# Exclusive Insider News - iBox



## Alex (Dec 31, 2003)

Last night someone sent us an email with detailed knowledge of some kind of interactive tv system project at Apple. We're still looking into this, seeing what we can find out... We've posted the email as it was sent to us only leaving out his email address. You can find it here: http://www.macosx.com/content/article.php?cid=53


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## monktus (Dec 31, 2003)

This sounds interesting. The problem with stuff Apple has done in the past, like Pippin and the Newton is that the products have been a bit ahead of their time and the market wasn't quite ready for them. Now however, with iTMS, iPod and the crossover between the PC and home entertainment, it looks like iBox could work.

Also, don't want to go too off topic but has there been any more news about the small/cheap iPod? There were rumours about a cut down 2GB or so version but the reaction didn't seem to positive. However, one of my friends told me he had heard that it was definitely going ahead and would be released in the spring for about £65/$100. Supposedly there had been some mention of it by Steve himself. Can anyone confirm this or am I just dragging up dead rumours?


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## senne (Dec 31, 2003)

News on the mini iPod: check out ALL Apple Rumor websites


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## fryke (Dec 31, 2003)

iBox. *cough*... 500 MHz G3? Naaaaah. 900 MHz G3? Hmm... With MPEG encoding? Naaah. Not with 128 MB RAM, either. That box would definitely need a G4 (AltiVec is good for MPEG) of at least 800 MHz (and why not?) and a bit more RAM, too. I think that someone's just written up what he or she would _like_ Apple to release.


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## Cat (Dec 31, 2003)

Remember this? ... I suppose "iBox" is a concept name. I don't see Apple marketing a product with this name. There have been rumors about an Apple-branded set top box for years ... this looks  like a hoax to me ... especially the "watered down" versions of the iApps sound very doubtful.

Edit: BTW if it could be used without owning a Mac, it would be a double-edged sword. On the one hand it would appeal to a greater market segment, on the other it would not promote sales of other Macintoshes ... hmmm ... a bit like the iPod ...


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## fryke (Dec 31, 2003)

Makes marketing sense alright if Apple can make money off the machine per se (i.e. it's not just a teaser to buy a Mac). Whether people would use such an iBox with a Mac or a PC doesn't matter to Apple as long as they make their profit. (Still: It helps the Mac's image if the iBox is received well.)

But: I don't see much truth in this rumour right now... (as I've mentioned above...)


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## Stridder44 (Dec 31, 2003)

It would be very interesting to see such a thing. Whether or not I'd ever get one is beyond me, but you never know. I have to agree tho, a G3?? I know it's not running much under the hood (supposedly) but if Apple killed off the G3 within their computer line, I don't see why they don't simply toss in a G4 instead, and Im pretty sure theres gonna be more than 128 of RAM in there, of course though, these are just rumors.

Either way, it still sounds intersting and cool, regardless of whether or not it's true.


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## ApeintheShell (Dec 31, 2003)

I thought they called it "TiVo".

People use WebTV because it is supposedly easier and you can watch television. It also has limited capabilities and the same problems that every pc has. 

Let's assume Apple calls it QTV or Quicktime Television. Yeah we already have that online but it would give people access to Quicktime trailers, keynotes, streaming music, independent movies, and other things you can download from the net that are in the quicktime format from their living rooms. Of course if you have a laptop and fast connection it wouldn't be a problem right. 

I think with the Movie industry beginning their campaign about stealing, that might be another market to take advantage of. Only Apple can show us.


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## Captain Code (Dec 31, 2003)

Assuming it would run on some stripped down version of OSX Panther, I still don't think that'd be enough to run it on a G3 with only 128 MB of RAM.  Most TV(not HDTV) is only 320 by something pixels, so MAYBE they might get it to work fast enough.

It does sound awesome, but is quite expensive.
There is a lot of stuff packed in it from the description though, so that does justify the price.


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## mindbend (Dec 31, 2003)

Based on its described purpose, a G3 is plenty as well as 128 RAM. It's not like it's really doing much. It's just a storage, throughput and playback device as I see it. The G3 will let be quiet and cheap(er). Again, based on its current description, what would a G4 and more memory get you? I guess maybe sorting iPhoto/iTunes files faster or something minimal like that.

It sounds kind of cool, I guess. I'm not quite buying into the whole TV/Computer cross-experience, though in general. I like to keep my TV and my computer experiences as two very different things. But then if my house were wired differently or if I had airport and this iBox, I might Think Different(ly).

Definitely want to see it in action.


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## Alex (Dec 31, 2003)

SpyMac forum members have picked this up, they have some interesting points *trying to find link...* 

SpyMac Forums: http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=55498

As for more info on this, I've emailed this person back asking for more details and they have yet to respond. As soon as I get info I'll let you all know.


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## Captain Code (Dec 31, 2003)

Just think about how you would use it.  iPhoto is pretty slow on a 400MHz G4, which is what I used to have.  What if you wanted to record a TV show(decoding analog and converting to digital, maybe MPEG2, or MPEG4(very CPU intensive)), and us iPhoto or iTunes at the same time?  That is a pretty realistic thing to do, and unless they don't let you do those things at the same time(bad idea) then I don't think a 500MHz G3 is going to cut it.

Do you really want to use a bogged down iPhoto while it records your TV show?  The whole concept sounds great, but some of the specs don't seem realistic.


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## drustar (Dec 31, 2003)

I suppose this "iBox" that you folks are talking about is something that would be a counterpart for Windows XP Multimedia Version? I remember reading old threads about iBox and wasn't really incorporated w/ multimedia stuff. iBox (conceptual images that I saw before) somewhat resembled the Power Macintosh 4400.


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## Captain Code (Dec 31, 2003)

Macosrumors.com has a similar story, but is not really that similar.  I don't know if they had this up before this site, or just made it up based on this story, or if someone made up 2 stories, or if one is true, or if both are true.


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## Alex (Dec 31, 2003)

We recived the email around 8PM last night (Dec 30th), their article was posted some time the same day, while they seem similar I don't think they are. They say it would be more like the eyeTV or something that would connect to a mac, while this is said to be a whole different unit. What is interesting though, is that they say their sources are telling them about apple researching this technology. If not the "iBox" or what they talk about, maybe a combination of some sort.

After reading a bunch of replys to the article I've gathered that while the processor/ram speed seems low for such a box, it never specifies what kind of os or system runs this. Assuming it is MacOSX of some sort, it would probualy be a bare bones version which might make up for it's questionable specs.

I'd really like to hear back from this person, see if they can answer any of the questions surrounding this.


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## cwoody222 (Dec 31, 2003)

I have a device now that lets me view photos that are in my iPhoto libary.  Play music that's in my iTunes library.  Connect wirelessly or via Ethernet.  Schedule TV recordings remotely - from my network or Internet.

It's called a TiVo Series2 with Home Media Option.  It works great and interfaces with my OS X Mac great too.

If this is true it had better be REALLY good as what it does and be cheap or else I just don't see the point.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love an Apple TV recorder and I understand the specs here listed more than what my current TiVo can do.  But if Apple gets into this game they better bring something new to the table.

And this better not be true unless the MiniPod rumors are true too because I already have my heart set on one of those!


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## symphonix (Jan 1, 2004)

Much as I wish this were true, I don't really see this as a likely move by Apple. But the real question is, if it was true, why would anybody involved in the test program bother to send an email to macosx.com about it? Also, when was the last time Apple conducted a "test program" even remotely like this one claims to be? All of their R&D seems to be kept very much in-house.
The alternative theory, that its just a dreamed up bit of baloney posted for the heck of it, is much more easily believed. So, any reply in regards to this email yet? And did the author include any hint of how the authenticity of the email might be verified?

That said though, if it is true, I'll be looking forward to seeing it.


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## Alex (Jan 2, 2004)

More on this: http://www.macosx.com/content/article.php?cid=55


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## Go3iverson (Jan 2, 2004)

Very cool idea...it solves a ton of my "problems" in connectivity and usability.

The biggest thing it would need, for me to jump on it and buy it, would be digital optical outputs, so I could hook that thing into my stereo for iTunes use and Rendezvous iTunes use.  I am dying for a full digital way to easily connect my iPod, TiBook, or G4's to my theater system, which this *could* do.  Airport to that iBox using iTunes sharing, fed through optical to the stereo system would be niiiiiice.

Second thing would be component video out put, but that's a far second to my optical request...S-Video would suffice.


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## Arden (Jan 2, 2004)

That remote control doesn't look very complicated, which this kind of device would probably necessitate.  Of course, if it's simply an artistic rendering, it wouldn't make a hoot of difference.

What would the pricing be on a device like this?  If it's anything more than about $500, it'll never.  But if it cost $150 and worked without need for a Mac, it could go like hotcakes.


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## CP-Man (Jan 2, 2004)

Arden said:
			
		

> That remote control doesn't look very complicated, which this kind of device would probably necessitate.  Of course, if it's simply an artistic rendering, it wouldn't make a hoot of difference.
> 
> What would the pricing be on a device like this?  If it's anything more than about $500, it'll never.  But if it cost $150 and worked without need for a Mac, it could go like hotcakes.



I thought the same thing when I saw that pic of the remote. But as you say, it's just an artist's impression. 

Regarding cost, such would never sell for less than $350 and considering that an iPod that only plays mp3s goes for as much as $500, i wouldn't be surprised if an iBox (if these rumours turned out to be true which I don't think they will unfortunately) would sell for that much as well. I would still buy though. 

If it's true i'm pretty sure they wouldn't call it iBox, it's too close to xbox and that's actually what I thought at first when I saw a post about on another forum.


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## Cat (Jan 2, 2004)

Maybe they'll rename it to iTV or eyeBox ... 

We are getting a lot of press with this one though ... even if it is an iWalk 2, there are links all over the macnet: in the Mac Achaia on Ars, on MacRumors page 2, etc.


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## graphxjoe (Jan 2, 2004)

I have the Tivo Series 2 with Home Media Option as well. I can access around 9,000 MP3s via iTunes and OSX on my G5 (as well as a ton of photos via iPhoto.) What I would love to be able to do is archive Tivo-recorded shows on DVDs. I was thinking about purchasing a Formac Studio DV device and feeding the recorded video from the Tivo into that. But, that's digital to analog and back to digital again. The Formac device is $200. If I can get burning capability and possibly analog VHS to digital conversion for $350 or so, then I think it's a good deal even though I already have the Tivo.


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## mindbend (Jan 2, 2004)

I don't know anything about these TiVo home media devices. Sounds cool. I don't suppose you can see the raw files that TiVo creates for its captured video, can you? And if so, what kind of files are they? Are they MPEG-2s or something?

Cuz if you can see those files somehow, problem solved of course.

You've got to believe TiVo 3 will have a built-in DVD burner. That's got to be a fairly common demand.


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## bobw (Jan 2, 2004)

And this from macrumors.com;

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031231141433.shtml


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## Pippin (Jan 2, 2004)

Its suppost to use IEEE 802.15.3 WiFi, for transfering DVD quality within 10 Meters.


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## ScottW (Jan 2, 2004)

Our new iBox Promotion.


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## symphonix (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey, that's a pretty neat promo ... using a prize that may or may not exist :-D


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## Alex (Jan 2, 2004)

If it doesn't, we're giving away email addys...


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## cq107 (Jan 2, 2004)

Alex said:
			
		

> If it doesn't, we're giving away email addys...


sounds good to me


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## GroundZeroX (Jan 3, 2004)

Fryke, Microsoft came out with an XBox that had only a 733 Pentium III, and it is the best performing game system around, as far as graphics are concerned, because it offloads to a GPU. TV needs are not as high those for a computer. If it is ran by a remote control, then it won't be doing the real time resizing that iPhoto does. If Apple put a 500MHz G3, a great video card, with a great GPU, and 128Mb of ram, they should be fine. The current video cards can do MPEG encoding on their own. My iBook does all of it's DVD playing through the Radeon 9200, and it plays flawlessly. There are several things that have to be understood about this type of device. First of all, it may havae lots of things that OSX has, but it won't be a full version. Second, it will be a TV device, and thusly, it will be single-tasking. Meaning, don't expect a Dock on your TV, to shuffle through iTunes, and iPhoto. Also, TV's are significantly lower resolution then even the first generation iBook (800x600). Quartz Extreme won't be working nearly as hard as it would be for the typical Mac display. A lot of what is said to be in there sounds very feasible, because Tivo runs off of Linux.


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## cpalka (Jan 3, 2004)

The only thing that gives this rumor a thread of believability is that all the other rumors have leaked only upgrdes to iLife, FCE, mini ipods, etc...The tech & business world tunes into S. Jobs each January and Apple uses the MWSF platform to jawdrop with the "next big thing". From what I have read, the other expected announcements (mini ipods, etc..) amount to "nice" but little things.  If u look back at the last few January product announcements, Apple's most innovative stuff has come from MWSF. Speed bumps, upgrades.., that isn't Apple on gameday. Remember, S. jobs has scheduled a 2 hour Keynote. 

Cory


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## MKPatrick (Jan 3, 2004)

fryke said:
			
		

> iBox. *cough*... 500 MHz G3? Naaaaah. 900 MHz G3? Hmm... With MPEG encoding? Naaah. Not with 128 MB RAM, either. That box would definitely need a G4 (AltiVec is good for MPEG) of at least 800 MHz (and why not?) and a bit more RAM, too. I think that someone's just written up what he or she would _like_ Apple to release.



Series 1 Tivo's ran a 50mhz PowerPC chip plus hardware encoding. Surely hardware encoding is the route to go for *any* embedded system? A simple Sigma Designs or similar encoder/decoder is pennies to a company like Apple. A 500mhz G3 ought to be plenty for what will be a relatively simple version of the OS (after all my g/f's G3 500 iMac runs iPhoto and iTunes quite happily)

Patrick


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## symphonix (Jan 3, 2004)

To be honest, I only really expect Apple to be introducing a handful of welcome improvements and expansions to their services, more so than their products. For instance, the iTunes music store is likely to open to new markets outside the USA, and since Apple are on very good terms with AOL now, it's likely that AOL messenger and iChat AV will be working together so that we can vid-chat with PC users. We might see the iPhoto print service extended to other countries. An update to the XServe seems reasonable too.
Cory has a point, though, that it would be hard to imagine filling a 2-hour keynote only with expansions of Apple's services. Maybe there is something special.

Oh, yeah, by the way ...
 How do you tell if it's a good MacWorld Keynote?
 With an hour to go, Steve says "Well, that's about it, but there is just _one more thing_ ..."


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## fryke (Jan 3, 2004)

Maybe he'll just be half an hour late and stop half an hour early. ;-)

Yes, MKPatrick, hardware encoding would be a must (as I've mentioned on macnews.net.tc about this rumour). And yes, then the 500 MHz G3 would even be enough.

Another thought... Would we be able to play a DVD, take the video output, put it into the video input and record live and digitally to the harddrive? ;-) Would make a nice 'archiving' system. And 90 minutes for 90 minutes of film sounds okay to me, too. ;-)


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## Cat (Jan 3, 2004)

Nice promotion! LOL 

If the iTMS would be accessible through the box ... it would be a real killer. You could spend less than $1000,- and get an iPod and "iBox" and never use any other Mac at all. It would just be a cool Sony-like multimedia classy thing. 

Would be nice -- could be true?


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## anschelk (Jan 3, 2004)

i can't remember exactly, but about one year ago there was an apple (uk?) executive on tech-tv who was asked about a set-top-/tivo-box and he answered "no comment, BUT apple has been working on something like that for quite a long time."
hmmm... rendezvous was announced 1.5 years and even a philips executive was on an apple keynote promoting rendezvous at this time - until now there was no big announcement with this technology. even one year ago, i waited for the apple keynote announcing  a cool tv product at mwsf ... nothing ... nada ... niente ... nix ...
now would be the perfect time to announce this thing - whatever it is - now that the ipod is in everybodys mouth (or better: ears apple would do great!
.a


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## Aphelion (Jan 3, 2004)

The Apple Media Player circa 1998:







This is from a project called "Columbus" that was revealed in an C/Net article dated March 13, 1998:

Apple's Columbus - a bold bet 

I think the time has come for Apple to provide this missing spoke to their digital hub.


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## Captain Code (Jan 3, 2004)

If they had something like that in 1998, then that actually makes the story more believable.


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## Alex (Jan 3, 2004)

I've never seen the Columbus before, all the prototypes I've seen on eBay (and AppleFritter *if thats how you spell that sites name*) are nice and square, and are just a modified black LC...Hmm...

*searching google for Apple Columbus*



> Columbus products may be keystone of Apple's tow-cost strategy, sources and retailers said. Units are said to involve combining CD or DVD player with Internet access device that would hook up to servers of Internet service providers (ISPs) and connect any operating system (OS). That would be departure from WebTV technology, which requires special server software.


 - http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3169/n12_v38/20540736/p1/article.jhtml


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## Aphelion (Jan 3, 2004)

Alex said:
			
		

> I've never seen the Columbus before... *searching google for Apple Columbus*



You might try searching for "Apple Media Player" these are pretty old links so you may have to wade through some Google pages.

MacEdition has an interesting article from "back in the day".


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## mfsri (Jan 3, 2004)

gee, i just got a TiVo... Guess we all will see Tuesday...


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## anschelk (Jan 4, 2004)

... and is your tivo worth its money?
.a


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## Browni (Jan 4, 2004)

my thinking is that i would buy it if it comes out, ive been looking for a way to reduce the clutter of my bedroom, and besides buying XP MCE, wicth is when you face it what iBox will be, i would prefer to have a Mac MC then a Xp one,


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## ablack6596 (Jan 4, 2004)

Well I have been wanting a TiVo/Replay TV for awhile, maybe I'll be able to get Apples


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## cwoody222 (Jan 4, 2004)

TiVo is TOTALLY worth the money.  They can be had for $199 + the required $299 lifetime (of unit, not of yourself) or $12.95 monthly.

For $99 (one time fee) you can play MP3s and view photos on your TV.  It works great with iTunes and iPhoto.

Of course, I'd wait 48 hours or so to see what Apple might have...but TiVo is totally cool and well worth it's price!


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## brooks_lt (Jan 4, 2004)

mindbend said:
			
		

> Based on its described purpose, a G3 is plenty as well as 128 RAM. It's not like it's really doing much. It's just a storage, throughput and playback device as I see it. The G3 will let be quiet and cheap(er).



I think you all are forgetting the little fact of AltiVec enabled G3s from IBM.  That could help with the whole MPEG decoding/encoding thing, if they don't use dedicated hardware for that purpose.  Well, that's just my two cents.


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## Cat (Jan 5, 2004)

Even if it would contain a G3 FX, I don't think it will be marketed as such, rather they will say "an innovative IBM PPC chip with altivec". 
I also still doubt the "iBox" name. While the product would be great and might even be true, there are still some strange details that won't fit IMHO.
I cannot believe it would run a "Watered down" version of OS X, nor that it would include iPhoto/iTunes light. Besides that, modders and hackers all over the world would quickly overclock and fine-tune it to run the Full Monty OS X and any version of GNU/Linux... I don't think Apple would be so happy with that and I can't yet see how they would avoid it.


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## Arden (Jan 5, 2004)

Cat, there is already a product exactly like that in millions of households right now: the Xbox.  It runs a heavily streamlined, modified version of Windows, and it lacks a definitive GUI for accessing the machine itself, though many people have hacked it to the breaking point.  I can't see this "iBox" being much different, besides recording TV or whatever instead of playing games.


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## Cat (Jan 5, 2004)

I know that there are a lot of such offerings: Xbox, TiVo etc. and even the HomePod now. What I am saying is that I am not yet convinced that Apple would make one. There are 20+ different current versions of Windows out there, and just two of the Mac OS. For the iPod, Apple licensed or bought another os, instead of making an OS X "lite". I simply don't see them doing it. The thing will most probably run another OS/shell entirely. However, this would entail that they would have to port iPhoto and iTunes which can be quite some work. The way of least resistance would mean that the device simply enables you to Rendevouz/wireless share your pics and tunes from your Mac to your Stereo/TV and viceversa. Thus it would not be usable independently of your Mac but simply act as link between Mac and Stereo/TV. The iBox however seems to claim a lot more.
I don't know. Jobs has always said that TV and computers would not merge. The iBox seems to do just that, merge some functionality of the computer with that of the TV. What I sketched however, already exists: the TiVo. Such a device would simply connect your Mac and your Stereo/TV which doesn't go against what Jobs said. 
Whatever, we'll know by tomorrow anyway.


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## madchemist (Jan 5, 2004)

When I saw this I remembered this from earlier this year.

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,58310,00.html

It was all over the place same name and all! I think apple should make a tivo style box its an important step. I do think it should have a G4 and I also think it should be semi-upgradable like tivo. But who know if apple will release the beast at macworld.


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## frickeBob (Jan 5, 2004)

monktus said:
			
		

> This sounds interesting. The problem with stuff Apple has done in the past, like Pippin and the Newton is that the products have been a bit ahead of their time and the market wasn't quite ready for them. Now however, with iTMS, iPod and the crossover between the PC and home entertainment, it looks like iBox could work.
> 
> Also, don't want to go too off topic but has there been any more news about the small/cheap iPod? There were rumours about a cut down 2GB or so version but the reaction didn't seem to positive. However, one of my friends told me he had heard that it was definitely going ahead and would be released in the spring for about £65/$100. Supposedly there had been some mention of it by Steve himself. Can anyone confirm this or am I just dragging up dead rumours?



I've never had any interest in TiVo but if this is true and the price is also true I'd be interested. I don't like Tivo's forced subscription and I don't use regular phone service and couldn't use tivo anyway. "Cheap" Ipod would be great.


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## sinnwell (Jan 5, 2004)

This device seems like pure balderdash to me.  At least people could come up with something that is reasonable!


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## daedbird (Jan 5, 2004)

I dont believe it....First it only comes with 128 mb of ram? Second, it only comes with Firewire 400?


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## mindbend (Jan 5, 2004)

I don't get this thread's obsession with the specs on this supposed iBox. What on earth is a G4 and more memory going to get you for a device that simply plays back and archives media? It's just a hard drive with enough of a GUI to move media around (speculative on my part). 

I edited three full length documentaries on an iMac 400 G3 with 128 MB of RAM. If those specs were good enough for that, they'll be plenty good enough for an iBox which has WAY less technical demands. Likewise, FW800 is overkill for this product. 

I'm not saying better specs would be completely useless. I'm just saying they are overkill and not needed at all for this product to do what it needs to do at a good price point. Hey, if they feel like shoving a G4 and half a gig of RAM in there, great. It's simply not necessary.


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## Ripcord (Jan 5, 2004)

frickeBob said:
			
		

> I've never had any interest in TiVo but if this is true and the price is also true I'd be interested. I don't like Tivo's forced subscription and I don't use regular phone service and couldn't use tivo anyway. "Cheap" Ipod would be great.



But you can use Tivo with broadband...


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## dixonbm (Jan 6, 2004)

I'm guessing this thread is dead.....

No iBox. Darn,  I was going to get one.


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## bobw (Jan 6, 2004)

So much for Sources.


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## Captain Code (Jan 6, 2004)

Or they're saving it for later.  Not everything is released at Macworld Expos now.  IIRC there was an update to the PowerMac G4s a few weeks after one Expo.


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## Arden (Jan 7, 2004)

Yes, an update.  Not a completely new product.  I would expect Apple to at least announce a new product such as this at an expo.


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## joek (Jan 7, 2004)

oh, just let it die.  you're starting to sound like MOSR now.  "maybe it'll come out anyway" 

it was just wrong.


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## Giaguara (Jan 7, 2004)

maybe .. next tuesday? like everything any other mac rumors site predicts that does not come out will come out next tureday, whether it's powerbook updates or new ipods. i remember last year i started hearing the new ipods out next tuesday thing around january ...


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