# Apple Announces MacBook Pro



## kainjow (Jan 10, 2006)

drool here

Things to note:
- dual core! Prices: $2000 and $2500
- 15" only
- new magnetic power connector so if it gets yanked, it comes off loosely instead of taking your computer with it
- built-in iSight
- FrontRow and remote
- modem not built-in (sold separately)
- serial ATA
- one FW 400 port, no FW 800


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## powermac (Jan 10, 2006)

Looks like a sweet machine. Jealous all ready.....


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

But an ExpressCard slot. And: You can still get the PPC versions. For all those who really want 4-times-slower performance but for nostalgy...


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## j79 (Jan 10, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> But an ExpressCard slot. And: You can still get the PPC versions. For all those who really want 4-times-slower performance but for nostalgy...



Although, the PPC version does carry the name, "PowerBook", instead of "MacBook Pro"..


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## powermac (Jan 10, 2006)

Not sure I am a big fan of the name. But the future looks bright for the Laptop.


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## kainjow (Jan 10, 2006)

Appears to be missing dual-layer burning?


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## Randy Singer (Jan 10, 2006)

Instead of a PCCard/PCMCIA slot, the MacBook Pro has the new ExpressCard.

http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/standardsummary.jsp

No FireWire 800.  FireWire 800 is probably dead.

Apple's current Pro applications, including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express and Final Cut Express, are NOT supported by Rosetta, and they will NOT run on Intel-based Macs!

If you have the PowerPC versions of these applications, you must purchase the "Universal" upgrade version of these applications.

http://www.apple.com/uk/rosetta/


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## MacFreak (Jan 10, 2006)

Seem to me that they didnt remove firewire port as what we hear the rumors apple might drop firewire.


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

Yep. FW400 still there, only FW800 gone.


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 10, 2006)

Hmmm....
Interesting but I will pass....

What I love:
Front Row + remote
Intel inside
Built-in iSight
Magnetic power cable


What I Dislike:
lack of universal apps
What will I do with my PCMCIA cards now ?!
Only one FW port 
No S-Video out
Need more HD space, please  How about one of those perpendicular drives? 


What I could care less about:
no modem...I have not used dialup in 3 years 


What I wonder:
where do you store the remote ?!


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 10, 2006)

battery life is my main question


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## Veljo (Jan 10, 2006)

Yeah, the lack of two FireWire ports is a bit of a bummer. Now you have to unplug an external drive if you want to capture some video.

Still, I like it and if I had the cash I'd buy one.


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## Golfer099 (Jan 10, 2006)

I'm bummed about the lack of dual layer dvd writing and the fw 800

i suppose it shall suffice because the only pc cards i have are fw400, usb2 and wireless 80211b which are now built in

i ddi hope to burn dl dvds


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## Golfer099 (Jan 10, 2006)

why didn't they mention the battery life - they put like "it depends"


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

AdmiralAK said:
			
		

> What I wonder:
> where do you store the remote ?!



As a notebook user, you'll either leave the remote at home, or you'll put it inside your notebook bag. Problem solved?


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## kainjow (Jan 10, 2006)

Hands-on with the MacBook Pro


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

nice pics.  I wonder what people have to say about its performance. I mean: We all know it's not _really_ 4-5 times faster in everyday tasks. (We've been bashing those benchmarks for years now, now Apple is using the very benchmarks PC users used to bash us with when we were PowerPC...) So will it make a big difference in real world tasks? I'm looking forward to seeing the first reports of HandBrake transforming a DVD to a nice little MPEG-4 etc. as well as reports on how often one sees the dreaded beachball cursor...


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## Quietly (Jan 10, 2006)

Just a couple of thoughts...

1) Might the move away from FW800 not be a precursor to the adoption of 1394c - I might have misunderstood but I believe it will combine hot-pluggability, fast transfer rates and networking features (ie. replace ethernet) all into a single standard?

2) That remote - would it be possible to use it with, say, Keynote presentations? Or is it Front Row only?


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 10, 2006)

it can be used in keynote  (says so on the website)


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## Veljo (Jan 10, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> nice pics.  I wonder what people have to say about its performance. I mean: We all know it's not _really_ 4-5 times faster in everyday tasks. (We've been bashing those benchmarks for years now, now Apple is using the very benchmarks PC users used to bash us with when we were PowerPC...) So will it make a big difference in real world tasks? I'm looking forward to seeing the first reports of HandBrake transforming a DVD to a nice little MPEG-4 etc. as well as reports on how often one sees the dreaded beachball cursor...


Well it was 4-5 times faster in integer and floating point tests which are important. Steve did say that you wouldn't get 4-5 times faster performance from everyday tasks, which is totally understandable.


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

yes. ... hm. doesn't exactly answer my questions, but I guess we'll hear more about them sooner or later.


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## djbeta (Jan 10, 2006)

MacBook Pro

I think that name sucks... pretty bad. I'm not alone either.. most people I've spoken to think it bites.

Powerbook was a great name.. why'd they have to ruin it ?

booooooooooo

the features look nice and I dig the darker color.

I wonder how much faster it _really _is.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 10, 2006)

is anyone else a little dissapointed  by this? i mean, it feels a bit sort of two steps forward, one step back...


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

What exactly do you mean? I think they should've used the best available processor (2.16 GHz Yonah instead of 1.83 GHz Yonah), but otherwise...

TheRegister thinks Apple's intel computers should be lower-priced, because they now use intel processors. However: I just tried to configure a Dell notebook until it matched the 1999 USD model, and it came out at 2014 USD or something (with a lesser graphics card and an older processor, too..., because neither Yonah processors nor newer graphics cards were available at dell.com), so I'd say Apple's got the pricing right.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 10, 2006)

i dunno... i was expecting more, the mac fanboy in me wanted all the things we've been specualtating and then some.


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## kainjow (Jan 10, 2006)

djbeta said:
			
		

> MacBook Pro
> 
> I think that name sucks... pretty bad. I'm not alone either.. most people I've spoken to think it bites.
> 
> ...


Steve said it himself: they want to get away from the term "Power" because they're moving away from PowerPC, and they also want to get the word "Mac" into their product names too.

I wonder what they'll call the Intel Power Macs? Also, anyone want to bet the iBooks will be renamed to MacBooks?


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

PowerBook -> MacBook Pro
iMac -> iMac
Mac mini -> Mac mini
iBook -> MacBook (just without the Pro tag)
PowerMac -> Mac Pro
Xserve -> Xserve. (I know, doesn't contain "Mac", but it's a server. I don't think they need the "Mac" in that...)


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 10, 2006)

MacMac Pro!


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

Btw.: Those who said things like "a Mac with an intel processor will merely be a PC from Apple"... Do they still think like that? To me this new iMac and MacBook look pretty much like Macs. Not like Wintel PCs...


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 10, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yep. FW400 still there, only FW800 gone.



Boy that's gotta hurt current PowerBook users that bought FW800 external drives for the performance. If they have to get rid of it, they should wait until there's something better.


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 10, 2006)

djbeta said:
			
		

> MacBook Pro
> 
> I think that name sucks... pretty bad. I'm not alone either.. most people I've spoken to think it bites.
> 
> ...



I don't like the new name either, I suppose it's to differentitate between Intel and PPC.


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 10, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> What exactly do you mean? I think they should've used the best available processor (2.16 GHz Yonah instead of 1.83 GHz Yonah), but otherwise...
> 
> TheRegister thinks Apple's intel computers should be lower-priced, because they now use intel processors. However: I just tried to configure a Dell notebook until it matched the 1999 USD model, and it came out at 2014 USD or something (with a lesser graphics card and an older processor, too..., because neither Yonah processors nor newer graphics cards were available at dell.com), so I'd say Apple's got the pricing right.


Probably saving it for the 17" or perhaps a 20" MacBook Pro.


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## fryke (Jan 10, 2006)

That's what I fear: Apple continuing their strange policy of exclusive choices... Why oh why can't I choose 

1) 15" and pay a price for the form factor/screen as well as integrated features
2) processor and pay for it
3) rest of the features...

I mean: Would it _really_ hurt them to sell me the MacBook I really _want_? 

(Personally for me, that'd be the 10" widescreen core duo ULV ~1.6 GHz.)


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 10, 2006)

I thought i was great. only thing I was disappointed was no Mac Mini. I intended to buy one to replace my VCR. I've been holding off buying a DVD/HDD recorder ont he assumption that mac mini will come out with Front Row. 

ah well, I can wait another few months.

EDIT:  Oh, wand what was with iWork? That was just embarassingly crap! Nothing worth upgrading for at all!


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## jprupas (Jan 10, 2006)

Still no right mouse button????  Grrrrr....!!!!

They should have stuck with the name "PowerBook"  the new name sounds confusing. 

Everything else on it looks Good!!!!


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 10, 2006)

jprupas said:
			
		

> Still no right mouse button????  Grrrrr....!!!!
> 
> They should have stuck with the name "PowerBook"  the new name sounds confusing.
> 
> Everything else on it looks Good!!!!




iBook & iBook Pro wouldn't of been so bad.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 10, 2006)

I think iBook pro would also have been confusing, because the 'i' is appended to all consumer-grade products, not pro hardware. 

am i the only one left in the world who likes the 1-mouse button thing?


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## jprupas (Jan 10, 2006)

I like it but most people don't understand how to use the command key. Especially people who come from windows. My parents both have Ibooks and have had Macs their whole life. They honestly don't understand/remember how to use the command key to show more options. For power users I think the one-click is fine, but for the masses the right click should be there.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 10, 2006)

Yea true. I guess what they really should do is have the single button ont he MacBook detect which side was pressed - left or right - and act accordingly. However, it should be set to 1 button by default (much like the mighty Mouse, which can look and act like a 1 button if you want it to)


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## mdnky (Jan 10, 2006)

I'm kind of split on the new one...definitely don't like the loss of a FW port, PC slot (what's the status on selection of ExpressCards...haven't seen any myself), lack of s-video, etc.  Their refusal to provide even a ballpark estimate on battery life (it has a bigger battery than the 15" HD G4 did) also worries me a bit.  The change in screen aspect is a bit of an annoyance...I love the 3:2 aspect of the current 15" G4...though at least it went wider than shorter.  Adding a web-cam is a novel idea, but the added bezel caused by this is ugly and annoying to me...so it's not really worth it in my opinion.

On the plus side...it's got a heck of a graphics card built in via PCI-Express...that's nice.  From the tests I've seen (not Mac) of the new processor, it's fast...very fast.  That's always a good thing.  Being thinner is also a nice thing IMO.  The power-adapter is a great idea...long overdue.


After thinking about it for a while, I'm glad I bought my 15" PB before I had to make a decision on buying a PowerBook or MacBook Pro.  I'm at 36 days now, so luckily I'm stuck with the PB (probably for the best).

Does make you wonder what they'll do with the iBook...probably single core versions, but will they be at the same frequency or lower...something to ponder.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 10, 2006)

Perhaps the iBooks will feature the same Core Duo processor, but be clocked significantly lower -- 1.2 to 1.6GHz range.  The iBooks' battery life would then be a selling point of the computer -- like it was with the iPod photo over the monochrome 4th generation iPod (what was it -- like 8 to 10 hours vs. 15 hours on the photo model?).

Steve showed us that the G4 scored ~0.26 on performance per watt, while the Core Duo scored over 1.0.  They boosted the brightness (and quality?) of the screen, though, so I'd expect the battery life to be somewhere close to what it is currently... so while the processor may be more power efficient (is it?), the screen surely sucks up more power than previous generations.  Hopefully we'll know in early February!


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## waiting_for_OSX (Jan 10, 2006)

I own a G4 Cube. I haven't bought anything from Apple since the Cube except upgrades to OS X ( and I didn't buy Tiger because I thought it wasn't worth $120 ), and a few keyboards. When I grew dissatisfied with the level of maturity of OS X, I took the nick name "waiting_for_OSX" and I have since made many complaints about OS X and Apple hardware on this website.

OS X has improved a lot, but I wish it had a centralized uninstaller like Windows XP. I'm sure some people will say we don't need one but, we do. Some programs keep data in seperate files in seperate directories and I don't want to hunt that junk down to delete it.

Upon hearing that Apple is finally switching to Intel, I decided to take another look. I haven't been this excited about a computer since the day I bought my Cube. The MacBook Pro is great! I compared the price and features against Alienware and Apple finished looking equally matched with a better design. At this time, I truely believe that Apple-Intel hardware is the best overall PC hardware. For my needs, this computer has no flaws.

So two hours after Jobs anounced the MacBook Pro, I put down my $2668.00 and bought one! Am I worried about battery life? No, I'm buying this as a desktop replacement so it's going to plugged in most of the time. According to the Apple website, the shipping date will be February 15, which means Friday Feb 17 or Monday Feb 20 delivery.

BTW - I'm guessing the new iBooks will be called just "MacBooks", i.e., MacBooks and MacBook Pros.


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## symphonix (Jan 11, 2006)

I'm pretty pleased to see that Apple have launched two rather attractive Intel-based Macs today.

*What I liked:*
- Mag-safe power cord
- Built-in iSight & Front Row remote on the Macbook
- New iPhoto. Lets face it, I don't really care about the rest of the iLife and iWork apps.

*What I'm confused over:*
- Loss of modem. Come on, some people still find themselves in a hotel in some backward place where "wireless" and "broadband" are both met with confused stares. Still, I think this is like ditching the floppy disk - a step that only Apple was really brave enough to take first. I mean, both are useless in the current context, and people avoid using them, and yet PC makers still include them because people *think* they need them.
- Battery life on the new Macbook? Anyone care to give us a reading of the time remaining on a running Macbook with average settings for screen brightness and so on?
- Whats new in iWork, really?
- What is this new "Mini store" thing in iTunes. I must be blind because I can't see any hint of what its about.

*What Mac fans guessed *right* in the pre-keynote rumours:*
- Firewire port ditched. I mean, really, this was the one rumour floating around that I never would have believed for a second.

*What we got wrong:*
- Mac mini update
- Any sort of PVR / movie service / etc.
- Pretty much everything we speculated on in the rumours forums.

*What I'm grateful for:*
- That Macworld this year really was about new Mac hardware and software, and not about iPod this, iPod that.


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2006)

ElDiablo: I don't really think they'd take a 'normal' Core Duo and clock it lower. That's where the ULVs (ultra low voltage) would come in. But they're more expensive. I certainly hope that the iBook-replacement (hate to see that name go... :/) starts with a Core Duo 1.67 GHz just like the MacBook Pro. The Pro could then move up to 2 and 2.16 GHz.


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## doemel (Jan 11, 2006)

I hate the new name. Do You?


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2006)

"ist teh stoopid!!11!!"? ... Yeah, I, erh, get this... And no, I don't think so.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2006)

As far as I can remember there was also a very cheap single core Yonah version. It makes sense to me that this will be used with the new iBooks. 
I am quite impressed by the new MacBook but to me the battery duration would be an important spec as well. I am very suprised there is no information about that available. As some mentioned before, it makes me very suspicious..


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 11, 2006)

they didn't ditch firewire completely, they still have the 400 though, i mean who uses firewire 800???  There are only two things that actually use firewire 800 that i am aware of at the time and they are both proffessional RAID harddrives.

We all know that apple has been ditching dialup with all their computers (iMac, Mac Mini, G5s) don't come with one anymore, but a lot of travelers still use dialup in hotels.  granted more and more hotels are using wireless, but it's not 100% yet.

Macbook?  it will take some time to get used to the name...better than Mactel


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2006)

RGrphc2 said:
			
		

> We all know that apple has been ditching dialup with all their computers (iMac, Mac Mini, G5s) don't come with one anymore, but a lot of travelers still use dialup in hotels.  granted more and more hotels are using wireless, but it's not 100% yet.


Well, if someone drops $2000 on a new MacBook and travels a lot, I'm sure a measley $50 more for a modem wouldn't be the end of the world.


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## Mikuro (Jan 11, 2006)

I don't like that Apple's ditching modems. Even if everyone had broadband (which...uhh...no), modems are still useful for faxing. And yes, people still send faxes!

And Apple's external modem is way too expensive. And naturally cumbersome.



			
				symphonix said:
			
		

> *What Mac fans guessed *right* in the pre-keynote rumours:*
> - Firewire port ditched. I mean, really, this was the one rumour floating around that I never would have believed for a second.


Huh? What? I just checked, and FireWire's still there. You practically gave me a heart attack, man! (I'd never heard this speculation to begin with, so maybe I misunderstood your point.)

I'm a little surprised that there's no FireWire 800, though (the old high-end PowerBook had it), especially since there's nothing else to take its place. I mean, you could argue that you don't need FireWire when you have USB2, but FireWire 800 is by far the fastest thing out there. *shrug* I really wonder what kind of devices I should buy now. Is FireWire 800 simply on its way out? Is Apple going to yank FireWire 400 with the next round of updates? Hrm...


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## ora (Jan 11, 2006)

RGrphc2 said:
			
		

> they didn't ditch firewire completely, they still have the 400 though, i mean who uses firewire 800???  There are only two things that actually use firewire 800 that i am aware of at the time and they are both proffessional RAID harddrives.



Erm, how about all that Lacie triple interface kit? (FW400/FW800/USB2). I have two of them (a 250gb hd and a dvd writer).


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## mi5moav (Jan 11, 2006)

If you go to this page it seems to say that you don't need a stinking modem in your new macbook or imac  http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/faxing/

I called up Apple tech support and they just didn't understand this at all. So, they are sending me a free modem, haha... what a crazy thing. The sadest thing is that I emailed Apple 3 times and even called up tech support a month ago with my isight and told a genius at the Apple store. They just won't change that page??? Makes no sense... are they building in efax or jfax support?  Yes, some ISP's may allow faxing through your cable modem but I think Apple better fix that page or a lot of people are going to get free modems, or worse yet another lawsuit.


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## MacFreak (Jan 11, 2006)

Anyway, 

    I am very happy how they turn MacBook Pro with duo, 256mb video card. Thats great! Only thing that disappointed me that they dont have DL Dvd. Grr.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 11, 2006)

Doesn't the recent G4 powerbooks superdrive support burning dual-layer DVDs? So, why didn't they use that one? I kinda believe it's supported but not mentioned. What do you think?


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2006)

mi5moav: The OS supports it. Doesn't mean a modem is included with, what, the OS? ... Only because OS X supports colour printing, you also don't expect you don't need a printer or that you can suddenly print in colour on a black/white laser printer...?


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## mw84 (Jan 11, 2006)

Comment I read in another forum about the new MacBooks which somehow really started to irritate me:

_does this means i can run 3dsmax in that mac laptop? do i need osx installed in it or can i just have windows?_

sacrilegious ! 

Another was:

_Exactly. All I want is a powerbook-sized XP laptop. So if there's an easy way to setup a "macbook pro" to boot with XP without the hassle, I'll go buy one. If you can even totally wipe OSX out, that's an added plus_

Irritating !

EDIT: Just to add this forum is one largely populated by graphic designers/ photographers, the kind of people who will be buying macs.


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2006)

Just think about it this way: Every MacBook sold adds to Mac OS X' marketshare in numbers, because it comes with an OS X license. Everyone who actually _buys_ a Mac could still be lured into keeping it a dual-boot experience or to later reinstall OS X completely (without Windows). And if you _meet_ someone with a MacBook which hasn't got OS X on it, you can still ask him or her: "Don't you feel stupid to have bought a secure computer and then compromising it by installing a virus, erh, I mean Windows?"


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## mw84 (Jan 11, 2006)

I just think there's that slight danger of Apple becoming best known as a designer of pretty computers rather than the creators of a brilliant OS. 

In my opinion for a lot of people the initial allure of switching from pc to mac is, be it superficial or not, is the 'pretty' hardware and having that made people willing to give the OS a shot and after getting used to it they generally love it. Now a lot of these consumers who have spent their computing lives using Windows will just think what the hell, I'm not going to bother, lets just install Windows and have a pretty Mac casing. 

Maybe good for Apple as a business, they'll sell more hardware but I can't help thinking it will lower or atleast not largely increase the amount of future Apple consumers who actually use Mac OS X.


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## doemel (Jan 11, 2006)

mw84 said:
			
		

> Comment I read in another forum about the new MacBooks which somehow really started to irritate me



Don't let yourself be irritated by that too much. It's the overall experience (hardarware & software) that counts. The poor ingnorants *want* Windows? Let them have it! I don't pity masochists either. If they are graphic designer they pretty much disqualify as such for me when they seriously consider working under Windows on a Mac. There's absolutely no point. I'm not a graphic designer myself but am friends with several individuals who are (heck, my brother is one of them and he works for a company which is regarded as being very competent and creative) and none of them would consider that option even in their dreams.
You have to realize that there's different kind of graphic designers who play on different levels of quality. Consider that Corel is also used by some so called graphic designer.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 11, 2006)

doemel said:
			
		

> Consider that Corel is also used by some so called graphic designer.


Heh... never trust someone who claims to be a designer yet uses Corel products.  

That's like trusting a doctor who still practices bloodletting!


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## mdnky (Jan 11, 2006)

That kind of reminds me of a video we used to show at the department during AED classes...Mr. Bean using jumper cables and a car (car battery) to shock a guy.


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## Timotheos100 (Jan 11, 2006)

Im pretty gutted they dont have a 12 inch version.

What i like most about powerbooks (apart from the OS, which obviously all macs have) is the size and how thin it is, but theres no point in having a thin lap top when the smallest screen size you can get is 15 inch. Hopefully they will release a smaller macBook Pro.

Another down side is the lack of dial up connection, if i brought a $2000 model (close to 4k New Zealand dollars) then im not at all keen to pay another $100 (NZD) so i can connect to the internet when im home from university. (i currently use wireless while at uni)

But of course im not planning to upgrade from my 12 inch PB until i leave design school (another 3 years) so hopefully i wont ever need to have to use dial up by then.

I also perfure the lighter grey over the darker color they now have


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## Ripcord (Jan 11, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> "ist teh stoopid!!11!!"? ... Yeah, I, erh, get this... And no, I don't think so.



The 5-year-old's comment aside, I agree - the rename is a very poor move.  Perhaps not quite as much in the pro sector, a reasonable amount of Apple sales draw (and certainly its marketing) is the "cool factor", and "MacBook Pro" is just too awkward to be cool.

No one sitting at Starbucks would mind talking about their "new PowerBook!!".  They might, however, hesitate before they start jammering about their "new MacBook Pro!!".

It seems minor, but it's not an insignificant observation to make when you note that in the various forums discussing the new 'book, about 25% of the comments are discussing the terribleness of the new name.


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## gerbick (Jan 12, 2006)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Heh... never trust someone who claims to be a designer yet uses Corel products.
> 
> That's like trusting a doctor who still practices bloodletting!


lol.  that's quite the remark.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 12, 2006)

would you believe my uni taught us vector graphics using Corel Draw? Even though Illustrator was right there next to it. 

I still haven't forgiven them.


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## MHPb (Jan 12, 2006)

Okay, apparently, Windows won't be working on those machines anytime soon.

Not until Vista...


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## gerbick (Jan 12, 2006)

Thank The Cheese said:
			
		

> would you believe my uni taught us vector graphics using Corel Draw? Even though Illustrator was right there next to it.
> 
> I still haven't forgiven them.


My Uni taught both... CorelDraw 2.0 and Illustrator 4.0 at the same time.


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 12, 2006)

MHPb said:
			
		

> Okay, apparently, Windows won't be working on those machines anytime soon.
> 
> Not until Vista...



Are these the first ever dual core x86 laptops?


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## mdnky (Jan 12, 2006)

Oscar Castillo said:
			
		

> Are these the first ever dual core x86 laptops?



Depends on how you look at it.  Alienware has been offering a gaming laptop that has the AMD 64 X2 chip in it for a few months now.  In reality, the MacBook Pro is probably the first laptop that's usable as a laptop with dual cores.  The Alienware system isn't really designed for use as a laptop (battery life is misreable)...it's more for those gaming die-hards who drag a computer to different places to play.  In a nutshell, it's easier to carry/move than a complete system (tower and monitor, etc.).


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 12, 2006)

I suppose the first ever Intel x86 dual core laptop.


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2006)

erh, not really. CES showed quite a few, acer has already released some for example, heise.de had a list of about 12 makers of Centrino Duo notebooks makers listed. Most were announced at CES or even before that.


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 13, 2006)

Shouldn't these laptops also use EFI? If so, how will WinXP run on those? By the way, isn't Yonah 64bit?


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## dracolich (Jan 13, 2006)

I guess this is the first time in years that Apple has named a product the wrong way. 

PowerBook was the strongest brand-level name in all the laptop market. To discard it - privileging the Mac part of the brand - seems to mean thay really are worried about losing their OS-hardware identification.

Simply put: how could you find the courage to run Windows on a Mac?


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## fryke (Jan 13, 2006)

They don't have to use EFI, and the EFI can contain classic BIOS.


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## Shookster (Jan 13, 2006)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Shouldn't these laptops also use EFI? If so, how will WinXP run on those? By the way, isn't Yonah 64bit?



EFI was invented by Intel and has not yet become a standard (and may not - BTX anyone?). They may not be using Intel motherboards.


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 13, 2006)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> By the way, isn't Yonah 64bit?



I thought it was but after searching around it turns out the Duo is not 64 bit, but the Merom (the Dual Core Desktop Based on the Pentium M) is.

The Duo is a mobile laptop chip...not a desktop chip


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## Zammy-Sam (Jan 13, 2006)

Shookster said:
			
		

> EFI was invented by Intel and has not yet become a standard (and may not - BTX anyone?). They may not be using Intel motherboards.


Thought so too, but I wondered: if Acer and Co. are releasing Yonah laptops that early, there might be only the intel reference board available coming with EFI. But it wouldn't make sense to release such a laptop without a fitting windows version.


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## limike28 (Jan 13, 2006)

I would somewhat agree with the name being wrong.  I understand the idea of discarding "power" since it does not use the ppc.   And I think it does make sense to reaffirm that these systems are macs.  I don't think the name flows as well as powerbook, or ibook, or maybe it takes some getting used to.  I'm just going to keep repeating it til it sounds normal.


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## Krevinek (Jan 13, 2006)

Zammy-Sam said:
			
		

> Thought so too, but I wondered: if Acer and Co. are releasing Yonah laptops that early, there might be only the intel reference board available coming with EFI. But it wouldn't make sense to release such a laptop without a fitting windows version.



EFI can emulate classic BIOS through a CSM (Compatibility Support Module) that is added to the implementation by the vendor. However, Apple has zero reason to write and include a CSM. Video cards are handled in EFI in a similar manner as OpenFirmware, meaning it makes sense to just make the full leap and get EFI-compatible video card firmware rather than write up a CSM. (ATi has hinted at this with their interview with IMG) And video cards would be the main reason why Apple would have a CSM in the first place. 

So what is happening is that Apple will still need specific video cards on their platform... and Apple's hardware until Merom will not boot any flavor of Windows software.

Apparently what is happening is that MS decided that 32-bit EFI was a waste of effort that could be spent elsewhere. Because of this, the Duo-based PC offerings will at the very least be using a CSM + EFI firmware, or a classic BIOS firmware. This will allow Windows to boot just fine without EFI support.

So unless Apple includes a CSM at the last minute that we aren't aware of, or Apple moves over to 64-bit chips really fast (screwing the early adopters anyways), we will be running Windows in QEMU/VPC or the like for awhile.


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## fryke (Jan 13, 2006)

Switching to 64-bit processors would in no way be screwing early adopters. Mac OS X will run on both 32-bit and 64-bit processors for a long while to come, and 64-bit computers have still got to prove any real-world improvement over 32-bit computers. So far, for consumers as well as most professionals (some special uses spring to mind, of course), it's nothing more than a buzzword.


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## Krevinek (Jan 13, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Switching to 64-bit processors would in no way be screwing early adopters. Mac OS X will run on both 32-bit and 64-bit processors for a long while to come, and 64-bit computers have still got to prove any real-world improvement over 32-bit computers. So far, for consumers as well as most professionals (some special uses spring to mind, of course), it's nothing more than a buzzword.



Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean it in quite that sense. I meant it in a 'ZOMG! It can run Windoze!!!eleventy-one' sense. Without that CSM, dual-booting is an exercise of high-risk until 64-bit chips come out and we can run Vista or XP 64 on those. Drivers would be barrels of fun though, now that I think about it... Apple is keeping quite a bit of custom interfaces in their machines, even though the core chipset is standard Intel fare.

Quite simply, I give /very/ good odds towards the prediction that anyone who buys one of these 32-bit Intel systems will not be running Windows stand-alone on them for a very, very, very long time.


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## Shookster (Jan 13, 2006)

Well, they managed to get Linux running on iPods. I think someone's likely to be able to do it, but they may be have to take drastic measures in order to do so.


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## irocnroll (Jan 13, 2006)

mdnky said:
			
		

> I'm kind of split on the new one...definitely don't like the loss of a FW port, PC slot (what's the status on selection of ExpressCards...haven't seen any myself), lack of s-video, etc.  Their refusal to provide even a ballpark estimate on battery life (it has a bigger battery than the 15" HD G4 did) also worries me a bit.  The change in screen aspect is a bit of an annoyance...I love the 3:2 aspect of the current 15" G4...though at least it went wider than shorter.  Adding a web-cam is a novel idea, but the added bezel caused by this is ugly and annoying to me...so it's not really worth it in my opinion.
> 
> On the plus side...it's got a heck of a graphics card built in via PCI-Express...that's nice.  From the tests I've seen (not Mac) of the new processor, it's fast...very fast.  That's always a good thing.  Being thinner is also a nice thing IMO.  The power-adapter is a great idea...long overdue.
> 
> ...


yeppers, on that. I can't even type let alone muti-task beyond a hoot. my ibook suits me just fine, thank you


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## Chimp (Jan 14, 2006)

I guess Apple won't be comparing photoshop tests anymore.  Just checking out the AltiVec benchmark figures at the XBench website (db.xbench.com) The new Intel Mac scores 44.64, my 1GHz iBook gets 56.80. Aha I win... well except for just about every other bench I get severly stomped on.

No wonder Steve wasn't going to recommend running Photoshop on a MacBook for professionals.

<edit> yes I know its not a MacBook Pro benchmark, but heads up to the first one anyone sees.  There is currently a fake entry at fake MacBook which is really a 1.5GHz Powerbook, so watch out for those fakes.</edit>


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 14, 2006)

Chimp said:
			
		

> I guess Apple won't be comparing photoshop tests anymore.  Just checking out the AltiVec benchmark figures at the XBench website (db.xbench.com) The new Intel Mac scores 44.64, my 1GHz iBook gets 56.80. Aha I win... well except for just about every other bench I get severly stomped on.
> 
> No wonder Steve wasn't going to recommend running Photoshop on a MacBook for professionals.
> 
> <edit> yes I know its not a MacBook Pro benchmark, but heads up to the first one anyone sees.  There is currently a fake entry at fake MacBook which is really a 1.5GHz Powerbook, so watch out for those fakes.</edit>



Guess we'll all have to wait until the bechmark software runs native on the Core Duo Macs before we can get real numbers.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 14, 2006)

Not to mention that PhotoShop is running _natively_ on your PowerBook, but is running through _emulation_ on the core duo... that's not a bad score, considering!


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## Chimp (Jan 14, 2006)

Oscar Castillo said:
			
		

> Guess we'll all have to wait until the bechmark software runs native on the Core Duo Macs before we can get real numbers.


Wow... I'm stunned.  No - let's make that in love (sorry Powerbook)::love::

All I need is native WOW and some money, anybody got any change they could spare?


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## ibookemo (Jan 22, 2006)

Certainly looks like a great machine but my PowerBook is only a year old and I want it to last at least 3 so i'll be seeing quite a few revisions and bug fixes before I move to Intel. In the mean time I suppose the only way to keep my machine from getting slower is to not update to newer software which requires more processor power. I hope the Adobe CS 2 suite I use now will still cut it in 2 or 3 years time - what do you all think? I'm on 1GB of RAM right now so maybe i'll bump that in the future to try and keep up with things.


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## Oscar Castillo (Jan 22, 2006)

ibookemo said:
			
		

> Certainly looks like a great machine but my PowerBook is only a year old and I want it to last at least 3 so i'll be seeing quite a few revisions and bug fixes before I move to Intel. In the mean time I suppose the only way to keep my machine from getting slower is to not update to newer software which requires more processor power. I hope the Adobe CS 2 suite I use now will still cut it in 2 or 3 years time - what do you all think? I'm on 1GB of RAM right now so maybe i'll bump that in the future to try and keep up with things.



After the software you use is available as a universal binary then you could consider upgrading if you feel the hardware is stable enough for you. Since universal binaries are what we'll all be seeing available soon, my only question is whether the performace of a universal binary is any worse than an intel only binary. Aside from possible bloated file sizes, is there any overhead?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 22, 2006)

Nope, there's no performance penalty whatsoever -- the Intel machines simply execute the code located in an "Intel" branch of the binary, and likewise for the PowerPC machines.  The machine doesn't have to "pick and choose" the bits of code intended for it and discard the PowerPC bits -- the code is completely separate, so execution is isolated..

File size bloat is the only consideration -- we can already see it in the current universal binaries going around.


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## fryke (Jan 22, 2006)

Yes. And there's already free-/shareware which is able to strip the code unnecessary for the platform it's installed on, I hear, so that's no problem either.


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## kainjow (Jan 22, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yes. And there's already free-/shareware which is able to strip the code unnecessary for the platform it's installed on, I hear, so that's no problem either.


It's as easy as
_lipo -remove <arch> <input_file> -o <output_file_
where arch = "ppc" or "i386"


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## ksv (Jan 23, 2006)

Regarding the Xbench CPU test, it's merely a benchmark of Apple's vecLib routines, not at all representing actual performance of the processor when comparing processors with different instruction sets.
It all depends on the level of optimization for each processor type.

vecLib for Intel processors is still in development. Intel's compilers for Mac OS X just entered beta stage.


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## Veljo (Jan 30, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yes. And there's already free-/shareware which is able to strip the code unnecessary for the platform it's installed on, I hear, so that's no problem either.



No doubt a lot of developers will go for this. The Installer will determine if your machine is Intel/PPC and simply install what is needed.


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