# MS gets a taste of it's own medicine.



## dlookus (May 24, 2002)

I just have to point out the sweet, sweet irony in this article.

Microsoft is losing game titles to Sony because game publishers decide to go with the bigger player.

Snippet:
*Game publishers say it's a simple matter of economics. With Sony having sold more than 30 million PlayStation 2 units worldwide and the Xbox just edging up to the 4 million mark, they have to put their money where the market is. The result is that even the biggest Xbox supporters are producing two PlayStation 2 games for every Xbox title.*

Read the rest here.


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## dricci (May 24, 2002)

Ah, the sweet sound of Justice.


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## voice- (May 24, 2002)

May they lose much on this. MS has spent so much money advertising X-box that is they pull it now it will always stand as their #1 flopp. At this rate, it'll go to that place anyway...


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## AdmiralAK (May 24, 2002)

I love it


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## Bluefusion (May 24, 2002)

HOOOOOOOOOORAY!!!!!!!


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## Ricky (May 24, 2002)

All right!  

Xbox already failed MISERABLY in Japan.


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## Matrix Agent (May 24, 2002)

Is that free market competition I smell?


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## MacLone (May 24, 2002)

I have seen this before..................hmmm.......hmmm........Oh yes! i remember now: 
Mac Vs. Windows   
They put the money where the biz is...and is not in the 5% Mac market share.
I would like to see all those winblows games and apps on the Mac too.


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## kanecorp (May 24, 2002)

thats too bad cause XBOX IS THE BEST and so is MICROSOFT!!


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## mr_mac_x (May 24, 2002)

I hope that the Xbox dies a *miserable death*


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## googolplex (May 24, 2002)

The only difference is sony isn't being anti-competitive and monopolistic.


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## chemistry_geek (May 24, 2002)

Well, I've seen the PlayStation2 side by side with the XBox, and the PS2 is kicking XBox's teeth with steel-toed boots.  The REALLY FUNNY part about this ordeal is that M$ thinks it can beat Sony by pumping up the propaganda.  IMHO, there really is no comparison between the two, the XBox may as well be a 1970's PONG game console, with the rotary dials built-in to the main console.  M$ may be able to B$ the computer industry with inferior products, but it won't win the gaming industry with that strategy, the best and fastest, most powerful system wins, EVERY TIME, and XBox ain't it.

XBox needs to die an *EXPENSIVE miserable death*.  I hope M$ sinks another billion into it.  I suppose your getting an idea of how well I "like" M$.  Billy boy needs to lose a few battles and wars.


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## mr_mac_x (May 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by chemistry_geek _
> *XBox needs to die an EXPENSIVE miserable death.  I hope M$ sinks another billion into it.  I suppose your getting an idea of how well I "like" M$.  Billy boy needs to lose a few battles and wars. *



Ditto.

Of course, now Microsoft will probably do whatever they can (illegally) to save the Xbox, and it'll probably work, too, just like the Compaq/Netscape thing however long ago. And then Microsoft will have another monopoly.


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## iscaro (May 25, 2002)

Why should someone buy an X-box anyway?

It is expensive... Playstation2 hs so many different good titles, not only one (HALO)... 

Alll your friends have a Playstation2... you can even play PSOne titles... you can watch good quality DVDs... 

And if you don't care for SONY...

THEN BUY A CUBE!!!!  It is much much better that the X-box!!!  Just look at the good titles coming out!    

I hate M$ anyway... I used to have PCs all around... now I can't stand them  


Ciao


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## .dev.lqd (May 25, 2002)

I still think the Xbox has a few things going for it... particularly the built in harddrive, and I wouldn't say that the graphics capabilities are that far behind the PS2, if they even are.

As for Sony... you can find places to listen to people *****. They've their share of dirty deeds involving the PS2. I will say that I like the design much better (compared to Sony's PC's... which are an entirely different story).

One game that makes me want to buy an Xbox just for it is Project Ego... the sheer depth of this game is daunting. I don't see it as a viable option for the playstation given its limited memory storage, unless they sell a special hard drive with the game that plugs into firewire (AND REQUIRES A SEPERATE POWER SUPPLY BECAUSE STUPID SONY WANTED TO PROMOTE THEIR STUPID, WEAK, i.LINK!!!!!!GERRRRRRRR).

Anywho... yeah... yeah... it's always nice to see Bill fail, because when Bill fails, Steve Balmer is funny... and who doesn't enjoy watching Steve Balmer degenerate into one of his screaming fits?


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## phatsharpie (May 25, 2002)

I remember seeing the PS2 harddrive module a while back. I can't imagine the PS2 not having a HD expansion when Star War Galaxy Online comes out.

Comparing the Xbox and the PS2, I have to say that I like the PS2 better, simply because its industrial design is so much better, it just looks sleeker and more refined compared to the Xbox... It's like comparing a BMW to a Lincoln. Both are luxurious and powerful, but which would you rather been seen in?

In terms of power, the Xbox has the advantage, but that means nothing until games come out that actually takes advantage of it. Since it usually takes at least an year before a game developer can fully exploit a console (remember PS2's antialiasing problems when it was launched?), I'd rather wait and buy a Xbox then, since MS will probably drop the price some more...

Anyway, I'd rather get a GameCube!


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## 10bellies (May 25, 2002)

Since buying my GameCube, my PS2 hasn't been turned on, except to watch some Region 1 DVDs

I am an absolute 'early adopter' e.g.
I paid £580 for a CDi on it's release date.
£80 for an original 'brick' GameBoy on it's release date.
£300 (i think) for a PlayStation on it's release date.
£400 for a Sega Saturn on it's release date.
£250 for a N64 on it's release date.
£300 for a PS2 on it's release date.
£130 for a GameCube on it's release date.

But, there is *nothing* that would make me buy a XBox.
Not even Halo, which lets be honest, is just another PC-based first person shooter.

It's got a harddrive and broadband connectivity...So what? All that means is developers will become as lazy with their XBox software as they are with their PC software, because they can just release yet another patch to correct the mistakes that wouldn't be tolerated on the GC or PS2.

Get a GameCube, a few extra controllers, a copy of Super Monkey Ball, Lots of alcohol and 3 friends.
Then kiss the night goodbye.


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## anrkngl (May 25, 2002)

10bellies: is that a 3-eyed vorticon? 

I'd say that msft xbox developers may have a reason to be lazy with the hdd in the system, but so far none of them have been.

I'll never buy an xbox because after I bought my new iMac, I decided that MS wouldn't get pennies from me any more. It's a matter of principle. I don't want their junk in my house anymore.

The PS2 is 3 years old, and has 30 million systems out there. For that reason and that reason alone, I'll be sticking with the PS2 for now. I like the gamecube, even though I barely used my N64. 

My PS2 has become my official DVD player, and my Philips 711 now sits idle. The Philips is sitting idle because it doesn't have video sharpening or DNR built in. And the cable I got for my PS2 brings in video a lot blacker than the one I have on the Philips (which is a Philips cable, surprisingly)

I eventually plan to get either a TV accepting component video or a project supporting the same, and I'll be upgrading my cabling to update accordingly. I'll probably at that point get a progressive scan DVD player though. But the PS2 will grow with the system.


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

Have any of you seen the Xbox controller?  It's as big as a dinner plate with bratwursts on either side


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## Matrix Agent (May 25, 2002)

I heard the gamecube controller was quite nice.

Up to this point, the most luxurious controller i've used is the N64 controller, nice egonomic design, with an analog joystick that actually offers some resistance, plus the buttons have actual names, rather than those goofy little shapes. 

Anyone else have a favorite controller?


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

My fav is the GameCube.  It's just really comfy and makes a whole lot of sense.


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## Bluefusion (May 25, 2002)

Uggggh. Nintendo's controller designers have always been (and still are) the worst of any. The Xbox controller, if your hands are big enough, is actually not nearly as annoying as you'd think, except for the black and white buttons, which are placed in an area where you can never really tell what button you're pushing. But Nintendo's designs... ugh. The NES was a joke. The Super NES was a joke (this, at the time that Sega had the Genesis controller!!!), the N64... oh, don't get me started. A big, ugly, completely unnatural controller with an extra handle for no apparent reason (the whole group of buttons on the left side shouldn't have been there at all, since you would have to switch your hand position to even use them!) and the GameCube controller, while I admit is probably the best one Nintendo has done, is still ridiculously unrefined compared to the PlayStation's. I mean, what's not to like about the PS2 controller? It fits perfectly in your hands; the buttons are in exactly the right places, and you don't think about USING a controller--it just becomes part of your game. For me at least, I always liked the shapes. It's a bit odd, but I thought they were kind of inventive. In any case though, the controller design is just FAR better. I don't own ANY game consoles at all (except for a Genesis/SegaCD/Sega 32x combo ) but really, the PS2's controller is just much more intuitive...

I always liked the Dreamcast controller, myself... but that's just me.


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

Yes, but when was the last time you used the right analog stick on your PS 2 controller, hm?  

Anyways, I should post something related to the topic.

*Xbox should fail miserably and be a humiliation for Bill Gates and his company.*


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## Bluefusion (May 25, 2002)

1) I don't own a PS2 
2) It's not used tremendously often, but it IS used, and it's under your thumb when you DO need it. The N64's extra buttons are NEVER in the right place, and the GameCube's shoulder buttons are so cheap and flimsy (and require your hands to move to get to them) that they're far more annoying.
3) I agree with that part completely  *XBOX (AND ALL OF MICROSOFT) NEEDS TO DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH FOR ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THEY'VE CAUSED PEOPLE AND ALL OF THE BS WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH, AS MAC USERS, SINCE WINDOWS 95.* There we go.


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## voice- (May 25, 2002)

Ummm....feeling angry, guys?


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

No, just vengeful.


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## mrfluffy (May 25, 2002)

the N64 has the best controller (although i havent used a game cube yet), the trigger (z) makes perfect sense what an idea, the PS controller with the analog sticks sucks they're utterly crap.

and mario kart is the best game ever


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## phatsharpie (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mrfluffy _
> *the N64 has the best controller (although i havent used a game cube yet), the trigger (z) makes perfect sense what an idea, the PS controller with the analog sticks sucks they're utterly crap.
> 
> and mario kart is the best game ever *



The GameCube controller is indeed well designed. I have to say it's my favorite among all the modern console's. I think the PS2 controller is pretty good, but I dislike the sensitivity of its analog sticks - it just feels unnatural.

Just my 2 cents.


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## 10bellies (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by anrkngl _
> *10bellies: is that a 3-eyed vorticon?*


A what?
(i'm drunk, and in no position to understand big words..)


> _Originally posted by Matrix Agent _
> *I heard the gamecube controller was quite nice.*


It is, almost perfect.


> *Up to this point, the most luxurious controller i've used is the N64 controller, nice egonomic design, with an analog joystick that actually offers some resistance, plus the buttons have actual names, rather than those goofy little shapes. *


GoldenEye wouldn't be the game it is if it wasnt for the N64 controller.


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## chemistry_geek (May 26, 2002)

> _From My Netscape (http://netscape5.marketwatch.com/ne...e&guid={CD2138D2-738E-4C60-8251-C66F045DE31E}):_
> *But due to more expensive chip components and features that allow the Xbox to play DVDs and connect to high-speed Internet lines, it costs Microsoft about $400 each to make each of its game machines, estimates Richard Doherty, analyst with Envisioneering Inc.
> 
> In comparison, Sony earns about $14 each on its $199 PlayStation 2, according to Doherty. And executives from Nintendo said this week from the Electronics Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles that the company is close to breaking even with its $149 GameCube.
> ...



OK, Now everyone go and buy XBox's.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (May 26, 2002)

Sorry... but I love my XBOX... it has better graphics in my opinion than PS 2 and GC (and yes... i have played all of these systems... same game too...)

i love the controller... it feels so comfortable... doesn't make my hands hurt like the PS2 controller.... the GC controller is f*cking weird and i hate it more than life itself...

oh well, that's my $.02


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## Bluefusion (May 26, 2002)

I agree with you about 2 things: the X-Box graphics really are amazing, and the GameCube controller is my mortal enemy.  But seriously, I like the XBox controller overall except for the horrible placement of the Black & White buttons. They just seem out of place, somehow.

The PS2 controller hurts your hands? Wow, never heard anyone say that before!  The GameCube controller REALLY REALLY hurts my hands, but 99.999% of the people who don't own a GameCube complain about it the same way (and anyone who does buy one is magically turned into "this is the greatest controller ever produced" mode. That's what I hate most about Nintendo; they give people no real options. It's like everyone's a bunch of lemmings.


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## dlookus (May 26, 2002)

Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into a "which browser is best" thread? 

I have nothing to add to this discussion of which game system is best. I simply found MS's predicament to be rather humorous.

Soul Calibur is the best game ever. That's all I know.


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## Bluefusion (May 26, 2002)

I say anything that Microsoft makes that puts them FURTHER in the hole is good news!


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## ablack6596 (May 26, 2002)

I own a Xbox,GameCube,Gameboy Advance, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Pocket, NIntendo 64, and Dreamcast.

and I think the GC controller is the best, the only problem I have with it is to hard to get your finger on the Z button.  The Dreamcast controller is great, the Xbox conreoller is huge and hurts my hands after plaing for awhile, the N64 controller is a little wierd but is almost perfect, and all the GB controls are ok.

I have played on friends PS2's a lot and do't really like the controllers, they aren't very comftorable and the buttons are all so close and the same size that I press the wrong button all the time.


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## boi (May 26, 2002)

at E3, X-Box had 3 times as many new games announced for this coming year than any other system.

that's what i heard on techtv, anyway.  the x-box is a good system, i won't deny it. it has SO many games. i'd prefer a ps2, but i can't afford any of that. it's okay, i just play guilty gear x on my dreamcast all day long anyway. but it'd be nice to play that new robotech game for the ps2 <drool>


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## ablack6596 (May 27, 2002)

Actualy there was a post on the MacAddict Forums that had a link to a Cnet article about how the Xbox was getting like any games that weren't coming out for other systems.

Trying to find the Macaddict post.......
well can't find it there maybe i can find the article at Cnet News

found it, here Xbox Struggling With Math Test


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## dlookus (May 27, 2002)

How about the link in the very first post of this thread?


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## Bluefusion (May 27, 2002)

ROFLMAO!!!! I was going to say something about that but I figured you'd want to, dlookus


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## ablack6596 (May 27, 2002)

Ahh i am so stupid!   For some reason I thought it was at MacAddict


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## Bluefusion (May 27, 2002)

's ok, ablack. We all make mistakes


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## Valrus (May 27, 2002)

I dunno, I don't have a problem with the GameCube controller.

But who cares? Just give me Dance Dance Revolution and I'm happy. Best... game... _ever!_

Although it's kind of a b*tch when _those_ controllers (the foot pads) screw up.

-the valrus


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## jocknerd (May 28, 2002)

The Xbox is far superior in technology to PS2.  Here's the facts:

XBox : 733-mhz Intel processor, 233-mhz Nvidia graphics accelerator, built-in ethernet

PS2 : 300-mhz Sony processor, 150-mhz graphics accelerator, optional ethernet connector available this summer.

The PS2 does have, in its favor, a Linux development kit for it.

Microsoft is loathed in Japan and Europe so its sales have been horrible. Microsoft loses about $100 per Xbox sold.


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## phatsharpie (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jocknerd _
> *The Xbox is far superior in technology to PS2.  Here's the facts:
> 
> XBox : 733-mhz Intel processor, 233-mhz Nvidia graphics accelerator, built-in ethernet
> ...



Actually, I disagree. If the Xbox isn't by Microsoft, it would be obliterated by now. It is all thanks to the large amount of money MS is throwing at the Xbox to keep it afloat. First of all, it costs too much to build, and any smaller company would simply balk at losing so much money per console. Secondly, it might be technically superior to other platforms, but better technology rarely means success in home entertainment market. Remember Betamax? Laserdisc? Dreamcast?

It all comes down to games. Xbox has next to no exclusive games, and it simply has a reuptation as a "PC port" box. If I can pay the same amount of money for a console that has nth times more games and is more established... Why not? Consoles are not like operating system, it's essentially a dumb terminal, you don't interact with it, you just pop in a disc, so it all comes down to the games.


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## Winblows (May 28, 2002)

i think apple should look into the gaming market.. they did try web tv.. of course they were WAY ahead of their time like usual and it didnt go far.. it was a shame that the G4 cube bombed, a similar product for gamming wouldnt be a bad idea


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## dave17lax (May 28, 2002)

You guys are so immature. Everyone starts ****ing on xbox just because it's from MS. I'll use Halo as my example because it is the best xbox game out there.
Has anyone every played Halo? It is NOT just another "PC shooter", it is an insanely hard (on legendary), extremely customizable game. Has anyone ever played through a level of Halo? The level loads as you go. No waiting, if you die, you immediatly respawn without having to wait for a bar to craaaawl across the screen (e.g. PS2). This is because of its better hardware, and included HD (hard drive)

Has anyone ever seen Halo, or SSX tricky on a HDTV? I have, and it is amazing. Tricky is naturally widescreen, and still looks good on xbox though considered a "port".
If you have 2 or more xboxes, you can network them together with a hub and some cable, and play head to head, I think up to 16 people. That is so crazy, even if that situation would probably not ever arise for any of you (or me).

Now given that Halo is one of the only almostfully-implemented games for xbox, don't you think that once that designers get their trains in motion, that a lot more games would start looking this good? 
PS 2 is at a later stage in its development cycle. OF COURSE games will not be as good at first.

As for GameCube, I want one! I want a PS2 too! I miss nintendo's style of gaming, and I am impressed by PS2's thick satchel of titles.

But that doesn't mean we should sell it short just because of M$


P.S. Xbox plays dvds just like ps2, but you have to buy an adapter. Straight money grab by MS. Just like $ony's straight money grab when they required you to buy an adapter to have more than 2 controllers.


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## ablack6596 (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dave17lax _
> *You guys are so immature. Everyone starts ****ing on xbox just because it's from MS. I'll use Halo as my example because it is the best xbox game out there.
> Has anyone every played Halo? It is NOT just another "PC shooter", it is an insanely hard (on legendary), extremely customizable game. Has anyone ever played through a level of Halo? The level loads as you go. No waiting, if you die, you immediatly respawn without having to wait for a bar to craaaawl across the screen (e.g. PS2). This is because of its better hardware, and included HD (hard drive)
> 
> ...



actually I do have an Xbox and Halo, I was playing Halo after school which is why I am still doing my homework (well maybe not  ) and I agree halo is a good game but still there are many things I do not like about the Xbox especially the controllers (and if you say just get the new S controllers I disagree i already have two controllers and do not fell like getting more and spending more money on controllers insead of games which I need to even have a use for the controllers) also the Xbox is way to big and heavy.  The GC is tiny, light, and has some very fun games.  The PS2 is light and medium sized and a lot of games many of them great.

Also about the 


> The level loads as you go. No waiting, if you die, you immediatly respawn without having to wait for a bar to craaaawl across the screen (e.g. PS2). This is because of its better hardware, and included HD (hard drive)


I havn't seen many games were you have to wait to "respawn" and actually you do have to load in Halo.  There are loading times in between I guess umm missions when the loading sign lights up slowly across the screen and the part with loading during gameplay it is just loding while you walk or drive through a passage sure you are moving in zig zags through paths but it is just a way to hide the loading (after thinking about this maybe it is different on other levels, I am only on Halo but that is how it seems to me so far.)


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## dave17lax (May 29, 2002)

yes. true.

it does load like that, but the levels are so huge that it only does it once in a blue moon. or should i say ring?


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