# What can I do with this thing?



## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Okay, I recently asked a friend "hey, got any computers I can have?" and he kind of laughed at me, and then said yeah, I have this Mac G4 you can have if you pay shipping. I was skeptical, but I said, sure why not. So a week later I get a package from Fed Ex, its a tower G4, but I started looking for specs, like any geek would. I run across a sticker, and it tells me this:

Apple PowerMac G4 350mhz
128mb PC100 RAM
10gb HD
DVD-ROM
AGP Graphics

So, I think to myself, what can I do with this thing? I've never owned an Apple, and I've definitely no clue how fast a 350mhz is going to be. Currently it has OS 9 on it, but it needs a reinstall, as I think the guy who owned it before be had no clue either, he's deleted/moved network extensions etc etc, and left his password on it. *sigh* So there it sits, a little 350mhz Sawtooth G4 on my floor, with no purpose. 

What can I do with this thing? Let me know.


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## Zammy-Sam (May 5, 2004)

If you add some more ram (which I would surely do) and make a fresh install of macos 9, you can get a very nice mac for web-browsing, routing, filesharing (if you increase the storage and have other lan comps) and office apps such as apple works. It will cover most of your needs if you are no poweruser..


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Or you could get more RAM as Sam suggested, and install OS X on it. That's probably a better OS for you anyway. More 'windows-like' puke.
It's easier to use, but it has a lot more potential for poweruse later.
Another you could consider is a CPU upgrade. I think there are some out there that could push it up above 1GHz


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## scruffy (May 5, 2004)

Zammy-sam is quite right about OS 9.  Also, if you don't mind springing for some new software, it will run OS X quite comfortably.  Nothing spectacular, but it'll be perfectly alright - I'm using a 300 MHz G3.  If you're going to go with OS X, definitely get more RAM.  OS X makes very good use of RAM; that can make more difference than the CPU.

It will of course also run a Linux or BSD if you would prefer a free Unix OS.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Hey scruffy, is it just me, or did we suggest almost the same thing?


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Here's the biggie, I'm awfully poor. lol. I checked out processor upgrades, and it seems like I'd be better off buying a new eMac than trying to upgrade this thing. As far as memory goes, I read that it will _run_ OS X, maybe not very fast, but it will work, with 128mb. The ATI Rage 128 16mb that's in it won't do much with QE but the machine seems to run quite fine with OS 9. The fact of the matter is, I got this machine to learn on, and jut mess with. I was really hoping to get iTunes running on it, but we'll see about that. OS X is a tad expensive, even with my student discount. So I'm not sure what I'll be doing just yet. There is the matter of the broken OS 9 install thats on the machine. The guy I got it from left his password on it, and I can't even get in to _try_ and get the network running on it. I think the lithium bios battery is also dead, the time never stays right. I'm going to mess around with the user account for now, but I hope I can get this thing running well enough for browsing, instant messaging, and maybe some programming. I am a Computer Science major at the local university, and the Apple geeks are trying to switch me, what can I say? 

Thanks for the quick responses, but for now my biggest issue is getting a monitor that is dedicated to the thing. Right now I'm doing the good ole, crawl and plug to mess with it. Hehe.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Question: did it come with the OS 9 install CDs? If so, don't try messing with the broken install, just redo it.


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## andychrist (May 5, 2004)

Seeing as you payed only for shipping, you may be one of the few who could actually come out ahead by upgrading, if you ever get the bucks.  Check out http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ and take a look at all you can do and how much it would cost.  In addition to RAM you might find a lower powered, "good enough" processor upgrade on ebay or DealMac that would allow you to run OSX more enjoyably, though even at 350 MHz on a G4 Panther is okay.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Oh, and by the way, Apples don't go out of date very fast. What you have there is still a very potent system capable of doing many things; don't be put off by the low clock speed . If your intent is to use iTunes, I would seriously recommend you upgrade to OS X ASAP because the coolest features in iTunes are only available in version 4. The latest version for OS 9 is 2. See what I mean?


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Well, the machine came with no cd's, and no manuals. So I guess I'm out of luck as far as that reinstall goes. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy, maybe he'll give me that password and I can get this sucker online. 

If I were to upgrade, how fast should I go with it?

As far as memory, is it just standard PC100 memory that I could, theoretically, pick out of just about any machine from the 90's? 

So I guess what I need to do is get a copy of OS X, if for nothing else, just to get Xcode and such. Hmm.

Even a copy of OS 9 would be nice to own right now... 

About that, how does the formatting process work on these? I'm guessing you just boot off the cd and away it goes, but even doing that I haven't a clue.

Anyways, I have it hooked up to my fathers 19" monitor, and that's making it look awfully special. 

[Edit] Just looked that that xlr8 site, and well, I don't see any upgrades for the 350mhz G4 AGP. Maybe I'm blind, but they seem to start at 400mhz and go up.


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## andychrist (May 5, 2004)

You can reformat from Disk Utility when booting from the install CD of either OS 9 and X, it is really pretty self explanatory from there.  Just keep the default, Extended mode format to set up the Volume.

My crappy little 500 MHz G4 upgrade is fast enough for me, but if you ever got QE working you might want to shoot for at least an 800MHz, if you were interested in iLife or some other demanding apps.  But the first thing to do is beef up that RAM, as 128 Mb is the bare minimum just to boot OS X.  Really, 512 Mb or more is preferred, though you might be able to get away with only 256 Mb or so for a while.

Oh, just saw your edit, here ya go.

http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upg...I=#TimeFormat(Now(),+&shoupgrds=Show+Upgrades


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

If you start up with Extensions off (press shift while booting, I believe), that should bypass the log in, I *think*. Or is it just the multi-user login system? I don't have OS nine installed any more, anyone able to correct me?


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

It's multi user, but I'll go try that. I remember that working back in the days of G3's.


[Edit] Tried it, still wants the Multi User password.


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## andychrist (May 5, 2004)

Here's a perhaps stupid question: seeing that you are at university and being pressed by your fellow geeks to go Mac, may not either they or the university hold an academic license that would lawfully allow you to install from their CDs?  Also I think there is a hack to enable the Rage Pro for QE, as 16 Mb meets minimum requirement.


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## nixgeek (May 5, 2004)

If you have (or can save up) some money, see if you can find a card that will work on a PCI slot on that Mac (I think this version of the G4 was PCI only).  ATI has some nice PCI video cards...in fact, here's a link to a RADEON 9200 card with 128 MB RAM.

You could also go with NVIDIA. Here's another link from MacMall.

Quartz Extreme should be supported under these cards, if I'm not mistaken...


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## andychrist (May 5, 2004)

Take a look at this perhaps outdated but possibly still accurate page on upgrading the graphics card on your model of Sawtooth: 

http://www.barefeats.com/sawgraf.html 

But again, the card you have now should at least be able to support QE, even if it does leave something to be desired.


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

It's an AGP PowerMac, it's got a 2x AGP slot in it. I checked. 

ATI has some nice cards, but they all cost around 4x as much as their PC counterparts... 

Of course, I am strongly considering this Geforce 4 MX card that is under 50$... but I need to get a job if I'm going to buy anything. 

All I really need right now is some possible way to get the OS cds. 

Maybe I can find an old copy of OS 9 at a discount store or something...

Maybe I'll hit up my friends about the license, and maybe the guy who sent it to me has OS 9 around somewhere.


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## Lycander (May 5, 2004)

Install Linux on it.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Note that if you're not too worried about the warrantee you can sometimes 'flash' PC video cards to make them work on a Mac...


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

*laugh* On the Linux note, that has been considered. T'would make it a very usable machine indeed. However, resourcefulness may prevail. I might be able to get OS X by the end of the week. I think I'll just give it a whirl with its current configuration, and hope for the best. Right now its just sitting there, so I'd rather have a slow, but updated machine rather than an outdated OS and killer fast apps. Plus, I still love iTunes. lol.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Great! Welcome to Mac-hood!


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## nixgeek (May 5, 2004)

abyssknight said:
			
		

> *laugh* On the Linux note, that has been considered. T'would make it a very usable machine indeed. However, resourcefulness may prevail. I might be able to get OS X by the end of the week. I think I'll just give it a whirl with its current configuration, and hope for the best. Right now its just sitting there, so I'd rather have a slow, but updated machine rather than an outdated OS and killer fast apps. Plus, I still love iTunes. lol.



Well, it might not be iTunes, but RhythmBox isn't all that bad.  It tries to be iTunes and it's decent enough, but true that there's nothing like iTunes...


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

What distro would you suggest, in case this doesnt work?


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## nixgeek (May 5, 2004)

I would recommend Yellow Dog Linux.  You can also try Gentoo or Debian.  Expect a text mode installer with Debian.  They're working on an installer that takes the brunt of the installation and selects the default for most items in order to speed up the install process.  However, that won't be available until "sarge" becomes the stable distribution. ("Sarge" is the next version of Debian Linux...the current stable tree is "woody."  Think Toy Story )

There's also Mandrake (which I don't recommend for PPC, but others here might), Slackintosh (which is an unofficial port of x86 Slackware), and SuSE.

Here are the links:

Yellow Dog linux

Debian

Gentoo

Mandrake

Slackintosh

SuSE

You can also try FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD if Linux isn't your cup of tea...


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## scruffy (May 5, 2004)

OpenBSD works on Macs?  I didn't know that.  Now I could go all paranoid-aggressive without having to spring for different hardware  

dlloyd - not only did we suggest the same thing, we suggested it simultaneously - look at the times of our posts.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

I know, that was funny .


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## Randman (May 5, 2004)

Ask the Mac folks in your computer lab to help with the problem. They'll be able to experiment on a live Mac and you'll learn something in the process while being able to reap the rewards.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Well, if they don't already have Macs of their own (yeah, right ) they should be thrilled to actually have one to play on


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Well, I should be able to try an install of OS X tomorrow, any tips?

So far all I know is, put the CD in and hold C at startup. 

So anything would be helpful.

Still no monitor, no upgrades. I'm going to try and do this cold turkey.

The worst that could happen is, it doesn't work, or it runs slow. 

I'm prepared for either really.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Yay!

It will work, and it won't run (too) slow. What version are you going to use?
Also, I would do a Clean Install, not an archive, and you should reformat the hard drive before you install (can be done from the Installer CD).


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Looks like panther will be it, I'll give it a shot in the morning.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Then you might even consider 'Zeroing the drive', which can also be done in the Panther installer.


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

I should clarify, zeroing the drive overwrites all data on the drive, not just deleting the catalog file. This means that anything that was on the drive is totally gone. I think it's just a bit safer when starting with a new OS. Likewise I always reformat and do clean installs, I am no fan of update installations


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Hrm, I just read another thread... Something about updating the firmware before installing OS X. This would mean I would have to install the OS 9.1 update, meaning I still need that darned password...

Is this true?


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## dlloyd (May 5, 2004)

Check on the Apple support site. I know the old iMacs have to be updated (found that out the hard way), but I don't know about the old G4s.


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## abyssknight (May 5, 2004)

Yep, the AGP Graphics Power Mac needs the update. OS X doesn't happen to come with a 9.2 cd does it?


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## abyssknight (May 6, 2004)

Woot. I've installed OS X, seems to boot FASTER than 9.1 (Update) did. It's installing software now, I'll let everyone know just how fast it really is after I reboot.


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## abyssknight (May 6, 2004)

Whoever said this would run slow, shame on you. It's amazingly fast. Actually, I beg to say its faster than my 1.1ghz laptop with 512mb of ram in it. Seriously, I'm shocked.


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## dlloyd (May 6, 2004)

That laptop is a PC, right? Then may I be permitted to say 'duh!'? 

And yes, after XP, Panther is the fastest-booting OS I've ever used, I love it. Even though my computer is *never* shut down 

So as a Mac OS X newbie (), did you run Software Update yet?


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## abyssknight (May 6, 2004)

Yes, it automatically did it, and I must say... it's amazing. I'm going to see whats on Disc 3 now...


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## dlloyd (May 6, 2004)

Good stuff.

Have fun, and visit here often!


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## symphonix (May 6, 2004)

Good to hear ... I'm not surprised, I figure a G4 at 350 mhz and 16mb graphics would be roughly equivalent to my iBook G3 at 500 mhz with 8mb graphics, and that runs Mac OSX beautifully. Chuck in another stick of RAM and you'll be amazed at the step-up in performance. As a rule of thumb, a G3 Mac is about 30% faster than the same speed PC, and a G4 is about 30% faster again. So your G4-350 would be (at a guess) equivalent to a 700mhz PC.

There are only a few tasks that would truly run slower because of the lower processor speed, such as ripping CDs to MP3, but this is no big deal.

You should be able to have a lot of fun with your PowerMac ... I am very envious of you for scoring one for free.

You can find software from: http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/  as well as, of course, http://www.apple.com/


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## abyssknight (May 6, 2004)

I'm on it right now, and well, I must say: Amazing.


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## markceltic (May 6, 2004)

Good to have you on board abyssknight!


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## Arden (May 7, 2004)

3rd Panther CD = Developer Tools, no?

Good to hear your G4 is loving the new OS.  Would that my iMac were as fast in Panther as your G4 sounds to be.


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## abyssknight (May 7, 2004)

I downloaded the whole Xcode cd straight from apple. Must say, its nifty.


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## dlloyd (May 8, 2004)

Bah, then you wasted about 600 mb of download time, cause that's what CD three is 

Compiling is another thing you'll probably notice is a bit slow because of the lower processor speed, but hopefully not too much


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## cigar (May 8, 2004)

The question is ofcourse _ crazy enough _ to have a Mac-user laughing.
_ What can i do?_.. well i always knew that if i had something i didn't know what to do with i give it away! 
So maybe you can make a 'poor' Macuser happy with this Mac and get in return a PIII 500 MHZ or so PC as a trade.


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## dlloyd (May 8, 2004)

cigar, I think he's figured out what to do now, don't you?


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## abyssknight (May 9, 2004)

lol.

no way. i'm keeping this thing. 

all i need now is a new shiny monitor and a lan cable. 

the guy who sent the mac said he's going to send me some more ram too.

Oh, and here's a screenshot: http://www.abyssknight.com/himages/macscreen1.jpg


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## dlloyd (May 9, 2004)

Looks good!
Any VGA moniter should work, as will any Ethernet cable.


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## markceltic (May 9, 2004)

abyssknight said:
			
		

> lol.
> 
> no way. i'm keeping this thing.
> 
> [/url]


 Doesn't it make you feel all warm & fuzzy that there is another mac user out there is so happy now to be with "us".


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## abyssknight (May 9, 2004)

*hehe*  I'm going to go thrift store hopping for a cheap monitor to tide me over til I can buy an LCD. 

I'll keep an eye our for cheap lan cables too...


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