# Help with a good school



## Inline_guy (Aug 14, 2002)

Not sure if I posted this in the right place, but I am going back to school (after going to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh).  I am going to major in computer science as I want to program and just get really involved in the computer industry now.  So my question (since most of you people seem so darn smart) what is a good school.  Not the best, because I might not get in.  But I want a good school that will give me a great computer science education.  My first choice of location would be Philadelphia.  So if you know any or have any suggestion (about anything really I'm not pickie) then please drop a post.


Thank You

Matthew


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## Da_iMac_Daddy (Sep 4, 2002)

WooHoo to this post. I'm a senior in High School and I'm looking for a good school where I can actually learn. I love Pittsburgh and I'm only a few hours from Philly, I would love to go to college in Philly. If no one has any suggestions I'm gonna head over to google to find out more, I'll post here about it if no one else does.


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## fddi1 (Sep 4, 2002)

Since you are in Pittsburgh, CMU's computer science is really good.  U. Pitt. is not too bad either, but as you probably know, they are not cheap.


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## btoneill (Sep 4, 2002)

To be honest, I really think very little of comp sci programs, especially if you want to be a programmer. For the most part you'll learn how to write bad code using bad practices taught by bad professors and TA's that can't speak english. 95% of comp sci professors are still living in the 70 and 80's for computer theory. The real world of programming changes way to fast for the schools to even think of keeping up to speed. If you really want to learn to program, take a few intro programming courses to get a simple background into the working of the languages, and learn to program on your own. Alot of comp sci isn't even programming, but math and theory. 

Also, this leads me to my biggest grip with comp sci programs, you can not, I repeat, can not teach someone how to be a programmer. You can teach people the languages to use, but thats it. Writing the code is the easy part of programming, it's figuring out the how to solve the problem using the code thats the hard part. Just because someone writes a program that compiles and gets straight A's in a compsci program doesn't mean the person can code their way out of a wet paper bag without the solution being given to them as an assignment on a sheet of paper. Ofcourse, this isn't to say having a compsci degree won't help you get a job, if you have no experience, it's the only real way right now to get your foot in the door. But, as long as it's a real school, where really doesn't matter as they can only teach you a language, and you basically learn it from a book anyways. 

Always remember, a programmer is just a creative problem solver who happens to know a computer language. (unless they work for microsoft where they tend to just be drones out of compsci programs who write code that sometimes compiles)

Ofcourse, these are my views, and mine alone, unless you agree, then they are our views 

Brian


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## Trip (Sep 4, 2002)

Seattle has a great school for programmers. I was doing research last year on which College/University I'd be interested in for doing creative design, I also did a quick search for computer programmers, and web design. Seattle placed within the top 5 of my searches in all three searches.


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## PastaFragoli (Oct 2, 2002)

btoneill , I really want to punch you.  with a friendly intention of knocking some sense into you.

Now, kid, if you have cash go GA Tech or UofM, but if you are cash strapped then go to Michigan Tech University. Check U.S. news pages for school ratings.


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## zots (Oct 4, 2002)

i fully agree with btoneill


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## btoneill (Oct 4, 2002)

If you want to talk about school ratings, I was in comp sci programs at two national universities. One is consistently listed in the top 10 compsci programs in the US (many different lists), the other is consistently in the top 50. I haven't based my judgement on undergraduate csci programs at joe college down the street. That said, I'm talking purely about undergrad programs. With masters/phd, there is alot ofthings that are useful, but purely for learning to program, you don't get a master/phd, which is what this question was all about.

To be honest, some of the best, and most well known programmers out there weren't csci majors, but english/language majors, or ee/me majors.

Brian


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## PastaFragoli (Oct 6, 2002)

"I am going to !major! in computer science as I want to program and just get really involved in the computer industry now."

Well, duh, ee/me majors quite often have to learn HDLs which are heavily based on Descrete Math, DFEQ, and Linear algebra. (www.colorforth.com --good read)These are the three subjects that help you learn quite a lot of simple stuff that helps to write code that is fast, "simple" and HARD to understand. This way you will have your job forever maintaining that code. 
I would say that he can take a shot at programming on his own, but there is such science as statistics. Not very many people get to where they want to be on their own. If he gets a degree he does have a pretty good shot at $45k a year in 10x10ft cubicle. Not the smartest, but not the dumbest of all. I don't see some aerospace agency hiring a dude without a degree(just any). They do judge school performance and involvement. Of course, he might be a genious, but what's is a probability of that happening.
So pretty much a degree is a much better option for direction in life. 


"Alot of comp sci isn't even programming, but math and theory." Ouch, ee's do even more math than comp sci. There is a clear difference between a code written by a comp scientist and a programmer. All in the matter of bloody efficiency and correctness.


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## karavite (Oct 23, 2002)

You might consider a masters degree in Human Computer Interaction (HCI). You get to work with developers on what is often the most fun and interesting part of any system - the UI (sometimes the most complex as well), and they get to do all the laborious coding! The field is really exploding right now, and attracts people with all kinds of backgrounds. Those with a technical and HCI background are far more capable of realizing and creating effective new UIs. CMU has a really good program in this or you could check out University of Michigan's School of Information. Good luck!


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