# Need to go beyond HTML



## wicky (Dec 4, 2003)

After several yrs of being a print designer, I'm REALLY bored. So, I've been building web sites for about 2-3 yrs.... and I love it!! 

I haven't got any real programming experience, other than chopping up bits of HTML (GoLive & Dreamweaver) and Javascript (found on the web), and bullying them into working on my sites. The sites are pretty good, look nice, and all the rest of it, but there's little in the way of extended functionality.

I'd like to know more about "content management" for cross media projects. XML, maybe? .....And the technical stuff - SSI's (for navigation, etc.),  and how to include database's. I want to know all the stuff that will stop me having to render each HTML page seperately.

I've had a look 'round on the web, but everything that I've read has been so full of jargon refering to other web and language technologies, that I don't know where to start.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanx in advance


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## toast (Dec 4, 2003)

www.w3.org

Biblical.


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## mr. k (Dec 4, 2003)

toast speaks with the knowledge of ancient prophets...
And I couldn't tell you how many resources there are about web design just out on the web.  If there is a certain topic you are interested in, just google for it.  The two topics I would recommend to start out with are xhtml and css.  Both are very simple and incredibly powerful ways to program html.


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## uoba (Dec 5, 2003)

There's so much to learn... javascript, php, xhtml, css, xml. As stated by mr. k, start with XHTML and CSS (particularly CSS and how to use it correctly... it'll make you feel at home since your a print designer).

A fantastic free on-line training source is http://www.w3schools.com


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## Pengu (Dec 5, 2003)

If you aren't into the whole learning-on-the web thing (it worked for me, but some people don't like it much) there are several really good (and heaps of mediocre) books on each of the topics listed here (everything from (x)html/css/javascript right up to php, jsp, applets, perl, apache config, databases. in the last 3 years i have learnt a lot computer-wise ( i was a relative novice 4 years ago) including html (currently learning xhtml) css, some javascript, php, mysql, c, java, mysql, access (*shudder*) vb... the one thing that has ALWAYS been the same:
I learnt the stuff MUCH faster, if i was doing it FOR something. to just go out and try to learn a language, i can't do it. but either, knowing what i want, and having to learn how to make what i want (as i did with php/mysql) or enrolling in a formal class and going through an assessment task list and completing projects (i learnt like this for basically everything else, except xhtml & javascript which im picking up slowly) makes it that much easier for me. i would personally suggest php & mysql for "live" data and dB work, because they are both fairly easy to learn, and free to use. jsp/java servlets take forever to configure and java is a language that requires lots of patience, and lots of coffee (maybe thats why they called it java..?)


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## wicky (Dec 5, 2003)

Thank you all _soooo_ much for your input, and the links are very much appreciated, especially "w3schools".... written in very plain english, just the way I like it. =)

I've been using (external) CSS for a little while now, but only to format text in standard HTML pages. XHTML looks a bit more interesting, making cleaner quicker pages, and global changes via CSS. I'm not sure how it relates to the project I've got in mind though.

I've got several little jobs going on a the mo., that require an increasing amount of knowledge on my part. They're all fairly similar, in that I need to manage a variety of products for print and web distribution. The one that's the real driving force though, is sorting out my own publicity material & portfolio (both the website, and physical paper folio).

There's quite a lot of it, and as I wanted to include written details of the briefs, clients, etc. I was thinking of developing a database to use in both print and web incarnations, (hopefully) making the whole thing much more easy to keep up to date. I'd like the website to automatically render pages out of the database via a few simple templates, and at the same time, ideally, I'd like to be able to employ the same database, in the creation of an Adobe InDesign printed portfolio (or a catalogue).

I've heard people talking about XML for repurposing, but as yet I have no idea how that might interface with InDesign (I guess InDesign is a subject for another forum, but it's the cross media aspect that really interests me here).

Pengu, thanks for the tip PHP and MySQL over the others. I'd probably use Filemaker Pro, but presumably this will work with any database?

Thanx again


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## Arden (Dec 13, 2003)

PHP and MySQL are probably the most popular/commonly used programming language and database system for web design, and both are completely free.  If you learn these, you'll have a good handle on web programming.

I know of two techniques for making templates.  One uses Javascript (crappier method, but you don't need PHP intalled) and the other uses PHP (better method, but you obviously do need PHP installed).  Both, however, write into static pages rather than pulling data from a database.  But if you're interested, let me know and I'll share my techniques.


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## Pengu (Dec 13, 2003)

i beleive Filemaker pro does have a server to use it for web-based stuff, and it should work, if FMP is ODBC compliant, but the server would no doubt cost money, whereas mysql is free


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## mdnky (Dec 13, 2003)

I have to agree, you're better off using MySQL for most web based projects.  Extremely fast and stable, it was designed for just that.  It's the most popular online database in the world, and so for a reason.  Simple, free, stable, and it just works.

Another plus is you'll be able to use standard SQL for the most part, and porting to another system like Sybase or Oracle isn't too bad from MySQL.


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## evildan (Dec 15, 2003)

If you like learning online, try VTC. They are a great way to learn a topic from scratch. You actually get to see them programming, etc. It's fun to follow along, while they create pages, etc.

I taught myself php using the VTC on php. They have a wide array of topics to choose from and you can either purchase a topic you're interested in or you may purchase a subscription which gives you access to their entire library of topics.


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## isaac_ho (Dec 28, 2003)

Hi Wicky,

The following resource may be helpful:
Alistapart (http://www.alistapart.org)
Web Standards Project (http://www.webstandards.org)
Eric Meyer's personal web site (http://www.meyerweb.com)
Zeldman's personal web site (http://zeldman.com/)
Molly's personal web site (http://www.molly.com/)
Useit.com (http://www.useit.com)

Some books are good too.

*Don't Make Me Think* by _Steve Krug_
*Eric Meyer on CSS* by _Eric Meyer_
*The Art & Science of Web Design* by _Jeffrey Veen_
*Web Site Usability Hand Book* by _Mark Pearrow_
*Web Site Design Goodies* by _Joe Burns_
*Designing with Web Standards* by _Jeffrey Zeldman_

I'm reading this book:
*Collaborative Web Development* Strategies and Best Practices for Web Team by _Jessica Burdman_

They will give you something out of technical knowledge, but useful too.


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## TommyWillB (Dec 29, 2003)

Arden said:
			
		

> PHP and MySQL are probably the most popular/commonly used programming language and database system for web...


Have you seen  survey results or something that shows this to be a fact?

I didn't know this was the case. 

I'm sure they are the most popular open source and/or free things, but I'd sort of expect Perl/ASP and Oracle/SQL to be the leaders simple because they've been around longer.


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