# Really want to run these graphic programs/applications- Help Please



## Glendalough (Apr 25, 2005)

Perhaps someone with a bit of time to spare could point me in the right direction, and not over a cliff.......(seem to be going that way)........

Have been hoping to try and run some of these Unix graphics programs out there........See the thing as perhaps 3 basic solutions, please correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am!

1. Can try and run these applications direct from the terminal on my OSX (Can't be done, Maybe? -Can?) But would this involve so many command lines that a Novice would find it impracticable, or have to undertake detaching things from the root or whatever, and dangerously setting OSX adrift,  risk really messing up....

2. Attempting to run Linux, start it up on a partitioned drive......Is this a Big Deal? Is it possible to just take an empty portion of the drive and partition it or does one have to reinstall OSX in some fashion........(I suppose you can see this guy really doesn't know +all)

3. Go the Emulator way......Would this Fink program do it? Are there others out there better or more simple? What is this MkLinux...If the program is anything like the dancing penguin on the home page, it's got to be good (http://www.mklinux.org). Or am I totally lost and Fink and MkLinux aren't really emulators at all?

The idea is I just really want to run these graphic programs/applications and compare them to the OSX ones I'm using every day. Think it important to be aware of all the graphic stuff out there............As for everything else want to stay with Mac OSX as it works.........as long as I can get the images, animations out of the Unix environment and back into OSX in some form.

Have read interesting account of running Linux on the powerbook here, but think it more of an Adventure one can be happy to have come out of alive, -screen not dimming or going to sleep, system maybe not really under control, could damage. Think -in the past- may have burnt out the logic board (twice) on Wall Street laptop by excessive and long 3D renderings.....

And last Question. Is any of this going to work in a practical way (on a Macintosh, person with limited intelligence, etc.) Have read here also about having to click twice to get tools to work, programs crashing in mid air for no real reason........

I would be much obliged if anyone has any expert advice aside from giving up.


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## Viro (Apr 26, 2005)

What graphics programs are you intending to run? Fink isn't an emulator. It is basically a program that manages the installation of various Unix open sourced applications by _*automatically*_ downloading the source code, dependencies, and compiling and installing them. 

I'm guessing you are trying to run Gimp? If yes, Fink has it. If it is a proprietary application, I think you may be in trouble. Most proprietary Linux applications are released for x86. Macs run Power PC and hence these proprietary binaries are not compatible.


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## chornbe (Apr 26, 2005)

In addition, in order to run any *NiX (graphical) apps you have to have Apple's X11 implementation running. If memory serves, I had to download that separately and it was an easy install.

I'd look around for Apple equivalent software packages, tho', if I were you. Apple does a nice job of insulating you from the Unix within if you're not ready for it or simply don't want to deal with it, but you have to stick to native OSX/OS9 apps to gain that benefit.


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## Glendalough (Apr 26, 2005)

Thank you both very much for you replies.

The programs I was hoping to run are listed on the Fink "Archive Section Graphics" pages, under  " Packages" (http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/section.php/graphics).

I have nothing in particular in mind but thought many looked worth investigating. Yes, Gimp.   There's an Mpeg1 encoder. Something called  kpovmodeler (KDE - 3D modeler and compose), and many of the vector programs (packages)  look interesting. I thought none of these were proprietary but maybe am completely wrong about this..........if so that is the end of this scheme.......

At the moment I am working in Lightwave 3D, Adobe and Macromedia stuff. I realize these are very user friendly and some, After Effects and Lightwave anyway, developed to a high standard.

Recently bought Adobe Acrobat (in order to be able to embed fonts) and find the documentation revolting. Templates and instant solutions ad nauseam......really think it sad such a great thing (Adobe) can fall so low...

Maya is just too expensive at 5000 and don't know if this even includes a proper renderer......

So this is where these Unix type programs come in, more with an eye to the future. ....Learn a bit about the Unix world but not to be plunged in the deep end. So the idea, probably a bit naive, would be to start investigating these graphics.....to be well prepared for the soon coming Cookie Cutter days of Adobe and others, consumer software or something........not trying to start a revolution....just want to be prepared......Any Help Please and Thanks Again for answers.


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## lilbandit (Apr 27, 2005)

A Wicklow man eh?


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## Glendalough (Apr 27, 2005)

OH Dear, I'm being detected..........a Minnesota Man am fada (long time) in Wicklow.......born on 13th nov also.....

Anyway, to get on with my silly problem, I've decided to go the Fink way but am unsure weather to put this X11 or Fink on first..........


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## Glendalough (Apr 27, 2005)

Anyway, as I seem to be on my own, have decided to install X11 before Fink........Have been told by the Apple Help in Panther that X11 will be on disc 2......which it is not,.... but rather it is on disc 3.....so 2 means 3......is this the first Unix Lesson?


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## chornbe (Apr 28, 2005)

2 != 3; even for exceptionally large values of 2;

"Here endeth the lesson." -- Ramirez, Highlander I


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## ziess (Apr 28, 2005)

If you're doing non-commercial rendering check out the free version of maya on their website.


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## Glendalough (Apr 28, 2005)

chornbe, thanks for the quote, it seems to have helped, 

So far everything has gone smoothly with the X11, Fink and the Fink Commander, just a bit worried about some nasty moment of truth when I try to download these packages.........

ziess, about the Maya, think I remember vaguely hearing about this, just  wondering if anyone has tried it...........With Lightwave on the "learning edition" you get this sort of checkerboard "watermark" (a split second after it finishes rendering) which really makes any work unpresentable, perhaps one could take a quick screenshot just before/at the end.....

Also, you can't save your files, so don't think this is a very nice learning experience, (what's the point -going nowhere), could quickly degenerate into an angry hacking experience, this, perhaps, followed by a going to jail experience.......


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## chornbe (Apr 28, 2005)

Glendalough,

I'm pretty new to OSx myself - got my first *new* apple back in February. I'm a Windows and Linux user and my first addition to my new Apple was to install Fink and X11 flying blind. Since then I've done all sorts of things. The good news is, whatever you break, is only a reload away from getting abck to normal.

Go ahead and experiment. You can't break the machine just toying with software.


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## Glendalough (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks again for the encouragement, Chornbe.....

Got busy and had to get real for awhile today, just waiting for the evening telephone lines to cool down out here, then will attempt some downloading and see what happens with this X11 + Fink.....


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## Glendalough (Apr 29, 2005)

Very, very, interesting..........ah........Dah.......some of these programs don't seem to have interfaces -this is true?.......... Just use these commands?(looking at Potrace a program for converting bitmaps to vectors)........suppose the idea is you do bit of research into each package.........


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## chornbe (Apr 30, 2005)

The first rule of thumb is that the unix world is completely unfriendly to new users. It's not an intentional slap in the nuts, just the nature of things. If you're not comfortable working at the command line without a GUI safety net, it's easy to get discouraged and look for simpler options. Hang in there. Spend the time learning. Get as many books on Linux/Unix/OSx from O'Reilly and don't be afraid to jump and experiment. Like I said... it's just a reload.


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## Glendalough (Apr 30, 2005)

Thanks Again,
 just one last hint, I do believe everything is installed/ loaded in the right place-X11, Fink, and Fink Com.,and hve got a few Gimp packages which have interfaces but just want to know:
 WHAT COMMAND TO TYPE IN WHICH TERMINAL WINDOW (TERMINAL, XTERM???) TO BRING UP THE GIMP THING IN THE X11 Window with an interface...........
not well expressed ......If could just see this X11 window running an interface think it would be very inspiring nad rewarding


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## wadesworld (May 1, 2005)

Depends on where gimp was installed.  If it was done with fink, then from an Xterm window, you'd do something like "/sw/bin/gimp &"

Wade


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## Glendalough (May 1, 2005)

GOT IT!!
Thanks Wade.


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## ElDiabloConCaca (May 1, 2005)

The Gimp that they offer through Fink is old and outdated.

For an easy Gimp installation where you simply double-click the application file just like any other Macintosh application (and that is updated regularly), look here:

http://gimp-app.sourceforge.net/


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## spb (May 1, 2005)

wadesworld said:
			
		

> Depends on where gimp was installed.  If it was done with fink, then from an Xterm window, you'd do something like "/sw/bin/gimp &"
> 
> Wade



Check you $PATH variable.  I think that /sw/bin might be in your path already.  If not you can add it so that you only need to type gimp.


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## spb (May 1, 2005)

Glendalough said:
			
		

> Something called  kpovmodeler (KDE - 3D modeler and compose)



I'm curious if you get kpovmodeler to work on Mac easily.  

I installed POV-Ray on my Mac but apparently the command-line doesn't work in the Mac version.  

In GNU/Linux I can write a pov file and then use the command 

povray filename.pov -geometry 9000x6000

to create the image.  On the Mac version it has an interface that you're supposed to work with.  Supposedly it is possible to build the UNIX version of POV-Ray on the Mac, but you need to compile it manually.  

Actually this is something about the Mac that disappoints me.  I had hoped that the Mac could have more UNIX like than it is.  I frequently find myself trying to hunt for what I'm supposed to click on rather than just type the commands that work in UNIX.  OSX still beats the pants off of XP, but it certainly could benefit by becoming more NeXTStep like.


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## Glendalough (May 2, 2005)

ElDiabloConCaca-
Thanks for tip on Gimp, as you can see, trying to go the Unix way here......did load Filmgimp, says on blurb "Film Gimp is a motion picture editing tool primarily used for painting and retouching of movie images", but can't see anyway to load a film or filmstrip.......maybe just one frame at a time? Maybe they use a script or something?

Trying to get this kpovmodeler together now, but at 71MB on telephone line, takes a few hours, got cut off last night but the F.Commander picked up on partial downloaded(17MB) file where it left off, pretty sophisticated......
On the info it mentions installing kdegraphics3 package, but not sure if this is happening now or whether this is to be downloaded separately......

spb-
Speaking above my head, is POV-Ray part of kpovmodeler? Is it the renderer? Compiling this POV-Ray manually sounds a bit frightening, but don't want to come all this way to be defeated now.......

This takes me to a little fantasy. Surely one of you Unix savvy people could invent a little program, a sort of command line inserter-enabler that would say, list commands in the vernacular, english, in one column and its Unix code (or Xterm, whatever program) in another column. These could than, with a click, be sent to the program's terminal. This way the user would quickly (delete the HD!) learn the code, there could be favorites, libraries, warnings etc. like itunes....

A good name like the Commando-Auto-Accelerator could be used, maybe it could be in this new widget form, an oval or slightly irregular shape, maybe a silhouette......


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## spb (May 3, 2005)

Glendalough said:
			
		

> Is POV-Ray part of kpovmodeler? Is it the renderer? Compiling this POV-Ray manually sounds a bit frightening, but don't want to come all this way to be defeated now.......



POV-Ray is the engine that does the rendering (http://www.povray.org/).  kpovmodeler is the workspace that you use to make your model.  According to the kpovmodeler website you need povray installed.  

I don't know if it is difficult to (or if it is necessary to) compile POV-Ray to get it to work on the Mac.  I need to do this myself at some point, so I'll let you know what I find.  There is a discussion of this topic on the povray newsgroup at (http://news.povray.org/povray.unix/thread/<web.41a2452e3a58523fecfae2860@news.povray.org>/)

sb


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## Glendalough (May 4, 2005)

Got the kpovmodeler to work fine first go, but no rendering because no POV-Ray (no model to render either because I don't know how it works exactly- wonder if you build a model can it be imported into other 3D packages?)

Wonder about the POV-Ray now, does one go for the OSX version or some unix version to run on X11? 

It says in kpovmodeler instructions that you can't run POV-Ray on MacOS throught the terminal........wouldn't know how to do this myself.....


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## spb (May 4, 2005)

Glendalough said:
			
		

> Wonder about the POV-Ray now, does one go for the OSX version or some unix version to run on X11?
> 
> It says in kpovmodeler instructions that you can't run POV-Ray on MacOS throught the terminal........wouldn't know how to do this myself.....



The OSX POVRay version uses it's own input screen.  

The Unix version is command line based, thus a software package can write the pov file and run it.  

You can toy with the OSX version and then uninstall it for the Unix version if (when) needed.  

sb


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## Glendalough (May 5, 2005)

Got the OSX Pov-Ray version going somewhat, but it has trouble finding some of its file parts and can only render some simple objects and none of the full sample scenes.......

But guess its not going to integrate properly with the Kpovmodeler, Maybe better to run it in the Unix command line way as (you, spb) said....not much of an interface anyway.....
So does one use the Linux version and compile it?  Is this going to run in the Mac X11 environment or is Linux needed? 
Thanks folks for all the answers so far!


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## Viro (May 6, 2005)

Install it via fink. That's the easiest way as it sorts out all the dependencies for you.


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## Glendalough (May 6, 2005)

Hey wait -I don't get this.........POV-Ray is not on the list of the packages Fink supplies, though the Kpovmodeler is(?).......Are you saying I can install this via Fink anyway? -i.e. Fink will work for other Unix programs aside from their listed packages......(strange punctuation here)


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## Viro (May 6, 2005)

Hmm... povray and kpovmodeler is there in my fink distribution. Make sure you edit /sw/etc/fink.conf and make sure the file has the following line:



> Trees: unstable/main /unstable/crypto local/main stable/main stable/crypto



Then run fink selfupdate and you should be able to get all the packages including povray.


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## Glendalough (May 7, 2005)

Yes, this did appear to be the problem, the line in my fink.conf did not have the unstable bits. 

I attempted to put your line in but had to change permissions to save, wonder is this all right, anyway got the thing finally save but then the whole Commander freaked out and says: "WARNING: Unable to parse the line...." for about 20 different lines, things and it tells me 0 Displayed, 0 Installed


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## Glendalough (May 7, 2005)

P.S. The Mystery is Solved (why i wasn't getting the povray part of the package) which is good but now the Commander is Freaked Out, won't work, because the fink.conf file can't be read.......any ideas Please?


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## Glendalough (May 23, 2005)

Thought I would just finish this thread and not leave it in a state with everything broken. 

Reinstalled the Fink program. Found by default that it doesn't register "unstable" programs. One has to check a box in the preferences to get full 3500 programs listed. Helps to read the instructions.

The Kpovmodeler and Povray both work fine and seem to be perfectly integrated. That is you can render straight from kpovmodeler, it calls up the  Povray rendering window automatically. The Kpovmodeler seems a bit different from other 3D programs in that you make models from primitives and there doesn't seem to be any control of polygon points, but if the website is true it seems (some) people can do just about anything with it.

Some of the Fink programs seem quite bizarre. They can take a long time to download. One called Xplanet just seems to be a fixed desktop picture of the earth with the light circling it 24 hours. This took over an hour to download and I thought I was getting into astronomy. Another took over 4 hours and nothing really materialized.

The best program was one called Basilisk II. This is a mac emulator for OS6 to OS8. This Unix version seems very much superior to the OSX version. A very weird thing about it was it copied all my settings from the OSX version I had kept on the desktop and started up immediately. It needed the rom and OS7 in this folder on the desktop to function. Can't see how it worked this out.

I only mention this as these Unix programs seem to have so much trouble with file paths.

Many Thanks Again for all the Help Received Here!


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## Viro (May 23, 2005)

Hmm... sorry for not replying when you have problems. I somehow managed missed this thread altogether.

Glad you got it sorted out though.


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