# Adobe crack down



## Winblows (Jun 3, 2002)

if youre running a "non-purchased" version of adobe products...This includes photoshop 6 and 7, and illustrator 9 and 10. This can be disabled though. First Make sure to physically disconnect your computer from any internet connection during the installation of any new adobe software. Once the software is installed do the following: 

******************************** 
***Under Mac OS 9.x/ Classic:*** 
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_subject matter removed_

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***Under Mac OS X:*** 
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_subject matter removed_
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***Under Windoze*** 
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_subject matter removed_


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jun 3, 2002)

where did ya hear this? and how do you know this?


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## Winblows (Jun 3, 2002)

it was annonymously passed on from an annonymous friend who works at an annonymous company that makes an anonnynous program version 7.0 for OS X


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 3, 2002)

This "anonymous" information is bogus, as far as I know.  The "Adobe OnLine" thingy in all the new Adobe applications does NOT pass any kind of registration or license information to or from Adobe.

The only thing you would be doing by following this procedure is effectively disabling the "Adobe Online" functionality of the Adobe applications -- which is something you shouldn't be afraid of anyways.  Again, no registration information is passed through Adobe Online.  

I seriously doubt that Adobe will "crack down" on you through this mechanism.


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## Winblows (Jun 3, 2002)

well there must be something because i have seen it happen.. lets call this man Bob.. Bob opened an adobe application that is illegally obtained while online and it said that his version of photoshop has been terminated and he must reinstall it, yet when he tried with that same serial number it no longer worked, yet on a different computer it did, and once the files were removed it didnt happen..so maybe you can explain this to me with fact instead of opinion


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## Bluefusion (Jun 3, 2002)

I have never had any problems running Adobe apps without any sort of folder deleting, no problems at all, and to top it off, MY INTERNET CONNECTION IS NOT ACTIVE WHATSOEVER during the install of any Adobe app (I have a packet monitor). Therefore saying to disconnect during the install is pointless, and I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that Adobe sends serial number information through Adobe Online.


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## uoba (Jun 3, 2002)

has been on Carracho, HL et al for a good 18-24 months now, normally in the form of a text doc titled Adobe Warning.


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## toast (Jun 3, 2002)

I have a friend, he's called Bob too .

He installed Photoshop 7 and get an illegal number in it. After 2 launches, the application said 'The password is invalid for your request'. Bob was disappointed.

It was 7.5 Photoshop.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Winblows _
> *so maybe you can explain this to me with fact instead of opinion *



You started the thread -- YOU prove that it's actually happening.

Gimme a screen shot of this "rejected password" thing happening.  Give me a packet scan or whatever the TCP/IP gurus do and disassemble one and show me that my serial number (or other pertinent information) is being sent back to Adobe to determine whether it's a valid serial number or not.

This Adobe Online thing has been around for quite some time now -- AT LEAST since PhotoShop 6.  This crack for supposedly circumventing the piracy measures Adobe has taken hasn't yet proven that it works, nor has it proven that Adobe is actually doing this.  Adobe Online is meant to enhance your PhotoShop experience, not check serial numbers.

Gimme something else to go on other than your good word and I'll consider believing it.  Screen shot, some kind of log file, some proof, something.


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## Winblows (Jun 3, 2002)

i posted to inform people, i dont have to prove anything to you, it is up to you to believe me or not. i figured someone might benefit from this information so as not to happen to them.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 3, 2002)

Well, I'll try to be as factual as possible... 

FACT: I work with and know many people that use PhotoShop 7.  Some of them legitimately own it.  The others are using pirated copies/pirated serial numbers.

FACT: None of them have ever reported being "cracked down upon" by Adobe.  Almost all of them have the Adobe Online thing running and none of them have deleted the files you suggested deleting.

FACT: I have read numerous testimonials from different corners of the web saying that the Adobe Online mechanism sends absolutely no serial number information over the internet to Adobe or to anywhere.

FACT: No one has proved that Adobe Online or the files you mentioned have ANYTHING to do with Adobe performing serial number checks.  No one has proven that Adobe Online does anything but what it's advertised to do.

In my own, humble opinion, I believe that there are a TON of people out there using pirated copies/pirated serial numbers for PhotoShop 7.  I think that quite a few of these people are paraoid about being caught, and ANY kind of internet-related activity will be looked upon and scrutinized and possibly blocked because of this paranoia.

It is SO easy to even tell the Adobe application that you don't want to use Adobe Online and you are even given the option of NOT sending your registration information (which isn't the serial number -- it's your name and email and whatever else information they ask for).

AFAIK, there is NO software out there today that secretly sends your serial number back to the manufacturer for review.  Anyone know of anything like this?


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## Winblows (Jun 3, 2002)

do you suppose there might be different versions or photoshop or faulty cracks out there that might be causing certain users to have it die on them?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jun 3, 2002)

> Bob opened an adobe application that is illegally obtained while online and it said that his version of photoshop has been terminated and he must reinstall it, yet when he tried with that same serial number it no longer worked, yet on a different computer it did, and once the files were removed it didnt happen..so maybe you can explain this to me with fact instead of opinion


That's happened to me before also... i entered a bad code... then i got another code and it worked fine... jeez....

i don't know why it worked when he got rid of those files, but if it worked, good for him...

and i use adobe online all the time along with Adobe Xchange! it's not once been a problem for me...



> AFAIK, there is NO software out there today that secretly sends your serial number back to the manufacturer for review. Anyone know of anything like this?


Windows and Windows Product Activation (but that's also easily gotten rid of... i've done it on 5 computers already)


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlingBling 3k12 _
> *Windows and Windows Product Activation (but that's also easily gotten rid of... i've done it on 5 computers already) *



Windows and Windows Product Activation does NOT secretly send your serial number back to Microsoft for review.  It blatantly does it, right there, in front of your eyes, and you have to agree to do it, otherwise the product won't work.  

I'm talking about applications that secertly send your serial number back to the company without your knowledge or without bringing it to your attention and then shut off if they find a pirated serial number with no further warning.  That's what these people are claiming Adobe does, with which I disagree.


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## metfoo (Jun 3, 2002)

rumor has it that all 1045 serials, the ones distributed with betas, are expired. These quit working 6-01-02. This is why people are recieving a notice that their serial isnt valid. Plain and simple. If the serial is a time based serial, like a beta serial, then it will stop working after the termination date. 

There isnt any "secret" data submission to adobe. That is invasion of privacy on adobes behalf unless they state it in the EULA. So read your EULA's.


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## nkuvu (Jun 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Winblows _
> *i posted to inform people, i dont have to prove anything to you, it is up to you to believe me or not. i figured someone might benefit from this information so as not to happen to them. *


A little late to the discussion, but...

If you claim something is true, what is wrong about asking for proof?  For example, if I claim that I have an email that is being tracked by Bill Gates and Walt Disney World, and I'll get $10,000,000 when it goes around the world twice, wouldn't you want proof?

I'm not saying your claim is anywhere near as silly as mine.  But I don't think it's such a ridiculous thing for ElDiabloConCaca to ask you for evidence of what you are saying is happening.  And yes, repeating something that someone else said is the same as saying it yourself, in my mind.


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## Trip (Jun 4, 2002)

It's called Spyware guys. And it is coming to the Mac OS if you like it or not. A few companies introducing this includes Adobe, Macromedia, iMedia, and Corel. Though nothing serous has come up yet those businesses do get you IP, registration ID, and any other personal information you have stored in an specific file.

You want proof? You can do one (or all) of the following:

1) Read this article: http://www.team2600.com/articles/spyware.html

2) Install an Adobe app (illegally) while connected to the internet. Then e-mail Adobe and ask them if they have your IP stored in their database. 

3) Just take my word for it.


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## metfoo (Jun 4, 2002)

I have been reading up on this today. Adobe is doing it. I am curious on what is being sent. Is it just your IP or both IP and serial? 

If IP's are being sent, and say you are behind a router, what IP is being sent? Is it your lan IP? or your WAN IP used by your router?


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## AdmiralAK (Jun 4, 2002)

piracy piracy piracy 
har har har.. I hear ye pirates unhooking yer internet connections already 

(I love my pirate voice )


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 4, 2002)

Your IP is sent to Adobe, just like your IP is sent with ANYTHING you send.  If they choose to log it, great!  That's common practice!  Check how many ISPs, businesses and plain old web pages log it!  Almost ALL of them!  Does that mean THEY'RE spying on your serial numbers, too?  Hell no!  No one is at this point in time!  Not even Microsoft!

Also, in the information that is sent to Adobe, your serial number remains secure.  Your serial number that you used to register the program IS NOT sent along with the rest of the information -- oh, and by the way, the only information that IS sent is the information you chose to include in their little registration process, including, but not limited to, your name, address, phone number, whether you want Adobe-solicited emails, etc.  Your serial number is NOT included in that information, nor is ANY information Adobe could use against you.

This isn't spyware.  You know EXACTLY what you're sending to Adobe, and it ain't your serial number.


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## twister (Jun 4, 2002)

Someone tries to be nice and give out a little info and others get all pissy.

Thank you Winblows for the info. I'll keep this handy just in case ...   

Twister


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 4, 2002)

I apologize for sounding pissy.

I don't agree with the information, however -- I believe the information Winblows gave to be false, and I've been trying to prove my point or to get information that would prove Winblow's point.

I think the information Winblows gave could lead users of PhotoShop to believe that Adobe is somehow "spying" on them, which is unfounded.

This topic is only new to this site -- the information contained in this discussion has been discussed in great length in a great many other places, and the same consensus has been reached -- there is no proof that Adobe is spying on us; however, there is proof that they're not spying on us... the fact that when you DO register PhotoShop, the information that is being sent is clearly outlined in plain English, and you must hit an "agree" button in order to send it.

There is also no proof that the Adobe Online functionality of PhotoShop is somehow sending serial number information back to Adobe for review.  Adobe Online is advertised as doing a certain thing, and it does that and only that as far as anyone can prove.

I just don't want people to start thinking of Adobe as another Microsoft... for the most part, they make great products, conduct fair business, are good to their customers and tell the truth.  I do not believe them to be spying on me or anyone else... I do not believe them to be collecting any information about me that I do not authorize... I do not believe them to mislead their customers... and until someone shows me that they ARE collecting my serial number information, I will not believe a word of it; I will only be wary of it in the future.

Also, the "expired serial number" warning that renders PhotoShop useless that was discussed early in this thread is completely unrelated to the Adobe Online fiasco.  Getting an "expired serial number" warning relates to the fact that people were using beta-version serial numbers with their release of PhotoShop 7, and the serial numbers expired.  You don't have to be using Adobe Online, nor do you have to be connected to the internet for this to happen.  The serial numbers in question expired 6-1-02 and the warning message appeared if you tried to launch the program after that date, unless you had entered a valid, non-beta serial number when you installed PhotoShop.


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## twister (Jun 4, 2002)

Good points.

With Applications, buy and be safe or use at your own risk.

Twister


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## Winblows (Jun 4, 2002)

true


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## brainchild2b (Jun 5, 2002)

First of all both of you morons should do research and stop guessing.

FACT:

Adobe New Installers contact adobes servers via UDP port, which can clearly be seen with any packetsniffer.


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## edX (Jun 5, 2002)

brainchild - there is no reason to resort to name calling. it is not tolerated on this site. consider yourself warned. next time i catch you, i WILL report you and then you won't be here to abuse others anymore.


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## drustar (Jun 5, 2002)

Well, as for my case - I installed the beta version of Adobe Photoshop 7 on my iBook. I tried using it and it had a warning box that says that the serial I used is expired or some sh.t.

Are you saying I can install PS 7 and ***** and make it work?


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## Sogni (Jun 5, 2002)

Just to stop all this non-sense...

First of all - I do have a legit purchased copy of Photoshop 7 that I use on my Mac, and it's completely pointless for me to use on the PC...

On the PC, I have a program called Zone Alarm Pro, that is not only a software firewall but also stops any programs that try to "phone home".

I then downloaded a "warez" version of Photoshop 7 for the PC... and you know what happened - what Zone Alarm Did? NOTHING!
Photoshop did _NOT_ try to phone home at any time, and has not... of course I don't do a thing with it - all my serious work gets done on my Legit version of Photoshop on the Mac, but just for "science", I left the PC version of Photoshop open, looked at a few files with it, save files just to make sure there isn't something specific that triggers this rumored action...

A tad over 24 hours later... nothing! I've closed and started Photoshop a few times, even rebooted the machine and NOTHING! 
Zone Alarm has _NEVER_ reported Photoshop trying to phone home in that period. And NOTHING gets access to the internet without my approval on the PC! Then again I have _NOT_ tried registering it or using Adobe Online (as unofficial versions of the software users should _NOT_ have access to in the first place!)

Now with all that said... for those of you who use Warez... You got a "free" copy of the software which - if not only illegal, you are to use AT YOUR OWN RISK, AS IS, NO WARANTEE, NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER, You should not even be allowed to come to this or _ANY_ respectable forum to cry and wine about your warez being broken!!!

(Actually I wish the moderators would delete or freeze Warez discussions on the board period! But that's just my oppinion)

Oh and that Serial Number expiring - for those clueless Warez people, that's the BETA Serial Numbers expiring this month! DUH! Even I knew that!     

Now stop crying and go take your warez elsewhere!


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## themacko (Jun 5, 2002)

I actually don't know why this thread hasn't at least been closed yet.

Warez is bad ... most of *us* have used software illegally at one time or another, but I would hope that to the best of our abilities we try to pay for what we use.

As for the whole 'Adobe-Internet' discussion, I have always had the belief that they _do indeed_ send information such as your IP address back to Adobe.  But, I really don't know much about warez.

Anyways, congrats to those of you who are 'clean' and to those who continue to use warez, I don't have anything against ya, just don't try to get it fixed here.


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## edX (Jun 5, 2002)

> Now with all that said... for those of you who use Warez... You got a "free" copy of the software which - if not only illegal, you are to use AT YOUR OWN RISK, AS IS, NO WARANTEE, NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER, You should not even be allowed to come to this or _ANY_ respectable forum to cry and wine about your warez being broken!!!
> 
> (Actually I wish the moderators would delete or freeze Warez discussions on the board period! But that's just my oppinion)



well said. i couldn't agree with you much more. i would rather be associated with the foulest mouthed individuals than with thieves. If we are concerned about our professional images here, inquiries of any kind about warez are a poor reflection on us all. and in case nobody reads or watches the news, warez distributors and users, mostly teens, are being cracked down on by law enforcement regularly now. publicly admitting that you have never purchased the software is about as smart as sticking your tongue in an electric outlet. it scares me to think that law enforcement could include me in an investigation just because i associate with a site where warez users are known to be found. At least i don't have to worry they would find anything illegal on my HD.


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## Sogni (Jun 5, 2002)

I'm not claiming to be a white dove...

But just about everything I've used, either Trial or Warez version that I felt I could not live without or would like to support the developer (mostly shareware developers) I make every attempt to either purchase the legit version or find an alternative I _CAN_ use and live with...

Photoshop and Illustrator where two of them before I bought my Mac... But like I said while I was ordering my Mac - I bundled the Adobe Design Collection that included both of them into my order.

From all my software on three machines and OSs (MacOSX, Win2K Pro, RedHat Linux 7.1) I don't think I have any such version of any software - except one that I am despreatly trying to find a usable alternative for on OSX - I already have an alternative for both Windows and Linux - but haven't found an alternative version that I can live with for OSX yet.

I may not be a white dove - but I am constantly making a strong effort to correct the situation with no excuses and no wining!

Even tho I don't want to directly support M$, I NEED WinXP Pro - and I know I can get it "for free" but I refuse to unless M$ themselves give it to me (it's been known to happen), or I purchase it myself - and since I'm currently unemployed I only have Win2K instead.


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## Sogni (Jun 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by themacko _
> *
> As for the whole 'Adobe-Internet' discussion, I have always had the belief that they do indeed send information such as your IP address back to Adobe.  But, I really don't know much about warez.
> *



I can't guarantee my findings as I'm only testing this on a Windows PC, but so far Photoshop 7 has not, on it's own tried to "Phone Home" or else I would have been notified of it, and I seriously doubt Adobe would make the software that much different on different platforms.

Why am I even bothering - I haven't a clue, it's just making people think I'm contradicting myself! shesh! heh 

Nah, I'm just trying to stop the warez discussion on this board!


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## drustar (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tormente _
> *Just to stop all this non-sense...
> 
> First of all - I do have a legit purchased copy of Photoshop 7 that I use on my Mac, and it's completely pointless for me to use on the PC...
> ...




I just wanted to add to this tread that yes, you are right about that (I do plan on getting the software sometime this month). Although you have to consider that Photoshop is such a great resourceful tool for everyone BUT not everyone has access to it. LEGAL ACCESS to it. Why? It's because of students. The majority of them are broke.  Others might say that it's not an excuse. That's all the point I wanted to make.


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## doofy10 (Jun 6, 2002)

OK - Suppose Adobe does IN FACT obtain an IP address of an individual that has pirated software.  What would they do with it??  I think that there would be way to many addresses to take action on.  Try doing a search for "Photoshop" on LimeWire to see what i'm talking about.
-Doofy


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## nkuvu (Jun 6, 2002)

There are other tools that are useful in graphics manipulation.  Gimp, for example, is very powerful and FREE.

It might not be as good as PhotoShop, but at least you can use it legally.


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## Sogni (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by drustar _
> *
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add to this tread that yes, you are right about that (I do plan on getting the software sometime this month). Although you have to consider that Photoshop is such a great resourceful tool for everyone BUT not everyone has access to it. LEGAL ACCESS to it. Why? It's because of students. The majority of them are broke.  Others might say that it's not an excuse. That's all the point I wanted to make. *



http://www.campustech.com/cgi-local...pagegen/ADOBE?L+scstore+gtxt4767Adobeff0fa50f

Adobe Photoshop 7 -	$266.00
Adobe Web Collection - $327.00
Adobe Design Collection - $377.00

Of course you have to be a student... but it's pretty cheap to go to a community college and take a couple of units and you'll qualify to save hundreds (thousands?)!


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## edX (Jun 6, 2002)

i would just like to let everyone know that i became a moderator of this forum shortly after my last post. My first official duty was to remove the directions for maintaining illegal software. I also deleted a reference to how it is done in another post. 

Feel free to carry on discussing the pros and cons of warez. but do not repost directions on how to obtain the illegal use of software. anyone doing so will be referred to the Forum Co-ordinator for appropriate action. and feel free to stop talking about your 'friends' and go ahead and incriminate yourselves.  that is allowed.


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## Sogni (Jun 6, 2002)

Congrats and Thank god! (no, I'm not refering to you as god either! lol) 

*Note to self* watch your talk about Mozilla around Ed for now on... gulp... Just Kidding! 

I'd prefer to stop all warez related stuff, but this is good enough for me. At least it's now under control. Whew!


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## fryke (Jun 6, 2002)

I think a conspiracy theory about how Adobe might be looking for warez-users by using the warezed software is something that should be allowed on this board.

Of course direct directions on how to get/use warez shouldn't be on the list. But hints to Limewire/Hotline/Carracho should be allowed, as it's very much like saying 'you can get drugs on the black market', meaning: It doesn't yet mean anything.

I strongly believe in free will. Everyone is - in my opinion, not by law - allowed to do what they want, if they can take the consequences.


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## edX (Jun 6, 2002)

Fryke - i think that is pretty much the policy. I considered instructions for enabling illegal software to be the same as giving a serial number which is not tolerated. whether those instructions worked or not is immaterial here. the activity of attempting to aid others in illegal activities is not going to be acceptable here.

discussions of technical aspects of apps like limewire et al are ok. Not all use of them is for illegal activity. Just use your heads people. This site is not a carracho server, it's a tech help site with a human side


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brainchild2b _
> *First of all both of you morons should do research and stop guessing.
> 
> FACT:
> ...



Yup, they sure do -- they contact home with your registration information you filled out and sent when you clicked the button that said "Send."  

Your serial number was not sent.

Your IP may or may not have been sent... it's up to Adobe to choose whether or not to log it.  MANY websites do this.  Your IP address is sent with ANYTHING you send on the internet -- ANY kind of form.  It's relatively easy to determine the IP that something's coming from.

No one is disputing that PhotoShop can contact Adobe through the internet.  However, when it DOES contact Adobe through the internet, it's not to check your serial number or disable the software.  It's merely a part of Adobe Online (which doesn't send your serial number) or part of the registration process (which, again, doesn't send your serial number).

Does Adobe PhotoShop use the internet?  You betcha.  Is it for the purpose of determining illegal serial numbers and disabling software?  Hell no.  Prove it to me.


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## aishafenton (Jun 6, 2002)

This copying photoshop stuff just isn't that black and white. 

I have an "aquired" version of photoshop at home on my mac. But here at work, they were considering either dumping the Macs and going to a PC platform, or moving to another image editing program.

But since me and the others guys had got hold of this "aquired" version, we had got used to it, and have insisted that work now stay with the Macs and buy photoshop licences here at work.

So..

* If adobe did crack down on the students, home users, hobbiests it wouldn't gain anything anyway, since none of these people could afford it anyhow!

* If photoshop wasn't in the hands of the students, home users, hobbiests then Photoshop wouldn't be the domenent software it is!

Case in point look at Maya releaseing a Home learning edition for free.  Adobe hasn't gone this far... but I think they recognise that piracy hasn't been all bad for them.

ps. Any professional that uses an illegal photoshop is a different matter though.


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## Bluefusion (Jun 6, 2002)

Whatever happened to the Warez thread? My first post was in there, and it was one of the best I've done here on the boards... 

Ahh, here it is. http://www.macosx.com/forums/showth...9&perpage=15&highlight=macwarez&pagenumber=11

Okease bring this thread back from the dead! It was great.


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## Sogni (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aishafenton _
> *
> 
> Case in point look at Maya releaseing a Home learning edition for free.  Adobe hasn't gone this far... but I think they recognise that piracy hasn't been all bad for them.
> *



Um, *Photoshop LE*?



> _
> ps. Any professional that uses an illegal photoshop is a different matter though. [/B]_


_

School and Hobbists - if they need something more aside from Photoshop LE (that tends to come free bundled with some hardware/software) they should "aquire" a low-cost version of Photoshop (also refered to as Educational version).

People who insist on wares are simply cheap and/or too fregging lazy to aquier their software in a legal manner. Because so far I've been able to come up with a solution to all the reasons warez people put up to why they use Warez instead of legit versions.

The only way I don't have much of a problem is for "extended fully functional trial version" as long as a decent effort is put into either buying the license or finding an alternative they CAN afford or get for free.

It's not like we're talking about a piece of software that costs $10,000 and only the rich can afford a license for people! Give me a fregging break!_


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## aishafenton (Jun 6, 2002)

Yeah true, I forgot about Photoshop LT.

I agree that people who private are for the most part being lazy and selfish. But I still think that in the particular case of Photoshop it's widespread adoption was partially due to people having a pirated versions at home.

But I don't really want to sound like I'm defending it. It isn't the right thing to do, and it doubly isn't the right thing to do when you own a Mac. 

It is hard enough to get software houses to develop for the Mac, and people pirating Mac software will only make it harder.


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## Bluefusion (Jun 6, 2002)

I'd go along with this, but, um, there IS no Photoshop 7 LE. Sort of a problem. When one comes out, it WILL be a very good alternative. In the meantime, well...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 7, 2002)

So what's wrong with using PhotoShop 6 LE for the time being until PhotoShop 7 LE comes out?  Is there some kind of feature that you can't live without?

And I disagree about PhotoShop's popularity being directly proportional to the amount of pirated versions being used at home.  I'm going to need some proof on that to believe it.

The fact of the matter is this: you can make up all sorts of excuses and try to make a lot of baseless claims like pirated versions actually HELP PhotoShop, but the conclusion remains the same: it's illegal, it's immoral and it hurts Adobe.  There's proof supporting that claim, whereas I have heard nothing but baseless claims trying to support the pirating of this piece of software.

I sincerely hope the people that argue FOR the pirating of PhotoShop aren't the same people who made the silly statement that since Microsoft "steals" it's ok to steal from them.  That statement is twice as silly as the ones made here.


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## Winblows (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca _
> * it's illegal, it's immoral and it hurts Adobe.  There's proof supporting that claim*



ok, prove how it is immoral..... seeing how morals are valued different in the eye of the beholder


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## AdmiralAK (Jun 7, 2002)

stealing is immoral
when you pirate you steal someone's idea, without reimbursing them for their hard work.


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## fryke (Jun 7, 2002)

The Adobe WebDesign Collection is 999$ at the moment.

User A is 15 years old and just doesn't have the money to buy this collection. But he's interested like hell to become a great designer. He downloads the apps he needs (illegally) and learns Photoshop. He uses it for his private website, where he shows off his abilities as a designer. He doesn't make any money off the product however.

Moral (my opinion): This is okay. It's probable that he'll either work as a designer later on and actually buy (or the company will) licenses of the products. Or he'll never make any money off the product.

User B is a 22 year old graphics designer who sells websites to small companies. He is making money. After a few contracts, he'll have enough to buy the software.

Moral (my opinion): And well he *should*.

It's always the same discussion. It doesn't actually HURT Adobe that the 15 year old uses the software illegally, because there's no way he would BUY the software. But, come a few years, he's likely to BUY the product because it's what he's learnt and loved to use.


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## Winblows (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *stealing is immoral
> when you pirate you steal someone's idea, without reimbursing them for their hard work. *




but for something to be immoral, one must have morals to go against


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 7, 2002)

I disagree.

Person A has no morals.  He goes out and steals from a small bakery around the corner.

Is this person (A) justified because what he did does not seem immoral in his own mind or (B) immoral because the popular consensus is that stealing is immoral?

The answer is B.


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## Bluefusion (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca _
> *So what's wrong with using PhotoShop 6 LE for the time being until PhotoShop 7 LE comes out?  Is there some kind of feature that you can't live without?
> *



Yes. Without the Healing Brush, Image Browser, Pattern Maker and improved Web systems in ImageReady, I would not use Photoshop 7 at all. The Carbonization is NOT the reason I use it. It is for those four features alone. Until PSE7 comes out, it's not going to be easy to go back to 6 without them.


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## fryke (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca _
> *I disagree.
> 
> Person A has no morals.  He goes out and steals from a small bakery around the corner.*



Of course you're free to disagree. But this is NOT a person stealing from a small bakery around the corner. It's exactly NOT that.

1) Adobe is a very BIG bakery which is NOT around the corner.

2) If you steal from a bakery, say, a loaf of bread (or 100$) there's a loaf of bread MISSING (or 100$). This is not the case if you're copying software you wouldn't buy if there was no other way.

ls
textfile
cp textfile textfile2
ls
textfile textfile2

Not the same as stealing a loaf of bread or money.

Of course it's still illegal to copy Photoshop by law. But the moral is definitely NOT the same.


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## nkuvu (Jun 7, 2002)

What I think you're saying, fryke, is that no software should have any price whatsoever.  It costs next to nothing to copy it, so you should only pay for the duplication costs (about 20 cents for a blank CD).

The way I figure it, if you have to convince someone else that what you (or the 15 year old) is doing is right, then it's probably wrong.  The moral is the same.  You have stolen something, whether it's a physical thing, like a loaf of bread or a $100 bill, or something less tangible, like the work of a software developer.

So take a tiny software company.  I've developed software for money (outside of my regular job).  I am a company of one.  So is it okay to copy my program that I spent long hard work producing?  Most people would say no, because I can't afford the loss.  So how do you justify doing the exact same thing to a large company?  I don't see the difference -- stealing is stealing, no matter who the victim is.


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## Sogni (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *What I think you're saying, fryke, is that no software should have any price whatsoever.  It costs next to nothing to copy it, so you should only pay for the duplication costs (about 20 cents for a blank CD).
> *



That, my friend - is what Open Source (Linux) is all about! 
Which Adobe is not part of... 

Which leads to GIMP... direct versions of it are available for any Unix/Linux flavor (i think?), Windows and with an addon, OSX. 

I really dont have a point in this comment for either side... lol


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## nkuvu (Jun 7, 2002)

Open source software is great, I use it whenever I can, and contribute when I can.  But that isn't the issue here.   Photoshop is _not_ open source.  So copying it is illegal.

And I mentioned Gimp earlier in the thread, but no one seemed to notice...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 7, 2002)

But you're not purchasing a piece of software -- you don't own that CD -- read the licensing agreement.

What you ARE purchasing is a license to use the software contained on the CD, and if you read carefully enough, you will see that Adobe has the right to come and take your CD away and demand that you destroy all copies of the software if they want to take your license to use the software away.

We are thinking too much in terms of software companies selling CDs instead of thinking of software companies selling licenses, which you ARE stealing when you pirate a piece of software.


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