# 10.3.3 exceeds expectations...



## andychrist (Jan 31, 2004)

Any idea when they will be released?  I'd be thrilled with a minimum font size control that really worked-- a lot of utilities offer that feature now but even the developers admit they can't overcome current short-comings of Safari in Panther.
ThankX for this encouraging bit of news!


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## octane (Feb 1, 2004)

More news:



> 10.3.3 and Safari 1.2 receive ever-increasing kudos. The gamers have reported in and the thumbs are overwhelmingly pointing skyward. Apple has revamped both the 2D (Quartz) and 3D (Quartz Extreme, OpenGL) graphics engines in 10.3.3, with a particular focus on game-related OpenGL functions.
> 
> Frame rates are up, and the OS X gamers lucky enough to get their hands on a developer seed are smiling. It will most likely be a few (2-3) weeks the rest of us get to don this particular grin.
> 
> Safari 1.2's performance is said to seem even greater than it really is, when measured by stopwatch. Downloads are markedly faster when pushing high bitrates (3Mbps+), and the Resume feature smoothly solves what had been a frequent gripe of even die-hard Safari lovers. Highly complex pages with lots of graphics -- notably those that employ Apache's gzip compression feature -- load in what dozens of readers have described as "half the time."


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## chevy (Feb 1, 2004)

We'll see if the gaming part will be as good as pretended. This has always been a disappointment, so I hope this time they have done it correctly.

The Resume feature of Safari is really a needed one !


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## octane (Feb 1, 2004)

chevy said:
			
		

> The Resume feature of Safari is really a needed one !



The feature I like most -- and I'd like to think my feedback to Apple helped this one into this update -- is the option to have a clicked link in an application launch in a new tab in an existing window...


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## soulseek (Feb 1, 2004)

chevy said:
			
		

> The Resume feature of Safari is really a needed one !



it is a really good feature. and i was really happy to read that safari1.2 has it.
but i see myself not really using it having a 10mbit connection. everythin really downloads in less than a minute!


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## Ripcord (Feb 1, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> it is a really good feature. and i was really happy to read that safari1.2 has it.
> but i see myself not really using it having a 10mbit connection. everythin really downloads in less than a minute!



Sure, sure.

Of course, I'd be surprised if most sites, particularly during peak times, are allocating 10Mbps stream to you.

Also, I'm assuming you haven't been downloading any large images lately - SUSE 9.0 would take something like 30 minutes at 10Mbps...


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## Krevinek (Feb 1, 2004)

10.3.3 isn't too bad, although I don't have a machine capable of testing the 3D capabilities out on. Things pretty much plod along like normal, although large windows like a full-size Safari window can be dragged a little faster than I am used to on a 333 Lombard. I am unimpressed, personally, but YMMV.


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## lnoelstorr (Feb 2, 2004)

Anyone know if the new Safari has caching options?


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## octane (Feb 2, 2004)

lnoelstorr said:
			
		

> Anyone know if the new Safari has caching options?



That's a good point.

I often find myself floating around the preferences looking for the: 'check pages every time' option[duh!]

Knowing Apple, they may well move an option like that into the Network pane in System Preferences...


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## Cat (Feb 2, 2004)

Safari already has some caching options/controls in the (hidden) Debug menu: you can enable it with:
	
	



```
defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1
```
Quit and relaunch, you should see the menu right after Help, go to Show Caches Window, there you can empty caches manually or disable the WebCore cache.


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## Randman (Feb 2, 2004)

Use Safari Enhancer and disable the cache. Works much better that way.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/10482


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## lnoelstorr (Feb 2, 2004)

Cheers for the cache tips guys.  I've currently disabled the cache by replacing the cache directory with another file.  It'd be nice to do it another way though.


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## octane (Feb 2, 2004)

Still a few wrinkles left to be ironed out:



> More 10.3.3/Safari 1.2 seed details: Although we've heard very little about any problems with the new builds, friends in Cupertino report that the company's bug reporting servers are abuzz with several issues affecting a small number of users but can be fairly serious, including data corruption on many USB storage devices, Date and Time may repeatedly default to the PST time zone despite being set to another zone, and 3D games/applications will crash badly on startup for some testers with nVIDIA graphics cards -- particularly the GeForce 4MX.
> 
> However for most, the system update is noticeably snappier, games can be quite significantly faster, bugs or other errors are negligible, and Safari 1.2 is a dream. After adjusting to its new link-tabbing feature, testers almost universally report wondering how they ever lived without it. More reports over the week ahead; if no more show-stopper bugs are found, Apple could wrap up development in as little as 10 days rather than the 14-20 otherwise predicted!


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## Satcomer (Feb 2, 2004)

Networking? Will anybody report if Apple has fixed networking in 10.3.3? Please report


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## cybergoober (Feb 2, 2004)

Satcomer said:
			
		

> Networking? Will anybody report if Apple has fixed networking in 10.3.3? Please report



Err uh Could you be more specific? 

i.e.:
Windows interoperability?
FTP via Finder?
Browsing the network via the "Network" item in the Finder?

Because "Networking", as it were,  in Mac OS X has worked fine for me from day one


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## Captain Code (Feb 2, 2004)

I haven't had any problems with SMB in 10.3.2, so what is there to fix??


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## fryke (Feb 2, 2004)

Maybe he meant networking as in "can't find any friends in good positions..."? ;-) Networking's as fine (or better) as in 10.3.2 so far for me.


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## Satcomer (Feb 2, 2004)

cybergoober said:
			
		

> Err uh Could you be more specific?
> 
> i.e.:
> Windows interoperability?
> ...


Say that you are in a huge (a company or university) mixed network. Now, You want to find all the different servers (NT, 2000, Mac, Sun, Linux) in the network. Now, you know they are there and open to download & upload. Now, the Finder Network window button does find these networks (all which have the same group of user profiles & passwords - provided to users) but try to exchange these files. Find that IP without memorizing ALL the IP's or machine names!  Jaguar found these machines effortless then you could mount any chosen (and auto found) sever. Panther does not do that! With hundreds of severs one will have to have a master list of all IP's or machine specific domain names. 

The Finder network window button only lets a user browse. It also does not list the ip or domain name (unless it is another Mac).  Jaguar's networking was almost legendary. Apple took a step backward in networking (on large scale) in Panther as compared to Jaguar. Take a look at this page and tell me if you find networking ( in large networks, not the home 3 to 5 computer network) better.


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## hulkaros (Feb 3, 2004)

Also, there are serious "problems" with Internet Sharing in Panther! In many cases where a router (+hub and/or switch perhaps) while running Jaguar it could share the Internet to ANY other Mac (running anything from OS 9.x.x to OS X.x.x) and of course Windows, Linux, etc. without breaking sweat, under Panther this Internet Sharing can be from not a simple task to, simply, a cannot do one! 

All this, while running the same clients and having the same hardware as the Jaguar host. The only thing that changes is the host which "updates" to Panther... If you revert the host back to Jaguar the Internet shares just fine!

Under this Panther "problem" all other network connections/shares (wired+wireless) work just fine except the Internet Sharing which is a no go! 

This of course, happened to me as well as to some of our clients 

Last, this happens even with all the current updates of Panther installed!


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## cybergoober (Feb 3, 2004)

Satcomer said:
			
		

> Say that you are in a huge (a company or university) mixed network. Now, You want to find all the different servers (NT, 2000, Mac, Sun, Linux) in the network. Now, you know they are there and open to download & upload. Now, the Finder Network window button does find these networks (all which have the same group of user profiles & passwords - provided to users) but try to exchange these files. Find that IP without memorizing ALL the IP's or machine names!  Jaguar found these machines effortless then you could mount any chosen (and auto found) sever. Panther does not do that! With hundreds of severs one will have to have a master list of all IP's or machine specific domain names.
> 
> The Finder network window button only lets a user browse. It also does not list the ip or domain name (unless it is another Mac).  Jaguar's networking was almost legendary. Apple took a step backward in networking (on large scale) in Panther as compared to Jaguar. Take a look at this page and tell me if you find networking ( in large networks, not the home 3 to 5 computer network) better.



WOW. 
OK. 
I wasn't doubting you. Just wasn't sure what you meant by the *extremely vague*, "Is networking fixed?" query. 
I never said there wasn't anything wrong with Panther's networking. Nor did I say it was better. Just was wondering what aspect(s) you were having issues with.

Let's say I'm in a huge mixed network (which I am BTW - though I'm not sure what you would consider huge, we're about 10,000 or so machines). I am able to browse -and- connect to these other machines -as well as- move files back and forth, given I have the proper permissions, via the Finder Network item.

I suppose this has more to do with how our network is configured. 
All the hosts on our network have an IP address that is tied to a hostname. All the hosts have their machine names set to the DNS hostname assigned to the machine. So even if you couldn't connect through the Network item in the Finder, you would be able to connect via other means because the name you see via Finder is the actual DNS hostname of the machine, rather than some meaningless made-up name.

So, yes. For me networking in Panther _has_ improved over Jaguar.

Guess I'm fortunate that our network is setup so strictly

Hope Apple gets this straightened out for the others


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## Ripcord (Feb 3, 2004)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> I haven't had any problems with SMB in 10.3.2, so what is there to fix??



SMB (both client and server) have a very large number of fairly serious problems in 10.3.2, go to Apple's support page and browse around the Networking Discussions group to catch a few of them...


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## Captain Code (Feb 3, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> SMB (both client and server) have a very large number of fairly serious problems in 10.3.2, go to Apple's support page and browse around the Networking Discussions group to catch a few of them...



I guess I'm lucky cause I can transfer between 10.3.2 w/ all the latest updates at 8-10MB per second


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## Satcomer (Feb 3, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> Maybe he meant networking as in "can't find any friends in good positions..."? ;-) Networking's as fine (or better) as in 10.3.2 so far for me.



I don't want to get into a personal flame war here. However, in my line of work I jump network to network and I can say with certainty that Jaguar was superior networking compared to Panther. I speaking this from a client position. Yes, Panther will network. But like I said before (and hulk somewhat verifies) Jaguar was and is still superior to Panther in the networking sense.


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## mindbend (Feb 3, 2004)

I also preferred Jaguar's networking model a bit better. I have, however, come to accept Panther's model and in the end, it works fine for my meager networking needs.


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## fryke (Feb 3, 2004)

I apologise for making fun of your comment, satcomer. It just sounded rather funny to me, vague as it was. And I also didn't understand quite what you meant, as I never had any networking problems with Panther - and I move my iBook from home network to on-the-road GPRS networking to a company network, too --- and I've always found Panther's networking preferences to be top notch. It seems that your experiences have been entirely different, though, and I guess it must depend on specific settings of the different networks. Maybe I live in Panther-friendly worlds...

Again: Sorry...


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## hulkaros (Feb 4, 2004)

As I wrote previously people, the problem that I run into with Panther (but not with Jaguar) is that while using the same network infrastructure as the Jaguar it isn't functioning correctly as a host...  Not as a client but as a host!  The problem in my personal experiences with Panther is when it is the host of the network and not just a tiny client here and there  

While anyone can say that "I do not have any problems with Panther's networking" or "Panther's networking is superior to Jaguar's" this is far from some truths out there 

There are workarounds, solutions and then again maybe not until some Panther update later on (10.3.3 perhaps?) to those Panther hosting problems but until then, in some cases, Jaguar is a much better host OS than Panther! Maybe Panther Server is the best solution but that costs LOADS of money


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## Ripcord (Feb 4, 2004)

hulkaros said:
			
		

> As I wrote previously people, the problem that I run into with Panther (but not with Jaguar) is that while using the same network infrastructure as the Jaguar it isn't functioning correctly as a host...  Not as a client but as a host!



<analocity>In SMB networking terminology, you're talking about a CIFS "server".  A "host" is *any* system on the network.</analocity>


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## cybergoober (Feb 4, 2004)

hulkaros said:
			
		

> Maybe Panther Server is the best solution



Maybe you're on to something there


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 17, 2004)

Will we see the 10.3.3 update this week?


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## fryke (Feb 17, 2004)

There hasn't been another seed for ADC Select members since the flawed one (iMac 20" troubles). I've been using 7F24 for some time now, haven't found many bugs - but some glitches. There are known issues in the build, so I'd expect at least two or three other builds before a release. I'd say we can expect another build this week for developers, but not a release.


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## octane (Feb 17, 2004)

Whether this is related to the problem Hulkaros has bee grappling with [sorry! I couldn't resist that] but I was at my friends with my iBook and I was trying to get onto his wireless network over DHCP.

Nothing doing for quite some time. Then my friend looks through some tool in DOS on his Windows 2000 machine and he saw that my iBook was saying: 'I'm having this IP address' and the pc was saying: 'no, you will ask politely, _then_ I will give you one'.

This was the the problem for ages until my iBook happened to drop on the IP address the pc had set aside for it...


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## fryke (Feb 17, 2004)

That's just a normal DHCP issue. Usually, your iBook would instead inform you that the IP was already used. However, you can easily drop and renew IPs for DHCP in the Network preference pane.


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## chevy (Feb 17, 2004)

I've just installed 7F24, I gain some 10-20% on OpenGL games. Not enough to play UT2003 or UT2004 on my iMac.
For the rest (Safari 1.2), you already have it.


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## soulseek (Feb 17, 2004)

not enought to play UT2K3 on ur iMac ?
and thats a 1ghz imac ?

how come ?
im working on a 1ghz powerbook 521 RAM .. and unreal 2K3 is really good on it. graphics are really good, and it plays quite fast with those graphics!!!!. it only gets a little sluggish rarely...!!!


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 17, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> not enought to play UT2K3 on ur iMac ?
> and thats a 1ghz imac ?
> 
> how come ?
> im working on a 1ghz powerbook 521 RAM .. and unreal 2K3 is really good on it. graphics are really good, and it plays quite fast with those graphics!!!!. it only gets a little sluggish rarely...!!!



watch this game on a highend pc and you will know what is meant by "quite fast". I have a very similar book like you and it's really not running quite fast. It works and appears ok, but you can't seriously play it. I think you just need to see the game run on a good machine to compare. I did and that's why I am hardly waiting even for those 10-20% more openGl performance.


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## fryke (Feb 17, 2004)

ADC (connect.apple.com) is down atm. Sounds like an update's coming?


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## octane (Feb 18, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> ADC (connect.apple.com) is down atm. Sounds like an update's coming?



So when you've been quiet for a while, we can safely assume one of two things: 1) you're deeply engrossed in the update and too busy to post, or 2) the update has utterly and irreparably screwed your mac and you simply can't post...


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## fryke (Feb 18, 2004)

or... it wasn't even there as I went to sleep, nor when I woke up


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 18, 2004)

Hehe!
So? How is it?


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## Ripcord (Feb 18, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Hehe!
> So? How is it?



??  ...Not...There, maybe??


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 18, 2004)

Oops! I thought it was there after fryke took his breakfast 
Sorry, my mistake


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## Ripcord (Feb 18, 2004)

=)


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

There's a new one now. 10.3.3 7F32. Installing as we speak. I'll report after restarting (hopefully). ;-)


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

I've written about it at http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/02/19#20040219_1033_7f32 ... Not much to say about it from seed notes, though. There are a lot of fixed issues and one or two remaining known issues (one being the missing installation info text). They're talking about a 'next build', which means this is quite definitely not the one that will come to Software Update. I hope it won't take another 3 weeks until the next build, though. ;-)


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

Restarted alright. Everything seems okay so far. As I haven't had any issues with 7F24, I couldn't really say what's better this time just yet.


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## Cat (Feb 19, 2004)

ThinkSecret said:
			
		

> The seed is labeled build 7F32 and is Apple's second widespread seed of the Panther update. In a seed note, Apple provided a brief list of "major areas of change." The list of updated components included Core OS, Carbon, Cocoa, Printing, USB, Graphics and Imaging, and High Level Toolbox.
> 
> Apple also recommended that developers focus their testing efforts on FireWire, USB, audio/sound, and graphics, including OpenGL games.


mmmh ... OpenGL ... the question on all our minds right now is: "How much fps do we gain in the UT 2k4 Demo?"


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## soulseek (Feb 19, 2004)

talkin about open GL... i mentioned earlier that UT2K3 plays quite good on my machine. on a good resolution is quite smooth.
BUT jedi Academy (and outcast last year) are quite slow on my powerbook. especially jedi Academy can only be played on a low resolution. Now thats a game id like to try with 10.3.3


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## hulkaros (Feb 19, 2004)

Academy could be slow because you enabled one/many graphic option(s) which your PowerBook's GPU cannot process without taking a performance hit to say the least... Try to play with the graphic options and not just resolutions! And maybe just maybe you may find out a different truth 

Game resolutions aren't always the problem


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## soulseek (Feb 19, 2004)

i like the graphic options


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

Well, then live with subpar FPS, soulseek!  This might be okay if you're playing alone, but playing against others in a network lower FPS means you die faster than your opponents.

Is the game using OpenGL? Then it _should_ see an improvement. However it depends on the actual code, of course. Guess you'll be able and try in a few weeks.


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## cybergoober (Feb 19, 2004)

Has the Finder window search field issue been resolved?

Haven't had a chance to install it yet.


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## Viro (Feb 19, 2004)

> Is the game using OpenGL? Then it _should_ see an improvement. However it depends on the actual code, of course. Guess you'll be able and try in a few weeks.



Every 3D game on OS X uses OpenGL, unless it uses software rendering.


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

Please, if you ask for 'issues', also explain what you mean. I haven't had a 'Finder search field issue' in 10.3.x, personally.


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## cybergoober (Feb 19, 2004)

My bad. 10.3.3 7F24 introduced the following:

Open a Finder window.
Click on your Applications folder.
Type in "addr", without quotes, into the Search Field (assuming you have it turned on).
Wait.
Wait some more.
Nothing happens.
Hit [return] or [enter].
Still nothing.

_edit_ - This happens in any Finder window on any directory.

In 10.3.2 doing the same results in live search results being generated (a la iTunes).

Obviously nothing major. Just curious as to whether that had been addressed yet or not. I'll know myself shortly


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Feb 19, 2004)

cyvergoober: mine works just fine following those instructions precisely.  The search for "addr" turns up 104 items, though, and it took the better part of 10 seconds for all of them to appear.  Granted, items didn't start showing up until it found about 20 items, but it still works (and it works in list, icon and column views as well)!


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## octane (Feb 19, 2004)

I've got to say, the Finder search is bit odd.

You can't just search within the current window / column, you can only do that if you select everything first .. what?!


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

I don't get that. In column view, I can select a folder, choose 'selection' in the search field and get results from that selected item. Works just fine. I guess I didn't use it in 7F24, so I didn't know about the issue. It's solved, I'd say. What do you mean exactly, octane? Or are you using a different build of Mac OS X?


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## octane (Feb 19, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> I don't get that. In column view, I can select a folder, choose 'selection' in the search field and get results from that selected item. Works just fine. I guess I didn't use it in 7F24, so I didn't know about the issue. It's solved, I'd say. What do you mean exactly, octane? Or are you using a different build of Mac OS X?



On both my iBook and my G4, I have to actually select all of the items in a folder before I can search through them...


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Of _course_ you have to select something before you can scan a selection... I'm still wondering whether your bug (I don't get it) is 10.3.3 specific or is from an older build (then this is the wrong thread, maybe...).


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## octane (Feb 19, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Of _course_ you have to select something before you can scan a selection... I'm still wondering whether your bug (I don't get it) is 10.3.3 specific or is from an older build (then this is the wrong thread, maybe...).



OK, if I wanted to search a folder called: 'Octane' and this folder contained 333 items, I would first have to select all 333 items in the folder: 'Octane' _before_ I can search through those files.

If I didn't select all 333 items, I get a blank search results field...


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

okay. this works like a charm for me in Mac OS X 10.3.3 7F32 on my iBook 12" G3/800. (still don't know your build...)


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## octane (Feb 19, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> okay. this works like a charm for me in Mac OS X 10.3.3 7F32 on my iBook 12" G3/800. (still don't know your build...)



This is just going to annoy you now, I know it will .. I'm not running the recent 10.3.3 build -- I don't _do_ beta stuff anymore .. not with my own hardware anyway! -- I'm running plain old 10.3.2...


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## fryke (Feb 19, 2004)

It only annoys me because of one thing: You should have taken the question to "System & Software" instead of a thread about 10.3.3 - unless you meant to ask whether this specific problem had been solved in the new build. I'm a helpful person, so I've tried over and over again to reproduce the behaviour. If you had MENTIONED what build you were running in your initial post about the problem, you could have saved me some nerves... ;-)

But I'm not _that_ annoyed. You've done worse before.


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## octane (Feb 19, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> But I'm not _that_ annoyed. You've done worse before.



I wouldn't have mentioned it until I found you lot flapping your lips off about it 

Anyway, 10.3.3 will be in my Software Update soon enough!..


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## fryke (Feb 26, 2004)

http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/02/26#20040226_10337f34 - Mac OS X 7F34 has been seeded...


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 26, 2004)

hopefully there will be soon a new build available for the normal ppl as well...
Did you find any improvement in opengl, Fryke?


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## fryke (Feb 26, 2004)

i don't do open gl, so i couldn't really say... only thing that definitely uses open gl i'm using is a screensaver, but it doesn't even show fps... someone else has to report on game enhancements... but i'd guess that they're bugfixing now and that the improvements from 7F32 still apply.


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## Captain Code (Feb 26, 2004)

> - new ATI and NVIDIA graphics drivers



Sweet, maybe now my geForce 2 MX will work with Panther


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## soulseek (Feb 26, 2004)

does itunes visualizations use openGl ?


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 26, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> does itunes visualizations use openGl ?


Yes and you can visualize the fsp as well - I think.


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 26, 2004)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> Sweet, maybe now my geForce 2 MX will work with Panther


Huh? It's not working with panther?


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## Captain Code (Feb 26, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Huh? It's not working with panther?



Nope, it causes screen tearing and window contents not being moved with the window.
Also the scroll bars don't refresh properly when you scroll a page or another type of scroll box.


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## cybergoober (Feb 26, 2004)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Huh? It's not working with panther?



It works in machines that shipped with them, but not earlier machines like Captain Code's Sawtooth(?).


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## Captain Code (Feb 26, 2004)

Yeah, it won't work in the Sawtooth's.  Also the screen flickers a bit when the dock pops up, which is strange.


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## chabig (Feb 27, 2004)

Octane,

You're not doing it right. Never in Panther have you had to select all of the items in a folder to search through them. In the screenshot you posted earlier, you had a single file selected. Of course that won't work. You won't find anything in a selection of one! You need to select the enclosing folder if you want the items within.

Chris


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

I didn't even _think_ of this possibility, chabig, when I tried to help Octane with his search-problem... Well, that certainly clears things up.  Yep, Finder will search the selected item(s).


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## octane (Feb 27, 2004)

chabig said:
			
		

> Octane, You're not doing it right.



Yes I am doing it right!

I've been through this time after time after time.

Yes I do select the enclosing folder and it _still_ doesn't work.

The only way for it to work is if you select _all_ of the items in the folder.

I've proved this to a friend of mine. He's seen it, it's been noted...


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## wtmcgee (Feb 27, 2004)

octane, i looked to see if you were running 10.3.3 or what, but maybe you have some sort of prefs issue borked on your machine.  the 'normal' behavior for searching a selection is you can select a folder and it will search the enclosed items.  maybe try renaming your finder prefs and trying again?

i know it works for me and most everyone else, so i'm trying to figure out why it's not working for you...


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## octane (Feb 27, 2004)

wtmcgee said:
			
		

> octane, i looked to see if you were running 10.3.3 or what, but maybe you have some sort of prefs issue borked on your machine.  the 'normal' behavior for searching a selection is you can select a folder and it will search the enclosed items.  maybe try renaming your finder prefs and trying again?
> 
> i know it works for me and most everyone else, so i'm trying to figure out why it's not working for you...



Ah, thoughtful advice, a breath of fresh air.

Thanks for that. I'll give it a shot.

No I'm not running the latest unreleased update and I am aware that the Finder search shouldn't be doing what it is, but it does, which is a pain.

Besides, I hardly ever use the Finder to actually find things.

I'm far more likely to be looking for a function or a variable than a file -- such is the efficiency of how I lay out my work folders...


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

Okay... If it's really bothering you that this doesn't work as intended, please create a thread about it in 'System & Software'.


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## octane (Feb 27, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> Okay... If it's really bothering you that this doesn't work as intended, please create a thread about it in 'System & Software'.



Fryke, I know you probably mean well in your own inimitable way, but I'm not all that concerned about it. Certainly not to the extent that I'd want to create a new thread about it.

It didn't bother me until you guys started badgering me about it .. then it bothered me!

I thought I was doing it wrong, but whatever I tried did the same stupid thing. In the end, I just gave up.

It's no big deal for me. Like I said, I hardly ever use the Finder to .. well, find stuff!

Let it go .. please!


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

(that was my intention, octane.)

Back on topic: Mac OS X 10.3.3 7F34 feels finished to me. Didn't find any bugs since I'm running it. And the small ones I've had with 7F32 appear to be fixed. Or I just haven't met them anymore. Looking forward to the release now...


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## Zammy-Sam (Feb 27, 2004)

so, what do you think, Fryke? Next week official release?


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## Ripcord (Feb 27, 2004)

Please?


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## fryke (Feb 27, 2004)

Couldn't really say. I think we could see another Saturday night developer seed which would take testing well into next week - or just a release of 7F34 early next week. But that's just guessing, really.


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## mindbend (Feb 27, 2004)

Hardly ever use the Finder to find stuff!!!! Aghhh! (Charlie Brown style yell). Inline Finder search is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


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## Arden (Feb 28, 2004)

So, if 10.3.3 feels finished now, does that mean we won't see 10.3.4? 

Octane:  If you find yourself searching for content more than structure (data in files more than the files themselves), then check out BBEdit Lite and it's amazing search functions.  They've helped me quite a bit while working on a certain forum-based website with something like 10 different themes installed.


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## octane (Feb 28, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> Octane:  If you find yourself searching for content more than structure (data in files more than the files themselves), then check out BBEdit Lite and it's amazing search functions...



Way ahead of you there, fella!

been using it for quite a while, now.

Without wanting to sound too pompous, with the way I have my computer set up, plus a bloody good memory, I don't search for stuff, I know where it all is!

And like I said, I'm far more likely to be looking for a variable or a function than a file.

I honestly can't remember the last time I searched for a file...


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## uoba (Feb 28, 2004)

> Without wanting to sound too pompous, with the way I have my computer set up, plus a bloody good memory, I don't search for stuff, I know where it all is!


Pompous 



> I honestly can't remember the last time I searched for a file...


... Thought you had a good memory?


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## octane (Feb 28, 2004)

uoba said:
			
		

> ... Thought you had a good memory?



Excellent! So the irony wasn't lost.

Anyway, why shouldn't we see a 10.3.4?

The big point update [10.4] has to be months away at least...


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## fryke (Feb 28, 2004)

Yep. I think a 10.3.4 will eventually be issued by Apple. However, we'll have to see. If only security updates are needed, Apple won't give out another x.x.x version. But for new hardware and bug fixes, Apple usually does. But hey: 10.3.3 is not even out yet. ;-)


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## octane (Feb 28, 2004)

This just in :



> Mac OS X 10.3.3 Update build 7F34 seeded: Apple's hopes for a speedy release of the 10.3.3 Update, in no small part to pave the way for faster PowerMacs and Powerbooks which require the update for support of their new chipsets and features, are pinned on build 7F34 which was seeded this afternoon. So far reports are overwhelmingly positive; notably, 100% of the 3D rendering bugs seed in 7F32 appear to have been squashed. For the most part, the two-build advance has consisted heavily of bug fixes but also includes a new version of Safari as we predicted last week.


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## Satcomer (Feb 28, 2004)

Well, I predict that it will be at least another two weeks before 10.3.3 is released. However, my psychic abilities have been wrong it the past. ::alien::


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 1, 2004)

tonight or tomorrow night maybe?


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## Ripcord (Mar 2, 2004)

It better be soon, I'm chomping at the bit for OpenGL and SMB improvements...


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## Ripcord (Mar 3, 2004)

When did 10.3.2 come out?


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## Ripcord (Mar 3, 2004)

Fryke - do you know if the problem with SMB passwords not being saved in the keychain correctly has been fixed?

In current versions, when you connect to an SMB resource and are prompted for a password, you have the option to "Save to Keychain".  However, OS X never uses these again in the future (supposedly because they were "saved incorrectly" to the keychain).  Are you familiar with the problem I'm talking about, and is it gone with 10.3.3?


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## MacMuppet (Mar 3, 2004)

Ripcord, I am having similar issues with this. Seems to work better when you drop Keychain into startup items, but still not working for me properly, still have smb: login wondows coming up with the Domain, my Short Name, but no surname or password (of course if it had the password it wouldnt come up at all). However for all I know I could be doing something wrong, or it could be our cobbled-together windows network, so I haven't complained too volubly.
Is this a know bug then? 
I know that network navigation has got a bit harder since Jaguar (thanks for that window-script Octane), but its been slightly improved with each update hasnt it?


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## uoba (Mar 3, 2004)

SMB Keychain storage has been fine for me, but this is using a Linux SMB fileshare.


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## fryke (Mar 4, 2004)

I also only use it with Linux, and it seems to work fine...


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## Imagine (Mar 5, 2004)

Fryke,

Are there any major Firewire improvements in 7F34?

Thanks
Dean


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## fryke (Mar 5, 2004)

7F38's been released last night (for me European). FireWire: Yes. They fixed some bugs involving FW copying and responsiveness according to the notes... Haven't tried much about it, though. http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/03/05#20040305_7f38 (For 7F38 news. Not much, though...)


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 5, 2004)

update your signature, Fryke!


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## fryke (Mar 5, 2004)

woops, sorry.  why the heck doesn't that auto-update? ;-) ... well, i just had installed the updater and rebooted, so i guess there's an excuse. no obvious bugs in this build so far.


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## Ripcord (Mar 5, 2004)

The IBM story is really interesting, especially the comment about "keeping Intel out of the Apple G5".  We should probably start another thread, but was Apple really that close to going Intel??


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## monktus (Mar 5, 2004)

Is there any difference in network browsing in 10.3.3? That's the one thing in Panther that's been annoying me, accessing windows machines still requires the connect to server dialog in practice.


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## Ripcord (Mar 5, 2004)

This apple support article, by the way, describes the problem I still have with 10.3.2 on each of my machines.  The fact that it has been around for so long, is such an obviously broken component and still hasn't been fixed it partly what really irks me.

I can't imagine why it'd be any different when connecting to Linux machines, unless you're connecting via NFS or something - or perhaps you use the same user/password on the Linux Samba system as on your OS X system, so the NTLM credentials passed work on the remote system without having to create a Keychain key...  (Or maybe you just have guest access turned on on the Linux servers)


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## Imagine (Mar 6, 2004)

I've been reading about 10.3.3, but there seems to be quite a few unseeded versions, 7F24, 7F32, now 7F34. Anyone know if this is the release version?

Thx
Dean


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## cybergoober (Mar 6, 2004)

Wasn't 7F38 just seeded on Thursday?


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 6, 2004)

Check our this:
http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42068


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## fryke (Mar 9, 2004)

(Threads were merged, so the above link takes you actually here now.)

Okay, reviving the thread, so we can discuss 10.3.3 here again instead of that other thread about this thread not being available. ;-)

7F38 is the latest build so far, and no 10.3.3 build has been released to the public, only to ADC Select and Premier members.


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## fryke (Mar 9, 2004)

If you want to catch up on the newsbits about each build, you'll find a lot of those on macrumors.com, thinksecret.com and on macnews.net.tc: http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/index.html?find=10.3.3&plugin=find - This link actually searches macnews.net.tc for '10.3.3'.


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## fryke (Mar 10, 2004)

Apple has seeded 10.3.3 7F40 to developers. Short message at http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/03/10#20040310_7f40 ... Not much new, though.


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 10, 2004)

looks like we are pretty close to the official release.. any new rumors?


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## fryke (Mar 10, 2004)

Nope, nothing new, really.


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## Jeferz (Mar 10, 2004)

cybergoober said:
			
		

> Err uh Could you be more specific?
> 
> i.e.:
> Windows interoperability?
> ...



Then you are one of the few ...


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## fryke (Mar 10, 2004)

Seems like. I hear from a lot of people with problems in the networking area with Panther. However, I just can't confirm any real issues. Some miss browsing from Cmd-K (it's back in 10.3.3 but basically just opens a Finder window at /Network..., which really _should_ offer the same things...), which I never quite understood.

However, I understand that if so many people complain that there must be a problem, whether I can see it or not...


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## cybergoober (Mar 11, 2004)

Jeferz said:
			
		

> Then you are one of the few ...



But what *exactly* are you referring to?

"Networking" is a very broad, general term to use when the problems seem to be in certain explicit areas. For all I know, you're having problems configuring WEP with your Mac's AirPort card and a Linksys wireless router, thus "Networking" is "broken" for you.

For what I do in my day-to-day routine:
-Web browsing, email, IM, ftp, mounting AFP-SMB-WebDAV shares, Remote Desktop, remote server administration etc-
"Networking" for me is, and has been, ROCK-solid from day one.
Again, I think my lack of problems has more to do with how the network I'm on is configured/maintained. I'm not denying there are problems. Just that I'm not seeing them.

If you want to know if something *in particular* has been addressed, you need to ask something a little more descriptive than "Is networking fixed?" Give an example and the steps you take when you run into problems and someone may be able to try this and report back. Otherwise, you might as well ask if the dude that coded the Finder ftp drinks Mountain Dew or Mr. Pibb.


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## Ripcord (Mar 11, 2004)

I've found that the majority of "networking" problems that people complain about have revolved around SMB share browsing, connection, etc.

See my link to the Apple article for example of the one that bugs me the most.
Some others:
- When making a connection from a windows machine to OS X 10.3.2 to print, for some reason OS X attempts to make a CIFS connection BACK to the Windows machine.  If it is unable to for some reason (like I have firewall software running on my machine, which is required if I'm VPNed into work - I *can't* shut it off), OS X simply doesn't respond to the printing request.  Eventually (45 seconds later) Windows times out and tries again.  User simply sees a hung printer dialog box.  This doesn't happen when connecting to other Windows machines.
- The browser is spotty in finding machines in Workgroup, NT4 domain, and AD domain environments.  For some people this is worse than others.  I have about a 50% success rate in "finding" machines in my workgroup at home.
- The browser used when selecting printers will not display more than a few hundred machines.  In my case that means I can't select my print server at work since OS X only displays up through systems starting with the letter D, and my print server starts with the letter S
- Performance while copying (if OS X is a client) is extremely slow, at least for me.  For some reason OS X throws in 50ms pauses 10-15 times a second, meaning 50-75% of time is simply spent "idle" for no good reason.  This happens on two machines of mine, probably the third too.
- I constantly get "the share you're connected to is unavailable.  Do you want to disconnect?" (or whatever it is) dialog.  I've looked at the network traffic while this is happening, there's NO reason for OS X to think the share's unavailable.
- Others, but I think you get the point =)


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## knighthawk (Mar 11, 2004)

I would really appreciate it if there were improved security features for Safari.  There are several websites that my wife needs to use on a regular basis, and I am just about to set up a PC so she can access them.  Not even IE for Mac will work.

I am eager to see if the new build of Safari and 10.3.3 will help with some of these issues.


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## cybergoober (Mar 11, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> I've found that the majority of "networking" problems that people complain about have revolved around SMB share browsing, connection, etc.
> 
> See my link to the Apple article for example of the one that bugs me the most.
> Some others:
> - When making a connection from a windows machine to OS X 10.3.2 to print, for some reason OS X attempts to make a CIFS connection BACK to the Windows machine.  If it is unable to for some reason (like I have firewall software running on my machine, which is required if I'm VPNed into work - I *can't* shut it off), OS X simply doesn't respond to the printing request.  Eventually (45 seconds later) Windows times out and tries again.  User simply sees a hung printer dialog box.  This doesn't happen when connecting to other Windows machines.


Never had to try this, so I can't speak on that one.


> - The browser is spotty in finding machines in Workgroup, NT4 domain, and AD domain environments.  For some people this is worse than others.  I have about a 50% success rate in "finding" machines in my workgroup at home.


I've noticed that the browser takes a while to finally list all of the available machines in a selected domain, but it does seem to list them all here. Again, this isn't an issue for me since I usually know the name of the machine I need to connect to. And the name I see in the browser is the actual DNS Hostname of the machine.


> - The browser used when selecting printers will not display more than a few hundred machines.  In my case that means I can't select my print server at work since OS X only displays up through systems starting with the letter D, and my print server starts with the letter S


Is this when selecting Windows Printing? Rendezvous? AppleTalk? Haven't tried that as all the printers I print to are set up via IP or DNS Hostname.


> - Performance while copying (if OS X is a client) is extremely slow, at least for me.  For some reason OS X throws in 50ms pauses 10-15 times a second, meaning 50-75% of time is simply spent "idle" for no good reason.  This happens on two machines of mine, probably the third too.


I can honestly say I have *never* seen this. Is this copying via AFP, FTP, NFS, SMB/CIFS? Ethernet? Wireless?


> - I constantly get "the share you're connected to is unavailable.  Do you want to disconnect?" (or whatever it is) dialog.  I've looked at the network traffic while this is happening, there's NO reason for OS X to think the share's unavailable.


Again, never seen this one.

I take it none of these issues were present in Jaguar? Sounds like some work is definitely needed in the "Networking" area. I guess how many have these issues *and supply Apple with feedback* will determine whether or not and/or how soon they are addressed.

I'm glad I don't have any of those issues sounds like a major PITA.


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## Ripcord (Mar 11, 2004)

cybergoober said:
			
		

> Never had to try this, so I can't speak on that one.
> Again, never seen this one.



I'm not going to spend any more time (or this thread) on the issues, but let's just say there are many, and deep, issues with SMB networking in 10.3.



			
				cybergoober said:
			
		

> I take it none of these issues were present in Jaguar?



Not that I'm aware of, but only the browsing issues, latest incarnation of the password issue, and a couple others are *confirmed* to be new in Panther (though it doesn't matter so much to me when they were introduced as when they will be fixed)



			
				cybergoober said:
			
		

> Sounds like some work is definitely needed in the "Networking" area. I guess how many have these issues *and supply Apple with feedback* will determine whether or not and/or how soon they are addressed.



A large number of people have been complaining _quite loudly_ in the networking and printing support forums since Panther was released.  Since Apple does not post or provide feedback in these forums, I can only guess whether they've acknowledged the problems and are working on them.  Also since the discussion forums are usually extremely slow (and often times have search capabilities disabled because they can't keep up with the load) I imagine that has discouraged people from using them to report/look for information about problems.



			
				cybergoober said:
			
		

> I'm glad I don't have any of those issues sounds like a major PITA.



Yes, but then again it could be worse - I could be using Windows.  =)

(It *is* difficult for me particularly at work since I'm mostly operating "rogue".  To do email, I have to run the Classic Outlook 2001 app; I can't join the domain (though I don't really want to, and not complaining about issues stemming from that), many of our websites are IE-Win-only, etc)


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## Imagine (Mar 12, 2004)

They've been talking about a release...
Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks


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## diablojota (Mar 12, 2004)

Well, they are clearing up the last of the bugs so that this release will create as few problems as possible.
It's a QA thing.  Apple tries very hard to make sure that their software is thoroughly tested.
Probably next week it will become available.


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## cybergoober (Mar 12, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> A large number of people have been complaining _quite loudly_ in the networking and printing support forums since Panther was released.  Since Apple does not post or provide feedback in these forums, I can only guess whether they've acknowledged the problems and are working on them.  Also since the discussion forums are usually extremely slow (and often times have search capabilities disabled because they can't keep up with the load) I imagine that has discouraged people from using them to report/look for information about problems.



That's not what I meant by providing feedback. This is what I meant by providing feedback.


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## fryke (Mar 12, 2004)

Please use the following thread - http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42068 - for Mac OS X 10.3.3 information/questions.


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## cybergoober (Mar 12, 2004)

Okay.


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## monktus (Mar 12, 2004)

I agree with Ripcord on quite a few points. I've used Panther on two networks with mixed platforms and I've even found connecting to other OSX systems shaky, let alone Windows  (and it's not just my machine, or one Windows machine). Sorry if I'm repeating too much but this is a very big issue and if Apple take notice of their feedback at all (which they seem to), I hope it will be fixed, given the collective noises about it.


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## Ripcord (Mar 12, 2004)

Imagine said:
			
		

> They've been talking about a release...
> Anyone know anything about this?
> 
> Thanks



I'm secretly hoping that the fact it's taking so long means that the update will be that much more drastic.

Things like 20-30% OpenGL performance improvements, new Safari, other updates that have been reported sound promising, so I'm hopeful.   The proof's in the pudding, as they say - don't let us down, Apple!

Even if only SOME of my problems are addressed I'll feel pretty satisfied.  If *none* of them are, I'll feel really gypped (what, me, irate?  =)


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## wtmcgee (Mar 13, 2004)

to me, the longer it takes the better. at least we know they're not hastily letting something go without really testing it for bugs.


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## DJ Dylan (Mar 13, 2004)

As far as I'm concerned. I'll happily let Apple take their time with this upgrade. More time spent equals better update usually.


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## Ripcord (Mar 13, 2004)

...Which is better, releasing 6 updates with increasingly fewer bugs and more new features, or one update that has the sum of all 6 updates?

I vote for the faster, more frequent, personally, as long as the speed doesn't cause very many new bugs.  Open Source Software is usually very good that way (update often as a "rule" of release schedules, instead of say once per year, if that, like MS, and still tend to be very reliable updates)


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## wtmcgee (Mar 13, 2004)

but considering people don't upgrade all the time they're supposed to, having one nice update is better than releasing 10 different updates.  also, from a tech support perspective, it's easier to say "are you using mac OS 10.3.3" rather than "okay, did you install 10.3.3, and the march 10 security update, and the java update, and the safari 1.2.1 update?"


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## cybergoober (Mar 13, 2004)

Not to mention the size of the download(s)


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## fryke (Mar 14, 2004)

7F43 is out since Friday night. Ripcord: Sadly, There hasn't been any performance increase in the past builds from 7F32 afaics. It's really about polishing the update.

And btw.: I'm for _both_ small bugfixes and bigger updates. And I think that's how Apple handles this. Security updates come out whenever they're finished, while the 'bigger' updates (version number involving updates) come out when they're tested on a far broader basis.


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## Satcomer (Mar 14, 2004)

Well, at this rate we won't see the 10.3.3 update for us regular users until at least Easter.  I guess I've turned into a pessimist.


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 14, 2004)

I think it will be this week.. Am I too optimistic?


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## fryke (Mar 14, 2004)

We'll see. Latest I've heard, 7F44 is out (internally at Apple only) and will be released. But I'm just calming myself down, too, and try not to expect it.


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## kanecorp (Mar 14, 2004)

i haven't reaad this thread but all i have to say is i hate panther


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## fryke (Mar 14, 2004)

well, that's not really much, then. but thanks for informing us. ;-)


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## Anim8r (Mar 14, 2004)

kanecorp said:
			
		

> i haven't reaad this thread but all i have to say is i hate panther


Well, that was constructive and helpful.

Any reasons why?


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## Ripcord (Mar 14, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> We'll see. Latest I've heard, 7F44 is out (internally at Apple only) and will be released. But I'm just calming myself down, too, and try not to expect it.



My fingers, toes...even my dog's toes are crossed.  My eyes were too but it was way too hard to navigate the site that way.


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## Zammy-Sam (Mar 15, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> My fingers, toes...even my dog's toes are crossed.  My eyes were too but it was way too hard to navigate the site that way.


lol! After few thousands of posts you will be able to do this


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