# Tiger



## fjdouse (Sep 8, 2005)

Catharsis is good for the soul, when we bottle up gripes they grow and then all manner of problems can arise, so I'm going to vent my rage.. 
..this IS a rant, feel free to ignore it or disagree or join in.

Am I the only one who is disappointed by Tiger?

It seems like so much was promised but never delivered, or at least, not delivered to the kind of quality I expect from Apple.

Widgets seem to be the only thing worthwhile, I'd really like to run some kind of system monitor on my mini, you know, CPU, memory et al. but everything I've tried seems to slow the system down more than anything else! Don't even get me started on how poorly widgets were implemented in 10.4! I would have written them off if it wasn't for the fact that a system update to 10.4.2 made them more usable.

Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious? Am I being paranoid?

Mail. To me, Apple have taken my plate of caviar and replaced it with a shyte sandwich (to quote someone I encountered online), the new Mail app is crap. Looks ok but feels really awkward, no visual indicator of activity, unless one uses the Activity viewer which is crap in itself. There is a heap of empty space on the toolbar, or whatever you want to call that empty space with the odd-looking buttons. Yes there is mail enhancer and some other crack to make it look like before, BUT WHY should we have to do all that?

Crashes, I'm getting far more crashes under Tiger than Panther, I've not got quantifiable figures to quote but I'm spending more time dealing with problems than before, apps which just crash, performance problems requiring me to get agressive with things like Onyx or TCC or worse still that frakkin spinning ball, my nemesis, which has spun for upto 15mins a go before I literally rip the power cord out the back of the Mac while screaming holy hell.

Oh Apple, thanks for the latest round of updates, I don't know what you did but my peppy little mini ran like a slow old dog after I'd updated. Even tinkering with TCC hasn't got things back as they were. I'll write the new sluggishness off as a 'feature' shall I?

Where the is the look and feel going? I can't figure it out, plasticy aqua and brushed metal is fine, but now the smooth plastic-like appearance of Mail adds a third look-n-feel which is getting really inconsistent. Now, last night, you know what I did? I updated to iTunes 5, lovely I must admit, I can finally get rid of those stupidly useless podcasts but we now have a fourth look-n-feel? So, Apple, what are you guys doing? My system is looking more and more like a poorly co-ordinated Linux setup!

I don't know how others feel, but I am really disappointed on the whole, maybe I gave in to Apple's corporate jibber, which I'm not usually prone to, but I expected something better than Panther and with the exception of widgets (coz I've made some cool Dalek widgets ;-) ) I think Apple have dropped the ball and the product -as it sits on my hard drive right now-, feels disjointed and just isn't as nice as I'd hoped. If I could, I'd get my money back and go back to Panther. Sure, I could do this and that, install this hack or that to fix various problems - BUT I shouldn't have to, this is why I moved from Linux to OSX, so I could leave that way of working behind.

Anyone else vexed? I dunno about here, but I've spoken to a few people in the real world who are equally as unimpressed by Tiger as I am.


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## fryke (Sep 8, 2005)

Phew! Lemme answer some of the points... 



			
				fjdouse said:
			
		

> Am I the only one who is disappointed by Tiger?


 Guess not. Lots of threads about it to be found all over the forum...



			
				fjdouse said:
			
		

> Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious?  Am I being paranoid?


 Well: The concern was there at the beginning, but the problem was solved over time - and very well solved, I think. Is your system updated to the newest version where you can put the widgets in a testbed before installing?



			
				fjdouse said:
			
		

> Crashes, I'm getting far more crashes under Tiger than Panther, I've not got quantifiable figures to quote but I'm spending more time dealing with problems than before, apps which just crash, performance problems requiring me to get agressive with things like Onyx or TCC or worse still that frakkin spinning ball, my nemesis, which has spun for upto 15mins a go before I literally rip the power cord out the back of the Mac while screaming holy hell.


 Well, you _have_ to keep in mind that you're comparing the very _end_ of refinement of Panther with early updates of Tiger...

I agree totally with you on Mail's and iTunes' look with you. I REALLY hope that Apple gets its act together at least with Leopard - although they'd better get it back together MUCH earlier and finally find a way to get consistency back!


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## nixgeek (Sep 8, 2005)

The inconsistency thing is something I would expect in the open source desktop environments like GNOME and KDE on open source operating systems.  But this is Apple, and they NEED to really do something about the inconsistencies.  Most of us are used to the GUI consistency from the pre-OS X days.  Personally I find this indecision to use one theme unacceptable.  It takes away from the Macintosh Experience, IMO, and presents a poor example of what an well-designed OS should look like.


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## fjdouse (Sep 8, 2005)

Ah, words of wisdom from a fellow UNIXer, you're right, I'd allow it to slip on KDE or GNOME, but this is a paid-for product, not flippin cheap either and a critical part of the Mac user experience is the consistancy and predictablilty of use of the GUI.  Take the red close button on the top-left of apps, sometimes it closes the window, sometimes it closes the app itself - WHY, DAMMIT?

Fryke ol' chap, you're right about comparing the final Panther with an early Tiger, but if Apple cannot release the first Tiger to be at least AS GOOD as the final Panther, then, frankly, they are not doing their job right and ARE letting us down.  I expect Tiger 10.4 to be everything 10.3.9 was PLUS more.  Perhaps they should focus a bit more on the software, which is obviously slipping, rather than bloody music players.  I am not sure about this 'testbed' Fryke, can you describe it for me? ;-)

I must say, I DO like the new iTunes interface, perhaps (I HOPE) it's a taste of things to come, but I shouldn't have to BUY something like Shapeshifter to make everything look consistant right now.  For Gods sake Apple! Just put a damn theme manager in, if can't make up your mind on how things should look - devolve the power to users.


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## nixgeek (Sep 8, 2005)

I just installed it on an iMac 600 MHz running Jaguar 10.2.8 and it looks great.  It also feels snappy to me.

As for teh theme manager, I hear ya.  Man I've been wishing for that for years now even with Mac OS 9.  Yes, the Appearance Manager was there, but it didn't "theme" like it was supposed to.  What I find funny is that Apple prevented a lot of people (back in the Kaleidoscope days) to fiddle with the Mac OS theme and now they can't decide on which one to use.  And this is worse because WE CAN'T FIX IT PROPERLY!

As you mentioned fjdouse, Steve Jobs needs to get back on track with the Mac.  I'm starting to think that many of these changes that have taken place are a way to move Apple away from the Mac and into something else.  Remember that originally Jobs was against the Mac, while Woz and others were for it.  Jobs tried to push for the Lisa and a continuation of the Apple line (non-Mac that is) but when he noticed that it was a failed venture, he jumped ship and supported that Macintosh all the way.  Sometimes I lose respect for him only because of things like this.  It's a shame that Woz was the one that always got the shaft even though he had the greatest ideas around.


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## Mikuro (Sep 8, 2005)

fjdouse said:
			
		

> Downloading, apps or widgets in Safari seems almost exploitable, I've not explored this, but I don't like the fact that Safari knows I'm downloading an application, worse still, it wants to install widgets automatically, what if the widget was malicious? Am I being paranoid?


No, you're not being paranoid. The good news is that you can just turn it off. In Safari's preferences, uncheck the "open 'safe' files after downloading" (don't those quotes around the word _safe_ just give you _so much_ confidence?  ). This has actually been a big gaping hole since before Tiger. The good news is every time an exploit is discovered, Apple is reasonably quick to fix it. The bad news is exploits _keep being found again and again_. The widget vulnerability was just the latest. There were at least a couple that affected Panther, too.

The whole "open 'safe' files after downloading" option should go. It's a downright Microsoftian feature. It's just a disaster waiting to happen. I've said that since day 1, and I've been proven right time after time. Thankfully the malware writers don't seem to care to exploit these things.


I agree with you completely about the appearance issue. Read my rants in the iTunes 5 thread for my detailed opinions on that matter.


Overall, I'm very disappointed in Tiger. True, you can say it's unfair to compare the "young" Tiger to the "mature" Panther, but....Panther was pretty good from the start. There were issues, yes, but I could still recommend it wholeheartedly. I still can't recommend Tiger to Panther users. Spotlight was implemented half-assedly, and that was the BIG new feature.

Stability has been fine for me, but performance has been downright painful. I've kind of just gotten used to the fact that everything's so slow and that the beach ball (we really need a better name for that thing, cuz it's like no beach ball _I've_ ever seen!) is a regular part of my life now.

If I weren't a developer, I would have downgraded after a few days with Tiger. But as a developer, I really like to be on the edge. So I make do.

Honestly, every move Apple's made lately has made me think more and more of ditching the Mac altogether. I just wish there were something better I could turn to......


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## fryke (Sep 8, 2005)

That "testbed" (I probably used some weird term in my mind that didn't really exist?) is the widget installer. If you double-click a widget in the Finder or Safari wants to install it to the Dashboard directly, you can now - in 10.4.2 and 10.4.3 - run the widget inside the widget installer, without letting the widget have access to the Terminal stuff etc.


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## fjdouse (Sep 23, 2005)

Yes it does that.

To add, I'm now a breath away from reinstalling my Mac back to Panther, I really think Tiger is pure sh*t.  It runs like a dog on my mini, I'm furious with how poorly my Mac now performs, after installing a few apps and loading in some extra Garageband loops, the system is virtually unusable, it takes forever to startup and all the repairing and fixing utils in the world isn't helping.

I WANT MY MONEY BACK


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## Lt Major Burns (Sep 24, 2005)

i agree with you. i disappointed with myself for not being content with panther. the hype got me.  i don't like tigers features, or their implementation - spotlight is half a job, and not nearly system wide.  smart folders are just too slow and clucky to be useful, they need to be far more fundamental.  the way it searches is poor, offering no context to which file it is you want (say i have 5 versions of a song with the same title?), and there seems to be no consistency in even search areas! (the spotlight icon, top right;  the "show all" window; the Finder apple+f and the open dialogue box, all differ)

dashboard is slow, and as it has been pointed out, too slow (it takes less time to find the real calculator and open it then to go into dashboard and add the calculator) to really benefit anything.  it was always designed to be a distraction.  and where is Quartz 2d extreme?

mail, i don't use, as i have http mail; ichat, i don't use because the world still uses msn. the slideshow is really difficult when more than 10 images are loaded...

but... with all of that...  i have gotten so used to spotlight, i am totally sure i couldn't go back. i've tried.  i look up at the old apple menu logo, and dispair at going backwards. damn apple.  this is a poor version.


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## Reality (Sep 24, 2005)

I been reading what everyone has been saying here and its made me curious. Do you guys think that perhaps it would have been best if Tiger never released? That way Apple could have kept on working on it all the way to the time Vista was about to come out. It probably be faster, more features, a set theme through out all apps, perhaps a theme changer (I'd love that), ect ect. 

I'm just wondering all this because sure enough Vista is on its way. We wont know for sure just how improved it'll be till its here but, would be kinda nice to think Apple has something in the works that'll be a nice step forward for us around that time. I just get to thinking if Apple had kept Tiger in development, how much bigger it could have been, and well more satisfying.


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## Lt Major Burns (Sep 25, 2005)

tbh, i think even vista looks more unified than macos at the moment, everything seems bitty since tiger. expecially with dashboard and spotlight. two extra features that seem like add-ons, not a flowing pool of tools and functions.  like a car with a cd player on the dashboard compared to one with a cd changer built in.

i do have an idea though - a theme selector - it would apply to ALL apps, system wide: you choose whether you want aqua, bushed steel, unified etc.  and all would change accordingly.


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## mbveau (Sep 25, 2005)

Now, I didn't upgrade from Panther when Tiger first came out. I was thinking of upgrading, but my productivity is perfectly satisfactory with Panther. It sounds like you guys wouldn't suggest upgrading at this point... What do you think? I know it'll get better with time, but I'm happy.


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## Veljo (Sep 25, 2005)

I think this thread raises some very valid points, points I hope Apple will take the time to consider and take on board for Leopard.

Overall Tiger is a much better operating system to me than Panther. It feels faster and cleaner. Thats _not_ to say that I have a lot of things bugging me.

fjdouse raises some extremely valid points that I totally agree with. The actual _look_ of Tiger is driving me insane. The _only_ look I like is the unified title bar/toolbar look with large icons without text, simple as that. The fact that we have so many UI's over every application, from Safari/Finder's brushed metal, to the _ugly_ new Mail, to the _extremely_ ugly iTunes to the more decent unified title bar/toolbar look. This needs to change _now_. I like consistency. This isn't a beta to see what looks good where. It's a fact that brushed metal is hated, so get rid of it.

With windows, I don't like the way inactive windows look anymore. Back in the Puma days an inactive window would have its title bar partly transparent, making the active window to me much more visible. After looking at some screenshots of Vista, I've noticed that inactive windows are transparent and the contents _behind_ this window seem blurry/frosty. I really like this feature and I think Apple should employ something similar.

On the subject of Dashboard, I don't find it terribly useful. The only widgets I use are Weather, Calculator and occasionally Dictionary/Thesaurus. That being said, it's nice to have the calculator one button press away.

Themes has always come up in the past, but it doesn't really bother me. I just want some consistency between apps, the brushed metal gone, the Mail look gone, and unified toolbar look in all my apps.

PS. Fix the damn minimized window badging too! The app icons on minimized windows always look like they're a 16x16 image resized to a 48x48 or something.


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## brownelkspeaks (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow, I was unaware the system was so buggy.    But then, I up-graded to Tiger two weeks ago from system 7.5 which I had been using for the last 11 years.  Nor was I aware of any of the Tiger hype.

I guess it depends upon your perspective, really.  Sure I've endured a crash since I've had it but holy smokes, compared to what I've _been_ using I feel like I was just promoted from ship's galley to the bridge of the Enterprise.  

I'm sure I'll be spoiled eventually but for now I'm enjoying the ride.


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## Veljo (Sep 27, 2005)

Oh believe me, the gap between System 7.5 and Tiger is about as big as Earth to Pluto. If you want a bigger shock, go back to 7.5 after you've used Tiger for a few months


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## nixgeek (Sep 27, 2005)

brownelkspeaks said:
			
		

> Wow, I was unaware the system was so buggy.    But then, I up-graded to Tiger two weeks ago from system 7.5 which I had been using for the last 11 years.  Nor was I aware of any of the Tiger hype.
> 
> I guess it depends upon your perspective, really.  Sure I've endured a crash since I've had it but holy smokes, compared to what I've _been_ using I feel like I was just promoted from ship's galley to the bridge of the Enterprise.
> 
> I'm sure I'll be spoiled eventually but for now I'm enjoying the ride.



Wow!  Talk about holding out! ::ha::

Well, although I still have my qualms about the inconsistency of the interface, I have to say that my iMac G5 running 10.4.2 is running quite well and has been rock solid since I bought it.  Of course, 10.4 was already installed on this Mac so it probably doesn't count.  Maybe once I upgrade to 10.5, eh??  Then I'll be back whining about how it didn't upgrade properly.  But then again, I always like to install from scratch on my desktops.


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## fjdouse (Oct 5, 2005)

Veljo,
Enjoyed reading your comments, I am probably in the minority when I say I really like brushed metal, in fact, everyone I've spoken to in the 'real' world likes it too.  More brushed metal for me! Get rid of the cheap, tacky plastic!  It does seem like Apple are just using commercial products to beta-test ideas, this is disgusting.  You wanna use MY Mac to beta test, fine - but don't bloody well charge ME for the inconvenience!  THEN tell me I'm getting something better than I had before!

To me, I really feel disappointed by Apple and overall, I'm disappointed a bit by the switch back to Mac. There, I've said it.  I never thought I would.  The only thing which makes it worthwhile is iLife, it makes many tasks easy and pleasant, as do many Mac applications.  I liked Panther, it ran well on my mini and was a joy to use, Tiger is patchy at best. One day it can boot up like lightning, the desktop can appear and it's ready to go, other times it will boot and the desktop appears but another 30 secs elapse before anything is usable because something is still chugging away.. what? where? why?  Finder doesn't feel as I think it should, it feels slow, I cannot quantify that and I cannot give an example which is consistantly repeatable.

Consistancy is the word here. There seems to be a lack of it.

I may be wrong but it feels like Apple are far more interested in tempting spoilt brats of the 'iWhatever generation' with more and more and MORE F***ING music players than computers.  Yup, another player doing EXACTLY the same job as the previous model, another player to be added to the growing signature lines of the click-kiddies, another player to cast into the drawer with the others within 3 months.  Apple, what are you?  Because I REALLY do not know. Get your priorities in order.  Perhaps the company should split into two or something, one to play it's little music empire games and one to get on with the business of making decent computers.  At the moment it feels like a half-arsed effort with the Mac, "Yeah, we'll just palm them off with this crap until we can sell them PCs, erm, I mean Intel Macs, they're so stupid they won't know the difference.  Anyway, let's concentrate on something more fun, another music player!"

Apple, you are falling out of favour with me. 


Rant over.


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## sirstaunch (Oct 5, 2005)

nixgeek said:
			
		

> As you mentioned fjdouse, Steve Jobs needs to get back on track with the Mac.  I'm starting to think that many of these changes that have taken place are a way to move Apple away from the Mac and into something else.  Remember that originally Jobs was against the Mac, while Woz and others were for it.  Jobs tried to push for the Lisa and a continuation of the Apple line (non-Mac that is) but when he noticed that it was a failed venture, he jumped ship and supported that Macintosh all the way.  Sometimes I lose respect for him only because of things like this.  It's a shame that Woz was the one that always got the shaft even though he had the greatest ideas around.




So what is the difference in Lisa from Mac? has anyone here seen it?


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## nixgeek (Oct 5, 2005)

Actually, I made an error in my mentioning of Jobs and the Lisa.  If I remember correctly, Jobs was still attached to the Apple II/III line.  The Lisa was actually part of Woz's work as well.  Sorry for this misinformation.

Here's some better information regarding the Apple line, the Lisa/Macintosh line, and Steve Jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Computer#Apple_III_and_Lisa


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## fryke (Oct 5, 2005)

Lisa screenshots here: http://www.jmusheneaux.com/9001.htm
Early Mac (System 1.1/Finder 1.1) screenshots here: http://www.jmusheneaux.com/512k.htm#APPLE

Note that the very first Macs were released with System 0.9 or something, but it shouldn't look too different IIRC.


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## fjdouse (Oct 5, 2005)

I did start this thread for general gripes about Tiger, rather than Apple history...


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## sirstaunch (Oct 5, 2005)

Wow, Lisa looks/looked AMAZING 

My friend has the first Mac, makes me want to go visit him and have a play on it. I remember vaguely roadrunner. And he's little capture device where we had to sit very still to have our picture taken then we looked like photocopies on a sceeen LOL

Couldn't say if it was 0.9 fryke, I wasn't system knowledgeable until System 7's and above.

Edit Here: Yep sorry fjdouse, say no more.

Tiger rocks


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## fjdouse (Oct 6, 2005)

I've found (for those actually interested in the original point of the thread) that using OnyX to disable the dashboard DOES give some relief to the gloppy performance I've been referring to. Of course, then one is running a crippled system, and as per my experience so far, tomorrow it could run like a bag-o-sh*t when I next boot up.

Having already forked out once for a memory upgrade, should I now fork out MORE cash for a 512 to 1GB upgrade?  The prices for the memory are so stupidly high, I can't resolve the.. morality ..of spending such amounts on something so..  (can't find the right word).. minor. (?)


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## Lt Major Burns (Oct 6, 2005)

have you turned beam syncing off in the Quartzdebugger?  my performance improved tenfold after that.


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## spb (Oct 6, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Well, you _have_ to keep in mind that you're comparing the very _end_ of refinement of Panther with early updates of Tiger...



Why does anyone upgrade?  As far as I can tell the only application that I've wanted that I couldn't have in Panthers was the latest kismac release.

On my other computer I'm still running Debian's Woody release -- although I was feeling adventurous three years ago and upgraded to the 2.4 kernel.  :7)

Once you have a system that is stable, secure, and performs consistently day after day after day why change?


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## bbloke (Oct 6, 2005)

A bit belatedly, I've noticed and started reading this thread. I'm sorry to hear of your bad experiences with Tiger, fjdouse. 

My background is that my family was amongst the first to use a Mac (128 K in 1984, etc.) and I've stuck with them. I use IRIX (and sometimes Solaris) and Windows XP (because I'm forced to...) at work, and I prefer to use Macs at home. There were times when I wondered whether a switch to Windows for my home computer would make things easier overall, although I didn't like the idea, but, after using PCs a fair amount at work, I became more and more convinced that OS X was a much better operating system and, over the years, I've become happier with my choice.

I have been quite happy with Tiger, by contrast. When I first installed it, I felt like nothing much had changed. After a little bit of usage, I started to feel like the OS was a bit "slicker," for want of a better way of putting it. Things felt a bit quicker and a bit better implemented, and I was left feeling a lot of tinkering had gone on under the hood, so perhaps some of the biggest changes were "understated" in my eyes. I have had one kernel panic so far (and even one is too many in my books, but maybe I'm being greedy  ), but then I've had more in Panther. Admittedly, I've been using Panther for longer, and, also, I'd add that I've had very, very few kernel panics over the years, since starting with 10.1. 

Maybe one reason I like Tiger is that I never got very excited about it or looked forward to it that much, as I was not overly excited by the keynote or descriptions on the Apple site (?). A bit like a pessimist being pleasantly surprised! I do like and use Dashboard, and I've never had problems with it. It has always been quick and I've downloaded a number of useful widgets, some of which I've used daily. I was never overly excited about Spotlight, especially as I rarely ever used the "Find" feature, but I've been fairly impressed and have used it more than I expected. It might take a second for the results to come up, but it feels very quick to me and seems to work as hoped. I haven't encountered problems with it, but have not used it that much.

By comparison, I felt a little disappointed with Panther, but still glad I got it. I rarely use(d) Exposé in the end, although I thought it looked nice. I feel like I'm the only Mac user in the world who virtually never uses it, as I am in the habit of hiding the current application when switching to something else; this keeps things in order for me, but I guess it means I also do little dragging-and-dropping, too. The thing I used most in Panther was probably "Labels." Jaguar, on the other hand, really did feel like a bigger upgrade. With regards to Safari, I think it always automatically decompressed attachments, and that was always one of the first things I turned off! It's a default which I'd like to see Apple change, for security reasons, but I don't think it was a Tiger-related issue. As far as Mail goes, I've actually been a bit happier with it, but always felt the need to run the activity viewer anyway, and so that is nothing new for me.

The rather disjointed appearance of parts of the OS is becoming an issue for me, and this is one area where I feel Apple do need to watch it a bit. I was really not a fan when Apple started using the Brushed Metal look in Panther, although I liked it waaaaaay back when QuickTime introduced it (QT 4?) as it was something a bit different. Having Brushed Metal windows in the OS just felt a bit too chunky and unwieldy. We now have Aqua, Brushed Metal, the new appearance of Mail etc. in Tiger, and the new iTunes appearance. I actually think the new iTunes interface looks quite a bit better, but it's a matter of opinion, I guess. I would prefer it if Apple made the GUI a little bit more consistent, whether it was the case that all windows had the same appearance, whether OS and application windows looked different, or whatever they decided upon. A theme manager might be a nice option, too.

I'm not meaning to deny your own experiences, only add my own two cents' worth and say my experiences have been very different indeed... Oh, errr, this post ended up a bit longer than I expected, sorry about that!


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## Viro (Oct 6, 2005)

What is beam syncing and what are the ill effects of turning it off?


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## fjdouse (Oct 6, 2005)

Lt Major Burns said:
			
		

> have you turned beam syncing off in the Quartzdebugger?  my performance improved tenfold after that.


Nice idea, but that will only work (AFAIK) by forcing the app to quit, otherwise it will reset back to default. Also, it's not permanent, requiring it to be done each boot.  Shunting graphics isn't really the problem though, it's more to do with the overall performance.


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## fjdouse (Oct 6, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> What is beam syncing and what are the ill effects of turning it off?


Beam syncing (afaik) prevents 'tearing', for example when dragging windows etc.  The ill effects of turning it off is that 'tearing' can occur again, but the tradeoff is higher fps. I think I'm correct in saying that disabling beam syncing uses an undocumented API and therefore could disappear in future.


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## Viro (Oct 7, 2005)

In other words, beam syncing is what we normally call the vsync?


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## fryke (Oct 7, 2005)

fjdouse: About 512 MB/1024MB... For a while, my PB only recognised one of my two 512 MB sticks, and I've found my PB to be SOOOOO slow that I couldn't live with it. I sold both and got one 1024 MB stick and ever since, I'm back to 'normal'. Sure, the system - under REALLY heavy load and low disk space - still bogs down sometimes, but only if I have to expect it, not out of nowhere. In my experience, 512 MB is the absolute minimum tolerable for Tiger - and only if you do _nothing_ else than iTunes/Safari/Mail.app and TextEdit. If you open anything else (say, the Dashboard...), 512 MB is not enough. I still have the feeling that Tiger has _some_ memory leaks, though.


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## Veljo (Oct 8, 2005)

My Mac is running 768MB RAM and my system runs fantastic, even if it is a little on the slow side. I use a lot of heavy apps like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro, and the Mac works very well. Obviously apart from my sheer frustration at the look of Tiger and its inconsistency, my only other real complaint is I randomly get a lot of rainbow beachballs, especially in Photoshop occasionally. Like I don't even have to be doing anything and I'll get one for 3 seconds or something. Weird, but I've lived with it.

I also can't wait for 10.4.3, hopefully I can turn on my Mac for once without having recovered files in the Trash!


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## fryke (Oct 14, 2005)

Btw.: Does anyone know what Photoshop really _does_ when in its preferences you set the memory useage thingie? It seems odd that with a system like OS X I can set ONE application to take like 50% of my memory. It's the only application that has that 'feature' I think, and it kinda worries me. If I set it too high, does that affect my system performance? If too low, my Photoshop performance? What's a good value? Can't Adobe just decide that for its users?!


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## Veljo (Oct 16, 2005)

I think Photoshop relies on scratch disks more than anything, so I don't think it will use as much RAM as you specify, unless you have some kind of huge file open. Just a guess


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## destructospin (Nov 3, 2005)

Photoshop does rely heavily on scratch disks, that is if you have a fairly limited amount of ram
and extremely large files
i wouldn't recommend setting the ram usage of PS to more than 60%
keep in mind, you have an OS to run, and all the background stuff with it


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## Mobius Rex (Dec 2, 2005)

I'd say Tiger is still in beta, and likely will be for a good while.  Rather than working out most, if not all, of the bugs before putting it on the market, Apple realizes that it means a lot more money in their pockets if they do the following: launch a big hype campaign well before the product is released and is really ready, then wait for the herd of sheeple, who really must be first on their block to have the absolutely latest Apple product, to madly rush to the store and buy it.  Then wait for the new purchasers to do the in-depth testing that they should have done beforehand. 
I'm still running OS 10.3.9 because it's solid, stable and smooth.  I don't need or even want gimmicks.  I don't even use Expose.
Will I eventually get Tiger?  Perhaps, but not for at least a year,
after most of Tiger's bugs are fixed AND I can be persuaded that Tiger offers a demonstrably superior user experience than Panther.


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## fryke (Dec 2, 2005)

That was maybe true for 10.4-10.4.2, but with 10.4.3, most of the gripes _I_'ve had are gone. Spotlight, I fear, won't *ever* become as useful to me as simple filename-based search was in Panther, but that's not something Apple seems to consider a bug. Rather, they want to urge me to forget my file names and remember the content. 

Either way: I don't think Apple released Tiger prematurely. There are some conceptual issues I have with Tiger, but bug-wise, Tiger has been better for me than Panther (comparing the early versions of each, not 10.3.9 vs. 10.4.0, which wouldn't make much sense...).


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## Viro (Dec 3, 2005)

Tiger is most definitely not a Beta. I've been using it since the day it was released, and I have pretty much no gripes with it. All my apps work nicely, and games get a slightly better boost thanks to the newer OpenGL drivers (thinking of WoW especially). Spotlight is nice, and works for most things as well.


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## nixgeek (Dec 3, 2005)

Well, as with any .0 release, it's always going to have issues, hence why 10.3.9 was very solid for Mobius Rex.  Of course, that upgrade didn't go smothly for anyone either.

As for usage in 10.4.3, I'm actually quite happy with it.  It works like a champ and has yet to crap out on me.  Only once did I get a kernel panic but that was of my own doing. 

My only issues with it are the interface inconsistencies.  If they could just fix that up, I would be happy.  Considering that KDE does a good job of trying to unify different widgets like GTK and others (sometimes through the help of the gtk-qt engine), and it is by far _nowhere near_ the ease of use of OS X, why is it so hard for Apple to do the same if not better?


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## kainjow (Dec 3, 2005)

I agree with everyone above. 10.4.3 is excellent, and has fixed all the problems I was having. I can now recommend people to upgrade to it


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## fjdouse (Feb 16, 2006)

Oh, I'd forgotten about this thread, I do vent quite a bit, do I not?  That's what I love about this site, we can have a rant and then others weigh in, we chat, we reason with each other, we argue sometimes and usually a resolution is found, or a way to live with the original 'niggle' or compromise is found.  I like that. ::love:: 

At present I'm on 10.4.4, I've no problems with Tiger now, I did use OnyX to disable the widgets, I still do that now and I've not tried them for months.  But the end result is it feels just as peppy as my old Panther.  Obviously the consistancy thing is still there, I think this is something we have to live with - come on Apple, 'lively up yourself!' as the man said.

I may re-enable the widgets to see what it looks/feels like now... then I can come back and have another moan.. ::ha::


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## Lt Major Burns (Feb 16, 2006)

as of 10.4.4, tiger matured and is now quite stable and smooth again.


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## fjdouse (Feb 16, 2006)

Agreed my good man, agreed. ;-)


EDIT.
Just updated to 10.4.5 and put the widgets back on, WOW.  It's definately more usable than before, I'm gonna keep the widgets on.


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