# Native FTP program?



## bighairydog (Nov 29, 2001)

Hi, anyone know a good ftp program under OSX? I'm sick of booting classic just to upload a file.

It would need to be able to upload, download and chmod files.

Ta

Bernie     )


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## swizcore (Nov 29, 2001)

There are a few options you could pursue here.
 1. Use Transmit. its simple and works and the new beta doesn't crash like the current final does alot. It may be had from 

http://www.panic.com/index-l.html
The same company that makes Audion

2. You could use Interarchy which sets up FTP disks on your desktop of your remote files. This is cool cause you can work on a whole website locally then upload (synchronize function) whenever you wish. The one draw back I have had with this app is that if it is synching and a network bottleneck occurrs it may upload an empty document. This is very annoying so i have stuck with the Sites function within Golive until Interarchy can fix this.

http://www.interarchy.com/


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## Chris Belwinds (Nov 29, 2001)

You may want to try one of the following:

a) SecureFTP 

b) Transit 

I cannot find the URLs at the moment. Sorry.


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## swizcore (Nov 29, 2001)

Hey Chris, how are the GUI's on these apps?
Thanks


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

it now costs money ( the edu cost is cheap ) but the classic fetch is now osx compliant

http://www.fetchsoftworks.com/

for a free trial.
It works for me. But I will admit to not being a power ftp user so maybe someone could offer the pros and cons of these different apps.


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## joecrow (Nov 29, 2001)

type 'ftp' in the terminal to use the builtin ftp client.  for a list of available commands type '?'.

it does just about everything... and you can tell it what file to upload by dragging the file onto the terminal window (which puts the files location on the current line).

-JoeCrow


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## Javintosh (Nov 29, 2001)

funny you should ask this...

I FTP *a lot* (at least I like to think that I do  ) while creating web sites.

I have been using Anarchie until (IMHO) it went to the toilet in v4.0 while at the same time getting very expensive ($45). With version 5, they have added more features that I do not need.

Mostly, I got ticked-off when I realized that I could no longer download older versions of their FTP program.

I started looking for a new FTP program, but I did not seem to be able to find anything that I really liked, so I started looking more rigorously at the thing that I would like in a program and then I started trying different programs.

Below are the notes that I've written to myself so far:
Note: Nothing is as good as Anarchie 3.8, but even classic is getting long in the tooth for me.  

I mostly write about problems. If there is no feedback for a particular feature, that means is appears to work.

Things that I need in an FTP client:
1. Speed - escpecially, uploading/downloading several hundred very small files.
2. Ability to quickly list directories with thousands of files
3. Ability to edit files in remote server using BBEdit (and have FTP client upload updated files as I save them in BBEdit)
4. Ability to set file permissions and ability to set upload permission defaults
5. Ability to rename remote files.
6. Ability to create remote directories.
7. Ability to delete remote files and directories (including recirsive delete).
8. Drag and Drop for both upload and download.
9. Ability to turn off display of local files.
10. Keyboard navigation, including the ability to open in same window or new window at will (by changing modifier keys).

Apps:

Transmit:
1. Major - When saving files in BBEdit, Transmit crashes when trying to upload file
2. positive - download speed of many small files is very good
3. Minor but annoying - delete key jumps selection to top of list and forward delete key jumps to the end of list
4. Minor - if BBEdit and BBedit Classic are installed, editing a file will launch BBEdit lite.
5. Minor - if uploading files and editing a file at the sam time, Transmit crashes after I save the edited file (and the upload from transmit begins)
Not as fast as RBrowser, but it feels more responsive when navigating.
Bottom Line: Most likely candiate to use as an OS X native FTP client, but current bugs will limit usefullness. Also, GUI wastes more space than I would like. With so many other classic apps, Anarchie is still better choice for the moment.

Fetch:

NetFinder:

RBrowser:
1. Major - no drag and drop support - cannot hide local files because cannot upload/download without that display
2. positive - finder-like renaming
3. Minor - selecting a folder via arrow keys in keyboard open the folder (list view)
4. Major - no real support for BBEdit (does not auto upload changed files)
5. Major - Have to navigate into user directory to access the desktop\
6. positive - acceptable speed
7. positive - when you return to an FTP site, it remembers where you were at last
8. Very aggravating minor - cannot select or drag and drop files by name as it automatically enters into the renaming mode

Hefty FTP:
1. Minor - Has same funny bug with colored text as File Fetcher.
2. Major - No useful drag and drop (it seems as if drag and drop returns a session log)
3. Major - Cannot hide local file display
4. Major - cannot hide session transcript
5. Major - Have to navigate into user directory to access the desktop
6. Major - No facility to easily setting remote permission
7. major - no support for BBEdit
8. Minor - speed very slow
9. Major - takes huge amounts of screen space (especially when considering that there is no feedback unless the queue window is open)

File Fetcher:
1. Minor - Has that funny bug in which text looks all funky colors (I read in another thread that this is a bug in RealBasic).
2. Major - No support for BBEdit editing
3. Critical - Hangs if I open it and switch to another application and switch back to FielFetcher.

Gideon:
1. Major - No drag and drop support
2. Major - Could not make folder on remote system
3. Major - Could not use popup path for navigation (afterwards I could not navigate into subfolders)
4. - Critical - Crashed when I tried to download files


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

now that was what i would call a pretty thorough answer. I'm still puzzled that you didn't review fetch or netfinder. does this mean you haven't evaluated them yet or that you simply find nothing really good or bad? You said no comment means it works. I would really like to know how my fetch stacks up against the others. I know i don't need all those features yet, but still I'd like to know. actually, the more i think about it, i believe my fetch was free. I remember them telling me i could freely distribute it to others at school. All i had to do was send in a jpeg version of my school id to get the registration code.
Regardless, that was an excellent post of information javintosh!! Certainly others should benefit from the research you have done and shared.


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## Javintosh (Nov 29, 2001)

I haven't looked at Fetch or NetFinder yet.

I will most likely get around to it today. I start school in 4 days and want to get this whole FTP client thing settled before I get really busy  with school and work (I heard we might go on "voluntary" overtime at work starting Dec 1 ).  

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Javintosh (Nov 29, 2001)

I just finished looking at NetFinderX and Fetch (and a little more at Transmit).

I could not do the upload test on Fetch (150 very small files). I got an OpenTransport error and could not upload all files. Fetch was the only program that choked on the upload.

Right now I plan on waiting to see what happens to the bugs in Transmit and NetFinderX. Unlike Transmit, NetFinder X does not let you turn off the delete confirmation screen (neither does fetch) and that really dirves me up a wall. Then again, transmit does not have a keyboard shortcut for deleting files. The status panel on fetch bug me too much. 

Fetch, Transmit and NetFinderX are definitely the apps to watch. Until more apps are native Anarchie will do.  

My ideal FTP client would pull the positive features from all 3 apps and implement my original wish list flawlessly.  

Anyhow, here's the info on fetch, netfinder and transmit updates:

Things that I need in an FTP client:
1. Speed - escpecially, uploading/downloading several hundred very small files.
2. Ability to quickly list directories with thousands of files
3. Ability to edit files in remote server using BBEdit (and have FTP client upload updated files as I save them in BBEdit)
4. Ability to set file permissions and ability to set upload permission defaults
5. Ability to rename remote files.
6. Ability to create remote directories.
7. Ability to delete remote files and directories (including recirsive delete).
8. Drag and Drop for both upload and download.
9. Ability to turn off display of local files.
10. Keyboard navigation, including the ability to open in same window or new window at will (by changing modifier keys).

Apps:
Note about speed - Fetch, Transmit and NetFinder all displayed 1,900 files in just a few seconds. Download speeds for all these apps were also virtually identical.

Stability Note - Gideon, Fetch, Transmit, NetFinder all crashed at least one. Most times it was when doing specific things you would not do very often if at all (except for Transmit and BBEdit uploads). In any case, it is annoying to remember not to do certain things to prevent the browser from crashing.

NetFinder:
1. Minor - preferences are still under Edit menu
2. future positive - preference to put a file's URL in comment which does not work!!! (most missed feature from IE - IE would put a picture's URL in its comment when you dragged and dropped the picture into the finder. The OSX version no longer does this.)
3. minor but annoying - no option to not display delete confirmation
4. positive - best keyboard navigation
5. positive - least screen waste of any program
6. positive - new connection URL autocomplete
7. very positive - if you hold down the option key while uploading via drag and drop, you will get a dialog where you can set the upload options for that upload. This also works for setting one time download options.
8. positive - preference to keep connection from timing out
9. Minor - if already logged into site, cannot open a new window to site by selecting a new connection
10. Minor - will overwrite folders in finder if names conflict
11. minor - no preference to not display delete confirmation dialog box

Fetch:
1. Minor but very annoying - you have two choices to see upload/download progress: 1. a space-wasting side panel 2. nothing
2. Minor - even with status panel closed, wastes some screen space (about as much as Transmit)
3. positive - can change upload/download options on a per window basis
4. positive - can keep connections alive
5. Major - no option to set upload permission preferences
6. minor - will not overwrite folders in finder even if pref is set to overwrite
7. minor - no way to turn off file delete warning
8. Major!! - got open transport error when uploading 150 files - had to upload files in batches - uploaded about 100 files first time, 29 files second time and 35 files third time - no other app had problems with this test. Had to use another client to reupload all 150 files.
9. minor, but annoying - file renaming is done via dialog box (top beef with anarchie)

Transmit:
1. Major - When saving files in BBEdit, Transmit crashes when trying to upload file
2. positive - download speed of many small files is very good
3. Minor but annoying - delete key jumps selection to top of list and forward delete key jumps to the end of list
4. Minor - if BBEdit and BBedit Classic are installed, editing a file will launch BBEdit Classic. - Can workaround by launching BBEdit X beforehand.
5. positive - ability to set duplicate name behavior (overrite/new name/etc.) independently for upload/download
6. minor but annoying - after cconnection times out the window will go back to the initial login screen, after reconnecting the window will display initial directory (anarchie would display window contents after timeout and reconnect automatically with previous login info if user initiated any FTP action)
7. Major - try to keep connection preference does not work (which makes #7 worse and might also make BBEdit autoupdates difficult)
8. positive - preference to not display delete confirmation dialog
9. minor but very annoying - no keyboard shortcut to delete files


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

great work, thanks!!  very informative way of presenting it. some of the things that matter to you are very unimportant to me. But you made the descriptions in such a way that it was pretty easy to evaluate. I actually like not being able to disable delete confirmation as it keeps me from making stupid mistakes. I still end up trashing things i don't want to even with it enabled. I recently lost about 2 months worth of emails because i wasn't paying enough attention to a confirmation dialogue.  upload and downloads rarely take me long so status is not normally an issue. i am so used to watching my little dog run that I have grown fond of him over the years. I don't think i have ever had a crash like you describe but then i have never uploaded more than 20-30 files at once. Sounds like it could be a big issue for big websites with constant updates. Since one of my favorite uses for ftp is to more effienciently download large files, the ability to maintain connection and finish the job is very important to me. again thanks, people should be able to make some very informed explorations of their own based upon the info you have given us!!


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## Chris Belwinds (Nov 30, 2001)

Here's where you can download Transmit:

http://www.panic.com/transmit/

It might not be "perfect", but at least it's free!


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## benpoole (Nov 30, 2001)

Agree 100% with Javintosh.

I got tired of being taken to the cleaners every time Interarchy decided to download its latest version, and then start demanding money all over again... I've already paid once for Anarchie, and once for Interarchy -- I'm not going to pay again for version 5.

Luckily I found a v4 installer on a CD at home... and I paid for that one


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## fryke (Nov 30, 2001)

... if you're looking for software, go check http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx before buggin the community. 

but now that you've asked, I'm using Fetch 4.01, and it works almost flawlessly. for small stuff I use the Terminal (normal UNIX ftp command).


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## butre (Nov 30, 2001)

I have used secureftp and monica (url copy and paste)

I hate monica but quite like secureftp.

I would now want to pay for something simple like an ftp client,

my 2p worth

butre


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## bighairydog (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *... if you're looking for software, go check http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx before buggin the community.
> 
> 
> ...


True, but the mot useful resourse is the community's opinion - something that you don't get as well with versiontracker. Thanks Javintosh by the way, very useful...

Bernie     )


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## kilowatt (Nov 30, 2001)

seriously, though, sftp and ftp have NEVER crashed on me. They work flawlessly. It may also be possable to use os x's network browser with ftp://host/ url's. It worked in 9 (but it did suck!)


If anyone wants me to post a small faq/howto on using sftp and ftp from the command line, please post and I will.

Oh, and under windows xx, you can usually find 'add/remove ftp locations' under any save/open dialog... windows still sucks, though.


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## Javintosh (Nov 30, 2001)

I would normally not pay for an FTP app, but I FTP a lot. I also need BBEdit integration and I need to move around in a hurry to several different places (cmd-up and cm-down is much faser than cd /folder and cd .., especially if I can type a partial folder name and have the selection jump around - something both NetFinder and Transmit do). Also, drag and drop upload/download can't be beat.

But back to MacOS X. I am disappointed at the network integration in OS X. I mean, it is great that we can browse AppleTalk network from finder windows and the dialog boxes, but I was expecting more. Specificallt:

1. To the able to browse Windows networking (workgroups, domains and even active directories) like appletalk networks. 

BTW> What is that Local Networks thing supposed to do anyway? All it does is show me my own computer 4 times!

and also, I added a neighborhood to my list of services but it does not do anything! Anyone know what that is *supposed* to do?

back to the list...  

2. To be able to browse FTP servers like I do AppleTalk servers. I figured, I would to be able to save FTP favorites so that I could browse to them like AppleTalk servers.

3. To be able to browse WebDAV servers (not just iTools) as mentioned in #2.

4. To be able to browse NFS servers (which would be great at work) as described in #2. I also would like to use other directory services that are more typical to NFS networking, but that's more icing on the take than anything else. We have a lot of Solaris at work which I know is probably not typical.

5. To be able to share folders using Samba. Would it kill them to install thing and write a prefPanel GUI for the config? I know about Samba Server Config Tool, but that's all the more reason to include it in the OS.

It is hard for MacOS (any version) to make inroads in business when interacting with Microshaft's Winblows clients is such a pain!

phew, I am tired now. I think I need another Rantarade.  

BTW> Thanks for all the great feedback.


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