# Can Apple Give a Straight Answer?



## Amie (Jul 19, 2005)

OK, I know this topic has been beaten to heck and overdone. BUT ... believe me, I've done extensive research and I STILL cannot find a straight answer.

The question (and please refrain from throwing large objects at me):  Which is better for a new iBook G4--sleep or shut down? I know everyone has their own preference, but does anyone know what APPLE recommends? Every time I research it on Apple/Mac Web sites or ask any employee at the Apple store, I can't get a straight answer!

This iBook G4 is my first Mac laptop, and I want to take good care of it and do what's best to prolong its life, etc.

Please ... if there IS an answer out there, let me have it!


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## Canada-Man (Jul 19, 2005)

I remember reading on Apple's website that my computer (iMac G4) was built to use Sleep instead of Shut Down if you use it regularly. I guess it is the same thing for the iBook. I don't think shutting your iBook down everyday will damage it but there is a lot of time wasted waiting for it to boot every day.


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## bobw (Jul 19, 2005)

If you use it daily, SLEEP


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jul 19, 2005)

Apple recommends shutting your computer completely down if not in use for an extended period of time -- around 6 to 8 hours.

Otherwise, let it sleep.

Can't remember where I read it or where I heard it, but I'm not gonna reiterate information that I do not believe to be true.  Sorry, can't provide a link directly to an Apple document that specifies these times, but they're safe to go off of.

My desktop is only shut down during times of potential brown/blackouts, and sleeps for the rest of the time when not in use... mind you, I don't have deep sleep support either, so my fans spin constantly.  Only the monitor turns off and the hard drives spin down in sleep mode -- been this way since 1999 and never had a single hardware problem (with the exception of one dead hard drive, but that's expected and has nothing to do with sleep).


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## fryke (Jul 19, 2005)

If you let it sleep for more than five days or so without the power connected, you'll find it's shutdown (battery empty). But if that case isn't likely, sleep is the best thing since the original "cool-aid".


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## mindbend (Jul 19, 2005)

Sleep.

I have never shut down my iBook in over a year. (Restarted a few times for software updates, of course.)

There is no particular reason to shut down your laptop (or desktop for that matter) other than maintenance or avoiding lightning and that sort of thing.

Admittedly, this is my own position. I do not know Apple's official position.

We've got seven Macs here and NEVER shut any of them down. If somebody does recommend a full shut down, I'd like to know specifically why. I'm not convinced there's really any benefit.

There's nothing like pulling your laptop out of the case at a client meeting, lifting the lid and immediately being able to get to work. I think it's actually my favorite feature of the iBooks/Powerbooks.


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## Decado (Jul 19, 2005)

my old teacher at media-school used to say that it was a biger strain on the harddrive booting up and shutting down than letting it constantly run. but i don't know if he knew what he was talking about.
i never shut down unless i plan to leave it for a week (so i will not have to plug it in the first thing i do when i get back). this way as much information as possible is stored in the RAM and the computer wont have to access the harddrive as often, and that is a good thing (tm).


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## Captain Code (Jul 19, 2005)

If you sleep then your hard drive still spins down so there's probably not any more wear besides the fact that it doesn't have to load the OS if it's slept


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## tumbleguts (Jul 19, 2005)

The only real advantage of turning your Apple computer off (as opposed to sleep) is that the Memory usage is returned to default. This can be a good thing - as having applications open for a long time slowly consume the amount of memory available. And until that apllication is quit, that memory is locked and not available for other uses. Although, bare in mind, you can also return the memory usage by simply loging out - and then back in again.


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## sirstaunch (Jul 19, 2005)

Pg 10 of my emac User Guide

Put Your eMac to Sleep
If you will be away from your eMac for less than a few days, put the computer to sleep..... blah blah (mainly instructions on how to put it to sleep)

Shut Down Your eMac
If you will not use your eMac for more than a few days, shut it down.... blah blah (mainly instructions on how to shut it down)

Thuss, reccomendation from Apple


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## powermac (Jul 20, 2005)

I think the consensus is to not shut down, unless your usage is over a few days. My Macs are never shut down, even my PB when I bring it from home to work. A restart is always a good idea ever so often. For windows people they are used to shutting down and restarting, while the Mac is best to leave running.


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## fryke (Jul 20, 2005)

Even with Mac OS 9 and earlier, where restarts were necessary much more often, I always kept my PowerBooks and iBooks in a sleep state rather than shut them down. This *never* led to early retirement for any of the machines.


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## Amie (Jul 20, 2005)

Thanks so much for all the replies, folks! It's nice to know what long-time Mac users have been doing. However, I *think* I found a definite answer. I know everyone has his/her own personal preference, but remember my original question was what not everyone else recommends but what *Apple* recommends (but I'm still very grateful to all of you who shared their thoughts with me on this!). Anyway, below is something that is copied and pasted straight from the Apple "iBook G4 Getting Started" manual:

Shutting Down Your iBook G4:
If you arent going to use your iBook G4 for a day or two, shut it down. 

So, there's my answer: If I'm going to use my laptop throughout the day and know that I'm going to use it again the following day, I will sleep it. If I know that I'm going to bed and not going to use it at all the next day (or more), I will shut it down.


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## Amie (Jul 20, 2005)

sirstaunch said:
			
		

> Pg 10 of my emac User Guide
> 
> Put Your eMac to Sleep
> If you will be away from your eMac for less than a few days, put the computer to sleep..... blah blah (mainly instructions on how to put it to sleep)
> ...



Yep, exactly! Just found that out. Same thing from Apple in the iBook G4 User Guide (see previous post). I have an answer from Apple. Finally! Whoo + hoo.

(And for those of you who are wanting to hit me 'cause I didn't check my User Guide *before* I asked this question, I have a good reason for doing that:  I ... misplaced my User Guide and then decided to see if I could find the guide online--which I did!--but that was *after* I'd already asked the question.)


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## fryke (Jul 20, 2005)

We certainly don't mind. Other users' experience often can shed more light on certain subjects than what Apple's manuals say (and they often don't say much, anyway...). And if later a user has the same problem/question, he'll find the thread here on macosx.com, so that's good.

Btw.: If you let the iBook be connected to the power outlet, there's no need to shut it down, even if it's for two days or more.
I very much enjoy being able to keep the things I'm working on open at all times. If I had to boot the computer at the beginning of a new work day, I'd have to first think of what I was doing last, whereas my PowerBook _shows_ me, because the files are still open. That's a real timesaver, sometimes.


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## Amie (Jul 20, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> We certainly don't mind. Other users' experience often can shed more light on certain subjects than what Apple's manuals say (and they often don't say much, anyway...). And if later a user has the same problem/question, he'll find the thread here on macosx.com, so that's good.
> 
> Btw.: If you let the iBook be connected to the power outlet, there's no need to shut it down, even if it's for two days or more.
> I very much enjoy being able to keep the things I'm working on open at all times. If I had to boot the computer at the beginning of a new work day, I'd have to first think of what I was doing last, whereas my PowerBook _shows_ me, because the files are still open. That's a real timesaver, sometimes.



That's very true. However, when I'm finished working on my iBook, regardless of whether I choose shut down or sleep, I close all applications. Don't ask me why. I think it probably has something to do with the fact that I'm very anal about my computer.   I don't like to leave any files or applications open, etc.; and I'm also a maintenance freak (I probably do more than what's necessary to maintain a healthy Mac).

Ah well ... could be worse. I could still be a PC user.


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## markceltic (Jul 20, 2005)

Amie said:
			
		

> That's very true. However, when I'm finished working on my iBook, regardless of whether I choose shut down or sleep, I close all applications. Don't ask me why. I think it probably has something to do with the fact that I'm very anal about my computer.   I don't like to leave any files or applications open, etc.; and I'm also a maintenance freak (I probably do more than what's necessary to maintain a healthy Mac).
> 
> Ah well ... could be worse. I could still be a PC user.


Hey I do that to! We're glad you're not a PC user anymore ::love::.


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## sirstaunch (Jul 20, 2005)

That'll be habit, closing files when you don't want them. You just don't want to see them in the background so ya just automatically quit or close the document without thinking.

My Mother (72yr old) on her MacMini said it was taking a little time to shutdown eachday and I said, just put it to sleep. Now she is rapt, just nudge that mouse and everything lights up and she can continue playing Solitaire Til Dawn (expensive card deck LOL) and when she gets experimental goes into other apps etc

Like modern TV's, they go to standby rather then a complete switch off, it's so it's ready for the remote control to command it and lights up the screen quicker too.

How much power would sleep mode be burning? Couldn't imagine to much¿¿?


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## Cheryl (Jul 20, 2005)

My machine at home is on 24/7 (except for severe storms and power outages - I have a battery UPS so I have the time to save what I am working on and shutting down)

My machine at work is shut down every evening. This is because we never know when a power outage will occur while gone. Previously, we have had some serious damage to machines when the power went back up.


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## MrNivit1 (Jul 20, 2005)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> If you sleep then your hard drive still spins down so there's probably not any more wear besides the fact that it doesn't have to load the OS if it's slept




This is why I would like to see a hibernation option (as in Windows, its a shame OS X does not have this option yet).  Store what is in RAM on the harddrive (OS and all programs) and then load it up in that exact state (without having to load all of the OS again, just the disk stored RAM state) when you turn the computer on again.  Would this save time/disk usage?  Is it efficient?


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## ex2bot (Jul 21, 2005)

I have a well-used iBook from 2001 that still works fine. It has been on for much of the last four years. 

Previously, i had a cheap Compaq purchased in 98 or 99. I sold it to a friend in 2002. Works great, last time I checked. After I disinfected it. When I had it, I almost never turned it off.

I don't think sleep is going to reduce a computer's lifespan. YMMV.

Doug


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## fryke (Jul 21, 2005)

While I wouldn't mind Apple adding a feature like hibernation, I guess I wouldn't use it. It's okay for desktops, but unnecessary for notebooks.


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## Decado (Jul 21, 2005)

i am no hibernation-expert (all i know is from a longhorn-thread i recently visited on another forum), i doubt there would be any real benefit with hibernation. as i understood it (and as i said, i might be totally wrong) you unload the ram to the harddrive and shut down everything. next time it copies this information back into the ram... well, that is the weird part. wouldnt it take a lot more time copying 2 gigabyte (which isnt _that_ unusual nowdays) than simply start the computer the old fashioned way (rumors said it took 10 seconds on the Macosx intel developer machines)? so it is no time saver. i can only see one use for it and that is portabel recording studios that have a lot of complicated stuff attached and special applications that need to be started in a special order and such... and i really doubt that kind of equipment would work properly with hibernation.


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## Decado (Jul 21, 2005)

sirstaunch said:
			
		

> How much power would sleep mode be burning? Couldn't imagine to much¿¿?



my powerbook loses about 4 percent of its power in 9 hours of sleepmode. lets do some math! (i'm terrible at math, so it will probably be all wrong).


this would be a lot easier if they redid the time according to the decimal-system.

if it loses 100 percent in 4 hours (14400 seconds) when awake (give or take half an hour). then it loses about 1 percent every 144 second.

but when asleep it loses 4 percent in 9 hours (32400 seconds), or 1 percent in every 8100 second.

so it would take 810000 seconds (225 hours) to lose 100 percent.

so it use about 56 times less current during sleep. apply this number to your computers energy drain.

am i right? anyone with Mad Math Skillz?


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 21, 2005)

Amie said:
			
		

> That's very true. However, when I'm finished working on my iBook, regardless of whether I choose shut down or sleep, I close all applications.


 
this is a habit i bought over from my PC experiences too.  windows, in the way it looks, subconciously tells you to shuit programs down. otherwise you'll get a taskbar full up so fast it hurts.  OSX just has a tiny little triangle under each app. it's unobtrusive - it _wants_ you to keep 10 apps open. because you can, without slowing the computer down. (within reason. iphoto and photoshop don't like being open at the same time if i want to do something intensive, IME).

Leave your apps open people.  it's so much quicker than letting it load up everytime you want it. it is just a bad windows habit....


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## bbloke (Jul 21, 2005)

Quick question though... If your Mac goes to sleep, do scheduled tasks (E-Mail reminders, crontabs, etc.) still work? I had the impression they would not. Also, if your machine was put to sleep, I'd presume it was not possible to get remote access to it (for instance, if you needed to transfer files between home and the office).

...or is sleep "smarter" than I give it credit?


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## fryke (Jul 21, 2005)

No, it's not. But neither is shutting down the machine.


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## sirstaunch (Jul 21, 2005)

Decado said:
			
		

> my powerbook loses about 4 percent of its power in 9 hours of sleepmode. lets do some math! (i'm terrible at math, so it will probably be all wrong).
> 
> 
> this would be a lot easier if they redid the time according to the decimal-system.
> ...



What was that bit after listen closely?

LOL

It's beyond me, so really, sleep mode uses hardly any power...


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## mindbend (Jul 21, 2005)

(Take this with a grain of salt)

I remember reading a few years ago that sleep mode for monitor and CPU consumes less then $15 per year in energy. It may even be less than that now with better technology (course energy rates rise, so maybe not).


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## Amie (Jul 21, 2005)

Lt Major Burns said:
			
		

> this is a habit i bought over from my PC experiences too.  windows, in the way it looks, subconciously tells you to shuit programs down. otherwise you'll get a taskbar full up so fast it hurts.  OSX just has a tiny little triangle under each app. it's unobtrusive - it _wants_ you to keep 10 apps open. because you can, without slowing the computer down. (within reason. iphoto and photoshop don't like being open at the same time if i want to do something intensive, IME).
> 
> Leave your apps open people.  it's so much quicker than letting it load up everytime you want it. it is just a bad windows habit....



*gasp!*

Leave the applications open ... *twitch*... even when you're finished for the night??? Oh, no ... I ... *twitch* ... don't think ... I could do that. *twitch*

See what Windows has DONE to me?!?!


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## Amie (Jul 21, 2005)

bbloke said:
			
		

> Quick question though... If your Mac goes to sleep, do scheduled tasks (E-Mail reminders, crontabs, etc.) still work? I had the impression they would not. Also, if your machine was put to sleep, I'd presume it was not possible to get remote access to it (for instance, if you needed to transfer files between home and the office).
> 
> ...or is sleep "smarter" than I give it credit?



No, none of the cron scripts run if the computer is in sleep mode.


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## Amie (Jul 21, 2005)

MrNivit1 said:
			
		

> This is why I would like to see a hibernation option (as in Windows, its a shame OS X does not have this option yet).  Store what is in RAM on the harddrive (OS and all programs) and then load it up in that exact state (without having to load all of the OS again, just the disk stored RAM state) when you turn the computer on again.  Would this save time/disk usage?  Is it efficient?



Just one problem:  Hibernate doesn't work; Sleep does.  Windows' Hibernate mode is nothing like Mac's Sleep mode. Sleep *works*. Hibernate is crap and doesn't even work half the time.


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## ged3000 (Jul 21, 2005)

I hate to advocate turning off your mac, rather than sleeping it, but it does use less power when asleep. Yes, I know its only a couple of watts (I think i read somewhere that a FlatScreen iMac uses ~5W when asleep, ~3 when 'off'), but over the course of the year, it all adds up. Why should this bother you? I dunno, most likely it doesnt. But, if as everyone leaves their computers on sleep, instead of 'off', or even all-the-way-off (ie plug & batteries removed) then the amount of energy used up is far greater...

And before I get eaten, I agree with most of the plus sides to sleeping over shutting down, and tend to leave my powerbook alseep unless im gonna not be using it for more than a couple of days (so its on/asleep most of the time). Im just pointing out an argument, possibly the biggest argument, for shutting down your computer. And turning your telly off at the mains. And all the rest of it, for every appliance you have that goes into standbye instead of all-the-way-off....

Yeesh, i sound like a parent - "Turn off the light when you leave a room!"

Other thing - the guy I live next to at uni goes absolutely nuts when I show him my uptime and how many apps/windows ive got open - his advice is that you should turn your computer all-the-way-off and leave it there for at least 24 hours at least once a week, to give the processor a chance to cool down to room temperature and have a rest. He seems to think that not doing so can shorten the life of a processor. BUT, ive seen nothing to back this up, and to the best of my knowledge, its not happened to any computer Ive ever seen. He uses windows/intel anyway, so isnt used to the joys of MacOSX, though methinks he plans to get a powerbook....

That sure was quite a ramble... Please dont eat me too much!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jul 21, 2005)

ged3000 said:
			
		

> Other thing - the guy I live next to at uni goes absolutely nuts when I show him my uptime and how many apps/windows ive got open - his advice is that you should turn your computer all-the-way-off and leave it there for at least 24 hours at least once a week, to give the processor a chance to cool down to room temperature and have a rest. He seems to think that not doing so can shorten the life of a processor. BUT, ive seen nothing to back this up, and to the best of my knowledge, its not happened to any computer Ive ever seen. He uses windows/intel anyway, so isnt used to the joys of MacOSX, though methinks he plans to get a powerbook....



Heh... theoretically, using the processor less amounts to longer processor life, but the likelihood of the processor going bad in it's lifetime when left completely on all the time is very, very slim.  He's extending the life of something that's going to outlive him or his needs anyway, so isn't that kind of pointless?

Using anything less will make whatever it is last longer, but unless he's planning on his computer being handed down for several generations, the lifespan of the processor will be measured by it's useful life (not it's ability to operate correctly), which is usually at lot longer than the operational life in the first place.

Plus, his processor is only going to outlast one left on 24/7 by the amount of time he leaves it off.  Running a processor for one, long period of time puts equal amount of wear on the processor as giving the processor a few breaks every now and then.  It all depends on powered-on hours -- for example, if a processor was rated for 50,000 hours of life, then using all 50,000 in one swell foop or using 10,000 then resting then using another 10,000 and resting and so on until you reached 50,000 is the same thing.


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## pds (Jul 22, 2005)

I just saw a piece on BBC about the growth of energy consumption. It mentioned that sleep mode - in all kinds of appliances, microwaves, televisions, computers, dsl modems/switches, timed coffeepots and a hundred others - totals around 10% of electricity demand. Computers are only a small part of that - if you look around the house at night you'll see all kinds of red and orange lights, all making up 10% of your electricity bill. 

Hmm my bill is $20 a month (one of Egypt's redeeming graces) so $2 a month for stand-by...


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## Amie (Jul 22, 2005)

pds said:
			
		

> I just saw a piece on BBC about the growth of energy consumption. It mentioned that sleep mode - in all kinds of appliances, microwaves, televisions, computers, dsl modems/switches, timed coffeepots and a hundred others - totals around 10% of electricity demand. Computers are only a small part of that - if you look around the house at night you'll see all kinds of red and orange lights, all making up 10% of your electricity bill.
> 
> Hmm my bill is $20 a month (one of Egypt's redeeming graces) so $2 a month for stand-by...



Only $20 a month? Wow. I'm moving to Egypt! Why so cheap?


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## Amie (Jul 22, 2005)

Oh, and just for the record:  I think I'll just follow what Apple recommends--sleep when using frequently; shut down when not using for a day or two. Yes, I know there are people who *never* shut their laptops down, and there are tons of theories on this. But just to play it safely I'll go with what the company suggests. And using sleep most of the time and shutting down only when not in use for a couple days ... well, it just make sense.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing all your thoughts with me on this, everyone!


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## iPenguin (Jul 23, 2005)

Here's another question:
I almost never shut-down _or_ sleep my powerbook (the screen goes to sleep after 30 minutes, and the "spin hard-drive down when possible" checkbox is checked, but I never really set it to sleep completely), is that alright? Or should I really be sleeping it or shutting it down?


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## Amie (Jul 24, 2005)

iPenguin said:
			
		

> Here's another question:
> I almost never shut-down _or_ sleep my powerbook (the screen goes to sleep after 30 minutes, and the "spin hard-drive down when possible" checkbox is checked, but I never really set it to sleep completely), is that alright? Or should I really be sleeping it or shutting it down?



That's fine. Even though you're not actually sleeping it yourself (i.e., closing the lid), you've set your preferences to sleep it after 30 minutes of non-use and you've set your hard drive to spin down as well, so that's fine. It's basically the same thing, only the is open instead of closed. No big deal.


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## iPenguin (Jul 24, 2005)

The _display_ goes to sleep after thirty minutes, but the the computer itself is set to "never" sleep. Or does that not make any difference, with the "spin hard-drive down" option checked?


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## Amie (Jul 24, 2005)

iPenguin said:
			
		

> The _display_ goes to sleep after thirty minutes, but the the computer itself is set to "never" sleep. Or does that not make any difference, with the "spin hard-drive down" option checked?



I believe (and, anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as your display is set to sleep as well as your hard drive spinning down, that would pretty much take care of the computer sleeping. With the hard drive set to spin down and the display set to sleep, that would mean that your computer would be sleeping and no applications would be actively running nor would your screen be lit up in any way, and everything would be in sleep mode, etc.


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## sirstaunch (Jul 24, 2005)

I just looked at the Preferences and it says 'Spin Down Harddisk if Possible', so I'm guessing if you have a download active overnight, converting files or anything, the Harddisk won't spin down, so it wouldn't be as energy saving as Sleep


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## ex2bot (Jul 24, 2005)

A full sleep saves energy. On my Power Mac G5, (some or all of) the fans turn off, increasing their lifespan.

I think with a laptop it's critical to turn off the display backlight when you're not using it. But there's definitely a difference between spinning down the hard drive and shutting off the display--and actually putting the machine to sleep.

Doug


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## fryke (Jul 25, 2005)

Display and harddrive sleeping is not the same as the sleep function. While from the outside, the computer might seem 'asleep', RAM and processor are still 'alive', so is the network. And as rightly put above, if you're downloading anything or if somebody connects to your computer to get something (if you have any sharing enabled, for example), the harddrive will spin up in order to give the requested data... The computer, thus, is _not_ sleeping, it's just saving power by shutting down non-vital systems.


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## Decado (Jul 25, 2005)

neither mine nor my girlfriends laptop (powerbook and ibook) will go to sleep since we installed tiger. it goes to sleep if i tell it to directly, but it doesnt follow the sleep timer in energy preferences.

and i am not sure if tiger is to blame. it could also be the new version of iScroll that i installed at the same time.


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## iPenguin (Jul 25, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Display and harddrive sleeping is not the same as the sleep function. While from the outside, the computer might seem 'asleep', RAM and processor are still 'alive', so is the network. And as rightly put above, if you're downloading anything or if somebody connects to your computer to get something (if you have any sharing enabled, for example), the harddrive will spin up in order to give the requested data... The computer, thus, is _not_ sleeping, it's just saving power by shutting down non-vital systems.



So, my original question stills stands: Is it alright if I leave my powerbook like this all the time? Or should I put it to sleep (or shut it down) sometimes, just to be safe?


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## ex2bot (Jul 25, 2005)

iPenguin, I don't know if there's an easy answer to that. I'd say it's okay. Your machine will last years and years. If you put it to sleep when you're not using it, it may last even a few more years.

Fryke: Are you sure RAM shuts off during sleep? How could it be shut off and still retain its contents?

Doug


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## MDLarson (Jul 25, 2005)

You guys worry too much.  Just use it however best it suits YOUR needs.

As for the state where the hard drives are spun down and the display is off, think of that mode as a person sitting still and closing your eyes for a minute.


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## fryke (Jul 26, 2005)

dktrickey: I said if it doesn't sleep, RAM and processor are still active, i.e. they do things and change. Didn't mean that RAM is off in sleep mode, although I didn't put it clearly... In sleep mode, RAM is preserved, i.e. there's still a little power going to that area... (That's why sleep mode doesn't work for more than a few days.)


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## Amie (Jul 26, 2005)

Oh, just use the darn Sleep feature! LOL

Seriously, Apple went to painstaking efforts (which are quite lauded, and rightly so) to implement the Sleep feature in their computers. This is especially nice if you have a laptop. It's quick, easy, convenient and boosts computer lifetime. Use it! Weather you use your laptop as a portable computer or as a desktop computer, when you're finished using it, simply close the lid and it WILL go to sleep (unless there's something wrong with it). 

Hint: To further optimize lifetime, if you're not using the power adapter, go into your Energy Preferences and set it for Battery Power and Longest Battery Life. This will automatically sleep your computer AND spin down the hard drive (just check the box) and sleep the display after one minute of non-use and sleep the computer after 10 minutes of non-use. Simple solution! Do this, then you'll be all set, and it won't matter if you close the lid or not!


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## sirstaunch (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm getting sleepy LOL

A friend bought a secondhand laptop (don't remember model) he put it to sleep and it never woke up, but that was because of some other hardware issue that opertes the screen. Me thinks it may of been dropped a few times, who knows, but I know I'd want a long sleep if I'm dropped a lot too


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## fryke (Jul 27, 2005)

Well, if you're dropped from a high enough place, you'll get the endless sleep.


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## Amie (Jul 27, 2005)

sirstaunch said:
			
		

> I'm getting sleepy LOL
> 
> A friend bought a secondhand laptop (don't remember model) he put it to sleep and it never woke up, but that was because of some other hardware issue that opertes the screen. Me thinks it may of been dropped a few times, who knows, but I know I'd want a long sleep if I'm dropped a lot too



LOL


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## georgelien (Jul 30, 2005)

Amie said:
			
		

> OK, I know this topic has been beaten to heck and overdone. BUT ... believe me, I've done extensive research and I STILL cannot find a straight answer.
> 
> The question (and please refrain from throwing large objects at me):  Which is better for a new iBook G4--sleep or shut down? I know everyone has their own preference, but does anyone know what APPLE recommends? Every time I research it on Apple/Mac Web sites or ask any employee at the Apple store, I can't get a straight answer!
> 
> ...




Ever since the invention of OS X, I had almost never shut down or restart my Macs, both desktops and laptops.

Sleep naturally becomes the primary option.

Long live OS X!


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## mambopanda (Aug 16, 2005)

Every night I repackage my G4 eMac back in it's original packaging, and place it back in it's box. I then shrink wrap the whole thing to make sure it is sealed airtight. Then I place it in a custom made climate controlled storage facility guarded by 2 Mac Geniuses from the Apple store just in case. I was considering using the built in "Sleep" function instead though... ::evil::


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## Amie (Aug 18, 2005)

mambopanda said:
			
		

> Every night I repackage my G4 eMac back in it's original packaging, and place it back in it's box. I then shrink wrap the whole thing to make sure it is sealed airtight. Then I place it in a custom made climate controlled storage facility guarded by 2 Mac Geniuses from the Apple store just in case. I was considering using the built in "Sleep" function instead though... ::evil::


LMAO!!!


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## Amie (Sep 2, 2007)

fryke said:


> dktrickey: I said if it doesn't sleep, RAM and processor are still active, i.e. they do things and change. Didn't mean that RAM is off in sleep mode, although I didn't put it clearly... In sleep mode, RAM is preserved, i.e. there's still a little power going to that area... (That's why sleep mode doesn't work for more than a few days.)



Huh? Your last statement threw me. I don't know about you guys, but the Sleep mode on my iBook works for a LOT longer than a few days...


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## Captain Code (Sep 2, 2007)

Amie said:


> Huh? Your last statement threw me. I don't know about you guys, but the Sleep mode on my iBook works for a LOT longer than a few days...



It will last a lot longer as long as your battery has the charge.  I think the laptops still only draw about 5-10 W in sleep mode which is pretty low.


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## fryke (Sep 2, 2007)

Wow. Did somebody put you to sleep for 2 years?  This thread's _really_ old.  ... Trying to remember how that was with iBooks in 2005... Well: Couple of days can mean anything from 2-7, I guess. Could be I meant a week rather than 3 days. Anyway: I of course meant if external power is _not_ connected. Sleep might actually work for *decades* if power's connected. However: I don't think any iBook/PowerBook/MacBook holds the sleep state for two weeks before powering down. Newer notebooks (last PowerBooks and all MacBooks) save the RAM to the harddrive before going to sleep, so it doesn't matter that much anymore anyway, though.


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## ex2bot (Sep 3, 2007)

A blast from the past! I think the site software needs to be revised to make the posting date more prominent! It took me a few minutes to realize this was from two years ago. I couldn't remember posting to this thread.

Doug


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## Ferdinand (Sep 4, 2007)

I know this is an old thread - but if your Mac is a desktop, shut it down! Its such a *waste of energy*, to just keep it on all night.


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## nixgeek (Sep 4, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> I know this is an old thread - but if your Mac is a desktop, shut it down! Its such a *waste of energy*, to just keep it on all night.



You're probably right, but when you have to access it remotely it becomes a problem.  I access my Mac remotely often so it's not an option for me.  I just have it go into a sleep mode and wake on network activity.


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## PGTips (Sep 4, 2007)

Or you could make it run something useful, like Protein folding or some such. What's a few dollars (or ££) if you contribute towards life saving treatments?


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## bbloke (Sep 4, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> I know this is an old thread - but if your Mac is a desktop, shut it down! Its such a *waste of energy*, to just keep it on all night.


This may well be true.  The counterargument I hear is that if you use your computer a lot, frequent startups and shutdowns (instead of leaving it on) will add to wear and tear on the components, particularly hard drives.  It is not easy to make a factual comparison between the energy required to produce components and the energy required to simply leave components running all the time, with an added estimation of how the wear and tear varies in either case!

It's a bit like leaving a car idling versus switching it off, in terms of energy rather than wear and tear in this case.  Starting a car up requires more energy than to simply keep it running once started.  I'm sure there is a cross-over, though, and there is a point where leaving it idling for a long period consumes more energy than if it had been switched off for the same period (and therefore needs starting again).  Where that cross-over is, I don't know, though...

I can easily believe that we should be more conscientious about our consumption of materials and our usage of energy.  I admit there are plenty of areas where I could be doing a lot more than I am...  At the same time, I genuinely don't know who's right when it comes to the sorts of issues mentioned above, as I have not seen any figures to support either approach.



PGTips said:


> Or you could make it run something useful, like Protein folding or some such. What's a few dollars (or ££) if you contribute towards life saving treatments?


Actually, that's not a bad idea...


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## Rhisiart (Sep 4, 2007)

bbloke said:


> The counterargument I hear is that if you use your computer a lot, frequent startups and shutdowns (instead of leaving it on) will add to wear and tear on the components, particularly hard drives...


If every computer user in the western world turned their computers off at night, we could probably reverse global warming by 0.00000000000000000000000000001%.

If the USA and emerging global competitors (i.e. Brazil, China and India) cut carbon emissions by 20% over the next ten years, we could reverse global warming by 57%.


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## Captain Code (Sep 4, 2007)

A few days ago on the Nature of Things they said if the entire world used as much energy as Canada we'd need 5 planets to sustain us.


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## Qion (Sep 4, 2007)

Captain Code said:


> A few days ago on the Nature of Things they said if the entire world used as much energy as Canada we'd need 5 planets to sustain us.



We could already use a few more. 

I would take those kinds of statements with a large grain of salt; humans use too much, we know this. I believe that we can either learn to invent a perfect energy source and a means to escape our exploding sun in 5bn years, or we can accept the fact that we will all die eventually. I try to be conservative, but usually I cannot philosophically justify being anal-retentive.


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## CaribbeanOS-X (Sep 4, 2007)

The earth will make its correction, when we push the envelope too far, count on that.


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## bbloke (Sep 5, 2007)

rhisiart said:


> If every computer user in the western world turned their computers off at night, we could probably reverse global warming by 0.00000000000000000000000000001%.
> 
> If the USA and emerging global competitors (i.e. Brazil, China and India) cut carbon emissions by 20% over the next ten years, we could reverse global warming by 57%.


Fair enough.  It doesn't quite answer my question, though.  Most computer magazines and sites seem to sit on the fence and just say there are two approaches, and it is up to the reader to decide.  

I've been doing a little bit of looking around last night and this morning, and I found a few sites that mention the issue.  There's still quite a mixture of opinions, but it looks like more people might be advocating switching off now.  Some are saying that computer components have been improved enough over the years that we need not worry about the wear and tear anymore.  Three of the links I came across:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/comp99/CS063.htm

http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article2828961.ece

http://www.rfuz.com/hardware/hardwa...our-off-your-pc-overnight-or-let-it-run-.html

Also, I want to ensure there is no misunderstanding.  I'm certainly not saying we should ignore environmental concerns (!), that I don't believe in issues like global warming, or the like.  I'm only meaning that I've been unsure _which method_ is the most environmentally friendly _overall _and have tended to stick with leaving things on, partly based on experience of other equipment that is more prone to failure when switched off and on frequently...


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## PGTips (Sep 5, 2007)

rhisiart said:


> If the USA and emerging global competitors (i.e. Brazil, China and India) cut carbon emissions by 20% over the next ten years, we could reverse global warming by 57%.



Or we could wait 20 years or so for the global warming fad to die out and they'll bring back global cooling like we had in the 1970s.


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## Qion (Sep 5, 2007)

There have been at least four major ice ages in our planet's history. Attempting to control global temperature could potentially have a more devastating effect than cautiously going about our lives... again, there's no reason to be anal-retentive. As long as the majority remains fairly smart about recycling, driving, ecetera, we're just as well off as jumping on the global warming boat so hard that we fall into the opposite spectrum.


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## AikiMacbu (Sep 6, 2007)

mindbend said:


> Sleep.
> 
> I have never shut down my iBook in over a year. (Restarted a few times for software updates, of course.)
> 
> ...



Not very Green of you...7 MAC's on fulltime at $35 a month EACH in direct and indirect energy costs per month (when they're plugged in).

There's a good reason to shut down every night. 

William Hazen


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## AikiMacbu (Sep 6, 2007)

rhisiart said:


> If every computer user in the western world turned their computers off at night, we could probably reverse global warming by 0.00000000000000000000000000001%.
> 
> If the USA and emerging global competitors (i.e. Brazil, China and India) cut carbon emissions by 20% over the next ten years, we could reverse global warming by 57%.



Very Weak argument and not factual in the least. the reality is the majority of Global Warming Gases are Methane from domesticated farm animals like cattle and pigs, so if you stopped eating MEAT you would cut down these gases by over 75%!!! And... thats not to mention the indirect savings since most of the Western World's Meat is factory farmed and requires huge amount of grain and oil in order for folks to have that big old steak or fried chicken dinner.

Also Western, Asian and Latin energy demands have increased 3 fold since the dawn of the consumer MAC/PC age and a huge majority of coal production , coal emmisions, acid rain ect ect is to support the worlds electrical power grids.

You folks better get your facts straight when it comes to responsible use of your MAC's. Personally I always assumed we MAC folks we're an ethical and socially aware bunch of folks... Some of the posts I see on this thread are causing me to have a little doubt about that.

Shutting down your computer and responsible MAC use may not mean much to you, but your kids will thank you for it. 

William Hazen


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## karavite (Sep 7, 2007)

Right on Bill! Nothing like the facts to spoil an argument. Ever drive through Iowa and Nebraska? I have many times. For hundreds of miles the air smells like animal poop. Realize how much gas it takes to make that much area smell and you can understand, in a more practical first hand way, how meat production contributes to methane and other greenhouse gases. And what is it all for? So we can eat tons of meat, have high cholesterol and spend trillions on health care for heart disease (and do a lousy inefficient job of it at that). What a mad mad world it is.


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## Ferdinand (Sep 8, 2007)

AikiMacbu said:


> Shutting down your computer and responsible MAC use may not mean much to you, but your kids will thank you for it.
> 
> William Hazen



So true.


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## PGTips (Sep 9, 2007)

This is the article I am beginning to direct people in the West to who start being preachy about being eco friendly and such. You hate being affluent? Then swap with us. I grew up in the third world, and moved away for university and never really looked back. People who argue about the emerging economies of China and Latin America and how that will affect the environment are arguing against the modernization of these areas. 

Here's a better solution. Don't stop progress in the West. Swap your citizenship with someone in the third world. This is a win-win situation. You guys get to live your eco friendly lifestyle, where we don't own cars, plant our own vegetables, don't have factory farms (nasty nasty methane. Oh no), eat mainly plant products, conserve water in creative ways, etc. On the other hand, the third worlder will get to enjoy the trappings of the modern lifestyle. 

Sounds harsh? Yup, it is. It just truly annoys me where people who are born and raised in the affluence of the West try to keep back the development of other countries by invoking eco "issues" and also seek to modern amenities because they are deemed non eco friendly.


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## Satcomer (Sep 9, 2007)

PGTips said:


> Sounds harsh? Yup, it is. It just truly annoys me where people who are born and raised in the affluence of the West try to keep back the development of other countries by invoking eco "issues" and also seek to modern amenities because they are deemed non eco friendly.



Exactly! What a lot of people can't get there head around that the "eco" community is just a bunch of racists. Yes, I just said that. To me it seems most "eco" promoters seem to want to keep third world peoples down.


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## AikiMacbu (Sep 10, 2007)

Racists? Just a tired old Meme...That would be like saying all third worlders are greedy and corrupt...

China is destroying it's ecology to catch up with the West So are other parts of the third world.

Cutting off your nose and calling it an improvement to your face is not the answer either...

William Hazen


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## Amie (Sep 13, 2007)

bbloke said:


> Fair enough.  It doesn't quite answer my question, though.  Most computer magazines and sites seem to sit on the fence and just say there are two approaches, and it is up to the reader to decide.
> 
> I've been doing a little bit of looking around last night and this morning, and I found a few sites that mention the issue.  There's still quite a mixture of opinions, but it looks like more people might be advocating switching off now.  Some are saying that computer components have been improved enough over the years that we need not worry about the wear and tear anymore.  Three of the links I came across:
> 
> ...



Hmm, I don't know... The first link sounds like it's talking about desktops, not laptops (which is what my OP was referring to). The first article says: "...But, moving components, like the fans, will tend to wear out the more they are left on. ..." Fans? I don't know about you all, but my iBook's fan doesn't run while in Sleep mode. (Or does it? If it does, then I had no idea.) I don't hear/feel anything while it's sleeping. I thought Sleep was basically like being off. HDs stop spinning, lights go out, fans stop, etc.? Or am I way off here???

The second one is referring to offices that are overloaded with computers and use mass amounts of energy every day. In an office environment, with multiple computers, then yes, I would agree, shutting down is best. Which I do at work. But my personal laptop? I usually just sleep it. I shut down or reboot once a week as a rule of thumb, just to give it a fresh boot, but other than that it's sleeping.

The third link is referring to PCs (it says so in the article). There seems to be a difference in Sleep in PCs vs. Macs. The difference being: Apple's Sleep mode seems to actually work.


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