# Anyone Here Design and Layout ANy CHildren's Books?



## esteban (Nov 25, 2006)

My subject line about says it all. I have some questions I need to ask an experienced children's book designer and page layout artist.

Thank you.

Steve Tiano

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Stephen Tiano, Book Designer & Page Composition Specialist
tel. & fax: 631/284/3842
cell: 631/764/2487
email: stiano@optonline.net
iChat screen name: stephentiano@mac.com
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## jonpb (Nov 25, 2006)

If it's a layout-related issue, I may be able to help -I'm a graphic designer. If it's content related, my girl is a Kindergarten teacher and may be of assistance. If it's funding or publishing, you're on your own 

~J


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## esteban (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks so much for responding, Jon. Here's the sitch ...

I've worked exclusively on books for adults--textbooks, academic stuff, general trade--doing both design and layout. (I find, actually, that I'm a bit of a mercenary and prefer layout alone, because it's faster if I'm provided a template, there's no design debate, less back-and-forth, and quicker paydays.)

Anyway, after posting on some lists and forums about my interest in working on my first children's books, someone emailed me and asked for a bid. I set out to put one together, whereupon it hit me that what I price for my usual work just isn't relevant to children's books.

Just for interior page layout (which includes sizing and placing provided art), I typically get from $7 to $24 per page, plus an hourly rate for corrections and author's changes after the initial layout. The lower end can be for general trade; the higher for math books. So, for instance, it's not unusual to receive $3,000 to lay out a 300-page book (including that corrections phase of the project) where I've been provided the template.

When it comes to doing, say, a 32-page children's book, $2,600 just for the layout--after all, they're already paying an illustrator for what is really the heart of the project after the words--is absurd. But $10 per page doesn't exactly thrill me either.

And I'm loathe to quote hourly rates because, when I started freelancing some years ago, the IRS used to look at hourly rates as proof you weren't an independent contractor. Additionally, never having done a children's book, an hourly rate doesn't produce a bid, since I can't confidently say how long something I've never done will take.

Can you shed some light on how such pricing typically goes for children's books?

Thank you.

Steve Tiano

======================================
Stephen Tiano, Book Designer & Page Composition Specialist
tel. & fax: 631/284/3842
cell: 631/764/2487
email: stiano@optonline.net
iChat screen name: stephentiano@mac.com
======================================


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## jonpb (Nov 25, 2006)

Unfortunately, I have no experience pricing specifically for children's books, but (depending on the demographic your book is for), can assume a number of variables that will affect my pricing:

Layout. Typically, a book geared for younger readers has less text, while emphasis is given to the illustrations. A templated approach may be able to be used here, with minor adjustments made depending on circumstance.

Text/copy. I assume this is provided? Again, formatting can again be applied via an initial template, with minor adjustments being made as needed.

Never having done such a job myself, I would approach the situation based on an estimate of how much time an implementation would take based off an initial layout idea. I'd look at the number of hours this layout would take and base my flat-rate off of that. The unfortunate thing here is that being unfamiliar with the type of project makes this a learning circumstance -you'll be more able to predict potential rough spots in the future, but may have to go through the process of 'learning by example' now.

I'd also be clear on the expectation and state specifically what your role will be -it sounds like you have this down already:


> Just for interior page layout (which includes sizing and placing provided art), I typically get from $7 to $24 per page, plus an hourly rate for corrections and author's changes after the initial layout. The lower end can be for general trade; the higher for math books. So, for instance, it's not unusual to receive $3,000 to lay out a 300-page book (including that corrections phase of the project) where I've been provided the template.



Remember that the content you'll be dealing with here will be less complex, and a workable solution can be more quickly applied (ex: if you're getting $10 an hour, but a requested change is taking 30 -40 min, it becomes a more attractive rate, as you're padding your time, but offering an attractive rate to the client).

All this is easier if you know how much copy you're dealing with and have seen the illustrations -I wouldn't even begin an estimate until I've seen those.

I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance, but I hope was able to help shed some light on the situation. Best of luck,

Regards,

~jon

PS: I'm not sure how familiar you are with children's book designs, so I'd research those as well (which I'm sure you've done/are doing already). Check out Kate Greenaway, Ezra Jack Keats, and Chris Raschka... great stuff.


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## esteban (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks, Jon. Yeah, I've been thru pretty much the issues you mention. It's just a question of how long stuff would take. The art's not going to be ready till April, but the publisher wants a bid now. So there's some guesswork going to be involved. And, too, tho I haven't ever done any children's books, I've been doing book design and page comp work since 1990, so I've earned the right not to take a bath on any project--even a first-timer. But, of course, I'm not looking to soak the (potential) client. I'm zeroing in on a price, but I'm still not comfortable yet stating it.

Steve Tiano


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