# Jaguar - Mac OS X 10.2



## fryke (Nov 5, 2001)

Why not go ahead and discuss a little what's missing in Mac OS 10.1.x? And I don't mean this or that app is not yet carbonated. I mean the OS itself.

Those features I would like added:

- Better optimisation for portables (Energy saver)
- Better graphics drivers (More speed is still possible)
- Spring open folders (like in OS 9, but also and mostly in Column view)
- Free appearance variants (a bit like in OS X Server 1.x, not only Aqua & Graphite)
- Better Dock (I want to be able to totally shut down the Dock in Prefs)
- Much better Dock (I want to be able to shut down all FX separately)
- Finder must be replacable Backdrop App (Setting in Prefs, let Free-/Shareware devs make better/different alternatives)
- Multiple Desktops (You've got pro users, Apple!)

Generally, I like Mac OS X to be simple for consumers, but I want the OS to be flexible for pros.

Please try to keep your answers on track. OS related. Let's talk what Apple should do, not what third party software developers should do. For example I don't think that Apple should provide a themes engine. Someone like the guys who did Kaleidoscope could do that.


----------



## brodie (Nov 5, 2001)

what would you use multiple desktops for? enlighten me.


----------



## ulrik (Nov 5, 2001)

never used linux, eh? Multiple desktops is a dream! It's nearly like having four monitors. I am running on a Cinema display, and I have to hide all my admin/diagnose apps because they take up space on the screen. With multiple desktops, I could, for example, stick all my terminal, console, netinfo, network utility, sysprefs and other windows on one desktop. At the same time, I could have one "browser" desktop  with the windows of different browsers, while on a third desktop I am working in GoLive and I switch between them to check how it looks in the different browsers. I could stick windows like render views from Cinema on another Desktop...maybe Apple could even do it so that you can "turn" to another desktop when your mouse is long enough on one edge of the screen...multiple desktops is such a great thing, and it can't be that hard to implement...


----------



## KKJ (Nov 5, 2001)

Should the dock follow you when you change desktop, stay in the "main" desktop or should there be a seperate dock for each desktop?

By the way, spring-loading folders are usefull. I sure hope they appear in X.


----------



## Mac Write (Nov 5, 2001)

I would like to see:

Video out (mirring etc) for RCA out for the people with personality cards
Startup and Shutdown in the Energy control panel
When clock launches on login for it to keep it's preferences (not defaulting back to the dock)
More optimazation for better preformance
MySQL included
Dividers for the dock so u can seperate Application types etc
select which user group has promission to access a file in the Get Info
In the User CP be able to select which user groups a user is assigned to (good for only allowing parents in a Family access to certain files)
built in Guest account with super restricted access
change file/folder owner via a Authentication lock in the Get Info


I will add to the list when I think of some other things


----------



## brachiator (Nov 5, 2001)

I agree with all of the above, and would add multiple login sessions.  Administrators, at least, should be able to run multiple logins -- say one admin and one root session...

There should be some sort of secure switching, so that all the sessions could be running at once, but to switch between sessions you'd have to enter a password -- i.e., a mini-login, but the session would already be running so it would be instantaneous access.

That way I could run, say, my primary "admin" session, a root session for monkeying around with otherwise restricted files,  and a super-restricted "guest" session as described in an earlier post, for friends who dropped by and wanted to check their emails (without having access to my documents, etc).

If I had kids this would be both essential and convenient!  

Oh yeah -- speed, speed, speed! ;-)  Support for rendering through the video card on my Lombard 333 would be nice.

I agree that the theme stuff is probably better handled through 3d parties -- these are labors of love by the themers, and it is not necessary for apple to duplicate it... hell, Metamorph X is rumored to become a preference panel by v. 4.0!  BUT, Apple could and should make it easier on themers by cleaning up, centralizing, and simplifying the distribution of appearance resources in the OS.  From what I hear, one of the problems in theming is that there are a number of elements strewn all over the place, and especially when it comes to the appearances of individual apps.  

BTW -- is there any intention to send the contents of this thread to Apple? Or is it up to all of us individually?


----------



## kcmac (Nov 5, 2001)

I would mainly just like to see an emphasis in the early updates towards those of us that know very little about unix. Concentrate on making the OS easier and faster. 

For a lot of us, OS X is still a little spooky. Hard to back up, what happens when you have a problem, etc. 

I have been using OS X every day since I got my iBook this summer. (I ordered at the same time it was announced.) This is my work machine. I have had some very gut wrenching moments I can assure you. But I love OS X. The only time I had a hard crash was because I renamed my Application folders. Got that start up kernal panic thing. No one on the boards really knew what to tell me except to make sure I reported back with what eventually happened. 

The more comfortable Apple can make it to us long time Apple users that aren't IT minded, (and don't want to be) the better.


----------



## Snyper M (Nov 5, 2001)

Among all  the other things already mentioned...

~Color coding of folders?   I really liked this feature, made everytihng so easy to organize.  THey could possibly have a little RGB slider for choosing whatever shade you want even.  I'm sure this is possible.

~Being able to drag-n-drop files into folders aliased on the dock.  i'm not sure if you guys consider this spring loaded folders, but if not..this would also be welcome.

~Password protected folders.  I don't want to have to quit applications and log into my admin account to access certain folders.  I mentioned this in previous post as well.

~Maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing the option that allows programs to access the keychain without asking for a password, yet still making you put in a password to access it yourself.  It's kind of a pain to type in my password for entourage/mail/eudora/whatever to check my mail.   But I can't leave the keychain open.

~Always room for speed imporvements...especially with Quicktime.

~A graphical samba browser i.e. Network Neighborhood ala PCs *shudder*

~Maybe some more XP ish stuff they have and we don't for one reason or another.  I dare say their multiple user system is interesting, though there are other areas I'd liek to see worked on before this gimmick of logging out but running programs in the background etc.

I'm sure I'll think of others...but as of right now i'm really more than satisfied with OSX.1.   We've got great things in store for us dammit.


----------



## mindbend (Nov 6, 2001)

OS X wish list

LabelsThis much underused feaure of OS 9 is critical to organizing files for me. Also, team development is aided by labels (e.g. Orange="Finished")

Ability to see info totals when selecting multiple items in Column viewcurrently have to launch Get info window.

Show how many items in a folder when Get Info window showncurrently shows Size, but not quantity.

Pro level PDF supportPrint to PDF good for proofing, but not necessarily for press ready output.

Native font managementauto-activation and font grouping via folders would be awesome. Currently fonts can't be in subdirectories to be recognized. Also, font locations are a confusing mess.

Easier printing as PDF, still kind of clumsy. Especially if you don't have a Postscript printer, you have to create a virtual printer, then choose output optionsrint as PDF...very clumsy. Just somehow let me "Save as PDF" from any application.

Can't edit print center printer options without deleting and recreating.

Ability to retain hyperlinks in PDFs "printed" from web pages (all part of that "Save as PDF" thing.

System-wide single keystroke reception in dialogs ("D" for Don't Save, "S" for Save, etc.)inconsistent now.

Speed, speed, speed

Command+W sometimes closes just the window, not the whole App and vice versa, inconsistent (e.g. Command+W Quits "Key Caps" but not "CPU Monitor", huh?)

USB printer sharing over a networktres cool in 9

Springloaded folders

Option+drag to relocate dock a la control strip in 9

System level keyboard shortcut programming for launching apps


----------



## lelereb (Nov 6, 2001)

Insert the holding down of the mouse button as an alternative of ctrl-click.


----------



## simX (Nov 6, 2001)

I'd just like to point out a few things that are already in OS X, or some things that would be impractical:

¥ Shift-click on the divider of the dock, and then you can drag it to relocate it to the left or the right of the screen.

¥ Holding down the mouse is already an alternative to ctrl-click in the dock, anyway.  It might be kind of clumsy in the Finder, but I think not many people would use it, given how many people are complaining about the length of time it takes for a click-hold to register the menu in the dock.

¥ Get info windows DO show totals, both in combined size of the selected objects, and in the amount of items selected.  Something that might be confusing you is that, contrary to the Classic Mac OS, selections inside a window are preserved when switching windows, but they aren't registered as "active" selections unless the window is active.  So therefore (and you can try this out), you can select a folder inside one partition, and switch to another folder on another partition and select two objects and get info on them -- the get info window will show the info for those last two objects, not including the original selection, even though it still is visually selected.

-- My addition to the wish list would be a tabbed dock.  Therefore, I can have a tab for applications, one for documents, one for minimized windows, and then maybe a combined one where I can pick and choose between all the elements.


----------



## fryke (Nov 6, 2001)

> _Originally posted by simX _
> *My addition to the wish list would be a tabbed dock.  Therefore, I can have a tab for applications, one for documents, one for minimized windows, and then maybe a combined one where I can pick and choose between all the elements. *



Yes, the Dock could use more features. But again I would make that optional, so that people who have only five to ten icons in the Dock can keep it the way it is.

It'd be a bit more like DragThing - and that's why I want the Dock to be replacable by a third party utility. Apple doesn't have to fill the Dock with features that some people want and others don't. But an API for a Dock replacement would be nice. But remember that such launchers would not only have to replace the launching function - but also the minimized windows.

 One must be able to replace Dock with alternatives
 One must be able to replace Finder with alternatives

And I'd like to be able to do that not through hacks but through an API. And of course it would have to be user-centric, not systemwide (which doesn't allow the Dock.app to be erased or renamed so it can't be restarted, what would be the hack-type I meant).


----------



## Dekatophil (Nov 6, 2001)

What I'm really missing is support for right-to-left scripts (like Arabic, Hebrew etc.). This needs to be adressed soon. Lots of linguists are using Apple computers+SW. They'd all be very thankful for it. Actually, Apple used to be a forrunner in this, but now has to catch up with e.g. Win XP.


----------



## jimr (Nov 6, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Jaguar - Mac OS X 10.2 _
> *
> Why not go ahead and discuss a little what's missing in Mac OS 10.1.x? And I don't mean this or that app is not yet carbonated. I mean the OS itself.
> *



I am having a problem... everytime I use a carbonated app I have to XP

but seriously...
"Want apple to do this or that...."  Apple will continue to do...that is clear, and the things they do ... not so bad.... in fact, spectacular.

Try to remember, that unlike a certain Overgrown monopoly they leve some things to third party developers.  What's more,  that is not some remote organization with a big budget to buy special hardware and  software waving dead chickens around and drinking goats blood on the full moon... Hey that's you... that's me...   Why?   Because they give the Developer tools away for free.

The documents are sitting ther inside your machine....

you can go out and download a plethora of basic applications and code samples for free.

Yeah...yeah.. Unix is spooky, this don't operate like a Mac....   Don't you see this is where things have been going?  High powered machinery sitting in front of you... better learn how to use it.

WAHHHH!!!! I cut off my toes with the Chainsaw  ...shit happens... but I bet you never do that juggling trick again...


If you want to make a contribution do something.... speculating on these forums and whining about everything  that is not ...just so...  That will make XP your worst nightmare... The next business default...

Microsoft will earn for every mouse click and every keystroke you make  ... and every time you pull out your "Digital wallet"  ..."Ching!"   More money in their pockets.

If you wake up every day and think what can I do to make my Mac better....

A whole community will benefit...Unix users and Mac GUI users... and we stay free.

Otherwise, start arranging your finances.  Your Kids will still be paying microsoft when you are dead......

So write down your wish list here ...but don't wait for someone else to do it...

Microsoft is reading these posts
They have been watching this experiment for years.....  They watch, they imitate, they never innovate,  just skim all the great ideas.  Especially the ones that people indicate they are willing to wait for.   They are the masters of making you wait for the next great release.

So, make a TODO list, get your friends involved,  get people excited, then don't forget to DOIT.....

[/end_preach]


----------



## scruffy (Nov 6, 2001)

Fix for the braindead bug (introduced in 10.1) that stops, among other things, pine, from working - when a child process exits, parent process receives SIGBUS (bus error, ie. you just crashed, please die *now*) instead of SIGCHILD (ie. child process exited successfully, carry on. )
Working printer sharing - USB printer sharing, LPD client that works, ideally LPD server printing to USB printers...
Finder integration of more sorts of file sharing - NFS, Samba and AFP work now, I believe - FTP, and SFTP should be added.  Maybe more types, that's just all I would use right now.
Control panel for the included firewall and NATD.  Yes, Brickwall is a great app, but it's developed by someone outside Apple, so an Apple update might clobber it at any time.  Not to mention, there's no excuse for not including a simple front-end to the firewall and connection sharing.  Windows has this nice little "Internet connection sharing" control panel - M$, so it doesn't work worth a darn, but it's easy in theory...
Working floppy drives in older G3s.  Not that it will happen, but it's darned inconvenient to have a bunch of data on floppies that you just can't get at.
And the biggy, the one we all know won't happen, a redesign of NetInfo, so that regular users can't get root passwords without at least a little hacking.


----------



## Snyper M (Nov 6, 2001)

Also i just remembered this when some idiot pc user zoomed one of my windows cuz they're big on maximizing things for some reason...

In any case, for those rare occasions when that lil resize tab is stuck down in the corner , especially under the dock where it's virtually impossible to use; i would liek to see the option to resize windows fomr any corner or side ala windoze. Granted htis may be too ocmplicated for some lower level users but having an option for this could be greatly appreciated.

Alsi i was thinking about that hue slider i mentioned for folders to let you color code them whatever.  Why not apple this srt of thing to oall aqua elements? that would rock.  Could you imagine graident filled aqau buttons maybe even? whoa..yeah wishful thinking I know

also the keychain thing is really pissing me off if i lock it but allow certian applications to view it, i shouldn't have to unlock the keychain...


----------



## mindbend (Nov 6, 2001)

simX wrote this in response to some of my requests. I'll respond in bold due to laziness and lack of knowledge of how to do it better:

I'd just like to point out a few things that are already in OS X, or some things that would be impractical: 

¥ Shift-click on the divider of the dock, and then you can drag it to relocate it to the left or the right of the screen. 

YES, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. THANKS FOR THE TIP.

¥ Holding down the mouse is already an alternative to ctrl-click in the dock, anyway. It might be kind of clumsy in the Finder, but I think not many people would use it, given how many people are complaining about the length of time it takes for a click-hold to register the menu in the dock. 

AND WHAT'S WITH IT TAKING SO LONG TO ENTER EDIT MODE FOR RENAMING FILE NAMES? IS THIS ADJUSTABLE?

¥ Get info windows DO show totals, both in combined size of the selected objects, and in the amount of items selected. Something that might be confusing you is that, contrary to the Classic Mac OS, selections inside a window are preserved when switching windows, but they aren't registered as "active" selections unless the window is active. So therefore (and you can try this out), you can select a folder inside one partition, and switch to another folder on another partition and select two objects and get info on them -- the get info window will show the info for those last two objects, not including the original selection, even though it still is visually selected. 

PERHAPS I DIDN'T CLARIFY MYSELF. GET INFO DOES INDEED SHOW HOW MANY "FOLDERS" ARE SELECTED, BUT NOT HOW MANY ITEMS WITHIN THOSE FOLDERS. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THREE FOLDERS, GET INFO, AND TELL HOW MANY ITEMS ARE IN THOSE FOLDERS AS A TOTAL. SEEMS EASY ENOUGH. ALSO, IN COLUMN VIEW (MY FAV) THE FAR RIGHT "SUMMARY" PANEL DISAPPEARS WHEN YOU SELECT MULTIPLE ITEMS. WHY? JUST SHOW CUMULATIVE INFO. IF I AM WRONG ON ANY OF THIS, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN SEE SAID INFO. THANKS.


----------



## billybob (Nov 6, 2001)

overall i'm very pleased with osx, especially after 10.1 came out.  there's only 3 things that I think OSX could really use:

1. virtual desktops. I cannot elaborate enough on how useful these are.  Not to everyone, obviously, but "pro" users, and the "UNIX crowd" that OSX kind of appeals to, would certainly appreciate it.  Nearly anyone coming from a UNIX background will be severely disapointed, since virtual desktops exist for so many different flavors of UNIX.  They are so useful if you have more than 2-3 apps open at a time... especially if you do any sort of development (programming, or web stuff).

2. windowshade.  I know a third party utility came out, and I actually paid for it (only 7 bucks), and it is very nice.  But it would be nice to see apple implement this into the OS. I mean, what a trivial feature.  And it's so useful.  Not to everyone, of course... but if i dont have virtual desktops, i NEED windowshade.  i HATE having to minimize stuff to the dock. its a total waste of time.

3. speaking of the dock... let me customize it, god damnit! the talk that's been talked many times before of multipe docks... well, that would be a nice addition. I would only need two.. one for apps, one for windows.  it would also be nice to have the option of having the dock span the entire horizontal or vertical distance of the screen, so that things dont move around all the time. so if your dock was on the bottom.. apps would be justified left, windows and the trash would be justified right. or however the hell you want it, because we should be able to CUSTOMIZE it!!

anyway.. other than those, OSX is doing me very nice.


----------



## simX (Nov 6, 2001)

OK, mindbend, one tip for the boards.  Use open-square bracket, capital B, then close-square bracket for bold.  Then you stop bold by doing that with /B in the middle.  So it looks like this:

(B) textyouwantboldhereblahblahblah (/B)

Only when you do it for real, you use square brackets instead of parentheses.  I couldn't do it because otherwise it would put that text in bold and you wouldn't see what I'm talking about.   If you want to quote me, you can just press the 'Quote' button in the window that says my response, and then the board will automatically insert the code that makes it so that I know what you're referring to.

The way you did it made it look like you were yelling at me. 

Anyway, as per your responses:



> AND WHAT'S WITH IT TAKING SO LONG TO ENTER EDIT MODE FOR RENAMING FILE NAMES? IS THIS ADJUSTABLE?



Yeah, that's annoying too.  It's not adjustable -- maybe if someone finds a UNIX hack for it, though.  That would be awesome.  The other thing that really annoys me is that in a lot of programs, including the Finder, the cursor is HIDDEN while moving around in the filename as opposed to always visible, so the effect is that you can't see where the cursor is going to end up.  Very annoying.



> PERHAPS I DIDN'T CLARIFY MYSELF. GET INFO DOES INDEED SHOW HOW MANY "FOLDERS" ARE SELECTED, BUT NOT HOW MANY ITEMS WITHIN THOSE FOLDERS. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THREE FOLDERS, GET INFO, AND TELL HOW MANY ITEMS ARE IN THOSE FOLDERS AS A TOTAL. SEEMS EASY ENOUGH. ALSO, IN COLUMN VIEW (MY FAV) THE FAR RIGHT "SUMMARY" PANEL DISAPPEARS WHEN YOU SELECT MULTIPLE ITEMS. WHY? JUST SHOW CUMULATIVE INFO. IF I AM WRONG ON ANY OF THIS, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN SEE SAID INFO. THANKS.



Ah.  I see what you mean.  Yes, that information doesn't show up, unfortunately.  And you are totally correct about the column view non-feature.

Apple still has a long way to perfecting the GUI in Mac OS X, but it's done an awesome job of taming UNIX -- down to the very point of not letting a normal user see ANY command line if (s)he doesn't want to... even startup shows not a LINE of UNIX!  That's very impressive.  Just make sure that when you post here, you also send a feedback letter to Apple at www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ .  That way Apple knows exactly what you want.


----------



## simX (Nov 6, 2001)

I just posted, and saw someone else posted right before me that I have something to say about.

billybob: The dock CAN be pinned to one end of the screen.  It's a hidden feature.  To activate it, you just need to download TinkerTool, which is freeware, and which you can get from www.versiontracker.com/macosx .  It's a preference pane, which is very handy too, and it has some other nice features.

When you download it and install it (there should be a folder called PreferencePanes somewhere in the Library of your user folder or of the System folder), just open your System Preferences application, and click on "TinkerTool" in the "Other" category.  Then in the "Desktop" pane that automatically pops up, change the setting of the 'Placement' popup to 'Start Position' or 'End Position'... that way your dock will be pinned to one side.  And to boot, if you like, you can even position your dock at the TOP of your screen, like it slides out from under the menubar.  That's kinda cool, and would actually COMPLY with the "piece of paper" GUI metaphor.

Just wanted to let you know.


----------



## simX (Nov 6, 2001)

... there IS a simple way to "turn off" the dock.

Download TinkerTool like I suggested in my last post.  Then set it to be at the top of the screen.  Then hide it.

Cleverly, Apple realized that the dock would impede the menu bar if the auto-unhiding were to function while the dock is at the top of the screen.  So guess what??  While the dock's at the top, and while you have it hidden, it NEVER comes out!  You can position your mouse anywhere in the menu bar and it never comes out.  To boot, if you DO want to access it.  Just unhide it via Command-Option-D.

Doesn't that just ROCK?  Although the dock is still active.  And combined with Quitling which is basically the Application Menu from OS 9 resurrected for Mac OS X, OS X is even more like OS 9 -- no dock and an application switcher menu!

Clever that Apple thought to disable unhiding while the Dock's at the top of the screen.  I think I like it like this. 

Oh, I should add... the trash won't show up.  And TinkerTool can no longer show the trash on the desktop.  But don't fret.  I have another sweet goodie up my sleeve:

If you plan on using this "No Dock" trick, you can 1) un-hide the dock when you want to access the trash just by pressing Command-Option-D, or and this I love, 2) add it to your Finder window toolbars.  How you say?  Easy.  Make the dock visible.  Click on the trash icon.  Now you see the Trash window.  See the title bar of the window where it has a mini trash icon and the word "Trash"?  Click and hold on the Trash icon.  It will highlight, and you will be able to drag the icon/name from the title bar.  Just drag it into your Finder toolbar and voil.. you've got the Trash right in each and every window.  There's one small problem with this.  The icon of the trash won't update when something is added to the trash or when the trash is emptied... however when you create a new Finder window, the trash will be checked and the icon will display accordingly.  So you might have two Finder windows... one where the trash is full, and one where the trash is empty.  This is a minor inconvenience, though, and maybe someone can make a utility to force those icons to autoupdate.

Have fun you dock haters!   I love the dock, but having it as an addition rather than a requirement is much nicer.


----------



## mailseth (Nov 6, 2001)

Here is my post from this thread:
http://www.macosx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6435

Whats in store in 10.2 and 10.3?? 

Steive said that the os x upgrade cycle is like a clock, right? And 10.1 is 6 o'clock, right? Didn't he say that 10.2 is 9 oclock which would put 10.3 at 12 o'clock. And then, at v10.3, OS X would be ready for mainstream market. (default on startup, advertizing blitz, ect.)

So, my question for the community is: What does apple have in store for the next two major upgrade cycles? I doubt it is only optimizations and bug fixes. What is the OS X team working on right now? Any takers?


My ideas for a kick-a$$ upgrade in the coming months/years are:

It would be cool to have a framework for distributed computing built into the system. Imagine Maya for mac release 2 adding support for this. See Maya. See maya run. See Maya run on 20 G5s at once. See Joe the 3D Artist see Maya. See Joe sh*t his pants. See Joe tell his boss. See Joe's boss buy 20 more Macs for thier network.


Or instead of logging into your computer via terminal (text based), it would be pretty sweet to log in and be presented with your desktop in a window (maybe rendered at half size or as full screen). As you moved your mouse around in the window, all of your clicks would be sent back to your server computer. You could run programs on your computer remotely, or you could have 2 or more ppl log in at once as differnt users and do thier work on your high powered computer (so each person dosent have to buy one). Normal displays are bitmapped (high bandwidth), but because the window drawing in OS X is Quartz based (pdf), you could even log in over a 56K connection and have a reasonable user experience.

That said (pdf based termnal) Apple could give rise to a new business and educational machine. It would have the form factor of a cube, but it wouldn't have a hard drive, it would net boot to a server (remember that demo Jobs gave a while back of 50 iMacs without hard drives all netbooting at once?) From there a kid (educational) or a secertary (business) could launch word and punch out a report or whatever. The actual program would be running on the server machine, but the Quartz data would be streamed out to the client machine to be rendered there. How many instances of word do you think a high end G4 could currently run w/o slowing down. The main advantage of doing it this way is the price of the client machine. All it needs is a proccessor, 64 MB ram, mother board, and a low end graphics card (if you need to use a cd, pop it into the server). This machine would have no moving parts. You could sell these babies for $399 (less if you dont include the keyboard or mouse). Imagine a school or business trying to equip a computer lab with 25 computers. You could currently do this with $999 Dells (pulled out of a$$ number) or $399 Macs + $1700 server. The Dells will run you $24975 + monitors, and the Macs will run you $11675 + monitors. If you are worried about speed ('comon how much processor time does word or explorer use anyway??) you could throw a dual processor Mac in for an extra $2K. Say you want everyone in the class to watch a Quicktime movie, you could offload the decompression (Quicktime layer of OS X) onto the client machine too. Last time I checked, Quicktime streaming server can handle over 1,000 simultanius streams. Summery, make a cheap client machine that only needs to handle the drawing layers of OS X (Quartz, Quicktime, and OpenGL).


One last idea: Enable an auto syncronize across airport networks. Imagine a automatic sync PalmPilot style except over wireless networks. Example: Apple puts a Airport on a street corner in your city. You drive by and your computer automaticly hotsyncs with your email and downloads it for you. Or the weather. Or the news. Or your computer backs up a text document that you have been working on to your remote home computer. You could do some neat stuff.


----------



## McFly (Nov 6, 2001)

Wooow, I was thinking about getting an iBook (pretty cheap for all it provides), but doing some kind of development on a laptop is not very easy (small keyboard, small screen), but it's even worse with no virtual desktop!

I don't think such a feature is very hard to implement, and it could really make my life easier (at least when I use the laptop ;-)

I think I will get an iBook anyway, but I am a bit disappointed...


----------



## Jasoco (Nov 6, 2001)

Well.. I LOVE the Dock, but I'd like to see some more options for it. I'd like to pin the Dock to the left side from the prefs panel. And when it is, the magnification shouldn't push icons off the screen. Instead, shrink surrounding ones. Or improvise. Instead of magnify, raise or glow. So when youmouseover the icon may hop up a few pixels or get a halo of light around it.

Make ALL apps recognize the Dock both when it's on the bottom and the side. I notice even the Finder doesn't sense a left docked Dock. IE is the worst. Apple needs to push MS into fixing IE FAST.

Make it so we can "Undock" the Dock. And when it is undocked, make it have a transparent draggable bar. And it can be oriented either verticle or horizontal.

Make it so when the Dock is pinned to the left or right (Or top or bottom) and hiding is on, the Dock will slide out from the left or right (Or top or bottom respectively)

Multiple Docks. (The second Dock will be a file/folder only Dock. No apps) Yup. I like this new AppleScript approach they have and I'd like a second Dock for maybe just AppleScripts or even more folders or documents. An make it so you can have tabbed second Dock for organization.

Not just the Dock...

I want the Time AND Date displayed at the same time. And make the format of them customizable. i.e. MM/DD/YYYY - H:MM:SS DDD, etc...

I want a Classic top menu for starting/stopping Classic without the Prefs Panel.

Labels. Need em. want em.

Sorting options in Column View.

Resize windows from sides, bottom like Windows. A feature I miss dearly from my darker days.

Themes. Make the OS skinnable. Make the Themes accessable to normal joes. Include an editor with the OS. I think we can see some realy neat Themes that take advantage of Transparency and such. Make the themes scriptable. By which I mean, make it so we can add extra buttons to our custom themes that can be made to do many things. Such as empty trash, resize window in direction you want (see above), etc.

Move Min and Zoom butons back to the right in Aqua theme.

Move the "Application" menu (The bold one) back over to the right and make it look like OS 9.

Put all those OS 9 options that are missing from X into the OS. We need as many options as possible.

More colors in the Aqua theme. MORE I say!

Tear off menus.

A Platinum Theme. Merge the old with the new with this one. The Dock would have borders around the buttons, the OS would look like OS 9 did but cooler.

A NeXT Theme. Yeah, I like it too.

More NeXT elements. I've never used NeXT (Nor have I ever been able to try Linux either) so I don't know all the stuff I could add here.

A plugin for TextEdit that allows you to use basic HTML coding features. Don't make it too good as to compete with BBEdit. Just good enough for people who need only small options.

Um.. That's it for now.


----------



## hazmat (Nov 6, 2001)

- "lock workstation" function in the Apple menu - only being able to do it via screen saver is pathetic

- System-wide home/end functions for text lines, to shoot you to the beginning or end of the line, like in Windows or Unix.  This is something ridiculous for an OS not to have.

- Allow pop-out menus from the Dock, for better organization and to keep it smaller.  The AfterStep window manager for XFree86 allowed this, IIRC.

- I find minimizing kind of silly.  I would much prefer for minimizing to act like hiding, since I can easily right-click on the app in the Dock to access all of its windows.  Much more nicely organized.

- "Copy on select" function in the Terminal

- Finder Pop-like function for Finder.  ESSENTIAL!!


----------



## AlanBDahl (Nov 7, 2001)

>>Or instead of logging into your computer via terminal (text based), it would be pretty sweet to log in and be presented with your desktop in a window (maybe rendered at half size or as full screen).<<

NeXTStep had this feature, called "nxhost". I suspect it would not be that difficult to implement it in OSX. I have even heard rumors that someday you might be able to run OSX via "nxhost" on a PC running windows.


----------



## macaudiX (Nov 7, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Jasoco _
> I want a Classic top menu for starting/stopping Classic without the Prefs Panel.



Look in /System/Library/CoreServices/ and you'll find *Classic Startup*. Put that into your dock to launch OS 9 at any time without needing to open the Prefs or an OS 9 app.


----------



## benpoole (Nov 7, 2001)

ATI Rage Pro _et al_ ...


----------



## Jasoco (Nov 7, 2001)

> _Originally posted by macaudiX _
> *
> 
> Look in /System/Library/CoreServices/ and you'll find Classic Startup. Put that into your dock to launch OS 9 at any time without needing to open the Prefs or an OS 9 app. *


I don't wany it running all the time. That's why I want the menu.

I only use Classic once every like two or three days.


----------



## mahakk (Nov 8, 2001)

how about a file-filter a la mail.app in the toolbar?
i'd love to just see tiffs, pdfs, mp3s, whatever. combined with labels this would be a winner (like "only show 'unfinished'...".


----------



## NielZ (Nov 8, 2001)

@ The main thing: crash-free OS. Sounds weird to some of you, but I get a lót of OS X craches... . Ik think changing the sounds volume shouldn't be a reasen to quit all apps, and re- and re- and re- and re- and re- and re- and restart the Finder. Sure the X diehards will get it running again and technically it's not crashed, but it's useless. 
Kernel panics. I can dream them. Moving the mouse to hide your screensaver... i agree, a VERY *kuch* complex instruction...
Blue Screen Of Death. The blue you see when it starts up, and nothing you can do. Control-esc brings up the Shut down menu, but no buttons respons. Command-Alt-Esc brings up the Force Quit menu, but there ar no apps running...

@ Printer sharing like OS 9

@ some speed, also for the guys who CAN'T afford a MP-G4.... 

That's it for now. Very nice OS in general, just 'zet de puntjes op de i' (like we say in Holland )


----------



## pbrice (Nov 8, 2001)

For all of those looking for Virtual/Multi Desktops, there is an App/Dockling out there, I think it's called *spaces* .  Check Apple's OS X downloads page or even versiontracker for it.  It gives you virtual configurable desktops that you can switch between with  a click of the mouse in the Dock icon (ie, Dock menu pops up listing your desktops),...

I would love to see a color slider for folders.  Select a folder, Show Info, go to Pick Color...

I downloaded the windowshade X hack and love it and the Ctrl+Double Click Title Bar to get Transparent Window.  Cute feature.

I patiently waiting for some implementation of SPringloaded folders.  I love being able to drag+drop to Docked folders, but I wish I could also navigate deeper into the nested folders thorugh the Dock menu and drop.  I guess it would have to be an Option Drag+Drop because now if you have a nested folder highlighted in a Dock menu and you let go, it's Finder Window opens (love that).

To NielZ:  What are you doing, man, a lot of OS X crashes.  I've had OS X since March and had only one kernel panic (caused by hot plugging an external firewire CD-RW in without iTunes running in OS X 10.0.3).  I haven't had a single crash since OS X 10.1 - including not a single Finder Crash.  Are oyu on a supported machine?

The only program that dies on me regularily is OmniWeb 4.1 SneakyPeak 7 and IE.  Other than that, I'm smooth sailing.

To thos eof you that have come over from Unix or are new to Mac, you have to try some stuff out.  A LOT of additional features are access with key combos with mouse clicks. 

First off, Mac OS supports click+HOLD and Ctrl+click instead of right mouse click.  In a lot of apps, you can access a contextual menu by clicking and holding without moving the pointer.  It takes about a second for the menu to appear (the OS is waiting to see if you are going to move after you have clicked) but it will pop up.  In the Finder, you need to use Ctrl+click.

Try Option+click, shift+click, Command/Apple+ click on everything.  These always give you soem other options.  
For example, Command+click on the icon in the title bar of any window, and a menu pop's up showing you the folder/file's path, and you can navigate back.  Option+click on the same icon, and you can move that folder/file to another location with drag and drop.

Shift+click the Toolbar button in the title bar, the Customize Toolbar sheet rolls out.  Click on the File Menu in an App, then hold down OPtion, and watch your menu's change on the fly (ie, Close turns to close all...).

Anyhoo, I wish I could Command or Control+click on a menu and tear it off...


----------



## PoweMACuser (Nov 8, 2001)

My Point

1. I hope Apple don't follow the way like Microsoft, I want to deselect more when install OS X. I don't like some many programs I don't need. Include IE.
web servers, directory services. I don't think most of us us this. When they are needed, they are reinstallable.

2. More easy configuration. Apple has a lot of settings that all other users want to use, like resource edit, hidden file shown/hidden, destop setting, startup and shutdown services. All these settings are commonly used but Apple seems stupid, don't give us the utilities.

3. UNIX is super big. 1.5GB now. OS Classic is only 32 MB (core only). It seems that the OS X is the plugin form of Classic under UNIX. Now is call window server, event server, ... servers. More UNIX style features can be deleted, and just keep the best for Mac.

4. Preemptive is still now not very Preemptive. Microsoft windows are preemptive, but they are more responsive. Events and Messages translation is two slow. I don't found any other preemptive advanced but only the memory protect, say less crash.


----------



## LordOphidian (Nov 8, 2001)

> _Originally posted by PoweMACuser _
> *My Point
> 
> 1. I hope Apple don't follow the way like Microsoft, I want to deselect more when install OS X. I don't like some many programs I don't need. Include IE.
> ...



I agree with you here, but short of making each little app a package all by its self the current installer config will make this hard.



> *
> 2. More easy configuration. Apple has a lot of settings that all other users want to use, like resource edit, hidden file shown/hidden, destop setting, startup and shutdown services. All these settings are commonly used but Apple seems stupid, don't give us the utilities.
> *



I agree that many things need to be easier to config, but some of the things you mentioned need to stay the way they are... such as startup items, since these can very very easily render a machine unbootable in multi user mode.



> *
> 3. UNIX is super big. 1.5GB now. OS Classic is only 32 MB (core only). It seems that the OS X is the plugin form of Classic under UNIX. Now is call window server, event server, ... servers. More UNIX style features can be deleted, and just keep the best for Mac.
> *



Why don't you just not install the BSD layer? that would get rid of most of the core *nix stuff.  Makes things smaller, but the structure of OS X doesn't lend its self to getting down to 32 mb easily and keeping the base functionality.



> *
> 4. Preemptive is still now very Preemptive. Microsoft windows are preemptive, but they are more responsive. Events and Messages translation is two slow. I don't found any other preemptive advanced but only the memory protect, say less crash. *



this should be better now with nice working and better process schedualing, but I agree that some events take a while to get to the target. Not sure what you are saying about preemptive advanced, but I know that preemptive capablities with proper process schedualing (nice, renice) can make a machine feel very fast and allow it to still run servers in the background and do some heavy work (like compiling) at the same time.


----------



## AppleWatcher (Nov 8, 2001)

You guys are fond of typing, aren't you?


AppleWatcher


----------



## fryke (Nov 8, 2001)

I am even a writer.  http://story.ch


----------



## NielZ (Nov 8, 2001)

> _Originally posted by pbrice _
> *To NielZ: What are you doing, man, a lot of OS X crashes.  I've had OS X since March and had only one kernel panic (caused by hot plugging an external firewire CD-RW in without iTunes running in OS X 10.0.3).  I haven't had a single crash since OS X 10.1 - including not a single Finder Crash.  Are oyu on a supported machine?
> 
> The only program that dies on me regularily is OmniWeb 4.1 SneakyPeak 7 and IE.  Other than that, I'm smooth sailing.
> *



If I only knew what i'm doing... I have a 100% supported Mac, an iMac Ruby 450 mhz. My hardware seems to be fine, because 9 works fine (well it crashes sometimes, but therefore it's 9... ). I don't have extremely much crashes, but 'The most advanced OS in the world'.... mmmmmmmz, hope i'm gonna be old enough to see that running


----------



## Jasoco (Nov 8, 2001)

> _Originally posted by NielZ _
> *If I only knew what i'm doing... I have a 100% supported Mac, an iMac Ruby 450 mhz. My hardware seems to be fine, because 9 works fine (well it crashes sometimes, but therefore it's 9... ). I don't have extremely much crashes, but 'The most advanced OS in the world'.... mmmmmmmz, hope i'm gonna be old enough to see that running  *



Same config as me and mine works perfectly.


----------



## TommyWillB (Nov 8, 2001)

> _Originally posted by mindbend _
> *LabelsThis much underused feaure of OS 9 is critical to organizing files for me. Also, team development is aided by labels (e.g. Orange="Finished")*


Yeah... Absolutely!

I could use it right now as I copy over all of my files from my old machine to my new G4. 

under OS 6,7,8,9 I used to always use colors whenever doing big file movement operations like this. Although I only used OS 6 on a b&w Mac classic, so I did not see the colors. 

(And for anyone too young to remember, "b&w" used to mean "black and white" in the good old days. If you can't imagine, just think "grayscale".)


----------



## vikingstad (Nov 10, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ulrik _
> *multiple desktops is such a great thing, and it can't be that hard to implement... *



Yeah, it's a really great feature, and I use it all the time in X for Linux. However I do understand that it could be a little confusing to get the average Joe to understand this functionality.

But it should be an option, and I don't see it being hard to add either.

I would love it, especially on my iBook, where I am pretty short of screen real-estate! (find myself dragging, minimizing and hiding a lot)


----------



## vikingstad (Nov 10, 2001)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *Why not go ahead and discuss a little what's missing in Mac OS 10.1.x? And I don't mean this or that app is not yet carbonated. I mean the OS itself.*



I like all your ideas, but also have some more to add:

1. Possibility to grab windows in the edges, and hold down a key to resize them.
2. Multiple active logins, ala WinXP. (you can log out, but your apps are still in the background so login in again will get you back where you left. Great in shared environments, like family-homes)
3. Better multithreaded Finder. (especially when connecting to network drives as iDisk)
4. FTP-support in the Finder. (this is still the standard for file transfer)


----------



## vikingstad (Nov 10, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Jasoco _
> *I don't wany it running all the time. That's why I want the menu.
> 
> I only use Classic once every like two or three days. *



There is no need for a menu, cause Classic actually goes asleep when there are none classic apps running, so it doesn't take any resources.


----------



## simX (Nov 10, 2001)

I'd just like to remind you guys that you should send Apple some feedback: www.apple.com/macosx/feedback .  Especially about multiple desktops and labels in the Finder.  I even more like the idea of the screen "turning" when you change virtual desktops.. that would be awesome... and that could be combined with the XP feature of multiple users logging in at once... you could have a little arrow on the side of the screen or in the menubar or something to change to a different virtual desktop, and if it's for a different user, it would ask for a password before "turning" the screen.  Of course, users could create multiple desktops for one login.

Also, for you people out there who want labels -- here's a semi'solution for the time being.  Go into some graphics program and make a picture.. about the size of a normal Finder window that you use -- and put different colors in it -- for example, you could have 4 colors -- green, red, blue, and yellow taking up one quadrant of the picture, and it would be modestly sized.  Then, save it, and then go to view options for a specific window, and set the window picture to the image you just created (you can even set the global settings to have an image in the background of the default Finder window).  Now you can just drag icons into the appropriate color of the window, and it acts like labels, even though the OS doesn't really know that.  It's not an elegant solution or one that's ideal, but it should work until Apple includes labels.


----------



## scruffy (Nov 10, 2001)

vikingstad - you mentioned WinXP 'active logins'

On the Linux systems at school, the KDE has a wonderful feature, where your login session is saved between computers too

Log out of one computer, leaving a bunch of apps running in the background.  They are not left running, as this would be inefficient, but their state is saved.  Then log in to any other computer in the lab, and all the same programs start up, with in exactly the same state (as far as possible) - your editor has the same files open, your browser is on the same webpage, etc.

I wonder if this might be done through NetInfo - logging into any computer in the same NetInfo domain would present you with an environment exactly the same as you left behind, even if not on the same computer...


----------



## fryke (Nov 10, 2001)

Much underestimated feature, yes.

No this is *not* a temporary solution to replace labels.  The REAL feature of labels is that you can sort lists by them and you can tag files and you'll find them in a bunch of unlabelled files even after you moved them or changed the view.

I used to label all active extensions, so I could install an application and see what was installed by it in the extensions folder.

Really love them and I did send feedback to Apple. I really hope they'll get that back into 10.2 or so.

Btw I'm glad that the thread has mainly stayed on track and went on and on. The latest post about virtual desktops seems (partly a nice idea).

The difficulty for Apple to introduce multiple desktops is that it might confuse first-time users. ("I opened the app, I'm sure, but it's gone now...") So they have to find a way of doing that in a consumer-friendly way. *My* suggestion is still to - over time - introduce more professional (or 'power user') features that are not active by default.

Let the pros decide what eye-candy they want - and give them additional features.

File handling was always a *main* reason for people to use Macs. And it let me do stuff much faster than on any other operating system. Mac OS 10 (and 10.1) was a step backward although column view is a step forward in my opinion.


----------



## chevy (Nov 11, 2001)

I would like to be able to manage my Mac like I was doing on the Sun machine at University. Even if the mac is for the familly with the children, I should be able to play with .cshrc startup files, control the confirgurations of my children, update a series of links with one simple batch command, and move the files around.


----------



## TommyWillB (Nov 11, 2001)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *The difficulty for Apple to introduce multiple desktops is that it might confuse first-time users. ("I opened the app, I'm sure, but it's gone now...") So they have to find a way of doing that in a consumer-friendly way. *My* suggestion is still to - over time - introduce more professional (or 'power user') features that are not active by default...*


Yes. I aways wonder to myself how hard it will be for me to explain a new feature to my Mom... usually via email or over the phone. For a cunsumer OS, it must pass this "Mom test".

With that said, think about the idea of a Simple Finder like the have in 9.x. If they had multiple levels of interfaces, they could have the multiple-desktop think only on the Advanced Finder.

Also, do you all have preferences of virtual desktops vs. oversides desktops that scroll when you hit the edge of the screen?


----------



## Snyper M (Nov 11, 2001)

Maybe i woudl take a lot of coding..bu hwo about thye give us the optinos for lal of these things.  For instance to negate the ahaha "Mom" test, just simply require an admin password to turn it on in the firstp lace in the preference panel.  Moms != Admins  So that fixes that.  and then the scrolling desktop vs. the virtual desktops could be solved by giving us both options...Am I asking too much?  I just love having choices!


----------



## Dougiamas (Nov 11, 2001)

1. PCMCIA support.
2. PCMCIA support.
3. PCMCIA support.

A "digital hub" should let you connect PCMCIA storage cards like Compact Flash and memory sticks.  10.1 doesn't yet support this feature in Powerbooks (although it worked great in OS 9).


----------



## RHITMacMan (Dec 29, 2001)

> Control panel for the included firewall and NATD. Yes, Brickwall is a great app, but it's developed by someone outside Apple, so an Apple update might clobber it at any time. Not to mention, there's no excuse for not including a simple front-end to the firewall and connection sharing. Windows has this nice little "Internet connection sharing" control panel - M$, so it doesn't work worth a darn, but it's easy in theory...



I totally agree on this point.  This is something that has been missing from the Mac for a long time.  Our Windows buddies have been able to share their internet connection since like Windows 98, not sure, perhaps even in Windows 95.  The really sucky thing is that they can only share it with other Windows clients and not with Mac clients, so households with both Mac and Windows computers cannot easily share a connection.  I think Apple should implement some of the NATD features in a system preference panel so one could enable internet connection sharing on the Mac.  Ideally, enabling this feature would allow one to share a connection with any other computers on your home network, whether they be a Windows machine,  Mac machine,  or even a Linux machine.  This is the feature I am really crossing my fingers for in the next update, perhaps 10.1.3.  It would be even greater if you could share your connection over multiple connection mediums including RJ45 Ethernet, 802.11b wireless, and perhaps even FireWire like some Windows clients I have heard allow.

_________________________
RHITMacMan


----------



## karavite (Dec 31, 2001)

My 2 cents - I agree with ulrich (way back at the second post). Multiple/virtual desktops is the way to go. I have dual 19" monitors but I find that using a single monitor with multiple desktops on XDarwin and/or Linux is even more convienient for managing mutiple applications. Of course, multiple desktops with dual monitors will allow even more flexibility. I'm getting a major woody just thinking about it.  

No offense but scrolling desktops is a bad idea. I think new users could handle multiple desktops as long as there was a clear visual indicator similar to but much better than what is provided for in Enlightenment, KDE or Windowmaker.

Seriously, if you ever had dual monitors or mutiple desktops you just can't go back to a single screen. It makes a computer so much more powerful. We have a true multitasking OS - now give the user the ability to multitask just as well as the OS!


----------



## chevy (Dec 31, 2001)

Good point.

And what about one display full OS9.2 and one full 10.1 ? So that we finally have full compatibility ? They could even be set to different resolutions if needed !


----------



## karavite (Dec 31, 2001)

> And what about one display full OS9.2 and one full 10.1 ? So that we finally have full compatibility? They could even be set to different resolutions if needed !



That would be interesting, but I'm betting Apple wants to get away from OS 9 as soon as it can! I know I do! I booted off of 9.2 the other day and found myself clicking away expecting it to handle all the multitasking OS X has completely spoiled me with. I'm not a graphics person or someone who needs to use a great deal of classic apps, but I can understand how the whole thing would be a pain. How about XDarwin on one monitor and OSX on the other instead?

Speaking of different resolutions, (you probably know this) OS9 and OS X allow each monitor to have its own color depth and resolution, but I keep them both the same - otherwise it is just too weird for me.

One more thing - it doesn't give multiple desktops but I use a little application in my dock called "Show Desktop" that simply hides every open app on OS X. I find it to be useful when things get crazy. I used to use a QuicKeys shortcot for this, but the dedicated app is much better.


----------



## JohnnyV (Dec 31, 2001)

What exactly are spring loaded folders? I've been using the Mac OS since 7.6, but what is their purpose? Isn't it just the little rectangles that follow the opening of a window?-those are already in OS X, so what are the spring loaded folders?


----------



## ksv (Dec 31, 2001)

Nope, spring loaded folders is that folders/disks automatically opens after a second or two if you drag an object over it -pretty handy, and I used it all the time in OS 9, and this is the only feature that really misses in OS X, I really hope it will appear soon, at least in 10.2! 

BTW, I really think Apple should hire some guys to read through the Press 3 forums and scan it completely for ideas/suggestions, -there are a lot of cool ideas here, so please post them all to Apple, and we'll defineately get a better OS. We should better do it now when OS X still is in development stage


----------



## JohnnyV (Dec 31, 2001)

I love those! and dearly miss them! Can't wait to get them back!  Any one know or hear any rumors as to when 10.2 will be out? Will it be a download or an update like 10.1 or will we have to buy it?


----------



## ksv (Dec 31, 2001)

I guess it'll be released sometime next summer and be a complete CD update like 10.1...


----------



## GFive (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RHITMacMan _
> *I totally agree on this point.  This is something that has been missing from the Mac for a long time.  Our Windows buddies have been able to share their internet connection since like Windows 98, not sure, perhaps even in Windows 95.  The really sucky thing is that they can only share it with other Windows clients and not with Mac clients, so households with both Mac and Windows computers cannot easily share a connection.*



Worked fine for me with a Win2K machine and an OS 9 machine


----------



## RHITMacMan (Jan 1, 2002)

I'd be very interested to know more about your setup and what exactly you did to make things work.  I have never been able to get it to work.  Sometimes I've found it even to be sketchy between two Windows computers, let alone a Mac and Windows computer.


----------



## xegan (Jan 1, 2002)

none of my (old but still ticking) SCSI peripherals
are supported in osX.

 - Umax 1200S Scanner;
 - 30 GB external SCSI HD;
 - Yamaha 400 CD-R Drive;

I have to boot into 9.2 to get any of
these devices to work.

I keep trying the latest drivers from the 
Adaptec's 2930 support page, but 
nothing ever gets better.

   'scratch'y'scratch...

My SCSI Zip drive works though...


----------



## RHITMacMan (Jan 1, 2002)

I have a Umax scanner as well that doesn't work, or hasn't, not bothered trying lately.  My SCSI Zip does thankfully work.  My Plextor CD-RW used to give OS X kernal panics.  Thankfully this was fixed in one of the updates and now I can use my Plextor CD-RW for read access, but no burning support as of yet.  From what I have read on the Adaptec Site, Apple has not included burning support for SCSI devices in the kernal and does not plan to either.  Adaptec states that they plan to instead provide their own support for SCSI burners via drivers I assume in their next release of Toast for OS X.  Although, from what I read, I get the impression that burning will only be available for these SCSI devices via the Toast application in OS X and not via any other burning apps like iTunes.

I just wish someone, whether it be Apple or Adaptec, would provide support in OS X for all apps that have burning capabilities.  I know FireWire is the latest greatest thing and is gradually replacing SCSI but there are literally tons of SCSI devices out there old and new.  We need better kernal level SCSI support for burning and other such applications!!!   Long Live SCSI!!!


----------



## GFive (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RHITMacMan _
> *I'd be very interested to know more about your setup and what exactly you did to make things work.  I have never been able to get it to work.  Sometimes I've found it even to be sketchy between two Windows computers, let alone a Mac and Windows computer. *



IIRC, I just enabled a checkbox on the Win2K side (right-click the connection and select 'Properties') and a dialog popped up telling me that I had to set the client computers to use DHCP.  I just set the Mac to use DHCP over Ethernet and it worked.  Myself and a friend were able to simultaneously use telnet-based chat, check email and browse the web on a single 56K connection (without too much of a performance hit).  That's all I can remember as I sold the PC last year.


----------



## thedbp (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ulrik _
> *...multiple desktops is such a great thing, and it can't be that hard to implement... *



Space.dock (a.k.a. Space.app 0.7)
http://space.sourceforge.net


----------



## karavite (Jan 2, 2002)

> Space.dock (a.k.a. Space.app 0.7)



It works! - kind of (Finder windows are persistant on every desktop). If it had a graphic/clickable "dockling" showing all the workspaces and/or keyboard shortcuts to navigate desktops, this would be it.


----------



## karavite (Jan 2, 2002)

Now how do I get rid of this damn thing! Space Dock.

I can't shut it down, I can't kill it (it just isn't on the list!) and it starts up all on its own when I boot up or log in and out.


----------



## thedbp (Jan 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by karavite _
> *Now how do I get rid of this damn thing! Space Dock.
> 
> I can't shut it down, I can't kill it (it just isn't on the list!) and it starts up all on its own when I boot up or log in and out. *



since its a dockling, you can just choose to ignore it and just not create any "spaces," or you can just pull it out of your Dock.

that's it


----------



## karavite (Jan 3, 2002)

> since its a dockling, you can just choose to ignore it and just not create any "spaces," or you can just pull it out of your Dock.



Thanks - I just figured it out. It's too easy to post on this site when I have dumb problems like this!


----------

