# Eh... Apple hyped to much!!!!!!!!!!



## AppleWatcher (Jan 7, 2002)

I think Apple has hyped too much on her site!!!!!!

'To go where no PC has gone' or something? What do they mean?
'Beyond the rumor sites. Far beyond' What do they mean?
iPhoto was known months ago! And the new iMac, too!

What's the wowsupergreatultraturbo-iThing that we don't know???

Is there coming more??? 

AppleWatcher


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## ksv (Jan 7, 2002)

Humm, yah, kinda disappointing. Maybe they're coming up with some more stuff later in the Expo?


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## serpicolugnut (Jan 7, 2002)

There will be no PowerMac G4 speed bump at this Expo. It isn't happening. Either the chips aren't ready, or Apple didn't want to blow their wad for the whole year right in the first week. Whatever the reason, our next opportunity for speed bumped PowerMacs will be MacWorld Tokyo. If it doesn't happen then, it's anyone's guess.

Apple definitely hyped too much. All of today's products are great, but nothing was a surprise, except for maybe the 14" iBook.

However, Apple's consumer product line is now the best it is ever been. The hardware is great, and the software (OS and iApps) is better than any other offering out there.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

i don't think it was hyped too much...

*Lust Factor Ten:* Yes, it looks beautiful!
*Way beyond the rumor sites:* Yes, who envisioned a hemisphere?!
*To go where no PC has gone before:* What other kind of PC looks like this... especially with it's specs!

I think it was appropriately done because this was a very good keynote... you just analyze things too much that it doesn't seem as good as it really was...


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## ksv (Jan 7, 2002)

Yope, I really NEED one of those iMacs


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## simX (Jan 7, 2002)

Actually, I agree with blingbling.

The only surprise was that there were no new PowerMacs.

But that iMac is *#^&@ing awesome.  You have to see it at the keynote to believe it.  Seriously.  A G4 800 MHz, GeForce 2 MX 32MB VRAM, SuperDrive, 60 gig hard drive, 256 megs RAM, 15" flat-panel display built-in, all-in-one design, 3 USB ports, 2 FireWire ports, even video mirroring.  ALL FOR $1799 (high-end, of course).  Oh, wait, one more thing -- THAT'S A MINISCULE FOOTPRINT for what it does.  I'd say this is definitely where no PCs have gone before.

The one thing that really surprised me, though, is that the high-end iMac is now better than the low-end PowerMac, except in terms of expandibility.  I guess PowerMacs might be announced at MWT (in Februrary?) or at a special Apple event in late January.  Of course, the high-end iMac doesn't ship 'til the end of January, the mid doesn't ship 'til end of Feb, and the low-end doesn't ship 'til end of March.  But damn is that thing cool.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

where did you sit simX? i was in the center (pretty much in front of that big screen) in about row 5... i dunno which it was, didn't count, was just happy to be so close!


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 7, 2002)

I wish I could have been there 

As for New powermacs, apple needs to give attention to all its products so apple cannot release them all at the same time.  You need to have a "wow" factor for each prodcut if you are going to make $$$$


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

Most apple fans already got screwed into buying a G4 cube and the old Imacs, the question is WHY SHOULD THEY GET A NEW ONE WHICH WILL COST THEM ANOTHER 1300$ 

THIS IS WHERE MACS FALL SHORT, THEY ARE NOT CUSTOMIZABLE, YOU CANNOT UPGRADE THEM. YOU HAVE VERY STRICT LIMITATIONS ON HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE.

AND IF THEY CHANGE THE FUCKEN IMAC EVERY YEAR, IT'S LIKE CHANGING A GAME CONSOLE, IT'S NOT CUSTOMIZABLE, IT IS NOT A PC.

YOU CANNOT JUST GO OUT A BUY A NEW MB, THIS WHOLE AESTHETIC CHANGES WILL JUST CRIPPLE APPLE AT THE END.

AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE MASSES, I AM JUST TALKING AOBUT THE APPLE FAN BASE.

DON'T YOU PPL EVEN THINK THAT ANY PC USER WOULD BUY THIS CRAP. THEY'RE MAN MADE PRISON BOXES, IF YOU BUY ONE, ITS LIKE BUYING A TV, IT WILL HAVE THE SAME FEATURES FOR THE REST OF THAT MACHINES LIFE... FOREVER!

NOT EVEN IN 2 YEARS, YOU PEOPLE WILL ALREADY REALISE THIS IMAC, WHICH SOME FOOLS IN THIS FORUM WILL BUY, WILL FEEL THE OBSOLETENESS OF THEIR "NEW" MACHINE VERY QUICKLY.

IT'S FUNNY THAT APPLE HAS THE SAME IDEA FOR ITS SOFTWARE, OS9 APPS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OSX APPS, YOU HAVE TO BUY EVERYTHING NEW.

APPLE DOESN'T THINK DIFFERENT, IT JUST WEARS A CUTE MASK

STILL GREED IS APPLE'S CREED


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## Unregistered (Jan 7, 2002)

Apple has to put it out one product at a time - to make sure PC'users get the whole picture.

Every time I talk to a PC user he says something like "Apple, last time they came up with this cpu in a little box, right?".

The world forgets about the Mac if you don't keep it posted.


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## ulrik (Jan 7, 2002)

deleted by user


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## Ralph J. (Jan 7, 2002)

yes, i think the expo was overhyped, but i'm not at all disappointed with the products that were introduced.

apple now offers, IMHO, the best line-up of consumer hardware/software available. period. the new iMac is an awesome value.

down the road a bit, we'll see the same for the pro line.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

It's not an AWESOME VALUE, It's too expensive, if Mac wants to attract new customers, this isn't the way.


Btw, 1300$ = 2000$ + 15% tax =2300$ Can, so don't think any Canadian will be rushing to purchase this oversized lamp.


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## GadgetLover (Jan 7, 2002)

As usual, Steve and Apple waaaaaay over-hyped MacWorld.  I will be there in a few days and am excited (but mostly for third-party vendors) to go, BUT, I was not impressed.  Do I like the new iMac?  Yes, after a few blinks of the eye (quite a few actually) it has grown on me.  I like it's G4 speed and SuperDrive (and RAM expansion base).  BUT, I wanted an iPad or G4 speed boosts (not to mention G5).  Where the F@#k is a 1GHz machine!!!???

Oh, Steve, FYI: stop saying "cool."  I still love ya but give it a rest -- you're too far past twenty-something to say "cool" for something over and over when, in fact, the things you are gloating about are not all THAT cool.  It's not like Apple invented the flat-panel LCD itself and we are seeing it for the first time.  Again, I like the iMac but I have a lamp that looks EXACTLY like the movable arm on the iMac; just swap the halogen bulb for the LCD panel and walah!  Even the base of my lamp looks like the iMacs base -- it has to!  Otherwise the damn thing would tip over!  ... now an iPad, THAT would be cool.


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *It's not an AWESOME VALUE, It's too expensive, if Mac wants to attract new customers, this isn't the way.
> 
> 
> Btw, 1300$ = 2000 Can, so don't think any Canadian will have luxury to purchase this oversized lamp. *



What are you talking about?  I just bought an Athlon 1.4GHz last September(for school: programming), with a monitor, and 60GB IBM drive, and it cost me $2100.00 Canadian.  All, that, and the friggin Athlon has burnt it self out in less than 4 months.  THAT'S WHAT I CALL VALUE  

I would much rather have spent that money on an Apple product, and would definately want one of the new iMacs if I had the spare cash.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

2100??? BULLSH*T, HOW CAN YOU GET RIPPED OFF WITH THAT PRICE!


You got screwed, has nothing to do with value.

I have an Athlon XP 1700+ Retial (270$)
Gigabyte GA-7VTX-E (131$)
40 GB 7200 RPM Maxtor ATA 100 (144$)
SB Live Value (51$)
256MB DDR Memory (75$)
17'' LG Flatron 795ft Plus! monitor (345$)
Labtec NXT super flat speakers (65$)
Floppy Drive (15$)
DVD-ROM (86$)
Nextec2002 case (100$)
LG CDRW 24x10x32 (139$)
Asus Geforce 3 Retail (400$)

1400$ Can = 868$! US

BEAT THAT APPLE!


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

how many times must we tell you... go **** your ******* ***** and shut up before we stick that non-apple up your ******* ass you **** licking canadian son of a *****!

we don't want you here, so why do you come here. just to be the mother ******* epitomy of PC users that don't get it yet...  it seems you'd have to be shot in the head to understand anything... and you obviously need a few... so you can just get the hell off these boards because a majority of us don't want you here.... you and a few of your "PC IS GOD" counterparts can just go away too because they aren't valued much here either...

and if you're so "PRO PC" why did you come here in the first place?!

you just have to get on everyone's nerves don't you....




*now, nothing against all canadians, just this one...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

So much aggression and angre in Mac users, I guess all that temper is coming from the problematic OS X, that is fueling you to express so much hate to a fellow forum member. How dare you sir! Pshaaa!

PC is short for PEACE


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

here's something Manic... i'm a PC user... have been for the last 7 years... i've never owned a mac... EVER....


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

I wasn't talking to you!!! Idiot :|


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## Jadey (Jan 7, 2002)

$1400 cdn. is more like $934 u.s. And ManicDVLN, you are anything but peaceful. Forgetful perhaps. Maybe you should review your comments from this and <a href="http://www.press3.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9010&perpage=15&pagenumber=2">other forums</a> before you call the kettle black.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

> So much aggression and angre in Mac users, I guess all that temper is coming from the problematic OS X, that is fueling you to express so much hate to a fellow forum member. How dare you sir! Pshaaa!



if that didn't sound like it stemed from my post, then i don't know what it did....


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## simX (Jan 7, 2002)

Anyway, just another note on the new iMac:

They actually managed to squeeze a built-in microphone in there too, as well as the internal speaker!  So it IS all-in-one, even if Apple provides the Apple Pro speakers along with it.

Now let's just see if we can resolve the question about the iMac having a fan... (I wanna know direct from Apple).


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## GadgetLover (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *2100??? BULLSHIT, HOW CAN YOU GET RIPPED OFF WITH THAT PRICE!
> 
> 
> ...



If you're not an Apple user or an Apple fan then why do you come to this Site?  Seriously, I'm curious.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

Same reason you reply to my posts


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## edX (Jan 7, 2002)

so much to address -
1st - manicdvln, please remember that blingbling is only 14 yo. He is actually very intelligent but is prone (as demonstrated) to the pitfalls of the changes he is going thru. keep your posts on an intellectual level and he will probably keep up with you. this is not an excuse or defense of his emotional outburst but rather pointing out that this is a chance for you to show your maturity.
2nd - actually steve is just the right age to say cool as often as he pleases. the word really entered the vocabulary during his teens. 
3rd - blingbling, don't be so sure the majority want him gone. check your poll. you are behind right now.
4th - comparing canadian and american $$$ is fruitless. in the end they are essentially the same. the reason for inflated canadian prices is inflated canadian wages. 

nuff for now


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

ed... LOL!  that was funny yet true at the same time... and that poll really doesn't do very well when there has only been 8 votes out of 6,159 registered members...


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *2100??? BULLSHIT, HOW CAN YOU GET RIPPED OFF WITH THAT PRICE!
> 
> 
> ...




I got wholesale prices with a slight markup:
Case $151
256MB PC133 RAM $61
60GB IBM HD ATA100 $347
Aopen 50x cdrom $48
Radeon AGP $175
Floppy drive $18
SBLive! $106
Athlon Tbird 1.4GHz $336
Asus A7V133 mobo $210
LG 17" monitor $235

All prices above are Canadian and were paid on Sept 7 2001
Prices don't include the 15% tax

Most of those prices you gave, I have a hard time believing.


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *
> 4th - comparing canadian and american $$$ is fruitless. in the end they are essentially the same. the reason for inflated canadian prices is inflated canadian wages. *



WHAT??? 
I don't know about that....


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

ever notice.... a magazine in USA is $5.99 but in Canada it's $7.99...


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

Yeah, but I don't really believe that's because Canadian salaries are higher than in the US.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

http://www.pecanada.com/

Is where i bought my parts, it is one of the best places to get Computer parts, now be quiet.


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## twyg (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *So much aggression and angre in Mac users, I guess all that temper is coming from the problematic OS X, that is fueling you to express so much hate to a fellow forum member. How dare you sir! Pshaaa!
> 
> PC is short for PEACE  *



You want to cut it out now Manic? 

If you've got something relevant to add to the thread, then do it, otherwise quit poking at people. I myself work on a PC at home, and actually don't have many complaints. (That's because I only do word processing on it  ) Other than that it's Mac all the way.

'nuff said.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

CANADIAN SALARIES AREN'T HIGH PLUS WE HAVE A BIG ASS 15% SALES TAX.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

I will say and do whatever I wish, I have the legal power to do so... you ain't in the position to tell me what to do, you little dictator.


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## Koelling (Jan 7, 2002)

Remeber that this is still just an iMac. That means consumer level, not pro. I am really stoaked for the new improvements, especially the fact that it is 800 mhz and super drive all on a lower end machine. There was not too much hype, just look at anything Microsoft gets a hold of. Talk about promoting last years news as their own invention.


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## The Madhatter (Jan 7, 2002)

Manic, I guess you fail to understand that APPLE sold 6 million iMacs. In another post you said that number is insignificant compared to PC figures.  Of course it is compared to ALL PC's sold, but it is huge for a SINGLE model of a SINGLE manufacturer's computer.  And you keep saying, who will buy these things?  Probably many more than the 6 million who bought the original iMac over its life span.
You always say noone will buy a computer that is not expandable (a "prison" you call the iMac) and that it would be hell having an iMac.  But that is exactly why so many buy these machines, because they are simple.  What grandma and grandpa, average Joe, typical American actually cares about expandability and what not?  So many of them want a computer that just works without hassle that they can enjoy!  That is exactly what Apple's goal was, not to make the perfect computer for every human! You seem to believe that just because the iMac doesn't have every advantage a computer can have makes it a piece of junk.  There is no "one for all" computer.  The iMac is not marketed to computer nerds who want to play around with and upgrade their systems.
No first time computer buyer is going to do what you did- go out, find the cheapest components, buy them, and assemble it themselves.  They aren't interested finding a dirt cheap computer they have to make themselves, or any OfficeMax sold piece of crap.  To sum it up, a cheap PC is not the answer for all computer buyers!!  I don't see how you fail to understand this!!  You seem to be stuck on the fact that you can buy a (you say better) computer for less and think that makes the iMac worthless.  Absolutely not.  It is not the Cube II (a flop), it is an iMac (overwhelming success).  It does not fit EVERYONE'S computing needs, but is perfect for so many others.  They will buy it.


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## serpicolugnut (Jan 7, 2002)

You're from Canada?

No wonder you're such an a**hole!


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

Exactly right Madhatter.

All those PC analysts(know nothing knowitalls), said the original iMac would fail because there weren't any USB periferals, no floppy drive, etc.

6 million iMacs later, and they still think they are right.   We'll see about that.

I believe that the new iMac will sell like hotcakes, just like the original.  I already want one, and I be about 1/4 to 1/2 of the people(maybe more) on this board would want one.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

Wait a min, you saying able to expand your computer is a nerdy features? So you expect these grandmas and grandpas to buy a new Imac each year cause the one they have now is almost too slow and obsolete? I don't buy that... No thanx

I wouldn't want 6 Imacs in my house just because it cant be upgraded. Not to mention the price, and its not LOW END, its too expensive for a low end computer.


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## Captain Code (Jan 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *You're from Canada?
> 
> No wonder you're such an a**hole! *



A peesee troll is a peesee troll, be it American, Canadian, British, whatever, 
just as a jerk is a jerk, be it American, Canadian, Chineze, whatever.

Don't be so self-absorbed.


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## sspooner (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm a twenty plus year veteran of the computer industry, working on everything from Apple ]['s to IBM 3090 mainframes.  I now own a TiBook and an iMac (old strawberry) and just bought my significant other an iBook for Christmas.  I can honestly say that this TiBook beats the pants off any PC I've ever used.  I'm lucky enough to be high enough up the food chain at work that I have the freedom to use my Mac for daily use, the other engineers in the building are often envious. 

I'm not anti-pc,  I just like things to work when the are supposed to.  I have never had to reset this OSX Powered TiBook EVER.

I was watching the MWSF webcast this morning and noticed one of my AOL pals disappeared and then reappeared several minutes later... his first message was "Sorry 'bout that dude, PC crashed."

I rest my case.


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## mindbend (Jan 7, 2002)

It may be some people's OPINION that the original iMac wasn't so great, but that's like saying the VW wasn't so great of a car. It was a cool car, it did what was asked of it and people loved them.

I have my G4 at work for doing my real production work, but at home I've got my iMac. It is my favorite all-time computer. Not because it is the most powerful (it's not), but simply because of the joy it brings me as it sits there in near total silence and does all I ask of it without complaint.

This new iMac is defintely in the love it or hate category as far as looks. But we all had these exact same arguments with the first one. Without question, the original Mac went on to influence every conceivable aspect of consumer design from George Foreman grills to calculators. This new iMac willd o the same. I guaran-damn-tee you that in six months you'll start seeing a whole buttload of things with articulated arms and/or hemispherical bases.

Another point. As much as it irks me, this little bugger (the new iMac) is as good or better than all but the very high end PowerMac line. I can only assume this means sometime (sooner than later I hope) the pro end will get some kind of boost. Apple can't possibly believe that the pro end (myself) will buy this new iMac for production work. Not because it's not fast enough, but it's still not expandable enough. I need multiple monitors for one thing.

Finally. Without dispute the original iMac was a smash hit. This is not arguable by any reasonable degree of sanity. You can dislike it all you want, but 6 million boxes from a single supplier is astonishing, especially given its controversial design. I remember when it first came out, I was like, crap, I'm forced to live with its monitor, and no floppy and no SCSI, etc. I haven't used a floppy since the iMacs arrived, they really are useless nowadays. The monitor is respectable, if smallish, OK for office type work. I phased out my SCSI stuff. iMac wins. No w with this new one, we'll finally be able to play some of the more demanding games even. Nice.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

i've got a PC with TONS of room for expandibility... but all i've ever done was add RAM...

and you wouldn't have to buy a new mac each year... they are more efficient and last longer than PC's... a mac won't go obsolete for a long time...

my friend with an original bondi-blue 333 MHz iMac runs all current apps perfectly!

my friend that has a Gateway 400 MHz can barely run Windows XP... 384 MB of RAM (max for his computer)... he had to take it off because it was so slow...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 7, 2002)

wow, your friend can run Mac OS X on that 333mhz so wonderfully eh? must be a magic IMAC.

I am running XP as a server with a cel 300mhz @ 450mhz with 514MBs ram

super stable, I guess your friend is a screw up, if that friend exists in the first place


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

yes.. he does exist... he just bought a new Dell Dimension 4100s @ 1.4 GHz with XP Pro and 256 MB of RAM... I helped him with his purchase...

and i didn't try to get him to buy a mac... he only uses his computer to play a game called Ultima Online (http://www.uo.com) which is only on the PC platform... and if it was for mac, his parents wouldn't get it because they have no experience in it and they don't like anything different (this is the main reason they haven't bought a new TV since 1993... getting them to buy a new computer was a 3 month process of begging and persuation)


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## theed (Jan 7, 2002)

Step 1, find the Caps Lock key and turn it off.

Step 2, reduce the crack you are smoking and come to realize that both Macs and PC's have their advantages.  

Step 3, stop talking about Apple like you are on a peer to peer basis with them until you too have sold 6 million of something.

I'm not saying that Apple or the iMac is perfect, but there's no reason to come in here and share your ass with everyone.  Try looking at and showing the bright side.  Like this...

Apple is on the bleeding edge of design.  Everyone benefits from Apple's design, most other companies benefit from Apple's design without having to spend a dollar on R&D.  If it weren't for Apple, PC's would still look like DOS.  And even less innovation would be made in case design.  Everyone's keyboard would still be PS2, there'd be way fewer USB things sold, and if you think USB 2 is cool, that never would have come to fruition without having to compete with Firewire.  If you don't like the all in one design, don't buy one.  I too have not bought one largely for this reason  At the same time, it's a sweet design for certain uses, and we'll see how much that outweighs it's lack of internal expansion.

PC users crack me up, they always yell about how macs aren,t expandable, and then can't wrap their heads around my external scsi drive that I use with my laptop(s) and desktops since 1997, or how I could have had 2 mice attached at the same time in 1996, or how I drag and drop things between mac and PC environments on my two monitors.  

Everone is a hypocrite, and everyone is either on one side of the mac fence or the other, and everyone has THE best computer they could get.  (Try convincing them otherwise)  In the end, there's nothing but good that comes out of this experiment whether it succeeds or fails.  The point is to have tried.  So you too should try.

It occurs to me ever so clearly now that one cannot ask certain people to self moderate.  The resultantly glaring omission of a feature in vBulletin which runs these boards is the inability to just ignore posts from certain usernames.  We are given certain freedoms on the assumption that we will self moderate.  After failure to do so, there needs to be a mechanism for enforcing moderation.

And now in a futile attempt to return to topic, yeah, I think Apple poured on the hype a little thick if this is the extent of the announcements from them for this event.  They could have at least qualified their statement of "Going where no PC has gone before" with the answer of "Your living room."  Because really, that's where I see this computer belonging.  wireless keyboard and pointing device seem almost mandatory for how I envision its use.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 7, 2002)

great reading! i suggest Manic reads through ALL of it...


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## Anim8r (Jan 7, 2002)

Yo ManicDVLN... check resale values on PC's vs Macs.


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## adambyte (Jan 8, 2002)

Not all Canadians are "a**holes". Some good examples are... The rock group, Barenaked Ladies. Sarah McLaughlan. Jim Carrey... and I believe there are many Saturday Night Live graduates that are canadian...


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

a round of applause follows theeds post.

but theed, you can choose to ignore anyone you want by clicking on their profile, scroll to bottom and clicking on 'add soandso to your ignore list'

poof. they should disappear from your world.

but that would be a shame somehow. give some credit where credit is due. manicpcman has just inspired you to write that wonderful reply that all your true peers will find entertaining and inspiring. He brought that out of you.
now what he brought out of blingbling was not so pretty. but it was still real. perhaps it will make blingbling more self aware and aid in his maturing more rapidly. i have a funny feeling blingbling is going to be quite an adult someday. 

and folks, if you don't understand how inflation and the value of the dollar works, take a course in economics. it is too complicated to go into here but simplified it boils down to the fact that canada has a higher rate of inflation. the exchange rate balances this. in the end, the same relative value should be payed in either country. with canada it is somewhat of a different situation than europe where mac prices seem to reflect a true higher price.


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## free&unmuzzled (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *DON'T YOU PPL EVEN THINK THAT ANY PC USER WOULD BUY THIS CRAP. THEY'RE MAN MADE PRISON BOXES, IF YOU BUY ONE, ITS LIKE BUYING A TV, IT WILL HAVE THE SAME FEATURES FOR THE REST OF THAT MACHINES LIFE... FOREVER!/B]*


*

which is presumably why everyone stopped buying new cars and tvs.

*


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 8, 2002)

What false way of thinkin, TVs and cars don't need to be changed EACH YEAR.

Cars last for many many years, so do TVs, they don't need to be upgraded cause performance and SOFTWARE changes ARE NOT ESSENTIELS FOR THESE PRODUCTS!

A computer needs to be updated ALOT, as we move into the future, apps, games and OSes needs more and more power to work properly.

The computer industry walks at a very very fast pace, next year your new IMAC won't be worth squat.

I wonder what the resale value of a G4 cube is...

Now be quiet


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## sithious (Jan 8, 2002)

*lol*


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

manic, i'm guessing that more and more will be quiet in response to your posts. but i will reply to this last one because it was your original thoughts with no slandering remarks.

1st - some people do replace cars every year. others every other year. more every three years. and folks like me drive 'em into the ground first.
2nd - people are also buying new tv's and vcr's more often thanthey used to. the technology is starting to move forward at faster rates than ever before - mostly because of the rate of progression in the computer industry. people buy new tv's and computers when they want one that will do things they want that their old one did not. or the old one breaks.  my mom is till using the same tv from when i was 25. she has been thru 3 vcr's in that time. she and my stepdad are considering tivo or ultimate tv but it would not work on her old hookup. so now they are the decision making crossroad. what they decide will be the result of their figuring out what they want more. familiarity and no cash outlay, or advanced features.  this has always been the reasoning that people use when buying or upgrading their computers. 

so the analogies are very close, not absurd as you suggest.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 8, 2002)

I don't buy that, most people sell their cars every 4-6 years, if you sell your car each year, glad you can afford it, but not the average joe.

The only reason TVs are being sold faster currently is because we are in a transition periode of DVDs and HDTV capabilities.

In 1990s and 1980s TVs were pretty much the same each year, so there was no need to change anything.

At the end, apple machines like the new IMAC is not a long term solution for a cost effective price. I gurantee you next year IMAC, same people who are now chanting for the IMAC will want the new product.

But this is terrible, not everyone can change at this fast rate.

It's like changing Game console every year (buy new perhiperals, Software, addons)

Next year, New game console, you start again.

Even the console industry is steady, every 4-5 years new consoles from each console manufacturer.

PS2 is winning currently, because it released its console 1 year faster than nintendo, microsoft and sega. (Btw, i'ma  nintendo fan)

Yeah some people will buy a new console, some people just cant afford another one.

We're not talking about much moeny here, consoles caust a few 100$.

A new IMAC is costing from 1300$ to 1800$ It's crazy. It's more of a luxury item than an essential machine.

I see the new IMAC like a gaming console cause its so similar.

I hope Steve Jobs will stick with this NEW MODEL for a long time and not "revolutionize" next year with something else.

Why fix it when it ain't broke? Well in the G4 cube's case ....


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

you know i agree with every thing you just said!!
except that i still say this is happening just as fast in the pc world. my stepdad's custom built pc is only 4 yrs old. it was kick ass when he got it. now it can barely run any new software. for him this is probably going to be fine for a few more years at least. maybe forever since he is retired and doesn't really 'need' the computer to do much more. 
but most people are needing to replace those 4 yo machines right now to do what they want. and so they should. because they can get more now for less than they payed back then. same with macs. and in another 4-6 years, we will all go thru it again. you like cheaper, i like macs. it's ok. really it is.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 8, 2002)

Not really, since with PCs you can just replace the hardware part that you need to run whatever that is required for you to continue. That;s so good about PCs.

I have an old celeron 300mhz@ 450mhz and a Motherboard.

As i upgraded my other computer, I used the parts of my second computer to make a new computer of the celeron.

Now it has 512MBs of SDRAM, a TNT 2 Ultra, Sound Blaster AWE 64, a 40 GIG HD, and my old Flat monitor.

I use it as a SERVER running XP.

Works great.

You can't do that with a MAC, you just have to buy a new one to run new apps.

And frankly Macs seem to be at change OVERALL quickly than PCS.

Mac OS X is more power hungry than most PC oses.

Mac OS X is stable sure, thats great, cause its apples own damn OS.

XP is also amazingly stable, and it runs on almost all PCs, OLD or NEW (constituting all parts being current or old). It's faster than Win2k and it has more support and features than OS X and its easer to use than OS X overall.

PCs are like legos, you can build whatever you want, the variations are limitless. It's a good feeling when you have built your own PC, and say I made this PC. It's like being a Doctor. If something goes wrong, you pretty much know what, since you know what kind of stuff is in your box.

You don't like the case or the color, something aesthetically not comfortable with you? Fine, change the case, mod it, do anyhting you want.

Macs you cant do any of these things. YOu just have to buy a new one.

You see why I say Macs are like gamjing consoles? They cannot be changed, you pay for what you get, even though what you pay for is not much. There just too expensive.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 8, 2002)

if we're happy with our macs, we're happy people! we don't need to change anything one bit. our macs last us long enough so that we don't have to upgrade every time "the next best thing" comes out. 

if we feel that our mac has done it's worth, we have the right to buy new computers... whether it be MAC or PC platform, but people that really enjoy their Mac experience usually go back to what makes them happy, just like PC users that are happy with their PC experience, usually go back to the PC platform.

i on the other hand have hated my PC experience. frequent crashes and unstable hardware/software have made it hell on earth (and yes, i've had XP, and right now i'm using Win2000, so don't tell me that it will help because frankly, it really hasn't.) That is why I purchased the new iMac on Monday. It is the real digital hub... where else can doing things like that be so easy (and don't even say XP... it's video editing program sucks, has no native DVD burning support, it's Photo program wasn't very good, and Windows Media Player is good for those who have the time to sort through that unorganized media list, i didn't...)

so really, it all boils down to the consumer. if they feel that they need expandibility, they can either get a PowerMac or go for the PC platform. if they don't, the iMac is a perfect choice! although FireWire and USB is good for expandibility in my opinion...


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## theed (Jan 8, 2002)

I am using a Pmac 8500/120 running Mac OS X Server v1.2 with the most recent apache.  CPU is from ~1995 and the OS is roughly 1999.  It's a great server.  I did have a third party G3 CPU upgrade in it putting at 340MHz, but took that out and employed it elsewhere because web serving just doesn't require that much processor power.  Admittedly that machine was meant to be expandable, but it's in very much it's original config right now with a larger faster HD instead of its original, and more RAM.  I could do the same with an iMac or a cube.

As for the resale price of a cube, last time I checked on eBay they were reselling for about the same price as they were new because the demand is so great compared to the supply.

PC66 is not PC100 is not 133 is not DDR is not RamBus.
Processors are not simply processors, clock multipliers are limited, pinouts change, ramdom hardware conflicts occur, 
DB% is not PS2 is not USB is not serial
power supply and cooling requirements change.  

Really, if you consider the time you put into changing the parts and how much your time is worth per hour, all in one boxes begin to make a lot of sense.  Just like paying for an OS that works may make more sense than hacking one together that doesn't yet work for you, or writing one yourself.

I find that one of the primary yet undiscussed differences between Mac and PC users is what kind of dollar value they each put on their time.

My mom's rev a iMac now has 512 Meg of Ram, runs X.1, and serves her needs better than it did when it originally shipped.  I don't remember if I gave her a new HD.


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

ok manic. i can see part of that arguement. i think there is more opportunity for certain pc's to be more customizable - probably most of today's modern tower designs. and for people like you who get into that and enjoy it, that is certainly one advantage that pc construction has. on the other hand  i believe the mac towers offer quite a bit of opportunity for this as well. perhaps not as much, but with a well thought out original purchase, not near as much will need to be changed that rapidly. of course that holds for pc's as well. 
but you can look at my signature and see that the 'limitations' of an all in one computer have not stopped me from building the system i want. and yes i bitch to myself everytime i go into a computer store and see the 'made for mac version' of something selling at a higher price. but often if i look around a little, as you must do to build your own system, i can find it at a reasonable price. 
so you keep the case and spend money on replacing parts. i keep the main unit and spend money on add ons. some, hopefully most, of the add ons should be as useful with my next mac as they are today. the real beauty of both firewire and usb is that you don't need to have all sorts of expandability built into the case. a couple of ports of each and your ready to hub and chain anything you want onto your system. all i've done to the original unit is add ram. and it works almost as good as the new 600mhz imac my gf just got in july. i don't expect to need a new mac for another few years at least. i have been thinking about a new one because i would like to get my son one. it makes more sense for me to buy a better one and give him mine than to buy him a used one that costs almost as much as a new one.  
the other thing that i seem to be hearing is that you feel apple is ripping its customers off by developing new and better technology too quickly. this puzzles me. why would i feel bad that the line of computers i enjoy are rushing into the future at breakneck speed? Hell, i'd be pleased as punch if next week they came up with something ten times better than we have now and it made everything obsolete.I really hope they make the imac G4 obsolete in record time. that won't happen, but still i can dream. 
it's funny you shuld bring game consoles into this (i'm also a nintendo man). the only real absolute advantage that i have ever seen to using a pc is the vast array of games available for it. having a mac, the only reason i would need one would be to play games. but that's what the game console is for.  there is no computer i've ever seen that plays games as well as a game console. ( now my son thinks sega is the best - nintendo is ok, but any real gamer uses sega )
btw - you've got to admit that blingbling made a very good presentation in his rebutal.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

If I remember correctly, one of the IMACs advantages were less wires and more simplicity, yet now you talking about expanding your IMAC with USB, firewire, Hubs, speakers that will all take space on your desk and add alot of wiring.

I do think Mac is ripping it's customers because most hardware in a Mac comes from apple itself. So why put such a high price tag on a low end solution as the new IMAC? Most PC hardware aren't proprietary to the vendors, and PC are much cheaper. If only Apple would lower its prices it could double it's income in no time.

Also, I don't like rushing technology cause most of the time, new technology needs worldwide support or it turns into a flop, so I don't like to rush into the store and buy the newest thing. Also, the new IMAC is nothing revolutionary and jaw breaking, it's a matter of space managment. That isn't something new.

There is this new PC out, it's the size of my hand and has a 1 GHZ P3.

I compared Macs to consoles not because of software, as in playing games, I meant that Macs has the same kind of restrictions as gaming consoles. There small, compact and you are limited in upgrades, plus once you chance your console, you have to buy new software, like for example all new G4s come with Mac OS X.


BTW, how dare you say that copycat SEGA is for real gamers, Nintendo is the one who started it all, Nintendo is the leader of creativity in the gaming business, Nintendo has its games in the 100 best games in our history. Nintendo will be successful always becuase of its first party titles. Where is SEGA now? Dead in the console business, now making games for the new consoles, mostly for the NINTENDO GAMECUBE which uses btw a custom G4 chip.


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## skb104 (Jan 9, 2002)

Manic brings up the point that the iMac is not upgradeable, which is true to some extent from a hardware perspective, but you can upgrade the OS.  On many "consumer" model PCs, the hardware is built so specific to the OS you request on purchase (ME, for example) that you are never able to upgrade the OS.  Some OS's like 2000 and NT 4.0 are better about this, but the same market the iMac tries to hit would most likely order ME for their PC.  So, in short, PCs are no better and in fact worse in this respect.


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## ulrik (Jan 9, 2002)

I have to disagree. Why wouldn't you be able to upgrade the OS on a PC? Most hardware which is still supported by the companies has drivers for all existing OSes, in case of some companies even Linux drivers. It is not better as an iMac, but also not worse. Of course you have to get all those drivers once you wish to change the OS, which then again comes down to the well-known fact that Macs are more user-friendly in this regard since you don't have to hunt-down all drivers you need. (the only exception is when you go from OS 9 to X, but within the classic OS or within X, it is no hassle to upgrade).


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## RacerX (Jan 9, 2002)

> _drooled by ManicDVLN_*
> You can't do that with a MAC, you just have to buy a new one to run new apps.
> 
> And frankly Macs seem to be at change OVERALL quickly than PCS. *



Funny, I dont seem to be having that type of problem. I still use a 1994 PowerMac 7100 on a daily basis. I have made a number of upgrades over the years, and it runs photoshop great, I still do video and audio editing on it. And It runs both Windows 95 and 98 great in VPC (and better than any 1994 PC I've seen). I have a stock (no upgrades at all) Quadra 950 running MacOS 8.1 that is used for an application server, CD burner, and page layouts (it has three 21 monitors attached, so I can have up to 6 pages displayed at once), and it is 10 years old.

As for Mac OS X, the first G3 systems were released 5 years ago, so a 5 year old system can still be use to run it (not to mention the fact that you can upgrade 1995 PowerMacs to run it also).

As stated before, the mother board is really the only part that is APPLE MADE, but considering that they usually come with extras (on board video compression for the 95-97 PowerMacs, built-in ethernet on most systems after 1991), you get more and have to hunt down fewer drivers.

But you see, you dont have ANY Macintosh experience. That is why you have such a poor argument. I own three PCs, work on them for a living, own a copy of almost every Windows version from Windows 1.0 to 2000 Pro. I can at least speak from experience about anything to do with PCs (or most any other platform for that matter). The problem is that YOU are never going to know anything about a platform which you argue against. And because no one is forcing you TO use that platform, you have no real motivation to argue in the first place.


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## ksv (Jan 9, 2002)

ManicDVNL, in fact all macs ARE upgradable. They're just not built for it. I have one of the first iMac models, and upgrading the HD and putting more RAM in it wasn't hard at all.  And replacing the processor with a G4 is also possible.
I don't know if it's possible to change the processor in the new models, though. But, remember, as long as computer is just assembled with screws, it's always possible to upgrade it 

And no, nothing in the macs exept from the casing and the motherboards comes from Apple. Do you think they own a HD manufacturer? Or a RAM fabric? No, I don't think so. I fully understand the price tag of the new iMacs, and that's exactly why they're still selling the old iMac and didn't stop manufacturing is two months ago.
Just imagine;
1 800 MHz G4 processor
1 60 GB HD
1 15" LCD display
1 256 MB SO-DIMM chip
Just that costs more than a PC costs to manufacture, got it?
And, then the DESIGN, motherboard, keyboard/mouse, speakers etc comes on top pf that. 1299-1799 $ is NOTHING for such a computer. Trust me. And it's quality. And it's Apple. Remember, immedeately after Apple started licecing Mac OS in the middle 90's, the macs started looking like PCs, and they were dirt cheap, just like PCs (ugh), still they didn't sell.


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## twyg (Jan 9, 2002)

I think ksv hit a good point. 

While not all components are made by Apple they certainly pick a component that is tried and true to work well. Here's some examples of why that's a good idea.

Do you remember Compaq's problem with the Quantum "bigfoots"? Turns out Compaq decided to make an impulse decision. It cost them heavily. I was working in a computer service department and watched the same model series come in one after another with the same problem. "My files just kept disappearing!?" Turns out after about 2 months of Compaq refusing that a problem existed they finally decided to fess up, and sent out all new Western Digital drives. The Quantum drives were not tested longer than 6 months, and as it turned out after 6 months the motor that moved the head armeture back and forth burned out "erasing" (in laymans terms) the data. It was all still there, but you had to send the drive out to a data recovery place. Funny, turns out Apple's been using Western Digital for quite some time. (A lot less than IBM though) This leads me to a therory on why Apple's may cost so much. To keep a hard drive in an R&D department for six months under regular testing methods must cost a considerable amount more than just a one month trial period. You would think Quantum would do this testing, but then again, you can never, ever figure out all the different hardware configurations that people may have. Which leads me to my next example.

I had gone to a computer show with $2000 cash. I knew what components were good at the time, and had high ratings of quality, speed, and all that. I cannot even begin to tell you the components because I just don't remember, but I was able to get everything I needed for $2300. (oops, well there goes the budget) I started to use the machine, and everything went swell. Then one day the machine didn't work, ok. So I start testing. Turns out the motherboard had fractures in the sauder lines. Poor quality. Whatever, I'll just get another. Got another. That lasts 1 year, and the CMOS battery dies. Well, that was certainly shorter life than it should be, but oh well. Turns out in the end I was switching parts faster than most people change socks. (Of course that's relative depending on the person reading the post  ) As I was changing parts I constantly had to dance around with drivers, conflics, etc. This by the way was over the course of 5 years, so it's not like I had a lemon, it just got annoying. The endless configurations ended up being the downfall of the machine. During this whole time my PowerMac G3 ran clean, smooth and without falter even when a new video card was put in, a new HD, and new RAM. Those were only for upgrade purposes. The components never broke, and the Mac was used as much as the PC. So, in my case, and in my opinion it seems that Apple focuses on keeping quality high by picking the best components and limiting what can be placed inside their boxes to keep configuration variances to a minimum. Once you keep variations down, suddenly troubleshooting becomes a breeze. Anyone who has put a third party component on their Mac logic board, and tries to get service from Apple can attest that they will just drop you. That's not them being arrogant it's just they don't know how to support that new component anymore than Microsoft knows how to fix your Creative SoundBlaster Platinum. 

I think just one problem with Apple not getting more sales isn't that the box isn't configurable. If you like constant tweaks, and getting better and better lego pieces (awesome analogy Manic) then the PC is for you. If you want a machine that will just sit there and work, and new components don't float your boat, well... Most of us have made that decision. 

I don't mind paying a little more knowing that I'm getting a computer that will be rock solid for 5 years. Although the new software thing is a kick in the butt I feel the capital investment is worth it. By the end of 5 years with my capital investment of $2300 I ended up spending another $3500 (remember the motherboard!) Total $5800. New mac G4 which will last 5 years? $3,499.00 for the "Utlimate"

In my mind I would rather an Apple. When I can afford both a Mac and a PC (a PC that I can play with that is) I will definately get a PC as I like upgrading and tweaking. It seems that the "toy" argument has been reversed.


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## edX (Jan 9, 2002)

> BTW, how dare you say that copycat SEGA is for real gamers, Nintendo is the one who started it all, Nintendo is the leader of creativity in the gaming business, Nintendo has its games in the 100 best games in our history. Nintendo will be successful always becuase of its first party titles. Where is SEGA now? Dead in the console business, now making games for the new consoles, mostly for the NINTENDO GAMECUBE which uses btw a custom G4 chip.



lol   lol  lol  lol  lol  please somebody make me stop laughing before i start crying!!!!

this is the reason i don't like microsoft!!!!! back when you were just a wee kid and not concerned about computers, i bought my first mac. at the time there was no windows. then Billy Gates "copycated" the apple gui and now all these years later people like you are singing its praises!! oh, the irony of your statement.


btw - i never said anything about sega being better. i said my 12 yo son thinks so. and just like you don't care that your M$ ripped off apple, he doesn't care that sega ripped off nintendo. lol

i think others have made good enough replies to the rest of your arguments except to say that i am glad apple is pushing technology development at a rapid pace. let it fly!! i don't mind my current  setup going obsolete if what we get in return are better products. (and without needing to rehash the meaning of better - it is pretty obvious that most mac owners have made an informed personal decision that macs are better for them for a variety of reasons)


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *btw - you've got to admit that blingbling made a very good presentation in his rebutal. *



i didn't think i did SO great of a job that ed would praise it!  thanks for the comment! 

and manic, we enjoy you being here, but I suggest you should really try out the product for a while (2-4 months) before you start to critisize it... I did for XP, didn't like it, formatted (XP screwed up when I chose "Uninstall XP and revert to former operating system") and am now a converted PC to Mac user...

I think we should take my friend's Original Revision D 333 MHz iMac, upgrade as much as we can (HDD, RAM, OS, Processor, etc.), put on a non-translucent beige plastic overcoat, re-name it "manicMac", ship it to Manic with a note on it saying "Not upgradable? HA! Check this out!" ...but that's only a suggestion, although it seems like a good one...

and also...
*"NINTENDO GAMECUBE which uses btw a custom G4 chip."*
I wonder why Nintendo chose to use a G4 in it's gaming system... could it be because it's more POWERFUL than a custom 700+ MHz Intel included in the XBOX (and I own an XBOX, but I didn't like the FEATURES of the GameCube [i.e. no DVD playback])


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

I find it interesting that most here being apple hardcore fans are the only ones who are having immense problems with PC hardware and software. 

I never had big problems with PC's that I couldn't fix... If I take the argument that Macs are for people who jsut want things to work and don't want to go into complex hardware configuration and software drivers, then how can most of you criticize a PC when you are in need of "PC for dummies"booklet.

Second of all, the argument that macs are also upgradeable is totally misleading. Yeah you can add ram and a Network card, so can you ON THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE! Does that mean it's upgradeable to the form of a PC? Can you use an old Mac video card or processor and add it to a new Mac line? OR vice versa? Can you take apart your mac and sell the parts you don't need? Or buy NEW ESSENTIEL parts like MBs, Processor...? No, unless you are working for anandtech or Tomshardware, it's too COMPLEX for the less AVERAGE joe MAC user. since macs for for simple minded folks.

Third, and this one is for ED.

I am not making myself a hypcorite as you claim me to be with my argument with Nintendo being better than SEGA. Since Nintendo is still SUCCESSFUL in gaming consoles, which SEGA failed in.

On the other hand,

MS who took the CONCEPT of apple OS, not copycated it was more sucessful than AppleOS. If it did copycat, there would be no difference in MS OSes against MacOSes. The thing is here that, MS WIN95, WIN98, WIN2K, WINXP were all BIG HITS, selling off millions versus Mac OSes which were immensly buggy, had bad support and frankly were not easy to use. If you claim they weren't, Apple would have held the 95% marketshare right now.

Also, I made a little comparison between how much a new "IMAC" style PC  would cost for a PC vendor with the same IMAC configuration versus the new IMAC.

New Imac

700MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache @ 700 MHz
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
Apple Keyboard
Apple Pro Mouse
32X CDROM 

15'' Apple LCD

Cost = 1299$ US

Low end PC

Active TFT (XGA) 1024x768 LCD Monitor, DPMS, OSD 15'' 268$
Duron 1.2GHZ 72$
FIC KT133 MB 35$
128MB DDR RAM 20$
Windows XP Home 78$
40GB Maxtor HD Ultra ATA 100 68$
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS w/32MB DDR graphics 62$
Logitech Keyboard & Mouse Freedom Pro 72$
SB Live 5.1 25$
Atx case w/ 300watt power supply 8$
100mbit network card 3$
56k Modem V.92 8$
56X CDROM 18$ 

Another advantage of PCs, you can exactly know how much each PC hardware parts value is in the market.

Cost = 737$ US AND THESE ARE RETAIL PRICES! 

So if a PC vendor who has no proprietary on hardware would buy these parts AT WHOLESALE price which would be half of the retail 737$ cost would be like 300$ to make.

Aesthetics you say? Fine, add another 200$ for computer/LCD integration lets say... you get 500$ wholesale in theory.

Plus this computer i just put together is FASTER than new IMAC lamp.

So you guys tell me WHY IS IT SOOO EXPENSIVE? Not only that, it's licensed hardware and some of it prioprietary to APPLE! which SHOULD make the cost EVEN LESS!

You blame it on R&D? Gamecube was R&D for 4 years with the latest technologies in it for full power and its size is like smaller than the G4 cube, AND ITS ONLY 199$ CHEAPER THAN ALL OTHER CONSOLES!

SO NOW YOU TELL ME, YOU TELL ME WHY APPLE HAS SUCH A HIGH PRICE TAG! COMMON GUYS, ADMIT IT, Steve is getting too greedy!


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## ulrik (Jan 9, 2002)

qed


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

Active TFT (XGA) 1024x768 LCD Monitor, DPMS, OSD 15'' 268$ 
Duron 1.2GHZ 72$ 
FIC KT133 MB 35$ 
128MB DDR RAM 20$ 
Windows XP Home 78$ 
40GB Maxtor HD Ultra ATA 100 68$ 
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS w/32MB DDR graphics 62$ 
Logitech Keyboard & Mouse Freedom Pro 72$ 
SB Live 5.1 25$ 
Atx case w/ 300watt power supply 8$ 
100mbit network card 3$ 
56k Modem V.92 8$ 
56X CDROM 18$ 

Where did you find those prices?! I found a good site and thought THEIR prices were cheap! Not by a long shot! i need to build a small PC for my sisters and I'm not giving this one away to them if I can build one for less...

and this is probably the only time you'll see me and manic on the same page...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

www.pricewatch.com I thought I was on Ignore


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## The Madhatter (Jan 9, 2002)

Manic, you say that previous versions of MacOS were buggy.  Certainly you are not saying that Win95, Win98, and the rest of the Windows versions were not buggy?  Almost everyone I have ever met has complained about Windows (all versions, but less so with XP) being unstable, much more so than my old Macs.  I had an old Apple IISi from '91 and it was solid as a rock.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

why does it look like it has been designed from iMac styling? translucent blue, radical curves... hmm...


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## ~~NeYo~~ (Jan 9, 2002)

i'm sure everyone will agree that Computer Looks Awful... it looks really tacky! ...But Hey...it's a start! Who Wants a nice Beige Monitor, and PC Unit!? 

hehe! 
i love my black Setup...!  

NeYo


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

Isn't that professional or what?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

i have to say that does look nice.... very good job... but the purple room... WHATS UP WITH THAT!?


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

My brothers taste, even though I am guilty of buying a purple Gamecube


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

that makes much better sense now...


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## theed (Jan 9, 2002)

There's a thread around here somewhere that a bunch of us posted our desktops to.  You should find it.  It's worth while.

Me personally, I'm a big fan of form follows function and Bauhaus minimalism.  The purpose of those flat speakers is to save space, the manner in which you have them uses space.  It seems like a waste to me, could you mount them on the wall behind? Or set them on top of the monitor?

Sound design theory states that the first thing you do when physically moving a speaker if you like its sound position is move it vertically.  Humans aro bad at distinguishing vertical sound deviation.

As for that $3 network card ... it can lick my crack.  I've done WAY too much network support to do anything other than laugh at the $3 network card.  Say what you want.

And finally, back to my original thought of you wasting your desk.  Just think how much more desk you'd have if that were an iMac on a stick.  You could actually put stuff on your desk again.  ;-)

You see, I'm gonna opt out of this thread now.  I'm tired of arguing, and then arguing again using smaller words.  Manic, you have hope yet, as you are at least curious enough about Macs to read the forum, but you're just not emotionally mature enough yet to realize that other people have points, and what those points are.  There is a serious communication problem.  And I'm referring to more than vocabulary.  If you're going to debate anything and be taken seriously, you're going to have to occasionally and publicly concede on points.  Most of us don't like talking when we're not being listened to.  And since I'm talking at a level of sophistication that you don't even seem to hear ... I'm glad you've started posting in a more civilized manner.  I'm not one to hold grudges.  I'm not one to continue to beat my head against a wall.  Goodbye.


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## edX (Jan 9, 2002)

it's so nice to see you two getting along now after all that!! we can agree on some things and not on others and still be ok. manic that really is a nice setup. much neater than mine with all those wires we've discussed. even you have to admit that your system is probably a lot nicer than that of the 'average' pc user. i personally would feel just as uncomfortable with your seemingly sterile environment as you would in my chaotic clutter. i am sure that each fits us to a T.  
btw - you will find our other thread in the windows forum. you do visit the windows forum don't you?

now i am one of the ones who hasn't got a world of experience on a pc. but i have some. many people in this thread have told you about their vast combined experience and how they came to like macs better. why are you ignoring them and saying that people love macs because they don't know pc's? if you reread this thread, the overwhelming response is that these people love macs because they do know pc's.

and as for your defense of m$, lets take another little step back to before you knew what  computer was.  m$ was once a great little company. they did wonderful things for the mac. at the time, ibm's ran the business world and apple sat at home. Mr. Dos was a powerful work horse. Mr. Macintosh, GUI was so friendly and easy to use. yea, ol mac had his quirks and he threw up all over the carpet every now and then. tech support was minmal. there was no real computer industry like we know today. then we get to that point where bill and m$ swiped some code and made something similar enough to mac's personality that people would like it, but different enough they wouldn't end in jail. now since businesses already had the ibm's running at costs that would make you faint still today, they wanted to use this new gui that worked on theri computers. and they trained thousands of people how to do it. yea, in those days the real geeks only used ibm. those people wanted what they had learned to use at home. not to mention that compatibility issue. this was long before macs learned to read and write pc (actually this is before they were called pc's). so ibm started to make home computers to capture that market. the rest is history as theysay. it had nothing to do with windows being better. very few people i knew back then would say anything so naive. it had to do with marketing and the theft of a way of computing. 
really you should get down on your knees and thank God for Steve Jobs and Apple, because they were the ones who made the idea of the windows you so love, a desirable one.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

Flat speakers can be mounted on walls, but I don;t have space problems, so I don't need to do such a thing, besides I don't like them on my walls.

I am listening to the responses the mac community is giving me, doesn't mean I have to agree.

Goodbye, you won't be missed.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

If they were the first ones, why didnt they takeover the opportunity? Do I sense a snobbish shrug from Steve Jobs?

Besides, if MS didn't do it, some other company would have... it was matter of time.

Also, I already replied in the windows forum and added a few new posts, I think it's you who should check it out.


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## Jadey (Jan 9, 2002)

A setup like that would not cost $737.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

and ducks are red...


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

Some have red on them... and Billy Madison (Adam Sandler) made one blue... 

but I noticed on that site you gave me and the specs you listed, that you had some bare-bottom prices. I would pick some that are a bit more, from a more widely known brand, just to have some sort of quality assurance... i hate CHEAP PRODUCTS... they break a bit easily...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

Which country you from?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *If they were the first ones, why didnt they takeover the opportunity? Do I sense a snobbish shrug from Steve Jobs?*



Haven't you heard some of Microsoft's tactics? That was part of their anit-trust case... they used forceful methods (now, I don't mean physically forceful, but financially, supportively, etc.) to make certain computer corporations choose their software over others. 

Linux and all that would be much bigger (ever notice those commercials for IBM servers running LINUX and not Windows 2000?)

Although I see your point, Apple may not have made it in the long run anyways since they didn't support the x86 architecture, but you have to give it to them a round of applause... almost encountering total demise, bringing back Steve Jobs and restructuring the whole company, returning millions (billions?) in profit while other smaller PC manufacturers struggle to keep their bottom line, eventually biting the dust (Quantex, Pionex, Inteva, Cybermax, and countless others). This company has gone through almost everything.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 9, 2002)

my country?! United States of America!!!!


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 9, 2002)

Then i can't help you on where to buy your stuff, I only know Canada


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## edX (Jan 10, 2002)

> If they were the first ones, why didnt they takeover the opportunity? Do I sense a snobbish shrug from Steve Jobs?



actually IBM went to Steve first. he told them he wanted to talk with lawyers first. they said no. they went to Billy's house and Billy said sure with out questioning. You have to understand that IBM was the bad guy/big brother then. IBM helped finance and supported the war in Vietnam.  IBM employes all wore black or dark blue suits with white shirts and polished black shoes. They were the establishment in every bad meaning of the word. Steve didn't trust them. rightfully so.  at that point in time nobody was going to "takeover" IBM.  About the only thing i like about Bill Gates is that he ended up helping to screw IBM. But only so he/m$ could take their place. 

before you ask me any more questions about a history i lived and you are naive about, i suggest you watch "Pirates of Silicon Valley".  It is actually an excellent movie about the beginnings of the computer industry in general, not just Apple. I think you would learn some things of interest to your position in it as well.
see, the funny thing is that i used to be mad about the way things worked out. now i'm glad.  i don't worry about the latest trendy virus. I can open my email without virus scanning it. I love my computer - my Mac. I will always be willing to put down those extra bucks you worry so much about, just to know i am using an Apple. would you rather i am unhappy by having something you want rather than what i want?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 10, 2002)

good points there ed... i'd rather spend a few extra hundred bucks for the quality and assurance of having a machine that is so well built, and the looks are also a contributing factor 

and that movie is awesome, one of my all time favorites.. i just wish I could find it on DVD... or even when I recorded it on VHS...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

Ed Spruiell

You just went to far this time, companies are made to do business, I don't see anything wrong with IBM or Microsoft, I think that makes a hypocrite of yourself since you are living in a capitalist system and North American values whcih are to expand and make as much money you can. I don't see why MS should be punished or given the evil eye because it got to be too successful. That's horse****. Also, I don't care for your argument Steve Jobs being a saint and all, he is in the same business and HE LOST his chance and a good opportunity, just because you own a mac, doesn't mean you have to agree with every move Steve Jobs did, he ain't good and HE BELIEVE OR NOT is in the business to make money. So quit that evil MS shit, I don't see you calling Nvidia, Intel, Amd being evil. Even though, each of them have use "MS" tactics. Now be quiet, you are way over your head on this one.


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## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

ManicDVNL, no. no. no, no, no.
A 1.2 GHz x86 CISC processor is defineatly not faster than a 700 MHz G4. No way. Then macs wouldn't exist at all. Just take a look on the Itanium price, over 2600 $. An Itanium chip can be compared to a G4 chip (still not as fast, though, and doesn't work with any apps), they're both waay more complex and faster than a pentium/duron/whatever. 

And there's a reason for Microdoft having as much of the market as they do.
It all started with DOS, you know, a lot of people already had cheap PC's. Then windows, the mac rip-off, came, and of course people bought windows instaed of buying a mac, 'cos they didn't need a new machine. And they continued to buy PC's because they teoretically were cheaper than macs. In fact they aren't, (at least not for newbies who don't know how to take apart a PC), because the parts in a PC are so cheap and heavily over-manufactured that they have to be replaced and repaired every year. Mac's from early 90's are still in use. Try to find a PC from the 90's that isn't completely wrecked...
And actually, microsoft paid apple a lot of money to keep them silent about the GUI thing. Still they're copying Apple's ideas and patents. Look at Windows XP, it's just windows 2000 with an aqua-wannabe GUI and a video editing app to make it look like Mac OS X. ugh.

Keep quiet for yourself, ManicDVLN, then we wouln't have a discussion at all. 
you see, if everyone keeps quiet, these forums will become quite boring


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## Anim8r (Jan 10, 2002)

Just want to make the point that for the most part Pirates is a FICTIONALIZED account of what happened. There is really only about 15% truth to what you find in there. I suggest reading "Hackers" and "The Silicon Boys" also if you must watch something instead of reading, check out the PBS special "Revenge of the Nerds" I think that is the title... might be "Attack".

BTW, MS is not evil because they are in biz to make money... they are evil because of the way they go about it. I am sure we would all agree that the robber barons of the early 1900's were not nice guys, well compare and contrast the behavior here. Bill and MS just have better PR people.


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## RacerX (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally drooled by ManicDVLN _
> *You just went to far this time, companies are made to do business, I don't see anything wrong with IBM or Microsoft, I think that makes a hypocrite of yourself since you are living in a capitalist system and North American values which are to expand and make as much money you can.  *



Our society does push for success... but not at all cost. We have protections design to protect consumers from monopolies. Monopolies can charge any price they want for whatever quality of product they feel like putting out. Also achieving monopoly status by illegal means (practices in which consumer choice in reduced rather than the better product winning market share) are exactly what Microsoft has been doing. If Microsoft made the best products we had ever seen, and became a monopoly because of it, no case would have been brought against them. Aggressive tactics like penalizing computer companies that offered other operating systems, purposely making there products in a cross-platform area (the internet) not meet standard (MS servers refuse non IE browsers, java scripts that looks for a computer registry, and we shouldn't forget their Visual J++ pollution of Sun's java code). Those tactics shouldn't be needed by a company that is putting out the best product. The only time you need to resort to that is if you know other companies are putting out better products.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

It has been benchmarked that the Morgan and Palamino core cpus from AMD beat G4 cpus.

Athlon XP 1900+ beating with huge gap the Duel G4 800mhz system

And the Duron 1.2ghz beating a G4 800mhz.

Let's not go back to speed arguments plz, everyone agreed that current PC processors beat the G4 processor with ease.

I'll reconsider arguing with you on speed when the G5 processors are out.


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## RacerX (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally drooled by ManicDVLN _
> *Let's not go back to speed arguments plz, everyone agreed that current PC processors beat the G4 processor with ease.*



Everyone? I don't remember EVERYONE agreeing to anything like that.


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## Click (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *What false way of thinkin, TVs and cars don't need to be changed EACH YEAR.
> 
> Cars last for many many years, so do TVs, they don't need to be upgraded cause performance and SOFTWARE changes ARE NOT ESSENTIELS FOR THESE PRODUCTS!
> ...



I have a Alfa Romeo GT from 1969 and I wouldn like to upgrade it 
My mom still uses a PII MMX 170MHZ and she is happy with it but still thinks its to hard to use. 
I´am trying hard to get her to by a Imac. 
Manic I understand that you are a PC user and that you want to have a expandeble computer. I have no problem with that fact. But why are you having a problem with the fact that some people just want to have a Mac? 
I love my Alfa even though some of my friends thinks its a piece of junk. 
I´am not trying to get them to use a Alfa. I just want a car that I like to drive 
and enjoy. 
When you have a system that works for you and that you can use there is no need to upgrade it. The market always wants you to get new OS and programs because when you do you need a better computer. 
I´am still happy with my performa 6500.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

I never argued you should buy a PC, I only pointing out the downfalls of owning a MAC, that's all

RacerX, I though I was on ignore... Welcome back to the circus...


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## RacerX (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *RacerX, I though I was on ignore... Welcome back to the circus... *




Ignore? I would never ignore you! You're the most fun I have here! I just don't post that much on week days.


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## Click (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *I never argued you should buy a PC, I only pointing out the downfalls of owning a MAC, that's all
> *



My first computer was a PC. A 486 I think. I liked it. Anyway why are you trying to convince us that Macs are bad computers. This seems like a holy quest for you. Why cant you just accept that some people like macs and keep your personal opinions for your self. Its good that we get a pc users percpective here but I don´t like your holy quest.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

It's not devine nor is it a crusade like you put it, I just like to give my perspective on things... I am enttitled to my opinion and it's better to get the both sides of an argument before deciding on purchasing future products.

This forum has become quite helpful for my decisions in future purchases, I hope for you too.

Godspeed Mac knight.


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## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *It has been benchmarked that the Morgan and Palamino core cpus from AMD beat G4 cpus.
> 
> Athlon XP 1900+ beating with huge gap the Duel G4 800mhz system
> ...



Then I guess Steve Jobs himself lied to us when he showed us a G4 beating the hell out of a 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 on the keynote in July  
Take a look at http://www.apple.com

I'd like you to answer my other arguments, too, if you don't agree to them...


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 10, 2002)

In business the word lie doesn't exist, we use the word misleading


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## Click (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *This forum has become quite helpful for my decisions in future purchases, I hope for you too.
> *



LOL. Really? I get the expression that you knew exactly what you wanted before you came to this forum. And so did I. Now I  would really like a new IMac. 
Have you seen the new promotion video for IMac? Why do you think Annie Leibowitch, Seal and Coppola all say that they absolute adore the new IMac. I doubt that its only becouse they probably get a lot of money for it. 
I know a lot of professional photographers and almost everyone are macusers. Why? Because Macs are better? Because they are cheaper? Or because they look good? No of course not, as you have stated everything that you can do on a Mac is also possible on a PC. And the PCs can even be much cheaper. 
So why then? Because photograpers are rich and stupid. Beeing a photographer myself I know that the first part is not true, but maybe the other part is true.
The thing is that the mac is much more easier to use.
Now you will probably say that you have used a PC all your life and that you just bought a PC for your grandmother. And that you think that the simplicity with macs are overstaded.
Maybe. But you have to understand that not all are like. I am not calling you a nerd. But you are a person that have no problem with hitech.
But there will always be stupid photograpers like me that think that even turning your computer on by pressing a button is very hard.


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## ulrik (Jan 10, 2002)

1.2 Ghz Duron beating a G4 800! Haha, yeah, sure. Show me the benchmark. You can't? Then be quiet.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 10, 2002)

If you had bought a mac, you would say "very nice computer".


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## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *In business the word lie doesn't exist, we use the word misleading  *



In the business world the word megahertz shouldn't exist. we should use the words gigaflops and mips intead


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## ksv (Jan 10, 2002)

In other words, I want you to prove that a 1.2 GHz Duron is faster than a 800 MHz G4 processor. I mean real speed, not benchmark results. Benchmark apps are usually not correct, you can't compare two platforms with them.


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## ulrik (Jan 10, 2002)

Even in platform independant benchmarks, he won't be able to proof it, then again, it's just manic aka Mr. VI, what do you expect?


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## edX (Jan 11, 2002)

> if you must watch something instead of reading, check out the PBS special "Revenge of the Nerds" I think that is the title... might be "Attack".



i stand corrected. thanks anim8r!!!!!  this pbs documentary was really the film i was refferring to. It must be 'attack of the nerds' as the revenge movie is a frat house comedy that has nothing to do with our discussion.  it's been so long since i saw it i got it confused. i reccomend this film to everyone by the way, not just manic.

wow, spend a day at mwsf and so much goes on here in your absence 



> I think that makes a hypocrite of yourself since you are living in a capitalist system and North American values whcih are to expand and make as much money you can. I don't see why MS should be punished or given the evil eye because it got to be too successful. That's horse****. Also, I don't care for your argument Steve Jobs being a saint and all, he is in the same business and HE LOST his chance and a good opportunity, just because you own a mac, doesn't mean you have to agree with every move Steve Jobs did, he ain't good and HE BELIEVE OR NOT is in the business to make money



first one of the beauties of america is that i can be born here andlive here without agreeing with the philosophies of the dominant society. the values you stereotype to americans are not my values. it does not matter to me that companies are successful. it is the manner in which some companies become successful that bothers me. i also never drank coors because they donate money to the john birch society. i will not pay to cut my own throat!!
i don't know where you jumped from my respecting steve jobs to thinking he is perfect. for God's sake, he's just a man. he's made some mistakes. he will make more before he is done i am sure. i don't agree with all he has done, but so far i don't think he has sold his soul. how do you explain the $1 a year he makes as ceo of apple?  and so far he has done a great job of helping apple climb back and make money. i am sure he profits from this in more indirect ways. as i think he should.  i find him likable.  i'm not sure why you find him so dispisable.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 11, 2002)

1$ of year ahahahah, Please don't treat me like an idiot, you know and I know he is making alot of money, or he wouldn't have been in the business right now.


Bill Gates isn't the CEO of MS, does that mean Bill Gates doesn't control the finances and money of the company? Please dood, enough of this.... Btw, bill gates has given hundreds of millions of dollars to charity and he has written in his will to give 80% of his fortune to charity when he dies... and he doesn't use the word "cool".

Oh i see, United States is a peacefull country that lets you disagree with "philosophies of dominant society". Hmmm, I guess you don't remember history well, and the reasons why communism was a threat for american "philosophies"... Is that why this free country would imprison american communists during the cold war?


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## themacko (Jan 11, 2002)

I think this has gone on long enough.  You guys are letting this Manic fool get you all riled up.  Thats his entire goal, just let him blow hot hair and forget about it.  This forum isn't for Windows users, it's for Mac users, so Manic I don't know what you are doing here in the first place.  Unless you have something constructive to say, don't say anything.  We don't need it.

We don't need to prove ourselves, our OS or our computers to you or any other Windows user.  In fact, most of us could give a crap what Windows people think of us.  So I suggest you go and talk about your own OS on some other board and let us talk about our OS on our boards.


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## ManicDVLN (Jan 11, 2002)

Just because I am right doesn't mean you have to act like you don't care, it's ok...I forgive you, little one.


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## themacko (Jan 11, 2002)

lol


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## AppleWatcher (Jan 11, 2002)

Hi guys 

I see you've posted a lot!

Thankx!

AppleWatcher


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## edX (Jan 12, 2002)

just so nobody wastes time replying to manicpcguy, he is gone from the board. but i want to be the first to say iagree with themacko's lat post!!
i will repeat myself from another thread - when we let themm get us all riles up, we are turning our personal power and control over to them. 

so let reasonable discussion follow.

btw - i only think that apple hyped too much for a product they don't have into the stores yet. after seeing it and playing around with it at mwsf. i think the imac lives up to the hype.


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## verlorenengel (Jan 12, 2002)

I guess this is directed to manic, I was a former PC user converted to mac.. Looking back on my decision to change to mac I realise it consisted of a few things:

(a) I had tried every x86 operating system available to man
(b) I was tired of the crappy grey taskbar (or blue luna), and no LiteStep sucks
(c) OSX looked darn pretty in those public beta screenshots

I agree in some respect, PC hardware is great.. and it's cheap! You can customise it however you like, but if you are anything like myself I used to buy new pc components each week - if I added up the components over the time of ownership of a PC they would probably end up costing the same as a macintosh system and that's not taking into consideration the failing components which happened every now and then.

I also agree that apple charges a premium price for hardware, maybe this is because of applecare/warranty system...

I like the hardware in the g4 systems, but admittedly when comparing applications like internet explorer on my dual 500 g4 to a single 733mhz p3 the p3 system blows the g4 away.. However this can be attributed to poor programming I believe, Mozilla and OmniWeb are much faster applications than IE for OSX.


Having said this, if Apple dropped out of the proprietary hardware industry, decided to make Nice cases / x86 systems and ship OSX for x86 with each system at a nice price, I dare say the g4 would get the boot very quickly.
On the other hand, if Motorola/IBM pulled their finger out of their ass and developed some quicker chips for Apple, we wouldn't be arguing over which system is better.

For me, the choice of a mac over pc really boils down to one specific thing: OSX and unix.

Hope this helps you in some way Manic, both hardware systems do their job well, but personal preference has to be taken into consideration.


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## verlorenengel (Jan 12, 2002)

I should also mention Manic, my primary video card in my macintosh/osx machine is a hacked up PC nvidia geforce2mx.
Contrary to popular opinion, PC components will work on a mac system providing their are suitable mac bios/flash roms for them...

As the Geforce2mx mac/x86 use more or less an identical board, the only thing I had to do was flash the bios on the card with a mac rom I found off the web.. Instructions are on xlr8yourmac.com I think.

Works a charm too.

So for me, the cost of buyin a pc gf2mx was about half the price of buying the exact same apple "approved" / sold card off their website.
With no difference in the chipset/design other than a little apple logo and ADC


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## verlorenengel (Jan 12, 2002)

Dual 500 G4 - bought it a december 2000.

I was really hoping apple would release a faster g4 this macworld, because I'd love to sell this system.
I have a rage128 as a secondary video card (pci) and two sony 19" monitors.. Great system, I plan on selling it all intact.

Desperately chasing 19" lcds, I'm eyeing up two viewsonic vg191 (black lcds) to go with my new g4/g5 (?) in july.. or whenever motorola decides to keep up with the jones'


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## AppleWatcher (Jan 13, 2002)

He verlorenengel, waarom woon jij in Australië???
Hi lost angel, why do you live in Australia?


AppleWatcher


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## thedbp (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ManicDVLN _
> *THIS IS WHERE MACS FALL SHORT, THEY ARE NOT CUSTOMIZABLE, YOU CANNOT UPGRADE THEM. YOU HAVE VERY STRICT LIMITATIONS ON HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE.*


*

Untrue.  There are G4 and Firewire upgrades for early Rev iMacs.  You can easily turn a G3 233 into a G4 450 with FireWire.




			AND IF THEY CHANGE THE FUCKEN IMAC EVERY YEAR, IT'S LIKE CHANGING A GAME CONSOLE, IT'S NOT CUSTOMIZABLE, IT IS NOT A PC.
		
Click to expand...


Again, this isn't true.  Most additions to computer hardware can be done externally through USB and especially FireWire, because it is a VERY FAST INTERFACE.  I prefer to expand externally with certain devices anyway.  A FireWire CD-R gives me much more use and possibility as an external, portable device.  




			DON'T YOU PPL EVEN THINK THAT ANY PC USER WOULD BUY THIS CRAP. THEY'RE MAN MADE PRISON BOXES, IF YOU BUY ONE, ITS LIKE BUYING A TV, IT WILL HAVE THE SAME FEATURES FOR THE REST OF THAT MACHINES LIFE... FOREVER!
		
Click to expand...


No, as can be proven with the fact that Apple released machines like the 8600 with System 7 preloaded, and they run 9.1 faster than 7 ran on the same unupgraded hardware.  Is X slower?  Yes.  But all you have to do is look at it to see why.  And you know what?  Its worth it to me to have the interface be slower when the actual processes running (Illustrator filters, video compression, network interaction) are much faster.  Another example would be my Quadra660, which 9 years later runs a Mac OS (8.1) that is compatible with most software for 9.x and even some that runs on X as well.  THAT is backward compatability my friend.




			NOT EVEN IN 2 YEARS, YOU PEOPLE WILL ALREADY REALISE THIS IMAC, WHICH SOME FOOLS IN THIS FORUM WILL BUY, WILL FEEL THE OBSOLETENESS OF THEIR "NEW" MACHINE VERY QUICKLY.
		
Click to expand...


So what's Apple supposed to do, not innovate?  The WinTel world puts out the same garbage for years at a time with slight tweeks and additions with fancy buzwords and no real functionality out of the box.  Apple provides a unique, complete experience as soon as you plug in your computer.  Keep in mind that the iMac is NOT made for the type of user that upgrades their comptuers constantly  its made for home users who just want to USE their computer, not fix of upgrade it, and that demographic buys a new computer every 2 or 3 years anyway.  Its a statistical fact.




			IT'S FUNNY THAT APPLE HAS THE SAME IDEA FOR ITS SOFTWARE, OS9 APPS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OSX APPS, YOU HAVE TO BUY EVERYTHING NEW.
		
Click to expand...


Again, that's not true.  That's what Classic is for.  That's how I run Photoshop in X (c'mon Adobe!).  And the latest versions of X run Classic faster than running OS 9 alone.

So, really, you have no argument.

And man, I hate people that F**Kin' post in all caps.

thedbp*


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## level9 (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thedbp _
> *And man, I hate people that F**Kin' post in all caps.
> 
> thedbp *


Dead giveaway it's a pc troll. Mac users have more sense than that. *ahem*
Goddamn I hate capslock.


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