The ugly side of the Tiger

Fred Flinstone

Fred Flinstone

XP Divorcee - Mac Virgin
I bought my first Mac last week after 15 years of marriage to the ugliest witch in the industry - Namely Microsoft The latest facelift won't do anything to improve her in any way! Simply put she's history.

Whereas I am now very much in love all over again - like I was dating a teen bombshell My 24" intel Duo Wonder Babe is way more than I would have expected in a lover - she too does show her bones at times and they're ugly to say the least!

Here I am faced with a wonderful array of DVD and Media editing tools, built in web cams , great new developments in Camera Raw support, bells and whistles on practically every inch of her body and just getting to the good stuff when "What the Donald Duck!!!" None of my hardware works!!!

Even Ubuntu does a better job of supporting legacy Camcorders and Digital Cameras! This is not only a let down - it's a disgrace! Let us try and think about supporting the camera before supporting the Camera Raw guys!!!! I have not that old Sony DSC-V1 cameras and a JVC GR-D290 Camcorder. USB2 cameras. Where were the mac developers when folks went out shopping? Down the Pub I should think! Neither Sony or JVC seem to support Driver updates for windows, let alone Mac.

So what's the solution here without having to replace my Cameras (I only bought the JVC 3 months ago) - everything is firewire on the Mac and though there are USB ports I have to ask myself what's the point of them when they do not recognize hardware like WIndows and Ubuntu do????

Would very much like to find a solution to these problems and take the tarnished look of my new babe, She's sexy and I plan to spend a lot of time with her in the coming weeks and months..... going back to the ex is definitely not an option!!!!!
 
When you say your hardware doesn't work, what have you tried? I have a Sony cybershot digital camera from about the same period (circa 2003), and when I plug it into the USB port, it gets automatically detected as a disk drive. Does this happen on your machine, or is it completely unrecognized?
 
i went through this problem.

it feels really good to shout about it, but at the end of the day, if it's not mac compatible, then it's just not mac compatible. there are solutions, but it'll be a pain. as long as the thing you're buying says mac compatible, then you'll have no trouble.

unfortunately, you seem to have found possibly some of the only pieces of hardware that don't work under os x. the other one is the Epson C46 printer which i stupidly bought thinking everything will work.

apple doesn't guarantee that everything ever made will work, but it does say that around 90% of hardware will work out of the box, without drivers.
 
Viro: It's about video cameras. They don't just "show up as drives".
 
325 word original post re-written ...

iMac 24" with Sony DSC-V1 camera and JVC GR-D290 Camcorder. Having compatibility problems.

-----

01. The Sony DSC-V1 is supplied with System 9.x compatible software. Use 'iPhoto' and / or 'Image Capture' (both applications are in the '/Applications/' folder). (Source)

02. The JVC GR-D290 Camcorder - may be simply Mac incompatible. That is not Apple's responsibility, it is yours. (Source)
 
fryke: The DSC line is for digital cameras, unless I'm mistaken as my digital camera is DSC-P9. I also Googled DSC-V1 before posting the original reply, and I'm pretty sure it's a digital camera.

Barhar: While I cannot fault the content of your post, the tone could be a little aggressive. Only a little. ;)
 
The big problem is with non-standard interfaces. You will see the same problem in Linux, althought there are more reversed engeneered drivers out there for Linux devices.

For instance consider the digital camera case, all that it takes to make a usable USB digital camera is implementing the USB Mass Storage Device protocol. If you can save $1.37 per camera by cutting corners and supplying a proprietary driver, that might make sense. I know that lots of cheepo digital cameras have lost sales to me for just that reason (I was looking for a camera for my 5 year old kid at the time).

What it really boils down to is that a Mac is compatible with those 90% of products (it used to be 40%) that are future proofed through standardization. You yourself said that
Neither Sony or JVC seem to support Driver updates for windows, let alone Mac.
Click to expand...
If you had models that used standard interfaces (this includes protocols) they you would be future proof and golden. [For instance I spent about $100 more on my Sony video camera to get the model that did not have a proprietary interface so it would run under Linux, later the move to a Mac was painless.]
 
The DSC-V1 is a Digital Camera - Has 9.x drivers but you cannot open them on the intel mac - even the memory stick shows up as a greyed out 'Unix Executable'. I read someplace these were 'Classic' drivers. I have never even touched a Mac before I bought this last week so the next bit is even worse..... the thread mentioned something like running classic through System Preferences - No such entry!

Once again - very easy to say it's my problem that the camcorder is not compatible and I should look at the box etc - As mentioned I never even touched a Mac til last week. Once again the responsibility should be more on Mas and Product developers to include support for both USB and Firewire. If yoou think the world is all firewire then you haven't left the Mac bubble in a very very long time. Even products that were firewire have switched to USB2. Point more or less re-stated.

The very painful thing about all this is I do actually own a Sharp DV Camcorder that was both USB and Firewire compatible but that now suts in Ireland. I bought the JVC for the simple reason that Windows SP2 updates as well as ultimately F***ing up my entire OS knocked out firewire connectivity to my cam. The so called Hotfix wasn't worth a toss and even though I have 3 different ways of connecting firewire devices on 2 different machines I could not get the PC to recognize the Camera.

So you're telling me I have a 1-legged beauty here - The Heather Mills Model? Thought this was the real deal!!!! Either way aside from all the confusion - neither one works on my Intel Duo and the camera (possibly even the video too) worked fine under Ubuntu
 
Viro said:
When you say your hardware doesn't work, what have you tried? I have a Sony cybershot digital camera from about the same period (circa 2003), and when I plug it into the USB port, it gets automatically detected as a disk drive. Does this happen on your machine, or is it completely unrecognized?
Click to expand...

I tried opening iPhoto and even Final Cut and other DVD type programs - none of them will recognize usb Camcorders. Therefore I would have to say it's completely unrecognized.

The Sony shows up as you would expect - as a flash drive however you cannot open the containing folder as it's greyed out 'Unix Executable'. Had a look at the install disk and like you say it supports 9.x but that's like chinese to me - I double-clicked the iconized files - couldn't open the apps. I did a get info and these seem to be Unix Executables too (but with Classic attribute). I tried to find out about classic but like I mentioned above I cannot find this as an option is system preferences.

The absence of Plug and Play support here could take a lot of patience on my part - as well as a lot more money by the looks of it. I can definitely see where if Linux get their act together and start turning out decent apps like adobe suite /Macromedia/Maya/Office etc that it will be the dominant platform in the years ahead. I switched to mac as I was sick of the great windows rip-off and the 7 million media players you know need to buy to play the one lousy 3 minute clip. It now seems that I have to buy the hardware to produce the 3 minute clip all over again as the OS don't support it. But I can playback said clips on 2 free media players like WMP and QT and DivX to add a 3rd

Much as I think Ubuntu is cool it still has a long way to go to catch up in terms of applications and in my case complete system meltdown if it didn't like the hardware (had a real problem with my GeForce Fx Go5600 graphics card on a Dell Inspiron 8600) - but aside for everything else its FREE. Looks like I will need to keep the laptop after all and maybe reinstall ubuntu if I can get it to like my graphics card but it seems ridiculous in this day in age that I still need 2 machines and a network connection in order to get images or footage off my cameras and onto the desired machine for editing
 
The problem is not that OS X doesn't support USB devices in general — it's just those particular USB devices. I've used USB-based cameras on Macs with no problem at all. Lurk hit the nail on the head.

Classic/OS 9 is only for PPC-based Macs, so it's no use going down that route.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. It wasn't unreasonable for you to think these devices would work.
 
In general, USB camcorders are not supported in OS X. USB camcorders have to stream data, because of the limitations of USB. Firewire makes for a much better transfer method, because you can get the full quality of the tapes.
 
Fred Flinstone said:
I tried opening iPhoto and even Final Cut and other DVD type programs - none of them will recognize usb Camcorders. Therefore I would have to say it's completely unrecognized.

The Sony shows up as you would expect - as a flash drive however you cannot open the containing folder as it's greyed out 'Unix Executable'. Had a look at the install disk and like you say it supports 9.x but that's like chinese to me - I double-clicked the iconized files - couldn't open the apps. I did a get info and these seem to be Unix Executables too (but with Classic attribute). I tried to find out about classic but like I mentioned above I cannot find this as an option is system preferences.

The absence of Plug and Play support here could take a lot of patience on my part - as well as a lot more money by the looks of it. I can definitely see where if Linux get their act together and start turning out decent apps like adobe suite /Macromedia/Maya/Office etc that it will be the dominant platform in the years ahead. I switched to mac as I was sick of the great windows rip-off and the 7 million media players you know need to buy to play the one lousy 3 minute clip. It now seems that I have to buy the hardware to produce the 3 minute clip all over again as the OS don't support it. But I can playback said clips on 2 free media players like WMP and QT and DivX to add a 3rd

Much as I think Ubuntu is cool it still has a long way to go to catch up in terms of applications and in my case complete system meltdown if it didn't like the hardware (had a real problem with my GeForce Fx Go5600 graphics card on a Dell Inspiron 8600) - but aside for everything else its FREE. Looks like I will need to keep the laptop after all and maybe reinstall ubuntu if I can get it to like my graphics card but it seems ridiculous in this day in age that I still need 2 machines and a network connection in order to get images or footage off my cameras and onto the desired machine for editing
Click to expand...

As for Ubuntu, I recommend using the Alternate CD Installation until the Live CD installation has matured enough...the Live CD was introduced as an installation option with this current release of Ubuntu so it's bound to fsck something up. The Alternate CD installation has been good to me so far (it's the same installer as the versions previous to Dapper). As for your card, have you tried using the binary driver from NVIDIA? I also believe that it's in the apt-get repositories for Ubuntu which can be accessed through Synaptic, the graphical apt-get package manager. If you look in there (and especially if you add the "universe" repositories), you'll see an endless amount of free applications that will do what you need and most of them open source.

Persinally, I think that Linux is quite ready for the desktop. I use it everyday on my work laptop (HP Compaq nx9010). I think the problem stems that people think that once they install Linux, they're left alone. This is not true. When I started using Slackware and didn't know a thing about it, I found a vibrant community on the Internet that had supplied all the necessary answers and steps just by performing a Google search. Now, I feel that I can help out others as well with using Linux. This is not to say that Linux is perfect for everyone, that's why we have the choice of either Windows, Mac OS, or Linux (and even further, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, PC-BSD, Desktop BSD, etc.)

Nonetheless, lurk pretty much nailed it as did eric2006 and Mikuro. The problem is not the Mac, but the third party manufacturers that decide to cut corners and focus on the platform that is the most prevalent, without considering sales for platforms like the Mac, or even Linux for that matter. Seems like those companies care more about the customer's money more than they care about the customer's loyalty. Again, thank God for choice. :)
 
Viro said:
fryke: The DSC line is for digital cameras, unless I'm mistaken as my digital camera is DSC-P9. I also Googled DSC-V1 before posting the original reply, and I'm pretty sure it's a digital camera.

Barhar: While I cannot fault the content of your post, the tone could be a little aggressive. Only a little. ;)
Click to expand...

I thought the V1 was video, but I guess I was wrong... About Barhar: He always speaks in a belittling tone and doesn't "get it" when you try to explain that to him. I just consider him a bot trying to digitally make sense of posts it answers to. ;)
 
Nixgeek- as for thge NVidia - It's a bit more complicated in that I needed to reconfigure the drivers to allow 3d compensation for programs like Maya - the 'n' driver simply doesn't do it. So with the 'nvidia' driver installed you then need to resetr a lot of option. The result of that particular instilation was 3 minutes in Maya - An Application Crash a complete fsck up - a restart and what I got resembled something like a dali painting and a keyboard that wanted to express itself g;loballly in any languagr but default. You drag a window and it was like it was melting - like genie in slo mo but the window didn't hold it's shape. In a few words a complete Crash. Result: the good old FDisk and chao to yet another 'nux installation (This btw was way cooler than SuSe or RedHat)

Back to the Video issues: All I really need for the Sony is any program that will recognize the Smart Card (in the camera) and load it like a flash disk - Dont want or even need any of the Bundled Apps. As for the JVC it has a DV iLink Connecion. Some of the Mac Apps seem to have functionality to connect this way but I take it I need a special kind of cable since the iMac doesn't seem to have a DV in connection point. Guess I need something like Dv to mini-firewire if such a cable exists. Even if If it does will this get my Camcorder recognized by my iMac????
 
Fred Flinstone said:
As for the JVC it has a DV iLink Connecion.
Click to expand...

iLink is just a brand name for FireWire, all you need is a 4pin to 6pin FireWire cable and you should be set. Your computer has a 6pin plug since that includes a line voltage that can drive things like small hard drives without an external wall wart.
 
How_RUDE!
barhar said:
325 word original post re-written ...

iMac 24" with Sony DSC-V1 camera and JVC GR-D290 Camcorder. Having compatibility problems.

-----

01. The Sony DSC-V1 is supplied with System 9.x compatible software. Use 'iPhoto' and / or 'Image Capture' (both applications are in the '/Applications/' folder). (Source)

02. The JVC GR-D290 Camcorder - may be simply Mac incompatible. That is not Apple's responsibility, it is yours. (Source)
Click to expand...
 
I just purchased a M5183 Power Mac G4 450MHz (AGP) Graphite. When I started changing the registration info I was locked out. I purchased OS X Snow Leopard and tried to install it locally but neither the DVD player nor the zip drive were available. I then tried to install over IP and that does not show up either. Although the hard drive was originally working before I was locked out it now sounds like a mild severe head crash so I pulled it to order a new one. I unplugged the system, pulled the CMOS battery and still nothing.

Once I put it back the system doesn't see it either. I did just throw away 25+ years of PCs to have MAC treat me like MicroSHAFT...did I?
 
usmcoth said:
I just purchased a M5183 Power Mac G4 450MHz (AGP) Graphite. When I started changing the registration info I was locked out. I purchased OS X Snow Leopard and tried to install it locally but neither the DVD player nor the zip drive were available. I then tried to install over IP and that does not show up either. Although the hard drive was originally working before I was locked out it now sounds like a mild severe head crash so I pulled it to order a new one. I unplugged the system, pulled the CMOS battery and still nothing.

Once I put it back the system doesn't see it either. I did just throw away 25+ years of PCs to have MAC treat me like MicroSHAFT...did I?
Click to expand...

I really wish for your sake that you had done a little research before buying the Mac that you did and the OS that you did. First, that Mac is VERY long in the tooth in terms of age and has been obsoleted by Apple a long time ago. Second, Snow Leopard will only run on Macs that have Intel processors, which first made their debut in 2006. This Mac uses a PowerPC G4 processor which is architecturally incompatible with the Intel architecture. The most you can run on that Mac is Tiger (10.4.x) and I recommend 1 GB RAM at the least. Even still, the performance isn't goign to be all that great for today's web requirements, especially with Flash-based stuff. An Intel-based Mac mini would have been a better investment and would be compatible with Snow Leopard. Definitely much faster than the Power Mac you've just purchased. It hurts me to say that this is probably a costly lesson for you. Hopefully the fact that you're on this forum now and are privy to those knowledgeable here will help you make a more informed decision in the future.

At this point, the best you can do is purchase a copy of Tiger. You can find some deals on Tiger at the following link:
http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-mac-os-x-tiger-prices.html
 
Thank you for the response. Actually I purchased both at great bargains so no big loss. I was trying to buy the G4 just to get the hang of the MAC world since I have been out of touch since apx. 1994. Your response was most helpful in guiding my next purchase. I would still like to get this one up and running and maybe my son can have a machine. Any options for upgrading this machines motherboard / processor? Any pointers on the missing hardware (DVD, HD, Zip, Ethernet) options on startup? I took one course on Unix back in 200? and realize that I need to get some basic MAC command sheets. All of my PCs are FX processors or higher but I am SO TIRED of MicroSHAFT and finding that AMD is not so hot with MAC. I have just started following MAC Laptop too and hope that will become a viable option really soon for my Toshiba.

Stephen
 
There are some processor upgrades for the Power Mac G4, but in all honesty they're not really worth it. Best thing would be to max out the RAM, add a larger hard drive, and put the highest possible OS on it which would be Tiger 10.4.11.

As for familiarity with OS X (specifically Tiger), check out this book:
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596009410/

You should also be able to upgrade the video card since it has a 2X AGP slot. Make sure that the video card you buy for the Mac says that it is Mac compatible. The Mac compatible ones have enough firmware space to hold both PC & Mac firmware...the PC-only ones don't. And while they can be flashed to support the Mac, it's not always the most reliable solution....you're at your own risk with that method.

More information on your Mac here:
http://lowendmac.com/ppc/sawtooth-power-mac-g4-agp.html

BTW On those PCs, you might also want to look at tinkering around with Linux if you're tired of Windows. You can give Ubuntu or Linux Mint a try. Both of those are geared to people new to Linux and are pretty easy to use, and you can even set them up as dual-boot with Windows or even installed from within Windows (using Wubi for Ubuntu which comes in the installation ISO).

http://www.ubuntu.com
http://www.linuxmint.com
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top