# Apple doesnt want your ideas



## wtconway (Jul 17, 2002)

I was just reading on Apple's website about their policy on new ideas.

Apparatently, they dont want any. Look here:
http://www.apple.com/legal/default.html.

It states:


> Apple or any of its employees do not accept or consider unsolicited ideas, including ideas for new advertising campaigns, new promotions, new or improved products or technologies,product enhancements, processes, materials, marketing plans or new product names.



No sense to me. They take a UNIX stand, and then hurt the UNIX community.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

Except they solicit users for feedback. There are forms all over their website. Basically they are saying they will ignore stuff if you don't send it thru the proper channels.

Brian


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## fbp_ (Jul 17, 2002)

its just to keep them from being sued every time they do anything


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## wtconway (Jul 17, 2002)

Yea, but it hurts the whole UNIX standpoint. I have been in the UNIX community for a long time. One of the reasons I moved to OS X is because it is UNIX based. You have to understand that in the UNIX community, we share everything, and everybody gets credit.  If Apple is going to be as such, they need to leave the community. They are being real jerks right now in the new standpoint to be like the big dogs. Apple right now is trying to get theirselves back up to the top as being a real threat to Microsoft, and it isn't going to happen if they cant put the Apple in everyones home. The reason I haved used UNIX for the time I have is because I can go get whatever I want, from mostly any vendor and build my own UNIX machine and still have the stability I need. Apple has the stability, but not the broadness support they need from the community.

I refuse to write software for the Mac platform if they do not start strightening up. It hurts to UNIX community to see such a big name throwing the name UNIX down the gutter with the cost they are putting on it.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

Ummm, I fail to see what your specific problem is with what Apples doing with Darwin. The darwin code is open source. The ask for, and listen to feedback from users and developers continually. You are taking their pretty legal statement with way too much gusto. Apple is giving back to the unix community, just take a look at the darwin ports for x86 to see that. Hell, the president of the FreeBSD group left to go work for Apple as a manager in the OS X group. Just because you can't email any random person at apple and expect the right person to get it is an insane reason to be pissed. 

Think of it as being some nobody Linux user, emailing linus directly asking for a specific feature to be added, and expecting him to read and pay attention to it. Then, we you don't get anything back, getting really pissed that you're ignored. Follow the proper channels, I don't care if it's free software, commerical, whatever, if you don't follow the proper channels you're SOL. Time to find something better to complain about.

And I understand the UNIX community very well, I've been a diehard unix user for 10 years. And saying everyone in the *nix community always gets credit means you're blind as a bat. Remeber, the original UNIX is not Open Source, BSD is basically OSS, but Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, IRIX, etc. are not OSS, and are no better or worse then OS X on what they use and give back.

Brian


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

Oh, and take a look at http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

Read it all. This is the core of OS X, which is, guess what, OSS.


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## Hobeaux (Jul 17, 2002)

Apple has a long-standing policy of rejecting product ideas, demos, and whatever else -- unopened/unviewed/unplayed/unread because they might be developing a product similar to what was suggested and if they annouce it, the person who had submitted a similar idea could claim that it was his and then sue apple.

i imagine that something like that happened in the past.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

But that has what do do with the OSS core which is the UNIX portion of OS X? I can understand with apps, but the Quartz/Aqua portion is completely seperate then the OSS side. Apple listens to input on Darwin, as that is the whole basis for the system. The upper layers are were they are proprietary, and have never claimed that they aren't. Personally, I dont' have a problem with it. 

Brian


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## LordOphidian (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by wtconway _
> *The reason I haved used UNIX for the time I have is because I can go get whatever I want, from mostly any vendor and build my own UNIX machine and still have the stability I need. Apple has the stability, but not the broadness support they need from the community.
> *



You probably mean Linux, because I damnwell know that I can't install Solaris on my HP box.  You seem to be really confused as to what UNIX is.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

He can't mean linux. Half the software out there for linux won't compile on a different flavor then it was written on. They all love to use different process and device setups that really mess with programs that do device interaction. 

Brian


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## ScottW (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by wtconway _
> *No sense to me. They take a UNIX stand, and then hurt the UNIX community. *



That is Apple Legal's way of saying...

If you send us an idea and we use it, we don't owe you anything because we don't accept random ideas from people, only once we solicite.

They will take them, they just won't let you sue them if they use it.

Admin


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## wtconway (Jul 17, 2002)

No, I am just saying that Apple is being jerks right now. With the .mac and proprietary software it's just mean. They are selling Open Source, that sounds really funny. I havent given any ideas for Apple, I would write my own software. The head of FreeBSD went to Apple for the money, duh, anybody would.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

Ummm, businesses make money. It's what they do. So, you're pissed that Apple is selling stuff and trying to make money so they can stay in business and keep making new products. Its what any business does. Just because a bunch of companies tried to make money giving stuff away (never made sense to me) and went bankrupt and you got used to being given stuff for free doesn't make a company thats been selling hardware/software for 25 years jerks.

Open up your wallet and support the people who make software that you use. If you don't want to, go use crappy software, without support, that only works right for the person who wrote it.

Oh yeah, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, RedHat, Caldera, Debian, etc. _ALL_ make money selling their software, even tho you can get it for free. Some of them just add on extra software that isn't free. Gee, isn't that what Apple is doing?

Jerks are people who expect everything for free, and whine when they don't get it. They are never happy and never want to spend a dime because they are cheap bastards. 

Hey, why don't you complain now that Apple is making you pay for an iPod.

Brian


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## xaqintosh (Jul 17, 2002)

it's not that apple is making us pay (at least not for me) it's that they PROMISED that we'd get free mac.com email indefinitely. and now they've gone back on their word.


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

"Read my lips, no new taxes"

Sound familiar?  Things change in the world that can't be predicted. Thats life.

Brian


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## efoivx (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *it's not that apple is making us pay (at least not for me) it's that they PROMISED that we'd get free mac.com email indefinitely. and now they've gone back on their word. *




This sums it up for me, I want my mac.com email as prommised no fees attached!


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## btoneill (Jul 17, 2002)

This is from the old iTools membership terms:

----------------------------------
Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of iTools at any time, including the availability of any iTools feature or content. Apple may also impose limits on the use of or access to certain features or portions of iTools, including a charge for or imposition of a subscription or other fee for use of iTools or any part or feature of iTools, or restrict your access to any part or all of iTools, in all cases without notice or liability.
------------------------------------

Doesn't look like apple promised anything, and you agreed to their promise of nothing.

Brian


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## wtconway (Jul 17, 2002)

Well here is a promise from me. I aint gonna support them!


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## gibbs (Jul 17, 2002)

Apple is charging for itools now for 2 reasons in my eyes.

a) they believe that a substantial portion of their userbase is willing to pay
b) they do not want to turn itools into another "hotmail" ...which is notorious for losing money and having horrendous operating costs/requirements.

Not that ill be paying for itools. I already have superior free email. [hehe]


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## wtconway (Jul 18, 2002)

I get free email anyways, through my site thinkgames and through my ISP (not to mention the site's ISP).


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## Annihilatus (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xaqintosh _
> *it's not that apple is making us pay (at least not for me) it's that they PROMISED that we'd get free mac.com email indefinitely. and now they've gone back on their word. *



You might want to look up the definition of indefinitely before you say they're going back on their word.

If they DID indeed promise that they would keep it free indefinitely, then they can change the free service to a paid one whenever they feel like it.

Definition:
in·def·i·nite   Pronunciation Key  (n-df-nt)
adj. 
Not definite, especially:
Unclear; vague. 
Lacking precise limits: an indefinite leave of absence. 
Uncertain; undecided: indefinite about their plans.


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## xaqintosh (Jul 18, 2002)

how about "forever"


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## Gregita (Jul 21, 2002)

If you don't want to support Apple, you don't have to. We won't force you. 

You also don't have to design for them or submit ideas to them. That is also your choice.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Apple was the only company that had ever spelled UNIX in all capital letters.

I thought that, outside of that, it had always been Unix.

Seems to me, like someone who spent years in that community would know the difference.

Then again, we have people posting thread after thread about free email.

Last I checked, Apple is not the only email provider in the world.

I go back and forth with the whole .mac thing personally. Sometimes, I think it is okay. Sometimes, I think I am going to let my email address there lapse as of September 30th.

However, I still don't know what that has to do with Unix. The logical connection between the two is beyond me.


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## Trip (Jul 21, 2002)

I think i see the concern of this thread. It's not completely the fact that Apple is acting really strange (like their professional or something  ) it's the fact that the customers (can I call them fans?) are concerned for Apple.

I for one don't want to go buy a Windows machine just because Apple starts charging a $500 shipping fee. But with the prices and the market issues these days we all know something has to go soon or later, for Apple it was recently iTools (a.k.a. .Mac).

See what I'm saying? I probably just confused you guys even more.


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