# I gots the final. :)



## Dr_Stein (Mar 21, 2001)

Yup.. went down to the local Staples, and there they were... 2 copies! My girlfriend went zinging by me, grabbed both of them, and had hopped over to the register before I could blink twice.
She's STILL bouncing around the house.

So far.. I'm happy. Very happy.  

Just wanna change the hostname.. *sigh* There's obviously some things that they've changed around, and I can't seem to find any trace of SSH


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## glowurm@mac.com (Mar 21, 2001)

Don't keep us in such suspense! Give us the Details! I want to know Numbers! Included applications! What's on the CD's? Is it slow like 4K78? Tell me MORE!


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## p940e (Mar 21, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Dr_Stein _
> *My girlfriend went zinging by me, grabbed both of them, and had hopped over to the register before I could blink twice.
> She's STILL bouncing around the house.
> *



Where can I get a girlfriend like that??


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## billbaloney (Mar 22, 2001)

Staples.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2001)

A mac board


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## Pascal (Mar 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by p940e _
> *Where can I get a girlfriend like that??*


 LOL


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## twister (Mar 22, 2001)

Well?  Well?  Well?  Whats up!!??  How is it?!  Whats going on?!

twister


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2001)

What do the above posts have to do with OS X 1.0 ?!?!?!


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## twister (Mar 22, 2001)

he owns it already!


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

I went to my local dealer here in Spain today and there they where, 15 boxes with MacOS X. They won't sell them until Friday's midnight, but they are there. I couldn't buy mine, but they had an open box and I could install it at one of the dealer's Macs.

The Spanish version has 3 cds: MacOS 9.1 Spanish Installer, MacOS X 1.0 Installer and the Developer Tools CD Installer.

MacOS X 1.0 comes in 7 languages: English, Spanish, French, German, Italian, Japanese and Dutch.

... I will continue posting in a while... I have to keep using it while the dealer is open


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2001)

WHAT ?????
Only 7 languages?????
THAT SUX!!! where is the greek ?????? (and russian for that matter)


gggrrrrrr......  once world one CD.... a bunch-o-balloney!

now that I hvae learned this fact.... to buy or not to buy OS X 1.0 ?


Admiral


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

Ok, the readme in the installer has some good/bad news:
- You can't install MacOS X in a USB or FireWire disk. SCSI should work, though they warn you about third party SCSI cards... if they don't work properly try to attach a disk or terminator to the external port; if no luck contact the manufacturer for and updated driver.

- AirPort support is in, but I don't have an AirPort card so I won't be able to tell you about it. If you have an existing AirPort network and configuration it will use it right away, but if you have to create a new configuration you must restart with MacOS 9.1

... I'll be back


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

Those are the languages supported in this release, but the language panel in Preferences has all the languages listed... I supose you will be able to download them pretty soon.


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

Ok, installation finished in a PowerMac G4 500 MP (one of those "old" machines  ). It took 25 minutes more or less.

... lets see... Apple Menu, About this Mac... this says this is build 4k78, Memory: 256 MB, Processor: 2 x PowerPC G4.

.... I'll keep going (one of the guys here at the dealer will be with me until late night, so I'll keep posting what I find).

THIS IS VERY EXCITING!!!


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## Titan (Mar 22, 2001)

Yep, MacAddict also reports it is 4k78.  I heard it is the second revision of 78: 4k78 r2...


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2001)

Languages listed ???
Hmmmm.... perhaps then I will buy it 
(I hope there will be greek available for download soon.... :- )



Admiral


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## Hobeaux (Mar 22, 2001)

Airport Support is IN? Are you sure?? Hm...


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

Custom installation shows 4 items:

- Base System (228 MB aprox). It is selected and dimmed by default so you can't unselect it.

- System Software (520 MB aprox). It is selected and dimmed by default so you can't unselect it.

- Printer Drivers (75 MB aprox). It is an option, but I am installing it. In 75 MB of printer drivers there must be and Epson one that I can use... I will tell you later.

- BSD Unix Layer (70 MB aprox). It is an option... at least for Apple, but not for me. It is a must.

Ok, the names and the sizes are not accurate, because I have already installed the creature and I am doing it from memory. I AM SO NERVOUS

I have installed the Developer Tools CD. It is a single package (.pkg). The CD contains only that package, two readmes and a folder with CarbonLib SDK.

I was browsing the Net with Internet Explorer 5.1 Preview, downloading several megabytes at the terminal with "wget" command and installing the DevTools.... all at the same time with no apparent performance downgrade.


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

AdmiralAK, after another look at languages menu I have to tell you that there are no Russian or Greek options... sorry, there are many flavors of French, English and others.

In the Keyboard menu there are Unicode caracter sets for 2 byte languages. Russian and Greek will be supported but they didn't have time to finish them for release date.  You will be able to download them in the near future.

Hobeaux, AirPort is supported, that is what it says here. In the Apple Menu there is a "Location" option that you can customize.


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

The dealer is closing. I have to leave and wait until tomorrow to come back or wait until 24 to get my copy.

Sorry guys, fun is over... I hate this, I have seen it but I can have it!!!

Yeti


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## Yeti (Mar 22, 2001)

when configuring "Loging Prefs" you can login automatically into an account, disable Restart and Shut Down buttons, show a password hint after 3 attempts to enter a password...

and you can choose the authentication scheme you want. When you click the select button it brings an open dialog box that goes directly to a folder called "Authenticators" which only has "Kerberos.bundle" (the path to that folder is "HD/System/Library/Authenticators"). So this are great news for security concerned people. Well done Apple!!!

Finder Info says  "Finder, Mac OS X (v10.0)

See you tomorrow MacOS X


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 22, 2001)

OK for all you people that have used it:

1) Does it have the OS9 equivilent of popup folders (or folder tabs...whatever they are called) ?
(this means that they are NOT in the dock! )

2)  What is included ? (i.e. what is in the applications folder)

3) IS music player any better than before ???

4) IS classic any faster in loading up ???

5) Can you use classic net apps( classic netscape, Yahoo Messenger, classic ICQ etc) while surfing the new in OS X ?

6) Is there a control strip back in or no ? 

7) Is the RAM requirement STILL 128Mb ?


Admiral


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## Hobeaux (Mar 22, 2001)

> 1) Does it have the OS9 equivilent of popup folders (or folder tabs...whatever they are called) ?
> (this means that they are NOT in the dock! )
> 
> 2) What is included ? (i.e. what is in the applications folder)
> ...



I'm currently in a GM version, but perhaps not the final final final -- but here is what I have:

1. Pop-up folders are gone
2. Apps: pretty much the same as PB
3. The music player is gone -- going to be replaced with iTunes (which is a shame -- i really liked the player interface)
4. Classic loads faster i think. When it's done loading the OS 9 icon bails from the dock
5. Classic net apps work just fine. I use Netscape for certain tasks as IE 5.1 Preview SUCKS -- its worse than the one in PB
6. No control strip (yay!)
7. RAM requirement is still 128

The final final final shipping version may differ, however. With luck, I'll get my copy on Monday....


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## Pascal (Mar 22, 2001)

Hobeaux wrote that :





> *Classic net apps work just fine.*


Does that means that classic (uncarbonized) apps like Eudora can fetch email out of the box without requiring the user to install a reflector of some sort ? 

On another subject, AdmiralAK asked :





> *Does it have the OS9 equivilent of popup folders?*


Well, I would believe that the popup menus for the folders placed in the dock are a good substitute for the popup folders of OS 9. So I guess heavy popup folders users (like me) won't feel orphaned... 

Finally...
_Has any one used Mac OS X's PPPoE ?_ 
(especially on Sympatico's network... but any experience one has would be appreciated !)

[Edit : I had forgotten to type a word]

[Edited by Pascal on 03-23-2001 at 08:38 AM]


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## glowurm@mac.com (Mar 22, 2001)

Note that I do not have a CD-Installed version of OS X but the "about this mac" box does indicate the 4k78 build.

PPPoE rocks for me... No problems except it doesn't automatically connect on machine boot (I may be picky, eh?) but I will resolve that with Applescript as I have done with my 9.1 PPPoE client. It does, however, have the option to start or open a connection when launching TCP/IP applications which seems to work OK. It was kind of tricky to set up but I got it figured out. It seems like it doesn't need any information but the password and login name for your ISP.

In addition, I have had very few problems (few enough that I can attribute them to the natural behavior of OS 9.1) when running classic TCP/IP applications (in the classic environment, of course) and OS X native TCP/IP apps at the same time. One such combination is I.E. (X) and Entourage (Classic). I have also used Hotfind (Classic) with I.E., Fire, and a few others. No major or inaccessability problems.

Regarding I.E. 5.1: I have had no problems with it, it seems even more stable than the classic version (5.0) in OS 9.1 (pretty darn stable). Just had to mention that for whoever it was that said it sucks.

[Edited by glowurm@mac.com on 03-22-2001 at 09:41 PM]


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## Hobeaux (Mar 22, 2001)

Granted, it's currently better than OmniWeb (which doesn't have CSS support so that app is a loser in my opinion) but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

some of my reasons for considering IE 5.1 preview to suck:
1. when downloading files, IE grinds to a halt and can cause poor performance in across other apps (spinning rainbow)
2. when downloading files, IE doesn't always show that its making progress. On occasion I've noticed that the Download Manager will state that it's waiting for bytes, but the icon on the desktop is updating with its progress.
3. complex tables and css pages tend to flip it out. Often will not draw large sections of a web page and will have to roll the mouse over stuff to make it visible. on css (and some normal pages) rolling over links will cause the link the flicker -- not all the time, but it does happen. For an example, visit this site: http://www.duarte.com -- I spent a LOT of time developing this site making sure it looks good on Mac/PC and IE/Nav but the Preview version just chokes on it. The html is sound, too, so don't blame me 
4. poor implementation of the OS X checkboxes and the like. will often find checkboxes on the wrong color or bordered in black (eww)
5. "long load times" -- the app is probably loading quickly, but doesn't display stuff until its most of the way done with the page (there may be a preference to adjust that) which gives the impression that its loading in fits and spurts


I'm sure there's more, but I'm away from X until tomorrow


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## glowurm@mac.com (Mar 22, 2001)

I concede: those are correct and totally accurate points. I have experienced all of the symptoms Hobeaux mentioned and agree that these are problems.

However, I think it is worth noting that it has support for my scroll wheel and right mouse button without any configurations or drivers (read: work on my part), and I am using a Kensington Mouse-in-a-Box Optical Pro Mouse (Microsoft Intellimouse clone). The Finder has limited support of this thing; the right mouse works as a contextual menu click and the wheel doesn't work at all. In some other apps around the system it (the wheel)  does work. I dunno why. The side buttons don't do anything anywhere.

I.E. also doesn't crash on me... so I maintain that it is stable and fast. I haven't tried any other browsers in OS X so I cannot give a comparison to what others are doing.

And Hobeaux: That site rocks. Excellent design site-wise and project-wise, plus an impressive client list. You work  for these people?

[Edited by glowurm@mac.com on 03-22-2001 at 11:57 PM]


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## p940e (Mar 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Hobeaux _
> *OmniWeb (which doesn't have CSS support ... is a loser in my opinion) *



I'm doing my best from going off topic and telling you why (despite the obvious CSS thing, which is on the way) OmniWeb is a great browser.  I will say this, all the items that you dissed IE for, work great in OmniWeb.  Go spend some more time with it.



> _Originally posted by glowurm@mac.com_
> *The Finder has limited support of this thing [scroll wheel and right-button]; the right mouse works as a contextual menu click and the wheel doesn't work at all. In some other apps around the system it (the wheel) does work. I dunno why. The side buttons don't do anything anywhere.  *


MacOS X 'Cocoa' apps have support for the scroll wheel.  You can read more about Cocoa on this site.  IE is the only non-Cocoa app I know of that has built-in support for the scroll wheel.  I'm assuming that this is something MS did on their own, although I wish that Apple would add support for the scroll wheel in Carbon.  It's kind of weird switching between programs and having the wheel support turn on and off.

At the very least, I'd really like to see wheel support in the finder!!  Is this because the finder is carbon (is the finder carbon?)??

_On another note:_ I spent all day long hanging out in staples looking for girls.  No luck.

Boy do I feel stupid.


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## Hobeaux (Mar 23, 2001)

Well, there are issues with both apps. In the PB i was forever unable to install OmniWeb -- it would crash bomb every time I would try to run it. 

On 4K78 I can get it to run, but with the (current) lack of CSS support, the sites that I frequent are disasters. My own personal site ( http://www.unrealengine.com ) is the worst of the bunch because I use extensive css -- no font tags allowed. 

As for the Duarte site, yah -- I work for Duarte as a designer and guinea pig


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## Pascal (Mar 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by p940e _
> *Is this because the finder is carbon (is the finder carbon?)??*


That is right : for reasons I cannot understand, Apple chose the Carbon route for the Finder. Could someone explain to me why they did not program the Finder in Cocoa ? After all, my understanding is that Finder X was rebuild from the ground up...


> *On another note: I spent all day long hanging out in staples looking for girls.  No luck.
> 
> Boy do I feel stupid. *


 LOL 
(<FONT SIZE=-4>Maybe in the inflatable toy section ? ;-) (Hey ! It's a joke, man !))</FONT>


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 23, 2001)

Staples & women lol  its like saying  " Medieval knights & tea time"  LOL 



Admiral


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## nicholas_sfx (Mar 23, 2001)

Hi - 
Could you check and see if the Epson Stylus Photo 700 driver is included?

Many thanks!

Nicholas


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## Agent mosquito (Mar 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by p940e _*Where can I get a girlfriend like that?? *


i was thinking the exact same thing....

under 24 hours now for myself...

-drew


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 23, 2001)

Women...are women that hard to  find these days ??? LOL 

Just put your mac to sleep... put something nice on and go take a walk lol 
(Women make up more than 50% of the population of the USA lol it aint THAT hard )


Admiral


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## p940e (Mar 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *Just put your mac to sleep... *



You make it sound so easy!!

Nah, for reals.  I work so damned much (often 60+ a week) that it's hard to find time to meet girls.  Plus, when I'm not working I'm either practicing music, on a hike, or at a Jazz concert.  I suppose it's my own fault as these aren't the best places to meet women (Gosh, they're worse then staples).

Oh, and I still live with my parents (I'm only 20).


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 23, 2001)

Hmmmmm.....
I am 20... full-time uni student ( in the USA ) and work 30+ hours a week...
Dont even have time to upgrade my website lol ... (use to update it every 1/2 month ...and now its down to every 3 months )
Girfriend ?? go one of those lol (still live with parents though)...

practice music ???  I prefer to mix & edit and creat new music on my mac lol ...
and when I have time I like to play around with OSs....

(I guess opposites attract coz my girlfriend is almost anti computer, and hip-hop person (as opposed to techno/dance/house/club that I liste & make lol ) )

which reminds me... need to save up and buy groovemaker 2.0 


Admiral

PS: All (available) mac women on this board looking for a meaningful relationship (or whatever) make yourselves known!  We have people men here who are looking for the same things you do!  ( ok I also play cupid on my free time ) LOL


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## p940e (Mar 23, 2001)

All that and you still manage to post more than anyone on this site.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 23, 2001)

It's the cafeine man!  I'm jacked!


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## superrcat (Mar 23, 2001)

Heh...UNI...I go to uiowa...


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## nauseum (Mar 24, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Dr_Stein _
> *Just wanna change the hostname.. *sigh* There's obviously some things that they've changed around, and I can't seem to find any trace of SSH  *



try:

man hostname



as for ssh, i will have tarballs of openSSL and openSSH on my site RealSoonNow(tm)

cheers,
NauSeuM


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## Dr_Stein (Mar 24, 2001)

Holy shit, I didn't know so many people would reply!!

It's working great for me.. people said that 4K78 was this oh-so-slow build, but it's not slow at all on a G4/400 Powerbook with 384mb RAM.... 

Expect a LOT of updates out of Apple in the next few weeks. 
Already a lot more Carbonized apps.. but.. but the one I need..

SSH! There's no SSH! I heard from a trusted source that it was because of legal issues with SSH. =/


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## Dr_Stein (Mar 24, 2001)

oh yeah.. 

there's a line in /etc/rc.boot that will change the hostname back to localhost. Change that line, reboot. Life is good. 

Apache is sweet. They've made a nice little "About Apache Web Sharing" page in your /Users/Sites folder 

Having Apache here ROCKS.. my GOD it's cool...

Already a carbonized 
iTunes
iMovie
Appleworks 6.1
Livejournal client
Eudora 5.1beta
ICQ alpha
OmniWeb 4.0

Just need a real AIM client (or use Fire)
Wanted carbonized:
ShadowIRC (dammit, DSHadow, get on it! hehe)
Netscape 6 (I've had BIG TIME problems with the IE 5.1preview that came with it, but Netscape 6.01 works great in Classic)


Classic is a hell of a lot faster than it was before. It's like you're running your Mac in 9.1!


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## Dr_Stein (Mar 24, 2001)

(still trying to reply..)
Airport WORKS GREAT!!!! Signal strength seems a bit less than it would under 9.1, but still, it's solid.

The network control panel is where they kind of moved Location Manager.. it's a bit confusing, but works. I miss the Location Manager. 

Classic works GREAT!

OmniWeb 4.0code-freeze 1 is working GREAT as well.. and if it crashes, it has a feedback agent - so expect a LOT of OmniWeb bug fixes in the near future. 

No pop-up folders.  

Terminal.app seems snappier, too.  tcsh is the default, which rocks.

Mail.app looks a LOT nicer, is more stable, and supports multiple accounts a lot better. I'm still going to use Eudora just because I'm stubborn and all my mail/etc is in Eudora anyway. Besides, I paid for it. 

Gimme time.. I'm still thinking of stuff...


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## Hobeaux (Mar 24, 2001)

I'm not on a mac at the moment, but isn't there a Location feature under the Apple Menu?


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## SnazzQueen (Mar 24, 2001)

That's right, if your MAC needs some lovin', I'm available.  Otherwise I'll be by here by myself fondling my ibook and reading longingly about the good times you guys are having with X.  I'm an exchange student in England for the semester, and don't really have the time or $$ (or should that be ££) to spend on it right now, so I'm living vicariously through you guys.  I know you're all having way too much fun right now, jizzin' all over yaselves over this cool new OS, but keep posting!


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 24, 2001)

Psit! I'll let you in in a secret 
I dont have the $$ to get OS X either (at the time being)...saving my $$$ for my summer vacation... this summer is gonna be awesome...anyhow.

I think that I am gonna be left in the dust here if I dont get OS X and post 
(Perhaps my Boss will be kind enought to buy me a gratis copy when he gets copies of OS X for our G3s lol )



Admiral

PS: exchange student from england ?? what uni are u in ? (and where from england..I have a few acquaintances there )

PPS: did you buy your iBook here or there ?  are you using the built in modem ?  any troubles in your travels with it (digital/analog line problems )

PPPS: (last one) What special skills do you have ?  I have an old perfoma that I am considering painting and making it look really cool   So my question is...do u do body work ?


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## SnazzQueen (Mar 24, 2001)

We poor college students... Any benevolent OS X benefactors out there? Throw me some ram across the pond too, maybe? 

I'm at Keele University.  It's next to Stoke-on-Trent, which is right smack in the center of England, basically.  In between Manchester & Birmingham.

I got the iBook before I came. No probs with the modem, just bought some cheap adapters, but I've only hooked it up in my dormroom here.  I'm not taking it backpacking with me or anything. (We get the entire month of April off, so I'm going travelin') Too heavy and too expensive to lose.  And I'll be too busy anyway.  Which is my philosophy on the OS X thing, too.  No matter how pretty aqua is, I didn't come to Europe to stare at a computer screen.  (But here I sit right now, eh?)

[/B][/QUOTE] PPPS: (last one) What special skills do you have ?  I have an old perfoma that I am considering painting and making it look really cool   So my question is...do u do body work ? [/B][/QUOTE]

that would be snazzy!  wish i had an old computer i could decorate.


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## Bogie (Mar 24, 2001)

You boys do realize that as college students you get $60 off the price, right?

Regardless, Fire works great and the newest version seems to have fixed the AIM block that AOL had put in place last week against 2.1a and prior versions.  So, if you need IM services, it does AIM, ICQ, YahooIM, and MSN Messanger seemlessly in OS X.

I have yet to get enough bandwidth on Apple's site to get AppleWorks 6.1 [the update/preview] so I don't yet know how well that works.

AirPort works great, I was in a store today and spent some time working with it.

Location Manager in Mac OS X is near perfect.

Thing is though, you don't see it unless you look for it.  Here is how it works.

If you select "automatic" the following happens.

You don't set up different "sets" of network settings for each location, instead the OS auto-detects the best connection and uses it.  If you have AirPort installed and there is an AirPort Network available but not an ethernet network, then it will contect to the AirPort Network and contact it to determine all network settings without you even knowing.  Later if you connect via ethernet it will use that connection since it is faster.  All without the user ever being notified or bothered.

Course, if you want to make the determination yourself, you can.  Just don't select "automatic."

Classic seems to run very well.  I was able to run IE 5 [Classic], AIM, OE 5 [Classic, there is a beta or alpha Carbon build out], Fetch [Classic, although there is an OS X version out], all without problem.  Although I have read in a TIL from Apple that one should not run two version of IE at once or you will get some kind of error.

QuickTime 5 seems good but I have yet to try a lot of different file types on it.

The OS seems quite snappy, but some things are still there to complain about.  Window resizing will be a big issue for people who want to complain, its a legitimate complaint, but it won't ruin your life either.

Reportably network printers and Classic do not get along the best but do work, I haven't tried it yet myself though.

I have run it on a G3 600 iMacSE, PowerMac G4 Cube 450, and a G4 PowerBook 500.  RAM ranged from 128MB, to 256MB.

In OS X native work 128MB seems like alot, but in Classic work I think you need it all and more is better.  Just an opinion.

I seem to be writing long posts lately so I hope you guys bare with me.

At this point I am really excited by the UNIX 2/3s of this OS.  Fact is that although we see 100% Mac OS Aqua, the reality is something like 85% UNIX or UNIX like stuff.

The best part of the release from a Mac community stand point is the Developer Tools included in the retail box.  Much like in the days following 1984 software for the Macintosh now could well return to those grassroots it came from then.

I hope many Mac users take it upon themselves to create little projects like Fire that may become nationally known, platform wide standards.


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## SnazzQueen (Mar 24, 2001)

You "boys" do realize some of us are "girls"? 

Thanks for the excellent informative long post, though, Bogie.  I'll try to be more RELEVANT from now on.   Though I think I'm hardly to blame for the devolution of this thread.


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## Bogie (Mar 24, 2001)

OK, just for that last comment I am making a new thread in the general discussion, come look it up and tell your friends, we can find out who we are posting to, it'll be fun.


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## AdmiralAK (Mar 25, 2001)

UNfortunatelly every store I have been to in the past, when it comes to OS software, even though I DO go to educational stores...cost the full price...so the only place to get it is apple online... something I dont really do that often (online buying) cause you neeeeeever know ;-)
(I am a bit paranoid .... prefer to pay cash not credit...and like my martinis shaken not stired....)
althought.... I do have a 30$ rebate (since I was a PB user ) ... I might consider it 



Admiral


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## get2003 (Mar 25, 2001)

4k78


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