# Apple vs. Windows



## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

*I need your help, please!*

Several years I bought my first and only PC. I upgraded it several times to go with the 'modern computer age'. I think now it is time to buy a whole new computer. Thinking about to switch to Apple my parents told me that they will pay for the computer. I know my dad very good and when I'll tell him I want to have an Apple then I need some points like why is Apple more money worth then other computer systems. 

So, please help me. Write down all advantages AND disadvantages about: PC (Windows, Linux) Apple (Macintough)

Thank you very much folks!

Lars - Germany


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## Giaguara (Apr 7, 2003)

Hi Lars 

Welcome on board. 

How old are you? What do you do (with the computer), a student or something else? Which kind of applications do you need your computer to work with & what other you enjoy it with (e.g. technical drawing as a must, videos and music music enjoyable, office must etc)?   Have you ever used on your PC e.g. any Linux distros? Which Mac or which kind of PCs do you have as alternatives now? I think it'd be easier to give the most valid pros and contros for both if we knew more about you...


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## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

Hey again!

I'm a highschool student who will go to collage in one year but I don't have a clue yet what classes I want to take there.

I thought about one of these new Power Mac rather then the iMacs. The stuff I do the most with the computer is:

DVD burning
work with digital pictures (graphic design)
editing Website
working with movies
Internet/eMails
(games)


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## cellfish (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *I need your help, please!
> 
> Several years I bought my first and only PC. I upgraded it several times to go with the 'modern computer age'. I think now it is time to buy a whole new computer. Thinking about to switch to Apple my parents told me that they will pay for the computer. I know my dad very good and when I'll tell him I want to have an Apple then I need some points like why is Apple more money worth then other computer systems.
> ...



- No registry
- Remove programs by dragging icon to trash (no remnants remain)
- Operating system stability
- Open source community support


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## Arden (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX_
> *DVD burning*


Macs are great for that because they come with DVD burners standard, iDVD, and iMovie for creating & exporting DVD movies.


> *work with digital pictures (graphic design)*


Macs are also excellent for these purposes because you can get several great programs for working with pictures, including Photoshop (full & Elements), Graphic Converter, Illustrator, Freehand, Flash, Director, etc.  The Mac is great too because the higher end models come with dual processors, the likes of which both the system and programs like Photoshop take full advantage of.  Macs are often the graphic design professional's computer of choice; about 30% of Adobe's market share is for Mac.  That's still only about 1/3, and it's down from 50%, but compared to the Mac's 3-5% market share overall it's pretty high.


> *editing Website*


You can get a variety of programs for this purpose too, including Dreamweaver, Go Live, Fetch, Transmit, and many more.  Mac OS X has PHP, Perl, Apache, and more tools built right into its UNIX core, so you can use these powerful tools right out of the box.


> *working with movies*


Final Cut Pro.  'Nuff said.

If you want/need less than that, you can use iMovie and a DV camera's Firewire port, or you can purchase Final Cut Express, Adobe Premiere, or even go all out for Avid Cinema.  Plus, you can get pro tools like the (now) Mac-only Logic Audio, Cubase, and MOTU's Digital Performer for audio editing, and Adobe After Effects for special FX.


> *Internet/eMails*


Mac OS X does not require you to use only 1 browser, and even though it comes with Explorer, you can download at least 6 other quality browsers, including Apple's latest venture, Safari; Netscape 7; Camino; and OmniWeb.  Plus, X comes with Mail for checking POP3 mail accounts, and you can find other great mail programs for free as well.


> *(games)*


This is, and has always been, one of the Mac's weakest angles.  The sheer volume of games available for PC has consistently outweighed the Mac severalfold; however, we like to think that only the "best" games get ported/written for the Mac (though that's not always the case).  If you don't mind playing a few popular games, maybe a while after they're released for PC; if you want quality shareware titles from the likes of Ambrosia; if you can afford Virtual PC and get a computer that can handle running games in it; then you should definitely get a Mac.  If you _need_ the latest, greatest games _now_, on the absolute _best_ hardware possible, and you need _all_ the games you can get, then you should get a PC.  (Hell, you should buy a top-of-the-line PC, top-of-the-line Mac, Xbox, Playstation, and Gamecube because you have too much free time! )

With all these advantages, why would you buy another boring Wintel box?  If you're addicted to blue screens of death (BSD!  LOL! ::ha:: ); if you actually *like* Luna (or actually prefer it over Aquawould you rather be an Aquatic or a Lunatic? ); if you need obscure programs like ___________ (<insert obscure program here); if you're on the tightest of budgets; if you have no personality and you want to blend in with the majority instead of fighting back against mainstream society and buying a classy sports computer.


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## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

Thank you very much for that big post!

(If somebody knows something more you are welcome to post it.)

YOU GUYS ARE A GREAT HELP! I LIKE THIS FORUM HERE 

Lars


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## Giaguara (Apr 7, 2003)

This is not a fast 2 or 3 lines thing .. (but I need to get to real life now) .. 

- Better support (forums etc) for macs (i never saw any good for windows)

- X = using OS X you can use easily most of UNIX and Linux programs. (As powerful as *NIX in general, but you can do about everything also with GUIs.) Those (=unix and most linux programs) are free, and learning better what to do with command lines you could probably become interested also in programming .. did anyone mention cocoa yet? 

- Software? Look on versiontracker.com - So thousands of softwares for OS X and many are even freewares. And lighter than the windows spyware-powered equivalents. If you try some of those small programs, many times the programmer him/herself answers to you if you have a question - this never happened with any windows software.


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## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

i guess there is a lot of positiv stuff. how about the negative. is there something where you rather would have a Windows PC then an Apple (except for games)?

Lars


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## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

hey again.

what about periphery? can i buy 'normal' LCDs or ATXs and connect them over a adapter? and i heard that if i dont like these one-buttom mouses (which i do not like) you can connect a 'normal' mouse with a wheel etc. does it work like in windows? what about sound systems, can i still use my old soundsystem (because its kinda great). and printers and scanner should work because of usb, or am i wrong?


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## Giaguara (Apr 7, 2003)

You can use other than Mac monitors too (in most cases mac monitors have better picture, but you can use the other ones as well). And most of the people (mac users) i know like more the 2 or 3 button mouse, they work of course too. 

I never liked playing with PC games (i had PCs in the past)  - if you go to computer store, you will see many more games for PCs than for Macs. But if you look on the web, like versiontracker.com, you will find many mac games too. My favorite game is Deimos Rising - you can see that (and get a mac demo = not released yet for PCs) at Ambrosia SW site (www.ambrosiasw.com) .. 

Printers and scanners - most work with Macs too. Some are PC only - e.g. Apple's site has good specifications on which work (always good to ask). Also of digital cameras etc - most 'good ones' (in that case sony, minolta, canon etc) work perfectly with Mac too. 

Sometimes the peripherals that work with Mac cost a bit more. :-/


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## mr. k (Apr 7, 2003)

> ow about the negative. is there something where you rather would have a Windows PC then an Apple (except for games)?



well... not really!  but there are some downsides to mac's... my imac keeps me 100% happy the hardest thing i have ever had to do on it is configure an SMC wireless router to work.  SMC had good tech support, but the rep i talked to just didn't know much about mac's.  another downside is that I haven't found out how to get .wmp (from window's media player) files to work on my mac.  That might be a problem if you use wmp to listen to music (although iTunes > wmp) that could be a downside.  The other main downside is the cost of mac's.  A high end powermac costs less then most windows boxes you could buy with the same specs, but as you get into the lower end mac's pc's become a lot cheaper.  The mac's are better (imo) but you can get a low end windows box for 600 bucks from dell, and the cheapest mac is 999 for an iBook.


> what about periphery? can i buy 'normal' LCDs or ATXs and connect them over a adapter? and i heard that if i dont like these one-buttom mouses (which i do not like) you can connect a 'normal' mouse with a wheel etc. does it work like in windows? what about sound systems, can i still use my old soundsystem (because its kinda great). and printers and scanner should work because of usb, or am i wrong?


Im not sure what an ATX is but yes, you can connect just about any LCD monitor to a powermac (all the other macs have monitors designed into them) with various adapters.  You can choose from many nice lookin mice with 2+ buttons and a scrollweel.  My imac has a normal headphone plugin that is for speakers, your soundsystem would work if it has that kind of plug.  Just about any USB device you plug into your mac works from the start, and if not all you have to do is install a driver for it (it's real easy too).
I say get a mac, any hard times you have the people at this board can probably help you solve.  Especially because a free mac is 200 times better then any pc you could ever get 

ok Giaguara covered most of what I did and it looks like she types faster then me too...  nevermind


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## Arden (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *i guess there is a lot of positiv stuff. how about the negative. is there something where you rather would have a Windows PC then an Apple (except for games)?*


I'd rather have a PC over a Mac for:

Smashing it through a window when the piece of sht _doesn't f::evil::cking work!!!!!_
Connecting thousands upon thousands of cables to the back of my computer, forgetting which does what, and staring in disbelief when something goes wrong with my hardware
Getting bored with a stupid-looking, ugly, gray GUI
Assembling a cheap computer out of parts that then fails to be compatible with anything
Wondering what the f::evil::ck program wrote that crap-ass file
Oh yeah, and Half-life.


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## SoniCX (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *I'd rather have a PC over a Mac for:
> 
> Smashing it through a window when the piece of sht doesn't f::evil::cking work!!!!!
> ...




Hmm you really didn't give me really good reasons. I mean I have Windows2000 and I have not had a blue screen, never had trouble with not knowing what problem I should use for my files. So that wasnt a really good help, but still thanks man!


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## malexgreen (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *hey again.
> 
> what about periphery? can i buy 'normal' LCDs or ATXs and connect them over a adapter? and i heard that if i dont like these one-buttom mouses (which i do not like) you can connect a 'normal' mouse with a wheel etc. does it work like in windows? what about sound systems, can i still use my old soundsystem (because its kinda great). and printers and scanner should work because of usb, or am i wrong? *



Yep. I'm using a logitech 2-button mouse (with mouse wheel) and it works fine. It's a USB mouse, not a PS/2 mouse, which are not supported, as far as I know. The computer should come with a VGA adapter if you want to use a normal CRT monitor.  

Check out www.apple.com/switch and the vendors for your scanner and printer to be sure, but there is a very wide number of supported peripherals.


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## malexgreen (Apr 7, 2003)

> _  another downside is that I haven't found out how to get .wmp (from window's media player) files to work on my mac. [/B]_


_ 

I'm able to play windows media files. Microsoft has ported Windows Media Player to the Mac, along with MSN Messenger. Go to http://www.microsoft.com/mac/ to get the downloads._


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## Gnomo (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *what about sound systems, can i still use my old soundsystem (because its kinda great). *


I'm gonna go out on limb here an guess you mean soundcards.  Most Macs have some way of connecting speakers built in.  The guys at Apple are trying to push Digital sound forward, so most devices you will see will connect via USB ports (ie sound sticks).

Some companies are making PCI (analog) sound cards for OS X and there is a underground group working on drivers for Sound Blaster's (Live!, Audiogy, Extigy) cards.

So, I say all that to say this:  Even if your sound card isn't currently supported, it could be in the future.  10.3 is supposed to support more sound cards, and with the recent release of Pro Tools 6, hopefully more will be supported soon.


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## symphonix (Apr 8, 2003)

I have a few technical reasons why I switched to Apple. Top of the list is the ability to run Unix software in the same environment I use for design, office and internet applications. There's also the array of built-in services in the Mac OS X operating system and the really L33T Java system.

Ultimately, though, the reason I will be STAYING with Apple is because of my experiences since switching.
- Excellent customer support.
- A strong and supportive community of users.
- A commitment to developers (compare Apple's totally FREE developer tools, to M$ expensive options)
- A commitment to open-source software.
- Stability. My little Mac just doesn't crash.
- Ease of use. No hunting for drivers. No hardware conflicts. No registry, no uninstall, no spyware or nagware.
- Design of the interface. It's really built to make things easier for the user. I can work more efficiently because I can keep better track of what I'm doing.
- Build quality of the hardware.
- No fans on the processor or power supply means the Mac runs a LOT quieter than a PC.

And then, of course, there's the software...

Anyway, I'm sure you should have no trouble, once you've had a chance to muck around with a Mac for yourself, coming up with great reasons why a Mac would make a great computer. Good luck!


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## hulkaros (Apr 8, 2003)

...a positive experience! ::love:: 

But one should not buy a Mac because:
-He is used to Windows A LOT (where is the Maximize button? Damn I hate Macs for not having a Maximize button... Or where is the Start button? Eh? You mean that Macs don't have a Start button? WTF? Where is Add/Remove Apps application? I hate Macs...) I think you get the point...
-While Apple and third-parties try their best, you will not find some apps for Macs like Cool Edit series... While, I know that these apps are low quality to what exists for Macs, still Wintel lovers swear by their names...
-The same for games... The situation improves by each passing month but Macs get the so-called best games of Wintels and still some of them never converted...
-Although, Macs have Virtual PC to run Windows (and other OSes) apps this is just a last-resort solution... By that I mean you should not expect speed while running VPC 
-Macs aren't the best thing when one that he/she doesn't know many things about Macs discusses about computers with his/her friends... Most of the time they are making fun of that person or simply his/her opinion doesn't get through  
-If one likes to tear into pieces his computers Macs aren't that good in this area... Well, all Macs except PowerMacs...
-Price... Unfortunately when it is time to buy something specific to Macs (a FireWire peripheral for example) most of the time you will have to pay some more than the usual treat for Wintels...
-Support... Although A LOT better than Wintels, still you'll have to go to selected stores to get your support, be it  hardware or software...
-Availability... Some times, when you MUST have that expansion, software, new Mac, whatever, maybe you have to wait some days, weeks or even worst, months  

I'm sure that Macs have some other negative points compared to Wintels but so far with Macs I learned firsthand this:
ONCE YOU GO MAC... YOU NEVER GO BACK...

The problem is: Will you go Mac?  

I hope that you will for your own good


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *...a positive experience! ::love::
> 
> But one should not buy a Mac because:
> -He is used to Windows A LOT (where is the Maximize button? Damn I hate Macs for not having a Maximize button... Or where is the Start button? Eh? You mean that Macs don't have a Start button? WTF? Where is Add/Remove Apps application? I hate Macs...) I think you get the point... *



Hehe, I think your point was: Mac is not Windows.

But thank yall! I think you helped me a lot. If I really buy an Apple or not depends on my dad (because he want to buy it me as a gift - and you know $$). But I am positive even if they are a little bit more expensive. And I dont have a really big problem with all that games. If I really need to play, then I'll take my brothers or dads PC. 

Thanks again! CU


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

Ohoh, I just checked this list http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/peripherals/cameras.html and my digital camera is not in this list. I own a Casio QV 4000. If you know this camera you know it cost me a shit load money and it's one of the best digicams on the market (even if it is a little bit older: http://www.casio.com/cameras/product.cfm?product=4539 = newer model, but nothing changed except the switch from 4MP to 5MP). So does it mean now that if my periphery is not in one of these lists I can forget about it? That really would be a point for me to not buy an Apple. I would have the oppertunity to connect the digicam to a PC and copy the files to a disk or send it thru the network. But I wouldn't be too happy if that is the solution.





the camera: 

  front:      http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/casio/qv4000-review/camera-front-angled.jpg
  back:      http://www.ixbt.com/digimage/casio/qv4000/vid4.jpg
  top:        http://www.ixbt.com/digimage/casio/qv4000/vid3.jpg
  side:       http://www.ixbt.com/digimage/casio/qv4000/vid5.jpg
  bottom:  http://www.ixbt.com/digimage/casio/qv4000/vid2.jpg


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## Giaguara (Apr 8, 2003)

Here Casio specs from their site - it looked weird that casios won't work with mac, if even most HPs do (on apple site's specs). Casio says it works with G3 and better. (I assume also with 10.2, the old sheet said 10 or 10.1). A nice camera


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## Arden (Apr 8, 2003)

A) Your Casio should be compatible, especially if it has a USB port... we have an old QV-10A that uses serial, so Casio does support Mac.

B) We have to use a number of workarounds at my home.  Believe me, if you need to use them, you'll get used to it.


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

you are right, it does say it on the casio website. oh well I guess I am just still a little bit tired and did not see it. Anyways, is that an example that the list on the Apple website is not really up to date?


By the way, sorry for my sucky english.


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## hulkaros (Apr 8, 2003)

...pay a visit at www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

OR

www.macupdate.com

and there you will find many apps which enable many cameras under OS X.x!

You must not be afraid for such things because most of the time companies don't even know if their products do run under Mac OSes


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## Randman (Apr 8, 2003)

As the posters have said, there's a lot of good things with a Mac, especially when it comes to things such as photo and video work. I've also liked Macs because they are much stable than Windows and you can personalize a Mac to your preference much more than a peecee. Plus, I kinda like being on the cutting edge of tech and experimenting with stuff and doing what I want on my computer.
   However, if you are a student, or will be attending a uni, an iBook or PowerBook might be a good idea. You can take notes from classes right there, or go even smaller and use a pda (I have the great Tungsten/T) and use that for note-taking, then sycn it over to your desktop.
  Plus, while wireless is starting to come around for peecee, the Airport is a great system. I'm in bed typing this via Airport broadband while my iTunes is running on the boom box in my room (I'm using an FM transmitter, about US$20, from my iPod).
  If you're unsure, make a list of the the top 5 things you want to do right now and what you may want to do in 2 years. Then go and visit a few different computers, Apple and peecee, and see what you're comfortable with. Ask the dealers to explain why their machine is best in satisfying all 10 of your point. Most of all, get something you'll be comfortable with, then enjoy the hell out of it.

Oh, and while I don't use Virtual PC much since I get enough of Dr Watson at work right now, it is nice to answer peeceeheads when they ask if I can run Windows or Microsoft Office and I can answer 98, 2000 or XP? And Office, Excel, PowerPoint or Entourage, then I can ask if they can use the like of iTunes, .mac, iPhoto and/or iDVD.


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> ...However, if you are a student, or will be attending a uni, an iBook or PowerBook might be a good idea. You can take notes from classes right there, or go even smaller and use a pda (I have the great Tungsten/T) and use that for note-taking, then sycn it over to your desktop...



I thought about it. I don't like the iBooks (personally) and the PowerBooks look great but very very expensive. I will go to the uni and I thought about buying a used notebook (simple, easy, cheap) or, like you said, a PDA. Today you even can buy keyboards for them and everything is really easy and small (!!).

I will see what I can do (buget!!)


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## Randman (Apr 8, 2003)

It's about 100 euros, so not the cheapest thing, but the Palm ultra-thin keyboard is wonderful.

http://store.palm.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1195299

It's small enough to fold and fit in your pocket, but it is just about full-sized and gives some feedback when you type, so it is sturdy.
  I use mine in the office, mostly for sms, but also for note-taking. I wish I had something like it in my uni days.


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## toast (Apr 8, 2003)

Hallo Lars,

Use a Mac if you have an interest in using a Mac. For example, all my girlfriend needs in her computer life is:
- Web / Mail
- Word
- Mail
So Mac fits here. Similarly, all I need is:
- Web / Mail
- Office
- DTP
- CD-R
So Mac fits too ! And we both need:
- Simplicity
- Multimedia
- Web support

Now, your case.
* is 'unsuitable'
** is 'fine'
*** 'perfect'

- DVD burning: *** [Apple has made a specific software for that]
- Work with digital pictures (graphic design): *** [graphic designers prefer Mac for many reasons]
- Editing Website: ** [Apple has the same tools as PC]
- Working with movies: *** [same remark as DVD]
- Internet/eMails: *** [iMacs and Macs in general build around this]
- (games): ** [Fewer games, less speed, less graphic cards than PC]


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## Giaguara (Apr 8, 2003)

Oh, talking about mail etc... I have NEVER seen an OS X native virus (there are few for mac classic and few for unix. i have never seen personally any of each. but loads of windows viruses). I still keep receiving lots of windows viruses from the pc users with the pc addressbook and M$ Lookout (outlook). You don't need to slow your system with all those Nortons etc. and those magister etc worms do you nothing with a mac.


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Oh, talking about mail etc... I have NEVER seen an OS X native virus (there are few for mac classic and few for unix. i have never seen personally any of each. but loads of windows viruses). I still keep receiving lots of windows viruses from the pc users with the pc addressbook and M$ Lookout (outlook). You don't need to slow your system with all those Nortons etc. and those magister etc worms do you nothing with a mac.  *



I use Windows PC systems for around 7 years now. I have not had one Anti Virus Program on my computer and I have not had one virus. So I never understood why people made such a big deal out of it. My computer was online 24/7. 

 But I get it, that you guys try to lets me see the MACS good from all angels. GJ. Thx


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## Randman (Apr 8, 2003)

This isn't reason enough to get one, much less convince the parental units to part with some $$$ for ya, but Macs look cool.  ::ha::


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

They look good??

Oh well I guess I'll fall in love with them. LOL

No seriously, I know a bunch of people who really like to look of the new Macs and I know a lot of people they hate it. I really don't like the old iMacs. Ugly. But the new ones look kinda cool.


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## hulkaros (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *I use Windows PC systems for around 7 years now. I have not had one Anti Virus Program on my computer and I have not had one virus. So I never understood why people made such a big deal out of it. My computer was online 24/7.
> 
> But I get it, that you guys try to lets me see the MACS good from all angels. GJ. Thx *



...your personal experience with viruses... Still, you may had a worm, a virus all these years in your system and you would never be able to know this because simply you didn't have antivirus apps installed... You know? Many viruses and worms actually may not harm your files and system in a destructive way or one day just pop up a window saying: "Hey I'm a virus and I'm here to mess things up"! They may as well just pass to other computers via emails, cds, diskettes, etc. or even that BSOD or problem that made you reinstall your Windows it was from that harmless virus and/or worm... I've all these years as a Wintel and Mac tech person SO many people who believed that they had no viruses... But, oh, the horror!

Believe me! There is no way that someone can be online 24/7 with a Wintel computer and NEVER infected with viruses/worms... No way! And even if you were THAT lucky, it is something like 1 in 1.000.000... Yep! You may actually be THAT lucky!


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *...your personal experience with viruses... Still, you may had a worm, a virus all these years in your system and you would never be able to know this because simply you didn't have antivirus apps installed... You know? Many viruses and worms actually may not harm your files and system in a destructive way or one day just pop up a window saying: "Hey I'm a virus and I'm here to mess things up"! They may as well just pass to other computers via emails, cds, diskettes, etc. or even that BSOD or problem that made you reinstall your Windows it was from that harmless virus and/or worm... I've all these years as a Wintel and Mac tech person SO many people who believed that they had no viruses... But, oh, the horror!
> 
> Believe me! There is no way that someone can be online 24/7 with a Wintel computer and NEVER infected with viruses/worms... No way! And even if you were THAT lucky, it is something like 1 in 1.000.000... Yep! You may actually be THAT lucky!     *




hehe, maybe I was a lucky guy. Who knows ... I just know that never something effected my computer ... And I never god eMail like that. Maybe you don't believe me, but I have an eMail account from the German Postel Service (http://www.ePost.de) and I never got comercail mails or junk mail, spam or what ever. So maybe you think I am lying but I am telling the truth. Never had trouble with eMails, never trouble with viruses (and I burn a whole bunch of CDs and I give it to my friends - who have all that Anti-virus crap that slowes everything down - and they never said something about viruses on the CDs or what ever) and even my Windows was always fast and bluescreens - havent had them since Win98. Maybe I am lucky, maybe I know how to use my PC but maybe Mac is even faster and better. I don't doubt it!!!


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## Randman (Apr 8, 2003)

> I have an eMail account from the German Postel Service (http://www.ePost.de) and I never got comercail mails or junk mail, spam or what ever.


 Do they have an English version for non-Germans?    I'd even forward my last travel expense form from my Munich visit last year. Heck, even the trained spam guard from .mac lets spam through and I don't even wanna get into my hotmail account. 
  Forget buying a computer. Put all your money in ePost.de and get rid of Spam for all computer users (but Mac users first, please), you'll be richer than Scrooge McDuck.


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## Randman (Apr 8, 2003)

> and you'll be richer than Scrooge McDuck.


 And if anyone was truly wondering how rich Scrooge McDuck is..

http://www.forbes.com/2002/09/13/400fictional_5.html


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Randman _
> *Do they have an English version for non-Germans?    I'd even forward my last travel expense form from my Munich visit last year. Heck, even the trained spam guard from .mac lets spam through and I don't even wanna get into my hotmail account.
> Forget buying a computer. Put all your money in ePost.de and get rid of Spam for all computer users (but Mac users first, please), you'll be richer than Scrooge McDuck.  *





Hehe, sorry no english version. But that is the only free eMail account that I know that doesnt have junk mails. There are bunches of eMailsides like hotmail with all that shit.

So who is McDuck now?


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

ohhh ... that is Mr Duck. I haven't see that show in english yet. I just love it. But the names are quite different to the german names


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## hulkaros (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *hehe, maybe I was a lucky guy. Who knows ... I just know that never something effected my computer ... And I never god eMail like that. Maybe you don't believe me, but I have an eMail account from the German Postel Service (http://www.ePost.de) and I never got comercail mails or junk mail, spam or what ever. So maybe you think I am lying but I am telling the truth. Never had trouble with eMails, never trouble with viruses (and I burn a whole bunch of CDs and I give it to my friends - who have all that Anti-virus crap that slowes everything down - and they never said something about viruses on the CDs or what ever) and even my Windows was always fast and bluescreens - havent had them since Win98. Maybe I am lucky, maybe I know how to use my PC but maybe Mac is even faster and better. I don't doubt it!!! *



Oh, no! I believe you... But as I said you are SOOOOO lucky for not having any viruses at your Wintel computing experience all these years... Damn lucky! I wish I was lucky too because I have 2 networks with Windows 2000 and Windows 98se machines with up to 70 computers full of viruses to fix in the days ahead... And the worst part? They even have antivirus software but they failed to update them in the past few months... Damn my luck!


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Oh, no! I believe you... But as I said you are SOOOOO lucky for not having any viruses at your Wintel computing experience all these years... Damn lucky! I wish I was lucky too because I have 2 networks with Windows 2000 and Windows 98se machines with up to 70 computers full of viruses to fix in the days ahead... And the worst part? They even have antivirus software but they failed to update them in the past few months... Damn my luck!     *



Im sorry that you are so unlucky. But oh well ... maybe you have a nice wife and that is more important


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## Arden (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX_
> *you are right, it does say it on the casio website. oh well I guess I am just still a little bit tired and did not see it. Anyways, is that an example that the list on the Apple website is not really up to date?*


Probably.  In any case, many hardware add-ons, including cameras, are compatible with the Mac even if they weren't intended to be because they use certain standards like USB or JPEG.  My iMac's mouse is not supposed to be Mac-compatible, and the software is Windows-only, but it works great.


> *By the way, sorry for my sucky english.*


You should hear my German... (I took 3 years of Spanish) 

For all you English speakers out there who want (mostly) spam-free email, try www.mail.com.  That's what I use; you can select from a lot of domains (mine is cliffhanger.com), and it's free, even if it's ad-supported (like much free online stuff is); I hardly get any spam, most of which I filter out anyway.


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## Aeronyth (Apr 8, 2003)

I have a question about the whole two-button-mouse-thing...

Yeah, you can hook up a two button mouse, but what does the other button do, then?

FOr example, in Windows it opens the little...useful application tasks menu..which i enjoy..

Does OSX have this same menu?

I assume not..but i could be wrong.


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## lurk (Apr 8, 2003)

You are wrong that is what it does.  You get to the little application menu with Control-Click with a one button rodent.

-Eric


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## Arden (Apr 8, 2003)

With the proper mouse driver software (including USB Overdrive), the 2nd, 3rd, etc. buttons on your mouse do exactly what you want them to.  Typically, they are set to control-click, which opens up a contextual menu like Windows's right-click, but you can change this if you want.

You could get a M$ (yes, it's M$, but it works) Intellimouse with 5 buttons and set button 2 to control-click, button 3 to double-click (very useful I've found), and buttons 4 and 5 to launch programs, delete files, save or quit applications, or whatever else you could want (yes, including click-dragwaste of a button usually IMO).


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> For all you English speakers out there who want (mostly) spam-free email, try www.mail.com.  That's what I use; you can select from a lot of domains (mine is cliffhanger.com), and it's free, even if it's ad-supported (like much free online stuff is); I hardly get any spam, most of which I filter out anyway. [/B]




thank you very much for that advice. I hope it is working. My american mom looked for a good english emailwebsite. ill tell her about it. thanks again. 

by the way, i dont know if i maybe told you before, but I really like the community. everybody is so nice and tries to help. there are lots of boards where are just dumbbutts that try to make trouble.


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *With the proper mouse driver software (including USB Overdrive), the 2nd, 3rd, etc. buttons on your mouse do exactly what you want them to.  Typically, they are set to control-click, which opens up a contextual menu like Windows's right-click, but you can change this if you want.
> 
> You could get a M$ (yes, it's M$, but it works) Intellimouse with 5 buttons and set button 2 to control-click, button 3 to double-click (very useful I've found), and buttons 4 and 5 to launch programs, delete files, save or quit applications, or whatever else you could want (yes, including click-dragwaste of a button usually IMO). *




Aeronyth ask a really good question. I didn't get the answer so. So I just can kinda program my mouse what the second and third mouse button does. What about the wheel? Is it like in Windows that it moves the pages up and down? If yes that would be great.


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## profx (Apr 8, 2003)

if you plug a standard 2 button wheel mouse in to a mac, it will work straight away.  The wheel works as expected and the right button is a contextual menu.

I use USB overdrive to set the 3rd button (click wheel) to option-click this is exceptionally use ful when switching applications - it hides the application you are leaving.  And even more useful in photoshop etc for drag copying.

I have notice that when i plug the same mouse in to my dads work PC laptop windows takes about 30 seconds to recognise and install drivers for it.  It works straight away on a mac!


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

I heard that if you burn a DVD with a Mac then you just can work with this DVD if you have a Mac system. Is that true? If yes that kinda dumb because the minority owns Mac systems.

Can I just connect my speakers that I always used to the Apple (input/output)?

How is it about floppydiscs? Do they even exist for Apples? Don't you need a bootfloppydisc?

And how important is the Level3 Cache and Cache? Is it so important that I rather should buy the dual 1.42 GHz (with 2MB Cache) or is the dual 1.25 GHz still good enough? To be honerst I have no clue how big my PC's cache is. All I know about it, is that the processor needs it to save data for a little while.


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## SoniCX (Apr 8, 2003)

and do you guys know any good Apple/Mac support websites or website about Apple/Mac stuff that expalins what to do what in different situations and whats about the hardware ...


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## hulkaros (Apr 9, 2003)

*Originally posted by SoniCX *
*I heard that if you burn a DVD with a Mac then you just can work with this DVD if you have a Mac system. Is that true? If yes that kinda dumb because the minority owns Mac systems.*

No way! Any DVD burned on the Mac can be used in Wintels too... If it is a DVD movie you can play it in almost all DVD-Players out there be it for Wintels or TVs  

*Can I just connect my speakers that I always used to the Apple (input/output)?*

Plug & Play 

*How is it about floppydiscs? Do they even exist for Apples? Don't you need a bootfloppydisc?*

If you MUST HAVE a floppy drive go ahead and buy one...  Make sure that it is a USB one and NO Macs don't need floppies in order to Boot 

*And how important is the Level3 Cache and Cache? Is it so important that I rather should buy the dual 1.42 GHz (with 2MB Cache) or is the dual 1.25 GHz still good enough? To be honerst I have no clue how big my PC's cache is. All I know about it, is that the processor needs it to save data for a little while. *

Both Duals are awesome and their Cache difference isn't that big between those two beasts... However, L3 makes a huge difference when you use any Mac G4-based computer (eMac, iMac, 12" aBook have only 256KB L2 cache --not L3) and compare it to PowerMacs or even PowerBooks (15" & 17") which have >1MB of L3 memory... Huge difference! If money ain't a problem go for the highest PowerMac configuration you can buy... Let's say 2*23" Displays and a Dual 1.42


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## hulkaros (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *and do you guys know any good Apple/Mac support websites or website about Apple/Mac stuff that expalins what to do what in different situations and whats about the hardware ... *



www.macosx.com 
www.apple.com/hardware/ 
www.apple.com/support/
www.macosxhints.com
www.xlr8yourmac.com
www.macfixit.com
www.barefeats.com
www.mactech.com
www.macaddict.com
www.helmug.gr (if you can read Greek   )
www.macworld.com
www.macminute.com
www.macdevcenter.com/mac/
www.maccentral.com
www.apple.com/games/
www.insidemacgames.com

100% I'm missing many more but I'm writing this from my work and I don't have my bookmarks here  Most of the above mentioned sites are sites news too and they cover gaming stuff too... Also, most of them have forums and stuff so you will not have ANY problems to ask whatever you feel like (well, almost whatever  )... Nice reading!


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## anerki (Apr 9, 2003)

*I heard that if you burn a DVD with a Mac then you just can work with this DVD if you have a Mac system. Is that true? If yes that kinda dumb because the minority owns Mac systems.*

I burnt I think about 100 DVDs now with the Powerbook I have now and the only players that have a problem playing my DVDs are old, and I mean first generation Playstation 2's ... The new ones (G2 and above) never had a problem.

*And how important is the Level3 Cache and Cache? Is it so important that I rather should buy the dual 1.42 GHz (with 2MB Cache) or is the dual 1.25 GHz still good enough? To be honerst I have no clue how big my PC's cache is. All I know about it, is that the processor needs it to save data for a little while. *

If I remember correctly, PCs don't have L2 and L3 cache. They come without it. That's why it's never mentioned on advertisment for PCs. They know that all that wonderful cache we have as Mac users is one of the reasons why video-editing goes that fast.

Grtz,
.anerki


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *Originally posted by SoniCX
> I heard that if you burn a DVD with a Mac then you just can work with this DVD if you have a Mac system. Is that true? If yes that kinda dumb because the minority owns Mac systems.
> 
> ...


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> If I remember correctly, PCs don't have L2 and L3 cache. They come without it. That's why it's never mentioned on advertisment for PCs. They know that all that wonderful cache we have as Mac users is one of the reasons why video-editing goes that fast.
> [/B]




PCs are slower then the new Apples: right
PCs just have L1 Cache: wrong
    The most PCs have L1 + L2 Cache (for a long time) but not L3. And thats what makes the Apple that much faster.


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *www.macosx.com
> www.apple.com/hardware/
> www.apple.com/support/
> ...




THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Its kinda hard to find good Mac/Apple sites because there are too many Win sites out there in the World Wide Web


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## hulkaros (Apr 9, 2003)

*Originally posted by SoniCX 
okay I guess I'll save my money on this. But there are always some gay teachers they want to have a floppydisk with homework rather then homework via eMail. Teachers with issues. hehe*

Or if you want to really let them see that you are indeed THINKING DIFFERENT go ahead and buy a USB memory stick... Maybe it will be cheaper than the USB Floppy, it will work with both Macs & Wintels (even those who say that work with Wintels only 99% work with Macs too) PLUS it will make you look SO DAMN  



*Okay explain me please a little bit more - what exactly is the Cache for and why should it be as big as possible and is there a big difference between 1MB and 2MB?*

I will try to explain it as easy as I can... Because the PowerMacs have big MHz compared to their internal I/O busses AND compared to their RAM speed, in order to let the tasks to finish ASAP with no slow downs, they have to have that L3 memory... The more L3 memory the better G4 CPUs work at higher speeds AND multitask a lot better too... However, in real life work 1MB of L3 is more than enough or if you prefer is the sweet spot... 2MB of L3 gives an additional small boost... And no L3 means that the G4 is not able to work as fast but no L3 memory means less expensive Macs! So, there about eMacs, iMacs, et al which are with no L3 memory at all... Or if you prefer is another reason to make people buy those PowerMacs instead of the puny eMacs  

Of course I am trying to be  here and I do not know if I get through just fine  so let me know


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## hulkaros (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
> 
> Its kinda hard to find good Mac/Apple sites because there are too many Win sites out there in the World Wide Web *



You are welcome, here at www.macosx.com ANYTIME!


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> Or if you want to really let them see that you are indeed THINKING DIFFERENT go ahead and buy a USB memory stick... Maybe it will be cheaper than the USB Floppy, it will work with both Macs & Wintels (even those who say that work with Wintels only 99% work with Macs too) PLUS it will make you look SO DAMN




ohh yes ... hehe ... would look kinda cool - or like a damn Macho. But oh well. Maybe I don't need it at all, if I need it still, then I might take your advice


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## fryke (Apr 9, 2003)

Your profile for the Mac you'll want points to several models, sorted by price:

- iMac G4
- PowerBook G4
- PowerMacintosh G4

The iMac would be a great computer, but you might want more from your new computer. Mobility? Get either the PowerBook 12" or the 15". Raw power? Get a PowerMac. You can use your old monitor with it, if you want to, to reduce the price.

However: The iMac 1 GHz seems like the machine that offers the most for its price right now. Otherwise I'd point you to the PowerBook G4 15", but we're all waiting for a new model to arrive that also sports Bluetooth and AirPort Extreme (and an Aluminum shell). So right now might not be the best time for buying the PB 15".


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Your profile for the Mac you'll want points to several models, sorted by price:
> 
> - iMac G4
> ...





Thank you for your advice. I'm not too interested in the iMac. In my eyes that is great computer for families that just want to check eMails, maybe have a game for the little kids, or ... (think you know what I mean ;-) 
The PowerBooks look very nice, but Notebooks ... ?! It's always another story. You can not upgrade them (or if then it is really expensive and a lot of work), it's smaller (not the 17'' from Apple, hehe) and they are more expensive.
I think the PowerMac is a good solution for me. Fast, a lot HDD space, ...


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

Hey hulkaros!

Ahmmm ... oh darn it. I just forgot what I wanted to say. That isn't good. So young and now I have altsheimer. Oh I am going down ...


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## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

Sonic, about notebooks... if you would get an iBook or a Powerbook - when you'll need to 'upgrade' them, just sell the used and get a new one. Macs conserve their value better than wintels, so you can always get a better price for them than for pc laptops. If the newer version of the Powerbook 15" would come out fast, that could probably be ideal for you. 

iMac ... well, looks a bit like family mac or de decoration but actually even many offices use that. 

The USB memory stick sounds cool. I don't have floppy drives anymore .. if you have floppies hanging around now, you could always make a CD with a data of all them inside and then go for memory stick (or iPod)


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

iPod? do you just put the data on your iPod and transportate them around? If yes I do that with my Digicam all the time. 1GB HDD in the Cam is enough for stuff like that. 

And note book?? hmm ... maybe I will buy a used iBook for the university and school. I just need a Desktop Computer. Sorry Notebook for at home ... naww  

But I will look for some good iBooks that are used. By the way are they good? So would you give me the advice to buy one of those?


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

dang I just looked a little bit for used iBooks. Those are really not that cheap. But oh well I will find something cheap sooner or later.


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## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

I use iBook as my main computer. Powerbooks are nice but $ and the 12" ibook is just the right size to carry around - e.g. I'd feel extremely uncomfortable with a 17" PB in my backpack. Probably for the lesson etc use (on the road) a used (and not necessarily even the newest) ibook will be just fine. Less worrying than with any PB.. 

The camera will probably hold enough of your floppy-sized files, good point. I just drag some files (e.g. large pictures etc) to my (20 G) ipod, that holds plenty of them ... but that requires the other computer to work with be a mac as well. (Windows formatted iPods work both with mac and windows, mac only with mac).


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

oh well I couldnt use a notebook as a main computer. but good luck that we all are different. would be boring if we wouldnt. 

so i think you all solved my problems and answered my questions. thank you again. everything seems to be a little bit easier. cu guys


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## pds (Apr 9, 2003)

May I point out that in just over two days there have been over 100 posts to this thread? Even if half of them are yours, that's incredible support. 

A good reason to buy a mac is the support you get from the mac user community.


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pds _
> *May I point out that in just over two days there have been over 100 posts to this thread? Even if half of them are yours, that's incredible support.
> 
> A good reason to buy a mac is the support you get from the mac user community. *




yes I see that. I like this community hear. No buttheads here


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## Giaguara (Apr 9, 2003)

Uh, "community"? That sounds like religious freakism ... ummh.. dedicate at least 5 times a day 15 minutes to your Mac, try to do a pilgramage at least once a life to MMSF, MWNY, WWDC, Cupertino etc... never marry a Windows users, convert all your friends to Mac ...


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## Cat (Apr 9, 2003)

What's wrong with that ...? 

I ::love:: my Mac!


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Giaguara _
> *Uh, "community"? That sounds like religious freakism ... ummh.. dedicate at least 5 times a day 15 minutes to your Mac, try to do a pilgramage at least once a life to MMSF, MWNY, WWDC, Cupertino etc... never marry a Windows users, convert all your friends to Mac ...  *




haha ....


what a better word then community?


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## Excalibur (Apr 9, 2003)

Cult? LOL 

Then again...


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## SoniCX (Apr 9, 2003)

Okay ...

    this here is a great CULT!

haha


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## wiz (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arden _
> *I'd rather have a PC over a Mac for:
> 
> Smashing it through a window when the piece of sht doesn't f::evil::cking work!!!!!
> ...





omg

LOL i can't stop laughing !!!! lol


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## wiz (Apr 9, 2003)

o ya btw: COMMUNITY!!!


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## SoniCX (Apr 10, 2003)

do they ever close threads here? if yes now would be the right moment because all my questions are prefect answered. I am happy everybody else is happy (should be).


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## SoniCX (Apr 10, 2003)

Chip is one of Germany biggest computer magazines. On their online website is a big article about *MAC vs. PC* ! I though - wow that is interesting. I will read thru it and ten post like the highlights out of it.

For all that understand German klick here !


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## Giaguara (Apr 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *do they ever close threads here? if yes now would be the right moment because all my questions are prefect answered. I am happy everybody else is happy (should be). *



We do close threads when they are against the rules (wares, personal attacks etc) but ... this is a rather interesting thread, i'd rather leave it open


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## SoniCX (Apr 10, 2003)

good decision!


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## Jason (Apr 11, 2003)

ok here are some honest answers, ive been known to be pretty ubiased so some members might not like my answers 

*DVD burning*
Macs are pretty damned good with this, there are very few PC answers to dvd burning that work well from what ive heard...

*work with digital pictures (graphic design)*
easy answer "everyone does graphic design on macs"...

most print houses work on macs, but with newer programs these days (besides quark) it doesnt matter if you use a pc or a mac, in most cases.. so in this case, a pc might be better because of faster hardware available for cheaper

*editing Website*
fact of the matter is, 95% of internet users (rough estimate ) use PC's, also flash is a big hitter too, so basically you build websites for pc users most of the time, which means that if you are on a mac, you need a pc to see what it looks like....

also flash performance, for whatever reason, is horrid on a mac... no clue why 

*working with movies*
although pc hardware is faster, mac software in this instance over powers it... final cut pro is a great program that the pc side lacks and you really cant leave home without it 

*Internet/eMails*
fastest net browsing is still on pc sadly, as well as being compatible with just about every plugin etc... so mac users miss out on a lot of new creative ideas

other than that, it doesnt matter which platform you use to browse on etc

*(games)*
if anyone ever told you that a mac would be good or better for games, they lied to you... absolutely no game development for macs, all we get are ports of pc games sadly

---

so it basically comes down to speed of hardware vs software and community really

i like to have both myself, but i had to sell my pc in the move, so i have just 2 macs left now... if you need bang for the buck, i say go pc right now, and come back to mac later on


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## Randman (Apr 11, 2003)

> i had to sell my pc in the move, so i have just 2 macs left now... if you need bang for the buck, i say go pc right now


 A pretty fair estimate, but I have one question about the quote above.
  If you needed bang for the buck, why not sell both Macs and keep the pc when you moved? Or, sell one Mac and keep one of both an Apple and a peecee??


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## Jason (Apr 11, 2003)

the pc wasnt that new, and i have all of my designs and photography on my g4.... its mostly because of the production cycle... if it was a new pc i would have kept it and sold the g4

and my macs are a g4 and an ibook... and the pc was a desktop


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## SoniCX (Apr 11, 2003)

thank you for your statements. to be honerst i am kinda confused in the last weeks if i should buy an apple or pc. i guess it just depends on the money (it is sad ... it always does)


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## SoniCX (Apr 12, 2003)

_Originally posted by Jason _

*Internet/eMails*
fastest net browsing is still on pc sadly, as well as being compatible with just about every plugin etc... so mac users miss out on a lot of new creative ideas

HM, WHAT ABOUT SAFARI, I HEARD THAT IS BETTER THE IE AND FASTER? A LIE??


*(games)*
if anyone ever told you that a mac would be good or better for games, they lied to you... absolutely no game development for macs, all we get are ports of pc games sadly

NO BODY EVER TOLD ME THAT!  


[/B]


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## TommyWillB (Apr 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *...Apple (Macintough)...*


You say MacinTough, I say WinDoze!


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## SoniCX (Apr 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TommyWillB _
> *You say MacinTough, I say WinDoze!  *




actually that was just a mistake. i was really tired so I typed macintough - i dont know why - but i know it is macintosh.

but i just receginzed it now - MacInTough is kinda cool! haha


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## Jason (Apr 18, 2003)

the fact of the matter is IE on pc is faster than safari on mac... also flash performance on mac's leave much to be desired... oh well, what can ya do, i have my macs because i like the os *shrugs*


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## Giaguara (Apr 18, 2003)

Safari was slow untill v71. 
Chimera 0.60 is faster than Camino 0.70 .. tabs, speed, lacking pop-ups without added programs.. IE in windoze can be fast, but lavk of tabs, the pop ups etc <rant rant>

Games? Am I the first now to say I prefer Mac for gaming. I am though intentionally limiting the amount and time of games I have = Deimos Rising, Quake, Snood, some Arkanoid games, and now as the last addition the .mac game pack of some simple games... I did not like games on pc. So before Mac I *enjoyed* playing computer games was on my Spectravideo ... (when Commodore 64 were hi tech) ...


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## SoniCX (Apr 22, 2003)

hmmm .... I still have now clue if I should switch or not. I asked earlier for all the advantages and disadv. but the main thing is (still) the price. Apples aren't cheap. PCs are less expansive.


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## binaryDigit (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SoniCX _
> *hmmm .... I still have now clue if I should switch or not. I asked earlier for all the advantages and disadv. but the main thing is (still) the price. Apples aren't cheap. PCs are less expansive. *



So have you concluded that for your uses that both the Mac and the PC are suitable (i.e. the software/hardware that you want is availble for both platforms, etc)?

When you say the Mac is "more expensive", have you actually sat down and written down the configurations you're after INCLUDING software?  It's very important to factor software into the equation since with the Mac, the iLife suite is very useful for the casual user and can add up in cost on the Windows side.  Are you "being fair" on the PC side with regards to price.  By this I mean that people like to throw WinTel prices around but there can be big differences in price when you're looking at a box you're going to throw together yourself, vs a Dell, vs something from Sony.  When you do you're price comparison, be sure to have one or two specific pc's in mind as this has an impact on things like software bundles.

As you've seen, this concept of the "better" platform is very misleading and can be very frustrating if you want a simple general list.  First figure out what's important to you, make a list, no really, make a list (e.g. I want to import video from my dv cam, I want to play the latest games, the want the most hardware support, I just want to surf the web and read MacOSX.com, etc).  Then come up with some configurations that match what you want to do (be sure to not to forget to take into account "future" uses, you might not be ripping cd's/dvd's now, but a year from now you might want to).  This will allow you to make some better decisions and get better direction.  A reference like this board is great for answering specific questions (e.g. "how does iMovie compare to Premiere for the casual user").  But as a general resource, well, it IS the MacOSX board, so no brownie points for guessing where many will lead you 

Oh, and as far as Safari vs IE.  Again, just depends on want you want to do.  Safari is indeed faster on many sites, but then again IE tends to have better compatability with more sites (I still keep Mozilla around for the occassional site that won't work or render properly in Safari).  I think the obvious answer is to use both.  Use Safari as your primary browser and if you run across pages it can't handle, fire up IE.  No need for an either/or here right?


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## Giaguara (Apr 22, 2003)

Macs conserve their price far better than Wintels do. You probably need less time and resouces ($, time and RAM) for maintaining a Mac (or antiviruses etc) than a wintel.

As you have a wintel past, I could imagine you to _enjoy_ more your computer if you had a Mac.


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## 033 (Apr 23, 2003)

I've used a PC since 1991. Still have a P4 1.8GHz, Dual Celeron 366@500, Pentium 75.

I just got a Powerbook G4 15" 2 months ago.

I like Linux, but it is not even close to being useable for the desktop. 

That's why Mac OS X is awesome. Everything looks nice. There are some UI things I don't like and a lot I do like.

I have mixed signals between my PC and Mac. I switched to the mac 100% now because honestly who needs more than one computer at home.

I'm running Apache, Mysql locally and don't have to ftp my files anywhere to test my website before it goes live.

All the apps other than games are the same. Of course it will take you a lot of trial and error to find comparable apps. The only thing I haven't really found that is as good is: Mirc and Cuteftp. I use Fugu and Xchat or Bitchx depending on my mood. But they aren't as fast.

Internet Explorer is way faster on PC. Safari is the best browser on MAC but it is still slow.

In comparison, my PC is more responsive. My menus open and load way faster than my MAC. It doesn't bother me, but it's true.

I think i've only gotten 1 virus in the past 6 years. I never run a scanner on PC. I just have it installed to scan every month or two. 

It's nice not to have hardware problems with the MAC. It's put together with quality components. I can't really say that with machines i've built. There's always some weird shit that happens.

I don't like the Powerbook keyboard. The lack of home, end, page up, page down buttons is really annoying. Also not being able to Alt-letter of the menu you want to  drop down slows me down. You can turn full keyboard access on but you still can't go to a specific menu.

In the end, it's preference. I can do the same shit with my PC and MAC. I like tinkering in UNIX so I like Mac OS X more lately. 

I like ALT-` and I hate it. I dunno half of me likes the dock and the way the finder works and half of me likes the taskbar mentality. Maybe it's just habit. But when i'm working in many windows it really starts to get cluttered. I can sit and hit COMMAND-H but then my dock gets cluttered. The Taskbar is cool because you can open and minimize really quick and visually see it. You don't see that when you have the dock minimized. 

Anyways.. ask me if you want more comments..


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## anerki (Apr 23, 2003)

If you want page up and stuff like that use the 'fn' button bottom left of your keyboard and press the arrow keys. home is fn-left, pg up is fn-up, ph down is fn-down, end is fn-right.


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## 033 (Apr 23, 2003)

Oh.. shit. I thought it was Opt for Home and End..... no wonder it wasn't working in Dreamweaver.. haha


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## anerki (Apr 24, 2003)

For that matter everything keey that has sth in light grey in the right low corner is accessible with the 'fn' key, like the keybad on 789-uio-jkl


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## Arden (Apr 25, 2003)

If your main concern is price, here's a breakdown.

Macs are like Mercedes-Benz.  They're top-of-the-line machines, built to the highest standards, with awesome exteriors and excellent functions.  Some Mercedes's are more affordable than others: for example, they have the C class, which cost as little as $25k, but they also have models that run up to a hundred grand more, as in the CL600.  Similarly, Macs are built to the highest quality standards, with low end models like the iBook and eMac and arm-and-a-leg roadsters such as the fastest Power Macs and Power Books.

PC's are more like Ford.  First, Ford has numerous "partners" like Mercury, Mazda and Volvo, all of which are at a different level on features and affordability, much like PC's.  Second, Ford has dirt cheap vehicles like the Escort or the Focus, and they also have costlier, more fully-featured vehicles like the Lincoln Navigator or even the Jaguars.  However, Ford is not known for its reliability, and many of its vehicles are prone to breaking down or falling apart piece by piece (as our '94 Volvo wagon did, before we tossed it).

Now, compare Mercedes to Ford.  Mercedes makes quality, stylish vehicles, but they start outside of many people's price ranges and go up to costing (in today's US economy) half of a house.  Ford's vehicles start at extremely affordable, yet they may not have the extra features and they are prone to instability.  A Taurus, for example, may cost less than a Mercedes when first buying it, but it may cost more in the long run if it breaks down or something major goes wrong with it.  That's the same with Macs and PC's: a Mac costs more up front, but you get more bundled with it, you get excellent quality, and you probably won't have to take it in for fixing later down the road.

Ultimately, of course, it's your decision.  But we here at ...X.com urge you to go with the Mercedes now to avoid fixing the Ford later.


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## anerki (Apr 26, 2003)

That's why I have a Powerbook and a BMW 740li


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## Easter (Apr 27, 2003)

he he he 
that let me remeber old "war" at school  ... 

Now If I have to choose ...

... I will choose *Solaris - UltraSPARC*  

to all others ::love:: 

 

bye, byez_


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## cellfish (Apr 27, 2003)

Regarding the odage 'Once you go Mac, you'll never go back.'

As a Mac user who couldn't wait to get a PC back after 6 months of only using a Mac, I am one of the many I know who tried the Mac, gave it a fair chance and realized that none of it is worthwhile.


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## SoniCX (Apr 27, 2003)

Hehe, the compair Mercedes vs. Ford is great. And you are right, but the most people do not have the money to buy a Mercedes (apple). And just by the way, my sister has a Ford Aerostar (1994) and it has about 180,000 miles on it and she WASN'T ONCE in the shop. Nothing was ever wrong with it. And it still runs. She just drove it from Arkansas to Arizona and back!! 

However, it is still hard to understand, that it is sometimes cheaper to buy the more expensive thing, because it doesn't have to be that the more expensive is the better! It can be but it doesn't have to be; you need a little bit of luck.


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## MacUser79 (Apr 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *the fact of the matter is IE on pc is faster than safari on mac... also flash performance on mac's leave much to be desired... oh well, what can ya do, i have my macs because i like the os *shrugs* *



Since I browse the internet a lot, I'd like some more info on that..  
Apple says that  "Safari renders Web pages properly according to the latest Internet standards" and that it works fine with flash/macromedia and java
What kind of websites wont I be a able to see? Can you give me an example?


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## SoniCX (Apr 29, 2003)

oh yeah that would be great to hear an example!


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## Arden (Apr 29, 2003)

SonicX: For what you want to do, I think an iMac or low end Power Mac, with all the software that you get on it, will be plenty for you, as you won't have to buy a whole lot more to get going as you would with a PC.  Besides, PC's cost more for support and maintenance because you'll probably need it a lot more that with a Mac.

MacUser79: Most of the Internet uses Windows with some version of IE, usually 5.x or 6.  Therefore, webmasters usually optimize their sites for IE, which does not adhere to the latest standards as Safari does.  Therefore, Safari is fast and accurate, but it's running on bad fuel.  To extend the car scenario, it's like pumping diesel into your Z3.  (It's really not, but that's what it would be like for cars.  I think you get the idea.)


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## Clivey (Apr 7, 2005)

All of this just shows the real difficulty in deciding to stick/switch/add...
You 'stick' if you're nervous/can't be bothered/arsed to think about the long term cost etc.
You 'switch' if you're not afraid of the 'dark' / feel reasonably technically competent (not that a Mac really requires it - but you feel better about the leap if you are)
You 'add' if you've got the time/money/inclination.

I help control 25 Macs and 100 PCs with 20 odd MS Servers and 2 OS X Servers... and it's the that Macs make the money .

I like Macs 'cos:
I used them for 15 years (or is that 17?)
No registry
Nice GUI
No known viruses (so far)
Loadsa geezers writing funky/useful utils 'cos now they can... without a huge license to pay 
Forums galore - previous writer is nearly fully right - MS forums can be a little thin on the ground - but if you want to know about MS Exchange Servers go to slipstick.com ;-)
ThinkFree Office is $50

I don't like Macs 'cos:
Technical documentation falls fully 'tween two stools - it's either childish or geekish.
Hardware cost is 'high' (get what you pay for guys)
If I don't reboot my Macmini at least once a week - the HD makes me pay for it. (XP up now for over 6 weeks).
I "can't" move my copy of OS X Server to an updated box - because that breaks the Licence Agreement  

There's more I'm sure ;-)

And lastly I'll  rant this,
I've really tried to be an evangelist about Macs to 'all the little people' (people I know and small businesses) who seemingly have the inclination to consider the alternative... but it's all about price right? Trust me, if that's how you qualify a product then don't waste your time trying to convert them... Move on.

Good luck with whatever you buy - I hope it does what you need it to do... "Peace Man".


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## fryke (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh, PLEASE no. Not reviving old bashing threads. Closing it now.


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## fryke (Apr 7, 2005)

(I know, it's not really a bashing thread, but it's really, really old - and we don't want to slap those long-dead horses...)


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