# Oh Caffeine, How I need Thee



## Perseus (Oct 4, 2005)

Ok, so I tried to go off Coke, Pepsi and the like (I don't drink Coffee, Jolt, Red Bull (although thought about it)), and I think I am having Coke withdrawal! I was able to go seven days without a can of coke (basically my average intake a day) before I started to get headaches and was really aching for a Coke! I had to have one.  

I mean, coffee smells so good but when I tried it, it tasted nasty!  ::ha:: 

What do you fancy? Starbucks? Dunkin' Donuts? Peet's? other? 

Are there any cool European Colas that I could try? I just love my soda...


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## Mikuro (Oct 4, 2005)

If it took you a week to get headaches, I think it's all in your head (err...you know what I mean). I don't think it ever takes a whole week for withdrawal symptoms to kick in.

Years ago, I drank several liters of Coke every day. Eventually I decided that was a liiiittle bit too much (y'think?!?), so I quit altogether. Headaches and sleeplessness kicked in immediately and lasted about a week.

Nowadays I let myself drink a little caffeine, but not on a daily basis. And usually when I do, I have a "caffeine hangover" the next day (which usually consists of bad sleep, headaches, and high irritability). I seem to be much more sensitive to it now than I ever was before.

As for how I get my fix, it used to be 99% Coke. These days I drink mostly caffeine-free Coke, and when I want caffeine I usually drink Cherry Pepsi. Coffee just disgusts me.


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## RGrphc2 (Oct 4, 2005)

I used to be like you Mikuro, drank about 2 Liter bottle of Pepsi a day...I cut back the caffeine big time and i was able to sleep better and i stopped having acne break outs, i drink now more water than anything else, and i drink (on the occasion) a Regular Coffee from Dunkin' Donuts, not that flavored stuff. Just cream and sugar, i used to hate coffee too, but you just have to explore with what you like it in.  

Try coffee black, then put sugar in it or if you don't like it sweet just try cream

Dunkin Donuts is the best for the price, Starbucks is too damn much for the size,  what is it now $3.00 for a Tall cup of coffee (16 oz).  For 3 Bucks at Dunkin Dounts you can get the great one which is 36 oz of Coffee...woo!!!      

Starbucks seems to be always stale when and if i buy it...


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## JetwingX (Oct 5, 2005)

grande Caramel Frapachino from Starbucks (it isn't hot, but it tastes Really good)


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## mdnky (Oct 5, 2005)

Perseus said:
			
		

> I think I am having Coke withdrawal! I was able to go seven days without a can of coke (basically my average intake a day) before I started to get headaches and was really aching for a Coke! I had to have one.   ..... Are there any cool European Colas that I could try? I just love my soda...



A lot harder to quit now than in the original days of Coke, when the coke actually stood for the main ingredient back then...cocaine.  And yes, I actually meant it's harder now than then.  Caffeine is one of the most addictive substance out there.  It's in the same alkaloid as nicotine, morphine and cocaine...but is the most addictive, most common, and the only one not regulated in some manner...go figure.

Instead of trying to quit totally, take a few weeks to do it and keep the intake random, yet stepping down gradually.  It should get rid of the withdrawal symptoms.  Or you can deal with the withdraw for about a week and you should be fine afterwards.


I'm fine in the morning as long as I have my Coca-Cola...can even do without the cigarette.  Take away the coke and then there's he|| to pay.


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## jonparadise (Oct 5, 2005)

MMmmmm, coffee.

I gave up this time last year. Got rotten headaches for about 8 days, then it cleared up. Didn't feel any better in the long run. So I started again.

My workmates were pleased when I started again, as I was 'a bloody miserable bastard' when I kicked the habit.


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## mw84 (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm usually on the Red Bull when I need to stay awake, I don't really have much caffeine otherwise though. Coffee is rank and I'm usually drinking water or pineapple juice instead of fizzy things. The new diet coke with lime is pretty nice though.


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## ksv (Oct 6, 2005)

Espresso. Thanks to Italy for excellent coffee culture 

It's obviously stronger than plain coffee, but personally I think it has a much rounder aroma. A little cup of concentrated coffee is far more drinkable than the washing water-like stuff you get served as "coffee" in most places.


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## nixgeek (Oct 6, 2005)

Aaaahhh yes.  The caffeine withdrawal headaches.  My wife and I go through that when we don't get our usual morning and afternoon coffees.  Sucks how that. 

Anyways, I definitely prefer Dunkin Donuts coffee to StarBucks anyday.  Tastes better and is cheaper too.   Heck, even Burger King coffee is good.  Just the smell of it triggers the endorphines.   As for McDonald's coffee, I would rather drink my own urine 3 days old before I touch that drek.  

Oh, and whenever I visit my parents I have myself some Argentine _maté_.  Maybe I should just switch to that and drop the coffee altogether.


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## spb (Oct 7, 2005)

ksv said:
			
		

> Espresso. Thanks to Italy for excellent coffee culture
> 
> It's obviously stronger than plain coffee, but personally I think it has a much rounder aroma. A little cup of concentrated coffee is far more drinkable than the washing water-like stuff you get served as "coffee" in most places.



Espresso is also my drink of choice.  When I move to a town the first thing I do is sample the local shops to find one that produces decent espresso.  For every 10-20 shops there is usually one that makes a good espresso.  This isn't so important since we got out Gaggia at home, but it is good to know the shops near work.  

KSV, how does the coffee in Norway compare to Denmark?  Three years ago I spent just short of a month in Denmark.  It seemed that the coffee was awful, but nearly every shop made good espresso.  Compared to the US good espresso was easier to find but good coffee was not.  Of course I don't think that the Danes needed coffee as a stimulant since nicotine is both available and acceptable.  :7)

--
sb


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## fryke (Oct 8, 2005)

When I get up, I drink a ristretto or two. Over the course of the day, it's about 2 to 2.5 litres of Pepsi Max (that's Pepsi One in the US, I believe) and about another two espressi. There are days when I drink no Caffeine at all, and I don't get anything like headache or sleeplessness.

Btw.: No such thing as "good coffee" in the US or Germany. It's like a paradoxon. You'll maybe find a good espresso in some Italian or French Café, but if you ever let water dribble slowly through a filter, the taste is killed right away (and various poisons only get added to the coffee _this_ way...).


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## spb (Oct 8, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Btw.: No such thing as "good coffee" in the US or Germany. It's like a paradoxon. You'll maybe find a good espresso in some Italian or French Café, but if you ever let water dribble slowly through a filter, the taste is killed right away (and various poisons only get added to the coffee _this_ way...).



The first coffee shop I used to frequent (1993 or 4) was in Ames, Iowa, USA, called "Joe to Go".  Whey you ordered a coffee they brought a french press to you.  This was great service.  They went out of business in less than a year.  

In 1997 Santa Fe Espresso opened in Ames.  The coffee was awful and the ambiance poor, but they timed the espresso pours so that it fell within the gourmet standard.  They really had amazing espresso.  The only shop that I've found that offers better quality is the original Peets on the corner of Walnut and Vine in Berkeley.


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## ksv (Oct 8, 2005)

spb said:
			
		

> KSV, how does the coffee in Norway compare to Denmark?  Three years ago I spent just short of a month in Denmark.  It seemed that the coffee was awful, but nearly every shop made good espresso.  Compared to the US good espresso was easier to find but good coffee was not.  Of course I don't think that the Danes needed coffee as a stimulant since nicotine is both available and acceptable.  :7)
> 
> --
> sb



Seems that Norwegian and Danish coffee culture is similar. "Coffee" is a synonym for tasteless mud water. Not every shop has good espresso, though. Decent, but not _good_.
There are two cafés in town that I frequent, one has the best chocolate cake (on earth!), the other the best espresso.



			
				fryke said:
			
		

> There are days when I drink no Caffeine at all, and I don't get anything like headache or sleeplessness.



I cut the caffeine some days just to prove to myself I'm not completely addicted.



			
				fryke said:
			
		

> Btw.: No such thing as "good coffee" in the US or Germany. It's like a paradoxon. You'll maybe find a good espresso in some Italian or French Café, but if you ever let water dribble slowly through a filter, the taste is killed right away (and various poisons only get added to the coffee _this_ way...).



Ah yes, in genuine Italian and French cafés, you actually get what you're asking for. I do miss Parisian cafés and look forward to the next Apple Expo or developer meeting 8)


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## ksv (Oct 11, 2005)




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## CaptainQuark (Oct 11, 2005)

ksv said:
			
		

> Espresso. Thanks to Italy for excellent coffee culture



(I'm gonna get myself in trouble with the Italians here!)

The Italians make, without a doubt, the best coffee machines in the world. But they only come in second place when it comes to making coffee on 'em!

Who's in 1st Place?

*The Spanish*  best coffee in the world!  ::love::


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## CaptainQuark (Oct 11, 2005)

PS. Svenskt kaffe är också äckligt!


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## ksv (Oct 11, 2005)

CaptainQuark said:
			
		

> PS. Svenskt kaffe är också äckligt!



Tviler ikke


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## fryke (Oct 14, 2005)

Ah. Now I need to make an espresso. DON'T post these pictures, I'll drink too many espressi per day!!


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## GNoME (Oct 14, 2005)

cappaccino fan myself


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## chemistry_geek (Oct 16, 2005)

A Lesson From Personal Experience

I was drinking a full pot of coffee per day, for that last several years, of my own design that included thick viscous _leaded_ Starbucks French Roast, ground nutmeg, ground cinnamon, vanilla extract, honey, and 2% reduced fat milk until I experienced something "strange" at work one day.  I'll give the recipe for the coffee after I explain what happened.

One day after lunch I was walking back from the company cafeteria to my office and noticed that I could not see correctly out of my left eye in the region of the fovia.  I made a doctors appointment two days later and explained the symptoms to my doctor, being very specific with the size, geometry, and location of the visual anomaly in the fovia: a slightly bowed and thick horizontal line that had a downward directed sweeping/refresh rate of about 5 Hz (I used to work in Neurology at the Medical College of Ohio, specifically with EEG).  The doctor was a little concerned that a "layman" was speaking to him about symptoms in his terminology.  He asked me what I did for a living and I replied that I worked at Pfizer. He asked "what do you sell?" and I replied "I'm a scientist, not a sales consultant."  That probably had some bearing on his judgement as a patient who probably knew a little about what he was describing.  The doctor darkened the room, and examined both of my eyes, turned on the lights and asked if I had experienced any headaches recently.  I said "no".  He then inquired about my diet, asking if I drink coffee, tea, colas, etc... I said that I drink about a pot of Starbucks French Roast throughout the day.  He then asked if I had any processed food products lately, specifically egg-beaters, processed meat products, cheese, etc... I responded that I usually had a "breakfast special" most mornings as I read my email that included eggbeaters some times w/ cheese, 2 to 4 strips of bacon, and hashbrowns.  He then explained to me that I experienced a "migraine equivalent" and I immediately said that I did not experience any pain whatsoever.  The doctor said "that it why it's called a migraine equivalent - you experience all of the symptoms of a migraine headache except the pain."  He then gave me a printed list of food products "to stay away from" that can cause these symptoms.  He told me to stop my coffee intake completely for two weeks and I should feel pretty good without it.  It was somewhat difficult not drinking coffee for a month and a half.  I quite drinking coffee that day.  For four days my brain was in a fog the likes of which I have never experienced - I was concerned I had brain damage (mild stroke?) because "things seemed different."  After two weeks I was pretty much back to feeling normal - no brain fog/haze.  Since that time I resumed drinking my precious leaded coffee, though I usually have only two large cups per day (Pfizer has a contracted company serve Starbucks coffee and other goodies in little stations throughout it's R&D facilites, though it's no match for my personal blend).  

In researching Pfizer's digital library, I have learned a little about caffeine and it's effects on the body.  In excess amounts, like I was taking in, it can have mild to moderate side effects, visual anomalies included.  Your body builds up a tolerance to caffeine, and over time requires more to get the buzz or "get you going" and then the side effects start happening when the increased caffeine concentration starts affecting other processes in your body.

Caffeine increases insulin production, very bad for people who are hypoglycemic (low blood sugar due to innate increased insulin production), like me.  So having low blood sugar, I shouldn't be ingestiing an insulin producing stimulant - bad, very bad because your pancreas has a limited lifetime of producing insulin before it cannot perform that function anymore, leading to adult-onset diabetes.

Just thought I'd share an experience.

My coffee recipe:

1/3 cup Starbucks French Roast in your coffee maker.
1 Tspn ground cinnamon (in the coffee pot/carafe)
1 Tspn ground nutmeg (in the coffee pot/carafe)
1/3 to 1/2 cup vanilla extract

In your coffee mug:
1/8 to 1/4 cup honey
coffee
1/4 cup milk

Honey was chosen as the sweetener because of three reasons: I'm hypoglycemic, honey has complex carbohydrates that are more friendly to hypoglycemics/diabetics, and honey is loaded with vitamins and minerals.  Ground cinnamon (not the extract) in any food has a molecular mimic for insulin.  It was recently accidentally that consuming about 1 tspn of ground cinnamon (not the extract) can alleviate some diabetic/hypoglycemic symptoms.


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## Perseus (Oct 16, 2005)

Chemistry_geek, wow, your story is a bit alarming to me. I am myself hypoglycemic, and drink Coke/Pepsi quite frequently. I have at least 2 cans or 1 bottle maybe even 2 bottles (not the huge liter ones) per day. 

Could it potentially destroy my pancreas? If what you say is true, I do not want my hypoglycemia to turn into diabetes.  I am willing to put the effort in to quitting soda. I felt that if I had one can every now and then that should be OK, but I always feel like crap after I have soda, yet, I still have it. 

Another thing that alarms me is that I feel I experience a fairly good amount of "floaties" in my eyes, some are black (rarely) some flash white. This is freaking me out. Your post alone might be enough to get me to quit altogether.

And the days when I don't have soda, I feel better emotionally! Wierd. I am working towards a better diet, because hypoglycemia can be pretty serious.   Are you still drinking coffee?


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## chemistry_geek (Oct 16, 2005)

Pereus,

Yes, you seem to have some of the symptoms of hypoglycemia.  I no longer drink sugar colas except for Coke Classic maybe 6 times a year - I can't handle the sleepy/drowsy feeling for 2 hours afterward very well.  I too have the black floaties, and once in a while I see the white flashes.  Eyes don't handle low sugar or high sugar very well.  Most hypoglycemics become diabetic later in life.  That's why I have the cinnamon in my diet. Read about it here:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4413

If you are interested in discussing this more and would like some heavy-duty reading material on the subject, send me a private message or contact me at jbel32@yahoo.com.


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## fryke (Oct 16, 2005)

But always keep in mind that worrying too much in your life is probably the _worst_ you can do to your mind and body.


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## Perseus (Oct 16, 2005)

Fryke, I agree, and I don't feel I am worrying so much as taking action. Hypoglycema/diabetes is serious, as are other conditions, and by taking the right action, I can, as well as chemistry_geek, lead healtheir lives.

Do you have any conditions? Or are you perfect?


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## CaptainQuark (Oct 18, 2005)

As yet another sufferer of hypoglycaemia, I'm beginning to think that it has nothing at all to do with diet. It's all about sitting too long in front of a Mac!

 

(I shall get to 1000 posts without being accused of spamming!   )


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## nixgeek (Oct 18, 2005)

Oh PLEASE don't tell me that....I would hate to have to switch back to a PC for my computing....maybe it's worth the risk to use the Mac??


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## ksv (Oct 18, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Ah. Now I need to make an espresso. DON'T post these pictures, I'll drink too many espressi per day!!



What brand of machine do you use? I have a mediocre DeLonghi capable of producing drinkable espresso, but it doesn't achieve the aroma of properly pressed espresso.
Recommendations, anyone?

Time for dessert


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## CaptainQuark (Oct 19, 2005)

Lägg av! Nu är jag kaffesugen OCH hungrig!

(Translation: Leave it out! Now I am in need of coffee AND something to eat!)


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## fryke (Oct 20, 2005)

I'm a "Nespresso" addict at home. Makes perfect espresso, although it's a bit on the expensive side with the capsule system. But I have this Italian café around the corner, where I enjoy my off-time.


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## Perseus (Nov 11, 2005)

I broke my streak of no Coke the other day...I realized that maybe its OK for me to drink caffeine sparingly, instead of not at all.  I experimented by only having Coke when I go to the movies or something....and I think this helps. 

Does chocolate have caffeine? I don't remember....cause I also love my hot chocolate  
That is the ONLY thing I'd get at Starbucks, but I never really go there...I just make my  own stuff at home, with some fine ingredients like Cinnamon. Mmmmmm.


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## nixgeek (Nov 11, 2005)

Yeah, nothing beats coffee made at home. 

I also bought some of those disposable portable coffee cups and they work great for my wife and me.

As for chocolate, it does have caffeine but I think it's only the chocolate bars that have it.  Unless you make hot chocalate "the old fashioned way", then I don't think it has caffeine.  Of course, I could be wrong.

We usually use the Swiss Miss hot cocoa mix with some hot milk and marshmallows. Mmmmm...


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## mdnky (Nov 11, 2005)

Yes chocolate has caffeine.  


```
Cup of coffee         90-150mg
Instant coffee        60-80mg
Tea                   30-70mg
Hot chocolate         5-10mg
Mate                  25-150mg
Cola                  30-45mg
Chocolate bar         30mg
Stay-awake pill       100mg
Vivarin               200mg  
Cold relief tablet    30mg
```


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## CaptainQuark (Nov 11, 2005)

I don't care _where_ I get it  as long as I GET it!  ::sleepy::


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## Perseus (Nov 11, 2005)

Even a Jolt cola?  That stuff is insane. (Jolt Gum is pretty neat too. It is great for a quick fix!)


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## CaptainQuark (Nov 11, 2005)

Haven't seen Jolt in the UK. You'll have to e-mail me a can!   

Or even better, if you drink 6 cans in one go, you'll have enough nervous energy to chuck one over to me!


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## Perseus (Nov 11, 2005)

Here you go: http://www.joltcola.com/jolt/index.html muahahaha You'll be up all night!!


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## ora (Nov 11, 2005)

At home i have this Gaggia http://www.gaggia.uk.com/tebe.htm , handles heavy use well (my friends all like my coffee so i often end up amkign lots at once), but at work i used to be in an office with 3 coffee nuts who had bought this: http://products.saeco.com/articolo.asp?id_linea=1&id_articolo=5872 . I drank sooo much coffe at that point, and my friend was on 15 espresso/day. Now i work down the hall, but i get them the coffee so i have visiting right  (Illy Gourmet 'Napoli' at teh moment) . Its the best coffee in the organisation, so there are often a couple of people hanging out there.


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## Perseus (Nov 15, 2005)

mmmmm....biscotti is so good with hot chocolate


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## CaptainQuark (Nov 15, 2005)

ora said:
			
		

> but at work i used to be in an office with 3 coffee nuts who had bought this: http://products.saeco.com/articolo.asp?id_linea=1&id_articolo=5872 . I drank sooo much coffe at that point, and my friend was on 15 espresso/day. Now i work down the hall, but i get them the coffee so i have visiting right  (Illy Gourmet 'Napoli' at teh moment) . Its the best coffee in the organisation, so there are often a couple of people hanging out there.




Where do you work? What do you do? Can I have a job there too?


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## ora (Nov 15, 2005)

CaptainQuark said:
			
		

> Where do you work? What do you do? Can I have a job there too?



Sure, why not! We are what can only be described as caffeine friendly organisation, a huge amount of the work seems to be done in the cafes over large espressos. On the job front, if you are in IT or physics and could survive in the land of fondue at cuckoo clocks, let me know!


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## CaptainQuark (Nov 15, 2005)

Don't do either, I'm afraid, but when you're ready to publish your scientific findings, you'll need a good graphics designer!


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## delsoljb32 (Nov 15, 2005)

ill take u up on that job offer! i need a job! i always wanted a cuckoo clock! 

edit: Capt'n, I agree with you on the plight of the birds, i used to keep them years ago (live in the city now, not a good environment for them IMO), I always wanted an african grey (but not at the cost of they way they are brought into the country, sickening).


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