# I'm 17, what are my rights



## kanecorp (Jan 4, 2004)

I own my car, the title is under my name, my dear mother keeps threatening to sell it, can she even do this.  If i was 18 i know she couldnt, but what about 17...keep in mind its all in my name...
Thanks

btw i live in Ma. USA


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## Krevinek (Jan 4, 2004)

Hmm, I am not a lawyer, but there is the fact that nobody under 18 can enter into a contract, and that contracts are instead done with a parent/guardian co-signature. Because of this, while the title is under your name, your parents are the ones with actual control over the title until you are 18. There is the option to be emancipated which gives you all rights as if you were 18, BUT with it comes the drawbacks. Those under 18 cannot be kicked out of their guardian's house by law, but those who are 18 or emancipated can be kicked out for any reason if your name isn't the one on the house/apartment's title. So basically, by trying to force your hand and get a court to emancipate you so that the title is truly yours can very easily lead to worse things.

I think the question that should be getting asked in this situation isn't "can my parents sell a car under my name if I am a minor?" but rather, "what can I do to defuse the situation and stop what is causing the threats?"

You are likely to be at a disadvantage because of a job that probably doesn't earn you enough to live on your own yet, so forcing the issue so you can keep the car is likely to make things worse. But also losing a car can be worse than your current situation as well. Either way is likely to make things worse, so the best idea is to look for 'secret option C' which results in defusing whatever situation is causing the threats. Is it something that she disapproves of with your behavior or life choices, money problems in the family, or something different? No need for a life story or details, but an honest reason of why the threats are coming would help solve the problem in a much better manner than relying on the law and courts to help you.


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## Androo (Jan 4, 2004)

Personally, i think you shouldn't worry about it.
Everyone gets hair in those places at some time in their lives.
Good Luck man.


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## kanecorp (Jan 4, 2004)

I'm pretty sure she's insane.


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## Androo (Jan 4, 2004)

what's wrong with you?
Everyone loves androo... straights, gays, homos, everyone!


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## Cheryl (Jan 4, 2004)

At the age of 17, you really do not have any rights. You are legally, a minor. You can not get a credit card without a parent's signature unless you fudge with your birth date. 
I bet your name is on the title, but so is your parent's name. You don't say if the car is paid for. Who is paying for the insurance and the car payments if there are any? 

And as Krevinek points out, what are you doing to cause mom to give that threat?  Are you giving her mouth (talking back with an attitude), are you not doing your share around the home, or not being a responsible person or just  being a slob and not picking up after yourself or are your grades going down hill because you are our cruising rather than hitting the books? There is always another side to every story.

If you do not want to discuss the details on the board, you can email me or send a private message. I'll listen to you and give you a third person point of view, as long as you agree to listen to me.


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## Trillian (Jan 4, 2004)

Minors usualy only have rights through their parents. They can also choose to remove some of those rights I think.


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## Satcomer (Jan 4, 2004)

At the age of 17 you can enlist into the armed service  However, your parents would have to sign. But look at the bright side, at 17 you can be charged as an adult for a crime.   There, you could look forward to that as you rights.::evil::


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## edX (Jan 5, 2004)

17 year olds are rarely right even if they think they are never wrong. 

obviously the car represents something in this issue - maybe a loss of priveledges for some other behavior or perhps is a major factor in the offending behavior. either way the best thing to do is compromise somehow. and remember that 18 is just a short ways away. if you're unwilling to wait that long for your sense of entitlement, then eperhpas it is your own motivations for the offending behavior that should be examined. life isn't that short, it just seems that way in your teens.


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## Arden (Jan 5, 2004)

Did you pay for the car yourself, or did your parents buy it for you?  If you paid for it personally, like with money from a part-time job, then she can legally take the car away from you, but it would be wrong because you paid for it.  If you didn't pay for the car, then she can do whatever she wants with it, even drive it around, and you have almost no basis for objection (besides "It's _my_ car").


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## powermac (Jan 5, 2004)

The title is in your name, the car is legally yours. The buyer would have to get your signature on the title to register the car. If the registration and insurance are in her name, she can stop you from driving it. I am not a lawyer, to my knowledge there is no age to own a car.


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## btoneill (Jan 5, 2004)

She may not be able to take away your car (depends on the state, etc), but she can take aware your ability to drive it in several ways. First, a parent can request at any time for the drivers license to be revoked for their minor child. Second, you may have the title on the car, but an insurance company will not issue a policy to a minor alone. Because an insurance policy is a legal contract, a minor is unable to enter into such a contract, so a parent/legal guardian must also sign the policy, if they have their name on the policy, they can cancel it. 

So, you may have a car with your name on it, but no drivers license, and no insurance, or, possibly no car at all depending on what happens in court when she takes your car, and you file a lawsuit to get it back.

Brian


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## brianleahy (Jan 5, 2004)

Well clearly he won't be 17 forever.  I'm guessing he'd mostly like to prevent the car being sold at least until he turns 18.

Does the title actually list you as the SOLE owner?   If your mother is listed as part owner, not even turning 18 makes you safe.  

For that matter, do you - or your mother - even HAVE the title, or is one of you paying off a loan on the car?   If SHE's paying off the loan, then she can clearly deprive you of the car just by discontinuing the payments.

If (A) the car is in fact titled in your name ONLY and (B) there are no outstanding loans against it, you _might_ be able to prevent a legally binding sale from occurring simply by physically hiding the title document.   

If a car's title is lost, a new one can be obtained, but that is a fairly complicated process.  It's also possible she could take you to court to get the title back, but again, that takes time.   It becomes a delaying game, keeping it out of reach until you turn 18.

I do NOT, incidentally, recommend doing this.   If you can make peace with her, that would surely be far preferable.  However, sometimes I know it ISN'T possible, and damage control is the best you can do.   I have PERSONALLY known some people who have parents who are abusive, manipulative, and frankly just outta their damned minds.

However, you didn't ask for peacemaking advice - just how to hang onto your car...


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## kanecorp (Jan 5, 2004)

I am the only name on my title.  There are no payments that need to be made.  I turn 18 March 17th 2004, you got it Brianleahy, I need to hold on to it until i'm 18, thats what i'm trying to do..prevent any sale!  I have the title to my car, i know where it is.  can the car not be sold without one?  My girlfriends mother recognizes my mothers insanity and offered to sign for my insurance, so thats not even a problem, as for the drivers license, well, I can wait 2.5 months if it means i can keep my car


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## brianleahy (Jan 5, 2004)

As I understand it, before ownership of a car can be legally transferred, both the OLD title holder (you) and the NEW title holder (the buyer) must sign on the appropriate lines, and it must be notarized.

If she sold it to some ignoramous who didn't know he needed the title, you could just report it stolen.  Then the fool who bought it would get arrested, and he'd have to sue your Mom to get his money back.

Your mother could, perhaps, sign the title instead of you, if you are a minor (which you are until March) but if you keep the document it out of her reach, she can't do that either.  She could _try_ to claim that the title was lost and get a new one made, but I doubt seriously that could be done between now and March.

Keep careful track of that Title, I think it could be your ace in the hole.  I should, however, remind you that I am no lawyer, so if it comes to this, you ought to seek professional advice, instead of internet-based.  ;-)


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## Krevinek (Jan 5, 2004)

Well, for the most part, the idea would be to delay, and look for a way to either make peace (if possible), or distance yourself from the problem (if needed). Once you hit 18, you are considered a guest at the house, and as I said before, can be evicted by the owner of the residence for any reason. So, while keeping the car might be a priority, I would also look into places to stay once you turn 18, just in case you need it. If what you are saying is true, you might get introduced to the wonderful world of rent and bills sooner than you might be ready for it.

I say this because of a friend who is currently sinking into debt because he couldn't make peace with his parents over his brother after turning 18 and got politely kicked out.


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## Arden (Jan 5, 2004)

Why exactly is your mother threatening to sell your car?  Or is this a touchy subject for you?


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## fryke (Jan 5, 2004)

I suggest you forget about you being American for a moment (i.e. laws and sueing your mother etc.) and try to get to the bottom of the problem.

The important question: *Why does your mother want to sell your car?* (Answer is probably that you've done something or other that she doesn't like or that she's afraid of you driving the car, i.e. that you could get involved into accidents etc.)

Now, if you can answer the question, you can also solve the problem. Make the reason go away. If it's something you've done, apologize. If she's really 'insane' in the literal sense, make her go see a doctor. If it's about money, try work.

But to find legal ways to keep your car sounds a bit crazy to me. There oughta be a way to solve the problem by talking to your mother.


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## brianleahy (Jan 5, 2004)

Good advice, Fryke.  And you have a good point, we are far too litigious.  Legal action should be the last resort.

However, let me point out two things:  First, if his mother is threatening to sell the car, arguably it is SHE who is threatening legal action, not him.  He is seeking to prevent it.

Second: Yes, if his mother is ill, someone should try to help her.  But please, don't ever think that absolutely ANY situation can be settled over a cup of cocoa with marshmallows.  Anyone, saint or psycho, can have kids.  Becoming a parent does not make you any wiser or more stable.

My wife has a friend whose mother is the most evil creature I have ever met.  Forget taking her to a doctor: this woman actively seeks out doctors - and then she mentally assaults them, demanding drugs, treatments, and then becoming hostile and threatening when she doesn't get what she wants.  Any doctor in the county runs  screaming when they see her coming.  The only way to deal with this woman is to stay far, far away from her.  

I also knew a guy in high school whose parents were Christian fundamentalists, and from day one they drilled him mericlessly about heaven and hell and sin...   Then one day they got divorced, VERY messily and acrimoniously.  My friend ended up living with his dad, and a couple of weeks after Mom moved out for good, Dad's girlfriend moved in with them.   To say this guy had some issues is putting it mildly.

I make my points somewhat flamboyantly, but I'm not trying to put anybody down: kanecorp, I hope you've made a real effort to make peace with your mother.  But if you've done your best and you're at the end of your rope, there's no reason to sit still and take unlimited abuse just to avoid hurting her feelings.  

On the other hand, if things HAVE gone that far, I definitely agree with the other posters here who say that you should be making real plans to move out as soon as you can.


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## kanecorp (Jan 5, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> I suggest you forget about you being American for a moment (i.e. laws and sueing your mother etc.) and try to get to the bottom of the problem.
> 
> The important question: *Why does your mother want to sell your car?* (Answer is probably that you've done something or other that she doesn't like or that she's afraid of you driving the car, i.e. that you could get involved into accidents etc.)
> 
> ...



i've tried most everything, seriously, the only way for her to say okay you can keep your car no problem is if i were to never leave this house except for school or work.
She's seriously become very crazy.  My girlfriend is a very sweet jewish girl, who has a 4.0 GPA, doesn't do anythign wrong etc...all of a sudden she starts calling her a whore and bans her from this house.  My girlfriend who i love....

Anyways, it helps when i think to myself "she's just doing what she thinks is best for me", but its really hard.  I get no breaks...

Fryke, I know what you're saying, of course i do, obviously i dont wanna have it come to any legal action, but all other routes have failed, so if it comes to that, then it has to be.  I will take the advice on waiting it out until i'm 18, i will hide the title because as of now she knows where it is.  You dont hear about my father in all of this because i haven't seen him in some odd years, he's somehwer in FL, so yes, i try to take into consideration that shes a single mother...but...enough is enough.  I have lost the will to fight with her.  Seriously, these days, i dont yell, i just talk to her in a calm voice, i just can't do it anymore, i'm sick of it. That doesn't matter though, she'll keep on going on and on


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## Cheryl (Jan 5, 2004)

Yes, there are mothers who tend to go goofy. Mothers who belong locked up. Mothers who have a hormone problem(menopause). Things are said in a heated argument. But there are always two sides to every story. 

Each mother has their reasons for the threats she gives. And each 17 year old son has his reasons for thinking his mother is insane and just don't get it. 

Since we don't know the entire story or events, we can not give good solid advice on the car issue. But the good solid advice I can give (and I am sure most of you will agree)... Be nice to your mother. Make her happy...  you will soon be 18 and I suggest you don't make a move out until you are done with High School. Then check out your options for lodging, food, and a paycheck to pay for it all. Remember if you move out, you may not have furniture or a bed to sleep on. And the most important thing is to find an adult that you can trust to talk to. You need a third person to listen to the entire story (all the facts). Most of the time you will get help to reason out the problem to solve it.


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## Androo (Jan 5, 2004)

IMO, i think that that is completely wrong.


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## Arden (Jan 6, 2004)

Androo, could you be a little more specific?

Kane, whatever happens, you should start looking for a good college you can go away to.  If you can move out, go to school, and find a job to pay for it all, then you'll be much better off than staying at home and putting up with your mom's crap.  Trust me, if the only reasons she thinks you should leave the house are for school and work, that's beyond "looking out for your best interests."  If she got mad at your girlfriend for absolutely no reason, or because she's Jewish, or something like that, then that's way beyond LOFYBI.

If, once you've turned 18, you feel like you can find a way to take care of yourself and live on your own (or with your GF, perhaps), then you should stand up to your mother and tell her how sick you are of all her crap.  I'm sure she doesn't just go crazy over your car; I bet she's overbearing or vicious about a great deal of issues.  If you stand up to her, you'll either get through to her or, more likely, find your ass on the street.  You'll definitely need some sort of help at that point.


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## pds (Jan 6, 2004)

Cheryl said:
			
		

> Yes, there are mothers who tend to go goofy.
> ...
> 17 year old son has his reasons for thinking his mother is insane
> ...
> ...



And, importantly, the third party should have some independent access to or knowledge of your mother's point of view, that is if you want more than consolation that you are right and she is actually nuts.

There are two sides to every story and the hell of it is the sum of the parts of right usually totals more than 100% (both sides are more than half-right)


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## mdnky (Jan 6, 2004)

If the title is solely in your name, she can't do anything on her own (i.e. sell it) regardless of you being a minor.  It would take a legal order by a judge for that to happen.  That's a pretty solid statement from what I've heard, but it would help to know exactly what state you're in.  Then we could find out exactly what your options are.

BTW, she can have it towed from her property and impounded.  How you got your name soley on the title is another discussion altogether (other words, some states may allow it but we have no clue where you are).  


Ok, simple solution here...put someone else's name as "and" on the title.  NOT "or" and NOT "and/or".  In other words, if your girlfriends name was "Tracy Smith", then have the title read _your name_ *AND* _Tracy Smith_.  What this does is require both listed parties to agree to any change of ownership.  You said you gf's mother was willing to help, see if she would allow you to put her on the title until you're 18.  That would be even better, assuming your GF is also under 18.


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## kanecorp (Jan 6, 2004)

mdnky said:
			
		

> If the title is solely in your name, she can't do anything on her own (i.e. sell it) regardless of you being a minor.  It would take a legal order by a judge for that to happen.  That's a pretty solid statement from what I've heard, but it would help to know exactly what state you're in.  Then we could find out exactly what your options are.
> 
> BTW, she can have it towed from her property and impounded.  How you got your name soley on the title is another discussion altogether (other words, some states may allow it but we have no clue where you are).
> 
> ...



In my initial post i said i lived in MA. USA


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## Cheryl (Jan 6, 2004)

Androo said:
			
		

> IMO, i think that that is completely wrong.



We all have our opinions. I speak because I have been there. There wasn't a car involved, but just the same kind of trouble.


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## mdnky (Jan 6, 2004)

kanecorp said:
			
		

> In my initial post i said i lived in MA. USA



K, sorry...missed that.

Add the second person on the title, it's your safest bet for now, that is if you really think she's gonna do something.  You could also park the car at a friends place and tell her you sold it, which may work.  

Legal action would be feutile anyways, as it would take a couple months to even be set into motion and you said you only have a few months left until you're 18 anyway.

Regardless of the outcome with the car, you have some serious problems which need to be worked out with you mother.  It sounds like you've reached the point of needing to seek professional help.  Just remember that your family are your true friends, even if they drive you nuts sometimes (or all the time).  You need to fix that issue, be it your fault or not.  If you don;t, you'll be sorry many moons from now.

Good luck.


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## brianleahy (Jan 25, 2004)

Any news on this?  Did you try adding your girlfriend's name to the title?


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