# Killer X11 Apps --- any suggestions?



## larry98765 (Sep 12, 2003)

Hi All,

I've asked this question before but no response. Thought I'd give another try:

What are some of the great apps for X11?

Thanks


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## bobw (Sep 12, 2003)

https://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php


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## Cat (Sep 12, 2003)

Some nice apps are OpenOffice, Abiword, Gnumeric, The Gimp, Ghemical, pymol.

Nice games are Gnibbles, FreeCiv and LinCity.

Gnome gives you a very nice desktop environment for these, and there are a ton of different window managers, such as Enlightenment or GnuStep.

If you use Fink with FinkCommander it becomes very easy to download and install applications for X11. You can browse over 1000 different apps and utils and see the descriptions of what they do.


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## btoneill (Sep 12, 2003)

My favorite X app of all time is xterm.  I use it every day at work, for hours and hours on end 


Brian


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## davidbrit2 (Sep 15, 2003)

If you use IRC, go get xchat. http://www.xchat.org

It should be available via fink if you like.


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## symphonix (Sep 15, 2003)

My Favourite is "The Gimp"

Also, there's a little gamepack which was either part of the KDE or Gnome project which included "Space Duel" ...


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## WeeZer51402 (Sep 16, 2003)

hmm i could never get gnomes to work just right...


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## kilowatt (Sep 18, 2003)

I like running afterstep, and specifically, the Wharf (kind of like a dock for x11), and aterm (nice afterstep terminal that supports cool transparency effects).

What do I actually *do* in x11? xchat, gimp.... sometimes I run netscape 4 off my SGI (which has no graphical output), and browse my site for compatability.

Its amazing how fast that browser was though.... even if it did suck.


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## larry98765 (Sep 18, 2003)

Thanks for all these great resources, y'all.

I was under the impression that once I had installed X11, then I've only to download a UNIX app, and I'd be good to go. But it seems more complicated than that -- Fink, Gnome, etc.

Can someone explain this to me as you would to a child? With special needs? ;-)


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## Cat (Sep 18, 2003)

Technically you're right: install X11, download app, go!

BUT: Well, "go" means installing the app, which quite often could mean compiling it from the source. And moreover, where do you find your apps? Which ones do you want? etc.

One very useful management system that keeps track of what you have installed and what is available is Fink. Fink makes a directory dedicated to unix applications, nicely organised etc. However, it is not graphical, so you need to use the terminal. A nice graphical front end to Fink is FinkCommander, which shown the list of installed/available applications, sorted by name, size, type, etc. with all the version numbers, description etc. buttons, menu's etc. Very good for a beginner.

So now you have all those unix apps installed through fink, and how do you use them? Well, you launch X11, type in the name of the app in the X11 Terminal and the app launches.
However, a very nice way of managing, launching, configuring your X11 environment and unix applications is through a desktop environment, like Gnome or KDE. These provide an environment with a desktop, icons, menu-bars, control centres etc. With these you can launch, control your unix apps in an intuitive and graphical point-'n-click way, just like you were used to with OS X. 
Another plus is customisation, you can use various different file mangers, browsers etc. but also window managers and alternative workspaces.

Enjoy!


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## larry98765 (Sep 18, 2003)

Thanks Cat,

But why didn't Apple -- masters of elegance and simplicity -- include FinkCommander-like functionality into X11? If OSX is already Unix-based, and FinkCommander and Gnome or KDE are the interfaces, then what's X11 for?


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## Cat (Sep 18, 2003)

OK, I'll try, but probably others (Racer X for instance) know this better than me:

Mac OS X is based on several things: the Mach microkernel, Darwin-OpenBSD and of course the NeXT heritage. Read this if you want to know more. Forget the specifics, but this is what "Unix Underneath" refers to. This is the "machine room" of OS X.

When you log in as >console you can see how this looks like: mostly black. If you want pretty windows etc. you need a Window Management System: this draws windows, with buttons, edges, etc. Then you might like a Desktop Environment: the desktop itself, icons, menubars etc.

Now, of course we have all these, but inside OS X these are specifically tuned to run Mac applications, so they are not suited to run unix apps. To run unix apps as unix apps, hence without porting them, they need their own X11 window system.

Ok, so now you can run unix apps alongside your mac apps: great. If you want to increase the functionality and ease of use (and avoid the terminal) you can enhance your X11-unix experience by using a different window manager and desktop environment. Practically you are now running two OS'es in parallel.

Onward to Fink. Fink is a package manager: it tracks which packages (apps) are available for Apple's Darwin+X11, which ones you have installed, whether updates are available, a description etc. But it's not graphical. FinkCommander adds a nice window and graphical controls (buttons, menu's). They are both OS X apps, not unix apps. They help you install unix apps.

Why doesn't apple include them by default? Well, many people don't need/want it, I think. Moreover, they are freely downloadable and both Fink and FinkCommander aren't that big ...

So summarising this gargantuan post: FinkCommander is the frontend for Fink.
X11 is the windowing system, necessary for graphical unix apps like the Gimp and FreeCiv.
You can consider window-managers as custom skins for your X11 windows.
Gnome and KDE are optional enhancements of X11 by providing menubars and desktops (and games and utilities)

So the hierarchy goes like this:
Mach/OpenBSD-Darwin (core OS)
Mac layer (Carbon, Cocoa)
Graphic engines (OpenGL, Quartz)
Aqua interface

and on the other side
Mach/OpenBSD-Darwin
Graphic X11 Window System
Interface elements (WindowManager, Gnome)


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## larry98765 (Sep 19, 2003)

Thank you, Cat! Very helpful!


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## btoneill (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by larry98765 _
> *Thanks Cat,
> 
> But why didn't Apple -- masters of elegance and simplicity -- include FinkCommander-like functionality into X11? If OSX is already Unix-based, and FinkCommander and Gnome or KDE are the interfaces, then what's X11 for? *



The answer to this is simple. 

#1. X11 is only beta, and will be an optional install on Panther
#2. See http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports Darwinports is Apple's Opensource distribution software for OS X. It has a GUI interface called 'Ports Manager.app'.
#3 see http://packages.opendarwin.org, in a web browser that should be a webpage with instructions on how to mount  the WebDAV share of the Installer packages of DarwinPorts software. You can then just double click on the software package to have it installed. Basically it's like installing software packages from the iDisk Software directory.


Brian


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