# 10.2 prices



## deagle five o (Jun 11, 2002)

ive been out of the loop for a few weeks, does anyone know what the prices on 10.2 will be, and if there's more light on the release date of Jaguar.


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## benpoole (Jun 11, 2002)

Nothing concrete, no. "Late summer" appears to mean August / September for release (there's also some discussion as to whether 10.1.6 will see the light of day between now and then).

There's also been chat about pricing. I'm assuming that as 10.2 constitutes a major release (i.e. like 10.1) it will be charged-for in a similar price bracket to 10.1... that is, not full OS price, but won't be on the software updater either.

Then again, it's going to have a lot of new stuff in it, so maybe the upgrade price will be significantly more than a CD and its shipping?

So who knows. I can't wait though: 10.2 will be my first go with OS X!


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## roger (Jun 11, 2002)

> So who knows. I can't wait though: 10.2 will be my first go with OS X!


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## benpoole (Jun 11, 2002)

Yeah, shocking innit?



I have an old iMac, so have shied away from upgrading my OS... but I figured I would now, seeing as OS X seems to be getting more and more optimised. And there's no point buying 10.1.5 now is there, not with 10.2 round the corner? If I've waited this long...


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## homer (Jun 11, 2002)

Your iMac can be older than mine by only a couple of months at most.  10.1.x is perfectly usable on my 233 iMac (in contrast to 10.0.x). I wouldn't want to do anything CPU-intensive on it, but it works.  but yes, if I were you, I'd wait until Jag-wire too.


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## benpoole (Jun 11, 2002)

Thanks homer -- you've reassured me before on this point too!

I have a rev B iMmac, which means I have 233 MHz too, plus 6MB VRAM, 256MB RAM and the bog-standard HDD... so I'll maybe look into upgrading that. I'm not scared of taking the lid off this sucker -- I did _both_ RAM slots!

<Exits looking mighy proud>


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## homer (Jun 11, 2002)

Oh whoops, I forget who I boast to about my iMac.   

I nearly had a bad experience installing RAM in the lower slot.  I had a horrendous time pulling the processor card off, and then I didn't get it seated properly when I was putting it back together.  Guess what?  It didn't boot.   Then I just pushed on the card until I thought it would break, and it didn't.  Whew!  I swore then that I'd never pull the processor card off again (on that machine).


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## Nummi_G4 (Jun 11, 2002)

So do you guys think 10.2 will be $20.  like 10.1 ?  Or do you think Apple will try to squeze more money out of us?


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## benpoole (Jun 11, 2002)

I imagine it might be more given the new technologies debuting plus the QT6 thang... but then again, maybe Apple will absorb the cost in the interest of getting the OS out to more and more people? They have enough cash in the bank after all... Will be interesting to see.

Either way I'm stumping up for the whole thing I guess, so less of an issue to me.


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2002)

Okay, I give up. This is like the tenth discussion on this board about the price of Jaguar, which will either be called 10.2 or 10.5. It will be priced what Apple chooses to charge. Opinions vary between 'free' (reason being that 10.1 was free) and 'full' (reason being that 10.1 was an exception and Jaguar will be a fully normal release like before 10.0).


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## RyanLang (Jun 11, 2002)

I am curious as to why people think it will be called 10.5.  If OS 9 went up to 9.2.2, why wouldn't OS X go from 10.1.5/6 to 10.2? Might I be missing something ?


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## simX (Jun 11, 2002)

Because historically Apple has jumped to an x.5 or x.0 version number for major releases:

Mac OS 8 (full-price), Mac OS 8.1, Mac OS 8.5 (full price), Mac OS 8.5.1, Mac OS 8.6, Mac OS 9 (full price), Mac OS 9.x.x

The thing is, this is Mac OS X, so Apple could be changing its version number system.  We'll just have to see what Apple does in this instance, but since this is a major upgrade, bank on it being full-priced.


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## terran74 (Jun 11, 2002)

HEY!  I am the one who uses that analogy 

Yeah he's correct.  Almost always we saw 8.1 -> 8.1 and the dev seed for 8.5 was 8.2 until it shipped.  all .0's and .5's were full shrinkwrapped.

There has never been a .2 except for 9.2 and that is only because it was a dead product.

This will probably be $129 10.5 release.  I don't even call it 10.2 anymore because I know it will be a 10.5

Apple can't afford to release a 10.2 for free because they need to make money and 10.0 came out in March of 2001.  If they released all these features now then what could they honestly release in March 2003 that we'd pay for?  I think they are right on schedule for some revenue.

Personally I would like to see it as a $99 upgrade, but it will more than likely be a $129 one.


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## thedbp (Jun 12, 2002)

But I plan on buying the full boxed version of 10.2 even though I already have a full 10.1 CD.

I'd much rather do a freshy install of 10.2 rather than 10.1 --> 10.2 updates, and besides, its going to come with a swank new booklet, the latest greatest OS 9, and the new dev tools.  Plus, it supports Apple.

And I think they'll probably figure out a way to avoid the "update CD to full install CD" fiasco that happened with the 10.1 update CD.

From what I have seen, 10.2 will be worth the full price of the OS, no doubt.  And the other reason, of course, is so that I can have two licenses for the OS so I don't have to feel guilty installing the same licensed copy on both my Macs that can handle OS X.

So I'd like to start a movement - I know a lot of us are financially challenged (myself included) and would rather pay 20 bucks for an upgrade CD, but I ask you - don't you think the Apple would use the extra money wisely?  I do.  So anyone who can swing it, buy the full OS package instead of the upgrade.  Support the new OS, give Apple some $ for all the amazing thigns they've been working on, and try to realize that Mac OS X came out in public beta form 2 years ago.  Its definitely time to buy another boxed copy of the full OS.

And no, I don't work for Apple.

Yet 

I'm still waiting to hear back the results of my FOURTH interview for a Mac Genius position ....


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## fryke (Jun 12, 2002)

Go! Yes. Let's pay the full price. 

It's what I did with Mac OS 8.0. I mean, I HAD the Golden Master already, and I *knew* I was going to buy a new machine with a copy of it bundled, but I went out and bought Mac OS 8 the day it arrived in the stores. It's a fun experience, I think.

Also, the last full version I bought was 10.0, so I didn't really give Apple much money ever since I bought the TiBook 500. And that'll be 1.5 years old by Jaguar.


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## benpoole (Jun 12, 2002)

Agreed. I've never actually bought an OS from Apple, so it'll be fun. Can't wait to try out X.

I got OS 8.5 with my iMac, and I downloaded the updater for 8.6.1... so no dice there.

And I think I ended up with a dodgy copy of System 7.1 for my Classic. 

It's about time. Besides, I'm always a bit leery about layering update on to update... Look what "service packs" do for Windoze


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## Koelling (Jun 12, 2002)

I am thinking it will be a full priced upgrade. If it isn't, I'm just going to pay for the upgrade and then get the full disks with my new computer. I fully support you thinking you need a license for each computer but I am not going to blindly pay money, even to my favorite company. I think it would be more supportive to Apple if you used that cash to pay some shareware fees so developers are more likely to keep making great software. (Ha! how talented am I? I used this thread which is repeated 14 other times to bring up shareware which is repeated 38 times elsewhere  )

And to throw in my 2 cents about processor speed, I'm using a 266 Blueberry iMac (I thought rev B was the colors not still 233?) and I do many processor intensive things. Video and 3d games are really not doable even though the last 0.0.1 release supposedly supported my video card. I didn't really notice any difference. But I have lots of programs running and I am perfectly productive as a student. I think you'll like the upgrade but I'm not sure how much more optimized X.2 will be unless you have some Quartz Extreme support. Let us know what you think.


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## benpoole (Jun 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Koelling _
> *And to throw in my 2 cents about processor speed, I'm using a 266 Blueberry iMac (I thought rev B was the colors not still 233?) and I do many processor intensive things. Video and 3d games are really not doable even though the last 0.0.1 release supposedly supported my video card. I didn't really notice any difference. But I have lots of programs running and I am perfectly productive as a student. I think you'll like the upgrade but I'm not sure how much more optimized X.2 will be unless you have some Quartz Extreme support. Let us know what you think. *


Cool. thanks for that! The only difference between rev A and rev B iMacs (both are Bondi) is bigger VRAM and hard disk capacity. The processor speed is the same.


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## terran74 (Jun 12, 2002)

This is going to be an upgrade, not an update.  

We can want free upgrades all we want but it won't happen unless you buy a new system  30 days prior to an upgrade.

10.1 was a free update.  It was a huge update because there was so much that had been done under the hood.


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## Gregita (Jun 12, 2002)

Let's hope that it is not the same price that 10.1.3 is right now in the stores.

If so, I better start saving up now. 

I doubt it will be $129.00, though.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.


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## thedbp (Jun 14, 2002)

This is sort of unrelated, but if anyone out there has an iMac that is still using 2MB of VRAM, then you NEED TO UPGRADE.

I just plunked in a 4MB upgrade to my stock RagePro chip in my beige G3.  I thought it would help a little, just a little, but i had NO IDEA it would help as much as it has.  I mean, it is just SICK how much it helps.  Especially considering how cheap it is.

$25 from OWC, shipping included.  http://eshop.macsales.com

Unreal Tourny actually looks GOOD instead of just "playable" now!!!!  screen refresh is sooooo much better.  Haven't put X on yet, i'm waiting for 10.2 for that.  But the performance under 9 is VASTLY improved.

Buy it!


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## fryke (Jun 14, 2002)

this is not 'sort of' but completely unrelated, my dear. 

Back on topic: Please accept that it will be a *normal*, and thus *payable* *full* *upgrade* to the Mac OS. Wishful thinking is just that: Wishful thinking. I guess Apple made a big mistake when they released 10.1 for free, now. 

What will you do if you *won't* see the following at MWNY?



> For all buyers of a G4 in the last two years:
> 
> - Free PowerMacintosh G5 @ 2GHz
> - Jaguar included
> ...



Get over it already, puh-leeeese!

Jaguar in stores: 129$. Think this way, if it's GONNA be cheaper, you'll be happier if you accept the normal price. Common Sense really seems to be a rare item these days.


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## gibbs (Jun 15, 2002)

well. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say this...

If I pay 130 bucks for x.2 and it isnt all that and a bag of chips, I am going to be sorely dissapointed. 

I dont think many people here will mind filling apple's pockets with a little extra cash. We just dont want to be let down, or feel as though you could have saved the dough and stuck with 10.1.x and still not noticed that big of a difference.

-end rant


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## fryke (Jun 15, 2002)

Believe me, there IS that kind of difference. Much more than say the jump from 8.6 to 9.0. More the kind of like 8.1 to 8.5 was. Try to remember (if you were there) how 8.5 felt to 8.1. I think it's a bit like that. The system feels smoother... Plus, there's a ton of new features, which you've already heard about.


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## Inline_guy (Jun 15, 2002)

Why didn't  I have to pay for my upgrade in OS X?  I bought it May.  And it auto updated for free.  Maybe I am missing something....  I love OS X though.  I love my mac way more than my (now de-funked) windows machine.

I have a question.  I hear that iBooks and iMacs are "consumer line."  Does that mean that they are not powerful enough to do major things.  I have a flat screen iMac with the superdrive.  Will I be able to squeeze some great things out of it?

Matthew

:: http://inlineguy.com ::


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## benpoole (Jun 15, 2002)

Heheheheh, there's that fryke again, banging on about "Common Sense" (TM)

Have you seen his website?


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## fryke (Jun 15, 2002)

benpoole: don't take me too seriously in everything. 

but, of course, i'm right.


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## edX (Jun 15, 2002)

well i've decided that fryke should pay $129 even if it is less. he seems so adament that it _should_ cost that much.  

(how many shares of apple do you own fryke? )


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## fryke (Jun 15, 2002)

none, Ed, and I'm not proud of it. 

Hmm... I might consider buying two licenses if they ARE in fact cheaper. 

I'm just imagining the boo-ing of Steve if he comes up on stage at MWNY and announces the following 'big' news:

1) All iMacs (same machine as before) now ship with iMovie 3 preloaded.

2) The iBook SE is announced. 14" screen, 800 MHz G3, 200$ more expensive and just a new choice, all other models stay the same.

3) The all new PowerMacintosh G4 ("2-Bays") can now hold two harddisks *and* an optical drive. Speeds available: 933 MHz, 1.13 GHz and Dual Processor 1.2 GHz.

4) The PowerBook G4 DVI now includes a Bluetooth USB adaptor.

5) Jaguar will ship 'at the end of summer' at a retail price of 129$.

Oh, and one more thing:

6) Titanium Pod 15 GB for 999$, you now have the choice between three MP3 players from Apple. And the new 'TiPod' goes well with the TiBooks, although Bluetooth isn't a feature of the TiPod, though maybe someone could make a Firewire/BT bridge.

Wow, what a show that'd be, right? Wouldn't we all be happy again?


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## fryke (Jun 15, 2002)

just noticed how 'TiPod' sounds a bit like 'teapot'.


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## Koelling (Jun 16, 2002)

> Why didn't I have to pay for my upgrade in OS X? I bought it May. And it auto updated for free. Maybe I am missing something....


 I didn't want your question to go unanswered. You're updates are the little 0.0.1 releases which have new features and drivers but are not the "major releases" which we are talking about. If you got it in May you probably got X.1 on it (or maybe X.1.3 or 4) and then it updated to X.1.5.  

If you got it a year ago in May, then it came with X. when X.1 came out could be upgraded for free if you lived near a certified apple resale store or for the price of shipping if not. That was X.1 and was in my opinion a major release but we got it for free. X.2 will cost money because they can't afford to give away this great software for free.

I feel like I over explained that yet I'm not sure if I got the point across. It's too late and I need sleep. I hope it's clear, if not private message me.


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## Urbansory (Jun 16, 2002)

Well if i have to pay I'll feel very ripped off. I purchased 10.1.3 for my first go at Mac OS X, and I hope they won't try to squeeze more out of me. I didn't pay full price, due to the student discount at my college, but still, I think a low price of $20 sounds cool. That would give me a reason to drive from Clveland to the Columbus, OH Apple store to pick up my CD. The last time I was here i complained about X, I use it more and more everyday.


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## Inline_guy (Jun 16, 2002)

Koelling


Thanks man. You explained it.  I got it this May (late May to be exact).  I am a very recent Mac convert so I am still learning.  

Thanks again.


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## fryke (Jun 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Urbansory _
> *I purchased 10.1.3 for my first go at Mac OS X, and I hope they won't try to squeeze more out of me.*



They won't! You can use Mac OS X 10.1.x for as long as you want, as you bought a license to use it.

But 'Jaguar' is a major upgrade to the operating system, very much like Windows XP is, for example, to Windows 2000. The basis of the operating system is still the same, but there are a lot of new features, the system is more stable, faster and gives you the opportunity to do more (and more efficiently so) with your computer. Thus, the upgrade will cost you money, if you want it.

Basically, you also have the option to live with Mac OS X 10.1.x as long as your computer lives. It is a great computer with a great operating system and should do the tasks well that you do on it.

Apple usually doesn't charge for updates to operating systems. They're more like the 'service packs' in the Windows world. They charge, however, for full upgrades. Jaguar is one of these.


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## Urbansory (Jun 17, 2002)

Well i might wait till i get my Ti, or iBook with Jaguar installed. Or I could do the college student rate of $76 AGAIN, no big difference, considering how much my school cost, IT SHOULD BE FREE!


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## serpicolugnut (Jun 18, 2002)

Really, you are kidding yourselves if you think Apple will release 10.2 (or 10.5 as it will probably be called) for anything less than $99.

Considering everything that's going in to it, I believe $99 is a fair price. Some will argue that  Jaguar should be free because it's only adding features that should have been there in the first place. Well, there are some features that Apple should have had in 10 - 10.1, but realistically, with Jaguar we are getting a much bigger upgrade than what most had expected. Inkwell, iChat, QuartzExtreme, Rendevous, improved Mail & Address Book, and Sherlock 3 are all big enough improvements on their own to warrant this a paid upgrade. But also consider all the tweaks to the Finder you are getting (very significant), QT6, super improved networking, Universal Access, etc. It's a very large upgrade. Much larger than 10.0 - 10.1, larger than 8.6 - 9.0, or even 7.6 to 8.0. Aside from the upgrade to OS X 10.0, it looks like the largest upgrade Apple has ever offered. 

If the upgrade price bothers you, sticking with 10.1.5 is fine. You're not entitled to an upgrade for free just because you think you deserve it. I get really tired of this mentality. It's very destructive. Apple works hard on the upgrades, and deserves to charge for them when they are released. If $99 is too much for you, there are discounts available to those in Education. Plus, if you wait for a few months, discounted CDs start to pop up at places like SmallDog or PowerMax.

Either way - prepare yourselves for the price - it will be right around $100...


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## Urbansory (Jun 18, 2002)

I would love to get it free, but I'm sure i won't. I just hope Apple takes into consideration the people that recently purchased the OS, after all they are trying to get people to convert, not piss them off. I paid for mine, and if I didn't have to pay full price, i guess i would be satisfied, I just better see Quicktime movies actually play near the frame rate they were made to. I haven't had my copy for 3 months yet and I'll have to buy another, how much sense does that make? I guess if you think about it, it wouldn't be fair to charge different rates based upon when you purchased it, since we can all upgrade to 10.1.5, I'm just made that i JUST bought X, and within 6 months I have to buy it again.


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## benpoole (Jun 18, 2002)

Well, Apple used to do that "proof of purchase" scheme, whereby you could get a new major release slightly cheaper if you had just recently bought the OS.


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