# Windows programs on tiger?



## aych (Aug 14, 2005)

i've heard a rumor that the new tiger has some kind of api that will allow mac users to run 32bit windows programs on tiger? can anyone clarify that and verify if it is true or not?

thanks


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## symphonix (Aug 14, 2005)

I don't know where you heard this, but it certainly isn't true.

If you want to run Win32 applications, you'll need to use Virtual PC. Technically skilled users might also try out Wine or Bochs, but these require a fair bit of know-how to setup.


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## aych (Aug 14, 2005)

i've used wine on linux is virtual pc free?


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## MisterMe (Aug 14, 2005)

Virtual PC is a commercial product that is now owned and sold by Microsoft. You may buy it as a standalone app or as part of the Office 2004 bundle.


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## Veljo (Aug 14, 2005)

Virtual PC is crap.


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## RGrphc2 (Aug 14, 2005)

Veljo said:
			
		

> Virtual PC is crap.



It won't be if Apple buys it from Microsoft after the x86 transition


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## aych (Aug 14, 2005)

so no other way eh? cuz i heard it was built into tiger or something..


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## nixgeek (Aug 14, 2005)

There is something called DarWINE, which means to put WINE natively on Mac OS X.

http://darwine.opendarwin.org//


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## kainjow (Aug 15, 2005)

Mmm Wine + x86 Macs =


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## Reality (Aug 15, 2005)

I think a feature like this would rule. Even if you have to kinda hack it. Once I can run MSN 7, Windows Yahoo, ect on there I'm in.


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## Viro (Aug 15, 2005)

This would be quite a good feature. Much better than having to dual boot Windows just for a few apps.


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## fryke (Aug 15, 2005)

http://haligon.blogspot.com/2005/08/crossover-plugin-etc-and-intel-macs.html - CrossOver Plugin will run on X86 Macs and basically do this. But not on PPC Macs, where VPC and GuestPC are currently the solutions.


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## Pengu (Aug 15, 2005)

> Once I can run MSN 7, Windows Yahoo, ect on there I'm in



and there i was thinking it was high-end games and specialised business apps keeping people in windows-land.


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## Viro (Aug 15, 2005)

MSN and Yahoo are quite 'specialized' given that they support video conferencing on Windows but not on the Mac. If you wanted to video conference with friends who have an MSN account, you're basically screwed on the Mac.

Though I agree there are more important applications (usually custom made apps for businesses), MSN and Yahoo aren't something to sniff at.


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## fryke (Aug 15, 2005)

Yes, the real world sometimes kills a lot of illusions...


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## Pengu (Aug 15, 2005)

sorry, i forgot that some people still use "services" like msn and yahoo.


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## AdmiralAK (Aug 15, 2005)

VPC is slow - I have been using it since version 3.0 though to get my windows work done (too bad it's too slow for games). Once the transition is complete though if apple buys it (or creates a better version) - it will be freakin' awesome! No need to reboot to play in the windows environment, run non-mac stuff at full speed WHILE running mac stuff on the mac side - ahhhhh geek heaven


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## fryke (Aug 15, 2005)

I don't know why people think Microsoft would sell VPC to Apple. Microsoft is quite successful with VPC both for the Mac and for Windows (you can use VPC on Windows to "emulate" other versions of Windows or linux etc.). The question is how good MS will make VPC on the Mac once Macs use intel processors.


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## Perseus (Aug 15, 2005)

Why wait for this conversion? Just get a PC for your PC needs...they really don't cost that much. You'll get the speed you need, and any other specs you may drool over. I am getting one for games and other stuff, alongside my Mac. I think it is a good way to go.


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## texanpenguin (Aug 15, 2005)

Perseus - convenience (particularly on the road) springs to mind.


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## fryke (Aug 15, 2005)

Yep. There was a time when much of my work was creating and testing websites. Having VPC around was more than enough for testing websites in IE for Windows. Buying an extra PC for the task would've been, well, ridiculous. VPC (and similar products) do their task quite well, and they've found their niche.


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## aych (Aug 15, 2005)

hmm.. guestpc or vpc they both costs money eh? so wine is the only one that is free?  now i really have to reconsider. does anyone know if cakewalk pro audio 9 can be wined vpc'd or gpc'd?


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## MisterMe (Aug 15, 2005)

Bochs is free. So too is QEMU. WINE is not an emulator. WINE is a clone of the Windows APIs and libraries which allow Windows apps to run on other Intel-based OSes such as Linux. DarWINE/PPC uses QEMU to emulate the x86.


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## Viro (Aug 15, 2005)

Bochs is really not an option. Seriously, the speed is way slower than VPC, which is in turn way slower than a decent PC. 

When Macs move to Intel, Wine suddenly becomes a much more viable alternative. Allowing you to run Windows apps without the need for an emulator.


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## Perseus (Aug 15, 2005)

Maybe you did not read the part where I said: games. Thats why I suggested a seperate PC, because someone earlier mentioned games ran horrible on VPC. That's all. Otherwise, VPC is quite convenient, I agree. (And I have used it!).


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## Reality (Aug 15, 2005)

Viro said:
			
		

> MSN and Yahoo are quite 'specialized' given that they support video conferencing on Windows but not on the Mac. If you wanted to video conference with friends who have an MSN account, you're basically screwed on the Mac.
> 
> Though I agree there are more important applications (usually custom made apps for businesses), MSN and Yahoo aren't something to sniff at.



Your "screwed" to video conference with anyone with a PC all together besides maybe using Yahoo but thats what bugs me. I'll be honest that yeah, there is more important stuff business and consumer wise that should be looked at, but what about my digital life style? Obviously as a computer user, thats something thats important to me for my entertainment, and the chat options we have for the Mac are simply ridiculous. Your need about 3 different chat programs to do what a single chat program can on Windows. 

That there just aggravates me because I want to call my friends for example (On their computer, its free after all), but he'll have to download Skype and make a account all before we can. Not fun for him. Especially when he can/does use MSN, AIM, Yahoo, ect already do that with his "PC" friends. Downloading Skype just to talk to me is a irritation simply because I have a Mac. That there also sets a bad rap on the Mac platform. They all know how good of a computer it is, but because it can't do something as simple as what their programs can, they wouldn't ever get one. I just want to see the Mac get up to date with this type of stuff already. We are being put behind by 5 years or more almost.


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## aych (Aug 15, 2005)

hmm.. but with vpc. can i use msn? how about recording software such as cakewalk and sony soundforge. or anything like that?


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## Quicksilver (Aug 15, 2005)

I don't know why but i have this feeling that there is somthing really big coming.

I mean that you could run w32 apps on an apple probably natively with this rumord project apple hase been working on over the last few years, a mac os x version running on x86. And then the announcement of intel based macs.

I believe that windows app may run through mac os x but look like mac os x applications this will open the doors to games, and give major developers like macromedia, adobe, etc the ability to develop just one version instead of two, win and mac versions. somthing may also be licenced to apple from MS, a windows thing mabey??

Yes your computer will boot in mac osx and also boot a windows version in the background but have the ability to run the windows app through the OS X GUI, services, preferences, installations etc.

That would be so ultimate! and very, very cool for many people. Especially the new switch interested consumer.


.


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## aych (Aug 15, 2005)

i dont think i got any of what u just said..

so can i just run .exe files rite now in tiger?


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## kainjow (Aug 16, 2005)

No, you cannot run exe's in Tiger, or in any OS X version, whether it's running on a PowerPC or x86 processor. You can emulate Windows apps using a program such as Virtual PC, but it's slow, and only useful for extremely basic tasks. I think this whole topic should be deleted... why would Apple ever support running Windows software on their hardware? That's like Palm going out of their way to make PocketPC programs work on their PDA's....


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## Viro (Aug 16, 2005)

Perseus said:
			
		

> Maybe you did not read the part where I said: games. Thats why I suggested a seperate PC, because someone earlier mentioned games ran horrible on VPC. That's all. Otherwise, VPC is quite convenient, I agree. (And I have used it!).



Was replying to MisterMe's post, directly above my previous post


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## Myke (Aug 16, 2005)

Aych, there are loads of quality audio apps for the Mac ...ProTools (cross platform) is probably the best but there are literally dozens of other including the free Audacity which is good for basic tasks.

I also use Cool Edit Pro which is PC only, via Virtual PC. It has a fabulous set of filters, which is all I need it for. It works fine for cleaning audio but I wouldn't want (or need) to mix with it.

I know you probably don't want to learn a whole new program - but most of these apps work in very similar ways.


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## Quicksilver (Aug 16, 2005)

Aych, seriously apple is a really good platform. If this post is about making a decision or your looking for a reason to purchase a mac in future, you seem like a creative person by being interested in making music, etc. Have you really had a play around with one yet? have you seen or used GarageBand? Thats only the beginning...

See this: http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/ 

i hope this helps you.




			
				kainjow said:
			
		

> why would Apple ever support running Windows software on their hardware? That's like Palm going out of their way to make PocketPC programs work on their PDA's....




I believe that if this was to be done that it would give the consumer more of a reason to purchase a mac (hardware). The consumer would have the ability to freely run applications on one computer seemlessly without hassle. This issue has been one of the biggest arguments and major factors why consumers don't or wont purchase a mac in the first place (lack of software). However if that was taken out of the equation, then there would be more reason to purchase and no real reason not to.

In effect a windows platform machine has more choice, more games, more software, Apple has far better graphics apps, music editing/creating software and personal digital lifestyle products such as iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, etc and is the choice for the creative and people that want the "cool" factor in a computer. but untill the above has been successfully accomplished that real juicy market wont or may not buy.

i understand your point with Palm & Pocket PC but that is an entirely different market and ball game in comparison to the cross compatability of applications/services between two computer desktop/laptop operating systems.

Acctually when you think about it, really, the iPod is doing it. And doing it very well.


.


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## mambopanda (Aug 16, 2005)

Reality said:
			
		

> I just want to see the Mac get up to date with this type of stuff already. We are being put behind by 5 years or more almost.



The "MAC" is not the problem here. Clearly mac supports video and voip technologies quite well. There is nothing a Windows computer can do that a Mac can't. NOTHING. Unfortunately, Microsoft and their buddies over at Yahoo! put Mac development on the back burner, and decide not to develop the Mac versions of their products at the same rate as thier Windows versions. This is not an instance of Mac needing to get up to date, it's an issue of these developers getting with it and putting some time into getting an up to date Mac version.

As far as the whole windows software running on a Mac is concerned, I hope to god they don't. This would stiffle mac developers in a HUGE way, and put tons and tons of crappy low quality apps in competition with the elegant and thoughtfully designed Mac products. Not to mention I switched to Mac to get away from all the poorly written Microsoft apps that continuously crash and have to be updated every day just to fill security holes. I certainly wont stick around if this becomes the case on Mac. 

Oh... and let's not forget... the Mac is pretty safe from viruses right now. Windows compatibility would mean Windows VULNERABILITY too. Yuck. Find a Mac app that does what you want. Chances are it will run better, and crash less, and probably be easier to use anyway.


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## fryke (Aug 16, 2005)

Yes, but you see that IS the problem. No software for the Mac supports audio/video chats with MSN and Yahoo! users, AFAIK. And of course that's not Apple's fault, nor the Mac's - but for users who're using those services actively, it's a reason not to switch to the Mac, quite simply.


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## aych (Aug 16, 2005)

hmm.. good point. garageband seems quite appealing. ahh.. i forgot.. i have a sony clie. it never came with software for mac. heh.. any help? peg-tg50/U
heh.. first time i've been stumped this bad.. i'v ebeen using macs since the little black and white macs came out. just never owned one!


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## fryke (Aug 16, 2005)

I had a similar Sony Clié (actually still have it, a TH-55), and it only worked fine with some third party software... :/ (www.markspace.com's Missing Sync)... But you _should_ be able to simply try Palm Desktop for the Mac: http://www.palm.com/us/support/macintosh/macdesk421.html


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## kainjow (Aug 16, 2005)

aych: see http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos.php


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## mambopanda (Aug 16, 2005)

Missing Sync works great. I have used it with Sony Clie, iPaq, and some other devices. I never tried PalmDesktop with a Clie, but I did use it with a Palm and it was really terrible software, compared to MissingSync.


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## Reality (Aug 16, 2005)

mambopanda said:
			
		

> The "MAC" is not the problem here. Clearly mac supports video and voip technologies quite well. There is nothing a Windows computer can do that a Mac can't. NOTHING. Unfortunately, Microsoft and their buddies over at Yahoo! put Mac development on the back burner, and decide not to develop the Mac versions of their products at the same rate as thier Windows versions. This is not an instance of Mac needing to get up to date, it's an issue of these developers getting with it and putting some time into getting an up to date Mac version.



I understand that, and I see it that way too. When I say "Mac" I'm usually talking about the platform. So when I say it needs to get updated with something, I'm pretty much saying that developers need to start getting up to date with the Mac platform. Stop treating it like its Windows 95. 

Sadly, not everyone looks at it like that. For example, I had more people tell me to get a "real computer" simply because they think those are PCs.   In their eyes, when I the Mac user, can not do something like video/voice ect chat like they can its because I don't have a "real computer".  Its not that my computer can't, iChat alone does it better then MSN (for whatever thats worth), but to them its simple because I have a Mac. This would go in line to what fryke was talking about. Since the Mac wont do this because of lazy developers (Maybe even lazy Apple?) people will see it as a more lacking and less advance computer and would never give it a the far chance it deserves. But this is all on the side comments.  Point be, we are being given the shaft at thats why I think running something like MSN 7 or Yahoo WIndows on my computer be pretty cool.


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## aych (Aug 16, 2005)

haha quite nice 
ps. i ordered one!
ibook g4 1gb ram 80gb hd combo drive 12inch


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## Quicksilver (Aug 18, 2005)

Enjoy.


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## aych (Aug 23, 2005)

uh oh.. lol.. maxed out credit limit >< stupid visa.. lol. 1 gb ram.. 60 hd.. lol hada downgrade.. does anyone know if starcraft work with virtual pc? anyone use linux wit mac os x as well?


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## philbert (Aug 23, 2005)

I've got Virtual PC installed on a G3 iMac, and it is indeed slow, but useful for a quick check of a web page.  That's about it really.

I'm wondering how much faster the latest version of VPC would run on my new G5 iMac.   

Anybody made that transition and care to comment?


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## Viro (Aug 24, 2005)

aych said:
			
		

> uh oh.. lol.. maxed out credit limit >< stupid visa.. lol. 1 gb ram.. 60 hd.. lol hada downgrade.. does anyone know if starcraft work with virtual pc? anyone use linux wit mac os x as well?



Starcraft comes with a Mac installer on the CD. You may need to download the Mac OS X installer, but you shouldn't need to use VPC to play Starcraft.


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## fryke (Aug 25, 2005)

and: VPC and games are basically no-go. You'd be very disappointed by performance, if you even tried... Well: Solitaire runs okay, I guess...


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## Cat (Aug 25, 2005)

IIRC you can run Window's solitarie and minesweeper under Darwine ...


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## jonparadise (Aug 29, 2005)

I've often thought Apple should release iChat for Windows, that'd grab in a few more cross platform users, and expand the user base too.


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## fryke (Aug 29, 2005)

But that's something entirely different from the thread's subject...


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## jonparadise (Aug 29, 2005)

Yup, but a fair bit of the previous posts were about Messenger services.


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