# Developer's Kit (intel Mac) information (merged thread)



## nietzsche2131 (Jun 22, 2005)

Check out think secret 

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html

It's really interesting, because the intel cds don't boot on other pc configs. It only recgonizes the developer's hardware. Also windows xp dual boots just fine. 
Just check out and give me your thoughts! 

Peace!


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## mlunapiena01 (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html

Enjoy.


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## chadwick (Jun 22, 2005)

Seems accurate


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## fjdouse (Jun 22, 2005)

My thoughts are mixed... sad to see an Apple PC, but resigned to the inevitable.. and of course, this kit is no indication of Intel Macs.


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## Pippin (Jun 22, 2005)

the xp screen just looks like virtual pc set to 800x600 and the box could just be one of these fellows who happing to get a g5 case and gut it. I have trouble believing things from thinksecret however ...it could also be true. :S


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## fjdouse (Jun 22, 2005)

It IS true, nothing to believe, but it's just a dev kit.


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## fryke (Jun 22, 2005)

Alreadyy merged. No problem.


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## nietzsche2131 (Jun 22, 2005)

Dang it, fryke, your quick, I saw your blog. Hmm... But i agree with your ponit about darwin, and putting hardware in that matches the dev kit to get os x running on "any pc" .


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## fryke (Jun 22, 2005)

I guess I'd actually _love_ to do that myself. Add a graphics card to the devkit to see whether generic drivers for Radeon cards are present, for example. You could basically try every component (besides the mobo, of course) in the devkit. And vice versa. Hmm... I'm waiting for the reports of what's there regarding drivers. Are printers supported? Etc., etc. ...


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## chadwick (Jun 22, 2005)

All I can say right now is that I am really unhappy with my PowerBook G4... I think it's time for it to go on eBay...


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## CreativeEye (Jun 22, 2005)

the form factor of the new powermacs / intemacs (whatever you want to call them!) is going to be totally different to the current G5 towers - in the pictures those kits take up so little room in the G5 casing that if the boards (and lack of liquid cooling / fans) inside the new machines are similar then apple can build physically smaller macs.

my G5 is HUGE compared to my G4 (and my pc tower)! - which is similar in size to my 6400...

if the new intel chips mean less heat, less power consumption etc - then i think its pretty exciting to think about what the new mac line-up will actually look like by the end of next year!


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## RGrphc2 (Jun 22, 2005)

okay, i'm kinda happy about this turn of events, the ability to install windows on a partition anyway.  It maybe possible to do run Half-Life and it's mods on the mac now.       

Has anyone here gotten a Dev kit and tried a processor hunger application like Adobe CS 2 using Rosetta??

Does this mean i can have3 OSes on 1 box.  Mac OS X for Me, Ubuntu Linux for Me (again) and Windoze for my girlfriend...gonna need a bigger hard drive.


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## fjdouse (Jun 22, 2005)

RGrphc2 said:
			
		

> Does this mean i can have3 OSes on 1 box.  Mac OS X for Me, Ubuntu Linux for Me (again) and Windoze for my girlfriend...gonna need a bigger hard drive.



It means you can't read anything into this. It's only a dev kit.


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## RGrphc2 (Jun 22, 2005)

one can hope


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## fryke (Jun 23, 2005)

Well: It should obviously be possible. Apple said they won't hinder us from installing Windows. Linux _always_ finds a way onto a harddrive...


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## intelDev (Jun 23, 2005)

fjdouse said:
			
		

> It means you can't read anything into this. It's only a dev kit.



I concur. I received mine today, and its great to fiddle with and  work on software with, but you cant read much into non-Mac OS X related things (like installing windows, using different graphics cards, etc)


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## intelDev (Jun 23, 2005)

Just for those of you who are curious, I thought I would give a little more info on the  specs, tho remember to not read much into them (tho you can tell apple is planning on moving to PCI-Express from it).

3.6 GHz Intel Pentium 4 w/2 MB L2 Cache
800MHz Front-side bus
1 GB, 533MHz DDR2 Dual Channel SDRAM
4 DIMM slots (2 occupied)
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 (GMA 900)

Two PCI Slots (33 MHz, 32-bit)
1 16X PCI-Express (Graphics occupied by DVI-D via ADD2 Card)
1 1X PCI-Express

4 total SATA connectors (2 wired up)
160GB/7200rpm SATA
16x DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW

front:
Headphone Jack
Power Button
One USB 2.0 Port
One FireWire 400 Port
A micro switch mounted next to the power switch, can be activated by a paperclip. Unknown function. 

rear:
Two USB 2.0 Ports
Gigabit Ethernet
One FireWire 400 Port


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## HomunQlus (Jun 23, 2005)

I'm not so impressed.... The tower is a Powermac tower all right, but the inside looks just.........let's say, unusual. Have seen other pics of the dev kit before, wasn't too impressed either.


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## fryke (Jun 23, 2005)

Nobody, I think, expected that the devkit would be an impressive look at the inside...?


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## nixgeek (Jun 23, 2005)

I saw the pics of the devkit and I couldn't help but recall that "hoax" of the PC motherboard in a G5 case. Could it have been signs of what's happening now??  Who knows....


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## MacFreak (Jun 23, 2005)

Dont concerning about devkit's hardwares. Right now Apple's goal to foucs on softwares to adjusting to make it work with hardwares such as ethernet, pci, rams, and processor. Once MacOS X is ready then Apple will releasing new hardwares that will go beyond our belief.


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## fjdouse (Jun 23, 2005)

MacFreak said:
			
		

> Dont concerning about devkit's hardwares. Right now Apple's goal to foucs on softwares to adjusting to make it work with hardwares such as ethernet, pci, rams, and processor. Once MacOS X is ready then Apple will releasing new hardwares that will go beyond our belief.


focus   
You're right of course and quite the optimist


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## nietzsche2131 (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey IntelDev, I was wondering what comes along with the dev kit??? Just Curious, besides the computer, is there a contact saying you HAVE to give back this computer at the end of 2006?? Also, keyboard, mouse?? I'm just curious because a 1000 bucks is a good chuck of change. Also manauls what other things is there besides the computer?? There has to be more then just an install cd/dvd and a computer. What about updates do you get those from the software updater or adc website? Thanks for your time


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## Captain Code (Jun 24, 2005)

It may seem like a lot for the dev kit but when you think about the companies that would actually use them it's not really that much.  1 grand is pretty cheap even for my dad who is a residential mechanical contractor.


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## Stridder44 (Jun 24, 2005)

1 grand for all that? Hell if that's all it costs (even if it is a dev. kit) than that must mean the next Macs'll be cheaper. I mean of course Apple could of lowered the price just for the sake of trying to get the hardware to devs. but Im sure it shows signs of lower prices to come!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jun 24, 2005)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> 1 grand for all that? Hell if that's all it costs (even if it is a dev. kit) than that must mean the next Macs'll be cheaper. I mean of course Apple could of lowered the price just for the sake of trying to get the hardware to devs. but Im sure it shows signs of lower prices to come!



I seriously doubt that we can garner anything about future Mac prices from the price of a developer's kit.

First of all, $1000 gets you a *lease* machine that must be returned to Apple on a specified date in 2006.  You do not get to keep the machine nor anything that came with it.

Second of all, we do not know yet which processor will be used in the new Intel Macs.  It will be a commercially available processor (not a custom processor specifically for Apple) and we have no clue how much Apple is paying for them.

To be sure that $1,000 to lease a developer machine means lower prices on future Intel-based Macintosh computers is not a wise conclusion.


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## fjdouse (Jun 24, 2005)

Absolutely, which is why I said you can't read ANYTHING into this. It's only a dev kit for a specific purpose with a very short lifespan.

(Although I am wondering how many are being made available and how they will be disposed of after, destruction seems like a terrible waste of resources. Apple have been accused of not being exactly environmentally friendly.)


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## Lt Major Burns (Jun 24, 2005)

to be the 3 year old on christmas day....


What's the box like?


is it brown? is it a standard g5 box? (if so, have they tipp-ex-ed out the 64-bit desktop computer bit? ) does it say MACTEL (for the people who actually want to adopt that name)? i've always liked apple boxes... sexier than most rivals actual products....


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## chadwick (Jun 24, 2005)

lol

big brown box, still says power mac


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## Qion (Jun 24, 2005)

nietzsche2131 said:
			
		

> Hey IntelDev, I was wondering what comes along with the dev kit??? Just Curious, besides the computer, is there a contact saying you HAVE to give back this computer at the end of 2006?? Also, keyboard, mouse?? I'm just curious because a 1000 bucks is a good chuck of change. Also manauls what other things is there besides the computer?? There has to be more then just an install cd/dvd and a computer. What about updates do you get those from the software updater or adc website? Thanks for your time


 
Thought this sort of got drowned out.


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## intelDev (Jun 24, 2005)

nietzsche2131 said:
			
		

> Hey IntelDev, I was wondering what comes along with the dev kit??? Just Curious, besides the computer, is there a contact saying you HAVE to give back this computer at the end of 2006?? Also, keyboard, mouse?? I'm just curious because a 1000 bucks is a good chuck of change. Also manauls what other things is there besides the computer?? There has to be more then just an install cd/dvd and a computer. What about updates do you get those from the software updater or adc website? Thanks for your time



Yes, there is a contract, that you agree to when you buy it (Supplemental Terms), that says the machine must be received w/in 7 days of the end of the contract, which is made to occur on Dec 31 2006.

The machine comes with USB keyboard and mouse, power cord, and an installer DVD. Thats it. You must keep the original packaging (only slightly larder then a g5 tower), and best I can tell it is your responsibility to ship it, but they say more details will come as the contract nears termination.. Im not sure about updates, there arent any yet. but Im sure it will run leopard as those builds come along.

Really you are just paying to get the opportunity to port your software before consumers get machines, so there isnt a 'lag' where they cant use machines.

If you make particular software, I would be glad to test it on my system and tell you if it runs right under rosetta, so you know you have leeway with that.

-IntelDev


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## chadwick (Jun 24, 2005)

Here's something they're doing that's just plain wrong...

http://developer.apple.com/document.../Assembler/ASMLayout/chapter_4_section_4.html



> The Mac OS X assembler orders operand fields for i386 instructions in the reverse order from Intels conventions. Intels convention is destination first, source second; Mac OS X assemblers convention is source first, destination second. Where Intel documentation would describe the Compare and Exchange instruction for 32-bit operands as follows:









Hopefully they'll fix that eventually.


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## lurk (Jun 25, 2005)

It is not just an Apple thing GCC on Linux is the same.  What you are seeing is the difference between AT&T and Intel assembly.  Google for "AT&T intel assembly" for all the gory details.  The upshot it that if this has not be resolved in the past 25 years don't hold your breath...


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