# Silent iBook update



## ksv (Apr 22, 2003)

900 MHz models and new Apple Store layout 

http://www.apple.com/
http://www.apple.com/ibook/
http://store.apple.com/


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## fryke (Apr 22, 2003)

Yep, just noticed, too and posted to http://macnews.net.tc - kinda surprised me this morning. Oh, it's Tuesday. ;-)


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## Ugg (Apr 22, 2003)

A sleeper Tuesday, hmm, I wonder why such little fanfare about it?  Does this mean that the PBs are about to be upgraded too?  One has to wonder a little bit......


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## rhale1 (Apr 22, 2003)

Haven't the last 2 iBook updates been quiet? Seems odd, no big announcement for a big product. (But, then again, it is only processor and HD).


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## bjurusik (Apr 22, 2003)

No Airport Extreme or Bluetooth!?!?  I was going to buy one this summer, but they don't have these features ... what gives?  I surely doubt they are going to upgrade them again in July or August.


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bjurusik _
> *No Airport Extreme or Bluetooth!?!?  I was going to buy one this summer, but they don't have these features ... what gives?  I surely doubt they are going to upgrade them again in July or August. *



The iBook is the lowend consumer portable.  If they load it up with AE, Bluetooth and some other goodies, what's going to make you buy the 12" PB over it?  Probably only a Super Drive if you need one.

MHz for MHz, the G3 is faster than the G4 with no L3 cache on non Altivec operations.  I want to see some benchmarks against the 12" PB!


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## monktus (Apr 22, 2003)

Hmm, I noticed that the UK store still has the old layout.


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## ddma (Apr 22, 2003)

Although the new iBook is running at 900MHz, please don't forget the 100MHz system bus speed! It's no way faster than the PowerBook 867's 133MHz system bus.


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## bjurusik (Apr 22, 2003)

Sure it's the low end model, but AE is their new technology, they should get it out there.  I mean, even the new iMacs have AE and Bluetooth, and they are just consumer products.  To me, it doesn't make much sense to put AE in desktops, it's not that hard usually to run a cord to it.  On the other hand, this is supposed to be the year of the laptops.  I want something small and portable without sacrificing features.  Would it honestly have cost that much more to add Bluetooth or AE, no.  Definitely not work the $700 more that the 12" AL is over the iBook.


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## Snowball (Apr 22, 2003)

Amen to that, bjurusik. I think Apple really should have done more than processor speed bumps. Usually when new products come out on their webpage I say to myself "Wow, that's cool!" but today I just felt...well, nothing impressed me frankly. I guess the current iBook owners have nothing to worry about, as there weren't any substantial hardware upgrades, pretty much only a minimal processor speed bump. I know iBook sales would eat at PowerBook sales if they revved the G3 to 1 GHz, but would that be so bad? Apple would still be making money...the G3 has been at 1GHz for longer than the G4, hasn't it?

And come on Apple, get with the program. If you want people to adopt your new technologies (AE, FireWire 2, etc), _put them in new hardware_! It's stupid business practice to try to stop the advancement of one product (iBook) over another (PowerBook) since as long as people are buying your product (either Book) you are still making money.


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## Jason (Apr 22, 2003)

when did they update the apple stores layout? 

cool updates though, now my ibook is out of date


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ddma _
> *Although the new iBook is running at 900MHz, please don't forget the 100MHz system bus speed! It's no way faster than the PowerBook 867's 133MHz system bus. *



System bus hardly means anything.  The G3 infact is rated for a 200MHz System bus.  Apple keeps it at 100MHz so to not totally embarass the G4.

You have PC2100 RAM in the 12" PB running at (167MHz?) on a 133MHz System bus.  Figure that one out.

Check out the URL below.  The G3 bests the G4 in two apps by a fair margin.  

http://www.barefeats.com/emac.html


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bjurusik _
> *Would it honestly have cost that much more to add Bluetooth or AE, no.  Definitely not work the $700 more that the 12" AL is over the iBook. *



You just answered your own question.  If  Apple put AE and Bluetooth in the iBook, no way would people pay $500+ more for a 12" AL.

Now since it's still not there, a lot of people will kick it over and decide it's what they need and shell out that $500+ for AE and Bluetooth.


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Snowball _
> *I know iBook sales would eat at PowerBook sales if they revved the G3 to 1 GHz, but would that be so bad? Apple would still be making money...the G3 has been at 1GHz for longer than the G4, hasn't it?
> 
> And come on Apple, get with the program. If you want people to adopt your new technologies (AE, FireWire 2, etc), put them in new hardware! It's stupid business practice to try to stop the advancement of one product (iBook) over another (PowerBook) since as long as people are buying your product (either Book) you are still making money. *



If iBook sales were to seriously dwarf PB sales, Apple would be in some serious trouble.  What do you think the R&D costs were for those new PBs?  It's been incorporated into the price of the PBs, now Apple needs to sell a specific amount of them within a specific time to recoup those costs.  

The current iBook design is going on two years now and has seen a significant price drop ($200).  R&D costs were recouped and Apple could afford to do this.

Apple's main focus is PBs right now.  They have so much invested in them there is no way they can afford sales to slow down.

So to sum it all up, Apple's product mix and price plan selection is carefully formulated to return optimum revenue for Apple.  The idea of "as long as they're selling something" they're making money doesn't work in reality.


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## Jason (Apr 22, 2003)

all this doesnt answer my question, how long ago did they update the layout of the apple store?


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## wtmcgee (Apr 22, 2003)

well it IS only 100mhz and a few other little bumps.

in the past year, the iBook has only seen a 50% increase in processor speed.  last year, i believe the top of the line model was 600mhz.  now it's up to 900.  that's nothing to get too excited about, that's all.



> _Originally posted by Ugg _
> *A sleeper Tuesday, hmm, I wonder why such little fanfare about it?  Does this mean that the PBs are about to be upgraded too?  One has to wonder a little bit...... *


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## ksv (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *all this doesnt answer my question, how long ago did they update the layout of the apple store?   *



Approx. 10 hours ago


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## bjurusik (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *You just answered your own question.  If  Apple put AE and Bluetooth in the iBook, no way would people pay $500+ more for a 12" AL.
> 
> Now since it's still not there, a lot of people will kick it over and decide it's what they need and shell out that $500+ for AE and Bluetooth. *



You're right, people wouldn't pay the extra money ... that's why the 12" AL is pointless.  Sure you get a faster G4 processor, but I don't think anyone buys the 12" AL book for a multimedia intensive computer.  But that's not the point.  The don't even sell the old Airport basestation at the Apple Store anymore, so why include it in *new* models.  Atleast give the buyer the option of upgrading to AE.  It's like buying a brand new car with a tape cassette.  AE and Bluetooth are just accessories ... consumers and professionals alike have cell phones / PDAs with Bluetooth that they would like to sync and would like to have a fast wireless internet connection.  But now the consumer has to go out and buy the professional model because Apple was being cheap.


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bjurusik _
> *You're right, people wouldn't pay the extra money ... that's why the 12" AL is pointless.  Sure you get a faster G4 processor, but I don't think anyone buys the 12" AL book for a multimedia intensive computer.  But that's not the point.  The don't even sell the old Airport basestation at the Apple Store anymore, so why include it in *new* models.  Atleast give the buyer the option of upgrading to AE.  It's like buying a brand new car with a tape cassette.  AE and Bluetooth are just accessories ... consumers and professionals alike have cell phones / PDAs with Bluetooth that they would like to sync and would like to have a fast wireless internet connection.  But now the consumer has to go out and buy the professional model because Apple was being cheap. *



But you see, people will pay $500+ when not given any other option.  Apple is not being cheap, Apple is trying to stay in business.  

Also, the iBook was not redesigned, so how do you expect them to offer AE?  It is a completely different size than the original AirPort card.

AE Base Station works with the original AirPort card so it's not a big deal.

Nobody has a 11 or 54 Mbps internet connection so it's pretty much pointless unless you're transfering files within a home network.  Even still, 54 Mbps is terribly slow compared to a CAT5 wire and 1000 Mbps ethernet.

You want all these little goodies with your iBook but chances are, you'll never use them so what's the point?


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## spitty27 (Apr 22, 2003)

iBook update isnt too silent anymore...check the apple website, they annouced it on the bottom


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## Decado (Apr 22, 2003)

it happened today. the update, that is. of the apple store, that is.


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## ksv (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by spitty27 _
> *iBook update isnt too silent anymore...check the apple website, they annouced it on the bottom *



It's always been, but new product releases are normally where FCP4 is now


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## bjurusik (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *But you see, people will pay $500+ when not given any other option.  Apple is not being cheap, Apple is trying to stay in business.
> 
> Also, the iBook was not redesigned, so how do you expect them to offer AE?  It is a completely different size than the original AirPort card.
> ...



Granted, but neither was the iMac redesigned, yet it has those features.  It just comes down to Apple being inconsistent along its product lines.  I'm not asking for a Super Drive equipped, 1MB L3 cache iBook, but I think if Apple wants to promote it's digital hub / simple to use computer it should include these 2 features in the iBook.  Maybe I'm asking for too much, I just think its dumb that if the iMac has it, then so should the iBook ... but who knows.


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## malexgreen (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ksv _
> *900 MHz models and new Apple Store layout
> 
> http://www.apple.com/
> ...



What's the motivation of spending an extra $20-$30 to go from a top-of-the-line ibook (that has a big HD, wireless, 14" screen, and pretty fast processor) to a 12" powerbook?

I hope they replace the 12" powerbook with a tablet, soon.


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## Androo (Apr 22, 2003)

awesome! i love you apple! i've been waiting for the new ibook to come out, i was waiting to buy it. Impact resistant, not special doors or nothing to brake off. Fits in your backpack, and it's affordable, unlike the powerbook.i'll get it in the summer, or after panther is released.


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## ksv (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *awesome! i love you apple! i've been waiting for the new ibook to come out, i was waiting to buy it. Impact resistant, not special doors or nothing to brake off. Fits in your backpack, and it's affordable, unlike the powerbook.i'll get it in the summer, or after panther is released. *



Ah, refreshing to hear someone not complaining at all


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## boi (Apr 22, 2003)

i'll most likely be buying a 12" ibook as well. i wish they'd throw a dvd player in the $999 one. i don't need to burn on the go, but i'd like to watch dvds on the go ^_^.


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## Androo (Apr 22, 2003)

Hey, listen to this. I think there's a new ibook out!


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## dlloyd (Apr 22, 2003)

Ah well now boi, if they put a DVD player on the $999 one, then you wouldn't get the $1199 version, would you? 
Apple just got you to pay them $200 dollars more than you would have otherwise  It's called marketing.
Ah well, I had the joy of having the top-of-the-line iBook for just over four whole months. And I still have the second in line! Pretty good, huh?


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dlloyd _
> *Ah well now boi, if they put a DVD player on the $999 one, then you wouldn't get the $1199 version, would you?
> Apple just got you to pay them $200 dollars more than you would have otherwise  It's called marketing.
> Ah well, I had the joy of having the top-of-the-line iBook for just over four whole months. And I still have the second in line! Pretty good, huh? *



there's a $1199 iBook with cd-rw/dvd?!

gimmeeeeeee


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## Jason (Apr 22, 2003)

education store 

i will say this, my ibook is my favorite computer ever, for many the reasons androo stated

fairly cheap, good enough performance, its rugged, its good on batteries, light weight, no extra shape too it.. i love it


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## Ricky (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Androo _
> *Hey, listen to this. I think there's a new ibook out! *


... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ::ha::


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## bjurusik (Apr 22, 2003)

Does anyone think that the iBooks will be redesigned, say around August?  Say Apple chooses to release 970 Macs this summer, would they keep 3 different processors ... 970, G4, and the G3?  I guess it would depend a lot on Panther.  If Panther is 64-bit, would this require more computing power?  Is Panther going to be even more efficient and run even faster on current hardware, or is it going to require faster hardware.  I guess time will tell.  With this release at somewhat of an ackward time, I think this is a good sign that a tablet Mac will be coming.  They could introduce that along with the 15" ALbook.  <BR><BR> And about my iBook argument, it's too bad Apple doesn't still offer the "real" build to order options.  I remember when you could choose a PowerMac and actually upgrade the processor.  It's too bad I couldn't go the Apple Store and totally customize  processor speed, screen size, RAM, HD, etc.  I guess that would cost Apple a lot more tho.


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## kendall (Apr 22, 2003)

The new 12" 900MHz iBook has the cheap, unpainted, white PC plastic interior like the  old  lowend 700MHz CD.

I think the new 14" have the old casing.

Also, the outer casing is solid white, not translucent.

It just doesn't look as elegant.  A damn shame.  I always though the iBook had the most style of any Mac.  Now it's just wrapped in white PC mouse plastic.


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## JFlynn (Apr 23, 2003)

Im selling my 12 iBook and buying the 12 Powerbook. I want the DDR, and the Altivec, and the option to do dual monitor with the VGA output (not the mirroring that the iBook does). I am a student, and that would be perfect for me, seeing I dont have a desktop anymore. I love the portability of the 12" systems, and this would be my last upgrade for a while. 

Apple might have to do a lot to get AE into the iBook, because it uses PCI instead of PCMCIA. At MWSF, an apple rep said they couldnt get 11g over PCMCIA, which is crap, because PC companies are doing it... so either just that guy is whacked, or apple is whacked...


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## fryke (Apr 23, 2003)

Apple wants (and needs) to keep a difference between the iBook 12" and the PowerBook 12", so that's one reason why they don't want AE in the iBooks just yet.

If this _is_ the year of the notebook, we'll see new PowerBooks (12, 15, 17 inch) in July/August and revamped iBooks in September.


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## iscaro (Apr 23, 2003)

Help Me   

Wich one is better for which use...
PowerBook 12"
iBook 900Mhz

or maybe it's better to spend more and wait for the 15" PB to come?

I want to have a laptop, 15" is the best... but it is a lot of money now... and I don't really need one so nice right now, maybe later...

Which one is the best buy?


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## dlloyd (Apr 23, 2003)

Kendall: When I bought mine, the $999 was the cheapest (700MHz CD-ROM; cheapest unless you count the _old_ 600MHz one), followed by the $1199 model (800 MHz, Combo, and twice as much VRAM). Then there were several other more expensive options.
JFlynn: assuming that you have a _relatively_ new iBook (600 MHz or greater) your video card actually supports Extended Desktop, you just need to do a little firmware hack because Apple disabled this feature at 'boot time'. 
I did this, it works fine, and I *love* it! Best thing since sliced bread, as someone said.
Mine actually does quite a nice resolution: 1280x980 or something like that.
Anyway, just so you know!


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## plastic (Apr 23, 2003)

They updated the Apple Store look about four days back. LOL. If you went to the main page, they had like a "handwritten" sticky on it. Very cute. Very human. VERY APPLE. 

I don't think we will ever see this "humanisation" on Microsoft sites.


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## drustar (Apr 23, 2003)

14.1 displays have more than 1024x768 resolution? Tried to look at the data sheet but I'm at a computer lab and it doesn't have Adobe Acrobat Reader.


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## dlloyd (Apr 23, 2003)

drustar, I assume that you thought I was meaning that the hack would increase the iBook's internal moniter screen resolution?
Well, first of all, that would make things look _really bad_.  LCD's have a native resolution, and they are not supposed to go above this.
What I actually meant with that screen resolution is that if you hack your firmware to enable extended desktop on the iBook, then the external monitor will support that resolution (at least on my computer).


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## siggman (Apr 23, 2003)

dear dlloyd, help me to hack my firmware, how to achive this resolution?

please, please


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## fryke (Apr 23, 2003)

Nope. The 14" are 1024*768. Things are only bigger, not more on that display.


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## Dusky (Apr 23, 2003)

> 14.1 displays have more than 1024x768 resolution?



No.

On a diff note...

I bought an iBook yesterday.  I chose the 12" Combo Drive.  I was debating whether to get RAM from the Apple Store or order some online (crucial.com, ramjet.com).  The difference in price would have been about 50 bucks; Apple sells ram more expensively.

In the end I decided to remove a 256MB stick from my old 700mhz iBook, and put it into the new iBook.  So now I have a 900mhz iBook with 384MB ram.  As soon as I get the old iBook fixed, I'm gonna order 512MB to place in the new iBook, and put the 256MB back in the old one.

I'm sure there are others here with a 700mhz iBook, thinking of getting a new iBook...  sell the old iBook but keep the ram.


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## dlloyd (Apr 23, 2003)

siggman (and anyone else who is interested): here is Google's cache of the page with iBook extended desktop instructions: (the real site it down right now) www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]Web site[/URL].
Make sure you read the instructions _all the way through_ before you do anything. Also, the firmware commands must be entered _exactly_ as they appear. I entered them wrong, and although nothing bad happened, the hack didn't work, and it took me awhile a figure out what was wrong.
Also, do not try this hack if your computer has a Rage chip, it only works with the Radeons in the newer iBooks and the _17_ inch iMac.

Good luck!


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## Androo (Apr 23, 2003)

Dusky: ummmm 14.1 displays don't though... the highest is 1024x768....


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## dracolich (Apr 24, 2003)

> Does anyone think that the iBooks will be redesigned, say around August?  Say Apple chooses to release 970 Macs this summer, would they keep 3 different processors ... 970, G4, and the G3?




They could, but I doubt it. With IBM moving to the top spot, Apple will gradually phase out Motorola, until we will have G4s on portables and G6s on desktops (like it has happened with G3s and G4s)... then Motorola will make the NEXT BIG CHIP and it will move back to the desktop and so on and on and on...


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## fryke (Apr 24, 2003)

I really don't see Motorola back in the desktop computer processor business. Their focus is on mobile and embedded computing, which makes them a good provider for notebook processors.

IBM will take the place for now. Maybe Motorola will be used for G4s in notebooks while the desktops go IBM PPC 970.

The iBooks will either stay G3 (IBM has better G3s in petto) or move to the G4. But rather in October than in August...


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## ex2bot (Apr 24, 2003)

drustar:

No, the 14" displays have a native res. of 1024x768. Dlloyd is talking about unsupported firmware hacks. Potentially dangerous, I guess. . . 

Doug


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## ksv (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dktrickey _
> *drustar:
> 
> No, the 14" displays have a native res. of 1024x768. Dlloyd is talking about unsupported firmware hacks. Potentially dangerous, I guess. . .
> ...



Yea, some actually had their iBooks killed. I never heard if those people ever got them working again, but it shouldn't actually be harder than removing the battery and disconnecting power for a day. Off topic


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## Jason (Apr 24, 2003)

it would be nice to have 1280x1024 res outputted to a monitor... oh well


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## ksv (Apr 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *it would be nice to have 1280x1024 res outputted to a monitor... oh well *



The graphics chips are capable of running dual displays with 1600x1200 or even more on the second display, so this is just a limitation Apple sets to make people buy more expensive models. And it seems to work as Apple has done similar things since Steve Jobs came back to Apple. Errm, it's just how capitalism works


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## dlloyd (Apr 24, 2003)

dktricky, the only people whose iBooks died were people with Rage graphics chips. As long as your iBook has a Radeon, you are fine.


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