# Why is Al-Jazeera down?



## tazmandevil (Mar 27, 2003)

Sorry Americans, if I shock you.

But more often my News-Sources are gona closing, what stays alive are CNN, MSN  or Fox-Cooperated News-Channels.

Do you don't think, that this "procedure" of american military-strategy is highly ANTI-democratic?


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## LogicMan (Mar 27, 2003)

I hate CNN....its another BUSH talking on TV>


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## brianleahy (Mar 27, 2003)

Since Al-Jazeera showed dead American soldiers, they've been the target of relentless hack attacks.  Read the story here:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...7/ap_on_hi_te/war_al_jazeera_hacked&printer=1

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030327/tc_afp/iraq_war_aljazeera_1

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030327/ap_on_hi_te/war_al_jazeera_web_7

As far as I know, these hackers are not US military, but civilians.


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## chemistry_geek (Mar 27, 2003)

Don't forget to read about this at Slashdot.

http://www.slashdot.org/

Sorry, I don't have time to look up the link, but it was posted there since the war began.


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## ScottW (Mar 27, 2003)

Testing something, ignore my post.


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## tazmandevil (Mar 28, 2003)

hm, for me, it does not look, like there would be some "private" hackers, that were "killing" Al-Jazeera.

Or do You think, that the following pages (all found in google for keyword: "aljazeera") have to do just one little thing with the arabic style and kind to broadcast, information and journalism?:

http://www.google.com/search?q=aljazeera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I don't believe, that privat hackers would spend so much time to create "zensored" copies of Al-Jazeera.net in such a big style. There are over 40 domains, which try to change the aljazeera Informations to the same, what we all can watch in CNN, Fox, BBC and so on.

No, thats the work of your government! 

(And I really become Anti-Thrust against Nation-Governments, that think, this has to do just a little thing with "DEMOCRACY" like we in "old" Europe are grown today, more as "Democracy" like some Dictators have sold to the "dumb" folks)


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2003)

No, I agree, it's not likely that private hackers would create translated or censored versions of Al-Jazeera.   

Personally, I have a hard time believing that the US government would go to the trouble to do it either, but I suppose I can't absolutely rule it out.  

Private-citizen hackers COULD, however, be responsible for the main Al-J site "going down".   And I suspect they have been.


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## tazmandevil (Mar 28, 2003)

G. W. Bush himself said in an interview: "it's the secret, small wars, that will descide this war, not the gun Iraqi-war".

Does someone of You know an American-forum, where You are glad to talk with Europeans about critical opinions and meanings ?

I get sucked about these untrue media-campaigns, I will read with my own eyes, that not all Americans are believing what CNN, FOX e.g. tells... elsewere I get scared about what Power your Thinktank-industrial-Governors have and are messing around in the world...


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2003)

Although this website is primarily for talking about Macintosh OSX, in my experience here most of us are are fairly open minded.   I think pretty much any topic of discussion is welcome here, though I cannot promise that everyone will agree with you.

I occasionally visit some of the Yahoo discussion forums, but there is usually a great deal of hostility and name-calling there.  Not very civilized.

Personally, I do not believe EVERYTHING that I see on the American news media, although in general I think that when there are inaccuracies, they are mostly either omissions (important details left out) or poor interpretations.  

Often, American media outlets are somewhat suspicious of information given to them directly by the American government, so I am skeptical that our government has a great deal of direct control over our news media.   If there is such control, it is well hidden.  

Still, there is no doubt that the US government produces a great deal of propaganda - and a lot of it ends up on American TV.


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## tazmandevil (Mar 28, 2003)

I'm very glad to read you'r interested in a discusion. Because often my questions and especially confrontations are answered with some "linkaway" sentences like: "But our Ministery (or spokesman, or whatever) ensured us, that this is not true.", "We don't recommend to talk about if it is or it's not, because Hussein is a Dictator and he must hunted down", e.g.

A few examples, that destroyed my thrust in american-medias highly:

? The official bodycount about the Gulf-War 1991 was about 9,000 to 15,000 Iraqi Soldiers and Civilians.
(To the beginning of this war 2003 I heard the first time about the counts of 150'000 deads)

? 1991 there have been News (with video) that showed Iraqi-Soldiert, getting Kuwaity Babys out of their hospitalisation and killed them.
(8 years later it was investigated as a Manipulation and the nurse that was used to manipulate the movie was nothing else than the daughter of the kuwaiti embassador in Washington)

? American TV-Stations showed dozens of deat Cormorans and Iraqi-Soldiers laughing about the thousands of miles that were covered with oil.
(Later, thes pictures were located from a Tankship-Sink in Canada)

? American Medias showed Videos about the result of chemical-weapon Used by Husseins Pretorians 1988, where thousands of civilian Kurdistans were killed.
(I don't stand this reality for untrue, but that the chemical weapons were brought to Iraq because of the "defense" against a expansion of the sowjetunion in the neighbourhood of IRAN is not told. Especially, that then NO-ONE was crying about the "civilian deads". In a lot of cases, these Kurdish people were lijing near weapons. And if you know a little bit about the Terrorism of PKK in Turky and a UN denial for wearing PKK-flags, then you must see, that much more Kurdish peoples were killed by Turky'sh "specialforces", than Hussein ever has killed)

? Iraqi Prisoners were showed and interviewed by American Journalists and nobody tells something against that. As American Prisoners were showed in Iraqi TV, the long arm of the "geneva convention" was the first, that Rumsfeld and Bush were showing to.

? In the elimination of the Afghanistans Taliban, us-militairs presented many months the meaning, that this is also a "precision, chirurgical" war with "little colateral dammage".
(After the war, the Air Force excused, that 56,000 tonns of explosives (70 %) did not hit their destination.)

? Arabic public medias have concurrence of a "special" kind... CIA-Radiostations, that suggests them to be real regular arabic Radiostations and was heavily manipulating the public meanings.
(That for more years before this new war today, it resulted in the foundation of a "Ministry for Desinformation" OSA)

? Kuwaitian Hotels are rent full house. Most of them to American industrials from Halleywell, Texaco and Exxon.
(Wasn't Bush telling us, that US Troups will go out of Iraq, after Saddam Hussein is killed, and that the US-Government has no interests for Iraqs oil?)

? Al-Jazeera is "NOT" an Iraqi or a "terroristic" Broadcaster... Al-Jazeera is the only "REAL DEMOCRATIC" Broadcaster in the whole arabic World! Exactly that, what americans are understanding of "free the citicens and make the fundament for democracy"
I can't  understand, why Al-Jazeera is getting attacked. Thats illegal and very dangerous for really creating Democracy!

? Last but not least there I'm wonder, what this pyramide with the eye into has to tell me, which you all can see on your dollar-notes! Whats that really?


Well, not that I like, what Hussein is doing with his really propagandistic state-TV program.

But, if a Nation, that tells of itself: "It's the most freedom and democratic citicens of the world" has to do such a lot of attacks against the real "free", "public" and "Open" Minded Developping in the world, does that not undermine their influence?


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## binaryDigit (Mar 28, 2003)

tazmandevil

There is no doubt that the US press has their agendas.  Heck, even in the states the various political groups accuse the media of pushing one agenda or another (the demos swear the media leans right, the reps swear the media leans left, the enviros swear the media leans pro-industry, etc, etc).  And it's fine to understand that and therefore always take whatever information you receive for what it is.

HOWEVER, it would be a challange indeed to find any countries media that doesn't have it's own bias'es.  And to state that the US media is untrustworthy in the context that some others might be, I believe is a mistake.  If you want to watch the US media, then the Middle Eastern media, and maybe some European media to try to get a more balanced view, then great, that's EXACTLY what you should be doing, but I also think it's a mistake to totally rule out the US media.



> * But, if a Nation, that tells of itself: "It's the most freedom and democratic citicens of the world" has to do such a lot of attacks against the real "free", "public" and "Open" Minded Developping in the world, does that not undermine their influence?*



No, it's *because* of this great "freedom" that makes the media in the US so very diverse.  Sure, some are biased right, some are biased left, some are pro industry, some are pro enviro.  The most important thing is that they are ALL represented (though obviously not all to the same degree).  Unlike other countries where most, if not all, the media is closely tied to the govt so you could not find alternative views even if you tried.  THAT is freedom.  Freedom doesn't mean that everybody does the RIGHT thing, and to expect that is missing the point.


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2003)

I have not seen most of the video clips you mention.  I would not be too surprised to see a video clip used out of context on American TV news, making a story seem more dramatic than it really was.

I'm sure it's true that our media sometimes overlook the crimes of our allies (like Saudi Arabia, and perhaps Turkey for instance) while emphasizing the crimes of our known enemies.   Since the 1991 Gulf War, all Americans have known that Saddam Hussein is an opponent of the US, so the media talk about him a lot. 

I remain skeptical that the US government would hack Al-Jazeera, but I am CERTAIN that a large number of American civilians would try to do so.  In fact, if the US military wanted Al-Jazeera's website down, they probably wouldn't have to do anything - the civilian hackers would do it for them.   

I know the Pyramid-with-eye symbol you mean on our $1 bill -- it IS weird.  I think I heard an explanation for that once, but I can't remember.


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## Arden (Mar 28, 2003)

Particularly ironic:


> "Certainly, it has been hacked," acknowledged Jihad Ali Ballout, a spokesman for Al-Jazeera. He described the attack as "a frontal, vicious attack on freedom of the press" and urged anyone with information to contact authorities.


I didn't know they _had_ freedom of the press in the Middle East...


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## RPS (Mar 28, 2003)

If you don't know the facts, don't talk about it...


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## dixonbm (Mar 28, 2003)

I personally support this war.  If the creation of disinformation or the influence of popular opinion helps American Forces and aids their cause then I'm all for it.  

You have to accept that disinformation is a part of war.  It was apart of all previous wars and it is apart of this war.  Don't fool yourselves that all governments and their actions are for the good of the world.  They are for the good of those governments.   

It wouldn't surprise me if my government did hack Aljazeera.  However, I'm willing to bet priveate citizens did it.  I personally have been trying to view Aljazeera's news perspective. I too had guessed that American Hackers had done something and I just smiled to myself.  Could it be military, cia, or private...hmmm?


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2003)

I wouldn't question the use of misinformation in war-time -- at least, against the enemy.  If we're prepared to shoot them, lying to them is no big deal.   ;-)

However, I would  not approve of lying to the US public to influence public opinion.  Better to release no information than to release fraudulent information.  In the long run, it's better to keep the trust of the US public than to tell them comforting lies.


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## binaryDigit (Mar 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *If you don't know the facts, don't talk about it... *



 Egads, that would remove 80% of the posts in the Cafe and basically ruin /. (not to mention make going to bars considerably less fun).


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## dixonbm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *However, I would  not approve of lying to the US public to influence public opinion.  Better to release no information than to release fraudulent information.  In the long run, it's better to keep the trust of the US public than to tell them comforting lies. *



The problem is that news and information that is available to the American public is also available to the world and our enemies.  So the best way to really misinform the enemy may be to misinform the American people and the world.


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## tazmandevil (Mar 29, 2003)

ok, I accept with you, that "missinformation" is a "tatcical" method, to reach "strategical" fortunes.

But the shadow-side of this practique is not less dammaging the democracy than one or more "dictators" in the world.

I ask myself, if you have seen the tv-interviews with iraki victims like wemens, children, mothers, old men and if you have seen the hate, that the bombardements with their "colateral dammages" has provocated. I heard, that your TV-Broadcasters does not show these News. I guess, You have all not seen the Correspondent which filmed iraqi soldiers a with white flag, lying death in the sand, two days before Bush begun to claim; "Iraqi Soldiers are using dirty tricks". 
(They does not have CruiseMissiles that let hundreds of people die, because of somebody 1000 miles away is pressing a red button, they does not have anymore rockets fliyng further than 100 miles, they do not have there strength bombs as the US Army uses... what kind of strategy, Iraq should use other, than "partisan-guerillia-methods"? - Bundeskanzler Schröder and foreign-minister Joshka Fisher (Germany) was often telling from: "Americans never had a War like Europe had in Verdun, Stalingrad, Jugoslavia...") 

One is for sure; War always is "DIRTY" and wether George Bush, nor Saddam Hussein are gonna make it cleaner.

I personally have family-members in Damascus (Syria) and I tell you, i've never seen so kindly, helpful people, often more, like them in "our" whole civilisated, democratic, free, industrialized and idealistic western world.

If G.W.Bush is mounting this war over to Syria after Hussein is death, then it's my evidence, that he's gonna copy nothing!

The arabic world is not the only world, that ticks other than the American. Also many European nations ticks very much other, than Arabic Nations, but too other than the American. It's a dangerous and illusionouse  idealistic thesis, that America is "bombing" freedom and democracy to the world.

Europeans, East-bloc Nations, Africans, Russians and many Southeast and Asian Nations do know of this "differences" between nations, which are in fact the "challenge" of real democratic work.

Democracys needed everywhere on the planet long times to grow and they ever failed by brought over by mighty wars.

I know from own refugees (Ex-Jugoslavy), visitors (Syria, Libanon, Maroque, Tunesia, Aegypt) and our multinational culture in Europe, that things were going more better and better... but, they need time!

Time, that G.W. Bush does not have obviously. I ask me, why?

I can feel with you, because of the 9.11.01 and I can feel with you in take care about your soldiers out there, what explains your "solidarity" with your actual government, the think-tanks and G.W.Bush.
But "sorry", Al-Quaida, Bin Ladn and the fact, that American Soldiers are sendet to Iraq has nothin to do with the 9.11.01 and Hussein. (My opinion until now, based on the informations, I can get unmanipulated!)

I'm not generally a "Pacifist". But I'm not for this War!

Time has be, to drop Hussein, today it's 12 Years to late and the situation in the "rest-world" (Out of America) is getting more and more confused about the Informations and intentions of American Think-Tanks, Pentagon, CIA and Shadow-Government. Are they legitimated to begin wars against the rest-world, just based on their illusional ideologies? I think, Ideologies should stay in the countries, where they have born, if the rest of the world wants them, ok, but bombing it into the rest-world is "agressiv", "egoistic" and "provoques hate".
Elsewhere I think it's just very clear, why the UNO and many countries are not in the same line with US-Government. (Do you know of more "Allies" than GB, Portugal, Poland and Canada?)

For me, the "key" of "Trust" is the "Truth". If (unexpected why), the "Truth" has to be manipulated in such big styles, I can't believe, that "Democracy" ever will be here in the world, but so, I expect the opposite. (I hope not!)


*uff*.... sorry, it's a little difficult for me, to write in english, from time to time I need the dictionary. (Hope, I will learn it more better soon)


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2003)

You make some good points.  This war will surely have a terrible cost to the US, to our global reputation and to our goodwill with other nations.  

However, it is NOT true that the American news outlets are totally hiding the fact that there is a great deal of public opposition to this war - both in Iraq  and around the world.  I have seen many protests depicted on the TV news each day.  Even in Britian there are huge demonstrations against the war, and Britian is currently our closest ally.

In fact, just yesterday in Cleveland Ohio - where I work - there was an antiwar demonstration - about a hundred people marched with signs and drums and blocked traffic on several major streets.  Several were arrested. 

So, you can be sure that in the US, we are NOT being told that everybody is happy about the war.  Definitely not!

Personally, I am sad and anxious that we are at war, and I wish it had not started - but now that it has begun, I think we should probably finish it.  If we stop now, the Iraqi people will only have been subjected to more danger and death, and they will gain no benefits from it at all.  At least if we succeed in removing Saddam, they will be free of him, and then we will help them rebuild.  


Incidentally, I looked up a little information about that strange "pyramid" symbol on the American $1 bill:

'The reverse (i.e. back of the $1) sometimes referred to as the spiritual side of the seal, contains the 13-step pyramid with the year 1776 in Roman numerals on the base. At the summit of the pyramid is the Eye of Providence in a triangle surrounded by a Glory (rays of light) and above it appears the motto Annuit Coeptis, or "He (God) has favored our undertakings." Along the lower circumference of the design appear the words Novus Ordo Seclorum, or "A new order of the ages," heralding the beginning of the new American era in 1776. '


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## dixonbm (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tazmandevil _
> *But the shadow-side of this practique is not less dammaging the democracy than one or more "dictators" in the world.*



You may very well be correct, then again things may turn out better than everyone in the world expects.



> *I ask myself, if you have seen the tv-interviews with iraki victims like wemens, children, mothers, old men and if you have seen the hate, that the bombardements with their "colateral dammages" has provocated. I heard, that your TV-Broadcasters does not show these News.*



We have not seen the interviews.  This may be because our media does not have acess to the many small towns and parts of Iraq that Aljazeera and other neutral countries have. However, our news media shows what collateral damage they can.  However they do not show as much as the rest of the world.  They refrain from showing pictures of dead Coalition soldiers.   

Our media may be slanted, but don't fool yourselves.  Your media is too.  Every media group has its own agenda.





> *I guess, You have all not seen the Correspondent which filmed iraqi soldiers a with white flag, lying death in the sand, two days before Bush begun to claim; "Iraqi Soldiers are using dirty tricks".*



I don't know about your media but we've been told that Iraqi Fadayeen and Republican guard are shooting regular Iraqi troops who attempt to surrender.  These pro-Saddam forces have even been dressing in Western uniforms allowing the Iraqi regulars to surrender and then executing them.  We were told of the uniforms before the war started.   



> *(They does not have CruiseMissiles that let hundreds of people die, because of somebody 1000 miles away is pressing a red button, they does not have anymore rockets fliyng further than 100 miles*



What about the chinese made Silk Worm missle that struck a mall in Kuwait last night?  That missle went further than any missle Iraq is supposed to have.  Another violation of UN resolutions.  



> *they do not have there strength bombs as the US Army uses... what kind of strategy, Iraq should use other, than "partisan-guerillia-methods"? - Bundeskanzler Schröder and foreign-minister Joshka Fisher (Germany) was often telling from: "Americans never had a War like Europe had in Verdun, Stalingrad, Jugoslavia...")*



I agree with you completely. Guerilla tactics are the best way for Iraq to fight this war, albeit not the most honorable.  Then again American's often fought this way against the British during our Revolutionary War.  



> *One is for sure; War always is "DIRTY" and wether George Bush, nor Saddam Hussein are gonna make it cleaner.*



Agreed, war is a dirty business. Although it is necessary at times.  If this is one of those necessary times, I'm not sure.  However I do believe this war will benefit the people of Iraq.



> *I personally have family-members in Damascus (Syria) and I tell you, i've never seen so kindly, helpful people, often more, like them in "our" whole civilisated, democratic, free, industrialized and idealistic western world.*



This is exactly why no one can put a group of people together and blame or hate them all.  There are good people every where in every group.  Whether they are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, European, American, Asian, etc.



> *If G.W.Bush is mounting this war over to Syria after Hussein is death, then it's my evidence, that he's gonna copy nothing!*



It is sad that Syria is allowing volunteers to travel to Iraq and help Saddam. And that Syria is transporting weapons and other things to help Saddam.  They might only lengthen the conflict, or ,God forbid, widen the war.  However, I don't think America is stupid enough to take the war to Syria at this moment.  



> *The arabic world is not the only world, that ticks other than the American. Also many European nations ticks very much other, than Arabic Nations, but too other than the American. It's a dangerous and illusionouse  idealistic thesis, that America is "bombing" freedom and democracy to the world.*



I may believe that democracy is the best.  However, not every culture/Group is ready for democracy.  Democracy is a government that must be embraced by the people.  Even the American democracy isn't fully developed.


*Democracys needed everywhere on the planet long times to grow and they ever failed by brought over by mighty wars.*

Agreed.  Democracy takes time.  Hopefully some day the world will have a more pure form of democracy.  Not even we here in America are a pure democracy.  After all we are a Republic.  As one of our founding father's once believed...the masses aren't intelligent enough to choose government.  That job should be left to the educated land owners.  A reason why we are a Republic and not a pure democracy.



> **uff*.... sorry, it's a little difficult for me, to write in english, from time to time I need the dictionary. (Hope, I will learn it more better soon) *



I take it that you are German?  My major in college was German.  I have been to Germany quite a few times and love your country and your people.  I am saddened that this war has created such a rift between our people.


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