PPC970 at WWDC

chevy

chevy

Marvelous Da Vinci
Staff member
Mod
MacBidouille confirms that we shall see the PPC970 based Macs at WWDC in June. They pretend that inventory will be built during May.

How many models ?
Will they directly replace the whole PowerMac line ?
May they also replace the high end iMacs ?


www.macbidouille.com (in French)
 
i've been holding off on getting a powermac because of this. i wonder how much they're going to cost?

any ideas if they're going to cost roughly the same, or are they going to be more/less expensive than the current g4's to make?

i'd assume they'll be expensive at first, but once supplies get up, hopefully the prices will drop to something decent.
 
Any idea about powerbook 15"s???

I'm selling my iBook to my sister and am looking for a powerbook... And as a lot around here I would prefer a screen a little bigger than the 12" and level 2 cache in there...
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee
i've been holding off on getting a powermac because of this. i wonder how much they're going to cost?

any ideas if they're going to cost roughly the same, or are they going to be more/less expensive than the current g4's to make?

i'd assume they'll be expensive at first, but once supplies get up, hopefully the prices will drop to something decent.
Click to expand...

They will be more expensive than current G4 offerings. They will be available for no more than the Xserve and highend PowerMac at first. They will not be available until 10.3 is released and probably sometime after.
 
Originally posted by aaike
Any idea about powerbook 15"s???

I'm selling my iBook to my sister and am looking for a powerbook... And as a lot around here I would prefer a screen a little bigger than the 12" and level 2 cache in there...
Click to expand...

the 970 is a hot hot processor. i don't know why people assume it is going to find its way into Apple notebooks anytime soon. i would guess a 970 PowerBook is more than a year away.
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee
i've been holding off on getting a powermac because of this.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! When i bought my G3 and the G4 came out 3 weeks later I swore I wasn't going to buy a computer untill the next gen came out... Little did I know that would be 4 years. I just about broke down a few months ago and bought a dual 1.25 I'm glad I didn't. I can now patiently wait for my next machine, which I will preorder as soon as humanly possible.

Oh happy day :D :p
 
I would wait 2-3 month before placing an order after the machine is launched. Let others do the debug !
 
I've never understood the "waiting for the next new thing" concept. I can understand putting off a purchase if the release of something new is imminent, but anything beyond that and you're going to indefinately postpone your purchase. At the very least something new comes out every 6 months or so. I purchased a dual 1 gig machine in November, a few months later I could've got a dual 1.25 GHz for the same price.

Am I pissed off? No, not at all, I expected this and I needed the machine now. That's even overstating it. I decided to migrate back from linux to MacOS now that I had a chance to play with MacOS X and see how well made it really is.

I guess in my opinion there are two gating factors to purchasing a new machine: 1) Can I justify buying it and 2) Do I have the cash.
 
The only problem with Apple releasing the 970 at WWDC is this: To fully utilize all that a 64-bit CPU (which the 970 is) has to offer, the OS and the applications have to be tweaked. So, although Apple could release a Power Mac with the IBM 970 in it at any time they see fit, until Panther comes out (Sept. is the best estimate I've seen so far), and the developers tweak their apps to take advantage of it, any speed gains will be negligible.

The problem is a 1.4ghz IBM 970 running 10.2 and the current crop of apps isn't going to be any faster than a 1.4ghz G4 running the same OS and apps. In fact, it might even be slightly slower because without software specifically tuned for it, the 970 has to process 32-bit info in a psuedo emulated state, sort of like how the first_PPC machines ran 68K code.

So, a Power Mac with the 970, although it could hit the market in June at WWDC, wouldn't really be ready until Panther ships, since it will need the new OS to fully take advantage of it's speed.

My guess: you'll probably see an announcement of the machines at WWDC, with a launch shortly thereafter, but with the initial bunch running 10.2, with a free upgrade coupon to 10.3 when it ships in August/Sept/Oct.
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
The only problem with Apple releasing the 970 at WWDC is this: To fully utilize all that a 64-bit CPU (which the 970 is) has to offer, the OS and the applications have to be tweaked. So, although Apple could release a Power Mac with the IBM 970 in it at any time they see fit, until Panther comes out (Sept. is the best estimate I've seen so far), and the developers tweak their apps to take advantage of it, any speed gains will be negligible.

The problem is a 1.4ghz IBM 970 running 10.2 and the current crop of apps isn't going to be any faster than a 1.4ghz G4 running the same OS and apps. In fact, it might even be slightly slower because without software specifically tuned for it, the 970 has to process 32-bit info in a psuedo emulated state, sort of like how the first_PPC machines ran 68K code.

So, a Power Mac with the 970, although it could hit the market in June at WWDC, wouldn't really be ready until Panther ships, since it will need the new OS to fully take advantage of it's speed.

My guess: you'll probably see an announcement of the machines at WWDC, with a launch shortly thereafter, but with the initial bunch running 10.2, with a free upgrade coupon to 10.3 when it ships in August/Sept/Oct.
Click to expand...
The PowerPC began life as the single-chip version of the POWER chipset. POWER was and is 64-bit. With the PPC 970, the PowerPC is returning to its roots. It won't have to emulate anything. By your logic, the G1 through G4 emulated 32-bit.

You clearly don't understand how the original PPC emulated 680x0 code. Apple wrote a 680x0 emulator which it added to the Toolbox ROM. Until the advent of the NewWorld Macs, the 680x0 was emulated in firmware. With the advent of the NewWorld Macs and ROM in RAM, Apple replaced the Toolbox ROM with a ROM file. NewWorld Macs emulate the 680x0 in software.
 
I have to side with MisterMe on this one... the 970 is a 64-bit chip, implementing all of the PPC spec, including the 32-bit part of the spec.

601, 603, 604, 750 (G3), 7400 (G4) all implemented the 32-bit portions of the PPC spec, and the G4 added a vector unit. There is no 'emulation' involved with running 32-bit code on a 64-bit PPC, and in fact, there ARE NO SPEED GAINS by using the 64-bit ops. However, if you write code to utilize the 64-bit registers for certain tight loops where you need to move massive amounts of data, or use LARGE numbers (greater than about 2-4 billion) that require integer precision, or some heavy-duty floating point precision... you will start to notice some gains using 64-bit ops.

That said, the 970 is still a monster compared to the 7400 series. Able to be executing over 100 instructions at any one time compared to the 7400s less than 20 (IIRC), there will be speed gains... even at the same clock speed.

Plus to respond kendall, the current information on the 970 suggests that at about 1.2-1.4Ghz, it uses LESS power than the G4 at the same clock speed. Doesn't that actually make it more preferable than the G4 at that range for laptop use? Better battery life and less heat because of less power is a good thing, yes? Although it is true that the projected consumption of the 1.8Ghz chips will be pretty high compared to the G4 at 1.2-1.4Ghz.
 
so, the next major upgrade of Mac OS X (Panther) is going to be a 64 bit Operating System? can that be easily done since now OSX is unix-based OS?
 
Presumably there will be 64bit native versions of BSD but I'd think it would still be quite a bit of work. I'd think some of the other guys will have more info.
 
mkwan - nobody is absolutely sure about macs being build with ppc-970 chips. it is expected that apple will switch chip makers after motorola disappointed them with development on the g4... and in rumor mills the ppc-970 is widely undisputed as the next chip. before anyone knows for sure apple will have to tell them!
 
Originally posted by substrate
I've never understood the "waiting for the next new thing" concept. I can understand putting off a purchase if the release of something new is imminent, but anything beyond that and you're going to indefinately postpone your purchase. At the very least something new comes out every 6 months or so. I purchased a dual 1 gig machine in November, a few months later I could've got a dual 1.25 GHz for the same price.

Am I pissed off? No, not at all, I expected this and I needed the machine now. That's even overstating it. I decided to migrate back from linux to MacOS now that I had a chance to play with MacOS X and see how well made it really is.

I guess in my opinion there are two gating factors to purchasing a new machine: 1) Can I justify buying it and 2) Do I have the cash.
Click to expand...

I wasn't mad at all that I didn't get the G4. I got the G3 at a great price. I normaly bought a new computer aprox every 2 years. That two years was up when I bought my current machine. My G3 has done everything that I've wanted it to do since I purchased it. If I had the need for more horsepower I would have purchased one a long time ago. Frankly, I don't feel that I should buy a new machine that I don't need. When I first started looking around again for a new machine, it was when I felt that the next gen was never going to be released. Soon after the PPC970 rumors started flying hot and heavy. From the first mention of it I decided that if it was comming out I would buy one as soon as it became available.
Sure, I was glad that I did get the revision B G3 but I haven't heard of too many hardware bugs after the revision A.

So all in all... I don't truthfully NEED a new machine. I've just wanted one. If my current Mac is meeting my needs I'm sure I'd be happy with just about any G4. I promised myself a long time ago that I'd skip the G4, and I'm sticking to it.
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
The only problem with Apple releasing the 970 at WWDC is this: To fully utilize all that a 64-bit CPU (which the 970 is) has to offer, the OS and the applications have to be tweaked. So, although Apple could release a Power Mac with the IBM 970 in it at any time they see fit, until Panther comes out (Sept. is the best estimate I've seen so far), and the developers tweak their apps to take advantage of it, any speed gains will be negligible.

The problem is a 1.4ghz IBM 970 running 10.2 and the current crop of apps isn't going to be any faster than a 1.4ghz G4 running the same OS and apps. In fact, it might even be slightly slower because without software specifically tuned for it, the 970 has to process 32-bit info in a psuedo emulated state, sort of like how the first_PPC machines ran 68K code.

So, a Power Mac with the 970, although it could hit the market in June at WWDC, wouldn't really be ready until Panther ships, since it will need the new OS to fully take advantage of it's speed.

My guess: you'll probably see an announcement of the machines at WWDC, with a launch shortly thereafter, but with the initial bunch running 10.2, with a free upgrade coupon to 10.3 when it ships in August/Sept/Oct.
Click to expand...

Since the majority of us aren't running on the latest and greatest hardware, we'll see a noticable improvement over our current machines. This is even if the OS and apps aren't 64 bit native yet.

If it boots, I'll buy it. I'll get a big speed boost when I get the machine and a another when I get 10.3. 2 for the price of one!
 
i have the 17" iMac right now (the 800mhz one).... so that's why i said before that i'm "waiting for this". i already have a very good machine IMO, one that can last me until later this year without feeling like i'm "behind" anything.

i'm waiting for something that really makes upgrading to a powermac worth it, and a new processor / OS is just what i need. :)
 
I agree with you wtmcgee... my 1 GHz will be enough for 2 years, or so...
 
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