# Cars... Let's see who drives what



## twyg (Feb 1, 2002)

Just 'cause... 

Most people know I dig my VW, and there are a few of us who own way more than one VW... There are also a few Jeep owners. I owned a Mazda RX-7, the rotary engine was something else, but now the VW engineering has snagged me...

So what is in your driveway?


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## boi (Feb 1, 2002)

2k1 VW GTi 1.8T goAPR'd. no other mods. oh, it's a sleeper alright. ^_^


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## Klink (Feb 1, 2002)

77' Fiat Spider 1800.
4 cyl 1755cc 84 hp
First DOHC engine design by Pinnin Farina.
Who needs horsepower when all the driving fun is in the form.


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## rinse (Feb 1, 2002)

2001 Hyundai Accent GS - I live in city and park it on the street... no luxury vehicle for me!


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## edX (Feb 1, 2002)

i have an '87 chevy astro minivan - great for going camping, hauling big items, seeing over everybody else's puny little cars , going anywhere you are going to get dirty or wet. not good in high wind and rain storms which are pretty common here on the coast. with rear wheel drive it was also a bitch in the ice and snow in the midwest us where it started its life.

GF has a '99 subaru outback legacy with the standard awd. i love to drive this car. also good for camping. great in wind and rain and probably snow. only thing i would change is creating a little more leg space for the driver.


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## .dev.lqd (Feb 1, 2002)

Reason number seven for moving to Europe- less cars, less need of cars.

I don't own one- and I hate depending on one...


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## AdmiralAK (Feb 1, 2002)

You forgot several brands 

like  YUGO, FIAT, OPEL (for our european members)
and of course
BMW, MERCEDES, JAGUAR 



Admiral


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## rinse (Feb 1, 2002)

actually maybe a category listing like this would be beter:

US made car (GM, Ford, Chrysler)

US made Truck/SUV

Euorpean made car (BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Opel)

Asian made car (Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Acura)

Asian made Truck/SUV 


just a thought!


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## edX (Feb 1, 2002)

i had the same thought rinse


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## Jadey (Feb 1, 2002)

My jeep can monster truck squash all your rounded lil VWs.


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## Nummi (Feb 1, 2002)

"My jeep can monster truck squash all your rounded lil VWs."


 HEY... you sound like a wintel user telling me that he/she will smash one of my little rounded iMacs!  VW/Porsche=Apple /// I THINK SO !


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## Jadey (Feb 1, 2002)

muahahahaahaha!


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## adambyte (Feb 1, 2002)

It seems the Nissan family of cars has been left out of the poll!  

I suppose the closest thing to my Nissan Maxima '90 would be a Toyota Camry.... but I hate the name "Camry..." grrr....


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## symphonix (Feb 2, 2002)

My car is a 1980 Toyota Celica which is in very good shape, has a turbo, and goes like a cut cat - when it wants to. Well, at least it goes.
I also half-own (with my dad) a 1969 Daimler V8 which is in need of restoration and has sat in the garage for five years now! A truly beautiful car, though; the body of a Jaguar Mark 2 with different bumpers, grille and a lighter, more powerful engine.


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 2, 2002)

I drive a lexus, but its not mine. 

Its my parents. I can't help but love the positive way that I look at cars. I drive a nice one now, and when I set off into the world next year, its going to take me 8-20 years to get back to where I started. 

We'll I'd trade the car for a BMW 3 series anyday. I voted for toyota, since thats who makes/owns them.


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## tagliatelle (Feb 2, 2002)

Admiral you have forget Peugeot!


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## martinatkinson (Feb 2, 2002)

You forgot Saturn in your poll!  They are just under Lexus and other luxury cars when it comes to service and quality I was told by someone who does surveys and such and boy do I agree with him!

We got our car and a free car wash whenever we want for life!  We can even come in once every day!  Every time we come into the store they treat us like family, it is really nice.

Have a great day!

Albert


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## Klink (Feb 2, 2002)

We share a common spirit testuser.
I do all my work to (when I'm not feeling lazy). One of the more involved jobs I've done was replacing head gaskets. Hours of fun breaking knuckles. I'll have to say my favorite tool is the sledge hammer. Cracking frozen bolts on a 25 year old car is cathartic.


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## tagliatelle (Feb 2, 2002)

My Peugeot is a bike anyway.


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 2, 2002)

All that stuff about saturn is really true? I had just assumed that GM was trying to grab some more market share with false claims of hospitality, under a different companies name.

Thats cool.


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## rinse (Feb 2, 2002)

while testuser makes a good point (and one that i was well aware of when i made my post)...

i was more or less basing the geographical breakdown on headquarters / traditional thought regarding automakers. in todays global market it is difficult to pin a point of orgin down for virtually any product. (i.e electronics, furnishings, appliances, etc)


as a sidenote:
Ford also owns LandRover (who was once owned by BMW)

and Chrysler doesn't really *own* Mercedes... It is more a partnership of sorts as evidenced by the company's name "Daimler Chrysler"


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## alexachucarro (Feb 2, 2002)

What about the Renault Megane Scenic that I drive?

You could never tell that this is a US site. There are people OUTSIDE the US you know. Germans/Brits/Italians and the French probably make the best cars ever. Maybe the Japs are OK too? But come on guys, your cars are too heavy. The Ozzies like them though...


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## kilowatt (Feb 2, 2002)

I drive a 1998 Chrysler Concord. Its shampane in color, and it has a 5/8's wave 2meter antenna on the back. Normally there's something outragious on the top, but not lately.

My family also owns a 1998 Lincolin Continental (black - my friends call it my 'mob car').

As well as a 1990 Black Jeep Cherokey (which still has American Motors parts in it, its not completely chryslered)

And, to top it off....

A 1983 Delorean DMC-12. (Yes, the same car from back to the future - well not the exact same....) Ours does not have the standard Volvo 120hp engine though. We have a Chevy 4.6liter V6  It rocks, and does well over 90mph in third gear.... and it has 5  not that I'd know what it does in 5th or anything.. heh


Whew


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## twyg (Feb 2, 2002)

Oh for gripes sake!

I will tell you this only once. Do not stereotype me with the arrogant american stereotype if you please. 

Let me share with you a story about one of the most arrogant, ignorant people I know. She went to France on vacation. When she came back I asked her how it was. She replied that she had problems "communicating". When I asked her if it was due to her French being rusty she replied "No, nobody spoke English." 

WHAT!!!!!! FOR F***'s SAKE!!??

Needless to say I damn near back handed her. She chased after me asking me what the problem was and I finally told her... "When you visit someones home, do you tell them how to arrange their space, do you tell them what to cook, and how to cook, do you run around and 'own' everyone, should they do everything to appease you? When you're in France the people speak F-R-E-N-C-H you ignorant fool." She looked at me perplexed. "But... everyone told me that English is the international language." I simply walked away in disgust. It may be the international language, but that doesn't mean that everyone should "cow-tow" to you.

So, do me a little favor, don't lump me into that stereotype that is what most nationalities call "american." I'm damn proud of how far america has come, and what americans are, but the arrogance and ignorance is not something I embrace, nor approve of. 

I would hope that this is a clear message that while I'm american, and I didn't make an overwhelming attemt to include other car manufacturers it was not my intention to exclude people and countries. I do offer apology for that. 

Please keep in mind that why I'm reacting so strongly is because this is not about just cars, it's about how the world views americans on the whole. I wish we didn't have this stereotype, but we do. I also feel that most americans on this board are good people, but don't be that lady... Please let's work to turn this stereotype around. *Note: This also applies to world peace. We all know it won't happen tomorrow, but we still need to make an effort all the same... 

*slides the soap box off to the side*


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## edX (Feb 2, 2002)

in twyg's defense, i must point out that he did an equally horrible job of including american cars. he really narrowed them down to a few particular models when there are probably hunderds more.  I will grant you i am american as well, but i think twyg just threw a poll together off the top of his head, made it fit as best he could with only ten spots and managed to start this cool thread where everybody is talking about cars and learning a little more about each other rather than just what mac they use. or whether they like aol 

btw testuser - i also get my hands dirty with the car pretty often. a 1987 astro needs more than oil changes on a regular basis. i do less now than i used to because i can afford to a little bit better. but i have changed more starters than i care to count over the course of all my vehicles.
but that is one great thing about computers -" i like to work with my hands but i don't have to get my fingernails dirty".  he he - anybody remember that commercial?


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 2, 2002)

dead on twyg.


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## alexachucarro (Feb 3, 2002)

As a European, and as someone who works at the 2nd busiest international airport in the world, it's difficult to stereotype. But we must ask ourselves where do these stereotypes come from? People don't just sit there and wonder what to make up.

I recently took my Kiwi girlfriend to Paris for a week. She was shocked at the rudeness of some French people. Therefore, she will remember the Frence for being rude to foreigners. It may be a stereotype, but as a whole they are!!! But again at the same time it's very embaressing being part of the football hooligan country that is England. We go to a country, drink too much, start fights and demand everyone speaks English. Look what we did with the old colonised countries:

USA - Stole it from Native Americans
Australia - Sent our convicts there, then stole it from Aboriginals
New Zealand - Stole it from the Mauri
Canade - Stole it from Inuits (with a little help from the French)
Wales - We'll have that
Scotland - We'll have that
Ireland - tried to have ALL of it
South Africa - Nice sunshine: have it

And it's most embaressing when looking at our past, and truley the only reason why we're not like the Americans is because we're a tiny little island. If we had that much land, WE would be the country that everyone hates.

And working at an Airport I observe a very multicultural world. And I do feel sorry for some of you Yanks, as a LOT of countries don't exactly love you. The biggest mistake I ever made was calling a Canadian an American, wow. 

I guess many of the reasons is because you're the fattest kid in the playground with all of the toys and many feel like you're forcing others to play how you want them to play. Also seeing as you're such a young country many see you as unwise and standing on the shoulders of giants. Giants being the British Empire (unarguably the largest empire in human history), the Romans the people who started changing the planet.

But what I am trying to say is maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem. Take a second out and FAIRLY try to think who REALLY won the space race?

First artificial satellite - Russians
First Animal in space - Russians
First Human in space - Russians
First Space Station - Russians
First moon landing - Americans

So you can see that drawing up the most pivotal moments of the 20th century, it seems that the Russians were on top. Yet ask even an English man: "who won the space race" 90% will answer "the Americans". How is that possible? Maybe that's what it's all about? Who knows. I'd blame your TV situation personally.

I read that over 60% of High School grads could not point out the USA on an unmarked globe.... that's worrying, especially when you have all the missles......


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## Jadey (Feb 3, 2002)

I still drive a jeep.


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## chemistry_geek (Feb 3, 2002)

I drive a 1992 Saturn SL2, purchased in August of 1991.  Saturn has its model change-over in August of every year - rather early, I know.  It was ordered brand-new from the dealer since none existed with the color I wanted with AC, anti-lock brakes, and the top-of-the-line stereo (previous post somewhere on this forum explains my audiophile toys).  This car just turned 182,000 miles today arriving back from a short across-the-state trip.  Hands down, the best car I've ever owned since at that time it had one of General Motors' best designed engines ever (in tests, it DID NOT blow up when revved to 15,000 rpm for 13 minutes - from an engineering journal).  The engine is basically a smaller version of the Quad-4: dual overhead cams, 4 valves/cylinder, multiport fuel injection, TUNED HEADER (came stock on the car).

Slowest I driven the car: 0 mph - sleeping at a rest stop.

Fastest I've driven the car: 130 mph - Toledo, OH to Farmington Hills, Michigan in 40 minutes for Thanksgiving Day.  Luckily, NO TICKET!

Normal cruising speed on the turnpike/toll highway: 85mph to 100mph.  My foot weighs about 30 lbs.

In case you're wondering, I spent my teenage years racing my uncle's Porsche 911, so don't any of you get ideas that anyone can drive fast safely - you can't without good judgement, knowlege of your cars abilities, good weather, and extras on your car that improve it's performance.


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## CloudNine (Feb 4, 2002)

1980 Honda Express moped.

This wildcat has a fearsome two-stroke engine that can top 20MPH going downhill.  That's right my friends, a chainsaw with wheels, FROM HELLLLL.

Zero to sixty you ask?  Hah hahhh baby, in yourrr dreeeams!

And if it even has horsepower, you can be sure that it's one really old, sick horse.  Expect to get anything from a wave to a salute to a middle finger as you cruise the backroads with its powder blue frame and "Evil Inside" sticker plastered on its air filter cap.

Oh yes, with all the girls that'll point and laugh when they see you riding this righteous firebrand, well let's just say they don't call it a two-stroke for it's unforgiving sex appeal...


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## edX (Feb 4, 2002)

wow Cloudnine, that sounds like it is just barely better than the original chain driven cars that honda made


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## RacerX (Feb 4, 2002)

> _ posted by alexachucarro_
> *But what I am trying to say is maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem. Take a second out and FAIRLY try to think who REALLY won the space race?
> *



Yeah, they must have won, but lets look at some of their other feats, shall we.

First Death in Space: Soviet 
Second Death in Space: Soviet
Third Death in Space: Soviet
etc.

(NOTE: There was no more a Russia at the time than there was a Georgia, there was only the Soviet Union. People in their program came from all over the CCCP)

And we did win in the only way that the space race mattered, which was in the context of the Cold War. There was no other reason for it, the space race was just an extension of the arms race.



> *I read that over 60% of High School grads could not point out the USA on an unmarked globe.... that's worrying, especially when you have all the missles......
> *



That sounds more like propaganda that fact, but maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem.

But what do I know, I must be one of those dumb Americans.


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## alexachucarro (Feb 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> *How can you dismiss American cars and then say, "Germans/Brits/Italians and the French probably make the best cars ever".  How could you rationally include British cars with the rest?  Please. *



Well let me start. 

Your coveted NASCAR Racing - they're ALL British companies.

Champ Car Racing - ALL British

Formula 1, undoubtedly the best performance cars in the world. Almost 50% are British. There's Arrows, Jordan, McClaren, Benetton, BAR (Half American), Jaguar, Williams. Then the rest are French, Japanese, German and a Swiss Team. Apart from BAR, who really needed US Dollars, there are no US teams in the F1 circle.

World Rally Championship - (In my opinion a better skilled driver in more difficult conditions):

Citroen - French
Ford - British Division. US owned company.
Hyundai - Korean
Mitsubishi - Japanese
Pergeot - French
Skoda - Czech
Subaru - Japanese

And the worlds best production car, the McClaren F1. Some would say a couple of Ferraris, even still. NO American cars.

US cars look comfortable and big, and guzzle petrol at a ludicrous rate and are very, very heavy. Many match your cars to your personas. No country in the world has cars as big as Americans. The Australians are dangerously close though!

So we can see that a lot of the worlds money comes from the US, but 90% of the expertise is European or Japanese. Over 50% of parts in the US Air Force fighters are British or French. Especially the engines. Over 90% of the engines in the airline industry are British. Need I go on. World land speed record, British. And that was privately funded!!! If the EU ever becomes a single country, as the US is. Then it would become a very large influence on the planet, as is the US now. Even as we speak Oil companies are pricing barrels in euros instead of US dollars.

So I do respect your thirst for scientific research and medical advances, but I think if we all had to put one country at the top of technology REGARDLESS OF MONEY, it has to be the Japs. We get close, but we're too lazy. The US would also come close, but there's a region of your country called The South (who still fly Confederate flags??!!! What's that about) that kinda pulls your nation down.

No offence to any Southerners here. He he he, I can't for the comeback of this thread!!!

Lets get personal.

RacerX: that fact was from CBS News (which I think is Canadian or American) and USA Today, which I read now and again at Gatwick Airport. We get US channels in the UK. About 30. How many foreign channels are there in the USA?


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## rinse (Feb 4, 2002)

this topic has become to politcial!

gah!


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 4, 2002)

OK, so i'm an american, and i think that this whole sterotyping is uncalled for, but inevitable. If your country is going to be a leader, who's to say that people can't disagree with them? Even if sometimes the disagreement is just because some people feel that it is chic.

Agreements with Alex:

1. American cars SUCK. What happened to performance, durability, efficiency, design, style, ect.?

Its just not there. There is no realistic reason to like an american brand. Even because of all that "made in the USA" crap, its just not true, this is a world economy.

I'd rather have a BMW, Audi, MB or VW any day. And so does everyone else I know.

But still, big hulking cars are considered a luxury. 

My father has a fleet car from his business. Problably as some measure of status, they decided to give him a Oldsmobile. What crap!He hates driving it, but does anyway because he doesn't have to pay for the gas, and it keeps the miles off our japanese cars.

2. The South

Wow, i know i just went off on sterotypes up a little ways, but i'm going to go ahead an talk about a specific "group" in the south, please do not be offeneded. Like Alex said, whats up with the confederate flag? Yeah right,"Its part of my heritage." Well mister, I hope you're proud of your heritage, shedding blood to keep the insistution of slavery alive. I hope your proud that when democracy didn't work out in your interests, you threw a temper tantrum and seceeded. It just doesn't make sense, please board the next train to modern days. This is one country, this is no northen or western conspiracy. Get rid of your resentment. People still take the civil war personally, like it just happened. Like if i was to say "The South lost the war", i would be dissing your mother. No one thinks that the same people who fought for the south, are the same people during there today, so don't get defensive and make people think that the same opinions are still there. I recently had the chance to talk about the civil war with a group of students from georgia. When i mentioned sherman, the general who used total war strategies to totally decapactitate the south, all i heard was outrage that he had done such a thing, as though it had never been done before, and hadn't been done since. Don't take it personally, OK? Its just history, it doesn't make me a good person, or you a bad person, me a judge, and you an outlaw.

So how about those cars?


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## alexachucarro (Feb 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> *I'm not going to make a long argument.  This thread risks becoming a US vs England imbroglio.*



Imbroglio is a great word to start with. And I'm trying top make a more of a:

"know your place" vibe. More US vs The Planet. 



> _In fact the British Range Rover is heavier and sucks more gas than my car![/B]_


_

OK, so you graciously choose examples of cars that suited you. But, your President refused to go to international environment convention. And he's started to tap Alaska for it's oil.

The US has appalling standards when it comes to pollution. Here in the EU we have cars that are banned for being 2dB too loud!!! Which is stupid. But then the EU is a very touchy subject with Brits and could spawn an entire forum.




Second you shoot yourself in the foot with your race car argument for British superiority.[/B]

Click to expand...



That's what I was getting at. It's a British company. 100% autonomy from the US. But all American money. That's my WHOLE point.




Comparing racing otherwise is like comparing apples and oranges.[/B]

Click to expand...



But the point I was trying to make was that all your favourite racing is foreign technology.




I'm not going to dispute the highly dubious claims about jet engines[/B]

Click to expand...



My cousin used to be in the Navy and had a boyfriend who was a Royal Marine Engineer. ie fixes Harrier Jump Jets. (which has got to be the coollest jet ever!!! it's that or the F-14). But if you need more info, check out this US site:

http://www.ultimateaviationlinks.com/airparman.html

I'm sorry if I come accross as British Superiority as that's what the rest of the world is pissed off at the Yanks for. All I'm saying is, look at the world with different eyes.

We made a film called The Madness of King George III. (III - as in The Third). But we had to drop the "III" bit as most Americans then wondered where the two prequals had gone......

Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - American kids didn't know what a Philosopher is, so they renamed it 
Harry Potter and the Scorcerer's Stone.

Things like that piss off non-Americans the most. A philosophers and a scorcerer are completely different things. Stuff like that. 


Ahhhh never mind. I shant post any more replies to this thread as we must agree to disagree. Just get rid of Bush!!!_


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## edX (Feb 4, 2002)

not getting involved in the car war thing and am not to going to dignify alex's ignorance of the southern u.s. But Matrix Agent, get your scrawny butt up and listen a minute:

1st: the civil war was not fought over the issue of slavery. slavery was made an issue after the war had started. at the beginning of the civil war, both sides were slavers. the south went to war over econmic issues that threatened their prosperity and favored northern industrialism. It wasn't much different than the american revolution except that the revolt lost. yes, it was good that slavery was abolished as a result, but it was a byproduct of the war - not the issue behind it.
2nd - sherman was a loon and a butcher. yes there have been others like him but that doesn't make it ok to destroy a people and their way of life just because you can. in the modern era he would have been tried for war crimes with any luck at all. of course he might have 'gotten off' by reason of insanity. He is not someone any Ohioian should be proud of as having been born in Lancaster. The north would have won anyway.

and i guess now that i am going i will say a little about the south in general - there are ignorant people doing stupid things anywhere you go in the world. the south does not have a monoploy on this.


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 4, 2002)

Ed, good points. I would have to disagree on why the civil war was fought though. The civil war was fought over slavery, I don't hold any illusions that emancipation was the utimate goal of the war, I believe that the emancipation was nothing more than a political manuever by the republicans to control parts of the south by gaining black votes. I do not think that economic pressures were the cause of the civil war, the tariff had always been up in arms, jackson even had threatened to send down troops at one time, what happened was that the south (as well as the north) took a hardened stance on the issues, and refused to budge on anything. As a result, you see a bunch of compromise bills like the compromise of 1850 and the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Each new state becomes the stage for each side to let the other know it hasn't budged. When the Dred Scott decision in 1857 by chief justice roger taney, appointed by jackson, ruled that it was illegal for congress to regulate slavery, the north got desperate and became more radical, electing lincoln for his republican views of "containing" slavery.

The civil war was mainly caused by the tensions developed by the two sections over slavery. I just don't see economics coming into play here. Sure, the south may have thought that if kansas wasn't a slave state it would spell the end of slavery because it would set a precendent, but the republican party wasn't even out to abolish, save a few people. Emancipation was a politcal afterthought. Thats where we agree ed. 

I'm going to throw my second response and my final thought into one big thing. His stratigies may have been unjustifiable, but thats not my point, my point is that the people I met seemed to take it so personally, it seemed altoghether too real to them, like it had happened yesterday. What surprised me was the intensity of ther reaction. I just wish people would get over the civil war, there is no need to go back and relive it, and dig up those old issues, the war has long since been over, sherman has been dead for a time now, the confederacy has been broken up for many years. Lets stop taking things personally, lets put away the flags. Thats my protest against 
_some_ people in the south.

There are obvioulsy not going to be abnormally high concentrations of ignorant people in one area. It just seems like one group of people have specifically decided to latch onto decades old topics, and this is one topic that bothers me.


Wow Ed, this sure is fun! This fits right in with my ENTP features. Ed, I have to say that because of your seniority and your psycological studies you make a great debate opponent, plenty of respect is being sent in your direction. Right or wrong, this is fun.


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## RacerX (Feb 4, 2002)

> _posted by testuser_
> *(from my memory)
> * German auto makers Porsche, and BMW make cars that give off levels of nitrogen oxides and sulfur oxides that are impermissible in the US (contributing to ozone depletion and acid rain)
> * I was shocked to see leaded gasoline being sold in Denmark in the mid-'90s
> * US cars have more strict safety requirements (5 mph bumpers and the like). This is why a number of European automakers have to retrofit cars specifically for the US market (Volvo notably excepted). *



Not than I'm bias in anyway, but... having owned four Porsches I can tell you that (1) they are forced to meet the same emissions standards as any other car before they can be sold in the US (and there are more Porsches sold in by Porsche North America than are sold in all of Europe) and (2) the engines are designed to run better at higher speeds (most Porsches get there best mileage at better than 125 kph). My 1974 911 had integrated 5 mph bumpers (that were included on all 911s through the end of the 80's), and both of my VW-Porsche 914s exceeded US safety standards of the time (the front and rear luggage compartments were designed to collapse in an accident, there was a fire wall between the front luggage compartment and the fuel tank, and the fuel tank and the passenger compartment, and another between the passenger compartment and the engine bay). and my 1970 911 Targa and both 914s had built-in roll bars that exceeded the SCCA racing standards (and I remember seeing Alan Johnson racing a stock 914-6 with only the front window and frame removed, back window removed, and the addition of a thicker antiroll bar, it was very impressive). 



> _ posted by alexachucarro_
> *Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - American kids didn't know what a Philosopher is, so they renamed it
> Harry Potter and the Scorcerer's Stone. *



I heard it was done for marketing reasons, and who doesn't know what a Philosopher is? I've been in public schools all my life, and and I don't see where you get this (even if you are just repeating it). My public university has had more Nobel and Fields Medal winners than England (or Russia, or most nations in the developed world). I find it amazing that you feel that your education system is so advanced when it has so little to show for it.



> _ posted by alexachucarro_
> *RacerX: that fact was from CBS News (which I think is Canadian or American) and USA Today, which I read now and again at Gatwick Airport. We get US channels in the UK. About 30. How many foreign channels are there in the USA?*



I don't get 30 channels (I don't watch that much TV), we get 6, 2 of which are PBS, one of those carries BBC programing. As you seem to remember that it was in reported in USA Today, a date and page number reference would be nice.


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## edX (Feb 5, 2002)

You know Phil, i just realized a similarity between our little discussion and the american/british one. Note that it always seems to be the brits who voice their dissatisfaction with yanks the most. they lost their position of power and suffered great economic loss when the colonists won the revolution. their "empire" has never recovered the way they envisioned it. They do good, but by all rights they still see the richness of america as something they 'should' have had. 
same deal with southerners. The southern economy was once the strongest in the colonies. It had the promise to be the seat of power and prosperity for the nation. But as northern industrialism began to take shape, the south started losing their place. Tax laws were enacted that favored northern businesses and drained profits from the south to help finance the support of further industrialization. this was the 'economics' of which the civil war was fought. And the south, like england, has never fully recovered from this in economic terms. they have taken great strides in the last couple of decades but there is still a long way to go. so in fact, the people living there today are still dealing with the results of the civil war. to trivialize that is as wrong as them wanting to continue the war (which most don't - the confederate flag is more about regional unity and pride than anything else these days). So Sherman is still a big symbol of the reasons behind the uphill economic battle the south faces. You'd take it personal too.
I think you may be the first Ohioan i have talked with who was willing to admit that the issue of freedom for slaves came after the war started. Everyone i ever met there _proudly_ clings to this notion that the north went to war for some great humanitarian reason. I swear they teach it this way in Ohio high schools. that will always be  bunch of bs. the funny thing is that northerners (especially in Ohio)  brag about loving blacks as a group but seem to dislike most of them as individuals whereas southerners yak about hating blacks but usually have great individual relationships with them. The real problem is that in the north their is a large economic difference between blacks and whites. in the south, everybody is poor.  (i admit i am generalizing here and do not expect to be held accountable for real life exceptions to this)


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## edX (Feb 5, 2002)

so how much would this thread change if we talked about all the cars we owned? i want to drive racerx's porches!! 

I have driven nearly every car i have owned to it's demise so my list is pretty short. 
1966 Chevy Impala - 4 dr
1970 Ford Pinto
1975 Dodge Van - now that was the PARTY VAN!!! bed in the back....
19?? VW Beatle (2) - i loved those cars
197? Cadillac - something about big back seats that is nice
and the current astro mentioned earlier

but if i had my choice today - i would drive a toyota or mitsubishi (already get to drive the subaru)


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 5, 2002)

Ok Ed, again, all good points. Lets agree to disagree on our economics vs. slavery issue, we really can't change each other's opinion on that.

I do appreciate what you've said about the lasting effects of the civil war, I never really thougt of the flag as anything else other than a declaration of war upon the United States. Though I still don't like having one region having a flag, when there is no "southwest" or "Midwest" flag.

So where does Ohio come into this? In my school, they particularly went out of there way to almost villainize lincoln to make sure that we knew, he wasn't freeing slaves for his morals. It wasn't even part of his platform.

Off to scholl for me!


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## roger (Feb 5, 2002)

RacerX - I agree with a lot of what you are saying - and I am from the UK. I have spent quite a lot of time in the US over the last few years.

Firstly - emissions: A car cannot be sold in the US unless it passes the emissions tests. However it does not necessarily follow that because a car failed the tests it is worse for the environment. For example, a small car with a small engine can fail the tests because its % emissions were too high. It still pumps less noxious gases than a large V8 RV that passes the % test. Large cars are popular in the US, and because they burn more fuel then they are pumping more Nitrogen/Carbon based oxides into the atmosphere, as well as other goodies. The fact of the matter is that the US produces the most carbon dioxide compared to any country, no matter how you look at it, and Bush vetoed any international agreement to reduce the levels for economic reasons. I am not saying that other Governments are doing any better, it is just that Bush didn't handle the international press so well.

Leaded Fuel note - unleaded fueld is actually less efficient because leaded fuel comes with a great lubricant (the lead). We (our Governments) have decided that the risk of lead poisoning is less than the increased oxides that the cars are pumping out. A good choice I am sure, but I am just indicating that things are not quite a clear cut as you may think.

Education - I came through the state system in the UK and went to a top University afterwards. I would not like to do that now. In both countries there are good and bad schools. RacerX is correct in looking at empirical evidence: The top universities (to use UK terminology) in the US are much better funded for research purposes and so produce more prize winners. The UK system is not more advanced.



> Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - American kids didn't know what a Philosopher is, so they renamed it
> Harry Potter and the Scorcerer's Stone.
> 
> Things like that piss off non-Americans the most. A philosophers and a scorcerer are completely different things. Stuff like that.



Who cares? I don't care. What annoys me about the US Government (not the people) is that it totes its armies around the world in the name of freedom when it is quite clearly in the US's own interests for power. I would not expect them to do anything else however - of course the US Government should look after its own citizens. I suppose that I am more frustrated that my own government seems to care more for immigrants and people in other countries than its own.

I have a lot of US friends. They are intelligent world-wise people. We all know what a US Stereotype is, but we all know what a British one is as well. That does not mean that we should paint everyone with the same brush based upon their countries. I think that people forget that they are two different countries, with different customs, etc. Yes, the language is similar, but they are still different countries.

End of rant.

Roger.


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## alexachucarro (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> You probably also think the British had saved the day in World War II (let me give you a clue: it started with the D-day invasion).
> 
> At least you and I agree about Bush. [/B]



OK fair enough about the cars. But the way the US is depicted in European media is that it's amongst the worst in the world for emissions. Except for counties like China or Iraq, where they don't care.

As for news paper date and number?... Good grief. I'm not that sad. About 16 months ago?...

Oh and don't get me started on WWII. Hmmm, famously late for every war? How long did you wait until you joined us??? Two years of a five year war? Hmmm. And you only joined after Japan attacked. How long would it have been if they didn't attack.

And no, we certainly didn't do too well in WWII. Especially after we won and then hd to feed Germany as well as ourselves in the middle of a global recession. If it wasn't for Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Scandinavia and the other countries that made up the 14 for the Allies. Then we would've been destroyed. Thank God you came in when you did. But it would have been nicer if you came in earlier.


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## edX (Feb 6, 2002)

phil - sounds like you had a pretty good history teacher. let me clarrify what i mean by economics. the taxation was being set up at the time in such a way that it penalized slave owners in the south because of the vast numbers of slaves that it took to run a profitable plantation. This was the major reason for succession. the confederacy was originally bankrolled by those rich plantation owners who did not want to give up their wealth to other states. In the beginning it was not an issue of slavery, but rather how economic sanctions effected the ablility of slavers to profit. and those sanctions were not intended to put an end to slavery, but rather to raise more money for the federal govt. and the growth of the country. since the south was already losing economic ground to the industrial north, they weren't ready to be the ones to lose their wealth so others could have more. like you, i am not trying to argue the rights or wrongs of the issue, but the perceptions of right and wrong by the people of the time was critical to the issue. so in a sense you are right when you say that slavery was an issue, but it was an economic issue, not a moral issue. in that sense, we are both right.

the civil war was really based upon the same economic principles as the american revolution. a bunch of wealthy men decided they were tired of supporting someone else. nothing much more glorious about it than that. and unfortunately most wars are fought over little more than that with a lot of propaganda to enlist soldiers to the "cause".  even bin laden is just another rich guy taking advantage of a situation. i truly believe he thought he would get the support of most of the mideast. but being rich does not mean being smart and he will suffer the fate of the confederacy i am sure. i still feel deep sympathy for so many who got caught up in his holy bull shit.  but not for those who think that killing in the name of God is somehow right.


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## roger (Feb 6, 2002)

> And Roger, air pollution is air pollution, whether it is CO2 or lead. They both harm the environment. CO2 leads to global warming, and lead becomes an air pollutant harmful to animals. Lead also precludes the use of a catalytic converter, leading to higher levels of hydrocarbon, oxides, etc.. There are other ways to get the same amount of efficiency (reformulating the gasoline with other lubricants) that does not require lead. It has been done in this country



I agree and disagree - One type of air pollution is not the same as another. Lead is a lot worse in the short term but will eventually pass through the ecosystem. Yes, CO2 is one of the factors involved in global warming, but remember - we don't even know what global warming is a real effect yet. There have been papers saying that it is real, and papers saying that the extra CO2 will be taken up by plant life in the world. The media have just jumped on one side of the story. I am saying that both these are bad, which we agree on. I am saying that removing lead from petrol was a case of give and take. Yes, other petrol suppliments can get around the need for lead and improve the efficiency of the petrol, but these could in a great deal of cases be used in tandem with lead. There is no getting around the issue that cars pollute heavily, no matter what size of car or what petrol you are using. Yeah, some fuels are better than others, but the effect is marginal compared to the overall pollution. 

I am not trying to say that we should have leaded fuels - on the contrary. However I would not believe that everything is as black and white as the media would have us believe. The sad fact that the people who make the decisions in this world (the politicians) and the people who influence them (the media) are not experts.

R.


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## Matrix Agent (Feb 6, 2002)

Cool Ed. Cool. 

I do like me history teacher very much. She won the awward for teacher of the year from my district last year. Pretty funny lady. We'll just have to see how I do on the AP though...


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## alexachucarro (Feb 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> I need to have an emissions inspection on my car every 2 years.  The US also has slower speed limits which improve fuel efficiency (maximum mpg for highway driving is ~50 mph).  Unfortunately, SUVs are not subject to the same stringent regulations



Have to say I really do admire the fact that your speedlimit is 50/55 as that IS a cars most economical speed.

2 questions:

1. What's an SUV?

2. How can a majority voted candidate not win presidency?

Is it down to the states' majority rather than people votes?

And we have to have our cars checked every year for emissions. Except if the car is less than 3 years old. It's part of an MOT (Motoring ???? ?????) thingamy. Not cheap either. Anyway. Enough bitching.

Hows the weather. What place is the City of Angels?


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## RacerX (Feb 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by testuser _
> *It's representative; each state sends a number of electorates (the actual number determined by the population of the state) to the electoral college.*



I always thought that the number for each state was equal the total number of Senators and Representatives allocated to that state (so that small states that would only have 1 vote based on the number of Representatives gets 3 votes because every state has 2 Senators).


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## Jadey (Feb 19, 2002)

I almost hate to bring this political thread to active status again, but look at this!

http://www.mini.ca

The Mini is coming to Canada!


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## dlookus (Feb 19, 2002)

> The Mini is coming to Canada!



I saw a silver one the other day in NJ (nice.) I went and got information on them. very reasonable for a BMW. $16,850 in the U.S., and 26/43 city/highway miles per gallon (don't know what that is in Kilometers. Sorry.) I want one desperately.


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## ulrik (Feb 19, 2002)

I drive a five year old BMW 328 compact (I'd prefer the standard version but my hockey bag doesn't fit into it)


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## roger (Feb 20, 2002)

1957 Karmann Ghia Coupe - quite fun, but no heating to speak of.


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## apb3 (Feb 20, 2002)

am i the only saab driver?


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## CloudNine (Feb 20, 2002)

26mi == 42km
43mi == 69km

42/69 kilometers to the US gallon city/highway respectively.

1 US gallon ==  3.8  liters

42km / 3.8 == 11 km
69km / 3.8 == 18 km

11/18 kilometers to the liter city/highway respectively.


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## dlookus (Feb 24, 2002)

The new Minis are made in England but owned by BMW and built on the Z3 platform. It's a BMW.


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## ulrik (Feb 24, 2002)

Little correction: a modified Z3 front axis and the BMW 3series back axis and transitions...

the new mini definitely is a BMW.


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## Nummi_G4 (Feb 28, 2002)

Has anyone seen that new VW/Porsche SUV?  I do not know what to think about it... porsche design... but kinda ugly.


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## Nummi_G4 (Feb 28, 2002)

"Volkswagen, Audi, or Porsche (all the same fam) "


 what does "fam" mean>?


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## RacerX (Feb 28, 2002)

_Family_:

You can trace the history of all three back to each other in many areas. Lets look at Porsche VW connection. Dr. Porsche sold his design for the Beetle (both body and engine) to VW to get enough money to get members of his family out of a French prison (they were there for war crimes... making cars for Germany in WW II was a crime it seems). They started their own company using parts from VW for the engines and the bodies built by Karmann Coach Werks which VW was also using to make some of their cars (VW would later buy Karmann in the late 60's and that would  lead to the deal that made the 914-6 a VW-Porsche rather than a Porsche in Europe, but the 356s, also made at the Karmann factory but before VW owned it are a "true" Porsche). The 914 series was sold as a Porsche (both the 914-6 and the 914-4 with the VW 411 engine) here due to the fact that Audi and Porsche worked out of the same dealerships in North America, and Porsche North America thought that they would sell better as Porsche rather than as VW-Porsche.

The Porsche Audi connection can be seen in the fact that starting in the 60's most of the dealerships in North America that sold one type also sold the other. In the mid 70's Porsche started to play around with the idea of a water cooled engine for one of their cars, this would lead at first to the 924 which use both Audi engines and breaks, but would give way to both the 944 and 928 series which used Porsche designed systems.


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## Nummi_G4 (Mar 1, 2002)

Whoa man... that 914 was one ugly duckling.   I am glad my dad got rid of it.  but now he has another ugly car.  It is a beetle, with a porsche engine... and a different body.  The body is called "ManxSR".  If you have ever heard of it, you must be a car freak.  I think there are only 13 of them left in the world.


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## RacerX (Mar 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Nummi_G4 _
> *Whoa man... that 914 was one ugly duckling.*



Funny, I seem to recall people saying the same thing about Macs.

Fortunately the Porsche/Piech family didn't agree with you (that was one of there favorite body designs, and they still own about half of the 916s ever made, the only 914-8, and a number of the 914-6s that the factory raced). Strangely enough, the general public also didn't agree with you seeing as they bought 127,000 of them during it's production run, which only ended because of a disagreement between Porsche and VW (actually it started out with a disagreement, but that is a long story).

I loved my 914 (which I had for 11 years) more than any other Porsche I have owned or driven (okay, I do _really_ love the 356c, but other than that one no other).


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## dlookus (Mar 1, 2002)

The 914s tended to be rust buckets. Did they not?


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## RacerX (Mar 1, 2002)

Actually not any more than any other type of car of the same period. I never had any problems, but I was living in California. All Porsches used a baked on acrylic paint, and starting in 1977 they added a zinc-oxide primer which Porsche now guarantees for up to 12 years.

Any other misconceptions I can dispel?


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## MDLarson (Mar 4, 2002)

Well, I drive an '87 Toyota Camry now (will it ever die?), but I used to drive this:







For all the negativity about big honking vehicles (no pun intended!), I really liked the utility of the truck.  At first I used it for heavy duty projects at home, but when I used it only as a commuting vehicle, I had to sell it.  12 mpg sucks.

My dream car?  An even more impractical automobile:  DODGE VIPER!

But I'm really liking a certain Subaru Imprezio WRX.  Manual transmission, all wheel drive, looks cool.


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## kenny (Mar 5, 2002)

I've got the WRX (wagon). It's a complete blast to drive; I just ran my first autocross over the weekend. Get to drive like a nut without the danger of a ticket.. Hooray! Unfortunately, I didn't place for a trophy or anything, but there's always next time...


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## karavite (Mar 25, 2002)

Kenny my Brother! 

You are the connection between my two favorite forums: macosx and i-club. I have a blue WRX wagon, 5 speed. What color is yours? I have to say I love my G4 450, dual 19' monitors and OSX, but it would be the first out the door if I had to choose between it and my WRX. It is the most amazing, unique and fun to drive car for under $40k (even though it costs $25k). Although I try to always be responsible it is pretty much the fastest car around (unless there are exotics or muscle cars in the area) and it is such a blast to see the look on the faces of various "performance car"owners when my butt ugly little Subie leaves them in the dust (when some jerk tries to pass me in a right hand lane for example). What makes its acceleration so amazing is it wasn't designed to be a drag racer at all and it really lives up to its world rally heritage. I'm not a race car driver, but the car is so easy to drive sideways (drifting is the term). The first time this happened to me I almost got out and kissed the hood. It was amazing! I can only imagine what James Bond could do with one. This is NOT your typical tree hugging NPR listening Subaru!

The sound of the turbo (2.0 liter horizontally opposed boxer, 217 hp at 4500 rpm, 0 - 60 in 5.4 seconds), the absolutely incredible handling (slightly better than the beautiful and awesome Audi S4), the all wheel drive in the rain and snow... life doesn't get much better!

My wife has a Legacy wagon and it is much more tame, but it is an incredibly safe car. For anyone who is interested, all Subarus are incredibly safe cars (handle all kinds of weather) and do extremely well in all crash tests. In many ways Subaru is the Apple of the car world - truly innovative.


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## unlearnthetruth (Mar 25, 2002)

1994 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale.... haha..... it's a granny car in the purest sense of the term.... hellz yeah boyz


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## karavite (Mar 25, 2002)

Unlearn - I once had a 74 Delta 88. It was a great car!


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## vic (Mar 25, 2002)

don't drive, dont know how to drive, don't have license, ... the TTC rules!


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## ladavacm (Mar 26, 2002)

2001 ML 270 CDI, with manual 6-speed transmission.  Some AMG crap to get Xenon headlights.


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## nkuvu (Mar 26, 2002)

Vic: For those of us south of the border, what is the TTC?

And in Tucson a car is practically a necessity.  The average distance between stoplights is a mile.  Not kidding.

I prefer a bicycle, but when the temp is over 100 degrees (F) the idea of riding around is pretty unappealing.


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## earector (Mar 26, 2002)

Motorcycles....I love 'em all regardless of nationality, form, or function.


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## nkuvu (Mar 26, 2002)

The drivers in Tucson are _very scary_.  There's a guy who sits in the cubicle behind me at work who moved here from LA.  He says the drivers here are worse.  

I used to ride a Yamaha Seca II in Washington state, and I have considered getting another bike for Tucson.  But I have to admit that I am more than a little uncomfortable with the idea of riding with the kamikaze Tucsonans...


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## unlearnthetruth (Mar 26, 2002)

[Greg silently thanks new york drivers for being what they are.... ]

PA drivers on the other hand, leave much to be desired... *


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## vic (Mar 26, 2002)

the TTC is: "Toronto Transit Comission" - what i use...


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## pkollias (Mar 26, 2002)

What about those of us who own two wheels instead of four?

Honda VTR1000F --- Power to weight ratio of .26 if I did the math right. 

and the bus for winter...


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## Click (Mar 26, 2002)

I love italian cars. I drive an old Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT 1976.
Ok its hard to get spair parts but the car is wonderful to drive


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## Klink (Apr 7, 2002)

For all your Italian car parts needs (Alfa, Fiat or Lancia) look no further than...
http://www.international-auto.com/

They have done me well for 10+ years, my brethren.


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## Gimpy00Wang (May 3, 2003)

2k EBP Civici Si (same as SiR in Canada) with a few mods. No rice though.  Just some hp adders and a lil' audio tweaking.  Oh yeah, and some extensive work to ensure it sticks like glue in the twisties...

- G!mpy


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## Gimpy00Wang (May 3, 2003)

I have to agree with you. I see some interesting driving here in PA and in NJ. Some say NYC drivers are evil, but there I worry more about my car being swallowed by a giany pot hole.

- G!mpy



> _Originally posted by unlearnthetruth _
> *[Greg silently thanks new york drivers for being what they are.... ]
> 
> PA drivers on the other hand, leave much to be desired... * *


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## Giaguara (May 3, 2003)

No car yet, at least as *my* car. I hope I will get one that I like this year - Smart (of Mercedes-Benz). There aren't any in US, so I'll need to import one...  .. but _that_ car will look soooo kewl attached to an Appple sticker.


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## Milkman (May 3, 2003)

This one, except mine is a 3-door:





2000 Golf IV TDI
Gotta love that blue!

[Edit: can't get image link to work, too tired to figure it out - just copy/paste the URL if you really care  ]


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## TommyWillB (May 3, 2003)

> A cardboard box with stroller wheels. (See also soapbox racer)


OMG! Have you seen those Saturn commercials that show a suburban neighborhood full of cardboard box cars? Then comes a very boring looing Saturn and everyone ooh's and aaah's.

Come one. Are they seriously trying to sell Saturns by telling us that they are better looking than cardboard boxes? IMHO this might actually be a debateable point. ::ha:: 

In my mind no one has ever bought a Saturn because of its looks!


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## IXis9 (May 3, 2003)

Does a '96 Suzusuki Sidekick Sport on is qualify as a cardboard box? Its a great scoot...albeit not an ego trip by any means.


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## ebolag4 (May 3, 2003)

Volvo 1990 740 Turbo
Saturn 1992 SC2 (not for long though)


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## habilis (May 4, 2003)

what the hell kind of bourgeois thread is this? One intended to separate the working Honda Civic labor class from the chilling-in-the-sun Acura Legend class... How disgraceful.


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## Arden (May 4, 2003)

First, my car stuff.  My mom drives a 2001 Toyota Sienna, and my dad drives a manual 2003 Corolla he just bought, leaving me with his manual '86 Camry as soon as I get my license/insurance.

Next, to refute some previous points (not the heavy political stuff... it doesn't cover Iraq anyway).  I'd consider certain Saturns based on looks; they had some cool looking cars, at least once upon a time.

An SUV, for all you non-Americans who don't have to put up with them, is a sport utility vehicle.  It is basically a minivan built upon the chassis of a truck.  It looks like a truck with a camper shell, but inside it's like a van or wagon.

Finally, Bush is our president because while he did not receive the majority of the popular vote, he received the majority of the electoral vote.  The Electoral College is a group of electorates who really elect the president.  Each state has as many electorates as people in Congress, and all the electorates vote for the candidate the majority of their state voted for (a stupid method, but we've done it for years and it's not changing).  Enough people voted for Bush to give him the electoral vote, even if more people actually voted for Gore.

Also, am I missing something here?  There seem to be a number of deleted posts, as many people quote other people who seemingly have not posted the quoted comments.  Is this before we couldn't delete our posts or something?


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## Sogni (May 4, 2003)

My new ride / daily driver:
2002 Bajaj Legend, 4-stroke, 9 HP, 145cc, air cooled, 4 Speed.  - Never knew I would love to ride this much! 

Oh and a 70's Mustang, 5.0L V8 (gas gusler - but love the power and the sound the engine makes! ) - Weekend Car.


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