# Video Game Violence



## habilis (May 2, 2003)

For the second night in a row I have gotten 3 hours of sleep. The reason being that I bought this game called Medal of Honor: Allied Assault for my Mac and I can't stop playing this thing. It's a intelligently designed WWII game where you get to fight battles against Nazi's. 

Anyway, I've been playing it for about 2 weeks and I just thought it was odd how whenever I shot and killed a Nazi it:  A. Felt good, and B. was wierd that there was never any blood, not even a drop. 
"This no blood thing is interfering in the realism of this game" I thought to myself. Then, soon enough, I found myself craving the realism that blood could provide. "How unrealistic, I just shot this guy in THE HEAD with a sniper rifle and there's no blood??? C'mon!!" - I was apparently becomming desperately bloodthirsty.

Then 2 nights ago I found out about these gameplay altering files you can download called "mods". Anybody can make them and they are a very small file size. I found hundreds of "blood mods" at alliedassault.com. These blood mods vary greatly and can make the gameplay everything from a total bloodbath with blood all over the walls, floor, and ceiling to just a few red spots for added realism.

I chose a blood mod that gave me a medium ammount of blood spatter from gunshots and grenade attacks.

The game is 100% better now; killing feels and looks much more like the real thing.

I had no idea I was such a blood-thirsty sadist. I'm like Marlon Brando in 'Apocalypse Now'. The Pentagon is out there looking for people like me.

There's of course many arguments that these type of games have a negative effect on kids - and adults for that matter - ranging from desensitization from violence to creating blood thirsty freeks like myself(joking) that end up actually wanting to kill REAL people.

All I know is that I love video games, always have since the Atari 2600, and they better not ever try to ban these things. That would suck.


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## BIGDOGquake3 (May 2, 2003)

So how do you know if its realilistic? Have you ever killd someone?


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## toast (May 2, 2003)

He knows it's realistic because it now look smore like Unreal Tournament   

I really should get this MOH:AA game. Every time I hear someone talking about it, the person's never got more than 3 hours of sleep in the week, if not in the month. That's exactly my style of game


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## habilis (May 2, 2003)

toast: download the multiplayer MOH/Spearhead demo here: http://macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=17617
The file is like 128MB but I'm sure you can access a broadband line somewhere.

Personally, I like the 1 player version better then multiplayer, multi is just too hectic and scary for me but it will still give you a good feel for the gameplay.


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## habilis (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BIGDOGquake3 _
> Have you ever killd someone?


I did shoot a pigeon in the chest with a pellet gun once when I was 14. I almost threw up.   Does that count for anything?


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## habilis (May 2, 2003)

Postcard from Habilis in Stalingrad.
Here I am posing with my .45 cal Tokarev that I lifted off a dead Soviet soldier. I'm admiring this BEAUTIFUL view deep in enemy controlled Stalingrad.
 ::ha::


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## Azzgunther (May 3, 2003)

This is an interesting topic. 

Whenever I'm playing Jedi Knight II I am distracted by the fact that I wish I could cut stormtroopers in half but cannot.  

The game has no blood, and therefore loses realism that we've come to expect in games, therefore losing some of its fun-factor.  

Do you guys think that realism in games today is dependant upon blood and decapitations?  Do these features add to the expereince enough to be necessary instead of simple extras?


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## habilis (May 3, 2003)

"simple extras" - I understand your point, but gore and blood is absolutely necessary for immersive gameplay - as long as it's realistic and not overexploited and gratuitous. 

Also if the game applies to the logic that you shoot people and they die with very very realistic animations, why would the logic fall short of realism when I blast your head point-blank with a 12 gauge - It's not gonna SPRAY blood all over?? I was feeling totally ripped off when all I saw was a puff of white dust. I mean, MoH is so realistic that it has collision detection for all body part hits; If I snipe out a guys leg, he'll go limping away until I hit vital organs, the neck or the head. Sometimes I hit a guy a few times in the chest, he went down, I thought he was dead until I got closer to him and he was still alive, trying to crawl to his rifle - can't have that, had to put him out of his misery.

Looks like tonight's gonna be an all-nighter. I'm busy trying to escape from a town called Remagen.

I had that JK2 game and it fell quite short of my expectations after the the Original JK and JK:Mysteries of the Sith.

You should do a google search on mods for that game. here's some I found with blood mods and other stuff:
http://www.jedi-knight2.de/dlmanager/view.php?cat=1
http://www.massassi.net/levels/view_category.php3?category_id=4


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## habilis (May 3, 2003)

I know it's a little late, but this is just to illustrate my point with the blood thing.
That *was* an German SS Officer that got in my way. It's a simple cause and effect relationship; They get in my way, I gun them down like dogs. I made the decision to not to look in his wallet to see pictures of his kids and wife. Last thing I wanna do is humanize the enemy...


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## toast (May 3, 2003)

I'm downloading the MOH:Spearhead demo.

I know I'm gonna like it.
1- I'm keen on WW2 related stuff (was a great Airfix models fan back in dark abysm of time).
2- I'm keen on shoot em ups, esp. Unreal Tournament.
3- I' keen on blood-throwin' weapons.

People with Unreal Tournament, listen ! Download the Abandoned City map and become a sniper for five or six minutes in Last Man Standing mode. Send me feedback


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## habilis (May 3, 2003)

I had the original Unreal game for PC about 4 years ago. It was cool but I never got the Tournament edition. I'm a single player type of guy. Every time I go into multiplayer I get WASTED in about 5 seconds. I don't stand a chance against these Clans an stuff...


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## toast (May 3, 2003)

Practice with bots.
The best way to get handy is to get Quake III Arena (there's a free demo on the Web, check ID Software), to play all levels with bots, beginning at Easy mode and finishing in Hardcore.

Then you jump to the Web. You thought you were a tought guy, coz you were playing in Hardcore mode, haha. In fact, you'll discover you're useless.

After a few days, playing on the Demon.co.uk servers, you'll start remembering players, levels, tricks, etc. It took me one month to finish #1 on some games. But damn, some people out there are just invincible.


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## ksv (May 3, 2003)

moved to mac os x games 

Did you guys try Max Payne? I have to say the graphics are pretty amazing - and even faster than mohaa


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## habilis (May 3, 2003)

toast: yeah the bots, I'll have to look into that. I don't even know if my game can do that. The other problem is that my wife won't be able to peel me off this keyboard if I start getting into multiplayer. My brother is heavily addicted to counterstrike. I've not seen much of him lately, or, when I call, his wife answers and he won't come to the freekin phone cuz he's playin counterstrike.

ksv: I tried the PS2 version but I wasn't a fan of the wierd controls and shitty framerate. Is there a demo out for Mac? I haven't seen it anywhere. I'll give it a second shot.


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## ksv (May 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by habilis _
> *ksv: I tried the PS2 version but I wasn't a fan of the wierd controls and shitty framerate. Is there a demo out for Mac? I haven't seen it anywhere. I'll give it a second shot. *



Can't find any demo, but the game is only $20 at http://store.yahoo.com/boldgames/maxpayne.html .
The framerate wasn't too good on a 500 MHz G4 with a 16 MB ATI Rage Pro 128, but actually better than mohaa, which seems to use a rather crappy graphics engine.


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## habilis (May 4, 2003)

Here's another picture I took this afternoon while in the Siegfried Forest: http://www.bonkdown.com/daily/siegfried.jpg
The photo is from my recon mission after I ambushed a small team of Germans who were operating an anti-aircraft 88mm flak gun. I stayed low and hidden behind some trees and slowly picked them off with my sniper rifle from about 200 yards, then I moved in and dynamited the 88 battery. 

Anyway, it's getting dark in the forest now. I have to continue taking out the other flak gun batteries so Allied recon aircraft can penetrate into german airspace unhindered. We've been losing too many planes in this area...

end transmission
private habilis


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## jove (May 8, 2003)

Just a quick comment. I am not going to jump into the "effect on society" argument.

All I am going to say is, if a person openly fantasizes about the slaughter of other human beings then he is sick. I use the word sick not in a humorous tone. There is just something wrong.


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## habilis (May 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jove _
> *All I am going to say is, if a person openly fantasizes about the slaughter of other human beings then he is sick.*







I hope you're not talking about me.

::alien::


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## Doxology (May 19, 2003)

Ever played Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix on the PC?

This is the one game on which I've actually turned _down_ the violence setting because it simply got _too_ realistic.

There's MOH violence, bloodless and abstracted.

There's UT violence, bloody but quick.

Then there's SOF II violence.  SOF II, like its predecessor, models dismemberments and decapitations, albeit a little more detailedly in the second iteration.  However, it also actually models characters heads dynamically; depending on where you shoot, you *actually blow ballistically-accurate chunks off their skulls, exposing brain tissue and the like*.  Add to this some Saving Private Ryan-esque screaming and groaning, and you have a game that spares nothing in portraying gun violence.

I played the first several missions with the violence set to full, and finally found it so disturbing that I found myself turning it down every so often, only to turn it back up the next time I played.  

SOF II doesn't dehumanize its enemies.  It tries to convey them as living, breathing people that you are gunning down.  

And yet, on one hand, I almost have to agree with this approach.  SOF II doesn't skirt around violence, trying to make it fun--it shows it for what it is; something that, as one of you mentioned with the bird/pellet gun experience, is quite profoundly upsetting and even nauseating.

Brutal honesty in gaming or over-the-top violent sensationalism?  I haven't decided yet.


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## Arden (May 19, 2003)

Jove: you're the one with the bomb avatar...

I think MOH:AA is a great game, but for multiplayer I think Battlefield: 1942 is even better.  Basically, MOH:AA is to BF42 as Unreal is to UT.  You get to drive vehicles, including tanks, planes and ships, and the weapons, levels and gameplay are excellent.

However, MOH:AA is still a great game, and if single-player is the way to go for you, then for WWII it is the way to go.

habilis: you may want to invest in something I've worked with... it's called real life.  You exit the game, shut off the computer, and step outside for a breath of fresh air and some activity away from home.  I know it's scary, but the world can be a harsh place and...

Oh, bloody hell, go back to your damn game already and stop whining!


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## Azzgunther (May 22, 2003)

Somehow I have the feeling the name "arden" will be in a rocketlauncher's crosshairs very soon.  


Anyway, the thing about violence in games is this:  the more there is, the more you're immersed in the game.  I, for one, have noticed my natural tendancy to unconciously gauge a game's fun-factor based on how realistic it is.  Therefore, I'm usually not a huge fan of games where your enemy takes a grenade from 2 feet away and falls down.  They'd better fly...or I should say parts of them better fly in different directions.  

It's sick, I know, but I think natural to compare the depth of the experience with how violent it is because violence=realism.  

Once I got the force power in JKII to pick a guy up into the air while choking him and then slam him into a wall to break his neck....I started to enjoy the game much more


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