Which Windows features?

uoba

Re: member
Okay, don't flame.

I used Macs for 98% of my professional life over the last 7 years. We have 3 macs in the studio, and a dual pentium III 600Mhz, stuck in the corner used basically for testing that client's sites work on Windows (which is pretty much a necessity :rolleyes: )

Anyway, after spending about 1 hour on Windows (the longest time for about 3 years), I wasn't that upset with it. So...

This leads me to ask you all to do a bit of soul searching and to put those Mac Evangelist views aside for one moment, and inform us of those things that OSX can 'take inspiration' from Windows?

Personally, even though it pains me to say it, Windows UI is faster than OSX, Applications and windows open a lot faster, I want this (yeah I know Jaguar is coming, but is it really that fast?)

Anyway, anything else? (Ooh, I also like that new XP thing whereby a user can logout but their apps are left open).

Come on, be truthful.
 

Koelling

I Think Different
As much as I hate Windows it might be fun to hear what people think they have going for them.

I for one think the UI is worse because (my experience only) it doesn't redraw the whole window at once. they may be able to get a glimpse of the title faster than us but it creates a broken look. Aqua looks more refined and professional.

Really, the only thing that I envy is their user base which brings out programs for them first. I think Apple has the right idea to legitimately get users and not strong arm people into using their software. We will get there, if slowly.
 

adambyte

Registered
Originally posted by uoba
(Ooh, I also like that new XP thing whereby a user can logout but their apps are left open).

I second that... I would LOVE this feature on Mac OS X... nothing more annoying than having all your apps quit themselves and close shop when another user must log in, just for a quick session.

Another thing I miss... Windows lets you flip your two button mouse to "lefty" mode, so the secondary click is always on the outside... whcih makes sense. I'm slightly ambidextrous. I would like this feature, too. I want my mouse on the left.

That's it for me. Don't think I'm missing much.
 

culo77

Registered
the only thing i can think of is........ummmmm........

i guess the fact that Programs come out first, a broader range of apps, and a broader range of PIRATED apps.

another thing i would like is MORE STORES CARRYING APPLE PRODUCTS. it suck that i have to travel 1 hour in traffic to get to compusa and 1 1/2 hours the the Apple store and i live in chicago??????? but if i need something for my HP I have a 3 bestbuy's and 2 circuit city's within 5 minutes from me.

SORRY IF I AM OF THE SUBJECT
 

Nafae

Registered
I converted to a mac earlier this year, besides the obvious speed of windows, I miss alt-tabbing between two programs or documents. I can switch to one (say, photoshop) edit something, then switch back to IE to keep reading, say, a tutorial. Then I can just switchback with a quick keystroke!

Hmm.. that's all I can think of at the moment.
 

toast

Gone !
Nafae, try Command-Tab. You'll get a surprise ;).

I agree 1000% with uoba. General redraw is really faster. We tested this with a 500MHz PC under XP and my G3/500 OSX.1.5 iMac: 25 Photoshop files, each about 5Mb size.

XP just beats X completely. try if you don't believe it, but I'm sure you do.

The 'background apps when logout' function I did also find really cool.
 

gibbs

Registered
I'd like to hear a response from people who use the latest build of jaguar....I'm so surprised that its not discussed more often.

How is jag's speed doing guys?
 

xaqintosh

Master of Reality
I converted to a mac earlier this year, besides the obvious speed of windows, I miss alt-tabbing between two programs or documents. I can switch to one (say, photoshop) edit something, then switch back to IE to keep reading, say, a tutorial. Then I can just switchback with a quick keystroke!

Hmm.. that's all I can think of at the moment.

go to versiontracker and download liteswitch, it worx great.
 

Chibi15

Official ai tenshi
Well - it’s hard to measure because many applications misbehave - like classic or system preferences on my Mac - but overall i think that application launch time is a little bit faster for fast-launching apps and a big improve for apps that launches rather slowly under 10.1 (like BBEdit) - the UI feels more responsive (thanks to Quartz Extreme) - you now actually can put a Quicktime Movie to the dock in slow-motion without problems - and the dock no longer slows down to a crawl when you minimize a window and the whole dock have to resize (because it’s to large) - the UI feels definetly more responsive - Applications in general feels a bit more faster - it’s not that much faster but i am using an early build and work on jaguar won’t be finnished until mid of july
 

toast

Gone !
Because the question is "Which features ?", I'll add this one: I have 40% DivX AVI files that go wrong on my Mac (using DivXDoctor: audio truncated, too garbled for Quicktime, eof error…), while all PC users I have around me just go on with zero problems on these. I had already posted to shout against the very, very poor integration of AVI by MacOS.

So that's another feature, I hope Steve'll read this soon :)
 

didde

Registered
I just recently switched from Mac OS X to Win XP. I still have my TiBook at home and with me, wherever I go though.

Seriously guys. If you're doing the kind of work I am there is no way Mac can compare to Win XP / 2000. I'm sorry to have to say it but now I have been using XP for three months and for every day I regret not changing sooner.

First if all, the uptime on XP is quite a lot better for me than X (that might just appy to me though). And then, if you have to reboot the machine starts up in less than 30 seconds. With OS X on a dual GhZ G4 that took me at least 2 minutes depending on the network.

I work a lot using the network. Share files and projects that are on servers and so on. With X IF the Finder hangs during a network process you're basically screwed. Force-quit it and hope to god you don't have to reboot. On XP this works flawlessly.

Well, I guess what I wanted to say is that XP works ALOT better for me at work. I am not saying that it would for all of you. But the Mac community has this tendancy to become quite fanatical. What ever Apple throws out at us HAS TO BE good since it's Apple who has done it, right? I think we would be better off if we did not just swallow everything Apple produces... Maybe we should question them? How come we have to wait until 10.2 to get a decently fast OS? Come on, that is unacceptable...
 

uoba

Re: member
I am a Mac fanatic, but I have no problem accepting the competitions strong-points (even to the point of actually coping with using them;) )

I will never swap over to Windows (or Linux for that matter), because the overall workflow of Mac OS has always been more pleasant, creative and intuitive. (Though I'm going to have to invest in a PC laptop I'm afraid).

I think some of the problems you highlight Diddle are more specific to the fact that Windows dominates the computer world (you need to network with other Windows machines right, bound to be easier in XP;) )... However, your right about the startup speeds (though my workstation on OSX only gets rebooted/started up about 2-3 times a week (even though GoLive, Illustrator, and Photoshop are always open.)

Also, you are right, the Apple community are often blinded by their faith (me included:D )... but I'm glad to see the posts we have so far.

So, to sum up so far, we want:

1. That cool logout feature, whereby apps stay open.
2. Comparible UI speed (Plleaaazzzzeeee)!
3. Better media integration (DivX, AVI etc)
4. Mouse left-hand preferences (though isn't this down to the 3rd party, you can use that ol' archaic one-button thing in both hands right?!) Which leads me onto...
5. A 2-button mouse!!!!:p (with a scroll-wheel.)
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
So, to sum things up and get rid of all the off-topic bashing...

1) Switch user (with apps staying open)
2) Alt-Tab, ah, no, we got that covered with Apple-Tab
3) Left-hand preferences for the mouse (pu-leese?! there's ONE button on a Mac mouse, just take it into the OTHER hand)

So, three features of Windows we want in Mac OS X, two of those being already kinda integrated? Okay, so let's HAVE that switching user feature.

(All other stuff like DivX integration aren't really features of Windows, they're just compatibility issues. UI speed is also not a 'feature'.)

Get on track and keep those _features_ you want from Windows rolling in.
 

toast

Gone !
I disagree: media integration is a feature. Quicktime sticks so close to the OS that reading or not reading AVIs really is part of OSX. I fond many software telling in their readmes: "This program won't avoid the following erros (………) because it's bug of Quicktime".

Debugging Quicktime so AVI can run smoothly is a feature to me.

By the way, I don't think we'll have either the PC mouse or the 'apps stay behind when changing user' thing before next century.
 

MacPain

Army IT-Guy
Originally posted by toast
I disagree: media integration is a feature. Quicktime sticks so close to the OS that reading or not reading AVIs really is part of OSX. I fond many software telling in their readmes: "This program won't avoid the following erros (………) because it's bug of Quicktime".

actually the truncated sound issue ain't a bug in quicktime. AVI's were never meant to have mp3 soundtracks, to accomplish this the format was hacked so AVI-movies were able to include mp3 sound. i suggest you try out some normal (non-divx) AVI's, i'm sure they'll run fine.

for your divx AVI needs there's still videoLAN, which plays any divx movies just fine (at leat the ones i tested, and there weren't just a few. :) ).
 

ccuilla

Software Developer
Originally posted by uoba

1. That cool logout feature, whereby apps stay open.

This would be VERY easy to do in OS X. I suspect it will come if really desired by a lot of people. Probably a low priority right now.


2. Comparible UI speed (Plleaaazzzzeeee)!

Cleary they are working this issue. Quartz Extreme is the first step. More will likely come. Two years from now we'll probably all have graphics cards/video chips capable of doing QE.


3. Better media integration (DivX, AVI etc)

Probably coming given Apple's stated focus on the "digital hub".


4. Mouse left-hand preferences (though isn't this down to the 3rd party, you can use that ol' archaic one-button thing in both hands right?!) Which leads me onto...

5. A 2-button mouse!!!!:p (with a scroll-wheel.)

These are coming.

So far nothing insurmountable.

I'd like a lot of little UI tweaks. Better inter-platforme integration (SMB browsing, file format issues, etc.) Overall though, X is in very good shape. Most of what we need are more apps, and more users. Apple will get there I think. Right now there are something like 2 million X users. Steve says the goal is 5 million by the end of the year. They might just get there.

This will take some time. I hope by this time next year )S 9 is REALLY dead. That will have been a 2 year transition. Not too bad.
 

popey.marin

Registered
Remember Mac OS X is a quite young OS compared to Win XP :
Win XP is based on win NT5 (= 2000), that is itself based on NT4 (service pack 6 ...).
Remember what NT4 was in its early hours ...
Let Mac OS X get older, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. It is really a great base.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Windows NT isn't older than Mac OS X, as OS X is based on Rhapsody, which was based on OpenStep, which was based on NeXT-Step. Early 90s it is. Mac OS X is 12 years old, I'd say.

The one feature of Windows I really crave for sometimes, is the ability to really maximise windows, so they span from edge to edge. I also often *hate* that Windows users do this all the time, but for browsing and other stuff, I'd like it.
 

uoba

Re: member
Spot on fryke, that's a good one!

(I do use IE on Windows that way, and I like it a lot).

(just a quick question for those using XP, does the above feature work as well? Since, XP's UI is bloated somewhat (which is nice on high resolution screens, but I checked out a laptop in a store today and the res wasn't great, making XP look like Learn the ABC's of Computing:p On Windows 2000 and previous, the UI was pretty non-descript, and less obtrusive.)
 
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