# A time for understanding after the attack on America



## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

This attack is a dire situation and my and my families condolences go out to all affected and I believe that is all of America.  I sincerely hope that we do not start looking at foriegners (SP?) as terrorist because that is worst than any terrorist attack when we start questioning our neighbors.  People please think before you act we do not need more hatred in the world.  Again I am  sharing in all of Americas sadness and hope that we can come from this and be a stronger nation.  Also I am an avid democrat but in the countries time of need I think president Bush needs all of our support so hopefully he can make a wise decision that does not accelerate tensions.


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## RacerX (Sep 11, 2001)

This time (like no other) embodies the statement "United we stand, divided we fall". My condolences to all those effected by our losses in New York and Washington.


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 11, 2001)

This sort of makes Code Red look rather trivial...


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## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

This has made me appreciate my family so much more and I hope that everyone takes a moment to count how lucky we are in general


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## twister (Sep 11, 2001)

I'm so much in shock and i pray for all of NY and all of America.  We are a GREAT nation and we will make it thru this.  Now is the best time to show our RED WHITE and BLUE and tell the rest of the world that they may have hit us hard but we will not give in!

Twister


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 11, 2001)

This was freaky, I thought It was a joke till I saw teh reports online at work since I did not have a TV at hand.... jeez!


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 11, 2001)

From the sounds of all of the news reports from the past several hours, it seems that whoever is responsible will be receiving a serious (and well deserved) ass whoopin' . . . and I say go get 'em. It strikes me as very bizarre that a group trying to sell others on its views would do something that would so obviously disgust almost the entire world. Chalk one up for catching more flies with honey.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 11, 2001)

For all of those who are interested, I will be starting a thread to discuss the proper response (both domestic and foreign) to this attack.

http://macosx.com/showthread.php?threadid=5756


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## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

> _Originally posted by davidbrit2 _
> *whoever is responsible will be receiving a serious (and well deserved) ass whoopin' . . . and I say go get 'em. *



If we go in and do some "Ass whoopin" what does that gain us, that makes us just like them, murders.  We need to bring these people to justice and show how in a civilized and democrtic society deals with terrorist not by going in and killing people, but by bringing these people to justice, I have said it before and Ill say it again, State sanctioned murder is still murder


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 11, 2001)

How does the death penalty factor into this ?


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## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

We have to hope that the US does do something stupid like go to war


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 11, 2001)

I think the only solution would be retaliation. Think about it - If somebody can organize the massacre of several thousand people, do you really think he'll care if someone drags him to court and says "now don't do that again?" He'll just reorganize troups, imprisoned or not, and do something else violent. At the very least the ringleader himself needs to be dealt with - we have to make an example of someone responsible, or nobody will be afraid to do something similar again. Our often nonsensical beaurocracy sure won't fill somebody with mortal fear - but nobody attacked the USA like this after the atomic bomb made a successful showing. I'm not saying we should use nukes again, but something effective should be done. State sanctioned murder may still be just that, but it's definitely a better solution than leaving the door open for further attacks on innocent victims.


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## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

NO in either situation we can not end terrorism but we can avoid becoming animals ourselves.  I understand everyones anger, I feel it and fear myself, and deep down I say get revenge, but revenge does not solve the problem.  We need to wake up and I hate to say it but increase our intelligence budget and if we even think of bringing Weapons of mass destruction ourselve (nukes) are we any better.  These are my opinions and I understand your opinions and feel where they come from I just hope everyone can at least understand my thoughts.


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## endian (Sep 11, 2001)

come to NY soapvox and breathe the smoke and we'll see if you feel the same way.


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## Soapvox (Sep 11, 2001)

But my convictions are solid, when my friend was murdered it did not change my resolve against the death penalty.  Like I said in past posts I want to get revenge, but I must also think with my mind.  My condolances go out to you and all who may have lost just as all of America has lost a piece of our innocence but my convictions must be strong or I am a false pacifist


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## acidtuch10 (Sep 12, 2001)

OK I am a little outraged ! I have served in Iraq - Bonsnia and a few other places in the middle east while in the USMC --- I was in a Wpns Plt. So I was usually at the front and in the sh!t.. If it wasn't for the radiation of nukes I would say launch them all there ! I have seen there anger for americans and it is unfortunate. I went there with an open heart ... I left full of hatred. For what I believe, have seen, have been involved with ---- I would stand tall behind Mr. Bush if he presses a button and wipes a peticular country of the map --- period.


Acid


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## kilowatt (Sep 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Soapvox _
> *
> 
> If we go in and do some "Ass whoopin" what does that gain us, that makes us just like them, murders. *



If you can find no distinction between murdering 10,000 Americans, and killing responsible parties, I pitty you.


We would not be 'just like them'. We would be simply speaking a language that they understand. Bottom line, the people who died yesterday (9/11, and I'm not including the terrorists here) died without even facing their attackers. They died innocent, and without cause.

(spell checked again at 5:52..)


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## Soapvox (Sep 12, 2001)

I never said that, I just said murder is murder.  There is a drastic difference in the killing of innocents, and killing the militants, but as a pacifist I cannot waver from the fact that justice does not equal murder in my book, but in a situation like this I don't think anyone is wrong in what they think the punishment the animals should receive short of nuclear deployment, just in my opinion *I* don't think murder is ok.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 12, 2001)

I hate to say this, but no matter what we feel and even though we do live in a democratic society, we have no say over how our government chooses to respond, I think we should all cool off. Find out who did this, and then decide how we feel about it then. Sound good guys?


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 12, 2001)

I agree that we need to wait for the official word regarding the responsible parties before we make any hasty judgements. Everyone seems to suspect Bin Laden the most, but who knows? It could even end up being American citizens like in Oklahoma (although it's not likely.) As soon as we find out for certain, then I think it's time for targeting the vengeful rage. I'm curious about what Bush has up his sleeve - he doesn't seem like the type you can piss off this badly and get away with it.


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## Myke (Sep 13, 2001)

I know you guys are going to find this comment offensive ...but as you say 'wake up, smell the coffee'.

First let me emphasise that THIS WAS A COMPLETELY INEXCUSABLE ACT. It was barbaric, inhumane ...words fail to capture the essence of such evil ...

BUT ...

How is it that none of you are asking WHY it happened?

Could it be that certain countries/groups are just a little p-----d off with the US of A?

Could it be that your foreign policy isn't all about being the white knight, charging to the rescue?

Even if you think that the US never puts a foot wrong overseas, surely you have to accept that there are lots of people out there who believe that you do? And they're not all crazy terrorists.

Revenge will not solve this problem. If your revenge is as severe as some of you are proposing, you will certainly make the situation worse.

There is only one Bin Laden - but there are plenty of other fanatics out there ready to die for WHAT THEY SEE as injustice.

A war will quickly escalate into a conflict that could engulf the world, with untold consequences.

If you really think international terrorism is going to die out because you hit it hard, think again. Violence always begets violence.

Far better to address the causes not the symptoms.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 13, 2001)

If the US lets terrorists define international policy, they have won. What makes people think that if we give in now, that they will not get mad over something else in the future, and commit more acts of violence? 

Just because violence begets violence, doesn't mean that peace can't also beget  violence. I know that you are only motovated by peace, but if terrorists had any idea of how valuable peace was, wouldn't they at least make an attempt to solve this diplomatically?


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## kilowatt (Sep 14, 2001)

Just remember, these are terrorists that *believe* that they will go to heaven if they kill an American. Anyone with that policy cannot understand peace.

Peace usually involvs a compromise. So what are we to do? Become less American? 

It is becoming quite clear who did this, and it is follish to believe that they even seek peace.


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## Kristjan (Sep 14, 2001)

USA can't do anything right now. If they bomb/nuke/send land troops to Afganistan it will only make things worse, the whole situation will become a regular war, and if they don't, It will make things worse, the terrorists have won. How far will this go? The terrorists have proven that they can do just about anything, and are willing to do so. What if America decides to go to war against bin Laden. What will stop them from doing the same thing again, and again? What will stop them from using biological weapons? I'm terribly, terribly scared, and I don't even live in America.

Being european I guess I see this from a different perspective than the rest of you. Although I get CNN now. All of europe held three silent minutes in the memory of the victims. I think most of Europe feels as we are in this together with you. I certanly do. America has much to be proud of, and you've helped us time and time again. It's time for us to give something back. I really hope my goverment will offer you our help.

I don't know 'rharder' personaly, but I understand he works at the Pentagon. Does anyone know if he's ok?


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 14, 2001)

By definition, a terrorist is someone who will do anything within their power to scare others into listening to their demands. If bin Laden had a way of getting a nuke to NYC he would have done. The chance of something like this happening again for a while is low. These things take years to plan and carry out, that why this one surprised everyone.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 14, 2001)

I think and hope that rharder is fine 
I am sure that the pentagon staff has its hands tied at the moment  with collection of strategic data, as well as recovery of data and classified material that might have seen the light of day with the crash.

Hope to see rharder soon 

Admiral


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## monty (Sep 14, 2001)

Good on you Soapvox! I am in favour of careful, planned, surgical retaliation but it is good to see people standing up with what they believe in. That is what democracy is all about. If we loose sight of this, what are we fighting for?

As an Australian know this: the response to this attack here is indescribable. My personal view is that we need some kind of show of force. Sanctions will not help this time. (did they ever?) We need to send a clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated by the world. But we better make damn sure we get it right. Imagine the outrage if America and the Coalition attacked the wrong people! America would quickly loose world support if this happened.

If the perpetrators of this crime thought that this would somehow weaken America and its allies they are wrong! Their act has pointed 95% of the world's military assets against them. They have united the free world.

peter


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## Soapvox (Sep 14, 2001)

My aunt works at the pentagon and she is alright, if anyone has heard from rharder please post in here to let us know, whoever rharder is I hope you are ok


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## Myke (Sep 14, 2001)

I  discovered today that someone who works yards from me in my office in a small Scottish town has an aunt who is 'missing' in the aftermath of this terrible crime.

So the tentacles spread far and wide ...

Kilowatt asks what should you do, 'become less American'?

Well, whilst there are some of these fanatics who hate you for your nationality, most of them hate you for what they think you have done to them.

So, no, don't become less American, just try to win a few hearts and minds.

Analyse the foreign policy pursued by your Government, especially in the Middle East and ask yourselves, what are we doing that these people are so angry about?

Remember it isn't just the terrorists who are angry. They are sustained - even glorified - by ordinary people in these countries. 

That's for the long term. It will take time. Meanwhile pursue the perpetrators though the Courts and show dignity, restraint and humanity.

Don't fuel anti-US feeling - and above all don't give the terorists the chance to say 'they are no better than us'.


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## Matrix Agent (Sep 14, 2001)

Rharder has made some posts as of today, so he's ok. Does he work in the Pentagon?


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## Myke (Sep 17, 2001)

I thought you all might be interested in this link to a broad range of world opinion ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1547000/1547292.stm


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## martinatkinson (Sep 19, 2001)

Hello!

just got this photo in the email today.  Thought I might share it with you guys.

Have a great day!

WorthAThousandWords.jpg


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 19, 2001)

beautiful


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