# Cocoa programming for morons...



## johnnyutah2k1 (Jul 21, 2003)

That moron would be me!

Can you recommend any Cocoa programming books that don't presume that you've previously coded in C? I've done a bit of Basic and Delphi on the PC, so I have a basic knowledge of the fundamentals (variables etc.) but I'm completely knew to C.

Also, is Real Basic any good? You have to pay quite a bit for it compared to Developer Tools, which is free.

Finally, is it worth waiting for Xcode to be released with Panther before starting to learn. Will it be significantly different to the current Developer Tools?


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## kainjow (Jul 23, 2003)

Don't go to REALbasic. Go to amazon.com and search for Cocoa any book you choose will be fine. Xcode isn't much different from Project Builder from what I've seen (it is different, but not like going from Linux to Palm OS hehe).


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## SkyNite (Jul 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kainjow _
> *Don't go to REALbasic. *


I respectfully disagree. I have seen lots o' crap written in REALbasic, but I have also seen some excellent apps come from it. It's also cool when you need to whip up a quick tool to do specific job.

And I am somewhat biased, since I have been making a living off of a couple of REALbasic-coded apps for a couple of years now.

Let the flaming begin!


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## wiz (Jul 23, 2003)

naa i agree. don't go for real basic.. i'f u know how to use NIB files.. developing apps is just as fast using cocoa (java/objective-c). u can also use the nib files with carbon.. but then carbon is written in c++.. that's not RAD at all.


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## tjw (Jul 23, 2003)

These are the books I bought that have been indispensable:

"Cocoa with Objective-C" James Duncan Davidson & Apple.

"Building Cocoa Applications: A Step-by Step Guide" Simson Garfinkel & Michael K. Mahoney

both are published by O'Reilly

For C reference:
"The C Programming Language" 2nd edition Brian W. Kernighan & Dennis M. Ritchie

"The Standard C Library" P.J. Plauger


Also, don't forget to download "Cocoa Browser" from Versiontracker.com You'll use it a LOT as reference when you first start.

Good Luck!


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## Arden (Jul 23, 2003)

Don't get REAL Basic if you want to do Cocoa programming, because it's an excellent *BASIC* editor.

The dev. tools have a number of tutorials, as well, that teach you the basics.


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## johnnyutah2k1 (Jul 24, 2003)

That's really helpful - thanks guys. Although there are some very good apps for the Mac, there are very few in comparison to the software available for Windows. I'll look at the books mentioned and try and contribute something to the Mac community!


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## wiz (Jul 24, 2003)

well... thats not completely true..

just install fink 

oh and eh.. have u checked out versiontracker.com ?


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## Ripcord (Jul 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SkyNite _
> *And I am somewhat biased, since I have been making a living off of a couple of REALbasic-coded apps for a couple of years now.*



Really?  Just curious - which apps?

I've been interested in RealBasic lately for its RAD features and cross-platform compatibility.

I've written several small, simple apps that I've built for use at work on Windows machines.

We use several apps at work that are completely cross-platform, but one of the things preventing me from using Mac more  is the fact that my apps won't run on it.

I could re-write the apps, but they absolutely need to run in Windows as well.  I'm not a programmer professionally, I just write some tools to make my and my coworkers, lives easier.  I'm not terribly demanding from my programming language, I just need to write a series of simple GUI apps, and FAST.

RealBasic seems perfect for this.  It seems powerful enough to do my GUI stuff (front-ends for command-line utilities, some simple processing stuff), but should require almost no work to make the programs run on either platform (which saves me TIME - the whole point of building the apps in the first place).

I'm especially intrigued about Real Software's announcement of supporting compiling for Linux - which might also make the choice easier for those at work that want to run Linux workstations, as well...


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## wiz (Jul 26, 2003)

Ripcord, have u considered using Perl/Python with Tk.. its a lot more RAD then RealBasic. And hell a lot more portable


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## Ripcord (Jul 26, 2003)

I've researched this evening, something tells me that I'd be less productive with Tcl/Tk.  

I don't like Perl for many of the reasons that I don't like C/C++, though I like Python to some extent.

Tcl/Tk seems very powerful, and certainly very portable.  However, while may be more RAD than working with, say, GTK+ or QT, I have a tough time believing it's as RAD as RealBasic (or Java+Swing, for that matter).  It still seems REALLY nerdy...

Thanks for the pointer - perhaps if I find that RealBasic won't do what I'm looking for, I'll switch to Tcl/Tk.

(I'd initially done some of my work in C#, under the hope that .Net framework would be ported to other platforms and I'd eventually be able to port my programs with little effort, but the speed of development of projects like Mono, especially emulating Windows.Forms, just isn't encouraging.  That and the fact that I don't trust M$ worth !@#$ mean that I'm ready to jump ship...)


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## Arden (Jul 26, 2003)

Every time I try to get into programming, I have a hard time picking up even the basics.  I really wish I could learn to program, but I seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, in the visual and auditory production part.


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## SkyNite (Jul 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ripcord _
> *Really?  Just curious - which apps? *


My main public offering is ScopeDriver, although I have a couple of popular freeware utils out there, too (UTC Display and DarkAdapted).

Plus, I create custom software solutions for regional businesses, depending on what they need.

REALbasic has worked well for that, and -- from what I can see -- lots of people are doing well in similar pursuits.

But *lots* of programmers and other observers will take pot shots at you for using RB. There's a really vocal anti-RB faction out there, which I believe is unjustified, but is a reality nonetheless.


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## Arden (Jul 27, 2003)

If any of them use Windows, feel free to snipe right back.


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## malexgreen (Jul 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SkyNite _
> *I respectfully disagree. I have seen lots o' crap written in REALbasic, but I have also seen some excellent apps come from it. It's also cool when you need to whip up a quick tool to do specific job.
> 
> And I am somewhat biased, since I have been making a living off of a couple of REALbasic-coded apps for a couple of years now.
> ...



Just wondering SkyNite: Are you a software programming consultant? Do you specialize in setting up apps for Macs? If so, how did you get into the business? What classes did you take, what's your degree, what certifications do you have?  

I'm interested in doing this kind of thing. Thanks.


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## SkyNite (Jul 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by malexgreen _
> *Just wondering SkyNite: Are you a software programming consultant? Do you specialize in setting up apps for Macs? If so, how did you get into the business? What classes did you take, what's your degree, what certifications do you have? *



My degree is in English, believe it or not.  There were no personal computers as we know them when I graduated from college in 1983. 

I found that -- once I got my foot in the door -- that reputation and referrals were more important than degrees or certifications. YMMV.

I used to be a network admin. for a small office building. I got the job when the old admin. moved away. Then I wrote some programs that solved some problems for them, and for some of their friends, and it took off from there.

REALbasic is cool for stuff like that because you can put something together quickly to address an immediate need.


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