# Congrats to nkuvu!



## lethe (May 13, 2002)

OK, i admit, when i posted this thread, the tortoise was only at 997, but i have to go to bed, and i won t be here tomorrow.  

OK, really i just wanted to be the first to congratulate nkuvu on getting 1000.  i know, i jumped the gun!  deal.

nkuvu helps make this place useful, with lots of helpful posts, and makes this place fun, with lots of clever quips and keeps this place lively with an astonishing 17.45 posts per day!  imagine, reaching 1000 posts in less than 2 months!

thanks for making this place what it is, nkuvu.  wouldn t be the same without you!


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## voice- (May 13, 2002)

Yeah, nkuvu, you've been here for a short time, but long enough to get some respect. I admire you and your skills, congrats on the 1000 posts.


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## lethe (May 13, 2002)

OK, i m feeling a little guilty.  i know we all wanted to be the first to give nkuvu this much deserved thread.  i cheated.  

i was just so sure that tortoise was going to reach 1000 tonight, i got so excited, and then it just got really late, with no more posts.  i think i ve recently started to get heavily addicted to macosx.com.  damn you and your friendly, but helpful community!

nkuvu, hurry up and get in here and give us a few more posts, so i can go to bed!  ahhhh!  

congrats again on your furious 1000.


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## nkuvu (May 13, 2002)

Hahahaha, I'm sorry.  

I noticed last night that I had 997 posts.  But the last time I looked before heading off to bed myself, there wasn't anything that I particularly wanted to comment on.  So I waited until this morning.

What better way to show that I am not concerned with post counts?  I mean, I have seen others post one more quick (often useless) post to bring their count up to a nice round number, then say Yay However Many posts!  I could have posted three more times, but like I said, there wasn't anything I had to say at the time.  But rest assured, this is my 1000th post.  So you can all stop waiting on me and go to bed already.   


Thank you for the congratulations, I appreciate it.  But I have to beg to differ with the statement that "it wouldn't be the same without you" and the thanks for "making the place that it is".  I have done no such thing.  _Admin_ deserves those thanks, not me.  And I am sure that Admin would turn it around and thank all of the members.  Which is accurate; given a website such as this, what would it be without its users?  So thanks should go to everyone, not just me.  Besides, if anyone recalls, I went on a "posting fast" to show xoot that I am not concerned with post counts.  I posted twice in four days, and the threads didn't change at all.  So there's proof that I am not responsible for making this place what it is.

What?  Oh, sorry for the long post, I could have sworn I heard someone say "Speech!"  

Thank you.


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## tagliatelle (May 13, 2002)

Congrats for Nkuvu! In exactly 1 month you will pass me, if I don't post at all. I will eat all the chicken for you so you can eat their food.


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## RacerX (May 13, 2002)

I, personally, don't think this place would be the same without you (even if the boards would not actually change). I have read threads for no other reason than because I saw that you posted in them (okay , not the really bad topic ones, but some of the others).

Anyway, at 1000 posts we can sure tell a lot about someone, and I'm glad we've gotten the chance to get to know you.


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## nkuvu (May 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hervé Hinnekens _
> *Congrats for Nkuvu!*


Thanks, Hervé!


> *I will eat all the chicken for you so you can eat their food. *


Uh, does this mean that I have to scratch it off the ground?  


> _Originally posted by RacerX_
> *I have read threads for no other reason than because I saw that you posted in them*


RacerX, I am surprised.  You flatter me.  Oh, wait, I think it might be more along the lines of "Oh, look, let's go see what silliness nkuvu is posting today."  Am I right?  

And if I was arrogant, I might be inclined to say that I make really bad topic threads good.   But I'm not, nor do I believe that at all...


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## edX (May 13, 2002)

CONGRATS WONDER TORTOISE!!

Hey, i pretty much agree with Coach. You have been a great person to have around. You are fun to converse with and have a sense of respect for others. you make the effort to help those in need and to just talk about life. you are a well rounded site member as far as i can tell.

i also think that if anybody went back and checked, they would find you have been making interesting posts from the beginning, not just after you got to know everybody. anyone who would claim you are a post whore is just plain stupid.

of course i also enjoy the fact that you are one of the few who lives in a time zone close enough to mine to keep similar hours as me. it is nice when you are around late at night to talk with.


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## wdw_ (May 13, 2002)

Has anybody else noticed that this is the 1000th thread in the Herve's bar & Grill forum?

Anyway, congrats Nkuvu.


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## nkuvu (May 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *CONGRATS WONDER TORTOISE!!*


Thanks.


> *Hey, i pretty much agree with Coach. You have been a great person to have around. You are fun to converse with and have a sense of respect for others. you make the effort to help those in need and to just talk about life. you are a well rounded site member as far as i can tell.*


Of course.  Is there any other way to post?  

```
if (RacerX == Coach)
{
    print "Ahh...";
}
else
{
    print "Who?";
}
```
Sorry, been programming a bit today (surprise! (I'm a software devloper by trade, so this _shouldn't_ be a surprise to anyone)) and got a little confused.


> *i also think that if anybody went back and checked, they would find you have been making interesting posts from the beginning, not just after you got to know everybody. anyone who would claim you are a post whore is just plain stupid.*


Thanks -- strangely enough I agree with that also. 


> *of course i also enjoy the fact that you are one of the few who lives in a time zone close enough to mine to keep similar hours as me. it is nice when you are around late at night to talk with. *


Ahh, currently we're on the exact same time zone.  Arizona doesn't play that "Daylight Savings Time" garbage, doncha know.  Which means that no one outside of Arizona can ever remember what time it is here.  

Thanks for the congrats, wdw_.  Do I get bonus points for having the 1000th thread in the B&G be my congrats thread?

Arg.  I feel the strange need to respond to everyone who posts in my congrats thread...


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## Valrus (May 13, 2002)

Well, now that you've hit 1000, you _can_ without worrying about people accusing you of trying to bloat your post count. Of course we all know you don't do that anyway. 

Anyway, congrats, worthwhile posts, great person, blah blah blah. I said it already over at Herve's, and I'm sure you're getting embarrassed by now. 

-the valrus


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## nkuvu (May 13, 2002)

Nah, just soaking it all in currently.    Thanks for the kind words over at the B&G, by the way.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (May 13, 2002)

congrats nkuvu...

now, i tell you... i've been here for like, a long time and i've just passed 1000... you've been here for like 8 weeks and are gettin ready to pass me!

is that all you wonder tortoises do?!?! chat?!!?!!



again... congrats... and here's to another 1000!

(let's just hope it doesn't happen in the next 8 weeks or you will soon obliterate Admiral's record )


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## googolplex (May 13, 2002)

congrats!

You really are a great poster around here. Being a recent 1000 post person myself I know how many posts it is . Congrats! I love reading your post you are informative, fun and nice.

Keep going!


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## nkuvu (May 13, 2002)

Well, no, that's not all that Wonder Tortoises do.  

But it's been slow at work, and when I do have something lined up it's testing.  For what I am doing, the test runs anywhere from 15-45 minutes.  During that time I really can't do much with my computer except surf (or post).  So technically I get a lot of free time at work...


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## ulrik (May 14, 2002)

congrats! 


Do you mind giving me a hint on that darn quote you posted in the other thread?


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## nkuvu (May 14, 2002)

Heh, I thought that one would be _sooo_ easy, too.

No one has asked me any questions on it at all.  Think I should remind them of the rules?


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## RacerX (May 14, 2002)

We have had enough _congrats_ threads that I think I can now provide an _Anatomy of a Good Congrats Thread_.

I was lucky enough to have Ed's help with my congrats thread (which he likes to remind me that I have almost killed from time to time).


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## nkuvu (May 14, 2002)

Well, there's no thumbs up on this thread, but now there's an attachment.  The five pages requirement seems a little vague to me -- I have it set to display 20 posts per page, so it might take a while...

And I already got a response from Hervé, so I'm safe there...


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## edX (May 15, 2002)

lol

but you forgot another important criteria - views must be 5-6 times greater than number of replies. people must be lurking, just waiting for your next topic so maybe they will know what to say.  

 

all a successful congrats thread really needs is someone to nurture it and make sure it  doesn't slide out of sight. 

speaking of which, i will resurrect all the classic congrats threads when i get more time next week


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## Klink (May 15, 2002)

Congrats nkuvu.

tada!


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## nkuvu (May 17, 2002)

Thanks, Klink!  That looks good enough to eat...

So Ed, what is keeping you busy these days?  I seem to remember that it is the yard again, but I could be misinformed or misremembering.

Why is it that when I have to get up early I tend to stay up late?  I've been getting really tired during the day, but can't force myself to go to bed at a decent hour.  I mean, come on, it's midnight and I have to work in the morning, and here I am, posting away...

I am excited to go see Episode II (you know, Star Wars?) tomorrow.  What's even better is that my company is paying for a bunch of us to go.  For no apparent reason.  We're a software company, so we have a lot of geeks on staff (myself included).  But that doesn't really justify spending money for us to go see a movie.  Heck, why am I questioning it?  I should just enjoy myself.

And to be able to do that, I suppose I should get some sleep.

'Night all.


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## edX (May 21, 2002)

well, i hope you got some sleep by now. 

i was busy getting the yard and house ready for my GF's son's graduation party. the whole thing is over now. he is just moving his last few possesions into our house as i write this. Very soon, my life will be back to some kind of normal.

i know what you mean about getting up early and staying up late. What my recent experiences in the yard have reinforced to me is that it is what you do in the hours in between that counts. your body seems to need a certain amount of activity each day. and it takes more hours for the mind to provide that activity than it does for the body. at least that's my latest theory 

that, and when the mind is stimulated, it tends to want to work more. when the body gets stimulated it tends to wear down quicker.


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## Kris (May 21, 2002)

Congrats nkuvu! 

I agree with the rest here: You are a great person to have on the board. I actually have you on my buddy-list. I like your posts, and I learn a lot from them. Hope you stick aorund here in the future too. 


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 21, 2002)

Buddy list?  What does that do?  I'm flattered, honestly.

I've learned an amazing amount from these boards, so I don't plan on going anywhere.  My roommate and I are moving in June, so there might be a few days where I am a little quieter (gasp!).  But don't take that as any kind of abandonment...

My sleep schedule has been really strange recently.  The night before last I went to bed at about midnight, then woke up at 6:00 and couldn't get back to sleep.  Just *ping*, I'm awake.  I got to work early, and looked forward to being early for the rest of the week.  Today I woke up at 7:00 and could barely get my eyes open.

I should really get going.  I'm lucky enough not to have set times when I go to work (I need to show up sometime in the morning, preferably before 9:30) but the sooner I go the earlier I can leave.


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## Kris (May 21, 2002)

Buddy-lists doesn't do much really.. But I can click on your name and see the newest post you replied to. Perhaps you have posted something I want to reply to. 

- How is it possible to post so many posts in such a short time?


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 21, 2002)

It's simple.  Read the boards daily, find something that you want to reply to, then press "Reply".  

Mostly it's due to the fact that I have a lot of waiting at my current job.  As I mentioned, I run a lot of tests, which can take anywhere from 5-45 minutes.  In that time I can't do much with my computer, except surf...


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## nkuvu (May 24, 2002)

Okay, so here's my congrats thread, with no interesting conversations.  So let's toss in some controversial words to stir things up:

- abortion
- capital punishment
- war
- politics
- animal rights
- small cute dogs who yak in your bed

Okay, so the last one might not be so controversial to everyone else.  But when your dogs sleep under the covers with you, the last thing you want is for them to yak on you.  Believe me, I know from personal experience.    The controversial part is where I decide whether to let her stay in bed (after cleaning up, of course) or lock her out of the room for the night.






OK, so now that I've waited for a response, I guess I'll start talking to myself...

Hi Nkuvu, how are things?
*Well, Nkuvu, we (that's me myself and I (and my roommate and our three dogs and the tortoise and the four goldfish) kind of "we") are moving in about a week.*
That's exciting, Nkuvu.  Why the move?
*It's mostly so that my roommate can be closer to the University, but also because it's a nicer neighborhood and the house is a lot nicer.*
Oh, I see.  Does it matter to you where you live?  Will you be closer to work or something?
*No, I'll actually be further away, but I'm the one in the household who has the car.*
Oh, look, the dogs just pulled all the covers off of her (her being the roommate, I don't have to specify which her to myself) bed, and made a little nest!
*Self, that's off the subject*
It's OK, no one was looking.  


See how uneventful this is?  

I guess it's a good reflection of the fact that I have never been a good conversation starter.  I mean, I've posted almost 1300 replies to date, and started less than ten of those...



So.  Here I am again.  It's pretty quiet in here.  Too quiet, if you ask me.  But that's OK, I can amuse myself for quite a long period of time.

Hi Nkuvu, how are things?
*Well, Nkuvu, we (that's me myself and I...*


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## edX (May 24, 2002)

well, you often end up amusing me. but i'm easy. in fact Easy Ed used to be one of my real world nicknames 

until you explained, i thought you meant barking by yaking. I was going to bring up the dog next door and the dog at the house behind them that sit and bark and growl at each other icessently at times. they are most annoying. I like my neighbor, i like her dog, but i hate the barking. Sometimes when nobody else is around i yell over to the dog and call her by name and she stops. other times she just growls more. It really does interfere with the tranquility of my new pond 

does having a cat hairball on the comforter count? we had one do that while they were all locked in our room for the party 

so congrats on your move. hope the new place works out for you. moving into nicer is always good even if you have to figure out why at first. I remember not liking the house we moved to in Calif. when i was 12. eventually i came to really appreciate all the advantages it had. It just had different advantages than the one in Tenn. At first i hated that it was even in Calif.. then i realized that was the best advantage it had!!

ok, you continue to raise my curiosity, damn you. what were you doing where you could see the dog pull the covers off the roommate whom we know is a she? Are you really more than just roommates? or do you share a room with seperate beds and you are not a manly man after all? Or are you a manly woman? a womanly woman? a womanly man?   or were you just chasing the dog into the roommates room to get her for the night? (the dog). or does the roommate sleep on the couch now and that is part of why you are moving? 

so many possibilities  

as for animal rights - i have learned the animal is almost always right.


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## RacerX (May 24, 2002)

Maybe if you started a conversation on _capital punishment_ for _small cute dogs who yak in your bed_? There is a controversial subject!

... actually, now that I think about it, that would fall under _animal rights_ wouldn't it?

I would post in your thread more (in any thread more for that matter) if I hadn't been working so much over the last few weeks. Maybe we could get into the _politics_ of _capital punishment_ for _small cute_ animals in a few days when I have more time. 



Then again, maybe we could talk about something else.


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## nkuvu (May 24, 2002)

> or does the roommate sleep on the couch now and that is part of why you are moving?


Bingo.  Give that man a cupie doll.    Another note is that my roommate works as a veterinary technician in the emergency room at the local pet hospital.  (Yes, it's really open 24 hours.  People have a hard time figuring that one out  )  So she was working last night when the dogs were playing in her bed.

We used to live in Washington, as I am sure some of you (all two who posted in my thread last  ) are aware.  In one of the places we lived, the neighbor's house had a deck that overlooked our back yard.  Our dogs were outside, and being a little playful.  OK, they were being unholy terrors, barking and cavorting and all the endearing things that dogs do.    (Don't get me wrong, I love our dogs, they can just be a little much sometimes)  Anyway, I went out to get them to quiet down and the neighbor was standing on the deck, screaming at the dogs.  The dogs saw some stranger yelling at them in their yard, so of course they were barking more.  The neighbor saw me and said "Your dogs have been barking for *two hours*!  If you don't do something about your dogs, _I will_!"  Keep in mind that the dogs had only been out for about twenty minutes.  I was more than furious, that anyone would threaten our dogs, _especially_ since they had a daschhund who would bark incessantly while they were gone all day.  She came over about ten minutes later, trying to sound apologetic.

She complained about all sorts of things that were completely irrelevant ("Our house is so close to the property line, I don't know _why_ this house was built so close to ours" -- well that's because when this house was built, there wasn't any other space for it.  It's your own stupid fault for building on the property line when you have an acre-sized lot.  And on and on).  I told her that I really didn't appreciate threats to my dogs, and if she had a problem with the dogs yelling at them wouldn't do anyone any good.  She was shocked that I thought she was threatening the dogs, and promised to come over if she had further problems.  I silently promised to myself that I guess the whole idea of cleaning the yard by tossing excrement onto her deck would be a bad idea.  

Anyway, to make a long rant a little less long, if the dogs knows you I'm sure you can probably talk to her and get her to quiet down.  If the problem continues, talk to the owner.  They might not even be aware that their dog is "talking" to the neighbor.  We've found that a squirt bottle works well for most dogs (unless they are water lovers  ).  But I wouldn't squirt the neighbor dogs at all unless you talk to the neighbor first.  So many people do weird and threatening stuff to dogs that it might be misconstrued.  I have stories about that, too, but this post is long enough.

Chow chow!


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## edX (May 24, 2002)

now that i've cleared a little space for my wonderful new cupie doll... 

yes, i know the dog pretty well. Her name is Lucy and she loves to come over and see me in the mornings or anytime she is lucky enough to be out front without a leash. She has another funny habit as well. If i am wearing a suit and tie, she attempts to jump all over me. If i am wearing anything else, she just circles around my feet and waits for me to pet her 

I must admit i have had very few neighbors i have ever liked. But this neighborhood seems to have some pretty nice people. I would say that most of them are more or less like me in terms of attitudes about neighbors - not very outgoing, but very friendly once approached. pretty much live and let live philosophy. No wonder i have always felt more at home in beach/coastal communities.

It is sad that my best neighbor is moving back to Boston this summer because she is getting divorced


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## nkuvu (May 24, 2002)

Yeah, I've never had much use for neighbors.

I'd like to live out in the middle of nowhere if I could telecommute in to work.  And if I could make the yard safe for my little pooches.  I've heard lots of stories of little dogs getting acquainted with the local coyotes, and not in a good way.

Another lovely thing in the desert is the number of poisonous little critters....


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## edX (May 24, 2002)

well, as far as neighbors go, we have lived here for 4 and a half years and i am just now starting to get to know more of them than just Lucy's owner and the one who is moving 

and as for outdoor threats - i am sure you have heard me talk about the raccoons, skunks and feral cats in the neighborhood. What amazes me is how well they all get along. I have seen all three together around my garbage cans a few times. Occasionally i hear the sounds of a fight outside. almost always i smell skunk shortly afterwrds. In fact skunk smell is something i have become somewhat adjusted to. I barely notice it anymore.

I have been trying to figure out if i could make my backyard so the skunks and raccoons don't get in. I know it would take too much to keep the cats out but they are a minimal problem i think. I know that people 2 streets over raise chickens so there must be a way to do it. perhaps i should take a walk and see if they can tell me more. gee, there's a novel idea - leave my house and walk around my neighborhood


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## nkuvu (May 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *I have been trying to figure out if i could make my backyard so the skunks and raccoons don't get in. I know it would take too much to keep the cats out but they are a minimal problem i think.*


Sure thing.  Build a solid 10 foot wall out of sheet metal, and cut down any nearby trees.  Make sure the wall goes down into the ground about 4 feet, also.  You'll keep the skunks and raccoons out.  Make it 20 feet tall and I'm pretty sure the cats won't be in there either.  


> *I know that people 2 streets over raise chickens so there must be a way to do it. perhaps i should take a walk and see if they can tell me more. gee, there's a novel idea - leave my house and walk around my neighborhood *


Now you're talking about two different things.  The two questions of "if it can be done" versus "how much will have to be done to make it work".

One of the few things that is nice about living near the city (which isn't a city in comparison to some others, Tucson is very spread out, so doesn't ever feel huge) is that there are very few wild critters roaming around in the garbage cans.


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## nkuvu (May 24, 2002)

> _Ed done did say:_
> *in fact Easy Ed used to be one of my real world nicknames*


I won't go there if you don't.  



> _And RacerX said:_
> *Maybe if you started a conversation on capital punishment for small cute dogs who yak in your bed? There is a controversial subject!*


It's not controversial if your idea of capital punishment is "NO!"    See?  Using capitals, punishing the dog...    *sigh*  OK, I'll insert my own courtesy laugh here:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

See?  Isn't that better?


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## Ricky (May 24, 2002)

Wow, look at all the high posters.  

Some day I'll be a 1,00th poster as well, but you'll just have to wait..  I can only type so fast    Congrats on your 1,000th post, nkuvu.

I still have my first post right here, and I laugh now that I look back on it..



> _Originally posted by ricky_
> *I am seriously thinking about installing OS X on my iMac 333 MHz iMac w/ 160 megs of RAM. I am currently using 1.4 GB of space on my HD and I am going to partition it for OS X so that I ave a seperate partition for OS 9. I have a few questions...
> 
> -How big should I make my partitions?
> ...


I've never looked back, honestly..


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ricky _
> *Some day I'll be a 1,00th poster as well, but you'll just have to wait..  I can only type so fast  *


You mean 1,000th poster?    Don't worry about post counts, you'll get there soon enough.  The important bit is the quality, as I am sure  you already know...


> *Congrats on your 1,000th post, nkuvu.*


Thanks.


> *I still have my first post right here, and I laugh now that I look back on it..*


What's to laugh about?  It doesn't seem to me like you said anything to regret, or asked a silly question.  I mean, a lot of the members here know the answers to those questions, but when you posted it I am sure that few people knew.


> *I've never looked back, honestly..   *


Weren't you just looking back when you quoted your first post?  

OK, so who remembers where their first post was?  Mine was in a discussion of trackballs and mice and such, but I don't remember where...


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *It is sad that my best neighbor is moving back to Boston this summer because she is getting divorced *


Blech.  I don't think I'd ever move back to Boston.  Lived there as a youngster.  Icky weather.  Real weather, not like Washington weather, but icky nonetheless.

Boston has real summers and real winters, Washington has perpetual gray and rain and cold temperatures (relatively speaking -- most people find Washington pretty moderate).  Arizona has perpetual summers.  Bliss!

I can sympathize with the divorce bit as well.  I'm about to go through the same thing.  My ex and I have been separated since November, and it's been a very amicable separation.  More that we just don't love each other as spousal units than anything else.  So we're still really good friends, and the divorce itself is just a formality.  But the separation from someone you thought you'd be with for the rest of your life is very difficult.

I think I need to go get some more merry from the B&G...  Then off to bed!


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## edX (May 25, 2002)

actually your first post was in this thread and it happened to follow one of my posts 



> I guess a hammer's out of the question, huh?
> 
> No, no, stop hitting me! It was a joke! I'm sorry!



you were quite the great tech help i would say.


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## Kris (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *- abortion
> [..]
> *


I'd love to discuss som heavy topics, like abortion, but is it wise? 


 
Kris


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## Valrus (May 25, 2002)

I dunno, maybe it'd be best to start another thread for that. Ultimately this is nkuvu's thread (sort of), so you should at least get his permission first. I'd join in though. 

If nkuvu agrees, though, go for it. This thread is turning into the nkuvu and Ed show! 

-the valrus


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

Hmm, yes, now I remember.  OK, so my first post was a joke on how to open an iMac.  Soon after that I posted about trackballs.  

That was actually kind of my point.  Some of us posted a lot between now and the first post, for some people it's just been a long time.  For some it's both.  I was just curious as to what made you think "Oh, I need to say something here."  Obviously mine was less than serious.  


We can talk about anything, no matter how heavy.  There have been numerous threads on controversial subjects, such as religion, politics, OS X on an x86 system...

The key is to remember the basic forum etiquette rules: Don't be an idiot.  Uh, no, that's not the one.  (Pulled the paper out of the wrong pocket)  Oh, uh, Don't attack someone for not believing what you do.  Feel free to yell at them to get them to explain themselves.  But definitely don't attack someone for poor grammar or spelling.  I've seen a lot of people post in the middle of an argument with all kinds of typos, and I've also seen others belittle the poster for those typos, which is ridiculous.  First, typing fast introduces more typos, being upset introduces more typos, and not everyone has English as their first language.


So shall I jump off that cliff and start a nice controversy?  OK.  Since you picked abortion, Kris, I guess I'll start on that one.  

First, let me state where I stand on humanity.  I feel that humanity is a huge burden on the planet, and would be very happy to see our population reduced to anywhere from zero to one million people.  I think that the planet can easily support that many people, and we could lead happy fulfilling lives.  Well, unless the number is zero.    I'm not saying that I want everyone dead.  I am a very firm believer in peace, as I was mentioning in the B&G.  Instead, I would like to see our birthrate diminish so that over time the population is naturally thinned, or have us go colonize twelve hundred other planets.  Or maybe have us go build a RingWorld (a la Larry Niven, aks me for details if you want).  I feel that humanity should be sharing the planet with the animals and plants, not dominating it.  This is the first problem I have with some religious people -- they often believe humankind to be superior to the rest of the animals, and therefore we can never see eye to eye.

That said, I think that there are a number of circumstances in which abortion is totally reasonable.  If the woman in question was raped, for example, I would not have her carry the child to term if she didn't want to.  Nor would I expect a teenage girl to carry a child to term after an 'accident'.  That's accident like "Oops, we forgot protection" or "What kind of protection are you talking about? Helmets?"    I don't really care how the child is conceived for teenage girls, I don't believe that they are ready to be moms.  (On a side note, I don't believe that 75% of the parenting population, no matter what age, is ready to be a parent)  I do believe that teenage girls who become pregnant should have one or more of counseling ("You _do_ know how to prevent this in the future, yes?"), be placed on some sort of birth control, or locked up in a tower so that the only way in is for someone to climb up their hair.

I feel that abortion should always be an option for someone who doesn't feel ready in any way.  My roommate, for example, is just starting her college career.  It'll be a few years before she's graduated, and probably another few years until she's financially stable.  If something happened and she became pregnant, do you think it's a good time in her life to have a child?  I would want her to be able to choose on her own terms whether she's ready, not be told by the government when that time is.

And in consideration of the above, I'd also like to point out that a lot of people abuse the operation, having one after another after another.  In those cases, after say the second or third time, I'd start strongly suggesting some more permanent forms of birth control.



Alrighty, that should get something going...


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Valrus _
> *I dunno, maybe it'd be best to start another thread for that. Ultimately this is nkuvu's thread (sort of), so you should at least get his permission first. I'd join in though.
> 
> If nkuvu agrees, though, go for it. This thread is turning into the nkuvu and Ed show!
> ...


And here I thought it was the Nkuvu show with a sprinkling of Ed!    I feel like I've been talking to myself mostly, with Ed coming in once in a while to keep me going.


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## edX (May 25, 2002)

he he

yea, the tortoise and i were pretty chatty last night. 

kris, there is already a nice (?) thread about abortion that ran out of steam a while back. you could either ressurrect it or feel free to start a new one or since nkuvu brought it up here, discuss it here.  There is never anything unwise about discussing issues of importance as long as one keeps it relatively civil and accepts that others will have different opinions. it would be great to hear what a woman has to say about our previous attempts at discussing abortion.


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *
> OK, so who remembers where their first post was?  Mine was in a discussion of trackballs and mice and such, but I don't remember where... *


Okay, nkuvu, here's what you do...

1.)  Go to your profile by clicking on the button called "profile" under one of your posts.  User CP won't work.
2.)  In the blue bar, there should be a link called "search for all posts by this user."  Click it.  In your case it may take a while  
3.)  Go to the last page, and go to the last post on the page.  Voila!  Here's your first post:



> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *
> The accuracy of the trackball depends on the size of the ball. At home I have a Kensington Orbit -- medium sized ball, fairly accurate. Currently at work I have a Logitech Trackman. Small ball, difficult to place exactly. I used to have a Kensington TurboRing at work. Huge ball -- I could manipulate pixels with it.
> 
> ...


Nice first post.


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## edX (May 25, 2002)

interesting - you appear to be right by 3 mins Ricky. I did a search for nkuvu with list in ascending order and the first post shown was the one i quoted. but time and ate stamps using your method clearly show you are right and i had nkuvu's second post. good job. and i guess this shows that nkuvu has a pretty good memory even after 1000+ posts


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

Yeah, I know how to find my first post, I was just too lazy to do it.  I'd assumed that Ed did what you are describing.

My question was more along the lines of "Do you remember what your first post was without going and looking?"

And Ed, the reason I remember is because it hasn't been that long.


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *... time and ate stamps using your method clearly show you are right and i had nkuvu's second post. good job. and i guess this shows that nkuvu has a pretty good memory even after 1000+ posts *


Why thank you.  

Nkuvu's only been registered on Macosx.com for about two months now..    He should be able to remember his first post.    Look at his posts per day...  awesome.


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

> _Ed said:_
> *time and ate stamps*


Heh, Ed ate stamps.


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

Yummy typo, Ed.   

Actually I just found a much faster way to find first posts -- just click "search" under a user's post!    Shortcuts are good...


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

Well now I can finally say I'm "1337".


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

LOL nkuvu.  You go!


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

So no one is going to talk about the controversial issues...?

Or did I just get every single person's opinion exactly, so they feel they don't have to add anything?  


I know, I know, not everyone hovers over the boards all day like I do.    *sigh* I suppose I should start getting my day underway...


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## Kris (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *So shall I jump off that cliff and start a nice controversy?  OK.  Since you picked abortion, Kris, I guess I'll start on that one.
> *




Alright. First, let me say I agree a lot with you nkuvu. 

Some of the women that get pregnant today, isn't really ready to be mothers, in some way or another.  For them an abortion could be a really good solution, but let's _not_ forget that an abortion isn't "just an abortion". It's a tough decision, and I honestly don't think any woman would concider it unimportant or easy in any way.
Abortion is also about another thing, which you didn't mention, nkuvu. For women it's also about making decisions about _their own body_. Before it was (and still is, is some countries) legal to take an abortion, the woman had to stand in front of a "jury" and explain herself, and tell them why she should be _allowed_ to take an abortion. Ask for a _permission_ to make a diffcult life-time decition, which would affect her entire life. I think it's a human right to be able (allowed) to make your own decisions about your own body.  
I would like, though, to point out that I think it's abosolutely horrible when abortion is used as contraception over and over again.

I honestly can't understand when young girls say they are against abortion. (Some don't even want to concider the circumstances!)


Kris


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## RacerX (May 25, 2002)

I know this isn't going to help continue on the conversation, but I agree with you Kris. We actually had an abortion thread not too long ago. It was strange because you had a bunch of men (and Jadey) arguing about women's rights. It would have been nice to have your views added to that thread.

See, this is why we need a topic where we don't all agree! I'm still holding out for the _capital punishment_ for _cute little_ animals topic.


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## nkuvu (May 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *I know this isn't going to help continue on the conversation, but I agree with you Kris. We actually had an abortion thread not too long ago. It was strange because you had a bunch of men (and Jadey) arguing about women's rights. It would have been nice to have your views added to that thread.*


From the way you said it, Racer, it sounds like Jadey was on one side and the bunch of men were on the other.  Is that a complete misinterpretation of what you said?


> *See, this is why we need a topic where we don't all agree! I'm still holding out for the capital punishment for cute little animals topic.  *


OK, I definitely disagree with you there.  There are way too many _cute little_ animals being killed for testing of human products.  There is no reason we need to kill more.



> _Originally posted by Kris_
> *I think it's a human right to be able (allowed) to make your own decisions about your own body.*


I agree, but let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second, since no one else seems to be joining our discussion (_hint, hint_  ).  Let me first state that these are not my opinions, so don't go flaming me, K?

The choice for an abortion doesn't just affect your own body.  You're affecting another life, that of the fetus.  In effect, you are murdering another human life, one that has no defenses other than our legal system.

Now here I'm going to go ahead and provide my personal rebuttal, because I love arguing with myself.  

When exactly does it become human?  And why is it all right to destroy the mother's life (assuming that she doesn't want the child) for a _minimum_ of the term of pregnancy to save that one life?  I say minimum because having a child (i.e., being pregnant) and giving it up (aborting or giving up for adoption) is a life altering, traumatic thing for any mother.  

So even if that child is given a chance, who is to say that it is going to have a happy, full life?  Who is to say that it won't end up living on the streets or in an orphanage?  the government?  Hah.  Don't make me laugh.  The government (at least here in the US) provides so little care for its youth that it is frightening.  Just take a look at public education.  Even for children that live with their biological parents the school system does next to nothing to ensure that the children of today become good people in the future.  Public education is little more than teaching someone to blindly obey the rules.

And that's a good scenario.  Will the government ensure that the child, once carried to term and given for adoption, will be placed in a stable, loving home?  It might try, but the government is spread out too thin to be able to guarantee this.  What about the medical costs for the mother?  Last time I checked, government supplied medical coverage was a pipe dream.  We are not a country with socialized medicine.

So my responses to a few bumper stickers I've seen:
"Choose life.  Your mother did!"
Yeah, that's assuming that I am a happy, fully productive member of society.  If I feel that I and the majority of the populace would be better off not to have been born, this is a ridiculously stupid statement.

"Protect Human Life.  Stop abortion"
Again I ask, when is the bunch of cells in a womb a life?  At the moment of fertilization?  When there is a distinguishable heartbeat?  When it is born into the world?  How about when it can survive on its own with whatever help we can give it (e.g., premature babies who would die without human intervention).  How about we all choose a different number between 0 and 270 (the approximate number of days for pregnancy) and draw straws?  Whoever wins gets to decide when the fetus is a human life.

OK, I'll stop now and let someone else get a word in edgewise...


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## Ricky (May 25, 2002)

I'm not going to participate in this discussion because something bad always happens when I give my opinion on a touchy subject..    so don't feel bad if I don't reply to any more stuff in this thread.


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## RacerX (May 25, 2002)

> _pondered by nkuvu_
> *From the way you said it, Racer, it sounds like Jadey was on one side and the bunch of men were on the other. Is that a complete misinterpretation of what you said?*



The parenthesis around Jadey's name was to note the exception to the _bunch of men_ part of the statement. Without the parenthesis, your interpretation would have been correct.


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## nkuvu (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ricky _
> *I'm not going to participate in this discussion because something bad always happens when I give my opinion on a touchy subject..    so don't feel bad if I don't reply to any more stuff in this thread. *


Well you don't have to talk about touchy subjects if you don't want to.  Feel free to follow along if you're interested, or start another conversation.  We're able to multi-task, just like OS X.


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## Kris (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *In effect, you are murdering another human life, one that has no defenses other than our legal system.*


I would not use the word "murdering".. Not very suitable, though you do _end_ a human life at an very early age. And that's why it's not an easy decision.

Here, where I live, it was once a bunch of demonstrators outside one of the hospitals. At the hospital, some abortions had been made. The demonstrators stood outside and screamed "murder" and "killer" to the women. It was absolutely horrible. And they talked about respect for the human life.. Ok, one more story, and I'll stop. I know (actually, I don't really _know_ her) a very young girl who has taken several abortions. She even managed to say that it was _fun_ to have abortions (though I doubt she ment it). That's when you know it has gone too far. 

Ok. I'm done.  Perhaps we should take the capital punishment topic? What do you actually mean by "capital punishment"?


Kris


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## RacerX (May 26, 2002)

> _by nkuvu (while possessed by the Devil)_
> *The choice for an abortion doesn't just affect your own body. You're affecting another life, that of the fetus. In effect, you are murdering another human life, one that has no defenses other than our legal system.*



My response to this is that it is not murder when a woman chooses not to use herself to sustain another life. No government, no group of people, no outside counsel should bar a woman from making the choice which is best for her. She can be informed of the consequences (both to herself and the growth within her body), but beyond that, we should not be telling anyone that they must provide their body (at their own personal risk) to save the life of another.



> _by the good nkuvu, rebutting his possessed self_
> *When exactly does it become human?*



I would say that the beginning of life (which is immaterial to the abortion question anyway) can be standardized by what we would consider the end of life. The flesh can be maintained for extended periods beyond the life of a person, but brain activity would seem to be that which defines the difference between life as a person and a collection of cells existing. From this point of view, life would begin with brain activity just as life ends with the lack of it.

Once life has begun, it becomes an argument of importance. For me, the _arbitrary_ importance assigned to anyone (from my point of view) is based on age. Without any other information other than age, if I had to choose between saving the life of an adult versus that of a child, I would choose the adult. A majority of adults represent a sizable investment by our social community. With each year, a human increases in value based on investment and experience (again, a broad generalization, but with the lack of any other qualifier, a good one).

From this point of view (with no other information), a pre-born child represents no investment by the community, while the mother could represent anywhere from 13 to 45 years of community investment and (far more important) irreplaceable experience. Therefore any risk of losing the mother far out weighs the risk of losing the unborn child.

Now, given all that, the process (from conception to birth) should only take place with the full consent of the woman involved. If she is willing to take the risks, then that is her choice. If she is not willing, then we should support her (and our collective investment) completely.



> _by nkuvu (on a slightly different topic)_
> *Just take a look at public education. Even for children that live with their biological parents the school system does next to nothing to ensure that the children of today become good people in the future.*



As a product of the United States public school system, I would take issue with that. I have gone to public schools (including my university) and would be happy to compare any of the institutions of which I attended to any other like institution around the world. I will not hide the fact that I attended the best that the public school system had to offer, but I would point out that these institutions exist within the framework of the public school system, and that others could have been just as good with community support. Any community which doesn't want the best of their school system (be it because the parents are uneducated themselves or the majority of the population is beyond child baring) is not going to have very good schools. The United States offers an education second to none on this planet, you need only want it to have it (and that includes everyone, not just US citizens).

Are you really sure we can't talk about _capital punishment_ of _cute little_ animals?


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## nkuvu (May 26, 2002)

Hmm.  I suppose the whole abortion issue isn't going to be a hot topic here, since everyone seems to be in agreement...


> _Posted by Kris:_
> *I would not use the word "murdering"*


Nor would I.  But even as you mentioned, plenty of others do.


> *What do you actually mean by "capital punishment"?*


Capital punishment is the execution of criminals.  Enough said?


> _Then RacerX said:_
> *As a product of the United States public school system, I would take issue with that. I have gone to public schools (including my university) and would be happy to compare any of the institutions of which I attended to any other like institution around the world.*


I'm also a product of the US public school system, but I feel that I was cheated for a majority of my education.

A relatively minor example:  When I was in 7th grade, I started taking Spanish.  I continued through the first half of 8th grade, when my mom and I moved across country.  The new school didn't offer any second languages, and I was unable to resume Spanish until 10th grade.  When I did resume the classes, the teacher was so uninspired that I learned absolutely nothing in the next three years of the class.  All of the Spanish I know today (which is only a little since I haven't practiced) I learned in my first year and a half of classes.  From what I hear, students in European and Asian schools begin the study of not one but many foreign languages at a much earlier age, when it is much easier to learn a new language.

How well did your school teach you about history?  Geography?  Philosophy?  It is my impression (which could of course be absolutely wrong) that other school systems educate their children very well in these matters, where a majority of US schools merely get the children to memorize dates and places long enough for the test.


If you feel like talking about _capital punishment_ for _small cute animals_, RacerX, start right in.  I think I've already made my feelings clear on the matter, but I can debate it with you if you want.


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## Kris (May 26, 2002)

Well. I'm not a product of the American school system, but since we're talking about school, I wold like to add something. 

Did you guys ever feel you really got a chance to learn maximum, and to use your, let me call it; "gifts"? 
A possible scenario: Some students are motivated, some are not. (I'm talking high-school-level here, not university-level.) The teacher therefor have to use most of the time to try to put (yeah, put) information into the heads of the un-motivated students. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying the techers shouldn't help the ones that may struggle in some subjects. But it's the fact they only do that. In every class, with every subject. And the "smart ones/motivated" suffers from this. 


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 26, 2002)

Ah, you're a perfect example, Kris.  How was your school when you were growing up?  Were you taught multiple foreign languages?  Is English your native tongue?  Did your school touch on philosophy or geography?  Do you feel that you have a good idea of world history?

To answer your question, no I didn't feel that school was a good place to learn for me.  I've always had an aptitude for learning, especially science and math.  This doesn't mean that I think I am particularly smart -- I might be if I was motivated to learn, but that's one of my personal flaws.  (I mean that lack of motivation is one of my flaws)  Anyway, I often felt pretty darn bored in school.  Let me take my physics class for an example of the exception to the rule.

When I was in high school physics, I had already taken a number of chemistry classes from the same teacher.  I did really well in chemistry, because the teacher made it interesting and I really wanted to learn it all.  So when I got to physics, he noticed that I and another student were ahead of the rest of the class.  I think one of the reasons he noticed it was because we kept asking for the next assignment.  We finished his curriculum for the class about one third of the way through the course.  So he started giving us other assignments, and other quizzes.  We still had to take the same tests as the rest of the class, but they were really easy since we'd already learned it.  We started getting into his college textbooks, and were learning chemistry and physics and their relationship.  We got to the point of a really good learning experience where we were discussing the properties of light, and doing experiments to try to determine if light is a wave or a particle, when the course ended.  That was my senior year in high school, so I was unable to continue with the same teacher.  That was the _only_ time I felt that the teacher really wanted us to learn, and was willing to ignore the "regular system" of learning to be able to teach us.

In all other classes, when I tried to get new assignments, the teacher would refuse and tell me that I'd have to work along with the rest of the class.  This really irritated me, and for most of my schooling I was not a good student, because I resented being taught at the same pace as the kid with the perpetual blank stare.  Of course knowing what I know now, I would have done things differently, but I guess that's part of being human.

I know that being a teacher must be an awful lot of work, and very unrewarding (at least in the US).  Most people I know who are teachers get paid very minimal salaries, and so they really have to love what they are doing.  But I also know from experience that it is possible for a teacher to enable students to learn at a faster pace.  My physics teacher rarely spent time lecturing us, so it's not like he was teaching a whole new class.  All he had to give us was a book and assignments, and we did the work.

Does this perhaps answer your question?


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## RacerX (May 26, 2002)

> _asked by nkuvu_
> *How well did your school teach you about history? Geography? Philosophy? It is my impression (which could of course be absolutely wrong) that other school systems educate their children very well in these matters, where a majority of US schools merely get the children to memorize dates and places long enough for the test.*



I would say that my knowledge of history, geography and philosophy rivals (or exceeds) that of almost any member of MacOSX.com (and I would say that our members most likely represent the best of their countries education systems). As that knowledge is a product of my education, I would say my schools covered those subjects very well. 

My teachers asked us to write on these subjects and their implications (dates were secondary to relevance of events in my classes). And we were encouraged to excel at our interests (for myself this was mathematics/physics and track). _Advanced Placement_ courses were the norm at my school, not the exception. And as for athletics, I was one of the leaders in my state (California), which produced may of the best athletes ever in my event. 

If I feel in any way _cheated_, it would be by myself for not having taken full advantage of the bounty that was offered me. If I didn't like a subject (or I was preoccupied with other aspects of teenage life) I didn't spend much time on it. Languages are a good example. I have a learning disability which makes languages (including English) hard for me to learn (specifically, I do not make a connection between the written word and the spoken word, there is no inner voice associated with reading/writing for me). Given this (and my enjoyment of science) I didn't take advantage of the language program offered. In high school I had 4 years of mathematics, 3 years of physics and 2 years of chemistry, and dropped out of French, German, and Spanish. These were my choices, and the instructors of the language courses were in no way at fault. In retrospect, maybe I would have done some things different (actually, maybe not... I did enjoy my high school coursework  ). The point is that it was up to me and in some areas I took full and complete advantage of what the school was offering me.


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## Kris (May 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *Ah, you're a perfect example, Kris.  How was your school when you were growing up?  Were you taught multiple foreign languages?  Is English your native tongue? [...]*


Yes, I were taught several langugages at school. English, French and my mothertongue (I could also chose Spanish if I wanted too). I've always done well in English and very well in my mothertongue. French on the other hand, never caught my interest.
Anyway. The problem with school was the noise in the classes, and not the subjects. People talked too much. Mostly about boys and parties, but never, never, about school or the subject we were doing. This was extremely frustrating. I must add, though, that there were other people like me, but the majority didn't care much at all. They were happy if they even passed the class. I have no idea why they were even there! But in i.e my math-class it was much better. People were more motivated, and therefor calmer. I learned a lot there. 

Another problem I found was the number of subjects you could chose. Many people would chose subject like media or travelling. Yeah, _travelling_. While interesting subjects, such as biology, were not even a subject. 


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 26, 2002)

It sounds like you got a very good education, RacerX.  My only lament is that I was not offered similar experiences.

As I mentioned, my school was definitely not the best.  I took one AP course, out of two offered.  I took two years of chemistry, one of those years being AP chemistry.  There was only one physics class offered.  Four years of math, and I already described the language course.    German was also offered at my school, but it was worse than Spanish.  I had friends who took three years of German to get easy A's, but they couldn't form a proper sentence.

I feel cheated by myself as well as the system, basically because the lesson I learned most in school was that to learn you have to go out and do all the work on your own.  If I wanted to accelerate my learning, I got absolutely no help from my teachers (with the exception of my physics/chemistry teacher).  In fact, I feel that I was restricted from learning since I had to maintain the pace of all of the other students in the class.  I cheated myself by not realizing that I could learn things outside of class.  Personally I learn best when I can discuss the subject with someone who knows it better, so learning on my own is not as easy as a class.  Maybe it's the same for everyone...

Basically I felt that I took full advantage of what my school had to offer, but when I reached out for more they told me I couldn't have it.


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## RacerX (May 26, 2002)

Yeah, of the AP classes offered, I only took the AP Physic B & C, Calculus AB & BC, and Chemistry and of those I only took the actual exams for Physics B and Calculus AB (junior year), Physics C _Mechanics_ and Physics C _Electricity and Magnetism_ (senior year). We had a ton of AP and IB courses at my school, and things like philosophy and psychology.

I, by no means, believe that this was the norm (very little of my high school years were in any sense normal... specially after I started dating one of my instructors  ). My only point was that both my high school (Coronado High) and university (University of California, San Diego) are part of the public education system. A system which provides (or doesn't provides depending on your point of view) a full spectrum of education environments. Much of these institution's offerings are determined by cities or states (and should not be used a measure of the nation as a whole). Remember that the United States is roughly the size of Europe, with 50 individual states with their own interest, yet all working together for the common good of the nation (on a good day of course  ). We have short comings (like health care), but few other countries (if any, actually) have it any better in other areas.

You know what they say... _The grass is always greener on the other side of the border_ (excepted for me because I can only speak the English,  and even then, not that well  ).


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## AdmiralAK (May 26, 2002)

I took  AP physics in high school (when I was a senior).  The teacher was teh coolest cat you've ever met!  Even though I got good grades I never took the AP exam for college credit.  

I wonder if there is a CLEP exam for physics 

I attend a public university, where the tuition is cheaper than most universities if you are a resident of the state. The problem is that people who work there are state workers.  Professors are nice but the staff get more apathetic as time goes by.  Whenever I try to get something done with other departments(I also work for the university) I get infuriated at their apathy and slow responce, the stupid beaurocracy and teh general conditions  --- ah.... what can one do ? 


Admiral


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## nkuvu (May 26, 2002)

[SARCASM]
RacerX, you should do some traveling.  Go see Europe and Asia and all those fun places.  Who cares if you don't speak their language?  They should speak English, right?
[/SARCASM]

I really hate that Americans tend to expect that everyone will speak English in other countries.

Sorry, I digressed there for a moment.  

I took the AP chemistry test, and got a 3 (out of 5, for those not familiar with the tests).  Which meant that I could have gotten some college credit, but it was only worth one class.  By the time I got to college, though, I really needed to take that class and refresh my knowledge.  So the test wasn't really worth it to me.


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## RacerX (May 26, 2002)

I got all 4s on the exams I took. I don't think I could have gotten as high as a 3 on the Chemistry exam which was why I didn't take it. And I was paying for my own exams by my senior year, and I couldn't afford both the Physics C exams and the Calculus BC exam (plus I thought I was going to major in physics at that time also).

Actually I didn't take Chemistry after that (wasn't required for me and I hate lab work), so I guess the credits wouldn't have helped anyway. And I would have a hard time listing all the math and physics courses I've taken sense high school. I loved school!


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## nkuvu (May 27, 2002)

I'm not ignoring anyone, just had problems with my ISP.  The curious people can read about it in the B&G.

I will probably be posting a lot less this week, since we have to get ready to move.  Cleaning and packing and moving and cleaning and unpacking.  Joy!

It will be nice once we're moved, but until then....


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## Kris (May 28, 2002)

nkuvu: Where are you moving? To a new city, or just changing residence?

Oh.. and talking about tests and exams.. Anyone got some advice on how to _not_ stress, or how to stress-down? 


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

Just moving across town.  We'll be living closer to the university, which is very beneficial for both my roommate and myself.  My roommate because she goes to college (technically she goes to the community college, but it's right next to the university) and myself because I drive her to school since we currently live so far away.  Her classes start at 8:00 am this quarter, so I have to get up even earlier than I normally do so I can get ready to go to work and still have time to take her.

I tried writing about how I relax for tests, but when written out it sounded strange and bizarre and not like something that would relax anyone.


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## RacerX (May 28, 2002)

My physics teacher in high school gave us a party the night before the exams so we wouldn't think about them. The day before a test like that, there really is very little more you could do. Remember, very few things in live can't be fixed. Exams have never held me back when I did poorly on them, they only required me to apply my efforts somewhere else to continue on my path.

Maybe that isn't the best advice for everyone though.  

Besides, at that time I wasn't a very good student. I hardly ever showed up for classes (mainly to take the exams) and almost never did homework. My ex-wife used to tell people how I would be doing take-home exams (which we had a week to complete) in the car as she was driving me to class.

In retrospect, it is amazing that I even graduated from high school (considering that I was hardly there my senior year). I know that some of my teachers excused my absences because I was a star athlete. From what my ex-wife told me, she couldn't walk through the teachers lounge without my other teachers coming up to ask her if she could get me to put in even a little effort into my school work.

I guess you can see why I feel I _cheated_ myself while I was in high school. 

Anyways, I hope your move goes will, nkuvu. I know how much I hate moving.


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## RacerX (May 28, 2002)

We now have another good example of a good _congrats_ threads. Note how it fixes so nicely into the _Anatomy of a Good Congrats Thread_.


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

I knew if I talked to myself long enough I'd get over five pages.  And even better, someone else came in and started talking to me!  I guess you (plural) couldn't stand my conversations with myself.


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## AdmiralAK (May 28, 2002)

lol racer, I did your ex ever badger you with the this reason: "Seriously racer, honey! could you put a liiiitle teensy weency more effort into your schoolwork? My weener colleagues are bothering me about it constantly!"  hehehe 


As for teh anatomy of a congrats thread.... now that is exceptional 


Admiral


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

In regards to the move, it is worse than I expected it to be.  My roommate's original plan was to move out on her own, since she's never lived alone and wanted to try it.  So for months she started stocking up on household stuff.  Our current place is pretty packed with boxes, all hers.  On top of that, I haven't been preparing to move at all, since I thought I'd be staying where I am now.

A week and a half ago she asked if I'd move in with her again, since she really didn't think she could afford to live on her own, and was having a hard time finding any place that would take her dogs.  Three days later we found a place, and now I have to scramble to get everything packed and ready to go.

It's not as bad as it could be -- since I hadn't given any notice to my landlord, I paid rent for all of June.  So we have a month of overlap between the two places, so it doesn't have to be a mad let's-move-eveerything-today kind of rush...

But yeah, I hate moving in normal conditions.  I'm a very "rooted" kind of person.


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *We now have another good example of a good congrats threads. Note how it fixes so nicely into the Anatomy of a Good Congrats Thread.
> 
> *


What I like about this is the fact that the "congrats to RacerX" thread is directly below mine, like a subliminal plug...


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## homer (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *So we have a month of overlap between the two places, so it doesn't have to be a mad let's-move-eveerything-today kind of rush...
> *



I've only lived in a university town for two years.  Is it the case in places other than Madison, WI, that everyone and his dog's lease ends on the 14th of August, and new leases begin on the 15th, such that about 30,000 people in town are living in the gutter for a day or so?  I find it SO ridiculous.


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## RacerX (May 28, 2002)

> _asked by Admiral _
> *lol racer, I did your ex ever badger you with the this reason: "Seriously racer, honey! could you put a liiiitle teensy weency more effort into your schoolwork? My weener colleagues are bothering me about it constantly!"  hehehe  *



Actually quite a few times, specially after she had to go lobbying _to_ my other teachers to keep me eligible to compeat.



So nkuvu, not to pry, but what did you think of her original plans to move out on her own and her change of heart of late?



> _by homer _
> *I've only lived in a university town for two years. Is it the case in places other than Madison, WI, that everyone and his dog's lease ends on the 14th of August, and new leases begin on the 15th, such that about 30,000 people in town are living in the gutter for a day or so? I find it SO ridiculous.
> *



I've never been in a small college town, but I have heard that about Madison.


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

I'm not worried about anyone prying.  If it's a question I don't want to answer I'll just say so.

Mixed feelings about both.  I enjoy living alone, but I tend to get completely introverted if no one else is around.  It's also very nice to be able to share the housework.  And since our work schedules are opposite, it's really nice for the dogs to have someone home almost all the time.  That last bit changes with this school quarter, she'll be home only at night on the weekdays, and only during the day on weekends, which pretty much coincides with my schedule.

I am looking forward to my own bathroom.    Her hair is a lot longer than mine, so the bathtub/sink tend to accumulate hair in the drain.  Blech.

I also have mixed feelings about moving -- it's really a pain, and I wasn't prepared for it, but the new place is definitely cooler.  The yard is nicer and larger, and the fence is a million percent improvement.

Nkuvu (the tortoise) will finally be able to live outside, like she's supposed to now that she's bigger.  Yay!


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## Kris (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RacerX _
> *[...] Remember, very few things in live can't be fixed.*


I know, things usually turn out alright anyway. Doesn't mean one shouldn't work, but just that there's no need to worry too much, as I sometimes tend to do.  


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kris _
> *I know, things usually turn out alright anyway. Doesn't mean one shouldn't work, but just that there's no need to worry too much, as I sometimes tend to do.
> 
> 
> Kris *


Ever looked into Taoism, Kris?  It's a very nice way to look at the world IMO...


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## nkuvu (May 28, 2002)

Where's Ed?  Haven't seen him in here for a while...

To answer your question, homer, I've never heard of that.  Almost everyone I know has a lease end on the last day of the month and the new lease start on the first of the next month.  And almost everyone I know has been able to convince the landlord to let them in early so they have a place to stay...


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## Kris (May 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *Ever looked into Taoism, Kris?  It's a very nice way to look at the world IMO... *


Hmhm.. no, not really. I've read some by Confucious, that's all. Not much, though. Perhaps I should.


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 29, 2002)

No, Confucianism is very different from Taoism.  Confucianism is all about living according to social rules and natural rules.  Everything is the world has its place according to Confucianism, and you can never change that place.  Which isn't very useful in a society like the US, where this concept really isn't followed at all.

Taoism is all about understanding natural cycles and patterns and being able to follow them.  _Wu wei_, action through inaction, is a prime example of Taoism.  Doing something without forcing it, by understanding when to push and when to relax.  Think of a child on a swing, sitting there looking sad because she's not moving.  So you give her a push.  But you can't keep pushing, or she won't swing at all, she'll just stay where you're pushing her.  So you have to know when to back off, then push her again to keep her going.

There's a lot more to it, and I don't pretend to be able to explain everything (or anything, really  ).  But that's a general idea of how Taoists think.  

_Edit:  I just re-read this and wanted to elaborate and clarify..._

A good (brief) overview of Taoism can be found at http://www.religioustolerance.org/taoism.htm

There are a lot of good books on the subject, but one I recommend frequently to people wanting to learn what Taoism is (and isn't) is Taoism of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff.

And the example I gave isn't very good to tell the truth, since it addresses one aspect of Taoism and ignores the bazillion others.  

OK, I'll shut up about this now until someone show some interest or asks a question or something.


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## edX (May 30, 2002)

where did you think i was? - out in the yard silly If you would just go around to the back of the house, you could find me easily. but i can't hear the doorbell so going to the front of the house is useless (uh, sometimes i just like to listen - be sure that i am here and reading what all have written. i will always join in when i feel the desire or the need. but it gets a little tiring being the center of so many conversations that when others start doing well without me, i take the opportunity to just fade back into my lay-z-boy and enjoy it)

ah yes, wu wei. good stuff. probably my favorite part of taoism (pronounced dowism for those who don't know already- i spent years pronouncing it with a T). I suppose i would just expand upon the simplistic principle presented here to say that it isn't always 'inaction' but rather a minamization of expended energy - or using less effort to accomplish more. that is also a gross simplification, but it is how i tend to think of wu wei in my life. of course i also like the example of using a rock to divert water rather than digging a trench  This is not to say i know a lot about the Tao (prounced dow) but wu wei is the one thing that stuck with me from my studies of it.

I kinda like the norse Edda's myself.


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## Kris (May 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *I kinda like the norse Edda's myself. *


Edda is excellent!  Is Edda well know to Americans? Perhaps I'm narrowminded, but I never thought it was.


Kris


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## nkuvu (May 30, 2002)

Okay, fair is fair.  I shared about Taoism, now you have to share about Edda.  I guess I'm a typical American (though it pains me to say that  ) because I have never heard of Edda.  I don't even have any clue as to what Edda is.  A person?  A belief system?  A place?  



> I suppose i would just expand upon the simplistic principle presented here to say that it isn't always 'inaction' but rather a minamization of expended energy - or using less effort to accomplish more.


Of course it's not inaction.  Didn't that become obvious from my other post??    What I mean is that if you do no action, you'll end up with a sad child sitting on a swing.  If you push full force (and continue pushing), you'll end up with a scared child hanging for dear life from the swing.    You have to use action appropriately as well as inaction.


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## nkuvu (May 30, 2002)

Is anyone out there?


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## Valrus (May 30, 2002)

Ahhhhhhhhh.
Is there anybody out there?

Am/E
Am/F
Am/F#
Am/F
Am/E  Am/D   Am/C   Am/B   Am

Chords to the Pink Floyd song.

Er, that is to say, I don't know anything about Edda. 

-the valrus


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## Klink (May 30, 2002)

I edda tuna fish sandwich today. 

Just a little pin prick. Goooood.
Just nod if you can hear me.


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## Valrus (May 30, 2002)

Uh oh, we'd better stop before we build a Wall in nkuvu's thread.

Isn't Taoism all about money?

No seriously, I hear it on the radio, on our news station all the time...

"The Tao rose fifteen points today..."

Ha ha, just joshin' with ya nkuvu. 

-the valrus


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## nkuvu (May 30, 2002)

Is anybody _in_ there?

...

That'll keep you going for the show
C'Mon, it's time to go


I have no problems with a Wall here.  Maybe it'll keep the Tao steady.


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## Klink (May 30, 2002)

I can only say this...
Sassafras!


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## RacerX (May 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Valrus _
> *"The Tao rose fifteen points today..." *



lol, love that one. I'll have to remember that one!


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## nkuvu (May 30, 2002)

Yeah, and they say that we Westerners don't know anything about Eastern religion...


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## Kris (May 31, 2002)

Sorry, nkuvu, I suddenly got a million things to do yesterday, but I'll explain about Edda now. 

It exists two Edda; The Elder Edda and the Younger Edda. The youngest is also called Snorre-Edda, and it got it's name because it's a lot like the Elder Edda. 
As you probably know Snorre Sturlason was anc Icelandic author, who lived from 1179 to 1241. When he lived, he was looked upon as a chief and not an author. And Snorre is the author of Edda. 

One could write a million pages about Norse litterature, but I have shortened it down to Håvamål/Hávamál. Hávamál is a long poem about how human should live. It's actually old moral, but it's very useful, even today. 

An example (verse 10 of Hávalmál) in various languages:

*Icelandic*
(some letters may not be possible to view)
Byri betri                       
ber-at maur brautu a
en sé manvit miki.
Aui betra
<thorn>ykir <thorn>a í ókunnum sta;
slíkt er volas vera.     

*Old Norwegian*
Betre byrdi
du ber kje i bakken
enn mannevit mykje.
D`er betre enn gull
i framand gard;
vit er vesalmanns trøyst.       

*English*
Better gear than good sense           
A traveller cannot carry,             
Better than riches for a wretched man,
Far from his own home,   

*Old English* 
Better burden bearest thou nowise
than shrewd head on they shoulders;
in good stead will it stand amongst stranger folk,
and shield when unsheltered thou art.


The Younger Edda was written at the end of year 1200, and was found on Iceland in 1643. It does not only consist of Hávamál, but also other "God-poems", "Hero-poems" (not a good name, I just didn't know what to call it) and so on. The most famous one is, I'd say, Hávamál, Voluspå and Trymskvida.

I hope it was at least a bit clearer now. 


Kris


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## xoot (May 31, 2002)

This thread was congrats, but it ended in a whole different subject. 

Not to say that it ended...


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## xaqintosh (May 31, 2002)

That was Yen, this is tao


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## edX (May 31, 2002)

xoot - you just don't get it do you. congrats threads have never been about post counts!! or about patting each other on the back!! They are about people and talking and having some fun that isn't technical - sorta like the B&G only generally with a smaller, more focused group of people. and they don't end until the person being congrated decides they no longer care to converse. 

i'm sorry, but i just wish you had something to contribute that was something more than commentary about the site and how postings are going. Surely there must be a mind in that head of yours that thinks real thoughts and ponders deep questions. or observes little things and goes "hmmm" or at least absorbs some of what goes on around it. Try sharing those things with us instead of worrying about how a thread is going or how many posts you managed to get out today.

ok nkuvu - another semi-random quote from the ElderEdda - 

_from Sayings of the High One_

Better no prayers than too many presents,
gift ever looks for gift;
rather be forgotten  than fed too much
Thus wrote Odin before the world began,
when he rose up when he returned.

I know spells no king's wife can say
and no man has mastered;
one is called "Help" because it can comfort
the sick and careworn, relieve all sorrows.

_ or this from the same poem which seem like words xoot should hear_

Cattle die, kinsmen die,
one day you die yourself;
but the words of praise will not perish
when a man wins fair fame.


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## nkuvu (May 31, 2002)

I live!

OK, so no one probably noticed, but my roommate turned off the phone service at our old place today, and I didn't get phone access until now at our new place.

But I'll be offline for the next few days while we scramble to get everything moved.  I'll be sure to let everyone know once I'm back.

Have fun, relax, and all that good stuff.  I'll be back before you know it.  But rest assured that I'll be counting the seconds until I can get back online...


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## Valrus (May 31, 2002)

Well, I think that SDAFNdksn ank ldsajo  lodsa937u205 njEJ: LEFHJ K SK :GVJO:J OG

Sorry, xaqintosh's avatar made me have a seizure!

-the valruanvoramda fnsand nk lfwenkn sfdl';l'sadk l;'dsapf[


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## xaqintosh (May 31, 2002)

OH NO, MY AVATAR IS SPREADING HAVOC AND CHAOS!! It's like a rabid pokémon on a furied rampage!    

Ok, should I change it? I think  I like it...


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## Kris (Jun 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *[...] They are about people and talking and having some fun that isn't technical - sorta like the B&G only generally with a smaller, more focused group of people. and they don't end until the person being congrated decides they no longer care to converse. *


Well said Ed! 

Have you read a lot of the Elder Edda, Ed? Read some from Hávamál, or the Younger Edda in general? (I must admitt I have read way too little of both, especially the Elder.) Do you know if Norse litterature a part of the American  curriculum?


Kris


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## xoot (Jun 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *Ok, should I change it?*



Yes, please. It will get annoying. Avatars like this are only fun for a short time (get it?).


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## edX (Jun 1, 2002)

Kris - i have read large parts of both the Eldar and Younger (poetry and prose) Eddas as part of a class at Ohio State University called Norse Mythology. I dual majored in psyhology and religious studies. It was a very popular class but was only taught every few quarters at the time i was there. 

Norse mytholgy is not a part of our general curriculum. In fact finding good norse mythology books that aren't purely academic is pretty hard. but there are lots of books on the modern 'popularized' forms of norse paganism and there are plenty of clans of those who are "tru" to the old ways. While i am not a member of such a group, i have known many who are and include norse religion in my own hodgepodge invention of personal paganism. I even have 2 cats named Thor and Freja. 

so what do you think - has ragnorak taken place already or are we still waiting for it?


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## xoot (Jun 1, 2002)

Ragnarok, you mean. The game?


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## edX (Jun 1, 2002)

no xoot, i mean the event that is the battle of the Gods in which the old Gods and the world are destroyed and the new ones begin everything anew. Mankind would not know anything had happened because the new Gods restore everything on earth just as it was.  Literally it means "Twilight of the Gods". You can find more about it in "The Deluding of Gylfi" in the prose Edda or "Sybil's vision" in the poetic Edda. The prose includes much of the poetic and is more explanitive.


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## Kris (Jun 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *Norse mytholgy is not a part of our general curriculum. In fact finding good norse mythology books that aren't purely academic is pretty hard.*


Honestly; This makes me really sad. Norse litterature is part of the history to every european, - and therefore an important part of  the American history too. (How can you now who you are, if you don't now your history?) Here where I live, the Norse litterature is something one have to know to take the final exams at school. And some knowledge of the Younger Edda is concidered general knowledge. What is concidered general knowledge of the American history, in the US?




> *so what do you think - has ragnorak taken place already or are we still waiting for it? *


 (Don't you call it _Ragnarok_, by the way) I don't know, but I don't think so really. Ragnarok is a really good picture, though. Someting bad _will_ happen. Some day, but we just don't know when. 


Kris


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## edX (Jun 1, 2002)

uh yea, Ragnarok - excuse my dislesic spelling (and poor spelling in general - hey, i don't rag on you for your not quite perfect English - i can figure out what you mean easy enough  )

yea, i also believe that it is yet to happen. which is why i worship the old Gods and not the new.

the fact that the Norse were the last european peoples to be Christianized is probably why their history is not considered important here.  what can i say, average xtians tend to ignore the real world from which they come if it isn't in the bible or based upon it. at least in america. I once dropped a university class on xtianity because the professor refused to accept my assertion that a relief in a n. german church was Odin and not Jesus just because the text book said so. Frankly, i doubt Jesus has ever been portrayed with such a large phallus as the one in the pic. yes, sad but true. 

general american history knowledge - well, we have the advantage of being such a new country that we have a lot less to be concerned about. While we certainly study the history of the world on a superficial level, i think the emphasis has been on reducing differences based upon cultural backgrounds rather than celebrating them. About the only mythology we are held accountable for is some greek and roman. 

as far as our own history, we are normally expected to know about Columbus (despite the fact that the Vikings really discovered the place) and the revolutionary war, and well... all our wars, and things like the constitution and Bill of Rights and state capitols. Mostly we are taught the kinds of things you tend to forget after awhile of not thinking about them 

so, just where in n. europe are you?


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## Kris (Jun 1, 2002)

The reason for my question, was not to rag on your spelling.  I suddenly started to wonder if it was written that way in English. 


> *
> the fact that the Norse were the last european peoples to be Christianized is probably why their history is not considered important here.*


 Oooh!  That's an interesting topic, actually. - What would have happend to the Norse contries if the Christianity hadn't come? (Though it was just a matter of time..)

Where I come from...? Northern Europe. 


Kris


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## satanicpoptart (Jun 1, 2002)

congrats on the big 1000!


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## xoot (Jun 1, 2002)

You will be soon saying congrats to me! *evil laugh*


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## edX (Jun 1, 2002)

well kris, certainly don't take my spelling as cause for questioning a word, especially a foriegn word. Even americans aren't so crass as to respell a specific word with such important meaning.

gee, i would never have guessed you were from northern europe.  do you have a country or a city or are you just living on a barge and traveling from city to city? It hardly seems like too much to ask for your country. i can't imagine anyone would attack you for that. N. europe includes quite a few different cultures. 

as for christianity - i don't think there are any parts of the world where the propaganda hasn't been spread by now. I think the interesting thing is how quickly the norse adopted it once exposed to it. Of course, already having a God name Jezu (or various spellings like that which are close to Jesus) was probably a big part of it. Yet, they clung to the old ways at the same time. In fact, i believe the whole decision to convert was because of a shamanic ritual that was performed and the seer came out with the vision that they should do it.


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## Kris (Jun 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *gee, i would never have guessed you were from northern europe.  do you have a country or a city or are you just living on a barge and traveling from city to city?*


I'd prefer not to say..  


> *In fact, i believe the whole decision to convert was because of a shamanic ritual that was performed and the seer came out with the vision that they should do it. *


The main-reason for the converting was compulsion. Churches were build on old sacred places, and you could be killed if you didn't follow the new rules. In the begining the Christianity was mixed with the old religion, and the fact the church had saints at that time, probably made it a lot easier to accept the new religion. Another important reason is the fact that the churches were maintained by the people. They also payed the priests. That way the new religion were close, and not distant. The Christianity also "connected" the Norse contries more to the rest of Europe, with i.e the Latin alphabet. 


Kris


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## nkuvu (Jun 4, 2002)

I think it's pretty ironic that Christianity, which preaches tolerance and compassion, uses force to convert others to the faith.  I've heard of this happening before, so it's not a surprise.

Thought I'd toss that in there to try to pretend to be on topic.  But it's really just a digression.

I hurt.  We moved almost our entire house full of stuff on Saturday.  There were three other people who were going to help us move, but two (a married couple) decided to go to Phoenix to look at a truck that they were thinking of buying.  One thought that there would be too many people (like there are ever too many people to move) and so didn't show up.  So it was just me and my roommate, and we're both about to die.

It didn't help that last weekend was apparently the busiest moving weekend of the year.  I didn't think to reserve a rental truck (our car is way too small for a lot of our stuff).  I spent two hours trying to find a truck to rent in Tucson.  At first I was driving around, then decided (wisely) to start calling instead.  Keep in mind that each phone call was about thirty seconds long.  It still took me about two hours.  There are a _lot_ of truck rental places in Tucson, and _none_ of them had a truck available for rent.  I agreed to have my name put on a waiting list, thinking that I'd never get the truck.  At 1:00pm I got a call -- the truck was available, but only until 5:00.  So my roommate and I got the truck, packed the stuff (we were really unprepared for this move), loaded the truck, drove over and unloaded the truck, cleaned the truck, and returned the truck by a little after 4:00pm.  Three hours to move our entire place.  And all in 95º weather.

The nice thing is that we have almost everything moved over here.  I still have Nkuvu (the tortoise) over at the old place, because I need to find a way to get her new house over here.  And we still have the goldfish over there, too.  But that's all a long story, which I don't feel up to right now.  Just wanted to let everyone know that I haven't perished...

I'm tired, so I'm off to bed.  Peace and pleasant dreams.


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## edX (Jun 4, 2002)

i truly empathize with you my friend.  You really find out who your real friends are when you move. You find out what someone's word is worth. and i know that physical pain all too well. it is the reason so much stays in boxes that you expected to unpack the next day 

as for the compulsion of Christianity, it wasn't really that clear cut. The norse probably would have won an outright battle like they had every time before. But like i said, the leaders let a shaman type make the decision and from then on it was more a matter of enforcing their own decision than of bowing to the conquering heroes. not that you were wrong about christianity having been forced upon lots of other cultures. but the norse were a very different story and so very unique in history.  

and Kris you are very right about the new being built upon the old, with the new being built by believers in the old, so there are lots of pagan symbols in those old places of worship. many have since been 'adopted' by the church. others disguised or interpreted to fit modern theology. but then, it was ok to worship both as long as you worshiped Jesus as the head God so to speak. and the connecting with the rest of Europe, not really sure if that was a good or bad thing when we look back on it from this point.


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## Kris (Jun 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *as for the compulsion of Christianity, it wasn't really that clear cut. The norse probably would have won an outright battle like they had every time before. *


I think you should read the story of the battle at Stiklestad, Norway.


> *
> and the connecting with the rest of Europe, not really sure if that was a good or bad thing when we look back on it from this point. *


 When Christianity came to the Norse countries, they built monasteries. In other words they brought with them the latin alphabeth and more complex arts of writing. More people learned to read and write. This layed the fundament for the advantage Gutenberg's later inventions. I'm sure it would have come anyway, but not until later. The Norse countries now became a part of Europe, in a whole new diferent way. And this was positive. Of course, there was negative aspects too. The Norse people suffered a lot under the Christianity for a long time. 

nkuvu; I'm sorry your moving didn't go so well.. You have my sympathy.


Kris


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## nkuvu (Jun 4, 2002)

It's pretty sad, but I know next to nothing about European history.  In school we memorized dates (1066 Battle of Hastings!) but don't ask me to even explain what they are.  I mean, the fall of Rome is pretty obvious, but I have no idea what the Battle of Hastings was all about.  Some grumpy people, I'm sure.  

Moving wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it wasn't fun.  The worst part is that no one seemed to be really upset about the fact that they didn't help.  The two friends who went to Phoenix honestly forgot that we were moving this weekend when they made the appointment to look at the truck.  But their response was "Well, we _would_ have helped you move."  Oh well, what's done is done, and I'm not sore anymore, so I guess I can stop dwelling on this and move on with my life.  

Another semi-random question (or two) about the Edda -- how long is it, and is it all in short verses like the examples provided so far?


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## nkuvu (Jun 5, 2002)

Uh, can you say *bump*?  

So here I am again, talking to myself...

Hey, anyone, how crowded are European schools?  What's an average class size?  How well are teachers paid?

If anyone is interested in seeing some pictures of the new house, let me know and I'll post a web page.  If not, then I won't go to the trouble.

Is everyone's life getting really busy, or is this just not an interesting thread?  Like I've said before, it's OK -- I can amuse myself...


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## Kris (Jun 6, 2002)

I read through some of my older posts in this thread, and discouvered that I had written something wrong about the Eddas. The _youngest_ is also called Snorre-Edda, not the eldest (I have corrected it now). Anyway. I'm no expert on the Edda, but what I know is that most of the Elder Edda is written in verse, like the examples I showed from Hávamál. A lot of the Elder, which is about families and such, is not written in verse, but I honestly don't know if this goes for the whole of the Elder Edda.

European schools have between 20 and 30 students in each class. And it's very common with at least three or four classes at each level. Teachers doesn't, as far as I know, earn that much money. But I know that in Switzerland they have different policy. There, the teachers that teaches the _youngest_ kids, earn the most. Which is, in my opinion, not such as bad idea. 

I've got a question..  A strange on, though. 
- How can one determine if a person is nice or not? I know, "nice" is pretty relative, but still.. I'm asking this because I know a person, which I find really interesting, but I'm not quite sure this person is nice. He speaks a lot about himself. He's also very argumentativ, and argues with _everything_ he doesn't agree with. Everything. All the time. Perhaps the reason for his behaviour is insecurity, I don't know. Any thoughts?



Kris


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## roger (Jun 6, 2002)

> but I'm not quite sure this person is nice. He speaks a lot about himself. He's also very argumentativ, and argues with everything he doesn't agree with. Everything. All the time.



I think that you have answered your own question here.

When it comes down to this sort of decision I always rely on gut feelings. You are the only person who really knows.

R.


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## nkuvu (Jun 6, 2002)

I think it is going to be very difficult for anyone to tell you if he is nice or not, unless they know him.  Argumentative doesn't necessarily mean bad.  He could just like to argue.  My sister and her husband argue all the time, but it's something that they both enjoy doing.  It sounds a little strange, but they have a great relationship (from what I can tell, of course) and can agree on the things that really matter.

How does he treat other people?  How often does he listen to the other side of the argument?  How much does he do for other people?  Does he go out of his way to find arguments, or does he just attack the things that come up?

Just some more things to ponder...


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## nkuvu (Jun 7, 2002)

Roger, I have a question for you -- where is your avatar?  About half of the time I see you post, there's a nifty mountain avatar.  The other half of the time it's a broken image.  Do yo just have it on your computer, and it goes away when you disconnect?


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## macguy17 (Jun 7, 2002)

Personally I've never seen his avatar.


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## edX (Jun 7, 2002)

i'm pretty sure his avatar is always there for me. i'll start checking more closely. (the hardy boys go back to the clubhouse and get ready to embark on "the Case of the Missing Avatar")


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## Kris (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nkuvu _
> *How does he treat other people?  How often does he listen to the other side of the argument?  How much does he do for other people?  Does he go out of his way to find arguments, or does he just attack the things that come up?*


I have thought about your questions nkuvu, and my "conclusion" is that he's not nice. - At least not nice enough. But his benefit is his way of talking. Scary.


Kris


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## Valrus (Jun 7, 2002)

My ex-girlfriend argues about EVERYTHING, whether she agrees with it or not, but in a thought-provoking rather than a belligerent way. It would be kind of easy to think that she just likes to argue but the truth is she just likes to talk, and having to play Devil's Advocate is a small price for her to pay for an interesting discussion.

-the valrus


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## Kris (Jun 9, 2002)

I don't mind people talking  (or arguing), but I find it rude when people interrupt when I'm trying to say something; all the time. After a while they just get on my nerves.. But then again, not everybody fits together in a friendship (/realationship), and that's just they way it is. 


Kris


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## Valrus (Jun 9, 2002)

Heh, well, whereas arguing can be perfectly all right, _interrupting_ all the time is just pretty much always a pain in the (self-censored).

-the valrus


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## xoot (Jun 9, 2002)

Interrupting has been drastically reduced by the invention of online forums. 

Interruption is most common in telephone conversations, so we're pretty much safe.


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## nkuvu (Jun 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xoot _
> *Interrupting has been drastically reduced by the invention of online forums.
> 
> Interruption is most common in telephone conversations, so we're pretty much safe. *


And if all of your communication is through online forums, you're safe.  If you're anywhere near normal you converse with one other person (via phone or face to face) at least once a day.

But then again, we're talking about xoot here, so...


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## xoot (Jun 9, 2002)

Oops... I forgot this:

But, in online forums, there are people called insane posters, which post one-word, one-letter, or meaningless posts, therefore making interruptions. You can ignore them, but they are very annoying.

That was me!


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## edX (Jun 9, 2002)

"i'm really a nice guy. If I had friends, you could ask them."

from the movie "Splash"


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## nkuvu (Jun 9, 2002)

You should have posted that to the movie quote thread, Ed.  It needs a boost of rejuvenation juice...

It takes a unique sort of person to be able to ignore interruptions.  I'm not one of them.  I always stop what I am saying.  What's more, I won't continue.  No no, you interrupted me.  That means you weren't listening or didn't care, so why should I say it?  Drives people nuts.  

Oh, I am tired.  I finally got done with the moving bit.  We still had the odds and ends at the old place (there was no pressure since we paid rent for all of June).  You know, the kind that doesn't pack well?  I ended up just piling it in my car, and acting like my car was the big box.  This is after I sorted all the remaining stuff into three piles.  Keep, garbage, and charity.  Unfortunately the keep pile was largest.    The friends I mentioned earlier (who bought the pickup truck) showed up just in time to load the charity pile into their truck and take it away.  Just in time, after I'd basically cleaned the whole place.  I'm not bitter, I didn't expect anyone to help, it was just a lot of work.  Let me start closer to the beginning...

I was born at 8:16pm in....

No, too far back.  Try again.

My roommate works nights.  8pm to 8am in a veterinary emergency clinic.  Yesterday morning she told me that she'd stay up past 8am to help finish moving and cleaning.  I had already planned to have my car serviced (regular maintenance kind of service) and we agreed that I'd drop off the car, and then we'd do some cleaning together.  Well there was a partial misunderstanding.  I knew that the servicing would take about two hours, she apparently missed that part.  Not that I intended to leave her there by herself for that time.  I thought that the dealership would offer drop-off service (where they drive you somewhere while they work on your car).  Not offered on weekends.    So I walked home (to the old place) from the dealership, about a half hour walk.  When I got there, my roommate was surprised to not see the car, and had expected to be able to move the last of our stuff our of the house so we could clean properly.  Well we did the best we could, and got about half of the place clean before I had to go back and pick up the car.  So I trudged off, and we were pretty much done for the day.  Oh, yeah, did I mention that it was 112º yesterday?      I'm pretty sunburned.

So today I went back to finish it off.  I didn't get to do much yesterday, since I was busy trudging around in the blazing sun.  So I expected to spend a bit of time cleaning today.  The sorting and moving of stuff really didn't take long.  What took forever was mopping the living room and kitchen.  It's a tiled house, with white linoleum (I think) tiles.  Well anyway, I didn't realize how bad it was until we moved some of the more permanent things from the house (like the table that was never moved).  Everywhere that we didn't normally walk was white, or pretty darn close.  Everywhere else was a grey color.  Blech.  So I spent nearly three hours mopping a room that's probably no bigger than fifteen feet (about 4.5 meters) square.  At multiple points I had to get down on hands and knees to scrub.  Icky yuck.  I also swept up enough dog hair to fill a pillow.

I really didn't think that we kept our house dirty -- the majority of the dog hair came from underneath furniture, and the floors didn't look bad until compared with the near-pristine white.  We even mopped regularly.

So anyway, our friends with the pickup truck decided that they wanted to buy our washer and dryer, since we have those provided at the new place.  So after spending three hours mopping I got to help them load the washer and dryer into the pickup.

But the old place is completely clean, about a thousand times better than when we moved in.  And all of our stuff is here now.  Which means that it's all piled in the living room, but that should sort itself out fairly quickly.

Yay!  I'm a tired but happy tortoise...

Oh, and before I completely forget -- xoot, there are plenty of people in the real world who talk in short, meaningless sentences.  It's not just an online forum kind of thing.

And sorry for the extra-long post...


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## nkuvu (Jun 10, 2002)

This is a test of the Nkuvu broadcasting system.

Due to recent events, this is my last post on MacOSX.com.

Please contact me at nkuvu@mac.com or nkuvu@yahoo.com

I'd like to keep in touch with the members here.


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## homer (Jun 10, 2002)

All right, this is too weird for me.   

I'm adding my name to the list of the dearly departed.

Bye everybody!  It was fun while it lasted.


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## nkuvu (Jun 10, 2002)

OK, let's try this again.

Call me a liar.  This might be my last post on MacOSX.com

This is the story.
Jadey posted some reviews, both positive and negative, about Press3.
Admin deleted them.
Sithious questioned the deletions.
Admin banned him.
I attempted to ask the same questions.
Admin "moderated" my posts -- they never saw the boards.

I, as well as a significant number of others, left MacOSX.com to go to MacOSXHints.com and MacFora.com.
Now Admin is taking a leave of absence for a week.

Will this post see the boards at all?  Or are we still being "moderated"?


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## nkuvu (Jun 10, 2002)

OK, one hurdle down.

When I left this afternoon, I had 1580 posts.  Now I have 1577.  What was deleted...?

I'll post if I can find out.


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## nkuvu (Jun 10, 2002)

No, I can't find my deleted posts.

I, too, will leave MacOSX.com for a week.  If my post here about what has happened remains intact, I might stay.  But I really enjoy the other two forums, MacOSXHints.com and MacFora.com -- so I'll definitely be staying there at least.

Come see us.


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## nkuvu (Jun 11, 2002)

Jadey's posts were an honest review of Press3.  Some good, some bad.   Admin deleted them, and banned sithious when he asked about them.

Then Admin put full moderation in place.  I think you missed that part, Kris.  Every single post to the boards had to be approved by a moderator.  Posts were being delayed anywhere from two minutes to eternity.  A lot of my posts today never got to the boards.  Some were deleted (three, but I don't know which ones).

A lot of us jumped ship to MacOSXHints.com and MacFora.com.  The people there are really nice -- try them if you get tired of MacOSX.com.  We were settling in there when we found out that Admin backed down.  He's gone for a week, censoring is off, no more moderation of individual posts.  Twyg is in charge in the interim.

I understand his position about wanting this place to be appropriate for all ages.  I don't have a problem with the censoring of words.  But when posts are deleted because they ask honest questions about the site, I think things have gone too far.  Apparently everyone else thinks pretty much along the same lines that I do.

I think Admin's idea of leaving for a week is a good one, and I think I am going to do the same.  I will be active on the other boards I mentioned, I'm sure they'd welcome you over there too.  If Admin returns and seems to have come to his senses, I'll come back.  But I am staying over there, too.  I like all three boards.


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