# SUN's Project: Looking Glass



## wiz (Mar 28, 2004)

check it out.. amazing.. i hope the next ver of osx 10.4 will include some of these concepts: http://webcast-east.sun.com/archives/GSN-1312/GSN-1312_forjds.mov


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## Satcomer (Mar 28, 2004)

I do too wish this would come to Mac OS X.


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## Androo (Mar 28, 2004)

that's just copying mac os x!
its just slightly different... it had a copy of the dock,  and a copy of exposé!


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## JetwingX (Mar 28, 2004)

my iMac would have a stroke if it ever tried that @,@


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## soulseek (Mar 28, 2004)

some of the features have been around in os X for the past 3 years  the dock and the movie playin in the dock for example...
and then we have expose,.. which is similar to the features in the video... and personally i think much more useful 
and im sure expose will evolve with future os x versions


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## hulkaros (Mar 28, 2004)

Old news! 

Still, they have a long way to go and methinks that until they will release it, MANY things will change by then for them but for Apple as well


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## Viro (Mar 28, 2004)

The whole point of Project Looking Glass (LG) is to implement a 3D user interface. AFAIK, Apple doesn't do anything like that yet, but you could see LG as Expose on steroids 

Thinking practically, LG doesn't do anything to boost productivity. Its more of a wow factor, so while I would like to have it(to show off, why else?), I don't really need it.


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## macridah (Mar 28, 2004)

it's obvious where sun got it's inspiration from.  Once again, apple is being copied.  Sun concept is kinda cool, but their gui and just whole look and feel looks weird.  I bet os 10.4 will be off the hook.  Whem i'm at the wwdc this year, i know my apple will demonstrate something that will make the crowd go crazy.


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## RyanLang (Mar 28, 2004)

I thought Solaris always had a dock.


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## Ripcord (Mar 28, 2004)

I think it's great, IMO any innovation in the UI area (an area that has lagged tremendously for the 5-10 years leading up until the release of OS X) is a great thing, even if they're just improving/expanding on existing ideas.  Keep the imagination and progress flowing!


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## mdnky (Mar 28, 2004)

From what I've heard they're having all kinds of issues with keeping it running right now, and when they're able to do that it eats up resources like crazy.  Guess there's alot of optimization left to be done.


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## soulseek (Mar 28, 2004)

innovation in the UI area takes processor power....
open an activity app.. and just move around the dock with Magnification ON... and see how much processor power it takes up...
now imagine 3D rotating windows etc...


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## gerbick (Mar 28, 2004)

RyanLang said:
			
		

> I thought Solaris always had a dock.



yep.  same as I thought.  OS X got the dock from NextStep, but Solaris has pretty much always had a "dock"... 

The rest of it though... Exposé doesn't do that.  It may show me all that I have open, resize it, but revolve, dock and tilt to the edge of the screen, and rotate?

No.


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## JetwingX (Mar 28, 2004)

i love the whole idea of stacking windows flat along the screen and being able to read the name. i would find that extremely useful


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## ksv (Mar 28, 2004)

Exposé has a practical value, though, while turning windows upside down with fancy 3D effects doesn't. About as innovative as a barbie doll, - I'm sure a small part of the population is going to love playing with it.


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## gerbick (Mar 28, 2004)

right.  and when Exposé does it, it will be be wonderful?

please.  it's as innovative as the stolen technology from Xerox for the first UI for the Macintosh.  I'm personally bored with the existing OS technology.  Too static.  Too boring.

And honestly... this is the kind of stuff they're (Microsoft) is proposing with Longhorn.

virtual desktops.  I'd like Apple to do that too.  I'm tired of using Space 0.6


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## kendall (Mar 28, 2004)

gerbick said:
			
		

> yep.  same as I thought.  OS X got the dock from NextStep, but Solaris has pretty much always had a "dock"...
> 
> The rest of it though... Exposé doesn't do that.  It may show me all that I have open, resize it, but revolve, dock and tilt to the edge of the screen, and rotate?
> 
> No.



Solaris has used CDE and GNOME as its desktop environments.  neither have anything that resembles the Dock.


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## kendall (Mar 28, 2004)

after watching that demo, it kind of makes OSX's eyecandy seem a little minimalistic.

SUN has a great proof of concept going on but how pratical are a lot of those features?


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## gerbick (Mar 28, 2004)

that thing across the bottom, sometimes the side, that has the applications and documents you've either opened or still have active... that's not the same?


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## soulseek (Mar 29, 2004)

right now we have something that works good and fast on slower machines. the dock and expose !!! then we have that prototype thing. noone knows how it works on existing machines...  apple could import 3D features to OS X .. but if it runs good only on G5s.. than its useless....


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## Viro (Mar 29, 2004)

CDE has had something similar to the Dock for as long as I can remember. Credit where credit is due.


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## mindbend (Mar 29, 2004)

Definitely a nice demo. A lot of it is pure candy, which is fine, just like switchin gusers in OS X is pure candy (and a lot of other OS X things BTW, like genie windows and the like). 

Only one thing stood out as genuinely cool, which was the notes form on the back of windows. Nice touch. Apple should steal that. I would like to see that included in every application on a document level. So many times I've wanted to make a note about a file (like what the source fonts were used to make a logo before outlining and such). Yes, I could use the comments field in the Get Info of a file, but it's so clunky in comparison. I could see Apple merely using that Window flip as a UI to effectively add a comment to the Get Info comment field.

The 3D rotating windows is nearly useless AFAICT. Also, the beveled, semi-hidden effect is also borderline useless. Either get out of my way completely or stay fully visible. Pick one. Don't kind of get out of my way.


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## gerbick (Mar 29, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> right now we have something that works good and fast on slower machines. the dock and expose !!! then we have that prototype thing. noone knows how it works on existing machines...  apple could import 3D features to OS X .. but if it runs good only on G5s.. than its useless....



*System Requirements*

Minimum Supported Configuration: Pentium II-compatible processor, 266 MHz; 4-GB hard disk; 128-MB RAM; 800x600 screen resolution

Recommended Configuration: Pentium III-compatible processor, 600 MHz or faster; at least 4-GB hard disk; at least 256-MB RAM; 1024x768 screen resolution or better

Specs from here

Not too demanding.  Why couldn't it be the same on the Mac?


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## Ripcord (Mar 29, 2004)

Erm, Java Desktop System is more of a Linux bundle than anything else.  It has nothing to do with Project Looking Glass, except that some of the Looking Glass technology might find its way into Java Desktop one day =)


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## Cat (Mar 30, 2004)

I liked the old collapsible windows of OS 9 and before ... I don't need them to be 3D ... don't see the use of that. Actually I think you need more manipulations (clicks etc.) to get something done when you can use the backside of windows or something like that. F9 - Tab does it for me: no 3D, no multiple desktops or workspaces. Just expose and switch.


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## Ripcord (Mar 30, 2004)

Yeah, there's also supposedly no "practical" reason to Expose using the 3D processor in the system and performing that very nice "slide/zoom" feature.  Why doesn't it just *click* into place and avoid the CPU-hogging, time-consuming slide?  It could take 50ms instead of 300ms!

While we're at it, *WHY* does Apple insist on continuing to including support to use the mouse for system navigation?  Keyboard access is MUCH faster and more efficient.  I can hit Shift-CMD-N for a new folder, CMD-backspace to delete, CMD-enter to launch, CMD-Control-Shift-Option-OpenApple-printscreen-F1through12-back-uppercut to launch missles...  For 99% of system navigation it's much faster, and more efficient (assuming you're a good typist and have three hands)

And when is Apple going to get over this GUI thing, anyway?  Linux has it right - a big black screen with my text, and just alt-F1 through F5 for my various windows.  Run midnight commander to browse the filesystem, and I'm all set.  The GUI is far too slow and should only be launched when I run Photoshop or a solitaire game.

Bleh.  There's just no point to interfaces with style, or with organic, intuitive interfaces that more closely mimic the real world and/or that we can organize and relate to better in our minds...


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## fryke (Mar 30, 2004)

Yep, Solaris/CDE had a Dock long before Mac OS X came along. No need to shout "copy!" here. And I'm pretty sure that the 3D window effects don't stem from Exposé but from the basic idea of a 3D desktop.

(You'll find a screenshot from RacerX showing a CDE desktop with the dock - http://www.macfora.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=238651 - here...)

Makes me wonder what Mac OS X will look like in, say, five years from now, though. And whether we will scream 'copy!' at it, because it took some 3D fx from SUN's and Microsoft's ideas...


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## evildan (Mar 30, 2004)

I can see all OSs adopting transparency, 3d object oriented effects, etc... so really what this is more about is cool effects. I'm of the thought that Sun has created Expose on steroids as well. This is worlds beyond what Windows users currently have, but it's a baby step from what mac users have seen recently. I could see something similar in 10.4. 

You have to admit this does have the flavor of Apple. Copying, following, or emulating, you decide.


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## soulseek (Mar 30, 2004)

eye candy effects are allways welcome for me  !!! that is why i have the genie effect for minimizing ON. otherwise i would disable it ... 
the thing is that its not really useful..3D effects wont be really useful and that is why i wouldnt want them if they take up too much processor power


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## Ricky (Mar 30, 2004)

And now I see how a 3D UI would be practical.

Very nice.


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## evildan (Mar 30, 2004)

The Barbie Doll was pretty innovative for it's day... not that I played with them as a child...  But I agree, this is an Expose on steroids.


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## soulseek (Mar 30, 2004)

this is nothing like expose  

let me put it this way.
if i had to use jaguar again i couldnt. because i NEED expose.

now what u see in the videos. u dont really need !


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## kendall (Mar 30, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yep, Solaris/CDE had a Dock long before Mac OS X came along. No need to shout "copy!" here. And I'm pretty sure that the 3D window effects don't stem from Exposé but from the basic idea of a 3D desktop.
> 
> (You'll find a screenshot from RacerX showing a CDE desktop with the dock - http://www.macfora.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=238651 - here...)
> 
> Makes me wonder what Mac OS X will look like in, say, five years from now, though. And whether we will scream 'copy!' at it, because it took some 3D fx from SUN's and Microsoft's ideas...




having never probably used CDE you wouldnt know that its "toolbar" is nothing whatsoever like the NeXT or OS X Dock.


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## drunkmac (Mar 30, 2004)

Amazing. Ive been a Sun Microsystem's fan and I would love to use this on my 60mhz SparcStation 

Heh. I love it. Looks so cool.


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## andychrist (Mar 31, 2004)

This reminds me of something really cool some one posted on Desktops at ResExcellence:

http://www.resexcellence.com/snapshots/snaps_html/03-10-04_Adams.shtml

Check it out!


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## drustar (Apr 2, 2004)

if you want the same effects, turn on zoom (cmd + option + 8, then cmd + option + =). As soon as you're zoomed in, take mouse and move around. not exactly 3d but hey.


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## speedfreak (Apr 3, 2004)

3D on a 2D screen is silly.  Expose is 2D on a 2D screen and it works very well.


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## texanpenguin (Apr 3, 2004)

I think that's very very clever.

Truly magnificent innovations that we can only hope will transfer nicely to the world of Apple.


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## wiz (Apr 4, 2004)

i think.. its brilliant.. finally something innovative.. it has been a while.


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## soulseek (Apr 4, 2004)

it has been a while since september with expose maybe ?

im waitin for 10.4 later this year for some more innovation.
apple is making wonderful things happen (at the price of $129). im proud to say that im a mac os X user


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## Ripcord (Apr 5, 2004)

So we only get one really useful new feature a year?  I haven't heard about anything but expose (I really like fast user switching but it's really not all that useful to me).


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## soulseek (Apr 5, 2004)

then ripcord im assuming ur using jaguar ? good for u.
well im too bord to learn beginners. go to apple/macosx   and see whats new in panther!


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## Ripcord (Apr 5, 2004)

I said "really useful".  FileVault doesn't do anything for me.  SMB networking is even more broken (still!) than in 10.2.  Expose IS nice.  Speed improvements are nice.  The fact that I can actually run some of the newer software is nice, but not really a feature (instead I've whinged about the fact that so much won't run in 10.2 too much on these boards.  Or maybe not enough).  Was it worth my $149?  ($20 for the G5, $129 for the G4)  ...  Not sure.  It definitely would have been worth $40.


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## soulseek (Apr 6, 2004)

when an xbox or game cube game costs 50 euros.. than panther is worth the money.

the point is that, i have bought jaguar, and panther, and i would like to have even a small discount later on in the year when i buy 10.4.. since i have been upgrading from system to system, im not really becomin a new os x user!


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## Ripcord (Apr 6, 2004)

I agree with the latter part.  I already bought much of the technology that exists in Panther when I bought 10.2 and 10.0, both at full price.  I've now paid for much of the same technology 3 times - why should I have to pay for it AGAIN by paying full price for 10.4?


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## wiz (Apr 11, 2004)

Thats not how it works.. u see the technologies are cheap. But the maintenance is expensive. You usually pay around like a 100 just for maintenance, the rest probably goes into the technologies.


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