

The two versions of the iTrip are significantly different from one another. I'm surprised as well, and if you were questioning it, didn't you see the picture on the box? I'm not trying to insult you, but perhaps it was a miscommunication?


----------



## Macsith (Jun 2, 2004)

brianleahy said:
			
		

> I think a distinction needs to be made here: it is one thing if the employees don't know about the products _and admit that they don't know._.



Have you ever told a customer "I don't know"?  In my broad experience when you say "I don't know" they look at you like you have just hit their family pet with your car! 

It takes 'two to tango' and also keep in mind and accept that they may not know.  Will you accept I don't know???  If you do you will be on person I have never served...


----------



## Giaguara (Jun 2, 2004)

Macsith said:
			
		

> Have you ever told a customer "I don't know"?  In my broad experience when you say "I don't know" they look at you like you have just hit their family pet with your car!
> 
> It takes 'two to tango' and also keep in mind and accept that they may not know.  Will you accept I don't know???  If you do you will be on person I have never served...



It may take a lot of honesty to tell "I don't know". But I rather get an answer "I don't know, but let me try to find it out .." than some answer that is improvised - and that is just plain wrong. 

I don't mind if people tell me they don't know. And sometimes the questions are such that you can't lie if you odn't know - one example is "how is the US Spanish keyboard layout?" I know what the standard US and standard Spanish Spanish are - but an improvised answer e.g. in that case just would not do. So many times it is very helpful if the employees can at least know where to find the info fast. If they don't have the US Spanish keyboard in the store (they never had had one), at least they should know where to find a picture of the layout.


----------



## brianleahy (Jun 2, 2004)

I have great sympathy for people working in retail computer stores, but really, there's no reason to just make things up.  

If you invent an answer just to get rid of an irritating customer, there's an excellent chance he or she will be back within hours, more upset than ever.  If you're lucky, s/he will corner some other unlucky employee and vent, but if all the employees do that, there's nowhere to hide.

I try to avoid my local CompUSA, but I can't always; they're the only 'certified Apple retailer' in the area.   Never have I been in there when every single employee wasn't busy answering questions - vast numbers of questions, many arising from a misunderstanding of the technology that is so fundamental that a brief answer is impossible.   Unfortunately (even tragically) most people go into computer stores as much for information and education as to buy merchandise, and retailers do their customers a disservice by not training their employees better.

On the other hand, this phenomenon DOES cost those places money.  For instance: often when I go in there, I know exactly what I want, but it's locked in a glass cabinet, so I have to wait until one of the employees can slip away from the clueless horde and grab the key.  More than once I've walked out empty handed, even when the desired merchandise was clearly visible in a cabinet, because I just ran out of time...   

Maybe I should carry a sign: "I have no questions, know exactly what I want = easy, instant commission".   ;-)


----------



## Zammy-Sam (Jun 2, 2004)

Happy Birthday, Brian! Wondering what you are doing on macosx on your birthday


----------



## brianleahy (Jun 2, 2004)

Thank you Zammy.  

I'm actually at work, so arguably, being on macosx.com is sort of like celebrating...

I celebrated over the weekend, so the actual bday is actually sort of an afterthought.


----------



## Macsith (Jun 2, 2004)

Well maybe till retail people are trained better and then paid more...which is not the sales person fault on either point.....maybe we should also do our own research on products.  The world is full of it!  Then you will not be at the mercy of commission hungry, lying, and work aviding mob (as you all describe).  Maybe I should get a new carrier as I feel and see everyday a growing spite for sales ppl..even before you get through the door.  Dam us all to hell! happy?


----------



## Giaguara (Jun 3, 2004)

Hey don't just deviate this thread to stupid Apple employees .. 
One canadian Apple employee that lives on the same house than me saw like yesterday the first time in his life a 2nd gen iPod ..  oh wait, that is just inexperience and un-geekiness.


----------



## brianleahy (Jun 3, 2004)

Macsith -- if your outburst has to do with my post, I would advise you to read a little more carefully (like the first sentence?).  The only salesperson behavior I have actually condemned is fabrication of bogus answers to momentarily (and only briefly) appease customers.

My comments about how it's hard to get assistance because of all the clueless customers in need of extensive tutoring is _hardly_ a criticism of salespeople.  If anything, I'm criticizing either (a) management for failing to hire adequate staff or (b) customers who fail to do any advance research, relying too heavily on overburdened sales staff to educate them.

EDIT: perhaps I see a possible source of confusion - my language about "a misunderstanding of the technology that is so fundamental" - was about the customers' questions, not ignorant sales people.   Sorry if that was unclear.


----------



## Macsith (Jun 4, 2004)

Well Im Glad you clarified that as I was confused by the heading "Stupid apple employees".  Maybe renaming the thread differently may evoke a different response from us stupid Apple employees.  Oh sorry you did not mean that heading


----------



## brianleahy (Jun 4, 2004)

Ah, well then, your issue is with 033, who originated the thread, and thus, gave it that name.


----------

