# AppleBASIC...



## new32 (Apr 12, 2003)

[ Originally posted on Apple's Developer Discussion, reposted here as I wish to read more opinions on this ]

First and foremost, BASIC distributions are always in the demand as the language itself has an easy to use syntax that just about everybody can grasp as well as generally being easy to use [though that's rather dependent upon the distribution].  OO Basics are in even more demand as these tend to be RAD based, brimming with enough library support to make quite a number of applications, as well as being "fun" to use [though that's debatable in some cases].  Now to the point.

The other side has a good idea going with their "Visual" distribution:  It's got simplicity, object-orientation, RAD-based, inter-mixable with their other development tools, and tied into the core of the OS [another debatable point but that's better left to their forums =].

So why can't we have ours?  We've got the core suite of development tools and what would be the problem with adding an OO BASIC based on Cocoa to the mix?  The language C [and family] is definitely a good place to go if one is looking to target multiple platforms and/or learn a highly portable language.  It is my understanding however, that most developer's aren't looking for this.  They are looking for a resolution to a given problem or just looking to make something for themselves.  BASIC is notorious for allowing just about anyone with a few hours to start developing 'real-world' applications.  C is quite notorious for requiring a few years to get a firm grasp on:  Most people don't have that kind of time or dedication.  With a new AppleBASIC, it'd be a great learning tool for Cocoa and other frameworks and help bring more people into the Mac development world; Programmers from the other side, novices looking for a start, as well as us 'seasoned' folks just looking for a break.  Not to mention a fine starting point towards learning the other languages of PB/IB if one was to choose so as their would be no need to switch development environments and they'd already have a good handle on the technologies within.

I know there are several OO BASICs on the market for the PPC/Mac, REALBasic and FutureBASIC being at the top of those lists, with each having their oddities, costs, and user groups.  I personally use at least one of these tools but find it's short-comings [yet another debatable point] a little too much and feel that the perfect people for making this 'user-friendly' language should be the very people who know the system best:  Apple!

Just my two cents.

Regards,
~new32


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## wiz (Apr 15, 2003)

hey!!!

Objective-C is soo easy! And so is Java!

Why have BASIC? I find it extremely difficult to debug BASIC coded programs. I don't think it's a good idea at all. Unless Apple wishes to be another M$ and welcome buggy apps to the Mac OS X platform.

Of course if you really need to super RAD develop an application! There is REALbasic.

But I don't think Apple it self should support BASIC.::alien:: Well that my opinion.


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## symphonix (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't want to see a free-and-easy basic for mac, as I believe the language encourages sloppy programming practices.

We have a great learning language in the form of Java, a language which encourages the developer to think first and program later.

Of all the RealBasic applications I've seen, the majority of them are extremely poor in design. The problem with making tools an idiot could use is that idiots will use them. ;-)

I shudder to think of the flood of crummy little shareware apps that we would see if there were a freeware OO-Basic for OSX.


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## phatcactus (Apr 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by symphonix _
> *The problem with making tools an idiot could use is that idiots will use them. ;-)*


You are a GENIUS.

Of course, I'm an idiot; I can't for the life of me figure out AppleScript Studio, and I'd really like to put a UI on my LAME-encoder Perl scripts.  Sad times.


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## wiz (Apr 19, 2003)

if u know BASIC. AppleScript is easy.

Why don't u look at the free sample code at the ADC, if they have it!


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## phatcactus (Apr 19, 2003)

Will do, when I find the time.  But I might just wait until Konfabulator 1.1 comes out, since it will supposedly support text input boxes.  That's really all I need now.


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## new32 (Apr 22, 2003)

I do have to agree that Java is definitely one of the best programming languages around.  However, half the time it's a pain to do certain tasks [ tis why I gave up C++ for a while ] with java.  I have nothing against Obj-C and have toyed with it for some time but find it just as bad as java can be [again in some areas].  Applescript is fine, provided I don't want to build anything too complex and I admit to it's fair share of abuse on my system [ hey, it's easier than perl and if you couldn't tell, I'm rather lazy ]. 

I personally, as well as others, just find OO-BASIC a more practical solution to application development as it's easy to use and tends to be easy to implement [ that generalization is taken from what I do know of compiler design and my own {somewhat futile} attempts to build a BASIC].  As for the ones currently in production from others, I've nothing against them and actually use one.  It's slow and buggy but it gets some of the jobs I've put to it done.  However, the expense is rather unjustified given that I tend to have to write applescripts for it to use anyway.

The otherside has there own and just wish we had ours.   I'll take on the barrage of cheapy apps if it means this idiot's designs are faster and easier to build.  

I guess if all else, I'll just have to wait till Kylix get's ported to the mac and revamp some pascal skills.

Regardless, here's hoping to see AppleBasic!
~new32


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## jove (May 4, 2003)

symphonix - 

So true. But the idiots are going to program anyways.  I'd just assume they use a high level language.


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