# Taking the plunge into Unix, help/advice needed



## kelson (Apr 7, 2003)

Hi, I want to run Unix applications such as Pine and ircii as well as open source software.

My first question is this..
1. Do I need to install the developer software that came with Jag?

2.  Do I install Fink on the partion that has the OS or can I put it on the 2nd (larger) partion?  I am running a 1989 imac and the first partion is just 7gigs while the 2nd is 53gigs.

3.  What books, web sites, etc would you all receomend for me to fully utilize unix on the mac os?   

4. will Fink work with Apple's Xsystem?

Thanks so much

Kelson


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## symphonix (Apr 8, 2003)

1. That would help. A handful of the Unix apps you will want to install will just assume that you have some of the utilities from the dev tools installed.

2. I'd recommend you only install Fink on the main partition. You'll have to somehow free up about a gigabyte to store all the Unix stuff you're going to end up installing.  

3. I have yet to see any titles specifically aimed at using Unix on Mac OS X, though the information found in any Unix or Linux textbook will be true of Mac OS X 95% of the time.

4. Yes. You need to load a component in Fink's package selection screen called an "X11 placeholder" that tells Fink that you have an X11 system in place and don't want one downloaded and installed.


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## Cat (Apr 8, 2003)

1) Some packages available for Fink need to be compiled and this requires the developer tools, IIRC.

2) Fink will install all of its stuff in \sw (a diretory within your root dirrectory), so I suppose this would imply that you need to install it on your main partition / disk.

3) http://fink.sourceforge.net/ has a lot of info itself, then there's the X11 FAQ right here at the top of this forum.

4) Fink will work with Apple's X11. Instructions for doing so are available on the Fink site.

Tip: Use FinkCommander once you've got Fink to have a nive GUI for installing/updating packages/programs

Tip2: There is also a OS X Package Manager 

Good luck!


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## cbaron (Apr 8, 2003)

You may be able to install fink on the second partition, but it would need to link /sw to the install dir.

I suggest you install fink normally, then mv it tou your second partition, and then :

cd /
ln -s  sw /Volumes/yoursecondpartition/path/to/fink/folder/

that should work.


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## kelson (Apr 8, 2003)

Well since I have an older mac running OS Jag and I have no choice but partion the drive they way I have, with one being 8gig or less and the other 53gigs,  maybe running unix is not such a good idea since the space issue may cause problems?   Am I correct in assuming this?  I currently run all my applications on larger partion and I have thought about moving the user profiles there as well in hopes of freeing up more space on the first (bootable) partion.    

What do you folks think?  Would you even consider tinkering with Unix on such a small partion??


Kelson

P.S. Thanks for earlier responses....I am excited about this unix thing.


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## hazmat (Apr 8, 2003)

With respect to books, O'Reilly has totally embraced OS X and has plenty of OS X-related books, at least a few dealing with UNIX on it.  I was happy to find Mac OS X for UNIX Geeks.  Just what I needed to translate normal UNIX stuff to the stupid NeXT/Darwin versions. 

http://mac.oreilly.com/


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## cradom (Apr 8, 2003)

If you're installing the latest version of Fink, just pick where you want to install. It can be on any partition or drive, the installer will automatically put the link to /sw in root.

Also, you might want to look into an app called Fink Commander. A GUI frontend to Fink.


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## kelson (Apr 9, 2003)

thank you.. 

here is what I am going to do

1. Install the software tools that came with Jaguar

2. Read Docs after install

3. Install Fink

4. Learn Fink 

5. Have fun?

My biggest concern is if it this is even worth installing.


Thank you so much, you all have been very helpful an I continue to look forward to it.


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## Cat (Apr 9, 2003)

It sure is worth installing, because you'll have access to a lot of great free opensource software!
With just X11 you already can do a lot, but with Fink you have access to more and with FinkCommander it really gets easy. I think it's really worthwhile, but you've got to see for yourself of course ... it all depends on what you need/want to do with it of course.

Good Luck!


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## kelson (Apr 11, 2003)

Well, I did it.  There were some stumblings and a few choice words but all in all I think Fink installed okay.  I tried to tinker a bit within terminal to compile ircii and had no luck so I tried pine and attempted to compile that within terminal and had no luck so I thought well I need to try Fink commander and maybe that will work better.  I downloaded and eureka it worked, I installed pine and got it up and running and sent my first test email!!!  Hooray!   I still have to figure out how to get rid of the root@pop.cox.central.net for an address..that is confusing me.     I then went and tried to compile ircii through commander and still had no luck so I have some more reading and work to do.  Any suggestions for how to change that root return address and how to get ircii working would be welecomed.

Things that I have learned from doing this...

1.  This site is wonderfu and very helpful
2.  If I did it again I would read and read more about unix so i understood/understand the basics of Unix.


Have a good day and great Friday

kelson


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## hazmat (Apr 11, 2003)

I just tried installing ircii with fink and it was fine.  What problem did you have?   The binary seems to be called irc-20021103 with a symlink to irc.  Maybe you were looking for the wrong name? 

Incidentally, a lot of people like BitchX for irc.

Hope this helps....


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## kelson (Apr 11, 2003)

Well, this is what I tried after reading your post, I did an update through Fink Commander and that all seemed to work then I tried  
sudo ircii-20030315

and got this

command not found


Probably something simple so I am continuing the pursuit.

K


P>S

I did get bitchx up and running an love it... but how does one get rid of that root sign on.  The only way for me to launch the programs I have compiled is by using sudo "filename", obviously that can not be right..  What am i missing?


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## cbaron (Apr 12, 2003)

Well, fink may need some configuration to be done, open a terminal window, and type

```
pico .tcshrc
```

notice that the dot is needed.

You should have pico opened, go to the end of the file and add this line :


```
source /sw/bin/init.csh
```

Then type ctrl+x, y and press enter, you may type source .tcshrc for changes to take effects, or open a new terminal window.


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## hazmat (Apr 12, 2003)

Yeah. cbaron is probably right.  You probably simply don't have /sw/bin in your path.  You should add it as cbaron said, but you can also get it by typing the full path.  /sw/bin/bitchx or /sw/bin/irc.


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## jbmusic (Apr 12, 2003)

As far as books, I'm reading "Unix for Mac OS X Visual QuickPro Guide", recently released by Peachpit press. It's easy to read and quite thorough. link


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

Okay, when I downloaded fink I supposedly did that .cshrc  stuff in pico, well I went in and did it again and then rechecked to see if my changes took and they did!!  Eureka!

Now, do I need to reinstall my 2 applications so the permissions will set accordingly or do I manually change them within their dir.?   

You all have great patience and I appreciate your help.. 

Kelson


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## hazmat (Apr 13, 2003)

As long as you have the fink  bin dir in your path, you shouldn't need to touch the installed programs.  Try logging out and then logging in again to totally play it safe and you should have it.  One useful thing to know about tcsh is that if you install something, tcsh usually won't know it's there, even if it's in your path.  Typing 'rehash' will fix that.


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

Maybe I need to read some more....

but, I will post the error messages I need and see if it is something simple.  I am presuming it is and I just need to identify it..

When I type pine at my prompt I do it this way

[Kelson's-Computer:~] kelson% pine

(return)
What I get is this as a result...

The "/Users/kelson/mail" subdirectory already exists,
but it is not writable by Pine so Pine cannot run.  Please correct
the permissions and restart Pine.

 Now with bitchx  I type this at the prompt

[Kelson's-Computer:~] kelson% ./bitchx

(return)
Result

./bitchx: Command not found.



My goal is to use Pine, Bitchx, news, and Tintin++ (which I realize could present a huge problem for compiling with a newbie).

Thats it, I know I am missing something easy... anyhow.. thanks again for your time and patience.

kelson


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## hazmat (Apr 13, 2003)

1. Typing ./bitchx will look for bitchx in the current directory, which by your prompt is your home directory.  You didn't install bitchx into the root of your home directory, did you? 

2. Something is odd with the permissions of your home directory, or at least with ~/mail.  Try running the Repair Disk Permissions on the partition where your home directory is with the Disk Utility.  I would think that would fix things.  Let us know if it does.


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

Running verify right now.. and it is making some corrections.. correction a lot of corrections which I find bizarre.

I think bitchx is in the root folder... 
drw-rw-rw-  11 root  admin     374 Apr 11 20:20 bitchx


gonna try running things after verify..

*crossing fingers*


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## hazmat (Apr 13, 2003)

In the root directory?  If you installed it with fink, it should be in /sw/bin.  I don't know anything that would install itself into the root directory by default.


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

It is in sw/lib

I will attempt to move it physically into the bin directory.


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## mr. k (Apr 13, 2003)

kelson, have you tried /sw/bin/bitchx?  fin k installs a "library" of bitchx (it is NOT bitchx) into the lib folder, that's what the lib folder is there for.  

And when you wrote 
"drw-rw-rw-  11 root  admin     374 Apr 11 20:20 bitchx"  doesn't mean that it is in the root directory, it means it is owned by root in the group admin ( I think thats it, it sure doesn't mean it's in the root directory)

do you know the basic unix commands? there are some seccessary ones for terminal work, like ls, cd, pwd...  if not there is a good unix tutorial in the howto and faq section of the board.


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## hazmat (Apr 13, 2003)

Oh, btw, your problem I think is that the binary (well symlink to the real binary) is actually BitchX.  Even though OS X is case-insensitive, commands in the shell are.


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

Update

1. I know the basic commands, thought indepth I do not. 

2.  I moved the sw file to my user home which is out of the root dir, some files could not be copied there due to permissions issues.

3.  I then gave BitchX another chance within the kelson home directory and guess what??  I am on line!!  No more root, no more sudo BitchX, so now I have that running.

4. I still need to explore the Pine issue, I am still getting the The

 "/Users/kelson/mail" subdirectory already exists,
but it is not writable by Pine so Pine cannot run.  Please correct
the permissions and restart Pine.

I have not bothered with the advice given on that.


So that is where I am on IRC with my actual name and not ROOT..      Now I need to get my actual full name off of that.. heheh.. 

Sluggin it out and learnin as I go.. thanks to you all.

Kelson


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## kelson (Apr 13, 2003)

I now have the ability to launch Pine from my terminal without permission issues....

except, one itsy bitsy problem.. 

Can't modify configuration file "/Users/kelson/.pinerc": ReadOnly

Searchin for this file to change the permissions.....  thinking..  

things are getting better... we are almost there.

Kelson


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## mr. k (Apr 13, 2003)

kelson do you know how to use sudo?  assuming you are an admin user you can override ANY permissions ( be careful though ) with:
sudo [ any normal unix command], and then entering an admin password.  sudo sh brings up a sudo shell (so you don't have to type sudo before everything) which you can exit with the exit command.
so    sudo pico ~/kelson/.pinerc     and then enter your pw should let you modify the config file.


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## kelson (Apr 14, 2003)

Pine works!

I rm the pinerc file and recreated and walla it works.  I now have to learn how to fix the cosmetics of the email addres but other then that I can send but not recieve yet but I think that will be taken once I do some more digging and reading.

As for bitchx,  it works and like pine just need to do some research on how to add more servers and change my id.  

Thanks for your help and not giggling as I stumpled through your advice... I will be back..I am sure.  

Kelson


P.S  has anyone got tintin up and running?


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## hazmat (Apr 14, 2003)

Tintin?  If you mean tin, yes, I use it.  It compiled under OS X no problem.  No need for fink.


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## kelson (Apr 15, 2003)

Tintin++  is a mud client for multi user dimensions.

I know you need readline to install it and I got that done I am just not sure about compiling Tintin, I think there are some issues...

K


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