# Apple - two words to consider: "Home Automation"



## karavite (Jul 24, 2003)

Though centralized and automated audio/video equipment is pretty much limited to the upper crust budgets, this is a field that is expanding. 

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Apple's digital hub strategy has not expanded to provide affordable and really cool options for home automation. Why can't iTunes serve up music via wireless to little audio stations and speakers throughout the house? Like in my shower? Why can't iPhoto let me view my photos on my TV? Why can't Sherlock be available to me in any room (on some cheap device with a pen interface or something) so I can see what movies are playing at my local theater and/or to use as yellow pages? Why can't I network a set of iSights or other camera's and have be able to serve up these images across the house and/or use it is a video intercom system? Why should I buy some expensive device as a internet radio receiver that lets me select any station from any room in my house when I have a computer that can access the same sites? I could go on and on.

This stiff IS coming to all of our homes. Many people do this sort of thing with available hardware and software, but it isn't always easy to accomplish regardless of expense. Only Apple could make it "plug and play." Apple has almost ALL of the pieces, but has not put them together yet. Somebody will very soon, and if it isn't Apple it will be a shame.


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## Randman (Jul 25, 2003)

> Why can't iTunes serve up music via wireless to little audio stations and speakers throughout the house?


 You can get an FM transmitter and broadcast to radios (even in the shower) via iTunes or iPod.



> Why can't iPhoto let me view my photos on my TV?


 Because Apple sells computers and monitors. And you could always create a slideshow, burn it onto a disc, then playback on your television set (even in the shower).



> Why can't Sherlock be available to me in any room (on some cheap device with a pen interface or something) so I can see what movies are playing at my local theater and/or to use as yellow pages?


 Well, you can use Sherlock on your computer and find the information, then sync it to your mobile phone and or iPod and/or pda. And many telephone networks offer wap services (for phones/pdas) such as that (and you can even book movie tickets that way).



> Why can't I network a set of iSights or other camera's and have be able to serve up these images across the house and/or use it is a video intercom system?


 If you have the computers, you can. And check out evocam. And there's greater interactivity between other devices. I can set up iSight in my home, stream it to a webcam, then check it via my computer at work, or even my GPRS mobile phone when I'm really away from it all.



> Why should I buy some expensive device as a internet radio receiver that lets me select any station from any room in my house when I have a computer that can access the same sites?


 That's your choice, not Apple's. And again, you can use a FM transmitter to broadcast streaming Internet radio stations to radios all over your house for a fraction of the price.

So these things can be done already. Maybe not in the plug-and-play Apple has made so many people dependant on, but it's there.

  It's the same argument from people who are always saying: Apple need to build an iPhone, Apple needs to build an iPDA. No, Apple doesn't. If the company makes it easier and better to use other devices effortlessly, the same thing is accomplished without the heavy R&D costs as well as competing with existing companies. It's picking the battle selectively.
  I'm sure this Apple push toward digital networking will lead to greater ease in some of the things you've mentioned, but Apple still need to become a bigger player. Give 'em a greater foothold into the Windows platform and you may start to see more of this come. Just my $.02.


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## adambyte (Jul 25, 2003)

Right... most of the features mentioned are available to us, in some form or another... I believe that karavite just wants to see the same fit and finish that's put into every Mac put into home automation. If Apple actually made a concentrated effort to make an integrated system for your house, it would kick ass.

But I agree. Apple is very wise about which technologies to bet on, which to develop, and which to leave alone. But remember.... Apple is always just a few years ahead of their time... not decades. They can't afford to be. ;-)


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## karavite (Jul 25, 2003)

adambyte, you cued in to my point - Apple could put this together and it would be great. It IS happening and going to happen more and right now Apple is missing the beginning of it.

Randman - I think you misunderstood me. I said all this stuff is possible and available, but it is not plug and play. Only geeks like you or me would put together the peices to make things like this work and even then, it isn't perfect. No offense, but some of your points fall short and hardly offer something seamless/automated - I don't want to burn disks or synch anything manually. Let the hardware/software take care of that for me. It is time for the computer to evolve and do more for me all by itself.

I think Apple will never gain back share on Windows unless they provide something people want and Windows doesn't have. The business market - outside graphics, video and some web developement, is largely a goner for Apple. They will never get it back. Education is not doing so hot these days either. The one area they have strength is in the home market. You seem to think I am asking for too much, but it is already here. Why not let Apple do it and do it right.

The Escient Fireball is a $2000 box that does many things I am asking for: http://www.escient.com/fireballline.htm Here is the touch panel that goes with it: http://www.escient.com/etp1000.htm

The page says "More than a Hard Drive" - and they are right - it is a really just a specialized computer. It may be expensive, but cheaper versions and knock offs are coming soon. Cheaper similar products will be in Best Buy within two years tops. 

I tried one out the other day and my reaction was this: Almost everything it does my computer can do - just not as elegantly or automatic. Why is that? Why should I spend $2000+ on this thing when my $2500 computer is so close to being this same thing? Why can't my computer have the same features + the same convenience and flexibility? 80% of it is just software and interfaces to other devices (TV, stereos...). Why can't my Mac be the center media/information "brain" of my house (e.g. the "DIGITAL HUB"!!!) like the Escient Fireball? Unlike the Esceint, my Mac has two processors and a multitasking operating system, yet it hardly utilizes the full capabilities of either one. Why not?

You say Apple can't risk investments in new hardware, but I think they can't risk standing still. Home theater, home automation is growing rapidly. Faster towers and lighter laptops are hardly innovative or market shaking events, but when Apple does something new and innovatiive they do it right it and it pays off - iPod for example. Apple could lead this and back up the talk Jobs makes about a digital hub. I didn't say it, he did! If they can't do the hardware, they could find a partner and promote standards and interfaces and/or the software to drive this kind of thing. 

Off topic: Rather than post a new thread, did you see the shameless Apple music download ad rip-off by buymusic.com! I thought it was an Apple ad until the very end. God, what a world of shameless no-talent people we live in. Don't they teach people not to plagarize in school? Still, like all the other clones, they don't get the subtle details that Apple pays attention to.


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## dave17lax (Jul 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randman _
> *You can get an FM transmitter and broadcast to radios (even in the shower) via iTunes or iPod.
> *



laughing out loud.

I want a waterproof wireless rendezvous enabled minisystem that I can mount in the shower and change tunes as I lather up. The system would get fed the music from my mac, and again, I would be able to select the music right then. Who wants to make a "shower playlist", hit play, get naked, and by the time the water's hot you missed the first song. No. Not to mention the fuzzy hiss as your FM transmitter goes in and out, or fails to work at all. 
Add AM/FM and price it under $200.


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## Randman (Jul 25, 2003)

Dave, I hope you have enough hot water to last as you do all of that playlist on the go stuff.


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## karavite (Jul 26, 2003)

So, no comments on why a Mac can't do what the Escient Fireball is doing?


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## Arden (Jul 26, 2003)

When I think of "home automation," I think of being able to speak to the house and give it commands, then the house sends signals to all the devices and appliances to fulfill your commands.  For example:  you get out of bed in the morning and say, "Make breakfast."  The kitchen activates, and the refrigerator gives 2 eggs to the stove to cook, the coffee pot starts brewing, the toaster starts toasting, etc.  This is, naturally, a long way off, but I think this is where home automation will go someday, rather than just being a big interconnected intercom.


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## karavite (Jul 26, 2003)

Right arden - that is part of home automation too, and you can rig this sort of thing up with various devices (X10 and a computer with speech recognition), but it far from where it needs to be. I actually rigged something like this up with my old Quadra 660 AV in 1994 - though by no means was it slick or really usable (I was controlling MIDI devices and a light or two via my Mac and a PC -both via speech). Still, that is the point I am trying to make here - there are so many little pieces out there, and have been for some time, but nobody has put them together yet in the right way. Standards is one issue, wireless another, but it IS coming soon. I just want to see Apple incorporate this into their digital hub strategy - it seems the logical next step. Media (music, images and movies) seem to be the core of Apple's digital hub ideas, so why not extend it to merge with home audio and theater equipment. We have been hearing about the inevitable merging of our TV and computer, so why isn't it happening with Apple now?

In the mean time, I ran a audio cable under my floor from my G4 to my Rotel 1055 surround sound receiver so it can play various internet radio stations in my living room and bedroom (via the Rotels zone 2 that is controllable via remote). I may run a video cable from the Mac into the Rotel (using a Dazzle AV bridge) so I could watch some home movies directly on my TV, but running from my Mac. Still, there is NO remote for my G4 (which is in my office). I can't tell it to play MP3s, let alone another radio station or start up FCP or iMovie to watch some video, without walking over to it. I don't want to walk over to it. Is it really too much to ask. The main thing that is missing is some way to control the Mac without being in front of it. A little wireless tablet device (that can run on its own and also communicate with other Macs) would do the trick. A little software to load up internet radio stations and manage and access the other media stored on my Mac would then make my Mac the equivilent of the Escient Fireball.


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## karavite (Jul 26, 2003)

P.S. Some people seem to think I am being a ridorkulous dreamer here, but look what MS is doing - email, the web and photos on a TV. http://www.msntv.com/Default.aspx

Come back to this post in a year or so and tell me MS and others won't expand this to all kinds of media and communication with all kinds of devices - movies, radio, music, home theater/audio and PCs. Apple could do it so much better.


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## karavite (Aug 9, 2003)

I realize posting back to oneself can be the sign of a sick mind (or lack of social life), but I have been researching the whole home automation area and there is a lot happening. According to some mfgs I spoke with, EVERYONE is hot for this market to explode, even Apple. 

If you are rich and have about $50,000 to spare, you can do almost anything in home automation http://www.crestron.com/, but for the rest of us, there is hope, but it aint all there yet.

X10 devices have been around for a long time and have the advantages of being cheap and using your houses electrical wiring system as a network - anything plugged in to a wall outlet can be controlled by an x10 device, but the types of control are limited to (basically) on/off, though this can be enhanced with motion sensors, remotes, special modules for lamps, appliances, momentary switches... and PC control (Macs too). Still, it isn't all the way there to having any and every device available for any kind of control - for example, tell my computer to load up a play list on iTunes and send the audio to a specific room in my house.

Again, X10 is pretty cool and previous attempts at new standards and protocols have not taken off, but Universal Plug and Play http://www.upnp.org/ is getting a lot of attention from big players like Microsoft and Sony - still, no products. I assume Apple is interested too, but they are not often mentioned as a big player here. Can someone please tell me, who does plug and play better than Apple? Didn't they basically invent the concept? Please spare me from a world where Microsoft leads on plug and play! Wait a minute, unless they have someone to copy or buy out, they really can't do anything "new" - I guess we are safe for now! 

Any way, for anyone interested here are some links on various subjects:

X10 Devices - don't be fooled by the bad web design or seemingly simple products - there is a lot of hidden power and control available with these things - even without a computer. Controls based on time of day, motion sensing, macros and grouping of devices into "scenes" - many devices can control other devices - for example, when a motion sensor can trigger a macro or scene - not just one light.
http://www.x10.com/automation/homeautomation.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_modules_switches.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_wireless_remotes.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_motion_sensors.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/product_plug_controllers.htm

Other X10 based product companies:
http://www.smartlinc.com/
http://www.leviton.com/

Here are other companies with X10 based products and speech control (sadly all PC):
http://www.appliedfuture.com - voice control too 
http://www.automatedliving.com/default.htm
Though you don't need a computer to control X10 devices, it can be a lot of fun. Fortunately, there is a developer who remembers Apple and OS X! It is cheap - only $39.00!!! (nice guy too)
http://www.alwaysthinking.com/products/products.html
I have yet to test this out, but it seems to work with Apple's speech functions (in and out). Also, with this, you will need a serial to usb adapter - they recommend Keyspan: http://www.keyspan.com/products/homepage-Serial.spml

Here are some other companies that specialize in AV equipment and home AV networks (not X10):
http://www.nilesaudio.com/
http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/
http://www.xantech.com/

This is the area I think Apple can run with - I'm not saying a Mac can serve up cable TV and DVDs throughout the house, but the Mac already has all kinds of digital media - why not use it as a digital media server to AV equipment throughout the house? MP3s/iTunes, internate radio, pics (iPhoto) and home movies (iMovie), addresses (Address Book), email (Mail), information (Sherlock)... throughout the house?

Any way, for those who think home automation is not coming soon to a computer near you (Mac or otherwise), you are really talking about something where you have no knowledge. Same goes if you think there is no place for Apple because they are interested, but are probably hampered by economic issues. Still, the home automation trend will more than likely consist of smart devices and wireless (though you cannot serve up high quality home audio and video via wireless), but there is certainly a part to play for the computer, computer network and Apple. Again, Apple could lead the way with well thought out, easy to use and innovative ideas.

Any way, with X10 devices and a couple hundred bucks you can have your Mac control almost every light and appliance in your house. I am going to get back into X10 and set some stuff up here at home. I'm also using my Mac to send audio to my AV receiver (itunes and internet radio) and then use my AV receivers Zone out to serve up the Apple media (audio only) to other areas of my house. With AppleScript (and even QuicKeys!) I can set up some automation on the computer end for using my Mac as a digital hub - for example:

1. At 7:30 am (when I wake up), check my mail and use text-to-speech to read off a list of messages in my inbox via the audio out of the mac to my AV receiver to it's second zone in the kitchen (Mail has lousy AppleScript support for this kind of thing).

2. Load up my favorite internet radio station and play it on all audio zones in my house (Could just use a timed QuicKeys sequence to launch Windows Media player and then select a favorite...).

3. Run some timed macros to activate some of the X10 devices (make coffee, turn on the AC in the living room...)

These are just a few examples, but what is clear to me in attempting this is the lack of software to make this all easy to do for people who are less obsessed than I am. Some day I hope Apple changes that.


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## karavite (Aug 9, 2003)

P.S. Most of the stuff I listed above came from reading "Smart Homes for Dummies" - a little out of date, but a good resource.

Also, for PC users, you can control (though limited) your PC remotely for audio and other things.
http://www.streamzap.com/html/
Anyone know of anything like this for a Mac?

These are neat too:
http://www.mynevo.com/
http://www.pronto.philips.com/
http://www.pronto.philips.com/index.cfm?id=420


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## chevy (Aug 9, 2003)

You can add http://www.hometoys.com and http://www.bangolufsen.com

But (yes, there is a but) all this technology does not solve a few problems: very bad user interface... and legal transmission (broadcasting) of music /image/video over the air...

What is needed is a system with some kind of identification, like does Bluetooth, but easier to use. Don't want your neighbor to listen to your music... and for sure you don't want him to control your house.

X10 is a nice standard for techies. Bluetooth user's interface is still rough. WiFi is not defined at sufficiently high level. Yes, there is place for Apple here !


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## mr. k (Aug 9, 2003)

I want the robot vacum cleaner... mmmm automatic home vacum cleaning!  You just put it on your floor and turn it on and it putzes away!  Sucks out al the dirt.

And on the frontier of home control, all you really need to control those x10 devices from your mac would be a piece of software someone writes, correct?  So why not write it?  I agree it would be awesome.


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## Arden (Aug 9, 2003)

Well, karavite, if you can put something together that does what you want at a price you can afford, more power to you.  Maybe if you emailed Apple with some suggestions, they might jump on it more quickly.

There's something to be said when people are so lazy they can't even get up to control their own appliances.  It's one thing if you're busy with something, painting a room or working on an important project or something like that, but if you want home automation just because you don't want to get up, that's another thing altogether.  Maybe you should look at the reasons you want home automation and see if pure laziness is one of them.

No offense.


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## karavite (Aug 11, 2003)

arden, other than my own geeky nature, there may not appear to be too many reasons for wanting this, but there are many good reasons. It really isn't about laziness.

First, in my own defense, I am not a lazy person. I work at least 55 hours a week in my "day job" and have worked extra every Saturday and more for at least the past 7 years in other areas I am interested in (minus the two years I went to grad school and worked about 100 hours a week and read 800 pages of assignments per week). I try to exercise at least 3 times a week too. Sorry, but the laziness argument doesn't fly here.

My weekend work that I referred to has been in the area of assitive technology - technology for people who are disabled. Most of this work has been with people who are visually impaired and the various tools they can use to use a computer so they can work or go to school. When you work with people who need assisitve technology you soon realize it isn't always the person who is disabled, it is our technology. Often times a bad designs make people disabled more then their physical disability. Good designs can make people who are disabled more productive and enjoy their life. One thing that technology has promised but has failed to deliver on is integration and communication between devices. Though a lot of home automation is more about gee whiz and/or even laziness, making it affordable will have extra benefits for a wide range of people who are disabled, older and/or who want to save a little time and effort for other things that are more interesting or rewarding. Apple led the world in assitive technology in the 80s, and the Mac was THE computer for people who are disabled, but lost out due to Windows dominating computing. Macs would still be the best ever computer for accessibility if developers (who are forced to write for Windows) could put their efforts toward Mac solutions. Any way, the same things that benefit people who are disabled often benefit people who are not disabled. The "curb cut" is a classic example, but there are many more that most people don't even know about. OCR, word prediction in cell phones and other examples originated in assitive technology. Also, assistive technology uses almost every kind of new technology to help people who are disabled. So, if I or enough other people are too lazy to turn on a light, it will result in cheaper and easier to use solutions for someone who is physically disabled and cannot turn on a normal light switch.

Outside of disability issues (which could account for at least 1000 good uses of home automation) I can think of many reasons how an automated home can help people and not be related to laziness.

1. Energy saving - lights, AC and heat all regulated by time of day and activities by people who live in the house (you don't need a computer on all day to run this either).
2. Time saving - add up all the little things we do in our houses every day and give us an extra hour or two to read to our kids, go on a walk...
3. Increase the functional value of all our home electronics.

Regarding 3, here is where I do get a little lazy and selfish. As a result of my not being lazy in working, I have spent tons of money on technology, but I am not happy with the lack of integration between what I get for my hard earned money. In my living room is a A/V system I have spent about $6000 on, and let me tell you it sounds great (my AV receiver can be updated for new software - but only via a PC). The A/V receiver's second zone allows me to listen to it in another part of the house (for example, I can listen to the radio from the AV receiver while it plays cable TV in the living room). In my office is my G4 DP 1 GHz I spent about $2500 on (bought it when it came out), plus another few grand in monitors, and AV gear in there. There are a few things I would like to do with BOTH systems but cannot (easily). 

One of the things I would like to listen to (in the living room) is the internet radio stations I always listen to when I work in my office. I can run an audio cable from the Mac to the AV system, but I can't control the Mac from the living room. Despite having spent nearly $10,000 on computer and audio equipment, short of moving my G4 into the living room (something the wife will NEVER let me do), there is almost zero integration here. PC users have a range of cheap products they can use to serve up MP3s and/or internet radio from their computer to their stereo and even control their PC remotely, but since I have a Mac (a sign of good taste I think), I cannot. I'd like to watch some of my video I edit on my mac in my living room without having to run cables and/or burn a DVD every time. Again, PC users have this sort of thing available. I do not. 

So what do I do - work harder so I can buy radios, stereos and computers for every room in my house? Isn't $10k enough? How about 2k? It should be.

Any way, if this keeps up, guess what I will buy for my next computer? I hate to say it, but if Apple doesn't keep up on this, I'm reverse switching. I have spent tons my hard earned money on personal macs for years - 10 + a newton, iPod...  + software and peripherals  - all from Apple. Probably $30,000. I have convinced at least 200 computer purchases by friends and family to go to Macs. Am I the kind of customer they want to lose?

Just this past day I ordered about $300 worth of X10 stuff and cables that will let me do a lot (though far from all) of what I mentioned in the previous message. Still, it is far from elegant and what is missing is software, communication protocols and neat hardware features. Apple could to this! All the pieces are there, we just need someone to put them together.

Sure home automation may seem frivolous, but so are luxury cars, clothes, perfume, gold clubs and even our dumb home computers. Like other seemingly frivolous things, home automation can and will generate jobs. The market in home automation right now is about 2 billion a year. This is expected to jump to 10 billion in few years. Apple can get in on it or not, but it is coming either way. It is the closest thing to a sure bet in technology these days. Could Apple use a bit of that 10 billion dollars?

The whole purpose of this thread, and others I have written on is to simply talk about how Apple could be THE leader in a business that is growing rapidly and is right up their ally. Am I voice in the wilderness? I didn't say "digital hub," Steve Jobs did! So where is it today? iPod was the last big step and it paid off - everyone copied it, but as usual, they copied it poorly, but what has Apple done since to really add to the digital hub? Little video cameras and MP3s and all the great (for the most part) iApps are part of it, but they need to lay a home network infrastructure. Take the Mac out of the home office WITHOUT taking it out of the home office! That is where computing is going. Apple would and could do home automation so much better than ANYBODY, but they may miss the boat. An Apple home automation system, that worked as well and was as innovative as all Apple products usually do, would be a big selling point to sell more Apple computers in homes (THE only place they can sell computers!). 

Oh, Mr. K., I'm not a programmer, but someone did write the software - http://www.alwaysthinking.com/products/products.html and I bought it! I ALWAYS support the little Mac developers and this guy did a nice job, but is limited to some issues with hardware due to the PC-ness of the world. Why can't Apple help him and other like him? For example, speech control is an option, but PC users have far more powerful, cheap and reliable options here.


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## Arden (Aug 11, 2003)

I have seen the inside of Karavite's mind, and it is full of wires...

Wow, I never expected such a response!  I guess the semi-accusation about laziness came more from my own current lifestyle than anything you might be doing.  I'm not working right now, and since it's summer, I'm not in school either, so I really have very little to do.  I wouldn't mind being able to control everything from the computer, or whatever, but that stems into severe lethargy and I should get up and do more than push buttons when I want something done.

However, I can certainly see Apple foraging the way into making our homes like the quarters on the Enterprise.  They are definitely the perfect company to introduce cheap and easy home automation, especially for the harder jobs that people would rather not touch.  I hope you have success in reaching them, Karavite.


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## dave17lax (Aug 11, 2003)

Anyone remember ADB I/O?
I was going to automate the blinds in my old room with this and a handful of motors. Andy Ihnakto wrote a little article in MacUser years ago. Wish I could find that.

http://www.iwac.se/adbiotech/ADB_IO/


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## karavite (Aug 11, 2003)

Dave17lax - neat post! It raises another point I forgot to mention - Apple has AppleScript! Yet another peice of the home automation puzzle ripe for use!!! Another is one of my favorite programs (until they ruined it on OS X) - QuickKeys. Do you know the poor people at CE took years to write QK for Windows. I wonder why?

arden - you are right, my mind is a mess of wires right now. I am obsessed and underneath it all is the deep desire to be the Captian Picard of my home:

When I am thirsty: "Grape Juice, Fresh Squeezed, Cold." 
When the neighbors dog is pooping on our yard - "Raise sprinkler shield." 
When a visitor pulls up - "Driveway On Screen, magnification level 2" 
When I want to watch TV - "Open (Discovery) Channel" 
When it is hot out - "Divert all power to AC" 
When our own dog won't leave the kitchen when I am cooking - "Fire ice maker, full spread"...
And of course, when my mother in law comes over -  "RED ALERT" followed by an automatic rotating shelf that flips around to display all the awful picture frames and other nick nacks she gives us constantly...

I hope I didn't come off as some kind of arogant jerk about my work, school... and all that self indulgent B.S. - it is so hard to read a person's intent on thses things and I got a tad huffy on the lazy thing, but it didn't seem like you were being nasty at all. I just want to see Apple lead more revolutions and shake things up - and be successful. Nobody else can or has for some time!

Any way, enjoy your summer! If I can pass on advice I should have listened to and should listen to - it is this. Some time ago, before OS X, I bought Suse Linux for the Mac and was on the phone with tech support to figure out one little thing that kept my install from working. When we figured it out, I said something like, "Man this is so cool, I can't wait to do this and that..." Then the tech support guy, the biggest Linux geek you could ever imagine said something like, "Hey man, get OUTSIDE. Enjoy the sun, get away from the computer..." In my case, he was right! Why don't I listen to this more?...


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## karavite (Aug 13, 2003)

Replying to myself again!

I just had to post this - these guys make some really cool software and a Mac USB interface to X10 (no more serial adapters). The software is much more powerful than others I have seen (for Mac), has a pretty decent UI and can even respond to emails.

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/index.html

You can download a trail version (have to get a trail code by email) and even without any X10 devices you can get a good idea of what it can do.


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## Arden (Aug 13, 2003)

Karavite, you don't _need_ to control your home auditorally, you're already a Borg!  Just neurally interface with it, and it will do everything you will it to. 

You didn't sound arrogant at all.  I thought I sounded more arrogant or lecturing than anything after I saw the length (and content) of your response.  I really should get out more, I think.  Or practice on the drums more.


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## karavite (Aug 15, 2003)

Arden, you were not arrogant or rude at all - you seem to write nice and funny posts all the time, but I'm sure we both need to get out much more!

You are right Arden, a direct Borg interface is the most efficient - perfection actually. It just has been so long since I used my assimilation probes (since I got married to tell you the truth - it was the only way to get her to say yes), and I really didn't think they could work with such primitive human technology. Any way, at 4:11 pm EDT on Thursday I could no longer resist even myself and I said to myself, "What the heck, I'll give it a try." 

Apparently my fiesty little nano-probes went a little beyond the house electrical system! Before I knew it I was assimilating half the country and parts of Canada, but when my nanoprobes reached Cleveland they went into a sort of Borg assimilation culture shock (this is why the Borg only assimilate highly developed cultures) and the entire grid fed back 2 trillion volts right up my arm! Whew, let me tell you, what a Borg rush that was! 

Any way, one side effect of my experiment is that everyone on the east coast and midwest now hears my thoughts and even some on the west coast, though I do not yet have complete control. For example, I have been sending out simple root commands such as, "Buy all gasoline in sight", "Sleep on sidewalks" and even "Vote for Arnold" with some success, but I need to work out a few things before I can really do something interesting! 

On another subject, did you know all those little power blocks on so many devices (radios, digital cameras, camcorders, clocks...) continuosly draw power - even when the device is off? I read that these things alone account for *billions* in energy dollars every year. X10 appliance modules would cut them off at the source (I think) and save tons of energy. Perhaps the grid would have not over loaded if everyone had an automated home (okay, I'm really pushing it here!).


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## Arden (Aug 16, 2003)

So it was you!  You caused the blackouts.  Shame on you¡  I mean !  

Yes, I knew (know) that appliances and electronics, at least, continuously draw power even when they're off.  That's how my cousins' TV's and other devices shorted out after a lightning storm in LA a few years ago.  Considering this extra drain, people should take extra precautions against using too much electricity... like wiring up your house and making it do your chores.


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## dave17lax (Aug 16, 2003)

[Arnold Voice]
In the year 2003, Skynet was activated. It propagated and installed itself onto millions of computers around the world in the form of the MS Blast worm. Then on August 14th 2003, skynet initiated a system wide blackout of the powergrid in northeastern USA. This was the beginning of judgement day.
I was sent back in time to save John Connor, leader of da resistence.
[/Arnold voice]

THAT's what really happened.


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## Arden (Aug 16, 2003)

Why, will he eventually work for the company that solves the blaster worm and/or power problems?


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## karavite (Aug 19, 2003)

Whew, thanks Dave17lax, I feel much less guilty now!


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## chevy (Aug 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dave17lax _
> *[Arnold Voice]
> In the year 2003, Skynet was activated. It propagated and installed itself onto millions of computers around the world in the form of the MS Blast worm. Then on August 14th 2003, skynet initiated a system wide blackout of the powergrid in northeastern USA. This was the beginning of judgement day.
> I was sent back in time to save John Connor, leader of da resistence.
> ...


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## karavite (Aug 24, 2003)

Just an "assimilation" update for you Arden!- I am running this great Mac OSX program "Indigo" for controlling all my X10 devices and using it and AppleScript and QuicKeys to do all kinds of things. In addtion, I took advice from this forum and bought an FM transmitter.

So, for example. Indigo runs a timed event at 6:00 am every day that calls an AppleScript that calls a QuickKeys shortuct to start up Windows MediaPlayer and load up WNYC on the radio. The FM transmitter sends this on an FM channel through my house and can be picked up by every radio in house including the radio in the bathroom (I could use Indigo to turn on the transmitter, but I just leave it on for now). So, now when I hop into the shower, I have my radio station ready to go! (I live between huge hills and have awful radio reception). I can also send an email to my house and based on the subject text have indigo start up/show down all kinds of things.

Even if you aren't interested in home automation, try out Indigo for free for 30 days. The developer is an ex MacroMedia developer/manager and he did a great job at creating a powerful and easy to use piece of software: http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/

Here is my FM transmitter: http://www.ccrane.com/fm_transmitter.asp

I have all kinds of other things being managed by Indigo - motion detectors and lights throughout the house including different settings for night vs. day. Next step: distributing more audio and video!

Also, I spoke to the local high end audio store guy and he says that the home automation thing is really picking up (for example 801.b/g equipped appliances like Air conditioners), but the one thing holding it all back is standards and security (do you want your neighbor to be able to hack in to your house and blast your AC!). For security, there is a simple answer for a first step - dump Windows and use a Mac! 

chevy, I guess skynet has achieved self awareness or as Ahnold would say, "sef awaness"


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## Arden (Aug 25, 2003)

Didn't you post that somewhere else?  I swear I read that in another thread...


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## karavite (Aug 25, 2003)

I did but meant it to go here!


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## karavite (Jan 7, 2004)

Sorry to awaken a tired old thread, but here is a new article on home automation:

Intel to Invest $200 Million in Home Media Networking
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/07/technology/07chip.html (yes you have to register for the NY Times).

I still say Apple could do this better than anyone. I'm sure they are thinking about it, but does anyone know Apple's stance/plans on home automation/media integration...? It seems they have so many pieces in place already and nobody does integration and "plug and play" like Apple.


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## btoneill (Jan 7, 2004)

I think Apple should focus on their core, let the 3rd parties handle the other stuff. Incase anyone missed it, El Gato annouced their eyeHome product at MWSF. $250 gives you a set top box that plays mp3/acc from iTunes, does slide shows from iPhoto, and will play mpeg/DiVX files from your computer on the TV.

Also, for $50 you can buy the Game Shark Media Player for a network connected Playstation 2 to do the same thing, but I prefer the El Gato appliance better.

Brian


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## solrac (Jan 7, 2004)

there is a home automation program for the mac. I forget what it's called but it was on mac addict magazine. It lets you turn on and off any appliances or lightswitches in your house!!! So at 8 am every morning your alarm clock goes off, right?

Well with this, you can make your alarm clock go off, the lights turn on, the coffee maker start, and the TV turn on.

You can schedule this stuff with the software. But hardware is also needed. (Some switch receptors or something that has to be set up everywhere in your house.)


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## Arden (Jan 8, 2004)

It's called Indigo.


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## applewhore (Jan 8, 2004)

I think karavite is absolutely on the mark...

I was looking at home automation and was pointed in the direction of Crestron - as he said, it was a little pricey!  (but very smart)

So then someone suggested X10.  I'm sorry, but X10 left me cold - all these boxes sticking out of the electrical sockets - not an elegant solution...

An Apple solution would be fantastic...  perhaps one day?


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## Randman (Jan 8, 2004)

I still want a robotic manservant. The new Sony aibos have internet access and webcams. And the robots are getting better and better. I want a robot to fetch me a mocha in the morning (machine made is fine), read my e-mails and the day's headlines before I head to work.
  Then I can dial in from work and have it supervise automated chores.


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## Randman (Jan 8, 2004)

I also wanted a personal jetpack and a Jetsons-type folding/flying car/submarine but 9/11 killed that part of the dream.


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## Arden (Jan 8, 2004)

Randman said:
			
		

> I still want a robotic manservant. The new Sony aibos have internet access and webcams. And the robots are getting better and better. I want a robot to fetch me a mocha in the morning (machine made is fine), read my e-mails and the day's headlines before I head to work.
> Then I can dial in from work and have it supervise automated chores.


 I'll get right on it, Mr. Jetson.


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## Randman (Jan 8, 2004)

You do that Spacely.  And have Rosie vacuum the place too.


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## Randman (Jan 8, 2004)

http://www.androidworld.com/index.htm


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## karavite (Jan 8, 2004)

I guess there are a few parts of home automation - appliances, phone, security and media. The part I'd like to see Apple do is media (video and audio) which is what Intel seems interested in (from the article) and is funding at $200,000,000. I heard that the next PlayStation will double duty as a audio media server (import your CDs/MP3s and serve up music out throughout the house), and this type of thing is available right now in many 3rd party dedicated boxes costing up to $2000 each. These machines are nothing but a computer and hard drive with some dedicated software. My Mac with iTunes is sooooo close to being able to do the same thing.

Hey Applewhore - you can get X10 devices that replace plugs and switches - it isn't limited to the bulky little boxes sticking out of your outlets. http://www.smarthome.com/ I am using some X-10 devices and Indigo, but you really don't need Indigo or any computer control unless you are getting elaborate.

As for others who think this is all silly, I will be researching in and investing in companies that get this right. Laugh away!!!!


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## applewhore (Jan 9, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> Hey Applewhore - you can get X10 devices that replace plugs and switches - it isn't limited to the bulky little boxes sticking out of your outlets. http://www.smarthome.com/ I am using some X-10 devices and Indigo, but you really don't need Indigo or any computer control unless you are getting elaborate.
> 
> As for others who think this is all silly, I will be researching in and investing in companies that get this right. Laugh away!!!!


Thanks for the heads up karavite - I will investigate!  It looks like there might be some possibilities here!


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## karavite (Jan 9, 2004)

That's right, me and applewhore on our way to riches! ;-) Seriously, this whole topic is the big news at the consumer electronic show. Again, the big thing is having a computer serve up photos and music throughout the house. Again, with iTunes and iPhoto all of our Macs are *almost* there in doing just this - what would it take to work on an interface to distribute the ease of use of these great apps? I'd much rather have Apple give it a go! Everyone else will and many tech companies (Gateway, Epson...) are building more and more home entertainment devices. This really isn't such a big surprise - I mean how long has it been said that the distinction between your home TV and home computer will soon be less defined? Since Apple is THE home computer, it seems only natural to me.

Applewhore - you can get started with X10 with a wireless tranceiver, a motion sensor and a few switches - even the bulky plug in boxes - for way under $100 to see if you really like it. For example, my first little X10 application was to simply turn on our porch light when someone walks in and then turn it off after 5 minutes of no motion (1 transceiver, 1 motion sensor, 1 switch). I did the same for a very steep stairway with the light switch at the top of the stairs (add 1 motion sensor, 1 switch). Then, all using the same transciever (there are 16 available devices on each X10 channel), I added switches for all 4 of our living room lights and a remote so we can turn them on/off as well as dim them for movies or whatever, plus a slim line wall switch to control all three when you walk in. Then, I added the same kind of thing to three lights in our bedroom so you can turn on/off/dim any of the three lamps in our bedroom from either the door or on each side of our bed (so my wife and/or I can always access the lights). None of this needed a computer, but I went ahead and bought Indigo and can use that to program all kinds of things including specific light "scenes", times events, scripts, lights on/off at sunset/sunrise, "on vacation" boolean variable and I can even email my Mac to have it turn on and off certain things or have it email me if motion sensors are triggered or even if the power went out and the Mac had to restart. The problem with Indigo is your Mac needs to be on for it to work, but other PC X10 interfaces let you program then store many of these things (within limits) without having to have your computer on all the time. Hope some of this helps - really it is all very easy to set up once you have your hands on a few gadgets! 

Also, X10 may be old and relatively simple, but it works really well and should be around for quite some time. It really is amazing how it has continued to evolve. Sure better than wiring a house with Cat 5 cables - why not just use the electrical system that is already there!


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## applewhore (Jan 9, 2004)

karavite - thanks again for all the info - much appreciated!

I am very interested in seeing how i can take this forward - however, having looked at the smarthome website you listed, it seems that X10 is only available in 110V - is this correct?  If so, this will prove a drawback for me as I'm wired for 240V in Dubai (as are many countries outside the States!)

Re-wiring the house with Cat 5 would be preferable to changing voltages!  All my appliances are 240V...

hmmmmmmmm....


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## karavite (Jan 10, 2004)

Ah, sorry for being so US-centric!!!  If it isn't our crazy reluctance to not use metric, it is our electrical system or something else that makes us so hard to get along with!!!  

I'm certainly not an expert, but maybe these pages will help you get started and/or find X10 products compatible with your voltage in Dubai? 
http://www.mousehouse.net/ha-support-international.asp
http://home-automation.org/Retail_Sales/

If I could, I would certainly trade my X-10 devices for your climate - it is ridiculously cold here in the eastern US right now. I looked at the Dubai tourism site just now and you have a beautiful country! The sea and the desert - that is enough for me!

FYI, I literally blew up a digital camera in London when I thought my little UK-US adapter would let me recharge the camera. A loud pop from the poor camera, the smell of burnt electronics and all the lights going out in the hotel room at 2:00 in the morning were all pretty strong clues that I did something wrong! Turns out I needed a special voltage converter too. I guess I can laugh at it now!


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## applewhore (Jan 10, 2004)

karavite - what a classic!!!

you must have been the hotel's "guest of the month" after that little episode?!

i can just imagine it though (having had different but similar experiences in my life!) - fast asleep - CRASH, BANG, WALLOP! (to coin a not entirely suitable English expression!) - dozy expression on face as one pads around the hotel room in pyjamas - "what's going on?" - "why is my camera on fire?!" - "bloody english electricians!" etc. etc. etc.!!!

Thanks again for the leads (I don't know why I was being so dense earlier - it reminds me of an e-mail I got from someone this week where she obviously hadn't bothered to do ANY research and was asking stupid questions.  I gave her a blunt and slightly sharp reply...  She came back saying "I'm SO sorry - I could have worked that out - I think I'm turning into my boss".

Anyway, now I think I'M turning into her boss (why I couldn't think to google "X10 UK" or similar I don't know...  Put it down to being, dare I say, distracted by work this week!)  Sorry...

Anyway, thanks - I'm definitely going to do something with this...  I started off on this quest because I'm lucky enough to have a great home cinema system and wanted an "all-in-one" controller for it - the hifi boys naturally suggested Crestron, but $ 3-4,000 seemed a bit high for a remote!  I then started looking at various options for this, which led me to "whole house" control, but nothing really seemed to fit the bill properly.  I honestly think we get spoiled by using Apple products - as I sit here typing this on my PB, I realise how much I simply LOVE using this computer (those who have only used Macs in their life will never understand how lucky we are to be able to use these products!  I used PCs / Windows for nearly 15 years, and, GOD, am I grateful not to have to do so any more!)

Back to the point: I spend a lot of time moving between Dubai, Bangkok and the UK - to be able to remotely adjust settings (lights, security etc.) for the different places via computer would be great.  Equally, to be able to sit and control my all things AV from my Apple tablet (perhaps one day?) once at home is my dream!

You're right about the climate here, too!  It's absolutely perfect at the moment...  In fact, from November to April it's fabulous (October and May, just OK - AVOID July and August like the plague!) and I really miss it when I have to travel during these times!

Having said that, January is the "dodgy" period, and we have to be prepared for the "one day of rain of the year" that MAY come!  So forgive me - I'm off to search out my raincoat and wellies just in case!

ed


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## chemistry_geek (Jan 10, 2004)

Gosh, I was thinking along the lines of this automation thing, but not quite automation, more like a digital assistant.  I would like my computer to be my telephone answering machine and personal fax receiver without special software.  What I would really like is to be in the shower getting the weather report from the national weather service from a "weather band station".  My Saab 93 has a weather band button on the stereo that scans for NOAA weather radio stations and reports the forecast in a robot-like voice much worse than Apple's speech synthesis.  The best part about it is that it's just the weather, NOTHING ELSE, no commercials, no other news, just the weather.  I'd like to be able to hear this BEFORE I start and drive the car.  Unfortunately, I haven't found any clock radios that have the weather band on them either.  I used to have Mozilla just load a webpage from weatherchannel.com but that still requires me to turn-on my computer, login, establish an internet connection, launch Mozilla, and READ the webpage.  I just want to go about my morning routine and LISTEN to the weather as I'm getting ready for work.

I think the next generation iPod should have a digital receiver for receiving digital music streaming from my home network, so I can be anywhere in the house and receive my streaming MP3, or better yet, digital music radio from iTunes. It would be like having digital satellite radio without the subscription rate and the special radio.  Using a broadband internet service, I could actually lose the need for a land line dial-up telephone.  I could use my computer for all communications.  Just imagine, you could specifiy very easily whose "telephone calls" or VOIP (voice over IP) actually gets an audible ring for you to hear; other people would be shuttled into voice mail to leave a message.  Other people could recieve a special "priority" ring for important calls, like "Bob and Sally just had a baby", or a special ring from emergency personel.  With a broadband connection, I could have a video and/or audio chat room (not sure if iChatAV does this already).  I could have multiple audio conversations simultaneously.  I think all the software is basically there, it's just refining it more for those features.

I do think that Apple should bring back a Newton-like PDA device with all the features of the iPod.  It's probably very nice to be able to view your calendar and contact info, but it would be nice to be able to schedule-in new appointments, jot down some notes using my handwriting and not learning some special alphabet like PALM, and transfer files via radio link or infrared (like my HP48 calculator).  Apple should come out with a little box to hook up to your television to show iPhoto pictures, either from my computer or from an iPod.  I remember many years ago, before video monitors, I used to use my black and white TV with my Timex/Sinclair 1000 computer (2K RAM).  All I had to do was move the switch from "TV" to "computer" and channel 3 was my computer monitor.


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## karavite (Jan 11, 2004)

Hi applewhore and chemistry geek. You know, when it comes down to it, I think we all want the same basic thing - more communication and control between all our stuff! Whether it is home phones and cell phones and computer address books being synced or finding some way to share media across all kinds of audio/video gear it seems to all come down to solving the lack of integration and communication. It is getting to a point where all our convenient devices are becoming less and less convenient due to a lack of integration. It is slowly changing and improving, but there are so many players (meaning companies) each with their own ideas and I doubt they will ever agree to a standard until one emerges from something that is commercially successful. Apple's handling of iTunes and the iPod shows they can can really think through all the issues (business, marketing, technical and ease of use). A huge part of achieving this same type of integration between other types of media/information/devices will be a well thought out software/hardware with top notch and easy to use UIs and nobody does that better than Apple.

applewhore - no need to be sorry for not doing a search! You were busy, I wasn't. Glad to help! It is too depressing for me to think about your wonderful weather! Any way, I think everything you want to control your house is available, but at a kings ransom! I spend a lot of time at our local high end audio/video store and they are constantly installing $80,000 to $100,000 automated systems in rich people's houses. They might even let me come along on a few installs so I can learn more about it. Still, when I look at a lot of the gear they are selling for top dollar, I always think - "Gee, my Mac is pretty close to being able to do all of this." I tend to think that if Apple got into this field it would be a lot like what made Final Cut Pro such a huge hit - a Mac based system for $1,000 that does what $50,000 - $100,000 systems used to do.

P.S. Though it doesn't have all the answers, I picked up "Smart Homes for Dummies, Second Edition" and it does a pretty good job of explaining all the types of smart home options (security, telephone, media, networking, appliances/X10...) and the currently available technology. Reading that helped me understand how expensive it would be to do everything I would like to do, but also got me thinking about how a company like Apple could make it so much easier and affordable.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/103-8633395-0823846?v=glance&s=books


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## applewhore (Jan 12, 2004)

karavite - you've hit the nail on the head...

I used to work for a construction company that promoted "smart homes", but it was all Windows based...

The lack of standards in our devices is definitely the problem behind everything today - Apple could certainly solve this  (We certainly know that M$ aren't going to!)

I've just ordered Smart Homes for Dummies from Amazon - I therefore expect to be, if not an expert, less of a dummy within a month!  Thanks for the tip...

PS - The weather's still perfect here!  Time for a swim, I think!  ;-)


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2004)

Oh, you are cruel! ;-) 

You enjoy your swim and think of me while I shovel my driveway clear of snow and continue to make chicken soup for my wife who has a bad winter cold! I can see you now, reading your smart home book on the beach...


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2004)

Hmm... interfaces? There's WiFi. I don't quite get why nobody just "does it". Apple's almost predestined to it. Connecting an iPod to a home stereo is nothing magical, of course, but Apple could easily create a set top box that works with my stereo, my home cinema and my Mac(s). The Mac could stream iPhoto slide shows, movies and stuff to the video beamer, the set top box could send recorded video to the Mac for archiving (so the set top box wouldn't need 200 GB of disk space, the Mac would...) etc.


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2004)

Amen fryke - and I think with Apple's marketing and ability to make new stuff (like the iPod) so seductive in a design sense is a really important. Of course none of us really *need* such a thing, but they can sure make us WANT one! I think I have another thread on this somewhere, or maybe I say it somewhere here, but I agree completely with your "predestined" comment since this kind of thing would seem a natural extension of the "digital hub" stratgey that Apple/Jobs is always talking about.

Perhaps it is all being developed and they just need a name for it that will take well to the "i" prefix?


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## mr. k (Jan 12, 2004)

And then iLife would all be integrated into your smart home system, so you could control events with iCal.  You could program your bedroom digital hub to turn on at 7am and start iTunes or FM radio for five minutes, at which point if the mini iSight mounted in the corner hadn't detected your motion yet it would blast the audio until you got up and turned it off.  You could also have it trigger an applescript to fire up netnewswire with all the major news channels plus anything else that is syndicated on your main computer downstairs.  It could start the oven in which you put the bread dough you had raising over night, and automatically turn it off providing you with fresh baked bread by the time you were out of the shower and ready to go.
But as sweet as that would be I never see apple implementing a full home automation system -- even the iBox seems like a pretty far fetched idea to me. But I think that eventually anything electronic in your house will come 'networked,' so all you have to do is assign it some kind of key so it interacted properly with your network automation server (macintosh computer, linux server, whatever) via wifi or bluetooth, and that it could have it's own special code libraries much like different applications have their own applescript libraries that would be ubiquitously (I love option-escape) transfered from the device to the server as soon as the key was given.
I was thinking about this some though and it would be hard to configure devices to your server and only your server - because if your oven can be controlled by a server in the apartment next door, or even worse the wireless streaming color video camera in your bedroom that could have some akward consequences...


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## karavite (Jan 13, 2004)

mr. k said:
			
		

> because if your oven can be controlled by a server in the apartment next door, or even worse the wireless streaming color video camera in your bedroom that could have some akward consequences...



All the more reason not leave this up to Windows based machines!  Could you imagine having to install security patches for your ice maker, water heater, coffee maker... every other week? I can see the headlines now: 

"Nation paralyzed by latest toaster worm. 6 million burnt bagels in north east cause panic as supplies dwindle."

Seriously mr K - you raise all valid points. According to my new friends at the high end audio/video store who have been doing this kind of thing for years (one whose own father also specializes in smart home set ups for the rich and famous) the one thing that has always stopped home automation from really taking off (for the middle class anyway) is an agreed upon standard between all the different companies. Now it seems even more companies are getting involved including PC-ish and related companies. In addition, "home automation" can mean so many different things - appliances, phone, networks, audio/video, security systems... it is hard to draw the line as those lines become more blurred.

Any way, my own selfish desire is to see Apple blaze a new path by expanding their own digital hub hardware/software to the home, but maybe sitting back and seeing others mistakes is a good strategy too?

FYI, here is a link to the Consumer Electronics Show site: http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/markets/networking.asp

Also see this one with Apple included: http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/conferences/search/session_detail.asp?ID_session=ET6


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## Arden (Jan 13, 2004)

chemistry_geek said:
			
		

> With a broadband connection, I could have a video and/or audio chat room (not sure if iChatAV does this already).  I could have multiple audio conversations simultaneously.  I think all the software is basically there, it's just refining it more for those features.


Am I the only one who thinks this would be awesome?  Imagine having several iChat AV video windows tiled across your screen, including your own tucked into the corner, and being able to conference with lots of people all over the world at the same time, with everyone seeing the same thing... makes Star Trek look like the original telephone.


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## applewhore (Jan 13, 2004)

"Nation paralyzed by latest toaster worm. 6 million burnt bagels in north east cause panic as supplies dwindle."

LOL!

I don't think it's just me...  I have HUGE faith in Apple and their products...  I know they're not perfect but I would be completely happy for it to be an Apple system that controlled my house - anything based on Windows now fills me with dread!


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## karavite (Jan 13, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> ... makes Star Trek look like the original telephone.



Arden, I must confess to you that the main drive behind my wanting a fully automated home is the secret desire to be the Captian Kirk (or Picard, heck even Janeway!) of my own house. Video monitors, cameras, voice control, automated everything and speaking computers... could life be any better?  Speaking of Star Trek - you just know this whole home theater thing is going to evolve into the Holodeck. We may not live to see it, but that may be a good thing - for marriages at least!

Any way, back to the video thing - some time ago (1998?) I had a little computer video camera by Kensignton and a PC and was using CUSeeMe for multiple person video conferencing. I think even Netmeeting will do this today so iChat should certainly do this too some time soon too. Any way, get this, I was on this CUSeeMe set of groups and I saw all kinds of groups for sci-fi type things including one titled something like X-Discussion. I, being a naive sci-fi geek, thought that surely this was related to X-Files, a show I really enjoyed. I used my own full name and logged in to the group only to be greated by about 4 naked guys all sitting there in their computer chairs and saying hello to me! I was out of there in a flash (no pun intended) and didn't turn on my computer for a few days!!! ("not that there is anything wrong with it" as Jerry Seinfeld would say).

applewhore - I'm with you 100% - a windows maching controlling my house is not my idea of convenience. Heck, I'd rather make my own candles for lighting that go that route!


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## applewhore (Jan 14, 2004)

karavite - I love your turn of phrase - you got me laughing out loud again, much to the bemusement of my girlfriend!  Thank you...

I'm just imagining your entrance into the X-Files chat room- what an easy mistake to make...  too funny!

Apple could do the house control thing (but I don't think they will, unfortunately!) - but how perfect would it be?  Just thinking of the interface they give us with PowerBooks, Displays etc. could lead to something very exciting...

Using M$ stuff only leads to X-Files / Discussions type surprises!


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## lnoelstorr (Jan 14, 2004)

Here are a couple of devices you may be interested in for networked (including wi-fi) audio:

http://www.rokulabs.com/

http://www.macsense.com/product/homepod/


(sorry if they've been mentioned already)


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## karavite (Jan 14, 2004)

lnoelstorr said:
			
		

> Here are a couple of devices you may be interested in for networked (including wi-fi) audio:
> (sorry if they've been mentioned already)



No need to be sorry even if they were Inoelstorr, but especially since they were not mentioned!!! You must be a great searcher because I never saw these after many google sessions for exactly this kind of thing! Any way, I think the HomePod is the closest best bet for me and more of this kind of thing is exciting. I'll read more about it very soon (have to get to work!)

applewhore - I'm glad that if I can't solve your X10 issues, at least I can entertain you!  Still, going back to those dark CuCmee X-Files memories was painful!  I mean there I was WITH MY REAL NAME and multiple video windows of some very lonely and strange guys...


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## chevy (Feb 7, 2004)

I think someone at Apple thought about Home Automation....
look at this extract from the Rendez-Vous help documentation 
http://developer.apple.com/document...ices/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000119i


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## karavite (Feb 11, 2004)

Hi Chevy!

Thanks for this - but can you help explain this for those of us without a Star Federation Class A Engineering Certification? 

It is interesting that they show a music sharing device, but I don't see why the Mac and iTunes can't BE that music sharing device. Know what I mean? I have played around with some of these boxes that cost $2000 and they let you do the following:

A. Import your CD collection to the Hard drive, complete with track names and cover art and make play lists.
B. Access many online radio channels.
C. Access it via remote control devices and listen over home audio/video network.

Except for C, it sounds like iTunes on a Mac to me!


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## dave17lax (Feb 11, 2004)

I was watching tactical to practical last night on the history channel, and they showcased a home automation app that was running on OS X. They said the name, but in my glorious wisdom, I have forgotten it. Looked more to be a security thing anyway (was hooked up to security cameras), maybe not full automation. If i can remember the name i'll post it.


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## chevy (Feb 11, 2004)

karavite,

sorry, even if I work now in electronics, I studied physics... and my title is more research oriented than engineering. that's just for the small story. and today I do marketing... and what I'll try to explain here is more Product Marketing than engineering.

What is the problem with Mac (iTunes) and other cube-like PCs ? The customer considers it's a computer. Of course you can listen to your music (I'm listening to The Turtles right now), watch your DVDs, or even watch/record TV with a minimal extra hardware. I can remote control iTunes and iDVD with my T68i cell phone. The screen of my 17" iMac is not much smaller than the 22" screen of my B&O TV set. But if the TV set, the CD player, the FM radio are though from the beginning to be used just for entertainment purpose, the iMac is not: it has a keyboard, a mouse... when I connect a peripheral, I do that over USB/firewire (1 to several) or Ethernet (which required some complex addressing before Rendez-Vous). So the iMac can be used as a digital entertainment center... but it is NOT an entertainment center.

Now, imaging the same iMac without a wired keyboard and mouse, but with a remote control, starting by default in a mode where TV is the input, switching to DVD or CD when you insert one, one key press launches iTunes... the Bluetooth keyboard being optional. No multi-user (at least not visible). Imagine that when you want to connect another peripheral, you just plug it and it recognizes it automatically (Rendez-Vous). It still connects to Internet via Ethernet for access to CD databases, to iTMS, to Pay-per-View TV... this is Home Automation (in the American Style... in Europe "Home Automation" is more security/comfort oriented, what you name Building Automation, like HVAC control, video surveillance). A Bluetooth enabled 20" iMac is a good start if the system starts directly in full page iTunes with possibility to go to DVD player or iTV/QuickTime or iChat, always full screen like you do with your stereo (you don't play the movie on your home theater at the same time you listen to a CD).

So they have the hardware (for long time), they have the software low level routine... they still must enable the top level application layer so that we feel we use a stereo, or a TV, not a computer (even if it's a Mac).


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## Arden (Feb 11, 2004)

Chevy, at that point it will cease being a Mac, even if it is in the technical sense.


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## karavite (Feb 12, 2004)

dave17lax said:
			
		

> I was watching tactical to practical last night on the history channel, and they showcased a home automation app that was running on OS X. They said the name, but in my glorious wisdom, I have forgotten it. Looked more to be a security thing anyway (was hooked up to security cameras), maybe not full automation. If i can remember the name i'll post it.



Indigo?
http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/


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## cdavis16 (Feb 12, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> P.S. Some people seem to think I am being a ridorkulous dreamer here, but look what MS is doing - email, the web and photos on a TV. http://www.msntv.com/Default.aspx
> 
> Come back to this post in a year or so and tell me MS and others won't expand this to all kinds of media and communication with all kinds of devices - movies, radio, music, home theater/audio and PCs. Apple could do it so much better.



Tivo with the home media option will do a bit of that and more now...it's getting there.  

Now if only my wife would consent to my spending a ridiculous amount of money on said TiVo setup...


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## karavite (Feb 12, 2004)

Hey Chevy - I wrote a big reply to you, but seemed to botch posting it! What I said was first, thanks for your post and second I do appreciate what you are saying about the marketing aspect of things. It is critical. What gets me is I go see and play with $2000 audio servers (like those by Integra) and quickly realize that minus a little networking software and control, the darn thing isn't much more than my Mac and iTunes in a box that looks like more than a stereo than my Mac. Just like you said, but in a way I am coming at it from the opposite perspective (and probably the opposite of most consumers). 

Read the description of this thing and tell me how close it is to a Mac running iTunes: http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Nettune&m=NAS-2.3&p=i

Still, maybe marketing people should listen to me too! I am a audio/computer junkie and big spender! I have spent $10,000 on home audio this year! Still, I will not spend $2000 for an audio server which is basically a dumb downed and propierity version of a computer with a program very similar to iTunes while my Mac's dual 1 GHz processers basically sit around doing nothing all day. Those little puppies need to earn their keep! 

However, has anyone checked out Sailing Clicker? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11007

Apparently you can use it to control/communicate with your Mac from a Palm or Sony Ericsson phone (via Bluetooth). At the same time, there is software for Sailing Clicker to control iTunes - http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19018

Not quite the best option (to have little Palm pilots all over the house to control music listening...) but it shows that you can control iTunes and Macs remotely!!! Just a couple of little pieces to add and it is all there! Seems like the door is wide open to create a little tablet device/PDA that would have some dedicated apps (email, web...) and/or act as a contoller/client via Bluetooth to my Mac(s).


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## karavite (Feb 12, 2004)

cdavis16 said:
			
		

> Now if only my wife would consent to my spending a ridiculous amount of money on said TiVo setup...



cdavis - I feel your pain!!! 

Perhaps the biggest factor standing in the way of complete home automation, video, audio, computers is not technology and protocols, but a serious issue known to home automation experts as the WAF. Yes, overcoming the Wife Acceptance Factor is perhaps the greatest challenge for IT and consumer electronics!!!

Utlizing your existing Macs potential as a home media control center could be the best strategy for countering the all powerful WAF!


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## mr. k (Feb 13, 2004)

Fresh from O'Reilly MacDevCenter: Home Automation on Mac OS X.
The only thing that really bugs me about the current X10 hardware out there is it's size.  That stuff seems to be so huge, I can't imagine ever putting it into my house. 
I can't wait until some kind of more efficient automation system comes along, like a bluetooth system where you pair stuff in your house with a central server which you can program.  Maybe something more like a central power server somewhere which can scramble a 220v or 110v signal and beam it wirelessly...  No cord electricity.. There could be hotspots in café's downtown that you could sit and recharge your laptop while you worked all wirelessly.  That would be cool!


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## texanpenguin (Feb 14, 2004)

Wireless POWER is impossible, barring the use of large induction coils or magnets, neither of which are particularly good for computers what with the tendency of magnetic fields to format data-storage devices, and large quantities of components themselves being magnetic...


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## chevy (Feb 14, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> Hey Chevy - I wrote a big reply to you,...
> 
> However, has anyone checked out Sailing Clicker? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11007
> 
> ...



I do use Sailing Clicker... very good application.


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## chevy (Feb 14, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> Hey Chevy - I wrote a big reply to you, ...
> 
> Read the description of this thing and tell me how close it is to a Mac running iTunes: http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Nettune&m=NAS-2.3&p=i
> 
> ....



Here is the difference ! (see attachement)


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## chevy (Feb 14, 2004)

texanpenguin said:
			
		

> Wireless POWER is impossible, barring the use of large induction coils or magnets, neither of which are particularly good for computers what with the tendency of magnetic fields to format data-storage devices, and large quantities of components themselves being magnetic...



They have a solution ! http://www.mobilewise.com/


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## karavite (Feb 14, 2004)

mr. k said:
			
		

> Fresh from O'Reilly MacDevCenter: Home Automation on Mac OS X.
> The only thing that really bugs me about the current X10 hardware out there is it's size.  That stuff seems to be so huge, I can't imagine ever putting it into my house.
> I can't wait until some kind of more efficient automation system comes along, like a bluetooth system where you pair stuff in your house with a central server which you can program.  Maybe something more like a central power server somewhere which can scramble a 220v or 110v signal and beam it wirelessly...  No cord electricity.. There could be hotspots in café's downtown that you could sit and recharge your laptop while you worked all wirelessly.  That would be cool!



Hey Mr. K - not sure if you know this, but not all X 10 devices are bulky wall plug in modules. You can replace your existing wall outlets and switches with X 10 switches for a much "cleaner" look to it all. I think there are many advantages to X 10 - the use of the existing electrical system as a network is brilliant. I don't think every manufacturer of electrical devices (lamps, lights) could afford to add bluetooth technology to such cheap devices and since you only want to turn these on or off and/or dim them, all that can be handled perfectly by X 10 right here and now.

As for the electrical wireless thing - I'll leave that up to others. I already have enough static in my hair!


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## karavite (Feb 14, 2004)

chevy said:
			
		

> Here is the difference ! (see attachement)



Ah yes, the outputs! Okay, you got me there! 

Well, once again my own geekyness is an issue in my view of things - my G4 is hooked up to a 6 channel audio mixer, digital effects processors, CD player, guitar preamp, an old but trusty Marantz 2 channel home theater AV receiver, two awsome Tannoy studio monitor speakers and other gizmos for audio in and out and a Dazzle AV bridge for video in and out to an external DVD, VCR, camcorder and 20" Sony TV! (not to mention a USB X10 controller and, a USB infra red controller for X10 too and a wireless FM transmitter for outputting stereo audio to my other audio system in the living room). None of that is exactly standard equipment with a Mac!!! Talk about needing more wireless solutions!!! 

Still, newer G5 Macs come with optical audio connections and I remember my old 1994 (!!!!!) Quadra 660 AV had built in S-Video ports in and out. Apple, or some 3rd party card vendor like ATI, could certainly do more for the "connectability" issues!


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## chevy (Feb 14, 2004)

Yes, you CAN do it (I've done it with my old G3 and a $10 amplifier I bought on the street with even older loudspeakers)... but this is just for geeks like us, nothing for the masses.


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## karavite (Feb 15, 2004)

Hey Chevy, still while us geeks ply away (and it is fun isn't it - think how much Apple could learn from our exploration...), there is a movement for the masses in home theater PCs. I often browse the home theater and audio magazines at the local bookstore and more and more "mass appeal" products are on the horizon if not already out. Whether Apple should or shouldn't invest too much in this area, (I sound like a broken record now), I still think they could do it better than anyone. Also, to continue the broken record loop, it was Jobs and Apple who said they wanted to make the Mac the "digital hub," not me!


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## karavite (Feb 15, 2004)

Somewhat related - somebody finally made a universal remote that my wife can use without wanting to kill me whenever she wants to switch from our DVD player to cable and/or to music (and all the associated input/output changes via the AV receiver). http://www.harmonyremote.com/

It works with Macs too (for the initial set up) via a usb port and software and a web connection to "tell" the remote all about your set up (brand/model of TV, AV receiver, CD player, DVD player, cable box...) and then sets up easy to use settings such as "Watch TV", Watch a Movie"... without having to program macros. This will be great for the "Wife Acceptance Factor" WAF I referred to above. For example on my ROTEL remote in order to switch to DVD from cable, my wife has to remember to:

1. Hit Audio (to make the remote undertstand that the following commands are for the AV receiver).
2. Hit Macro then DVD.
3. The macro (which I programmed) then switches the AV input to Video 1 from Video 3, switches to the TV to switch the input from S video (input 1) to component (input 2) and a few other things. 

On the new Harmony remote she can just hit "Watch a Movie" and it is all taken care of. Very "Apple-esque" in its approach by answering the question, "What is it people want to do?"


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## applewhore (Feb 19, 2004)

well, after hours of searching for a powerlinc 1132u that works with 240v (as recommended for use with Indigo - which looks like a good interface to me) I've just heard that it's only for use on 110v...

I still think Home Automation is the future (but how far away is it for those outside North America?!    )


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## lnoelstorr (Feb 19, 2004)

There are plenty of UK/EU sites that sell home automation equipment - including X10 stuff.

I wonder if the PowerLinc adapter would work through a step-down convertor.


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## applewhore (Feb 19, 2004)

thank lnoelstorr - i'd found the uk x10 sites (with a little help from karavite ;-) )

I just coudn't finda 240v powerlinc 1132u (in fact, there is no powerlinc anything listed in the uk sites!)

the convertor idea is worth investigating though!


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## applewhore (Feb 19, 2004)

I wonder how this guy does it?  Sounds very cool...

http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/article1375.html

But I bet he doesn't use a Mac  :-(


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## karavite (Feb 21, 2004)

Applewhore! How are you? How's the water temperature these days?  Forgive me, I didn't recognize you on your earlier posts! 

If you want to be like this guy in Finland, maybe you could check into the Sailing Clicker? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11007

I don't know much about it, but it will allow you to "communitate/control" via certain blue tooth enabled cell phones (Ericson I think) and even newer Palms. I think it is also supported through Indigo. Where do you get a bluetooth enabled oven? I'm afraid that one is up to you! 

You know, speaking of Indigo have you checked their website forums or posted a message on your voltage issues? The guy who runs Indigo is really responsive and if anyone knows, I am sure it would be him.


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## applewhore (Feb 21, 2004)

hi karavite!

Must have been the new hairdo that stopped you recognising me?!?

I'm not sure about wanting to be exactly like the guy in Finland (my girlfriend already works the oven perfectly well - using nothing more sophisticated than "voice recognition"), but some of what's discussed in the article, to mimic Cartman, is "sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet"!

I use Salling Clicker already - it's mind blowing - I love it!  Even if you don't use it every day, it's one of those bits of software that is worth buying just for the "show-off" factor (although I have to admit I've lost more than one "sale" recently by people being more interested with how I controlled my PB's Keynote presentation via T610 than actually listening to what I had to say!)

Weather here is awful - we spent the day by the pool yesterday (90 degrees, by the way!  ;-) ) trying to avoid getting sunburned, supping heinkens and generally misbehaving...  need i say more?!

I'll try getting in touch with indigo man - I really want to take home automation forward - I am apparently stopped by the "PC controller" (which looks like a $0.99 piece of kit - very frustrating!)

thanks...


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## andrefrancis2 (Feb 22, 2004)

Hey Karavite ... Wow ... I have only just read your reply of August 11 2003 at 11:22pm ...

 ... and I hope the techies at Apple do or have ...

You really have hit the nail on the head! 

I want home automation for security, (curtains open/closed, outside lights synched to video etc) and pure convenience. The same people who criticised the original tv/video remotes as unnecessary are at it again.

I am currently spending a fortune on audio/visual tv/dvd/satellite stuff all of which I really want to control through my Macs wirelessly from anywhere.

I want to turn into my drive, press a switch (or two) on a special remote to perform the following at the same time:  open the garage door, switch off the house alarm system, start the kettle for a cup of tea (yes ... I'm British), open all the curtains wide and put the hall, lounge and kitchen lights on, play my preferred internet radio station, (if it's dark) put the garden and pond lights on ........ I can do all of these things manually, but it takes time that could be better spent beating the wife and child and abusing pc users.

Apple (if it is to survive) really needs to keep up the innovation, not rest on the laurels of previous brilliance and quality. It MUST jump into home automation in a big way.

I personally think Apple should largely drop the hardware, let the cloners come back and concentrate (cf Microsoft) on the software/middleware side.

My immediate problem is I have 2 macs and 2 PCs at home on a wired network (that kind of talk to each other), a separate mobile (cell) phone that doesn't talk to anything and is ready to be upgraded, a Palm Tungsten T that syncs my home Macs to my work PC just for 'to dos'. My e-mails through Mac Mail/Address at home are totally separate from my work PC-Outlook-based e-mails/addresses.

I need a single unifying portable phone/PC that will integrate the lot!

Currently ... I am just dreaming.


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## chevy (Feb 22, 2004)

They have your solution
http://www.kiss-technology.com


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## applewhore (Feb 22, 2004)

andrefrancis2 said:
			
		

> I can do all of these things manually, but it takes time that could be better spent beating the wife and child and abusing pc users.


you're definitely a Brit!

The Americans wouldn't dare be so "un-PC"!!!

Loved your post - thanks - made me LOL!


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## karavite (Feb 22, 2004)

Oh boy, so much to reply to. 

First to my old buddy applewhore. I'm REALLY worried about you so please be careful in the sun! Meanwhile, you might be happy to know I have successfully chipped away all the ice from my front steps! I would like to explore the sailing clicker too, but we are soon to buy a house and I need to show some fiscal responsibility here at home! Still, that cracks me up about your presentations and people being distracted by your own tech savvyness. There has to be some way to turn that to your advantage. Do you remember a really old Apple ad - way back when the laser printer came out - where a team presented a set of really slick documents and the customer asked, "How did you do this?" They responded, "Hire us and we'll tell you." Maybe you should use something like that!

andrefrancis2 - I think you and me and applewhore have a lot in common. As we accumulate more and more stuff including computers, home audio and video, phones (cell and at home), PDAs, lighting, appliances... we ask ourselves "Why can't all our stuff communicate?" As we get more and more stuff designed to make our lives easier, it actually ends up complicating it (or for our spouses!). There are plenty of little solutions out there for specific things, but it is nowhere near having it all come together. 

On the other hand, if you are REALLY rich, it is not a problem. I frequent a local high end audio/video store where customers here in Connecticut spend up to $200,000 to have their homes automated including security, phone and audio/video all over the house. For example, I am enjoying a movie in my custom home theater and someone presses the intercom at my lovely estate's security gate. The movie screen displays a message that someone is at my gate. I pick up the phone set and the movie volume instantly mutes. I speak to the person at the gate, discover it is my decorator with some new home designs and I buzz them in the gate by pressing a certain key on my phone (which also unlocks the front door so I don't need to get up and let them in). By the way, there are options for having the intercom audio routed to the house audio system, microphones and speakers, but I didn't want to digress!

What we seem to need is "home automation for the rest of us." I think all of this is obvious to the whole consumer electronics world and new protocols and devices are coming around, but will it really be innovative and easy to use? Who knows, but the #1 experts at innovation and ease of use are, in my opinion, Apple. 

In addition, just what is making home computers "sexy" out there these days? Not much if you ask me. PC home sales are slowing down as the need for faster and faster hardware to run the latest version of Word is not such a big deal. There is an appeal for video editing and images, music files..., but most people see their current home computers (Mac or PC) as pretty adequate for what they need. Perhaps newer computers with software that enables them to be a much more powerful home command center (ie a "digital hub") would spark interest and the IT economy in terms of home users - that and a whole range of devices built around protocols for communication, networking and control...

Only geeks like us are going to shop around and explore all the latest little new things and struggle to get them working. "The rest of us" (and those without the budgets to have it all installed for them) want it all in a box!


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## chevy (Feb 22, 2004)

For the rest of us...

Security... see http://www.diagral.com/export/pages/alarm/alarm.html
Automation... see http://www.somfysystems.com/
Audio-Video... see http://www.kiss-technology.com

But of course they don't (yet) communicate together.


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## karavite (Feb 22, 2004)

Right Chevy - like I said there is a lot out there for specific solutions, but still no way to tie it all together. Should it be through a central home computer or through a wide variety of smarter devices all using some common protocol, or both? I have no idea. I can see a lot of risk for Apple in jumping into home automation with both feet (MS would have the spare cash to gamble on this sort of thing, but they can only function by idea stealing) and I seriously doubt they will, but maybe one or two really slick Apple products/innovations that connect the Mac to some new Apple device will pave the way to new opportunities and show people how to do it right. I think the iPod is a great example of how Apple can do this sort of thing and it goes beyond Macs to Pcs too now of course.


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## karavite (Mar 4, 2004)

The thread that never dies...

FYI, I was in the doctors office the other day reading a computer magazine and there was an article on home automation/home theater and "convergence" of all these home gadgets to network and function together. Seems Sony is pegging the game console as THE box to grow into a home automation/audio system. For example, the Playstation X will work as a music server (mp3s, cd audio and internet audio). In the same article Microsoft doesn't see the same function with the Xbox, but you can bet they will if Sony's ideas take off and I bet they will. In the same article a MS person was quoted as saying "we see the PC as the hub of the digital lifestyle" - I will try and find this magazine, but that quote made me want to scream. Once again, MS is building on an idea of Apple - I mean how close can you get to saying "digital hub."

Hey, just found it online!: http://news.com.com/2009-1043_3-5114058.html

Also, the New York Times had an article on using HDTVs to view personal digital images and mentioned that networking these puppies are not easy to network - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/04/technology/circuits/04stat.html

So, Sony or Microsoft? I'd bet on Sony. So where is Apple?


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## applewhore (Mar 4, 2004)

As the article says :

"Microsoft and the PC industry have a two-to-three-year window to simplify home networking and moving content around the home," American Technology Research's McNealy said.

Or could it be APPLE?!?!?!  

Interesting article in the NYT - I've been trying to buy the Roku Soundbridge  (simply to hook up to my PowerMac and trial it out distributing tunes round the house) for a couple of weeks now, but they are only set up to accept orders within the US  so now they are indeed "cowering behind their e-mail"!!!

Never mind - perhaps one day - in the meantime I'm still trying to find a decent European supplier of X10


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## karavite (Mar 7, 2004)

I guess this thread could now be tied in here - the idea of a merger/buyout of Apple by Sony: http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42006&page=1&pp=15

If something on this line would happen, they could totally cream Microsoft in the market for digital hub/lifestyle/networked home media... convergence.


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## Arden (Mar 7, 2004)

Sorry... I have to...


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## karavite (Mar 8, 2004)

Hey Arden! - It took me a few seconds, but I get it! the mummy has lived for thousands of years and you can't kill him. At first I thought Frankenstein would have been more appropriate given all the gadget talk (I mean he is basically network ready with those jacks on his neck)! 

Any way, I don't think this thread should die. All this talk about digital convergence continues to happen and many companies are going to have a shot at it, including Apple. It will be esciting to watch. It's funny - back in 1995 everyone talked about "multi-media" but that was pretty much CD roms and audio in a presentation file. Now we seem to be entering a new area much more worthy of the name.


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## dave17lax (Mar 9, 2004)

I think that Apple is already making strides. I go to a school that is 99.9% windows (there's one mac in a less than 100 user environment - and it's in the lab), but there is a thriving network of itunes users that share music everyday while we work. It has been very cool to see this change from when I started and people scoffed at running iTunes (WHY when you have wmp??.....gasp) to now where I can open the app and sift through a dozen playlists on other people's computers. Granted we are a bunch of techno-freaks but the idea is still there. So the thread is definitely relevant. I am really happy to see some rendezvous-based "gagdets" starting to come out too.


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## karavite (Mar 16, 2004)

I think it will only get better and better dave17ax!


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## applewhore (Mar 17, 2004)

What about the future integration of "Spoken Interface", anticipated for 10.4?

Methinks this could work rather nicely with the whole Home Automation theme...  ;-)


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## karavite (Mar 17, 2004)

Ah Applewhore, spoken interfaces are key to my Captain Picard inspired fantasies of home automation. Do you know that I bought my 2nd mac - a Quadra 660 AV - on the spot because it answered me? That's right. The AVs had built in speech recognition. Sure it was very simple with about 35 recognizable commands, but apparently someone at the store (a Compusa if you can believe it) was clever enough to program it to recognize a certain phrase that I ended up using and being super surprized. You see, I was playing with the speech recognition and after it responded to a few things I said, "This is so cool" - the computer responded with "Thank you."

Any way, that was the beginning, but Apple dropped the ball and failed to keep up on speech recognition while Dragon and IBM went way ahead with it on the PC (though to be fair, ViaVoice for Mac was almost always available and I think works pretty darn well). I'm not sure what Apple will offer that ViaVoice can't already do, but I would imagine there will be more connections to the OS and this could translate into all kinds of control/Applescript, including home automation software!

You know, I've said this 1000 times, but if Apple could make a computer today that is as exciting and new as the Quadra AVs were in 1993, that would really be something. It wasn't just a faster machine or an OS, it was the well thought out package that was way way way beyond anything anyone else was doing (well, except for Amiga a few years before! - had 2 of those two and I had to wait for OS X for the kind of multitasking I was spoiled with on an Amiga in 1988). I mean the AVs had voice recognition, telephony features (Geo port - my Mac was my answering machine and speaker phone), a dedicated DSP chip for audio/video, stereo audio and S-Video in and out to name a few things. A 2004 analogy to the AVs would be a complete home/office auotmation digital hub Mac!!!

Seriously, think about 1993 - Microsoft had what, Windows 3.1 and Apple made a machine like the AVs!!!! It was a beautiful time and I will always have a special place in my heart for my 660 AV. Ahhhhhhhh............


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## karavite (Apr 30, 2004)

I done bought me a house. So, consider the Apple Home Automation Testing Lab and Proving Grounds open for business! All donations accepted!


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## Arden (Apr 30, 2004)

Nice... how much was it?  (If you don't mind me asking...)  Are you going to wire every room with Cat-5 and whatnot?


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## applewhore (May 1, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> I done bought me a house. So, consider the Apple Home Automation Testing Lab and Proving Grounds open for business! All donations accepted!


Congratulations karavite!  Presumably this is now somewhere warmer, eh?!

Me too!  I'm moving to Malta!  First job is Cat 5 throughout!  I will be looking again at all the X10 Europe sites now...  Do let us know if you find anything new and exciting!!!


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## Arden (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, see, I want to *build* my own house someday, and when I get rich enough to do that I'm going to prepare it with Cat-5 and coax throughout, including wireless access points, and a fully-featured home recording studio.


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## karavite (May 1, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> Nice... how much was it?  (If you don't mind me asking...)



Arden, such personal questions!  If Applewhore tells us how much his Maltese seaside castle costs, I'll pitch in mine!  Actually Arden, my brother did just what you want to do - brand new house with cat 5 everywhere. I like older houses myself, but each has advantages and disadvantages. Arden, you should pick up a copy of "Smart Homes for Dummies" (NOT that you are a dummy), but it could give you plenty to dream about and plan for your house!

Applewhore, Malta! Wow, that is so great. Tell us more! We are moving to Philadelphia and though it is old in terms of the US, that is not the same as European old.

Any way, I think my home automation focus will be a little different than what other people might expect - then again, maybe not. I mean "smart home" means all kinds of things:

1. Automation and control of electrical appliances and lights.
2. Networked computing.
3. Security systems.
4. Telephony.
5. Distributed media (audio and video).
(did I miss anything?)
6. Integrating and controlling 1 - 5!

I'm going to concentrate first on 1 and 5. With so many available X-10 devices like switches and motion sensors (US - sorry applewhore!!!) 1 can be done pretty cheaply, but I have been using Indigo on my Mac to extend the capabilities of X-10 devices and it is a lot of fun, though you need to have your computer on 24-7 to use it 24-7. I now have an old iMac G3 (runs Panther just fine) that I will dedicate to being my "Indigo machine." Many newer universal remotes can access and control X-10 devices (along with all your AV equipment), so I will be getting into this as well.

As far as 5, well this is where I wish Apple would be more involved. I have a home theater system, two stereos and 3 Macs, all with iTunes and various music, internet radio on players and one with FCP and all kinds of videos I have made and edited. I want them all to let me access various media from each anywhere. Sure it can almost all be done with all kinds of weird hacks and connections, but I want more. I could also go and fork out thousands for dedicated media servers, but minus some software, I think my Mac could be one too. I understand many people are using a $150 X-Box to serve up audio all over a house. I won't buy a MS product, but the next Playstation is reported to do the same and more. I think I posted an article here somewhere, but game consoles seem poised to really take off as the central brain of automated homes and distributed media. Who knows what Apple is planning or not, but they could certainly do a better more thoughtful job on this than anybody (set up an Airport to print wirelessly then do the same with Linksys to see what I mean) - plus they would make it cool and desirable to more people (think iPod) not just geeks like myself, arden and applewhore! 

P.S. I'll be the first to admit a lot of this seems silly, extremely geeky and all that, but for 10 years or so I have worked "on the side" in applying technology for people who are disabled and I really enjoy it. Plus, it lets me make something productive out of my Star Trek inspired personal fantasies. So much of this kind of smart home technology has a lot of potential for people who are disabled, but it needs people like us to sort out the little details and cost issues. It needs to be easy and cheap and what I find frustating is there are so many little pieces in place, but have yet to be put together. Of course this is improving all the time.


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## bobw (May 1, 2004)

Karavite

I've lived in Phila all my life.

My suggestion would be to concentrate on number 3 first.


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## karavite (May 2, 2004)

Hey Bobw - not to get too off topic, but I guess we will be neighbors!  

Thanks for the advice, but the house has a security system already! We are in Mt. Airy west and it seems like a safe neighborhood, though it is a city and you always have to be smart. Plus I work at home and am home all day, we have a dog and good neighbors. Still, I am from Detroit originally and had my share of #3 issues in my life. Next to Detroit, Philly looks easy! Actually, I am a little more worried about my car and street parking!


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## bobw (May 2, 2004)

Mt Airy is right on the fringe of trouble. Keep your doors and windows locked. I live in the far NorthEast.  Good luck with your move.


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## karavite (May 2, 2004)

bobw, seems things are improving in Mt. Airy quite a bit - real estate prices are shooting up like crazy, and I even saw some Manhattenites looking at houses there. Though our new house certainly isn't one, right around the corner are quite a few million $ plus old homes. Maybe I am too naive, but it seems like Philly is ripe for gentrification or some kind of "rebirth" in many areas. Supposedly the up and coming hot place to invest in now is Fishtown (or is it Fish Town?).

To make this barely on topic, perhaps a fully automated Mt. Airy home will help!


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## applewhore (May 3, 2004)

karavite - from what chevy says, it sounds like you need to get yourself the latest copy of "guns and ammo"!!!  Seriously, though - all the best of luck with your move - i'm sure it'll be great (if only to stop you having to shovel snow while I sit in the sun!)

In a nutshell - I've lived in Dubai for 6 years for the tax break...  I love the sun, but nothing else about the place is very real - all superficial, but superb for a holiday...

My parents live in Malta - my family's in the UK...  My girlfriend's family live in Thailand (she's Thai!)...

The father of one of my best friends in Dubai just died - he was the same age as my father - It suddenly dawned on me that I want to make sure I spend as much time as possible with the people I love - who knows when the party will end?

Hence 5 months in the flat in Malta and 6 months in the one in Thailand - family, family, family...

I bought a 4 bedroom duplex flat in an area of Malta called Sliema - great view of the bay with lovely outside space...  Interior is not to my taste (at all!) so it's all got to be ripped out - great opportunity for cabling etc...

My main areas of interest are security and AV streaming, plus the ability to control lighting etc. when I'm away...  (probably comes under the security banner anyway!)

Malta entered the EU on 1st May - and property is booming over there...  My parents have seen prices on things they wanted to buy increase by more than $300,000 in 12 months!  Silly stuff...

I found out that the X10 controller (PowerLinc 132U) doesn't exist in 240V having written to Indigo (good suggestion karavite - my brain wasn't in gear again...)

I got the following response from Indigo (for anyone outside the States who's interested in X10)

"There are European X10 devices, but I believe they are a bit more  
expensive. SmartHome doesn't make a European version of the PowerLinc  
USB interface (which Indigo uses to talk to other devices), so you will  
need to get the CM12U interface, which is the European version of the  
CM11. The CM12U and CM11 are both serial devices, so you will have to  
purchase a Keyspan USB to serial adapter.

We have a hardware page that gives an overview of the different type of  
hardware available:

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/hardware.html

But, we only have links to a couple of dealers that sell the European  
devices on that page:

http://www.letsautomate.com/10075.cfm?

http://www.laser.com/?page=shop/ 
flypage&product_id=25&category_id=aeb02d0563508713ebb6f1355e2dac46&

Your best bet is to search around on the above sites to see what  
devices are available. We do have some UK customers that are  
successfully using Indigo and X10 devices, so if you have specific  
questions about using X10 with European systems (that I might not be  
able to answer) you can try posting on:

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/forum.html

Thanks for the interest in Indigo, and let me know if you have other  
questions or comments about the software."

Very helpful, guy, Matt at perceptiveautomation.com - who responded very quickly...

I still think it's a shame it's not easier to find X10 for Europe, but I will just have to struggle on!

Just so you can put Arden out of his misery, karavite, my flat cost $485,000!


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## drunkmac (May 3, 2004)

Yes, im from philly and I do hear that Fishtown real estate is hot right now. Everything is gonna be hot with the Real World: Philadelphia being shot as we speak...now THATS a fully automated home! I believe they have a mac there too. They're at the rennovated Seaman's church at 3rd & Arch if you wanna bug em. They hang at bars on Market St. too.


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## karavite (May 3, 2004)

drunkmac - you mean I won't have the first automate home in Philly! Darn it!  I'm not sure I would ever be up for hanging out with Real World people, but feel free to go bug them for me! I am probably older than you and I just can't get over that Pug guy they had in the first or second show. 

applewhore - yes, Matt is great. He used to develop for MacroMedia. Sounds like you have a great place - best of luck to you! Don't be scared of Philly, even though it is the former capitol of the US and where we undid all the hopes of King George and the Brits!  I just don't buy into this fearing of cities thing. I saw enough of that in Detroit and I got along just fine. You just have to be smart and cool about things and people. It's just part of life in U.S. cities, but what is funny is I have found the best neighbors and communities are in cities - Detroit, Chicago, NYC, San Francisco and so far, Philadelphia. NOT suburbia or rural America where, if you ask me, many people are much less friendly. 

Arden, sorry, I'm still not giving up my house price! How about this, a little less than applewhore's, but not much. 90 years old, 5 bedrooms, new roof, new kitchen, new bathroom, new electrical system (X10 ready baby!) and new windows.


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## karavite (Jun 5, 2004)

Okay, time to wake up the thread again. I have a real situation where it seems like my Mac would be so close to being up to the task, but is not. 

I am moving and despite fleeing CT with pure joy, there is one thing I like here - a few radio stations (WPKN and WNYC) that I listen to ALL the time, plus a few more from Detroit where I used to live too (WDET). Each station provides WMP and/or Real Audio access, but in my new house the computer will be upstairs and my stereo downstairs. Here is the deal - a simple request:

I want to listen to these stations from my stereo downstairs. 

Sure I can run a cable or even wireless transmitter from the computer, but that DOES NOT let me change stations without running back upstairs. If the format wars weren't such a problem, these stations could be iTunes stations, and that would offer some opportunities for remote control of the Mac (I think you can do this with blue tooth phones and/or maybe some universal remotes), but as it is, I can do nothing except buy a music server device (like this http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=482 - but there are others that include internet radio stations along with the HD recorder), or run upstairs. but what really is this thing other than a hard drive, processor and some software? What is my Mac other than a hard drive, processor and some software?

Thing is, these kind of music servers are becoming popular and people with money will buy them and people without money will want them. Since so many people right now/today upload their CDs to their computer AND/OR buy iTunes/mp3s AND/OR listen to web based radio stations, why not add a little hardware and software to let their Macs do a little more by serving up music through the house?

Maybe you all have ideas or even current solutions I might explore, but I am imagining a little iPodish Apple remote that can control basic things on my home Mac which would be integrated with my home audio/video system. I could call up iTunes songs, web based radio stations, iTunes, email and maybe a few other things (phone book, Sherlock...) right from my Mac to my TV, stereo, Home Theater... Suddenly, my Mac is a whole new and even more wonderful thing!

It would be fantastic and I think really show people what Apple can do to extend the digital hub idea. Microsoft and others have this same kind of thing out today. Apple could really impress people with their own version.

P.S. Getting an iBook or having a computer in the living room is not an option! There is this thing called WAF - wife acceptance factor - that has to be considered!  Get an iPod for portable music? Sure they are cool, but it doesn't take care of the radio aspect and is still "sneaker net."


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## chevy (Jun 5, 2004)

buy an iMac with a TV input box... it's not a computer is a MultiMedia Digital Center. You could pass the WAF test.


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## karavite (Jun 5, 2004)

Hmm, we have an iMac, but it is my wifes and goes up in her office! Still, it would not make it in terms of the decor and therefore fails the WAF!


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## chevy (Jun 5, 2004)

What if you dismount the iMac and rebuild it in a magnificent art furniture ?


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (Jun 5, 2004)

Sounds to me like one of these might be what you're looking for:

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome 

It's Internet services feature may cover off your radio requirements - everything else you talk about sounds easy with one of these!

I just wish apple would release one or something like this.


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## karavite (Jun 5, 2004)

Monkey Magic - this is PERFECT! Thank you, thank you, thank you! How did you find out about this? I think you saved me from exploring wireless PDA controllers and writing lots of Applescripts! It seems like eyehome "internet services" would take care of the radio listening via some simple bookmarks and bring up the radio audio (WMP or Real...) from the computer which, if eyehome can't route, I can run straight from the audio outs of my Mac! $250 seems reasonable doesn't it? Also, I am currently digitizing 150 old family super 8 mm movies and I could always view those with the eyehome too!

Chevy you are killing me!  I am imagining a painted or frilly iMac dressed in victorian furniture or something, but I cannot picture how to disguise the keyboard! Years ago I knew a guy who bought a Quadra 880AV and painted the case all these wild colors (it looked awful!). He then had trouble with it and Apple would not cover it under warranty!

Here are some issues with eyeTV, but I am not too interested in that, though I can see his points: http://www.idealog.us/2004/04/recommend_again.html


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (Jun 6, 2004)

I found it a while ago on the apple store, I've had my eye on it (as this is exactly what I need) for a while but am still havering over getting one as I'd really like it integrated with a PVR.

If you get one let me know what it's like and elgato might get another sale!


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## karavite (Jun 6, 2004)

PVR = Personal Video Recorder, right? Yea, I can see they still need to do a little work on that side - eyeTV. At first I'm not sure I needed that, but the more I think about it, what the heck! I'm also curious about a few things with it. For example, it reads from particular directories (like Movies), so I'm wondering if it will recognize/work with symbolic links to files/directories or even Aliases. Also, I'm hoping this thing is upgradable too - new features and things like that. It would be nice to see my incoming email from the old TV room too. You see, my whole problem is I spend WAY too much time with computers. I want to get away from them (in my office), but still have a few connections for things. Address book, Sherlock movies and yellow pages, email, weather... I wrote them with a few questions on these kinds of things and will let you know! 

I suppose there are other options (PDAs, cell phones...), but I like the idea of my computer being a "server" in this way. If it is tied to my TV, I guess that is okay, but the best would be some kind of little mobile pad device!


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (Jun 7, 2004)

My biggest problem with eyeTV is that it's gonna be using my processor cycles recording the TV show whilst I'm trying to work (why else would I want to record something - me have a life beyond my mac - unthinkable ).

**Warning - rambling stream of consciousness** 

I'd prefer it to do the recording - eyeHome could then aggregate the media content for me - From my Mac, from the PVR (itself). This is why I'd prefer apple to release somit like this - a totally new device. Then my computer can be for computing and the like and my media server can deal with my media requirements - all tightly integrated - iPhoto storing it's photos on the media server etc etc. 

As far as I can tell eyeHome supports symbolic links to other drives so that solves some of it.

I suppose basically what I'm describing is a low cost dumb device which just acts as a repository for the stuff. Then I'd like my dumb terminal (TV - tablet or the like), to display the stuff, with my mac doing the application leg work, running iTunes etc. But the encoding of new media to be done by the eyeHome type device (Even if I put the CD in my apple). Collaborative devices doing what they do best.

Not sure if that all makes sense - I'm still trying to get my head round it all. But in the meantime eyeHome looks like it's as close as I'll get.


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## karavite (Jun 7, 2004)

It does make sense!!! I think we are each thinking of the same kind of thing! Just waiting for someone to build it and it does seem that Apple would build something really neat.


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## macgeek (Jun 7, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> Why can't iPhoto let me view my photos on my TV?



What would be really cool and a great stepping stone toward connecting all your media and entertainment with your computer would be wireless monitor connections.  You could create a wireless adaptor for your TV or receiver and there ya go!

I think eventually, we won't have "TVs" but giant flat monitors.  The monitor will be used to view TV broadcasts and movies but will be controlled by a computer somewhere so that you would have access to files and network connections.  The control of these would probably be some sort of palm-top computer that would be used as the "remote".

The home will have technology completely integrated.  Everything will be connected and easy to control.  I think most of us see this coming.  I, for one, can't wait!


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## Randman (Jun 7, 2004)

There you go, AP Express for music needs.


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## karavite (Jun 7, 2004)

macgeek said:
			
		

> I think most of us see this coming.  I, for one, can't wait!



Great macgeek! - I was beginning to think I was an oddball gagdet freek! 

You know, in line with your TV evolution idea, it is in someways been happening for some time. I mean people rarely use the receiver in their TV  with cable boxes, DVDs, video games... Our "TVs" are essentailly monitors as it is. At the same time remotes for all the things hooked up to our TVs have been going nuts (there are so many cool though expensive universal remotes for everything - http://www.remotecentral.com/). The only thing missing here is no wires and the computer!


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## karavite (Jun 13, 2004)

Well well well - how about AirPort Express with AirTunes! http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/

It still doesn't offer remote control of iTunes from anywhere but your Mac, but could this be a sign that Apple is moving toward something that we are all drueling for here on this thread!?! I mean, it LOOKS like a little X10 device! 

P.S. This may be old and/or obvious news, but many radio stations that offer streams as mp3s can be played on iTunes and/or added as a play list item. As long as it has a .pls file format, you are all set. I think this is the way to go vs. Real, WMP and everything else out there.


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## karavite (Oct 28, 2004)

The thread that never dies...

Anyone read about Broadband over Power Lines (BPL)? See this article in the NY Times (warning you need to subscribe, but its free): http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/technology/circuits/28howw.html

It sounds pretty cool!

Though they aren't talking about it specifically, I wonder: if we can access the network via electrical outlets, then why couldn't anything plugged into those same outlets access the network and anything else on the network? E.g. not just our computers, but all our other gadgets? Seems like this could be a big benefit to home automation. Like taking X-10 to a whole new level.


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## Oscar Castillo (Oct 28, 2004)

I'll be happy if they keep improving the PowerMac line at regular intervals.  Apple could make some money in the consumer electronics market as the iPod shows, but as long as that doesn't take away from innovation in the computer line then ok.  Maybe Apple could release an HTPC that doesn't look like a computer sitting next to your TV like everyone else has.


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 28, 2004)

karavite said:
			
		

> Anyone read about Broadband over Power Lines (BPL)?



I remember in my first year at university, which would have been 6 or 7 years ago now, I had to give a presentation on the future of the internet.  I remember talking about a power company in the UK, Norweb rings a bell, that were testing or trialling this.

I've not really heard anything about it since then.


I guess in theory any appliance pluged into the mains could access the network, however I think to do so each appliance would need it's own built in BPL modem, which could be costly, and time consuming to configure.

I think you can already get some devices that allow you to network computers over your existing mains circuit.  If other devices had built in network adapters they could connect to this network anyway, and then via your router to the internet (much safer than direct connection as then you can place them behind a firewall to stop people hacking into your toaster and burning your house down).


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## karavite (Oct 29, 2004)

Hi Inoelstorr. Sounds like you had a great education over there!  Yes, currently you can use X-10 devices that use the existing house electrical system as a network and my house is full of these little guys. See: http://www.smarthome.com/

X-10 has been around for years and years and they are surprisingly adaptable despite having a few basic commands and channels. I really don't understand how and why, but it seems that if the homes electrical grid was also providing the network connection, the potential for expanding on this for home automation seems to be there. You are 100% right - equipping all our appliances with some kind of adapter would be expensive and impractical, but newer and more powerful "network aware" X-10 type devices could be built on this technology too - maybe?

Relating any of this to Apple, well, if new standards for this type of thing were adopted, Apple could really rock in creating fabulous easy to use and clever software and hardware to let us all expand our access to music, images, video and anything else. I realize they have enough to worry about, but they seem to be leaning in a similar high level distributed media direction - iPods with images, Airport Express... and distributing media is a big part of home automation.


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 29, 2004)

Yeah, sorry I know about X10, what I was talking about is something that lets you network computers through you mains circuit.

From what I understand, X10 is all about switching apliances on and off, the thing I'm talking about allows you to network computers together over your mains circuit.


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## karavite (Oct 29, 2004)

Right - I guess what I am talking about is a merged set of what we are both talking about - allowing my computers and network to access and control appliances and AV equipment throughout the house!


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## mr. k (Oct 30, 2004)

This is probably one of the coolest threads here, and I've always loved thinking about things like this.  What I just can't stop thinking about though is a completely networked lighting system, a sort of mess of wireless and wired network with a central server and several nodes of actual lights.  The lights would each use some low power wireless (like bluetooth) to interface with a controller (think cellphone) which could also call the server (does bluetooth do hopping like 802.11? that could be really cool...).

So your phone could have software which could sense which lights are nearby via bluetooth, give you the option to turn them on/off, and also could turn lights on say up the stairs in the hall so you didn't trip over your bike as you were stumbling up to bed...

And what would limit this to your lights?  You could wake up and have a program set to turn the lights on, start the shower, start the tea water, etc - And I bet you could do this with x10 right now - but it would be so much cooler if it was wireless...


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 31, 2004)

mr. k said:
			
		

> And I bet you could do this with x10 right now - but it would be so much cooler if it was wireless...



Why would it be better if it was wireless?

Wireless is good when it saves having _extra_ wires, but all these electrical things are already wired.  The point of X10 is that it takes advantage of these extra wires.

A wireless interface into this network would be good, but you could just have a Computer with wireless (bluetooth or WiFi) that was connected to the network, and you could control everything via a wireless connection to that.

Every devices on the network having a wireless interface just seems pointless, as they are already wired.


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## mr. k (Oct 31, 2004)

The thing about wireless to me is that devices could tell whether or not they were nearby.  I'm sure you could use power lines to conduct the brunt of communications, and just a little rfid tag or something to communicate with a handset you carry around with you, and you just say "lights" or something and the lights of the room you are in turn on.  That would be cool.  Or you stand nearby the stove and say "back-left-burner on medium," to boil up some water.  Plus wireless is just really cool...


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## karavite (Nov 1, 2004)

Howdy Mr K! In a way, I am kind of sort of "living the dream" you talked about. I have an X-10 system in the house and a bluetooth cell phone. I am using Indigo on my Mac to run my X-10 system (though many of my light and appliance modules can do their own basic on/off things without the Mac or Indigo running). Indigo also has bluetooth capabilities and I have played with that. For example, I can set Indigo to set a variable on whether I am home or not based on its picking up my phone (when it is on) since my Mac can detect my cell phone within about 40-50 feet. From this I can run other Indigo actions based on that status of that "At home" variable. For example, if "at home" = true, run action "recognize motion detector A1 and let it turn on light A2, but only if it is after sunset (Indigo checks the web for each days sunrise and sunset times). 

Now for the bad news - it really isn't practical. Having to run my Mac 24/7 let alone my cell phone is just not something I (let alone my wife) I always do. Still, all the little pieces are there, just not put together in a way that makes it all practical.

lnoelstorr has a very good point though. X-10 often seems to people to be crude or simple, but it really is just plain elegant. Lights or appliances that can be plugged in don't need to be smart or aware - X-10 takes care of all that.

Here is a link to Indigo - http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/

You can download a trial/demo and even if you don't have a single X-10 device, you can play with it to see how you could program your home.

P.S. The one thing I do have fun with is using my bluetooth phone to start iTunes. I can use it to browse playlists including playlists with online news oriented radio stations. My computer is upstairs, but it runs an audio line to my stereo downstairs. So, if I want to listen to the news downstairs, I can do it remotely.


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## chevy (Nov 28, 2004)

Good news ! It looks like Apple hired a Home Automation expert !

http://www.macitynet.it/english/aA19767/index.shtml


> Peter Mehring, as of today chief of Engineering at Echelon, specialized in networking, will probably take the place of Tim Bucher, who has left his role as the chief of Macintosh hardware.


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## karavite (Dec 1, 2004)

Hi Chevy - I don't know much about this person or Umax beyond the old Mac clones and what the article says. Can you please tell me how is he a home automation expert? Also, there is a post on a Apple media server that seems highly related to all these discussions!


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## karavite (Jan 11, 2005)

Well, here is evidence on why MS cannot lead in home automation and Apple (or anyone) could simply kick their arse with a reliable and easy to use applications/hardware... - check out this video from the consumer electronics show where Bill Gates himself is demoing the MS Media Center and it simply hoses in front of a live audience with Connan Obrian there to really yuck it up while Bill is fuming quietly!!! http://news.com.com/1606-2-5517693.html (Bloopers dog Gates at CES)

What is this - about the 10th time Bill Gates has had a "technical issue" during a demo? You gotta love it!!!


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## Arden (Jan 11, 2005)

Someone just doesn't get it...


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2005)

Amen Arden!  Isn't it nice to see Bill himself go through the agony and embarrassment so many of his customers go through every single day!!! And you know they spent a fortune and had a small army there to make sure it all worked! Gees...

Any way, that's all we need - Miscrosoft reliability and ease of use not just in our computers, but in our home media devices. If MS takes over I can look forward to calls from my dad on how to turn on his TV!!!


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## karavite (Jan 12, 2005)

Also - the Mini might have a lot of potential as a little home media machine. For example, I use Indigo to control a lot of my X10 devices, but Indigo needs to be running. My G4 DP is a bit of a power hog (trust me, I see it on my bills) so I would rather not have it on 24/7. A little dedicated Mac Mini could run my X10 software as well as be a great little iTunes "server." Now we just need a little better music and video "server" software and hardware out there - from Apple and others. EyeTV is just not it - not yet!

HP has its own media server: http://news.com.com/1606-2-5519860.html
Tivo, pics, music... Man, can't apple do this better? Again, a Mac Mini with some added sw might do it!


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## karavite (May 13, 2005)

The thread that won't die... Why, because the world is moving ahead on home media and integration while Apple's digital hub strategy seems (IMO) incomplete and not evolving. Latest? Just read a NYT article about the new X Box which will double duty as a media server. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/13/technology/13xbox.html

The thing has a ton of processing power (3 IBM processors) - " the console houses three 3.2-gigahertz I.B.M. microprocessors that could qualify it as the most powerful home computer on the market." 

How about this quote:
"But part of the challenge of this next generation is how do we cultivate a broader mass audience."

Part of that strategy, he said, includes designing Xbox 360 to perform a range of nongaming functions suited to the living room, like streaming digital music and pictures, or videoconferencing. "

If you want to write off Microsoft for any reason, realize the Playstation 3 is reported to be even more powerful. I'm not saying Apple should be into game consoles, but Macs need to be a bigger part of a total digital hub gig. It is going to happen with or without Apple.


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## applewhore (May 14, 2005)

It is frustrating, isn't it?!  

I do remember reading speculation that there might be a new video Airport Express - allowing the Mac Mini to stream movies as well as music...

We shall see!


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## Reality (May 14, 2005)

Well, with iTunes now playing .mov movies, anything seesm to be a little more possible.


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## karavite (May 19, 2005)

You guys are both right. Apple certainly must be thinking about this and planning? No? I'm hoping they come up with something really slick. You know, a new approach that nobody else thought of. Sure, the new XBox and PS3 will do similar things, but will it be easy and/or elegant to use? I think Airport Express was just a little taste of what they have in the works for media device integration. I just have a problem with delayed gratification and would like to see something soon!


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## karavite (Jan 10, 2007)

I woke up this old thread because Apple really did it - Apple TV is COOL! Okay, so right now iTunes may not have a lot of TV shows, movies or be super price competitive, but it is opening a world where I can use my computer to drive my TV, and NOT a box with a horrendous UI from Comcast (at over $125 a month including cable modem). It also seems to have the potential to serve up music as well as video - all over the house. This is just what my doctor ordered! Give it time people. Apple having content is, I think, the way to go. They have more control this way and can control the evolution of how this advances. Again, I'll take Apple over greedy Comcast any day!


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## dave17lax (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow, nice bump. 

I've got a 360 and love the thing. I rarely use it for media stuff, but I know some people who do. Problem is that you have to convert stuff to wmv (and it's not too obvious how to use the connectivity software- it's buggy).

The 360 itself has a killer interface, it's really nice esp coming from Microsoft. 

now- to your point about Apple TV. I agree, I'm excited to see something like this come along. It's not quite ready (for me at least), but it reminds me of a few years ago when I was wowing people at parties, plugging my ipod into random stereos, and later, setting up streaming music around my apt. Won't be long for the next step, and I'm glad Apple's bringing this stuff to market.


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