# Golive - Dreamweaver. What's happening?



## johntamlin (Jun 22, 2006)

Have I been out of the country too long?
Can anyone tell me what is happening with Golive? Are Adobe withdrawing it and developing Dreamweaver?
I will look into learning to use Dreamweaver if that is the case.
Many thanks

JOhn


----------



## barhar (Jun 22, 2006)

'Have I been out of the country too long?' - ?

'Can anyone tell me what is happening with Golive?' - adobe drops golive.


----------



## johntamlin (Jun 22, 2006)

Thank you very much.
I can start work on Dreamweaver

JOhn


----------



## MacGizmo (Jun 22, 2006)

Yeah. Don't be fooled by all the he-said, she-said talk. Adobe is dropping GoLive and Freehand. The fact that they will "support" the apps means absolutely nothing more than they'll have a User Forum for them on their Web site.


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 22, 2006)

As they probably will with their SVG format as well in favor of Flash.


----------



## fryke (Jun 22, 2006)

I _think_ Adobe will merge GoLive and Acrobat somehow. They said GoLive will live on in some way(s), and I guess some of its functionality would serve Acrobat well. But as for what webdesign tool you'll be using: It's going to be Dreamweaver. I just hope that Dreamweaver gets a good old Adobe treatment. I don't like its current interface at all.


----------



## RacerX (Jun 22, 2006)

MacGizmo said:
			
		

> Yeah. Don't be fooled by all the he-said, she-said talk. Adobe is dropping GoLive and Freehand.


Oddly enough the thing that started all this was a French report about Freehand... and everyone _read_ GoLive into that report even though no one at Adobe had said anything about it.

People say they *know* that Adobe is dropping GoLive obviously don't _know_ Adobe very well.

Adobe originally bought FrameMaker, then they bought PageMaker and everyone said FrameMaker was going to be dropped... it wasn't.

When Adobe created InDesign everyone thought that was the end of both PageMaker and FrameMaker... but 7 years later both are still around today.

Freehand is a different story... this is the second time Adobe has had this product. It was originally acquired with Aldus, but Adobe sold it for antitrust issues.


What you end up seeing is either people rushing to be the first to report bad news... or other people's general insecurity about what apps they use. Like the Mac/Windows thing (and most religions too), some people won't be happy unless everyone uses the web tools they use... it validates their choice (because they don't trust that they are using the best tool for themselves).

Personally, if you are following the crowd as to what app to use rather than using what works *best for you*... it is surprising that you'd even be a Mac user, because that isn't what the crowd uses.

If you are a GoLive user... keep using GoLive. It isn't going to stop working if Adobe does stop producing it. Frankly, the time to worry about GoLive is when it stops doing what you need it to do and there isn't a newer version that does what you need.

Besides, there plenty of examples where you actually get burned by Adobe and their _upgrades_. Take Acrobat for example. Acrobat 4 actually was missing features from Acrobat Exchange 3. And Acrobat 5 (for Mac) was missing a bunch of features from Acrobat 4. And then the _"upgrade"_ to Acrobat 5 was Acrobat 6 Standard which was in fact a major _downgrade_ in overall abilities from Acrobat 5.

Basically, if you _upgraded_ from Acrobat Exchange 3 to Acrobat 4, then Acrobat 5 and finally to either Acrobat 6/7 Standard you paid Adobe about $300 for them to remove features from your applications.

For GoLive users, the only real way to _upgrade_ to any version of Dreamweaver would be for Adobe to bundle a copy of Premiere Elements with it (and there isn't a Mac version of Premiere Elements... which leaves Mac users with a downgrade anyways).


Use what works for you... just because Adobe stops making something (or worse, puts out a downgrade) doesn't make the software you currently have stop working.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 23, 2006)

Yes -- didn't Adobe come back and say that they were _not_ dropping GoLive, and that the reports of that were false?  Hmm... thought I read that somewhere.


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 23, 2006)

A-ha! I found the answer here:
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/05/31/adobe-to-drop-golive-freehand/

Adobe is dropping GoLive and Freehand for CS3...


----------



## RacerX (Jun 23, 2006)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> A-ha! I found the answer here:
> http://www.tuaw.com/2006/05/31/adobe...live-freehand/
> 
> Adobe is dropping GoLive and Freehand for CS3...


Then you found the wrong answer... as that was one of the erroneous reports.

I thought this article was an interesting report on how misinformation gets around.

I think we can drop the FUD here guys. There are no *real* reports of Adobe dropping GoLive and Freehand. And as I said before, the thing that started all this didn't even mention GoLive... only Freehand.


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 23, 2006)

Do you have a real report that disproves this speculation or is it just your opinion?

Check this too; an opinion (translation of sorts) as to what Adobe's merger PR means for the future:
http://daringfireball.net/2005/04/adobe_translation


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 23, 2006)

Here's adobe's Macromedia acquisition page:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/acquisition.html

Their official answer regarding product changes and the Macromedia purchase:

"When will Adobe provide a product roadmap?

Adobe has taken the first step in combining the two companies' product portfolios with the announcement of three new product bundles for design, web, and video software solutions. By combining the publishing strength of Adobe Creative Suite 2 and Adobe video solutions with the interactivity of Macromedia Flash Professional 8 and Macromedia Studio 8 software, we're enhancing customer capabilities to deliver compelling content and digital experiences &#8212; in print, on the web, in video, and across mobile devices.

Much of Adobe's long-term product strategy is evidenced in the new business unit structure now in place. As a matter of practice, we don't preannounce products or development schedules."

Okay so no one knows, one way or the other, which way Adobe will go on this except to say Dreamweaver will become Adobe Dreamweaver... (on the same page as the previous quote)


----------



## RacerX (Jun 23, 2006)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> Do you have a real report that disproves this speculation or is it just your opinion?


No opinion needed.. there is no *real* information about GoLive. Period. Your _"A-ha! I found the answer"_ article was based on at least fifth hand (most likely translated twice) bad information.

You can _speculate_ to your hearts content, but it falls into the realm of FUD.

Try reading the link (here it is again) before posting further.

Thank you.


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 23, 2006)

Racer

Before shutting down speculation, you might want to accept that you are doing just as much speculation in refuting the points made.

And yes, I read your link. Thanks much.

I agree no one knows, (what the heck is a FUD??) the answer. We are still free to speculate.


----------



## RacerX (Jun 23, 2006)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> I agree no one knows, (what the heck is a FUD??) the answer. We are still free to speculate.


FUD is the spread of *F*ear, *U*ncertainty, and *D*oubt. It is usually done by holding up false or erroneous reports to make people believe something that isn't true.

You pointed to an erroneous report and said _"Adobe is dropping GoLive and Freehand"_.

Speculate all you want, but you were trying to say Adobe *is* dropping GoLive when we don't actually know. And as I pointed out in previous posts in this thread, Adobe has kept similar product lines around long after promoting one to the front. InDesign is Adobe's premiere layout app... has been since 1998. And yet Adobe still sells PageMaker and FrameMaker today.

That is 8 years after the introduction of InDesign. For all we know (which is nothing) GoLive may still be around 8 years from now.



> Before shutting down speculation, you might want to accept that you are doing just as much speculation in refuting the points made.


I'm not speculating in the fact that there is no information... it is a fact that there is no information.

I haven't said GoLive is staying or going... just that the reports of it being dropped are false. Period.

Beyond that, I don't know or care at this point.

If I was going to speculate, a friend of mine at Adobe has assured me that there will be a universal version of GoLive... but would not comment on anything beyond that. Will GoLive become a _Dreamweaver Elements_ type product? I don't know... and it is too far into the future for me to really care.

But I do care about people keeping the fact straight. Speculation is one thing, putting forward erroneous information as fact is something else entirely.

You didn't say you _thought_ Adobe would drop GoLive, you said _Adobe *is* dropping GoLive_ as if you knew they were (and then pointed to _the answer_ you found).

And to put a stronger point on this (if it really needs one), other than my _speculation_ about a universal GoLive, I've done no speculating at all. Adobe could drop GoLive tomorrow and nothing I said (that *you* called speculation) would be wrong.

You were not speculating when you used *is* and I wasn't speculating when I said your linked report was erroneous.


Is that any clearer?


----------



## Natobasso (Jun 23, 2006)

RacerX said:
			
		

> FUD is the spread of *F*ear, *U*ncertainty, and *D*oubt.
> 
> Beyond that, I don't know or care at this point.



If you don't care then why are you so worked up about it? I conceded some points and agreed that the news I found may not be actual fact. However, you must also concede that it's okay to think about the issue.

Now relax and move on.


----------



## johntamlin (Jun 26, 2006)

Glad I sparked some interest there!
I asked the question because I have dabbled in web bits with Golive but not to any great degree. Having started to do a lot more web work, I thought I would look into the two before I took the plunge and really started to learn one.
Thanks again
John


----------



## fryke (Jun 26, 2006)

Well then _let's_ speculate. The comments, AFAIK did not spring out of nowhere, and although were not sanctified by Adobe, were originally _made_ by an Adobe employee. So let's - for the moment - assume that they were true.

What I've read (from the more orginial French pages without any translation issues, although I'm of course filtering right now...) is that Adobe will drop FreeHand and keep Illustrator as their vector graphics package. I'm pretty sure that Adobe _will_ want to not let go of _all_ things FreeHand was good at. So: If you fear about one specific feature of FreeHand to fall between stools in the next version of Illustrator, you might want to voice your concern to Adobe about it. If it's a more _general_ concern, you have the choice of still using the last FreeHand version available until you feel more confident in making the jump to Illustrator.

They _did_ mention GoLive being dropped in favour of Dreamweaver, and mentioned that GoLive (or parts of it) would live on in some other products. My guess is Acrobat and/or InDesign here. Both, of course, wouldn't make GoLive users as happy as seeing a new and better version of GoLive. But again: I'm sure Dreamweaver, once a full Adobe product, will get an interface treatment by Adobe. They won't just replace the splashscreen, you know... (And while this is _good_ news for Adobe-fans, it might be bad news for Macromedia-fans...)

Either way: Adobe has not officially announced any product drops just yet. Still: I'd say it's pretty clear that Adobe prefers Illustrator over FreeHand, and similarly clear that Dreamweaver has a larger user-base out there. And while we _can_ consider spreading such "news" as FUD, we also have to view the opposite ("It's FUD! Don't believe it!") behaviour as stubbornness which tries to ignore the writings on the wall.

I'm sure that by Spring 2007, when Adobe wants to ship Adobe CS 3, we'll have a much clearer picture, since both Adobe products in question (Illustrator and GoLive), are part of the current Premium version.


----------



## RacerX (Jun 26, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> And while we _can_ consider spreading such "news" as FUD, we also have to view the opposite ("It's FUD! Don't believe it!") behaviour as stubbornness which tries to ignore the writings on the wall.


Sounds like you are looking for an argument with that statement. And I'm more than happy to oblige.

The only stubbornness here is the fact that the "writing on the wall" hasn't always played out the way _Adobe outsiders_ have predicted.

I've followed Adobe long enough (and have a very clear memory of their actions in the past) to know that nothing is _done_ until it *is* done at Adobe.

One of the factors that people trying to be first to press with the obituaries of these products overlook (and this includes you) is that Adobe has no ties to Freehand at all. It is an outside product that can be discarded without (in Adobe's eyes) consequence. GoLive, on the other hand, has been modified dramatically since they bought GoLive Cyberstudio to work nicely with Photoshop, ImageReady and Illustrator. That work started in GoLive 5 and continued into the current version.

While I am sure that Dreamweaver is going to end up the premiere web design app at Adobe... the odds that the switch will take place in the next revision and that GoLive will be dropped before then are very minimal.



> They _did_ mention GoLive being dropped in favour of Dreamweaver, and mentioned that GoLive (or parts of it) would live on in some other products.


Adobe did say that Dreamweaver development superseded that of GoLive... but to date Adobe (neither company statement nor employee slip) has said that GoLive is scheduled to be _"dropped"_ from their product line.

If you have a direct link to where they __did__ say this, please post it.

I haven't ignored any of the factors here... but I sure can't say the same for you.


Further, the hallmark of a story that is FUD is that when it is proven inaccurate there is little or no coverage of a retraction. The big _news_ was that Adobe was dropping Freehand and GoLive... the fact that the reports were off (specially in the inclusion of GoLive) was not quite as news worthy.

Makes one wonder if the computer industry press is now learning journalism from Fox News.

Seems to me that both *you* and Natobasso need to learn that there is a major difference between _speculation_ and pronouncing of rumors as facts. Natobasso's use of *"is"* and your use of *"_did_"* have both of you stepping outside the range of speculation.

... I suggest you and Natobasso take the time to return to the safety of speculating and wait to pronounce as _fact_ things that have finally come to pass.


----------

