# How many graphic designers?



## CaptainQuark (Jan 19, 2005)

How many of the regulars on MACOSX.COM are graphic designers?


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## RGrphc2 (Jan 19, 2005)

me, well just started Designing anyways.    

Getting my Associates this spring, and then going for my B.F.A.      Too bad my folks aren't paying for the BFA...


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## Randman (Jan 19, 2005)

I do more more design and layout than graphic design but dabble in graphic design in my job as well.


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## Natobasso (Jan 19, 2005)

I am a freelance designer here in San Diego. Most recent work was www.geniusproducts.com (though that site is ongoing and YES, it is very busy, design-wise, indeed.)

 Designing for 10 years. Took 8 month "Desktop Publishing Course" at Collins College, Tempe, AZ. Bachelor of Arts in Spanish before that at Whitman College.


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## Natobasso (Jan 19, 2005)

Hey Quark, have you tried InDesign?


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## CaptainQuark (Jan 19, 2005)

Yup. But you'll NEVER guess which app I prefer!


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## Natobasso (Jan 19, 2005)

I gotta say, after using InDesign for the past 8 months, I'm hooked! I'll never use Quark again.


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## smithy (Jan 19, 2005)

Im a designer - but i am gonna start study for a ba in design in 2007, can't wait to get into the industry !


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## Vard (Jan 19, 2005)

I was doing the self-teaching method of graphic design...even had plenty of practice doing different things for my wifes coffee shop and her fathers antique store...

But then I realized that I was better, and enjoyed a heck of a lot more, photography.  That's where my creativity goes these days...but I still dabble with things when someone needs something.

I've never used Quark, but I enjoy InDesign.


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## CaptainQuark (Jan 19, 2005)

Natobasso said:
			
		

> I gotta say, after using InDesign for the past 8 months, I'm hooked! I'll never use Quark again.


Each to his own. I also prefer Freehand to Illustrator.




			
				smithy said:
			
		

> Im a designer - but i am gonna start study for a ba in design in 2007, can't wait to get into the industry !


Don't get me started m8. (Climbs aboard soapbox) I grew up during the war in Rhodesia, where the econmony was geared almost entirely to fighting the war, so there were no courses in graphic design available. I managed to get a job at an advertising agency where I learned on the job. I've now been at it for 25 years.

During my time in the biz, I have _trained_ a large number of graduates of graphic design courses. They may have a degree, but the courses that they took _didn't_ include any training ion how to use the tools of the trade! It pisses me off when I miss out on a job opportunity to some snot-nosed kid straight out of college, who has a degree but can barely switch on a Mac  let alone produce a job using the industry-standard software!

Sorry if this sounds like a rant at you, Smithy  it's not  it's directed at the failings of the system. 

Best of luck to ya, m8!


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## stv1701 (Jan 19, 2005)

Yep, another Graphic Designer here too. 14 years now. For what it's worth I'm now a convert to InDesign. Never thought it would happen but i must say I love it. I still use Quark from time to time but if I'm starting a new job it's InDesign all the way.


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## stv1701 (Jan 19, 2005)

CaptainQuark said:
			
		

> During my time in the biz, I have _trained_ a large number of graduates of graphic design courses. They may have a degree, but the courses that they took _didn't_ include any training ion how to use the tools of the trade! It pisses me off when I miss out on a job opportunity to some snot-nosed kid straight out of college, who has a degree but can barely switch on a Mac  let alone produce a job using the industry-standard software!



Yeah, I have to agree with that. I've been turned down from several jobs without even seeing my portfolio just because I don't have a BA Degree. I guess being a Senior Design and Creative Director for years isn't enough. Oh, and a very good portfolio. I've also had guys working under me with degrees that don't even know the most basic commands in the industry standard design packages.

Right, got that off my chest now


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## CaptainQuark (Jan 19, 2005)

stv1701 said:
			
		

> I've also had guys working under me with degrees that don't even know the most basic commands in the industry standard design packages.



Ain't it the truth!?


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## smithy (Jan 19, 2005)

No worries CaptainQuark - i only do design at the moment as a hobby and to build up a substansial portfolio in case that i don't get into my ba, so that i can go to a private commercial college. However im trying to  get some work experience and so i can get some better training from proper graphic designers, not a lecturer thinking that they know about the industry. 

At the moment i don't use Photoshop at all, I first used paintshop pro (lol yes i did in those dark old days on the Pc) and then i switched to Fireworks and im still at fireworks. But once i get Cs Suite im defenaitly switching to Photoshop and Illustrator. Before everyone bags out Fireworks, i know it lacks of alot of stuff but the vector graphics is very good, with intergration with flash and freehand. 

Now  about the degree stuff - I would have to agree i think to be a graphic designer you need basically hand drawing experience/skills and then well obviously computer design skills. Hand drawings will never be fased  out, because basically unless you have one of those little pads + pens that hook up to the computer, some things you do by hand is alot easier than drawing with a mouse. The current pre-requisite (spelling??) to courses in Design at a University is only English. Sometimes i find it hard to see why some acquired art and composition knowledge isnt there, i guess they just see graphic designers as you only need to spell to be one. I find this wrong in a sense. But the next generation of designers around my age are also very talented and everyone these days (including myself) is very talented and have a good artistic/design background. As it is i can do stuff on the computer/by hand/ by paint brush and i have some work of mine featured in the general public painted. I think why more and more people are getting involved in the design industry, is because we are currently in a very much so style/design based era. Think about it look how much stuff from the 50's (modernism) and then 60's/70's (More vintage style) 80's (punkish style) is coming back in. Well it think my talking about nothing time is up but yer thats what i think - honestly i can't wait to be a graphic designer as it is i would love to get a job at the moment just for the work experience as a junior designer but i think you even have to a degree to do that !


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## Arden (Jan 19, 2005)

I sit on top of Mount Photoshopolympus and look down at the peons below me. 

But seriously, I wanted to do graphic design at one point, but the only tool I've ever had available to me (and thus been able to learn) is Photoshop.  And then one day, I found I was bored of it.  I imagine if I had more experience using other tools like Illustrator, Indesign, etc. I would be poised to enter the world of graphic design, but as it is I'm focussed on becoming a programmer.


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## Ricky (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm a designer too!

I don't know how long I've used Photoshop, but it's been a shorter amount of time than some of you.  Maybe five years?


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## Lt Major Burns (Feb 6, 2005)

i'm 19 and currently studying for the BA. What you guys are saying is ringing true though - i have no idea which is better (InDesign/Quark) because i have never used them - not through choice - it is just not the slant the course takes. 

they're trying to teach us what looks good/bad and how to get strong design out there.  the technical side is severely lacking - i have no idea about the complexities of page layout - and both programs confuse the hell out of me.   we get 1hr a weeks tutelage on macs - where one guys tells the room (50+ people) the basics of photoshop. 

i know potatochop like the back of my hand, because i've spent the last 5 years playing with it - now that i have to use it to work, it's become a tool.  i don't know any other packages yet - i'm desperately trying to learn illustrator, because i found myself lacking, but these are not the most intuitive apps we're talking about here - they are the best for when you are the best, but for the first time user - confusing.   

CaptainQuark you are right - the system simply doesn't put enough of a slant on the technical side of it. i am having to learn these programs in my spare time, as that is the only way i'll ever learn - it's going to take me at least a decade to get anywhere with them though - so i'm starting now. proof that these programs are confusing? try using director to make an interactive cd-rom for the first time. you wouldn't even guess where to begin.

btw how many of you (be honest!) are using pirate graphics suites?


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## Randman (Feb 6, 2005)

A real designer is going to pay for what they use and not deal with pirated or sub-standard stuff. A real designer isn't going to limit himself to learning just one type of program such as InDesign or Quark.


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## Decado (Feb 6, 2005)

i work for a small two person firm that design logos and such.
Our speciality is hand drawn text originals painted with a pensel-pen that we then digitilize, vectorize and incorporate with printed text. We also do a lot of originals that require beautiful handwriting such as wedding invitations, diplomas and art-posters.

i lost touch with photoshop around version 3.0 (last version i used in design school), and have since mostly worked in freehand. i know illustrator, but have never worked with it (just used it on a friends computer).
i also, just for fun, use stratavision 3d to do pictures that are a mix between computer-made and hand-made . like this picture that i made for a company calender


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## symphonix (Feb 6, 2005)

I was doing graphic design for a local newspaper about 5 years ago, for over a year I designed ads and layout for the paper. This was mostly real estate and car ads, though there was plenty of other editorial and ads to do.

I've been out of that for a while now, and am working in IT instead, but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and would recommend that anyone interested in graphic design as a career should go for it, it is very satisfying work for a creative person.


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## smithy (Feb 7, 2005)

So Decado, do you only mainly use Freehand ? I thought by the looks of that atatchment it would be more Photoshop/Illustrator based work .... Oh and would you recomend any good digitalisers (well those pad and pen thingies) available to buy at stores in Australia ?  i was thinking of those wacom ones or something. 

I use Fireworks at the moment for all my stuff that i make because i cant afford creative suite at the moment. However people can go on about how you should only use industry standard programs like Photoshop, but it doesnt matter what tool you use its what you can make out of that tool that counts. Obviosly different programs are used for different purposes. 

Randman, i agree a true designer has to be versitlle yet strongly efficient in their work. So having experience in a broad horizon of programs is obviously a higher advantage when going for a job within the industry. However people can say they know programs because they might've used them once or twice, so it is rather hard to distinguish between truely advanced users of some programs or just plain ametures.


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## Decado (Feb 7, 2005)

hand-drawn figures scanned into photoshop 3.0 . then i put them through adobe streamline and shaped them up in freehand. then i put them on different materials that i had scanned earlier. and finally i imported them into stratavision as textures. yeah i know... a lot of work for little


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## Decado (Feb 7, 2005)

the thing i dont like about illustrator is that it uses a lot of processorpower sometimes, even when it just sits there.
But i really like the anti-aliasing and smooth shadow-effects


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## smithy (Feb 7, 2005)

Maybe if Fireworks was better for print work you could use that  - I really like fireworks for vector work but i have used illustrator and i prefer illustrator over freehand, dunno but freehand to me (mx) is just abit complicated for some reason ....


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## texanpenguin (Feb 7, 2005)

I'm a studying designer (doing a Bachelor of Creative Arts majoring in Graphic Design and New Media at the University of Wollongong).

I personally use Adobe Photoshop CS (this thing runs my LIFE), Adobe Illustrator CS (logos/vector work), and QuarkXPress 6.5 (because I haven't made my mind up about InDesign yet, and I'm totally familiar with Quark).

I desperately want a version of Adobe Streamline for OS X. Desperately. I also do a lot of cartoons and inkings that I scan and vectorise to digitally colour, and it was by FAR the best program for that.


Someone asked about graphics tablets:

I've, in the past, had three - one ADB Wacom (came with my Wallstreet). It was about 8.5" and it was really good in OS 9 (ADB tablets aren't supported in OS X). Really good. If anyone still uses ADB Macs and OS 9, I'll sell this to you and you'll cry with joy. Then, on my PC, I asked for one for Christmas, and my parents fell for the size hype. I got a huge third-party brand. VERY huge. Around A4 size of effective area. The tablet was supposed to have 512 levels of pressure (twice as much as many old WACOMs had). Well needless to say, it was tragic. The pressure sensitivity just never was right.
So then my cousin bought me a Wacom Graphire 2. It's tiny, only 4 or 5 inches of usable space, but it's the best tablet I have (works on a PC for the amazing openCanvas, and on OS X for Alias Sketchbook Pro and of course, Photoshop and Painter). It's really worthwhile for someone who does alot of painting with their mouse .


But don't expect them to replace a pencil and paper. A tablet doesn't feel "right" yet. I often have to put a sheet of paper ON TOP of the tablet so I get some resistance from the surface (I have very bad nerves)


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## CaptainQuark (Feb 7, 2005)

texanpenguin said:
			
		

> I desperately want a version of Adobe Streamline for OS X. Desperately.



Let me know if you find one. I'm still running an ancient version in OS 9 *yawn*.


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## monktus (Feb 9, 2005)

Me too.

And to add my 2c, I'm an InDesign person. I used Quark a lot in the past but I got InDesign when it came out and never looked back. Most of the work I do is screen based though so I mostly use PS, Dreamweaver and Director (though not as much recently). I've been getting into Flash (well, LiveMotion because I hate Flash) but it annoys me.

I used to work for a design company in Edinburgh but I started a company with a couple of friends a few months ago; we'll also be doing music publishing and production.


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## JPigford (Feb 9, 2005)

I've been doing both print and interactive design for about 5 years professionally. I'm hardcore about Adobe products (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) and if I had an A-bomb I send it towards Quark. Speciality would be in organic design with an emphasis on texture. I like to design stuff traditionally and then beat the stank out of it with Photoshop and Illustrator. ::evil::


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## Pardus (Feb 9, 2005)

In my previous life I owned a couple of skate/snowboard shops and started getting into design to promote my shops. I started my first online store in 1995 and made tons of t-shirts, magazine ads and POP around the store. I come from a pretty artistic family so I guess it was an easier transition. Then my suppliers started asking me to do their catalogs and websites and next thing I knew I was designing full time and hired someone else to run my stores. I sold those off in 1998 and have been running my home-based business since then. I have been offered a few jobs at design firms but chose to work from home to look after my son and now have built a pretty strong client base. For my web work I have a portfolio at http://www.e-brochures.ca it is getting a little outdated but have been too busy to work on version 3, maybe this summer while I am out by the pool sipping margaritas in my back yard  Adobe CS and Macromedia MX is all i use. For those wanting streamline OS X, have you tried Flash trace bitmap? Depending on the result you want it can be useful in vectorizing images.


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## CaptainQuark (Feb 9, 2005)

JPigford said:
			
		

> if I had an A-bomb I send it towards Quark


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## agusgriego (Feb 9, 2005)

I'm studying Graphic Design in Argentina and this is my last year.. I'm 22 and been working as a graphic designer for 5 years know (i've always had a good sense of aesthetics). 
I mainly do web design but I also love Motion Graphics and know about print design, etc. I use ALL the software you can imagine, each for its purpose. For pixel images photoshop and fireworks for optimization (it's tools are way better than adobe's Save for Web option). Illutrator almost for everything (layouts etc.) combined with photoshop for things that can't be done with vectors. InDesign for page layout, brochures etc. After Effects for Motion graphics. Fireworks Flash and Dreamweaver for web design.
I have ditched quark since version 5 and can't stand freehand.
That's all


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## CaptainQuark (Feb 10, 2005)

agusgriego said:
			
		

> I have ditched quark since version 5 and can't stand freehand.


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## Robn Kester (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm a graphic designer too. (arent we all?)

I've been doing it since the late 80s on computers. (Ventura Publisher anyone?)

I do and have done:
- print design (everything you can think of from small ads to huge catalogs)
- web design (same here, tiny sites to huge corp sites)
- illustration (2d and 3d, airbrush, modeling, etc)

I'm quite adept with Photoshop and know my way around a few other programs as well.

I've also done layout by hand using wax paste up, letraset lettering, etc. One thing I hated was those stupid ink pens (rapidograph), I'm left handed and always seemed to drag my hand thru the wet ink.

r


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## Natobasso (Mar 8, 2005)

Robn Kester said:
			
		

> I'm a graphic designer too. (arent we all?)



Trouble is, everyone thinks they are a graphic designer because they have powerpoint! Sad state of affairs.

Though there are more jobs now than in the past 2 years. It's a cyclical business with folks thinking they can do without Marketing and just let the Sales team do it. Then you get black and white copied brochures and powerpoint presentations. Ugh! 

I got in around 1995 so I didn't have to deal with paste ups and rubies and all that


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## Robn Kester (Mar 8, 2005)

I have been doing other stuff with GD on the site lately. Got laid off after 8 faithful hard working years with a guy about 2 years ago and havent had any luck finding work since. I'm told that my portfolio isnt diverse enough, or that my work is not "world class". Which is BS because every peice i've done has a story, a budget, rules, reasons... but they dont care about those things, all they see is a piece and then judge me.

last time I tried to find work here was a while back. Just got tired of getting rejected over and over. Appearantly, if I had jumped from job to job with no loyalty, I would have been a perfect hire. but because I stayed with my job for 8 years thru crappy times, I was stupid and therefore noone wanted me. Wierd.


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## Qion (Mar 8, 2005)

I have been working with graphic design, layouts, and photography for a while. I am a little young to have a degree yet(I won't tell you my age), but I plan to major in architecture and graphic design in college. I always enjoy creating something new.


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## Robn Kester (Mar 9, 2005)

Architecture is good stuff. That is what my father does and has done for most of his life. Actually, I work for his company, but mostly I don't do graphic design there. I run prints and errands and do the company website etc.


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## Natobasso (Mar 9, 2005)

Robn, maybe  you need to start your own project that meets those "World Class" needs (whatever the heck those are!) and then you can tailor your services to the needs of your market.

Here in San Diego companies want people that they don't have to train that they can depend on who can do a wide variety of things. Maybe if you showed in your area that you can do it all, web, print, etc., then maybe your stock will go up, as it were?

Sorry to hear that you've hit a bump in the road


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## senne (Mar 9, 2005)

I am! I'm 19 years old and I'm studying Graphic Design in the Sint-Lukas Arts School of Brussels.


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## Robn Kester (Mar 9, 2005)

Qion - Never too young to do good design. Don't let your age bother you, I have seen some amazing artists/designers who were just kids with nowhere but up to grow! I'm still amazed when I see some of the complexity and depth that the younger graphic designers produce. Lots of skills out there!

Natobasso - The 'world class' comment was from one particular company and one guy who interviewed me there. He bashed my portfolio, told me I was not a good designer, and told me how they only want world class designers. Yet he not once considered each piece I presented to him, why it looked how it did, what it's budget was and how great it came out despite the low budgets, that sort of thing.

Any designer knows...each piece has a story, and if you ignore the story, the piece just has no meaning.

This particular company had/has their heads so far up their egotistical behinds that they think they are the be-all to end-all. And I doubt nothing I showed him would have been pleasing. What was truly ironic, and unsettling about the whole thing was really the best part...

The company I had worked for previous for 8 years did TONS of work for this very same company, and my porfolio was filled with great peices I did for them over the years! Hell, I saw some of my one sheets in their flyer rack when I walked thru the cubicles to my interview!

I found out later from the temp agency guy who sent me on the interview that this guy was a jerk to everyone. But it didnt stop it from stinging. Since I know I am a good designer, and I know each piece I have done was done above and beyond, I just like to tell the story to remind folks that sometimes people's personal attitudes interfere with their judgements when hiring.

senne -  congrats on your choice of field. I love design, I truly enjoy my creative skills and using them to help others accomplish their goals. Have you chosen a particular subsect of design, like web or print or illustration? Or are you just hitting all the bases?

r


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## Qion (Mar 9, 2005)

Robn Kester said:
			
		

> Qion - Never too young to do good design. Don't let your age bother you, I have seen some amazing artists/designers who were just kids with nowhere but up to grow! I'm still amazed when I see some of the complexity and depth that the younger graphic designers produce. Lots of skills out there!
> 
> Any designer knows...each piece has a story, and if you ignore the story, the piece just has no meaning.



Right on man, you got the right mentality.


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