# New PowerMacs!



## Cat (Jan 28, 2003)

And here they are: dual 1.42 GHz PM's! Now the PM line starts at only $ 1499. This absolutely kills the MHz Myth thread ... 

http://www.apple.com


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## Cat (Jan 28, 2003)

The screen lineup is now very good:

17"    $   699,-    1280 x 1024
20"    $ 1299,-    1680 x 1050
23"    $ 1999,-    1920 x 1200

Sorry for the double post.


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## binaryDigit (Jan 28, 2003)

Don't forget AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, and FireWire 800.


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## WoLF (Jan 28, 2003)

theres like 4 posts of this on the forums..

three within this forum


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## Cat (Jan 28, 2003)

Well, we all saw it at the same time and then were writing the posts, all convinced we were the first, so we didn't see them until to late... 

These updates were long overdue, so I can understand the enthusiasm! Very nice price drops and new specs, so the price/performance ratio has gotten an enormous boost IMHO.


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

WOW WOW WOW. i just returned. and i visited apple. i WAS SCHOCKED. 

$2000 for 23 inch ? OUAOUUU.. im gonna give my dad a call . he he he 

WAY TO GO APPLE  im really excited


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

just look at the attached file  he he he


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## Cat (Jan 28, 2003)

What surprised me a bit was the (huge) 2 MB L3 cache: that really is a lot!

Does anybody know how precisely this new X-Serve system controller improves the architecture?







The PM's are now better than the X-serve: faster processors, and same architecture. Hmmm, methinks the x-serve is going to be updated soon...


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## wtmcgee (Jan 28, 2003)

wonder if we'll see 10.2.4 anytime today...


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## ddma (Jan 28, 2003)

The new Power Mac G4s are not Bluetooth built in... See online store it says "Bluetooth Ready" only.

I like the Radeon 9700 Pro graphic card tho.

Did you guys see the OS 9 Power Macs? They are more expensive then the new ones. Follow the link on Power Mac Apple Online Store page.


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

firewire 800 thats what i like. and the custom built 1.42GHZ mac does have Built in bluetooth 


as for 10.2.4: probably this week  
lets hope tomorrow


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## kendall (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cat _
> *What surprised me a bit was the (huge) 2 MB L3 cache: that really is a lot!
> 
> Does anybody know how precisely this new X-Serve system controller improves the architecture?
> ...



its a bottlenecker.  basically it allows the G4 to work with DDR memory yet benefit absolutely 0 from it.


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

23 inch screen at $2000 and firewire 800 thats what i like. and the custom built 1.42GHZ mac does have Built in bluetooth 


as for 10.2.4: probably this week  
lets hope tomorrow


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## torres (Jan 28, 2003)

I wonder if the picture of the shuttle on the monitor on Apple's homepage has anything to do with the fact that today is the anniversary of the space shuttle challenger accident.


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## bobw (Jan 28, 2003)

The only one of the new G4's that will boot into OS 9 is the Dual 1.25Ghz.

10.2.4 supposed to be released on Thursday, and iLife on Friday.


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## Ricky (Jan 28, 2003)

Yay for new stuff!    My thoughts:
-First, good on Apple's part.  The new Power Macs support some of the fastest RAM currently available:  333MHz DDR.  w00t!  It would have been nice to see some new processors, but I suppose that can wait until next MacWorld.
-Second, reducing the prices on the displays...  Smart.  And the 17 inch is now competitively priced with other flat-panels, but with this you get true color.  And that 20-inch looks very tempting.  
-Third, anyone know what kinds of enhancements 10.2.4 will bring?
-And lastly, how many of you are going to rush to apple.com Friday and get the iLife updates?


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## Cat (Jan 28, 2003)

Kendall wrote:


> its a bottlenecker. basically it allows the G4 to work with DDR memory yet benefit absolutely 0 from it.


Huh? 

If you're right, I don't see why Apple would add it, since previously the duals worked well without. 

Since it runs at 167 MHz, it's no more a bottleneck than the system bus (133-167).

They assign quite a central position to it:


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## MisterMe (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ddma _
> *....
> 
> Did you guys see the OS 9 Power Macs? They are more expensive then the new ones. Follow the link on Power Mac Apple Online Store page. *


You are just plain wrong. The OS 9 Power Macs are older models left on sale strictly as build to order offerings. Comparable new machines are priced $150 to $200 higher than the old ones:

New Fastest  $2699
Old Fastest    $2499

New Ultimate $3799
Old Ultimate   $3549


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## kendall (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cat _
> *Kendall wrote:
> 
> Huh?
> ...



notice how the G4 is split off from everything else?  the system could run a 333MHz bus speed but once it hits the controller, it has no impact on the G4.

here is information about the bottleneck.

http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html

in essence, everything with higher bus speeds such as RAM are communicating directly with the controller, not the G4.  DDR memory costs more for the PowerMac with absolutely no benefits.  

Apple does this because people think, ooooooh! DDR, oooooooooh! faster Macs!


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

AND AS WE ALL KNOW. apple is always taking advantage of us. and in such times where their market share is getting lower. THE BEST MOVE is to just trick us and sell DDR just to make more money!

THIS IS VERY OBVIOUSLY THE CASE as apple is the only company that trickz ppl into sellin their products for somethin thats not there!
whereas ur rock solid company MS would never do such a thing  hahahahhahah


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *notice how the G4 is split off from everything else?  the system could run a 333MHz bus speed but once it hits the controller, it has no impact on the G4.
> 
> here is information about the bottleneck.
> ...



...a Dual Mac > 1GHz with SDRAM? Hmmmmm... Nowhere! You only saw a Dual 1GHz running a single app at a time at barefeats or anywhere for that matter and you decide to spread the word that indeed a DDR Dual is slower than SDRAM, eh?

Excuse me, but under heavy conditions the DDR (including the 1GHz Dual) Macs fare MUCH better than the previous SDRAM models... But hey: What Apple knows and exchanged the SDRAM with DDR? It costs more hah? And how come they keep pushing their prices down?

Browse here:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/architecture.html

And let the people who actually used the new DDR Duals to decide if their Macs are fast or not! As for DDR, in case you CANNOT get it, let me put this way: With this new underlying technology not only the Macs are able to perform MUCH better than the previous SDRAM ones but also lets them scale upwards better... Even on the Wintels, DDR lets them use more busses, more peripherals, more stuff at the same time... If one doesn't understand something, he should check things first THEN decide! And I know for 100% that most people here that iWhine about PowerMacs NEVER used the high-end Duals cause if they actually used them, they should know this:
-NOTHING CAN TOUCH THEM UNDER HEAVY LOAD IN THIS PRICE RANGE OR BELOW 

And this comes from a guy who can back things he says IF and WHEN that forces that be around here will let him post a video or two just to clear things out because charts and stuff are nice but Audio & Video rules 

Slow Duals I read you say? Never truly you used ones I get...   At least I did use and always continue to do so because Dark Side has nothing over me


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

hahah... the stealth claps  i couldnt have said it better myself (assumin i knew all this stuff)
thanx hulk. at least i find out and learn more new stuff from u everyday. we need more of U here. and LESS of the others. 

i can also start readin articles on sites like bearfeats.com and i can also play smart. but i dont really do that. cause id hate to be bashed by The Hulk . but then again. it seems that the purpose of some ppl around here is just to post threads in order to make a fuss


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *some ppl around here is just to post threads in order to make a fuss  *



Do you know/get something that we all around here don't get it?


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

i dont know i just get the feelin that either sum ppl dont belong here. or they just provoke us so that theres a constant flow of posts, meanin more visits.

   since im only a CHILD. and since im not very ROCK SOLID . im probably wrong. but i dont think that its bad when i express my opinions


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## malexgreen (Jan 28, 2003)

So I'm wondering, is this the answer to the ongoing megahertz myth discussion. Any performance results yet?


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by malexgreen _
> *So I'm wondering, is this the answer to the ongoing megahertz myth discussion. Any performance results yet? *



The new Dual 1.42 will not be out for at least a month in quantities so I guess we will have at least 10-15 days before the first tests will start appearing...

Take note, however that when they do STILL people will whine, still will find ways of mess things up for Apple, still will have us arguing here for them 

But you see, there is no REAL site out there comparing apples to apples:
-Dual G4/1.42 VS P4/3 HT
-With MANY apps at the same time doing their things
-While those apps will be apps that exist on both platforms AND
-are customized for both platforms
-While those apps interact with the hardware

I know 100% that NO internet site will dare such a thing because they don't know how and the worst of all THEY don't care...

However, I would like to see even those super market benchmark scores to appear just because even with them the Mac platform will score better this time


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## stealth (Jan 28, 2003)

*quote: Rob makes a good point about needing faster hardware, but since GC on  the G3/500 converts a RAW file to JPEG 4X faster than the P4/3.06GHz,  we can also start getting active about demanding better software, or at  least using it when available. * 
(btw GC iz graphic converter)

i know that this doesnt really fit in here. but i just wanted to make a point bout better software on macs or at least better optimized for macs. maybe we could also have those little nice stickers on our macs. sayin : SPECIALLY DESIGNED FOR MACS! he he he

this quote comes from this article ...


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## btoneill (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *
> in essence, everything with higher bus speeds such as RAM are communicating directly with the controller, not the G4.  DDR memory costs more for the PowerMac with absolutely no benefits.
> 
> Apple does this because people think, ooooooh! DDR, oooooooooh! faster Macs! *




Hmmm, thats strange, taking an iMac with 256M of normal SDRAM to 1GB costs $400 more in the Apple store, taking the 1Ghz single proc tower with 256M DDR266 to 1GB costs $300 more. For the 1.25Ghz DP with 256M DDR333 costs $375 to take it to 1GB. Now, where did you learn that $400 is less then both $375 and $300?

Brian


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## verlorenengel (Jan 28, 2003)

Just ordered my dual 1.42


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## sheepguy42 (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMe _
> *You are just plain wrong. The OS 9 Power Macs are older models left on sale strictly as build to order offerings. Comparable new machines are priced $150 to $200 higher than the old ones:
> 
> New Fastest  $2699
> ...


On OS 9 PowerMac purchase page:
" $2,499.00  

 Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
2MB L3 cache/processor
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
Mac OS 9 boot supported"

" $3,549.00  

 Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
2MB L3 cache/processor
2GB DDR333 SDRAM
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium
Mac OS 9 boot supported"

From non-OS 9-booting page:
"$1,999.00  

 Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache/processor
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
Combo Drive
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
FireWire 800
56K internal modem
Bluetooth Ready"

The "Fastest" and "Ultimate" ratings only apply to what's on that page. I prefer to compare what you get vs how much you pay, and the new machines are cheaper in this.


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## jeb1138 (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *Hmmm, thats strange, taking an iMac with 256M of normal SDRAM to 1GB costs $400 more in the Apple store, taking the 1Ghz single proc tower with 256M DDR266 to 1GB costs $300 more. For the 1.25Ghz DP with 256M DDR333 costs $375 to take it to 1GB. Now, where did you learn that $400 is less then both $375 and $300?
> 
> Brian *



The iMac's use SODIMMs (normally used for laptops, etc), which are more expensive than normal DIMMS.  Check out Crucial.com's (good source for prices & quality) webpages.  PC2700 DDR RAM costs $130 for 1 stick of 512 MB and PC133 SDRAM costs between $83-$105 for 1 stick of 512 MB.  PC2100 does slightly better than PC2700 (pricewise).

PC2700:
http://www.crucial.com/store/listmodule.asp?module=DDR+PC2700&Attrib=Package&cat=RAM
PC133:
http://www.crucial.com/store/listMo...+PC133&cat=RAM&package=168-pin+DIMM&submit=Go

Still,PC2700 RAM running at half speed at 167MHz is still faster than 133MHz SDRAM, isn't it?  

Also, DDR is becoming pretty common, isn't it?  Seems like it might be a good idea for $20 for Apple to make the machines use memory that is going to be more and more mass produced and lower in price while SDRAM slowly fades away and becomes rare and more expensive...?  I don't know, just guessing.


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## mightyjlr (Jan 28, 2003)

you have to wonder what kind of a profit Apple was making from the 23 inch Cinema Display if they can cut the price on it 43%.


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mightyjlr _
> *you have to wonder what kind of a profit Apple was making from the 23 inch Cinema Display if they can cut the price on it 43%. *



...what huge stock they have?

or what volume they put on order?

or...


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## kendall (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by btoneill _
> *Hmmm, thats strange, taking an iMac with 256M of normal SDRAM to 1GB costs $400 more in the Apple store, taking the 1Ghz single proc tower with 256M DDR266 to 1GB costs $300 more. For the 1.25Ghz DP with 256M DDR333 costs $375 to take it to 1GB. Now, where did you learn that $400 is less then both $375 and $300?
> 
> Brian *



what i was trying to say is DDR memory costs more than PC133 with no benefit.  not that any specific PowerMac costs more than another.  

512MB DDR is about $50 mo money than 512MB SDRAM at crucial.


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## hulkaros (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *what i was trying to say is DDR memory costs more than PC133 with no benefit.  not that any specific PowerMac costs more than another.
> 
> 512MB DDR is about $50 mo money than 512MB SDRAM at crucial. *



...I'm gonna fork out some serious money in order to buy a powerful tool for my work and play and I'm going to bother for $50-$100?

Gee! What a HUGE dilema! As for the no benefit part I think that the pros who really maxed out both the SDR-based and the DDR-based Duals know better... That DDR rules!

And if you think that barefeats (or anyone else for that matter) is so fair and square how come and they didn't re-test the systems under heavy load? Quake, photoshop, itunes, et al may NOT show any benefit (or even worst decrease) for DDR while single using them but while you multitask between many apps (and even hardware at the same time) DDR comes on top, easily! 

Also, Apple in general dropped their prices some more with these new products regardless what you may like to believe... Isn't that what MANY people here asked for? For even lower prices: So here they are...

A dual 1.25 with 17" amazing flat display, 512MB ram, SuperDrive, Airport extreme, FireWire800, Bluetooth... ONLY $3172... You got to be kidding right? Compare this with any similar offer with Wintels and cry for the Dark Side


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## kendall (Jan 28, 2003)

you've got an excuse for everything buddy.  drink your kool-aid and be happy!


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## leadfootedfool (Jan 29, 2003)

All I'm going to say is maybe if more people watched Strong Bad, this world would be a better place.  Rock on my crapfully crappy friend kendall


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## ApeintheShell (Jan 29, 2003)

I'd say now that they dropped the price of the base powermac i'm going to pick that up with a 17" display. 
Here's a question:
What is the point of owning your mac if your gonna bash its features at every turn?
It seems like the mac community is being invaded with propoganda every morning.


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## hulkaros (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *you've got an excuse for everything buddy.  drink your kool-aid and be happy!  *



...your way of handling things around here! And if your excuse is drinking that kool-aid of yours, quit drinking...

Your organism cannot handle it 

As for me: don't worry... Worry about your actions around here and THEN be happy  with or without drinks


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## hulkaros (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ApeintheShell _
> *I'd say now that they dropped the price of the base powermac i'm going to pick that up with a 17" display.
> Here's a question:
> What is the point of owning your mac if your gonna bash its features at every turn?
> It seems like the mac community is being invaded with propoganda every morning. *



...Apple does or will do for its customers SOME people cannot feel peace and happiness because the problems lies inside them  and not at Apple's offerings 

We have a saying here in Greece for such people:
-You are arguing with YOUR clothing


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## dracolich (Jan 29, 2003)

Some days ago I saw the offering for a Giove PC (a well esteemed brand here in Italy, been around for years):

P4 3.06 HT
533 Mhz bus with 512 MB of 333 Mhz DDR
120 GB HD (up to four inside)
Pioneer A04 DVD-R 4x, DVD-RW 2x ecc (SuperDrive)
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
SoundBlaster Audigy 2
2 x Firewire 400
2 x USB 2.0
4 x USB 1.0
56K FaxModem
Logitech MX 700 Cordless Optical Mouse
Logitech Cordless Keyboard
Windows XP Home (but that's not the point)

PRICE 2'999.90 euros before VAT

Today I went on the online Italian AppleStore, took the PowerMac 1.42 DP, put a Rad9700 on it, and got

PRICE 3'682,80 euros before VAT

So, for the same features (more or less, but I'll give you the bluetooth connectivity for USB 2.0 and Airport Extreme for the Audigy2) you STILL have to pay a 23% premium price for owning a Mac.

All this, mainly because we live in Europe, where Apple has no interest whatsoever in keeping a decent market share (ever heard the term cash-cow? Here we are: moo-mooo!).


-------------

iBook  (800 Mhz CPU, 384 MB RAM)
PowerMac G3 beige   (333 Mhz CPU, 384 MB RAM)
Macintosh LC III+    (33 Mhz CPU, 36 MB RAM)
Macintosh SE   (8 Mhz CPU, 4 MB RAM)

Finally, CPUs have surpassed RAM!


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## Anim8r (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dracolich _
> *So, for the same features (more or less, but I'll give you the bluetooth connectivity for USB 2.0 and Airport Extreme for the Audigy2) you STILL have to pay a 23% premium price for owning a Mac.
> 
> All this, mainly because we live in Europe, where Apple has no interest whatsoever in keeping a decent market share (ever heard the term cash-cow? Here we are: moo-mooo!).
> ...



I wonder... ever hear the term import tariff? How about cost of distribution? You pay a premium because it costs more for Apple (a U.S. company) to do business in Europe. Whereas that PC can be cobbled togeher from non-commodity parts.


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## dracolich (Jan 29, 2003)

> I wonder... ever hear the term import tariff? How about cost of distribution? You pay a premium because it costs more for Apple (a U.S. company) to do business in Europe. Whereas that PC can be cobbled togeher from non-commodity parts.



Parts that have to be imported and distributed, too. (AMD has a factory in Germany, but I've never heard Intel has a production facility in the UE. If you look at the premium components, all of them are imported.) And last time I looked, PowerMacs were the last Macs assembled in Ireland (an UE country).

Anyway, I think Apple more than covers its supposedly higher costs with its no-frills policy: no ads in magazines, no ads on the television, no Apple Official Stores, centralized technical maintenance (if something breaks, you have to ship it to Holland - time required for servicing a monitor: 2 months), centralized marketing (all you can see are bad transations of US pamphlets, with no localization: I mean, they promoted Office X as on par with Office XP, even if Office X has NO Italian localization and its Italian dictionary was buggy and unusable until january 2003).


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## MisterMe (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dracolich _
> *.... I mean, they promoted Office X as on par with Office XP, even if Office X has NO Italian localization and its Italian dictionary was buggy and unusable until january 2003). *


Office X is a Microsoft product. That means that the responsibility for Office X lies solely with Microsoft and none with Apple.


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## Anim8r (Jan 29, 2003)

So, buy a Dell in the EU... what is the cost?


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## hulkaros (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dracolich _
> *So, for the same features (more or less, but I'll give you the bluetooth connectivity for USB 2.0 and Airport Extreme for the Audigy2) you STILL have to pay a 23% premium price for owning a Mac.
> 
> All this, mainly because we live in Europe, where Apple has no interest whatsoever in keeping a decent market share (ever heard the term cash-cow? Here we are: moo-mooo!).
> *



MOO MOOOOOOO, we are moo-ing here in Greece too... Apple were are you? Here in Greece we pay at least $300 more for every new Mac sold here with ONLY basic support for our mother language...

As for Office X for Mac supporting our language... Not even for JUST typing greek text without applying a GR (crap)Update which we can have ONLY if we bought our Macs from Greece!!! 

The greek support here is nowhere to be found and with the additional cost (which is a lot more than any other European country) the greek Mac market is zombiefied (living dead) 

MOOOO MOOOOOOO MOOOOOOOOO


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## hulkaros (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMe _
> *Office X is a Microsoft product. That means that the responsibility for Office X lies solely with Microsoft and none with Apple. *



M$ here in Greece throws the ball to the Apple company here (Rainbow Computers) and guess what?

The Apple company here is throwing the ball to M$...

If only those companies played their supposed roles as good as they are playing tennis  

Here in Greece the Mac market would be at a much better position than the one currently is: Living Dead


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## hulkaros (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dracolich _
> *Some days ago I saw the offering for a Giove PC (a well esteemed brand here in Italy, been around for years):
> 
> P4 3.06 HT
> ...



After a second reading I thought I would add this to the equation of Giove PC versus Dual Mac:
-No FireWire800
-No one-move-only-to-open-the-box
-No 64bit PCIs
-No dual CPUs (I would chose ANY day an Athlon MP 2200 over this punny 3GHz HT beast)
-No ADC/DVI combo (hey I love Apple's way of handling displays  )
-No Windows XP Pro (or should I say OS X  )
-No 10/100/1000 network
-No similar apps to iLife
-No other apps similar to the rest of the iApps
-No similar tools to OS X developers tools

And also, not taking in account the general quality of the Giove PC system, one should compare a Mac to an IBM or any other similar PC...

Just food for thought and not anything else  Take care!


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## dracolich (Jan 29, 2003)

> Office X is a Microsoft product. That means that the responsibility for Office X lies solely with Microsoft and none with Apple.



The point was that Apple Mktg people here didn't even think to (or weren't allowed to) change the Office X part of the promotional leaflet: I know it is all Microsoft responsability.


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## kendall (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *...your way of handling things around here! And if your excuse is drinking that kool-aid of yours, quit drinking...
> 
> Your organism cannot handle it
> ...



congrats hulkaros, youre the basis of a new Next Generation Apple User Profiles (iProfiles)

http://www.pezagency.com/apple/profiles.html

youre an iHole!   i dont think i need to define that for you do i? 

next time i see MacLuv, hopefully we can get the profiles updated and your section added.

keep up the good work my iHole friend!


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## stealth (Jan 29, 2003)

and u kendall .are a hardcore WINDOWS XP ROCK SOLID EDiTION USer hahahaaahah that has no experience or any good points to backup his irrational provoking ideas  

congrats my frined. UR VERY ROCK SOLID... hahahahhaah... next time i see Bill Gates ill tell him to buy u for any XP add  im sure that ur ROCK SOLID IDEAS is just what MS needs. and just what we dont need around here.. hint hint..


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## ex2bot (Jan 29, 2003)

PC Mag in its review of the Dual 1.25 mHz Power Mac suggested that it compared favorably in their application testing to a 3 gHz Pentium system, except when they tested Photoshop. . . 

And of course Mac Photoshop blew the peecee away.

I can't imagine that the dual 1.42s compare unfavorably to a 2+ or 3 gHz Pentium 4 machine. 

Especially with our favorite operating system. 

BTW, they didn't mention anything about excessive noise, PROBABLY BECAUSE PC users are used to it.


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## thisbechuck (Jan 29, 2003)

Does anyone have any idea of when the ATI Radeon 9700 will be an option for the new PMacs (instead of just "available soon")?


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## kendall (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *and u kendall .are a hardcore WINDOWS XP ROCK SOLID EDiTION USer hahahaaahah that has no experience or any good points to backup his irrational provoking ideas
> 
> congrats my frined. UR VERY ROCK SOLID... hahahahhaah... next time i see Bill Gates ill tell him to buy u for any XP add  im sure that ur ROCK SOLID IDEAS is just what MS needs. and just what we dont need around here.. hint hint.. *




was i addressing you?  are you just some little chump that slides in on someone elses coat tails getting into conversations you dont belong?  do you want to be an iHole to?  i think theres an age limit.  maybe you could be an iHole Jr?  iHole Jr and iHole Sr.    or maybe the iHole brothers from greece?  

what we dont need around here is little intolerant iHoles like yourself that are deeply prejudice against peoples whos opinions and ideas differ from your own.  your intolerance of others really makes belonging to a mac community with other people like you embarrasing.  instead of learning from people and their experiences you put them down.  maybe one day you'll grow up but until then, you'll always be little iHole Jr to me.


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## hulkaros (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *congrats hulkaros, youre the basis of a new Next Generation Apple User Profiles (iProfiles)
> 
> http://www.pezagency.com/apple/profiles.html
> ...



Keep up the good work iSith or should I say iSith Lord?

Because if there is ANY word to describe someone who is awful without reasons, you simply raise the bar...

iSith? Nope... iSith Lord? 100%...

iXP Pro? Nope... iXP Rock Solid Edition? 100%

And as Gandalf the Gray said to Saruman the White: "When did you abandon wisdom for madness?" or something along these lines...

And I'm sure 100% Kendal that you aren't Gandalf the Gray... Guess who you really are!  

Because "friend" so far I'm providing arguments versus your provocations with drinks and holes... But, I guess you are full of them and you think that everyone is like you now, isn't it?

Oh, and stop arguing with your clothing


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## hulkaros (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kendall _
> *what we dont need around here is little intolerant iHoles like yourself that are deeply prejudice against peoples whos opinions and ideas differ from your own.  your intolerance of others really makes belonging to a mac community with other people like you embarrasing.  instead of learning from people and their experiences you put them down.  maybe one day you'll grow up but until then, you'll always be little iHole Jr to me.  *



Were you talking infront of a mirror when you were writing this or you were simply replying back at yourself as "a note to self"?


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

hahahhah
kendall u can call me what ever u want. do u think i care? 
the fact is that ur a XP ROCK SOLID PERSON  
i dont think its wrong expressing my opinions in a COMMUNITY!!!
ur experiences hardly interest me.since ur experience have made u think that XP ARE ROCK SOLID. and as we all can see, u judge macs by the very slightest experience. u just opened appleworks 2 times and u found it crap

i do learn from ppls experiences.from ppl like the HULK . or from ppl like fryke.im always glad 2 read their posts. whereas ur posts are always NEGATIVE concerning apple products . and THAT is what we dont need in a mac community  

i may be young. but i know not 2 judge somethin from first impressions <--- that is why i dont consider XP ROCK SOLID ... ahhahahahha


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## Cat (Jan 30, 2003)

In Germany there is a saying: "Der Klügere gibt nach" i.e. the smarter one yields.

It is getting a bit out of hand ... could we all _moderate_ our tones? And maybe talk about the PowerMacs ...

BTW I just noticed that now the Max storage is 4 180 GB drives instead of 4 120 GB drives. That's a lot of space...


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

yeah . and there are no more scsi disks available AT ALL .  
but 180 GB ? * 4 ? wow thats a lot of space  he he he ! 
aaa. and that 23inch display. its sooo WOW


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## Cat (Jan 30, 2003)

Thanks Stealth 

The PowerMacs are now dangerously close to the X-Serve:


> The 1U (1.75-inch) Xserve comes with one or two 1GHz G4 processors, 2MB of dedicated L3 cache, up to 2GB of DDR SDRAM. Plus four drive bays holding up to 480GB of internal disk space using hot-plug Apple Drive Modules, dual Gigabit Ethernet, and the complete suite of robust, standards-based network services in Mac OS X Server.


 [edited a bit]

I think the X-Serve is the next in line for an update. It will probably get the same range of processors, leaving the dual 1 GHz at the bottom and going the whole way up to the dual 1.42 at the top. Could Apple make them quads?


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

i dont think any1 can really predict the next update. after the last keynote. there were SO many rumors about new Displays and New iMac updates. and hardly any powermac rumours.
in general all rumours were very different... 

and apple surprised us again with these updates.i thnk 

but quad macs.. hmmm interesting


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## Jason (Jan 30, 2003)

Public Warning to Stealth, Hulkaros and Kendall (yes you too)

Stop with the name calling and personal attacks or the thread gets closed. Treat each other nicely now


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

my name is stealth. not Stealth  very important mistake over there  and i wasnt attackin any1. if i was. it would be very clear


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## fryke (Jan 30, 2003)

stealth: Jason was quite clear about it, I think.

Please keep topics on track, all of us (yes, I'm including myself...).


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *stealth: Jason was quite clear about it, I think.
> 
> Please keep topics on track, all of us (yes, I'm including myself...). *



i know he was bein clear. i was just makin a dumb comment bout my name so that the atmosphere becums a litle more positive

as for keepin topics on track. sumtimez its a bit difficult. even if there are no arguments. they may shift off to another subject. i dont think thats a problem


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## Cat (Jan 30, 2003)

> the new Power Mac G4 desktop system with the dual 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor configuration hits speeds of 21 gigaflops


How exactly do they calculate those ratings (benchmark or theory)? I mean with the MHz myth and all ... what does it mean to say a computer has a performance of up to 21 gigaflops? 

Is this an accurate figure of the overall performance of a computer?


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

isnt Gigaflops how many calculations it can do per second? or somethin like that? 

i really dont know much about this. maybe someone else can tell us


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## Cat (Jan 30, 2003)

From Apple.com





> What makes a supercomputer super is its ability to execute at least one billion floating-point operations per second, a staggering measure of speed known as a gigaflop.



What I don't know is whether this is a good indication of the overall perfomance, or only limited to very specific tasks. Moreover I would like to know whether this figure is theoretic or actually obtained through any kind of benchmark.

(I wonder how that $ 400,- Dull would perform... )


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## chevy (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *isnt Gigaflops how many calculations it can do per second? or somethin like that?
> 
> i really dont know much about this. maybe someone else can tell us *



A megaflop is one million floating point operations per second. This has no meaning if you do not describe the floating point precision.

They are more precise benchmarks, like Drystone and Wetstone, with identification of the exact standard with a year. This qualifies how well the processor computes (fixed precision or floating). And of course the only real benchmark, is runing an application !


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## stealth (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *...And of course the only real benchmark, is runing an application ! *



depends on how well the app is optimized with ur OS . right?


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## chevy (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by stealth _
> *depends on how well the app is optimized with ur OS . right? *



No.

I explain: I shall use only existing applications, therefore if the optimization is bad or good is not my point. My point is how fast can I realize what I want to realize.

If the application is well written and the CPU is slow it is the same for me as a not so optimized  application on a faster CPU.


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## pitchblack (Jan 30, 2003)

You mean 10.2.4 on friday and iLife on saturday


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## hulkaros (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *Public Warning to Stealth, Hulkaros and Kendall (yes you too)
> 
> Stop with the name calling and personal attacks or the thread gets closed. Treat each other nicely now  *



AND the Mac community in general, too 

Because it seems some people around here don't even care about the "Mac" part and instead of arguing they JUST acting funny...

Personally, I wasn't attacking... Instead I was DEFENDING myself AND the Mac people around here in general from sneaky posts 



Ok, lets treat each other AND the Mac community nicely + with RESPECT


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## Jason (Jan 30, 2003)

there we go hulk, thats the spirit!

did you know you are about to become a movie star?


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## Langley (Jan 30, 2003)

Let's get this (what started as) interesting forum back on track hey!


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## Stridder44 (Jan 30, 2003)

Eh? 1.42Ghz is nice...but its no PPC 970!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA! (joking) But when is the PPC970 supposed to come out? I mean, the G4 is great and all, but its still the same 10 year old architechure...it cant really handle DDR Ram. Dont get me wrong tho, the G4 is still damn fast!


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## hulkaros (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jason _
> *there we go hulk, thats the spirit!
> 
> did you know you are about to become a movie star?  *



Yep! But they insist on writing my name wrong: HULK... Hey, my name is Hulkaros! 

Anyways, I like Mr.Ang Lee so I'll not smash him and who knows maybe people will like my fake name better 

And do I look ok when I throw that tank across the desert on the trailer? I told them to throw it up to the stars but they insisted not to do so because then they should rename the movie Star Wars Attack of the Hulk


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## hulkaros (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Stridder44 _
> *Eh? 1.42Ghz is nice...but its no PPC 970!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA! (joking) But when is the PPC970 supposed to come out? I mean, the G4 is great and all, but its still the same 10 year old architechure...it cant really handle DDR Ram. Dont get me wrong tho, the G4 is still damn fast! *



We don't have any real data on 970 coming to Macs (and if so, when) and also don't count out Motorola's offerings!  

And who knows? Maybe even AMD's CPUs could be alternatives


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## Cat (Jan 31, 2003)

> They are more precise benchmarks, like Drystone and Wetstone, with identification of the exact standard with a year. This qualifies how well the processor computes (fixed precision or floating).



Do I understand you correctly that this would only check the performance of the processor? Or does it measure the performance of the entire HW architecture (including RAM, busses, cache, etc.)?
Does this imply that there actually is a way to _objectively_ compare performances of different architectures (ruling out subjective statements like "it seems snappier" and "OS X is better than XP")?


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