# My Panther first Impressions and discoveries - Post here



## karavite (Oct 25, 2003)

If indeed Apple reads these posts, thank you so much for Expose. I was a little doubtful it would be useful until I got in my hot little hands. I have two monitors and am always using multiple desktops to sort things out (CodeTek Virtual Desktop), but Expose takes care of so many of my window/app managing issues, I may not really need the multiple desktops any more, or at least as much.

Another thing - Mail now seeming to default to pasting text in the Mail specified font (vs. whatever I copied it from) is fantastic. I can't tell you how much time this alone will save me.


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## bobw (Oct 25, 2003)

Doing an upgrade on my Powerbook G4/400, srewed erything up. Had to wipe and fresh install. Everything works fine except for the "c" key. Have to hold it down for it to work.


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## Giaguara (Oct 25, 2003)

I love the fast user switching. Especially handy when you have more macs and more mac users in the same place.  ::angel:: 

Also terminal background .. Now, will the dock background picture be in 10.4?

Post you first impressions here, guys. I will open an other stiucky one for the Panther Bugs and Incompatibilities.


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## mindbend (Oct 25, 2003)

Initial impressions:

GUI is faster, somewhere in the 20-30% range. Noticeable. Still room to grow, but I bet it's almost glass on the G5s.

Exposé is every bit as cool as I had hoped. Best GUI feature I've ever seen.

Everything just feels and looks right. It looks and reacts like a more finished OS than Jaguar.

Preview destroys Reader. It is super fast on DP 867, can't imagine how it's like on a DP G5. Reader wishes it could be Preview.

Font Book is giving me fits. Poor documentation doesn't help. Thousands of fonts bring it to its knees. Installed fonts don't always update visually, so you have to quit and relaunch FB. By default drag and drop install turns the fonts on (not a good default). And default pref is to move the source font instead of copying (also not a good default). Major headache. Should be worth it in the end, cuz it's great once the fonts are in there. If they ever get auto-activation, this thing will be unbdeatable. I have every OS X Font Manager and have used all of them. FontBook is the best (though SuitCase still seems to be the only one that shows multiple font cases at once for comparison. All font managers should do that).

Apps definitely launch faster. Apple's apps launch very fast. The big apps (Photoshop) launch about 20-30% faster. Don't know how much of that is related to clean install.

Like the new smoother look, tho I'm starting to join the anti-brushed metal bandwagon. I'll tolerate it one more round, then it's time to move on, Apple.

--------

"Discoveries"

I love the Finder-level archiving to zip files. Very nice touch. Goodbye Stuffit.

The Folder Actions are cool, hadn't tried them before. Still not sure I'll ever actually use them, but it's neat to have.

Alt-Tab app switching puts a nice big menu in the middle of the screen. I like that.

Selecting Finder files puts a box around them for easier visual feedback as to what is selected. Nice.

Finder windows show summary info as to that is in the window. I just wish it would add File size info as well.

Why on earth did they put Login Items as a Tab in Accounts Preferences? That was a terrible idea. Took me forever to find that.

My printers are ready to go this time, with Jaguar I had to manually install drivers for two out of three printers.


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## karavite (Oct 26, 2003)

Thanks to the admin for re-titling this post - I came back to do something similar, but you beat me to it!

I have a few drives and though my main disk now has a clean 10.3 install, I did an experiment by running an upgrade from 10.2.8 to 10.3 and it works perfectly. Not sure if everyone will have the same luck, but it looks like Apple did its homework.

I like the new Finder window, but it is still no replacement for my beloved Fruitmenus (should be out for 10.3 very soon). Apple, why do you shy away from the old Apple menu way of doing things? If you put the side bar in the apple menu I'd be all set - no more Fruitmenus. Is it because you want to shy away from a start menu thing (which seemed ripped off from the Apple menu in the first place)? I know I can put all kinds of things in my dock and I really like the dock, but I am just stuck on having the ability to go to an Apple menu - oh well, FruitMenu seems to have this covered.

I don't know if this is related to 10.3, but my Final Cut Pro 3.2 is doing some really odd things in rendering various files. Perhaps I finally need to fork out for that v4 upgrade...


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 26, 2003)

Font Book is DOG slow.  I own the Adobe Font Folio 9.0, which contains about 1500 - 2000 fonts and tried to add them to Font Book.  I can't find any preference that will let me add fonts without activating them at the time of addition, so Font Book insisted on activating all the thousands of them... which took FOREVER.  I got the spinning beachball when I added them, the spinning beachball when I tried to highlight a different font, then again when I hit "deactivate."  I don't think it's going to work out -- too damn slow.


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## mindbend (Oct 26, 2003)

OK, so my Font Book trouble is not just me. FB simply does not cut it for large font collections. I am so disappointed as I was looking forward to using it more than any other Panther feature (except Exposé). I have been fighting with Font Book all weekend. Many hours of waiting for fonts install only to have to wait for them to be deactivated. I figured it might be worth it in the end, but I can no longer get FB to even launch. It is so bloated or corrupted that it won't launch! Endless beachball.

What I'm trying to do now is make a compromise system, where I use FB just for working with fonts that I actually intend to use. I'm looking for a Font Viewer that will let me view uninstalled fonts. So far, The Fontz is the leader, but it doesn't properly support OpenType, so it's not perfect either. In fact, it's useless, because I simply have to have OpenType support. Man this is frustrating.

If anyone knows of a Font Preview app that supports OpenType and UNINSTALLED fonts, please advise (I'm currently going through every shareware app I can find).


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 26, 2003)

Extensis Suitcase worked fine for me.  Never had a problem with large font collections, either, and it'll let you preview fonts without activating them.  You can add fonts to Extensis without automatically activating them, too, making the font addition process a hell of a lot faster.

I'm thinking of switching back to Suitcase for the time being.  No, it ain't a speed demon, but it beats Font Book hands down.


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## mindbend (Oct 26, 2003)

I've used all of them, including Suitcase, which still has the best font preview comparison. I dumped Suitcase because it fell behind for a while, was a little buggy and worse, did things like put in code or something so that if you open an InDesign file that originally used Suitcase to work with fonts on a system that doesn't have Suitcase, you get a warning box and an option to purge the Suitcase data. Annoying.

I think you're right though, it may be the best option these days. I've been using Font Agent Pro for a while since they got auto-activation going, which is very flaky. It's interface is still the best (very Font Book-ish) and the searching is great, but it's slow and you can't compare multiple fonts. What are font manager developers thinking by not allowing multiple font comparison? Duh!

Are you using Suitcase X1? I'm DL-ing the demo now. Real shame FB isn't delivering the goods, I've really been wanting an OS-native manager for years.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 26, 2003)

Yes, I'm using Suitcase X1 and have dumped Font Book in favor of it simply because of speed.  I don't want to wait four minutes while Font Book sits there and spins the beachball for who-knows-what-reason.


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## twister (Oct 26, 2003)

safari now has a crash program that sends a response to apple whenever it fails you.


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## bobw (Oct 26, 2003)

The current version of FruitMenu, v3.1,  works fine with Panther.
The current version of ASM, a replacement for the Apple Menu also works fine in Panther.

That crash program, going to Apple, seems to pop up when most things crash.


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## karavite (Oct 27, 2003)

bobw said:
			
		

> The current version of FruitMenu, v3.1,  works fine with Panther.



Oh, I should try reinstalling it then - thanks bobw! I just went off the Unsanity site info on Panther: http://www.unsanity.com/panther.php


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## DeltaMac (Oct 27, 2003)

My iMac DV/SE 500 MHz/1GB boots faster than I have ever seen with OS X on this system. roughly 2/3 of Jaguar boot, I normally sleep my system, wake-up is faster also.
I like the eject botton next to any removable devices in the SideBar.
There's a menu selection in the print window to check for printer driver updates.
You can actually repair MS-DOS disks (runs some FAT error testing in Disk Utitlity)
Mail apparently handles attachments in an understandable way (I've never seen an attachment labeled as one prior to Panther)
I like the background 'fade' on log-outs. Shutdown has a completely different sequence now (seems much like an OS 9 shutdown now, much faster)
Try toggling 'Use Smooth Scrolling' in the Appearance pane. Smooth Scrolling, for me, gives a nice smooth use of a scroll wheel mouse. My gripe about Mac compared to Windows scrolling, was that scroll wheel is 'step-py' or jerky. This option gives me what I prefer - smooth!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 27, 2003)

I've noticed the new shutdown as well!  Shuts down MUCH faster than Jaguar did.

I also noticed that Panther spins down my internal ATA hard drives BEFORE it shuts down now -- with Jaguar, the disks would spin down and shut off when the computer shut off... now, I can hear them spinning down and "clicking" off before the computer turns off... an effect of the new journaling file system perhaps?


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## bobw (Oct 27, 2003)

Now there's no Favorites Folder with a sub menu in the Go Menu. I liked that for keeping aliases of my networked machines for a quick connect. Now I have a folder in my Dock with these aliases in it, and right click the folder and connects are almost instant.


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## citizentony (Oct 27, 2003)

I use graphite and have noticed the widget's in the Finder do not turn graphite. The sliding bar does but the buttons do not. I don't like that. 

In fact my only complaint would be the fact that the os is so un-uniform. With 2 different brushed metal's, widget's that don't match the other widget's, transperancy here, but not over there, etc... I wish they would clean it up a bit.

Other than that I am liking 10.3.


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## toast (Oct 27, 2003)

I hope the Help Center sucks less than the one that comes with Jag, which is slow, obscure and most of the time, utterly useless.

P. looks promising though. The Apple Expo convinced me, it's an upgrade I'll buy. When the money gets in.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 27, 2003)

I can confirm that the Help Center is quite a bit faster... don't know if it contains any more useful information, but it *IS* faster...


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## twister (Oct 27, 2003)

sherlock sucks... even more i think


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## fryke (Oct 27, 2003)

gotta agree. sherlock, after a weak start back in os 8/9, is now an all-american service thingie i can only use for one thing: translations. and i don't, because i can do that in a browser, too, that i have open, anyway...


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## jove (Oct 27, 2003)

Hello,

My complaints, so far, are purely aesthetic. 

It took me a year to get used the white space only separators in menus. Lines are back. No big deal, but it is nagging me.

Everything is grayer. I enjoyed the whiter and more colorful Jaguar. Panther just seems drab.

Tabs and group-boxes have totally changed. Several existing products do not "look" correct because those UI elements are very different. They are both more image-well-like. I am not a big fan of frivolous or excessive pseudo-3D.

The Finder icon selection, tacky.


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## twister (Oct 28, 2003)

no process viewer


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## mindbend (Oct 28, 2003)

I'm getting very inconsistent "rollover" info visibility in dialog windows. For example, if I open a file in an app and dig thru an folder and choose a file, I should be able to rest the cursor on the file and in a moment it's full name appears as a popup, right? Most of the time, that does not happen for me anymore. What's worse, sometimes it's completely off center, like I have to roll over not the file itself, but the folder containing the file. Very odd. I can't imagine this is intended, tho I'm still trying to figure out the quirks.


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## DJ Dylan (Oct 28, 2003)

Everything I've read so far has really made me want Panther....now, I just need to find 70 bucks so I can get it. Love student discounts!


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## DeltaMac (Oct 28, 2003)

twister said:
			
		

> no process viewer


twister, There's no Process Viewer, true enough, that function is now rolled into the Activity Monitor, giving you access to much more info.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2003)

WOW!  Activity Monitor is like a super-great "top" terminal command now!  YEEEHAAA!


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## citizentony (Oct 28, 2003)

citizentony said:
			
		

> I use graphite and have noticed the widget's in the Finder do not turn graphite. The sliding bar does but the buttons do not. I don't like that.
> 
> In fact my only complaint would be the fact that the os is so un-uniform. With 2 different brushed metal's, widget's that don't match the other widget's, transperancy here, but not over there, etc... I wish they would clean it up a bit.
> 
> Other than that I am liking 10.3.



Hmm, oddly the widgets seem to have addapted to their graphite enviornment and are now matching the rest. 

This makes my only complaint much smaller. 

BTW, I am really getting to like Expose on the 12" PB's screen. Really makes working on much more pleasurable.


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## heathpitts (Oct 30, 2003)

I have two gripes about it. First. My iChat AV will not come up. By this I mean that the menubar item will log me in as available but it closes without an explanation when trying to show the buddy list.

second, it is faster booting up, but after I login from a reboot, it seems to take forever before I get a dock menubar and my login items start loading, like a minute or so.


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## mindbend (Oct 30, 2003)

Does anyone know how I can connect to my networked iMac WITHOUT having to provide my password each time? Jaguar let me keychain it and I can't see how to do that now. BTW- Apple's help has not one single reference to "Keychain".


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## DeltaMac (Oct 30, 2003)

mindbend said:
			
		

> Does anyone know how I can connect to my networked iMac WITHOUT having to provide my password each time? Jaguar let me keychain it and I can't see how to do that now. BTW- Apple's help has not one single reference to "Keychain".



Looks like you're missing something, when I search in Apple help for keychain, I get at least 20 topics with the word keychain....  Perhaps you upgraded instead of an archive and install like most here recommend (Truth: I did a simple upgrade, and help did not display many Panther items until I deleted the existing help files).....

do a FIND for com.apple.help  (some items will have the name com.apple.helpui (there's a folder with that name that has ALL Apple help help files)  When those files are trashed, it will force Apple help the download all new files, and you should be able to find what you're looking for.


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## eric halfabee (Oct 30, 2003)

Such as the way the sheets come flowing out and back again from its little opening... niice.

Also the way the Classic Icon in the doc fills up with colour as you launch classic... niiice.

The new animated lock.

The extra printer features, ie Scheduler and ColorSync options.

I'm sure there are more to come.


eric


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## Trip (Oct 30, 2003)

Amazing! Just wanted to say: VERY FAST! I can't believe how fast Panther is running on my 350 Mhz Slot-loading iMac!

The updated interface is very nice! Looks very professional in my opinion! And very clean!

I havn't really discoved much other than it's so fast! Even watching movies in preview mode and everything, it's just so fast!

*Will post more later.


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## twister (Oct 30, 2003)

Trip did you do a clean install or upgrade?


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## Trip (Oct 30, 2003)

Since I had never really used the iMac I did a clean install.


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## jove (Oct 30, 2003)

Mindbend,
I didn't see the keychain option in the connection dialogs either. Open the app Keychain access and try to create one manually.


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## habilis (Oct 30, 2003)

I can't believe it took them 3 frigging years to bring labels back. 

But I'm really glad they did.

Panther. I like it.(for the record I've hated OSX until Panther because it was so unwieldy in a graphic design environment, and so much damn slower then OS9)

I love exposé. Clutter in OSX was a major major problem, especially since I'm a graphics guy and I always have about 8 apps open at once with multiple graphic/html docs open at once. exposé has instantly increased my production levels and almost revolutionized the way I work. Finally OSX can hold it's own against OS9!! This thing has been needed for years upon years. For myself, and I imagine any other power user, exposé is the best thing since a multi-threaded finder, and the best thing about Panther.

Finally, directory navigation is also easy!! Praise the Lord! Although they took the idea from windows explorer I love the new finder window with backwards and forward button and the drag-and-droppable aliases that creates almost a mobile dock. I have my dock hidden now whereas before I preferred it showing.

Also the command+tab was a 100% rip from windows. I really don't care that it's stolen. I always liked that about windows.

That's my first impression

I highly advocate buying it.


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## twister (Oct 31, 2003)

Printing is smarter in my opinion.


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## DJHyp3rion (Oct 31, 2003)

...neeed....moree...GUI...continuity....

otherwise, it's "OMGWOWLOL!" cool.


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## macnewguy (Nov 1, 2003)

I didn't really notice much of a difference from Jaguar to Panther.  Of course, I barely know anythiing.  the biggest and best defference from jaguar is Exposé.  It is the best!  Also user switching is pretty good.  i expected a lot more from it.But I can't say it is bad, because it isn't. I love it!


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## ApeintheShell (Nov 3, 2003)

Despite what some people are saying about Safari, it works great for me!
The writing isn't delayed like it was in Panther.

The installation was quirky toward the end and won't let me install the 2nd and 3rd cd but i can handle that for now.

Haven't tried out all the features because i spent 5 minutes trying to get Panther to recognize the internal modem..garr! For some reason Safari holds the internet preferences??

I think the way the application launches is cool, well im gonna watch 28 days later, see ya


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## toast (Nov 3, 2003)

Using a G3/500 and enjoying incredible Panth. speed. I'm amazed and surprised, just like Trip.

The apps I use all day long (Safari, Mail...) are slightly improved. But my concern number 1 was speed and Apple has been very satisfactory here.


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## heathpitts (Nov 3, 2003)

I am very satisfied as well. the new finder has been a godsend. Expose is cool but I will have to change my work habits to enjoy the benefits fully. The only problem I have seen has been keeping my idisk synchronized when I am at home using my dial-up connection. Logout times out because of the sync process. I have now completely synced it at work and will try agian when I get home.


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## twister (Nov 3, 2003)

I've found pre-binding and repairing disk permissions speed up my system.  For those unsatisfied with speed go check out Cocktail.  Remove caches, pre-bind, repair, run scripts.  All that fun stuff.  See if it helps.


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## DeltaMac (Nov 3, 2003)

twister said:
			
		

> I've found pre-binding and repairing disk permissions speed up my system.  For those unsatisfied with speed go check out Cocktail.  Remove caches, pre-bind, repair, run scripts.  All that fun stuff.  See if it helps.



Except for re-binding, very good system tune-ups (prebinding runs automatically whenever needed in the background since Jaguar, probably by the same trigger that runs an automatic de-frag under Panther)  I've read a couple of articles that show how manual pre-binding is not relevant for Jaguar (and by extension, Panther), HOWEVER, I sometimes do a re-bind anyway, and there seems to be some perfomance benefit (maybe in my head only)  Removing cache files may be the biggest help, at least in my experience.


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## jimbo61 (Nov 3, 2003)

just installed panther, and it feels soo much faster, so i like it. it's diffently faster but it still seeems buggy. and expose it just amazing, best GUI feature ever.


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## twister (Nov 3, 2003)

Also preference files maybe?  I just cleaned out mine and threw a lot away.  On this machine i just upgraded no clean install.


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## DeltaMac (Nov 3, 2003)

twister said:
			
		

> Also preference files maybe?  I just cleaned out mine and threw a lot away.  On this machine i just upgraded no clean install.



Well, sure. You run a little risk of losing either an app's registration, or customized settings (which you just re-do), but usually not a big deal.
You can do the same thing (good thing for some troubleshooting) by creating a new user, so all user prefs then are fresh.


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## bigbadbill (Nov 3, 2003)

Keychain doesn't seem to work for me at all. There is no way that i can see to add a password to keychain when you log into a server. And even if I manually add an item to keychain it's gone on restart. Anyone else having keychain issues?


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## mindbend (Nov 3, 2003)

Same here for the keychain thing. I posted about it somewhere else, but found no solution.


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## DJHyp3rion (Nov 3, 2003)

oh yeah I forgot

OMGCRAPWOW it's Fast.
IMHO, about 90% speed of OS 9. Woohoo...feels more polished.


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## habilis (Nov 3, 2003)

DJHyp3rion said:
			
		

> about 90% speed of OS 9


No chance. More like 75%.


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## jove (Nov 3, 2003)

About the keychain issue...
Are you using the Keychain Access application?
Did you check file permissions on your keychain file "~/Library/Keychains/username"?


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## DJHyp3rion (Nov 3, 2003)

85%.


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## Satcomer (Nov 3, 2003)

I saw and tried a small hack on Panther. I didn't like the fact that Apple replaced the Preference Pane "Internet" with a Preference Pane ".Mac". ".Mac" eliminated a one stop settings stop for default browser & email. So, I copied the the Jaguar Preference Pane "Internet"(from a firewire backup in System->Library->PreferencePanes) and place it into Library->PreferencePanes. 

Now, it not only put the Preference Pane "Internet" back into Panther's Preference Panes, it replaced the whole ".Mac" Preference Pane! Plus, it seems to work right! So take this hack with a grain of salt and your mileage may vary.


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## bigbadbill (Nov 3, 2003)

jove said:
			
		

> About the keychain issue...
> Are you using the Keychain Access application?
> Did you check file permissions on your keychain file "~/Library/Keychains/username"?



I thought you had it for sure, but alas, file permissions are in order. I'm wondering if this is an isolated issue or is everyone having this same problem?


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## Brian G. (Nov 4, 2003)

Found a neat feature of Expose', while performing a drag operation, you can hit F9 (keeping the mouse button pressed), pick a destination and drop.

Works with the F11 (Show Desktop) also. Very handy.

Brian G.


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## habilis (Nov 4, 2003)

Brian: good call, I like that. Although I'm using the hot corners I don't think I can can quite use that function. The hot corners are faster for me, since my hands can't see the F9-F11 keys without looking. The extra second makes all the difference.


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## bigbadbill (Nov 4, 2003)

Seems to work with hot corners too!


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## toast (Nov 5, 2003)

OH MY GOD. Preview now reads EPS and PS (PostScript files) and CONVERTS THEM TO PDF. I stand startled.

Thanks Steve !


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## karavite (Nov 5, 2003)

I have a related story - I work with a developer who would often tease me about my Macs - he is more of a *nix geek than anything else - and the other day, without me even bringing it up, this guy was just raving on and on about 10.3 - fast user switching, Expose and even the thread highlighting in Mail. He actually said, "I have to get a Mac." Since this guy is a developer (and a very good one) what seemed to impress him was the software and clever programming of Apple. That's not something the world has been too impressed with lately has it? Meaning who else is doing clever programming in an OS these days?


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## Trip (Nov 5, 2003)

I finally got around to installing Panther on my iBook. I upgraded it so I wouldn't loose all my files (a backup would just be too hard). And I noticed it was quite a bit slower than the clean install I had done on my iMac. So I checked out the program suggested before. And it seemed to help! Go get it now, it's called Cocktail and it's really helpful!

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/18282


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## jimbo61 (Nov 5, 2003)

i've been running panther for about a week now, and i must say, it's fast, and i love it, it brings my old g4 too life, (it must sream on G5's) but...... it has it's bugs as any new OS would. and where did my favorites menu go?? did apple get rid of it?


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## Total Konfuzion (Nov 5, 2003)

yup, apple got rid of it for the sidebar, heh.


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## bigbadbill (Nov 6, 2003)

Keychain seems to work if you set up your network connections using rendezvous under to GO>CONNECT TO SERVER. Otherwise keychain dosen't work at all despite asking me for permission to access.

I noticed that the "start-up on schedule" feature has returned to the energy saver preference panel: YEAH!

Exposé could sure use a delay option to prevent it from opening by accident, it can be a bit annoying. I've also notice that expose doesn't display Error Messages making them very difficult to find.

*Come on OS 10.3.1!*


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## mindbend (Nov 6, 2003)

Panther allows long file names to be named directly over the network. Jaguar prevented long file names to be created on the networked machine. You had to name it on your local machine first and then move it (or walk over to the other machine and name it). At least that was the case for a basic file sharing environment, I don't know if that was true when using a true Jaguar server.


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## twister (Nov 6, 2003)

i have no network


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## Dreamify (Nov 7, 2003)

Just got Panther a few days ago, and Photoshop last night - and I'm loving it. I'm upgrading from OS9, so it's a big change for me.


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## Urbansory (Nov 7, 2003)

I didn't plan on installing anytime soon, but I ordered it, it came 2 days later, and i just couldn't help myself. All seems fine, runs much faster, and Archive and Install took about 25 minutes. Apple is the best.

Window resizing is still bad, but I guess I'm use to that considering I need a new G5 to replace this G4.


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## Charlie (Nov 8, 2003)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> I can confirm that the Help Center is quite a bit faster... don't know if it contains any more useful information, but it *IS* faster...



I was dissappointed at it's slow action.


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## DJ Dylan (Nov 10, 2003)

Wow. Just got Panther installed on my Powerbook G4 a couple minutes ago. So far its quicker then 10.2, and Expose....I love Expose.


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## karavite (Nov 11, 2003)

Urbansory said:
			
		

> Window resizing is still bad, but I guess I'm use to that considering I need a new G5 to replace this G4.



You know, I agree completely. We shouldn't need a super fast state of the art computer in order to resize windows smoothly. I have a G4 Dual 1 GHz and it is still a little jerky with Mail and IE. It would be nice if Apple gave us the option to have windows just show their outline while resizing - Office apps do this by default and a few others, but it would be nice to have this as an OS option for all windows - for those with older Macs or even new Macs. I was in a thread on this whole bugaboo some time ago. Maybe Unsanity or someone will write a haxie for this some day?


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## Urbansory (Nov 11, 2003)

that wouldn't be such a bad idea


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## mindbend (Nov 12, 2003)

I have been complaining about window resize speed forever and a day. Usually I get the old "It's a more complicated GUI...Why are you resizing windows all day?...That's the price you pay for a better OS...etc." arguments. Those just don't fly for me. The simple fact is that one of the core GUI operations is slow and that is unacceptable to me. Period. 

However, Panther has just nudged window resizing into "barely tolerable" for me [on DP 1 Gig and DP 867]. There is much more room for improvement, but at least now I no longer want to rip my own head off when resizing a window.

I would definitely buy a haxie that forced window outlines.


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## mindbend (Nov 12, 2003)

Hate to say it, but they finally stole a great Windows approach, which is to allow a user in a Save window to click on an existing (grayed out) file as a way to name the new file to be saved. Nice.

Panther is really sweet. It's loaded with these little things that I keep finding every day.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 13, 2003)

IIRC, that feature was present in OS 8 and 9.  It could have been part of Action Utilities, which I had installed at the time, but I wanna say it was a default feature of the OS.


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## mindbend (Nov 13, 2003)

Diablo,

I can't recall it being in 8/9, but I won't deny it if so, but it's [ability to click on existing files in save windows for renaming] definitely new to OS X, right? Cuz I've been wanting it for ages and looking for it, and now it's here, so unless I was blind, I'm assuming it's new to OS X. Either way, glad it's there.


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## senne (Nov 13, 2003)

habilis said:
			
		

> Finally, directory navigation is also easy!! Praise the Lord! Although they took the idea from windows explorer I love the new finder window with backwards and forward button



uhm.. You also have this in Jaguar.

And about the the App Switcher: Mac OS 9 also had this, so no rip off from Windows!


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 13, 2003)

Now that I think about it, it may have been PhotoShop in OS 8/9 that had the "click a grayed out filename" to name the save file... I don't know, all I know is that I used it quite often in the pre-OS X days...


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## karavite (Nov 14, 2003)

ElDiabloConCaca said:
			
		

> Now that I think about it, it may have been PhotoShop in OS 8/9 that had the "click a grayed out filename" to name the save file... I don't know, all I know is that I used it quite often in the pre-OS X days...



Really - my God, where was I??? I have been waiting for this for years thinking it would never come!


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## dsatterfield (Nov 14, 2003)

Hi Everyone.  

I do know of a program that will do view fonts.  Thumbsplus from Cerious.  Now,  the only problem is I just checked their website(11/14/03) & it looks like they have pulled the only Mac version available.  I use v4 on a Wintel box and it works great, not perfect but it does what everyone seems to need.  

I did found Font Viewer v4.4 on Tucows which was updated on Aug 16, 2003 and it's freeware.  

And by the way,  Suitcase from Extensis also chokes and takes down OSX with it when I attempted to add the fonts I have.   Yes I know, no one needs 4000+ fonts. 

thanks

David





			
				mindbend said:
			
		

> OK, so my Font Book trouble is not just me. FB simply does not cut it for large font collections. I am so disappointed as I was looking forward to using it more than any other Panther feature (except Exposé). I have been fighting with Font Book all weekend. Many hours of waiting for fonts install only to have to wait for them to be deactivated. I figured it might be worth it in the end, but I can no longer get FB to even launch. It is so bloated or corrupted that it won't launch! Endless beachball.
> 
> What I'm trying to do now is make a compromise system, where I use FB just for working with fonts that I actually intend to use. I'm looking for a Font Viewer that will let me view uninstalled fonts. So far, The Fontz is the leader, but it doesn't properly support OpenType, so it's not perfect either. In fact, it's useless, because I simply have to have OpenType support. Man this is frustrating.
> 
> If anyone knows of a Font Preview app that supports OpenType and UNINSTALLED fonts, please advise (I'm currently going through every shareware app I can find).


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## michaelsanford (Nov 14, 2003)

Faster, cleaner, cooler, did I mention faster?

I don't really like that panel on the left of the file browsing windows, but Exposé makes up for that tenfold! Wow that's cool as heck.

I love Apple. Only Apple could make a next-generation operating system, and make it faster than previous iterations! You try putting Windows XP on a 300MHz laptop and see what happens 

My initial reaction to Panther: well worth the 117$


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## mindbend (Nov 15, 2003)

dsatter, also consider Fontage as a previewer. Only flaw is that, unless you delete a preview set before quitting, it wants to load it each time you launch Fontage, which can take a while. So, in your case, if you had your entire library available for uninstalled previewing, I bet it would take 5-10 minutes to launch Fontage.

Sorry to hear Suitcase isn't cutting it. I Love it!


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## mindbend (Nov 15, 2003)

OK, after a couple of weeks now using Panther on multiple machines, I must say it is the most revolutionary OS I have used since Mac OS on my Old SE. And I'm not kidding. 

To me, Panther is more of a leap from Jaguar than OS 9 was to OS X. Here's why:

Panther doesn't just make my work easier or faster, it CHANGES THE WAY I WORK. For the better. No other OS has ever done that to this degree for me (since the original Mac OS). For others I'm sure it's not that big of a deal, but for me, it's quite a leap.

Examples:

Exposé. Holy crap. Where has this been all our lives. Completely changes workflow. Gee, I wonder if Longhorn will copy this.

Folder actions. These were in previous OSes, right? If so, I never used them cuz they were buried. Panther makes them easy to use and access. Now I've got all kinds of workgroup folders with Comments that pop up when a user tries to add something or move something or delete something or whatever. Very cool. Now they need to allow Folder Actions to activate over a network.

Inline Finder searching. Mother of God that is convenient and fast. I set mine to "Selection" searching. Windows wishes it had this kind of convenient searching.

Labels. Yes, not new to Panther, but new to OS X (outside of shareware). Most underrated OS feature ever. Gee, I wonder if Longhorn will have labels.

Finder-level archiving to zip. Goodbye Stuffit.

Preview App that annihilates Acrobat Reader and now supports 1.3 spec for transparency (thus allowing it to be used as a previewer for InDesign-created PDFs with transparency, unlike Jaguar's Preview).


These are just a few examples of how Panther has changed how I work. In fact, it is so good that I am no longer buying a G5 (right away). 

------

Nitpicks:

The Finder still needs a way to show the MB size of a given file/folder without having to Get Info. The new Finder window would be perfect for this at the bottom where they now show available items and available disk space. They just need to add MB worth of selected data there. I need to know that way more than I need to know available disk space.

Likewise, in COlumn view, the right panel needs to show a summary report when selecting multiple files.

They should add in-line searching to the dialog windows. So if I'm in Photoshop and decide to open a file and can't remember where it is...inline search, BOOM!, there it is. (Photoshop's current dialog search is a mess).




That's all for now. Panther is an amazing (though subtle) OS. A MUST-HAVE.


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## Giaguara (Nov 17, 2003)

MAIL:

threaded view: it puts all the things with the same title and re: that same title together.

the mails from completely different persons that start re: are NOT the same thread. how can i debug that? so fari i jsut delete the old mails to keep getting that..


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## twister (Nov 17, 2003)

oh yea.  treads are cool now that i found out how to turn them on =)


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## Giaguara (Nov 17, 2003)

hm, i forgot how to turn it on. in prefs? or with a click ...

the enabling groups in ichat was hard to find. i thought it'd be clicking in the buddy window, but of course it had to be a click selection in the ichat preferences. so asap i found it i use it.


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## twister (Nov 17, 2003)

View -> Organize by Thread


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## mr. k (Nov 17, 2003)

Enabling groups is in panther too -- I don't know if it was new in iChat A/V Beta though.


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## porteous (Nov 21, 2003)

I second most of what Mindbend says above. Panther is a quantum leap forward from Jaguar - and, for me, is so much faster it's almost like the jump into hyperspace.

Only one grumble: Safari keeps crashing - and I know the OS allows user reports to be sent direct to Apple, but this happens so frequently that I really can't be bothered filling in a form every time.

That will obviously be rectified sooner or later - on the whole, though, Panther is an awesome beast!


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## mindbend (Nov 21, 2003)

porteus,

I'm just curious. Did you do a clean install (full hard drive wipe) of Panther or just an overwrite? I'm pretty sure Safari has not crashed once in Panther on three machines for me. So in theory, Safari is actually pretty darned stable in spite of your experiences.


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## bigbadbill (Nov 26, 2003)

An article I read in _MacWorld_ advised assigning Exposé features to your multi-button mouse if you have one. This made alot of sense to me because I often open it accidentaly by mousing into a corner. But doing so proved to be a challenge since the Exposé doesn't support all of my MX700 mouse buttons and there was no way to add Exposé commands to my Logitech Control Panel.

I simply assigned a keystroke command for the mouse button I wanted to use and made the same keystroke command an Exposé assignement. (Make the key assignment in in the mouse control panel first, otherwise Exposé is activated when you press the keys preventing your from entering the info into the mouse control panel. Duh!)


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## mindbend (Nov 26, 2003)

I ended up doing the same thing (using mouse buttons to activate Exposé) once ElDiablo first mentioned it here. It's a great trick. I ended up realizing that way too many apps I use make use of F9-10-11, so I had to create a more obcsure keystroke for the mouse buttons to activate. Works great!

Exposé may be the greatest OS GUI feature ever. And not just cuz it looks cool.


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## karavite (Nov 27, 2003)

bigbadbill - thanks for the tip. I have the same mouse am up and running.

mindbend - I meant to respond to your earlier thoughts on resizing performance being unnacceptable. I agree completely and also have a DP 1 Gig. Sure it is a little better now, but it still is just enough of a delay to bug me. I know there is human factors research on delays of this type being a problem - we aren't just being picky, it is the way our brains are wired! What I would really like is an outline resizing option similar to what you see in many Linux window managers/desktop environments - possibly like the one that shows the window coordinates - not really needed for me, but it looks cool!  I hope Unsanity does something with this - they seem to be the best bet.


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## karavite (Nov 28, 2003)

bigbadbill - I have to thank you again. I was going to try something like this, but never got around to it until I saw your post. With your mouse control tips Expose is now UNBELIEVABLY awesome! I just finished an extensive research session on the web (I was looking into do it yourself kits for hifi tube amps) and managing 6 + browser windows across 2 monitors with Expose and my MZ700 was a snap. As a result, I just turned off Codetek Virtual Desktop as a start up item (sorry guys - it is a great app, but Expose is a different approach to the same problem - managing multiple windows).


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## evildan (Dec 5, 2003)

Since I started working at my new job a daily ritual is to connect to the 6 shared volumes which all reside on one shared server.

I was really happy when Panther came out, since it regressed to the multi-share connection approach that OS9 had. Connecting to one shared server produces a list (and active connection) to all the shares on that machine.

I'm speaking from a SAMBA connection.

But the problem I've been having is that the server inconsistently shows up as a share. For some reason, my Panther machine ignores the share. Even though I can use my other machine (test machine) which only has Jaguar on it to find that share.

Also, the browse connect option is soooo slooooow... almost to the point where my morning ritual is to come in, set my machine up, try to connect to the network, walk away, talk to some people around the office, get myself something to drink, then come back to my desk to discover it just connecting.

In the morning this is not an issue, as I have nothing pending. But when I have an Account Executive standing over my shoulder looking for information that I need to pull from the network, it creates an issue.

So during one of the spontaneously absent share moments, that I hunted down the server I just manually connected using Command+K and typing in the IP address... I was shocked at how much faster this is. Which begs the question... why? Why is the GUI soooo slooooooow?

Any information would be appreciated!


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## DeltaMac (Dec 5, 2003)

The slow response may be due to some configuration of Rendezvous (searching to all possible points on your network before giving you any choices) glad to hear you found a quick alternate. Would bringing up a share work more quickly, if you create an alias for the share, keep it on the desktop, or somewhere handy for you? My theory would be that the share would respond and mount when you open the alias, going directly to that shore only. Might be worth a try. You could keep a folder with aliases for your normal shares.  I don't work with any shares, so I can't test this.


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