Follow the Bouncing Thread...

[edX]

Well, having written to the moderator to reopen a certain locked up thread, i will post some response here. for the most part, i would hope that we can avoid the fun we were having and just stick to friends discussing things.

as said by solrac in another thread
Sure I'll join the fight against evil monopolies and evil AOL and evil record labels doing un-creative and beaurocratic and anti-musical shit.... but if a certain software program or a certain musician prospered from something evil, but the software or the music is great, I'll listen to it!! And I'll love it. Doesn't mean I'll pay for the software or the music though!!!

so how will you join the fight against the monopolies? what would you do to keep them from controlling the internet and the knowledge contained there? What better plan have you got and are putting into action?

i also assume you must watch a lot of snuff films since you don't care about the evil involved in the making of something and only the end result. You are saying snuff films are ok, aren't you? Because the end product is much more convincing than any death scene you see on network TV.

I help people every chance I get. But if I see an opportunity to help myself I will do so, as long as it doesn't hurt others.

This is perhaps one of the most troubling statements for me. and it has nothing to do with Chimera or Mozilla or any specific thing. It has to do with "me first". The truth is that most of us are pretty unaware of how our actions effect or affect others. We just do whatever provides immediate satisfaction. We want life to be better for us - screw everybody else. If they weren't so stupid they wouldn't be in the mess they're in. What matters is that i have the best of everything. So at what point will you start to pay attention to how your actions effect the world? Before or after the last tree in the rainforests has been chopped down?

What i want to know, is when did browsers become so all important to anyone's life that it doesn't matter what kind of corruption is behind them, only that they can set new track records at the Daytona 500? If evil personified walked up to you and said they would give you the best browser ever made and all they wanted was the life of someone close to you, would that be a deal you would take?

I'm actually not embarrased to show my PC friends this browser!! It's so great! I'm so happy I found it!!!

i wouldn't be embarrased to show my pc using friends any of the new generation browsers - Omni, Opera or icab. The fact for me is that if all they care about is a browser, then i can feel good because i have a computer i know how to do real computer work on , not just accomplish what web tv does. Again, when did browsers become the measure of a computer's efficiency?

and btw - I voted for Mondale. I don't worry too much about which hand is which. I know my left foot from my right foot from wearing shoes and I assume the hands are on the same side.

vanguard - you must have loved that thread while it lasted. you were just complaining about how we are too nice on this site. I hope you enjoyed your chance to let it out. and you did it very gracefully i might add. (other than insulting the French )

Big Hairy Dog - i will get to your points next post. I need a break at this point.

 

[fryke]

There should be warning signs on EULAs of the two 'evil' browsers: 'This product might or might not affect directly or indirectly nothing or anything at all in your life or anybody else's.' Well now...

I think the thread - although closed, as it seems - might have gone a bit too far, no?

 

[edX]

fryke - i think the other thread started out just a little too far. either it was meant to stir me into something or solrac really has been out of touch with the site for awhile. but frankly i found most of his explanation to be satisfactory as the thread progressed and he calmed down. I think in the end that the thread was starting to do some good, if for no other reason than to prove that people can make mistakes in communication and not die from it. and that i won't play flame games. but that vanguard is really very good at a sarcastic retort when he wants to be.

and that many of those of us who don't see eye to eye on the issue can still respect each other. (this must be my 1% right ) btw vanguard, thanks for saying what you said to start with.

and hopefully in the end, it showed that it is better to keep the insults in the cuss thread and the discussion in the hot topics thread.

hmmm, ever notice that the word discuss has the word cuss in it? perhaps that is where our friend solrac got confused

 

[Matrix Agent]

Pretty sure that Solarac thought you were just trolling against him, so he got mad, and you blew him out of the macosx.com water with a whole bunch of facts. He was just mad because you made him look stupid. I'm glad it's over though.

 

[twyg]

Ed, your inbox is full

Anyway, I was not the one who closed this thread.

Please hold while I see if Admin is available...

*cheesy musak*

 

[googolplex]

why must everyone get so worked up about mozilla . we all know that I'm an angle in this area

 

[edX]

Pretty sure that Solarac thought you were just trolling against him, so he got mad

you might have a point Phil. I will give him credit for making one of the most detailed descriptions of the technical pros and cons of Mozilla in an initial post with link that has appeared to date. I am sure he put some effort into gathering and compiling that info. It was also very fair.

Jeez, i've been on hold a long time. this music is awful

 

[edX]

ok, while i'm holding, i want to address a point that bighairydog made in the other thread -

Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure you will ;o) but I thought AOL used IE as it’s guts. This in my view makes any help I give Mozilla and therefore Netscape perfectly OK. Just because AOL owns Netscape, It doesn’t make Netscape bad – My beef with AOL is entirely unconnected with Netscape, it’s to do with the AOL ASP division as an anti-Mac ASP.

An analogy – compare the two:


1. I dislike Microsoft because they threaten apple on uncompetitive terms and make shit products, and I therefore dislike Bill Gates for his role in Microsoft. Bill Gates owns Corbis Images.com, and I like them because they have good images for sale. I don’t see buying from Corbis as a violation of my Anti-Bill Gates principles.


2. I dislike the AOL ASP division because they ignore apple-users and make a shit product, and I therefore dislike AOL for its role in the AOL ASP division. AOL owns Netscape, and I like it because it is a good browser. I don’t see using Netscape as a violation of my Anti-AOL principles.

OK did you think the first of the two comparisons was reasonable? I did, and the same logic applies to the second.

You may now pull out your flame thrower...

1st, i have no interest in torching you, you cute fluffy thing you.

second, you are right that aol uses ie in its aol package. but they own netscape which is directly derived from mozilla after sticking a few little proprietary improvements on it. I already answered part of your question about how companies make money off free browsers, so i hope you now see that any money made by netscape goes to aol eventually. and since aol gets their development of netscape for practically free thru the efforts of its users, using mozilla eventually ends up increasing aol profits. maybe each user only plays a very small part, but take away enough of those small parts and the beast (as others have so aptly named it) will feel it.

as for your two examples - thanks for letting me know about a BG co. that i wasn't aware of. and no, they won't be getting any of my money, even if they had the most awesome graphics in the universe. so therefore i can't go to step 2 in your logic because the premise of step 1 is false for me. Either way you are putting money into BG's pockets and he will use that money to control your world and take choices away from you. just because you get something pretty in return doesn't change the power and control you are enabling BG with. It doesn't matter where the money comes from if it ends up in the same place. this is the whole theory of economic diversity - if one source of income dries up, then another still feeds you. little or no loss of power that way.

and one final point that everybody seems to neglect which is related to the point about the aol/ie/netscape relationship. Just because aol isn't using netscape in it's packages today, does not mean they won't tomorrow. i am betting that they will change at some point. and probably on the mac platform first - as a sort of test market. and just because they aren't the worst offenders today doesn't mean they won't be tomorrow. 5 yrs ago few would have envisioned that netscape would end up being owned by aol. 15 year ago i would never have imagined that pc's would be more popular than macs. The fact is that who we support today determines who will be the best or worst of tomorrow. At this point i would rather take a chance with the small guys i don't know than the big guys i know too well.

 

[googolplex]

Microsoft could use mozilla for all I care. If AOL wants to use mozilla someone else could too. Isn't that good.