# Switch campaign... real "actors"...



## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

FYI-- for all those who think I'm just here to "bash" Apple, I'm not--I just like putting things in perspective. One of the things that's talked alot about in this place are the switch ads, and if you've read my posts you know I hate them... like others in here I don't think they're very effective.

Something that bugs me about Apple is they're always using sneaky ways to advertise their products. The new switch campaigns feature real stories, for example,_but not real people._ All you Ellen fans will be dissapointed to know that your Apple babe is a talented young actor...

I'm only mentioning this because a lot of people in here seem to think these people are real--and of course, that's the whole point. You're not going to be able to tell these people from your regular ad folks--they've been instructed to be as real as possible. I heard that during casting they found actors with "as little experience" as possible to give it that "real" edge.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Aug 12, 2002)

http://homepage.mac.com/adamsa/

Aaron Adams, Windows LAN Administrator

Switcher Guy

REAL PERSON

Plus, he just redid his site, where it used to be an explination that the commercials were real.


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## serpicolugnut (Aug 12, 2002)

How this for perspective?

Several friends of mine, all PC users, who have seen a couple of the ads, are now very interested in Apple. The ads drove them to the local mall to check out the new Apple store. The store showed them the advantages of Macs first hand. Two of those friends bought Macs. A third, bought a Dell. He hasn't even taken delivery of the damn thing yet and he's already second guessing his choice.

Seems to be working quite well, but I guess we'll have to wait for the stats to come through in a couple of months to see for sure.


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlingBling 3k12 _
> *http://homepage.mac.com/adamsa/
> 
> Aaron Adams, Windows LAN Administrator
> ...



Where's the actual proof that Aaron is a real person? Do you have his birth certificate?

I'll prove it to you. Email Aaron and ask him for a copy of his resume. If he sends it to you, contact some of the places he's worked for and ask them to describe Aaron--specifically how much Aaron _weighs_. 

BTW, if you examine all the real-world stories, they're all a little "too perfect"... 





> Over the months, more and more software became available for X. I learned quite a bit about Unix. Never once did my iBook crash. Never once was any of my data corrupted by an errant application or system failure. Never once was there a catastrophic event of some kind that forced me to reinstall my OS. Every update worked perfectly, and X got better and better with every release, especially 10.1.



If you think that's just "jazzed" up by the Apple people, think again. It was entirely constructed by the ad agency. Really, if you can't tell that this is all just a bunch of hyperbole disguised as reality, then there may be no hope.


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## uoba (Aug 12, 2002)

Jeezuz get over it pezagent... think back to the heady days of XP commercials, remember, we could all fly if we used it!   (Yeah, straight to the nearest Apple Store!)

How often do you drink Coca-cola, and they claim it'll improve your life no end. Welcome to the world of marketing, I'm surprised you hadn't noticed it earlier.

And as for actor claims... it takes a good one to act like an authetic everyday person... the bad ones r-e-a-d t-h-e-i-r- l-i-n-e-s like that!


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

Perhaps an explanation is in order...

Advertising 101

Let's say you come up with the idea for the Switch campaign. Your basic need is to find a bunch of stories about real people who switched to Mac, then put them in a television ad, right? Seems pretty simple. Oh, but wait a minute. We need to diversify those stories across the board, so they appeal to certain age groups and ethnic backgrounds. Ok, no problem, right?

Apple wants us to believe that their creative team went out and found a diverse group of people across America that could write real stories about themselves, sit in front of a television commercial and tell their story. Not only that, but these people would be willing to become .Mac users, and post their stories on-line for everyone to see, be politically correct at all times, and never say a bad thing about Apple again.

It was one thing when Subway found Jarrod. That's one guy--and he found them. Apple's case is a different story--they had to "reverse engineer" their case studies. I don't know if people here know how much time and effort goes into an ad campaign, but it's an f-load. If you think for one moment that Apple waited around until it got "just the right" people for this campaign, you're definately an advertisers wet-dream, because you believe everything you see and hear. The fact is, Apple only claims these are real stories. Just like actors on TV, they don't have to tell you that these people are only portraying real people unless somebody really kicks up a fuss.

When I first started in television a long time ago, my boss, a director, pitched this idea to Fox television... his idea was to have a game show host dress up like a clown and really give it to the contestants on a daily basis. (I didn't say he was a good director) Anyway, the Fox executive vetoed the idea... only becuase he knew that for a game show host to stay in character to tape five shows a day would be murder. This leads me to an important giveaway that the Switch campaign is a fake... if these were "real people", what guarantee would Apple have for these people to stick around and love Apple for the rest of their lives? Answer: They wouldn't. The golden rule here is that the company, Apple, has to maintain control over what these people say and do, and it would be impossible to find so many people over so many ethnic backgrounds to stay in "loyal" character. If Apple had just shot some real people that would have been fine, but to post these elaborate stories and then have these people post BLOGS and such... it's just too over the top. It reminds me of a kind of music industry promotion, where you hear rumors of artists doing stupid things right before their new album comes out. 

I hope this sheds some light on reality for some people.


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## uoba (Aug 12, 2002)

As I said, we all pretty much know how marketing and advertising works... what baffles me is that you have the time to rant about something that you don't like.

Wrong, side and bed are three words that come to mind.

As people on this board have stated, Apple quite often get their marketing wrong, and this perhaps isn't the first time. 

But there's no real need to get upset about something that every company does everyday of the year, not just your hated Apple.


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *Jeezuz get over it pezagent... think back to the heady days of XP commercials, remember, we could all fly if we used it!   (Yeah, straight to the nearest Apple Store!)
> 
> How often do you drink Coca-cola, and they claim it'll improve your life no end. Welcome to the world of marketing, I'm surprised you hadn't noticed it earlier.
> ...



Hey, well check out this "BLOG" that's on one of the sites:


> _
> Yet another user comes to his senses
> 
> I was just in a gentleman's office fixing his Groupwise hang problem and upadting his Novell client. We talked about what was causing his troubles here at work, and he told me he had a Pentium III at home. He said, "I'm tired of what I have to go through to keep that thing working all the time. I'm considering getting a Mac." He has no clue that I do any advertising for Apple. Of course, I told him to go ahead and get one, and I mentioned the 17" iMac that should be arriving at my door any time now.
> ...



I've had the unfortunate opportunity to work on a Phillip Morris before (sorry, I needed the money) and I learned a great deal about how crafty ad agencies can be when the need to "bend" the world to their favor--it took a long time for people to blow the whistle on the "stop smoking" ads for kids which actually made kids want to smoke more, according to one article I read in not so many words. But of course, ad agencies aren't dumb, and they knew that would happen all along, the whole thing made me toss my cookies. I guess this Apple Switch campaign is really buggin' me out because it's just as underhanded. Every other entry "Aaron" puts in his Blog is a plug for Apple products (the iPod) or like the one above, about how people just suddenly start talking about switching computers. Somehow I don't think we'll ever see "I just broke up with my girl" or "Sh*t I just paid for my first hooker" entries in Aaron's BLOG... unless of course, Apple gets wind that people are getting soopy at which point a carefully placed tragedy or something like his grandmother dying will excuse him from further responsiblity to posting on his Blog. 

(man, i think too much)


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *As I said, we all pretty much know how marketing and advertising works... what baffles me is that you have the time to rant about something that you don't like.
> 
> Wrong, side and bed are three words that come to mind.
> ...



Well, I'm 32, retired, and living in New Zealand, and haven't figured out what the hell I should do with the rest of my life. This Apple stuff bugs me from time to time so I come here to let it all out. As far as hating Apple, it's like this--you always hurt the ones you love...


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by serpicolugnut _
> *How this for perspective?
> 
> Several friends of mine, all PC users, who have seen a couple of the ads, are now very interested in Apple. The ads drove them to the local mall to check out the new Apple store. The store showed them the advantages of Macs first hand. Two of those friends bought Macs. A third, bought a Dell. He hasn't even taken delivery of the damn thing yet and he's already second guessing his choice.
> ...



He's second-guessing his choice because of delivery times? When the Apple store first opened up a million years ago and I bought a 9600 from them, it took them forever to deliver it to me. Then the damn thing had a used mouse in it! Apple didn't do anything until I bitched on Macintouch. A used mouse... couldn't believe it.

Oh sorry, um, let me switch to a more positive response... cool, man, bitchin! Go Mac! Kick Wintel's ass! Yeah!


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## uoba (Aug 12, 2002)

Yeah yeah, guerilla marketing and all that, subliminal messaging  as well.

I must admit, the homepage.mac.com job doesn't convince me, but I really don't care about Apple's marketing, mainly because it has been inherantly bad for years. And the switch ads are another half-hearted attempt in my opinion.

The 1984 ad is the only ad I have ever liked from them. 

OSX, a great system, but how many tv ad's have you actually seen it on!?
Anyway, I'm gonna start sounding like you pezagent


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## uoba (Aug 12, 2002)

32 and retired, and your moaning so much... people don't know when life is sweet


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *32 and retired, and your moaning so much... people don't know when life is sweet *



LOL... yeah, well, it's not as sweet as you might think... people need stuff to do, ya know? You think when you get your ducks in a row that the sunset is somehow more beautiful, but I'm too young to be sittin' around with nuthin' to do all day. My wife wants to travel and we're thinkin' about movin' back to the States but heck I have no idea... my father-in-law had this problem when he sold his first business so within two weeks he started another company. Ug.

Anyway, thanks for listening. It's nice to type it out with complete strangers sometimes...


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by uoba _
> *The 1984 ad is the only ad I have ever liked from them.
> 
> OSX, a great system, but how many tv ad's have you actually seen it on!?
> ...



Ridley Scott rules!!! He's one of my classic fav directors, when Blade Runner was released on video, I got the VHS, Beta, and 8MM (!) copies. It's funny you should mention that commercial, because I was just thinking how Mac seems to be still stuck back there in 1984 in some ways... like thinking the very people they helped get into computers are idiots or something. It's like a parent not willing to accept that thier children got a better education than they did... 

Speaking of parenting and way off-topic, I suspect that's a picture of your newborn? My wife's a childcare specialist, she loves kids, and both my sister AND sister-in-law are due in November. Congrats! (Of course, if it's just a picture of a baby, disregard this whole thing...)


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## uoba (Aug 12, 2002)

Yep, you're right, it's Tomás, now 5 weeks old (and nearly 6kg!!)  Cheers 

He had a few words for you, but I better not print them   


As for retirement, I know how you feel, I occassionally get a weekend off and am clueless to what I should do with myself (Tomás solved that one! )


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## RyanLang (Aug 12, 2002)

You are wrong about the switchers being actors. Aaron Adams is in the  "yourmaclife" chatroom every wednesday night during Shawn King's fantastic Your Mac Life internet radio show (www.yourmaclife.com) If you look in the archives, you can hear the shows that contained interviews from some of the switchers. Aaron was one of them, and you will recognize his voice as soon as the interview starts. And yes, it's live. Shawn King and the gang from YML all went to MacWorld NY this year and Aaron was among their crew this year. Look at the pictures, and you will see that they are hanging out with the guy from the commercial. Why? Well because that IS Aaron Adams! Hopefully this proves it for you, but if you need more proof you can go to apple.com and watch the keynote over again where you can see Ellen and Hamilton sitting together in the audience before the show starts (they are for some reason playing cats cradle, that weird little string tangled up in ones hands thingy). And what do you know, they are the same people from the commercial! ASTONISHING! Well, if this doesn't settle you down and convince you you could always go to yourmaclife.com on a wednesday night, tune into the show, come to the irc chat and as Aaron Adams himself!  --Ryan


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## pezagent (Aug 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyanLang _
> *You are wrong about the switchers being actors. Aaron Adams is in the  "yourmaclife" chatroom every wednesday night during Shawn King's fantastic Your Mac Life internet radio show (www.yourmaclife.com) If you look in the archives, you can hear the shows that contained interviews from some of the switchers. Aaron was one of them, and you will recognize his voice as soon as the interview starts. And yes, it's live. Shawn King and the gang from YML all went to MacWorld NY this year and Aaron was among their crew this year. Look at the pictures, and you will see that they are hanging out with the guy from the commercial. Why? Well because that IS Aaron Adams! Hopefully this proves it for you, but if you need more proof you can go to apple.com and watch the keynote over again where you can see Ellen and Hamilton sitting together in the audience before the show starts (they are for some reason playing cats cradle, that weird little string tangled up in ones hands thingy). And what do you know, they are the same people from the commercial! ASTONISHING! Well, if this doesn't settle you down and convince you you could always go to yourmaclife.com on a wednesday night, tune into the show, come to the irc chat and as Aaron Adams himself!  --Ryan *



OK, so like, these people couldn't possibly be actors because why? They show up at MacWorld? 

You ever see mascots at a basketball game?

The fact that you were able to notice these people playing "cats cradle" or whtever is a great touch, don't you think? I'm not saying that these actors aren't real or that they're not exhibiting their personalities, but please, wake up and smell the reality here.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Aug 12, 2002)

Hey pezagent, not everything is a conspiracy you know... just because you have an agression with Apple doesn't mean you can just come over and say that everything Apple does is fake, their switchers campaign is fake, everything we've ever been taught is a lie, everything that we know does not conform to the thoughts of one retired 32 year old that obviously has too much time on his hands, but just enough to rant about how Apple is just a big conspiracy and piss off people like me (a PC user who has never had a Mac until last Thursday, and switched due to a major part that I was pissed off at the way Windows DIDN'T work)

You know, maybe it is fake, but then why would they have asked Mac users to voluntarily send in their switch stories months ago? You don't think they could have pulled out 8 or so stories, got people to come in and speak about it?

Yes, Ellen Feiss does make the ad's look pretty stupid, considering her IQ is probably lower than mine, which btw, is pretty damn high. 

Now, If I was on the switchers campaign... you probably wouldn't believe it, even if I was right in front of you, telling you that, had a birth certificate in my hand, a resume in the other, and a website with a blog about how I love Apple so much... you probably wouldn't... and that's fine, but damn man, don't think everything on television or everything that a company does is fake. Yes, I know alot of stuff on TV is fake, and I know alot of companies do some really bad crappy advertising spots.

Hell, I love Apple, and I wouldn't mind trying to convince people to buy their products! I've already sold my neighbor and a friend on getting new iMacs, way before I even got one!

I also see you're still a Mac (L)User, but all I see you do is rant about how you hate Apple!

Honestly, there's just too much crap for me to go through right now to make a justified answer to everything on here... this is just the tip of the iceberg and when I get the time (after I persue the rest of my daily life, instead of wondering what the hell to do with it because I retired alot earlier than everyone but still am perplexed on what to do)

I'll see you after I get done having fun... not just sitting around thinking about what I can possibly rant on about because I didn't like my experience with Apple products...

And by the way, if you don't like their products or the experience you got from them, why the hell do you come here to throw off your agression... move on and don't come here just to feel better about yourself. Don't use them if you don't like them! It's obvious you don't like an aspect of it...


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## edX (Aug 12, 2002)

is it obvious that Casey's ibook didn't arrive today?  

i think we need to start a 'work off your frustrations' forum and throw pezagent and BB into the first thread.  

(hopefully it will show tomorrow Casey  )


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## RyanLang (Aug 12, 2002)

You are all wrong. The switchers are real weather you care to agree or not. If you want proof you should simply watch Shawn King's coverage of Macworld New York. Not only does this video take you inside Steve's unveiling of the SoHo Store (where you see many celebrities of the mac geek world!) but it also will give you proof of the fact that the switchers are indeed real (you'll see shawn and aaron hanging out a lot since he went on the trip with the whole yourmaclife gang.)  Here is the link, enjoy

http://www.yourmaclife.com/subpages/qt/YMLX072902s.mov

-Ryan


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## pezagent (Aug 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlingBling 3k12 _
> *You don't think they could have pulled out 8 or so stories, got people to come in and speak about it?
> *


*

Okay, I'll have to pull rank here. 

I know from experience there's no way in hell Apple could have put together such a diversified group in a short period of time. I've tried my best to explain it in laymans terms, but if you're not understanding me, that's not my problem.

As far as you going so far as to suggest "conspiracy theory"-- whatever. On the flip side, if you want to see the world through a pair of rose-colored glasses that's fine--but don't tout me as Mr. Negative becuase I can spot a rat ad campaign.

I'm simply stating my disgust with how far advertising goes to pull the wool over your eyes.

I brought this whole topic up as a kind of eye-opener, becuase I'm sick of Apple really sticking their advertising where it doesn't belong--within one's trust and faith. That, to me, is really insulting my intelligence and hitting below the belt.

It really makes me laugh, actually. I'll tell you what. Put an ad in the paper looking for people who have switched recently. Then set  up a screening process for all the people who responded. Out of all the people who responded, find the EXACT perfect story and match it to the EXACT ethnic background--and then, you'll have to screen their personalities, do a background check etc, etc, because you wouldn't want them doing anything that looked bad. The fact that these people are wallflowers shouldn't surprise you--they were designed that way.

With all do respect, stop taking this too seriously... Apple wants you to give into their religion, and it seems to be working...

*


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## pezagent (Aug 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *is it obvious that Casey's ibook didn't arrive today?
> 
> i think we need to start a 'work off your frustrations' forum and throw pezagent and BB into the first thread.
> ...



Hey this is like, safe venting... if you don't like my posts, don't read them. I would expect most people to have an open mind and just scan over this stuff like I do... if you take it too personally... 

Besides, don't worry about it... I vent for a little while then I dissapear once I've worked out all the kinks... dig? Obviously this stuff is bugging me and I'm tryin' to work it out. _That's how I learn about things..._ 

It's about time those italics worked right...


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## azosx (Aug 13, 2002)

I hate the switch ads.  They are very condescending, rude and obnoxious.  Especially towards their target audiance, PC users.

Most of the "real people" look like puppets on a string.  Are they reading off cue cards?  What's with the mechanical arm jestures and smug expressions?  It's literally uncomfortable for me to watch them.

They may very well be "real people" but they certainly seem as if they are being coached and what's the deal with their latest monkey on a string, Ellen Feiss.  Is this Apple's attempt to appeal to their stoneresque user base?  She doesn't even say she uses a Mac for christ sakes.

Have comedians do your ads Apple.  Will Ferrell is a lot more entertaining than Sarah "pig-vomit" Whistler.

I've always felt most Mac users lacked the ability to communicate outside their little clique and I think the switch campaign proves this theory.  Apple is trying to sell Macs to PC users and at the same time insult them.  How f*cking stupid is that?  Pure irony.

I can't wait to see Apple's Q3 and Q4 earnings.  It's not the same game as when they released the original iMac.  It's a lot more competitive and PCs are a hell of a lot more inexpensive.  It's going to take more than a new iMac and some asinine ad campaign to save them this time around.  

How about some real speed and reasonable prices Apple?  If you want to be a niche market, keep up the good work.  If you want to play with the big boys, you're going to have to change your act completely.


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## Koelling (Aug 13, 2002)

As much as I think they are actors, I don't think it matters. They are trying to sell computers and that's that. Personally I don't care how they do it, but they are a corporation in capitalist America so that's what they do. But also I need to comment on the irony of this comment:





> That, to me, is really insulting my intelligence and hitting below the belt.


 These commercials are not aimed at you. Why? because you have an above average intelligence. Well, I don't know that for sure, but you seem intelligent and based on recent poll results, Mac users are smarter. These "Switch" ads are aimed at PC users and therefore are aimed at below average intelligence people. 

That's another thing about marketing. You find a large geographic and aim commercials at it. Apple's geographic right now is stupid people. Coincidentally, you are neither stupid nor a PC user so leave it well enough alone.

P.S. If you are a PC user, sorry for the low blow there about the intelligence thing. Not ALL PC users are dumb. Some of them use *NIX. Windows users are _all_ stupid.


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## edX (Aug 13, 2002)

> ... if you don't like my posts, don't read them



here's a news flash - i moderate this forum and therfore *must* read every post you make here. It is listening to the same whine over and over again that grates on my nerves. I can't stop you. i wouldn't stop you out of principle. but it really is tiring to read  the same argument over and over.

truth is something you recognise the first time you hear it. so why go around repeating yourself? post a comment once and then let others find it. no need to spout the same spew in every thread on the site.

btw - pezagent meet azosx. you guys should become best buddies in no time.  

(frankly i'm at the point that i never want to see another thread about processor speeds again. my machine is way slower than any of the whiners and i think it works well enough. i don't need a computer that runs at the speed of light. so this thread is at least comical relief for me  )


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## uoba (Aug 13, 2002)

Same here, I am extremely happy running a busy design company ona G4 400, with absolutely no probs 

Okay, I'll upgrade maybe soon, but, there's no reason to be a speed demon... it's not the size and how fast you use it, it's the way you use it and how good it feels that counts


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## azosx (Aug 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ed Spruiell _
> *(frankly i'm at the point that i never want to see another thread about processor speeds again. my machine is way slower than any of the whiners and i think it works well enough. i don't need a computer that runs at the speed of light. so this thread is at least comical relief for me  ) *



You have  G3 iMac correct?  I've used them at school, horrid little beasts.  What's comical to me is that your iMac is probably a bear to use today so you likely run older apps and punish yourself just to be loyal to Apple.  

Give me a break.  At least with a PC you could have upgraded that processor among other things.  

It is however a testament to Apple and whatever they may be doing right that their user base is so loyal but at the same time, it seriously makes me question the overall intelligence of their users.  

Pound for pound, in todays market, especially after the release of the new PowerMacs, Macs are an overall poor investment compared to the competition.  Especially for people who don't have much money to spend.


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## uoba (Aug 13, 2002)

On the  contrary, OSX makes Macs a good investment. Case closed.


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## BlingBling 3k12 (Aug 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *
> 
> You have  G3 iMac correct?  I've used them at school, horrid little beasts.  What's comical to me is that your iMac is probably a bear to use today so you likely run older apps and punish yourself just to be loyal to Apple.
> ...


I have a 125MHz PowerMac 7600 sitting not 10 feet away from me, and ya know what, it's not a speedy bastard, but it does what it does and it gets it done pretty nicely. I only turn it on from time to time, but when I get on, it works nicely. IE, LimeWire, QuickTime, and a few other apps at the same time...

We all don't have to have super powerful machines....

I've got a 350MHz HP Pavilion downstairs... yes, it can't run the latest Photoshop very fast, but for what it gets used for, it's a speedy machine.

I've also got this 866MHz Pentium 3 Dell that I'm typing on right now. It's slow, I'll admit. Mostly because of Windows hogging half of my damn resources... When you start launching my apps, Photoshop 7, Premiere 6, Dreamweaver, etc. then it gets slow... but it's bearable, and I can get all my work done on here. It's been a good system the past year and a half. Yeah... I bought it new and now it's a junker... whodathunkit!

We don't all have to have the best and baddest systems to get work done... If it works, don't fix it...

And you want a break? How about a break from my kit-kat bar? You can have the rest...


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## MDLarson (Aug 13, 2002)

I have a friend who is looking at buying a new laptop.  He told me about it, and he is very biased against Macs in a very typical way - ignorance.  Anyway, I says to him "Well, if you're intrested in a Mac, check out the iBook."  He laughs and says "You can't use Macs for anything except bashing!"  Typical conversation, of course.  But then he says *"Actually, everybody is telling me to get a Mac."* I suggested going in to CompUSA or the Apple Store in the Mall Of America to get a hands-on experience with the new machines / OS X.

If you ask me, the commercials are striking a chord with PC users out there.  I don't know if he's seen any, but I still believe it.


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## deagle five o (Aug 13, 2002)

Ellen Feiss hot?
wtf are you people on?


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## edX (Aug 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by azosx _
> *
> 
> You have  G3 iMac correct?  I've used them at school, horrid little beasts.  What's comical to me is that your iMac is probably a bear to use today so you likely run older apps and punish yourself just to be loyal to Apple.  *


*

i can see how you would percieve it this way. but i find my daily computing experience to be quite pleasurable. i don't waste my time worrying about half second delays. i've got to stop and sip my coffee from time to time anyway. And all the apps i use regularly are completely up to date and work great. i don't use any 'professional' software so i have no need for a computer that competes in drag races.



			Give me a break.  At least with a PC you could have upgraded that processor among other things. 

Click to expand...


i'm not a computer mechanic and wouldn't spend all my time replacing parts anyway. i also have access to a 600 mhz imac and frankly, i don't find the difference in performance to be so great that i feel like i'm missing anything. not everyone wants to be the coolest geek in town. i just want a computer that works for me so that i have time to do the other things in life that are my real interests. my mac is a tool for some of those interests. and it does the job i intened it for.



			It is however a testament to Apple and whatever they may be doing right that their user base is so loyal but at the same time, it seriously makes me question the overall intelligence of their users.  

Pound for pound, in todays market, especially after the release of the new PowerMacs, Macs are an overall poor investment compared to the competition.  Especially for people who don't have much money to spend.
		
Click to expand...

*
those of us who don't have much money to spend are not power mac consumers to start with.  we could care less. i for one would much rather see apple expand its consumer user base rather than cater to a handful of super geeks who will never be satisfied untill their computer responds instantly to their thought patterns through an electrode input device.

sign me 'happy with my old imac', simply because it works well with os x with a minimum amount of investment in some additional ram back when the prices were at rock bottom (about $60 for the two 256 sticks i have now  )

just because i don't drive the lastest sports car version of a mac doesn't mean i'm not satisfied with my mac experience. It's just so much more than whose is bigger and faster and more popular.


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## fryke (Aug 15, 2002)

just thinking aloud... there are the professionals (graphics designers, developers etc.) who buy the most expensive Apple hardware, because they need it. they also have the money for it, as the price of a PowerMac is really only a part of a bigger equation here. for example, PEOPLE cost that money every month instead of once in a year. those people _should_ get better and better high end Apple Macintosh computers.

then there are the gamers. i don't quite understand why they don't just buy a cheap PC which can share the same monitor, because games ARE better on the PC and there are more of them. it's also easier (and cheaper) to upgrade a PC with a new processor (and overclock it) or a graphics card. the mac gamers won't EVER be content with new PowerMacs because a) they're not professionals who pay big money for their computers and b) because the PC is simply the better platform for playing games right now.

but there _are_ several more interest groups in Apple's segments. there are lawyers (making money, aren't they) who want a TiBook because of the style. there are teachers who like the iMacs and eMacs as well as the iBooks. there are musicians who - depending on the money they're making - are very content with the Mac their money _can_ buy.

if you know your mac, you can make an older iMac a very, very good machine for your everyday tasks, if they don't include video editing or high end publishing, of course. (or game play, for that matter...)


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## bogd (Aug 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fryke _
> *... there are musicians who - depending on the money they're making - are very content with the Mac their money _can_ buy... *



I was watching something on MTV and one of the band mates from No Doubt pulled an iBook and iPod out of his bag and he showed it off. Good stuff


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## fab5freddy (Aug 16, 2002)

If you guys really cared about Apple, you'd spend less time drooling over iCrap and realize they're 9 out of 12.

Actors, actors, actors, actors, actors.

Why did I start this thread? Because Apple needs actors to help people make the switch. 

If you think that's a neccessary evil of some sort, maybe you need to go back to why we started using Apple in the first place.

Did you need an actor back in 1984 to tell you that Apple was something different?

Are you following my point?

If all Apple's got left up its sleeve is a bunch of paid actors touting how Apple is cute and cuddly then this company is in real trouble.

And if there's one thing I've learned in all my years, it's that the BS starts from the top.

And unfortunately, Steve is at the top. And personally, I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of fighting his holy war.

So, if Admin can grow up and accept other people's opinions and doesn't ban me, I'd really like to have a half-decent conversation about the reality of Apple frickin' computer. No homogenization, no sugar-coating, no cheerleading, just tough love and answers. 

So, who's up for the Pepsi challenge? Anybody?


PAiD (PezAgent in Disguise)


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## MDLarson (Aug 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by fab5freddy _
> *Why did I start this thread? Because Apple needs actors to help people make the switch.
> 
> If you think that's a neccessary evil of some sort, maybe you need to go back to why we started using Apple in the first place.*


I think you're right.  Apple _does_ need actors to help people "make the switch" (buy their products).  But if you watch any TV, most TV endorsements employ actors and actresses to tout a company's product.

Dell employs Ben Curtis, Gap has Willie Nelson & Ryan Adams, and Proctor & Gamble have Mr. Clean.

So what exactly is your problem, fab5freedy?

Even if Aaron Adams was just a made up fake, you still don't have much of a point to make.


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## dave17lax (Aug 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by deagle five o _
> *Ellen Feiss hot?
> wtf are you people on? *



Agreed.


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