# Dear macosx.com Therapist,



## Trip (Sep 9, 2002)

In this thread you can complain to, ask of, question, or just sit and let your hearts questions go. Questions dealing with life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.  Other members will answer your question, share their opinion on your thought, or just sit and stare at you. I'll start us off with another one of my ever-so-rare girl questions:

How do you know the difference between flirtting and talking?


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## xaqintosh (Sep 9, 2002)

you don't 

j/k, I have no idea


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 9, 2002)

There are two answers:

The hard answer: practice, practice, practice.

The easy (easier) answer: watch for changes in mood. If this is someone you see often, watch if they are all of a sudden putting a lot of emotional weight on what you say and do. Then again, that could also be a sign of a good friend, but I'll leave that up to you. If a girl likes to laugh at what you would ordinarily deem a very stupid joke, or is all of a sudden making up a lot of inside jokes with you, you may be on to something. With a stranger, its a little harder, since you don't know their personality and therefore do not know what is out of character for them. If you get the sense that a girl is going out of their way to talk or be with you, then you've got soemthing. Gut feeling can very very important. Even easier is if you're out and meet a stranger. If you strike up a conversation and feel that it has gone well, you can always leave a # and then leave. She'll call if she wants to, and the pressure's off you. Of course, you'll make sure that you're within 15 feet of a phone for four days straight, but it can be worth it.

Thats a summary of my experience. If you could go a little more in depth with this scenario, if it is actually a distinct person you are talking about, then I'm sure a lot of members could be very helpful. I'm curious to see what Ed has to sayu about this, not because he's a therapist of sorts , but because he's kind of the "father" figure around here.


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## edX (Sep 10, 2002)

*ed hobbles in on his cane, sits in the rocking chair and begins to recollect about the women in his life...remembers that isn't the subject and ....*

like Phil said, this isn't going to be a therapist type answer. more the shared experience of a guy who had a horrible time with women till he was about 17 and then read the book "how to pick up women" (for real  ). 

first, phil's advice is pretty good. except i would never give a girl my number and expect her to call. i would get her number and call her in a day or 2. If she gives you the number she is definitly interested in you for some reason. it still could be as friends though. 

one good indication i found is that a girl who is flirting will tend to touch you physically. this can be a bit confusing with younger girls who still haven't figured out the effect/affect physical contact has on males, but for most girls this is true. another good indication is her eyes. if she is flirting she will either tend to stare at you or to consciously avoid eye contact. a friend will casually make eye contact and then shift away and then make eye contact and then look away, etc. a girl with an interest in you will either want you to know or will look quite awkward trying to keep you from knowing. 

this may sound hard to believe, but girls have all the same fears and confusions about guys. they are also afraid of being rejected and hurt. afraid of being emabarassed or of things not being what they seem with a guy. so unless this is the most popular girl in school, she likely _could_ be interested if she approaches you at all for any reason other than to get you to do her homework for her. the real thing is to be brave enough to be a bit flirtatious yourself. you need to let a girl you are interested in know how you feel. do it nicely and she will feel good about it even if she doesn't feel the same. and believe me the relief of knowing where you stand is better than being in limbo and being self conscious about your every move.

oh, and last thing - flirtation normally uses feeling words and subtle body language. also it contains compliments. if a girl tells you that you are cute or you have nice legs or she "likes" something about you that seems wierd to you, then that is flirting. 

warning - teenage girls (well, lots of females of all ages really) sometimes like to flirt for their own gratification. they are interested in getting attention and making themselves feel better. they may have no other interest in the male they are talking to beyond that. flirting doesn't always mean something else is in the possible future. so again, being clear on how you feel is the best solution. the more you do this, the better feel you will get for what is really going on with women. 

and trip - don't get too hung up worrying about high school girls. once you get to college, women are slightly more mature and easier to deal with. high school is a great time to make lots of mistakes. chances are you'll never see 90% of these girls again after HS, except for reunions. at which point they will all be interested if you have learned to apply all you learned from them.  (or you'll be happily settled with a woman who doesn't treat you like they did and can just laugh at them)

oh, and never discount the advantages of friendship. being friends with a girl will get you access to their friends. plus many great relationships start as friends and then develop into something else.


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## Shifting (Sep 10, 2002)

ooh, a thread about talking to girls!  i love these sorta threads. 



> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *If she gives you the number she is definitly interested in you for some reason.*



true......BUT.....i've gotten too many fake phone numbers that way.  and it's not like i hit on tons of chicks, either.  i've had women approach me, we hit it off, and then i get her number and it winds up being fake.  sad but true.  i'm starting to think that there is a growing population of sadistic women out there.  either that or i just have rotten luck.

anyways, carry on, i dig this kinda discussion.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 10, 2002)

> true......BUT.....i've gotten too many fake phone numbers that way. and it's not like i hit on tons of chicks, either. i've had women approach me, we hit it off, and then i get her number and it winds up being fake. sad but true. i'm starting to think that there is a growing population of sadistic women out there. either that or i just have rotten luck.



You and Ed are right, my advice wasn't flexible enough. I'm thinking of the HS sort of scene, but I could certainly imagine that happening at a bar, or soem kind of other "mature" place. It's 6:23 AM here, so I'm going to stop thinking.


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## Inline_guy (Sep 10, 2002)

I always flirt with women.  I think it is just great fun.  But it can also be a problem.  Because they always think I am interested.  Why is that bad.  Two reasons :: a.) they think I like them, but they don't like me and then they get stand-off-ish for fear of hurting my feelings, b.) they fall in love with me and then I have to explain that I am gay and it just will not work.

But after response a.) and or b.) subside I am left with this really neat flirty relationship.  And I kind of like that.

Matthew


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## Shifting (Sep 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Matrix Agent _
> * You and Ed are right, my advice wasn't flexible enough. I'm thinking of the HS sort of scene, but I could certainly imagine that happening at a bar, or soem kind of other "mature" place. It's 6:23 AM here, so I'm going to stop thinking.  *



haha.  yeah it is pretty late/early.

anyways, well i can only relate to the bar scene.  personally i wouldn't trust high school girls at all, but that's just me.

but what i said in my previous post, that's happened to me at bars.  a girl will approach me, we'll hit it off, i'll buy her a drink(s), we'll talk for an hour, and then she'll give me a fake number.  i just don't get it.  what, is messing with me worth a free drink and little bit of attention?  i don't think so.....so like i said, i think there are a growing number of sadistic women out there.  there's just no other explanation.


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## Trip (Sep 10, 2002)

I'm mainly focused around this HS girl thing because for my older siblings (all three) they have met the girl (or guy) of their dreams, grown up together and gotten maried! We're talking girls they met in 6th through 10th grade here! I know chances of this happening a fourth time with me are slim, I know that, but it's still worth a try getting to know people, right? 

I have no confidence in myself. Usually I try to get a girl to talk with me instead of me talking with her. I just feel more secure that way and can usually carry on the conversation for a while. I just don't know how to start off a conversation.

Also on the original flirting subject: There's this girl in my language class who i've known for a while now...and she's always talking to me (makes me feel cool) and she keeps asking me things like: "Do you hate me?" or "Do you like sitting by me?" and I usually reply with a: "Erm..." or "Uhhh..." because I don't want to look stupid by saying: "No, I love to sit by you!" 

Thoughts?


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 10, 2002)

Without knowing her personally, I would give you a 65% chance that she is intersted. The other thing that you must watch out for is that those questions are looking for compliments. This could be good or bad. If its good, it means that she just wants your respect and wants to know how you feel about her. If its bad, she could have low self esteem or could be a flirt who is looking for someone to boost their ego.

Never an easy answer, is there?


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## edX (Sep 10, 2002)

there is little or no doubt in my mind this girl has some kind of interest in you. It would certainly be worth investigating to find out what kind of interest that is. i agree with Phil that this could be a good or bad thing. but in general, girls tend to like being liked, even if they don't feel the same way in return. I have never had a girl hate me for liking her. Just don't turn into a stalker!! 

i would caution you though about trying to compare yourself to your syblings. comparing to others is almost always decptive. couples tend to put on different faces for the world than they do with each other. judge yourself by how you feel, not how you think others feel. judge yoursef by what you want and appreciate, not by what others have. the only measure of anything in your life should be your happiness with it.

now, as for the girls in bars issue - learn to recognize the difference between a girl who is genuinely attracted and lounge lizards. yes, lounge lizards are just looking for someone to buy them drinks and hang out with while they decide who they want to go home with or they go somewhere else to meet their boyfriend. they are often spotted licking their lips alot or putting their finger up to their lips. they tend to lean a little too close but back away if you move towards them. they will hang out as long as they feel they are in control or they are ready to move on. they will flip and be gone in a flash if they feel that their victim is in control. typically they have a little too much makeup, wear revealing clothes and never carry a purse or their own money. They tend to go to the bathroom alot. or leave you alone to go talk to their friends in between hustling for drinks. and getting fake numbers is just part of the game. many girls in their late teens and early 20's seem to derive their personal sense of worth by teasing guys. they don't want the intimacy of a relationship or of physical contact. they just want to know that men want them and that they have control over men. sad fact of life - the girls you treat with the least amount of respect and attention will be the ones who continue to seek it from you. girls you get all goo goo over tend to walk all over you and take you for granted. 

but like Phil said, there's never a easy answer. there are always exceptions to every rule and always different ways to interpret interactions.  in the end, direct communication is the best bet. don't be afraid to ask a girl if she is trying to say what you think she is saying with her actions and words. If she was, she'll be impressed you picked up on it. if not, you'll save yourself any more wasted time and embarrassment by finding out sooner rather than later. There will never be a shortage of available women so don't act like each potential relationship or encounter is some devastating event if it doesn't work out. 

that's enough for now i think.

oh, i must add that i have often been jealous of gay guys like Inline guy who can have these great flirtatious relationships with women without them being threatening.  but then again, i always remembered that i liked to do more than flirt so....


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## Shifting (Sep 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *now, as for the girls in bars issue - learn to recognize the difference between a girl who is genuinely attracted and lounge lizards. yes, lounge lizards are just looking for someone to buy them drinks and hang out with while they decide who they want to go home with or they go somewhere else to meet their boyfriend. they are often spotted licking their lips alot or putting their finger up to their lips. they tend to lean a little too close but back away if you move towards them. they will hang out as long as they feel they are in control or they are ready to move on. they will flip and be gone in a flash if they feel that their victim is in control. typically they have a little too much makeup, wear revealing clothes and never carry a purse or their own money. They tend to go to the bathroom alot. or leave you alone to go talk to their friends in between hustling for drinks. and getting fake numbers is just part of the game. many girls in their late teens and early 20's seem to derive their personal sense of worth by teasing guys. they don't want the intimacy of a relationship or of physical contact. they just want to know that men want them and that they have control over men. sad fact of life - the girls you treat with the least amount of respect and attention will be the ones who continue to seek it from you. girls you get all goo goo over tend to walk all over you and take you for granted.*



you're absolutely right, Ed.  and you know, in the back of my mind, i know all this already, but there's always that part of me (the majority) that wants to always give the women the benefit of the doubt.  so if i get a fake number, i always assume at first that it's an honest mistake.  but i know better....i just enjoy self-delusion.  and the thing about not wanting anything more then control, i've thought of that too.  i always dismissed it as pessimism on my part, but no, you're right, it does happen, and all too often.

that's the main thing that surprised me about the bar scene, when i first got into it.....it's a warzone.  it looks like innocent fun on the surface, yet underneath it's all power struggles, mixed signals and plenty of double standards.  the presence of alcohol only makes it that much more chaotic.  haha, i guess the key is to deal with that and still have fun, right?  that's tough for me, because i'm the guy that goes into every single situation with my mind going in overdrive.  but i do manage to enjoy myself once in awhile.  and surprisingly, i've managed to actually meet a couple genuinely nice women in my months of working at it.  well that surprises me at least, considering how cut-throat the bar scene can be.

but i like older women.  in general they're gonna be more serious.  i don't mess with younger women if i can help it.  older women are tough enough to deal with.

sorry i can't help with the HS stuff, but i never had any luck with girls until after HS.  and i'm still learning...we're very lucky that we have an old pro like Ed here to advise us!


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## edX (Sep 11, 2002)

yea, well, i never had much luck with HS girls either till i was half way thru my senior year. College was better, but i was busy making up for lost time and learning all the things i should have learned in HS. The sooner you start making mistakes, the sooner you get it right. But from age 21 to 31, i spent most of my time in bars. my business required that i be out in bars 5-6 nights a week to make a living at it. i published a local entertainment rag geared towards rock and roll. i learned a lot about women in bars, bar women, and women who just happened to be in a bar. I learned how to figure out where to stand to meet the women the easiest. how to size up a woman and figure if she was real or just a player. of course i had a great teacher at one point - a musician named Fast Fred. Fred taught Ed a lot about how to score which is entirely a different thing than what trip is wanting to know. and you are right - bars are typically warzones. i laughed when i read that cause i knew you had already seen past the 'fun' and into the reality. of course, as long as you realize that, you can still enjoy being a 'soldier' for a few years. once you get that perspective, you have the ability to not let the bar scene engulf you. you keep the control. You can be  general in the army rather than a private. 

oh, and really want to have some fun one nite - go to a bar and don't drink alcohol. try drinking a pop with a twist of lemon or lime so it looks like a drink. it will give you a whole new perspective. and as you stand at the bar all relaxed, but not swaying, you might even attract a girl who detects "there's something different about you than everybody else" .  

funny thing, the relationship i have been in for the past 10 years began in a bar. a divorcee meet market to be exact. I would never have figured it would have turned out like it did the nite we met. so even if i sound a bit cynical about bar slu...i mean babes, i also know that there are still good women to be found there. you just have to get lucky and be willing to do something more than play games yourself.  rock and roll is an experience worth having in your life, but it's a rough life to try and live for too long. Hey, the great surprizes are when those phone numbers actually work.


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## Shifting (Sep 11, 2002)

yeah, it's when you least expect it that you meet someone worthwhile.  just like real life. 

but yeah, meat market is a good way to describe more "happening" bars.  i was just thinking that to myself last friday, when i was clubbing.  but i'm sorta jaded, i only go the same clubs, so i only see the same people, generally.  though there's always the chance of meeting someone new...

hmm, the "visiting a bar but not drinking" idea of yours sounds interesting.  i dunno if i have the self-control for that, though. 

yeah, i've seen the reality of it all.  can't say i'm too happy about it, but that's life...it's all about adaptation.

well, i'm glad to hear you've got a solid relationship, Ed.  a good guy like you deserves no less.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 14, 2002)

*Bump*

Com'on this one's interesting....

So whats going on Trip?


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## Trip (Sep 16, 2002)

Well one thing that's going on is my iBook broke, so my postings to macosx.com are going to be very limited for the next few months until I can dig up some cash to fix the book, on the other hand:

The girl that *is* interested in me (she told me today) is moving away next month. So I guess it's not a "true love" thing. But I'll enjoy it while I can (you can count on that!)

I've also become a demi-pimp now! I've found the most classical, smart, geneous way to start a conversation with a member of the opposite sex. What is this great thing that I have discovered you ask: 1 word: "Hi". That word with a little hand wave can do wonders! I've had at least 15 interesting conversations with random females that I have never met before in my entire life, and from the looks of it the girls really enjoyed the conversations we had!

Now that I've taken a step on the ladder I can start following your guys advice and keep moving up the ladder! 

Comments?
Oh and: Thanks to everybody who has posted so far, it means a lot to me!


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 16, 2002)

Hate to say it, but from the sounds of it I'd take the girl over the iBook anyday. 

And I defintely agree on your "hi" advice. Its all about confidence.

Thanks for the response and best of luck, sounds like good things are coming your way.


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## Decado (Sep 16, 2002)

Wow, this is the cuuuutest thread  
Its like being a high-school student again, before all bitterness and everything  
There is a fine, and hard found, line between stalking and acting hard-to-get / kool. Nobody (most) dont want to be stalkers. they want some of that equal society working their way so the girls (for once, i might add) bares their necks to the sharp axe of social embarrasment.

I tend to flip back and forth between stalking and acting cool (you know, like all the sudden being an expert in every subject she thinks is interesting so you can say intelligent stuff, and lying awake all night practicing spontaneous comments  ) and then when i meet her, i feel so ashamed for losing my koolness and going through all the trouble, so i ignore her. golly gosh (jepp, i have read the rules, Ed  ), that is weird.

Hang in there Trip! University is just around the corner and thats where it truly happens...


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## Trip (Jan 10, 2003)

Holy cow! This thread *is* old, but instead of posting a new one i thought i'd just update this one with my latest/greatest:

Today was an amazing(ly wierd) day! My social life has exploded and taken over half the universe! I never knew i had so many friends, and so many female friends in my life! Infact: i just found out that this one new girl that i've been friends with since the beginning of the year doesn't have a boyfriend (for months i thought she did). And now i'm thinking about asking her out. There's a dance on thursday so it all works out nicely.

I don't know though. Maybe this is a one day thing only. But i've never seen so many people happy to see me in a long time. 

Life is good my friends, life is very good.


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## Decado (Jan 10, 2003)

Kool, Trip! i wish you all luck!
me and my girlfriend broke up a few days ago. we had a very easy-going relationship. used to hang around my apartment playing nintendo-emulators (NES) on my eMac and plan university-stuff (we are both in leading positions in the swedish student-union). 
But i guess we realised we were better off as friends 
But it was nice, cuz we both thought it was for the best 
Now i will find the love of my life (hmm, tend to say that everytime)

/jonathan


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## JohnnyV (Jan 10, 2003)

Trip I was having the same experience that you are a few months ago, then it all came crashing to the ground..   Be careful who you *think* your friends are.


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## Trip (Jan 10, 2003)

I'll remeber your words.


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## MacLuv (Jan 10, 2003)

Flirting vs. Talking?

I'm going to be a bit of a rude boy here (but I'm allowed, it's our manhood we're talking about) and say this:

If you want to get with the chick it's flirting, if you want to get the study assignment it's talking. If you find yourself not knowing what to say next or feel like you should throw in some "cool" one-liners here and there, it's flirting. If at any moment you find yourself thinking of any excuse to go talk to someone else it's talking.

Turning on your "radar" to tell if a girl is talking or flirting, observe the following within the conversation:

1. Is she talking about things that she would talk about with anyone (generic questions) or is she asking you things about yourself?

2. Does she go out of her way to speak with you?

3. Does she make eye-contact? 

4. Does she have her hand on your knee?

5. Does she have "the look"?

If the answer to all of these questions is YES, by all means RUN AWAY. 

If, however, you can only answer "yes" to a few of these questions, then you're "in the game" and should pursue it as much as you like, this would indeed be flirting.

If the answer is "no" to all of these questions, the girl "ain't all that anyway" and should be kicked to the curb.

 Happy Hunting


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## MacLuv (Jan 10, 2003)

BTW-- There are only two types of chicks that can be "just friends". That's your mother and your sister. Everything else is fair game.


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## Trip (Jan 10, 2003)

You probably won't know this, because people are different, but still: if she talks to me about not being able to date people she hangs out with... 

Today i had a conversation with her about the upcoming dance, i said i couldn't find anybody who wasn't taken yet and she said she wasn't. It went on from there. I think she wanted me to ask her...but i couldn't get up the nerve.


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

trip - if a girl tells you she hasn't been asked to the dance after what you just said, she is practically asking you to ask her right then. pick up the phone and call her. ask her. if she says no, i'll make you a supermoderator for a week's trial basis. 


do it before somebody else does!!!


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## Trip (Jan 10, 2003)

What if i wait until Monday? 
I can't call her this late...it'd just be awful. Plus i'd need to plan ahead (find a group to go with, see who's driving, who's paying, where to eat.) But i'm getting excited now.


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

do it this weekend sometime. ask first, plan later. no since in making plans and having something go wrong like somebody else ask her while you're planning. girls like to get calls. face to face is fine, but girls like it when they know you made a special effort just to talk to them - about anything. that is if they like you and it sounds like she does. just don't start planning your life with her yet. one thing at a time.


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## Sogni (Jan 10, 2003)

Yeah - what Ed said! 
Seriously, forget about all the rest of the details - if worse comes to worse you can at least hang out with her, which to me was never a bad thing. 

I'v ended up kicking myself  for thinking too much about it (I do that A LOT!), What's the worst than can happen? If it does not work out - at least you tried and you won't kick yourself after! 

Put it this way, I found the girl of my dreams - she litterally walked out of my dreams and into my life! We ended up dating...

But because of stupid me thinking too much, she left back home (foreigner) and married someone else! 

I kicked myself for that one for a good long time... :/


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## edX (Jan 10, 2003)

> if worse comes to worse you can at least hang out with her, which to me was never a bad thing



boy, the more ithought about it the more i think sogni has some great advice there.

if, on the off hand half of a chance she says no, be sure to listen to how she says no. is it a "sorry, i've gotta wash my hair that nite" or "thanks, but i think i'll wait for a better offer" kind of no, OR is it a "hmm, i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable at the dance" or "that's not really my kind of thing" kind of no? if it's the first, then just forget ever being more than friends. be glad you found out and move on. if it's the latter, be prepared with other suggestions of something you could do as a "date". even if it's only talking on the phone that nite cause neither of you drive. sometimes a matter of getting a yes, is simply putting the question the right way. a girl who says "no, i don't want to go to the dance" could still say "yes, i'd like to do something else together."


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## MacLuv (Jan 11, 2003)

OH FOR FSCK SAKE YOU PANSIES JUST ASK THE GIRL OUT

lol



:the smiley with the bonking head:


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## edX (Jan 11, 2003)

hey Macluv - he's 15. give him a break. hell, he's braver than iwas at that age just by asking for advice about it. i was so scared to ask the girl i liked out when i was 17 that i dated her best friend for a month before i finally admitted who i really liked and she helped hook me up. the friend had kinda figured it out already when i was hesitant to kiss her good nite.


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## MacLuv (Jan 11, 2003)

lol... no I know man... ahhhhhh... i only said that to contrast the massive amount of analysis that was being put forth to the lad... i suppose by the time he digests it all trip will be 30!

Like the nike ads say: JUST DO IT!

 <women aren't the mystery you think they are, and one day you'll wish they were>


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## MacLuv (Jan 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *hey Macluv - he's 15. give him a break. hell, he's braver than iwas at that age just by asking for advice about it. i was so scared to ask the girl i liked out when i was 17 that i dated her best friend for a month before i finally admitted who i really liked and she helped hook me up. the friend had kinda figured it out already when i was hesitant to kiss her good nite.  *



lol... ed this cracks me up dude... lol... the ol "backdoor routine" !!!!!!!!! *totally*



BTW-- i can totally relate of course, i didn't start dating seriously until I was about 18... i was a late bloomer... of course that doesn't mean I didn't like girls... I had crushes on chicks since I was like, in the third grade. 

One time to impress a girl I rearranged the letters on the giant school marquee to ask her out on a date. People weren't into text messaging at the time (no cell phones back then) so I doubt she could really understand my message. My friends made fun of me for months. 

I remember the first time I asked a girl out for a date to the roller skating rink. She said "yes" at first but later sent me a note in class about "just being friends". I was crushed, but let's say one must live and learn. Later on in life she became a babe and totally dug me, but I moved away and had the last goodbye. Life is a strange thing sometimes... lol


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## edX (Jan 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> * i suppose by the time he digests it all trip will be 30! *



no, i was hoping with our help he would beat the natural learning curve and have it figured out in his mid 20's  




> <women aren't the mystery you think they are, and one day you'll wish they were>



word.


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## Shifting (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by edX _
> *hell, he's braver than iwas at that age just by asking for advice about it. i was so scared to ask the girl i liked out when i was 17 that i dated her best friend for a month before i finally admitted who i really liked and she helped hook me up. the friend had kinda figured it out already when i was hesitant to kiss her good nite.  *



i totally hear you there Ed.  i was 19 when i started my first real relationship, and i had no idea what to do....lucky for me my first G/F had infinite patience & understand with me.  those first times are tough.

so how goes it with the woman, Trip?  sorry i completely forgot about this thread, and i'm too lazy to read it all.


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## Trip (Jan 12, 2003)

I thought about it, and we've been friends for only a short time! So tomorrow i'm going to ask her to lunch and we'll get to know eachother better. Then we'll see what happens.


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## Trip (Feb 4, 2003)

Well I think i already told Ed this but: i didn't ask her out, and i think her and i are fine being friends. Honestly i don't want to go anywhere else with this individual. On the otherhand there is a certain lady i would like to move on with, but we don't talk much. We talk probably once everyother week. Although we do say 'hi' often to eachother.

My question for tonight (i could really use a mature response by tomorrow morning) is: what's a good conversation starter for a person like this? I can't seem of anything to say! And if she's with friends should i risk embarassing myself?


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## Shifting (Feb 6, 2003)

Trip, dunno if i can help.

my own game revolves around being up front from the get-go.

for example, the girl i met last week.  i obviously showed her i liked her from the start.  and she responded in kind, and i'm gonna see her again tomorrow.

but that can't work for your situation.  but i still prescribe the same.  let her know you're interested.  and if she responds to it, so much the better.  and if she doesn't....her loss.  life is too short to have regrets.

my advice is in no way perfect, it's tailored for ME dealing with the local bar scene.  so keep that in mind.  but no matter what, remember that you HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.

good luck to the both of us.


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## Trip (Feb 6, 2003)

hum...i don't think she likes me. She didn't sit by me today, and we didn't talk at all. 

How can i become more of a friend with her? What can i say instead of "hi, i like you."?


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## edX (Feb 6, 2003)

how about "hi, what did you think of class today?" or yesterday, or in general. start with something you know you have in common.  if a gir's interested, "hi" is enough sometimes. if she needs to become aware that sh'e interested then you've to give her some reasons why. the more you talk, and the less you worry about what you're 'supposed' to talk about, the more natural it will all be.


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## Trip (Feb 6, 2003)

I'm really depressed on this subject now. It's the first time i've ever felt a specific way towards any girl. I went to her game tonight (she plays school sports) but she didn't wave/say hi or anything. I don't know if she doesn't like me or if we need to become more of friends. 

I don't know, i need to sleep. 'night.


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## Shifting (Feb 7, 2003)

Trip, i'm sorry if my advice sucked.

cause i know it did.

dunno what to tell you.  high school is rough, when women are concerned.

i still stick by my original ideas, though.  you have to make it clear from the get-go that you're interested, or....checkmate.

and if she doesn't like you?  move on.  i know it's the worst advice, but really, spare yourself the pain.  i wish someone had drummed that into my head at your age.  cause i've wasted YEARS on worthless chicks.  and it's so not worth it.  man, move on.  you WILL meet someone else.  just be patient.


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## edX (Feb 7, 2003)

> and if she doesn't like you?  move on.  i know it's the worst advice, but really, spare yourself the pain.  i wish someone had drummed that into my head at your age.  cause i've wasted YEARS on worthless chicks.  and it's so not worth it.  man, move on.  you WILL meet someone else.  just be patient.



i couldn't have phrased it any better. it's a simple truth that you have to learn for yourself i guess.


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## Trip (Feb 7, 2003)

That hurts.


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## edX (Feb 7, 2003)

only briefly.


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## Trip (Feb 10, 2003)

I won't stop for her. NEVER!


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## Shifting (Feb 11, 2003)

Trip, Ed is right. (as am i  )

but it sounds like you're saying she doesn't like you.

is that what you're saying?

assuming so, you want to hang onto it?  more power to you.  but it's a lonely existance, man.  trust me, i know.  it's painful and lonely, and she will never understand.  NEVER.  you're only screwing yourself.....

and if i'm wrong about all this, good.  i sure hope so.


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## edX (Feb 11, 2003)

hey heartache is a fact of life if you have heart. it's probably not right in the bigger scheme of things for us to try and deny Trip the experience of it. i am sure he needs his own lessons just as we did. 

but Trip, you can't say we didn't try


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## Shifting (Feb 11, 2003)

Ed, once again you're right.

i'm just telling Trip not to HOLD ON to that heartache.  feel it, learn from it, yes, but don't hold on to it.  move on, and all that.


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## Trip (Feb 11, 2003)

Well, things are back to the way they were. We say hi everyday. But i want to move in and see if we can be friends better...i just can't get a decent moment! Or if i do get the right moment i'm occupied with something else at the time and forget until it's too late...

Finally: i AM prepaired. If she doesn't like me, and she shows/says it, then i can live with that. But right now i think our schedules are so messed up we never really see eachother.


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## Shifting (Feb 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Trip _
> *Well, things are back to the way they were. We say hi everyday. But i want to move in and see if we can be friends better...i just can't get a decent moment! Or if i do get the right moment i'm occupied with something else at the time and forget until it's too late... *



that's no such thing as a "good moment".  sure you might get lucky, but don't bet on it.  rather, take whatever opprotunities you can get...life is too short to hold back.



> *Finally: i AM prepaired. If she doesn't like me, and she shows/says it, then i can live with that. But right now i think our schedules are so messed up we never really see eachother. *



good to hear.  as for the time thing, i can totally relate, i'm going through the same thing with that girl i met.  we like each other, but there's just no time..she's always busy, and she lives pretty far from me...we can literally see each other for a couple hours a week.  it totally sucks, i feel your pain.


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## Trip (Mar 10, 2003)

New things:

I got a date! Tomorrow will officially be my first ever date, but the girl i'm going with isn't really my type, and she's not all that pretty. Is it wrong that i'm going with her although i'm positive i don't like her?!

I just got off the phone with the girl this thread was originally created for, not going to say anything more than: it went well.


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## edX (Mar 10, 2003)

go on the friggin date already. stop acting like you've got to marry the first girl you date. have fun. enjoy her for who she is, not what you want her to be. it's just a date. don't make it more than it is.


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## Ugg (Mar 10, 2003)

Naah, dates are cool as long as the terms of the date are understood by both parties before the date commences, well ok, before the date goes too far.  Don't lead her on and don't take advantage and who knows, maybe you'll get to know a side of her that you didn't think existed.


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## Trip (Mar 10, 2003)

Hehe...i don't know how to break it to her that i can't drive. What should i do about that? lol.


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## edX (Mar 10, 2003)

let her find out when yo pick her up. i assume one of your folks will be driving you 

(seriously, i'd figure out transportation before hand. if you've got it covered one way or another, don't worry about how she will judge you for it. ONCE AND FOR ALL TRIP - JUST RELAX AND ENJOY YOURSELF!!  )


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## Trip (Mar 10, 2003)

lol, i really don't care. It'll be an experience. 
But here's the situation: she's planned the date, and she told me to go to her house a little before we go out, i don't know if that means she thinks i'm driving or what...but i can't have my parents/family drive me! Instead i planned on my brother dropping me off.

Hahaha, what the heck am i suppost to do?!


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## Giaguara (Mar 10, 2003)

If you don't know what to do during the date, just post here if you can do that invisibly, we'll be here (e.g. when she's .. in an other room or so).  

Though it will be better if you'll be offline ...

Think Adidas. ('just do it')


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## Trip (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm going to tell her tomorrow during school that i can't use the car because my brothers going on a date too.


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## edX (Mar 10, 2003)

you crack me up Trip. 

unless you plan on this date being spent at her house, i suggest you let her know so she can plan for transportation. she is, afterall, the one planning this date. i assure you, there is no hurdle too big for a woman to overcome when it comes to something _she_ planned. 

_your brother has a date too - lol_


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## Trip (Mar 10, 2003)

I don't think i'm cut out for dating. 
Maybe lunch, but not dating. I'm screwed.


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## Trip (Mar 11, 2003)

Just got back, and i have to ask: are first dates just stupid, or just MY first date? 

It was fun though, i enjoyed it.


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## edX (Mar 11, 2003)

first dates are almost always awkward - no matter how many times you've been doing them. Your first, first date will most likely be the most awkward though, so now it's all downhill from here.


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## Shifting (Mar 12, 2003)

nice going, Trip.  glad you had a good time and all. 

but...

the $100,000 question is: are you gonna see her again?


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## Trip (Mar 12, 2003)

Probably not on a date.


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## Shifting (Mar 13, 2003)

i take it that's a good thing?


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## Trip (Mar 13, 2003)

Don't ask me.


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## Giaguara (Mar 14, 2003)

You had fun or not? 
When is your next then?


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## Trip (Mar 14, 2003)

I had fun, it was ok. The next is coming up...i'll be sure to let you know.


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## Trip (Dec 10, 2003)

Well, I decided to bring this thread back to life because of a pretty major event occured to me.

The girl of my dreams, the one and only, with eyes that hold within them new worlds, and whos smile could rule a nation...well, I told her I liked her and that we should go out (yes, finally I did it!) and...I she replied with "I don't hate you, but I just don't feel like...you know..."

*sigh*


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## bobw (Dec 10, 2003)

You'll meet a number of *Girl of your dreams* in your life, unfortunately, you'll wake up to, sometimes a nightmare. Hopefully you won't have a load of first dates.


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## Darkshadow (Dec 10, 2003)

Heh, oh yeah, you'll run into more than one of those.


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## applewhore (Dec 11, 2003)

bobw said:
			
		

> You'll meet a number of *Girl of your dreams* in your life, unfortunately, you'll wake up to, sometimes a nightmare.


ain't that the truth!!!

too funny, bobw!


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## symphonix (Dec 11, 2003)

Trip said:
			
		

> Well, I decided to bring this thread back to life because of a pretty major event occured to me.
> 
> The girl of my dreams, the one and only, with eyes that hold within them new worlds, and whos smile could rule a nation...well, I told her I liked her and that we should go out (yes, finally I did it!) and...I she replied with "I don't hate you, but I just don't feel like...you know..."
> 
> *sigh*



Take heart, Trip. It sounds like she's quite fond of you but just not looking for any kind of relationship right now. Maybe that will change, maybe it won't. Either way, there's no point worrying about it. Now that you've told her how you feel, it will make things a lot easier for both of you to be friends. Perhaps, once she gets to know the _real_ you, she might be more willing to entertain such notions. 

Anyhoo, Trip, you're obviously a cool guy with a good heart. Even if she's not the one for you, you'll get a reputation as a good guy, and that makes it much easier for girls to be comfortable around you.


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## Trillian (Dec 11, 2003)

[edit]Doh! wrong thread... how do i delete? [/edit]


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## kendall (Feb 15, 2004)

has Trip gotten laid yet or what?!


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## Trip (Feb 15, 2004)

Wow. Old thread...

Friday night was an amazing night. I had so much fun that night, I can't even explain how great it was. But I DID get my first kiss! Sure, it wasn't a real kiss and it wasn't by the girl I love, but a kiss on the cheek by an amazing girl is still something I'd die for.


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## speedfreak (Feb 15, 2004)

Trip said:
			
		

> Wow. Old thread...
> 
> Friday night was an amazing night. I had so much fun that night, I can't even explain how great it was. But I DID get my first kiss! Sure, it wasn't a real kiss and it wasn't by the girl I love, but a kiss on the cheek by an amazing girl is still something I'd die for.



What a great thread.  Good for you Trip.  And on Valentines Day no less.


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## UNIX X11 (Feb 16, 2004)

Lucky b*stard . . .


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## ora (Feb 16, 2004)

kendall said:
			
		

> has Trip gotten laid yet or what?!


I like it Kendall, you get straight to the point.

Good on ya Trip, first of many i am sure!  

Unix X11: lol, my valentines day wasn't great either.


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## Trip (Feb 16, 2004)

They said they'd call me, but have yet to. And I want to call them, but I was thinking...since they said they would, and they haven't...does that mean they're not interestd in our friendship anymore? Because I'm sure if I meant something to any of them they'd be like "Hey we should call Tanner and invite him over!" like on Friday night. But alas, they have yet to call. I'm hoping they'll call today.


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## UNIX X11 (Feb 16, 2004)

ora said:
			
		

> Unix X11: lol, my valentines day wasn't great either.


Please tell me your female. God I hope your female. And a Mac user. I don't think I could ever love a Windows user.


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## ora (Feb 16, 2004)

Sorry unix, I'm a guy, and i too am seeking the holy grail of the available female mac user (sigh).

Trip: Its only been a coupla days, don't read too much into it (if you haven't heard from them a couple of weeks from now you might be able to take it as a message). Reading too much into things is a BAD idea, and is something its easy to get caught up in (on which subject i think text messaging is one of the worst things that has ever happened to modern relationships- so few words, so many possible meanings...).
Also, remember some (though not all) women think the guy should do the phoning. I understand that you don't want to call too soon, but do call sometime. You don't want her to get the idea that you aren't interested, in friendship or romantic stuff.


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## UNIX X11 (Feb 16, 2004)

Lmao. I don't think they exist anymore. 
EDIT: famonymous: i'd say gia is prolly a good example of the holy grail of geeky mac-using females


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## Trip (Feb 16, 2004)

Problem with that is I don't have their numbers. I've been meaning to ask them but I always get carried away with the moment.


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