# Why isn't apple back in the schools?



## wolf_pack (Oct 1, 2006)

Ok i have a question or opinion.. for so long apple was in schools and people were loving them, trust me i know i used an apple IIe in high school. My biggest thing is apple dominated in the schools and everybody in school loved them... Now all the schools are using windows xp and cloned computers? Why is this? I'm just getting back into apple computers because i've always had a thing for them but boy am i way out of touch on osx but will learn it in due time because i'm a patient man. I want to know where did apple go wrong and lose there market in the school districts? or did we just get a bunch of network people that didn't understand apple and it was much easier to go to windows 98 and then to xp? I would love to hear everyone's opinion on this matter....thanks Terry


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## Mikuro (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, Apple's made a lot of bad moves in the past 10-15 years that have kept them out of a lot of schools. In the past few years, I think the biggest problem has been Apple's apparent schizophrenia. They just can't make up their minds what markets they do and don't give a damn about. Right now, their product line suggests that they don't really give a damn about education (or anyone on a tight budget, for that matter).

Apple has a tendency to release great, cheap machines for consumers and educators, and then either kill them off or replace them with something more expensive that doesn't fit the market as well. The cheap, kid-friendly CRT iMacs were replaced by the classy/expensive/_breakable_ G4 iMac, which was then replaced by the luxury G5/Intel iMacs. The eMac (the truest successor to the CRT iMacs) was killed off. The G4 Mac Mini was replaced by the fancier, more expensive Intel Mini, and the iBook got the same treatment with the MacBook. Apple has finally replaced the eMac with their bottom-of-the-line iMac, but the iMac is, again, more expensive (by 25%!) and too fancy for the eMac's market.

I hate to say it, but when it comes to budget markets, Apple has no vision.


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## chevy (Oct 1, 2006)

I Switzerland the reason is different: Computer in school are not bought by school managers anymore, but by IT managers of the local community. And these are buying only DELLs for more than 5 years now for all their usages, from secretary to servers, based on global contracts (including support and machines replacement). This also makes easier for them to maintain a limited number of standard configurations that they re-install if anything goes wrong.

Apple lost its position at the end of the Mac OS 8 era, when the system was not very stable and had performance issues. It will be very hard to recover. But for sure not impossible.


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## wolf_pack (Oct 1, 2006)

yes very true but when i was going to school back in the 80's apple was big and now it seems like you said the don't give a damn about education. If they get these big school districts back into apple and support and stuff they could have a little money to do some more things... I think they honestly lost there roots that being education ya know? To me which i have gotten some apples via school districts just being thrashed because noone likes them or mostly not understanding them i think is terrible....I have not one clue how to go about getting around but i have a imac g3 400mhz system running osx that i'm going mess around with and get fimilar with... If apple wants to sell there system they need to "educate" the average salesman into not only selling regular pc but macs at the same time....Terry


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## wolf_pack (Oct 1, 2006)

chevy your right because the tech guy for our school is sold on pc and windows and wouldn't ever have another apple in the school, which to me kinda peaed me off because heck if it wasn't for apple it wouldn't of open the door for anything of the pc being used in the schools? Besides half of the tech guys know apple has a  good product just overpriced and i think there afraid it would take to much time to learn osx? besides if they learned it right they shouldn't have any problems like windows has and wouldn't have to always fix it, maybe it's job security......lol


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## Natobasso (Oct 2, 2006)

These new intel core processors should go a long way toward bringing apple's price points down to more acceptable levels. Maybe then we'll see more macs in schools and elsewhere?


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## wolf_pack (Oct 2, 2006)

i can only hope so ya know there a good computer and i just hate seeing windows come into school because it's not a user friendly platform...Terry


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## eric2006 (Oct 2, 2006)

The cheapest system Apple offers is just under a grand. Dell offers a system for half that. For schools on a budget, it's harder to justify the extra $500, especially with Apple's image as an "expensive" computer company. Sad, but true.


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## Timotheos (Oct 3, 2006)

When I left school just under two years ago we were using the old see through colored iMacs with os9 and had upgraded a few computers to Emacs with osx.
The guy that did the buying owned the apple store in my city so that helped, i think they got down graded low budget Emacs.
All the teachers were given iBooks and a few classes use iBooks too.

I only realised last year that all those old school computers i used at school growing up were apples.

When i got to use osx with the Emacs was what changed me to an apple fan. I think the schools are a pretty decent way to win over new consumers


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## eric2006 (Oct 3, 2006)

Timotheos said:


> When i got to use osx with the Emacs was what changed me to an apple fan. I think the schools are a pretty decent way to win over new consumers


That's a good point. Apple won't make money selling to schools, but they can defiantly win a user base. They should be looking ahead.


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## Mikuro (Oct 3, 2006)

Natobasso said:


> These new intel core processors should go a long way toward bringing apple's price points down to more acceptable levels.


I doubt it. I'm pretty sure PPC chips were actually _cheaper_ than Intel's chips. It was certainly not the reason Macs were more expensive; Apple has the fattest profit margins in the industry, because they can get away with it (and also they're probably the only company that spends money on real R&D). That's not likely to change.


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## wolf_pack (Oct 3, 2006)

apple has only what a third of the market if that right? they want to gain more but they make no effort in trying if you ask me? it's like living in a small town like i do you need change but noone does nothing about it because they say its been like this forever which i think it's wrong because you need change to keep growing and to prosper....I just feel apple need to work on going back to the roots of becoming a school powerhouse again and things will work out for them.....Terry


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## Neptune2603 (Oct 4, 2006)

wolf_pack said:


> apple has only what a third of the market if that right? they want to gain more but they make no effort in trying if you ask me? it's like living in a small town like i do you need change but noone does nothing about it because they say its been like this forever which i think it's wrong because you need change to keep growing and to prosper....I just feel apple need to work on going back to the roots of becoming a school powerhouse again and things will work out for them.....Terry



Apple's whole comeback image and appeal is being a computer that's not for everyone; it's for the better one's. I don't personally feel that way though, the key to Apple ever making a comeback against Windows is rebuilding their stronghold of fans, which they killed off a lot of during the 90's. Rebuilding takes time, they're increasing their market share slowly (Which is under 20%....) and building a new, bigger base. Once you have your base, you build up and move those grey area windows users to the white side.

But for now, they're building their base by appealing to elitist.


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## Viro (Oct 4, 2006)

Neptune2603 said:


> Apple's whole comeback image and appeal is being a computer that's not for everyone; it's for the better one's. I don't personally feel that way though, the key to Apple ever making a comeback against Windows is rebuilding their stronghold of fans, which they killed off a lot of during the 90's. Rebuilding takes time, they're increasing their market share slowly (Which is under 20%....) and building a new, bigger base. Once you have your base, you build up and move those grey area windows users to the white side.
> 
> But for now, they're building their base by appealing to elitist.



I'm sorry, but that's utter crap. Do Apple ads make seek to make them look good, cool and desirable? Sure. That's the purpose of advertising. Nobody ever sold a product by advertising it as being boring, bland, run of the mill. Does this mean that every company targets elitists? 

Mac platform as a solution, works. Personally, I bought a new macbook recently even though I've been slowly moving all my work to Linux. Why? It's not because I'm a rabid Mac fan, but because Mac OS X works without much effort. Ever tried getting your wireless card to work under Linux? It's no small feat. Then, you sit in fear that every kernel update could potentially screw up your system, bringing down your network connection. Ever tried getting sleep to work on Linux? Tried waking that sleeping machine? None of that works out of the box, even on distros like Ubuntu. 

Macs will not get the same kind of install base that Windows has. Microsoft is far too entrenched to be removed, and I doubt Apple is trying to compete. In many respects, this is largely irrelevant, since all your work on the Mac can be used by non-Macs as well (if you stick to common file formats, of course). So where's the value in a Mac, if all you do on a Mac can be done on any other system? It lies in usability. Macs are highly usable machines, that stay out of your way for most of the part. Linux, with GNOME is largely getting there and I can't wait for that day to come. Until then, it's going to be Mac OS X for me. 

Windows isn't even in the equation. The last time I used (and developed for) Windows actively was circa 2002. I had a nice moan about what I perceive to be the failings of Windows here which I wont repeat.


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## rubaiyat (Jan 18, 2007)

Well it may hearten you to know that my son's school is going back to Macs after having tried Dells for 3 years. I hope they sacked the b*stard who got them to switch in the first place, his staff certainly didn't think highly of him.

Sometimes it just takes a Principal or CEO who is fed up with Microsoft/PC problems and has experienced a Mac, to actually force I.T. to put the school's or corporation's interests before their own.

I saw recent figures which indicate Apple is finally fighting back in Education and winning some significant sales.


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## Ferdinand (Jan 18, 2007)

IMO, Apple literally "punched" all schools away with their new product line. Think about it: They remove all "cheap" products and put the expensive ones there instead. What if a school wants Apple laptops? Without the camera and all of those extras? They buy an iBook, you'd think? Wrong! They don't sell them anymore, only the webpage is left. So the schools think about it and want cheap desktops that are all-in-one. They go to the emac website and buy some. Not anymore! They removed all trails the eMac left on their websites and only sell the new iMacs, which again are way more expensive than the eMacs. That's what I call fighting off schools!


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## mdnky (Jan 18, 2007)

It all comes down to $$$.  Most schools are publicly funded entities and thus required to be "fiscally responsible".  They use tax monies after all.  There's no way to really justify purchasing a Mac when you can purchase two or three Dells for the same amount of money.  If you ask the average Joe or Jill, they'll demand that their tax dollars being spent at a school (or any other entity) get the best bang for the buck.  Buying the Dell seems more logical to them.

I don't like that any more than anyone else here.  I'd much rather see Macs in the schools, but that's the way it is.  If Apple wants back into that market, then they're going to need to figure out a way to make an inexpensive Mac for the education market that can compete with offerings from Dell and IBM/Lenovo.


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## limike28 (Jan 18, 2007)

I agree.  It comes down to money,  deals, and perception. 

Apple hasn't made the types of deals that Dell and other companies have made to get into schools.  Deep discounting can help, but Apple hasn't done much pf that.  

The other part is the perception that a lot of people have about Apple.


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## MrTAToad (Jan 18, 2007)

Its the same when all schools had Acorn machines (BBC micros or Archimidies) - because PC's were cheaper and "are used in business" everyone changed to PC's

Its a shame, as RiscPC's are very nice (both have a similar desktop layout) and its very easy to program.


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