# iTunes 5



## kainjow (Sep 7, 2005)

From MacRumors.com:


> Same display, but cleaned up. Search bar. Smart Shuffle feature. Can now organize playlists into folders. Available today from Apple's website. Windows users can sync contact and calendar info with Outlook and Outlook express. Parental controls to restrict songs with explicit lyrics. Album reviews.


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## steven_lufc (Sep 7, 2005)

Any clue as to when it will be available to download??


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## steven_lufc (Sep 7, 2005)

My mistake, just checked VT and it's there


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## kainjow (Sep 7, 2005)

Yep it's up. Nothing earth shattering, just an updated UI (sort of ugly in my opinion) and the ability to have a playlist hierarchy with folders.


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## Gig' (Sep 7, 2005)

and the apple server must be crowded very slow dload


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## CreativeEye (Sep 7, 2005)

i'm using it now - 

its very slick - no uneccesary 'metal' bars. 

nice new display too - (where you see track times etc) although it looks narrower at the top than bottom...

new icons for movies.

you can now control the 'random' features!

search is great too - just like the search in mail.app - you do the search and then set the criteria - all - music - podcasts etc etc.

i dont like the new placement of the volume control...

pretty nice all in all.

will there be a ipod colour update so that it now has the same features as the nano?


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## kainjow (Sep 7, 2005)

Ugh.. so iTunes 5 supports folders for playlists, but my iPod photo doesn't. And since it's running the latest iPod 1.2 software, there appears to be no update coming. When you update your iPod and you have folders in your playlists in iTunes, it just makes one big list on your iPod - ugly.


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## Convert (Sep 7, 2005)

parb.johal@ante said:
			
		

> will there be a ipod colour update so that it now has the same features as the nano?



What features?


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## chevy (Sep 7, 2005)

kainjow said:
			
		

> From MacRumors.com:



I don't find the contact/calendar sync on W-XP !


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## Mikuro (Sep 7, 2005)

Haven't installed it yet. Not sure I want to.

Can someone explain WHAT is different about the "new" search bar? Everything just says "it lets you find stuff FAST! z0mg!!!!11" Looks just like the old one. Sounds just like the old one. What's new? (I really, really hate marketing....)

As for the new look, I am heartbroken. It looks just like Mail 2.  I had hoped everyone responsible for that abomination was fired, but I guess not. The good part is that the layout is tighter; there's no border at the left and right anymore (which is arguably bad, but I think I like it). The bad part is that everything looks like non-standard crap now. A FOURTH window type?!? The third was overdoing it, and now they create a fourth with no functional differences at all? C'mon, give it a rest already, Apple. The playlist list is also non-standard. There's no reason for it to be all blue and....weird. Bah.

Well, I was never a fan of brushed metal to begin with. I guess I should be glad to see it go. But I'd be happier if it weren't replaced by something so flat-out ugly.

</whining>

Edit: Oh! But I am very glad that they named it 5.0. If they'd called it 4.10 I'd be bitching about that all day. Yay for mathematically sensical version numbering!


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## Convert (Sep 7, 2005)

Window types?

What is that?

Installing iTunes as we speak, I'll answer your questions shortly.


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## CreativeEye (Sep 7, 2005)

it has some sort of a world closck that sounds a lot like the dashboard clock...

it has a 'lock' - so that you can lock the ipod with a 4 digit code... that would be nice to have on my ipod colour...


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## kainjow (Sep 7, 2005)

Here's a screenshot


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## CreativeEye (Sep 7, 2005)

the new search bar now lets you filter your search better.

in previous itunes you did a search for 'beatles' and it found everything with that word in it - now you can select 'podcast' 'all' 'songs' - etc etc - to filter the search better.

thats good.

*edit* above poster just posted a better explanation! an actual pic!


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## Mikuro (Sep 7, 2005)

Convert said:
			
		

> Window types?
> 
> What is that?


I mean these:
1. Standard aqua, as in, say, TextEdit and most apps.
2. Brushed metal, as in Safari, iTunes 4, QuickTime, etc.
3. "Unified" style, seen in Mail 2 and Xcode.
4. The new iTunes window, which is a cross between brushed metal and the unified look (which itself was supposed to be a cross between brushed metal and aqua....)

_When will the madness end??!?!_ 

Not that big a deal, I guess, but as a developer I'm getting very, very sick of Apple's fickle fashion sense. Software design shouldn't be about fashion, but lately it seems like that's all Apple cares about.

Okay, I think I've got all my whining out of my system.


Edit: The posting here is so fast I can't keep up. THANKS for the explanation of the search bar, guys! That IS an improvement.


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## fryke (Sep 7, 2005)

It's terrible. I'm talking about the UI, of course. It looks as if they've tried to find something that could better be reproduced in Windows. Ugly. Really. I don't know how to put it. They took what they've done wrong in Mail.app 2.0, took what's been wrong with iTunes for Windows and voilà: Its bastard, iTunes 5. Hooray.


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## CreativeEye (Sep 7, 2005)

The management of folders from iTunes to iPod is non-existent.

You create a folder - stick in a few playlists - and basically they show up as individual playlists on the iPod rather than another 'level'.

I think there'll be an iPod update soon - that'll add some of the cooler functionality / new features of the iPod nano to the iPod photo - and maybe sort out folder management...

Also - I think the new GUI is good. It's got rid of a a lot of the clutter from the rpevious verion. They've managed to steal back screen space by doing away with the metal inteface separators. I do agree that it looks more Windows-esque - but it's still got Apple written all over it.


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## Veljo (Sep 7, 2005)

Apple honestly need to bring some kind of consistency back to their apps. The fact that every app looks different is getting ridiculous.

Put simply, brushed metal has to go. So does iTunes 5. In my opinion all apps should have the unified look, with toolbar icons without text such as the toolbar in Adium. That's what makes Macs look good. This is just shocking.

iTunes is UGLY.

Dare I say it, Apple are starting to remind me of Microsoft.

P.S. Who has the purple iTunes 3 icon? If you do send it to me


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## cfleck (Sep 7, 2005)

Or, the blue one!  It was purty.


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## symphonix (Sep 7, 2005)

While I like most of what they've done with the new version, there are a few UI blunders, most notably the volume control slider, which is taking up space that could better be used by the iTunes LCD-style display.

The volume control is just a slider. No label, nothing to make it clear that its a volume control. Surely they could have made it more tactile, perhaps make it look more like a volume control on a hi-fi component? Or better yet, just leave it alone or remove it altogether - I'm sure this volume control is redundant anyway, except for setting the level of your music relative to the sound level in a game, for instance. I actually thought it would be a good idea if the "Customise Toolbar" function worked similarly to Mail.app, letting us get rid of the bits we don't want.

As for the fourth window appearance ... well, it really makes me wonder what they were thinking. When I first saw it I had the completely irrational thought that maybe they were aiming for the only interface that would look good in Windows Vista, which has a habit of turning even the cleanest looking applications into a murky mess. More likely, though, they just wanted to try a few new ideas out and got carried away.

Aside from the UI, though, I'm pretty happy with the updates.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Sep 7, 2005)

The response speed of iTunes is now absolutely wonderful.  iTunes 5 blows away iTunes 4 on my machine.  Nice update.


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## kainjow (Sep 7, 2005)

I agree, the UI does feel snappier.


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## HateEternal (Sep 7, 2005)

The window is basically unified with a different color...


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## smithy (Sep 7, 2005)

Has anyone in looked in the itunes.rsc file!? There is a icon of the new flash based ipod mini. There is a iPod coloured one, and a black U2-ish looking one though the click wheel is grey. They both have coloured screens too.

EDIT: Haha i just realised the released the ipod Nano. Man i need to read this forum more.


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## Veljo (Sep 7, 2005)

Post em up.


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## sirstaunch (Sep 7, 2005)

iTunes 5 is much more snappier on my machine at present anyhow, AND STILL NO AUSSIE STORE!!!!!! 

I can't even podcast until we have it, come one ARIA's you won against Kazaa, now give us the honest way, stop messing about.....


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## mindbend (Sep 7, 2005)

The search/filter response is faster on my slow iBook, but the GUI is still slow (OS X's problem on old boxes, not iTunes).

I'm ambivalent to the overall look. Just like I've always been toward brushed  metal. In general I accept it because it's very clean and functional and the bland grays do not fight with other intra-page design. I actually like this look the best over brushed metal and "Mail". Who knows, maybe the iTunes 5 style IS the new look that will migrate to the other apps. I have no problem with that as I agree that it would be nice to be more consistent.

I don't know that this warrants a 5.0 number, but whatever.


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## VigilantX (Sep 7, 2005)

You people are really irritating to read. I remember now why I stopped coming in here under my old name GroundZeroX. You guys are always looking to complain about something really stupid. "We hate brushed metal! Apple must eliminate all signs of brushed metal" So Apple CLEARLY starts to show signs of removing brushed metal and we hear "OMG Apple is so stupid, they have a new GUI, and we are going to be stupid and call it a fourth one even though it is basically a gray unified look, lets all make stupid comments now" Apple is probably going to end up putting everything in a unified/Aqua style thing and kill off Brushed Metal. But hey, instead of saying stuff that makes sense. Lets all vent, and make up really ridiculous comments.

I just want to say one thing. When Brushed Metal first came out, it was God Awful. I personally absolutely hated it with a passion. But through steady and careful revisions, and etc Brushed Metal turned into something that I actually came to like. I am sure that is arguable, but let me say this. Considering this is a reasonably new start on a new type of interface that is CLEARLY going to end up replacing Metal in all Metal apps, it looks a lot better then the first Quicktime 4, and I think with more improvements it will be great.

I have my own complaint about it. I don't like the volume to the right, but it definitely not the end of the world. Some things irk me about it, but I see it as a great change. Because as of Leopard, everything Metal will probably take this new interface, and I am all for it. I'm kinda tired of Metal personally. It makes everything it is on seem kind of "heavy" in a way. I don't know how to explain it. 

Anyway, you group of whiners have got me to the point where I will probably leave for another like 6 months. No matter what Apple does, you guys will sit around and complain.


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## texanpenguin (Sep 8, 2005)

VigilantX: it's one thing to say that it's stupid to complain about inconsistency. It's another thing to just sit idly by and let the company that sets an interface example for all other developers just flagrantly ignore their OWN HIG time and time again!

I feel that the reason for the new look is almost certainly due to PC users. In Windows, iTunes needs to render the brushed metal look itself (it's not embedded in the OS; though I've seen things in the skinning world which imply that it's rendered by iTunes on OS X too). A simple gradient is a whole lot easier to render internally than a gradient with a noise-map/filter over the top. Should mean interface responsiveness improves on both platforms.

So I understand it, but don't excuse it. I think it's one thing to introduce this new unified menu bar appearance in Tiger: it's clearly directly referencing Aqua; and evolution. I don't understand why it isn't implemented in EVERY Aqua window in Tiger, though. I don't mind evolution. I don't like segregation and inconsistency.

I don't even mind if brushed metal is replaced with this new style, and iChat windows lose those little bits of metal along the edges, Address Book too, but release it as an update to EVERY BRUSHED METAL PROGRAM (probably in an OS update 10.4.3?): iChat, Safari, Address Book, everything. Just replace the Brushed Metal texturing APIs completely, or whatever. I don't mind change, just not inconsistency.


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## Quicksilver (Sep 8, 2005)

Convert said:
			
		

> What features?




I think he means the application features in the iPod OS. if this is true id say that yes the software/OS "Features" will be the same?


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## Quicksilver (Sep 8, 2005)

sirstaunch said:
			
		

> AND STILL NO AUSSIE STORE!!!!!!



Yeah! what's up with that? and nearly everywhere you go people have an iPods waiting for the iTMS. the trains and cities are full of them.

.


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## smithy (Sep 8, 2005)

I reckon! Everyone has iPods in Brisbane, everywhere you go your bound to see one. Also there is still no iPhoto photo album purchasing from Australia. I mean Australia is getting pretty much filled up with Apple hardware, when are they going to support us.


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## fryke (Sep 8, 2005)

I must agree that the interface is much snappier. But those window edges... Really: Yet another new look simply wasn't needed. :/


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## jonparadise (Sep 8, 2005)

I've just downloaded the Windows version at work, and one thing I've noticed is that it's alot more 'Mac like' than the previous version. With the new interface and an Aqua scroll bar down the side rather than the standard Windows one.

It's probably a very good way of getting Windows users more comfortable with the Mac look and feel.


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## CreativeEye (Sep 8, 2005)

i think jonparadise has hit the nail on the head.

it looks like apple have melded a few interface designs together from OSX - and in my eyes they've made a very effiecient, elegant design the very fact that windows users will now get a very slick looking itunes that has Apple OS X written all over it rather than Microsoft Windows means they'll get a better taste of what OS X is all about. It's all part of the 'switch' mentallity. If there is a halo effect of the ipod - then itunes is the bridge that unifies the two platforms.

the only problem i have is that the corners of itunes are neither here nor there - are they curved or not? if the interface looks very AppleMail.app =- then put a little more curve on the corners! it feels as though apples various software departments need to sit down - look at the elements from each app that work - unify those elements and then go back and re-jig the apps.

...why - if safari only has three diagional lines in its bottom left corner to 'pull out' the window' does itunes 5 need four?... that sort of thing irks me... its the tiny elements that need nailing that'll bring it all together.

also - just to get back to what i said about a software update for ipod photos... the new ipod nano has a few neat features that i'd like on my 40gb. amongst them -

1) the ability to sync to outlook for contacts etc on a windows machine
2) world clock! - 
3) a screen lock - that requires a user defined pin number to unlock the ipod.


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## Gig' (Sep 8, 2005)

sirstaunch said:
			
		

> iTunes 5 is much more snappier on my machine at present anyhow, AND STILL NO AUSSIE STORE!!!!!!
> 
> .....



http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=12572
http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/08/itunes-australia-labels-cx_pak_0908ipod_print.html

at last ?


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## CreativeEye (Sep 8, 2005)

i've just found that ALL of my podcasts have been put into my main library! 

what gives? i dont want them there!!! now they get played when i dont want them o... i'll have to either delete them or go through and uncheck every single one!

so.. when is iTunes 5.0.1 coming out...


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## VigilantX (Sep 8, 2005)

TexanPenguin: So, just to make sure I'm getting this straight. To sit around in a board and complain all day in the boards and complain like a bunch of 14 year old school girls about every thing, and anything Apple does is taking an active role in ensuring Apple is on the right track? Wow, My eyes have been opened! I didn't realizing whining about a problem that is slowly getting fixed was so powerful!

You've obviously never worked on software before. I believe that all the iApps and anything with brushed metal WILL be transfered over to the new look, and this change had absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all, and to think so is naive. The new look is essentially a grayed version of the Mail.app, which ISN'T on Windows, so there goes that excuse. It is for useability. Designing user interfaces that are new, yet still familiar takes time, and needs to be fine tuned to make sure that it isn't done purely for eye candy and doesn't hurt your eyes after extended use. Apple is going to do it, but when they are ready, and no amount of whining on your part, or anyone elses will change that. I know that you guys will pat yourselves on the back when you see everything else change over, thinking that maybe your constant complaining did something, but I assure you guys that that isn't the case.

On that note, I'm leaving you guys. I've visited your world once again in a search for intelligent life, and found that there isn't any. Just a constant need for diapers and bottles for each and every one of you babies.


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## CreativeEye (Sep 8, 2005)

VigilantX - i have no idea who you are - but if anyone has thrown their dummy out of the pram and had a good cry - its you.

you've lambasted others for complaining about itunes 5 - yet you are complaining about the complainers! the irony you carry on your shoulders must be quite a burden.

good day to you sir.


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## fryke (Sep 8, 2005)

VigilantX: Read the board rules about flamewars.

On the _subject_ you're talking about: "Designing user interfaces that are new, yet still familiar takes time, and needs to be fine tuned to make sure that it isn't done purely for eye candy and doesn't hurt your eyes after extended use." - I agree, and I think most of the "complainers" here do, too. But we don't need the different work-stages to be released as final products! Mail.app looks like an interface in its alpha stages - and so does iTunes 5. What we - rightfully, in my opinion - expect from Apple is _finished_ designs that surprise us in their simplicity and beauty. Consistency is one of the key features Apple has put in their UI design work, but ever since Brushed Metal came along, Apple has failed its own goals and guidelines. They want other developers to adhere to their standards, yet they themselves break their own laws time and again. That _is_ a point where I expect people on Mac fora to express their negative feelings.

Your last post violated, I think, more than three points in the board rules, so I guess your last disappearance probably involved a ban. Again I urge you: Read the rules carefully, should you ever decide to come back.


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## Mikuro (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm sure VigilantX is right that Apple is moving towards replacing brushed metal altogether with this new look. And I'm all in favor of that. But this is not the way to do it.

Fryke hit the nail on the head.

All I ask for is a little consistency. Interface design isn't about fashion. Pick a standard and stick with it. Revising it is fine; they changed the Aqua look significantly from Jaguar to Panther, and that was great, because the change was all across the board, so it didn't sacrifice consistency. They've also changed brushed metal over the years, but again, these were changes, not arbitrary additions, so it was still consistent. But it's starting to feel like Apple's just adding new styles to match each new pair of shoes their interface designers buy.

The big problem is that Apple keeps doing these baby steps. It seems like they want to make a big transition, ditching aqua for unified and metal for...dark-unified. That'd be great, actually; it would create _greater_ consistency, since the two unified types are functionally identical and have more or less the same visual style. (And after five years, I think aqua is due for replacement anyway.) But if they're going to do that, then they should just DO IT. Replace aqua, and replace metal. Don't add the new looks and then slooooowly phase out the old ones. That just creates a giant inconsistent mess, especially when you consider third-party apps. The way they're transitioning, we'll be seeing these four window types for many, many years, because they're not going to just rip them out of the system, and third-party developers will keep using them as long as they're there.

If Apple wants to change things, that's great. But they shouldn't be adding more and more and more on every whim. We don't need a dozen button types, we don't need four (or even three) window types, and we don't need umpteen kinds of lists than all behave sliiiiightly differently. It's a UI nightmare. Can you imagine if, when they introduced OS 8, they ADDED the platinum look instead of replacing the old one?

As I've said before, I don't like the unified look. Don't like it in Mail, don't like the new form in iTunes. I think they're breathtakingly ugly. But that's really beside the point. If Apple wants to transition from aqua/metal to these two new types, then I say GREAT. But JUST DO IT; don't throw consistency out the window for no good reason.


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## wiz (Sep 8, 2005)

ok... sheesh... consisitance is all that important ok.. *sigh*.. now here;s the bigger issue... the new iTunes is much slower than the older one... specially when navigating songs etc... how horrible.


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## Porce (Sep 8, 2005)

How so?  It seems faster to me.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Sep 8, 2005)

Faster and much more responsive here, as well.


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## lilbandit (Sep 8, 2005)

mine seems to fly along now..


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## fryke (Sep 8, 2005)

Same here, it's quick.


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## TommyWillB (Sep 8, 2005)

kainjow said:
			
		

> Ugh.. so iTunes 5 supports folders for playlists, but my iPod photo doesn't. And since it's running the latest iPod 1.2 software, there appears to be no update coming. When you update your iPod and you have folders in your playlists in iTunes, it just makes one big list on your iPod - ugly.


Yeah... That was the main reason I switched from iPhoto to iVeiw Media Pro.

Not sure if I could ever go back.


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## fjdouse (Sep 8, 2005)

VigilantX, without wanting to violate any rules here, and with homage to Battlestar Galactica...   frak off.

I'm a bit vexed about the growing inconsistancy on my desktop, I keep telling myself...

..TRANSITIONS..

perhaps we are seeing that here with iTunes 5, I love brushed metal, always have, would like to have the whole GUI like it, but IF this a taste of things to come, the interface of iTunes 5 is - I think - spot on.  If the whole shibang looked that way, I'd be very, very, very happy indeed.  I just don't like the inconsistancies as they stand NOW.


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## wiz (Sep 8, 2005)

hmm you guys say it's fast... hmm.. shoot.. then i think it's just slow in 10.2.8.... darn it!

and please.. inconsistancies... in desktop look... has made my mac experience all the less boring.. haha.. c'mon stop complaining...


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## symphonix (Sep 8, 2005)

*VigilantX* - I've always pictured Mac users, including myself, as being like Garth from Wayne's World, in the scene where the TV exec asks him "How do you feel about some changes to the show?" and he replies "We fear change". Apple's fans are always determined to prove that the way Apple does it is the best way, and when Apple changes things, we tend to go a little crazy. Its OK, after the first few hours of picking faults we usually notice all the good things and feel allright again.

Now that I've had a chance to really sit down with the new iTunes, I'd have to say that my angst has softened. The overall look is clean, though I still think the volume control is a bit of like the gorilla in the room. Its awkward, and looks out of place.

The UI is _much_ snappier, letting me jump from song to song and scroll and search faster than before. I think iTunes 5 has "Teh Snappy", the holy grail of Mac development. 

I like the redesign of the LCD-like display, so that you can now see title and artist, elapsed time and remaining time all at once, rather than clicking through these as on iTunes 4.

The parental controls are a good idea, too, though I really only use this panel to turn off podcasts and the music store. 

I'm not sure I like the new sound-scrubbing thing, which gives the effect of a CD-player's search function. It might help to find those hidden tracks where there's five minutes of silence, or jump to that one guitar solo you want to practice, so I think I'll come to like it in time. Oddly, this seems to be a feature of QuickTime, as it does the same in QuickTime Player now as well, and I don't remember it ever doing that before.


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## ora (Sep 8, 2005)

VigilantX said:
			
		

> Anyway, you group of whiners have got me to the point where I will probably leave for another like 6 months. No matter what Apple does, you guys will sit around and complain.


And later...


			
				VigilantX said:
			
		

> On that note, I'm leaving you guys. I've visited your world once again in a search for intelligent life, and found that there isn't any. Just a constant need for diapers and bottles for each and every one of you babies.



I can't help it, the wording is so close: 

From the board rules:



			
				Board Rules said:
			
		

> Types of Posters We'd Like To Discourage
> 
> Drama Queen: Like all message boards, there is always a constant turnover in the number of people that frequent the macosx.com board. Most people, after having decided they no longer wish to visit the board, make no announcement about their departure. Some individuals have a penchant for making long boisterous departures from the message board that is clearly worthy of an Emmy award - "Goodbye cruel message board" is the classic remark. Because most of them seek to harm the morale of the board, Drama Queens are regarded as a nuisance. What also makes them an even greater pain is their tendency to repeatedly coming back for a series encore performances. * "I came back to see if you people changed your ways, but I see things are the same as always - so once again, farewell cruel message board." *


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## CreativeEye (Sep 8, 2005)

as much as everything has more of a 'spring'

i have trouble connecting to the store - it take a lot longer than it did before...


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## VigilantX (Sep 8, 2005)

I apologize for being the official "Drama Queen" ;-)

I came to the board hoping for some good discussions on the direcction it is taking, and when all I saw stuff was "UGLY" over and over again and comments about it being a FOURTH new interface style, when it is clearly just gray Unified, it really gets under my skin. 

I have a lot more experience with dealing with customers, and usability then most, because I actually work in customer service, and I go on site, and help people learn how to use their macs on site. I can tell you with certainty that if Apple would have switched everything very very quickly, it would have confused a lot of customers. The average consumer doesn't sit around noticing whats Brushed Metal and whats Aqua, or why one should be used instead of another. If something very very quickly changes everything though, in a drastic way, it confuses them, and they would probably call tech support asking why their machine is CLEARLY not working right, and when you tell them that it is the way it is suppose to be, they will continue to tell you symptoms to make VERY VERY sure that their machine isn't about to die. 

Another thing to keep in mind, iTunes is probably not written in either Carbon or Cocoa. It is probably written in a very well optimized third party framework to make coding for both windows and mac much easier, so the code may just simply not be there, and may take time for the new look and stuff to be adjusted to every single application and make sure that it has no bugs, and everything else, that it would quite literally slow down the launch for many products for quite some time, till EVERYTHING was ready for it.

It is one thing to change the way the application bar thing where you minimize, close, and maximize, because all of those conform to a single guideline, but in a matter liek this, it is a totally different matter. To make a change with this many variables, it can end up being a pain if not transitioned right. 

Once again, sorry about before. Lets all just get along.


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## Satcomer (Sep 8, 2005)

The big one is the new options on the Get Info, like Lyrics. I sure hope a good Apple Script comes out to download said lyric to your intended designation.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Sep 8, 2005)

I like the new look, and the lyrics option -- but it's just another tag I gotta fill in to perfection... ugh.  Still, if my iPod ever supports it, it'll sure help when I'm belting it out horribly in my car... at least I can sing the _right_ words.

I like this new look -- it's pretty damn slick... just imagine Safari with this new look!


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## RGrphc2 (Sep 8, 2005)

i'll admit that i didn't like the look at first, i think it's cause i was so used to the brushed metal, which everyone had a problem with when Panther came out, cause everyone was used to Aqua which was in 10, 10.1 and Jaguar.

It's a sleek smoothed out UI that got rid of the fat, no excess space and like 





> ElDiabloConCaca
> it's pretty damn slick... just imagine Safari with this new look!


 just imagine safari like that, no fat nice and trim, just like a Tiger


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## gwynarion (Sep 8, 2005)

I never hated brushed metal the way some people did, nor did I think it was great.  The only application I ever thought it was well done in was Safari, mainly because there was a metal piece at the top and one at the bottom without any down the sides and without curved corners at the bottom.  I like the design found in the newest version of Mail because it looks like an updated, smoothed, more elegant Aqua with some elements of the Safari design to it.  I like a lot of the new iTunes interface because it reminds me of Mail and Safari.  I do wish that the top corners were a bit more rounded and the bottom ones not at all, though.

What I would like to see from Apple is two window styles from Apple, both of them looking like Mail/iTunes.  I'd like to see one with the lighter colour scheme found in Mail and one with the darker scheme of iTunes.  Then I'd like to see you be able to choose one or the other from System Preferences to take effect across the whole system, kind of like you can choose either the red/yellow/green pips or the graphite ones.


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## gwynarion (Sep 8, 2005)

Oh, and I'd love it if they eliminated drawers entirely in favor of the kind of pane you see at the side of Mail and iTunes.


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## symphonix (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Agreed. I've never really liked drawers. They're okay, but they're not very elegant.



> Another thing to keep in mind, iTunes is probably not written in either Carbon or Cocoa.



Just FYI, its written in Cocoa & Objective-C. The proof of this can be found by checking out the resource files for iTunes.


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## VigilantX (Sep 9, 2005)

I take back what I originally said. I thought I remembered trying to open iTunes up like a package and mess around with things, and seeing that it wasn't a package at all, and assuming that it was probably some sort of cross platform thing.

I stand corrected. They are probably just keeping the cocoa for windows thing up to date, and using this as a way to get everything up to date. I stand corrected.


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## Mikuro (Sep 9, 2005)

I've installed iTunes 5 now. My initial thoughts and impressions:

It seems like they've greatly improved Party Shuffle's selection routine. I haven't seen ANY duplicates in the list after many refreshes, even when I used a relatively small playlist as a source. I used to get the same song half a dozen times quite often with smaller playlists, making Party Shuffle pretty much worthless for those lists. (However, when the "Play higher rated songs more often" box is checked, I still see dups. But not as many as before, anyway.)

I haven't played around with their new randomization options. For those who haven't seen it and want a better description than Apple offers, it lets you choose how often you'll see songs by the same artist in succession. By default it's completely random, just like before.

I like the new track display. The main functional difference I see is that it displays both the elapsed time AND remaining time, whereas in the old version you could only display one at a time. I'm not crazy about the new appearance, but...eh. The shading has changed to match Tiger's new style (shown in the menu bar and the new button types seen in....er, I can't think of any examples at the moment), and I appreciate that.

I actually find the new interface to be slower, in contrast to what others have said. The scrolling text in the track display is often choppy, and scrolling is....odd. It seems to get slower and choppier the more you scroll, and the only way to get it back to normal speed is to quit+reload. It gets _incredibly_ slow after a while. Clearly there are some bugs at work here. This is a big problem.

Maybe I'm crazy, but....didn't iTunes used to use the system-wide Scripts menu? It used to be that it would only create its own Scripts menu (to the left of the Help menu) if the user didn't have the system-wide menu enabled. If it was enabled, iTunes would just use that.....Right? Or am I crazy? 

The new interface still seems like a hack to me. I actually like the new window style more than metal or unified (it's not exactly like a darker unified, it's just very similar). But the main window as a whole still feels like a hack. The way the two lists jut up against each other just doesn't sit right with me. I know I'm nitpicking (see my rank; it's what I do), but I expect something more refined from Apple. I think the entire idea of using gradients is a little ill-conceived, and I always have. It just seems so silly and Windows-esque to me. But I'll get used to it.

All in all, I....don't know if I can recommend the update. That scrolling issue is a biggie, although it seems like it's not affecting most people.


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## Lt Major Burns (Sep 9, 2005)

the problem with update is you have to update eventually. personally think the new UI is shoddy - it no longer looks designed. it looks thrown together. that volume control is hideous, and the fact that nothing has a border is terrible.  this makes brushed steel look like the Venus de Milo.


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## Porce (Sep 9, 2005)

iTunes 5 uses Gracenote CDDB when importing CD's.  I was getting tired of entering all of the track names, artists, albums in when importing, so this is a great addition.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Sep 10, 2005)

It's always used the CDDB... I've never had to manually enter track information when importing CDs.  It's been an option in the preferences since as far back as I can remember.


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## Gig' (Sep 10, 2005)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> It's always used the CDDB... I've never had to manually enter track information when importing CDs.  It's been an option in the preferences since as far back as I can remember.



You're correct iTunes4 had in general pref the  "Connect to internet when needed" options, but can't find it in 5.0 so sounds like it's been integrated due to use of web related functions, ITMS,Podcast and so on, thus access to CDDB is now an automatic feature.


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## kinc (Sep 10, 2005)

Why did iTunes 5 import game sounds?


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## TommyWillB (Sep 10, 2005)

I vote for VigiantX's (a.k.a. GroundZeroX) banishment from the island...


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## CreativeEye (Sep 10, 2005)

I've just noticed something...

The 'curved' corners on iTunes... are the exact match for the curves on the windows in... *drumroll* ... windows vista!

obviously it's a basic 3 pixel 'cut away' to give the illusion of a curve, but i wonder whether it was a conscience decision? regardless - the curves of 'metal' are less than subtle - metal isn't the most efficient design / solution. as we see more features being packed into the OS space will become a premium. 

microsoft (in their race to 'catch up') have fallen victim to the same thing - vista windows sport thick outlines - title bars / nav bars are not put to best use and take up a good deal of room at the sacrife of the presented information. information panels (i wonder if these can be turned off...) then go on to take up even more room!... vista is basically the baby steps that aqua took in its infancy - and is trying  to crow-bar in the 'clean lines' of metal... needless to say - apples eye candy served to be useful as well as entertain...

at least as mac users we have gone through the eye candy experimentations and are now getting streamlined, back to a purer, cleaner design...


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## VigilantX (Sep 10, 2005)

Wow, I apologized, and TommyWillB is wanting to banish me. Hmmmmm.....

I feel so welcome here.


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## Satcomer (Sep 11, 2005)

Mikuro said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm crazy, but....didn't iTunes used to use the system-wide Scripts menu? It used to be that it would only create its own Scripts menu (to the left of the Help menu) if the user didn't have the system-wide menu enabled. If it was enabled, iTunes would just use that.....Right? Or am I crazy?



I think you are crazy. I have always had System wide scripts (along with the obscure Folder Actions scripts). iTunes has always had it's own Scripts menu, hence the folder ~/Library/iTunes/Scripts.


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## Lt Major Burns (Sep 11, 2005)

parb.johal@ante said:
			
		

> I've just noticed something...
> 
> The 'curved' corners on iTunes... are the exact match for the curves on the windows in... *drumroll* ... windows vista!
> 
> ...


 
yes, it's streamlined, but it's lost a level of intuitivity - there used to be defined lines between all the boxes - itunes was never the most simple of interfaces (it's a complex beast, ID3 tags), but now it's just messy. i have only updated to 5 on the dell, and now i'm seriously thinking of not downloading for my mac. - i just really hate the interface.  metal was at least a consistent UI. 

aqua was a bit slap dash IMO, but this new one is ridiculously so - there's a title bar, with _five_ different interface styles in it. (buttons, volume, the new square display, rounded search box, and burn/browse), all of which isn't really "attached" to the rest of iTunes.  

in 4, the title bar was the top of itunes, not a seperate entity, and the interface was smooth (round buttons+volume, rounded display, rounded search, and the browse button which looked like the play button (symmetry)), and overall, pretty symetrical. now, it's just a mess.

when you have the search bar up, why is it 3 pixels bigger than the title for the source list?  

why when you are browsing, is there a grab bar for resizing, when nothing else has this?

why are 3 of the buttons panther style, and the display tiger style? and then the rest of the buttons (the bottom ones) different again? (these always were, but it did look like a stereo, now it doesn't)

alos, why do we still have a 5 year old visualization?


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## Decado (Sep 11, 2005)

ok. a few deatails should be looked into, and a few pixels should be redesigned, but all in all i like it a lot.
I would REALLY like finder to take this form; would be nice to get rid of the borders. And the bottom-bar could be optional just like in Safari.

back to iTunes:
It took a long tome to get from version 4.0 to version 5.0. and a drastically new look like this should be a .0-update. before version 6.0 is out leopard will probably be out and, probably, all metal applications will have this theme.

why: because of the coming rsolution independant OSX. a gradient theme would be much less hard/heavy to adapt to that type of technology/format.


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## CreativeEye (Sep 11, 2005)

i see it as a first iteration of a new streamlined design.

if you look at itunes 5 in its minimised state - it all works - and its also great to see the volume control back below the action buttons!

the search bar is the exact same height as the bookmarks bar in safari - the two function in almost the same way (btw - a while ago i sent feedback to apple asking for a bookmarks bar in itunes music store, as well as a normal bookmarks list - still hoping!) - so i can imagine thats why its as high as it is. if anything - the search bars that appear in mail / finder windows once a search is started should be bought into line with the bar in itunes as currently, its a better use of space.

the type size in the search bar could certainly be made smaller (the same size as the title 'Source' which would make the bar narrower without losing any legibility. so there really is no reason why it shouldnt be as high as the title bar for the source list.

the grab for the source list is now that same as the grab in mail.app's mailboxes list, granted - this won't help windows users to find it very easily. if the grab bar for 'browse' was handled the same way it would have been a bad use of space. once the  'browse' button is selected - it should remain highlighted...

i think its unfair to compare the buttons to the display - the display by its nature will always look...well... different...

the only issues i have with itunes 5 are the volume controller - its like they forgot to put it in and then hoofed it on on the 6th... also - i agree with you - those buttons along the bottom are odd - although i think now they do resemble the buttons on my home hi-fi more!

visualisations really could do with a refresh... but i can imagine that they are not as high a priority with apple - as there are so many being developed independently.

the modular design of it works - and i really like the new look.

i'm looking forward to iPhoto taking on this new look...


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## Decado (Sep 11, 2005)

oh, and video-playback in itunes seem much more consistent now. i have a lot of music videos that i have added to iTunes, and before i never really could tell what was going to happen when i clicked them, but now, it they would just add quicktimes full screen playback controls to itunes, i would add all my mpg-files to itunes.


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## guapagirl (Sep 11, 2005)

I've just downloaded it via my software update, and my whole library has disappeared!  Well it's in my music folder, but not in itunes itself!  Is it just me or has this happened to some one else?

eta:  If I click on a track in the music folder it comes up and plays on itunes.  Am I gonna have to import all my music this way?


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## bobw (Sep 11, 2005)

This is from MacFixIt;

Entire library lost MacFixIt reader Vinko Tsui is one of the few readers who experienced a loss of his entire music library after updating to iTunes 5.0. This problem is unfrequent, though it has occurred with previous iTunes updates, and underscores the importance of backing up your iTunes music library.

Vinko writes:

"I just updated iTunes and after restarting and starting iTunes, all my songs and playlist are gone. It looks like iTunes 5 had created a brand new library for itself.

In other cases, the old Library is simply moved to a different folder, which must be re-added to the iTunes 5.0 library. One reader writes:

"It appears that iTunes 5 have backed up my iTunes 4 Library into a folder called 'Previous iTunes Libraries.' In this folder I found a file 'iTunes Library 2005-9-8.'

"I then navigate to the 'iTunes Music' folder within the ~/Music/iTunes folder. To my surprise, I found many, if not all, my previous music.

"The only way I can find to get my music back into iTunes was to select the "Add to Library..." menu item and choose the "iTunes" folder within my Music folder.

"It appears that I have lost all my previous Playlist and ratings for my songs. This is very disappointing, especially when there did not seem to be a warning about this behavior prior to my upgrade."


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## guapagirl (Sep 11, 2005)

... I think I'm having a panic  attack!


Can I sync my I pod into the new itunes? (please say yes and I'll loveyou forever!)

eta  I don't seem to be able to 'add' my itunes folder to the library


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## bobw (Sep 11, 2005)

From MacFixIt;

 iPod not recognized MacFixIt reader Richard reports that his iPod is no longer recognized by iTunes after the update:

 "As soon as I upgraded iTunes to version 5 I was unable to upload or communicate with my iPod Mini. I have iPod OS 1.4 on the iPod. Every time I plug it in the do not disconnect symbol comes up. In iTunes the iPod does seem to exist."

 In some cases this issue can be solved by re-applying the most recent iPod updater, or resetting your iPod.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61937


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## guapagirl (Sep 11, 2005)

Thanks for your help Bob.  I'm worried about plugging my ipod in now though, because it may sync with itunes 5 which has nothing!  

Do you think I could trash I tunes 5 and get the old one back?

Oh crap!  I'm gonna have to call Dr mac! :?


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## texanpenguin (Sep 12, 2005)

Guapagirl: download a program such as iPodRip which will allow you to sync from the iPod back into iTunes.


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## fryke (Sep 12, 2005)

Hm. Updating to iTunes 5 didn't get rid of my music or settings. Attaching my iPod did not cause any trouble at all. Everything just worked fine. Cool.


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## kainjow (Sep 12, 2005)

bobw said:
			
		

> This is from MacFixIt;
> 
> Entire library lost MacFixIt reader Vinko Tsui is one of the few readers who experienced a loss of his entire music library after updating to iTunes 5.0. This problem is unfrequent, though it has occurred with previous iTunes updates, and underscores the importance of backing up your iTunes music library.
> 
> ...


Apple needs to find a way to modify the MP3/AAC specs and embed the ratings/playing count/etc meta data directly into the song. There's gotta be space available in the file format specs for custom data....


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## fryke (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't think that'd be right, somehow, seeing that these are not properties of the song, but rather opinions of the user. I think it's quite correct as is. Only: There shouldn't be those nasty accidents that seem to happen to some people...


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## dust541 (Sep 21, 2005)

IS ANYONE HAVING THE PROBLEM OF IMPORTING FROM CD'S? I stick in a purchased cd and hit the import cd button. it looks like it's importing but nothing happens, the only way out is to force-quit. Then I go and toss the prefs, the 1st import is fine but after that it's back to the all-day lollipop with no importing??? Any ideas??????


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## wiz (Sep 21, 2005)

wootz... 5.0.1 is out.. finally they fixed the responsiveness bug... sheesh.. (the windows ver)


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