# Dont you guys upgrade



## CharlieJ (Dec 10, 2005)

Why dont you there old now


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## Cheryl (Dec 10, 2005)

Hmmmm - not sure what you are referring to here.


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## sinclair_tm (Dec 11, 2005)

i think he's referring to the fact that not only do we have a section for older macs, but that there are some of us with 1st gen ppcs, and even 680x0 macs, and post for help to keep then up and running.  and if you really are only 13 like your sigs says, then it might be safe to say that you did not earn the money to get all those nice, costly apple products, and most of us don't have well off parents to get them for us.  it took me 5 years to save $500 to buy my first g4, and a used one at that.  being a poor college student, then a newly wed, then father, then divorced, and now being a single father doesn't leave me with much cash to spend on a new computer, let alone a macintosh.  i'm proud of the couple of macs i have, old and newer, and as a real apple fan, like to keep them up and running in tip top shape.
if i'm off base in my guess of you, then i'm sorry.  but i will keep my old macs running, and as long as someone else needs help to keep theirs going, i'll help them too.


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## Phluxy (Dec 13, 2005)

The fact is that some of us are not rich like you. I don't have five ipods, a powermac g4 and a imac g5. I am stuck with powermac g3s and powerbook g3 wallstreets. And i am your age. But the fact is that even if you have better things than me doesn't mean your smarter than me or people on this forum. I am saving as much money as i can for a powermac g4 with agp graphics. Stop being a retard and don't post here anymore. you are not welcome. I believe classic is still great. And you should consider people value old computers and have of course earned them and don't get bought really expensive stuff from apple. I do use os x.4 but i still value os 9. I am the better person than you. I know more than you and I value older computers.


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## Johndoemanny34362 (Dec 13, 2005)

Phluxy said:
			
		

> The fact is that some of us are not rich like you. I don't have five ipods, a powermac g4 and a imac g5. I am stuck with powermac g3s and powerbook g3 wallstreets. And i am your age. But the fact is that even if you have better things than me doesn't mean your smarter than me or people on this forum. I am saving as much money as i can for a powermac g4 with agp graphics. Stop being a retard and don't post here anymore. you are not welcome. I believe classic is still great. And you should consider people value old computers and have of course earned them and don't get bought really expensive stuff from apple. I do use os x.4 but i still value os 9. I am the better person than you. I know more than you and I value older computers.



A g4 with AGP (which is old technology) shouldn't cost more than 300, and saving that up shouldn't take that long. Why, in a few weeks i can get that made! Just work at publix or the supermarket where you live.
And yes, OS9 was better...


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## sinclair_tm (Dec 13, 2005)

there is no reason to flame.  and it does take some of us, even with decent paying jobs, time to save the few hundred it takes to buy a used mac.
imo, smart people state how they feel about a subject in a well thought out way, and then move on.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Dec 13, 2005)

Sometimes it's not a matter of whether they've got the money to get the latest-and-greatest: some people prefer the old operating system.  I own a couple of older Macintosh computers and frequently use OS 9 on one and OS 7.6.1 on the other.  I could purchase any of the latest and greatest computers with a little diligence and hard work, yet I choose to do all my work on my OS 9-era G4 and a few computers running 10-year-old operating systems... why?  Because I can, and it proves that raw processing power does not equal more talent.  If you can't draw worth a crap, a quad G5 and the most recent OS X release isn't gonna help you there.

As you get older, you'll discover a thing called "nostalgia."  It's events I remember and stuff I remember using 10 or 15 years ago... being 13 years old, it's tough to really remember more than a handful of years ago, plus you're in the age where you're always looking to the future.  I remember those times, and someday, you may return to this forum (or somewhere like it) and be the guy in the "Macintosh old-ass OS X Forum" arguing why you've still got your iMac G5 running OS X 10.4 and loving it instead of OS Z 8.7.3-alpha-centauri-six on an octo-processor Intel Awesomania quad-core 96GHz Aweso-Mac.


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## Phluxy (Dec 14, 2005)

My G4 with agp graphics will have 1ghz with 1mb l3 cache. 120gbs hard drive (total) 64mb graphics, 1gb ram, dvd rom drive and god knows what else. which is why it costs  600 instead of 300.


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 14, 2005)

ElDiabloConcaca is right.  the machine is just a tool.  i can draw a better picture than most people with a 12p biro, i have never felt the need to buy a £25 draughting pen.  the AGP graphics G4 was, 4 years ago, the shit.  seen in all the top design studios,  the top design studios produced top design on it.  4 years later, the machine is better than when it was new.  i have my Dual-G5 Bastard Graphics Engine purely because i happened to come into a large sum of money last year, and i thought that this would be the best way of investing it. i often think that it is actually too good for me, that i don't use it to it's full.  that i could have quite easliy produced all the work i have done on it on an imac costing £1k less.  i could have done it all on a £200 dell.  it just would have taken longer, and be less fun. but i could have done it.

if the machine works for you, use it.  never upgrade just because theres a new one.  weigh up the cost.


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## maz94protege (Dec 16, 2005)

Im thinkin of also buying a G4 Power mac for a server, dont know which OS ill be running but thinkin 9 since everyone is all praise on that OS. Powermax.com is where im buying mine from, thinkin of dual 400mhz one.  Still debating which to get or just get an 800mhz ibook and call it a day.


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 16, 2005)

no, not many people are all praise on 9.  the nostalgics love it, but that fact of the matter is that there has not been an OS as unstable as 9 in a long time.  it has some perks that OSX has yet to inherit (windowshading, tabbed finder windows, platinum sounds, the old apple menu etc) but other than that, OSX is far superior.


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## fryke (Dec 16, 2005)

The nostalgia part is very important, don't underestimate it. See: When you suddenly find a Macintosh Color Classic somewhere and fall in love with it (there's nothing else you can do, anyway), you suddenly need information on how to make use of this old machine. So you need information on System 7.1, on what software can be run on the machine, to what use you can still put it. A place to go where people *have* this information is important.

Also: Never forget that any Mac, even a 1984 Mac, can still be the perfect partner to write -the- novel of the 21st century or the screenplay to the movie that changed 'drama' forever. It can also be a very good thing to have an old computer capable of running a couple of games and productivity software if you have kids in an age where you don't want them to crash your main computer. I also guess that "The Incredible Machine" is far more educational than, say, Doom 3.


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 16, 2005)

i sometimes spend hours looking through the internet at old computers, old screen shots from old systems, a nostalgic curiosity.  i was actually using someones old quicksilver g4, and also their 15" flat iMac g4 and the curiosity was amazing, the iMac was running panther (which i havent used in a while) but the Quicksilver was running 9.2.2! i was actually excited at using this! it had iTunes2 on it, with the old-look brushed metal, and aqua buttons at the bottom, with it's big blobby play/pause/burn etc buttons.  i played with the finder tabbing windows down to the bottom, played with photoshop 7, impressed at the splash screen with transparency, as i'd forgotten os9 supported this.  and then started editing my png. it was lovely, even though i was treating this 3 year old machine as nostalgia.  it was lovely.

it crashed and i had to reboot.  stupid old machine. 

i was still nostalgic at seeing the os9 boot screen full screen though.... ¬_¬


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## sinclair_tm (Dec 17, 2005)

as far as a dual 400 desktop vs a 800 laptop, it depends on if you are ever going to upgrade it.  as they sit, the laptop will preform better, but if you want something that can be upgraded, to lets say, dual 2gig, then go for the desktop.  
btw, i never remember having too much of a problem with os 9 crashing on my 7500 w/233g3 upgrade.  of course, i had over 256mb ram at the time too, which was a lot for that mac.  when i upgraded to a 450g4 and 512 ram, i went to 10.2 and never looked back at os 9.  but there are times i want to pull my mac+ out just to play with system 6.0.5.  those were the days.


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## Mikuro (Dec 17, 2005)

Since this is in the Classic System and Software forum, I assume it's more about software than hardware. Then again, the two go hand in hand a lot of the time, as OS X has awfully steep system requirements.

I made the full-time move to OS X a couple years ago on my 450MHz iMac. The only reason I did was because Apple stopped updating Java for OS 9, and I really wanted to play Go on KGS. That's it. If not for KGS, I probably would've stuck to OS 9 for another year or two. OS X was certainly a pain to use on that system, whereas OS 9 ran like a dream.

My father still uses OS 9 on our old Power Mac 9600/300 every day. It does what he needs. He uses iCab 2.9 for web browsing; I've shown him more "modern" browsers for OS 9 (like iCab 3 and Mozilla), but he sticks with iCab because it's just more usable. (Ever try viewing "modern" sites in a "modern" browser with a large font size? Everything overlaps, and nothing is legible. Stupid designers.) If he moved to X....what would be the advantage, exactly? We could spend hundreds of dollars on a new computer capable of running OS X decently, but it just wouldn't be worth it. It would make more sense to buy a used Power Mac G4 and keep running OS 9.

Sure, there's the occasional crash in OS 9, but it's just not a big problem. 8.1, 8.6 and 9.1 were all very stable (9.2 not so much, because Apple kind of stopped caring at that point and updated it only for Classic support).

I appreciate that I can go weeks without rebooting with OS X. I appreciate that I don't need to think about memory management. And I appreciate Exposé. But none of that makes OS 9 (or OS 8 or System 7, for that matter) any less usable. OS X just hasn't changed my life.


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## nixgeek (Dec 17, 2005)

As sinclair_tm mentioned, sometimes it takes us some time to get the new machine that we want, so we work with the older Macs that are still holding their value after so many years.  I came across an old 68040 Quadra 650 that allowed me to use all of my old Mac apps for music creation for free.  This is a computer that in it's time was worth around $4000 and I got it for free in working condition.  I've had it for about 3 years and currently it's hosting my family homepage quite well.

Later on, I came across a PowerPC based Mac clone from Motorola which had a PPC604e processor (StarMax 4000).  I ran Mac OS 9 on that along with some of the newer OS 9 apps that were available.  And since it had PCI slots, I was able to install a USB card for my peripherals (and it was supported right out of the box).  I also went ahead and made it dual boot with OS 9 and Debian Linux for PowerPC.  Even though it was only a 160 Mhz CPU with 128 MB of SDRAM, that sucker held its own in both Mac OS 9 and Linux.

I am now the owner of a new iMac G5.  How was I finally able to get this?  Well, since we were blessed to have the ability to refinance on our house, I took the opportunity to make it an early birthday gift.  Yes, the older Macs have taken care of my Mac addiction and now that I have this newer one, I have no need for the StarMax, but the Quadra is forever.   And the great thing about the iMac is that I know it will last me for years to come (like when _the iMac itself_ is considered "obsolete").


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## Mikuro (Dec 17, 2005)

Also, judging from both my personal experience and all the statistics I've ever heard on the matter, most Mac users replace their computers only every 4 or 5 years (PC users average about 2). Look at the systems that are 4-5 years old, and that will also lend a clue as to why many people still use OS 9. I bought my old iMac less than 5 years ago, and like I said, OS X was not fun to use on it. My brother, who has the same model iMac, sticks with OS 9, because the advantages of X (newer applications, better stability) simply don't outweigh the disadvantages (the need for all new apps, learning a new system, and, of course, speeeed). He'll keep using OS 9 until he buys a new computer, which will probably be next month.

Even putting hardware aside, $129 is an awful lot for a new OS. Many people never pay for OS upgrades at all. It's too much trouble, and too expensive. They just stick with whatever was pre-installed on their computer. And if you compare OS 9 to 10.0 or even 10.1, it's obvious that OS 9 is the better choice. OS X was utter crap until 10.1, and IMHO, it only became really _good_ with Jaguar. Also, today not many OS X apps even run on 10.1.


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## psychicVTEC (Dec 18, 2005)

Like alot of the others have said, we like our old mac just cuz they keep their value.  Practical people won't just chuck something just cuz its old.  If it works fine and you have no probs with it... Then there isn't any good reason to chuck it.  A friend of mine finally upgraded to a new G5 iMac after his old Generation 1 iMac just couldn't run any of the applications he needed.

I personally still have my old G4 450mhz dually.  It runs great.  Changed out the DVD-ROM for CD burner/DVD player combo drive, added 1GB of RAM to the original 128MB, added a 300GB hdd so I have a total of 330GB of hdd space, tossed the old 16MB ATI Pro for a ATI Radeon 9000(64MB).  Soon I will have to upgrade that cuz I work and play on my mac.  As games require more power, will soon have to either upgrade to totally new system or upgrade the CPU and Video card.  

But right now, its holding its own pretty well.  I don't do high intense number crunching applications.  That is why I haven't done too much to it.  I use OS 10.3 without too much problems and I just am too attached to just throwing it away.  It is my first mac since I switched and it has a "special" place in my heart.   Some of you out there know what I mean.

Anyways, at least I know there are others that feel the same way I do about older Macs.


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## nixgeek (Dec 18, 2005)

It's funny you should mention that about your G4 dually, psychicVTEC.  My wife's cousing just bought himself a used G4 dually 500 MHz from someone he knows.  The thing came loaded with 2 GB of RAM and he's got Tiger running on it.  He also owns an AMD rig that he built on his own and has tricked out completely.  You'd be surprised to find out which machine he's keeping.

Mind you, he has a laptop that has a mobile P4, but personally I think he was better off with the desktop Athlon over the laptop.  But alas, he sold that one on eBay and decided to use the Power Mac G4 as his main machine.  Personally, I have to say that it's a testament to how much value these older computers have, and I'm glad to say that I will be enjoying the same longevity from my iMac G5.


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## sinclair_tm (Dec 19, 2005)

i got an old 5500 starmax in storage nix.  one of these days i'll dig it out and will have to have you help me install some flavor of unix on it.  i did try downloading and installing linuxppc on my 7500 at one point in my life, but failed miserablly.  yse, os x is unix based, and i have it on my g4, but it would still be fun and educational to run a pure unix on my older hardware.  i'm bad, once i get my hands on a working mac, i never let go.  i got -gasp- over 12, most of which are 68k.


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## nixgeek (Dec 19, 2005)

sinclair_tm said:
			
		

> i got an old 5500 starmax in storage nix.  one of these days i'll dig it out and will have to have you help me install some flavor of unix on it.  i did try downloading and installing linuxppc on my 7500 at one point in my life, but failed miserablly.  yse, os x is unix based, and i have it on my g4, but it would still be fun and educational to run a pure unix on my older hardware.  i'm bad, once i get my hands on a working mac, i never let go.  i got -gasp- over 12, most of which are 68k.



Welcome to the club, we've got jackets! </Shrek> ::ha::

Considering that you and I frequent another forum dedicated to 68K Macs, this doesn't surprise me one bit. 

If you need any help installing Linux on that puppy, let me know.  Linux/ppc has gotten much better through the years, but of course it's nothing like installing it on a PC, especially when it's an Old World Mac (New World Macs install the latest Linux distros very easily).

Trust me.  If it weren't for my wife, this house would be _filled_ to the brim with various generations of Macs...and yes, even some PCs, Amigas, and some other 80s computers as well.


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## CharlieJ (May 30, 2006)

Phluxy said:
			
		

> The fact is that some of us are not rich like you. I don't have five ipods, a powermac g4 and a imac g5. I am stuck with powermac g3s and powerbook g3 wallstreets. And i am your age. But the fact is that even if you have better things than me doesn't mean your smarter than me or people on this forum. I am saving as much money as i can for a powermac g4 with agp graphics. Stop being a retard and don't post here anymore. you are not welcome. I believe classic is still great. And you should consider people value old computers and have of course earned them and don't get bought really expensive stuff from apple. I do use os x.4 but i still value os 9. I am the better person than you. I know more than you and I value older computers.



The only mac that is actually mine is the g3 WHICH DOSENT WORK so you have more than me so stop moaning


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## fryke (May 30, 2006)

erh... which post are you answering now?


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