# Panther 7B21 (newer Panther builds)



## fryke (Jul 26, 2003)

According to MacRumors.com, developers have access to Panther 7B21. Any further info from someone willing to share the knowledge?

MacRumors.com mentions only 'extensive bugfixes'.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

I'm trying to get the images.  I am authorized to have them, but I can't get them to download after I log in.  Anyone else having this problem?  Is it that an over abundance of people are hitting that site now?


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

Ok, on IE (blah) it says that my access has been denied!  Whats up with that?!  I was told at WWDC that I'd be included in all seeding!


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## fryke (Jul 26, 2003)

Hmm... I've always had success with IE (I know, I know), while other browsers didn't work. If your access isn't _really_ denied (meaning you actually _don't_ have access), it could _be_ the problem that too many people are connected. Apple's system is a bit strange in that respect (and always quite slow, at least the web part, not the download itself).

However: If you _do_ have a login that _should_ work for the site, contact Apple. Quite simple.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 26, 2003)

Yeah, I filled out a bug report and sent in a letter to ADC.  I want my disk images!


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## jw_randall (Jul 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Go3iverson _
> *I'm trying to get the images.  I am authorized to have them, but I can't get them to download after I log in.  Anyone else having this problem?  Is it that an over abundance of people are hitting that site now? *



Access denied CAN mean server is very busy. That happened to me too. I just chose another server (ASIA) and got through. Downloads for me are very slow (1k - 2k). I use StarBand two-way satellite. I usually get 60k to 120k downloads. iGetter says that Disk 1 and Disk 2 will take "more than a day".


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

yeah, it's just slow.  I tried Europe etc last night and can download it in anywhere from 50-300 hours.


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## Arden (Jul 27, 2003)

I believe you have to have paid membership in ADC to use Panther...


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## Go3iverson (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I have a paid student membership, which doesn't usually include seeding, but I was assured at WWDC by Apple reps that we would this year for the first time.


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

This build is on 3 CDs. Wow. Granted CD 3 is only 100 MB of stuff or so, but still. 

Its interesting to think how far the Mac OS has come, from booting/installing from a floppy to needing 3 CDs.


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## fryke (Jul 28, 2003)

rhale1: It's been the same with Jaguar already. "System", "More Apps", "Developer", the last one being the smallest CD. And while it's true that the original Macintosh System could be booted from a floppy (well, must be possible, the thing only _had_ one floppy drive!), I don't think you can see Mac OS X as an evolution of the original Macintosh OS code wise. And Mac OS 9 can still be put on a ... Zip Disk.


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

When I say 3 CDs, I'm not talking about the Developer Tools. There is a Mac OS X Install CD 1, 2, and 3, the last one only being 90 MB or so.

I realize that Mac OS X is a new thing (I'm not new to the Mac anyway), it is just exciting at how much systems in general have evolved over time, space needed, installation media, etc.

On a different note, the Installer for Mac OS X has gotten some changes:
1) Panther-esque 'X" background
2) The Side Panel (left side, showing the steps) font now looks different (Myriad prehaps, or Gill Sans)
3) Installer tells what discs are needed right off the bat
4) Customization panel UI has been changed some

Also, a lot of bugs have been fixed, and some minor, but noticable UI tweaks have been done (I've seen it in System Prefs: the rows in "View All" alternate (light gray, dark gray, etc.; the lock button now animates and is in color; some prefPanes more refined, like the Accounts Limitations tab actually having content now.)


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

When an application crashes it also asks if you would like to send a bug report to Apple. Nice touch.


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## bobw (Jul 28, 2003)

Mac OS X 10.3 7B21 Seeded

As for whats changed, its best summed-up by Apples seed note:

This release reflects extensive engineering efforts since the WWDC, with issued [sic] addressed in almost every component of the OS. The extent of the bug fixes limits our ability to communicate each of them here. Please test your applications against this build to verify previously reported bugs, and also refer to the on-line bug reporter for some status changes.


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## moosepiss (Jul 28, 2003)

I've got the WWDC version of Panther installed and working great with all my apps.  

Any idea if 7B21 will upgrade the previous?  If not, can anyone offer some 'best practices' for moving from one OS version to another (preferably, without having to re-install/re-configure everything)?

Thanks
MP


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

7B21 upgraded my previous Panther install just fine.


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## RPS (Jul 28, 2003)

Well if you'd like to do a clean install, the only things you need to back up is you Preferences folder, PreferencePanes, Applications folder, and your Desktop.


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## RPS (Jul 28, 2003)

So what does Disc 3 install?


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

Disc 3 installs X11 User, Additional Fonts, and Additional Speech Voices. Only 90 MB of stuff or so.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 28, 2003)

rhale1, your from Evanston?  I just moved to Buffalo Grove!  Nice!

Anyone on here that has the DMG's and a fast connection feel like shooting them over to me?  I got 430mb into disk 1 today *finally* and then it was time to go on home!  D'oh!


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## rhale1 (Jul 28, 2003)

Actually I just moved away (sad, I loved it there) to Charleston, WV; just haven't had the time to change my bio.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 28, 2003)

Yeah, I guess the neighborhood went down the tubes when I moved in!    lol

What's really upsetting is, I got a fast feed on Disk 2, got another 200MB and Safari crashed!  I'm not meant to download this, am I?  lol


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## Jason (Jul 28, 2003)

hmmm im having troubles installing onto my ibook, tried the upgrade, it doesnt get past the login window, tried archive and install and still no go... trying a cleanish one now (archive and install without user backup)


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## Ricky (Jul 28, 2003)

Installed.

It seems quite a bit more responsive.  Haven't run across any bugs as of yet, but if I do I'll let you know.  Quite a few nice graphics and effects, like when you open a program from the Finder the icon briefly flashes on screen, to replace the old zoom effect.


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## Ricky (Jul 28, 2003)

You can archive files/folders through the File menu in the Finder.  It does it *immediately* as a .zip file.


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## Ricky (Jul 28, 2003)

DVD Player gets a new icon...  This is a great release...  Also, hiding the toolbar in the Finder turns off the brushed metal.


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## Jason (Jul 28, 2003)

update on g4 didnt work either... knew i shouldnt have messed with this...


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## Jason (Jul 28, 2003)

verbose mode gave me nothing, went through all the messages, then switches to a blue screen... and nothing... how ironic... a blue screen of death


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## Jason (Jul 28, 2003)

repair permissions, and repair disk did nothing, still gets stuck on "getting local users"


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## Ricky (Jul 28, 2003)

Jeez, had this happened sooner, Jason, I would have had some major second thoughts about upgrading


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## Jason (Jul 28, 2003)

i have no clue whats wrong  i have too much stuff to reinstall and setup again

PITA


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

I got stuck on Getting Local Users also when I upgraded my 10.2.6 to the WWDC Build. I had to erase my drive and clean install Panther to get any operation out of my iMac.


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## Jason (Jul 29, 2003)

...


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## Decado (Jul 29, 2003)

Help your starving sisters and brothers! anybody with the latest Panther-build please post som screen-shots of the refinements to the gui (finder, exposé the nes application startup-thing etc).

Thanks!


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## fryke (Jul 29, 2003)

All network stuff doesn't work for me in 7B21 (upgraded 7A202). Now clean installing on my Firewire HD. Screens will follow. Finder prefs are all new. Labels can be given names...


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

Not to beat Fryke to it or anything, but I actually had some laying about on my Desktop (not sure why, but they're good).


Finder General Preferencess
Finder Labels Preferences
Finder Sidebar Preferences
Finder Advanced Preferences
A little note that the "Show Hidden File" preference seems to do nothing at all on my system.

Any requests? I'm home all day !


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## Decado (Jul 29, 2003)

Thanks!
How about a photo of how Finder looks (when it is aqua).
And a photo of System Preferences (and account limitations) and how exposé looks when you have hidden the windows.


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

Here ya go. Its difficult to get a screen shot of the Icon Zoom effect, so I didn't include one. Just imagine the icon semi-transparent and zooming to 200-300% its size as it fades  out. It's a really nice effect.

Exposé
Finder Aqua
System Preferences
User Accounts - Simple Finder
User Accounts = Some Limitations


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## Go3iverson (Jul 29, 2003)

Dang it....Now I have Disk 2 and 3 but not 1!!!

Is this puppy safe to upgrade to from 10.3 from WWDC?


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Go3iverson _
> *Is this puppy safe to upgrade to from 10.3 from WWDC? *



Mine upgraded just fine. As some have had problems, your milage may vary, and always have a backup incase you need to reformat and put a clean system on.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 29, 2003)

But I don't feel like backing everything up!     lol


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## Decado (Jul 29, 2003)

Thank you!
but for the exposé effect i was more thinking of how it looked when you exposéd all windows to hide. i have read somewhere that it eould be some effect that let you know there where hidden windows. any sign of this?


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

Ah, yes. When you Exposé to the desktop, a border (dark, transparent, much like when Exposé F9 or F10 is used and small portion of all the windows are shown. I'll get a pic up later.


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## vrapan (Jul 29, 2003)

> i have no clue whats wrong  i have too much stuff to reinstall and setup again





> Is this puppy safe to upgrade to from 10.3 from WWDC?



Guys or anyone that hasn't installed yet do your selves a favour. BACKUP YOUR DATA AND INSTALL IT ON A CLEAN HD. This is the official way to do it and in way too many systems upgrading from WWDC or 10.2.6 won't work. Not archive and install erase and install. The only way Pather 7B21 will work - 7 friends of mine tried to install it on top of 10.2.6 or Panther DP all of them stuck on "Getting local users" and nothing will go past it not even if you repari permissions. The only solution was to go back to DP or 10.2 back up and do a clean install.... 

And for those who are running it as we speak is the Address Book crashing anytime you open it? It does to me.....


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## Ricky (Jul 29, 2003)

I archived and installed from the WWDC preview.  I'm still here.


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## cybergoober (Jul 29, 2003)

Same here. Upgraded. Went without a hitch.


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

Address Book crash? Haven't heard of it, or seen it yet.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 29, 2003)

My Panther update won't work....


Though that could be because I'm *STILL* missing disk 1!  lol


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## Jason (Jul 29, 2003)

i have to do a clean archive and install (no user saving) so i can get access to my files... then i will do a clean install after backing up some stuff

*sigh*

IMHO the finder windows going from aqua to metal dependant on that button is stupid, i liked it the way it was before where the window stays the same but the top bar of buttons is hidden, its not consistant with apple's design theory


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## RPS (Jul 29, 2003)

Uuh... Safari is at v1.1!!!


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

Yes it is, but I've found it slightly less stable than 1.0, but if Dave Hyatt's work has ben added, I'm all for it!!


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## Jason (Jul 29, 2003)

i havent noticed any differences between 1.1 and 1.0


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## rhale1 (Jul 29, 2003)

According to Mr. Hyatt, its mostly behind the scenes stuff, tiny little things I probably never even needed. Progress is good anyway on "the Mac's greatest browser".


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## drustar (Jul 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *i havent noticed any differences between 1.1 and 1.0  *



Does wmode transparency work on safari now?  I had this  problem before with Safari and I'm wondering if they fixed or not.


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## Ricky (Jul 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by drustar _
> *Does wmode transparency work on safari now?  I had this  problem before with Safari and I'm wondering if they fixed or not. *


Nope, sorry...


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## WeeZer51402 (Jul 29, 2003)

has anybody else had safari crash when loading a java applet?


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## Go3iverson (Jul 29, 2003)

On the new segments...

Anyone else here getting error -37, or if it asks for a password, it declines it?


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## fryke (Jul 29, 2003)

don't know exactly what you mean, go3iverson, so i guess: nope...


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## StarBuck (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm running 7B21 on a 12" PWBK the Address book Quits all the time if I use Target Disk mode and boot another Mac like an eMac the Address book works.

Compared to the earlier build the mail application is more Reliable.

Some nice tweaks to the GUI but the most important thing for me is the machine is more responsive.

iSync now hotsyncs with Exchange servers to bring down your Address book not the Shared Address book.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

YES!

iSync with Exchange is HUGE!  This is something I've been dying for here since I started this job.  Does it work well?  I'm up to disk segment 13 out of 18 on Disk 1...oddly, I have disks 2 and 3 completed already.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

Quick question for those of you downloading the segments...

Do I have to do anything in particular to reconnect them all into 1 disk image as Disk 1?


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## jeb1138 (Jul 30, 2003)

Final Cut Pro 4 works correctly now!  Nice.  Now I can finally I can throw all caution to the wind and make a beta OS my primary system for work as well as play.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

Ok, I have two new coasters trying to burn the segmented images...anyone have any insight into how I'm supposed to do this properly?

thanks!


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## rhale1 (Jul 30, 2003)

Segmented images? That's a new one for me. I always get full dmgs. My guess is you need to lock the segments and mount them (so that the mounted image is locked), then make a full, single image of that. I don't know if it will be bootable then, but it's worth a shot.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

I kinda tried that.  I took all the images and dragged them onto a 10.2.6 machine  to use disk copy.  Dragged the whole folder on and made a new image.  Then I burned that to CD.  No dice.  Now I'm trying to burn just the UserCD1.dmg, which *MAY* be linked, somehow, to the rest of the smaller images?  

HELP!!


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## rhale1 (Jul 30, 2003)

On the 10.2.6 machine, did you try selecting the first segment file as the burn file/source? That might load the rest as it goes. Other than that, I'm out of ideas.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

Got it!

If you need to reconnect the DMGParts, grab disk copy off of a 10.2 machine, or use a 10.2 machine and instruct Disk Copy to burn ONLY the .DMG file.  If you add any of the DMGPart, it will not work.  the .DMG must have a link to the other files with it.  

They should have instructions.


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

LOL

great minds think a like, huh?

I tried that out in the other room and posted before reloading the forum.  I thought that may be the case, but since Panther broke my Disk Copy, it's obnoxious.  I sent in a note to Apple Dev. to suggest they put instructions on the site or such.


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## rhale1 (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm surprised they didn't. Maybe they take us for more clever than we are when it comes to burning little DiskImage segments .


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## Go3iverson (Jul 30, 2003)

If anything, they made it too easy!

I mean, it's a lot easier to burn one small file that configures your whole CD than to join them and drag them all on by hand or create a new image out of them.


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## Jason (Jul 30, 2003)

i did a clean install. so far so good, until now... i cant get past the registration screen when booting indesign....

damn this beta testing stuff


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## rhale1 (Jul 30, 2003)

From what I've read, InDesign doesn't work on Panther.


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## Jason (Jul 30, 2003)

*uninstalls panther*


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## RPS (Jul 31, 2003)

Everytime I restart/login, iChat's preferences are deleted.  I get the "Welcome to iChat AV!" message..


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## JAC (Jul 31, 2003)

I had it installed over WWDC release. It LOOKS GREAT. I loved the finder enhancements. The ability to make a disk image right from disk utility is sweet. Mail was a VAST improvement with ability to delete both junk and trashed mail right from the button at the bottom of the mailboxes window. 
It was more buggy for me however. BUT only in Dreamweaver (which it totally did not like, And oddly it wouldn't let me minimise an external firewire disk finder window. Main HD finder window was fine. 
It is ultimately going to be incredible. SOON. You can't beat those zooming icons either.


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## cybergoober (Jul 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RPS _
> *Everytime I restart/login, iChat's preferences are deleted.  I get the "Welcome to iChat AV!" message.. *



Yeah, I copied my com.apple.iChat.AIM.plist and com.apple.iChat.plist files from my Jag partition and that seemed to fix it.


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## Decado (Aug 1, 2003)

What happens when you click the button in the upper right corner of a finder-window (so toolbar and sidebar hides) AND THEN choose "show toolbar" from the "view" menu. does it turn to metal while it expands?


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## vrapan (Aug 1, 2003)

Anyone knows where the SystemIcons.rsrc has gone or where the system icons are? thanks a lot


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## fryke (Aug 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Decado _
> *What happens when you click the button in the upper right corner of a finder-window (so toolbar and sidebar hides) AND THEN choose "show toolbar" from the "view" menu. does it turn to metal while it expands? *



Yep. You either have metal _with_ features or Aqua without any.


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## Decado (Aug 1, 2003)

Doh!


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## Jason (Aug 1, 2003)

i still think its the stupidest thing... consistency anyone?


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## cybergoober (Aug 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by vrapan _
> *Anyone knows where the SystemIcons.rsrc has gone or where the system icons are? thanks a lot *



/System/Library/CoreServices/SystemIcons.bundle/Contents/Resources


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## mirv (Aug 1, 2003)

I ran into the no-networking problem in 7B21 after the first reboot. It seems that 7B21 installs a symbolic link pointing to itself in place of the SystemConfiguration prefs file. To work around this (without re-installing your system!), do the following:

sudo rm /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist

sudo touch /Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist

Hope this is helpful.

--Mark


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## Go3iverson (Aug 1, 2003)

Anyone getting an "Unable to open Active Directory Node" when you click on configure?

I didn't get this before.


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## Go3iverson (Aug 1, 2003)

Nevermind, if you don't click on "Apply" first now, it gives you that error.


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## Captain Code (Aug 2, 2003)

I think I have the biggest bug of all! At least one that makes the whole thing unusable for me.

I just got a new vid card(Geforce2 MX) for my G4 400.  It's a PC one, but in 10.2.6 and 9.2.2(after installing drivers) it works without any problems.

I did an upgrade of my WWDC build so that might be the problem. 

So when I start up Panther, it's at 1024x768x60 and it's quite flickery.  I can't change the refresh rate in the system preferences because when I select a new res/refresh the screen goes black.  It says it might go black for 15 seconds and then after that to press the return key.  But when I do that, it still stays black.  

The cd tray eject button doesn't work on my keyboard at this point so I'm pretty sure Panther has crashed.

I'm going to try a clean install of Panther, and hopfully it's not my new vid card.


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## DJHyp3rion (Aug 4, 2003)

Does anyone know exactly what 'extra apps' are contained on disc 2? I am thinking about installing Panther with just disc 1 but want to make sure what I'm going to miss from disc 2...Thanks.


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## iscaro (Aug 4, 2003)

Well, install only CD1... then, if you miss something... just add it... why not?

It is so nice the way it is...


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## DJHyp3rion (Aug 4, 2003)

...problem is, I don't have Disc 2


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## rhale1 (Aug 4, 2003)

Mostly things like iTunes, iMovie, etc.

I can't be sure, but I think disk 2 is needed for the full use of OS X Panther, as Jaguar's apps will either run, crash, or not run at all.


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## Go3iverson (Aug 4, 2003)

Anyone have any luck having this kitty authenticate to a W2K server with Active Directory?


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## DJHyp3rion (Aug 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cybergoober _
> *Yeah, I copied my com.apple.iChat.AIM.plist and com.apple.iChat.plist files from my Jag partition and that seemed to fix it. *



Ohh man...I had to do an erase and install to get 7B21 working. And I can't copy the plist file from my Jag partition because there is none. Is there a workaround? Maybe looking in the prefs file for something to toggle off or something?


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## Decado (Aug 6, 2003)

Just a couple of Panther try-outs:
1) Does the app-open-effect take place when you open an application from the dock?

2) If you set the icon size to max for a folder and then open a document from that folder is there still an app-open-effect? or is it always just zooming in to max, so if you already are on max there will be no FX?

Thanks!


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## DJHyp3rion (Aug 6, 2003)

1) No.
2) If you zoom, yes, I think. It just keeps getting bigger.

PS, I'm back on Jag now. I heard all this crap about Panther and iPods, and I'm getting one this weekend, so I figure "Why risk it?"
I'll reinstall Panther once I've got everything on my iPod. hehe


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## eph115 (Aug 11, 2003)

Hey everybody,

Has anyone used Panther on a G4/400?  I have a stock Sawtooth/400, Rage128Pro, 700-odd meg RAM..  Will Panther run decently on this rig, you think?


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## Go3iverson (Aug 11, 2003)

Yes.  I've tried it on a 500MHz iMac in a test lab and it ran surprisingly well.


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## fryke (Aug 12, 2003)

you won't get any QuartzExtreme effects, just like in Jaguar, and might want to replace the graphics card. you should be able to get a geForce 2 MX (or 4 MX) at a decent price somewhere, and it'll dramatically improve the look & feel of OS X, especially Panther, on that machine.


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## Ripcord (Aug 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Go3iverson _
> *Anyone have any luck having this kitty authenticate to a W2K server with Active Directory? *



Panther won't support Active Directory client processes (MS CLDAP, MD5 Kerb, etc), so it can't join as an AD-native member.  It will, however, be able to be added as an NT4-style member (which is also something you can do for Win2k systems, as well).  You won't be able to do the nifty (some think it's nifty) management, GPO, and other things, but the system will join the domain and be able to authenticate, etc.

Rip


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