# Thanks Apple



## BBenve (Sep 28, 2001)

Guys.. everyone has been complaining...and i have to admit....i was complaining too, but tonight i was playing aroud with OSX...and one question popped on my mind.. Do we really realize what a great OS  OSX is?
Man is beautiful is "reliable"  aqua is just gorgeous.. nothing like it anywhere...wow .. i know there are still problems, but Apple always fixed everything  sommehow....soooo.... Thanks Apple for the beautiful and great OS...thanks thanks thanks

Andy


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## jimr (Sep 28, 2001)

I hope everyone can realize this OS is so far superior to <b>ANYTHING</b> running on a Personal computer.

Start looking at the features...
I have installed on a separate partition and have done some file by file comparisons.

Like, for example, the incredible handling of languages.

or in System/Library, there had been a "Preference" folder which contained  the code for the Systems preferences Panels.

I remember several months ago, I read a report of some guy who shot himself in the foot by going into that folder deleting things , thinking it was the preferece data files.

Apple has renamed the folder to 

<b>"PreferencePanes"</b>  now future migrators won't be as easily confused.

These are just a few examples, there are tons more of improvements under-the-hood which will only become evident over time.

some are rather stunnning... but others will be subdued... all of them are great.

The rest of this year will see further refinements and the porting of most of the "MacStandard" Applications.

Constructing a Powerhouse which is equally friendly to novice and expert alike takes a significant plan and exquisite execution.

The drivers will come, be patient.


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## swizcore (Sep 29, 2001)

I totally agree, when I first started using OSX i was like, wow this is cool, but far too strange for me to get used to fast. Now, I 've learned alot about the terminal, Apache, and various other technologies which make me more excited about this OS than some of my creations from graphics apps video, 2d, web interactive or otherwise. And this is just an OS causing this excitement. OSX is amazing and I cant stand having to use classic apps. I will happily use them though until they are X savvy and shipping. Long live Apple and OSX...(cliche' but my feelings)


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## zippygaloo (Sep 29, 2001)

It's still slower than Molass-ASS.  That's like saying you have a really nice car, spit polished and everything but there is NO ENGINE IN IT! C'mon 10.1 was a LONG way to go. Sure it's stable, sure it's this, sure it's that, but one thing it ISN'T is fast. In the computer world (and the real world for that matter) speed is everything. Just look at the megahertz war crap going on. YOU MUST HAVE FASTER or you lose out. Anyway I have to say 10.1 boggs down my day and wastes my time.  As did this message. If 10.1 wasn't so damn slow I wouldn't have wasted my time replying to this email..thus wasting more time. Thanks apple.


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## colddiver (Sep 29, 2001)

Zippygaloo: What computer do you use?

It may not be your case but people with years old machine bitching about speed should learn that in computing, if you want speed with the latest software, you need recent hardware.

This goes for *any* platform...

As for myself, I have been using 10.0 since the beginning as my main OS. The speed loss (in some areas - OS X is faster than OS 9 for many things) was greatly compensated for by the features that came with it. Now I am going to be in the local Mac store at 9 (opening time) this morning to get my copie of 10.0 (update or not - I want it now and I don't care if I have to pay the full price again). That said, I will definetely welcome the speed boost it is supposed to provide.

I will add my applause and thanks to Apple. What they did with this OS is just amazing.

Colddiver


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 29, 2001)

Yes Thank you Apple! 
For a very fast very nice OS, and
THANK YOU for kicking your loyal customers in the ass by not supporting them 


Admiral


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## swizcore (Sep 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by zippygaloo _
> *It's still slower than Molass-ASS.  That's like saying you have a really nice car, spit polished and everything but there is NO ENGINE IN IT! C'mon 10.1 was a LONG way to go. Sure it's stable, sure it's this, sure it's that, but one thing it ISN'T is fast. In the computer world (and the real world for that matter) speed is everything. Just look at the megahertz war crap going on. YOU MUST HAVE FASTER or you lose out. Anyway I have to say 10.1 boggs down my day and wastes my time.  As did this message. If 10.1 wasn't so damn slow I wouldn't have wasted my time replying to this email..thus wasting more time. Thanks apple.  *



YES it is FAST on my computer. YES it is FASTER than 9.2.1 on MY computer and anyone elses who has adequate RAM and especially dual processors. How many freezes  do you get in X? How many in 9? 
Dont use your own crappy experience with the OS to try and speak for everyone. We all stated that we love Apple and X because they are great for US not YOU. So quit whining and trying to speak for the Mac collective. Dont use X if your slow sytem cant run it adequately, no one is forcing you.


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## PMG4DP (Sep 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *Yes Thank you Apple!
> For a very fast very nice OS, and
> THANK YOU for kicking your loyal customers in the ass by not supporting them
> ...



Maybe it's time to upgrade....


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 29, 2001)

Time for an upgrage ?
Did you take a look at my specs in my signature ?
I dont have the $$$ to get a new computer AND peripherals eveyr 2 years!


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## besson3c (Sep 29, 2001)

Zippygaloo:

What makes you say that speed is everything? Just because when you click "ok" on a Photoshop filter and are able to complete that task in .5 seconds less does not make you more productive.

The way you work and get things done is what makes you productive. I think Apple is combating the megahertz wars by showing SOLUTIONS to creative problems, and showing elegant ways of getting things done, and well thought out interfaces.

I think people are getting fed up with the fact that today's computer is obsolete and are caring less about megahertz.

The truth is, even on my original iBook 10.1 is responsive and quite usable. Maybe a fraction of a second is lost here and there in my work, but so what? I'm more productive in this OS because it works well! I prefer working in a workspace where applications work within a consistent framework and ease-of-use is not acheived by adding more wizards and automation (i.e. XP). 

My point is the speed which occurs after you click "ok" or execute any other command is only a SMALL factor in overall productivity. If I find 10.1 usable on my little iBook, then...


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## swizcore (Sep 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by besson3c _
> *Zippygaloo:
> 
> The way you work and get things done is what makes you productive. I think Apple is combating the megahertz wars by showing SOLUTIONS to creative problems, and showing elegant ways of getting things done, and well thought out interfaces.
> *



...poetry... pure poetry


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## SCrossman (Sep 29, 2001)

I was reluctant to open this thread thinking it was more whining about getting the upgrade or paying $20 for.  OS X is great! It is fast and stable. I don't know what hardware or why zippygaloo complains about the speed. Bogs down your day, get real?  I would much rather use OS 10.1 o my 450 Cube than run Windows 2000 on my Dell 8100, 17ghz P4.  I am very happy with 10.1.  Then of course AdmiralK had to put his 2 cents in and ruin the party.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 29, 2001)

Normally I look at the bright side of things,
Normally I am a VERY pro apple guy
Today is not a normal day....
I got OS X in the hopes that DVD, CD-R and other issues would be worked out by the next update, update 10.1, which is mind you what apple promised.  Apple promised CD-R and DVD with 10.1, but it did not do so with disclaimers and conditions.  I got the update, I unstalled it and does my DVD play DVD discs ? Noooooo.... does my CD-R work ? nooooo cause its SCSI.

Dont get me wrong, I like the speed increase I get with the update but what about apple's broken promises ?  My mac IS NOT an old mac!  It's what  I would consider a normal mac.  Not everyone has the dought to go out and buy a new mac every year!


Admiral


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## besson3c (Sep 29, 2001)

Admiral:

As with all the Mac OS X releases we've had, 10.1 is Apple's way of saying "here's what we've got done so far"... there is a lot of evidence that some of the features currently in it are not 100% complete. That doesn't mean they'll never be complete.


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## bolindilly (Sep 29, 2001)

admiralak, what machine do you have?

i have a two year old mac, and dvd works fine on mine...


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## omegaroot (Sep 29, 2001)

hey Admiral,

maybe your complaint should be with the companies who built and support your SCSI devices? Im sorta in the same boat except my SCSI stuff is brand new. I forked out the $400 some bucks for a dual channel Ultra160 Adaptec card, and another $200 for a 10k RPM Ultra160 Quantum 9 gig. But im not pissed at Apple for the cheesy support for the HBA in 10.1, my cross-ness lies with Adaptec....

just my take my take on it though....


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## ulrik (Sep 29, 2001)

MacOS X.1 is the best OS I ever used.

No doubt about it. I don't get it when people are complaining that their IE takes one more bounce than what was shown in Seybold.

This OS is awesome! I know enough PC guys which asked me if they could take a look at it since they saw screenshots! NO SHIT!

DVD playback is awesome here! I have a dozen of apps open, CPU monitor, Entourage X beta, Terminal, Console, Process Viewer, iTunes, Preview and Quicktime and the DVD player somewhere behind all those windows and it plays without dropping a frame.

I LOVE THIS OS!!! When I used 10 to 10.0.4, I always dreamed of how it would be if the OS is "usable"...and now it is! 

Apple...good job  

And if Connectix now gets VPC working on my OS X machine, I think my little world over here is perfect...


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## jove (Sep 29, 2001)

Hello,

Just my two cents.

If I was in Admiral's boat, I'd be pissed off too. But please don't put bad intentions into Apple's actions. The company is working as fast as than can. They know the slower X matures the more displeased customers will be.

People have been screaming victim before 10.0 was released in March. Unsupported machines, consumers need to understand the upgrade lifespan of hardware is small. Missing features, customers need to research before they buy. $20 upgrade for shipping product with dev CD,  free alternative exists. And now immediate availablity of said FREE product, when the product will be distributed in this fashion for a month.

Apple is creating a great product. We are not entitled to features before they can be developed. Apple has delivery deadlines that have to met nomatter the state of X. Throwing more people at a development task does not shorten time to completion. Until they say "X will not support abc" we cannot pass judgement. But we can be irritated.

Having worked in numerous development shops and understanding the hundreds of reasons why corners have to be cut, I just get little fustrated when consumers feel entitled to stuff that cannot logistically happen.

Thank You


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## Jasoco (Sep 29, 2001)

My DVD works pefectly. I had no trouble with the OS once I got it running.

I WISH I had a CDRW. I really need one. But I'd rather have a DVDRW or whatever. I could use that to back up.

The DVD player REALLY blew me away. With OS 9's DVD player, when I pause it took an extra 2 or 3 seconds before it actually paused. And if I skipped around it was very slow. But 10.1's version is extremely fast and makes me happy I have a DVD player. Now.. If I only had a CDRW.
Soon, Jasoco, Soon. 

I LOVE this OS. It's a really great accomplishment. I believe Apple accomplished a lot in the last 6 months. And I'm sure they'll accomplish even MORE in the NEXT 6 months.

10.2 HERE WE COME!


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 29, 2001)

I am ticked off... but I dont feel like a victim 

I think I will stick to OS 9 as my mian OS  and have OS X as my developemnt OS to do HTML-ing, JAVA-ing and C-ing.

I RE-installed OS X cleanly *again* today, having all drives on but burn would not install.

I check OrangeMicro's site to see if they had anything for OS X but they did not.  SCSI has been *fundemental* to the macs since the 128k mac I think.  There has always been SCSI support.  I can understand the need to cut off serial support but why not develop SCSI support right away?  I cannot use my Zip drive nor my CD-RW (even to read CDs) in OS X

As for the DVD, I am just ticked because they said DVD by 10.1 with no fine print.

Ah shucks... anyway... Just my 2 cents 


Admiral


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## Mosco (Sep 29, 2001)

I have a G3 too.  But i use that as my home server so watching dvds doesn't matter.  it stinks that apple doesn't support the internal decoder.  I wonder if you replaced the card with a different one, it would work.

Well, you guys will be really mad when 10.2 comes out.  Because it won't run on g3s or g4s.


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## omegaroot (Sep 29, 2001)

im not even going to dignify that with a real post.


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## jove (Sep 29, 2001)

Admiral - sorry for putting you in the same category as the entitlement-victims  I got a little carried away with my rant.


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## knussear (Sep 29, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *I am ticked off... but I dont feel like a victim
> 
> I think I will stick to OS 9 as my mian OS  and have OS X as my developemnt OS to do HTML-ing, JAVA-ing and C-ing.
> ...



you might try giving orange micro a call. I have an orginal beige g3 tower with an orange micro firewire card intstalled, which originally did not work with 10.0.4, and they e-mailed me (within minutes) a beta driver which still works to this day. Perhaps they have a similir scsi solution inthe works?


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## symphonix (Sep 29, 2001)

I switched to Mac with the release of the iceBook this year, and am amazed at the number of complaints I've seen about, especially in light of the technology on the intel platforms.
Linux only got "finished" USB support in March this year. I have yet to see a WM on any Unix OS fit to lick Aqua's boots in terms of performance and efficiency. It's theming abilities are no match for Enlightenment, Afterstep or KDE, but the upside is that the system is consistent and easy to understand and in fact looks and feels very similar to Classic.
Windows drivers all come from the hardware vendors, and you never hear people screaming at microsoft because their Acme Mouse doesn't work.
And, most importantly, with Windows you would have to dig up more money for things like developer's tools, servers, etc.
OS X bridges a gap between the Unix and Mac worlds: Mac users now have access to a vast array of specialist software, esp. in the areas of Internet and programming. Unix gurus now have access to mainstream creative software such as Print, Design, Audio/Music & Video production, and so on. There is no software worth having that can't be found on OS X, it only falls behind in games, and then not by much.
Yes, it may take some time to mature. Yes, you might have to wait a bit for legacy drivers. If you're not ready for X, just sit it out and stop whinging.


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## gigi (Sep 29, 2001)

symphonix
i could not agree more


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## omegaroot (Sep 30, 2001)

almost brought a tear to this Mac fan, well put...


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## jimr (Sep 30, 2001)

Frankly, I get so much enjoyment from using my Macs for work, I have <b>no time for games.</b>


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 30, 2001)

Time for me to save up some dought and get a cinematic display ...you;re all invited to my movie matinees  hehehe


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## Makosuke (Sep 30, 2001)

First of all, I third that symphonix put it succinctly and beautifully.  I've got my eye candy, most of the apps I know and love now "just work", and yet there's Apache, the terminal, and the wild world of unix just sitting there, eminating power.

Second, I'm new around here, but I've been a Mac user since the earliest days, and after finally installing 10.1 (I waited out all the betas), I had to shout out somewhere, and this thread looked as appropriate as any:

X rocks.

Yeah, there are still a few quirks, but now it works, it works almost exactly like I want it to, and it works FAST.  This is what I've been waiting for since I installed the public beta, and I'm happy.  I understand other people still having complaints, and I do have a DP533 to throw at it, but at least I'm a satisfied customer.

(Funny side note:  After first installing it, and fiddling around a bit, something felt wrong--the same kind of wrong you get when you sit down as somebody else's computer and due to preferences et. al. it just doesn't feel right.  After maybe half an hour, I figured out why:  Everything was happening so fast that, after adjusting to and getting comfortable with the slight-to-severe lags in 10.0, it seemed almost alien.  This, I can deal with.)


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## jove (Sep 30, 2001)

Makosuke -

I found myself still avoiding those old bottleneck areas. I have to keep reminding myself not adjust my workflow according to expected speeds.

One bottleneck still hits me quite a bit. If you don't move over the Recent Items fast enough, the system has to think to populate its sub-menu. That is a small but aggravating delay when one is trying to logout


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## kilowatt (Sep 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by symphonicx _
> *I switched to Mac with the release of the iceBook this year, and am amazed at the number of complaints I've seen about, especially in light of the technology on the intel platforms.
> Linux only got "finished" USB support in March this year. I have yet to see a WM on any Unix OS fit to lick Aqua's boots in terms of performance and efficiency. It's theming abilities are no match for Enlightenment, Afterstep or KDE, but the upside is that the system is consistent and easy to understand and in fact looks and feels very similar to Classic.
> Windows drivers all come from the hardware vendors, and you never hear people screaming at microsoft because their Acme Mouse doesn't work.
> ...



Well said. Very well said. This is the reason I switched from YellowDogLinux to Mac OS X. 

Origionally, I was very fustrated with the Mac OS <X (8.x and 9.x). I couldn't do anything. I had windows and documents all over the screen. I couldn't edit preferences without using control panels. I never knew quite what was happening on it. So I switched to YellowDogLinux (Which is a linux kernel - basically RedHat compiled for PPC). 

But it didn't float my boat. I couldn't get anything firewire or USB to work (I understand much of this has been fixed up, but its still a pain in the butt). My SCSI scanner would require a kernel re-compile, you can't mount hfs+ in linux at the moment, there isn't a nice easy way to view QuickTime files, there just isn't a lot of the things I was used to. 

Mac OS X comes  out, and boy oh boy! I haven't even touched my SPARC 10, which I used to use as much as I used my Macintosh. I get all the things I liked about linux (except accelerated xf86 - that I don't like at the moment...), without the hassle. 

Once again, THANK YOU APPLE!!!

BTW, AdmiralAK, my scsi iomega zip drive works on the beige g3... do you see anything in your console to indicate that the os even detects its presents (or the apple sys profiler)?


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## firewall (Sep 30, 2001)

SCSI has been out of apple roadmap for a few years already.

I personally got rid of all my SCSI stuff on ebay 2 years ago and went usb and firewire in anticipation of being obsolete.

Apple is building a new OS from the ground up.

It may be painful on your wallet but unfortunatly computer gear has never been a long term investment if you wish to use the latest advancements in technologies.

How's win2000 running on a pentium celeron 400 mhz... an awful lot  slower than on my g4 400mhz. thumbs up for apple

My dvd from apple works, my sony firewire CDR works

Of course i have a tv tuner,webcam and compact flash card reader not working yet, but when i bought them i knew that eventually they will be obsolete too.


Plus, we are at 10.1 , very early in the process. I have been around since a mac plus, Apple had a similar transition with power PC a few years back.

It takes 2 years , no less so after 6 months i am personally very impress with the progress so far


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 30, 2001)

I contacted orangemicro to see if they have drivers.
I think that the nice thing about unix and BSD is that there are a lot of hobbyists out there and there will be someone that makes a driver for such devices.

No doubt about it, my next upgrade will have not SCSI on it, or it will have SCSI as an adapter of some sort.   SCSI is nice but getting old.

Anyway, dont wanna change my computer yet.  In 2 years, maybe 3, that is the plan  


Admiral


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## omegaroot (Sep 30, 2001)

SCSI is getting old?!!  
I dont know what to say Admiral...

Firewire/USB/ATA are kiddies toys compared to SCSI and Fibre Channel!
Yes, USB is far better for mice/keyborads/gamepads then ADB anyday cause the plug and play without a restart. Firewire is sweet for DV. And ATA is suited for laptops, i guess... 

I think one of the key things Apple keeps falling short on with their servers is the belief that SCSI is optional. It is NOT optional when real performance is not only demanded but required, lets not forget RAIDS. These things are common stock for performance and Apple seemed to turned their head to. I think they are finally getting the hint, if you look in Disk Utility you will notice a tab for RAID...

My UltraATA does about ~50-60 megs./sec 
My UltraSCSI does ~130-140 megs./sec

the defense rests


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## BBenve (Sep 30, 2001)

Once again i wanna thank Apple... i am sorry for those who can't feel the same way .. but my icebook since X.1 has been installed thanked me ... performance are not perfect.. but stability is  4 bounces for IE??? well i can afford that.. especially cause the second boot takes only 2.. but the point is not bounces.... everything i plugged till now.. worked....and Aqua.... awww i love aqua... that 's the best thing ever... man i love aqua........did i say that i love aqua?
Well i do Aqua is awesome and works really well...... few bugs here and there... but hey ... no OS is perfect.... but OS X is getting there.... and we saw a huge step forward with 10.1  bigger than i thought .... well done Apple well done!

Andy


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## kilowatt (Sep 30, 2001)

omegaroot, I agree, SCSI is not at all old or obsolete. Ever seen a sun computer w/out scsi? or an sgi? (well, maybe, but not the good ones). 

Besides, can't you only use one ide device at a time when you have two drives on a chain (it may not appear so, but just try to copy one cd to the other with both on the same chain, then use different chains - separate chains yields much faster copy). Besides, ya get +7 drives on some scsi systems.... 

I remember being incredibly pissed when I got my beige and it didn't have a scsi hard drive, I mean, I couldn't even imagine a mac w/out scsi!

When I attempted to get a job at Microcenter, they had this test everyone had to take. It was stupid stuff, like how fast is 10baseT ethernet.

One of the questions was :
Which of the following is on all Apple Macintosh's:
a) adb
b) firewire
c) scsi
d) usb

Sadly, that question is outdated. I told the lady, and she said "The test was created in 98' so just remember that". (The answer was scsi, although I'm not sure that the first iMac's had scsi...)

Long live scsi!


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## soellman (Sep 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *I got OS X in the hopes that DVD, CD-R and other issues would be worked out by the next update, update 10.1, which is mind you what apple promised.  Apple promised CD-R and DVD with 10.1, but it did not do so with disclaimers and conditions.  I got the update, I unstalled it and does my DVD play DVD discs ? Noooooo.... does my CD-R work ? nooooo cause its SCSI.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I like the speed increase I get with the update but what about apple's broken promises ?  My mac IS NOT an old mac!  It's what  I would consider a normal mac.  Not everyone has the dought to go out and buy a new mac every year!
> Admiral *



Calm down 

Something that everyone needs to understand that 10.x is totally new (to the mac platform)! There are more things new about 10 than there were in 7-9 combined. That being said, bringing an operating system of this magnitude up to feature parity with the incumbant os takes time, and so you'll get your dvd playing, your scsi cd burning, and all your hooha and whatnot with 10.1.x or 10.2..

None of these things are important to the latest apple gear, so it's not top priority. But I'd be surprised if there are things you can do in 9 that you can't do in 10 by the time 11 comes around. Give it some time.

This is almost exactly analagous to someone buying a powermac 6100 and getting pissed that their OS wasn't ppc native! After a while the OS was ppc native, but by that time the 6100 was an older machine.. Face it, when it comes to upgrading computers there is never a good time!

But of course, I have a pretty new machine (dp450) and so everything works for me 

cheers,
-o


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## suthep (Sep 30, 2001)

yes, well, i thought i was happy - my b+w G3 ran 10.0.4 beautifully and the SCSI card worked fine too, BUT i couldn't get my printer working and nobody could help but still the new OS was just amazing

and then the power unit shorted out and apple asia quoted me US$150 for a trade-in replacement when EXACTLY the same units for PCs only cost US$25

so i never got 10.1 and if i am supposed to pay a 600% surcharge on a little power unit after using Macs exclusively for 10 years, then i will consider throwing the whole lot down the toilet.  my 'backup' G3 powerbook of course won't even run OS X...... and now someone says 10.2 won't run on G3s at all ........

it is such an amazing OS but i am getting tired of the silly premiums one has to pay for the pleasure of keeping apple alive - i have a family to support so it took me five years to save for my G3 and three months later the G4 came out and the G3 became non-upgradeable.......

anybody know steve jobs' email address?


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## suthep (Sep 30, 2001)

yes, well, i thought i was happy - my b+w G3 ran 10.0.4 beautifully and the SCSI card worked fine too, BUT i couldn't get my printer working and nobody could help but still the new OS was just amazing

and then the power unit shorted out and apple asia quoted me US$150 for a trade-in replacement when EXACTLY the same units for PCs only cost US$25

so i never got 10.1 and if i am supposed to pay a 600% surcharge on a little power unit after using Macs exclusively for 10 years, then i will consider throwing the whole lot down the toilet.  my 'backup' G3 powerbook of course won't even run OS X...... and now someone says 10.2 won't run on G3s at all ........

it is such an amazing OS but i am getting tired of the silly premiums one has to pay for the pleasure of keeping apple alive - it took me five years to save for my G3 and three months later the G4 came out and the G3 became non-upgradeable.......

anybody know steve jobs' email address?


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 30, 2001)

LOL
ok
1) I like SCSI too   I did not mean to bash SCSI (scuzi or sexy ? you decide )

2) I partially agree with suthep, I saved up my money for 3 years to be able to afford my G3, I am a college student, dont have the dough to spend on continually getting new equipment, and even though I have a new job, its still doesnt make sense to keep buying new stuff. (cant even write them off as a job expense lol  dang )

3) 10.2 wont support G3 processors ?? hahaha so in a year or so apple will cut us  off ?? ... I would like to see THAT happen 


Admiral


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## jarinteractive (Sep 30, 2001)

This IS a great OS!  My 6-year old SCSI zip drive still works!  My VST floppy finally works, not that I ever use it, but I could now!  It's fairly fast On my G3, an great on my TiBook.  My only question is wouldn't it be possible for Apple to bypass the DVD-decoder and do software decoding until they finish a hardware-decoding DVD Player?

JARinteractive

G3 B&W--350MHz/704MB/46GB/DVD/SCSI zip
TiBook--500MHz/768MB/20GB/DVD
Que Fire CD-R/W
VST floppy
Epson 740i
Astra 3450 (still unsupported--grrr...UMAX)


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## mailseth (Sep 30, 2001)

What big features do you guys think will be in OS 10.2 and beyond? After 10.3 and all of the little bug fixes, what do you think that apple will have in v11.0 to make the tech market go "OMG!!"?

Check out my thread on the subject for my own ideas. 

http://www.macosx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6435 

And, BTW:


> and then the power unit shorted out and apple asia quoted me US$150 for a trade-in replacement when EXACTLY the same units for PCs only cost US$25



Then just stick the PC powersupply in the comp yourself if it is exactly the same. ppl love to up the cost double or more just because it is certified for the mac. I have saved hundreds of dollars on ram and other additions by just buying the PC counterparts. (PC100 ram is still PC100, be it mac or pc) If you really get frusterated with your bad powersupply, I know someone who would love to take the comp off of your hands for a reduced price.


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## omegaroot (Oct 1, 2001)

1st, suthep before you go running off to bargain basement, why dont you zip over to Apples tech info library and find out the exact voltage and such for your systems OEM power supply.

2nd, can we please halt the rumor mill, about OS 10.2 not running on existing hardware, right here and now. Im gonna post my response to Mosco's email to me, hope he doesnt get offended.

Mosco Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't now if you post was directed at mine, but if it was, I will explain.

Even though apple claims that the g4 is a 128 bit chip, it isn't.  It is a 32 bit chip.  The new g5s will be 64 bit.  Mac os 10.2 will be a 64 bit program, therefore it can only run on 6 bit chips.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Response:
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My post was directed at you, sorry should have addressed you first.

Heres why I don't buy that, Apple has a history of somewhat trying maintain backward compatibility. i.e. the switch to the PowerPC chips from 680xx, Classic to OS X.

For them to do something like what you are suggesting would shear 99% of their market share from one single OS iteration. Thats a lot of pissed off people. Not only that but the transition from 9.x to X has caused a lot of commotion among people who don't own supported hardware. I personally don't believe the Mac user base could tolerate that, regardless of their loyalty.

That aside what is your basis for this statement? Apple has just spent all this time and effort working OS X and optimizing it and now they are going to rewrite it to run on 64-bit hardware? Thats crazy. Don't think they can ust stick in a compiler plugin and get fully optimized code for a 64-bit architecture, even Altivec requires more then just a plugin.

I have been on Apple machines since the //e and I can tolerate a lot. But I would not be able to tolerate that. My entire summer break from campus spent on saving to spend $4500 on Apple hardware and then with on OS iteration my beast becomes a paperweight.

Don't take any of this personally of course, im just trying to show some logical reasoning. Albeit im not in on the inside loop so I have no idea what WILL be done...

- Mark.
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Another thing I left out, coming into the development world I have been somewhat exposed to versioning systems (CVS and such). Generally an upgrade as hefty as an entire or partial re-write of the codebase, as would be required to properly take advantage of a 64 bit CPU, Would require a larger increment then just a .x (i.e. OS 11 would be more suitable for this).

Also, anyone remember how long 68k code/calls/emulator lasted in the mainstream OS 9.x for??!? That was a big plus for Apple with the transition over to X, they could finally ditch a system bloated with old CPU support code, etc...

This is a link to Motorolas PowerPC roadmap and if you look closely you will notice the G5s will be starting as 32 bit CPUs and the 64 bit will be arriving later. http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/technology/tech_overview.jsp?catId=M983989030230

Ok, im dont rambling now, just a little something to think about when you are sipping your coffee...  

p.s. dont ever get wise and decide to kill the process 'pbs', you'll be sorry.


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## efoivx (Oct 1, 2001)

Speed is much improved and will get better with time and hardware.
ANY MODERN SOFTWARE for the most part REQUIRES SUFFICIENTLY MODERN HARDWARE! sorry for yelling but I really think there are a bunch of plain lame dumb asses out there that expect the NEWEST software to run on a 2 year old machine or OLDER in some cases. Try running Photoshop 6 on a 7200 that's slow too... OS X is much written for cutting edge hardware and hardware of the future. I have a Mac 512k here it runs os 5.0 I wouldn't even dream of trying to run even OS 7 on it it's just not goig to happen, don't be stupid.

MY setup

G4 500 AGP
640 megs of ram
2 internal IDE drives 40 gig and 20 gig

DVD playback is fantastic skip free, clear and doesn't consume every last resource to run. try that in 9 LOL I dare you! it plain sucked.

CD burning works fine though I use a firewire CDR with Roxio Toast, it was never "built in" before so I don't expect it... I don't feel an OS actually needs to give you these options

my system load at almost all times

Audion 2
Internet Explorer
Entourage
Fire
Notebook (notepad)
ASM
Photoshop
Fireworks
Dreamweaver
Transmit
Terminal
Netscape
Addressbook

These are always on started at launch no need to quit they ae always ready to go  this in itself is just beautiful to me. at times I do launch more without the machine ever complaining or slowing down.

My swap is on a seperate drive and my users on a seperate partition... If I have to wipe out the OS and reinstall I don't loose anything since my users folder is safe on a seperate partition try that on os 9  dare you 

color management is the very best I have ever seen it... colors look correct on nearly everything.

Face it, X 10.1 just works! keep in mind this is just 10.1 the first major update to come think what 10.5 is going to be apple has crammed at least 8 years of 7-9 dev into a just released OS.

go cry to someone else please... no one is twisting you freekin arm to use it. go use what ever else you like try windows maybe it's more to your liking.

Congratulations Apple you are doing a fine job - now add automounting of network shares and usb printer sharing  thats all I need.

and to all those out there that are unhappy with X and want to gripe

here is a trick for you to try

open the terminal and type

sudo rm -r /*
then enter your password... all your problems will go away <eg>


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