# Is My MacBook Pro Sick?



## bowjest (Oct 21, 2008)

Hello to all,

I've bought a new MacBook Pro in the last couple of weeks and have started to notice that sometimes when it boots, it has these lines that appear like heat lines or something coming up from the bottom of the screen.

They're wider at the bottom and then taper up until they reach the top of the screen. They're like what you seen when you turn on the heat to thaw out your windscreen on a cold morning (you know, when the frost starts to clear and you have these lines of cleared, thawed windscreen like stripes going up through the frosty bits).

If they ever appear, they stay there until I reboot and then they're gone.

I'm going to try to make the time to go to the Apple store where I bought it next week, but am feeling a bit sick that I've spent £1300 on a defective laptop.

Has anyone else ever had this problem?

Thanks,

Bowjest


----------



## SGilbert (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, defective GPU (graphics card).  Take it back to the apple store for replacement or repair.  It is a known problem.


----------



## bowjest (Oct 21, 2008)

Thanks, SGilbert.

That really sux. I hope they'll be willing to just swap and transfer my data. I can't really afford to be without it.

Thanks for the swift reply. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Bowjest


----------



## umang7888 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yeh... please do let us know on what happens in terms of whether they just swap your laptop with a new one or do they keep it for a while? If they do, then for how long do they keep it?
Cheers.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 21, 2008)

Any time you leave your computer for a repair, even if the repair is not hard drive related, more than likely your hard drive will be wiped clean -- it is up to you to take the necessary steps to back up your data before you drop your computer off.

The reason for this is that the Apple techs must ensure that any problems or perceived problems with the computer are not caused by some piece of software that the user loaded.  The only way to be sure of this is to do two things:

1) Be aware of and experienced with every, single piece of software that is compatible with the version of Mac OS X on the machine that the user may have loaded.  That's tens of thousands of pieces of software.
2) Wipe the hard drive and put a fresh, clean install of Mac OS X on there.

Obviously, number two is the only cost- and time-effective route.

So, in the end, you should back up your whole hard drive before sending the computer on its way to the service center, as there's no telling whether they'll wipe the drive or not.  Unless the person you drop the computer off with is also the tech that will be physically working on your computer, their word cannot be trusted, either -- so if the sales rep or register employee tells you they won't wipe the hard drive, do not believe them.  Just be safe and back up.


----------



## bowjest (Oct 22, 2008)

I'll be sure to let you all know what happens and what work is done.

ElDiabloConCaca, you've just made me more than a little nervous.

Do you mean that if they can't replicate my issue after I drop off my laptop they will just give it back to me and say, "Sorry, nothing wrong with it"? as it sounds like you're saying they will try to replicate the problem and if they can't, they won't acknowledge that there is a problem.

Hell, I can't get it to produce the dark lines I described every time I boot it. Some days it does it, other days it doesn't. For example, it didn't produce the lines when I started it a few minutes ago.

There are several online articles stating that Apple has acknowledged an issue with the the NVIDIA cards in exactly this model of MBP. I was hoping that this would have been more than enough to get this sorted out without a lot of fuss.

As a Mac man, is there anything you can suggest that I can do to make sure this is dealt with correctly and that I either get the graphics card replaced (can you do that with these?) or that I get a new, replacement laptop of the same spec, but without the defective graphics card?

Any advice here would be appreciated as I've spent a fortune on this laptop (which I love to death!) and don't want to end up regretting this purchase.

Thanks,

Bowjest


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 22, 2008)

bowjest said:


> Do you mean that if they can't replicate my issue after I drop off my laptop they will just give it back to me and say, "Sorry, nothing wrong with it"? as it sounds like you're saying they will try to replicate the problem and if they can't, they won't acknowledge that there is a problem.


Yup.  Why would they replace seemingly perfectly good parts for no reason?  Any repair place would and should operate under the same general guidelines -- while they may have a ton of money because they're a big corporation, it still makes no sense to replace parts that, under testing, seem to be operating normally.

You can instruct the person who takes your laptop that the issue occurs sporadically, and your computer may need to be powered on for quite a while before the problem appears.  The techs can then try and replicate as many factors as possible that occur with you when the problem appears -- it's not like they're going to boot it up, see the login screen, shut it, and say, "Done!  Looks fine to me!"

If you truly have this problem (and no one here doubts that you do, but someone else has to see it actually happen [preferably a tech] in order to fix it), then Apple techs will see it and fix it.



> Hell, I can't get it to produce the dark lines I described every time I boot it. Some days it does it, other days it doesn't. For example, it didn't produce the lines when I started it a few minutes ago.


I would suggest explaining this verbatim to the person writing out the tech ticket.  Pictures or a video of the actual problem would seal the deal.



> There are several online articles stating that Apple has acknowledged an issue with the the NVIDIA cards in exactly this model of MBP. I was hoping that this would have been more than enough to get this sorted out without a lot of fuss.


Also mention this.  Bring documentation (printout of Apple's website page acknowledging the NVidia problems).  Don't assume the tech knows every single recall, problem report, or hardware fault that Apple's owned up to.  Most don't.



> As a Mac man, is there anything you can suggest that I can do to make sure this is dealt with correctly and that I either get the graphics card replaced (can you do that with these?) or that I get a new, replacement laptop of the same spec, but without the defective graphics card?


Apple has the power, and they wield it quite a bit if you're persistent and polite (but persistent!), to replace the entire computer if it's not feasible to fix.  I assume that your laptop is still under warranty, and as such, you can visit any Apple store (be sure to call or make an appointment online, otherwise, during busy times, you WILL wait for quite a while), and they'll take care of everything for you.  Visit an Apple store that you feel comfortable going back to in order to pick up the laptop when it's fixed -- don't expect Apple to ship it back to you or send it to another store for you to pick up.  Drop it off where you want to pick it up.  Bring documentation, receipts, proof of problem, warranty info -- act like you're preparing for court and going on trial to defend the fact that your MBP has a problem.  Don't expect Apple to do the research for you -- do the research yourself, get your documentation and papers and receipts in order, and explain everything to the tech in a straightforward and organized fashion.

Other than that, I think it will be a smooth process.  If, in fact, it's hardware related, and if, in fact, it's still under warranty, then it should be as simple as taking the laptop in to the Apple store at your pre-approved appointment time, handing it over, then coming back to the store for pick-up when they call you.

And be sure to back up anything you want to keep before dropping it off.


----------



## bowjest (Oct 22, 2008)

Diablo,

Thanks for all the pointers and advice.

I'm very concerned, though, that if by some fluke it just doesn't display the problem while it's in their hands, they'll give it back and the next day I'll boot it and be back where I started.

I'll make sure I have all the paperwork together before I drop it off and hopefully it'll happen again before Tuesday (when I'm hoping to take it to the store where I bought it) and I can take a good digital picture of the problem.

But I still would have thought that if I can show proof that Apple has acknowledged this problem that they would at the very least replace the defective part (but I know nothing about Mac internals, so don't know if that can be done).

Here is Apple's acknowledgement:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

I'll keep you all posted on what happens.

Wish me luck!

PS - I'll be backing up all our data on Saturday.


----------



## bowjest (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks, Diablo, I'll make sure our data is completely backed up before I go to the Apple Store where I bought our MBP.

I'm also hoping that the fact that the screen does not fit down snugly against the body/keyboard will convince them that something is wrong (I can shut the laptop and still fit 2 pieces of standard copier paper folded twice between the closed screen and the keyboard).

Surely that can't be right.


----------



## VirtualTracy (Oct 24, 2008)

bowjest, if at all possible, take the MacBook Pro back to the place of purchase ... or at least give them a call and talk to the tech person and tell him/her that the MacBook they sold you has developed a problem.  

While it's true that Apple tell you you can take your product to any Apple Store or Licenced Reseller/Repairer and have your Macs warranty honoured, I just think it's better to deal with the people who physically took your money.

EDIT

Oops, I just saw in your last post that you are taking it back to the place of purchase ....


----------



## bowjest (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks, VirtualTracy, I'm hopefully going to get it checked out on Tuesday.

Fingers crossed!

Bowjest


----------



## bowjest (Oct 28, 2008)

Ok gang, here's the skinny....

Just got back from the Apple Store where I bought my MBP and here's what was done:

1. Turned up and explained the problems I've been having and one of the guys said he had a special diagnostic test he could run to see if the NVIDIA card was shafted.

He plugged in an external USB HDD and rebooted and the test began on its own. Took a few minutes to run (during which all manner of shapes and colors flashed on the screen) and when it completed it said that the graphics card was fine. Super!

2. A colleague of the guy who was helping me said he knew the problem with the dark lines appearing (several reboots actually reproduced the issue even though I haven't had it once in the last week!) and said it was fixed with a system update (I was on 10.5.2 and he said the fix was in 10.5.3 - we upgraded to 10.5.5).

The next round of reboots produced no lines! Whoo Hoo! 

They just asked that I monitor things for a while and if I have any problems to let them know.

In short, 10 out of 10 for service, helpfulness, and professionalism. Outstanding and all done in about 40 minutes.

My Apple experience just keeps getting better and better.

Cheers,

Bowjest


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Oct 28, 2008)

Awesome!  Congrats!


----------



## bowjest (Nov 1, 2008)

BAD NEWS!

Just rebooted my MBP and the lines are back. Seems that system update wasn't the answer.

Not happy. Am going to have to find time to go back and have this looked at again. Maybe they'll give me a new laptop. Maybe I'm hoping just a bit.



I'll give you all an update after I've been back to the Apple store.

Oh, BTW - What is the default desktop icon size? I was draining down the battery to recalibrate it and suddenly the desktop freaked out and now the icons are the size of the head of a pin.


----------



## artov (Nov 6, 2008)

I turned up my MBP Tuesday and the screen was totally blank. I tried the normal stuff: removed the battery, cleared the parameter RAM; nothing. I phoned the store and they adviced me to phone Apple. They guy at Apple gave me another trick: remove the power cord, battery and press the power button for 20 seconds. That did not help, so they gave we a case number and I took the machine to the store. I received it today, and they told that the problem was with the NVIDIA card. They had to replace the motherboard.

But, before the blank I had had no lines or anything; just the machine went quite hot every now and then; mainly when playing or watching videos.


----------



## artov (Nov 7, 2008)

I found one problem: we have two wlans on the company I work: one for the workers and another for the quests. The worker wlan needs the MAC address plus password, the quest wlan needs only password. For both wlans, the MBP lost its connection (normally, it used which ever of the wlans was free). I gave the password, but DHCP did not gave me any address. Or it gave some, but it was not 198.168.0.x that it normally gives, but something 198.168.18.x. I tried to release DHCP, but finally lost the 198.168.18.x and now get totally funny addresses.

But, on home, the wlan (Apple Airport Extreme) works fine. So, where is the difference (other than security: Airport uses WPA2 Personal and the ones used at work are WPA Personal)?


----------



## bowjest (Nov 8, 2008)

Well, I went back to the Apple store today and they are ordering some parts and will work on it next weekend.

I hope that replacing a couple of things (looks like they may be going for the motherboard and screen) will fix the problem.

Have to say it's soured my Mac experience somewhat. I've owned a variety of PCs over the years and never had any hardware/video problems with any of them.

Oh, well. Hopefully that will be the end of it.


----------



## bowjest (Nov 21, 2008)

Just got a call from my local Apple store and they say that the work to be done is too substantial to justify carrying it out unless I'm just married to the MacBook Pro I've bought.

They've offered to give me the new model (with the black screen trim and black keyboard) as opposed to my model (with the anti-glare screen, silver keyboard, and click shut screen catch).

Can anyone give me feedback on the new model? Is it better or no different than the one I bought? I'm a bit disappointed that they have no anti-glare screens in the new model.

Thanks,

Bowjest


----------



## Doctor X (Nov 21, 2008)

Can you post the specs of the new one?  To compare to the old one?  You may want to get *Mactracker* to compare the benchmarks.

--J.D.


----------



## Doctor X (Nov 21, 2008)

Checking through the thread, I do not see where you posted the "specs" of your broken one to compare with the one they are offering.

--J.D.


----------



## bowjest (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi, J.D.

Specs should be pretty much the same as my current MacBook Pro:

2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM

I notice on the specs page that they list the most comparable model to mine as having a 250GB rather than the 200GB HDD that mine has.

I'm not really sure what the exact specs are as I'll have to go in tomorrow morning and have a long talk with them about things, but I'd like to think that I'll have at least the above, but maybe even a couple of improvements.

I also noticed that the battery life is supposed to be 5 hours instead of the 4 hours my model has, so that's a bonus!


----------



## SGilbert (Nov 21, 2008)

IMHO: Give them a big kiss on the cheek (face, that is) and leave with your new MBP delighted to have a new one.


----------



## Doctor X (Nov 21, 2008)

Though you have essentially obtained my MacBook with less memory . . . no "pro."  Do not know if that matters or not.

--J.D.


----------



## bowjest (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok, I've got my new MBP (a replacement for the one I bought that was faulty).

One problem: this new, all singing, all dancing trackpad mouse will just stop at random moments and stop responding. Am also finding that now that the trackpad and button are an all-in-one, when I try to copy folders/directories by pressing ctrl+button I get no menu of options (move to trash, copy, etc.). Even if I move focus to something else and come back, the little options menu never appears. I have to close Finder and re-open it to get this copy function to work.

What gives? Is there some trick to this new trackpad or have I been given yet another dud?


----------



## bowjest (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh, and one other thing....

Why is it that whenever I zip my finger across the trackpad so that all open windows are displayed so I can choose which one I want to give focus to, there is a very small little window called "Invisible" that appears down at the bottom right of the screen?

I never had that with my last Mac.


----------



## SGilbert (Nov 22, 2008)

Congrats!  

Apple just this week issued a trackpad solution (update)  Go to Software Update and update your new MBP.

You might have had this before, but even if you didn't, download FinderPop; it gives you tone of options when you hold the 'control' key down.


----------



## bowjest (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi, SGilbert,

Thanks for both tips. I'll download the update (and FinderPop) and see what I get. Hopefully this will fix things.

One other point, however: why is it that when I choose to save a file from a program (Audacity, for instance), I am not given the option to save it explicitly where I want to save it. Instead, I'm only present with the option to save in a general location (home directory, desktop, or a recently accessed folder).

It's very tedious saving to where I don't want to save and then moving the data after the fact.

Thanks


----------



## Doctor X (Nov 23, 2008)

Did you . . . click the arrows?

-J.D.


----------



## bowjest (Nov 23, 2008)

J. D.,

When I go to save/export the file I have three options (with drop down arrows):

Save as:
where:
format:

When I click on "where:", I only get the aforementioned options: my home directory, Applications, etc. or one of 4-5 previously accessed directories.


----------



## Doctor X (Nov 23, 2008)

When you click on Home Directory, for example, you should be able to go anywhere within the directory.  Can you post a picture?

--J.D.


----------



## ElDiabloConCaca (Nov 23, 2008)

Can you post a screenshot?

I've attached a screenshot with annotations of a "Save As..." dialog box.  The links on the left-hand side are shortcuts to common places.  The pull-down menu at the top allows you to navigate your current hard drive folder path.  You can then navigate using the middle pane by double-clicking (or single-clicking if you're in column view) just like you would on your hard drive.

If you wanted to save to a folder in your home folder, you could pull the drop-down menu down to your hard drive, navigate by double-clicking in the middle pane to /Users/yourusername/yourfolder, then click "Save."

Is this not what you're seeing?


----------

