# MacXP.net



## serpicolugnut (Apr 18, 2002)

Man, this is gettin' ridiculous. 

MacXP.net 

Not only are XP users ripping off Aqua, but now they're ripping off our alternative themes like Sosumi!

Let's start looting themexp.org for OS X themes!


----------



## voice- (Apr 18, 2002)

What's worse, some guy tried to fight back by making a OS X theme looking like Windows XP...he couldn't do it. It looked too much like XP, so no'one wanted to use it


----------



## ksuther (Apr 18, 2002)

That's disgusting! Windoze users say they hate Mac's and OS X so much, and then they run out and copy it


----------



## Nummi_G4 (Apr 18, 2002)

-- removed by Twyg 4.19.02 --


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 18, 2002)

Time to flood the membership rolls again guys. First, make sure you join windowsaddict.com and see if we can become the controlling force there. Next, join up on this one and flood the shout-out board.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 18, 2002)

Personally, I think Luna blows chunks. However, the "Silver" version of it is OK, other than those HUGE Open/Minimize/Close Window Widgets. 

I have seen some nice third party themes for XP, but I don't think any of them are very condusive to getting actual work done with them. I mean, they look nice, but after 5 minutes of trying to use them, your eyes would be tired from all the eye candy.

Right now, my current fave theme for OS X is "Grey Aqua". Basically Aqua just darkened up a little, to offset the harshness of the white. It's very nice....

Of interesting note: Remember the Hi-Tech theme from OS 8.5 that never saw and "official" release from Apple? It's being developed for OS X, and should be available very soon over at XThemination .


----------



## designer (Apr 18, 2002)

What are they thinking?

I don't like idea of copying Aqua theme for WinXP because people will think Window is better OS and Apple is good at making Skin.

Yes, there are some stuffs that don't work on Mac but I think Mac is better OS than Win.

Yes, there is some problem with Mac in term of Web developing.


----------



## Nummi_G4 (Apr 18, 2002)

Yeah... blue Luna is crap.  Made by FisherPrice.


----------



## fryke (Apr 18, 2002)

nice thread, erh... not.

how can one say that 'windows users say mac is bad and then copy the gui'? this is about one or two people making those themes. you'll also find one or two mac guys trying to make mac os x look like windows. happened before, happens right now. doesn't mean that you would say 'hey look, mac users think windows stinks but then they copy the gui', right?

themeing is for people who are never content with the look of their computers. and for people who don't have actual work to do. period.


----------



## QuackingPenguin (Apr 18, 2002)

> Yes, there is some problem with Mac in term of Web developing.



What problems with web developing? I have been developing websites for myself & others for about 12 months now, and i've recently (Thanks LordCoven) started using PHP and MySQL as well. And guess what!? I do it all on a mac. SHOCK HORROR! a Mac can be used for something CREATIVE? something ARTISTIC?
unless im mistaken Macs are the most popular computers for artists who want to be able to do what they want, when they want without worrying about conflicts and all the shit with windows. (with the exception of SGI etc, for VERY HIGH-end video)

List the problems that exist for a web-developer using a Mac, and presumably MacOS X.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 18, 2002)

> themeing is for people who are never content with the look of their computers. and for people who don't have actual work to do. period.



Fryke, what a completely untrue, overreaching statement you've just made. I choose to theme OS X because quite simply, after hours of use, Aqua's whiteness just grates on my nevrves. That's why I've settled on using either SilverFox, Sosumi, or more recently, GreyAqua. They all solve this problem. Most people who theme OS X do it for this main reason. Plus, the greyness of the aformentioned themes provides more of a color neutral environment when designing in Photoshop, which most graphic designers desire.

The funny thing is, back when I was using OS 8-9, I never themed the OS, and just used Platinum, even though there were hundreds of schemes/themes available.



> Yes, there is some problem with Mac in term of Web developing.



Again, another bogus statement. I'm a web designer/developer, and although there is a Windows box on my desk, I never use it for anything more than just checking how my site looks in Windows. That's it.

I'll give you that under OS 9, Web Development tools were lacking, but under X, we've got just about every tool out there you could want. The one glaring omission is a native version of Dreamweaver, which is coming at the end of the month.


----------



## dricci (Apr 18, 2002)

Oops!


----------



## designer (Apr 18, 2002)

I didn't mean that Mac is not right tool for web developing. 

I am just saying that there is a lot of stuff that has to be ported to OSX.

I am web developer myself who has to use Win 2K at work and Mac at home 

Yes, PHP and Mysql are perfect solution for small and medium size business. But, what about big fish? Such as Amazon, Macwarehouse etc...

Even Macwarehouse.com is ASP 

I know, I know, Apple has Webobject but Apple should push hard to make OS X as Enterprise solution.

Thank you.

P.S. I love my Mac and X.


----------



## AdmiralAK (Apr 18, 2002)

what a bunch of lamers.
they say immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but when people say macs and macosx suck, I dont see how they can copy our interface.


----------



## rhale1 (Apr 18, 2002)

Can't Apple do something. It is a copyright (Aqua and the GUI), isn't it? But if they start with the Mac on Windows themes, then the themes for OS X would probably get cracked down on.

Still, the Aqua-Mail and other "Aqua" apps look so close to Mail.app (& etc), that Apple should be able to do something about it.

Look at Aqua Mail 

The About Box (*look at the © and )

Another knock off 

And one more


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 18, 2002)

Woo hoo!!!!

They got shut down. I think I might have accidentally sent an email to Apple.


----------



## symphonix (Apr 18, 2002)

Heh heh ... good work guys!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 18, 2002)

Score one for the good guys!

Next stop for Apple - themexp.org...

Go get 'em Steve!


----------



## WoLF (Apr 18, 2002)

This thread is making me sick, seeing all these PC users trying to imitate the mac! IMO I hate the XP themes. The suck so much ass. I love to theme my mac, and I would never want to make it look more like a PC. I'm proud that I'm a mac user, and I don't want to change that. meh 

to Fryke: yes you only see 1 or 2 users trying to copy a windows theme, no more than that.


----------



## Dazzla (Apr 19, 2002)

The site isn't down, it was a joke.

I happen to know one of the people who setup the site and he's not a Mac basher at all, he's got a mac but when he has to work on his PC he wants a little bit of mac there as well. 

There are a lot of Mac users in this postition and not everyone wants to be stuck with default XP themes/apps etc.


I think all this bashing is a bit immature if you ask me.


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

I'm sure Apple Copyright/Legal is investigating the matter. They don't seem to friendly to aqua stealers


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dazzla _
> *The site isn't down, it was a joke.
> 
> I happen to know one of the people who setup the site and he's not a Mac basher at all, he's got a mac but when he has to work on his PC he wants a little bit of mac there as well.
> ...



hey Dazzla, nice 2 see u here dude!  (hows that iMac?! )
... i completely agree with u! ... these guys here are usually FAR From immature, but this time, MAN! ... U Guys need to get a grip! Just Because XP is beginning 2 look good, (as much as u'd like 2 disagree! ) ... hehe! 

...Oh, and Yea, Dazzla, i'm With Tim, and U'reself, when we talk of XP theming! ... Why Have a Crappy Luna UI, for the sake of a few DLL's and exe's?   

... << Big Up 2 MacXP.Net >> ...

NeYo

...Oh, and Aqua-Soft!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 19, 2002)

NeYo - for a minute there I thought you were Herve!  

(BTW - where has our European friend gone? Haven't seen him lately...)

For the record, nobody here seems to have a problem with XP's ability to be themed. But for a site to go up with no other purpose than to provide XP users with tools to make XP look like OS X, than Apple has a legitimate beef. and although yesterday's "Closing" was a hoax, you can bet that Apple's lawyers are going to hear about this sooner than later, and shut these pimps down.

Personally, I find it really pathetic that some XP users go well out of their way to theme XP to the point that it looks, and somewhat acts like OS X. But I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 19, 2002)

If I steal someone's clothes in order to look like them, is it flattery or theivery?


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

If you want Aqua, buy a Mac, don't *steal* Apple's GUI. I don't care if you don't like the XP Luna stuff. If you don't like it, then don't use XP, or find a legal theme to replace it. That's what it comes down to. As for the OS X Luna themes, Microsoft has every right to contact the makers of the theme and demand it be removed. Although from what I've seen, Luna looks better on OS X than on XP!  Maybe because the Mac people working on it put more effort into it than Microsoft does? 

BTW, copyright@apple.com is a valid e-mail address to report violations to, if you feel inclined to do so.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

We didn't steal nothing i am the creator of the site we did nothing aobut copyright crap. we do not steal shit, we are just in service for windows users who think it looks gay. now i know macs are better than windows infact i made that site on my imac so how u going to call me a mac hater. osx is 1000000x better than windows but over all since i'm a gamer i use my xp box. and yes luna is one gay ass skin but some people (*not I) like aqua on xp, i don't use it i just provide it for others. this site isn't doing anything wrong i just think the only problem with macs are their users. most of you are just gay 12yr that are mad that xp can get as pretty as osx so chill and that little hacking post i took aht into some other issues u will be hearing about later. we didn't shut down but we got you mac users hard. and for apple. the only thing they said was to remove the apple logo from any content so BOOOYA!

and have you all read the disclaimer its the big ass block of text! and yall need to realize we are not taking any credit for this stuff we are just doing it for the windows users so give it up!


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

and if ur gonna talk about stealing the gui what about all these mac sites look at www.macnn.com huh they got aqua buttons oooh i need to report them


----------



## ksuther (Apr 19, 2002)

Way to be nice. You would get your point across much better if you would simply talk properly, and not use obscenities every third word. You'll get a lot more respect.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

well this is a windows user rite now we dont have to be all preppy and neat like some people so chill about grammer and stick on the subject


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Timan _
> *well this is a windows user rite now we dont have to be all preppy and neat like some people so chill about grammer and stick on the subject *



Split Personalaty? 

Grammar makes people neat and preppy? Wow, remind me to talk "ghetto street school house" next time I post  

Who were you calling 12 year olds again?


----------



## Gatorzx2 (Apr 19, 2002)

I think you guys are giving mac users a real bad and immature reputation. Sure there are Windows users who hate and bash Macs and vice versa, but i can assure you that windows users who like to give XP an aqua feel are not the ones who hate Macs. They have nothing against Macs, they simply like the look and feel of the OS X GUI. I even think you will find that a lot of them even have Macs themselves. 

I cannot understand what you guys have against Timan, who has both a Mac and a PC, and his site that was built for both MAC and PC users. He is doing no harm there, and it shows how immature some MAC users are by the rude comments you are leaving on his site.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

the ones complaining about my site i see a few supporting and alot not i'm just pissed cause most of you just dont give up. apple must not care if all they said to us was to remove their logo thats it


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

> Ok first off we were not closed but Apple, it was just a joke to see what you Mac users would say, and all I got to say is I fooled you all HARD! The site is still up and its going to be changed a tad. Instead of having icons, theme, etc, we are mainly going to be about the apps we make. Now if there is something big like the Best OS X skin or something we will post it. Well enjoy the site.



"you Mac users" ?

So, you're not a Mac user? This sounds like a pretty Windows-minded statement against Macs. I thought the Windows users who used Aqua "liked Macs." By your statements, you don't seem to.

Why not go back to English class and come back when you have an argument, or a clue? Yes, you're stealing Aqua and making it available to Windows users with Macs, and without. A lot of people don't think that should happen. You want a Mac and it's look? Buy one. Don't like XP? Don't use it.

Remember, Aqua is still Apple's property and they can shut you down anytime in the future they want. They've done it to many other Aqua skin sites, sometimes it took days, or months, but they get to them all.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

mr. dricci i don't care if ur a 3rd grade english teacher but chill with the grammer stuff


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Timan _
> *mr. dricci i don't care if ur a 3rd grade english teacher but chill with the grammer stuff *



Uh oh, you're not "stick(ing) on the subject" !

That was pretty weak defense!


----------



## ksuther (Apr 19, 2002)

Could somebody please close this thread?.... It's getting out of hand. This conversion is just stupid now. It started out as a simple curiosity, and then people started flaming...

Gatorzx2: In what way are we giving Mac users a bad personality? I have absolutely nothing against Tinman, it would just be nice if he could act a little more mature, and type is words properly so we can understand them. We don't need any more Herve's around here than we already have


----------



## Gatorzx2 (Apr 19, 2002)

I said "you guys are giving mac users a real bad and immature reputation", meaning the people who are flaming Timan and spaming his site. Nothing against all Mac users. I'll even be one in a couple of weeks. Just saying a few are acting imature and giving you guys a bad rap.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

yall are the ones that are give mac users a bad names ur acting like 12 yr olds. the only reason i'm pissed is cause i'm getting spammed so damn much its not funny and i'm fu**** sick of it. damn yall should just chill there isnt' anything to be jelous of. just give up the fact that windows can be as pretty as osx!


----------



## Valkyre (Apr 19, 2002)

I never understood why windows users hated mac users. Now I know.

First off, I own a mac, and a windows machine. I hate the default look on Windows XP so skin it to look like OS X. There is a difference between ripping off Apple and calling it your own work (Microsoft), or copying the look of OS X for personal use. Mac emulation sites do not make any money from what they do.

I have already had 5 people I know who were die hard windows lovers and mac haters, turn into mac users themselves. They have all bought a new macs with OS X on it and they are never going back to Windows.

So think about it, using the OS X look to skin Windows and other windows based applications, your actually driving windows users to macintosh. It's free promotion for Apple.

Feel free to prove me wrong at any point.


----------



## Maniac (Apr 19, 2002)

This is just ridiculous!!
I mean come on, this almost look like a Hitler world domination speach!!! So what if windows user copy the Aqua theme? Personally I don't like mac computers and prolly never will, but the theme is pretty, yeah so what, I prefer eye candy to fisher price looks! Plus, even OSx is a rewritten verion of another OS... Nobody flamed mac for basing it's next gen OS on an existing OS (Yeah sorry... forgot the name of it... but I do know the core, is UNIX) So if some people like the core of Windows but like the looks of aqua... Let them be and don't flame a website for providing other users with the ability to do so.


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

Skinning Windows XP or any other Windows version to look like OS X is just sad. Windows runs 10x slower when skinned (or 5x, it doesn't matter, it just runs slower), so why don't you just get OS X?


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

To prove the maniac wrong:




> *
> Plus, even OSx is a rewritten verion of another OS... Nobody flamed mac for basing it's next gen OS on an existing OS (Yeah sorry... forgot the name of it... but I do know the core, is UNIX) So if some people like the core of Windows but like the looks of aqua... Let them be and don't flame a website for providing other users with the ability to do so. *



No, OS X in *not* a rewritten version of another OS. It runs *over* darwin (that's what it's called).


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Windows users can be very arrogant and uninformed and are more likely to flame or troll people. But mac users can be annoying sometimes as well.

I think we should all just stop here and cool down. That goes for both sides.

And stop argueing about grammar. It is a good thing to write properlly, but stop flaming over it. That goes for both sides.

About the actual issue, I think that if they want to do this then they can. I think the same thing - "Get a mac!". Obvously some of the people responding here have, which is good. I dont have a big problem with that. Athough I would find it kind of humourous if one of these aqua skin users were to turn around and say "macs suck" .

So can we all please be reasonable and considerate. Both sides here are looking stupid. So lets disscuss this, just not flame about it.

OK?


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

Common sense always wins internet flame arguments. So let's use some, shall we?


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Maniac _
> *This is just ridiculous!!
> I mean come on, this almost look like a Hitler world domination speach!!! So what if windows user copy the Aqua theme? Personally I don't like mac computers and prolly never will, but the theme is pretty, yeah so what, I prefer eye candy to fisher price looks!*



You're ridiculous. You are stealing from Apple in this case. Apple pays *MILLIONS* in UI design and the only way they can make it back is product sales. So you haven't given them any money, so you're stealing.

Don't like Macs but like Aqua. That is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. Don't like XP's look? Don't use it. Want Aqua? Buy a Mac and fund the company who is making it.

Sorry to keep fanning the flames but this is a perfect example of Windows users just using it with no intent of buying a Mac. And I'm sure there's many more.


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

Hey, guys! Twyg is this (---) close to closing this thread. Can you guys stop flaming each other???


----------



## dricci (Apr 19, 2002)

I think it needs to be closed.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

hey xoot, I invented the "this (---) close thing" .

Yes stop flaming, and this probably should be closed.


----------



## twyg (Apr 19, 2002)

Thread closed.

Next time a windows user comes here and touts his site let's try to remain a little bit "cooler". 

This is why mac users get a bad rap, let's not feed the fire.

If you want to continue this discussion by all means do, but not in this thread...


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

common sense is not so common


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Ahem, this thread is over, done, complete, fini, deceased, no longer in active, etc.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

Hey Man, as Far as i am aware, its Open Still?
hehe! ... 

NeYo


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

i'd like 2 thank MacXP.Net ... Along with Other Peeps, for Transforming my Windows XP, into something far more Special! 
(hehe) 







 

NeYo


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

show them the genie!!!


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Ok, I'm not going to attempt to argue with that, because it is technically still open . twyg can deal with it if he wants.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

Did Any1 See "Genie" ? .. hmmm .. 

NeYo


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

aww how purdy


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

Neyo, Aquafied Windows XP is worse than the real thing. I can't even begin telling how bad it is... 


The genie effect minimizes to the itunes icon
When you do the magnification effect in the dock, it is all fuzzy...

Anyone wanna add (to persuade NeYo to get a Mac?)


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

I have to defend neyo here. He is getting a mac.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xoot _
> *Neyo, Aquafied Windows XP is worse than the real thing. I can't even begin telling how bad it is...
> 
> 
> ...



LOL! ... Dude, as much as u want 2, Errr... Criticise elements of my setup, i feel it is a LONG way from Luna ... and i am satisfied, until i get better methods and Software, to make it more OS X Like ...

As for the Mac thing! ... dude, i HAD a G3 500MHz iBook, which i SOLD ...i'm now Saving for a SuperDrive iMac .. So  LOL! 

NeYo


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *I have to defend neyo here. He is getting a mac. *



Thanks Man! 

NeYo


----------



## xoot (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *
> 
> LOL! ... Dude, as much as u want 2, Errr... Criticise elements of my setup, i feel it is a LONG way from Luna ... and i am satisfied, until i get better methods and Software, to make it more OS X Like ...
> ...



Cool, NeYo.  I din't know you were saving up for a new iMac. I hope you get it soon!


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xoot _
> *
> 
> Cool, NeYo.  I din't know you were saving up for a new iMac. I hope you get it soon!  *



hmm... Well, the summer @ the earliest! ..i am TRYING 2 Work a way, 2 Get Back that iBook, So i have a Mac, Previous 2 my iMac... but i dunno! i guess i have 2 Wait! < sigh >

NeYo


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 19, 2002)

Timan you aint showen no luv. Its just str8 disrespect. I read what they have to say and they have a point and on your site the  impression it imprints upon the reader  is disrespect. If you would have come at it in a different you would have never received all the hate. But since your not willing to take the time and do it right, show luv back then deal with all the retaliation thats headed your way. This will never end and now that your pushing the issue further you know these people are going to  spread the word and make your site and your life a living HELL (well as much as you possibly can by the means of  e-mail  ). Don't you know who we are, does not our reputation precede us!. If I were you I'd add to the statement that tells the Mac users that you have all the respect in the world for OSX and best of all that you your self are a Mac users. I know you may have said this all before but your some common sense and let that be the first thing users see when they go to your site. I personally think its mad funny and cool as fuck that your destroying XP platform by dressing it up as much as you possibly can with OSX .Writting over someone else's frame, and who better then his rival Apple. Tag the shit out of Wintel 
boxes desecrate defecate all over Bill Gate's pride and joy your actually helping more than you know. Thanks Timan and I have a feeling many Mac users understand this too.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

let me ask you this. why do you care what windows users do to their machine. i mean if they want to have it like osx there is nothing in the world that can stop them. i just hate the fact that people with the real deal hate it. See i used to be on the team of Aqua-Soft.org about a year ago where they were the first site to fully make ur windows into osx *looks of course. anyway i used to have my machine look like osx then i gave up and bought a mac *SEE APPLE IS MAKING MONEY! Then once i got osx i was like hell i hate all the windows users making their system look like something it could never be, to tell the truth there isn't anything current that looks that good as aqua on the mac. but then over a month i gave up with the whole anti windows, i still use my windows machine now but i'll be damned if i'll try and make it look like a mac. so i do see where yall say buy a mac. i got a mac i luv it more that windows but the mac isn't that great on speed with my system specs so thats why i have this site for others who are so craved over this aqua stuff, and do not have a mac for their reasons of course. just why do yall have to confront me saying aww this site sux aw windows users suck yak yak yak. its not about windows vs. a mac os. if anything its about luna vs. aqua ur pick! for me to make everyone happy would yall want me to take my site down. i mean do you truely care. its really not yalls buiness since u are on macs and not on pcs but if you truely want my site down i will take it into  consideration. now don't say its best for me cause i don't care.


----------



## ksuther (Apr 19, 2002)

I must say, if I were stuck on an XP machine, I'd get it as close to OS X as possible. This thread really needs to be closed...

Tinman: Thanks for acting a little more mature, and not using huge contractions that make your posts hard to decipher


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Yeah tinman, that was very well said. You do have a good point. In a way I have to aggree with you.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

ok sorry about the other stuff i just kinda took it personal my inbox has been flooded about 50 times today and was threaten to be hacked! now that doesn't make me happy but thats like.

small not Timan not tinman  i don't like the wizardofoz


----------



## twyg (Apr 19, 2002)

wow, now everyone is playing nice...

I should say threads are closed more often.


Look, I don't like closing a thread for real, locking out everyone... just play nice, k?

Thank you for pulling yourselves together!


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 19, 2002)

Why all the hate between mac & windows. Its tradition theres nothing like a little hate between family . Keeps llfe intresting. Thats the only reason I can think of the rest is just bullsh*t.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

would you all be happy if i turned macxp into a Mac Vs. Windows site *REALLY! yall seem to be good at fighting for macs it would make it perfect


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Timan, there is probably enough arguements over macs vs. pcs out there... unfortunately.

Oh and sorry about misspelling your name before I just looked at ksuthres post and thats how he spelled it .

Isn't this a much better disscussion now that everyone is nice


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 19, 2002)

Dude your sites gone I cant get too it. What happened


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

refresh i deleted something by mistake

Windows 

(just trying to get on yalls good side  )


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 19, 2002)

There we go, just keep it luv and I'm sure people will come to understand your site.
Good luck.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 19, 2002)

hehe! ...Well Sed TIN-MAN!  

hehe! 
Peace, I'm Out!  
...I'm with Twyg! .. this is an intriguing Thread, and why not Keep it up like this... i think its Cool anyhow?! 

NeYo


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

and the trouble still starts. least i have no problem removing them.



> Dear Sirs,
> 
> I know you guys are just trying to pay homage to OmniWeb and how pretty
> it is, and while we're flattered, we also spent a lot of time and money
> ...




any other request on removing anything let me know they will be removed.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 19, 2002)

Put it back up don't give in their full of sh*t all they can do is ask but if you don't do anything about it then they can do nothing. Apple asked only for you to take down their logo and if they aren't willing to do something then OmniWeb won't either. They dont have a case.

They have to prove that Mac sales losses are because of your icons. No one buys a Mac because of icons and least of all OmniWeb..hahaha. I know you think its better to avoid a lawsuit by taking down your icons but they dont have a leg to stand on.But if you just want to avoid all the crap then just touch up the icons. They don't own cocoa so the browser and color and shape you can keep just change the icons a bit all you have to do is redraw them slightly it doesn't take much for their argument to disappear.  And you still get to keep the feel and look of Aqua.

I really don't see the big dea,  Apple is more than Aqua and icons. Let them have it.

I'm starting to really hate the way mac people behave and how much suppression there is. Now I understand what others have been talking about. Wheres is  the line, I can't see it anymore.


I should also say that its more than just this incident thats starting to sour me against Apple but I wont talk about it thats all I've done is talk about it.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 19, 2002)

Oh no, don't let it start.


----------



## Timan (Apr 19, 2002)

well said but i think i'll turn macxp into something else not sure wat but it will be for both mac and xp users


----------



## starfleetX (Apr 20, 2002)

Don't listen to RedStarr. He obviously doesn't know anything about copyright laws.

 

Timan:
I strongly suggest you visit a lawyer's office for a couple of hours (initial consultations are often free) and show them that "disclaimer" you have and explain what you are trying to do. I bet they'll agree that you're treading on extremely thin ice.


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

i know what you mean but i don't get why my site out of all the aqua sites is being targeted. i mean what is it the best one? i mean aqua-soft.org has been up for over a year. and all apple did was say remove their logo thats it. so i think i'll take my site down but i don't know what i'm gonna do with it.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 20, 2002)

Will Shipley said it best.

This applies to Apple's GUI as well. You WinXP users looking for Aqua GUI replacements may feel you aren't doing anything to harm Apple, but you are. How OS X looks is a key selling point over it's competition (WinXP). If you steal that, you are removing that key selling point, and potentially hurting Apple sales.

It's no different than if some PC case manufacturer came up with a round, half sphere base for their PC and hung a LCD monitor off of a retractable arm. It goes to branding, and it's why Apple was so protective of the original iMac and the "clones" that appeared from eMachines. 

It's also why Apple lost it's original GUI case against Windows. Apple argued that because the Windows OS functioned like the Apple OS, and adopted some of it's features, that it was copying it. However, Microsoft was at least keen enough to not copy the general look of the Mac at the time. Sure, Windows used folders and a trash can, but the widgets looked different enough that it didn't cause confusion with users. And that's where the legal argument is. 

I realize NeYo and Timan are probably teenagers, and don't have much respect for this, but it is very important. Intellectual property is just as protected under the law as physical property. Maintaining a site that provides WinXP users the tools to make their PC's UI mimic that of OS X is intellectual thievery. It hurts Apple, it hurts OS X developers, and it hurt OS X users. We wanted Aqua, and we got a Mac. If you want Aqua, get a Mac. 

And Timan, be clear - it's not the "look" of your site that infringes upon Apple. Yes, MacNN has an "Aqua" look to their osx.macnn.com site. But they do not provide any tools to make Windows look/act like OS X. This is where your site teeters on illegality.

And finally, I have to throw my 2cents in about grammar. If you are Herve and are using a translator to communicate, then bad english is excused. If you are from an English speaking country and can't get a cognitive sentence out via typing, that be prepared to be ridiculed for it. The first impression made upon people is usually in regard to their speaking/grammar skills. If you want everybody to think you're an idiot, than by all means don't pay any attention to your grammar and type in hacker speak. If you do want to be taken seriously, well, take the time and communicate using the english language, not some unknown subset thereof.


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

have you been to the site lately I guess not I should talk about other things, and you should read the whole thread first. I said I removed everything cause I'm sick of this bs from people like you. 
and what's with this age stuff. it doesn't matter, just don't be jealous if someone younger than you knows more and is more intelligent 

oh and by the way i used a spell checker (not everyone is engrish )

ah your the guy that started this thread i'd like to personally thank you!


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 20, 2002)

Yes - I've seen your site recently.

Yes -  I've read this entire thread.

Yes - I'm the one who started it. 



> oh and by the way i used a spell checker (not everyone is engrish )



Obviously, you didn't use a spell checker there. And, if you notice, I didn't criticize your spelling - I criticized your grammar. 

And, no I don't take it personally when someone is younger than me and more intelligent. However, that person is not you. Sorry.

Go ahead and try and make this personal if you wish. If I'm off base about you being a teenager, I apologize. That said, you haven't disputed it, so I'll assume you are. 

There are some Mac posters here who have been a bit harsh, but not nearly as harsh as the Aqua thieves lurking about.

And if you read the beginning of the thread, it was to point out that you had copied the Sosumi theme, which I (and obviously many other Mac users here) felt was humorous. Sorry if the publicity drew attention to your Aqua thievery.


----------



## Valrus (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Timan:_
> *just don't be jealous if someone younger than you knows more and is more intelligent*



Don't be juvenile, please.

And as far as the grammar goes, I know it pains me to read your posts because the grammar is so bad. I don't know what's so hard for people to grasp about this, but it's a fact:

*People take you more seriously when your grammar is good.*

It indicates that you put a little thought into your sentence structure, and hence your argument as well. It's really not that hard to make sure you make sense, and you'll get a lot more respect because of it.

-the valrus


----------



## Duckie (Apr 20, 2002)

I have been lurking in this thread for a little while now, and thought I'd finally give my 2 pennies worth.

(Wasn't this thread officially closed by an admin?  Just kidding.)

Many Mac users have made it abundantly clear to these sites that they are thieves, losers, rippers, themers, lamers, imitators...Well, you get the drift.  Nothing but cut down after cut down.  It was quite sad, really, because as a Mac owner, I know that we usually have a higher caliber of personality among our ranks.  To see such a display of disrespect made me avoid commenting for fear I would be labled one of those 'attackers'.  We are better than that, folks. 

Personally, I own 4 Macs, a MacII Plus, 2 68k machines, and A 7200.  I ALSO own 3 PC's and when I am using them, I find Microsoft's UI clumsy and oafish, so, as a way of combatting the 'less than adequette' UI, I have had to seek out alternatives that give me the interface I am used to.  I have found many of these easy to use apps on these sites, and I can happily say that I am a convert.  No, I don't mean a convert to Windows, but a person who is accepting to this form of flattery.  It makes my life so much easier having the tools I am used to.  (I even found Gimp for x86 recently and I am exstatic.)  

Threatening a site or a person who provides, distributes, or writes these apps is absolutely ridiculous.  Most all of you who complained are losing nothing by their existance.  All your losing is your own personal time, by devoting so much of it to flaming and threatening these sites.  

These apps are flattery, and you not seing that is sad.  Many of you broken records keep touting the "Infringement" aspect, but as I hinted to before, it doesn't infringe on you personally, so how can you be so offended that you would write to Arent Fox?  Isn't that a little extreme?  They are providing apps for us to use when we get stuck on x86 machines at work or home, and they are charging NOTHING for it.  If your so inclined to attack on the merits of infringement, then why not attack http://babya.freehomepage.com/ for their blatant rip-off that they are both charging for, AND calling all the apps by the Mac OS names.  He calls it an OS, but it is a lame VB script.  Or how about http://www.stardock.com/ who provides the Mac OS 8 and OS X appearance in their skins, and they charge for them too!  Regardless, these Babya morons and Stardock thieves deserve your wrath more since they are asking for money, and MacXP, AquaSoft, and more like them NEVER have, and NEVER will.

I admit, the apps have a similar appearance to Apple's design, but isn't that the point?  So we may work easier in the Win32 environment. Stop foaming at the mouths, brothers and sisters. This isn't a "Mac vs. PC" war, it's Mac users helping out fellow Mac users...period.  It was never meant as a slight against Mac OS, Apple, or any of you personally.  

And to those who say it hurts Apple's bottom line by losing them customers, I say your wrong.  Niether myself nor you can provide proof to the contrary, but I would tend to believe that it would help Apple by attracting NEW customers who didnt know what they had to offer before.  Point me to proven statistics other wise and I will concur, but until then, I believe it helps Apple.

Ease up, relax, take a chill pill, whatever...just stop jumping on the "Buy a mac if you want the OS" bandwagon, 'cause if you'd try reading a little, you'd see they already DO have Macs...that's the point.

To those who want to continue the lame war,  see this.

P.S. If your gonna flame or fight, be fair and concise, not barbaric and neanderthal like.


Duckie


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

Oh for gods sake, shut up with the petty grammer arguement! Every time any of you attack someone else it just makes you look stupid so STOP. Maybe twyg should officially close the thread now...


----------



## Valrus (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *Oh for gods sake, shut up with the petty grammer arguement! Every time any of you attack someone else it just makes you look stupid so STOP. Maybe twyg should officially close the thread now... *



Hey man, ya misspelled "grammar" and "argument." 

Seriously though, I'll stop. But I would be lying if I said that bad grammar didn't bother me. It just seems like such a small amount of extra effort for so much more instant credibility.

And I warned everyone that I would be the Grammar Ass here. Maybe I should change my little label from "Made of Dumb."

Or maybe not 

-the valrus


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

i know here  i think this was all over i removed everything and it was all peachy now..... its a different story


just give it up. yall got what yall want and as for grammer CHILL OUT this is the inet now school. 

the only reason i deal with this is cause i visit this site all the time *(i'm a mac user u know)


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

valrus, I err purposely spelled those two words wrong .

It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence.


----------



## dricci (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence. *



Or lack thereof. 

Anyways, no matter how you look at it, it's not flattery, it's copyright infringement. And I don't think it's fair that us Mac users finally get something good and Windows users just steal away because they "don't like Luna." And yes, a lot of Windows users who will never pay Apple back will use it.

Well, you don't like something? Then don't use it. I don't have as much trouble with Mac owners using it for personal use, but distributing it to everyone, including non-Mac owners, bothers me.


----------



## Valrus (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *valrus, I err purposely spelled those two words wrong .
> *


Yeah, thought you might have. Pretty crafty. 
No, really, I did.



> *It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence. *



Hope you're not accusing _me_ of that.
Cuz, you know, I ain't doing it.

-the valrus


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

just drop it i mean yall got wat yall wanted


----------



## Duckie (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dricci _
> *
> 
> ...no matter how you look at it, it's not flattery, it's copyright infringement. And I don't think it's fair that us Mac users finally get something good and Windows users just steal away because they "don't like Luna." And yes, a lot of Windows users who will never pay Apple back will use it.*



Uh, did you completely ignore my post?  We are NOT regular Windows users.  Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?



> *I don't have as much trouble with Mac owners using it for personal use, but distributing it to everyone, including non-Mac owners, bothers me. *



Why?  Are you gonna get mad when your favorite music group goes mainstream too?  Are you gonna get mad everytime someone uses a phrase you made up?  Anyway, it IS Mac owners using it for personal use.

Duckie


----------



## dricci (Apr 20, 2002)

Well, if you would have read through all the pages, somebody clearly stated they had no interests in Macs and never would but they still used Aqua. I was referring to these types of people, not you. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of them.



> Why? Are you gonna get mad when your favorite music group goes mainstream too? Are you gonna get mad everytime someone uses a phrase you made up?



Is this supposed to have something to do with this? 'Cause it totally flew over my head 



> Anyway, it IS Mac owners using it for personal use.



Nope, not all of them. See first paragraph.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

...Personally, i have the Belief, that All this Aqua Business is earning Apple Money, Thru Converts! ... Back @ tha "Windows" Forum ... i know @ least 5 people who now Run OS X... And the Aqua Skinning, whether it be on their on XP Desktop, or another OS X user's Screen Cap ... is one of the MAJOR Factors! ... i know B'cus it was persuasive in my eyes also! 

Neyo


----------



## Duckie (Apr 20, 2002)

OK, Dricci, with that I will agree. I HAVE seen alot of copies of Mac UI all over the place, but MY point was:  Why is it some Mac owners feel it is their solemn duty/problem to report a web site made by a mac owner to help Mac users?  Sounds hypocritical to me.

I will also admit that some of these same people I am defending haven't exactly shown themselves to be very respectful, however, I will continue to defend their rights.

Finally, I was using an analogy(the music/phrase comment) based on what I have witnessed here.  It _seems_ to me that some of the posters here are insinuating that the Mac UI is only for a small group of people, and that's just palin silly. 

Another analogy:  Just because I use a specific brand of toothpaste doesn't mean I can tell other people they can't.

Duckie


----------



## simX (Apr 20, 2002)

DISCLAIMER:  The following post does not have any references, expressed or implied, to any other MacOSX.com board member.  Nor does it imply anything with regards to Windows users or Mac users.  Furthermore, any references or implications of any opinions should not be construed as such, and therefore it is the fault of the reader if the post makes the reader angry.

By reading this post, you agree to the above statements, and acknowledge that simX does not and will not take any responsibility for any strong emotions that it may cause on the reader.

------------------------------------------

With that said, let me try to say some things with regard to copyright infringement and intellectual property rights.

Obviously from the scope of this thread, it is easy to see that this is not an issue that is black & white.  There is a lot of fuzzy areas, and issues could be argued effectively for either side.

From some of the screenshots that I was able to see, some of the programs like Aqua Mail and Aqua Finder (I will refer to them as such from now on, even if their names are not correct) look almost EXACTLY like Mac OS X's Mail and Finder programs.  If Apple were to actually take legal action, they would have a pretty strong case.  The programs looked almost exactly the same, and from that I infer that they probably would have functioned similarly.

Now I understand that Windows users might be looking toward an easier to use mail program on Windows.  But copying Apple's program is not the answer.  Mail is very easy to use on Mac OS X, but if you copy the interface religiously, it could be seen as stealing the interface.  When designing a Mail program, it would be best not to model it religiously after another program, but to start from the ground up and make the features easy to use without copying the interface elements of Apple's Mail program.  Then if your Mail program has some features that are strikingly similar to Apple's Mail program, you have much more of a case for defending yourself because you did not directly copy it; it just happened that the features are similar.

As an example, if you made a simple Mail program, Apple could not sue you for allowing it to download and read mail just because Apple's Mail program downloads and reads mail as well.  This is, obviously, a ridiculous thing to argue.  A similar thing could be said for other features like bouncing e-mails and having the drawer come out from the side.  But when your program looks religiously like Apple's Mail program, it basically implies that you copied, and copying amounts to stealing.

The themes are an even more complicated issue.  Like one user mentioned, there is the issue of brand recognition.  If you have an Aqua Mail program and Apple's Mail program sitting side by side and they look exactly the same, obviously people would get confused as to which is which, and this could cut out of Apple's sales of Mac OS X because they think that Aqua Mail is what they are getting.  This would be illegal.  However, if Aqua Mail had similar features but not a similar interface, then users would be less likely to be confused, and thus it would be harder for Apple to prove as illegal.

The same thing applies to themes of the OS in general.  If a theme goes out of its way to look exactly like OS X, then some users could get confused, and Apple might lose a sale of a computer because the consumer thought that the themed Windows was actually Mac OS X.  When I see pictures of themed Windows and it looks STRIKINGLY like Mac OS X, I would even go as far to say that it might actually be a screenshot directly from Mac OS X.  This is showing that I could get confused as to whether it is Mac OS X or whether it is Windows.  This constitutes a violation of intellectual property rights, and Apple would have a case on cracking down on themes like that.

Less religious themes would be harder to prove as violations of intellectual property rights.  But the various levels of copying I will leave to true lawyers (I am not one).  I'm just trying to give you a taste of what the actual legal arguments are.

I hope this clears some things up.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by simX _



LOL! ... Thanks for that SimX ... But thats Far too Daunting 2 start Reading! ... I'm Lovin' short Posts!  

I'm sure it had Full Justification! 

NeYo


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

Yes I beleive that Apple should loosen up on some copyright issues, but I have to aggree with simx. He makes a very good point that hasn't been disscussed already. These aren't just themes that add a pinstripe background or aqua buttons. These themes make programs like windows media player look like itunes, outlook look like mail.app, explorer look like omniweb. That is wrong. Also when I first say Neyo's desktop in another thread I thought that it was modified OS X instead of modified windows.

This could make things very confusing.

Sim makes a lot of good points that we should all consider. 

P.S. Nice disclaimer


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> * when I first say Neyo's desktop in another thread I thought that it was modified OS X instead of modified windows.
> *



   hehe!   

But, For any standard Windows User, they simple say ... "OmniWeb" ...WTF?!  LOL! ... there was a poll, where Peeps asked, what they're Favourite Web Browser was, i sed OmniWeb, and they were like, "WHAT"? lol 

Ah Well, That was Plz'in to Hear Googoplex! 

NeYo


----------



## simX (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *
> 
> LOL! ... Thanks for that SimX ... But thats Far too Daunting 2 start Reading! ... I'm Lovin' short Posts!
> ...



*sigh*

I try to say something to help clear things up, and it doesn't get read.

Neyo, I would appreciate it if you at least try to read my posts.  I at least attempt if not read all the way through your posts, and let me tell you that it is so much harder to read something with all your abbreviations and ellipses.  So I think it's only fair that you try and read through my long post, because I'm trying to make some points.

I don't have anything against you or your writing style, Neyo, but I would just appreciate that you read it instead of just glossing over it.  This way we won't go over the same things that I've said later.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

lol, neyo could you record a sound file of how you talk and post it somewhere.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by simX _
> *
> 
> *sigh*
> ...



...hmmm... Sorry Dude! ... I Will Read it Shortly! ... Just Gonna Get Some Grub! Knowing U, u've Prolly considered EVERY Aspect, and Conjured up the perfect Post, thus killing the Debate!  lol! ... Guys, can u sense, beneath (Whats known as) "Ghetto" Talk, is some1 of considerable intelligence!? 

NeYo


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

well not sure if yall know this or not but MACXP.NET isn't where these apps came from but from another site... Aqua-soft.org now do not go doing stuff to that site its the original aqua site. now as for these apps the whole point is to make windows look like a mac now duh aqua finder is SUPPOSED to be 100% like the osx one same with mail. but i dont' get why apple hasn't said anything to us in over a year about this stuff. they must not care but infact the mac users do. i think apple is making money from this stuff rather than losing it. do you know how many windows users have bought macs because of the aqua interface that we have shown windows users? i'm on of them and i can name plenty isn't that right neyo


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Timan _
> *well not sure if yall know this or not but MACXP.NET isn't where these apps came from but from another site... Aqua-soft.org now do not go doing stuff to that site its the original aqua site. now as for these apps the whole point is to make windows look like a mac now duh aqua finder is SUPPOSED to be 100% like the osx one same with mail. but i dont' get why apple hasn't said anything to us in over a year about this stuff. they must not care but infact the mac users do. i think apple is making money from this stuff rather than losing it. do you know how many windows users have bought macs because of the aqua interface that we have shown windows users? i'm on of them and i can name plenty isn't that right neyo  *



For Sure! ... But Only us Windows Peeps Will know that! 

But Yep. i'm with u, FOR SURE!  

..i can't wait for my iMac << sobs >>

NeYo


----------



## simX (Apr 20, 2002)

Timan:  I was using the Aqua Mail and Aqua Finder apps as an example, as well as the total conversion of Windows to OS X using themes.

Your point about Apple not having taken up the issues is moot.  It does not matter if Apple has not taken issue with these programs or your website.  The fact is that Aqua Mail, Aqua Finder, and any themes that are being provided could possibly infringe on Apple's intellectual property and/or copyright rights, and thus Apple has discretion on whether to act or not to act.  If down the road you come up with the perfect Mac OS X theme and Apple allows it for three years on Windows, it still has the right to demand that you take it down because of the things I outlined in my last long post.

I'm not going to go into the issues on why Apple has not had an issue with your site, because frankly, I don't work at Apple, and I don't know how Apple Legal would deal with the issue.  Just know that if you ARE providing themes for Windows that make it look strikingly like Mac OS X, Apple could someday ask you take your work down.


----------



## MDLarson (Apr 20, 2002)

If things went my way:

1.  Themes go back up on MacXP.net
2.  Timan would kindly remove any content if legitimately requested
3.  Disgruntled Mac users would send grammar-correct, cordial emails requesting removal to Timan25@cox.net and copyright@apple.com
4.  If Apple cared, Apple can do something about it.  They are capable of legal action and have used it in the past (eMachines, for example)

You bet those OS X themes are flattery!  If not, why the heck would Windows users install them?

This issue is not worth getting steamed over.


----------



## RacerX (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *But, For any standard Windows User, they simple say ... "OmniWeb" ...WTF?!  LOL! ... there was a poll, where Peeps asked, what they're Favourite Web Browser was, i sed OmniWeb, and they were like, "WHAT"? lol*



Funny, I remember taking part in a poll with Mac users about three years ago where I also said _OmniWeb_, and got almost the same reaction. No one knew what I was talking about. Today, OmniWeb is just another browser for Mac users. I think that Omni is right to ask that their product not be copied considering the number of years they had to go without a user base (1997-2001).


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

intellectual property?>??? thats term doesn't even make any sense. Ownership + ideas?. No matter how many laws you try to pass and all the bullshit descriptions you make up the consept of intellectual property has no real exsistence when it comes to the ownership of thoughts, once out there its no longer yours. You've repeated those terms so many times you no longer question what they mean. 


Timan remember with whom you are talking with, these are mac (wack) users and so they will tell you anything and everything to get you to take down your site. Just modify the icons like the original site did .


Some of these people try a little to hard at portraying them selves as Mac users its disgusting. Conditioned by other dickless users to loose their individuality 
and bark the same commands that were barked at them. If you have not noticed yet Timan there are two sides to the Mac world, on our side The Good Guys  and the other the bad bad egalitarians, non-creative too much money under the mattress penis envy Mac users. And the geeks who after being fuck over by MS for years have come over to our side and think because they've read everything on OS X and know  everything about Apple and how everything works, they think they own the company!. Its not your intellectual property (hahahaha) so don't worry about it the only ones who do don't give a shit so why the fuck do you?.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

Hey, Timan, Dazzla 'n' Co ... Have u seen Y/C's sosumi XP Site? .. it's Looking Good, and thats a Hell of a theme! Respect to him! 

I would post a link, but it may get attacked! LOL! 

NeYo


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

well i'm just sick of the fact my sites shoutbox and my inbox is flooded. i can deal with all this hate about how my site sux yak yak yak. i mean how do you think aol feels about their progs they know it sux but some people use them. like my stuff alot hate but some luv. so i think i'll leave my site up and if you don't like something *THAT YOU MADE! that is on the site i will remove it at request other than that i have nothing further to say.

thanks
tim


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

> intellectual property?>??? thats term doesn't even make any sense. Ownership + ideas?. No matter how many laws you try to pass and all the bullshit descriptions you make up the consept of intellectual property has no real exsistence when it comes to the ownership of thoughts, once out there its no longer yours. You've repeated those terms so many times you no longer question what they mean.
> 
> 
> Timan remember with whom you are talking with, these are mac (wack) users and so they will tell you anything and everything to get you to take down your site. Just modify the icons like the original site did .
> ...



I hate to bring arguement back in here but  ReStarr stop being an idiot and a troll. Could a moderator please deal with this? Some of us, including myself are being perfectly reasonable and you just post something attacking us, whining about how you are the "good guys". Stop being arrogant and get out of your bubble please. I have been very calm and reasonable so far but this is really starting to piss me off. Argueing like this is petty, pathetic and just downright immature.

Oh and timan, I'm sorry your caught up in the middle of all of this. You are being very reasonable and I'm sorry that it all came down to this.

Someone please deal with this.


----------



## MDLarson (Apr 20, 2002)

I reported RedStarr's post to the moderator for obvious reasons.

Logic, patience, and peace have been thrown out the window on this thread again.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 20, 2002)

> Its not your intellectual property (hahahaha) so don't worry about it the only ones who do don't give a shit so why the fuck do you?.



Such language!

I think people like myself, SimX, and googolplex have made valid, INTELLIGENT arguments for our side. A few others are resorting to calling us "mac whacks", and getting personal with their insults. 

I guess it really is time to shut this thread down, but I'm just having so much fun messing with the Aqua Thieves that I can't help myself!


----------



## simX (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RedStarr _
> *intellectual property?>??? thats term doesn't even make any sense. Ownership + ideas?. No matter how many laws you try to pass and all the bullshit descriptions you make up the consept of intellectual property has no real exsistence when it comes to the ownership of thoughts, once out there its no longer yours. You've repeated those terms so many times you no longer question what they mean.*



I'll only respond to your first paragraph because the others were obviously out of line and don't deserve a response.

The only reason I use intellectual property without questioning what they mean is because legally, intellectual property exists, and it will be used to argue a case in court.  Therefore it doesn't matter what you think of it, only what lawyers and courts think of it.  I'm trying to be practical and sticking to the topic at hand  I think we can save the debate over semantics for another thread.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

googolplex fight your own battels don't go crying to mod to help....freak this you pissed me off now....and wha! you gona do puto.

 do I know you?? I haven't said a word to you did I mention any names here, no!.  I have the right to comment, speak my mind and not be shut down just because you don't agree with my views. 
Troll?? I own two count them two so how the hell can I be a troll.

I guess you must have fallen into one of the categories that I mentioned and took offense
rich boy, dickless or is it geek which everyone it was I'm sorry. Ok I had to do that you made me so dont bitch....k
.
 And  simX rhetorical question


----------



## dricci (Apr 20, 2002)

There are language rules here, please follow them. And please try to speak English, I don't want to have to find my Captain-1337-PublicSk00-Crunch Decoder Ring to read a post.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dricci _
> * I don't want to have to find my Captain-1337-PublicSk00-Crunch Decoder Ring to read a post. *



LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

NeYo

Edit: Oh! i jut Realised, For the Majority who won't know the meaning of that "expression" ... it stands for Laughing My F**king Ass Off!


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

I think your talking to me. 

I'm not taking any offense here. It seems that you are the one taking offense. The rest of us are just posting sanely and you keep trying to pick a fight or you keep insulting people.

You didn't mention names, but you did collectively refer to us as "bad guys" or calling us rich boys, etc. You can express your views. But your not expressing your views in the right way. Instead of telling us what you think in a sane way you yell at us, insult us and continue to try and be sarcastic and smart with us.

Just stop, you are not helping anything.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

There are language rules here, please follow them. And please try to speak English, I don't want to have to find my Captain-1337-PublicSk00-Crunch Decoder Ring to read a post.

O..he he

Just walk the other way skippy. Man you people sucks, it gets a little heated and you start with the rules rules rule we have rules here. This is America buddy we have rules here......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

Neyo, thanks for informing me. In my sheltered Internet life I've never come accross that... I always wondered what it meant.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

> Just walk the other way skippy. Man you people sucks, it gets a little heated and you start with the rules rules rule we have rules here. This is America buddy we have rules here......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.



Just so you know. Recently admin has been kicking people off because of language. When you made your account on here you aggreed to obey the language rules. Stop with the stupid patriotic crap too. It figures. Are all trolls mindless patriots?


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

Misunderstanding so lets just leave it at that. I don't have the energy to explain but just know that I see a trend happing(not just here but every where) and I don't like it. Things change but slow it down cause I can't go this fast.


----------



## Valrus (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *I think your talking to me.*



I think you did the "your" thing on purpose too, just to bait me. 

RedStarr: Fix your grammar. Fix your language. Get out. We'd like to keep this civil but you're making it a *bit* difficult.

-the valrus


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *Neyo, thanks for informing me. In my sheltered Internet life I've never come accross that... I always wondered what it meant.  *



No Way! << sigh >> ...

i think We Need a Thread here, which Has all this kinda C**p in it, so in Future ... We're all Clued up... "Ghetto Kid, Captain-1337-PublicSk00" Style! LOL! <-- Laugh Out Loud! 

NeYo


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

Since the software didn't censor me I didn't think they cared Cool!!! I thought to my self.
I'll be more careful from now on.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

I got you didn't I valrus 

Neyo, I can't tell if all your numbers and smilies are sarcastic, so I'll just say that I was being sarcastic.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RedStarr _
> *slow it down cause I can't go this fast. *



.... I bet u say that 2 all the Ladies!   hehe!

NeYo


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *I got you didn't I valrus
> 
> Neyo, I can't tell if all your numbers and smilies are sarcastic, so I'll just say that I was being sarcastic. *



 Cool ... << shrugs >> i don't know neither! ... i'm Just Going With Dricci's Flow!  

NeYo


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

Just so you know. Recently admin has been kicking people off because of language. When you made your account on here you aggreed to obey the language rules. Stop with the stupid patriotic crap too. It figures. Are all trolls mindless patriots?


My name is RedStarr....what could that mean?.
I was JOKING!!!! read more carefully....

Stop calling me a troll I own two Macs


----------



## dricci (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RedStarr _
> *Just walk the other way skippy. Man you people sucks, it gets a little heated and you start with the rules rules rule we have rules here. This is America buddy we have rules here......HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. *



This is America, and this is a private server (aka "Private Property"). This private property has profanaty rules. You need to follow them, not just because of the rules, but because you're making yourself look like you have discussion skills of an eight year old. We want to see intelligent conversation, not your personal opinion expressed in profanity.

You can try to justify your actions however you want. You can believe that it's helpful, You can believe that only people who are paying Apple users will use the themes, You can believe that people can't own ideas, or heck, you can believe in Santa for all I care. But it boils down to one thing: What the themes are doing is an Illegal Copyright Violation.

You can cuss me out in 1337 speak all you want, I don't care what you think of me, or if you think "kicking [our] asses" would solve this problem, but the fact is what these aqua apps and themes are doing is a copyright violation. And as paying Mac users, we have a right to speak out against people getting things that we pay for and fund more R&D for, for free. It's wrong, it's illegal, and you bet a lot of us want it stoped. I'm not going to repeat the reasons, I believe SimX did a great job of pointing everything out. I suggest reading it if you skipped over it.


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

we do not steal the AQUA theme stealing has to do with money! credit and other stuff. we are using it for personal use ok if thats not good enough how about educational purposes. we all know yall are using the luna theme on yalls mac


----------



## Duckie (Apr 20, 2002)

NeYo, Ever tried just typing WITHOUT all the "........" and "****"?

It's much more readable than say...this:

"Four ....  Scoooore, @nd 7 yrs @go ......  lol.... , Our ...."

Translates to:

"Four score and 7 years ago, Our..."

See?

Duckie

P.S. As an american, I would like to make it clear to all that I do not throw MY laws around the net with a blind eye to the fact that it is a world wide forum, nor do I condone it.  RedStarr, you should try thinking b4 typing. The net isn't American soil.


----------



## dricci (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Timan _
> *we do not steal the AQUA theme stealing has to do with money! credit and other stuff. we are using it for personal use ok if thats not good enough how about educational purposes. we all know yall are using the luna theme on yalls mac  *



Uh, stealing does *not* have to involve money. I learned that before pre-school. Stealing is taking something that's not yours. I can download an entire MP3 cd for "personal use" or the latest photoshop for "personal use" but it's still *stealing*

Aqua is Apple's, and by using it in a way they have not given permission for, you are stealing it. Ask any lawyer, or any "grown up."

And you wouldn't catch me dead using a Luna theme


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

this thread viewed 1547...wooo hooo.

Yes honey, your right, I totaly agree with you.
Can we make love now or are you going to yell at me some more. I don't think anyone understood my post, dame those english tape lessons I want my money back. 

How sad is it that I'm home on a sat and we are fighting about nothing.......man I need a women.


----------



## MDLarson (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RedStarr _
> *Since the software didn't censor me I didn't think they cared Cool!!! I thought to my self.
> I'll be more careful from now on. *


Just because Admin might appear not to care (which they do) doesn't mean that whoever reads your words won't care either.  Please do be more careful in the future.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Duckie _
> *NeYo, Ever tried just typing WITHOUT all the "........" and "****"?
> 
> It's much more readable than say...this:
> ...



Despite What The Regulars, on the Board here Say, they Love tha Vibe i Bring, and the Way i Present it! ... They Just Hate To Admit it! ... And "Duckie" (Cute Name BTW  ) ... Yes, i can Present myself Formally! ... But this is the way i tend to type on Msg boards, IM's etc! its just me! ... OK, if i get the Chance 2 type a longish Reply ... i will Prove that i am not all 1337 (Heck i Dunno WTF "1337" is, so i ain't that Bad!  )

NeYo


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

Timan this is all your fault. I thought it was mess up how people were treating you so I opened my mouth.....**** . O well these aren't the only forums on the net.


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

yea all my fault its whos ever fault for starting this thread.... but no names  and i didn't just saying stealing was money i just had a !!!! thing at the end of sorry about the grammer *windows users   but credit also. i'll bring it up again if apple wanted this to be removed they would have said something to aquasoft and macxp not for its users to flame the owner of the site. how about yall forget about this whole thing and stop emailing me ACK i thought it would stop after this thread started but damn i'm getting more and more crappy email.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

I got some news for you macaddict.com also has a thread on your site....hahaha

"Its whos ever fault for starting this thread"


 serpicolugnut<---thats him he didn't. Glad I could help.


----------



## Timan (Apr 20, 2002)

yea hey i don't care no more my hits have gone up double thank you!


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

I know this is why you did it in the first place..sneeky little devil you, again glad I could help..........since your hits have increased
I'm taking creadit


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

Check out the thread at macaddict.com 
Maybe you can get more hits

Oh I see that you went there already     
Ti played us all like suckers all he wanted was the hits


----------



## Valrus (Apr 20, 2002)

NeYo - here's what l337 looks like... in its most horrible form.



> HEY NEYO,, uR lame ... ,,, i put thi spost thorugh teh dialectizer, jjust soo u would nkow what '733t" iz OLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!111 lololololololol ~~~~~~~ az freaky az ur gramm4r is, it"z not ahlf as bad as this!!!!!!!!!!!!111~~~~~~~ EDSPTE YOUR CFRAZY SYNTSAX0R,, YOuRE GOOD AT KEEPING A SENSE O HUM0RAMIDsT ALL TEH FLAMEZ kEep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~
> 
> -TEH VALRUS



Here's my post before I put it through the Dialectizer.

Hey NeYo... I put this post through the Dialectizer, just so you would know what "elite" is... As freaky as your grammar is, it's not half as bad as this! Despite your crazy syntax, you're good at keeping a sense of humor amidst all the flames. Keep it up.

-the valrus

Here's a tip: NEVER put one of _your_ posts through that thing!!


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Valrus _
> *NeYo - here's what l337 looks like... in its most horrible form.
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Man, Thanks For that ... Looks interesting! .. whilst u Peeps Argu, Cry, 'n' Fight I'm gonna Go play with my ....Captain-1337-PublicSk00-Crunch Decoder

hehe! 

Peace!

NeYo


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 20, 2002)

Wow! I can't believe this is still going on.

Just for the record, I will admit that I was one of the folks who acted in an inappropriate manner (read troll-ish).

Timan, I apologize for any inflammatory rhetoric I have launched in your direction. However, I will not apologize for the belief that you are not only breaking the law, you have also stolen from the designers and engineer who work on the Aqua interface and the company (Apple) who pays for the use of their time and talent.

To everyone, I am enjoying reading the debate, especially from those of you who can argue from a position of intelligence. To those of you yet to display said intelligence, there is still hope.

I think it is great that a debate can get this heated, and (some) individuals can still keep their civility.

Now, let the flames continue. . .


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

You want the flames to continue ebolag? .... Thats what I want to stop.

Valrus, I like that dialectizer .


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 20, 2002)

Sarcasm, plex, sarcasm. . .


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

How old are you  googolplex, is old fart correct.  THey should have a simble for flames.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 20, 2002)

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Lets go for the record!

I don't really have much more to contribute except -

*YES - I STARTED THIS THREAD!* 

Now where can I go to learn to speak/type like NeYo, Timan and RedStarr...?????


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

Redstarr I'm probalby younger then you. I'm 15.

ebolag. I'm tiered don't bother me


----------



## ebolag4 (Apr 20, 2002)

Then go to bed young man. That's sage advise (lol) from an "old fart."


----------



## RacerX (Apr 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *Now where can I go to learn to speak/type like NeYo, Timan and RedStarr...????? *



You could try _here_.


----------



## googolplex (Apr 20, 2002)

Ebolag, thats what I'm about to do right now. It is a saturday night errr.... morning


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 20, 2002)

I made this thread man with out me, your nothing. 


Someones finally starting to understand this hole post...............flame on



hole whole hole tool tool tool tool. :confuse:

 And this troll s**t better stop I'm a die hard headbanger. If you can understand why I advocate the exploitation of Apples intellectual property(hahahaha) then you need to check out other forums and see what I'm talking about, makes one feel nothing but shame.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 21, 2002)

In all seriousness I love Apple and will always buy Apple. But if you people keep acting like a******s then I would be forced to but MS. 

This forum needs a software that filters bad words, I'm tired os censoring my self.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 21, 2002)

It's called a period. It comes at the end of a sentence. 

Live it. Learn it. Love it.

Oh, and you are mistaken. I started this thread, but you have definitely been the comedy aspect of it.

Peace.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 21, 2002)

Don't get emotional just because you started this thread but couldn't do anything with it.


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 21, 2002)

If you streach a period out it would look like this 
_________ 

make it vertical and now you have a place to sit.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Apr 21, 2002)

You've proven to us that...

1) You don't understand what intellectual property is (and don't respect it)...

and 

2) You get most of your come backs and insults from reading the bathroom stalls at school.

Bravo!


----------



## RedStarr (Apr 21, 2002)

People on my site think I'm cool

ntellectual property


----------



## Timan (Apr 21, 2002)

mac xp is gone i think i'll turn it into a forum like this but mainly for desktops and *talk about making ur windows look like osx* no files will be hosted but something simple for everyone i hope this makes all the mac users out there happier.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *
> 
> You could try here.
> ...



"Laughing my Ass Off" Oh Golly, That was ever so funny. Timothy, "Ol' " Chap, I Don't Think its right, that you should take down your files. Why not come to mine, and have a Good Old English Cup of Tea?
Isn't it Really interesting, when us English guys Get Out our Cups of Tea, and Prawn Sandwidges. Its Ever so Posh! I'm Talking like the Queen! ... "oooooh Hello Darlings, how very nice to see you" 

LOL! ... WTF? ... 

Nah, its not happening, it takes me longer to type, then i have re-read the Damn thing, and its So BORING! Damn! << Yawn >>

NeYo

...And i Sound Like "Herve" ...    (hehe ... where is he? )


----------



## RacerX (Apr 21, 2002)

Our visitors from the other side may not understand why Mac users defend Apple to the degree that we do (even if they claim to be Mac users themselves). 

In the earlier 90's I didn't think about what computer company was doing what, I wanted both the GUI of the Mac and the ability to run a mathematics program that was only written for the Mac. After that I went on my happy computing ways and really didn't think about it much.

In the mid 90's I started seeing computer companies fold and other operating systems disappear. At this same time I started to hear people say that Apple was going to be the next computer company to fall. That was when it donned on me, computers are a business and anything that hurts Apple's business hurts my choice of computing platform.

With that realization, I support Apple's rights to the innovations that keep them strong. Wanting to see a wide range of operating systems again, I support anything that can stop Microsoft from forcing people to use their products (like OEM licensing and proprietary formats). I would be very happy to see Windows with 50% market share and 20 other operating systems making up the other 50%.

But we need to be clear here, the theme/skins that we are talking about are designed to make it nicer to work on Windows rather than just moving to a Mac (and owning a 7200 doesn't make you a Mac user anymore than me owning 3 PCs makes me a Windows user). The people doing this are still buying new PCs and not new Macs (which was the purpose for creating the Aqua interface to begin with), so it is hurting Apple, and therefore it is hurting my platform of choice. 

Any one spending as much time and energy trying to change the look of Windows as many of you guys are, could easily spend that same time and energy helping some alternative non-Microsoft platform get by in a Microsoft world.

If you don't like your platform of choice, choose something else. Otherwise, live with what you got (or improve it in some way), but don't hurt other platforms that you are not willing to use yourselves.


----------



## Duckie (Apr 21, 2002)

Well, THAT hurt.  How is a 7200 not a Mac?  My specs.  It's what I use for my webpage design, Photoshop, web browsing, Avid, Final Cut, Office documents, and more.

Secondly, I use a multi-boot system on my peecee.  I run Linux(Red Hat and Mandrake), BeOS and Windoze, so as you can see, I DO support the alternative OS's.

What is getting lost in this discussion are the actual Mac owners.  I agree, there are alot of people just imitating Mac OS for a pretty GUI. However, there are still a select few ( yes, even those of us with 7200 machines  ) who feel more at home with these additions.  If they made them for Linux, I'd use them too.  

Just because you may own a top-o-the-line, Ive's designed, G4 doesnt make you any more a Mac user than me or anyone else.

Duckie

P.S.  The following 'sig' is a joke, so don't take it so seriously.  It's a stab at the lamers who feel it neccesary to post their phallic like specs.  Apparently that is where people are getting the idea that I am a peecee user, exclusively.


----------



## dricci (Apr 21, 2002)

Have you purchased a licence for Mac OS X? I'm pretty sure the 7200 didn't ship with it


----------



## MDLarson (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Duckie _
> *P.S.  The following 'sig' is a joke, so don't take it so seriously.  It's a stab at the lamers who feel it neccesary to post their phallic like specs.  Apparently that is where people are getting the idea that I am a peecee user, exclusively. *


Excuse me?  I *will* take your *above comment* seriously.

I have my specs in my signature mainly to aid in any support issues.  Like if I post a problem, I don't have to constantly post what I have.  And if I post in a thread where it doesn't really matter, I try to remember to click off the "Show Signature" option.

Please peruse my super-macho egotistical signature below


----------



## RacerX (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Duckie's issue ducking_
> *Well, THAT hurt. How is a 7200 not a Mac?...
> 
> Just because you may own a top-o-the-line, Ive's designed, G4 doesnt make you any more a Mac user than me or anyone else.*



Here's the question (and like I said, I own three PCs myself), which system, your Mac or your PC do you use more? Which have you put more money in? Which would you not be willing to part with? A Mac user finds that using a Mac is more important than any other system. When you bought your current PC, why didn't you just buy a Mac? The number of operating systems I have (and know how to use) is most likely an order of magnitude greater than your collection. And yet I am first and foremost a Mac user.

And the 7220 is not a 7200 (the 7200 series was based on the PPC 601 processor), the 7200 case is base on the 7500 case design where as the 7220 is based on the 4400 case design (do you work with Macs much?  ).


----------



## ksuther (Apr 21, 2002)

Completely off topic, but I wonder why Apple went DOWN with their numbers on their 7x00 line. They first had the 7500, which was a 100/120 or something like that. Then they had the 7600, which was a bit faster. Then they went DOWN 400 to the 7200. *confused*

Oh well, I remember when I was like eight I really wanted a 7500 cause I saw the cover of Macworld with it on it, and it looked cool 

Back to the topic, maybe...maybe we shouldn't go back to the topic, we might hurt somebody...


----------



## Duckie (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *
> 
> Here's the question (and like I said, I own three PCs myself), which system, your Mac or your PC do you use more? *



The PowerMac.  After learning more about Mac OS and the software available from one freind who went to Full Sail Recording School, and another who attended a film academy, I switched back to Mac from peecee because it offered rendering, editing, and capturing video in real time without so much drag on the OS.  Yes, I did use peecee's for those tasks in the past, but that was 3 years ago.  I know better now.



> *Which have you put more money in? Which would you not be willing to part with? *



Answer to both, the Macs.



> *When you bought your current PC, why didn't you just buy a Mac? *



First of all, the PC isn't my personal machine.  Second, the software I needed, and the employee's knowledge of Windows, required me to buy a PC.

I will admit that I may not be as hardware proficient as many Mac users, but I do have a working knowledge of the OS.  I have grown BACK in love with Macs because they offer me more for my profession.  I started my career in computers on a Mac(Hence, the still working, and still usable Mac Plus) and will continue to use them. 

Finally, my sig is not intended to rip on those who offer support. 

Duckie


----------

