# CD burning in OSX is PATHETIC



## Javintosh (Oct 5, 2002)

and yes, I mean for those to be all caps.

This is the one thing that bothers me the most about OSX (yes, I am using 10.2.1).

now don't go telling me to get Toast. I got Toast and I think it works great, but my mother in law, who spent what she considers a fortune on her computer. is not about to go out and spent $80 to get what should be absolutely minimal cd burning functionality.

I've tried a number of things, and for the life of me I cannot make a CD rom readable by my co worker's windows computers. Currently I am trying the following:
1. make MS DOS formatted blank image in disk copy
2. copy files from CD image to new image manually in finder
3. burn disk image to CD in the finder

I don't know if this will work or not. I don't have a windows machine to try this on.

I can tell you, that it took a couple of minutes to create the image, then it took 8 minutes to copy 60 MB of data into said image (much, much slower than copying to UNIX of MacOS images - I've tried them both) and I can finally start to burn the image (after getting a message about the image being in use because it is mounted).

of course, this does not work because I get a message stating that the data in the image will not mount properly when burned to a disc (the 100MB size I suspect, but in reality I do not know)

I should point out that I made the image from a device using disc copy. you'd think that making an image from a ISO9660 disk would result in an ISO9660 image. However, that would give waaaay too much credit to apple's sh!tty CD burning software. BTW, I tried "new Image from device" and "new image from colume of folder" - they both case out as MacOS Extended.

I don't know... maybe I've been hit by a massive case of targetted stupidity, but this in a constant embarassemt both at home (I sent disks to 31 parents from my wife's class only to find out about the MacOS X 10.2 problem with windows CDs. of course, I've had no luck using 10.2.1 either) and at work (two of my co-workers got iBooks only to find themselves completely unable to make windows CDs. also I've had to divert people away from lab macs when they are about to make CDs. I got Toast in my computer at work, but there are many other macs floating around that do not belong to me and do not have toast).

While I am ranting about CD burning I should also point out that burning in the finder is completely embarassing as well. I've had people ask me to burn some files to a CD (thankfully destined for another mac). I copy the files into the CD, the finder shows the progress bar as the data is optimized. at this point most people think the CD is done (hey they only have experience with windows, what  do they know about macs!). It's hard to tell this people that the mac is better when I also have to tell them at this point that the CD burning it just starting.

it simply seems like you have to make too many copies of the data to burn a lousy CD in the finder.

in any case, in addition to ranting, I wanted a little help. Has anyone made a CD for a windows computer successfully? if so, how did you do it? if you tried, but were not successfull can you post your experiences.... they say that misery loves company, but psychological experiments have shown that misery loves *miserable* company   (I knew that psyc degree would come in handy at some point)

thanks!


----------



## Sogni (Oct 5, 2002)

Why not:
Create a new folder wherever you want using the finder,
Drag or copy all the stuff you want to burn to a CD into that folder,
Burn the contents of the folder onto a CD - be in that folder when you click Burn.
(View/Customize Toolbar and drag "Burn" (yellow hazard circle) to the toobar and click that when ready)

If something wants to take over when you insert the CD, go to System Preferences, under Hardware click CDs & DVDs, select Finder for when you insert a new CD.

You'll see the blank CD mount... which will be a quicker way if you have a 2nd CD Rom Drive, or all the files are already on your hard drive - just drag everything into the blank CD and eject it when you are done (it'll burn contents to CD before ejecting).

And my PCs (Win2K Pro and WinXP Pro) read the Mac-Burned CDs perfectly...


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 5, 2002)

I just burned a CD using those instructions. I'll sent it on its way monday morning and see what happens (that's the first thing I tried waaay back then).

I should note, however, that most of my wife's parents are running Win98 and at work we are still using WinNT 4.0.

Has anyone had any luck getting MacOSX burned CDs to work with either of those Operating systems?


----------



## plastic (Oct 6, 2002)

Worked OK on the Win 98 machine at the office. I have to share doc files with the admin lady in the office. She has not complained about not being able to read my Mac-created Word/Excel files on her computer. 

Javin... you kinda hate Macs don't you?


----------



## Sogni (Oct 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Javintosh _
> *I just burned a CD using those instructions. I'll sent it on its way monday morning and see what happens (that's the first thing I tried waaay back then).
> 
> I should note, however, that most of my wife's parents are running Win98 and at work we are still using WinNT 4.0.
> ...



At the office (dayjob) we create Windows software CDs (I'm the IT & Tech Support Manager of a small software company) using a Mac  (see my sig for this Mac's specs) with Disk Copy (the way I set it up is much simpler and quicker than Roxio Toast), and have shipped software cds to people with all versions of Windows imaginable (except for Windows 3.11 and lower) and no one has yet complained about it not working...


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 6, 2002)

just wanted to answer plastic without having this thread turn into a flame war. This is how much I hate macs:

I have never owned *any* windows computers. Right now, there are 4 macs at home with 3 in active service at the moment (one running Yellow Dog Linux for my master's project).

I convinced the managers at work to buy macs (although we needed them, they refused until I brow beat them into it). I've been personally responsible for getting almost 40 macs installed at work over the last few years.

If at all possible, I buy things that are Mac-only. This includes:
SoundSticks
Keyspan DRM (before they release windows software)
Countour Design accessories for my mac (feet and flat top)
iMic

I will buy the ADC version of the Formac studio display (over teh DVI version) early next year because it is mac-only (and has obvious benefits).

I've aslo paid for a raft of shareware that I may not need to pay for, but I like to support the mac shareware developers.

That said, the computers at work do not come with CD burners so people often turn to the macs in the lab. To many of these people, that's their only exposure to Macs. So far, unless I'm using my personal mac (with Toast), their experiences with the mac have been somewhere between sort of bad to very bad.

If this has not been a huge issue to other people, I'll have to go back and take a look at the NT workstations at work...

PS>I may have been a little cranky yesterday after spending  beautifull day slaving away on my master's project....


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 6, 2002)

BTW, this is my current setup:
677Mhz G4 
1.2GB of RAM
180GB of storage
dual 17" apple 1705 displays (soon to be replaced by formac's 21" LCD)
6 USB ports (with 6 USB controllers for maximum thoughput)
8 Firewire ports (2 controllers)

My HP printer is setup with the (mac-only) 175x appletalk ethernet to USB print server


----------



## plastic (Oct 6, 2002)

Javin, I was just kidding.


----------



## Maximus (Oct 6, 2002)

I have a peripheral burner, an old, very expensive ezquest.  I bought just before all the prices came down.  OS X drives it, but it often fails in the confirmation part of the burn.  I can make CDs, but it's frustrating.  For instance, Apple's backup software doesn't work with it.  It always fails.

On the other hand, I have burned photo cds for family - who are all on Windows - but only by dragging all of the items within the folder to the main desktop.  In other words, no folders - and everything is fine.

I'll try the disk copy.  I'm not sure I get what some are saying - and I don't have a pc to try against.  Generally now, the cd burner works for other macs when I burn directly from the desktop.  It doesn't work when I use programs like Backup or iTunes.

I agree that this is still an area that needs work.  Maybe things would be different if I had an internal burner?  But it is still frustrating.


----------



## gigi (Oct 6, 2002)

> that most of my wife's parents are running Win98



Most of your wife's parents ??

How many parents does she have ?


----------



## Ripcord (Oct 6, 2002)

According to his original post, his wife has at least 31 parents in her class...   

Sorry, I couldn't help it


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 7, 2002)

You are right... My wife's parents are running OS 9.2.2. The parents of my wife's 31 children are mostly running Win98....

then again that doesn't sound good either...


----------



## rharder (Oct 7, 2002)

Don't forget about Disk Copy. It has some disk burning features that are not directly accessible from the Finder: erasing CD/DVD-RW, burning image to disc, making image from a disc.

-Rob


----------



## Chris Belwinds (Oct 7, 2002)

"According to his original post, his wife has at least 31 parents in her class..."

In Huxley's Brave New World this would be called a Bokanovsky's Group... ;-)


----------



## sixthring (Oct 8, 2002)

Worked flawlessly on my 10.2.1 with all recent updates box.  CD worked with Winblows 98, 2000, XP.  We don't run any NT machines here.  It may be an obvious thing, but it is often overlooked by mac users, be sure all files have the proper extentions.


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 8, 2002)

The files I needed to burn have the proper extensions in them. if other people are not having trouble, then it must be something in the NT setup (which is company-wide). It seems to be working for everyone. I have to look into it a littel more.


----------



## foRgoTTeN (Oct 9, 2002)

i'm a user of an ibook ( a new user actually ) and i know practically nil about the mac but one thing people told me is that it is user friendly. i thought that an ibook is able to burn audio cds but i have not been succesful so far... even when i follow instructions to the help menu. is there anyway i am able to burn audio cds?


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 9, 2002)

audio cds are burned from within iTunes. You must create a new playlist and organize the songs you want into that playlist. then burn the playlist to CD (the browse button t=on the top right corner will switch to a burn button when you are in a playlist).


----------



## roger (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah - as Javintosh says.

Macs are very user friendly - sometimes too user friendly for new Windows converts (I was one myself), who often expect it to be harder.

Create a playlist in iTunes
Drag the songs in that you want
Hit the big radioactive button.

R.


----------



## hazmat (Oct 9, 2002)

Javintosh: I've never had a problem with Windows reading a CD made in the Finder.


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 9, 2002)

I finally got a chance to try that at work again. It's working again...

Thinking back, I think that I tried to use the finder under 10.2 before I knew about the problem with 10.2 and burning windows CD. After this I tried a variety of other ways to burn the CD via the Disk Copy Utility. I had all sorts of problems. After I upgraded to 10.2.1 I kept trying to use Disk Copy because that's what i was doing all along...

as an aside, I am also trying to burn UFS CDs for Solaris.

I guess we all get smacked by the stupidity paddle from time to time. =>


----------



## Sogni (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Javintosh _
> *
> I guess we all get smacked by the stupidity paddle from time to time. => *



LOL
Hey, it happens to the best of us! 

ESPECIALLY when using multiple OSs - and even more so when using the same keyboard (Apple Pro) on different systems/OSs after being used to PC keyboards! hehe 

I'm glad it worked for you afterall!


----------



## foRgoTTeN (Oct 12, 2002)

i know what u mean when u say there is the 'burn' icon at the top right hand corner. but aren't all ibooks supposed to have that icon? mine has only the import sign but not the burn icon. when i put a blank cd into the computer it asks if i want to format it for burning. but when i click on the audio cd category it doesn't work.
can it be that my ibook doesn't have cd burning software? tot all ibooks are supposed to have it. and mine runs on mac os x.
pls help. any suggestions? thx


----------



## Javintosh (Oct 13, 2002)

that icon only says import when you have an audio CD in the drive...

select a playlist from the left side. the icon should now say Burn. if you hit it, iTunes should prompt you to put a CD into the computer.


----------



## Hypernate (Oct 13, 2002)

Yeh. The button will say Browse if you're in the library, Import if you have an Audio CD in the drive, Burn when you're in a playlist, and Options when you have the Visualizations running. 

Are you trying to copy a CD directly? If so, you can't do that with iTunes. What you have to do is import all the tracks to a playlist (make a new playlist with the + button, and then select all the tracks on the CD and drag them to the playlist), and then once that's done, take the Audio CD out of th edrive, and click the playlist you want to burn, and press the Burn button. It will ask you to put in a CDR, so do so when it tells you to.


----------



## gstump (Nov 12, 2002)

I am also having problems burning CD's for windows.  I am using the Jaguar edition of Mac OS X.  When I try to burn a cd with a hiearchy of folders it cannot be read by either WIN NT or XP computers.  When I burn to the root directory I have no problems.  

I am very new to Mac computers and generally much happier than I have ever been with PC's.  Maybe I am just doing something wrong, but I can't seem to figure it out.


----------



## Maximus (Nov 12, 2002)

That is exactly my problem.  I assumed it was because I was using a third-party burner that had been bought when OS X was not yet released.  The hierarchy of folders works fine in Mac OS, just not in Windows.  Perhaps it is simply a fact of life - that Windows refuses to read folder hierarchies that do not originate in Windows?


----------



## karavite (Nov 12, 2002)

Javintosh, I feel your pain! In the Windows dominated world, I think it is absolutely critical that Apple make this and any other type of file sharing task or activity with PCs completely brainless from the Mac side - zero effort! 

Although some users may be interested in the geeky details, the average user should not have to be concerned - all of this should be completely transparent to the user. Is that easy to do? Probably not, but that's why they pay the Apple people the big bucks.

So whether one is burnng a disk like you, sending a .mov file with Mail or sharing files with a PC on a local network, Apple has to clean up its act on making Macs and Windows machines love each other if they really want more people to "switch." MS certainly isn't going to do it for them.


----------



## Javintosh (Nov 12, 2002)

At least this got cleaned up with 10.2.1 (but unfortunately not before I sent out 31 CDs to people that mostly use windows...  ).

CDs burned in the finder will work seamlessly on windows.


----------



## Maximus (Nov 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Javintosh _
> *At least this got cleaned up with 10.2.1 (but unfortunately not before I sent out 31 CDs to people that mostly use windows...  ).
> 
> CDs burned in the finder will work seamlessly on windows. *



I burn all of my cds in the finder.  Unfortunately, given my setup, which is not an apple built in burner, cds burned in the finder do not work seamlessly on windows.  Perhaps it has to do with the third-party burner I have.  The reason so far, is unclear to me.  I'm no techie.  However, the problem did not go away for me as it did for others.  I burn my cds with no folder hierarchy when I know it is going to a windows person.


----------



## ex2bot (Nov 25, 2002)

Maybe this is unnecessary (and if so, soryboutthat). . . 

To Gstump and Maximus,

To clarify for people asking why Windows machines can't read cdr's burned in OSX 10.2.0, it is a known bug that the initial release of 10.2 does NOT burn cds correctly. They don't work correctly on Windows machines.

Upgrade to OS X 10.2.2.


----------



## TommyWillB (Aug 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sixthring _
> *Worked flawlessly on my 10.2.1 with all recent updates box.  CD worked with Winblows 98, 2000, XP.  We don't run any NT machines here.  It may be an obvious thing, but it is often overlooked by mac users, be sure all files have the proper extentions. *


If that is true then the CD's must be burned using something other than the Apple HFS+ (hierarchical file system)... Can someone do a Get Info on a burned disc and tell us what non-HFS+ File System it is using?

I'm thining it is one of those ISO hybrid disc's that is readable by multiple OS's.

... but if that's true the Finder does not make this at all clear. The disc image it makes before burning is clearly HFS+, so I can't imagine how the finder could be turning this into an ISO disc when burning.

Please help me connect the technical dots here! (Toast is great because it maket this stuff very clear. The Finder should also make this clear _before_ you burn, not after.)


----------



## TommyWillB (Aug 2, 2003)

RE Audio CD's...

I few folks mentioned Audio CD's, but those are burned in the special "Red Book" CD Audio format. they do not use either the Mac HFS/HFS+ or Windows Fat/NTFS file systems. Red Book is basically it's own file system and thus auto-magically readable across multiple platforms.

The question is what format are data discs burned in. If it is HFS then it should not be readable on WinDoze...


----------



## TommyWillB (Aug 2, 2003)

Okay... I found the answer:





> _from: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61342_
> Your computer gives you three options for preparing a blank CD for burning: Standard (HFS Plus/ISO 9660), iTunes (Audio CD), and MP3 (ISO 9660).


I guess I did not understand that a disc coulg simultaniously be ISO 9660 and HFS+...

So the fact is this disc should be readable on WinDoze because it can read ISO 9660.


----------



## Arden (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think that's the case, because in Toast Titanium there are options for making Mac discs, ISO discs and custom hybrid discs.  Plus, in the basic "Data" option, you can select whether this is Mac-only or hybrid.

Jav:  You should check your system's statistics again.  I don't think Apple ever made any computers that ran at 677 Mhz; perhaps you mean 766?  Or did you overclock it?

Belwinds:  I like the BNW reference.

In general, if anyone wants to burn a disc destined for the Dark Side, it has to be in ISO 9660 format.


----------



## wapstar (Aug 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hazmat _
> *Javintosh: I've never had a problem with Windows reading a CD made in the Finder. *



I also have never had a problem burning CDs from the finder


----------



## solrac (Aug 4, 2003)

just use toast


----------



## chevy (Aug 6, 2003)

My son burns disks on my Mac (with the Finder) and uses these on  his PC without any problem.


----------



## hulkaros (Aug 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chevy _
> *My son burns disks on my Mac (with the Finder) and uses these on  his PC without any problem. *



Here is hoping that your son uses a Mac, too!


----------



## chevy (Aug 6, 2003)

No, he bought a PC to play games...

When working for school, he's back on the mac.


----------



## Arden (Aug 6, 2003)

Toast is one of those programs that you practically need if you have a CD burner.  It's quite indispensible.


----------

