# Which is the better Word processor - Pages or AppleWorks



## Ceroc Addict (Jun 19, 2005)

Haven't had much chance to use Pages and just wondering what people thought of it so far (and in particular, what features are badly needed for Pages 1.1).

Kap


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## Qion (Jun 19, 2005)

I really don't have a ton of experience in AppleWorks, but I think that's because I thought it was too much of a hassle to mess around with, and also why I'm voting for Pages. Pages is a great program, in fact I'm using it right now. I love the professional looking templates. 

I think that you should also include TextEdit in this poll. It's a really overlooked app, but it is extremely fast and easy and really gets the job done. I have wrote numerous reports in TextEdit.


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## Viro (Jun 19, 2005)

You could add MS Word there. I'm keen to see how people feel it compares towards Pages.


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## Ceroc Addict (Jun 19, 2005)

I'd be happy for any moderators around to alter the poll.

However, I suspect I already know the result of adding Word to the poll i.e. "Yes, Word is significantly more powerful (even with it's bugs), but most Mac users would give their right arm to be able to move away from MS and embrace a powerful Apple word processor (and even better, a whole Apple office suite)".

Kap


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## fryke (Jun 19, 2005)

I think this poll doesn't need MS Word. We can one day do a more complete one. But I'm interested in _this_ poll. I personally voted for Pages, but I guess it depends on what you exactly use it for. People who've been using MacWrite, MacWrite II, MacWrite Pro, ClarisWorks and later AppleWorks might have issues with Pages, I guess. Some things, Pages just can't do yet AFAIK. I personally only use Pages for actual writing two or three page stories (Poetry Slam texts). Nothing fancy, so I could also use just TextEdit. But Pages looks good and gives me a bit better controls for layout.

One feature that's SORELY missed in pages is a way to have Shift-Return work. In a justified text block, I should be able to create a line-break without it justifying the last line. A full return should - as it does - give a new paragraph, but a Shift-Return should make the last line 'left' instead of 'justified'.


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## AdmiralAK (Jun 19, 2005)

The last time I used "applework" it was called "clariswork version 2" lol 
I tried using it again on some of the iBooks that we have at work, but I could not get into it. I prefer MS office (for more complex stuff) or TextEdit (for simple stuff). I have not bought pages. MS office is free for me (work pays for it), so I opt for using something free rather than buy the apple alternative 

My JOb did buy me Keynote as a testing version. I use it when I do not have to share my presentations (not often) but when I collaborate with others, I use PPT


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## Mikuro (Jun 19, 2005)

I'd rather not have extra options added to this poll. I was about to make a thread myself asking how Pages compares to AppleWorks. IS Pages a full-featured word processor? Or is it just TextEdit + fancy templates?

I've been using AppleWorks for over a decade (of course, back then it was called ClarisWorks). It's served me very well, and it's a still a fine program  but Apple just _won't update the damned thing!_ I mean, OS X's been out for, what, 5 years now? And AppleWorks hasn't been given anything but an obligatory carbonization! It still uses QuickDraw (read: butt-ugly) text antialiasing. Bleh.

I really want to know if Pages a true and complete successor to AppleWorks, or more of a sister program.


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## fryke (Jun 19, 2005)

Well, it's clear by now that AppleWorks will die once iWork is complete. But I, too, think Apple should've spent a little more time fulfilling the task of having an OS X ready office suite instead of creating nice templates. But now, I guess, it's Pages that will become the 'real thing' over time. Until then, users of AppleWorks that need some of the features not present yet in iWork, will have to use the old thing...


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## Mikuro (Jun 19, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> users of AppleWorks that need some of the features not present yet in iWork, will have to use the old thing...


Can you give some examples of some of these features? You mentioned something about shift-return, but I'm not sure what that means (I tried hitting shift-return in AW with a variety of differently-justified lines, but I didn't notice any effect).

And what exactly are the advantages (besides aesthetics) of moving from AppleWorks to Pages?

For now I feel like I'm probably better off sticking with AW, but...something inside me keeps pointing to Pages and shouting "shiny! New! Me want!"


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## fryke (Jun 19, 2005)

Hm. As I've said, I'm only using it for typing my stories. I've created a template that works for me, and I'm not looking for the really important features like serial letters (dunno what they're called in English) or even large documents etc.

The Shift-Return issue is the following (and I don't know whether AppleWorks does this correctly...):

If you have a paragraph like this one (but justified), the last line of it is usually "left" not "justified". Applications like InDesign give you full control about this, you can have the last line "centered" or "right" or "full justified".
Now what I'm doing here is: I've created a new line inside the same paragraph. The above line that ends in ("full justified".) should be "left", not "justified" in Pages. But it is, if you put a Shift-Return there. (Only a "Return" creates a new paragraph, a "Shift-Return" creates a new line in the same paragraph.) It's a simple bug in Pages that should be solved - but isn't yet.


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## Canada-Man (Jun 19, 2005)

Good old Mariner Write is the best. Much more than AppleWorks, Pages and MS-Word.


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 19, 2005)

I use Pages to create newsletters and send them out to the family. I think the application ignites that spark of creativity that Appleworks did not. I've only used Keynote a couple times for presentations. I think there was the potential to make templates and use them but it never caught on with the mainstream crowd. I have not yet written papers in Pages so I could not tell you my experience.
Appleworks is great for reports except for the missing grammar check. Otherwise, both iWork and Appleworks compliment each other.
I would also like to see Apple create another drawing/painting program of there own similar to Adobe Photoshop Elements or Corel Draw.


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## RacerX (Jun 20, 2005)

Well, I've been using TextEdit as my primary word processor for quite a few years now, and with all the third party services that I have added, it does pretty much everything I need.

Of course where it comes up short, Pages picks up... but I, personally, don't use Pages. When I need more than TextEdit I turn to Create (a couple weeks ago I wrote a 77 page document which I typed out in TextEdit and then put into Create for layout with table of contents, chapters, etc.).

As for AppleWorks... I don't really use it, but I also wouldn't want to go without it on my systems just yet either.


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## RacerX (Jun 20, 2005)

ApeintheShell said:
			
		

> I would also like to see Apple create another drawing/painting program of there own similar to Adobe Photoshop Elements or Corel Draw.


Apple has told Andrew Stone that they don't plan on getting that far into that type of software. Before Apple released Pages they assured him that it was no substitute for Create.

And Create is a great page layout, illustration and web design app based on Apple's APIs. And Stone Design just released iMaginator which is based on Apple's CoreImage APIs.

I'd rather Apple not get too involved in areas where there are already great third party solutions. As long as they are making an environment were these apps can be easily made (and are being made) then Apple is doing a great job.


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## mindbend (Jun 20, 2005)

The answer to this thread's question is easy: Appleworks.

Appleworks is more of a true word processor, where Pages is more of a page layout app. Yes, there is overlap, but each one is better than the other in those areas.

My limited use of Pages tells me it's really just a niche application. It's page layout for idots, my apologies to all the idiots. 

Personally, I wouldn't use either (Appleworks or Pages)for word processing OR page layout, but I'm an egotistical jerk who scoffs at anything short of InDesign for layout. And since I don't do any real word processing, Word is plenty good for me. So would Appleworks be I guess, but I actually like Office in general.


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## lurk (Jun 20, 2005)

One funny thing with all the people knocking pages as a word processor.  If you just load up the blank template you basically have a Word clone with none of the annoying junk (although there is some new junk).  I use it to write all sorts of boring Word documents daily with more retained sanity than normally would be expected.  What would you want it to doe that it doesn't?


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## Qion (Jun 20, 2005)

mindbend said:
			
		

> My limited use of Pages tells me it's really just a niche application. It's page layout for idots, my apologies to all the idiots.



That's a little far. I'm good at designing layouts (I use Illustrator 10 and Quark), but sometimes when it's school-related or it's just not really that important to be "original", I would use Pages. It's not layout for idiots, it's time saving for people who want it done.


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## pds (Jun 20, 2005)

I think (little late in the game) that another option is needed, Pages is significantly different than Appleworks. 

I have used Appleworks from time to time, but never really relied on it. Still Pages is a different animal, more geared for the fancy stuff like the family newsletter and other design-type bells and whistles - to spark creativity as someone put it above. But the few times I went to use it for that, I had to abandon ship and go to Indesign (for rotated text boxes and the like - maybe learning curve). So I haven't really been overly taken with Pages either.

One thing I'd like in Pages 1.1 (probably 2.0) is less reliance on pallettes. My iBook struggles with horizontal space and I'd like to have more of the formatting tools as part of the main document window. 

So I stick with NeoOffice.


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## karavite (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm really confused here. I used to use ClarisWorks and went kicking and screaming to Office. ClarisWorks had something even Word or any other office suite can't touch today - integration between types of documents. Text, tables and graphics in a single document without all the hassle. It just worked. I have Pages and I am not impressed, because it seems really immature and limited. However, they are on the right track if they continue with an app that can do it all with ease. I never used AppleWorks, but I always assumed it was ClarisWorks with a new name. Maybe its not?

FYI, if you want to try a writing tool that is really unique, check out Copywrite. It is not a document editor like Pages, Word... it is a writing tool or organizer. Only $29.99! If you are a writer, researcher, student... it may be very useful to you http://www.bartastechnologies.com/products/copywrite/


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## Viro (Jun 21, 2005)

You can insert Excel charts/graphs into a Word document. I don't see how ClarisWorks or AppleWorks could be significantly different in that regard.


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## Sirtovin (Jun 21, 2005)

I am using Word 2004... I tried to use Pages... but I find the interface a bit preplexing... I like Apple Works 6. etc.. because of the interface... but Word seems to have what I need and how I need it for now... I would love to see Apple Works 7... Instead of Pages which to me is nothing more than a cheat sheet for simplified Word Processing.


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## karavite (Jun 21, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> You can insert Excel charts/graphs into a Word document. I don't see how ClarisWorks or AppleWorks could be significantly different in that regard.



In ClarisWorks you had the available UI controls for text, spreadsheets, drawing and databases in *one* document. In addition, you didn't have all the crazy formatting issues that Word users so often encounter when inserting charts/tables... between the office apps. While Office claims "seamless integration" it is anything but seamless. For people who create reports and business documents, no matter what their skill level, Office has plenty of features, but falls short in letting people be as productive as they could be primarily due to lousy interaction design. ClarisWorks was much closer to being seamless.


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## fjdouse (Jun 21, 2005)

Shall we start a new poll listing all the options and vote?  I'd like to know what people use most and why and discuss all the options from Office to NeoOffice


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## ApeintheShell (Jun 22, 2005)

So what episode of speed racer did they finally found out who Racer X was? I thought it was his brother but I could be wrong. Fuzzy memory. Thanks for the reply. I'll have to check out Create soon.
Anyways, Appleworks was a Mac OS 9 application for me because it made sense like its predecessor Clarisworks. Moof. When they transitioned it to run on Mac OS X things did not run as smoothly. Sure it had the look but not the feel. I used Appleworks for a majority of my reports in school and when I had to use Microsoft Office my mind drew a blank.So here we are in the year 2005 with a native word processing/layout application called Pages. I wonder how long it will take for Apple to phase out Appleworks from its software line and replace it with a robust version of iWork.
I would like to use inDesign but I don't have the money to buy the software and probably don't need all the features. Even Adobe Photoshop 8 looks more complicated than its earlier versions.


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## sinclair_tm (Jun 22, 2005)

i've only looked at pages once.  like others, i used claris, and love apple works when it came out.  even though its not trully native in 10.3, i still use it.  i love opening one app to write reports, balance my check book and anything else.  i've never liked office at all.  i can't stand havin a app try to do things for me that it thinks that i want done.  so i'll stick with aw6 till it no longer runs, or pages ( or some apple app ) becomes more like aw.


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## Damrod (Jul 12, 2005)

Well, I never wrote a lot. For small simple things I usually tend to use TextEdit, for bigger stuff I had Word at hand. I prefered that at some stage ofer AppleWorks back in the days.

Right now, I work at the office of my brother-in-law and have to write a manual for one of the applications he developed. As he has iWork 05 I thought I might give Pages a test drive. And so far, I'm more than pleased. Some stuff is not where I would expect it, but can be found quite easily. It's much easier to use than Word, thats for sure. And I think it has not so many differences compared to Works from what I remember.

Pages for me.


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## serpicolugnut (Jul 13, 2005)

Although Pages is technically a Word processor, Apple tried very hard to differentiate it from the pack (and Word, specifically) by giving it more of a page layout approach. It's really more competition for Microsoft Publisher than any other word processor.

It's a great 1.0 app. I use it all the time. I have a few beefs with it, but overall, it does the job.

I too use TextEdit for most of my simple word processing needs. Apple has done a great job of beefing up it's feature set in Tiger, but retaining it's simplicity and small footprint. I just wish it had line numbering, as it's one of the only reasons I don't use it for more coding work.


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## RacerX (Jul 13, 2005)

serpicolugnut said:
			
		

> I too use TextEdit for most of my simple word processing needs. Apple has done a great job of beefing up it's feature set in Tiger, but retaining it's simplicity and small footprint. I just wish it had line numbering, as it's one of the only reasons I don't use it for more coding work.


I love TextEdit... it has been my primary word processor for years now. And thanks to third party services, it can do a ton of things for me.

Here is a list of the services I make the most use of with TextEdit:
 Nisus Thesaurus
 OmniDictionary
 WordService
 MacJournal (the version I still use)
 Create
And then I added the services menu to my contextual menu via ICeCoffEE. 

Apple's Text Services provide a ton of cool features for TextEdit (and other cocoa applications). There are even services that I use that can be access via standard menus rather than just from the services menu like TextExtras and FontSight.

I don't think any of the services I mentioned would add line numbering, but a lot of them will extend TextEdit in other helpful ways (for coding, I would suggest TextExtras... it works with 10.4).


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## Golfer099 (Jul 13, 2005)

I hate to admit this fact, but I prefer to use Word.  I have not yet used Pages but I have used AppleWorks (and ClarisWorks) since v1.0 on my Mac LC II and loved it through High School.  Once I got to college (99) and since I've been working in the Corporate World I still use my Mac religiously (at home), but use Word because it's compatible with the rest of the world.  I can email documents from work and do them at home on my Mac.  Honetsly I wish I could bring my PowerBook to meetings because Word 2004 has some great note taking features not in Word XP or 2003 (I'm still on XP here ).  

AppleWorks was great and in fact I use the drawing part for page layout.  The reason I like this is because I obtained a Windows v6 version and installed it on my work PC to help troubleshoot my mom's files while at work (oops).  The thing is that Pages doesn't work on a PC and I need compatibility.  Although I'd love to convert the world to Mac, it's not going to happen and I still need to share files.  Same with PowerPoint over Keynote (a far superior program).


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## Damrod (Jul 13, 2005)

Golfer099 said:
			
		

> I hate to admit this fact, but I prefer to use Word.  I have not yet used Pages but I have used AppleWorks (and ClarisWorks) since v1.0 on my Mac LC II and loved it through High School.  Once I got to college (99) and since I've been working in the Corporate World I still use my Mac religiously (at home), but use Word because it's compatible with the rest of the world.  I can email documents from work and do them at home on my Mac.  Honetsly I wish I could bring my PowerBook to meetings because Word 2004 has some great note taking features not in Word XP or 2003 (I'm still on XP here ).
> 
> AppleWorks was great and in fact I use the drawing part for page layout.  The reason I like this is because I obtained a Windows v6 version and installed it on my work PC to help troubleshoot my mom's files while at work (oops).  The thing is that Pages doesn't work on a PC and I need compatibility.  Although I'd love to convert the world to Mac, it's not going to happen and I still need to share files.  Same with PowerPoint over Keynote (a far superior program).



You do know that Pages and Keynote are both 100% Word/Powerpoint compatible?


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## lurk (Jul 13, 2005)

For small values of 100%.


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## Golfer099 (Jul 13, 2005)

Yeah but that requires effort.  Making sure the right extensions are on etc screw that - i want to give people the knowledge that macs are compatible and if i have to explain to them to do anything more than save and attach - its worthless.  i work with it - people are stupid and want the least number of steps possible - and i'm not arguing this because  have to do it all dy with my developers who give me these crazy solutions with 5000 clicks and i;m like no make it simple do it this way - it's all about the user (which in this case is the pc user on  a mac being convinced its good) and that requires ms office


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## Ceroc Addict (Jul 17, 2005)

Now here's a thought - obviously Apple is going to have problems ensuring Pages can open all Word documents.

However, there should be absolutely no reason why Pages shouldn't be able to open all _AppleWorks _word processing documents. Can anyone actually confirm that Pages is 100% backwards compatible with AppleWorks' word processing documents?

Kap


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## ApeintheShell (Jul 19, 2005)

Appleworks documents and presentations are 98% compatible with Pages and Keynote. There is some reformatting involved if you have a complex report with different fonts, pictures, etc. In Pages the crossover from Appleworks to Pages document is odd without the rulers in place. However, it very helpful when I need to add a second page with the exact same styles and spacing.

The extra effort is worth it. First they select 'Export.." from the file menu. A sheet comes down and gives the user several options for fomatting. Word is selected by default and under it explains, "Creates a Word document that can be opened and edited in Microsoft Word". The user looks down and presses 'Next.." Another dialog appears for them to save the Word document with the name they want. The explaination of this seems complex but in practice it is simple for beginners and intermediate users.

The problem with Microsoft Word is you have to think too much to edit your document. Pages is a layout/processing application that works with the user.


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## crcr2003 (Aug 22, 2005)

ok. it depends on what u do for a living. for me, Microvirus Word is still the word process. 

although for the new kids i think Pages will rule. i mean lets admit, why would u use on school word to make a presentation or a report when u can have Pages and put the doc. online or add some awesome graphics or photos? Pages is more futuristic, more internet era. Word is just good as the old processor to do ur simple documents and give it to ur boss without complicating urself. period.

i tried Pages, i was very excited creating a fantastic cool document with a lot of data, photos, etc but when i exported it as an Office document, it came the end of my love with Pages, i had to re-edit so many things again so my colleagues could see the document on the PCs. although when i saved the file as a pdf, everything worked perfect. As a i said, Pages is to create documents that will go online, Word to creates documents that will go offline, i mean to the trash can...

anyway i think Pages is just a great appl. that mac will continue upgrading.


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## RacerX (Aug 22, 2005)

Ceroc Addict said:
			
		

> Can anyone actually confirm that Pages is 100% backwards compatible with AppleWorks' word processing documents?


Well, AppleWorks 6.x isn't 100% compatible with AppleWorks/ClarisWorks 5.x or ClarisWorks 4.x... why would you expect Pages to achieve what AppleWorks can't?

Frankly, if you want 100% compatibility with the documents from a given app... use the app that created them.


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## serpicolugnut (Aug 22, 2005)

Pages is not an app aimed at producing webpages. It can do it, but it's not what is meant for. Just because you tried to output a complex page to .doc format and it didn't hold, don't dismiss pages. Although many apps have .doc compatability, having your documents translate correctly is another story alltogether. OpenOffice, ThinkfreeOffice and others all have this problem. 

Pages is a great page layout application in the vein of MS Publisher. It's trying to do several things, and as a result, it hasn't really found it's niche yet as a product. It's not going to replace Word/Office anywhere just yet. However, there is hope. Apple did an excellent job with Keynote. It is light years ahead of Powerpoint in terms of simplicity and elegance. Everybody who see's my presentations is in awe of the quality, especially in the transition area. 

If Apple can beef up Pages and add a spreadsheet application that does everything most of use Excel for, it will have a great software suite on it's hands.

Although, even as an owner of iWork '05, I have to say I'm using TextEdit more and more. It's small footprint, quick loading time, and simple interface cover most of my Word Processing needs. And with the added Devon Technologies free Service for Word count, I can use it to write papers now too.

Now if Apple would just make the lists/link/tables features accessible through key commands, menu items, or a toolbar icon, I would be much happier. Having them is nice, but burying them in the text menu is annoying. Oh, and give me line numbers and auto-complete (type ahead) options, and I can ditch the other apps for good. For now, I'm using skEdit for coding. It's a nice, efficient HTML editor. Check it out.



			
				crcr2003 said:
			
		

> ok. it depends on what u do for a living. for me, Microvirus Word is still the word process.
> 
> although for the new kids i think Pages will rule. i mean lets admit, why would u use on school word to make a presentation or a report when u can have Pages and put the doc. online or add some awesome graphics or photos? Pages is more futuristic, more internet era. Word is just good as the old processor to do ur simple documents and give it to ur boss without complicating urself. period.
> 
> ...


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