# Apple + Tab = Cool



## twister (May 2, 2002)

Apple + Tab = Next open app!

This is new to me!

Twister


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## phatsharpie (May 2, 2002)

And "Apple" + "`" = next window in active application!

Also very cool!


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## wdw_ (May 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *Apple + Tab = Next open app!
> 
> This is new to me!
> ...



That is probably my most used keystroke. 
Either that or "apple-~" in IE.


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## twister (May 2, 2002)

now i have to hit apple + everykey to see what happens!!


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## Red Phoenix (May 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by phatsharpie _
> *And "Apple" + "`" = next window in active application!*



And don't forget apple-shift-` (that is, apple-~) to rotate through the windows in the opposite direction.


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## symphonix (May 2, 2002)

Also, while Apple-tabbing between apps, and still holding the apple key, you can:

Q - to quit the highlighted app.

H - to hide the highlighted app.

Those are my most used shortcuts.


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## wdw_ (May 2, 2002)

Once you push apple-tab the first time, you can keep holding the apple key and press shift to go the other direction.


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## Dradts (May 3, 2002)

its not possible to hit apple + "~" on german keyboards, because the "~" tilde is a special key on the german keyboard ( we have to press alt+n if i remember it right... im currently on a pc..)

apple shouldnt forget thinks like that...


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## Alexandert (May 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dradts _
> *its not possible to hit apple + "~" on german keyboards, because the "~" tilde is a special key on the german keyboard ( we have to press alt+n if i remember it right... im currently on a pc..)
> 
> apple shouldnt forget thinks like that... *



Um was zu erreichen???     


Habe hier das MacWelt Extra. da sind alle Tastenkürzel drauf, die man braucht!!!


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## tismey (May 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by phatsharpie _
> *And "Apple" + "`" = next window in active application!
> 
> Also very cool! *



Actually, I really wish they'd standardise this. It's different in some apps (is apple+arrow keys in Terminal, for example)


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## Red Phoenix (May 3, 2002)

Yeah, but in the Terminal that, command-1,2,... switch windows, _and_ command-`. In Terminal's case, it's more like a ton of commands do the same thing but the default still works. I mainly wish command-` worked in _all_ apps, but it'd have to be specially added to the non-Cocoa apps.


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## nkuvu (May 3, 2002)

There should be a full list of Finder keyboard  commands somewhere.

If there is one of these already, could someone point the way to it?


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## kerwin (May 3, 2002)

Welcome to Windows95


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## tismey (May 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Red Phoenix _
> *Yeah, but in the Terminal that, command-1,2,... switch windows, and command-`. In Terminal's case, it's more like a ton of commands do the same thing but the default still works. I mainly wish command-` worked in all apps, but it'd have to be specially added to the non-Cocoa apps. *



Actually, I just remembered that Cmd+` is 'Go to folder' in the Finder. How do you cycle active windows in the Finder? And how did Apple let this get so wrong?


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## Red Phoenix (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tismey _
> *
> 
> Actually, I just remembered that Cmd+` is 'Go to folder' in the Finder. How do you cycle active windows in the Finder? And how did Apple let this get so wrong? *



The best that I've seen is a workaround from this thread (a good thing to try, and Youpi Key is a great thing to have anyway). I think this got away from Apple because they didn't add the command-` standard until 10.1, and that was "Go to folder...." since possibly even the Public Beta. They definitely need to change it though, because if Apple can't even hold to their own standards no one can be expected to.


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## elmimmo (May 5, 2002)

And Apple + shift = previous open App.

However, this is MUCH BETTER done in Windows, where Alt + Tab is previous ACTIVE app, so you hit it once you change to another app, you hit THE SAME KEY COMBO again and you are back on the first app. In Mac OS X, if the Apps where not opened just one after the other you have to hit tab/shift several times to change between one and the other, which is quite uncomfortable, since you have to look at the Dock to see how many times that is.


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## WaterLung (May 6, 2002)

In OS X, I think it works better than in Windows.  If you use Apple-Tab to switch to another app, then you can hit Apple-Shift to go back to the original App.  But I guess it comes down to personal preference.


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## elmimmo (May 6, 2002)

> you can hit Apple-Shift to go back to the original App



Er... not exactly. That's what Alt + Tab does in Windows. In X Apple+Shift takes you to the open app that is at the left side in the Dock of the one you are in, which is not necessarily the previous active one. I forgot to mention too that Shift does not work unless you have first used Apple + Tab.

This way Apple + Tab will lead you to the next open app (not the last active as in windows), and 'Apple + Tab' + Shift + Shift will lead you to the previous open app (while in Windows just type Alt + Tab again and you are back there). That is that "simple" IF both open apps are one besides the other in the Dock, but hey "in Mac OS X you do not need to close applications", so prepare to click a crazy combo of alts and shifts 20 times if that is the icon span in the Dock between the apps you want to keep swapping. And do that without forcing your sight to derive from the workspace towards  the Dock...

So in your opinion 'Apple + Tab' + Shift +Shift, and having to click either Shift or Tab a variable ammount of times each time to go back and forth, while having to look at the Dock of course, is better than ONE single Alt + Tab to change between two apps repeatedly?

I love many many things of Mac OS X better than Windows similarities, but let's give credit where it is due. Alt + Tab is in Windows since Windows 3 so it is quite normal that they have it more polished than Mac OS. I do not think this has nothing to do with subjectiveness. Windows is simply more efficient with its way of dealing with this.

PS: One could argue that if I plan on working on two specific apps intermitently I could just move one in the Dock to be next to the other, but then the system is telling me what to do instead of the opposite, forcing me to take extra steps which I wouldn't normally do, replacing my 'personal tastes' (I might like it the place they are already), and the Dock will think that by moving a certain open app's icon I am telling it too to make that icon stay in the Dock when i close the app, so yet another unwanted sideeffect.


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## Bluefusion (May 6, 2002)

...and I had never heard of Apple-` before (Apple-Tilde)... that is a LIFESAVER! Wow! It works in OmniWeb as well, which is good. I can't believe I've been a Mac user for nearly 9 years and I didn't know that! 

Another interesting thing, if you guys didn't know this: on any LCD display (including the LCD iMac and I believe including ones that are not made by Apple but are running in OS X) you can push Cmd-F14 and Cmd-F15 (Pro Keyboard) to lower and raise the brightness... did anyone already know that?


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## ::Lp:: (May 6, 2002)

...

and of course there's the old Apple-ctrl-tab to move to the next field (in IE or Quark Xpress' Printmonitor/menu of tools)...


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## Fahrvergnuugen (May 6, 2002)

There are a lot of cool keyboard shortcuts in OSX but in general, they need to be improved on.

1) Apple definitly needs to copy the M$ way with command-tab. If you're switching between two aps that you're working in and you have 10 apps running, it's faster to use the mouse than it is to command-tab 5 times [if you have 10 apps open and they are as far apart from each other on the dock as possible, you have to hit tab 5 times to switch between them]

2) full keyboard access is a start...but it doesn't work with every application. I want to be able to tab between ALL buttons and hit enter on the one I select.

3) typing the filename works in some places but not in others. typing "macin" on the desktop will select "Macintosh HD" but it won't work in the open file dialog box in some applications such as BBedit. This feature seems to finally be working in drop down menus though [ex: in omniweb type "ny" to select NY on a drop down of the states]. I think omniweb uses the OSX widgets unlike IE which uses its own archaic widgets.


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## theed (May 7, 2002)

Apple-tab can be held in to repeat, Apple-shift does not repeat.  I see the simplified logic of Apple-tab, but alt-tab is the faster one in most cases.  The down side for Apple is that alt-tab would require its own visual window indicating order of selection, virtually duplicating the dock.

Hey, you know what?  alt tab isn't used yet ... it could be.  alt being option really, we could option tab in order of most recent app.  Or even Apple-option-tab.

The problem with making these things OS level is that you take away key commands from apps.  I think virtually all OS level commands should be double modifier based.  Like Mail.app needing to use shift-apple-h to view headers because apple-h is already taken.


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## theed (May 7, 2002)

Better yet, have an option for the dock to order itself based on most recently frontmost.  Oh I like that idea.  ... of course, it's my idea, it stands to reason that I'd like it.


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## Fahrvergnuugen (May 7, 2002)

> The down side for Apple is that alt-tab would require its own visual window indicating order of selection, virtually duplicating the dock.



then why duplicate something that already exists? It would work just like it does now...the icon for the ap that you are currently on when you command-tab is shaded. This would work fine for the alt-tab method used in windows.


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## theed (May 7, 2002)

the dock indicates the order in which selection WILL occur, although not particularly well.  It would work well if the dock were ordered consecutively based on most recently frontmost.  ;-)


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## elmimmo (May 7, 2002)

Here goes another one...

On new keyboards (without on/off button) ctrl + eject will bring the shut dows dialog both in 9 and X. It does no start the computer unfortunately.


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## elmimmo (May 7, 2002)

> The down side for Apple is that alt-tab would require its own visual window indicating order of selection, virtually duplicating the dock.



If Apple + Tab did exactly the same thing as in Windows, it would not be the same, it would be better, since the visual window indicating order of selection that appears on windows is, of course, of variable order, and its icon-only view sometimes confuses about which windows you are activating if you press tab more than once (if several icons are the same). The Dock is static, so you always know what application you are highlighting, and then it would be 1 click without looking , more clicks looking at the dock which I think is not that bad since it will not be its most use.

However note that in Windows, the behavious is different too, depending on the applications opened: IE and Office documents will display windows at application level, so you change between open browser windows with Alt-Tab (change app), as if you had in fact 2 instances of IE opened, but in Photoshop open docs are displayed at document level (all inside 1 single app) so to change between them you use the almost-universal 'change doc' shortcut ctrl+tab (some apps do not answer to this). Since at the end, even Microsoft does not agree on what is application level and what is document level it ends up turning quite caothic, although usually ctrl-tab will be needed when different windows are enclosed inside a bigger windows as in Photoshop (this does not happen in Mac OS, each element is a top level windows), so it holds a bit.

In Mac OS X would be much more clear than Windows if ctrl-tab or whatever if it was also universal, since Documents never act as Appliaction instances in the Dock (1 app = only 1 icon = different open docs in it). But since each app uses its own 'doc change' shortcut its intuitiveness falls down to zero (IE for instance uses ctrl+~ to change docs, which btw IS INACCESIBLE IN MY SPANISH KEYBOARD - HELLO APPLE?)

I guess both OSs would have place to polish this shortcuts


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