# iTunes 5 - What would you like to see?



## jonparadise (Jul 1, 2005)

With rumours flying around that the 5G iPods will be released at the same time as an iTunes 5, it occurred to me I wasn't really sure what could be added to iTunes to make it any more useful to me. It organises my music, thats about it!

Any of you guys got any things you'd like to see implemented or are you happy as is?


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## CreativeEye (Jul 1, 2005)

itms bookmarks. not just using the 'shopping cart' method - but real safari type bookmarking of pages...

also - amazon style 'page you made' in itms...

but thats about it really! - itunes is music management / a jukebox... i wouldnt want to see it become bloatware with features that move it away from its original purpose...


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## MrNivit1 (Jul 1, 2005)

audio plugins?  Like the ones found in Audion (still use it sometimes).  Not exactly essential, but neat to have none the less.


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## fjdouse (Jul 1, 2005)

The ability turn off Podcasts

More localised content

The ability to use other players than an iPod, i.e. export songs to a directory etc. on a Mass Storage device

Ogg Vorbis support as standard


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## cfleck (Jul 1, 2005)

The ability to assign more than one genre to a song!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jul 1, 2005)

The 5G iPods just came out...


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## jonparadise (Jul 1, 2005)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> The 5G iPods just came out...



Apparently not, Apple are calling them '4G with colour screens'.


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## fjdouse (Jul 1, 2005)

What am I looking at?  I just see photo iPods, is that just the standard iPod now? When they can play movies as standard, I'll think about it


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## Captain Code (Jul 1, 2005)

If the iTMovieS is ever going to come out, I'd bet iTunes 5 would be launched with it.


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## Mikuro (Jul 1, 2005)

 More advanced Smart Playlists, that allow boolean logic.

 The ability to edit a track's data in iTunes WITHOUT iTunes writing the new data to the file. I'd rather have it stored in iTunes' own database. It makes backing up a huge pain the way it is, because I there are all these liiittle changes in this biiiig files, so what can I do? Either I back up my entire music collection AGAIN (that's like 10-15 CDs), or I lose all the changed I've made to my metadata. I'd like an option to have it only write metadata to the files when you specifically tell it to. iTunes already stores a lot of metadata in its own database as it is, like play count, rating, etc.

 An option to add my OWN tags to files. There are no limits on what tags you can put in an mp3. Give me the ability to make my own tag, and specify its name and data type. And, of course, I'd need to be able to display these custom tags in the main song list and use them in Smart Playlists.

 Smarter Party Shuffle, please! Whenever I turn the "play higher rated songs more often" option on, its selection quality goes straight to hell. I get the same track listed 2-5 times in my 15-song playlist! Sheesh! It should have a rule (at least as an option), to never have the same track repeated twice in the same visible list. 

 I'd also like to be able to re-order randomly-ordered playlists the same way I can in Party Shuffle. There's really no reason this shouldn't be possible. The advent of Party Shuffle made the absence of this feature much, much less annoying, but it still ought to be there.

 Fix the weird behavior of dragging the active track in Party Shuffle. As it is, there's NO WAY to move it later in the sequence. If you drag it, it just pushes all the tracks you dragged it over onto the other side! Aaaah! That's totally unintuitive and not helpful at all.

 The ability to MANAGE the authorized computers attached to an iTMS account. The whole "be sure to de-authorize your computer before re-initialize your disk" business is bullshit. The only time I reinitialize my disk is when I can't boot, so _how the heck am I supposed to de-authorize it?!?!?_ I filled up my entire account this way. Sure, you can email Apple Support and get them to fix it (which I did), but why should you need to? You should be able to at least SEE the list of authorized machines, if not edit it manually. I mean, for all I know someone has authorized their machine behind my back.

 Options to define how iTunes auto-names/sorts files. I hate the way it does it as it is, so I do all my sorting myself, but that's more of a hassle than it should be, and it's just simpler if the track data and file names are always in sync, which is just too hard to manage manually all the time.

 The ability to run visualizers as desktop backgrounds.  I can do it with screensavers (with the help of Backlight 2), so why not iTunes visualizers?


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## RGrphc2 (Jul 1, 2005)

Multiple Library's

Itunes-movie store.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Jul 1, 2005)

jonparadise said:
			
		

> Apparently not, Apple are calling them '4G with colour screens'.



Where do they say this?


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## Stridder44 (Jul 1, 2005)

Smart Visualizations! I know this doesn't sound like much but it's something I've been wanting for quite a time


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## jonparadise (Jul 1, 2005)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Where do they say this?



Here


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## Shookster (Jul 1, 2005)

Stridder44 said:
			
		

> Smart Visualizations! I know this doesn't sound like much but it's something I've been wanting for quite a time



Yeah, the visualisations have always been a secondary feature in iTunes. In WMP, you can tell how important they are because they take up such a massive amount of the window. I personally think they're gimmicky though.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 1, 2005)

but in WMP they are awful. i want an itunes viz screensaver  - i rarely use the vis as i can't do anything else while "vizzing", and i hate it when the screensaver (colours, fluid etc) doesn't respond to the music. itunes viz screensaver.

also - new, core image, full openGL visualizer. blow people away with it.

Browse: pick what category of tag to browse - not just genre, arstist, album.


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## HomunQlus (Jul 1, 2005)

Maybe the next version will be *4.10* ?


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## Mikuro (Jul 1, 2005)

HomunQlus said:
			
		

> Maybe the next version will be *4.10* ?


4.10 < 4.9

But that doesn't stop some companies from using that kind of numbering system. And losing customers by doing so, too. I didn't upgrade Snak for many months because I thought I was looking at an outdated version of the web site with an older version than I had. I even started looking into alternatives because I thought development had died (and reverted!).

I am strongly in favor of numbering systems that make proper mathematical sense.

But then again, I overreact to a lot of little things like that. And of course it doesn't mean Apple wouldn't name it 4.10. It just means I'd bitch about it a lot if they did.


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## Pengu (Jul 1, 2005)

how is 10 less than 9? 

it doesn't say 4.1, it says 4.10.

however. not many products have their first point number go above 9, for confusion reasons.

i mean. what if we had 10.3.10?

then you'd have people who can't tell the differnce between 10 and one getting confused.


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## Captain Code (Jul 1, 2005)

In math 4.10 would be the same as 4.1 which is less than 4.9.  However, the period is not used as a decimal place but rather to separate major and minor version numbers.  

4.10 signifies it's major version 4 and minor version 10.  Minor versions being minor tweaks and enhancements and major being anything that would be a huge change to the application.


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## RGrphc2 (Jul 1, 2005)

So if anything it will be iTunes 4.9.5.  I think we are a little off topic now.


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## Reality (Jul 1, 2005)

I would like the ability to stream and listen to the playlist on other people's iTunes from across the net. You know, just with people your buddies with or something. Then if they say they are listening to a really cool song you should hear, you can stream and listen to it. Just like you would with internet radio.


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## fryke (Jul 2, 2005)

That _was_ a feature once. Had to be removed. Because people were abusing iTunes as a P2P tool with that.


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## AdmiralAK (Jul 2, 2005)

MP3Pro and OGG support
More kinds of gendres predefined (all my greek music fits into "ethnic"  but obviously there are other subcategories  )


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 2, 2005)

you_ can _make your own genre's, and there is a good all round set of 'starter' genres.

add sub-genres to ethnic, and you'll have to put things in like EmoCore and Hard Trance etc for all the anal emo kids and the rest of 'em

i only really use custom genre's, and once it's added, it's recognised like any other genre.


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## Stridder44 (Jul 2, 2005)

Oh God please don't start that whole "4.10!? THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE! ERROR! NUMBERS CANNOT GO PAST 9 DERKA DERKA!" It's like 10.3.9 all over again...


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## Stridder44 (Jul 2, 2005)

Lt Major Burns said:
			
		

> ...and you'll have to put things in like EmoCore and Hard Trance etc for all the anal emo kids and the rest of 'em...



::ha::::ha::::ha::::ha::::ha::::ha::


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## Browni (Jul 2, 2005)

Strider: Your sig is quite true!


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## HomunQlus (Jul 2, 2005)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> In math 4.10 would be the same as 4.1 which is less than 4.9.  However, the period is not used as a decimal place but rather to separate major and minor version numbers.
> 
> 4.10 signifies it's major version 4 and minor version 10.  Minor versions being minor tweaks and enhancements and major being anything that would be a huge change to the application.



Since when is 10 less than 9?

I did not mean 4.1.0, I meant 4.10

I just came across that thought because GNOME is doing this as well... When GNOME 2.8 came out, I thought the next version is 3.0, but they released 2.10. Which is still better than 2.1 (which was a Beta of 2.2).


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 2, 2005)

because, from a mathematical POV, there is only one decimal. ever. all numbers after that are the fraction of. a zero at the end makes no difference, just like a zero before an integer before the decimal.

00100 is still one hundred, like 100 and 0100

3.765 is the same as 3.76500 and 3.76500000000000000000

so, in a calculator, 4.9 is a higher number than 4.10, which is actually just 4.1.

.10 is a daft number, made up by the kind of people who come up with the .dll - a really good, logical idea.


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## Stridder44 (Jul 2, 2005)

.....


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## Mikuro (Jul 2, 2005)

I guess it depends on whether you consider each part of a version number to be its OWN number, or the entire version number as ONE number. 

If it's supposed to be read as 2 or 3 different numbers, then 4.10 makes sense. But then they just shouldn't be using decimal points. Use slashes or dashes or colons or apostrophes or anything else. And it _certainly_ shouldn't be pronounced as "x-point-y", which is the standard pronunciation. You also shouldn't jump over decimal numbers in that case, which is routinely done to show greater differences between versions. e.g., Apple went from 8.1 to 8.5. So then the next version of iTunes may as well be be version 7.

OTOH, if it's one solid number, then logically there should never be more than ONE decimal point, since that's redundant at best. 10.3.9 = 10.39. But I always thought the second point was there simply to improve readability. And I still think that makes the best sense, personally.

There are very well-established standards when it comes to counting. And these standards say that 4.10 = 4.1 = 4.10000000... < 4.9.

If it must be dragged beyond 4.9, then I'd rather they go the ultra-nerdy route, and call it 4.A. No reason the version numbers can't be read in hex. ::ha:: Realistically, 4.9.1 makes the best sense. Or maybe 4.91.0 (same thing!).

I remember having a little argument with my brother a decade or so ago, because he kept calling Glider 4.09 "Glider four-point-nine". He said it was the same thing. Being a crotchety old nitpicker even at such a young age, I just couldn't let it go. 



So as not to be criticized TOO heavily for taking this thread wildly off topic, I have some more features I'd like to see in iTunes 5:

 Full QT video support. While I still sort of feel that the integration of a video player in iTunes is an ill-conceived concept, it's there, so why should it be artificially crippled? Apple still offers no free full-screen media player, which is utterly ridiculous. There's no reason iTunes couldn't play all QT content. In fact, they must have gone out of their way to prevent it. Go figure.

 Greater range of volume control. It's important to keep the volume of my music balanced properly with the volume of other apps. Usually I want my music to be the dominating sound. But iTunes' current max volume isn't high enough. I can use the equalizer's preamp feature to boost it a little, but even that doesn't give me quite the range I'd like. The only perfect solution I've found is to use Audio Hijack Pro to reduce other apps' (mainly Safari's) volumes. I guess the proper solution is to increase the range of the preamp rather than the main volume. Whatever, as long as it gets the job done.

 A simple backup/restore method. I can burn MP3-CDs, which I've done, but then it renames all my files and loses my directory structure. It's amazing what a pain in the butt it is to do something so simple.

 Speed adjusting controls. QuickTime has always had the ability to play any content at any speed, and QuickTime 7 takes this one step further by dynamically adjusting the audio so you don't get chipmunk-pitched voices when you play stuff at double or triple speed (note: for some reason, this doesn't work with MPEGs, although it does work with mp3 audio in other file wrappers, like AVIs). I'd love to see this feature added to iTunes. It should barely take any effort, really, since iTunes already uses QuickTime for playback, IINM.

 Built-in remote controls. Currently you need to use third-party utilities to get system-wide control of iTunes. Some of them are quite good, but iTunes really ought to have beefier features built in. Global keyboard shortcuts, an ultra-mini control window, and maybe a menu extra would be good.

 Skins. Maybe. I've never been crazy about the idea of skins, but a lot of people go wild for 'em.

 And most of all, a single, unified, global iTMS. I know, never gonna happen. But I can _dream_, can't I?


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## Pengu (Jul 2, 2005)

ok. quite simply. as it was stated. this is version numbers. NOT maths. clear and simple.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 3, 2005)

an _immense_ tanget, considering the title, unless we would all like to see 4.10.11.67

i want NO new features - my view is, with video, podcasts, iTMS, party shuffle, radio etc it;s is already FAR too bloated. 

instead, i want existing features improved and expanded. 
tagging, for example, Visualisations, browsing options, quicker code, more intelligent organising (both folder and interface), quicker encoding into more formats,


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## Browni (Jul 3, 2005)

Major, I disagree, iTMS was arguably the best thing that has happened to Apple in quite a while, it was best to integrate it with iTunes, if you don't like it  turn it off, as for Radio, it may not be used by every one, i know i use it quite a lot. Video in the iTMS, well its another enhancement. of iTMS. Plus the only reason it is in there is because it is not possible to play a quick time movie full screen unless you have pro, silly idea personally. Podcasts, are in my view just and extension of RSS for audio, plus its a thing that is going around the world right now, so it made sense for Apple to go with the flow. I agree that a major part of software development is the advancement of existing features as well as adding new ones, but there is only so far you can go on your own. Thats what the software is open source. If you want to add a new browsing feature, I'm sure that it can be done in either code or script, just a matter of seeing how. 

(sorry if this seems like a rant, just voicing my point of view)


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## Mikuro (Jul 3, 2005)

Still more changes I'd like to see:

 A rewrite in Cocoa. As it stands, iTunes has a few "unnatural" little quirks that come from it's Carbon/Classic heritage. For example, click-through on the close/minimize/maximize buttons often doesn't work (instead, it just activates the window). Now, I hate click-through with a fiery vengeance, and wish it were done away with all across the board, but since Apple decided to go with it, it should be consistently implemented.

 Less glitz, more performance. The little scrolling marquee does nothing but steal processor cycles, especially since iTunes is going to be operating in the background most of the time. iTunes uses far more processor time than an mp3 player really needs to. Some display options would be nice.

 Better skip protection. I don't know why, but iTunes skips in OS X now and then. It's not as bad as QuickTime Player, but it's still a problem. The strange thing is that in OS 9, this NEVER happened  even when the entire system crashed, iTunes would continue playing like a champ (until the end of the current song). The OS 9 version also used less CPU time. Why can't the OS X version be like that? This would probably require some pretty fundamental tweaking, but darnit, it's worth it.

 Visualizer presets. You can currently set equalizer presets on a track-by-track basis, so why not visualizers, too? I like lots of different kinds of music, and no visualizer is really good with ALL of them. For piano and jazz, I like Fountain Music (try it! It's great!), but for pop, Fountain's not so great. It'd also be nice to have iTunes optionally automatically change visualizers randomly at each track (or maybe even at random intervals during tracks).

 Which reminds me: I want better visualizers! The funkadelic iTunes visualizer is _so_ 90s.  Let's see some fancy visualizers that match the coolness of the latest screensavers.

 Better-quality iTMS downloads. 128kbps AAC is pretty darn good, don't get me wrong, but currently they're still only putting out stereo tracks (unless they changed this since the introduction of the iTMS). 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound would be nice, and it's definitely within the capabilities of the AAC file format. An option to download lossless files would be cool, too. After all, Apple designed their own lossless codec for iTunes; why not USE it?



			
				Pengu said:
			
		

> ok. quite simply. as it was stated. this is version numbers. NOT maths. clear and simple.


And...there's a difference? Says who? Where did this numbering convention come from if not math? It looks like a number and it sounds like a number, so I say it's a number! Not two or three. And that's the last I'm going to say on the matter (promise!  )


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## fryke (Jul 3, 2005)

Hm. Apropos numbers and maths. 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound is 5 PLUS 1 and 7 PLUS 1 surround sound. *cough*... They wanted to make _that_ sound like a version number!

And back to the 4.10 > 4.1 thing: If after 4 comes 4.1, then after 4.9 should be 4.9.1.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 4, 2005)

Browni said:
			
		

> Major, I disagree, iTMS was arguably the best thing that has happened to Apple in quite a while, it was best to integrate it with iTunes, if you don't like it turn it off, as for Radio, it may not be used by every one, i know i use it quite a lot. Video in the iTMS, well its another enhancement. of iTMS. Plus the only reason it is in there is because it is not possible to play a quick time movie full screen unless you have pro, silly idea personally. Podcasts, are in my view just and extension of RSS for audio, plus its a thing that is going around the world right now, so it made sense for Apple to go with the flow. I agree that a major part of software development is the advancement of existing features as well as adding new ones, but there is only so far you can go on your own. Thats what the software is open source. If you want to add a new browsing feature, I'm sure that it can be done in either code or script, just a matter of seeing how.
> 
> (sorry if this seems like a rant, just voicing my point of view)


 
i'm not saying i don't like the iTMS, merely stating that, IMO the basic MP3 playing and organising capabilities are being shunned from improvement by all this adding of major new, almost unrelated features.  the video thing needs to be seperate from iTunes. you wouldn't use your dvd player for playing cds - you'd use your cd player, so why use itunes for video - i want, in iLife '06, an app, like iPhoto and iTunes, dedicated to video. it's the massively lacking element in MacOS. sure you _can _use VLC or similar, but it's not apple is it? if there was a way of effectivley ripping my dvd library to my computer (decent image quality, multichannel encoding and tagging), then maybe i wouldn't use my dvds any more, like my cd library has become sort of redundant since adopting itunes. i'd use iVideo or whatever. it shouldn't be part of my music library. it has _always_ felt awkward.


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## gphillipk (Jul 4, 2005)

How about establishing a universal iTMS? Or removing the restrictions in place about where you can purchase your music from. I'm in a part of the world where Apple would never establish an iTMS.


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## HomunQlus (Jul 4, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Hm. Apropos numbers and maths. 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound is 5 PLUS 1 and 7 PLUS 1 surround sound. *cough*... They wanted to make _that_ sound like a version number!
> 
> And back to the 4.10 > 4.1 thing: If after 4 comes 4.1, then after 4.9 should be 4.9.1.



That would cascade forever... How does this look: 4.9.9.9.1   

Then 5.0 is better. But when this major version jump comes, we want to see quite something new.


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## Veljo (Jul 4, 2005)

It's only a minor thing, but one thing I always found strange is how the iTunes window isn't smooth (have a look at the jagged rounded corners...eww). I do agree it needs more optimization more than anything...AND AN ITUNES MUSIC STORE IN AUSTRALIA FOR GODS SAKE! How long has it been?!

Pretty much everything I want has been said already. I like the idea of skins too.


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## Stridder44 (Jul 4, 2005)

Are you guys actually arguing over whether iTunes can go beyond 4.9?? Hm, that's not childish...I mean God forbid that Apple do something crazy like 4.10 or something...

ANYWAY I agree Mikuro. I think it needs to be rewritten and hopefully some better visuals!


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## HomunQlus (Jul 5, 2005)

OK, here's what I'd love to see in iTunes 5:

The Visualizer Thing - To be able to see the visualizer in fullscreen on a second monitor (multi-monitor support).


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## owaters (Jul 6, 2005)

All I would like to see is the ability to make track changes seamless, no pause whatsoever. I have loads of Mix CD's, once they are on itunes, with cross fade completely off the mixes are still no seamless. However, if they are played directly off a CD in iTunes they are fine.

APPLE PLEASE FIX THE PAUSE :O)


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## fryke (Jul 6, 2005)

I second that, owaters. Also on the iPod. I think it's certainly not necessary for _any_ reason. But it kills (well, disturbs) those tracks that should stick to the next one...


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 6, 2005)

winamp, for years (since 2.7ish) has had buffering options, to completely buffer in the next track, even on shuffle.  it's always been really nice, and yet iTunes doesn't do it. also, it skips through silence (based on a "below 20dB etc" thing) so it's even more seamless. this would be nice in 5


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## MacFreak (Jul 6, 2005)

I am hoping that ITune able download movies and tv channels without waiting for schedule to watch it. It have llittle similiar to TIVO.  I heard rumors that TIVO going to have able to download new movie released without going to movie theatre. umm..


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## MrNivit1 (Jul 7, 2005)

A way to easily proof cd playlists before burning.  What I mean is that I make a bunch of compliation/mix cds and I am picky about how one song transitions to the next.  It would be handy if I I could listen to the first and last say 30 sec or so to listen how one song transitions into the next.  This way I know how the cd will sound as an album without having to listen to the entire playlist.  I do this manually now, but it would be nice to automate this.

Also, a way to give feedback when building a playlist about when the list is close or above the time limit for an audio CD without needing to switch to the playlist to see how long it is.  Would be handy.


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## symphonix (Jul 7, 2005)

Aside from seeing the ITMS opened in Australia, I couldn't think of anything worthwhile that I'd add to iTunes 5. Perhaps this is a mark of really good software, you really have to struggle to work out how to improve it ... and end up just saying "Themes".



			
				MrNivit1 said:
			
		

> Also, a way to give feedback when building a playlist about when the list is close or above the time limit for an audio CD without needing to switch to the playlist to see how long it is. Would be handy.



Just double click the playlist in the sources pane, and it opens the playlist in a new window. You can then drag things from your library to your playlist and drop them into any position, and see instantly how much time/space you're using. :-D


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## MrNivit1 (Jul 7, 2005)

symphonix said:
			
		

> Just double click the playlist in the sources pane, and it opens the playlist in a new window. You can then drag things from your library to your playlist and drop them into any position, and see instantly how much time/space you're using. :-D



Oh neat! Thanks didn't know that... learn somethin' new everyday.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 8, 2005)

i want to see them concentrating on iTUNES, not a shop, not a video shop, not cack video support (most videos don't have meta already. it's just more work), and addressing the fundamental audio aspects that were great 5 years ago, but haven't been touched since. the audio processors need overhaulling, with buffering and other aspects etc; searching, with spotlight now a reality, could become faster, more efficient; the 5 year old visualizer, designed to run on 0S9 technologies is dated now, a Core Image one would sell macs; the artwork thing needs more work - when importing a cd, if you attach artwork, it will be lost in the encoding, whereas all the rest of the meta remains - this lies more with gracenote though - the CDDB needs updating to include high-res artwork.

in general, i think they should take a look again at winamp (it's main rival, IMO) and see how that has progressed, find out why anyone would use this over iTunes, and fight back.  the MilkDrop vis, is nothing short of incredible at times - seem to predict the mood of the music and changes accordingly -it's_ always_ right. amazing.  the mini player fades to whatever opacity  (to completly transparent if you want), until you roll over it. unobtrusive, and usefull.  and just generally the host of options - _everything_ can be turned on or off, modified in someway - it's obviously the pro's choice - itunes is VERY consumer at times.


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## sirstaunch (Jul 8, 2005)

Now I got one, and haven't read right through if anyone else had suggested, but, if iTunes is playing ad I launch a DVD that iTunes would pause the song and let DVD player take over and even if it could happen with QuickTime too, woud be handy


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 8, 2005)

does this already  - it's a very nice touch.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 10, 2005)

i've just thought. iTunes 5 is VERY delayed (iPhoto 5, iMovie 5, GarageBand 2, iDVD 3 and only iTunes 4.7 was iLife 05). they must have been working very hard on this, and must be wanting the result to be impressive.

man i can't wait. i love itunes


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