# HOW long does it takes:Microsoft eating APPLE



## genehack (May 9, 2003)

Hello,

after that other thread got waaaay out of its original intention(WHY M$ copies APPLE Design in the near future),lets get that thread more strategic.
No Design questons here,no fanatism,no technical talk here.

First of all look at this FINAL released picture of this upcoming APPLE Cube etc. clone from MS/HP:

P.S.:it would be so cool to SEEEEEE pictures instead of having to download
:-((


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## genehack (May 9, 2003)

Okay so far!

Now,looking at these pictures the intention is clear and APPLE will definitely be in trouble the next time coming 
that ´s why they definitely flee in innovation(faster CPU) and SOFTWARE.

Why DID MS do this,why is APPLE doing its own Office App,why do these two companies got fed up of each other again?
It seems to me that we have two strategic,coming alliances out there:

The SONY/IBM/APPLE pole,unified in their interests against MS(Playstation developement,contentsharing,Software,
CPUs.,all surrounded by a livestyle PALM aided attitude)

vs,

M$/INTEL/HP Compac/Dell (big,fast moving but little margins)

::ha:: 

What do you think?


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## toast (May 9, 2003)

To have your picture in the post, use the [ img ] tag (consult the vB code page).

Such as [ img ]_http://mypicture.com/pic.jpg [ / img ].


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## genehack (May 9, 2003)

Bills final confession about APPLES future


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## kalantna (May 9, 2003)

I would say that Apple will continue to hold out against the corporate monster that is M$ for at least another decade. Of course by that time another breakthru in computing could put both companies out of business.

I predict at least another ten years based off of the decline of profits they have been experiencing. Still, the promising thing is that all of their profits fall completely on the black and are "net" profits. Meaning they have already paid everyone and this gravy money after the fact. 

Now M$ is attempting to do (hardware wise) what Apple has successfully been doing for years and I have to laugh. INMHO ensuring higher quality of a still inferior product won't ensure a better product than your competitor. 

Now, if we, as users, want to keep Apple alive I think that we need to start petitons on this and other sites like this one and send them out to major game companies. This way we could show them that their is a consumer base for their products. This, I fear, is the best way to get newer generations of computer users a complete choice.


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## garymum4d (May 9, 2003)

Microfoft will allways copy Apple
Apple will always copy Microsoft

Just like Ford Motor Co will copy Honda and Honda will copy Ford

It's like it the world over....It's called BUSINESS


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## tsizKEIK (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by garymum4d _
> *Microfoft will allways copy Apple
> Apple will always copy Microsoft
> 
> ...



yes. but BMW will never copy PEUGEOT.
and Ferrari will never copy DAEWOO.
but DAEWOO and PEUGEOT may copy BMW


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## binaryDigit (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tsizKEIK _
> *yes. but BMW will never copy PEUGEOT.
> and Ferrari will never copy DAEWOO.
> but DAEWOO and PEUGEOT may copy BMW  *



Well depends on what you mean by "copy".  A company like BMW might copy some electronic or even engine/drivetrain feature that originated in a Daewoo.  Take something like intermittent wipers, everybody has it now, but someone back then (I think it was Ford, who was successfully sued by the original inventor) did it first.  Also things like variable cam timing and even things like cup holders (funny comment in an article in AutoWeek about a new prototype Audi where the engineer talks about making room for cupholders).

Styling wise, yes, companies like BMW tend to be forward thinking and usually do not "borrow" styling elements (though by the looks of the current 7 series, maybe they should).


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## garymum4d (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tsizKEIK _
> *yes. but BMW will never copy PEUGEOT.
> and Ferrari will never copy DAEWOO.
> but DAEWOO and PEUGEOT may copy BMW  *




Ahh but if Daewoo devloped a new car over a few years, with good looks and that made it as fast or faster than a Ferrari, then would Ferrari copy anything from Daewoo???
I think so


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## hulkaros (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by binaryDigit _
> *Well depends on what you mean by "copy".  A company like BMW might copy some electronic or even engine/drivetrain feature that originated in a Daewoo.  Take something like intermittent wipers, everybody has it now, but someone back then (I think it was Ford, who was successfully sued by the original inventor) did it first.  Also things like variable cam timing and even things like cup holders (funny comment in an article in AutoWeek about a new prototype Audi where the engineer talks about making room for cupholders).
> 
> Styling wise, yes, companies like BMW tend to be forward thinking and usually do not "borrow" styling elements (though by the looks of the current 7 series, maybe they should). *



...BMW copying Daewoo or Peugeot, please? Point us there if it isn't THAT difficult...


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## hulkaros (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by garymum4d _
> *Ahh but if Daewoo devloped a new car over a few years, with good looks and that made it as fast or faster than a Ferrari, then would Ferrari copy anything from Daewoo???
> I think so *



...with a bold optimism and science fiction... Still, because I am, ahem, open minded, point us to some facts that Daewoo is or is going to do something that will surpass Ferrari, please! In this century that is...


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## hulkaros (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by garymum4d _
> *Microfoft will allways copy Apple
> Apple will always copy Microsoft
> 
> ...



They constantly copy each other...

M$ copies the quality of Apple products and Apple copies the quality of M$ products!

Apple copies the ease of use  of Windows and M$ copies... Nah, that's going to be a HUGE list!


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## Anim8r (May 9, 2003)

OK, I couldn't resist.


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## hulkaros (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Anim8r _
> *OK, I couldn't resist. *


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## ebolag4 (May 9, 2003)

I love how the car metaphor is always brought up, but seemingly is misinterpreted by the PC loving crowd.

I agree with above similarities. In my situation, I own both 2 Macs and a PC. I also own a Volvo and a Saturn. I definitely equate my Macs with my Volvo, and my PC with my Saturn.

Both drive down the street, and essentially do the same things (transport me and my family and my stuff). Which one is by far the better experience overall? The Volvo!

But wait a minute, my Volvo is missing some really cool things my Saturn has. A tilt steering wheel, cup holders, a sun-roof, fold-down back seats to access trunk-space, ability to open the gas cap cover and trunk from inside the car, etc. etc.

Do any of those added features make the Saturn a superior vehicle. No way. By the same token, a PC is not automatically better because it may have some added features. Also, just because both the car makers and computer makers share innovations and ideas with one another, is not what make the machine superior/inferior. It is the OVERALL experience that does it.

A PC may be able to do all the things a Mac can (I doubt it) and some here have said that a PC can do more (I sincerely doubt it), but that doesn't make it better.

But again, I appeal to the human side and state that it all comes down to personal preference and experience. Some people DO like PCs more (though I'll never understand why). Just like there are some people here in America that would never buy a Volvo, just because it's a foreign car, there are some who will never buy a Mac because it's not made by Micro$loth/it's not what the majority owns/ it not ___________ (fill in the blank). Those folks don't know what they're missing.

As to the question of Micro$loth ever "eating" Apple, I hope never. To use the above analogy, my old Volvo is a much better made car than the current crop of Volvos. Why? Because guess who "owns" Volvo now? Ford!!! (The Micro$loth of auto makers in my opinion.)


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## garymum4d (May 9, 2003)

OK!   I may of gone a little over the top saying daewoo may surpass Ferrari but I think you get my point..

I Love all my Mac's

and I love my Chrysler PT Cruiser.. It's not a Farrari but still looks cool to me!!


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## hulkaros (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by garymum4d _
> *OK!   I may of gone a little over the top saying daewoo may surpass Ferrari but I think you get my point..
> 
> I Love all my Mac's
> ...



My cuz owns it and I totally dig it!  

Me, I can't wait for the convertible model here in Greece! Chrysler says it will come in 2004, a bit too far for me


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## chevy (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkaros _
> *...BMW copying Daewoo or Peugeot, please? Point us there if it isn't THAT difficult... *



Peugeot is MUCH older than BMW... so in any case the "discovered" the ar before BMW.

And the 206 CC is starting to be copied.


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## monktus (May 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by genehack _
> *Why DID MS do this,why is APPLE doing its own Office App,why do these two companies got fed up of each other again?
> *


Apple has had its own 'office' app for years - AppleWorks neé ClarisWorks has been around since the late eighties and was consistently better than Microsoft products. It was the first truely integrated works app and I think its still competitive today, I much prefer using it to Word, which is a terrible bit if software!


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## tsizKEIK (May 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by binaryDigit _
> *
> Styling wise, yes, companies like BMW tend to be forward thinking and usually do not "borrow" styling elements (though by the looks of the current 7 series, maybe they should). *



u might not like the current 7 series look. thats a matter of taste. im a BMW fan and i like it. 

newayz. companies like BMW tend to be far more advanced techonologically (and design-wise) ... thats why the 7 sereis is full of fibre optics... and thats why they dont use windows for their iDrive system


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## tsizKEIK (May 10, 2003)

i was just talking to a friend of mine from school. he has a pc. he has a sony cd recorder and no other program apart from WINon CD will recognize his writer. and with winoncd he couldnt make an audio cd from mp3s. 

and this is why microsoft will never eat apple  most of its users are not satisfied with it. but microsofts monopoly doesnt really give them many choices  
its like Sega Saturn and Playstaion 1 (or PS X) ... if it wasnt for the name SONY on that concole, noone would have chosen the PSX over the POWERFUL SATURN


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## tsizKEIK (May 10, 2003)

and heres an article  with a few opinions and experiences from a real professional. but then again, the real pros around here are the windows users  theyve experienced ALL sorts of problems, theyve seen the WEIRDEST things again.. and again ... and again..


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## binaryDigit (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tsizKEIK _
> *u might not like the current 7 series look. thats a matter of taste. im a BMW fan and i like it.
> 
> newayz. companies like BMW tend to be far more advanced techonologically (and design-wise) ... thats why the 7 sereis is full of fibre optics... and thats why they dont use windows for their iDrive system  *



Agreed that beauty is in the eye, though many eyes have issue with the current BMW styling trends (7 series, upcoming M5).

And hate to break it to you, but iDrive is "powered" by Windows CE.  But judging by all the complaints and problems with it, perhaps they should have went with something else (though in all fairness, I've not heard anything about the root cause either being in the OS or the iDrive app that sits on top.  It sounds a lot like the app itself is badly damaged, but who knows how much of a part that CE is playing?)

Oh and as far as BMW being technologically advanced, it's a double edged sword.  Have a talk with 88-93 750il (e32) owners (it was pretty advanced for it's time, lots of computer controlled stuff), they'll tell you what they think of all that wizardy (great when it works, WHEN it works).


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## chevy (May 11, 2003)

I hope the new 5 series will be better. It looks great, maybe the new revision of W-CE will also be better.


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## tsizKEIK (May 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by binaryDigit _
> *Agreed that beauty is in the eye, though many eyes have issue with the current BMW styling trends (7 series, upcoming M5).
> 
> And hate to break it to you, but iDrive is "powered" by Windows CE.  But judging by all the complaints and problems with it, perhaps they should have went with something else (though in all fairness, I've not heard anything about the root cause either being in the OS or the iDrive app that sits on top.  It sounds a lot like the app itself is badly damaged, but who knows how much of a part that CE is playing?)
> ...



yeap i agree with u on the E32. same thing with the new 7 series. its too advanced, and the iDrive includes too many of the cars features making it hard for most of its drivers . that is why on the new 5 series they simplified a great deal, making it easier to use and more functional. 
anywayz. its not just the iDrive that makes them advanced. the new 5 series is even better, unfortunately the article i read was not on the internet and i cant post it


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## MaC hAcKeR (May 12, 2003)

Ok, why are you talking about cars? _macosx_.com. not ford.com... stick to the topic...


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## binaryDigit (May 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MaC hAcKeR _
> *Ok, why are you talking about cars? macosx.com. not ford.com... stick to the topic... *



Well we sort of are, since this thread is about design and the "borrowing" thereof (plus how does *your* post add anything to this thread  ?)

OK I do get your point though, back to the HP thingy.  What I don't get is that I don't consider the cube form factor a very good one.  You can't stick it on the floor, it takes up a lot of space on your desk.  You could always stick it behind the flat screen, but then it makes it hard to get to the drives.  It's not very practical, though it can look cooler than all getout (except for the HP which looks like crap).

I think that IBM actually had a very workable solution.  They had a computer that had the drives integrated into the monitor, but the cpu in a separate box.  So the stuff you needed to get to on a regular basis was right in front of you.  But you could still have an easily expandable box sitting under your desk.  With scsi this would be a no brainer since we're no longer worried about supporting floppy drives.  I think if you made the box long and skinny and flat, sacrificing a bit of expandability and accessability, but getting more placement options (i.e. simply under the monitor, behind the monitor, on the floor, behind the desk) would be ideal (at least for me).


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## ebolag4 (May 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by binaryDigit _
> *What I don't get is that I don't consider the cube form factor a very good one. . . it takes up a lot of space on your desk. *





I think a cube would take up a whole lot less space on my desk that my current G4 tower. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac, but that tower is HUGE sitting on my desk.

I think the main problem with the cube form factor is that fact that it's so stinkin' hard to crack it open and tinker around with the innards. My G4, I just pop open the side and mess around, snap it shut and I'm done.

I guess that's part of the trade off between form and function?


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