# Apple Gaming Division?



## King Shrek (Apr 30, 2005)

Link



> According to an anonymous report, Apple and ATI have been in talks about either creating or purchasing a Game Development unit.
> 
> The purpose of such a division would presumably be to create compelling games for the Mac platform to help attract more PC users to switch to the Mac platform.
> 
> ...



Boy, I certainly hope this rumor is true. Apple, if you are not even the slightest bit considering such a move then I still think you should just do it anyway. Reason being is that this would be a brilliant way to bring more PC users to the Mac platform.

Apple, what I would do in this case is contract with some top third-party developers to help you to develop POPULAR games that run only on and are designed exclusively for the Mac platform. These games would need to be designed to take the fullest advantage of the technology available on the Mac platform, that way they should look better, sound better and peform better than any other games that run on the Mac.

These games should also be made to run great even on a low-end system like the Mac Mini. That way it will make it easier for gaming enthusiasts to justify paying $500-$600 for a system to play dozens of AWESOME games that won't run on any other platform. By doing so, these gamers will likely end up deciding that they really like the Mac platform and later on will be able to justify buying something better like an eMac, iMac, iBook, Powerbook or PowerMac.

Plus, in the process of getting more gaming enthusiasts to switch to the Mac platform, third-party developers will likely then be able to justify porting more of their PC games to the Mac, which will make the Mac platform even more attractive to PC users, especially PC gamers.

Just do it, Apple!  ::love::


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## riccbhard (May 2, 2005)

All in favor say "I" 

I

C'mon Apple


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## Pengu (May 2, 2005)

a gaming "enthusiast" won't want anything less than a G5 Powermac or G4 PowerBook with 128 DDR Video.


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## nixgeek (May 3, 2005)

This has been tried in the past, but has failed.  I'm hoping that this time it actually pulls through.  I would LOVE to see more games on the Mac, especially considering the "POWER" inside these machines.   Even if it's to have a team dedicated to PROPERLY PORTING the games over from the PC side, it would be a start which would bring more gamers to the Mac.  Eventually, if this takes off, we might see games developed first on the Mac and then ported over to the PC side, or at least companies investing the time and money to create native versions for both platforms.

Maybe even now with the Xbox 360 being POWER-based, we might see more developers working on Macintosh titles as well since they will already have the hardware from the dev kits for the XBOX 360.  Who knows....


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## Lt Major Burns (May 3, 2005)

i'm all for it. when apple use their heads and try extract the *potential* power from the g5..... they do it good.  motion. all the lovelly small effects dotted around macOS.  imagine 3d stuff to the same standard as quartz....

i want them to create a vector-graphic pro-app - an illustrator beater harnessing, not ignoring the power of my dual g5 and macOS


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## King Shrek (May 3, 2005)

nixgeek said:
			
		

> Even if it's to have a team dedicated to PROPERLY PORTING the games over from the PC side, it would be a start which would bring more gamers to the Mac. Eventually, if this takes off, we might see games developed first on the Mac and then ported over to the PC side, or at least companies investing the time and money to create native versions for both platforms.



You do realize that if Apple began working with third-party game developers to develop games ONLY for the Mac that it would increase the VALUE of the Mac platform. The PC platform already has many games that can only be played on it, so it's only fair. Think about it.


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## riccbhard (May 3, 2005)

If there were a bunch of Mac-only games they would certainly attract the PC world.


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## King Shrek (May 3, 2005)

nixgeek said:
			
		

> I would LOVE to see more games on the Mac, especially considering the "POWER" inside these machines.



Speaking of which, making Mac-only games that look and sound GREAT even on low-end systems like the Mac Mini and the eMac just might get many PC users to realize the AWESOME performance of the Mac and will allow them justifying buying a cheaper low-end Mac, while prosumers and creative professionals will still dig the iMac, PowerMac and Powerbook "G5".


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## texanpenguin (May 4, 2005)

The Mac Mini does NOT have a video card capable of anything that'll tempt even the most gullible of PC gamers.

And as a matter of interest, wasn't Bungie (developers of Halo) a Mac-only games producer until Microsoft bought them out?


And the X-Box 360 won't help the Mac gaming world much, from my understanding, since MS will port Direct X to it first, and people will still be programming in Direct 3D instead of OpenGL (which is what OS X can use).


But then, do we really want the rabble on OS X? I have a number of "gamer" friends and they're a strange people. The kinds of people who see humour in writing viruses that target their mates (and all their mates' friends, etc., etc.). See where I'm heading here?


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## riccbhard (May 4, 2005)

Funny, I can play 3D intensive games on my Mac Mini fine   

And it still has 256MB RAM.  

RallyShift runs extremely well, even in 32 bit mode.


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## Convert (May 4, 2005)

My Powerbook's not such a bad gaming machine. I've been playing Battlefield 1942, Rise of Nations, Ghost Recon, and Call of Duty, all run fine, Call of Duty looks really good. I need more RAM though, I tried a 64 player game on Battlefield... eugh.


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## lbj (May 4, 2005)

King Shrek said:
			
		

> You do realize that if Apple began working with third-party game developers to develop games ONLY for the Mac that it would increase the VALUE of the Mac platform. The PC platform already has many games that can only be played on it, so it's only fair. Think about it.



Please help me to understand exactly what a "third-party game developer" is and how they would go about developing games ONLY for the Mac.


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## nixgeek (May 5, 2005)

King Shrek said:
			
		

> You do realize that if Apple began working with third-party game developers to develop games ONLY for the Mac that it would increase the VALUE of the Mac platform. The PC platform already has many games that can only be played on it, so it's only fair. Think about it.



I am aware of that.  Apple tried to do this in the mid 90s with GameSprockets, but it never took off.  QuickDraw 3D RAVE was what Apple was using for 3D acceleration.  I think the main problem was that RAVE wasn't necessarily accepted by the industry as something standard (proprietary to Apple's OS).  OpenGL was there, but it was very nascent, and MS was just starting to introduce DirectX to the consumer gaming market.  At that time, even if Apple's technology was better, because of Apple's financial state and perception from consumers no one would have taken them seriously.  Remember that this was when Apple was on the verge of actually going under (almost a reality this time around).  Thankfully, Stevie came back and pulled it out of the brink to where it is now.

Now that Apple is more appealing to the consumer (thanks to the iPod), this would be a good way to finally show everyone something that us old Mac users have known for years (even on an older, cooperative-multitasked environment): that the Mac is definitely the machine for the rest of us.  And not just for the rest of us, but for the rest of us to actually be productive in recreation, work, what-have-you....to actually ENJOY using a computer, not be confounded by it.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 5, 2005)

lbj said:
			
		

> Please help me to understand exactly what a "third-party game developer" is and how they would go about developing games ONLY for the Mac.



"Third-party" == not Apple.

Just like some developers only develop games for the XBox, while others only develop for the PS2, while yet others only develop for x86, developing games ONLY for the Mac would be just that: developing games that run only on the Macintosh platform.


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## lbj (May 5, 2005)

Thanks, that helps.  Another question (and honestly, I'm not trying to cause trouble), what would a second-party developer be? 

I'm assuming first-party is the company in question. Why do we jump to third-party when discussing anyone but the primary company?


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## Lt Major Burns (May 5, 2005)

I am the first party

He is the second party

John is the third party


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## lelereb (May 18, 2005)

A good idea would be making mac officially and natively compatible with nintendo game cube (that has a ppc and an ati graphic card...).


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## nixgeek (May 18, 2005)

lelereb said:
			
		

> A good idea would be making mac officially and natively compatible with nintendo game cube (that has a ppc and an ati graphic card...).



I guess it could be easier, but since the PPC CPUs in each of the consoles being released and that in the current Mac line are variations of one another, it might not turn out as well as one would think.

To put it simply, they pretty much share the same core, but it changes beyond that.  The console CPUs are designed simply for the task of gaming, while those in Macs have to be able to do so much more than just that.  Plus, most of the system boards on consoles are highly optimized so that the graphics, CPU, and anything else work together to keep the gameplay flowing smoothly.  To have that on a PC/Mac would require LOTS of cooling power being that they are more complex beasts.  I know I'm putting this very simply, but that's kind of the conclusion I've been getting from reading comparisons between the CPUs.

Maybe someone else can dish the geeky details on why this might be difficult...or even why it WOULD'NT be so difficult.


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## Lycander (May 18, 2005)

Lt Major Burns said:
			
		

> I am the first party
> 
> He is the second party
> 
> John is the third party


Wouldn't it be "You are the second party" ? Second party is when you're speaking directly to that person. He/she him/her is still speaking in the third person I think.


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## Lt Major Burns (May 18, 2005)

sorry, yes you, as the second party, are perfectly right


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## King Shrek (May 18, 2005)

lelereb said:
			
		

> A good idea would be making mac officially and natively compatible with nintendo game cube (that has a ppc and an ati graphic card...).



I don't think Nintendo would ever allow this.  As you may not have already heard, Nintendo recently announced that their next system, Revolution, will be backwards compatible with Gamecube games, so making Gamecube games compatible with the Mac would undermine Nintendo's ability to sell Revolution systems as well as Gamecubes.  No dice cumberbund.


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## Viro (May 18, 2005)

Don't all console manufacturers sell consoles at a loss in order to recoup the loss via game sales? If this is the case with the Gamecube and the Revolution, I see no reason why it would be detrimental for Nintendo to allow Macs to play. Surely the games will still be sold, and this time you're actually widening the market.

Then again, you lose the benefits of a console in the first place, i.e. the standard hardware.


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## Cat (May 18, 2005)

> Don't all console manufacturers sell consoles at a loss in order to recoup the loss via game sales?


So, you mean, like, games are too expensive? Like _artificially_ high prices? NO WAY!!!1!1!!11 ...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 18, 2005)

No, he means that the consoles are sold at a loss to the company that made them, and they recoup their losses through game sales.  In short, it costs Microsoft more to _make_ the Xbox than it does to buy one, so they don't make a profit off of the console itself.  They then license companies to produce games for the console, and on a $50 game, Microsoft makes about $5.  With a game like Halo, that translates into millions of dollars, which can then cover the cost of the console.



			
				Viro said:
			
		

> I see no reason why it would be detrimental for Nintendo to allow Macs to play. Surely the games will still be sold, and this time you're actually widening the market.


Yeah, but then (for example), Nintendo only makes money from the game, and not from the console... if they keep it closed like it is now, they make a little money from the sale of the console, and a little more with the sale of the game.  Without having to purchase the console to play the game, they only make money from the game sale -- that's why it would be detrimental!  Even though they don't make a _profit_ from the console, it still generates revenue for them.


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## King Shrek (May 18, 2005)

King Shrek said:
			
		

> I don't think Nintendo would ever allow this. As you may not have already heard, Nintendo recently announced that their next system, Revolution, will be backwards compatible with Gamecube games, so making Gamecube games compatible with the Mac would undermine Nintendo's ability to sell Revolution systems as well as Gamecubes. No dice cumberbund.



Also, not to forget that the Revolution system will probably sell for much less money than Apple can ever sell the Mac Mini for, which means that it would be cheaper to just buy a Revolution to play Gamecube games than to buy a Mac to play Gamecube games.  This obviously wouldn't help Apple sell more Macs at all.


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## Reality (May 19, 2005)

lbj said:
			
		

> Thanks, that helps.  Another question (and honestly, I'm not trying to cause trouble), what would a second-party developer be?
> 
> I'm assuming first-party is the company in question. Why do we jump to third-party when discussing anyone but the primary company?



A second party developer is a company (in this case a game studio) who's makes exclusive content for the people they are 2nd Party to. That's pretty much their job. In Nintendo's case, they use to own a portion of a company called Rare.

How a studio becomes a second party is pretty simple. First they approach the company they want to develop exclusively for (Lets say Nintendo), contracts are made, parts of the company becomes official property of Nintendo. So everything they make is now supervised by Nintendo. They decide what games that 2nd Party will make and what games they will not be making anymore. In some cases, Nintendo could even sale their portions of the company to someone else, like M$. They did such a thing with the company Rare.
----------------------------------------

Now a big big big feature of the Revolution isn't just Gamecube compatibility, but the ability to down load and play games from all Nintendo's past consoles.


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## Lycander (May 19, 2005)

About playing Revolution games on a Mac... ahem, memory card? Controller? Other peripherals? It is really worth it to create a bridge for all those devices?


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## Pengu (May 19, 2005)

who needs a memory card when you have a hard disk? there are several usb adapters to plug in PS2 and XBOX controllers. or just use a native USB controller.

what else do you want to plug in?


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## Lycander (May 19, 2005)

Pengu said:
			
		

> who needs a memory card when you have a hard disk?


For the same reason (portable) memory cards were conceived in the first place... take it to a friends house. But you're right, where there's a will there's a way.


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## Pengu (May 20, 2005)

exactly: usb flash drive. SD/MMC/MS/etc card. phone memory.


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