# What applications to use with X11? Suggestions and reviews



## Giaguara (Nov 8, 2003)

*Which applications* should/could one run with *X11* (on 10.3)?

What is interesting, on Apple.com site about the X11 there were no list of suggestions of what to use with X11. So suggest and review something here (and give the relative links please). 

*What do you use*, and for doing what? How do you like the applications?

Which of the apps need *Fink*, and which work without? Have you had problems with Fink in 10.3, or does it work seamlessly?


I have right now only www.OpenOffice.org (1.0.3) installed, and I like it. I think I will install GIMP (www.gimp.org) soon, and was considering Bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/) an interesting tool to play with as well. 


*OpenOffice* is easy to install when you get the right version. It works without Fink, and seems to do fine what I need of Office applications. I have apart from OpenOffice also AppleWorks, but the main idea of OpenOffice is to keep the mac M$ free). 

I have used *GIMP* on Linuxes. On OS X it seems to require Fink. Anyone mind to post their GIMP (and any other X11 application) experiences, reviews, suggestions, annoyances, incompatibilites etc here?  ::angel::


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## voice- (Nov 9, 2003)

I've only tried running Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory Linux Version, it didn't work. If anybody made that work, please tell me how...


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## Pengu (Nov 9, 2003)

voice, you know you cant just run a Linux executable and expect it to run, right?


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## voice- (Nov 9, 2003)

Of course I don't know that. I don't have a clue about what X11 is, I just figured it was something which would let me run any UNIX/Linux program in OS X without porting. Yes, I thought they had found a way to do that.
The way I tried running it was by drag/dropping the Linux executable on the X11 app.

Please, tell me what X11 is then, and how to use it...


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## Pengu (Nov 9, 2003)

X11 is an implementation of the X Windows System. For it work, it first has to be at the very least, re-compiled for the appropriate processor-type/OS.


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## Koelling (Nov 10, 2003)

I highly recomend setting up Fink if you want to play with X11. It may be a bit of work to get fink running (although good faqs exist) but once it is running, everything else is much easier. The only X11 program I didn't install with fink was OpenOffice.org.

I use GIMP regularly, and Abiword is a nice lightweight alternative to OpenOffice (although with .doc compatibility in TextEdit there isn't much reason to use that.) I use Dynagraph which is a 3D graphing calculator and xmms is a kickin' mp3 player. 

I've used other programs (in the KDE and Gnome suites) but there weren't any show stoppers. I'm looking forward to a stable version of sodipodi, the vector art program.


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## Darkshadow (Nov 11, 2003)

You don't have to use Fink to get the GIMP working, but there's a lot you have to compile yourself if you don't.  I happen to *enjoy* compiling code myself, so I don't have Fink installed. 

Hmm, I have the GIMP, GKrellM (it's a stat monitoring utility, there are plenty OS X native ones but I really like GKrellM.), xmms...hmm, that's all I have at the moment, though I'm sure I'll add to it.

I also compiled the newest gtk+, though that's not really an app.

I'm thinking of seeing if I can get KDE to compile, and then checking out Konquerer.  I've heard it's a pretty dang good web browser. 

I had also compiled X11 myself, but I decided to go ahead and delete that and install Apple's X11. 


Just to note, I had been using Linux for the 5 years previous to the release of OS X 10.0 (I skipped the public beta), so I'm very used to compiling code.  Heck, I'm kinda missing compiling the kernel.


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## scruffy (Nov 24, 2003)

I mostly use X11 for somewhat more obscure things, like nessus, the vulnerability scanner.  I'm taking an info security course, though, so that's a bit of a special case...

The real killer though is if you have ssh access to a Linux computer (like I have access to a couple at school), then you can 'ssh -X me@the.linux.box' from an xterm window, then you can run graphical apps on the Linux machine and have the display on your own screen.


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## chevy (Nov 24, 2003)

GIMP and OpenOffice

GIMP is fun... but I'm used to Photoshop, interface and I still use it in an old Classic version.

OpenOffice is also quite good, but here I have an MS Office license and I tend to use it for normal work.

What is missing for me to use GIMP and OpenOffice as a regular basis ? A better integration in Panther.


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## pds (Nov 24, 2003)

I had installed OpenOffice on my clamshell, but it didn't make the migration to the new iBook. 

My problem was with clipboard compatibility. Did they solve that yet?


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## ex2bot (Nov 29, 2003)

Voice,

Wolf Linux won't work because it's an X86 binary executable, that is, a program created specifically to run on a Pentium/AMD processor. The Mac's PowerPC uses different instructions and won't run Intel programs. 

It's just like when novice users will ask you if you can run Windows programs on your Mac. Impossible. Well, of course there's VirtualPC, but all that translation adds up to a huge speed hit.

"Open-source" Unix/Linux programs can rather easily be converted to different processors by sending the source code (what the programmer typed) through a compiler program. Obviously, Wolf is not open-source.

They would have to recompile Linux Wolf to run on the PowerPC.

Doug


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## Salvo (Nov 30, 2003)

When I get 'round to installing any X11 Apps, they would have to be Gnumeric, GIMP and maybe Dia and Sodipodi.

I'd still be hesitant about using X11 apps, though... they distrupt the Chi of my User Experience . They just don't belong there... I'm fussy like that, I'm pretty much a Cocoa Facist, I don't even like using Carbon Apps.


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## isolder (Dec 2, 2003)

xscrabble owns me.  Now if only I could network with a Windows user across the country..


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## chemistry_geek (Jan 19, 2004)

OpenOffice and GIMP are what I use most with X11.  I also have M$ Office v.X (stop throwing rocks at me), so I don't really need OpenOffice.  M$ office was $20 at the university I attended; it was cheap, so I bought it.

I would like to know how OpenOffice does linear regression in its spreadsheets.  M$ "cheats" on some linear algebra calculations to speed things up, so it isn't as accurate and contains round-off error.  This is why the U.S. Food and Drug Administration FORBIDS its use in pharmaceutical calculations.


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## heathpitts (Feb 9, 2004)

Pan, gFtp, gimp, nessus, nmap, ettercap, GKrellM


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## Androo (Feb 12, 2004)

i have a linux program running somehow called aMSN, and i can use display pics on it like in the windows MSN 
i had to install Fink, X11, TCL/TK, TLS, and finally the aMSN program.
It took me like 2 days, and now i kno how to use X11


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## Xtian (Mar 2, 2004)

Why didn't you just get the native app? 
http://www.cmq.qc.ca/4w/amsn/


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## TMTOWTDI (May 14, 2004)

Hey, i'm a new user here, and am pretty excited that there are people on here like me. So anyway, i've ran KDE (the popular window manager that runs on most Linux systems), and it's nice because you can use all your existing Filesystem (OS X), but run KDE specific applications. If you're interested, i can tell you how. just hit me back a reply.


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## symphonix (May 16, 2004)

KDE and Gnome both run very nicely, as does Gimp, Abiword and so on.
I highly recommend that if you aren't a Unix power-user who can confidently compile software, you install Fink and FinkCommander.  FinkCommander is a GUI front-end to installing Fink software.

I'd recommend the entire Gnome and KDE install with all the games and gadgets. There's some great stuff in those. SpaceDuel was always a favourite of mine. XMMS, though it isn't iTunes, is pretty neat too.

Incidentally, there is now a Gimp distribution as a .app file, though it requires Apple X11 installed. This means if all you want to do is run Gimp, then you only need to install X11 and double-click the Gimp.app file.


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## totoloren (Jun 13, 2004)

Hello

X11 Extension

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/x11extension.html

On macx 11 and Gimp this extension is really nice. If you start the Gimp from Gnome or KDE, you can select the window when the mouse is over it. You don't need pick it first. (tools window, work window, etc)

Saludos


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## Salvo (Jun 13, 2004)

voice- said:
			
		

> Please, tell me what X11 is then, and how to use it...


X11 is a protocol for running Graphical Programs over the Network.
X11.app is Apples implementation, which is *much* better than any other implementation for MacOS X.

The X Server is what actually displays the program, while the X Client is the Program itself. X11.app is an X Server, GIMP is an X Client. You can display a Client on a remote computer on a Local Server;

For example, you could run Wolfenstein on an x86 Linux machine, and display the output on your Mac, but this would be really slow, since the Display would have to be passed over the network, and the Client hasn't been optimized for your X Server. I personally wouldn't bother.


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## shorty114 (Oct 20, 2004)

totoloren said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> X11 Extension
> 
> ...



is this my answer??? a X11 native to OS X that runs on 10.2? wow...if it is, thanks A LOT!!!


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## leonpmu (Feb 23, 2005)

Running OpenOfice 1.1.2 here on my iMac 400 with 10.3.8 512MB RAM, and works really well.  No Fink, just X11


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## leonpmu (Feb 23, 2005)

Hmm, anybody got evolution to work yet??   Are there noarch sources available??


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## Viro (Feb 23, 2005)

OpenOffice in X11 doesn't work well. Blech. It's horrible and copy pasting from other Mac apps just don't work correctly. Have a look at NeoOffice/J, which is the port of OpenOffice to use Java as a GUI. It runs faster than X11 and is more well integrated into OS X.


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## Viro (Feb 23, 2005)

leonpmu said:
			
		

> Hmm, anybody got evolution to work yet??   Are there noarch sources available??



Why not use fink?


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## xaosai (Mar 2, 2005)

freeciv is destroying my life....but it sure is fun to take on Mordor, Ethiopia, and Mars =)


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## ijo (May 31, 2005)

Hi,


I've installed gkrellm with 'fink'. The gkrellmd starts correctly, but gkrellm complains about 'no fonts found' and directs me to edit fonts.conf and check the fontconfig tool. I'm stopped here...

Anybody had this problem?

I'm running MacOSX 10.4.1, X11 4.4.0 (apple), Xcode 2.0, fink 0.24.6 and gkrellm 2.2.5 (compiled successfully).

Thanks in advance,

Ijo


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## phinsman (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm coming from using Linux full-time at work and home, so I do miss a number of apps, including a few that I wrote in Perl-Gtk2.  To use those, I've been ssh'ing to my Linux box and opening them on here.  Seems to work well enough, aside from things like tray icons, of course.

Gimp has come a long way; even the interface is nice these days.  I'm not sure if the version I have on OS X is as recent as what is out there on Linux.  I haven't really played with it much yet on here.

I think using Fink is a good idea for anyone.  Not only does it save you the worries of gathering all the necessary libraries for compiling source, but also, it's kind of like "Software Update" for your X11 software, assuming it works as apt and yum do, which I do believe it does.  As new versions of a program come out, you can easily upgrade them via Fink.  At work, most everything we install is an rpm via yum; we also make our own rpm's for our in-house software.  They make it so much easier to distribute applications to the end users.

OpenOffice...I love what it is and what it stands for, but man, that is one memory-hogging app.  Even at work I despise using it.  Still, it beats paying Billy Boy the big bucks for Office.  One of these days they're going to get it right too.

Abiword is great if you just need a word processor; nice interface, good features, lightweight.  I haven't compared it to Text Edit though.

Evolution -- I wish this one was out there for the Mac.  I'd be using it right now.  My only complaints are that it still crashes occassionally, and the import/export ability is total crap compared to Thunderbird and even Outlook (did I say Outlook?!?).

Keep an eye open for Thunderbird getting a fully-integrated calendar.  They're working on that at Mozilla...I think.

I always thought Gaim was the best IM app out there...not so sure now that I've seen Adium a little.

ethereal -- not really my thing, but a very good tool.

mplayer -- I haven't tried this yet on OS X.  That thing plays everything though.  I probably couldn't have used Linux at home without it.

Oh yeah -- don't use the built-in Mac terminal.  If you customize xterm, it looks and works much better.  iTerm too for that matter.  Also, if anyone sees mrxvt (tabbed version of rxvt) out there for OS X, please let me know!

Dale


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## chevy (Nov 25, 2005)

Now I have 3 apps under X11:

OOo (Office like)
The Gimp (Photoshop like)
Inkscape (Illustrator like)


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## jerryeng (Dec 24, 2005)

I downloaded Aqua Scribus and Open Office, but haven't done much with them, because what I tried was unsuccessful. I used a MS Publisher file I had made and saved in my PC as a postscript file because I wanted to make it into a pdf file. I put it in my powerbook and tried to open it in Scribus. I could only see the first page which frustrated me. I thought maybe I could see if it was all there in Preview and to my delight it was not only all there, but automatically changed to pdf! I had had my powerbook a year and had hardly used it (too busy on the PC), but this experience won me over and I have used the Mac a lot more since then.

I also wanted to use those "powerful data base tools" in Open Office but have not found any way to get a data base in it without deleting the book data base it seems to have; that looks like it would be nice to use. Also rewriting a data base in order to have it on my Mac is not very appealing. I have a file in MS Access which I would love to get in there. I tried copying it in the PC, to Excell, thinking I could get it in that way but have found no way to do it. (I also don't have my email addresses on this machine because I haven't gotten around to doing that Address Book! I'd like an easier way to bring in my PC email directory from Thunderbird.) 

I read a guide on Access, but don't need such a powerful COMPLICATED data base. Actually what I really want is a data base like the old AppleWorks from the Apple II days!


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## ex2bot (Dec 24, 2005)

AppleWorks is still around and, I think, still being sold. Unfortunately, it's really showing its age, according to what I've read.

I haven't had problems with it in OS X, but others have.


Doug


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## chemistry_geek (Dec 25, 2005)

jerryeng said:
			
		

> I downloaded Aqua Scribus and Open Office, but haven't done much with them, because what I tried was unsuccessful. I used a MS Publisher file I had made and saved in my PC as a postscript file because I wanted to make it into a pdf file. I put it in my powerbook and tried to open it in Scribus. I could only see the first page which frustrated me. I thought maybe I could see if it was all there in Preview and to my delight it was not only all there, but automatically changed to pdf! I had had my powerbook a year and had hardly used it (too busy on the PC), but this experience won me over and I have used the Mac a lot more since then.
> 
> I also wanted to use those "powerful data base tools" in Open Office but have not found any way to get a data base in it without deleting the book data base it seems to have; that looks like it would be nice to use. Also rewriting a data base in order to have it on my Mac is not very appealing. I have a file in MS Access which I would love to get in there. I tried copying it in the PC, to Excell, thinking I could get it in that way but have found no way to do it. (I also don't have my email addresses on this machine because I haven't gotten around to doing that Address Book! I'd like an easier way to bring in my PC email directory from Thunderbird.)
> 
> I read a guide on Access, but don't need such a powerful COMPLICATED data base. Actually what I really want is a data base like the old AppleWorks from the Apple II days!




If you want a more fully functional version of OpenOffice, try NeoOffice (http://www.neooffice.org/).  I use it mostly for wordprocessing, especially for my resume since it has by default a tighter-lined font (more lines/page than MS Word), plus click one button and your document is printed to PDF - very convenient.  I have not used the spreadsheet software very much, though, it doesn't handle Excel spreadsheets with charts well at all - they might have to be recreated inside OOo.  Presentation software works pretty well, opens up all PowerPoint slides with formatting issues, but everything is there.  I have never used any database features - didn't know any existed.

The main advantage of using NeoOffice as opposed to OpenOffice is that NeoOffice is a natively engineered version of OOo written in Java; i.e. it opens much faster on my Dual 2.7 Ghz G5 than the X11 version.  I was very skeptical of trying this since I didn't want different versions of OOo floating around on my computer, but after trying it I'm hooked - it loads fast and is stable.


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## jerryeng (Dec 27, 2005)

The Appleworks now available was originally ClarisWorks I believe. Or perhaps that first came out for the Apple IIgs, not sure. The original AppleWorks was written for the Apple II generation. (Showing my age?) As soon as Apple thought they could get by with it they renamed Mac's program AppleWorks. That old AppleWorks (on one floppy) was a wonder. Combined with MacroWorks, I could do most anything with it! I miss its simplicity, and I was unhappy when Apple stole its name back! Todays apps can do a lot, true, but you need more time to learn how to use them than actually use the things! I started with the Apple IIe in 1985. It was a great machine. I eventually moved up to the IIgs which was a bridge for the Mac. Newer printers were coming out which were hard to connect with so I eventually moved over to the PC. But I was so upset with Apple for abandoning the Apple II line that I wouldn't give in to buying a Mac until six years ago on my 70th birthday. I still haven't completely forgiven them, I guess!


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## JackRepenning (Jan 3, 2006)

Since around half my keystrokes go to XEmacs "a highly customizable open source text editor and application development system," that's my primary X11 application (but if you're asking what to use with X11, XEmacs is probably not the place to start...).

Ethereal, a network tracer, also takes up a lot of my X11 cycles.


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## JackRepenning (Jan 3, 2006)

chemistry_geek said:
			
		

> If you want a more fully functional version of OpenOffice, try NeoOffice (http://www.neooffice.org/).



And it might be worth pointing out, at least here in this thread, that NeoOffice does not require or use X11.


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## scacinto (Jan 21, 2006)

Ardour is an open source, sequencing music editor... yadda yadda.  Does some neat stuff, basically like an open source Cubase LE or some such.  Handles a variety of plug-ins.  There's info on the site as to how to set these up.  There are problems with the automation and some other minute things on the Linux distro, but I haven't had time to run tests on the Mac bin to see if they fixed these or merely translated them right over for us: D  You'll need Jack for it to run.  I'm using Jack 0.100.1 and JackPilot 1.5.8, which are available, free of course, as a simple click-and-install bundle, or you can compile them yourself if you're bored.  Simply open JackPilot, start er up, then double click the Ardour .app which you can get from www.ardour.org.  This will open X11 and you'll be ready to go.  You'll need to spend some time reading up on the program though... if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time pushing buttons that don't do anything : D

cheers

-SP


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## phule (Aug 10, 2006)

Check out GIMPshop 2.2.11 on Freshmeat <http://osx.freshmeat.net/>. It's a fork of GIMP where the user interface more closely resembles Photoshop.


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## cfr (Oct 26, 2006)

Gimp, OpenOffice, xfractint, mrxvt, fontforge, more

I like Gimp a lot and it is lot more stable on OS X now than when I initially used it. It keeps getting better. I also got a very good response when I couldn't get an update to compile - good enough that I could compile, though an update including the fix soon followed. (You don't need to compile it yourself - certainly don't try unless you have experience compiling software and want to for some reason.)

OpenOffice has improved by leaps and bounds on OS X. I have had much better luck with the X11 version than with NeoOfficeJ and like it a lot better. I don't prepare my own documents in it though - I only use it for dealing with documents from others. Actually, I do produce spreadsheets with it and have been very impressed by its compatibility with Excel. I have quite complex spreadsheets when I have teaching assistants - a master spreadsheet picks up data from per-ta spreadsheets etc. I also automate a lot of the calculations, use charts etc. I've had very few problems sending the tas spreadsheets back and forth whether the tas are using Excel on Mac or PC. I did have one issue, but this was resolved once we figured out exactly which format I needed to export in. 

xfractint is a port of the DOS programme fractint. It isn't as stable as the DOS version, but it does have a graphical interface. It is one of the oldest fractal programmes. Currently, it compares very favourably with some of the other programmes available in terms of power and flexibility. It is not, however, a good application to begin exploring either fractals or X11 with. I'm still trying to figure it out - it isn't intuitive at all. 

mrxvt is installed on my Mac (so it is available for Mac now), but I still like Terminal better for most things and I prefer it to iTerm. I run screen instead of using a terminal programme which includes tabs itself.

fontforge is a font editor, converter, viewer, creater etc. Very useful if you ever need to convert fonts from one format to another (e.g. to use a font with TeX). 

I'm not sure by what criteria Apple's X11 is supposed to be better than the alternatives. I would say it depends on what you need to do and what version of OS X you are using. Tiger uses a different version than the previous OSs. Apple's X11 is odd in various ways and still not as stable as I would like. It is also not very up to date. I still use it, but if I needed an application which relied on menus etc. being available in the root window, I might not. I've not had good luck using Apple's X11 in anything but rootless mode. The window manager integrates quite nicely into Mac OS X, but copy/paste isn't as well implemented as it could be (and has been in other implentations).

I'm not personally a fan of fink but, on the other hand, it is a long time since I tried it so I expect it has improved drastically in the meantime. Ditto for macports (was darwinports).

- cfr


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## bhavanaets (Jun 3, 2011)

Hi to all,

  X11 is a cross-platform windowing environment, popular on UNIX systems,work with hardware OpenGL acceleration and integration with Aqua, the Mac OS X graphical user interface.


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