# Linux and Mac.



## Moptop (Jan 14, 2006)

Hey, I have a question to ask. Im running on a Mac Imac G5.

How/What would I do so that I can boot my mac in both mac osx and Linux? I've seen and read about it before but have no idea whatsoever how to do it. 

Thanks.


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## symphonix (Jan 14, 2006)

Download or pick up a version of Linux for PowerPC (I'm assuming you don't have an Intel Mac yet as they've only been shipping for a few days). In the setup instructions, there should be details on how to dual boot between Mac OS X and Linux.

I should point out that installing Linux as a separate operating system may be a bit redundant, and tends to be useful (to Mac users at least) only if you want to learn about operating systems and programming. All the Linux software runs natively in Mac OS X so there is no need to install Linux unless you want to learn about working with the OS.


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## Cam (Jan 14, 2006)

I installed the X11 "system" on my mac (included with OS X system disks) so I can use open source programs that need a graphic interface, like the image editing GIMP. Symphonix, is this what you are saying "runs natively"? I still had to install this system and then figure out how to download the compiled versions of the various software programs of interest (I am using Fink commander to help with that process). 

But like moptop I would like to know more about Linux (which we all have heard about) - how does this differ from the X11? Sort of a high level overview of these various programs.

I have found more than one version of Linux that is on a self contained CD, so you never have to install any software on your hard disk at all. Not that the X11 system and the GNU software installs are terribly hard, they are more than the average Mac user normally wants to do. These CD versions of Linux come with many of the open software programs installed. Knoppix is the name of one, I forgot the other.

I find I need the Unix/Linux/X11 for dummies introduction.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jan 14, 2006)

symphonix said:
			
		

> All the Linux software runs natively in Mac OS X so there is no need to install Linux unless you want to learn about working with the OS.


That is so very untrue.

Linux software does NOT run natively in Mac OS X, unless you compile it from source.  You cannot download a binary application for any Linux flavor and expect it to run at all under OS X.  UNIX != Linux ("UNIX does not equal Linux") and they are not binary compatible systems.

If you meant that most of the software for Linux is also available for Mac OS X, that would be a more true statement, but compiled Linux software will not run under Mac OS X.



			
				Cam said:
			
		

> But like moptop I would like to know more about Linux (which we all have heard about) - how does this differ from the X11? Sort of a high level overview of these various programs.


Linux and X11 are not related whatsoever (at least, they can't be compared -- it's like saying, "How do a Lexus car and happiness differ?").  Linux is an entire operating system.  X11 is a windowing system that runs under an operating system.  X11 is available on a number of platforms, including Linux, Mac OS X, and some UNIX flavors.


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## Cam (Jan 14, 2006)

The Fink system I am using allows you to download "pre-compiled" binaries, but I did have to install the X11 system. As I understand what I am doing, I am not compiling the code locally (something I wanted to avoid until I am more experienced). The Fink system is downloading any needed extra files. I read about this in MacAddict.


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## duff (Jan 15, 2006)

Moptop said:
			
		

> Hey, I have a question to ask. Im running on a Mac Imac G5.
> 
> How/What would I do so that I can boot my mac in both mac osx and Linux? I've seen and read about it before but have no idea whatsoever how to do it.
> 
> Thanks.



Try Ubuntu Linux, after installing it, read up on GRUB loader to dual-boot Mac OS X with Linux. But before you install, use Disk Utility to partition the disk, with primary and swap.


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## nixgeek (Jan 15, 2006)

Also check out PenguinPPC.org for anything having to do with Linux/ppc.


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## Moptop (Jan 17, 2006)

Ok, thanks, ill try that all.


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## Moptop (Jan 17, 2006)

duff said:
			
		

> read up on GRUB loader to dual-boot Mac OS X with Linux. But before you install, use Disk Utility to partition the disk, with primary and swap.



Huh?


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## duff (Jan 18, 2006)

MacOS X Disk Utility to partition your harddisk, one is your MacOS X partition, one is a Linux Primary partition and the last is for the Linux swap.

Then install Linux, after installing, edit the GRUB bootloader so you can dual boot your MacOS X and Linux.


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## Moptop (Jan 18, 2006)

I know that but what is the "GRUB bootloader" and how/what do I do to it?


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## Viro (Jan 18, 2006)

You do not use GRUB on PowerPC! Instead, it's something called Yaboot. Nevertheless, you needn't worry yourself about it for if you use a good and user friendly Linux distribution, it should handle all the boot loader details for you. Then when you're more familiar with Linux, you can start messing with the boot loader .


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## duff (Jan 18, 2006)

Viro said:
			
		

> You do not use GRUB on PowerPC! Instead, it's something called Yaboot. Nevertheless, you needn't worry yourself about it for if you use a good and user friendly Linux distribution, it should handle all the boot loader details for you. Then when you're more familiar with Linux, you can start messing with the boot loader .



Oh yeah,i forgot, it's yaboot, my bad... it's installed by default in ubuntu linux. Except it only adds the Linux to boot but not Mac OS X, as far as i can recall i only add two or three lines in yaboot configuration file to boot MacOS X and Linux as options.


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## scacinto (Jan 21, 2006)

Unfortunately, my experience has been that PPC linux has been a waste of time.  It's really a bastard child, with most efforts being directed at X86 development and, recently, more to OSX than to PPC Linux.  Many applications are kind of broken, support is minimal (I've tried four flavors!) and nothing that I really wanted to use worked.  These were mostly music programs, cecilia, Csound, vspace, pvc, etc., but I don't imagine anything else is much different.  Plus, with the new Mactels, I don't imagine support is going to get better...

Invest your time learning the ins and outs of your Darwin underpinnings, and be greatful that your mac "just works".  (Out of the above, now, only Vspace has not been compiled for osx!)

Problems I've had have been

-audio never settled or worked well - alsa was wierd and everything else was broken

-trackpad on the powerbook I tried it on never worked... always had to use a mouse.

-as listed above, many programs that worked on X86 hardware with Linux did not on my PPC machine with PPC Linux

... the list goes on, but why bother?

If you REALLY want the Linux experience (Which I'm almost sure you don't if you knew how many hours it would take you just to get the machine up and running) put together a computer yourself.  You could get a great machine going for under $1000 and run it legit...


-S


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## nixgeek (Jan 21, 2006)

Weird that you had all these issues. 

While it's definitely been a learning experience, I can't say that it's been that bad.  I do agree that PPC Linux has been left in the cold software-wise.  I DO miss Flash and Java (haven't tried IBM's Java plug-in for PPC) and the lack of hardware acceleration for video cards in X11 is a bit disappointing.  However, I've been able to do a lot of things with my Linux/ppc Mac that I would do on any computer.  And this is on an Old World Mac (specifically my Motorola StarMax 4000) which is usually harder to get installed than a New World Mac.

Consider that Linux himself is using a Power Mac G5 with Linux installed.  I'm hoping that this will mean a boost in the development of PPC Linux, especially with IBM being involved.  Of course, I'm not holding my breath on PPC Linux for the desktop just yet. 

As for getting Linux up and running, I've installed Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Slackware, and Mandrake and none of these have given me any problems during the installation, and the first two should be easy to set up for anyone.  I've set them up in a half hour at most (if you don't count apt downloading updates during the install on Debian or Ubuntu).

And don't think that your average user will be able to install Windows (or ANY operating system for that matter) easily.  If they don't know what a partition is, then you can bet they'll find someone like you or me to do it.


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## leonpmu (Jan 23, 2006)

There is also a version of Suse Linux for PPC that is available as a free download from www.opensuse.org


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## Snaffle (Feb 12, 2006)

Is their any reason why i can't create a new partition in Disk Utility? When I pick the hard drive I want to use, and select 1 partition, I can't edit anything and make a partition.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Feb 12, 2006)

That stands to reason -- you selected one partition.  If you want more than one partition, select more than one partition (ie, "2 partitions," "3 partitions," etc.).

Partitioning requires that you reformat the entire drive -- so, if you're just trying to add another partition to a drive that already has data on it, you cannot do this.  You must erase and reformat the drive with the new partition scheme.

There are utilities out there that will let you resize and repartition a drive without reformatting, although I have no experience with them.  Others have said that they work well, though:

http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/20044
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/15360
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/20301


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## duff (Feb 12, 2006)

Snaffle said:
			
		

> Is their any reason why i can't create a new partition in Disk Utility? When I pick the hard drive I want to use, and select 1 partition, I can't edit anything and make a partition.



http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/partitioning_osx.html


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