# Why Steve Jobs is becomming untrustworthy.......



## cigar (Aug 23, 2004)

Let me clear that out before anyone comes in flaming and cursing that such is not true.
I am one  of folk whois of the "old guard" from the past who was there when Apple made his rise to the top of the world and Steve Jobs was the wizzkid who gave us the wellknown "mac" feeling.Yes my first Mac was a macintosh 512K with all the hoopla after i saw that great commercial at the superbowl.What a joy i had with my Macintosh wich i still have after all these years.Anyhow...i got a chance after a while to be  an intern at the Apple HQ in Cupertino doing nothing technical but beeing there to learn the ropes regarding sales-techniques and helping out doing those things interns have to do.(yep even then Apple was multifuctional)
Later on while growing up i sold all my Apple-stock in time before all the troubles began and moved on in life and visited certain "Keynotes" since 1996 till 2001.
I've seen Apple's up and downside and today i don't like what i see on certain moments:

What my greatest dislike of Apple inc.now is compared to the past is that Steve Jobs has turned 180 degrees regarding his earlier vision Then beeing a Macuser was something of "us" vs "them".After Apple was saved by Microsoft (ok..i called that intrest wich was long over due) and Steve Jobs made peace with Bill Gates i saw a shift wich most of the earlier mac-rebels like me disliked. Yes it was seen as treason of the highest order and infact i was there that day in Boston when the alliance was made and certain Mac-fanatic's were ready to hurt/kill Steve Jobs that day on stage for what he did(alliance with Gates) Yes....that deep was/is the hate against Microsoft.Why is that? Cause it is still indirectly seen that it was trough Microsoft that Apple lost the edge in the computer-business because of their copy of the userinterface.( yeah i know Apple also made some terrible executive decisions)
Jobs also never thanked the Mac community for their countless efforts of keeping the brand name alive in times when Windows was ruling the world in the 90's. Don't forget the zillions of fansites were Mac-geeks are helping, reeinventing applications for their beloved OS and nowadays are beeing confronted with the new policy of Apple inc. and especially their legal department.Is that the gratfullness towards those who were there when Apple was almost dead? Then there is his public predictions at his Keynotes that he cannot back up after a while and cannot even accurately predict. 
Steve Jobs needs a wakeup call on this idiotic prediction business he's manufactured. Swing away at me, but I call them as I see them and I see Jobs opening the company up to unnecessary criticism. My advice? Mr. Jobs should keep his mouth shut regarding predictions that state hard numbers that can be missed and easily refuted. Just announce iTunes sales numbers and GHz speeds as he has them in hand. I have an advice for dear old Steve:_ "don't set goals in public if you aren't damn sure that you can hit them. You'll just give your foes ammunition otherwise; even if the ammo you're providing are duds, they can still wound."_


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## symphonix (Aug 24, 2004)

cigar said:
			
		

> Jobs also never thanked the Mac community for their countless efforts of keeping the brand name alive in times when Windows was ruling the world in the 90's. Don't forget the zillions of fansites were Mac-geeks are helping, reeinventing applications for their beloved OS and nowadays are being confronted with the new policy of Apple inc. and especially their legal department.




- Steve was not CEO of Apple during most of the 1990's.
- Steve Jobs is not the sum total of Apple, nor is he responsible for every thing Apple does. There is no reason to personally target Steve.
- Its not normal corporate practice to say "Thanks everyone for having faith in us when we were in hard times." It lacks business panache.
- What new policy are you talking about? Is there somthing Apple is doing, or a legal stance they have, that you're actually concerned about? Or is this just a misdirected "feeling"?




			
				cigar said:
			
		

> Then there is his public predictions at his Keynotes that he cannot back up after a while and cannot even accurately predict.




Sorry, what predictions? Has Steve ever made a promise at the Keynote presentations that Apple hasn't been able to meet?




			
				cigar said:
			
		

> Steve Jobs needs a wakeup call on this idiotic prediction business he's manufactured. Swing away at me, but I call them as I see them and I see Jobs opening the company up to unnecessary criticism. My advice? Mr. Jobs should keep his mouth shut regarding predictions that state hard numbers that can be missed and easily refuted. Just announce iTunes sales numbers and GHz speeds as he has them in hand.




He usually does. The G5 figures predicted at the last keynote have been met. It was one of the only occassions I can recall on which Steve actually dropped a hint of future directions for Apple, and one which will still prove to be realistic, give or take 2 months.



			
				cigar said:
			
		

> I have an advice for dear old Steve:_ "don't set goals in public if you aren't damn sure that you can hit them. You'll just give your foes ammunition otherwise; even if the ammo you're providing are duds, they can still wound."_



The goals set by Steve are just that: goals
They have almost been met. iTMS now holds 70% of the direct-download music sales market. The G5 processors being shipped by IBM now are running at the speeds Steve said they would be at this time (I think the words he used were _"mid-way through 2004"_, and this was stated over a year ago).
If anything, I would trust the carefully thought out words of Steve Jobs during a Keynote far more than any of the poorly spelt, poorly worded and non-specific musings I've seen on various forums lately.

Enough said...No personal offense meant, I just think you should research what you say and be specific if you're going to make personal attacks against someone.


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## diablojota (Aug 24, 2004)

Look, I have used Macs since they were introduced.  I do not like Microsoft, however, I can honestly say that Apple relying on M$ to use the "standard" office formats is fine with me.  You have to be flexible, and you have to provide the customers with things to drive sales, regardless of whom that product comes from.  M$ Office for the Mac is a necessity.  It is the standard in the Enterprise, and more often than not, the standard at home.
Apple made a wise decision to get supported by Microsoft.  Apple can & will always out innovate, and do everything better than the Redmond giant.  That's why I love Apple.
Besides, before Steve came back, Apple was going down the tubes.  He reinvented Apple.  Look at the iPod.  Look at the G5, okay, so he didn't meet his promise of 3Ghz by summer, but so what.  We finally have a processor that is so much better than what we've had in the past, and plenty fast to boot.


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## rubaiyat (Nov 1, 2004)

Obviously you have stopped buying Macs, now go away.

I know I have!

 ::evil::


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## hulkaros (Nov 1, 2004)

cigar do yourself a favor and give it a rest... Steve Jobs and Apple in general are doing AWESOME! Pixar too! If YOU cannot understand this then give it a rest 

If someone is untrustworthy then that certainly and clearly is/are the following:
-Micro$oft (aka M$) for their Longhorn blah-blah ( Linux and Apple are kicking M$'s behind which is so cool )
-Intel (inside - Idiot outside) with their P4 blah-blah ( AMD and IBM are kicking Intel's behind which is so funny )
-You for all this untrustworthy blah-blah ( is anyone kicking your behind and ain't that interesting?  )


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## fryke (Nov 1, 2004)

Symphonix said: "Steve was not CEO of Apple during most of the 1990's."

That's exactly what cigar meant. It was mostly the community out there that helped the Mac and Apple keep its face through the bad days. cigar's criticism there is about how Steve now treats the community...

I have to disagree with cigar, though, completely. The 'deal with the devil' was desperately needed back then. I rather see Apple strike good deals, even with the devil, and survive, than Apple staying an island and 'free' of such deals and dying.

That deal, while it gave away a lot of things, brought us (the Mac side of the world) good Microsoft Office updates. Whether you're personally using MS Office or not doesn't matter here. Hadn't MS Office been around, the Mac would be dead by now. That's my guess at least. Sure, there would have been other solutions, but I'm also quite sure that Microsoft wouldn't have just nodded had someone brought out a really good MS Office clone with full compatibility...


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## ford.boy (Nov 3, 2004)

Head off to folklore.org and read about the man. 

Steve Jobs is doing things like he always has. He is innovating, with style. The community is still 'us v them', (I'm sure everyone here likes being us not them), and Steve Jobs supports that. His decisions are pretty well grounded and so are the keynotes.
If he were really bad for the community, would his sickness care have worried so many earlier in the year?
If he were really that bad for the company, would he still be CEO?

First post  Go me


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## Viro (Nov 3, 2004)

rubaiyat said:
			
		

> Obviously you have stopped buying Macs, now go away.
> 
> I know I have!
> 
> ::evil::



You the guy who wrote that poorly researched article on macs a while back on OSNews?


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## ApeintheShell (Nov 3, 2004)

Setting a goal is just an intial plan. When you put it into motion people will be hounding you to stop or turn back. People do not like others to succeed because it does not fit in with their opinion.

I don't agree with every plan Steve Jobs has set out to do but so far by the success of the iPod, iTunes, iMac, and Mac OS X I don't see what another us vs. them will bring except more people switching back to Windows.


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## g/re/p (Nov 3, 2004)

From what i have observed, the return of Steve Jobs combined with the release of OS X has made a huge difference - these are two of the main reasons for Apple's current success. 
Something like this needed to happen or Apple probably would have fallen off into obscurity.



> Originally Posted by cigar
> What my greatest dislike of Apple inc.now is compared to the past is that Steve Jobs has turned 180 degrees regarding his earlier vision Then beeing a Macuser was something of "us" vs "them".


if his original vision was "us vs. them", i for one am glad he changed his vision! - that kind of thinking is really not too sound.


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