# Objective-C for Programming 102?



## DV (Mar 8, 2001)

Hey guys.  I'm a novice when it comes to programming (know HTML, some java, & a spattering of RealBasic), and I was wondering what my first "real" language should be-- C++ or Objective-C?  I thought Objective-C since I'm more interested in programming strictly for OS X, and I've heard it's a little easier to learn than C++, although someday I hope to know both to some degree (might be going back to college soon)-- it's just a matter of which one I should start out on.  

Also, is there any other way to get the Project Builder other than downloading it from Apple's website?  The thing's 90 MB huge, and my so-called 56K modem is only operating at 28.8, making it a 11-12 hour download.  Will it be included in the retail version of OS X?  Or somewhere else?  I think if I were a paying member of ADC then I could get it sent from Apple, but I'm not.  Any suggestions would be great.  Thanks. 

Dallas Vaughan


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## monty (Mar 8, 2001)

firstly learn C. both C++ and objC are based on it. Also C is a good language in itself. Now once you know C, objC takes about a couple of days to get the hang of. Of course learning the cocoa API is going to take longer. C++ will probably take you a lot longer, but it is still worth learning. Basically learn C, that way you can fairly easily pick up three languages.

peter


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## endian (Mar 8, 2001)

I don't think it's really neccesary to learn C *then* start on Obj-C... just start with Objective C and you'll learn C as you go along.

As far as the dev tools' availability, your guess is as good as anyone's. I've heard that they'll ship in the box with OSX on a sepearate CD, taht they'll be available on CD from Apple for S+H, that they'll be downloadable. I hope they'll be in the box, to encourage that much more people to develop for OSX, but that ain't up to me.

[Edited by endian on 03-08-2001 at 12:23 PM]


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## monty (Mar 9, 2001)

yeah, thinking about it, what endian said is probably easier. I just said how I did it. (I learnt C before I knew objC existed.)

peter


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 9, 2001)

IMHO you should learn C++ first get the bases down then upgrade to objective C so you can have the best of both worlds.  Programming only for X isnt such a good idea.  Its always good to spread out and cover a wider base .


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## endian (Mar 9, 2001)

IMO ObjC is *FAR* more basic than C++!! ObjC is mostlyjust plain ol' C with message-passing added (eg. [heyYou doThis:withThis])

Given the original poster's background & desire to write for OSX, I think learning C++ would be a waste of time.

(Sarcasm: In 5 years' time everything will be written in C# anyway..)


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## endian (Mar 9, 2001)

oh, about getting the dev tools on CD - you can subscribe to just the CD mailing for $199, which should get you them (write dts and ask first) as well as any updates to OSX for the length of your subsciption. Not sure if a CD-only subscription includes the System CDs though.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 9, 2001)

I took a look at the apple developper site.  I can only seen online, selecte and premier memberships.  The premier is $500 and you get the CD amilings and a few other things.  I dont wish to be cheap, $500 a year is not much, buit for a student like myself I could really do well to save a few extra bucks.

DO you have a link just for the CD mailings ?  that is something that seems interesting  (and sustancially cheap  )

I think that OSs are included in the package.


Admiral


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## endian (Mar 9, 2001)

have a look at http://developer.apple.com/membership/index.html

There's a special student level membership for $99/yr (but it doesn't come with a seed key)

The CD-only subscription is $199/yr - http://developer.apple.com/products/mailing.html


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## DV (Mar 9, 2001)

Thanks for all of your suggestions, guys.  Right now it's just a hobby, so that's why I want to focus on one thing at a time-- focusing on programming for OS X really motivates me more than anything else (all the tasty buttons).  

I've been reading all of the docs and tutorials at the ADC site, although it sucks to not be able to try anything out until I get my hands on the dev tools.  A friend of mine works in a college computing lab, so I might just go there and download the PB tools.  I also e-mailed the ADC to see if the tools will be available on the March 24th release of OS X, and I'll post back when I get a response (not counting on it).   

Thanks again, fellas.  

Dallas


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## endian (Mar 11, 2001)

here's a link I found for an online c course

http://cplus.about.com/library/weekly/aa010801a.htm

I haven't looked at it much, but hey, it's free


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## DV (Mar 12, 2001)

Thanks, endian.  I've always liked about.com but I didn't think to check there for programming.  They have a butt load of resources for just about any subject.  I will definitely give that a shot.  

I did get a response from Apple regarding the dev. tools coming on the OS X CD(s).  They thought I was in the ADC mailing program and said that it should be arriving shortly, and when I responded by saying I meant the retail version (not the builds), they said I'd have to ask the Apple Store, so I sent THEM an e-mail.  No response, yet.

Dallas


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## endian (Mar 12, 2001)

heh heh 'arriving shortly' is right 

If the tools aren't gonna be in the box, it'd be nice if Apple could do a one-time only cd mailing to ADC Online members. Perhaps writing & asking for it could make it happen.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by endian _
> *here's a link I found for an online c course
> 
> http://cplus.about.com/library/weekly/aa010801a.htm
> ...



LOL.. I will take a look at it... will probably be more clear than my boring professor 


Admiral


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## DV (Mar 18, 2001)

A little update regarding the dev. tools on OS X:

I just received an e-mail from ADC saying that OS X and the dev. tools will be mailed in April to those in the mailing program (not me), and that the retail version will have OS X and 9.1.  This seems to say that the retail version doesn't have the dev. tools included, and that bums me out  .  

I'm holding out hope, though, on the slight chance that they will include it just to fill some space on a possible third CD in OS X, but my guess is that it won't be.  Oh well.  Guess I'll have to download the enourmous disk image from their site (hit, "download" and go to bed, and hope my connection lasts).

Also, I purchased "Practical C++" by O'Reilly books.  Actually, C++ seems closer to Obj. C than regular C (or Vitamin C), and it's good to know, anyhow.
Dallas


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## tie (Mar 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by DV _
> *A little update regarding the dev. tools on OS X:
> 
> I just received an e-mail from ADC saying that OS X and the dev. tools will be mailed in April to those in the mailing program (not me), and that the retail version will have OS X and 9.1.  This seems to say that the retail version doesn't have the dev. tools included, and that bums me out  .
> ...



Keep that hope.  The ADC folks don't know whether dev tools will be included in OS X Final.


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## scruffy (Mar 19, 2001)

DV - I can't remember right now, how is the developer tools download made available?  If it's ftp, you could use "wget -c" to resume the download halfway through, should you get cut off in the middle of the night...


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## DV (Mar 20, 2001)

> _Originally posted by scruffy _
> *DV - I can't remember right now, how is the developer tools download made available?  If it's ftp, you could use "wget -c" to resume the download halfway through, should you get cut off in the middle of the night... *



It's http.  The download will not work if you are not logged on to ADC (tried via Anarchie), and it prevents you from resuming (it must pass some key or something when you first hit the link to download).  Anyway, I'll wait until Saturday to attempt to download it--  just in case I'm pleasantly surprised.

DV


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## endian (Mar 21, 2001)

The dev tools will be in the box. From Apples pr site:

In addition, the Mac OS X box will include a full copy of Mac OS 9.1, for running Classic applications, and the Mac OS X Developer Tools CD


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## DV (Mar 21, 2001)

Yipppeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
      

Maybe I can run by Staples tomorrow and grab a copy (hopefully they haven't caught on yet).

DV


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