# OS 9 is alive and kicking!!!



## Scott_Bernard (Oct 31, 2003)

I supposed it

http://www.macminute.com/2003/09/22/os9usage

_"Mac OS 9 usage dwarfs OS X in creative fields
September 22, 2003 - 16:04 EDT** Following our report earlier today on Apple's market share numbers in the creative industry, Vincent Naselli, a director at research firmTrendWatch, provided MacMinute with a further break down of the numbers. According to the firm, 71 percent of professional graphic designers use Mac OS 9 as their principal Mac operating system, while 17 percent have OS X. For corporate designers, 60 percent use OS 9 and 13 percent use OS X. For professional ad agencies, 72 percent have OS 9 and 20 percent run OS X. The figures provided were the latest data available through June 2003.*Since then, Quark has released an OS X version of QuarkXPress, which should have increased the operating system's usage in these industries."_


In my opinion, I know that panther is a great upgrade, but is true that OS X was not developed taking designers in mind...


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## toast (Oct 31, 2003)

Main issue is speed, IMHO. And Quark,too.


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## Randman (Oct 31, 2003)

Don't forget cost. A large publishing company, such as newspaper, would have to shill out tons of cash to crossover, not to mention training time and troubleshooting.
  Heck, I know quite a few graphic designers still happily using Quark 4.1


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## toast (Oct 31, 2003)

I am this type of guy. Running Quark 4.11 on my Classic partition and Panther on the other one...


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## Scott_Bernard (Oct 31, 2003)

toast said:
			
		

> Main issue is speed, IMHO. And Quark,too.



and don't forget the GUI, (Aqua distracts you...)


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## BitWit (Oct 31, 2003)

Yep, its all about 
1.->OS9 is speedy on legacy machines, especially if you tweak it right.
2.->dont want to buy new everything, just to find out you cant do something you used to be able to do.

I wish someone would make a "build-maker" that would allow you to make a copy of OS9 with all your extensions built in, that you could designate as your start-up. That would be handy for people who have tweaked their system as much as they care to. There would definitely be a need to preserve a clean copy somewhere to revert to in the traditional way. So you could have a "MyOS9", that has a faster startup.


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## mdnky (Oct 31, 2003)

The average lifespan of a mac in a professional design enviroment is 3-4 years, so it won't be long before those numbers change significantly.

Good business practice dictates that you don't go changing your plans on purchasing just cause a new OS arrives.


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## habilis (Nov 1, 2003)

I fit in this category perfectly.

I work for a graphic design company and we woudn't dare switch over to OSX yet because it is way way too slow compared to OS9. No matter what anybody says, the dirty little secret is OS9 is faster in every facet. I know because I use OS9 for about 9 hours every day and OSX for about 4 or 5.

This is one of the things I rated and ranted endlessly about in this forum when I originally bought this dual 1ghz g4 for my home freelance business. I was appauled at the sluggishness of OSX in a design environment and still am. Yes Panther sped things up a little, and exposé is freeking awesome and practically made for designers but it is still way too slow and unwieldy.

One of the most classic examples is easily seen in Illustrator and Photoshop. Open up a new document in Illustrator and just hold down the space bar to move your empty document around; in OSX it's sluggish and slow, in OS9 its 4 times the speed and framerate even on a way slower machine. Open up photoshop and create 10 windows of blank documents of your choice, you'll see that in OS9 everything opens and closes way faster, try to hide photoshop in OSX and you get beachballed and you slowly see each window disappear taking 2 seconds or so, in OS9 the windows are instantly gone in less that a tenth of a second.

This same formula applies to ALL applications and directory navigation. 

The bottom line: OSX is slower then OS9 in every way.

The bottom line question: Why is slower suddenly better??? WHY the hell should I pay MONEY to SLOW myself down!?!?

OS9 is so snappy and fast, I wish OSX had that. C'mon Apple what's the problem?? I played around with a G5 dual 2GHz at the Apple Store using Photoshop and I honestly could not tell that it was any faster. If you didn't tell me I would have though I was still on my dual 1GHz at home. So hardware is not the answer, it's the shitty software that's slowin us down.

On balance I like the direction Panther is going, the finder is a little snappier, exposé is good for designers, the slow roll-down message windows are gone, and we got labels back FINALLY.


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## BitWit (Nov 1, 2003)

Speaking of Aqua... I've heard of people using different OS 'skins'... is there a FASTER, less antialiased/alphamapped skin that would help things out?


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## Scott_Bernard (Nov 1, 2003)

habilis: I can't believe what I'm hearing!!! All the issues that you describe are the same that screw me in my Mac. But you have a G4 dual 1Ghz!!! so... like you say... hardware is not the answer...
What is Apple doing with this OS X????


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## mdnky (Nov 2, 2003)

BitWit, most of those skins make the computer more sluggish, even if they're leaner.


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## mpbnl8182 (Nov 12, 2003)

I've been using OS 9 exclusively for the grunt work for my thesis (3d serial reconstructions of microscope images).  And I won't be switching back for anything else in the near future.  I think my iBook has frozen and required a restart 0 times since i bought it in august, and i have to reboot on average of once a day on my B&W running 9.  Not that I don't like 9, it's speedy, lean, and I started using macs with 9.  I'll take a hit in speed for the reliability (though without QE, X runs pretty bad.)  I'm happy with the performance of Panther on my iBook.

MP


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## Ricky (Nov 12, 2003)

Hm.  I guess I'm in the minority.

I have to use Windows at work.


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## kiemposan (Nov 13, 2003)

i have to use windows NT at work, wankers


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## Jason (Nov 17, 2003)

im finding panther to be plenty fast enough for me, jag, was a bit too slow, and anything before that was horrid

i think as the years pass and companies are forced to upgrade hardware, then osx will be adapted. its a slow process.

13% is actually pretty decent, im sure a year ago it wasnt any where close to that.


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## toast (Nov 18, 2003)

Jason states right. OSX should rule over, but as of today, OS9 is still the path most designers are dependent to.


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## BitWit (Nov 18, 2003)

Jason, what are your hardware specs


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## Arden (Nov 19, 2003)

> Since then, Quark has released an OS X version of QuarkXPress, which should have increased the operating system's usage in these industries.


Yeah, especially considering how QuarkXPress for OS X _sucks_.

mpbnl8182: Your post confused me!


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## mpbnl8182 (Nov 19, 2003)

arden said:
			
		

> Yeah, especially considering how QuarkXPress for OS X _sucks_.
> 
> mpbnl8182: Your post confused me!



Sorry, I have a tendency to do that.

what I was saying is that although I like X better than 9, running 9 has its advantages speedwise on an older machine.  Though I've noticed Panther has helped this a lot.

MP


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## Arden (Nov 19, 2003)

My sentiments exactly.   I have OS X on my iMac, but I rarely use it because it's so slow.  (And there's a hole in my Classic environment.)


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## satanicpoptart (Nov 25, 2003)

when i ran 9 on my g4 a few years back i had a freeze every couple hours, sure 9 is snapy, but losing an hour of photoshop work makes it the most unapealing os ever.  sure it costs alot to upgrade... but its more reliable, give adobe cs a try on panther and youll see that paying a bit for dependable computing is well worth it.


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## stizz (Dec 2, 2003)

We use 9 for our pro audio studio setup. ProTools, damn near every plugin ever made, and Digital Performer 3. Tweaked just right and running very stable and speedily on the last of the great G4 beasts (dual 1.25) that still boots 9. 

Our prospects in X are grim, but we are gearing up for it. ProTools 6.2.2 runs on Panther as of this week, and We have been experimenting with Mach5 and Digital performer 4 on Jaguar.  If we can get a stable system running, we plan to switch to X next season.
the main problem I see is plugins. X will be great for tracking and composing, but when it comes to mixing, we will need the full DSP power that all our old 9 plugins provided. Replacing all of them at this point is not even remotely fiscally feasable. Damn the ilok!

I wish my powerbook booted 9.


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## jimbo61 (Dec 2, 2003)

os9 ist'n stable!!! it may be faster then osx, but what does that matter when your always crashing and having to reboot, So that just makes work hard to get done. But OSX(10.3.1) seems to almost have that os9 speed, but also being rock solid, and the dynamicaly alocated Ram between apps and what not, make it that much better.


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## Arden (Dec 4, 2003)

jimbo61 said:
			
		

> os9 ist'n stable!!! it may be faster then osx, but what does that matter when your always crashing and having to reboot, So that just makes work hard to get done. But OSX(10.3.1) seems to almost have that os9 speed, but also being rock solid, and the dynamicaly alocated Ram between apps and what not, make it that much better.


Well sure, compared to OS X, OS 9 is a house of cards, but compared to other classic Mac OS's it's the epitomy of stability.  I've had my fair share of crashes in OS 9, but I still use it quite often (as now) because, unlike Windows, it doesn't just spontaneously go wrong most of the time.

And OS X is by no means free of problems.  There are plenty of processes that will bring OS X to its knees and make it beg for its mommy, and it's still slow for many tasks.  Sure, you make up for it by multitasking; but it should still have a fast interface.

To say that OS 9 is dead is naïve, even from Steve Jobs's mouth.  There are still plenty of people with no means or intent to upgrade, and to disregard them, while easier as a business, doesn't make much business sense.  That, however, is the direction the industry has gone, and will always go; it's just as bad on the dark side of the fence, after all.


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## mindbend (Dec 4, 2003)

I can totally understand the appeal of OS 9. It is definitely faster in feel and general operability. I complained about OS X's GUI for a year straight, only to be bombarded on this forum for this or that reason. OS X has its frustrations, to be sure, however...

There is at least one area where OS 9 can not even touch OS X and that is fearless multitasking. Sure, OS 9 pretends to multitask and occasionally you can get away with it, but OS 9 cannot hold a candle to OS X for something like this, which I do consistantly and wouldn't even dream of doing in OS 9:

1. Capture DV footage, full tape, hour long, no skipped frames
2. Download a 20 MB file from the internet, decompress it
3. Work in Photoshop
4. Burn a DVD in Toast
5. Print several high quality, large file prints from InDesign
6. Render After Effects composites

All at the same time, no problem (DP 1 GHZ G4 1 GB RAM). That second processor surely helps, but so does OS X. Try that in OS 9. Go ahead. Try it. 

What's scary is that on the DP G5, you can monitor the CPU usage running all that stuff and you will typically still have headroom where on the G4, you'd  be maxed out quickly on the CPU. That means you can run tons of stuff on the G5 and not even detect a delay or hiccup amongst the apps (assuming enough RAM, etc.). That is impressive.

I switched to OS X back in the "Beta" days, because I knew it was the future and I knew someday its advantages would be worth it. I think we're just now on the cusp of that day with the G5s and Panther. I mean, Exposé alone is just about worth the switch. And can you say "Seven DV streams in FCP"?

It's funny, it's almost like we have a 3-way OS war now!

p.s. What is this "Quark" thing everyone speaks of? (joke: XPress is dead to me.)


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