# Apple Store is down



## bbloke (Mar 3, 2009)

The UK and US Apple Stores are currently down.  New Mac minis and iMacs on the way, perhaps?


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2009)

Yes, yes, and new Mac Pros as well!

Now where did I put that pesky credit card?  Oh, there it is...


----------



## Giaguara (Mar 3, 2009)

Mmmm the new Mac Pro sounds so sweet.


----------



## Rhisiart (Mar 3, 2009)

Mac mini, $599/£499:
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
120GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

Mac mini, $799/£640:
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB memory
320GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

+ iLife included in both models


----------



## nixgeek (Mar 3, 2009)

The Mac Pro is using Nehalem-based Xeons, so that's definitely of interest.  Other than that, it's just the same-ol' Core 2 Duo on the iMac as far as I can tell.

I do like that the Mac mini did get upgraded.  It was WAY overdo for it.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2009)

The MacBooks also have been upgraded (new SSD options), as well as the MacBook Pro (new SSD options).

Also of interest is that the keyboards included with the iMacs are wired versions of the keyboard that lacks a numeric keypad.  The Mac Pro's default keyboard is a wired keyboard WITH a numeric keypad.

Both keypad-less and keypad-full wired keyboards are offered as options on most Apple computers now.

Before anyone goes crying to mommy about this, be aware that you can "upgrade" your wired, numeric keypad-less keyboard to a wired keyboard WITH a numeric keypad for the low, low price of $0.00.

Still no wireLESS keyboard WITH a numeric keypad, though, for those who were wondering.


----------



## nixgeek (Mar 3, 2009)

ElDiabloConCaca said:


> The MacBooks also have been upgraded (new SSD options), as well as the MacBook Pro (new SSD options).
> 
> Also of interest is that the keyboards included with the iMacs are wired versions of the keyboard that lacks a numeric keypad.  The Mac Pro's default keyboard is a wired keyboard WITH a numeric keypad.
> 
> ...



Bummer on that last one....


----------



## icemanjc (Mar 3, 2009)

I was hoping they would go to a better design with the keys.


----------



## chevy (Mar 3, 2009)

I was expecting it for the mouse...


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2009)

chevy said:


> I was expecting it for the mouse...



Now, come come... how stupid would a mouse with a numeric keypad be?

Sheesh...


----------



## chevy (Mar 3, 2009)

ElDiabloConCaca said:


> Now, come come... how stupid would a mouse with a numeric keypad be?
> 
> Sheesh...



It cannot be worse than the mighty mouse... the idea was great but the realization is not perfect. Only the round mouse was worse.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 3, 2009)

chevy said:


> It cannot be worse than the mighty mouse... the idea was great but the realization is not perfect. Only the round mouse was worse.



Well, and therein lies the problem with design as a whole.  One man's trash is another's treasure.

I quite like the Mighty Mouse design -- it's comfortable for me, easy to use, feature-packed, and the scroll ball works quite well in my opinion.  You, on the other hand, do not like it.  So which one of us is "right?"

I'll tell you who's right: I am.  

...and in your head, _you're_ right, and I'm wrong.  So now we're back at square one.  It's all opinion, and Apple can't please everyone -- but they do please the vast majority, which is what they should be doing.  Pleasing only the minority isn't profitable.


----------



## chevy (Mar 3, 2009)

I like the functionality of the mighty mouse. But I had lots of problems with the mini-ball until I found how to clean it with a simple sheet of paper. A good design doesn't let you think that you product is dead.

And the white style is just too old now that the Apple product line is aluminium and glass.


----------



## slrman (Mar 3, 2009)

icemanjc said:


> I was hoping they would go to a better design with the keys.



There's something wrong with the keys?  I think the KB on my 20" iMac 2.66GHz is the best KB I have ever had.  Although I _have_ been using a PC for over 6 years and am finally back to the Mac.  Maybe I am missing something?


----------



## icemanjc (Mar 3, 2009)

slrman said:


> There's something wrong with the keys?  I think the KB on my 20" iMac 2.66GHz is the best KB I have ever had.  Although I _have_ been using a PC for over 6 years and am finally back to the Mac.  Maybe I am missing something?



My problem is that they use the laptop keyboard keys. Which for me tend to brake off easily. That is why I preferred the old keyboard.


----------



## Mikuro (Mar 3, 2009)

ElDiabloConCaca said:


> I quite like the Mighty Mouse design -- it's comfortable for me, easy to use, feature-packed, and the scroll ball works quite well in my opinion.  You, on the other hand, do not like it.  So which one of us is "right?"
> 
> I'll tell you who's right: I am.



But do you really _prefer_ the "virtual" second button? Maybe you really do like it, in which case you're exactly right, it's just opinion. But so far the best I've heard anyone say about it is that it's tolerable. "It's not that big a deal" or "you get used to it eventually". I've never heard anyone say "it's better than a normal button".

As for the scroll ball, I rather like it -- it's a bit small, but the precision is _nice_. I can understand someone not liking it, but it certainly has its advantages.


As for the actual updates, I'm very happy with the Mini update. FireWire 800 surprised me. And apparently it supports two monitors now (haven't confirmed that, just heard it elsewhere). Thumbs-up for me.

Edit: Yeah, the Mini does support multiple monitors according the the tech specs.


----------



## fryke (Mar 3, 2009)

The move to the small keyboard (sans numpad) as _standard_ will be authorized resellers' hell, I'm sorry to say. While the small keyboard looks good in photos (makes the iMacs seem larger, heh...), my guess is that over 90% of people will prefer the numpad-version. Which means that people will want to change from the default which means CTOs. CTOs don't have stock protection (I'm sure Apple's own stores don't have that problem), which means that the _next_ time Apple changes the lineup, we'll either sit on old machines, lose money or we'll just have to buy standard machines and replace the mini-keyboards with bigger ones, which means we'll end up with tons of small keyboards that we'd need to sell those with Mac minis. But because Apple doesn't give resellers much headroom on the keyboards, we won't be able to lower the price for those much, which means that Mac mini customers will opt for the default keyboard as well. Darn you, Apple.

That said: We'll sell a lot of those inexpensive 24" iMacs now.


----------



## Tommo (Mar 4, 2009)

Not good from my point of view. Great for the average home user, but 24" iMacs still retail well over the £1000 mark here in the UK. Trouble for me is although it has slightly higher specifications the entry level Mac Pro I was considering is now going to cost me an additional £200.

While not disputing the quality of the hardware you would think in such economically troubled times Apple like all companies would be trying to keep end user costs down rather than pushing them up, and before you mention it I know the exchange rate hasn't helped, but we have historically paid more here in the UK than US users.

It is hard for me to persuade our corporation that a switch to Macs would be good when they see them cost 50-80% more than a PC when funding is tight.


----------



## Rhisiart (Mar 4, 2009)

Tommo's point about marketing more expensive products during a recession is valid. The basic Mac Mini has risen in cost in the UK by 25%. 

However, the UK and Ireland have been rip-off states for many years. We pay  more for consumables than most of our European neighbours.

Comparison with US prices for the new Mac Mini suggests that UK and Irish purchasers are paying 15% more than their US counterparts for the same product.


----------



## fryke (Mar 4, 2009)

Hasn't that always been the case for _any_ countries outside the USA? Seems to me it's always been 10-20% above the price US Americans have to pay. The 599 USD Mac mini should be 705 CHF right now, but it costs 799 CHF. That's about 13% as well.

(They probably just go about it like this: "It'd be 704.50 CHF. But we can't make it 699 CHF or we'll lose more than 5 CHF per machine. 799 is a nice number.")


----------



## slrman (Mar 4, 2009)

icemanjc said:


> My problem is that they use the laptop keyboard keys. Which for me tend to brake off easily. That is why I preferred the old keyboard.



Break off?  I had not heard of that.  Mine seem very solid and secure.  They only protrude about 3/16th inch above the aluminum plate so I'm not sure what it would take to break one.  Over all, it feels like the most quality keyboard I have ever used.  Of course, that involves a lot more than the keys.  But I will keep a close eye on how they feel thanks to your input.

I guess having to use a lot of cheap PC stuff for 6 years may have made me more appreciative of a little quality.


----------



## slrman (Mar 4, 2009)

fryke said:


> Hasn't that always been the case for _any_ countries outside the USA? Seems to me it's always been 10-20% above the price US Americans have to pay. The 599 USD Mac mini should be 705 CHF right now, but it costs 799 CHF. That's about 13% as well.



I hear what you're saying but you don't know how bad it can be.  The import duty on _all_ products here in Brazil is 60%.  That's right, sixty percent!

When I bought this iMac in January 2009, I expected to pay a lot more for it, but in reality it was only about $150 more than the USA price.  I suspect that was because, anticipating the release of the new models, Apple was dumping a lot of them at discounted prices to other countries.  Also, Apple has not been a force in Brazil until the last year or so.  It might be that they are making an effort to penetrate the market here.

Either way, I am delighted that I have the iMac and all of my friends and relatives are so impressed!


----------



## nixgeek (Mar 4, 2009)

I poo-pooed the new Apple keyboard compared to my white Apple keyboard that came with my iMac G5...until i tried it.  It's not too bad, and it does feel like it's built quite well.  But I do have to say that with the new keyboard I miss the tactile feel of the keyboard that this new one replaced.  I could live with it, though, but I'm not sure how long I could live without the numeric keypad since I do use it.


----------



## Tommo (Mar 4, 2009)

Like Nixgeek I was initially not too enamored of the new keyboards until I got one. now I would not go back to the old style now. Mind you the fact I have a similar keyboard on my Macbook might have prepared me for the change.

I would not be keen on losing the numeric keypad which is primarily why i use a wired keyboard over a wireless one.


----------



## slrman (Mar 4, 2009)

I understand about the keypad.  I don't use mine much, but when I do, I really like it.  I guess if there were other compensations, I could get along without it.  But I have no idea what those compensations could be.  Porn through your fingertips?


----------



## chevy (Mar 4, 2009)

fryke said:


> The move to the small keyboard (sans numpad) as _standard_ will be authorized resellers' hell, I'm sorry to say. While the small keyboard looks good in photos (makes the iMacs seem larger, heh...), my guess is that over 90% of people will prefer the numpad-version. Which means that people will want to change from the default which means CTOs. CTOs don't have stock protection (I'm sure Apple's own stores don't have that problem), which means that the _next_ time Apple changes the lineup, we'll either sit on old machines, lose money or we'll just have to buy standard machines and replace the mini-keyboards with bigger ones, which means we'll end up with tons of small keyboards that we'd need to sell those with Mac minis. But because Apple doesn't give resellers much headroom on the keyboards, we won't be able to lower the price for those much, which means that Mac mini customers will opt for the default keyboard as well. Darn you, Apple.
> 
> That said: We'll sell a lot of those inexpensive 24" iMacs now.



A second hand or recycled small keyboard will be a perfect companion for the Mac mini (sold without keyboard).


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 4, 2009)

Rhisiart said:


> Tommo's point about marketing more expensive products during a recession is valid. The basic Mac Mini has risen in cost in the UK by 25%.


More than likely, the price increases have to do with the conversion rate between the dollar and whatever other currency is used in your country.  The dollar has, surprisingly, been going up in value.  This is reflected with increased prices overseas because of the conversion rate.  I doubt it has anything to do with the recession... the recession and the value of the dollar may be related, but the recession and the price of the iMac in foreign countries have little in common (although they may be indirectly related, I don't think that "marketing costs" figure into the increased cost of computers).



			
				fryke said:
			
		

> The move to the small keyboard (sans numpad) as _standard_ will be authorized resellers' hell, I'm sorry to say. While the small keyboard looks good in photos (makes the iMacs seem larger, heh...), my guess is that over 90% of people will prefer the numpad-version. Which means that people will want to change from the default which means CTOs. CTOs don't have stock protection (I'm sure Apple's own stores don't have that problem), which means that the _next_ time Apple changes the lineup, we'll either sit on old machines, lose money or we'll just have to buy standard machines and replace the mini-keyboards with bigger ones, which means we'll end up with tons of small keyboards that we'd need to sell those with Mac minis. But because Apple doesn't give resellers much headroom on the keyboards, we won't be able to lower the price for those much, which means that Mac mini customers will opt for the default keyboard as well. Darn you, Apple.


I don't see it this way.  Consumers will use what Apple gives them, and it would be silly to think that Apple is somehow "forcing" the keyboard on us or is doing it with the intention of being covert or underhanded.

I think Apple realizes that most of their customers and user base are not "power users" -- while I like to _think_ I'm in the majority, in fact, I am not.  And neither are you, fryke.  Apple doesn't market to us -- it would be silly of them to do so... like flushing money down a toilet.  You don't market to the minority, you market to the majority.  And the majority in this case are not business users nor power users (the two segments of the population that want/need a numeric keypad).

Power users use the Mac Pro.  The Mac Pro ships with a keyboard with a numeric keypad, standard.

Apple's main population segment target uses iMacs.  The iMac ships with a keyboard that lacks a numeric keypad (although you can "upgrade" for $0.00).

The fact of the matter is that most of Apple's target population segment won't miss the keypad.  They didn't use it all that much in the first place.  Go over to any non-power-user's house and take a look at their beige-colored, PC keyboard.  See how much dirt and grime is built up on the alpha keys?  See how the numeric keypad has a noticeable _lack_ of said dirt and grime?

Apple dropped the keypad because most people don't use it.  Apple's target population segment don't own huge desks, because they're not power users and don't have expansive home offices.  They have the $30 Wal-Mart computer cart with a keyboard/mouse tray that is a foot and a half wide.  By dropping the keypad, that affords the average home user more desktop real estate, making the computing experience more comfortable (in addition to making the new iMac look even bigger in comparison).

I wouldn't buy the keyboard sans keypad, but then again, I'm a power user who would most definitely CTO from the online Apple store.  Most of the people frequenting Apple stores where there is no CTO are either first-time buyers or non-power-users.  They won't even know the difference, and even if someone walked up to them and was all, "Hey, dumbass!  You just bought a computer that has a keyboard that LACKS A NUMERIC KEYPAD!" they wouldn't care one way or the other.

Kind of like if some gamer walked up to me and said, "Hey, dumbass!  You just bought a computer that has a case that LACKS NEON LIGHTING!" I wouldn't care one way or the other (and probably be glad for the lack of, too).


----------



## Mikuro (Mar 4, 2009)

I really don't see the connection between "power users" and the number pad. Normal people don't use numbers? I find that hard to believe. I'll admit it's not a necessity, but is it really a considerable inconvenience? *shrug*

With the wireless keyboard it made sense, since the idea was that you might move it around, put it in your lap, etc. It's nice that it was extra small. But on a wired keyboard it seems strange.


----------



## nixgeek (Mar 4, 2009)

Back to the Future?...


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 4, 2009)

Whoa... does that mean the power button has returned to the keyboard?  Is that what I'm seeing on the right-hand side of the keyboard there?


----------



## icemanjc (Mar 4, 2009)

Thats the power button for the keyboard itself.
Actually, I really liked the power button and I wish they still had it.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 4, 2009)

Ah, that makes sense.  The only wireless keyboard I own is the one that came with my MacBook, so...   It's wireless in the sense that it's the keyboard for my laptop, which just happens to be "wireless" in one or more senses.  

I guess since Apple computers nowadays don't really need to be turned on or off (typically, they come from the factory with settings to sleep them after inactivity) and since the "sleep" mode of a computer has been radically redefined over the last 10 years (used to be only hard drives spun down and the monitor blanked, now individual components sleep independently of each other, etc.), there really isn't a need for a power button on the keyboard -- control-option-command-eject does the same thing, basically (which I just found out by accident).


----------



## fryke (Mar 5, 2009)

ElDiabloConCaca: I wasn't talking about myself here. I actually enjoy my wireless keyboard with my iMac, and have been using notebook-keyboards as my primary input-method for more than ten years.
But I'm working at an Apple Authorised Reseller, and while we've heard _many_ complaints about the fact that there's no full wireless keyboard, we've never *ONCE* heard that somebody wanted a smaller wired option. And that isn't from highend users, it's from average users who want to use their Macs at home mostly. (Of course a couple of graphics designers and architects etc. as well.)

The number pad is important as soon as you have to input a lot of numbers, but it's also a requirement for many games - or at least a big convenience boost.


----------



## slrman (Mar 5, 2009)

fryke, you make a good point about some games using the keypad.  I had forgotten that I have assigned keys there myself.  I like using 4-5-6 for Slow down-Normal-Speed up functions.  Very convenient and fast.  

Now, I have to go reprogram my KB!


----------

