# Enter the Dark Side!?



## hulkaros (Nov 4, 2002)

Let me explain some stuff before I begin: I am a PC/Mac tech person and I have some experiences that I would like to share with you all... Until Ed or Admin will feel that this thing gets out of control, I will keep posting one experience each and everyday from the Dark Side (aka Wintel/amd world...) with details on the subject. I will not post lies or imaginative things! This would be easy to figure out because I will try to give as much as humanly possible, details on the experiences so if one thinks that he/she knows about PCs then it will be easy to figure out if I'm telling lies...

Of course questions, remarks, etc. are welcome!

So, for 04/11/2002 here is one such experience: 

The systems...
--------------
2 boxes with the same following characteristics: Athlon XP 1700+, 256/266 DDR, Plextor 40/12/40 (in 1 of the two boxes), Pioneer DVD-ROM,  ECS mainboards, GeForce 4MX 440 w/TV out, Midi towers, floppies, Sounb Blaster Live! 5.1, 350 Watt power supplies, PS/2 MS keyboards + mice, Maxtor HDs 40 GB/7200/ATA100, 10/100 network with crossover cable, 80pin cables for both IDE channels, Windows 2000 Pro, AudioCatalyst 2.1, Ahead Nero 5.5.9.14, EasyCD Creator 5.3.2 Platinum, Creative apps, PowerDVD 3, 30.xx nVidia drivers, Win2k SP2, other system drivers...

The problem...
--------------
Everything works just fine on one PC! On the other PC the problem is a mind crashing experience! If NOT everyday, while recording CDs with Nero and/or EasyCDthe PC stops recognising the blank CDs!!!

The solution...
-------------
After switching EVERYTHING on both PCs, reformatting/reinstalling everything, updating BIOS, OS, !!!everything!!! no solution was found! Or almost no solution! By shutting down and restarting the PC every now and then, EVERYTHING works just fine! This of course BEFORE the problem's appearance because when it does a shutdown/restart doesn't solve the problem!

I know: It sounds strange, isn't it? And this is JUST one piece of the puzzle that PCs are!

Welcome to the Dark Side! Part 1 of ?


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## senne (Nov 4, 2002)

Hehe, great idea!


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## fryke (Nov 4, 2002)

I'll just add my own here, too, if I may.

I've bought an external CD-RW for my TiBook/500 once upon a time. It was a 4x4x16. Firewire. Atapi inside, of course. I then bought it an 'upgrade'. An 8x8x16 burner. Installed it, worked fine. Only: Apple System Profiler showed it as an USB device. And my Microsoft IntelliMouse suddenly was a Firewire device. I thought, huh? It worked fine, no flaws besides the strange ASP thing. I replaced it with a Yamaha 16x10x40 later on and put the 8x burner inside my PC. Wouldn't work. Ever. No chance. I thought that, well, it DID run in my Mac and it DID come with PC drivers only, so it MUST run in a PC. I gave it to a friend. It wouldn't run. Ever. He gave it to another. And then it came back to me. Out of curiosity, I tried it again in the firewire case on my Mac. Meanwhile, I had updated to Mac OS X 10.1.4 - and the burner wasn't only working (it worked as well as before), but the strange ASP mixup was resolved. Anyone care to say there is no third party hardware support on Macintosh?


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## serpicolugnut (Nov 4, 2002)

Yeah, I can go on ad nauseum about all the little "quirks" I've had to deal with on PCs over the years too. The only problem is, I can list just as many strange problems that occur on Macs.

Case in point...

As you can see by my setup below, I have a G4/800DP and a TiBook800. I routinely turn on filesharing on the G4/800 and use it as a makeshift server, since it has the largest HD. Well, a week ago, all of a sudden, everytime I open a browser on the G4/800DP, no matter which browser it is, it takes about 5 minutes for the splash screen to disappear and the app to become responsive. Since I've been a Mac user a LOOOONG time, and remembered that this would sometimes happen under OS 9 because an active app would come to expect a network connection that might not be there anymore, I tried reconnecting the computers. No dice. I then tried to delete all the preferences that were related to the networking extensions. No dice again. I examined the console log to see what was happening, and still couldn't get an idea of why it would take the browsers 5 minutes to become operational. I posted queries to Apple's boards, Macintouch, etc. I found one other person experiencing a similar problem, but he couldn't figure out how to remedy it either.

Eventually I had to break down, back everything up , and reinstall Jaguar. Being a web designer, I just couldn't handle a 5 min. startup time for my browsers everytime I checked something in them.

The Mac definitely has the ease of use advantage, but you are fooling yourself if you think that the PC has the market cornered on "weird" things that should work but don't.

I'm really afraid that this forum is quickly becoming the "temple" of Mac OS religous fanaticism. Think different people - don't be blinded by your ideology! There's good & bad on both platforms!


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## toast (Nov 4, 2002)

You're having a great idea, hulk. I hope I could join you on this one and post my own experiences, but my PC experience is very limited whereas my Mac experience is in comparison very wide. I only use PCs at work to type some text and to browse the Web, while my Mac is full of stuff I use on a daily basis.


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## ApeintheShell (Nov 4, 2002)

I don't really have the specs with me but i used to work for a retail chain in the mall in denver which no longer exists. They enlisted me to set-up windows 98 as a kiosk for them. Read the instructions 8 times and 8 times i had to reinstall it. Finally i gave up and they returned the pc.
Currently mom has a PowerSpec PC in her office. She has windows xp home installed and a month ago she bought a microtech scanner. Installed photoshop and scanner driver's and all seemed to be in working order. It refused to scan so we sent it back to the company. Fast forward to yesterday. My mother tells me if i want to use the scanner i have to plug it in, and turn it on before i start the computer. So much for plug n play. I checked all the connections and turned it on and off on and off..etc. I have about 800 sheets of drawings to scan and this didn't help. So i tell my bro and he gets on there and it works fine. He says i just don't know how to operate Windows. "laugh" Are the instructions for pc's and peripherials helpful or just there to waste people's time so they can call tech support?


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## Tigger (Nov 5, 2002)

Well, I think this is a good place to share my experiences with my new PC:

First thing:
I wanted to attach my harddisk as primary master and my DVD as secondary master. the stupid bios couldn't find the DVD. jumpers all in the right place. Trial and error finally ended up in DVD on secondary slave, cause it just won't work as master. Okay.

Now, installing the OS, Windows XP Home:
Just hangs at some point, and I only see a black screen with a blinking cursor in the upper left.

So I put in the Windows XP pro CD of my brother, and this one had no problems and I could format the harddisk. after that was done, even XP home installed without problems.
Never thought installing could be such a hassle...

Since then, I had no problem at all (Well, except I am used to the Mac OS X finder  ). But I have to see how it behaves in the long run...


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## hulkaros (Nov 5, 2002)

Experience from the Dark Side... For 05/11/2002:

The systems...
--------------
P4/2GHz, Intel 845 mainboard, 512/266DDR, Sound Blaster Live 5.1, Yamaha CD-RW 20x10x40, DVD Pioneer, power supply 350 Watt, GeForce 2MX/400 w/TV out, Midi Tower, floppy, IBM DeskStar HD 60GB/ATA66/7200rpm formatted in NTFS, 80pin IDE cables, noname PS2 keyboard+mouse, Windows 2000 Pro, Ahead Nero 5.5.9.14, MS Office 2000+SR1, Creative apps, PowerDVD 3, 30.xx nVidia drivers, Win2k SP2, Fifa 2001, Age Of Empires 2, other system drivers...

The problem...
--------------
Everything worked more than fine for 5-6 months... Then the system it wouldn't just pass the boot screen of Windows 2000 now is starting up! After 2 or 3 minutes gives a BSOD and then freezes.

The solution...
-------------
Tried EVERYTHING: Safe Boot, Console, Last Succesful Boot, changing ALL the hardware (with fresh new of course), Repair process with and without repair disk, Repair via console, reinstalling on a different location but... No solution! Fresh reinstall with formatting in NTFS and everything is back on track with the same hardware! So far so good  

Welcome to the Dark Side! Part 2 of ?

Also, keep in mind that I started this thread after checking with Ed first and I didn't started it to provoke anyone on this very forum... This is not a Mac VS PC thread so I hope that people will not treat it as one!  And yes, I know that Macs have their share of problems too and such cases can be found in other sections of www.macosx.com forums or ANY other Mac forums out there but in my opinion Mac related problems are more easier to understand in order to solve them (at least 90% of the cases) but that's another case study!?


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## serpicolugnut (Nov 5, 2002)

Hulkaros -

If you had been using WinXP you would have been able to use Active Recovery. Or, even under 2000, you could use Roxio's GoBack, which will roll the system back to it's last usable state.


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## hulkaros (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *Hulkaros -
> 
> If you had been using WinXP you would have been able to use Active Recovery. Or, even under 2000, you could use Roxio's GoBack, which will roll the system back to it's last usable state. *



In our company we DO NOT support illegal software and those PCs that I described earlier on and I will describe in the future are from our customers. So, you see I cannot install into their PCs whatever software I want and/or like.

As for XP, I learned the hard way that the Recovery system doesn't always work!

That's why they say the best protection method is that of Backups!  

For our company however we try to keep the systems into their best shapes with Norton Ghost which so far, just a few times let us down...


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## kendall (Nov 7, 2002)

What's the point of this thread, to bash PCs in a subtle, non direct way?

If I were to post my negative experiences with Macs, would I be flamed and labeled a troll?

Honestly, this is not "Mac News" worthy.

Who ever gave you permission to start this thread obviously needs to get his Mac Community priorities straight.


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## edX (Nov 7, 2002)

> Honestly, this is not "Mac News" worthy.



then let's just consider it a rumor thread.  

if you really want to take shots at me, why don't you at least be brave enough to address me by name.


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## hulkaros (Nov 7, 2002)

Experience from the Dark Side... For 06/11/2002:

The systems...
--------------
Athlon XP 1900+, ASUS A7A133 mainboard, 256/266DDR, Sound Blaster Live 5.1, LiteOn CD-RW 24x10x40, DVD-Rom Nec, power supply 350 Watt, GeForce 2MX/400 w/TV out, Midi Tower, floppy, Maxtor HD 20GB/ATA133/7200rpm formatted in NTFS, 80pin IDE cables, MS PS2 keyboard+mouse, Windows 2000 Pro, Ahead Nero 5.5.9.14, Norton SystemWorks 2002, AudioCatalyst 2.1, QuickTime 6, MS Office 2000+SR1, Creative apps, Corel Suite 10, PowerDVD 3, 30.xx nVidia drivers, Win2k SP3, Media Player 7.1, PC-DJ Red, AIM, Mirc32, Pinnacle PC/TV Pro, other system drivers...

The problem...
--------------
Everything worked more than fine for 9 months... After the user installed Win2k SP3 all went wrong! VERY slow performance of Windows 2000... Random crashes of the whole system... Random cases of not booting up or shutting down... Not able to connect to the internet via ISDN...

The solution...
-------------
I guess that why they say if it ain't broke don't try to fix it! Up until SP3 the user was more than satisfied with his system other than some crashes now and then... The solution if you can call it that, was that the customer bought a new Maxtor 80GB DiamondMax 9/ATA133/7200rpm and then we proceeded with fresh reinstall with formatting in NTFS and everything is fine with the same hardware but NOT SP3! So far so good!

Welcome to the Dark Side! Part 3 of ?

Aren't awesome the new PowerBooks? Yep! I can see myself buying that 1GHz with DVD-R and selling that box of 867 with DVD-R


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## kendall (Nov 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *then let's just consider it a rumor thread.
> 
> if you really want to take shots at me, why don't you at least be brave enough to address me by name.  *



I don't really know you Ed but I'd say your desicion to allow such a thread constitutes a serious lack judgment.

As for a "rumor thread", you do mean a *Mac *News & Rumors thread don't you?  Considering this is the *Mac *News & Rumors forum, could you explain to me what PCs have to do with *Mac *News & Rumors?

I think the word *Mac* before "News & Rumors" pretty much denotes the purpose of this forum.  Don't you?


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## Erix (Nov 7, 2002)

If you would have paid for the pc as much as you paid for your apple computer, you wouldn't have this much problem. 

Also; the dark side is a "pc with windows". Try a "pc with Linux" and see how bright that side is. 

Let the;

- Apple vs pc
- windows vs Linux
- Macosx vs Linux

debates begin.


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## edX (Nov 7, 2002)

maybe this one is a "serious lack of judgement", but since things are pretty slow with real apple news and rumors, i thought this would be entertaining until we get some things to actually talk about in here. and there really isn't a place to post this stuff anywhere else on the site. although i must admit i thought the stories would be a bit better than this. 

there are those of us who really hate pc's, hate m$, and hate all that they stand for. I am one of them. I have been a loyal mac user since a pc was an IBM and the only other UI was dos.  the history that has led us to today and pc domination of the world is nothing short of horrific.  souls were defintly sold in the process.

frankly, as mac users on a mac forum, if we want to bash pc's and m$, that's our right. at least we don't go to pc forums and bash pc's like some pc users like to come here and bash macs. 

you don't have to read this thread. now that you've determined it is a terrible waste, you can ignore it. you could even put Hulkaros on ignore if you find his pro mac/anti wintel stance to be too extreme. but so far he has done a good job of sticking with the facts and not bashing the people who brought these pc's in for being pc users. Bashing pc's is generally allowed here. bashing pc users is normally not.  I'll admit Hulk's title for the thread is a bit overdramatic, but then he has a tendency to be that way at times. We love him anyway. At least his heart is in the right place.

and if you have any stories about troubles with macs, post them in one of the troubleshooting forums with all the rest. no one is denying that macs have problems too. But for some reason, most of ours can be figured out and fixed on a forum without having to go see a tech.


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## plastic (Nov 7, 2002)

Itanium, just browse the other threads. Leave this thread alone. I am learning new things everyday here.

- - - 

PS: Dun use Audigy. It conflicts with almost everything thrid party. (in PC world, it means everything else).


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## Jason (Nov 7, 2002)

in other news ed both our teams got their butts handed to them this weekend 

as far as this thread goes, i think we should open it up to funny odd quirks on all computer systems, it would be more fun, kinda like telling scary stories around a camp fire


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## plastic (Nov 7, 2002)

Yup, I think this is basically it! Thanks BuddahBobb... I could not have said it better. Campfire stories.


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## fryke (Nov 8, 2002)

From the 'Interface Hall of Shame':







Wonder what it does, if you click 'yes'?


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## hulkaros (Nov 9, 2002)

In the past two days I had THE trouble!

In a mixed environment of 16 PCs with a variety of hardware and OSes I was consumed by the mind/soul breaking of PC troubles... Just follow me:
Experience from the Dark Side... For 07 and 08/11/2002:

The systems...
--------------
Anything between Intel P2, P3 & P4 up to 1.7 GHz and up to Athlon XP 1600+ with NICs with Windows 98se, Windows 2000 (w/SP2) and Windows XP (w/SP1)...

The problem...
--------------
Everything worked almost perfect for the past 6 months or so that we support the company that owns the above systems. Until the systems took matters into their own "hands"! They started NOT to see each other on the Network... 

The solution...
-------------
No matter what I tried: Inspected/Changed switches, cables, NICs, drivers, patches, EVERYTHING... Check for Viruses: Clean! Run some hardware tests: Perfect! So, freaking systems what is your problem I asked and of course NO answer came... Then not wanting to visit a doctor myself tried the following: Uninstalled ALL network related settings, drivers, apps, cleaned up the Registries as much as I could (manually) and after all said and done, I re-installed all the above stuff... Guess what? Everything works just fine! Sounds logical, doesn't it?

Welcome to the Dark Side! Part 4 of ?

I would like to tell you about the BSOD that I have to fix on a Windows XP with P4/2.4 GHz after I'll finish with this post but that's a story for another time...


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## kendall (Nov 9, 2002)

Working perfect for six months in a network environment is quite a testament to any OS.

Perhaps you wouldn't have so much trouble with PC hardware and software if you were better at what you "do?"


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## kendall (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *From the 'Interface Hall of Shame':
> 
> 
> ...



It would likely open up a file explorer allowing you to find messages in folders other than "Deleted Items" and delete them manually.

Why exactly is that so hard to understand?


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## hulkaros (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by itanium _
> *Working perfect for six months in a network environment is quite a testament to any OS.
> 
> Perhaps you wouldn't have so much trouble with PC hardware and software if you were better at what you "do?"   *



...try to reply EVEN better...

I wrote ALMOST PERFECT and also I didn't tell the PCs to break down in the first place! However, they did that by themselves just fine  

And believe me... for them to be able to work ALMOST PERFECT for six months it was MY personal work who let them do that until as I said they took the matters into their own "hands"  

Last, try to enjoy your visits to my posts as much as possible because I can see that you like to reply to someone's posts who isn't doing his job correclty   After all this makes you look good, isn't it?


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## plastic (Nov 9, 2002)

Guess who gave them Microsofties the idea? 

THE DAMN WRITER OF "MISSION - IMPOSSIBLE". Part 3 of the movie will feature a mainframe that goes "This mainframe, bought new, will self destruct in 12 months, right after all warranty coverage are over!"

Sony does this best. LOL.


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## hulkaros (Nov 21, 2002)

Yep... It's me!

Anyways, I didn't post anything in the past few weeks or so because I saw an increased amount of news/rumors here... But it was a good timing because in my job we had THE work with Macs!  

We sold about 15 Macs, applications, games, peripherals, THE WORKS... And I had more work to do with Macs (THANK GOD) than with PCs  

However, what I wanted to share with you is this:
The new PowerBooks rule! We sold 2 867MHz and they are AWESOME! That's why I ordered the 1GHz with DVD-R ASAP!!! Unfortunately I have to wait up until 15 of December or so   

I don't know why people whine so much about Apple's offerings but I'm guessing it is because they like to do so... Believe me when I say that there is nothing like the new Dual G4/1.25 with GeForce 4Ti or the new PB/867 in the Dark Side of things  

These toys/tools are SO cool!


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## fryke (Nov 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by itanium _
> *It would likely open up a file explorer allowing you to find messages in folders other than "Deleted Items" and delete them manually.
> 
> Why exactly is that so hard to understand? *



The message says: "Do you want Outlook Express to delete some items for you?"

It doesn't SOUND like it would give you a list. It says it would do it on its own, without interaction. It's just scary, is all.

Imagine you're in the kitchen and I ask you, sitting at your computer: "Do you want me to delete some mails for you?" Would you think the answer 'YES' (not browse or select or whatever) would lead to a good feeling?


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## kendall (Nov 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *The message says: "Do you want Outlook Express to delete some items for you?"
> 
> It doesn't SOUND like it would give you a list. It says it would do it on its own, without interaction. It's just scary, is all.
> ...



I'll admit, it could be worded better but I would assume a Explorer window would popup if I clicked yes giving me access to other Outlook Explorer folders that might have files I wish to delete.  The way you expect things in Windows to work differs greatly from Mac OS.

Another thing I find silly about refering to the 'Interface Hall of Shame' is that the Windows UIs  they reference are from 95 and NT.  Eight year old UIs that have since changed dramatically.  I tried to get Outlook Express to do what your picture indicates, it wont.  Obviously its been fixed.

Did OS 8 and 9 not have things about them that didn't make sense that Apple has since fixed?  I don't see anyone referencing these OSs and pointing fingers.  That would just be silly. Why do the same thing with Windows?


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## MDLarson (Nov 21, 2002)

I find this thread intriguing but anyway,


> _Originally posted by itanium _
> *Did OS 8 and 9 not have things about them that didn't make sense that Apple has since fixed?  I don't see anyone referencing these OSs and pointing fingers.  That would just be silly. Why do the same thing with Windows? *


Actually, I think (and I hope others do too) that OS 8 / 9 had a more intuitive interface than OS X.  And I don't really remember ever going "huh?!?!" to an error message or anything, but maybe it's subjective.

<shrug>


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## boi (Nov 21, 2002)

i think it's funny when people say "the PC crashed because you're not good at using it". it's a good default argument, kinda like claiming someone's a witch. 
if people on this messageboard (inferring some sort of computer knowledge) can have a WinTel machine totally crash on them, imagine what people who aren't exactly PC savvy think. it's a good thing for tech support employees that WinTel machines are still the norm ^_^. 

anyway, nothing quirky with my Mac yet, but i  do have a story with my old iMac. initiate ghost story telling voice!
one night, in a dark room, lit only by the distinctive 75Hz flicker of an iMac CRT, a poor young man was minding his own business, fiddling around on the internet. a cilck here, a click there... a few more clicks and he would go to bed. he wasn't aware of the events that would unfold before him on that dark and dreary night. (dum dum DUHNuHNUHHH)
after he put his computer to sleep, he noticed something rather odd-- the computer didn't spin down the hard disk as it usually does when it goes to sleep. (DUHNUHNAHNUHHH)
curious, the lad clicked his mouse. nothing. he pushed the space bar. nothing. the pulsing power button kept on, relentleslly deriding the poor boy as it would light up the room, then fade into darkness. this cycle would go on until the boy simply could not take it any more. he slowly reached his finger out to the power button and pressed it, holding it down. 5 seconds later the light ceased, the hard disk spinning down.
beads of sweat formed on the worried boy's brow. what would happen once the power was turned back on? fearing the future, the boy stalled a bit, but it had to happen. he reached out and turned the computer on. (DUH NUH DuHHHH)
the boy was shattered when the friendly mac chime did not sound to ease his pain. the computer began to boot normally, however, but he was still worried. he waited for an eternity before the familiar, soothing GUI of OS X came up. Ah! the dock! yes, everything is fine. but that's when IT happened ... ( DUH DUH DUH DUHHHHHH)
like the night itself, blackness smeared across the friendly face of the OS X GUI. text was sprawled over the screen. nothing but random characters, it seemed. letters, numbers, all mocking the poor user as he sat there, defenseless against the onslaught of this harbinger of doom. a few characters stood out to him: "KERNEL", "SYSTEM", "ERROR", "MORON"; and then he saw it: "panic: we are hanging here". 
the boy was never heard from again.


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## MDLarson (Nov 22, 2002)




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## genghiscohen (Nov 22, 2002)

I got an email the other day from a friend who I consider a definite Windows "power user."  She has an HP desktop, less than 1 year old, and runs XP Pro on it.  Fast Pentium 4, lots of DDR RAM.
She mentioned that her latest ftp session had failed because of pop-ups.
Say what???
Turns out she was web surfing and opened a couple of web pages that triggered pop-ups.  This in turn slowed everything to a crawl, including her ftp.  So she did the 3-finger salute to bring up the Task Manager.  And when she explicitly told it to just close those browser windows, it promptly shut down everything!
Just one day earlier, she had commented that she was experiencing a lot of instability, and was going to defrag her hard drive for the 2nd time in 3 days.
Yup, that Bill Gates is some computer genius, all right...


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Nov 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by genghiscohen _
> *So she did the 3-finger salute to bring up the Task Manager.  And when she explicitly told it to just close those browser windows, it promptly shut down everything!
> *



that would be, because IE6 has NOT Responded. If any window has caused IE to crash, although it may appear the others aren't effected, they are. And so, attempting to close the null window via Task Manager will bring you to a "this program is not responding window" ... For which it tells you may continue to wait for the app to respond (Via Cancel) or end the Task (Via End Now) ...Thats why it would of closed all windows. 

On a personal note, i wouldn't really want to use IE for FTP Anyhow, but each and everyone to their OWN!

Neyo


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Nov 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *that would be, because IE6 has NOT Responded. If any window has caused IE to crash, although it may appear the others aren't effected, they are. And so, attempting to close the null window via Task Manager will bring you to a "this program is not responding window" ... For which it tells you may continue to wait for the app to respond (Via Cancel) or end the Task (Via End Now) ...Thats why it would of closed all windows.
> 
> On a personal note, i wouldn't really want to use IE for FTP Anyhow, but each and everyone to their OWN!
> ...



Oooh, i've got that Leaked Longhorn Build to play with 2morra! 

Neyo


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## MacLegacy (Nov 22, 2002)

hey boi, I think you should do a lot more of that kind of stories, pretty good!


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## mdnky (Nov 23, 2002)

Here's on:

Brand new Dell P4 1.6 with 512mb of DDR.  My father got it around the christmass season and I helped him set it up.  Take everything out of the box and hook then plugged in the mouse, keyboard, and monitor.

Power the system, everything goes ok.  He goes through the setup assistants and is finally done (45 minutes later).  Not 2 minutes after that I hear "What the he||!".  Walk in the den and what do I see?  Take a wild guess...our favorite thing in the world - the Windows screen of death.

What makes it better is we reboot and get the weirdest error message, and IMHO the funniest ever.  I wish I would been able to save a screen shot.

The computer (XP) told us the system lacked the minimal required specs to run it.  He calls Dell, and the tech can barely speak English.  When we tell him what's going on there's a long silence, followed by a request to hold as he's transfering us to a higher tier tech person.  Dell has no idea as the cause.  Takes 2 days for them to offer to replace it.  We decide to call back if that's required, and format and reinstall XP. 

Now the thing works, er...now it slugs.  My father thinks it's fast as he||, but remember he bought this to replace a 100mhz pentium with 64 mb ram and Win98.  After a week or so we had it exchanged.  The new system didn't do any of this junk, but I still think it should be much faster.


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## hulkaros (Nov 25, 2002)

P4/1.7 GHz with Asus P4B and 256MB of ram with 40GB hard disk + Nec DVD and other stuff... Loaded with Windows 2000 Pro, Office 2000 Pro and PowerDVD 3.0 fails to play DVDs at normal speed!!!

No matter what, the DVD insists on NOT playing at normal speed (1x)! Instead it plays movies on 2x speed!!!

Installed PowerDVD 4 (aka XP)... Nothing! Updated BIOS... Nothing! Updated mainboard drivers... Nothing! Updated graphics card drivers... Nothing! Installed WinDVD 3.0... Nothing! Cleaned registry... Nothing! Tried everything but reinstalling the OS, etc.... STILL nothing!!! Playback of movies still at 2x speed!!!

Solution? Where is it? Still trying to figure things out... Now, if ANYONE here got a similar problem and found a solution PLEASE let me know ASAP... Cause I'm starting to lose it


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## hulkaros (Nov 26, 2002)

Athlon XP 2000+, ECS mainboard, 256 MB DDR/266, 40 GB hard disk, GeForce 4MX 440 64 MB + tv out, Nec DVD-ROM, Windows XP Pro, LiteOn CD-RW, other system utilities after copying stuff around (cd to hd, hd to hd, hd to cd-rw, cd to cd-rw) the system ABSOLUTELY freezes! Note than moving around files on hard disk is not freezing the system... Or doing ANYTHING else including play games! However, after a freeze: Reset, try the same copy stuff... Freeze!

Updated EVERYTYHING... Tried the usual stuff, nothing! Changed hardware... The same freezing!!! Solution? Reformatted, reinstalled everything with the original hardware & software and everything is back on track!

Thank God it was a fresh new PC ready for selling and not one loaded with important stuff...


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## hulkaros (Nov 26, 2002)

An HP P4/1.7 GHz server running Windows 2000 Server, with 512 MB RAM was working just fine for the last couple of months... Then all of the sudden after shutting it down for a couple of hours for maintenance and then tried it to start it up it crashed giving us I/O errors!!!

Checked the hardware again and again... Nothing! Checked the hard disks... Nope! Tried to boot in other ways... Nay! Used the Repair method with the so called Emergency Disk... Zip! Manual Repair method with and without the use of console... Still nothing!  

I/O errors, NT kernel errors, the works! Then decided to install in a different location (directory) and after some time the system booted in the new install... However, uppon restarting the Server I gave another shot by booting in the old problematic setup and guess what? It simply worked as if nothing had happened  

But because the Server has 2 installations and this by experience can mess things after some time BADLY we have to backup everything and reinstall from the beginning...  

Sounds like fun, huh? But you know what? This really sucks!


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## Sirtovin (Nov 26, 2002)

i made the switch to mac on 11-25-02... I will tell you this... OS X is a fine running GUI... Although I do miss system restore in Windows XP lol... and the easy... Add/program remove tab... I still find that OS X is superior than what Windows has to offer...


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## MDLarson (Nov 26, 2002)

Well, Sirtovin!  Let me welcome you to the community!  

What kind of Mac did you get?  And what made you decide to switch?  Reading this thread?


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## Sirtovin (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MDLarson _
> *Well, Sirtovin!  Let me welcome you to the community!
> 
> What kind of Mac did you get?  And what made you decide to switch?  Reading this thread?   *



Dual 867Mhz Power Mac G4... upped the memory to 1.2ghz... or 2 512mb and the 256mb it came with... this is sweet... 

I made the switch because as a writer... an aspiring one at that... I just find that the PC has to many gaming intrests to distract me... plus the fact that I want to get into web design.. so wala... I made the Switch and I have no regrets... except for my own learning curve which is high... but this is a new sleek water... kind of beautiful woman... the MAC... is.


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## MDLarson (Nov 26, 2002)

Well, there's plenty of gaming distractions on the Mac as well  You can typically get the better games for Mac as well as PC these days.  Good luck on your new system!


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## Sirtovin (Nov 28, 2002)

Don't really want to bash Wintel systems... but I have to... Windows XP... nice it was... When I played with it... I was one of the fools who paid MS... $20 for the beta RC1 and RC2 trials... before it's release... 

Now Longhorn is coming out and do you know what I have to say to this... "I don't Care..." I am free from the chains of Billy Gates... and his continued monopoly... If I want to play monopoly I will play the board game... but dang it to heck with him... and his lousy OS's....


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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

wow i never noticed this windows bashing thread....  how original


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## Litening (Nov 28, 2002)

Hulk,
     I just got me a MaC recently and am selling my PC. I'd love to just smash it, but hey... I'd rather make money out of a piece a'  crap. Good deal.
    I was reading through your first three problems and I'll tell you this... I have had that problem with my Pc .. or ex-PC for so long. I owned it for a year.. but had reinstalled windows and reconfigured the BIOS for 7 times already. It seems like the Cd ting only works for 3 weeks and then it needs overhauling.
   Strange . Now it also does not read any installer files from CD's as well.

Litening


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## Sirtovin (Nov 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BuddahBobb _
> *wow i never noticed this windows bashing thread....  how original  *



OMG!  You mean this IS a windows bashing thread?


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## plastic (Nov 28, 2002)

No NO No... this is a PC experience sharing thread..


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## fryke (Nov 28, 2002)

You don't have to be PC all the time on this thread, plastic.


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## Sirtovin (Nov 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *You don't have to be PC all the time on this thread, plastic.  *



I tell you all this... It's been 3 days since I made the switch... and I've noticed how quite my Mac is... As compared to my old PC which sounded like a race car...


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## plastic (Nov 28, 2002)

I have a AMD, with an aluminum casing. Guess what... my room sounds like the airport when I start up the engines... sorry, I meant the PC. 

Fryke.... dun laugh at me.


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## Erix (Nov 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by plastic _
> *I have a AMD, with an aluminum casing. Guess what... my room sounds like the airport when I start up the engines... sorry, I meant the PC. *



So why didn't you buy a silent fan?


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## hulkaros (Nov 28, 2002)

...that I should never underestimate the power of the Dark Side!

A P4/2.4 GHz, 512 MB 266DDR, 60GB Maxtor 7200, intel mainboard, SB Audigy 1, Plextor CD-RW, Pioneer DVD-R, Samsung CD-ROM, HP USB Scanner 3500, HP USB Printer 990, External USB2/FireWire 3.5" Hard Disk (120GB Maxtor) running Windows XP + SP1, Easy CD Creator Platinum, Ahead Nero, Power DVD, McAfee Virus+Firewall and other system utilities, etc. kicked my tech knowledge back into the Padawan level...

When the customer who bought the above so-called beast I thought that everything was running perfect! However, after a week or so the customer came back to our company with the PC and all its gear into boxes and everything because he thought we sold him a problematic computer... Of course we denied this and after a half an hour of aggresive negotiations we connected everything and booted the PC only to find out this:
-When the computer plays DVD or burns a CD while at the same time a document is printing and a picture is scanned at resolutions above 600 dpi the PC crushes!!! Oooops!!!

Under those conditions NO MATTER WHAT the PC crashes... Gave a shot by reinstalling everything with Windows 2000: No problem! Other than the customer WANTS the XP 

So, reinstalled XP for one more time with the newest drivers and stuff but the problem STILL occurs under XP... Reinstalled XP without SP1 but with the default set of drivers and later on with the newest ones and still BOOM...

However, when doing ANYTHING else the system works perfect... Changed printer and/or scanner didn't resolve the issue either!

The PC and everything is still in our company's tech stuff and a solution is yet to be found. If ANYONE (including the PC guys around here -yes I know that I wasn't and still I'm not their best friend here but who knows-) knows a solution to this problem: Please let me know ASAP...


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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

i dont know hulk, burning a cd, playing a dvd, printing and scanning at the same is a pretty processor intensive thing for any computer, osx probably wouldnt crash, but i know for a fact it wouldnt be happy with it...

my reccomendation, tell the customer he needs to do less at a time... cd burning and dvd playing take up a lot of cpu attention, printing takes up a good amount of cache as well as a cd burn, and a scan can do the same as well, its just not a healthy thing to do really....

ive done this on my g4, and my cd came out skippy, my print job was slow, my movie jumped around a bit and the scan was uber slow... its just one of those things you dont do in general IMO


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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

oh!

i remember last year when i had both easy cd creator and ahead nero installed on my pc that they put conflicting drivers on it, im not sure if thats still the case, but it crashed my computer horribly when doing cd-rw type things....

just an idea


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## hulkaros (Nov 28, 2002)

However read more close my post and you will see that when Windows 2000 is the OS of the PC the work gets done... And the bad part is that the customer saw that and he believes (because we didn't tell him to buy XP -we, as a company, insisted to buy the Windows 2000-) that we want to sell him the Windows 2000!!! Of course he believes that because here in our country Windows 2000 is MORE expensive than XP Pro...

We are sure that the problem lies somewhere in the XP way of doing things but what would that be is another story!

As for Nero and EasyCD everything is ok for anyone if he/she will install the new versions (5.1.3.x for EasyCD and 5.5.x.x for Nero) so if for your PC don't have them get them now and everything will be fine


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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

hmmm didnt see the 2k vs xp thing, thats rather interesting, thats the first time ive heard of something of that nature happening in xp and not in 2k, is it home edition or pro?

all the jumper settings are set correctly right? 

and im glad they updated their products (i only use easy cd creator now anyways) cause that was a pain in the ass dealing with their drivers lol


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## hulkaros (Nov 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BuddahBobb _
> *hmmm didnt see the 2k vs xp thing, thats rather interesting, thats the first time ive heard of something of that nature happening in xp and not in 2k, is it home edition or pro?
> 
> all the jumper settings are set correctly right?
> ...



Both Windows 2000 and XP were the Pro versions and that's strange a lot   

Jumpers are set ok, too! Tomorrow we are gonna search at HP's, Microsoft's, et al support forums for info just in case... Right now, here in Greece it's midnight   

And BuddahBob I wanted you to know that no hard feelings, right? Thank you for your interest and really I'm DEAPLY sorry about being such a headstrong the other day no matter what the cause... For this, we have in our country (the small but lovely Greece) a saying: Till the day that "excuse" or "sorry" was invented, world got full of donkeys...


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## Langley (Nov 28, 2002)

[plastic]"I have a AMD, with an aluminum casing. Guess what... my room sounds like the airport when I start up the engines... sorry, I meant the"[/QUOTE] 


My DPG4 is as loud as my Athlon 1.4 (big fan), in fact it's the loudest computer I have heard!


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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Both Windows 2000 and XP were the Pro versions and that's strange a lot
> 
> Jumpers are set ok, too! Tomorrow we are gonna search at HP's, Microsoft's, et al support forums for info just in case... Right now, here in Greece it's midnight
> ...



so this was a pre configured computer from HP or has it been since customized?

this is one of the things i do hate about pc's the fact that pc companies make some fubar computers lol ive always built mine and my friends' computers, it seems pc companies just dont put quality into their builds 

question about your windows installs... on xp did you try both an upgrade from 2k and a clean install? also am i getting it right that it has 3 optical drives? why? shouldnt the 2 be enough? ive heard of some people on certain mobos (dont know which) that have probs with  more than two optical drives (2 taking up one ide chain and the other being slave to the master drive on the other), i dont know if thats a feasible option to try or not though

anyways the way i fix things is odd, i just try weird stuff until it works, and its usually a guessing game *shrugs* 

and no, there arent hard feelings lol, im not stupid enough to judge you based on one thread in which our opinions were different  its very hard to get on my bad side, trust me


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## hulkaros (Nov 28, 2002)

"so this was a pre configured computer from HP or has it been since customized?"

It is a computer build from 0 to 100% here in our company supposedly based on the "best" parts which were chosen by the customer...

"this is one of the things i do hate about pc's the fact that pc companies make some fubar computers lol ive always built mine and my friends' computers, it seems pc companies just dont put quality into their builds"

Right now, I don't know which part is the one with the poor quality and I really hope is JUST one  

"question about your windows installs... on xp did you try both an upgrade from 2k and a clean install? also am i getting it right that it has 3 optical drives? why? shouldnt the 2 be enough? ive heard of some people on certain mobos (dont know which) that have probs with more than two optical drives (2 taking up one ide chain and the other being slave to the master drive on the other), i dont know if thats a feasible option to try or not though"

Each install was fresh! Meaning that each time I mentioned that we installed this and that OS, it was a whole new install... Format first (NTFS)... Then install everything...

As for why we put 3 optical drives: The customer insisted because a person whom he trusts A LOT, told him NOT to play CDs from the DVD-R and/or CD-RW; instead he must use a CD-ROM for playing CDs because if he'll not do it that way then the DVD-R and CD-RW will become damaged very soon!!! Go figure because both the DVD-R and CD-RW are top notch in quality!

The problem for us is that while under Windows 2000 Pro everything works like charm, the crashes come under XP only! But you gave me an idea which I'll give a shot tomorrow: I will disconnect the second device from the IDE1 channel and see what gives (we only disconnected the external device, changed jumpers on devices, cables, etc.)... Thanks  

"anyways the way i fix things is odd, i just try weird stuff until it works, and its usually a guessing game *shrugs*"

Yes, I know what you are talking about... At strange times like this one, the trial & error method becomes the ONLY method  

"and no, there arent hard feelings lol, im not stupid enough to judge you based on one thread in which our opinions were different  its very hard to get on my bad side, trust me"

Thanks!


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## Jason (Nov 29, 2002)

well is a weird idea, but try upgrading from win2k to xp instead of doing a clean install....

i had to do this on an older computer for one of the drivers to play nice for a modem... i know i know, its a weird solution 


----


oh and im going to be watching this thread closely


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## stealth (Nov 29, 2002)

a few of my friends seem to run into the same problem and i dont know what i can do 2 help them. what happens is that on win2k or winXP a certain problem occurs and the computer crashes or there might be a black out. next time they turn on their computer a blue screen appears, it runs some tests.(im sorry if my descriptions and very accurate but i cant remember what they said). then a message appears sayin that they should enter windows and fix any problems immediately. the problem is that they dont know what to do in order to continue and enter the windows environment. so they restart the computer and the same blue screen appears and performs the same checks. does any1 know how u could bypass this process and enter windows immediately ? thanx


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## Sirtovin (Nov 29, 2002)

Why not tell them to make the Switch...lol.


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## stealth (Nov 29, 2002)

hahahaah. well actually ive told many of my friends that i switched, and ive showed them screenshots of macosX and their reactions were quite amazing! especially when i showed them my ipod(10GB) they were all amazed at its capacity and its design, they kept on staring @ it as if it was some kind of alien creature. i even showed them the game in the extras menu of the iPOD; 1 of them borrowed it and spent 2 hours during the physics lesson playing on my ipod .. hahah  ... obviously mac products are not very common here in Greece, but its nice to hear that everyone considers Macs perfect for video editting and graphics design.


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## fryke (Nov 29, 2002)

I remember working in our city's best computer store in 1995 (well, that's my opinion, of course, as i worked there). Shortly after the introduction of Win95, I was helping a customer installing the 'update' on his Compaq PC he bought at our place. While we were configuring like hell, trying everything, disabling this and that hardware, another customer walked in and told me that I was right and that he had much less problems with his new computer now. Customer 1 asked what I had told Customer 2. And I said: "I told him to get a Mac next time." Two grinned. One didn't. (We sold Macs, too, at the time.)


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## Sirtovin (Nov 30, 2002)

I used to work for Office Max here in Florida... and During the Windows 95 upgrade... It was pure hell for users upgrading from a 16 bit OS which was Windows 3.1 and 3.11 (NT was a baby) I remember the panic that came across users who unfortunately could not use their brand new printers because the vendors didn't realize that Windows 95 was looking for 32 bit coding... I remember HP took the brunt of the bashing by the customers... (It took in some cases 3 weeks to 6 months for users to get their printers to work...) (Also many people refused to download the new drivers because A. They didn't have fast connections like now... and B. They didn't know how to use the new internet... It was also the time when Netscape was kicking IE... but that's another story...) I for one at that time was a die hard Wintell PC user who was telling people not to buy Windows 95 if they wanted to use their printer...   Of course I also told those people to hold of 6 months before buying Windows 95... 

I am glad I switched.


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## fryke (Nov 30, 2002)

nostalgy, eh? 

I had a Performa 630 back then. And a PowerBook 180c. And I upgraded the 630 to PowerPC... I was in heaven when I finally kicked that Quadra 840av's ass in Marathon I. 

Reminds me that I should finally reinstall that game and call for our regular "Christmas Carnage" we used to have... 16 hours of network games in a row. Ah...


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## MDLarson (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *I was in heaven when I finally kicked that Quadra 840av's *** in Marathon I. *


I was watching "Kimpossible" this morning (I don't know why), and she was snowboarding.  But guess what was on the bottom of the snowboard?  The Marathon logo!  I only saw it for a second, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was

Anyway, just thought I'd share!


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## hulkaros (Dec 1, 2002)

FINALLY! The war is over with XP, at least for now...  

Anyways, I don't know why exactly but it seems the problem was the Samsung CD-ROM... No matter what: Slave/Master/IDE1/IDE2/Cable Select/etc the problem under XP was there while using the CD-ROM!!!

After swapping it with a Sony CD-ROM... Magic! It worked! No crash, no trouble, nothing! I don't know why this was happening under XP only and with that specific configuration but the problem now is R.I.P.   

The customer is happy, we are happy, case closed!?


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## Jason (Dec 1, 2002)

well its a known fact that XP doesnt work with all hardware... and remember OSX doesnt either


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## hulkaros (Dec 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *a few of my friends seem to run into the same problem and i dont know what i can do 2 help them. what happens is that on win2k or winXP a certain problem occurs and the computer crashes or there might be a black out. next time they turn on their computer a blue screen appears, it runs some tests.(im sorry if my descriptions and very accurate but i cant remember what they said). then a message appears sayin that they should enter windows and fix any problems immediately. the problem is that they dont know what to do in order to continue and enter the windows environment. so they restart the computer and the same blue screen appears and performs the same checks. does any1 know how u could bypass this process and enter windows immediately ? thanx  *



Did they try to press F8 BEFORE the Windows is now starting up screen? If yes, did they try to enter in Safe Mode or even in the last good configuration mode? Do they have an Emergency Disk? The Windows 2000/XP CD-ROMs (which I think they MUST have pirated, aren't they?)? If the Safe Mode will not work tell them to give a shot with the Em/ncy Disk after booting from CDs... Or under XP to try the System Restore... But I don't know why they don't take their PCs to PLAISIO Computers?  

Oh, come on! Tell them to pay a visit at your house and showcase your Mac! This will make them to www.apple.com/switch/ ASAP!


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## hulkaros (Dec 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BuddahBobb _
> *well its a known fact that XP doesnt work with all hardware... and remember OSX doesnt either  *



The other day I was testing some external FireWire boxes at our company (both 3.5" and 5.25") in order to understand which one is the best for us to shell to our customers without problems... 

And guess what? Almost all of those boxes were playing with ANY hard disk one knows but not so with DVDs/CDs/CD-RWs/etc... We found out that out of 10 boxes ONLY 2 were playing with 18/20 devices! 

And this was under Mac OS X.2! Under Win2000 & XP even with drivers installed the things were worst! Some times even the boxes with the hard disks weren't recognised by the computers! And some other times the PCs needed a reboot too... However, when used the USB2 ports of some boxes (only those which had such USB2/FireWire capabilities) things got better on the PC side and almost up to par with Mac OS X.2...

Does anyone else noticed similar behaviors? Please, let us know!


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## Jason (Dec 1, 2002)

ive only tested firewire hard drives on both and both worked *shrugs* 

but i wouldnt be surprised lol


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## orangefunk (Dec 1, 2002)

I had a Win XP machine machine breifly and was impressed at the at OS.

It was not as stable as OS X, but it was alot more stable and better looking than the older versions of Windows.  Hardware install was a cinch, truly plug and play. The GUI was so much nicer and happy looking, especially with the default XP theme and the "bliss" wallpaper.

In the end, I returned it (P4 2.0mhz)  to the store and bought a clearance Quicksilver 867 for the same price.

One thing I noticed about Windows software, is that alot of it has commercials on it. The MP3 player software has banners on it. My browsers had tons of pop-up never experienced on my Mac, then all the banners in all the streaming players.  It's like being in an American high school where Pepsi Co. sponsors everything.


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