# The *book buyer's dillema...



## AdmiralAK (Dec 23, 2003)

Aaaaalll right...
Here's the situation:
G3 blue and white at home working great, although I find the need to be mobile more and more, and seeing how my G3 is a tower and cant move this is a problem. I still want to keep my G3 but I am looking for a new primary device.

my options?
iBook G4
Pros:G4 processor, nice look, enough memory for now, bluetooth (  )
Cons: Memory max out at 640MB, no superdrive, no backlit keyboard

powerbook G4
Pros: backlit keyboard, higher resolution, PCMCIA slot, memory up to 2GB, superdrive
Cons: No bluetooth, price (ouch)


I really need bluetooth, but I do not want to be limited to a no DVD-R capability and dont want to be limited to 640MB of memory (my G3 has 702 in it now).  Do you think I should wait and see what comes down the road in the near future (PB with bluetooth?) or just say to hell with it and buy a PB and a BT adapter (pain in the derriere) ?


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## bobw (Dec 23, 2003)

*Cons: No Bluetooth*

 Bluetooth is built-in to every new PowerBook G4 model.


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## Cheryl (Dec 23, 2003)

While the iBook is made with the clutz in mind, the PowerBook is probably more of what you need.


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## RacerX (Dec 23, 2003)

Many of my clients have been very happy with the 14" iBooks (even the G3 versions). I would point out that Apple's maximum memory for their systems is based on what is currently available in the way of memory. Apple said that my PowerBook Wallstreet would have a maximum memory of 192 MB... I have 512 MB installed on mine right now.

It'll always be a combination of budget and needs when you pick a system. For me (and my budget) my old Wallstreet was great. I put money into it as I had it and I haven't felt any burning need to buy a new system (the G4/500 upgrade eliminated our plans for an eMac by filling almost all of our needs... except in the area of games, but we don't make room in our budget to spend that kind of money on games).

The current 15" PowerBooks seems to be the best for usability and portability (they were having display problems in the early versions), while the 14" iBooks seem like they would be the best value verses there usability and portability.


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## Giaguara (Dec 23, 2003)

Powerbook may probably keep you happier longer.  all g4 pbs have bluetooth .. and ram - you may want to later upgrade your ram. 

I'm sure the g4 iBook satisfies many many users .. but PB sound what you really want. If you'll use the mac for lets say 2 years longer you'd use the iBook, the price/year will be lower ..


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## edX (Dec 23, 2003)

Hi Tolya!! i hope all is well with you. i just wanted to remind you that MWSF is only 2 weeks away and any changes to the offerings will come out then. seems worth waiting to see if anything happens. it almost always does, even if it's something minor.


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 23, 2003)

GADZOOKS!!!!!!
they DO have built in bluetooth?! WOW man I am almost sold! (I need to look at more literature).

The other thing that I am looking at is screen size. 12" or 14/15" ? I am using a G3 iBook here at work which I can take home overnight if work needs to be done and I like the form factor of it. My non-paying-friends and relatives (i.e. not the ones making the purchase) throw in their 2 cents about 12" being too small. What do you guys think?

Gaming is also part of my thinking, given that I cannot play any games on my G3 since I am either not home (@ significant other's house) or the games that I have interest in require at least an 800Mhz processor (G3 at home = 350Mhz) - this isn't my main concern though. Now that I know that BT is on the powerbook I would be quite happy qith a 12" one  

alllright, now, memory, whatever model I buy, I do not want to buy apple memory since it is usually more expensive than going out to buy some other reputable memory online. I have never owned a laptop. On a desktop I can open-em up, perform my surgery and get done in no time. In laptops how easy is it to perform such operations on my own?


last but not least...now I can install all those OSes on a powerbook and VPC and mock my PC using friends hehehehe ;-)


** amendments **
I always try to buy a little higher up that my needs because I have noticed that I grow in my computing needs. When I got my first perfoma I bought a bottom feeder. Just a 2X CD-ROM and a floppy, 250MB HD, 68040 with no FPU. 2 years into using it it was already kinda getting outdated (gen 1 PPCs were out at the time I bought my performa). By the time 4 years had passed I had bought an external zip drive to try to have more space, I had programs that were slow, things I could not install due to space concern and so on 

When I bought my G4 almost 5 years ago I bought a step up, granted I bought a CD-RW (which has SCSI probs that I need to fix) and added some memory, but other than that it still chugs along. I never thought I would be using DVDs as I do (man those have kicked in, cant even find VHS tapes any more, lol) - got quite a few USB peripherals, really taking advantage of the built in ethernet (which I did not have on my performa), it's been great 

on the laptop I would like to get one with a superdrive to try my hand at some movie making ;-), admitedly though this is not my number one priority.


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 23, 2003)

Ed!
My old friend! long time no see! gotta chat sometime to catch up on things 
Macworld was also on my mind that is why any purchase that I will make is probably going to be in the summer - I think that doing some research into things prior to buying is a good thing ;-)  six months outta do the trick 


My old mac G3 is probably going to become a fileserv for my laptop and my girlfriend's PC. a sun machine might be coming into the family in january (probably a webserv here at work that I will own.)


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## Giaguara (Dec 23, 2003)

Definitely wait for MWSF, Steve tends to have rabbits in his hat .. 
12" too small? I love my 12" ...


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 23, 2003)

Giaguara you're my new best friend ;-)


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Dec 23, 2003)

PowerBook.  I've been struggling with the same dilemma, and I've settled on a 12" PowerBook.  I was originally going to get the 15", but decided that the 12" satisfied every need I have and I wouldn't be working on it extensively enough (more than 3 or 4 hours a day) to have the size of the screen be much of an issue.  The fact that it's roughly the same size as an 8.5"x11" sheet of paper sold me.  I can get a 1 GHz G4 processor, ability to upgrade to 1.25 GB of RAM (with a 1 GB SO-DIMM module, kinda pricey, but still...) a fairly large hard drive AND a SuperDrive all in one package and it's small enough to tote around in the smallest of bags.  With or without an educational discount, it's on par with a decently-configured 1.6 GHz G5 and still under $2000.

I'd be using this machine primarily at school, so that would entail working on elf-sized desks or in lecture halls with no table space as well as sitting out under a tree somewhere on campus computing away.  The small form factor would be perfect for this.  If I were purchasing the PowerBook as a sort-of temporary desktop replacement or would be using it mostly at home or work, I would get the 15" (or the 17" if I won the lottery) since it replicates a desktop quite well and has a big monitor to boot.  Portability won me over, though.

I've heard some bad stories about the iBooks, and with a class-action lawsuit in the makings over the quality of the motherboard (http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4493), I'd rather get the PowerBook.  I've heard nothing but good things about them.


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## btoneill (Dec 23, 2003)

Rember the 12" and 14" iBooks have the same resolution, 1024x768. It's just a matter of if you have a problem with the fonts being smaller, if you don't, it's the same screen realestate. And, when you're at home, just hook up a monitor/keyboard/mouse, then the screen size becomes a non-issue. Having the smaller one is much nicer for traveling too. Now, if you're comparing the 12" to the 15.4", you do get more real estate, and if you can afford it, I'd go that route, I really don't see much benefit to the 12" powerbook anymore save for the DVD-R drive.

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 23, 2003)

RAM is an other thing, btoneill .. a 12" pb can hold still those 1,25 gb of RAM compared to 640 mb of (any) ibook. It may be useful later, when you'll want more speed etc.


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## Randman (Dec 24, 2003)

A PowerBook will always trump an iBook except for cost. But don't let that be the only thing to sway you. I just got a G4 iBook, 1Ghz, 60gb hard drive and max ram, airport, bt, etc. It's a fine machine, even better than many G3 Towers at work (I'm n editor and designer). It runs smooth (I use Quark, PhotoShop and InDesign, among others. If my Graphite Clamshell 366 can run them fine, the 1 Ghz can. It's very fast (just got it so I'm running tests on it now, will post results in a week or so).
  and I got a very good deal on it. About US$1,000 less than a comprable PB.
   I was leaning towards the PB but the price was too good to pass up. This will be a fine machine until I get a G5 PowerBook down the line.   Cheers


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## Hypernate (Dec 24, 2003)

Why is is that the iBook can only handle 640mb RAM? I know it has the 128mb built - in, and takes up to the 512mb chip, but aren't there 1gb PC2100 now?

I am waiting for my 512 chip to arrive. I ordered it with my computer, but they sent me PC100. I had to return it to Apple.


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## Arden (Dec 24, 2003)

Nate, if you can fit a 1 GB RAM stick into an iBook, then it'll go up to 1 1/8 GB of RAM.  Otherwise, you're stuck at 640 (soldered 128 + additional 512) MB.

Admiral, the best thing for you to do is to drive to your nearest Apple retailer and try the Books out.  The last time I went to CompUSA and browsed, they had all 3 AlBooks (plus a 15" TiBook) set up side-by-side.  In that arena, the 12" didn't seem as small, nor the 17" as large, as people make them out to be.  Maybe it was the widescreen aspect ratio, or maybe I was delusional at the time (not likely).  But I would take the 17" any day, considering all you get with it.

One advantage that the iBooks have over the PB's is that the cases are made out of plastic instead of painted metal.  Not only does this resist scratching better, but they are slightly more durable (like if you drop one).  Just something to consider.  I would definitely not recommend dropping any laptop, unless it runs Windows.


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 24, 2003)

Having a girlfriend that lives near a microcenter AND near an applestore gives me lots of opportunities to go in and gauk anytime that I feel like it lol. I have played with all 3 G4 iBooks and all 3 powerbook 

I like the color of the G3 ibook but not the G4 ones. It's a bit too white. The TiBooks have a nice shell  seems less resistant to dirt. I use a 12" iBook G3 (borrowed from work) for these next few days and I like the form factor. my boss has a 17" widescreen. I love it! somehow though I feel that it might be a pain to transport on a daily basis. My boss does it so I suppose it's doable 


How about upgrades?
How easy is it to add more memory?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Dec 24, 2003)

Upgrades are a snap if you're talking about RAM for either machine.  Open the cover or pop up the keyboard, remove the shield, pop in the RAM, close her up.  Done.

The hard drives in the PowerBooks are easier to replace than the hard drives in the iBooks... I hear that replacing the hard drive in an iBook is a nightmare and I wouldn't attempt it unless I didn't mind screwing up my iBook.


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## chevy (Dec 24, 2003)

very simple:

if you have enough money to ask, it means you have enough to afford the PB... so go for it !


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## bobw (Dec 24, 2003)

*My boss does it so I suppose it's doable*

 He does it to let you know he IS the boss


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 24, 2003)

LOL --- the boss retired this week though 
man... I wish I were making his money - 17" I would buy - yes I would


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## Arden (Dec 24, 2003)

AdmiralAK said:
			
		

> man... I wish I were making his money


We all do, my friend.


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## Randman (Dec 25, 2003)

17 would be fine if you were to use it as a home station. I think carrying it around would be a bit of a pain.


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 25, 2003)

Randman that is why I am thinking more or less a 12" or maaaaaybe a 15"
I have a G3 at home now which I rarely see  - it's like the relative you see only on holidays LOL


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## Randman (Dec 25, 2003)

:d


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## CP-Man (Dec 26, 2003)

Hehe, all my first three posts on this forum is related to pimping the 12" PB and I must say it rocks! I do have the Rev A one so the Rev B can only be better. They fixed the heatproblem (which I don´t really see as  problem) and the Rev B also has DVI and a better graphics chipset.

As for the formfactor, the 12" is the right size if you want to carry it around a lot. 0.5-0.6 Kg may not seem like much but after carrying around for an hour or more you wish it wan´t there. You basically get all the features from the larger models except clockspeed (1 Ghz 512 kB cache is enough for most things anyway), memory (unless you´re a serious movie editor 1,25 GB will be enough as long as the rest of the machine keeps up) and resolution/screensize. The resolution is a bit of a turnoff sometimes and yes, sometimes 12" is slightly too small but i´ve done lighter photoshopping in without trouble and with general use, it´s not a problem.

I´d say go for the 12", you won´t be disappointed =)


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 31, 2003)

COOOOL 
Well, I think I have made up my mind 
Now I will just wait for MW in july (or is it june?) and I will start saving up money


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## Randman (Dec 31, 2003)

And the choice is...  ?


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## pds (Jan 1, 2004)

I had a 14 inch iBook and I loved the real estate. Then someone whom I still love spilled something on it and it shrunk! (I had the choice of a $600+ repair or moving to a 12 inch. I took the latter to avoid a month or more without machine.)

I thought I'd suffer, but in fact, I like the 12 inch better. The resolution is the same, so the same stuff fits on the screen. I can't watch dvd's on the run anymore, (lost the superdrive in the changeover) but wait... I never did that anyway!


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 2, 2004)

I think I will go with the 12" powerbook, 512MB RAM, Superdrive with  Airport Extreme and  80GB HD. I think that if I need more RAM I could always save up and buy some eventually.
There is a small chance of going with the 15" (same specs).

What do you guys think is better? the NVIDIA that is on the 12" or the ATI on the 15" ?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 2, 2004)

I would think that the 64MB ATi in the 15" would stomp the 32MB NVIDIA.

I'm having the same dilemma, and what it comes down to is portability vs. graphics power.  If you intend on using the PowerBook for anything other than light computing around a campus or wherever, go with the 15".  You'll be happier with the screen size and power of the 15".  If portability is the main factor, go with the 12".  That's going to make my decision for me.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 2, 2004)

Well... this is my big dillema...
The laptop will be my main machine for all (work, school, play, entertainment) but it will also be the thing that I carry around with me every single day to the office, then the the classroom, then back home (and next morning the cycle continues again) lol.

I looooove the 12" but I worry that graphics wise it will be a problem in the not-so-distant future  the screen size is not the issue, it is the graphics card 
I already have a display both at work and home to plug in as an extra monitor for the laptop when I do buy one


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 3, 2004)

I have been reading about lawsuits concerning iBooks (which I am not getting) and about Macworld returning three 15" powerbooks that they had bought for testing purposed back to apple because of "problems".
\
What is the deal? is this a bad time to buy?


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## pds (Jan 4, 2004)

Yeah, I've been looking at that too, that seems to be connected to the shrinking of my iBook. Motherboard failure at 18 months.. yuck! I want to hear that they get it fixed and then break mine at 9 months. ;(


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 4, 2004)

oh oh....
My track record with macs has been great thus far. Performa rocked (took it appart yesterday actually, now its gone forever ), G3 still going strong, and I would hate to have a bad powerbook ruin my experience. I was planning on ordering something on wednesday this week...should I wait?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 4, 2004)

Definitely wait until after MWSF.  You never know what they'll release, and as you all well know, if they bump the speed/features of any PowerBook or desktop, the price will remain relatively the same.  Better safe than sorry.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 4, 2004)

isnt macworld on january 6th? I was going to make a purchase one day after macworld


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## Arden (Jan 5, 2004)

You should wait a few days after MWSF, maybe a week, to make sure that anything Apple announces gets going smoothly.

Apple released the G4 iBooks fairly recently, very close to the date of MWSF, which is an indicator that something is coming.  Whatever you do, definitely wait until Wednesday at the earliest.


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## infinii (Jan 6, 2004)

I too was waiting for today's keynote before ordering my 15" PB.

Well now that the keynote has come and disappointed...there are murmurs amongst the crowd that apple might introduce/announce something on the 20th Anniversary (later this month) or even the Superbowl.

What a crock!

I guess I'm going to order my PB this week and pray there are no updates until next year with a G5 PB.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 10, 2004)

I ordered mine on thursday - it shipped and it coming on tuesday 

15" PB with Airport extreme + Bluetooth
1.25Ghz
80GB HD
512MB RAM

I am so excited! DO you think I will get the newest iLife with garage band in it?


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## Arden (Jan 10, 2004)

Hopefully, though it's not set to ship until the 16th... GB is pretty sweet, that would be great to get it with your new computer before it ships.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 10, 2004)

It would rock 
If not...maybe I can convince my department to get me  a copy of the new iLife (the have bought previous versions of iLife) lol


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## hulkaros (Jan 11, 2004)

Congrats for your new PowerBook AdmiralAK!  Let us know how much you like it!  Personally, I love my TiBook but I think in the not so distant future I will swap it for a 12" PowerBook, now that I have the Dual G5 and all 

Let us know how what gives!


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 11, 2004)

Thanks 
Now I am looking around for a good laptop bad -- any suggestions?
I have to drop by HelMUG to let others know of the good news lol


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## hulkaros (Jan 12, 2004)




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