# When the Beta expires, will people be hosed?



## neye_eve (Sep 13, 2000)

Ok, Apple is saying that you can install the beta side-by-side with OS 9, and that if you choose that kind of installation, all the OS 9 stuff will be copied into an "OS 9" folder.

So, what happens when the beta expires on the 15th and we still don't have OS X final (god forbid)?  Will it auto-uninstall and replace all the pieces of OS 9, or will we need to dig around in the system and replace files manually?

I know, it's not recommended to have them on the same partition, but it's supported, so responses like "just install on a different partition" are appreciated, but not nearly as much as those that answer my original question(s).

Thanks,
neye


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## MacFan (Sep 13, 2000)

The documentation that is on the OS X site says that you will need a bootable CD so that you can select OS 9 to restart.  If you are running only the Beta than you are pretty muh SOL.


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## dennisuello (Sep 13, 2000)

They'll create an update patch to extend the "trial" time, in case they are late with final release.  Don't worry.


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## neye_eve (Sep 13, 2000)

hmmmm...  well, I suppose all the file formats are going to be the same for me whether I'm on OS X or OS 9. 

I'll just do the partitioning thing anyways for kicks (still only have one partition on my 13 Gig drive in the dv se).

Thanks for the responses,

neye


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## nedward (Sep 13, 2000)

Since you need a working OS 9 system folder on the partition to enable the two-OSs-on-one-partition feature, Apple's assuming you possess a bootable OS 9 CD. The same will allow you to get your directory structure back after May 15 if you haven't upgraded OS X PB to OS X 1.0 by that point.


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## panther (Sep 14, 2000)

The FAQ said that if you are installing onto a partition with MacOS 9 on it, everything would be moved into a folder called Mac OS 9.  I wonder if "everything" means the entire contents of the partitions (including miscellaneous applications and documents), or just the OS 9 System Folder.  In any case, all you would have to do to restore is boot from any bootable CD, throw away all the Mac OS X stuff, and put everything in the Mac OS 9 folder back into its original place.

Hmm....  OS X doesn't have a System folder, does it?  How does the Mac know to boot from whatever OS X booting mechanism there is, instead of from the perfectly valid OS 9 System Folder on the same partition?  Remember, the System Folder does not have to be in the root directory, or even be called "System Folder".  Does Darwin offer the same ability to have 2 fully functional systems on the same partition?


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## neye_eve (Sep 14, 2000)

That's really my question - will <b>we</b> have to move everything back into it's original OS 9 directory structure <b>manually</b>, or is there some sort of logging mechanism that gets run during the install which will automatically replace all the files it moved to the OS 9 folder

neye


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## doppelbock (Sep 14, 2000)

I think it is best for all to install the beta on a separate partition...then whatever happens next may, whichever path you choose, you'll be okay......just use the system disk to select your os9 partition again.

and of course we all back up our important stuff...don't we????


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## neye_eve (Sep 15, 2000)

Just did all the partitioning and re-installing last night.  Took all of an hour and a half.  Didn't know it'd be that painless.

thanks for the tips,
neye


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## marin (Sep 18, 2000)

I think that was just a paranoid statement. The OS X is almost 90% finished.


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## marin (Sep 18, 2000)

The statement about OS X coming after 05/15/2001 , I mean.

Besides, if you boot from anything that's >=8.1, you'll be able to see your OS X volume. Installing OS 9 over OS X is a bit tedious, but it's doable.


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## Gorbag (Sep 22, 2000)

> _Originally posted by marin _
> *I think that was just a paranoid statement. The OS X is almost 90% finished.
> *


Which sense of "almost 90% finished" do you mean?

 Really 60% finished, which is almost 90%.

 It's been almost 90% finished for the last 9 months now, and it's gonna be
90% finished in May.


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## Gregory (Sep 22, 2000)

OS X 1.0 was suppose to be a "late summer 2000" after the Mac OS 9.5 in August, right? 

Usually a beta does have an expiration date, all the software I've seen did, and would expect them to issue updates, one of which is "on the agenda" is to FINALLY get a working workable Software Update mechanism in place, one that is slightly more ah, reliable - like they want us to be guinea pigs and trust it on this?

January two thousand and.. two, that's when I look for a 99.99% version and maybe version 1.1 say March 2002 for this OS. 

I'm sure that the OS 9.1 Fortissimo will improve Classic, add Carbon 1.1, OpenTransport 3.0 and some other stuff. 

Dragging our way to a bright modern OS (it IS cool and elegent if and when it works).  

Partition? I've got plenty - two OS 9 system volumes (one for real work, one for Classic), OS X (UFS so 9 doesn't mess or see it and utilities don't clobber it), swap/scratch, and one common volume for all the apps/docs/util/etc files.  The only thing I lose are OS X prefs and I'm looking at how to backup my user areas from there also. 

Gregory


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 18, 2000)

Will the user see any difference between final and beta other than fixing things that need to be fixed (like ppp connect).
Will it sport more language support ?
Will it have more applications bundled with it ?
Will it have more UNIX apps ?
will...
will...
will...
(some answers ??)

Admiral


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## MasonMcD (Oct 21, 2000)

And for a brief shining moment, before I logged out and back in, my software update icon in the dock was an OSX CD icon (white, with the Aqua X) with an orangy arrow on top of it, pointing down.

The icon in the finder wasn't changed, though, so I force quit the desktop to see if that worked. It didn't, so I logged out and back in. That's when I lost the dock icon.

So, they're playing around with it.


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## stizz (Oct 21, 2000)

I have also had Software update active upon login periodically. I have not noticed any actual updating of my software, but then again I wouldn't know where to look if changes had actually been made. It makes me wonder if on the off chance that the final is not ready by the beta's expiration date, that apple will be able to extend the beta kill date via software update?

Also, it would not be unheard of for a [k] patch that would disable the expiration date to manifest itself somewhere on the net. It would  not suprise me at all.


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## ITz The MaN (Oct 21, 2000)

If people realy want to know what happens after OS X expires, you could disable the network time syncronization (maby even disconnect yourself from any broadband modems), set the date up to May 16, 2001 and see what happens. Maby even do a restart. I am too lazy to test it out myself (though i might if i get bored enough) but i would love to hear what happens (if anything at all)! If OS X doesnt let you use it, just restart into os 9 and change the time back!


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## ITz The MaN (Oct 21, 2000)

OK, i actually went and tested it myself.
I was able to restart my computer just fine after setting the time ahead, but after i loged in, a message poped up telling me i need to boot up from my system disk (ovcourse not the os x cd). It also thanked me for testing os x. The only thing i could do was press a button in the dialouge that showed up that said "shut down." So for all the people wondering what would happen, this is it.
   If you wanna start using os x again, you would have to boot of your system cd (by holding C at start up), set the time back, then restart again. Once back in os x, it would be a good idea to turn network time syncronization back on.


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## jlvanw (Oct 22, 2000)

I first installed OSX w/OS9, then later I partioned the hard drive and installed OS9 on the first partioned and then I installed OSX on the second position.
OSx still copied Os9 on the second partion
so I can work w/OS9 on either partion


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 22, 2000)

Very wise!  I did the same  ** just in case I had probs with OS X  **


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## wmoss (Oct 23, 2000)

Mac OS X Public Beta is for testing purposes. That's an issue that's been well drilled into our heads in any discussion of Mac OS X since the first release of Rhapsody.

My guess is that Apple's release of the final version of Mac OS X will have an "updater" to updgrade only:
1. Mac OS 8.6 - 9
2. Mac OS X Server
3. Mac OS X Public Beta (from an "unhacked" state)

If the final release is too late in coming, Apple will patch to automatically extend the "cut off" date for three months or so. They've done this before with other software (MRJ public previews, an OpenDoc beta if I recall right, and I'm sure others). It'll be worked in to the auto-update feature or be a trivial download.

If all else fails, they'll simply remind you that Mac OS X Public Beta was for testing purposes only and that it's your responsibility not to be "burned". That's would be a PR nightmare, but legally they don't HAVE to do anything.


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## jlvanw (Oct 23, 2000)

I wasn't worried about the time runing out, that is why I partioned the drive so I could work either way.
I will be glad to get the full version  (when ever)


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 30, 2000)

Does anyone know how this transition will occur ??
Will we have to remove OS X beta and install the final
or will the CD update the beta to final specifications ?

and:
What will you people do ??
I know that some of you, like me, have partitioned
you HD to have OS 9 and OS X beta.  When the final rolls out
will you keep that OS 9 partition and have an OS 9 and an OD X final partition or is it going to be 100% OS X ???
What is your opinion ?


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## jlvanw (Oct 30, 2000)

It seems ever onei s worrying about OSX expireing before the actual issue is out.
I like many of you have partioned my hard drive for this reason.
I also have a USB HD on stand by for back up of my os9 
if and when OSX expires and the OSX isn't out yet.
John


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## alpine (Nov 8, 2000)

Actually I think that the people who installed on one partition are  better off when it comes to returning to os9. All you have to do is boot into os9 delete everthing outside of the os9 folder then take the contents of that folder and move it bake to root, Delete the now empty os9 folder and poof your done. And you don't even have an extra partion to deal with however either way I would strip everthing and reload from scratch just to be sure


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## jlvanw (Nov 8, 2000)

It doesn''t matter wether you have a partion or not,
Cause when you install OSX it copies os 9 from the other partion regardless. 
By having OS0 in a partion by its self you can use your printer- the other way you can't


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## MacRebell (Nov 22, 2000)

Is it really going to expire? Has anyone tried to set the date to June 2001 and reboot? 

I think it will continue too run, but I haven't tried yet. Maybe the Software upgrader will destroy the Public Beta on May 2001.


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## Ghoser777 (Nov 22, 2000)

> _Originally posted by MacRebell _
> *Is it really going to expire? Has anyone tried to set the date to June 2001 and reboot?
> 
> I think it will continue too run, but I haven't tried yet. Maybe the Software upgrader will destroy the Public Beta on May 2001. *



See above posts.

F-bacher

P.S. That means yes.


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## scruffy (Dec 9, 2000)

Well, the above couple of posts seem to point to a fairly obvious solution - turn off network time sync, set the clock back to 1968, and delete software update.

Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had a few extra tricks up their sleeves in this regard.  Logging outgoing TCP/IP traffic for a while might tell us what, if any, spying they have been doing on us, and indicate what we should set our firewalls to block after May 16.


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## VGZ (Dec 9, 2000)

What are yu all so worried about?  The final is supposed to be out by Feb. 24, 2001.  I plan on upgrading to the final don't you?

Stop worrying about the expiration date ,


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## fisgeggs (Jan 5, 2001)

OK. Why don\\\'t you, if it is such a <b> huge </b> problem, why don\\\'t you boot back into OS9 and change the time back and then reboot. It <i> could </i> work!!

Good Luck


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## monty (Jan 8, 2001)

Just to answer panther's second question:

The CoreServices folder in the System folder is the System Folder for OS X and the file bootX is an OS 9 system file and it loads the OSX kernel. The dock and Desktop are in that folder too.

peter


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## monty (Jan 8, 2001)

Sort of off topic but I was reading the loginwidow.strings (System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Resources/English.lproj/loginwidow.strings) file and i noticed that under "Second Date" is this:

"This Beta release of Mac OS X has expired.  You will need to restart your computer from a bootable Mac OS CD (not your Public Beta CD) to access the contents of your hard drive or reset your computer's startup disk. 

Thanks for helping and for being a part of Apple history.  We couldn't do it without you.  Visit us at http://www.apple.com/macosx for details about the new release of Mac OS X.";

I also there is:

/* Button title in alert to confirm restarting the computer into DOS/Windows (Intel computers only). */
"Restart in DOS"	=	"Restart in DOS";

You can't tell me they're not planning to port it to x86.

peter


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## ITz The MaN (Jan 8, 2001)

Considering the beta is only out for apple systems, I dont think that that message means apple is making os x for x86 (but you never know). It would be nice though if I could get an apple system on a cheep pc......


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## Agnt_Mulder (Jan 9, 2001)

I think it is ridiculous that Apple is planning to actually 'hose' OS X beta users. Why should we have spent all this time transitioning to the new system, then have to wait an month untill Apple actually releases the system software? I really hope they circulate a temporary updater;  I've grown kinda fond of the new system and do not relish the thought of having to revert to 9 for a while, lol.

    ...Maybe it's all part of the hard-sell...


     -Mulder.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 9, 2001)

Well...
I would like an updater too.
I have been an OS X user since october and I have grown accustommed to it.  I have added my own programs, my own additions, background pics, sounds, etc etc etc.  I really hate the idea that I might have to start from the beginning again. 

Admiral


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## omega884 (Jan 15, 2001)

I'm sorry but alot of you seem to be paying no attention to the world of computers as we know it.

1)OS X as we know it, is a beta that will expire when you're clock strikes May 16 2001. Solution: Set the clock back.

2)OS X will not require you to uninstall the beta to install the final version. One, that's a microsoft tactic not something apple does regularly. Two, when was the last time you had to compleatly remove your system to put the new one in? Three, if you've ever had to reinstall the beta, it just installs over your current setup, we can assume OS X Final will do the same.

3) Under any circumstance, if the beta should expire before OS X is released we can always restart from the OS9 cd which we all own. This will then tell your computer to start up with os 9. How do I know this? I've done it before and do you remember that with the move to OS 9 and the G3's and iMacs, apple places the boot ROM onto a file in your system folder? When you install OS X, the boot ROM tells it to go boot from the Kernel, when you start from the OS 9 cd, the boot ROM changes back to it's OS 9 instructions.

4) Should all else fail, the hacker comunity is still strong, expect to see unofficial patches to extend the beta period.


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