# I hate PageMaker!!!!!



## MDLarson (Oct 31, 2003)

That's all I can say right now


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## BitWit (Oct 31, 2003)

pagemaker has one redeemig quality: data merge.

whats happening?


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## MDLarson (Oct 31, 2003)

To be honest, I don't know what data merge does.  The only reason we use PageMaker is because we have it, and we have many PageMaker publications.  It's a "that's what we've always used" sort of thing.

Anyway, here's the latest PageWrecker scenario:
A month or so ago, I created a ~40 MB publication (a user manual).  The program is PageMaker 7.0.1.  I never embed the images, I always link them.  This particular file includes around 65 linked Photoshop EPS files (using clipping paths), Illustrator EPS files and Adobe Table EPS files.  I have all of these linked files in the same folder as my PageMaker file because that saves me some grief when moving publications around hard drives.  Otherwise, PageMaker asks me to locate every linked file next time I open it.

Here's my problem; I created the whole thing on my local computer.  I copy the entire folder to a network drive.  I want to create a new manual using this first publication as a template, so I drag the whole folder onto my local computer again.  When I try to open this publication, PageMaker indeed sees all linked files like I intended, but it has to "update" the linked files.  OK, I can live with that.

But... in this process of updating all the perfectly linked files, PageMaker gives me an error.  I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was an EPS error, and PageMaker couldn't place the file.  It would give me this error for as many instances the EPS file was found in the publication, I believe.  The only way to get out of this loop of error codes is to time hitting the Return key to get rid of the error and clicking on Cancel to stop opening the file.  That was what was really pissing me off.

I visited this page, and tried the "Break Graphic Links" suggestion, which works, but in my trials I managed to create many more error messages, a few unopenable files, and a few PageMaker crashes.

There are so many different "issues" that crop up with PageMaker and so many unresolved bugs, that I just have no tolerance for this program anymore.


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## mdnky (Oct 31, 2003)

ID will open pager maker files, you might be able to get a copy of it and at least get your document open.

Maybe the problem you're having now, and the ability of opening PM files, whill convince the powers to be to upgrade to ID...you can only hope.


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## bigbadbill (Oct 31, 2003)

It sounds to me like a font is missing from the linked EPS file.

I use both PageMaker and InDesign and I much prefer InDesign. However don't expect a trouble free work flow from ID either, it can be a bit quirky too.


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## habilis (Nov 1, 2003)

Ragemaker is one of the worst things - wait, it IS the worst thing to ever happened to America. The horrifying fact that people actually pay over 10 dollars for that rotten program is almost too much for me to bear. In my design job people occasionally send me files in Ragemaker and I instantly cringe when I open the file. I don't want to waste too much time hating  and ranting on and on but I could if you really wanted to hear it. I could fill 10 typed pages, single spaced, about the evil scurge that is Ragemaker. It is such an amatuer limited worthless program, it doesn't even hold a tiny little birthday candle to Quark.

My colleauges and I have a special place in our hearts for hating Ragemaker. It's a daily joke around our office that someone has to use it. 

*Avoid Pagemaker at ALL COSTS!!!! It could ruin your life and make you look like a flaming Corky designer.*


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## MDLarson (Nov 1, 2003)

habilis said:
			
		

> *Avoid Pagemaker at ALL COSTS!!!! It could ruin your life and make you look like a flaming Corky designer.*


LOL, OK.  

Some day we will upgrade my system to an OS X platform, and InDesign will surely be a part of that.  It looks like Adobe is offering a $300 PageMaker > InDesign CS upgrade, but I can't run Mac OS X on my 400 MHz G3.  Will this upgrade offer last for a while?

Funding is a major issue at our small manufacturing business.  We're still not making money yet, so it's very difficult to replace equipment, even if it's justified.


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## mdnky (Nov 2, 2003)

Who told you that you can't you run X on your G3?  

I run X on a Beige G3 300, have since the public beta.  May be a tad slow compared to a newer G4 Mac, but she runs good.  Still get the work done, which is more than I can say about the P3 and P4 machines they have at the office.  They might be faster, but it isn't noticable...esp. when you gotta reboot every 10 mins.

Wait till CS comes out.  Upgrade to one of the suites (all you need is a copy of Photoshop for the suite upgrade) for $549 (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) or $749 (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, GoLive, Acrobat 6 Pro),


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## MDLarson (Nov 2, 2003)

mdnky said:
			
		

> Who told you that you can't you run X on your G3?
> 
> I run X on a Beige G3 300, have since the public beta.  May be a tad slow compared to a newer G4 Mac, but she runs good.  Still get the work done, which is more than I can say about the P3 and P4 machines they have at the office.  They might be faster, but it isn't noticable...esp. when you gotta reboot every 10 mins.


I told myself.  OS X simply isn't as fast as OS 9, and it was painfully slow when I tested it with 10.1 (I believe).  I plan on testing Panther out as soon as I buy my copy, for speed, but there are other compatibility requirements that I have to iron out before OS X goes primetime for me.


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## mdnky (Nov 3, 2003)

I notice very little difference on my machine between X and 9, probably due to the age more so.  it doesn;t like to run anything with "speed". <G>

I can tell you that the beta CS apps from Adobe are fast on 10.2.7 on 1.6 G5s.


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## italiano (Nov 8, 2003)

I remember when I got Pagemaker 1.0... I was in PIG HEAVEN    Guess I'm old eh'...


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## MDLarson (Nov 10, 2003)

Well, for those curious as to what my plans are... I just installed an ATA-133 hard drive controller and 60 GB hard drive in my G3 400 (B&W).  I also installed my copy of Panther on this drive and will begin to load software up on it to see how it goes.  So far, I'm psyched... It's running "OK".  OS X is just sooo cool, and to be able to use it at work would be really nice.

I should upgrade to OS X native versions of:
Photoshop (currently at 6)
SilverFast scanner software (not sure about this)
Illustrator (currently at 8)
Roland RIP engine / printer program (not sure about this)
Some sort of design program (probably InDesign)
MS Office (we're still at the 98 edition)

I know I'm forgetting some more programs I should account for, but I'm taking baby steps.  I can't afford to wast a lot of time on compatibility issues.


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## monktus (Nov 12, 2003)

Calm down habillis, PageMaker isn't so bad! ID is much better but having used Quark again recently after a big gap I found that it really frustrated me too. Sure, PM wasn't perfect, but it did invent DTP, and I never saw it as a direct rival to Quark but an alternative. For example, in the past PM was used mostly in publishing for books and the like, and Quark for magazines and more design orienated work. Things are obviously different now, I think ID is far superior to both the others, but I have quite fond memories of PageMaker, especially back when it was still by Aldus. I wouln't be surprised if many of the books you've read were layed up in PageMaker.


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## Arden (Nov 12, 2003)

My high school's yearbooks are all made in Pagemaker.  On a G4.


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## monktus (Nov 12, 2003)

We did our yearbook on PageMaker, now what machine was it again. Think it was an LCIII, and this was in 1998!


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## Arden (Nov 12, 2003)

Hmm, well I just graduated last year so we're a little farther along than that.


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## Pat the Rat (Jan 28, 2004)

I got InDesign and it was able to open my PageMaker 6.5 file fairly well, save for a few minor things. Now I won't have printing issues to worry about any more. Used to have to run PageMaker in classic mode which affected my ability to print to network printers set up on OSX. Now I just gotta learn InDesign - ha!


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## Randman (Jan 28, 2004)

PageMaker is a horrible application. A Frankenstein's Monster of layouts. Quark used to be the champ, but ID probably has the title nowadays. 
  And the fact that PMS (PageMaker sydrome but same results as the other) is used to make high school yearbooks talks wonders about its (lack of) usefulness. Thank goodness, it's soon to die (a sorely overdue death).

http://www.macminute.com/2004/01/19/indesign

http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/pm_ind.html

  I just wish the CCI pagination system used Macs. That would be a MAJOR victory for Apple.


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## Arden (Jan 28, 2004)

I'd think InDesign should be able to natively open PageMaker files without any problems, as they do come from the same company.  If not, well, shame on Adobe.


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## Natobasso (Feb 3, 2004)

Depending on what type of servers you have, your server could be corrupting your eps files as well as your PageMaker file. You might try compressing all your files when you store them on the server and see if that makes a difference, or don't store them on the server till you are done with them. 

Not the best answer but it could be the source of your problems. You will know if your server has something to do with it if you find some of your file names have been changed, extra files on the server created by the server, etc.


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## Macfry (Apr 25, 2005)

Hi there! Guess I'm joining kinda late...
About PMaker... I did hate it, too, whenever I had to use it. Just like MDLarson, I was working on owner's manuals (translating them actually) back in Japan, where quite a few manufacturers still insist on using it (but they don't know why most of the time, it's just because all the competitors use it...). Anyways, my point is, does anybody know about my favorite DTP soft, FRAMEMAKER (Adobe, only at its best)? To me, it's one of the best ones ever produced, far better than Quark or InDesign (as far as big projects are concerned... I wouldn't use it for brochures...). Unfortunately, only few companies use it... And even fewer people know about it... But it's awesome and powerful. Can handle huge manuals with multiple files and X-references, index, TOC, ... You name it. Granted, it's not cheap. But definitely worth each cent if you have to deal with major publications.


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## MDLarson (Apr 26, 2005)

I've _heard_ of FrameMaker, never used it though.  And I am happy to report that I am now happily using InDesign.  I have much less stress now that I am on my Mac OS X machine (vs. Mac OS 9, of course).


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## Leighla (Apr 28, 2005)

After 20 years as a designer I can't recommend any layout App but Quark.
I started on Pagemaker. Then got the privilege of working with Quark Xpress.
There is simply no comparison. It is an infinitly mor elegant Program, renders
Stunning typographic control. Well worth the investment in both time and money. I can still use my original investment version 3.2.


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## Natobasso (Apr 28, 2005)

Leighla, ever tried InDesign? I've been designing for 10 years, 9 of them with Quark, and I will NEVER go back. You should try it!


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## RGrphc2 (Apr 29, 2005)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> Leighla, ever tried InDesign? I've been designing for 10 years, 9 of them with Quark, and I will NEVER go back. You should try it!




InDesign Baby all the way!!!!  Quark got nothing on it, well except the apple script menu


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