# Mac OS X 10.5 ideas



## cyprus mac man (Jul 3, 2006)

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to start a thread to hear what anybody knows about 10.5 and if any of you have any cool ideas for it.

I had some ideas. One would be you could catch the dock icons when they bounced up and down. Another would be that you could slow down the playback in iTunes. In iChat, you could easily connect to MSN, Yahoo, etc. and also have animation Buddy Icons. Also, themes (like the red, yellow, and green buttons at the top) would be shades of Aqua Blue. Also an uninstaller. You could also have the icon for a document (example: Word file) and it would preview the first page as the icon.

Thats about it for now. Ill post back with more.


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## Veljo (Jul 3, 2006)

.


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## joe_burban (Jul 3, 2006)

Neat ideas Cyprus.  In particular, I like the one about iChat -- it would be nice to use it to communicate with other chat programs.


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## barhar (Jul 3, 2006)

Fix the bugs of MacOS X 10.0.0 through 10.4.7, and provide it as a free 'bug fix' - not as a major 'with 120+ features' release.


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## Mikuro (Jul 3, 2006)

barhar said:
			
		

> Fix the bugs of MacOS X 10.0.0 through 10.4.7, and provide it as a free 'bug fix' - not as a major 'with 120+ features' release.


Hear, hear! Not going to happen, but it's nice to dream, isn't it?

I think more dynamic icons would be a good idea. At one point Apple did have dynamic icons for text files in OS X, but I don't think this feature made it out of the public beta (or was it in 10.0?). I can certainly understand why they took it out. It's not like you'd actually be able to read much of anything on an icon, so it might not be worth the cost to performance/consistency. But there are other types that could use dynamic icons, like folders.

Along similar lines, it would be nice if the Finder's previewing ability was beefed up. I'd like a way to get pop-up previews in icon and list view (and column view, too, since its previewing isn't terribly convenient as it is). AFAIK, there's no way for developers to hook into this and provide routines for OS X to generate previews. It would be cool if Apple made this extensible; that way potentially every file format out there could have a meaningful preview.



> Quote:
> Another would be that you could slow down the playback in iTunes.
> 
> Again...why? There are specialised programs that can do this.


But...not in iTunes. I have all my music in iTunes. With playlists, and all sorts of goodies that no other program with this feature has. Adjusting the speed of music playback isn't just a novelty, and since QuickTime already has the ability to do it, why not? I'd actually like to see this. Although granted, QuickTime 7 isn't all that _great_ at slowing down audio, so its routine would probably need to be improved. It's great at speeding up audio, though. I doubt Apple will be motivated to do this, though, since its usefulness is pretty limited and iTunes is a general-purpose program.



The single feature I want most is the ability to adjust the onscreen resolution of individual apps and windows. This feature allllmost made it to Tiger, in the form of Quartz 2D Extreme (not to be confused with Quartz Extreme). You could even play around with it if you used some debugging tools, but I think they even pulled that out in 10.4.4 or so. Apple is definitely thinking about it, anyway, so it's not unreasonable to expect it in Leopard. Fingers crossed!


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## Dark Dexter (Jul 4, 2006)

Something that was in Panther that disappeared in Tiger.... ANIMATION IN PREVIEW!!!! What happened to the play button?!?! UGH! I'm sorry but this is major to me.

~Dark Dexter


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 4, 2006)

also, I would LOVE to bring back the "button" mode from classic. you know, the won where you just click a file once to open it.

also, Veljo, the idea is that it's Apple's program that would do it. not just some other third party application. i know fire can do it with MSN, AIM, and Yahoo. iChat + Psi can do it too, but have Apple work on its own program.

also, something that really would be nice. in finder, when you press the "Go" tab, you see "Computer", "Home", "Network", etc. well the "Computer" icon is an older iMac. I think they should have it be the make and model of the computer you are using (in my case a Power Book G4 15")


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## Quicksilver (Jul 4, 2006)

Veljo said:
			
		

> Err....why?
> 
> 
> Again...why? There are specialised programs that can do this.
> ...





Ohhhh! come on mate! give the guy a break. He has some good ideas and didn't he ask if you had any? Anyway, a true mac user is one with ideas.... Big ideas. Go the ideas man! it can only help.

My idea was to see some windows applications that were built for windows run on a mac without windows. but "wine" is starting to do that now:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060630170338.shtml 

i knew someone would do it sooner or later.


.


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## Giaguara (Jul 4, 2006)

On top of my wishlist would score the encryption with contextual menus. Built in system, not as a software addition...


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## Rogue_Tr00per (Jul 4, 2006)

I agree quicksilver. He (cyprus) has the spark to kick off this thread.

I will say this, there seems to be a air of snobbery with mac users, the idea should be to promote the OSX system to "catch" the XP users and prove to them that there is life outside the "box". I;ve been an Mac engineer for 15 odd years and I always feel a sense of pride when a Windows users see's me Mac and asks what can it do... I give them the tour, I know at least 12 people have now got mac's..


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 4, 2006)

what I think apple should do is start making Official Apple brand programs built into 10.5 like the ones available  for download, but we have to pay for. Like those iTunes lyric finders and the App Zapper. you have to pay for those. have Apple make its own, and include it in 10.5. thats what I say


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 4, 2006)

me too Trooper. here in Cyprus, i am one of only 2 people i know with a mac. when i go to a WiFi zone, everyone with their Sony laptop looks at my G4 and its Apple symbol and just stare! its really cool.


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## nixgeek (Jul 4, 2006)

cyprus mac man said:
			
		

> me too Trooper. here in Cyprus, i am one of only 2 people i know with a mac. when i go to a WiFi zone, everyone with their Sony laptop looks at my G4 and its Apple symbol and just stare! its really cool.



While nothing I have to say corresponds with the title of the thread , I have to answer to this post.

I know exactly what you're talking about.  Not because of me, but because of another classmate in my cohort (doing a working adult study program for my bachelors).  I have my laptop from work which is a crappy HP Compaq nx9010.  The only good thing about it is that it's running Ubuntu Dapper, otherwise I would chuck this faster than my son's lunch after we got back from having lunch at the diner.  Anyways, everyone else in the class had their own Windows laptops turning on and whatnot.....nothing interesting.

Then I hear that familiar "BONNNNNNNGGGG!!!"  Everyone in the class turned around and noticed one of the girls in the class using a PowerBook G4.  It made me feel good to see a Mac user in the class, while at the same time I was a bit envious of her lovely PowerBook.

Apple makes computers that command attention and rightly so.  This is exactly what happens any time a Mac fires up amongst the sea of PC lemmings out there.


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## symphonix (Jul 4, 2006)

I have to say I'm honestly not blown away by many of the suggestions so far. I don't want new themes, though it would be nice to see the look refined and unified a little more, to get a bit of consistency. That hardly seems like an important point, though. Spotlight and Finder could both be refined a fair bit to make them more effective and neat.

It wouldn't surprise me to see iCal, Address Book, Mail and iSync all integrated - though its hard to say what advantage this would actually have.

One thing Apple might look at is providing their own app for Skype / VOIP telephony. I think that it will become a bit more commonplace in a few years, and Apple will want to get it sorted out now.

If I were in charge of mapping out 10.5's new features, I'd start by making it about making it easier to manage information. I'd start by making Spotlight include *context* on search hits - that is to say, if you search for a word and get some documents back, you also see the context in which that word appears in that document, just as you would with a Google search.

The next thing I would do is start working on support for metadata tags for *everything* to tie together, similar to the way you would tie together related items on Flickr or YouTube. Imagine being able to select a photo in iPhoto, or a song in iTunes, or an item in the Finder, and add a tag instantly like "Christmas" or "Melbourne", and then be able to find these files and tags quickly in Finder.

I'd also like to see at least a few day-to-day tasks simplified:

- Scanning in documents and photos needs to be neater. OCR should become an easy-to-use system service. 

- Printing envelopes from Address Book. Seriously, why has this not been done properly yet?

- Keychain Access should be upgraded as more of a "Secure Digital Wallet" type of thing, where users can keep their personal details under lock and key.

- A way to securely encrypt folders built right in to the Finder. Yes, I know there are several ways to do this, but I want to see it become a right-click/File-menu option to "Secure this folder or file with password encryption". That way, people will use it. I also want a way to send secured files built right into Mail.app - and support for authentication/signing (perhaps PGP or GnuPG). Of course, all of this would fly in the face of US export laws, but I'm sure Apple's lawyers could figure out the right way to make it happen.

I know all of my ideas sound pretty bland, but I have had success before with proposing some of my ideas to Apple. I think though that 10.5 is too far into development now for them to start on anything new.


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## CreativeEye (Jul 4, 2006)

Veljo - thats probably the most negative comment i've read on this forum on what is a pretty fun speculative subject for people to throw out ideas.
it was totally unnecesary. pull the stick out ya *ss dude!

what i would like to see:

itunes tabbing - just like in safari, that would make for true 'music browsing' experience. open a genre... then ctrl click on bands etc to open them in a tab so you can continue checking out other bands in the genre. i bet songs sales would rise even more with this simple addition.
_i actually sent this idea to apple via their feedback form!_

its already been mentioned but i too would love to see mail, ical and address book integrated - or a 'pro' version released to sit with 'iwork'.

i want apple to do all the hard work in getting ichat to sign into msn etc - i want apple to make it... well - 'applelike' - just makes the process really easy. ichat will fly, and it'll be goodnight vienna for msn messenger which is poor in comparison to its window counterpart.

i would love to see live icon previews. i work in graphics - i get files in lots of different formats for lots of different versions etc etc - to be able to see exactly what the file is would be awesome. 

i want to see expose move on too - it's changed the way i work with my mac and i would say is one of the best OS ideas. i'm hoping apple are working on something great for the next iteration of expose.

i want to be able to 'find' another mac just like i can find other bluetooth phones with my phone. just 'search' for them. so if im at someones house who has a mac with airport, all i have to do is hit the menu item that says 'search for other macs'. and all you have to do to be found is to check a box in your preferences that says 'let me be seen'. make it secure though - just  like with bluetooth phones - make it compulsory to input a random one off code on each computer to make the link active.

please please apple do something with .mac... it could be so many great things... its on the brink or greatness - it just needs someone at apple to give it a nudge. to make it the 'must have'. if you've got a mac - you've GOT to have .mac.

sorry if some of these things are a bit unclear! just stream of conscience stuff!


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## sinclair_tm (Jul 4, 2006)

what did veljo say to get so flamed?  i see nothing here.

anyway, on to my own ideas.  i would love to see an appearance pref pane, like the appearance control panel of classic days.  i want more than blue and graphite.  aqua is nice, but there is so much more color out there in the ocean.  and why is there only 2 choices there, but the highlight can be anything?  only so many desktop backgrounds can go with 2 colors.  even if they only add base colors (ie black, brown, red, orange, green, yellow, and purple) to the 2, then we'd have a much bigger range of choices to color coordinate the finder.  (btw, i have this same beef with windows xp too.  but vista finally seems to have done something about it far better than i've see implemented anywhere else.)  also, why has apple never added the gui switch to place both scroll arrows at both ends?  we always have to goto some 3rd party to add this easily.  also, os x is far too quite for *ME*.  *I* miss the sounds!  i know they bugged alot of people, but i loved them the instant i heard them.  and it was nice to save my own themes.  and why not make all the pref panes available via a menu like in classic days.  i know most of my ideas can be had via 3rd party software (i have prefsmenu and tinkertool), but it should be part of the os's gui.


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## Qion (Jul 4, 2006)

I would like to see a redesigned Finder with updated Exposé window sorting, 3D transitions to hide/show various elements of the GUI -all practically based-, and maximized Spotlight proficiency a la what symphonix said. I think Apple will somehow intregrate a VOIP/Skype'esque phoning service based on rumors I've seen floating around, and I'm all for the idea. I'd like the Mac to become the multimedia/connectivity powerhouse, assimilating all the modern communications technology we have and bringing it together in a user-moldable package. I'd like to see the NOW version of what Sherlock revolutioned; web search from the desktop, finding people from the desktop, etc. We shouldn't have to open a browser for everything. Oh and speaking of which... Safari should be a nearly optional element. Browsing should be built into Finder and/or the iApps or -more aggresively- an entirely seperate element of the interface, possibly taking off Dashboard's features.


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## fryke (Jul 5, 2006)

Symphonix said: "I don't want new themes, though it would be nice to see the look refined and unified a little more, to get a bit of consistency."

I rather want them to _refine_ the look and unify it, so it's consistent. But I fear they'll do what you suggest PLUS add yet another look in, say, iChat this time. So we'll have Aqua, Brushed Metal, new metal, Unified and "one more look...". Buggers.


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 5, 2006)

one thing I HATE is how confusing Apple makes it for me and my friend to link via WLAN. yes, have it like bluetooth, except faster. also have more available color labels, or chose your own color from the spectrum...thing...

oh, and enough with the page turning icons. lets see, i have a Quicktime MPEG file, several web archives, and 3 .dmg files on my desktop, plus some Word documents. all of them are "page turning" icons. i dont want my Quicktime movie to be a page turning icon. i want it to be like a film strip (well it is a film strip, but make it look like one more). and the .dmg files. page turning + my HD icon. change that too


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## fryke (Jul 5, 2006)

The page-turning icons have a long history - and I'd certainly miss them if they'd go away. But I agree that for QT movies and DMGs, they might not be ideal.


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## symphonix (Jul 5, 2006)

parb.johal@ante said:
			
		

> please please apple do something with .mac... it could be so many great things... its on the brink or greatness - it just needs someone at apple to give it a nudge. to make it the 'must have'. if you've got a mac - you've GOT to have .mac.



I agree wholeheartedly, it could be so much more.



> also, why has apple never added the gui switch to place both scroll arrows at both ends?



You're right. Its one of the first things I change on any new Mac OS X major release, I'd forgotten that it isn't actually a standard option in the prefs.



> is far too {QUIET} for ME. I miss the sounds!



I don't miss the noisy interfaces of the late nineties. But it would be nice to have a little bell icon appear at the end of each progress bar in any program, which would be off by default. That way, if you start a download or a CD burn and notice its going to take more than a few minutes, you just click the little bell icon, and when the progress bar completes you'll hear a "ping".



> i dont want my Quicktime movie to be a page turning icon. i want it to be like a film strip



I 100% wholeheartedly agree. Video files should appear like a film strip with a preview image of the keyframe. So many things have icons that look like "a page" "a piece of paper" or "a sheet of paper with a computer drawn on it" that we really need to rethink about half of our icons. I've always said Microsoft fly in the face of design commonsense by making their icons "W" "X" "P" and "E" letters, which mean nothing to someone who doesn't know what the applications actually are. 

Apple tends to get it right more often than most software companies - their mail program is the only one out there that has stamp and envelope icons associated with it. Sure beats the Windows world where there might be 10 icons in your Quick Launch, none of which have any actual symbolic meaning whatsoever. A lot of the symbols, though, are too technical for most everyday users to recognise (such as the hard disk drive icon).


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## Ferdinand (Jul 5, 2006)

I also agree with the last paragraph of Symphonix. Some icons are really hard to understand if you are not so "technical".
Ferdinand


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## nasha (Jul 5, 2006)

i think that they should intregate a bit-torrent client into safari or even have something to go with the trend like 'itorrent' that would be the best because none of the bit-torrent clients for macs arent very good


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## fryke (Jul 5, 2006)

Well, there are rumours that Apple might integrate Bittorrent technology into iTunes in order to leverage bandwidth costs for iTMS. While I think this should go with bonus points (i.e. if your upload rate is good, you should get free songs for a couple hundred MBs), I think this might be rather tricky for Apple to pull off. Bittorrent uses your network's bandwidth _heavily_, and if Apple uses your bandwidth and CPU, they should certainly pay for this service. 

But I don't see Apple integrating Bittorrent into Safari or creating a specific app for torrents, because at this moment, supporting Bittorrent can't really be in Apple's interest of wooing the biggies in the music and movie industry.


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## CreativeEye (Jul 6, 2006)

on the subject of torrents...

are they really all they are cracked up to be? unless you are a torrent 'fan' and eagerly awaiting someone to upload the latest 24 or lost etc youre pretty much at a loss. if you can find the first season of 24 as a torrent theres not a chance in hell you'll be able to download it, as no-one is 'seeding' it because its old...

torrents are pretty useless as a long term strategy to keep a rolling agenda of software updates / music / movies / etc.

so the 'regular' consumer would have a terrible time / experience with torrents - something i can imagine apple would want to avoid. in fact - i dont think we'll ever see a system level torrent service in any OS.


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## Mikuro (Jul 6, 2006)

Well, with a company like Apple, THEY would always be seeding, just like they are always hosting their web sites. The only difference is that other people would upload, too, to take a bit of the load off Apple's servers.

Personally, I love BitTorrent. But then, I don't really use it for things people use other P2P software for. I use it mostly for fansubs and other "current" things. If you're looking for a way to download a few songs or apps, BT is not for you. But it's great for what it does.


That said, I don't think Apple could use something like BitTorrent for iTMS. Isn't each user's copy of an iTMS song/movie encrypted with DRM? If not, I'm sure there'd be a million and one quick & easy ways to strip the DRM. And if so, then it means there would be very little shared data among users, so anything like BitTorrent would be useless.

Apple could make a BitTorrent tracker for things like software updates, though. Each update to Xcode is about 800MB. BitTorrent would be well-suited for that. Then again, Apple's web servers always scream. I get 500-600K/sec from Apple, which is the best I get anywhere. They don't _need_ BitTorrent. If they implement it, it would be as a cost-cutting measure more than anything else. And the result would probably be a slower, more complicated experience for users.


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## CreativeEye (Jul 6, 2006)

mikuro - your last paragraph sums it up nicely. they simply dont need it.

when was the last time anyone had any serious trouble downloading anything from apples servers? from music track to widgets to pdfs - apple's downloadables are quick. bit torrent would have a detrimental affect on that.

to add to the list of what we'd like to see in 'leopard'... today at work i had to fire up OS9 to use an older version of adobe illustrator... and you know what? at the same resolution that OSX was running at - the menu and finder lists etc were just a lot lot tighter. there was more screen 'real estate'. there seemed to be a better management of screen space as default. so with 10.5 i'd like to see that same tightness in design and implementation.

also - OS9 actually felt really good to be working in!!! though i missed expose!


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## fryke (Jul 6, 2006)

yes, OS 9 was simpler, tighter and quicker. I guess we'll never get these things back, though. It's something you learn over time. Look at cellphones, for example. Task: Go to phonebook, select a contact, initiate a call. I'm pretty sure my ten year old Nokia 5110 would beat my one year old Nokia 9500 in speed. Sure, the communicator has *much* more features etc., but for basic stuff, the much older phone was actually better. Maybe there comes a time when phones get simpler and quicker again, but I guess for OS X, the tendency today is "more 3D, more effects, more features". I'm sure we'll hear about the "250 or 500 new features in Leopard" soon. :/


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## Qion (Jul 6, 2006)

When you put it that way, 250 new features sounds akin to "10% off your performance!". 

:-/


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 7, 2006)

yup, at least until ~10.5.5.


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## powermac (Jul 7, 2006)

Giaguara said:
			
		

> On top of my wishlist would score the encryption with contextual menus. Built in system, not as a software addition...



Yes. I miss those features. More radical idea is a tab dock. One could label each tab, and have it as one continuous Dock, kinda like in Gnome. 

As rumored, I like the idea of ical and mail all in one.

I would like to see more customizing. As some one mentioned, the return of sounds like in OS9.


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## vincentpace (Jul 7, 2006)

A couple quick suggestions...

*Mail*: Display not just email but also chat histories and other communications. A plug-in architecture of some sort would do the trick nicely. Third party developers could keep their files where they want and with a program have access to them in both Mail and that third party program. This would go for textual chat logs (from, e.g., iChat, Adium, MSN, Yahoo!, etc.) but also audio and video logs (from, e.g., iChat via Ecamm's Conference Recorder, Skype via Ecamm's Call Recorder, Gizmo, etc.). It could also note calls from a Bluetooth phone even if no log is there. Then I could see everything that went on between me and person without flipping through half a dozen different apps to see the last place I communicated with them.

*Address Book*: Along this line, Address Book could add a pane to the window (perhaps a 4th pane all the way on the right?) that contains what is basically an advanced Spotlight search of the contact. Open up a contact, and bam, right there are all your emails, chat logs, pictures, files, etc. that are related to the contact. No need to bumble around trying to find something - it's all right there.

*Facial and other image recognition*: If Riya.com can do it for pictures you upload to their website, why can't Apple do it in OS X? Or why can't Apple just buy Riya.com? Combine this with by Address Book suggestion above, and you go to any contact and have a complete list of all the pics they are in right there. And while we're at it, voice and facial recognition for movies (seems simple enough if you just take frames and use them as a picture) should be thrown in as well. That will take care of the need to figure out which of the 6 people who lived at your home called you at work in your audio chat log.

*Uniform use of folders*: iPhoto, iTunes, Mail and Address Book all take different approaches to handling folders and nesting. In iPhoto and iTunes, smart and regular playlists/albums can be contained in the same folders and display all items contained within. In Mail, smart mailboxes can't go in folders and nexted folders behave like the Finder, only showing what's in that folder and not what's below. Address Book doesn't even have folders (and storing one group within another is a poor substitute). These should all be unified to behave like iTunes and iPhoto.


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## MacFreak (Jul 7, 2006)

I would love if they add "Fast OS Switch" similiar to "Fast User Switch" So we can switch to different OS without shut down and make choice which OS. That what i am suspecting that Apple is working on it.


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## clamshellibooks (Jul 9, 2006)

I love the iTMS, but one thing that defintely seems to be missing is a customizable User page. It would be really neat to have on the right side of the Home page, a link to a page you customize and put your favorite artists and genres and have the latest songs and videos you like in there. I don't know the best way they could design in, but I just imagine that on every artists page, a link will say "Add Artist to your page".

One little gripe I have with the iTMS is that some of the artists pages need to be updated ever since they added videos. Some have an extra link to a single video thats broken. and whats the deal with people with iTunes essentials that havent even made that many records?? i could see it for people who are long retired and have made a crazy amount of hits. lol buts thats just me complaining. so yeah a nice little user page would be kinda a neat feature.

oh and one last thing, i just was wondering what people thought of the JUST FOR YOU beta. its useless to me, but is it a nice feature for other people? jw


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 11, 2006)

I like the idea of a "Super" Application for Address book, but what I would like is ADVANCED music editing for Garage Band. what would be awsome would have iTunes music be able to transfer to Garage Band and then Garage Band can edit them. its like Garage Band's "Export to iTunes", so it would say in iTunes "Export to Garage Band".

the tech to do that probably exsits when there are scanners that can turn your hand written note book notes into Word documents on the computer


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## fryke (Jul 11, 2006)

That's not quite the same thing, cyprusmacman.  ... You _can_ take any song from iTMS and use it as a sample. (Through burning it to a CD and then importing that somehow. But then you can't change it. And you're of course in legal trouble if you want to actually _do_ anything with it. But to _change_ it would mean to have the single tracks from the song. No can do, really.


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## Ferdinand (Jul 11, 2006)

MacFreak said:


> I would love if they add "Fast OS Switch" similiar to "Fast User Switch" So we can switch to different OS without shut down and make choice which OS. That what i am suspecting that Apple is working on it.



That already exists. In the System Preferences, go to Accounts and then Login Options. There you can enable Fast User Switching.


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## fryke (Jul 11, 2006)

Nope. He said and meant *OS* switching.


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## Ferdinand (Jul 11, 2006)

Sorry, missread it...


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## Quicksilver (Jul 11, 2006)

MacFreak said:


> I would love if they add "Fast OS Switch" similiar to "Fast User Switch" So we can switch to different OS without shut down and make choice which OS. That what i am suspecting that Apple is working on it.



Your definatley onto somthing there MacFreak. This would be a real top seller for macs too, and people would have somthing like "two for the price of one". If Apple does implement this it will strategically position them as the real leader in the computer industry because they will have an advantage over other computer/software manufacturers offering two operating systems (providing customer chioce) for the price of one. And without any emulation software, etc.

Let's see how Apple goes with it. Like i've mentioned before Boot Camp is only a baby now and is surley bound to flourish soon, its too good of an opportunity not to. Just like the pre-iTunes music player included into MAC OS X 10.0 or 10.1 and then evolved into the iTunes as we have it today.


.


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## Qion (Jul 11, 2006)

I'd love to cube over to Windows. Well, let me rephrase that. I'd love for *people* to be able to cube over to Windows. That way, you'd really, really get the difference between the OS's right there in your immediate attention. OS X looks marvelously superior next to the current XP system, and I'm guessing Leopard will look/feel better than Vista also. You'd also have all your iApps on the Mac side of things, and maybe your Office apps on the Windows side of things. Mac is fun, Windows is work.

It would stick.


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## sheepguy42 (Jul 11, 2006)

So many people keep talking about an Address Book/Mail/iCal/whatever hybrid. I don't get it; the Mozilla people finally figured out that having one giant bloated app isn't necessarily a good idea, hence we have FireFox, ThunderBird, and things like them (Nvu, and I don't recall the calendar app's name...). I _*love *_the way Apple segregates functions into their appropriate apps. I also _*love *_the level of integration between them. I really want to see a more user-friendly implementation of Services. Seriously, you can select an email address and open Mail with a new message to that address, you can access Address Book info in Mail and iCal and iChat, you can do all sorts of wonderful things already. But if all you want to do is read your email, you don't have to wait for the software to deal with a ton of data you have no interest in at the moment. For me, that's the beauty of the MacOS: I can do EXACTLY what I want, and not have the computer try to second-guess me. I hate Outlook/Entourage because of these exact situations: sometimes I only want to do stuff with my calendar, or just Mail, or even just Address Book. I think, if anything, the built-in apps need to be able to have more 2-way integration with each other. 

I really liked the idea about Safari being more like Dashboard or fust integrated into the Finder; it would streamline the interface even more, and further distinguish it from 3rd party browsers. I would also love to not have to enable the debugging mode in Dashboard just to be able to keep my widgets on the desktop all the time. What's the use of a VLC remote if you need to bring up the whole Dashboard environment to see it? I know about Amnesty Widget Browser, and the rotating/resizing/transparency features are neat, but if all I'm using is the "keep them on the desktop" part, I shouldn't have to use 3rd party software for it any more than I should for the "double arrows at both ends of the scrollbars" bit.

One more thing: I love ideas for future Apple Products, but if you have an idea for an iApp, could you either find or make a thread for that topic? I'm reading a thread titled "Mac OS X 10.5 ideas," and yet I keep seeing ideas for iTunes (or GarageBand). Maybe I'm just sleepy, but it's confusing me. Not trying to push buttons here, just like to keep thoughts organized.


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## Mikuro (Jul 12, 2006)

Sheepguy, I agree with you about bloatware. Personally, I see no reason to merge Mail and iCal. They're two completely different programs. At this point I don't even use Mail, so why should I need to load it to access my calendar? Everything's lean and organized the way it is.

But you lost me with your "integrated Safari" wish. Seems to me like that would be the ultimate bloat. Apple should not pull a Microsoft and try to make their non-essential applications unavoidable. What if I don't like Safari? Why should it be built into my Finder? And considering how often Safari unexpectedly quits, I'm very, very glad it's an isolated program. That's perhaps one of the biggest reasons why bloat/integration is a bad thing: if one of the integrated tasks goes wrong, it screws with all the others!

I also rarely, if ever, want to organize my files while browsing the web. They're two different tasks that deserve their own environments.


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## fryke (Jul 12, 2006)

I've read somewhere that Phil Schiller said BootCamp won't go the virtualization way. That it's about dual booting after all. And I think Apple - sadly - will keep it that way. That'd mean _no_ cube effect switching between OSs. (The Cube effect alone would mean that OS X is still loaded and not suspended.) They _could_ however actually suspend the OSs instead of powering them down completely. This way, you'd get back where you were, although with a little more time than it takes for a Cube effect.

BootCamp only a baby... Well: It's simply a partitioning tool with an added script that changes your startup volume! And my _guess_ is they will refine the partitioning features. And maybe add updated drivers for the hardware running in Windows. But that's about it. Sadly.

Then again: There's Parallels Desktop, and CodeWeavers' solution is said to be final this month as well. So if a user doesn't like Apple's solution, there _are_ others to be found. People dream of running 3D Windows games while still in OS X: This won't happen until not only the CPUs, but also the GPUs have virtualisation features. As long as you have to "pass through" the graphics from main machine to virtual machine, you won't get many fps in recent games.


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## Satcomer (Jul 12, 2006)

With everyone concentrating on Parallels it seems like everyone in the Macintosh world has forgotten Microsoft BU's VPC. I bet they soon will be coming out with a VPC for Intel running like Parallels but with every driver loaded and optimized to use some, if not most, 3D games.


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 12, 2006)

what about DVD Player being able to play all region DVDs and not having to switch. or have Apple let you switch an unlimited number of times. i dont like having to go to 3rd party software (even if it is free) like VLC to do what Apple is to lazy to do. just stop the junk and let me play my international DVDs!!


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## Mikuro (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd really like to see Apple open up their APIs a bit more. For example, the windowing system. As it is, it's very hard (if not impossible) for third parties to write software that does the things Apple does with the Dock (like Exposé and window minimizing and whatnot). Also, I can't understand why Apple tries so hard to keep third parties from making standard menu extras. All it does is reduce consistency! I wish Apple would make all this functionality freely accessible to developers.

I'd also like to see Apple split the Dock into three or four different processes. Right now, the Dock handles far more than it ought to: volume control, the Dashboard, Exposé, etc. This makes it very hard for developers to replace or override any of these things, because the Dock is so closed up and virtually impossible to disable. I'd like to be able to completely turn off the Dock (that is, the bar with the icons) if I want to, but since the Dock process controls all those other things I can't do without, I couldn't afford to turn it off even if it were technically possible. And since it uses private APIs to do most of the things it does, I can't find (or make) third-party substitutes, either. Boooo!



cyprus mac man said:


> what about DVD Player being able to play all region DVDs and not having to switch. or have Apple let you switch an unlimited number of times. i dont like having to go to 3rd party software (even if it is free) like VLC to do what Apple is to lazy to do. just stop the junk and let me play my international DVDs!!


I don't think it's that Apple's lazy, but rather that their hands are tied legally. There are all sorts of stupid regulations on DVD playback &#8212; that's why the region system exists in the first place. This has never been a technical issue; companies go _out of their way_ to impose these limitations because they're required to. I'm not sure exactly how VLC gets away with it, but I imagine it has something to do with the fact that they don't make or distribute DVD playback hardware, and thus are not subject to all these rules are regulations.

I'm not an expert on this, though, so it's possible my understanding is outdated or just plain wrong.


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## whitesaint (Jul 13, 2006)

Mikuro said:


> I'd really like to see Apple open up their APIs a bit more. For example, the windowing system. As it is, it's very hard (if not impossible) for third parties to write software that does the things Apple does with the Dock (like Exposé and window minimizing and whatnot). Also, I can't understand why Apple tries so hard to keep third parties from making standard menu extras. All it does is reduce consistency! I wish Apple would make all this functionality freely accessible to developers.



The API's have been open for quite some time,  CoreImage basically does the dashboard effect.  CoreImage/CoreVideo have been open to developers for a while now, while CoreAudio has been open to developers since 10.1.  I've been able to get windows to do pretty cool things and believe me, Apple doesn't cripple the developer in any way.  And the Status Items in the menu bar are super easy to make.


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## Rogue_Tr00per (Jul 14, 2006)

I would like to change the OS on install to "easy mode" for new users to the OS (ex windows), or Office mode for normal users. Then there would be a "Power" mode for the Mac nuts, with the utills and admin apps to hand. Also allowing admin to change the easy mode to Office mode, with minimum config..


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## fryke (Jul 14, 2006)

I think three stages would be too much. "Office" is not really a good moniker, anyway, because the "middle" in a Macintosh user would less be the office user but rather the desktop publisher.  ... But I, too, would like to see clearer differences between a "simple" and an "advanced" user. Could be interface differences etc. Permissions-differences are already there, of course. The admin can limit the users quite easily.


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## Rogue_Tr00per (Jul 14, 2006)

Granted, what  I was getting at is the idea of models, say you wanted a simple no BS layout, then a standard like OSX is now, then an advance setup with every tool needed but to hand..Just a first power on.


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## sheepguy42 (Jul 17, 2006)

Mikuro said:


> Sheepguy, I agree with you about bloatware...At this point I don't even use Mail, so why should I need to load it to access my calendar?


Cool, somebody agrees with me about something  And your example is exactly the type of situation I'm talking about.



> But you lost me with your "integrated Safari" wish. Seems to me like that would be the ultimate bloat. Apple should not pull a Microsoft and try to make their non-essential applications unavoidable. What if I don't like Safari? Why should it be built into my Finder? And considering how often Safari unexpectedly quits, I'm very, very glad it's an isolated program.
> 
> I also rarely, if ever, want to organize my files while browsing the web. They're two different tasks that deserve their own environments.


I see your point about the finder integration. However, I want to clarify something: what I was asking for (in an incorrectly worded way) wasn't so much an integration of _Safari_ so much as more use of WebCore. I would agree that the Finder's uses and Safari's uses are wildly different; on the other hand, I could see revamped FTP and general file server access by utilizing WebCore abilities in the Finder. In other words, I don't really want Safari to be integrated into the FinderI want something that already is part of the OS to be used more extensively. Several third party browsers already use WebCore as part of their functionality; surely WebCore is useful outside of browsing the WWW.


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## magilum (Jul 26, 2006)

It'd be great if Apple would fix the network bug I've been seeing since I started using Tiger (on various machines). I've attached a file, from an article I'd meant to write about it, demonstrating the strange behavior.

I'd also like to have more control over the Dock. The automatic hide/show is awkward and annoying. I'd rather be able to hide it until invoked by a specific command or by clicking on something.


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## symphonix (Jul 26, 2006)

MacFreak said:


> I would love if they add "Fast OS Switch" similiar to "Fast User Switch" So we can switch to different OS without shut down and make choice which OS. That what i am suspecting that Apple is working on it.



I disagree. It would not benefit Apple to actually encourage users to switch back to Windows. I'm sure Boot Camp will grow, and be made faster and easier to use. But Apple should be working on making all those Windows switchers *want to stay* in Mac OS X.



			
				CyprusMacMan said:
			
		

> what would be awsome would have iTunes music be able to transfer to Garage Band and then Garage Band can edit them. its like Garage Band's "Export to iTunes", so it would say in iTunes "Export to Garage Band".



I regularly drag songs into GarageBand from iTunes. Its a simple drag and drop operation, provided there is no DRM on the songs. Since I have ripped all of my songs directly from CDs, its no problem.



			
				SheepGuy said:
			
		

> I really liked the idea about Safari being more like Dashboard or fust integrated into the Finder; it would streamline the interface even more



Apple will be avoiding this. Historically it has proven to be unwise to integrate browsers into the operating system. It cost Microsoft dearly in legal battles right through the 90s simply because they integrated the browser too much - it was anti-competitive behaviour to make it more difficult for the user to use a different browser. I know times have changed, but I think all the players in the industry are now careful not to make that same mistake again.



			
				Mikuro said:
			
		

> I also rarely, if ever, want to organize my files while browsing the web. They're two different tasks that deserve their own environments.



Yes!



			
				RogueTrooper said:
			
		

> I would like to change the OS on install to "easy mode" for new users to the OS (ex windows), or Office mode for normal users. Then there would be a "Power" mode for the Mac nuts, with the utills and admin apps to hand. Also allowing admin to change the easy mode to Office mode, with minimum config..



Anyone else remember OS/2 Warp? That was a hard lesson to learn, but we learnt it. Believe me, Apple are better off trying to get one interface spot-on perfect, without trying to make the user work in different "modes".


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## magilum (Jul 26, 2006)

It'd also be cool to be able to jump to the corresponding directory in the Finder from an open or save dialog.

How about a 'cut' feature added to the file copy and paste available in the Finder?

What good are search results when you can't sort them properly? How about complete sorting capabilities in the Finder search results windows?


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## fryke (Jul 26, 2006)

sheepguy42 said:


> I would agree that the Finder's uses and Safari's uses are wildly different; on the other hand, I could see revamped FTP and general file server access by utilizing WebCore abilities in the Finder. In other words, I don't really want Safari to be integrated into the FinderI want something that already is part of the OS to be used more extensively.



But WebCore doesn't really do FTP at all. I'd say we need FTP handled like WebDAV in the Finder - but there's no need to do that through WebCore. I think Microsoft has shown extensively that it can be a *very* bad idea to integrate the webbrowser with the file browser. If anything, WebCore should be as isolated from the rest of the system as practical.
But I agree that the Finder's FTP support must become, well, full FTP support. While I like Fetch as my FTP client, I'd probably ditch it the moment the Finder _writes_ to (S)FTP servers as well.


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## chevy (Jul 27, 2006)

I prefer CyberDuck for FTP.

my 10.5 cents ? 
-Windows compatibility (still requiring a full Windows license), 
-multidesktop using the mini-ball of the MightyMouse, 
-Mail/iCal/iChat/Address better integration (all with direct web access through .mac - similar to Google approach, but not a built into single application)

just my 10.5 cents.


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## winterdude (Jul 27, 2006)

Some sort of device manager, where you could see the drivers installed on your computer.


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## fryke (Jul 27, 2006)

You mean like a "System Profiler.app" you'd find in /Applications/Utilities/ ...


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## chevy (Jul 27, 2006)

.... maybe with the addition of an upgrade/downgrade/enable/disable capability ....


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 27, 2006)

system restore.  windows has had it for 5 years now.  when i bugger up my computer, there's no easy and ultimately little way of just putting it back.

system restore.


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## winterdude (Jul 27, 2006)

ya, something like that, with the additions that chevy said


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## chevy (Jul 28, 2006)

And other nice techies tricks....

But the main improvement should be a unified style, either based on a style preference selector or a single style, but *unified*.


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## cyprus mac man (Jul 29, 2006)

right now, since i am living in cyprus, at my house i cant get any good/fast internet like ADSL, so i have to settle for Dial-up. also, i like to listen to my iTunes music while I am surfing the web. BUT there is one problem, the Internet Connect app. why cant there be a "Mute" button on it so i dont have to pause my songs on iTunes while I get all those crazy dial-up noises. That would be awesome. and hey, i am not asking for even a volume control, just a simple mute. thats all


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## Lt Major Burns (Jul 29, 2006)

there are settings in the network set up in the system preferences for dial up that you can silence the modem, depending on your modem.


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## McSedgley (Jul 31, 2006)

Lt Major Burns said:


> system restore.  windows has had it for 5 years now.  when i bugger up my computer, there's no easy and ultimately little way of just putting it back.
> 
> system restore.



It would be nice if it works too.  I've never managed to get it to work on Windows.


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## McSedgley (Jul 31, 2006)

fryke said:


> But I agree that the Finder's FTP support must become, well, full FTP support. While I like Fetch as my FTP client, I'd probably ditch it the moment the Finder _writes_ to (S)FTP servers as well.



This would be a most useful feature - direct ftp rather than through a client
like transmit or fetch.

And rather than just more eye candy stuff - they need to sort out 'mail' and the way it handles vector eps files - it just seems to hang when it tries to display them.


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## Ifrit (Jul 31, 2006)

Somebody should fix this overstretched icon in 10.5 - its driving me nuts.







Utilization of more than 3 mouse buttons is quite limited. I want to assign the functions to additional mouse buttons without the help of third party apps. The same could apply to every HID you connect. 

Another addition should be the support of h-scroll functionality of current mouse models. 

Allow me to to create my own keyboard layout or offer additional layouts. Currently I am using a no name USB keyboard. Of course it has a slightly different layout than the traditional mac keyboard. I am sure new (german) users (who bought the mini for example) are wondering why the are unable to create the @ character with their keyboard. Not everybody knows to use "option + L". I am also unable to create a reverse slash on a traditional german keyboard which is often used while working with the *nix command line/apps and the terminal. (For example to introduce special characters in file names and folders)

Integrate the Audio-Midi configuration program in the sound preference pane. Make it a "advanced" tab or something. 

As others already said, the unification of the styles would be neat. I know that every program has something like a own methaphor for achieving certain things, but we still deal with lots of different interfaces/styles - this could be avoided. For example some of the pro apps look like being risen from the OS9 grave. Sometimes Apple even went against it own aqua guidelines. Remember the paragraph about "not using an aqua button in order to create a contex menu". Yeah...






edit:

A plug-in architecture for Front Row would be awesome. Imagine eyetv integration in Frontrow, or support from other third party developers which could integrate their own solution. This would make the mac mini (or every mac which runs Front Row) a awesome HTPC.

Maybe not entirely related to OSX, but to iTunes.

I am just wondering - If the ipod is connected to a mac or the PC... Why are the playback options (iPod content) so limited? You can't do party shuffle with the content on the iPod. You can't share it's content like the iTunes library. You can't even play music/videos stored on your iPod in Frontrow. Why isn't that possible? Honestly, its not the case that I try to "redistribute" the music. Before anybody argues, I see no reason to store my music on two different places (and wasting additional HD space by doing so)


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## chevy (Aug 1, 2006)

Ifrit said:


> ...
> As others already said, the unification of the styles would be neat. I know that every program has something like a own methaphor for achieving certain things, but we still deal with lots of different interfaces/styles - this could be avoided. For example some of the pro apps look like being risen from the OS9 grave. Sometimes Apple even went against it own aqua guidelines. Remember the paragraph about "not using an aqua button in order to create a contex menu". Yeah...
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Ifrit for this very interesting list of points. Indeed the print dialog is very "bizarre". As you mention the PDF button should not go to a pull-down menu but to a new dialog window, and the third pull-down menu should not be a pull-down menu but a series of tabs showing different sub-dialogs. This print dialog being used quite often it really needs to be reworked ASAP.


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## fryke (Aug 1, 2006)

On the other hand: It works. I rather see them fix things that _don't_ work first.


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## Ifrit (Aug 1, 2006)

> On the other hand: It works. I rather see them fix things that _don't_ work first.



Yeah I know, but if Apple keeps doing the "Whats wrong? It works." way we end up with a UI disaster like Windows. Please, don't get the wrong impression, I am able to get all the things I need, to work within the Win OS, but not exactly in a elgant way.

To be honest I don't know exactly how the additional PDF functions in the printer dialogue could be integrated without creating a mess of new dialogues or cluttering up the printer dialogue. 

IMO the "export to PDF option" should be a new entry in the program's main menu all together. Its not exactly "printing". The addional functions make it worthwhile for this feature to to embeded it in a seperate dialogue. Maybe Apple could create a export dialogue like the one found in iWork and Pages. Make it available for all the apps which are able to send informations to the printer. This way you can get rid of the double entry in the iWork apps. (You can convert your document to pdf with the print dialogue and you can convert to pdf with the export dialogue)

edit:

And often I don't want to export my document to pdf, sometimes I want to create image files. Some of my coworker's machines are not capable to display *.pdf, but they can view *.jpg, *.png files just fine. (and they can't change this behaviour because they don't have the necessary rights to install new programs)


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## chevy (Aug 1, 2006)

fryke said:


> On the other hand: It works. I rather see them fix things that _don't_ work first.



Yes, it "works", but I have lost lot of time going through this stupid 3rd pull-down menu when I would have found my target parameter much faster with tabs. And frankly, Windows "works" too.... if you have time to find out how the "advanced" parameter of the print setup is expected to operate.


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## MacFreak (Aug 2, 2006)

fryke said:


> I've read somewhere that Phil Schiller said BootCamp won't go the virtualization way. That it's about dual booting after all. And I think Apple - sadly - will keep it that way. That'd mean _no_ cube effect switching between OSs. (The Cube effect alone would mean that OS X is still loaded and not suspended.) They _could_ however actually suspend the OSs instead of powering them down completely. This way, you'd get back where you were, although with a little more time than it takes for a Cube effect.



Well well.. 

They tend to denied about new product. They like to keep it surpises for us. For example in past that everyone want to ipod video. Steven Jobs said its too early to have this since video online is not good market. Apple end up release new ipod video within two months later. I am sure that Apple will surpised us. 

Just wait till this Aug 7th

Funny thing that My father worked for NuTek inc of Mac Clone/PC that allow everyone to run PC and Mac applicatons on NuTek. Apple sued NuTek and forced to shut down. It was in 1990 something.


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