# AppleCare Cares Nothing For Downtime



## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2004)

Well my 20" Cinema display has developed a vertical blue line that wont' go away.   I have Applecare on the system, so I called them.   Ran lots of tests, but alas, I didn't have another Mac to connect my display to for testing, so they advised taking CPU & display to my local CompUSA (an understaffed, distinctly unfriendly establishment who I wouldn't trust to service a toaster).

So today I tried to give them more evidence; I hoofed it all the way to my Dad's office and connected the display to a Mac there.  Sure enough, same blue line.   I called back today and told them this. 

So what's their plan for fixing it?   What'd I pay for Applecare for?

In 2 days they're sending me an EMPTY BOX.   I have to pack up my display and ship it to them, and my G5 will sit, totally unusable, until they get around to fixing the display and sending it back to me in a week or so.   

I guess the only difference between this and NOT having Applecare is that I don't have to pay for the repairs.  HELLO?!?  INSTANT REPLACEMENT??  LOANER DISPLAY??  SOMETHING SO I'M NOT DEAD IN THE WATER?  

Very, very disappointing.


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## Randman (Mar 28, 2004)

Is there an Apple shop near you? Easier than mailing. And how would you honestly expect an instant replacement/loaner display program to work? It always sucks when something has to go into the shop, but Applecare is insurance not instant gratification. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know of no computer company having a policy like that. Maybe a loaner if you're screen needs a certain  amount of time for repairs. 

http://www.info.apple.com/support/applecare_products/service/display_service.html


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## Juxel (Mar 28, 2004)

Randman said:
			
		

> Is there an Apple shop near you? Easier than mailing. And how would you honestly expect an instant replacement/loaner display program to work?



Tons of companies already do exactly this.  You give them your credit card number, they next day you a replacement part and you have 30 days to return the defective one before your credit card will be billed.  It's very easy and it keeps customer's happy.


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## btoth (Mar 28, 2004)

Well, AppleCare did replace my laptop screen for the "white spots" problem for free... which I would expect for a defect like that anyway.  I took it 45 min away to the Apple store (since I don't trust my local CompUSA either) for them to send it in so I wouldn't have to wait for AppleCare to send the shipping box (this is my work computer).  The people at the Apple Store weren't over friendly either and I was there for an hours while they double checked everything for themselves and filled out the paper work very slowly.  To be fair, I was impressed by the overnight shipping back to me, it was only gone for three days, but the screen I got back still has dead pixels and it has dark spots instead of white spots.  Luckily I got it back Monday morning and wasn't too inconvenienced.

A couple weeks ago I called Apple Care because of the issue with my USB ports not putting out enough power.  They guy on the line was ZERO help (level 1 tech support I guess), he was soooo slooooow and just said they don't know about the situation.  Then he tried to sell me extended AppleCare three times during our conversation.  I just got mad and told him that "it hasn't done anything for me so far, why would I pay $400 for more of it!?".

Now, I don't know of any other computer manufacture that is much better, but then again, my Apple laptop is the first of many computers that I've ever needed to call tech support 3 times for.  I've always liked Apple's style, but maybe they need to hire some more engineers or something.


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2004)

> . Maybe I'm wrong, but I know of no computer company having a policy like that.



When my HP 3330 broke down, they did exactly that - sent me a new 3330 and I sent the broken one back in the same box.  Same with my Kyocera 7135 phone.   

Sigh.


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## mi5moav (Mar 28, 2004)

With my Dell service agreement I did receive a loaner howerver, they also lost my notebook in the process and I didn't realize that they only insure it for 1/3 the cost since it was 3 years old and then I had to pay for shipping of the notebook back they loaned me. So, I am basicaly down about 2500 bucks, thanks Dell. Apple's service is a bit slow getting equipment back especially on the weekends. However, using airborne is awesome since I am in TN and I usually get my box from them the same day to pick up the item and they always wait outside for upto 15 minutes so I can Pack my laptops to go. When I had my business we had compaqs and their service stunk. Of course I only paid for the cheap home repair and not the in house service(which is a total joke with any pc company)


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## brianleahy (Mar 28, 2004)

Well sure enough; the applecare terms document specifically says that 'loaners' are not covered.   So I won't allege that they lied to me.

They're truthful enough, but I will say here and now that AppleCare is an inferior extended service plan compared to those offered for products purchased at  OfficeMax (the HP 3330 I mentioned) or Verizon (the phone I mentioned).

And Applecare ain't cheap, either.


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## Viro (Mar 29, 2004)

So... why bother with Apple care?


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2004)

> So... why bother with Apple care?



For some users, the included phone tech support might be worth the cost.   Personally though, I have used Macs since 1985, and needed Apple phone support less than a dozen times.


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## Viro (Mar 29, 2004)

The reason I'm asking is because I've got a Powerbook that's almost a year old. I've never really had any problems with it, so I was just wondering why people got Apple care.


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## bobw (Mar 29, 2004)

As small a market share Apple has, they still have millions of machines out there. They never did include a loaner, or instant repair in their warranties, but they do have a good service reputation. 

I've used the warranty three times. Twice on my desktop, speaker port went bad a few months after I bought my G4, and hard drive went bad about 2 years after I bought it. Both times Apple sent someone to my house, to replace the logic board and hard drive.

Third time it was for my G4 PowerBook, which I bought refurbed at the Apple store. They had me send that in and I had it back in 4 days.

Just like almost anything else you buy. Car, TV, etc. Go to the dealer and ask for instant repair or replacement. Most times they'll look at you wondering what planet you're from


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## MacMuppet (Mar 29, 2004)

btoth said:
			
		

> ....maybe they need to hire some more engineers or something.



They can hire me! In fact, even though its unlikely to pay even close to what I'm earning now (not much but retail wages are pitiful in the UK) I might apply when they get ready to launch the Apple store in Regent's Street. I wonder if its like working for Mambo or those clothes stores, where you are required by contract to spend 20% of your wages in the store - guess not as you can't wear a G5. Maybe some nice discounts though? 
Are Apple store monkeys technical or just nicely-t-shirted salesmen?


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## jhawk28 (Mar 29, 2004)

AppleCare extends my warranty for another 2 years. It keeps the price of the Mac down so that those people that could care less, can get it for less. If it is so important that you need a monitor, go buy a cheap one and use it as back-up. How much is your time worth?

Joshua


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## MacMuppet (Mar 29, 2004)

Rent a monitor! Can't be more than a dollar or two a day, and they'll deliver and collect!


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## Go3iverson (Mar 29, 2004)

It really depends on the part, I think.  A drive died in my G4 running Panther Server, so they took a credit card to secure and simply shipped me the new drive and then I have two weeks to mail back the defective drive.  The difference is, drives are cheaper than HD 20" LCD's and we were able to tell that the drive was 100% dead.  Also, they don't usually repair drives, while they have parts they can use to repair a 20" LCD.


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2004)

> Rent a monitor! Can't be more than a dollar or two a day, and they'll deliver and collect!



It'd have to be an Apple LCD or a DVI display; my G5's video card has no VGA port.


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## btoneill (Mar 29, 2004)

Someone asked "why buy AppleCare?" Well, piece of mind for one, but you have to weigh the cost/risk. I spent $1500 on my wifes iMac and paid $170 for AppleCare. So, I paid approx 10% of the cost to replace it if it dies in 3 years. To me that was a no brainer. Now, on my 12" iBook I paid $1099 for, I didn't buy AppleCare. Why? At $250 it's 25% of the price of my iBook. 25% is alot to pay for an extra 2 years.

As to quality/speed of service, if I can get a company to actually cover their products I'm happy.

Brian


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2004)

> Well, piece of mind for one



Sorry, too funny.  It's "peace" of mind.


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## Go3iverson (Mar 29, 2004)

On the portable front, consider how much it would cost to replace your HD once, then the cost of AppleCare isn't quite as intimidating.


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2004)

I guess that, when I saw that AppleCare boasted "on-site service" (which it does) that there would be an emphasis on minimizing down-time.

Nope.  The emphasis seems to be on minimizing any outright replacements of components, and downtime is the owner's problem.


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## cybergoober (Mar 29, 2004)

brianleahy said:
			
		

> It'd have to be an Apple LCD or a DVI display; my G5's video card has no VGA port.



No, but it should have come with a DVI to VGA adaptor


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## Go3iverson (Mar 29, 2004)

Apple tends to only do onsite repair when they're 99.9% sure that the solution they've come up with will get you up and running after the repair.  When they're unsure after troubleshooting over the phone, they prefer to bring it to an authorized repair center.

For example, dead hard drive, possibly in a G4, but they're not 100% sure.  They send the drive and find out that it wasn't the drive, its the motherboard.  Ok, so now, not only are you waiting double the time for new parts and the install of the parts, but they just wasted money on that drive and on getting a tech out there.


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## jobsen_ski (Mar 29, 2004)

MacMuppet said:
			
		

> They can hire me! In fact, even though its unlikely to pay even close to what I'm earning now (not much but retail wages are pitiful in the UK) I might apply when they get ready to launch the Apple store in Regent's Street. I wonder if its like working for Mambo or those clothes stores, where you are required by contract to spend 20% of your wages in the store - guess not as you can't wear a G5. Maybe some nice discounts though?
> Are Apple store monkeys technical or just nicely-t-shirted salesmen?



I dont know but I realy hope they are just nicely-t-shirted salesmen becasue I realy want a job there. I was also thinking of asking at my local PC world (UK) I was thinking that I could be there mac "expert" they def dont show them off enough t my local show I wen in the other day All the mac were turned off there was this gut looking at them, no sales person aproached so i turned on the 17" iMac and showed him the basic features, there was also an iBook whic had gone into permanant sleep mode I unpluged it and doid a force restart - LOL and tumed the rest of the iMacs on and the ipod - and the emac  no one even bated an eye lid. Doubt they knew how to turn them on. LOL


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## brianleahy (Mar 29, 2004)

> it should have come with a DVI to VGA adaptor



I'll have to look through the junk I got with the G5 and see if I do have such an adapter (I don't recall there being one, but perhaps).   If so, I actually *DO* have a cheesy old VGA monitor I could use temporarily.  Better than nothing I guess....


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## pjeski (Mar 29, 2004)

About six years ago I bought a high end NEC 17" monitor (back when that was something!) from a discount mail order house. The unit came in, it had one dead phosphor dot, less than a pixel and barely noticeable. I called NEC, and they shipped me a new monitor and a prepaid label to return the "defective" one. And I didn't pay any extra for support.




			
				Randman said:
			
		

> Is there an Apple shop near you? Easier than mailing. And how would you honestly expect an instant replacement/loaner display program to work? It always sucks when something has to go into the shop, but Applecare is insurance not instant gratification. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know of no computer company having a policy like that. Maybe a loaner if you're screen needs a certain  amount of time for repairs.
> 
> http://www.info.apple.com/support/applecare_products/service/display_service.html


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## Go3iverson (Mar 29, 2004)

I think the difference here is time of ownership.  I was under the impression that the thread originator had his system for some time now?  By some time, I mean it didn't have the blue line right out of the box, on delivery day, like your monitor.  If that was the case, I'm sure Apple would have taken the monitor back because, well, you're well within your return policy time, that and no one wants a machine that needs repairs right out of the box.


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## pjeski (Mar 29, 2004)

If you pay 10% of the cost of the machine for additional warranty and support, then it shouldn't matter how long he owned it. It is an insurance policy.

Also, IMHO, Apple Care or any other extra cost warranty is wasted money. If you buy a Mac, is the dropout rate after warranty anywhere near 10%? If not, why would you insure the machine for such a high cost? Unless the machine is vital to the operation of your business (or your life), then you are better off financially to self insure against the risk. An in the case of apple care, in this story, if the machine was vital, the coverage provided was still not adequate for the cost.


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## pjeski (Mar 29, 2004)

The Dell tech (some service contractor) that replaced my defective floppy drive some years ago came equipped to replace the motherboard, power supply, or any other plausible failed component. And that was also a no extra cost plan.

Guys, stop making exuses for Apple. I love my Mac, I think it is superior to any PC i've owned. But the warranty service, with or without apple care, sucks.





			
				Go3iverson said:
			
		

> Apple tends to only do onsite repair when they're 99.9% sure that the solution they've come up with will get you up and running after the repair.  When they're unsure after troubleshooting over the phone, they prefer to bring it to an authorized repair center.
> 
> For example, dead hard drive, possibly in a G4, but they're not 100% sure.  They send the drive and find out that it wasn't the drive, its the motherboard.  Ok, so now, not only are you waiting double the time for new parts and the install of the parts, but they just wasted money on that drive and on getting a tech out there.


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## Go3iverson (Mar 29, 2004)

I'd hardly say it "sucks".

The drive in my G4 server was a 5400RPM 40GB drive, which has now been replaced with an 80GB 7200RPM drive at zero cost to me.  

Whenever I've needed a repair, it's always been done on site within 24 hours, besides for a phantom laptop issue, which I mailed in and received back in just about a week.


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## drustar (Mar 29, 2004)

Viro said:
			
		

> The reason I'm asking is because I've got a Powerbook that's almost a year old. I've never really had any problems with it, so I was just wondering why people got Apple care.



Well if something were to happen in 2 or the 3rd year you own this PowerBook, it'd be nice to have the labors be comped for and replace the so-called parts that are broken - if Apple deems it that it's covered by the warranty.

It's a sound investment if you ask me - if you're one of those "rugged" Mac users.


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## tysonbarber (Mar 29, 2004)

I didn't buy the exdended apple care plan too much for my PowerBook G4, almost 300 bucks. in the first year the FireWire port, and hard drive went out. all covered and both times the computer was back to me within 5 days. Just a week ago I put out 280 bucks to send it in outside the 1 year plan, they replaced the logic board, CD-w/DVD drive, heat sink, av power module, and a secondary fan.  all for just 229 for repair and shipping, plus 49 to open the account. all this was still cheaper than the 300 bucks for the apple care, if nothing would have gone wrong I would be out nothing, and the one time fee for repair was cheaper than a new computer.


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## Ripcord (Mar 29, 2004)

What if it breaks 6 months from now?


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## Randman (Mar 30, 2004)

Again, I ask if avoiding the mail and trying do it in person is doable. Could save time and trouble.


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## applewhore (Mar 30, 2004)

Viro said:
			
		

> The reason I'm asking is because I've got a Powerbook that's almost a year old. I've never really had any problems with it, so I was just wondering why people got Apple care.


i just changed my PB for a new 1.33 GHz...  I'm trying to sell my old one (11 months old) through my local Apple dealer...

When I said I didn't have AppleCare the price he offered me dropped by much more than the cost of the insurance...  so I got it.

I'm in the middle of completing transfers across from old to new and the old one's screen has just decided to die!  Blurry, fuzzy colours - nothing like the screen I've loved for 11 months!

Anyway, I never got AppleCare before either, but I think on this occasion I'm going to be doubly glad I have!

It might be worth not ruling out...


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## brianleahy (Mar 30, 2004)

For the record, I got the Display and G5 late last October - so just about exactly six months later the line showed up.

They do mean to fix it for free, no quarrel there.   My disappointment is that they expect me to do entirely without for several days.   This stands in sharp and unfavorable contrast to extended warranties I have purchased for other computer hardware from other vendors.  I did not expect Apple to be behind the curve on this score, but they are.   In addition to the aformentioned printer and cell phone, here's another example: a few years ago I bought my wife a wintel laptop (she needed windows, alas, for her work) and extented warranty at Circuit City.   The laptop has had to go in 2 or 3 times, and CC has have always provided a loaner.   It is my opinion that without real-time replacement or loaner service, AppleCare cannot be considered the premium service plan that Apple portrays it to be.

As for taking it to a store:  I live on the west side of Cleveland, OH.   Supposedly there's an actual Apple store recently opened up on the east side (about 90 minutes away) and there's another in Columbus (3+ hours south).  Then there's CompUSA, only 5 minutes away, but I have no confidence in that place at all -- despite being "Apple-authorized" the staff's antipathy to Mac questions is severe.

Even so, I'd gladly make the trek to any of these places *IF* on the same trip I'd be walking out with a replacement display in hand.  But if I'm going to have to go home empty handed anyway, it's easier to just mail it in & have it mailed back fixed.


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## Ripcord (Mar 30, 2004)

If you buy a premium-price product, you expect premium-quality service, end of story.  This is what you'd expect from BMW and Lexus, and the argument for the very high prices is supposedly the same - it's a "luxery" computer, right?


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## drustar (Mar 30, 2004)

Randman said:
			
		

> Again, I ask if avoiding the mail and trying do it in person is doable. Could save time and trouble.



Are there any local mac repair shops? Make sure that they're authorized repair centers.


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## applewhore (Mar 30, 2004)

does no-one actually read what's been written previously prior to posting their own little pearls of information?!


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## brianleahy (Apr 21, 2004)

> it should have come with a DVI to VGA adaptor



...and so it did.  I now have an old Dell VGA monitor connected to my G5, while I (finally, and reluctantly) send in my Apple 20" display for repairs.  At least I'm not dead in the water (no thanks to Apple) though it's quite a come-down from the flat-screen.

Hurry Apple, fix my baby & send it back...


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## brianleahy (Apr 22, 2004)

_Note to moderators: if my post seems harsh, I hope you'll take a hard look first at the one I am responding to._

A lot of us here have done, either professionally or 'gratis', a ton of support.  Most of us know first hand that most users' problems are of their own making and that you can't trust what they say.  In short, there are very few people here who could conceivably be ''shown the light' by your jeremiad?

And I am amazed you actually brought up Procare.  I don't know about you, but that option didn't pop up at all when I was ordering my Mac - unlike Applecare.   I only heard of it a week or two after my problem started, and if it existed at all before that (and if it exists now apart from the few dozen Apple stores in the world) it was a well-kept secret; hardly a valid rebuttal to this issue.

Procare is, in fact, support for MY position: Apple has, it seems, finally realized what many of their competitors know already; there is no logistical, economic or moral reason NOT to provide premium-service-plan customers with real-time replacements.   It can be done, it does not destroy a company's cash flow, it does not encourage frivolous service calls (such plans always include a clause that, if there is no problem with the original, the user is billed for the cost of the new unit.)   

The only way Apple's - or any home tech company's - service is going to be graded or evaluated - is in comparison to their competitors.  And by that yardstick, Applecare DOES suck in some ways.  This is not opinion, but empirical, verifyiable fact.


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## brianleahy (Apr 22, 2004)

While you're doing your exhaustive research, try reading **THIS THREAD**.  Specifically, posts 3, 5, 25, 28, and 38.

You're just plain, vanilla, no frills, no bells or whistles, wrong.  Companies replace displays, computers, printers etc. this way ALL THE TIME.  My Officemax extended service plan replaced my broken HP Fax/copier by sending me a new one BEFORE they ever laid hands on the broken one.  Officemax's service IS superior to Applecare.

Verizon replaced my $500 Kyocera 7135 this way as well, when it died.  Verizon's service is superior to Applecare.

Circuit City handed my wife a loaner laptop when she brought hers in, before they'd even *looked* at it.   CC's service is superior to Applecare.

There is absolutely, positively nothing special about stand-alone flat screen displays that makes them somehow less eligible for realtime replacement than these other items.   The specific item is, in any event, irrelevant - the service policy is.   And Apple's is just not as customer friendly as these other businesses.  Period.

And as far as I am concerned, you lost most of your credibility right off the bat with your attacking users' claims that their computers are important to them.  How do you know that people with porn on their macs don't also use them (as I do) to pay all their bills electronically?   Or to stay in contact with relatives in other countries?   You, sir, are in no position to judge.   It's neither your business nor Apple's what the machines are used for; if their attitude - or yours - is that it's not important that the equipment (or failing that, the service) be reliable - for whatever purpose a user may need - then you may as well stop there; any company managed with that attitude is doomed, as is any argument mounted from that starting point.


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## GroundZeroX (Apr 22, 2004)

I'm done with this. I said before that unless you get it from a retail store with their warranty. I don't feel like arguing with you. If you were smart, you'd actually do some research before going online and complaining. Blah blah blah. At this point from the way your talking, your either extremely young or extremely ignorant. I showed you comparisons, yet you want to talk about Circuit City and Office Max. Yay, I'm happy for you, OfficeMax replaced your printer! Yay! 


The entire purpose of your original post was Apple not providing a solution for people that can't have down time. They do, but you didn't bother to seek a solution. 

I don't see how I lose credibility. You beat the whole thing about Apple being the BMW of computers. I explained how all that works. Maybe someone who makes that kind of comment should own a BMW or at least know someone who owns a new BMW. Then you continued to complain about how Apple's solutions sucked in comparison to other vendors. I showed you how it was on par with Dell and Gateway, but you were happy that OfficeMax just did an exchange for you. The OfficeMax deal probably happened within the first 30 days. I have personally had bad expierence with in store warranties, like CompUSA, and Fry's electronic. A friend of mine bought monitor from there, and they wanted to send it in for repair with no loaner. Why? Because the warranty gets it repaired. But no, lets avoid all the facts from someone who actually knows what they are talking about because they have worked in a service place, or someone who knew about Pro options, or someone who knows about the actual comparisons being made, or someone that proved it was on par. Because OfficeMax exchanged your messed up printer, probably within the 30 days. Yay for Office Max.


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## brianleahy (Apr 22, 2004)

Well, so glad you're done with me.  I can't tell you what a relief it is.

Every one of the items I listed had an optional extended service agreement, and real-time replacements WERE a provision of those agreements, right there in black & white.  I'd be happy to even post tiff's of each hardcopy agreement, if you want.

Let us be perfectly clear: guarantees for equipment of comparable sophistication and price (to a Mac display) *can* be purchased, in which a replacement is SHIPPED TO YOUR HOUSE the same day you make the phone call for service.  *THIS* is superior service, and Apple does not offer this at ANY price.  No, NOT EVEN Procare:



> For ProCare services, you must redeem Services for Covered Products at the Apple Retail Store where the ProCare services package was purchased....
> 
> ....You must pick up Covered Products within sixty (60) days after being notified by Apple that they are available.



Even if they fixed it the next day, you'd still have to drive out there, twice.

I also have to say you have a LOT of nerve accusing me of being "immature".  Granted, I've told you when I think you're wrong, and that I think your credibility has suffered, but if you're going to use expressions like "blah blah" and "yay for..."  let alone accuse me of "whining," you're going to slide quickly into self-parody.

I have personally coordinated the purchase of at least 20 Macintosh systems and tens of thousands of dollars in software, printers, monitors etc. over the last two decades.  Yet, because you spent time doing actual work on Macs, you think you have a better perspective on what constitutes good service?  

How does that follow?  The techs have no control over replacement or return policy; I no more blame them for this than I'd blame an airline pilot for lost baggage.   When did I dump on the techs?  When did I say they were lazy or slow?  Never!

What I did, and do, say is this:  For the cost of Applecare, and with NO additional burden on their tech staff, Apple could and should ship replacement units and allow users to ship back the damaged unit in the same package.  This shortcoming is at the CORPORATE and/or POLICY level, NOT the tech-staff level.

And no, it is in no way pertinent that Officemax is a retailer and Apple a manufacturer; the two companies ARE competitors in the extended-warranty business, and Officemax's product is simply better.


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## pwharff (Apr 22, 2004)

I got a loaner when my Canon ZR10 went bad.  It's too bad that after a year from the time they fixed it, it broke again and was out of warranty!  Dang.  Still love Canon though!


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## pwharff (Apr 22, 2004)

MacMuppet said:
			
		

> Rent a monitor! Can't be more than a dollar or two a day, and they'll deliver and collect!



Forget renting, just buy a used CRT for 20 bucks!  Dang cheap.


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## Giaguara (May 2, 2004)

Brian, do you have an update to the story? Do you have the monitor back already?
I think it would be a great thing to have an update to this..


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## brianleahy (May 2, 2004)

Yes, the 20" is back on my desk, and looking better than ever.   I shipped it out on a Wednesday evening, and had it back the following Wednesday.

Watching the status on Apple's site, the day it arrived it went into the status 'Hold, awaiting part".  There it stayed until Tuesday noon-ish.  After the part arrived, the repair was completed and the unit shipped within a couple of hours.

When I opened it here, the screen was covered with a sticky protective plastic sheet.  This surprised me a little - was the entire LCD panel replaced?  Perhaps.  

It even occurred to me that it could be a whole new display, but no, the serial number is the same.  The receipt gave the replacement part number as 707-1012-R 'APPLE,DSPL,LCD,FALCON,20"'.

A week with the cheezy Dell monitor has made me appreciate the 20" all the more.  Thanks just the same to cybergoober for reminding me that the G5 included a VGA adapter.


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## GroundZeroX (May 3, 2004)

I think it's ironic how my post about seeing Apple do an exchange of a Powerbook on Applecare when the display messed up. 

Oh well. I guess people don't like the truth. 

We still have the high class OfficeMax warranty. :-D


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