# Mac OS X 10.1 (5G64) GM- HOOAHHH!



## zerorex (Sep 21, 2001)

Well, I finally got 5G64 dl'ed and burned, and its great.  Speed is good, burning is easy, havent tested the dvd player yet because I dont have a dvd with me.  This is what OS X should have been on inital release.  

For those of you out there who are planning on replying to this post with a scathing comment on how "that is steeling from apple, and you are degrading the mac experiance", I have a bit of a statement.  Ok, you have me on one point.  I did download some of the other leaked builds.  My main reason for doing so was just to see what apple was up to, but yes, i did get a product that was not ment for distribution, but what can I say I was curious.  

Now on this paticualr build that point is not valid.  It is known that this IS the GM build, and IS going to be publicly released.  No on the point of steeling, I dont concider this to be so.  Apple has said that the 10.1 update will be "free", but they will charge 20 dollars for packageing.  It is not know yet wether there will be a method avalible to get the update without haveing to pay that fee.  Plus, I paid for the public beta AND the final, and never recieved my $20 discount for doing so.  Also, this is an update that is saposed to be free, and I feel that this method of gaining it is moraly correct.  


Anyway, im hungry and my co workers are ready for lunch...


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## treybomb (Sep 21, 2001)

Doesn't bother me one bit.  

As long as you paid for 10.0.  Just think of Hotline as an extension of Apple's software updates page.   

I'm still kinda curious though if the 5G64 you downloaded is EXACTLY THE SAME as the soon-to-be-shipping version of 10.1...  Please check out the thread here if you've got an answer.

- Trey


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## kilowatt (Sep 21, 2001)

What kernel is in your version of 10.1?

umane -r

will output the kernel.

10.0.4 has 1.3.7


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## ker[nal]+che (Sep 21, 2001)

I just got 5G64 installed on my B&W G3 400 today. Anyways, my question to you is, whether the new Apple DVD player IS evident in your Applications folder? The last time I saw it was when I ran 5G24 and the DVD player on that seed stank. Could open my dvd fine but can't play squat. I further installed 5G40(where it was noted by many on the Net as the version with the DVD player which could finally play), upgraded to 5G48, then to 5G49, then to 5G59 and finally updated to 5G64. All these versions(5G24 onwards) no longer installed the DVD player for me.

I was told that all that was needed to play DVDs on 10.1 was the presence of a hardware DVD player and yes, I have that. Anyways, this may not be a big issue to many who are reading but it is to me so I'll appreciate it if you could answer my question.


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## swizcore (Sep 21, 2001)

My DVD player which was installed with 5G64 is fully operational, better than 9.2.1 actually. I am also playing from a stock Apple DVD ROM drive.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 21, 2001)

most caraccho servers are offline lol and what is online is clogged... scroo G64 for now 


Admiral


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## zerorex (Sep 21, 2001)

The last i hurd, the dvd software bundled with 10.1 did NOT support hardware decoding, and if that is the way your dvd operated you may not have gotten the dvd player, but yes it is in my applications folder


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## ker[nal]+che (Sep 21, 2001)

well, thanks for your answer anyway, 'swizcore'...I think the problem lies with my hardware DVD player. It's a Samsung 12x dvd-rom ripped from my bro's PC. The thing can't boot up CDs on my Mac so I 'hotwire' the thing ONLY after I install OS X 10.1 with my native 32x Apple cd-rom.(sounds kind of dumb, right?...and which kinda defeats my previous question...heheh). Anyways, I think 10.1 only installs the Apple DVD player software when it detects the presence of a hardware DVD player.(which I lack of, while installing) 

Besides that, the speed increase for 10.1 is obviously evident(like we've heard this SO often enough..but more so on 5G64) even on my B&W G3.

P.S: do you by any chance listen to the band Swiz under the Jadetree label?(totally out of topic but hey...your nick gives it away)

Thanks again.


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## swizcore (Sep 21, 2001)

Swiz is one of my favorite bands ever, Thats where i derived my nick from!


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## ker[nal]+che (Sep 21, 2001)

heheh...I knew it...yeah, Swiz was super. Too bad they broke up in 1990. At least Nathan Larson got recognition for scoring the soundtrack of Oscar-winning film "Boys Don't Cry."

Well, better end it at that. I don't want to clog up this forum with off-topic replies. Good taking(typing) to ya and on a parting note....nice website.


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## mailseth (Sep 21, 2001)

> Anyway, im hungry and my co workers are ready for lunch...



Wow.. you are eating your co workers for lunch??

(I need to get more sleep at night  )


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## cybergoober (Sep 21, 2001)

PowerBook G4 Titanium/ 500MHz/ 384MB RAM/ 20GB HD/ OS 9.2.1 & 10.1 on one part./ virgin 9.2.1 on other.

DVD Player is in my Apps folder. Haven't had a chance to fire it up yet, though. I'll post back later. I think you have to have stock Apple DVD hardware.

*kilowatt*- 1.4 Darwin Kernel Version 1.4: Sun Sep  9 15:39:59 PDT 2001; root:xnu/xnu-201.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC  Power Macintosh powerpc

Speed is great! They've resolved the issue I was having trying to connect to a 10.1 machine from a 10.0.x machine. ATM no longer says preview version. More later, gotta go...


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## dodita (Sep 21, 2001)

Check out the finder view options, you can choose whether it's white, color or even picture!. Cool.

Speed is fabulous! DVD still got problem with regionless drive 

anyone has noticed any other visible differences ?


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## kilowatt (Sep 21, 2001)

Well, I think think the view options have been like that for a while, but still, its good to know  its still there. 

Thanks for the kernel version. I'm considering upgrading my kernel tonight... can I do that and will 10.0.4 still work? Oh well.... 

You loose all the risks you don't take (yeah, that is petsemistic...)



Have a good weekend everyone!


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## bookem (Sep 21, 2001)

Just finished installing it.  It's definitely quick - almost as fast as 9.1, if not faster.  Classic seems a tad nippier also.


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## Pascal (Sep 21, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ker[nal]+che _
> *The last time I saw it was when I ran 5G24 and the DVD player on that seed stank. Could open my dvd fine but can't play squat. I further installed 5G40(where it was noted by many on the Net as the version with the DVD player which could finally play), upgraded to 5G48, then to 5G49, then to 5G59 and finally updated to 5G64. All these versions(5G24 onwards) no longer installed the DVD player for me.*


I have read somewhere else that sometimes you need to re-install Mac OS X from scratch when this happens. Apparently, the installer sometimes gets screwed up as to what part has been updated, and what part hasn't. So one has to install Mac OS 10.1 on top of 10.0.4 to be sure everything works "as advertised".


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## knighthawk (Sep 21, 2001)

That brings up an interesting question...

Does the 10.1 updater update from 10.0.0?  That is the install CD that I bought, and I would rather update it straight from that instead of downloading the 10.0.4 patch again.  I have been planning on reformating with the new version comes out.  

Actually, I would prefer if the CD is a full installer.  Anyone know if this is the case?


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## swizcore (Sep 21, 2001)

Gooooooooood question man.
I would suggest you start that d/l from the Apple site and goto bed just so your not screwed when you get your hands on the release. That'd be a bummer...


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## frank212 (Sep 22, 2001)

HELP! i was finally able to get 5G64 from a server on hotline. The file is 626 something Mb. This is the right amount of Mb that I saw on every server. I can only mount the DMG file within 10.0.4 with DiskCopy. To burn the CD I have to go back to 9.2.1 and burn the imges to a disk. When I double click on it it says this disk is not a bootable disk.

I try to create a bootable disk in 9.2.1 with diskcopy 6.5b11 with the DMG file, but it says that diskcopy does not support this file type! I burned the cd with Toast 4.1.1. Do I need Toast 5.0?

Please help! It is frustrating after all that hassle with the downlad!

Thank you for your help!
Frank


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## ker[nal]+che (Sep 22, 2001)

Try burning it in toast. I burnt mine using Toast Titanium 5 in OS 9.2.1 yesterday(22/09/2001). I think Toast 4.1(or whatever version you were using) shouldn't be a problem. Just follow the instructions below(it's from the official Apple 5G64.pdf file so it's straight from the horse's mouth as you can get) Disk Copy 6.5b11 didn't work for me cause it couldn't detect my blank CD-R disk(strange huh?...go figure that one out). 


Converting Image for burning with Adaptec Toast

To use this electronic seed, you must have a PowerMac G3 or G4 machine that meets System Requirements for Mac OS X,
1.5GB of free hard disk space, and a CD-RW drive.

1.) Convert image with Disk Copy 6.5b11
Disk Copy 6.5b11 will allow you to convert an image file to a CD-R master. To burn discs using Adaptec Toast, please be
sure to have Toast extensions turned ON.
2.) From Image menu, select Convert Image (Command-K)
3.) Select the Mac OS X 10.1 5G64 Update.dmg file, or the Tools file
4.) Save the device image as a CD-R.
From the pull down menu at bottom of screen, select CD-R master format
Save file as Mac OS X 10.1 5G64 Update.cdr. Be sure to use a .cdr suffix to avoid writing over your original download
archive.
5.) When conversion is complete, you will have an Adaptec Toast image file that can be burned. Launch Toast and proceed
as usual. Be sure to allow disc to verify.


P.S: Should work for you unless you mounted the 5G64 upgrade seed in some other unorthodox manner whereby it would render the disk image(as well as your IMMENSE download time) KAPUT...


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## vic (Sep 22, 2001)

why doesn't the wget get and web sharing start comand not work, 

when you boot fom the 5g64 cd, you have the option of erasing evrything or installing ontop, just like in the original os x cd, so i'm guessing this a whole system! 

should i install it from scratch, or id doesn't matter whether i install it over my 10.04 os x?


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## vic (Sep 22, 2001)

there's an easier way to burn the cd...

in toast, go to the pull down menu and choose disk image or something like that, then drop the untouche, unmouted thingy u downloaded of crracho or hotline and drop it over toast, if you click on data, you should see the contents of the cd which confirms that it worked, now you are ready to burn.


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## Kristjan (Sep 22, 2001)

I know there's a way to install Mac OS X 10.0 without the CD, MacOSX.org had a guide on how to do it. MacOSX.org isn't up at the moment though...

I don't have a CDRW, but I have the dmg-file (Mac_OS_X_10.1_5G64_Update.dmg), is there any way to install it without CD? Perhaps I could copy the files to an empty partition or something. Anyone know anything about this?


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## rhale1 (Sep 22, 2001)

Here you go. I have used this on OLD dev build of OS X and it works fine. You will need to follow the direction to the letter, or you can image it onto an 'in-use' partition by using the 'Restore in Place' option and booting from a OS 9 CD.


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## Kristjan (Sep 22, 2001)

Where do I download Disk Copy 6.5b11?


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## Kristjan (Sep 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by rhale1 _
> *Here you go. I have used this on OLD dev build of OS X and it works fine. You will need to follow the direction to the letter, or you can image it onto an 'in-use' partition by using the 'Restore in Place' option and booting from a OS 9 CD.
> 
> *



Thanks!


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## rhale1 (Sep 22, 2001)

DiscCopy 6.5b11 is available to Apple Developers who can get 5G48 and higher. Or you can always try Carracho!


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## frank212 (Sep 22, 2001)

I was finaly able to mount the dmg image!  You need Toast 5.0   thank you all for your help!  I will now starting to enjoy my new system software  :O)
Ciao
Frank


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 22, 2001)

In the process of downloading it now 

I left my work computer on 3 carracho servers lol 
1 for music vids
1 for OS X
1 for misc for a friend.

There was a queue of 20 people before me lol so I hope the server doesn shut down later on tonite or tomorrow lol.. I wanna get it 
The good thing is that my work computer is on T1 so I can get it fast 


Admiral


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## Vaporboy (Sep 22, 2001)

I have a wallstreet G3 with a DVD Player but on install of the newest version of 10.1 i do NOT have the DVD Player in my Applications folder... any magic to doing this?

-erik


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## WoLF (Sep 22, 2001)

admiral you need to get some access to my server with those speeds..

although its upload to download, ha! and private!
WoLF's Apple T1 Server
classified under ethernet bandwidth


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 22, 2001)

upload ??? hmmm the concept is foreign to me  lol... just kidding 

Hey whatever happened to that carracho OS server ? It had almost every PPC os out there 


I hope wolfden (or whaever its called) did not go down and up again lol  I would hate to have it not downloaded when I get in on monday 


Admiral


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## omegaroot (Sep 22, 2001)

Has anyone noticed a decent speed improvement when moving from 5G40 to 5G64?? I ask this because I havent, in fact almost feels like I havent upgraded at all. Though my kernal version would beg to differ. and im on a DP too!!


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## swizcore (Sep 22, 2001)

My system has shown definite improvement from even 5g59 to 5g64.  Stability is better, there are no stutters, all is much improved for me.
I just feel overall alot more confident with the system than previous builds.


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## monty (Sep 23, 2001)

I haven't got 10.1 yet but WHY isn't wget there? I don't see why apple would drop it. It's not like it takes up much space and AFAIK it doesn't have any security problems. Maybe it was a slip when they made the installer and it will be in the final.
Is there any thing else missing (compared to 10.0.4)? Or have they singled out wget for some reason? I know I can get wget and install it my self (I did this to upgrade it form 1.5.3, the version that comes with OSX, to 1.6) but i'm curious to know why they dropped it.

Peter


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## Pascal (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *I hope wolfden (or whaever its called) did not go down and up again lol  I would hate to have it not downloaded when I get in on monday*


I hope you have better luck than me : I have _almost_ downloaded 5G64 _twice_... only to come back in the morning and see that the servers had crashed at about 50 MB (the first time) and 20 MB (the second time) before the end. Since I could never log back on these same (understandably busy) servers, I now have two ~450 MB _door-stops_ on my hard drive ! 

If anybody here feels like being "extra-generous", please feel free to send me a private message !  (Really !  )

[Edit : thanks for your generosity ! I'm OK now...]


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## tazmandevil (Sep 23, 2001)

does anyone know, where i can download a preview version of Puma?... i have Carracho and Limewire and at this moment i can use a 512kb line!...


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## Pascal (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by tazmandevil _
> *does anyone know, where i can download a preview version of Puma?... i have Carracho and Limewire and at this moment i can use a 512kb line!...  *


 If I can ever, ever finish to d/l the thing... I'll tell you where to find it... (IYSWIM)


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## tazmandevil (Sep 23, 2001)

... soon?... hihi, and what's d/i?... deinstall / install ???


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## Pascal (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by tazmandevil _
> *and what's d/i?... deinstall / install ??? *


Well, the letters are rather a D and a L (and that's short for download) !


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## tazmandevil (Sep 23, 2001)

hmmm... this 512kb rocks! ..... could it be sooner or later ????


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## Pascal (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by tazmandevil _
> *could it be sooner or later ????*


 For now, I'm afraid the answer is _later_. But if and when I have the disk image, I'll leave you a note...


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## PoweMACuser (Sep 23, 2001)

the x 10.1 speed is now ok. I can bear it. But it is still slower than Windows 2k. And the finder still lag, but better than before. when you open the applications up to a certain number, the switch between them still get problem.

In a word, just better; Should be better than just better.


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## swizcore (Sep 23, 2001)

Depends on your hardware i guess, regardless of how many apps I have open they all switch between without a lag or stutter of window redraw. Apps open on no more than 1 complete bounce in X and classic apps are open and useable in time equal to that when I am booted in classic. My system is without question faster than 9.2.1 and waaaaay faster than any Windows system Ive used (but admittedly Ive never used a PC box that was worth a poop).


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## marmoset (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by monty _
> *I haven't got 10.1 yet but WHY isn't wget there? I don't see why apple would drop it. It's not like it takes up much space and AFAIK it doesn't have any security problems.
> *



I recall reading that Apple was interested in moving from wget to curl (a similar application that actually has a few features wget lacks), since wget is a GNU tool (hence, under the GPL) and curl is  licensed under something fairly close to the X11 license (much more compatible with the APSL than the GPL is.)


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 23, 2001)

Can someone look under the inernational pane and tell me if there are any gree encodings under the keyboards ? (sameplace as japanese, chinese, roman and cyrilic are


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## rhale1 (Sep 23, 2001)

Anyone with 5G48 or later and an AirPort card:

Open AirPort Setup Assistant and get a screen shot of the options for Setting Up a Network. Is Software Base Station there?



Thanks!
Ryan


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## Kristjan (Sep 23, 2001)

Finally managed to get the image on to a CDR. The "nocd solution" didn't work at all for me. Had to send the image to a PC friend with a CDRW. I'm still amazed this worked out.

The speed increase is truly amazing on my Mac. It's infact as fast, and faster than Mac OS 9.x. This is more than I expected. DVD works flawlessly. IE could still improve, but atleast the speed is as good as in 9.x (= half the speed of the Windows version).

Vrooooooooooooom...


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## Red Phoenix (Sep 23, 2001)

Really? You think IE is faster on the PC? I've always felt it was faster with Mac OS 9, and I like to give credit to Microsoft's Mac division when it's due. I usually use Netscape 4.7x when on a PC because of that. Granted, most of my PC friends think IE is faster, but I've never really cared for their opinions.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 23, 2001)

Hmmm
a weird thought:
I had installed G48 and then G59 on my machine
NEITHER one of the two had DVD playback or cd making functions.  In G48 I had cyrillic but G59 removed it 

do you guys think I will have similar probs with G64 ?
Keep in mind that formating IS NOT an option 


Admiral


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## vic (Sep 23, 2001)

check my os x review, -osx 10.1 review by vic- and see pics on my web site with cd burning and othe perty things, they work, i used them!


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## Pascal (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *Keep in mind that formating IS NOT an option *


Keep in mind that formating WILL BECOME an option !


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## swizcore (Sep 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Pascal _
> *Keep in mind that formating WILL BECOME an option !  *



he he he. well said.


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## bitburn (Sep 23, 2001)

Why all this explanation about getting OS X for free?!!

I never NEVER pay for software either and I got it all !!!!!!!!


HEHE!!


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 24, 2001)

Pascal tu es drole lol 

better start backing up my stuff again 

One more thing I noticed in G59 is that it doesnt recognize me external firewire HD  !!!!!!!


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## macavenger (Sep 24, 2001)

You can get away without formating if you have something to show you the invisible files. Simply delete everything having to do with OS X (which is most of the invisible files) and you should be doing a nice clean install. Unless OS X hides something in some other location than the partition it is installed on... I used this method after a failed install of 5g49, when simply reinstalling OS X 10.0.0 from the original install CD left me with a kernel panic on startup. Everything seemed to work after that...


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## zerorex (Sep 24, 2001)

This is in reply to two of the admiral's posts, if someone else has already replyed, then forgive me, im only on page two of the thred (longes one ive ever started  ), and dont want to forget why im relpying 

1.  





> Can someone look under the inernational pane and tell me if there are any gree encodings under the keyboards ? (sameplace as japanese, chinese, roman and cyrilic are



When I installed, I removed all the locolization packages and I didnt see cyrilic or greek listed, but I wasnt looking that close, I can check again when I get home and back on my mac.  Seeing that English and Bad Sothern English are my only two languages, the localization packages were close to 200meg of blot I could trim.  Still a little upseting that I had to install 111Meg of printer drivers when I only have one little ol' Epson 777i, but hay at least it works 

2.  





> Keep in mind that formating IS NOT an option



Well, I can see your point, the first install of 5g64 was an update of my existing 10.0.4 install.  I noticed a good speed increase, and the update went well.  After doing a little testing and coming to the dessition that it was time to start using os x as my primary os, I backed everything I could find up to cd and reformated.  I now have os 9.2.1 and os 10.1 on the same drive, and the speed is even better.  I am sure this is do to it being a fresh install and not an update, so you may want to spend the time to make formatting an option


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## zerorex (Sep 24, 2001)

> _Originally posted by knighthawk _
> *That brings up an interesting question...
> 
> Does the 10.1 updater update from 10.0.0?  That is the install CD that I bought, and I would rather update it straight from that instead of downloading the 10.0.4 patch again.  I have been planning on reformating with the new version comes out.
> ...



If you have the 10.1UPDATE, it will require that you have X installed somewhere (dosnt matter where).  And it will only allow you to install 10.1 on that partition.  BUT when you come to the install, you can choose to format that partion and start from scratch, so yes the update is a full install, but checks to make sure you have a preexiting install.  The full version however does not have this requirement.  

Of course if 9.x and 10.0.x are on the same drive, you are screwed


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## zerorex (Sep 24, 2001)

> _Originally posted by bitburn _
> *Why all this explanation about getting OS X for free?!!
> 
> I never NEVER pay for software either and I got it all !!!!!!!!
> ...



I know, I know, 3 post in a row, but hey i had to catch up 

bitburn, its simple.  most of us here at macosx.org actually LIKE apple.  Unlike most windozers, we buy apple products because not only are the products good, but we want apple to succeed.  My personal pholosiphy on software is as follows.  I will d/l it for free, and if I feel the price is resonable, I use the product for the perpous it was intended, and its not made by Microsoft, I will pay for it.  Otherwise, I wont.  

For example, I PAID FOR Mac OS X, I PAID for pepper(text editor for X), I DID NOT PAY for Final Cut Pro, I DID NOT PAY for Microsoft office.  Mac OS X is a consumer operateing system, and only cost 128 dollars, thats nothing to laugh at, but it was worth it for the quality of the product.  Also I am a consumer and I am useing it on a consumer machine.  There for it meets all points of my pholosiphy.  My use of Final Cut Pro does not.  I think for what it does, the price is resonable, and it is not made by microsoft, but I dont use it for profesional video editing.  I use it OCATIONALY to edit my home movies and to play with, but I make no money off of it.  Microsoft office is made by Microsoft, so I refuse to pay for it, also the price is way way inflated.  


Basicly here is the jist.  I feel I need to explain why I dl'ed the 10.1 update illicitly because under normal circumstances I would have paid for it.  Just as I paid for OS X final.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 24, 2001)

As apple said OS X 10.1 update is *free*, just shipping costs and such.  Eliminate shipping costs and you can get it for free (well the price for your internet connection) on the net.


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## BBenve (Sep 24, 2001)

Guys either you use it or not.. a software must be payed or not used... i understand the dload to ..try before you buy..as i did with Illustrator 10...and i am gonna buy it .. 1st cause i need it 2nd cause it is awesome
The... i don t use it or i use fro personal use .. is not an excuse for not paying a software and it won't make it legal..!!!!!


Andy


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## serpicolugnut (Sep 24, 2001)

zerorex - 

Keep this in mind -

You say you use MS Office but refuse to pay for it because it's a Microsoft product...

If everyone treated software like you, we'd have NO Office for the Mac and the platform would suffer greatly.

It's childish and short sighted (not to mention Illegal) to use an MS product, but refuse to pay for it. If you were really serious in your rebellion against MS, you wouldn't use their products at all. Microsoft's Mac products are made by the Mac Business Unit, which is an entirely different company that has MS ties and produces MS themed products. But they are every bit the Mac lover that you are and then some. Don't believe me? Read this.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0109/24.macbu.php

Personally, I download warez and give it a run through myself. But, if I use it (whether I make money from using it or not), I PAY FOR IT. If I don't, I delete it off of my hard drive. Eventually, the paying customers of Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, etc. are going to grow tired of the non paying customers of said companies using the same products we pay for for free, and at that point, don't be surprised if someone is ratting you out to the SPA.


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## serpicolugnut (Sep 24, 2001)

I downloaded the OS X version of Office, and was so impressed by it (even at the early beta stage), that I went out and bought the Word/Entourage combo now, just so I could upgrade to Office v. X when it becomes available. $135 for Word/Entourage, plus $149 for Office v. X upgrade = Total Office for OS X for under $300. Pretty damn good deal.

Come on people. Put your money where your mouth is and pay for the great software you use.


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 24, 2001)

I consider myself one lucky b@$t@rd because I work for an accademic institution so I can get what I want at a discount   Or if my uni mass orders I can put an order in and get a cheaper price, or just take advantage of the site license hehehe 


Admiral


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## Jadey (Sep 24, 2001)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt _
> *What kernel is in your version of 10.1?
> 
> umane -r
> ...



I realize this is probably a typo, but it's actually:

"uname" not "umane" for those new to CLI


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## vic (Sep 24, 2001)

no wonder! i was startring to curse at my computer!


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## zerorex (Sep 24, 2001)

In reply to those who have posted their opinon on my softwarez pholosophy, I can completely see your point of view, and it would be nice to be able to afford every peace of software I will ever use.  

And im not going to get into an argument about "If you cant aford to pay for it, dont get it", because we have a fundimental difference in our openions.  I think that the intended use of the software should be included in the argument, and it is ovious some of you dont.  I think you have very valid points and on many levels are right.  At the same time, I think much of what I feel has some validity also.  

So how about we agree to disagree, and concentrate on Mac OS X which I do own a licens for and which I think we all can agree is one hell of an os.  

If we cant agree on that point, I would like to request the admin close this thread as to avoid any flame wars and wasted space in the forums.  

This is the last I have to post on this issue..


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## EZX (Sep 25, 2001)




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## uoba (Sep 25, 2001)

Goddammit,

This is what I get for listening to you people!! 

What's the difference?


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 25, 2001)

What ? R u serious ?  damn


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## serpicolugnut (Sep 25, 2001)

IF the GM is 5G68, don't worry. It will install just fine over 5G64 and you won't have any problems. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they churned out a few more builds since G64, mostly due to these bugs I've found....

Writing to a PC Zip Disk bug. OS X creates files (invislble to OS X) that you can see when you bring the disk back over to a PC. Basically it generates a 1 or 2K file with a ._####filename. OS 9 never did this, and neither did 10.0.4.

The F12 key, for some reason, now opens/closes the CD-tray. Very annoying when you have a program (like Lightwave, Dreamweaver, etc) that uses the F12 key extensively.

And lastly, in the "Connect To Server" dialog box, the hard drive proxy icon's mask is messed up. 

Hopefully if 5G68 is the GM, these items from 5G64 will be addressed.


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## uoba (Sep 25, 2001)

Just tried that F12 bug!!??!

Anyway, other bugs since I installed 5G64 a couple of days ago:

Multi-mutli-multi-coloured System type/text in all Save Dialogue windows (60's are back!!)

Several startup problems with Adobe software (Photoshop 6 etc.)


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## serpicolugnut (Sep 25, 2001)

The problem with the multi colored type is due to a change in the carbon libraries. You'll see developers release fixes for their software to cope with this. Apparently, I've heard that it affects mostly programs that are created with RealBasic. Which apps are you using that are affected by this?


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

I tried the F12 Cd eject thing and whoa!. First my external Yamaha firewire cdrw ejected, so i pushed F12 again to close it. So it closed as then the internal DVD ejected, so i pushed F12 again to close the DVD, and it closed as the cdrw opened again. Ive been trying to get this to stop for hours but no matter what, when one closes the other opens!. How do i stop this? I have work to do but cant get them both to close!!!!
(no, closing them by hand is not an option)
(yes I am kidding)


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## free&unmuzzled (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by zerorex _
> *Of course if 9.x and 10.0.x are on the same drive, you are screwed  *



And why would that be? I just installed 10.1 on my iBook over 10.0.4 and 9.2.1 on the same drive, same partition. Why would Apple make an install CD that required users to have two drives/partitions? Basically... what the heck are you talking about?!?!??


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

The optimal situation, actually the configuration which Apple suggests, is that you install OSX on one partition and your classic OS on another. Can be the same disk but must be partitioned. If you have OSX and classic OS both installed on one partition of the same disk then you are likely to have trouble when trying to update to 10.1, whereas if you had 1 disk with two partitions you would be smooth sailing for sure. You could still be but, you won't know till you try it. Unless someone who has done it posts their results.


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## uoba (Sep 25, 2001)

I thought this was the de facto thing to do, OSX on one partion, and OS9 on the other.

Why would you want to potentially cram 2 essentially different OS's on 1 partition (especially when most machines have drives of 10gb and up)!!


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## free&unmuzzled (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *IF the GM is 5G68, don't worry. It will install just fine over 5G64 and you won't have any problems. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they churned out a few more builds since G64, mostly due to these bugs I've found....*



Well it would certainly surprise me. They would have to cancel the order to the duplication house, re-schedule another x weeks for QA etc. etc.

It woudn't matter of some over-zealous engineer found and fixed the biggest bug in the world (unlikely since after spending weeks working 20 hour days they have probably all been given a vacation), once development is frozen, its frozen. Any new bug fixes will come out via Software Update.


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## macavenger (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *I thought this was the de facto thing to do, OSX on one partion, and OS9 on the other.
> 
> Why would you want to potentially cram 2 essentially different OS's on 1 partition (especially when most machines have drives of 10gb and up)!! *



Don't new machines from Apple come with OS X installed on the same partition as OS 9? Also, I recall reading, on macfixit.com I believe, that in response to one users tech support request, Apple recommended installing both X and 9 on  the same partition, although MacFixit concluded that this was just a bunch of hot air from a technition who really had no idea.


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## serpicolugnut (Sep 25, 2001)

Yes, Apple does now recommend that 9 / X be on the same partition. That's how all their computers now come from the factory. That's how the Software Restore disks install everything. 

I used to have X / 9 on sep. partitions until I got my new QuickSilver. After I saw the slight speed gains by having them on the same partition, I adjusted the rest of my Mac fleet to do the same.


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

wow, thanks for the info. Might have to give it a shot.


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## vic (Sep 25, 2001)

i knew it! those bastard! they wann fucke everyone over and clogg carracho so they relase some facke info and builds just before the big hit!


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

apple does not care about carracho. and so what if they did release it to developers and make them think(so that we ultimately think) it is the GM?
Is there a prize for being the first person to install the newest OS?
It will still be here this saturday so nothing else matters.


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## vic (Sep 25, 2001)

NNNoootHIIInggg EEEllseeee MMMAatterss!!!


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

heh 
I feel your pain...


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## brodie (Sep 25, 2001)

doesanyone have it on good authority (i want to see it in print-from Apple) that you shoud now put X and classic on the same partition? i cant picture it myself, what are you going to do if you want to clean install?  and, i doont know if im correst, but looking at the file size for an over-installation it looks like it only upgrades the system. im probably wrong on that one, but as for evidence of


> Yes, Apple does now recommend that 9 / X be on the same partition. That's how all their computers now come from the factory. That's how the Software Restore disks install everything



well, they're not going to partition every HD they ship are they?
and the 5G68 thing? is this all based on one members spittle of poison to wind you guys up? free&unmuzzled has it right im sure.

oh, and swizcore, check your mail...


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## brodie (Sep 25, 2001)

i dont know if this is news to you guys/gals, but check out:
http://xicons.macnn.com/articles/defaults.phtml 

for all your personalisation needs.


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## zerorex (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by free&unmuzzled _
> *
> 
> And why would that be? I just installed 10.1 on my iBook over 10.0.4 and 9.2.1 on the same drive, same partition. Why would Apple make an install CD that required users to have two drives/partitions? Basically... what the heck are you talking about?!?!??   *



That comment was in reference to wether the 10.1 UPDATE required that 10 be installed.  What I was saying was that yes it does require 10 be installed, but you will have the option to format after the check is made.  In my personal experiance, it is preferable to install 10.1 fresh and not update an existing 10 install.


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by brodie _
> *i dont know if this is news to you guys/gals, but check out: xicons.macnn.com/articles/defaults.phtml
> for all your personalisation needs. *



Somethin crazy is going on, when i click this link, it opens a new window with my website in it! I even looked at the source code of this page and it says nothing of my site. WhOA! Scary stuff in MacOSX.com land today...


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## brodie (Sep 25, 2001)

try the link now....
http://xicons.macnn.com/articles/defaults.phtml


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## swizcore (Sep 25, 2001)

there we go. what was up with that?.... crazy, its all crazy i say.


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## bobburton (Sep 25, 2001)

Okay here's the thing:

- I'm currently running OS X 10.0.4.
- I got a copy of 10.1 and I'm trying to start the installation, then the system
says it need to restart in order to begin the installation
- during Restart, the install don't run and I'm back where I began!
- I try restarting again holding the C key, but nothing...and back again!
- Under Startup Disk in the System Preferences I choose the CD-ROM as the boot disk...still nothing.

I NEED HELP, Anyone knows what's going on?

THANKS...BB


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## AdmiralAK (Sep 25, 2001)

ok ...
first off is there and actual 10.1 CD in your CD drive when you hold the C key ?

second thing did you burn it yourself (from a download) or is it "official" ?


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## bobburton (Sep 25, 2001)

It's a burn-copy, yes.

I tried with holding the C key with CD in, of course.

Thanks..BB


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## alito (Sep 25, 2001)

Tell me wich build is the final 10.1
thanxs


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## vic (Sep 25, 2001)

is it 64 or 68?


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## Pascal (Sep 25, 2001)

> _Originally posted by bobburton _
> *It's a burn-copy, yes.
> 
> I tried with holding the C key with CD in, of course. *


My guess would be that you burned your CD using Toast... and you mounted the image on the desktop to do so. Because of this, Toast used the optimize-on -the-fly feature, witch rendered your CD unbootable in OS X.

Solution ? Reburn a new CD ! (Yes, I know : bummer ! It hapened to me too !) But this time, without mounting the disk image on the desktop. It _will_ now work !


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## Lazarus18 (Sep 26, 2001)

OK, I am an admitted newbie to Hotline. I am also horribly impatient. Could someone kindly direct me to a server that has the latest build? E-mail or private message, whatever (or post it here and watch it get flooded). Since the thing's officially out I don't see it being a big deal anymore. Thanks for your help.

-Rob


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## Lazarus18 (Sep 26, 2001)

OK, I am an admitted newbie to Hotline. I am also horribly impatient. Could someone kindly direct me to a server that has the latest build? E-mail or private message, whatever (or post it here and watch it get flooded). Since the thing's officially out I don't see it being a big deal anymore. Thanks for your help.

-Rob


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## Lazarus18 (Sep 26, 2001)

Nevermind. The forum comes through. Thanks Macavenger (they're right, that is just fun to say)!

-Rob


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## jimr (Sep 26, 2001)

<blockquote>
[rant]
Are you a newbie to life as well?

Doesn't matter the rationalization, if you could fid a good soul on hotline who would be willing to share with you...

godd luck

otherwise the major greed factor is there and most servers either want you to upload versions of software which doesn't exist, wait in some enormous queue and get kicked, or anyway disconnected when you get to the front of the line, or they want you to pay 5$ to paypal for the privelige of using their slow connection.

All of these are in varying shades of legality with the last example being the worst.  Especially since those 5$ servers are <b>always</b> pay for entry.

When you want to do something that is questionable ...be discreet.

you should have to find your own way through this. impatiently or otherwise...
<b>
Anyway, if anybody actually knew where a good server was located, would they telll?
</b>
Hotline has been ruined by opportunists and leeches.  one begets the other.
in both directions.
<hr>
In the meantime, if you do some simple calculation you can realize that Apple <b>will not make any money</b> on the CD distribution.

a couple of office girls to take the orders, the actual shipping costs, and the cost of the CD.  add up to just about enough profit to pay for the electricity and telephone charges they will consume in the process.

<b>Next time, </b>let's propose to Apple to get 100's of volunteer servers to mirror all over the world for free.  Then people will complain they have not enough bandwidth, or time, or CDR, or knowhow, and <b>beg</b> to have someway that they can just pay someone to deliver it, to them.

While you are thinking about that better get down on your knees and thank GOD that Apple doesn't do business like microsoft (who is "planning to try" to extract a $30/month "subscription" for XP and Office software) who just sits around shrugging their shoulders wondering why more people won't patch their ever-so-popular holely server software to get rid of the insidious worms

[/rant]

</blockquote>


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## Lazarus18 (Sep 26, 2001)

Jeez pal. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. 

I have no problem with the $20. I wouldn't pay it if I were patient, I'd just drive 25 minutes to the nearby Apple Store. That was not my intent, so don't go jumping down my throat. I was just trying to find a way to get the final faster than going to a store. I have never d/led any of the builds before this, paid of OS x 10.0 etc etc. Heck, I paid for the privilege of beta testing it for Apple. It seemed people in this thread had sources, and yes, I was hoping one would be kind enough to share. Other people on this forum made it a moot point by posting locations to get it without being selfish about it. Don't blame me or lump me with leeches and opportunists for ruining Hotline. 

-Rob


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## swizcore (Sep 26, 2001)

How about everybody just leave Hotline discussion at the Hotline sites. It tends to bring down the morale of Apple supporting users. 
(Which most of which will also tinker with HL but its one of those "don't ask, don't tell" deals; or is it out of sight out of mind? anyhew...)
Let's keep the discussions friendly 'eh.


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## vic (Sep 26, 2001)

which one is the final! 68 or 64, some people say 68  does not exist! but 64 has some cheap bugs that make me think it is not finished.... so which one is it! are there going to be many different builds of 64?  oe waht?


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## swizcore (Sep 26, 2001)

My .02
5g64 is the final and any bugs reported by users to Apple will be addressed via software update.
Again, just my .02
I have developer access and have yet to here from my sources any mention of another build prior to yesterdays release.


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## rhale1 (Sep 27, 2001)

Apple's Cocoa-Dev Mailing List has had a short topic on this. They say that 5G64 is the GM.


> 5G64 was the GM build for Mac OS X 10.1.
> 
> Potential future trivia question: the Mac OS X Developer Tools 10.1 CD went
> GM at 5G59.



The 10.1 Developer Tools should also be available soon.


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