# Apple quietly changed the SuperDrive speed of PowerBook G4 17"



## ddma (Jan 20, 2003)

Apple quietly changed the SuperDrive speed of PowerBook G4 17" from write DVD-R at 2x speed down to write DVD-R at 1x speed.

New Specs.
http://a608.g.akamai.net/7/608/51/3...com/powerbook/pdf/PowerBookG417_DS_022003.pdf

Old Specs.
http://a608.g.akamai.net/7/608/51/3...com/powerbook/pdf/PowerBookG417_DS_012003.pdf

PowerBook Tech Specs page has updated to the new specs for PowerBook 17" and the download link is now pointed to the new specs too.
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

But the front page of the product is still showing "Write DVD at 2x".
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

even though i am gettin a 17inch powerbook. i dont really care about  the dvd-r speed because here in Greece i can only find dvds to right at 1x and only up to 4.5 GB


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## ddma (Jan 20, 2003)

DVD-R 1x write a full 4.3GB data in 55 mins.
DVD-R 2x write a full 4.3GB data in 24 mins.


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

ur point being? 
whats the purpose of a having a fast car if u cant go fast ?


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## ddma (Jan 20, 2003)

No, no, I didn't mean it  Just think there is a great different between 1x and 2x write speed. Forgive me I'm stupid


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

yes there is and when im writin DVDs . its 1x is quite annoyin since i can write at 2x
but  i think they should focus and stress more on the ACTUALS DVDs. so that we get more 2x dvds over the world. and also 9.4 GB dvds cause up till now i cant find any of those here in greece. and i DO need them  

also . a 2x dvd drive might have other disadvantages. maybe weight. size. or other problems  
anyway i dont think there are many notebooks oute there with a superdrive and a 17 inch screen. so im happy


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## g3joel (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *ur point being?
> whats the purpose of a having a fast car if u cant go fast ? *



I think the point is that DVD writable media will not stay stuck at 1x speed. If the the drive is capable of 2x speed then you can take advantage of the faster media when it becomes available. Pretty obvious to me.


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

BTW . i know this doest fit in here. but my dad just sent me a case for my iPod. and the control with the head phones that they released last summer (i got my ipod befora that)... the control is really coool  wowww!!!


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## hulkaros (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *BTW . i know this doest fit in here. but my dad just sent me a case for my iPod. and the control with the head phones that they released last summer (i got my ipod befora that)... the control is really coool  wowww!!! *



...son of...
























...your father and mother!


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## ddma (Jan 20, 2003)

...the beats.

You are so lucky have a great father who knows what you want!


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## phatsharpie (Jan 20, 2003)

Weird... Maybe it was originally a typo? If you check the 12" and 15" PowerBook specs, they both write at 1x speed too. However, the 15" reads at 6x while the 12" and 17" both reads at 8x. Maybe it is indeed a newer drive in the 12" and 17" but 2x ready perhaps?


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## ddma (Jan 20, 2003)

Well, if the 12" and 17" used the same superdrive, they would not have seperated the specs. They would have written this (Model: 12" & 17") and it would also prevent the typo mistakes.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 20, 2003)

One question: no superdrive can burn 9GB yet, right? Eventhough the medium would be such...

And I heard many times, that the superdrive can burn DVD RWs too. So, what's the point of not calling it DVD-R/RW drive? Because it can't delete the DVD-RW????


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## hulkaros (Jan 20, 2003)

No current shipping Apple branded SuperDrives can burn single-sided 9GB DVD-R disks...

But the magic word is Single-sided: In the market (however not here in Greece) exist DOUBLE-sided 9GB DVD-R disks which store 4.7 GB per side...

Now, can I have those disks in the price of the current 4.7 GB single-sided media please?


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *..Now, can I have those disks in the price of the current 4.7 GB single-sided media please? ..     *



hahahha.. keep on dreamin HULK.  
     i think u and i should move to another country  no broadband connection. dvds only at 4.5 GBs. expensive macs. expensive DVDs. crappy game support for macs... i wanna get out of here


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## hulkaros (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *hahahha.. keep on dreamin HULK.
> i think u and i should move to another country  no broadband connection. dvds only at 4.5 GBs. expensive macs. expensive DVDs. crappy game support for macs... i wanna get out of here *



Maybe just maybe, I will move out from Greece! And you know what? Maybe I will go to Sweden! THEY have broadband, MANY Apple stores/shops, an official Apple Store On-Line, whatever I need/imagine about computers, almost excellent health care system and schools (which is MOST important about my future kids  ) and MANY other things that we lack here in Greece JUST because we were born in the wrong(!?) country... 

Anyways, I read that you want to go to England or Sweden: If you go to Sweden let me know so that we will be able to meet there    What do you think?


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## stealth (Jan 20, 2003)

i think HULK stinks  bruce banner is gay.

The Matrix has you ! ..


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## hulkaros (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *i think HULK stinks  bruce banner is gay.
> 
> The Matrix has you ! .. *



Hulkaros will smash puny Stealth... grrrr!

arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh..... grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrr.... Hulkaros smash!

After couple of punches The Matrix has black eyes and is K.O. out of this planet and into the outer space 

The Matrix changed its appearance and habbits into The Stealth mode when Hulkaros is near it


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## solrac (Jan 21, 2003)

you know... 9.4 gb DVDs are not available...

they are made by pressing... using machines that cost $500,000

That is why you cannot copy a DVD-movie from the video store. Those are made on 9.4s. You can only buy 4.5 size for home use.

if i'm wrong let me know, but I don't think so....


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 21, 2003)

If every drive can read those 9.4GB DVDs, why shouldn't it be possible to burn them too? Isn't it the same to the CDRs???


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## hulkaros (Jan 21, 2003)

Browse here:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...IndustrialProductDetails/0,1444,32416,00.html

And then here:
http://www.tapeandmedia.com/detail.asp?product_id=DVS-R470WDD50
http://www.electroweb.com/product/media2.htm

We can order them at our company (we are in Greece) BUT as you can see they ARE expensive and that's the reason why we didn't so far...

That's why I said in a previous post that I hope that companies will lower the prices and make them mainstream... But then again they DON'T want to...


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## stealth (Jan 21, 2003)

even though double sided dvds may be expensive. i must admit that tha 4.5 GB dvd prices have gone done quite a lot here in Greece.
i can get an Intenso (i them consider a relatively good company) DVD 4.5 GB with 3 euros. that $3 per disc. while simple 650mb CDs cost around 0,75 euros. i think thats a good price


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## hulkaros (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *even though double sided dvds may be expensive. i must admit that tha 4.5 GB dvd prices have gone done quite a lot here in Greece.
> i can get an Intenso (i them consider a relatively good company) DVD 4.5 GB with 3 euros. that $3 per disc. while simple 650mb CDs cost around 0,75 euros. i think thats a good price  *



You've been warned Stealth!

Now, seriously: I've burn MANY DVDs for customers, for me, etc. BUT there is a BIG difference in el cheapo DVD-R disks and the expensive branded ones: Compatibility!

While I've NOT tested every single cheap DVD-R disks out there the ones I've tested seem to lack compatibility across a huge spectrum of products: Built-in DVD-ROMs, DVD-R/Ws inside Macs and PCs as well as the deck solutions of Sony, Pioneer, et al. By compatibility I mean the quality of playback or reading data from or even NOT be able to read them at all... While with the branded (but expensive) disks this is a rare phenomenon.

Also, one other thing that the cheap disks lack is the long life and they also damaged much more easily...

As I said: Use them at your own risk...


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## stealth (Jan 21, 2003)

i dont think Intenso is an low quality brand. i might have found their dvds at a low price. BUT i think they should be rather compatible. ill check them out!


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 21, 2003)

So, what about my question? 
If there would be 9GB single-sided DVD-Rs out, would it be possible for a regular Superdrive to burn those 9GB?
Like there are 99mins CDRs out and as far as I know any CDRW-drive can burn the max size of the medium...


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## stealth (Jan 21, 2003)

99 min >? wow. the best ive seen here is 90 by TDK


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## hulkaros (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zammy-Sam _
> *So, what about my question?
> If there would be 9GB single-sided DVD-Rs out, would it be possible for a regular Superdrive to burn those 9GB?
> Like there are 99mins CDRs out and as far as I know any CDRW-drive can burn the max size of the medium... *



Well, technically this cannot occur... From what I know all the current models of SuperDrives cannot write single-sided media above 4.7 GB... However, maybe with a firmware update? Only Pioneer, Matsushita, Apple, et al know for sure 

Also, take note that the >80min of CD-ROMs have issues reproducing their contents in other CD/DVD/etc. devices... Even in other CD-RWs one cannot be sure that his/her 90min CD disk will reproduce its contents without problems! Those things are "Use it at your own risk" areas 

I for one NEVER burn something absolutely important in anything less than a branded CD-R(74min-650MB)/DVD-R(4.7GB) disk at 4 or 8 speed recording... Maybe it sounds insane or paranoid but then again I never had a CD/DVD read error occur even on very old & hard used optical media!


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## jeb1138 (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zammy-Sam _
> *So, what about my question?
> If there would be 9GB single-sided DVD-Rs out, would it be possible for a regular Superdrive to burn those 9GB?
> Like there are 99mins CDRs out and as far as I know any CDRW-drive can burn the max size of the medium... *



The problem with consumer DVD burners is just that -- they are burners, not injection-molders.  DVD _burners_ create one's and zero's by literally burning (or not burning) tiny segments of metal in the dvd.  Professional DVD's one's and zero's are made with actual physical bumps and pits in the plastic.  You can read about this cool, complex process here:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/dvd2.htm

But the important thing about this is a *one-sided* professional DVD disc can have *2 separate layers* of data.  The outer layer's data is stored on a semi-reflective gold layer and the DVD drive's laser can 'see through' the gold layer when it wants to to read the inner layer (which uses Aluminum).  A *double-sided* professional DVD disc can have *4 separate layers*.

The layers are actually created separately and then 'glued' together.  DVD-burner manufacturers have decided that they don't want to have consumers trying to align and glue layers of DVD's together (probably a very good idea), so we are stuck with half the capacity of a professional DVD.

Got any rubber cement?


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## solrac (Jan 21, 2003)

exactly, I think movies at the video store are 9.4 GB ONE SIDED disks.....


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## jeb1138 (Jan 21, 2003)

Right.  More specifically, they are single-sided, dual-layer discs -- although they don't quite hold 9.4 GB.  (The second layer can't hold quite as much.)  They come out to about 8.5 GB total.

Here's a webpage with nice graphical images of the different formats we've all been talking about:
http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_formats.htm#DVD5

Basically:
DVD-5 = 4.7 GB (single-sided, single-layer)
DVD-9 = 8.54 GB (single-sided, dual-layer)
DVD-10 = 9.4 GB (double-sided, single-layer)
DVD-18 = 17.08 GB (double-sided, dual-layer)

DVD-9 and DVD-18 are impossible for current burners to create because they actually consist of two separate layers, made separately and glued together.


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## solrac (Jan 22, 2003)

how much money are DVD-18 disks???!!!!


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## stealth (Jan 22, 2003)

very very expensive i guess


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## aishafenton (Jan 22, 2003)

So does the superdrive support DVD-10?


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## hulkaros (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aishafenton _
> *So does the superdrive support DVD-10? *



Yes oh yes...

Basically is the same thing as the 4.7 GB single sided disks... So, if you can find easily and cheap 9GB disks buy 'em!

Also, let me know so that I will sent you money in order for you to send me some 9 GB disks


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## stealth (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *
> ...Also, let me know so that I will sent you money in order for you to send me some 9 GB disks    *



hulk is a cheap ass, and hes got green skin. just send them 2 me


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## hulkaros (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *hulk is a cheap ass, and hes got green skin. just send them 2 me  *



Hulkaros smash puny Stealth! Stealth will have no skin after Hulkaros finishes with Stealth... Then Hulkaros will have those GB 9 DVD dark disks!


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

This is straight from apple:
"Before you use this media in any DVD recording device, it is important that your device be up to date. Apple has made it very easy to update your Apple 2x SuperDrive and recommends that all 2x SuperDrive-equipped Macintosh systems be updated. Please visit www.apple.com/hardware/superdrive for more information about updating your Apple SuperDrive. If you plan to use this media in any other DVD recording device, please contact your device manufacturer for an update. Certain DVD-R/RW drives and DVD-R/RW video recorders that have not been updated may not recognize this media and may even be damaged by it. 

A 2x SuperDrive writes to 4x media at 1x, so to obtain the highest performance from your 2x SuperDrive, we recommend that you continue using 2x DVD-R media just as you do today"

Regarding the 4x DVD-R disks... Sounds scary, isn't it?

Some other reasons for me to prefer slower and bigger media and not just fast


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

i just used a 2x DVD-r Media to record at 2speed for the first time. it was nice ... he he he. 
but the damn media was quite more expensive than the 1speed Media!


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## timdorr (Jan 28, 2003)

The apple front page is updated now:



> The SuperDrive reads DVD titles at 6x, and writes to 4.7-gigabyte DVD-R discs at 1x.


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