# wanted: realistic reasons to buy a mac



## edX (Jan 5, 2002)

yesterday a friend asked me what kind of reasons he might give to his dad to convince him to get him a mac. his dad thinks macs are overpriced and not very functional. his dad is also concerned about the family being able to use the mac. so what he wants are some reasons the mac is easy to use, will do everything that the family expects a computer to do and wil be worth the extra money. 

He is not looking for things like speed or other obvious stuff that has been debated to death. he is looking for more real life day to day user stuff. in other words he wants to make a rational presentation at an average computer user level that will persuade his dad to reconsider his viewpoint.

i think points here should include osx and 9 as well as their compatability along with hardware issues.  answering public media criticisms would also help.

I will start off by offering the stability of the osx/classic environment as a good reason. For the average user, this system combo offers exceptional reliability with no need to go thru a complete reboot when a program does crash. even the finder can be rebooted without restarting.


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## Matrix Agent (Jan 5, 2002)

Apple has the most straigtforward software for novices. His family should have a better time with a mac than any PC. 

Mail
AOL Messaging
IE
iTunes
A better version of office than exists on Win
Beautiful Interface
An arguably longer lasting machine
Great Community Support Sites like this one...
Ease of Installation
Ease of Upgrading
No Drivers. No Drivers. No Drivers. (Can't tell you how many times this trips up PC users)


Almost any functionality is available for the Mac that you would want for a PC, plus a few extras. Sure if he has a small niche interest a mac may not be able to fill it, but i think it will be just fine, especially for family use.


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## vanguard (Jan 5, 2002)

Hmm, this is a good question.  The things that attracted me to the mac like, Unix underpinnings, rich development kits, and a good UI aren't the things that will win over this person's father.

I would probably say things like:
===============
It will work with our digital camera.
It will play our movies in the car. (If he wants a notebook)
It will surf the web, support java applets and all the major plug-ins.
It will work with our ISP/email provider.
It can read and create documents that you can use at work.

But the bottom line, Dad, is I like this one better and this is the one that I would use more often if we got it.

===============

When I was a kid, that would be the most affective way to convince my father to get the one I wanted.

{semi-offtopic}My father loved his three-speed bicycle.  He liked it so much that when it was time for my brother and I to get new bikes he insisted that we both get a three speed.  We rode them once, were ridiculed by our peers, then we *never* touched them again.  Ever.  (Of course, we didn't like them much because they were fragile in comparison to the bmx bikes we needed.)  What I'm getting at here is that if you buy something the kid doesn't want it will be a waste of money.{/semi-offtopic}


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## julguribye (Jan 5, 2002)

Macs aren't really that much more expensive. Ever tried to compare a iBook to an PC laptop? You get exactly what you pay for.
Example: First, when the iPod was new everyone though that it was expensive, but when they realized how good it really is they didn't think it any more. (the toshiba drive inisde the iPod actually has the same price as the iPod )


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## tagliatelle (Jan 5, 2002)

I think that I have already have an upgrade, because my old Performa was smoking like my pengirl. I think I can defend this, because I have learned in school something like analysing. Very popular and the mustbe in Windows. They are saying that you can save money by not buying hardware, buying anything. What is the Point?


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## tagliatelle (Jan 5, 2002)

What is a weak point from Apple is that when you have broadband that you can't connect an other computer to it right out the box. I have never seen this argument, a very strong suggestion...


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## voice- (Jan 5, 2002)

I think one thing is all the things we Macers take for granted. Look at XP, they are flshing banners and showing everyone how they have easy multi-user and can edit DV-movies...we've done both for...what? 2 years? And we took it for granted.

Look at Sherlock, it's a powerful searcher and it comes default.

And we have a lot more knowlege of computing than PC-users, so getting help in any case of trouble would be easy as hell...


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## ppcebay (Jan 5, 2002)

His dad probably know what is the difference between a Ford and a Ferrari. Both r car, they both get you from A to B. One is a better, safer and nicer car than the other. Is the extra cost good there? Well I have in my office a Performa 630, more than 10 years old and a 128 mac that even older. They both still running never had a problem. The software got upgraded but always looked the same. The mac has always beeing easy to use, no problem with compatibility, usually you really plug and play, not plug and pray like windows.

     All the major software that run on PC have a mac version so you will be able to exchange documents with any machine. The Virtual PC software works really good so if there is something that your mac cannot do (never happen to me) you will be able to do it with your PC emulator.

     Finally, MacOS X wich is the best OS in the world. Is unix base and I love it, easy and really stable. Lets not talk about the network because its stupid prof. Try to network a PC, is you want to get really mad that is a good way.

     Well afther all a mac is a better machine, they last long, they rarely have problem and, they r compatiple with 90% of printer scanners and peripheral...  If you want to have the least problem mac is the way to go.


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## thedbp (Jan 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hervé Hinnekens _
> *What is a weak point from Apple is that when you have broadband that you can't connect an other computer to it right out the box. I have never seen this argument, a very strong suggestion... *



while this doesnt' sound like someone who will be worried about networking a PC to a Mac, out of the box a Mac OS X box can talk to Windows boxen.  Also, through software like Connectix DoubleTalk, a Mac can talk to a PC and vice versa.

I think a better argument might be what are the REAL reasons to keep a PC?

File compatibility?  Macs have it.  Network Compatability?  Macs have it.  More programs?  Macs just don't have all the CRAP software.  Macs have EVERY bit of essential software available to them.

There's really just no reason to keep using a windows PC, unless you are a masochist.


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## Gate~Won (Jan 5, 2002)

ITUNES......ITUNES....ITUNES...
MP3s and music in general is big on the computer......
while PC apps make u pay over $30 4 sum decent software.........
its free

id give more.....but a lot of em have been covered and im rather high 



> _Originally posted by thedbp _
> *Macs just don't have all the CRAP software.  Macs have EVERY bit of essential software available to them.
> 
> There's really just no reason to keep using a windows PC, unless you are a masochist. *



lol


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## edX (Jan 5, 2002)

not that it really makes any difference, but should say that this friend is a university student. hence having no money of his own right now he must rely upon help from parents. He is very computer knowledgable, so much so that it is difficult for him to understand the more basic features that his dad would find important if you know what i am getting at. At any rate getting a new computer, particularly a mac would help him in school but his dad doesn't get it from the more advanced arguements.

so far i think the suggestions are going great. i agree with here that the networking with pc they already have could be a good point.


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## mrfluffy (Jan 5, 2002)

a mac will last longer, the slot loading iMacs should be able to run the mac OS for the next 4 years at least (with a RAM upgrade), a 4 year old PC now would struggle to run XP at any speed, the components are much better quality and generally last for years, iMacs look cool (dunno if that would count though) and the OS is simple to use.


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## symphonix (Jan 5, 2002)

How about:
- *Resale Value* - Compare the price of a 4y.o iMac to a 4yo PC in your classifieds pages. How about 10 years? I found Macs hold their value MUCH better (though, for some reason, nobody really wants to sell them!)
- *Stability* - Macs are less vulnerable to viruses, and are free from windows-related crash problems like DLL-conflicts, memory leaks and GPFs. The Unix core is well protected and can be set up to keep kiddies out of important files while still allowing them access to their stuff.
- *Goodies* - iTunes, iMovie and iTools are all fantastic tools for the home user, and turn the Mac into more of an entertainment/communication device.
- *Style* - Macs are a lot more personable than the biege-box PC, and present a cleaner, neater interface. The result: people actually ENJOY using a Mac.
- *Cost of Ownership* - PC owners are being forced to 'license' software for certain periods. PC owners are being forced to use proprierty formats, such as WMA and ASF, unless they pay more fees to M$. Win users are NEVER offered free upgrades, unless there is a security hole. And, worst of all, PC users are being 'pushed' into upgrading regularly.
- *No Drivers* means less time #$%ing around and more time working on what is important to you.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 5, 2002)

> Compare the price of a 4y.o iMac to a 4yo PC in your classifieds pages.



LOL! I got my Dell back in January 2001 for $3000 total (with 4 years financing costs) and it's worth a little over $400 now (on dell.com's resale value page)...

i could have bought a mac and been much happier, but since I knew of no mac programs that could do what I do, I bought a dell... bad decision on my part...


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## edX (Jan 5, 2002)

blingbling - when you say you knew of no programs that would do what you needed, do you mean there weren't any at the time or that you just didn't do enough research to find the ones there were? i think this issue of having the same or compatably, equivilent programs might be of concern to my friend's father.


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## voice- (Jan 5, 2002)

I think I get the situation now...your friend know a lot, his dad knows nothing but what you'd learn in an A4-office.

Here are a few aruments(yes, you've heard them before, but these are the ones who will work)

1. They last longer, so it's not needed to buy a new comp one year from now
2. They are easier to set up, he'll have more time for studying
3. He won't have to worry about virus, thus giving him a more reliable computer
4. Searching for info is easier on Mac, using Sherlock, beleve me, this IS a convincing argument

Do NOT mention games, iTunes, Ircle or any other non school-related apps. Rather say they are crawling for Windows and having them in the box would cause distraction...


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 5, 2002)

i was interested in doing digital video and DVD's in January 01 (and still am). i was well aware of iMovie and had tried it in store, but wanted something more powerful. I hadn't heard of Final Cut Pro and never really looked around on the Apple site (my fault...). When I looked at the Dell website, I saw some of the add-on packages for it, seemed pretty good, and ordered my PC. I didn't get the video add-ons yet, and i'll tell you why... because i'm only 14 and didn't want to spend A HUGE TON of money. The Dell seemed a whole lot better of a deal in my financial situation. 

but now that I am better off financially, I will be able to afford a mac and pay off this piece of fertilizer (i'll be nice) of a computer and give it to my little sisters (they don't know the difference... the computer they're on is so slow, they'll take anything)

so sorry this doesn't make a valid reason why to buy a mac... or wait, maybe it does... 

if you buy a computer, you'll be screwed over quick. if you buy a mac, you'll be very happy for years to come!


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## edX (Jan 5, 2002)

voice, you're almost right. the suggestions you made are some of the right ones and i think the dad profile is about right. but because the family will share it at times (i think, i'm not real sure), some of the other things you said not to mention might be good for his dad to understand that macs can do them.  but i agree, his mentioning them as his reasons would be counterproductive. the guy is very smart and making the grades doesn't seem to be his problem. i think the idea that the ease of doing his work would make doing it go quicker and leave him more time for other parts of studies would be a good argument. but how do you convince someone who, from what i gather, hasn't really examined macs since back in the original ppc days? i think his dad still thinks macs are more for artists than for 'real life' work.  i do think it might help if i find out just exactly his dad expects a computer to do - like what apps, what connectivity, what functions, etc. my friend was kinda vague on this when we talked. but from what i can tell he is serious about wanting a mac soon if he can just find the right argument to overcome dad's objection. i can empathize with him on this.


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## Anim8r (Jan 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hervé Hinnekens _
> *What is a weak point from Apple is that when you have broadband that you can't connect an other computer to it right out the box. I have never seen this argument, a very strong suggestion... *



I'm sorry... WHAT?
I got DSL recently, hooked up my G4 and put the supplied IP addresses/server names in the Internet System Preferences/Network panels and was up at 1.2Mbps in less than 5 minutes.

Networking has always been a Mac stronghold. Ever used one PC-Boy?


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## fuzz (Jan 5, 2002)

I grew up using IBM-compatible computers.  And I admit that the only reason I knew so much about it was because I had to fix problems with it or pay someone else to fix it.  Nine years and three computers later, I got fed up,
heard about OS X being Unix and bought a G4 (before OS X came out even).

Here's a couple reasons:

1) Less Maintenance
            - reinstalling OS for Windows is laborious and painful, usually taking            
              me 2+ hours.  reinstalling OS for Mac: 20 minutes.  of course, this 
              depends on how many applications & how much data you've to back 
              up & if you have a CD burner/ZIP drive.  
            - No IRQ conflicts, driver problems (an often issue with Windows);
               literally plug and play.  I don't spend time on figuring out if the 
               computer recognizes my perihperals.
            - Less time setting up hardware & software
2) Well designed case
            - In my old PC's, I've had problems with diskette drives not working, 
               PCI cards (sound, video, modem) coming loose and such.  Times 
               where I wanted to upgrade my CD-ROM, add RAM.  Times where I 
               cut my fingers on the sharp sheet metal.  Times where taking out a 
               diskette drive was like a Rubik's cube puzzle.  Times where it was a 
               hassle to put the cover back on.  Apple has a nice lever to open and 
               close the case for **easy** access to the internal components.  


I have more reasons but I feel that these reasons are more relevant for a family computer.  OS X is UNIX and is super stable.  Many Microsoft compatible software is also available in Mac version.  Basically, less stress, more productivity, and a computer with personality.


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## Captain Code (Jan 5, 2002)

Here's my reason:
THEY KICK ASS!


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fuzz _
> *Many Microsoft compatible software is also available in Mac version.*



and also, microsoft's mac compatible software is better than the windows version!

how weird... the products for their own OS is worse than the ones for the competitor OS... LOL!!!


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

uh, anim8r - herve's english needs a little work, but i am pretty sure he is saying that apple has been weak in promoting it's instant broadband capabilities and that he thinks this is a strong argument for why a mac is easy to use - a practical reason like what i asked for. if you read enough of herve's posts (and i know you can't miss em) you will see that herve is very pro mac. herve even talks about how great his performa is!!!
but your story interested me too because it sounds like you are saying you connected to dsl without a dsl/cable modem - is that right? i think your point about how easy it is to configure is a good one. which reminds me of one i knew but forgot to tell him - osx has built in firewall!! his dad would never be able to configure it but he would be able to no problem i am sure - so this is another security feature that would make a family feel safer!!
so far these are great but i am sure we are still overthinking some. try to think very basic, like when you first got your mac. what made it easy to learn and use? I know for me one thing was not having to worry i would break it if i did something wrong. osx, with it's security features of administrator and different access priviledges, makes it even more unlikely that anyone else using it could screw it up.  this is good. you folks are really helping me think this out. ( i want him to get a nice new mac!!!)


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

You must see one thing the mac that I have ordened from Easyware has only a value of 799$. Downgrading this configuration would be a shame. "I have information from Steve Jobs that there maybe a new Imac with a similar configuration." I'm afraid that less costly upgrades are in the make and that the internetpc I'm using has to continue it's life. BTW I have money(only fryday or saternday) and my dad don't likes the look of Imac and it must be able to run windows. If I got an Imac I would love the processor(kidding), the only thing I'm seeing...is that in the first year I was writing software for xt and they were classic macs in class. Now at the university I don't see them back. You find them as garbage.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 6, 2002)

ed, you translate his messages so well... please interpret what he said!

and did I clarify to you what I was talking about? sorry but when i type quick, i tend to forget what I was talking about and end a post without explaning myself fully...


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

so herve, the university got new macs?? Did they get rid of the old ones to buy new updated machines? if so, are they running osx? 
that $799 model is going to be pretty good with some added ram which is dirt cheap these days. It will feel like driving a porsche after using that performa of yours!!
you'll be like me, not really able to run with the big boys, but not stuck on the porch either!!

(american saying - if you can't run with the big dogs, you might as well stay on the porch )

and remember there is 'virtual pc' which allows macs to use windows programs. the admiral uses it. you should ask him more about it.


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

yes blingbling, i got the idea i think. to sum your reply up, you were like most pc people who don't realize that the most essential pro software is often found on both platforms, you were the one who made your choice by not realizing the full potential of the mac. you did a quick check and wrote macs off as being behind at the time. in the process you got screwed.
I also assume you mean that mac versions of programs are easier to use than windows versions. can you give any other examples of how they are "better"?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 6, 2002)

wait... WOAH!

I totally realized the full potential of the mac 100% but wasn't aware of Final Cut Pro at the time. I had never heard of it and while going through the Apple site, never noticed the Final Cut Pro page or advertisement. My fault for not looking close enough. I never wrote macs off as being behind or anything, I've been wanting a Mac for over 7 years since I saw one on display but because I never had a job to provide money to buy one, my dad always just bought a PC since he's always used them and knew alot about them. Yes I fully admit I got screwed and I regret my decision now. Yes I undenyably believe that Mac programs are easier to use. 

now, can you tell me what this person does with their computer so I can give better reasons why macs are better than PC's...


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

well aside from school, i know he likes to do some programming - all platforms i think. he's fairly artistic but i'm not sure if he uses it much for that.  he writes (and records?) music but again i'm not clear on if he uses a computer in that. I know he builds web sites, some as school projects. again i think more specifics of what kinds of programs he and family use is something i need to find out. i should talk to him again by monday i hope.

sorry also blingbling, i guess part of what i inferred in summary is that you felt mac was behind in software because you only checked apple's site for software ( and not very thoroughly?). there are plenty of other resources for mac stuff besides there but many people (like yourself?) wouldn't put in the effort to find them for a variety of different reasons. so you didn't realize the reality matched the potential. is this more an accurate picture?

btw, i'm hoping my friend will be reading this thread sometime soon so he can print parts of it and show or tell his dad and we can see how we did. and bling bling i'm hoping you can get  a new mac and give the hell, i mean dell, to your sisters!!!


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## voice- (Jan 6, 2002)

This is a dad we need to convince, right...tell him you can have many different Solitaire-games on the Mac...works for my dad...switching to OS X, his first question(and I'm not kidding) was "Where do I go for solitaire?"


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

lol

such a great point!!! it was the second question my girlfriend asked when she got her new imac600 this summer. i completely forgot! (her first question was "where is the internet?" - by which she meant the browser and mail!!) of course my selling point to her when she bought was that it is the only brand i can fix 

i just hope his dad doesn't use aol. trying to convince him of anything rational would probably be impossible!!!!!!!


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

Macworld is 4 very soon. I'm working now 2 get the keynote when IT comes life. Before I had 2 go working and go 2 the university.


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## kainjow (Jan 6, 2002)

My main reason for getting a Mac (especially a new one) is that they just look so beautiful. I recently had an iMac blueberry as my main computer. Everyone was amazed at it. Then, I just bought a Power Mac G4 with a 15" LCD Appel display. This thing is unbelievable (even the speakers are gorgeous)! Now everyone who comes into my house stares at the monitor for like 10 minutes. Even my brother-in-law, who is a heavy PC user, loves it. He always comes over and uses the computer (he even asked me how much it was, as if he was interested in buying it!). That's my reason they're so great. If you were to buy a PC, they're just pieces of beige junk sitting on your desk. With a new Mac, you don't have to hide the computer in a side room in your house. You can put it out in the open for everyone to see. I love the way Apple designs.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

I have only ordened one for 49990 BEF @ www.easyware.be.


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## mrfluffy (Jan 6, 2002)

the mac is like a religion (a pc users quote) we all help each other, the forums are great (do i get money for saying that? ) and cos there's only a limited number of mac models tech support (in the unlikely event something goes wrong) is easier. and why would you want to line bill's pockets even more?


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

I have checked my email. There is something in IT. IT has something to do with imovie. I find cubes nicer but I want keep the church in the middle. www.exell.com


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## Anim8r (Jan 6, 2002)

My apologies to Hervé. I had not read any of his earlier posts and it did sound like Mac bashing.

As far as the DSL hookup, I initially had a DSL modem. That worked perfectly. I replaced that with a router/switch combo which is just a dream to work with. 

I have a mixed network, and under OSX I have had absolutely no problems with mac to PC file transfers. The only thing that would make me happier is if Maya and the other PC based apps I use make the big move to MacOSX. Maya 3.5 for OSX is currently not quite where v.4 for PC is.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

print "come on don't be upset 4 1"


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## thedbp (Jan 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *you'll be like me, not really able to run with the big boys, but not stuck on the porch either!!*



i hear that ... my B&W sure isn't a screamer anymore, especially with the PCI graphics ... but it does everything I'll need it to do for a LOOOONG time.  I've stuck in a full gig of RAM for under $250, just bought an 80 GB HD for about $150 ... all I'm waiting for is for the cost of dual-G4 upgrades to go down.  I'm not TOO terribly concerned about a new graphics card until the Radeon comes down in price either, as I am not really into gaming or 3D work, mainly 2D graphic design for print and web.

But the new iMacs will still be a LOT faster than this tower, with faster motherboards, more efficient processors, faster RAM, better video, etc.  The new iMacs are a REAL BARGAIN at $799.  And I have WAAAAAY more than that to pay off on this thing, believe me


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

Have you seen them yet?


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## AdmiralAK (Jan 6, 2002)

Man do I feel like I;ve been left in the dust -- ok no more sleep for me -- I will eat, drink and sleep MacOSX.com lol

ok so you want good reasons to buy a mac ?

1) Maintanence costs are LOWER than buying a run or the mill PC.  I had my performa 635CD for 5 years before I bought another mac, and the only updates I did on it were some more RAM ($60) and MacOS 8 ($90).  $150 total for 5 years isnt bad at all.

2) No stupid blue screen of death.  Yes I know that XP doesnt have that, XP does something even more stupid, It just reboots itself when something is wrong and it doesnt even tell you what was wrong. -- it goes into protected more, runs tests...bs.

3) Run multiple Operating Systems!  Yes folks, you can run MacOS X, you can run MacOS 9, you can run almost every single x86 (or other) OS out there (hey I am living proof --> Solaris 7, Windows 3.11, GEM, Windows 95,98,ME, NT4, NT 3.51, 2k, XP, BeOS, QNX, OS/2, AmigaOS, Atari GEM, IIgs OS,Rhapsody, NeXTSTEP, OpenSTEP,Linux, etc)

4) Productiiiiiiity!  I mean apps for video, audio, photos, do much better on the mac than on a windows PC.  You can get Office for the mac if you wish, you can get appleworks, you can get whatever.

5) The power of UNIX.  YOu want to use unix, wanna be a geek(expressed in the most endearing way possible ), go ahead be our guest.  Join the unix comminity.

6) INNOVATION.  All these "features" that windows has apple came up with it first.  CD burning from the desktop, bundled movie making software, DVD, firewire and USB builtin.  With innovation comes cutting edge tech and thus the value of teh macine is greater.   By the time the PC industry catches up the only hinderance is this perceived "Mhz inferiority" (bull)

7) Ease of use.  My grandmother could use my mac (even though I wouldnt allow ANYONE close to my mac unsuppervised )

8) Hardware/software integration.  No driver headaches driving you insane providing you with uncomfortable sleepless nights.


Reasons enough ?


Admiral


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## astrodawg (Jan 6, 2002)

OSX doesn't come with an FBI warning and did not have 57 security bulletins last year.


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

hey i'm not a big hardware knowledge guy, but i know the imac comes with built in vga out so that you can view on a tv, partly making it functional as a dvd player among other things. this might be something a dad could appreciate. do the other macs have this?

(i don't spend time tempting myself with things i know i can't afford)


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 6, 2002)

ed, it's ok, i only checked apple because when I buy a system, I try to order and bundle as much as I can with my system so when I finance, it's all put together under 1 bill so buying/searching on third-party sites wouldn't help me. although research on third-party sites would have helped me. plus, i really never knew of any third-party sites...

although, i'm still a bit mad that you call me an Average PC user because I know more than almost EVERY teacher in my school... both middle and high... and even the computer teacher... but it's ok, no hard feelings or anything

well, if he's into programming, isn't the mac the best place? (i'm not sure on that one). since he'd be fairly artistic, the graphics engine in a mac would be excellent, since speed would be significantly increased. music and websites would be great on a mac. and of course, they just look better (a BIG selling point for me! )


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

The most obvious thing we are seeing in it, is that Steve is helping me with getting out of Luxemburg for graphics work and having iMovie instead of IDon'tKnow.


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## edX (Jan 6, 2002)

lol blingbling

i didn't mean to imply you are an average pc user. i meant that you acted like an average user in that one instance.
example - i do stupid things sometimes. that doesn't make me a stupid person 

the "not knowing" was the point i was getting at all along. most pc users just don't know much about macs. agreed?


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Jan 6, 2002)

yea, agreed


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## ZeroAltitude (Jan 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hervé Hinnekens _
> *What is a weak point from Apple is that when you have broadband that you can't connect an other computer to it right out the box. I have never seen this argument, a very strong suggestion... *



Hi all,

What *I* thought Herve meant was that unlike Windows machines today, Mac OSX/OS9.x does not *seem* to have an out-of-the-box configuration for NATing -- that is, you can't just hook your Mac up, out of the box, to your local broadband connection and NAT out the rest of your network over a hub to the Internet.

Now, I don't know much about macs yet -- got my PowerBook G4 667 about 2 months ago, and have done just about everything I can find short of reformatting/repartitioning (which is soon to come!).  Is there NAT out of the box on MacOSX/OS9?  Something like Windows "Internet Connection Sharing"?  Or do you currently need 3rd party software?

-ZeroAltitude


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

I can't say that I have had a sleepless night. It exists from thirdparty software. I can't say that unlike having an other processor the $799 iMac is very usefull. It is a very basical computer, but it is sold in the computershop and finds some spying from cspeople.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 6, 2002)

www.mosr.com any1? It will be very fast superseeded!


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

so now that the new line of macs and iphoto have been released, does anyone have anything to add to this thread or to change from a previous answer?

btw - didn't see my friend today. so i couldn't ask him any specifics.


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## Captain Code (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ZeroAltitude _
> *
> 
> Hi all,
> ...



You can use the natd daemon to do NAT for you in OS X, but not in OS 9.
There are threads here that tell you how to do it, and I don't think it's that hard.


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## iMan (Jan 8, 2002)

I think that the reasons 'why' are getting a bit too complicated.
I mean for a home user that doesn't care about all the tecnical aspects it won't make a differens.

My reasons for the consumer user:

For, say an iMac, you have two cables to connect, power and modem.
The computer is shipped with all the programs most people need. And they are of high quality and easy to lern and use.

Set up is easy and not time consuming. It's stable and you don't have to worry to much about getting infected with virus. To add a printer, scanner etc it won't take you allday and long phone calls to the support. If it made for Mac it's plug and play as it should be.

This is what I think is most important for the normal consumer who's not a computer expert and have no intention to be one. Someone who just want to use the computer and don't want to worry about what makes it all work, just that it does work.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 8, 2002)

What I have spoken about @ Ed Spruiel is that the new Ilamp is so easy to use for videoclips. You synchronise the voice of the performer with the moving of the screen and the music. If the musical  baseline sounds to poorly, you can add an other instrument. You must also have the face of the performer on the screen preventing from being a scary disaster.


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## mrfluffy (Jan 8, 2002)

the new iMac is a great reason to buy

either you'll have the coolest computer available, which regardless of the pessemists is a great computer (the only place i could get the old iMac had the bottom of the range, a 600Mhz with 64MB and OS X installed so it didnt start up, for £800 about $1,200 the same price as the new iMac).

or he could get an old iMac for a dirt-cheap price cos the retailers will be clearing out.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 8, 2002)

Mr Fluffy I know you has something to do with guitars. But I go bankrupt if I'm listening to your advice. I can't even choose my hardware. I have never been very keen in guitarplaying, but in the dactyloclass the teacher was forcing me to type blind and softwarecontrolled. They have judged at the university to study 2 modules instead of 3 or 4, because they are seeing that I have serious problems, and even to stop studying. You know Steve Jobs can kiss my ass!


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## edX (Jan 8, 2002)

> You know Steve Jobs can kiss my ass!



huh? where did that come from herve? what is bothering you buddy? feel free to reply in dutch in order to express youself properly on this one - we'll find someone to translate!!!

that statement really threw me coming from you.


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## tagliatelle (Jan 8, 2002)

This Athlon 900 mhz and Toshiba 475 Mhz has everything except that dirty Performa that needs very special code to be different. It is not as dirty as that Zillion Pc(can't be betterd). Headache They have also something like this @ the university.


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## vanguard (Jan 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *2) No stupid blue screen of death.  Yes I know that XP doesnt have that, XP does something even more stupid, It just reboots itself when something is wrong and it doesnt even tell you what was wrong. -- it goes into protected more, runs tests...bs.
> *



Just to keep everybody properly informed, XP and w2k can each do both.  Way back since NT 3.51 you have had the option to automatically reboot when the system crashed.  You don't get the BSOD but you can check the logs if you want to know what happened.

What different in XP is that this behavior (rebooting after a crash) is now the default.

As for why they should buy a Mac, I think the new iMac is a great reason to switch to the Apple world.  It's fast, cheap, stable, functional, attractive, and fun.  PCs are fast, functional, and cheap but neither fun nor attractive.

Vanguard


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