# Can't afford the $75 diagnostic fee ....



## VirtualTracy (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi, I have an iBook G3 Clamshell 466MHz and would like to know if there is a definitive way a novice like myself could determine if the iBook has a defective Logicboard or HD?

There is no clicking coming from the HD but I can't boot since I tried to install 3rd Party Ram.  The system is Panther and believe me I've tried everything possible that I found in my research over the past week to no avail.

The Applestore techs told me on the phone, that it is likely the logicboard/HD but I feel I almost know this iBook inside/out and am curious if it's easy to spot these hardware failures.

At the moment the iBooks HD has been zeroed out using TDM and my intel Mac.


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## Giaguara (Oct 3, 2007)

Reset PRAM, pmu, and try to see if you can get it to boot without that 3rd party RAM installed.
Insert disc 1 that came with the computer, boot with alt to get to Apple hardware test, run it looped (ctrl-L to loop) for a few hours at least.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 3, 2007)

Giaguara said:


> Reset PRAM, pmu, and try to see if you can get it to boot without that 3rd party RAM installed.
> Insert disc 1 that came with the computer, boot with alt to get to Apple hardware test, run it looped (ctrl-L to loop) for a few hours at least.



Hi Guaguara, Thanks for your help but this lil' iBook won't respond to anything at all .... and I'm sure I've tried just about everything I've gleaned from my searching/googling over that past week... PMU reset, PRAM zapping, Option key at startup to select boot option, removing keyboard then booting up, taking _any_ RAM module out, press C at startup to boot from Full Retail Panther disc.  

I don't have access to a PPC mac to try installing Panther using TDM/Firewire.

Strangely enough what I haven't been able to do is boot into single user mode.  That's Shift at startup isn't it ... 

What I do have to do though is reset the PMU each and every time I want to try something .... otherwise it's a black screen.  I've reset that PMU a gazillion times now.


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## SGilbert (Oct 3, 2007)

I think that resetting the PMU more than several times "kills" the PRAM internal battery.  Replace it.


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## nixgeek (Oct 3, 2007)

If I'm not mistaken, I believe these iBooks use the main power battery as the PMU battery as well.  So if the battery is dead or close to it, then you'll have issues where the iBook will not retain the correct date and time or it just won't startup at all.

I got the following link from Low End Mac's clamshell iBook section:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58445


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## SGilbert (Oct 3, 2007)

SGilbert said:


> I think that resetting the PMU more than several times "kills" the PRAM internal battery.  Replace it.



Just checked with "Mactracker" There is no internal battery--Sorry.


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## eric2006 (Oct 3, 2007)

Is the computer turning on at all? If so, what screen does it go to?


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 3, 2007)

Thank you very much eric2006 for your time!

The iBook does power on and goes to the flashing folder/? and if I turn it off and power on again it goes to a black screen so I reset PMU to get it to respond again.

I know the FireWire Port functions if that helps.

I'm quite frustrated with this 'cos I don't have access to a PPC mac.


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## eric2006 (Oct 3, 2007)

Was the system unplugged, and without a battery when you replaced memory? This sounds like a bad logic board, given that two bootable devices are not working (CD, Hard drive), and they appear to be functional.

If the logic board is bad, you can
a. Buy a new logic board at full price ($229+), third party
b. Buy a used logic board 
c. Buy a used clamshell (cheaper?)


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 3, 2007)

eric2006 said:


> Was the system unplugged, and without a battery when you replaced memory? This sounds like a bad logic board, given that two bootable devices are not working (CD, Hard drive), and they appear to be functional.
> 
> If the logic board is bad, you can
> a. Buy a new logic board at full price ($229+), third party
> ...



Thanks for those links eric2006 I didn't know I could possibly pick up a 2nd hand Logicboard fairly cheaply .... and I have been keeping my eyes out for a cheap one on eBay but I usually surf eBay Aust.

I had seen the high cost of a new on but hadn't know that there were so many being sold on ebay.

Something I hadn't mentioned before is that I'd overlooked that first step of taking out the battery, so while the iBook was powered off as I installed the RAM, the battery (albeit a dead one) was still installed.

I was told that this wasn't really a hangable offence but do you think it is?

Also, this iBook belongs to a friend and it was me who convinced her to first upgrade to Panther, then upgrade the RAM.  I haven't told her the bad news yet but I'm dreading it and this is why I'm so keen to troubleshoot this so much.

I realise there are only 2 things left to try:

1) Try installing OS9 (I don't hold much luck but I gotta try it).
2) Try to install an OS using Firewire Target Disc Mode from a PPC.

I picked up OS9 from eBay (Retail version) and expect that to arrive any day and the iBook is currently at the MacStore where they will try to see if it's going to allow an OS install via Firewire/PPC mac.

So, I'll know soon enough whether or not I'm up for a replacement 2nd hand iBook clamshell.


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## eric2006 (Oct 4, 2007)

It's possible that having the battery in while memory was being installed harmed things. The only reason I mention it is because I had a similar experience with a TiBook.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 4, 2007)

Did you damage the logicboard? What was the final outcome?


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## eric2006 (Oct 4, 2007)

The TiBook would not do anything - no screen, no sound, nothing. However, this TiBook wasn't working well before I opened it up, so I can't say for sure if that was the issue. One memory stick was bad.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 4, 2007)

Do you know of another models logic board that will work in the Clammie?  Say a 400 or 500MHz, like from a lombard or Pismo?


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## eric2006 (Oct 4, 2007)

The clamshell has a rather unique case, so I would think that you'd need a clamshell logic board. That's a firewire model, so older speeds (non-firewire) may not work. If it really is toast, it may be cheaper to replace with a different kind of mac - the white iBook G3s are getting cheap.

Have you verified the connections, both of the hard drive and the CD-ROM drive? It may be helpfull to install OS X from a PPC mac.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 4, 2007)

I just bought a 366MHz with Firewire/320MB RAM on eBay for $150AUS .... although they can sell a little cheaper in the US we have to pay a fortune for postage so hopefully there will be a happy ending to this story.


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## eric2006 (Oct 5, 2007)

You may be able to sell the broken machine on eBay for a good price (if you can't fix it). Broken machines sell for absurd prices, especially if they have good components.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

Clamshells sell for an absurd price over here ... I think the 466MHz model was bought for about $350AUS so if this 366MHz works fine it'll be all good!

I saw a 300MHz with 512MB of RAM go for about $120AUS the other day .... it may of had an Airport card too .....


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

Well it's official  .... just collected the Clamshell and the tech guy confirmed that the logic board was indeed cactus ...  Thanks for everybodies 20cents worth


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## eric2006 (Oct 5, 2007)

The memory/HDD is probably salvageable. Just make sure the battery is out when you install memory.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

eric2006 said:


> The memory/HDD is probably salvageable. Just make sure the battery is out when you install memory.



Lol ... once bitten twice shy!  I'll buy a 2nd hand logic board, probably the 366mhz from the link you gave me ... guess I better watch out I don't accidentally pick up a logic board from a Firewire-less Clamshell ....

It's gonna be fun and games fitting it ... I've seen the iFixit tutorial and it seems like a job and a half!  I might just practise taking it apart so far, then rebuilding it before moving a step closer to the logic board.  If I went straight for the heart I know I may get stuck with fitting it all back together.


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## eric2006 (Oct 5, 2007)

Just make sure you ground yourself before taking it apart, and, for god's sake, don't loose the screws!


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

I'll buy an anti-static wrist band cos I don't feel confident at the moment ... but I've plenty of time on my hands so I will be super-planning this one and thank god for the iFixit tutorials!


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

Do you know the difference between PC66/PC100/PC133 RAM?  Are they all basically the same ... that's what I was told by someone on another forum ...


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## eric2006 (Oct 5, 2007)

No, they are not the same. PCxxx designates the speed of the RAM, I believe. Some systems will work with different speeds, but Macs are picky. According to Crucial, your Clamshell (366) uses PC133 RAM, and earlier models use PC100 RAM.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

OWC has a cheaper 512mb module for the Clammie 466MHz and it's PC100 ... it's a lil' confusing

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/100SO512328L/


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 5, 2007)

eric2006 said:


> No, they are not the same. PCxxx designates the speed of the RAM, I believe. Some systems will work with different speeds, but Macs are picky. According to Crucial, your Clamshell (366) uses PC133 RAM, and earlier models use PC100 RAM.



OWC has a 512mb RAM module which is fairly cheap but it's PC100 ... this is a lil' confusing

_512MB PC100 CL2 2-2-2 LowProfile 1.25 inch(non-stacked)2-2-2 So-DIMM for iBook G3 Models_


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 9, 2007)

Well you wouldn't believe it (or you might) ... I found a bootable OS 9 disc and the iBook G3 accepted it and I was able to boot up from this disc ....

Now, as I'd zeroed out the HD using Target Disc Mode, there is a problem with the installation not being able to continue as there is no volume to select for the installation and the OS 9 installer is asking me to mount one ... how would I do this?


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## eric2006 (Oct 9, 2007)

Try the instructions here for formatting a disk:
http://www.ehow.com/how_1000386_format-drive-mac.html

Alternatively, try formating via TDM with the OS 9 support option ticked.


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## VirtualTracy (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks eric2006, I've got it all sorted out now .... the casualty is the Apple RAM that was already installed before I decided to do the RAM upgrade .... so it's just the onboard 64mb for now until I get some more RAM for the upgrade to Panther again.  When I do, I will make sure I take the battery out!


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