# Thinking of going from Cable to DSL



## Vard (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey everyone....

I have a couple of items I am hoping someone can shed some light on.

First, right now I have cable internet running at about 512K down for $50 US and change a month.  The DSL provider in this area is offering 1.5M down for $35 US a month...this really seems like a no brainer to me, but I was wondering if anyone had opinions about cable/dsl?

Here's my bigger concern.  Right now I have my cable come into the cable modem, then out to a switch (which is the one that doesn't do anything, right?--unlike a router--this crap confuses me) then into my computer.  I have internet sharing on and I think this is sending a DHCP address to my other mac back out through the switch in another room.  

Let me know if what I am saying is not right...but I think it is.

Anyway, would this setup change with DSL?  Right now I have an IP address that doesn't change, but I was told that my IP address would change every 12 hours with the DSL.  I don't mind right now as I am not hosting anything off of my computer.  But will this change mess up DHCP settings?  Will I need to get a router instead of using the switch?  Also, while I don't do a lot of restarting, I sometimes need to for various reasons.  With cable the startup sequence just moves on through establishing a network and everything is happy.  Does this work the same with DSL?

Any help would be great.  Thanks in advance and please set me straight if I have things confused about routers/switches and other network things.

Later,
Eddie


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## cfleck (Feb 4, 2004)

i'm kinda wowed by the dsl vs cable speeds.  here in the boston area my experience with dsl sucked and the cable was much faster.  more power to the dsl though!

the hardware setup is fine.  the only thing that will change is the cable modem.  with dsl you get a dsl modem and that will plug into your "switch" in the same fashion.  when i did the dsl thing i had to set up my router to handle the PPoE connection stuff.  You may want to check into that.  i'd go into more detail but i'm not real sure of them myself.

also your IP will change every 12 via DHCP.  by my knowledge, the switch you have is assigning ip addresses to your computers independently of the ip from the cable/dsl.  in other words, you wont have to make any changes there.  just know that hosting web sites/ftp/etc will be a trick because of it.  

i hope this helps.


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## Vard (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks for the reply...

 I get a modem for free if I go for this deal before the end of Feb.  About the DHCP.  I am pretty sure the switch isn't doing anything...the DHCP address is coming from the Mac--at least I think.  I think this because I need to turn on Internet sharing to get the other computer on the internet.  They are both plugged into the same switch.  If the switch were doing the DHCP addressing I don't think I would need to turn on internet sharing, would I?

 I am also going to try to get some kind of confirmation in my phone line actual speed....even though the DSL is offering 1.5M, I know that is theoretical.  If they can ensure at least 768 or more, I think I might go for it.

 Later,
 Eddie


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## quiksan (Feb 4, 2004)

cable vs dsl:
I went from cable to dsl recently (I work for a telco offering dsl, so it's cheap for me).  The cable was consistently about 1mbps up/down.  VERY NICE.  Then I've got the 1.5 mbps dsl now.  Problem is, dsl depends very heavily on how far from the CO (  central office ) your home is.  I'm on the 'outskirts' of that area, so I'm happy when I'm sticking at 700mbps.  so it really depends where you are.  cable for me, was consistently faster, tho the service was up and down, and it was also $52/month.  My dsl is a bit slower, up all the time, and about $30/month.

switch vs router:
I personally use a router, and it seems easier, as it's got its own setup and does its own thing.  but the way you're doing it works, so might as well stick with it.

hope my $.02 helps ya out a little.


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## cfleck (Feb 4, 2004)

you are right about the dhcp thing coming from the mac.  that should still work as you have it set up though.  i'm with quiksan than i have a router and it seems to make it all pretty easy for me.  good luck!


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## Vard (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks all for your help and advice.  I might look into a router....the only thing I had going for me on this with the wife was that it was faster and would save money.  If I tell her I gotta spend money, she might punch me.  But I'll look anyway.  I am sure it can be setup from my Mac to handles everything correctly...maybe not as easy as a router, but it's probably time I learn how to do something the hard way anyway.

 Thanks again,
 Eddie


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## Arden (Feb 6, 2004)

I'd say go with the DSL, especially if you live close to your local metropolitan area.  You'll get faster speeds, it sounds like, at a lower price.  And you should probably get a simple 2-port router, like our $26 Siemens; routers are built for distributing the Internet and all that's involved with it while switches merely split network traffic.  And you'll save money in the long run.  (Check www.pricewatch.com for good prices.)


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## donkey (Feb 6, 2004)

how will the router save money in the long run?


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## lurk (Feb 6, 2004)

Just for reference my DSL Modem includes four ethernet ports so you would not need a router if you get one like mine.


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## cholland (Feb 7, 2004)

Cable and DSL have both become very attractive for an average user. In some cases you have to check if the cable is one way or two way, which means great download speed but you have to still use a phone line and slow upload. Most cable carriers are upgrading this.

Check the service records of the companies. Traditionally my experiece with Cable Co is they are usually are lazy with poor response and outages may be more frequent than DSL. If cable goes out during during a storm the phone lines and DSL are better managed and probably will work through a storm.

When both are working the speeds are good for an average user. although I had cable and found it much faster- my new area cable company is nothing like Media one so I was forced to DSL which when youv'e tasted the speed you always want it back. Based it on price and service.


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## bobw (Feb 7, 2004)

Hey Vard

Haven't heard of any cable company that has only down and must use a phone line for up. DSL can go out just as cable. I have Comcast, 2 1/2 years now, it's been out three times in that period. Twice were less than 5 minutes, once for almost an hour. If lines go down in a storm, phone lines can also and DSL will be out. Comcast upped their service to 3Mbps

Get a Router, it will save you any headaches in using the connection with more than one machine.

Amazon.com offers the Netgear MR814 802.11b Wireless 4-port Cable/DSL Router for $46.84. A $20 mail-in rebate yields a net price of $26.84 and shipping is free. It's the lowest total price we know to be available. Rebate ends February 29.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006HYKM/dealnewscom/104-3521165-8562343

I just bought this router. Simple setup and works well, and if you ever decide to go wireless with a machine, you'll already have the base station.


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## cholland (Feb 7, 2004)

You guys are blessed with good prices for both DSL and Cable. I jealous! Make sure that there not just incentives that end after 3 months. Right now the pricing in my area is exactly the same in NJ. I had to go with DSL at the start because the cable provider was quoting download speeds only. The uploads were through the phone. Now it just seems a hassle to switch, even through my cable provider has since upgraded and bumped better download speed than my current DSL.

Has anyone experienced using a modem to a dish? Just interest because my options here are weak.


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## Arden (Feb 8, 2004)

Router saves you money because you pay a little more now to pay less later, letting you share the faster DSL connection instead of sticking with cable.

I don't think I've ever had the DSL go out.  Actually, there are times I can't connect, so I guess it does happen... but it's not that often, really.


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## mdnky (Feb 9, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> Router saves you money because you pay a little more now to pay less later, letting you share the faster DSL connection instead of sticking with cable.



You feeling alright Arden?  That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Back to the original question, the router is a nice thing to have if you're gonna setup a home network.  Otherwise, it's not required.  If all you're gonna do is connect one machine, it won't save you money.  If you connect more than one, it won't save you money.  Unless it saves you from buying alot of Advil (for headaches), but heck...a bottle of that is only what...$5?

Most DSL modems I've seen are already setup with a router feature, requiring you to only need a hub for the connection of additional computers.

DSL usually is "set" speed and dedicated to you, where cable is "shared" with other users.  As long as your lines are in good condition, DSL is usually a better way to go.  ON AVERAGE, DSL has a better UL/DL ratio than cable, not to mention it's constant.  

I know many a person with cable service who see massive fluctuations in speed depending on the time of day.  They very rarely see thei peak numbers at all, usually staying around 3/4 of peak performance at off-times and they're lucky to get 1/4 at prime times.  This is on 1500k advertised down, and a sad 128k up!  

DSL is only limited by the distance from the TELCO, but generally within the area they define as the coverage area you get 80-120% of the speed they say.  

We're around 1.5 miles by line from the TELCO here, and see 750down and 350up on average from a 768(d)/384(u) ADSL line.  The fire dept. I worked at is next door to the same TELCO station, so we were may 100 feet of line away,  We saw 900 to 1200K down and around 500 up from the same 758/384 line.  We also pay 15$ less a month for the DSL over a cable provider, and for $18 more a month can get a 1500k/768k line.


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## speedfreak (Feb 9, 2004)

> Has anyone experienced using a modem to a dish? Just interest because my options here are weak.



The Direcway service through the dish is OK as a last resort.  The D/L speeds are incredible. Regularly over 1500k.  However upload is terrible.  Latency is terrible.  Takes at least a second befor you get the first bit back after a request.  Secure websites are a nightmare.  If you can get cable and dsl stick with that.


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## bobw (Feb 10, 2004)

*Router saves you money because you pay a little more now to pay less later, letting you share the faster DSL connection instead of sticking with cable.*

Where I live in PA, Cable is three times  as fast as DSL, 3Mbps. Comcast doubled it's speed in all it's locations and it's extremely dependable. Cost is $42.00 a month.
Cable is shared, but my speed seems to always be the same. My IP hasn't changed in months.

A router just makes it easier to share a connection between multiple machines, and very easy to setup.


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## Arden (Feb 13, 2004)

Come on, people!  It's simple mathematics.  To get the same functionality with $35/month DSL as he has with his $50/month cable, which is to share the connection over two computers, Vard would pay oh, maybe $30 for a router to split the connection.  He then saves $15 every month by using the DSL instead of the cable, so in 2 months he's saved the cost of the router.  Over the long run, he'll save much more than this.

And that's how spending a little now can save you money in the long run without losing any of your current functionality.


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## donkey (Feb 13, 2004)

except he is sharing his net connection now without a router.  he need not get a router to share!


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## bobw (Feb 13, 2004)

It is simple math, he won't get the same results for less money. Cable is much faster than DSL. He'll get less than what he's paying for if you compare speeds. $15.00 a month more for more than double the speed.


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## Vard (Feb 13, 2004)

I didn't see that everyone was still posting to this.  Bobw:  Silly big city dude.  Comcast isn't available in my neck of woods.  I wish it were for what you're getting.  Here in Podunk we only have GMP.  I called them the other day and asked WTF regarding whether they were going to do anything about the Verizon package, or just wait for all their customers to leave.

 They told me that if I waited just 4 to 5 weeks (the Verizon deal ends at the end of Feb...not looking good so far) they would be upping everyone capped at 512 to 768...OK, what about the price...Well, they're going to see if they can do anything about that, but if they up my speed that should be more than enough for me to stick around.  Yeah right.  I can get 3 x's my current speed for less right now.  

 I still haven't completely decided...but I think I am going to go with it.  A guy that I work with just got his hooked up last night and he was very impressed with how it went.  Plus, it's got a a month trial...if I cancel during that time I'm only out the $12.95 to send all the crap back...I can deal with that.

 Thanks to all for posting your thoughts.  Bobw, I wish I had 3Mb, but I don't and the company I currently have is only making a half-assed attempt to keep their customers.  I think I am moving on.

 Later,
 Eddie


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## bobw (Feb 13, 2004)

Eddie

My girlfriends daughter and husband (formerly from Berwick) now live in Kutxtown, but a new section in God's country, and they can't get cable yet and are in the same boat you're in.


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## mdnky (Feb 13, 2004)

Cable isn't always faster than DSL.  Just that the DSL companies need to use the extra speed they have and provide it to the customers.  Some places see as high as 8-10 mps off DSL, something cable could only dream of.  (BTW, you don't even want to know what that costs. <G>)

DSL's big plus is it's dedicated bandwidth, not shared among a sector like cable is.


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## speedfreak (Feb 13, 2004)

I pay 50/month for 1.5Mbps/768kbps DSL.  Wow 8-10 Mbps DSL?? Don't they call that T1?  My DSL is already in the low end of T1 range except for the upload.


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## mdnky (Feb 14, 2004)

No, a T1 is only 1.5...

I think our 768/384 DSL here is around $35/month including internet access, another $15 or so more a month if we want the 'hyperspeed' 1.5/768 one.  Cable is $55 a month for 1.5/128 (but more like actual speeds of 600-800/80).

---------
T-1 - 1.544 megabits per second (24 DS0 lines) Ave. cost $400.-$950./mo. 
T-3 - 43.232 megabits per second (28 T1s) Ave. cost $8,000.-$18,000./mo. 
OC-3 - 155 megabits per second (100 T1s) Ave. cost $25,000.-$49,000./mo. 
OC-12 - 622 megabits per second (4 OC3s) no estimated price available 
OC-48 - 2.5 gigabits per seconds (4 OC12s) no estimated price available 
OC-192 - 9.6 gigabits per second (4 OC48s) no estimated price available
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Heck with DSL or cable....OC192 anyone?  <G>


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## chevy (Feb 14, 2004)

I have 2 Mb/s on Cable here, for $60/month


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## bobw (Feb 14, 2004)

3.1 MP's  - $42.00 a month - Cable


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## andychrist (Feb 14, 2004)

Ooh, ooh, I like this game!

~3 Mbps -  $0/mo:


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## mdnky (Feb 18, 2004)

Wheeeeee!  They just announced our DSL is being upgraded.  3m down and 768k up, still under $40/month.  

SWEET!


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## michaelsanford (Feb 19, 2004)

Tryng to determine if cable or DSL is faster is impossible without some information. DSL loses speed the farther away your house is from the nearest switching station, and cable gets slower with more people on your local loop.

If you are next door to a switching station, get DSL, but if you are in a small town that has just had cable installed, go with cable. Of course this assumes the line quality in both cases is sufficient not to affect signal strength.

I remember here a few years ago when we first got cable it was /fast/ as all get out, now since over half the island has signed up, cable internet speeds suck compared with DSL, since there are lots of switching stations in the metropolitan area.

As for router vs switch, as someone mentioned, if you only connect one computer get nothing, just plug that computer into the WAN modem. Alternatively, you could set up your connected computer as an AirPort base station and stick an AirPort card in both machines and have a little wireless LAN, since your connected computer will share the internet connection.

As far as switch vs router, I don't really think they're comprarable from what I understand. A switch, by itself, is only a hub that routes connections through a MAC-address mapping table so the ethernet packet doesn't have to go to every single node on the LAN, but in essence it's still just a hub. A router almost always incorporates a switching hub, but it also shares (or more specifically connects to) another WAN connection, and usually incorporates, among other things, a DHCP server to give IP addresses to your connected computers. I'm not sure how you could connect a switch directly to the internet (at least with my ISP)...


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## Vard (Feb 20, 2004)

Hey everyone...just thought I would come back in on this one.

 I ordered the DSL...the hardware will be here today or tomorrow and the service will be running on Tuesday. I am going out to get a 4-port router with DHCP this weekend. No, I am not going to get a wireless router even though I can probably find one for just a bit more...unless I can find one for under $50. I don't really need wireless at this time as I have no protable, but the company I work for is thinking about getting me a portable (not a mac  ) with wireless since we have it here at work...but other than that, I don't think I need the wireless.

 I ran a couple of tests on my current line at dslreports.com to see what I am getting now. Over a couple of days of testing, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I average. When I get the DSL going I'll do the same and then assess from there. Since the first month is free, and I can cancel whenever I want, I will do this testing before I cancel my cable. I'll be able to pick the best with no extra cost to me at all, which is cool.

 OK, that's it. When it is up and running I'll post the test results. Thanks to everyone for their imput. It was all very helpful.

   Talk to you later,
   Eddie


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## Vard (Feb 23, 2004)

Let's have an update shall we...

 My hardware got here on Thursday, but my wife forgot to tell me. No big deal, the service wasn't ready yet. So on Friday night I got an email saying my service was ready, which was a surprise since they had until 6:00PM this Tuesday to actually hook it up.

 I started to get everything set up, but then stoped short as it was late and I wanted to get the router in the mix from the get go. 

 So Saturday morning rolls around and I figured, what the heck, the family was sleeping and I had some time. So I hooked everything up and finished the install. Sadly, I kept getting disconnected.

 I called Verizon Tech Support and talked to Mike in Texas for 1h6mins early on Saturday. He was super helpful and extrememly forth coming with information. So much so that he saved me $50 right then and there. While we weren't having any luck getting it connected (he could tell it was a prob with my account not authorizing on their end) I mentioned that I was heading out to get a router for DHCP addressing. He mentioned that they sell a specific router that they support...it was different that the one I was thinking about. But then, as an aside, he mentioned that the modem itself has a function to act as a DHCP router, but that this feature is turned off normally. 

 Well hey, I thought, I already have a 5-port switch...so I asked him if that would work for me for what I wanted to do. He said sure it would and asked if I had the time to walk through the setup with him. In the end the modem is acting as the DHCP addressing device so I don't have to use my Mac and run into problems with other people logging in and out and cutting other people on the netowrk off.

 But the DSL still would not come up. He figured it had something to do with the service not activating my account because it was so much earlier than they had planned on. He asked if I would be patient and try again in 24 hours...no prob after the amount of help he had already offered.

 So Sunday I got up, unhooked th cable modem, hooked up the DSL and was blessed with downloads over 3 x's faster and uploads at least 2 x's faster. DSL is so much better (so far) in my neck of the woods than cable. And on top of everything it's cheaper month to month.

 It's great. Right now I have my system on, and my other system in my brothers apt across the hall (usually running OS 9.2) on. We (my wife, daughter and I) live above a coffee shop that my wife and her mother own--and my wife's and mines portrait and design studio is in the back. They sometimes use this space as an office. I have a Umax J700 running OS 9.1 in there as of this past Friday. Tonight I am going to bring that system up stairs and make sure it is just as easy to get it hooked up. If I have luck I will put it back in the studio and run about 200 feet of Cat5 back to them (anyone know how far you can take Cat5 before you loose signal?). They want to use this system for their books, but I have denied this request until I can get it networked for the sole reason that they need to have a backup of some kind. My other system (the one in my bros apt) will become the community backup system.

 If this all goes as well I might run a line down to my father-in-laws antique shop and try to get his Win98 box (can't win them all) hooked in. 

 Anyway, I just wanted to post this as a way of saying thanks to everyone for helping me with this. In the end, if I get everyone hooked in, I'll post about that experience as well.

  Thanks again to everyone,
  Eddie

 And yes, tonight I will be calling Verizon Tech Support, asking for Mike's supervisor, and letting him know that at least one member of his staff understands the term customer service. He was a real pro.


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## Vard (Mar 2, 2004)

Back again with an update and a small request for a tutorial...

 The Umax works like a dream on the network, even if the display is maxed at 832X600 (or something goofy like that). It's not on right now because after testing I sent it back downstairs and just need to get my 200' of Cat5 and run some line. But I think it's going to work out nicely. I even figured out how to setup a little AppleTalk network between OS 9 and OS X so I would be able to move things back and forth...worked perfectly. Yeah, it was very easy actually, but I still needed to pat myself on the back!

 OK...so here's where I need help once more. Way back in the day--like 2 weeks ago--when I had cable, I enjoyed a static IP that allowed me to use a barebones SSH program from my W2K pc at work to log into the Mac at home and mess around. This was a great feature if I left my IM running--couldn't log in at work if it was up at home. I could just log in an kill the process and be up and running here at work. More useful however, I used it when I was slow at work to teach myself some very minor C programming. I used emacs and the built in GCC compiler over the SSH to work on tutorials. It rocked.

 So I would like to continue this stuff now that I am on DSL. But I have (at least I was told I have) a revolving IP now. I downloaded a little program that will display my router's IP in the menu bar--I am pretty sure I need this first to be able to do anything, right? Under system prefs I can easily see what address the router is giving my box. So my question is, how do I use these to SSH my Mac at home from work. Is this only accomplished through a VPN now that I have a router and don't have direct access to my Mac, or can I get access to my Mac some other way?

  Just thought I would through this one at y'all since everyone was suprememly helpful in getting me ready for DSL.  

  Thanks in advance for anything you can suggest.

  Eddie


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## macmikey (Mar 11, 2004)

michaelsanford said:
			
		

> SNIP...
> As far as switch vs router, I don't really think they're comprarable from what I understand. A switch, by itself, is only a hub that routes connections through a MAC-address mapping table so the ethernet packet doesn't have to go to every single node on the LAN, but in essence it's still just a hub. A router almost always incorporates a switching hub, but it also shares (or more specifically connects to) another WAN connection, and usually incorporates, among other things, a DHCP server to give IP addresses to your connected computers. I'm not sure how you could connect a switch directly to the internet (at least with my ISP)...



Finally someone said it right. You need a router to share the Cable modem or DSL modem on a network. Some newer modems now include a switch (as explained above) so a router is inside the modema s well as the switch.

Having more than one switch and connecting computers to switches to computers may create a loop. Not a good thing. Your setup should be cable/dsl modem - router w/switch - to each computer or to a switch if more computers are using connection than ports available on router. Wireless can use wireless router, or add an access point to router and connect that way. 

Keep in mind any Internet sharing done via computer, whether wired or wireless means the computer stays on 24/7 to allow other computer access. Your call on that one, but may explain why connection does not work all the time on second machine.

As an example, my setup is cable modem (Comcast 3Mbps) to a Linksys wireless router w/4port switch to 2 switches;one in living room, one in back bedroom. Each switch connects several computers and networked laserwriters. All share Internet through the Router including wireless Powerbook. Router only has 2 of the 4 ports used for the switches.

hope this helps,
Mike


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