# Apple Lemon Policy?



## Vyper (Dec 9, 2002)

Hi, I've been having problems with my graphite iMac 700 mhz g3 (Summer 2001 edition), and am having to return it to an Apple certified retailer for repairs for the third time, this and the previous being problems with the hard drive, and the first for a broken CD drive. This time after running Micromat Techtool and Norton Systemworks, neither were able to fix it. Also, when running the Jaguar installer, it didn't see the hard drive. This happened shortly after a reinstall, because of problems with the os (10.2.2 at the time), perhaps early signs of the problem. I started noticing the major problems whilst in 10.2.0 as I was running the 10.2.2 download in Software Update. 

If you're too lazy to read that or it wasn't clear enough or something, my question is this: Does Apple do anything for people experiencing many difficulties with their computer(besides simply fixing the current problems)? I've had this computer for almost exactly one year now (as for warrantee, I bought Applecare two weeks ago, after picking up my iMac from its last problem)

The problems I'm experiencing right now are extremely sluggish performance (booting up, logging in), but I think it's due to the hard drive spinning abnormally slowly,  because when I select my name from the Users list via the keyboard, it performs perfectly until I hit enter and log in. Why do I do this through the keyboard? Because it doesn't want to move the cursor. And to resolve a troubleshooting problem or two: I have 512 megs of ram, so no prob there.

I know there's something wrong with this computer, my old 7200 _never_ had problems like this, and if everyone else was experiencing what I am, Apple wouldn't be in business anymore.

_P.S. A new iLamp would be nice _


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## kendall (Dec 9, 2002)

Well Apple's policy is to keep repairing your broken iMac until hell freezes over.

Each time you've returned it, has Apple found something wrong with it?  Also, how much time passed between each time you've returned it?

You could keep asked to have your iMac replaced considering they seem unable to fix it.  If the person you're talking to is unwilling to help, just asked to talk to their supervisor.  If you raise enough of a stink, chances are your iMac will be replaced.

Good luck.


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## HECTORdaBIZATCH (Dec 10, 2002)

you're going to have raise quite a stink.

i have had to call apple a few times, and i could not for the life of me get a supervisor on the line during any of these conversations.

don't get me wrong, i love apple, and am generally happy with their service, but this one woman i was on the phone with went so far as to deny that she even *had* a supervisor.

i suppose it might all be up to who you get on the phone, but you might really have to hold your ground. just some heads up.


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

not at apple, but at another company, i got one of those 'know-it-all-idiots" who kept insisting the problem was me and not their hardware. i had gone thru enough scenarios with the problem to know that it was their problem. and this guy also refused to let me speak with a supervisor. so i called back their sales dpt and talked to someone who makes a living off the reputation of the product. he connected me with the supervisor, who admitted i was right. he had to deal with a chip supplier to get the necessary firmware update so it took a few days before the problem was solved. but of course i reported the other guy to the supervisor and by the time my problem was solved, the other guy didn't work there anymore.
so i agree with everyone who says jump up the chain of command, switch the division you are contacting, do whatever it takes to get ahold of somebody who cares about apple and not just their own ego and following the rules for what they think is job security. it shouldn't have to be like this, but all too often tech help and customer service in the computer industry is done by wannabe geeks with an overinflated value of themselves and their knowledge. God forbid anyone should challenge that.


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## MacLuv (Dec 10, 2002)

I don't think it's entirely the staff's fault. Often they have to act as the "gatekeepers" of the org, otherwise everyone would want to speak to the supervisor when something went wrong. In Apple's case, the service policy is obviously being followed, which is making me consider that they're not switching units based on inventory cycle management--in other words, the machine switched out would cost Apple more in the end becuase they paid less for the parts to make it. 

Oversimplified example: customer A pays $1000 for machine, Apple pays $500 for inventory. 

Apple takes it back to replace with new inventory. New inventory costs Apple $300. 

Now Apple is 
a. stuck with a possibly defective product to repair, and 
b. misses  $200 extra profit opportunity because the product has already been paid for. (In other words, to the customer it's the same price. To Apple, each machine had a different cost/profit margin.)

Also, if Apple took back the defective unit and had to replace it, the defective unit would have to be sold as refurbished. Does Apple even sell refurbished items anymore?

By making the customer responsible for the repair (even under warranty) Apple avoids all costs associated with returns management.

:banana:


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

i can't argue with your point macluv, but i also think it limits the dollars and cents to the immediate ones. any time any company pisses somebody off like this, the bad rep spreads to many more people and alot more than the original profit is lost. and vyper appears to have been satisified with apple's policy during the first attempt to fix it. i hate to say it, but i think apple owes him the benefit of the doubt the second time around. and i think he can get that from them if he just puts in the effort to talk to the right person. but what do i know - my apples have always worked great. it's all this other crap i buy to plug into them that raises my blood pressure.


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## MacLuv (Dec 10, 2002)

Yeah it looks like Vyper got stuck with an iLemon.

:lol: <-- dang, been hangin' round the wrong forum again.

D'OH!

(sorry Vyper--not making a joke at your expense--I do empathise with your dilemma!)


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## Vyper (Dec 10, 2002)

Well, I got it Christmas 2001, and it didn't start acting up until when I got Jaguar (August 24th) but it wasn't Jaguar, because the CD drive stopped taking CD's like immediately before it shipped. I returned it to the Apple store on Labor Day weekend, and got it back like September 3rd. In late October, my hard drive failed, same scenario I'm experiencing right now: installers and disk repair softwares wouldn't see the disk, and it was taking forever to boot up. This problem began occuring December 6th.

So Macluv, in your first post are you saying Apple doesn't replace computers because they'd be losing more money in the long run or what? My dad talked to some guy at Apple on the phone who said there was a guy with his iBook that he had so many problems they finally took it and gave him a titanium back. My dad did raise somewhat of a stink at the Apple store, but he was more embarassing than anyting; when someone brought in their Graphite iMac while we were waiting he loudly said "Hmmmmmm" -.-


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## cieran (Dec 10, 2002)

I bought a 600 mhz Grapite iMac in August 2001 and in November 2001 it started to power down for no reason. I would be in the middle of browsing or working or whatever and the power just went off. It got to the point where it would shut off while rebooting so I took it to the local Apple repairshop.

They couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, so I called up Apple and told them what was wrong and they said send it back and it will be replaced. I didn't even have to ask them.


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## Vyper (Dec 10, 2002)

Cool cieram  

When you guys say make a stink, what do you mean by that? As in, speak sarcrastically, show up alot, or what?


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

well, talking sarcastically generally isn't going to get you much. being genuinely upset and straght forward about it does. be mad at the last person you were speaking to, not the one you are talking to at the time. make them feel like they have the chance to be the good guy. being very specific about what the previous person(s) did to anger you often helps. be armed with evidence that it's the company's fault and not yours. be willing to listen when they try to explain their position and try your best not to treat them like idiots. "i understand, but..." is a good reply to have handy. also, having a very specific request for how you want to see the issue resolved is a good thing. and you need to ask for it, not expect them to ask or suggest it.

i've only had 2 companies for which this approach did me no good - belkin and maxtor. i'm not likely to buy either of their products again. especially belkin. belkin claimed it wasn't even their responsibility to make their product work.


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## edX (Dec 10, 2002)

oh, and make your solution realistic - asking for a new ilamp to replace a crt imac is probably not realistic. asking for a new emac might be. asking for the repair and an extra year or 2 of applecare certainly would be.


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## Vyper (Dec 10, 2002)

Heh, I like to dream ^_^

At the Genius Bar in the Apple store the guy who was getting our information out of their databases insisted it was my problem; the actual tech guy said that it was unlikely I was causing kernel panics 

Would an eMac be viable even if it still is CRT instead of LCD? Aren't they a whole lot more powerful?

Regardless, I doubt we'll be getting it replaced any time soon. We took it to CompUSA and because they have barely any staff it shouldn't get looked at until Friday.. If it happens again within 3 months I won't accept anything less than a replacement; four problems within a half of a year isn't what I call reliable.. 

Oh and btw, I wouldn't come in cussing like some jerk unlike that guy who smashed his Gateway Profile 4 in the middle of the store (even though his tantrum was well deserved) I hope that got rid of some customers ^^


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## edX (Dec 11, 2002)

yea, the emac is a better computer, but price wise about the same as what you payed i think. always start with something slightly beter than what you think is fair. you never know you might get it. and if not, you don't feel ripped when they agree to something less. we've hired 2 contractors to do work this year - both screwed up. both delivered what i asked for at first and i would have compromised for about 2/3 of what i was asking.


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## dave17lax (Dec 11, 2002)

Turn off calculate folder size in the view option menu. Works every time, I swear...


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## kalantna (Dec 11, 2002)

Send about 70 email to sjobs@apple.com, steve@apple.com, stevejobs@apple.com, etc. A person that I work with told me that his friend did this and got his ibook replaced. (Urban Legend? I don't know.


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## Vyper (Dec 11, 2002)

Dave - wasn't on in the first place

kalantna - Most likely an urban legend.. I doubt sending your complaint to apple's CEO would do anything, at least more than piss them off.


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## tmcmanamey (Dec 26, 2002)

I've heard of a couple times when Apple has replaced the machine when it seemed bad.  My dad had problems with his for almost 3 years.  He decided to call Apple up and complain to someone.  They decided to replace his machine with the low end model tower and now he's sitting pretty.  It might help that he had applecare though.

Tim


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## Vyper (Dec 26, 2002)

We've got Applecare too; they called us two weeks ago to ask if  we wanted to renew our Applecare (after the one year purchase warantee), but they hadn't known we purchased it several days before that. I asked to talk to their supervisor and  told him our Mac was in the Apple Store _again_ and he said that one of the options was to replace it with a new computer.


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## edX (Dec 26, 2002)

good deal vyper - you going to take that option? sounds like talking to a supervisor paid off.


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## Vyper (Dec 26, 2002)

Yep prolly.. I guess I'll be running my flaky Norton Systemworks after the Macworld convention ^_^


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## edX (Dec 26, 2002)

yea, well if norton won't break it again, nothing will


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## Vyper (Dec 26, 2002)

Yep if it doesn't break it, I guess Im screwed =(


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## Dime5150 (Dec 26, 2002)

Talking down to employees and treating them like garbage isn't going to help your case it will only hurt it. Everyone here that has had a customer service job regardless of the industry knows this. Think about it. If i'm yelling in your ear about how stupid you are you really think you are going to go out of your way to help me? 

I think if your NICE to the people trying to help you, and don't treat them like idiots then you'll get much more success in the end. From most of these types of posts it seems people are attempting to take advantage of having a defective unit so they could get a more expensive model for no extra cost rather then getting the unit working for them. So you can probably understand why apple doesn't just say "oh your computer is defective. Lets give you the more expensive model and lose money!" 

Come on people.


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## Vyper (Dec 26, 2002)

Um I wish I could mark posts like on /. that one would be -1 Troll -.-

That's just what we've been talking about. Read the thread.


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