# A look inside Jaguar



## wdw_ (May 6, 2002)

Go here:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/


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## serpicolugnut (May 6, 2002)

What the #@#@ is up with the "brushed metal" QT like skin for Sherlock 3 and Address Book? Has Apple lost their minds?


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## genghiscohen (May 6, 2002)

Interesting!  The Sherlock enhancements sound like they were "inspired" by Watson.


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## dricci (May 6, 2002)

w000t!

I love it!

Everything looks much nicer, IMHO.

The nice integration between apps is great, too.. CHECK OUT iCHAT!


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## wdw_ (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by genghiscohen _
> *Interesting!  The Sherlock enhancements sound like they were "inspired" by Watson.
> *



Almost looks stolen.


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## nkuvu (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *What the #@#@ is up with the "brushed metal" QT like skin for Sherlock 3 and Address Book? Has Apple lost their minds? *


I agree with you -- I much prefer the standard Aqua interface...


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## ddma (May 6, 2002)

> Quartz Extreme
> Jaguar dramatically improves the performance of Mac OS X with Quartz Extreme. Jaguar lets Quartz offload compositing tasks to a supported* video card, using OpenGL to accelerate the drawing and compositing of graphics. As with the benefits 3D games get from a video co-processor, the main CPU chip(s) can then focus on application-specific needs.
> That means your shadows will drop quickly, your genies will appear slicker and your transparencies will layer faster  and Mac OS X can do more processing in the background while you move the foreground.
> 
> *nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.



Is that mean my TiBook 667 still have a chance using that technology?

Btw, do you think PowerBook G4 can upgrade Video Memory from 16MB to 32MB?


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## Jasoco (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *What the #@#@ is up with the "brushed metal" QT like skin for Sherlock 3 and Address Book? Has Apple lost their minds? *



I know what you mean. When they removed it from Sherlock 2 X I fighred "Oh, the Brushed metal look is on its way out." Guess not. But I am freaking happy it's on the way!

That feature list knocked me on my as..butt.

I mean, Ink? Awesome! Now, all I need is a tablet.

JUNK MAIL FILTER! I NEED THAT! I love that "Mail thinks this message is Junk" part.

Quartz EXTREME! I'm surprised they didn't call it "Xtreme" but it's aboot time!

Sherlock 3 looks soo cool. Now I don't need to buy Watson. (Did Apple buy them or something?)

AIM CHAT? This makes me freaking happy. My friend and I use AIM all the time. I guess AOL was happy to let Apple do it so they can stop worrying about their own port of AIM? Or what?


There's only ONE thing that bugs me.. I WANT IT NOW!


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## sithious (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *I agree with you -- I much prefer the standard Aqua interface... *



absolutely - i hate that brushed metal crap ... but apart from that, it looks like 10.2 is going to be pretty cool ...


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## simX (May 6, 2002)

I'm not too fond of the brushed metal interface, but it's not that bad.  I've been using iTunes and QuickTime Player for a while and it's grown on me.  And it's just as functional as a regular aqua window (which wasn't true in OS 9 because these brushed metal windows didn't support WindowShade  with OS X they dock just as well as normal windows).

But I have to concur that Jaguar is going to ROCK.


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## nkuvu (May 6, 2002)

I'm not a fan of the brushed metal, but I don't _hate_ it.

I would like to see a _consistent_ look to the UI, though.  Especially among Apple applications.  A little brushed metal here, Aqua there, kind of makes the system look mish-mashed together.


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## Koelling (May 6, 2002)

Brushed metal was my favorite in OS 9 and before I used Aqua I was dissapointed that they didn't carry it over. But Aqua is the intuitive interface. It's also much less cluttered. 

Being able to drag an app from the edges is always nice but just go all brushed or not. What's up with the UI in iChat? YUCK.


I don't suppose anyone knows about the new integrated search, is it locate from the CLI? I would like that but some people might not because of indexing. Sure does make things fast.


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## .dev.lqd (May 6, 2002)

Is anyone going to bitch about having to pay for this update?


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## wdw_ (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by .dev.lqd _
> *Is anyone going to bitch about having to pay for this update?  *


It's worth it.


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## rharder (May 6, 2002)

*Do* we have to pay?

-Rob


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## Koelling (May 6, 2002)

> Do we have to pay?


 Don't know but you're right, it's worth it.


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## Valrus (May 6, 2002)

Does that mean the default graphics card in my iMac (check the sig for specs) won't be supported for TurboQuartz or whatever it's called? That would *piss me off*.

Other than that, though, I can't wait... 

-the valrus


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## thisbechuck (May 6, 2002)

my personal favorite improvement about the whole this is... um... damn, they all rock . I'd like to know more about iChat though, is it just AIM or yahoo too, etc...


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## genghiscohen (May 6, 2002)

Well, our slot-loading iMacs (mine is 350MHz, no DV) *do* have AGP Radeons.  But with 8MB of memory, they ain't gonna perform quite as good as the 32MB recommended video cards.


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## Steve Bosell (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by genghiscohen _
> *Well, our slot-loading iMacs (mine is 350MHz, no DV) do have AGP Radeons.  But with 8MB of memory, they ain't gonna perform quite as good as the 32MB recommended video cards.
> *



I dont think so, I am screwed with my brand new ibook too


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## Nummi_G4 (May 6, 2002)

I would fork over as much money as apple wants.  this looks like a great update.  

Just so you know.  I like the brushed metal look.  You fellas and MacAddict need to stop saying bad things about it.


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## wdw_ (May 6, 2002)

We shouldn't be saying how much we would pay to get jaguar. If it gets back to Apple, they might jack up the price.


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## fryke (May 6, 2002)

Ah, I hate it. Why are you people so angry? When you bought your Macs you weren't promised Quartz Extreme. The OS won't be out until September as it seems and it'll run very, very fine on your systems - only without this one feature. Apple *has* to make people buy new computers, right? They want money. And they *do* give you great new features and computers for it.

Don't think about Jaguar too much until it arrives, if you're already so eager to hate it on your machine. Start loving your machine and the Mac OS X of today.

I for one am looking forward to testing Jaguar builds. I might miss to see Quartz Extreme in action, but I might just buy a new PowerBook by January 2003, and *that* will be *the* great machine for Jaguar, not even the TiBook 800 will be *it*, as it has the lowest possible specs that Apple says are 'good enough' for the feature, right? I'll survive September to January.


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## vic (May 6, 2002)

i'm starting to regain my confidence in apple, they started letting me down, but mu machine is just on the border of being supported by the quartz extreme thing so i'm happy. i'm going to college so i don't know if i can afford a new computer but the dual gighz g4's sound so nide... i hope i win the lottery...


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## Steve Bosell (May 6, 2002)

I am upset because I have a computer that is a current model (600mhz iBook) with a sluggish interface that is not going to get any better.


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## Valrus (May 6, 2002)

Sorry fryke. Don't get me wrong, I'm awaiting Jaguar as eagerly as anyone, and I'm *really* happy with OS X and the fact that it runs so sweet on my 2-year-old iMac!

So just back off, man. 

Can't wait til I'm filthy rich so I can get a computer that runs OS X like it's supposed to! This little 400Mhz iMac is doing a damn good job so far, though.

-the valrus


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## jaredbkt (May 6, 2002)

For the last time try to understand this...just because Quartz Extreme will ONLY work with the proper video cards and above DOES NOT mean that older Macs won't get any new system performance enhancements, also.

Currently on my Graphite iMac 600MHz, 10.1 runs VERY fluidly and fast. Jaguar will only add to that performace. So my graphics card won't support Quartz Extreme? So what? I'll still see noticeable improvements in the UI and I'll still get the fancy animations and what-not.

I'm really looking forward to iChat and the new Mail / Address book.


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## ddma (May 6, 2002)

Maybe I have just over taken this Quartz Extreme stuff. But you know... it is hard to hear that your machine will be dropped soon but you have owned it for an month only!


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## fryke (May 6, 2002)

Hmm... Sometimes slashdot.org has real treasures among the comments... They're talking about the demise of OS 9 and the coming of Jaguar, and among the 500 or so posts there was the following anecdote I just *had* to post here for you. A slashdot user said: *Now Apple rips off the name of an old Atari product, Jaguar.*

Another slashdotter replied: *First of all, this is just a code-name. But, on that subject, did you ever hear the story of Carl Sagan's lawsuit against Apple? The Power Mac 7100 was developed under the code name "Carl Sagan," and when that worthy found out, he sent his lawyers a-calling. The Apple engineering team obligingly changed the code-name... to "butt-head astronomer."*


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## Jasoco (May 6, 2002)

Well.. I am sad that my iBook will not run Quartz Extreme. But I'm very excited about all the new features. If I could, I'd get a TiBook, but I'm not Ross Perot, Bill Gates or Bruce Wayne. So I'm settling for the cheapest laptop with a CD-RW. Yeah, it only has 8MB VRAM, but at least I'll be at MWNY. Just hope there aren't any new iBooks before the Summer's over. That way maybe I can sell it for almost what I paid and get a PowerMac.

Whatever. I am really looking forward to the iChat and Mail with AddressBook. They're all mixed together! That's cool! As Varuca Salt once said many times, "But, Daddy. I want it NOW!" And if I had her Daddy, I'd prolly HAVE 10.2... 

I can't wait!


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## Sogni (May 7, 2002)

From what I understood - the Brushed Aluminum is a overall UI *THEME*, so I would think you can chose for EVERYTHING to have the Brushed Aluminum or the Aqua look...

That or I'm just praying for my dream of REAL themes for Mac! From Apple!


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## EZX (May 7, 2002)

I just hope Apple fixes the color of the scrollbars in iTunes!

I use the 'Graphite' theme and iTunes really looks ugly being the only app with 'blue' scrollbars


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## celeborn (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tormente _
> *the Brushed Aluminum is a overall UI THEME, so I would think you can chose for EVERYTHING to have the Brushed Aluminum or the Aqua look...*



I'd very much doubt it. Have a look at the attached Jaguar screenshot, it shows iChat and Address Book windows with the Brushed Aluminum look and all the rest is Aqua.


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## AdmiralAK (May 7, 2002)

wow a lot of chatter about this 
I like the universal addressbook deal.
kinda reminds me of the newton 

so does inkwell


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## tismey (May 7, 2002)

Was just going to say - Apple can't have spent time and money developing handwriting recognition software JUST for the few people with graphics tablets, can they?


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## serpicolugnut (May 7, 2002)

is probably being implemented to counter Microsoft's upcoming "Mira" tablet PC technology. With the Handwriting recognition part of the equation, all Apple has to do is develop an wireless LCD Monitor/Pen Tablet, and they are ready to confront the Mira issue.

It'd be really cool to be sitting on the couch with a 15" LCD Pen Tablet screen, taking notes, writing out web addresses and surfing without a keyboard.

MS really wants "Mira" to be the center of the digital hub. I'm really excited to see Apple sees some benefit in the MS vision, and has upped their ante to compete with it. Now, let's just get some affordable pentablet/LCD hardware to go with it!


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## Sogni (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by celeborn _
> *
> 
> I'd very much doubt it. Have a look at the attached Jaguar screenshot, it shows iChat and Address Book windows with the Brushed Aluminum look and all the rest is Aqua. *



Oh... I missed that pic... damn - I hope they do make it a skinnable option (theme) for the entire UI. 

Kinda weird having on a few things with brushed aluminum - but at the same time it's kinda cool it gives the iApps a custom feel to them...

Oh well - I don't really care! Just give me Jaguar NOW!


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## Sogni (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *
> It'd be really cool to be sitting on the couch with a 15" LCD Pen Tablet screen, taking notes, writing out web addresses and surfing without a keyboard.
> *



Like this?
http://www.wacom.com/lcdtablets/


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## macfreak88 (May 7, 2002)

I have read the features on the Apple site and the new iapps and so forth and think it´s going to be really fun to have the new "Jaguar" in front of my screen and IT`S A LOT FASTER! . About the speed will it be faster than the previous version if i only have a Graphite iMac SE and it´s 400 mhz? will it support the new system or will i have to buy a new card to it?  

Anyway i can´t wait for the realease!


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## fryke (May 7, 2002)

Your system will be fine with Jaguar, and it *will* be faster than 10.1, which you are using now. However, your graphics card won't be able to use Quartz Extreme. And you won't be able to install a graphics card that would be able to do that in your iMac SE. So basically: Wait for it to be released, try it, then buy a new computer if it isn't enough for you.


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## satanicpoptart (May 7, 2002)

time to get a 8500 with 64 megs..... at 5 dollars an hour it will take me 60 hours to get....damnit....


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## Krevinek (May 7, 2002)

One slight comment about 10.2: Apple may have wanted to make things more clear about Quartz Extreme to people.

The reason for the 'cutoff' on the cards is the fact that older cards just can't DO some of  the features Apple wants to implement. No T&L, VERY basic 2D acceleration, and very little RAM to store the graphic data.

You aren't being left behind, the cards just can't keep up enough to get as much as a boost.


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## julguribye (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by celeborn _
> *
> 
> I'd very much doubt it. Have a look at the attached Jaguar screenshot, it shows iChat and Address Book windows with the Brushed Aluminum look and all the rest is Aqua. *



IE is still in the dock...

Another thing: Isn't it a little strange that Apple makes a program that supports AOL? (iChat)


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## dlookus (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satanicpoptart _
> *time to get a 8500 with 64 megs..... at 5 dollars an hour it will take me 60 hours to get....damnit.... *


Make that 30 hours.
This promotion actually takes the price down below what the PC version costs.
ATI Radeon 8500 promotion


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## dave17lax (May 7, 2002)

how can i find out if my card will work? 
Not just for jaguar's sake, but because I can't find anything in the system profiler.

I have a g4 dual 500
agp radeon
Is there more than one type of radeon?

Also, ever since reinstalling my os's (both 9 and x), I can't get any res higher than 1024x768. I used to be able to get up to 1280x1024. Any thoughts?

dave17lax


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## macfreak88 (May 7, 2002)

But what is really the guarts thing? is it more advanced 3d acclerator or something?


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## Krevinek (May 7, 2002)

You mean 'Quartz' not guarts.

Quartz is the Display PDF engine MacOS X uses for the windows, UI interface and so on. A fairly complex beast due to the fact that it is Display PDF. Quartz Extreme is an extension of Quartz that will debut in 10.2 which will allow certain cards to be able to take more of the load of drawing/etc. off the CPU and onto the card. One of these enhancements, which may actually affect all users, is that Quartz will use OpenGL to send data to the card, rather than its own undocumented API within IOGraphics (Which was a common set of acceleration utilities for ALL 2D/3D-capable cards, not just the ones with nice feature extensions Quartz Extreme uses like the Radeon and the GeForce 3).

This is actually a boon, since it may just simplify development of V5 3Dfx drivers by a lone hacker out there. OpenGL is easy to make a plug-in for, IOGraphics is more painful due to the lack of documentation.


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## macfreak88 (May 7, 2002)

I had heard about it but never really understood what it was...


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## BlingBling 3k12 (May 7, 2002)

About the brushed metal/aqua thing...

It doesn't matter to me... as long as they keep making cooler and better stuff!


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## Kris (May 8, 2002)

"The Finder features spring-loaded folders to aid in navigation [...]"  - And the Quartz Extreme.. sounds great!

I can't wait, but I'm a bit concerned about the price..


Kris


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## Da'iMacDaddy (May 8, 2002)

I have to say I don't really think Apple is going to use the brushed metal look ... don't ask me why it's just my opinion. I really don't like it anyway and I REALLY do hope they don't make us current OS X users pay for the damn thing or I'll be pissed. I mean it all sounds fine and dandy  but come on. Integrating AIM into the all of this? Remember Netscape? God I HATE Netscape. So slow.... anyway all this is extremely exciting ... kinda ... I am already satisfied with  Mac OS X.1.4 I have never had a problem with it ... ever.... I'm using an iMac DV 400mhz too ... and I have nothing to complain about. Everything I want is here already. OH and I do agree Apple is posing off of Watson   but hey I'm down.

Ok this post makes me sound really negative but I can say I'm glad Apple is addressing some of the problems everyone complains about having but I'm just not that excited about this one :\


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## Krevinek (May 8, 2002)

I have a feeling Apple will ask for some dough. I also want to know why people complain that they shouldn't have to pay Apple for the fairly heavy undertaking 10.2 is (about a year in the making). It is like expecting MS to give away XP Upgrades for free to 2k users. Not gonna happen.

Apple does subsidize development with hardware, yes. However, their hardware also has to cover R&D costs for their hardware. Eventually the software has to start paying for itself in some manner (QT Pro, FCP, DVD Studio, OS X, Appleworks). 

I expect Apple to pull the 20$ S&H thing again, but without the free walk-in upgrade packages.


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## simX (May 8, 2002)

As serpi said in one of his other posts, "bank on it" being a full-price paying upgrade.  With iChat, Quartz Extreme, QuickTime 6, all the Finder improvements, Inkwell, TRUE Universal Access, and general optimization, it's worth the $129/$99 that Apple decides to charge for it.

Just think of it this way: if Apple decides to give a price break to existing OS X users (which it might), you're just getting a discount!


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## ddma (May 8, 2002)

For $99/129, would I get the QuickTime 6 Pro?


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## Krevinek (May 9, 2002)

For some reason I keep getting the deep, depressing urge to say:

_The feeling that instant and free gratification is a right consumers are entitled to from a company is at an all time high._

No offense or insult intended, but I do keep wanting to say that... I keep wondering if the consumers haven't gotten as blinded by greed at times as the companies. Depressing idea, isn't it?


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## xaqintosh (May 9, 2002)

1. Do the new iMacs support Quartz Extreme?

2. Is it true that Quicktime _pro_ 6 is included in Jaguar? or is just plain Quicktime?


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## phatsharpie (May 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *1. Do the new iMacs support Quartz Extreme?*



iMac LCD has the GeForce2MX chipset with 32MB of VRAM, so yes, it does.



> *
> 2. Is it true that Quicktime pro 6 is included in Jaguar? or is just plain Quicktime? *



I don't know about the pro version. I would think Apple would continue to offer the regular version for free, and the pro version for pay. I could be wrong.


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