# 10.4 Features!



## jackdahi (Apr 13, 2004)

If you were the project manager for the next update to the Mac OS (10.4), What new features would you add?

It could be anything Core, Graphics, etc...


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## mi5moav (Apr 13, 2004)

hi-def & built in PVR across firewire support better unicode support better virtual desktop support user coded piles (auto batch/sort feature) lock down feature 8


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## soulseek (Apr 14, 2004)

weve had more than one thread on this, do a search, close this thread


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## mi5moav (Apr 14, 2004)

I think this one thread thing is stupid... Most people don't search first and then write  a comment, whatever is in front of our eyes we will engage. A better way would be to have the new thread autolink to the old thread thus bringing the old thread back to life without searching for it.


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## Captain Code (Apr 14, 2004)

For some topics it's not a bad idea to keep bringing it up, but if it is a question that keeps getting asked with only one answer then there's no need for more than one thread.

This topic doesn't seem to be a bad one to revisit now and again.


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## jackdahi (Apr 14, 2004)

Some threads become battlegrounds between people. Im just looking for suggestions. Sometimes threads need to die and then resurected again. Sometimes that needs to be done in new threads.

Now unless a moderator asks me to close this thread, it will remain open!

And please lets not let this thread become a battleground. I think everyones opinion is important and needs to be respected. And also by keeping this subject in the limeight, it forces Apple to look at these ideas a bit closer as we the consumers have the power of demand. Trust me; they read theese threads! I know first hand!


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## bobw (Apr 14, 2004)

Moderators close threads, not members. If a thread needs to be closed, we'll close it.


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## cybergoober (Apr 14, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> Trust me; they read theese threads! I know first hand!



Who does? Jobs himself?


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## Captain Code (Apr 14, 2004)

cybergoober said:
			
		

> Who does? Jobs himself?




Maybe he works for Apple and is trying to get ideas from us


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## soulseek (Apr 14, 2004)

im pretty shure the new features for 10.4,are allready decided, ppl @ apple are not waiting from mac/win users @ macosx.com to save them...

the annoyin thing is that its almost may, but noone has any idea...until then any discussions about 10.4 are pretty useless. maybe some suggestions on 10.5


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## jackdahi (Apr 14, 2004)

It seems that soulseek has completely missed the point that this thread was make pretend.

And yes buddy we do read the threads!


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## JetwingX (Apr 14, 2004)

1) you two break it up
2)Soulseek, stop being so negative. i agree that they already have 10.4 in the works but hey we can still dream. and if you don't want to see 10.4 threads don't read them
3) i don't exactly know what you mean by "And yes buddy we do read the threads!" jackdahi, but yeah the whole point of a RUMORS/news thread is for people to project what they think.
4) I am nearly positive that there are people/developers here from apple that read this forum.


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## soulseek (Apr 15, 2004)

im not sayin ppl from apple arent looking around forums... maybe they are...

the important thing is if they pay attention to what they read(if they read)... in that case we would have a Mouse with 2 buttons, the ability to change mac os x themes and a cheap headless mac. probably the most requested features around any forum!!!

the fact is none of these exist right now... some guys @ apple decide forthemselves..they seem to know what they're doing.!!!

but still it doesnt mean u guys cant discuss and dream about 10.4. just dont get too excited... 



oh.. and im assure if jackdahi was working for apple, he wouldnt have a dual xeon as a work computer


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 15, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> the important thing is if they pay attention to what they read(if they read)... in that case we would have a Mouse with 2 buttons, the ability to change mac os x themes and a cheap headless mac. probably the most requested features around any forum!!!



Not true at all -- I'm sure Apple has reasons beyond comprehension for sticking with a one-button mouse, locking us into one "theme" and not making a headless Mac.

Plus, as active as this forum is, it probably represents a mere 1% of the Mac users out there, probably less.  If 1% of your customer base was suggesting new features, would you hop right on it and make the changes, or would you wait and see what the other 99% want?  I know it sounds reasonable to say that the other 99% _probably_ want a cheap, headless Mac and the ability to theme the system without 3rd party add-ons, but do you know for sure?  And should those be a priority for Apple?

The point is, those are trivial things.  A one-button mouse won't kill you to use -- in fact, it's kinda nice.  Some people prefer two or more buttons, but for the most part, you can navigate OS X just as well with a one-button mouse as you can with a multi-button mouse.  As for themes, well, I'd like to see that too, but I'd hate to take a programmer away from a more important task to put him on some aesthetic issue that a fraction of the userbase would _like_ to see.  Lastly, I think the headless Mac has been discusssed to death.  How would that benefit Apple?  We can already get great headless machines for about $1000, and if the price dipped much below that, you can be sure that the quality of the machine wouldn't be nearly up to par with Apple's standard  -- maybe we'd see a little jump in the installed userbase, but maybe not -- remember, most of the people who want a headless Mac are _already_ Mac users -- how would that help?  Also, it would defeat the purpose of Apple's "ease-of-setup, ease-of-use" policy, and Apple would then have to provide support for non-Apple devices such as monitors and keyboards/mice.  You can't sell a headless machine then refuse to troubleshoot it when a cheap-o PC monitor doesn't work right with it.

Apple sells complete systems for a reason.  They're not overpriced, it's just that Apple doesn't offer much in the sub-$1000 range.  You want a headless Mac?  Get a single-processor G4 tower for $1300.  Two button mouse?   $20 at any BestBuy or CompUSA.  System themes?  Unsanity's ShapeShifter - $20.


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## soulseek (Apr 15, 2004)

any of these 3 features I dont care about. but others seem to do... 

this forum might represent less than 1% of mac users but it surely represents more than 1% of ONLINE MAC USERS REGISTERED IN FORUMS...

and eldiablo if u read my post, i said 'most requested features around any forum'
im a member in at least 3 mac forums and in all of them these are top requests all the time. im not sayin there correct. i mostly disagree

i just wanted to stress that online forums have no power or say in apple decissions.

mac buyers have power. if 10.4 upgrades are quite low  due to lack of features or high price... then aPPLE will be forced to do better with 10.5 .... a bunch of new threads from ppl who are partly windows users, dont have any say in 10.4 ....


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

Well if you would have cared to comprehend what you read on my signature a few days ago, you would have noticed that my Dual Xeon is in fact running Red Hat Linux.

Also not everyone has the luxury of just using the Mac OS for work.

And your right, I dont work for Apple. I never claimed that I worked for Apple. What I meant by my statement "trust me we do read the threads" is that I develop Audio Software. And my company, witch will remain un-named for good reason, always asks us the developers to scout user forums for what may be good features to add to our software and also to see how users feel about certain things. This does not mean that ALL suggestions will be added to the software. Only the ones that make sense and fit the current/future business model will be considered.

I love my Mac. I have three of them and an Ipod. And yes, unfortunately I am Also a windows User.


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## soulseek (Apr 15, 2004)

i wasnt critisizing what u work on.... although i do remember a machine with windows on it apart from the dual xeon...
but we live in a Wintel era... its only logical...  

i was just answerin to some1 who was claimin/jokin about u workin for apple 


and its only logical for developers to scour forums for suggestions, since noone really provides feedback to software makers ( correct me if im wrong)


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 15, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> and its only logical for developers to scour forums for suggestions, since noone really provides feedback to software makers ( correct me if im wrong)



I disagree.  Versiontracker.com's comments area is overflowing with users who provide feedback to developers, both through the comment area as well as direct email/phone/mail to the developer(s).

I do agree, though, that many developers get indirect feedback through forums like this, however, not nearly as much as they would from other sources.  I'd be willing to bet than more feedback gets sent to Apple through their feedback page than through a forum.  I have no doubt in my mind that some Apple employees scour forums, whether it be in their free time for enjoyment or for feedback, but I doubt that forums are a main source of feedback for them.


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## soulseek (Apr 15, 2004)

versiontrackers comment area is also full of developers providing fake comments/feedback tryin to advertise their software so that they make u pay 10-20 bucks for it...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 15, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> versiontrackers comment area is also full of developers providing fake comments/feedback tryin to advertise their software so that they make u pay 10-20 bucks for it...



True, there is some software like that, but the number of actual, truthful user comments outweighs the developers' fake comments enormously.


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

Well we can go back and forth with this all day. I believe Apple as a company uses all of their information channels for user feedback. Whether it is forums, User feedback pages, versiontracker or any other form of information.

Im pretty sure they filter that data and respond.


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

I have formally asked for the closure of this thread since it is apparent that were not discussing 10.4 features.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 15, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> Well we can go back and forth with this all day. I believe Apple as a company uses all of their information channels for user feedback. Whether it is forums, User feedback pages, versiontracker or any other form of information.
> 
> Im pretty sure they filter that data and respond.



That's pretty much my point of view as well.  I was just trying to make the point that just because "I want a headless Mac for under $XXX" or "One button mice suck!" appear in more than one forum, it doesn't mean that Apple should jump and do it -- I'm sure Apple has their reasons for not making a cheap-o Mac box (quality concerns, would it be profitable in their business model, etc.) or packaging a two-button mouse with their systems.

Now we can just watch this thread grow with a bunch of people who think they know what's good for Apple better than the guys at Apple making the decisions saying, "A headless Mac would only be GREAT for Apple and increase market share!" and "If they included a two-button mouse with their systems they'd be king!"


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 15, 2004)

Sorry, got off on a tangent there.

I'll say that I'd like to see the much-discussed "piles" implemented in 10.4.  Although I don't have much desktop clutter or use for piles at the moment, many of my Mac-friends do, and that would drastically improve their ability to work with that clutter.

Also, better self-repair or diagnostic tools would be great.  I'm struggling with a problem now that doesn't manifest itself in a noticeable way, so I'm stuck shooting in the dark to see where the problem is.  Maybe a corrupt preference-checker script that runs like fsck?


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## bobw (Apr 15, 2004)

This thread was started to see what people would like to see in the next X update. The thread starter has asked that the thread be closed. For now, we'll keep it open, but let's stick to the subject;

*What would you like to see in 10.4*

No arguments, just what features would you like to see in the next update.
No need to dismiss what someone suggests because you wouldn't like something that was suggested.


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

How is San Antonio?

I have'nt heard too much about piles. It seems to me like a beefed up expose can do the job of piles. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe that even though there is great integration between Mac's and PC's it could be even beter. I believe that the Apple should make a free Randevous plugin for Windows Server 2003. Therefore when you plug in your Mac into a Windows network there will be zero configuration effort to setup most services. The plugin client should link your MacOS account to your Active Directory account.

I want to be able to plug my mac in a Windows network and not have to set everything up from scratch to use all the services available to me. Specially if I will be on that network teporarily.


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

Better Diagnostic tools is an awsome idea. Maybe have a service center of some sort included in the pref panes or in the utillities folder as an app.


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## bobw (Apr 15, 2004)

> I want to be able to plug my mac in a Windows network and not have to set everything up from scratch to use all the services available to me. Specially if I will be on that network teporarily.



Now this would be a nice incentive to switch.


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## soulseek (Apr 15, 2004)

according to some of last years rumours, piles where to be included in 10.3  but later on dropped... there hasnt been much discussion about it this year... it would be interesting to see them in 10.4, although i dont really see what difference (increased functionality) they would have in comparison to a folder... they could be though another fancy UI feature for us Mac OS X users to show off


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## jackdahi (Apr 15, 2004)

64 bit 10.4 that would also be nice.


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## Pengu (Apr 15, 2004)

As for Rendezvous in Win2003 Server. Apple don't NEED to make a plugin. Apple have once again, shown us what no one else chooses to INCLUDE. Rendezvous is actually just apples name for zeroconf, which is basically just DHCP style config, for everything. The same as Airport, is just 802.11B Wi-Fi, and Airport Extreme is 802.11G Wi-Fi. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's good. The more standards support from apple, the better life will be. I'm just saying it isn't up to apple to make Microsoft's products easier to use.


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## mindbend (Apr 15, 2004)

Off topic warning:

Speaking of standards-based computing:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/04/14/nsw/


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## iPenguin (Apr 15, 2004)

Something that I'd like to see re-implemented in 10.4 is the ability to close windows from the dock. 
It was there in 10.2 betas, it was one of the high touted new features for awhile, along with minimize in place, which was also dropped...  Anyone know why?


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## jackdahi (Apr 16, 2004)

Pengu said:
			
		

> As for Rendezvous in Win2003 Server. Apple don't NEED to make a plugin. Apple have once again, shown us what no one else chooses to INCLUDE. Rendezvous is actually just apples name for zeroconf, which is basically just DHCP style config, for everything. The same as Airport, is just 802.11B Wi-Fi, and Airport Extreme is 802.11G Wi-Fi. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's good. The more standards support from apple, the better life will be. I'm just saying it isn't up to apple to make Microsoft's products easier to use.



Your right Pengu. But Rendezvous and zeroconf are indeed two separate things. Look it up!

Now as far as Apple; It will benefit from making a free plugin that will integrate Rendezvous into windows services.

I will explain it on another post. I have to get back to work.


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## MacMuppet (Apr 16, 2004)

Er sorry what is 'piles'? Forgive my ignorance....


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## bobw (Apr 16, 2004)

> Something that I'd like to see re-implemented in 10.4 is the ability to close windows from the dock.



Control Click or Right Click the icon in the Dock - HIDE - and the apps window will close


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## Decado (Apr 16, 2004)

just a small thing: i would like a slider in the toolbar (optional) that changed the size of the icons it the choosen folder.


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## Decado (Apr 16, 2004)

oooh, and a slider that changed the depths of the open windows. i.e if you draged it to the right the distance on the z-axis would increase. the windows at the bottom would be smaller and the shadows would be longer and they would also be slightly out of focus. not useful but neat


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## mindbend (Apr 16, 2004)

1. A GUI mode for power users. OS X is currently too much of a babysitter for idiots. That's fine for the general user, but it really gets in my way a lot. For example, when changing file extensions, you'd think you were trying to to change nuclear security codes. Who accidentally changes a file extension? And then to pour salt on the wound, you can't use a single-key hot key to approve the change. Which leads me to my next gripe...

2. Single-key hot keys for dialog windows (yes, I know it's "Windows-like", but frankly it's faster). Also, throw in ability to TAB through dialog options instead of forcing me to mouse my way or use multiple key combos. It's really freaking old after twenty years of it on the Mac.

3. Better icon previews. Too many file types still don't render in the Finder.

4. In column view in Finder, when selecting multiple items, you don't get a summary report of their info. Yes, you can see how many files you selected on the bottom of the window, which helps, but I'd like to also see how many MB/GB I have selected. Doesn't sem like too much to ask.

5. Inline searching in open/save windows. Wouldn't that be cool?

10.3 is really quite impressive actually. I held off buying a G5 just because I was so impressed with Panther's efficiencies. Great OS.


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## Pengu (Apr 16, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> Your right Pengu. But Rendezvous and zeroconf are indeed two separate things. Look it up!
> 
> Now as far as Apple; It will benefit from making a free plugin that will integrate Rendezvous into windows services.
> 
> I will explain it on another post. I have to get back to work.


 Ah, jack...

I'm not quite sure, but how can Rendezvous and Zero Conf be different things, when these two pieces of text come from the two relevant websites:

from www.zeroconf.org mainpage


> Apple has announced their Zeroconf networking solution under the product name Rendezvous. Rendezvous forms the foundation for completing Apple's transition from AppleTalk to all-IP networking. Apple's customers have high expectations for ease of use, and Rendezvous enables Apple to meet those expectations. Apple is providing Rendezvous services beginning in the Jaguar release of the Mac OS X Operating Sytem, and will be using those services aggressively in its own applications.



and from http://developer.apple.com/macosx/rendezvous/index.html


> Rendezvous enables automatic discovery of computers,  devices, and services on IP networks. Also known as Zero  Configuration networking, Rendezvous uses industry standard  IP protocols to allow devices to automatically find each  other without the need to enter  IP addresses or configure DNS servers.



Sure, apple might not be using the EXACT same code. But you wouldn't say Safari isn't a browser because it uses different code to Mozilla, or that apples SMB client is different to Windows client, because it uses different code.


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## ex0dus (Apr 19, 2004)

iPenguin said:
			
		

> Something that I'd like to see re-implemented in 10.4 is the ability to close windows from the dock.
> It was there in 10.2 betas, it was one of the high touted new features for awhile, along with minimize in place, which was also dropped...  Anyone know why?



Panther can close windows from the dock. Right-click or crtr click and have a go.....   Not sure about minimize in place though.


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## soulseek (Apr 19, 2004)

macosrumors.com
talks about a really improved disk utility in 10.4... 

it seems quite interesting, and overall helpful!!!


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## iPenguin (Apr 21, 2004)

> Control Click or Right Click the icon in the Dock - HIDE - and the apps window will close



I don't want to just hide the app windows. What I want to be able to do is to actually close the windows. Say I minimize a window to save it for later, and then realize I don't really want it. I'd like to able to right click it and have the option to close it from the dock, rather than un-minimizing it and then closing it. You can do this in the Finder (i just realized...) but not in other applications. This should be implemented in all apps.


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## celeborn (Apr 21, 2004)

I'd like to see Apple focus on the Finder. It hasn't fundamentally improved since 10.0. John Siracusa has written a very good article on the problems of the OS X Finder, so I won't start repeating what he said here.
http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html

The most annoying thing about the crappy Finder is that improving it clearly can't be very hard, if one person (Path Finder, a great Finder alternative) can come up with a better solution in a short time. Path Finder isn't perfect, but it makes a point.

Unfortunately I currently do not have a Mac. Hopefully by the time I have one again, Apple will have sorted this out.


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## Krevinek (Apr 21, 2004)

celeborn said:
			
		

> I'd like to see Apple focus on the Finder. It hasn't fundamentally improved since 10.0. John Siracusa has written a very good article on the problems of the OS X Finder, so I won't start repeating what he said here.
> http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html
> 
> The most annoying thing about the crappy Finder is that improving it clearly can't be very hard, if one person (Path Finder, a great Finder alternative) can come up with a better solution in a short time. Path Finder isn't perfect, but it makes a point.
> ...



To be honest, I never liked Path Finder too much, a lot of the time it just felt too busy and still has problems achieving the Spatial Finder described in the article you linked (the last time I used it).

However, I personally think that the whole GUI concept can use a re-design. Treating applications as seperate objects to the user is not always the best way, but rather windows and the associated tasks can be grouped an manipulated by the user, and applications can be launched and quit for those tasks. Granted it would require a whole paradigm shift, but with work I think it could work well. I just wish I had enough experience with flash to be able to do a mock-up.


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## Trillian (Apr 21, 2004)

Personaly, I'd like to see the finder go out alltogether, or atleast be intergreated better with safari. One of the things that I like most about KDE is that is has full .png support (i.e. png files show the contents, not a .png icon), and konq duobles as both a filemanager, and the browser. Plus with things like on the fly translations, it's a killer app for someone who deals with websites that aren't in your native language.

When I heard that safari was based on ktml, I was hopefull, but then I was said, when It didn't featuer alot of konq's more useable featuers. Apple, are you listening??


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## jobsen_ski (Apr 24, 2004)

Well i'd like to see apple intruduce something accross the board all to all apps that they included in iphoto 4.01 I would like to see them let you shut the app from the window (especialy if its only a 1 windo app) like iPhoto the thing is that in iphoto the x at the top left had corner is replaced by a circle - when u click it it shuts the window and the app - much better you have no reason for the app to be open after you have shut the window anyway! but the thing is in iPhoto this icon (the circle) sometimes goes back to the usual x but still perfoms the same task (shuts whole app) what I would like to see apple do is have 4 "buttons" at the top left the first a circle (like in iPhoto) shuts the whole app and obviously the window the second - a x should close that window only and then the usual - buton to minimize and + to maximize. I think this would be beter rather than having to select quit from app menu or comand and Q.

 It would also mean that macs on display in shops (obviously not apple stores) wouldnt get all cloged up and seem slow. In my local PC world the macs are all realy slow because people (most of which will be windows users) open up the new and exciting apps like iphoto and itunes to have a look then when theyve dun they close it (by pushing the x buton) they think they have closed the whole app but infact have shut just that window! It thn means when the next customer comes along there might allready bee 4 or 5 app using up RAM neadlessly so the app he or she runs seems slow the problem gets worse and worse and no one ever bother to fix it. This can easily happen to me if I forget to quit and app and just put away the window ( i have my dock hiding turned on) so i rarly get to see the small black triangles which tell you an app is still open and inexperienced users may not notice or not know what these are.

Anyway just my sugestion!


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## celeborn (Apr 24, 2004)

Trillian said:
			
		

> Personaly, I'd like to see the finder go out alltogether, or atleast be intergreated better with safari.



I think this issue has been discussed many times - it's just not Apple's style to lump lots of unrelated features into one app, but instead have many apps which do one thing well and operate well with each other.


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## celeborn (Apr 24, 2004)

Krevinek said:
			
		

> To be honest, I never liked Path Finder too much, a lot of the time it just felt too busy and still has problems achieving the Spatial Finder described in the article you linked (the last time I used it).



You're right, and I should've been more clear about what I meant - Path Finder is a file browser, and as such works better than Apple's Finder because it functions consistently. Apple should separate the browser and spatial Finder completely, so that when you choose "New window" (new browser would be better, perhaps) you get a browser which always behaves as one and keeps the same view (icon, list or column) ALL THE TIME. 
The Spatial Finder functionality, on the other hand, should be exactly like it was in OS 9 - one window per folder and shouldn't allow magically transforming the window into browser. 

The behaviour of spring-loaded folders is really weird in the current Finder, too. Sometimes you get a new window (which might or might not have the same view as the previous window) and sometimes you don't. Annoying as h#ll.


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## Arden (Apr 26, 2004)

Mindbend: you can already navigate via the tab key.  Open up the keyboard preference pane, click Keyboard Shortcuts and check it out!

I would also like to see the features I have suggested in my previous threads:
Some Changes for 10.3
Some Changes for 10.4


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## mi5moav (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm still waiting for text ripping. I used to use that so much in 9 when I was surfing or reading a document. Whenever I came across some text(url,address, name) I would highlight and drag it to the desktop creating a text clipping. Then I could take the text clip and drag and paste right into whatever supported it.  In osx I have to open up text edit or some other thing copy and paste it.... crazy what where the reasons this went?  

I'm sure most people never used this... I'm sure everyone works a little differently. My desktop is truly my desk and no one else's. I have seen 1000's of employees physical desks and some are so sterile and tidy you could operate on it others look like a garbage dump. However, I could take 1000 employees to every desk and they would change something or everything about it. We organize our own ways I can't use a desktop that is neatly organized into folders and subfolders. I need everything thrown right there in front of me. Just like reading a book some people use a card so they don't read beyond the line they are on... I never understood this until I was older. I read by basically taking a snapshot of the page and then one by one the words are transfered into my head. I would strangle myself if I couldn't see all the information all the time at anytime. The only reason I have any folders on my desktop if for information I don't care about, possibly going to throw out or information that I want someone to have a hard time seeing or pretend that is something secretive so they waste there time searching.


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## mindbend (Apr 26, 2004)

Arden,

Thanks for the info on the TAB key use. I didn't know that. That's very cool.

However, I can't get it to work as I would envision. For example, I can navigate the buttons using the TAB key, but I can't figure out how to activate my selection.

For example, let's say I make a new document in TextEdit and choose Save. I can now TAB through to the various options (file name, New Folder, Cancel, Save, etc.). But how do I activate the New Folder selection? Hitting Return or Enter just defaults to the SAVE option. Obviously just tabbing to something doesn't do any good if you can't then activate it via the keyboard. Clearly I'm missing something.

Thanks!


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## andychrist (Apr 26, 2004)

mi5moav said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting for text ripping.



Text ripping still works, at least in the most recent version of Safari.  To be honest though, I really thought it had been disabled too until I tried it just now!

I agree with jobsen_ski, would love to be able to quit applications with just one click on a button.  One of the coolest features of OS X is that you can hit a widget without first having to bring its window to the front.

And when you select an alias and choose Show Original, it wouldn't hurt if the Finder always automatically selected and scrolled to it.


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## Arden (Apr 26, 2004)

mindbend said:
			
		

> Arden,
> 
> Thanks for the info on the TAB key use. I didn't know that. That's very cool.
> 
> ...


 Spacebar, my friend.  Took me about 2 tries to get that.


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## jackdahi (Apr 26, 2004)

This thread is now rockin!!!!

How about a major update to Sherlock. I think this application needs some updates and better channels. So far I have been able to do pretty much everything on sherlock but it would be nice for apple to partner with even more people to provide content. Comcast; Time Warner, COX can use these channels to provide information about their interactive services. UPS, FED EX, AIRBORNE EXPRESS, USPS, PILOT and other cargo companies can use these channels for their tracking services. Yes I know these are already done with Watson but, I want to see them in Sherlock.

Other services that can add to Sherlock's and make it a more solid application is the addition of other services such as: traffic conditions across the US with Live video feeds, a solid entertainment channel with guides to cities across the US and Europe, Jobs, SMS from Sherlock.

I know most of these tasks can already be accomplished with out the use of Sherlock but it would still be nice to have this information in one central place. 

I want to think of Sherlock as a Heavyweight Champ, which in many ways it already is. But lets make it a more solid tool Apple.


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## profx (Apr 26, 2004)

mi5moav said:
			
		

> highlight and drag it to the desktop creating a text clipping. Then I could take the text clip and drag and paste right into whatever supported it.



This is working for me in lots of applications. I use it all the time in Xcode when i remove big blocks of code. Does anyone know of a short cut to comment out many lines of code at the same time? I want to be able to select the code i want commented, hit a key combo and it insert // at the beginning of each line. Obviously the same command would remove the comments.

I think all the cocoa apps support text clippings, in safari you can drag pictures off, but it saves them as their original format (just a shortcut to "save image as...")

I want to see iPhoto support little movies, i have lots of movies that were taken with my digital camera that have no where to live, they are all in one folder, unnamed, unsorted, and probably never viewed because they are not with the photos that were taken at the same time. iPhoto should support movies as well (im not talking about 600Mb DivX files here - just 3 minute movies!)


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## Go3iverson (Apr 26, 2004)

I'd like to see three things, maybe someone suggested it and I missed it, but....

1.  iPhoto Server Edition - The current version needs a hack to run on Server, but I'd love to have a version that I could use at work that we can have all of our images stored on and shared out via Rendezvous sharing.

2.  FontBook Server - Create font sets on "Tiger" server that will be shared out via Rendezvous to FontBook client apps for seemless integration and centralization of font resources.

3.  FontBook Rendezvous support - to work with previously mentioned server software.


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## Arden (Apr 26, 2004)

Profx:  Hit 4 key combos and you're done.

/*

*/


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## profx (Apr 27, 2004)

my point exactly 4 key combos...

i want one key combo, i (am forced to) use .NET at uni and i have to say, its source completion kicks ass, aslo it has that handy commenting feature. But i have to say, it is bloat ware, way to much stuff in visual studio for one app.  Off topic, sorry...

I could probably write an apple script to do what i want though - select the block of text i want commented, run key combo for apple-script, it cut the text, add the /* and */ to begging and end then repastes back in (in the blink of an eye).

What better to do on a tuesday night when i should be sleeping... i do that now!


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## MacMuppet (May 4, 2004)

I would like to see some kind of 'magnifying glass' type utility. I suspect video processing power isnt there yet, but wouldnt it be cool if by maybe holding down a couple of keys you could change the mouse into some kind of magnifier? I use maps and largeish high-res images a lot, and get a bit exasperated zooming in and out in preview (its quicker that Acrobat Reader, but not much) as and when I need to.
At first I thought this would be asking too much, especially if you were wanting to change the resolution within the 'lens' area, even on G5s you'd probably be a beachball expert every time you moved the mouse, but maybe its do-able. Hooray for Open-GL.


----------



## mindbend (May 4, 2004)

I want built-in ability to monitor QuickTime content via FireWire. I'm talking about right thru the QT Player, not from Final Cut. Wasn't there some shareware that did that at one point?


----------



## Giaguara (May 4, 2004)

New voices for the Speech ... Scottish, Sicilian,  ...


----------



## Cat (May 5, 2004)

WooHoo: Sicilian!

"Accattàmme 'a mail" "m'a leggesse 'stu testo" "cùccate!"  

I'd like that.


----------



## texanpenguin (May 5, 2004)

I love OS X, don't get me wrong...
But sometimes, for some things, I just prefer the way Windows does it.

I want an option in View Options (Cmd-J) to sort folders independently of loose files, so I can see all my folders together at the top of my window. I'm very organised, most of my files are in folders. When I save a file as a loose file in a directory it's usually because I want to get to it quickly. I don't want to get it lost amidst folders. And I certainly don't want it above the folders (as anything with file-type less than 'Folder' does when sorted by type).

I want an option, or maybe even a third-party utility that can run on startup, that allows me to use the Windows behaviour of keyboard-selecting text or items, and to adopt the behaviours of Home, End, Page Up and Page Down. It's possible, because Office v.X uses the Windows selection algorithm and overrides Apple's one. I want to be able to click in the sentence once, and hold Shift and End and for that to select the whole line, to the end of that line. I want Home and End to be the beginning and end of a LINE not of a document. Or at least, I want the option.

Not for me, but for people who, above, stated they wanted to be able to quit programs from a widget - Cmd+Maximise is a variation of Maximising - couldn't we have Cmd+Close bound to Quitting? (For those that said the circle denotes quitting, it actually denotes changes since last saved).


Outside of XP-like differences, I want to see:

Support for separators in the Dock

The ability to change the selection box colour on the desktop (it's various shades of white at the moment which doesn't suit a white desktop picture).

Better transparency support across the board. I want to be able to copy from preview, and have the transparency map applied before it's sent to the clipboard, as opposed to having large quantities of black around transparent images (primarily for pasting into Get Info windows). I want Safari to show alpha-blended PNG files properly (case in point: www.deviantart.com ).

I want to be able to have more than one dock if I want, one on the left, one on the right, one at the bottom, for various collections of icons.

I want to be able to set up, using fast user switching, a system of multiple desktops, so I can zap into a corner and the desktop folds over on itself with your username II...

When I'm going through spring-loaded folders to move a file or to drag a file over an application to open it with that application, I want to be able to scroll down in the Applications window somehow - apparently holding a file to the bottom of a window doesn't scroll down anymore.

I want to recover the ability from OS9 to drag windows to the sides of screens to form tabbed drawers.

Oh, and when Keyboard Navigation is on, I don't want to see an ugly blue glow around unselected items until I start tabbing. I also want this to (a la Windows) underline a character I can press to instantly select the option.

I'm really looking forward to the new update; I hope it lives up to my ridiculously high expectations.


----------



## MacMuppet (May 5, 2004)

Sheesh, you don't want much do you?  

I would like more control over the general look of the interface without resorting to themes - I like the way it looks fine actually, just wish I could change the background colour of folders to something apart from white, I'd like a full colour palette for this, so you could have off-white (not so glaring), and also could have pink or whatever if you really wanted.
I second the more colours for folder tabs too....


----------



## texanpenguin (May 5, 2004)

MacMuppet:

You CAN use different colours:

Cmd+J (or View - Show View Options...) and then at the bottom of the window, select 'Colour' and pick a colour by clicking on the square that appears.

Also, your hope for a magnifying glass sounds alot like Pixie (one of the Developer's Tools) to me.


----------



## texanpenguin (May 5, 2004)

Also, I want an option in Safari to have it use CSS-themed buttons and scrollbars as IE does, for certain websites...


----------



## Browni (May 5, 2004)

now you see, back in OS9 if i remenber rightly, the 'tabbed' folders were called spring loaded folders ( corect me if im wrong) but i also seccond that request it would be like many docs on your desktop


----------



## jackdahi (May 6, 2004)

It looks like Security, Safari, and a possible new file system might be introduced. Although a new file system might not be really introduced in Tiger, it must be introduced in some other release. We must not let microsoft take this one away from Apple.

For what I have read Safari will implement a new java script engine that it is said to be Super Fast. Well see....

Security always needs to be looked at carefully too.


----------



## bobbo (May 6, 2004)

I want to be able to sort labeled documents outside of list view.


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## bobbo (May 6, 2004)

Reading about live search folders (http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-5.html) gives me an idea. You know how Apple is into the "Library" idea, iPhoto iTunes style? What if they had some of that in the finder? Hopefully not storing all files in the same place - but maybe smart folders?


----------



## dlloyd (May 6, 2004)

I think smart folder was already suggested.

texaspenguin: about your multiple desktops. Try this app: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12682

I don't use it at the moment, but it looks like almost exactly what you want, and it works really well


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (May 6, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> For what I have read Safari will implement a new java script engine that it is said to be Super Fast. Well see....



Oooh!  Is that a "JavaScript" engine, or a "Java" script engine?  Where'd you read that?


----------



## eric halfabee (May 6, 2004)

I would like to see the reintroduction of the 'delve down' feature that was in OS 9 x, where you double clicked (holding the button down on the second click) on a folder and you could look into subsequent folders to find what your looking for blah blah and if you didn't find it move the cursor back to the desktop and all the folders would close again  if you know what I mean?

Also I would like the icons in a folder to resize when you resize the enclosing folder  with the aid of a modifier key of course so it can revert to how it does it now.

I want the option to turn of menu blinking, I blinkin hate it.

How about a pop-up info box appears over a file folder when you hover over it when holding modifier keys to provide a quick look at properties, then it disappears again, but you still have the standard Get Info windows too.

I would like the option to have what I call background apps such as Stuffit Expander to stop from coming to the front when I have downloaded something from Safari or whatever, so it doesn't interfere with my browsing etc.

It would be cool if you could get app info from and the option to resize the application switcher.

Erm what else, oh yes improved performance.

Cheers

eric


----------



## branded24 (May 6, 2004)

When I'm going through spring-loaded folders to move a file or to drag         a file over an application to open it with that application, I want to be able to scroll down in the Applications window somehow - apparently holding a file to the bottom of a window doesn't scroll down anymore.

You can still scroll in a spring-loaded folder by dragging the file to the bottom of the window.


----------



## eric halfabee (May 6, 2004)

Rendezvous enabled Address Book.


eric


----------



## bobbo (May 6, 2004)

menu blinking? what is that?


----------



## bobbo (May 6, 2004)

sorry. i didn't read some of the previous threads. but hopefully no one has mentioned this. I REALLY want more integrated iCal. I don't like to take the time to launch iCal to see what is on my schedule for a week, what I have to do,etc. so i use a sticky which I update every week with things I need to do, calendar, etc. wouldn't it be nice if iCal had something like this with integration into the finder?


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (May 6, 2004)

bobbo said:
			
		

> menu blinking? what is that?



Try this to see an example: make the Finder active, then select "New Finder Window" from the "File" menu.  When you let go of the mouse button to finalize the selection, watch the blue highlight bar (or whatever color you have set on your system) closely -- it'll blink once or twice, as if to emphasize the fact that the menu item was selected.

In OS 7/8/9, you could set this to one, two, three or zero blinks with the "General Controls" control panel.


----------



## jackdahi (May 6, 2004)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Oooh!  Is that a "JavaScript" engine, or a "Java" script engine?  Where'd you read that?



Quote from Appleinsider (RUMOR SITE) "Within the next 9 months Apple will also introduce a major revision to Safari, reliable sources said. While this major revision is expected to sport a number of new features, a version of the browser with a completely rewritten javascript engine could appear even earlier. The new javascript engine is said to be 'extremely fast' and is currently in the latter stages of development."

All yours buddy!

Im waiting for a 64bit finder! Lets make those G5's work smarter not harder please!


----------



## chevy (May 7, 2004)

I'm still waiting for Apple's word processor ? Will it embed LaTex in TextEdit ?


----------



## Quicksilver (May 7, 2004)

I'd Like to see a better image browsing option in the finder. Unfortunatly the filmstrip option in XP is great. We have a database full of thousands of images that we go through everyday these images have text information on them that we may want to see in detail without entirely opening the file, though i do have to say that the Thumbnails are too big. Mabey "image browser scaling" would be cool where you can preview a jpg/txt/doc at a certian size on screen without opening the file first.


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## Arden (May 7, 2004)

MacMuppet said:
			
		

> I would like to see some kind of 'magnifying glass' type utility. I suspect video processing power isnt there yet, but wouldnt it be cool if by maybe holding down a couple of keys you could change the mouse into some kind of magnifier? I use maps and largeish high-res images a lot, and get a bit exasperated zooming in and out in preview (its quicker that Acrobat Reader, but not much) as and when I need to.
> At first I thought this would be asking too much, especially if you were wanting to change the resolution within the 'lens' area, even on G5s you'd probably be a beachball expert every time you moved the mouse, but maybe its do-able. Hooray for Open-GL.


 Is this significantly different than what the Universal Access preference pane does?


			
				eric halfabee said:
			
		

> I would like to see the reintroduction of the 'delve down' feature that was in OS 9 x, where you double clicked (holding the button down on the second click) on a folder and you could look into subsequent folders to find what your looking for blah blah and if you didn't find it move the cursor back to the desktop and all the folders would close again  if you know what I mean?


Yeah, aren't spring-loaded folders back in Panther?


> How about a pop-up info box appears over a file folder when you hover over it when holding modifier keys to provide a quick look at properties, then it disappears again, but you still have the standard Get Info windows too.


Cmd-Option-I: the Mac OS X inspector.  Takes a little getting used to, but it's basically what you're asking for.


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## Giaguara (May 7, 2004)

eric halfabee said:
			
		

> Rendezvous enabled Address Book.



remembr to save all the lovers in the separate group so that the wrong persons can't see all the wrong names ...


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## Go3iverson (May 7, 2004)

eric halfabee said:
			
		

> Rendezvous enabled Address Book.
> 
> 
> eric


 ::ha:: 

Anyone else here a WWDC Scholarship Winner from last year?


----------



## macgeek (May 7, 2004)

How about iSync being able to sync more than the next two months of your calendar... how about that?


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## Ripcord (May 7, 2004)

I'd really like to see a MUCH better optimized GCC, something nearly as efficient as IBM's compiler.  In the end the terrible performance of GCC prevented me from being able to roll out a set of Dual-2.0ghz G5s with 20" Cinema displays and 17" Studio displays last November...


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## Ripcord (May 7, 2004)

I'd also like to see some UI stuff that's more revolutionary, stuff that no one's even thought of yet.  Signs are that Longhorn is going to leapfrog OS X's gradual upgrades in at least some areas, and I'd HATE to find out in 2006 that OS X is only "somewhat" better/different than it is today (i.e. the difference between 10.3 and 10.2.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Panther, but Longhorn is REALLY going to be putting the heat on.  I want my OS to remain a generation ahead of Windows!)


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## cq107 (May 7, 2004)

no one has mentioned tru 64bit OS... how about that... panther only has some tweaks so that it can use 8gb of ram, now what if all that 64bit goodness of the g5 could really be unleashed with a tru 64bit os  and apps.... ::alien::


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 7, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> Is this significantly different than what the Universal Access preference pane does?



Yea I love that! Command + Apple + Numpad '+' key or '-' is awesome, use it all the time... sometimes when i want to monitor a progress of something across the room, i'll just zoom in and I can see it easily!  

Definitely something you need 2 try if you haven't - not sure if its enabled by default tho!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 7, 2004)

cq107 said:
			
		

> no one has mentioned tru 64bit OS... how about that...





			
				jackdahi said:
			
		

> 64 bit 10.4 that would also be nice.


----------



## Androo (May 8, 2004)

From Apple CEO Steve Jobs:
"10.4 will be good..."


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 8, 2004)

Androo said:
			
		

> From Apple CEO Steve Jobs:
> "10.4 will be good..."



He's hardly gonna say its gonna BLOW, is he?  ::ha::


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## Fahrvergnuugen (May 9, 2004)

how about a multithreaded finder.. i can't believe that wasn't part of panther


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## Captain Code (May 9, 2004)

Fahrvergnuugen said:
			
		

> how about a multithreaded finder.. i can't believe that wasn't part of panther



Some things are already, but it could be better.


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## eric halfabee (May 9, 2004)

Hi Arden

Yeah I know spring loaded folders are back but they don't have that 'feature', you can hold a file/folder over another folder and it will drill down, but it wont drill down as ala OS 9 the way I described it (although my descriptions aren't that hot, I must admit).

_Cmd-Option-I: the Mac OS X inspector. Takes a little getting used to, but it's basically what you're asking for._ 

True its good but what I was thinking was a temporary one like the post summary you get here at macosx.com when you hover over the subject.


Cheers


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## jackdahi (May 9, 2004)

3Ghz is a possibility. But lets hope that with the speed comes a 64bit operating system. I think its time for Apple to really shine by taking the OS and making it crunch operations at the 64bit pace. Remember that while 3Ghz @ 32bit is great; 3Ghz @ 64bit crunching is that much better. Not to mention the if pro applications also become 64bit apps, the performance gains will be awsome.


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## soulseek (May 10, 2004)

the processor speeds dont have anythin to do with this thread.

talkin bout Tiger: one thing we can never stop askin for is SPEED; make Tiger run faster on all machines!!!

otherwise ...i dont have anythin in mind about Tiger... i just wanna see somethin as amazin as Expose and Fast user switching, revealed in 1 month.
What more can they come up with ? i Dont know... but with panther being a really stunning OS right now... its difficult 2 make a Tiger-worth-the-upgrade... 
ill buy it allright.. and the 10.5 and 10.6.... but not every1 has the money.

they will either have to make Tiger really amazing...
OR.. they could introduce an UPDATE FEE... 'give in your panther box and bay 70 instead for a Tiger box'


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## dlloyd (May 10, 2004)

soulseek, that wouldn't work very well. I'm sure plenty of people have copied their discs


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## jackdahi (May 12, 2004)

Security and MetaData support rumors dont seem to die. It seems that Apple will beat Microsoft in support of a MetaData OS. Lets just hope that Apple does it right. I mean, when the feature is added they must implement full support at the OS level. We all know MetaData will help us search for data more efficiently, so lets raise the bar with this one Apple. Leave no door opened for Microsoft to improve on their MetaData development.
Now while security is good on OSX, we must remember that OSX has holes that have yet to be exploited. Keep in mind that MOST (but not all) hakers attack Microsoft. Apple's OSX core level security methods are solid. Lets work those methods as concrete as can be for the non core elements in the Mac OS.


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## mi5moav (May 12, 2004)

more intuitive simpler ways to burn dvds and cds without 3rd party software. As well as virtual tunneling and free .mac email.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 12, 2004)

mi5moav said:
			
		

> more intuitive simpler ways to burn dvds and cds without 3rd party software. As well as virtual tunneling and free .mac email.



What's wrong with CD / DVD burning @ present? Between Finder, Disc Utility and iApps it seems fine. I have one query, something i've never bothered to look for, since i use Toast. Anyhow, out of the box, can OS X do multi-session CDR burning? As I say, I use it, but Toast works a treat for me!


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## dlloyd (May 12, 2004)

Yes, it can. Via Disc Utility


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## jackdahi (May 13, 2004)

I would like to see some sort of media centric app that will provide TV viewing and PVR functions with some kind of hardware. It would also be nice to integrate all of the iApps with this software. It will also be nice to output to HDTV.


----------



## Captain Code (May 18, 2004)

I would like to be able to run multiple desktops at the same time, BUT, from different computers.  Sort of like a dumb terminal, we could log into the machine from a remote location and have our own screen without taking over the regular screen that someone physically at the computer may be using.


----------



## fryke (May 18, 2004)

That's part of Mac OS X Server already, iirc? -> Ah, yes: http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/netboot.html ... That may not be _exactly_ what you mean, but it sure accomplishes the task?


----------



## Captain Code (May 18, 2004)

That would work if you were running all Macs, but it'd be cool if you could run the Mac desktop on a PC too, sort of like VNC, but without taking over the whole screen.

Like VNC/Remote Desktop and virtual desktops all in one.


----------



## jackdahi (May 19, 2004)

I believe that Longhorn will be doing the expose thing (under another name) when it finally ships. I have seen some video and it looks promising so apple should introduce some advanced expose functionallity. Its time for expose to start maturing in 10.4


----------



## texanpenguin (May 20, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> I believe that Longhorn will be doing the expose thing (under another name) when it finally ships. I have seen some video and it looks promising so apple should introduce some advanced expose functionallity. Its time for expose to start maturing in 10.4



Actually, those videos (which show windows with nifty eye candy being applied to them) are apparently merely to show the way that Longhorn will use DirectX in a way similar to how OSX uses Quartz/Quartz Extreme. If ANYTHING those effects will manifest themselves in things that are similar to the "Genie Effect" in OSX.

The effects they applied for the demo showed windows being morphed like Flags and things.


I want OSX to implement some of the cool things I saw in the Sun Looking Glass demo vid. Damn that was nifty. Like the way windows react and things.



I also want to see some sort of sketchpad program bundled with OSX, which could use the power of Inkwell, but not necessarily with a tablet.

Oh, and allow us to use the Apple menu in the very top corner of the screen, not strictly over the Apple logo... OR let us assign the corners to functions other than just Exposé and Screen Effects.


----------



## jackdahi (May 24, 2004)

texanpenguin said:
			
		

> I want OSX to implement some of the cool things I saw in the Sun Looking Glass demo vid. Damn that was nifty. Like the way windows react and things.



I too think it will be a great idea.


----------



## soulseek (May 24, 2004)

i too think it would be a waste of processor power!!!


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## fryke (May 24, 2004)

Someone on Dave Hyatt's blog (in the comments) asked for a fade-out/fade-in effect in Safari when loading new pages. That would certainly make browsing nicer.


----------



## Salvo (May 24, 2004)

How about a decent implementation of Meta-Data, like BeOS/BFS/Tracker. This could get a bit complicated, but would definately made up for it for Power-Users. This would also require a live Metadata Updater, which extracted ID3-Tags, JPEG EXIF Data and Word Document Attributes to FileSystem Attributes on-the-fly.

Other Things that would be nice are updates for iSync, AddressBook and iCal, so they can have better support for existing devices, and an increase in the number of devices supported. iSync still feels like a Work-In-Progress.

Better Image Support is also a High Priority for me too.
The Reason PNGs are so fantastic (IMO), is Adam-7 Interlacing. When Progressive JPEGs and Interlaced PNGs don't show up any differently to Standard JPEGs and non-Interlaced PNGs, it's quite detracting. Nothing worse than having to wait for a large PNG to finish loading before you know what the hell it's supposed to be.


----------



## jackdahi (May 24, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> i too think it would be a waste of processor power!!!


You and I encounter once again.........

Your right, if I were running a 300mb photoshop file. 

But for the most of us that use the computer for many other things other than processor hungry apps, there is an advantage to some of the project looking glass concept.

 The fact of the matter is not everyone that runs Mac OS requires the power that can produce. So if I have an iMac and use it for browsing and database development why could I not use the remaining processor power to enhance my navigational experience.

How about a college student that is conducting some reaserch and needs a better method for organizing his material while he reads through it!

Why not add this feature and give poeople the choice for turning it on or off.


----------



## Salvo (May 24, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> <<SNIP>>
> Why not add this feature and give people the choice for turning it on or off.


Because that leads to Feature Bloat, and an Inconsistant Desktop Across Machines. Sooner or later you end up like X11, with 3 different Desktop Environments, dozens of collections of different Apps which All do the same thing, and complex configuration techniques which make setting up the computer to how you like it last two weeks and some users not being able to use other users machines.

ObSuggestion:
What about a Z-Snake (like BeOS R5.1) in Menus which not only highlights menu selections, but also the path Menu Selections take?
http://www.osnews.com/img/632/zsnake.png


----------



## fryke (May 24, 2004)

Mac OS X does that - without the vertical lines. I think the highlight is enough.


----------



## jackdahi (May 26, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> Mac OS X does that - without the vertical lines. I think the highlight is enough.



While I would agree with both you guys, but I am also a firm believer of choice. What can effectively work for both you guys might not work for me. And vice versa. Therefore there should be more methods for organizing information in the Mac OS. Give people the choice.


----------



## jackdahi (May 31, 2004)

new fonts


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## jackdahi (Jun 1, 2004)

It looks like 10.4 will have a set of developer tools that will include .Net. If reports are correct.


----------



## Ifrit (Jun 1, 2004)

I haven't read the entire thread but what Apple should do  (of course I am unable to tell a huge enterprise what to do, but at least I am able to express my opinions here) IMHO, is to fix the flaws of the current OSX system. SMB browsing is still utterly broken, or only works randomly and I don't feel that typing "smb://ip-adress/share" in the "connect to server" box is very convenient. (Or yelling through the room, asking my coworker which ip adress his computer has)

Smb really needs to be fixed.

Secondly, if somebody uses the generic ps printer driver, a diologe box should tell the user, that there might be unforseen results when using this driver. My printer wasted 30 pages printing out ps gibberish it couldn't interpret correctly (and I was out of the room)


----------



## mindbend (Jun 1, 2004)

(off topic warning) Does anyone have any more information on this .Net with 10.4 rumor?

My design shop still has to code for ASP/.Net for obvious reasons (where we can't control the server options), so it would kick arse to be able to it all on our Macs and get rid of these wretched PCs once and for all.

Does anyone here code and test ASP locally on their Mac via VPC? Any drawbacks other than performance? 

My programmer codes on his Dell laptop and would like to get a PowerBook, but still needs to code ASP/.Net. I'm concerned that VPC performance for such a thing might suck on the PowerTower. And we're not sold on the price and actual usability of something like Chilisoft's ASP emulator.


----------



## stingerman (Jun 5, 2004)

mindbend said:
			
		

> (off topic warning) Does anyone have any more information on this .Net with 10.4 rumor?


You don't have to wait for 10.4, go here: http://www.go-mono.com/
.Net has been submitted as a standard so others can write binary compatible systems (Linux is to Unix so Mono is to .Net).  They even have a fully compatible C# compiler and a lot more.  There is a OS X build of it on the site.  




> My design shop still has to code for ASP/.Net for obvious reasons (where we can't control the server options), so it would kick arse to be able to it all on our Macs and get rid of these wretched PCs once and for all.
> 
> Does anyone here code and test ASP locally on their Mac via VPC? Any drawbacks other than performance?


It works fine, I have both VS6 and VS.NET running in a VPC/W2K window.  Two things, 1.  Use Win2K (there is really no reason to use WinXP, its bloated even for native intel pcs) and turn off all the GUI stuff like shadows and dragging whole windows in the display settings, aliasing etc.  Turn off any services that are not essential (you don't need firewalls or sharing or anything like that, rely on native OS X for all that stuff.)  and 2.  Your running two computers within one system so give each one its fair share of RAM.  I loaded my Powermac with 1GB and I give VPC the max 512MB.  It runs very very well.  Of course when you are not running VPC it gives it back.

Search the net, there are other programs that actually suspend many of the  OS X processes while VPC is active and boost it by another 20-30%.  I haven't tried them, but their approach sounds solid.  Of course, the next VPC (ver 7) is supposed to support the G5 and more importantly be multi-threaded so it will take advantage of dual processors.  As well, we understand, it will have native GPU drivers which will be huge for performance across all Mac lines. 



> My programmer codes on his Dell laptop and would like to get a PowerBook, but still needs to code ASP/.Net. I'm concerned that VPC performance for such a thing might suck on the PowerTower. And we're not sold on the price and actual usability of something like Chilisoft's ASP emulator.


A 1.5GHz Powerbook with 1GB would be more than ample, especially for ASP programming.  In fact, you should have no problem running 2 VPC sessions, one can act as the remote server with its own IP address and the other as the client/development PC.  You can emulate an entire network.  RAM will be your biggest benefit and the Powerbook 15" goes to 2GB.


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## stingerman (Jun 6, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> I believe that Longhorn will be doing the expose thing (under another name) when it finally ships. I have seen some video and it looks promising so apple should introduce some advanced expose functionallity. Its time for expose to start maturing in 10.4



Apple has a patent on expose by means of their Piles patent which covers expose as well.  Apple even has a patent on drawers, that's why XP doesn't have them.


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## fryke (Jun 6, 2004)

Piles patent does not cover Exposé. Not at all, really. However: I wonder whether Apple _does_ have Exposé (or parts of it) patented. Maybe that patent (or those patents) would show us where Exposé is heading?


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## Browni (Jun 7, 2004)

Ive had a look on the US patents website but i cant find anything that remotely resembles Exposé, found itunes GUI tho...


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## jackdahi (Jun 8, 2004)

stingerman said:
			
		

> Apple has a patent on expose by means of their Piles patent which covers expose as well.  Apple even has a patent on drawers, that's why XP doesn't have them.



XP does not have it because the current rendering engine could not handle such a feature. Thats why they are developing one. And they too can create from scratch something that might behave like expose. Why not they copy Apple all the time.

I do think Longhorn will come a long ways by 2006 but by then we will have 10.6 probably.

Im hearing isync will be updated soon...... Although I dont know how good my source is. And I also dont know if it will be upgraded for the release of tiger or before that.


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## burntoutjoy (Jun 11, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> It looks like 10.4 will have a set of developer tools that will include .Net. If reports are correct.


Could you please link me to these reports? I find it hard to believe Apple would work on a full, decent OS X implementation of Mono: if they were to do it properly, for example, they'd have to get Windows.Forms working through Aqua. Cool, of course, if it could be done at all (the interface styles are very different, you'd be in dabger of having a Java-Swing-style-mish-mash), but a humungous lot of work. Without the GUI side, things would be a lot easier, but even so, I would have thought Apple would concentrate on Cocoa.


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## jackdahi (Jun 15, 2004)

burntoutjoy said:
			
		

> Could you please link me to these reports? I find it hard to believe Apple would work on a full, decent OS X implementation of Mono: if they were to do it properly, for example, they'd have to get Windows.Forms working through Aqua. Cool, of course, if it could be done at all (the interface styles are very different, you'd be in dabger of having a Java-Swing-style-mish-mash), but a humungous lot of work. Without the GUI side, things would be a lot easier, but even so, I would have thought Apple would concentrate on Cocoa.



These reports have been published by macrumors, thinksecret, appleinsider all at different times with the most recent beeing appleinsider i believe. im sure that .net will behave almost transparently on the mac. You see it seems that Apple's goal is to attract even more developer to the mac platform. I heard that they are also thinking about adding C#.


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## bobbo (Jun 27, 2004)

mi5moav said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting for text ripping. I used to use that so much in 9 when I was surfing or reading a document. Whenever I came across some text(url,address, name) I would highlight and drag it to the desktop creating a text clipping. Then I could take the text clip and drag and paste right into whatever supported it.  In osx I have to open up text edit or some other thing copy and paste it.... crazy what where the reasons this went?



I just did this text and it created a text clipping. . .


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## bobbo (Jun 27, 2004)

jackdahi said:
			
		

> I believe that Longhorn will be doing the expose thing (under another name) when it finally ships. I have seen some video and it looks promising so apple should introduce some advanced expose functionallity. Its time for expose to start maturing in 10.4



If they do, I think it's really unlikely it will be as aesthetically pleasing as on a mac. Windows users don't care as much about that stuff - put a Windows interface and a Mac interface side by side, Mac is so much more beautiful. ie movies won't keep playing in Longhorn expose, not as much animations and stuff. and longhorn's not out for what - 2 years?


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## jackdahi (Jun 28, 2004)

Its started; now lets see if the features we wished for are a reality!!!!!


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## Browni (Jun 29, 2004)

ok, Dashboard: Why? Is it apple improving on a 3rd Party product, or taking advice from the user group? I just dont under stand why they have done it


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## guilly (Jun 29, 2004)

I just get back to the point of this thread.

Besides some very good points which arose throughout this thread, I would also like to add some possible new feature which would be enjoyable.

Integrated X11 runtime environment - user friendly (console becomes optional) and a better approach of UNIX X11 level applicactions and the Fink project to the mass public.


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