# Ok what the heck is this?



## zynizen (Jun 5, 2007)

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

um, am I seeing things right, I know microsoft has been planning this for a while, hence the history of the technology, but, seriously, I wanted apple to develop this stuff, so it actually works! (hence the iPhone's capabilities)

it pains me that microsoft is doing this.. fear of them spying on everything.., knowing who and what is being "plugged in" to surface..


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## Lt Major Burns (Jun 5, 2007)

i'm willing to give microsoft a chance.  this is good.  they're moving into new directions.  innovative directions.

ignore their bloated windows and office malarkies, that's just their obligation...


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## zynizen (Jun 5, 2007)

If it's secure enough, and will not be tampered with, then I will give it a chance. After all, the demonstration of paying for different things, and shopping experiences, billing it right to your account, is risky business. They would have to work with all financial institutions worldwide to develop this further.

Interesting to see what happens though.


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## icemanjc (Jun 5, 2007)

Makes Microsoft a little more interesting.
I wonder what there going to do about finger prints.


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## Ferdinand (Jun 6, 2007)

I think this "touch-screen" table is a great innovation. Actually I'd love to have one of these at home. Think about all the possibilities of this product! You could organize your photos, watch family videos, write text and print it to your printer... send e-mails etc....


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## Thank The Cheese (Jun 6, 2007)

It's easy to slip into anti-MS rants (especially in this forum  ), but this looks very cool. Providing it works the way they advertise, this is a evry useful and innovative technology. Not something we're going to see in our homes IMO, but at restaurants and information booths etc, this would be fantastic. 

I have 2 fears:
1) it is far away from being released, and is at risk of become vaporware
2) it is going to have some kind of proprietary Touch For Sure® technology which all digital cameras, MP3 players, and others will need to adopt in order to interface with it. If this is going to work -- it needs to be an open standard (or even better, it should work with existing standards).


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## fryke (Jun 6, 2007)

Remember the rumours about a technology of a screen where each pixel is actively a camera? That'd blow _this_ tech away. I guess we haven't heard the first word about things like this.


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## nixgeek (Jun 6, 2007)

Not to rain on everyone's parade here with Microsoft's Surface, but it runs Vista under the hood.   While that makes me raise an eyebrow, I wonder if this won't be a future feature in later versions of Vista (possibly something that we purposely haven't been able to see from Vista just yet).

Definitely something to keep an eye on.


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## zynizen (Jun 6, 2007)

you know i posted a message stating that vienna release info, not sure how many read it, but in an earlier post regarding this exact same issue microsoft had said for their NEXT generation OS after vista, codenamed vienna, will be a completely new user interface... this just proves it's it.

I would gladly jump on board with this if it were secure enough, worked with current hardware, and wasn't a proprietary tech. that we all have to adopt... like "connecting and sync'ing to your zune!"  that was funny.. who has a zune??


actually the reason I started this thread, is I haven't heard anything regarding future dev with apple. Although i know they keep a tight lid on everything, they should let us know whats coming...  they obviously know MS has been planning this, so what are they storing under their noses...???


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## fryke (Jun 6, 2007)

zynizen said:


> this just proves it's it.



*Edit: I've just re-read the following post of mine and think it might sound a little _too_ pathetic. Hm. If you want to, skip it. *

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "proof". Nothing is what it proves. It _hints_ at things that might or might not make it to your personal computer in the future.
I'm sure there are quite a few concepts of how we might interact with computers in the future. For example, Apple's had speech recognition since the Macintosh Quadra, a line of 68K-based computers introduced in 1991 (although I'm not sure whether speech-recog was introduced a year or two later). That's over fifteen years now, and still I don't see _most_ Mac users make general use of it. They still hit Cmd-P for printing a document or select "Quit" from the menus to quit an application instead of uttering the words "Computer: Quit application" or "Computer: Print this document" etc.
Like I've said in that other thread: Concepts of operating a computer might sound 'sound' and still be defective or awkward or simply slower in actual use than what's already there.
I'm not saying we'll _never_ change the way we interact with computers, mind you! Just the other day, it hit me how quickly I've grown accustomed to use two fingers on my MacBook's trackpad to "right-click" or scroll through documents. I think the important part of that, though, is that it lets me work quickly without taking my hand too far away from the keyboard.

There certainly _are_ uses for new input technology. Most of those "incredible!" concepts have a very _specific_ target in mind, though, and they might not change how we interact with computers altogether. I'm just saying: Don't read too much into such stuff until it's actually _there_. In your hands. For, say, a hundred or a thousand bucks. Else you'll never let go of things like e-ink rollable display PDAs, "the paperless office" or fuel-cells giving your notebook 20 hours of "battery"-life with a drop of hydrogen.

Let's take things one at a time. Two-finger scrolling and right-clicking on MacBooks is here. It's great. Multitouch on the iPhone will be here in a matter of weeks (or months outside of the US). And I'm pretty sure it'll rock. But if you want to speculate about what "Vienna" will be like when it hits the streets, look at what "Longhorn" was going to be and what Vista actually delivered so far. Count the years it has taken them from a beautiful vision to a moderate update to their ageing operating system. Translate that to months or weeks and then: Think again.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jun 6, 2007)

(i've noticed just how much my first instinct now is to hit cmd+space if i want something.  a lot of people deride spotlight, and i agree it's not what it _could_ be, but as a first release, it's impressive how much it's changed my workflow for the better)

And the Surface is little more than a very good tech demo.   Sure, it's going to ship this year, and they -have- found uses for it, but it *is* a tech demo, and an answer to a question not many people have asked.  same with the iPhone's multitouch, it's a tech demo, a 'what-if?'.    Whether or not they have improved an entirely touch-based paradigm to the point that it's _genuinely_ useful remains to be seen.


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## CharlieJ (Jun 6, 2007)

Microsoft are trying to take over the world with this funny looking table. Imagine your neck after working on it. Ouch.
This will never work, or sell. just like all the other Microsoft products.


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## zynizen (Jun 6, 2007)

fryke said:


> *
> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "proof". Nothing is what it proves. It _hints_ at things that might or might not make it to your personal computer in the future.
> *



what was the timestamp on that? I think I must have been lost in cyberspace somewhere while writing that... my apologies.  LOL!

and I've been using ctrl + click all this time for right clicking...


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## Tommo (Jun 7, 2007)

CJ, it is not desgined to be used like a typical computer it looks very interesting though I'm not sure what would happen if you put your feet up on it while watching the football  

As for Microsoft stuff not working or selling I think the Xbox section might have a few comments to make on that. Have you still got your 360 by the way ?


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## Satcomer (Jun 7, 2007)

I wonder happens when someone spills a liquid on it or some kind of food crumbs?


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## bluedevils (Jun 7, 2007)

maybe this will revitalize the tablet PC


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## fryke (Jun 7, 2007)

You mean a very thick tablet in the form of a table? Nah.


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## bobw (Jun 7, 2007)

Surface machines will cost $5000 to $10,000 at launch, so probably not many of us will be buying.


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## Lt Major Burns (Jun 7, 2007)

Satcomer said:


> I wonder happens when someone spills a liquid on it or some kind of food crumbs?



the entire top of it is inch-thick plexiglass.  so i suppose what would happen is you would get a cloth, as otherwise it would dry and go a bit sticky, which can be annoying


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## CharlieJ (Jun 7, 2007)

Tommo said:


> CJ, it is not desgined to be used like a typical computer it looks very interesting though I'm not sure what would happen if you put your feet up on it while watching the football
> 
> As for Microsoft stuff not working or selling I think the Xbox section might have a few comments to make on that. Have you still got your 360 by the way ?


I think this is just another stupid thing from Microsoft.
They have spent so much time devloping this. Why dont they spend this time on a new OS. That will give them enough time to copy Apple and Google entirely.
Yes, I do have my 360... I'm not even going to get started with my 360. The disk doesnt stop spinning before the xbox ejects it. I could get a new one... but I cant be bothered. I've aready had 5 replacements. The only game I play is halo anyway... and at first that was designed for mac. Im not totally addicted to apple... I Swear...
If you would like to add my gamertag. I am CJ UK 1992 or Old Granny Mary (Modding Account)


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## Ferdinand (Jun 9, 2007)

The real question is: How does it recognize different drinks, mobiles etc... ? It's not like you put a bar-code on every bottle of coke saying what kind it is! In these demonstration videos, the people just put their phones on it, and it knows everything about it. Ok, their might be some way of doing this with electronical stuff (phones, laptops, PDAs etc.), but DRINKS? I mean come on! How can it tell apart apple and orange juice in the same sort glass/bottle? It doesn't have smelling-sensors, nor does it have a camera, only the touch-technology. And that isn't (by far) enough to know what you're putting on it.

I think this "Microsoft Surface" thing won't come out for at least another two years.


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## fryke (Jun 9, 2007)

The articles I've read about it _do_ talk about such tags, though for objects put on the surface. A code consisting of a few dots. Basically, this means it does _not_ recognise unknown objects, even if they look exactly the same besides that code AFAIK.


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## Captain Code (Jun 9, 2007)

Ferdinand said:


> The real question is: How does it recognize different drinks, mobiles etc... ? It's not like you put a bar-code on every bottle of coke saying what kind it is! In these demonstration videos, the people just put their phones on it, and it knows everything about it. Ok, their might be some way of doing this with electronical stuff (phones, laptops, PDAs etc.), but DRINKS? I mean come on! How can it tell apart apple and orange juice in the same sort glass/bottle? It doesn't have smelling-sensors, nor does it have a camera, only the touch-technology. And that isn't (by far) enough to know what you're putting on it.
> 
> I think this "Microsoft Surface" thing won't come out for at least another two years.



RFID tags.  The phone had wifi which explains how they transferred pictures from it.  

Personally, I liked the one by some guy at MIT that worked on the same multitouch concept.  His was using touch screen tech. and Microsoft's uses 5 different cameras to sense the motion.  Probably one of the reasons it costs so much.


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## Mario8672 (Jun 10, 2007)

Whoa! That is SO cool!


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## CharlieJ (Jun 11, 2007)

I think this is a cool thing to have in a bar/resturant... but in the home? imagine having to plug a table in? I bet it even has one of those mag safe leads  If a girl was round your house a put a drink on a table and it lit up, she would be freaked out and plus it will make you look like a complete nerd.


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## Thank The Cheese (Jun 22, 2007)

Gizmodo has posted a video demo of someone who has adapted the surface technology into a laptop. 

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/touch-me...-laptop-based-on-the-surface-table-271065.php

looks great. obviously early days -- the GUI of modern OS's is not set up for this, and it does not seem very responsive -- but very cool.

I was reading up on the Surface technology earlier this week and they use cameras rather than touch sensors to detect movement. I'm no engineer, but doesn't this seem over-complicated? They say they use cameras so that they can detect multiple touch areas at the same time -- but I don't see why you can't detect multiple touch sources using a sensor pad (an example of this is MacBooks which scroll when it detects 2 finders on the touchpad). 

From what I have read it seems their technology uses similar techniques to those used for things like the EyeToy -- where software analyses each frame from a streaming video and detects the pixel differences between one frame and the next to calculate which objects are moving. It just seems like an inelegant solution to me as it is far less precise than a sensor grid. I wouldn't think it would do a good job with quick movements (such as typing on a touch screen). You could see from the video above when they showed the video of what the computer is seeing -- it lacked accuracy and responsiveness. 

agree, disagree?


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## Ferdinand (Jun 22, 2007)

Didn't Apple patent the multi-touch technology and everything, because this "pinching" and "stretching" stuff is used by the iPhone!

PS: TTC: I agree with you - the first time he clicked, the computer didn't even respond! Only when he pointed it directly to the middle of the screen did it work...


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## CaribbeanOS-X (Jun 30, 2007)

Nice flash presentation with actors pretending to actually use the touch screen... 

"And Action: 
Key the the actor to touch the glass table..."NOW!"... 
Ahhh you missed it again... CUT CUT CUT.... 
ok from the top TAKE *1049*..."

You guys know where i am coming from!

Warmly,

CaribbeanOS-X


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## Rhisiart (Jul 7, 2007)

I am pretty sure Apple have similar ideas. However, they would have to be pretty sure these things will sell before investing millions into their developement.

I personally like the concept, but I would rather have the hardware powered by MacOS than Vista (or Vienna, whatever).


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## fryke (Jul 7, 2007)

Recent rumours state that Apple's working on a multitouch mouse. I guess that's a more decent (and much simpler and less expensive) way of implementing gestures to the user interface.


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## bbloke (Jul 9, 2007)

On a different note, here's the Microsoft Surface Parody video.


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## Qion (Jul 9, 2007)

bbloke said:


> On a different note, here's the Microsoft Surface Parody video.



That video was totally worth watching


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## karavite (Sep 7, 2007)

It is cool, but Apple is the first out with a similar UI in the iPhone. The iPhone is essentially a surface, just a small one. In addition, Apple already has hardware that is flat and thin - think iMacs. Now tie in the best UI design on the planet and I'd put my money on Apple getting something else out that is better and perhaps even sooner than MS.


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## icemanjc (Sep 7, 2007)

so what ever happened to it, I havent heard a peep about it since it came out.


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