# RE: 2 MacWorld Java Contradictions...



## TommyWillB (Jan 11, 2002)

I am a HTML (plus coldFusion & beginner ASP) Web developer. Since getting Mac OS X (back in the public beta) I have decided that I want to move my skills to the next level, and my first thoughts naturally are PHP/mySQL and/or Java.

So far I've only proceeded to the step of configuring my machine so that it can do Perl, PHP, mySQL, Tomcat JSP & Servlets.

I just went to the MacWorld "Mac OS X Web Publishing" and"Mac OS X Programming in Java" pro conferences, thinking these might inspire me to dig more deeply into one thing or another.

The thing is both of these courses focused primarily on Java, but the first was Web Object centric and the latter was a pure Java guy. Some of their comments were in direct contridiction. 

For exapmple one suggested using both ProjectBuilder and all of the great WO and Java Swing extensions that Apple provides. The other said, No stick to pure Jave and pure Java IDE's.

Now I  REALLY don't want to incite any sort of religious war, but instead I'm looking for some suggestions on how you would reccomend a non-computer science type should begin playing with Java on OS X?


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## jnikolai (Jan 11, 2002)

I can understand your confusion and frustration. WebObjects, not having used it myself and just reading the marketing material, is a J2EE complient application server. BUT with a lot of "cool" features that will distinguish it from other application servers out there. This is where Sun's push for J2EE complient servers breaks down. If you start using a feature that are NOT a part of Sun's specification, you run the risk of not being able to port your code to another application server. This may or may not be a big deal if you are just learning the ropes.

My suggestion to you is start simple. All you need to get started is Apache and Tomcat servers. This will let you write Servelt and JSP pages. When you want to start fiddling with EJB's and JDBC connections, that is when you should start looking at WebObjects. Of course if you don't want to buy WebObjects, there are open source application servers out there, JBoss being an example. Of course I have no idea if JBoss will run on OS X but being pure Java you think it would.  

As for an IDE, that is really a user preference. JBuilder is what we have used and is a pure Java IDE and free for non-commercial use. I think project builder would work just as well. For those die hard linux/unix people vi or emacs does the trick. I suggest you fiddle with IDE's and see what you are most comfortable using. There are tons out there...

I hope this helps!
Bring on the flames!  

 - John


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## iconara (Jan 12, 2002)

There is only one thing that counts: 100% Pure Java. There is no other way. If you use Java, then use pure Java. That is the whole point of it. Let's not do it like M$, let's not make Java into something that it shouldn't be. Let's keep to the original thought. Yes, it's a bit reactionary, but, well, it is.

Java is a wonderful language, but once it goes from the platform-independency-idea to the platform-dependent, it looses it's charms.

Use Java, use Swing. But NOT Apple's, M$ or anyone else's extensions to it, if they not too are platform-independent.

That is what I think count. If you are going to make money out of it, do whatever you like, just do it good.

Theo


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