# G4 iBooks



## bookem (Oct 22, 2003)

I just heard they're going to be announced soon


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## Randman (Oct 22, 2003)

That would be sweet, and a logical progression, I would think. And I'm sure the IceLook will remain for a while, but I wonder what look the iBooks will next go to...?


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## Vard (Oct 22, 2003)

If you read anything regarding the G3 and what IBM expects to do with it you might come to the conclusion that I have.

First, why would Apple move the iBook to Moto's G4 and jump back into that headache just as they are starting to shed it?

Second, IBM has pretty major plans for the G3--that stay pin-compatible with the current line--that will make the G3 a BETTER processor than Moto's G4.  And this is especially true for portables.  You can find stuff on IBM's website showing what they want to do.  A couple of notables would be speeds over 1 Ghz, support for faster bus speeds than the current G4 and the real beauty, Altivec...which would do what, say it with me...make it a better processor than Moto's.

And when you consider the fabrication capability differences between IBM amd Moto I think the decision would be an easy one to make.

But then again, this is just my opinion, and hope.

Later,
Eddie


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## MoNkeY mAgIc (Oct 22, 2003)

G4 iBooks ready to buy right now from the Apple Store.

Looking pretty competetive too.


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## Vard (Oct 22, 2003)

I am wrong!  Wow....this is unexpected....

Later,
Eddie


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

Uah! The Norwegian Apple Store was down for a while, but I thought was just some regular updates.


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## Satcomer (Oct 22, 2003)

Talk about out of the blue!

Now, I predict that well see a mobile version of the G5 in the Powerbooks and they will be announced at Macworld San Francisco.


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## bookem (Oct 22, 2003)

Let's hope this means G5 Powerbooks soon!


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## legacyb4 (Oct 22, 2003)

Interesting model shift/changes.

Looks like they almost "crippled" the 12" iBook to keep it from getting too competitive with the 12" PB.

- same processor spec as 12" PB (only in 14" model, 12" model max at 800 mhz)
- half the L2 cache (just when it was clear that upping the L2 cache to 512k improved 12" PB performance
- "faster" system bus than original iBook) but memory still slower than new 12" PB
- not sure about graphic card performance
- optional Bluetooth
- no Superdrive
- no DVI output

However, the look is pretty much a PB 12" in white.

Do I regret the purchase of my new PB 12"? Not in the least... 

Cheers.


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## yoshi (Oct 22, 2003)

Hey All, I posted elsewhere the specs and all, which are available at apple.com/ibook.

They are good stuff!

http://www.machowto.com/viewtopic.php?p=60#60 for more info.

FINALLY!


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## dani++ (Oct 22, 2003)

Cool. Now all models are G4 or G5 right?


That makes for a more complete and consistent product line.

In fact, now the iBooks are affordable little speedy machines (definitely kicking my CUBE's ass which is still usable in many tasks).

dani++


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## Jason (Oct 22, 2003)

hmmmm wonder what this does to battery life and heat 

i still prefer a g3 in my ibook


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 22, 2003)

Well, from what I've been reading, this processor isn't a TRUE G4 -- it's the G3 with AltiVec instruction capability that's been talked about for so long, which, esssentially, makes it a G4.  I don't know the specs -- what revision processor is it?

...but those prices are DAMN attractive.  Was thinking about asking Santa for a laptop for Xmas, now I've got to take a closer look at the iBooks!


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## uoba (Oct 22, 2003)

YOu old Dwarf Jason


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## chemistry_geek (Oct 22, 2003)

I was kind of hoping for the AltiVeced G3 (PPC 750 VX) coming from IBM.  I can't believe Apple is still supporting Motorola and purchasing their processors.  Let them die!


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## Ripcord (Oct 22, 2003)

I likes the new iBooks =)

However, after spending the last several minutes in the Quicktime VR gallery, I thought I'd gone colorblind.  What is Apple *thinking*?  They seem to be intentionally trying to make their products appear as dull and lifeless as possible?  Everything there that wasn't already a dull grey appears to have been photographed or photoshopped into looking as if it is a dull grey (I've never seen the 23" Cinema display look so sickly).


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## Giaguara (Oct 22, 2003)

There is already an existing thread about this.

http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37666

Great though.


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## pwharff (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chemistry_geek _
> *I was kind of hoping for the AltiVeced G3 (PPC 750 VX) coming from IBM.  I can't believe Apple is still supporting Motorola and purchasing their processors.  Let them die! *



As, ElDiabloConCaca mentioned, this is most likely a G4 from IBM, basically a G3 with AltiVec.


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *There is already an existing thread about this.
> 
> http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37666
> ...



Umm, same thread, Gia


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pwharff _
> *As, ElDiabloConCaca mentioned, this is most likely a G4 from IBM, basically a G3 with AltiVec. *



I don't really see any logic in that. It'd be a complete waste of resources. Where's the sense of developing an entirely new processor just for _one_ computer, when Motorola already have a great one? Developing and mass producing microprocessors isn't exactly free.


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## Giaguara (Oct 22, 2003)

Now the iBooks look a very good deal again, and for most of the users. 

I had probably the best timing selling my g3, and I don't regret getting the PB instead. Lets hope we get updates from someone who gets that candy (iBook) now so we can see how its battery life etc are. 

If the iBooks had optional super drive, those would be perfect for even many who lean towards a powerbook.


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## chemistry_geek (Oct 22, 2003)

Slashdot has the article here:

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.p...hread&tid=137&tid=179&tid=180&tid=185&tid=190

and someone there mentioned that the "G4" in these new iBooks are the AltiVec'd G3.

I certainly hope this is the case.


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## sjb2016 (Oct 22, 2003)

Literally, was going to buy the 12" Powerbook at the end of the week.  I'm a pro-sumer buy.  Use some programs (iMovie, Final Cut Express, iTunes) that will benefit from the AltiVec, but don't need DVI out and the like.  Going to save myself some dough.  This is AWESOME.  I love Apple.


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## Giaguara (Oct 22, 2003)

Cool, sjb!

Let us know your impressions when you have this ... and how the battery life etc are.

I am excited about these iBooks. Even when the Powerbook will arrive in a few hours. 

It'd be great if there was also a "kid" model of laptops. Lets say still a G3 iBook with a bit lower specs .. but that would still satisfy more than better the needs of e.g. school kids.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *I don't really see any logic in that. It'd be a complete waste of resources. Where's the sense of developing an entirely new processor just for one computer, when Motorola already have a great one? Developing and mass producing microprocessors isn't exactly free. *



The AltiVec'd G3 isn't a brand new processor that Apple sanctioned -- it's been in development for quite some time now.  

If I remember correctly, at the beginning of the whole G4 revolution both IBM and Motorola were developing G4 processors... and Apple decided to go with Motorola.  The AltiVec instructions on both chips were similar, but not the exact same.  I think IBM abandoned the G4 idea and focused on bringing AltiVec-style acceleration to the G3 processor recently, which we see here in the G4 iBook.  All Apple had to do was buy a bunch of these and slap them in the iBooks, make some minor tweaks and put them on the market.


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## ApeintheShell (Oct 22, 2003)

This is a good transition to the pro line and a lot better idea then previous posts of it being: 500 mhz G4

People were waiting for G4 iBooks and Apple provided. Plus, it was needed for better Panther performance right?

Here is how the laptop line looks now:

iBook : 800MHZ, 933MHZ, 1GHZ
Powerbook : 1GHZ, 1.25 GHZ, 1.33 GHZ

Puurfect


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## Ricky (Oct 22, 2003)

Goodbye, G3.  

My brother's going to be ticked; he just got a G3 iBook a couple of months back.


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca _
> *The AltiVec'd G3 isn't a brand new processor that Apple sanctioned -- it's been in development for quite some time now.
> 
> If I remember correctly, at the beginning of the whole G4 revolution both IBM and Motorola were developing G4 processors... and Apple decided to go with Motorola.  The AltiVec instructions on both chips were similar, but not the exact same.  I think IBM abandoned the G4 idea and focused on bringing AltiVec-style acceleration to the G3 processor recently, which we see here in the G4 iBook.  All Apple had to do was buy a bunch of these and slap them in the iBooks, make some minor tweaks and put them on the market. *



Still doesn't make any sense to me 
What's the point? Paying IBM more for a processor that's technically crippled compared to the Motorola G4? Nope, I believe these iBooks are using the same nice little PPC7457 chips as the pbooks.


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

There's nothing about that imaginary processor on IBM's website, btw.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dani++ _
> *(definitely kicking my CUBE's ass which is still usable in many tasks).
> 
> dani++ *



Fellow Cube user


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## chevy (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *Still doesn't make any sense to me
> What's the point? Paying IBM more for a processor that's technically crippled compared to the Motorola G4? Nope, I believe these iBooks are using the same nice little PPC7457 chips as the pbooks. *



They are probably using the 7455 with 256 kB cache (the 7457 has 512 kB cache). My only concerns are heat and battery autonomy. For the rest these are nice machines.


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## voice- (Oct 22, 2003)

Well, seems my PB buy was badly timed. I'd rather get an iBook had I known they were this close? But why waste time regretting it when I can rather strike people with envy of my new aBook?

I might be able to convince my girlfriend to get one of those 12" iBooks now...just gotta tell her she can play Warcraft on it


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## fryke (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm pretty sure there is no PPC 750VX in these models. IBM has not yet released the PPC 750GX which was expected to get into the iBooks (and obviously didn't). The VX was a rumoured development and might still come true, maybe for the next round of iBooks (sold as a G4, of course). Let's take a look at the technical documents for the iBooks when they come out...


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## Giaguara (Oct 22, 2003)

Voice, look on the machines. What would you have to regret? The new iBooks are great, but aluBook is an aluBook ...


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## dave17lax (Oct 22, 2003)

Either way you slice it, they should get out of the moto deal. Motorolla is just not the buddy you want to have supplying your processors. Anyone know anything about their spinoff of the processor division?


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## fryke (Oct 22, 2003)

Well, the 7447 currently used in PowerBooks are quite good Motorola processors, I think. If they can deliver the 7457-RM soon, this would be quite a boost for the PowerBooks in January, and the iBooks could then use the 7447 at 1.0 and 1.25 GHz. No reason to forget Motorola just yet. Depends on whether IBM can deliver a 750GX at decent rates in time, though. But I rather see IBM concentrate on the G5 and G5+ development if Motorola can keep up the G4 development.


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## nb3004 (Oct 22, 2003)

> I might be able to convince my girlfriend to get one of those 12" iBooks now...just gotta tell her she can play Warcraft on it



lucky


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## BJL (Oct 22, 2003)

Not only are Mac's now G4 or better across the line, but every model now has USB 2 except the bargain basement eMac. That could make accessorising a bit easier and cheaper.


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## voice- (Oct 22, 2003)

*If they can deliver the 7457-RM soon, this would be quite a boost for the PowerBooks in January*[/QUOTE] 
Agreed, but the problem with Motorola has never been the processors, but that development seems to go DAMN slow over there. If they coudl deliver new ones more rapidly, I'd love them, but they have lagged behind.


> _Originally posted by nb3004 _
> *lucky   *


I know  She's great!


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## nb3004 (Oct 22, 2003)

omg instead of going out to a movie you could just play lan deathmatches, now that would be romantic


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## Arden (Oct 22, 2003)

I think we will see Motorola chips for every processor revision of the G4, and Apple will slowly drop them as they move products to the G5 in the next few years.


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## ksv (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *I think we will see Motorola chips for every processor revision of the G4, and Apple will slowly drop them as they move products to the G5 in the next few years. *



Slowly is the right word. It took 4 years for the G3 to die


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## powermac (Oct 22, 2003)

I just bought a iBook 900 mhz the other day. This is the second time this happen, first time, Apple annouced the 14 inch screen and now the G4 processor. LOL. I don't mind the G3 for the use I have for my iBook.


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## Jason (Oct 22, 2003)

i would see if they can take it back


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## voice- (Oct 22, 2003)

Stap the screen, take it back and say it's been that way since you bought it, but you've been too busy to stop by 'till then. Have them take it back and give you a refund, then buy the new one...


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## bookem (Oct 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *Fellow Cube user  *




Cubes rule


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## Arden (Oct 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *Slowly is the right word. It took 4 years for the G3 to die  *


 No, it took 6 years for the G3 to die.  We bought the computer I'm typing this on in February 1998, and even then that was after it had been put through its paces a little to make sure there were no major bugs in it.  So the G5's made their debut (from Apple at least) in late 1997... and, oh look, it's late 2003!

And it still feels like summer here!


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## Arden (Oct 23, 2003)

Voice:  You're going to hell, you do know that, right?


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## voice- (Oct 23, 2003)

So I've been told, arden


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## ksv (Oct 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *No, it took 6 years for the G3 to die.  We bought the computer I'm typing this on in February 1998, and even then that was after it had been put through its paces a little to make sure there were no major bugs in it.  So the G5's made their debut (from Apple at least) in late 1997... and, oh look, it's late 2003!
> 
> And it still feels like summer here!   *



Yea, I meant from the date the G4 was announced. 1999-2003 is 4 years


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## Randman (Oct 23, 2003)

It's been a very long summer.


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## Vard (Oct 23, 2003)

I think we're missing the bigger picture here...

I didn't notice it before, but I was thinking about it this morning.  

Who does bookem know?  Bookem started this thread about an hour before they were updated by saying that he/she 'heard' the iBooks were about to be updated....what gives.

Sounds like we have an insider, or at least someone who knows someone...oh wait, that's all of us!

Later,
Eddie


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## ksv (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea bookem, you aren't getting away with this one ::alien::


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## dracolich (Oct 23, 2003)

> Either way you slice it, they should get out of the moto deal. Motorolla is just not the buddy you want to have supplying your processors. Anyone know anything about their spinoff of the processor division?



Almost an year ago I heard about ST Micro's interest in buying all the chip-manufacturing and chip-R&D activities of Motorola...

BTW, now I'll be trying to convince my girlfrined to sell her 500 Mhz iceBook... but what about the look? The new iBooks are all plastic, and frankly do not have that "expensive" look anymore... that's reserved to aluBooks.
It's really a pity I can't buy a 12" 1Ghz iBook...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *No, it took 6 years for the G3 to die.  We bought the computer I'm typing this on in February 1998, and even then that was after it had been put through its paces a little to make sure there were no major bugs in it.  So the G5's made their debut (from Apple at least) in late 1997... and, oh look, it's late 2003!
> 
> And it still feels like summer here!   *



Well, that's because the G3 was a DAMN good processor.  When it debuted, Apple was touting it as the Intel-killer... remember the snail commercial?  Remember the burning Intel space-suit man?  The G3 had real promise in it... and I believe that the G4 had real promise in it too.

The first G4s were right on track with their advertised speeds (overlooking that annoying 50MHz speed bump) and were still VERY competetive with the Intel counterparts.  I believe that Apple didn't forsee Motorola screwing the advancement of the G4 so bad, and once it got back on track, Intel was whooping our collective asses in terms of raw processing speed.

The G4 does make a wonderful mobile processor, which I think comes from the fact that Motorola would rather spend their time making embedded and mobile processors instead of bigger, better, faster processors.

IBM, on the other hand, has a real winner with the G5.  I think we'll see the G4 in mobile products for some time to come (not gonna make any predictions here, though) and the G5 I think will blossom in to one awesome desktop processor.


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## voice- (Oct 23, 2003)

Wahoo! My GF really wants one now, and I'll touch it when it comes (will be a while thou, money required for purchase).
She was turned off by the non-illuminated keyboard, but battery time, wireless network and "Warcraft ability" made up for it by far...so some time after christmas she'll order a 14" 933MHz G4 iBook


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## Arden (Oct 26, 2003)

Remember, folks, it took about 2 years to get the G4 chip into anything except the Powermac.  I'm betting it will take about as long to get G5 chips into much, at least a year for the Powerbooks.  The G4 will not be dead for several years.


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## ksv (Oct 27, 2003)

Apple just posted developer tech docs for the iBook G4, which confirm its processor to be the PPC7457. 

http://developer.apple.com/document...er_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/iBookG4/index.html

Oh, the PPC7457 is a Motorola processor, isn't it?


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## fryke (Oct 27, 2003)

You sure? I didn't read 7457 anywhere... New PowerBooks have the 7447. Cache size sounds like the iBooks use a 7455.


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## fryke (Oct 27, 2003)

There's only a link in the back of the document that _links_ to Motorola's latest G4 pages (7457/7447), which clearly says that the 7457 has 512K of L2 on-chip cache. The iBook has 256K (7455). So I guess it's just a false URL used in the tech document.


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## ksv (Oct 27, 2003)

fryke said:
			
		

> There's only a link in the back of the document that _links_ to Motorola's latest G4 pages (7457/7447), which clearly says that the 7457 has 512K of L2 on-chip cache. The iBook has 256K (7455). So I guess it's just a false URL used in the tech document.



There is a link to this page under Supplemental Documentation: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653 , which is specifically about the PPC7457. I believe they mean to link to the PPC7447 though, which is a better fitted processor for the iBook than the PPC7455.


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## fryke (Oct 28, 2003)

The 7447 also has 512K of L2 cache on chip. So, no: It's quite clearly a 7455.


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## ksv (Oct 28, 2003)

fryke said:
			
		

> The 7447 also has 512K of L2 cache on chip. So, no: It's quite clearly a 7455.



There's no way they'd use the 7455 now, with the availability of the 7447/7457, which are more than 3.5 times more power efficient.
They could put a G5 in the thing with less heat dissipation.

You know, Motorola's docs also say the highest PPC7455s are 1 GHz, although Apple have these running at 1.42 GHz. Apple have special designed chips to suit their needs.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2003)

Power efficiency doesn't factor into this.  The iBooks are cheap, and Apple would probably place an older processor into the iBooks to keep the price point down.  Now that new methods of chip fabrication have come about, the older chips get easier and cheaper to produce.

It's highly likely that Apple used an older G4 processor in the iBook.


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## ksv (Oct 28, 2003)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Power efficiency doesn't factor into this.  The iBooks are cheap, and Apple would probably place an older processor into the iBooks to keep the price point down.  Now that new methods of chip fabrication have come about, the older chips get easier and cheaper to produce.
> 
> It's highly likely that Apple used an older G4 processor in the iBook.



Power efficiency is a major factor in any laptop. Especially the current iBook design, because of its relatively small battery and inefficient cooling. It's pretty obvious the current iBooks aren't made for processors dissipating as much heat as the last titanium PowerBooks. A magnesium frame with a plastic shell isn't that much of a heat sink.


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## fryke (Oct 28, 2003)

I'm quite sure that the 7455 that was used in Titanium PowerBooks at up to 1 GHz is the chip used in the new iBooks. Those processors didn't seem much too hot back then, they don't seem now. There are A and B variants of 7455, too, btw., and I also think that there is a lower power variant that is used in the iBooks (and was in the TiBooks). You are aware that the 1 GHz PowerMacs needed quite a bit more cooling than the TiBooks at 1 GHz, right?

We'll just have to wait until someone takes apart a new iBook (and some Japanese guys will, as I've said about the new aluBooks before and was right...) to definitely know, but the cache size gives it away, really.


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## jhawk28 (Oct 28, 2003)

If you look at the xbench benkmarks, it lists the 7455 as the processor.


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## ksv (Oct 28, 2003)

jhawk28 said:
			
		

> If you look at the xbench benkmarks, it lists the 7455 as the processor.



http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/ibook_g4/ibook_g4_review.html#storytop


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## chevy (Nov 9, 2003)

According to http://aberco.free.fr/ibook/dedan.html
The 7445B is used in the iBook G4. It's a lower power version of the 7445, similar to the 7455 without cache access.


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## bookem (Nov 10, 2003)

ksv said:
			
		

> Yea bookem, you aren't getting away with this one ::alien::



Bookem slowly lowers his shades, and creeps out the back door rather shiftily


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## fryke (Nov 10, 2003)

Just the proof. ;-)

http://aberco.free.fr/ibook/dedan.html

It's actually a 7445B (which is the 7455B without L3-Cache option).


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