# boot in Win NT mode



## Eolake (Sep 13, 2000)

If you hold down ctrl-option-cmd-spacebar when booting the machine on which OS X is installed, it starts up in Windows NT mode, and will run certain Windows apps. Word for instance is supported, but Excell is not, or at least it is very unstable. 

It even looks very much like Windows NT, just not enough for anyone to get sued. 

Eolake

ps: Just kidding.


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## Chris Lepore (Sep 13, 2000)

As of DP3 (according to ArsTechnica), if you give OS X the "three-finger" salute (CTRL-ALT-DEL) at boot, it returns:<p>
THIS IS NOT DOS!<p>
lol


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## JeffSzuhay (Sep 13, 2000)

oh, man, you really had me going there.

I'm not in love with Windows (in fact I hate it) but there's an awful lot of software running with it out there -- some of it is worthwhile -- but Word and Excel are not in that set.

8)


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## machead (Sep 13, 2000)

I think some one said there was an Atari 800 environment as well as the clasic enviroment


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## JeffSzuhay (Sep 14, 2000)

Mach was designed to host other OSes just like the Classic environment.

In fact, the only reason BSD is in the core OS is for speed. It was the first OS hosted by Mach.

Why not Windows?
Why not BEOs or OS/2?
Why not PlayStation, for that matter?

So, we'll have Classic and BSD running on Mach with 1.0.

Cool.

Apple, can we have more, please?

Jeff Sz.


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## GORDYmac (Sep 14, 2000)

I'm sure Connectix has something in the works.


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## neye_eve (Sep 14, 2000)

re: <i>some of it is worthwhile -- but Word and Excel are not in that set.</i>

heh, do I get to start the first war of zealotry at this forum   ???

Excel simply rocks.  it is a spreadsheet program without peer.  I don't care for Word, am reasonably pleased with Access, but for spreadsheet work, Excel is validly placed at the top of almost everyone's list who really needs the functions and customize-ability.

sorry 'bout the OT post,

neye


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## MacDaddy (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I am a Mac zealot. 

MicroSoft knows very little about making a good interface.

Word simplysucks.

but
however
Excel is a dern-good little program. Anyone who want to be a MS bigot, can you name a better one?

I wish Apple would make something better, but they haven't.


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## JeffSzuhay (Sep 15, 2000)

Word and Excel already run on the Mac. That's not the point here.

I want to be able to run _other_ stuff on my OS X hardware. Stuff that does not have or has cancelled a Mac version...
 o MATLAB
 o our own software
 o other scientific software

Until the Mac market share goes somewhere meaningful (10% ?, 20% ?), a lot of vendors won't look at it. They'd probably look at Linux first.


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## MacDaddy (Sep 17, 2000)

Well, IMO with OS X out, Linux won't be an extremely viable solution. Simply because it is a niche market. I mean how many people (other than those who use it at work) prefer to use Linux at home (or at work in a non-server capacity)?? NOT MANY. 

OS X has the power and stability of UNIX and it isn't even a pain in the but like Linux


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## KewlPC (Sep 24, 2000)

Linux is a niche market???
Many web servers are running Linux. An example: http://www.gibworld.co.uk.
Lots of people use Linux on their home machines, but those are mostly PC users. Most people who use Macs that I know don't even realize that you can install a non-Apple operating system on a Mac.
The fact of it is, that most web servers run some flavor of UNIX, not WinNT (which includes Win2000). And Apple isn't even in the running yet, but OS X could change that. Example: Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. Willow Creek CD-ROM (ftp.cdrom.com, http://www.cdrom.com), one of the oldest and most reliable FTP sites out there, runs on FreeBSD. Hell, several of the machines that were used to do the special fx for The Matrix were running FreeBSD.


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## MattOly (Sep 25, 2000)

Actually, what's really cool is that Microsoft's website (both corporate AND MSN) are both hosted on Unix machines! What's that all about!? If they're trying to get Windows to be used as a secure and viable server platform they need to have faith in themselves. Bastards.


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## phaedo (Sep 26, 2000)

<b>microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000</b>

Go check it out at netcraft.com

Oh did I mention this too:

     <b>hotmail.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000</b>

hotmail...what a paltry little site 

Oh check out who also runs their servers on windows 2000, no one you've heard of before I'm sure:

     <b>The Nasdaq Stock Market, Hotbot, BigCharts, and Dell</b>

Why dont you think before you post stupid stuff.


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## phaedo (Sep 26, 2000)

One more!!

<b>msn.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000</b>


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## MattOly (Sep 26, 2000)

Before you start telling my how to post and not post, know that I'm not some knob that says "Gee!" when I see colors on my screen.  I've been in the industry for quite awhile. If I didn't know this from a reliable source, I wouldn't have posted it. That said, it's common knowledge (though, truthfully, I'm not sure how to do it) that you can change the headers to make it look like you're running whatever you want. My friend Yves works for MSN. He's a project manager for their customer service team.  The entire customer service area of MSN (and Microsoft) runs on Unix servers. So do large portions of the rest of the Microsoft website. Which Unix, I'm not sure. If it'd make anyone feel better, I could find out. But does anyone care that much?  I can't speak for Gates, but I know Yves and his crew think it's damn funny.


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## MattOly (Sep 26, 2000)

http://unix-vs-nt.org/kirch/#ms-solaris
Just so's ya know.


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## phaedo (Sep 26, 2000)

I think maybe the Unix machines to which you are reffering to are ones on their backend systems.  But from all appartent outward signs and statistics, statistics used in professional reports, show that their frontend machines running webservers, etc.. are running on the windows 2000 platform and microsoft's IIS 5.0 servers.

The link you reffered to quotes facts from 1998. The article isn't about Windows 2000, its about Unix Vs. WinNT 4.0.

I quote from the netcraft site, sorry this doesn't have a date but it's reletively new (2000):

"Hotmail Windows 2000 migration completes without incident.
The migration of the http://www.hotmail.com front end from FreeBSD to Windows 2000 seems to be complete with all recent requests from the site served from Windows 2000 machines and no evidence of any FreeBSD/Apache machines remaining in the load balancing pool. Microsoft will be pleased with this as the migration was completed in less than a month, without any reports of service disruption, and the site has previously been a beacon for open source evangelism."

Sorry if I came off/are coming off like I'm a jerk, it happens sometimes. Please correct me if I am wrong but I need current/concrete facts.


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## MattOly (Sep 26, 2000)

You know you're stuff. After a quick email from Yves:
"The frontend of MSN, all that's actually served, is Win2000 now.  All the customer and client databases are on Solaris machines.  The interact well together. We've been using 2000 since June of this year solidly. We started experimenting in December of last year. The Solaris machines probably wont switch over, because our intranet here is HP-UX and Solaris.  But if they ever do, I'm outta here!"
So you were right, I'm not affraid to admit when I'm wrong.  My information was dated.  It's all good, Phaedo!  

Now has anyone figured out that Atari 800 thing yet?


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## pNeuMatic (Sep 27, 2000)

because...

http://www.linuxsucks.com runs on Linux!


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## phaedo (Sep 27, 2000)

that was..umm..well, I dont know if I can classify the caliber of that post.


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## MattOly (Sep 27, 2000)

But in a good way. What about those rumors that Apples Kbase was running on NT machines first, then they switched over to OSX Server when people found out? Anyone else hear about that?
Yah, I don't know how to classify that post either, but this is getting fun and silly. I want more stuff like this!


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## pcurtner (Sep 27, 2000)

Actually, when I have some time, I'm going to try to compile MacMAME for OS X...

Let's run 20 year-old videogames on the latest and most advanced computing platform possible!  Yeah!  I want to play Joust at 600% normal speed!

-pwc


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## MattOly (Sep 27, 2000)

I've got an SNES emulator for my powerbook 1400. I love it!


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## captchoas (Oct 1, 2000)

MS places a web gate on Windows 2000 with IIS.  All requests are shipped back to servers behind their firewall.  These servers are Sun UNIX boxes.  The IIS left MS open to some easy hacks and other attacks.  They, because of the Win 2000 problems have had to turn off ICP at their routers.  Try pinging the thing.  Also nslookup never gets an authortive answer.  About 40% of MS corporate servers are Sun.


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## MattOly (Oct 2, 2000)

Rumor has it that Gates used to keep a 20th Aniversary Mac in his office because it matched his desk and chair.  He said it was to test Office 2000 for Mac. What a skeez.


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 11, 2000)

Windows ???
PSX ????
xmmm good suggestions....

how about N64, other Unien & faux-Unixen...., classic gaming apps.... and... maybe even full emulation of W2K  lol...

That will show em what the better platform is 


-->       Admiral 	 <--
--> The Emulation Man <--


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## timtt (Oct 11, 2000)

> _Originally posted by phaedo _
> *     <b>microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000</b>
> 
> Go check it out at netcraft.com
> ...



Just so you know, it is pretty easy to change the server ID of Apache to any of these. This has been done in the past to make it seem like WindowsXX is running when it's really Apache on Solaris/FreeBSD. It may not be the case here, but I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions....


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## MattOly (Oct 11, 2000)

I want to be able to play Adventure! on OSX. Just because it has the greatest line of any video game ever: "It is dark.  If you proceed, it is likely you will fall into a pit."  That is classic!


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## scooby (Oct 14, 2000)

If you ever read the developer journals, you'll see that the best tools are all for Windows and Unix. Noone ports them to Mac. Now they can be ported, GUI and all.

Second, all the CS departments at major universities teach Unix. Now, all the best proggers will be able to sit down at a Mac and get some work done.

Finally, it's already possible to port apps written in Cocoa straight to Windows, because most of the Cocoa framework runs on NT. De-frikkin-licious.

[Edited by scooby on 10-14-2000 at 12:50 AM]


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