# former mac user afraid



## AlQuemist (Feb 13, 2003)

Welll... I used to be a suportive mac user until osx, which I chose to use from the first day it came out. I saw my mac loose all its power with that os (I used to think that if linux was super fast on a 486 pc, osx -another unix like os- would be ligthing fast on my pismo), as well as my unsuported scsi cd recorder, scanner and webcam. 

I couldn't afford to buy a new mac, a new scanner, a new cd recorder and a new webcam, so I build my pc. For a fraction of the cost of a new mac. Despite all of the Micros***t things we all know, I'm very happy with what I have: complete database connectivity for my database driven websites, photoshop goes all the fast I need, the system is stable (no blue screens, etc...). I only miss two things from osx, which are multitasking (which feels like going back to os9, nothing I can do to workout that) , and the dock (but I've found and excellent replacement for that gadget).

But now I'm afraid... I'm afraid to drop here from time to time and see how fanatical and violent more and more mac users are becoming. I go to pc stores and when talking of mac nobody tells me they are sh*t, as we (when I was a mac fanatic) sistematically do with pcs...

That's dangerous, and doesn't put the mac world on a good level. As long as we can't face all the faces of a same reality (and not simply stick with one or other part of it), the world won't be a better place.

This lines were written on a pc... I think I still think different, besides what hardware or os I use...


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## ex2bot (Feb 13, 2003)

Whoa. It sounds as if thugs are lurking in the shadows around here!

I was talking to a pc store clerk about my Mac. He said he loves games too much to use a Mac. I said, "Have you tried Playstation2?"


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## uoba (Feb 13, 2003)

Oh...

er...

I don't think the world would be a much different place if we did stop bitching about PCs.... so we might as well carry on.


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## BitWit (Feb 13, 2003)

I work all day in MacOS9, X, and Windows 2000.

At the risk of getting berated, here's my general assessment:

Unless you develop graphics (print especially) or music or movies for a living, a PC will be fine, in fact better for most tasks...especially Excel. Using Linux is Thinking Different in my book.


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## serpicolugnut (Feb 13, 2003)

I don't think anybody is going to beat up on you(verbally, at least) if you keep your anti-mac opinions to yourself. 

This forum is called Mac OS X  for a reason. The people here are Mac OS X enthusiasts. It's our OS of choice. I'm not sure what you would have to discuss here since you are no longer an OS X user, but so long as you're not bashing our platform and spouting off about how great you think Windows is, I'm sure you'll be OK.

As for your asertion that most Windows users don't bash the Mac, well, that might be the case in Saint Tropez, but here in the US, it is not. While it has mellowed over the years, all you need to do to experience anti Mac fanaticism is to go down to a CompUSA, stand in the middle of the store, and ask a sales associate for some help. Tell them you want to buy a computer, and you are looking at the Mac. They will immediately rattle off lie after lie about the Mac, and try to steer you straight to a Compaq or HP. It's still very prevalent, and it still puts most Mac users on the defensive.


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## Darkshadow (Feb 13, 2003)

Hmm...not the compUSA near me...they have a Mac section - and will actually point you to it without trying to persuade you differently.

Or maybe I just have that look that says "Don't f**k with me, buddy" - people generally don't try to persuade me on anything.


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## mac-blog (Feb 13, 2003)

AlQuemist,

One question, a little off subject... what would motivate you to post in a Mac forum? You're not a Mac user, so why show up here?

I ask this because I am not a Windows user, and I have never been to a Windows or PC forum. What would be the point?

Seems to me that if you are truly happy with the PC that you are using, you should have no reason to care what anyone else is using. I'm happy using my Mac(s), so why would I take the time to find a Windows forum to post in? It seems pointless.

Like I said, a little off topic. But I think many of us would love to know why you felt the need to post this.


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## andrewxlt1 (Feb 13, 2003)

Funny, im a recent switcher .... but you dont see me trashing pc's now that im a mac user... i just don't get some people


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## Aeronyth (Feb 13, 2003)

People, what AlQuemist posted is not bashing.

If there was any criticism in that post about anything, it was certainly constructive.

Funny how people get so defensive-- A good debater can see both sides of the argument.


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## hulkaros (Feb 13, 2003)

Thank God (no, not Gates or Jobs  ), that the Wintels exist... Because I make a living mostly by fixing their problems and also they help me enjoy one of the best computer platforms around:
-Apple's Titanium 15" PowerBook G4/1GHz/DVD-R

And also, let me work with Duals and stuff  Oh, did I mention that I also use the best that the Dark Side has to offer most of the time, too?

Yep, I know! I earn TOO much money because of the Dark Side   

Thank you M$, Intel, Amd, et al... You are the best


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## BitWit (Feb 13, 2003)

All the platforms have thier strengths and weaknesses. It's how you use them that makes them good or bad.


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## AlQuemist (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mac-blog _
> *AlQuemist,
> 
> One question, a little off subject... what would motivate you to post in a Mac forum? You're not a Mac user, so why show up here?
> ...



Well, as I said, I'm a former Mac user, and I still like to know what is going on the computer world. I remember whan I use to read this forums every day, so I drop by every so an so.

But with time you get to have some perspective about things you used to do or think... And I remember those days when there was no other equivalent in my mind for PC other than junk. And I'm not talking about which platform is better, which one does look better or which one is faster. I'm talking about fanatism and extremes, wich I think help no one... That's what my post was about...


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## Inline_guy (Feb 14, 2003)

Here is my piece.  I just came from the PC world and I do not miss it.  I did not hate it when I was in it, but now looking back I am happy to be out.  The rest of my family uses PC's and I just don't then they run as well (they all use Windows 98).  Maybe Windows XP is different.  But my family is terrified of XP (my mother just knows how to get on ebay).

What astounded me was when they came to visit my mother played with my mac.  And she was no longer scared.  She did not know how to do everything, but what she saw she liked.  

I think that speaks volumes for the mac platform.  That someone as scared as technology and change as my mother can feel "safe" on my mac.

But to each his own.  If you like you PC better than great.  Go for it.  They are cheaper.  But I like my macs and I will stick to them.  And I will not bother going to WindowXP.com and telling them that I really liked my switch.  Because I am secure in my switch.  I now have a happier computer experience.

As for extremes.... well people get passionate about lots of things.  Nothing wrong with that.  Is what they say always true... nope.  Is it always well thought out... nope.  But that is a part of America.  Speak you mind, even if you are wrong.  

What I think is funny though is how you come here and see all the PC bashing and extreme dislike for the PC, and get miffed.  Where as I see nothing but bitching and moaning about Apple here.  I come across much more Apple complaining then PC complaining, and this is a Apple oriented site!  And as you get miffed by the overzealous nature of the PC haters, I get miffed about the baby like attitudes that Apple users have about everything, including having to pay for software!

As for it being only mac thing.  Nope.  I get plenty of heat and irrational hatred from my PC brethren.

You just have to buck up and take what people say with a grain of salt.  Loud people who do not always know what they are talking about, are a part of life.  And if nothing else, at least it keeps it interesting.

Matthew


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## Ugg (Feb 14, 2003)

Well your comments on fanaticism and extremism are certainly topical and did make me think about why I own a mac.  

Apple isn't trying to rule the world, it's only trying to make its corner of it a much nicer place to be.  It would be easy for me to go on and on and extoll the virtues of Apple and I would say that I was only being passionate about the company and its products.  There would be an undercurrent of M$ bashing though.  Is that really and truly fanaticism?  Maybe, but I think that it is difficult to say that one likes something for its own sake.  Why is a sunny day beautiful?  Because it's not raining.

Mac users are passionate.  I would think that living in St. Tropez as you do, you would recognize passion for what it is instead of giving it an ugly name and accusing us of wrongdoing.


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## AlQuemist (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ugg _
> *  I would think that living in St. Tropez as you do, you would recognize passion for what it is instead of giving it an ugly name and accusing us of wrongdoing. *



Again, I'm not trying to start a pc against mac war. I'm not talking about computers, I'm talking about attitudes. And of course the same think I've said can be aplied to many pc user who sistematically discredit other platforms (not only macs).

And as a matter of fact, I live in Saint Tropez in a friends house. I used to have my own company in Spain until a huge world known company decided not to pay anyone anymore; my company went bankrout and I had to sell my house to pay my own debts.


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## mac-blog (Feb 14, 2003)

Again, I still don't see the point in why you came here and why you felt the urge to post.

I, like most Mac users in a PC world, work with Windows daily. Again, I feel no need to seek out a Windows forum of happy Windows users. Further I feel no need to tell them that because they are happy using what makes them happy that they are fanatical or extremist. 

You made the choice that is best for you, we all made the choices that were best for us. Why go out of your way to insult us (I feel being called extremist and fanatical is an insult). You knew what you were doing posting here, you knew what reaction to expect (I sure know what to expect if I posted a remark like yours in a Windows forum).

So again, what would motivate you to post something like that.

Back on topic, what was wrong with your Pismo again? I don't quite see where you had problems with it. I assume it ran Mac OS 9 just fine and that all your peripherals still worked. What would make you spend money on a new system when you had a system that was working fine (faster than any system I currently have). And how much more was it to replace all your software? The fastest cheapest PC in the world today can't run the software I have already invested in... it must have been the same for you. I have on more than a few occasions looked at the true cost of switching (both ways), and have always had a hard time understanding why anyone would want to (either way). If you were truly the Mac user you seem to say that you were, the cost of switching (even if a PC was given to you for free) would have made such a move expensive (compared to sticking with a working system where everything was already paid for).

I hope your friend that you are living with doesn't know that you spent money on a PC rather than paid your debts. I would have problems helping someone who spent money when they didn't truly need to.


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## AlQuemist (Feb 14, 2003)

this is the kind of violence I was talking about. 

I believe my post was an opportunity to have a reflexion, and my post was everything but an insult. You are insulting me on a personal basis.  

As I stated, it's not a matter of computers. This kind of reaction initiates wars. Saddly. Human kind can get this stupid.

I'm not playing this game anymore. I'm just trying to get people to think, not to crunch as you are doing. Life is made of all this details. 

One last think. I don't believe people insult others. I believe people feel insulted by others. Maybe, we shoul all (of course, including me) consider our reaction, because we are responsible of them.  You punch because you feel insulted, NOT because someone has actually done it. I leave you alone with your anger.


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## mac-blog (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AlQuemist _
> *One last think. I don't believe people insult others. I believe people feel insulted by others. Maybe, we shoul all (of course, including me) consider our reaction, because we are responsible of them.  You punch because you feel insulted, NOT because someone has actually done it. I leave you alone with your anger. *



I could not agree with you more. You are perceiving an attacks or "punch" or "violence" where none exist. Further you where expecting it from the start... your opening post contain such descriptions without anyone having said anything to you.

And once again, I must ask: what would motivate you to post here?

You had already set in your mind what our reaction to your post would be. Given that I miss why you are acting surprised or hurt (at your perception... not what we actually said to you). Where you looking for this course of events? Where you trying to cause what you seem to be trying to see this as now? Where you trolling?

I don't ask these questions to hurt you or insult you. I just want to know why you when out of your way to post a post (or series of posts) that you knew from the out set was designed to invoke a reaction (even if you didn't quite get the fanatical, extremist, violent response you seemed to be hoping for). If you have moved on into the happy Windows world, why take the time to look back. Why take the time to post attacks (my perceptions here, though you seem to think so also because you were expecting the same in return)? Why not just go on about your merry Windows using ways and leave us poor Mac users alone to deal with our minority status.

We really didn't need your informed opinion (we can get that same opinion from 90% of the computer using world without having to see it posted in a Mac forum). We didn't need to be called fanatical, extremist, violent... even before any of us had a chance to post no less.

What truly motivated you to post here?


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## Inline_guy (Feb 14, 2003)

AlQ

If from your post you wanted reflection, I gave you just that in my post.  But instead of talking to me about it, or even responding, you go looking for something to get "hurt" about.  Champ you need to grow a thinker skin if what Mac-Blog said to you was "violence."  You say you wanted discussion, but when it comes you cower from it.  

That is a shame.  That leads me to think you did not really want reflection, or you did , but could not handle it when it came.  I think it was an honest mistake on your part.  Many people go looking for a good "dialogue" to only find when they get it, was what they really wanted was just someone to agree with them.

To bad.

Matthew


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## Sirtovin (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AlQuemist _
> *Again, I'm not trying to start a pc against mac war. I'm not talking about computers, I'm talking about attitudes. And of course the same think I've said can be aplied to many pc user who sistematically discredit other platforms (not only macs).
> 
> And as a matter of fact, I live in Saint Tropez in a friends house. I used to have my own company in Spain until a huge world known company decided not to pay anyone anymore; my company went bankrout and I had to sell my house to pay my own debts. *



Based on what you have said... I think you're one of those "Trolls..." Hmmm... Time will tell... 

I could be wrong... but even your name sounds to Trollish... lol...


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## bobw (Feb 14, 2003)

Time to lock up before punches get thrown


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## Sirtovin (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bobw _
> *Time to lock up before punches get thrown  *



amen.


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## Natobasso (Feb 15, 2003)

Why can't we all just get along? 

Here's why I think these "discussions" become "arguments" that are so silly. 

First, here's several definitions of "forum":

n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr) 

1.	a.	The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b.	A public meeting place for open discussion.
c.	A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2.	A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3.	A court of law; a tribunal.

IN ALL THESE CASES the common thread is the free sharing of ideas with "moderation" being either/or a moderator (thank you for keeping the peace!) and/or by not letting personal feelings get in the way of beliefs. One of the hardest things for humans to do is to use our brains to work our issues in a forum while simultaneously ignoring our "fight or flight" response when our deeply held beliefs are challenged. We have only been "civilized" for a short part of our existence (10,000 years or so) and are still shedding our neanderthal reactions to issues.

The Mac/PC dilemma isn't an issue on a par with world hunger or peace in the middle east, people. But we all care about computersALL types computersand thats why we are here. If we didnt care we wouldnt post at all. This forum is for anyone who gives a rat's a** about computers and I welcome any and ALL opinions. Even if someone here reads this and thinks I am full of s**t. 

Try to keep all this in mind before you think someone hates YOU because you like or dont like a Mac or PC. Its just their opinion, not a personal attack. 

For the record, I think PCs suck mainly because the apps Microsoft writes for it are horribly out of date and so menu driven you have to go through 10 sub menus just to get to the darn caculator let alone do anything more complicated than that. Why do you think theres so much more money in fixing PCs than Macs?  It seems like they are built to fail. 

But thats just my opinion, take it or leave it, and I thank you in advance for being civilized to each other in this forum.


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## MDLarson (Feb 15, 2003)

Well, for those of you who wonder why AlQuemist stopped in when he's no longer a Mac user, maybe I can help explain.  You see, I am a frequenter of SysOpt.com.  The site is all about "system optimization," and is very build-your-own-PC oriented.  The Mac doesn't get mentioned too much, except negatively.

My main reason for going there is quite simply to defend Macs.  I'm sick of hearing the stupidity of Apple bashing and I enjoy correcting the bashers.  (I suggest going over there and search for all threads I've been involved in.)

But I also go there because, as a Mac user, I feel it is important to be *aware* of the computer world in general.  One thing I've noticed in particular is that there is as much strife over there as here, only the arguments are USB vs. Parallel, or Intel vs. AMD.

There's also a lot of intelligent folks over there that have explained why they don't do Macintosh, and that's cool with me.


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## Inline_guy (Feb 16, 2003)

It might just be me, but I really didn't think this thread was that heated.  But that is one of the things about communicating through a forum.  It is hard to know how the person means what they say without the inflection in their voice.  Add to the mix that some people come from different countries, and the potential for misunderstandings is pretty great.

Regardless, I was not heated writing my post, and I hope it did not come across that way.

Matthew


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## Gunk (Feb 19, 2003)

I hope your friend that you are living with doesn't know that you spent money on a PC rather than paid your debts. I would have problems helping someone who spent money when they didn't truly need to.


I think this is why he got offended.  It is a personal attack on the guy decision making process.  While it may a valid curiosity, it does seem a bit antagonistic.  It is unfortunate, the thread died, I was interested in the dialogue.  I think "alchemisits" point was to...well...I'm not reall sure, but I was curious how he would respond.  Maybe he was trying to point out that he could fell no pain at the loss of a particular OS.  That the switch will work both ways, and it does.  

I myself work (play) within both PC and MAC.  I'm mostly on MAC because of the greater strength of it compared to my PC (Beige G4 533/768 RAM ~ Compaq Presario 266 mhtz 196 RAM)  But let me get a big fast cheap PC and we'll see.  

I also personally like the interface and stablitity of MAC OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.1.5 (little slow and clunky for decent productivity because of old 66mhtz bus on the Beige) on my MAC, but I've not had a chance to play with XP.

Anyway the point is, it's too bad the moderator had to step in and too bad that flow was halted, I WAS curious Alchemist's intentions and I think the other guy was egging him on/into his underlying intentions.

One final thing - "Al" said he had just lost his company due to non payment, with this in mind, who wouldn't be a little tender toward personal integrity questions.  Especially in relation to a friendship and the inplication that he was lying/using his friend.  I think those implications are coupled with a great deal of assumptions..ie: did he buy the computer/was it given to him/ it could've been his freinds computer/could've been his partner/he sold his house to pay his debts and maybe he's building his life back up.  You see the many unknowns here?  It could go on and on.

Oh well, yet another lesson for us all.


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## Buckey (Feb 19, 2003)

Well, as far as switching, I gave my sister my old iMac loaded with OS X at Christmas time.  Sure it runs relatively slow being a G3 233 but from her point of view it is great.  All she needs if for is to download photos from her Coolpix camera, save them to a CD or send them to be printed to Ofoto or the like.

Without bashing the PC platform, let me just say some people get it and some don't.  My sister sort of got the hang of her PC after seven years but kept calling me for help.  I only got one call since.  First to thank me and then to ask how to burn a CD.  That took ten minutes.  Other than that, everything just works and she loves it.


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## fryke (Feb 20, 2003)

I make a strange assumption here: The Mac is simply the better solution for people who want actual work (or entertainment) done. And strange enough: They're mostly female. Men want to tinker with soft- AND hardware of computers more than women (I know, Giaguara, you're an exception to the rule ). So the best targets for switching are women. They're usually frustrated by their Windows experiences...


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## Inline_guy (Feb 20, 2003)

Fryke I think there is a little truth to what you say.  One of the reasons I never liked macs before my iMac was because TO ME the OS seemed baby-fied!  You know.  Then when I saw Aqua I was like wow.  Then I heard it was UNIX and I was double wow.  To me it was the best of both worlds.  Easy to use OS for everyone, but the fun of UNIX to play with.

Matthew


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