# QUARK - backward compatability



## Richard9901 (Nov 10, 2003)

A problem we are having here is that we can save Quark documents in Quark 6 as either Quark 6 or Quark 5, but not Quark 4. We are now using OSX. 

I seems that a lot of our customers are still only on V4 and have a problem opening files from us. As a short term workaround the files can be saved in PDF format, but not really good enough. 


I spoke to Quark, and they agreed that each version will only support the previous version. Version 5 is also not available for OSX though if that was an option. 


Quark have suggested that a product for backward compatibility is available athttp://www.markzware.com/main/, I couldn't see anything there at a quick glance though. 


Anyone with experience on how to enable us to save our Quark 6 files so that Quark 4 systems can read them? 


Any ideas greatly appreciated


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## toast (Nov 10, 2003)

http://www.markzware.com/markztools5/


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## Gurnox (Nov 10, 2003)

Anyone know of anything similar for Adobe Illustrator?


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## Richard9901 (Nov 10, 2003)

I rang markzware and they told me the following:

1) tools 5 will not convert osx v6 files to v5 or v4. They are currently developing something for this (marzwaretools 5.5), but will not be available for a few months

2) saving in format V5 from quark 6 is still causing problems when attempted to be opened under v5 on os9. This must be a problem with quark compatibility themselves. 

Unless there's another clever product out there, this is not looking positive, apart from going back to v4 on os9 for a few months.


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## toast (Nov 10, 2003)

Well, why not providing your customers with PDF files ?


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## Gurnox (Nov 10, 2003)

A lot of the time in the 'media' sort of environment, it's because they specifically ask for files in a certain format and won't take anything else. 

Hell, we have clients that won't upgrade to the newest verison of Stuffit Expander and that's <i>freeware</i>. 

And, after all, the customer is always right 



			
				toast said:
			
		

> Well, why not providing your customers with PDF files ?


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## Richard9901 (Nov 10, 2003)

thats about right Gurnox, the customer wants it to load it up and work with it before printing.


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## RacerX (Nov 10, 2003)

The best alternative is to set up an older system running Mac OS 9 and Quark 5 that everyone can use for converting down to 4.

A few weeks ago I put together an 8500 (with a 604e/250) for running older versions of software for one of my clients. I set it up as a general workstation with copies of 8.x/9.x apps. It comes in handy for converting backwards, and as a work space for any temp designers they bring on for jobs.


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## Gurnox (Nov 10, 2003)

It's a real pain in the backside. It wouldn't be so bad if earlier versions of Quark ran fine under OS X in Classic mode. Unfortunately, we've not had any success in this area. If anyone knows of any patches that will allow earlier versions of Quark to run under OS X/Classic, that would be a real bonus.  

We've ended up sticking with OS 9.2, and it's unreliability/lack of security, until our customers upgrade. Not ideal, but it's the customers who pay the bills at the end of the day.

Of course this is going to cause problems when you can no longer get hold of G4 Powermacs as the G5, as far as I know, won't run 9.2.  

Nice one Apple/Quark!



			
				Richard9901 said:
			
		

> thats about right Gurnox, the customer wants it to load it up and work with it before printing.


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## Richard9901 (Nov 10, 2003)

Not sure what you mean about running older Quark on OSX classic mode. Does that mean booting a dual boot mac in OS9, or is there another way to run OS9 software under OSX.

Also, Racerx, have you had success saving on OSX Quark 6 into Quark 5 format, and then loading into Quark 5 sitting on a dedicated OS9 mac?


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## RacerX (Nov 10, 2003)

Gurnox said:
			
		

> Nice one Apple/Quark!



I've been outline upgrade paths for quite some time now for my clients. Some companies were upgrade friendly, others were not.

Examples: 

*Apple Computer* (upgrade friendly): Apple made sure that for a few years many of their systems would boot into both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. That few year window should have been more than enough for those who saw the direction things were heading in. Apple still has some G4s that dual boot, but for the most part Apple hardware is now Mac OS X only.
*Adobe Systems* (upgrade friendly): Adobe made versions of most of their major software that would run in both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. They did this for a few years to let customers ease into Mac OS X. These included Acrobat 5.0.5 (minus Distiller), InDesign 2.0, GoLive 6.0, LiveMotion 2.0, Illustrator 10.0, Photoshop 7.0 and ImageReady 7.0. Starting with Acrobat 6 and now with the release of the Creative Suite of apps, Adobe has gone Mac OS X only.
*Microsoft* (nonfriendly upgrade): Microsoft chose to make Office v.X Mac OS X only and Office 2001 Mac OS 9 only. This forces their customers to buy another version to make the move to Mac OS X or use the older version in _Classic_ mode (and they wondered why sales of Office v.X were weak when first released).
*Quark Inc.* (nonfriendly upgrade): Quark released the uninspired QuarkXPress 5.0 (Mac OS 9 only) after Adobe had released InDesign 2.0 (Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X). Almost no one upgraded to QuarkXPress 5.0 as the features were not worth the upgrade. Quark released QuarkXPress 6.0 (Mac OS X only) and made sure that working with QuarkXPress 4.x and 3.x would be difficult at best. To this day I still wonder why Quark didn't take a few extra months to make QuarkXPress 5.0 run in both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X.

Basically some companies took the time to make the move easier while others saw it as a way of getting paid for basically the same product twice.

Apple and Adobe took pains to make life easier and Microsoft and Quark saw this as a way of gouging their clients.


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## RacerX (Nov 10, 2003)

Richard9901 said:
			
		

> Also, Racerx, have you had success saving on OSX Quark 6 into Quark 5 format, and then loading into Quark 5 sitting on a dedicated OS9 mac?



I think it has been successful. I haven't had any calls about the set up, but then again most of the designers moved to InDesign and only one is using QuarkXPress 6 on Mac OS X. They also have someone using QuarkXPress 4.11 on a old G3, so I assume they work together on some projects. And I know they work with another client who is still using QuarkXPress 3.32, so they must be able to make something way of working together.



I'll have to ask later in the week when I stop in here.


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## Richard9901 (Nov 10, 2003)

Thanks for all relies so far, the people at markzware had mentioned that they had received a lot of calls on this subject. 

In summary, depending on how old my mac (its a  G4), I may be able to setup a dual boot and run an older version of QUARK. If we are working in V6 in OSX, I would have to have V5 running in the classic mode, to then be able to convert into V4, which is required by our customers.

Now, I'd have to think it would be too expensive to go out and buy V5, just to be able to convert V6 files into V4 files, but as it stands at the moment, probably the only option until markzware come out with another neat product (markzwaretools 5.5) in the next few months.

AND, no guarantees at this stage that QUARK 5 can support reading in a file saved in V6 as a V5 file, and then save it as a V4 file, although RacerX believes this is probably working, and will confirm (many thanks!).


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## toast (Nov 10, 2003)

RacerX: many companies compensated their upgrade-to-X costs using their customer base. The unfriendly cases are legion. In fact, most companies either chose this option, either did not upgrade.


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## Gurnox (Nov 10, 2003)

RacerX said:
			
		

> *Quark Inc.* (nonfriendly upgrade): Quark released the uninspired QuarkXPress 5.0 (Mac OS 9 only) after Adobe had released InDesign 2.0 (Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X). Almost no one upgraded to QuarkXPress 5.0 as the features were not worth the upgrade. Quark released QuarkXPress 6.0 (Mac OS X only) and made sure that working with QuarkXPress 4.x and 3.x would be difficult at best. To this day I still wonder why Quark didn't take a few extra months to make QuarkXPress 5.0 run in both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X.[/list]
> .



I certainly agree on that front. We don't find Office such an issue Mac wise (We don't have much call to use it surprisingly enough) but Quark...... 

It baffles me that a company should have so many versions in the wild and not have means to save between the different formats. OK, Quark 3 and 4 should be pushing up the daisies by now, but customers still use them. Surely they must see the market for an  add on of some kind that could convert between the file formats? If we knew we could still support our 'slower-on-the-upgrade-cycle' clients and use Quark 6, we would. Quark get more money, we get (marginally) better software.  So, for the sake of a few months (Weeks? They already have the 'save as' code from the previous versions surely?) they are screwing everybody. Including themselves.

Agree on the Adobe front. They've always been pretty good at releasing worthwhile upgrades and by being helpful when we've (albeit rarely) neded to call them. If I could switch our subs dept to InDesign tomorrow, I would. It beats Quark hands down in just about every area.  

Apple seem to be slowly but surely falling into the same trap that Microsoft laid for themselves. How long before we see an anti-trust case dropped on them for Panther?  The only thing they've not included in the OS is a way of having it make you coffee. Now *that* would be something!


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## Gurnox (Nov 10, 2003)

Richard9901 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all relies so far, the people at markzware had mentioned that they had received a lot of calls on this subject.
> 
> In summary, depending on how old my mac (its a  G4), I may be able to setup a dual boot and run an older version of QUARK. If we are working in V6 in OSX, I would have to have V5 running in the classic mode, to then be able to convert into V4, which is required by our customers.



Dual booting is, mercifully, pretty easy. It'll probably p**s your users off no end but at least you can blame Quack for their inconvenience.  

Make sure you don't format your drive using UFS though. MacOS 9 won't be able to read it.


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## mdnky (Nov 10, 2003)

Makes me glad I use ID...at least it transfers correctly among versions.

I doubt it'll be much more than 2 years before Quark folds if they don't do something really quick to 1.) catch up and 2.) fix the problems.


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