# Opinions: Drugs



## Da_iMac_Daddy (May 20, 2003)

I don't know if this is breaking any forums rules but I think we should let it go. 

Almost every person I know has tried one drug or another. I would say 99.9% of my friends have smoked pot, and in High School (and College from what I've experienced) it's socially exceptable. Even with harder drugs such as ecstasy, coke, mushrooms, acid, and even prescription drug abuse is getting more frequent (probably the most frequent in my area which is scary). I myself have had plenty of experience with pot, I've tried mushrooms, and I loved the feeling I got from doing ecstasy. Before I ever tried a new drug I did as much research as I could before I finally decided to do them. Certain drugs if used in controlled amounts, I think, can be a good thing. Although I also believe no drug should be used excessively. 

Anyway before I start rambling, what I really wanted was to probe you guys for some of your opinions on the topic.

BTW: I'm excluding alcohol because the OVERWHELMING majority of people I know drink so I don't really care about it. Even some of the parents I know openly except that their kids drink and just try to keep them informed and safe.


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## senne (May 20, 2003)

i did "pot" several times, but i never was addicted to it. I only did it 7 or 8 times, and  i really don't like it.. For the rest i've never tried any other drugs. And i don't smoke. I drink at party's (never in the weekdays, only weekends), yes, i drink a lot and i get drunk sometimes (and often i'm ashamed for it....). I tried to stop drinking for 2 weeks, but not drinking at party's is fckng to hard! So i didn't "accomplished".


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## chemistry_geek (May 20, 2003)

Playing with brain chemistry is a bad thing for people who are ignorant of the dangers of drug useage.  Cocaine changes the brain chemistry PERMANENTLY THE FIRST TIME it is used.  Do a search on Google to read about how cocaine does this (specifically affects DOPA production).  You are almost GUARENTEED to develop some mental illness later in your life after that one-time usage of cocaine.  I would suspect that other illegal drugs do similar actions on the brain.  Trying an illegal drug for recreational purposes that could possibly, and very likely, change the way I perceive and interact with world in which I live scares the hell out of me.  Think twice about drug use, and then think about it again before you give it a try, it could affect your life in many ways you could never imagine.


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## toast (May 20, 2003)

Before studying politics and social science, I was in toxicology, ie. how psychotropic products (drugs) affect your physical and psychological capabilities.

No matter what drug you take, they're all the same: they all handicap some of your senses. Of course some are an obvious danger because they will block some crucial neural transmissions; but even so-called 'soft' drugs do affect domains like memory, emotivity, concentration or general sensitivity and fragility to mental aggression.

chemistry_geek: all drugs permanently affect your brain on the first use. Even bananas affect dopamin distro 

For my own I've been on weed for 6 months (depressed), started smoking cigs and drinking a bit (just for fun) at the same period. I kept on those latter, but totally quitted sh!t.


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## Giaguara (May 20, 2003)

do 'smart' or 'design' drugs count as drugs too? 

i have never tried cocaine because i'm afraid i would like it. since i was 10 and the religious freaks started to lesson in the elementary schools about the drugs, showing transparencies after transparencies "someone is using this sh!t if he has these signs.." (and being so blindly convinced their freaking belief in whatever was better) .. everyone seemed to freak out as i was hyperactive, skinny, had huge pupils .. 

i have casual drinks in the parties, and don't have a high tolerance for alcohol (=get drunk easily if drinking). i don't condamn alcohol, tabacco, weed etc, but if you NEED *whatever substance* to party or to have fun, you have a problem. with a good company a drink can be nice, but if you are unable to have any fun without drinking/smoking/other substances, go to the 12 steps...


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## mrfluffy (May 20, 2003)

I've never done a single (non-medicinal) drug, i can enjoy myself, or depress myself without them. I don't really care what other people do it's their choice, the only thing that pisses me off is when people complain about a hangover like they didnt expect it, or when they use being drunk/stoned as an excuse for a cock-up they made.


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## Giaguara (May 20, 2003)

cocaine.org has interesting points about the history of cocaine. i think as leaves they are ok, but i would not suggest anyone to touch the chemically altered stuff.


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## Gimpy00Wang (May 20, 2003)

Did weed a couple times in high school. Just experiments...enjoyed myself all but once. But, I can't really like putting chems into my body when un-needed so I haven't touched it since. I've never done anything else. I casually drink on occasion (couple times a year). I rarely get drunk.

- G!mpy


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## chemistry_geek (May 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *chemistry_geek: all drugs permanently affect your brain on the first use. Even bananas affect dopamin distro *



Toast,

I'm specifically referring to a recent study that has linked cocaine use with depression later in life (sorry, I don't have time right now to find the links).  The new study shows evidence that structures deep inside the brain, i.e. hippocampus, sustain permanent damage associated with one-time cocaine useage.  Depression is also correlated with a malfunctioning frontal lobe, which is used for abstract thinking, decision making, judgement, etc...  So it would appear that there is more damage done than just to the hippocampus.  Though more research is needed to support my argument, I think that there may more damage done to the brain from these illegal drugs than what is obviously found from the current studies.  Just trying cocaine one time does the permanent damage to which I'm referring.  After trying cocaine, you are changed forever.  The emotions you experience and decisions you make AFTER trying cocaine could have drastic consequences for the remainder of your life.


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## chevy (May 20, 2003)

I use only one drug, daily... more powerful that any other: sex !


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## Ugg (May 20, 2003)

Pot never did much for me, just made me stupid and paranoid and giggly.  I've never tried anything else although at one point I almost tried mushrooms.  

For me, alcohol has always provided whatever "release" I've needed.  In college I got a fair amount of flack for not being more adventuresome.

To be honest, I dislike being around people on drugs.  Their behaviour is just too freaky, even if its just pot.


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## ebolag4 (May 20, 2003)

I guess my take on it is that drugs (regardless of what type you're talking about) should be regulated and supervised. I'm totally against the use of ANY type of drug inappropriately, but I'm not one of those who think that any drug that has been illegal can never be used beneficially.

I'm for the legalizing of drugs like marijuana, but under the exact same conditions as every other drug on the market. Some may say that is draconian, but it sure does bring everything under better control.

One of the main problems with any drug is ABUSE of that drug. Just about anything used properly, in moderation, and under supervision can be safe. Conversely, just about anything used improperly, in excess, and without supervision can be deadly (to yourself or others).

Marijuana, alcohol, caffiene, tylenol, you name it. They are all substances that can be used to heal or harm. The main problem with illegal, illicit drugs is that they haven't been tested in a lab. When you smoke a joint or snort a line, how many milligrams are you getting? Are you getting "one dose" or fifteen? Who processed the drug? Did they use sterile methods in the processing? What is the quality of the drug? Is it fresh or old? Has a doctor determined if the use of the drug is safe for you or not? Does the drug interact with anything else you are taking?

The same questions we would ask about the drugs we buy over-the-counter or from a pharmacy need to be asked about any other substance we put in our bodies.

Having said all that, I personally am firmly against the use of any illegal (meaning non-approved by the government) drug. If for no other reason than for the safety of ourselves and those around us. This means I am also firmly against the improper use of a drug that is legal, for the same reasons.


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## Arden (May 20, 2003)

I am stiffly anti-drugs (besides legal, safe, tested prescription drugs), and the only activity I condone is moderate drinking for those of the appropriate age.  Many people I know smoke cigarettes or pot, and I just feel there's no point.  No point in getting addicted to some expensive, dangerous substance that can end up controlling your life.  That's not to mention the shit they do to your body.  I just feel life is too precious to waste putting harmful substances into one's body.


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## wdw_ (May 20, 2003)

I tried pot for the first time about a month ago. I really enjoyed it and will probably do it again. The most alchohol I've ever had at at one time is a Mike's Hard Lemonade. And I've smoked a cigarettes. I didn't hate it, but the medical risks and costs are too high for me to become a smoker.

I think pot is okay in moderation and I think alcohol and cigarettes are bad for people.


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## Arden (May 20, 2003)

FYI:  Pot is worse than cigarettes, medically speaking.

You should probably look up the health factors involved before trying it again if you think pot (an illegal substance) is okay and cigarettes (a legal drug) are bad.


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## toast (May 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *I use only one drug, daily... more powerful that any other: sex ! *



You're damn right, chevy. This type of drug_(on the left) I'll never quit.   

My only other drugs are cigarettes (half a pack a day, one pack and a half if exams), alcohol (moderate during the week, heavy fun during parties) and coffee, cold, black coffee. They all have their usage:

cigs - nerves
drink - rejoice
coffee - stay awake


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## Da_iMac_Daddy (May 20, 2003)

OK saying pot is worse than cigarettes. Come on now. Cigarettes (nicotine and the other stuff shoved in there to make it more addictive) really are, in my opinion, the worst form of a drug there is. They are in my opinion THE most addictive thing I have ever tried. I'm still trying to quit. 

Point being that from what I have seen personally, pot only seems to form a mental addiction (I know all addiction is in some way or another mental but most also have physical properties to them too). When I quit smoking pot regularly, I just said to myself this is impairing your work in school and you need to quit and I did easy as that. Now I only smoke pot about once a month and that's up from about once every 4 months. Keep in mind I am saying from my own experience and observations.

 Now if a joint has 4 times as many chemicals as a cigarette so what? If I were to smoke a joint I wouldn't light up another one an hour later. I probably wouldn't light up for the rest of the week. Now a cigarette on the other hand becomes severely addictive. At one point I was smoking almost a pack every two days so that's 10 cigarettes a day. 10/4=2.5, so I would have to smoke two and a half joints a day to equal how many chemicals I put in my body with those cigarettes. I don't know about you guys but about 4 hits of a joint gets me high so I don't think I would be doing that. Also you have to factor in that I would at most smoke a joint one or two days out of the week, but I would and do  smoke everyday (I've cut it down to about 4 a day 2 if I'm lucky). So in no way can you convince me that smoking pot is worse for you than cigarettes.

By the way I am wholly against the use of Cocaine, and Heroine. I have family that has had experience with these drugs and talking with her makes me understand why they are two of the most dangerous drugs.


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## adambyte (May 20, 2003)

I've never tried any illegal drugs, though I've had the opportunity to. I don't really feel there's much of a point. And no under-age drinking for me, either.... when I come of age, I'll probably drink a little, socially, but that's it.

But I am FIRMLY against the consumption of Caffine... and, more specifically, Coffee to "keep me going/awake/alive." 

I've seen Coffee wreck too many lives. Coffee is a dangerous and expensive drug that much of the US is hooked on. Worse, yet, it is freely distributed at offices!

Note: I am half joking... but only half... this country has an obsession with coffee as a means to support you throughout your day. It is horrible nutritionally, and is basically just a caffine rush. God forbid we try to just have a decent diet and snack on Granola bars and have an apple a day, eh?


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## wdw_ (May 20, 2003)

I had one cigarette and I was wanting another for like a week after. I almost stole a pack from this lady I know. I smoked pot and said to myself, "it'd be nice to do that again someday". I haven't had any cravings. There have been a few time I've hoped I'd do it, but the feeling was more like wanting to go see a movie. I wouldn't have to, but it'd be nice.

OMG. I forgot about caffenee. I am sooooooo000OOO000oo adicted to caffene. I have at least 2 Diet cokes a day. If I had my way I'd be drinking it constantly. I usually fall asleep around 4AM and wake up at 10AM. Then I grab a Diet Coke to stay awake. Then I need another and another.

PS. have you noticed how many sizes of drink there are? There's the 6oz can, 12oz can, 20oz bottle, 1 liter bottle, 2 liter bottle and 3 liter bottle. All we need is the tall can and the keg and we'd be set.


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## Giaguara (May 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chemistry_geek _
> *Toast,
> 
> I'm specifically referring to a recent study that has linked cocaine use with depression later in life (sorry, I don't have time right now to find the links).  The new study shows evidence that structures deep inside the brain, i.e. hippocampus, sustain permanent damage associated with one-time cocaine useage.  Depression is also correlated with a malfunctioning frontal lobe, which is used for abstract thinking, decision making, judgement, etc...  So it would appear that there is more damage done than just to the hippocampus.  Though more research is needed to support my argument, I think that there may more damage done to the brain from these illegal drugs than what is obviously found from the current studies.  Just trying cocaine one time does the permanent damage to which I'm referring.  After trying cocaine, you are changed forever.  The emotions you experience and decisions you make AFTER trying cocaine could have drastic consequences for the remainder of your life. *



So wait, if i have had some sort of depression since forever, and a strong fear of doctors and psycos of any kind since i was born (and i really dont want to explain all the dirty details of after), what would you suggest as an antidote? i have never tried cocaine or anything not prescribed to me & stronger than weed... i don't want to try any pills or anything chemical. no pill is a solution. grabbing the past (due to whatever) seems to offer no weirdnesses in this live... ::alien::


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## scruffy (May 20, 2003)

Saying that drugs hurt/kill/heal/whatever is silly.  A baggy of cocaine never jumped up off a table and throttled anyone.  People's _use of drugs_ is what does it.

When asking whether tobacco kills or saves lives:
- habitual use of medium or large quantities of highly processed, high nicotine tobacco has killed thousands (recreational cigarette smoking).
- infrequent ritualistic use of small quantities of natural, low nicotine tobacco has saved thousands of lives (wars ended or avoided through use of the peace pipe).

So, when comparing tobacco to marijuana, what I'm really comparing is _the use_ of each, according to my own assumptions about what constitutes typical use.  I could compare moderate use of each - one 1/2 gram joint shared among two or three people, three or four times a month vs. an entire cigarette consumed by one person, 8-10 times a day - and conclude tobacco is far worse.

Or I could compare chronic heavy use of each - a couple of grams of pot a day, vs. a pack of cigarettes a day (what's that, about 80-100 grams of tobacco?) - and come to a much more questionable conclusion.

Or I could compare the two gram for gram - which would be very stupid, because nobody ever smokes 100 grams of pot a day, and barely anyone smokes 2 grams of tobacco a month spread out over several sessions - I'd be comparing nonsensical data.

(or, I could consider that some people don't smoke pot at all, they eat it in brownies or omelettes or whatever, and so avoid lung damage altogether, or or or...)

All that being said, when it comes to the _overall_ effects on society, I consider that the harm done by prohibition far far outweighs the harm done by drugs.  And that goes for any drugs, from legals like booze to soft illegals like pot, to hard drugs like heroin.

Since we seem to be in a confessional mood today, here's my narcotic curriculum vitae (narcoticum vitae?)
- I smoked a fair amount of pot (and hashish, and cannabis oil) through high school (they call it high school for a reason), stayed off it for a year or two, and now use it in moderation.
- I have a glass of beer or wine nearly every day with supper, and occasionally a few more drinks than that.  I brew most of my own booze, since I enjoy brewing, and the commercial stuff costs more than it's worth to me.
- I drink more coffee than I should.  Sometimes a little more, when I was at school it was far too much...
- I occasionally smoke tobacco on a narghile (a water pipe; the tobacco is marinated in molasses and lit with charcoal)
- I've used LSD and mushrooms.  I consider them something valuable, to be taken rarely and with respect.


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## wdw_ (May 20, 2003)

Who here knows Ricky. He moderates this forum. We talk a couple times a week via AIM. Well, he read this thread and we just had a talk. Because I smoked pot ONCE he has blocked me from his buddy list. He does not wish to talk to me anymore. He said it was my choice. He said either I never smoke anything ever again, or we never never speak again. He was nice about it, but I couldn't believe that someone I consider more an acquaintance than friend was asking me to make a choice like that. Since he does moderate this forum he could censor or even delete this post, but I just want to ask if you all think this is fair.


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## Ricky (May 20, 2003)

The transcript is attached.  

-EDIT-  Figured out that it downloads the attachment as "attachment.php."  Just change "php" on the end of the file name to "txt" to open the file.

Also, I would like to add that I have no intention of modifying anything in this thread, save for the normal site policies (swears and such).  I feel that it's important that people voice their opinions on these matters.


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## wdw_ (May 21, 2003)

Thanks there Rick. Now lets let the masses give their two cents.


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## adambyte (May 21, 2003)

Uh.... Rick..... no offense, but what exactly is the rationale behind ending a friendship because someone does something you don't exactly approve of every once in a while? Are you afraid of guilt by association? I may not agree with 100% of the things my friend does, but that doesn't make us any less in the way of friends....


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## Ricky (May 21, 2003)

Thanks for asking, Adambyte.  Let me just take this time out to be perfectly clear.  First of all, and I should have said this before, I do not condone illegal use of -any- drug.  I was raised to not tolerate it, and it is against my belief system for me to be associated with anyone who abuses a drug or illegally uses a drug.  Fear of influence has caused this, as well as a bit of guilt by association.

And just because I don't agree with something someone does does not mean that I am in any way less a friend of them.  Of course, if they repeatedly do things I do not agree with/condone, I tend to simply move on without them.  Drugs are a different matter, though.

wdw_ is a good person, and I know this.  However, with actions come consequences.  Using a drug illegally comes with the consequence/risk of being arrested, losing/badly injuring friendships, losing priveliges, and losing trust, particularly from parents, not to mention risks to your health and your body.  Many drugs, if thoroughly abused, can leave you dead.  Marijuana does not do this, however, dumbing down your brain cells is not good when you're driving a car or you're with your girlfriend.  Marijuana makes you more likely to make a bad decision, putting not only yourself, but people around you in a bad position.  Alcohol does this as well.

So, I hope that clears up how I feel on the subject.  I hope you understand where I'm coming from now.


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## Arden (May 21, 2003)

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're taking the wrong tactic with the issue.  If I vowed not to associate with anyone I knew smoked marijuana/cigarettes, drank underage, or whatever, I'd have to disassociate myself with at least half the people I know (at least at school).  The way I see it is I don't condone the activity, but it's their bad choices, and there's no point in letting it come between me and them.  I have a strong enough conviction that I will never smoke anything or drink until I'm 21, but that doesn't mean I will ban those who do these from my life.

You described some of the things that can result from taking these drugs... and I say, well those are their bad choices to make, not yours.  Let them destroy their life, dumb down their brain cells, whatever, but don't let it come between your relationships.  If you can stop a bad decision from being made, by all means go ahead, but don't try to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to someone making their own decisions about their own body.

I've given up trying to reason with people about doing stuff and I just accept that they do them.  If someone asks me if I mind if they smoke, however, I will say yes I do, because I don't want to be involved in their bad decision.  If they can not live without a cigarette, though, I will concede reluctantly, especially if there's some way I won't have to smell it.


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## toast (May 21, 2003)

I just read some people are against caffeine... hey, guys, I'm awake from 6:00AM to 2:00AM, I *need* caffeine ! 

My two cents about the Ricky/wdw_ bullfight: don't you both feel stupid ? How old are you ?


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## wdw_ (May 21, 2003)

toast: I'm 16, but I don't feel stupid. Why would you think that?

PS. I'm not against caffene, I'm just a litlle annoyed that it's got such a strong hold on me.


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## toast (May 21, 2003)

This quarrel with Ricky (see transcript) is just completetely absurd. Even if I know you can't do much about it.


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## Giaguara (May 21, 2003)

drugs is only one way to arrive to the destruction. alcohol arrives there too, and is just socially more acceptable. and there are hundreds of others ways that will destruct you as well, cutting yourself, excessive sports, not eating etc. 

have any of you seen Requiem For A Dream? if so, how do you like it? it is one of my favorite movies and i see its strong mesasges ... i like the way it is made, but after seeing it i feel really bad.


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## mrfluffy (May 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *drugs is only one way to arrive to the destruction. alcohol arrives there too, and is just socially more acceptable.*


alcohol is so socially accepted that it's normally not considered a drug (same with tobacco)


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## acidtuch10 (May 21, 2003)

Man this thread is hilarious!

I have tried drugs, probably more than the average person. Do I feel it has affected me personally, professionally or morally? NO.. Through out High school I experimented and then early in my life I experimented more.  If anything I think it has made me a better man, more knowledgeable about others issues, wants and needs.  Also gave me a really good view from both sides.  Instead of the narrow-minded view from one side! 

But now I have quit all the illegal stuff and I settle for Cigs, alcohol and caffeine. Not buy choice but because society says its bad, and because I have had my legs shaved for drug testing for my job.

I dont condone usage of anything. I think we live in a time were freedom of choice dominants, Were all big boys and Girl and should be able to make choices in our life without being criticized for ones actions buy someone who has one way stance on the subject



Just my opinion

acid


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## habilis (May 21, 2003)

I might be one of these people that has dodged the bullet, or maybe I'm just really resilliant. Whatever the case, you guys are a bunch of lightweights.

I haven't done any illegal drugs in about 6 years, or since I got married, but if there was a drug that existed 1998, then I did it, and a whole lot of it. I have no mental stability problems and I'm quite happy with my life and family that I've created.

I've been to the darkest and brightest reaches that drugs can take you. Now I just get high on life, exercise, mountainbiking, sex, and occasional quality whisky buzz and I find it quite rewarding.

I'm not advocating havy drug use, however, drugs, and in particular LSD have opened my mind up to things that no human mind can fathom without it. I realize I'm the exception to the rule that drugs will certainly take control of your life, and destroy it. But I think everybody should trip at least 2 or 3 times in their life, at least take a peek into that door into the universe of infinitesimal understanding and total loss of the ego.


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## chemistry_geek (May 21, 2003)

It's funny how some people would readily modify their neurons permanently, and yet be very reluctant to modify or overclock their CPUs.  OH NO!  I might ruin that!  That would cost me money!  how would I surf the net and check my email?  That costs me my freedom, my way of life.

Habilis, my point earlier in the thread is that later on down the road a few or many years, you might pay the ultimate price for 2 or 3 good trips.  Health care costs in the USA are skyrocketing.  If you don't have a good health insurance plan, are the tax payers supposed to ante up for the cost to treat your mental illness resulting from a good trip 20 or 30 years earlier?


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## chemistry_geek (May 21, 2003)

The ugly truth:

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/news.asp?Id=6376
http://in.news.yahoo.com/030101/139/1zn42.html
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2001/bnlpr030101.htm
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/feb98/nida-03.htm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/NNVol17N4/Chronic.html
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/cocaine/cocaine_media11.shtml
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-02/BNL-Rdbd-2802101.php
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/57/66171.htm?printing=true
http://cocaine.org/reward/pleasure.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/HS_510990.html
http://www.ravesafe.org/drugz/cocaine.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/020219075450.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1414323.stm
http://www.shesinrecovery.com/addiction/cocaineeffects.html
http://www.drugstv.com/LiquidEcstasy.htm
http://www.healingourisland.com/qa_drugfacts.html
http://www.maps.org/media/nytimes9.27.02.html
http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0,1854,546676,00.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/MedAdv/MAs-yr98.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol13N3/Cocaine.html
http://www.schizophrenia.com/newletter/newsl13p2.html
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdm..._lancet_1/1998_mccann_lancet_1_article2.shtml
http://www.pridesurveys.com/main/d_drugfacts.html
http://www.acep.org/1,2886,0.html
http://www.disability.vic.gov.au/ds...oholsmokingotherdrugs_otherdrugs?OpenDocument
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/ecstasy.html
http://www.nzdf.org.nz/update/messages/1090.htm
http://www.kzoo.edu/studev/security/StateofMichiganDrugAlcohol.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/694749.stm
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdm..._lancet_1/1998_mccann_lancet_1_article5.shtml
http://www.councilforprevention.org/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=55
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~jrc3/chudler/mdma.html
http://mdma.net/toxicity/noradrenaline.html
http://www.jcu.edu/judicialaffairs/Policies/Drugs.htm
http://www.univ.trieste.it/~brain/NeuroBiol/Neuroscienze per tutti/mdma.html
http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/whatismeth.htm
http://www.testmagic.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1400
http://www.forreal.org/think/parkinson.asp
http://www.al-qiyamah.org/drumbeat_of_death/links/ecstasy_links_(BBC).pdf
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/092602_hs_ecstacy_brain.html
http://www.maps.org/media/ap9.26.02.html
http://www.ecstacynow.com/ecstacy_facts.html
http://mdma.net/toxicity/damage.html
http://www.hilltoptimes.com/archive/20000928/14.html
http://www.tlu.edu/Campus_information/Residence_Life/drug_alcohol_guidelines.html


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## ebolag4 (May 21, 2003)

Holy Cow!

"alcohol is so socially accepted that it's normally not considered a drug (same with tobacco)" -- mrfluffy

Just because something is socially accepted does not make it automatically safe or morally acceptable. I would hate to live in a world where that was the case.

"We?re all big boys and Girl and should be able to make choices in our life without being criticized for ones actions buy someone who has one way stance on the subject" -- acidtuch10

Are we giving criticism without being willing to accept it? This is all part of freedom. Just as you have free will, others have free speech. Also, criticism can be constructive.

" I'm not advocating havy drug use, however, drugs, and in particular LSD have opened my mind up to things that no human mind can fathom without it" -- habilis

I don't know if I can agree or disagree with this. Since I've never taken anything like LSD (and never will) I can't say anything about the experience. However, as one of the resident religious freaks, I have not found myself wanting for anything as far as experiences in this universe. I have had experiences through prayer, meditation and worship that I feel others cannot fathom until they personally experience it. The real difference is, there has been, and never will be, any adverse physical/mental effects upon me.


"Also gave me a really good view from both sides.  Instead of the narrow-minded view from one side!" -- acidtuch10

I don't want to EVER experience the "other side." Some may feel that I have no right to speak on the subject since I've not taken drugs myself, but I don't agree. Watching my older brother destroy his life, his wife's life and his son's life because of alcohol and marijuana was enough experience for me. Watching my grandmother die from cancer and other problems brought on by decades of smoking was enough for me. Having one of my closests friends committ suicide a couple of weeks ago because of being in an "altered state" when he pulled the trigger was enough for me. Shall I go on? I think my experience speaks for itself.

Also, as someone who has taught school for eight years, I've seen it in the lives of my students. I could line every student up and tell you exactly which students are on drugs or have been drinking. They're not just called "dopes" for nothing.

I know that I and people who share my opinions are a growing minority, but that doesn't mean we're wrong. It just means the rest of the world is stupid, and too drugged up to know any better. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

If anyone is offended by anything I've said, I apologize in advance, but I don't take it back. I've meant every word!


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## Arden (May 21, 2003)

[Kick dead horse] Back to the tobacco/marijuana issue:

Neither are good for your body.  By smoking either, you put dangerous chemicals into your body and lungs, increasing the risk of contracting cancer, emphysema, or something else.  Both create an undesirable atmosphere and pollute the environment.

Cigarettes will eventually kill you.  People who smoke are addicted from the nicotine, and they often smoke many packs a day.  However, cigarettes are legal because they do not significantly alter your current state of mind like marijuana.  Weed may not kill you, but it makes you stupid.  The THC in weed affects your hippocampus, which disrupts your learning and memory processes, causing you to become stupid.  Weed is also a narcotic from the high it gives you, so it is illegal.

Now I know no one has been recorded as dying from smoking weed, but why is that?  People die from cigarettes because they smoke constantly, year after year, until they have no lungs left or they are eaten by cancer.  Nobody smokes marijuana in nearly the quantity of cigarettes, so you don't get the same amounts of chemicals from marijuana and tobacco, even though marijuana smoke contains more chemicals than tobacco smoke.  If you smoked 5 joints every day, you would die a lot sooner than if you smoked 5 cigarettes every day.  Therefore, just because no one dies from marijuana does not mean that it won't kill you. [/Kick dead horse]


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## habilis (May 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chemistry_geek _
> Habilis, my point earlier in the thread is that later on down the road a few or many years, you might pay the ultimate price for 2 or 3 good trips.  Health care costs in the USA are skyrocketing.  If you don't have a good health insurance plan, are the tax payers supposed to ante up for the cost to treat your mental illness resulting from a good trip 20 or 30 years earlier?



Oh c'mon now Chem, how many acid-tripping hippies doomed lives are we paying for right now? Is there an epidemic out there of past acid trippers lives ruined? There isn't. Anyway, don't worry about me suckin up tax dollars, I have full insurance coverage and plenty of cash to pay for my own doomed future.


::alien::


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## habilis (May 21, 2003)

on a second note, long term stress might actually do the same or worse damage, and kill you early.


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## toast (May 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *Cigarettes will eventually kill you.  People who smoke are addicted from the nicotine, and they often smoke many packs a day.  However, cigarettes are legal because they do not significantly alter your current state of mind like marijuana*



Being a half-a-pack-per-day smoker (brand: Benson & Hedges American Blend), I back up every single word of this passage.


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## acidtuch10 (May 21, 2003)

ebolag4 ~ you have some good points and I am sorry you've seen the bad side of things, and i agree with your view, But as much as I liked drugs at one time I would not criticize you for not try'in it  ( maybe thats just me - who knows but I believe strongly in peoples views and don't criticize it because - who is right ? I still question who is right and wrong in our society, religion, state, parents?)- tis not for all. But some have, and have succeeded after the fact. The main point I wanted to make is that even if someone has done or does drugs they still can be successful, in life and with the family. To be honest I have seen alcohol ruin more lives than any illegal drug I know. I assume you may agree.


But I do disagree with people who assert their views on others and give ultimatums concerning - friendship and other. I was going to stay completely out of this subject but after reading about "wdw_ and Ricky" I figured the forum needed another point of view..... Ricky is the type of person I would avoid at all costs --- Kinda like the Jehovah's witness that never leaves your door step and asserts his way is the right way.



But thats my view ...

take care all 

Acid


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## ebolag4 (May 21, 2003)

acidtuch10: thank you for your comments. (I absolutely agree with you on the alcohol thing.) I'm glad that you've been able to be successful in your life. I wish that for all mankind.

Hopefully I wasn't too overbearing back there. This conversation just came at the wrong time in my life, and I was just too much of a nut to let it pass.


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## edX (May 21, 2003)

it feels weird being on the same side as habilis for once. I pretty much agree with everthing he said 

like habilis, i've about done it all. abused quite a bit of it actually. don't do any of it any more except cigs, coffee and tylenol. oh, and sex. 

i don't recommend to anybody to try any kind of drug for the heck of it until they are at least 18. basically for the reasons that Chem Geek describes. but i think i could probably produce just as many reports saying the opposite of his if i felt like taking the time to hunt them down. 

that being said, i don't have any 'problems' now, that i didn't have before i started using drugs. i had more problems while using drugs than before and after. still, i wouldn't trade my past for another one. i like my life and the way it's turned out. 

as for the whole ricky/wdw thing, seems like a high school attitude, one you quickly learn won't work in the real world.  too many people doing too many things to pick and choose your friends based upon whether or not they do a particular thing.  you can't control others. you can only control yourself. either learn to be strong in your own beliefs or change them. or just admit you don't know everything. either way, make your own choices and don't worry about what others choose. you can choose not to get in a car with a driver who has been drinking, but it isn't your call as to whether they should have been drinking in the first place. also, i'm having a hard time deciding how trying pot can influence and corrupt ricky in the process of an online relationship. it's not like wdw is sitting around waving a joint under his nose and saying "try this dude".

more to say when i have more time to say it, but that's my start. drugs aren't something to take lightly. anyone who trys them at any point should learn more about them before hand than just their buddy's recommendation.


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## Ricky (May 21, 2003)

Hmm.  I think my parents would agree that I should not have friends who do drugs, online or offline.    We'll see how this changes in the future.


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## JetwingX (May 22, 2003)

This is going to go all over the place

1) rickey, i wouldn't ban ( buddy list) a person because they do drugs, i would ban them if the advertised that they use drugs often in IM conversations . you are your own person and you can do as you please.

2) I personally have never used anything other then prescribed drugs, OTC drugs (Pain relives, Allergy medicine), and caffeine. I will never smoke cigs/pot, drink alcohol, or snort/inject illegal drugs. Every one in my family that i know has been addicted to a drug or alcohol in there life. I believe that if i start taking a drug that i will easily become addicted. I have already seen that with sodas, i get addicted to the caffeine easily and after 3-4 days of drinking a pepsi i will start getting head aches. because of what i have seen, I will not do drugs.

3) I don't care if someone dose drugs as long as they don't offer any to me, use the drug around me, or if i changes their personality a whole lot.

thats my view on drugs


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## edX (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jet _
> *1) rickey, i wouldn't ban ( buddy list) a person because they do drugs, i would ban them if the advertised that they use drugs often in IM conversations . you are your own person and you can do as you please.*



good point of view. i think this applies to lots of things. there are some topics i just don't want to discuss much with some friends because we are worlds apart on them. obviously we discussed them at some point to know how each of us stands. it doesn't ruin our friendship and the things we do have in common as long it doesn't become a running issue. letting somebody know where you stand on something is a matter of trust. not discussing things people don't want to involve themselves in is a matter of respect. 

it seems to me that wdw showed a great deal of trust by revealing his experience to you (and now to all of us). at this point rickey, you seem to have not lived up to that trust. i would think that just telling him what your views are would be sufficient. and then if he wants to keep telling you about drugs, you would have reason to disengage. then there would be no respect in the relationship. but that seems unlikely with our friend wdw. he has always been a nice and respectful guy with all of us. personally i hope he waits until he is older before doing any more experiementing with such things, but only he can decide that, not any of us. my guess is he told you because he valued your opinion, not expecting to be given a scarlet letter for trying something once. if you limit your friends to people who have never tryed pot, you're going to be awfully lonely by the time you turn 21 unless the people around you are very different than the ones i have known. when i meet someone over the age of 18, i am more shocked if they haven't smoked pot at least once than if they did. legal or not, marijuana is a part of our culture. i sincerely believe it will be legalized in my lifetime.


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## wdw_ (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jet _
> *I will never smoke cigs/pot, drink alcohol, or snort/inject illegal drugs.*


Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
But seriously, good for you. It's not about doing drugs or not doing drugs, it's about making desecions. Nobody should ever force you to do anything you don't want.




> _Originally posted by edX _
> *it seems to me that wdw showed a great deal of trust by revealing his experience to you (and now to all of us). at this point rickey, you seem to have not lived up to that trust. i would think that just telling him what your views are would be sufficient. and then if he wants to keep telling you about drugs, you would have reason to disengage. then there would be no respect in the relationship. but that seems unlikely with our friend wdw. he has always been a nice and respectful guy with all of us. personally i hope he waits until he is older before doing any more experiementing with such things, but only he can decide that, not any of us. my guess is he told you because he valued your opinion, not expecting to be given a scarlet letter for trying something once. if you limit your friends to people who have never tryed pot, you're going to be awfully lonely by the time you turn 21 unless the people around you are very different than the ones i have known.*


I never even talked to Rick about that kind of stuff becasue I knew it would make him uncomfortable. He found out becasue he read the post and then confonted me (you can read the transcript of that confrontaion in Ricky's attachment).

BTW - Some of you people might enjoy the song "Feel Good Hit of The Summer" by Queens of the Stone Age. The entire song is composed of only eight words and trust me, they ain't "Don't do drugs. They will destroy your life"


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## Shifting (May 22, 2003)

i like drugs.

plus i drink like a fish and smoke like a chimney.

rockstar, baby.


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## toast (May 22, 2003)

Shifting,

Being the same type of chimney as you are,
I (virtually) shake hands with you.

Debauchery people, join us !


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## mrfluffy (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ebolag4 _
> *Holy Cow!
> 
> "alcohol is so socially accepted that it's normally not considered a drug (same with tobacco)" -- mrfluffy
> ...


I never claimed it was safe or acceptable, it just seems to me that most people think any illegal drug is worse than the legal drugs just because of the law on them.


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## Darkshadow (May 22, 2003)

Hmm, here's one for you then, Ed.  I'm 25, and I haven't ever done any illegal drugs. 

I have good reason though.  My body chemistry is already messed up enough.  I'm anxious about taking _prescribed_ drugs, they tend to do some weird things to me.  Heck if I'm gonna do it on purpose!  Even Tylenol affects me - I get all jittery, my heart rate goes up...something akin to speed to me. 

I hallucinate "naturally" - part of my messed up chemistry.  Low key stuff to anyone that actually trips - I see walls breathing, floor looks like it's moving when I'm not, catch weird looking objects in my peripheral vision, every once in a while I see tracers - that sort of thing.  I find it highly annoying, though.  Plus I have a very overactive and very twisted imagination - I don't think I'd like to see more than I already do. 

Pot is probably the only drug I _would_ do - except that I can't stand the way it smells.  At all.  I start feeling sick if I'm around it too much.  I probably have gotten a contact high, though.  Lots of my friends smoke it.  I usually have to leave the area, though.  Kinda funny really, I don't really care if someone smokes it, but I can't be around it 'cause I eventually get sick from it.

I do smoke and drink caffeine, though.  My caffeine comes in the form of Dr Pepper - I detest coffee (Down with coffee! ).

And smoking is purely for pleasure.  I seriously am not addicted to it.  I'm sure everyone's going to read this and say "Sure, sure"...but it's true.  I can go indefinetly without a smoke and not even think of it.  I don't get any headaches from not having one.  I could quit anytime - but I actually _enjoy_ smoking.  Personally, I think I'm not addicted to nicotine because I'm seriously addicted to caffeine (been drinking it since I was 3 - my friends positively believe if you cut me, I'll bleed Dr Pepper), but really it's probably my chemistry actually doing something in my favor for once - maybe I _can't_ get addicted to nicotine.  I dunno.  It amazes my friends every time I go for a while without smoking and don't even _notice_ it.  Heh

And yes, I know the health risks...blah on that.  I don't eat "healthy" either.  We all go at some time, and it's not like any of us actually know when that is.  Any of us could walk out in the street and get hit by a car and die - would having smoked or not smoked matter then?  I say enjoy life as you will!

I drink sometimes, but not often.  Mainly for a few reasons.  I have this high tolerence to alcohol.  I dunno from what, I really don't drink all that often.  So I have to drink a lot to even get buzzed.  That wouldn't be so bad in itself, but I also have a hellaciously hyperactive metabolism - if I actually drink enough to get roaring drunk, I'll be sober again 3 hours later.  Which takes all the fun out of getting drunk.  'Course, I can always start up again, but by that time all my friends are passed out.   Then too, it tends to magnify my hallucinations, and I lose the little control I have over 'em.  So I don't drink all that often.

Well, that's my $4.50 on drugs & me.


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## boneske (May 22, 2003)

First off let me say that I have never done an illegal drug, never smoke, and I will never drink alcohol.  Now as for the whole Ricky and wdw_, I would have to side with Ricky.  He doesnt want to talk to anybody that will continue to do drugs, that I feel is his choice and we should respect him for making that choice.  If I was in his shoe's I would do the same thing. Taking a drug for your own pleasure isnt good to begin with.


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## edX (May 22, 2003)

Darkshadow - i would have to agree with your decision. i certainly believe that there are some people who shouldn't do any drugs. you sound to me like you have legitimate reasons to include yourself in that number. 

to be very clear - taking any substance is a risk. this can include foods because of allergic reactions. but it is especially true of hallucingenic drugs - or any drugs that work by altering neural transmissions. some people can do it safely. for others, the results are dangerous.  

to those who do experiment at some point, let me offer one word of adivice - never try anything for the first time without being in the company of someone you can literally trust with your life. bad things do happen to some people and until you know for sure how any substahnce effects you, use the buddy system.


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## habilis (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wdw_ _
> *Who here knows Ricky. He moderates this forum. We talk a couple times a week via AIM. Well, he read this thread and we just had a talk. Because I smoked pot ONCE he has blocked me from his buddy list. He does not wish to talk to me anymore. He said it was my choice. He said either I never smoke anything ever again, or we never never speak again. He was nice about it, but I couldn't believe that someone I consider more an acquaintance than friend was asking me to make a choice like that. Since he does moderate this forum he could censor or even delete this post, but I just want to ask if you all think this is fair. *


Well, I'm chiming in late on this one, but if a "friend" did that to me, I would quickly snap out of the delusion I was having that he was ever a friend in the first place. On balance you may have some sort of wierd exception, I don't know either of you well enough to really judge.

That totally reminds of when I was 18, I had a very good friend for about 3 years, everything was cool until he found out I wasn't going to college straight of of high school and I wanted to go into art as a profession(I eventually did go a year later to Cleveland Institute of Art), but his father told him I was a "loser". My friend was going to school to become an architect like his strict dictatorial father, and the thinking was that I would somehow rub off on him and corrupt him into the "sleazy loser life I was doomed to lead". 
I was completely shunned and he would not answer my calls or call me back. I thought it was rediculous, and it did hurt me, until I realized that a real friend would never do something like that. Perhaps he never viewed me the same way I viewed him. Whatever the reason, I ended up winning that war anyway. He's 29 now, lives at home with mommy and daddy, has no real friends, no girlfriend, in fact he hasn't touched a woman since the end of high school. His father FORCED him into the architecture field, and he's no good at it. 
In the end, I was the one that ended up with all the good stuff.


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## kendall (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ricky _
> *Thanks for asking, Adambyte.  Let me just take this time out to be perfectly clear.  First of all, and I should have said this before, I do not condone illegal use of -any- drug.  I was raised to not tolerate it, and it is against my belief system for me to be associated with anyone who abuses a drug or illegally uses a drug.  Fear of influence has caused this, as well as a bit of guilt by association.
> 
> And just because I don't agree with something someone does does not mean that I am in any way less a friend of them.  Of course, if they repeatedly do things I do not agree with/condone, I tend to simply move on without them.  Drugs are a different matter, though.
> ...



this is one of the biggest loads of self-richeous bullsh*t i've ever been privy to.

punishing someone because they do something you dont agree with is absurd.  especially when it affects you absolutely zero.

also, abandoning someone who may very well need your help is childish and irresponsible.  what kind of example are you setting?  you mentioned religion i think so ask yourself, "what would JESUS do?"

grow up ricky.  you sure have a lot to do.  im confident that someday you'll see how immature your actions are.

it is people like you who make others turn to drugs instead of others for support.   you alienate them and make them feel ashamed.  im not saying this is what happened with wdw_ but it it a very likely scenario and one you should consider in the future.

in anycase, keep up the GREAT work.


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## boneske (May 22, 2003)

So you guys think its ok to break the law.  I personally would rather loose one friend than put myself in a position that could get me arrested for something my buddy wants to do for his own stupid pleasure.  There are other ways to enjoy yourselfs than go out get high, get trip, or you want to call it.


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## wdw_ (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by boneske _
> *So you guys think its ok to break the law.  I personally would rather loose one friend than put myself in a position that could get me arrested for something my buddy wants to do for his own stupid pleasure.*


Everybody's broken the law. Everybody who has ever downloaded a pirated mp3, piece of software or movie of the internet is breaking the law. Anybody who's ever crossed the street when you weren't supposed to becasue there were no cars coming is breaking the law.

But, if a friend is putting you in a position where you could be arrested then you have a good reason to break off that relasionship.


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## boneske (May 22, 2003)

Everybody breaks the law. But the illegal drugs, or downloading illegal software isnt something to brag about.  I know I'm no saint, I've probably broke a few laws in my short life time.  But I dont go onto a forum and start bragging about what laws I broke and going to break again, because its ok because I'll turn out ok in the long run.


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## kendall (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by boneske _
> *So you guys think its ok to break the law.  I personally would rather loose one friend than put myself in a position that could get me arrested for something my buddy wants to do for his own stupid pleasure.  There are other ways to enjoy yourselfs than go out get high, get trip, or you want to call it. *



but if your buddy does it for his own stupid pleasure yet doesnt involve you, then what is the problem?

are you going to quit your job because one of your co-workers smokes pot at home?

as long as it doesnt directly affect you, why make a fuss about it?


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## edX (May 22, 2003)

> But, if a friend is putting you in a position where you could be arrested then you have a good reason to break off that relasionship.



someone doing something you don't approve of and consider a risk and them doing it around you are 2 different things. of course no one should be jepordized by someone else's actions. that is the very reasoning behind our zero tolerance of warez and help in obtaining it here on this site. but that doesn't mean we only accept members that have never used warez.


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## toast (May 22, 2003)

Friendships, warez... "opinions: drugs" is a topipc that can bring you very far from its epicentre


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## habilis (May 22, 2003)

toast: I think it was the ricky/wdw incident that was the thread-splitting catalyst. That incient will go down in forum history. We'll never be the same after that... lol.

::alien::


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## toast (May 22, 2003)

LOL !


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## TommyWillB (May 22, 2003)

All things in moderation... and only after you body is done growing.

I think the worst mistake I ever made was to pick up the habbit of smoking clove cigarettes when I was still a teenager. I swear I still have memory loss sorts of brain damage to this day.

While you are still a teen learn to love the feeling of your body chemistry changing. Don't mess with it by introducing other chemicals to the mix.


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## TommyWillB (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ricky _
> *The transcript is attached.
> 
> -EDIT-  Figured out that it downloads the attachment as "attachment.php."  Just change "php" on the end of the file name to "txt" to open the file.
> ...


Hmmm... We now we know who's moderatin' this thing.

Rickey, I'm glad i don't know you in real life. Obviously that alcolhol related "abuse" did a number on you because you sure are being an a$$!

Lighten up!


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## TommyWillB (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *I just read some people are against caffeine... hey, guys, I'm awake from 6:00AM to 2:00AM, I *need* caffeine !
> 
> My two cents about the Ricky/wdw_ bullfight: don't you both feel stupid ? How old are you ? *


Uh... but why do you "*need*" to be awake from 6am to 2am in the first place? Sounds like a time managment problem... 

IMHO any time you use the word "need" in connection with any drug, that's when you have a problem. I smoked cigarettes for a couple of years, but quit the instant I felt like I "needed" one. I used to drink almost 5 cups of coffee a day, but have since cut back to either one cup of decaf or 1/2 decaf. I currently drink a wine/ beer, but not to the extent that I "need" it.

Again I say... All things in moderation... including your indignation about what other people do. Live free or die. Live and let live. Do what you want to do and don't friggin harass other folks who make differnt choices.


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## TommyWillB (May 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Darkshadow _
> *Hmm, here's one for you then, Ed.  I'm 25, and I haven't ever done any illegal drugs.
> 
> I have good reason though.  My body chemistry is already messed up enough.
> ...


My body chemistry was VERY differnet when I was 20 and very skinny. Now that I'm older and not-skinny I have a higher tolerance for most drugs. I think skinny people live most of thier lives on the verge of chemical imballance because any little change will have a relatively large effect.

Obviously caffeine and nicotine are seriously interelated. Coffee increases heart rate and nicotine constricts the blood vessels. Combined you feel "amped" because you are forcing your heart to beat really hard to get its work done.

When I quit smoking I was seriously neausous for a week. When I quit drinking coffee, same thing plus punding headaches. I dread the though of someone quitting both at the same time.


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## toast (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *Uh... but why do you "*need*" to be awake from 6am to 2am in the first place? Sounds like a time managment problem...  *



Life is just too fcuking interesting to be wasted in sleeping. Plus, being awake from 6am to 2am does not mean you spend all this time outside of bed 



> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *IMHO any time you use the word "need" in connection with any drug, that's when you have a problem. I smoked cigarettes for a couple of years, but quit the instant I felt like I "needed" one. I used to drink almost 5 cups of coffee a day, but have since cut back to either one cup of decaf or 1/2 decaf. I currently drink a wine/ beer, but not to the extent that I "need" it.*



I said 'need' in a joke-like form. I can live without coffee, but it's true I feel tired earlier without it. I could get to sleep at midnight or even 10:00PM without coffee, but again, that would be a waste of time, I have many things to do after this hour (re-).

And this last paragraph of yours is just so true. Live and let die, that's it.


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## RacerX (May 23, 2003)

This is one area I really don't understand where people are coming from. Having never done drugs and having very limited experience with alcohol (started drinking at 29 and stopped at 31, never figuring out what the attraction of it was), I find this subject a complete mystery. As such I have a number of questions for anyone who wishes to answer:

(1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?

(2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?

(3) How/where were you first exposed?

(4) What do you feel about the people who supply you with these "products"? Not just the person you get them from, but the entire chain of people that supply you with your "products".

(5) Do you feel this is "the norm" or unique to your group or acquaintances?


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## Darkshadow (May 23, 2003)

Hmm, Tom, I wish it was a transient thing, but my screwed up chemistry is with me for life.  I've been like that my entire life - before I hit puberty as well (and that was just a nasty time period that I really don't wanna think about ).  I have some slight damage to (or malformation of) the hippocampus - don't know from what.  Perhaps a congenital thing.  Maybe I was dropped too much when I was young  (just kidding on that one).

I am skinny though - that probably isn't helping me out much.  But hey, you try being anything but with a hyperactive metabolism.  At least that'll slow down as I age.

Hmm...caffeine doesn't amp me up, either.  Kinda makes me feel dreamy...or just calm.  But I am definitely addicted to it.  If I go a few hours without having any, I get a terrible headache that nothing can stop - not even taking a lot of caffeine after that headache starts will make it go away.

Not having nicotine doesn't make me feel nauseous either.  I guess I'm just lucky on this one.  But like I said, I just whole out enjoy smoking.  Plus, I'm a rebel at heart, and what better thing for a rebel to do these days. 

I do wonder sometimes if there are some sort of genes for smoking as there (seem to be) for alcoholism.  I come from a long line of smokers.  The first time I smoked a cigarette, I didn't cough and wheeze and generally try to hack up my lung like you see normally.  I did feel a bit naseous (most likely I swallowed some of the smoke), but that was about it.  I would think that maybe I had just taken to it well, but a few years ago my brother decided to take a drag off of one of my smokes.  I wasn't worried about him starting up (he _highly_ detests the thought of smoking)...so I let him.  Me and my friend were expecting him to start coughing...but no, he took it just like I did the first time I had smoked.  So it makes me wonder sometimes if there might not be some predisposition to smoking after a few generations.


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## acidtuch10 (May 23, 2003)

/// This is one area I really don't understand where people are coming from. Having never done drugs and having very limited experience with alcohol (started drinking at 29 and stopped at 31, never figuring out what the attraction of it was), I find this subject a complete mystery. As such I have a number of questions for anyone who wishes to answer:

(1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?

(2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?

(3) How/where were you first exposed?

(4) What do you feel about the people who supply you with these "products"? Not just the person you get them from, but the entire chain of people that supply you with your "products".

(5) Do you feel this is "the norm" or unique to your group or acquaintances? ///


(1)	What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?  Peer pressure maybe, availability, my own research into drugs and made me curious? Or maybe I was just being human, and curious that day.
(2)	What motivates your continued use of drugs?  I dont for reasons of respect out of my significant other and work. Alcohol and Cigs, thats all for me.
(3)	How/where were you first exposed?  Dont understand, I assume you mean OLD?  I was in high school, and then I experimented while touring S America.
(4)	What do you feel about the people who supply you with these "products"? Not just the person you get them from, but the entire chain of people that supply you with your "products".  Well I disagree with the local crack dealer that sells to kids and other likewise with the drugs czars one reads about in the paper. But a friend of mine growing some bud in a pot on his windowsill I dont mind.
(5)	Do you feel this is "the norm" or unique to your group or acquaintances?  I have had the opportunity to travel across Europe and Africa, Along with visiting every country in S America twice (Because I liked it so much down there) and have lived on the east coast and the west coast of the states (Now currently in the middle) And I would stay it is the norm in my life style. I dont look for it  its just there, go to a bar, a restaurant even taking the dog for a walk in the park. No offense to anyone but it doesnt matter what country/state you are in. Drugs are there (any type) and being used with or with out your knowledge.


Its ignorant to say,  Well I dont associate with them or troughs people
Because Ill tell ya theyre there weather you know it or not.


acid


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## kendall (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *This is one area I really don't understand where people are coming from. Having never done drugs and having very limited experience with alcohol (started drinking at 29 and stopped at 31, never figuring out what the attraction of it was), I find this subject a complete mystery. As such I have a number of questions for anyone who wishes to answer:
> 
> (1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?
> ...




1.  What made you eat pizza for the first time?  Probably because it was there.  The same can be said for why people try a specific drug for the first time.

2.  What motivates you to continue to eat pizza?  Probably because it tasted good the first time you tried it.  The same can be said for most drugs coupled with the affect that most drugs are addictive.

3.  Usually by someone you are close to such as a friend or family member.

4.  People rarely put much though into where anything comes from, for example, Mc Donalds hamburgers.  When I eat one I don't think of the cows that were slaughtered and gutted or the pools of blood that stain the floors of the meat processing plant just so I could enjoy the burger (assuming that there is even meat in Mc Donalds hamburgers ).  Same with the people who use drugs.  They don't think of the hollowed out babies used to smuggled that shit across the boarder or the Colombian drug lord that just executed a village because they no longer served his purpose.  

5.  It is all relative.


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## toast (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *
> (1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?
> (2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?
> ...



(1) Depression.
(2) I like it.
(3) My drugs are legal.
(4) My drugs dealers are honest shopkeepers.
(5) I do not know neither do I care, BTW.


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## Shifting (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by acidtuch10 _
> *(1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?
> (2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?
> (3) How/where were you first exposed?
> ...



1) boredom...curiosity...and a hint of rebellion.
2) i like to enjoy myself.  sobriety can be so freakin' boring.
3) high school.
4) they risk everything so that i may be entertained.  my hat is off to them.
5) i don't really care, but it IS the norm for my friends, and the scene we're a part of.


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## wdw_ (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *(1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?
> 
> (2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?
> ...



1. Curiosity. I wanted know what this high feeling I'd heard so much about actually felt like.

2. I've only done it once, but I will probably do it again and it's because being high is a lot of fun. Some of the best jokes I've ever made were on that night.

3. I was at my friends house with four other friends. He had said were gonna do it. I had no objections. I was a little nervous, but I really wanted to try it. So we walked to this house that was still under construction, went up to the second story and got high. One friend wasn't into that kind of stuff, so he just looked out the window... and went to get us some matches. But, I respected his decision to stay out of it.

4. I don't know much about the people who grow and supply weed, so I don't have an opinion.

5. I feel this is the norm.


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## RacerX (May 23, 2003)

> _by acidtuch10:_
> Its ignorant to say,  Well I dont associate with them or troughs people
> Because Ill tell ya theyre there weather you know it or not.



I guess it is a good thing that I never said (or implied) such a thing then.  It is more along the lines of the use of pornography. I know it is there, I know that people I know use it, but I've never seen any of them use it, none of them has ever offered it to me, and I have never asked any of them specific questions about their use of it. At the same time (like drugs) I do know that there is an elaborate subculture where people do discuss and use it openly.



> _by kendall:_
> 1. What made you eat pizza for the first time? ...
> 
> 2. What motivates you to continue to eat pizza? ...
> ...



(1) Actually the same thing that started me breathing. Pizza is a food. One flavor of many. Food is a requirement, what foods we choose to eat is a taste. Drugs, on the other hand, are not a requirement, so I don't see where the same can be said. Maybe once you have started, then the _flavor_ could be the same, but not the actual beginning of the usage.  

Plus it is universally known that drugs are both illegal and can have grave health effects. Why start something when you know it is going to hurt you?

(2) Again, as a food stuff, pizza doesn't match drugs in motivation. Drugs require (I assume) active measures to obtain. These measures are illegal and therefore (again, I assume) require extra care to avoid the consequences. Pizza is usually my food of choice when I am unwilling to take the extra time to get food that requires more extensive measures to prepare.

(4) When I have been made aware of illegal or unethical (or dangerous) practices by places that prepare food, I usually avoid such places. Dealers of drugs are generally all of those things, yet drug users seek them out.



> _by toast:_
> (1) Depression.
> (2) I like it.
> (3) My drugs are legal.
> ...



Interesting, but outside what I was looking for. Thanks anyways.



> _by wdw__
> 5. I feel this is the norm.



Thanks for your response. Do you feel it is the norm because _you_ have done it? That is to say, did you feel outside the norm before doing it? If it had not been done by a majority of your friends, would you have considered it the norm and would you have still done it.


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## wdw_ (May 23, 2003)

I've always felt like I was on the outside. I still feel like I'm on the outside. Smoking weed has not changed who I am.

Most people I know have smoked weed at least once. If I didn't have these friends then I would probably be pretty naive to the pot smoking culture. I probably would have thought that it was something only serious criminals and terrible, terrible people do. If I didn't have these friends I probably wouldn't have considered it the norm, but that's only because I would have been naive.

I don't like the norm. I don't like it because it makes people think that this is how they are supposed to act, and look and feel and if you're not compliant with the norm then you are seen as weird. I'm not in the norm. I've never really been in the norm. Everybody's different, so how can there be a norm?

Anyway. I just want to say I didn't do it because of peer pressure. I didn't do it because everybody else was doing it. I wasn't forced to. I just made a decision to experience something new and I don't regret it.


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## TommyWillB (May 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wdw_ _
> *...I don't like the norm... Everybody's different...*


Smoke Different!

::alien::


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## Giaguara (May 23, 2003)

> *(1) What motivated you to start/try drugs to begin with?
> 
> (2) What motivates your continued use of drugs?
> 
> ...



1) i needed to breath (like most people do) and i still do.

2) the continuos need of air, to breath

3) figured out some steroids could prevent feeling crappy and fainintg out, or got prescribed

4) i don't like the way the farmacy producers make doctors prescribe their factory's products. but there is nothing i can really do about it

5) i have no idea in the context


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## Ricky (May 23, 2003)

I wonder how any of you would feel if you returned to a thread after a couple of days, only to find several messages with flames directed at you.
---
~For Kendall~


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *this is one of the biggest loads of self-richeous bullsh*t i've ever been privy to.*


Ho hum.


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *punishing someone because they do something you dont agree with is absurd.  especially when it affects you absolutely zero.*


In what way did I punish wdw_?  I just blocked him.  I didn't warn him.  I didn't flame him.  I gave him my point of view and blocked him.


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *also, abandoning someone who may very well need your help is childish and irresponsible.  what kind of example are you setting?  you mentioned religion i think so ask yourself, "what would JESUS do?"*


Pretty irrelevant, since I didn't mention religion once.


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *grow up ricky.  you sure have a lot to do.  im confident that someday you'll see how immature your actions are.*


And I suppose sending a nasty flame over my decision to block someone is mature.  


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *it is people like you who make others turn to drugs instead of others for support.   you alienate them and make them feel ashamed.  im not saying this is what happened with wdw_ but it it a very likely scenario and one you should consider in the future.*


I did not cause wdw_ to turn to drugs.  He made this decision because he "wanted know what this high feeling [he]'d heard so much about actually felt like."


> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *in anycase, keep up the GREAT work.*


::ha::

~For TommyWillB~


> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *Rickey, I'm glad i don't know you in real life. Obviously that alcolhol related "abuse" did a number on you because you sure are being an a$$!*


I guess you misunderstood me when I said "Believe me, I'm a victim of alcohol-related abuse."  If you PM me about that I will go into further detail.  But since you think of me as an "a$$," I'm fairly sure you don't value what I have to say at all.  

~For Jet~


> _Originally posted by Jet _
> *1) rickey, i wouldn't ban ( buddy list) a person because they do drugs, i would ban them if the advertised that they use drugs often in IM conversations . you are your own person and you can do as you please.*


Thank you for not calling me a name or instructing me what to do/not to do.  

~For Habilis~


> _Originally posted by Habilis _
> *Well, I'm chiming in late on this one, but if a "friend" did that to me, I would quickly snap out of the delusion I was having that he was ever a friend in the first place. On balance you may have some sort of wierd exception, I don't know either of you well enough to really judge.*


wdw_ said he had considered me more of an acquaintance than a friend, I don't know if you had read that or not.  And I felt the same way about him, so...
---
What is the big deal?  Flaming me over blocking someone who smoked pot?  Come on now, I thought we had adults here.

Perhaps I was mistaken.


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## toast (May 23, 2003)

Yes, mistaken is the word.

The only non-adult here is the one stupid enough to block a poor guy who admitted he smoked pot. But that's your choice after all, I mean, being so stupid and childish, that's a way of life, it's yours, that's fine, it's a free country/world.

Feel free to add me after habilis, Jet, Tommy and kendall in your so much adult-like list. Great work Ricky.


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## Ricky (May 23, 2003)

Stupid and childish?  Come again?


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## Giaguara (May 23, 2003)

I believe that everything (nearly) with moderation is ok, whether it's eating meat, drinking beer, eating candy, smoking tabacco, having too much sex, watching weird movies... that is *with moderation*. (of course it does not apply to havey drugs but anything less)... 

i don't eat meat, and many times it is me that has to explain why i don't, not those that eat it in every meal having to explain why they can't have a meal without. i have my reasons for doing it but i don't like to explain every time it. i do drink sometimes a glass or 2, but equally when there are people that don't drink, i respect them. i'm willing to have a non-alcoholic drink or non-alcoholic glass of wine with them if it makes them feel more accepted (drinking is not a necessity for me to feel good in company, but being forced to eat meat will me break even the 'good' habits if necessary, it's just against me). then, i don't smoke but i understand some do. and when they are out, they like to. due to bad luck with genes, i end up in breathing problems especially in winter when in cold, dry air ... i even exist. so adding to that air people who smoke, i too likely get problems. i don't want to make a noise of it (i am talking about normal cigarettes, just in case it will be clearer) but it has ended to a few embarassing moments.. like going out wiht my cousins in Turin, in a january ... a pub with them and friends: too many people smoking, so i feel bad inside because the smoke in the air makes me breath really badly, and the air outside is so cold it makes me breath badly equally ... both were bad, and i was somehow "antisocial" due to that, the entrance being the most easy place for me (the cleanest air, not sooo cold). and one of the really few times i remmeber i REALLY got angry to someone was when i was in a hospital, to one guy smoking ... i had told him at least 5 times the day before not to smoke INSIDE a hospital, or at least in an other department.. he did not do anything, so continueing smoking in there.. without realizing there were people that were not just visiting, that had problems breathing (okay, this happened in italy if it makes you feel better)... i hate to say "could you please go out to smoke? i have problems breathing in here" but sometimes it's just the thing i should say.. (in winter: i like the summer with the outside bars so at leat the air cicrulates). .. similarly, i do understand those that have other reasons. my cousin does not like to drink ANY alcohol, and i respect her. knowing her story helps to understand it, and i do not expect her to want to explain it to everyone. her dad used to drink too much when she was kid, and she has bad memories about it. ok, i am talking about cigarettes and alcohol .. and the not liking them. the drugs and not liking them can have similar reasons; bad personal memories, or just feeling against them personally-morally .. or whatever. 

sometimes having to explain everything 20 times a day gets tiring ... "drugs" is a wide concept, and anything (sports, internet, not eating, alcohol, cigarettes, hash, coca, etc any drug, sex etc) creating dependencies can be seen as a drug ... i don't like even the excessive use of medicines, but sometimes there is no choise. medicines are drugs as well, even when we are prescribed to them and not as our choises. so i can be as anti-drugs as i want to be, but still rely on steroides to breath at all... and those _are_ drugs. i _do_ breath as long as i am here, and it's not always thanks to my miserable lungs... maybe it is just my way to understand all the other dependancy making habits and substances as drugs, but i definitelly classify steroides as drugs, thus i'm an addict (i chose to live= to be one?) ...  ..


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## edX (May 24, 2003)

ok, this is me closing this thread because Ricky is right - this type of personal attacks are not to be tolerated here. by anyone. so just chill and maybe i'll open it up next time i am near a computer which won't be for a couple of days at least. 

and maybe i won't.


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