# Platinum Theme (Mail.app) - "The one with Susan..."



## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676

cool  hope we see more of it in more of the apps


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## twister (Oct 5, 2004)

I like that look!!  There is a shapeshifter theme out there that will make it look kinda like that but I really like the new window management.


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## arkayn (Oct 5, 2004)

Looks nice!!


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## fryke (Oct 5, 2004)

Please everyone: Let's call it aluminum. Platinum appearance was Mac OS 8 until 9.22, this one does _not_ look like Apple's Platinum theme, rather it fits Apple's aluminum hardware better. So it's rather an aluminum theme...


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## Tetano (Oct 5, 2004)

well, platinum or aluminium, it looks really nice!!


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

i think fryke is right  the ppl at apple insider and macrumors called it platinum but fryke wants us to call it aluminium. so well call it aluminium (*yeah right*)


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## DanTekGeek (Oct 5, 2004)

i agree with fryke, it looks alluminum. i think of platinum as moer of a yellowis/goldish color than alluminum. this is definatly more silver.


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

well platinum looks essentially like silver. one who doesnt have platinum wires or jewelry will probably never distinguish betwwen silver and platinum.
platinum DOES NOT HAVE THE slighest taint of yellow... 
if Dan u think this is definately more silver. than this looks more like platinum to u. and u just simply dont know what ur saying


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## DanTekGeek (Oct 5, 2004)

bleh. aluminum is more fun to say than platinum. al-lu-min-yum!


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

if this is fun to you, than you can take a walk to the playground. anyone serious around in this forum any longer ???


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## Viro (Oct 5, 2004)

Ahem. Alumin_*i*_um.


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## fryke (Oct 5, 2004)

Yeah...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 5, 2004)

It looks good -- I've always preferred the "membrane"-style buttons to the aqua buttons, and the "aluplinum" theme looks good so far.  I like the fact that Mail will sport a single window, instead of a window and a drawer.

Soulseek: AppleInsider never called the new look a "platinum theme."  Nor did they say that it was definitely platinum, and not aluminum or silver.  They simply said that it sports a "platinum gradient," but never calls the new looks specifically "platinum."  In fact, they don't call it anything except "the new look":

"An apparent blending of two themes, the new look lifts interface elements from both of the company's existing themes and embeds them inside a sleek platinum gradient."

Let's all make sure we actually read the story before we start name-calling, getting upset and getting in a tiffy about what it's called.  The point isn't what the hell the theme most resembles, nor is it about what it's called, nor is it meant to start a war between the aluminum people and platinum people.  As far as I'm concerned (and the story, as well), there isn't a name for it at all, and if you prefer platinum to aluminum, by golly, that's your right.  No need to bash people who insist on calling it aluminum -- you know what they're talking about when they refer to "the new aluminum" theme, and no amount of yelling at them or getting upset at them is going to make them adopt your name for it, nor should it even matter.

Sheesh.


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## senne (Oct 5, 2004)

I think Fryke's macnews.net.tc is cooler than macrumors.com and macminute.com, so let's call it Aluminium.. Alright!?


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## DanTekGeek (Oct 5, 2004)

over all, i like it, but i like the current brushed metal better. the new look is very very similar to the visual style i have running on my windows machine. i can post a screen  shot if requested.


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## senne (Oct 5, 2004)

Yeah, i like the current UI much more too. And yes, this one is indeed too similar with Windows Longhorn's UI: Screenshot.

btw: i'm not saying it's UGLY, it's just not that good


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## fryke (Oct 5, 2004)

I actually like the new look. I'm sure we have to see it in context and actually use it before making final conclusions (and I also remember many people telling Apple _not_ to use brushed metal that often, but obviously Steve didn't care, so I guess he won't skip it just because of some 'opinions'...). Also: This look _might_ change until final Tiger builds appear...

And: Thanks, senne. ;-) I didn't mean to convert people from other rumour sites to mine by calling it aluminum instead of platinum, I just think we should either see what Apple calls it or pick a name that's not 'taken' by a zombie operating system (OS 8/9)...


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## Ripcord (Oct 5, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> if this is fun to you, than you can take a walk to the playground. anyone serious around in this forum any longer ???



Soulseek, you need to calm down and quit harassing the other users - you've been doing this quite frequently lately.

Most of us have been on these forums for quite a while longer than you, so I don't think you have much right to complain about the user base "anymore"...  =)


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## Ripcord (Oct 5, 2004)

Viro said:
			
		

> Ahem. Alumin_*i*_um.



Sorry, many (most?) of us speak this obscure dialect of English called "American" (Not to be confused with "North American"), where we tend to drop extra vowels (i.e. "color", "favorite", etc)

In some sub-dialects we also tend to drop vowels altogether (plz stp crrctng my spllng), which the European youth have been picking up as well.  You tend to see them at the train stations stabbing at little keypads and squinting at 2.5cm screens =)


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## mdnky (Oct 5, 2004)

While it looks nice, not sure if it's something I'd like.  I'd much prefer a brushed metal theme.  Or even better, the ability to independently control each APP's theme.  Have them both there and let me choose which has which.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 5, 2004)

Please do!

The only thing I'm concerned about with the new Mail.app 2.0 is the "clutter."  I didn't take the time to pour over the images, but from what I've seen, it looks more "Entourage-ish."  My favorite aspect of the current Mail.app is the cleanliness of it -- simple, yet powerfully functional.


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## GroundZeroX (Oct 5, 2004)

It just looks like an update to Aqua, but I'm probably wrong though. I'm personally tired of seeing Brushed Metal in about 75% of the Apps you use on a daily basis.


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

dont get too excited fryke, noones changin preferences in rumour sites  

macrumours and appleinsider are still way better than urs


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

senne said:
			
		

> Yeah, i like the current UI much more too. And yes, this one is indeed too similar with Windows Longhorn's UI: Screenshot.
> 
> btw: i'm not saying it's UGLY, it's just not that good



if that looks to u at all like the platinum theme then its because MS coppied apple(once again). of course they copied the brushed metal theme.


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## soulseek (Oct 5, 2004)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Please do!
> 
> The only thing I'm concerned about with the new Mail.app 2.0 is the "clutter."  I didn't take the time to pour over the images, but from what I've seen, it looks more "Entourage-ish."  My favorite aspect of the current Mail.app is the cleanliness of it -- simple, yet powerfully functional.



theres no clutter issue, the mail.app is essentially the same!!!
the drawer was there before but every1 had it openned, noone closed it because u needed it, its important for managing the app...

this change just makes it more beautiful, and removes the problems with the tray when using expose


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## blue&whiteman (Oct 5, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> this change just makes it more beautiful, and removes the problems with the tray when using expose



what problems do you have with the mail tray on expose?  I have none at all.  using 10.3.5 with mail 1.3.9.


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## ApeintheShell (Oct 5, 2004)

Denied. Anyone save the picture? The Longhorn reference doesn't help.


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## Ricky (Oct 5, 2004)

The platinum theme should replace the monstrosity that is brushed metal, in my opinion.  It's much more consistent to the Aqua GUI.


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## Stridder44 (Oct 6, 2004)

Aww crap!! Can anyone find another link!??? It seems they took down the pic.... *weeps* 
I never had a problem with the brushed metal theme, but a change is most deff. nice. I reeaaally wish that Apple would give us a choice to customize the OS more. Bring back things like the OS sounds and things like that! If 10.4 had a bunch of themes you could switch back and forth from built into the OS, I would cry with tears of joy...


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 6, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> Sorry, many (most?) of us speak this obscure dialect of English called "American" (Not to be confused with "North American"), where we tend to drop extra vowels (i.e. "color", "favorite", etc)



Although, in the case of 'aluminium', it was actually the rest of the world that added the 'i' so that it fitted in with other elements such as 'magnesium', 'calcium', 'helium', etc., and 'Aluminum' was the name given to it by it's discoverer.   Although, this thread has got me wondering why we didn't also add an 'i' to to 'platinum' - 'platinium'?


Likening it to 'Color' and 'Favorite' is a bit daft though, as spelling those words incorrectly doesn't change the sound of the word like it does with Aluminium.


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## Pengu (Oct 6, 2004)

> Although, in the case of 'aluminium', it was actually the rest of the world that added the 'i' so that it fitted in with other elements such as 'magnesium', 'calcium', 'helium', etc., and 'Aluminum' was the name given to it by it's discoverer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 6, 2004)

Pengu said:
			
		

> I hate to burst your bubble. but no.
> 
> Aluminium was also the accepted spelling in the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical Society officially decided to use the name aluminum thereafter in their publications
> 
> Now, there seem to be several theories online as to who actually found aluminium, and when.. but they ALL agree that it was called aluminium by EVERYONE until 1925



I hate to burst your bubble, but no.



			
				History of the Origin of the Chemical Elements and Their Discoverers said:
			
		

> Aluminium - the atomic number is 13 and the chemical symbol is Al. Although the name was originally called alumium, it was later changed to aluminum. Internationally, the element is referred to as aluminium, to conform with the "ium" ending of most metallic elements...



http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/content/elements.html

also read:

http://59.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALUMINIUM.htm


You'll also get other sites that prove me right, and you wrong, when you google for the following terms:

aluminum aluminum original name Humphry-Davy

(note: ignore the first result though as it is gibberish - nobody calls it "alumiminum" that I know of)



			
				Pengu said:
			
		

> when you lot decided to be different again.



You lot??  I'm British!!


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## Pengu (Oct 6, 2004)

from http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm


> Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.
> 
> The spelling in um continued in occasional use in Britain for a while, though that in ium soon predominated. In the USAperhaps oddly in view of its later historythe standard spelling was aluminium right from the start. This is the only form given in Noah Websters Dictionary of 1828, and seems to have been standard among US chemists throughout most of the nineteenth century; it was the preferred version in The Century Dictionary of 1889 and is the only spelling given in the Webster Unabridged Dictionary of 1913. However, there is evidence that the spelling without the final i was used in various trades and professions in the US from the 1830s onwards and that by the 1870s it had become the more common one in American writing generally.


and


> The official change in the US to the um spelling happened quite late: the American Chemical Society only adopted it in 1925. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) officially standardised on aluminium in 1990, though this has done nothing, of course, to change the way people in the US spell it for day to day purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 6, 2004)

Pengu said:
			
		

> The bible says god exists. doesn't make it so. Microsoft say Windows is a real operating system with real uses. doesn't make it so.



Oooh, bad examples, man -- completely subjective in both cases, based upon personal beliefs, which are neither right or wrong nor can they be proven right or wrong.  God exists to those who believe.  Windows exists to those who believe.  Those who believe aren't wrong or right, and the same goes for those who don't believe.

A better example would be a history textbook from school -- most contain gross amounts of misinformation.

I agree with you, though, that just because something has been published does not mean that it is true and correct.  Look at the Dan Rather/CBS thing.

Also, in this day and age of information (most of which needs to be taken with a grain of salt) it is *very* easy to dig up information that disproves just about anything anyone else can dig up.

I believe that some people call it "aluminum" and others call it "aluminium."  I don't think you'll lose points for calling it one thing or another -- the recipient of the information will know what you're talking about, and that word is just one of those kooky words that has two accepted spellings.


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## Pengu (Oct 6, 2004)

I see your point. but that is what I was getting at. I'm not saying god doesn't exist. I'm simply saying that just because it says so in the bile, doesn't necessarily make it so. it means the guy who wrote it 2000 years ago BELIEVED god exists.


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## MacMuppet (Oct 6, 2004)

Anyone got another link to that image somewhere else? Or is that frowned on now? It says "removed under threat of litigation from Apple Computers" now...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 6, 2004)

Pengu said:
			
		

> I see your point. but that is what I was getting at. I'm not saying god doesn't exist. I'm simply saying that just because it says so in the bile, doesn't necessarily make it so. it means the guy who wrote it 2000 years ago BELIEVED god exists.



I see -- but the spelling of a certain word can be proved or disproved exactly, while the existance of God cannot.  Also, Windows being a true or useful OS is also heavily dependent on one's own beliefs, and cannot be proven or disproven exactly, since it's belief-based.  The spelling of words is not belief-based -- it's like a simple math problem -- it's either right or wrong (and, in some cases, as in math, there is more than one correct answer).

That's why I brought up the textbook example -- you can go through a textbook and verify or discredit information in there exactly; except, of course, where the information is simply speculation or a generally accepted consensus.

At any rate, I don't think we'll see a consensus on the alminum vs. aluminium debate here -- both sides have dug up information to support their claims and discredit the opposition, so I think we'll just go around and around trying to prove it one way or the other.  Somewhere along the line, someone screwed up and now we can't tell whether it's aluminum or aluminium.  I'm all for calling it like "color" and "colour," where some subscribe to the former and some to the latter; neither being wrong.


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## scruffy (Oct 6, 2004)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> ...the spelling of a certain word can be proved or disproved exactly...



Don't say that to a linguist.


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## Jeffo (Oct 6, 2004)

I wonder how acurate that picture was because now when i go to it it says that the picture was removed because of threat of litigation by apple computers.


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## whitesaint (Oct 6, 2004)

ok enough arguing wheres this new theme for those of us who havnt seen it yet...??


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## Stridder44 (Oct 6, 2004)

Sooo...is this thread about the name (which isn't even set in stone yet) or about the pic? How bout we quite arguing over something really dumb and find a link to that pic instead. Again, they took the pics down...might anyone have a link to em? I really wanna see this!


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## Decado (Oct 6, 2004)

here you go:


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## Stridder44 (Oct 6, 2004)

Thank you!! Yeah, that is very nice!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 6, 2004)

I love it.  I love the new look.  I thought it looked cluttered at first, but it must have been the annoying watermark.  I love the single-window instead of the drawer.  Very clean and professional!

Could this be a system-wide look, or perhaps just unique to certain applications?  System-wide would be NICE!


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## Ripcord (Oct 6, 2004)

Ripcord said:
			
		

> Sorry, many (most?) of us speak this obscure dialect of English called "American" (Not to be confused with "North American"), where we tend to drop extra vowels (i.e. "color", "favorite", etc)



In some sub-dialects we also decide to add and remove vowels that aren't there, such as in the case of the word "nuclear" (pronounced "nook-yoo-lar" by some folks).

(I'm sorry, I just can't allow this thread to get back on track =)


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## Ripcord (Oct 6, 2004)

I was originally attracted to the Mac OS (X and above) mainly because of its photo-realistic widgets and other elements, its air and feel of professional graphic design, its ability to provide a colorful interface without looking like something produced by Playskool.

Is it just me, or are many of the recent UI changes a move away from that?

Maybe I'm just living in the past...I consider the Powermac G4 cases to be the pinnacle of Apple's case design as well.

That said, I'm hoping to see a LOT of changes in 10.4 from what we saw at WWDC.  What we were told was coming just wasn't terribly compelling.


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## celeborn (Oct 6, 2004)

Oh boy. This new look is neat and smooth, but not having a clearly defined title bar is certainly bad design. In fact, there is no "title bar". Brushed Alumin(i)um has the same flaw, and I always thought anyway that those window widgets look really awkward without anything to separate them from the contents of the window. Apple really needs to focus more on usability instead of just the "cool" factor.


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## Captain Code (Oct 6, 2004)

Please no more arguing about the origins of Aluminum in this thread.  Move it to the Cafe if you want, or if you are done, then that's good.


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## soulseek (Oct 6, 2004)

captain code. ur a bit late to break up the fight. about a day late... nice moderating.)


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 7, 2004)

Pengu said:
			
		

> The fact that something is written doesn't make it so.



So, are you saying I shouldn't believe the writing you quoted??

Anyway, I will believe it for now, as it seems to prove that I was right, and that the name 'Aluminum' was given to the element by it's discoverer before the name 'Aluminium', and that your statement "...but they ALL agree that it was called aluminium by EVERYONE until 1925" is twoddle (unless by 'ALL' you mean 'the ones I found after a quick search', and by 'until' you mean 'between 1812 and', and by 'EVERYONE' you mean 'the majority of people within the scientific community').

Oh, and I also can't find any disputing who discovered it.


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## lnoelstorr (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh, and back on topic, some kind fella has put the images up here:

http://www.ckelley.co.uk/neowin/tigershots/

so I thought to thank him for it we should suck up all his bandwidth.


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## fryke (Oct 7, 2004)

soulseek: We didn't initially want to interfere, of course. A _little_ bit of off-topic aluminum-talk is perfectly okay, I think. However: We don't want this to go _too_ far... Besides: I think it's rather the lack of fresh Tiger news than the actual interest in aluminum/aluminium that spins this thread. ;-)


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## Pengu (Oct 7, 2004)

The guy who wanted to call it Aluminum AGREED to call it aluminium. That is why i said EVERYONE. And there are several sites online referencing different people as the discoverer of aluminium.

Now. let's give up on calling it anything metal based and do like Guy Ritchie suggests in one of his best movies: We'll call it Susan. http://www.moviewavs.com/Movies/Snatch/callyou.wav


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## Ifrit (Oct 7, 2004)

I noticed this theme from the Tiger presentation. Remember the spotlight feature shown on the system preferences? System preferences used the same theme/style in Tiger.

Personally I thought: "Would be neat to see other application which use the same style, or as a replacement for the metal brush theme."  

My opinion is that the brushed theme is a relict of OS9 and although the OSX "version" has been improved several times, it still looks outdated.

If the new theme replaces the brushed metal, does that mean that other applications like itunes get the same threatment? Hm, itunes in white...

Hopefully apple don't decide to add it as third "application theme." This would really "break up" the look of OSX.


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## fryke (Oct 7, 2004)

I _fear_ that Susan will become rather a third look than replacing Brushed Metal, since the Finder most definitely looked BM rather than Susan last time I checked. However: Those screenshots are about all we have on Susan and later Tiger builds... ;-)


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## Captain Code (Oct 7, 2004)

soulseek said:
			
		

> captain code. ur a bit late to break up the fight. about a day late... nice moderating.)



This isn't my forum to moderate.  And I was just reminding people to stay on topic.  Something wrong with that?


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## Decado (Oct 7, 2004)

i dont think Susan is to replace BM. it is aqua that is at risk. System preferences, mail, searchlight etc all have Susan instead of aqua. it would be interesting to see screens of sherlock and text-edit to make sure aqua really is history.


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## MacMuppet (Oct 7, 2004)

Another thumbs up for Susan this end, she's a winner.

Heh, darn avatars, I can't shake the feeling that Captain Code looks like Vigo Mortenson...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 7, 2004)

This new look looks like a replacement for the apps that are "white," not brushed metal -- System Preferences was "white" and mail was "white."  I doubt it will replace brushed metal -- I think brushed metal is here to stay in Tiger, and this new look will be for the rest of the system.


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## soulseek (Oct 7, 2004)

eldiablo. if it is so. than i like it  

brusthed metal is really cool  (at least for me) 

and this new platinum look to replace the cheap looking white interface in mail  for example is very wellcome


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## Pengu (Oct 7, 2004)

> and this new platinum look to replace the cheap looking white interface in mail for example is very wellcome


it's *SUSAN!*


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 7, 2004)

Hell yeah... I'm starting to believe that this will be the new, smoother look of Tiger.  OS X 10.0/10.1 was too "striped" -- Jaguar toned that down a lot and made the buttons a little less "jelly-like" and Panther came along and REALLY smoothed out the interface.  This seems like the next logical step.

I've heard a lot of people say that Tiger is too soon, and that they wouldn't buy it the second it came out.  Rest assured, though, on the contrary, that my copy of Tiger will be pre-ordered and installed the minute it arrives at my doorstep.


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## goynang (Oct 7, 2004)

> Rest assured, though, on the contrary, that my copy of Tiger will be pre-ordered and installed the minute it arrives at my doorstep.



Phew, I was really worried about that!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 7, 2004)

Hehe... glad to set your mind at ease, then!


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## Will_Richo (Oct 7, 2004)

Spot on dude.



			
				ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> It looks good -- I've always preferred the "membrane"-style buttons to the aqua buttons, and the "aluplinum" theme looks good so far.  I like the fact that Mail will sport a single window, instead of a window and a drawer.
> 
> Soulseek: AppleInsider never called the new look a "platinum theme."  Nor did they say that it was definitely platinum, and not aluminum or silver.  They simply said that it sports a "platinum gradient," but never calls the new looks specifically "platinum."  In fact, they don't call it anything except "the new look":
> 
> ...


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## nmm88 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yes! I love that look. Mail has always seemed a little too unprofessional looking to me, although I think its an awesome program. The drawer needed to go, everyone has it open all the time anyways, and it looks dumb just sitting there. Drawers are meant to be closed (usually). 
I think it might be a good idea to do 2 columns for the messages and the actual message, instead of two rows, how entourage does it. I really liked that when I used it, it seemed like you got a lot more functionality. I dont know? Overall really cool, I hope this goes all over Tiger.


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## texanpenguin (Oct 8, 2004)

It's odd to me that Apple has established a GUI element called the Source menu, as seen in iLife. yet Mail, where you're clearly viewing certain sources, has never (and seemingly will never) implemented it!

I'd like Mail to implement wide-screen viewing like NetNewsWire, since all the Apple displays are now wide-screen, and a three-pane interface looks great in Outlook on Windows. I'd like it in XCode too, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## powermac (Oct 8, 2004)

I missed the link, the picture was removed. From the posts here is sounds nice. Can't wait to see it, and get Tiger....


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## fryke (Oct 8, 2004)

Will_Richo: Please do NOT quote an entire post and comment just half-a-line. If you want to comment on something, quote the PART you want to comment on. Or if you really want to comment a whole post, just say the _name_ of the poster and what you think about his/her post.

powermac: There's a newer link in this thread. http://www.ckelley.co.uk/neowin/tigershots/1.gif is the first picture, you can rename the '1' to '2' up until '4' in your browser, too, to get directly to the pix.


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## Jason (Oct 8, 2004)

meh

i like this "susan" but apple really needs to get rid of either "susan" or brushed metal and go with one consistent theme



(please?)


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## celeborn (Oct 8, 2004)

Doesn't anyone else feel that not having a clearly defined title bar is bad usability? In GUI design it's important to visually separate components from each other, and the title bar and toolbar are clearly totally different things. In contrast with BM, other parts of the Susan-style interface do seem to have separating lines, so not having one below the title bar is even worse than in the case of BM.  Just wondering... I certainly like the design otherwise, and second Jason on the fact that Apple should stick to one style - hopefully Susan or Aqua, not Brushed metal, which is clunky and completely unsuited for apps with more than one window. AND, if Susan does replace Aqua, BM will be so similar to Susan that there wouldn't seem to be much point in having two very similar interface styles.


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## fryke (Oct 8, 2004)

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Apple does, since they have many bright heads that know about UI design, and they probably don't want to listen to 'user-criticism' (albeit criticism that's founded on UI design principles) even _before_ the UI is released and used by users.

Must say: I was a foe of BM for a long time and then kinda adopted it. I still didn't like it in Finder, which is a perfect NON single-window application. And yet: I've gotten used to it, somehow.

My hope is: Susan all the way, replacing brushed metal for good. But I somehow guess that BM is Steve's 'baby' and that we won't see it disappear until he's beaten with the stick. ;-)


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## Jason (Oct 8, 2004)

I'll do it.


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## fryke (Oct 8, 2004)

I initially wanted to add a note that this was irony but then I removed it from the post, because I thought we all would look at the -smiley and comprehend the irony.


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## Pengu (Oct 8, 2004)

I like the fact that everyone is calling it susan. did ANYONE actually know what i meant (the reference i took it from), or listen to the wav to understand?


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## Ifrit (Oct 9, 2004)

> BM will be so similar to Susan that there wouldn't seem to be much point in having two very similar interface styles



I have to agree here. The only advantage of brushed metal was, that that you could drag the windows by clicking on a "free", area. The next logical step (to me) was to create an similar theme which captures the "essence" of aqua and then get rid of the interface (BM) that doesn't share the aqua look.

Breaking the OS into three themes will only confuse new users and even take away of the "OSX experience", IMHO.
Thats something I really like about OSX. You have an consistant UI. Other OSes felt "thrown together" in that department. 

In Windows XP you have: the default skin look, the MS Office 2003 look, the office XP look, the old pre XP style, the outlook style and countless other variations found in various third party programs.

In Linux you'll encounter various applications which doesn't use the same style as your current Window manager.

OSX (and Os9), BeOS were the only OSs I experienced which managed to provide an consistant interface with style. Its a bit sad to see that Apple doesn't follow its own GUI guide lines. 

Personally I doesn't mind the look of BM to much, it just clashes with the sleek aqua interface. One technically apect is that I have trouble resizing BM windows on my old ibook G3 700MHz. The resizeing of the Safari main windows is still slow and jerky compared to resizing the Firefox (aqua) window.


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## ApeintheShell (Oct 10, 2004)

I think brushed metal was the best change for the Finder ever. Well it was not that revolutionary but it keeps our focus on the content inside. For example, in iTunes I am more likely to pay attention to the source to the right and all my music to the left. I rarely look at the brushed metal because it has become familiar and invicible to me.

When the Finder was Aqua in 10.2, I had to squint my eyes to differentiate white space from white space. In 10.3 this has changed for the better and it is easier to tell the difference. 

The new theme looks promising and might replace Aqua but only time will tell. If instead it replaces brushed metal than maybe people will be satisfied especially those professionals who said "Aqua is too distracting". I honestly think that is an excuse for not getting work done. Luna is distracting but I still manage to write all my essays in time.


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## goynang (Oct 10, 2004)

I agree with Ifrit. It really does make a difference on OS X that to a large degree all applications look and feel the same. Even down to the organization of the menus with all the system stuff in the first (apple) menu, then application level items etc. etc. This means you always know where to go for preferences. This kind of stuff sucks on Windows and is partly why I only used Windows when forced to by my employer (and I'm working on that)! As a (pretty weak) example, I hate trying to work out how to turn the volume down on a work colleagues Win Amp player when it has some crazy skin applied. 

Having one consistent UI is very important in my opinion.

Makes me wonder if Apple could have the three distinct looks (Aqua, Brushed metal, and this new 'smooth' one) as system wide themes that you would choose from within a preference pane. Whatever option you pick would then be applied to all applications across the board. No mix and match.

This would mean people that prefer one or the other can choose the one they are happy with yet you would still retain consistency across the OS. Limiting it to only three differences would mean it wouldn't become a massive overhead to application developers to test against. 

As the differences between these looks would only be minor cosmetic stuff it shouldn't be a barrier to people picking up and using the OS if it wasn't in the look they were used to.

Would this not be a half way house between full-on custom themes (which people always tend to muck and make ugly and unusable as per Win Amp) and a rigid no user customization whatsoever rule. Or, would this just be the tip of the iceberg with people working out how to add in their own themes and chaos ensuing?


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## fryke (Oct 10, 2004)

From the history of Mac OS X: No, Apple does _not_ want users to choose looks. (Detour: Rhapsody, OS X' predecessor, actually had a 'dark platinum' look that was completely customisable, i.e. you could choose _any_ highlight colour you wanted, even those making type unreadable, but that's not Apple's way...)

I _really_ hope that Susan will once and for all replace Aqua _AND_ BM. Aqua's contrast is too low, BM's is too high -> Susan looks right. Don't we like Susan? ;-)


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## Pengu (Oct 10, 2004)

I still can't get over the fact that you're all calling it susan...

what if i suggested we all call it "purple monkey dishwasher"? (this does not imply that it is in any way going to turn purple, or make your mac operate as a dishwasher. there were also no slave monkeys used ala Monty Burns to design the theme.)


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## fryke (Oct 11, 2004)

Well, I guess we'd have skipped on that one, Pengu. However: The term 'Susan' helped getting rid of the earlier 'war' I obviously started (which I didn't want...) about several metal hues and differences... I took the chance to pick up Susan (now that sounds good, too!) where you left her and the thread got back on track, so that's good.


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## Pengu (Oct 12, 2004)

I didn't leave her.. I just forgot her.. like a tramp in the gutter.... oh wait. did i say that out loud?


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## symphonix (Oct 12, 2004)

One thing that interested me was this snapshot from AppleInsider, showing the Mail Preferences:

http://www.ckelley.co.uk/neowin/tigershots/4.gif

There are some interesting innovations implied here, such as iCal/Mail integration (which was inevitable) and some sort of mail encryption. Hopefully this will be PGP or GnuPG based, which would be the most useful to me, though an Apple specific encryption that only works for other 10.4 Mail.app users is a distinct possibility.

As for the different themes, I do like the look of Susan, I hate Brushed Metal, but my favourite is still the toned-down Aqua theme introduced in 10.3


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## profx (Oct 12, 2004)

there is encrytion in mail now as well, if you go to thawte.com you can register and get a certificate for free that alows you to digitally sign your messages, once you have sent a message that is signed, the recipient can send you encrypted messages. I posted a how-to about 6 months ago about this - go search for it! I have been using it for some time! Incredibly easy, just a small icon appears on the compose message window, alowing you to sign or (if you have the recipients certificate) encrypt the message - if you want you can pm me and i will send you an email so you can see...


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## Ifrit (Oct 12, 2004)

Its not OSX related but Apple should "fix" the horrendous Windows Quicktime interface ( and the perferences/quicktime tray icon BTW) and adjust it to the Windows itunes look. Quicktime for Windows still looks like "5 years ago" and thats one of the biggest reasons most people don't want to use it. 

I would like to know why do some people think that default aqua has a low contrast? 

For example:
There is a black line around the title title bar which results in a nice contrast. The sunken in controls buttons (close, minimize to dock and maximize) all have nice shadows or gray bars around them. So, these elements manage to distinguish themself from the background. Where is the problem?

(There might be the reason that most aqua elements have better contrast on my ibook lcd screen)


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## soulseek (Oct 12, 2004)

the brushed metal is not going away. its a shame that some ppl who either have no taste or any clue in the design department or both, keep on complaining bout brushed metal. 

the platinum theme is a nice idea to replace the rest of the cheap aqua theme (eg mail.app)


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## fryke (Oct 12, 2004)

soulseek: if you're being sarcastic, you should add a  smiley to your post. if not, i think you're being quite aggressive to all those graphics artists that despise brushed metal as a viable theme for a professional operating system.


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## soulseek (Oct 12, 2004)

if u want OS X to look more professional turn on graphite...
this is how OS X looks and its beautiful 

im not sayin that i would say 'NO' to theme and colour changes in OS X , but im not asking for them either. the os is beautiful and professional enough as it is!!!

look at the competition (windows XP).... they have a rainbow-clown-look-a-like theme for their OS .. its damn ugly. and if u turn that off to make it more professional and simpler ... its just as ugly if not uglier.... 
sure kendall and Balmer might like it.... but if u got brains and good taste.. then u realise its Damn UGGGLy ..


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## MacMuppet (Oct 13, 2004)

If they ditch the brushed metal look, I'm blaming fryke


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## fryke (Oct 13, 2004)

I'd GLADLY take that credit, MacMuppet. ;-) Although I'm sure they wouldn't do that just for me, eh? But *IF* so, I should talk more about a subnotebook by Apple and, of course, a Newton III. ;-)


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## fryke (Nov 1, 2004)

Btw.: It's quite clear now that Susan will be a part-time replacement for Aqua... Three styles, really? I don't quite like the thought...


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## Pengu (Nov 1, 2004)

I'm surprised the name susan has lasted this long.. i like it!

(and my boss' name just happens to be susan.....)


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## fryke (Nov 1, 2004)

Well, I think it's gonna be rather a macosx.com inside joke. I don't think anyone outside of macosx.com has picked up on the name for the theme yet.


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## Pengu (Nov 1, 2004)

And i still doubt many people realise why the name susan was used specifically....


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