# Ethernet accross my house



## smithy (Feb 25, 2005)

Hi,

Well i dont think this is actually networking but i think this is the only place i could ask this question. What i want to do is basically have cable internet in another room that is quite far away but under the same roof. I know i could go wireless and install a airport extreme card into my mac but i sorta can't afford that and the air tunes wireless thingy.

What i was thinking about doing was buying a extra extra extra long ethernet cable because isnt those blue cables they use for networking ethernet or something (sorry i dont really know alot about this networking technical stuf) then buying 2 ethernet outlits that are like power points that go into the wall. And running the ethernet cable accross up in the roof and then down the wall into the room. 

Knowing my luck this probly cant be done and the blue cables they use for networking arent ethernet cables but yeah i hope so !! 

Also does anyone know where i could buy some long ethernet cables in Queensland, Australia.. I was thinking about computer stores like The disc Shop or Gamer dude ( or somewhere else ??)

Anyways thanks in advance !!!! 

smithy


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## bobw (Feb 25, 2005)

Sure can be done that way. 
Do a search for ethernet cables. You can find some pretty good prices in the US, probably over there also.


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## miker51 (Feb 25, 2005)

Very easy to do, when we built our house we had the ethernet built in so that the living room and all of the bedrooms had outlets.


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## Jeffo (Feb 25, 2005)

not only can it be done, but in my opinion that is a better way to do it for desktop computers.  there is a solid connection so you don't have to worry about someone else hacking into your wireless setup.  also if you get another computer you could have faster sharing between them over the cable(100mb/s for your emac) vs the airport (54mb/s for your emac).  you also would not have to worry about a neighbor having an interferring wireless network either.  it should save you quite a bit of money too.


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## Roland (Feb 25, 2005)

The limit for twisted-pair-ethernet cables is 100 meters. You can choose the color if you don't like the default grey - few extra bucks. 
If that is not enough to wrap your network around your house, you could as well afford some wireless toys.
SCNR


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## mdnky (Feb 25, 2005)

Buy bulk cable and hook the outlets up that way.  It'll save you $$$'s and it's not very hard to do.  Just make sure you keep the order of the wires correct on each outlet.

The hardest part is going to be getting the cable in the walls.  What kind of house (two story, ranch, etc.) is it?  Do you have access to the attic and basement (or crawl space)?

Another way to do it, just hide the cable along the baseboards.  I just did that for my cousin at his apartment.  We wound up buying a 50' pre-built cable from Radio Shack for $30 due to time constraints and sheer laziness.  It's hidden completely, just takes a bit of creativeness.


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## smithy (Feb 25, 2005)

Awesome thanks everyone, is these ethernet cables ? http://www.thediscshop.com.au/moreInfo.cgi?cat=NTC-CAB-RJ50M&page=network-cable
Well i hope they are !  or is that, that lan cable that plugs into your main board on a pc ?? 

The house is a 2 story house and the actual living area is all on one level, so basically it wont be that hard basically its accross the roof and down into another room.  I think i might end up putting more than only 2 outlits in the house. My idea was to put one right next to the cable outlit (we have 3, but only on one or maybe all three) and then drop it into another room via the roof. Basically getting it down the walls wont be hard, because my dad and i have both done wired stuff in the walls. 

I think 50m of cable should do, and will allow me to do more stuff for more expansion. Oh and also the other day i was at the bank and they had an industrial bin because they were renovating the building. It had heaps and heaps probly 100 metres of blue cable in there, i don't know whether it was networking cable and i didnt count how many wires was in there, but if thats the stuff i need im soooo going back ! 

Thanks again !


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## bobw (Feb 25, 2005)

That's what you need.


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## smithy (Feb 25, 2005)

Which one, the stuff in the industrial bin or the stuff that was on the site i gave a link too. 

haahah what a coincidence if the stuff in that bin is what i need !! thanks for the quick reply bobw


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## bobw (Feb 25, 2005)

The link has the correct cables, and from your description, the stuff in the bin may be the same. Check the cable ends and see if they look like what you see in the link you provided.


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## smithy (Feb 25, 2005)

Awesome thanks for that, i think  i might be going for a trip to the bin later !!!


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## bobw (Feb 25, 2005)

I've seen CAT5 cables as low as $4.00 for a 50ft length here.
Dealmac has deals, and cables show up there from time to time, for next to nothing.


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## Pengu (Feb 25, 2005)

Um. it may not be an issue for ya, but if you use Cat5E (as opposed to Cat5) you can go up to 320Meters in a single run. Not sure what the limit is for Cat6..


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## mdnky (Feb 26, 2005)

Go to your local Home Depot and you can pickup a 500' roll of CAT5 cable for $40.  They also have the required connectors (RJ45) should you need to make patch cables.  The crimpers can be bought for $8 to $10.  You can also get 'modularized' wall plates that'll allow you to use an existing phone jack location.  Most have two or three modules that are interchangeable for RJ45 (ethernet), RJ25 (telephone), cable/TV coax, etc.

RJ-25 (telephone) Module

RJ-45 (ethernet/lan) Module

2 Port Wall Plate

4 Port Wall Plate

You can find similar adapters and plates linked above at Home Depot; that's where I got mine; but they didn't have anything in their online shop.  



TigerDirect has a 500' roll for $55.  CAT5e costs around $120 for a 500' roll at TigerDirect.  Given what you described, you shouldn't have the need for CAT5e.


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## smithy (Feb 26, 2005)

Thanks mdnky, but now im confused.

If i get 2x2 Port wall plate, are the things that like you plug the ethernet cable into - come with it ? Are they called snap in couplers or something like that ?

I will only need 30m's of cable, and the pc geek shop down the road has 30metres for $30(aud). But really im confused about the wall plates, and basically if i get those wall plates what else do i need.

One more thing  - those blue network cables there exactly the same as ethernet hey ? So if i get  2x1m cables for like $3 each, will they plug into the ethernet port on my mac and pc ?

Thankyou sooo much everyone for your help once again ! I really really really apprieciate it !


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## smithy (Feb 26, 2005)

Oh sorry just one more thing !!!  

Ive attatched a quick plan i made and basically it shows you exactly what i want to do. But what i was wondering is, if the pc has windows xp since the mac and the pc will be connected on the same line does that meen it will allow file sharing. I know this is like basically a whole new thread and if i want an answer to it i should just go look around this section of the forum, but will it work like that ?

Even though i can just transfer files via the internet or usb but i was just wondering. As it is ive got 10gb of download to use up for the internet so i guess it doesnt really matter either way.

Thanks sooo much again everyone !


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## Pengu (Feb 26, 2005)

yes you can share files from XP to OSX.


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## smithy (Feb 26, 2005)

thanks pengu, i thought you could share files from xp to osx just  making sure !


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## Reality (Feb 26, 2005)

I have a question similar to this thread. I think having Ethernet ports in the home is really cool and saves a lot of trouble and unglues with wires all over the place but I wonder if anyone knows what the "next" Ethernet will be. What I mean is, what will be taking it's place in the up coming years? Is installing ports a to big of investment since something else might become the new standard in a few years?


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## smithy (Feb 26, 2005)

I guess if they bring out something new that will replace ethernet, they would have to have an adapter. As it is obviosly many high speed modems are ethernet and not usb, so there is a ethernet to usb adapter. So i dont think it will be such a big problem in a sense ...


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## mdnky (Feb 27, 2005)

smithy said:
			
		

> If i get 2x2 Port wall plate, are the things that like you plug the ethernet cable into - come with it ? Are they called snap in couplers or something like that?


The modules are what you 'pop' in to ports on the wall plates.



			
				smithy said:
			
		

> I will only need 30m's of cable, and the pc geek shop down the road has 30metres for $30(aud). But really im confused about the wall plates, and basically if i get those wall plates what else do i need.


Buy more than what you think you'll need...you'd be amazed at how quick it disappears.  

If you have an existing telephone jack somewhere in the room that's in a standard wall box, then you would need:

- Wire
- Wallplates
- Modules per wallplate [1 Telephone and 1 Ethernet (RJ45)]

If you don't have a standard wall box in the room, then you'll need to pickup one at a hardware type store for each room.  They make 'remodel' ones that are easy to install, you can also find surface mount models.


I never even looked to see if you were in the US, my bad.  Are your phone jacks the old #22AUST type or are they the RJ-11 type?  I'm not sure if they make a #22AUST module or not.  Converting to the RJ-11 shouldn't be too hard.

Wall Plates - http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Products/P4301.htm
Modules (RJ45) - http://www.accesscomms.com.au/products/P4511.htm
They didn't show any RJ-11 phone modules, but you can use the RJ-45 ones with the following reducers (6 position to 4 position) - http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Products/P2220.htm


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## mdnky (Feb 27, 2005)

Reality said:
			
		

> I have a question similar to this thread. I think having Ethernet ports in the home is really cool and saves a lot of trouble and unglues with wires all over the place but I wonder if anyone knows what the "next" Ethernet will be. What I mean is, what will be taking it's place in the up coming years? Is installing ports a to big of investment since something else might become the new standard in a few years?



I haven't heard anything about a replacement, doubt there will be one anytime soon.  Most people are still using 10/100 right now, even though 1000 has been out for a while.  Internet wise, it'll be a LONG time before you'd max out a 100Mb/s e-net connection, at least for "general use" (home, surfing, etc.).  Most DSL/Cable/BBOPL lines are running at 2Mb/s to 6Mb/s.  I've heard of up some places seeing 10MB/s to 15Mb/s.

You could always do fiber, but the costs (high) aren't really justified...especially in a home environment.

Hard-wiring a home with CAT5 can generally recoup the costs (which aren't much) at resale too.  CAT5 is also usable as standard telephone cabling.  Instead of 2 pair, you get 3 pair of wires.


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## smithy (Feb 27, 2005)

Thankyou sooo much mdnky, thats basically what i need ! However i dont have any need for a telephone line in both rooms nor do i have lines in both of them. 

One more thing, how does windows 98 and OSX go with networking ? Like if i connected a win98 pc with the ethernet that is connected to the mac, will the pc work as a network or something like that ? 

Hopefully it will work, otherwise i think i will literally chuck my possesed pc out the window ..


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## mdnky (Feb 27, 2005)

smithy said:
			
		

> how does windows 98 and OSX go with networking ? Like if i connected a win98 pc with the ethernet that is connected to the mac, will the pc work as a network or something like that ?
> 
> Hopefully it will work, otherwise i think i will literally chuck my possesed pc out the window ..



Start working out at the Gym regularly so you can chuck it farther <G>.  It'll feel really good and it's a definite stress reliever.  

My experience with 98 and Panther in a network for the most part isn't a happy or productive one.  I had to run to the hardware store and waste $25 on my handy dandy computer (PC) repair tool...a good old fashioned 16lb sledge hammer.  It felt REALLY, REALLY good to fix that <insert your profanity of choice here> Win98 box.  One of the best moments in my life; almost.  

That one was a pain from day one.  Everything we tried failed.  Another time I tried it with a different computer running Win98 it was easy to get going.  Just turned Windows File Sharing on in Panther and shared a folder in Win98.  Same username/pwds on both computers.  Everything worked fine for some unknown reason.

The only other option is to run Miramar's MacLan on the PC, but the cost is definitely not worth it.  You could buy a full version of XP Pro for that.  Almost a new computer, if you went bottom-dollar bargain basement on it.

This might help you:  http://joelshoemaker.com/computer/mac/m98fs.html


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## Pengu (Feb 27, 2005)

In regard to the "new network" thing. I thing Ethernet over copper wires is here to stay for a while. But if you want to future-proof your house, maybe wire it with Cat6..I don't think it's worth using Fibre inside a single small building, cus then you need either media converters at each point, or PCI/PCMCIA cards with fibre connections on them..


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## Captain Code (Feb 27, 2005)

I wouldn't use the cable you found in the garbage.  Chances are it's old and will only support 10Mbit and that's why it's being replaced.  

I ran Cat5 through my return air ducts to the basement and it was easy.  I don't think it's up to code having the wire in the ducts but oh well for me   

For futureproofing your best bet is Cat6 which is a higher grade cable and will let you run gigabit ethernet, 1000Mbps.  This is going to start becoming more popular in the home because gigabit switches are getting pretty cheap.  A few hundred dollars for an 8 port switch or something.  Not bad considering they were 1000 or so before.


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## chornbe (Feb 27, 2005)

Reality said:
			
		

> I have a question similar to this thread. I think having Ethernet ports in the home is really cool and saves a lot of trouble and unglues with wires all over the place but I wonder if anyone knows what the "next" Ethernet will be. What I mean is, what will be taking it's place in the up coming years? Is installing ports a to big of investment since something else might become the new standard in a few years?



I'm sure you'll see Wireless 108 take off in homes now that G and B have proven themselves nicely, and Gigabit become the standard in biz. WEP will become easier for the unwashed masses to administer as "PROTECT YOUR NUTS FROM IDENTITY THEFT" becomes more touted to the common folk. 

I'd also bet we're going to see WAY more use of secure bluetooth connections for printers, local "workstation" sharing and the like, becoming mainstream in short order.

My guess/$.02


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## chornbe (Feb 27, 2005)

Captain Code said:
			
		

> I ran Cat5 through my return air ducts to the basement and it was easy.  I don't think it's up to code having the wire in the ducts but oh well for me



Depends on if it's plenum rated or not. If it is, you're golden. If it isn't then the pitiful tiny amounts of toxic gasses being released from your 4 or 5 cables when your house burns down will pale in comparison to those being released from all the other polymers and synthetics used in your home. So, I wouldn't worry 'bout it.

Plenum rating is akin to closing the barn door after the nuke hits.

*shrugs*


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## Captain Code (Feb 27, 2005)

chornbe said:
			
		

> Depends on if it's plenum rated or not. If it is, you're golden. If it isn't then the pitiful tiny amounts of toxic gasses being released from your 4 or 5 cables when your house burns down will pale in comparison to those being released from all the other polymers and synthetics used in your home. So, I wouldn't worry 'bout it.
> 
> Plenum rating is akin to closing the barn door after the nuke hits.
> 
> *shrugs*




Yeah, it's not plenum rated, it's just regular Cat 5.  You're right, I'm sure the synthetic carpet would give off enough toxic fumes to kill me before the Cat 5 would.


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## Pengu (Feb 28, 2005)

Um. you don't need cat6 do do gigabit. cat5e does gigabit. but i agree, cat6 is the way to go.. just watch out, it's quite thick compared to 5/5e..


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## Captain Code (Feb 28, 2005)

Pengu said:
			
		

> Um. you don't need cat6 do do gigabit. cat5e does gigabit. but i agree, cat6 is the way to go.. just watch out, it's quite thick compared to 5/5e..



True, but Cat5e is half the bandwidth of Cat6, so you won't have as many problems if there is any interference and you can maybe go to 10Gbit in the future if they work out a standard that will allow this over copper.  Might as well put in the best stuff you can now instead of being limited in the future to *only* 1Gbit


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## Pengu (Feb 28, 2005)

Oh, i agree. i did actually suggest cat6 in the post above yours that suggests it. im simply pointing out that it does work over 5e (maybe short distances over 5?)


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## smithy (Mar 1, 2005)

Well im just going to get cat5 cable basically thats all i can afford. I know i should get more than what i think i will need, but yeah i might measure it out. I think i might just transfer files between the pc and mac via msn messenger or something. I doubt the networking will work with my possesed pc ...


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## chornbe (Mar 1, 2005)

If you're using wall jacks and such (rather than just running long patch cords - the wrong way to go), please remember that wiring scheme 568B is your friend. Not 568A. you'll get cleaner signals at the 100mb and up.


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## unixbigot (Mar 1, 2005)

Smithy, I gather you're not exactly an electronics expert.  

To save having to buy tools and mess about with wiring your own plugs, go
to Jaycar Electronics in Ipswich Rd Wooloongabba, (or jaycar.com.au) and buy two of their ethernet wall plates that have an RJ45 socket on both inside and outside (RJ45 is the type of socket used for Ethernet ports on computers, and also on the wall plates).   

This means you can use a normal pre-made ethernet patch cable in the walls, instead of wiring your own connectors.  

It's a little bit more expensive than using bare cable and the traditional connectors that have telephone-style punch-down connections, but a heck of a lot easier for those unfamiliar with data cabling, and lacking the specialist tools required.  Besides, if you want raw cable you often have to buy a 300m drum.    

If you do decide to wire it yourself with bulk cable, go to an electrical wiring   wholesaler (yellow pages), not a computer store, as parts will be much cheaper.


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## smithy (Mar 1, 2005)

Ah thanks for that unixbigot ... welcome to the forum as well ! 

I have heard of jaycar before and there only at the gabba not that far away. I think we might just go see them and basically tell them what we need to do and yeah they can show us exactly what we need. Hopefully they dont rip me off though !!


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