A Dock Critique (screenshots)

Pascal

Official visitor
I know that the launch bar in Windows was copied from NeXT's launcher, but still : I feel that your proposal would render the Dock too much Windows like.

This beeing said, I agree with the spirit of what you wrote.
 

jcontonio

Registered
definitely send that link to Apple. I totaly agree with you. Although, I do like the enlarge when you mouseover an app...maybe they could change it to a color instead of a magnify thing. Send that link to Apple.
 

mchladek

Registered
This is what I have in my Dock: Desktop, PPP connect, Mail, Omniweb, IE, Sherlock, Clock, Sys Prefs, QT, Music Player, Fireworks, Dreamweaver, Appleworks, SETI@Home, and Trash. That's 15 icons, not to mention I'll have Classic, Terminal, or a number of other apps open. With that said I think the Dock is excellent for even the advanced users for an application launcher. To me it doesn't really matter if I know which apps are just open or open and saved in the Dock. Like you said it is an awesome switcher, a lot better than the old Switcher. I do agree with you about the minimizing of windows and how if you have several you have to do a lot of rearranging to get to the one you want. However, most programs have a Window menu in the menubar which cures that problem. When it comes to folders I don't really store them on the Dock, but I imagine that could get annoying not knowing what the name of a folder is in a glance. The whole muscle memory thing is a bunch of BS. The icons don't move a whole lot unless you have the size all the way on the smallest and magnification all the way on the highest. If Apple doesn't change the Dock a single bit from the Beta to the Final, I'll be very happy with the way it is.
 

eVo

Registered
I feel that your proposal would render the Dock too much Windows like.
Yes, my idea is somewhat Windoze-like, but so what? Apple has lost innumerable GUI ideas to Microsoft, I doubt there would be much harm in taking a simple idea such as where the icons for windows and apps go on the Dock/taskbar. Besides, it will only make cross-platform use much easier.

definitely send that link to Apple. I totaly agree with you. Although, I do like the enlarge when you mouseover an app...maybe they could change it to a color instead of a magnify thing. Send that link to Apple.
Yes, I sent the link to Apple's OS X Feedback page, and I'd invite others to do so as well if they agree with me. The more voices they hear, the better it will be.

As for the mouseover enlarging of icons, there is no reason to take it away on my ideal Dock. I think it should stay, I like it a lot, even though I personally don't use it.

I do agree with you about the minimizing of windows and how if you have several you have to do a lot of rearranging to get to the one you want. However, most programs have a Window menu in the menubar which cures that problem.
Sort of... only some apps have a window menu, and that window menu only lists windows for that app. Besides, I think having a 1 click thumbnail available all the time in every app on the Dock is much easier than a pull down text-only window. Just my preference, and I'm sure others will agree.

The whole muscle memory thing is a bunch of BS. The icons don't move a whole lot unless you have the size all the way on the smallest and magnification all the way on the highest.
Just imagine if all the menus in every menu bar for every app was centered. Depending on the number of menus for each app, the common File and Edit menus would always be switching around, just like the Trash does on the Dock every time a new icon appears on it. Your hand would not instinctively know where to go if you needed to access either of those menus. This is bad GUI behavior, especially if you do something like drag things to the Trash on a regular basis. And the Date & Time I think should never resize or move at all. That's why I think it should be put back on the Menu Bar.
 

bolindilly

John Galt Member
i was sitting here, reading the whole thread. and it just comes down to one thing... a difference of opinion.

for me, the only addition to the dock would be a mouseover for long enough lauches the folder (for cragging files to subfolders like on OS 9). for eVo, he should just go buy a copy of Windows ME, and use that. mchladek has everything he needs. pascal is a real mac user.

everyone has a different need for the dock; everyone uses it for different things. some for quick access storage, some for current links, and some for all around navigation. the only way to solve this is for us all to become kernel and interface porgrammers, hack into the code, and change it to our liking (a step closer to linux)... THE BOTTOM LINE: apple can't keep everyone happy, and everyone will always have different needs.

the only thing i need now is my function keys back, and a couple things in the top menu:
the ability to launch apps instead of just folders from the "Go To Folder," and the ability to lauch files from the favorites menu, not just reveal them in the finder...

i'm not trying to be mean to people, it's just the truth: everyone is different...


BoLinDilly
 

MacFreak

Chic Not Geek
Yeah, That why MacOS X is a open source. Then you can submit to Apple. They will decide either to us or not. If they like it and will release next version of MacOS X.
 

tiedeman

Registered

I agree and strongly disagree with your analysis:

The clock and trash *should* be stationary,but the clock more so than the trash, in my opinion. Case in point: how often do you glance at the time versus how often do you trash something? I believe something should only *necessarily* be stationary based on the degree of usage.

The Dock is an excellent switcher AND launcher. If Apple removes the launching feature based on your comments, I will bludgeon you with my Mac 512K mouse. Agreed, you can't tell whether an app is simply launched or launched AND in the Dock... but who bloody cares? Honestly.

Personally, I would like to see the Dock propagate from the left side of the screen instead of centering, similar to your design. It wouldn't make sense for it to selfishly detain the entire bottom of the screen for its own use, however, as you've suggested. What if you have the Dock icons set to a large value. You'd lose a quarter of screen real estate for maybe only a couple Dock Icons. As it stands, you lose only that which lies within Dockspace. Simply put: Apple's current Dock allows more screen space than your idea would.

Come to think of it... I wouldn't be adverse to trying out a version of the Dock that minimizes like the control strip... I love that little thing and it tucks away neatly when you don't need it; not like the popup Dock. That's too crazy.

I'm not a GUI expert. I just know how I work.
 

iconara

Registered
so far my only critique is that the switcher still is flawed. the switcher in OS9 was useless. the one in OSX works, but no more. the problem is that the order of tthe apps always is the same. this is stupid.

working, I have about ten apps open at any time, but I don't work in all of them at the same time - no, I work with two or three. every time I want to switch I have to go through the whole list, since the apps are ordered in some way (is it alphabetically or order of lanch? or, can't remember now).

they should be more effectively ordered: last used app first. this is how the wonderful tool LiteSwitch does for OS9 (and switcher in Windows?). This means that I can work in BBEdit, hit cmd-tab and I'm in explorer. cmd-tab, and I'm in BBEdit. no need to go through the whole list...

further, I agree that the dock is illogic. It wants to be too many things at the same time.

theo
 

Kiyoakisama

Registered
I think Mac OS X is designed for the guy who uses IE, OE, and some other program like Word......only has one browser window to! Lets face it. It looks like an OS that would go with an iMac right? What is the iMac for? COnsumers.....its a SUPER POWERFUL consumer interface OS. Picture Linux with HUGE BUTTONS and BIG WORDS for 5 year olds.....

Now....I LOVE THE DOCK! I don;t use as much stuff as you guys so that may be why!
 

eVo

Registered
Yes, OS X is geared heavily toward the consumer and very little toward the professional. I don't really think I need to tell why.

I emailed Steve Jobs asking him to check out my Dock Critique (whose email address I will provide if you ask me personally), and here was his brief response:

Thanks for your input. We just disagree on some of these points.

All the best,
Steve
So it appears my ideal dock will never see the light of day. :(
That is sad, very sad, and it makes me wonder if Apple will even change the Dock at all to make it better.
 

Oneota

Registered
Here's my suggestion, which I've sent to Apple (and which I encourage you all to do, as well -- if enough people send it, maybe Apple will listen!) :

The Dock is trying to do too much. It should just be for applications, with windows and documents being either handled by some other means, or integrated with the application section (see below). Here's my suggestion for a Dock overhaul:

1) The application menu associated with a running app in the dock should be a pop-up menu, triggered either by a click-hold, or a right-/control-click, or, ideally, both.

2) Any windows that an app has open should be listed above the Application menu (not in a separate menu, just physically above it, with a divider between the two).

3) Minimizing a window should send its window flying *to the application's icon in the dock*, where it will be available by the means mentioned in #1. Incidentally, double-clicking a window should not also minimize the window, it should trigger the Windowshade effect; some of us like to be able to just quickly glance behind a window, and there's currently no way to do this.

4) If an application has minimized windows, its icon should be modified somehow to reflect that -- either by making its icon darker/lighter, or by affixing a little window icon to the corner of its icon, or some other means.

I firmly believe that the dock has potential; it's just stretching itself too thin. If it just handles applications, it will be a very useful tool. But it cannot handle Applications, windows, and aliases/documents in its current form (personally, I don't think it should even try to handle documents, and aliases are best left to the Apple Menu - it's hierarchal).
 
Top