# Mac OS X 10.3.9 Update: Top or Flop?



## pipermalibu (Apr 15, 2005)

I let my system (Powerbook 17" 1Ghz) do the update to 10.3.9 tonight, now it is hosed. On mandatory reboot, It goes thru the typical starting internet services, etc. messages pretty fast, then freezes for some time at 'Starting Login Window' then after 2 -3 minutes, gives me a login window (I have automatic login to a user set). I tried to log in, but it never does. It basically gives me a beachball, then comes back to login again (after about a minute). I am not near a firewire cable now, so I will buy one in the morning. I will hook up to another Pbook, and try to fix permissions....any other ideas?


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## ElDiabloConCaca (Apr 16, 2005)

Try restarting in single-user mode and running the fsck routine...


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

ran fsck in single user mode. fsck -y told me it was journaled and to try fsck -f instead. I did. It found no problems. Still the same problem, a crazy slow system, and won't login.


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## paulogdenfletcher (Apr 16, 2005)

Personally, I would boot your computer up using the 10.3 install disk.  I would then run disk utility.  I would repair the disk, and repair permissions.  Then I would boot up Disk-Warrior and let that make a replacement directory... Just a thought...

Thanks,
Paul Fletcher


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## nixgeek (Apr 16, 2005)

Wouldn't that change permissions on files that might have been added by 10.3.9, possibly making it worse?


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

Added info:
I booted in single user mode, trashed the fontcache that was referenced in some other posts on Fireball. Not the problem. I then renamed the user file via:
# cd /var/db/netinfo
# mv local.nidb local.nidb.corrupted
# reboot
Which gave me the window as if I just purchased the mac. So I decided to creat a new user, and that would not complete either (at least timely). I got clear to the point of creating a password etc, clicked continue and thats it ....nothing.
When I do get a login window (prior to renaming the user list), and typed my password, it would just hang for a while, then return to ask for my password again.


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## HateEternal (Apr 16, 2005)

You could try and create a new user in single user mode (if all the commands are avaliable) try this:


```
The quick way to add a user or a group is to feed a record in either the passwd or the group format into niload (commands you type are shown in bold; the ? is used by the here-document syntax that starts with <<EOF and ends with EOF):


% sudo niload passwd . <<EOF
? rothman:*:701:20::0:0:Ernest Rothman:/Users/rothman:/bin/tcsh
? EOF

After you've created the new user, you need to set the password, use the ditto command (a copy command that preserves HFS+ resource forks) to create the home directory, and set permissions correctly:


% sudo passwd rothman
Changing password for rothman.
New password: ********
Retype new password: ********

% sudo ditto -rsrc \
/System/Library/User\ Template/English.lproj \
/Users/rothman

% sudo chown -R rothman:staff /Users/rothman
```

This method does work from the normal terminal, if all the commands exist in single user you should be able to create a new user and try to login.


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## vinko (Apr 16, 2005)

I now have a dead PB 12" that would not boot up.

This is after downloading the 10.3.9 update via Software Update and letting it install.

Just before it is restarted I went away from the PB, when I came back the screen was black but the power is still on; I can tell from the "Caps Lock" key light still working.

BTW: through out the installation the PB12" was on AC power.

So I press and hold the Power key to force it to reboot. At first it had a strange steady long tone after pressing the Power button.

So I press the Power button again, after a few long seconds of silence, the familiar chime was heard.

Thinking that I can at least get to the desktop to run Disk Utility, I was wrong. After the Apple logo shows up, the PB just stuck there loading and loading.

I then went to get my Panther Installation Disk and attempt to reboot the PB once again with the "C" key held down to boot from CD.

The Installation disk finally booted the PB, so I immediately went to start the Disk Utility.

Disk Utility started and it started to "Gather disk information", but it just keep gathering and gathering without ever returning.

I force restart, via the Power button, a few times more attempting to start Disk Utility from the Panther Installation CD ROM, but still no luck. It just get stuck at the same place every single time.

Does anyone else have similar problem or suggestions?

I will now go and try booting the PB with Diskwarrior. Will report back afterwards.

-- Vinko


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

Can you give me the first commands again? Nothing was in bold. I am a little confused as to the upper commands in the last post


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

However, the real problem is it won't let ANY user actually login. There is a corrupt file somewhere, and I am surprised I am the only one to have this problem. I don't run any crazy programs on the mac that would prevent an update from happening properly. However, this is like the third time I have done an update when first available and it has caused me problems. I have learned (or maybe not) to always backup first (in a hotel without my backup drive), and to always wait a few days after the update is out (I was bored), and to update via a 'superuser' account I have setup for this purpose, that has no programs running( too lazy to log out and back in)......will I ever learn?
Has no one else seen this before?


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## bobw (Apr 16, 2005)

Think I'll wait for Tiger.

Talking to someone that did the 10.3.9 update, could no longer boot. Reset the PMU and it'll boot off the OS CD, but Disk Utility can't see his drive.


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## mw84 (Apr 16, 2005)

Everything seems to be working fine on the update for me? Guess I got lucky.

EDIT: Guess I'm not so lucky, on loading certain sites all that happens is the status bar goes mad and the site doesnt show.


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## fryke (Apr 16, 2005)

All the messages about PowerBooks freaking out, harddrives dying on users and other stuff (although I don't count the Safari plugin issues, since users of those should have been aware of that...) left me with a strange feeling: Did Apple really release such a *bad* system as the final update to Panther? So let's have a poll...


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## vinko (Apr 16, 2005)

Update on the previous post.

DiskWarrior could not boot the PB for some reason.

I tried starting into Single User mode when booting from the Panther CD to run fsck, but this seem to be checking the CD ROM rather than the internal HD of the PB.

Also something very strange. While in Single User mode, the message "IOATAController blocking bus" keep coming up over the prompt.

Does anyone know what that message means?

I have tried booting from the Panther CD and starting the Installer, but after the initial screen it reached the "Welcome to the Mac OS X Installer" I could not click on the "Continue" button. Well I did, but nothing happen. The button did not even appear to have accepted my click.

The HD seems to be spinning over and over.

I will now try mounting the PB as Target Drive via Firewire with my G4.


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## Convert (Apr 16, 2005)

I haven't downloaded it yet, too scared to.

I know that recently the updates haven't been that good, in terms of side effects. 10.3.8 was the worst generally, but 10.3.9 sounds really bad.

Would you recommend I, a Powerbook user, downloading it?

Thanks, won't vote yet.

EDIT: As I wrote this threads were merged, and an extra option was added in the Poll.
I will still wait though.


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## fryke (Apr 16, 2005)

Yeah, I thought the merging would cause some issues. But to have several threads about the same thing (troubles with the update) is not much better. So we have this poll and the problems and - hopefully - some solutions.


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## Convert (Apr 16, 2005)

fryke said:
			
		

> Yeah, I thought the merging would cause some issues. But to have several threads about the same thing (troubles with the update) is not much better. So we have this poll and the problems and - hopefully - some solutions.



Yeah, the merging's fine. Good work, it usually goes wrong when I do it (on other forums).

So, anyone think we'll see a Panther 10.3.9a? Or something?


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

unfortunately fsck -yf reports no problems. to vinko, if you let the powerbook set long enough booting normally, you will probably get a login window eventually (up to 15 minutes). The problem lies in corrupt files somewhere.... that I know for sure. I have no permission errors or anything when I boot single user and run fsck.


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## plasmonyc (Apr 16, 2005)

after applying 10.3.9...i can no longer use VNC Viewer or CheckPoint SecureClient VPN-1 for OS X. bummer.


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## Captain Code (Apr 16, 2005)

No problems here.  PM G4 and B&W G3. In fact I've never had any problems with any updates, but I must be lucky or something.


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## wiz (Apr 16, 2005)

well... apple says:
*Important: Please read before installing
*



You may experience unexpected results if you have installed third-party system software modifications, or if you have modified the operating system through other means. (This does not apply to normal application software installation.)
The installation process should not be interrupted. If a power outage or other interruption occurs during installation, use the standalone installer (see below) from Apple Downloads to update.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300569 for more details


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## Ashka (Apr 16, 2005)

No problems here either. One website crashed Safari but I had never tired it before so can't say that it was the update.
Safari is faster though which is great.
Safari crash website http://www.balgownievet.com.au/7_surgical_july04.htm
if anyone wants to try it


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## Convert (Apr 16, 2005)

Just tried the site, didn't crash. But then again I am on 10.3.8


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

I would love to download the standalone installer.....BUT.... I can't get on my system except in single user mode. So that is the dumbest suggestion Apple can make. No power was interupted and as far as I know, no system modifications have been made. How do we know if third party software has made modifications. I hate to say this, but XP machines let you 'undo' an update because they back up essential files for the user first. My mother's machine went south after XPSP2 was installed back in Jan. I fixed it in April be going back to a restore point the system had made......THE OLNY thing that XP has going on OSX, I guess..... no flaming please, I am a devout MAC (and Wintel convert) person. But this type of thing (happening on 3 different updates in the last year) just pisses me off. I am on my wifes machine because mine is rendered useless until we get back from our trip.


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## ljwcic (Apr 16, 2005)

I installed 10.3.9 last night via the software update (after having repaired permissions).  Everything worked fine EXCEPT Safari would not launch.  I tried it a number of times.  Firefox worked fine as did Camino.  I then trashed SAfari 1.3 (which is a result of 10.3.9 and replaced it with Safari 1.2 from the Apple website.   Now Safari works fine.


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## Giaguara (Apr 16, 2005)

Does safe boot act any different (for you with the login issue)?


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## ziess (Apr 16, 2005)

Ashka, that site didn't kill my Safari under 10.3.9 but, looking at some of those pictures, I wish it had..!


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

Safe boot acts the same as any other. There is no way in Graphically as far as I can tell. Only single user mode works....which is virtually worthless. I can use the machine as a Target Mode Firewire disk to get to data....but damn am I lucky I have another Powerbook with me. Think about the guy (or gal) that does not have that luxury. My business would come to a grinding halt and would cost me more than a cup of coffee to rescue. The moral to this story?..... BACKUP EVERYTHING TO A BOOTABLE DRIVE BEFORE ANY SYSTEM UPDATE!!!!!! I have been smacked on the nose several times, I think this time I learned.


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## HateEternal (Apr 16, 2005)

Wow, I can't believe people are having so many troubles, I expected as much from a SP update from Microsoft but they have to deal with all sorts of different hardware where as Apple knows what everyone has.

Piper have you tried using the repair utility built into Disk Utility? (booting off of either a Mac OS Install cd or BootCD)


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## pipermalibu (Apr 16, 2005)

Yup, no problems on the drive at all.


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## Chimp (Apr 16, 2005)

I love Frykes sense of humour in creating this poll.  

I hope apple has removed the update - can't find it on their Software Update site.

Managed to install fine for me though.  So far  
(12" 1GHz powerbook)


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## Satcomer (Apr 16, 2005)

ljwcic said:
			
		

> I installed 10.3.9 last night via the software update (after having repaired permissions).  Everything worked fine EXCEPT Safari would not launch.  I tried it a number of times.  Firefox worked fine as did Camino.  I then trashed SAfari 1.3 (which is a result of 10.3.9 and replaced it with Safari 1.2 from the Apple website.   Now Safari works fine.



There is a fix for the Safari "would not launch". It has to do with some third party Safari extensions. Go to Library->Application Support->SIMBL and throw out the plugins folder. I say this because it is all over the Mac part of the net.


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## andychrist (Apr 17, 2005)

That SIMBL plugin trouble, did that also involve PithHelmet?  Because I see there is a new PH release out, 2.3, specifically tailored for 10.3.9.

For me, this was one of the best Safari updates ever-- banking sites in particular are responding incredibly fast now.


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## owaters (Apr 17, 2005)

Looks like the conclusion is to stick to 10.3.8, especially if you have a PowerBook!

Maybe the release of 10.3.9 is problematic so more users upgrade to 10.4...that would be cheeky. Suppose it would also leave doubts in peoples minds to where the upgrade to 10.4 will be smooth.

We will have to see...


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## andychrist (Apr 17, 2005)

Ooh, I see AcidSearch, another SIMBL plugin, has been updated too now.

Still no problems here with the 10.3.9 update.


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## Viro (Apr 17, 2005)

I have a Powerbook 12" 1.33 GHz G4, and it works fine apart from some Safari plug-in issues. I don't have problems with Java, or anything and Safari really feels fast now.

Well worth the upgrade for me.


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## HateEternal (Apr 17, 2005)

pipermalibu said:
			
		

> Yup, no problems on the drive at all.



have you tried plutil -s on any of your preferences folders to see if your plists are corrupt?


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## Lt Major Burns (Apr 17, 2005)

now you mention it, pop ups don't seem to be working - that site above (vetinary surgery/anglo-turkish butchery) worked fine, but trying to view any of the images brought up a pop up, which does nothing.... but stay blank and not load

other than that, though, fine!   btw, what are the figures on proportions of people who own books to desktops, and for that matter, how many use the 'power' line of pro stuff?

eg: i use power mac desktop

mods: can we have a poll set up please? i'd like to know.


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## HateEternal (Apr 17, 2005)

I just upgraded, I downloaded the combined update and installed it, not problems and my G5 seems to be controlling the fans better now. Before it used to rev way up if i opened firefox.


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## riccbhard (Apr 17, 2005)

10.3.9 Update went smoothly with no problems  .


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## Giaguara (Apr 18, 2005)

Those of you with the Safari issue .. remove Acidsearch if you have that, or update it to 0.4 http://www.pozytron.com/acidsearch?0.4 which is compatible with Safari 1.3. If you have AcidSearch, the older version is most likely to have caused the hassle.
Also, Pithhelmet (http://culater.net/software/PithHelmet/PithHelmet.php) or ANY other software that interacts with Safari, and was added by you, could give some hints of what is the incompatibility. Check the crash logs to see what makes them crash. 
And if it's something ELSE than AcidSearch maybe identifying it will help the others


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## juanpeist (Apr 18, 2005)

Hi guys, i installed the update... after that on pc running xp can't connect to my Mac... i can connect to the pc...
I try it all... reconfigure the network, turn off fiklesharing and turn on again... switch off the sharepoints, but nothing work...

i will still trying... 

any idea?

im sure it's the 10.3.9... apple said: "new features in pc/mac connect" or something like...

cheers, J!


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## Tetano (Apr 18, 2005)

Ok, did the upgrade, the new version of PithHelmet (2.3.1) is ok, while i had to remove Acid Search, which, either with the newest version, was causing Safari to crash... the same problem happened on my girlfriend's 15" PB, but now it's solved... but the speed boost of Safari is really impressive...


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## andehlu (Apr 18, 2005)

absolutely no problems here on my powerbook 1.5 15". I did a permission repair before and after 10.3.9 from softwaqre update and im sailing sweet.


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## texanpenguin (Apr 18, 2005)

Gees, I sure am glad I didn't see this thread before updating my PowerBook .

Everything is great here, and on my G3 iMac. I had a number of permissions that needed repairing, but not so many to cause a bother.

Safari is quick and hasn't slowed to a crawl ONCE yet (it used to do this about every time I opened like ten tabs).

Overall, Apple's getting better with their system updates (despite these occasional weird problems). 10.3.8 made my PowerBook roughly three times quicker (so it seemed) and 10.3.9 has certainly not been anything but good.


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## retroandy (Apr 18, 2005)

The update went well on my old G3 iMac DV, downloaded the stand alone Combo update and have no problems, this morning though my B&W G3 auto updated with the 10.3.9 from the Software Update window; on reboot it just sits forever "Waiting for Auto directory binding" at the final stages of log in. Nothing I do will spur it on. 

I don't even remember seeing this message before now, it's not part of the iMacs boot process. It can be logged into via ethernet so I guess I'm not completely frustrated, I'll try and repair via the O/S disks or reinstall later.  Not best pleased! ;-)

Andy


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## rubecious (Apr 18, 2005)

*knocks on wood*
No problems so far in just working with it.

I read this and other threads, so I ran the permissions repair and installed the combo update, not using the Software Update utility.
Also I have no third party Safari plugins, except the ones that got installed with the OS and Safari, also I only have software by "respectable" companies, meaning no sharewary, freeware stuff, or maybe one or two pieces of simple freeware.
So I decided to try it.

Powerbook, 133GHZ, 1GIG SDRAM


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## Satcomer (Apr 18, 2005)

juanpeist said:
			
		

> Hi guys, i installed the update... after that on pc running xp can't connect to my Mac... i can connect to the pc...
> I try it all... reconfigure the network, turn off fiklesharing and turn on again... switch off the sharepoints, but nothing work...
> 
> i will still trying...
> ...




Read this MacOSXHint for a fix.


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## Darkshadow (Apr 18, 2005)

I installed with Software Update on my G4 (Sawtooth) and iBook G4 with no problems.  Didn't repair permissions on either machine, either.  I'll get to that sooner or later. 

Interestingly, the only problem I had with Safari was USBOverdrive - even though the mouse driver portion was turned off, I still had to go into it and set the middle mouse button (scroll wheel) to be a middle mouse button click.  I couldn't open up links in new tabs until I thought of doing that - a bit annoying.

Piper - try holding down *command ( &#8984; ) V* (where you would hold down the keys for a single-user boot).  You didn't mention if you'd tried that or not.  It'll show the console rather than the graphical stuff while it's loading, and you'll be able to see any errors or warnings that may be tripping up the boot process. Post back with anything that looks strange.


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## MacGizmo (Apr 18, 2005)

With Tiger so close, I saw no reason at all to run this update especially considering Apple's horrible track record with these minor updates!


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## Natobasso (Apr 19, 2005)

I know this suggestion will seem not only too-little-too-late but also a bit snide, but here goes.

Since OS X first came out I've been told to never download the latest update, only the one BEFORE it. Then you can let other brave souls deal with these sorts of issuesjust my two cents.

Sucks that these updates always seem to have a high price, and they appear to be benign reminders from Apple to keep up with the Jones' via "software update".


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## OraliusJohnosn (Apr 19, 2005)

my computers blowing up and freezing every 10 minutes which it wasn't doing before the update, anybody else have this problem?  my mouse and keyboard stop affecting the computer and i have to manually restart

i have a power mac silver dual g4


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## paulogdenfletcher (Apr 19, 2005)

When I've used Disk Warrior I've never had it 'screw' up my computer.  It probably changes some permissions.  But when I've had problems such as these, it hasn't made things worse.  It has given me a way to fix the problem without having to reinstall the system.
...................
Just a thought, you could do an 'Archive & Reinstall', all your files would be saved, but it would reinstall the 'System folder' & a few other things, that might just fix your problems.

Thanks,
Paul Fletcher

~paulfletcher@my-computergeek.com


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## mwwhonda (Apr 19, 2005)

dual 1.8ghz g5
upgraded to 10.3.9 and now classic won't fully load.  it gets to the last 1/4" of the loading bar and just hangs.

did the good ole' repair disk permissions a few times and reinstalled classic, same deal.

any suggestions?


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## renovator (Apr 19, 2005)

Problem:Installed 10.3.9 update. Cannot access the hard drive or folders on the desktop. Cannot access items from the GO menu. Can use find to get to folders on the hard drive, such as Utilities.
Specifics: Double click hard drive icon, dialog box to attach to a network server opens requesting username and password. Supplying the correct username and password for that server and clicking connect causes the pinwheel to spin. Choosing an item from the go menu, like utilities, causes a blank dialog box to appear.
Solution attempts: Pepair permissions. Rebuild index.


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## rubecious (Apr 19, 2005)

Did anyone post this already?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301380


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## ackatack (Apr 19, 2005)

My company just had all 3 of our test systems fail to reboot after installing this update.  Each system is configured slightly different from the other to reflect our 3 system build types in house.  Similarities between the three are: multi-user environment with an administrator and a user with limited access to applications; updated from 10.3.8 with all other updates current; Adobe CS, Firefox, Office X.1.6, FileMaker Pro 6.4, and Apple Remote Desktop 2 installed; at least 512MB of RAM; purchased within the last 6 months but range from an iBook, eMac, and a G5.


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## renovator (Apr 19, 2005)

The system that can't access the hard drive, folders on the desktop, or items from the GO menu also has Adobe CS installed. It is a G4 with 1.5 GB RAM, had OS 10.3.8, Quark Xpress 6.5 and FontAgent Pro 3.


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## Quietly (Apr 20, 2005)

Installed 10.3.9, everything works fine except that my iMac won't now shut down! Everything seems to turn off except the fan which, after a few seconds, decides to turn into a gale. Only option is to hold the power button down.


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## FlashMac (Apr 20, 2005)

Installed on G4 500Mhz (768RAM) - 10.3.9 knackered Apple Remote Desktop 2.1, just wouldnt start (even after repairing permissions etc) - reinstalled it; still takes several minutes to launch window but working now.
Installed on B+W G3 running Quark 6 - no problems found yet but it hasn't really been used since.
Installed on 2 G4s running InDesign, seem ok. 

I've only just got my people into using Safari rather IE, and I've got designers and deadlines - I'm tempted to wait for Tiger. 

Is there any chance that parts of this update prepare the machine for Tiger in some way, as in; would it be safer to upgrade from 10.3.8 to 10.4 or from 10.3.9 to 10.4?


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## macavenger (Apr 20, 2005)

FlashMac said:
			
		

> Is there any chance that parts of this update prepare the machine for Tiger in some way, as in; would it be safer to upgrade from 10.3.8 to 10.4 or from 10.3.9 to 10.4?


I wouldn't think so. 10.4 is a completely new operating system, not just an update from 10.3. Frankly, I'm planning to do an archive and install, not even keeping my users and settings when I install 10.4. Bit of work to get back up and running, but considering that my home directory contains junk that is over 3 (or more) years old, it is probably due for a rebuild


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## thewelshman (Apr 21, 2005)

I won't  upgrade for a while till the kinks have been sorted with Tiger, the other reason is I don't have a G5 to take me too 64 bit and all the "behind the scenes" OS tasks, for me that's where the real improvements will be taking place not the "eye candy" widgets.  However I still wouldn't upgrade a current Panther, but put it onto a new system disk.  Its always a good idea to keep the OS on its own disk(s).


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## Veljo (Apr 22, 2005)

bobw said:
			
		

> Think I'll wait for Tiger.


Word.


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## simmorya (Apr 22, 2005)

downloaded the 10.3.9 combo update, burnt it and formatted my system. installed my OSX cd (v10.3.7) and installed the update. everything runs faster in my experience.. not 1 problem so far.


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## chevy (Apr 22, 2005)

There is an update for the update available.


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## aicul (Apr 23, 2005)

my update was ok, but couldn't notice any diference. Except for ..

Safari default bookmarks (ie. apple, ebay, etc..) suddenly re-appeared in my bookmark bar after my personal bookmarks.


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## g/re/p (Apr 23, 2005)

I have an empty partition ready and waiting for Tiger.


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## spaceman_spiff (Apr 24, 2005)

Based on the command line fix I've packaged this into an installer which is attached to this reply.

Good Luck


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## thewelshman (May 4, 2005)

After updating to 10.3.9, when I shutdown the G4 all is ok, until the big 23" monitor switches off, when this happens the G4 turns itself back on and boots up.  I haven't done any work to find out if this is the graphics card or the USB interface in the monitor thats causing a COLD system boot.  If I leave the monitor on in standby,  the G4 stays off.

Booting can be inconsistent, but mostly ok.  

I have a 10.3.8 disk also in th same machine that I can boot off, it doesn't exhibit the above.

If I use "shutdown -h now" from the UNIX command line the machine does not exhibit the above.

But no disasters


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