# Do I really need Office X ???? Apple Works okay???



## Leonis (Oct 10, 2001)

Well....I have been thinking about this question for over a week already.

As some people here already know that I only deal with graphics and video related stuff and don't bother touching "business" stuff.

I have Office 98 (got it from a big clearence sales) and am using it just to type resume and receive guidelines from people. If people send me a complex or new word format I usually tell them to save the file as an older word file or just the RTF files......

Now moving to OSX......I really don't want to deal with Classic. I already paid a big chunk of money on my OSX compliant 3D apps....and once Illustrator, Photoshop, AfterEffects go native all my remaining cash will be going for the upgrade and I will have nothing left for the Office X upgrade.

I am wondering.....will Apple Works do the trick? I have Apple Works which is bundled with my dad's iMac and I can grab it from him. But I am not too sure  how compatible this app with all those WORD documents (especially to those WORD documents with "fancy" layers and text boxes).

Any idea????

Thanks


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 10, 2001)

If what you have works for you and you dont feel any need for the "updates" then dont get it 

It costs A LOT! (well for what it does )


I am keeping with what I have till my dept gets a site licence 


Admiral


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## Leonis (Oct 10, 2001)

My only concern still is Classic......


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 10, 2001)

Well teh way I think about it is this:
Office 98, or 2000 works well for me now, it does what I want it to do.  I do not need anything special that office X will gimme, if it has something special.

By the time I DO need a replacement for office 98 it will be high time to get an OS X version, in which case the purchase is justifieable.  Furthermore classic in the future will be a once in a while occurance, if at all, because all apps will be X native.  Now I use classic everyday when I use X just because 90% of my apps are classic.


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## RacerX (Oct 11, 2001)

Actually AppleWorks should be able to read and write most Office docs (specially Office 97 format if it is coming from a Windows system). I do have a copy of Office 98, but only use it on a few occations.

But this brings up an important point though. Why do we have to pay so much money for apps just to read docs from them? Why pay $900 for QuarkXPress if you don't actually create anything in it? Or $500 for Office v.X to read Word or PowerPoint docs from Windows users when you don't make docs in them yourself.

I think any app that cost over $50 should have to follow the "Acrobat" model. That is to say, there should be a free reader for people who don't create with that app. I have paid for the full version of Acrobat, and the upgrades from 3 to 4, and soon 4 to 5 (when it is Mac OS X compatible), because I use it to create documents. But why should I have to pay for Illustrator, Freehand, QuarkXPress, CorelDRAW (though they now have a free LE version), and others, just to read documents sent to me from other people.

In the last two years I have gotten 1, and only 1 PowerPoint doc sent to me. 5 Word docs that I couldn't open with my favorite Word version, 5.1a. And a couple Excel spreedsheets in all that time. It was NOT worth $500 to me just to be able to open and print or read those docs.

Anyway, AppleWorks 6.2.1 works great for most everything I need it for, and if you need to buy the full version of 6 (if you can only get 5 from your Dad), it is running between $50 and $75 these days. Any version of 6 can be upgraded to 6.2.1 and run native on Mac OS X.


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## chemistry_geek (Oct 11, 2001)

If I'm not mistaken, Office 98 and Office 2001 for Macintosh data file formats are identical.  The only difference between the two office suites are features/interface changes.  I have both suites and I use Office 2001 very frequently, especially M$ Word and M$ Excel.  Being a chemist who must work with reports and data manipulation, I am sort of forced to use M$ products since "the world" uses these products for the most part.  Excel provides some quick and dirty data manipulation due to its features, but there are serious limits to the accuracy of Excel.  It is forbidden for use by the pharmaceutical industry for any calculations because of its limited computational accuracy.  It uses some shortcuts with linear algebra when computing least-squares and a few others that I won't mention.  Excel is business software, so, basically the first two decimal places of any number are accurate but anything else after those can be junk, you never know what is accurate and what isn't.

If you don't use M$ Office very often, or just use it for compatibility with the Windoze world, I would recommend not upgrading unless you absolutely MUST upgrade.  I don't intend on upgrading unless I'm forced to upgrade.  Why give M$ more $$$ for a program you already have.  The features certainly aren't going to change appreciably, and .NET is supposed to be around the corner anyway.  Big deal if it takes you an extra 2 minutes to load Classic, go get some coffee or a snack and come back to the computer.

chemistry_geek


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 11, 2001)

My sentiments exactly 
When you install windoze (well at least in the past this held true) a word and excel viewer were included... this should be done for the mac too, as well as powerpoint.

The last time I created a powerpoint presentation: 4 years ago

Last time I used excel (for non-work matter @ home): 1 year ago (and this was to help a friend...well to do her homework lol )

Last Time I used excel at work: Last week (but since I dont pay for it no prob)

Last time I used  Access (on a PC): Last year when I did that HW for a friend

Last time I used M$ word (at home): 1 month ago.

So I have no serious need to upgrade from what I am currently using and probably wont feel the need to upgrade anyhow.

$500 is quite A LOT of money to just throw away.. I would prefer to buy something constructive, or something that apeases my hobbying interests than give it to M$.



Admiral


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## karavite (Oct 11, 2001)

I got by for years with ClarisWorks - in fact I preferred it well over Office. When they changed the name to AppleWorks I stuck with it for a while. I think as a suite, AppleWorks is far more "seamlessly intergrated" (the most over used and now meaningless term in computing) than Office ever was or will be.

AppleWorks should allow you to save your resume as a Word file (probably rtf is best) so those who you want to hire you will be able to read your stellar resume. However, there still are some funky format and font size issues between Mac and PC. I did my resume in Word 2000 for Mac, but the page breaks were different on the PC Word version of the file. I didn't do anything fancy (times new roman, 1 " margins...) and it was a little embarrassing, so although you really shouldn't have to do this kind of crap, preview any important docs on a PC before you send them away.

By the way, I had AppleWorks but it crashed constantly on OS 9 - now I can't find the darn CD so I can upgrade to the OSX version!!! It's here somewhere!


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## themacko (Oct 11, 2001)

It's all boils down to: "How much do you interact with PC users?"

In my major, I have to trade and submit all of my work in Word *.doc format.  It's REQUIRED by the university that all documents are saved in MS Word.  I tried using AppleWorks for the first few weeks this semester .. but it wasn't hacking it.  In fact I lost an entire paper grade because my file was unreadable for some reason by the TA's Windows Word 2000.

I had since switched to Office:mac 2001 and everything has worked FINE.  Right now I'm using the Word v.X preview from Microsoft and that's working perfectly, too.

As a stand alone wordprocessor, AppleWorks was pretty good.  It wasn't familiar to it having been a MS Office user for ... Jesus probably 6 or more years.  But I'm sure it would suit you fine IF you don't have to swap files with Windows lemmings.


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## sithious (Oct 11, 2001)

... i'd say stick with apple works... office is incredibly expensive and i really don't see the point of it ... also, staying microsoft-free is a pretty cool concept ... 

as racerX says there ought to be a reader... i've got office on my classic drive so i can read word docs, but to paraphrase the admiral:

The last time I created a powerpoint presentation: never

Last time I used excel (for non-work matter @ home): never

Last Time I used excel at work: never

Last time I used Access (on a PC): never

Last time I used M$ word (at home): so long ago i can hardly remember, after all, textedit reads .doc stuff and even windoze can read .rtf ... 

in my opinion, apple works does the job very well, it looks and feels cool and... hey, it's apple!


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 11, 2001)

He he 
To have the universoty DICTATE what format you use, especially a proprietary one like .doc is immoral, or unjust at the very least.  DO they at least pay for teh damn software ?

I can imagine if some university said "evey student must use an IRIX machine and submit project in IRIX native format" people would be in a ***** uproar!


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## Aussie John (Oct 11, 2001)

send people pdf files
get them to send you pdf
more often than not you dont need to edit the file to get just read it.
At least in OSX is easy to make a pdf file

That way no embarrassing resumes formats


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## RacerX (Oct 11, 2001)

The one thing I would love to see come out of the case against Microsoft is the government forcing them to make open source the proprietary documents formats. Mind you, I would not just want this for Microsoft alone... Quark is a guilty as anyone of using their monopoly to take advantage of consumers. 

If Nothing else, we should first work towards a universal internet format. HTML has been poluted by proprietary code from both Netscape and Explorer, and the W3 Consortium just stood by and let it happen. Microsoft is quickly working to make as many web sites as possible Windows/IE only. Unix/Macintosh Users did go out of there way to not let Windows users use the Web back when X-Windows and Mac versions of Mosaic were all that was out there for browsers. NSCA ended up making a Windows version later on. It sure seems like all other platforms are inclusive while Windows is working very hard to be exclusive.


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 11, 2001)

I know of M$ proprietary HTML (which I dont use..or at least hope I dont  ) but what did nescape put in as proprietary ? 9well other than the blink tag) ? 


Any examples ? (I am sure netscape is a culprit too but I seem to see more M$ than netscape)


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## mindbend (Oct 11, 2001)

This one is easy:use Office. Like it or not, it's more or less standard now. Unless you simply do not communicate with any other computer users, it is the most pragmatic option.

The next issue is whether to upgrade or not. Most people will not NEED the new X features (me included), but may want it just for the new look and to avoid Classic altogether (again, me included). If money is an issue, I might recommend just buying a gob of cheap RAM and using Office 98 in Classic mode.

Drop Appleworks completely IMHO. This has nothing to do with whether or not it's a decent program, I'm sure it is. In my experience though, it's just not worth the constant never-ending nuisance of having to save files certain ways for certain people, etc. as well as request that they do the same for you.

---------

Someone complained about an "Acrobat" approach to the Office suite. There are in fact "viewers" for virtually all Office products . These are free and downloadable from Microsoft. Problem solved.


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## Aussie John (Oct 12, 2001)

i think Word is overfeatured and as such commands an unnecessary a price premium.
I know the suite is called office but many private users need to transfer formated text.
Even word 5.1 had too many features.

Making programs conplex is just a way to sell more- like upsizing cars.
It is always ironic that popular cars keep getting bigger with each update till they hardly resemble the original winning formula.

Basically Word/Office is too expensive for what is needed


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## beef (Oct 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Aussie John _
> *send people pdf files
> get them to send you pdf
> more often than not you dont need to edit the file to get just read it.
> ...



I seriously envy you if you tell people you know to send you .pdf files and they don't go "huh?"

one friend asked me to read his stuff (and we are in university... people are supposed to know some stuffs about computer) and he sends it... I asked him what format it is in and... well... he had no idea what I'm talking about.

If I told him to send a pdf... let's just say I can go to his place, print it, and go home before he gets it done....


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## fryke (Oct 12, 2001)

If you send a resume to somebody and don't know whether he uses a version of Word (or whatever) that displays your resume (or whatever) exactly the way you want it to be: Use PDF. In Mac OS X you can save as PDF any document you create. Just go to the print dialog and hit 'Preview'. You can then save that preview as a PDF file that shows *the same* wherever you send it to (unless they read it on a Palm or Win CE thingie, but then they know...) 

If you need to *receive* Office files, right now your only chance is that it might open fine in AppleWorks. Well, it won't. It will have display problems for certain features and line-/pagebreaks will definitely not look the same as intended.

If you don't care about that, AppleWorks is fine, else right now you need Office.

But SEND your stuff using PDF.


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 12, 2001)

I;ve seen people who are anal about that though.
If they tell you send an M$ word file and you send something else, even though it might be a PDF they will bitch and complain and lower your grade...

I would not want a prof like that   We would have serious probs


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## RacerX (Oct 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by mindbend _
> *Someone complained about an "Acrobat" approach to the Office suite. There are in fact "viewers" for virtually all Office products . These are free and downloadable from Microsoft. Problem solved. *



Hold on one moment please. I do believe we are on a Mac forum, and the only time a "Problem" is "solved" is when there is a Mac solution. I don't want to use Office, so I can have free viewers if I move to Windows? Where is the solution in that? I work with publications firms that live buy QuarkXPress (which is too expensive to begin with), and need to (from time to time) open Word formated docs. If there is a way I can get them a viewer for free, I would surely like to here about it. The only alternative you have proposed is either get Office (at about $500) or a PC for one of the free readers (at least $500, and not counting getting it to talk with an all Mac network).

Office offers NO features that can not be found in QuarkXPress, and Office can't do what QuarkXPress does, so it is an expensive item to have taking up disk space and collecting dust in a closet. At least I'm not forced to  use a different platform in order to read pdf files. I can read them on almost every OS I can think of. I can't see the same about Word (even with Star Office and Abi Word being out there). The overall problem again becomes using a format owned by Microsoft.

If you can find viewer for Word and Excel for Mac on Microsoft's site, I would love to know where they are.


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## mindbend (Oct 12, 2001)

My bad, I think I goofed on the viewers thing. As a content provider, I'm used to providing free viewers on our CD-ROMs, I forgot that no such thing exists for the Macs AFAIK.

I still stand by my position that life is just easier if you have access to a version of Office.


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## RacerX (Oct 12, 2001)

> _Originally posted by AdmiralAK _
> *Any examples ? (I am sure netscape is a culprit too but I seem to see more M$ than netscape) *



The ratio in more like 50:1, but yes both have done it. An early example would be MULTICOL and SPACER (which I believe became part of HTML 4) that were not in HTML 3.2 or use by IE in early versions. But IE was worse in the amount they added, but it was the same idea they had with Java. In that case they made a Java clone called Visual J++ that would ONLY run on Windows systems (which defeats the purpose of having Java which was a platform independent application environment). Which all shows that Microsoft has a long history of trying to take over the market in any way possible. In the end the only real solution is to strictly enforce an open standard on Microsoft products so that alternatives can be used or (as sithious said) say as Microsoft-free as possible.


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## AdmiralAK (Oct 12, 2001)

lol I only have three things M$ on my computer (Not counting my OS facination and VPC of course ;p)
1) Office 2001 ( Provided by employer, seldomly used)
2) MSN messenger (use it once in a blue moon...got it cause friends have it and they are never online... long live yahoo! -- now if they only made a complete mac client!)
3) Internet Exploder (used to beta test my web pages)

This is as M$ free as I can be for now... at least till open standards come in 

Admiral


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## ae77 (Oct 12, 2001)

I use Tex-Edit Plus. Fits my need.

$500 for a word processor is a joke.


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## karavite (Oct 12, 2001)

ae has a good point, and if you are like me and can't type (or spell?) Casady and Green have Grammarian for OS X with Spell Checker OS X to follow - these are fantastic and low cost apps that serve as universal grammar/spell checkers that work with any and all open applications. With Tex Edit these apps can give most people everything they need in a word processor. In fact, I relied on Spell Checker when using Word in OS 9. I never realized how much MS's thesaurus sucked until I compared it with Spell Checkers. Grammarian is actually quite useful (has multiple settings for writing style and rules) and gives meaningful edits and suggestions - not just "excessive use of passive voice - consider rewriting..." - the most common Word grammar check message.

If only we could find a freeware version of an obnoxious animated assistant and an incredibly sloppy table/imaging handling capabilites... then Tex Edit could have the full capabilities of Word!


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## Leonis (Oct 13, 2001)

Now I decide to stick with Word 98.....run it under Classic. I found out there will be couple of apps that I use will NEVER be ported to OSX....so Classic....I still have to stick with you.....

BTW...I will get AppleWorks 6 from my dad anyway. I can type my resume and such with it. And only will use Word 98 when someone send me complex word documents....


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## Jim Paradise (Oct 13, 2001)

I've found AppleWorks 6.2.1 to have *many* hideous bugs that prevent it from being useable for me in X.     And that's too bad because I *need* AppleWorks to work and I like it!  Come on, Apple!!  *grrr*
(Oh, and if you want to know what the bugs are...  there's a forum in here where I posted the most serious bugs...  *sigh*)


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## Leonis (Nov 19, 2001)

Right....AppleWorks is evil  

I would rather have Word 98 run under Classic than running AW natively....


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## neutrino23 (Nov 19, 2001)

Use whatever you like to make documents then save them as PDF files. If you get an ms document you can almost always find a translator. MacLink plus is cheaper than buying office. I refuse to send ms formatted documents unless the recipient absolutely requires it. I think it is wrong to use proprietary formats like that.


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## edX (Nov 20, 2001)

I agree with the idea of buying maclinkplus before buying office. The way apple has cut back on translators over the years is saddening. Used to be macwrite pro came with a maclink setup that translated everything but the most recent versions of other wp's. Now appleworks doesn't even translate macwrite pro (of which I have hundreds of docs created in). I also agree with the idea of avoiding the most recent 6.2.1 version of appleworks. Use any version before that. The bugs are too much. Still praying I will wake up and find the update to fix them available. 
But the idea of buying a M$ product to make things "nicer" or to "fit" with the rest of the "real" world is appalling to me!! Going along with the nazi's made things easier. Not speaking up against apartheid was a way to fit in. Buying M$ is just plain wrong. So long as we continue to support them they will continue to dictate to us what we can and cannot have. When people start demanding something better by casting their economic vote ($$$) then they will listen to us, rather than us to them. Are we mac users because we want to fit in? I would love to work in a place where that was true. Spend your money on other things than Bill Gates summer home.


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## kcmac (Nov 20, 2001)

First and foremost, I would rather use a mac. To do this as seamlessly as possible in an all PC environment, I depend on Office. I have found it not worth the hassle to use 2 0r 3 apps to read, translate or convert documents from text, rtf, .doc, etc. just so I can "avoid" Microsoft.  And don't get me started on pdf. I think it stinks. The interface is not friendly at all. Sure it is cross platform but come on! JMHO.

If I didn't work so much with the PC world would I use Office? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely wouldn't use Powerpoint. (I like iMovie and other slide show apps). Wouldn't use Excel. I would still use Entourage...in my opinion a very solid email app. And if it was up to me, I would use text or rtf format only. I love Text Edit and think Okito Composer has a lot of promise.


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## brachiator (Nov 20, 2001)

I really like Office:mac, mostly using Word and Entourage.  Good and solid.

But, that said I agree absolutely that proprietary formats suck and that MS and the rest of them should be forced to provide free readers.  That would take care of the occasional recipient or other platform reader who, when she gets a .doc file, REALLY needs to read it.  Adobe went the right way on this -- and look how many government site licenses they must have sold... .pdf is the defacto gov't standard (at least for the feds).  I try to send out .pdfs as much as I can, so long as I don't need work back from the recipient.  And any settlement to the MS suit that doesn't require free readers for all platforms is a joke (for other reasons too...)

Any university or prof who demands .docs should be ashamed, fired, and strung up (or at least have to buy laptops and Office and punitive damages to all students!) ;-)

Although, here in my dept. at Berkeley we are just starting a laptop final exam pilot program -- yes a *pilot* program, for god's sake, at Berkeley.  Why this school is so backwards in IS and advanced in research is an administrative shame.  Anyway, the pilot software runs only in windows -- and I think that it somehow won't run in an emulated environment... so my X and Linux pals are out of luck (although if we could get around it, we could run in emulated Windows and have access to all our notes!  not that we would, but it would be great to have the capability..)

end digression, I guess. ;-)


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## genghiscohen (Nov 21, 2001)

I had a very amusing experience just the other day.  A friend sent me a M$ .doc file.  Word for OS X couldn't open it.  Tried and tried, just got a mysterious "file cannot be opened" message.  Show Info said that it was in fact a M$ Word file.
So I tried AW 6.2.1, and it opened right up!     
Still, I do plan to obtain Office v.X.  I have gotten a lot of use out of Office: mac 2001, and the X version is a definite improvement.
Not worth $500, but it does offer a good many interesting features.  My personal fav is the non-contiguous selection (highlighting) capability.  Very handy for editing documents.
This is of course purely a personal decision.  The vast majority of the work (as opposed to play) that I do on my iMac is word processing.  It's too bad that WordPerfect development has ended, and I'm looking forward to OpenOffice for OS X, but Office v.X is here now.
But if you just want to be able to read the occasional .doc, stick with AW and/or MacLinkPlus.


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## Leonis (Nov 21, 2001)

I guess the cheapest solution to me right now is to continue using Word 98 under Classic 

Some small apps that I am using now will never go carbon....so running Classic seems to be my daily activity.

BTW...gimme native Photoshop and FCP!!!!!


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## Leonis (Nov 24, 2001)

You know....I just gave Appleworks another try....used it for two days...actually now not as bad as when I first used it....

ugh...I am such an ass


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## solrac (Nov 24, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Leonis _
> *I have Office 98 (got it from a big clearence sales) ... I already paid a big chunk of money on my OSX compliant 3D apps....and once Illustrator, Photoshop, AfterEffects go native all my remaining cash will be going for the upgrade and I will have nothing left for the Office X upgrade.*



Ok dude... first of all, the ONLY real reason to get Office is to be compatible with the 100 billion people that will send you an excel file or a word document.

Microsoft doesn't make money by selling superior or super-advanced products. They make money by making you conform to everyone else because they already sold their shit to everyone else. You almost have to get Office v.X. Unless you tell every person who emails you excel, word, or powerpoint to convert the file to something else, if they even know how.

Second.... it seems like you're using your last drops of cash buying software. What's wrong with you???? Download that shit for free!! Ever heard of hotline? Ever heard of warez, and piracy?

Shit, if you are gonna be broke after buying software, don't buy it. Download it. If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't be able to eat. Actually I would probably just work in a retail or fast food store. I would have never had the chance to learn web design.

If you are extremely morally and ethically inclined to buy all your software, then at least download Office v.X for free. Buy everything else. But you are only using Office v.X to convert files. You are not using it for productivity. Microsoft has a ONE BILLION dollar ad campaign for Windows XP, and they lose $80 on every XBOX that they sell, just to make it competitively priced and make money on games later. Trust me, they can afford your free download of office v.X.

Why don't you download all your software for free, and when you turn a PROFIT using the software, then just go buy it. I don't mean to start a whole piracy argument here, but you seem like you're broke because of all your software purchases and that makes me feel bad for you.

ok laterz,
-solrac-

p.s. I've been doing web design for 2 years and I have never made enough money to buy the software I use. Only enough money for food, rent, hardware, and some entertainment. Not even enough money for taxes!!! Shit, I'm a software pirate AND I don't pay taxes. But I can't afford to! I didn't even have a car for a year!!!


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## Leonis (Nov 28, 2001)

I know what you mean...

I am trying to be a good 'citizen' on this planet 

I pay for software but ONLY for those that I think that worth my dough.....

There are too many crapware out there that should be free instead of charging user thousands of dollars


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## karavite (Nov 28, 2001)

Just a thought. Most univeristy and colleges have special pricing on software. I bought 3 versions of Office for PC and Mac and never paid more than $35 each, plus huge discounts on anything you can imagine - Director, DreamWeaver, Photoshop... 

Maybe registering for a single class (which probably costs less than Office at retail!) will allow some people to take advantage of low software prices if their school offers them - or make friends with a student who can buy them for you though this is expressly forbidden by these agreements, but come on - you have to live with a little danger!


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## Leonis (Nov 28, 2001)

Yeap...many of apps I have were purchase when I was a full time or part time student. Big saving 

Even now I am not a student but I have so many cousins I can 'use' to help me to grab apps I want.

However, the two universities in Vancouver doesn't have that kind of huge discount on M$ products. Office X costs $300 CDN. It's a lot cheaper than the "regular" version but still way too expensive compare to other who can get it for $5 or $10....

I wish I could know the people who attend the University that has that $10 Academic Office X deal


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

I don't know if they will deal with canadian students or not but 

http://creationengine.com/

offers educational software for those whose universities don't carry them. I have bought quite a few of my programs from them. they are usually a little behind in current releases so be sure you know what version you want when ordering from them. I checked and they don't seem to have officeX yet. It will probably take a few weeks at least. (istill don't condone its use but if anybody really wants it...) they used to be close to my school so i just went in and bought at their office but I have also emailed them a jpeg scan of my student id and had them mail me stuff i'm in no hurry for. I hope to spend a little more money with them before I graduate as a sort of graduation present to myself. They carry a great selection of graphics/multimedia programs. Keep in mind that educational prices are actually set by the software publiher. Some companies just don't offer it. some, like apple, insist you deal directly with them for your discount. Others knock the price way down (like adobe) and others just make it about the price of an upgrade or slightly higher. there are few that don't make it much different from retail and you might actually find them cheaper at a discount web site with free shipping and/or no tax. It's a good place to check out when you know what you want if you are a student or know one who would purchase for you.


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

I just got the new aw 6.2.2. apple has fixed the printing problem and they claim it will now open word documents. If this is so, then they must have been reading this insanely long thread. I don't have any word docs to try this with (i don't want cooties) but sounds like some of you might be jumping up and down with joy if it's true and leonis can stop worrying about buying 'that other program'. Of course it seems like he made that decision already. I would also bet he wouldn't tell us if he did after all that's been said.


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## Aussie John (Nov 29, 2001)

so will Appleworks  (latest) open both word and excel files?

 also will it write to word format?


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## edX (Nov 29, 2001)

aw 6.2.2 lists save translators for word and excel in the following versions - 
excel - mac 5 & 98, win 5 & 97,2000
word - mac 6 & 98, win 6,95 & 98,2000

again I have no m$ docs to try and test what it will open. hopefully someone else will report


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## Hypernate (Dec 2, 2001)

As much as I hate Microsoft and Office etc. I am forced to buy a copy of Office 2001 when I buy my iMac. ATM I still only have my awful wintel piece-a-sh!t, but yeah. 

For school, I have teachers who MAKE me give files in, on pc formatted disks in Word *.doc format.

This really will be interesting with a macintosh without a floppy drive and, well, yeah. I suppose I'll have to hand it in on either a CD (formatted to Windows if I can through Mac OS X) or buy a USB disk drive.

Anyway, for the Office, I have to buy it, but fortunately, Microsoft is giving us students a huge discount (It's still overpriced!).

Rather than AU$999 for the full Office 2001, they'll sell it to us for AU$299.

Still a rip off...


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## karavite (Dec 2, 2001)

Hi Hypernate - That's absurd that you have to go through all that to hand in an assignment - even if you used nothing but a PC.  Also, a student price of $300 for Word or Office is riduculous! Maybe you should remind your school that there is this amazing new medium called email that not only lets you send messages to people, but attach files as well. Disks? That is so Y1K man! Sneaker net.

However, more often than not, teachers  and students have difficulty with attachments, and I have heard of people being given incompletes or being marked down for handing in assignments "late" due to corrupt files, disks, deleted messages... 

I think that the demand for certain file types rests mainly on peoples inability to understand attachments, file types, "Save as," "import," file extensions (for example a Mac user converting a AppleWorks file to Word but failing to add a ".doc" and/or the receivers inability to use the Word file menu to open a doc rather than double click on the file) and every other potential screw up you could imagine. 

I suppose one could say this all rests on people being computer illiterate, but I always wondered why Apple didn't create a killer app *as part of the OS* that would go much further to solve this problem that repeatedly results in people who don't know better to blame the Mac as being "incompatible." I know there are a million ways to handle this - my argument is that novice Mac and PC users just don't get it and many just never will get it (including teachers and school adminstrators). I think file conversion could be handled more transparently and/or without so much user knowledge and understanding of all the afore mentioned attributes of managing files. My basic argument is that people don't have to be registered mechanics to drive a car, so why should they be hackers to send a text file! MS banks on making this difficult - their primary interest is to lock people in to using their apps and ease of use is always a secondary concern. Apple made its mark and continues to make its mark on ease of use.

Any way, I am babbling. I just think your school is being unfair and should accept plain old paper until they get their act together. If you wanted to be a real radical, maybe you could drop a virus infected disk off to your teacher some day - then they would institute a new policy where teachers have to run a virus scan on every assignment, and of course that would be too difficult for most teachers and/or they would find it was too much hassle and then go back to accepting paper only  - not that I would ever recommend or do such a thing.


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## noei24 (Jan 30, 2002)

Recently, I installed AppleWorks 6.1.2 (the full retail version) on a friend's iMac (333MHz Tray-Load running Mac OS 9.0.4). And removed AppleWorks 5 from the computer after the installation. For some unknown reason, AppleWorks was unable to open PC Word and Excel documents; the files just would not show up in the directory window even with File Type and File Format set to All.

I'm puzzled because AppleWorks 6.1.2 works fine on my iMac (350MHz Slot-Load running Mac OS 9.0.4) at work. Did I miss something? Is there something I can do to make AppleWorks' file translation feature work?

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.  


P.S. Several postings argued against the need to spend money on PowerPoint. Try Viewer, a freeware PowerPoint viewer, at this URL -- http://piau.mac.tucows.com/files/powerptview.hqx


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## genghiscohen (Jan 30, 2002)

Perhaps the AW 5 preferences are still on your friends machine?


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## edX (Jan 30, 2002)

testuser is right, you need 6.2.2 to translate word and excel. also to get rid of all sorts of bugs!!


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