# Olympic Dream?



## Rhisiart (Aug 25, 2008)

What is everyone's thoughts on the recent Olympics?

Here are mine:

1. Well organised event. However, no democratic country could justify to its taxpayers to put on such a lavish display. A little cheating from the Chinese authorities didn't help China's PR either.

2. Fantastic sporting achievements from all the athletes. Well done Phelps and Bolt, but a big congratulation to every sporting participant.

3. Wonderful support from the Chinese audiences who showed magnanimity even when other countries beat their own national favourites.

4. What to make of London's 8 minute display at the closing ceremony, complete with Beckham and 'A Whole Lotta Love'? (Jimmy Page's riff sent a clear message to the Chinese. You can put on a great show, but we don't care - get a hold of this!).

5. Now what happens to Tibet and China's human rights record?


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## bbloke (Aug 25, 2008)

My thoughts about the Olympics have been extremely mixed.  To be honest, I was not very keen that the Olympics go to China in the first place, for a number of reasons.  That said, this year really did renew my interest in the competition, after having fallen by the wayside over the years, and I think the games themselves were very successful.  It was a spectacular show, the venues were good, and there were quite a number of feats that were on show during the games.

In the run up to the Olympics, we were told that holding them in China would help to open up China and improve human rights.  The IOC then seemed to become very cagey about this more recently, in light of the way things turned out.  We did not hear much about the demolition of homes, but I'm sure there were a lot of unhappy people and it has also been said this violated international law.  There have been further complaints about human rights not being improved.  Protestors from the West were deported.  The Chinese police also arrested an ITN (British TV channel) reporter for trying to cover a protest about Tibet; Ray also stated that he was "roughed up" by the police.  I also really fail to see why two women in their late 70s were sentenced to "re-education through labor" for applying to protest.  Apparently it was for disturbing public order, and we all know how dangerous elderly ladies can be.  

I agree: the games were very well organized, but no democracy can compete with that level of investment at the moment.  The taxpayers just wouldn't stand for it.

Many athletes performed extremely well.  Phelps was very formidable, as was Bolt; there is a debate about who gets the spotlight, but, for me, Phelps' achievement seems more impressive overall.  Of course, with a little bias, I was very pleased indeed by Great Britain's achievements this year, after  years of low expectation; there was a mix of surprise results, both positive and negative.  China came top in the medal table, and their gold medal haul was remarkable; they've sent a clear signal to the rest of the world.

At the same time, there were some curious aspects too.  I remember a few strange judges' decisions that seemed to go in China's favor, and some have alleged there may have been external pressures.  As one example, sorry but how can judges possibly miss this?  (Also note that Stevenson was jeered at the next round by the Chinese crowd after that.)  And when the Chinese diver, Zhou Luxin, "failed" to win gold and "only" came second, not everyone at home took it well:


			
				BBC said:
			
		

> The Chinese diver Zhou Luxin was expected to win a gold medal in the men's 10m diving on Saturday night. A victory for him would have given China all eight gold medals in the diving at the Beijing Games.
> 
> But Zhou came second. Not a good move.
> 
> ...


(To be fair, there were those who were more understanding too.)

I've also heard allegations of things being skewed by officials wanting headline-grabbing results, such as engineering fast swimming pools and the like.  Then again, I can imagine this sort of thing is likely to go on all the time at major competitions.  But it does leave you wondering, in many sports, exactly how significant new world records are.

Bad sportsmanship was on show by a few.  This included a Cuban Tae Kwon Do competitor, where he kicked a referee in the face (!), a Swedish weightlifter, Ara Abrahamian, was disqualified for throwing away his bronze medal in a temper tantrum, and the French coach of the Chinese cycling team stated that the British cyclists must have been using drugs to do so well (nice.).

So, overall thoughts?  I did get sucked into watching the games and found many of the events exciting.  Even the examples of bad sportsmanship were quite entertaining!  I was (for the first time in a long time!) happy to follow Team GB, and athletes from a number of countries pulled off some amazing feats.  I did enjoy watching the Olympics, but I did and do feel that I would have preferred the games to go elsewhere for other reasons, and was left feeling uncomfortable when seeing some of the background to it all (issues of freedom of speech, nationalism, etc.).


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## Viro (Aug 26, 2008)

Too much China bashing from the West. Sure, protesters got arrested. What did you expect? The CCP had made it clear right from the start that the Olympics shouldn't be used as a venue for airing griefs against China. Like it or not, the last time I checked the Chinese government was in charge of China and as such their sovereignty has to be respected. 

China has a trail of human rights abuse that's longer than the Great Wall. That isn't going to change just because they're hosting the Olympics and the silly idealists who thought otherwise are just begging for a harsh reality check. If people felt so strongly about it, they should have a) not allowed Beijing to host the games, b) boycotted the games by not competing. 

p.s. Not a personal dig at you bbloke, but come on. The Chinese invest in building a very good competitive pool and that's called skewing the results? What are we going to do in London? Throw everybody into the Thames?


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## bbloke (Aug 26, 2008)

Viro: Perhaps a little unfair, in my opinion.  

I don't doubt that "China bashing" does happen, sure, and it is not something I'd support.  Equally, there are plenty who will defend China strongly (to the point that it unnerves me, shall we say), and I see this too on a regular basis.  Finding the truth of the matter is, as ever, difficult and likely to be somewhere in between the two sides.

What did I expect, regarding human rights?  Well, China had made promises about improving its human rights record in the run-up to the Olympics, so, you can imagine what I'd hoped... although perhaps not expected.   

Anytime there is a major event, protestors will use it for publicity, that's to be expected.  As an organization, Amnesty International (which I referenced in the earlier post) does not single out China, it certainly "bashes" Western nations on a regular basis, so I wouldn't see them as being part of a Western conspiracy.  They've recently produced a summary, which included:



			
				AI said:
			
		

> During the course of the Games, Amnesty International documented continued patterns of human rights violations directed at peaceful activists and journalists in China, including:
> 
> · Activists who were detained and punished - including by being assigned to 'Re-education through Labour' - for repeatedly applying for permission to demonstrate in the protest zones
> 
> ...


and, very much Olympics-related (i.e. it's not simply an excuse to voice any old grievance):



			
				AI said:
			
		

> Housing rights activist, Ye Guozhu , is being held in police custody after completing a four-year prison sentence in connection with his attempts to draw public attention to alleged forced evictions in Beijing due to Olympics-related construction.
> 
> The police said he would be kept in detention to keep him and his family out of trouble until the Olympics and Paralympics were over. On 26 July, the police sent the family an official detention notice stating that Ye was being held at Xuanwu district police detention centre on suspicion of 'gathering a crowd to disturb order in a public place', but provided no further detail. Amnesty International received reliable reports that police beat him with electroshock batons before his trial and he was subjected to further beatings in prison.
> 
> Two elderly women, Wu Dianyuan  (aged 79) and Wang Xiuying  (aged 77) were accused of 'disturbing public order' and assigned to one year of RTL after they applied to demonstrate in one of the official protest zones. They had been petitioning the authorities since 2001 when they were evicted from their homes to make way for a development project. Beijing city officials ruled that they would not have to serve their time in an RTL facility as long as they 'behaved', but that restrictions would be placed on their movements.



Also, have a look at Amnesty's report, for instance.  Some snippets from the report:



			
				AI report said:
			
		

> Shortly after awarding the Games to Beijing in 2001, Jacques Rogge, President of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) publicly stated his expectation that hosting the Olympics would improve China&#8217;s human rights record, adding that the IOC would act if human rights were not acted upon to their satisfaction. ...
> 
> However, the IOC has shown a reluctance to follow up on such statements and speak out on human rights in the context of the preparations for the Games in a more specific, consistent and forceful way. Amnesty International believes it is not appropriate to publicly refer to progress in certain areas, while ignoring a marked deterioration in others. ...
> 
> ...


If these sorts of things result from the award of the games, then I hope you can understand why I felt uneasy about China getting the games (?).  It is not an attack on the Chinese people or an opportunity to attack China as a nation, I simply have real concerns about the way people are treated, whether in the West or the East.  Perhaps I'm a "silly idealist" at heart.

As for the bit about the pool, have a look at the entirety of what I wrote, as I did say this sort of thing is likely to go on all the time.  (Talking about throwing people in the Thames was a bit OTT...)  What I was referring to was that we, in general, more and more use technology to affect the results of human athleticism, which in turn gives us headline-grabbing news.  World records broken, etc.  This can apply as much to the suits swimmers wear as the pool design, and, sure, it is a regular characteristic of international sports.  While the athletes are no doubt extremely dedicated and giving it their all, how do their achievements and their physical prowess compare with earlier generations if they have so many technological advantages?  It's a genuine question: should we create a benchmark that we adhere to (e.g. swimming suits, pool design, limiting drug usage, etc.) or do we keep improving technology in order to break records, fully aware that future generations of athletes cannot be compared easily with previous ones?  This was not an attack on China, but a general comment about the way sport goes.

Anyway, perhaps we digress!   What about the sporting side of the Olympics too?


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## reed (Aug 26, 2008)

The London double-decker was on time.............. in Peking(Beijing). Ouf.


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## Viro (Aug 27, 2008)

> Anyway, perhaps we digress!   What about the sporting side of the Olympics too?



I was slightly confused. Having lived in the UK for 10 years, I feel that Britain is now my home and was rooting for them. Then again, I had to keep up with Malaysia seeing as that's where my parents are from and then I had to watch China too because that's where my grandparents are from. 

I think some of the Chinese were on drugs, especially Li Dan the badminton player. In my 20+ years of watching and playing (mostly watching!) the sport I've never ever seen anyone move like that guy did. Li Dan was in a class of his own.


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## Rhisiart (Aug 27, 2008)

Having watched London's 8 minute mini show for a second time, I now realise how naff it was.

Overall a good Olympics though.


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## VirtualTracy (Aug 27, 2008)

I prefer Jimmy Page with his hair partially covering his face.  Or maybe that was Keif Richards?


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## elander (Aug 27, 2008)

As for Ara Abrahamian; he is not a weight lifter, he is a wrestler. Bad sportsmanship? I disagree. 

He didn't throw away his medal, he gently placed it in the middle of the wrestling mat before quietly walking away.

This was his way of protesting against being wrongfully disqualified in the semi final, and not even being allowed to protest the decision, even though video evidence shows that he was first awarded a point, and then, after the round was over, the decision was reversed and the point given to his opponent instead. Every wrestling referee that has commented on the video has said that Ara should've had that point, and not his opponent.

The CAS has now ordered FILA to change the rules so that this can't be repeated in the future. Something they sure as h**ll wouldn't have done if this had been "bad sportsmanship".


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## bbloke (Aug 27, 2008)

elander said:


> As for Ara Abrahamian; he is not a weight lifter, he is a wrestler.


Ooops, quite right, elander.  I did of course mean wrestler, I don't know quite how weight-lifting crept in there!  


elander said:


> He didn't throw away his medal, he gently placed it in the middle of the wrestling mat before quietly walking away.


Perhaps I should have phrased the sentence differently, looking back at it.  By "throwing away," I meant "discarding," rather than implying anything about the force used.  The reports I read stated that he dropped the medal on the floor (e.g. according to that BBC link, he "dumped his medal on the floor").

It sounds as though you know more about the incident.  From what I had read, though, Abrahamian's behavior at two stages didn't sound ideal, (e.g. right after the match in question, he had to be restrained by his teammates, threw off a restraining arm of a team official, shouted at judges, and punched a metal barrier) and it did seem a little disrespectful to other athletes to walk off during the actual awarding of the medals.  In case the portrayal of events that I've read so far were not fair, I've had a look at a few other sources too.  The Guardian, CNN, and Reuters have their own versions of events, for instance.  According to Wikipedia:    


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Abrahamian returned to the event to compete in the resulting bronze bout and won, but after he received his medal at the officiating, he stepped down the podium and dropped the medal in the center of the wrestling mat, and left the ceremony. Abrahamian complained about the "corrupt judging" in his semifinal bout and declared that he was retiring from the sport saying, "This will be my last match" and "I don't care about this medal. I wanted gold." Abrahamian also angrily claimed that the judges had been bribed, and reminded that the judge through marriage is related to Raphaël Martinetti, the President of FILA, the governing body of wrestling. ...
> 
> The International Olympic Committee held a disciplinary hearing on Abrahamian after the incident, where it was decided that Abrahamian would be disqualified and excluded from the Olympic Games due to violating the spirit of fair play. ...
> 
> ...


Does this sound more like an accurate record of events to you?


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## bbloke (Aug 27, 2008)

Ah yes, I can understand the mixed loyalties, Viro.  So, who did you support when it was China vs. Malaysia in the badminton (Lin Dan vs. Lee Chong Wei)?  The Malaysian team, or were you actually happy either way?  

As for the handover process, I was quite amused by Boris' speech...


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## Viro (Aug 27, 2008)

I thought Lin Dan was stuff full with Redbull laced with Ritalin and Steroids...


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