I recently saw this on Paul Thurrott's WinSuperSite web site inregards to some new video that supposedly is the new Windows UI:
In the video, a third duplicate is opened as well, and then they're dragged to the Recycle Bin, ala the Mac OS. But Microsoft would never subvert this most idiotic part of the Mac user interface, of course.
I wrote to him and explained the reason that Macs use the drag-to-trash method and how it's very much improved in OS X with the Trash icon changing and etc.
THIS IS WHAT PAUL WROTE BACK TO ME:
"I'm familiar with the history of the Mac, but this detailed explanation of drive ejection just has me shaking my head. Using the same interface paradigm today, in an age of 120 GB hard drives and 10 GB portable media players, as we did in 1984 is lame. It's similar to the same reason why OS X/Aqua is not really a step up from any other OS, UI-wise: "Prettier" isn't innovative. It's the same old desktop paradigm all over again, and they even brought over some of the sillier problems from previous Mac OS versions.
And using the Trash to eject a disk *is* nonsensical, especially in an OS that's supposed to be easy to use. Any average user would assume that this would delete the contents of the disk, not erase it. This point is indefensible, though you've practically written a book trying to do so. They should have fixed this a long time ago. The release of OS X would have been yet another obvious time to fix this.
Anyway... Apple steals from Microsoft, Microsoft steals from Apple, Linux steals from anything. The list goes on. Don't get caught up in the "Apple innovator" lie too easily. Microsoft stopped copping ideas from Apple years ago. I think it's safe to say that the roles have reversed nicely now."
HERE IS MY REPLY TO HIM:
"Although it doesnt make perfect sense in 2002, it did back then. Why didnt Apple change it? Who knows and who cares...people understand it. Dont forget that in Mac OS X when a disk is dragged, the Trash Can changes to an Eject symbol indicating what will happen. Also, then you float the disk being dragged over the eject icon, an Eject tool-tip appears. Further indicating what will happen. Its actually quite intuitive with the improvements theyve made to the process. The same goes for when you drag a CD-R/RW towards the Trash Can. It changes to a Burn icon and a tool-tip appears up when you float the CD-R/RW being dragged over the burn icon. Again, very simple.
What really has me shaking my head is the comment of,
Don't get caught up in the "Apple innovator" lie too easily. Microsoft stopped copping ideas from Apple years ago. I think it's safe to say that the roles have reversed nicely now.
Im curious as to which incredible Microsoft innovations Apple has copied/borrowed? As far as I can tell there are none. Here are a few innovations that MS has definitely copied recently from Mac OS X and stick out in my mind the most right now...
The candy coated look
Recycle bin placement in lower right corner
Task Bar grouping (the Dock did this long before XP came out)
Digital Hub concept
The Task Bar grouping is my favorite because it is so poorly implemented. Ive opened up to six windows in My Computer and nothing happened. Things were bunched up and looked terrible. I had to open another application to get the grouping to work. Thankfully in OS X its much more refined and elegant...oh, and it it just works. And just for the record Microsoft did not invent the Task Bar...it was lifted from the NeXT interface of which OS X is a direct descendant."
AND HERE IS PAUL'S FINAL RESPONSE:
"Regarding: I'm not talking about 1985, I'm talking about now. It doesn't make sense. Still.
As for your innovations list, none but the Recycle Bin placement were copied from Apple, and that's hardly an important UI piece (and Microsoft got it right, too: File and shortcut deletion include the right prompts in XP, and you don't need the Recycle Bin to eject a disk. Obviously).
Microsoft announced its own digital hub strategy just days before Jobs did it for Apple in January 2001, but the MS eHome division and the digital media stuff had been in the works for years. Regardless, Microsoft went public with it first, despite the fact that many Apple fans, you included, seem to think otherwise. Look it up: CES 2001 vs. Macworld San Francisco 2001. Microsoft got there first. So I guess Apple copied Microsoft, eh?
XP doesn't have a candy-coated look at all. It's colors are rich and deep and designed to take advantage of high-res, high-color screens that are common today. OS X is a UI nightmare. Some apps have candy-like gel buttons (like iMovie), some (like QuickTime and iPhoto) are metallic. No consistency.
The Dock is the worst feature in Aqua, and I'm not the only one that thinks so. Taskbar grouping only makes sense when it's required, not just because you have several windows from the same application open. Windows XP handles task switching much more logically than OS X: When you hit ALT+TAB, you get the last app you accessed, not the "next' app in the Dock, regardless of when you accessed it (if ever), as OS X does. The Dock is an aberration."
If anyone cares to continue and educate Mr. Thurrott be my guest. He seems very out of touch with reality.
Jared
In the video, a third duplicate is opened as well, and then they're dragged to the Recycle Bin, ala the Mac OS. But Microsoft would never subvert this most idiotic part of the Mac user interface, of course.
I wrote to him and explained the reason that Macs use the drag-to-trash method and how it's very much improved in OS X with the Trash icon changing and etc.
THIS IS WHAT PAUL WROTE BACK TO ME:
"I'm familiar with the history of the Mac, but this detailed explanation of drive ejection just has me shaking my head. Using the same interface paradigm today, in an age of 120 GB hard drives and 10 GB portable media players, as we did in 1984 is lame. It's similar to the same reason why OS X/Aqua is not really a step up from any other OS, UI-wise: "Prettier" isn't innovative. It's the same old desktop paradigm all over again, and they even brought over some of the sillier problems from previous Mac OS versions.
And using the Trash to eject a disk *is* nonsensical, especially in an OS that's supposed to be easy to use. Any average user would assume that this would delete the contents of the disk, not erase it. This point is indefensible, though you've practically written a book trying to do so. They should have fixed this a long time ago. The release of OS X would have been yet another obvious time to fix this.
Anyway... Apple steals from Microsoft, Microsoft steals from Apple, Linux steals from anything. The list goes on. Don't get caught up in the "Apple innovator" lie too easily. Microsoft stopped copping ideas from Apple years ago. I think it's safe to say that the roles have reversed nicely now."
HERE IS MY REPLY TO HIM:
"Although it doesnt make perfect sense in 2002, it did back then. Why didnt Apple change it? Who knows and who cares...people understand it. Dont forget that in Mac OS X when a disk is dragged, the Trash Can changes to an Eject symbol indicating what will happen. Also, then you float the disk being dragged over the eject icon, an Eject tool-tip appears. Further indicating what will happen. Its actually quite intuitive with the improvements theyve made to the process. The same goes for when you drag a CD-R/RW towards the Trash Can. It changes to a Burn icon and a tool-tip appears up when you float the CD-R/RW being dragged over the burn icon. Again, very simple.
What really has me shaking my head is the comment of,
Don't get caught up in the "Apple innovator" lie too easily. Microsoft stopped copping ideas from Apple years ago. I think it's safe to say that the roles have reversed nicely now.
Im curious as to which incredible Microsoft innovations Apple has copied/borrowed? As far as I can tell there are none. Here are a few innovations that MS has definitely copied recently from Mac OS X and stick out in my mind the most right now...
The candy coated look
Recycle bin placement in lower right corner
Task Bar grouping (the Dock did this long before XP came out)
Digital Hub concept
The Task Bar grouping is my favorite because it is so poorly implemented. Ive opened up to six windows in My Computer and nothing happened. Things were bunched up and looked terrible. I had to open another application to get the grouping to work. Thankfully in OS X its much more refined and elegant...oh, and it it just works. And just for the record Microsoft did not invent the Task Bar...it was lifted from the NeXT interface of which OS X is a direct descendant."
AND HERE IS PAUL'S FINAL RESPONSE:
"Regarding: I'm not talking about 1985, I'm talking about now. It doesn't make sense. Still.
As for your innovations list, none but the Recycle Bin placement were copied from Apple, and that's hardly an important UI piece (and Microsoft got it right, too: File and shortcut deletion include the right prompts in XP, and you don't need the Recycle Bin to eject a disk. Obviously).
Microsoft announced its own digital hub strategy just days before Jobs did it for Apple in January 2001, but the MS eHome division and the digital media stuff had been in the works for years. Regardless, Microsoft went public with it first, despite the fact that many Apple fans, you included, seem to think otherwise. Look it up: CES 2001 vs. Macworld San Francisco 2001. Microsoft got there first. So I guess Apple copied Microsoft, eh?
XP doesn't have a candy-coated look at all. It's colors are rich and deep and designed to take advantage of high-res, high-color screens that are common today. OS X is a UI nightmare. Some apps have candy-like gel buttons (like iMovie), some (like QuickTime and iPhoto) are metallic. No consistency.
The Dock is the worst feature in Aqua, and I'm not the only one that thinks so. Taskbar grouping only makes sense when it's required, not just because you have several windows from the same application open. Windows XP handles task switching much more logically than OS X: When you hit ALT+TAB, you get the last app you accessed, not the "next' app in the Dock, regardless of when you accessed it (if ever), as OS X does. The Dock is an aberration."
If anyone cares to continue and educate Mr. Thurrott be my guest. He seems very out of touch with reality.
Jared
