# The Subnotebook



## fryke (Mar 27, 2005)

This ain't a rumour, this is clearly opinion. 

I've used plenty of notebooks in the past (PB 150, 180, 180c, 520c, 540c, 5300ce, 190, eMate 300, iBook 300, TiBook 500, iBook 12" G3 800, AluBook 15" 1.33, iBook 12" G4 1.2 as well as a Sony VAIO PictureBook and a few other PC notebooks).
I'm a writer as well as a graphics designer and layouter, so my needs vary. For the graphics jobs, I enjoy the 15" PowerBook and find it has the best performance/screen size/mobility ratio. Neither 12" or 17" would do it for me.
As a writer, however, I don't care about processor performance as much, nor do I care about graphics performance or screen size. The eMate 300 with its 25 MHz processor and 6 or 7 inch greyscale (well, greenscale...) display would still do it for me today if exchanging files weren't such a drag.

An iBook mini should be done for my type. I have a "pro" machine (the PowerBook) that serves all my needs but the writing on the way part (too big, too heavy, battery power is sub 8 hours and the display doesn't really 'work' in bright sunlight).

I say... Create an iBook mini. It should have a slightly miniaturised keyboard (not too much, though), a mini trackpad and a widescreen display of no more than 9". Resolution should be 1024*600 or something like that. Page width is an issue here. It should have a transreflective display. They're not very colour accurate, but that doesn't really matter for a writer, does it. The bright side is that in bright sunlight, you can completely turn off the backlighting and actually get a better picture. This way, a LOT of juice can be saved. Those displays are used by a lot of PDAs nowadays.
Power consumption should be a key issue. 8 hours of battery time in average use, but give me 12 hours or more if I turn off the backlighting and only write on a text (harddrive can be completely spinned down in my opinion). I don't even care whether the thing uses Mac OS X or some form of Newton OS derivate. The important thing is that it wirelessly connects to my home Mac via Bluetooth and/or WiFi and that it automatically synchs my documents.

The thing could double as an iPod, of course. For that it'd have to still play sound in closed mode, but that's doable. It could have the external controls of an iPod shuffle on top of the display shell. It could use a 40 or 60 GB iPod drive. Ideally, it'd also have 512 MB of flash memory to which it writes the documents you're working on (harddrive can be spinned down, documents aren't lost when the power goes out...).

If it also sports Mail.app and Safari and can use an iSync compatible phone for accessing the internet via GPRS, it could very well be the perfect PDA, I think.

I'm sure many of you think that the PB or iBook 12" address "enough" needs and that the market for such a device would be "too small". Well: I could care less. This is my opinion and my wish. )


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## Viro (Mar 27, 2005)

This sounds a lot more like a PDA, something in a Psion . I do agree that something like this would be cool, but I don't know if there is enough demand for such a thing for Apple to make one.


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## Gig' (Mar 27, 2005)

Fryke

Only one Word comes to my mind  "Brilliant" 

I love this idea it should be forwarded to whoever is in charge @ Apple unless they thought about it already ;-) ? 

I would be buying one. I was about to get a PB 15" when I ended up getting an iMac G5 (for various reasons)  and a subnotebook will definitely be filingl out the gap between speed and mobility.

So I am definitely your No 2 supporter in the opinion/wish rank


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## HomunQlus (Mar 27, 2005)

The idea itself is pretty brilliant I have to say. However, then there's the side of how possible such a thing is. I think the Mac Mini takes it to the smallest size possible, and the mini is as a nearly full-featured computer extremely portable. Your thing wouldn't be much bigger than the mini, but it has to be thinner than the mini. I don't think that can be done. But for the rest: Brilliant!


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## Convert (Mar 27, 2005)

But tthere wouldn't be a combo drive in this laptop, right?

I remember seeing an 8-10 inch Toshiba laptop which was tiny, it had a 40GB HD and 256 ram, but no CD drive, although it had space for one. Apple could do this.


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## Chimp (Mar 27, 2005)

More on the PDA idea: there is a gadget made especially for writers and students with an 80 character display and full size keyboard.  It's a heavily modified palm PDA, not a very powerful processor (68000) but really long battery life and the option to use AA batteries.  I havn't seen one of these running, but I guess they can use the normal Palm office suites.  Of course if you want something more portable, as mentioned before: the PDA idea - if you choose one with a really large screen that you can use in landscape mode with a fold-out keyboard that allows landscape typing (think the infra-red ones do that).

Oh... almost forgot - the URL is www.alphasmart.com

Anyone with any impressions?  I have been tempted, but am currently happy with my palm and fold-out keyboard.


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## fryke (Mar 29, 2005)

My idea would, of course, be a subnote/bigPDA without an optical drive. (You could still attach an external DVD-Rewriter via USB-2 or FW...)

The Alphasmart thingie (was called Dana once, iirc) has never been widely available, i.e. with Swiss German keyboard support etc., but I think it'd almost be enough for me.

However: I think Apple could do much better than those slow Palm OS clones... And also better than other people's subnotebooks, which usually lack in the battery department (2 hours of juice just ain't enough, neither are 5h...).


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## Ceroc Addict (Mar 29, 2005)

Love the idea of an Apple notebook smaller than the 12" PB. I previously owned a Sony VAIO which was extremely portable and had a _19 hour_ battery.

The only problems were the slow (Crusoe) processor and Windows ME. If it had had a G4 (or even a G3) and OS X it would have been perfect.

Kap


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## fryke (Mar 30, 2005)

The Crusoe models did have about 5 hours of battery life. If you got 19 out of it, you've been using at least one of the extended batteries that made the model much bigger.  ... But yes, Kind of what I meant. Only the trackpad would be a must for me.


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## Ceroc Addict (Mar 30, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> The Crusoe models did have about 5 hours of battery life. If you got 19 out of it, you've been using at least one of the extended batteries that made the model much bigger.  ... But yes, Kind of what I meant. Only the trackpad would be a must for me.


If Apple had made it, it would have come with BT built in and I'd have gotten a BT mouse. 

Kap


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## fryke (Mar 31, 2005)

Yes, but a BT mouse isn't that good on, say, the sand of a beach.  ... I think the internal pointing device for such a subnotebook should still be a trackpad. Smaller than the PB's and iBook's, though.


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## Ceroc Addict (Mar 31, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yes, but a BT mouse isn't that good on, say, the sand of a beach


BT/USB trackball then  (that'd be my preference)

I was in a computer/electronics store yesterday that had Apple and non-Apple gear in the same section.

I have to say the 12" PB looks out of date compared to a 10" with TFT display. 

Kap

P.S. The 15" PB still kicks ass though.


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## Viro (Apr 1, 2005)

They need to update the displays to have this new 'X-Black' technology. Laptops from Sony with this technology have absolutely gorgeous displays.


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## Ceroc Addict (Apr 1, 2005)

Btw - I'm starting to think Apple really _should_ leave out the optical drive (maybe add an extra FW port) and reduce the price (and weight) of a 10" PB by that margin.

There are perfectly good, cheap, multiple format, external DVD burners out now that are faster than the built in Superdrives in Powerbooks.



			
				Viro said:
			
		

> They need to update the displays to have this new 'X-Black' technology. Laptops from Sony with this technology have absolutely gorgeous displays.


Absolutely.



			
				fryke said:
			
		

> Yes, but a BT mouse isn't that good on, say, the sand of a beach.  ...


Hold on - don't you live in Switzerland? 

Kap


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## fryke (Apr 1, 2005)

Those X-Black displays GLARE. And that's a bad thing, btw.  ... And yeah, I'm in Switzerland. But theoretically I could take such a subnotebook with me when I go to a beach, right? But neither do those mice work well on grass, or in the train on knees, or, well: Many surfaces you come across when actually using a subnotebook on the road.


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## Viro (Apr 1, 2005)

If you were sitting by the beach, the last thing you want to have on lap or in your hands is your laptop. .

I've never used those X-Black displays, only seen them in shops. But they do look beautiful. Like a CRT.


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## Ceroc Addict (Apr 1, 2005)

I live in Australia - beaches everywhere. Trust me, you're _never_ going to use a PB on the beach, because:





Sand and direct sunlight
Beautiful girls in bikinis will point at you and laugh
Somebody will feel compelled to roll you and steal your PB
You can't go into the water, because the less violent thieves will just be biding their time to steal your PB
 

Kap

P.S. Also, trying to sit on the ground at all and use a laptop isn't the most comfortable thing in the world. Better to stick to using your PB seated in cafes with wireless hotspots.


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## fryke (Apr 1, 2005)

Okay, okay.  ... You _may_ use your BT mouses with my vision of a subnotebook.  ... I love to write in Cafés, btw., and there, too, I think a mouse would only get in my way. So I still prefer a smaller trackpad...


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## TangentIdea (Apr 11, 2005)

My perfect "subnotebook" would be like the PADD's on Star Trek. Make it an all-in-one device; minimal moving parts. No flip-open screen. Just a tablet. Make the screen touch-sensitive, and create a program like Key Caps that allows the user to type directly on the screen, or write notes to text or images using any object, not just a stylus. It would be almost entirely encapsulated in polycarbonate, so to clean it all the user would have to do is wipe it off. It would have no additional ports at all; it would come standard with BlueTooth and Airport. Perhaps it could involve a wireless "dock" (similar to AirPort Express) to interface with Ethernet, USB, FireWire, and video output devices if necessary. A microphone and videocamera would be embedded in the device, for use with speech recognition and iChat. So, if you can't find your iPad, just call for it, and it'll beep so you can find it. Perhaps it could also contain a GPS unit, so it can function as your navigator in the car. Operation would be completely hands-free; it would read directions to you as you asked for them, or as it realized where you were.

Perhaps a built-in emergency transporter and replicator could be included. I'm sure those would come in handy. Need a cup of coffee? Just ask...


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## fryke (Apr 14, 2005)

Hmm... I was talking 2005/2006, not 2020-2250.


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## chornbe (Apr 14, 2005)

PADD idea with text-to-speech and speech-to-text is a good idea. In short - completely do-able today. All the technology is in place. The target $500 might be hard to do, tho'


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## Lt Major Burns (Apr 14, 2005)

there's a lovelly little vaio at the moment, i mentioned before - 10" screen - very dinky. reduced size keyboard, but really not by much at all. still very functional. better screen res than a 15"pBook. overall - you could still make it smaller - remove the optical drive, make the screen smaller, but with the same ppi, say 1024x700. my g5 tower isnt very portable . i could be tampted, if it was about £800


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## fryke (Apr 15, 2005)

The problem with those is that they're running Windows XP Pro. And while you _can_ install linux on them, I hear that drivers for the special hardware are harder to come by... Friend of mine has one, had to actually _buy_ a driver for the WiFi card etc. And: It's just no Mac, even when running linux with a decent Gnome installation.  But they _are_ tempting, aren't they... Makes me wish they could run Mac OS X for Intel. But I'd rather see Apple make a subnotebook. Hence the thread - and hence the VAIOs don't answer my prayers...


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## Lt Major Burns (Apr 15, 2005)

the fact they are running windows and are made by sony just shows that the hardware is there for apple to utilise, but that they need to exercise their magic on it. imagine the vaio's size, and level of technology, but apple taking it one step further to replce the 12" pb. which at the moment, is shite. the vaio is just a very good example of innovation hampered by wintel domination


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## fryke (Apr 18, 2005)

*nod*. can only agree.


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## chornbe (Apr 18, 2005)

Lt Major Burns said:
			
		

> the fact they are running windows and are made by sony just shows that the hardware is there for apple to utilise, but that they need to exercise their magic on it. imagine the vaio's size, and level of technology, but apple taking it one step further to replce the 12" pb. which at the moment, is shite. the vaio is just a very good example of innovation hampered by wintel domination



I think I disagree. Innovation and commercial viability are almost never a guaranteed sure thing. Sony, Apple and Microsoft are all in biz to make money.

Sony is providing a hardware platform.

If Microsoft _OR_ Apple were in a position and of a mind to innovate, either one step up. Obviously, neither is. You can *not* discount Apple's cool products, shiny interface and user-friendly nature. You can *not* discount Microsoft's *apparent* dominance in the market place. 

If Apple wanted to innovate and thought the mini Viao was viable, they would spend some time compiling and tweaking their OS core to run on Intel. If Sony thought there was a market, they would build a PPC version of the system. If Microsoft thought there was a market, they would licensce Darwin (or some ther open source OS) and get with Apple to make it happen.

Can we all just step back from the Apple/Wintel wars for just a sec and remember something... it was the consumers who made Windows what it is today. It's not like Gates woke up one morning and said, "Today is the day I take over the world" and *poof* there it was. Remember, Windows went thru' many, many revisions and releases before it found the market viability that Apple, NeXT, Unix and many others never really did.

And looking around at the the computer landscape you can see it's been an excercise in evolution for far, far longer than in revolution (or innovation).

I think we've reached "maintenance mode" in the current computing model. The next big innovation will be in *true* universal voice recognition and/or 3d interfacing and perhaps visual gesture recognition (a la Minority Report). Separation of the visual interface (GUI) and gearing processing more towards universal interfacing (GUI, Voice, Gestures, ...) is the next logical step.

$.02


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## Lt Major Burns (Apr 18, 2005)

you misunderstand!

the vaio shouldn't run macos. ever. it's just not an apple mac! it's technically very good, way ahead on the gadgetery, but the aesthetics let it down - it's just not very ergonomic - the powerbooks at the moment look so clean, because it was an ethic to keep it clean - no doors, flaps, or hooks to catch on something. the bottom is perfectly smooth, as is the top.

what i was saying was not a mac/xp war, just that the technology of the pBooks market rivals is leaving them for dust - when the g4 powerbooks came out, they were revolutionary! noone had seen any laptop this thin or small, so smooth and just very high quality. full of the latest technology and designed with everything in mind.  even more so with the g3 powerbook (wallstreets?).  sh*t, that was so revolutionary, intel laptops were copying the design almost shamelessly for about 6/7 years!

and now, the powerbooks look tired. a design that's been out longer than any other apple hardware at the moment.  the technology is there to be innovative again, in the way apple is known so well for, they just need to unleash the new powerbooks.  that vaio i used just as an example of what the rivals are doing, and that it's making the pbooks look stupid.  i want a laptop, but i'll be damned if i buy a current powerbook.... too expensive for a 5 year old laptop.

http://www.macintouch.com/pbg4review.html


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## fryke (Apr 24, 2005)

I think you're deep inside that reality distortion field. Nobody copied the PB G3's design, really.

On the other hand: I don't think the PB's design (the Alubooks) feels old. What I'm talking about, what this thread is about, is that I'd want Apple to do a subnotebook.


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## RacerX (Apr 24, 2005)

Apple didn't even copy the PowerBook G3... the design was bad for business.

Take my PowerBook (Wallstreet) as an example. It takes almost no time at all for me to replace RAM and the hard drive, I was able to add a second hard drive and replaced the CD-ROM expansion bay module with a CD-RW one. Add on top of that, the processor was a daughter card that could be replaced whole with a newer processor (a G4/500 in my case).

I'll tell you, Apple isn't sitting back looking at someone like me who is still using a system from September 1998 with any form of pride... they are looking at me as lost revenue. Which they should... I would have bought a new system long ago had I not been able to nurse this one as long as I have.

And I think Apple realized this early on with the PowerBook G3s, which was why they took the iBook design in a completely different direction (as in almost completely unserviceable by the end user). That move didn't hurt Apple, in fact it helped. When a hard drive on a iBook or PowerBook G4 isn't large enough any more, people sell their old systems and buy new ones. Why, because it is less expensive (and less trouble) to just move to a new system.


As for the need for a subnotebook... yeah, I sort of see it (though to a degree I think both the 12" PowerBooks and iBooks serve this area). 

I was in need for a small computer for school a few months ago. As I'm not rolling in cash, I looked closely at my needs and ended up with a PowerBook Duo 2300c (about $90US for both the PowerBook and maxing out the RAM). With an old system like that I was able to get older (but still very functional) software for my needs (Mathematica for $50US and Theorist for $35US) along with a ton of software I already had.

I have no idea what you guys were thinking a new subnotebook would run, but if I had to buy the current versions of my math software (Mathematica would have run me $1800US and LiveMath, aka Theorist, $300US) it would have been out of the question.

I was thinking about a 2400c, but the fact that I could have installed Rhapsody on it would have been too much of a distraction from my school work. I realized this was a problem with both my PowerBook G3 (Mac OS X) and ThinkPad (Rhapsody/OPENSTEP), which is why I needed a system that could keep me on task... which the 2300c (Mac OS 8.6) does quite nicely.


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## fryke (Apr 26, 2005)

Well: Specific purposes aside, I'm thinking that the subnotebook should cater to the widest audience possible. So it _should_ run everything. Of course its size and screen resolution might limit its use for highend graphics and video (unless you attach another display at work, for example).

MY personal need is a veeeeery little typewriter.


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## Ceroc Addict (Apr 26, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> MY personal need is a veeeeery little typewriter.


Same with me, except I'd prefer a typewriter so tiny that I could keep it in my pocket with me all the time (and it'd be great if it could play MPEG4 video as well ).

i.e. Really a Newton II with a built in thumboard (and a full size keyboard accessory), rather than a 10" PB, but I'll take anything I can get. 

Kap


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## chornbe (Apr 26, 2005)

hmm... I'm picturing a device (geared towards writers/editors/etc) that is an unfoldable keyboard (a la the Palm external keyboard) that has a very small lcd screen for a few lines of text and has media slots for the modern media cards (compact flash, mem stick, SD, etc). That should work out to be a $99 device at the absolute most.


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## Ceroc Addict (Apr 26, 2005)

chornbe said:
			
		

> hmm... I'm picturing a device (geared towards writers/editors/etc) that is an unfoldable keyboard (a la the Palm external keyboard) that has a very small lcd screen for a few lines of text and has media slots for the modern media cards (compact flash, mem stick, SD, etc). That should work out to be a $99 device at the absolute most.


I've pictured this device as well (minus the card slots - I figured it would just have built in memory and sync to a computer directly via USB).

Unfortunately, AlphaSmart  doesn't quite agree with our pricing.  

Kap

P.S. However, I later decided that I would prefer more of a PDA like size with thumboard and the option of a keyboard attachment - very difficult to use a keyboard while lying down in bed or at the beach.


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## fryke (Dec 28, 2010)

I know I'm reviving a *very* old thread... Just wanted to thank Apple here. More than five years after my wish (well, the wish was certainly older, but this was _the_ thread about it), Apple produced the 11" MacBook Air, which finally was really small enough for me. Not quite the 10h battery life, but I can live with that for now.


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