# Attitudes of Windows vs. Mac users



## rubicon (Dec 9, 2003)

I've been a long-time user of computers from the early 80s: Timex, Commodore, Atari (8- and 16-bit), Mac Classic, and finally settling to PCs because I could afford one in 1988.  Recently I bought a PowerBook to accompany my Windows XP desktop.

For about a year I've been visiting a Windows-centric community forum and more recently, macosx.com.  I've noticed a few differences between the user communities:

-- Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology

-- Mac users see their Apple technology as the underdog, patiently waiting for Windows users to discover the benefits of a Mac

-- Windows users are cynical and resigned; if new software doesn't work perfectly out of the box they bad-mouth it; same goes for any technology they used a couple of times and couldn't get to work (after all, they are experts!)

-- Mac users are optimisitic and upbeat; if they can't get new software/hardware to work, they move on - no bitching about it; nor do Mac users blast other technology that isn't a Mac

-- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what

Hmm, maybe this has more to do with the biological age of the message poster than it does with the computer they're using.

Anyone have any thoughts?


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## mpbnl8182 (Dec 9, 2003)

I wouldn't say that PC users are more computer-savvy, maybe just the people that will join a Windows/PC forum are.  When you buy a Dell, you don't feel like you join a community, but you feel that way when you buy a Mac.  I've used both systems, each has its advantages and drawbacks, but for what I do, I love my iBook.  

I've also seen many Mac users blast Windows (in my opinion, rightfully so.  The only way too keep a Win system stable is to never have it hooked up to the internet.)  I have no issues with the PC platform, I just find Windows to be far less elegant than OS X (and even 9 at times).

I would say that your point about software is correct.  We have plenty of places to go where people will help us set up our software if it isn't working (ie macosx.com), but if you go to a PC forum you usually get RTFM, helpful eh?  However, I've found linux folks to be extremely helpful.

Well, that's my 2 cents, enjoy your PowerBook.

MP


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## RacerX (Dec 9, 2003)

rubicon said:
			
		

> -- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what



Close minded usually refers to those who are unwilling to try other things. There are very few (if any) Mac users who have not used Windows in some form or another. Many have tried a number of different operating systems. 

On the other hand, many (most) Windows users aren't even aware of other operating systems and even when they are, they haven't actually tried any.

At least Mac users are speaking from a position of knowledge and experience.



> -- Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology



Funny, most technologies find there way to the PC platform after being introduced in other platforms first. And usually the technology is implemented very poorly with Windows. I say that as I am on my way to trouble shoot a problem with an 802.11b card for a _technically-savvy_ Windows user even though I have non-_technically-savvy_ Mac using clients who have installed 802.11b cards without any problems (or needing my assistance).

One of the things I have notice about PC users (and even former PC users) is the fact that they reinstall their software quite a lot. I have Macs, Suns and SGIs with installations that are years old and still running fine.

Throwing in the towel when a problem comes up is anything but being _technically-savvy_. If you didn't find a solution the first time, then the problem is most likely going to come back again later on.

Also, I have notice that the service person to user ratio on the Windows side is much higher than it is for any other platform. If Windows users are so _technically-savvy_, then how are all these service people making a living?


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## bobw (Dec 9, 2003)

*-- Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology*

This helps them keep their machines running, almost as much as a Mac does without any help, for a novice.

*-- Mac users see their Apple technology as the underdog, patiently waiting for Windows users to discover the benefits of a Mac*

This is definitely not true. Most Mac users see their machines as superior to a PC, and would like PC users to discover that.

*-- Windows users are cynical and resigned; if new software doesn't work perfectly out of the box they bad-mouth it; same goes for any technology they used a couple of times and couldn't get to work (after all, they are experts!)*

This can also be said for a lot of Mac users.

*-- Mac users are optimisitic and upbeat; if they can't get new software/hardware to work, they move on - no bitching about it; nor do Mac users blast other technology that isn't a Mac*

Obliviously, you haven't been around Mac users very long 

*- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what*

Some are, but I think most aren't and know that some things do better on a Mac, some do better on a PC.

Nope, I got no thoughts on this matter.


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## Giaguara (Dec 9, 2003)

Macs non-tech savvy and closed minded? I think that's quite far from what applies to those mac (OS X) users that came to Macs after looking for The Operating System .. after trying windows, Linux, *BSD, anything that you could find that would run on your machine ... maaaaaybe you had to learn how to make something run, how to fix errors an average xp (l)user never thought would exist ... then, if one day OS X was the one that suited most to your needs, why not to use it?

A non-tech-savvy mac user does not touch the terminal, hopefully. When something does not work, I start fixing it from the terminal ...


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## symphonix (Dec 9, 2003)

> - Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology.



I'd disagree on this point, if only from my own experience. I'm a helpdesk professional supporting PCs, Mainframe and Unix systems, and the only Mac Users I've ever known have all been either computing professionals or designers. Whereas I talk to around 70 Windows users a day in my work, and have my doubts about their technical savvy.



> Mac users see their Apple technology as the underdog, patiently waiting for Windows users to discover the benefits of a Mac.



Well, yeah. Apple are underdogs. But I don't suffer the delusion that Apple will ever take over from Windows. Or that Windows users will ever learn anything.



> Windows users are cynical and resigned; if new software doesn't work perfectly out of the box they bad-mouth it; same goes for any technology they used a couple of times and couldn't get to work (after all, they are experts!)



This is true of Mac users as well, just read the comments for any program on Version-Tracker for the proof. In my experience, it is the Windows users who are more likely to just shrug and say 'ah, well' when a new $100 product fails to work for them.



> -- Mac users are optimisitic and upbeat; if they can't get new software/hardware to work, they move on - no bitching about it; nor do Mac users blast other technology that isn't a Mac.



Err, no. I'll disagree outright on that one. Apple users ALWAYS complain if something fails to work. They ALWAYS expect their repairs to be done under warranty. And if a company lets them down, they tend to abandon that company for a long time.



> On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what.



Your point being?


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## Trillian (Dec 9, 2003)

-- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what

_I'll be honest when i answer that; I very much prefer linux over mac. I love the fact that you can costomize the stuffing out of it, and make it yours. Plus it is open source, and also free!_

 Hmm, maybe this has more to do with the biological age of the message poster than it does with the computer they're using.

_I'm 14! what is THAT supposed to mean?  _


Post Script
__________

Can you give me a link to a windows fourm? I have a question I'd like answered conserning .ico files.


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## symphonix (Dec 9, 2003)

You can pose it here, its got to be worth a shot 

Just on a side note to this topic, it seems to me that Mac users are far more likely than Windows users to respect the copyright of software makers. I remember reading a statistic that the average Mac user owned around 13 legitimate software titles, while the average PC user had paid for only 5.

To me, the biggest difference is that when you buy a Mac, you know that Apple HAS to take responsibility for it. If you buy a PC, then find something doesn't work, you'll find that the suppliers and developers all tend to push the responsibility onto each-other.


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## Muzgal (Dec 9, 2003)

RacerX said:
			
		

> Throwing in the towel when a problem comes up is anything but being _technically-savvy_. If you didn't find a solution the first time, then the problem is most likely going to come back again later on.



I agree with that entirely, I have only once reinstalled system software as a solution to a problem. (well actually twice, the other time was on an original PPC Performa were the printer port wasn't working. Oddly that solved the problem...)


			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology


I think that is true, in that they have a wider knowledge of hardware. I would say that is because many of the people who would be attracted to PC forums are there because they are interested in computers, they like to build them or whatever. If you build your own computer you are going to spend ages fiddling trying to get it work, so you need a wide support network. Plus I think that the people (often) who are attracted to mac forums are artists, or people who use computers, rather than are interested in them for their own ends. I for one am a musician and I know there are many graphic designers, web authors, journalists and etc. who visit these places.
Anyway there is my rambling two penny worth


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## Trillian (Dec 10, 2003)

symphonix said:
			
		

> You can pose it here, its got to be worth a shot


 
Ok... Where dose windows keep all of its syteme .ico files?


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## powermac (Dec 10, 2003)

I agree with mpbnl8182, most Win Peeps are not that savy, those that post on boards, like us here are experienced users. I agree, Mac peeps complain, but they move on. Speaking for me, I feel my Mac is superior to alot of PC crap Frankstein systems. For example, take a PC keyboard, expecially Dell, they are cheap. You could break one in your hand. 
I believe each Platform has its positive and negative points. The Mac has the solutions I need in computing. In my opinion, everything that Apple comes out with ends up on the PC Whipping Post, then they adopt the concept anyway.
Windows is like holding the big crayon in kindergarten. Not really much you can be savy about, in my opinion.


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## kilowatt (Dec 11, 2003)

Just one quick note:

Windows users are not tech-savy. Want proof? They use windows.

--pretentious mac user


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## Arden (Dec 13, 2003)

There are really no generalizations you can make that will cover all users.  The people here range from 14 (or younger) to, well, "advanced in years."   We have everyone from network administrators to graphic and web designers to teachers to students.  Some people know how a microprocessor works while others don't even know what it is.  And you'll likely find a similar spectrum on a Windows board.

However, in general, some generalities do apply.  PC users seem more arrogant on average, more likely to flame the "sub-par minority," as they see us.  Mac users expect more from their computers, partly because they pay more and partly because they get more.  Mac users are more often the creative types while PC users are more often office workers, or laborers, or whatever.

If you'd like a Windows forum, you can try www.windowsbb.com... apparently I was trolling over there, or something.


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## Satcomer (Dec 13, 2003)

<soapbox>
My biggest problem of this whole user vs. argument is internet posting boards. Hear me out out on this. Try to go to most all internet posting boards (except this one because the mods are doing the great job) and just talk about macs. The board soon will be become a windows users troll board. This happens on 99% of all Mac bulletin boards. See MacCentral, IRC, and many others. Unless the mods are almost militant and prevent the troll boarding, I can't imagine how much the mods here have to work to prevent the Windows trolls from poisoning these boards. Thanks macosx mods!  

That's the different between Mac user and Windows users. I have most always used evidence to base my decisions in life and the evidence on the net about Windows users vs Mac users is in black and white posted on the net for all to see. However, the evidence is SO overwhelming, and most people use Windows, most everyone wants to ignore the snide remarks, rude behavior, and general bad attitudes that a lot of the "Window users" (which I believe about only 10% of all Windows users are guilty of this but the Windows base is SO huge it skews the numbers to a perceived higher numbers) on the net. THIS IS THE PROBLEM I see with the "Windows users"! 

Now, I don't dislike, hate the vast majority of "Windows Users". What I am being to hate are the Windows centric Net Retail Businesses. You know what I mean. You know there are many Retail, Banks, etc. sites on the net that return "You must use Windows Explorer X to view this page". That irks me to no end. *How can a business today totally ignore 20 million potential customers?!!!!!!* 
I believe the Mac base is higher than that, but that is another soapbox.

Well, I vote with my wallet! That's why I love Democracy!</soapbox>


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## fryke (Dec 13, 2003)

I think it's true, in General. PC-fora tend to be more technical (because there are more technical problems) than Mac-fora. But that's more or less the same reason why I'm using Macs for work rather than PCs running Windows or Linux: I want to concentrate on the work instead of on the tools. Just one more metaphor: You don't want to repair a car with a tool that keeps you focussed on the tool - you want to concentrate on the car.

I'm a graphics designer and a writer. I don't want to be bugged by Microsoft Word for my writing - I want to concentrate on the _content_. Same with the design. I want to create a book that's nice to look at, nice to touch and that has good-to-read type. Thus I use the tools that work _with_ me instead of against me.

So, while a PC-user might come to PC-fora in order to find help with this or that hardware or software problem, it's more likely that a Mac user will go online to research for a project he or she is actually working on.

Also: Mac users _are_ close-minded. And they DO think the Mac's the best and there is no other. Which effectively, when I _do_ have a problem with my Mac (does happen, yes), leads to fast problem-solving on Mac-fora, because they don't want to hear about long-standing problems.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 13, 2003)

Trillian said:
			
		

> Ok... Where dose windows keep all of its syteme .ico files?





Spread across LOADS and LOADS of DLL's and Exe's... there's no common place for them. Most system ones are in Shell32.dll, but then there are many more like mydocs.dll, and control panel ones being in all the .cpl files ... its hard work modding all this - I don't miss it.


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## Trillian (Dec 14, 2003)

Figures. Mac and *nix keep them all in a centeral place. Microsoft just has to make things difficult.  I don't suppose there is anything like candybar for windose?


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## guapagirl (Dec 14, 2003)

well I s'pose macs do appeal to dummies ...I mean I use one, cos 1st time I tried using a pooter I couldn't even get it to turn on.  Least with my mac I know where the on switch is!  Also word is so confusing and trying to find files on windows....I give up.  I don't understand WHY anyone would use such a complicated system.  Mac is defo for techphobes as well as fiddlers.  Just don't fiddle with mine


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## powermac (Dec 15, 2003)

My dad been using my old iMac, he is 70. Before that he used an older IBM, trying to teach him on that was difficult. When I bought my PowerMac G4, I gave him my iMac. He quickly caught on, easier than he did on windows. Now, he is a savvy user, he makes spreadsheets, using templates for recipes, emails, researchers on the internet, etc. Many of us, younger generation, could use windows, for a older first time user, the Mac just made more sense to him. I believe the Mac OS is more intuitive, he explores and experiments. On the IBM, he did not, he was consumed with trying to figure out what to do, etc. Just another perspective.


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## Giaguara (Dec 15, 2003)

i love macs because of the *NIX stuff - i am not very comfortable using classic, as i've majorly used X, and classic only when forced to.. but powermac, you make a good point. i want to get a mac to my parents - they are as old as yours. my dad will love mac for its sense, my mum probably will like ichat av (once she will figure it takes 3 clicks to launch ichat av and then talk to me like on phone for free, no international call charges  .. she really hates typing) .. and i can really see them figuring the computer logic so much faster with X than on windows.

.. like my uncle and his wife. they are over 60 as well - and keep saying LINUX is so much easier and makes so much more sense than windows. well, they will sure love OS X once they'll try it, so if Linux makes sense the X will be like the candy they've been looking for..


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## mdnky (Dec 16, 2003)

rubicon said:
			
		

> I've been a long-time user of computers from the early 80s: Timex, Commodore, Atari (8- and 16-bit), Mac Classic, and finally settling to PCs because I could afford one in 1988.  Recently I bought a PowerBook to accompany my Windows XP desktop.


Started on an Apple II at school, family bought a Commadore 64 later on.  Bought a Vic for myself, the the C64 died and family bought a 386DX33 clone.  About two years later they gave that to me, bought a P-100.  Two years later my dad bought each of us some used P-100s, then a few years ago bought himself a P4 1.6ghz.  Brother have newer gateways and I bought my beige G3 in 98 or 99.  We have so many computers in the house at that time it isn't funnny, some were working some not.  Most were sitting in the basement, but 5 were always working...one for each family member.  Of all those, one Mac...mine.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology


I think the opposite is true, they think they're more savy.  The vast majority of Windows users I know have very little knowledge about computers, most have no idea what RAM is.  I sold computers for 3 years with a large chain store in my Area, and can tell you...very few people knew anything about computers and I sold thousands during that time.  Granted most savy ones probably wouldn't buy from a chain, then again maybe they would.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Mac users see their Apple technology as the underdog, patiently waiting for Windows users to discover the benefits of a Mac


Never seen mine as an underdog, and the house currently has a P4 1.6 Dell on XP Home, a Gateway AMD Athalon 1.2 on XP Pro, a Gateway AMD Athalon 750mhz on Win98SE, and by beige g3 300 dt with X 10.1.5...funny thing is mine has the best uptime, crashes the least, and just plain works.  I'm also the only one who messes with Photoshop, AV files, web design, and InDesign.  This is while running MySQL server, Apache, and quite a few other programs in the background.  She works, and she does it with regularity.  Might not be the fastest conputer, but it's stable.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Windows users are cynical and resigned; if new software doesn't work perfectly out of the box they bad-mouth it; same goes for any technology they used a couple of times and couldn't get to work (after all, they are experts!)



-- Mac users are optimisitic and upbeat; if they can't get new software/hardware to work, they move on - no bitching about it; nor do Mac users blast other technology that isn't a Mac[/QUOTE]
Ok...well, that's not really true.  I see users on both sides have similar wishs/wants/rants.  In fact you'll find alot of proof showing the opposite her at these forums, just look around.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what


A Volvo is much safer than an American or Japanese car when you're involved in a wreck.  They also have the highest lifspan expectancy of any automobile, at just over 21 years.  It costs 30% more on average, and has a small market share (sound familiar?).  There's nothing close minded about that, it's just the plain facts.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> Hmm, maybe this has more to do with the biological age of the message poster than it does with the computer they're using.


Maybe, then again most Mac users are college edu-ma-cated, and generally more wealthy than their Windows counterparts.  They also tend to be involved in more technologically advanced careers.  There was actually a study done on this, though I don't have a link.  Someone else have it by chance?


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## mdnky (Dec 16, 2003)

Trillian said:
			
		

> Ok... Where dose windows keep all of its syteme .ico files?



Every and anywhere it decides to in order to make you life a living...well, you get the point.

I sometimes wonder if they don't have a couple of super computers figuring out large alogrimths on how to scatter files all over your hard disk.


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## malexgreen (Dec 30, 2003)

rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Windows users tend to be more technically-savvy regarding computer technology



Those who build their own PC's are probably more savvy than the average Apple user, but those who do not build their own PC's are not. I built my own PC's for the past 4 years, am a Linux user, and came to the Mac to get the best of both worlds: The unix and desktop/multimedia experience in one computer.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Mac users see their Apple technology as the underdog, patiently waiting for Windows users to discover the benefits of a Mac



I don't. The main reason why Apple is 3% Market Share is because there are not that many descriminating computer users in the world. Most people don't see the significance of MacOSX being based on Unix versus MS being based on DOS.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Windows users are cynical and resigned; if new software doesn't work perfectly out of the box they bad-mouth it; same goes for any technology they used a couple of times and couldn't get to work (after all, they are experts!)



Since getting my Mac I haven't run into any errant code, so I can't really speak on this. Actually I find apps for the Mac much better than their Windows counterparts.



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- Mac users are optimisitic and upbeat; if they can't get new software/hardware to work, they move on - no bitching about it; nor do Mac users blast other technology that isn't a Mac



I wouldn't roll over and play dead on dud software. 



			
				rubicon said:
			
		

> -- On the other hand, Mac users are close-minded - the Mac is simply better no matter what



I love computers in general. I've used and continue to use diverse system platforms for different applications. I see benefits and detriments to them all. But one benefit of the Mac now is that it is a consumer desktop computer and cheap Unix workstation rolled into one nice platform. Can't get that anywhere else out of the box, AFAIK.


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## kafene (Dec 30, 2003)

I own many more PC's than Macs. I usually also buy more PC's in general. The difference is, Macs are FUN to use. I'm not talking about playing games on a PC, I'm talking about just the USING of it. It's actually enjoyable. Panther's Expose just knocks me out.

A friend at work told me what he discovered about Windows and Mac users. PC users really LIKE their computers, Mac users LOVE their Macs.

kafene.


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