# Why no upgrade prices for iWork / iLife 05 to 06?



## irg63 (Jan 10, 2006)

I switched to Macs in 2003 because of OS X which I had been watching develop since it's earliest versions and which finally wowed me when it hit Jaguar - I am very happy with OS X and have bought a considerable amount of software for the platform, from both Mac and other software houses and don't mind spending money on software, but I find it incredibly irritating when the software I have purchased is upgraded and absolutely no concesion is made to those who have already purchesed earlier versions of that software and supported its development.

Any other views or comments on this?


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## lurk (Jan 10, 2006)

Well, I think this kind of goes to the case that all macs come with OS X and some version of iLife.  So really you have the case that everybody is upgrading so there is only an upgrade price.  That doesn't work for iWork but hey that is for work right?


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## irg63 (Jan 10, 2006)

lurk said:
			
		

> Well, I think this kind of goes to the case that all macs come with OS X and some version of iLife.  So really you have the case that everybody is upgrading so there is only an upgrade price.  That doesn't work for iWork but hey that is for work right?



Not for work,... for study - but that is not the point they are really taking the mickey... as we say!  And the version of iLife doesn't come with OS X as far as I'm aware - it certainly didn't come with my copy of Tiger... It comes with the machine I believe?... And iWork came with Tiger in the form of a 30 day trial.

I only bought iWork 05 8 months ago - it is simply not right that I should have to pay nearly £60  (60GBP) again for an upgrade to software that isn't even a year old.


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## fryke (Jan 11, 2006)

Both iLife and iWork are very inexpensive for what they do. If they serve you well, you'll happily pay the price to upgrade to the newest version. If you think your current version is okay, you don't have to upgrade.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jan 11, 2006)

irg63 said:
			
		

> I only bought iWork 05 8 months ago - it is simply not right that I should have to pay nearly £60  (60GBP) again for an upgrade to software that isn't even a year old.



You don't have to do anything. There are a lot of people - for example - who still use Photoshop 6 or 7, because they haven't seen enough of an improvement in recent versions to justify upgrading. 

And let's be honest, iWork '06 is pretty crap. I wouldn't expect anyone who aleady owns '05 to shell out £60 so they can do 3D graphs in Keynote (which is about the only new feature...ok, maybe a few more )

And iLife...well, in all my life I have never seen a package that is more value for money than iLife. It blows my mind they aren't charging hundreds of dollars for it. 

It *is* frustrating to always *feel* like you're behind because they bring out new stuff so fast, but it's just a phychological thing. There was nothing wrong with your iLife/iWork yesterday, so there's no reason why you should feel any different today.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 11, 2006)

i would upgrade iLife every 2-3 years.  i'm using ilife 04.  it's _fine_


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## irg63 (Jan 11, 2006)

It's good to hear your feedback, it's just that especially as a long term subscriber to 'dotmac' it I find it really annoys me that they have introduced new stuff to iWork / iLife which means that I have to pay more to be able to profit from their improvements to something I've paid through the nose for for three years now... So, in essence my being able to fully use something else that I've been paying for is affected by my willingness to pay the as new price for it even though I've already paid for it twice in less than a year and a half


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## mdnky (Jan 11, 2006)

irg63 said:
			
		

> I only bought iWork 05 8 months ago - it is simply not right that I should have to pay nearly £60  (60GBP) again for an upgrade to software that isn't even a year old.



I just got it Dec 4th of this year (36 days ago)...how do you think I feel?  I'm sure someone else got it after me.  That's the way the cards lie in the computer world.  

It's not really that big of a deal to me.  Things get updated all the time and some of those cost a whole lot more than $79 (or 45 GBP, 427 FRF, 128 DEM, 609 SEK,  9000 JPY, 837 MXN, 65 EUR, etc. [not counting fees, taxes, or other charges during conversion]).

If it's worth it to someone to upgrade, they will.  If it's not, they won't.  I think I'll be happy with the '05 version for a while...I really didn't see anything I "have to have" out of '06 just yet.  As it is now, the only programs I use are iTunes (everyday), iPhoto (maybe once a week), and iMovie/iDvd (rarely).  iWeb would probably never be used (that's what BBEdit is for, for me at least) and I think I've opened GarageBand once so far.


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## iball (Jan 11, 2006)

I think the iWeb app is pretty neat for what it does.
But the iPhoto "homepage" needs some serious work...I guess all that work went into iWeb.
As far as dotmac, well...umm...it's nice and all, but I don't know if it's $99 nice.
If you're a heavy net user who loves updating a webpage and giving all your friends the URL (even printed on business cards) then I could see where $99 a year would come in handy.
But for the average joe?  Nah.


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## chevy (Jan 11, 2006)

I agree that iLife and .Mac should be sold together as they really operate together. But that's just my opinion.

What about a model where one pays a fixed yearly level and get for that:
iLife
.Mac
Latest system
Exclusive iTunes songs


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## ScottW (Jan 11, 2006)

I think that Apple should allow you to publish to ANY web server of your choice and not just .mac. Heck, I'd pay $99 a year just for that privilage. ha!


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2006)

You can publish yourself by exporting to HTML in iWeb, I hear. Although some features are missing then, it should basically work alright. But I agree... The ties between iLife '06 and .Mac are kinda sneaky.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 12, 2006)

the problem with .mac is that it should be free.  cut it down, and offer it for free - as part of buying a lovely expensive mac you get ilife, the best suite of applications you can buy, and os x, the best os you can buy.  then you have to pay £30 for Quicktime pro and £70 for some webspace and .mac.  those things could quite easily be standard, and then everyone would be plugging their .mac website they made with their apple mac....


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2006)

Well, I guess from Apple's view it's a little different. They don't make much money from iLife, since they give it away with new Macs. They sure sell some as upgrades, but the real kick for them is .Mac. And if they have over a million users, why stop getting that 100 million dollars a year? That's quite a lot of money, and since you're implying that the services would still have to be brought on, their costs would not only be 100 million dollars higher per year, but also what they have to pay for traffic (and they do!) and servers etc. would increase, since "free" would attract a _lot_ of users, wouldn't it. "Ads", you might say. But that would - for me - kill the appeal of the good service. (I'm not currently a .Mac user, though, and don't plan on becoming one.)

I guess they could give away a "light" version of .mac of some kind with iLife (and also new Macs, of course). It could allow you to have one E-Mail account (makes sure you'll want to keep .Mac afterwards), a bit less of disk space etc. They could make it work 6 months or something... But again: It would probably cost them too much.


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## Shookster (Jan 12, 2006)

> "Ads", you might say. But that would - for me - kill the appeal of the good service.



Adverts would turn a lot of people off. It's not the image that they associate with Apple.


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## fryke (Jan 12, 2006)

exactly what i meant.


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## fpayne (Jan 13, 2006)

Has anyone actually used iLife 05 and 06 to compare the two and give a verdict. I only bought my Mac in November and iLife came with it. I will use all the applications, especially garage band and iphoto. Does the upgrade actually justify buying the newer product, regardless of the sum of money involved? Any amount is too much if the product is not worth it. 

Even on the Apple site I can find no comparison of the two products advising us as to why we should upgrade.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 13, 2006)

generally it's never that good upgrading year over year.  leave it a couple of years to get the most out of your $79.i have iLife '04, and i'm still not tempted enough by '06.


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## fryke (Jan 13, 2006)

I can't repeat it enough: 79$ isn't much for the software you get. I'd look at the reviews that are certainly coming out in the coming days.


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## fpayne (Jan 14, 2006)

I agree, $79 is not much to pay if you get something for your money. But it is a lot to pay if you gain nothing over what you already have. Sometimes an upgrade contains components which make it almost essential while other times an upgrade is nothing more than re-packaging.

My problem is I only have a few days to make a decision and I doubt many reveiws will be out by then.


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## fpayne (Jan 14, 2006)

For anyone inetersted there is a a review at CNet
http://reviews.cnet.com/iLife_06/4505-8033_7-31661463-2.html?tag=nav

I personally found it helpful


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## irg63 (Jan 14, 2006)

I can certainly imagine how you feel!... Could it be that there is a difference in our perceptions of what is a fair price?... I don't mean just a difference between you and I,... i find this genuinely interesting, perhaps there is a difference between UK and US and even between long term Mac users and 'Switchers' (like myself)...

I know that if I were you, and had just bought the product a month before they brought out this upgrade I would be livid and would be back down to the Apple store demanding a free upgrade... Did they tell you that there was probably going to be an upgraded version in a months time?... 

I don't think it is a fair comment (not from you, but from the manufacturers) that computers are updated all the time - the fact is that they are canny marketing guru's and create needs in the minds of users where there clearely aren't really needs,... they want us to upgrade and they don't give a monkey's whether or not we need the new features of the product that they are producing...





			
				mdnky said:
			
		

> I just got it Dec 4th of this year (36 days ago)...how do you think I feel?  I'm sure someone else got it after me.  That's the way the cards lie in the computer world.
> 
> It's not really that big of a deal to me.  Things get updated all the time and some of those cost a whole lot more than $79 (or 45 GBP, 427 FRF, 128 DEM, 609 SEK,  9000 JPY, 837 MXN, 65 EUR, etc. [not counting fees, taxes, or other charges during conversion]).
> 
> If it's worth it to someone to upgrade, they will.  If it's not, they won't.  I think I'll be happy with the '05 version for a while...I really didn't see anything I "have to have" out of '06 just yet.  As it is now, the only programs I use are iTunes (everyday), iPhoto (maybe once a week), and iMovie/iDvd (rarely).  iWeb would probably never be used (that's what BBEdit is for, for me at least) and I think I've opened GarageBand once so far.


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## fryke (Jan 14, 2006)

Well, then we have to repeat something else, too: This forum and quite a couple of rumour sites *know* that Apple has released iLife '04 at MWSF 2004, iLife '05 at MWSF 2005 and it wasn't _that_ hard to imagine that it would release iLife '06 at MWSF 2006. Also: Keynote was first released at MWSF 2004, went into iWork '05 with Pages 1.0 at MWSF 2005, so it wasn't that hard to imagine that iWork '06 would come out at MWSF 2006! People who think they were _betrayed_ in some fashion, I think, are plain wrong. They went to a store, looked at a product, read its description and paid the price for the software. At the time, this price seemed right or they wouldn't have paid it. The box contained no "get free/cheap upgrades for life" inside or anything, so it's, after all, just tough luck. What can we say, really?

You can still sell your iLife or iWork '05 on eBay. If you get 20 dollars for it and buy iWork or iLife for 79, you just _had_ your upgrade pricing.


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## mdnky (Jan 14, 2006)

I wouldn't want the MacBook Pro though.  Sure the extra power would be nice...but I'm happy with what I have.  The lack of a s-video port, only having one FW port (have to have 2...3 would be nice), and the slower SuperDrive (not to mention lack of dual-layer capability) makes it as bad of a choice as an iBook for me now.  The fact that they haven't released power consumption (battery life) ratings and the information I've seen on the Intel Duo chip (as high if not slightly higher draw than the G4, not to mention a brighter more hungry screen); and the fact that its a first run version just don't make me real eager to want one.

I kind of agree on the upgrade thing, but then again this kind of thing has been going on since day one, particularly for hardware.  On the PC side of things its even worse...you're lucky to last a month or two before your new system is outdated (its slowed down recently though).  The Mac side has always given you around six to eight months before that happens, so you kind of have to be happy with what you get.  They are in the business of selling their product and the only way to do so is to create something better so that the sales continue.  It just boils down to buyer-beware I guess. 

A year in time for software is on the inner-edge of the norm really.  Quite a few people actually get ticked off when they don't see some kind of upgrade show up within a set amount of time.

I think a bigger issue revolves around the notion people have that they have to have the latest, greatest 'thing' to rate.  People do it everyday for far more expensive items than a computercars for example.  Why some people buy a new car (or lease) every two years is beyond comprehension to me; not to mention a huge waste of money.  Generally the answer is it's human nature that causes it; companies of course know this and want to profit off of it.

As far as fair price...maybe.  I am after all used to paying quite a bit for software given my occupation.  Someone posted on here about wanting a 2d/3d capable CAD system and I ranked programs under $250 as "low price"...which in that area it is.  Some are pulling $4000+ per seat, with a majority pulling in the $700 to $1300 range.  So yea...$79 seems like a steal in comparison to what I'm used to.


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## fryke (Jan 14, 2006)

totally wrong thread mdnky?  (edit: just saw that you didn't only talk about the macbook, but about upgrade pricing, too... sorry.)


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## hawki18 (Jan 30, 2006)

I have to agree with a article I recently read about software for Mac's.  It said that alot of companys do not write software because they are afraid if they spend all that time and money.  Mac will bring out software like ilife and iworks so they tend to stay away for the mac side of software.  So with little of no compition from 3rd parties they do not need to offer a upgrade price.


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## dmetzcher (Feb 1, 2006)

irg63 said:
			
		

> It's good to hear your feedback, it's just that especially as a long term subscriber to 'dotmac' it I find it really annoys me that they have introduced new stuff to iWork / iLife which means that I have to pay more to be able to profit from their improvements to something I've paid through the nose for for three years now... So, in essence my being able to fully use something else that I've been paying for is affected by my willingness to pay the as new price for it even though I've already paid for it twice in less than a year and a half


.Mac customers should get a discount, I think.


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## fryke (Feb 1, 2006)

Or the other way 'round.


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## dmetzcher (Feb 1, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Or the other way 'round.


The other way around would be better, yes. $99 for a .Mac account is far too much for what is offered. A discount for .Mac when you buy iLife, which uses .Mac more than ever now, would be really nice.


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## dmetzcher (Feb 1, 2006)

hawki18 said:
			
		

> I have to agree with a article I recently read about software for Mac's.  It said that alot of companys do not write software because they are afraid if they spend all that time and money.  Mac will bring out software like ilife and iworks so they tend to stay away for the mac side of software.  So with little of no compition from 3rd parties they do not need to offer a upgrade price.


They don't do upgrade pricing. It's that simple. Plus, as someone else stated, almost all purchases of iLife are upgrades, since you get a copy of it with a new Mac. In theory, the price should really be higher anyway, given the different components of iLife. What I would like to see is something where you can buy one or two of the apps, instead of all of them. iMovie and iDVD hardly interest me at all, but I love iPhoto, and GarageBand is looking nicer now.


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