# How does everyone feel about the Macless Macworld?



## rubaiyat (Jan 11, 2007)

Whilst I liked the new iPhone and to a lesser extent the AppleTV, neither will do anything for me for at least a year.

I'm left feeling very frustrated by the lack of any Mac announcements at this Macworld.

My son has $3000 burning in his pocket that he earned over the last year. He is just starting High School and desperately wants to buy a computer. So far he has followed my advice and is aiming for an iMac 24" but with the lack of news both he and I are left in limbo.

If he buys now he faces a hefty upgrade bill when Leopard comes out and iWorks '07 eventually appears. The iMacs are also overdue for an upgrade as well, so a purchase would be bad timing all round.

Don't know how long I can hold my son off and given the uncertainty it may not be a Mac.


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## Viro (Jan 12, 2007)

I think the wise thing to do is to wait until Macworld is over. Nevertheless, if it is important you get a Mac there is no harm in buying now, and setting aside $200 for the iWork and Leopard upgrade. New models of computers get released all the time on the PC side, and there is much less ruckus about it. I don't see why there should be so much fuss about Apple potentially upgrading their line of machines. 

There is no point in waiting for new hardware. Otherwise you will constantly be waiting and never purchase anything.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 12, 2007)

I feel for you, it is a bad position to be in. I've heard some experts talking about this on various podcasts/blogs and some have suggested Jobs didn't mention leopard/Mac hardware because it would have gotten lost amongst all the iPhone excitement. If leopard is going to be the Vista killer Apple is hoping, they would want to give it the attention it deserves. I think this theory makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't really help you in your current situation 

My instinct tells me they will have the "real" keynote in February, once iPhone buzz has died down a little. But my instinct is very often wrong. 

I agree with Viro though, there is always going to be a bigger, faster computer around the corner, and you could circle the block forever. 

btw, you would have to pay for iWork anyway. that isn't free with new Macs, only iLife.


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## lbj (Jan 12, 2007)

Wow!  I wish I had 3 grand burning a whole in my pocket when I was 13...

How about instilling at an early age the value of compounding interest and savings, thereby helping to insure a lifetime of fancy Macs?

I would recommend the Apple refurb page and a 20" Core 2 Duo for a little over a grand, then save the rest.  Chasing the latest and greatest is the surest way to churn through the cash.


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## Satcomer (Jan 12, 2007)

I believe when 10.5 comes out this spring Apple will put new Intel processors in all it's Macs. This is only a guess.


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## mdnky (Jan 12, 2007)

Thank The Cheese said:


> I've heard some experts talking about this on various podcasts/blogs and some have suggested Jobs didn't mention leopard/Mac hardware because it would have gotten lost amongst all the iPhone excitement.


I think it has more to do with their announced name change than anything else.  Going from Apple Computer, Inc. to just Apple, Inc.  Let the non-computer products reinforce the decision to do this.


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## Ferdinand (Jan 13, 2007)

mdnky said:


> I think it has more to do with their announced name change than anything else.  Going from Apple Computer, Inc. to just Apple, Inc.  Let the non-computer products reinforce the decision to do this.



I think it's sad that they changed the name from Apple Computer Inc. to just Apple Inc., since, if they would have done it properly, would have done it in 2001 with the announcement of the iPod. I mean, everybody knows it like that, and that has been the name since, the very beginning. But ok, time changes.

And I mean you gotta realize! A few years ago they had the G3 iBooks, the great new G4 iMac Flat screen, the iPod came out, you know, and now they sell mobiles, set-top-boxes and that stuff. Apple is turning more and more over to something what Sony is now. Not a computer manufacturer, but a Electronics Manufacturer. Soon they'll start with photo cameras like they tried some years ago, then they'll maybe go back to printers like the LaserWriters and everything. Many years ago they tried to get away from only computers, but it failed miserably. Then they went back to making exclusively computers, now they're giving it a shot again. Will it work? At the latest at the next MacWorld 2008 we will see...

But you also gotta have faith in Apple - I like 99 % of all their products were bestsellers (think iPod, iBook). I mean they know what they're doing.
You just gotta wait...


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## Timotheos (Jan 16, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> I think it's sad that they changed the name from Apple Computer Inc. to just Apple Inc., since, if they would have done it properly, would have done it in 2001 with the announcement of the iPod. I mean, everybody knows it like that, and that has been the name since, the very beginning. But ok, time changes.
> 
> And I mean you gotta realize! A few years ago they had the G3 iBooks, the great new G4 iMac Flat screen, the iPod came out, you know, and now they sell mobiles, set-top-boxes and that stuff. Apple is turning more and more over to something what Sony is now. Not a computer manufacturer, but a Electronics Manufacturer. Soon they'll start with photo cameras like they tried some years ago, then they'll maybe go back to printers like the LaserWriters and everything. Many years ago they tried to get away from only computers, but it failed miserably. Then they went back to making exclusively computers, now they're giving it a shot again. Will it work? At the latest at the next MacWorld 2008 we will see...
> 
> ...



I agree with you completely. Slowly i come across over all these none computer products apple released that never worked and now they are doing it all again (with jobs) and everything they released looks so great.

I have a tiny feeling (thats slowly growing) in the bottom of my stomach that tells me June is going to be a huge month for apple. To me it just feels like the last year or so apple have been building up to a climax of some sort. I bet my money that the whole mac computer line up will be significantly re-designed (appearance and hardware), iPhone will be out with a few surprises, Leopard will be amazing, more amazing than anything we have seen so far and it will change the way we use a computer.

June is the perfect time for apple to do something really amazing with their computers (although they are already pretty amazing compared to the competition). They will have a huge spot light on them from the iPhone release and i know that they know that if they pull off something that changed phones and computers forever one after the other, they will be sitting pretty.

Its an opportunity I cant see jobs missing to be honest.


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## fryke (Jan 17, 2007)

The fact that Apple did not release new Macs and Mac software at the keynote does not mean there aren't announcements very near. We all know Leopard should come out in "Spring '07", so that's probably _not_ going to be the first week of February, and no it _doesn't_ depend on when the first flowers bloom. 

Whether or not the _iMac_ is getting a quick update in the near future: Who knows. But I'd mainly think about the software here - and from what you write, it seems like you already do. Personally, I _would_ wait for Leopard and iLife and iWork versions to appear now.

The important thing to discern here is: Is it, right now, a definite *need* for a new computer or rather a *wish*. If it's more on the wish-side, the wait will be worth it.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 18, 2007)

My son is definitely going to do the right thing. He worked very hard for over a year and has invested his money so it is getting him a good return.

But despite all that maturity he is still just a kid and he had his heart set on getting the iMac by Easter at the latest. Now he just doesn't know where he stands. His school has gone back to Macs after fooling around with Dells for 3 years, so there maybe some possibility of getting a special deal along with the school, when he starts in February.

That "cheap" Leopard and iWorks is not cheap when you are paying hundreds of dollars just because the release date slips and you may have to pay for upgrades.

Apple I feel is sitting on its laurels again when it really can't afford to. People aren't necessarily going to reject Vista out of hand. In fact they probably will grumble a bit then get to like it, because they have no choice. Leopard was supposed to beat Vista out of the gate but is still not even visible.

The iMacs and Mac mini really are due for upgrades as well, particularly with better graphics and room for extra ports and drives in the 24" model. We planned on this being the time we could make definite plans, instead we just feel let down. 

I know this feeling very well having been with the Mac for 23 years now!


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## fryke (Jan 18, 2007)

Well: Leopard ain't finished. You don't want an unfinished beta version on your machine, really, when it's new. They've announced that it'd ship in Spring '07 some time ago. "Leopard was supposed to beat Vista out of the gate"...? Nope. Steve addressed the developers and called it "Vista 2.0". Nothing about beating release dates. I'm sorry, but you feel let down not by Apple, but by heightened expectations that come from _some_ source maybe - but not Apple.
That said, I _did_ expect them to release iWork and iLife '07 at MWSF.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm not going by Apple's recent statements. Leopard's release date has slipped steadily in the last couple of years. Apple covered this by going on the offensive re Vista's delays.

No I wouldn't enjoy a buggy Leopard, anymore than I enjoyed the bugs that were in Panther and those that remain in Tiger after 8 revisions. 

Shall we refer back to this conversation after Leopard is finally released and we get something like the Firewire bug in Panther? 

I hope not, but suspect something will still show up. It generally does and the delays don't prevent them, just delay the inevitable.

btw The use of seasons to indicate time is very sloppy. The whole world does not share the same seasons, nor season starts, and having to presume the frame of reference is an American one is to diminish the value of everyone else's perspectives.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 18, 2007)

apple only ever said that leopard would be released 'to compete with vista'.  that's what they said when they first even mentioned it.  vista's being released Feb 07 (well, jan 30th), Leopard, around march/april time.  rleasing it the same time would be a bit silly.  never market or release something at the same time as a direct competitor.  everybody loses in the confusion.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 18, 2007)

Apple drifted from a regular annual update of OSX (which Steve used to deride Microsoft) to saying Leopard might take 18 months to release, to now taking over 2 years.

If Apple's effort is as superior to Vista as claimed I would think a well timed near same time release of Leopard would steal Vista's show.

Personally I am still waiting on an OS to match the Classic's smooth fast and consistent GUI and the elimination of the bugs and gotchas that still riddle OSX.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 18, 2007)

i think the analogy i heard was that the first releases of OSX were 'picking the low-hanging fruit'.  as the areas needed for upgrade get less obvious, and changes become more fundamental as the 'fully modern OS' gets older, the scale of the updates increases.  Panther -> Tiger was 18 months, and a lot of the underlying core of the OS changed, without the top layer looking much different.  i also to remember people objecting to forking out $120 every 12 months for a point release.

i think if Leopard turns out to be the Vista killer they want it to be, the wait will be worth it.  also, i think Tiger was released too soon, but apple prefer to ship than wait.  i think you may be a very small minority of people displeased with the release schedule.

Apple should wait to see people deflated reaction to Vista, before sailing in and stealing all disappointed soon-to-be-ex microsoft customers in the hangover.


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## Natobasso (Jan 18, 2007)

You're never stuck; just get a computer you can easily upgrade like a G5 Tower.

I'm also, personally, getting very annoyed with upgrade fever that seems to permeate the apple realm. Though it is getting better since OS X updates are coming out every year and a half now instead of every six months. Wait till all the diehard razor's edge mac fanatics suffer though the bugs and THEN buy Leopard, maybe 6 months later, after the update/fix comes out.

This will sound old fashioned, but why not actually be satisfied for a few years with a machine that you've bought?! Obsolesence happens daily but it's like trying to 'Keep Up With the Joneses'--it's just not worth it. Unless you're chewing through hi res video files or running ten in-line plug-ins in Cakewalk while recording live, you're not going to see a huge speed increase over 12 months.


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## Mikuro (Jan 18, 2007)

rubaiyat said:


> Apple drifted from a regular annual update of OSX (which Steve used to deride Microsoft) to saying Leopard might take 18 months to release, to now taking over 2 years.


It's not 2 years just yet. IIRC, Tiger was released in late April '05. When Apple first previewed Leopard at WWDC, they said it would be released in "early" 2007 (were they as specific as "Q1 2007"?).

There was a lot of "reasonable" assumptions that it would be released in late '06, but I think it was all just speculation based on their previous release frequency.

That said, I am seriously bummed that there was no word at all on Leopard at Macworld. I wasn't expecting it to be released, but the thought that we wouldn't have any new info at all honestly hadn't even crossed my mind. No release date, no expanded preview...nothing. I'm a month or two away from raiding Cupertino with pithfork and torch in hand.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 18, 2007)

I am going on the anticipated schedule. It *will* be over 2 years by the time we see it.

As for picking the low hanging fruit, seems to me they can't quite figure out whether that fruit is a pear, peach or grapefruit. Definitely not Apple as I knew it.

I saw a fairly measured and level headed assessment of Vista on a recent site, where the writer said whilst Vista may not have quite the flash of OSX at least it has a more consistent look. None of OSX's various flavors of Aqua, brushed metal and other oddments.

Aesthetics aside I'd like Apple to take a long hard look at polishing the functional details in OSX. Productivity is where a truely great OS wins out. Even when Classic Mac OS lacked stability it shone in transparency, consistency and speed. 

I'm tired of pointing out on Apple's feedback site, the inconsistencies, failed GUI and bugs that never get eliminated.


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## eric2006 (Jan 18, 2007)

rubaiyat said:


> I saw a fairly measured and level headed assessment of Vista on a recent site, where the writer said whilst Vista may not have quite the flash of OSX at least it has a more consistent look. None of OSX's various flavors of Aqua, brushed metal and other oddments.



Woah - what? Have you _used_ Windows lately? Sure, the system may look good, but practically every application has it's own appearance and UI. In OS X, you get the same general feel for every application.

That aside, I think that they're just building pressure for the release - showing half-baked features in Leopard would just make everyone want it sooner, or turn people off about it. By keeping it secret (as Apple is so good at), they make it's release more dramatic and - ultimately - profitable.


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## Natobasso (Jan 19, 2007)

As has slowly occured with graphic design software (see InDesign vs. Quark) the incumbent platform can be ursurped by the upstart/underdog very quickly if it makes a serious misstep. 

Unfortunately, Apple's shooting itself in the foot in the service department (I see great comments all the time on this site that we are quicker and better than Apple's Customer Support!) and so it 5% share of the pc market could be much bigger by now.


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## fryke (Jan 19, 2007)

I find it strange how people are "fed up with" or "angry with" Apple for not keeping up with those people's expectations. To talk about "how Leopard slipped in recent years" is _hilarious_ - if you think about how its development was only announced about 7 months ago. rubaiyat said: "Leopard's release date has slipped steadily in the last couple of years." Do you _really_ believe the things you say there? 

Microsoft released Windows XP in 2003 (late, might I add, according to the original Whistler plans) and will release Vista in 2007 (very late, might I add, according to the original Longhorn plans), whereas Apple released 10.0 in 2001, 10.1 in 2001, 10.2 in 2002, 10.3 in 2003 and 10.4 in 2005. I'd say Apple's pretty predictable about those releases. The frequency was more quick at the beginning, because there was a _lot_ to be fixed. But from Jaguar onwards, Apple could breathe a little more. I'm personally glad that Apple takes the time it needs for Leopard.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 19, 2007)

Tiger was released 18 months after Panther.  it wasn't totally finished.  i;d prefer a finished product to buggy rubbish, with leopard.

why do you really want this so bad, rubayiat?  what is stopping you from doing what you need to do on Tiger, the best OS in the world?

Leopard probably won't be stable and thoroughly usable until about 10.5.3/4, which is easily going to be around august time, if not later.

buy a mac now.  Tiger is just so powerful and stable.  then in 9 months time, upgrade to Leopard.  or don't.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 20, 2007)

My son would like to start the year with a new computer of his own. I'd like to get him off mine.

If we buy now it is bleedin' obvious it will be superceded in short order. Which means having paid too much for it or got short changed on features which will be crucial eg a 2nd internal hard drive to make Time Machine usable or Blu-Ray to read new media.

Both iLife and iWork need updating, that will cost A$119 each if they are upgrades. Leopard will cost A$199. These alone make a difference of A$436 if bought too early. Similarly there will be a major difference in the iMac 24" price.

It is the uncertainty that is painful. We expected to know by now when and if the upgrades would be available. Now it could be soon, or much later. My experience of Apple is little delays drag out into big delays and sometimes ultimate total disappointment. They can also make a major switch and leave you in the lurch if you moved too soon.

I have bought Macs previously to instantly regret them. My G4 AGP I grew to hate after having spent a small fortune on it. I don't want to do that again.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 21, 2007)

this could be endless though.  iMacs won't ever have 2nd hard drive bays - that's what Mac Pro's are for; Time machine is designed for use with _external_ hard drives. 
blu-ray will be far too expensive for any realistic gain for at least a year from now, so i'd scratch that off the list for now.  
iLife 04 is still very much usable.  i don't want or need any of the features in the bloated 05/06 or even 07 releases.  hell, if i could ask for a new mac with iLife 04 on it i would, i really can't see why moaning about a point release is that much of a deal. and iWork doesn't get sold with new macs anyway.

basically, i think my point is, is that the computer you actually want, the one you are putting off buying now, won't be released for at least a year.  the computer that runs leopard perfectly, the one with blu-ray, et al.... it's just not viable in the next 2-3 months.  and in a years time, you will be facing the same dilemmas...


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## rubaiyat (Jan 21, 2007)

No it won't be endless because all we are trying to do is not buy on the wrong side of a product upgrade.

Much of the rest of what you say is unsubstantiated assertions of what will prove in the end to be wrong. To backdate your assertions, "iMacs won't ever ship with upgradeable Video cards nor 2nd monitor support, that's what Mac Pro's are for" and Time Machine will have a hard time backing up reliably to a drive that is not necessarily connected or turned on.

iLife does ship with new iMacs and the existing versions have flaws one can only hope will be fixed in the next upgrade. I never said iWork gets sold with new Macs, but my son would be buying it with his proposed iMac and simply doesn't want to then in short order have to pay all over again for the next version.

The computer my son is aiming to buy *is* the shipping iMac 24" with video card upgrade. But that computer will be cheaper and/or better speced in the due upgrade. 

To repeat myself, he is trying to avoid the extremely expensive upgrade to Leopard, iLife and iWorks because he will want those, and knowing Apple it will also freeze out certain features from slightly older Macs. Best not to have those just before a major change. 

Seems quite obvious to me, I don't know why you are struggling with this, unless when you shop with Apple you just open your wallet and ask Apple to help itself, because it is all going in a good cause. ie Steve Jobs' backdated options.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 21, 2007)

I previously mentioned my G4 AGP. Within 3 weeks of my purchase it was superceded by a model that had Gigabit ethernet, as well as usable keyboard and mouse. Its AGP slot was the slowest version ever and proved both expensive and difficult to upgrade to another card that would support 2 monitors.

I think it came with only the bare minimum RAM as well. To rub soap in the wounds it crashed straight out of the box and proceeded to progressively become more unstable until I couldn't boot off the hard drive. Took me over a year to establish beyond a shadow of a doubt its problems were due to instability from overheating.

I bought it because I had been waiting years for Apple to finally upgrade their line to something worthwhile. I am not going to repeat that mistake again.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 21, 2007)

i think that, while yes, there is always the 'what if...' factor, there is every possiblity that you could be waiting around for a long time.  there is always something cool on the horizon, and always has been.  at the moment, it's Leopard, and Blu-ray.  a year ago, it was the first Intel macs, a year before that, the 3ghz G5, and a G5 Powerbook, Tiger, a year before that etc.  

apple has never shown much trend between their software and hardware releases - i mean it took at least 7 months or so for the mac mini's (which were shipping with Tiger) to even get 512mb RAM as standard.  anyone who uses tiger knows that even 512mb is the bare minimum. i don't think that apple will release updates specifically for Leopard, only releases that needed doing anyway, regardless of leopard, it doesn't go hand in hand.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 21, 2007)

Well it all depends how big a distraction the iPhone has been. It obviously took away resources from Mac projects and was Steve's Lieberskind.

Unfortunately this is one of the consequences I predicted back when the Intel announcement was made. Progressively the Mac will fade as the star of Apple's business as the iPod takes over and Apple will assign less resources to it. 

Steve I am sure will have plenty more shocks in store for his loyal Mac users. Like God's testing of Job in the Bible, this Jobs is testing his power over his customers to see how far they can be afflicted before renouncing their devotion to the Mac.


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