# What language to use for this:



## dlloyd (May 12, 2003)

Okay, here is the deal:
At our church, we have a children's bell choir. Now as you can imagine, kids usually can't read music, so each bell is color coded. The way the choir director (my Mom) tells them what bells to play is by holding up a card which has little color filled circles on it, each circle corresponding to a bell of the same color.
Now, she can buy these card sets ('songs'), but they run about $25 USD each, which is too much for our little church to support.
So, instead, she draws up new songs of her own. I was asked (I hope it turns into something I can get some $$$ out of  ) recently to develop a computer program so that she can do this electronically.
I have already finished developing a working prototype using PHP and MySQL, but this looks and acts like a web page (I want it to be a bit more like an application.)
Here is what I need it to do:
To have a GUI front end where my Mom (or anybody else who maybe knows no more about computers than how to turn them on) can make and edit these cards. After that, I want them to be able to display each song as a full-screen slid-show, and also be able to print them out.
Now, I use a Mac, but the sad fact is that most of the poor uneducated souls out there are still stuck on those stupid bad-excuses-for-computers called PCs. This means that to reach to biggest potential audience, I will need to be able to port my program to the PC without _too_ much hassle. From what I have heard, this rules out such 'cool tools' as Interface Builder, because it uses Objective C, which I have gathered is an Apple-only language. (Correct me here if I am wrong!)
I did a bit of research, and I was considering using Java (this will enable me to make Java Applets for my web sites too). My Dad suggested Revolution (http://www.runrev.com/), which looks quite good, but the free version of this is limited to ten lines of code per object. I haven't any idea what this means, but will it enable me to do what I want to?
The most advanced language I know right now is PHP, but I was planing to learn a language for Application development anyway, so this isn't a problem.

What I really want to know is what is the best application language to use for this application, and possibly others later too.
Any advice would be much appreciated!


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## dlloyd (May 12, 2003)

Too slow! 
I am going to try that Revolution thingy. If it doesn't work, then I will be back. If looks really good though, almost like AppleScript!


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## binaryDigit (May 13, 2003)

How about Shockwave?  I don't know about it's printing abilities, but it is cross platform and allows content delivery over the web (which would help make administration easier).


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## dlloyd (May 13, 2003)

That sounds to much like Flash to me. And I hate Flash. :-\


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## moav (May 13, 2003)

Truthfully, you could probably do it in filemaker. Find a synthesizer plug in and basically corespond each note to a color. After the database has all the correct color note sequences you can output it anyway you want. You can very easily run a script to do a slide show or something like that.


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## kainjow (May 13, 2003)

REALbasic! This is easy in REALbasic, which can compile for Mac OS 9, Mac OS X and Windows.

REALbasic would be much faster and easier then PHP and Java.

http://www.realbasic.com


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## dlloyd (May 13, 2003)

I did try REALBasic a while back, it seems a lot like this Revolution thing I am trying, except REALBasic doesn't have a free version, only a 30 day demo


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## dlloyd (May 13, 2003)

Only draw-back to this Revolution thing is it has one of the most _un-mac_ interfaces I have EVER seen


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## LordCoven (May 13, 2003)

Aww, hell! Just write it in assembler! I hear that has great GUI capabilities!





(Just kidding, by the way!)


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## dlloyd (May 13, 2003)

I almost did learn that for a project I was going to do using a PIC chip. My teacher decided it would take too much time though, and programed it himself.


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## kainjow (May 13, 2003)

REALbasic has a full version but lasts 30 days. You said Revolution had a version that could only do 10 lines of code. That sucks way hard really. With the REALbasic demo, it is fully functional for 30 days. That really is way better. You could basically create an entire project in that time.

For more help, you could go to www.realgurus.com - they would love to help you out!


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## wiz (May 13, 2003)

well the php project has a command line  php interpreter which will enable php developers to creater dsktop applications!

at least that's what i heard somewhere.

if it's true u might want to check it out!


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## Darkshadow (May 13, 2003)

Hey, dlloyd, you can do full on Java programs with Project Builder.  Just install the stuff on the Dev CD.

Just pick to make a new Java application or applet.  Not limited to 10 lines with Project Builder, plus it's free.   And as long as you don't pick one of the Cocoa/Java mixes, it's pure Java, so it'll do what ya want.


Erm, depending on how old your Dev Tools CD is, you may want to go to developer.apple.com and sign up for an account.  Sign up for the free account, then you can download the newest Dev tools (it's from Dec - 301.2 MB!).  There's also a Java Dev Tools update there that you might wanna grab (from March - 48.6 MB).

Thought that might help ya out


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## dlloyd (May 13, 2003)

OK, thanks for all your help, guys! You are great!  I'm really glad I have a forum like this to go to!
*kainjow:* I don't like being limited to 30 days, I will have to learn it first, and then I will get hooked, and I really can't afford to buy anything like that right now 
*wiz:* I think I will look into this, it is a great idea, as long as it creates stand-alone applications.
*Darkshadow:* but can I use interface builder with this or anything? I am also wondering about Java: if I was to burn this to a CD later and pass it out, will anybody who doesn't know much about computers, and hasn't changed their generic three-year-old Dell from it's default configuration be able to view it?


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## Darkshadow (May 14, 2003)

Hmm, no you can't use Interface Builder with it unless you're making a Cocoa/Java application - and that wouldn't port over at all.  You'll have to use the standard Java UI stuff if you want to be able to use it on multiple architectures.  You could, of course, make a specialized version of it for OS X if you wanted to. 

Well, if the Java routines you're using are all 3 years old or older, then yes it would run for them, but if you were using newer ones it wouldn't.  But that would be the same case regardless of what app you used to create it with.  Wouldn't be your fault if someone didn't have the most recent Java stuff installed.

You could always put in the Read Me that the user should have an up-to-date Java installation.  That's pretty standard, really.


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## dlloyd (May 14, 2003)

Ok, thanks!
So if I understand you correctly there is no WYSIWYG interface editor for Java that comes with the Apple Developers tools?


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## Darkshadow (May 14, 2003)

Not that I know of.  I suppose that could be a limitation to making an interface - having to code it all out.


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## dlloyd (May 14, 2003)

Yeah 
Oh well, I'll experiment around a bit


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## bibbersmajor (May 15, 2003)

Hi, I've just joined and picked a random thread....spooky!

If you want someting that's...
   FREE!!!
   CROSS-PLATFORM (22 platforms last I looked, more than Java!)
   MULTI-MEDIA
   TOTALL AMAZING

then go to www.squeak.org and download the necessary for your chosen platform. I have been using this for about four years and it still blows me away. it looks a little odd and takes a while to get used to but so does anything new and get this: crack Smalltalk and nothing else will ever bother you again. Trust me!

You can load Shockwave, MPEG, just about anything and play it all at once and Squeak treats just like any other object floating about.

As for printing...not brilliant as such BUT anything can be exported as a GIF/JPEG/BMP and you can print it 'locally'. A lot of the 'Morphs' support saving themselves to file a EPS as well.

Good Luck

PS: Smalltals is *highly* addictive. It was invented back in 1972 (approx) and yet people are *now realising* it is the way that Java and C++ has to go! Alan Kay is a god!


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## kainjow (May 16, 2003)

Isn't Objective-C made/modeled from Smalltalk and C++???


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## wiz (May 24, 2003)

no!
i think it is smalltalk and C


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## dlloyd (May 25, 2003)

bibbersmajor: thanks!
I am not not at home right now, but I will check into it when I am!


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