# Who wants Ed removed as administrator?



## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

The other night I spent a half hour of my time replying to some comments made by another member and today I return to find them cut with the simple explanation that Ed didn't like them.

I come to this place to post my opinions about things. If people disagree with me fine, but axing my posts just because I don't like what people might be saying about Apple is absolutely ridiculous. 

I realize the administration reserves the right to cut posts but I've never seen so much censorship in my life. 

I've heard lots of rumors about Ed in here and frankly I don't know why people put up with this BS. Either Ed calms down, leaves,  or I will start my own forum for the Mac Community where this sort of unjustified cencorship doesn't take place. 


Best regards,

me.


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

I would like two things from you, MacLuv:

1) Please give EXACT reference of what you're talking about and post here the exact URL of the censored post, with original post and new one.

2) Please leave an option in your poll saying "NO, I want Ed Spruiell to stay THE SAME and to act just as he did in the past". I think this would be more fair.

I hope you understand why I am asking those two things, esp. point #2.

Also, you say you never saw so much censorship in your life. I saw more, I can tell you. Ed is a RATIONAL and applies RATIONAL censor to these forums. But again, to debate this point, I'd like to read your original post and its censored version please. You may have heard a lot of rumors, that's the point of this forum , and you should know one thing : rumors are what they are. RUMORS.

I personnally think your reaction of creating your own Mac forum with no censorship bla bla bla is, in my humble opinion, childish, irrational and very much a tantrum. I think the same of your 'me' signature, but I expect this one of being a stupid joke.


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## MightyAtom (Nov 1, 2002)

How about a "*NO*" option for this poll or is this just a personal attack at Ed?

Personally I think Ed does an excelent job, he chooses to do this on a voluntary basis out of his own time. He is simply doing his job moderating this forum according to the rules you agreed to when you joined.


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

I just asked for the same thing, MightyAtom. First application of freedom of speech, reading what others wrote. Not willing to offense you, bud .


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *I would like two things from you, MacLuv:
> 
> 1) Please give EXACT reference of what you're talking about and post here the exact URL of the censored post, with original post and new one.
> ...



Oh, I should be fair now? Well, considering a post that I spend a half hour typing up was simply deleted becuase somebody felt like it isn't really fair now, is it? As a member of this forum, I contribute my opinions in hopes to improve the quality of our experience here... if I find another members' comments completely out of line I have a tendancy to be sarcastic but never rude or immoral. And I certainly don't need to be moderated, thankyou. And forgive me Ed, if you're reading this, but just because you are the moderator of this forum doesn't neccessarily mean that there isn't room for improvement on your part. I would gladly post the reference to the post that got axed but I can't see--because it got axed.

I'm going to say this once. The goal of the moderator or administrator in any of these forums is really to make sure that nothing EXTREME is going on... to keep the peace... a little sarcasm or debate or foolishness is common and at times healthy... some people in here are allowed to post the most ludacrist things regarding Apple and yet if a rebuttal has a few sarcastic comments within it--snip snip. 



> *
> Also, you say you never saw so much censorship in your life. I saw more, I can tell you. Ed is a RATIONAL and applies RATIONAL censor to these forums. But again, to debate this point, I'd like to read your original post and its censored version please. You may have heard a lot of rumors, that's the point of this forum , and you should know one thing : rumors are what they are. RUMORS.
> *



You've seen more censorship? Where, in China? Like I said, it's fine if the moderators and admins of a forum reserve the right to edit posts, whatever, but for the sake of the community one must procede with diligence. Surely if someone like Ed was on the bench, we'd all be fined for chewing gum in class. That's how I feel about it, and I have a right to the way I feel. If you don't like the way I express how I feel, I'm sorry, but that's this wonderful human phenomenon called a PERSONALITY. It makes the world an interesting place to live in when we can all express ourselves. Try it sometime, you might like it.



> *
> I personnally think your reaction of creating your own Mac forum with no censorship bla bla bla is, in my humble opinion, childish, irrational and very much a tantrum. I think the same of your 'me' signature, but I expect this one of being a stupid joke. *



Okay, why wouldn't I start up my own forum? The software is free and I have the server space and the technical know-how... what's the big deal? And what's irratioonal about wanting to have a forum that truly welcomes opinions without censorship? I'm not talking about full-on Usenet flame wars here, but discussion over the internet. 

Really, the proper protocol for Ed to delete a post should have been this: Five or so people directly complain about the post, Ed follows up and finds out what the problem is, and then takes the neccessary actions. It's really simple. But just deleting someone's post on the grounds that it's "immoral" to this community is within itself insane.

As I've said before, I'm here to talk things Apple, not moderate the moderator. This is the last post I'm going to post about this post, if you know what I mean. I hope that people realize that I'm human too, I get angry when I'm censored unjustly, and this is my way of expressing that.  And once again, don't test my reserve about opening my own site for this stuff... I'm sure the macosx admin wouldn't want to lose all his/her members to a cooler site 

now, back to the bitchin'....


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

> Okay, why wouldn't I start up my own forum?



I never told you not to start your own forum. I just gave my opinion on how I'd interpret this act.

You still haven't answered my two questions, which would help me -us ?- to develop on what happened in the "Apple losing faith" thread.

And I've seen more censorship in your own country. Two ERASMUS friends expelled from Melbourne school for supposedly revisionist ideas.


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *
> And I've seen more censorship in your own country. Two ERASMUS friends expelled from Melbourne school for supposedly revisionist ideas. *



Um, yeah, well considering i live in NEW ZEALAND and Melbourne is in AUSTRALIA which is a totally different country, this doesn't really apply to my country, now does it?

And stop forcing me to come back and post to this stupid thread becuase you can't get your Geography right...


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

Sorry for the geography part. This was intended to be a joke, you see ? I guess humor does not cross borders. Explanation, thus: it's a French joke to say NZ and AUS are same place.

I can understand you have no humor, though. Still, I had two questions for you, and you don't seem to want to answer them. I'll repost them, who knows: 

---
1) Please give EXACT reference of what you're talking about and post here the exact URL of the censored post, with original post and new one. 

2) Please leave an option in your poll saying "NO, I want Ed Spruiell to stay THE SAME and to act just as he did in the past". I think this would be more fair. 
---

I can understand you don't want to add a 'NO' option to this thread. It's very much your style. I can imagine your own forum will be as free and open-minded as this poll you made. LOL


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toast _
> *Sorry for the geography part. This was intended to be a joke, you see ? I guess humor does not cross borders. Explanation, thus: it's a French joke to say NZ and AUS are same place.
> *



Actually I think you're embarrased because you fall into the category of people that don't realize New Zealand is not part of Australia. Don't worry, your not alone... 98 out of every 100 humans on Earth usually make the same assumption. We've heard it a million times. To use your nationality as an excuse for your ignorance is really not becoming of your country, either, or is it? Of course, I (hope) you take that as a joke.



> *
> I can understand you have no humor, though. Still, I had two questions for you, and you don't seem to want to answer them. I'll repost them, who knows:
> 
> ---
> ...



Right. So now we have a post where I'm getting bashed again. Should I pull out my magic gumdrops and bite my tounge? Will Ed delete this post? I'm really getting tired of this. One more time: I don't have to give you the EXACT reference of anything. And as far as the poll goes, if you don't like it, write your own poll. If you don't like my sense of humor, fine. It's the internet.


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## chevy (Nov 1, 2002)

I want Ed to continue its excellent work. Thanks Ed. And thanks MacLuv to give me the opportunity to confirm that I appreciate Ed.


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

Well said, Chevy.



> Hey MacLuv :
> *98 out of every 100 humans on Earth usually make the same assumption.*


I hope you understand that's exactly what's making it a joke, Mac. Yes, I'll take it as a new-zealandish joke.

I don't really understand the rest of your post. I wasn't bashing, just asking for some reference so I could read your org. post. Similarly, I was just ASKING for some third option in your poll, aiming at ameliorating it. You are free not to add this last NO option, of course, though it reduces the chances of yourself opening a free forum elsewhere to zero.

I'm glad we're antipods, bud.


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## hulkaros (Nov 1, 2002)

...Deja vu anyone?

Ed does a GREAT job as a moderator and I hope he will continue to do so! If and when I will act in a way that Ed thinks that is bad/wrong/whatever, he is free to bane me if he feels so! No hard feelings and power to him!

Also, my thanks to Ed when I got a bit carried away for putting me back on the right track... Ed thanks again  for doing so


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a room full of AA members and ED was the group sponsor...


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## toast (Nov 1, 2002)

Now you know. Bye bye !


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## cybergoober (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a room full of AA members and ED was the group sponsor... *



Sure you can. (/American(only?) joke: Mr. Rogers reference)

Most of your comments in this thread have been somewhat intelligent up to this point. But this is just ridiculous. Is this the old "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" logic? Basically you're bashing everyone that doesn't agree with you, because they don't agree with you? That's a bit immature in my humble opinion. If you don't like it here then just leave. Noone's forcing you to stay.



> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *And stop forcing me to come back and post to this stupid thread becuase you can't get your Geography right...*



LOL. Now people are *forcing* you to post here.

OK, look. Here's my take on this. You feel that Ed handled your situation improperly. Rather than being the bigger man and handling this properly (ie- PM Ed explaining how you feel, maybe even PM Admin as well) you post a public poll asking if Ed should be forced to step down? The resolution of these types of problems should usually start off back-channel. In short, how is what you're doing here any worse than what you perceive was done to you?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 1, 2002)

I, personally, think Ed does a dencent job of moderating this forum.  It ain't spectacularly, sparklingly wonderful and perfect, but it's more than adequate.  

I'd have to actually read the post that got axed in order to formulate an opinion on whether or not Ed was justified in removing it, but I've never had a reason to distrust Ed or his decisions.

In light of this, though, I think it needs to be brought to both posters' and moderators' attention that both of those positions are tough to fill.  It's tough to be a contributing poster here and dole out technical know-how free of charge, occasionally bumping into some really rude people.  It's also difficult as hell to be a moderator, and have the burden of filtering out sensitive material, and possibly encountering a situation such as this one.

At any rate, I think we need to keep in mind that this place is chock FULL of opinions.  And I think it's up to the moderators, such as Ed, to make absolute SURE that the material they are removing would be considered downright offensive to the MAJORITY of members here, and not just a few... a few people will ALWAYS be offended about everything, no matter where you go.  Also, care should be taken to take an unbiased view of the "offensive" material, and Ed and the other moderators need to make sure that they're removing the post for the good of the boards, and not because they are PERSONALLY offended by the post.


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## themacko (Nov 1, 2002)

Yeah, Ed's a real hard-ass.


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## terran74 (Nov 1, 2002)

I have a poll:

Yes: macluv should pipe down and leave the forum
Yes: Ed should kick macluv off the forum and remove his account.
Yes: macluv should not be allowed to post on MacOSX.com.
No: macluv should be allowed to post on MacOSX.com.

How is that for a free speech?  This has been a waste of bits on my screen.


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## plastic (Nov 1, 2002)

Thanks Ed, you have been a good mod here. And thanks for letting me push to the limits once in a while. And no, I don't want Ed removed. My vote : Leave Ed alone. It is not easy being a Mod in any forums.


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## wiz (Nov 1, 2002)

well where's ED?


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## senne (Nov 1, 2002)

i want macluv to leave....


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## Browni (Nov 1, 2002)

I know what a hard job it is moderating a forum, i do it myself.

Ed it a prety good mod, at times a bit conterverishal but hese ok.

Macluv : pipe down 

B

(doggy spelling i know  )


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## iMan (Nov 1, 2002)

Well, I think that Ed should go back to a user, not because I disagree with what he's doing, or don't think he's doing a good job, I just think that he would enjoy life a bit more, not having to police the forum and take all the all the hatred from people affected by it. I've been on this forum for some time now, I don't post alot but I read with ineterest the post with substance and thing that are informative. But latley this forum has gone from a mac forum to talk about 'freedom of speach', 'democracy', trolling, flaming...  don't find much interesting stuff to read any more , things realated to my mac.  I find discussing apples right and wrong doing interesting if people could just agree to disagree, it doesn't have to become personal just because some one dosen't agree with you.

To Ed.
Let go, it's not worth it, I remeber you before you became a moderator, you posted alot and they were posts with substance, interesting reading. Now you have to play police and it can't be fun, taking all the anger from people that have been affected. Now I only see you post when you have to defend your actions or when you have to tell people to stick to the rules. I'd like the old Ed back. Let someone els do the moderating for a while, take a vacation, but its your decition to make.

To every one that want this forum to go back to what it once was: Ignore the peronal attacks, don't respond to it, respond to the post but ignore the flame war. If you feel insulted ignore it, if you reply then it will just go on and on... Cant we all get along? If you have an opinion abut something say it, just try to not make it personal, its not impossibile. Every one makes misstakes but it dosent hurt that much to say sorry or edit your own post if its out of line. Treat others as you want to be treated yourself.

Thanks for reading...

Viktor


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## MDLarson (Nov 1, 2002)

Ed, delete this thread, please!


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## iMan (Nov 1, 2002)

MDLarson. are the arrows ment to go backwards? in your avatar that is.


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## edX (Nov 1, 2002)

1st - macluv, your post was deleted because you insulted hulkaros on more than one instance. just as you have taken to insulting anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. Questioning people's intelligence is simply not allowed here. try reading the rules.  Frankly, i could care less what people say about apple. my concern is how they say it and that they play nice with others. i am secure in my appreciation of my mac and apple. i don't need to defend it or censor opinions because they differ from mine. but i am not going to go thru and edit multiple infractions of the site rules in a long post. Either post by the rules or risk having your posts vanish. I don't have the patience to go thru and change every "no-no" by hand. and when i do, people complain about that.

2nd - i added a couple of options in the poll at other's request. 

3rd - thanks to all for your comments of support. But especially to viktor whose points are very well taken. I don't enjoy the site as much anymore when i have to spend my time being the police and keeping the same few people in line over and over. everyone has been pretty good lately so i have not been too pressured until this. my reasons for not posting as much have more to do with other real life priorities that allow me less time to spend here. not moderating wouldn't change that. but i have considered letting go of my responsibilities  But so long as it doesn't overwhelm me and the admin wants me, i am planning to stay for the moment.

4th - there are rumors about me? why haven't i heard them?


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## boi (Nov 1, 2002)

i think it's neat and respectible when people break the rules and then whine incessantly about being caught.


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## Jason (Nov 1, 2002)

well ed, the rumors are that you became a chargers fan just this season when they started doing good

also another is that you have 3 nipples... is that true?

damnit ed, stop doing your job, we want anarchy!



ok ok, i'll admit, sometimes i dont like ed's choices in doing his job, but at least he is doing it, and he means well, so i say, he stays and possibly thinks of having a couple more mods, tough job to do by yourself, let someone help you out


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## edX (Nov 1, 2002)

to set the record straight - i have been a Chargers fan since the 70's and the Air Coryell years.

i have 2 different colored eyes but only 2 nipples. one mutation per generation is enough.

i am all for having some help at moderation!! Does anyone WANT to do it? of course the decision rests with admin and twyg, but i would be all for adding another mod to this forum and a few others.  I can only add that my understanding of moderators has changed quite bit since i became one.  Being a poster is relatively easy compared with having to be a watchdog.

i am sooooo bored with the discussion of moto vs. other chips that i almost feel like poking my eyes out everytime a new thread about it starts. but hey, if you guys want to debate this pointless topic ad nauseum, who am i to stop you? Frankly i have really come to admire Fryke for his ability to carry on the same argument with a new group of people each month. How does he do it?


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## gigi (Nov 1, 2002)

Can we see the thread that was edited ?


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## stealth (Nov 1, 2002)

Having read all the posts in this thread... i have come to the conlusion that almost EVeRYONE disagrees with MACluv.... and on the other hand almost EVERYONE believes (thrhough these posts) that ED is doing a great job... 
im kinda of new to this forum so i dont know any of you... so i guess all i have to say is KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ED!!!

i feel though that i should point out that while im posting this.. 50% believes ED should NOT leave...but at the same time about 50% believes that ED should stop deleting other peoples posts - or leave this forum ----> so.. i guess that ED maybe you should wonder.. WHY some people feel negatively about you and ur actions.. and maybe you can do something 2 have moe than 50% of the votes on ur side..  thanx for ur time...


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

Yeah keep up the good job Ed... not.

I never included a NO or "who's Ed" option in my poll... as usual my workings have been tampered with...

So begins Butter's reign of terror...


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *1st - macluv, your post was deleted because you insulted hulkaros on more than one instance. just as you have taken to insulting anyone who disagrees with you in this thread. Questioning people's intelligence is simply not allowed here. try reading the rules.  Frankly, i could care less what people say about apple. my concern is how they say it and that they play nice with others. i am secure in my appreciation of my mac and apple. i don't need to defend it or censor opinions because they differ from mine. but i am not going to go thru and edit multiple infractions of the site rules in a long post. Either post by the rules or risk having your posts vanish. I don't have the patience to go thru and change every "no-no" by hand. and when i do, people complain about that.*


*

Well, actually Ed, I wasn't insulting Hulk's intelligence, he does that on his own, and I certainly don't start "your mama" wars so I think you're actions were a bit harsh, unreasonable, and biased towards a user you know. How do you know Hulk's posts aren't insulting me? Does it matter? You should have contacted me first or let others complain about it or waited to see what happened. The truth is you shouldn't be moderating these forums because you obviously don't have the skills to determine what is just from what is not. If you can prove to me and the people in here beyond a reasonable doubt that I was making insults to Hulk than by all means do so... but since you've terminated my post we can't really do that now, can we? You're job as a moderator is also to make sure that people are having fun in here, and right now I'm not having fun. 

Now you can either be my friend or my enemy, but if you choose the latter, I'll just go start my own forum and let people post sans Ed... I'm sure the admins of this place would love to know why people don't post here anymore. And for all of you nonbelievers out there who swear loyalty to this forum--I say whatever... you won't even know it's me and neither will all the new subscribers to it... so the choice is yours... apologize to me and make peace or moderate the ten fans of Ed... 

much luv,

me*


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 1, 2002)

Damn, MacLuv, your poll offered basically the same choice twice -- get rid of Ed, or get rid of Ed.  That's not a fair poll, and you have bitched and whined about Ed not being fair to you... which he has been.  You're guilty of the same thing you're accusing Ed of being to you!  That's hypocritical!  Ed deleted your post because it didn't conform to the rules of this board.  You have threatened to leave this board and start your own, and that's your obligation and decision to do so if you choose not to abide by the rules of this board.  What's the problem?  

If you would like to see your original post stay here, then politely retype it and make sure it conforms to the rules of the board.  I don't see how hard that is.  I post here frequently, and I speak my mind fully and without thinking twice about what I say and never once has my post been deleted, moved or censored.  Perhaps your manner of speaking is too harsh, too offensive or just plain bad.  I never read your first post, so I can't say one way or the other -- I can only trust the judgement of Ed, who has been nothing but fair the entire time I've been a member here (about a year).

Anyways, I don't wanna offend you or anyone else on this board -- but you are acting like a child.  One simple post is deleted, for good reason, so get over it and move on with life.  No one is against you here.  Your deleted post didn't conform to the rules of the board, that's it.

Also -- about the poll... gimme a break.  Your "work" hasn't been tampered with.  Your emotional outburst, which you manifested in the form of a poll, had two other options added to it to make it more un-biased.  Your original work on the poll remains intact and unchanged, there are just more options now so it doesn't sound so immature... and come on, you can't rightly and seriously tell me that your original poll was thorough and well thought out.  Two options, both of which slam Ed?  That's not right, it's not fair, it's not mature, and I'm surprised this thread didn't go into the circular bin along with your other post.


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by gigi _
> *Can we see the thread that was edited ? *



Well, you're looking at one right now... Ed took it upon himself to add two more choices to my poll so there you are... who's to say anything written in this forum is original and worth reading at all?

Ed, if I needed a copy editor I would have hired one, thanks.

I think this is a good sign that you're bored and have nothing better to do and the power has gone to your head.


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## MacLuv (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ElDiabloConCaca _
> *Also -- about the poll... gimme a break.  Your "work" hasn't been tampered with.  Your emotional outburst, which you manifested in the form of a poll, had two other options added to it to make it more un-biased.  Your original work on the poll remains intact and unchanged, there are just more options now so it doesn't sound so immature... and come on, you can't rightly and seriously tell me that your original poll was thorough and well thought out.  Two options, both of which slam Ed?  That's not right, it's not fair, it's not mature, and I'm surprised this thread didn't go into the circular bin along with your other post. *



No, actually my work has been tampered with. I offered a poll that I thought was fair. If you don't like it, make your own poll, this one was mine. 

If somebody posted a similiar poll replacing ED with WINDOWS, we wouldn't be having this conversation because obviously everyone wouldn't care. But suddenly I should shut up becuase the moderator of this forum has tampered with my input not once but twice. 

Hey I don't know about you, but maybe you like living in a police state. The irony about the responses to my posts on this thread is that they go against everything Apple in itself tries to promote against.

As far as my poll sounding immature, who cares? It's a poll. Do you think 280 million people in the United States all gate Bush a 96% approval rating? Get real, all polls are biased.

And regarding my original post... it was throurough and well thought out, and it took me a half hour to write in rebuttal to Hulk's comments how we were "all insane" becuase we thought PCs were cheaper and faster than Macs. It was that simple. 

Frankly, this all started because Ed can't resist playing God, and frankly I'm sick of hearing about it. He made a mistake. It's that simple. And I don't mind people posting things to me or about me but I do mind when people invite me to speak and then take away my voice. If I started deleted all your posts in here you'd be pissed off too.


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## edX (Nov 1, 2002)

> said by macluv
> Now you can either be my friend or my enemy, but if you choose the latter, I'll just go start my own forum and let people post sans Ed... I'm sure the admins of this place would love to know why people don't post here anymore. And for all of you nonbelievers out there who swear loyalty to this forum--I say whatever... you won't even know it's me and neither will all the new subscribers to it... so the choice is yours... apologize to me and make peace or moderate the ten fans of Ed...



i am neither your friend nor your enemy. I have no emotional involvement with you whatsoever.  I'm just the moderator of this forum. i'm not going to apologize for doing what is asked of me. 

as for how many people post here - if we only had 5 people who posted here nd they were all able to carry on a mature and reasonable discussion within the bounds of the site rules, then the site would be better than if we had a thousand who who thought it was acceptable to cuss and belittle each other. If the latter is what you want, try the newsgroups of usenet. Fortunately, the site seems to work the other way around. We seem to get about 1 or 2 people who don't care to play by the rules for every thousand members. How all the other posters manage to act reasonably must be quite puzzling to those who always feel they are being picked  on.

also, the other choices in the poll were added because others requested them. allright, i'll admit "who is Ed?" was just for fun and entirely my own idea and that so far i am the only one who voted for that choice.  

i do admit that my biggest mistake was not preserving evidence of your mistakes. not that i would share them publicly as that would negate the reasons for deleting them. But it would be nice to be able to send you a copy and point out where you messed up. i apologize for not having taken the time to do that. I will try not to make that mistake again.

i also think i will move this thread to site discussions where it really belongs so that twyg and admin can oversee it. i'm sure you'll accuse me of tampering with your thread for doing that, but oh well.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 1, 2002)

Your poll was not fair.  There were two options basically saying the same thing.  That's not even a poll, it's you voicing your opinion in the form of a poll, which is NOT a poll.  A poll is something that you use to enlighten yourself as to what other's opinions are.  You did not provide enough choices to sufficiently warrant a poll -- you offered once choice worded two different ways.

And ALL your posts were not deleted.  ONE was.  For, in MANY people's opinion, good reason.

This isn't anything personal, MacLuv, but you're reacting a bit excessively.  In my opinion, of course.  

Perhaps Ed made a mistake.  Perhaps he didn't.  In your opinion, he did.  In other's, he didn't.  Ah well, it happens.  Do you really want to abandon this board because of this one mistake?  You can't force an apology.  It wouldn't be sincere if you ASKED for an apology and got one... if Ed feels the need to apologize, he will.  If not, then it won't happen.  

I'm asking you to give this board a second chance.  People make mistakes here.  I've offended people before.  People have offended me.  Your opinion is valued here, despite what mistakes or decisions were made about your previous post.  I, for one, would love to review it, if it were still here... but I do look forward to reading your future opinions, if you decide to stay a contributing member of this forum.

I'm asking that we all move on, and start over -- I think you'll find that this board provides much more enjoyment and enlightenment than you've experienced through this one incident.  I'm sorry you had such a negative experience, but I'm sure the positive experiences you'll have in the future will outweigh the negative experiences that have already occurred.


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## gigi (Nov 1, 2002)

> Well, you're looking at one right now... Ed took it upon himself to add two more choices to my poll so there you are... who's to say anything written in this forum is original and worth reading at all?



Well I dont think that should happen, if you had said something to say that is not vulgar or offensive, then i think your post should be left alone.
Having said that I do admire Ed quite alot especially on mozilla/netcape/aol thing. He got a lot of fake for that but stood by his principles. (I didnt agree with him but I admired the fact that he was resolute in his stand on the issue)


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## chemistry_geek (Nov 1, 2002)

Gosh, this brings back some memories...[scratching chin David Letterman style].  In fact, it went kinda like this...[harps playing David Letterman style].  Long ago, a member complained about FREEDOM OF SPEECH being violated.  And I recall responding to the post with something like...Your freedom of speech was never violated, you posted an opinion on a PRIVATELY OWNED, publically viewable medium, where there are RULES stating NO ATTACKS AGAINST OTHERS or NAUGHTY WORDS in the forum.  Since the member breached the rules of conduct, his/her thread was "modified" and subsequently got "bent out of shape".  Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?  I simply don't understand.  Help me here, I'm _REALLY_ missing the point.

You leave Ed alone!  He does a fine job moderating these forums.


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## edX (Nov 1, 2002)

> Well I dont think that should happen, if you had said something to say that is not vulgar or offensive, then i think your post should be left alone.



while i once again apologize for not having kept proof, you will just have to take my word for it this time that NO POST HAS EVER BEEN DELETED SIMPLY BECAUSE I DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT!!

if there weren't more than one violation of site rules in the posts in question here, they wouldn't have been deleted. Break one rule and i dig into the post and edit it to conform. sometimes i send a private warning to the poster if i believe they did it intentionaly. 

in fact, the one way i improperly did my job with the posts in question is that i did not issue an official warning to the posters which would then mean they would be eligible for banning. I also haven't deleted or moderated any of their dissatisfaction with me and my actions which would have been grounds for their banning if i had issued the original warning i am expected to by admin. I certainly have had my character attacked here and have not taken "nazi" measures in retaliation. 

but perhaps i should be removed as moderator by admin because i don't seem to be able to enforce the rules strictly enough. i tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to give them every opportunity to be productive members of the community here. but when i finally do something about it, it seems to end in this kind of self centered confrontation with my name being slandered. 

and MacLuv - i think we are more than even over the amount of each other's time and energy that's been wasted.

(and thanks Niles  )


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## plastic (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a room full of AA members and ED was the group sponsor... *



Many of those who noticed me around here will know I am a fun loving person who has never wanting to engage in a flame war, but I think you are the first to really get to me. 

No one is supporting Ed because we are just friends standing up for each other. We are sincerely glad he has done a great job here as a mod.

Stop this whole anti-Ed campaign. You have had enough practise for politics. Don't end up making the users here vote you out instead. And calling other people names is a little too much.


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## whitesaint (Nov 1, 2002)

I just think Ed can be too strict somtimes thats all that and the gold leprechaun.


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## MDLarson (Nov 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by viktor _
> *MDLarson. are the arrows ment to go backwards? in your avatar that is.  *


Hmm, your monitor must be broken  Looks like they're goin' the right way to me!  

Naw, I set 'em to go backwards.


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## Jason (Nov 1, 2002)

oh so now you are showing your charger pride? what about supporting all the poor chaps the other years??  

anyways i wouldnt mind helping ed, up to you guys though 

as far as im concerned this guy is a weak link and really if you just ignore him it might not get so *big* 

btw the bills are gonna stomp on the chargers this season  

bills are my team, chargers second, i went to last years game, damn that was an awesome one, although the wrong team won, i still love flutie oh well


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## Total Konfuzion (Nov 2, 2002)

There will always be opinions and people will always disagree.  Macluv makes some valid points but the arguement is mute at this point.  If one is so offended by something than he has the right to leave or voice himself, but that doesn't mean he is right or wrong.  No one will ever be right or wrong, because nothing is really factual now is it?    The truth is out there..but none of us will ever find it   Let's just drop the subject and stop wasting our time discussing something that is being blown way out of hand and use our elite typing skills to maybe discuss what brand of toilet paper is best and why it is the best


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## edX (Nov 2, 2002)

Buddah - i think the Boltz/Bills game will be one of the best of the year. i really like the current Bills. they have some great Ohio State and U. of Tenn. players on there. The niners are my second favorite team but the Bills are quickly becoming my third. 

and yes, i had all my bumper stickers still on my van (the Boltz mobile, complete with lightening decals) last year when we were 1-15 so don't even try calling me a fairweather fan. I wear my shirts out the day after a loss and still have pride. Say Ow. 

hum, i guess that is off topic. we're supposed to be discussing toilet paper, right? i like Charmin and any of those 'soft' brands.


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## plastic (Nov 2, 2002)

Yeah, soft toilet paper is safe and nice... ad it pampers you royal behinds... I like...


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## Jason (Nov 2, 2002)

i was tempted to fly to buffalo for the game lol, last year was horrid for the both of us  but this year is fun 

drew is the man! and so is peerless and eric moulds! and travis henry!

w00t

hehe

i hate that toilet paper in public restrooms that are all hard and stuff, chaffs the bum hole


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## ksv (Nov 2, 2002)

The majority of all conflicts are between authorities and their people.


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## scruffy (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *Hmm, your monitor must be broken  Looks like they're goin' the right way to me!
> 
> Naw, I set 'em to go backwards. *



How's that saying go?  "A step backward is a step in the right direction if you were facing the wrong way to begin with."  Something like that


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## yuki (Nov 2, 2002)

Is ED a human?


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## xaqintosh (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *The majority of all conflicts are between authorities and their people. *



I think its pretty funny how ksv keeps interjecting these little comments against capitalism and such, although I can't really tell if he's being serious


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## Jason (Nov 2, 2002)

yep, ed is in fact inhuman... he was bred from a d'hari and a tstet'l alien species, thus the reason for 3 nipples, interchangable eyes and extra long arms (of law?)


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## Alex (Nov 3, 2002)

Heres what I have to say...

A) macluv or what ever your name is, to be honest I didnt care to look... If you say that we dont have any users who post.... take a freeking look at our member number... and the post number.

B) The last I checked your not exactly the top poster, nor some huge person in this community... And not once has your name come across a conversation I and Scott have had about making you a cornerstone a Admin or some type of name in this website.

C) no one asked you.

D) Go ahead and try to make another Mac Community... to be honest, most who have tried have failed... including myself (on my own time, with out the help of others) and many others who you see and "type" to every day. But if you think that non censorship will attract users, your wasting time. We have a few users who put up a fuss about a few missing posts and the majority of the rest thank us for the effort to keep it under control. 

You're one single outbreak isnt going to make us say, hey he's right, lets give Ed the boot, refresh our moderator group with a bunch of idiots that let porn, swear words, stupid comments run free. 

Bottom line is, this decision is not going to be moved or heck, even set in motion by your comment, your poll. 

Dont get me wrong, we dont want users to drop like flies, but we much rather have a few smart, respectful type rather than a bunch of wild posters who scare the rest away.

Rules are rules, they apply to all, if Ed did what you were doing, or did something aganist the rules, someone would apply the same force he used on you, on him...

We arnt nazies, we arn't trying to create the perfect group of posters, we are just trying to make it live-able... 

As far as I am concerned this topic is going no where. I'd rather close this topic and call it a night... But I will leave this topic open, letting it be known, that this is how it is, and how it will stay unless ed goes crazy or what ever happens...I'll be personally watching this topic and if it gets back to being a harsh topic, it will be closed... and if we make me close this topic.... *trails off* =D...

And to MacLuv- As any type of moderator, or figure of some power, let it be to write you a speeding ticket or power to call you on correct interaction with peers on a message boards comes with a golden sign that we hang around our necks... kick me here, or here or here, with fancy arrows pointing to the key locations... 
Ed gets the most of it, because, unfortanatly or not, he's the one who catches these more often than the rest... let it be because he has more time, or because he just happens to see them, who knows... but telling you from a higher view, he's the one who does the majority of the dirty work. Its not Ed.
If I was doing the same as Ed is right now I'd be getting the same treatment, the same comments. We are lucky to have Ed as a moderator, but not so much as that, but as a user. Ed contributes quite a bit to a number of forums, and not nearly all of them are closing forms or moving topics or this or that.
Give Ed a break, because we all know he needs one.

______
Please give me a break too, Its 1:00AM and I dont feel like reading all over that and checking for spelling errors..
______


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## plastic (Nov 3, 2002)

Booker Prize... I like...


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## MacLuv (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Alex _
> *Heres what I have to say...
> 
> A) macluv or what ever your name is, to be honest I didnt care to look... If you say that we dont have any users who post.... take a freeking look at our member number... and the post number.
> ...



Well aren't you just General Friendly?

What # post is this? I only started this poll in the first place because of one reason--taxation without representation. I'm sure you're familiar with that term... it's why you live in the land of the free.

If I sat back idley and let Ed just "get away" with deleting my post because he felt he was "following the rules" then I'd be something of a sheep, and since I'm not a sheep, I figured I'd bitch and moan and kick up a fuss until Ed at the very least kicked in an apology. Which he sort of did. So I shut up. And then I checked my profile box and this thread which, like the Enegizer Bunny never seems to stop going.

I have since forgiven Ed for his shortcomings and yet you come on here and test my resolve by giving me some sort of speech about the workings of the world and how, since I'm not top poster, my opinion doesn't seem to count this way or that. I suppose if the color of my skin was different than yours perhaps my opinion wouldn't count either, would it? No, perhaps I shouldn't go that far, but like Uncle Ben (Parker) says: with great power comes great responsibility. All I've seen of most of the admins in these forums is a sort of complacent abuse of users who, as a whole, make up this community and all others in this world. So please, don't lecture me about how the moderators need my sympathy vote... I thought Ed went over the line and it's started a damn ethics committee which is typical of these forums... nobody can tell me why Apple can't buy into AMD but we'll have 500 posts about somebody's ego trip gone bad. 

Ed has been replying to my posts elsewhere and everything is fine... I don't really know why you would want to keep this post open becuase frankly, like you said, it's done. There's no reason to read it and we've all moved on. As far as me opening a new Mac forum, I'll think about it. It's not a threat, but this is the internet and anything can happen. Until then I'd like to continue bitching and moaning about Apple--here, in this forum, without fear that a bored moderator presses the panic button. After all, in the past 18 years my friends have poured more than a quarter of a million dollars in equipment, support, stocks, and bullsh*t into Apple. Maybe more. I've been an Apple advocate for a long time, and a member of the Mac community for far longer than this forum was even born... so once again... no lectures.

Now, if you really want to help me out, just let me be, and I'll get it straight sooner or later on my own. I have been, on occasion, known to tie my shoes by myself. 

Ok, so can we go back to posting now? I think I hear my PopTarts burning...


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## MacLuv (Nov 3, 2002)

BTW, by *shortcomings* i am referring to the three nipples, of course.


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## yuki (Nov 3, 2002)

Is there some kind of pic of this 'Ed" machine or (whatever it is) on the internet?  Might this 'ED' be a terrorist weapon?


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## xaqintosh (Nov 3, 2002)




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## yuki (Nov 3, 2002)

yipes!!!!!!


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## Alex (Nov 3, 2002)

If it is done it is done. 

I dont remember this websites url... oh MacOSX.com, not LetsBootEd.com

Shake hands, Kiss, do what ever it is you all do to make up.


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