# Why the new imac will fail



## kilowatt (Jan 7, 2002)

1) every reason the sweet-looking g4 cube failed, except its ugly, too.

2) I'm sure its got a slow bus, most of apple's imacs do

3) there isn't a model under $1,000. That is just going to kill apple. I mean, you can't run osx on new hard ware without spending a grand. PC users can slap together a dual athalon with a geforce 2 for way under a grand. Although pc's suck so I guess that works out

4) its ugly. Incredibly ugly.

5) for $1799 you get a computer with a 15" display that does 1024x768. Yes, it has the geforce inside, but thats just a waste of money.... almost two thousand dollars, and you only have a 15" display. Come on apple!!! make a 19" for $1499. and make the 15" $999, if possable.

6) no new computer users will be attracted to it. Its almost frightening for old people to look at, I'm sure.

7) its not at all practical. Its round, so you can't set anything on top of it. You can't put a zip drive in it, or expand its storage without 50 different metric alan wrenches and a CS degree.

Lets hope apple doesn't have to put the new imac out with the cube...


----------



## themacko (Jan 7, 2002)

> 1) every reason the sweet-looking g4 cube failed, except its ugly, too.


Just a matter of opinion.  Lots of people like it, including me.



> 2) I'm sure its got a slow bus, most of apple's imacs do


It's a consumer product, if you want a faster bus go with a Power Mac.  I have absolutely no complaints and I'm on an iBook 500.  I doubt the average Apple user even knows what the Bus speed is.



> 3) there isn't a model under $1,000. That is just going to kill apple. I mean, you can't run osx on new hard ware without spending a grand. PC users can slap together a dual athalon with a geforce 2 for way under a grand. Although pc's suck so I guess that works out


I have to agree with you on this, but you are getting a TON for your money.  The 15" display equals a 17" CRT (what 95% of the population uses).  You're getting a huge harddrive and fast processor.  Unfortunately, they should've kept the old iMac line for sale for a sub$1000 price.



> 4) its ugly. Incredibly ugly.


Same as #1



> 5) for $1799 you get a computer with a 15" display that does 1024x768. Yes, it has the geforce inside, but thats just a waste of money.... almost two thousand dollars, and you only have a 15" display. Come on apple!!! make a 19" for $1499. and make the 15" $999, if possable.


Same as #3



> 6) no new computer users will be attracted to it. Its almost frightening for old people to look at, I'm sure.


I don't quite understand that logic .. personally I would be more afraid of a heaping monitor and big loud-ass grey box with 20 wires poking out of it than this.  The iMac is 'cute' like a bunny, not ugly and loud like a garbage truck.  But again, a matter of opinion.



> 7) its not at all practical. Its round, so you can't set anything on top of it. You can't put a zip drive in it, or expand its storage without 50 different metric alan wrenches and a CS degree.


  Umm, tell me again what FireWire and USB ports are used for?

Kilo:  I didn't mean to be rude, bro.  I just wanted to throw out my opinions as well.


----------



## rinse (Jan 7, 2002)

kilowat, im going to battle your points...

1. do you mean it's expensive? or jarring looking? thins point seems to fall into other arguments you are already making below.

2. quite possibly yes... it loks as though as it a 100mhz bus -kinda slow, but not untolerable. this is an easy upgrade for future revisions

3. they still sell the crt mac... just look for the link on the apple store. starts at $799. also, im sure price will drop and bundles will appear, just like always... remember, then bondi iMac of 98 was $1299 (wasn't it orignally $1599?)

4. that is subjective. beauty and the eye of the beholder, you know. to me, it sure looks better than a cow colored gatway or a compaq with snap on color parts.

5. perhaps a new size will come out with the next revision, as the LCD is not nearly integrated into the design as the CRT was, i don't see why they wouldn't be able to upgrade the display as it becomes cost effective and necssary to do so.

6.what is this argument? balderdash, i say. (ha! i said balderdash!) how can you predict what people will be attracted to? are you a marketting specialist? an industrial designer in the computing biz?

7. practical? you know what is not practical? having a nearly unreachable tower under your desk so you have to bend down to insert an antiquated storage medium like a zip or floppy into a monstrous ATX case. expand it's storage? for crying out loud it has 60gb internal! if you need much more than that get a external firewire disk or a tower for 1600 and put some more ATA drives in it.


in conclusion....

i mean, c'mon.... apple puts out a great innovative new machine that is more like an appliance cuz it so damn easy to use and you complain.


----------



## kilowatt (Jan 7, 2002)

no offence taken, themacko

Remember, though, it was personal preference which killed off the cube... it wasn't necessarily because it was ugly, but it just didn't get enough buyers, and had hardware probs.

And I can't stand having zip drives, usb hubs, etc all over my desk. I'd rather mount them in a case. But, thats just personal preference ;-)

In the end, I'm sure this product will pull through.


----------



## StarScream (Jan 7, 2002)

Iam in Love with the new iMac its    F A N T A S T I C !!! 

I want one 

My G4 400 is outdated   Snik..

if the consumer line is moved to the G4 thats means that the Pro line is moved to the G5


----------



## serpicolugnut (Jan 7, 2002)

5 months ago I spent $3499 for a G4/800DP with Superdrive. Now for half that price, I can get a single processor 800 with Superdrive and a 15" LCD Monitor! 

This is why the new iMac will be such a hit. It could very well eat in to Pro sales, at least until Apple gets new speed bumped PowerMac G4's (or G5's) out the door.


----------



## gerbick (Jan 7, 2002)

1024x768!?  you know, for mac OS X, that's not high enough.  one problem I have with my iBook is how quickly the screen fills up at the resolution.  

besides, I run 1600x1200 normally.  I need the monitor space... or maybe Apple will finally release a Virtual Windows Manager


----------



## kilowatt (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> *
> * flat panel - who wants a CRT anymore?  And this screen is far more adjustable, and easier to adjust, than any other LCD that comes with windows boxes.
> *



I'd like a screen that does over 1024x768 when I pay $1799. CRT or LCD. I like lcd's plenty. Just not 14" lcd's that do only 1024x768.

And yes, it can burn dvd's. but do you really think the imac people want to burn dvd's?

And regardless of internal storage, data needs to go out, too. Yes, floppies are antiquated. But sometimes nothing will do like a zip for that photoshop file that can't fit in an email attachment and is to small to warrant a cd burn.

I know removable storage is on its way out, but that hasn't happened yet.

when everyone saw the cube, it was a hit. With this, people are split. The cube went on ice. And I think this will, too.


----------



## ksv (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm 100 % sure it will be a hit. Just look at the iPod, which I absolutely thought would fail, there are already sold 125 000 of them!

  

And it's SOOO cool! And FAAST! Oh man! 

And, it has a 15" LCD display! 

Expanding it should also be possible. The original iMac wasn't built for expanding, but it IS possible. Wasn't THAT hard to put a new 100 GB in it 

I can't wait!


----------



## kenny (Jan 7, 2002)

> I have to agree with you on this, but you are getting a TON for your money. The 15" display equals a 17" CRT (what 95% of the population uses). You're getting a huge harddrive and fast processor. Unfortunately, they should've kept the old iMac line for sale for a sub$1000 price.



Actually, the old style iMacs are still available @ the applestore, and it looks like they've refreshed the line a little; only indigo, graphite and snow are available, minimum memory is 128MB. Your choice of G3/500 or G3/600. The base config is $799 (500/20G/128MB) and $999 (600/40G/256M). It's not surprising that this was not mentioned @ the keynote; the darling of the show was the new one, but I suspect that the older, crt equipped iMacs to continue until it's affordable for Apple to drop the price on the new one to similar levels.


----------



## edX (Jan 7, 2002)

i am certainly not an instant fan but the more i think about the new imac, the more i think it will succede in the long run.

1) cost - incredible value!! probably the only thing that killed the cube
2) dvd at that price - on roxio's discussion group, dvd burning is one of the single largest frustrations to users of toast - especially for pc users. lots of people want to put their home vids on disc. new imac can do it right out of the box. people will wow (or wheeeeeeee)
3) even easier to use than old imac. there isn't a desk style made that will cramp access to it. the size of the screen virtually assures nothing large enough to get in your way will get close to it. btw - screen size might be limited by balance. too much bigger screen might tip it over. and i wish some cable connections were right out front. that would be even easier.
4) appeal to girlfriends factor. don't take this one for granted. 
5) this is just introductory model. just think of how short a wait it might be to get the new low end for $999 with free memory upgrade, free printer and a free digital camera to work with iphoto. by july maybe?
6)COST! COST!! COST!!!!! - getting an almost pr level mac at consumer prices!!!

still, i wish thay had either made the base with angles or the screen round so it looked more appealling but that is just my pref.  with a round screen it would look like a vanity mirror - girlfriend factor times 2!!


----------



## theed (Jan 7, 2002)

Girlfriend factor.  You rock.  Most geeks are too insecure and want to impress their geek friends so their egos feel OK.  For impressing geek friends you get something in all black made by IBM and tout some horrible limitation as though it were a feature.  "And the video card is monochrome, but that's great because I live on the command line anyway."

It takes a really secure man to actually wield a computer purchase as a girl grabber.  Don't get me wrong, I think you're on to something.  Hell if you bought me that iMac I might be your girl ... surgery and everything.  I just don't think too many others are going to "get" the power of the iMac chick magnet.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Jan 7, 2002)

> And yes, it can burn dvd's. but do you really think the imac people want to burn dvd's?


I do. Many of the people who bought the original iMac DV did it to do video editing. Burning a DVD is a natural progression of that. 

My fiancés cousin has an iMac DV. For Christmas, we made her a DVD with some footage of our family and some digtal photo slide shows. Their jaws dropped to the floor. When I told them how easy it was to do, they were ready to run out and buy a new $2500 PowerMac just to do that. Now, they can buy a new $1800 iMac to do the same thing.

Apple is positioned right now to capitalize on iDVD. There is nothing like it on the PC. The closest options are slower, less elegant, and the output isn't nearly as nice.

The only thing I don't like about iDVD is that damn Apple watermark it puts on all projects. I need to find a way to hack that out, because I've got several DVD projects coming up, and I doubt the clients want a watermarked Apple on them...*undefined*


----------



## simX (Jan 7, 2002)

OK, a couple things:

I agree completely with everyone that this new iMac will be a hit.  They pack so much power into so little space, and at a VERY cheap price for what you get.

Did anyone mention video mirroring?   The new iMac now has it built-in (VGA video).

It has a 100 MHz system bus.

Pro speakers now included with the two high end iMacs?  Those speakers rock.

One thing to bear in mind: the original iMac was priced at $1299.  Did it die?  No.  It was a spectacular hit.  This new iMac is such an innovative and power-packed machine that it will most certainly be a hit.

Oh, did I mention that I would buy one right now if I had the money?  I don't care what other people think: it looks good.


----------



## theed (Jan 7, 2002)

I want an additional monitor to go beside the original displaying a contiguous desktop.  This would allow pretty much the machine I'm using now to be replaced be the iMac.  ... we need a name to distinguish this thing from the CRT model.  iMac is too generic a term now.  For the moment I propose I iMacLamp.


----------



## RacerX (Jan 7, 2002)

Lets compare Apples to Apples (or iMacs to iMacs in this case). What would $1300 get you yesterday? An iMac with a 15" (13.6" viewable) CRT with max res of 1024x768 running off a ATI Rage 128 with 16 MB VRAM, G3/600, 256 MB of RAM, a 40 GB hard drive and CD-RW. What do you get for the same price today? An iMac with a 15" (15" viewable) active LCD at 1024x768 running off a GeForce2 MMX with 32 MB of VRAM, G4/700, 256 MB of RAM, 40 GB hard drive and CD-RW.

Yeah, I can really see this not selling.


----------



## AdmiralAK (Jan 7, 2002)

doesnt it come with a superdrive ? (DVD + CD-RW combo)


----------



## mindbend (Jan 7, 2002)

The original 6 million mark may be a bit tough, but it'll sell at least half that, which I've got to believe is still a success. Other than multiple monitor outputs (not mirrowing, but a 2nd monitor port) it is better than what I'm using for professional work, looks better and is just cooler. 

I'm a bit disappointed in the fan (I can't relate to how loud 25 db is, hopefully that's very quiet). That's one of the subtle things I love about my iMac. Dead quiet. I bring home my external firewire and can barely hear myself think it's so loud in comparison. And my mom's brand new Gateway, holy crap, it's like a blender! How do they put up with that noise?


----------



## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

> The only thing I don't like about iDVD is that damn Apple watermark it puts on all projects. I need to find a way to hack that out, because I've got several DVD projects coming up, and I doubt the clients want a watermarked Apple on them...



really?! that's what I want iDVD for on my JUST PURCHASED new iMac! can you show me what you mean!


----------



## MalinH (Jan 8, 2002)

As with many of Apple's recent products, after a few glances, iMac (2) grows on me. The more I think about it, the more I like the design when I think of it as a 'digital hub.'

As for the price, well, it's comparable to the original iMac, but with a lot more punch. A relatively fast G4, AND an LCD display, AND a small surface imprint (AND a Superdrive for a bit more cash.) It's cute in a different way from the original iMac, and while it's probably going to get a love/hate reception, it should be a hit...


----------



## TommyWillB (Jan 8, 2002)

Yeah the video resoultion and out put is clearly the lowpoint...

Why bother putting a GeForce if the best we can do is 1024x768?

And why bother putting a video out if it too tops out at 1024x768 ... and only does mirroting rather than driving a 2nd monitor?

Othewise it seems reasonable... except that the base looks like a table lamp.


----------



## free&unmuzzled (Jan 8, 2002)

if you think about the way the display moves on the armatage, i.e in an arc, you will realise why the base is that shape. form fits function. imagine that instead the base was a flat topped cylinder. given the same length for the arm, the display would wack the base at a certain point in its range. make the arm longer and balance  may be comprimised, plus it would really start to look like a sunflower.

i can think of solutions i would find more attractive, but the design is good even if you don't like the aesthetic result.


----------



## Frederic (Jan 8, 2002)

I think that we all agree, more or less, that the new iMac is a nice piece of hardware, with a beautifull screen, a reasonnable amount of memory, a good HD, and a fast G4. The internal bus is maybe a little slow, but it seems logical for Apple to keep the 133Mhz for the faster (and more expensive) machines.

The look is... futile, because some will love it, and some will not... For me, I think it's a little strange, and, to be honnest, I think the Cube was far more beautifull. But again, it's only a matter of taste.

The *real* problem is the price. Maybe the Applemaniaks that we are can think that the price is fair, in regard of what Apple put in the box, and maybe this way of thinking is not a bad one, but I think that the target of this new computer is not _only_ the Apple fan, but also the guy who never touched a computer, and even the guy who is a little tired of WindBlows... And for those, I think the machine is too expensive. It should be around 990$... It should be at the same price of the old iMac...

I can only hope that this new, nice computer will not follow the same way that the Cube did...

My B&W G3 is getting old, but this iMac is probably not the machine that will replace it...


----------



## benpoole (Jan 8, 2002)

This old chestnut from Kilowatt:



> And I can't stand having zip drives, usb hubs, etc all over my desk. I'd rather mount them in a case. But, thats just personal preference ;-)


Exactly. If I wanted all that kind of stuff, I'd buy a PowerMac.

*This is a consumer machine with limited expandability!!!!*

How many times do people have to say it?!?



Anyway, I quite like it. Wasn't sure at first. But then I only have a Rev. B Bondi iMac, so what I'd do to swap... Heh heh.

As for fan noise. Well, my old iMac has no fan. But with the help of that bloody CD-ROM drive, it sure is NOISY (especially when taking advantage of the sound-amplification properties of my all-wood desk!


----------



## ksv (Jan 8, 2002)

Yeh, remember, it's an iMac, not a PowerMac! 

And, for the LAST time, the old iMacs are still available form the Apple Store!!


----------



## dlookus (Jan 8, 2002)

> Remember, though, it was personal preference which killed off the cube... it wasn't necessarily because it was ugly, but it just didn't get enough buyers, and had hardware probs.



What!?

The cube failed because it was freakin' expensive. The new (top of the line) imac for the same price as the 450 MHz (bottom of the line)cube is 800 MHz, has a monitor and a DVD burner. Those are much better features. I understand that the cube came out a while ago, but still. At the time that the cube came out you could get a G4 tower with 50 fewer MHz but 3 PCI Slots for hundreds less. The cube is a great machine.

It seems that the argument is that the iMac is not for you. So don't buy one. It's not for me either, but most people I know don't need PCI slots. It's got great sound, great video and all the interfaces you'll ever need. I think it's an excellent computer.


----------



## briareos (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt _
> *
> 
> And regardless of internal storage, data needs to go out, too. Yes, floppies are antiquated. But sometimes nothing will do like a zip for that photoshop file that can't fit in an email attachment and is to small to warrant a cd burn.
> *



I just bought 100 blank CDs (800 MB/74 minute) for 29.95. That's 30 cents per disc. This is vastly more cost effective than zip disks or floppies, and it doesn't take a whole lot longer to burn a couple of small files than it does to copy 'em to a zip disk.


----------



## ksv (Jan 8, 2002)

CD's produce more waste than zippies 

You americans behave so egoistic and unmoral, you don't think about further generations


----------



## Smash (Jan 8, 2002)

OK guys...

There are things I agree other... completely disagree:

1) Price: No the new iMac is not so expensive. 
- Just try to have a PC with same features for the same price ... impossible, I've tried ... and I'm selling computers !

- Apple's way of doing is alomst the same: same range of high price decreasing the same way. Everybody finds new products expensive, because we're comparing wih products that are reaching the end and are at lowest price, please take a look at the price of the fisrt iMac. Other example: iBook, first reaction, too expensive, now the most affordable laptop !!

- U.S. resident should not cry against the price it's almost 33% more expensive in Europe... ... ...

2) I find the iMac simply beautifull, but that's a matter of person.

3) High end users, as a friend of mine: who's network manager in huge european company, Peecee freaks, thinks that XP is really a good OS.
His reaction: "A new iMac with OSX ? With alittle more RAM, I want one, and I can do everything on it.

4) "Completely-new-user": my girl friend and her mother who bought an iMac 5 month ago. "Why haven't we wait a little more, it's the most beautifull computer I've ever seen." 

6) I've got plenty of example like this, and it has been presented yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon, I've never seen a reaction like this over a computer !

7) And finally, I got a Cube, I love it, most of the guys talking about this machine never had one in their hands because I can assure you that all the people I've seen trying it (High level user or my grand mother) have all the same reaction: "How can we still buy "normal" computers after trying this... " this let me dream.

With this new iMac, Apple has one more time succed to let us dream, to innovate, to make a computer a revolution... it's inncredible but it IS Apple


----------



## briareos (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *CD's produce more waste than zippies
> 
> You americans behave so egoistic and unmoral, you don't think about further generations   *



And it's just become my life goal to bury Norway in discarded CDs.


----------



## mrfluffy (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Smash _
> *- U.S. resident should not cry against the price it's almost 33% more expensive in Europe... ... ...*



well said, iMacs are converted $ to £ here (the rate is about $1.5 to £1), and they're damn hard to find.


----------



## benpoole (Jan 9, 2002)

Agreed -- SO annoying! Unless you're a business, you're going to be paying VAT. So the prices of the new iMac in UK are as follows:

- CD-RW 700 MHz: £987 ex VAT, £1149 inc VAT
- Combo 700 MHz: £1105 ex VAT, £1299 inc VAT
- Super  800 MHz: £1361 ex VAT, £1599 inc VAT

Now, the current exchange rate per the BBC is £1 = $1.4398

If I translate the VAT-inclusive prices to US, and compare with the US deals, this is what you get:

- CD-RW 700 MHz: $1299 in US ($1654 in UK)
- Combo 700 MHz: $1499 in US ($1870 in UK)
- Super  800 MHz: $1799 in US  ($2302 in UK)

Rip-off Britain again!

Now, as I understand it, Apple's market share in Europe has fallen over the past couple of years, despite sales coups like the iMac. If that is true, is it any wonder, with price differences like this?

Yeah, we all know the UK is expensive, but even so. I'd *love*  to be "only" paying $1,799 for a top-end iMac!

So the next time I hear guys from the States telling me to buy a new Mac (I still have a 233 MHz G3 iMac) -- as in the recent "why are you still on OS 9" debate -- see what we have to deal with over here.

Grrr...


----------



## ksv (Jan 9, 2002)

Yah, here the cheapest iMac costs about as much as the high end one in US.

Stop complaining, americans!


----------



## AdmiralAK (Jan 9, 2002)

Hey ben...something loks fishy about thoise US to UK prices .. are you sure thats what is comes to ? 


Tell you one thing.. I get my brand spanking new triband GSM phones from teh UK before they hit here he he   other than that I buy stuff from here


----------



## benpoole (Jan 9, 2002)

Well, I just did a straight currency conversion to show how lucky the US guys are! Yup, that's what things come to. OK, so some states have sales tax to go on top of the Apple prices, but I bet that tax isn't nearly 18%!!

This has always been the UK's experience with Apple products.

For example, I bought my Rev B iMac three years ago, with a Umax scanner (1220U) and an Epson SC 740 printer. The bundle was £1,200 -- around $1,720 -- which was considered an absolute bargain!

Yeah, mobile phones here are cheap, compared with the US. Unlike most thingies techie though, the US has always been behind Europe and Japan in terms of mobile communications.

I'd sooner have cheaper Apple stuff ;-)


----------



## serpicolugnut (Jan 9, 2002)

European readers of this board are complaining that

1) we waste too much because we LOVE CD-Rs...

2) Britian's VAT hikes the prices up.

Response to item 1) If I ever see you on the road, I'm going to run you down in my big gas guzzling SUV, while at the same time I will be throwing out my old CD-Rs at the poor homeless people begging for change on the street.

NOT! 

Get real. CD's can be recycled. No one is really doing it right now, but the materials can be reprocessed back in to new CD-Rs. When it becomes profitable to do so, you will see it start to happen.

I don't see Europeans coming up with ways to recycle those damn Yugo's, that you usually see broken down on the side of the road.... Talk about an environmental disaster waiting to happen...

Response to item 2) Sorry, can't really help the fact that because Britian is a socialist country, you pay much high taxes than us here in the US. This obviously puts American based companies at a disadvantage selling to your citizens, but unless Tony Blair and Parliament changes something, this problem will affect all US imports, not just Macs.


----------



## benpoole (Jan 9, 2002)

Jesus wept. I've lived in the US and in the UK, I've studied politics in both countries, I like America and Americans. But...

... the UK is so *not* a socialist state...

... I haven't seen a Yugo in years, especially not in the UK...

... And as far as CDs go, burn as many as you want...

.. Just don't be an all-too-typical American cliché:



> This obviously puts American based companies at a disadvantage selling to your citizens, but unless Tony Blair and Parliament changes something, this problem will affect all US imports, not just Macs.


... That's boring.

Now, whilst I agree the taxation is a piece of Brit stupidity, it doesn't detract from the fact that Apple charge more for their products overseas than in the US. And considering the profit margins on much of the product line are high, this is kind of cack if Apple want more market penetration in Europe.

But I guess that's how they got such large cash reserves. Good luck to 'em!


----------



## kenny (Jan 9, 2002)

Just a thought..

I wonder if import/export tariffs are imposed on the machines, adding to the pre-VAT price. A quick bit of maths suggests about a US$160 difference on the high-end iMac which, although high, could be largely explained by the various tariffs/import fees imposed on bringing that into the UK. Figure in good old-fashioned shipping costs, and it'd be almost right. Sucks, but explainable.

Too bad Apple's not selling 'em at the Duty-Free Shops...


----------



## benpoole (Jan 9, 2002)

Yeah, that would make sense, except AFAIK, Apple have a manufacturing facility in Ireland (certainly that was where my aged iMac was built).

No idea if it's still there. But I don't think UK Macs are imported from the US... I could be wrong!


----------



## kenny (Jan 9, 2002)

Yeah, it used to be a lot of the Powerbooks came out of Cork as well, but a quick look @ the bottom of my iBook says that it was assembled in Taiwan. So, it's entirely possible (although probably not the most efficient way) that they're being imported in the UK via the US. Not sure...


----------



## Smash (Jan 9, 2002)

Just to say it isn't unfortunatelly just UK  !!!

example top iMac

U.S. 1799 $
Belgium 2554 $

You see what I mean .... ... ... ...

With prices like this, you realize that you really have to love macs to pre-order it ! And why only enterprises can afford macs, God bless my boss ;o)


----------



## ppcebay (Jan 10, 2002)

Hey Guys, the new iMac is a nice machine. Superdrive, 15' flat screen, g4 800 and a nvidia 32 meg. You r crazy, a similar system up to a week ago cost 3000 dollars and now is all there. Don't forget that this is a consumer supercomputer. you can do everything and more that you can do with the fastest pentium  computer. The superdrive from pioneer cost 500 $ alone, that makes the system 1200. The flat screen 400 and we r down to 800. That is your sub 1000 supercomputer. Plus on the apple store they still sell a 799 $ iMac from the old series so, here we go. Let's stop criticize everything that apple does, I believe is a really creative and innovative machine. Plus lets wait to see it before we jump at conclusion.

Ciao


----------



## benpoole (Jan 10, 2002)

Hey, I'm not dissing the machine -- I think on first glance that Apple have done a great job. I just hate the fact it's so expensive in certain territories when it doesn't have to be!


----------



## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

New IMAC super computer??? HAHAHAHAHAHA

You've been using Imacs for too long, cause you've gotten used to slow performance, G4 800mhz can't even beat an old 1ghz Athlon Thunderbird.


----------



## serpicolugnut (Jan 10, 2002)

> ... the UK is so not a socialist state...



Maybe not in the pure sense of the word, but although the UK employs some democratic philosphies, it's approach to health care and social welfare programs are very socialistic, especially when viewed through the eyes of citizen of a constitutional republic.

Yes, the prices are going to be slightly higher in the UK, even aside from the VAT. Although there is a Apple plant in Cork, Ireland, I'm pretty sure it's not making the new iMacs. Those are coming from Quanta in Taiwan, I believe.

I'm sure Apple's prices reflect the added costs (whatever they may be) of doing business in the UK. Aside from the VAT that the buyer pays, Apple probably has to pay quite a bit more taxes just to do business in the UK, and they need to pass those costs on to the consumers.

Again, if you don't like it, pressure you government to adopt a more business friendly attitude and lower corporate taxes. 

"But I don't want those greedy companies to get a tax break", you say...

Well, this just illustrates the point (valid here in the USA as well), that *CORPORATIONS DONT PAY TAXES, PEOPLE DO* . The Corporation always just passes the cost of paying taxes on to their customers.

Sorry, this is quickly becoming Economic 101...


----------



## benpoole (Jan 10, 2002)

Heh. Like me in my original post, you're grossly over-simplifying the situation!

There is an Apple UK. We're not importing all our Macs from the US and paying appropriate duties etc., Apple computers are imported from Ireland, Taiwan, wherever, like any other consumer product in the UK (very little, if anything, is made here any more!)

It is an intentional pricing decision for Apple to charge what it charges in Europe, and that's their prerogative. But they shouldn't then talk about trying to boost consumer uptake / overall market share in the same territories, when they're being intentionally non-competitive!

In addition, "pressuring ones local government to change things"?

C'mon! Are you from Planet Naive?!?


----------



## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

Yeh. Macs are waay more expensive in Europe, even without the tax. Still they're more expensive in Norway thanin UK


----------



## mrfluffy (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *New IMAC super computer??? HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You've been using Imacs for too long, cause you've gotten used to slow performance, G4 800mhz can't even beat an old 1ghz Athlon Thunderbird. *


it is a super computer it performs over 1 billion floating point calculations a second, they dont base it on an athlon thunderbird.


----------



## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *New IMAC super computer??? HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You've been using Imacs for too long, cause you've gotten used to slow performance, G4 800mhz can't even beat an old 1ghz Athlon Thunderbird. *



Maan. Apple had supercomputers years ago.


----------



## Smash (Jan 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *New IMAC super computer??? HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You've been using Imacs for too long, cause you've gotten used to slow performance, G4 800mhz can't even beat an old 1ghz Athlon Thunderbird. *



Yes of course...
And you're gonna tell us that Windows XP is far better than any other system... that you like the sound of the fan put on your "suuuuuper" processor, because of it's high power... No my dear it's because thins thing that you call a precessor is as the rest of microbrol windows compatible... not finished when released... 

Get informed and read processor speed as noyhing to do with computer performance, it is the architecture of the computter that matter.

Go on reading on this forum and TRY a mac before saying something completely false...

Don't take it personnal man, I do not blame you, you just don't know

;o)


----------



## Zapski (Jan 15, 2002)

OK, so I haven't read all four pages of this, but I would like to say that as someone who actually works in an Apple store, that the new iMac is drawing crowds every day, and not just Mac users either. I've talked to several people who are ready to switch from Windows just because of the price point and features of the new iMac.

If the initial reaction is anything to go by, I expect to sell a great deal of them.


----------



## bigbadbill (Jan 30, 2002)

FAIL?
Are you terribly misinformed, or is this just another chance for you to turn on your whinner? This new iMac is selling like crazy. I ordered mine the day they were announced at MacWorld and I'm still on back order until mid February. I'll bet you complained when they introduced the mouse, saying "That thing will never work, nobody's gonna use a mouse to input data, people are to used to keyboards."

EXPENSIVE?
Show me another package that offers an LCD flat panel, 60GB HD, DVD burner, CD burner, and an 800 mhz processor, and the most advanced OS ever put to bytes for under $2000  IT DOSEN'T EXSIST!

UGLY?
This thing is beautiful. If you want to talk ugly, call your mother!

Once again Apple boldly goes where no PC has gone before ... don't be jealous, be happy for those of us who can afford one!


----------



## edX (Jan 30, 2002)

welcome to the site bigbadbill!!

too bad you weren't here when this thread was going strong. pretty opinionated for a 1st post. hope we see lots more like it in the future. 


it's ok. you're among bretheren now


----------



## kilowatt (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bigbadbill _
> *FAIL?
> Are you terribly misinformed, or is this just another chance for you to turn on your whinner? This new iMac is selling like crazy. I ordered mine the day they were announced at MacWorld and I'm still on back order until mid February. I'll bet you complained when they introduced the mouse, saying "That thing will never work, nobody's gonna use a mouse to input data, people are to used to keyboards."
> 
> ...



Although I am about to make another thread (which is my admission of guilt ;-) ), I want to set the record straight:

1) Discounting the dvd burning model, the new imac is still very expensive. Not to mention that the dvd burning one can only do 1024x768. I mean, thats messed up. WTF? Don't most dvd burning people want something more? (Like a 17" model that does 1280x1024.. heh I wouldn't be surprised if we see that soon). I think apple HAS to keep a budget friendly model out. Now, rumor has it that the new imac will in time actually cost $999, which is GREAT! BTW, I am sitting infrount of a QuickSilver g4, which cost more than $1699. Much more. So if I wanted to, I could probably sell my comp and get a new imac.

2) Ugly is a relative term. I've seen it now, and you are all right, its not that bad. Infact, I think its rather pretty. 

3) My mom's not ugly. And if you say it again, I'm gona ping flood your ass with my college's ATM line, all day for a week ;-) (ok so I probably wouldn't do that.. they didn't like it last time...)

4) Welcome to the board. Nothing personal here, btw. Glad you stuck your neck in this thread, we need some new voices!


----------



## Aqualung (Feb 3, 2002)

The new iMac rocks, and it's not going to be a failure!  A few points:

Kilowatt, calling the iMac "ugly" is proof that it's a good design.  That's because any design that elicits such powerful emotional responses is a success, it's powerful effect on the emotions is not easy to do.  A love/hate response is expected, but as long as enough people "love' the new design, then it will sell fine.  

As an analogy, we can use your mom.  I think that your mom is butt-ugly, but it doesn't matter, because your father found beauty in her and that attraction resulted in your birth.  Same with the iMac...plenty of people will like it and buy it.  

As for price, I agree that the price is a tad high, but if you price comparable dell computers, with 15" lcds of comparable quality, you'll find that the iMac is actually about the same price, if not a bit cheaper.  

The iMac differs from the cube in a number of respects:

1.  Price.  The imac is cheaper than the cube was, but it comes with a 15" LCD display.  It's got a G4, a fast, 7200 rpm HD, and the optical drive is good on the high end models as well.  It also comes with style, something that's hard to put a price on, but looks great on one's desk.  

2.  Features:  There is no other way to get the features of the superdrive iMac for so little in any other computer.  It's an excellent deal if you want a superdrive for burning DVDs that you create on your computer.  For those who only need a CDRW drive, the $1500 iMac is a good deal. A full gamut of I/O ports graces the iMac, and it's built to last.  The software bundle is outstanding.  The ability to edit digital movies and burn them to DVD is amazing for such an inexpensive computer...even 2 years ago this simply wouldn't have been possible on a consumer desktop computer at all.  Now it's within reach of anyone who really wants it.  Imagine, that anyone aspiring to be an independent film maker can now buy an iMac and FCP and have the ability to create a professionally edited movie, on a DVD.  This opens up the visual arts to a far wider range of creative individuals than ever before possible.

3.  Value:  combine the price and features, and you have value.  I think it's safe to say that the new iMac probably offers the most value of any Apple product in some time.  It's got far more value than the CRT iMac did, and there's no question that it has more value than the cube.

Shortcomings:  I don't believe the iMac is perfect, but I suspect Apple will correct some of it's shortcomings in the future.

1.  Screen size.  For me and many others, a 15" LCD is too small.  However I expect Apple to offer a 17" LCD iMac sometime in the future.  The base is heavy enough, and the chrome arm is sturdy enough for at least a 17" LCD.  Cut out the superdrive, and add a 17" display, and I think such a model would fly off the shelves.

2.  Video card:  It's a shame that the video card isn't upgradeable.  If it were in an AGP slot then the iMac would boast even greater value since the video card is usually rendered obsolete more quickly than any other component.  We can be consoled by Apple's choice of a standard video card at least--32 MB Geforce 2mx w/ddr RAM is nothing to sneeze at, and it should offer excellent performance for today's games.  Unfortunately, it won't be able to play tomorrow's games, but it still makes the g4 iMac more of a gaming machine than any previous iMac.

3.  Processor:  The G4 CPU in the iMac needs to be faster.  This is more of a marketing issue than a performance issue, since the G4 actually does keep up with Pentiums clocked up to twice it's MHz.  But still, it's difficult for Apple to convince Wintel drones of this, and thus fewer people will convert from windows. 

4.  Ports/power button difficult to access.   This seems to be the one tradeoff Apple made when styling the iMac.  Not a big deal, but it would be nice to have a few USB, FW ports on the front, and the power button should be on the front of the base, or the display.  Not a big issue, though. 

But to say the iMac will be a failure, that's absurd.  Already, it's selling like mad, and there is no indication that sales will subside anytime soon.  If Apple is smart they will update the iMac at MWNY, with a speedbump, lower prices perhaps, and hopefully a 17" LCD.  That will keep the iMacs moving....

A new G4 iMac running OS X is Apple's best ticket to increased market share in a long time, IMO.


----------



## Inline_guy (Jun 16, 2002)

I have used a PC all my life.   In fact I had only touched a mac a very few times before the new flat screen iMac.  I went to art school and we used them in some classes, but I never used anything other than Photshop on it then I would go home to my PC and finish my project on Photoshop there.

But Apple one two punched me.  I had wanted an iPod for some time, but was not going to switch to Apple for that one product....until  DRUM ROLL please.... I saw the flat screen iMac.  I mean I saw it on a Wednesday and by the next Wednesday I marched right out and bought the SuperDrive model and an iPod.  They got me.  Now I love macs...

I think they did well.


----------



## uoba (Jun 16, 2002)

the only problem is I gotta go to work tomorrow and work on my G4/466


----------



## bigbadbill (Jun 18, 2002)

Uoba-

I've got that same problem. Makes for a long day!

Kilowatt-

Sorry about the ugly mother comment. I was just making fun. I would not like my ass to be ping flooded, it doesn't sound very comfortable...


----------



## Zaphod_B (Jun 18, 2002)

I was a PC user for over a decade (since 1987 actually). Had it all from windows 3.1 till windows XP. And it SUCKED. Tried Linux too. Very cool for running your personal mailserver, webserver or whatever. But not as a desktop (however, KDE 3 is nice). It's just inconsistent and it is NOT EASY too learn (although getting better all the time).

Now I've got this iMac since 2 weeks. And I LOVE IT! I threw out all three PC's (!!), and my desk too. My iMac now sits in a corner on my dining table in my (small) livingroom. Saves lots of space and looks cool. And yes, the GF-factor is important  ... They LOVE it  

If you like the looks of the machine is a matter of taste. I do love it from the first second I saw it. 

About the speed / price: if you compare it to PowerMac prices recently, it sure is a lot of computing power for your bucks. Common man, you've got a 700 MHz machine with 256 MB RAM and a combodrive for 1899 Euro's (discount price I paid). That's a bloody bargain in my opinion (1899 euro's is around $1700 I guess).

Would you mind formulating a bit different in next posts? I don't mind posting your OPINION. But don't say things like: "It is just crap, shit blablabla". Not very nice and a bit like a flame. Let's just be open and friendly here and share our _opinions_ in a mature way


----------

