# extensions issue



## Shifting (Aug 19, 2003)

ok, a buddy of mine is trying to fix up (and eventually install X on) an old beige G3.  he knows very little about computers so i'm helping him, but it's been a long time since i've dealt with OS 9, so i thought i'd post this.  here's the deal:

the G3 started out with OS 8.5 on it.  i upgraded that to 9.1 with no trouble, but after a restart, it bombs on the startup screen while loading extensions every time.  so i think no sweat, just startup with extensions off.  but...every time i do that, i can't use the mouse, which is a logitech two button mouse that must depend on an extension to work.  i tried using my apple pro mouse under the same circumstances, but it won't work either.  anyway, once it starts up without extensions, i can only view the extensions.  i can't turn them on or off.  and i can't restart either.  what really bothers me is that once it's started up with extensions off, they all appear as generic icons in the extensions manager, thus making it impossible for me to figure out which one is causing the problem.  i know what it looks like from the startup screen, but i have no idea what it is called or what purpose it serves.

i also tried to start up off my OS 9 install disc, but that's no good either, because the internal cd drive on the beige is broken, so he's got a usb drive that refuses to work without it's proper extension running.

so i can't find a solution.  i don't want to give up without a fight though.  anyone have any ideas what might work?


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## Cheryl (Aug 19, 2003)

Sounds like you did not do a clean install or update the hard drive drivers. How did you install OS 9 if the CD drives do not work?  
Did you try restarting and holding down the space bar to get the extension manager? 
Don't give up.  First, insert the OS 9 CD in the USB drive and do a hard restart -> command(apple) + control + power key.. then hold down the C key. If that does not do it, try it - restart then hold down Delete + option + command (apple) + shift.  This will force the computer to search for an operating system other than the hard drive. 

Once you get the computer started with the CD, open the Utility folder on the CD and run disk First Aide. Have it verify then repair all the problems. Then quit that. The drive icon should show up on your desktop when it is done. Open it and check to see if you have two system folders. You only want one. Trash the other if you find two. 
Open Drive set up and go to the menu and select Update Driver. Quit that, and open the installer.  The second screen will give you either an options button or a box to check. You want to select perform a clean install. 
The clean install will create a new fresh operating system and rename the old one previous system folder. Now you need to install your drivers for printer, etc but I highly recommend that you download the correct updated drivers for OS 9. 

Keep us posted on how you do and if you need further help.


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## Shifting (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cheryl _
> *How did you install OS 9 if the CD drives do not work?  *



well the usb drive worked under 8.5.  so that's how i got 9.1 to install.



> *Did you try restarting and holding down the space bar to get the extension manager? *



yes, and this works, but when i get to the extensions manager all the extensions appear as generic icons (making it impossible to identify the offending extension), i can't use the mouse and i can only view the extensions.  i can't turn any of them on or off.  are there any keyboard shortcuts that would help me here?  i've tried everything i can think of with no luck.

thanks for the suggestions Cheryl, i'll try all this as soon as i can and post up what happens.


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## Cheryl (Aug 19, 2003)

You probably need to check for an update on the mouse driver So it will work in OS 9.


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## Shifting (Aug 19, 2003)

that may be the case, but if so, why wouldn't my apple pro mouse work under the same circumstances?  that is, starting up without extensions.

but i will look into drivers, i need to look for OS X mouse drivers anyways.

well i'll be working on the beige again later tonite, so i'll let you know what happens.


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## Shifting (Aug 20, 2003)

i took your advice, Cheryl, and i got 9.2 installed.

however, i told it to do a clean install but it didn't.  at least it starts up properly now.  but the usb drive won't play a music cd, instead it crashes.

i want to install X on it, specifically Jaguar, but the install doesn't work.  the disc loads fine but it hangs after the first screen that says "click this button to restart and start the install".  the same thing happens with my 10.1 install disc.  i'm thinking of trying my 10.0 disc too, but i suspect the same thing will happen.

i guess i can try doing a clean install of 9.2 again...i just don't want to wipe out the drivers for the mouse and the usb drive, because then i'd be screwed.  plus this G3 has no internet access at the moment, so i'd have to back those up.  which i can, but then how can i use the usb drive without it's driver?  that's part of the reason i want to upgrade to X, as both the mouse and usb drive are natively supported.


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## Cheryl (Aug 20, 2003)

Before you do anything more, Check the hard drive to make sure you only have one system folder.  If it did the clean install properly, you should have 'previous system folder'.  

Next, Check the system folder for any duplicates of files.  Just open one folder at a time - especially the extensions folder and the control panel folder. By the way - check the extensions folder for ObjectSupport Lib and trash it. 
Also, it could be that you have USB drivers that are in conflict. If apple installed USB drivers, you may not need the additional drivers. 

If all looks good - Check the memory control panel. You need virtual memory on and ram disk off.  Next, restart the computer and hold down the option and command(apple) keys until you get a dialog box asking if you wish to do a desktop rebuild. This will come up after the extensions load at the bottom. Release the keys and click on the okay button. 

The beige G3 needs firmware updates before you can install OS X...and make sure you have the general install CD not the specific model CD.  When the CD has a specific model listed on it, it will not install on any other machine.  But you need to get OS 9 working smoothly first. 

Did you do a full install?  Do you have Apple CD player installed?


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## Shifting (Aug 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cheryl _
> *Before you do anything more, Check the hard drive to make sure you only have one system folder.  If it did the clean install properly, you should have 'previous system folder'.*



i forgot to mention, after the 9.2 install i checked and there was only one system folder.  i glanced at it, it looked fine.  no 'previous system folder', though.



> *Next, Check the system folder for any duplicates of files.  Just open one folder at a time - especially the extensions folder and the control panel folder. By the way - check the extensions folder for ObjectSupport Lib and trash it.
> Also, it could be that you have USB drivers that are in conflict. If apple installed USB drivers, you may not need the additional drivers.*



i'll be sure to check all this out.



> *If all looks good - Check the memory control panel. You need virtual memory on and ram disk off.  Next, restart the computer and hold down the option and command(apple) keys until you get a dialog box asking if you wish to do a desktop rebuild. This will come up after the extensions load at the bottom. Release the keys and click on the okay button.*



just curious, how will a desktop rebuild help?  i'll gladly give it a shot, i just wonder what it does.



> *The beige G3 needs firmware updates before you can install OS X...and make sure you have the general install CD not the specific model CD.  When the CD has a specific model listed on it, it will not install on any other machine.  But you need to get OS 9 working smoothly first.*



i have the general install discs for 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2, so that shouldn't be the problem.  as for firmware, there are firmware updates on the OS X install discs, but nothing for a Power Mac G3.  i'm looking for the update(s) right now, but not having any luck...



> *Did you do a full install?  Do you have Apple CD player installed?*



the cd player is there, it opens when i try to play a music track, but then everything locks up.

thanks for your help so far, Cheryl.


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## Cheryl (Aug 20, 2003)

Rebuilding the desktop will give you fresh invisible files that help the computer find the apps needed. 

How much memory do you have installed? To find out check About this Mac in the Apple Menu or the Memory control panel. 

Go to the Apple web site and check out:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24714

If your hard drive is 2 GB or larger check this out:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30239

One thing I just thought of. It could be that USB card that is screwing up everything. If you remove the card, then do a Clean install of the OS, then install the USB card, then install the drivers for it, you might get better luck... I remembered that someone with a SCSI card had to do this and everything went smoothly.


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## Shifting (Aug 24, 2003)

Cheryl, just wanted to let you know i finally figured out the problem.  it's that damn usb drive.  that's why my attempt at a clean install of 9.2 didn't work, why none of my OS X install discs work, and why music discs freeze everything up.  last night i tried to restart and nothing happened, and i'd already started to suspect the usb drive, so i unplugged it and then restarted without a hitch.  so now i've convinced my buddy that a new usb drive/burner would be very good for the G3's health.   thanks again for your help, it really figures it would be something so simple.


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## Cheryl (Aug 24, 2003)

You proved the point that not all USB equipment works well with a Mac. 
So what brand/model is that USB drive?


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## Shifting (Aug 24, 2003)

it's an old Iomega Predator burner.

personally i've never had any luck with Iomega products...i used to have a usb zip drive and that was pretty worthless.

the only problem now is finding a new usb drive.  everything available these days seems to be usb 2.0 and there's no point in spending extra on that.


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## Arden (Aug 24, 2003)

USB 2 will work fine with USB 1 (see related thread), but you won't have the speed associated with USB 2.  Check www.pricewatch.com for prices.

My 250 MB Zip drive caused my iMac a number of problems before it broke down, including frequently freezing the system during startup after restarting from a crash (this is all in OS 9, BTW).  It also tended to mount Zip disks twice, which I think came from when I was trying to get it working after first getting it, and I hotswapped it, and something happened with that... I don't remember exactly, but when I plug a Zip drive into the computer, I have to force quit the Finder because it freezes (though it usually restarts just fine).

Good luck with your endeavors, Shifting.  You'll probably need it.


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## Shifting (Aug 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *USB 2 will work fine with USB 1 (see related thread), but you won't have the speed associated with USB 2.  Check www.pricewatch.com for prices.*



i know that about usb 2.  all i'm saying is, all the usb 2 drives i've seen seem rather pricey, and my friend and i would rather just pick up a simple usb 1 drive and not have to spend that much.  thanks for the link, btw.



> *My 250 MB Zip drive caused my iMac a number of problems before it broke down, including frequently freezing the system during startup after restarting from a crash (this is all in OS 9, BTW).  It also tended to mount Zip disks twice, which I think came from when I was trying to get it working after first getting it, and I hotswapped it, and something happened with that... I don't remember exactly, but when I plug a Zip drive into the computer, I have to force quit the Finder because it freezes (though it usually restarts just fine).*



exactly, their zip drives just seem worthless to me.  i used to have a 100mb one, and it would randomly initialize disks.  perfect for back up purposes. 



> *Good luck with your endeavors, Shifting.  You'll probably need it. *



thanks, man.  i see you have a beige as well, nice.  i still want to install X on the G3, but if not, at least i can stick with 9.2.


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## Arden (Aug 24, 2003)

Heh.  The beige G3's seem to have more issues with OS X due to outdated hardware, at least by Apple's standards.

Also, I think I damaged my Zip drive's mechanism because I stuck a number of personal checks into it.  Hindsight is 20/20, and this was undoubtedly a bad idea because the drive stopped working after that.  I'm not sure why I did it, I think I wanted them readily available where they wouldnt get knocked off the desk or anything.  I should have put them under something...

So word to the wiser: don't stick anything into a slot that isn't made to fit in there in the first place, unless you're a technician for the drive's company of course.


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