BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
is that possible? it's the only option since wireless is too expensive for me at this time
Connecting iMac & Dell with "Crossover Cable" to share net connection
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nkuvu
Gone
Yes, very possible. Depends on the OS on the Dell for specific details (the Mac, too, I guess, but I am assuming OS X).
I ran the 'net connection from the Win2K box. This is how I did it. This does not address the actual network connection (file sharing, printer sharing, etc), just the sharing of an Internet connection.
On the Dell, set the network card to have a static IP address. I used 10.0.0.1 because 10.x.x.x numbers are reserved for local networks, and it's easy to remember. On my Windows2K box, I was able to right-click on my internet connection, choose the 'Sharing' tab, then click on "Share this connection". Sorry if the details are a little off -- working from memory here. Make sure that when you set the internet connection sharing, it doesn't reset your IP address. Mine warned me by saying "You changed something. Bad user. Now I am going to set it back to 192.168.10.1 or something like that. Shame."
On the Mac, set your ethernet settings to manual. You don't want your IP addresses changing to suit the weather. The IP address at the top is your Mac's IP address. If you're just worried about the 'net connection, this shouldn't matter. I used the network, so I set it to 10.0.0.2. Subnet mask should be left at 255.255.255.0. Set the router to 10.0.0.1 (if you set it the way that I did on the Windows box) and you should be good to go.
I ran the 'net connection from the Win2K box. This is how I did it. This does not address the actual network connection (file sharing, printer sharing, etc), just the sharing of an Internet connection.
On the Dell, set the network card to have a static IP address. I used 10.0.0.1 because 10.x.x.x numbers are reserved for local networks, and it's easy to remember. On my Windows2K box, I was able to right-click on my internet connection, choose the 'Sharing' tab, then click on "Share this connection". Sorry if the details are a little off -- working from memory here. Make sure that when you set the internet connection sharing, it doesn't reset your IP address. Mine warned me by saying "You changed something. Bad user. Now I am going to set it back to 192.168.10.1 or something like that. Shame."
On the Mac, set your ethernet settings to manual. You don't want your IP addresses changing to suit the weather. The IP address at the top is your Mac's IP address. If you're just worried about the 'net connection, this shouldn't matter. I used the network, so I set it to 10.0.0.2. Subnet mask should be left at 255.255.255.0. Set the router to 10.0.0.1 (if you set it the way that I did on the Windows box) and you should be good to go.
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
Thanks nkuvu...
The Dell is the one that has the Internet Connection, but it's not through the modem, it's through Phoneline Networking.... but I have an ethernet port available for use for this specific reason.
If I did want to share files (just for a while so I can transfer my PSD's and PDF's and Music to my new Mac), how would I do that?
But IF I go the AirPort way, would a 802.11b PCI adapter (say from Linksys or Netgear) work with the AirPort Base Station on these OS's (one desktop on Windows ME, one laptop on ME (probably XP very soon if this wireless works, and then this XP desktop)
all help would be appreciated...
The Dell is the one that has the Internet Connection, but it's not through the modem, it's through Phoneline Networking.... but I have an ethernet port available for use for this specific reason.
If I did want to share files (just for a while so I can transfer my PSD's and PDF's and Music to my new Mac), how would I do that?
But IF I go the AirPort way, would a 802.11b PCI adapter (say from Linksys or Netgear) work with the AirPort Base Station on these OS's (one desktop on Windows ME, one laptop on ME (probably XP very soon if this wireless works, and then this XP desktop)
all help would be appreciated...
a crossover cable should work just fine. just make sure your IP addresses are on the same subnet. i think windows will turn on some little DHCP service when you do internet connection sharing. i m not positive if all versions of windows do it.
for sharing files, you can use OSXs SMB client. you can install samba on OSX and use network neighborhood from the win box. or you can turn on ftp access on OSX (easiest to set up, most reliable, but hardest to use).
standard 802.11b card should work with airport. i ve never done it, but apple s documentation assures us that it is possible. find their airport networking how-to pdf. it will tell you all about how to set up wireless networking. but basically it is the same as fast ethernet networking, but without the cabling. only the mac can configure the airport router, but the protocols are standard, and third party card work. i have, for example, used farallon wireless cards on pre-airport macs, to connect to airport networks.
i have heard that some powerbooks were even smart enough to autodetect whether a corssover connection was required, and would do the crossover them selves, thereby obviating the need for a corssover cable. straight-through works for computer to computer connection! but i think that is only powerbooks. not powermacs.
finally, let me suggest a middle ground solution, between using windows as your router (very unreliable, poor performace), and going airport ($300 for router, plus 2 cards, maybe $500 total??). get a regular hardware router, and use fast ethernet. downside is wires everywhere. the plus is that it is a lot better performance (read faster and more stable than windows). you would have to leave your windows box on all the time for the network to function, and if there is one thing that windows doesn t deal well with, it s being on all the time. these hardware routers go for as low as $80 or so. and ethernet cable can go for pennies if you go to the right place. you can get routers with print servers on them, so you can share printers without having a dedicated workstation, and serial ports to hook up a modem in case your DSL goes down. these features don t add too much to the price either.
for sharing files, you can use OSXs SMB client. you can install samba on OSX and use network neighborhood from the win box. or you can turn on ftp access on OSX (easiest to set up, most reliable, but hardest to use).
standard 802.11b card should work with airport. i ve never done it, but apple s documentation assures us that it is possible. find their airport networking how-to pdf. it will tell you all about how to set up wireless networking. but basically it is the same as fast ethernet networking, but without the cabling. only the mac can configure the airport router, but the protocols are standard, and third party card work. i have, for example, used farallon wireless cards on pre-airport macs, to connect to airport networks.
i have heard that some powerbooks were even smart enough to autodetect whether a corssover connection was required, and would do the crossover them selves, thereby obviating the need for a corssover cable. straight-through works for computer to computer connection! but i think that is only powerbooks. not powermacs.
finally, let me suggest a middle ground solution, between using windows as your router (very unreliable, poor performace), and going airport ($300 for router, plus 2 cards, maybe $500 total??). get a regular hardware router, and use fast ethernet. downside is wires everywhere. the plus is that it is a lot better performance (read faster and more stable than windows). you would have to leave your windows box on all the time for the network to function, and if there is one thing that windows doesn t deal well with, it s being on all the time. these hardware routers go for as low as $80 or so. and ethernet cable can go for pennies if you go to the right place. you can get routers with print servers on them, so you can share printers without having a dedicated workstation, and serial ports to hook up a modem in case your DSL goes down. these features don t add too much to the price either.
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
thank you to all for your help!
here's what i was looking at last night
Linksys EtherFast Wireless Cable/DSL Access Point/Router plus 2 wireless network cards and a wireless PCMCIA card for my laptop.. around $500... pretty much 99% out of the question...
this is what I was looking at this morning
Linksys EFAH05W 5-port Auto-Sensing Hub... that would only be $50 (plus the cost of wiring). We ruled this out January 2001 since we didn't want cords running all over our house!
so that's what I will probably do...
so now that I know what I will do, how easy is it to set up the net connection on OS X?
here's what i was looking at last night
Linksys EtherFast Wireless Cable/DSL Access Point/Router plus 2 wireless network cards and a wireless PCMCIA card for my laptop.. around $500... pretty much 99% out of the question...
this is what I was looking at this morning
Linksys EFAH05W 5-port Auto-Sensing Hub... that would only be $50 (plus the cost of wiring). We ruled this out January 2001 since we didn't want cords running all over our house!
so that's what I will probably do...
so now that I know what I will do, how easy is it to set up the net connection on OS X?
nkuvu
Gone
How difficult is OS X in comparison to WinXP? Heh. It's not difficult at all. In Windows, there are about 42 different places to put an IP address to get the networking going. In OS X, there's one for PPP, one for Ethernet, and one for AirPort if you have it.
To get a file sharing system, I used PC MACLAN -- I didn't buy it since I knew it would be a short term use, just went with the trial version. PC MACLAN runs on the Windows side, and pretends that the Windows computer is running AppleShare (or AppleTalk, I don't remember which). Then on the Mac side you just connect to server. There are more details, of course, but since it's been a while I don't remember them all. The instructions would be fuzzier than what I wrote for the net connection sharing.
Speaking of which, if you have a cable/DSL connection on the Windows side, it would basically be running like a proxy server, so I don't think you'd have to mess with much to get the connection shared. In fact, I think the Mac side of things would be exactly the same. But since I've never done this, I can't say for sure...
To get a file sharing system, I used PC MACLAN -- I didn't buy it since I knew it would be a short term use, just went with the trial version. PC MACLAN runs on the Windows side, and pretends that the Windows computer is running AppleShare (or AppleTalk, I don't remember which). Then on the Mac side you just connect to server. There are more details, of course, but since it's been a while I don't remember them all. The instructions would be fuzzier than what I wrote for the net connection sharing.
Speaking of which, if you have a cable/DSL connection on the Windows side, it would basically be running like a proxy server, so I don't think you'd have to mess with much to get the connection shared. In fact, I think the Mac side of things would be exactly the same. But since I've never done this, I can't say for sure...
i believe that when you enable internet sharing with windows, it starts up a DHCP server. this can be highly highly problematic if you don t want it, but for your purposes it makes set-up quite simple. the mac will just detect the settings. network setup on a mac is quite easy. if you can do it on a PC you can certainly do it on a mac
at my school, the dorm networks run DHCP, and when XP came out, and people started coming to school with XP installed, if the computer had for example, both a modem and ethernet, then the machine did DHCP. and since the main DHCP server was farther away, perhaps on a different subnet, the whole dorm would get bad IPs and the whole dorm went offline. this is a very annoying feature to have turned on by default. VERY VERY annoying! i can t tell you how much the netadmins curse MS.
at my school, the dorm networks run DHCP, and when XP came out, and people started coming to school with XP installed, if the computer had for example, both a modem and ethernet, then the machine did DHCP. and since the main DHCP server was farther away, perhaps on a different subnet, the whole dorm would get bad IPs and the whole dorm went offline. this is a very annoying feature to have turned on by default. VERY VERY annoying! i can t tell you how much the netadmins curse MS.
by the way, a hub is not sufficient for sharing an internet connection. you need a hardware router. and yes, cat 5 cabling is quite ugly around the house. you can be creative with ways to hide it, but it s never as nice as wireless. also nice with wireless is the ability to be somewhat mobile with your laptop. but keeping windows as your router is really only good for a temporary solution, as testuser said.
by the way, your question 'how easy is it to do x on a mac?'. the answer is almost always 'easier'
by the way, your question 'how easy is it to do x on a mac?'. the answer is almost always 'easier'
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
thanks... now if I use the hardware ROUTER, can I do file sharing or is that not possible without something else? we like the ability to do file sharing since we transfer many documents between computers...
sorry if all of this is getting confusing
sorry if all of this is getting confusing
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
also
I have a HP Pavilion @ 350 MHz running Windows ME
that is currently my internet connection sharing and file sharing computer...
when i get my iMac, I will have no use for that anymore since i'll put my Dell somewhere else for my sisters to use...
so my question is....
can I use the HP as a File Sharing PC that is connected to the network?
this is getting very confusing... to me even!
I have a HP Pavilion @ 350 MHz running Windows ME
that is currently my internet connection sharing and file sharing computer...
when i get my iMac, I will have no use for that anymore since i'll put my Dell somewhere else for my sisters to use...
so my question is....
can I use the HP as a File Sharing PC that is connected to the network?
this is getting very confusing... to me even!
oh man! a 350 MHz PC running ME is your router? that s the worst option. let me just say that while windows is just no good at that sort of thing, any version of windows running the NT kernel (NT, 2000, XP) is a much much better option. it has better multitasking, and just a lot of low level features that are pretty much required for this kind of thing. anything running the windows 3.1 kernel (3.1, 95, 98, ME) is the worst choice.
with that said, the answer is no. the hardware router will not allow you to do things that the windows internet connection sharing would not (with the possible exception of appletalk sharing). the hardware router will just work a lot better. windows ME will crash, and then the rest of your network has no connection. you give your dell to your sister, the rest of the network has no connection. hardware routers are cheap enough that there is no excuse not to have one.
but in theory, you can do file sharing with just a hub. combined with windows internet connection sharing, this will allow you to connect as many machines as you want (again, i do not recommend this!!!) the hardware router does not give you more functionality, it just takes the load of your frail windows box. it is probably more configurable, but you might not need too much of that. it seems that you are looking more for ease of use than configurability.
two more points:
what i said before about it always being easier to do something on a mac.... well here is a very important exception. this internet connection sharing thing, can be done on the mac too. in fact the BSD sublayer of OSX is generally regarded as a much superior platform to do this kind of routing on. this would require a second network card for the mac*, so it s probably not worth it to you. and i don t know if this Phoneline networking whatever program you use is mac compatible. i just wanted to mention the fact that it is there. my point is, to set up this internet connection sharing complete with routing and NAT, with windows basically requires a right click. with OSX it requires extensive command line configuration. it is more powerful and more reliable and more configurable, but much harder to use, for sure**. maybe one day apple will integrate this into the GUI. that would be cool.
* I believe it is possible to router with only one network interface. i really don t approve of that option though. it gives me the creeps actually.
** there is a very nice third party GUI front end to these command line options. again, this is all FYI. i am not recommending any of this for you. what you want is a hardware router (wired or wireless when you got bucks)
and the second point: to answer your question, yes, you can use that old dell as a file server. stick it up in the attic and turn on windows file sharing, and then use the OSX SMB client. infos on that are everywehre on this board. i have not been too happy with OSX s SMB client. i think it is a little flaky, but it is very nice to have that option. there are also third party solutions for both the mac and pc platform, macpclan, dave, sharity, etc. my recommendation here though, if you think you are willing to set sail from the microsoft empire would be to install linux of freeBSD on that pc. it is a much better platform for a network server than windows ME. perish the thought. you can serve files over SMB with samba, nfs, AFP with netatalk, or just plain old ftp. all these combos work, i assure you. nfs might be the easiest server to set up, and on OSX i think AFP is the easiest client to use, since it has that browsable interface.
yes, network administration seems confusing and daunting at first. but we re here to help!
with that said, the answer is no. the hardware router will not allow you to do things that the windows internet connection sharing would not (with the possible exception of appletalk sharing). the hardware router will just work a lot better. windows ME will crash, and then the rest of your network has no connection. you give your dell to your sister, the rest of the network has no connection. hardware routers are cheap enough that there is no excuse not to have one.
but in theory, you can do file sharing with just a hub. combined with windows internet connection sharing, this will allow you to connect as many machines as you want (again, i do not recommend this!!!) the hardware router does not give you more functionality, it just takes the load of your frail windows box. it is probably more configurable, but you might not need too much of that. it seems that you are looking more for ease of use than configurability.
two more points:
what i said before about it always being easier to do something on a mac.... well here is a very important exception. this internet connection sharing thing, can be done on the mac too. in fact the BSD sublayer of OSX is generally regarded as a much superior platform to do this kind of routing on. this would require a second network card for the mac*, so it s probably not worth it to you. and i don t know if this Phoneline networking whatever program you use is mac compatible. i just wanted to mention the fact that it is there. my point is, to set up this internet connection sharing complete with routing and NAT, with windows basically requires a right click. with OSX it requires extensive command line configuration. it is more powerful and more reliable and more configurable, but much harder to use, for sure**. maybe one day apple will integrate this into the GUI. that would be cool.
* I believe it is possible to router with only one network interface. i really don t approve of that option though. it gives me the creeps actually.
** there is a very nice third party GUI front end to these command line options. again, this is all FYI. i am not recommending any of this for you. what you want is a hardware router (wired or wireless when you got bucks)
and the second point: to answer your question, yes, you can use that old dell as a file server. stick it up in the attic and turn on windows file sharing, and then use the OSX SMB client. infos on that are everywehre on this board. i have not been too happy with OSX s SMB client. i think it is a little flaky, but it is very nice to have that option. there are also third party solutions for both the mac and pc platform, macpclan, dave, sharity, etc. my recommendation here though, if you think you are willing to set sail from the microsoft empire would be to install linux of freeBSD on that pc. it is a much better platform for a network server than windows ME. perish the thought. you can serve files over SMB with samba, nfs, AFP with netatalk, or just plain old ftp. all these combos work, i assure you. nfs might be the easiest server to set up, and on OSX i think AFP is the easiest client to use, since it has that browsable interface.
yes, network administration seems confusing and daunting at first. but we re here to help!
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
wow... lots of info there...
i have found a Netgear USB PhoneLine adapter, and it says it is not reliant on any OS... so that makes me think that it will work on OS X (somehow, some way)
i'll look at your post here in a few minutes and i'll reply..
i have found a Netgear USB PhoneLine adapter, and it says it is not reliant on any OS... so that makes me think that it will work on OS X (somehow, some way)
i'll look at your post here in a few minutes and i'll reply..
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
it's was cheap and easy... therefore we did it...
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
NEW CONCEPT!
how would YOU network a Mac and a PC together when they're many feet away and stringing ethernet wire across your house and wireless is an expensive choice?
THERE MUST BE EASIER WAYS!
how would YOU network a Mac and a PC together when they're many feet away and stringing ethernet wire across your house and wireless is an expensive choice?
THERE MUST BE EASIER WAYS!
nkuvu
Gone
Easy. Move them closer together. 
Failing that, I'd break out the ol' telepathic hamster routine. You know, train the hamsters to telepathically relay all network messages. What? Don't have any of those? Hmm.
I don't think that there are a lot of options. Wireless networking, which is too expensive. Ethernet (CAT5e) cable networking, too ugly. Phone line networking, uh... too ugly and too slow? (I have no idea what the transmission rates are for phone line networks)
Am I missing anything?
Failing that, I'd break out the ol' telepathic hamster routine. You know, train the hamsters to telepathically relay all network messages. What? Don't have any of those? Hmm.
I don't think that there are a lot of options. Wireless networking, which is too expensive. Ethernet (CAT5e) cable networking, too ugly. Phone line networking, uh... too ugly and too slow? (I have no idea what the transmission rates are for phone line networks)
Am I missing anything?
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
it works PERFECTLY FINE... i never transfer large files, so it's actually pretty quick for me...
it doesn't degrade internet speed
so in all actuality, it's a good alternative (it runs at 10MB/sec, so it's the same as regular ethernet but don't get it confused with fast ethernet which is much faster)
if there's a Phone Line networking for the Mac that will work with my current configuration of 1 PC & 1 Laptop, please tell me!
BlingBling 3k12
Somewhere... dunno though
we have phone lines strung around the house (since there weren't any jacks in all the rooms) so I guess some ugly blue cable (does it come in white also?) wouldn't be that bad...