# geeks vs. computer users



## edX (Nov 24, 2002)

in the year that i have hung out around here i have come to notice the distinctions between computer users and geeks. the surprising thing about this is that up until i visited here, i've never met a mac geek before. power users, yes, true geeks, no. and the reason is because macs have traditionally been the computer for idiots. having been a mac user for almost 20 years, you must understand i say this lovingly and without malice. mac owners have always been computer users. they own macs because they're easy to use, easy to fix and almost impossible to break. they get work done, they provide some play time and then they move on with their lives. go outside and hike, play some ball, watch a movie, go to the bar and try to score, read a book. anything but think about their computer some more. 

for computer users, the mac sits on its desk or a table or wherever is the most convient place to access it when you need or want to. for geeks, whole rooms have to be dedicated to enshrine the objects of their true passions. computer users buy a computer that works like they expect it to and take it home, set it up, and use it. they don't think about things like updates and shareware and such until someone else tells them to - either thru a product announcement, requirements for the latest software they bought or the tech support guy who says it will fix the problem they've been having. geeks thrive on having the latest of everything before it is released, even if that means risking screwing up everything they already have working.

computer users call somebody to fix their computer and eventually learn to take care of the common problems themselves. they don't spend days reading specs and comparing caches. they occassionalloy cuss at their computers, but mostly because it looks silly to be cussing at yourself. geeks call somebody else as a last resort. only after they've changed every component they can reach and reformatted a dozen times. or at least checked with other geeks at the forums and chat rooms. geeks know every name of every part of every computer off the tops of their heads. they know the codenames and compatibilities and what cards fit in which slots and, well they know more about that kind of stuff than i even know enough about to guess what it is. i get the feeling sometime that they would get excited to find out the shoe size of the person who did the final inspection of their cpu chip. 

i'm sure this list could go on and on, but what's the point. you know which you are by now. you probably knew before you opened this thread. but i didn't know till i found this site. my position here has always been - "mac user". i know what i know from experience that includes many trials and tribulations. but using a mac is practiaclly second nature to me. or was before os x. it took me a while to learn the new approach - the new attitude if you will. and it is this new attitude that has attracted all the geeks to macs. all the 'nixers and switchers and self proclaimed computer experts. these new mac geeks speak a different language than me. they see the computer in very different ways than i do. still, i have benefitted immensely from their help. and i think a few of them have benefitted from mine since despite all the nix, it's still a mac thing. 

but at some points in some discussions i have to step back and realize that i am taking to geeks, not computer using freaks like myself. we see the world from different points of view that aren't going to be changed by a forum discussion. probably not even from face to face encounters unless they were my clients in therapy and then i might be able to lead them to new sources of their own light, but that's a different thing. and the thing i find so frustrating about geeks, is their disdain for computer users. people who just want things to work are beneath them. people who don't care about the biggest and fastest cpu chip are ignorant in their eyes.  of course, these ultra geeks are not real big on social skills anyway, so being concerned about others isn't high on their list. what matters is being right about computer stuff. (yes, 'stuff' is one of the more modern technical terms i do know.)

at any rate, my question is this, how do the mac faithful communicate with the new macgeeks, or igeeks? At what point do we get them to understand that macs are what we made them thru years of buying the product and loving what we bought? it was never about mhz, ghz, cache size, etc. it was about a computer that did what you wanted it to, didn't break down every month and simple enough a grown man could fix it.

where is this going, i'm not real sure. i just know that while i tend to like mac users, i'm not so sure that some of our new osx fans are "mac users'. they're snobby geeks who are just thrilled to finally have some eye candy to go with their terminal commands. and once they got that, all they can do is whine about all they gave up to get it.  for some reason or another i don't feel very sorry for them. to quote an old hippie saying, "you're either on the bus or off the bus". there is no standing at the door of the bus and telling the driver how to drive. if you don't like the trip, go back to your pc. w

i'm sorry if i've offended anybody. but sometimes i feel real offended by the way some people here treat my views on real world computer use vs. their super tech knowledge. those of you have felt like i was an online friend can rest assured this is not aimed at you - no matter how geeeky you are  . your social skills and reasoning powers have been shown to be fine. for the rest of you, computer users and geeks alike, maybe think about how we can make this forum and our discussions a little more inclusive of both sides, without having to belittle each other.

i'm sure i've said some things here that will be misinterpretted. i'm sure i've said things here that don't say enough. i'm sure i've messed up what i really wanted to communicate in the first place, but at least i started. this has been a long time building up for me and tonite i had the time and the inspiration to start it. maybe i'll have the time to continue it later. maybe you'll take the time to add your perceptions of mac users vs. igeeks. maybe not. 
theed - remember my old habit of always ending a post with a song lyric? 

"does anybody really know what time it is,
does anybody really care?"


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## edX (Nov 24, 2002)

of course nobody will read this anyway because it's in the opinions forum and they only want to be bothered and shoot their opinions aabout stuff off in the news forum. i still don't believe that we had a new member come by and try to be friendly in the cafe and only myself and tormente have responded. talk about lack of social skills.

i should say nobody but macluv will read this, but he is a totally different frustration for me than most of my above post. but i'll save that for later.


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## TommyWillB (Nov 24, 2002)

For me it all comes down to time...

When I'm short of it I look to my Mac as a tool I need to "use" to get something done.

When I have extra time I look at my Mac as something to help me play/learn/grow... That's when the geeky side of me comes out.

I'm happy to say that I've converted my Mom to be an OS X user, but my boyfriend is still clinging to OS 9... I think that's because he's seen me blow things up too many times (always when I was in "geek" mode vs. "user" mode) so he's convinced it is "not ready" for users like him.


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## Sogni (Nov 24, 2002)

Well, I consider myself to be a Computer Geek,
This is basically my story:
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/giannijacklone.html
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/giannijacklone.html

I hated Macs my entire life.
I was a Microsoft Flag Carrier for the longest time.
I got my first computer at age 11 (Tandy 1000 EX)
I purchased my first Windows PC in '94
I BUILT my first PC in '95
I was promoted from "Web Designer" to "IT Manager" for a small ISP/Webhoster in '98 and have been working on all kinds of PCs from Workstations, to Network and Web Servers, to Multi-Processor Intel XEON Servers (heck, build and installed a multi processor XEON Server at a Web Farm and I thought I was in Disneyland! I didn't want to leave!).

I've installed, supported and repaired systems with:
Windows 3.11, NT3, NT4 Workstation, NT4 Server, 95 (a,b,c&gold), 98 (1st&2nd Editions), ME, 2000 Pro, 2000 Server, 2000 Advanced Server, XP Pro, RedHat Linux 5.2 through 7.1 and had my hand in a few Caldera Distros (altho my knowledge is very limited on the Linux side - I don't do programing).

So you can imagine that I greatly resent and try not to take it personally when people say that I know nothing of PCs because I'm a "Mac Lover"... they don't know me very well - do they? 

You can say I'm a Geek! With a resume like that, what else can you call me? 


As far as caring about the fastest MHZs, biggest Cache, etc...
The first question I ask is, "what are you going to use it for?"

Hmmm... this is a surprise, most people I talk to do NOT need the fastest or biggest at all...

Some even realized they where happier with a Mac.

A friend's wife was in shock when I was talking Macs with two of my friends "I thought you where a PC Guy" - and she nearly fainted when her husband (Mac user since the beginning) turned to her, paused, and said "He HAS a Mac and has been using one for a year now! Hell he has a better one that all of ours combined" lol 

Oh heck, I no longer know where I'm going with this either! It just feels so good! Just like my Mac! 

Oh but I still love PCs and Microsoft, I now have my own business because of them!


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## Izzy (Nov 24, 2002)

I know exactly where you are coming from Ed...and I totally agree with you.  I've been a mac user my entire computer functioning life, but I never took it any further than that.  Sure I tell all of my friends about it, and everyone that knows me knows that I use Macs, but I've never gotten so into it that I've lost perspective.  

Computers remain a tool to get work done and make life a little more bearable.  We have fun with them and spend a lot of our free time using them, but when all the chips are laid down, there are priorities in life that supercede this tech life.  I think that's what a lot of these "computer geeks" don't understand...that for some people the computer isn't the end-all meaning of life.  Someone can love their computer and not be obsessed with it.

I've felt a slow chilling of the warmth that used to exist in the mac community.  Where once there were smiles all around you are now seeing a lot more hostility.  These new "unix gurus" coming over to the mac and all of the new "switchers" are not blending in with the old mac community.  They are taking over and telling everyone to get out of the way...at least that's how I've seen a lot of them act.  

I'm still getting my feet wet with MacOSX and I know OF certain things.  I don't have hours a day to sit and learn unix/terminal commands...I know nothing about kernels, net info managers, or even what the heck perl is.  School and life take up too much time to worry about what speed my RAM is or where my swap file is (I still don't know what this is all about...LOL).  

I'm glad that the mac community is now drawing the truly computer savvy, I just wish that these people would take a look around before stepping into the room.  Maybe walk around and shake a couple hands before starting to look down on those who don't share their passion for command line.  At the end of the day we aren't going to take our computers with us, and the only thing we leave behind is our impact on other people.  Everyone logs out sooner or later...


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## edX (Nov 24, 2002)

tommy - sounds more like your bf is really saying _he's_ not ready for os x yet. or more specifically, he's not ready to learn something new. Hey, at least you're in an all mac relationship. 

tormente - nice confessional. i really liked that. getting this stuff off our chests does have a somewhat cathartic effect, doesn't it?  

and while i think you guys pretty much know me well enought to read between the lines and realize i'm not anit-geek, your replies reassured me some that i hadn't gotten too out of hand.

to be sure - i'm not trying to knock geeks in general. the world would be a much less cool place without you guys. but there is a difference between being a geek and being a _geek_ if you know what i mean.  and obviously i have enjoyed a lot of geek company by hanging out here for the last year. i would even admit that some geekiness has rubbed off on me. but when cpu speeds and video cards and cache sizes get in the way of us all getting along as a community of mac users, then it is time to figure out what is wrong i think. maybe you'll come back for part 2 -  mac users vs. multiplatform users.


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## edX (Nov 24, 2002)

izzy - you snuck that one in while i was composing my previous post. i think you helped expand on what i was trying to say very nicely. i would just clarrify that not all terminal jockeys are like that. some of them around here have been quite helpful to me over time and good friends as well. i can think of testuser and hazmet right off the top of my head. there are others to be sure. 

oh and izzy - you're gonna make a fine docter some day i think. 

(isn't there a ZZ top song about a "perl necklace"?


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## Izzy (Nov 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *izzy - you snuck that one in while i was composing my previous post. i think you helped expand on what i was trying to say very nicely. i would just clarrify that not all terminal jockeys are like that. some of them around here have been quite helpful to me over time and good friends as well. i can think of testuser and hazmet right off the top of my head. there are others to be sure.
> 
> oh and izzy - you're gonna make a fine docter some day i think.
> ...



haha...didn't mean to steal your thunder Ed 

I'm glad you made this thread though, and I also want to make clear that I'm not saying that all of the very savvy are the same...it's just that the general feeling I've gotten.  (Being more of a browser here than a poster the last few months)  

Thanks for the vote of confidence too   It's nice to hear those every once and a while 

LOL...I'll leave that perl necklace train of thought alone...not touching that one with a ten foot pole


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## TommyWillB (Nov 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *Hey, at least you're in an all mac relationship. *



Good point!


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## ex2bot (Nov 25, 2002)

Ed, 

I was reading (skimming) your post and I thought that your definition of geek fit me (because I do like playing under the hood) until you got to the part about rudeness and lack of social skills.

I think you'll find rude people anywhere. I'm sure there have even been a fair share of rude Mac users since it all started. I've met some of them.

You're absolutely right. Bad social skills are nothing to brag about.

I would say that I think just about ANY Mac user is a good thing because they are financing our fun! They are helpnig Apple stay healthy.

[BTW, Tormente made a good point about people assuming someone is ignorant about PCs if he is a Mac lover. I know all about Winblows. I've used it since it was called DOS. It's not that exciting.]

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the Mac community getting spoiled by newcomers. Many (like me, I hope) will be a positive addition. Some will only contribute financially.


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## edX (Nov 25, 2002)

> I think you'll find rude people anywhere. I'm sure there have even been a fair share of rude Mac users since it all started. I've met some of them.



i think you've got a valid point here. to be fair, i've met them as well. i've always known that there will be a certain number of jerks anytime you put enough people together to call them a group. and while it might sound like it, i'm really not trying to accuse all the less than socially outgoing geeks of being jerks. knowing when to shut up and remain silent is a good social skill i sometimes skip over myself. besides just trying to get in touch with my frustration, i think i'm also trying to open up a bit of discourse here about how the 2 sides can learn to communicate with each other without so much tension. and maybe this tension is mostly just being generated by me (although izzy's affirmation suggests i'm not entirely imagining it). i just know that it feels uncomfortable and i have learned that uncomfortable feelings are a signal that something needs to change.

"financing our fun" - there's a perception i will think about. it does tend to shed a different light on things.

btw - having just read your compaq/osx post, i would say your sense of humor is good enough to suggest you may have fine social skills


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## mystique (Nov 27, 2002)

Oh, Mac or no Mac, I am most DEFINITELY a GEEK. Why? 

Does this sound familiar? I LOOK for ways to to challenge myself, to frustrate myself and to WIN. Mac or no Mac, it's a computer and I am constantly looking for a new periphial to add, another card, monitor, some way to set up a home lan on a dial up connection including an old 6100 that needs a special adapter to work with the NEW machines just to make it a challenge...then I spend all night and a day stomping around and throwing expletives and CD cases and trying it this way and that way and at the very LAST resort RTFM and asking why do I do this to myself ....because at 3 am the next day I FINALLY GET IT. And I literally stand up and put my hands in the air and shout "YES!!!!!!!!!!" and it's the BEST damn feeling in the world. THAT is why I am a GEEK.

Besides...I'm an atypical Geek...I LOVE clothes and makeup and looking good...BUT...give me the choice over Frys or a bookstore or Neiman-Marcus and I'm in Frys in a heartbeat or spending the day in the computer book dept. I love gadgets. I love brillants minds even when I don't know wth they are talking about.  I read Slashdot for fun.

PC's just  tick-me-off. My Mac allows me to be the Geek I live to be.


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## ex2bot (Nov 27, 2002)

Hey, thanks, Ed! But what do you mean, humor?

Surely you're not mocking my frustration??? I still can't get the Compaq to boot OS X.


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## fryke (Dec 1, 2002)

Hmm... For years I've been actively using Windows, Linux and Mac OS (Classic) all on one desktop (two, sometimes three machines). You can certainly call me a geek.

But I think I never lost the feeling towards the Macintosh. There are very good old reels by Apple that pushed that feeling to the maximum. Maybe Apple should - again - do that to some extent. I've uploaded one of those as an MPEG-4 movie:

http://mac.fryke.com/power.mp4

You have to control-click this link and download it to your computer... It's about 1.4 MB in size. (Isn't MP4 great?!) 

My guess is that the new iGeeks will get to know the Mac platform for those things, too. Or they might leave it again...


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## Giaguara (Dec 1, 2002)

i am definitelly a GEEK.

not a computer user. 

and i am a mac geek. 

you will never find a computer user who has a computer related tattoo unless he had it done when he was completely drunk. and i have an apple in my .. low back. and yes - the geek part of me enjoys that when i go to the beach and i notice that guys are looking on my apple (not on my..) .. heh, all those windows users. (anyone knows any beachs only for mac users? never mind..)
so, wearing apple even when i'm nude. 

i got my first computer when i was 12, it was a 286... and bla bla bla.. later i had windows, then switched to linux - i wanted a mac but didnt have money ... - and then to mac.

when i know what i want i want to understand how to do it. i don't call for a service to mess my computer problems, if i cant resolve my problem i ask some 'more geeks' i know. i want to understand how to resolve .. .and how everything works.  right now i have found out i can't do some things with finder, mail and ichat unless i break up the code, add the features i want and then make it work again. and i will not get peace bofore i have figured out how i can do that. 

well, probably i am still a linux geek as well but not that deep. i know just that i want to add those same features i want to have on my os x also to the linux i use, ... i hope someone has done that before because i feel a bit too lazy to start to do the same thing to all the linux apps as well 

oh yes, also 99 % of my friends are males. i dont understand the other girls logic. they talk about clothes, mode, bfs, feelings etc while i am thinking about computers... so weirdly, i frequent the geeks = am too much online. ok. to THIS point: the last time i went shopping was in paris, in apple expo. i noticed my wardrobe looked too much like steve's so i went shopping... result: jaguar underwear and green apple-parfume. i'm not joking 

ok. mac geek. and it seems that i'm also officially a mac fetishist. or i found out that i was in the wired's mac fetishist article, when it was already online...  

oh, i used to condivide as one nick G33K ... but that is an other and a sad story.

yes, i enjoy the geek company


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## hazmat (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *izzy - you snuck that one in while i was composing my previous post. i think you helped expand on what i was trying to say very nicely. i would just clarrify that not all terminal jockeys are like that. some of them around here have been quite helpful to me over time and good friends as well. i can think of testuser and hazmet right off the top of my head. there are others to be sure.
> *





One point I should make is that a lot of Unix weenies have been Mac users.  In '95 I started working at an ISP.  My boss, the owner, probably forgot more about Unix than I will ever know.  And he used a Mac at home.  I think this was all because it wasn't Microsoft.  And this was all even before Win95.


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## btoneill (Dec 2, 2002)

I'm a geek, through and through, you can tell by my lack of spelling skills  And I fall into the group of recent converts, but there are reasons, and I don't whine (atleast much) about what the OS is lacking. Ofcourse, I've also come full circle with my computing...

1984: started programming Apple Basic on a IIe it rocked
1984: Got my first computer, 8088 XT clone, it was sweet! Had no more Apple Basic, was sad, but I had a ton of copied games 
1990: Starting programming Pascal
1993: Finally got a new computer, 486dx2/66
1993: Started programming C, started playing with UNIX, installed linux 0.9x something
1994: Got first real job programming, in C/Perl on unix ofcourse 
1994: Installed Win95 for the first time, the beta really sucked
1995: Switched from a programmer to a unix admin, became much happier 
1995: Became network admin, I love cisco's 
1995: Started playing with NT, still hate it
1997: Got first job I loved, got to play with lots of great hardware, all unix ofcourse, along with networks, firewalls, etc
2000: Got a job where I finally got to run the entire unix show, great fun hardware ofcourse, but still had to manage the NT crap as I did it better then the NT admins here 
2001: Saw OS X for the first time in real use at LISA '01 conference, fell in love with it
2002: Bought mac, install OS X, lived happily ever after, got rid of all my other hardware, PC's, Sun's, SGI's, DEC's, etc. Power bill decreased around $1.30/day, wife became happy 

Am I a recent convert, yup. Do I love the OS, yup. I played with all the various MacOS's before, and to be honest, it never did what I needed it too, I needed a command prompt. I had lots of friends who were mac faithful, ofcourse, most were just to not use MS or Intel based boxes. I had to keep my Windows boxes around no matter what my main platform was because I needed things like Office, Quicken, the ability to actually watch mpegs/quicktime/etc, and use a digital camera, etc. Ofcourse, now I don't, I have my nice pretty mac doing it all. 

Ofcourse, being a geek, there are problems with OS X, alot of them infact. But, you know what, there are alot of problems in every single OS I've ever used. No OS is perfect, none ever will be. IF there was a perfect OS, you'd never have to upgrade again. True geeks know this. True geeks try to fix the problems they run into, and don't just whine about it.

Ofcourse, this will get me flamed, altho, not as much as Ed might, there are alot of people who think they are geeks because it's cool. They installed RedHat 7.x that they bought at Best Buy, so they must be geeks, they run linux. Hell, if they downloaded it from a website, they probably think they are uber geeks. The real geeks are the ones who dig under the hood, break things, fix it, and break it again. They bitch at themselves for breaking it too. In the process they also learn about every little detail they can, so they can fix the annoying things that they don't like in the OS. A whole lot of the OS can be changed by the user, you just have to know what you can/can't do. The real geeks also don't talk down to "users". Yeah, I can troubleshoot a problem faster then you can, but you can probably make some sweet image in photoshop, or a cool looking webpage, I make stick figures and webpages with just black text on a grey background. I wouldn't want you to make fun of me for my lack of artistic ability, or my lack of spelling and grammar. Hell, if everyone was a geek, I mean a real geek, I'd have no job, as I'd have no one to support, as they could all do it themselves. Also, what good is knowing anything at all if you can't share it with anyone who wants to know it. Hording knowledge and holding it over people goes against the things that made geeks into geeks. Ofcourse, if you've read this far, you're wondering "what the hell is your point, it better be good, i've spent 5 minutes reading this thing", well, my point is, geeks rock, users rock, folks who are mean, nasty, and annoying suck. I do have a problem with people (altho rightly so in many cases) seem to think that all geeks are know it alls (ok, so we are  ), have egos, hate to help people, make fun of people who know less, and all that jazz. I guess I can sum it up by:
I'm a geek
I'm not a mac geek
I'm not a unix geek
I'm not a windows geek
I'm not a network geek
I'm not a programming geek
I'm just a computer geek
A computer geek who happens to love OS X at the moment because it does what other OS's have been trying to do for years, and failing miserably at. You could call me a fair weather fan, but you know, the old OS didn't allow me to do my job the way I needed it to, the new one does. Computers aren't a sporting team, if your favorite team keeps losing, you still can do you job and get paid so you can eat, if your computer and OS can't, you starve  So, I'm a recent convert, and I love it. Just don't put labels on all converts as jumping on the bandwagon, as, if the wagon is going where you're going, it's just getting there faster, is it really wrong to switch wagons?

Brian

PS: hazmat, your unix geek boss could have been running A/UX on his old mac  He would have had to be sick in the head, with severe brain damage, but he could have been


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

geezh ... i enojy the geeky places like this


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## hazmat (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *
> PS: hazmat, your unix geek boss could have been running A/UX on his old mac  He would have had to be sick in the head, with severe brain damage, but he could have been  *



No, it was Mac OS.   But he did have a really nice SPARCstation at work, as well as a Sun laptop.  Remember those? 

Btw, nicely written, Brian.  I think I'm in your boat.  But I often will take the time to explain to a user how to do something so they don't bother me again about it.


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## btoneill (Dec 2, 2002)

hazmat: what do you mean remember? http://hw.tadpole.com/html/products/mobile/sparcbook6500/
They still make them 

Brian


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## hazmat (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *hazmat: what do you mean remember? http://hw.tadpole.com/html/products/mobile/sparcbook6500/
> They still make them
> *



Huh.  I thought that he had a real Sun one.  Ray or something like that.


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## TommyWillB (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *...i have an apple (tattoo) in my .. low back....*


Would that be the old style multi-colored Apple or one of the new solid ones?


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## edX (Dec 2, 2002)

Brian i think your post did more to enlighten me than any so far. i could suddenly relate it to a past experience. back when i used to own an entertainment rag in cols, oh., i used to get backstage passes to lots of concerts. the bigger the names of the acts, the nicer they were. it was the snots on their way up that were often obnoxious, which was probably why most of them were one hit wonders. 
everybody (my age) knows where they were when the space shuttle exploded. i was sitting in a motel room with Bo Diddley. We stopped our interview and turned the tube up and watched together. Then we sat and just talked and tried to deal with it together. he just talked to me about life in general. after an hour or more later, we finally finished the interview. 
so your comparison of real geeks and wannabe's makes lots of sense. funny how the wannabe's are the ones who would benefit from a little humility the most.


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *Would that be the old style multi-colored Apple or one of the new solid ones? *



Of the new aquatic ones  

see here 

ok i have bigger resolution pics as well but didnt feel so comfortable putting thoe online ....


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## edX (Dec 2, 2002)

well, those just do fall within acceptable standards here i guess. 

but i am confused. uh, if the tattoo is under your tanline, uh, and you have a tanline, uh how do guys get to stare at it when you're at the beach?


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## btoneill (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Of the new aquatic ones  *



Picture is way to small to tell that it's an aquatic one, hell, with my resolution it's hard to tell it's an Apple (hint hint) 

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

simple. i have to wear thongs  

well those tanned pics were done just when i had my apple done  ... i thought even those bikinis were quite essential? now i need to find for the next beach season thongs or strings or how ever you call them to show the apple  ... i think i'm flat enough to thongs ...


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## hazmat (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *
> everybody (my age) knows where they were when the space shuttle exploded. i was sitting in a motel room with Bo Diddley. We stopped our interview and turned the tube up and watched together. Then we sat and just talked and tried to deal with it together. he just talked to me about life in general. after an hour or more later, we finally finished the interview.
> *



I remember where I was.  I was in 8th grade taking finals.  A teacher walked into the room and said in a dazed look, "The Space Shuttle just blew up."  We laughed, thinking he was kidding.  Unfortunately he wasn't.


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *Picture is way to small to tell that it's an aquatic one, hell, with my resolution it's hard to tell it's an Apple (hint hint)
> 
> Brian *



okay okay ... i can take even bigger versions of that. can you see now an aquatic logo on the picture?   

[n. cont. just the logo.]


----------



## btoneill (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *I remember where I was.  I was in 8th grade taking finals.  A teacher walked into the room and said in a dazed look, "The Space Shuttle just blew up."  We laughed, thinking he was kidding.  Unfortunately he wasn't. *



I was hanging out at a friends house, we had a "winter weather day" which meant, it was like under 10 degree's, so we didn't have school (this was in Atlanta where they are wimps for the cold) and my friends mom came home crying and turned on the TV....


Brian


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## hazmat (Dec 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *I was hanging out at a friends house, we had a "winter weather day" which meant, it was like under 10 degree's, so we didn't have school (this was in Atlanta where they are wimps for the cold) and my friends mom came home crying and turned on the TV....
> *



Oh, then it must have been midterms. 

I had the pleasure of seeing the Space Shuttle take off once.  It was the second night flight ever.  Unbelievable.  It lit up the entire sky.  I forget which one it was.  Maybe the Discovery.


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## edX (Dec 2, 2002)

giaguara - looks like that pic was taken while the work was still being done or just finished. but yes i can see the aqua effect. looks nice. that is quite the commitment to apple. 

oh yea, thongs. i figured, but your tan lines inferred you were more modest than that. but i can certainly see how you would go out and buy a more appropriate suit to show that off. Am i allowed to say that is very sexy? 

i must warn you though, that this site will take no responsibility if you are bomabarded with pm's containing marriage proposals. 

ken - seeing the space shuttle take off live must have been an unforgetable experience as well.

to all - i must say that i think my move to admin along with your great responses to this thread have got me feeling better. i don't _have_ to read the pseudo geeks' constant bickering anymore and i get time to pay attention to more enjoyable communications like this (with real geeks no less  )


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

well yes the previous bikinis look more modest but they still are of the look of the beginning of the 1970s  those tanned pics were made on the day or the day after the tattoo was done, true.  and now i need to get a new ones for the next sea season...

the week before making that tattoo i was at the sea with the ex ... a journalist who asked - believe me, he was not joking - "Cupertino? who the hell is Cupertino? The coach of Milan (football team) ??" ... call me platform racist if you want but that was too much. so i've been trying to get my resume to this football coach... and avoiding the pc users 

[that knowledge level of the .. fruit company is not so amazing here. just that i never waited anyone who seems to be informed about anything and who is seen in the news to be that ignorant.]


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## Giaguara (Dec 2, 2002)

... oh yes, i fomatted his computer after that 

besides no other revenge required.. as i said, he uses windows = gets pissed all the time he uses his computer ...


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## Giaguara (Dec 3, 2002)

heh, most peecee users get me quite wrong when i put "fsck -y" to my online status in aim ...  
or when i tell them to fsck -y


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## hazmat (Dec 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *heh, most peecee users get me quite wrong when i put "fsck -y" to my online status in aim ...
> or when i tell them to fsck -y  *



You might want to call these people you're referring to "Windows users".  As you know, Linux and other Unix flavors run quite well on PC hardware.


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## Giaguara (Dec 3, 2002)

okay, the windows users


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## btoneill (Dec 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *As you know, Linux and other Unix flavors run quite well on PC hardware.  *



Seeing as this is the opinion forum....
Linux doesn't run well on any hardware 

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 3, 2002)

well linux still runs better than windows ... it's much more stable.. i installed linux half a year ago and i still didn't have the necessity to format it...


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## hazmat (Dec 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *well linux still runs better than windows ... it's much more stable.. i installed linux half a year ago and i still didn't have the necessity to format it...  *



I've had Windows 2000 on my PC at home for a few years now.  No problems at all.  I don't think it has ever even blue-screened.  I wish people would give NT variants a little more credit, as a desktop at least.  Granted it's not as fun to use as OS X, but it works, and is pretty damn stable.  Note that I said as a desktop.


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## Giaguara (Dec 3, 2002)

as a desk yea.. maybe. i switched to laptops from win 95  ...


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## fryke (Dec 3, 2002)

*grin* ... no, win2k is really the best windows ever... but still a windows. and if you put it through some issues (like surf too much and install too many things...) you'll see IE crashes a lot. you'll see the same driver issues as with any windows and you'll have hardware that isn't yet supported (downgrade to windows Me or upgrade to windows XP). but let's not go too far here. 

Geeks are the subject, though, so I guess a discussion 'bout operating systems was unavoidable, anyway.


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## TommyWillB (Dec 4, 2002)

Hmmm... How long has it been since either the word Geek or User has been used in this thread?

Sure is an interesting meander...


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## Giaguara (Dec 4, 2002)

10 posts?


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## fryke (Dec 5, 2002)

nono, my last post had 'geek' in it.


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## edX (Dec 5, 2002)

i think they meant before that 

but i have learned that you can't get a thread full of geeks together and not have them start talking tech stuff in some way shape or form. it's like getting together with buddies after work and talking shop. some of it is good, it puts the discussion at a more relaxed level. too much is bad, you never really leave work.  

so if we take that and go back to my discussion, then maybe a lack of more general social skills leads some geeks or wannabes to lean upon the safety of an area they feel comfortable in rather than risk looking or sounding foolish by venturing into less secure arenas. it also brings up the idea that geeks with less social skills assume that others just know what they want so they think it is unneccesary to say it. likewise thank-you's are not required because they assume the person knows they are thankful. i once had a client, a geeky silicon valley subcontracter, part of whose problems turned out to be related to this. once he started voicing what he wanted, he started getting more of it. once he stopped assuming that the only thing he needed to communicate were the tech aspects, his relationships with co-workers and others improved greatly. at least part of this was learning to recognize when to say "i feel" and when to say "i think". "i feel" had not been part of his vocabulary before. it wasn't that he didn't have feelings, he was just so busy hiding them behind technical facts and figures that no one ever saw them. and he assumed everyone could see them.
sometimes people criticize techies for having no feelings and i believe this is completely untrue. in fact i believe that their levels of inner pain are often far more excrutiating than others because they tend to internalize it all. and that's really hard to do. plus they want to deny the validity of expressed emotions most of the time, thus it takes a lot of build up or personal trauma to bring them to the point of believing they should or could do anything about it. hence, when they reach the level of pain required for them to seek any help for it, either from friends, family or a professional; they are hurting a lot more than the average emotionally expressive person. i t seems like no one in this thread is overly like that, but i'm guessing we all know geeks who are.
of course i don't have any scientific data to back this up, it's just been my observance. both in RL and here. of course, when you realize that i am a psychology grad student, stuff like this post is just shop talk for me


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## fryke (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, I may be another kind, then. I'm a geek alright, but there's that completely different side of me that makes me perform my literature on stage, that makes me present the graphic designs I do, the extro-side of me. Then again, I'm also quite 'intro' in those aspects as long as a product/a poem/a story isn't finished. But that's not my geek side, I think.


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## edX (Dec 5, 2002)

i think you've hit upon a good way of expressing what i was getting at fryke - that these kinds of people have trouble showing that there are 'sides' to them. they somehow feel like they must compartmentalize everything into completely seperate things so that thinking and feeling are not 2 equally important ways of gathering and relating information, but rather 2 competing methods which can't be integrated. having sides to ones personality is very healthy . especially when one is aware of one's sides and expresses and participates in them. this includes one's dark side which if constantly surpressed will also constantly fight for expression.
and we all have a dark side. i don't really believe much in good and bad, or good and evil. but we do have emotions and instincts that can cause harm. used with awareness and care, they help insure our survival and even our accomplishments. stuffed inside and denied, they tend to surface on their own in unappropriate ways and times. then we end up acting like @ssholes or worse.
to make a tech analogy - i may think of m$ and aol as the dark side. but that doesn't mean that i don't want them to exist. they have their usefulness. but i also don't want them to overpower the light side by denying their powers and influence.  in my perfectly balanced world of light and dark of computing - macs would rule home computing, pc's would rule business and there would be quick, efficient protocols for communicating and exchanging data between them. as it is, m$ feels more like the totaly unleashed and uncontroled dark side that is so dangerous in that state. we didn't acknowledge the existence of it as shadow until it was too late. 
(ok, let's not go back to os's, it was just an analogy )


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## hazmat (Dec 5, 2002)

> *fryke *



What was that you said?


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## fryke (Dec 5, 2002)

humm? what do you mean?


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## hazmat (Dec 5, 2002)

Not sure if I would be considered a "geek", but I have a degree in Linguistics, so I know how to communicate.  It amazes me that some people can type up multiple pages of something and in the end not have said anything whatsoever.


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## Giaguara (Dec 5, 2002)

hazmat ... "It amazed me that some people can type up multiple pages of something and in the end not have said anything whatsoever." ... have you ever seen a phd thesis?


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## TommyWillB (Dec 5, 2002)

I feel that I'm starting to take this too personally, so I feel that I have to stop reading this thread...  

> Edited to change "I think" to "I feel"...


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## edX (Dec 5, 2002)

tommy, what part of this thread do you take personally?  i hope it wasn't something i've said as you have always been a great guy around here.
of course, i'm still wondering if ken was talking about me when he was talking about writing pages and saying nothing.


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## hazmat (Dec 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *
> of course, i'm still wondering if ken was talking about me when he was talking about writing pages and saying nothing.  *



Heh heh.  I know you know I wasn't.  I was actually just speaking in general.  I see it often in work-related emails.  Also a lot  of list mail I get.


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## TommyWillB (Dec 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *tommy, what part of this thread do you take personally?  i hope it wasn't something i've said as you have always been a great guy around here.*


Oops... Just my bad attempt at making an "I think" vs. "I feel" joke... I guess the scarcasm did not translate. Sorry.

What... why am I still reading this thread.... Aaaarrrggghhhh.....


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## edX (Dec 5, 2002)

tommy, you left off the big sh*t eating grin smilie  gotta be sure to include those if you want me not to worry.

now for my next 5 page topic.....


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## Giaguara (Dec 5, 2002)

... err? did i miss something? did i hurt some phds feelings? ... sorry, i'm a geek and thus emotianallly moron ...  ... at least acconrding to a 10-question online test to measure EQ i did once ... geeks, geeks, ... we were talkin bout geeks right ?? :-?


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## btoneill (Dec 6, 2002)

I take offense to you implying that geeks have feelings! Everyone knows they are heartless eleetists who take pleasure in watching the pain of users.I worked really hard for years to remove all feelings of guilt, remorce, sorrow, and pity, all so I can be a proper BOFH. It's the sum of my lifes work. I'd write a useless PhD paper on it, but I can't spell, or properly use grammar, save for my pet peeve of the proper use of they're, there, and their.

Brian

PS: 
PSS: Incase you users don't know what a BOFH is see: http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html
PSSS: I really did mean the 
PSSSS: Ignore the previous line
PSSSSS: Ignore the next line
PSSSSSS: Don't ignore the previous line
PSSSSSSS: I really think i did mean the 
PSSSSSSSS: Doesn't the PS's cascading look kinda cool?
PSSSSSSSSS: I'm done now


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## hazmat (Dec 6, 2002)

I have a blue windbreaker jacket  that looks like the FBI ones, but on the back it says BOFH.  I'm serious.  In the mid-90s there was a big Usenet (I think) deal where a bunch of sysadmin type people had them made.  I have only ever worn it once.   I feel like WAY too much of a geek with it on.


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

feeelings??? what are they??? :-?? are you sure you didn't mean emoticons??? 
wait i think i better go do some googling... :-/


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

blah emoticons are much easier to recognise than the "feelings" :-/ ... and my EQ is a moron as a good g33k's EQ is ...


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *I have a blue windbreaker jacket  that looks like the FBI ones, but on the back it says BOFH.  I'm serious.  In the mid-90s there was a big Usenet (I think) deal where a bunch of sysadmin type people had them made.  I have only ever worn it once.   I feel like WAY too much of a geek with it on. *



I want one!


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## hazmat (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tormente _
> *I want one!  *



Hmm, I wonder what I could get on eBay for it.


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## fryke (Dec 6, 2002)

Hmm... TheRegister still sells BOFH wares... But more like T-Shirts and mugs and stuff. 

Gotta love BOFH, though...


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

BOFH????

I was thinking to get a :^* (I) KISS MY ASCII t-shirt


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *feeelings??? what are they??? :-?? are you sure you didn't mean emoticons???
> wait i think i better go do some googling... :-/  *



ah ha !! emoticons are proof that geeks have emotions and are capable of expressing them at some level. of course tommy's lack of proper emoticon use might presnt a different perspective 

(ok, tommy. now you can be offended if you want, but i'll warn you that being offended is an emotion  )


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## hazmat (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *ah ha !! emoticons are proof that geeks have emotions and are capable of expressing them at some level. of course tommy's lack of proper emoticon use might presnt a different perspective
> *



Or you could look at it as our way of staying out of trouble when saying certain things.


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

emoticons are better than feelings. 
if i am   >:O or :-? or nothing nobody makes a problem id i don't use a smiley.
instead many women ... offline break the balls wanting at all costs to know "how you feel" .. if i feel bad i don't feel like talking. i recognise only "uncomfortable" as a bad feel and i can't recognise often if that is angry, nervous, unsecure etc.. i think i need something like iFeel .. so a logically programmed feelings. .. and if they go in tilt then just see the console log what crashed and why ....


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *Or you could look at it as our way of staying out of trouble when saying certain things.  *



ah but....this indicates an awareness of other people's feelings. a genuine sign of having some EQ.


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

it is? i thought it was just a sign of being partially antisocial..


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

> if i feel bad i don't feel like talking. i recognise only "uncomfortable" as a bad feel and i can't recognise often if that is angry, nervous, unsecure etc.. i think i need something like iFeel .. so a logically programmed feelings. .. and if they go in tilt then just see the console log what crashed and why ....



well, there are logical feelings. it makes sense to feel certain ways at certain times. the hardest times to talk about your feelings is when you are experiencing many of them at once. but this is also the most beneficial time to talk about them so that you can identify them and act to bring things back in balance. to refer to another thread in this forum - it's always nice to get an error code you understand.


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

... yea ed. can i somehow switch on the error log in my head?? i mean all i'd need to do when i go in tilt would see the crashlog in console and understand why i didn't function correctly..


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

well my biggest problem isn't understanding the error code, it's remembering what i was doing at the time - figuring out what variables contributed. and darn if next time it happens, i don't go ahead and repeat the action without paying any attention to the confirmation window.


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *... yea ed. can i somehow switch on the error log in my head?? i mean all i'd need to do when i go in tilt would see the crashlog in console and understand why i didn't function correctly..  *



Nah, the mental error log is still in early development stages and is completly unusuable... I finally turned mines off after too many core dumps caused a stack overflow.


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

.. well if i understood why i go in tilt i could do some scripts that would resolve the problems the nest time i'm going to crash ...


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *.. well if i understood why i go in tilt i could do some scripts that would resolve the problems the next time i'm going to crash ...  *



ah yes... the very foundation of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *.. well if i understood why i go in tilt i could do some scripts that would resolve the problems the nest time i'm going to crash ...  *



If you are able to do that, let me know and give me a copy? Please? 

My only work-around is to smile and look innocent... might not work in all situations but has kept me out of trouble so far.


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## edX (Dec 6, 2002)

> My only work-around is to smile and look innocent... might not work in all situations but has kept me out of trouble so far.



"turned 75 and i'm still alive,
aint' no luck, i learned to duck"
-the Grateful Dead


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

i have found one situation that make me go REALLY badly in tilt:

"Cupertino? Who the f*ck is Cupertino? The coach of Milan (football team)??" ... i still haven't fully recovered. My ex said that in august.. i won't date any windows users anymoer  ... 

i just go in tilt when i hear somehting like that


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

Yeah... Windows users are bad icky people to date... 

I've only dated a Mac user once... she was awesome! 
Ahh... memories...


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

here there aren't enough mac users..


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *here there aren't enough mac users..  *



Here either... notice i only mentioned 1? 
And the ones that are around - are guys... 
  What's up with that? 


Well... there is an ex-teacher, but she don't count (married too! dangit!)!


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## Giaguara (Dec 6, 2002)

well i prefer guys 

i once met one to whom i said something far too geeky... "has anyone told you that ... in that light your eyes look like apple logo?" ... luckily he was a mac user


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## Sogni (Dec 6, 2002)

LOL!
Well at least he was able to relate...

I have far too many points against me that it's rare any girl can relate to me. So I end up catching myself and comprimising... 
and Smiling instead!


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## TommyWillB (Dec 9, 2002)

That's good...

The smartest people to me are the ones who know when to simply keep their mouth shut and smile.

Me? Well, at this point it is doubtful if I'll ever learn that lesson... 

Luckily the boss cuts me a fair amount of slack...


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

Heh, i still to want to emigrate to US and work there somewhat related to computers... the alpha release  ... now THIS is a geek try or a geek way to relate!!!  

 

[yes. the classic. doing that for the passport..]


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## hazmat (Dec 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Heh, i still to want to emigrate to US and work there somewhat related to computers... the alpha release  ... now THIS is a geek try or a geek way to relate!!!
> 
> 
> ...



Most AMERICANS can't find jobs working with computers!   I hear it's getting better, though.


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## robotguy (Dec 10, 2002)

```
funny

i can't seem to get a job

working with humans
```


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

okay okay.. i could switch back to architecture part time for a while if in that is easier to find a work.. :? b ut i enjoy mych more computers than working with people or buildings... 

just that here architecture is dead = no jobs. 
and neither with computers if you happen to be of the wrong sex .. at least in US the highest level a female can get is _NOT_ being part of office decoration!!!


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## btoneill (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually the number, or lack there of, of jobs is completely based on experience, and what you want to do. If you're a web designer, hell, web anything, you're really SOL right now. If you're an MCSE you're really SOL right now.  If you do tech support, you're really SOL right now. There are however alot of jobs (depends on city too) for application programmers, network admins, DBA's, and other specialty fields. Also there is a growing demand for multiskilled IT workers, folks who know unix, nt, networks, programming, the whole 9 yards.

The internet boom created a glut of web and nt folks, alot of it fueled by "getting rich quick in computers" along with "schools" popping up all over the country training you in NT or web stuff in just 3 months, which basically made having an MCSE worthless as anyone with 3 months to spend going to class could pass the test, but not really even know how to log into a system. 

The key to getting a job right now is just like every other field now, experience, experience, experience.

Brian


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## hazmat (Dec 10, 2002)

Then maybe I'm thinking more of NYC right now.  Not a good scene.  But either way, good thing I do Unix admin.


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

SOL=??? 
i do have a MSc in engineering but not about computers if it could bring something more.. and so far i guess i would not mind to switch again what i do or start in another field... hey, how does someone become a unix admin??? that sounds sexxxy...


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## Sogni (Dec 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *
> [yes. the classic. doing that for the passport..] *



Damn... you had me there for a second! Doh! heh


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

SOL=sh*t out of luck


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

I found this test : http://www.captcha.net/cgi-bin/pix

It is supposed to tell if someone is a computer or a person. A person can tell the right answer to what is on the pictures, a computer not.

I FAILED!!! 

ithus i am a computer!! 

"
Result of the Test: FAIL
You entered the following word:
turtles

The possible words were:
seashell shell shells seashells
"

I saw turtles that were swimming??? 

 = i feel more geeky now.. well even more geeky


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## hazmat (Dec 10, 2002)

That test sucks.    Apparently I'm a computer as well.  There were a bunch of mouths there, so I said so.  It said they were lips.


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

heheh  haznat i think a geek takes that failure as a compliment, a computer user doesn't


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

sorry, i passed several times. but the test is also screwed up somehow. i entered pigs for one of them and it tried to tell me they were submarines  
and ken - the lips one was BS. either answer should have been accepted. obviously this test was made by a geek


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

no it can't have been made by a geek >:0
with all those stock images..

if it was made by a geek, most of us would have passed!!! i posted this also womewhere else to see if the .. well.. well.. if my friends are computers or humans  they are all computers!! 
losers (like me)


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## btoneill (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmm, that test is wacked. I had 6 pictures of pigs, put in pigs, and was told the answer was automobiles. I got pictures of elephants, and they told me it was flags. Stupid programmers.....

Brian


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## hazmat (Dec 10, 2002)

Funniest thing is that I did it again after the pig one and it was a bunch of babies.  Not looking, I put "babies".  After submitting the thing, it said I was wrong and I realized that "pig" was still there, so I typed "pigbabies".  Hehe.


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

ok, obviously wannabe geeks. 

the pigs pics are definitly screwed up


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

well it must have been done by some windows users...


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## Jason (Dec 10, 2002)

ive passed all tests thus far, you guys suck at the internet


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## Giaguara (Dec 10, 2002)

yea,, we suck buddah  ... you are a computer user, we losers must be geeks


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

bobb obviously didn't get the pigs


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

Today, in a book  store.

A mobile phone discussion (i was calling):

Friend: "hello"
Me: "hi... is freebsd for x86s or ppc??"
f: "w00t?"
me: "i'm in a book store and i see a linux magazine that has freebsd as gift... but it's not written whether they run on x86 or ppc"
f: "it's for intels"
(pause)
f: ".. the kernel is practically ugual to darwin."
me: "     (drawling..) "

yes. i can enter to a clothes store and not like anything ... but i have bad time resisting when i see linuxes.. some time ago i bought mandrake, ... now wonder if freebsd is  kewler than redhat..


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## hazmat (Dec 11, 2002)

Than Red Hat?  Almost anything is cooler.   Than Debian?  Not sure.    Also remember you can get Darwin for x86.  There's also OpenBSD which runs on both x86 ans PPC as well as other platforms.


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

ok mandrake is _NOT: cooler than RH. i didnt like so i put redhat back the same day i tried with mandrake. mandrake was ugly and had less things than redhat. debian?? i am too lazy to install that.. i wanted darwin for the 86 but i have not found ANYTHING if it'd run on the pc i have, so .. do i have to try ALL the linuxes??  vine could be interesting...


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## btoneill (Dec 11, 2002)

Lets put a stop to this whole linux thing. Linux sucks, pure and simple. It's an evil evil evil OS. OpenBSD, well, I won't even go into my issues with Theo and his pet project, I have issues with anyone who is so hard to work with he leaves the NetBSD group, and  basically does a find/replace in the NetBSD code to change it to OpenBSD, then installs his patches the NetBSD folks wouldn't do for various reasons. Plus there is the ever going flip flop of OpenBSD is only for intel, then it will support solaris, then not, then again, then not. Come on guys, make up your mind.

FreeBSD just rocks. It's a great development team that actually listens to the users. It doesn't have all the support linux has, but if you stay with brand name recent hardware you're fine. 

As for all the linux's, I don't think you'll ever have them all, there are literally 100's of linux distributions, each one as messed up as the others.

And, if you want to know why linux sucks, they have to reinvent everything. You have software under the BSD license that is free, has been tested, tweaked, worked on for 15 years, but, it's not "Free Enough" for the linux folks, so they rewrite the code from scratch (changing a few arguments to piss off everyone else in the world) so that it can be under the GPL, because the BSD opensource license isn't free enough. Not to mention that fact that bash is not sh. /bin/sh should never be bash. Folks writing software that expects /bin/sh to be bash should be shot on sight.

Ok, I'm done for now 

Brian

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

okay .. okay brian calm down 

i am thinking to get rid of the peecee so i will be happy with Fink or anything *X after that ---


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## hazmat (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *
> i am thinking to get rid of the peecee so i will be happy with Fink or anything *X after that ---   *



You really don't need Fink, you know.  Plenty of things build cleanly under Darwin without it.  vim and ncftp are two.


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## btoneill (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *okay .. okay brian calm down
> 
> *



Hey! I am calm, this is the opinion forum tho  Ofcourse, as they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But they are wrong, atleast for me, I have alot of opinions, but only one of the other  

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

ok of *x i want to try only bluefish right now


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

ack!! geeks have hijacked my rant thread !!


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## hazmat (Dec 11, 2002)

"And the geek shall inherit the Earth..."


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

"In the beginning God created the World.. and then Adam and Eve. Everything was good and unix and he said they could do anything they wanted except touch the source of Knowledge...

So Adam and Eve lived happily... untill Eve found God's forbidden fruit.. ehm, Apple.. his Powerbook .. She saw it, logged in and saw how heavenly it was as a computer... "Omg, and for us he left just unix.. !!" she went to search Adam and showed the powerbook also for him "and we have to use unix .. not fair.."

God saw that his powerbook had been touched and found the guilty ones. And as the punishment, he invented the Windows..."


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)




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## fryke (Dec 11, 2002)

i always thought Gates was on the _other_ side, though...


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

Ok is it more clear if i typed GAWD???? 
of course god is a mac user....


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

wasn't there supposed to be something about a serpent doing some tempting in the story?


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

... or a snakey bill who showed how attractive the gawd's powerbook was?


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## btoneill (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *ack!! geeks have hijacked my rant thread !! : *



But we voted you into the club, you're an offical geek now  So, it's not hijacking anymore.

Brian

PS: I wonder if we're throwing up flags at the FBI for repeated use of the word "hijack", maybe we can add in some more? 
Me: "C4"
You: "You sunk my battleship!!!"


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

well he's an official geek and i'm only an official mac fetishist? gee...


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## btoneill (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *well he's an official geek and i'm only an official mac fetishist? gee...  *



Hey! being a fetishist is a very good thing 

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

yes but becoming an official mac fetishist with the _real name_ without being told first is _not_ a good thing.


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

> But we voted you into the club, you're an offical geek now



well thanks, but what good is it to be in the club if you can't manage the secret handshake? 

maybe i'll just be a fetishist with Giaguara - sounds like more fun anyway


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

nah. w00t? leander kahney thinks i'm a fetishist, i thought i was a geek... :-?


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

that's alright, i'd still rather be a fetishist. maybe i'll go buy some ropes and chains to wrap around my imac. 

(i wonder if it will process any faster if i use a whip?  )


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *nah. w00t? leander kahney thinks i'm a fetishist, i thought i was a geek... :-? *



w00t???   macs are sensitive.. sensual .... OSeXy ...   i would NEVER whip me sweet little honey ... my sweet little ibook!! as long as he loves me...


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

you mean you wouldn't do this?


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

or this?


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

gee thanx ed!!! now my ibook stares me scared, i have to keep telling him i would never do such...   i guess i have to say also "not even with a peecee" because he gets jealous when he can feel i have touched a peecee....


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

yea, well you know, it's not as much fun with a pc. they like it too much. 
not to mention they have a very sadistic side that they often like to show when you untie them. i've heard they even produce snuff films starring the BSOD.


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

yea the peecees like formatting... and they keep asking for that!!! but i dont want to hurt the feelings of my mac doing such things... i think he already is enjoying the idea of being my only love...  = dreaming the life without a x86 pc...


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

maybe your ibook would like more traditional love toys


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

the maximum RAM makes it so hot  
besides, he likes a tablet ... 

more geek conversations:
(my cousin had just bought her first laptop)
me: "do you use your laptop in bed?"
she: "of course!!!!!! what is the point of having a laptop if you don't use it where you like to???? "
(with the voice telling "WHAT A STUUUUPID QUESTION")


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## fryke (Dec 11, 2002)

You have a notebook?
You need wireless.
Chat from where you ARE in your apartment or house.

I LOVE chatting in front of my house in summer... Wish it were summer again...


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

yes, looks like i'll get one for my birthday....
maybe i'll need an ipod first... 

anyone from US coming to italy soon ?? (could bring a 'pod??)


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## Sogni (Dec 11, 2002)

Same reason I want a 'Book, and the moment I get one I get Wireless Networking too. So I can join my neighbor on the outside walkway - he with his books, me with an iBook.


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## Sogni (Dec 11, 2002)

To Italy? Yes (research family origins and visit where family is from) - soon? No.


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

okay so i get rid of the peecee and come to US and get the pod there


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## Jason (Dec 11, 2002)

you guys are losers, im gonna go play with my star wars dolls now


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## Sogni (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BuddahBobb _
> *you guys are losers, im gonna go play with my star wars dolls now  *



You play with yours???
Dang... I can't even bring myself to take them out of the package!


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## Giaguara (Dec 11, 2002)

play with dolls??? what's wrong with the emulators???

okay guys i go play some deimos...


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## iGuy (Dec 14, 2002)

Geek test:
Give yourself 1 point for each question you to which you answer yes.

1. Do you know who made the VAX1147?
2. Have you successfully installed any Debian  distro?
3. Have you ever modified a device driver?
4. Do you know what a break-out box is?

Please refer the block of code below for questions 5 - 8.
5. Do you know what language this is?
6. Do you know what it does?
7. Do you know what target platform this is written for?
8. Do you see the syntax error in this block of code?

Code for questions 5 - 8.
void main ()
{
PrevAbortHandler = signal (SiGABRT, & AbortHandler);
 	if (PrevAbortHandler == SIG__ERR)
	printf (Could not set SIGABRT \n);
	else
	{
		str = (char* malloc(10);
	}
}

void AbortHandler (int sig)
{
	printf (\nHandled SIGABRT\n sig);
	free (str);
}

9. Are you running Apache?
10.  Have you configured Sendmail?

I am not sure but I think it would go something like this:
1-3 : Advanced user
4-6 : Beginning to Geek
6-8 : Geeking!
9-10: Bored by this.


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## edX (Dec 14, 2002)

i'm glad i'm already an honorary member cause i got 0.


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## Giaguara (Dec 14, 2002)

Bored...


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## Sogni (Dec 14, 2002)

3...
Damnit Jim, I'm a Geek - not a Programmer! 

I've installing Linux Distros, I've installed, used and configured Apache, and Sendmail... just about everything BUT do any real programing (besides basich BASH).  

Other than that, bored too!


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## fryke (Dec 14, 2002)

Shouldn't a geek test include whether or not you're wearing glasses and their thickness as well as other clothes-tests?


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## Giaguara (Dec 15, 2002)

fryke i had bottle bottom-glasses till i had my eyes operated! if i find the glasses i'll take some pix with those this week


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## Giaguara (Dec 15, 2002)

....AAAND my wardrobe is about as "kewl" as Steve's .. apart from jaguar underwear and apple parfum.. well? i hope i can find a fake fur jaguar wintercoat...


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## edX (Dec 15, 2002)

hey, i've at least got glasses!!  

ok, so they're not thick ones (yet), but i can't read the screen very well without them. can i take a 1 on the test now?


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## Giaguara (Dec 15, 2002)

ok do u want me to post thursday the pic of me with with the geeky glasses?  how i WAS?


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## TommyWillB (Dec 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *i'm glad i'm already an honorary member cause i got 0.  *


 Doesn't eveyone automatically get 1 point for "running Apache"? How do you get a 0?


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## btoneill (Dec 15, 2002)

> Geek test:
> Give yourself 1 point for each question you to which you answer yes.



1.  DEC
2. Why would anyone install such a crappy OS such as linux is beyond me, if you're into S&M I guess, but in that case, you should check out Ed's computers.
3. Ofcourse
4. Are those them things in Arknoid?  
5. C
6. What it does is fail to compile  But I think what you really want is, it causes the program to call the funcation AbortHandler when a SIGABRT is sent to the process. The AbortHandler function is supposed to free up the memory allocated to the variable "str"
7. I would assume you mean unix
8. To many to mention, but I assume you mean this:  'str = (char* malloc(10);' with the missing ')', or did you mean SIG__ERR having two '_'s in it, or the lack of any include files which are desperately needed to define the variables you have, or the lack of any global defines of variables since you don't define them locally in any sub. It's also handy to include funtion prototypes.
9. Ofcourse
10. Using m4 or hacking at the config file?  The real question is, can you actually understand what all the rules do in the cf file 

For tormente, the code above but in bash (functionally atleast)

```
#!/bin/bash


trap "str=; echo 'Caught signal SIGABRT';" SIGABRT

if [ $? != 0 ]; then
        echo Could not set SIGABRT
fi

str="yaywheefun"
```

Brian


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## hazmat (Dec 15, 2002)

Brian, I think your answer for #2 should be the same as #10, at least the part about S&M.


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## Giaguara (Dec 16, 2002)

... or do you ever wonder how you can recognise if the people that are talking to you in the same room (offline) are smiling because you can't recognise smilies offline (=while people are talking)? 

... well.. there are 10 kinds pf people; those who understand geek humor and those who don't


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## Sogni (Dec 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *... well.. there are 10 kinds pf people; those who understand geek humor and those who don't  *


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## btoneill (Dec 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *Brian, I think your answer for #2 should be the same as #10, at least the part about S&M.  *



I actually enjoy working with sendmail. Once you actually figure it out, it can be alot of fun.

Brian


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## btoneill (Dec 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *.... well.. there are 10 kinds pf people; those who understand geek humor and those who don't  *



Why are you wasting a bit? Shouldn't it be there are 1 kinds of people...

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 19, 2002)

okay there are 1 kinds of people...


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## Giaguara (Dec 21, 2002)

Okay .. .found the version with the bottle bottom glasses ...  so this was 3 years ago..


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## edX (Dec 21, 2002)

looks like a disguise from a james bond movie to me. Are you sure you aren't just trying to infiltrate the geeks and learn all their secrets?


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## Giaguara (Dec 21, 2002)

err?? i said i took the picture three years ago!!! i was at university and deadly bored ... there were no secrets to discover left! hey, i'm a geek so i'm not trying to infiltrate.. but of course i want to learn everyhitng i don't know yet...  ...


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## btoneill (Dec 21, 2002)

Those glasses don't seem bad at all, kinda cool if you ask me 

Brian


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## Giaguara (Dec 21, 2002)

uhm.. i did like those glasses... but after weargin glasses since i was a kid i now really enjoy NOT wearing them anymore... so i guess i look less geeky now?


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## Giaguara (Dec 23, 2002)

No idea how old i was when i started to look geeky but .. THIS   looks bad already!!!


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## hazmat (Dec 23, 2002)

Nice mohawk. ;-)


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## edX (Dec 23, 2002)

i don't know, other than the expression on your face, you looked like a cute kid. that frown looks like you were staring at a wintel.


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## jeffrito (Jul 25, 2003)

Oh.  I'm a Geek.  Capital 'G'.  For starters I have my on vintage VAX 6320 mainframe in my 'computer room'.  I named her Mother after the computer in Alien.  Another Geek thing to do.  Then there are my twin VAX 4300's Thelma & Louise.  The MicroVAX II, and the desktop MicroVAX3100.  I've always waved the DIGITAL EQUIPMENT / VAX flag.  I never cared for anything that didn't weigh at least 200 pounds.  Apples were originally not my system of choice.  But alas I am double biased now.  Since Compaq bought DEC and HP bought Compaq I won't buy anything off ebay without a genuine Digital logo on it.  I've owned 3 macs including my current iBook.  I go everywhere with it.  Since I can't have VMS on the iBook I can have the next best thing - unix!  Now I wave the Apple flag and the Digital flag.  (There is a cult of VAX Geeks out there just like the Mac ones).  God bless Apple for being the modern-day DEC: They make their OWN hardware, their OWN OS/software to run the hardware, everything is way ahead of the rest of the world, works forever, compatible with everything, and they march to their OWN drum - dot someone elses.  Just like DEC did.  So piss on Microsoft and the Dells.  Long live VAX/VMS and Mac/OS X.


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## Giaguara (Jul 25, 2003)

... when you after having seen 200000 cars on the road with the fish bumper sticker want to get a freebsd bumper sticker ...


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