What do you think of this scenario...

[BlingBling 3k12]

Here's a scenerio for you guys... it's about Government...

An Independent named Joe Bob (remember, this is a story) wins his state election for Governor. He serves 2 terms and goes for a seat in the House of Representatives or Senate and wins. So far, the U.S. Constitution allows this. Now, Joe Bob wants to run for President on an Independent party. This party has such great views, he wins the popular vote in his state and 9 others!

He cannot win the Electoral College...

Our two-party system only allows either a Democrat or Republican to win an Electoral College vote.

Therefore, the person does not recieve the votes to his state based on the Electoral College System.

What do you think should happen? Based on this scenario, should legislation be added so that Independents can win Presidential Elections or should it stay the same so only one of the two major parties wins.

 

[chemistry_geek]

While I am no expert in history or government, I think that the government will change (rid itself of the Electoral College) when the population it governs has the diversity necessary to cause that change in the government. Until this happens, the Electoral College will remain the norm. The Founding Fathers of our government set in place many rules to protect itself and the population it governs. Change will occcur when the population demands it. I think that for the most part in today's society, you can identify with being either a Democrat or a Republican. It's just the way our society (high schools, colleges, jobs, careers, businesses, etc...) is set up. You can pretty much fit into one or the other. And if you think that a new influx of immigrants may change the norm, it won't happen, they are educated in the ways of the norm, and associate with one political party or another.

An independent will never (in our life time) win the Whitehouse. And as sad as it may be, a minority will likely not win the Whitehouse in our life time either. Our American society isn't ready for this yet. Too much of the population BELIEVES that white middle class America is better educated (etc, etc, etc...), and they want someone in the Whitehouse who is an effective leader and knows what HE (again, the minority issue) is doing. While I think that any American could be an effective leader, I don't think we're going to see independents and minorities occupying the Whitehouse anytime soon.

America and mankind in general, has a long, long way to go.

 

[nkuvu]

The whole government thing should be scrapped and re-worked from the ground up.

 

[wdw_]

I think a legislation be added so that Joe Bob can rock the vote!

JOE BOB RULES!!!

 

[dricci]

Steve Jobs for President.

 

[wdw_]

 

[scruffy]

Are you serious? In the constitution it says only Democrats or Republicans can win electoral college votes? Why on Earth do they put independents and third party candidates on the polls then, if the colleges are forbidden to respect them?

 

[adambyte]

At the time the constitution was written, the two parties that existed were the "whigs" and the "Democratic-Republicans" (The "whigs" being more right wing, and the "Demo-Reps" being more left wing).... So what is the deal with this "Only a party can win" stuff... anybody care to cite the Constitution?...

 

[RacerX]

by chemistry_geek
And as sad as it may be, a minority will likely not win the Whitehouse in our life time either.

I don't think it is as far off as you seem to think. Ford was originally Secretary of State, he became Vice President when Agnew resigned, and then President when Nixon resigned. Our last two Secretary of States, Albright and Powell, were/are in the position that Ford was. Anything is possible, no matter how bleak you try to characterize it.

As for the Electoral College, you can not even get on the ballot of a State in a Presidential election unless you or your party as made arrangements for representatives to vote in the Electoral College elections. Remember, even though the name on the ballot is that of the candidate, you are voting for their Electoral College representatives. No representatives, no name on the ballot.

 

[ScottW]

Okay...

I believe that the electorial college is suppose to VOTE for who WON the popular vote. Meaning, if Joe Bob, the indepentent wins, he should, in theory get all electroial votes for the state. Obviously, the electorial's could vote for someone else and go against this, and this has happened before in American History, however people like that should be shot.

So, in theory, YES, an independent could win the whitehouse under the current system. However, the independent would have to win the BIG states like California, etc... just as the Republicans & Demostupes do.

The hardest part for an independent, is not getting the votes, but getting put on the ballots. This requires x number of signatures and meeting huge deadlines.

The current system of voting and elections in the United States has been and will always remain a respectable system of election. I have no problems with the electorial system, nor do I have problems with the supreme court was able to 'finalize' the last election. Our government, as whacked out as it may seem sometimes, is actually a pretty cool system... and it stops, Republicans and Demodupes alike from having too much control. It also gives states fair representation, which is what the whole electorial system is about.

If this government ever fails, it will be because of the people demanding something different. The future of the United States is bleak. If suicide bombings started in this country, or a nuclear bomb took out Washington DC or any other major metro area, this whole country will come to a hault and we might as well pack our bags and move somewhere else. But, when and if it ever happens... start counting the days... the world as we know it, will be ending soon.

Admin

 

[RacerX]

Admin,

I truly feel sorry for you. The future is the future, the only thing that is bleak seems to be your outlook (and your prejudice against those who don't agree with your beliefs as demostrated by your use of Demodupes, which was really not called for).

The government can survive as long as the people survive... By the People, For the People.

But hey, that is just a Demodupe talking.

And back to the subject, in 1860 there were 4 major parties, all of which won at least some Electoral College votes, and in 1968 there were 3 major candidates, all of whom won at least some Electoral College votes.

Also, the 1860 election was the first time the Republicans won the White House as I recall.

 

[edX]

well, i still love you admin even if you don't know much about politics. and i will agree with coach, that shot at democrats was way below the belt. if you were anyone else, i would probably have reported your post as offensive. But since you are the authority to report to, that doesn't really help now does it. (and i have never reported anyone as offenisve )

the fact is that different states organize their electorates differently. Some states are winner take all and others are divided. I remeber this being important at one point in the last selection (notice i didn't call it an election) because Calif. is a winner take all state.

and there still is smething screwed up about a system that lets someone win the popular vote and lose the election. I don't care which way it goes or which party wins like that, it seems wrong.

what i am not so sure of is that BB's original scenario has any validity. meaning i don't think that is how it works. There have been states go to third parties before. In fact, didn't Nader carry a state or two this last selection?

 

[chemistry_geek]

Originally posted by RacerX:
I don't think it is as far off as you seem to think. Ford was originally Secretary of State, he became Vice President when Agnew resigned, and then President when Nixon resigned. Our last two Secretary of States, Albright and Powell, were/are in the position that Ford was. Anything is possible, no matter how bleak you try to characterize it.

Ford was NEVER elected as President of the United States, he obtained the position through resignation and the rules set forth for digging deeper in the hierarchy of the government to ensure continuity of government. My point is, getting into the Whitehouse by default is different than being elected to it. I think it's great that there are minorities in the cabinet of the Bush Administration. I think that the best people for the job, regardless of their ethnic background, should get the job. I just don't think that average America will VOTE IN (ELECT) a minority to the Whitehouse in our lifetime. According to the last census bureau tally, 25% of Americans have a college education. That means 75% MAY have a high school education. Of that 75% without a college education, do you think they care that much about government and demographics? They're going to vote for the person with flare, style, and charisma, not substance. I think our society is moving in the right direction, but it is slow. At least Ross Perot (INDEPENDENT) stirred up the political parties enough to affect a little change from politics as usual. He got the American public and Congress thinking a little more about what should be done right.

Incidentally, I think Colin Powell would make an excellent President. He has very good leadership skills and he is a thinker. I think he doesn't want the job, or at least get in the mud slinging political fight to get the job.

 

[BlingBling 3k12]

Wow... what a great discussion so far!

Anyways, when the Constitution was set up, they didn't even want us to vote because we were too stupid to know what we wanted. That's why they put in the Electoral College system.

Above info was given to me by my Civics teacher... I'm in school so I just asked her...

Anything else??

 

[RacerX]

Quick question, BlingBling... the original scenario, that didn't come from your civics teacher, did it?

Our Founding Fathers distrusted majority rule because majorities often infringe on the rights of minorities. We have the House, which has representatives based on the population of each State (bigger States have more votes and can pass things that favor them). Then we have the Senate, every State, independent of size has two representatives (the smallest of States is on equal footing with the biggest). And then there is the President, elected by the Electoral College which has a number of possible votes equal to that of the representatives of both the House and the Senate (again, small States which would have little say in a popular election now have a stronger voice).

I am very unhappy with our current President, and I feel he is completely unqualified for the job (and I did vote for his father who was very qualified back in 1988). Even given that, and the way he was given office, I still believe that the system is doing what it was designed to do.

chemistry_geek-

I never said that Ford was elected (I took great pains to point out the course of events that lead to his Presidency), but he became President none the less. If we lived is a state that would not allow minorities or women to occupy the White House, then the position of Secretary of State would never have had either. When Thatcher came to power in 1979, I don't remember hearing anyone over here being upset (because of her gender, of course) because she occupied such a high position. Few females and minorities have made it to a position in our country from which they have had a good shot at the White House. Both Albright and Powell have occupied such positions, so I don't think your characterization of the situation with the American electorate is accurate.

 

[satanicpoptart]

this is completly off subject but, in the recounts in florida all gore did come out as winner after bush had been sworn in.

even with bush winning the electoral college, more people wanted gore as president. although bush has done an OK job he is not a lagitamit president.

 

[AdmiralAK]

Originally posted by satanicpoptart
this is completly off subject but, in the recounts in florida all gore did come out as winner after bush had been sworn in.

even with bush winning the electoral college, more people wanted gore as president. although bush has done an OK job he is not a lagitamit president.

There is no such thing as an illegitimate president.
It doesnt matter that gore came out the "victor", Those ballots were handled so many times that invalid ballots became valid.

 

[satanicpoptart]

nothing changes that bush is not the peoples president. he dint win LAgitametly so he is ILagitamet. but hey hes done an ok job so who the hell cares, right? at least thats what most of the american are like. what was it like 20 percent voted and that was alot? italy has like a low vote percentage of 90 percent. damn my contry and its apathy.