# MacBook: Where's the Word Processor?



## Amie (Nov 13, 2006)

Why did Apple remove the lovely AppleWorks program from the new iBooks (MacBooks)? My parents just bought a new MacBook and they're asking me, "Where's the word processor to do business records and filing?" I took a look at it and felt like a fool after ranting and raving about "how great Apple computers are." I said, "Duh ... I dunno ... looks like they didn't include a word processor when they switched to Intel." Or maybe it's the OS or the model (MacBook), I really have no idea. All I know is that I have an iBook G4 and it has AppleWorks, which is a really swell app (word processor, spreadsheet, and more all wrapped up in one). 

Soooo ... what are my parents supposed to do? Just use TextEdit as their word processor? Ugh.


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## nixgeek (Nov 13, 2006)

Well, there's always NeoOffice.  If you're not using AppleWorks, you could always give them your copy (don't know how legal this might be, but there it is...please don't kill me, fryke/ScottW/bobw/any-other-moderator! ).


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## Mikuro (Nov 13, 2006)

Apple wants to sell iWork, so they don't include AppleWorks anymore.  Personally, I think it's ridiculous. We get DVD mastering software for free, but not a word processor?! That just doesn't make sense to me.

TextEdit can actually serve as a decent word processor, but it doesn't have "the Apple touch" as far as ease of use goes.


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## Lt Major Burns (Nov 13, 2006)

i would file a bug report about this.

"Mac OS X doesn't appear to have a simple publishing program"


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## Qion (Nov 13, 2006)

Lt Major Burns said:


> i would file a bug report about this.
> 
> "Mac OS X doesn't appear to have a simple publishing program"



I second this.


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## Amie (Nov 13, 2006)

nixgeek said:


> Well, there's always NeoOffice.  If you're not using AppleWorks, you could always give them your copy (don't know how legal this might be, but there it is...please don't kill me, fryke/ScottW/bobw/any-other-moderator! ).



I apologize for this dumb-sounding question, but I've never done it before, so I really am clueless:  How would I do that?


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## Amie (Nov 13, 2006)

Mikuro said:


> Apple wants to sell iWork, so they don't include AppleWorks anymore.  Personally, I think it's ridiculous. We get DVD mastering software for free, but not a word processor?! That just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> TextEdit can actually serve as a decent word processor, but it doesn't have "the Apple touch" as far as ease of use goes.



I totally agree. And I have a feeling that Apple will be changing things in the near future. I think a lot of people are complaining about it, and I'll just bet that Apple will decide to re-include it in the software bundle.


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## Amie (Nov 13, 2006)

Lt Major Burns said:


> i would file a bug report about this.
> 
> "Mac OS X doesn't appear to have a simple publishing program"



Good idea! lol


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## MisterMe (Nov 13, 2006)

Amie said:


> I totally agree. And I have a feeling that Apple will be changing things in the near future. I think a lot of people are complaining about it, and I'll just bet that Apple will decide to re-include it in the software bundle.


Re-include *iWorks*? Apple never included *iWorks* with the Mac except as a demo.


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## Amie (Nov 13, 2006)

MisterMe said:


> Re-include *iWorks*? Apple never included *iWorks* with the Mac except as a demo.



No, re-include AppleWorks.


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## Lt Major Burns (Nov 13, 2006)

i think she means bundle a word processor/spreadsheet app.  if it's a completed iWork, so be it.  those that don't have it can pay $80 like iLife, but buy a new mac and it should come included.

in fact sod iWeb and garageband and give us word processing out of the box. i';m sick of having to pay £300 for Excel and the rest of office.  it;s not that good anyway.  and it's either that or shareware.  and no, NeoOffice is not a mac app.  if i wanted home-brew i'd have built myself a £200 linux box.

[/rant]


EDIT: sorry Amie, you got there first!


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## RockerChick (Nov 25, 2006)

I just got my macbook and I loved it until I couldn't find appleworks.  I am so furious that I just spent $1600 on a computer and I can't even make a spreadsheet for a school project without spending another $80.


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## Amie (Nov 25, 2006)

RockerChick said:


> I just got my macbook and I loved it until I couldn't find appleworks.  I am so furious that I just spent $1600 on a computer and I can't even make a spreadsheet for a school project without spending another $80.



I know. I sympathize with you.


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## RockerChick (Nov 26, 2006)

Problem solved!

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/index.html

Open Office

It's pretty much the same thing.  It's a free program with the equivalent of excel, power point, word, etc.  I haven't used it but when I browsed it looked really good.  Works for me anyway.


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## nixgeek (Nov 26, 2006)

The only thing is that OpenOffice.org requires X11 and the interface is very clunky (like they tried to fit a Windows application onto a Mac environment).  NeoOffice is a little better since it doesn't require X11, but if you ask some people here they will say that even that one isn't a good Mac application as some others because of the way they designed it ("not a true Mac application if the look and feel are subpar").  However, I've used them both and I don't have any problems with either of them (although I would recommend NeoOffice over OpenOffice until they can seriously work on the interface).  So, along with some of the other suggestions that were made, choose your poison.


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## SatCure (Nov 26, 2006)

I agree with the above comments about OpenOffice and NeoOffice. Slow and clunky on my old G4.

Cheapest I can find AppleWorks is here:
http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=M9057ZA
Worth checking eBay, too.

Thankfully, I already have AppleWorks and ClarisWorks. (AppleWorks is way too slow in OS9).


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## Mikuro (Nov 26, 2006)

nixgeek said:


> NeoOffice is a little better since it doesn't require X11, but if you ask some people here they will say that even that one isn't a good Mac application as some others because of the way they designed it ("not a true Mac application if the look and feel are subpar").



I used to say it wasn't a "true" Mac app myself, but I feel it has graduated from "cheap port" to "solid, if unpolished, Mac OS X program" (kind of like AppleWorks!). There's a huge difference there, at least to me. For a while NeoOffice looked like it was running in a Windows emulator. The menus were embedded in the document windows instead of in the menu bar, the scroll bars looked just like in Windows (except possibly uglier?), etc. It was just not a proper Mac program. Better than X11, but just barely.

But that is no longer the case! They now use standard menus, and they're even using Aqua interface elements now. The only problem I have with it is that the interface is not as elegant as it might be (again, this is also true of AppleWorks, which hasn't really been updated since the days of OS 8), and it's slow to launch.

All things considered, I give it the thumbs-up now. I install it on friends' computers when I set them up, and I use it myself when I need something more heavy-duty than TextEdit. It's powerful, and has great support for Microsoft Office files.

Kudos to the NeoOffice team. They've made great progress in Mac-ifying it. It's not perfect, but it keeps getting better.


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## fryke (Nov 26, 2006)

So let's just bring this together.

There's a couple of free options including NeoOffice and OpenOffice.org - and then there's Microsoft Office (with obvious pros and contras) and iWork '06 (of which a new version will probably come out in 2007 without cheap upgrade pricing, so I'd wait for that and use TextEdit 'til then...).


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## nixgeek (Nov 26, 2006)

Mikuro said:


> I used to say it wasn't a "true" Mac app myself, but I feel it has graduated from "cheap port" to "solid, if unpolished, Mac OS X program" (kind of like AppleWorks!). There's a huge difference there, at least to me. For a while NeoOffice looked like it was running in a Windows emulator. The menus were embedded in the document windows instead of in the menu bar, the scroll bars looked just like in Windows (except possibly uglier?), etc. It was just not a proper Mac program. Better than X11, but just barely.
> 
> But that is no longer the case! They now use standard menus, and they're even using Aqua interface elements now. The only problem I have with it is that the interface is not as elegant as it might be (again, this is also true of AppleWorks, which hasn't really been updated since the days of OS 8), and it's slow to launch.
> 
> ...



When I finally tried NeoOffice they had already Mac-ified it.  Had I tried NeoOffice before this, I would have just downloaded OpenOffice.org and used that as OpenOffice.org still has that clunky interface you just mentioned.  Looks just like it was lifted from either Windows or Linux without any modification whatsoever.  The menu is embedded in the window itself and not on the menubar and if you want to exit properly you have to go to that window menu and select File-->Exit (I don't think any Macintosh app has ever used the word "exit" when you wanted to "quit" the application).  I still use it because I'm a masochist (well, mainly because it's newer in versions than NeoOffice), but NeoOffice definitely beats OpenOffice.org hands down when it comes to interface looks.  OpenOffice is going in that direction (probably to combine both projects, but I don't know), but not for a while.


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## RockerChick (Nov 27, 2006)

Aw you guys are so crazy and technical.  Maybe I'll try this neo program though.  I was just in a jam yesterday and open was the first thing I found.  The interface seems fine to me.  It's mostly icons.  What does neo look like that makes it so much better? 

Hey if it does what I want it to do...it works in my book. ::ha::

Now SolarSeek, there's an interface I don't understand!  I miss SoulSeek on my Dell desperately.  I can't figure out how to delete anything.


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## Lt Major Burns (Nov 27, 2006)

try SoulseeX, or SSX - it's so much better than SolarSeek


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## middigit (Nov 27, 2006)

i'm using abiword for my my word procesor, its freeware and damn good for the price, just got a processor off the latest edition on macworld too Mellel they're giving it away free its usually 25 pounds or dollars dunno which


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 3, 2006)

So why exactly does every Mac user hate the Office 2004 for Mac? Is it because of pricing or is it just how it acts and is designed? I mean it had some nice graphical prowess to it last time I saw this demo of it! Also had some nice features like the note taking which could be very useful for university students! Anyone can explain to me why it sucks!

Thanks!


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## eric2006 (Dec 3, 2006)

Bio-Gene said:


> So why exactly does every Mac user hate the Office 2004 for Mac? Is it because of pricing or is it just how it acts and is designed? I mean it had some nice graphical prowess to it last time I saw this demo of it! Also had some nice features like the note taking which could be very useful for university students! Anyone can explain to me why it sucks!
> 
> Thanks!



A few things;
It's non-universal, so it runs slower on intel macs
It's expensive - very expensive
Other apps can be better at what it does
Some people don't like the interface
It's Microsoft.


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## middigit (Dec 3, 2006)

eric2006 said:


> A few things;
> It's non-universal, so it runs slower on intel macs
> It's expensive - very expensive
> Other apps can be better at what it does
> ...



Exactly that eric2006, also personally i've never liked MS Office - even when i used pc's at school and uni - only used it as a necessity really

secondly, i'd rather support the developer of mac software, the freeware and shareware being developed for osx are great peices of sortware


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 3, 2006)

Hmm so what about the next version which I hear will be coming out in 2007! It will of course be universal especially with Leopard coming out, obviously it will be even more expensive but what the hey there are alternatives if you do not want to buy it (such as borrowing lol from a friend who is rich: I mean the money)

But what I like about Office 2004 is that the edit tool bar is floating and works for all Office applications. In neooffice it is built in just like the normal Office for Windows! If there is a way to make the tool bar float then I am mistaken! (I hope you understand what I mean with the floating tool bar).


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 3, 2006)

middigit said:


> Exactly that eric2006, also personally i've never liked MS Office - even when i used pc's at school and uni - only used it as a necessity really
> 
> secondly, i'd rather support the developer of mac software, the freeware and shareware being developed for osx are great peices of sortware



That is true, but I wanted to know how often does NeoOffice update their software? Also do they update the look very often or as the software is updated?


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## Mikuro (Dec 3, 2006)

Bio-Gene said:


> That is true, but I wanted to know how often does NeoOffice update their software? Also do they update the look very often or as the software is updated?


Roughly every month or two, and YES. NeoOffice is a work in progress, and progress has been fairly swift so far. It wasn't until a few months ago that it even looked like a real Mac program. They seem dedicated to making it a great Mac app.


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 3, 2006)

Wow that is cool! I wish they would give it a face lift though such as the one Adobe has given to its CS2, where everything is seperated and floating!!! I like such stuff like that and in my opinion any App that looks like that is either a Mac App or originating from one lol!


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## middigit (Dec 3, 2006)

hmmm, you seem very superficially aware to the amount of work put in by independant mac software developers to try to give cheaper - even free - software alternatives to th likes of adobe and microsoft, these guys work full time updating apps all the time to get you to use a wholy better alternative application built with and for mac.


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 3, 2006)

Middigit, I understand what you are saying about the software being produced which has brought in many hours to us for free. For word processing apps and presentation making apps I think I might go with NeoOffice, as fro Adobe Photoshop CS2/3 I will stick with it! I have just gotten used to those apps and a lot of people use them already so they got way more support (talking about CS2 here).

It is not that I hate the free software, especially not for alternatives to Office but concerning CS2 I would rather stick with it!


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## Mikuro (Dec 4, 2006)

I agree with that. NeoOffice is a far better substitute for MS Office than GIMP is for Photoshop. GIMP isn't even a proper OS X program; it runs in X11. There hasn't been any _real_ competition for Adobe's programs in years, probably because piracy killed the market. (It's not _Adobe_ who suffers from people pirating Photoshop; it's you, me, and countless smaller developers who really suffer.)

Of course, GraphicConverter is great for what it does (better than Photoshop, I'd say), but it's a specialized tool.


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## middigit (Dec 4, 2006)

Bio-Gene said:


> Middigit, I understand what you are saying about the software being produced which has brought in many hours to us for free. For word processing apps and presentation making apps I think I might go with NeoOffice, as fro Adobe Photoshop CS2/3 I will stick with it! I have just gotten used to those apps and a lot of people use them already so they got way more support (talking about CS2 here).
> 
> It is not that I hate the free software, especially not for alternatives to Office but concerning CS2 I would rather stick with it!



Ok no problem then


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## chevy (Dec 4, 2006)

Bio-Gene said:


> So why exactly does every Mac user hate the Office 2004 for Mac? Is it because of pricing or is it just how it acts and is designed? I mean it had some nice graphical prowess to it last time I saw this demo of it! Also had some nice features like the note taking which could be very useful for university students! Anyone can explain to me why it sucks!
> 
> Thanks!



I don't hate it, but I consider that a descent word processor should be included in an iMac (or a MacBook), like iLife is included. This is what makes the difference with a PC.


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 4, 2006)

chevy said:


> I don't hate it, but I consider that a descent word processor should be included in an iMac (or a MacBook), like iLife is included. This is what makes the difference with a PC.



I agree with that, I mean most probably I will not use that many of those programs that come with iLife but as for a word processor being bundled with them it would be awesome! I mean Apple already makes an awesome OS now how about a good decent word processing app?


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## maz94protege (Dec 4, 2006)

iWORK doenst come on the new macbooks, i figured this out when i got mine. but thats no biggie, Search the net for a good deal on OFFICE and/or goto the store to pick it up. I got 2004 Office for Mac for next to nothing from an online store.  Or just take an older install disc and take the iWORK/APPLEWORK off it.

ever try that?


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 4, 2006)

maz94protege said:


> iWORK doenst come on the new macbooks, i figured this out when i got mine. but thats no biggie, Search the net for a good deal on OFFICE and/or goto the store to pick it up. I got 2004 Office for Mac for next to nothing from an online store.  Or just take an older install disc and take the iWORK/APPLEWORK off it.
> 
> ever try that?



Wait what do you mean by take iWORK/APPLEWORK of it? As in rip the files of the disc lol? Oh and I see you bought Office for Mac, so how do you think of it! I mean a lot of people are not happy with it and favour NeoOffice and such over it! What are your thoughts?


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 4, 2006)

i don't think anyone actually said NeoOffice is better than MS Office.  because it isn't. not really in any way other than price/value for money

MS Office is the most powerful, well rounded and finished piece of productivity software there is.

i think people just resent how untouchable it is.

the thread where people were slagging it off was populated by the minority of people that didn't like it.  rest assured, the majority of people use and praise office.

i personally, as a graphic designer find it too patronising, i prefer to use more pro-end layout tools, like illustrator or InDesign, as i don't do much in the way of lengthy word processing, but i do a lot of text around artwork, which word is quite restrictive with, and awlways has been (win + mac)


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## Bio-Gene (Dec 4, 2006)

Oh so then I was write when I thought it was very powerful! I was amazed actually why a few people were claiming that it was poor and slow! I can understand that because of the Intel chip but then surely when it was on a PowerPC it shouldn't have been! The thing is I like how it is made for Mac, way better looking than the one on Windows!

So Lt. Major Burns you are a graphic designer eh! What do you actually design for? Games or software or are you still in school?


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 4, 2006)

neither, i design for print, web and video.  some of my work can be seen at http://anotherwebsite.net, although that site will be gutted and replaced soon.  it's not toatlly indicative of my current work, but it'll do for now....


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## middigit (Dec 4, 2006)

some nice work you got there LT, i couldn't resist a peak


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## Lt Major Burns (Dec 4, 2006)

ah cheers.  it was never meant to be private...


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