# A thought on iTV.



## Qion (Oct 6, 2006)

I was thinking about the new iPod when I had the epiphany that IF the new iPod is capable of playing DVD-quality video, then it could output that video just the same. It'll probably have a large hard drive also, being able to hold a variety of movies and medias. If this is true, then what's the point of iTV? Buy an iPod, a connection kit, and you're set. Already we've seen Front Row-like 3rd party additions to the iPod, allowing a graphical interface to be displayed on a TV screen. Why should the next-gen model be any different?


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## symphonix (Oct 6, 2006)

There is no way known that a pocket sized device like the iPod will ever be able to achieve true DVD quality video and audio. The current offerings on iTunes movie store are all equivalent to standard-definition video with stereo (non 5.1) sound.

Besides, by that logic nobody would ever buy hifi CD players - after all, who would buy a full sized CD player that takes up space on your shelf, when a portable CD player does the same job?


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## fryke (Oct 6, 2006)

Well, yeah, but iTV is fed from your harddrive, and Apple intends to fill that with iTunes movies as well, so that point (iPods not achieving true DVD quality) is moot...

I think iTV is _quite_ useless per se. From what Steve showed us, I didn't think it had a harddrive at all. If it's got one, I don't think it's for recording anything from TV, rather for buffering large files streaming from your Macs/the 'net. But wasn't there already a thread about iTV? And why the Café? Moving this to Apple N&R...


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## Qion (Oct 6, 2006)

symphonix said:


> There is no way known that a pocket sized device like the iPod will ever be able to achieve true DVD quality video and audio. The current offerings on iTunes movie store are all equivalent to standard-definition video with stereo (non 5.1) sound.
> 
> Besides, by that logic nobody would ever buy hifi CD players - after all, who would buy a full sized CD player that takes up space on your shelf, when a portable CD player does the same job?



It would be wrong to say that the new iPod will _not_ be able to output DVD quality video and audio. The movies on iTunes Store are a little under DVD-quality, I know, which in my opinion increases the likelihood of iPods being able to play them. 

My point was not to say the new iPod could do everything an iTV could do, but to examine the possibility of it getting damn close.


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## Thank The Cheese (Oct 6, 2006)

I think it's a good point Qion raises. The iTV is not going to be much cheaper than an iPod, so if the iPod even comes close to doing what the iTV does, I don't see much reason to but the iTV. Of course, we still don't know what they have in store. Perhaps the iTV can do more than we think (ie. TV tuner, HDD, etc.). Maybe they are holding off releasing 6G iPods until iTV is ready because there is some sort of special integration with it that will make us want both. 

I have a thought of my own on iTV. I find it a little hypocritical that Apple would go after mypodder because their name sounds like iPod, then name this an iTV, which sounds exactly like EyeTV. I know it's just a temporary name, but it's still bound to cause confusion until the proper iTV comes out.


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## symphonix (Oct 7, 2006)

Am I the only one here who thinks the iTV (under whatever name they do decide to call it) will actually be a really awesome and useful product for a lot of people - and a good move for Apple as well?

We're living in the era of DVD-R and BitTorrent, a time when downloading and storing movies on your personal computer is a fairly common practice for some people. And these people are the ones who are driving computer hardware sales trends at the moment. 

What if you had a device that you could plug into each TV set in your house, cheaper than an iPod or a PVR, that simply let you access all those movies you have stored on your computer?

I know people who have five TVs in their homes. At the price of an iPod nano (which I expect the iTV will level out at after 6 months) I can really see this sort of person buying the iTV. And not just one, but several, one for each TV set they have.

And then what? Video podcasts will take off in a new way: news on demand, and popular TV shows, all available at the touch of a button, many of them for free.

Think about it - you say that you *can* do all of these things with an iPod. You can hook it up to your TV and use it to shuttle movies between your Mac and your TV. But does anyone ever actually use it in this way? No, because thats not really what its for, and its too time consuming a job. You have to convert the movie to MP4, import it into iTunes, sync your iPod, unhook the iPod, carry it to another room, hook it to the TV ... and since you can really only store a couple of movies like this, nobody ever actually bothers to do it.

However, the iTV will be more like Airport Express, but for video, and with a built in interface & remote. Rip a DVD into your Mac, or download a movie, and then go straight to your lounge room, and its there ready and waiting for you.

This will change things for video on the internet in a way that will be quite important. Think of Podcasting - the technology was there years before people were doing it. Even before the iPod and iTunes, it was possible to make a radio show, upload it to a website as an MP3, then let people download and listen to it. But did anybody do this? Hardly ever. And why not? Because it was too much effort.

But as soon as you provide an automated way of managing the media, from the recording to transferring to a player, then it all becomes simple and everybody starts doing it. I think the iTV will do the same thing that the iPod did: it'll slowly but surely change the way we use media.


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## Lt Major Burns (Oct 7, 2006)

i still can't beleive that the huge, but financially-troubled national British tv station ITV still hasn't filed at least a small class-action suit against apple...


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## Thank The Cheese (Oct 7, 2006)

@symphonix
you are right, I think it will be a good move on apple's part. I'm not convinced it will take off though, I'm just not sure the general public is ready for it yet. There's a major mindset shift that needs to happen. 

My fundamental issue with iTV and iTV-like devices is that you still need to have a computer on in the other room. I've used a few things over the last couple of years, like XBMC and streaming to an old iBook from my iMac, but it just didn't seem right to have an entire computer on so that I can sit in front of the TV. 

Eventually what I did was just move my iMac into my lounge room, and it has become my main TV (until I can afford a dell ultrasharp and a Mac Mini to replace it). 

For me, I feel the device that attaches to the TV has to *be* the means, not just  the ends. It has to be the place where I download and store the media, not just the place where it plays from. 

But that's just me. Perhaps I"m in the minority.


@Lt Major Burns
True. I guess apple could always say "oh, but that was just a thing we called it so people knew what we were talking about in that little keynote". I don't think ITV could do anything unless apple tried to trademark it. but i'm no lawyer, so i could be wrong!


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## tagliatelle (Oct 7, 2006)

> Am I the only one here who thinks the iTV (under whatever name they do decide to call it) will actually be a really awesome and useful product for a lot of people - and a good move for Apple as well?



I know from your personal messages to me that you are writing in reality "Steve keeps your Mickey Mouse.". I have seen Pirates of the Caribian on television. The acting was soo irealistic that this is typical Apple. At least the girl in the movie was nice.


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## AhhChoo (Oct 7, 2006)

> I know from your personal messages to me that you are writing in reality "Steve keeps your Mickey Mouse.". I have seen Pirates of the Caribian on television. The acting was soo irealistic that this is typical Apple. At least the girl in the movie was nice.



Please stop sending me personal messages.  I am no longer a chinese laundry, although I still charge big money for brainwashing.  You might want to consider a prefrontal lobotomy; I can do it for you at a 20% discount.
(I empathize for the tragic loss of your mind but, I'm convinced, as time goes by you'll realize that you're far better off without it)
If you need someone to feed your demons while you're away in a parallel universe, let me know.  A speedball a day keeps them fat and sassy, you know.
Well, ciao for now pussycat. A suicide bomber blew up our outhouse so I've got to go order a Port-a-Potty, pronto.


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## fryke (Oct 7, 2006)

Erh... Okay, back on topic... I've already offered my view on "iTV" in another thread. What we've already _heard_ about it, I think it's not worth the price. Question is whether there's more to it that Apple hasn't talked about yet. Will it have a harddrive, any recording capability, double as a WiFi router like the AirPort Express does etc. We just don't know yet.

Of _course_ there's no lawsuit, btw. - There's *no* Apple product called iTV. There was only an announcement that Apple will introduce a product they internally currently call iTV - and they _said_ this was not the final name. I personally think it'd be a bad name, anyway. It's not a TV, it's a settop-box. I guess they'll come up with something. "AirPort Video" would not be too wrong in my opinion.


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## mindbend (Oct 7, 2006)

Boy, I have to say after reading these posts that the majority here simply do not get it. Symphonix seems to be the only one who got it right. Granted, the iTV may not be for everyone, but for a lot of us it fits the bill perfectly. I can't wait to get mine.

Here's why. I've got my main computer in my den. That's where I want to keep everything because that's the machine I use most (although I roam the house with a laptop and have iPods). I have my central library of music and videos and iPhoto slide shows. Now how do I view view or listen to that content? 

I can just use that computer, but I really hate sitting in front of a computer watching videos or listening to music. It's not exactly sitting on the couch with a bowl of popcorn.

I can manually move that content to an iPod, but then I have to move the iPod to where I want it, hook it up, back and forth. No thanks, but it's fine in a pinch.

I could use a Mac mini or similar as a dedicated media player. Not too bad, but then you've got to babysit the mini. How do get files to it? You can push or pull them over the network or download them directly, but then you've really just got a full fledged computer instead of a media player. I don't want to be mousing around with a device next to my TV or shoving files to it from a machine in the other room. Not to mention the video output limitations.

Enter the iTV. I'm putting one in every room. Yeah it's a bit pricey, but think about what you're getting. You're paying for CONVENIENCE. That's the entire point. The iTV is the access point to my media library. And from any TV in the house, I'm a remote control click away from all of it. Now THAT's what I've been waiting for. Thank you iTV.

iTV won't explode like the iPod, mostly because it will be a Mac only thing I assume (at least for a while). But I guarantee you, for its audience, it's perfect. Now if Apple can just get their movie library a lot bigger and 720P or better, we'll be good to go.

(Side note, Apple clearly stated that iTV is a placeholder name).


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## symphonix (Oct 7, 2006)

Thank The Cheese said:


> My fundamental issue with iTV and iTV-like devices is that you still need to have a computer on in the other room. ... it just didn't seem right to have an entire computer on so that I can sit in front of the TV.



You're not crazy, Thank The Cheese, this is exactly right. This is another point that Apple are grappling with at the moment, and have been for the past ten years. Everything anybody has been saying about computers since the appearance of the fax-modem in the late eighties has been "wow, now I can use my computer to do x, but only if I leave it running. And I hate leaving my computer running just for a simple little task like that."

Thinking about it, I can name a hundred things that people would like to use their home computers for, if only it didn't mean leaving a noisy, humming power-draining box running 24/7. For instance:
* BitTorrent
* Answering Machine / Fax machine
* Videophone
* "Dashboard" style quick-access reference and calculation widgets.
* Personal file server / web server / media centre
* Downloading podcasts, etc.

So, on one side you've got all these great things you could use your computer for, and on the other the fact that it just isn't convenient to do it all the time because computers - even in this day and age - are still disruptive.

This is what Apple was talking about back in 1999 when Jobs was describing the "Media Hub" surrounded by more specialised devices. The iPod and iTunes is just a hint at where they are trying to get to. Airport Express was another step in that direction. And the iTV is the next step. Some other technologies also feature in this progression, such as Bonjour and XGrid.

What comes after this, though, is quieter, more specialised devices to act purely as "workhorse" computers that will not be disruptive AT ALL. We'll leave them behind the TV cabinet or under a desk, they'll have no fans and silent hard-drives, and no bright LEDs to disturb our sleep. 

How we'll use these systems of the future will evolve as well. I'm very excited about e-ink displays. Now picture a home ten years from now with a couple of these "workhorse" systems in a kitchen cupboard holding all your movies, music and other media. Now picture yourself reading yourself to sleep at night with the latest novel from your favourite author on a tiny, 4mm thick e-ink device with wi-fi capability. And then, in the morning, you pick it up and the morning newspaper is already there, downloaded by the workhorse computers in the depth of the night, and sent by wi-fi or bluetooth to your e-Ink reader. You read the paper over breakfast, then get dressed and cleaned up and climb into your car, which has retrieved some music overnight by syncing with your iTunes library. As you start up, it checks the traffic reports courtesy of your home network and will warn you of any potential worries.

Perhaps we'd do well to ask why the iPod has been such a runaway success. Lots of competitors were out there. Sony seemed to be putting out a new technology every year throughout the nineties: DAT tape, Minidisc, NetMD - and none of them hit. The reason wasn't because the technology was inadequate, it was because none of these new technologies was being applied in a way that allowed new, smarter ways of doing things. The iPod and iTunes were designed to change the way people actually used their media, and as a result it was a hit.

Does anyone else remember Apple's "Knowledge Navigator" video from 1985ish? The one thing that sticks out in that video for me now isn't the human-language interface - its the fact that at the end of it, when the man says "Oh well, I'm off to lecture the next class" he leaves this brilliant, helpful device sitting on his desk rather than taking it with him. Nowadays, thats hard to believe. But in 1985, we still didn't really have laptops or cellphones, so we hadn't even started to think like that.

I think we're still at one of those embryonic stages - we're looking at a technology that is emerging and we aren't quite seeing yet what it will lead to. When we bag out the iTV and say "come on, who would want something like that?" we sound just like those guys who, in 1980, said "What would ordinary people want with a computer?", or in 2001 said "This iPod thing is just a gimmicky, over-priced device and we already have the Creative Nomad". At least Apple seems to be the only IT company out there willing to take steps forward, again and again, to explore how we use technology.


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## karavite (Dec 4, 2006)

Anyone see 60 Minutes last night, they had the founder and CEO of Netflix on and mentioned Apple getting into movies with "iTV." Netflix is gambling that snail mail delivery has a bit of lifespan left to it, but accessing movies on the network seems the obvious way to go here. Netflix is also working on that. I say Apple is well positioned to make this happen and the iTV or whatever it is called has to come out. They won't be the only ones. Some day I would love an iTunes like search interface for all movies - everyone else's search blows.

Any way, I can see the technology working, but what about price? 99 cents is fine for a song, but if apple charges 5, 10 or more for a movie, it just isn't worth it. Do you think they would ever offer a subscription model like Netflix? That's what would get me on board (and I have been using Netflix for many years). 

Oh, if iTV is trademarked, how about "iTube" or iVision or iDiotBox?


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## eric2006 (Dec 4, 2006)

karavite said:


> Any way, I can see the technology working, but what about price? 99 cents is fine for a song, but if apple charges 5, 10 or more for a movie, it just isn't worth it. Do you think they would ever offer a subscription model like Netflix? That's what would get me on board (and I have been using Netflix for many years).



It's actually not much for a movie, but people are comfortable paying more for a DVD because they can _use_ it. With a digital movie, they can play it on their iPod, or computer, or, after much setup, perhaps on their TV. An iTV device would effectively replace a DVD, because it's faster than going out and buying a DVD, it's cheaper, it works on _every_ video player in the house - not just the TV, and is about the same quality.
Another thing is that you're buying the movie, not renting it, so it seems expensive compared to a rental (though I'm not sure if we really want some hellish DRM scheme to make movies rentable..)


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## symphonix (Dec 5, 2006)

karavite said:
			
		

> Oh, if iTV is trademarked, how about "iTube" or iVision or iDiotBox?



I like the sound of "iVision". In general, though, I'm sick of the "iProduct" naming scheme. Its been abused so much its becoming a joke. Ten years ago it was clever, now its time to let it fade out with a little dignity.


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## love/hate (Mar 23, 2008)

sod paying a fortune for having an itv box next to every tv, 
get the monster itv cable, plug it in to your mini dv/ dv port and then into your standard audio/phono ports on any tvs or screens you have.
you then have access to all your films, tv shows, music, web browsing....you name it. you can do it on any screen, and it's excellent for going to see mates and showing the latest funnies.

this is the best value for money and simplest solution i've found, my macbook acts as my dvd player, music player and library for all data too. and if you have a external drive your possibilities are endless. 
obviously not much use if you're a desktop user, go buy a laptop..

TV IS DEAD


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