# Powerbook 12" running Debian Linux



## Viro (Mar 15, 2005)

My Powerbook has been running Mac OS X with Debian for a while now, and two weeks ago, I got rid of OS X and am now running Debian only with GNOME as my GUI.

The reasons I run Linux on my Powerbook instead of OS X:

Most of the applications I use are running in X11. Since I spent more time in Fink than I did in OS X, I figured I should just run Linux. X11 is still quite poorly integrated into OS X.   
Virtual Desktops are tightly integrated into GNOME. I've begun to need this more than I need expose. Strange, but that's how it goes.   
My work machine runs Debian as well. It makes things like synchronizing data much easier.   
I get Spotlight before any mac user does . Install Beagle and you've got something similar to Spotlight.   
It's free. Loads of utilities are free, and aren't available on OS X, or are a pain to set up under OS X.   
Mono works under Linux far better than it does under OS X. You can actually get a working GUI(!!).   
X11 renders fonts better than OS X. Seriously, OS X fonts look blurry after you run GNOME which has crisp anti-aliased fonts. It defies all explanation as to why Apple has worse looking fonts than GNOME. Just browse the web for screenshots. 
 What I miss about running OS X:

Sleep functionality. My Powerbook doesn't sleep now. I need to shut it down and start it up whenever I travel. It's a pain initially, but you get used to it after a while. The 1m 34s boot time isn't that bad and allow you time to go brew some tea.   
3D acceleration. No more 3D games for me . nVidia is evil*.   
Wireless. I've got to buy a DWL-122 wireless dongle since Airport Extreme isn't supported. Broadcom is evil*.   
Laptop runs slightly hotter under Linux. Good in winter, bad in summer.   
VGA-out works when you disable the LCD. Bit of a pain when doing presentations but hey, nVidia needs to release the specifications to their hardware before anything can happen.   
Lack of multimedia plugins. Flash doesn't work (this can be a good thing).  No proprietary video codecs like WMV/Quicktime/Real. DVD playback works good though. 
 All in all, Debian looks like it will stay for quite a while on my Powerbook. Tiger might make me switch back, but from the looks of things, it may not.

*these companies aren't evil per se. I just thought I'd be a stereotypical Linux user and call them evil .


----------



## rubicon (Mar 30, 2005)

If I was going to run Linux on my Mac, I'd just get a PC laptop and call it a day.  If you're going to deal with hardware driver issues, it may as be on the Intel platform.


----------



## Viro (Mar 31, 2005)

Why?

PC laptops are huge, and no where near as well built as Mac laptops.


----------



## drunkmac (Mar 31, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> Why?
> 
> PC laptops are huge, and no where near as well built as Mac laptops.



Think again Viro. Go look at Sony's line of Vaios or some Fujitsus out there. Very thin. Thinner than the powerbook..but I must agree, getting a Powerbook and throwing linux on there is just a waste.


----------



## Viro (Apr 1, 2005)

How much more do they cost than the Powerbook? They don't have proper vector processing either. No, SSE2/3 doesn't count.

The Powerbook is very good, for people who want a *nix laptop that has integrated X11. Perhaps if Tiger integrated X11 better into the OS, this would make running Linux a moot point.

That said, running Linux on Mac hardware isn't for everyone, of course.


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 1, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> .....That said, running Linux on Mac hardware isn't for everyone, of course.



It makes for an interesting hobby....or waste of time, depending on your perspective... ::ha::


----------



## Viro (Apr 1, 2005)

Ahem... I'd go with interesting hobby .


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 1, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> Ahem... I'd go with interesting hobby .



You're preaching to the choir.  Have you seen my avatar??  ::ha::


----------



## verlorenengel (Apr 1, 2005)

This is the funniest thread ever! Good joke Viro


----------



## nixgeek (Apr 2, 2005)

Ya got me ...


----------



## Viro (Apr 2, 2005)

verlorenengel said:
			
		

> This is the funniest thread ever! Good joke Viro



Eh? This was posted 2 weeks before April fool's day.


----------



## adambyte (Apr 2, 2005)

> Virtual Desktops are tightly integrated into GNOME. I've begun to need this more than I need expose. Strange, but that's how it goes.



... Did you try "Desktop Manager?" It's free, and it works even BETTER than the linux alternatives, if you ask me.



> I get Spotlight before any mac user does . Install Beagle and you've got something similar to Spotlight.



QuickSilver does most of what Spotlight does, and it's free. Then again, I haven't tried Beagle.



> It's free. Loads of utilities are free, and aren't available on OS X, or are a pain to set up under OS X.



There's plenty of free stuff for Mac, too. There's free stuff everywhere.



> Mono works under Linux far better than it does under OS X. You can actually get a working GUI(!!).



My doctors checked me for mono. I don't have it. lol

I have no idea what mono is, but I just wanted to make that joke.



> Lack of multimedia plugins. Flash doesn't work (this can be a good thing). No proprietary video codecs like WMV/Quicktime/Real. DVD playback works good though.



lol. Thanks for making it painfully obvious that *nix is not for people who deal with media, like me.


----------



## HateEternal (Apr 3, 2005)

Heh.

Running Linux on an Apple laptop makes sense. I agree with Viro, there arent any PC laptops that are as good as the Macs in the same price range or have similar features. I got my iBook because you couldn't get a cheap PC laptop that was small, light and has long battery life.

On the other hand, if Viro had said he was running Linux only on his PM G5 I would have disagreed with that decision. PowerMac G5s are fast and everything, but from what I have seen recently they don't really out perform high end PCs. So it would make a lot more sense to build a high end PC for Linux use. I got a G5 because I like OS X and thought it would be worth the extra cash (I could have built a reasonably high end PC for ~1000 bucks) I feel it was completely worth the extra 1000 to be able to use OS X and have 2 processors helping me multitask, OS X does this very well.


----------



## Viro (Apr 3, 2005)

The only reason to run Linux on a PM G5 is because it makes a nice hobby, or because you're developing kernel device drivers like Linus .

I wouldn't buy a PM for Linux. I'd get a dual (perhaps Quad) Opteron for that kind of money. Plus the PC would be better supported.


----------



## Viro (Apr 18, 2005)

Panther has been restored, and come the 29th of April, Tiger will be put on. I've found that there are some things on OS X that I need but aren't available on Linux.
Vga-out: I need this since I'm doing a presentation at a conference next week. Having to disable my LCD just to have the projector working is similar to gouging out one of my eyes.
Powerpoint is far superior to OpenOffice. Nuff Said.
Matlab is only available on OS X and Linux (x86). Matlab isn't available on PPC Linux, and the only way I've been able to use it so far has been to ssh into a x86 box that has Matlab and use X11 forwarding. Works, but is a tad slow, especially when I'm doing intensive stuff.
Tiger looks cool , especially with the inclusion of GCC 4. Really looking forward to recompiling my apps with GCC 4, and getting the increased speed.

Linux on my Powerbook has been a fun experience and wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. However, until there is better support for the PPC architecture (looks like never...), on my x86 desktop it will remain.


----------



## Breber (Apr 21, 2005)

They are quite a few reasons I can think of why people are using Linux on a mac:

1. Give the old slow Mac a slight boost with Linux.
2. To be different.
3. Work or study requirements.
4. There is nothing to lose to learn one more thing.
5. Open source/freeware only available to Linux.

I have been using PPC Linux on my old slow 500Mhz iBook, not a bad experience. But with a new PowerBook now, I don't see the need anymore.


Breber


----------



## Viro (May 5, 2005)

It's on Tiger now since Friday. Loving it.


----------



## Lycander (May 5, 2005)

Late to the game, but here's my 2 cents:

I found my iBook to run Linux a lot better. Sleep and special function keys worked perfectly after some tweaking. I got pretty decent 3D performance out of the Radeon 9200 by using DRM drivers. And for kicks I was running KDE with KSmoothDock, once I put my KDE taskbar in autohide, it looked very OSX-ish, coupled with the proper widget theme of course.

For the hassle though, whatever software that was X11 centric I would have either ported or found an alternative so that I could just live with OSX alone. I have some bones to pick with just about everything out there in computer land. I ended up finding OSX to be the lesser evil.


----------



## xarcom (May 6, 2005)

I have an ibook G3 500Mhz and I used to run Debian on it.. I'm probably as *nix type guy as you can get.. I work extensively with various unix platforms.. 

When I bought my ibook I wanted a PPC machine to run Linux on it... besides, OSX was but a wee baby back then... without all the stuff its got today... (I remember getting 10.0 OSX with the ibook). It was a great experience, but every once in a while I booted in OSX, just to take a look around... My big complaint at that time was no X11 and bad performance... but only slightly worse performance than I was getting on linux.. I mean a G3 500... isn't that much power to begin with.. 

When Panther came out.. I bought it and wiped Linux off my lappy... haven't looked back.. I run everything I ran on Linux in OSX and the performance is incredible considering my low power CPU.. 

Having gone through this experience.. I would never buy a mac to install linux... the support just isn't the same as x86 and why pay more money for less functionality (Mac hardware is much less supported mostly since Apple doesn't release much specs about their hardware.... so devs have to poke the hardware for a while before the drivers can be written... I remember waiting 6 months for dmasound to work on my ibook in linux... its a long wait when you pay 3K$ for a laptop) 

Thats my experience.. Linux is great... but OSX is better on the Mac thats what I found anyways.


----------



## nixgeek (May 6, 2005)

I would say for new Macs that can handle it, stick with OS X.

For older Macs that aren't supported under OS X, Linux is a great option.  Hopefully with Linux working on PPC Linux with his Mac machines, things will change for the better in the PPC Linux realm.

It would also be nice to see more non-Apple PowerPC based systems here in the states, but seeing that Microsoft and x86 companies are dominant here, it may be slim to nil.


----------



## fryke (May 6, 2005)

"Hopefully with Linux working on PPC Linux with his Mac machines" - Learn using the comma, nixgeek, the comma is your friend.


----------



## nixgeek (May 6, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> "Hopefully with Linux working on PPC Linux with his Mac machines" - Learn using the comma, nixgeek, the comma is your friend.



Sorry, I meant to say "Hopefully with LINUS working on PPC Linux with his Mac machines,.."

And I did use a comma after that, thankyouverymuch..  

7h@nk 90d 1 d1dn'7 7yp3 17 llk3 7h15.


----------



## Lycander (May 6, 2005)

Why wait around for Linus? I'm more interested in what Ben Herrenschmidt has been doing, and will be doing, for PPC Linux. If you're a notebook PPC Linux user you have a lot to thank him for.


----------



## texanpenguin (May 8, 2005)

The interesting thing is, Macs have an inordinately small number of components required to be supported in comparison to the x86 world, since Apple makes all the hardware (or compiles it, might be a better word).

A layman would have thought that device support in Linux PPC would have been far greater than its x86 cousin.

Software on the other hand .


----------



## Viro (May 8, 2005)

The problem is that drivers for todays devices aren't that simple anymore. Take the nVidia video cards for instance. There is no way on earth anyone will be able to reverse engineer it without the specifications. That's what's currently happening on Linux. On x86 nvidia releases some closed source drivers that aren't available on PPC. This means that people using PPC Linux are stuck using some generic 2D driver that doesn't have video acceleration. After using Quartz Extreme 2D, it's frankly quite difficult to go back to that .

The same situation exists with Airport Extreme. Broadcom has been dragging their feet in releasing specifications.


----------



## nixgeek (May 8, 2005)

Lycander said:
			
		

> Why wait around for Linus? I'm more interested in what Ben Herrenschmidt has been doing, and will be doing, for PPC Linux. If you're a notebook PPC Linux user you have a lot to thank him for.




This is true...  I haven't ever tried any of his kernels, just thee ones provided from Debian for my StarMax.  I wonder if I would get better support for my hardware with one of his kernel compilations.

What differences would there be compared to the one Debian/ppc provides?


----------



## Lycander (May 9, 2005)

texanpenguin said:
			
		

> A layman would have thought that device support in Linux PPC would have been far greater than its x86 cousin.


#1. There are more x86 linux coders than there are PPC coders, so it's a default by numbers.

#2. It's great that Apple mandates the hardware for each system. But whenever Apple releases new hardware that has big enough changes (chipsets and things you don't see/hear of everyday) it usually breaks capatibility with Linux kernels. I remeber when each time new PowerBooks came out, the kernel hackers had to go back to the drawing board and fix things like function keys, sleep, power management etc.

Oh, and now that the old 802.11b Airport is non-existent in new Macs, not even as an option, we have no wireless support in PPC/Linux. But I *think* I saw somewhere, someone got it to work. *shrugg*



			
				nixgeek said:
			
		

> What differences would there be compared to the one Debian/ppc provides?


It wasn't just the kernel, but various other utilities that made PPC/Linux more enjoyable for me on my iBook. I use Gentoo and I've always chose to go with a Benh kernel. For specific details, you'd have to see the respective websites. But all I've been hearing is people raving about the Benh kernels, especially notebook Mac users, that includes me.


----------

