# Mouse



## designer (May 12, 2002)

Hi all, 

Has anybody heard or know anything about 2 button mouse from Apple?

I know it's been rumor for a long time. And Apple knows that they have to make change their theory of mouse if they want to push Mac as high end machine for 3D and video market.

So, I was wondering and I just bought a mouse with trackball.

I couldn't wait anymore 

Peace


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## twister (May 12, 2002)

I hope so.  I'd love a three button mac mouse.  

Idea.  Maybe it will come out with the new servers.

Twister


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## voice- (May 13, 2002)

I wish they stopped trying and just got Logitech to make a design that looked nice(with Apples)

Heck, their own game hardware-section recommend us to buy MS mice


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## ddma (May 13, 2002)

Since the pre-release of Jaguar's Mouse Preference has an option to control the scrolling speed of the wheel on supported mouse, I think Apple would release a new mouse with a wheel (and of course left button) any time after Jaguar is finally released.

But the question is, the current name of Apple's mouse called Pro Mouse... I think Apple would rename it to iMouse in order to name the newer mouse with few buttons called Pro Mouse.


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## Nummi_G4 (May 13, 2002)

They should not bother calling it any special name!  why pro mouse or "iMouse" ?  Why not just call it a mouse. or the mouse ???


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## designer (May 13, 2002)

They can call it whatever they want to...  imouse, promouse, mouse with the ball etc..

Just give me a mouse with 3 buttons(wheel). 

Peace.


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## Nummi_G4 (May 13, 2002)

3 buttons?  What would the third button be used for?  I thought all would need and want was 2 buttons and a scroll wheel.


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## designer (May 13, 2002)

Nummi_G4,

Wheel can function as third button


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## ddma (May 13, 2002)

Many 3D applications recommended 4 or more buttons


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ddma _
> *Many 3D applications recommended 4 or more buttons     *



*Cough* WireLess IntelliMouse Explorer *Cough*

   

NeYo


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## ddma (May 13, 2002)

I hoped it was released earlier... I am currently using a wired one.


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## googolplex (May 13, 2002)

They really need a scrollwheel more then anything. I can't live wihout it now!


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## LordCoven (May 13, 2002)

... I just (finally) got the Logitech MouseMan Traveller for my iBook. Wicked. It even comes with a little leather etui case and everything 

C


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## mypod (May 14, 2002)

Surely it's just as easy to have your hand on the key board and work the two side by side you can have as many buttoned mouse as you want then!!!!


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## aishafenton (May 14, 2002)

Ohhh... Damn I want apple to release a mouse with a scroll wheel.

The logitech (and dare i say it) the MS mouse work fine.. but I can't bring myself to relegate my Apple pro mouse to the cupboard - it just seems wrong having a non Apple mouse plugged into my Mac.. 

Sigh.


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## alexachucarro (May 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by aishafenton _
> *Ohhh... Damn I want apple to release a mouse with a scroll wheel.
> 
> The logitech (and dare i say it) the MS mouse work fine.. but I can't bring myself to relegate my Apple pro mouse to the cupboard - it just seems wrong having a non Apple mouse plugged into my Mac..
> ...



Yeah, I feel that too. I have MS Scroll Wheel two button mouse. it's beige?.....beige?? It IS optical though!

Where in NZ yuo live? i've been all over. me Woman's from CHCH. i;ll be there in a few months.

Love your Avatar


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## twister (May 14, 2002)

So what's your favorite 3 or more button mouse?  I'm thinking of getting a different one.  Mine is not supported 100% (contour uni mouse) and i was just lookin' for ideas.  I do know that i will not buy a Microsoft Mouse.  No way.   

How about wireless?  Any good ones?

Twister


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## nkuvu (May 14, 2002)

I like Logitech mice/trackballs, personally.

I use a Trackman Wheel (corded trackball, but available cordless) at work.


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## Bluefusion (May 14, 2002)

I use a Logitech (wired) Dual Optical mouse. I LOVE it. Two lasers for really awesome tracking, a scroll wheel, two buttons on top, one very easy-to-get-to thumb button (not six thousand buttons like that MS mouse)--I programmed the thumb button for double-click. You have NO IDEA how much time that saves. I basically don't even have to move my hand to double-click something. Just glide the mouse over it and lightly push in with the thumb. It's GREAT! It also looks rather nice, too... not as good as Apple design (although the Pro Mouse never did it for me in terms of looks) but nice nonetheless.

The reason you want to have multiple buttons is, for one, that right-clicking, which can sometimes by the fastest or even the only way to accomplish certain tasks, is much more useful with two buttons. You don't have to "remember" to try control-clicking; it's just sort of an extension of your normal clicking. Scroll wheels are just GREAT, and the thumb button I find very useful to double-click with.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 14, 2002)

Extending upon Bluefusion's post, Does OS X Allow you to setup everything, to Single Click?!

On XP, i've defined everything to be activated, clicked (or whatever ) With one simple Click! 

Allowing me to Define what the other 3 buttons and Scroll Whell do! hehe!

...Just Curious?!  ... If not, maybe its something they should include?! 

NeYo


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## Bluefusion (May 14, 2002)

Logitech's drivers allow this, but the Mac OS system does not. Jaguar does offer a scroll speed control, however. It works better than Logitech's.


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## simX (May 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ~~NeYo~~ _
> *Extending upon Bluefusion's post, Does OS X Allow you to setup everything, to Single Click?!
> 
> On XP, i've defined everything to be activated, clicked (or whatever ) With one simple Click!
> ...



OS X allows you to setup everything with ONLY "left clicks".

This is a superior philosophy, and I hope Apple doesn't go nuts and deviate from it.  It has been demonstrated many, MANY times that first-time users of computers have trouble when using multi-buttoned mice.  Just because computers are more complicated today doesn't mean they can't be easy to use.

As such, Apple has always made it so that you don't need to use right-clicks to set anything, contrary to Windows where some functions MUST be activated by right-clicks.  This is unfortunate, because you could miss some settings, and it just makes everything more complicated.

If Apple ever does release a multi-buttoned mouse, it will not be a standard config on anything except the PowerMac, and probably not even that.


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## ~~NeYo~~ (May 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by simX _
> *
> *



SimX, you missed my point, maybe a picture, kinda Displays what i meant more Quickly! 







...Do you get what i mean?! i find navigating through a system one a one simple Left click (rather than two) far easier, thats what i was getting at! 

NeYo


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## Oo cwilson (May 14, 2002)

okay, you don't have to use right-click to do anything.
instead, you have to control click, or click and hold. 

i don't see how this is any better... it's actually harder in most cases. i think apple should suck it up and admit their error and move on with things. sometimes simplicity must be sacrificed for functionality, and that's a sacrifice i'm willing to make.


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## phatsharpie (May 14, 2002)

I bought myself a new Logitech travel mouse, and I love being able to right-click again.

It'd be nice if Apple makes it a BTO option.

Also, I wish there is a left mouse button for trackpads on the PowerBook.

Since TiBooks are "professional" machines, why not include the second button? Leave the "consumer" machines with one button.


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## Bluefusion (May 14, 2002)

The thing is that a lot of times, even Apple has programmed functions in that are in a right-click menu. It's just a lot easier to right-click a message in mail to move it to a folder, reply, etc. It's MUCH faster than control-clicking, even if you have your hand on the keyboard (which I don't, usually, because I have my keyboard pushed back to make room for some book I'm trying to read), even if you have your hand on the keys it's a seperate thought process, versus just being able to quickly and easily use the same hand to do multiple tasks. It makes ya feel more efficient


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## nkuvu (May 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Oo cwilson _
> *okay, you don't have to use right-click to do anything.
> instead, you have to control click, or click and hold.
> 
> i don't see how this is any better... it's actually harder in most cases. i think apple should suck it up and admit their error and move on with things. sometimes simplicity must be sacrificed for functionality, and that's a sacrifice i'm willing to make. *


How is this harder?  I have helped a lot of people when they got completely confused about left versus right clicking (I used to work as a lab assistant in a computer lab).  I never saw anyone have that problem on a Mac.  (Strange but true!   (OK, not so strange if anyone connects that there's only one button...  ))  Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that is in a context menu on the Mac that isn't somewhere else.  So I don't believe you ever _have_ to control or right click.  Sure, power users can control click and get something done faster, but it's still very new-user friendly.

And if you can't have simplicity with your funtionality, you've lost something along the way, IMO.

NeYo:  Is that spiral thing your mouse pointer??


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## Koelling (May 14, 2002)

Apple makes the whole widget but why is it necessary that they make a new mouse for us "Pro" users? I agree 100% that I am more effective with a multi button mouse but this is not the case for everyone. Let Apple keep with selling their computers with one button and just go find your own multi button mouse. It's not that hard of a system and it leaves the pressure off Apple to find the "One True Way" which people are ALWAYS assuming Apple can produce. 

I love my cordless Logitech Mouseman mouse but not everyone does. Having to replace batteries is a big hassle to many people. There will never be a mouse that everyone likes so I believe Apple is right in selling the simple, then letting the "Pro" users get their own personal preferred mouse.

I used to agree with people that Apple should provide a multi button mouse but I was wrong. So are you if you think that every product Apple sells will appeal to every man woman and child.


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## aishafenton (May 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by alexachucarro _
> *
> 
> Yeah, I feel that too. I have MS Scroll Wheel two button mouse. it's beige?.....beige?? It IS optical though!
> ...




Alexachucarro, I live in central city Auckland. If you come through Auckland we should grab a coffee 

Koelling, I agree in principle but I also kinda think that for the 95% of pc users out there, using a one buttoned mouse is for pros only. 

When my mum used my mac, she was so used to scrolling with the scroll wheel, that having to click that little pointer on that little scroll arrow all the time was quite hard work. In fact it's only the pro mac users that know how to use the keyboard shortcuts to make life a little easier.  

I guess that a true first time user *would* find a one button mouse more intuitive, but how many of those are there left in the world? Most users will be intermediate users - and for an intermediate user (who doesn't know the keyboard shortcuts) a scroll wheel will be easier to use.


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## changomarcelo (May 16, 2002)

I think they shoul call it "El Ratón"



> _Originally posted by Nummi_G4 _
> *They should not bother calling it any special name!  why pro mouse or "iMouse" ?  Why not just call it a mouse. or the mouse ??? *


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## hazmat (May 17, 2002)

I really hate Logitech with a passion.  For now on, unless Apple releases some really cool 3-button (wheel) mouse, I am sticking with Kensington.  I love them.  Great products, and great company.  In comparison, Logitech sucks ass.


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## Bluefusion (May 17, 2002)

Really? Hmmm... why?

I hated Logitech when we were forced to use their BAD mice with our PCs (they definitely make some bad mice) but I realized that the Windows tracking was mostly to blame. I bought a Logitech mouse apprehensively for my Mac and was amazed out how well it worked--in comparison, the same mouse running under Windows was enough for me to want to throw the whole computer out the window!


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## Hypernate (May 17, 2002)

Well, I have an idea for a multi-button mouse. This is the one i bring up EVERY time the topic comes up!

Well, take the current Pro Mouse, and add a wheel to it. Then, take the side bits that are used to keep the mouse clicked if you lift it, and make them longer, and turn the front into a button on each side. 

This way, the beginners can use it as a one button mouse with a wheel (as long as the OS still works the same way as it currently does, with one button functionality. 

Also, there could be the current mouse as the standard one, and have the Pro Pro Mouse as an option.

Just my 0.01 (the conversion of AU$0.02)


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## mypod (May 17, 2002)

I'm in the uk and considering buying a Ti G4

These are the price comparisions 
Fast
UK price in USDollars $3,137.77
US price in USDollars $2,499.00

Faster
UK price in USDollars $4,013.92
US price in USDollars $3,199.00 

Ultimate
UK price in USDollars $4,758.59
US price in USDollars $3,799.00

Absolutely Crazy prices. 

It would be cheaper to fly to the states and buy it there!


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## genghiscohen (May 18, 2002)

I use a Kensington Mouse-in-a-Box Optical Pro (wired) 5-button-&-scrollwheel mouse ($30).  *Love* it!  Kensington keeps its drivers up-to-date, and their software enables chording (pressing 2 buttons at once for even more commands) and application-specific button programming.  And their customer support is first-rate!


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## serpicolugnut (May 18, 2002)

than the Kensington Mouse In a Box Optical is their Optical Elite mouse. It has a nicer feel, not so low of a profile, and a nice blue glow to it.

Kensington also has the best mouse drivers out now. Not some Carbon hack like MS, but a newly created Cocoa System preference that allow for maximum customization. And it keeps getting updated. Each version better than the last...


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## fryke (May 18, 2002)

gosh, i sure wish i had a kensington. would i be fiddling with the cocoa control panel all day? i've got an intellimouse optical by microsoft. it's the best mouse ever with the *right* number of buttons (3, including a wheel) and - guess what - i don't actually *need* a driver, because apple has *built one in* in Mac OS X since 10.0! works out of the box. no tinkering needed. know what i hate? mouse drivers and their control panels. if you need so many feature-twigglings in mouse control panels, then the design of the product is a failure in my eyes. "what does your wheel do when you scroll it?" - "well, it scrolls." - "what? you didn't set that to 'launch applescript editor with speech recognition'?" bah... a mouse is a mouse is a mouse is a mouse. point, click, drag, drop, scroll.


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## hazmat (May 18, 2002)

fryke: No.  What if you want the wheel click to do something other than default?  I like to make mine paste.  What if I want to fine tune the pointer movement more than what I can with OS X defaults?  It was really sluggish even at the fastest until I installed Mouseworks.  And if I for some reason want to change the button or wheel action for a specific app?  Yeah, I can do that too.  Kensington has all my respect and even if someone puts out a nicer mouse, I will continue to use Kensingtons.  The mice are relatively cheap for what you get, the software it the best I've seen, and their support is second to none.  They even have a forum like this at their Mac site, maccessories.com, and are VERY quick to reply to posts.  See the speed and quality of support emails you get from Logitech.  I did and was disgusted.  Plus, amazingly enough, the optics on my Mouse-In-A-Box Optical are smoother and more precise than the Wireless Intellimouse Explorer I had gotten.  Maybe it's because MS hadn't released drivers yet and the stock ones in OS X didn't work well enough, I don't know.

Thanks, Kensington.


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## serpicolugnut (May 18, 2002)

Yeah, I like the MS Optical mice too (I have to Intellimouse Explorers and one Intellimouse Optical). And the driver is OK, but the Kensington drivers are much better.

And while Apple has built in basic right click and scroll wheel functionality in to 90% of the OS (can we please have scroll wheel support in Carbon apps open/save dialogs? HELLO!), several areas still lack.

First, the fastest Apple default mouse speed is way too slow for my liking. It's fine for a 1024x768 monitor, but on anything bigger, it's just too slow.

Second, I use my fourth and fifth button as backwards and forwards buttons in the web browsers and the Finder, and it's a great time saver. I really missed this until Kensington added the keycombo customization in the latest driver.


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## nkuvu (May 18, 2002)

I used to have a lot of brand loyalty towards Kensington.  But I like trackballs, and they don't make an optical one.  I bought their super-huge TurboRing for work, and was able to use it for a few months (cleaning the stupid rollers almost daily).  Then I got some gunk on the rubber part of the roller, and it turned to mush.  I asked Kensington if they were planning to make optical trackballs and their response was basically "When pigs fly."  So I went to Logitech and never looked back.  I could have had the TurboRing repaired but it was such a pain to clean that I just got sick of it.

If I used mice, I'd probably still be using Kensington, though.


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## ulrik (May 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *So what's your favorite 3 or more button mouse?  I'm thinking of getting a different one.  Mine is not supported 100% (contour uni mouse) and i was just lookin' for ideas.  I do know that i will not buy a Microsoft Mouse.  No way.
> 
> How about wireless?  Any good ones?
> ...



Microsoft optical trackball (the black one)


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## Bluefusion (May 18, 2002)

Wow, trackball users... I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who used them before


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## hazmat (May 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by twister _
> *So what's your favorite 3 or more button mouse?  I'm thinking of getting a different one.  Mine is not supported 100% (contour uni mouse) and i was just lookin' for ideas.  I do know that i will not buy a Microsoft Mouse.  No way.
> *



Wait a bit.  I think that Kensington is about to come out with some really cool new optical mouse.  I have a Mouse-In-A-Box Optical that I love, but will seriously consider the one they have coming out.


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## nkuvu (May 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bluefusion _
> *Wow, trackball users... I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who used them before  *


Trackballs are great.  They take up almost no desktop real estate, don't move if you bump them, never run out of room (where you run off the mouse pad), and can be more accurate to move than a mouse.

They can be more accurate if the ball is large and the sampling rate is high.  Most graphic designers that I know use trackballs instead of mice for that reason.


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