# Linux on my iBook?



## octane (Jan 18, 2004)

I'm curious about Linux and I'd like to get it running on my iBook.
I've been looking at Gentoo [if you know a better one, let me know!]

The problem is -- although there's instructions on how to re-partition the hard disk on my iBook in a nondestructive way [I don't want to have to wipe it, because it took me ages to get it where it is] and all other manner of help files are there -- I don't have a clue what the hell they're going on about.

Don't get me wrong, I can pipe the odd program output or bumble my way around pico, but I'm no Unix CLI geek.

So, just to recap:

*1)* Re-partition a live hard disk
*2)* Install Gentoo [or better distribution of] Linux

Any help from a passing Unix CLI geek would be repaid in the next life...


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## skoggis (Jan 18, 2004)

You could copy your entire hard drive to i.e. another (firewire) drive. Then partition your drive and then just copy your files back to the new partition with carbon copy cloner. I'm not aware of any nondestructive way to partition a hard drive.

http://www.bombich.com/software/index.html

I've installed Yellow Dog Linux on my PowerBook 12'. And it's working great. Just make sure you get the 3.0.1 version.


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## nixgeek (Jan 18, 2004)

I've tried it on the clamshell iBooks, and it works great...abnd this was with YDL 2.x.  Version 3.x should run great on this and the newer iBooks as well.


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## octane (Jan 18, 2004)

Thanks, guys!

Well, the Gentoo site offers tools that -- as far as I can see -- are built into Linux that repartition live drives. It's on their site, but I just can't find it, but I did see it.

That said, the advice you both offer is sound. For one, I would need to make a back up of my drive in any case.

I want to get into Linux and by doing that, it might help me understand OS X better...


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## nixgeek (Jan 18, 2004)

octane said:
			
		

> Thanks, guys!
> 
> Well, the Gentoo site offers tools that -- as far as I can see -- are built into Linux that repartition live drives. It's on their site, but I just can't find it, but I did see it.
> 
> ...



You can also try Darwin, which is basically the underlying UNIX part of OS X.  Another option is OpenDarwin, which is a binary compatible version of Darwin.  The OpenDarwin site has links to both Apple's Darwin and OpenDarwin right here.

Since everything is more like what you would find in OS X, this might be a better option.


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## a_iver (Jan 18, 2004)

Here's another idea you might want to think about. A liveCD. You won't screw up your hard drive and the computer will boot off the CD. I believe Gentoo has one. Here's the link for a purchased CD: http://store.gentoo.org/
And one to download an ISO: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/releases/ppc/1.4/livecd/

Hope this helps. Good Luck.


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## octane (Jan 18, 2004)

a_iver said:
			
		

> Here's another idea you might want to think about. A liveCD...



Actually, that's exactly what I'm doing right now!

I'm downloading the ISO files...


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

I've downloaded the two ISO files and their accompanying .md5 checksum files.

Now, I've no idea what the hell all of this is about. What I do know is, the second LiveCD gets all of the way through the download with Transmit and then as it finishes, I get an error saying that the server terminated the connection and the file wasn't saved .. even though it's right there in the folder.

From what I understand about checksums is that they somehow represent the integrity of the file that they are associated with.

I downloaded a application called: checksum+ from Version Tracker but it just hangs whenever I try to check one of the .md5 files.

So I don't know whether the second ISO image is valid or not .. I don't even know if the first is, for that matter!

Help required once more, guys!..


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## rhg (Jan 19, 2004)

Use the md5sum command in Terminal to create the md5 checksum of your downloaded file, then compare it to the according .md5 checksum file.

md5sum downloaded.iso >my.md5
diff my.md5 downloaded.md5

If diff doesn't output anything then everything is ok.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 19, 2004)

I would have to recommed YellowDogLinux 3.1 if you can get it.  It's pretty straightforward and includes a lot of useful applications.  It'll partition your drive for you, so you don't have to mess around with figuring out how large each partition should be and what-not.

I have it installed on my G4/400 PCI machine, but it took some work -- I have a dual-monitor setup, and YellowDog needs a little tweaking to get it to install correctly on that kind of setup.  On a single-monitor setup, though, it's easy as cake to install.  Pop in the CD, reboot from CD, click install.  No problem.


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

rhg said:
			
		

> Use the md5sum command in Terminal to create the md5 checksum of your downloaded file, then compare it to the according .md5 checksum file.
> 
> md5sum downloaded.iso >my.md5
> diff my.md5 downloaded.md5
> ...



md5sum livecd-g3-grp-1.4-cd1.iso >livecd-g3-grp-1.4-cd1.iso.md5
-bash: md5sum: command not found


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

I'm not having much luck here. I tried Disk Utility to check the disk images. The first one is seen as an HFS+ disk image, while the other is ISO, even though they're both seen as ISO.

I'm guessing this is to do with the need for an HFS+ volume being needed to mount on an a mac, and the second disk being whatever once Linux is up and running.

The first disk image reports back with a checksum number, while the second comes back with an error 22.

The thing is, they both mount fine in I double-click them in the finder!

Help!..


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## cfleck (Jan 19, 2004)

honestly, gentoo is great if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, but i wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in it if you don't really *know* what you are doing.  i only say this because you seem pretty intent on not ruining your current osx setup.  be careful or get a more user friendly distro. 

my 2 cents


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

cfleck said:
			
		

> honestly, gentoo is great if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, but i wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in it if you don't really *know* what you are doing.  i only say this because you seem pretty intent on not ruining your current osx setup.  be careful or get a more user friendly distro.
> 
> my 2 cents



Other than Yellow Dog, what other Linux do you suggest?

For one, the installation instructions for Gentoo certainly don't match the experience; they say one thing and do the other .. not good!


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## cfleck (Jan 19, 2004)

for a mac, i don't have a whole lot to suggest.  i use mepis linux on my pc laptop.  i've used mandrake and suse, and they seem to be ok.  mandrake seems to have the best hardware recognition, but thats just my experiences.  i've not used yellow dog.

actually, now that i've rambled a bit, what do you plan to do with it?  how "good" are you at linux?  i might be able to come up with a more intelligent suggestion if i can get this info.


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

cfleck said:
			
		

> How "good" are you at linux?  i might be able to come up with a more intelligent suggestion if i can get this info.



Well, if you read the first post of the thread, I've got little or no experience. That said, I managed to squeeze Red Hat 9 onto Microsoft VirtualPC 6.1, so that's got to count for something.

In reality, I'm not a Linux user, but that's the whole point, I want to get some version of Linux on my iBook and then learn all about it.

The problem is, Linux is veritable nest of vipers. I don't want to know all of the arcane stuff to just install an OS, but I suppose that's what Linux is all about...


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## cfleck (Jan 19, 2004)

mandrake or suse then.


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## octane (Jan 19, 2004)

cfleck said:
			
		

> mandrake or suse then.



Well, suse is a no-go.

Having spent about 15 minutes trying to find a ppc version of suse on the their on-line store, I instead found this page that .. well, let's face it, provides you with bugger-all installation information.

I discovered that you can't just download the ISO's, you have to download a small installer and then pull the rest of the images down via the net.

So I found some document on their ftp site, which if the current download speed is anything to go by, installing suse could take about 3 or 4 days!

I'm just wondering if it's going to be worth my while going any further with this. Let's be honest, if this is the kind of first-time experience people can expect from Linux, Microsoft have nothing to worry about on the desktop...


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## donkey (Jan 19, 2004)

i've often held the opinion that ms has little to worry about on the desktop with linux for reasons such as this.  it tends to be a pain more than anything.  of course you have to understand that you are using the "free" download method.  buying the cds would probably make your life easier.  

there is mandrake download link here...
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/pr/products/2417&wslang=en

linux is a *nix environment for people who like to make it work themselves.  os x is unix for people who want it to work for them.


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## octane (Jan 20, 2004)

donkey said:
			
		

> buying the cds would probably make your life easier.



With suse, that wasn't an option:



> We don't have a current "consumer" version of Linux for Apple (PPC)
> hardware, I'm afraid.  Our last release was 7.3, while the current version
> on the x86 (Intel compatible PC) is 9.0.
> 
> ...





			
				donkey said:
			
		

> there is mandrake download link here...
> http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/pr/products/2417&wslang=en



I found a download page, but I needed to ask a few questions first. Their support system is a shambles. The: 'got a question?' feature was broken and FAQ was useless.



			
				donkey said:
			
		

> linux is a *nix environment for people who like to make it work themselves.  os x is unix for people who want it to work for them.



Oh, don't I know it!


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## Cat (Jan 20, 2004)

Octane, you can already do a lot of "linux" things right in OS X. What exactly is it that you wanted to learn? You can download and install Gnome and KDE through Fink and play with them, you can already use OpenSource applications that are built right into OS X, like Apache and Perl, there are innumerable OpenSource apps that can be installed through Fink (2431 packages currently in unstable), DarwinPorts etc.
What is it you want to learn about? The terminal and commandline interfaces? It's already there! The X11 environment? We've got that! OpenSource programs? There's a lot of them that run in OS X right now!
If you really really want actually run the Linux kernel on your Mac, try a live CD as was suggested. Gentoo should do fine for starters. We're still waiting for a PPC version of Knoppix. It is being worked on, but it's still in alpha AFAIK.


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## octane (Jan 20, 2004)

Cat said:
			
		

> Octane .. what is it you want to learn about? The terminal and commandline interfaces? It's already there!



If that really was the case, why isn't every Linux user running OS X? It's a rhetorical question, so I'd prefer this thread didn't descend into a petty argument. I need advice not criticism.



			
				Cat said:
			
		

> If you really really want actually run the Linux kernel on your Mac, try a live CD as was suggested...



I already have these cd's as I stated earlier in this thread. And to reiterate my complaint, the instructions on their site differs massively from the experience you get once you boot into the cd; instructions say one thing, cd does another.

I've been around the Mandrake site and they look promising. Ideally, I'd like an installation as easy as Red Hat 9...


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## cfleck (Jan 20, 2004)

i'm pretty sure that you'll find a nice install with mandrake.  about their support, i'm not sure.  i used it after i struggled with gentoo for about a year.  once you do that, you become pretty dang intimate with linux, so i never had a need for their support.  it set up my hardware appropriately (gateway p3 laptop with aftermarket wireless card) and i was off and running.

i wasn't aware of a gentoo livecd that was worth its salt.  personally, i'm not a big fan of live cds if you are going to seriously use it.  things are just different enough to be weird.  anyway, good luck with whatever you try.


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## Trillian (Jan 20, 2004)

I'll be honest, I'm too lazy right now to read that whole thread, but here is my suggestions/comments

I love gentoo on my imac. It took me forever to get it up and running though- I had no f-weeeeee-king clue what the instructions were telling me to do. But I just toyed around, and tinkered. The live cd was a valuable option when installing- I could boot up into gnome, and start the install (although it was slowed compaired to installing it  w/o gnome) and then when I hit a problem I couldn't get around, I just would start up mozilla and pop off to the help fourms. Gentoo is a great system, and a great learning process when you install.

Or if you need this right away/don't want to put up with installing it by hand, Yellow dog was also a good distro. It is basicaly RH9. If you have ran the installer for Redhat, then you have also used YDL's installer, they both use anaconda. Plus YDL is the only distro that is complely centered on ppc. It is good if you are just starting out with linux, although their package manager can get fairly anoying after awhile.


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## octane (Jan 21, 2004)

This article pretty much covers all of my questions.

Thanks for all the help, guys!..


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## michaelsanford (Jan 24, 2004)

In another post someone asked me why I didn't like YDL on my iBook and I couldn't give a straightforward answer, but I've just remembered it! With OS 9 I got from 4-6 hours of battery life, but with YDL I got around 1.5, and all my Apple function keys didn't work (like volume, mintor brightness, etc).

Mind you, Panther's not a whole lot better, with best conservation my battery only lasts 3 hours...


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## Hydroglow (Jan 25, 2004)

Octane,


I just installed Gentoo on my G3 500Mhz iBook2 and everything works just as I need. The Gentoo installation is a bit of a challenge but trust me when you get it up and running you will love it to death. Out of all the distros I've used Gentoo is the best and for the PPC.  I've used Fink and it's ok I give it that. If you want to run something like Gnome, KDE, blackbox or enlightenment or whatever then I would recommend a Linux partition. Mandrake is ok but I wouldn't recommend it for the life of me. If I had to use something besides Gentoo I would shoot for SuSe. The reason every Linux user isn't using OS X is because 

A) Not a lot of free software. Despite Fink ( I know they do a damn good job it's just not cutting it. Gentoo is going to port there portage software on OS X so stay tuned for that that might change some things in the OS X community)

B) I like using ReiserFS for my root partition. IMO it's better then Ext3 you can't pick what FS you want with OS X it's just Ext3

C) Installing custom kernels again OS X has one kernel while Linux has many.


That's just some of the things I can think of at this time.   


Not to mention the Linux community is bigger then the Darwin community and it's more Open source. Sure Apple has some what of a Open source community but it's mostly closed source. (due to Apple making money off it's OS which I can understand) I like OS X in fact I love it. But I will never trade in my Linux partition maybe in a couple of releases when OS X has more options but who knows.


Also MOL (http://www.maconlinux.org/) makes my Linux box complete.

So my point is stick with it. Gentoo has great documents on how to install on the PPC and I can give you a hand if you have any other questions.


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## octane (Jan 25, 2004)

Hydroglow said:
			
		

> Octane, I just installed Gentoo on my G3 500Mhz iBook2 and everything works just as I need...



Just to reiterate my situation: I can't wipe my iBook, and I know next to nothing about Linux.

In an earlier post, I referenced an page on the IBM developer site that looked at the various distros of Linux and which are the best for Apple hardware.

Yellow Dog seems to be the consensus, but the article mentions that there isn't any way of editing a HFS+ partition in a non-destructive, at least no method that isn't out of alpha testing.

This is a massive blow. The only thing I can think to do is make a back up my iBooks system [Carbon Copy Cloner?]...


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## Koelling (Jan 25, 2004)

took me the better part of an hour to find it again (SourceForge has TERRIBLE search capabilities) but I found what helped me.
http://ppcconfdb.sourceforge.net/

This is a database of config files for linux. I just put gentoo on my iMac having no Linux, only practice on Mac OSX and it took about 24 hours (including reasonable amount of sleep during compilation). I do not recomend this to everyone but I don't discourage you from gentoo if you're not familiar with linux. 

The gentoo docs had a tendancy to be great in parts, not so great in others. It would say "Change directories to root using the command 'cd /' but then it would later say "edit your make.conf file to your own tastes." It was in these moments when they assumed you knew what you were doing that I was lost beyond hope until I found a link to this project and that helped a bunch!

Good luck with Gentoo, I love it.


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