# Site Preview...



## Trip (Nov 7, 2002)

Ok, let's try this:

http://www.TannerSite.com/preview

Comments/opinions are *all* welcome! It's obviously not done yet, but I wanted to check what you all thought before moving on. So...go for it! Post!


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## Jason (Nov 7, 2002)

i like it! 

BUT

im anal about this... too much vertical scroll... you want the viewer to jump into your site and not have to scroll right away... at least IMO

but i love the theme, i think its great work


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## plastic (Nov 7, 2002)

I keep getting problems trying to access your website... is there something I have done wrong in my life?


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## Trip (Nov 8, 2002)

plastic: what kind of errors?


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## Trip (Nov 14, 2002)

It'd thought I'd bump this, seeing as how *I've updated the preview site*. Now the contact and gallery links should work. But don't bother clicking on any of the tiny gallery thumbs, seeing as how they'll do nothing. Anyway:

COMMENTS PLEASE!


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## MacLuv (Nov 15, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 15, 2002)

i'll say again, too much initial vertical scroll!


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## MacLuv (Nov 15, 2002)




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## MacLuv (Nov 15, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *I've seen some good web installations that use this as a feature... *



you are wrong 

im not saying vertical scroll is bad, im saying that the content of the page that is important needs to be visable to users right when they open a page...

but this is just my opinion


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## MacLuv (Nov 16, 2002)




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## MacLuv (Nov 16, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *Uh huh.
> 
> Why should all the content be visable?
> ...



well im very much into designing for the user... with the user in mind, most users like to see what they need to see right away, and then after that find others things...

so if you want users to see something, do you put it at a bottom of a page that 1600 pixels long?

to me its common sense, im not saying scrolling is bad and shouldnt be used at all, thats stupid, im just saying that you want to have most of anything important visible to the user when they open the page, its like a front page of a news paper... they put what they want people to see on the front

but hey maybe im the only one that thinks like this


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## MacLuv (Nov 16, 2002)




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## Trip (Nov 16, 2002)

I'm not "taking sides" here, and I'm not going to state my official opinion on this subject either but:

The user couldn't give a **** if they have to scroll down two clicks or not. It kind of goes along with the topic of setting a pre-defined resolution for your website. For example: if you're designing a webpage in Photoshop under a resolution of 2000x1700 you'll see your page a lot differently than somebody with say a resolution of 800x600. So let's say you decide to set your resolution to 800x600 and make the website, but then what happens to the users with resolutions over 1026x768?

Now so you, and I, can sleep good tonight I'll say this: you can't please everybody. That's the way the world is. Make something so it fits in the average spot and people will view it as above-average. Make something look above-average and it will look awful.


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## MacLuv (Nov 17, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 17, 2002)

when i say user, i mean the average user, which is a user with 800x600 or a 1024x768 resolution, running in a smaller window, runnin on windows, running in IE, that is the "average user"

as far as scrolling goes, hey maybe its just my opinion and a few others that you cater a website to your users because thats what the website is for... unless it isnt, and if thats the case then i'll shut up 

well i'll shut up anyways, you guys are right, make long ass pages and scroll all you want


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## Jason (Nov 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MacLuv _
> *So I've been to your site as well BB... can you tell me who your target audience might be? *



my website was geared towards the average user, it is geared to be usable and simple enough to cater to most needs of users.

i think when you talk about user you are talking about their taste, their likes and dislikes etc, what i am talking about is more specs like, and more general

obviously im not marketing towards soccer moms who like pink rabbits... but i am designing my site with a general user in mind and thats one with the specs i mentioned above

and part of those specs IMO is assuming the user would rather see what they want right away rather than look for it

and like i promised before i'll shut up now


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## MacLuv (Nov 17, 2002)




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## MacLuv (Nov 17, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 18, 2002)

i understand what you are saying, but in this case it is unimportant weather the user likes pink  bunny rabits or morbid sanctuaries, im not talking about PERSONAL likes and dislikes, im talking about TECHNICAL disadvantages

anyways i fully understand what marketing is, i do the same as you for a living, and im not talking about marketing towards a certain audience, im talking about designing (which in itself is different from marketing) with the technical specifications of users in mind to make sure your site is usable and/or not annoying to users

take my site for example, its not marketed for any audience other than to be my portfolio, so its marketed towards me in the basic sense of it all, but it is designed for the "average" user, which is why it is smaller and rather simple, so that most, if not all users can have good access to my site

i couldnt care less about a persons personal tastes for a site that is MINE, i would consider and research everything youve said if i were designing a site for a company or for someone else, MY site is MY portfolio, it is not intended to cater to someone elses tastes, but it IS inteded to be built to cater to someone elses technical needs

i think you are confusing that

if i were designing for a company i most definately would be researching their base customers, their tastes, etc for the project, but like ive said multiple times that is completely different than technical needs

i dont know how to explain myself clearer

sorry


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## Jason (Nov 18, 2002)

oh and i wish to apologize to trip for side tracking his thread, like i said before i absolutely love the design from an artistic point, my only complain was a rather small one that turned into a big deal

im sorry


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## MacLuv (Nov 18, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 18, 2002)

well if there were standards i guess thats what i would be talking about 

technical specs i mean are, like what browser they are using, whats their capability for css, for java, for javascript, for dhtml, for flash etc. how many colors their monitor uses, the resolution of their monitor, the size of the window in which they browse the internet

where as i think you are talking about is more based around the tastes of the user, or how old or young the user is, or what ethnic background they come from, what their interests are etc etc

while both sets of user information are useful to know for a corporate site which markets to the masses or even to a specific group of people, a personal site, such as mine or trips is more about the creator than about the user, and IMO the only time the user comes into play is so that the user can manuever within the site with ease, other than that if they dont like it well they can leave, because its not for them  but this is just IMO i cannot speak for trip himself

and dont worry, its very hard to defend myself, im just trying to make clear the differences in what you and i are trying to say


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## Jason (Nov 18, 2002)

here is an oversimplified and possibly overexaggerated example 

magazine A could have good content, but designed average, and it is made with the same format as all magazines for the most part that is the binding on the left (for the states) and reads left to right, and has pages

magazine B has good content, and has an excelent design, but the magazine is layed out where the binding is on the botton and the text reads from bottom to top

this is the difference between "artistic" design, where the pictures are pretty etc but the object might not be functional and "functional" design where the pictures are nice, but the overall object functions well

another IMO the sites you listed (well at least the first 3 since i was lazy and just wanted click links) were examples of sites that are very artisticly designed, but their functionality is lacking IMO, the site designs were confusing, but they looked good, i had no clue where to go or what to do, but whatever i was doing i was looking at something pretty

but unfortunately, im one that doesnt stay at sites that confuse me, even if they are pretty, if their site functionality was better then i would love to be at the site...

its something to me has been lost in this day of flashy web design, the designers have lost touch with functionality, just because the designer knows how to navigate the site, or can see the important parts of a site, or can run the flash animations etc doesnt mean that the end user can...

anyways this is blowing things out of proportion, trips site is very functional besides my one little tiny pet peeve hehe, and it may just be my pet peeve and no one elses, who knows  but its functionality vs marketing what we are getting at (i think )

any clearer yet?  sorry if im so confusing


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## MacLuv (Nov 18, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 18, 2002)

well they may be boundry breakers in the world of functionality but if it makes it a chore for the user to figure out where to go, i think thats bad functionality IMO

as far as my audience

my audience is way too general for me to create something group specific, my audience includes, clients, general population, family, friends, anyone looking for digital artwork etc

i dont cater myself to certain clients over others on purpose, the style of my site might turn some on and some off, but really i dont have a specific enough audience (ive designed for anything from a carpet repair guy, to womens underwear advert) to really gear my site towards any certain group of people....

but as a default my site is geared towards those who are more interested in photography, just because my work ends up being photographic in nature unless uneeded...

so i suppose my site was marketed towards me in the end, which is what it is for, its mostly my personal portfolio... other than that its rather worthless hehe


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## Trip (Nov 18, 2002)

I must say...this is quite inspiring, really! I don't mind much that the thread has gone a bit off course, but i have learned quite a bit in the process so let's help eachother out a bit and try to help me figure out my target audience for my website. Where should we start?


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## MacLuv (Nov 18, 2002)




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## MacLuv (Nov 18, 2002)




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## Trip (Nov 18, 2002)

Keep the info coming!

I'm going to start thinking about a wide range of people that I can include in my list of "targets", and then work my way down to a few tiny more specific people and see if that helps. Quick note: I'm posting all of this because I'm thinking, again, of re-doing the site more professionaly.)

Another thing that goes along with the topic of target audiences, that I'm having trouble with is this: so let's say we're going to design cars. All cars all the time. For those big paying clients out there like Nissan and BMW. Now what? How can we design a website/portfolio that will attract the attention of design hunters from these kind of corporations? What do we need to include in the overall website design? What can we leave out?

Much help is greatly appricated from anybody and everybody! Everybody's input is very important here!


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## MacLuv (Nov 18, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 19, 2002)

trip the man speaks the truth for the most part, although he misunderstands my site 

my site isnt really an advertising or marketing piece as you would like to make it out to be trip

its very hard to find in the sea of other designers out there on the web, and i deal mostly with print anyways, so my website is a support tool for me to give a client who wants to see my portfolio quickly

you could and probably will say, "the more reason to market then!" but then i will tell you that if i made my portfolio with someone else in mind, i would be living a lie and as an artist thats something that shouldnt happen. so this is why my "marketing" is really superficial and general, because its not really marketed towards anyone because its not supposed to be 

no one will ever come across my site with the intention of looking for something, 95% of my hits on my site are from direct link, the others come from hits from links on forums, and like .01% come from search engines

anyways trip, i think your design of your site over all is a great one, and i admire it, i think you should stick with it really, just on the main  page get rid of the welcome window, or incorperate it into your news section and bring the news section up, the larger more horixontal box of the welcome section just seems to ruin flow, so i think incorperating it with the news section at the top would help, ive enjoyed your illustrations and only wish i could do the same 

i say complete this site and see where it goes, often as designers we forget that in order for our sites to be useful they have to be done hehe i think ive redesigned my site about 5 times in the last year, it was never the same or even "up" for more than a few weeks, ive decided with this last design to just keep it simple and to keep it "up" otherwise its embarrasing for a potential client to be linked to my site and see an "under construction" sign hehe, anyways i cant wait to redesign mine as well, i grow tired of it, and honestly i dont like parts of it, but im gritting my teeth and sticking with it for a while just so i can get it out there finally (ive gotten more hits in this month than i did with the previous 4 months combined)


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## MacLuv (Nov 19, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 19, 2002)

hey put your luv back in your pants and back away slowly!


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## Trip (Nov 19, 2002)

lol, Ok...

I've decided on a type of audience, which is: small business owners. I want to do logo/webpage/ad design for small businesses. Where do I go from here?

On the topic of my current website preview: I like it, I do...but is it the kind of "professional looking" thing that small business owners would like to visit when in need of an answer to their problem?


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## Jason (Nov 19, 2002)

hmmm, in my opinion then you could have two sites

you need something simple and professional looking IMO to attract small business owners looking for logos etc, one thing you need to make sure you have are logos in your portfolio, the rest follows

your current preview IMO is a great site for a personal portfolio, but im not sure how it is to attract customers, you know what i mean?

im not HUGE on the web so my opinion might be wrong, i deal i mostly print


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## Trip (Nov 19, 2002)

I see what you're saying, but I think I'm going to keep this subject open for a few more comments before I decide on what to do.


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## Jason (Nov 19, 2002)

of course, im not the end all, im just a small sardine in a giant can called earth


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## MacLuv (Nov 26, 2002)




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## Trip (Nov 27, 2002)

*I've updated the preview website, so go refresh it and tell me what you think. Also: now all of the links work with the exceptions of gallery pictures and the Theory section.*

WooHoo!


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## Jason (Nov 27, 2002)

lookin good trip!

i mean the site 

one little thing, would it be too difficult (or for that matter would it look good still) if there was a slight rollover transition on your links on the left? just to make them stand out a bit more when you go from link to link... just a thought  i love your work though, cant wait to see the whole gallery


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## Jason (Nov 27, 2002)

btw macluv

im not saying users WONT scroll, im saying they DONT WANT TO scroll hehe

which im assuming was the point of pointing me out to that god awful ugly article talking about design 

1997 though, what can ya say, the web was young and ugly back then


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## Trip (Nov 27, 2002)

Thanks for the reply BB! When you say rollovers...for tickets? What could I do?


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## MacLuv (Nov 27, 2002)




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## Jason (Nov 28, 2002)

i was thinking just a slight slight effect on the lettering of the ticket, nothing gaudy, but just something to tell you that you are on a link etc ya know? nothing that blows the user away, but just something that says "hi, im a link and you just rolled over me"  (i like subtlety)

just a thought though 

macluv, ah i see, yeah its amazing how ugly everything was, have you ever used the internet way back machine? its cool, cause it archives pages from forever ago, and some of them are just laughable lol


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## Trip (Nov 30, 2002)

*bump*


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## Da_iMac_Daddy (Nov 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BuddahBobb _
> *
> macluv, ah i see, yeah its amazing how ugly everything was, have you ever used the internet way back machine? its cool, cause it archives pages from forever ago, and some of them are just laughable lol
> 
> ...



archive.org


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## plastic (Dec 1, 2002)

I keep getting "connection was refused"... not happening to the other websites I visited... just yours... why why why why....

W H Y .....


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## Trip (Dec 1, 2002)

plastic: are you clicking on the links or typing them in manually? Spelling is key if you're typing them in. Other than that...I really don't know what the problem could be. I havn't "banned" anyone.


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## ChoMomma (Dec 5, 2002)

Plastic,

What is that thing you are using to charge your iBook?

***Never mind... I googled " Piaggio X9 " and I found it..  Cool Scooter  ***

Off topic sorry  just caught it in your sig.


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## KrinkleCut (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, I'm late to this discussion, but I won't let that stop me. 

As far as the 'to scroll or not to scroll, I have to side with BuddaBob. Think of a webpage as a magazine spread - do you want your viewer to look at only half of it and have to turn the page at some random point to see the rest? Of course not. It totally blows the integrity of the design. Sometimes I have to because clients insist, but I always recommend against it. And, if the page isn't in frames, you lose the navigation when you scroll down.

It would be nice to have some user feedback when mousing over the navigation too - since they don't look like square-box-insert-title-here navigation, it may take your users a while to find it. Maybe make them darken or lighten a bit when you mouse over.

Also, in your gallery, the bottom bar (with the copyright) isn't centered properly (I think anyway). Probably just needs to be moved over one column (I haven't checked the code though).


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## Da_iMac_Daddy (Dec 9, 2002)

Your popcorn looks like crumpled up peices of construction paper.....


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## Trip (Dec 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Da_iMac_Daddy _
> *Your popcorn looks like crumpled up peices of construction paper..... *



And 1 out of 10 people agree that if you catch them at just the right angle the do look like crumpled up peices of construction paper. I don't have a camera/scanner so i improvised and searched google for crumbled paper, colored it yellow-ish and voola!  Pretty nifty, eh?


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## Da_iMac_Daddy (Dec 10, 2002)

haha cool


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