# whats up with the GIMP???



## BitWit (Feb 6, 2003)

So I've been using OS9 apps for YEARS in the Graphics Industry. I'm a confirmed GURU in Illustrator and Photoshop. I got OS X for my Firewire Powerbook on a Lark, and Im hunting down all the free apps I can get. I go to the GIMP site and find the links to macgimp.org, where you have to BUY the damn thing!? Come on, now, can't I just make my own "build"? (by the way, does that entail using the "developers tools"?).

So I'm new to this OS-X unix environment, but one of the resons I gave it a try was to save cash, and to eliminate the warez guilt you get from "borowing" a copy of a program. I though *Nix was an open source environment, is MacOSX the exception???


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## MikeXpop (Feb 6, 2003)

Well, Gimp is a unix program for an xfree86 interface. so you're going to have to get one, either x11 (http://apple.com/osx/x11) or XDarwin. Then you'll have to download a build on Gimp for the mac. This is available for free, though I can't give you a link. Don't bother with www.macgimp.com for though.


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## symphonix (Feb 6, 2003)

MacGimp are a commercial distribution of Gimp, kind of like RedHat is a commercial distribution of Linux.
I recommend you install Apple's X11 client, then install Fink and FinkCommander. You can then use FinkCommander to automatically download, patch and compile the Gimp from source.
Once done, you can run "gimp" from the X11 terminal, and add it to your X11 applications menu.


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## BitWit (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks for the quick reply!

What is X11 and DarwinX? are they other interfaces like the Finder or Aqua?? After I get it all installed, is it going to be more trouble to open an image than just using Photoshop in the OS9 layer instead?


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## dlloyd (Feb 6, 2003)

X11 is a server for the XWindows interface. XWindows is the de-facto standard for creating a User Interface for *nix applications. To use the server, you must have something called a Windows Manager. Apple's X11 comes with one of these called Quartz WM. This one is special because it does use Quartz, the underlying display engine that drive OS X. What this means is that when using X11 the XWindows applications can co-exist with Aqua applications. You don't have to run the XWindows server in Full Screen mode. You can even minimize the XWindows applications to the dock when using X11.
Since OS X is based on Unix, all you need is to somehow get access far enough into the Operating System, and then you can run these XWindows applications.
    Before Apple released X11, most people who wanted to run XWindows applications used a server called X-Free86. However, I have heard that the Apple server is quite a bit faster that X-Free.
    Another thing you have probably heard about is Fink. This is a command line application that will install the XWindows application that you want, as well as any necessary libraries to make it work.
    Fink Commander is a Cocoa application front for Fink, for if you don't like messing around in the Terminal.
    GNOME and KDG are both XWindows server desktops, I haven't tried either yet, but I hear that are both pretty good.

Any other questions, please feel free to ask!


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## BitWit (Feb 6, 2003)

Wow this is getting interesting.

Ok, I've installed X11 (uhh, gee that was easy). Now I'm going to go for Fink Commander...

Thanks for all the help, its sinking in...but expect a few more questions soon.


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## dlloyd (Feb 6, 2003)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you must install Fink before you install Fink Commander.
To get Fink you recognize X11, you must also run the command 'system-xfree86' from Fink. In case that confuses you (and let me tell you, it had me stumped for a few days), this command does NOT install X-Free86, it simply checks to see if you have some sort of XWindows server installed.
Be sure that before you get Fink, you also install Apple's X11 SDK, I believe this has some libraries that Fink needs to run. You can get this from Here (link to file). 

Also check out btoneill's X11 FAQ, it may have info that will help you get started.
http://www.misplaced.net/fom/X11/ 

By the way, the other XWindows desktop is _KDE_, not KDG. I made a mistake


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## BitWit (Feb 6, 2003)

> Also check out btoneill's X11 FAQ


Ahh, now that looks like what I need. Thanks Again!


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## dlloyd (Feb 6, 2003)

Yes, that was what I needed too, I hadn't a clue when I started. It took me almost a week of trial and error to get mine set up. Of couse, then that FAQ showed up the next day...
Oh well.


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## BitWit (Feb 6, 2003)

Well, I've got fink and fink commander installed, but I think I messed up on the 'binary' vs. 'source' part...I have no idea what is better for me, I just want stable apps, sooner, without any worry over editing the source. If I botched that part, is it ok to re-install? I'm going to give it a rest for tonight...I've absorbed so much today.


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## dlloyd (Feb 7, 2003)

Well, I'm afriad I really don't know that much about that stuff. I have just been telling you what I know so far. I don't remember anything about Binary or Source when I installed it, but I would have a look at the documentation on the Finkweb site.

Fink Help

For this kind of thing, you would probably be better off posting on the Unix board.


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## dlloyd (Feb 7, 2003)

Just had a look on the Fink site, make sure you have got the right version of Fink for your Operating System version.
It's all on this page, but let me just tell you that you must have the Apple Developer's Tools installed to make Fink work.


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

Well, I got to the shell part of sudo dselect and then the instructions say to "pick the package you want to install" and theres like 9 packages there, and I have no idea what they were. I dont think I actually installed any of them.

Soooo for my first try, I'm going to build something small like FreeWRL, a vrml viewer. It should get me feet wet enough to know if Im ready.

The fact that its all a memory to you is good news to me. "Set it and Forget it" HeeHee! I'm just greedy for the freebies. An end user with a conscience...I really want to avoid warez all together on my OSX system! It's a chance to make a clean start. 

Thanks dlloyd for pointing me to the right souces!


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## dlloyd (Feb 7, 2003)

Okay, try opening Fink, not Fink Commander. Then type 'install gimp' (with out quotes). This should download and install the GIMP, and then you can just type gimp in the X11 shell, and is will open the GIMP. It worked for me anyway.

EDIT, strange, it's not working anymore. I wonder... I'll have to look into this


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

Hmmm. Fink Commander is in my Applications folder, I have a sw directory full of stuff, but I cant find the actual "Fink" executable...


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

OK, so I opened terminal and typed fink... and voila.
But when I typed 'install gimp' it just gave me the install options...

maybe if I typed 'install http://...(path to gimp online)' that would work?


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## btoneill (Feb 7, 2003)

You can also skip all the stuff with fink if you only want gimp installed and grab the gimp package built by Apple. The package is located at http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/en/x11.php. Uses standard Apple packages for install. Also make sure if you're using fink you need to install the X11 SDK from Apple's site, and then install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 tells fink that you have Apple's X11 installed, but it won't install unless if finds that files that are installed by the X11 SDK.

Brian


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

> and then install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 tells fink that you have Apple's X11 installed,



Whoa, you lost me there... install what from where? I'll try that build first


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## btoneill (Feb 7, 2003)

Sorry, system-xfree86 is a fink package that basically lets fink know you have X11 installed. fink checks to make sure all software dependencies are met before it lets you install software. For instance, it won't let you install an X11 application if you don't have X11 installed. the system-xfree86 package basically just tells fink that you have installed your own version of X11 and not the one that you can install via the fink distribution. "fink install system-xfree86" will install that for you. 

Brian


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

OK, so my steps would be:
First install the X11 develoeper package,
then from the Terminal "fink install system-xfree86"

On another note, I went to the opendarwin.org projects page and grabbed gtk and vim to try it out. They both seemed to install, but typing vim in the terminal yeilded no results.


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## btoneill (Feb 7, 2003)

opendarwin packages install into /usr/local/bin, so try /usr/local/bin/vim

Brian


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

Hey, it works!


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

Well, VIM seemed to be working as far as the terminal screen... Do I need to start X11 then try again? I've also ran the Gimp installer, but it does not show up in /usr/local/bin/gimp...


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## BitWit (Feb 7, 2003)

OK, so if I use TinkerTool to see invisibles, I can find /usr/local/bin/gimp, but it doesnt work from the terminal command.


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## dlloyd (Feb 7, 2003)

Oh, I just did a long post on how to install the GIMP using Fink, but it appears that you installed the OpenDarwin version instead. In this case, quoting from the OpenDarwin.org website, the command for running the GIMP is '/usr/local/bin/gimp-1.2 --no-shm --no-xshm'
This command must be entered into the X11 application, not the terminal, by the way.

Please let me know if this works for you.


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## edX (Feb 12, 2003)

that's the command for the first launch. after that, /usr/local/bin/gimp-1.2 will do it. at least it did for me.


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## dlloyd (Feb 13, 2003)

Okay, I never used that version, so I wouldn't know!


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## BitWit (Feb 14, 2003)

Well, I've been happily twiddling with my new fink install of GIMP and I've got it tweaked a little and cleaned up alot, but I cant help but notice the half a gig of usr/ on my drive from an install of the openDarwin install I tried.

There is another running version of GIMP in my usr/ file (and vim as well). What do I do to get rid of these things? Does the usr file contain my X11 and quartz-wm or is it another copy, too that I already have in sw.

Just wondering how to uninstall darwinports, as thier FAQ is focused on experienced developers, and hardly about users.


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## edX (Feb 14, 2003)

yea, i seem to have 2 seperate gimps as well. the fink install works despite all these exceptions for things not found while the opendarwin one launches perfectly but now won't display the pics properly. they are just black, or maybe black with some bits of color static in a few places. how to get rid of the useless parts would be nice to know.


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## edX (Feb 15, 2003)

ok, after using tinkertool to show my hidden files, i removed the .gimp-1.2 from my home folder. then when i started from the fink install it went thru the gtk interface builder all over again and now it launches flawlessly. and the original open darwin gimp folder is in fact empty and seems to point to the fink install. i'm pretty sure i don't have 2 copies and that the one i wanted to work is now fine.


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## BitWit (Feb 15, 2003)

If you have installed a .mpkg of GIMP (such as the darwinports one from opendarwin.org) _and_ a fink install of gimp, and you want to get rid of the .mpkg, here is a link to an application called OSXPM  that will remove installed pkg's. Ironically, this little app is also a mpkg...and it installs into the Utilities folder.

I got my ~400MB back after I used it to remove gimp.mpkg, and my fink 'sw/' gimp still works fine!


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