# So I was playing w/ WinXP yesterday....



## thedbp (Dec 27, 2001)

Oh man, what a piece of garbarge.

First of all, the interface is absolutely nauseating.  I felt like I was in preschool playing with those giant Legos.

Its completely obvious the Microsoft wants you to have an "MS"-only XPereince.  The entire thing felt hacked together, like a Frankenstein OS.  And they ripped off the Mac once again, putting all the Control Panels into a submenu of the start menu  something the Mac has had since System 7, for crying out loud.  I can't believe it took them that long to catch on that their Control Panel access sucked the proverbial ass.

As ever, the taskbar is a cluttered mess, and the on-screen text is wince-inducing.  All in all, it really is an ugly, counter-intuitive mess.

And to make matters worse, a sales rep at Best Buy was telling some poor schmoe that if he bought this laptop with 256MB of RAM, he'd have to upgrade the RAM immediately because 256 isn't enough to do anything with.  EXCUSE ME  I have 256 MB of RAM on a 5 YEAR OLD POWERMAC that i use to record 16-Track Digital Audio!!!!!  I wanted to slap that know-nothing bastard.

Maybe that's why retailers don't like stocking Macs - the customer base is too smart to fall for their marketing and sales ploys.


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## StarScream (Dec 27, 2001)

Hallo There, 

I totaly agree with your XPerience of that piece of crap that they call a Operation System ( thanks alot Billy Gates :-( )

I have question for you , i saw that u use your old centris as you answering machine .... What kind of software do you use for it ??? I want to have one to for my old and trusty PPC 9600 server...... 

Greetings from Starscream from the netherlands



my spects : PPC G4 400 / 512 mb / 20 GB / OS 10.1.0.2 & OS 9.2.2
A Applevision 850 for my G4 
PPC 9600 350 / 96 mb / 4 GB / OS 9.1


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## thedbp (Dec 27, 2001)

Its and Hardware-Software thing 

I'm using Apple's never-quite-finished Apple Telecom solution. Basically, you need an Geoport Telecom Adapter (a modem interface that you can usually find on eBay for about $10) and the Apple Telecom software version 3.0.1 (actually I forget the entire version number, but its the last one they released, available from Apple's FTP servers - try going to http://www.pure-mac.com for a link to it). 

It works pretty well! Not only does it have an answering machine, it also acts as a speakerphone and a fax machine. All in all, pretty cool stuff! it should work great on a 9600, I had it running on an 8600 and it was smooth as butter. I'd recommend sticking to an older OS though, as OS 9 has some issues with these modems and the software. It was a tad unreliable under 9 on the 8600 (but not to say unusable), but using 7.6.1 it flew and worked great. Please note that Apple never finished working the bugs out of this software and eventually dropped the entire Geoport concept, which was a shame as it was supercool technology, especially for the time it was around. 

BTW, does anyone here keep older PowerMacs running any version of 7x around? From my experience they work great, boot insanely fast, and still retain compatibility with a bunch of newer apps (although that last statement becomes less true every passing second). 

sheeee ya


__________________
B&W G3/350/1024/9.2, X.1.1 
8600/300/256/9.1 
Performa 6300/48/9.1 
Quadra660/52/NetBSD, 8.1 
Centris660/24/7.6.1 <---- my answering machine


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 27, 2001)

Well, i have Never Used a Mac, Besides a bout 1 min on my mate's iBook...! 

but u Can Get Used 2 Windows XP... Esp if u've never XP'd (sorry bout the PUN) hardly anything Else, Besides Linux! 

But my Machine Runs Very nicely as 0.9Ghz, 768MB RAM (133Mhz)
GF3 Ti 500 etc...

But... i am going 2 Get a Mac this Yr... Just Cus i am Curious...! 

u might have seen this... here's my Desktop ... 

NeYo

U Have 2 Admit though... Windows XP is a Step in the right Direction... i honestly hate going 2 College, to see Crappy old Windows Classic GUI!? i HATE Grey! Ewww...


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## ulrik (Dec 27, 2001)

IS THE WHOLE DAMN WINDOWS WORLD POSTING IN "PHONETICS"-FORM?

Damn, this XP-phonetics-stuff is really weired...

the Linux guys play with pengiuns, the FreeBSD folks are all satans, the windows guys can't write plain text...hell, it's good to know we Mac folks are best of them all...tolerant, realistic...all over nice folks 

What was that about sarcasm-smileys?

Seriously, this was just a joke, nobody feel attacked, ok?


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ulrik _
> *IS THE WHOLE DAMN WINDOWS WORLD POSTING IN "PHONETICS"-FORM?
> 
> Damn, this XP-phonetics-stuff is really weired...
> ...



Eh?! tut tut! ?

Neyo


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## ulrik (Dec 27, 2001)

wheeeeeee


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 27, 2001)

Eh Eh!?  
Must be a Mac thing! LOL
Are u trying 2 Say that, u want me 2 write with a Dictionairy, Thesaurus and my Eng Grammar Teacher Sat Next 2 me!? 
Hmmm... 

NeYo


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 27, 2001)

Dont worry Neyo... its just a case of the wheeebolla..it comes and goes.  Careful cause it is contageous


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## Squeek (Dec 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by thedbp _
> *Oh man, what a piece of garbarge.
> 
> First of all, the interface is absolutely nauseating.  I felt like I was in preschool playing with those giant Legos.*


Two words: _Classic Mode._  Right-Click on your desktop, then choose Properties/Appearance (think that's the tab).  There will be a popup menu with "Windows XP" selected.  Select "Windows Classic."  Believe me it's quite a bit less "Legoey."





> *Its completely obvious the Microsoft wants you to have an "MS"-only XPereince.*


No $hit, Sherlock.  What good would Microshaft be if they couldn't cram their products straight up their users' asses?  BTW first thing I do when installing XP is remove MSN advertising feces that're smeared all over the OS.





> *The entire thing felt hacked together, like a Frankenstein OS.*


Just for the record, XP is built on the excellent Windows 2000 kernel.  So it's stable, albeit uncomfortable (zat what you meant by "hacked together?")





> *And they ripped off the Mac once again, putting all the Control Panels into a submenu of the start menu  something the Mac has had since System 7, for crying out loud.  I can't believe it took them that long to catch on that their Control Panel access sucked the proverbial ass.*


The Control Panel is the same as it's been since Windoze 95.  And since then, the Control Panels have always been selectable from the Start Menu.





> *As ever, the taskbar is a cluttered mess, and the on-screen text is wince-inducing.  All in all, it really is an ugly, counter-intuitive mess.*


A cluttered mess?  It's the best Taskbar yet!  You may say to yourself, "That's not sayin' much," but in comparison to all other versions of Windoze, the XP Taskbar is much less cluttered.  For one, you can have it group together minimized windows that are running under the same application.  Another aesthetically pleasing change is the option to make the system tray hide itself.  On top of all that, you can Auto-Hide the Taskbar, same as always.





> *And to make matters worse, a sales rep at Best Buy was telling some poor schmoe that if he bought this laptop with 256MB of RAM, he'd have to upgrade the RAM immediately because 256 isn't enough to do anything with.  EXCUSE ME  I have 256 MB of RAM on a 5 YEAR OLD POWERMAC that i use to record 16-Track Digital Audio!!!!!  I wanted to slap that know-nothing bastard.*


Was the laptop a PC or a Mac?  From the way your paragraph was headed, it sounded like a PC, and believe me 512MB or more is quite nice on a laptop compared to 256MB.

(sidenote)Memory prices have dropped through the friggin' floor!  Why not max out that 5 YEAR OLD POWERMAC while prices are low?  I must recommend Crucial for their exceptional quality merchandise and their outstanding customer service and shipping habits.(/sidenote)





> *Maybe that's why retailers don't like stocking Macs - the customer base is too smart to fall for their marketing and sales ploys.*


How do you explain the new Apple stores making so much money???


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## ulrik (Dec 28, 2001)

Wait..you are right! I NEED WindowsXP, RIGHT NOW!
Who wants my Quicksilver and my Cube? I want a PC! I want it know! 

...well...after thinking 0.2 seconds about it - which, like Data told us, is a damn long time ...I remembered the 10.345 reasons I switched from PCs, which I used for twelve years - to Macs!

Sure was that post not completely right, but your sig reads "Aqua sucks", that's what I call open minded! 

Let us bitch about your OS, if it is qualified or not, it's our forum 

Oh, and if you expect that the Apple Stores start earning money in the very first year they were founded, than you should inform yourself a bit about bussiness...so much for the flaming...

thank you and good night, that was another eXPerience we had here


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## edX (Dec 28, 2001)

isn't anybody going to fly around a cow pasture? i wanna see my friends fly around cow pastures.  I assume XP cd's are laced with some pretty good drugs if  people start flying once they boot up. or at least the people next to you fly.
ever notice how bootup ryhmes with shoot up? I guess we all got our own form of junk. which brings me back to the topic of xp....


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## ddma (Dec 28, 2001)

X or XP sucks?
Aqua or Lunu sucks?
iMovie or Windows MovieMaker sucks?
iTunes + Quicktime or Windows MediaPlayer sucks?
DVD Player or (what is used in XP, sorry, I can't find one) sucks?
iDVD or (again... can Windows MovieMaker makes DVD?) sucks?
Image Capture or My Pictures sucks?

You guys should have some ideas...

But, in fact, there are still some great functions in XP anyway. I have an iPod, Nickon 775 digital camera and planned to buy a DV, I think iBook and OS X is still my digital hub to go. That's my eXperence! 

So, what is your eXPerence?


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## simX (Dec 28, 2001)

Ooooh goodie!  We have a PC troll on our forums now, just like the MacCentral forums has Mendar to inform everybody how truly great PCs are and how Apple is doing everything wrong.

Squeek, please get a life.  Unlike all of the other Mac users on here, we don't use an OS that is crammed down our throats by an illegal monopoly.  And it actually looks good, especially when put side by side with Windows XP w/ the Luna interface *OR* with the Classic interface.

And ddma is right -- all of Microsofts "competing" products like Windows MovieMaker are all not that much of a competition.


Oh, and by the way -- if you want stability, it's called UNIX.  And what do you think Mac OS X is built on top of?


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## FrgMstr (Dec 28, 2001)

Heres an interesting review for you guys

http://www.dv.com/magazine/2002/0102/hones0102.html

have a read. 

digital video and Dual Procs they put the Dual 800 G4 up against dual P4's and Dual Athlons


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## Squeek (Dec 28, 2001)

Hold the phone a minute people.

First off, let me say that I got off to a bad start.  I was raised on a Macintosh, and I will forever have a respect for the platform above any other.  I love the idea of OS X, but the reason I came here to these forums was to try to learn some very basic things, like how to change the Aqua interface that I am so NOT IN LOVE WITH.  And somebody please tell me - where the hell is the calculator?

Another thing - I wasn't attempting to flame anyone with that first post.  I was just defending Windoze XP for its good qualities.  Like its Windows 2000 code base.





> _Originally posted by simX _
> *We have a PC troll on our forums now...
> Squeek, please get a life...
> And [OS X] actually looks good, especially when put side by side with Windows XP w/ the Luna interface OR with the Classic interface.
> ...


Thank you for pointing out the obvious, simX.  I know that Windows add-ons like MovieMaker and MediaPlayer suck.  I know that OS X is based on UNIX.  But I wasn't making a comparison to a Mac when I stated that XP is the most stable Windoze ever.  I was comparing it to other Windoze versions.  And whether or not OS X looks good is just a matter of opinion, and my opinion is "Aqua sucks.  Gimme my XP."





> _Originally posted by ulrik_
> *Sure was that post not completely right, but your sig reads "Aqua sucks", that's what I call open minded!
> 
> Let us bitch about your OS, if it is qualified or not, it's our forum*


"Aqua sucks," is a statement of my opinion.  I had a VERY open mind when I upgraded to OS X.  That was partly because I was VERY sick of that horrid OS 9.0 (9.1 helped my feelings a bit).

YOUR forum?  I am a user and a Mac lover just like anyone else in this forum.  I may be new, but does that mean it's not MY forum too?





> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell_
> *isn't anybody going to fly around a cow pasture? i wanna see my friends fly around cow pastures. I assume XP cd's are laced with some pretty good drugs if people start flying once they boot up. or at least the people next to you fly. ever notice how bootup ryhmes with shoot up? I guess we all got our own form of junk. which brings me back to the topic of xp....*


Wow, Ed.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of what you have to say on these forums!

Apologies to anyone who thought I was attempting to be hostile.  This is a great forum, and I'm definitely a new regular.  But please help me like OS X more.  I want to learn all that I can aboot it so I can learn to appreciate it more than I do right now.  And can someone please find my damn calculator?


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## edX (Dec 28, 2001)

welcome to the community squeek !! 

now that you've done your silly newbie thing that you would have known better if you had been here a while, you are free to assume your own identity (and argue with simx all you want). there will inevitably be disagreements in 80% of subjects raised which is as it should be. there will inevitably be a 50% disagreement with everything posted by sim (wink, wink - just teasing simX )

there is lots to learn here. the calculator should be in your applications folder. at least that's where mine is. i might have moved it there a while back. i don't know. i am middle aged member and don't always remember trivial things like that. of course a search using file/find will tell you where it is, if its not there. 

so open your mind, boot up your flying instant messengers elsewhere, and enjoy the site. just remember the letters M$ and XP are going to raise blood pressures around here. it's a law of newtonian and lombardian physics.  absolutely documentable and reproducible.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 28, 2001)

One Question Guys...
U all, well most Don't like Luna, Am i right in saying that?! ...
Well... Have you seen how much it can be modifed, edited and basically F**ked aroun with?! ... i mean, unlike this forum, a Windows Forum i visit is ALWAYS talking of ways to continue to Mod Luna, Explorer etc... (sure thats Probably cus they hate how it looks @ present, But Hey!?  )
...As Far as i have seen, OS X Doesn't seem as verstatile as XP, when it come to this, although if i am wrong u guys will jump, and ambush me in a second...  So Come... "BRING IT ON" LOL

...For Me, From the Outset, Almost Everyone Hated "The Green Eye" aka. The Windows Start Button... So that was changed... and from there... a whole lot of stuff has gone... 
which recently coincides with the majority of my icons being hacked and modded, to OS X ones... (Via Shell32.dll)

The Way i see it is, that Microsoft made Luna Pretty Customisable (chk) Because, they knew it looked pants... but they Also wanted to give its Users a "Challenge" in making it better! hehe! 

...And also, Logon Screen's have come a long way too! 
I'll Add my Logon Screen (just 4 Good Measure!)

NeYo


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## wadesworld (Dec 28, 2001)

> _Originally posted by FrgMstr _
> *Heres an interesting review for you guys
> 
> http://www.dv.com/magazine/2002/0102/hones0102.html
> ...



Oh, great review there.  They tested multiprocessor machines against a dual-processor Mac running OS 9, which can't use the second processor.

Given that, the Mac actually performed pretty well.

I'd suggest they repeat that review with OS X.

Wade


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## simX (Dec 28, 2001)

Um, yeah, whatever.  It still sounded like you were a PC troll. 

Oh, and Ed.... for the record, I think you've disagreed with more than 50% of what I've said. 

Anyways, in defense of OS X, OS X is HIGHLY customizable.  I'm sure it's probably more customizable than Windows XP is.  Using the utility MetamorphX and the provided themes, you can change the whole look of OS X -- there's even a Platinum theme.  There's a file that houses all the default icons, so you can have different default icons for CDs and folders and partitions.  And it's not only customizable in that respect -- you can now modify the Apple menu thanks to a haxie by Unsanity called FruitMenu... also provided by Unsanity is WindowShade X.  With TinkerTool you can make all Terminal windows transparent and have the Dock slide out from under the menu bar if you really wanted.  ASM can put the traditional OS 9 application switcher back in its rightful place.  I've seen some really neat desktops with the theme changed and the desktop picture changed and everything totally switched around.  I really doubt that XP can do things like this.  I really, really doubt it.

So if you hate Aqua so much, just go download MetaMorphX.  I'm sure you'll appreciate it.  And I'm sure you can start making your own themes as well!


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## ddma (Dec 29, 2001)

Oh yeah, AQUA is not only the outlook of OS X but also designed to bring you a whole new GUI eXperience!

Let's think about the Sheet - e.g. Save Box in Office v.X!

So, what is LUNA bring to XP? Only the outlook?


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 29, 2001)

While We Are the Subject of XP vs OS X... or however u guys'd put it...

Can Some Show me their IE Toolbar?! i am continu'in 2 Aquafy my Desktop... and Wanna compare my IE Bar?! ... it may Sound Silly, i dunno... But Can Someone Show me there's So i can Compare?! 
Thanks Guys!

Here's mine...

NeYo


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 29, 2001)

The New Coca Cola Labels, From Bottles...


Hehe 





NeYo


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

WadesWorld, grow a brain will ya, the guy said he tried OSX but none of the software actually works(Thats another point, wont go into it though), Duh. If the app uses two procs itll use em in OS9 i.e photoshop Duh. Either that or you lot are stupid for buying dual macs when OSX wasnt even nearly finished.

That is one damn good review m8, nuff said. The results speak for themselves.

this is not trolling its just pointing out a very good dual proc review, which i though you lot would be interested, it just seems you only like it when the G4 wins, which doesnt happen anymore.

It will be interesting when the G5 comes out, but then again itll have to compete with the Sledge/Claw Hammer from AMD.


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## ulrik (Dec 29, 2001)

Stills, OS 9 utilizes the seconds processor in a different way than OS X. Apps like Photoshop, Final Cut, Cinema 4D etc. used the seconds processor, but, for example, under OS 9, it is impossible to actually share the load onto the two processors. So, Photoshop could do calculation A on processor number 1 and calculation B on processor number 2, but, if, in any case, the following calculation C would need a result from calculation A, it would be impossible to execute it on processor 2, since it can't share the flat registries of the two processors, it has to take another processor cycle to exchange the result into the other registry OR wait till processor 1 is finished. So processor 2 would be stalled! This was pointed out in the Apple Developer Connection a while back when developers asked why multi processor apps are still that slow, and if you ever coded a codec, then you will know that nearly EVERY calculation depens on results from past calculations. There are codecs which are programmed NOT to do this, but the most commons, MPEG 1, MPEG 2, Sorenson, DivX, do this. To prevent the other processor from beeing stalled, you need true SMP support, which is implemented in OS X. This way, you could store the result easily in the registry of the other processor, without having to wait till another processor cycle of that processor is free.

To make it short, OS 9 multi processor apps are far away from the performance of OS X apps, so the test actually SHOULD be redone once the Apps are carbonized or cocoafied.

UPDATE: this post might look like I ever coded a codec. This is not the case  But I red much about it the structure of such codecs since I am a big DV fan...


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

thats a good point, youve made there, but at the end of the day we use these apps now, dont we? If you are saying we should wait for a recode the MAC isnt really the platform to use for proffesionals who use that software now, Am i right?

The flagship MAC is left far behind in its bread and butter apps, the dual proc PC alternatives are better today and by the time the macs moved on so will the Pc's.

This is the point im getting at here guys.


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

Also dont forget the processors used in that test were far and i mean far from the Best procs from AMD and INTEL, that was not the case for the Apple machine.

again im not trolling, you have got to say i am right on the button with this.


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## dlookus (Dec 29, 2001)

I think the real problem with the article is that they use AE 4.1. They are now up to 5.5 which is OSX and MP compatible.

Poor test.


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## ulrik (Dec 29, 2001)

frgmstr:

well, we could argue about that for hours! 

You find some benchmarks where the multiprocessor PCs are better, I find some where the Macs are better.

My friend just bought a Dual P4 and told me that now, he can encode to MPEG 2 in 2x realtime. When I told him that my Quicksilver does it in realtime, he didn't believe me. When I showed it to him, he started thinking about buying a Mac  

No, seriously, is there any good thing about comparing these systems?
I don't think so. It starts flame wars. "My dad is stronger than yours".
"But my Dad can encode MPEG 2 in realtime!" "so what, my Dad has more software", "my dad has a cristal clear casing and is only as tall as a CD and doesn't need a fan"....etc. etc.

Some of us bitch about your OS, some of you bitch about our OS. We bitch about your commercials, you bitch about our commercials. We both don't have nuclear warheads so we don't have to fear anything...

I don't care about speed. Seriously, if Macs would half as fast as PCs and twice as expensive, I would still buy them and no PCs. I like them.
You like PCs. I will never switch to PCs, you maybe never to Macs. Let's agree there, ok?


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

Wait a minute i thought MACs were half as fast and cost twice as much  , only kidding.

I was making the point relating to pro's who make a living out of this software, it would matter to em.

Anyway this is turning into a good little debate, oh and i would have a G4 aswell as my PC if i could afford it, Poor student you see.


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

what software you using for your Mpeg2 conversions cos my mate with a G4 400 and 768MB Ram only gets about 4fps he says.

Im sure he would be quite interested. i think he said he was using Cleaner or something like that.


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## ulrik (Dec 29, 2001)

I conside myself a pro, earning my money with it ...as most graphic designers do 

But well, lets settle it!



PS: I have to admit, until about two months ago, I worked for a company as a programmer...on PCs. But I decided to go the way of a freelancer, switching to cocoa and - what I am doing for living - to 4D


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## ulrik (Dec 29, 2001)

You have to use Apple coded software. Don't ask me why, cleaner gives me about 17 FPS, but Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro and iDVD give it to me in realtime


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

OK Cheers, ill tell him that


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## konrad (Dec 29, 2001)

renders a standard benchmark project about 20-25% faster than ae 5 under os9. under os9, only a few plugins support multiprocessor rendering. if you use ae5 in osx classic mode and watch the cpu monitor, you can see that mostly processor 1 is used. in ae 5.5, both processors can share the load.
i think this is why the dual g4 was that slow in the test.


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## ddma (Dec 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *While We Are the Subject of XP vs OS X... or however u guys'd put it...
> 
> Can Some Show me their IE Toolbar?! i am continu'in 2 Aquafy my Desktop... and Wanna compare my IE Bar?! ... it may Sound Silly, i dunno... But Can Someone Show me there's So i can Compare?!
> ...



Oh well... I saw a PC folk cannot live with his previous statements and try to say somethin' stoopid... 

I mean you have to study again WHAT IS AN OPERATING SYSTEM. Aqua is apart of the OS and is one of the most important part - GUI. If we are talking about the OS, why we can't talk about Cocoa, Carbon, Aqua, Darwin?

I think if you only want to compare the letters in "OS X" and "XP", it really sounds silly... 

Again... Aqua is not only the candy screen you had seen, but also the way you use to control your computer... If there is a Save Box in your MS Word XP, can you still compose other documents? So, again, what is the so-called new theme - Luna - has brought to you? Just some silly words of saying Aqua sucked by your fingers?

By the way, I know XP good. It won't hang... But so what? What is the different between XP and 2000? Why Bill Gates can call it a ground-breaking product? Why 95% of Mac users have given X Thumbs up but there are 48% Thumbs down for XP at CNET site?

WHATEVER, I just want you know what is the defination of GUI... 

**GUI is not only a theme...


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## FrgMstr (Dec 29, 2001)

By the way, I know XP good. It won't hang... But so what? What is the different between XP and 2000? Why Bill Gates can call it a ground-breaking product? Why 95% of Mac users have given X Thumbs up but there are 48% Thumbs down for XP at CNET site? 

Well that might be now but when OSX first came out people reffered to it as BETA and were quite disgusted with it. I can only imagine what you lot would say if M$ did that with one of their OSes.

Why slte Bill for calling XP revolutionary, i mean Steve only needs to take a dump and its revolutionary. I mean must of the time he takes a dump out his mouth anyway. come on Man


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## ddma (Dec 29, 2001)

Yea, so let's see!


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## thedbp (Dec 29, 2001)

When steve takes a dump, it usually IS revolutionary.  He could discard 50 times as many good ideas in one day as Bill gets in a whole year.  And usually when the light bulb goes off over Bill's head, the next sentence usually starts something like this:  "Hey!  Let's steal ____________!"


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## fryke (Dec 29, 2001)

Easy. We Mac users are evangelists of our own platform. Even Mac users who like OS X so-so give it a thumbs up in public. Because we're the little ones in the public. Those 48% thumbs down for XP could very well be all the Mac lovers united.



I think XP hasn't changed that much in the PC world. It's a 'normal' upgrade to Win 2K. What it DID was it brought the stability of NT (3.5, 4.0, 5.0, 5.1) to the consumer version of Windows.

OS X brought the stability of UN*X to the Mac. Yes, we made a bigger step, but let's also not forget that Mac OS 9 was on very shaky legs.


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## ddma (Dec 29, 2001)

Oh yea, I won't forget OS 9!!

But... the subjust is about "XP vs X"... What can I say?


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## thedbp (Dec 29, 2001)

I think OS 9 gets a bad rap  i mean, i've run it for literally weeks at a time with no crashing, and that's doing pretty intense photoshop, quark, indesign work to.  Plenty of app switching, ram-hogging, and processor-crunching going on.  I think the key is to trim extensions down to what you use and nothing else.  I've been an extension-managing junky since OS 7, and I've never had nearly the number of problems that other users have reported.  I'd go over to friend's houses, clean up their extension sets, and split, then ask them how their Mac was running and usually they'd respond with a variant of "surprisingly well!"

Also, I think the REAL culprit to OS 9 instability might very well be Internet Explorer.  We all know that for some reason, IE5 needs to install some sys extensions in order to run  OK, I'll get over that, even though NO OTHER BROWSER needs to do this.  BUT  when I remove those extensions completely and use a different browser, I have NO TROUBLE. And if my computer does start acting funky, I'll delete those MS extensions and the problems disappear - even if i continue to use IE5 and let it reinstall those same extensions.

Just another example of poor coding from MS.  I think Bill Gates might have foreced the MacBU into putting some bugs into those extensions on purpose to give Macs troulbe and a bad name.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Dec 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ddma _
> *
> 
> Oh well... I saw a PC folk cannot live with his previous statements and try to say somethin' stoopid...
> ...



Dude... Hold Here... all i wanted was 1, Yes ONE Measly Screen Shot!? ... It That So Hard u have 2 give me the 3rd Deegree on terms i know Little about ... For now!? 
... Whatever u want to call it... u knew Xactly what i meant...! 
i ain't coming here 2 Argue i was just HOPIN' A *Friendly* user would help me out! 
NeYo


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## ddma (Dec 29, 2001)

Sorry mate. I didn't mean to that... But you first posted the Cola poster...


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## edX (Dec 30, 2001)

so i guess i've been right to be drinking pepsi all these years


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## ddma (Dec 30, 2001)

But I love 7-up!


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## rfraley (Dec 30, 2001)

Supposedly if you say his name five times, he automatically comes to the forum where you said it and trolls there.

That is why I will only say Mendar's name four times.

As for Neyo, I like the job you've done with making XP look like Aqua, but I'm waiting until I can actually get my hands on an actual flat-screen LCD iMac to make the change.  Sure Windows XP is stable but it's not too secure.  When I give this Presario 5630 up in a couple of months I'll equip it with some good firewall software that blocks most of the .net crap out.


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## edX (Dec 30, 2001)

try sierra mist 

much better than 7up or sprite. subtly more tangy. 

my beverage of choice these days.


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## ddma (Dec 30, 2001)

oh, thx for telling... but i couldn't find any "sierra mist" in Hong Kong...


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## Squeek (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by rfraley _
> *Sure Windows XP is stable but it's not too secure.  When I give this Presario 5630 up in a couple of months I'll equip it with some good firewall software that blocks most of the .net crap out. *


According to my geeks at The Tech Zone, ZoneAlarm is an excellent firewall program.  I remember one of the users saying that he blocked all known Microsoft IPs, which helps to eliminate the .NET threat.

Oh and just my opinion, if you're using XP or 2000, it's best to have your disks formatted in NTFS.  That takes away a large chunk of online security threats.





> _Originally posted by simX _
> *So if you hate Aqua so much, just go download MetaMorphX.  I'm sure you'll appreciate it.  And I'm sure you can start making your own themes as well! *


THANK YOU!  thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!

Another few questions (thanks Ed for the calculator help) aboot OS X:
1.) Can I start the computer from a command line, and just skip the GUI?
2.) How do I obtain root-level UNIX access?  Is this controlled entirely by the GUI?  If so is there some kind of hack that will let me into the root?
3.) Is it possible to nix these ugly, oversized desktop icons?  Can I make them smaller or even ::gasp:: _replace_  them with the icons from OS 9?


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## thedbp (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Squeek _
> *THANK YOU!  thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!
> 
> Another few questions (thanks Ed for the calculator help) aboot OS X:
> ...



1.  Yes.  Just log in at the login screen as ">console" and it'll drop you down to the command line.  Alternately, I believe if you press Command-C while you're booting, that might do it to, but I'm not sure on that one.  Command-V at startup lets you boot in verbose mode, so you get all that great Unix-y stuff flashing across your screen instead of the nice blue.

2.  Root level access is turned on in the NetInfo Manager application in your Application/Utilities folder.  Basically, you open that app, go to the Domain menu, select Security, select Authenticate, type in your password, then go back to the Domain menu, select Security again, then select Enable root user.

3.  Yes, you can get those big icons off your desktop.  just make the Desktop active, go to the View menu, and choose Show View Options.  Alternately, you can just click on the desktop and type Command-J.  The little slider at the top will allow you to change the icon size to whatever you like between sizes of 16x16 pixels and 128x128 pixels.  You can even do the tiny icon with the name to the side of it if you put the slider all the way to the left.  And if you want to use OS 9 icons, there are TONS of OS 9-like icons available at http://www.xicons.com

Hope this helps  OS X really is flexible, and is getting more so every day.


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## simX (Dec 30, 2001)

thedbp is right on all three counts of your question, squeek.  Well, actually, there's one little point where he's wrong.   Hold down the Command and S keys to start up in the command line at startup, not Command-C.  But he is right that you can type ">console" in the login window for the login name and get to the command line that way.

Oh, btw thedbp:  OS X isn't getting more flexible every day -- everyone is just making hacks that make use of the already flexible OS X.   So OS X was, from the start, really, really, really flexible.  It's just that we haven't taken advantage of that until now.


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## Squeek (Dec 30, 2001)

Thanks thedbp and simX.  Now I'm wondering where this mysterious login window is.  I have two users on this computer - my dad and me.  Is there a keystroke to type to enter a username other than the ones listed?  I'm gonna take a wild guess at Command-Control-Esc.  I'll try that in a few minutes.

4.) I want my Trash right back where it belongs, which is at the bottom right-hand corner of my desktop.  Is this possible?


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## vic (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *One Question Guys...
> U all, well most Don't like Luna, Am i right in saying that?! ...
> Well... Have you seen how much it can be modifed, edited and basically F**ked aroun with?! ... i mean, unlike this forum, a Windows Forum i visit is ALWAYS talking of ways to continue to Mod Luna, Explorer etc... (sure thats Probably cus they hate how it looks @ present, But Hey!?  )
> ...




believe me or not, i like luna, and if i were to buy a pc i'd install either 2000 or xp on it for sure. luna may not include any technological advancements like Quartz but it faster than the X interface when it comes to certain apps cough*OmniWeb*cough ... yes i know omniweb does not run in xp, but at least the other browsers are faster in scrolling than omniweb, which BTW i LOVE, but what's a fact is a fact and can't be disputed 

i still like os x better, but sometimes all the pc apps and easy access to them (freenet/morpheus) tempt me.  (i know i know, let's not start on that tangent again it won't change me)


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## vic (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by FrgMstr _
> *Wait a minute i thought MACs were half as fast and cost twice as much  , only kidding.
> 
> I was making the point relating to pro's who make a living out of this software, it would matter to em.
> ...




hmmmm


AGAIN...

i Hate ambiguity! what "pros" do you mean?

a photoshop user will not need to use the apps that review was tested on. is he/she not a pro?

a sound editor will not need to use the apps that were used in that review, is he/she not a pro?

so in that certain category/field macs are not so good (i'm sure there are mac-obsessed in here that COULD prove that wrong but hey...) but what about other pros? Do they not need to make a living? are you sure PC are the answer in other professional fields? I'm not so sure.


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## vic (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by FrgMstr _
> *By the way, I know XP good. It won't hang... But so what? What is the different between XP and 2000? Why Bill Gates can call it a ground-breaking product? Why 95% of Mac users have given X Thumbs up but there are 48% Thumbs down for XP at CNET site?
> 
> Well that might be now but when OSX first came out people reffered to it as BETA and were quite disgusted with it. I can only imagine what you lot would say if M$ did that with one of their OSes.
> ...


...........................
 i mean Steve only needs to take a dump and its revolutionary.
............................

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH


ahah

auahhahah


...

you've made my day!!!! i love you! i don't agree with your next comment but this statement is just toooo hilarious! oh man the sense of humor in here... !!! ok ok... it's funny cuz it's true!!! oh, i wish i had a "Steve Dump" maybe he should auction it on e-bay i bet his shares would FLY above MS's!!!!


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## vic (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Squeek _
> *THANK YOU!  thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!
> 
> Another few questions (thanks Ed for the calculator help) aboot OS X:
> ...




f*** these questions were answered a THOUSAND times in this forum! You are such a newbee! man, do a serch in thsi forum for waht interests you then if you get no answer ask the question!


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## Squeek (Dec 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by vic _
> *f*** these questions were answered a THOUSAND times in this forum! You are such a newbee! man, do a serch in thsi forum for waht interests you then if you get no answer ask the question! *


Dude, calm down!  I'm a n00B!  Sorry, I didn't happen to look much at the front page before I saw the subject I wanted, and this is where I came and asked a question.  If you don't like people asking questions that have been answered many times before, then you don't belong on a F**KING forums site!

J/K dude I'll look around a bit next time. 

_But seriously how do I move the damn Trash???_


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## edX (Dec 30, 2001)

click here and you should find the way to put your trashcan back on your desktop or any where else you want it.

this referral for software is free. after this, solutions requiring me to hunt down a link will be $1.00 american. when you reach a total of 5, there will be an additional $5.00 charge on top of that. this pattern will repeat until you reach 25 at which point the total price will be a flat $100.00 which will include your next 5 for free. 

hey, i don't want you to start missing the M$ way of doing things 

ask away - if people don't want to answer you they won't. don't let anybody you're too new to ask a question of anykind. if vic knows where thse great threads are then he should be giving you good search words to use or even linking you to a thread rathar than bitching at you. besides look how much commentary you've generated. you should feel proud.


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## simX (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Squeek _
> *Thanks thedbp and simX.  Now I'm wondering where this mysterious login window is.  I have two users on this computer - my dad and me.  Is there a keystroke to type to enter a username other than the ones listed?  I'm gonna take a wild guess at Command-Control-Esc.  I'll try that in a few minutes.
> 
> 4.) I want my Trash right back where it belongs, which is at the bottom right-hand corner of my desktop.  Is this possible? *



Um, you login to your computer, right?  I assume so, because you have 2 users on your computer.  The one that appears when you start up your computer?  Don't tell me you haven't seen that one.... 

You might have auto-login on.  Go to System Preferences, go to the Login pane, Login Window tab, and then uncheck the "Automatically Log In" box.  Now press Command-Shift-Q, and press Return.  You will now go to the login window.  If you unchecked the box that I said, too, you'll be presented with this login window every time you start up -- be sure you know your login and password!

By the way, vic: would you mind not posting 4 posts of yours one after another... put them all in one post, and edit it if you want to add something.. it's kind of annoying.


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## Hypernate (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Squeek _
> *The Control Panel is the same as it's been since Windoze 95. And since then, the Control Panels have always been selectable from the Start Menu. *



Umm, no it hasn't. I'm actually on a Windows ME system which I upgraded from Win98.

The CP has only been able to be used as a menu in the start menu from WinME.

Before then it was in the Start menu but had to be opened as a folder.

Oh, and to be bitchy, in Win 3.1 and earlier there was no Start menu .


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## vic (Dec 31, 2001)

simX -i'm deeply affected that my 4 posts in a row have moved you into being so annoyed after all i should have better things to do than to get on people's nerves, especially yours.

hey guys, bitch all you want, but all i ask for is the right to bitch just like all you guys, so F*** off if what i tell you doesn't suite you immediate need, OK? 

(i'm not really angry i just like to project a certain bad ass attitude over the net)

no, but seriously, bitching is ok, but don't bitch that i bitch; if you know what i mean, with that in mind, i will try for you convenience to regulate my posting frequency and consistency to suit you grand needs (i wouldn't want to upset anybody now would i?)


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## Squeek (Dec 31, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Hypernate _
> *Umm, no it hasn't. I'm actually on a Windows ME system which I upgraded from Win98.
> 
> The CP has only been able to be used as a menu in the start menu from WinME.
> ...


Yes, you're right.  I took a look at 98 for the first time in a while yesterday and I was stunned when I realized how wrong I was.  But who the f**k wants to use that POS DOS-based pile of poop anyway?





> *Oh, and to be bitchy, in Win 3.1 and earlier there was no Start menu . *


Oh, and to be bitchy, try reading the whole post that you're responding to next time. 

_[edit]_
vic, this is how you edit.  I am just adding this to my post because I figured it would seem spamful if I had one post on top of another.  Speaking of spam, the post directly above this one has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic, which makes it spam.  Please, if you want to bitch aboot people bitching at you for bitching, just make a separate frickin' thread.
_[/edit]_


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## vic (Dec 31, 2001)

[edit]
vic, this is how you edit. I am just adding this to my post because I figured it would seem spamful if I had one post on top of another. Speaking of spam, the post directly above this one has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic, which makes it spam. Please, if you want to bitch aboot people bitching at you for bitching, just make a separate frickin' thread.
[/edit]

aparently YOU did not have to open up a new thread when you bitched about me! All you did is include your bitch with something useful and it's all fine... well HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! everybody! hope you enjoy 2002 better that 2001 cuz honestly 2001 wasn't all that anyway. any remember: "an apple a day keeps microsoft away!"


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## FrgMstr (Dec 31, 2001)

Yeap i must now take responsibility for the "Steve Dump Joke" It was me.  

See us PC users do have a sense of humour


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