# Mac vs. SUN Java... whats the diff??



## closer (Apr 15, 2005)

Our board (99% PC) has put together a portal based web site that worked when we had OS9 client machines... since upgrading to eMacs and OSX 3.x we have been unable to see any of the "portal" info... the board programmer is telling us that it is because Mac Java is different from the industry standard SUN Java they use on their PC's... am I being fed a line or are we stuck with having no access to this site... we really need it too...

other info... home page has a 1" header that we can click on, with obvious action but nothing appears below in the portal area... in Explorer teh same applies except I can see at the bottom of the Portal Area about 1/16" of the info that should be in the Portal

have included a source from safari (except the brd identifiers) in h opes that someone can let me know if this is really a macJava or SUNJava problem and if there is a quick fix... sorry I don't have access to any further code... its the best I can do here!

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>HHH District School Board</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="CONTENT-TYPE" CONTENT="TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1">
<LINK REL="shortcut icon" HREF="/servlet/media/templates/24/images/HHHdsb.ico">
</HEAD>

<FRAMESET ROWS="98,*0" COLS="*" FRAMEBORDER="NO" FRAMESPACING="0" BORDER="0"> 
	<FRAME SRC="/servlet/portal/serve?FILE=FRAMESET&FRAME=top.html" NAME="TOP" MARGINWIDTH="10" MARGINHEIGHT="10" NORESIZE SCROLLING="NO" FRAMEBORDER="NO"> 
  	<FRAME SRC="/servlet/portal/workplace/" NAME="main" FRAMEBORDER="NO" SCROLLING="AUTO" MARGINWIDTH="10" MARGINHEIGHT="0">
</FRAMESET>

<NOFRAMES><BODY>
This application requires a frames-enabled browser.
</BODY></NOFRAMES>
</HTML>


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## wiz (Apr 15, 2005)

depends.. if its the new J2SE 5.0 they are right.. else. no.

edit: but you say OS 9? well i doubt OS 9 has even 1.4...


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## Chimp (Apr 15, 2005)

I think what wiz is saying is if they built your portal using Java version 1.5 (J2SE 5.0) then it wont work with the current version of OSX.  If this is the case you can join the very long list of unhappy people who have wanted the new version of Java.

Apples Java FAQ at
http://developer.apple.com/java/faq
says they do have a version of J2SE 5.0 available for Tiger (on sale the end of this month).

If your portal worked with OS9 then I don't think this is the case at all. OS9 only supports Java up to versions 1.1.8.

As to whether you are being fed a line or not, I couldn't help you.  I think you are encountering the problem that your Mac installation doesn't constitute enough of the network to be 'financially viable' fixing the portal for, though I am sure they could fix the portal to work if they had the incentive.  Otherwise what would be the point in coding the portal in a language like Java which is supposed to be able to run on any platform (oh... yes the security thing).


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## Viro (Apr 16, 2005)

This has nearly nothing to do with Java on the client, since you're using servlets, which is strictly a server side technology. Servlets are completely independent of Java on the client. If it isn't displaying correctly on OS X.3, it is most likely Safari that is at fault. Try using Firefox, or Camino. See if the problem still exists. Check out other browsers too, even... *gasp* IE for Mac to see if the problem persists.

The only thing that could cause trouble on the client is if you were using Applets, but these are quite troublesome to get right, thus most people don't bother with them anymore.


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## closer (Apr 18, 2005)

Appreciate the replies... and the intro to some other browsers... really hadn't tried a new one out since iCab... but have now tried out FireFox, Camino and OmniWeb... and no luck... only now I can't even get to my the pre portal page... its an WAN site and I'm running these other browsers from the same machine as Safari (thats the one that gets to the site, it's login popup then the portal template, but won't display the info within the portals)... shouldn't these other browsers automatically pick up my Internet Settings?... what can I look for here to make the new browsers use the same settings...

actually FireFox appeared at one time to at least try to open up the popup window but seemed to hang there... I have allowed popups in the settings as well on this one

Regarding the question about why this might have worked in OS9... I really can't tell yet as I don't have any 9 macs left on the network and our transition to OSX was at about the same time as when the board reworked their portal!... and they won't let me know what version of Java they have used... top secret I guess!!!


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## mdnky (Apr 19, 2005)

|| Moved from WebDev to WebScripting/Programming ||


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## Viro (Apr 19, 2005)

This is quite a strange problem. Have you tried the new portal with OS 9?


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## Damrod (Apr 19, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> This is quite a strange problem. Have you tried the new portal with OS 9?



That should be the first thing to do IMO


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## closer (Apr 20, 2005)

haven't tried OS9 yet... am trying to figure out which machine I want to reformat to go retro with... will let you know... suppose I could try it in classic, but I think it would still call on the newer java wouldn't it?... hang on... can't try that, cuz (ugh) explorer just opens in OSX... oh well... looks like a reformat is the order of the day...


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## Mikuro (Apr 20, 2005)

If Explorer is a 9/X combo package (not sure if it is, because I've never used it), you should be able to Get Info on it and check a box that says "Open in the Classic Environment".

I'm pretty sure it would use OS 9's Java implementation. The integration between OS X and Classic isn't tight enough to replace OS 9 services with their X counterparts (nor should it be, since the whole point is backwards compatibility). I know that QuickTime in Classic uses OS 9's QuickTime.

You could also download the OS 9 version of iCab, which, in my experience, is the best browser to use with Java under OS 9.


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## jafo (Apr 28, 2005)

closer said:
			
		

> Our board (99% PC) has put together a portal based web site that worked when we had OS9 client machines... since upgrading to eMacs and OSX 3.x we have been unable to see any of the "portal" info... the board programmer is telling us that it is because Mac Java is different from the industry standard SUN Java they use on their PC's... am I being fed a line or are we stuck with having no access to this site... we really need it too...
> 
> other info... home page has a 1" header that we can click on, with obvious action but nothing appears below in the portal area... in Explorer teh same applies except I can see at the bottom of the Portal Area about 1/16" of the info that should be in the Portal
> 
> ...



I'm a bit late to this but if you haven't found it out yet, it has nothing to do with Java as said earlier. The base problem is poor programming standards used by the developers. This usually happens when only developing on PC for IE users. That browser is so forgiving that it promotes poor programming standards. 

Anywayz, the main problem is that the HTML code given above is not written to comply with any standard. Save the snippet to a local file and check it against any verification service: http://validator.w3.org/. The first problem is that the above snippet does not specify to which standard it is written. Correcting that would give you a more narrow list of errors.

Most other browsers available (has nothing to do with mac) are very picky about standards and are not as forgiving as IE. Thus you may run into alot of trouble on any site.

I think the main problem is this line:

```
<FRAME SRC="/servlet/portal/serve?FILE=FRAMESET&FRAME=top.html
```

There are two 
	
	



```
=
```
 signs in the url, which is invalid in any browser. IE automagically transforms bad urls, which is the reason for it working there.

So basically, have a good web programmer write down a smallish review of the portal html code standard adherence, so they can't outsmart you with techno lingo. Also, there should be a document specifying what browsers and standards the portal is supposed to work best with. You may get that one thrown back, but then you can push for atleast good html code standard...

/jaf


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## chornbe (Apr 28, 2005)

Good catch. I didn't pay much attention to the HTML.

*nods* As noted, try declaring the HTML as XHTML transitional or as HTML 4.0 strict and run it against the verifier. Don't get discouraged by a long list of errors. Often times the errors are compounded to look worse than they really are. The rules are pretty simple. Always terminate every tag. Always form every url completely. Always follow proper nesting rules, and by all means, make CSS and proper css inclusions your best friends. You'll be amazed at how small and compact your HTML can end up when you use CSS to its full potential.

I'm no professional "HTML Designer" by any means, but I've spent a good deal of time of late building a variety of sites and "fixing" up sites after others have worked on them. Get to know the validator and use it EVERY edit session. It will save you so much time and angst down the road you'll wonder how you ever used HTML without it.


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