# WWDC 2007. thoughts? guesses?



## Lt Major Burns (Jun 9, 2007)

What do we reckon could happen at WWDC, besides Leopard?  any surprises?  what could happen with the secret 'hidden' features of the next stage in our OS?  new computers? new product lines? will they release anything groundbreaking?  any speed-bumps? new equipment?  will steve do the whole keynote this time?

general thoughts...


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## fryke (Jun 9, 2007)

MacBook Thin.  Solid state disk (i.e. flash memory). 10" screen. Horribly expensive, probably.


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## Qion (Jun 9, 2007)

You wish, Fryke. You've been wanting that sub-notebook forever.


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## fryke (Jun 10, 2007)

And still the rumour sites all keep continuing about it year after year. Plus: I just want to say I called it here in this thread should it really surface.


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## PGTips (Jun 10, 2007)

A modern version of Xcode with a code folding, refactoring, syntax checking as you type (think of red squigly lines in Word when you spell things wrong), function hints with summary as you type. This is 2007, it's about time Xcode started to act like it was the 21st century and not behave like VS 6 which was released 10 years ago.


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## andyhargreaves (Jun 11, 2007)

fryke said:


> And still the rumour sites all keep continuing about it year after year.



Which is exactly what happened with iPhone - and many people kept on dismissing the idea, even the morning of the keynote!

Andy


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

Yep. Then again, it could still take years of rumouring it. Well, now that the iPhone's here (almost), we at least don't hear much about the Newton anymore, since the iPhone is pretty much what a Newton of today would/should be (minus some 3rd party apps, of course, which might change today).


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## andyhargreaves (Jun 11, 2007)

fryke said:


> ...the iPhone is pretty much what a Newton of today would/should be (minus some 3rd party apps, of course, which might change today).



I was thinking that too.  It would be nice if Apple did a deal with a company like TomTom (or something really amazing with Google maps) for sat nav.  That would mean I could be truly one-device, which would be cool.

And 3G for us folks here in Europe.

Wonder if the European carrier for iPhone will be announced?  That would be nice too.

Andy


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

I just bought a treo 680 unlocked (without contract) for ~240$ and am getting tomtom navigation for free now. Apparently, there's a great promo going right now. I'll get the iPhone when it's _ready_ for me, 3G and Switzerland.


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## andyhargreaves (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes, I've just got HTC Trinity (Orange SPV M700) on a free upgrade to my contract, so when the iPhone is ready to go in the UK I'll be able to sell it, to cover the cost.  Hopefully.  One thing I really like about the M700 is the built-in GPS chip.  That would be a great iPhone 'secret feature'...

Andy


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

okay. 45 minutes 'til the keynote. do we have a chat? or should we create an AIM (iChat) room? who's hosting?


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

okay, i'm in room "mxwwdc" (short for "macosx.com wwdc") on iChat. join me if you want.


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 11, 2007)

In a shocking change of events WWE Chairman and owner Vince McMahon becomes Senior Vice President at Apple Inc. Employees quote, "I don't know if we can take two reality distortion fields"


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 11, 2007)

Fryke, Fryke. Take to the supermarket. Fryke, Fryke. Where is the nearest Starbucks? Fryke, Fryke. Why don't you work?


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## Ferdinand (Jun 11, 2007)

andyhargreaves said:


> Wonder if the European carrier for iPhone will be announced?  That would be nice too.



I guess it would be either Vodafone or T-Mobile, since they are the biggest. But personally I hope for Vodafone, since I have it and don't want to change companies just for a phone.


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

It's all over now. why didn't you guys join the chat?  ... oh well... tons of news on Leopard. well, a little at least. brushed metal gone. unified look. translucent menu bar (eeeek!). new finder. (well... no talk about performance etc. though.) cover flow in finder windows. (eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!) many things. iPhone SDK? not necessary. web apps. (eeeeeek.) and yeah: safari 3.0 beta. for 10.4.9 and --- xp and vista. (eeeek.) it was a good show until the end.

btw. i'm writing this in a beautifully resizable form-field in safari 3.


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## Mikuro (Jun 11, 2007)

fryke said:


> btw. i'm writing this in a beautifully resizable form-field in safari 3.



Nice feature! I'm surprised by how well it works here, what with all the fancy controls and whatnot. Unfortunately, it does not work so well on other sites. Oh well. I guess there's really only so much Apple can do in this regard.

I've noticed that forms in Safari now take on the site-defined appearance rather than Aqua. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion, I suppose. Scroll bars, at least, are still always aqua.

Tab reordering is done very nicely. Getting the tabs to turn into windows seems a little quirky, though. For a while I thought it was impossible to drag the last tab of a window off of that window (and into another) because it just wouldn't work. Turns out you can do that (yay!), but it might take a few drags to get it to actually work.

PithHelmet has been made so that it won't try to load itself into versions of Safari it wasn't built for. It's possible it would work perfectly with this version if you just went in and tweaked its plist (which I intend to do if there's not a new version today ). SafariStand seems to work perfectly.

Edit: No, PithHelmet does not work, period. If you try to force it to load, it'll just crash Safari. So we'll have to wait for an update. Oh well.

I could be crazy, but this version seems a bit faster. That might just be the effects of a reboot, though.


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## nixgeek (Jun 11, 2007)

Well, I was SORELY disappointed with the "One More Thing" announcement.  I guess for some it's a boon.  Not for me. (I run Linux on my PCs so meh on the Safari for Windows....maybe I'll try and WINE it... )

I did get excited about all of the features in Leopard.  I'm definitely sending the $$ on it once it's out....or maybe I'll just wait for when it's included with the MBP I want to buy. 

I'm curious about the remodeled Finder and I'm glad to see the Unified look become the standard.  Give me a simple yet elegant design.


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## irfaan (Jun 11, 2007)

hey is there a online video of the keynote yet?


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

nope. it would appear here I guess: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/appleevents/
And the direct link should be this when it arrives: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc07/

But so far: Nothing. I'm waiting as well...


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## icemanjc (Jun 11, 2007)

I was a little dissapointed this keynote, they didnt show very much that we didn't already know. But i'll have to wait till the video to see if its any better.


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## irfaan (Jun 11, 2007)

Its up now:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf07/


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

that's the wrong one, irfaan. it's not up yet.


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## irfaan (Jun 11, 2007)

yeah sorry, I just realized that... got ahead of myself.  Sorry peps!


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## symphonix (Jun 11, 2007)

I for one quite like the new look of Finder / Desktop / Dock in Leopard. It is a little too glamorous in a few spots - I think putting Coverflow in Finder is the computing equivalent of putting pink neons under your car. However the use of stacks, and using metadata to provide multipage previewing capabilities is a very neat way to improve usability. The way Finder is now arranged, with an iTunes source-list style on the left pane, is quite good and would make passing around work in a small office like mine a lot neater.

And kudos to Apple for making an iPhone SDK available - it will make it a more viable proposition in the long term.


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## ScottW (Jun 11, 2007)

I wonder when they will make the latest build/showing available to developers (not at the conf).


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

symphonix said:


> And kudos to Apple for making an iPhone SDK available - it will make it a more viable proposition in the long term.


Sadly, they didn't do that.


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## fryke (Jun 11, 2007)

stream online now at http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/d7625zs/event/


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## symphonix (Jun 11, 2007)

fryke said:


> Sadly, they didn't do that.



So I see. I just read over the press release, and the wording sounds a little strange and uncertain. It sounds like Apple have decided to do this due to strong public feedback, and are still working out the details.


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## nixgeek (Jun 11, 2007)

Doesn't the new OS X Dock look strangely similar to the dock in Sun Microsystems' Project Looking Glass? 

Apple's Dock still looks much better though....


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## Thank The Cheese (Jun 12, 2007)

nice find nix -- very similar!
I have my dock down the left side, not sure how well that will work with the new dock.

No hardware announcements which is disappointing. And still no indication of a new iPod. I realise it is WWDC, so iPod isn't exactly a high priority, but it's been so long between revisions. iPod is really starting to look dated -- I hope Apple aren't completely abandoning the iPod line on the assumption the iPhone will take over.


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## ablack6596 (Jun 12, 2007)

symphonix said:


> So I see. I just read over the press release, and the wording sounds a little strange and uncertain. It sounds like Apple have decided to do this due to strong public feedback, and are still working out the details.



Well they basically just reminded people that they could make their own websites and view them in Safari.  That's as far as third party development gets on the iPhone.  Very disappointing.  

If it truly is OS X, it will hopefully be hacked soon after release.

There will be no iPod updates until at least September.  The whole free iPod when you buy a Mac thing is to get rid of the older models.


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## hawki18 (Jun 12, 2007)

I would still like to see a defrager added to 10.5 and a good carton about wwdc 

http://www.pcweenies.org/


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## Lt Major Burns (Jun 12, 2007)

web2.0 apps is a funny name for dashboard widgets.  they needn't be online as such, they just run 'within' a safari shell (remember, they needn't have the safari UI).  they're just going to be widgets.  you can make quite a lot with widgets.

i think this is going to be like voice recording and in-line mp3 encoding, other mp3 players have this ability, the iPod doesn't.  the ipod has quite restrictive features compared to the competition, but they realised that feature creep doesn't make a good product.  the iPod is spartan, simple, and clean.  and has sold 100m units as a result.  if you really want third party apps, get a treo.

i think the iPhone/Treo argument will resemble the iPod/iRiver debate quite similarly.


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## MnM (Jun 12, 2007)

Time machine backs up wirelessly! AHHH! sweet! all comps can use 1 large drive! That answers the questions for those with laptops.


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## MnM (Jun 12, 2007)

Also i think for cover-flow mode within the finder we should have the options of viewing files vertically and not just horizontally. But vertically with a twist. Picture a vertical doc with magnification turned on. Now picture what time machine looks like. Now picture them together. Something like time machine with magnification. I think that would be sweet for an option of cover flow. If only my suggestions could have been heard! Oh well one can dream


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## Satcomer (Jun 12, 2007)

Am I the only one that thinks the new Finder Quick Look's preview looks like it will be really handy? Scrolling thru a document without even opening it will be somewhat of time saver.


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## fryke (Jun 12, 2007)

Lt Major Burns said:


> web2.0 apps is a funny name for dashboard widgets.  they needn't be online as such, they just run 'within' a safari shell (remember, they needn't have the safari UI).  they're just going to be widgets.  you can make quite a lot with widgets.


They _specifically_ mentioned that those will be webapps, not widgets. You don't download them, you _access_ them. Within Safari. You can probably disable the URL-bar in Safari to hide its own UI, but it runs within Safari. No freedom, baby.


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## chemistry_geek (Jun 12, 2007)

I like everything but the new dock.  The new dock is overkill on the eye candy.  C'mon!  3D appearance with reflections!!?  There essentially is nothing new for the dock functionally other than 'fanning' documents or seeing the entire contents of folders in the dock in a graphical way.  The current way of seeing nested  folders works fine for me.  I guess I'm a functionalist who just wants to get work done as efficiently as possible.  I hope Apple offers an option to change the appearance of the dock to match the dock in Tiger.  The 3D appearance in Leopard is a little too thick on the 3D theme for me.


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## fryke (Jun 12, 2007)

Agreed. Plus: I hide the Dock all the time anyway. I launch apps with LaunchBar and for switching apps, the Dock doesn't have to show either, since we've got that fancy Dock-double at the center of the main screen appearing when alt-tabbing. The new appearance might lure me into showing it once in a while, though, and I've been waiting for stacks (piles) for a while. Wish they were implemented in the Finder instead of the Dock, but alas: They're here at least.


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## Satcomer (Jun 12, 2007)

Am I the only one to noticed Steve on the stage was using TWO external iSights on his onstage iMac?


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## icemanjc (Jun 12, 2007)

yah, I noticed too, I was like, why the heck does he have two isights if they're discontinued.


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## Durbrow (Jun 13, 2007)

Are there still any "secrets" left? Is this it? I am not sure why people should bother upgrading from Tiger. Or am I missing something? Perhaps we would be better off pay th $39 US for PathFinder...


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## ScottW (Jun 13, 2007)

Satcomer said:


> Am I the only one to noticed Steve on the stage was using TWO external iSights on his onstage iMac?



He has two so that if one failed, he would have another one ready to go during any demos. Pretty much standard. You can go back to other Keynotes and see the same thing.


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## Satcomer (Jun 13, 2007)

ScottW said:


> He has two so that if one failed, he would have another one ready to go during any demos. Pretty much standard. You can go back to other Keynotes and see the same thing.



Yea I know that but why three? Doesn't the iMac have a built-in iSight?


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## MnM (Jun 13, 2007)

Satcomer said:


> Yea I know that but why three? Doesn't the iMac have a built-in iSight?



Steve wasn't using an iMac with a built in iSight. He was using the apple display with 2 external isights. Not sure if its the 20 or the 23 inch display though.


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## symphonix (Jun 13, 2007)

Durbrow said:


> Are there still any "secrets" left? Is this it? I am not sure why people should bother upgrading from Tiger. Or am I missing something? Perhaps we would be better off pay th $39 US for PathFinder...



As for why people would upgrade from Tiger, there have been a few more features for Leopard released at the WWDC keynote which weren't publicised before. I think it looks impressive - not ground breaking, but certainly impressive enough to have most people upgrading right away.

But the more disturbing question is - are there any secrets left? We have our iPhone, which combines most of the popular rumours of the past five years: a tablet Mac, a sub-notebook based on flash memory, a widescreen touchscreen iPod. We have our home video system AppleTV. We have an office suite (iWork). Just about every far out, unthinkable rumour that we were dismissing as silly over the last few years seems to have come true, one way or another. So, what is left? Are there any secret projects back there in Apple campus?


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## fryke (Jun 13, 2007)

The iPhone, quite certainly, does _not_ replace either a subnotebook (good keyboard, full OS & apps capability) or a tablet (full OS & apps capability, larger size). It does replace the idea of a Newton revival, possibly.


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## Qion (Jun 13, 2007)

I'll upgrade to Leopard for iChat. I believe that application is Leopard's biggest "gotta have it" feature. 

I think that once developers start taking advantage of core animation we'll get some really modern applications, like the one Steve demoed. I'm a bit unimpressed with what came of the UI and the dock, but there are key features that make the upgrade justifiable.


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## icemanjc (Jun 13, 2007)

Still my question was not, why is there two, but why is he using a discontinued product?


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## Ferdinand (Jun 13, 2007)

How else should he show how iChat works on a Cinema Display without an iSight?


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## fryke (Jun 13, 2007)

He could've used an iMac instead. But they tend to use the fastest available hardware, which right now is the Mac Pro, and that means using the iSight - until they're ready to unveil new displays with integrated iSights...


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