# MWSF - Apple sets expectations high



## fryke (Dec 31, 2001)

Go to www.apple.com ... The banner for MWSF sets my expectations quite high. If *they* say it's a big show, the G5 must arrive, doesn't it? Remember that we expected a flat panel iMac last time? We certainly do now.


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

fryke:  I'm inclined to agree.  I just went to Apple's site and my jaw dropped.  I guess it's going to be REALLY huge.  Flat-panel iMacs seem to be a shoo-in, although I'm still holding out about the G5 thing.

We'll see.


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## fryke (Dec 31, 2001)

i just love the excitement.  gosh, those quicktime servers are gonna be overcrowded. glad i'm on a fast line, but i guess it won't be enough. ever.


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## serpicolugnut (Dec 31, 2001)

Apple is intending on fullfilling these rumors:

1. Flat Panel iMacs, hopefully with a base model at $999

2. G5s (or at least G4+'s) with speeds at least 1.0ghz, and at most 1.6ghz. 

3. New flat panels, with sizes going to 17, 19 and 24inch. 17inch should be no more than $699, 19inch should be no more $1199, and 24inch should be $2499...

Oh, and Adobe will have to announced a Photoshop shipping date, and Macromedia will have to do the same with Flash and Dreamweaver...


Here's hoping that all comes true....


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## twister (Dec 31, 2001)

ohh and new bigger screened ibooks at great prices.  Yea.

Twister
--buying an iBook in janurary--


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## Daeyin (Dec 31, 2001)

Usually by now (one week prior), the rumor sites are overflowing with information about what will be released at an Expo.

Oddly, they are pretty silent.  Is this stuff so good that Apple has kept such a tight lid on it? 

or are they keeping a tight lid to keep expectations low so we are not dissapointed? 

The wait is gonna kill me!


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## vanguard (Dec 31, 2001)

I've only been a mac owner for about 8 months but I've been following Apple for far longer.  It's pretty normal for them to miss the high expectations set by their fans.  I've seen Steve Jobs quoted several times as saying,"They reall blew it" at their last conference.  And while I love the iPod, is it really the world changer they said it would be?  I think the initial reaction to that announcement was negative too. (Although later people started to like the new product.)

I can't help but wonder what they're up to.  Their site says, "This one is big.  Even by out standards."  To live up to the hype they're building they'll need new iMacs as a warmup, a new G5 to keep pace with the AMD/Intel advancements, OSX to be the default OS, and a PDA as a finale.

Is overhyping going to create more negative press?  Is Apple making a mistake?  This had better be good.


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## tagliatelle (Dec 31, 2001)

BTW New Imacs means money for me!


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## Krevinek (Dec 31, 2001)

Another idea is that they have something we haven't seen before (not just an enhanced product) waiting in the wings. The iPod was supposed to be a starting point for Apple in the 'digital lifestyle' product line. Apple overestimated the sales potential of the iPod, but still turned a profit with them, as well as the stores selling 20 iPods a day during the first week, which isn't all that bad for a Mac-only, 400$ product.

Now, at the very least, flat-panel iMacs are a certainty. Apple has been wanting to do this (CRTs are hell on the environment, and Jobs being an environmentalist and all) and with prices for LCDs being what they are at now, they can finally make the switch over to a true LCD-only company. 

Also, fast-speed G4s (or possibly G5s are coming to mind because of the banner, although I am not holding my breath) like everyone else said, that will close the gap. I am hoping for 1.6Ghz machines, but my mind tells me only 1.4Ghz will actually arrive (G4 OR G5) until mid-year. I am also partially expecting a new mobo design with this 'HyperTransport' 400Mhz bus and DDR RAM Apple helped invest in awhile back. The G5s were rumored to have it, and either way, this would be a great boost to the power of even current speed PMG4s.

New iBooks/PBG4s? I doubt it. The iBook might get tweaked, a larger display might be nice, but I doubt it. Wait until MWSF for those two to get their yearly overhaul (1Ghz PBG4s would be nice then...)


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## theCaptain (Dec 31, 2001)

Get some Apple stock my friends I can see it really taking off, starting tommorow.  This reminds me of the thing Apple did back in '84 during the Super Bowl.  Although highly unlikely, what if Apple were to create a new type of computer, not a macintosh, but a new series of systems.  I know it sounds crazy but hey it happened in '84.


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## vanguard (Dec 31, 2001)

Is it still possible to do something like that without the rumor sites catching on?  It seems like it would be easier to keep a secret in 1984 than it is now.

I can't remember anything coming from apple that was a complete surprise in recent years.


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## serpicolugnut (Dec 31, 2001)

The rumor sites have really had a bad run of it 2001. Mac OS Rumors barely posts anymore, and when they do they are usually WAY off. AppleInsider has a better track record, but posts rumors every 6 months or so.

ThinkSecret has been closer to the mark, but they mainly have covered software rumors, and it looks like most of their information comes from leaked betas that are readily found on Carracho and Hotline.


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## serpicolugnut (Dec 31, 2001)

> I can't remember anything coming from apple that was a complete surprise in recent years.



If I remember correctly, nobody anticipated the Cube. Pictures were leaked the day before the day expo, but before that nobody had any inkling that Apple was working on it.


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## twister (Dec 31, 2001)

Heres two articles i got from macnn.com

An Apple power representative for Circuit City sent MacNN an interesting note about the limited availability of iMacs and iBooks noted yesterday. "The iBook 600 is marked 1599.95 any CC product that ends in .96 means it's on it's way out. If it ends in .95 that means it's history. There is also two iMac model price ending in .95." 


Noted Yesterday:
Several readers are reporting CompUSA advertisements with a $200 "price break" on the 550 Megahertz PowerBook G4 Titanium, and a note about iMac and iBooks that says "While supplies last. Limited to stock on hand." In addition, CompUSA employees have reported to MacNN that supply is running low on consumer Mac models, and a new shipment is not expected until the second week of January.

Twister
--getting a new iBook in janurary--


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## dlookus (Dec 31, 2001)

1999s MacWorld NY was a big one.
DP G4s
Cube
Airport
updated iMacs
and they never made a statement about it being a big one.


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## tagliatelle (Dec 31, 2001)

This is the first time that i see something usefull. Thanks!


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## dlookus (Dec 31, 2001)

now that I think about it, Airport may have been the year before.
But still.


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## AlanCE (Dec 31, 2001)

Okay let's think about the digital hub thing along with some of the hardware rumors and recent releases:
iPod - storage
Rumors of huge new LCD orders - displays
GigaWire recently trademarked by apple - networking and peripherals
iMacs - falling out of supply

If I add these things up I get the following:

A base station with keyboard, mouse, power supply, gigawire, and new Airport-II wireless networking at speeds up around 5 times the current 11mbps. The screen is LCD but it is removable and can be written on like a tablet. The screen unit has a 20GB drive built in and maybe the CD/DVD but that's all, it has to dock with the base station to get other functionality. So you end up with a tablet you can walk around the house with which you can write on (Apple's handwriting recognition was so good 5 years ago it was spooky), you can talk to it (MacInTalk is on its way back) or plug in and type to it. You can use your iPod to pull play lists off this thing, and there will be some sort of MPEG-4 hardware device to go along but I'm not sure of the details.

fire away


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## whitesaint (Dec 31, 2001)

man this is insanely great, i really don't think there will be G5's though.  If there is i really hope they boost up all their current G3 models to G4's.  That would be really cool.  Really really cool.  

-whitesaint


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## tagliatelle (Dec 31, 2001)

print "Be More Realistic ---"


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AlanCE _
> *A base station with keyboard, mouse, power supply, gigawire, and new Airport-II wireless networking at speeds up around 5 times the current 11mbps. The screen is LCD but it is removable and can be written on like a tablet. The screen unit has a 20GB drive built in and maybe the CD/DVD but that's all, it has to dock with the base station to get other functionality. So you end up with a tablet you can walk around the house with which you can write on (Apple's handwriting recognition was so good 5 years ago it was spooky), you can talk to it (MacInTalk is on its way back) or plug in and type to it. You can use your iPod to pull play lists off this thing, and there will be some sort of MPEG-4 hardware device to go along but I'm not sure of the details.*



Keep it realistic here, please.  Stick to the current product line -- new PowerMacs (G4 or G5) and new iMacs (probably flat-panel) are a shoo-in, and now it's looking like the iBooks and maybe even the PBG4 will be updated (looks like I might lose the bet  ).  Maybe AppleWorks 7 will come out.  Beyond that, there might be a new digital hub device, but I don't think we should speculate on that.


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## AlanCE (Dec 31, 2001)

"Keep it realistic here, please. Stick to the current product line" and "I don't think we should speculate on that."

 How about you wake up and smell the ozone, as this entire thread is a speculative excercise. I'm uncertain why you want to censor speculation, care to explain yourself?

 In my defense (which is entirely unnecessary), Apple is making an unusually big deal out of this upcoming Macworld. They've also pushed the digital hub/lifestyle idea. If the keynote is merely touting updates to the current products, why the big freakin hooha?
 You feel free to under-guess this upcoming announcement so you can be pleasantly surprised when it is more than you thought; I'll post what I feel is realistic considering:
a) the current devices and technologies available
b) current news surrounding Apple's business partners
c) a "big" event/announcement by apple's standards

If BIG is merely incremental updates to the current lines, Apple is a bunch of @ssholes for hyping it so much.


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

I'm not limiting speculation, I'm being realistic.  If that "base station tablet" or whatever you're talking about comes out, I'll seriously give you $1000, because it's not going to come out.  What you've described is basically a laptop, and Apple already has two of those in its product line.  It would be pointless to make one of those because iBooks are pretty cheap already.


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## AlanCE (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by simX _
> *What you've described is basically a laptop, *



Well not really. I've described something that can be portable around the house, but you can't take it out on the road and do any serious work with it because:
1) it doesn't have a lid to close, it is just a display with a stylus.
2) it doesn't have input jacks for mice and keyboards, although headphones and mic might be there.
3) networking and communication with the base station (where the bulk of the machine's hardware is) is via airport which is allowing you to take it and read web pages while on the crapper, but not letting you take it to work.

I didn't explain it well enough i guess, and i mispoke about the CD/DVD and the hard drive. If you have the screen with you on the couch or in bed or whatever, you still have access (via airport-2) to the base station and all peripherals attached to it. It's not meant to be a laptop you can write on, it's a detachable display with stylus and voice input which is wirelessly networked to the rest of the device. Streaming mp3 and movies from your base station to any room in the house, surfing the same way, fun.

I'm not married to this idea, but apple seems to think they're on the verge of changing the computing world as we know it. 1.6GHz and flat panel imacs don't cut it. They'd be welcome for sure but they wouldn't live up to the hype.


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## whitesaint (Dec 31, 2001)

AlanCE, shut the hell up.  You don't know what the hell you're talking about.  

SimX, i agree with you on an extraordinarily high level.  I remember back at MWNY01 this year, everyone was like "whoa G5's will be there and the new iMac will be so cool! They are also going to have G6's and G7's!"  and it turned out to be  a really boring expo where Steve threw a camera.


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## ScottW (Dec 31, 2001)

All this talk of all this new hardware is awesome... too bad I am too stink'n poor to buy any of it.  I'd settle for an iPod... no can do.

Unemployment sucks... I might start taking up donations of food & clothing. 

Shall we have the first CAN DRIVE to support a website. Wonder if PayPal allows you to donate cans through their service?

Admin


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## MacSub (Dec 31, 2001)

Crap!  

This is truly suicide!

Apple better put-out now!  They don't have much of a choice.


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

Thanks for the vote of confidence whitesaint.  It's nice to know at least someone around here agrees with me (just poking fun, Ed ).  And your comment about MWNY '01 is soooo true.  It did just turn out to be boring where Steve through a camera.   It seems Apple is making up for that boring expo with this one... and I'm glad, because I was actually thinking about going to MWNY to see the flat-panel iMacs.  Suffice it to say, I'm glad I didn't spend all that money on air travel and for the expo, because I wouldn't have had much fun.

I'm glad I live 40 miles from MWSF, where I can go by train, and then catch the MWSF shuttle from the train stop.  Very convenient... I wanna be in the front row for Monday's keynote!


As a margin note, I hope that people have really learned MWNY '01.   I'd hate to see that Apple really does have a big expo, but everyone's disenchanted because they're hoping for some kind of tablet Mac that has no benefit over a laptop.


One comment I saw over at macnn.com about this MWSF banner on Apple's webpage seemed to be a pretty good idea, although I have a lot of doubt about it coming to be.  What the suggestion was, was to have really cheap flat-panel iMacs rounding out the consumer line... all under $1000, or at least almost all.  Then Apple should resurrect the cube, and have the middle of the product line be G4 cubes with Apollo processors, for between $1000-$2000.  Apple would round out the high end of the product line with PowerMac G5 towers, that would start at $2000 and go up from there.

I dunno about you guys, but that seems to me like it would make sense, and it seems pretty realistic with what Apple has right now.  Don't get me wrong, though -- I'm not expecting it at all.  I'd really be surprised if that's what comes out at MWSF.


I really hope that AppleWorks 7 does come out, though, because AppleWorks 6.2.2 just doesn't cut it Mac OS X -- no 255 character filename support, no support for sheets, and a kind of clunky user interface in Aqua.  It would be a welcome upgrade.

That's all I'll speculate about for now.


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## AlanCE (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by whitesaint _
> *AlanCE, shut the hell up.  You don't know what the hell you're talking about. *



I'm afriad I won't be shutting up for you. Really whitesaint, there is no reason for your hostility, please pick up a primer on manners. Drop me an email if you want to talk about this at Macworld, or won't you be there?


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## JohnnyV (Dec 31, 2001)

Let Alan go, he is Thinking Different! Some of you people take these forms too seriously! I like what Alan thought up, you should incourage him to be creative and should be creative yourself! My predictions for the expo:

PowerMacs: low and mid-end G4-1 and 1.2 Ghz. high end G5 at 1.4 ghz.
iMac LCD and maybe G4- 15' starting at 650 mhz and up to 850 or 900
faster iBook with a 14.1' screen
no PowerBook bump!
Possibly and update to the iPod (unlikely tho)
and a new digital lifestyle project (not a PDA!) 

Take it or leave it! Let us think (especially AlanCE)!!! 

Think Different, Act Different, Be Different; Put a dent in the universe!


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## vanguard (Dec 31, 2001)

AlanCE,

Say what you want.  This thread is exactly the type of place where you can make wild predictions.  

whitesaint,

Yeah, Steve bombed in MWNY01 but that's not our fault.  Apple didn't get much done and *everybody* was underwhelmed.  Apple needs to manage expectations better than they did.  They bombed because they had nothing to show, not because sticking an LCD screen on a computer is too much to ask for.

Just to piss off people who hate day dreaming, I bet Apple comes out with a teleporter as seen on Star Trek.  I'm not sure if it will come in brushed metal or fruity colors but it will definately help with my daily commute.  Also, it will cure all the world's diseases with each transport.

And for his, "One more thing" annoucement, he'll bring cartoon characters to life.  I can't wait, I'm going to meet Princess Fiona from Shrek.


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## ksv (Dec 31, 2001)

Ah, and WHY shouldn't it be a PDA, eeh? 
And, that GigaWire think, that HAS to be FireWire @ 1 Gbps, don't you think so? (yes, 1 gigaBIT per second, not gigaBYTE of course


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## ksv (Dec 31, 2001)

Or, maybe it's iPid, a complete stereo/DVD player with an iPod dock, SmartMedia, SSD, MMC, and ComplactFlash slots, OS X Lite, a 512x384 pixel screen and a 160 GB HD for storing 40000 MP3's  hah hah hah


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## AlanCE (Dec 31, 2001)

cooooooool.


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## mindbend (Dec 31, 2001)

I challenge you all to an accuracy contest. The winner gets bragging rights for a week. Seeing as how I never can guess who's getting voted off "Survivor", I doubt I'll get any of these right.

Anyways, here's list:

NO FLAT PANEL iMACS!!!--That's right, I think this myth has been overhyped way too much. It will not happen (feel free to laugh in my face when they show up).

NO G5s!!! But...
New G4 lineup=
G4 800SP $1500
G4 1.1 SP $2500
G4 1.4 DP $3500
Gigawire, DDRAM, Airpot II and 400 MHZ bus in new G4s.

No new flat panels, but a price drop on the big ones.

iPod enhancement of some sort. Some kind of software interface thing. I can't tell exactly what, but I see it in my crystal ball. It will be mildly cool.

Some sort of new product entirely. It will end the show. Not a PDA, but maybe a Tivo sort of thing. How's that for specific? I'm a freakin' Nostradamus! I'm all, "Something will happen at some time in some way sort of." Wow, I'm a genius!

And what's with this Appleworks 7 crap? How can you people continue to use that amature suite? Just ribbing yaz. But seriously, I don't know how anyone can work in a professional environment without Office, like it or not.


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by mindbend _
> *And what's with this Appleworks 7 crap? How can you people continue to use that amature suite? Just ribbing yaz. But seriously, I don't know how anyone can work in a professional environment without Office, like it or not. *



"Appleworks 7 crap?" Hahahahahahahahahaha.  HAHAHAHAhahahahahaha...

*** simX wipes tears from his face.

Nice joke.  Oh... that was pretty funny....

*** simX wipes more tears from his face.

Ohhh... geez.

Anyway, like I said -- I hope AW 7 comes out with sheet support and long filename support -- or at least a 6.5 that gives these two features.

By the way, I don't get you guys talking about "Airport II".  *IT'S ALREADY OUT.*  Remember when Apple released the new base stations that have the extra Ethernet support, AOL support, and 128-bit encryption support as well?  Remember how Apple released the Airport 2.0 software over the Software Update control panel?  That is Airport 2, guys.  It's not going to be updated at MWSF.


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## ksv (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by mindbend _
> *I challenge you all to an accuracy contest. The winner gets bragging rights for a week. Seeing as how I never can guess who's getting voted off "Survivor", I doubt I'll get any of these right.
> 
> Anyways, here's list:
> ...



Ye, but I'll bet 1 GHz iMacs will show up, you know, the 1 GHz G3 processor was released a long time ago, so why shouldn't Apple se it? 
And, maybe GigaWire, "FireWire II"?...
And what about an entirely NEW computer, it's a long time since any new designs have appeared, maybe a new iMac or iBook, or PowerBook?... The Powerbook design hasn't been updated in a year!


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## vanguard (Dec 31, 2001)

I'll try it.

- Flat Panel iMac
- G5 processor that's actually a slightly enhanced G4
- Faster clock speeds on every processor with the top speed being 1.2 ghtz
- New entertainment hub device that's actually a low end mac in a cool case  (this is the "one more thing")
- iBook with higher clock speeds and more ram standard
- dates for a couple of software packages, including dreamweaver


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## tagliatelle (Dec 31, 2001)

Rather confused this threat!
Don't listen to your own speculations!


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## JakPuma (Dec 31, 2001)

Just who makes these Apollo G4s?  And i need a webpage not just a company name!


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## KrinkleCut (Dec 31, 2001)

Wow, SimX, you slay me. 

Touting Appleworks over Office, blaming a corporation (that's right, not some friendly ma and pa 'company' that smiles when it answers your phone calls, but a corporation whose mandate is, surprise, surprise, to separate you from your money) for 'letting you down', shushing people so that they don't think too loud and make Apple look bad. You 'almost' flew to MWNY to see the LCD iMacs? Wow, good thing for Apple you didn't - would have been a class action suit! And let me guess, you can't understand why Apple doesn't make X for wintel boxes... Hahaha!

Hey, quick, over there, I think I see a dead horse! Why don't you get on and ride awhile?


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## boi (Jan 1, 2002)

gak, hostile waters ahead. i hope i can say what i think, rather, hope, will happen in a week, without immature name-calling.

i think the way imac revolutionized the computer world, as such will the imac2 lcd whatever revolutionize the computer world (again). it won't look like an old imac with an lcd screen, rather something we're not even thinking of. something unique, like the detachable screen + stylus concept that was mentioned before. perhaps the imac2 will look like the current lcd monitors, only about 2x the thickness? that would be pretty slick. i think the wireless monitor/keyboard/mouse/everything idea will come, just not any time soon.

but maybe we're too hardware minded. maybe apple is just really excited about the ps7 release, or some other piece of software that will aid X in becoming the greatest OS ever created.

it sure is fun speculating! i'm saving my pennies!

i've got my pass to MWSF, but i don't have the money to book a room/flight. ah well, the pass looks cool, anyway, with my name printed on it and all ^_^.

laters, haters.
=- boi.


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## simX (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KrinkleCut _
> *Wow, SimX, you slay me.
> 
> Touting Appleworks over Office*



It actually is better.

*



			blaming a corporation (that's right, not some friendly ma and pa 'company' that smiles when it answers your phone calls, but a corporation whose mandate is, surprise, surprise, to separate you from your money) for 'letting you down'
		
Click to expand...

*
When did I say that?  You know, usually you use quotes when you actually quote someone.  But who are quoting here?  Fill me in, please.  Oh, by the way, ma and pa "companies" also want your money.  What else would they be in business for?

*



			shushing people so that they don't think too loud and make Apple look bad.
		
Click to expand...

*
No, so that they don't get their expectations too high.  I'm being realistic.

*



			You 'almost' flew to MWNY to see the LCD iMacs? Wow, good thing for Apple you didn't - would have been a class action suit!
		
Click to expand...

*
Mm, no.  Probably not.

*



			And let me guess, you can't understand why Apple doesn't make X for wintel boxes... Hahaha!
		
Click to expand...

*
No, actually, I know why they don't.  Because they make Macs.

*



			Hey, quick, over there, I think I see a dead horse! Why don't you get on and ride awhile?
		
Click to expand...

*
Nah, that would be pretty gross.

So...... tell me..... exactly _what_ was the point of your rant?  Oh, wait... there was none.



Now to get back on topic from that totally idiotic detour that KrinkleCut introduced, if you look on Apple's web page today, it now says "Count the days.  Count the minutes.  Count on being blown away."  Apple sure is hyping this expo.


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## whitesaint (Jan 1, 2002)

Dayum!  I just was at Apple's website and now it says: "6 days to MacWorld San Francisco.  Count the days.  Count the minutes.  Count on being blown away."  It seems like they have somthing really really good here.

-whitesaint


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## tagliatelle (Jan 1, 2002)

Scream If You Wanna Go Faster!


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## doublejoint (Jan 1, 2002)

well I think Allen and Johnny 5 are going the right way with their ideas and creative thinking.  Apple is not going to let us down by mere upgraded products.  They've got to have something totally new.  And by the way, Allen's idea about that tablet with the mothership and stuff I think is totally possible technology-wise.  Not to say that that's what we're going to get, but I think only a creative thinker is going to come close to predicting what kind of treat we're in for in six days.  Apple is the most inovative and artistic computer company to ever grace this planet, and when they're hyping something up like this, then I'm sure they're going to deliver.


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## theCaptain (Jan 1, 2002)

This is crazy, this is crazy!  Apple sure has got something cooking alright, its been a long time since they hyped something so much.   They are fixing to blow us away with this new product!


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## The_Librarian (Jan 1, 2002)

...but I think no one mentionned an major osX update (10.2), as there IS room for improvement (even if it's the BEST OS in the world ).
My guess : both software (sth more exciting than PS7, lots of people don't care) and hardware (something really different, not a mere upgrade, at least a leap) announcements. I won't speculate, some people here (i'm not blaming them ) have a better imagination.


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## ksv (Jan 1, 2002)

What about a completely NEW mac? Not a PowerMac, iMac, iBook or PowerBook... just something ELSE? Maybe a mac with built-in LCD display, with an other name? Why should it be an iMac?...

Aah, I can't wait!


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## ulrik (Jan 1, 2002)

If they release the G5 the HAVE to release an OS update, everything else is not possible, since the G5 (if it is the G5 Motorola is developing and not the Apollo G4 named G5) is a 64 bit processor and Apple doesn't own a 64 bit OS. That's the problem Intel has at the moment with the Itanium! Great architecture, 64 bit but at the moment, it only runs with a special Intel 64 bit Linux version. So IF they release the true G5, they have to release another OS update. It would be like when the PowerPC was released. There would be apps for the 64 bit OS X and for the 32 bit OS X 

Anyway, it's gonna be a big show!

Oh, nearly forgot: Nobody mentioned a possible Quicktime 6, and I am perfectly sure nVidia will introduce a new graphic chipset...


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## The_Librarian (Jan 1, 2002)

I read somewhere that GeForce4 was indeed scheduled for january. Hey maybe ATI will finally release a mac version of their Radeon8500, and with good drivers too


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## edX (Jan 1, 2002)

well, i don't think that it's too much to believe that much of the hype may be around the release of third party support for osx!! new hardware, new software and abilites to do things we never have before!! A big, co-ordinated  release of true integration would be  very big deal I think.

or maybe Bill Gates is going to make a surprise visit and admit that he really loves macs - uses them all the time at home.


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## ksv (Jan 1, 2002)

At least he USED one at his office, I've heard


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## fryke (Jan 1, 2002)

okay...

the G5 would NOT need a total revamp of the OS to 64 bit. It has 32 bit compatibility. It would mean that the G5's power could not be used at full extent from the beginning. I don't know whether this would be possible, but why not recompile *just* the kernel and some stuff for 64 bit with other stuff running 32 bit compatible mode?

but that's not *our* problem, as long as they *do* release the G5. but I must say I'd also embrace Apollo G4s at over 1 GHz.  ... Bus/RAM speed improvement and GigaWire are more important than the G5 to me at the moment.. The G5 will come any way, be it in January, March or July.

OS 10.2 has been known to be in EARLY development and Apple has *said* that they don't wanna rush OS builds out of the house. Of course that could have been propaganda only, but I don't believe so, so 10.2 is still some time away. And the 'normal' date would be March, not January, so I guess 10.2 will be released at MWNY in July.

The LCD iMac could be the big thing they mean. But then it's gotta really rock.

A PDA? Let's say we *don't* want one, maybe then they'll make one.  We've wanted a Newton successor all these years and Steve never said 'okay' to it. Not in public, anyway.

What else would be a possibility?

Let's start a rumour here. An expectation they will *not* meet. 

I heard they're going to release Mac OS X 10.1 for PC Compatibles. A source that wants to stay anonymous confirmed that Apple never stopped churning out builds of Rhapsody for PC Compatbiles internally. The last confirmed build was 5R10, which will be 10.1.3. Apple puts very much energy in building the operating system for both PPC and Intel/AMD processors at the same time. Later PC Compatible builds are said to finally sport the Carbon API, although most applications will need updates. Early beta builds of AppleWorks are still a bit flaky and crash a lot, but this ought to be sorted out by January 7. Apple will release 10.1.3 for PPC via Software Update on January 7, the PC Compatible version will be available from Apple's Online Store the same day, although it won't be delivered until the beginning of February, because packaging can only begin when the build is finalized. The iMac II will be available with G3 processors starting at 900 MHz, the high end configuration however will not be the 1.13 GHz 'Sahara' G3 but rather an AMD XP 1400+, a processor Apple can get at much lower prices than the high end G3. Hmm... And the slogan for the G5 in July? "Yes, there's Mac OS X for PC Compatibles, but the G5 is three times as fast than any 'competitive' chip."


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## doublejoint (Jan 1, 2002)

I think apple is talking about something more impressive than speed here.  All this talk about G5's is great and stuff, but speed increases happen every six months in this industry.  This is going to be something waaayy cooler than just a faster mac.


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## ulrik (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *okay...
> 
> the G5 would NOT need a total revamp of the OS to 64 bit. It has 32 bit compatibility. It would mean that the G5's power could not be used at full extent from the beginning. I don't know whether this would be possible, but why not recompile *just* the kernel and some stuff for 64 bit with other stuff running 32 bit compatible mode?
> ...


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## vanguard (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Of course this would be possible, but why would somebody buy a G5 now? Every sane person would wait till enough 64 bit apps would be available. It's like OS X would not come with classic. 70% of the Mac users would not even now use it.
> *



I'd buy it.  This happens in the PC world all the time.  When Intel released the MMX extensions nothing used it yet.  When they released the Pentium III nothing used it's extensions yet.  Same with the Pentium IV and AMD's multimedia stuff.

People buy chips like that because the want to "future proof" their machines.

On the other hand, you did say "sane" person.


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## ulrik (Jan 1, 2002)

There is a BIG difference between a new instruction set (like MMX) and the jump to 64 bit! Man, 64 bit means new laws! It's like the physical laws of our world change! That's what it's like when you change from 32 to 64 bit! 

No offence, but this comparison is so very wrong!

I think Apple has to make clear what it means when a CPU or an OS makes the step to 64 bit so people realize what it means.

Then again of course I know people would buy a G5. Damnit, I would order one the very next day! I have the money saved since the last keynote! 
I think "sane" person doesn't translate to us Mac fanatics very well


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## Snyper M (Jan 1, 2002)

Ok I'm willing to put forth my guesses, though lamentably it's a shot in the dark...

Speedbumped G4s 1.0, 1.2, and 1.4 ghz
Gigawire will make it's presence known
DDRAM will probably work it's way into then ew systems as well.

Some update for the iPod or a totally new device altogether
Your guess is as good as mine on that front
I doubt it would be a camera despite al lthe fairly convinincing calls for an iPhoto sort of thing.  I doubt they'd jump into the PDA market, as much as I'd love to see it, so that doesn't leave me anywhere else to go but to say it'll be a portable iPoddish thing for video using QUICKTIME 6 ... mpeg4 etc.

And of course I think we'll see a flatscreen iMac, most indications do seem to point to it.

Anyway Those are just off the top of my head for them ost part.  They don't seem to wild or anything so I'd say there's a realisitc chance of them occuring.  Lemme know what you think.


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## cpk0 (Jan 1, 2002)

I dont see why no one has mentioned a Intel-based powerpc yet...its seems so feasible...Oh wait...no

Ok, so i guess ill say there will be the flatpanel iMac, but i think mabey we will so internal improvents as well like 133mHz ram bus, i doubt we will see a move to DDRAM in apple's lowend desktop. 

Gigawire will be a ubiquitous standard all around if we do see it, but im tempted to say we might not see it in the iBook right away.

Im not sure about QT6, cause if they were gonna release that, they would have based FCP3 on it and released 'em at the same time (which would been sweet, but hey what can ya do)

Prolly, hopefully, see a move to DDRAM in the G4(5) series, and most likely with the redesigned MoBo, we will see a much higher RAM-cap, mabey doubled to liek 3gig. 

Anyone think we will see a new G4 case design too, i mean when you are on a roll why stop at the iMac...mabey it will be smaller, or something, cause of the redesigned MoBo. 

Dont think we will see X.2 because...just because... We cant expect them to pump out new versions that fast, unless they've secretly liek quadrupled their workforce.

I think we will see DVD-R(W) in the highend iMac, or at least be an option. And i think apple may start bundling the iPod with some systems, calling it external, convinient storage.

Ok, enough for now, but I'll be back...


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## vanguard (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ulrik _
> *There is a BIG difference between a new instruction set (like MMX) and the jump to 64 bit! Man, 64 bit means new laws! It's like the physical laws of our world change! That's what it's like when you change from 32 to 64 bit!
> 
> No offence, but this comparison is so very wrong!
> *



No offense but it sounds like you should brush up on your microprocessor architecture.  MMX extensions are 64 bit so the comparison is right on target.  The replacement to MMX instructions, SSE instructions, are 128 bit.  The earth didn't shake when either were introduced and each is just as important as Altivec.  (They do pretty much the same thing.)

Actually, it's improper to brand a CPU as "xxx" bit.  So many parts of the CPU work with different sized registers.  While some of the G4 is 32 bit, as you pointed out, other parts are 64 bit and others are 128 bit. They Altivec implementation is 128 bit (and it's impressive but still hampered by it's clock speed).

Anyway, as long as the chip is backwards compatible I don't see why you can't just release it.  The do it all the time in the x86 world and the physical laws of our world have remained constant according to my observations.

Vanguard


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## The Madhatter (Jan 2, 2002)

My best friends cousin has worked for Apple (actually it was an internship) since the beginning of the summer.  When my friend went to Nebraska for their family Christmas, his cousin went on and on about how freaking awesome this new machine is.  He even confirmed it was a flat panel iMac, but was adamant about the fact that it was NOTHING like machines such as the Gateway Profile (an all-in-one flat screen computer).
So that is what I'll put my money on, but I sure hope there is more than that because I've never seen hype like this from Apple, and I don't believe they are stupid enough to lead us on that bad.  I would love X.2 that was as fast as OS 9.
Come on Apple, surprise us...


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## Krevinek (Jan 2, 2002)

Lemme say this, FCP3 will take advantage of QT6 once QT6 is in the machine. The API into QT hasn't changed much to really warrant an app like FCP3 needing to be optimized, and QT6 isn't going to be groundbreaking in the API department. Apple could slam MPEG-4 file format support into QT6 and all QT-based apps would benefit. Nice, isn't it?

On the topic of 32 -> 64 bit changeovers, Motorola already explained that the G5 was compatible with the previous 32 bit instruction set AT FULL SPEED. So why not release the G5 when possible? People who don't wait for the 64 bit apps won't really see a difference, and for the most part, there won't be a difference, even when 90% of the apps are 64 bit compliant. The difference will be system routines optimized to take advantage of the wider 64 bit register moves and so on. Non-Altivec blitting will see a nice boost, so will other apps that move a lot of memory. 64 bit registers really don't do that much good except in being able to accurately describe large integers above 2 billion, and more accurate floating point without a speed loss. Some will like this, some won't see much come out of it.

As a side note: MacOS X will never quite reach the 'speed' of OS 9. The front app in OS 9 usually chugs a good 90+% of the CPU. MacOS X prevents this through pre-emptive multithreading, which has overhead, and prevents apps from being able to poll. That said, there are ways to improve performance to get darn close (changing whole design paradigms from co-op to pre-emptive), but there will always be something preventing it from being perfectly on par (except for the fact that OS 9 had become rather bloated with add-ons, and may not be optimal, but Apple seemed to stomp most of the optimization problems out of 9.2.x). Not to mention the fact Apple has already stated that OS X 10.2 won't be out until mid year. A build number of 6B11 within the past couple of weeks shows this is the case.


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## simX (Jan 2, 2002)

Look on Apple's website!  It says it right there: "Beyond the rumor sites.  Way beyond."

Who else is thinking 1984 redux?


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## rfraley (Jan 2, 2002)

Saith Apple.com

"Beyond the rumor sites.  Way beyond."

Goddamn...it better be big now!


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## rfraley (Jan 2, 2002)

Reality distortion field in full effect!!!


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## simX (Jan 2, 2002)

If on the day before the expo, Apple's website says "Think 1984.  Only this is 2002.", I will seriously be pissing in my pants.


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## Dekatophil (Jan 2, 2002)

Alrighty then. The flat-panel iMac thingumajig will be startling. I mean it's going to be something (somewhat) really new.
Besides, I think "big" refers to a 16"+ TiBook.

That's gonna be it.
Or not... ?

-What really strikes is the lack of leakage.

Side note: rfraley, is that WinXP ???


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## rfraley (Jan 2, 2002)

Especially if the G5 comes out.


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## Dekatophil (Jan 2, 2002)

>Especially if the G5 comes out<

Would be great. For you, for me, for the community.


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## Dekatophil (Jan 2, 2002)

this is major !
they revamped the apple store...


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## Dekatophil (Jan 2, 2002)

>Especially if the G5 comes out<

Would be great. For you, for me, for the community.


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## simX (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dekatophil _
> *this is major !
> they revamped the apple store... *



You're right.  And it looks good.


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## ulrik (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vanguard _
> *
> 
> No offense but it sounds like you should brush up on your microprocessor architecture.  MMX extensions are 64 bit so the comparison is right on target.  The replacement to MMX instructions, SSE instructions, are 128 bit.  The earth didn't shake when either were introduced and each is just as important as Altivec.  (They do pretty much the same thing.)*


*

Oh, there is a rather big difference if you have a 128 bit unit for SIMD 
operations, like the Altivec, and a TRUE 64 bit processor.

You can actually only use these units if you have to execute the very same command for several times. That's what the SIMD is all about. But if you have  a native 64 bit environment for all your operations, that is a big difference.

*


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## slur (Jan 2, 2002)

Man, this sounds very very interesting.  I've seen reports about flat panel iMacs and G5s on the rumor sites, so apparently Apple wants us to believe something else - or something more is coming.

I won't rule out the flat panel iMac, but there's got to be something special about it.  For one thing I think Apple may be ready to drop the G3 across the whole product line.  It's 2002 now - the time has come.

As far as I know gigabit Ethernet is still expensive, so I don't think it's possible for Apple to drop 10/100 completely yet.

Apple has been working for some time trying to get the graphics cards to somehow natively support the layering and effects in Aqua.  I believe they've had enough time to work this out and it's possible we might see some amazing new capabilities added to Aqua that take advantage of new graphics cards.  I'd go even further than that, in fact, and speculate that such a card would also incorporate font rendering and display PostScript as well, with full support for Quartz rendering on the surfaces of 3D objects.

There will be a revolutionary new 3D architecture able to render objects built from bezier curves in 3D space and generate various surface maps and deformations from procedural / fractal waveforms.  The composite result of all these new technologies will be objects that lose no detail no matter how much you magnify them.

As long as we're Thinking Different, I'm going to imagine the ultimate combination of all these factors, with DDR RAM, an amazing new BUS architecture, and perhaps a new slot architecture to replace the venerable 4x AGP thrown in for good measure.  All these amazing new features will live in an expandable box larger than the Cube that connects to a digital flat-panel specially made for the new machine.

In the spirit of ultimate integration the new display architecture will include a built-in television / radio tuner and DVD decoder, on-board DivX support, and the further capability of rendering any of these video sources directly on the surfaces of 3D objects.

Apple won't stop there, of course.  Taking advantage of new developments in holographic storage technology the new Macs will have no hard drives.  Instead all data will be optically stored into a crystal lattice in a cube made of artificial diamand doped with gallium arsenide.  Each 1cm x 1cm x 1cm cube will hold 32 terabytes of information.  Data transfer to and from this new storage meduim will be instantaneous.

Not content to stop with AltiVec, Apple will make use of their secret research in neural networks to bring us the first computer that can process analogies in natural language.  The new Inference Engine won't process the kind of data that need bit-level accuracy but will instead be capable of taking creative routes and making strong intuitive guesses.  Because it's a Neural Network it will learn from you as you work, adapting to your style of working.  Before long your Mac will be able to guess what you want - before you want it.

As if that wasn't enough, Apple engineers will come on-stage to personally unveil the most advanced Quantum Computer ever built.  IBM's recently-announced seven-atom Quantum Computer can only solve one simple problem.  The Apple Quantum Engine will be able to compute all possible combinations of any problem in zero-time, making all existing encryption methods obsolete.

A special hub will connect the Quantum Computer, Neural Network, and Holographic Storage together in a unique way that allows them to share data freely.  Photoshop operations that take two minutes on a 2GHz Pentium IV will occur instantaneously on the new Power Macintosh QNH.  Final Cut Pro will render transitions and effects - you guessed it - instantaneously.  Virtual PC 5 on the new machines will run Windows 6 times faster than the fastest Athlon.

At the end of the Keynote Steve will appear to walk off stage - but suddenly come running back.  "Oh wait," he'll say with a sparkle in his eye, "There's one more thing I almost forgot."  At this point Bill Gates will be wheeled out on a gurney strapped down with piano wire.  To the amazement of everyone Bill will smile and announce that he has decided to make his greatest contribution to the Mac community, the sacrifice of his putrescent miserable life.  At which point the entire audience will erupt into a riot, demanding that Bill simply have his limbs amputated and chanting "Poor misguided Bill! It's Ballmer we want to kill!"


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## ksv (Jan 2, 2002)

Maybe they're going to give out free iMacs to all mac users?...


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## ksv (Jan 2, 2002)

hehe, slur


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## dlookus (Jan 2, 2002)

I think the new iMac is going to be what some speculated the iPod would be. It will be the center of your home entertainment system:

computer+Tivo+MP3 server

I'm sure a lot of people want something like this.

Maybe it can us your TV as a second monitor. OSX should be able to handle creating overlays for your TV (for program info or an iTunes diplay perhaps).

Maybe it has a remote that will work with iTunes and your other AV components. This would be pretty handy.

What do you think?


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## chevy (Jan 2, 2002)

Apple has 2 strong points: Software and Design.

Apple hardware is not high end, it's just expensive. So I shall most probably no be impressed by some new hardware. Even flat screen iMacs. If you once have seen the portable computers that Japanese use on their work place, the iBook or PowerBook look like big fat old timers. Same for G4... even 2 G4 don't beat the fastest Pentium, and the Pentium is less expensive.

No, the string point is software: the one you have as system (OS 10), the one you run on your machine (voice and handwriting recognition), and the one you access through the web (iTools).

The other strong point is design (Mac OS... again, 1984 Mac Plus, iMac, Cube, iPod, and even Newton). And I keep telling that we don't know what the iPod can do. It has 2 ARM MCU... this is enough for real time MP3 and GSM... or GPS... or ? Do it communicate wireless ? Not yet. But why ?

Therefore a revolution, if it includes hardware, it will be there only to enable new services.


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## Tigger (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Daeyin _
> *
> or are they keeping a tight lid to keep expectations low so we are not dissapointed?
> *


Hm, I think they would be doing a bad job on that with their hype "Prepare to be blown away"

I tried not to believe in the rumors of the G5 being shown on the Expo, and I didn't expect to see a TFT-iMac.
But now, after having visited the Apple site today...

I hope Apple does not only blow hot air...

Now, as I think of it... "Prepare to be blown away" --> Hot air?


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## Tigger (Jan 2, 2002)

I hope the G5 is blue!


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## Dekatophil (Jan 2, 2002)

> Apple hardware is not high end, it's just expensive


It is high end in quite a few respects.



> Same for G4... even 2 G4 don't beat the fastest Pentium, and the Pentium is less expensive


???

This is plainly untrue. Wassup ?
I entirely dissagree. Wonder where you testd those dual G4s against the "fatest pentium" (surpressing giggles).


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## chevy (Jan 2, 2002)

I know my claims are aggressive, and may not be completely true in every single case, but... please Apple demonstrate me the opposite.

Look in any technical paper for comparisons between Mac speed and PC speed on any regular operation. You will not find many operations tat are faster on Mac.

Now understand me correctly, it doesn't mean the Mac is bad. It means that the Mac strengths are somewhere else. Anyhow, any processor today is much faster than needed for most operations. Only some very heavy graphics and games may require more than the capabilities of our current CPU. Even my 300 MHz G3 is strong enough for most usage. So working on software and services is far more important than hardware acceleration. And even a 2GHz G5 will not look sexy enough for me after the Apple advertisement. I want a new software... new services... something different... a revolution !


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## vanguard (Jan 2, 2002)

Chevy is completely correct.  While a dual g4 can outperform a top end Pentium in some catagories, for the most part it is slower.  

It goes without saying that a dual g4 can not outperform a dual Athlon setup (1900+) in anything.

I love macs too, but I wouldn't choose them for the massively parallel supercomputer I will use to take over the world.  Now where the hell is Pinky?  (Cartoon reference for those of you didn't get it)


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## Krevinek (Jan 2, 2002)

The G4 is still 'king' in vector unit enhanced floating point, but AMD's latest offerings narrow the gap so thin, it doesn't matter. However, if Motorola could get G4s running at the same speed, or even better, the G5... well, let's just say AMD and Intel would look rather slow. One of the things that held Motorola back is the desire for low-power, low-heat chips. The time required to spawn chips at the clock speeds of AMD/Intel is longer, but you get a better overall chip out of it. Hell, fanless laptops are a result of this... and you don't even have to turn down the clock speed when disconnected from a power supply. (Most laptops rated 1Ghz or faster in the PC market actually run at about 700Mhz when off a battery, if you want to or not)

What I really hope for is that this 'ground-breaking' expo revamps the entire product line with some really nice changes. The design could be tweaked a bit (I actually like the current PBG4 design myself), but I want to see some major revamping of the internals. Rumors were awash awhile back of a new bus running at 400Mhz with the ability to push over 12GB/sec. Something like that would give a great boost to the performance of the machine, especially if DDR RAM was used.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 2, 2002)

"We're Pinky, we're Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain....."

that show was awesome!


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## mindbend (Jan 2, 2002)

OK, that's just plain cruel.

"Beyond the Rumor Sites. Way Beyond."

It gets worse as the days progress! I hope Apple knows what they are doing, because we can be a tough crowd. 

There's only one thing I want, and that's a major freaking fast CPU. I don't need an all-in-one iMac flat panel thing (though, that's cool if other people want it). And I don't want digital lifestyle hub of my universe stuff (though the iPod is really growing on me, I may just give in on that little bugger). 

I want to elminate the word "render" from my vocabulary. I want to never again say "launch", since it implies an action that takes time. I want my machine to never again form the pixel animation of a rotating beach ball. I want it all instantly.

Having said that, I would agree with a former post that many machines in existence are good enough for many typical tasks. It is my belief that we are at the top of a hill of computer sales that will gradually decline until nobody needs a new machine for the rest of their lives.


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## JohnnyV (Jan 2, 2002)

Mindbend I've been saying that for years.  I can't wait for the day when computers will be instantous. Click, blink, its there. However the time when we will no longer need to buy new computers is still decades away It probably won't come until we get qauntum 'smart' computers, but by then we will all be gone


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## Fragger (Jan 2, 2002)

As JohnnyV noted... quantum computing may be the end... but those won't be good for linear processes.. and things like rendering. So for those of us who will drive for one hundred trillion trillion polygons per second and a googoflop (terraflop, move over!). We want that to be able to play quake 18 arena and have somebody's body splatter so realistically that you slip on bits.

Never will the personal computer market be obsolete, after all.. who would be there to make the iPoof and Carbon Fiber Composite .1 inch thick PowerBook G27.34  (and do we think intel will give up on it's profits???  )

But if it ever does happen, at least Apple's won't break after a year of usage!!!

happy macworld,
graham


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## boomw (Jan 2, 2002)

This sounds like a pot induced hallucination, but is within the realm of possibility that Apple will introduce new boxes running on AMD or Intel chips? It should be possible and what with the production issues from Motorola and IBM it does sound intriguing to me. I guess the only thing that brings me back to reality is the megahertz myth business. I don't know, but that would be crazy. I'd probably freak out. Think about the millions of curious PC users out there who would give a shot, that's all it would take really.
It's a silly idea. OK, I'm shutting up now.
Peace,
B.


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## Fragger (Jan 2, 2002)

hehe.. I think many of us would question reality that day.. and play a damn lot of Quake, +some bloody mods...

that wouldn't be thinking very differently would it?

graham


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## boomw (Jan 2, 2002)

I wonder why this message posted twice? Huh. So I'm late to the party on the Intel/AMD speculation. Now what about a partnership with Sony. I've read that around. It would make some sense. I don't think that's it either.
I'm still a little put off my Epson's slow show of support. Course, I have terrible luck picking a printer that will withstand several upgrades. I had the Apple ColorStyleWriter 4100. The OS 9 update took over 6 months. By that time I had already purchased the Epson 850N. The joke is definitely on me. Then there's the fact that ATI and Apple are flipping me off on drivers for an already middleweight video card (PowerBook G3 384RAM). 
Done ranting.
I've been caught up in the hype since menu items became sticky.
I thought that was pretty dammed neat.


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## ksv (Jan 3, 2002)

Hmm... Apple + Microsoft?...


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