# Microsoft tries to steal Macworld thunder



## ~~NeYo~~ (Jul 15, 2002)

*(Another Article i thought you guys'd wanna Check out)* 

Microsoft on Monday launched the first of several pre-emptive strikes against Apple Computer's Macworld trade show by making announcements about new technologies far ahead of their delivery to market. 

In Microsoft's first salvo, the company revealed details about the next version of its digital media technology, code-named Corona, including that it officially will be known as Windows Media 9 Series. Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates is slated to launch the first public beta, or test, version of Windows Media at a Sept. 4 event. This and other digital media and consumer announcements, expected this week, are designed to steal thunder from Macworld, which starts Wednesday in New York. Last week, Microsoft said that later this year it will release a new line of 802.11b wireless networking products. Apple has been selling similar technology, called AirPort, for more than two years. 

Microsoft apparently believes that it has delivered on the promises of the five-year agreement but that Apple has failed to do what is necessary to properly support its partners. Microsoft, for example, was instrumental in helping Apple resolve problems with Mac OS X (70 bug fixes contributed by the MacBU, and the MacBU unit taking the heat for a delay in shipping Office v. X when indeed the delay in bringing Office v. X to OS X was in bugs discovered by Microsoft in their new OS). That effort culminated in the September release of Mac OS X 10.1, soon followed by the release of Office v. X and many other important applications that run natively on the new operating system. 

Microsoft's Mac commitment appears to be wavering, spurred in part by recent actions on the part of Apple. One such action, the inclusion of the iChat instant messenger program with Mac OS X 10.2 that connects to AOL's Instant Messenger network, caught Microsoft executives by surprise. And the Apple/Netscape home page deal, for which Microsoft "switched" the browsers default home page from Netscape's to Microsoft's own MSN home page, when they launched IE 5.2 for the Mac just recently!

Apple's Mac OS X 10.2, code-named Jaguar, has raised considerable concern in Redmond as well. Jaguar adds some new features "that have some people loosing sleep," said one source. "You don't know what kind of cultural paranoia we have here" about competitors. 



Source: Here 

NeYo


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## Matrix Agent (Jul 15, 2002)

My first reaction was completely by instinct:

"They wanna drop support, they wanna make hardware, they wanna try and shoot down innovation with vaporware press releases? Well F' Them!"

Well let me step back from that a little, but most of that is true. I think Apple is ready to be independent. They are no longer at the mercy of MS. In addition, let me state that MS entered a "stratigic" partnership with Apple. They knew that they were a threat, weak or not. But this MS partnership was a good thing for both of them. But since when was Steve one to be a friendly guy, looking out for others? 

I'm ready for it to end.


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## edX (Jul 15, 2002)

i suspect the codename Corona came from what they are drinking as they work on it and that the initial release will reflect this.  

also interesting to note that recent Corona commercials always emphasize that their drinkers are not working - maybe that's where the codename came from.


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## adambyte (Jul 15, 2002)

hehe... Microsoft products NEVER work.

"Jaguar adds some new features "that have some people loosing sleep," said one source."

Does that give anybody else a nice warm feeling inside?


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## azosx (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *i suspect the codename Corona came from what they are drinking as they work on it and that the initial release will reflect this.
> 
> also interesting to note that recent Corona commercials always emphasize that their drinkers are not working - maybe that's where the codename came from.  *



According to that article, Microsoft helped Apple squash a lot of the bugs in the first release of OS X.  

The more you underesimate Microsoft, the bigger that slap in the face is going to be in the not so far off future.

Their Corona and Mira technologies are looking quite promising and Microsoft certainly has the ability to deliver.

Microsoft got lax because of no real competition.  Turn up the heat and they'll turn up the stakes.  Technically, their Windows "Longhorn/Blackcomb" releases are beyond anything OS X could possibly offer.

You trash XP because it "sucks" but so did the first release of OS X.  If Microsoft does deliver on "Longhorn/Blackcomb" there's going to be a lot of long faces in Cupertino.

OS X's greatest strength is UNIX, which may also turn out to be it's greatest weakness.  It's 30 year architecture is about to become obsolete.

I for one am very excited about Microsoft's future.  If they can straighten themselves out and start playing by the rules, I think we'll find the quality of their software will improve greatly as well.


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## voice- (Jul 15, 2002)

az: From what I've read Longhorn is kinda liek XP.1, a servicepack to fix problems while BlackComb is their next OS.
Anyway, there's no way of knowing how much they will rule cause we only have MSs word for it.

About stealing thunder, they need to try harder. While MWSF was going on and the keynote was given, Bill Gates stood on a stage of his own and announced an updated remote-control. Sure, that steals users from Gigahertz PowerMacs and flat-screen iMacs...


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## edX (Jul 15, 2002)

> You trash XP because it "sucks" but so did the first release of OS X. If Microsoft does deliver on "Longhorn/Blackcomb" there's going to be a lot of long faces in Cupertino.



were you still taking to me here? because i have never trashed XP specifically. i've never even seen a working copy of XP, that's how little i care about it at this point. 

but I trash m$ all the time. that's because i hate m$. i have a long history of hating m$. I am a bitter old man when it comes to m$ and billy boy. no amount of reason you could provide would change my mind on this one  

You, my young man, were probably not able to ride a bicycle yet when i first started to hate m$. billy boy had yet to become the richest man in the world. and now, everyday i read something here or elsewhere, often the mainstream news, that confirms to me why i should fear and hate them. My fear is fed by people like yourself who think that if they just made a better product, they would be ok again. Why can't we just let somebody else make a better product and let m$ go the way of savings and loans in america?

primarly because it would mean that millions of users worldwide would have to admit that they have been buying their own problems for too long of a time.


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## Ricky (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by adambyte _
> *hehe... Microsoft products NEVER work.*


Heh, check my sig.  

It was to be expected that Microsoft would do this sort of thing so close to MacWorld.  I don't mind, we're going to blow them away.


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## xaqintosh (Jul 15, 2002)




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## Javintosh (Jul 15, 2002)

Actually, this is a vieled compliment to Apple and MacOS X...

Doing this kind of stuff is par for the course for Micro$haft. They've routinely done it to companies as big as Novell, IBM and Sun and also to small companies like Citrix....

The announcement is virtually meaningless as this stuff is a looong way into the future and planned features/functionality will most certainly change dramatically between now and the time products actually ship....

If history is any indication, everything will be scaled down significantly.  

I for one, am glad that Bill and MonkeyBoy think apple is enough is a threat for them to pull this tired old stunt. They should, however, get a new trick since people will eventually catch on...


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## azosx (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *az: From what I've read Longhorn is kinda liek XP.1, a servicepack to fix problems while BlackComb is their next OS.
> Anyway, there's no way of knowing how much they will rule cause we only have MSs word for it.
> 
> About stealing thunder, they need to try harder. While MWSF was going on and the keynote was given, Bill Gates stood on a stage of his own and announced an updated remote-control. Sure, that steals users from Gigahertz PowerMacs and flat-screen iMacs... *



"Longhorn" was originally intended to be just another upgrade but has developed into much more.  

"Blackcomb" will be completely new and unlike anything seen before.  It's major strength will be a completely new filesystem expected to crush the competition.


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## voice- (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *
> "Blackcomb" will be completely new and unlike anything seen before.  It's major strength will be a completely new filesystem expected to crush the competition. *



So was Windows XP, we're still here as far as I can tell...


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## azosx (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *
> 
> were you still taking to me here? because i have never trashed XP specifically. i've never even seen a working copy of XP, that's how little i care about it at this point.
> ...



Funny you mention the Savings & Loan scandal, I'm a friend of the Keating family.  

No, the XP remark wasn't directed at you personally but to anti-MS zealots in general.

I was alive and using the Apple II before Microsoft was known for much of anything and certainly not the Windows GUI.  

I'm not trying to change your mind, I just question your reasoning.  If it wasn't MS controling the way you live, it would be someone else, possibly Apple.

You're under this great misconception that if MS, AOL and every other big business fell, all would be good.  The reality is, if they were to fall, some other tyrant would take their place.  History has repeated and proven this time and time again.

It's certainly a lot safer for MS to be reformed, stay where they are rather than be replaced by the unknown.


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## azosx (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *
> 
> So was Windows XP, we're still here as far as I can tell... *



Uhm, no.  Windows XP is just an extension of 2000 which is just an extension of NT which is just an extension of Windows 3.51.

That's the same as saying OS 9 was something totally new.

Liken "Blackcomb" to XP what OS X was to OS 9.


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## googolplex (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm sure we are all excited about Palladium as well. Where microsoft will control every part of our lives. Give me a break Microsoft is no less evil now then before.

Azosx, you confuse me


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## azosx (Jul 15, 2002)

What's the difference between Palladium which as of now is vaporware, and the control Apple has on it's hardware?

It's all about protecting their ass from peons like ourselves who manage to take advantage of them any chance we get.  Be it ripping mp3's or downloading warez by the GB, we're all guilty of it one way or the other and they're just trying to put a stop to it.

Several idiots wrote articles about what Palladium "could turn into", so what?  You people take it to heart like it actually exists today.  I liken it to the panic that insues everytime someone reads an EULA.  The crazy stuff software companies put in there are only to protect themselves in the off chance someone finds a way to totally exploit them.  

The same with MS Product Activation.  Months before it came out, people were crying "the end of the world."  As of today, has one person been harmed or effected by it?  No.  I haven't even read a story about someone having to get a new serial because they installed too much hardware.  It's all silliness spread by who have nothing better to do than fear.

Until I get a Palladium box that doesn't allow me to install Linux, I'm not buying into this paranoid BS everyone is trying to spread.  If it doesn't allow me to rip mp3's or download and install warez, more power to them.


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## Javintosh (Jul 15, 2002)

did you say great features like a new file system and Palladium?!?! Or did you mean great features like snubbing MPEG4 in favor of a DRM-laden proprietary format that will chain your wallet to Micro$ucks, RIAA and MPAA? I personally think fair use of copyrighted music is nothing but a red communist plot and cancer to undermine our societal fabric. I look forward to the day when I have to ask for permission from microsoft to copy my CDs into a portable music player.

oh yeah, it is *good* that you have to call micro$tiff for a new activation key if you upgrade your WinXP computer too much.

Personally, I can see why you'll be excited about MS installing software in your computer without your knowledge (you did read the EULA for Windows Media Player; did you?). eXPecially given their track record of never breaking anything with upgrades!

Or maybe you are taking a longer term view when you will not be able to run software or open files that have not been approved (signed) by microsoft.

having my personal information encrypted at the CPU/NIC/HDD level is a good thing. then if I even want to abuse documents I have created myself, Microblows can save me by preventing me from accessing my own word documents. I will feel so much safer then...

Come to think of it, I *want* microsoft to know what I search for when I search for files in my own hard drive.

in the end, it really is too stressful for me to have ultimate control over my own computer. I can't handle the pressure. thankfully MonkeyBoy and BillyBob will take care of that for me...

wow. now that's what I call innovation.


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## Javintosh (Jul 15, 2002)

who determines what Warez is? whomever signs the code....

of course, the whole point of signed code is that you can't change it. also, it is going to cost $$$ to get code signed.

both of these things are there to kill off opensource and freeware software.

if an apps source is changed, it is no longer signed, so people can no longer make changes to open source software without getting those changes signed by someone. this makes open source impractical (which is the whole point).

also, if every app needs to be signed and every update to that app needs to be signed, this will kill off freeware. who's going to pay to get free software signed...

you speak of the ills of ripping MP3s, but you *can* RIP MP3s without breaking the law...

Right now I have every CD I own (with more added as I get them) inside iTunes. I use it as a huge jukebox. With the SoundSticks and the Keyspan Digital Media Remote, I can sit in this room and listen to all my music in shuffle mode without changing any CDs or sitting in front of the computer.

I also mix songs and burn CDs for my car and for my wife's car. I have no original CDs on either car. Frankly, my car is a mess and before iTunes I ruined a few CDs by scratching the crap out of them. When that happens now, I simply pull up the play list and burn a new CD.

I also have CDs at work. I don't bring originals to work because people have been known to steal things from other people's cubes. I have not had anything stolen myself, but some coworkers have.

oh yeah, I'm also buying an iPod (20GB version if it comes out). I plan on keeping a substantial part of my songs in there as well...

in addition to the songs I bought, I also have a little over 600 songs I downloaded from the internet. These came from GarageBand.com and were made available by the artists themselves. Most of these bands don't even have a single CD yet. None of the bands are signed anywhere. This is the only way they have to get their music out there. a lot suck, but planty are very good. I have several bands in my watch list when they release their first CD, I'll be buying...

none of these things is illegal. and as long as I don't break the law, I should not have to clear my actions by someone else.

I doubt people would accept these kind of restrictions on other products they buy. woiuld you buy a car if you could only run Toyota gasoline on it? How about if it had GPS and Ford kept a record of everywhere you had been?

the fact is that MS is working hard to take ultimate control away from the customer. Steve jobs on the other hands has stated that these problems are sociological, not technological.


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## voice- (Jul 15, 2002)

Actually, I have every right to rip mp3s for myself, and I intend to keep doing just that.
I doubt that giving MS ultimate power will help me much, I'm not troubled now. If anyone should be allowed to have this control it should be someone who don't make money one it. MS sells an OS and they sell software. Given their history I can tell you that they wouldn't give everyone a fair chance, they would give themselves an advantage any day of the week, because that makes more money. And guess what: money is ALL they care about. Making a safe computer is a step on the way to money, stalling competition is another way. They would do it without hesitation.


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## RyanLang (Jul 16, 2002)

Well, here's my take on all of this.

First of all, no matter what Microsoft tries to do, Windows will always be Windows. The annoying, quirky things that make mac users hate Windows will always be there, similar to how they are there in XP, 2000, ME, 98, 95, 3.1, you get the picture. No matter what anyone says, Microsoft is never going to make something that will be a threat to Apple's OS and it's *community* . Why? It's simple. Microsoft has no taste what-so-ever. They rehash the same OS over and over again and try to wow their customers with things that are ultimately making their experience even worse.  Proof of something along these lines can be experienced by installing 98, using it for a while, then upgrading to ME and well...yeah you get me. And people, don't tell me I am nuts to say that, because I know plenty of consumers that bought a brand spankin' new computer and had to deal with ME. Actually about 99% of this year's freshman class at Brown University had to deal with it and my friend and me had to help a lot of my friend's classmates. One girl from Equador actually said "Can you guys help me, my Microsoft if broken  " 

Back to the point about Apple's users, we are on this platform because we love it and we want to be here and the more people who "switch", the better because it's true that once you go mac you never go back. The problem is that an incredible number of consumer's who buy pc's think that that's all that's out there. They have no clue about Apple and Macs. The switch ads are perfect though, because they explain to the everyday consumer what they've dealt with in Windows and why OSX and Macs are so much better. I really think that this will trigger something in peoples' minds and make them say "hey, I had that problem with my pc too, maybe I'll take a look into what these people are saying." Plus with Apple Retail Stores, even more people are curious as to what all these gorgeous machines are capable of. In the long run, ease of use is where it's at. I could care less about Mhz! Why do people go crazy over this? These machines are fine and dandy. How many of you are running a production house and rendering huge images out of Maya, Lightwave, etc. where you HAVE to have 2ghz G5's right now!? Maybe some, but not as many of you who know people who could really use iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and iDVD for some pretty incredible things. Nothing like this will exist in Windows because they just don't have the level of genius (both in design of software and hardware) that Apple possesses. When it all comes down to it, Apple had seen some horrible times, and those times were survived. We are seeing Apple's finest hour folks, and I assure you, we are here to stay, forever.


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## jeb1138 (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *What's the difference between Palladium which as of now is vaporware, and the control Apple has on it's hardware?
> 
> It's all about protecting ... from peons like ourselves who manage to take advantage of them any chance we get.  Be it ripping mp3's or downloading warez by the GB, we're all guilty of it one way or the other and they're just trying to put a stop to it.
> ...



Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.  There is absolutely no correlation between Palladium and "the control Apple has on it's hardware," except the word "control."

Apple tries to compete by offering a simple, controlled environment.  Microsoft simply tries to control the environment so that it doesn't have to compete.

About those 'idiots,' since I appear to be one, that write about Palladium's potential.  Firstly, please don't result to personal insult as a way of presenting your opinions.  This gets you nothing except disrespect.  Secondly, any time somebody tells me 'not to worry' about something because it's 'so far away' (it is not vaporware, by the way -- read those articles and you will find that parts of Palladium have already been deployed in various places) I get suspicious.

Microsoft didn't get the power to be a monopoly in a day, and if people _had_ worried about what could result from their illegal activities whilst they were practicing them we would not be in the quandry that we are in today, when even numerous states and the Federal government together can't break up Microsoft, after finding them guilty of monopolistic practices, for fear of the negative consequences for the American economy.

About MS Product activation:  if you haven't heard about people having problems after installing new hardware, you must know very different people than I do.  I know several people whose fanatical Microsoft defense has been broken solely because of the wealth of problems and inconveniences that it has created for so many of them.  Why hasn't there been a revolt?  Microsoft doesn't really have to listen to them to remain dominant.

As for our 'illegal' activities -- we are not 'guilty' of ripping MP3's if we own the CD's.  MS, the RIAA, the MPAA and others propose to protect their profits by exterminating (or making extremely difficult) our 'less-important choices.'  And any copy-protection scheme of the sort that these people propose does and will limit, constrict and frustrate the legitimate user.

Some people will make wrong choices and the guilty should be punished.  However, I do not believe that the entire society should be subjugated to overarching and interfering control of the minute details (e.g., listening to music) of their everyday lives by the government.  That would be communism.

And pertaining to all these things in general, the solution is _not_ as simple as saying "if people don't want it they won't buy it."  Microsoft, the RIAA and the MPAA don't _want_ to leave it up to the free market.  They try to use legislation and monopolistic powers to ensure their own 'domestic tranquility.' 

And as to "If it wasn't MS controling the way you live, it would be someone else, possibly Apple" -- I don't know where you come from or what your country believes, but in America we believe that one is innocent until proven guilty, and such 'guesstimate' slander holds no water for educated minds.


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## voice- (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *What's the difference between Palladium which as of now is vaporware, and the control Apple has on it's hardware? *



Apple decides what you have in your Mac when you buy it and can base an OS on that. MS wants to have total control after you set your system up too.
with a Mac you can, as with any OS today, install any application or keep any document you'd like, it's yours and you rule it...with Palladium this freedom would be gone, MS would be able to, at any time, tell you that they don't want you running this and that cause it's a risk to security(i.e. it's competing software, you should have bought MSs software)


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## edX (Jul 16, 2002)

> Microsoft didn't get the power to be a monopoly in a day, and if people had worried about what could result from their illegal activities whilst they were practicing them we would not be in the quandry that we are in today, when even numerous states and the Federal government together can't break up Microsoft, after finding them guilty of monopolistic practices, for fear of the negative consequences for the American economy.



AMEN BROTHER!! the time to do something about things is not after they have become the feared reality - it is at the first indication they will become that reality.  Fear is a survival instinct. When we fear something, it is our instincts telling us something is wrong. We have a fight or flight instinct attached to fear.  Believe me when i say, it is easier to fight against a threat before it is powerful than to flee it once it is.  

fear is only wrong when it debilitates you to the point you can take no action. It is a powerful tool when it motivates us to take control of our own futures rather than have one handed to us by the powers that be.


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## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *
> 
> Apple decides what you have in your Mac when you buy it and can base an OS on that. MS wants to have total control after you set your system up too.
> with a Mac you can, as with any OS today, install any application or keep any document you'd like, it's yours and you rule it...with Palladium this freedom would be gone, MS would be able to, at any time, tell you that they don't want you running this and that cause it's a risk to security(i.e. it's competing software, you should have bought MSs software) *



The bottom line is none of what you're saying is true.  Everything about Palladium being spread is some idiot's theory on what it might be used for.  It doesn't exist.  It may never exist.  You have no idea what the end product may actually turn out to be if it does indeed succeed.


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## RyanLang (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *
> 
> AMEN BROTHER!! the time to do something about things is not after they have become the feared reality - it is at the first indication they will become that reality.  Fear is a survival instinct. When we fear something, it is our instincts telling us something is wrong. We have a fight or flight instinct attached to fear.  Believe me when i say, it is easier to fight against a threat before it is powerful than to flee it once it is.
> ...




EXACTLY

and of course, azosx misses Ed's brilliant point *completely*


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## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeb1138 _
> *
> 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.  There is absolutely no correlation between Palladium and "the control Apple has on it's hardware," except the word "control."
> ...



You're right, there is no correlation between Palladium and Apple because Palladium does not even exist.

If Apple controlled 95% of the market, then what they are currently doing could and would be construed as controlling the environment so that they didn't have to compete as well.  It's all relative.

As for idiots, you're not one of them.  At least I don't think so.  You don't write a column for a major online publication do you?  I mean no offense but these people should know better.  They write FUD about MS because it sells.  Look at yourself, you're completely sold on it and Palladium doesn't even exist.

If you would follow Microsoft's history from day one, you'd see it was pretty much luck that got them into the market and allowed them to become a monopoly rather than the likes of IBM or Apple.  Yes, once they got the share needed they flexed their muscle and acted illegally but no different than anybody else would have or has in the past.  Unlike most monopolies in the past, their run just lasted too long.

Product Activation was what Palladium is today .  Unsubstantiated FUD that never amounted to anything.  Any issues that have arose from PA have been very few and far between.  We run XP boxes, we service them regularly.  Nothing has stopped working as a result of upgrading or swapping out hardware.  

The RIAA and MPAA have every right to protect themselves by any legal means possible.  Yes, they are rich and powerful and their lost revenue due to the illegal downloading of mp3's and movies is likely over exaggerated but still, would you be willing to give a small percent of your pay check every month to anybody who feels like they are entitled to it?

Unfortunately, when one or just a few people mess up, many usually have to suffer the consequences.  This is enforced in school from when you're just a child all the way up into the work place.  Why should it be any different in the consumer market place?  Until you can come up with a better way for the RIAA and Microsoft to combat piracy, what right do you have to tell me that they are doing something wrong?  What you are suggesting is total anarchy by allowing the end user free reign to do what they please.

Suggesting Apple or someone else would take Microsoft's place if they were to fall has nothing to do with being innocent until proven guilty.  What is proven however through the course of history is that this is how Captitalism works.  It's not guesstimated slander and if you can't accept the truth, maybe you should just close your eyes and pretend you are living somewhere else.  It hardly takes an educated mind to discuss the merits of something that they have never seen, know nothing about other than what they've read and that doesn't even exist.

You're asking for control yourself.  Just a different type of control.  You want to live in a world where nobody has an advantage over one another and everybody produces a good to benefit the common man without seeking any form of retribution.  What you're suggesting already exists.  It's called Communism.


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## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyanLang _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



No, I understand Ed completely and the rants of every other anti-MS/big business user.  MS has just never controlled me, I've always had an option.  Whether I currently exercise my options on all fronts is a different story.

As of today, July 16, 2002, Microsoft has never controlled anything I've done, or prohibited me from doing anything I desire.  What can I say?  maybe I'm just really fortunate but I don't feel threatened by a company who will sooner than later be handed the punishment they deserve.

MS had as much control over OS 9 and X as it does Windows.  For the first time years Apple has spoken against Microsoft directly and some how you translate this into liberation.  That's great but remember, you're only here today because Microsoft took an interest in the rotten Apple business.  Surely for personal gain but nevertheless, they were your salvation.


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## lonny (Jul 16, 2002)

Poor azosx:



> If you would follow Microsoft's history from day one, you'd see it was pretty much luck that got them into the market and allowed them to become a monopoly rather than the likes of IBM or Apple. Yes, once they got the share needed they flexed their muscle and acted illegally but no different than anybody else would have or has in the past. Unlike most monopolies in the past, their run just lasted too long.




Your idea of capitalism is F****D UP! Capitalism does not equal "acting illegaly" in my world.


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## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by lonny _
> *Poor azosx:
> 
> 
> ...



The word Capitalism does not even appear in that paragraph thus having no bearing on "acting illegally" through monopolistic means or not, nor does it have anything to do with the thought that paragraph was attempting to invoke in the first place.

It would seem your world is devoted to twisting the words and ideas of others which to me is rather F****D UP in itself and certainly counter productive.


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## Matrix Agent (Jul 16, 2002)

azosx, I was under the impression that the next version of windows would be run on some kind of HFS derivitive. Am I just making up things in my head, or is this true?


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## lonny (Jul 16, 2002)

> It would seem your world is devoted to twisting the words and ideas of others which to me is rather F****D UP in itself and certainly counter productive.



Personal attacks don't help to prove your point.

BTW, if you don't remember your words and really need me to quote them..



> What is proven however through the course of history is that this is how Captitalism works.


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## Boeing777 (Jul 16, 2002)

For those who never saw XP running, let me tell you this. You haven't missed much quite frankly. - It's an ugly GUI OS unless you switch back to the classic 2K interface and there's nothing revolutionary to be honest. 
XP is just another every 6 months "faith upgrade" MS has gone into since day one. - I'm not to worry too much about what they say cause what they release is crap most of the time.

Cheers

(macless but not for too long as I'm getting a Tibook next week )


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## sjb2016 (Jul 16, 2002)

> The RIAA and MPAA have every right to protect themselves by any legal means possible. Yes, they are rich and powerful and their lost revenue due to the illegal downloading of mp3's and movies is likely over exaggerated but still, would you be willing to give a small percent of your pay check every month to anybody who feels like they are entitled to it?



Once, when I was gainfully employed, I did give a rather large part of my pay check to many people that felt they were entitled to it: the government and all the special interests they try to support using my money.  Well, they aren't taking any money from me now, I haven't a job, although I'm going to Japan to teach English.  I'll miss you guys (and there must be some ladies here too, right?)  Oh, one more thing, Microsoft must die!!!


----------



## googolplex (Jul 16, 2002)

The potential for Palladium to be bad is frightening. Are we not allowed to anticipate what might happen if we give Microsoft this kind of power over our lives and actions. Wake up. Microsoft isn't just going to change their ways. Why would they create a system that would allow them to control everything on your computer all the way down to the chips so you don't use 'unlicensed' software or copy MP3s (even if they are your own)? Is it because they are genuinely interested in your well being or is it because they want to get rich and control things.

Thats an easy question to answer.

If we don't worry about it before it arrives it is too late. Things like this have to be stopped before they are implemented. Once Microsoft gets all the brainless suckers into its trap there is no turning back. Thats why we worry now.

I could also point out a few key flaws in the idea behind Palladium as well and how it wouldn't work. DO you want me to explain?


----------



## fryke (Jul 16, 2002)

1.) Microsoft stops the Macintosh Business Unit. The official reason? Too much money wasted for a small market served.

_Analysts and Press alike will say that Apple is now doomed to live a life in a very small niche: Video & Graphics. They will say that there were others that tried to survive that way and failed miserably, for example Atari ST and Amiga._

2.) Apple will do everything to turn AppleWorks into a real Office competitor. Other solutions to replace MS Office will be found, in fact Apple will hire good people to finally make OpenOffice.org a viable solution and a first class citizen under Mac OS X.

_With the Apple shares still falling into a bottomless pit, few people (among press and analysts) believe in a new turnaround. Even a Steve Jobs can't do magic._

3.) Apple will have to go to extremes. The last thing the board of directors wants is to see Apple in the hands of another big company - only to die for good. So the decision is made to turn Apple into a software company, too. Mac OS X on Intel will be released. Many employees from the hardware department will have to leave Apple. The plan is to cooperate with the big one: Sony.

_This will actually be called 'finally a plan' by press and analysts. And other partners will pop up, for example AMD and Dell._


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Jul 16, 2002)

hmmm...

Turned into quite some Debate, this!  

I Do find that alot of you guys have obvious biases towards apple, and do exagerrate your opinions regarding M$. When you make the point over power of the user, i don't think this is so! 

I see their (m$'s) point entirely, in that the way IE, Messenger, Explorer, Outlook intergrate. XP Works VERY well in that respect! Applications intergrate VERY Well with one another, and it does Bring the OS together as a whole. From this, i find that it makes the OS seemless, more as "one". 

I Agree that Certain Apps Could be improved to Make this "seemless" approach more viable, But in IE, they Do have the most Supported Web Browser, so Making it Uninstallable and Heavily Tied into the OS is a Bonus in my eyes. 

For those who haven't tried XP, There are some features of it which may be subtle, But appear more obvious to those who knew Windows 2000 "quite well". Intergration Between apps was One of these.

NeYo


----------



## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by lonny _
> *
> 
> Personal attacks don't help to prove your point.
> ...



Once again let me help you because you're obviously having a hard time.

Here is the complete paragraph about Capitalism, not just one sentence taken out of context.

" Suggesting Apple or someone else would take Microsoft's place if they were to fall has nothing to do with being innocent until proven guilty. What is proven however through the course of history is that this is how Captitalism works. It's not guesstimated slander and if you can't accept the truth, maybe you should just close your eyes and pretend you are living somewhere else. It hardly takes an educated mind to discuss the merits of something that they have never seen, know nothing about other than what they've read and that doesn't even exist. "

As you can see, it makes no mention of illegal activities or monopolistic practices.  

You're really reaching to prove some point you thought you had that never really existed.

I've made no personal attacks against you nor am I trying to prove some point.  I am just trying to correct you in the error of your ways.

I'm sure you'll refute this now by posting what I said about you twisting words as "F****D UP!"  Well, your misinterpretation of how my view of Captitalism worked and how you said it was "F****D UP!" could be misconstrued just the same as well so  don't bother.


----------



## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *hmmm...
> 
> Turned into quite some Debate, this!
> ...



Yes, their bias is what fuels this debate.  They would never be Supreme Court Judges, that's for sure.

They think I'm some pro-MS zealot but that's not the case.  I went 5 years without supporting anything MS or big business for the fears these people hold today about MS.

It's funny how they know so much more, or at least think they do about an OS they don't run and technology that doesn't exist.  I liken it to religious zealots that spend their life trying to learn and refute other religions instead of focusing on what's truly important, their own.

So much time wasted bickering over MS and fearing the future they "seek" to impose on us but I bet not one of these users has ever attempted to do something about it other than bitch.  Write a letter to your Congressman, that's the best place to start.  Actions speak louder than words.

It just gets silly after awhile.


----------



## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *1.) Microsoft stops the Macintosh Business Unit. The official reason? Too much money wasted for a small market served.
> 
> Analysts and Press alike will say that Apple is now doomed to live a life in a very small niche: Video & Graphics. They will say that there were others that tried to survive that way and failed miserably, for example Atari ST and Amiga.
> ...



Your third senario was almost a reality.  Back in '97 when Apple's boat was about to sink, Rhapsody, which later evolved into OS X was released on Intel.  OS X was originally intended to be released on Intel with classic environment and all.

I think Apple was only trying to potition themselves in the market in case the worst case senario came true.

If Apple announces OS X for Intel anytime in the future, you can guarantee the end is near.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *
> 
> Yes, their bias is what fuels this debate.  They would never be Supreme Court Judges, that's for sure.
> ...



LOL! But Az, Our jobs here now are now clear! To Make these Debates more Open!  

NEYo


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## hulkaros (Jul 16, 2002)

Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)

Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...

Finally, let's just say the above guy decides to buy XP in order to use it in all his machines... Nope! Boom! Kaboom! He cannot do that because he cannot activate the XtraPain in no more than 2 machines and in some cases no more than 1    What can he do? Buy MORE licenses from M$ of course!

Since when copying Audio CDs, movies, etc. is illegal? Since big companies like M$ got more greedy that is! Let's just say that I want to copy an Audio CD: I can use ANY tape recorder, mini disc recorder, etc. As for movies I could use a VCR, a video camera and so on... So why all that big deal with MP3 and DivX? If this is not GREED then what is? First they provided consumers with the tools to copy EVERYTHING and then they went on and told them that if they do that they are acting illegal... This is NAZI's behavior and M$ is their leader which if you ask me, Bill Gates is worst than Hitler in any area... If Hitler destroyed Europe, Bill Ga-y-tes destroyed the whole world    Nazi's ordered people during the WWII to stay at their houses after 20:00 or they would be executed... It is common behavior of Nazi's and dictators to order people what to do, how to do it and when they will do it! And M$, especially after XtraPain, is acting in the same way like them BIG time and the only thing that we can do is buy and use anything NON-M$, non-Intel, et al...  

And yes anyone using XP or any other product that will come from M$ is their muppet wither he/she likes it or not! If someone wants to be really free he/she better buy a Mac ASAP...


----------



## voice- (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)
> 
> Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...
> ...


Actually, when you purchase Mac OS X or any Windwos(2000 Pro included) you agree to limit yourself to one computer. Once you break that you are breaking an agrrment and the law. The fact that XP prevents users from doing this is NOT a good point


> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Since when copying Audio CDs, movies, etc. is illegal? Since big companies like M$ got more greedy that is! Let's just say that I want to copy an Audio CD: I can use ANY tape recorder, mini disc recorder, etc. As for movies I could use a VCR, a video camera and so on... So why all that big deal with MP3 and DivX? If this is not GREED then what is? First they provided consumers with the tools to copy EVERYTHING and then they went on and told them that if they do that they are acting illegal... This is NAZI's behavior and M$ is their leader which if you ask me, Bill Gates is worst than Hitler in any area... If Hitler destroyed Europe, Bill Ga-y-tes destroyed the whole world    Nazi's ordered people during the WWII to stay at their houses after 20:00 or they would be executed... It is common behavior of Nazi's and dictators to order people what to do, how to do it and when they will do it! And M$, especially after XtraPain, is acting in the same way like them BIG time and the only thing that we can do is buy and use anything NON-M$, non-Intel, et al...  *


OK, this is REALLY stupid. Yes, you have rights to use your CDs and movies in any way you please, but not to share the copies. How this is related to Nazis I don't know. You CHOOSE to use a Microsoft product, they don't force you...yet...
with Nazis you had no option.


> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Bill Ga-y-tes *


That's just childish


----------



## googolplex (Jul 16, 2002)

azosx, please respond to my post. Don't back away from answering. You are totally ignoring the points you don't have arguements against.


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## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)
> 
> Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...
> ...



Buying one copy of OS X to install on multiple systems is not legal nor supported by Apple.  Apple has just choosen not to incorperate any type of safe guard against this with their retail version.  Apple does have a feature however that will not allow OS 9 or X install CDs that ships with their Macs to be installed on other Macs.  Damn that Apple, they are surely the devil because of this.

Your whole Nazi comparison is rather silly and obviously the ideas of a mind uneducated in world history.  I wont refute but I guarantee others would laugh at it.


----------



## RyanLang (Jul 16, 2002)

The fact that you say Apple is where it is today because of Microsoft is entirely laughable. Just because Microsoft is a big monopolistic company doesn't mean they got that way because of intelligence and fair play. In all actuality, microsoft is where it is today because of apple. Because apple did the research in the GUI after Xerox lost interest in it and most of xerox's employees went to work at Apple. Then microsoft copied their way into the OS market. And the job they have done is quite dispicable.


----------



## azosx (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *The potential for Palladium to be bad is frightening. Are we not allowed to anticipate what might happen if we give Microsoft this kind of power over our lives and actions. Wake up. Microsoft isn't just going to change their ways. Why would they create a system that would allow them to control everything on your computer all the way down to the chips so you don't use 'unlicensed' software or copy MP3s (even if they are your own)? Is it because they are genuinely interested in your well being or is it because they want to get rich and control things.
> 
> Thats an easy question to answer.
> ...



I was hardly avoiding your post.  I just have so many to reply to it's hard to keep up.  I'll make yours the last.

First let me ask you the question, other than bitching and moaning about how potentially dangerous MS is, what do you actually do to prohibit them from controlling you or millions of others?  If you're writting this on a Mac then the answer is quite simple, very little.

Second, are you part of the Palladium consortium?  Are you a Palladium engineer?  Honestly, do you know anything about Palladium other than what you've read from a MS biased source?  The answer is quite simple, no you don't.

Third, you can worry about something all you want but bitching and moaning about it in a Mac forum is hardly going to stop it from happening.  You're doing nothing more than spreading FUD.  If you honestly want to take an active stand against MS, write your local Congressman.

Fourth, Microsoft will just be serving the Pallidium technology and implementing it in their own software.  What are you going to do when your favorite software companies start incorporating it into their software as well?  Yeah, it'll be on the PC but will that make them any less guilty than Microsoft for trying to protect themselves?

Fifth and last, you and I both have no idea if Palladium will see the light of day nor exactly how it will be implemented.  Yeah, it has the potential to be terrible but so do a lot of things.  My main annoyance with the MS bitching and whining from those who do not want to be controlled is that that is as far as there involvement to stop MS goes.  It's pathetic.  It's a waste.  If you're going to waste the time, at least discuss something that actually exists and has merit, not the what-ifs of the world.


----------



## ~~NeYo~~ (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by voice- _
> *
> Actually, when you purchase Mac OS X or any Windwos(2000 Pro included) you agree to limit yourself to one computer. Once you break that you are breaking an agrrment and the law. The fact that XP prevents users from doing this is NOT a good point
> 
> ...


Took the words RIGHT from my mouth! 

NeYo


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## Boeing777 (Jul 16, 2002)

MICROSOFT TO EXIT MAC MARKET IF SALES CONTINUE TO LAG
   On the eve of Apple Computer's semiannual MacWorld event, Microsoft
dropped a bombshell on the company: Work harder to accelerate Mac OS X
sales or Microsoft will exit the Mac market forever. Many Mac
developers share this sentiment; Mac OS X has not sold well, as
reported recently in WinInfo Daily UPDATE. Currently, Apple estimates
that as few as 1 to 2 million people have switched to its most recent
OS, despite the fact that OS X has shipped for free on several million
computers. But a more telling figure from Microsoft might put things
in perspective: Sales of Microsoft's OS X-specific Office version,
Office v. X, have been just 300,000 units since the suite went on sale
last year. Microsoft had expected to sell more than 750,000 copies in
the first year. To read the complete story, visit the following URL:
http://www.wininformant.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=25871


It is ironic to read that Microsoft is lecturing Apple on speeding up its OS, whereas the entire world knows just how buggy MS products are. 

Apple should invest more on its Office suite as M$ seems to play hard now that Mac is well in its way to become the favourite home computer.

 M$ will use all its power to make sure Apple won't be a threat.


----------



## googolplex (Jul 16, 2002)

Azosx, Microsoft has talked about what palladium could do.

What they might do is besides the point. The point is what it gives them the power to do.

I don't live in the states so I can't write to a congressman. Too bad the government can't follow their own legal system and sentance a guilty criminal.

I don't know many favorite software companies on windows, but I can't see Apple implementing it unless the US government makes this kind of DRM technology mandatory. And if they did do it out of their own free will I'd say screw you and they wouldn't be my favorite anymore.

What is wrong with bring our points of view to people's attention. You seem to be 'bitching and whining' about us expressing a different view point. It isn't a waste. If I can convice one other person to share my opinion then it isn't a waste. If people didn't disscuss the what-ifs there would be big problems. Its better to anticipate a bad thing before it arrives.

What I do to help the 'anti-Microsoft' cause is not use any of their software, support alternative softwareand advocate this view-point. As I am doing now. However you seem to think it is a waste of time. Then of course you are wasting your time as well since you seem to be 'bitching and whining' more  then anyone.

You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves.


----------



## xoot (Jul 16, 2002)

> _About to be quoted by xoot _
> *You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves. *



Can I quote that?


----------



## googolplex (Jul 16, 2002)

As long as there aren't any stupid spelling mistakes in it that I'm not seeing


----------



## fryke (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *Your third senario was almost a reality.  Back in '97 when Apple's boat was about to sink, Rhapsody, which later evolved into OS X was released on Intel.  OS X was originally intended to be released on Intel with classic environment and all.
> 
> I think Apple was only trying to potition themselves in the market in case the worst case senario came true.
> ...



I know, but some of your facts are wrong. There were actually _two_ plans. The first one was called 'Star Trek' and was about porting System 7 to the Intel platform back when there was no PowerPC and Apple didn't want to go to the 88000 platform Motorola was promoting as the way out at the time. (The 88K family would have been RISC, too.)

Rhapsody was out for Intel but without any Classic environment. The plan was to have:

- Rhapsody for PowerPC with Yellow Box (Cocoa) and Blue Box (Classic)
- Rhapsody for PC Compatibles with Yellow Box (Cocoa)
- Yellow Box for PC Compatibles running Windows NT

This would have given Apple actually three platforms running 'Mac' software (it would have been OpenStep software, obviously, using the Mac interface on Rhapsody platforms and Windows interface on NT).

This plan was also referred to as 'Star Trek - NeXT Generation'.

But whether Microsoft is good, bad or evil, right now the Macintosh platform needs their support. What this actually means is that we need MS Office. Heck: Even on Linux and Windows there are no real competitors to MS Office. Every competitor needs at LEAST full MS Office support, so the Mac won't survive unless a solution can be presented. And the best (and in my view only at this time) option is MS Office v. X. The graphics and video shops won't leave the Mac just because there's no new version of MS Office (if it's ever gonna happen), but the whole Switch-Campaign just doesn't work if Office's going to vanish. Which means that the Mac will stay below the 5% market share. And even those are a lie: We're at what, 2-4%.

The danger I see lying ahead is that when the press starts saying 'Apple is doomed' again, Apple actually _will_ be doomed again. Last time Microsoft saved us. And Steve Jobs saved us. The iMac revolution saved us. Steve Jobs promised a revolution every year, and this 'plan' started in a good way.

Apple, as a computer hardware and software maker, does actually look quite well today, despite the figures posted today for the last quarter. But it's dependent on a few soft facts that can turn around quickly and let Apple fall flat on its face.

For example, Apple has been viewed as the poster child of the computer manufacturers when speaking of styled computers. Actually, the style of the computers and the OS (Mac OS X) have made it possible that Apple could survive the last two years, when technologically it fell well behind the competition. But every time Apple releases new hardware, their style is on the edge, which can mean that people will either love or hate the machines Apple is building.

If Microsoft stops supporting the Mac totally, Apple will have a very hard time. Let's hope this won't be the case.

Gosh I'm looking forward to see Steve Jobs live on QuickTime in about 13 hours. I hope Akamai does a good job relaying the video.

I hope that Steve:
 won't take too long to talk about the financial situation, as it's already clear.
 won't talk about how a 1 GHz G4 is actually better than a 2.4 GHz P4.
 won't come up with a new 'strategy' like 'digital hub' without delivering products.
 will come up with a new PowerMacintosh.
 will show Mac OS X 'Jaguar', spill out the version number, pricing and availability.
 will talk about the near and far future of the Mac platform.


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## xaqintosh (Jul 16, 2002)

If Microsoft Office is gone for mac, Apple will have to create a new Appleworks, which I hear they are already doing, that is even bett, like an iapp, and has full Office cross-compatibility.


----------



## vertigo (Jul 16, 2002)

Here's another scenario:

1. Microsoft announces discontinuation of Mac support. The media goes bonkers, casts Apple as "good as dead."

2. Apple's market share dwindles to the point they can't afford to sustain themselves, much less innovate.

3. Apple announces MacOS X for Intel.

4. Apple drops hardware completely and becomes essentially a software company.

Honestly, this scenario would not be so bad. Apple has always led the way in software innovation and ease of use. Who buys a mac because of Apple's hardware? People use macs, by and large, because of the MacOS. Assuming the above scenario, we would keep using the MacOS, we would just be running it on cheaper, faster (I use the term loosely) hardware. How many times have you heard PC users wish they could run OSX and Apple software? I suspect if Apple became a software company, they would stand a better chance against Microsoft.


----------



## Boeing777 (Jul 16, 2002)

>>You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves.<<

That is a waste of time buddy.  - If your nerves are bothering you then take some tylenol. Two pills should do the trick.

Macless for few more days b4 my Tibook baby arrives.


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## xaqintosh (Jul 16, 2002)

_*I*_ use Macs because of Hardware, not exclusively, but that is a Big reason in my book. If apple continues the Hardware, but just uses intel chips, that would be _better_


----------



## azosx (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by googolplex _
> *Azosx, Microsoft has talked about what palladium could do.
> 
> What they might do is besides the point. The point is what it gives them the power to do.
> ...



I don't care if I'm getting on your nerves.  I'm not hostile and I only have an attitude towards people who feel the need to spew out garbage.

By favorite companies I mean Adobe, Roxio, Blizzard, Apple, whoever.  If somehow you manage to use software from companies that don't produce on both platforms, more power to you.  What if Apple implemented Palladium into QuickTime Pro?  It's smaller companies like Apple that would have the most to gain from this technology.

What they might do is exactly the point you're trying to push.  What-ifs.  Unsubstantiated nonsense.  Welcome to the Neighborhood of Make Believe.

If you don't live in the States, I'm sure whatever country you live in has some sort of local government offical you can write to.     

I don't agree with this but in the United States, it costs about $4,000,000 to put one convicted criminal to death.  That is from the first trial to the end sentencing.  It can also take 7-10 years before the sentence is carried out.  That is for but one person.

Now how can you expect Microsoft, being as big as it is, to be convicted, sentenced and have it carried out over night?  They've been found guilty, they will be sentenced and punished, just give it time, that's all we can do.

You're right, it is a waste of my time as well to try and educate biased, closeminded people.  It's funny because "Think Different" seems to apply to everyone but Mac users.  You all think the same, like some sortof Borg Collective and feed off eachothers insecurities like some sortof disease.

If you could be unbias about your plight with MS, your argument would stand a lot more ground.  Unfortunately, 99% of the members here are anti-MS and are unable to discuss boths sides of the issue.  Thus, all the discussion becomes is f*ck Microsoft, making it less than intelligent and highly unproductive.


----------



## azosx (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *
> 
> I know, but some of your facts are wrong. There were actually _two_ plans. The first one was called 'Star Trek' and was about porting System 7 to the Intel platform back when there was no PowerPC and Apple didn't want to go to the 88000 platform Motorola was promoting as the way out at the time. (The 88K family would have been RISC, too.)
> ...



I certainly don't want to see Apple doomed.  I don't understand though why they have become so cocky in the face of Microsoft.  At around 3% market share, they certainly don't have much weight to swing around.

Their switch campaign for one is highly provocative.  I assume they are betting on the fact that since Microsoft has been convicted as a monopoly, they wouldn't dare pull support for Apple, for that would look like a terribly anti-competitive move.

I don't think Apple owes MS eternal gratitude for helping them out, but I certainly don't think antagonizing them is a good idea.  I don't see MS deliberately trying to harm OS X through media or other means.

Jobs is a funny man and his pissing on his partners cost him dearly the first time he was fired/resigned.

Apple is a hardware company first and foremost but over the last two years have let their hardware fall way behind the competition.  If the G5 can't deliver and they can't make up for lost MHz, I fear they will be doomed for sure.


----------



## mdnky (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *i suspect the codename Corona came from what they are drinking as they work on it and that the initial release will reflect this.
> 
> also interesting to note that recent Corona commercials always emphasize that their drinkers are not working - maybe that's where the codename came from.  *



I think you're absolutely correct...the similarities are astounding!

Maybe Micro$uC|< is going to start a brewing monolopy too!  I wouldn't put it past them.  Someone better warn Budweiser and Miller...


----------



## edX (Jul 17, 2002)

LOL


----------



## lonny (Jul 17, 2002)

> Well, your misinterpretation of how my view of Captitalism worked and how you said it was "F****D UP!" could be misconstrued just the same as well so don't bother.



you are intimidating...

I could go on forever explaining you all of your mistakes, but it would be a waste of time, as you obviously don't want to listen, but show everyone how _clever_ you are.

No, I won't bother.. you don't seem to be worth it  
I prefer constructive threads.


----------



## googolplex (Jul 17, 2002)

Azosx, I can't argue with you any more. There is no point.


----------



## hulkaros (Jul 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *
> 
> Buying one copy of OS X to install on multiple systems is not legal nor supported by Apple.  Apple has just choosen not to incorperate any type of safe guard against this with their retail version.  Apple does have a feature however that will not allow OS 9 or X install CDs that ships with their Macs to be installed on other Macs.  Damn that Apple, they are surely the devil because of this.
> ...



Ok... Look Azosx and Voice this one is for you ( I didn't post earlier because a lot of things happened this week )...

"mind uneducated in world history"? Look: While US and other countries around the globe during WWII had conflicts with Germans HERE in Greece we were under Nazi's boots for MANY years so back off and quit telling me such crap! We Greeks had and still somehow have a lot of BS coming from REALLY uneducated minds in REAL history about fakced up hi-stories!  
As for others laughing at me: laugh all you want and like but at least do yourselves a favor and go and buy a Mac and let me be a fool while M$ guys are the nicest and smartest people around...

"Apple does have a feature however that will not allow OS 9 or X install CDs that ships with their Macs to be installed on other Macs"? Come again? Then how to the hell I installed 10.1 in my powermac and imac? And then my cousin's 10.1.4 in my powermac and imac?

Anyways, back to M$: what I really wanted to say about the whole M$ Nazi stuff is that 90% of people who buy a Wintel PC they CANNOT make real choices because after all, everywhere around them is Windows this, Office that, Bill who? Gates this and Intel inside (your mind and wallet that is...) BS  

And if one wants to buy a Linux or a Mac he cannot actually do such thing because if he buy a Linux box or a Mac he will NOT have support in any way if and when he will need it... If this is democracy and free will then I am GOD  

M$ and Intel doing the right thing? In what alternate reality? They spread their seeds into people mindset and they now stand back and cut their crops BIG time!

As for buying one thing and using it for many systems is illegal: Illegal my a$$! Can you imagine if somehow what M$ (in software), RIAA (in music) et al (in general) companies, doing right now, used the same method in all their products how the world would be? Can you imagine if you went on and bought a book that you would not be able to give it to other people so that they will read it because if you would do so would be ILLEGAL? Or a t-shirt for that matter (imagine the ad: If you patch the shirt you will need to re-activate the product via the internet!) Oh, here is another one: You buy your new ten of thousands US $$$ car just to find out that in order for you to let your wife drive it you have to buy another license and NOT a driving one but a pass-code actually! Or for listening that David Bowie CD you have to buy it 5 more times because after all you family has 6 cd players (living room, parent's room, 2 kids bedrooms and of course the car). Or you buy Matrix 2 and 3 DVDs 4 times because you have 4 dvd players (iBook, living room, powermac, emac)!

Methinks that smart guy wannabies got the point and if not they are living into M$ world and not in the real one  

These mafia, Nazistic, companies like M$ can kiss my nice, lovely, hairy... chest because they DO NOT own me no matter what! Illegal copying and using of their products my a$$... If someone is acting illegal it is actually them! Them: the beaches of Babylon! 

Now, that I am thinking of it Star Wars story seems to me more like our lovely M$ et al story: Emperor actually could be Bill Gates and Darth Vader could be Intel!

Oh, and one other thing: If Apple at any future time decide to make their software and/or hardware copy-proof, active-siht, etc. I will quit buying their products just like I've done with M$, intel, et al and spread the word: Computers do SUCK! and then will go on and live as a farmer and fisher


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## Boeing777 (Jul 20, 2002)

Good lord! I could feel you getting breathless just by reading your "political" statement. 

Dude, think again and role your tongue twice before your speak up. - Apple would probably act the same way if they were in M$'s position right now. - Then, we would all be supporting Bill Gates and its OS.

One thing you should remember; this is the game and these are its rules. You play smart or you shout loud.

Right now I'm supporting Apple with all my heart and the money when I can because I believe that what they are doing is elegant, smart and amazing. (at the expection of some stupid mistakes).

After all, everyone has the freedom to think different!

Cheers


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## hulkaros (Jul 21, 2002)

...Apple was in the same position that M$ is now?

Look Boeing777 you maybe right that if Apple would be in M$ position would do the same but it is NOT! I keep hearing this supposedly argument but to those who know Apple's and M$'s history they know well that from day one M$ tried to OWN the world (one computer at any one desk with windows in it!) while Apple from day one they tried to sell us technology no holds barred!

M$ from day one kept its OS offerings open to ANY kind of copying and later on with Win3.x they actually gave away ALL their software! I remember CLEARLY that MANY companies, offices, etc. around the globe (I know for sure that because I have a LOT of friends, relatives, etc. around the world and to be more specific in US, UK, German, France and Sweden) would not buy their software because they could find it for free and no one would come at their door asking questions!

As for Apple they were always a proprietary company and if you ask me that's why they only managed to get 10%, at the most, of the computing population ;(

Proprietary up until now that is! In the past 4-5 years with Jobs back at the helm they seem to act more openly to other social/political/technological changes and so far they seem NOT to chase their customers because they use a copy of the software that he/she already owns... That's the problem with M$, RIAA and other such companies because they trace their customers for "ILLEGAL" copying of their products and when they found them, they get medieval!

One or two questions for smart M$ guys: Is it coincidence that M$ made -X- products copy-proof in the past 2-3 years? Isn't that when actually the US government started to chase them for monopoly? Also, did you notice that M$ slowed down their Service Releases in the past year? And yes, XP products are FULL of bugs! Or is a coincidence that M$ the most "ethical" company on this world said in the court that if US government would push them, they would pull of the market their windows products? Oh please!

Can you see Boeing777 why I am THAT angry about people saying this and that and the worst of all that if that...then this... could happen? Well, right now, M$ rules in the REAL world, yes sir, even GOVERNMENTS and if this is democratic, ethical, political correct, et al then I really am... GOD  

I used to write and say that get Mac and then you will get a life but after seeing all this negative posting about Apple and its supporters in general (like myself), especially after MacWorld, I now say this:

Get a Mac, support Apple, Omni (one of the most ETHICAL companies around --visit their web page at http://www.omnigroup.com/company/whatisomni/ and see what I am talking about) and in general the Mac platform, and only THEN you will get a life


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## azosx (Jul 21, 2002)

...and people say I'm a troll?


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## hulkaros (Jul 21, 2002)

You believe otherwise?  

On the other hand they say this about anyone who posts again and again irrelevant things here and there all the time, supporting M$, intel, et al, so don't worry!


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## caramelApple (Jul 22, 2002)

Okay... everyone take a deeeep breath!


Okay Microsoft sucks Apple is the best... thats all there is to it.. simple. Dont fight over something silly! 

Much Love,

The Mac Geekette


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## FrgMstr (Jul 23, 2002)

I thought everyone knew this, but it seems you all must have forgoten, when M$ sees a threat they pounce on it like a starving Great White does to a seal. 

That is exactly what Apple is to M$ ( the seal ). Apple will never be able to outwit  M$ they dont have the resources, cunning and business reach that M$ does.

M$ helping Apple was mearly a symbol to make M$ look less anti competitive by appearing to support an alternative platform, M$ chose Apple for this role because they knew Apple could never threaten it monopoly in its most important market X86!!

When Apple is no longer usefull to M$ they will destroy thgem like they have done to every other competitor they have seen fit to do it to in the past.

I admire them for there ability to do it, money and knowledge is absolute power in corporate america unfortunately for Apple.


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