# Well, Apple beat me.  I gave up the fight.



## lombard (Dec 10, 2001)

Well, I've finally given up waiting for Apple to release decent drivers for my ATI Rage Pro and DVD decoding in my Lombard Powerbook.  I've been hoping for almost a year now that I'd get to keep using my trusty old book with OS X.  Finally got sick of it.  Played right in to Apple's hands too.  Just ordered a new iBook with DVD.  Couldn't pass up the $100 rebate and 6 months interest free financing.

Looks like my lombard will be paying a visit to eBay right after Christmas.  Hoping to get close to $1000 for the whole system.  333MHz, 192 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, DVD, WaveLAN Silver card, FireWire-2-Go card, CF adapter, SuperDisk media bay drive.  We'll see how I make out.  I'd like to get it up before christmas, but with all my travelling, it wouldn't be possible.

Congrats Apple, you ticked me off enough to get me to buy a new machine.  You must be so proud.


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## edX (Dec 10, 2001)

now, are you really going to be unhappy because you had to get a new one? are you really gong to miss your old one while doing all the things you wanted to be doing all along. Selling computers is apple's business. if we don't want/need new ones every so often they wouldn't be here anymore. would you rather they stopped making bigger, better, faster models and just stuck with keeping your old ones working? I think apple does a pretty good job of supporting their hardware for a good 4-5 years when possible, especially with popular sellers. at least the give you latest operating system with almost every model whenever you upgrade hardware. whereas you could go out and buy a better pc and still only be running windows 98. Are you still wearing all the same clothes you bought in 1990? I hope not.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Dec 10, 2001)

why would you want to keep the old one with all the complications when you could have a shiny new one with no problems with much better features? that's what astounds me sometimes... people keep their old systems when new and extremely powerful new ones are available at a good price... am i just not getting something


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## scope (Dec 10, 2001)

I'll give ya $200 for the old one!  Right now!  $200!  You can keep your WaveLAN Silver card, FireWire-2-Go card, CF adapter, and SuperDisk media bay drive.  $200.....


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 10, 2001)

YOu dont get it do you ? 
If the computer works well why oh why replace it ?  Why spend the dough to do that ?  There is absolutelly no reason, and this guy SHOULD be pis'd off cause the lobard is a pretty good machine which apparently worked out well.  I would be seriously pis'd to if apple told me that I could not use my G3 B&W (which I cant 100% with OS X so  I am using OS 9 at home most of the time )


Admiral


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## scruffy (Dec 10, 2001)

It's unfortunate that Apple is ditching support for computers that really aren't even particularly old.  And it's especially a shame to have to ditch a Lombard - those were really nice laptops.

But I suppose Apple's a small company as giant computer corporations go, and they have to pick and choose what they get done...  Still annoying, I know - I am getting ridiculously close to having enough no-longer-supported hardware to put together a reasonable PC - just need a case, motherboard and CPU, pretty much.


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## Jorace (Dec 10, 2001)

Well I think that if you bought a BW or Lombardand where happy with them with OS9 then you dont have a right to complain now. They still work Just as well if not better than the day you forked out the money for them. 

OSX is the future. I am glad Apple is aiming high on this... If they made sacrifices in the OS to support older systems, and I had to pay for those sacrifices in the OS that just came with my G4 than I would be pissed. (and so would you)

Those with the oldest systems should be the most gratfull for this, as you  will be the first to reap the true rewards, as you are the ones that will be getting new systems the soonest...

In 3-4 years from now, we will all have new G4 and G5 systems.. and all will be good.


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

> Couldn't pass up the $100 rebate and 6 months interest free financing.



any chance you set yourself up for this kind of thing? rebates are sure signs that something is on it's way out of the manufacturers plans. The whole idea is to get you to buy up their leftover stock so they can start making more off the next innovation.  I'm not criticizing you as i do this as well, but i also am aware that it's like buying a car right before the new models come out. It simply won't be as good as what is right around the proverbial corner. You are destined to lose support before the guy who waits a month or two to buy the latest, most advanced thing for more $$. for me that's ok, and i'm not going to gripe about it when it's time to move on. 

enjoy the new rig while you can. it too will be a piece of history someday.


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

lombard has a reason to be pissed, but he also is going a little hard on Apple.  Yes, Apple should probably support DVD for the Lombard Powerbooks in OS X, but you can still boot into OS 9 to watch DVDs.  It's not like installing OS X is a requirement -- it's your choice.

With that said, I understand your gripe, lombard.  But I wouldn't be so harsh.  Apple just put support for DVD capabilities in ANY Mac with OS X 10.1, which was released in late September (basically early October).  Late November, they released an update to allow other PCI computers to have DVD support.  So you are only behind 2.5 months of anybody with a new Mac, and only one half month behind users with Macs using PCI-based graphics.  I dunno, but I don't think that's that long.  I would've held out longer, but I'm not in your situation.  I might have sprung for the new iBook anyway, because I'm sure OS X doesn't run as spiffily as you want it to.

How old is your Lombard Powerbook anyway?  4 years?  I say that's a pretty good lifespan.  And I'm sure it's still useful.

Ed Spruiell: No, lombard did not screw himself over in buying an iBook that comes with a rebate.  WHEN did Apple release the new 600 MHz iBooks?  Less than a month ago!  I hardly think that an update to them will be right around the corner.  The rebates are to spur sales for the iBooks.


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## lombard (Dec 11, 2001)

Honestly, I'm not all that upset about it.  It does tick me off that Apple doesn't fully support some of it's "supported" hardware.  I've only had my lombard for about 2 and a half years now.  I figured I'd have to upgrade this year anyway, but I really didn't want to make a move until the end of the summer.  I usually try to get 3 years service out of my macs.  Oh well, it'll be fun to play with my new toy.

Of course, what's really important is now I'm going to have to change my user name for all the mac forums I post to.


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

> Honestly, I'm not all that upset about it.


well, i think your original post had all of us believing you were. maybe you should have put a smilie someplace so our own replacement phobia defenses didn't come jumping to the surface 



> No, lombard did not screw himself over in buying an iBook that comes with a rebate. WHEN did Apple release the new 600 MHz iBooks? Less than a month ago! I hardly think that an update to them will be right around the corner. The rebates are to spur sales for the iBooks.


i didn't quite say he screwed himself over. i am just saying he made choices that will have a predictable outcome eventually, so why gripe. Like i said, i make the same choice very often, but i expect it to come down to this eventually (sooner, rather than later).  I still stick by assertion about rebates. When a product starts needing them to boost sales, it is already on its way out - 30 days or less makes no difference (ok. software updates are a good exception to this rule). My guess is that apple is right aroud the corner from upgrading it even more at the same retail price. look at all the rebates on the newest imacs. don't you figure the new flat screens are going to be the new emphasis in a couple of months or less?


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

Ed:  You're being WAY too pessimistic.  Just because something has rebates on it does not mean that it is end-of-lifed.  It just means that Apple wants to spur sales for the thing, and although the iBook got a really nice refresh last month, I'm sure consumers are still hesitant in today's economy.

Seriously, look at it.  The iBook got bumped to a 600 MHz processor on the high-ends with a 100 MHz system bus, and 128 MB of memory on all models (even the base model).  That's actually a decent update, and I think it's out of the question that Apple will release even newer iBooks at MWSF.  It's probably questionable even at MacWorld Tokyo.  I wouldn't be surprised if the next refresh of the iBook would be at WWDC in May (or some event like when they first introduced the redesigned iBook or the iPod), or even MWNY next July.  It's already been 5 months since last MWNY.  So, no, the rebates don't mean a thing about the current iBook model's life.

There has never been an instance where Apple has introduced a new model within 2 months of the last refresh, and it would be really stupid to do so -- for a company, it's advantageous to stretch out a model for as long as possible before upgrading to more expensive components, while keeping the price of the new model the same as the last one.

Computers do go obsolete pretty quickly, but not in 2 months.  You could say that the new iBook is already obsolete because there are faster G3 processors in iMacs, and there are G4 processors approaching 1 GHz in the PowerMacs.  But that's a ridiculous observation -- a product only TRULY goes obsolete when a new model of that same computer is released and the old model is no longer being produced.

So, no, there is no iBook "right around the proverbial corner", as you said Ed.

Lombard -- I'm glad that you aren't so disappointed as it looked like.  The iBook (my mom just got the combo drive model) is a very good investment, I think.


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

i don't see myself as pessimistic. quite the opposite. I am quite optimistic that apple, and computer technology in general, are moving at a faster pace than ever before.
as for the rest of it, only time will tell. we'll see who is closer to the truth after mwsf (you going?). you could be right about the economy in general factor but i still think there's more to it than that. I think the economy factor is simply propelling the release of better hardware faster than ever before because manufacturers are really grasping to try and stimulate sales to people who might not need to upgrade, but are tempted by promise of a whole new reality in their computing experience.

i could be wrong. there's a second time for most things


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

I'd be willing to make a bet, Ed.  I'm going to MWSF (pre-ordered before October  ).  I'll bet you that there will be NO new iBooks there, only the ones introduced last month.  I would bet even up to $50, if you really want to.  I'd be even willing to bet that $50 that there will be no new iBooks until after March 2002.

There will probably be new iMacs and new PowerMacs, and probably new flat-panel displays.  But I'm not betting on that.

You up for it?


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

no, that's too steep for my blood. I too am just a student in palo alto. i will bet you a cup of coffee on the patio at printer's inc though. 
but it must not be limited to 'ibook' - just a portable in the same price/performance range would count. could be a low end ti, a new name for a new level of laptop, etc.  or it could be anything added to the ibook that isn't already part of the deal - new built-in anything - ram, cpu, bigger harddrive, more plug in slots, cd/dvd, superdrive, better screen, etc.  Fair enough? if i lose, you can even get one of those fancy coffees. I just want a plain old cup a java.


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

Fine.  If ANY new laptop is introduced, or if ANY update to the PowerBook or iBook lines is introduced, then you win.  Accessories and BTO options don't count.  Basically, if Apple simply releases a slot-loading combo drive for the Powerbook as a BTO option to the online Apple store, that doesn't count.  But if Apple upgrades it's default professional model to have a combo drive, then that counts.

How's that?  Sounds basically what you were saying, but a bit different.


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

sounds exactly like what i said. done deal


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

I forgot to say that I don't like coffee, so let's make the prize any beverage under $5.  OK?


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

sure, you can even get a pastry if you stay within $5. maybe i should ask for a pastry if i stay within that. they have good pastries.   

see pm for personal info


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## simX (Dec 11, 2001)

(see subject)

Hey, I have an idea.   Since the bet is already on, how about posting a poll to see who other people think will win?


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## edX (Dec 11, 2001)

go ahead. i've got enough polls started right now


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## scope (Dec 11, 2001)

C'mon! $200!  That's a GREAT deal!  It's also all I have right now...


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## ThE OutsiDer (Dec 11, 2001)

Lombard I heaR your anger..

Let me try and cheer u up.

Now u have more power to the video card, you have cd/dvd/cdr features, ibooks look nicer (i think so), TV out, 500/600 mhz cpu, faster bus, cheaper ram, bigger HD,  a new friend, and time to change your name...

Hope that cheered u up.


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## edX (Dec 12, 2001)

i guess it just takes someone from down under to look at it backwards and correctly say what i was trying to in my original reply!! very eloquent for a bushman it would have been very eloquent for a michelobe man as well.

(scope -when placing a bet it is very important to clarrify whom you are betting for or against. I know simx and i seem to be challenging our psychic powers, but neither of us is that good)


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## ThE OutsiDer (Dec 12, 2001)

Ed the funny thing is I'm Italian decent..Bushmen  r the guys u see on cable catching crocadiles and american hearts...


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## edX (Dec 12, 2001)

see, that's us dam yanks. always making assumptions about a world we know little about  your's is still the best reply post in the whole thread!! bar none. I will definitly keep an out for your posts in the future.


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## lombard (Dec 12, 2001)

Wow, my little rant is gonna end up costing someone $5 whole dollars?!  To the loser of the bet....maybe you can get yourself a second job dusting off all the products in Apple's booth to make some extra cash.

Anyway, I am excited to be getting a new laptop, I'm just kinda ticked Apple ended up forcing my hand, so to speak.  I was really hoping to make it until August or September to save up the cash.  If it weren't for the 6 months interest free financing Apple's offering, I'd really be ticked.

And about your $200 offer scope, I'll make you a deal.  If I can't get more than that off someone on eBay, I promise I'll back out of the deal and sell it to your for $150.


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## edX (Dec 12, 2001)

oh.  scope was making an offer on the old mac-chine. you sure? sounds as ridiculously low for an offer as it does ridiculously high for a bet 

so lombard, what's the new name going to be? surely not 'ibook' i assuem


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## scruffy (Dec 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Jorace _
> *They still work Just as well if not better than the day you forked out the money for them. *



That is the whole point - they don't work particularly well.  If you bought a computer, with certain hardware included _by Apple_ then you surely have some right to expect it to continue working when the release an OS that is supposed to support that computer.



> *
> Those with the oldest systems should be the most gratfull for this, as you  will be the first to reap the true rewards, as you are the ones that will be getting new systems the soonest...
> 
> In 3-4 years from now, we will all have new G4 and G5 systems.. and all will be good. *



That is the most idiotic thing I have heard all week.  Wow, I paid $3000 for my computer only three years ago, and now it doesn't work properly.  Boy am I grateful to Apple for forcing me to fork out thousands more dollars if I want acceptable performance.

Newsflash for you:  We're not all bloody rich spoiled American consumerist twits in this world.  Some of us have these things called budgets, which limit us somewhat in what we buy.  Others are reluctant to buy new computers every two years because they know what sort of toxic chemicals are involved in making computers, and don't like the idea of throwing ten pounds of lead in a landfill quite so often.


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## scope (Dec 12, 2001)

Start the bid at 50¢ and make the time as short as possible.  You don realize how desperate I am to get a Mac laptop.  ANY laptop.  If I were to meet you in person, I would do unspeakable things for you and then pay you $200 for the computer.  I'd offer more, but $200 is all I got.  Actualy...$180, but $200 in a day or two.  PLEASE!  PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!






Did I mention I love you?  I do, ya know....


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## AdmiralAK (Dec 12, 2001)

It took me 3 years of part time work to be able to afford my current mac with all the trimmings


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 2, 2002)

hey... if it's on ebay, what is the link... i just wanna see it... even if it's expired...

maybe i'll buy it if it's not expired yet!


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## lombard (Jan 2, 2002)

I haven't managed to post it yet.  Still on vacation.

Should be up by the end of next week.....perfect timing.  I'm sure Apple will announce something that'll lower the value of it.  Just my luck.


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