# Force Boot Powerbook 17" into OS9?



## 4C4Blessed (Jun 18, 2006)

I have searched the forums for my question before posting it here. Iv'e seen one other person ask this question, and he got zero responses, but that was 5 years ago. Maybe today someone knows...

Simple - how exactly can i force boot or trick boot my Powerbook 17" into OS9? don't waste your time telling me how wonderful OSX is - I already like it anyway. Problem is, I have thousands of dollars worth of old music software which will NOT, run under "Classic Environment" in OSX. These music software titles NEED to be running on a true classic OS boot. Once again, don't tell me just to run Classic Environment under OSX. It does not work for my old (rare) music software, period.

I noticed that the APPLE HARDWARE TEST CDROM which came with my iBook 12" G4 800MHz is actually an OS9 based CD. That's right, boots directly into OS9 without any OSX involved. That iBook normally will only allow you to book into OSX just like the Powerbook 17. But with this CD, it actually boots directly into OS9 with no trace of OSX anywhere on the CD. So therefore I know it must be possible, it's just locked down somewhere, somehow. The Apple Hardware Test CDROM contains System Folder, and System & Finder, just as they should be in any classic setup. Problem is, it won't let you get at the desktop to run any other classic apps other than the actual hardware test app on the CD. (An old trick from the System 6 days if I remember right?) So therefore this Hardware test CD is proof that these iBook and Powerbook systems can in fact boot directly and straight into a stripped down OS9 without *nix.

Please let me know if anyone knows "the trick" to getting either the Powerbook G4 1GHz 17" or even the iBook 12" G4 800MHz to boot straight into OS9 AND show a normal OS9 Finder. Perhaps something special in the boot sector of this CD is the key? I'm at a loss.... 

Thanks in Advance!


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## DeltaMac (Jun 18, 2006)

sorry, no tricks.
The PB17 cannot boot into OS 9.
The fact that an Apple Hardware Test 'appears' similar to OS 9, is just that, appearance. The hardware test actually boots into open firmware, and is not a normal boot. You will notice the icon that resembles a computer chip as it boots. An OS 9 boot would show the normal 'happy-Mac face"

If you really want to use your older software, and there surely is some that cannot work with Classic (although a fairly small number), then...
Your best chance is to find an older Mac that WILL boot into OS 9. The last OS 9 Macs sold new are the PowerMac G4 Mirror-drive-door models (without Firewire 800 ports). Any Mac without built-in USB 2.0 ports should boot into OS 9


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## 4C4Blessed (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks for your reply!
My powerbook 17 has only USB 1.1 ports, not USB2.0. It's the 1GHz version, but I still can't trick it into booting macOS9 to the Finder. 

I was however able to change the contents of the Apple Hardware Test CDROM to get different results. For example, the funny icon you mentioned at boot time is actually stored on CD and can be deleted or replaced. (it's sitting right inside of the root of the CD in an invisible folder named Images). Also, removing either System or Finder from the System Folder on the CD will not allow it to boot any more, so therefor it is right to say that System and Finder must in fact be in use when booting the AHT CD, right? Getting Info on System and Finder reveal that they are version "9.2 Apple Hardware Test", and editing the scroll bar resource in those system files does affect the appearance of the scroll bar in Apple Hardware Test when it's running. So therefore Apple hardware Test does in fact draw from/rely upon System and Finder 9.2. This could be a fair indication that the iBook is in fact running System 9.2 when booting form the AHT CD?

But that's my limit of techyness. Does anyone know how to modify the startup program to show the full Finder instead of the AHT app?

Thanks!


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## DeltaMac (Jun 19, 2006)

I can repeat: Your PB17 cannot boot into OS 9, and there is no work-around for that.
Even if the Apple Hardware Test appears to be OS 9 (which it is not), the system needs a special Mac OS ROM file to support the OS 9 Finder, which is not available (at least publicly)  
I was speaking in generalities about the USB 2 ports. No drivers in OS 9 for USB 2.0, so an OS 9 Mac with USB 2.0 ports can't use the USB ports at USB 2.0 speeds. Macs with USB 2.0 ports generally broke away from OS 9 booting, hence the connection for me. This is not 100%, as you can see.
You will have to find an OS 9 boot-able Mac to do what you want.


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## fryke (Jun 19, 2006)

Buy an older Mac which _does_ boot into OS 9.2.2 to work with your older software. They're cheap.


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## 4C4Blessed (Jun 19, 2006)

DeltaMac, are you calling me a liar? Did you understand when I wrote that editing "System" inside of "System Folder" produces different results? (Using ResEdit) Do you understand that this means System is being used? If System was not being used, then it would not be included on the CD, and editing System would have made no results. But it does make results when you edit System. Comprendes? I can repeat myself too, jack...

Repeating: System 9.2 and Finder 9.2 are on the CD for AHT inside of a System Folder. Changing their resources CHANGES what you see on screen in the AHT program. = They are being used = They are being used = They are being loaded, and executed = they are being used.

Please, no more "generalities", and only reply if you understand what I am talking about.

Read twice before posting comments like that please, especially when you admit to relying on "generalizations".


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## DeltaMac (Jun 19, 2006)

Hot today?  I only point out that what you see (in this case) is not what you get...  Don't assume that a special System Folder created for the Hardware Test is somehow close to a usable OS. Believe me, its single purpose is to provide a boot to the Hardware Test.

You can edit all you like. Your PowerBook 17 cannot boot into OS 9. Without having access to info that only Apple has, you can't get there (booting to OS 9 Finder, that is).  The 'OS 9 System' on the Apple Hardware Test CD does not give you access to the Finder {period}

No generalities here - you can't boot into OS 9 on your PowerBook 17, and there is no way to get there, except by finding an older Mac that will.

It's the facts, just the facts. You're not a liar, unless you know the answer and purposely gave a wrong answer. I am providing you with the correct answer, as I understand it, and you may choose to accept it, or prove me wrong.


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## sinclair_tm (Jun 19, 2006)

have you ever taken a classic mac os install cd and dragged its system folder to the hard drive and then rebooted the mac?  you get a little window saying something about how the system is for special use only, and can not boot the mac, then it gives you a reboot button.  why did i sharer this with you, well its to reitterate what delta has been saying, just because it looks a duck, sounds like a duck, and smells like a duck, doesn't make it a real duck.  apple has been using a unique system and finder on their bootable cds for years.  they'll boot the mac just fine from the cd to allow to use the cd what its for (install an os, or run a hardware checker), but they will not boot the mac otherwise.  its done in the way they're coded.  but the point is this, apple says that your powerbook will not boot into os 9.  so unless you happen to have a mole inside apple computer that can get you an illiegal unrealsed copy of os 9 that will boot newer macs to the finder, _there is nothing we, or you can do_.  sorry, thats just the way apple did it.  its their hardware, and they make the rules.  by buying and useing a macintosh, we aggreed to accept their rules.  

unless of course you're a super hacker, or know one that would love to reverise engineer os 9 and then rewrite it to run on your newer powerbook.  but that would require writing all new device drivers, which is not easy to do, and takes tons of time.


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## 4C4Blessed (Jun 19, 2006)

Just an update for you guys, I was able to REPLACE System and Finder in my AHT test CDR with a copy of "real" System 9.2 and Finder 9.2. The AHT CD still boots and works properly into the AHD application!

In other words, the "special" system and finder are gone now on my test boot CD-R. Replaced by a "normal" System and Finder copied from an ancient scsi hard drive from a 'real' installaiton of OS9. 

At least we know now that we don't need a "special" System and Finder to boot the AHT test CDR. The problem remains tho, we are only booting into the AHT application once System has finished loading.... also, some unusual support files appear to be needed still at root of the CD, have not "weeded through" which ones can be deleted or not, such as diags and main.sc and so on.

To recap, the iBook 800MHz G4 is now booting to a CD which contains no *nix, and contains no "special" system and finder any more, they have been deleted entirely. It does contain now an authentic 'normal' system and finder taken from an old classic mac, along with the mystery support files. Still the Finder doesn't get the hook from system yet.... Only AHT app is getting the hook after system loading... suggestions?

Leaves me at this point thinking, there must be something in those handfull of oddball files in root which tell System not to load Finder but to load AHT after boot.. clues anyone? this is 'normal' system 9 (but not finder 9) now booting on the iBook!


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## 4C4Blessed (Jun 19, 2006)

By the way, if anyone wants to help tinker, I can post step by step instructions of exactly what I have done so far, what has worked and was has not. Let me know!


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## sinclair_tm (Jun 20, 2006)

of course your ibook is booting the os 9 disk, all the 800mhz ibooks support os 9!  but when you started this post, you asked about a 17'' 1ghz powerbook!  now which mac laptop are you trying to get os 9 to run on?  the os 9 supported g4/800 ibook, or the unsupported 17'' 1ghz powerbook?  please get your story straight.


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## DeltaMac (Jun 20, 2006)

sinclair_tm said:
			
		

> of course your ibook is booting the os 9 disk, all the 800mhz ibooks support os 9!  but when you started this post, you asked about a 17'' 1ghz powerbook!  now which mac laptop are you trying to get os 9 to run on?  the os 9 supported g4/800 ibook, or the unsupported 17'' 1ghz powerbook?  please get your story straight.



The G4 iBook (as 4C4Blessed seems to be using) also does not support OS 9 booting. iBooks (G3) do support OS 9, but not G4s. Gets confusing when iBooks come with 800 MHz, either G3 or G4


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## 4C4Blessed (Jun 20, 2006)

The iBook G4 800MHz does not in fact boot into OS9. Plz check yourself. I'm simply working with both machines. (Which ever one gets there first wins, I suppose). Neither the iBook G4 800MHz nor the Powerbook 17" 1GHz (USB 1.0) do not allow you to choose an OS9 volume in the Startud Disk control pane. 

Sinclair, the iBook 800MHz G4 I gaurantee you officially does not boot classic. 

DeltaMac, the computer is not "booting into open firmware", it is in fact booting into a copy os System v9.2 after open firmware finished its job. I have the box now booting onto NOTHING BUT authentic real System v9.2 and some proprietary support files sitting around it, which are not in fact *nix related, but what appear to be non compiled C header files (one is compiled, the rest are not, but I am not an expert in C).

Again, 800MHz iBook G4s DO NOT book into OS9 officially. That's what I am trying to accomplish, same story goes for the 17" PB. 

Please from now on, only people with actual helpful, verified input need respond. At the very least, insert the phrase "I think..." where appropriate, instead of trying to pass along facts which turn out not to be facts after all. I have no problem using "I think" where necessary, so should you =) I am getting tired of having to prove myself here, that's not why I am here.
Check yourself first please!


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## DeltaMac (Jun 20, 2006)

My goal, in this case, is not to help you with a useless cause, but to save you some time by pointing out (again) that your iBook G4, and your PowerBook 17, will not boot into OS 9 (which has no basis in *nix, BTW). So, according to the facts as I know them, I believe you are on a wild goose chase.

The problem that you would have to solve? How to turn over control of the computer to the OS. The minimal software used with the Apple Hardware Test does not do this. It's one of the functions of the Mac OS ROM file (one of those strange support files in the System Folder). Apple probably has some internal OS 9 that completely functions on many newer Macs (but Apple has no reason to provide that)


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## fryke (Jun 20, 2006)

how much do you cost per hour? how much time to you intend to spend on this little project? how much does an old blue&white G3 tower cost, which runs OS 9 in all its beauty?


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## nixgeek (Jun 20, 2006)

To add to what fryke said, an older Mac with a G3 would run OS 9 quite fast.  And a PowerMac G4 would do it even faster.  Both can easily be found for very cheap prices.  Check this link for vendors.

http://www.lowendmac.com/dealers/index.shtml

Heck, I have an old Motorola StarMax 4000 MT that runs 9.1 quite decently.  Would probably be better served with 8.6 also.....and that Mac has a PPC604e running at 160 MHz!


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## sinclair_tm (Jun 20, 2006)

ok, i was looking at the wrong 800 ibook, thats my bad.  but you still are never going to get the g4 ibook to goto the desktop on os 9, unless you rewrite the whole os.


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