# What would you do?



## Trip (Sep 28, 2003)

You're sitting at home alone. On the computer or watching TV. And you hear the sound of glass breaking in a room down the hall from you. You quickly get out of your seat to see what you can. As you turn the corner you see light from flashlights and hear the voices of strangers. In the background the screaming noise of glass breaking again sounds, this time closer. You grab the phone and try calling 911 but a man starts coming at you from the hall, you drop the phone. You run towards the front door as you hear glass breaking for the third time. You run outside into the street screaming for help. Two elderly neighbors down the street hear your cries and quickly run into their home. You can see from the street that most of your home windows have been broken and it appears there are people inside running around. Two men come out and begin chasing you down. Closer and closer they get. You're heart begins to hurt and beat faster than it ever has. You can feel your mind get dizzy. You've lost it all.


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## Trip (Sep 28, 2003)

Wow, erm, can somebody delete this? The reason I wrote it was because I'm home alone and got scared for a minute.  But now I'm not afraid somebody's going to break in. I'm afraid I have indeed broken my foot and we don't have the money or time to pay for it.


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## Jason (Sep 28, 2003)

sorry dude


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## Arden (Sep 29, 2003)

I would run until they caught me, then do my damndest to get them to talk to me in a reasonable manner instead of dashing my brains against the sidewalk.

Trip, if your foot is broken you have to get it treated now, money be damned.  If you don't, you'll end up like Sogni, having problems later on down the road due to an injury that healed wrong.  You can always pay your medical bills over time, even if you don't have much money.


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## Randman (Sep 29, 2003)

I'd make sure I was in the right house. Maybe it was the neighbors thinking I was scarfing down all the Code Red and Nacho Cheese Doritos in their house while watching Girls Gone Wild Vol 4.


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## Arden (Sep 29, 2003)

So that's why they smash their own windows?


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## Darkshadow (Sep 29, 2003)

Well, if you couldn't run, you could always try grabbing a baseball bat. 

What the heck got you thinking along those lines, anyway?


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## Trip (Sep 29, 2003)

Well, we always think of ourselves as superior beings. If somebody broke into your house chances are you'd beat the crap out of them...right? What if you couldn't?

Anyway, I was watching tv all alone and I heard a noise in the backroom. My neighborhood is known for break-ins and murders and junk like that. So I'm a bit paranoid. But deep down I know i'll be fine.


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## Darkshadow (Sep 29, 2003)

Well, if it was only one guy, I feel pretty confident I could take 'em on...so long as they didn't have a gun, that's a bit hard to take on.

But 3 or 4 guys, that's a different story.  Unless they decided to wait in line and come at me one by one.


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## mdnky (Sep 30, 2003)

Don't know about where you live, but in most states if they cross your threshold (door, window, etc.) without you permission, then you're legally allowed to take any necessary action to ensure the safety of yourself and your belongings.

Baseball bat, rabid dog, or in my case Glock 23.  

I do remember hearing of a guy who was awaken by an intruder in his house while his 2 kids were there...intruder had a knife so the owner retrieved his bow and shot him.  Made a big stink because the cops arrested him when he sought treatment at a hospital...for an arrow sticking out of his backside.  OUCH!

I'd be more worried if the guy (intruder) had a knife than a gun...


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## podmate (Sep 30, 2003)

um...easy.  Shoot the bastards.

Down here in the South, its an unwritten rule:
if somebody breaks into your house, shoot them twice.  If they crawl out of the house, pull them back in and then shoot them again.


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## mdnky (Sep 30, 2003)

Yup...good ol`threshold rule.


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## Ricky (Sep 30, 2003)

We have a "Make My Day" law in Colorado where if someone breaks into your house, you are allowed to shoot the intruder and not face any penalty.


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## Trip (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by podmate _
> *um...easy.  Shoot the bastards.
> 
> Down here in the South, its an unwritten rule:
> if somebody breaks into your house, shoot them twice.  If they crawl out of the house, pull them back in and then shoot them again. *



lol! That's the coolest thing I've heard! Mind if I quote it for my website (i'll need your real name [just first name])! What part of the south are you from?

I don't own a gun.  I want to own a pellet gun that shoots a pallet so fast it can break bones, but my mom won't let me have one.  Maybe when I'm older I'll get a good shotgun under the bed.


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## Arden (Sep 30, 2003)

In Texas, you can shoot someone just for trespassing, not even breaking in.  In California you'd probably get arrested or sued just for raising your voice at the guy.


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## g/re/p (Sep 30, 2003)

"Trespassers will be shot, 
Survivors will be shot TWICE"


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## Darkshadow (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, unless they've finally repealed the law recently, in Texas it's still legal to hang someone for stealing your cattle. 

And I was born & raised in Texas, so don't anyone else thing I'm poking fun here.


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## Arden (Oct 1, 2003)

"MOOO!!"  Uh oh... *runs*


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## ksv (Oct 2, 2003)

You know, in Norway, where there are actually more guns per citizen than in the US, there is no such thing as armed burglars. Go figure


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## UNIX X11 (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by g/re/p _
> *"Trespassers will be shot,
> Survivors will be shot TWICE" *


 GTA VICE CITY BABY! 
I'd type sudo shutdown and put them into a shell


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## Arden (Oct 3, 2003)

Wouldn't you have to do that in the reverse order?


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## UNIX X11 (Oct 3, 2003)

Umm... sudo shutdown boots into a shell... so... no...


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## brianleahy (Oct 3, 2003)

One of my favorite self-defense stories.  Unfortunately, I got it 3rd hand, so I may have some parts wrong.   If anyone else has heard this story and knows some of the details I am missing, I'd love to hear em.   It could even be an urban legend for all I know.

I once heard a story about an 80+ year old man in NYC who was a martial arts instructor - a real expert.   He was small and frail looking, but obviously, his looks were deceptive.

One day, while he was walking home late at night, two teenage punks armed with knives leaped out and tried to mug him.

The old man destroyed them.  Both attackers died.  Each sustained 3 or 4 grave wounds, any one of which would have been fatal on its own.

Clearly it was self-defense, but one of the punks had been married, and his widow sued the old man, claiming that at his level of expertise, he should have been able to fend them off without killing them.

The old man beat the rap when his lawyer called in other experts from his particular martial art.  They testified that the moves the old man had used were a standard self-defense sequence, used to fend off an unexpected attack.  They said students had these moves drilled into their heads from day one, and so with no time to assess his opponents, the old man could not have switched to a less agressive defense.

The widow lost the suit.


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## nervus (Oct 3, 2003)

In my country (the Netherlands) you cannot have any guns/weapons: the right on force is just for the authorities (police/army). So if a criminal decides to break in your house, he will probably not be armed! If he is, you are scr3w3d, of course. OTH if you 'damage' the thief * you* will be prosecuted  

BTW my house was once visited by a thief a few years ago during the night. My wife,  children and me were at home and asleep; we did not notice anything until the next morning. Since that time we have a burglar alarm ::ha:: 

Greetings
nervus


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## brianleahy (Oct 3, 2003)

In *some* parts of the US, you can definitely get in trouble for using excessive force on an intruder, which I personally find appalling.   (I'm appalled that it's illegal.  Not that people would do it.  If burglars want to stay safe, they should stay OUT of my house.) 

One thing that is illegal nation-wide:  lethal booby traps.   You cannot set up a device that will automatically kill intruders.   NON-lethal devices (pepper spray, dye pellets, etc.)  are not such a big deal, but sometimes you will hear a story about someone who set up a shotgun to blow away anyone who comes in the back door.  Not allowed!


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## Trip (Oct 3, 2003)

Well I can understand the shotgun being illegal, imagine if you're daughter stayed out late and you forgot she was out, set the gun, and went to bed. Yea...that would suck.

That story about the martial arts guy is so cool! I took karate for 3 years, but I still feel like anybody could kick my trash.


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## Arden (Oct 12, 2003)

Hey Trip, I'm home alone right now and it's 2 a.m.  And I'm aaaallll aloooone.  And nooooobody's cooooooming.  Ooo, scary.  ::alien::


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## Trip (Oct 12, 2003)

Are you mocking me?


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## Arden (Oct 12, 2003)

Indubitably so. 

But I wasn't joking, my mom & sister stayed the night in the Bay Area and my dad lives across town now, so I really was home alone all night.  And I still am.  But I'm 18, and I can take care of myself, so not to worry.  Not that I do...


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## RPS (Oct 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by podmate _
> *um...easy.  Shoot the bastards.
> 
> Down here in the South, its an unwritten rule:
> if somebody breaks into your house, shoot them twice.  If they crawl out of the house, pull them back in and then shoot them again. *



...And nobody here thinks that's a bit uncivilized?


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## brianleahy (Oct 12, 2003)

Literally dragging someone back in to shoot them - yes, a bit.

But frankly, I don't think burglars have any right to expect safety while "on the job".


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## mdnky (Oct 13, 2003)

If they have the guts to break into my house, then it's a perfectly logical assumption that they have no regard for other "rules of society" and I personally will not give them a chance to harm myself, or anyone else in the house.  

They made their choice, and they will suffer the consequences of their actions.


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## Arden (Oct 13, 2003)

And if you so much as lay a finger on them, they can sue you.  Stupid laws.


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## Trip (Oct 13, 2003)

Well then make sure they're not alive enough to sue you.


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## RPS (Oct 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mdnky _
> *If they have the guts to break into my house, then it's a perfectly logical assumption that they have no regard for other "rules of society"*



So what you're saying is, if someone breaks the law, he can't depend on the law to protect him, and you should be the one punishing him. So according to your theory, if I run a red light, while I damn well _know_ that's illegal, I'm ignoring rules of society and anyone who does obey the rules of society can punch me in the face... (or shoot me).. Locigal..


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## brianleahy (Oct 13, 2003)

I would think it pretty obvious that running a red light (assuming you don't, for instance, flatten a pedestrian or crash into another vehicle) is in a whole different weight-class than breaking into someone's home, especially WHILE THE OWNERS ARE IN THERE.

There is established precendent.  Self-defense (and in many cases, defense of another) has always been recognized as a valid reason to injure or even kill someone.  I maintain that it is EMMINENTLY reasonable to assume that anyone who has the nerve to enter my house without permission WHILE I AM THERE IS A DANGER TO ME AND MY FAMILY.  He goes down.


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## RPS (Oct 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *I would think it pretty obvious that running a red light (assuming you don't, for instance, flatten a pedestrian or crash into another vehicle) is in a whole different weight-class than breaking into someone's home*



It's just a comparison.



> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *especially WHILE THE OWNERS ARE IN THERE.*



Maybe the burglar doesn't know you're at home until he sees you, then you shoot him because he has the nerve to come when you're at home...



> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> *I maintain that it is EMMINENTLY reasonable to assume that anyone who has the nerve to enter my house without permission WHILE I AM THERE IS A DANGER TO ME AND MY FAMILY.*



True..



> _Originally posted by brianleahy _
> He goes down. [/B]



But after you've shot him in the legs, arm, shoulder, whatever, he is of no danger anymore. You don't have to drag him back to kill him. That has nothing to do with self defence.


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## brianleahy (Oct 13, 2003)

> But after you've shot him in the legs, arm, shoulder, whatever, he is of no danger anymore. You don't have to drag him back to kill him. That has nothing to do with self defence.



On that point, I agree.  I, personally, would not drag him back inside to shoot him again.

I should add that I personally do not own a gun.  I'd be beating on him with something, maybe my fireplace poker or wood-chopping hatchet. (If he's lucky, I'd use the blunt side.)

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that a burglar's best bet, upon being discovered, would be to flee, immediately, at top speed.  If he's still pretty healthy when he leaves, then it's more dangerous for the homeowner to pursue him than to just let him go.


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## mdnky (Oct 16, 2003)

RPS:  other rules of society mean killing me or another in the house.  I share brianleahy's feeling on the matter, if they have the balls to come in, then I will assume they have them to injur or kill someone they find there.  END OF STORY.

The redlight thing is completely another topic, and isn't a good comparison.  

Of course, in Cali if they break in and cut themselves on your window they broke, they can sue you and win...now, tell me, how screwed-up is that?!?


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## Arden (Oct 16, 2003)

What do you expect from a state that elected Ah-nold for Gubbanator?


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## applewhore (Oct 16, 2003)

Justice?  Just a word...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3009769.stm

The UK is, sadly, going down...


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## mdnky (Oct 17, 2003)

They've been like that for many years before the recall Arden.  Hopefully things might change, we'll just have to wait and see.


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## mdnky (Oct 17, 2003)

> _The parole board, however, has continually refused him early release - saying he has shown no remorse and would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars._



I can see the "no remorse" part, but the danger to other burglars part is just downright a joke.


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## applewhore (Oct 17, 2003)

I'm afraid I think the whole thing's a joke...

If I lived in the middle of nowhere, by myself, and had been the victim of countless burglaries, I would feel no remorse at doing what Tony Martin did...

Remember, guys - HE's the victim!

effing stupid, IMHO...


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## nervus (Oct 18, 2003)

> Barras was shot in the back and died at the scene, while Fearon was shot in the leg and recovered after treatment in hospital.


Shooting anyone in the back is an act of a coward   


> Martin argued that he had genuinely been acting in self-defence.


Sure...   


> His barrister told the court Martin had suffered sexual abuse as a child and "considered himself a boy of about ten".


So it is ok to give a "child" a gun and let it do what his impulses tell him to do? 
The horrid thing in this case is the apparent incapability of the local police force to protect both Martin and the villains/burglars from each other. Probably this is caused by shortage of financial means. Did the Labour Party cut the budget for police enforcement?

Greetings
nervus


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## Trip (Oct 18, 2003)

I completely agree with applewhore.


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## applewhore (Oct 18, 2003)

yay!

it's the beginning of a new day here in bangkok, and someone thinks i'm right!

yay!


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## mdnky (Oct 20, 2003)

nervus, I'll agree the guy went a bit too far given the circumstances that are know by us right now.  

However, the thing about the police budget is useless.  Police are responsible for the safety of the community they serve as a whole, not on an individual basis.  So personal preotection is still your own responsibility.

He may be the victim, but he may have reacted a bit too much.  Regardless, they did enter his house and deserve what they got.  We don't know how everything happened, since none of us were there, so it fruitless to judge the incident.  I'm sure he was justified shooting the guy in the leg, but the other in the back is a touchy subject.  We don't know if the one hit in the back had a weapon himselft or not.  If he did, just because he was turned around doesn't mean he was harmless, he may have been going to find cover.


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