# New Newton? *yes please*



## H2OSX (Mar 13, 2005)

I found this little article a a couple days ago

HERE 

As far as I know Apple's Newton staff was never fired, and this would be the perfect time for them to make a new newton.  The iPod craze will get ppl to buy the im guessin around $300-400 newton b/c it will replace whatever is the high end iPod.  I personally would love a new newton running a chopped version of OSX.  I would like it to look something like the attached pic.  Im wonderin what you guys would want it to be able to do/ cool features etc.   Ill start us off:

Bluetooth
80211. whatever letters are out
A 40-60 gig HD
Able to run iTunes, iPhoto, Quicktime, and some other pgrams at regular speeds
Built in TV tuner
Light up keyboard (like in the powerbooks)
A min of 13 hour batt life
Good use of Inkwell
GPS
Firewire connections
An awesome screen
Good microphone
Built in scanner?
Speakers
And It has to look sweet (not that we have to worry, i mean this is apple were talkin about)


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## Convert (Mar 13, 2005)

Lol that would be better than my Powerbook...

EDIT: But no function keys! No Expose!!


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## padishahemperor (Mar 13, 2005)

I think iPod Video will be more likely rather than a Newton.


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## Convert (Mar 13, 2005)

padishahemperor said:
			
		

> I think iPod Video will be more likely rather than a Newton.



Yeah, and we all know Steve's view on the video player...

I'd love a newton but not if it was called 'iNewt'... that's just creepy. I'd rename it to Burty or something.


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## chevy (Mar 13, 2005)

I a new Newton (or similar) comes, it will include the newest input system, no keyboard or pen.


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## padishahemperor (Mar 13, 2005)

chevy said:
			
		

> I a new Newton (or similar) comes, it will include the newest input system, no keyboard or pen.


I wouldn't bother with something without a keyboard, it's a necessity for me. I'd like to see either a iPod with TV recording and video playback like the Archos or a system like the OQO or Zaurus C3000 with Mac OSX.


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## kainjow (Mar 13, 2005)

I doubt it. Apple has repeatedly said no PDA, Steve Jobs hates the Newton (although he disliked flash MP3 players...). I remember very recently in an article Phil Schiller saying something about no PDA.

I could see maybe a smaller, lighter, less featured laptop, but I doubt it. Apple delivers products that people want.

If they do anything like this, you think it'll be cheap? Look at the iPod, yea it's a success, but it's limited on what it can do.  Add in a touch screen and/or keyboard, wireless, and you've got another $100. I would bet if they released anything it'd be $400 minimum. For a PDA, that's expensive. For a sub-notebook, that's too weak unless they use some crazy new version of the G3 made by IBM. But I just don't see it happening.


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## padishahemperor (Mar 13, 2005)

I'll bet three Rice Krispies and a banana that they will will bring a more featured video capable device under the iPod brand that will sync with iTunes.


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## MisterMe (Mar 13, 2005)

H2OSX said:
			
		

> I found this little article a a couple days ago
> 
> HERE
> 
> ...


Oh, please. Not another beknighted soul who longs for the dearly departed Newton. Look, Apple may have any number of reasons for examining the eMate. Only the least likely would be a revival of the Newton. Two years ago--or was it three--Steve told you that the PDA was being folded into the cell phone. Not only has his prediction proven true, it has proven more correct than Steve let on. The cell phone is threatening the standalone digital camera. We are even awaiting the release of the iPod-compatible cell phone from Motorola. Not only do we have the traditional cell phone form-factor with a lot more functionality, we also have cell phones as gaming platforms. If you want to type on a keyboard, you have the Blackberry. How does the Newton compete with all these.

It is entirely possible that Apple is developing a super thin PowerBook or iBook. Our favorite fruit company may even be developing a new line of portable computers without internal optical drives. However, a revival of the Newton is about as likely as a revival of the Apple ///.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Mar 13, 2005)

I agree.

Like the Pippin.  I'm sure we'd all love an Apple-branded video game system, but it just ain't gonna happen... there's no market for it.


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## fryke (Mar 13, 2005)

I wouldn't love an Apple-branded video game system. I'd think it'd flop. But a "iBook mini" or something like that: I'd simply love it.


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## Ceroc Addict (Mar 13, 2005)

Love the attached pic. If it were even half as pretty as that, I'd buy it in a second. 

Kap



			
				H2OSX said:
			
		

> I found this little article a a couple days ago
> 
> HERE
> 
> ...


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## gerbick (Mar 13, 2005)

They build that, I'm all about it.  But c'mon... Apple building what I want hasn't happened too often in recent years.

G4 iBook, iPod, G4 Cube (yes, I have three in total), iSight... Mac Mini.  That's it.  

I finally got a headless Mac, can't upgrade the CPU like my G4 Cube.  But that?  I doubt a Newton is high on their list because simply put, the MS Pocket PC hasn't been really pulling in the money for HP.  Hell, Sony discontinued their Palm OS based stuff in the US.  There's no Zaurus in the US.  

I seriously doubt that Apple will enter the PDA market.  It's just not lucrative.


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## texanpenguin (Mar 13, 2005)

At a time when PDA manufacturers are soiling themselves with fear over SymbianOS phones, I doubt we'll get an iNewt (although there's a Newton MP-somethingorother MacMod on MacMod.com called the iNewt - worth a looksee).

I just don't see it being viable for enough people.

But that's a nicer sized keyboard than I've EVER seen on a PDA.


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## fryke (Mar 14, 2005)

The problem in the PDA industry isn't only the smartphones (but they're a big one...). Problem is that people really work differently. It's about mobility, right? There already are two starting points: Either you're using a notebook or a desktop computer. If you're using a notebook, you already _have_ your information with you, and the PDA has to be "less capable" than if you're a desktop computer user, where your PDA should give you ALL and EVERYTHING when you're on the way.

A "PowerBook Mini" (or whatever it'd be called) would probably be a companion Mac for the desktop people rather than a PDA for the notebook people (where often a smartphone is already enough).


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## Quicksilver (Mar 14, 2005)

The Newton 2000 & 2100 models accually came optionally with a nice sized seperate keyboard. The flip pannel that covers the screen was accually used as the stand to turn the Newton into a monitor.

The newton 2000 & 2100 was perfect for those who wanted to use the features of a PDA but could also quickly turn into a Desktop/laptop styled system for typing large documents, etc.

The dock is present in this version of Newton OS just like in OS X but just a cut down version.

Newton - Desktop style -->



..


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## JohnnyV (Mar 14, 2005)

You wanna know what will happen? Apple will continue to develop the iPod...adding video...then a scheduler....then a camera....and just keep adding features and changing what it looks like until it is essentially a PDA


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## Quicksilver (Mar 16, 2005)

JohnnyV said:
			
		

> You wanna know what will happen? Apple will continue to develop the iPod...adding video...then a scheduler....then a camera....and just keep adding features and changing what it looks like until it is essentially a PDA



That could be a great idea. But i think an iPod is an iPod a Newton is the answer to the questions between a laptop and a PDA i just wish so bad that it was updated or seriously reconsidered as an Apple product, even though the 2100 still out performs all or most of the latest PDA's today.

I still use mine everyday, chicks love it!.... the baby laptop


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## Gig' (Jan 25, 2006)

Looks like someone managed to use the old Newt with recent finnish hardware  http://homepage.mac.com/dillera/PhotoAlbum6.html


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## fryke (Jan 25, 2006)

For what it's worth: Einstein (the software emulating the Newton hard-/software) is incredibly slow, currently.


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## vincentroyerk7 (Jan 26, 2006)

Hi guys, it's not possible ^_^










vincentroyerk7@yahoo.fr


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## fryke (Jan 26, 2006)

whatcha mean?


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## Quicksilver (Jan 27, 2006)

Just to let you know about the handheld portable possibilities there was this artice, with a recently new accelorometer patent made. It's a good read too.

On Jan. 26, 2006, the US Patent & Trademark Office revealed a patent titled &#8220;Methods and apparatuses for operating a portable device based on an accelerometer.&#8221; Although no assignee was presented in the patent application&#8217;s template, a clear reference found under &#8220;description&#8221; does in fact provide patent number 6768066, which is an Apple patent published in 2004.

More here -->
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/buzz_apples_new_accelerometer_patent_reveals_a_stunning_tablet_pc/



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## fryke (Jan 27, 2006)

Yeah, but then again we've seen patents with pictures or descriptions of a tablet based computer by Apple for years now. Maybe Apple _did_ develop one at a certain point in time, applied for some patents and scrapped the project nonetheless, because they thought it would flop. Can't really blame them. Also: A Tablet PC is no replacement for a good Newton.


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## Quicksilver (Jan 29, 2006)

Exactly, i like the tilting display perspective on the drawings. How would the device know what up/down/left/right is??? so if you tilted the display, the image is still perspectilvley right even at 45deg, etc.

If this was a feature on a Newton it would be cool & somewhat original too.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jan 29, 2006)

gyroscopes.


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## texanpenguin (Jan 29, 2006)

It's a little off-topic, but using the accelerometer in this way has already been done with the PowerBook's Sudden Motion Sensor:

http://www.kernelthread.com/software/ams2hid/ams2hid.html
http://www.kernelthread.com/software/ams/ams.html
http://pallit.lhi.is/palli/dashlevel/


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## Quicksilver (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't think you see what i mean. Or mabey im looking at it the wrong way or explaining it badly, but honestly, i can't see how it's off topic as of yet... A Newton would benefit from this technology.

I ment when you rotate the display/screen either a Tablet or Newton (not a laptop) the image of the displaying pixels are always up-right or corrected to your own perspective in real-time. you can't look at the data on the screen up-side-down. eg: figure 10B. I haven't seen this used in such a way anywhere yet. Only Newton's, pda's Tablets could use this. Though to be honest, i haven't really taken the time to completley review a tablet either.

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## fryke (Jan 30, 2006)

I think he meant his links were a bit off-topic, not your post.


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## Quicksilver (Jan 31, 2006)

Oh, thanks. Sorry about that. LOL


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## Quicksilver (Feb 2, 2006)

And if we check these new patents, they show a form factor that is quite sleek and as far is im concerned "ergonomicly perfect". This somewhat fits tightly between a PDA, which i believe is way to small, and a Tablet which is just awkward and bulky to use.

See Here --> http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/48/new-apple-patents/

With this sized form factor you could still comfortably use a word processor as well possibly other Apple iLife applications. it most probably would allow a full (standard) version of MAC OS X installed too (Not a striped down version others have spoken of).

The original physical dimentions/size of the Newton 2100 was absolutley sweet. I only hope that Apple in the near future releases the ultimate "Apple Digital Companion" we have all been wishing for.


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## MACchine (Feb 2, 2006)

W???W, I think I just figured out what accelerator meter patent will be used for in the new tablet.

Years ago on Spymac I described a tablet I called the iAction, it drew a LOT of attention, mostly negative -- but that's the way SM is !!!

But it really makes sense as a product mainly for taking video in all types of situations.

The lid opened by pushing in spots on each side and it had hot spots for thumbs, keyboard on the back, and finger dials in the hinge to control which way the camera in the hinge pointed.

I had not thought of this before but Apple would have figured it out just while testing or even just from looking at my idea.

If they used the accelerator tech for motion canceling on the camera to make it act like a Steady Cam in such a device it would be the most amazing camera on the planet and it would out sell everything.

Especially since there is now a new type of camera chips, the NeXT Generation, that are supposed to last indefinitely, current camera chip wear out fast, and otherwise be high-end and cheap.

Oh, yah, it was water proof !!!


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## fryke (Feb 3, 2006)

Hm. Looking at the patents, I don't think that'd be the main goal at all.


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## MACchine (Feb 3, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Hm. Looking at the patents, I don't think that'd be the main goal at all.



They would try to obscure the patents real purpose wouldn't they. I notice the supposed gestures patent pictures just shows the typical flat all screen, post Titanium team's rendition of a tablet, so you can figure Apple is NOT doing THAT !!!

But then they would also be more likely to do a simple and full featured communications phone, chat, smart communicator MACchine.

Not a movie camera computer that can chat and blog.

But HOLLY COW if they built a, movie camera computer that can chat and blog, with good quality STEADY CAM functionality -- WELL, THAT WOULD BE JUST AMAZING !!!

And it would probably sell like crazy.

And considering that TV is going on the REALWORLD/reality/homebrew kind of craze just because its is cheap and safe to produce that way, you could think of it as a way to revolutionize the TV side of Disney !!!

But Apple never goes that far that fast, do they ???  They are very conservative AFTER ALL aren't they !!!

The only thing that makes me think they might move that far that fast are all the rumors of tablets at Apple goes back WAY before any commercial laptops were actually sold, and they went to a lot of trouble to make sure Inkwell is quite well tested.

They have had lots of time to move beyond the standard stuff.


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## dmetzcher (Feb 4, 2006)

Given the recent fall of the Palm OS to the Windows Mobile platform, I would love it if someone else got into the game. I used to use my Palm all the time, but it works like crap with my iBook, so I've sort of ditched it. If Apple released a handheld, I'd pick it up on day one, and I usually don't do that sort of thing. Smartphones don't do it for me. I don't like the idea of carrying around a huge phone, and the smaller ones aren't big enough PDAs for me to find them useful. I like two separate devices, and I think Apple could really build something beautiful. Whatever - I just want an alternative to Microsoft - a real alternative, now that Palm is going south.


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## Ifrit (Feb 6, 2006)

Palm isn't going south nor it is ditching Palm OS in favour of Win Mobile. 
The deal is following: A phone company/provider ordered the Treos from Palm. The only requirement was that the Treos should run the Windows mobile OS. This means that Palm had guaranteed sale of thousends of units. 
The Treo700w will be available from the phone provider only - for a long time.

I am sure Palm doesn't want to eliminate the Palm OS userbase. That would be just plain stupid. As long as Palm OS devices are produced I could care less if Palm is also selling "Palm" devices with Winmobile onboard.

It is planed to introduce a new Palm OS in the near future which is based on Linux. So development hasn't come to a halt.

BTW, if you want to sync your palm with OSX and get optimal results - buy "The Missing Sync 5" for OSX. But the Palm Desktop still works with Tiger, OSX 10.4 without problems (if you own a Palm OS5 device).


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## dmetzcher (Feb 6, 2006)

Ifrit said:
			
		

> Palm isn't going south nor it is ditching Palm OS in favour of Win Mobile.
> The deal is following: A phone company/provider ordered the Treos from Palm. The only requirement was that the Treos should run the Windows mobile OS. This means that Palm had guaranteed sale of thousends of units.
> The Treo700w will be available from the phone provider only - for a long time.
> 
> ...


Palm, Inc. does not own the Palm OS. It licenses it from PalmSource. It used to be that PalmSource was a part of Palm, until they spun it off and created two companies: PalmOne (handheld hardware) and PalmSource (the Palm OS, and nothing else). PalmOne then licensed the Palm OS from PalmSource.

Fast forward to recently (November '05), when PalmOne just became Palm, Inc. again, and PalmSource was sold to a company called ACCESS Co. Ltd., based in Tokyo, Japan.
(Press release: http://www.palmsource.com/press/2005/111405_access.html)


Symbol Technologies Inc. has stated that it will continue to support existing users of its devices with the Palm OS, but they are concentrating most of their enterprise-level handheld efforts on the Windows Mobile platform.

In addition, PalmSource has not released an update (unless they have since mid-December) to their OS for over a year now. They are claiming that the next version, based on Linux, will be released some time this year.

Sony is no longer making devices that run Palm OS, and, with Palm now cozying up to Microsoft, the Palm OS has a dark future. ACCESS, the new owner of PalmSource, has not released a roadmap for the future of the OS, so who knows where it will go?

When I spoke of the fall of the Palm OS to Windows Mobile, I wasn't just talking about Palm running Microsoft's operating system on their devices. I was talking about fact that the Palm OS used to control most of the handheld market, and now, in a few short, recent years, it no longer controls that market, and has been beaten by MS.

There are a few things that I have to point out with regard to your statement about the reason that Palm went with Windows Mobile on their Treo. I'll put it this way - If Apple were to have a client come to it and say, "Hey, we want to buy thousands of your computers, but they have to all run Windows", do you think they'd entertain the idea? We're talking about a brand here. This does a lot more than simply dillute the Palm brand. It kills it. If they made a deal to sell a few thousand (I don't care if it's 200,000) handhelds, they either (1) needed the money really bad, or (2) are going to offer additional devices in the future running Windows Mobile, and slowly migrate away from the Palm OS. Either way, both are bad for the company's brand.

I think that the future is nothing less than uncertain for the Palm OS, and that's being kind. I hope you are right, and that I (and most analysts) are wrong, and that the Palm OS has years of life left in it, but I just fail to see how it could, given its sharp decline in users over the last few years.


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## Ifrit (Feb 10, 2006)

Hm, maybe I misinterpreted your last post. I just meant Palm isn't dead _now_. But after you brought out the facts I am not to sure about the lifespan of Palm devices anymore (see, arguing on the Internet isn't always like special olympics...   ) 

Even I don't use a "first party" Palm device - this is saying something. I use the Tapwave Zodiac (Metal case, 2 SD slots, ARM processor, integrated ATI graphic with around 8MB RAM, 128MB internal storage - If you can still find one, then buy it it is one of the best Palm devices)

Lets put it this way. I know Palm and Palmsource have their share of problems:

no "third party support" - Sony gone, Tapwave (and lots of other small handheld enterprises) gone belly up, LG doesn't care about its Palm OS license either (if it still owns it)

problems concerning the build quality of the latest Palm devices (noisy screens, defects, toned down features compared to 2 generations before)

PalmOS isn't beyond version 5, version 6 will never see the light outside the Palm Simulator, and well Linux based Palm is announced (who is developing it anyway)

Owner of the "PalmOS" brand is a company which has been bought by another company

PalmOS does looks outdated nowadays (but its the same case with Win mobile IMHO)
-----------------

Unfortunally there is no alternative to Palm OS (at least not for me) - to round up this post and return to the original topic...

Windows Mobile? - Bloated, slow, interface sucks
Symbian? - mostly mobile phone only, slow - I doesn't like the interface 
Linux? - Linux devices aren't available where I live, imports are expensive, PIM synchronisation isn't optimal

edit: If Apple would release a new Newton I would buy within a heart beat. Something I wouldn't like to see is some sort of rebuild or port of the OSX interface. A handheld shouldn't emulate a desktop OS (I am not speaking about the look - using graphical elements or a certain style is no problem for me).

A handheld should stand on its own and offer elements which make working with the device as efficient as possible. Exambles:

Navigation without stylus use (the Treos are pretty good in this category)
important functions always available (functions assigned to hard buttons etc)
no or reduced submenus - I don't want to go 6 levels deep just to start a application
good documentation for developers, maybe a free SDK and integration into XCode
no iPod shiny finish - I don't want fear scratches on a device I pull out more compared to the ipod - if Apple would release such a device and go for the "white look" then hopefully they use the material ibooks are made of.


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## fryke (Feb 10, 2006)

Well, I think the days of the PDA itself are numbered. Smartphones, video games (the PSP) and media players (the iPod) as well as simple mobile phones are all taking their place. For years now, PDAs have tried to adopt _those_ features, but it seems it works better the other way 'round.

If Apple were to come out with a PDA in the "classic" sense, it wouldn't go anywhere but where the Newton went. Down. They'd have to very _clearly_ do something else.

We still see the treo working alright in the market. We see Windows Mobile smartphones doing alright. We see Blackberry devices doing alright. We don't see much of those "daft old" PDAs doing alright, though.


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## dmetzcher (Feb 10, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Well, I think the days of the PDA itself are numbered. Smartphones, video games (the PSP) and media players (the iPod) as well as simple mobile phones are all taking their place. For years now, PDAs have tried to adopt _those_ features, but it seems it works better the other way 'round.
> 
> If Apple were to come out with a PDA in the "classic" sense, it wouldn't go anywhere but where the Newton went. Down. They'd have to very _clearly_ do something else.
> 
> We still see the treo working alright in the market. We see Windows Mobile smartphones doing alright. We see Blackberry devices doing alright. We don't see much of those "daft old" PDAs doing alright, though.


This...is...so...sad.
I hope you are wrong. I hate smart phones. You either get a PDA that is too small to use, or a phone that is so big you look like a fool using it in a bar or club. That's why I won't buy one of the Treo's. Well, that and the screen doesn't compare to that of my Palm T3. Why should I trade down, rather than up? I like my phones tiny, and my PDAs useable.

This whole thing is depressing. Kill this thread, I can handle no more.


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## Quicksilver (Feb 11, 2006)

fryke said:
			
		

> Well, I think the days of the PDA itself are numbered. Smartphones, video games (the PSP) and media players (the iPod) as well as simple mobile phones are all taking their place. For years now, PDAs have tried to adopt _those_ features, but it seems it works better the other way 'round.
> 
> If Apple were to come out with a PDA in the "classic" sense, it wouldn't go anywhere but where the Newton went. Down. They'd have to very _clearly_ do something else.
> 
> We still see the treo working alright in the market. We see Windows Mobile smartphones doing alright. We see Blackberry devices doing alright. We don't see much of those "daft old" PDAs doing alright, though.




Fryke, I believe Your right about the PDA days are numbered. But i believe that the Newton was far more advanced for its day than what some may think, in fact for simple reasons like a color screen, form factor and mabey somthing else is the real reason why it was going down.

Today in this media savy world where users are looking for mobile comfort and mobile usability. a digital companion has not really been understood by hardware developers. Only Apple really took this on with the Newton.

If we take a look at what is currently being shown on macrumors.com here
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060211144712.shtml we can see some patented designes that illustrates iTunes, iPhoto, a Word Processor like features being used on a mobile device.

A PDA i agree would be way to small, and i agree with steve's statements about a PDA. I think he really is educating the market, that PDA's don't work! I believe he is right. But I can't recall him saying anything negative about a digital companion, somthing that is between a PDA and a taplet/laptop.

Well i hope we see somthing like those illustrations soon. It looks FUN!!!



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## Quicksilver (Feb 21, 2006)

Over the past few weeks we have seen some dramatic patent applications and other rumors floating around that Apple may be releasing a new type of device/digital companion obviousley with the use of good touch screen and alternative user input methods.

You've probably already seen this but for the record i thought it would be great to share it in this thread.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Gallery_of_Touch_Screen_Interface_Patent




Hey, by the way. I reckon we should have a guessing competition about new up and comming Apple products. Mods, fryke, what do you think? This would be fun! 



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## fryke (Feb 22, 2006)

Well: You can do this yourself by creating the thread for it, right? Or even just use this one. You mean what all those patents will be used for? And whomever guessed it first right will win? Hm...


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## Quicksilver (Feb 22, 2006)

I'll start a new thread on this. yep, those patents could be a clue. 


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